Small Town Murder - #199 - Hello, I'm My Sister... in Anniston, Alabama

Episode Date: November 26, 2020

This week, in Anniston, Alabama, for the first time, we are doing a second case from a town! Why? Because the case is just that wild. So wild, that it involves mysterious illnesses, suddenly appearing twin sisters, and an armless best friend. A twisted mystery that seems solved, only to end up being even more of a mystery, before a very final ending! Absolutely nuts! Along the way, we find out Anniston is still pretty awful, that when everyone gets the same illness, it might not be THAT mysterious, and that some people will believe absolutely anything! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Anniston, Alabama, we look at one of the most twisted, strange tales we've ever told involving mysterious illnesses, suddenly appearing twin sisters, and an absolutely

unbelievable explanation to it all. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you folks so much for joining us once again. If it's your first time, you have chosen wisely not only to listen to the show, but to listen to this week's episode of the show. Because I have to tell you, this is one that I've had for a couple years just sitting there waiting to tell. And it's Anniston, Alabama. We were there once before, so you're not going to have to hear stats this time because we did that once before. But there's other stuff to talk about. Don't worry. That's how crazy this murder is, is that we are going back to a town we've done before, which we've never done before. That's how nuts it is.

First of all, thank you, everybody, for your reviews this week. They help a lot. Apple podcasts. If you haven't done it yet, please give us five stars on that purple icon right we don't know why it helps but it does so thank you head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder listen to crime and sports if you haven't this week it was charles barkley so i know you've heard of him and it was a wild tale a good a good first episode to get the kind of the rhythm of the show it's a good time check that out also listen to listen to PSA. I hate this movie this week where we talk about bad romantic comedies.

Also, if you would like to be a contributor to the show. Yeah, of course. If you want to be a producer, you can do that very easily. And you get lots of stuff for that as well. Bonus stuff. And there's tons of bonus stuff up there. Last bonus episode for Small Town Murder was that we talked about Chris Watts and that documentary, that whole mess. This time, we are going to talk about crazy murders that happened on Thanksgiving.

Oh! Thanksgiving family insanity we're going to talk about. Okay. I can see it happening. Oh, it happens so much. You have no idea. I've seen a YouTube video of a guy throwing a turkey at his dad. Oh, this is going to be people snapping on Thanksgiving.

Right. Sometimes it's a plan. Sometimes it's just, I think I need to kill everyone because, you know. Just had enough. I've had enough. And also the Cowboys lost today or whatever it is. I don't know. They lose their mind.

Yeah. That's how it works. I'm not sure. So do that. And even the crime and sports bonus episode is backstory on the I-5 killer, Randall Woodfield, who was a crime and sports, actually, an episode. And we're going to do a lot more backstory on him and how he got started and stuff like that.

So that is a name serial killer. So you should be interested in that. That and a ton more over at Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Anybody over the $5 level will get all of that. And Jimmy will mispronounce your name. If you just want good karma and also to get your name mispronounced and be a producer and feel good about that, you can do that over at PayPal as well using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Quickly, the disclaimer, this is a comedy show.

It is. Comedy podcast. The facts are we wish they weren't real, but they are. We wish none of this stuff happened, but it does. That's why unfortunate whether we talk about it or not, it's still going to keep happening. That's the thing. So, you know, we were going to we're going to do we're comedians. That's what we do.

We're going to talk about small towns. We'll joke about that. We'll joke about a police force and mess something up. We'll make fun of murderers. That's what we do. What we try not to do. We go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes but we're not scumbags that's how it works it's good stuff so buckle up and have fun if that

sounds good to you if not true crime and comedy should never ever go together for you maybe it's not for you yeah you know or maybe it is you give it a shot but don't complain later because you may not even know there's jokes coming so watch out for that and uh everybody else wants to have a good time and hear one of the craziest stories we've ever heard i think it's time to sit back clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy okay let's go on a trip okay we're going're going from Massachusetts, where we were last week. There's a distance up there. Up there in the northeast. We're heading down south again.

Yeah. Can't get much more different than Alabama and Massachusetts, I would say. Fuller opposite. I think Venus and Jupiter are probably more similar. Yeah. Because I've been to both, and they're very different. So, Aniston, as as you know we've done before we did aniston episode 21 yeah was an aniston alabama case and it was funny because

we got some uh a little bit of hate mail some pushback i'm not hate mail hate press right on that from an actual publication in aniston alabama chose to publish an article about it yeah really had like a little snarkiness to it like you know like they don't know the real aniston alabama chose to publish an article about it yeah really had like a little snarkiness to it like you know like they don't know the real aniston type of thing and it was like listen motherfucker there's a reason why no one knows the real aniston only you your town is beautiful and named after jen shut the fuck up if you were in a provincial dipshit that never left five near five feet from where he was fucking born you'd probably know that shit shit. If every girl there doesn't look like Jen Aniston, I don't want to hear it.

That's what I mean. It was Reese Witherspoon, Sweet Home Alabama. No. Oh, oh, oh. Because of the last name. Oh, Aniston, Alabama. Jesus Christ. For some reason, I went to the...

It's from PSA Hate This Movie. I've had to watch all these romantic comedies. They're bored into my fucking brain now. Great. Great. Great. So, yeah, they had a little bit of an issue in Allisand, Alabama. But we took it in stride. We laughed about it, and we sent him a cheer-up bitch shirt.

Yes, we did. So that was our way. Cheer it right on up. That was our way of taking that. So this quick refresher, it's in northeastern Alabama. The nickname of the town is the model city oh which if i once we tell you about the town this is a model gone wrong this is a model where someone tried to build it and they they put the glue on too early

and now there's things out of place they just mean it's like the clay before you do anything with it it's it's a lump of something. I don't know if clay is the word I'm looking for, but it's a lump of something. It's mushy. Yeah. Since we already did the town, listen to episode 21 for the standard stats. We'll still do real estate report and I'm going to catch up on the income now and stuff like that, population, but none of the in-between stats.

History too. We did a long history on it in the stats uh will history too we did we did a long history on it in the first episode uh we'll just recall in case you refresh your memory uh racist history bad shit in the early 60s and don't drink the water because the town is just loaded with pcbs and it's toxic it's bad shit everything in the town is toxic. Saves your body forever. Watch out for that. 60 minutes to the peace on it. Monsanto basically salted the earth for 45 years before they finally stopped it. And you can't get rid of those PCBs. They don't go away.

It's not good. I found some reviews of the town. We give a certain view based on what we read. And we don't go to the towns to walk around and go, actually, that little restaurant's not bad. And Chet's a pretty good waiter. Like we don't get to do that. So let's do some reviews and let other people tell you about the town. Here's a review here.

It's a two star review. I'm unimpressed. Not happy much. It's weird thing is that like some of the two star reviews were pretty good. It was like, you know, sort of. Okay.

You think like a three, four, but two stars, they recognize that it's a piece of shit.'s just not that bad it's weird so uh two stars quote it has a lot of bad and not enough good uh what is this pettit pedophil uh-huh pedophil i don't know p-e-t-i-i-f-m i don't know what that is yeah It seems like a misspelling there. Misfire on their part. Somebody's smidge drunk. Yeah. Pedophim.

Speak to text. That's what it is. Pedophim. It has no sparkle. And my only reason for even staying was that I loved the people there. Spelled T-H-E-I-R. The less popular spelling of over there. You rarely switch those two those those two you never switch

now i see it the other way with that is a proof let's do that one for that one the aniston uh education system is special we'll just put it that way so great they're doing a good job uh but the bad outweighs the good so there can be no better more answered so there can be no better more answered oh boy what the fuck are you talking about i want to meet that i hope you're either from another country or you've had like a shitload of like corn mash whiskey tonight or whatever you your own moonshine you're drinking down there yeah hammering it hard better from it has no sparkle think about this think about i'll read it exactly as it's written okay

it has a lot of bad not enough good no comma yeah a lot of bad not enough good pedophilic has no sparkle and my only reason for staying is i love the people there i said it wrong because it's yeah but the bad outweighs the good so there can be no more better answer that's exactly how it was intended right you betcha where am i again oh this is yeah put that down uh two stars next one this one's a little more coherent anyway two stars quote very poor town is full of thrift stores rehabilitation centers high crime and unemployed corruption in the judicial system high academic standards held to middle and high school pupils aniston alabama is in need of a receding replacing the revaluation of all city and county workers seeing the city through thoroughly investigated by state and federal officials. Holy shit.

This city, we'll talk about it in the crime rate when we do that at the end, is just, it's one of the highest, the FBI listed as in the top five of small town crime rates. Really? It's like this, Selma's up there, a couple other that are just absolutely not great in terms of crime rate. Just corrupt all around. And a lot of corruption, and it's just, there's a lot going on here that's not great.

The money's supposed to be going somewhere. It doesn't. Therefore, that all is ruined. And and you got an ass. Someone will write an article complaining because we brought it up. Right. Sorry for bringing it up. These two assholes in Arizona are pointing out our shit.

How dare they point out the corruption. So what? So what? We're working on it. That's what we do. God damn it. Two stars. Addison has a high rate of crime we need more honest police officers and the schools need to be fixed schools is a the

apostrophe s um i have but that's okay at least it's it sounds right anyway and also they're they're right yeah also they need to be fixed and That too. Yeah, the point is still taken. Extra. It's extra taken. It's a living example, really, so it makes it better. Thank you for that. You know, maybe they're just putting themselves out there. See?

I don't even know that's wrong. This review is like the Constitution. It is a living, breathing thing. It is what it is, man. I have lived in Anniston about 10 years, and it's hard to find an affordable, decent place to live. Now, decent maybe, but affordable. Everything here is affordable. This is one of the cheapest towns we've ever been in for real estate.

And finally, two stars. This person has a – this is a – I like the long ones where they really – they're pissed. They sat down to let fly over here. I had some thoughts. Here we go. Two stars. I've lived in Anniston, Alabama for about eight years. If you like church and college football then you will fit right in but that's all they do and talk about they have zero nightlife and everything closes early the food here is

absolutely horrendous the they only have very greasy barbecue that isn't even very good the ribs have way too much fat on them and the pork pork is poor quality meat. You go to one place, and he's like, I don't like the ribs there. This town sucks. Well, that's all everybody says. Greasy-ass fucking ribs. Make your own food. They undercook everything from eggs and toast to pizza. Is this like a policy in the town?

The council passed this? Thou shall not cook things to temperature. They do not, by the way way and this is all capital letters understand sarcasm at all okay that i we know we know that we know that is true we get that very true very true that's there there's an edge to some people in some small towns that we're not saying aniston's one of them although honestly they're the only ones where some like i said provincial fuck dick wrote a goddamn article because they were so offended by us reading statistics and the fact that your goddamn town

is poison you can't drink the fucking water sorry gee sorry they'd get out if they could catch a deep breath though 60 minutes brought it up not us we just you know brought it on our audience sorry about that so you know we get it we've been to some of these places where their sarcasm isn't a real big thing they don't get it they look at you like you're like you're just being an asshole yeah that's arizona's like that too to be honest with you you have to go kind of have to pick and choose your battles a lot of specialty uh special special directed anger and it's usually around humor why are you being what's so funny to you yeah goddamn joke yeah yes kind of yeah if it's not hopefully this fucking place sucks so why do you why don't you have some hopefully or else i

am gonna be really poor for a long time i'm gonna die in the streets really that's all i have these are the best ones i've got that's the other thing this is all i got so this is all i got and it's all i have so i don't know what I'm supposed to do. So they do not understand sarcasm at all. He has a theory, though. I think that is due to poor education because the public schools are terrible. All right. Additionally, people do not understand the rules of driving.

OK, they will not switch lanes to allow you to merge. They do not know who has the right away and they do not yield to oncoming traffic. People also do not worry about the needs of others if you go to a grocery store and try to go down an aisle if someone is in your way they will not care at all well i would like to remind this guy that if you're getting on the on-ramp they have the right of way yeah you slow down or speed up motherfucker yeah yeah yeah but there's still a certain yeah you know what i mean there's some there's a certain you get over it to let them on. That's true.

Yeah, there's a certain. I do have the right of way if I'm on the fucking freeway. A lot of times, too, I've noticed this. Sometimes rural areas, people will be extra friendly. And sometimes rural areas, it's almost like they're not used to having anybody around them. So they're really not friendly like that. You think you're the only one on the road? Yeah, this is my town.

They don't understand social things because there's not enough people around to understand social things you're not putting that situation enough that's rare i'm not saying that's this because this isn't a town of like 300 people there's enough people here i'm not making excuses for these people they might just be assholes i'm not sure so people speaking of them 22,097 the population is up to a lot it's declining it's been in decline since the 80s. I think it's really sharply since about 2000, right about when that 60 Minutes piece came out. We brought that up on the first episode. Shocking.

Yeah. People were like, Weird when you find out. Weird. Erin Brockovich had just come out fairly recently, too. Shit's poison. Maybe we should leave. Maybe we should call that woman and get the fuck out of here.

What the fuck did Stone Phillips just say? No, he wasn't on. He was on Dateline. Charlie date Charlie Rose no what the fuck did Hugh Downs just tell me I think he was 60 minutes right I don't remember I'm not old enough to watch 60 minutes no sorry I never I never was I don't recall who's on it yeah I remember everyone was 100 when I was a kid Barbara Walters used to interview everybody she was the interviewer and then I think Hugh Downs was the old guy okay I'm Hugh Downs welcome to 60 minutes yeah we to interview everybody. She was the interviewer. And then I think Hugh Downs was the old guy in the beginning. I am Hugh Downs. Right.

Welcome to 60 Minutes. Yeah. We're about to tell you all the awful shit in the world for the next hour. Here it is. Buckle up. Quickly, unemployment rate is high in this town. Household income is low. $57,000 and a half is about the usual.

Here it's $32,000 median household income. Very low. Cost of living is $100,000 is regular average. Here it is $32,000 median household income. Very low. Cost of living is $100,000 is regular average. Here it is $77,000, but the housing is a $41,000. Perfect. Median home cost $94,900. Very affordable. Excessively low.

And if we've convinced you, damn it, the only place for you is Anniston, Alabama. You don't care about the poison water. You don't care about the poison water. You don't care about any of it. You're ready to make a commitment. We have for you the Anniston, Alabama real estate report. All right, here we go. All right, found some houses here. Pieces of shit.

Never mind renting. You're not renting here. No. These houses are so cheap if you're renting what do you get your shit together what happened to you yeah get your shit together get a gas station credit card for two months and you can buy one of these houses your credit will be good enough i'm telling you trust me from a guy who's had problems believe me so anniston alabama i found a three bedroom two bath 189 square feet. So not bad. It's a good-sized house.

Good-sized house. Outside, I mean, it's clean, but it's like a light, like, Pepto-Bismol pink with red shutters. It used to be dark pink. You got to worry about that. Red shutters? Red shutters on the pink. $49,000, though.

Deal. So, I mean, you can paint your goddamn shutters for 49 grand. Then I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,124 square feet. So, again, a pretty decent-sized house. That's a good house for a couple of kids. Some room for them. Decent inside. Decent house.

$52,500. That is unbelievable. Yeah, because it's toxic. I mean, don't get me wrong. But still, then I found, let's say you ran the PCB plant. Yeah. You have poisoned everyone and have benefited greatly from it. I found a six-bedroom, six-bath tea bowl for every b-hole, each and every b-hole, 8,555 square feet.

What? Huge, sick house, 31.64 acres around it. That's so much Alabama. Insane. $975,000. A million dollars. Under a million. Wow.

What would that be in Paradise Valley or Scottsdale? For that many acres? I don't know. $21 million that would be. And then you'd parcel the land, develop it, and then sell each house and be a billionaire. For $4 million each. Yeah. This is $975,000 for an insane, like, ridiculous.

That's a ridiculous, you know, like. That's showing your Alabama dick right there. Yeah. That's like you were, I don't know who lives there. Nick Saban would live there. Like, you'd have to be, like, you to be a retired NFL player or some shit. 8,000. Who the hell has an 8,500 square foot house?

That's ridiculous. How much house do you need? That's the governor, right? Or something? I don't know. It's got to be. It's got to be the college football coach. Somebody.

Why would you pick there to land? In their contracts, you can choose any house in the state. You can just kick the family out they're happy to do it it's they think of it as their patriotic alabama honor uh to leave for the crimson tide it started with bear brian back in the day it's a tradition that's been going on for about 50 years now that's what they call the tide roll when they roll your fucking tide family right the fuck out but they're allowed to keep your daughter if they'd like for any purpose that's the other thing too sexual or otherwise it's really fine they're there it's that's the law unless that tide's

rolling and families go come on sweetie now nick saban said that you're cute so you're gonna have to go that's disgusting but it's not us it's alabama it's just it's a that's what happens nick's got covid james he could die of course he does wasn't he the one of the people running around yeah probably there's no such thing as right now everybody's does wasn't he the one of the people running around yeah probably there's no such thing as right now everybody's got it and he's one perfect that's that's awful they were just I don't wish COVID on no but he's got it I also don't want him to have the pick of the children of the of the land so I'd rather he has COVID yeah oh yeah definitely if the choice is he has COVID or he gets to have sexual interaction with little girls I'm gonna go

with COVID every time and then I really don't gets to have sexual interaction with little girls. I'm going to go with COVID every time. And then I really don't want him having any interaction with little girls, sexual or otherwise. Anyway, a little too deep into that one. We did. Things to do in this town. Not a lot, as you might imagine. But I found some things to do. I found mainly this, the Anniston Family Heritage Festival, a music concert.

Now, we always get a little worried, let's say. Uneasy. Uneasy when we hear the word heritage in Alabama in the same sentence. And family. You start to go, oh, no, this could be bad. Right. But this isn't bad. Really?

No, it's not one of those. It's not a heritage festival in quotes. You know, it's more like culture of everybody. Because Anniston, one thing about Anniston, it's not just a white southern town. Right. As we've talked, Anniston, we did it in the last episode, is more than half black. Okay. So it's pretty much black and white is everybody that lives there.

So it's very much mixed. Celebr is everybody that lives there but so it's it's a it's very much mixed celebrating community i guess so yeah this one this was 2019 because it wasn't going on this year they don't have x booked for 2021 yet so good have to go with 2019 schedule and it says that fun in the park includes something for all ages free kid zone splash pad yeah which sounds disgusting but i know what they're talking about they're they're they are disgusting disgusting you'll get giardia there oh yeah absolutely that's the where you get it you get giardellis too which is just as bad i love giardellis yeah it's good chocolate uh dj big sweat okay with two t's yeah it's in june in alabama so everyone there is going to be big sweat whoever was djing was going to be dj big sweat yeah don't

worry about that food vendors come out with your lawn chairs and enjoy a day in the park with family and friends tents allowed in designated areas only no personal grills allowed okay you gotta tell everyone this isn't a fucking auburn football game right calm down we get it you make good hot dogs yeah it's fine that's great your greasy, fatty ribs to yourself. Music on stage begins at 4 p.m., and then we get into the acts. Now, I took a picture of one of the, you know, there's a couple of little lineups of the pictures. And I'm blown away by it because it doesn't feel like the same people would enjoy all of these acts. We'll put it that way.

Well, Jimmy, I'm going to show you the picture do you think that the same people are enjoying him who enjoy them who is that guy okay there's a guy on the left named tim mcdonald stand in front of american stand in front of an american flag with a trucker hat on and a denim vest yeah and a denim jacket and he's waving in a somehow his wave is right it's very yeah i don't even know how it's like he's clearly his name is tim mcdonald yeah he's clearly singing country music he's not going up there i don't think he's doing sweet freestyle like that's not happening probably hitting some most death no i see a guitar neck next to him too he put his guitar down to wave like obviously and then he's at 4 p.m

then at 5 p.m is poo and phase two and it's six black dudes some of them who look like preachers wearing like steve harvey suits right and some of them just dress normal have like hats on and shit like reg jeans and like regular clothes yeah i don't know what the fucking theme is here exactly between poo and phase two they're all oddly photoshopped look how badly this guy's photoshopped out his head's like lumpy poor bad from the photo like the guy who did it has a shaky hand when he went around his head trimmed him terribly and it just looks terrible and then day break with two k's after that yeah which is like it looks like a gospel r&b group of like 60 year old black people right like you know the ladies up front no these are women here it's a bald guy with a big beard no bald guy bald guy it's like five bald guys shaquille o'neal apparently

with his hat on there and like uh three women who seem to be the lead of the whole thing it's very interesting and that's day And that's day break. That's day break. So if you sat there from four to seven, you'd see all three of those acts, which is a trip. I can't imagine anyone liking all of those. It's all encompassing. Unless you just really love Alabama and everything that it has to offer. Maybe that's true.

You're just loving all of the heritage and the culture. Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in, obviously. It's gotten worse since last time. It's about the same, but it is a little bit worse, actually, statistically. Property crime, over three times the national average. Very high on the property crime.

But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. Property can't property can't come close over four times the national average it is super violent crime yeah that's why the yeah it's say it's on the most dangerous cities list wow and it's on like all the worst lists like worst place to move worst place to raise a family worst place to do this worst place to do that worst place to drink a glass of water out of the tap. Yeah. It's in a lot of worse lists.

Chemically, it's bad. But then you mix in the actual people that live there and it's worse. It's way worse. So that said, let's talk about a murder. Okay. That's why your property is so valueless. That's well, between the crime and the fact that everything is toxic. How, who, it's not a real attractive real

estate market for people you know to come to that makes sense why they couldn't just pool their money and get sir mix a lot to play they can't get anybody they have to rely on local shit they got tim mcdonald right like have i heard of him probably not what is his name sounds familiar don't he owns those restaurants well no i don't know i don't know shit about country yeah i just know like what you like you know hear real famous people or who's on the fucking voice or whatever this time i don't know anything about country music so i know that guy is nobody i don't know who i don't even know who i just mean whoever they put on there yeah so i saw tim mcdonald and i saw him and i'm like is he real famous like i thought about him like tim mcdonald that sounds you and

everybody in the town had the same thought. Because that sounds familiar. I think it's just a familiar... Sounds like a country guy. Yeah. Sounds like somebody could be in the top 10. Oh, Tim McDonald. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, oh, shit. Did I see him at the county fair? Probably. About two years ago, I think. Opry, Opry McDonald, right? Yeah. I know I've seen him there. I've seen him there.

All right, now. Let's talk about a murder here. Okay. them there i've seen them there all right now let's talk about a murder here uh now this story takes place in the 1970s in rural alabama that's when the actual murder takes place and when the whole crux of the story is that mid-1970s in rural anniston alabama um so like all murder stories that take place in rural alabama 1970s, where do we start? Marlow, New Hampshire in 1983. Okay.

Obviously. Yeah. Right? Marlow. Marlow, New Hampshire, 1983. Okay. That's on the west side of the state? That's where we're going to see.

Yeah, it's over by Vermont. Okay, got it. Over there. Okay. So, very good. I'm getting my geography down up there. It's not bad. He knows Vermont.

I don't know vermont new hampshire and uh yeah i see signs and freeways pointing that way and i'm like that seems like east still looking for oil property in tallahassee but he's i know marlo marlo is so it starts in marlo new hampshire which no sense, but it will make perfect sense in 1983 here. Now, there there's a man named John Homan who lives there. H-O-M-A-N is his name. And basically, he was told that an FBI agent came to him and told him that his wife is in custody of the FBI. And this man said, quote, there must be some mistake.

He said, no, no, no, no. You definitely positively don't have my wife in custody because my wife, Robbie, died three months ago. So that would really be pretty amazing if she then committed crimes and you arrested her. Right. I buried her. Yeah. Like, you know, you can find her obituary it's in the newspaper how'd you hang out that bag of dust yeah i was a i had her cremated so

sprinkled her ashes over the lake behind my house i i don't know how you did that that's it's amazing the water what'd you do sir that's amazing wow i don't know what this new police technology is i've heard of the the imaging when they find someone and they can recreate a face from a skull, but this is incredible. You guys can suck dust out a lake and reanimate it? And put it into custody. Unbelievable. Incredible. Probably didn't happen, I would say. He said, you know,

if you have someone in custody, that's probably not my wife, that's probably my wife's sister, her twin sister. So that would explain why you thought it was my wife her my sister's name is terry her sister's name is terry uh terry martin and my wife's name is robbie so you know whatever uh she he said but she after my wife died you know he she came up to help me out and she's been up here helping me out for the last couple months so if you have anybody, I would assume that's who it is. And they said, yeah, okay, maybe.

This is the FBI talking to the man. Says, you're sort of wrong and you're sort of on the money at the same time. They said, the person that we have is definitely your wife, but there's more to it than that. Oh, no. So let's talk about this as a matter of fact she's not your wife and she's not that her twin sister either she's a completely different person okay and wait yeah this isn't your wife that we have it's not her twin sister either it's somebody completely different than you thought it was who by the way isn't dead or a twin she's a different person and we have her in custody and that was his wife that was the woman he was married oh my god

okay that's how this story starts yeah that's the beginning of this story how old is home man okay 40 years old oh geez yeah no he's not 20 or yeah he's 40 these women are in their 30s this is a this is a yeah these are adults are adults. Okay. Right away. Pardon? Yeah. Executive producer, Dick Wolf. Dick Wolf. Fuck that.

Executive producer, Aaron Sorkin. This is a soap opera, man. This is like some, if a soap opera started like this, you could get the fuck out of here. You change the fucking, even if you watched, you go young and the restless has lost their goddamn minds. I'm changing the channel. Yeah. This is real.

This happened, okay? It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts so now let's leave that there marlo new hampshire 1983 john homan what the fuck are you talking about sweet christ sweet jesus okay now let's go and we'll talk about some other people. Okay. Let's talk about some people. Let's talk about a man named Frank.

First, Frank Hilly. Yeah. H I L L E Y. He is born in 1930. Frank Hilly. So in the seventies, he'll be in his forties. He comes up and he lives in, in Hoyt, Alabama, and then lives in Anniston as a whole adult life.

And he's an employee of the union foundry company. All right. He's a union man of the union foundry company all right he's a union man a union foundry guy yeah well it's the union foundry company but he's also a union like iron man yeah and he uh and he he was in the korean war okay conflict whatever he's in the korean conflict he's a member of the vfw yep he goes on down to there and drinks and smokes and does his thing and so i mean he's if you're not from america not from the states that's uh veterans of foreign wars that's what they do they go there and they drink cheap beer and somehow are still allowed to smoke in there

indoors while they're holding their oxygen tanks it's amazing property yeah well we've so weird every comedian has done a show in a vfw when they first started i did it like my first four months of comedy wild those old ladies in there are the best if you get them going with some dirty shit oh they are horny they're getting extra oxygen because they're fucking they love it ah that's hilarious it's very strange to be on stage telling a joke and then a puff of smoke goes into your face you're just like i can't believe this is still legal that's great it's great it's just fucking weird because you can't that doesn't happen in a comedy club no no it's true across the country outlaw those goddamn ladies though they were just so fun they were the

funniest thing in the world because i remember i started my set and i did a couple jokes that i was trying to be because they're all everyone in the room was over 65 so i was trying to be not myself yeah my first time they were good first couple jokes i said something off the cuff that was very filthy i remember just out of like the frustration just for the comics to try to make myself feel better and all the old ladies laughed and i went you like i said to them you like dirty, do you? Oh, they do. I said, let's talk. Let's chat, ladies. And I started going, ah. I'm like, these are my people.

Love it. Those are women that were married to guys like Frank. That's what I mean. They were married. That's why they're there. We treat them like they're precious and, I don't know, have shit loads of men. Fragile is what you mean. Right, fragile.

They're not. And they're not. And they have oxygen tanks right fragile they're not and they're not they have oxygen tanks but they're not fragile i'm tougher than you i say dirtier oh yeah they loved it they fucking loved it they didn't want to hear any corny shit yeah they uh by the way we've talked we'll talk about it after the show but that guy did terrible that night you know he did the whole thing and it was it was so funny it was, man. They just looked at him like he was- He had three eyes. Three heads.

Not mine eyes. Who the fuck is this guy? So Frank Hilley, Frank is born in 1930, and like we said, lived in Anniston. In 1951, when he's 21 years old, he meets a young lady, a young lady who just graduated from high school and you know from the anniston area and back then you know you get married right away this is 1951 yeah so i mean if you were 20 right and a lady they were like clock's ticking i mean you're an old maid here get yourself a house and buy a car with a man yeah you're supposed to be married off already i mean

back then and a guy he's 21 it's like you started looking for a wife yet or what pal jesus christ you're gonna settle down yeah the fuck are you doing you're gonna be all dried up by the time it's ready to go here so he meets audrey marie frazier because the young lady she goes by marie though she never uses audrey yeah it's always marie she's born in 1933 and uh she's from this area she is uh from the Blue Mountain area, which is kind of where Aniston encompasses in that area. And she grew up, I guess, where she is, is right by the Linen Thread Company, where that was. It's a big cotton mill with big brick buildings, and it's right in the center of town. That's the center of their town is a cotton mill. Good Lord. in the center of town that's the center of their town is a cotton mill good lord not you know a

movie theater or the you know some restaurants or city hall or a park or something it's something nice to look at cotton mill there it is that's yeah that's a gander at this this is what we're interested in here so uh she was the only she's a uh she grew up around here and trying to make her way. She was a student in Anniston high school and was just kind of, she wasn't like, you know, all by herself or anything like that, but she wasn't really part of a group or part of anything. She wasn't in any extracurriculars,

you know, like she wasn't a cheerleader. She wasn't considered like this or she wasn't, you know, on the debate team or anything like that. She just kind of functional outcast, just kind of not even an outcast she just kind of floats through she's a pretty girl but she's not like anything that like that people are knocked out by or anything that's not to judge her i'm just mean that's how she describes it as she grows up as

and her you know people around her and her family that she just wasn't a knockout or anything like that she was just a kind of a normal girl and again high school but nothing popular or unpopular nobody made fun of her that sort of thing so she uh uh she's in this area she her um she wasn't that popular like i said though that's the thing her mother and father would leave her with her grandmother for weeks at a time as a child and this made her feel kind of unloved i guess and she told people that she told her friends that like my parents don't even love me they leave me for like a month and the rejection of that alone is fucking horrible yeah kids don't get that no it's not like you could facetime with them back in the day and shit i mean they

probably wouldn't even talk on the phone right back then they might you could you want to write mom and dad a letter like that that's as good as as it got. I think that shit in the mail. Yeah. 1951. They're not going to pay long distance to Anniston. So she felt that her parents and especially her mother didn't love her, though. She had an issue with her mom big time. And her friend of hers, her relative actually named Frida Adcock.

She'll come up later. named frida adcock she'll come up later she remembers that that marie would try to become friends with for some reason on the east side of town there's a bunch of people with bigger houses that's where like all the rich people live the people who own and ran the mill i guess and she would try to make friends specifically with those kids who lived there like she tried to make friends with all the rich kids for some reason like she's aiming at birthdays better parties yeah much better birthday parties or just just a place to go trick-or-treating maybe they give out full sizes over here on this side of town it's snickers time over on the east side so uh yeah they they did that though she would but she like it was a weird like a that's a strange thing for a child to try to like socially climb

specifically as a kid you don't give a shit about that like maybe that's a strange thing for a child to try to, like, socially climb. As a kid, you don't give a shit about that. Like, maybe that one kid has a ton of video games, and he's a rich kid, so you want to hang out with him because he has video games. Or he's got so much room that we ride dirt bikes in his backyard. Yeah, but it's not because he's, you know, it's not for any status as a child. We just want to ride a dirt bike. Also, that kid's kind of, not for nothing, he's kind of a dick. Yeah, that kid with the dirt bike. He has he's kind of a dirt bike to hang out with well he's always an asshole because he knows that you want to ride his dirt bike right so he's yeah i don't have that and that he can hold that over

my fuck you exactly i've also got weed what do you have that's the dirt bike i bring weed even swap fuck you i don't want your dirt bike i'm stoned i'm only riding yeah have fun on your dirt bike 10 minutes in your backyard before we start taking bong rips this is stupid so uh yeah strange though the frida said it was weird and it never amounted to anything either she would she would make a little bit of friends but she was never like in she could never get in with a group that was her thing like she'd always try and that was the the rich kid group was the one she really tried to infiltrate and just never really amounted to much. And so she graduates in 1951.

And that's when she gets married right away to Frank. And he is his father was also a foundry worker. So, I mean, this is just what his family does. And he makes pretty good money. Sure. This is a good job. I mean, he's lucky to have that job. Absolutely.

To get out of high school and get in as a foundry worker. That's what everybody in a town like this wants in 1950. You know? So they get married very quickly. He has a job as an iron worker, like we said. And in 1953, they have a child already. Jeez. So this is the 50s, man.

This is what you do. First child is a son named Mike. Yeah. He comes out. They end up giving birth in 1960 to a daughter named Carol. And that is when she's pregnant with Carol, when she starts to kind of become a little bit different. Her relatives said she started acting a little bit strange around that time in her during her second pregnancy and i mean a lot of people if you're pregnant there's a lot of stuff going on inside your body that you know you can't always control what's happening sometimes so i mean there's a i hate to say it like that

because it's almost like ah what are you on your period or something but like you know pregnant women are have are hormonal and emotional they just are they'll tell you that i'm all hormonal today get me this and that and turn the air conditioning down to 58 you're like what the fuck is happening who are you you know what i mean that's but that's what happens it's not their fault they're just shit i mean yeah and then as a dude as a father you've got to sit there and look at this woman who's going through all these changes and then in my head i'm going at some point she's got to try to get a fucking baby out yeah yeah there. That's crazy. Shit, I guess I'll turn the air conditioning down to 58.

Will that help? Yeah. Will that help get it out faster? Easier? Yeah. Kind of. I was just more panicked about that. I can't believe that's a thing.

That's crazy. That's awful. That's the plan. You'd think that something new would open up. Yeah. We'd have a better way of doing this. The belly button opens and the baby just walks on out like a garage door yeah falls out starts taking steps like a deer like

within 15 minutes i think that's how it should work closes on up afterwards it finds a uh some sort of cookbook somewhere and cooks its own fucking food i'm sure women wish that would be like that too i bet i have a feeling so uh she started to get a little bit odd odd in terms of saying weird things at weird times yeah that didn't seem just to have to have any sense also she would take what they called aimless nighttime strolls okay she'd just walk out two o'clock in the morning and go for a stroll. Walk around in her fucking nightgown through the streets. She wrote letters to herself, which is some people write themselves notes or like, you know, what I want to do or things like that. This is different.

She wrote notes to herself from imaginary lovers. People that she didn't, wasn't fucking. Don't exist. Yeah, no, these are imaginary people and left them around so her husband would find them oh what is that so that's what i mean i don't know what the either the psychology of that is either i either she i don't needs the the struggle or wants to fight or she wants to try to you know manipulate him's torture. It makes her feel more adequate or more self-esteem thing. Is the giggle worth it to watch a man melt down inside in the 50s?

Is he not paying attention to her? And she feels like maybe if I do this, then he'll get jealous and pay attention. Is this a last resort of just loneliness or desperation? Who knows? You know what i mean or is that all interpreted through the through the you know the beer goggles of hormonalness of pregnancy is that you know who knows you know through that kaleidoscope is that coming out like that and just who know we don't know i just feel bad for frank well yeah it's fucked up man oh it's messed up you're like what

are you doing why are they like graphic like uh fan fiction like you know it's the up. You're like, what are you doing? Why are they like graphic, like fan fiction? You know, it's the 60s. So, I mean, who knows? It was probably just my dearest. Yeah, whatever the fuck. Maybe it was dirty. I don't know. But you think he's sitting there going, why are you fucking someone with your handwriting? First of all, this is the most feminine.

The two of you. He's talking about pounding you all weekend. And it's in a really feminine. Really? I mean, there's a heart over an eye here. I don't believe him. I'm gonna be honest of you. He's talking about pounding you all weekend, and it's in a really feminine, really, I mean, there's a heart over an eye here. I don't believe him. I'm going to be honest with you. There's a heart. That's not in the eye. I don't buy it for a second.

So, yeah, really weird things, but most of the time, this is just weird little episodes. This wasn't every day. So they thought she was pretty normal just a good person good wife good mother as you know because this is by 60 standards we're in cheer up bitch times here this is not we're talking about they'd look at her and go that's a good wife she takes her kids to church on sunday look at that right good for her you know that's what they would do so and she's pregnant at this time with the second one yeah then she has the second one and her behavior continues to be a little strange but manageable here as we'll talk about for a little while

so she's got the two kids like we said michael born in 53 carol born in 60 and she's wants to be more of like a society person than she is she spends more money than they have he makes a pretty good salary but they don't have any savings or anything like that because they're they're always kind of in debt she spends a lot she wants to live a different lifestyle than she does same as this girl that's i mean everybody that's everybody that's among us exactly who the fuck doesn't right thank you so i mean that's nothing to be uh mad at her for june or january 22nd 1965 is um in the newspaper in the aniston aniston star which is where a lot of stuff comes from here i think that

it might be i think that's where he wrote from it's the only paper there it's the but that's they have a lot of information came from them on this case so good for the aniston star so there you go them in the atlanta journal constitution had a great piece and i'll say the author on it great so you're getting your credit january 22nd 1965 is in the newspaper it's uh the title is little girl is honored oh and it's uh mrs frank hilly entertained her daughter carol with a party in celebration of her first of her fifth birthday anniversary so they put like a notice yeah in the paper like in the society page of them having the birthday party for the little girl so that's yeah that's what she you know what i'm saying she requires and thrives and she wants to be in society and

be like she has a certain idea of who she wants to be and she's trying to get there which that's fine is that fucked up the that she wanted all that credit she got it and it's mrs frank hilly yeah but back then i get it that was what it was yeah i hate that yeah that's so that's so stupid i don't want to be it's so weird that it was back then so you don't even have a name right it's like exactly what that is taking the last name is one thing but you don't even have a first name now like it's just so weird you are mrs that's your name it's creepy shit i don't like it back then it was just not even thought of i guess it was a it was a point of pride james because because i'm married that's why it's so i guess so yeah i've got him and i want you to know

that i've got him yeah so bad that i am mrs that guy unlike all the ladies down in the secretarial pool right i got someone to make dinner for every night i take speed so my house is clean that's right when i'm sad they tell me cheer up bitch and i do and i'm happy to do it happy to do it if it is your first time listening that's a inside joke and we are being very sarcastic so in case you're from aniston and you don't know what sarcasm we were just defending women not being misogynists exactly so you never know like i said they don't understand sarcasm in aniston and you don't know what sarcasm we were just defending women not being misogynist so you never know like i said they don't understand sarcasm in aniston and we might have a couple people that don't who knows so it then goes on to say the affair took place at their home it wasn't even like it was like at somewhere it's a kid's birthday a five-year-old's birthday

party at their house and that's no there's no reason to waste newsprint on this they called the press they called the press. They called the press. Children enjoyed games and contests with prizes going to Christy Perry. Good for you. Sounds like a birthday party. A five-year-old who pinned the tail on the donkey. It's in the fucking newspaper. Colorful balloons and decorated the house for the occasion.

That sounds like a birthday party. Yeah, those are the symptoms. And guests were presented party favors. Yeah. Really? That's it. Now, if they say there's cake, I'm not going to believe it. If they tell me the little girl blew out the candles, I will not buy it.

That's where I know they're embellishing. Let's see here. Was there pizza and ice cream? Let's find out. Let's find out. Party refreshments were served from a table centered with a white birthday cake decorated in pink and topped with five burning candles. Really?

I'm surprised at that, really. Honestly, that's really strange. This is fascinating. Really weird. Mrs. Huey Frazier and Mrs. Clarence Hilly, those are Frank and Marie's parents, assisted the hostess in entertaining, and friends of the honoree uh present included donna and missy how do they go on the list a bunch of children one of which is one of which

is which is eric swan with two ends i believe the defensive end for the cardinals for years might have been him i don't know when was he born i don't know he's fucking born might be him eric swan was there he ate all the food it turned out to be six foot seven so now once carol starts going to school yeah you know she's five starts going to kindergarten so it's right about after this time they think this is when she really starts to get a little marie starts getting a little on the it goes a little more a little fucking bonjour here for a minute she's uh she's a little crazy uh and you know i mean i get it i don't know what's going on inside of her body or anything

else or inside of her mind and i feel bad for anybody that's got anything going on like this but uh she has nothing no problems really until after carol comes and that's when it just gets so weird they think that maybe like she ends up going to psychiatrists and they think that maybe she resents her daughter's birth yeah because her daughter gets more love than she did when she was a kid and like she gives the daughter a bunch of love and then gets mad at herself and resents the kid for getting that much love that she gave the kid oh god yeah it's a fucked up circle which in mind, that's got to be a horrible place to live with that circle going on.

All day. No one wants to be there. And then for a kid, you don't have any idea what's going on because one minute she's... She was so nice to me. She's, oh, here's this beautiful party. We're going to put it in the paper.

And then the next minute, she's resenting you for some... Because of the party that she had for you. You had nothing to do with. So it's hard. I didn't pick the cake. I didn't. I would have... I didn't pick the cake i didn't i would have i didn't need candles it didn't have to be pink i don't even like harry it's fine yeah you didn't

have to bring eric swan over here he's huge he's gonna eat all my cake i knew it so that's what they kind of think uh so she goes back to work at this point and she goes back to work always as a secretary secretarial positions that are like close to people who are in charge of shit like she's always the secretary for like you know the owner of the company okay like an executive assistant oh yes always to you know kind of influential men in the community right on top of that rose is with them right on top of that rose she was the executive secretary for harold musk oh who sounds like his balls stink yeah uh president of the first national bank of aniston wow look at that she worked for jim stanridge head of the aniston waterworks oh my yeah and she was secretary for lucian lenz not

lucian lenz holy shit double l now i get it yeah uh and leonard roberts as well both executives at class ribbon works so yeah and she was also secretary for claire draper president of dresser industries and they didn't make dressers her name is draper uh claire draper she does dresses dress dressers oh dresser industries okay that's the name of it she once modeled for lentz uh and did like some modeling for her for his whatever the fuck he was doing uh now leonard roberts remember that name for later by the way okay now uh to talk a little bit about her you'll need to know this for later she's a small woman to marie she is five foot tall hundred pounds tiny tiny tiny little brown hair green eyes yeah little tiny woman um little tiny southern real heavy southern drawl you know that little tiny

around town at 2 a.m wander pregnant pregnant as shit wandering the streets at 2 a.m very strange now people her family said she would spend too much money they all said that she spent too much money all the time like we said and then bills would come for things that she bought because you could just buy things back then and they bill you or she'd buy she'd get a credit card put it on that yeah when bills would come she would hide them from frank so she had like a problem with that with spending and then she would hide it and there's a lot of people that do that marriages that's if you spend it you gotta pay it don't hide it well that's yeah but that's a really common thing that happens though it's it's excessively common and somehow she'd always managed to pay things off without him knowing about it good for her that's how it worked well

the problem was how she got the money was a little we don't really know uh frida there we talked about her newer since she was she was a child quote, she could get money whenever she wanted it. And she would often come home. She would work late, quote, unquote, for a couple hours and then come home with $800 to $1,200 in cash. That's not. In the early 70s, which is like, you know, two weeks, a month's pay in the 1970s for her as a secretary. For two hours? It's like a month's pay in the 1970s for her as a secretary. For two hours? It's like a month's pay.

Yeah. And she'd come home and she said that it was for extra typing. I don't know how much you would have to type in 1973 to make $1,200, but it would be a massive amount. Right. A fucking massive amount. The minimum wage was like $2 an hour back then. I mean, are you kidding me?

Not that you should get paid minimum wage for that, but even if you're at 10 times minimum wage how long is that gonna take you to make 1200 they don't pay you ceo salary to type generally even at 20 bucks an hour it's you how how that's more than 40 40 hour work week of just typing she'd come home from a couple 40 hours worth of typing in two hours james that's's the thing. She was a badass. Well, yeah. Well, there was a lot of rumors that she was having affairs with her bosses a lot of the times. As a matter of fact, we'll find out that Frank actually found out about one of these batrists and actually may or may not have walked in on one of them. So that's a problem as well. Yeah. At one point.

So but it's not because she doesn't like frank it's about the spending she wants the money yeah she needs the money and she likes the status of it and so that's what she does so it's a really odd she's got a really weird psychological makeup yeah going on here it's a it's it's strange it really is we've we've talked about a lot of murderers and this one's kind of here everything she does you're like for money that's a weird okay i mean i i mean generally people in a in a prostitution or any sort of sex work are doing it for the money they're not doing it because they like it yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah but

yeah absolutely it's not this isn't like oh this is my my life's work here no one's but they don't generally uh run a day job and then they're like you know i'd really just like to get a better couch i don't have twelve hundred dollars but what i do have yeah well that's that's that's a fucking weird it's a strange thing i mean i guess her bosses would die yeah she she could get them to give her a few bucks and i don't know if it was a direct quid pro quo or if it's just she's having an affair with them and she you know she needs a little money they'll give them some money because you know you do that with people you're close to whether you're fucking them or not especially if you're that close if you're that close where

you're inside of them you should probably if they need a couple of bucks help them out you know what i mean from that you know from that from that proximity and if you don't yeah from that proximity it's right around the corner you may as well you might as well it's right there so apparently though her she liked she liked like when she'd have there'd be like you know events at these companies and stuff she liked that sort of thing because it made her feel more kind of high society she would would buy clothes she couldn't afford and jewelry she couldn't afford and shit like that. One of her family members said, quote, Frank always stayed within his class, but Marie had to go to the best stores. That's what they said.

They said that, you know, but, you know, years passed by and the marriage is still a solid, though, somehow. Frank works a lot. And I don't think it's now like when people talk. Back then, people just came home, they ate dinner, they watched some TV, and they went to bed. Feelings. Fuck your feelings. You're going to bring up some guy who works at the fucking Iron Foundry and was in the Korean conflict. You're going to bring up feelings.

the fucking iron foundry and was in the korean conflict you're going to bring up feelings and he's going to you can bring up your feelings but he's not going to sit there and talk about feelings with you for five hours until one o'clock in the morning and cry with you and you can say there's a different kind of person i'm lonely and the lonely he's felt is entirely different from yours and he's gonna be like i was in the fucking i was in korea but you think i was not lonely back then too they wouldn't he would have said you you got the kids. Like, that's company. You're like, oh, thanks. People I have to take care of and do shit for. Yeah, that's a lot of kind.

Well, at least they don't have M-16s shooting at you. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Are the kids Korean? Let me ask you that. No, exactly. They're born in Alabama. They're not shooting at you. So everything was kind of normal.

Frank ends up being promoted to a supervisor at the foundry, bringing in more money, which is good and kind of makes everything a little bit better and makes her a little bit happy. Mike ends up going to college, as we'll talk about. He goes to seminary college and gets married. And we'll get to that in a minute. I have the announcement of the marriage, too. Great. But the problem is that they oh also he's gonna be he's gonna go to like i said seminary college the son to be a preacher that's what he wants to

be at the christian church in east point georgia is where he ends up now marie is worried about her daughter though big time her daughter carol let me show you this is a family portrait now what a night look at that family. It looks like a television show. That's Frank and her. That's Frank. Yeah. That's Marie. Yep.

That's Carol. And that's look at Mike. Mike. Mike and Carol. Both kids are gorgeous. Carol's gorgeous. Mike looks like a TV star. He looks like he's on Baywatch.

He's got like long blonde hair. Flowing. This is like 1972. Right. Yeah. He looks like he should be on like some television they did great he's tall right carol's a pretty girl she's she's shorter like her mom but she's a very pretty girl as well and you know these are kids at this point she's a teenager family yeah very nice family here

good stuff and uh uh so you can see the family but uh carol apparently Marie, started telling all her family and friends that she was worried about Carol. Okay, why? When she's in her early teens in 1973, 1974, because she thinks that Carol is showing a sexual preference for women, as she put it. That's how she put it to a friend of hers, in quotes. That's how she put it to a friend of hers in quotes. She believes that Carol is into girls, and she is very concerned about that because it's Alabama and it's 1973 and they go to church every week. And, you know, there's not a lot of open mindedness for a book told me this is bad. Yeah, there's not a lot of open mindedness for that back then. It just wasn't in the south and especially just in not even in the south everywhere yeah i mean there was some acceptance in some places but

it was really not there little bubbles man yeah and little bubbles so um and it's not it wasn't even established if that was what she was really thinking at the time this is just what marie thought so august 24th 1974 is when michael gets married uh frank was his best man oh that's awesome so yeah that's frank's a they all the kids love frank everybody frank seems like a good guy here so um yeah they had all of that they had a little kid do the ring bearing very nice may 1975 okay this is when his son uh this is his son mich Michael, is in college doing training to be a preacher. And, you know, that's how that's going on over there. And he's in East Point, Georgia.

And Frank visits his son, Michael, in East Point. He complains to Mike about feeling sluggish and tired. He's not feeling very well lately. And, you know, kids like, I don't know, what are you in your forties to start to feel sluggish? What do you want from me? You know, I mean, it's what it is. People, the old Louis CK joke where he goes and he's my ankle hurts and he goes, well, yeah, it's just shitty now.

How old are you? Yeah. That's why you're in your forties, dude. It's just shit. Things are just suck now. Yeah. Things just suck now. Give me a new ankle.

No, it's just, that's the one you got. It's just shitty now. Deal with it. Yeah. It's just going to hurt for a while. I don't know while that's the equivalent of cheer up bitch that's it take some advil except for men they get older yeah it's just like i don't know your your body's fucked up look at it look at you you know you can see it in the mirror it's breaking down what do you think's happening on the inside what do you think it's only on the outside but the inside's inside's pristine no yeah if you look at the outside of a banana peel and it's fucked up that banana is fucked up too guess what it's gonna mirror image that shit pretty good pretty good

chances the inside looks about the same color maybe worse right you know that doesn't look good to eat the inside doesn't look good either no it does and you're if you're older and that's how things happen that's natural progression that's you got it but i i google things now and i know that uh just by googling like i know but when i'm like super tired i go am i sick and then it always brings up that i've got cancer so right now i'm worried about frank yeah everybody everything is cancer so that's the thing i'm terrified what do you feel a little sore throat well it's that's obviously cancer, clearly. Clearly, yeah. I've heard every little tiny ailment somebody had has eventually been, oh, and then it turned out to be cancer.

So, you know, that's why everybody just shrugs now. You're like, I don't fucking know. I'm sure I'm dying. It's going to end. I'm sure I'm dying now. So he visits his son. He complains that he's feeling sluggish and tired. And a few days later, after he gets home, Frank leaves and goes home. He calls his son and tells him that he has something very important to discuss with him.

But he has to talk about it the next time he sees him the next weekend because he can't discuss it over the phone. Oh. Which is, yeah. I mean, what do you got? The Lufthansa heist? What are you doing exactly? What are we planning here? We taking out a rival preacher?

What's going on? I need to talk to you, but not on phones. Yeah, you know. And when I do talk to you, cover your mouth in case they're watching. You know, like a casino. Smoke a cigarette and cover your mouth. Bring a toothpick, anything. It's all, everything.

Just obscure their view. Something you got to put in your mouth always. So, yeah. So, over the phone. Yeah. What are you going to do? Kill the preacher who's currently in plight at East Point so you can get in there? What's going on? The supervisor ahead of him at the plant?

We need another promotion. Help me, son. I want to talk to you about something, son. I'm not a big fan of Eisenhower. Let's talk. Let's talk. I know that was a long time ago, but still, it's fine. Let's talk about Watergate, son.

What is it, May 1975? Yeah, that just happened. 1975, it's Nixon. He's like, yeah, well, it's the sun. Nixon's resigning. know crazy so 1975 in may it continues to persist he doesn't feel good he doesn't feel good a little worse all the time sluggish all that sort of shit so finally may 23rd 1975 he goes to the hospital and he's admitted into the hospital on just based on his symptoms and it doesn't look good and based on the lab work they do they it shows acute liver malfunction oh no which is not great and they diagnose him with hepatitis infectious hepatitis so yeah that's bad

obviously and he hasn't been treating it because he didn't even know he had it he's just getting worse and worse and worse oh yeah his liver's just getting all fucked up and he was just walking around you know thinking he feels sluggish because he's in his 40s and he's an iron worker so he's like yeah i put a lot of miles on my body probably kind of wish he had google i know right don't you so i don't know that's that's rough so about a week and a half later um he comes back and he's admitted to the hospital again and uh you know it's still hepatitis. At this point, he is vomiting and hallucinating. He's picking up bed sheets and reading them like they were a newspaper.

Yeah. When I say hallucinating. Wow. That's what I'm saying. Not, is there, you know, do you see a shadow over there? He's like, did you see the Mets loss today? And they're like, that's what I'm saying. Not not. Is there, you know, do you see a shadow over there? He's like, did you see the Mets loss today? And they're like, that's his pillowcase. What the fuck is he talking about?

Reading is my pillow. Yeah. Talking about his daughter's fucking birthday. Yeah. Well, it was pancake. You see what these bastards in China are doing? They're like, he's reading his broccoli right now. Let's go.

He picked his plate up and he just said that the chinese attacked vietnam uh with it's just on broccoli i don't know what he's talking about he just picked up his 300 count and told me eric swan came to his daughter's birthday super strange very very weird to prove it to me picking up that like is this they were a newspaper that's awesome reading off it like blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like talking. And they're like, whoa. They're like, do you see something? It's like, read the newspaper. Just holding the sheets. That's wild.

It's horrible, but there's nothing I can do about it. So am I a piece of shit for enjoying that? Oh, no, no, no. Plus, this happened 45 years ago. So let's be realistic here. Yes. Is it bad? Do we feel terrible?

Absolutely. Is that crazy? It it's amazing that's insane that's wild that that happened at all in the on the on the earth here i wish i was there oh man that's sick right there if you're doing that he was talking to people who didn't exist oh no yeah really hallucinating bad handing out pink slips to phantom employees he was firing people fuck out of here literally he was handing people napkins telling them they were fired just people that were like visiting at the hospital like just visiting other people hey you're fired they were like from what i'm unemployed anyway had enough of you todd and your shit attitude yeah that's i don't know what you're talking about well that would be close at least could have gone with bill or you just heard me introduce myself you hear that yeah you messed it up got it wrong though that's what happens when you're reading the newspaper

off the sheets so he's firing invisible people sometimes not even people who existed sometimes people that were there and sometimes he'd just yell at the air and go god damn it you're doing a terrible job you're fired and hand the napkin to nobody that is awesome which is amazing yes yeah i look at that and i'm just like wow that's how i go out yeah i want to go i would hang out with that every day to see what happened my kids will visit me if i'm pulling that shit yeah they'll just be filming it your son will be filming it going i'm gonna be the biggest tiktok star ever with this shit because wow fuck some guy singing fleetwood mac i don't want to see that my dad reading the just literally reading the entire world report

section on the sheets is awesome this is incredible so he would do that he tossed and turned fidgeted um and then he kept i mean marie was there most of the time she would sleep in the chair next to him in the hospital bed um and uh you know but he just kept getting worse and worse and worse and they would treat him and he kept getting worse and worse and they didn't understand it and this happened over the course of a couple of days it got like from one thing to the next he was just i mean he was i'm kind of sick one day next day he was shouting out you know reading the funny pages off the off his pillowcase so literally what happened uh and then finally on uh i believe may 25th here he is uh i'm sorry may 27th he uh he dies in bed

just lying there with marie next to him in the chair. And the doctor was like, they didn't understand it at all. They didn't get it. It was just like, sometimes people don't take the treatment, but for it to progress this quickly was really beyond the scope of normal. They said patients don't usually die from hepatitis two days after they're admitted into the hospital. Right. Hepatitis is vicious. It's a slow killer, though.

It takes a long time. It's a very slow killer. Yeah, it takes a while. But they actually, so he requested an autopsy. The doctor asked the wife, do you mind if we do an autopsy? And Marie said, sure, go ahead. Knock yourself out. They do an autopsy, and it confirms that he did indeed die of hepatitis.

So they said, that's just weird. He indeed die of hepatitis so they said that's just weird he just died of hepatitis i don't know i'm you know swelling of the kidneys and lungs bilateral pneumonia and inflammation of the stomach and duodenum the cause of death was determined to be infectious hepatitis that's from the autopsy report it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership

to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime

cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener follow the generation y podcast on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to generation y ad free right now by joining wondery plus so that's some official shit right there what are you gonna do uh funeral goes down uh after that obviously and uh everybody's very sad frank's goddamn 43 years old right they're 45 years old and he was a everybody liked him he was supervisor down at the foundry had a lot of

friends his kids loved him he's the best man at his son's wedding i mean you know it's a very sad day for everybody in anniston here so a few weeks after that mar Marie gets a union foundry. He has a life insurance policy through work, through the foundry. So they pay out Marie $31,000. $31,145 they give her. That was built up in his life insurance account. It's probably a portion of his salary or a full year's salary. That might be what it is. It might be something like that.

That's probably a little much back then for a year. $31,000 in the 70s. Jesus Christ. That's like $200,000 or something. I don't think he's making that. That's probably a little much back then for a year. 31? 31,000 in the 70s. Jesus Christ. That's like 200 grand or something. I don't think he's making that. But I think that was every year it went up, the policy that you worked there. That's probably true. And he worked there since 1951.

It might be two-year salaries. Yeah, who knows what it is, but that's what it is. So that's his life insurance thing for her. So that's pretty much what she's got at this point. She has skills. She's a very good secretary. Everybody says that. She types fast. She's really good with people she's smart she knows what she's doing she can run business she's good stuff so she can you know make it on her own but she's got this little something to start out with which is good for her um she uh

people said though her she got really weird right around there right now real weird they said which was normal because yeah that's gonna happen like if you just had a kid and your body's going through changes you're gonna act strange people give you some a wide berth on that because it's natural right and with this if your husband dies especially unexpectedly and quickly of a weird sickness at 45 yeah like that's a and he's the breadwinner and you've got two kids and you still gotta figure out what to do even though one's off to college.

You've been with him since you were 18. Right. You got out of high school and married this guy so this is all you've ever known is your parents and then this guy.

So that's the only people you've ever lived with. Yeah. So it's just... It would be understandable for her to be a little bit distant. You know, out there

for a while here. But her stuff was really weird uh she they said they weren't normal grieving widow things that she did it was just weird shit every night she'd fall asleep on the couch with a crowbar next to her oh a crowbar really weird she was all paranoid and full of yeah which i don't know if that's going to protect you from hepatitis. No. She moved away. She moved from house to house in town. Yeah. Six addresses in four years.

In the same town? In the same area, yeah. Just moving all around. Always away, kind of always closer to the east side of Anniston, though, where she wanted to be, but never all the way over there

because she can't afford it, but always a little bit closer every single time. She would stare, they said stare in the mirror for hours at her reflection just stare in the mirror people thought you know that that's odd all the moving the crowbar staring in the mirror but nobody wanted to bring it up because they were like she's obviously going through something it's her husband. And back then, now it would be fine to be like, hey, I see you're struggling.

Like, you know, you're right. Like, that would be okay to do now. Man, that's a good friend, actually. Whereas back then, that was considered invasive and none of your business. And, you know, you're telling that person they're crazy. And they don't want, you know. It was a different thing back then. Mental health was way more of a private,

embarrassing, quote-unquote thing back then. Whereas now's isn't that fascinating right yeah don't talk to them about it go talk to everybody else about it yeah that's what they did yeah go talk to the fucking pastor about it yeah go don't go to her and be like can i help you that's what i mean don't go get medical help legitimate so it was difficult man so they didn't want to do that. Then the thing is they started, they found letters from Marie to Mandy, who is a, who she was saying it was an imaginary sister in Texas. Oh no. She made up an imaginary sister named Mandy. She doesn't have a sister named Mandy in Texas.

Nobody in her family lives in Texas either. ate up an imaginary sister named mandy she doesn't have a sister named mandy no in texas nobody in her family lives in texas either uh she has an imaginary sister in texas that she's writing letters that she's getting writing letters to awesome so it's a little bit weird and people are like okay like her you know a little bit strange she calls the cops a lot. Well, from 1977 to 1979, she made at least 60 calls to the Anniston police. 60. Wow. That's a shitload. You might as well just park somebody on her street because she's going to call eventually.

It's going to happen today. Yeah. She made at least 60 calls, all of them to complain about peeping Toms, extortion threats, weird fires that would pop up. There's multiple fires at her house um very strange one began in her bedroom closet oh and she was like it's a mysterious fire probably you set something on fire now like i said i don't know if this is if she needs attention because at this point her son is gone he's married and he's a preacher in georgia her husband's dead and her daughter at this point is 17 18 years old so what happens then right she has her own life she has

her own thing she's so she's empty nesting lighting the shit on fire yeah that's what i mean i think i i'm not positive but it seems like she's lonely and calling the cops and she wants attention from the cops possibly i mean i psychologically that makes sense but I'm not a doctor, so what do I know? Also, death threats, and she would report obscene phone calls as well. Obscene phone calls and death threats over the phone. So all of those things. At one point, the police actually set up a sting operation to catch whoever was calling her over and over.

They set everything up. They had equipment all set up and taps, and this was a big deal in 1978 this was like a giant machine and a thing and there was like four guys operating it keep them on the line for eight minutes eight minutes and we can find out the zip code he's in right okay another 15 and we can get it down to a city block okay great see gordon liddy's hiding in her closet if we then fly a plane above the that city block we might be able to get it down to a better possible location probably not but it's possible and if he does this 30 40 times we might get a license we can get it it's possible keep going so

the police officer said quote the day uh the day the equipment was on the calls would cease the day after the equipment was taken off the calls would start again oh interesting this guy's clever yeah uh very clever he's a mastermind um then it turns out a couple months a couple years after the money was there the money was all gone she spent all the money she ended up with an additional policy she ended up with about 42 000 altogether out of Frank's death. And it was all gone very quickly. And her son, Mike, said, I don't know where the money went at all. He told a relative.

I don't know what she did with it. Just spent it. She moved around a lot and bought crowbars, I guess. I don't know. So December 21st, 1975 is when Michael Hilly is ordained. And that was in the paper as well. And he's a pastor there or whatever he is, minister. April 1979.

Carol. Carol's 19 years old. Young Carol. She gets sick in church on Sunday in April of 1979. Yeah, normal. So she had been at a party the night before. She had a couple of Tom Collins and puff you know, puffed on a joint here. It took like two hits off a joint.

You know, whatever. You think maybe who knows what it is. They're scaring the shit out of me. I threw up. You threw up. I don't know what. I've only been to a Catholic church, but I don't know what. Do they have the smoke?

Probably not. No, there's no smoke in those churches. Okay. I was going to say, that shit will make you sick. But they pass a collection plate around and the judging from the people next to you when you only put a buck in there, that's enough to to make you sick i guess it'll make you a little nauseous so she said the nausea would come and go uh and then it would send it stayed and wouldn't go away so first it came and went and then would stay and then she would vomit for hours this day

by the end of the day she was puking for hours her mother ends up taking her to the emergency room where the doctors gave her some medicine and she you know some you know anti-nausea medicine quelled the whole thing for a little bit kept it down but then after a little bit of while the symptoms came back again after the medicine wore off they came back and they actually admitted carol to the hospital so this starts a period of the next four months of absolute sickness here. Carol's in and out of the hospital, back and forth. Her symptoms are usually the same.

Every time she ate, she threw up. Everything. Even Marie would buy jars of baby food. They could give people, and they have terrible ulcers. My mother, when I was little, had bleeding ulcers, and she had to eat baby food. She died for five minutes. It was to bring it was it was wild dude angela oh yeah when i was really young what what cause i was like five stress stress my god i was like five she was throwing up blood yeah it was like i called the i called the ambulance you see what you do to me trying

to feed you jay asked my address and i didn't know i was like i don't know i don't know i'm five i don't know i don't really know what my address is i remember i actually had to run outside and look at the number on the house and come back and tell them and yeah the ambulance came and they took her and they left me there what so my dad came and got me because you know i called him and he got me because the ambulance just left me there and then we went up there and yeah it was bad i found out later that she she died for a few minutes. That's horrifying. It wasn't good.

Yeah, it was a bad thing. It was worse than I thought it was. That's scary stuff. Bleeding ulcers. Bleeding ulcers. Very, very bad. Just wouldn't stop bleeding. So she had to eat baby food for like a year and a half, basically, of nothing but baby food.

I've heard of people having ulcers where they have to eat just bland shit like rice and chicken and no flavor. No salt. She was eating stage one bananas. Oh, boy. It was fucking wild. Not even the threes. Yeah. So Marie would bring her jars of baby food at the hospital to help try to see if she could keep that down.

And she couldn't even keep that down, which if you can't keep baby food down, I mean, that's the most mild thing there is. So the doctors gave her so many tests. No reason. They could not come up with a reason for the illness. So in August 1979, she's out of the hospital for a while. She spent time with a friend of hers named Eve Cole. Carol and Eve were pals, and they were hanging out together. And one afternoon, Eve was there and carol started throwing up again so she was just in pain on the sofa she was just you know holding her stomach and her friend said

that uh marie said she had something to stop the nausea and it was a hypodermic needle filled with a milky fluid marie's not a nurse she shouldn shouldn't be administering shots, I don't think. Eve turned her head and Marie injected it into Carol's hip. She said that Carol didn't feel nauseous after the injection. It helped her.

She said that she noticed that Carol told her that she noticed a tingling sensation and said she lost all the feeling in her fingers and toes which i don't know which is worse i'd rather be nauseous i think so by august 22nd the numbness in her hands and feet got worse and she gets readmitted into the hospital at this point she only carol's five feet tall she's very small like her mom and small built too her normal weight is about 109 pounds that's her regular weight she comes into the hospital at 80 pounds good lord 80 pounds yeah and she uh because of

her numbness she couldn't walk and could barely couldn't even open a milk carton because she had numbness in her hands and feet they did a ton of tests and could not find anything wrong so they end up shipping her to caraway methodist hospital in birmingham on the ninth floor which is their psychiatric ward because they think that this is psychosomatic what and that they also think that she's probably bulimic or anorexic because she's losing all this weight and not saying it so they think back then rather than treat they would just be like you're crazy and throw you in a fucking cheer up bitch cheer up skinny bitch and throw you in a fucking cheer up bitch cheer up skinny bitch and throw you in a thing so it was ridiculous so uh they did that they took her there

and for three weeks psychiatrist poked and prodded and could not find it she's fine she's not there's nothing wrong with her she's not mentally ill at all they're like she's fine she's a well-adjusted you know young lady she's fine there's no reason that she should be 19 and needs a sandwich get her one yeah that's what i mean so that then one night in mid-september she was in bed uh and she said uh uh she was in bed at the hospital and she said that uh um carol was in bed and marie reached into her purse and pulled out another needle and she told her daughter one time there was another little girl who couldn't walk. And this made her better. So she injected her with something else into her hip.

And she said at that point, her numbness got even worse. What the shit? Yeah. So Carol called her friend Eve and told her about the other shot there. And by the way, I should say it's it doesn't make a difference but it's how do you not mention this about a person eve has no arms what she's armless how did she has no i don't know how she lost her arms or whether she's born without arms she has no arms okay okay so how do you bitch to her about not being able to feel your hands exactly i guess

you just keep it to toes at that point i can't open this milk carton yeah me neither you fucking whiny bitch she can uh type with her toes like fast as shit though really she learned to like do everything with her feet because she has no arms that's awesome she's like a she's a spirit of a fucking you know she's an animal she's awesome so that's incredible yeah that's that's crazy i i don't know if i could do that imagine doing that i would the only thing i would learn to do is fire a shotgun into my mouth if I had no fucking arms. And I'm not saying that taking suicide lightly. If I had no arms.

Oh, I don't want to be here. I would lose my fucking mind. If someone has no arms right now and you're listening. Hats off. Hats off to you. Yeah, but I don't want you to do that. And I'm glad that you're persevering and you're much stronger and better than me. Let's just say that. I'd open my gun. That's what I want you to do that. And I'm glad that you're persevering and you're much stronger and better than me. Let's just say that.

I'd open my gun. That's what I'd learn to do is open my gun. Yeah, that would be the only way. Because I would be very. My gun's safe with my feet. That would be rough. How to type the keypad code to open it is the only typing I would do. Yeah.

So on September 18th, Marie had a meeting with Dr. John Elmore, who is Carol's psychiatrist. And he said maybe Carol's problem was heavy metal poisoning, possibly. Is there something she's doing that would cause that? Does she work somewhere that would cause that sort of thing? Lead, arsenic, something like that. Lead poisoning. Is she somewhere where there's a lot of lead paint? You know, whatever.

So he told Marie that he planned to run tests the next day to see if that's what it was so 5 30 that afternoon marie checks carol out of the hospital oh even though she's very sick and has a bunch of tests to take the next day impossible yeah drives her to a motel the next morning they were arguing all night and everything like that carol's sick of going in and out of hospitals. Marie then takes her to the University of Alabama Hospital in Birmingham. And when Marie and Carol arrived at the hospital, doctors had been told about everything there. As he examined Carol, as they're examining Carol, Dr. Brian Marshall Thompson notices on Carol small white lines on her fingernails, small little white lines on her fingernails.

They're called Mies lines, M-E-E-S. And they often indicate arsenic poisoning. Oh, yeah. So the doctor, Carol said at the time, the doctor looked at my fingernails. He saw white lines and said he'd seen it once before in medical school. He said, either you did it to yourself or someone tried to do you uh do you win and carol said quote the first thing i thought was mother yeah yeah so on september 28th she's released from the hospital she returns to aniston aniston and goes on crutches to see her mother she goes to see her in city jail because the day this happened carol is arrested

on bad check charges for writing four bad checks, writing a bad check at a furniture store for furniture. Furniture shopping while her daughter's in the hospital. Yeah. So that's so Carol crutches her way into the house, into the jail to see Marie. You're not buying a hospital bed for your daughter at the house. And shit. Yeah. You're an asshole.

You're an asshole you're an asshole all four of her bank accounts were overdrawn she found out anniston police were also investigating the uh the circumstances of carol's illness here so marie asked carol if the doctors ever found out what was wrong with her yeah she said quote arsenic mom arsenic poisoning and marie said quote and they think i did it don't they oh boy that's an odd thing that's like is this about the girl with the shirt that's a crime and sports reference but if a police officer stops a man like goes to his house and says are you so and so and you go is this about the girl with the shirt you're fucked yeah because that's not a good good

thing to respond uh he says she then says, quote, mother, I don't know. Sometimes people do things they don't remember doing. And Maurice had, quote, if I did it, I don't remember. Yeah. Interesting. So it's at this point, like I said, she's still locked up here. And this is when Anniston police detective Gary Carroll gets involved. And he's suspicious of all of this shit here.

And this is when it turns out that while she's in jail here, Frida Adcock, who is her sister in law, she ends up searching through the belongings that she that she has in their basement. Marie has belongings in Frida's basement. Got it. Searched through some of the belongings and also in another Aniston home owned by another relative that she has some stuff. On a shelf in a small back room in Carrie Hilly's home where Marie Hilly stored most of her possessions,

she found a black cosmetic case. Inside it was Marie Hilly's. She said this was her stuff. Inside it was uh in it was marie hillies she said this was her stuff uh inside it was a bottle uh half filled with clear liquid and it said in the bottle was arsenic so that's not good three weeks later her and her daughter searched boxes of marie's that were also in another place and uh after a box they they found in a box that was all the way in the back of something they found a paper sack containing three jars of baby food a spoon and a bottle of arsenic oh no in the form of rat poison oh no so baby food a spoon and rat poison just putting the rat food oh god in the baby food and taking it to the hospital and feeding it to her

to her daughter and injecting her straight with it. Carol testifies later on, and she'll say now, that her mother brought the baby food to eat at the hospital when she was there. So then this office, the detective Carol, not the daughter Carol, delves into Marie's past a little bit, finds out that the year before Carol became ill, Marie put life insurance on her for $25,000, which is weird on your child. Right. You don't expect that. That's a lot. It's a lot.

Yeah. Back then, too. He turned up a confidential letter dated September 21st from Mike Hilly to Calhoun coroner Ralph Phillips saying, quote, It is my belief that she injected my dad with arsenic the same way she did with my sister. So that's not good. That's the son. That's her son. So that's her saying that's a person. Yeah, both.

So anyway, meanwhile, like we said, they found the the Mrs. Frida Adcock was looking through and found a medicine bottle with the arsenic and the baby food and a bottle of Cowley's rat and mouse mouse poison. And obviously right on it, this bottle contains arsenic. So not great. Turned it all over to the detective who by then had found a bottle with arsenic residue in Marie's purse when they arrested her. They look through it a little further because when they arrested her, they didn't know what the fuck it was. But now when they were like looking for it, they were like, there's fucking arsenic in this bottle.

She had it on her in her purse the whole time. Perfect. Carol interrogates Marie in 1979 and says, quote, Marie, did you give her that poison? And he says she says, quote, no, Gary, I don't know. I don't know where you'd even get poison. I wouldn't give it to my own daughter. So she kept denying, denying. Then she admitted giving her daughter injections, but said they were Phenergen, Phenergen, I don't know, an anti-nausea medication.

Whatever. That's what she was saying it was. So October 3rd, 1979, they fucking, it's exhumation day. They're going to exhume Frank and make sure he died of hepatitis. Okay. Because they didn't ever test him for poison. So they're going to yank Frank out. On top of that, some other bodies are going to yank out, too.

Let's also pull up, who is this? Louise Frazier, who is, oh, I'm sorry, Carrie Hilly and Marie's mother, Louise Frazier. They died the year before, both of them, his mother and a relative of hers. And all three bodies had more than normal amounts of arsenic in them. What the fuck? But only Frank's had enough for pathologists to conclusively say that it was poison that killed him. Tests show that Frank's body contained more than 100 times the amount of arsenic normally found in a body that's a shitload of arsenic so she killed frank and

probably her mother and her mother-in-law as well wow um yeah she's and her daughter she's just poisoning everybody oh there's there's more too it's killing everybody at that birthday party oh you have no idea dude wait till you eric swan better watch out you think you're joking yeah wait till you hear oh boy yeah it's not good um also uh they made a an announcement the state laboratory and by the way nobody likes to to exhume people no that's they don't they don't want to they don't want those bodies ever come back no one likes to fuck with the death like in the homicide book david simon book that we've talked about seven million times they talk about this one case where they have to try to exhume a guy and the guy the guy doing it the detective is like a 25 year guy he's like a hardened

motherfucker and he after like three exhumations when they get the wrong person because the jesus the it was like the pauper grave and the guy was just burying him anywhere and then it turns out he did he buried a bunch of people in a mass grave and didn't want to say anything. Oh, no. So that's why they couldn't find him, but they kept pulling up the wrong guy. And it was like breaking this detective's spirit. Like, literally, he was like, I can't do this. I can't.

Like, I'm having nightmares about, like, fucking ghosts and ghouls and shit. He's like, I can't deal with this anymore. Crazy part about this is they were looking for a particular guy a guy named uh rayfield gilliard okay this is what they were looking for this one of this woman's woman's husband yeah she poisoned and killed and shot like all of her relatives that she had a life insurance on they pulled out like four people out of the ground before they gave up looking for him pulled out like four wrong people one of the people they pulled out happened to be the father of a guy they just arrested for murder two months earlier the guy had just died and now they had to

go to him and go hey yeah we just pulled your dad out of the ground by accident the guy was like you did that shit on purpose man you're trying to fuck with me and they were like no no really imagine being that guy you're like you did what we're like, you did what? We'll put him back. Don't worry. Yeah, we'll put him back. So it was pretty messed up. So anyway, they did do a press conference where the doctors did a press conference. And they said, quote, we are not saying this Frank Hilley's death was caused was a homicide. We're not even saying that arsenic was the cause of death.

We're simply saying that a significant amount of arsenic was found in the body tissues and uh they said any death from the hilly family will be looked at now the investigators have less trouble laying blame and you know putting quote labels on shit like homicide they uh they know what they're doing they said they determined the victims were given small doses of arsenic over an extended period of time so it wasn't alarming. They just seemed to get sicker over time which is normal. It eventually breaks down your nervous system. You lose control of your senses and you become unable to control your

body movements is what the doctor said about what happens there. The FBI agent that was investigating now also noted there was two arson fires at the Hilly house. One when Frank was still alive and the second was when Carol and her grandmother were in the house alone. So two fires that were set by somebody. So they're like, this has to be Carol doing some shit here.

One time in some of the investigators that went to the house after she had called the cops all the time, they went to the house, and afterwards, they became sick. What? Yeah. The agent said it's possible that someone had given them some type of poison. Also, there was a family that lived next door to her for years. The children were sick all the time, but the doctors could never find out why. How's she getting this shit into everybody? The family eventually moved, and the kids got well immediately when they moved. kids got better as soon as they moved because she's putting in food she's

putting in drinks she's putting a little little tiny bit in drinks you give a k everybody wants kool-aid you want a coke a little bit in there boom there you go remember that one case we did with the coke next door that's what they do and this is the same shit she's doing that they got well immediately those kids what is that it's i don't know what her fucking problem is so they did urine tests to detect any arsenic that were also that were ordered for everybody who's visited the hilly residence police who investigated i mean they just it was like everybody's probably she's who knows how many people she's been poisoning october of 79 she's indicted for the attempted murder of her daughter and then the murder indictment is going to come in January.

November 9th, 1979, she gets bailed out. By who? Okay. Leonard Roberts. Remember I said, remember him? One of her old bosses that would give her cash too. Ribbon company guy. Yep.

Marie found, couldn't find anyone to bail her out. It's $10,000 bond. Her family wouldn't do it. Finally, Leonard Roberts from Class Rib ribbon agreed to pay for it uh so yeah he's one of the richest and most respected men in anniston they said so they were a little bit like why is well because if she starts singing i don't want her telling her all of her dirt that's the thing it's really fucking strange so um anyway she's she's out here uh around uh at one point she's taken by her lawyer to the roadway inn in homewood a birmingham suburb you were like yeah i've been there that's gross hot stuff those are bad hotels those are terrible fucking hotels

they're the worst so bad they're always gross roadway inn always gross all right i've stayed in two in my life and regretted both times yeah that's one of those where you're like you just have to keep telling yourself it was 60 what do i expect 60 i mean obviously it's going to be disgusting both times i got them it was because everything else was sold out and i just had to sit there in that bed and just tell myself this is your fault you did this is as bad as austin yes that what was austin oh that was bad yes austin it was the same south by south they're about the same we drove there straight through in 15 hours and stayed in the worst hotel because it was all the money we had in the world and all that was available and literally all you know there was nicer ones

available you're right but we didn't have 400 we had 89 we had we were like we can barely afford this like we were counting out cash yeah it was really touch and go shit was not good and then the guy was because we were paying cash they're like we're gonna need an extra hundred dollars we'll get back to you in the morning no i don't i don't have that that's just not what i have is 89.95 like your sign says that That's what I have. I got that for you. Don't know what to tell you. I'm going to need you to be a nice guy right now. Be cool.

Be cool. So now she checked into there, and eight days later, her lawyer, Wilford Lane, goes back to the hotel room, and she's not there. Finds it empty with a note reading, quote, Lane, you led her straight to me. You will hear from me with no signature. Okay. So basically, Lane called the police and said that Marie had been kidnapped. You led her right to me.

Okay. So two nights later, the home of her aunt, Margaret, was robbed. Clothes were robbed. ID was taken. Luggage was taken. And a collection of silver dollars that were in her car all the people you know the same same stuff that every robber loots out of a house it's pretty obvious who did it clearly and it says quote do not and there's a note too quote do not call the police we will burn you out if you do we found what we want your car is in gadsden we we your car is in

gadsden that's what they said we found all the luggage we're the samsonite band and then yeah and then it literally after that it says that we won't bother you again now okay so they're happy got it so your car is over there yeah uh the handwriting matched the same of the note at the roadway in by the way so um yeah she is charged with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution for murder in absentia obviously she's out there uh yeah so the fbi starts a coast-to-coast manhunt 28 other federal divisions all this type of shit they put an apb out five foot 110 pounds, brown hair, scar on her knuckle. That's it.

Straight vicious. That's it. 19 states are searched thoroughly here for this woman, they say. FBI search is conducted in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia, Maryland, New York, Connecticut, Nebraska, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Washington. My God. They're going around.

Any possible clue they might have. January 1980, she's indicted for the murder of her husband, which she's not around. February 1980, in Fort Lauderdale. Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Remember John Homan from up in New Hampshire? Well, he's down in Fort Lauderdale at that point in time. And this is in February of 1980. And he meets a small animated little brunette at a bar down there.

Oh, yeah. A little firecracker. Yeah. Yep. And some scarred up knuckles. Yeah. He named Robbie Hannon is her name. Yep.

And he owns a boat building company in Fort Lauderdale. And he just got out of a marriage. He just got a divorce. He's attracted to Robbie, and they began hanging out. You know, she tells him that she comes from a tragic past. She says she's 35. She's from Texas. She told him that she lost both her children in a car accident.

Both of them. Yeah. He said that he had an alcoholic mother that died when he was young and he was shy and recently divorced. Yeah, there's two-parent trauma in a bar. Yeah, that's what they were doing. And he said that she was soothing to him because she was so nice to him and she talked to him. By March, they move in together. Hell yeah.

So very quickly. Now, Robbie, the new lady in his life, gets a job as a secretary in an accounting firm in West Palm Beach. They don't stay long, though. In October, she and John leave Florida for New Hampshire, where John's brother Peter lives. Now, Marie and John rent a little house in Marlow, New Hampshire. John finds work at Findings Inc., which makes small jewelry parts, and she finds work as well. She works for a while in different places. The central screw company,

which sounds like a, a eighties porn. Yeah, this is a central screw company and you show up looking for some screws, film that shit. So the general manager here, uh, said he was impressed with her work.

He hired her on a permanent basis as a customer sales rep. We thought Ronnie was terrific. He said he never checked out her references because she named a Texas company that was no longer in business as her last employment. So check on the point of calling that she seems like a fine young lady. What the hell? He said that he she name was Robbie Homan here. Yeah, Robbie Homan. And then she resigned in Augustust of 1981 to attend to quote

personal matters in texas three months later she came back though and asked for her job back and got rehired uh she told everybody at work about her tragic life she grew up in a wealthy texas family yeah like a la dallas basically which had just come out. Yeah. So she complained of severe headaches all the time, too. All the time. She said she's had an inheritance that she'd eventually get when relatives died. So that's what she was waiting on. And she's got these headaches all the time. And she said she's been to so many doctors to try to find out what it is.

And no one knows what it is. Just headaches. Yeah. Maybe migraines. Some of her co-workers thought she was pushy and you know kind of a pain in the ass but most of them really liked her and thought they felt bad for her and uh you know and the men also liked her a lot all the men thought she was very nice and she was real nice to the guys she got along better with the men than the women even

though the women liked her too uh she would get more involved stories as she went on. She told people she was dying of a rare blood disease that caused her body to make too many red blood cells. Is that a thing? I am sure it is, but I mean, she didn't have it. She and John got married here, and she would leave him alone from time to time telling people she was seeking treatment from various out-of-town specialists. Okay.

Got to blast all those red cells out. Yeah, she'd have to go from going to the Mayo Clinic in Minneapolis from going here. Ron Oja, who's the vice president of sales and marketing at the Central Fastener Company, said, quote, she was an excellent worker. Being wealthy was a very important thing for her. She craved status. She was always one of the first ones to the bank on payday. She always gave the impression of wealth. She was classy, very classy.

So September 82, she resigned again to seek treatment in Europe, telling coworkers that this blood disease was just overcoming her. She also began to talk about her twin sister, Terry. So she's got a twin sister, Terry Martin. And she lives in Texas. She talks to her all the time. She said that she would occasionally shut her door to her office at work, saying she was going to call her sister, Terry, who was having marriage problems. And she needed some advice.

And only your sister can give you. Your twin sister is the person you're going to turn to for that. And everyone understood that nobody cared she uh she said that um uh she was going to texas to get some kind of treatment and terry was going to take care of her while she was down there as well make sure she was okay she said she was making one last attempt at this treatment and uh she said that it was making her more and more ill. And this is my last shot. And if this doesn't work, I'm just going to croak. Just cashing out.

She said her husband was going to stay in New Hampshire while she went down there. And she's gone for six weeks. Six weeks. Okay? So, yeah. She's complaining about her health. Everything like that. Now, she would call him occasionally from Texas. And both she and Terry would talk to him, the twin sister and everything.

Then on November 9th of this year, Terry calls John and says, I have bad news. Robbie died. Oh, no. Poor Robbie's dead. Yeah. His blood disease overtook her, and she's dead, and her body's been donated to science. Okay. That's what she wanted. She's in the body'sook her and she's dead and her body's been donated to science okay she's in the bodies exhibit and she's traveling the country she wanted because she wants them to be able to find out what's wrong with her you know it's like the nfl players

shoot themselves in the chest or they commit suicide because they want to fuck their brains up more so yeah she wants to be the body playing badminton. Yep. So that's it. So they're donated to science. And a few days later, a blonde woman comes to visit him, John Homan, in New Hampshire. And it's Terry. Okay. She's blonde. And she says, I'm Robbie's twin sister, Terry. It's nice to meet you.

They put up Robbie's obituary in the paper on November 13th. Terry moves in with John to take care of him and help him recover from this. She gets a job at a book bindery. Officials at the Cheshire Employment Agency in Keene, New Hampshire, said they found her a temp job as an executive secretary at the Book Press, a publishing firm, in November 82. In Keene. In Keene, yeah.

Cheshire President Robertbert marsh said uh her boss at who was her boss at book press was so impressed with her skills that he offered her a permanent job on december 6th about two weeks after she started terry martin's killing it her secretarial skills were excellent they told her she he said quote she's very beautiful the southern drawl type person very congenial very impressive there you go fascinating yep said uh you know that's how it was she's like this is this is great uh now john would come to the plant on occasion and uh after the death of his wife he'd go back to the screw factory there just to talk to people uh and he would bring terry the twin sister around right to explain

to the friends how she died because they all wanted to know what happened and you know the last days of of poor of poor robbie they said the resemblance was you know their twin sisters they're like that's amazing it's just a blonde and brown version unbelievable they have the exact same dna that's why yeah crazy right they said everybody was standing around this is the boss quote everybody was standing around crying and she said robbie told me so much about all of you can i see the desk where she worked at and set and sit in her chair like you tom she told me you like pretzels yeah here's some probably brought them for you i know so much about all of you so all right yeah one day she went by herself to the texas screw company to see her sister's

friends and the boss ron osha started becoming a bit suspicious yeah so he said quote i called texas to check out the sacred heart church and tyler where the services were held there was no record of a sacred heart church and tyler and no record of anybody by the name of robbie homan dying her body was supposed to be given to the medical research research institute in dallas but there was no medical research institute in dallas the obituary said robbie was born in buffalo new york but the bureau bureau of vital statistics said they had no record of her birth or anything braun dug deep god damn ron turned into fucking billy jensen over here and started got a shovel out and started going to town on that shit damn ron is in the wrong line of work yeah he should at least have a podcast if not more investigator at minimum wow

so he called the police and they brought the fbi in and uh yeah that's that's how it was um that's what happens when you already know where the bathroom is in a building you've never been in. Yeah. So they get to him and they go, hey, we have your they arrest her. Basically, they go there. And when they said, hey, we don't the FBI showed up and we're like, yeah, we don't think you are who you say you are. And she was like, I'm Audrey Marie Hilly. I'm from Alabama and I'm wanted.

She just spilled it immediately. They didn't know that much. They just knew she wasn't who she said she was. She could have made something else up. We're on to you, but we don't know what we're on to. Well, I'll tell you. Yep. So after she's arrested, she called her son, who she hasn't talked to in years.

Right. And she had disappeared for three years. She said hello. He said hello. First thing she said is quote is carol still a homosexual nice talking to you mom yeah jesus christ so the arsenic work on that right uh the detective hubbard even said that uh yeah hilly paid so such close attention that robbie hannon smoked one brand of cigarettes and read books all

the time or as terry martin smoked a different brand of cigarettes and never read she watched tv all the time unbelievable she made a completely different fucking human being yeah uh they said it's crazy they said that it was just gossip around the town of that she looks just fucking like her right he's walking around with her twin sister now what is happening it was just gossip around the town of that. She looks just fucking like her. He's walking around with her twin sister. Now, what is happening? It was just so weird. January 1983. Yeah, they told John Homan and he said, quote, there must be some mistake.

I don't understand what you're talking about. This is crazy. But no, they said, yeah, that's not Robbie Homan. That's not Terry Martin. That's actually a completely different fucking person, not your wife or her sister. And you're lucky to be alive. It's a woman yeah how you feeling you nauseous at all so uh yeah this is crazy the fbi agent david steel went to a factory near marlo to question her and uh as he she walked to the parking lot he stopped her and he just said we know you're not who you say you

are who are you and she said i'm audrey marie hilly from allabama which was pretty quick but she was you know top 10 fbi most wanted list really absolutely yeah she was up there that is incredible um yeah they wanted her bad she was and she could be killing how much she's poisoning everybody so uh when home they told john homan and he said quote it blew my mind no shit yeah did it uh he said he was humiliated as well i'm sure news came out that he's the dumbest man alive okay you know your wife yeah you know twins i've known lots of identical twins not lots but a few sets they have little differences some quirks and that's with clothes on right so they're nude you know what i'm saying life does things to different people there's different things there's

no way that does it identically that's what i'm saying you would know at that point what's going on there so yeah he said he felt like an idiot uh basically because she lost five pounds and dyed her hair blonde and came up there and now she's a different person and he was like i bought that he we think or he was in on it we don't we don't know he said quote i felt they were two separate people their actions were different there was nothing to tie the two together except that they're fucking identical in every way including scars and identifying marks you idiot um yeah so the twin there um jesus christ that's fucking Apparently, what she had done was she left in September 82. Marie, as Robbie, as the sick one, stayed in Texas for a few days.

On September 23rd, she went to Pompano Beach, Florida. That day, she had her hair bleached, then went to an employment agency seeking work under the name Terry Martin. By the end of the day, she had a secretary job at Solar Testing Services, worked there for six weeks, She had a secretary job at Solar Testing Services, worked there for six weeks, told her boss, Jack McKenzie, about her twin sister, Robbie, who's gravely ill. Who doesn't exist. Yeah. And she said her sister had recently suffered a stroke and then developed cancer, which it's one of those cancer strokes where you have a stroke and it kicks cancer right into gear. It really kickstarts it. It kickstarts it up.

That's what happens. And Terry felt responsible for her and then she said that she left in mid-november uh told the boss that her sister had died and uh you know he had she had to take care of stuff and she'd be in new hampshire and she's going to stay there and thank you for your kindness yeah that's when she went back and went hi i'm sister terry that's when november 10th is when she called John to break the news that Robbie was dead and she's coming back so yeah all those calls

they go into that two of the officers by the way this is the more poison thing I want to talk about at least two of the officers from those investigations had

complained of severe stomach cramps and nausea after drinking coffee that she gave them okay so it's very specific to that uh also uh linked to the chronic unexplained illness of various neighborhood children one playmate 11 year old sonja gibson died of unknown causes in 1975 but uh the autopsy revealed elevated but not

like the other people more than she should have but not enough to call it a murder when they exhumed her in 1983 but probably but there was still they were pulling little girls out of the ground in 1983 still from this fucking monster that's the problem it's they've interrupted she it's crazy yeah um her son mike also had symptoms that doctors attributed to the stomach flu that stopped abruptly when he moved away to attend seminary school she's poisoning her fucking son to her whole family just everybody a little bit at a time i don't know if it's a control thing i don't know what that is so uh june 1983 is her trial uh carol obviously is going to testify quite a bit she's on the witness stand uh for hours she said her mother gave her three injections

carol testified saying that they would either stop her nausea or help her walk again that's what she would tell her her mother would tell her with the last two shots she said that she was that's when she was at the hospital she told uh her daughter to promise not to tell anyone about the shots because they were at the hospital. I guess after the injection, she said, she said she felt tingling in her legs and would lose sensation in her hands, feet and ankles and all that sort of shit. So they say that is like the advanced stages of arsenic poisoning.

When you start to lose muscle control halfway through her testimony, this is insane. Defense attorneys reposition their table so that it faced the jury instead of the judge's bench why would you do that really weird after the rearrangement marie's facial expressions as her daughter testified became visible to the jury they wanted her wanted the jury to see her facial expressions as she this happened so the defense attorney wilford lane asked her questions the daughter carol about drug use and homosexual liaisons quote unquote okay uh yeah so are you ganging on drugs or what

is that what's wrong with it what happens you guys do your scissoring and then you get all arsenic mix when you rub two of them together creates poison creates poison. Didn't you read the Bible? For Christ's sake, two vaginas equal poison. Right. That's how it is. It's like when you put salt on a slug. It just don't go together. That Y chromosome, when you put your tongue in it, it creates the arsenic. If you put the marijuana into it at that point, it just expands it then.

Our whole body going to shut down. Marijuana and pussy juice is what causes death in young people. That's the only thing. Is it XX? It's a male? I don't remember. XX is a woman. Okay.

Never mind. Y chromosome is the male. God damn it. Yeah. So, holy shit. Okay. This is fucking ridiculous to ask her that. Carol acknowledged that at one point, on one occasion, she smoked marijuana.

And at one point, she discussed with her friends the possibility that the drug might be causing her illness. Oh, boy. If you're smoking shit dirt weed in 70s Alabama, it's not causing anything. But usually weed's not laced with arsenic. No, and maybe a slight headache and slight munchies, but you'd barely get high off of that shit. Are you kidding me? It's not going to make your hands numb. He asked her if she attended pot parties.

Oh, boy. Do you attend pot parties? Who's ever called it that? People in the 50s. Right. This is like 1983. But it's Alabama, so it's roughly the 50s. So, yeah, told the jury in response to a question from Lane that she stopped living with a roommate who was a heavy drug user and was known to be a homosexual.

So she said she left that arrangement. She didn't like that. Carol acknowledged suicide attempts at one point. How would you not? Your mother was trying to poison you for years for fuck's sake, involving a mild overdose of five tylenol that's how she's gonna do it that's a cry i mean you if you if you eat a whole bottle of tylenol you won't die now but in like two days you'll drop dead that's how it works five five tabs of tylenol is too much and it might that's a cry for help yeah that's i took a little too much maybe we'll pump your stomach that's what

you take when you think you're having a heart attack. Yeah. It's also what you take if your neck's all fucked up from a bunch of car accidents and you need to record a podcast to take like six Advil liquid gels. It's different than Tylenols. It's not a suicide attempt. You can't take that many Tylenol, though, because they will eat your body up. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Five is probably short. That'll give you bleeding ulcers, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Five is probably. I'll give you bleeding ulcers, too.

Yeah. Yeah. She said. Yeah, absolutely. She said the attempt was made shortly after she was admitted to the mental hospital because she knew she wasn't fucking shouldn't didn't belong there. She's being poisoned and they're telling her that she's crazy. Imagine that.

She's like, I'm fine. I want to eat and I throw up. My mom's giving me. What is happening? Holy shit. That has to be frustrating. With a white boost. Yeah. How do you, I don't know.

Right in the ass like I'm Hulk Hogan. What's happening? I get it. I mean, I understand trusting your mom, but boy, oh boy. If my mom came to me and was like, I want to give you this shot. Are you out of your fucking mind? Yeah, this is fucking ridiculous. So then comes Priscilla Lang.

They call her in the in the atlanta journal constitution quote a streetwise blonde who was awaiting trial on charges of forgery and theft yeah yeah so she's she's cool she came into the leather jacket smoking by the description she's got street smarts because she's smoking she Yeah, she's a... Okay. So they first... She said that she had been Marie's cellmate in the county jail for three and a half months. And Marie claimed when they first met that she had no idea why she was being charged with murdering her husband and trying to poison her daughter. A few weeks later, though, Marie changed her story. Her sister...

She said then her sister-in-law did the poisoning. Not her. It was all her sister-in-law. She said, not her. It was all her sister-in-law. She said, but then something happened that shocked her. Priscilla, that is the streetwise blonde tough quote. She was having another one of those headaches.

All of a sudden she changed into a different person. She became more violent and cursed a lot. Then she went into talking about the arsenic poisoning and how she had how quote she done it all and that she killed all of them she was talking about how she killed her mother-in-law and her husband and attempted to poison her daughter she said she took arsenic poison and put a little bit of it in their food a little at a time priscilla testified that marie said that she quote did it because her daughter was a lesbian and had been from the age of 13 or 14 and that her husband and her husband's family all sided with Carol. You know, they were nice people who were like, we love you no matter what you do.

And she was like, I got to poison all these people. How dare they? That's why she did it. That's what she said. She said she was ashamed of her daughter and hated her for being that way. That's what she told Priscilla. Oh, my God. That's probably not the best thing to say in jail, by the way, because in jail, ladies tend to like ladies.

Well, yeah. Not a good crowd to bring that up in is what I'm getting at. It's not so that they like him. It's just that they're there. It's a less. I've been watching Orange is the New Black. They do it a lot. No, it's way more. Well, they're also a different. Yeah. They do it a lot. No, it's way more.

Well, they're also a different. Yeah. Men's prison and women's prison are way different. Yeah. Yeah. Also, women are a little more fun to do that way. Yeah. Well, thing is, women, even criminal women are human.

Yeah. And then men aren't. No. Especially when they get in that environment where there's no women around. That's when they become fucking like animals. Yeah. You know, whatever. get in that environment where there's no women around they that's when they become fucking like animals yeah you know whatever so anyway at the closing arguments after the closing arguments the judge recessed the trial and uh marie stood and stared across the courtroom at carol yeah and

mouths i love you at her fuck you so then she smiled and she motioned for carol to come over and talk to her huh yeah fuck you talking about carol said quote no mom i can't and wouldn't do it i can't do that the jury deliberated for three hours before reaching her the verdict it's not very long three hours i mean how much time do you need they find her guilty on both charges and uh yeah sentencing is the judge i mean imagine looking at this woman with everything you right marie robbie terry whatever the fuck your name is ma'am yeah may fuck off yeah life in prison plus 20 okay so that's not life without that's life plus 20 so that's gonna be you know whatever the alabama life is say 45 40 plus 20 25 year parole, maybe if you're looking at it in terms of good behavior and shit like that.

Well, it's a little bit different than that. OK, so in jail, John sticks with her. John Homan. What? Not even the person he's on. Yeah, John. Come on, John. They do a newspaper, an interview with him.

I think it's the Aniston star where he is eating a bowl of grits at the Waffle House in Aniston. Gross. And they call him a thin, balding man. They said he stayed in Aniston after the trial. He was living in a hotel and working as a tool and dye maker at the foundry because she's in jail there and he wants to stay close to her. He's working at the business that her husband... It's a different business. It's not the foundry. It's not the foundry not that one yeah it's a different one okay uh they said that jesus christ he said

quote when this is all over maybe me and marie will write a book we'll tell the true story oh john he says uh he said well you've known her people told him well you've known her as three different people what do you call her and he said i've called her robbie i've called her terry and then i have to then i had to start calling her marie you know because that's her fucking name jesus christ he went on to say that he didn't believe marie poisoned anybody he said that she was the innocent victim of family hatred at the top rungs of aniston society the top rungs of aniston society uh before the trial he told newspaper reporters that his wife left him and returned as her twin because he want she wanted to protect him from too much grief if she had to run again that's why she didn't want to run away she was

protecting him that's what she told him so every sunday at 5 30 in the morning he gets up and drives for almost two hours to with tumka to see marie during the prison's weekly visiting hours sucker on his forehead with a stamp for sure he felt dumb and duped and like the dumbest man on earth and then he continues it john he said quote i'll tell you why she did it yeah he said uh that's what he's quote i'll tell you why she did it for a four-letter word people don't use that much anymore love everything she did she did for love except for poison her children and her husband 1985 is her appeal with the alabama supreme court and uh she is looking for a new trial she's a lot of this is on evidence used in her conviction was

illegally seized is what she says because she says she was arrested with the purse and then they use the purse later but that purse wasn't a search from the original arrest for from the right arrest it's a search from her check thing so that shouldn't have been held in the fucking blah blah blah meanwhile there's poison in your purse right also

she said that none of this stuff that that adcock woman found free to adcock found all the baby food and the spoon and all that shit. None of that should count either because that's a legal search and seizure. But it's not because the police didn't fucking do it. This lady went into a house that she had access to legally and searched through some shit that was sitting there and then turned it over to the police, which is if the police said, hey, we're not allowed to do it. But if you want to poke around, we're not allowed to do it. But if you want to poke around, that's not technically legal. But she did it.

No one said that anyone told her to. So that's legal. Whether she likes it or fucking not. At that point, the defense claims, quote, Frida Adcock had no right to seize the evidence admitted into the case. Further, it claims that the police testing of the bottle constituted a warrantless search, which, no, it was just a private citizen handing over shit to the police. That was evidence. That's all. So both searches cited by the defense turned up small vials of arsenic, obviously, and also some private letters and all sorts of shit like that.

They find her. Keep fucking off. That's not going to work. We got you, like, dead to rights like five times so somehow i don't know how by 1986 they start giving her work furloughs or not work furloughs weekend furloughs like just get out of free good behavior earns her several one day passes from the prison where she can just go out and leave and come back okay okay uh she always arrives back on time a murderer always comes a fucking murderer poisons everybody top 10 america's

most wanted probably they think she tried to poison police officers who were investigating imaginary crimes at her home in two years we're letting her out yeah um good behavior uh she always arrived back on time until february 19th 1987 yeah when they give her a three-day furlough and uh she was declared a fugitive on sunday when she failed to show up for her furlough back again uh yeah she she was there her husband was her sponsor there john homan i guess they got officially married to the real person they arrived back at his apartment for uh that evening that she got out and uh he she uh marie called the calhoun county sheriff to tell him she was in town which she has to do required by her court and prison rules that was the only contact she made with local authorities

the following day uh she left his apartment and told her told john that she would meet him at the waffle house in a little while. She never came when she was supposed to, so her husband contacted the sheriff to say, hey, I'm not involved in this. The sheriff called prison officials to warn them that she had disappeared. She was officially declared a fugitive that afternoon, and a statewide search was started. She left a note saying she was going to canada that's what she said so the note investigators said i mean you know what the fuck they said that she could be anywhere

they said she could be living a life she changes her personality to fit her surroundings the fbi said quote she can be kind laughing considerate and then brutal and hateful we believe she's living in a world with make-believe friends and enemies. When she reads this, if it's the real Audrey Marie Hilly, she will probably change her personality when she realizes that she is accused of doing something. It's not likely I'll arrest Marie Hilly, an agent said. He said an agent in another state will. But the real Marie Hilly reads this.

She will likely change her personality and relocate or get careless and hopefully will find her. They said that, you know, they're hoping she contacts friends and relatives or something, something like that. And look for a small woman, but she's going to be having a different personality, probably. So this keeps going on. They said that she'll probably be working in a respectable job. She'll be doing secretarial work they said quote she's a perfectionist and wouldn't take a job that low rates her she'll be living in a living a good life she will be in a beauty shop at least twice a week she's always dressed nice

and her appearance was pleasant always yeah that's what they say february 26 1987. This is in the Blue Mountain area here, less than a mile from where she was raised. A woman named Sue Craft spots somebody out on their porch. It's a rural porch out there. It's freezing cold out February, like 40 degrees and rainy. Terrible outside. And this person, Sue Craft, sees what she calls a grim, ghastly figure on the porch. Oh, boy. She says, Sue says.

Alabama, even. Yeah. Quote, I really didn't like looking at her. She was scary. There were spots of mud on her face. Her bangs were stuck to her forehead. She had long fingernails like she had never, like she had never wrung out a mop. She had thin hands and this and the little finger on her right hand wouldn't straighten out.

It was double bent. She was so dirty, she talked like her tongue was thick. She apparently had been crawling around the woods. This is Marie. She had been crawling around the woods for the last four days. Wow. It's been pouring rain for the last four days and at night it's been in the low 30s. Oh my.

She's been soaking wet. So she shows up on a stranger's porch. Yeah, on a stranger's porch. She's been crawling around the woods by her home where she lived. Oh, my. She had nowhere else to go. The people here on her porch covered her with a painter's drop cloth, but left her outside in the wind and rain while they called the police.

Stay out here. Yeah. You're gross. What the fuck, man? She's a tiny lady. She's not going to run amok you can at least bring her inside where they don't know i don't want to near any arsenal i mean i mind my own business if i see her out there i'm like i don't know unless they knock i'm not saying

maybe she'll leave maybe uh they said that her hands were pinkish purple i would feel terrible man she had mud on her face and her clothes were soaked they said that uh this the police said that uh she told them that her car had quit running a few miles away, but couldn't tell them her name. That's what she said. She said, I walked and crawled some of the rest of the way. And then they the people at the house said, well, the police are on the way. And the last thing she said was OK. And then the ambulance came.

Rescue workers took her. She's conscious when the ambulance arrives, but suffers a convulsion in the ambulance and loses consciousness. The spokeswoman for the Regional Medical Center in Anniston says she suffers a heart, a cardiac arrest upon arrival at the hospital, and they try to raise her body temperatures, but are unsuccessful. And she dies. Wow. She dies right there. Died of exposure to the element. Exposure.

Hypothermia. Unbelievable. She found dead. Yeah. Cause of death is, I element exposure hypothermia unbelievable she found dead uh yeah cause of death is uh i think hypothermia and uh that's that they said they worked on her for hours um that was how it was um one of the people who worked at the hospital said quote a nurse said it's sad to me that she died knowing what her life was i don't guess she was no christian and you know where people that people go that don't okay so she's saying she's going to hell the district attorney has a more interesting thing bob field he said it seems to be an

anticlimactic way for someone who was the great escape artist to die this goes against everything she's done in the past the biggest escape artist in this area in 10 years and what does she do she ends up crawling around in the woods right yeah they said that she just didn't probably didn't plan her escape as well this time it was kind of a spur of the moment maybe um the police gary carroll guy said quote this wasn't this was ill planned or not planned at all he said normally she's got an elaborate plan and can pull off a smooth escape this time it was spur of the moment and she got a little desperate i think so yeah um they at three months after that they're doing a full investigation on the furlough system of how the fuck did we let this woman out of the jail ever for five minutes right for this to happen anyway like what the hell are we doing here um yeah they said that that people saw her while she was in Anniston when they did things.

She was walking around, but nobody knew what was going on and nobody really paid attention. February 22nd of the next year, 1988, a year later, they talk about, you know, have we found out where she went or what she did during this time? Did she try to get away? And county sheriff here, Roy Sneed, said, quote, we don't know anything more than we knew at the time zero from the time she walked away from the motel uh we still have no concrete evidence of her whereabouts till she showed up on that porch that was it um yeah there's been a bunch of fucking books by the way published on this but i didn't read any of them the way, because a lot of them were like partially fictionalized. But all the books, they were all called like

Husband Killer, Black Widow. All those books are like very over, they're just over-dramatized. The story doesn't need that. They just put their own shit in it always. And I don't like that, especially when I can go back and look through a million newspaper articles and court documents

and get exactly what happened. I don't really need any of the other shit, so I don't need somebody's, some asshole's opinion. So, yeah, that's how it worked. 1994 in July. So some time has gone by. She's been dead for six years, seven years. Carol puts an ad in the paper selling Marie's's prison artwork what yeah that carol that carol

the daughter yeah that she tried to kill um she said from 83 to 87 uh she rediscovered her hobby of painting her daughter sell is selling one of them she said quote i can't afford to get it framed it's a 56 by 36 inch painting of a forest scene that's a lot of painting fucking huge wow she said it's quote it's just hanging around she put a classified ad in the aniston star star seeking a buyer for her mother's work uh she said you know her mother's pretty notorious and uh whatever uh as people uh uh it's signed at the bottom by her and all that she said quote when she was in prison she didn't have anything to do. For somebody who never really painted before, she was fairly good.

And she said that she was interested in drawing long before she went to prison. She remembers how her mother would sketch while they were sitting in church. Yeah, she's paying attention. She would draw a picture and challenge her daughter to copy it. When she went to prison, art became her main entertainment. She did oil painting and had dozens of pencil drawings, watercolors, and pictures done by her mother as well. All of them were signed Marie Homan.

She's married to John there. She even did one especially for the daughter she tried to kill there, Carol, and signed it, quote, with love from mom. Oh, boy. Don't touch it, though. It might be poisonous. It'll leak through your fingers,

some sort of CIA fucking murder technique. Yeah, she said the time when her mother was painting represented some of the best years of their relationship. They never talked about her mother's crimes, though, she said while she was in jail there. She said she had to come to terms with what her mother had done and is still scared for her.

She said that love is one of the reasons she's selling this picture. She said, quote, she did them and she's still my mom. She's not around to do them anymore. That's that. It's three bucks, like big deer, male deers, three bucks bolting from a forest toward a lake

on a big giant canvas here surrounded by trees and shit like that i don't know it never they didn't follow that up so the aniston star had a lot of uh pieces here and there kind of fill-ins and the atlanta journal constitution article by hugh merrill was a great very great detailed article encompassed all the court docs and awesome everything else interviews they really did a thorough job on that so good job by them and that everybody is why we had to go back to aniston alabama again because could you find a crazier fucking story than that i dare you fbi had to go back so did we that's what i'm saying we all have to go back to aniston eventually if you like that show damn

it tell us about it please i kind of want one of those artworks that's the only person that did something terrible that i kind of want it yeah right because it's just weird it's ridiculous tell us about it get on apple podcast five stars that purple icon helps us out a lot we have no fucking idea why but it does help us out so please do that go to shut up and give me murder.com right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder related everything is there listen to crime and sports if you haven't this week charles barkley was our subject so you've heard of him and man did he do some crazy shit hear about him throwing someone five foot two through a window a plate glass window it's pretty entertaining if nothing else so check all of that out also listen to ps i hate this movie over the

weekend on top of all of that you definitely want to become a Patreon supporter. You want to be a patron. And the reason for that, by the way, Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. You want to get all the wonderful bonus episodes this week. And by the way, you get all of the bonus episodes, Crime and Sports, Small Town Murder, everything. So this week, Crime and Sports, Small Town Murder is going to be heavy backstory on the I-5 killer, Randall Woodfield, who's a horrible serial killer who also played briefly for the Green Bay Packers. And we covered back on that. Drafted by him. Drafted by him.

We have all sorts of background information. That's crime and sports. And on Small Town Murders bonus, we are going to do Thanksgiving murders. We're going to do when the holiday just was too much for people and they lost their goddamn shit. You know, when you get upset, so did these people. Live vicariously through these people who slaughtered their whole family or something don't you do it yeah live just be like ah that's what it would be like okay well the prison part's bad yeah so there you go do all of that check it out and uh you can find everything like that and get a shout out at the end of the show where jimmy will butcher your name all of that at patreon.com

slash crime in sports and if you just want to have good karma and have your name mispronounced at the end of the show as one of our beloved producers you can do that very easily over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com that said damn it it's crazy it's thanksgiving it's we are in the states you know it's thanksgiving it's a holiday so uh tell me who i am thankful for jimmy it's very clear yeah i'm thankful for these people tell me who they are this week's executive producers are adam sorber jordan bennett amanda mcpherson matthew reed stacy stevenson chris nelson emily roberts melissa turner happy birthday also preston letterman larry, it's Terry from Portland.

Do you remember Terry? Oh, I know Terry. We do. I know Terry. Terry's a good dude. Miss you, Terry. What's up, Terry? Vanessa Castillo, Christina Hayden, Rio with no last name,

Zach Buffalo, Tim Root, and Jesus, John Beccanina. Beccanina. Hey. You know Jimmy's going to screw that up. Other producers this week are thomas smith luane alshake uh janette what janet damn it zaleska uh john woodward theresa harris reagan shulkley amanda knight jay burks karen parker susan lackey wellman uh jamie with no last name peyton meadows brian killian ellie Zotz, I think, and happy birthday, Brett Killian.

That's his brother. Brian Kinney also, Darren Pollack, Holly Harward. Oh, that's a tough one. I'll never get through that one easy. Catherine Collado, Jason Tobey, Michelle Malone-Nickerson, Amy Clark, Jennifer Crumpet,

Crump Lee, whatever. James Marder, Jesse Tayaman, Colin Mulligan, shit. Jamie Harder, no, that's Sarah Crawford, Wendy Madden Mulligan, Hawk Glandford, how key? I don't know. Rabbi, that's a rabbi. Shmololovich, I don't know why he makes me say that every week. Courtney Jaquay, I think. Lauren McCann, Madison with no last name.

Jen Whalen. Mark Wissmer. He donated both ways. Thanks, Mark. Appreciate it. Lauren Caton. Villa Cutanin. Oh, never.

I'll never get it. Ville. V-I-L-L-E. I don't know how to pronounce that. Spronounce? Whatever. Mandy Hagen. Okay, pronounce, pronounce.

Corey Kitzmiller. Maddie West jessica ruker barbara howells jacqueline woods cardiac with no last name josephine kramer uh jen murphy wyvern workshop chelsea morgan's friend amanda it's her birthday happy birthday she got her into the show so she gives a shit uh matt inman clark emery uh joseph what is this sonia lee sonia lee pointer i think valerie walsh melina melina coon shit morgan eberly what is this donald ward that look i write terribly and i write a simple name yeah but i put the two words together so it looks like donald word donald. We'll go that way. Donald Word.

Mike and Kimberly Billingsley. Michelle Beatty. Malia Milne. Dan Daly. Kathy Jackson. Blair Hopwood. Hopwood. I'm a terrible.

Janice Hill. Dora Rodas. WB. Jamel Thomas. Sergio Ruttmayer. Jill Vita. Miami Dog Whisperer. He's from Miami, so he speaks to them in Miami, whatever. Low tone.

Right. Yeah. Very nicely. Joe Slacker Gentry, Luke Allison, Martine Sesma, Marilyn Mitchell, Deborah Kim, Bailey Elizabeth Holland, Aaron Marsalis, Posey. That's the last name. Shit. Chris Lyle, James and Jimmy Fan Fiction. Isn't that like dirty?

I don't know what that means. I hope it's not dirty. I hope it's not. Just. Yeah, that's just. Maybe we're like saving the world or something. Jessica Curtis Montgomery Mayo Jr. Amber Coburn.

Cranky with no last name. Rosalba Avalos. Jen Greishner, Mike Shanahan, probably not. I'm sure it is. Julia Haley, Sarah Surridge, Keegan Kayston, Femma Narcotic, Mouse with no last name, Brian Butcher, Brendan Ables, Jude Kendall, Natasha with no last name, Michael Abbott, Daniel with no last name,erry drescher ashley vo matthew nope that's marcia what is that do me do oh boy i'm a i have terrible writing man ashley rain dea giovanna dea dea giovanna katherine claus i think that's santa's wife eric uh lewis kevin what what did I do Kivas Kivas Roshner Rosner Mark Gutierrez Alan Vio Mary Preston Marie J. Preston

Kay Whopper or Quopper I don't know if that's a Tessie Hughes Tessa Hughes Candice Buchan Richard McCutcheon Michael Bertholst fuck

Kimberly Smith Shelby Montana what is this Kelly Moore buchan richard mccutcheon michael burtholst burtholst fuck kimberly smith shelby montana uh what is this kelly moore candace johnson barb esposito rachel pietkowski deborah townsend brian with no last name michelle gay eric downing devin bronger sky would no last name emily would no last name a just the letter all right i don't know what it's up what it stands for dulcie hall uh clifton cunningham hayley dozier kendall mack kyle whitney caitlin newkirk john melberg hunter thompson uh jenna crowed happy birthday yeah probably not with an s probably hunter f thompson yeah yeah uh jenna crowed's birthday so happy birthday. Thomas Crowe's. Julie Slama. Slowa. I've got to get better at this.

Faye with no last name. Amber Farley. Madison Socha. Bobby Joe Shambly. Amy Pierce. Trevor Henson. Stephen Fan. Stephen Fan.

Steve, what is this? Steve Dave McGregor. That's his first name. Steve Dave. Rebecca Kalp. Elizabeth Hawkins. Matthew Bazashore. Jessica McCullough.

Erica Boudriolt. Amanda Hanson. Hannah Ledvina. Fuck. Eric Barnes. Jessica Stevens. Leonard Patino. Stephen Bennis.

Story with no last name. Hannah Burchell. John, what is this? Gerd, Trudy, okay, this is getting bad, Trudy Jones, I think, Patrick Everston, Crystal Salas, Emma with no last name, Melissa Rust, Allison Bennett, Laura McCabe, Raquel Escobedo, Emily Drenta, Lauren with no last name, Megan and Jay Chiharski, Julie, Julie Duncan, Emily Merlino, Laura Stankunas, Zachary Hernandez, Nick with no last name, Taylor Abt, Jody McCall, Nikki Minnicone, Carolyn Phillips, God damn it, Michael Hinchley, Renee with no last name, Maricela with no last name, Brian Lauretta, Angie Adams, Serena Hammond, Condor, nope, yeah, Federico, Nick Curtis, what did I do, Imogen, Cassidy with no last name, Luke Rogers, Jacob Shaw, Cassidy, with no last name.

Luke Rogers. Jacob Sean, I think. Shaw. Gary McMichael. Aaron Thib. Tyler Katlorek. Blake Moore. Le'Veon Bell, probably not.

Kyle Davidi. Daniel, what is this? Daniel Stuhlberg. Jeffrey Goen. Noreen Galindo. He's down at the bottom of the page, everybody. He really writes small and struggles on these. So the bottom of the page everybody really writes small and struggles on these i can't so the the bottom of the page is a real pain in the ass because then my knuckles on the table oh i get it and the penmanship gets worth worse are you trying to save papers skip

two lines go to the next page noreen galindo suzanna lee jessica hayden chantal graham chase uh thank you everyone for donating so jimmy can get more paper sorry chase webble webble heart see and then the hard names are at the bottom of the page too i don't know what the fuck what am i doing top of the page here uh and i still can't read it robin ribble ribble riddle barger tyler burgett uh sarah visk Wesley Adams, Carla Broman, Megan Manning, Sierra Asvuewet, how do you have E-E-U-W? That doesn't make any sense. J-W-F-9-6-8, Robert Johnson, Colleen Ferris, Katie Jeffs, probably Warren's daughter. Aaron Heiderbrich, Aaron J., Emily Beckman, Adam Borsma, Nicolette Caravella, John Cameron, Aline Reed, Kimberly DiMartino, Shanna's friend Nicole.

Oh, Shanann's friend Nicole from the – Oh, okay, okay. Somebody broke the news to me that she has breast cancer, which makes it worse. It's hard to say she overreacted. No, I get it. That sucks. Tina Crowley, Melissa Rafe Theodore, Tessa Douglas, Tamara with no last name, Magoo365, which is basically me, Alex with no last name, Brian Fawcett, Kyle Beretta, Jennifer Beatys,

Beatles. Ryan Fawcett, Kyle Beretta, Jennifer Beatys, Beatles, Tessa Douglas, Jacob King, Justine Zewalt, Whitney Flasca, Brie Romero, Mandy with no last name, Joanna Smiley, Matt Robinson, Candace Wallace, Marley with no last name, Emily Murray, Mary Crane, Hammer, oh, Hammer, like Hammer time. Robin Davison, what did I do here? Rachel. Barters. Anna with no last name. Jacob Hartwell. Lindsay Reed. Robin. Kale.

Beth Lemon. Lindsay. Nope, that's Lisa. Chamberlain. Chamberlain. Chamberlain. I don't know. Jessica with no last name. Brandon Kroom. Loud Jeff instead of Silent One. Lindsay. Nope, that's Whitney. Leonard.

Amy Nickel. Andrew Jones. Heather Westerfield. Matthew McGeary. Travis with no last name. Kiri Conteel. Mark with no last name. Jen DiSimio.

It's Italian. What are you going to do? Let's mess it up. Crystal Robinson. Christy Edwards. Zach Osei. Lorea Roos. Her husband Levi had a birthday and I missed it. Happy birthday, Levi.

Hang in there. It gets worse. Brooke Trevino, Samantha Smith, Justin Vogler, Michelle Harward, Jenna Phelps, Sean Stanley, Laura Safford, I think, Alana and Mike Bouts, Brianna Wynn, Candace Wallace, Dave Gray, Tyler Richards, Harry Butts, probably not, Tyler Richards, Dustin Bear, maybe, Brittany Conger, Andy Davis, Lily Morph morph i think renee lynn laurie bobskill kayla riddell todd ziggler zillinger zillinger okay daniel lopez tiffany born robert nicholas aaron grumbach uh lindsey groff krauf erica chavez brooke robinson amanda larson home stretch Erica Chavez, Brooke Robinson, Amanda Larson, Home Stretch, Last Page, Megan Leindacker, Lindaker, I don't know, Kobe with no last name, Rachel, what is this, Rachel, but what, Raquel maybe, Rutt Carlsdoter, none of those are right, Cassie, Sawyer, Evelyn, and what is it, Evelyn Zamora, Granova, Gondola. Granola. I don't know. That's amazing.

I have terrible penmanship. Angelina Marconi. Alicia Ybarra. Preston Letterman. Megan with no last name. Michael Bailey. Andrew Meissmer. Nadia Ashour.

Robert Sherwatka. Serwatka. Megan with no last name. Ruga. What is this? Pungo? God damn it, I don't know if that's a P or an R. Either way. And Josh Doxey, Kennedy Seckman, Stephen Diovana, Donor, Daner, Stephanie Fleming,

Christopher Gales, Michelle Lopez, Becca Pitts, Sydney Raines Pratt, Dominic Brunson, Renee with no last name, Tega Bernstein, Logan Fisher, Tamsin Hunter, Michael Keenan, Matthew Moon, Terrence Clark, Sadie Winsheimer, Max Price, Melissa Perrin, Haven Bell, C. Figler, Mike Loracoc, Grace Melissa Perrin, Haven Bell, C. Figler, Mike Loracoc, Lorac. Mike Loracoc. James is no last name. Michelle Ryder, Axel Amadeus. That's the person's real name.

Isn't it really? That's fucking rad. Wow. Chantel with no last name. Nicole Serrata, Krista Gilson, Bob Menzel, Megan Saunders, Heather Nelson, Isabel Orozco. Orozco. Megan Saunders, Heather Nelson, Isabel Orozco, Kevin Lust, Tori Bernhardt, Joe Cordes, Katie Hanks, Joshua Perkins, Oilfield Colorado Chris. It's fucked up. Myra with no last name.

What is this? Bab Raver? What? Can't be right. Ian with no last name. Tay Hannah, Jillian Loslow, Desire desiree uh no that's daisy ray hayes jenna sarver uh catherine what cath kathaya alvarenga courtney graham michelle pitman vanessa trujillo uh daniel hair uh jessica latz tanya tanya alboney oh boy uh chris oh boy kristin downey z with no last name uh madison hansen katie robey amanda mitchell nick jubry jubry uh amanda mitchell nick bell

matt cock matt bach well i don't i apologize julie farga uh andrea hardell mia with no last name dustin henry kim petherick jose santiago shanna ferguson amy deans and cassie sawyer and if you guys think that's fucked up if i print them out it would be way worse because at least i've read them once thank you guys so much for everything you do for us thank you everybody thank you thank you thank you thank you extra thanksgiving thank you thank you thank you extra thanksgiving thank you extra everything thank you so much for everything so much gravy on it yes so much just deep thick gravy we really do appreciate everything you do for us everybody does for us we can't live without you guys honestly you make the show you make this a thing especially this year we couldn't go on the

road at all right so i mean like a lot of people if you maybe worked for a restaurant or you do things like that we basically took that was our our main chunk of our income and just wiped out clean right just absolutely gone this year which is brutal and everybody here is you've made it so the show can go and we can it doesn't matter because you guys support us yeah so thank you guys for that honestly you save our lives and you save the show and we just we can't tell you how much we appreciate you jimmy where can they find you so you can tell them how much that you appreciate them they know plenty it's fine i'm just i'm just very grateful this week and uh as every week but more so this week because i don't i'm not going to see my fucking family this week this is now

if it's wiped out all my money it's also wiped out my fucking ability to see family i'm not going to go do it and i just i'm thankful for you guys so thanks for being with us on this ride where can they tell you how thankful they are you know my name and you can copy and paste it it's long where we are you'll find it we're on there somewhere you know how to find people on social we're on the internet that said hope you enjoyed you enjoyed it. No, we weren't. People thought we were going to take this week off. No, you'll be off. No, we don't care if it's a holiday.

You might need this extra if it's a holiday. That's the point. Well, it's a holiday. Yeah, extra is what you need with the holidays. So thank you, everybody, very, very much. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

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