Small Town Murder - #201 - A Mystery Deepens in Gormania, West Virginia

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

This week, in Gormania, West Virginia, a young woman runs out the door, after receiving a mysterious phone call, never to be seen again. A full on posse is organized, as well as the FBI, State, & local police, as a maximum effort is made to find this woman, hopefully alive. Everyone is the tiny town is a suspect, but will the case ever go down? Along the way, we find out that mountain people are really into pageants, that maybe you should go to the police academy before being given a badge, gun & cruiser, and that just because you can't find a body, doesn't mean there wasn't a murder!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Gourmania, West Virginia, a mysterious phone call leads a young woman to run out of the door and never return.

Now everyone is a suspect. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petrigallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wisman thank you everybody for joining us this week we have got one of the craziest things we've ever dealt with this week just in terms of this is like the quintessential small town murder story of i i don't even want to i don't want to give anything away but trust me you have chosen a good week to listen that's why we do it if this is your first week wow enjoy so this is a crazy week, wow, enjoy. This is a crazy week. Quickly, quickly, just want to get a little house cleaning out of the way here. Thank you guys for everything. Everybody out there for your reviews.

First of all, they help a lot. Apple Podcasts, if you haven't yet, give us five stars because it does help a lot. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com right now where tickets are available and on sale for the January 29th live, virtual live show that we're going to do this is not we did the prisoner dating game last time and we just kind of did it you know

we're just kind of we're experimenting we never know how to do it we were experimenting and now we have it down so we're doing a real show just like on the road just like in a theater except it'll be coming to your tv I guess so doing it just like that we got mics we got the whole thing technically it's going to be wonderful asked for it we're doing it we're doing it we're going to be holding microphones like we're on stage and everything we're going to pretend we're all going to pretend like the world is normal and do this so shut up and give me murder.com right now do that also listen to crime and sports wild episode this week is a good place to start there so give that a shot check that out

baseball player you've never heard of him probably did a lot of you're a baseball fan you might but not not he's not not a mainstream guy but wow if you're of a certain age too you'd have to be all yeah older than us yeah yeah that's what it would take there so check that out also listen to ps i hate this movie because god i have to watch these terrible movies every week and we watched twilight a couple weeks ago it's a disaster so do that and patreon my goodness do we have patreon this week first of all for crime and sports patreon which you will have access to if you are a patreon supporter uh we have we're going to talk about the usfl not really the demise of the usfl there's a lot of good documentaries on that more the craziness of a weird league that will eventually be defunct people trying to collect paychecks

players threatening owners with baseball bats showing up at their front door owners having to go in and pay them in cash so they don't murder them things like that a lot of really a lot of drug stuff it's great it's a lot of fun r Rick James is involved. Oh, it's wild stuff. So check that out. Small Town Murders bonus episode. Patreon this week is going to be. We're going to talk about Charles Manson, the Manson family and Heaven's Gate. And we are going to compare and contrast the two cults.

Very different cults. Very similar and very different. Extremely different, but also a lot of through lines that run through them. A lot? Yeah, there are more than you think. the two cults very different cults very similar and very different yeah extremely different but also a lot of through lines that run through them a lot it's it yeah there are more than you think i can't wait to find out what you think more than you think the only thing that i see is don't talk to anybody else that's where it ends but not really because they were it's not just there there's a lot more there in the psychological realm all right i can see that it's gonna be it's gonna be a lot of fun though because we have some interesting things find out that actually roman polanski at one point thought bruce lee killed sharon tate stop i swear i will tell

you all about it that that's how crazy this is patreon.com slash that's true it's how sharp his karate chop is he said he's the only one who could come in and control the situation. But why would he shoot people? Roman, it's a movie, man. Anyway, patreon.com slash crime and sports. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. You get all of that and more. I can't wait.

And Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show while we do shout outs. And you can also get the same shout out and mispronunciation if you donate on paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com quickly very quickly comedy show right it's a comedy show the cases are 100 real they absolutely are but we're comedians so we make we make jokes we we never we're never like hilarious the head came clean off that's never one of the jokes it It's not very funny. If you're thinking, oh, God, that doesn't go together. No, that's not what we're talking about.

There are so many things that go on around a crazy murder in rural West Virginia that are hilarious. If you don't think it's funny that Roman Polanski thinks Bruce Lee did that, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. That's hilarious. We'll talk all about that, though. But yeah, that's what we do here. So we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why?

Because we're assholes. Yes. But we're not scumbags. There he is. That's how it works. So if that sounds good to you, we are going to have a ball. If not, true crime and comedy should never go together in any aspect. Then maybe you won't like the show.

So I don't know. We warned you. But otherwise, everybody else, it's time to clear the lungs sit back and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this okay we're off on our timing but that's fine i was close it's close let's do this let's go on a trip jimmy would love to i would you love to go to west virginia not really there yeah exactly we're we're coming from michigan last week heading down to west virginia this is gormania west virginia which looks like gormania like entering a state of gormania is that what it is it's hulkamania but in gormania same spelling it's g-o-r-mania

i like that it's gormania brother gormania 22 coming at you brother It's Gourmania, brother. Gourmania 22 coming at you, brother. It's weird. I see Brad Pitt trying to pronounce it like Gourlami. Gourmania. Gourmania. Gourmania.

Gourmania, I think it is. West Virginia. Now, West Virginia looks like a chicken. If you laid a chicken out in front of you with the legs sticking out away from you, okay? You laid a chicken down. Now, turn it to about 2 out away from you, okay? You laid a chicken down. Now turn it to about two o'clock. Just turn it to two o'clock.

That's what West Virginia looks like. The feeder peninsula? A laid out chicken. Is there a beach for West Virginia? I don't think so. How the fuck do they get those little claws in there then? Oh, you mean they're just two legs? The two legs sticking out. You don't have fingers on the legs?

It's a chicken, Jimmy. Chickens don't have fingers, really. Well, you know what I mean. Claws. It's not that detailed. Okay. There's no beak either either you want a beak in there also i can't see it's the shape of a goddamn chicken i'm being real if you saw it from above that's what it is so if it's turned to two o'clock this would be in the right leg okay this is they call this the west virginia panhandle okay so you've heard of panhandles in florida and other places you ain't seen nothing until you've seen a west virginia panhandle

terrific wow um it's about two hours and 25 minutes up to pittsburgh pennsylvania okay and only three hours to baltimore so that's it's in a weird place where it's close to both those places and fascinating yeah it's right in the middle there. And about three hours and 40 minutes down to Leyland, West Virginia, which was our last West Virginia episode, episode 169 and one of our most insane. West Virginia never disappoints. Put it that way. They bring heat. That was crazy, that episode.

That's the one with the guy dangling off the bridge and the cops pull up and there's a kid with a stick trying to push a corpse off a bridge. They let him go and he got stuck. That was wild. They're just beating it. We'll bury him. Well, let's dig him back up again. I don't know. What are we going to do with him? Let's put him on the kitchen table for a while. I don't know. Well, let's bring him to the bridge. Oh, shit. There's cops coming. Just let him dangle. That was

insane. And the guy deserved it, too. So it was pretty funny. He's kind of a jerk. Check that out. This is in Grant County, which is pretty ironic considering it's named after Ulysses s grant and they don't he doesn't believe what they well i if you've been to west virginia it doesn't seem like a real pro-union kind of place even though it was split up in not a lot of similar votes as grant would give not anymore the motto here um it's a basic motto but they're they're they're honest at least it's uh quote scream all you want ain't nobody gonna hear you so that's that's what you're getting here

this is up in the hills by the way this is over 2 2500 feet of elevation and uh yeah this is talking about hollers we're talking about hollers we're talking about populations of 200 people or less in a town really yeah this is uh if you're from anywhere else in the world you're like what is happening yeah this isn't normal okay i just want to tell everybody out there that that it is fascinating that you have this but this isn't everybody there's a very small percentage of people you love the like the ability to get good pizza and like the accessibility to like things yes and you hate the the being involved in the getting of yeah i don't want this lifestyle with the ease of getting a great slice of that's the

thing i can't have both sounds awesome i need 200 people i need a good weed dispensary nearby and i need a good slice of pizza and i need to you know stuff like that there's a certain i have certain things i need there is a certain mystique. I can't live here. And a draw to having no neighbors like that and having nobody around. That sounds awesome. But the ability to get things sucks. I can't deal with that.

Yeah, that's bad. So this town started out. We'll go through the history very briefly. The town started out in 1830. A guy named Jacob Schaefer bought land near the Potomac River. Big deal. Who cares? For $150.

And I think he overpaid. Just going to say. We'll talk about this Peter Gorman guy because things are named after him. We're going to talk about Gormania today and then directly across the border into Maryland. Because this is right on the Maryland border. Directly across the border, we're talking quarter mile, is Gorman. Gorman, Maryland.

Gorman, Maryland. So there's Gorman, Maryland, Gormania, West Virginia, and they're attached, basically. Awesome. They're only split by a border. Fantastic. Otherwise, you just drive down this road. I think it's US 50, maybe, possibly,

and then that's it. You're there. You got different taxes on other side. Different license plates. Everything's different. Dry county, all that shit then that's it you're then you got different taxes on other side different license plates everything's different so dry county all that shit that's it so uh in 1859 uh peter gorman was 20 years old and he was one of the founding members of the washington nationals which was one of the first which was the first official baseball team in america 20 years old yeah he was 20 uh he rose to become a star by the end of the civil war he's one of the first baseball stars in America, basically.

Because back then, that was when baseball was just starting over here. In 1867, he led the Nationals westward, where they beat every team except for Rockford, Illinois, because those peaches are tough. Lori Petty gets on the mound. She's really focused. It's hard. You can't steal home with Dottie back there. That's what I'm saying. Well, actually, the Rockford, Illinois team had Albert Spalding as its pitcher.

You might recognize that name by every ball you've ever held that has his name fucking stitched on it. That's the guy we're talking about. You get autographs from famous people on him. On him. Unbelievable. he was pitching actually i don't think he had a ball of his name on it at the time but there's that so in 1867 gorman was elected to a one-year term as the president of the national association of baseball players okay which is way previous to the union right there uh in 1903 gorman and his son-in-law his son-in-law tried but failed to buy the washington

senator's baseball team yeah which is that's a big deal um it folded and came back multiple times so many times so between its establishment in 1870 grant county was divided into different townships because this is grant county uh now more in 18 1985 there were Election Day floods in these counties, and 47 people were killed. Oh, my God. In 1985. 85? You're risking life and limb to vote for Reagan? I mean, I don't think West Virginia mattered that much to them, but Election Day, 85.

It was like local elections. It's not even a presidential year. That's 84. Yeah, you're right. I don't know what the hell they're doing in 85 but 47 people were killed in the you don't hear a lot of people being killed in floods you'll hear like a flash flood and two people were swept away but not 47 right that's a lot it's a lot but i mean 8 000 died in galveston but that was 1800s right i think yeah i mean it happens now you know it's gotta be a hurricane katrina but not

a flood in a town from a river that's just a it's rare that a little bit of rain from the potomac yeah that's odd so i i'm hey i'm sure it was a quick thing i don't know and at franklin which is the pendleton county seat the south branch of the potomac river crested at 26 or 22.6 feet during that and the flood stage in the riverbed was only seven feet so that's a lot more you got that's three times you got 18 feet of water coming at you three times the flood level that's not good at all uh there's a cemetery in town that's on top of a hill that has like 30 people buried in it about from what i've seen from this blogger they were saying that uh most of the markers are made out of wood awesome yeah and um and i can deal with there's about 15 markers left standing and only a few of them have names oh no it's just a hill

of corpses so that's that's west virginia yeah now the reviews of this town are very simple i don't know if this is what it's like talking to people here or what, but they're all like one sentence. Everywhere else there's like descriptors. I'll give you a few real fast. Two stars. Little job opportunities. No factories here. End of review. That's all he's got.

That's what he's got. Three stars. The overall review of this area isn't awful. That's all. It's not awful. It isn't awful. The overall, it this area isn't awful. That's all. It's not awful. It isn't awful. The overall, it's not awful. Thanks for the descriptiveness. That's what I've got. Wow.

I feel like then he chewed, you know, and spit and then just stared, waiting for a response. Here's three stars. Only have family dollar store, dollar general store, and one grocery store. Few gas stations and few fast food places that's it it's all okay treat it like trip advisor but like less thorough very it's they're like facebook comments succinct hey cute kid nice car hope you had fun see you at christmas like that it's very kid nice car your wife could jog a little bit that's it yeah around you've lost a lot of hair that's that's that's a facebook comment

remember high school bye look at you you look terrible great bye you look awful your whole family your kids aren't as cute as you think they are i'm gonna tell you that right now uh here's four stars this is a very low bar here for four stars i haven't heard of any crimes occurring in this area seems pretty safe to me that's what it takes that's all seems he looked outside yeah didn't see anybody with like a machete running down the street hacking at people indiscriminately so he's like pretty safe to me and nobody told him that that happened yeah looking good haven't heard anything i haven't heard if i i mean if it's so important that people talk about

i mean if i hear it i'll change my mind i'll take a star off but for now four stars four stars right now uh here's another four stars this is the most the most valuable you're gonna get out of these people uh four stars quote most neighbors the most valuable you're going to get out of these people. Four stars. Quote, most neighbors are very friendly. Neighborhood is generally quiet. Road needs a little work due to many potholes. Part of the road was finally paved a few years ago, so it is much better. Part of the road.

The road. Part of the road. That's how small of a town this is. They talk about part of the road. They don't even have a name for it it's all it's the road the road right how many roads is there are there that we're gonna actually pay the rest just go up in the hollers they're barely fucking carved out what the shit here's one for nearby petersburg this is the or peterburg this is the kind of a little bit bigger

town close by three stars quote it's a great small town but the problem is no one wants to stay unless you are an older person the cost of living here is not uh not too bad two of course is not done properly more for the lower income is it the number just just it's a to yeah that's fine i'll give them that yeah people are really nice and want to help sometimes too much correct this time so no you. You just messed up there. At least they know. So you know, not fuck you. You're good.

You know, at least. You just maybe were typing fast. Who knows? Okay. Another problem is there can be drama. Wait, I thought we had the problem nailed down, but now we've got more problems? No, no, no. But the problem is no one wants to stay unless you're an older person.

The cost of living here is not bad. More for lower income. People are really nice and want to help sometimes too much another problem is even though the other one was the problem right that's fine there can be drama okay okay and recently we've had more problems with drugs being in our small town well yeah you're in the hills of west virginia come on what do you want here it used to be not like that but you cannot fix everything used to be used to be not like that used to be not like that that guy says used to could you used to could yeah i could have should have would have used to could get a dom bag for a dom i mean shit you got a lid for

there are old people talking about that when we were like teenagers they get a lid it was like that isn't even a measurement of any drugs anymore it's not a measurement of things what is that that's not a measurement and i asked old people how much weed was that no one ever gave me a straight answer i've heard of 50 different things if you look it up it's all that's a four fingers it's this it's that no one knows they just say here's a bag of weed it's a random amount that i've said random measurement that i call a lid enough to get your friends high for a while there you go people in this town 124 so not a lot and that's the town there's nobody 124 people like four

families it's it down 38 since 1990 so it is dying uh more males than females who cares a little bit older population of the median age is 44 41 of the people are 65 to 74 years old oh wow it is elderly it's a lot of older people 70 are married but these are it's only 124 people so the stats are really this place isn't going to exist one day. Oh, absolutely not. It's going to go away. Nobody is single with no children or single with children, which I don't understand how you could be... How can you be not...

It makes no sense. There's no single people. But there is, so it makes no sense. A race of this town, it's 83% white and 17% more races and that's it that's it there is no asian people no black people no hispanic people we don't know what those two or more races are there's a white guy with something else in them yeah but nobody identifies as black asian hispanic none of that shit 43 of the people are religious because if you live here honestly how could you possibly believe in anything any guiding power you'd go this is even if i did believe in it i'd be against

it if i had to live in gormania west virginia so uh the people here it's it's pretty mixed bag on religion the most the highest amount of one religion is other christian faith other other yeah i assume there's snakes flying around. Who knows what's happening up here. 0.0% Jewish, though. That we're sure of. The unemployment rate here is about double the rest of the country as well. And it's a little bit rough. They've had no job growth recently or anything like that.

But there is, because the people who do have jobs here are minors. Oh. And the minors. That's still happening oh yeah absolutely they make decent money because it's a crazy fucking job obviously so you have to pay people crazy amounts of money to do it so median household income here is 44 000 a year which is still way under the 57 000 normal but more than you would think most of the people make 30 to 50 grand a year which is you can live off of here as we'll get into cost of living 100 is normal regular here it's 84 okay which is still a little bit higher

but about about average compared to about the right amount compared to the amount under the national average in income that's yeah it's a bit similar you're right and uh the meat the housing is a 65 out of 100 medium median home cost 151 400 so it's too much it's a little bit too much to live in the holler here i'm just you know a little much here not a lot for sale i'll say that much i had a hard time finding nobody's died this month places yeah the places that are there are who boy well we'll get into it because if you can't help yourself we have for you the Gourmania West Virginia Real Estate Report.

All right. I found, by the way, you're right, Jimmy. We're calling this Gourmania for you. I know it's probably Gourmania, but it's Gourmania, brother. You can't call it Gourmania. It's Gourmania. Gourmania. It sounds gourmet. It sounds nice. We but it's Gourmet, brother. Call it Gourmet. It's Gourmet. Gourmet. It sounds gourmet.

It sounds nice. We're paving half the road, brother. Gourmet. Your average two bedroom rental here is about six hundred twenty six dollars a month. No machinery. We're doing it ourselves. Right out of the ground. I found a point eight three acre lot.

Yeah. It's ugly as shit. Yeah. It's just dead things. it has a stream running through the back of it third of an acre third of an 8.83 so almost a whole acre six thousand dollars that's amazing so i mean you can go fishing it's a place to go fishing it's incredible yeah it's a very bad used car i want to own that that's you can you can you can put it on i don't know do you have credit cards i'm sure i don't know if they're maxed out or whatever yeah that's the thing i found one here

in a in a nearby town this was the closest structure i could find it's still the middle of nowhere two bedroom two bath 980 square feet uh very remote sitting up on a very weird hill okay it's fucking weird they're a unabomber not even unabomber it looks like i draw children here so i can take them apart yeah and use their parts for my artwork that's what it looks like i'm gonna take kids apart put together a whole new kid that's how it's gonna be i'll put his head on his butt right see how that works out eighty nine thousand nine hundred dollars if you want to do that then i found one it's just woods yeah 21 acres of woods all right 49 900 bucks fuck it's a 0.83 i want that that's a lot of woods that's not bad uh things to do here in

this town my goodness is the spring mountain festival okay that's all that happens around here yeah oh boy um yeah this whole area is like spring mountain as they consider it there's nobody that's famous coming to this we know that oh no they're not buying they're not getting any they would be able to find it right um i'm just going to read what they've told me on the website describe it it's roots run deep in grant county and date back to the white water weekend that was an annual event every year starting in 1973 and running until 79. Whitewater weekend was centered around kayak and canoe races on the North fork of the South branch river and culminated each year with the April fool's race of quote,

anything that floats. That's not a boat. So just make a contraption, bring a bathtub, try not to drown in the river. Basically. How many rescues are they making out of that? Somebody floated jacuzzi yeah my lawnmower fell apart right i thought flipping the mower upside down that seat seemed like it would keep it up uh the gas tank everything you

know there's no air in the tires oh shit so the u.s championship canoe races were held on the north fork which sparked jesus that's insane the canoe there's canoe races were held on the North Fork, which sparked. Jesus, that's insane. The canoe. There's canoe races on the on the North Fork of the South. What is it? North on the North Fork, which sparked the weekend and was combined with the with a golden trout festival to become the Whitewater weekend. Local craftsmen, clubs and vendors provided food and crafts to crowds that would literally walk miles to come see them they don't have cars why are they walking miles why are they walking

miles this is gotta get that golden trout this is the type of place i described uh one of the wrestlers on the new jack episode was talking about living in wrestling they were working at jim cornett's territory which was in rural kentucky so they worked west virginia in the hills and they were talking about being in west virginia and a guy said that a donkey came over the hill with the two kids on it and they smacked it on the ass they got to the wrestling show smacked the donkey on the ass and it went home and then the kids went to the wrestling show barefoot with their overalls on. And he was like, where the fuck am I? This is the area we're talking about here.

This is not. This is different. Kid with a rope belt. Oh, a belt. Yeah. No overall. So you don't need a belt. My belt straps around my shoulders.

That's how I got two of them. And they just bolt shoulders. I got vertical belt. Keeps him up. I like my belts up and down the tall way smack the donkey on the ass and set it back smack the ass smack the ass on the ass so that's the type of place they uh whitewater weekend dried or died out after a number of floods destroyed the rapids and other community and traffic issues forced its curtailment who knows probably malicious

shooting at people as they walked into town. This left Grant County and Petersburg searching for a new festival to take place at the Whitewater Weekend. In 1992, the Grant County Chamber of Commerce sponsored the first Spring Mountain Festival in Petersburg City. Oh, boy, look at this. It's got fairs and festivals, a pageant, free entertainment. They don't say what it is ranging

from bluegrass to country and classic rock to gospel with circus or magic acts for the young and young at heart oh boy bounce houses a trout derby holy shit what a trout derby how do you even do that i think it's whoever catches the most trout i think it's like in funny farm that's what they were gonna do i think it's like a trout derby. I just see them crashing fish into each other. Oh, that's yeah. God damn it. Mine never goes straight.

I told him that's the exit. So the parade with bands, military units, fire engines and pageant royalty. By the way, you know who will be crowned there in April 2021? Miss Spring Mountain Festival pageant will be March 14th. Miss Spring Mountain Festival pageant. How old? Oh, boy. It doesn't say how old here, but I assume probably too young.

Too young to be staring at in that way. Exactly. I'm going to go out on a roll. Creepily young. Creepily young. Crime rate in this town, not including staring at beauty pageant contestants, which should be what that's not in these stats. Uh,

property crime is about one third of the national average. So two thirds under it. Okay. So pretty goddamn low. I don't know what there is to steal. Really? That's maybe what it is. Maybe a violent crime,

murder, rape, robbery, and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is less than half the national average. What? So there's not enough people. Yeah.

You're spread out. And if anyone, they all know each other. I saw Bill killing Frank. I saw it. God damn it. I heard him yelling through the holler. I'm going to kill you, Frank. And I saw it.

That's what happened. There it was. I'm sorry, but it was there. So that said, let's talk about a murder great let's do this okay well um we're gonna have to go back a little bit in time to 1988 okay so not that far back not that we're talking i don't know paul abdul's dancing around with cartoon cats yeah weird that is to say out loud and then realize it's 32 years ago yeah yeah that's so fucking long ago it's

why do i remember that you know why because mold is your old now yeah i break everything up into color and black and white that's all if it's in black and white it's all the shit and if it's in color okay take it easy with that though because i just showed my daughter the wizard of oz last night that shit's in color 1939 19 well yeah but normally that was a that was a huge deal a lot of people didn't know that that shit was in color because the tv didn't make it that way no on the theater though that was a whoa look at the color that was a big deal whereas i'm talking like your regular picture that like mom would have taking pictures of the kids got it what are those fucking what are those pictures in okay if they're in black and white that's some old shit different

time they're in color it's modern times at least. So 1975 is modern times even, even though I wasn't born yet. Neither were you. So this murder, we're going back to 1988. 1988 was a weird time in America. Very strange, very weird time. 12 years post the Bicentennial. The Bicentennial was a big deal to bring everybody together, but we weren't even really in a good place yet.

Oh, terrible place. But 1988, possibly the worst fashion ever. Everybody dressed terribly. Mullets were still in fashion, but more permy now. So it's like a fluffier mullet people were going for, a mane of a mullet. Nice mullet crew. Yeah, the music was literally... You can't get any bigger shit pile than 1988. It wasn't.

It was before, you know, the whole thing switched over again in three years. It was bad stuff. So 1988, very ugly. Gorman, Maryland. It might as well be 1961 because it's the middle of nowhere. Right. Let's be realistic here. So we're going to start our story in Gorman, Maryland,

which is an actual stone's throw away from Gormania. Gormania, brother. We can't not call it Gormania. We can't legitimize it with Gormania. I'm not doing it. Gormania, brother. Jimmy Wissman, you're mine at Gormania. It's been too long, Jimmy Wissistman how has the ufc not used god damn it i'm sorry jimmy wistman you've been out here running your mouth you came and you interfered my match jimmy wistman i ain't taking it no more i'm gonna tear your arms off and beat

you with stumps and gore mania that's right. You came interfering by jumping off of the track rope on me. I said, nope. That's it. This is going to be set up one place and one place only. Gormania 44, brother. It's coming. Pull your intestines out at Gormania. Gormania

44, brother. So, Gorman, Maryland. February 17th, 1988. Let us talk about a young lady. Okay. Let's do this. Let's talk about Catherine Denise Ford. Wonderful.

Kathy, she goes by. Young Kathy is 19 years old. Yeah. And she, by all accounts, is a happy, nice, everybody likes her. We'll give her a little background here um she has three brothers including her twin brother yep so she's a twin that's always a that's weird a different dynamic yeah it's not normal but it's always a different dynamic she's got uh are they i mean no they're different sexes but But I've seen like- Everything but the penis, Jim. Everything else is very similar. I realized when I was about to ask it what's happening there.

Yeah. But a lot of times- But they can look identical. They look really close. I know a pair of people that went to kindergarten with them even. They were twins and knew them all through high school and everything, and they're fucking identical. And it was really disturbing.

Different sexes? Different sexes. Yeah, that's my point. And they'd say, hey, you're him with tits. Your sister is you with your sister is you with tits it's creepy my grandfather no one wanted to go out with her like it's too creepy i can't do it i spoke with your brother and we talked about girls i can't i just can't i just can't i can't do it i know what your brother likes and i don't like that no no no i don't like that i know that my grandfather's a twin and they are identical that's what the doctor said it no they're fucking not really they don't look fucking

apart from being bald there's nothing else interesting well people also maybe over time i don't know they are very obviously not twins weird maybe this misunderstood the doctor maybe the doctor doesn't know fuck he said we don't look a lot but then he said we're twins so we're twins we're identical i don't know don't put anything past my grandfather he'll tell you anything and you'll believe it yeah so three brothers including a twin brother so that's the girl of the family when you got three brothers it's a if you know any um any women who were the only girl and a bunch of brothers it's a certain there's a if you know any any women who were the only girl in a bunch of brothers, it's a certain there's a certain dynamic to them. Usually that's usually one of the toughest women you ever.

They're usually cool as shit, by the way. They're usually very cool and they're very tough because they've basically if they wanted to play with their brothers, they were playing tackle football and shit like that. So they're usually very and you don't know. She's got three dudes. She knows how to throw a right hook. She's been told how to throw a cross. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks

the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened

to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So she and her family lived in Wilmington for a a long time and that's where she grew up was in

wilmington uh while she was there she went to dell castle trade school yep newcastle where she majored in child care and cooking this is at like pre-14 years old she majored in being a mom trade school at 14 right what are you doing what happened she could be a g we had like that's too early to be like you're gonna higher learning now girl well yeah it's just does school stop in eighth grade it is it is rural not in wilmington that's not a rural place well maybe that's why they moved here she was a member of the richardson park united methodist church in wilmington um and then they ended up uh she ended up moved the family moved here in 1984 as we'll talk about uh to buy a restaurant okay in this small town the father

still works in wilmington during the day and the family runs this restaurant in town and that's their new life um it's the old mill restaurant that they run she graduates in 1986 from southern high school which is early that's graduating you know a little bit early i think 17 or so um everybody says she's a real friendly she's not a she's not a dreamer she's not a um doesn't have her head in the clouds but in a good way she's down to earth she's sensible she's reliable she says she'll be there at two o'clock she'll be there at 2 o'clock. She'll be there at 2 o'clock and she'll do her thing.

She's a hardworking kind of young girl. Reliable. Reliable. Here's a picture of her. All right, yeah. She looks like it. Very pretty too. She doesn't look like she'd...

Very pleasant. She tells you she's going to do something. She's going to do it. She looks very pleasant. Yeah. Like just, yeah, you'd see her and you'd go, oh, hi. She just looks friendly, which is nice.

The Old Mill Restaurant, her father is a conrail freight yard worker who commutes from wilmington delaware on weekends to help run the restaurant oh my they bought that's a life yeah he's a friggin freight yard worker during the week feels like that's what the title should be friggin friggin freight yard where yeah when they hire you so i see you applied to be a friggin' Freight Yard worker. All right. You know this job's friggin' hard, right? It's a friggin' hard job.

I'm telling you right now. Everything's friggin' around here. It's a friggin' Yeah, you get your friggin' lunch at 1130. You got about a half friggin' hour. So get back before you, you know, time goes off there. Friggin' quitting time is when I say it is.

That's when it is. Paydays every two friggin weeks it's the rest of friggin work i mean you can go to hs sign up for the 401 friggin k get that set up and we'll go so yeah a freight yard worker which sounds like a hard job to do five days a week sounds like on the weekends you would want to relax yeah and unwind be prepared for next week let your muscles heal up because he's not a young guy he's got kids in his 20s and late teens so he's got to be in his you know late 40s 50s some shit like that so that's a tough life and then instead he goes commutes on the weekend to rural maryland so he can help run a restaurant which by the way is a really hard help run a restaurant, which, by the way, is a really hard job running a restaurant.

So not just hard difficulty in terms of like what you're doing mentally and stress. I think financially it's a nightmare. That's this guy's life is seven days a week, which seems pretty rough here. Now, young Kathy, she has a boyfriend. Since they moved here three years ago, right around the time they moved here, she met a young man named Darvin Moon, which is a Darvin. It's an interesting name. I don't think I've ever heard that name before. He's bonafide.

Darvin Moon? Right. Sounds like something that Charles Manson named one of the kids that one of the Manson girls had. We're naming him Darvin Moon. Right. Zazaphras, Darvin. And Squeaky's pissed. Yeah squeaky's pissed yeah what the

fuck he's gonna name him he's gonna name him ted it's fine i get stuck with this bullshit yeah it's okay fine fine he's darvin so darvin moon here she's been in like a three-year relationship with him so the time she's 16 to 19 okay so it's as you know it's as serious as you can be at that stage and in west virginia i don't know that the fact that she hasn't had four kids already is probably a miracle it's also a sixth of her life it's all she knows yeah and i i well i mean i think that's what the fact that like they haven't like gotten married and ran off into the hollers or something tells me that this family is probably pretty together yeah and i think she was she seems to be raised right she seems to care about school and things and work yeah she does she seems to be a very on the ball type of person so um now she's in a relationship

with him um on february 17th she gets some phone calls while at the family restaurant okay now her mother rosalie heard her daughter say mom i have to go i'll be back in an hour okay so uh she walked out of the door of the restaurant the old mill got behind the wheel of her silver ford bronco 2 hell yeah yeah yeah those are neat little rides yeah they are Yeah. So she gets in there and heads west. I'm sorry. Headed into West Virginia on US 50. And they saw her turn onto Bismarck Road. And then she drove on a cloud of dust.

Cloud of dust behind her. Daisy Duke. Yeah. I picture her like Daisy Duke. That's how I picture her. On 35. Rolling in town. That's so rad.

Popping out. She works at the restaurant like daisy duke top comes off that fucking bronco yeah she's daisy duke damn it it's cool that's a cool thing so the call that she received apparently was um received a call from a man he said he was a magistrate at mount storm in grant county west virginia. So he said he wanted Kathy to meet him at his office at 3 p.m. that day to discuss some checks that the restaurant had gotten. So it sounds like somebody's got some check fraud going on and they're tracking down merchants that took the checks and whatever

and trying to find. That's what it sounds like. So that was in the morning that happened um so she's supposed to go at 3 p.m then later that day another call came in for her a different call now this man claimed to be he says he's an undercover officer so you have a magistrate called in the morning now an undercover officer calls her later on in the in the morning so it's interesting and no one else takes the calls it's just kathy talking to these people so they said that uh called her with information concerning a possible investigation of her family's restaurant by the liquor licensing authorities what the fuck so she's like oh my god was there some weird thing with a check that led them to look into something else?

And now we got a liquor violation? Shit. Right. So, yeah, she's wondering, especially it's IDs is what they're worried about. Okay. Because in rural areas, kids will get sold liquor sometimes a little bit. Yeah. What the hell here?

Here you go, kid. Have a 12 pack. You're just going to go in the woods and drink it anyway. What's it going to hurt anybody? You're going to puke, have a headache. You'll never do this again. Yeah. And it doesn't matter so that's that

especially back then and that's the time in the 80s when they were starting to crack down on shit like that and actually like you know fine places and close places down for selling alcohol to kids so she is kind of in a bit of a tizzy over these phone calls and she tells her family and everybody at the restaurant all the employees do not sell beer to anyone without checking fucking id make sure all every purchase gets an id check and she says i have to go now and leaves okay so gets calls says make sure she seems freaked out make sure so the family's like what the hell is going on and why won't she tell us so she that's what she got in her bronco turned turned onto Bismarck Road.

She never comes back. Really? Never comes back. She's had enough of this shit. Enough. Literally, that cloud of dust is the last they ever see of her. That's terrifying. Her car just disappears.

No truck either. No truck. She's going right across to talk to a magistrate at 3 o'clock and talk to an undercover cop about a liquor violation yeah and uh never gets back um she's five foot ten weighs 140 pounds brown hair brown eyes she's uh carrying a bob she's wearing stonewashed jeans because it's 1988 obviously um she's got a black blouse black black leather coat, black shoes, carrying a pink handbag. Okay. Yeah. Sounds cool.

So it's a 1986. Oh, it's pretty new, too. An 86 Ford Bronco to Maryland plate. Oh, two, six, two, four, five. So there she is. That's who they're looking for. They even have her ring sizes. They announced everybody.

I don't know how you would get to the point of measuring a ring size if the rest of the shit didn't give it away how many missing women do you have that look the same i found the car yeah she's got a pink purse right she's wearing this shit five foot ten which is tall license plate tall for a girl right uh all this stuff but let me make sure let's get over here and check the ring size on the ring it's not her no but she's a five and a half so nope she was wearing well they have it because they're of her jewelry that she's wearing but she's got uh 14 to 14 carat i'm sorry a 14 carat gold three diamond rings half carat uh um bunch of bunch of she's the most successful person in this town it sounds

like she's doing a bunch of little rings and everything like that she's that's what they're they're looking so they're like if you see jewelry if you see a girl wearing this whatever so her mother afterwards says quote she just didn't act right uh after the conversation she said it was weird she was acting like funny and secretive about it she wouldn't tell her mom meanwhile they all own the restaurant right she like even the daughter has like a legal like percentage of the restaurant interesting if all the whole family that was the deal when they moved there if everybody worked everybody got a piece of it so yeah because there's a lot of brothers and sisters so you gotta you gotta spread it out evenly so um she asked her daughter uh she said quote do you

know this guy at first she told me no then yes okay so this there's nothing this isn't helping the mystery. The magistrate or the cop? Either one. He said, well, what are you talking about? Who do you know? Exactly. So the mother said, quote, I said, quote, can't you tell me who it is?

And she said, no, he'll lose his job. I said, I have an uneasy feeling about you going to meet with this person. She said, mom, I have to go. I'll be back in an hour. And that was the last time I saw her. Oh, no. So this is frightening. This is what people worry about.

Disappearing into thin air. Yeah. In a weird, in a small. This should be safe. Like, you know, there's nobody there. Right. You wouldn't expect this. So they look for her.

Obviously, they're looking for her that day and the next day. She doesn't come home. She's supposed to be back in an hour. There's a lot of fear because it's a small town, and you hear a 19-year-old girl disappeared. And car. And car, thin air. Everybody freaks out because it's a small town.

Word gets around fast. Word echoes through the hollers pretty quickly around these parts. Turns into alien abductions and all that shit. And there are no theories not being floated in this. And I'm not even shitting you. I'm sure of it. There are. Wait till you hear later.

Oh, my. Holy shit. So anyway, they're all freaking out. And by the way, and I would like to show you in this newspaper, it says, quote, people throughout the southern tip of garrett county and the west virginia panhandle yeah have voluntarily searched for her on foot in vehicles and from the air and it's all spelled correctly in the goddamn newspaper west virginia panhandle i love it this is all panhandle behavior here coming up so um the restaurant where she was and she was the cook too

oh that's the other thing oh no kathy cooked she wasn't like waiting tables or like checking people out she wasn't the hostess she was the one cooking oh no so you have to have a certain level of yeah something she just got it together but also the shit's gonna fall apart she's cool though she can throw fucking yeah she can throw food together she's got a cool bronco she's rad sounds like she dresses cool like she's cool yeah this is yeah so anyway uh this whole place the diner becomes the fine kathy center this becomes kathy is missing central headquarters for everybody's there the cops are there it's the last place you've seen alive yeah and this is and it's a small place so everybody can gather at this local you know local center point to do this.

Watch COVID. Oh, now, yeah. 1988, they weren't so concerned. So it's all anybody with a tip, a rumor. Yeah. If you have a rumor, if you heard, I heard two towns over, guys, that you went to the restaurant to tell everybody the rumor. And they wrote it the fuck down. Wow.

And thought about it. Yeah, they put up her prom portrait on the cooler and flyers with her picture on it it's it's fucking sad man this is some sad small town shit oh no uh the police are looking into this um definitely one of them is a guy right here we'll talk about a man named paul william ferrell yeah yes like will like no his name is paul william ferrell like will ferrell yes his name could be will ferrell if he chooses right so that's wonderful but he goes by paul for some reason 20 10 years later he's like i really fucking blew that one huh damn it i could have got a lot of social media following could have helped could help me so paul ferrell here he's born in march 1956 so he's 32 years old at this point 31 years old he is like mr all-american he's a he's a grant county sheriff's deputy right and he's mr all

american um he's like he was a he went to southern high school as well where she graduated. He was a basketball star at Southern High and a Gold Gloves middleweight champion when he was a teenager from West Virginia. The real Southern boy. He's an athlete. He plays basketball, boxes, so he's got different things that he does, good grades, everything like that. Boy, does he love a hot dog. Oh, he loves a good hot dog. His favorite thing. You know it. Hot dog and a beer my favorite oh man he like he likes him a good pageant he can tell you the last 10 miss spring mountain festival pageant winners i'll tell you

right now boy now 1984 that was a champion that was a pageant winner they don't make them like that no more they just don't make them like that no more. They just don't make them like that. She could spit tobacco like, I mean, it was her talent. That's the thing. It wasn't even the distance, which was impressive. Don't get me wrong. It was the accuracy of it that was just. Not even a stream.

More of a ball of spit. It was like a bullet coming out. She's like an air conditioner. They don't make them like that no more remember in a cartoon yeah when an animal gets shot a whole bunch and then he'd spit the bullets back at him in a gun fat that's what it's like it's like daffy duck rejecting bullets just saying i miss 84 that's all that's all i'm saying that was a year yeah they just don't have the same thing anymore they lost the luster now it's time to be alive so he joined the army after that voluntarily um and became a military policeman so that's what he wanted to do which because he wanted to be a policeman when he got home beautiful so after that

he came home um his parents run a country store oh in gormania and it's right across yeah in gormania brother it's gormania country madness brother country store madness we got it all milk eggs come to gormania brother fresh tomatoes we got fresh tomatoes brother over here gormania gormania i'm taking jimmy Wisman down. December the 21st. Gormania 44, brother. Why do they bother? So he's helping his parents run a country store, which is, by the way, one city block, quarter mile, basically, from the Old Mill restaurant where the Fords were. So, yeah, everybody knows each other around here. So he knows them very well.

So he's happy to be in on the investigation. He also has a twin. Oh my God, what? He's got an identical twin, though. He's got an identical twin brother named David. How does this even happen? That's what I mean. How many people are here?

There's 300 people between the two towns and i've found these two people are both got twins it's i don't know if it's the coal or the pollution i don't know what's happening if it weren't for twins there'd only be uh sixty to four people here that's the thing everybody's a twin that's how it works that's a rule i mean you know gotta have twins or you're out this is so weird kick out the holler that fucks up that you could say that twins happen one in every 20,000 or 20,000. Whatever, yeah. Bullshit. It happened twice in 128 years.

But they were in Wilmington. Oh, great point. So then they moved here. We got to find out how many more sets of twins are there is what we need to know. This is bizarre. Anybody from Gourmania around this time, how many sets of twins are there? Is it creepy? Does everyone have like a doppelganger

i just saw you right you're walking down the street and you pass the same guy twice over and over and over he was working at the grocery store i'll walk out and now you're walking into the grocery store without your uniform on what the hell is happening how in the hell did you do that that's amazing well you are fast you are. Did you sell me a car yesterday? You pulled me over, gave me a ticket today? That's super weird, man. How the hell did you do that? You told me it was fast.

Now you're pulling me over. Some bitch. Can't even outrun you. God damn it. So January of 1988, Paul, this is like the last week of January, Paul gets a job as a deputy with the Grant County Sheriff's Department. This is after he's been home a little while and running his parents' store. That seems to be okay.

And now he can go do something else. And they're all set with their store. So he goes and becomes a deputy here, a deputy officer. So he lives in a rented trailer that he gets right around the time he gets the job. He gets a job. He gets a job. He gets his own place. He moves out. He had a couple trailers before this he was renting.

But this is the one where he wanted to be. It's the good trailer here. He lives. It's a good lot. It is. It's near the Stony River. Okay. Which is just where you want to put your trailer.

It's where the trout are. On a hill overlooking the Stony River so you can kayak on down it. It helps me get to the the festival in the spring i mean it's real fast coming home's a real bitch dragging dragging everything that's the hard part that's the hard part try not to drink too damn much yeah it's up it's uphill too i'll tell you what it's hard riding a bicycle up here uphill try kayaking it don't work real well. You need the water to come with you.

Right. The other way is hard. Getting down? No problem. No problem. You fly down. That's fun. You go through the air and woo.

But then you leave a car behind you, brother, as you're flying. But then when you land, it's, you know. Sober you right up. Sober you right up. Then you got to drag that shit up the hill. It's with a thud. So Paul is settling down in his life now right he's 31 years old he's just got a job like that's a long-term job sure a deputy and a sheriff's a sheriff county that's yeah he's gonna work for he's gonna drive around give tickets for 20 years

and he's gonna retire hopefully not piss everybody enough to where to where when i retire they don't go remember that time? You sumbitch. You bastard. There's a lot of you sumbitch rolling around those parts. You sumbitch. Nobody forgets. Morning, Paul, you sumbitch.

Sumbitch. I remember. I remember. They don't even know what they remember anymore. I remember. I remember your dick to me. There's only 120 people. They've all crossed each other at some point, I figure.

It's impossible not to. So he's also in a serious relationship okay that he's been in for a couple of years with a local woman named kathy bernard who has two children another kathy another kathy yeah two kathys so she has two children and um she is you know his age and you know everything like that so rather than kind of starting a family from scratch earlier, he's kind of just, he got himself a family with kids already. So,

and he seems happy and everyone goes good for Paul, not twins, not twins came home from the army, got a job doing what he was doing in the army. And now he's got a trailer and all this stuff. So he's dating this woman. He doesn't live with this woman, but he's been dating her for a while and you know,

whatever. So he is one of three county officers investigating. There's a lot more than that. There's a bunch from Gorman. There's the Gormanian force. There's the state, West Virginia State and Maryland State Police looking. God damn it. It's this 19-year-old girl disappearing into thin air.

They want to find her. And there's not a lot else going on around these parts. So somebody goes missing, you know a that's a red ball so uh they um they're letting him investigate as well even though he has been on the job less than three weeks and also you got ties to her let's not do it like that well on top of that he hasn't been through the academy yet oh he was hired three weeks ago not hired and from training they hire you you go around and apparently they do it here because i don't know it's the middle of goddamn nowhere i can't imagine this is the procedure in a city or anywhere with more than 120 people but they hired him said

okay you're a sheriff's deputy here's the rules basically gave him a rule book gave him a gun and a badge and a car he's got a sheriff's cruiser and a gun and a badge and said there you go and he's not scheduled to go to the academy till april oh so he did do four years of training in the service i think that's that's probably what they're saying they're thinking he knows how to handle a gun he knows how to do this he'll be fine yeah but he doesn't know how to like the procedures and shit like that but they probably figure it's similar and better to have a body out there whatever so he's not supposed to be there but they just they're gonna let him train on the job that's crazy here it's on the job training but to investigate a missing person right don't do that i guess it's they need bodies to just look for they're just looking yeah for where's

her car is the first thing they want to find so yeah but in the event that. I guess it's they need bodies to just look for. They're just looking for where's her car is the first thing they want to find. Yeah, but in the event that they find it, what's the chances that some guy that's been on the case for three weeks can just fuck everything up? Oh, he could grab things. Yeah. Is this? Put mud on it. You guys, I found the car. Oh, damn it.

I test drove it. It's fine. It's all right. It's pretty good. It was dirty inside, so I armor all the steering wheel. You wouldn't believe. Red shit all over it. pretty good it was dirty inside so i armor all the steering wheel you wouldn't believe red shit fingerprints in the red shit that's i was like man you put your fingers right in and i armor all that all up don't worry i've been here smoking in it and just cleaning it up it's good it's good now let me ask her what she wants for it if uh if we ever find her because

this is a nice little car i'll pick me up the family want to resell this if they can't find her i'll tell you what maximum dollar i could find a different one but i already cleaned this one up so yeah they're just sending here's a car and a gun it's two years old it's got like 4 000 miles on it it's a waste finder there you go no academy he wouldn't even know what all the buttons do in the car he's been there literally he's he's going to do the windshield wipers and the sirens come on he's like oh shit damn it wrong thing fuck what happens here he has no idea people he's just driving down the road there's flicking switches and buttons turn signals on and windshield wipers going when sheer liper fluid squirting

windows going up and down just pictured the trunk closing and over just everything for christ's sake jesus christ i'm looking for a missing girl hold on goddamn window will you shut what the fuck is this switch do this friggin this friggin thing this friggin thing so also uh they're doing in addition to the people on the ground they're doing aerial searches of the wood because it's heavy woods around there so you got there's no way to really copter up oh yeah otherwise it's difficult they have uh their private pilot there's the medevac helicopter from the nearby hospital because they're not using that a lot so they just fucking

send it around looking for her oh they need something and if they find her then they can you know drop the helicopter and pick her up and probably need help i would assume she would need help if she's finding her in the woods after a week you know so uh but they couldn't find the missing vehicle they're also over west virginia state police helicopter they couldn't find anything all sorts of aerial searches people are on the ground yeah family's looking it's a all out everything so back to uh paul here paul ferrell uh so no formal on the job training good way to learn this is some panhandle small town shit right here baptism by fire yeah this is when we do small town murder and we're like yeah we make fun of small town police forces and small town this but this is the shit where this is why right they were

like yeah you know he he just it's fine he's good i mean i gave him a gun he should be all right qualified by me poof so uh now her father kathy's father kathy ford's father the friggin freight yard worker slash restaurant owner said uh that uh yeah he he even knew this guy because he had he worked a block block away. So he came in for lunch all the time. So everybody knows each other. And he's like, oh, it's nice to have somebody we know. They feel like they can get the inside dope from. They feel like they're not being told everything.

They'll be like, did you hear anything? Also, he does know her. So he has some reason to go find her. It's very personal. Yeah, at that point, it's very personal. And Mr. Ford said he was one of only three Grant County deputies investigating the disappearance. And he said about Paul, quote, he never questioned me, but I understood he was working on the case. He did say that he knew Paul for a while and said he was, quote, heck of a nice guy.

Yeah. Good guy there. Said he frequently bought lunch at the family restaurant. And because before he was a deputy, he was at the general store and he did all of that so uh yeah knew him well he was happy he was on the job he described uh him he said he was like a casual acquaintance friend of my daughter's yeah they weren't the same age or anything so it was they just knew each other from the restaurant he said um you know he uh they just he said he was a nice guy he'd see him walking around uh all the time with his german shepherd okay he'd just walk his german shepherd

around town when he wasn't working is it a canine german shepherd for the police force i think he's just he's one of those cop guys yeah he's a cop guy wants to be a cop yeah military police guy i fight golden gloves i don't fucking chihuahua you know what i mean he's got his german shepherd he wants everybody to see him as very cop-like. He's a tough man. Yeah. He said, quote, he was a heck of a nice guy. He wasn't overly friendly, but he'd say hi to you and maybe pass the time of day with you.

Okay. So, nice small town fella. Now, after this disappearance of Kathy Ford, some things come to light of other phone calls that have been floating around town. Okay. Similar phone calls that other women have received oh women ranging from ages 19 to 35 what uh all throughout this area so the same day she disappeared kathy two other women received telephone calls from a man saying they were a magistrate the man um however though wasn't couldn't have been a real magistrate because

at the time both the magistrates in grant county west virginia were women oh so he definitely wasn't couldn't have been a real magistrate because at the time both the magistrates in grant county west virginia were women oh so he definitely wasn't a magistrate from grant county west virginia whoever was calling saying he was another benefit of living in a small town where you know who and what a magistrate is you ain't betty or carol so i mean i know betty and i know carol smoke there's no way they sound like they don't sound like you, sir. So at 1050 a.m. that day of the disappearance, February 17th, Robin Tichnell received a call from a man claiming to be a West Virginia magistrate. The magistrate said that he was conducting an investigation of someone she knew and needed to question her at the Mount Storm Fire Hall. Someone sometime between 10 p.m and 3 p.m okay weird five hour window yeah anytime in there i'll be there so

when she asked who or what the investigation concerned he wouldn't tell her so she refused to leave work to meet with him she's like well if you're not going to tell me i'm not going to come if you want to talk to me you can come here right and tell me whatever the fuck you want while i'm working but i'm not going to lose money because you want to talk to me, you can come here and tell me whatever the fuck you want while I'm working. But I'm not going to lose money because you're an idiot. Go out of my way. Yeah. So she didn't meet him.

And he responded that he would have to get in touch with her at a later date. Well, if you can't do it today, then I'll get a hold of you later on in the week and we'll work it out. So another woman received a strange invitation the same day. A woman named Rose Bosley, who was a part time. She worked at the post post office in gorm gormania brother the gormania post office is the site where it goes down brother drop your letters to santa in the box um better have exact change exact change for stamps brother you came in here last week without exact change jimmy wistman and you're gonna pay for it next week at garmania i'm gonna take the post out of your ass you owe me four cents

yeah they went up so um the uh this juanita bosley uh the regular post person there, asked Rose to fill in for her while she made telephone calls to utility companies. who lived across the street from the post office and asked the elderly woman to tell rose bosley to come and get her mail carrier whose car had broken down between bismarck and cherry ridge road so she said hey go tell rose your your carrier needs a ride he's at the place he that these other women were being told to go right so uh very very strange so Trying to get her to come there. But she knew better because the route in Gormania, the postal routes, wouldn't take the carrier on those roads. So they're like, yeah, our carrier doesn't go on those roads. Somebody else's carrier. We're not wasting our time. Ain't us.

Fuck them. So there's that. I love people that do that. Just find a reason that it ain't your job. Well, that ain't my job. I don't know. I could transfer you, but that's kind of a pain in the ass, too. So I'm just going to hang up.

I'm going to be honest with you. It's not us. Bye. Hopefully you call back at somebody more helpful. Love those people. Less depressed and sad about their life. So they form a posse. Okay.

A posse is formed, which you don't feel happens in the 80s. No. When I was a kid in the 80s, I didn't feel any posses were being formed at the time. No, no. You know, apart from the one on Broadway with Mix-A-Lot. Yeah. There weren't many posses. Not a lot of posses happening.

So they form a posse and they're, you know, they're all talking about all the rumors and all this shit. Police also say that in addition to those people, more than a dozen women in the area receive similar calls from a man attempting to lure them to remote areas of Maryland and West Virginia. That is fucking horrifying. That is as frightening as you get. Yeah. Saying that you're this, that. And you get somebody who doesn't know better and they'll listen and they'll do it. I mean, who knows? This is like I'm a Nigerian prince scam.

Right. You got to play the odds. You throw out 100 of them, maybe one person bites on it. Who knows? It's an odds game. It's a numbers game. So this person is this is really terrifying. So on the evening of February 26th, 1988, this is nine days after the disappearance.

Paul Farrell, the deputy here, and two other officers met with a private citizen named Vonda Moreland, who wanted to who wanted advice on organizing a search party for Kathy because she was going to do a big official one rather than just everybody. You know, let's figure out zones and sections to search because now it's just people walking around the woods. It's totally disorganized mess. It's literally literally her brother going around. Oh, Kathy. Right. In the woods. It's passing somebody else going. Oh, oh hey you're out here too what are you doing oh i'm looking for kathy yeah well i already searched back there where'd you start and then you gotta go through all that shit exactly so it makes sense so about an hour and a half after the meeting

though uh paul farrell the deputy here called m. Moreland and asked her if she could call off the search for about 48 hours because the officers had found some evidence and they didn't want people trampling around. Can you not have 50 people trampling around the woods because we have a pretty big area that we need to keep private and we don't have enough people to make a giant perimeter? There's going to be a fucking horde of people walking through our crime scene, possible crime scene. What are we going to do? But Ms. Moreland was unable to get a hold of enough people. This is pre cell phones. of people walking through our crime scene possible crime scene what are we going to do but ms morland was unable to get a hold of enough people this is pre-cell phones yeah so you're basically if you can get a hold of one person tell them tell as many people as you can but if they're walking around the woods you can't find them if they're already out then that's it they're out when they

come home we'll tell them don't do it tomorrow never mind so she couldn't reach enough people to call off the search and uh paul farrell later on called back and said did you get every you know did you get the search called off and uh she told him that she had not been able to get the search called off so he said okay no problem um the search the next day uh go ahead and search around but stay away from these areas basically can you keep everyone just tell everyone to stay away from these areas basically can you keep everyone just tell everyone to stay away from these areas is where the cops are doing their work he says stay away from the bismarck and cherry ridge roads areas there that's where they said the mail carrier had been broken down so

some connections starting to happen so um when asked why they shouldn't search these roads he explained that they found evidence on these roads and we don't need you to search there because there's cops there with evidence. So I found that. Yeah, that's our job. Now you do that. Well, their job, sort of my job, kind of. But still, family wants her back. They want to find Kathy.

She's their treasure and they want to find her. So Mrs. Ford, the mother here, Rosalie, she said, I'm going on the assumption that somebody knows something and that they're not telling me. Kathy would not have left without telling me where she was going or without trying to contact me. She said, if it's money they want, let us know. More important, let us know Kathy's all right and what they want from us so we can get her back safely. Yeah, I would say so. Her brother also says, I just wish i knew anything that was going on anything just let me know that kathy's okay that's all i want so they're willing what

do you want we'll give you we don't care i don't care who you are what you did to give us our daughter back as any parent would feel right this is you know patty melt's gone to shit around here we need her back we need her back for a lot of reasons her brother you heard him say i don't know what's going on around here he means the fucking grill he doesn't know how to work it he has no idea he hasn't he's been cooking everything in a frying pan it's really just terrible the whole place is full of smoke get back get her back i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach stewart pontier i'm one of the filmmakers behind the jinx and i'm excited to bring you have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid, Bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts

you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts so yeah they're obviously anybody i have a night oh it's gotta be my daughter just turned 19 she goes places i don't want her to disappear into nothing so this is very like oh god i don't want this to happen sure so uh her boyfriend darvin moon uh he works at the in a at a sawmill in gorman yeah so uh him with his father put out a $5,000 reward for information concerning her whereabouts. A $2,500 reward is offered for information concerning the location of the silver Ford Bronco. So five grand for her, $2,500 for the car. Yeah.

Whatever. Just $7,500 in body and vehicle. Yeah. And that's the 1988. That's a lot more money. And especially in these parts of this part of the world. That's a shitload of money. That's a shitload of money. That's a lot more money, and especially in these parts of this part of the world. That's a shitload of money. That's a shitload of money.

That's a lot of money. You can buy an acre of land for six grand today. With a fucking stream now. So back then, this is different. You could buy land with $7,500. So March 8th, 1988, there is people look and they see smoke. They heard that smoke has been seen, had been seen hanging over the river on February 17th. They get a rumor of that, that someone saw smoke in this part of the river on February

17th, the day of the disappearance or around then. So they search around this area due to these rumors. This is what the newspaper calls quote an old fashioned posse of neighbors that's some they're armed yeah they're fucking armed shotguns including um the deputies farrell the brothers the father the mother the cousins the aunts the uncles yeah gary ford who's her brother and her boyfriend dar boyfriend Darwin Moon, they end up coming upon and finding her vehicle. They find the Ford Bronco. It's in a remote, wooded area.

That's never good. Near US-50, a few feet from the Stony River, where smoke had been seen kind of hanging on, smoking on the water type of deal, in West Virginia, right across the Maryland border, in Gourmania, brother. Around Gourmania. brother. Or around Gourmania.

So they find the car. The problem is it has been burned. And burned bad. The car is completely torched. They examine it. The interior was gutted by fire. And so any evidence in there would have been burned to a crisp. The tires were melted. Wow, it really got, yeah.

Yeah, burned burning the whole thing it's just a black heap of a fire it's it's a mess here it's been determined that the blaze was intentionally set of course no car burns that much naturally it's a part of it'll burn it'll go out it's cars aren't meant to be real flammable right they're not made to you know ignite into flames and stay lit it's not a dura flame log with wheels it's a fucking car they don't want it to be flammable and apart from a corvair or a pico where the gas explosions happen the fort bronco is pretty safe it's a pretty yeah it used to roll i remember but it didn't explode when it rolled over so that's helpful that's just because rednecks lifted them to unbelievable heights with for no reason then took dirt corners too fast. Wondered why tires came out from under them.

Short wheelbase. Ridiculous vehicle. It is. So they got every physical piece of anything they could get out of the truck and sent it to the Federal Bureau of Tobacco, Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Laboratory for analysis. So they were wondering if they can find anything. Oh, man, this is wild the frame was blackened from the flames her brother rich said that he and darvin moon began looking in the area after a friend told him that a woman reported seeing smoke on the stony river the day his sister disappeared he said quote she said said she had seen she called it a haze along the river.

That's why we kept looking around Mount Storm, which is where we they have all the festivals there. I figure if the motive was to do away with her, they'd have put her in the Bronco and burned her in it. That's why my feelings are. That's what my feelings are, too. This is Rosalie, the mom. That's that she's alive and being held hostage somewhere uh for some reason or another i felt that she's not too far from here but we just don't know where we've just searched everywhere we've been in all the buildings we even went into the cemetery and

looked around oh my these people are just i can't imagine they don't sleep you know they they eat like a fucking sandwich while they're trudging through the woods. Like these people are horrible. It's a horrible way to fucking live. This is terrible. She said, this is Gary, the brother. Quote, there's a lot of suspicion around here. It makes you think, how will I feel about this person next week? Things like this happen in small towns all over the United States.

It's not that uncommon. It just happened to us. So that's, there you go. That's small town murder right there in a nutshell. So the vehicle had been burned, like we said, and we'll tell you where exactly here. The detectives said they were confident that someone with vital information in the case who has yet to come forward will come forward. They said that they set up a private hotline to field confidential calls in case people

are uncomfortable. That's always good. They received 18 or 19 calls, but none of the callers offered specific information about the whereabouts. Just rumors and innuendo and bullshit. I said there might be women who received suspicious calls who went to meet the male caller, saw something, and just drove on by. Because if that many people, they might have pulled up, felt this isn't right, saw some guy standing by himself in the corner in the woods and was like i never mind who the fuck did you see right just get a license plate give us anything anything so it's possible that if they did respond she might be able to offer anything so a meeting spot anything where there might be evidence the this is a uh an officer said i do think the person is familiar

with the area because of the knowledge he do think the person is familiar with the area because of the knowledge he had of the people he called and the location of the vehicle itself is very remote. You'd have to know how to get there. Bronco alone is enough to give you that. Yes. Weird thing is, down by the river ends up being less than 100 yards away

from a trailer. Trailer that is being rented by deputy paul farrell that's where they found find the truck how do you how do you 70 with less than 100 yards away down the down a hill by the bank of the river and his is up on top of a hill maybe he's out looking for shit so yeah so that's that's interesting there um but yeah they're so they're they're confident now they look into the phone calls a little more. According to everything here, each of the calls was made from a telephone in an apartment in Gourmania, brother, here. Law enforcement officers, you know, they're looking into this.

After they find the car, they're suspicious of everything now because they know that the car has been burned. So what they end up doing is they end up looking inside the trailer and doing a little research. They find out the phone calls. A lot of them were coming from an apartment in Gourmania that Paul sometimes shared with his twin brother, Dave. Oh, what the fuck? Who's a student at Allegheny Community College. Does he not know about phone tracing? Yeah, so inside the trailer, they look,

because they're like, that's pretty close. We should probably look in his trailer. He gave, you know, go ahead, go search my trailer, knock yourselves out. Inside the trailer, they discover bloodstains on the floor underneath newly laid carpet and on the walls underneath a brand new coat of paint he's not good at this new carpet and new paint is uh kind of that's not great um so um yeah the sheriff before that had said it indicates to me that the

perpetrator is familiar with the community uh he knows people by name. The perpetrator sounds on the phone very professional and convincing, and he has a good line of communication. He's been here for a while. He has had to have been. So there's that. So they're still looking for Kathy, though, and they're still they found blood, but they don't know what it is. Don't stop looking. And he's only been there for two months in the trailer. So he's like, I don't know what the is. Don't stop looking. And he's only been there for two months in the trailer.

So he's like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I just moved in. Yeah. I mean, when someone rents something, a lot of times they paint and put fucking new carpets down. That's part of rental a lot of times. So they're not real suspicious of him, even though they find blood and there's a car down there. But it's still very circumstantial.

And when you buy a place or rent a place, you're under the impression that you have a lot of people's stuff in there. You would think so. Yeah. So they keep looking. They were looking around Backbone Mountain, searching also. Okay. Rosalie, the mother, refuses to give up.

She's got her high school portrait on the lunch counter looking for clues still. She said, quote, I believe she is still alive. I won't give up. It's a mother's intuition that i have so she's pressing on hardcore and uh everybody else is still searching and they're searching hard still now they're searching even harder since they found a burned out car sure they know that she just didn't drive to california or something so that's a that's a problem um so they talk a lot about the phone calls they know the phone calls are the key to this to investigate. Oh, that's a big deal, yeah.

Yeah, so March 19th, 1988, after they do a little more investigation, they end up arresting Paul Farrell. Really? Yeah, they take his gun and his car away and they arrest him. They arrest him in the apartment where he sometimes stayed, where the calls were made from. That's where they find him. They bring him to the county jail. Now, if we go over this let's let's do this let's let's see what kind of evidence they had to arrest him on the bronco was found in a room it's a very remote area his trailer isn't in it there's not a

trailer park it's a fucking lone trailer on top of a hill that goes down to the river and there's the car burned out 75 yards from his house not good wow um authorities also say they found a cigarette butt of the type that kathy smoked and a watch similar to hers in his trailer not good no um ferrell admitted that the two at this point had been secret lovers he said now he said they've had a relationship for a long time and he's got a girlfriend she's got a boyfriend so they kept it secret but they've been banging hard okay for a fucking while now he said that's what's going on also blood in the trailer also blood in the cargo area of the four-wheel drive sheriff's cruiser assigned to him as well yeah so in there um on march 19 march 11th 1988 is when they questioned him

after getting his search of the trailer permission. And they found out at that point that he had replaced the carpeting in the bedroom. So they end up finding tiny blood spatters in various places on walls, mirrors, ceiling, everywhere in his bedroom. Blood spatter all over the place. Blood had also dripped through the crack between two tiny sections of plyboard plyboard to a floor joist underneath jesus it got deep that's a lot of blood is what that is that's yeah heavy amount it's not a drop no blood was also found in a piece of material in a garbage as well so the fbi was able to identify some of the blood as human and the

blood type was not consistent with the blood of a child of the victim's parents. So that blood of one of the blood in the in the wastebasket didn't belong to her. Also, a cigarette butt, like we said, was found and the cigarette was smoked by someone also. So they don't know that. So anyway, March 20th is when they arrest him. March 25th is when they find the wristwatch of the same type. There's no inscription or anything to know, but it's the same fucking watch. Same swatch she has.

Yes, exactly. That Kathy had received from her father. They find it. It's where they find it that's the thing. They find it near a small burn area behind the mobile home. No. So that looks like you're trying to hide it there, Chief. After the disappearance, it came out about all the different phone calls.

There were two sets of phone calls they found out now. This isn't a new thing. The first set was made between September 28th, 1987 and late November 1987. The second set between February 1st and February 17th, 1988. This is what he does. From September 14th to November 27th, 1987, he had rented a mobile home on the Bayard-Wilson-Corona Road. Between September 28th, 1987 and late November 87, several women in Grant County, West Virginia, nearby Garrett County, Maryland, received unusual phone calls from a man who directed them to various locations near the trailer on Bayard Wilson Corona Road.

Oh, boy. So not good, including the trailer itself and a garage building near the trailer. Why? He's been trying to lure women to that to the house, to the house. And he figured, why? Why am I doing that? Shit, that's not smart. So he posed as various people i'm a magistrate james and i'm gonna need you to come over to uh paul's house not mine but i need you to go to paul's house guy named paul you want to

talk to him why would he do that now he also posed as various other people including a magistrate a police officer a doctor a passing motorist yeah all the recipients were attractive women between the ages of 19 and 35 so he knows what he's doing the doctor you don't remember you came to see me yeah you know i have your test results i need you to come in with all your clothes off that's crazy a young woman said that uh later on that it was that she knew it was him that called her and that uh he had asked for her sister's phone number at work her sister's phone number was later found written on the cover of a phone book in the living quarters of mr farrell of paul and his brother in there so

this is all connected above so dangerous it's a this is very dangerous this is my god ted bundy level scary yeah um worse kind of because he's not just finding a chick in a parking lot and being like i'm gonna pop a cast on and trick her yeah he's he's got a like a chart and a yeah strings connecting the things diagram and the whole thing out this is sick this is sick it's a military operation but it's not gross it's not under wraps though it's just out no no no no no no if this was legal he'd be the best at it that's the thing he'd be great at it but unfortunately for him it's not so it's it's above the ferrell's martin gormania uh the telephone there was a private one listed under

the name of paul ferrell and he used the phone to make many of his calls january 21st 1988 is when he rented the mobile home off bismarck road and from february 1st 1988 to february 17th several young women in the area received strange phone calls in which a man purporting to be someone other than paul ferrell never paul directed them to the area near mr ferrell's trailer on bismarck road similar calls were made earlier to a man who had directed young women to the other trailer part so this is all lining up it gets weirder okay this is fucking crazy paul farrell made a regular practice as of posing as someone while calling people on the phone to get them to do things for them not just to get

them to come come to him okay for a long time now paul Farrell made numerous phone calls to bookstores and libraries across the country. What? It gets weirder, Jimmy. Bookstores and libraries, of course, across the country where 206 to be exact. Oh, my. This isn't a Walden Books over here and a Barnes and Noble and fucking Huntington. This is 206 stores this is

all my library this is every one of them pretty much yeah he posed as a doctor when he called okay this is insane okay he what do you think he's called after what i just said yeah he calls bookstores and libraries posing as a doctor what do you think i'm going to say that what's his scam i'm in the middle of an abortion could you find me this book and tell me what's the next step you know what that would almost be better than what he did at least it'd be funny you know what i mean this is not a prank call what is he doing he called posing as a very serious doctor by the way not a prank call no um seeking information on anal sex and anal stimulation what okay he tried to this is what he would try to do yeah he would try to get a female employee or librarian to read to him oh

jesus that's so gross pages 177 and 178 of the new our bodies ourselves book okay now it's hot to him and he needs some woman to say it so we can tug while she reads it our bodies ourselves are like shit that you give to teenagers so they like know that why their armpits stink now and that you know why jizz is coming out of them so they make it for both people when they touch touch too long. Yes. Now, this is the new Our Bodies, Ourselves, released in 1984. This volume that he's talking about. This is the hot one. This one's, well, it's got apparently full of anal sex and anal stimulation. Right.

Now, this is impossible to find a PDF of online or a Kindle or anything like that. So I ordered this fucking book, praying it would be here by yesterday. Oh, no. And it didn't get here god damn it so i don't know what's on pages 177 and 178 of the new our bodies ourselves yeah besides probably a lot of shit about your butthole that i do know next week you're gonna know so please anyone out there we have hundreds of thousands of listeners if any of you somehow have the 1984 edition very important just 84 edition of the new our bodies ourselves yeah please for the love of god take a picture of pages 177 and 178 and tell me what the fuck was turning this guy on so much i hope that we have a doctor

that listens to this that happens to have that book sitting on his shelf please someone's got that book somebody's it's the female version there's a male and a woman version this is the female version somebody tell me please what is he what the fuck is he whacking to somebody's mom gave that to him or like a gym teacher or something in 1985 someone's got this book in an attic so he probably read it or it's in a lie it's in libraries too yeah he probably read it and was like if a woman read this to me yeah i can't imagine how hard i'm gonna be i'm gonna come hard i'm 206 times he called 206 times his quotes it doesn't run off

his quotes on it are amazing by the way of what he he says. It's wild. We'll get to it. So some of the employees read it to him. Really? Some of them were like, they're like 17-year-old kids that work in a bookstore, and they're like, oh, a doctor called. They need me to read something, and it's very important. Meanwhile, they're like, you know, he's whacking it on the other end. It's disgusting. Slow down.

Read it slower. Yeah, no, no. Go back. I didn't hear that part. From the top again. Start over. Disgusting. So other people wouldn't. They'd they'd refuse they'd say that's gross fuck you you're you know hang up on him so he'd go might be call the next one there's a lot of bookstores a lot of libraries 206 times

206 times so one employee testified later on here that she heard heavier breathing as the conversation went on and said quote it was like the anticipation of hearing another person who the doctor called later said that the caller noticed when the employee missed a paragraph on page 177 and asked if she would go back and read it you missed paragraph two that's the one i really like about it's extra gross get back them. You skipped milk in the prostate. Get back there slowly. Now go. But now you got to read it at half speed.

That's disgusting. So when they asked him about the calls, the police, they said, hey, what's up with all these calls? He said that he made the calls from his girlfriend's residence and from the living quarters up there. He says that he frequently posed as a doctor during these calls because he found it a very easy way to get the information he wanted that way yeah he could just con people wait till you hear the quotes they're amazing but we're still working on evidence and then we'll get to his quotes so this we're still

building the evidence now that's not at all uh the magistrates they found out that obviously um you know there was no he wasn't a magistrate and there was no male magistrates well a grant county magistrate is usually on duty at a satellite office at the mount storm fire halls on hall on wednesdays sometime between 10 30 and 11 a.m on wednesday february 17th 1988 which is when she disappeared the magistrate and her assistant observed paul ferrell using the public pay phone outside of the office oh my god right then the magistrate told her assistant that the man talking on the phone outside was their new sheriff deputy sheriff so they're not suspicious

of anything he's probably calling whoever paul ferrell had just started there obviously and uh he when he went into then went into the truck bay area of the fire hall where a phone available to the public was located and then remained there a while and left he would be btk in oh god yes he would his biggest flaw and everyone knows who he is right is doing this in a town where everybody knows yeah if he was in a city he would be fucking dangerous uh dangerous i mean he's dangerous here but i mean he could have whoa i imagine how many women he could have lured there's more evidence from the room in the family store where the telephone was located mr farrell here could see people come and go from the post office and could also see um another place here he could also is also within sight of the restaurant where

she worked kathy kim nelson lived in a trailer and the trailer nearest to his trailer on the same driveway off the bismarck road they're still far away but that's you know that's a neighbor there but she didn't know paul farrell because he was new to the area she said that between 1 and 2 p.m on february 17th banging and quote terrified screams came from mr farrell's trailer for about a minute followed by a gunshot oh no so that's a lot to take in now a man uh a man then drove out in a light blue car after that which is not her car uh later on she will identify from a photograph that it was paul farrell's car that she has observed departing not not the cruiser. The man drove back one half hour later and then drove out again later in the afternoon,

at which she saw a side view of the driver, and it was him. February 18th, she saw the same man burning something out in the back of Paul Farrell's rented trailer. It's not good. She then learned the man's name when she recognized paul ferrell's picture in the newspaper after his arrest she's like oh that must be paul ferrell that's the guy i see out there so um february 18th he ripped out and burned carpeting from the master bedroom of his trailer replacing it with new carpeting the following day he claimed he did

this because of dark stains and dead animal odor yeah Yeah. However, his girlfriend, Kathy Bernard, visited the trailer on February 14th, Valentine's Day. You know, they were in the bedroom, and she had not noticed any stains on the master bedroom carpet. But she was busy reading 179 through 181. She was, yeah, 77, 178, nor any odors. Mr. Farrell's landlord also had not noticed any stain or odors in the trailer on january 21st when he did a walkthrough with him so he did paul demonstrated concern about the disappearance of kathy ford which is normal so did the rest of the town um kathy bernard on february 20th his girlfriend asked him if he had heard about kathy ford's disappearance you hear about that girl

disappeared paul said that he had heard about it, that he knew who Ms. Ford was, and that he was afraid that people might suspect him or his brother of involvement in the disappearance. He was afraid because Ms. Ford was last seen heading in the direction of Mount Storm where he lives. So that's a pretty general.

That's a pretty weird fear to have. She was driving toward my town. Okay. So on Sunday, February 21st, his girlfriend here, Kathy Bernard, before washing Paul Farrell's clothes, found a pocket, found a note in a pocket. That found in a pocket, a note that dealt with two people posing as a young couple and setting someone up by using a fake identification card. Okay. When she asked Paul about the note, he seemed concerned and explained that someone from the liquor board was going around to various places in the area to try to get them to sell liquor to minors. And the note had something to do with that.

So also he had manifested an obsession with Kathy Ford's disappearance. So he told his girlfriend said, what the fuck are you so obsessed with this for? He said that he knew her well, and they had been intimate about a year before he met his girlfriend here. So he's like, because I used to bang her. That's my ex-girlfriend. It's my ex-girlfriend. However, David, Paul's brother, the twin, said that he knew nothing about anything between Kathy Ford and his brother. And if Paul had had an affair with her,

he would have known about it. Trust me. He talks a lot. And we're twin brothers. He tells me shit. So the Ford Bronco was last seen driving right along, along the Stony river off Bismarck road, directly across the river from the Bronco and running parallel to Bismarck

road, ran cherry Ridge road. Paul Farrell, uh, could reach the spot where the Bronco was running parallel to bismarck road ran cherry ridge road paul ferrell uh could reach the spot where the bronco was burned without going to a main road really yes um his driveway led to a seldom traveled road that led to the site of the burned bronco right to it right to it god the jury so is obviously going to look at that and he also discouraged the search because that's where the fucking was. He told them not to search there. February 29th, he made a collect call from Uniontown, Pennsylvania, to his girlfriend, Kathy, in which he asked her to call the Ford family to say Kathy Ford was all right. Why?

Call them and tell them she's all right. When he asked, pardon? Yeah. Why don't you? Wouldn't you say, why the fuck would i do that i don't know that i don't know that when i asked to you know clarify uh she he said that he asked her to make the calls claiming she was kathy ford oh no don't do yeah paul told this is fucking crazy he asked her to call saying she was kathy ford and that she's all right because he wanted to slow down the investigation so that his telephone calls might not be discovered.

That's the reason why. March 2nd, Kathy Ford's parents received a letter in the mail postmarked in Pittsburgh, February 29th, 1988. This is fucking crazy. Wow. A letter mailed from Uniontown would be postmarked Pittsburgh, apparently. So that's where it was. The letter says this. Quote, the only crime here was we had to get rid of the old man's Bronco right away.

Kathy is 19, an adult, and we had to leave fast. We came into some dangerous money. So here is some money on the Bronco. More will follow. She will call you when she feels it's safe to do so we're heading where i can get some work kathy made me write you so you would not worry she has to she had to get away from moon darvin moon the boyfriend the restaurant and certain people we can we keep the money her green bag her green bank bag. Tell Moon to leave us alone.

Okay, that's the low thing. And in the note was $200 cash. That was down payment on the Bronco. Right. Yeah. So Richard Williams, who's an FBI handwriting expert, will say that the letter and envelope were both written by Paul Farrell. His handwriting, obviously, $200 and $20 bills. Oh, by the way, that same day the letter was mailed, he had withdrawn $200 from the savings account.

So in cash from the bank and $20 bills. So the reaction to this, as you might imagine, people are like, what the she disappears. She's gone. We don't know where she is. And we're arresting a cop in a small town. This is, you know, heads are blowing up here. Obviously, people are losing it about this shit here. 200 people are fucking crazy. One of the Larry Hours, who we'll hear a lot from, he's a county sheriff in West Virginia in Grant County.

He says, more rumors than you can shake a stick at. Of course. Apparently, nobody knows what or whom to believe. He said, we don't know how to cope with it. That's it there and a maryland waitress who doesn't want to give her name said quote you hate to see people take sides in a small area you can't talk bad about your neighbors and you feel sorry for both families this will tear us apart who would take the side there's that evidence small towns are so like

well we don't want to take sides and get in any arguments or nothing so we're just gonna stay out of the hat fields and mccoys that shit lasts a while it's weird uh here's one of his quote one of ferrell's bowling buddies yeah okay he's got he's a big bowler like a league bowler he loves it squad coming out you need your bowling buddies to talk well about they talk bad about you you're done he said quote he has a hell of a good personality and he would do anything for a person uh he said if the police were to ask us for a character reference i'd have to say there's no way he did there's no way he did do it so i thought you were gonna mention his ball or his strike i'll tell you what he has one hell of an average that bought no way he did the little splits like you got a set like you know like a seven nine that's a pain in the ass right but

it's doable but he's like money with those he bounces up off the back pow done every i don't know how the hell he does it boy but i'll tell you what he's got one hell of he raised his average to a 223 this year and he's gonna lead the team man i'm real disappointed personality i thought he was gonna say average yeah that's where i was going next so they all said you know oh we love him here's another uh this is from the postmaster juanita bosley who we heard from quote everybody is upset because the girl is missing and then we find out they suspect a boy from here to have done it it makes it a double tragedy oh boy paul farrell's mother came in yesterday and said quote my paul did not do that i told her maybe your paul didn't do that but if he did he is sick and he needs help that's what she said well yeah obviously up to that point

everybody in town has been a suspect you just don't know it's sad very sad well they don't want it to be mystery somebody from around there but you also don't want it to be somebody that just came through at least that you can wrap your head around your neighbor your neighbor who's on the police force you can't wrap your head around that i'd rather wrap it around that i think yeah because then at least i mean something's safe once they get that guy because there's no way that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying somebody just passing through that shit can happen that can happen but people don't want it to be their neighbors uh here's paul's boss on the police force here uh ours he said right now it doesn't look good for paul or i'm sorry right now it don't look good for paul

that's the way he said it would be exact quote uh we're still continuing the investigation along with other various with various other police departments we are going to keep on this thing as long as it takes anytime a police officer is possibly involved in a crime it just doesn't make that particular police department look bad it makes all the police departments look bad it's a black mark on the grant carry county sheriff's department i hope people don't feel that the whole department is responsible well maybe you shouldn't have given a fucking guy with a yeah no without going through the academy a gun and a car but i think he would have done this without the gun or the car i don't think that was his main issue maybe maybe look at his phone records yeah wow i don't think his badge was the thing that made him do this he was just one of

those john douglas and mine hunter talks about the wannabe cop type is a serial killer archetype it's a bad man the guys they drive a cop car you know auction cop car they have german even still even say they will have a german shepherd type police dog they'll have this type of car they describe this guy to a fucking t except normally this guy doesn't get on the police force right normally this is the guy who gets bounced out in psychological tests yeah he's got he's not physically up to it. There's something. When he pulls up in the retired police, they go, oh, no, no. Exactly. Oh, we're good.

Yeah. With his gut hanging out. This is a different thing. This is like a small town. So he actually got on the police force and he actually had built his whole life up for this and actually did all the things necessary to do it. Small towns see that guy and go, oh, he is ready. Yeah.

And also train him he was the basketball star in high school and then he went off to the army and he was a military police oh we're lucky to have him that's the way they look at it that guy that sawed chicks heads off here and threw the bodies in the in the canals that's what he drove was a retired police car that's the most common thing the guys i think the uh the snipers dc sniper they had one that's one of the most common things is they it's all the police things. They interest their wannabe cops. They want to hang out with cops.

They hang out at cop bars. Those guys. It's all the same shit. Fascinating. He's one of these guys. So then they said that they hours said that he found no reason not to hire Farrell after he conducted a routine background check. It doesn't include phone records.

And how many librarians have you whacked off to in the last month that's not a question they ask in the interview it's rarely a hot chick at the at the library he doesn't he just wants a female voice he doesn't care and then you check for polyps hold on a minute here wait let me i missed my page let me lick my finger what i licked my finger say it again my finger so yeah you did uh hours said we checked his background the whole feral family on the mountain is respected he he had never been arrested at no criminal record he was a veteran and earned a good conduct medal so we had no reason not to hire the fucking guy everybody on the mountain respected him in the investigation. Back to that body.

Still no can't find Kathy. No, not alive or dead or anything. They're looking for her. Can't find her. Her father, Richard C4 Jr. Says that, you know, he's just beside himself. He said that it's ridiculous. He said they met the FBI investigators to get an update on the case.

He said the investigators were tight-lipped about the evidence and they didn't know what to do. He said investigators have no clue about the location of the body. He said, quote, all they would say is they have sufficient evidence to arraign him for murder. So he's like, so does that mean she's dead? What the fuck? So then after that

he says, quote, the next day he says, quote, I know she's dead. There's no the fuck? So then after that, he says, quote, the next day, he says, quote, I know she's dead. There's no doubt about that now. I know better. That's what. So that's the father. He's heard about blood and he's heard about a burn car. He's heard about the screams and the blood.

Don't just run away. That's the thing. Not knowing that they're this concern. Not her, too. She's very responsible and cared about her family and wasn't like a wasn't a flighty person. Mad involved. Very. He says, quote, We're still searching searching for her body but we found nothing at all uh that's about all i

could say right now march 25th 1988 um he's still in jail feral he is one of eight inmates at the county jail which holds 18 prisoners okay so this is like andy griffith there's probably like a key ring on the hanging on a nail and some guy's got a broomstick trying to knock it down and shit. Holding the bone. Yeah, holding the bone like prior to the Caribbean. He's being kept in a cell separate from other inmates, though. They want to separate him. Sure.

It says now March 25, 88. Also, this is when he's due for his hearing. He's going to be arraigned and indicted and um he is arraigned and indicted the prosecutor said that uh there's a lot of unique he's a lot of unique facts in this situation because they're trying him for murder with no body great point it's a hard thing to do in a small town in 1988 oh my god it's a lot harder to with no dna i'm so scared james yeah there's been a few items of physical evidence that have been turned over to various labs. But since then, nothing major has been discovered. All we can do now is present our case to the grand jury and do the rest.

April 25th, 1988. Paul is freed on $100,000 bail. Oh, boy. This guy walking the street scares me at all. Because now he's going to be trying to clean up loose ends. And I don't like that. Any women or anybody's got buried somewhere. Who knows what this fucking guy did. So, Paul, let's get some quotes from paul let's find out what kind of an

asshole he is this is later on uh let's see he says quote i did not kill kathy ford i never hurt her in any way they don't have evidence that i did they have evidence that i made some mistakes and i have admitted here that i did make some mistakes, but I never killed Kathy Ford or harmed her in any way. Okay. Now, they asked him about calls, basically phone calls and shit like that. I heard about some libraries, Paul. That's later. Well, they asked him about Kathy.

How well do they know? Do they know each other? And he said, quote, We loved calling hanging out together because of our backgrounds and the fact that we both run businesses for our families. And they're both twins. And we talk a lot about how people how people irritate us. We talk about that. And she has a lot of plans, but she could really not do anything either because she was stuck there running the store for her family. Her family really depended on her.

So they said, what about the weird? What about page 177 and 178 what's up with that and he says quote it was a phone sex type thing to me yeah he was just oh my god paul it had can't say this it had nothing to do with her and me and it what and what it could and what it would be more the same as calling a phone sex number just i couldn't afford a credit card couldn't afford a credit card he was like 2.99 a minute shit i'm calling the library there's a book with some anal shit in it that really turns me on what's that number here i just need an old broad to read it to me what the fuck jesus christ i look back and it is wrong but it was just something that had nothing to do with

kathy ford or anything wrong wrong it's predatory sexual behavior which only gets worse so not terrific wrong is a real small phrase to be describing that as fucked up weird bat shit fucking what mad it's friggin messed up is what it is. Frigging weird. Frigging creepy as shit. Frigging creepy. So they asked him about, what about stopping the search? And he said, quote, my idea was to stop the search for the vehicle to avoid someone from going in there and finding the vehicle in my backyard.

Well, no fucking shit. Right. Thanks for the simple answer. He said, or finding what i thought maybe uh a body back there too i just panicked he said i did an irrational thing i don't think it says guilt or anything else but it was just something looking back i don't have a real good explanation for just that i panicked you knew that the truck was there you knew that she was missing yes what are you talking about he didn't want her

to be back there because then he said they'll all blame me okay that's what it was so they said well what about the blood in the trailer uh and he's he says jesus they said quote we found blood in your trailer mr farrell what have you got to say about that it's all over the place buckets of blood in there and i said my reaction was bewilderment i said well maybe somebody cut their finger i didn't know i didn't know what they were talking about maybe a speck here i said the trailer was eight years old maybe there was a speck or something cut their finger leaked down to the floor joist yeah the fucking floor joist that means that's like a enough blood to seep that's not cutting a finger

that's losing an arm yeah that's an artery is open that night um wow um that night that he after the killing or after supposedly the february 17th here 8 30 that night uh paul met up with his friends at the local bowling alley and there he heard a woman had been calling and asking for him. I'm sorry, this is the day before he's talking about. Oh, I'm sorry, no, it's that day he's claiming. This is what happened. He's claiming. Day of the murder, he's claiming this. This is all his claim.

He goes, I went to hang out. They said there was a woman on the phone. He said, I went over there to a pay phone and made a call, and Kathy Ford answered real quickly there and started saying that she wanted to see me and that she seemed really upset. She was crying and didn't seem herself and I thought her voice was rather slurred and she mentioned that she really wanted to see me down at the trailer okay so she wanted to see me

I thought she was drunk easy pick I was like hell yeah boy uh so he apparently says that he waited for her at the high school parking lot for 20 minutes, but she never arrived. And he had no idea that she was missing or anything like that or that the police were already looking for her because her parents had called. Didn't know shit. Now, about the vehicle, found 200 yards from his house. He said that he made the decision not to tell anyone. He said he found it himself, obviously, and didn't tell anyone. When I walked out my door, I saw it.

I seen it burning. And I was like, no. He said, quote, initially, I was panicked. I was afraid to go close, afraid of what I might find. How do you explain this? You know, she's dead and she's dead in my backyard, you know, and all these people searching the area and they're all talking about these big searches and about the vehicles in someone's backyard it's in my backyard so um yeah i hate his stories he says my idea was to stop the search for the vehicle listen to what he says listen to

how this obvious this is my idea was to stop the search for the vehicle to avoid someone from going in there and finding that vehicle in my backyard. Well, no fucking shit. That is not what we asked you, you stupid son of a bitch. That's how dumb this guy is. Or finding what I thought maybe was a body back there, too. I just panicked.

I did an irrational thing. I don't think it says guilt, but it was irrational. I disagree. Yeah. Then the cops are like you also wrote a letter yeah sent 200 like there's a lot going on here so you bought the fire truck already yeah this is bad so november 1988 the family finally decides they hold a memorial they decide that it's it's you know hope is up here they hold a memorial for close family and

friends they even like requested people not to come. They basically said it's very close thing. Please, unless you're invited, don't come. Basically, donate to the fire department is what they said. So anyway, late January 1989 is the trial. This last nine days. Okay. Now, there's a couple of points of concern we'll go over very quickly here.

There's a special agent, Curtis, of the FBI. He testified concerning Paul's body movement during a polygraph test. Polygraph test results are not admissible. So this isn't the results of the polygraph. They went around at the prosecution and instead got the FBI guy got the series the fbi guy to say what his body language was during a polygraph which is still technically the polygraph so that's a real gray area yeah very gray area but they let him testify that's admitted into trial um he was testifying as an expert witness with regards to responses observed before and after but not during

the polygraph that's what he said it wasn't during it i didn't even look at him then observed before and after, but not during the polygraph. That's what he said. It wasn't during it. I didn't even look at him then, but before and after. So as part of the interview, Agent Curtis presented Paul with a scenario in which there were two Paul Farrells. This is interesting as fuck, is it not? This case is a trip. And really, there are, because he's got a twin brother. Yeah, there you go. One that was a calm, rational individual,

and another one who acted emotionally and struck out in anger at Kathy Ford. And Agent Curtis testified that while he was verbally presenting the scenario, Mr. Farrell was nodding, which dumb people do when you tell them things, too. They just nod along because they think that you want them to nod. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's agreeing. That listening agreeing that's mainly like i'm thinking about pastries right and you're talking so i'm not or i understand the words coming out of your mouth i'm gonna keep saying yes to signify that i do that's exactly right so um yeah he said that rather than uh he went further than simply stating that

he nodded he opined based on his expertise in interpreting body language, that the nodding was really an admission of guilt. Confirmation of what's happening. Confirmation, which is a real stretch of trial to use. That's tough. Especially when they talk about blood evidence. Blood evidence at trial that revealed approximately 20 samples appeared to be bloodstains taken from his home and Kathy Ford's vehicle were analyzed by the FBI. A forensic seriologist, which is the blood people, testified that her analysis of these samples demonstrated that one contained human protein but could not be confirmed as containing

blood. Five contained blood, which could not be confirmed as human, and the remainder contained human blood. The stains were extremely minute in quantity, and only three were found to contain recognized genetic markers. This is the very beginning of that. They didn't have like, oh, you're fucking 10% Polish, and it wasn't that kind of DNA.

This is, we have certain genetic markers that are similar. They can break it down to like 2% of the population, but they can't get to that's fucking you yet. Not in regular things here. So they said that, however, because of the small quantity, the test purposes, only one was found to contain more than one genetic marker. So the testing process also destroyed the samples because back then they did leaving him with no opportunity later on to get the results verified so that's a problem as well and the state's dna expert admitted that because of the smallness of the sample there's no way to determine whether the blood stains came from the same person

in addition the cigarette butt found uh was the brand smoked by kathy ford in the corner of his living room was tested. Traces of saliva on the filter demonstrated that the smoker had been a type A secretor. A DNA testing expert had previously testified that the blood had come from a female. So there's no known blood sample from Kathy Ford to be used for comparison. So they use samples from her parents and testing for genetic markers. Agent Lynch here testifies that bloodstains analyzed in the course of the police investigation could have come from an offspring of the Fords. So that's good.

But that didn't definitely. Not for sure. Not for sure. They didn't have that, but it's possible. They were asked to compute the percentage of the population that would carry all the genetic markers found in the samples analyzed and she concluded that they were to occur in approximately 0.75 percent of the population okay pretty close yeah that's a that's a pretty good it's pretty good it's not bad blood stain taken from the floor joist of the defendant's bedroom and that's the

one i'd be concerned about because that's where that meant a lot of fucking yeah that's a deep puddle exactly showed the presence of wow whoa phospho oh boy phospho gluco gluco mutas mutase what the fuck is that's a blood enzyme um a blood stain on a paper towel taken from a trash bin all this shit tests determined that kathy ford's father had blood type o and carried the following genetic markers and basically it could have been her, is what they found. 1% of the population has this. Less than one. And her.

And her, yeah. Kim Nelson, but how many are twins? And there's two sets here. Oh, that's the other person. You never fucking know. God damn it. Kim Nelson was on this. She testified.

She's a lot of the strong evidence. She's the neighbor who could see his trailer from her house. She told prosecutors that she heard the screams and everything like that, screaming and gunshots. Farrell never testifies on his own behalf here. So he's being charged with arson, kidnapping and murder in the second degree here. So it goes to the jury. He believes that the prosecutor says that this woman later on will say she was forced to testify and the prosecutor said they never forced her Farrell never testifies a verdict comes in guilty of kidnapping guilty of arson guilty of second-degree murder as well with nobody nobody

based on the blood and the evidence of the burning. Lucky. Sentencing here. You, sir, may fuck off life imprisonment with mercy for kidnapping, five to 18 years for second-degree murder, and one to three years for third-degree arson. All sentences to run consecutively. Oh, boy. Even with the mercy, you're looking at at least 25 years, as he's going to do here.

That's Steve. That's going to do here. So that's Steve. That's pretty good for him. Yeah, he's going to be hopefully that energy will be gone by then. So 1990, he appeals. He appeals first on the nodding, the nodding along all that shit. Confirmation of his fuck ups. Yeah. And the appeals court actually says we agree with the defendant that it was improper for

Agent Curtis to give expert testimony to the effect that he was admitting guilt by nodding while he was speaking to him. It's entirely possible that Mr. Farrell was simply nodding to show that he was listening and in no way agreed with what he was being told. Absolutely. Indeed, the point was strenuously pointed out by the defense counsel as well. the defense council as well the jury is competent to determine the meaning of such everyday non-verbal communications and agent curtis should have not should not have been allowed to add an expert opinion on it however this was a small part of a very long complicated thing uh this they they said this is what you'd call a harmless error that you're not going to reverse on this isn't the this wasn't the factor that made the jurors vote guilty. No. That guy in his nodding. The blood, too.

He doesn't challenge the scientific basis of the bloodstain analysis and all of that. He challenges the conclusions that they made, asserting that it was an error to allow Agent Lynch to testify that bloodstains found at the trailer could have come from Kathy Ford based on all of this shit. Based on some statistical bullshit he's saying. DNA is still not accepted as gospel like it is now. They don't know how much it's caught yet because it hasn't. That's the thing. Yeah, they have no idea. Now, the phone calls. These are hard to explain.

Oh, yeah. He contends in his appeal that evidence of over 206 phone calls to various bookstores and libraries across the country should have been excluded because it was more prejudicial than probative. The state contends the evidence of the phone calls is probative because it established motive intent in a common plan or scheme that he used to get sexual gratification out of misidentifying himself on the phone.

And it was essential to prove the charge of kidnapping that he changed his identity on the phone to get people to do things and the state did not offer uh the phone call evidence to show the defendant was more likely to commit the crime of kidnapping in fact the phone calls don't show that the defendant's character made him more likely to kidnap someone the call simply proved elements essential to the kidnapping case, namely motive and intent, and also tend to show a common plan or scheme. Right. Yes. So, oh, boy. These calls, when considered in conjunction with the calls to local women, are probative because they tend to prove Mr. Farrell uses fraud to entice women out of their fucking.

I love the phone calls. That's maybe the best. That nails the whole thing. Yeah, it nails it for me, too. They also said they do agree that the evidence i'm sorry he said that uh he claims there's insufficient evidence to convict him of kidnapping but they conclude that evidence for kidnapping should be upheld because her fucking car was in his yard basically so uh the prosecution needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he used fraud to entice her near the mobile home for the purpose of gaining a concession or

advantage in the form of sexual gratification. So they were talking about that. Uh, they said he claims the prosecution failed to show that he used force on the victim transporting or confined her. But, um, they said it's clear that kidnapping can be accomplished without force or

compulsion. If you use a fraud to do it, that's still kidnapping. Um, they wouldn't have done that if you use a fraud to do it that's still kidnapping um they wouldn't have done that if you hadn't have lied to them and they said that uh the use of his of his many phone calls to get the shit he wanted is pretty good evidence of that which i mean jesus christ he also claimed he can't be convicted of kidnapping if he's convicted of murder because the kidnapping would be incidental to the murder no no absolutely not that's wrong too um yeah they said that a kidnapping has not been committed he he's bringing up a statute

um it's ridiculous they said you're gonna murder somebody if you don't kidnap them exactly they the case they said here it's highly unlikely that paul farrell enticed kathy to his trailer exclusively in order to kill her rather the, the jury could have reasonably believed that he enticed her to his trailer in order to commit the offense of rape, an offense of which he was not charged because they have no evidence of that. Therefore, we find no reason the defendant cannot be convicted of the separate offenses of kidnapping and murder. Okay.

Then, his last thing is, how do we know she's dead? Okay. Is she really dead? He said that there's insufficient evidence that she was even dead and the body language evidence should not have been used. Jury was improperly instructed. The whole thing's tainted. We're going to settle it all at Gormania, brother.

The West. But also, hold on. Somebody say tanked again. I'm talking. Oh, I'm talking. The West Virginia Supreme Court rejects the appeal by a three to two vote. That's too close. Very close. And the U.S. too close very close and the u.s supreme

court refused to consider the case okay february 1991 they're still looking for kathy um the mother or mr ford said i'll do anything i can to find uh this is the brother i'm sorry i'll do anything i can to find my sister i still go out and search when i have time and when i think of a new place to look this poor fucking guy man these poor people um the richard ford the father said the fbi said it wasn't their job to look for her and most of the searches have been done by friends that's gross he's fucking pissed he said he's really mad at the um everybody for failing to find that's a guy that wants to stop paying federal taxes for sure yeah he's super mad about that daughter fuck you um yeah uh they said i want

to i want to see the brother said i want to see her found and put it to rest once and for all so um now 1992 a magazine comes out saying paul's innocent what called the public eye it's sold in western maryland and in west virginia it's 250 it's a 40 page article by a freelancer named rob martin yant and he claims that this is all bullshit he claims that uh it's a false accusation on paul farrell he claims that um the evidence he reports is very it's really weak right it doesn't compare to all the mountain of the other shit it's like somebody saw darvin moon in the area of this and that he could have gone in killed her in his trailer and all that it's like yeah he could have but more than likely yeah this fucking asshole did it or it's the guy that lives there who if you've got a car burned by your property you're not looking at what it is before you just call

and get somebody to come there's some shit on fire yeah i don't want to go look at it so this bient guy said he had a six-month investigation revealing two witnesses who now claim they were intimidated by prosecutors uh he said kimberly sue nelson of mount storm now says she was coerced by maryland police officials to falsely testify she heard pounding screaming and a gunshot from the trailer yet also said witness tamela kitziller of Mount Storm, now says the prosecutors in the case intimidated her during her testimony, linking Farrell to phone calls to her in 1987. She since determined through hypnosis since then that the telephone calls she received were not from Farrell. So he hooked her up to a hypnotist and then was like, oh, yeah, it's not from him, even though the evidence says it was from him. And there's records of him calling you.

And then was like, oh, yeah, it's not from him, even though the evidence says it was from him. And there's records of him calling you. Nelson Kitzmiller and other several several other prosecution witnesses say that they were frightened into acceptance of Farrell's guilt with unsubstantiated allegations about Farrell and his family. Several say they were told Farrell had been linked to several murders around the Yellowstone National Park and that he had a split personality and that he was a psychopath who must be put away. Yeah. The prosecutor said, quote, I try cases in the courts. I don't try them in newspapers and magazines. The jury found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever. Yeah. Kitzmiller, the one witness, said that I think it's very acute injustice and it needs to be corrected. if the people of this country allow this conviction to stand none of us will be safe from this kind of injustice in the future well if any of you have a burning missing girl's car in your yard call the cops

and then you won't be you fucking jackass so they also say that kathy's alive in this article that's the main reason why he shouldn't be in jail he said he's able to locate two witnesses two people random people who claim they saw kathy a year after she vanished okay well then produce kathy well they said december of 89 a couple from the gorman area was passing through tennessee driving when they visited a restaurant and noticed the waitress looked like kathy okay they noticed the waitress appeared to be nervous when she noticed the couple probably because they're staring at her like creeps maybe because you're weirdos yeah when another waitress came over to them she asked what the husband felt was a strange question for a restaurant off the freeway

she said quote you seem to be strangers here where are you from that's weird i've never seen you before it probably is probably the same people when she uh when she went to talk to the waitress You seem to be strangers here. Where are you from? That's weird. I've never seen you before. It probably is probably the same people. When she went to talk to the waitress that looked like Kathy, then they said Kathy ran back in the kitchen and they couldn't find her after that. So she's still alive, hiding in a diner in Tennessee. Maybe she didn't want to be bothered by some fucking weirdo. Maybe you creeped her out. Maybe you creeped a waitress out. That wasn't anybody. Some young girl who's creeped out old fran let her be the prosecutor said there's

entirely too much evidence here the guilt against this man is absolutely overwhelming absolutely overwhelming he says it twice uh he said a large amount of evidence was presented to the jury ms nelson and ms kitzmiller both testified no promises or threats were made to them i guess it's easy for people to make those kinds of accusations i have not talked to those people since the trial i certainly didn't coerce anybody um it's such a big deal on september 25th 1992 it is featured on unsolved mysteries it's not unsolved robert we don't know where she is that's a mystery but pretty fucking sure we got a good idea i'd check the river i don't know where she is that's a mystery but pretty fucking sure we got a good idea i'd check

the river i don't know i think she's in the fucking river if her car's right next to the river i'd say probably drag the river or check out back of that trailer and dig a bit dig the whole fucking thing up 1994 an appeal based on a small amount of dna small amount since his trial they've repeatedly challenged it obviously the item here uh they wanted better genetic testing now the item was a blanket found in his vehicle in the police vehicle the cruiser that allegedly had tiny stains of blood now um they compared this to samples from her parents and uh they said that after all of this they end up finding out that that sample could not have come from kathy the blanket in his police cruiser so he killed somebody else too or somebody was bleeding and went in the police cruiser they

gave him a blanket who the fuck knows based on that though they allow his release from prison what in 1994 while it reviews the case they put him on home confinement for two years while the case is reviewed they basically let him out on bail while the case is reviewed oh boy um and then after that two years later two years 1996 the court reaffirms the conviction and puts his ass back in prison okay i didn't know we do things like that oh it gets worse time on home confinement by the way counts toward a sentence what uh no maybe half maybe two days at home is one day in prison or five days to one or something i'd go three to one maybe you at your house ain't fucking how often do people try to rape you in the shower in your house jimmy does it happen a

lot to you probably not i'd say how many phone calls is he making the libraries while he's there oh just a tugging away january 2001 in the last two days of governor cecil underwood of west virginia's term son of a bitch one of his final acts in office which went largely unnoticed because he there was a big deal over paid uh comp time payments to his staff or something they made a big deal out of they didn't notice that he that he commuted the sentence of Paul William Farrell here. Commuted it. The author said Farrell's convictions, quote, are not supported by the presence of the alleged victim's body,

a weapon, eyewitnesses, or physical evidence such as fingerprints, hair, or fibers. They didn't mention blood in there, I noticed. Ford's body has never been found, and they prosecuted all of the prosecutors at all this shit. And basically, they're like, no. Underwood's order said, quote, he has proven to be an exemplary inmate as reflected by his institutional record and educational achievements. He had no prior police record. Oh, well, that's great. Then you don't need one.

It would have been different if he had fucking stolen a milky way bar from a fucking convenience store when he was 18 that would have made him worse it's murder who fucking cares so you're saying uh one charge first charge uh we wash it's a pretty good one i think right so you're saying he got caught the first time and that's that means that he's not a criminal so apparently not farrell had requested a fuller conditional pardon, but instead, this governor commutes his sentence to where he is now eligible for parole the next year, 2002, rather than 2020. So, he comes under fire once that comes out in the whole deal there. Singing nobody, no crime. Nobody, no crime.

It's hard to sign these death warrants with nobody and no crime. And I burn a Bronco, leave it in my yard. Nobody, no crime. He doesn't give a fuck. Light a bonfire. Put a watch inside. Nobody, no crime. inside nobody no crime so may of 2004 boy his defense lawyer tells the parole board he's had an outstanding record in uh prison yeah and everything else in the parole board goes i agree

let him out oh my god 2004 fucking out i am terrified of the man um yeah he was uh and his lawyer said the jury did recommend mercy. They knew he'd be parole eligible. Not then. I bet if you said he'll be out in 10 years or 11 years, they'd go, maybe not. Yeah. Maybe let's get whatever. The prosecutor said he ought to have served 20 to 25 years.

To let him out in 15 is really a travesty. It really is. And he's there. He still lives in Gorman, from what I understand. Oh, no. People after that saw him walking around Gorman and Gormanian, brother. it really is and he's there he still lives in gorman from what i understand oh no people after that saw him walking around gorman and gormania brother and they were like um we're a little uncomfortable i hope they do walk by him and say hey paul you sumbitch but yeah you sumbitch you

friggin sumbitch around these parts though they love a good conspiracy and they love a good government's fucking me conspiracy around these parts so it's about 50 50 people think he did it and people think he didn't do it some people think he's a hero oh a lot of there's a lot of people around there who think he was set up by the dirty state and the fbi and the feds and all this shit a lot of people think that about that and that he's an innocent man lots of comet pizza people yeah yeah lots of people that read that article and then didn't read the court documents with the evidence in them like way too much yeah i read the i read all the evidence is what i did i read what they had in science and things like that i didn't just go i don't know i

hear he did that did you hear the one i heard her and her boyfriend because there was someone who came forward you want to frame somebody you take a missing person's car put it right next to them do it they look guilty and they look guilty yeah there was uh somebody who came forward and said a year before that uh kathy had come to them and said that she was afraid of her boyfriend darvin and blah blah blah so it was probably him and they do shit like that and it's like well that's a year before and no so anyway there you go everybody. West Virginia never disappoints. Can we just say that? Never lets us down, does it?

Holy shit. It's a fucking place, man. And I have another one from West Virginia. There's so many from West Virginia. But if you like the episode, please let us know about it. Apple podcast. Freaking review. Five stars.

That was a crazy episode. Come on. Unbelievable. It takes 30 seconds to sign in and do the review i that was a lot of information to find so do that help us out a lot doesn't matter what you say really doesn't tell me um let's see what's what's a good thing uh that was like justice i would like your favorite uh your exact perfect house temperature that you'd like tell me you know dig deep and find uh your best verse to nobody no crime there you go

put it up enjoy so there you go five stars get a good one get a good one damn it head over to shut up and give me murder.com first of all for all the merchandise get your cheer up bitch christmas sweater it's amazing but most of all get your tickets to the virtual live show january 29th not a prisoner dating game an actual episode like we do when we go to the virtual live show January 29th. Not a prisoner dating game. An actual episode like we do when we go to the theaters. Visuals. You get to see everything. You'll be able to hear much better.

About half the people had audio issues last time. We were told it was a connection issue because half the people could hear it perfectly. And apparently if the connection was a little fucked up, the first thing that's fucked up is audio. They tried to explain it technically, but we don't understand we're stupid so we're gonna do our best to make sure whatever that possibility is we're gonna give you every opportunity we can it's gonna sound great yeah it's gonna look good and it's gonna be a lot of fun an actual case right now shut up and give me murder.com january 29th and it'll be up for 72 hours afterwards so get your tickets to that.

14 days? That's about eight, nine days. Good holiday gift there. Get your friend, whoever is into the show, get them tickets to this, and it'll be a lot of fun. Have fun. He or her, some stuff. Yeah. So do that, and also listen to Crime and Sports, obviously.

Listen to PSA Hate This Movie. You can head head over follow us on social media at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram and do all of that and patreon you want patreon so bad patreon.com slash crime and sports anybody above the five dollar level gets access to all of the amazing bonus stuff this week we are going to talk about the crazy goings-on of the United States Football League back in the early 80s for the Crime and Sports episode. Lots of coke and players assaulting owners over back pay and shit.

It's fun. It's a lot of fun. And then the small-town murder one, though. It sounds so much crazier when you say United States. USFO, I know what it means. But when you say it out loud, I'm like, that sounds awful. It sounds like it's going to be silly, like a public access football team. That and small town murders.

We are going to talk about the Manson family, Charles Manson, and the murders and everything. Well, we're not going to get into the murders, but we're going to talk about the Manson family, the cult, and then we're going to compare them to heaven's gate and we're going to compare and contrast these two very different cults from a hippie sex cult to a sexless computer geeks compute like nerd cult it's very fucking different but also very similar veins run through them that we'll talk about i can't wait patreon.com slash crime and sports also jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show like always in addition to that uh if you want to uh just donate and have your name mispronounced at the end of the show you can do that on paypal very easy to do that use go to paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com right and there you go that said jimmy damn it please give me the list of the people they're the the best people in the world, and they would never burn our Bronco.

Who are they, Jimmy? This week's executive producers are Abigail Martin, Jenny in Colorado Springs, Jeff Watson, Frank McKee, Nathan Keller, Kyle Olson, Jordan Bennett, Brittany Ryan, Samantha Saraski, Susanna Platt, Alexander Hall, Molly McDermott, Amanda Bergwick, Abby Lee, Ryan Gaffney, Shanna Brawell. I'm sorry, man. Josh Kohler. Alyssa Casala. Yes. Jess Hall.

Anita Martinez. Claire Olina. Michelle Gulick. Yes, Gulick, I think. Anthony Lambert and Elizabeth Compton. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. You make us.

Thank you. Truly. Absolutely. Other producers this week are kurt lawson uh kayla ruffin sack snatch snack you said sack and snatch in there but i don't know i can't tell what that is that's a tough one yeah kayla for her especially my word janice hill james martyr peyton meadows marissa reit reiman scott uh Vasquez, Killian Cargan, Amanda McPherson, Amanda Knight, Martha Kirkland, Joan Arndt, Rachel Flaherty. Yes.

Nicole Lopez, Mary Westfall, Anna Lipinski, Adam Parmenter, Max Dean. Yeah. And happy birthday. Who is this? What did I do? Oh, it's for Kay. Don't be a bitch, says Max. Okay. Allison happy birthday. Who is this? What did I do? Oh, it's for Kay. Don't be a bitch, says Max. Allison Heimer.

Jessica Massery. Thomas Smith. Jennifer Inglis. Darren Mehal and Jess Stope had an anniversary. Happy anniversary. He's the one that moved from PA to Florida. I think that's how it worked. Abigail Lewandowski.

Steve Schnell. Thanks, Steve. Corey. He's a real scientist himself worked. Abigail Lewandowski, Steve Schnell. Thanks, Steve. Corey. He's a little scientist himself. That's our guy. Corey McKinnon. And he just got a PhD. I think that's what he did. I think that's true. That guy's awesome. I'm pretty sure that's true. Jude Kendall. Happy birthday, Jasmine

Opposian. Rabbi Shmulelalovich. I don't know why that guy makes me do that. It's not his name. it's another dude's name and he tells me you say schmoola lalovich every week god damn it i'm sending you money you better say it i said it you happy now norm resnick tom callahan gallagher what those are not the same name at all i'm like my i now know where my, I'll tell you about it later. Gary Friedman, what is this? Kendon Mockett, Ashley Veal, Kyle Olson, Jeff Linden, Jessica Kuda, Marat Marjevic, what?

Mariah Alexejeva, that's not right either. Michelle Harton, I think that's what it is. That's not right. Martin. That's Martin, right? It's an M? And then Neil. What the hell?

What do I got to say here? Neil Davidnolf? Develdniff? What is happening? David. Nope. That's Barry Grow. Anita Martinez.

Monica Young. And she wrote a nice email. She wrote something nice because I put an exclamation there and then didn't write why I wrote that. Thanks, though. I'm a fucking asshole. Austin Grover, Allison Bennett. All right. Buckle up.

I'm helping my daughter with school, and she struggles with reading because she sees a word, and then she just reads it for what she thinks it is. She auto-fills it. And it's not right. She's way the fuck off. filling and i'm having a real i think she might be dyslexic i don't know what's happening common something's wrong and the anxiety of being online it's a man i'm not doing well with it uh going on jen uh jen de simio michael bowman erica ortiz john john burt benhart zach beal tom gillis miles hubert bruce nope that's brie brie brock chris arcement valerie banks candace edinger uh wendy van winkle what good morning uh morgan sexsmith mike booty booty yeti booty yetoutiet? Oh. I don't know. It's fucking French, and it's not that other ass.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Robert Colesby. Wade Williams. Kalen Harrison. I hear you. Fucking jerk. Matt Apont.

Kathleen F. Legge. Leg. Dennis Dunbar. Christine with no last name. Wayne Reynolds. Zach Golder. Ashley Agnes what? Anna Stockettley Glesman, Megan Bunstetter, Gregory Klein, Beth Bush, Alicia Reby, beth bush alicia alicia rebe okay julia gilchristian gisella fleischer dan zinke uh michael walker christine conway james uh oh yet oh yeah okay i'll take your word for tabby

tabby renee i think fuck lakonda Gaston. Laura Crow. Craw. Okay. Now it's mixing with. The wheels have come off now. I can never do it. And I'm writing it wrong. Kathleen Chapman. Sarah Nash. Peter Marcellus.

Marcellus. Ramona Sovereign. Sovereign? What? Rosa Barsina. David and Sharon McCowan. Louis Garcia. Dylan Leahy.

Sarah Schmuff, Shanna House, Josh Hensley, Linda Whitley, Tamara Kroll, Andrea Sobolenic, Jeremy Ivers, Damian Bouchier, Damian Bouchier, Melissa Benson, James Mills, Damien Bouchier. Start doing like a rehearsal dry run through these. Damien Bouchier. Boucherman.

Melissa Benson. James Mills. Susan Halpern. Dai Zhu. D-Zu. Okay, we're on a roll. It's two letters, first and last name. I still can't get it.

Walter Turner. Kyle Kane. Jill Killian. Carissa Welsh. Bunny Link. Felicity Harpoor. Corey Sousa, Al Corrales, Sarah with no last name, George Alston, Susan Evold, what? Eva Vold? Sarah Rose, Jason, Jason?

That's a weird Jason. J-E-S-U-N? That's not right. I'm like, how is Jason? Campbell. Jason Campbell. What kind-U-N? That's not right. I'm like, how is Jason? Jason. What kind of name is that? Quarterback of the old quarterback of the Redskins. Redskins, right. Andrea Henry, Mike DeGrief, Nick with no last name,

Tia Slusher, Kathy Caretti, Jessica Gibbons, Sarah Holm, Nicole Nicola, Satherly, Trey Jelly, Stephen Carver, Cryer, Chad Colvert, Lauren Chianchiola, Rachel T. Thompson, Mariah King, Angela Heaton, Thompson, Mariah King, Angela Heaton, Josh Ross, James Davin, Amanda Yoshoka, Maxwell, Walter Strickland, Marianne Lozy, Yasmin Chaudhry, Judy Barbulo-Smith, Shakira Fitzhugh, Jeff Huck, Jamie Mayo, Cassie with no last name, Amanda Verdenberg, Jennifer Manhole, Matt Arise. That's what that is. Did you say Manhole?

I did, because I can't write. Cassie Phelps, Travis Pryor, Juliana Thiel, Thiel, yeah, Thiege. What? Thies. Mm-hmm. Karen Volberg-Armer armera i'm sorry sean stafford megan herrera nope here rope here up d cohen sarah fucet danielle baila strucific baila strike now strary john sergeant robin nandon John Campa, Gene Campa, Kyle Thompson, Yvonne Gordon. Oh, my God. I'm a fucking mess, man. katchmeric loud jeff colin underwood devin zandoli uh chandra harbour cody smith emmy zanelli

cameron schmoker carly hegnon caitlin fru and freund sean what the fuck i get two in a row and then it's no cameron schmoker sean rebar Brandon Wegner uh Paisley McCranor Danny Burgess Daniel Jablonski uh Cassidy Perkins Tyler Roebuck Angie Rush Bergen Thielen Gina Thomas, Lori League, Darab, Peclak. I don't know. That's a long pause for that. Matt, what? Schlitt, what? Shuttleworth, DeLayla Goodwin, Tucker Crowley,

Wren Gardner, Becky Gardner, Sonia Lee Pointer. Okay, Gracie, Gracie at Doris, Christopher LeCount, Rose Browning, Ryan Burrows, Shelley Blanchett, Jill Patterson, Kayla McGuire, Ariel Anzone, Jason Hamming, Kathy Morris, Kristen Willey, Jason Hammond, Kathy Morris, Kristen Willey, Kiana Briscoe, Tony A., Alina Nevins, Jefferson Steeleflex, Kate Knowles, Trina Guthier, Paul Amale, is that Paul? Paul Bergen, it's never going to happen, Paul. Robin Outsky. Robin Giannardo. I don't know what that name is.

Angel Hernandez. Trina Gutier. Nope, that's Guthridge. Aaron with no last name. Liz Collins. Michael Morgan. Ashley with no last name. Jocelyn Weaver.

Nope, that's Justin. See, I'm trying my hardest. Greta Grau. Emily Key. nope that's justin see i'm trying my hardest greta growl growl uh emily key there's so many fucking this week this is unbelievable i can't i can't believe it you uh son uh deontre brinson bo or just beau i don't know what that is jesse henske chris with no last name john brindell john helton uh chris aair delaney would know last name dana schmally uh jesse kunkler george win and wegman weg max tim turner kane what kate kate moran rick and stephanie alpine mick alpine kate miller uh veronica nope the veronique elwood uh

meg otto anna anna gervais, like Ricky's daughter, Miss Yoder, Phillip, what is this, Phillip Crap Irving, that's a real name. Heather with no last name, Oliver Delcor, Donette Perry, Ryan Hundell, Herndell, Herndall, Rachel Miller, Sean Platter, Gabrielle Flynn, Carolyn Phillips, Jennifer Helms, Devin Taylor, Michelle Corbett, Jose Mendez, Jason Rochafort, Anthony Harris, Devin Taylor. I think I said that. Frankie Kafka, Kafka, Emily McCauley, Ann Kirk, Tanya with no last name, Alexandria Windhelm, Ashley May, Byron Perry, Draven Smith, Sam Garver, Rosebud Rosendo, Del Real, Kim Lofnane, I don't know, Pasqualeen Mickens, Michael Palacio, uh tiffany martin annabelle patino jalapeno uh aim at amy atwell lisa hefner nancy clark anna h kristin smith dalton with no last name we're almost done god damn it uh stewart rosenthal laurie fralick uh kaleo uh what did i do oh this is a fucking native american name kaleo ka anaka ole

it's not right it's cool as shit but that wasn't right it's way cooler yeah uh hannah uh mess messingham ben schumann zachariah zachariah zacharitch harris folly berkey danny chestnut hail hugh jassel right god not a real man you get it emily guy uh ariel childress how can you put a fucked up name in here and expect me to get that right i'm never gonna pronounce even your fucked up tricks right cassie Jesse Jones, Ari Egan, Ari, sorry. Ryan Wenzel, Sandy, Sam Cooperman, Katie Jones, Mike Virgo, Nicole Lindgren, Courtney with no last name, Emma Rose, Jason Durham, Colin Bronchetti, Bronchetti, Bronchetti, obviously. Akeem Bennett, John Bunger, Brett with L as his last name, no last name. Brett with L is his last name. No last name. Alicia Brown, Paul Good, Justin May, Miranda Land, Acacia Weaver, Ivan Silva, Melissa Stinchcomb, Thomas Gallagher, Feel Good and Duddy, Feeling Good and With Duddy.

I don't know what that is. Kate with no last name. Richard Benson, Lisa Dawkins, Kayla with no last name. Emma Sheppier, Shepler. Kate with no last name. Richard Benson. Lisa Dawkins. Kayla with no last name. Emma Shepier. Shepler. Christina with no last name. Tom Ludwood. Keaton Keaton.

Keaton Kosick. Christina with no last name. Chris Matherly. Megan McLaren. Georgie Bingham. Oh, Georgie. Over there in England. She's fantastic. Yeah, she is.

Caitlin Rose. Leona Green. Chris Orme. Josh Smith. Thomas DeMello. Anna Lease with no last name. caitlin rose uh leona green chris uh or me josh smith thomas de mail de mello uh annalise with no last name koneek uh weich bailey tate mark burnett bernat oh you know because it's not yeah right uh chris or me i said that josh smith uh katie brashiers ch Stinsky, Barb, oh boy, Acey, Ace, Sharon Gomez, Homestretch, Brendan Jones, Will Holmson, Luis Linares, Pollyock, just gloving it. Patrice Rodriguez, Scout Kinsley, Sharon Banks, Jack Reed, Jessica Sprayden, Carrie Merrill, Amy Gay.

Nope, that's Matt Gay. Sorry. Melissa Freeman, Kimberly Pronovost, Matt Bush, David Marley, Harley. I think it's David Harley. Keturah Thorpe and Pickle Daddy, obviously. And Simone Stridham, if you're still listening through all of this shit. Matrius Meyer, thatus, Marius Meyer. That's the guy's name.

He gives a shit and wants to marry you. So he'd love to marry you. Give him a run. Hey, I don't know if he's a good dude, but if you love him, run with it. And all of our patron supporters, you guys are fantastic. Thank you so much for all of this. Thank you, everybody. So much for everything.

We can't thank you enough. We're blown away by the support. You've made it so going on the road this year we could still eat food and pay electric bills and stuff so thank you so much for everything you do for us jimmy what if they wanted to thank you how could they possibly do you can thank me wherever you want i appreciate it truly thank you uh it's uh the the past couple of weeks have been really trying for me and i'm just thankful to have you guys around for it. Thank you.

Where can they find you? Thank you. You know where to find us if you want to copy and paste names or whatever. You got that. That's right. That said, thank you, honestly, everybody, from the bottom of our hearts. We really do appreciate everything you do for us, and we're going to keep doing it over and over with crazy stories just like this

each and every week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. stories just like this each and every week and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.