Small Town Murder - #203 - Love Thy Neighbor in Hampton, New Hampshire

Episode Date: December 24, 2020

This week, in Hampton, New Hampshire, a surprise knock at the door isn't a friendly neighbor, bringing cookies, but is instead, a shadowy figure, with murder on the mind. Everyone is shocked when the truth comes out, as the murderer is one of the last people anyone would suspect... Until you do a little digging into his background. There's craziness, ninja weaponry, and one of the strangest motives ever! Along the way, we find out not all beaches are created equal, that you never can tell when someone will hold a grudge for a ridiculous amount of time, and that everyone is not always what they seem!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hampton, New Hampshire, the words love thy neighbor take on new meaning as a one-sided grudge leads to a suburban showdown. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much happy holidays merry christmas to all you fine fine people out there we're recording this as we're there's like pasta making going on in my house there's a lot of stuff happening right now to all you fine, fine people out there. We're recording this as we're, there's like pasta making going on in my house. There's a lot of stuff happening right now. We're going to record this and program note, we are going to give you this show. Might be a little bit shorter than the normal shows, but that's for a reason

because we are also going to give an extra show this week, an extra show into the feed. So just like normal, not a bonus, not a pay, well, not a, it's a bonus, a pay well not a it's a bonus but not a patreon extra it's just a thank you to everybody for this year yeah you've been wonderful to us thank you we've been stuck obviously like everybody haven't been able to be on the road and things like that and uh you guys have kept us alive yeah and we just want to say thank you and we can't come to all of your houses and say thank you. So we're going to give you an extra episode of some craziness.

And so that'll be coming out on Saturday. So you'll have that to look forward to the day after Christmas. Enjoy everybody. Quickly, though, we'll get through the top of the show. Thank you for all of your reviews this week. Apple podcast, that purple icon reviews help a lot. We don't know why, but heroes do it. Please do it.

It's free. Cost you nothing. icon reviews help a lot we don't know why but heroes do it please do it it's free costs you nothing you can go to shut up and give me murder.com right now and you can get your tickets to the virtual live show january 29th 2021 the virtual live show and it'll be up for 72 hours after that if you can't make it on the 29th it's going to be a real regular episode just like a real live show that we do in the theaters microphones and everything we're gonna look you're gonna go are mine a theater oh no in my house that's what we're gonna do it's what we're trying to do for you for everybody so uh do that shut up and give me

murder.com right now january the 29th get your tickets they are available yeah we're really excited for that we're gonna pretend like we're going to a theater it's gonna be a lot of fun patreon this week oh my goodness patreon is blooming this week as well uh patreon we have the uh we have christmas murders for small town murders patreon which we had so much good feedback about the thanksgiving day murders we had to do the christmas day murders here again it's so great and then crime and sports it's a a present to, a nice holiday gift for everyone out there. We're going to do the personal ads again, which are so much fun. We're going to get that all done. So you can get all of that at patreon.com slash crime and sports and everything there.

And Jimmy will give you a shout out at the end of the show. Mispronounce your name horribly. Or if you just want to have your name mispronounced horribly and still be a producer, can go over to paypal and use our email address crime in sports at gmail.com and make a one-time donation and thank you to everybody that's done everything for us this year really we just can't tell you how much we appreciate everything you've done for us truly there's from march on uh the news every day was awful and getting a notification and a chime that somebody else signed up was it negated most of it

it helped a lot so thank you everybody and also listen to Crime and Sports if you haven't maybe give it a shot this week if you're home you got a little time off possibly or something do it's a good time to check it out Crime and Sports is crazy and also check out PS I Hate This Movie or I have to watch Love Actually this week which is good god help me so there's that it's a bad

it's like the rom-com of all rom-coms holiday i don't know it's like 40 people it's one of those where it's like the front of the the front of the poster is like 15 boxes of all different famous people it's a disaster so it's like cameo it's bad stuff so there's yeah check that out on that's that's coming up this week and disclaimer quickly comedy show everybody this is a comedy show there is horrific murder involved because you know it's called small town murder but it's a comedy show we're comedians we're going to make jokes we do not we go out of our way not to make jokes jokes at the expense of the victim or the victim's family. Why? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. And that's it.

That's how it works there. We make fun of small towns, which everybody's from a small town, and they all have shit to make fun of. Right. We make fun of a police force that might let a murderer walk free for years. We make fun of murderers because we have no other recourse sitting here in our studio. All we can do is make fun of them, and we're good at that. best that's that's what we're best at so we do that so if that sounds good to you we're gonna have a blast if not i don't know maybe give it a shot let the let the holiday

spirit fill you and give let it in let your heart open and try something different and you might not you might not be disappointed cheeks and enjoy the spirit. That's right. And while you're doing that, shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. I would love it. Let's go on a trip. Yeah. Shall we? Let's go all the way to New Hampshire.

I love it there. As I know you would like to go to New Hampshire. I really would. We're stuck here. We're going to Hampton, New Hampshire. I've never heard of it. It's in the southeast corner of the state. Have I heard of it?

Down kind of in the water. Near Massachusetts? Yeah. You've probably kind of gone through it. I've never heard of it. It's in the southeast corner of the state. Have I heard of it? Down kind of in the water. Near Massachusetts? Yeah, you've probably kind of gone through it. I probably drove through it. Yeah, it's a little mini panhandle sticking out all on its own. It's about 50 minutes to Boston. Okay. So it's right there.

35 minutes to Manchester. Oh, I've definitely been there. You've definitely been around there, and it's down by the water, too, so I'm sure you've been there. 25 minutes over to Frem new hampshire which was episode 145 our last new hampshire episode been a while yeah which was november of last year 2019 that was the 107 dildos episode so fremont if you missed fremont you missed a hundred and a man who had 107 dildos that's too many it's that's we found out that that was the number where we were like

i think that's triple digits is where you're hitting this sounds excessive it doesn't seem probably bad until the police are cataloging them one by one counting it counting them taking photos and releasing that to the media i feel like at that point it's embarrassing another one oh boy there's seven more i found there's another closet over here it's in the top shelf is loaded guys i need help we're at 72 are you sure you sure we didn't count those already garbage bag it's full it's tied we didn't do it we didn't it's still tied i can feel it though it's a lot yeah this is in uh rockingham county balls and everything it. This one's got balls. They're squishy. I feel a suction cup.

I think this one's a suction cup. This one's veiny. It's realistic. Real vascular. It's a realistic one. Oh, I turned one on. Shit. How do I... Fuck.

The whole bag's vibrating now. It's deep, too, I think. I don't know which one it is. I think it's deep. Where's the switch on this goddamn thing? Whole bag vibrating. It's deep. You gotta stroke it twice.

Once for on, twice for off. Okay. That's how it works. One of them's a thruster. It's bouncing. It's a thruster. Everybody back off. We got to know what's in this bag.

Back off, everyone. Oh, boy. So this is in Rockingham County. Okay. Area code 603. It's about 15 square miles. About 13 of that's on land because this does leak over into the water. Good size town.

It's a good size town, yeah. The history of this town, which we'll go through extremely briefly here, first called the Plantation of Winnicunnet. Oh. Which caused many slips of the tongue, and so they had to change the name. I'd love to win it. I'm going to the, what's it, the Winnie the Cunt Plantation or some shit? I don't know what the hell I'm going to. So are you winning cunts?

I don't know what's happening there. Sorry to let that word, but you can't. Is that where you're going? Yeah. You can't have N and T in that two, with just an E in the middle to separate, because that E can be left out real easy. Hampton was one of the four original new hampshire towns chartered by the general court of massachusetts which held authority over the

colony yeah uh winnicott that is a it's a minefield i tiptoed through that bad boy is an allegory like a bathroom floor in the middle of the night covered in mousetraps it is go slow legos and mousetraps that's all it's all over the floor watch out walk on your big toe oh boy diptoe it's an allegonquin abenaki word meaning pleasant pines and is that what that apparently means pleasant pines and is the name of the town's high school which i'm sure great all the yeah any opposing team is definitely calling it with the other thing there makes it very easy very easy to chant you're gonna call a high school that and especially the word win is in it too so your own your own people would chant it

your own people would chant it god damn it this is as comedians this is ridiculous that's too easy set before us we're trying to be mature about it i'm doing my best well what are we supposed to do here we're only human so uh anyway this the town was settled in 1638. My word. By a group of parishioners led by Oxford University graduate Reverend Stephen Botcheller, who had formerly preached in Hampton, England. So they brought him over here. Incorporated in 1639. My fuck. Jesus Christ. So old. That's so wild, man.

I love how old everything is. That's so far back. Well, it's right by Boston. And Boston was kind of a main hub here. So in 1679, they had his son-in-law, the bachelor's son-in-law, Christopher Hughes, was appointed by King Charles II to govern the province of New Hampshire. Okay. Governed this. The whole thing.

It's all yours. Govern. province of new hampshire okay governed this whole thing it's all yours govern so uh they they uh built the railroad in 1850 and then trolley lines with exeter and all this type of shit and that became that helped the oceanfront here become a real popular resort area for people from boston that sort of thing so it remains today a tourist destination you can go there and buy shit with seashells glued to it. No problem. I'm sure of it.

No problem with your kid's name on it. Right. Fuck. You know, arranged and glued on seashells. Welcome to Hampton. A lot of that stuff happening here. Notable people from this area. I mean, one that I found that I Bill Alfonso.

If you're a wrestling fan, you know how Bill Alfonso is. He is a referee that hung out. He was an ECW, and he's been around forever. He's from this town, and that's about it. Really? There's a lot of congressmen and shit like that, but nobody that's fun to talk about. So skipping it. Reviews.

Reviews of this town. I have a three-star review here. The water's not impressive to you? No. Some of the people, most of the people like the place, though. But there's some averageness about it. Here we go. Three stars.

Quote, in the winter, especially inland or close to the North Beach, the town is nice. Unfortunately, the tourists from Massachusetts really destroy the quality of life throughout Hampton for the entire summer. Calm down, sir. You're going to review it based upon just the people from boston screaming red socks scores back and forth to each other across the town really making it too loud and annoying and i don't like it i went down uh down the cape for memorial day of a while back and no it was labor day it was labor day because the guy clearly from boston the cab driver screams out the window just as he drives by labor day for no reason at all and that's what this guy's mad about that's what

they're complaining about they just run around screaming labor day and he was the soberest guy around too think about that that's the guy behind the wheel one of the drunk guys doing so uh the beach is overrated trashy crowded and noisy yeah yeah couldn't see the trees or through the fucking forest glued on seashells is what we're getting at young men drive around in a loop blasting rap music showing off whatever ridiculous work they had done to their car lights underneath sounds as if the muffler fell off etc this is like a 60 year old woman yeah writing a hilarious review and i'm loving it right now or man but i feel like the the language is a sharp sharp of a 60 year old woman for some

60 year old woman uh reviewing east la also identical things but no hampton it's really a shame because the year-round residents in town are great. Unfortunately, they are the minority once it's warm enough to even stand outside. So there you go. Here's three stars. It is quiet for the most part. It can get busy during the summer and other hotter times as we have long stretch of beach near us. That's a really weird sentence.

But even still, it remains quiet. So they don't see the blasting rap music from these guys. And these reviews were done a couple months apart. So it's not like 10 years apart. It remains quiet. As far as changes go, I would like to see an increase in diversity and a more robust nightlife. So they want different things, those two reviewers. Here's three stars.

There are some great local food places, beautiful scenery, lots of recreational places, fields, safe neighborhoods, good schools, fun place in the summer. Three stars. Okay. What more do you need? I see no negative in there. So, yeah, that's a hard person to please. What do you want from this town? Difficult.

Free blowjobs, too? You live within five miles of the ocean. I mean, you go to the beach, but there's just no free blowjobs too like what is there you live within five miles of the ocean i mean you know you go to the beach but there's just no free blowjob machine and that's what i'm looking for you know if there was a free blowjob machine then the town would be better maybe they get four stars yeah like a booze faucet and a free blowjob machine i feel like i'd like this town more that's all i'm saying uh here's maybe maybe four i can't promise nothing here's another three stars quote it doesn't seem to be very prevalent around here what what doesn't no punctuation no period and no explanation of what the shit that means and it's under the crime and safety heading so i don't

know what okay so they mean crime and safety crime but that's just one category which one's not very prevalent crime or safety i don't know but it's three stars so if there's no crime what are you saying only three stars right i don't know what's prevalent as fuck then i don't know what's happening over there it's very prevalent somebody just learned what prevalent the word not necessarily definition just yeah they heard it once they were like, prevalent. Maybe they titled it like pussy or drugs or. They changed it to. And then just. No, no.

That was the title of the pussy. Not very prevalent. There is no tie. Yeah. I wish there was. Goddamn explanation. I have the population stayed around like twelve hundred for about a hundred years. Really?

Yeah. From the to the mid-1900s and it's been coming up steadily and really kind of shot up a lot uh in the kind of the urban flight of the late 60s 70s a lot of people came here because it's within driving distance to boston when the word got out exactly so the people right now 15 322 up 25 since 1990 so people are moving there more females than males which makes sense because the median age is 50 uh 50.4 oh which is about 13 years older than normal for average for the rest of the country that's how old you got to be to own property by the beach yeah it's expensive here too as we'll get into less kids than usual too here not a lot of kids it's a lot of kind of older

can afford to live here you're in your 50s maybe your kids are gone already and you know you're coming here married population though it's one of those places 60 as opposed to 50 50 is the norm less single people with no children less single people with children less children in general and less single people yeah so picture a lot of quiet yep quiet couples taking in the evening early retirement and they're enjoying it that's kind of what's going on here uh race of this town 94.2 percent white yeah pretty pretty white i would say 0.1 percent black that close to boston 0.1 percent yeah that is not a lot of point i can't even well i can't when you put that into because i feel like it might be like four guys but you can't go lower than that on this

chart yeah you can't do 0.09 there's no more decimals on what this site offers so there could be three guys there uh three percent asian and uh 0.8 percentpanic oh so wow yeah that's really weird not a lot of anybody incredibly white here very very white older white not a lot of kids keep it quiet everybody keep it down just keep it down a lot of that going on yeah a lot of keep it down i hear rap i'll review this place i swear to fuck blue bloods is on i would like to see what Tom Selleck is doing this week. Keep it down. It's a lot of that going on. NCIS is on in five minutes.

I don't know how to work the DVR, so I have to watch it when it's live. Blue Bloods had the one with Marky Wahlberg, that guy? I think so. Donnie. Donnie Wahlberg. You're one of the new kids on the block, and I feel like it's just Tom Selleck with his walrus mustache still just looking sad now. Walrus mustache and anybody from Boston on TV.

Yeah. Shut up. There's royalty on. Now he does like reverse mortgage commercials. Have you seen those? Oh, my God. It's funny. He's like, a lot of folks will tell you that reverse mortgage is just a way to lose your home.

But some people out there do it a little differently. Like, I'm folksy Tom Selleck. You trust me from Blue Bloods. I was Magnum P.I. I'm trusty Tom Selleck. I don't have a reverse mortgage. There's no fucking way I'll ever have one. I own seven homes.

I've been on television for 45 years. I could give one away and not notice. But I won't. Yeah. So 39% religious here, which it's the only religion really here. It's going to be 29% Catholic because Catholics are the Baptists of the North and especially the Northeast. Yeah.

You're going to get that. Almost 0.3% Jewish. I'm sorry, everybody. Don't worry. In the next couple of weeks, we have New Jersey and New York coming up in the next month. So fingers crossed we're going to get our song. Maybe we will. 0.0% Muslim.

The unemployment rate here is low. A lot of kind of white-collar people here. Median household income normally in the country, $57,000. Here, $78,706. You never dime. You do. thousand here seventy eight thousand seven hundred six dollars so you never dime you do all the over one hundred thousand you know groups are high more percentage higher percentage cost of living 100 being average regular in the rest of the u.s here it is 121 housing is the high one though

housing is a 162 holy and good god median home cost 3733,900, which is outrageous. Only about 10% of the houses are worth less than $200,000 here. So it's rough. And if we've talked you into it, you want to go to a beach town, you want to keep it down and watch Blue Bloods right when it comes on because you don't know how to work the DVR. We have for you the Hampton, New Hampshire real estate report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,870 a month. My God. Which is pricey for a two-bedroom place. To rent, yeah. Yeah, but a lot of that is also driven up by the beachfront properties because the beach front rents are really expensive so that drives the inland rents that are a little lower you know

that's the middle uh three bedroom two bath i found house here 1456 square feet might be manufactured looks like it's got that bottom where it's not attached to the ground type of deal no foundation skirting not the best 269 thousand nine hundred dollars to own a tin box unbelievable yeah i found a four bedroom two bath nineteen hundred fifty two square feet regular house yeah nice okay needs updating though a couple of problems but uh it's nice though 489 000 bucks so that's entry level pretty much for like a real attached to the ground house that's rough and then i found let's say you've done well yeah i want to stretch out by the beach i found a four bedroom three bath 2040 square foot two-story house on the beach like you walk

out of your front yard and you're on sand we're talking uh amazing two million fifty three thousand dollars so that's the difference between on the beach and not on the beach is 1.5 million or so it's a lot of money yeah because otherwise that's the same house that's the second house so no square footage and yeah you're just instead of having a yard you have an ocean that'll cost you a million and a half. And their beaches aren't necessarily sand either. It's a lot of rock. I like those rock beaches.

I'm not a big like beach, sun, fun guy. All that does is it invites people to bring a football or a frisbee or something to throw near you. Get in my fucking way. Yeah, splash sand at you. I'm a hoodie beach guy. I like to have a hoodie on and get some splashing going on. More of like a Northern California, kind of northern up here territory the only splash i want to feel is the mist from a wave from like 30 feet away oregon some shit like that yeah i'm not a big like hey

let's get the jet skis out take your shirt off and get in the water it's not my thing i don't know what's in that water so i don't know i can't see the bottom of it it's freezing fucking cold not to mention august no i don't want in it so things to do in this town the hampton beach seafood festival now you're talking which sounds wonderful until you get into some of the details of it and then it sounds a little less great but still sample the flavors of the sea coast of new england's largest seaside festival over Over 50 restaurants joined together. This sounds great, offering an extensive menu of seafood delicacies. Yeah, I'm in. There's a culinary chef demo you can watch, sample, and learn from the area's top chefs.

The whole thing includes over 60 art and craft dealers, two stages of entertainment, a 200-foot beer tent. tent oh jesus we need 200 feet people are coming from boston people yeah an extra hundred for just for that sidewalk bargain sales and a flea market going on to display of fireworks on saturday night uh choose from favorites like lobster shrimp clams steam broiled barbecued or fried and non-seafood items like the bloomin onion okay great who the fuck throw that thing the fuck out yeah and stick to the seafood the entertainment on two stages they don't even tell you who it is it just says two stages featuring some of the best local bands in the area that's awful so yeah a lot of the on

heroin will be playing here and a lot of bad covers yeah a lot of bad you're not gonna understand it but that right there that used to be love hurts that was that was love hurts no actually that is brett michaels he doesn't have the rights to the song that's why he's singing about chrysanthemums that's why he's singing about every chrysanthemum has its pistol. He knows what he's doing. Oh, boy. Every daffodil has its stamen, and he knows that.

So he's 60 craft persons displaying their wares. Oh, boy. It's $5. They say wares. Wares. Sounds like they're shaking their asses for you. Hey, look what I got. And I made this, too.

They made like a bunch of lines. They really did. The Miss Hampton Beach pageant. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Who wants to be the Miss Hampton Beach? Join us for the 74th Miss Hampton Beach pageant. There's 73 others?

Oh, yeah. At the seashell stage. I want to know what happened to the lives of every one of these winners um you should contact this person little junior miss hampton beach as well no i i want them to stop that i really stop please stop everything under 18 needs to stop and really 18 we don't need to look at that either that feels weird no parading around anyway let's just if they have want to do like a competition of something, skill of some kind, that's fine. But we don't need to parade them.

Whatever the number your state arbitrarily set up as the legal age, you can fuck them. Add five years, then dress them up. Then that's fine. We'll see it then. And then, yeah, you can do that. I was going to say something that was not okay. Okay. I don't mean the other.

Never mind. It was insulting to many people, but not who the other never mind it was insulting to many people but not who you would have thought it was insulting to so 20th annual hampton beach sand sculpting classic oh boy here it is everybody check for updates you know due to covid uh 200 tons of imported sand is dropped on hampton beach and the quote grady bunch starts pounding up the sponsor site i don't know what that means the entire area is illuminated for night viewing through september 13th watch greg grady and the grady bunch oh boy build a mammoth sand demo site oh man there's entries the theme is enchanted land of the sand the sand castle builders are the grady bunch the grady bunch of greg grady hate them yeah he's a dickhole

over 25 000 in person entry awards yeah what the shit is going on here for the best sandcastle massive oh my god sponsors grand finale judging people this is crazy group carve they have one night there better be a hashtag i'm gonna look for this first price six grand what second price four grand third price three grand fourth price two grand people's choice one grand james let's figure out how to start yeah making goddamn sandcastle i didn't know it was so lucrative i'm gonna go all up and down the east coast to sandcastle competitions i'm gonna be the man our jimmy p's coming up from south carolina hey man he took first place down there in pismo. Watch out.

Watch out. He's got a sculpt that you wouldn't believe. Jesus Christ. He built 107 dildos. It was wild. He gave them to a guy. Pretty amazing. All in sand.

Then the seashell stage has nightly shows. We'll go over quickly. August 26th, Brandy. Not Brandy Brandy. Not the real Brand brandy it can't be the real has she fallen that far is she alive still yeah she's alive she's clear yeah i don't think she's married to quentin richardson she's got other shit going on i believe but it says brandy was going to be there uh country mile oh boy martin and kelly yeah whoever that is uh leaving eden okay at least they're leaving yeah um john e and the rockets with an eye oh boy oh boy oh no um c rock one day chippy and the yayas oh boy angela west and showdown the brandy band brandy plays and then i don't know if it's

and then they they play a set earlier i guess to warm up the continentals which better be like a 50s yeah like you know soul group or something and i'm not going to be happy or the the original uh flight attendants from the continental yeah just a little red outfit either that and then they have the time travelers which i hope are some group that thinks they're from the time travelers which i hope are some group that thinks they're from the 50s which i assume that's what it is i hope 60s or something more shit like the 18 that would be hilarious that now you're onto something it's basically mumford and sons yeah that's same band same band so a crime rate in this town what we're interested

in here about one property crime is about one third of the national average so two thirds under the national average pretty damn safe here a bunch of old people sure to get uh violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is a little bit over half the national average so you know it's still pretty damn safe it's about half the national average. But people are, you know. It's so happy when you stay together too long. That's what happens here. So that said, I think it's time.

Let's talk about a murder. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to

discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

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Great. Let's do this here. Let's start out here. Old Hampton Beach. Old Hampton Beach. This sounds like a very murdery place, doesn't it? It sounds fucking relaxing. It sounds like a place, yeah, you'd relax.

You'd go and have some fucking oysters on the weekend. Yeah, a place where you could really stretch out, be old, and yell at teenagers. There you go. You know? With oyster breath. And complain. It's a nice place with just enough to complain about to make an older person happy, I feel like. That's what it is.

Just enough. It's beautiful. It's pretty all that. Yeah. And there's goddamn teenagers. See what I mean? Just that little bit. Why do they sell?

Why do they let them walk around with beer bottles? See? Just that little bit. Why do they sell? Why do they let them walk around with beer bottles? See? Just that little bit. That one little ordinance. I could do with one or two less lighthouses. Do we need this many? Yeah, charming. Okay, great.

You're real charming. We understand. One within eye shot. If you can't see it anymore, build another. It's overkill at that point. How many lighthouses do you need? When you can see four, it's too many. It feels desperate.

Yeah. One lighthouse charm, four desperate. Desperate. You think we are Maine? Stop this. Cover up a little bit. You make me want it more. You know what I'm saying?

Let me use my imagination. Come on. So let's talk about a lady here. Let's talk about a woman named Susan Cook. We're going to go here uh in the 1970s we'll start out with yeah and now in the 1970s she's in her mid-20s and uh she has just gotten divorced in new hampshire in new hampshire she lives up here she lives around the hampton area just got divorced has a son yeah and works double shifts at Pizza Hut. Oh, my.

That is her life right now. So she is frustrated. Hardworking, everybody says. Exhausted, though. Exhausted, yeah. Trying to make it as a single mom in the 70s was not the same as... It's just different. It was hard to be a single parent back then.

It's hard now. I'm not saying that at all. Finding a job back then, you hard now it's i'm not saying that at all finding a job back then you had to actually go find yeah you couldn't like apply for a hundred a hundred things in a day take your car and go drive for people you'd have to like you'd have to make an effort well i mean you have to make an effort now but you'd have to make like you'd have to go physically write your name and experience in boxes and hand it to a man or a woman most likely in the 70s a man yeah and you know then go yeah and have him tell you no yeah or wait for him to call you right so that's

how it worked but she's working hard double shifts at pizza hut with a son here so it's rough a little bit rough she meets a man in 1980 though that that kind of takes a little bit of this away and makes life a little bit easier for her um and she's looking for she wants to have a family sure she wants to have a that's what she was looking for when she got married i guess the husband wasn't into the whole thing and that's what that was the the problem so she meets a man in 1980 named robert mclaughlin yeah who let's say sounds very upstanding robert mclaughlin uh they get married pretty quickly hell yeah in 1980 yeah they get married right away which seems yeah this looks like everything's on track right all fixed off everybody's happy had a little speed

bump a little speed bump now everybody's happy because he's been a divorced guy too mclaughlin's got he's divorced as well so you know you figure it makes sense you know a couple people that know that have made one wrong turn and they're like okay yeah i don't want to do that again and a lot of times that's best in a relationship so uh now they get married in 1980 the weird thing is she gives her son from the former marriage gives the son to her husband and basically says he's yours now i gotta go i have a new thing i got going on and she quits and she yeah like just quits the son pretty much at that moment and divorce and everything no they've gotten divorced the first she's just divorced from her first marriage got it her son from her first marriage when she marries mclaughlin she just

gives her son to her ex-husband what the fuck and says well i'm starting a new life so he's yours now and that's it she doesn't see him anymore can't do that oh that's it i mean it's gone he's like she never existed okay which is very strange uh this is like the way people used to do it in like the 50s yeah but moms weren't usually the ones that did it no the mom usually yeah yeah exactly if it was the father was like a real bastard he'd be like i'm gonna take the kids from you and then he'd you know take the kids from the mom or something if they you know whatever but a lot of times the father there would be a divorce or whatever the father would leave and they'd start a new family that was it yeah that was a different family now they didn't see them anymore

and it's kind of how it used to be but that's how my family it worked out like that my grandmother got a divorce i didn't meet my actual grandfather till i was 12 i think when my father my grandfather that i knew died and he came around was like hi and then he died like a month later i was like well thanks a lot that helped yeah that helped to know you for a month and then you croaked. Appreciate it. I'm going through it. Yeah, it was perfect. So I got two dead grandfathers. Thanks. But that's kind of how it was.

You just disappeared your family. But this was a different story. In 1980, there was visitation and weekends. And divorce was common by then to where we worked out how to deal with the kids. We perfected that part. Yeah. I mean, 1980, my parents split up by then, and I saw both of them. So, I mean, there was no – my dad didn't just not talk to me anymore and start a new family.

So I went to his house on Saturday. Mine did. Then he started nine more. Then he got a few families. He's got a couple working on it. And then when he realized all that doesn't work, then he came back. Well, he's going for quantity, Jimmy. You know what?

Appreciate it. He had a mission in mind. That's the thing. He had something he was thinking about he wanted to do, and he did it. So I'm going to give him credit for his drive. So you want more of everything. It's virility, if nothing else. Quality.

Yeah. So anyway, she gives the son to her first husband raymond mcdaniels um there uh gives the kid back to the father it's weird that she marries two guys that are nick yeah that's very strange i don't know that close to it is northeast yeah yeah it's probably not that far off the town so there you go uh she said that she had to give the son up because mclaughlin her new husband had given her what she said quote an ultimatum my son or him oh so yeah this is coming from him is what she says so she's marrying a guy that's jealous of the kids attention that says yeah if we're going to start a family we're going to start a family but you're you know i don't want

not with that one i don't want your kid around yeah that's not my son and i want no part of him basically so that's nice guy yeah that's by the way uh that's a bad sign it's called red flags yeah that's a that's a huge red flag if they're like i like you but i don't ever want to see your child can you give him away bad sign you know this is all going great yeah if you can get rid of that just that that person standing over there that you've put a lot of your time and effort into that body it's yeah that's and that goes for either gender yeah either way not good yeah they should be embracing of your children somebody should be thrilled yeah now robert mclaughlin that's actually not his original name okay so he he's a little bit of a character, McLaughlin.

Oh, yeah. I'm finding out. Just right away, you can tell from the red flag. This guy's an asshole. I led with the kid thing rather than his history. Just to give you a... That's how much of a red flag that is. If that comes up, just no matter what you think,

because on the surface, it could look like everything else is fine it's just this one weird thing that this person thinks i don't want to be around my kid it's not though it's more this is like a tooth the root is way deeper than you think it is and it's black and rotten fucking deep in there man so he uh before he changed his name because he changed his name uh he changed his name for a couple reasons number one when he was 15 he accidentally killed his friend oh my while playing around with a gun okay uh they were fucking around with guns when he was 15 this is you know he's right he's about he's a few years older than her too he's in his mid-30s right now so this is in you know christ the the goddamn 40s or something he's dicking around yeah dicking

around with a gun with somebody yeah the early 50s yeah they're playing cowboys and indians what they did back then or cops and robbers running around i don't know whatever they were doing 15 seems a little old for that no matter what happened we don't understand what exactly what happened but uh he killed his friend when he was 15 and a judge he is charged actually for it as well and everything they don't just go up you know it's an accident he's charged a judge ends up dropping the charge in the end for lack of criminal intent so okay apparently you know careless i had a slingshot when i was 14 and a friend threw up a piece of wood for me to shoot it in the air and i just tracked it down till it was like eye level and I let go and I shot my friend in the fucking

oh yeah yeah yeah slingshot so I could see it I told you about the flaming spear flying through the air I had another friend who had a pellet gun yeah we all had pellet guns as children so it was the other thing pellet guns and slingshots were the go-to it was one of the pump crossman oh you could pump you could pump those up 20 times and kill a bear like with a fucking pellet they're really strong in their ass cheeks from them oh yeah oh yeah i've shot yeah we've broken skin many times that was that was fun back we women are always like why are guys so weird because we shoot each other for fun we're weird people that's why we're like oh that hurt really bad i'm gonna shoot you in your right ball how's that how's that feel so we're walking one time walking down and all of a sudden my friend goes ow because right between the eyes he got hit with

a fucking pellet oh my that's a great skin yeah cause blood a fucking lucky shot because we found out my friend that shot it was 150 yards away yeah a hundred he had no way he didn't have a goddamn he's not a military but it's a friggin crossbow or a pellet gun with the sights that you just he wasn't even aiming at him oh he was aiming but i mean he didn't know precisely where he was gonna hit him he was just aiming at his head in the general direction of a centimeter from his eyeball, which completely blinded him because it broke the skin of his forehead. Unbelievable. That's how dumb we were.

And yeah, so this 15, I don't know what it is. I'm going to anything. I'll give you a pass, I guess, because you're idiots. Well, who knows who took the gun out? What the what the game was? We don't know. The law didn't give him a pass. He paid his debt to society.

We'll wash it. Yeah, the law said he's fine. That's fine. But, and I would let it go. And I'd say maybe he's just misunderstood, except that then, very shortly after that, he held up the Salisbury Diner with a gun. Why would he have ever a gun again? Yeah, well, apparently that that instead of uh

scaring him away from playing with guns emboldened him to hey these things can kill people wow i bet they'll give me money if i point it at him i mean it's a pretty logical next step i guess yeah um and he ends up spending a year in reform school for that because he was like not even 16 years old yet so we were so lenient reform school reform school for an already murderer but reform school back then was juvenile hall it's a great that's what that was because charlie manson grew up in reform schools that were jails where he was being constantly you know attacked and everything tortured it wasn't even a place where they like helped the kids they just kept them all together yeah and hurt each each other. Hurt each other and learn crime from each other.

Get better at that. Teach each other crime. But just do it in the middle, like a big orgy of Royal Rumble insanity. And openly. And openly. We won't even police it. And have orgies, I guess. I don't know.

You guys, yeah, it's not good. Forced or willing, we don't care. Whatever. So he ends up after this, he gets out of reform school here, and now he's got a body and an armed robbery on him pre-18. So you know what? I think it's time to have a start with a clean slate at this point. You know what I mean?

You don't want to go. Your name is fucked at 17. Your name is just that's bad when your name is garbage by 17. Useless. So he changes his name. His name was Robert Randall. That's how when your name is garbage by 17. Useless. So he changes his name. His name was Robert Randall. That's how he's born. But he changes it to Robert McLaughlin, which I don't know why or where he got that from,

but he changed it after the reform school stint. So he's a new man now. He comes out and it's like it never happened. He pretends like it never happened. Saw an ASPCA commercial and was like, there's the girl. There's the name. That's it. Taking that one.

McLaughlin. That sounds beautiful. He's watching that guy in the 80s screaming at people in a circle. Remember the SNL sketch about that? That was a great sketch. It was wrong. Everything was wrong. No matter.

Who was that? What do you think? It was Dana Carvey. It wasn't? Wrong! Yeah. And then he'd say his opinion, what it was, and that was the right answer. That was an actual show.

Is that Dana Carvey? It was Dana Carvey, I think. He's such a genius. He was good. He was good shit. He was good at impressions. Dana. He was good at yelling.

He was a good yeller, Dana Carvey, which was always good back then. Which is fascinating, because later on, he just kind of stopped that altogether. Yeah. Yelling was not part of his life at yelling impressions were always funny and then he gave up on it and then he's like never mind i don't know george bush is fun to do i could just do it yeah it worked for him though that's what got him paid the most and garth no need to yell as garth and a church lady so um now robert mclaughlin when he marries her in 1980, did I mention, by the way, pray tell, Jimmy, pray tell.

Did I mention that he is a Hampton, New Hampshire police officer? How the hell? With 10 years on the job. How did that even happen? Yeah. Two years after he got out of reform school or whatever. No, a few years after that, because he was in his mid 20s. reform school or whatever no a few years after that because he was in his mid-20s he gets a job at the uh at the hampton at the hampton uh police police department he passed the background check

because he changed his name yeah and they just didn't even he didn't mention that oh by the way yeah that's not my real name he just said robert mclaughlin they looked him up be clean as a whistle here's here you go pal clean as a whistle sister sarah here's a job there you go buddy here's uh get out there and stop crime okay try not to cause any pleas that's the main part now okay so right away this guy get rid of the kid yeah um shot his friend accident we'll give him a pass on that armed robbery i've never done that one so that i can't give him a pass on that one you know I've never done that one. So that I can't give him a pass on that one. You know, I've ever shot my friend either, but I could see how that could happen accidentally, especially in the 50s when people were willy nilly a little more with, you know, there was a lot less like safety precautions with guns and shit like that.

There was no gun safes and people just left them on the goddamn table shootings. That was the thing. It was a different open public executions of just citizens yeah it didn't happen and if you lived in rural areas kids all had guns because they'd go out they go in the woods they'd shoot squirrels and shit that was like considered normal youthful behavior it wasn't even to survive it was just to have something to do yeah literally to play davy crockett or whatever the fuck back then because that's i don't know it's they were pretending like they were in the 1800s. That is insane.

So, yeah. Anyway, so this is all the guys are kind of a shady guy when it comes to all this is a little bit of an interesting fella. Then you hear about his personal life after he joined the police force post name change and everything. He was married and had a wife, a son, by the way, a junior named after him. Really? Robert McLaughlin Jr. Yeah. It's not really.

Not really, but legally it's his name. He changed it. And two daughters as well. So a wife and three children, three small children he had, and they got a divorce and he just got rid of them, left them, never didn't really have much to do with them after that. People are mad disposable to this guy. Exactly.

Very disposable people. He doesn't have a lot when it comes to that. His first wife, Beverly, was her name. She said that during their marriage, he this is interesting, quote, often held a gun to her head yeah and threatened her with a hunting knife so just like on a saturday that's what i mean this isn't like yeah one time i killed the baby you know one time i threw the baby in a vat of boiling water and he held a hunting knife to my there's nothing like there was no incident there's no one time he went crazy or what this is he often held a gun to my head like i feel like that's a normal way of life here

which is you know pretty fucked up especially for a guy who has shot somebody right killed a friend and held up a diner and duped the police force into hiring this yeah and now the gun he's holding to her head is probably city issued right Right. So this is county county property. Yeah. Wow. The bullet I'm going to put into your head is county property. I paid for that stuff. My time.

You paid for it. How do you feel? How do you feel about that? That's messed up. And a hunting knife. So scary guy. Scary guy. But in the police force, though, he received letters of commendation from the department

for his police work after. And there's an armed robbery of a Hampton Falls gun shop in the 1970s, which seems ballsy. That's the worst place to rob. Let's rob the gun shop. They'll never be expecting it. That's a good point. It's the only thing that they would look at you like, are you really robbing the gun shop? We have all the guns.

I have a bazooka. What are you doing? Why would you do this? I have like machine guns and shit back here. You should see the back room. It's illegal as shit. I got stuff I had to buy from the army back there. It's wild.

It's crazy. Like the Russian army. It's black market. I have shit that I could kill you with that will blow up so big and nobody will even hear it. It's crazy. It's so quiet it's that do you really want this my store will be a mushroom cloud but that's a separation you want to do this but apparently they did he uh he ended up ended up uh assisting in capturing the man there um and uh apparently it was, and another one was assistance in capturing a man in April 1986 later on after the attempted murder of a police officer. Somebody tried to kill a police officer.

This was the guy who caught him. So he's gotten a couple commendations and things like that. It's amazing. It's like you can think like a criminal. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. A cop, that's very beneficial and well a lot of times too and this is again going back to the homicide book they talk about it only because

that's the most in-depth kind of of the homicide and all that sort of thing a lot of the guys are either kind of their family is in law enforcement fire you know military things of that nature or a lot of times it's you know i don't know i went to juvie a little bit i did this i fucked around it was like i needed a steady job and you know i know the streets and i know this and i joined the police force that was a big thing back in the day that people used to do like half of the new york city police force were like you know guys from the neighborhood that's why they ended up taking money from these guys because they knew them and letting things operate it's just you know they were all kind of it's a very thin line in a lot of areas between that thin blue thin yeah because

i mean who wants to deal with crime you know it's either people who really want to do good or criminals that is fascinating too because then who do you who do you lock up the guys you don't like or that could that could be a dangerous road to walk it is well that's why yeah back in the day in new york and shit when you had all the cops taking yeah bribes and shit they knew the guys they knew the guys they were dealing with they grew up with them hey i went to school with this guy i know this guy i'm around the neighborhood with this guy hey we're doing this i bet your family could use a few extra bucks every month all you gotta do is look the other way over here sure could but then the guys on the other side of town are gonna be pissed and they're gonna want to kill me because i'm letting you profit it's a mess man yeah it's

wild stuff that's why it was uh it's complicated so he ends up uh a neighbor of his it turns out to be a neighbor of his is one guy who doesn't find robert mclaughlin so commendable yeah not really loving this guy. Charms worn off. Charms worn off for him. This is a guy named Robert Cushing Sr. He's got a junior as well. Now, he is born in 1925.

So they kind of have their encounter, McLaughlin and Cushing, in 1975. So he's, you know, 50 years old, Cushing. He's a smart guy. He's number one a world war ii marine okay so first and foremost the guy fought hitler so he's put up with some shit don't care yeah whatever the hell anything else we've gone over this before and it's so funny because it's the whenever we say anything basically any joke that comes out of our mouths we're like well we you automatically calculate in your brain what percentage of the audience that pissed off right because no matter what you joke about it's there's no way someone's not like i

didn't like that joke somebody doesn't like the joke even if it's you know if the half a million people if three people don't like the joke there's three people that don't like the joke. Actually crowd the people actually actually. Exactly. So you don't like comedy is what it is. Yeah. Jokes are exaggerations and shit like that. So the actually thing, the reason why we say don't do the actually thing is because for a joke, the whole point is it wasn't supposed to be accurate.

Right. That was the point. That's the point of a joke. It's not accurate and it's ridiculous. And you have to exaggerate something to make it... And in every single joke, something gets made fun of. Yeah. It's not... It's only shitty when it's something that's sacred to you.

The difference between normal people and me and James is that zero is sacred. Yeah. You can't offend us personally. You could say anything about whatever of us and it's fine other people we'd be offended about but not for us personally nothing nothing that i am you can offend me with i will be offended for uh rape survivors yeah for some sort of distasteful rape joke but yeah not for myself it's a different thing yeah you're you're and that's you're right to feel

that way because that's something that happened to you the way i process so you process it how you want that's the thing yeah and we've talked about many times you know death and shit this is the way i deal with it because i've yeah it's the same shit we've all had our our weirdnesses and this is how it's manifested itself into a show that's how i handle it but we always calculate okay that's going to piss some but we always calculate okay that's gonna piss some people off and one thing that we said that i was like for some reason even though it's right and accurate and funny and fair someone's gonna get annoyed at us and it won't be the military guys it'll be people that like military people that aren't actually in the

military will be mad at us and nobody actually was and we got tons of like guys in the military and women in the military sending us shit going. Yeah, totally. That's how it is. Because we were like, no matter what it is now, and it's very difficult and all that things to be in any form of service or anything like that, no matter what you've done since then or before, then they beat Hitler.

There's the worst Hitler ever. It's actually Hitler. You know how you say that guy's like Hitler. That guy was a lot like Hitler because because he fucking was hitler actual hitler so anybody in world war two gets like extra bonus credit for beating hitler the guy that made the famous mustache yeah it's like he yeah you can ruin facial hair with one swoop you're a bad guy a whole form of facial hair he rivals jesus Jesus in fame for opposite reasons. That's the thing.

That's crazy. Yeah. Anybody who fought, we're not saying anybody else we have less respect for, but you have extra respect for someone who beat Hitler. I don't know. You just do. Maybe I do have a little less respect. But it's not their fault.

That's what I mean. There is no... No. I said, there's no Hitler... You didn't have anybody to fight to earn the respect. Whoever's in there if there was a hitler and you said hitler's that way they'd go fucking get hitler it's i mean we totally it's not like anything slight to anybody now you just haven't been challenged to find out if you're tough enough to get hitler you're running in place going where's hitler i'm waiting for hitler to pop up we get it hitler's that way guys we get

it you're willing to try everybody hitler everybody would turn in that direction we understand it that's not the problem but i'm just saying these big guys actually had to fight hitler which was rough it's pretty bad so yeah we got no backlash about that i was actually so happy i was like our audience is wonderful really that they actually they're mature enough to understand and especially all the military people were like oh my god totally i don't know maybe i like our army now and our soldiers now more because they're willing to go fight people that aren't even labeled that they're our enemy you know what i mean yeah before you could tell they've got the fucking crosses and shit on their chest we know who right we know who to fight right these guys aren't dressed in anything that's together one guy's wearing an

under armor shirt firing a fucking rifle at us what the fuck is that who knows jesus what is that under armor this guy's in a fucking adidas shirt planting bombs in the road steph curry doing so cushing senior so he's a world war two marine a former school teacher and a current real estate agent and father of seven children. He's the busiest man on earth. He's done a lot. He grew up in Hampton. He taught math in Amesbury, Massachusetts schools and in elementary schools in Seabrook. And then he retired and turned to real estate sales and became a success at that.

He's a successful guy, basically. Just one of those people. Just doing it. He does stuff. of success at that he's a successful guy basically just one of those people just doing it he's does stuff served as director of the local board of realtors and was twice recognized as the salesman of the year by his company he doesn't just sell houses he's the best he's the best up to it including making children he's the best he's just good at it yeah he's got the most potent sperm very effective he's gonna beat hitler sells houses make you learn algebra he's got a lot going

on and his son uh his son who ends up being a councilman later on or a state um legislator actually uh at the time was a political activist this is renny it's i think it's robert jr but he goes by renny okay uh he's uh he's a political activist at the time fighting like local nuclear activities and like uh environmental things for the beach okay he's very active in local politics and so is robert cushing senior as well he's always uh he complains about the local like the council the town council yeah he's one of these guys he's you know and he's a smart guy and he's like these people are idiots and he's one of these guys so he's like, these people are idiots. And he's one of these guys. So he's kind of fun. That is fun, too, to make fun of politicians.

It's fun. You volunteered for this job, motherfucker. Why would you do that? Why are you so lazy? So in 1975, there was a little problem between Robert and Robert, McLaughlin and Cushing. There's an issue. McLaughlin ends up arresting Cushing in 1975 on misdemeanor charges. Now, the arrest occurred at the scene of a fatal accident in front of Cushing's house.

There was a car wreck, and two teenagers were killed in the car. Oh, my. So I guess they were taking a bunch of pictures of the teenagers. The police were. I don't know if they were i assume that's what they do i'd take you know pictures of an accident scene or i can see you doing that you know for whatever reasons i don't know but for some reason cushing and i like i said i don't know the circumstances i don't know if it was like you know somebody took a tit out or whatever

but like cushing apparently got angry at the amount of pictures being taken and took exception to it and came out of his house and was already out of his house. It was a big accident, but tried to intervene and say, hey, stop doing this. Pictures of dead kids. Yeah. And it's a small town and they all live in the same neighborhood to these two. So he thought he could talk to him, I guess. he couldn't because after a minute of an argument McLaughlin arrests Cushing for his on a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of

police whatever the hell so that's you know that's that's interesting that'll make you hate a guy for a long time though what he ends up saying though the official reason why he arrests him is he says that he refused to put out a cigarette that he had

I said Cushing was smoking a cigarette refused to put it out and they had told him to put it out because gasoline had spilled on the road from the accident okay so he's like there's gas on the road and he wouldn't put the cigarette out that was the reason why but it was so he came in and argued with him about the pictures and i feel like then he was looking for a reason to arrest him he didn't like his attitude and it went further. It went further. It was one of those things. Yeah, it was, well, you know what? If you're going to be a dick and you're in the street, not on your front lawn especially,

I'm going to just arrest you. Sure. It was, you know, it got to be a pissing match between the two of them from everybody that saw it. And this was a woman named Ann Johnson who was 71 years old, watched this from across the street

and she said it was a escalating accident escalating argument that really was just stupid and it's not you're never as a citizen you're never going to win that argument the guy's entitled to put you away that's the thing you're kind of you're screwed at that point so another time that was only the first incident there was another incident with cushing and and mclaughlin where right by his house again this time uh McLaughlin had pulled a woman over an elderly woman from the neighborhood who was a friend of Cushing and also the lady who lived across the street from Cushing who saw this whole thing the Ann Johnson woman uh and apparently there was some I don't know whatever road violation whatever an

elderly woman could do driving kinds of things she wasn't drunk or anything it was she was turned signal on too long she was actually on her way to church as a matter of fact so she's an elderly woman on her way to church indicated right went left that's what she did yes and apparently um he pulled her over and she had an attitude with him and he didn't like it mclaughlin and he physically yanked her out of the car but she didn't want to she he eventually because it was i don't know it's some kind of traffic ticket and he said we'll get out of the car and she said no i'm an old lady and i don't want to get out of the damn car because it hurts to stand up and i'm on my way to church and leave me alone right

you know it's an old lady jesus and the thing is if i'm a cop and an old lady tells me that i'm gonna go sorry man i'm gonna feel like such an asshole just because I have a thing with old ladies where I'm not going to be mean to an old lady. This guy said, oh, yeah, and ripped the door open and tried to yank her out of the car and I guess ripped her jacket and everything, like trying to physically and eventually physically drag this woman out of the car. Unbelievable. An elderly woman.

He escalated it to the point of that. Cushing's not having it. So, yeah, Cushing came out. What the fuck are you doing leave this lady alone and so oh you again you mother exactly and this was within a year of the other incident so he remembered him and this lady is you know it's a big deal and this lady claims that she was roughed up by this man and you know it's she's not elderly but she's 68 years old you don't rip a 60 and a 68 year old in 1976 is different than a 68 year old now right like 68 back then was 55 today you're lucky to be alive right whereas now people are fine when they're 68 they're still working yeah

back then that was an quote an elderly woman in five years they're gonna run for president yeah yeah crazy 10 years too so they're there they try uh cushing tried to intervene and was arrested apparently again and this the lady across the street saw this and this old lady was a friend of hers yeah the elderly woman so she was like what the shit here she was upset and happy that cushing was trying to help and then they every everybody ends up getting arrested unbelievable so yeah now after this the uh cushing starts a petition to because he's a smart guy he's got money and he doesn't take shit lying down he's not some crackhead that you pulled out of the bar if you fuck with people who have any sort of recourse, then you got to deal with them. That's why a lot of times cops pick on people who don't have the recourse, because it's a lot easier. Or anybody picks on, not just police, anybody.

Lots of paperwork, definitely no repercussions. Yeah, whereas this guy, he starts a petition to conduct an investigation into particularly Robert McLaughlin's overall conduct as a police officer to try to get a full investigation to see if he can be fired. So, yeah, he's going hard after McLaughlin for this. He's been arrested twice, and he's said that he's seen brutality on an older woman. So, not great. Now, he... So, this ends up... This is 1975.

Right. This goes on. This flares up, this is 1975. Right. This goes on. This flares up. He's mad. The investigation ends up going basically nowhere. Okay. Nothing ends up coming from this investigation. He puts it out there.

There's a petition, and then it goes into. Ann and the old lady sign it. Nobody else signs it. No, the people sign it, but then it goes into, he hands it in, and then they go yeah sure we'll look into it and then five years later nothing's happened everything's cooled off cushing hasn't been arrested by him in a few years so the whole thing just kind of simmers uh somewhere in this time between somewhere in the early 80s now years go by five at least nothing happens okay at some point robert mclaughlin rents a place that is directly behind robert cushion oh no for i'm talking right this is like i think right after he gets married in 1980 so he lives right behind him in that house where

he arrested him or yes no his house that he arrested him at. So he knew he lived there. He knows he lives there because that place was for rent and he moves into that place. A small town. Like we said, there's not a lot of it's not like it's oh, I'll go move to the other side of town. It's expensive, too. So, you know, you get where you can get, I guess, on a municipal salary. Yeah. I'm sure I said that. There you go. But there's like a fence like a wooden fence you know like a wilson's on the other side of it yeah type of deal and that's what separates them between their two yards okay behind front and back so that's got potential but

years go by very little interaction um there's like some there's tension they never talk yeah there's a tension they're aware of each other cushing's very aware of mclaughlin there mclaughlin's very gives him dirty looks and shit and all that sort of thing like cushing's gotta be pissed yeah oh he is he's doing his gardening and this guy just sits out there giving him dirty looks but never says anything never does anything overt nothing you could complain about yeah just I don't like living next to this guy. There was certainly a day that he walked in the house and goes, you are not going to believe this, honey. Guess who lives back there.

You're not going to fucking believe this. What are the fucking chances? What are the odds? I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent

Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop

in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Oh, this goes on until 1988. Oh, my. So basically 10 years they live as connected.

If there's no fence, they're basically one large compound if you take the fence down. It's like two polygamist families. Properties connected. Yeah, properties connected. So you know how I am with neighbors. It takes very little to annoy me from a neighbor. You know what I mean? And I don't care.

You couldn't play music at three in the morning. I will never complain once. But if every time I go outside, you're standing in your driveway, I fucking hate you. If you have kids bouncing on the goddamn trampoline. Making the dogs. Fucking with my dogs and fucking making faces at him and pointing at him and taunting them so they jump up at the wall then jumping off of my wall on your goddamn trampoline you know things like that yeah they drive me crazy jimmy it changes your day

if they don't change your day whatever who gives a shit i get they're involved in your life now it's a problem that's what i mean so i get in being annoyed with neighbors i understand i'm easily annoyed and that's what i think what i mean most of the time neighbors i know i'm being unreasonable being annoyed by you're just living your life i'm just upset that you're alive that's the difference you're upset that you have to live in a society yeah that close to just give me some a little bit of something again you need to live in the country but in the country you have no fucking luxuries of society that i need you need the luxuries minus the fucking people yeah that doesn't exist that's my problem that's my problem jimmy i just need a little bit of space

car that gets me places but isn't a car i need it doesn't exist i need a little bit of space. I need a car that gets me places, but isn't a car. I need it to fly. I need a personal plane I can land in my driveway and then fly to places. That's what I need. Well, actually, that's pretty true, actually. Well, I just need, and I'm not, and by the way, people have asked us on social media, what's up with walls? Do we have walls around our houses? It's like Brentwood. Why don't you?

No, no, no. It's in Phoenix. Everybody has it. you don't have to have a nice house to have walls around your house you can have the worst house ever you still have a concrete wall around it because everything's super flammable they're called firewalls it's basically so if one house burns the entire city doesn't burn from there that's why we all have walls i've seen houses in ohio where neighborhoods not a single not a Not a fence. Not a fence at all. At anywhere. I don't know how they do that. Back east, it's everybody. I don't know how you do that.

You go out on your back porch deck and there's your neighbors all out on their back deck. How? I don't know how you do that. Nope. You got to burrow into the ground, man. How do you have animals? I don't understand how you have pets. I don't know either.

And how you keep them on your property and keep them from shitting on your friend's lawn. Or not necessarily your friend, just your neighbor. Keep them from biting your neighbor and everything else. It's a pain in the ass. Your dogs would ruin those kids' lives if they had just jumped on a trampoline with no fence. Oh, well, Frankie would have tackled one of them out of the air. That would have been the end of it.

Benny running through legs of an eight-year-old. Yeah, knocking him down. Just blowing the kid over. 135 pounds blowing over. Just taking your knees out. Going through your legs like a child that would launch the kid 20 feet in the air if if there's an nfl coach out there listening and actually we know there are some that do uh but they listen to crime and sports but either way if one of you has

drifted over to here and you need a good practice yeah for your linebackers to be able to catch like a swarmy uh somebody low really really, strong, like running back that gets low to the ground. You can borrow my dog, Benny, because he gets low. And basically, if he blows through your legs, you're going down. Right. And you can't stop him. He's 135 pounds of muscle that just plows through. Yeah, he's a force.

So you're welcome to the dog. You guys could practice. Or just get one exactly like that. You can't hurt him either. He's a, yeah, he's a force. So you're welcome to the dog. You guys could practice. Or just get one exactly like that. You can't hurt him either. He's a big lug. He's a monster. So finally, June 1st, 1988, this comes to a head.

This whole thing comes to a head. June 1st, 1988, why was this chosen? I mean, your guess is as good as mine. It's warm, we're outside. 13 years have gone by since they've had literally any interaction with each other. Okay. So it's this day, June 1st, 1988.

It's around 10 p.m. Yeah. And Marie Cushing, who is Robert Cushing's wife, she is in watching the Celtics game on TV. Yes, I do. Yes, you do. And this was at the end of a long day they spent the afternoon planting flowers her and robert yeah they're semi-retired he does real estate but they're not you know they don't have to there's no grind get up when you want no one's getting up at 6 a.m

i feel like they have a bottle of wine they hang out they leave the glasses on the counter until tomorrow to wash them drink out of them again're relaxing. But this day she's watching the Celtics game. Robert Cushing, on the other hand, is he's hanging out in the kitchen. He's drinking a beer, reading the newspaper after a nice day of such a relaxing evening. I can't wait to have one of those days. Isn't that nice? Yeah. So it's at that point that there's a knock on the door.

10 o'clock at night. I'm like, hell is that they go over there um and this is from his wife this is from marie cushing she says quote he opened the door i heard two shots he said then i saw red lights and i watched my husband go up into the air and he fell over backwards i found myself standing screaming red lights she clarifies my husband go up into the air and he fell over backwards. I found myself standing screaming. Red lights. She clarifies. My husband answered the door and there were shots and I could see flames from the gun. Wow. That's the red lights.

I could see flames from the gun. My husband's body went up in the air and fell over. I saw his stomach was ripped apart so I knew I had to get him to a hospital. Big caliber. That's what she said. Shotgun. Yeah. This is ripped open. Hell yeah. Saw she said shotgun yeah this is uh this is uh it was

ripped open hell yeah sawed off double barrel shotgun is what this was from you know me to you from knock on the door open it what's that four feet right boom boom right in the right there not great um now a witness there's a witness to this though everybody's witnessing everything you notice this shit? All of these... I got a license plate number. Well, instead, the next-door neighbors of Robert Cushing say they saw this at the time. They heard the shots, looked outside, obviously. Shotgun blasts are loud.

They really are. They're really loud. 10 o'clock on a quiet night. Whoa, what the fuck was that? They're going to hear that. It's a deep sound. You'll feel it in your chest. Boom. It's going to go for a while, too. It's going to report. Yeah. really loud 10 o'clock on a quiet night that'll whoa what the fuck was that they're gonna hear that sound you'll feel it's gonna go for a while too it's gonna report yeah that crackle for a long time come off the fronts of other houses yeah it's loud it's wild so uh they uh the neighbors said they saw actually a young man a young man running across the street after they heard the shotgun blasts okay a young man now

mclaughlin is uh 37 at the time um and doesn't look young at all too he's balding he's shorty he's not a young looking man at all so this is an odd thing right away so he's not thought of in this whole scenario and why would he be they haven't had any interaction 13 fucking years so i just wanted to put that out of your mind because he's what we've been talking about. Now, a woman named Leslie Bobolas said she and her husband had gotten out of their car right at that time and noticed a man in his 20s in the Cushing's driveway. This was before the shots. And then now, Robert, I'm sorry. Robert was 47 at the time, not 37.

He was 37 in the meantime certainly not young not in his 20s and his wife is 36 and she's you know lives with him so now leslie the neighbor said that she and her husband later heard two shots so they got out of the car and i guess they probably whoever the killers were, would wait a minute. They just saw somebody. And he said, this Leslie said that she then went to her front porch but didn't see anything. However, her husband, Harry, said he was on the second floor and his daughter was on the third floor. They both looked out the window and they both saw someone running across the street that fit the description of the person they saw in the driveway. A man in his 20s.

Three-story house. Three-story house. Awesome. That's nice stuff. Jesus. It's a nice neighborhood, too. It's not bad. That's so cool.

It's not bad. So the town goes crazy. This guy has no enemies. He's a retired math teacher who sells some sell some real estate first they're like someone did he piss somebody off with real estate deal because literally he's had no negative interactions with anybody in a long time yeah they have no idea who to look for bad real estate deal then they start looking into what if it's his son someone mad at his son his son's been getting deeper and deeper into political activism and things like that he'd been

like protesting some big companies some things that the cops are like maybe there's something we don't know about here and this could be like who the hell knows this could be the cia or so like they had no idea they were that to the point of maybe it has something to do with the political activism or it could be some activist on the other side paying this guy back. We have no clue other than that because there's no beef. There's no motive. The wife was there with him. She definitely didn't do it. There's no weapon found.

And the only thing they have is we saw a young man in his 20s running across the street, which doesn't really help any. In 88, it's so far removed from like assassinations you know oh yeah yeah it's been years since there was assassination attempts apart from reagan but nobody in like government low-level governmental shit's been yeah it's it makes no sense that this is going to happen it's really like who the hell could have done this so they're trying to they're like was he having an affair was that possible and his wife's like no we were together all the time unless he's doing real estate shit and that's when he's selling real estate so i don't think so they have no idea where to look on it it's completely yeah no clue um so until about uh mid-july comes along now in mid-july um so it's been about a month and a half no cracking of the case

people are scared shitless too because they think what if this is random what if people just knock it on somebody's door and they'll shoot you with a shotgun that's it's about as scary as a thing could be i would imagine just any knock at the door could be a random stranger with a shotgun no good in your chest that's not what you want in a small town i think that's why people move to small towns especially beach communities yeah to not have that happen oh at least no one will shotgun us in our front hallway that's helpful so he uh it's at this point where his son robert mclaughlin is living still behind the cushings and his son comes over from his first marriage oh robert mclaughlin jr so uh he and his older, has gotten closer to his dad, and he'll stop by every once in a while to see them, and they talk for a bit, and he takes.

Still not a great relationship, but. I know that relationship. Yeah. It's a weird one. Pretty much the one you have with your dad. It's tough to get a real handle on how to fucking approach that, so I get it. Yeah. So now it's at this time that his wife, Susan, is out at the time.

She's out shopping. So it's just the two Roberts, the father and son, McLaughlin and McLaughlin. Not a law firm, certainly. He tells his son that he said, I got to tell you something, but you can't tell anybody. Oh, no. I promise me not to tell anybody. Don't tell me goes sure i'll yeah let me know he goes you know the guy who lives behind me the guy who died i fucking shot him that was me oh he goes yeah um yeah crazy right i gotta tell somebody the son's like gee thanks uh wasn't me appreciate you telling me that you

know why he goes oh the guy's an asshole and um you know that whole thing in the 70s there remember when he tried to get me kicked off the force 13 years ago remember that what yeah what he said i couldn't look at him anymore he sat there he's just sitting over there all smug planting flowers meanwhile he tried to get me kicked off the foot that was over a decade ago wow the whole grudge cushing here he didn't even think twice about he just forgot about the guy basically didn't care about him and this guy the whole time sitting there going you son of a bitch wow look at you planting zucchini you bastard and the son has to now process that information yeah he goes well the son asked him what the hell what did you do how did this happen and he goes well my plan this is the father here robert mclaughlin senior he

goes my plan was i just wanted to take my shotgun i stole it from the police evidence it's a confiscated shotgun sawed off some shit used in a crime elsewhere yeah he stole a sawed off from because i guess if they run them through and they haven't been connected with crimes, they're just stored. They just stick them in there. They're just stored. As a matter of fact, the Manson, Charles Manson whole thing, the gun that they used to... they used in those crimes

and the Tate-LaBianca murders, the police had custody of that gun for months and had no idea. Oh my, what? It was thrown over an embankment basically they threw it down in california that's kind of tiered down the mountains they threw it down and it ended up going all the way down and landing in somebody's yard down below an embankment so they called the cops so some nine-year-old kid found it in his backyard

and he watched cop shows so he picked it up by the fucking barrel with his pinky and you know yeah brought it inside and said hey dad i, I found this out in the yard. They called the cops right away. Some cop came over and was like, yeah, whatever, manhandling it, taking all the bullets out, fucking all the evidence up. And they just took it in, threw it in a storage locker. Oh, my God. And then the father just happened to be reading about it over time over the next couple months and read that they had found clothes kind of along that route and put two and two together and said that was a 22. They used a 22.

They haven't found the gun. I'm right along that route. What if that's the gun? So he called the cops and went, you might have the murder weapon like in your possession for the last three months. Holy shit. Check that gun out. And then they did ballistics and that was the right gun. Unbelievable. That's how they found it. So so it's yeah it's a strange shit that's real that's real that's terrible just got thrown in the locker so if there's some sawed-off shotgun

there no one's gonna miss it unless it unless it comes up it'll sit in there forever until they have an auction or destroy it or whatever and shotguns there's no ballistics anyway because it's just pellets that fly out unless you use a slug i don't even think slugs have any sort of ball i don't think so i can't omar uses pumpkin balls that's all i know that would be slugs right that's i would assume it's why he uses them yeah lack of ballistics yeah so anyway um he said he took it and he was just gonna go shoot him with it he goes i seem like a good idea walk Walk over and shoot him. He goes, I told my wife.

I told Susan, I'm going to go walk over and shoot the neighbor. Okay. See you in a minute. Be right back. Be right back. And Susan went, what are you out of your... Hold on. Yeah.

Hey, asshole. Why don't we sit down at the table for... What would you do if you told Emily 13 years after a beef, you just had a shotgun, you're like, I'm going to go shoot the neighbor quick. What would she say? Pardon? I got to go. She'd leave.

But I mean, there'd be a pie. Are you out of your fucking. Because she's a psychology student, we need a chat. She'd have to ask some questions, right? We need to talk for a little bit. This is a. Yeah. The wife saying, oh, well, let's get a T.O'd have to ask some questions. Right. So for a little bit, this is a yeah. The wife saying, oh, well, let's get a T.O. going on here.

Time out. One second here. Yeah. Bring that back one more time. You're going to go with a shotgun and kill our neighbor over something 13 years ago. And he goes, yeah. So obviously she should be like, no, stupid. So she says to him, look, I understand how you feel.

And if you're going to do that, you need a better plan than that. Let's come up with a better plan to kill the neighbor. Not no. She helps. She said that you can't do that. You have to have a good plan. She goes, let's get some disguises together. Oh, and we'll make a whole thing out of it.

It'll be a couple. It'll be a couple's. It'll be a. Remember we were going to go do that wine and painting? Yeah. Well, let's. We can skip that. We'll do this instead. It'll be fun.

Head on down to Party City. It's so fun. It's going to be. Have a good time. They did. Basically, that's what they fucking do. I'll be the tin man. Yeah.

No, she told him to dress in all black so he wouldn't be seen at night. And she disguised herself as a young man. She put on karate gear as a... Daniel LaRusso. As a district attorney will later say, Susan McLaughlin, quote, stood guard with her karate staff, a weapon she was trained to use. She stood in the driveway with a fucking Donatello staff.

He was the staff one, right? Yeah. Yeah, because he had the shit weapon. He was an awful one. She stood in the driveway with karate gear with her hair all tucked and pulled back

trying to look like a man. In a Miyake Dojo outfit. She said, I was trying to, you know, people think I'm a guy. They don't know I'm a woman. I'll hide my hair. Everybody wears karate gear. And in case you miss and he comes running out i'll fucking whack him with

the staff and then you can finish him off that's the plan that's the plan that's not you know that's what they settled on that's good sounds good shake on it and break that's what they did this is the idea on three um yeah so there's that wow um yeah uh she wore shorts and a baggy top pulled her hair back did the whole deal and then they quote disposed of the murder weapon well enough so that it was never ever ever recovered they still never found never found it and a police officer would have nowhere to hide a murder weapon as well he knows where where they look so i mean he would know where to put it he could put him way up a whale's ass out there if you've ever talked to a cop it's it's kind of do this and you'll be disturbed by it but just do it go to a cop go if you had to kill someone

think you could get away with it every cop's got a detailed scenario of course they go listen this is what you do you get them you lure them to a pool on a sunny day right you get them out there maybe you put a little something in their drink maybe they fall asleep nothing that's going to come up later something you've been a drill maybe something like that that they would possibly have in their system anyway you get them out there get them relaxed you get an ice block from the supermarket 10 pounder bash them on the head with the ice block dump them in the pool then throw the ice block in the pool by the time they're found it'll melt in the hot sun no murder weapon no nothing there they are floating i had a cop tell me that once and i was like yeah you fucking thought about this and you pictured your wife laying out there

reading a book didn't you like this is how you're gonna kill your wife mother like i if this guy's wife ever gets killed he did it because i know how he did it i'm dead serious he dove in hit his head and got up and did it again yeah what the fuck what it looks like unbelievable that's it knock them out you throw them in they drown looks like they hit their head and drown unbelievable you dump the ice block in i guess you just hit them once right and then throw them in yeah you can't hit them more than once no once knock them out toss them in the water. You can't hit them more than once, right? No, once, knock them out, toss them in the water. That's it.

They're done. They drown. I don't like it at all. No, it's terrible. It's a horrible thing. Not a bit of it. This is what a cop told me, and I was like, oh my. Guy with a badge in his pocket knows how to do that.

God damn. I guarantee there's cops with way better plans. Oh, yeah. That was the one that he told me. That was his throwaway. He came out with that fast. Right now. He was like, here's one I've really. cops with way better plans oh yeah that was one that he told me that was his throwaway he came out with that fast right now like here's one i've here's one i've really here's one i've perfected probably actually it's fucking crazy dude it's insane so um now at the time some more time goes

by about another month and a half we're in august now. Jr. doesn't tell anybody. He holds it. He holds it. Yeah, he didn't tell anybody. But he starts to, McLaughlin himself starts to crack, which is strange. He starts to crack. He ends up going to Peace, P-E-A-S-E. I don't know what that is.

Peace? What? Peace Air Force Base in Newington. Yeah. And he went to speak to a doctor who he had had some contact with in the past and uh told him what happened really he told this doctor and the doctor said well you i mean turn yourself in i mean you killed a guy you should probably turn yourself in i would think they can't say anything right a doctor yeah there's a it's a psychiatrist

can't a doctor it's patient but a a medical doctor i'm not sure what the some of them are obligated yeah well if someone's in danger they have to report it it's a it's a slippery slope there it's whatever it is but this guy he's like well you should i would assume turn yourself in by the way mclaughlin um the next day next morning after june 2nd after he killed robert c, went to work, pulled people over, did his normal day at work as a cop. He's been working last three months like nothing happened. What's weirder? Yeah.

So he ends up saying, OK, and he tries to turn himself in at the Air Force Base. And they're like, yeah, we don't do that. Right. Like, why don't we don't really have state jurisdiction over murder if you killed someone here then fine but at your house like that's on you you should probably go to the cops i think yeah enjoy have a good one though we do that a lot so i don't know what you're yeah so sad about did you fly over their house and eviscerate it with a bot no well that would have been a lot more effective i'll tell you what we got these drones i'll tell you yeah we'll turn everybody into vapor not not a soul of ours anywhere near it's crazy

so he ends up doing that he contacts the police and he uh surrenders but the way he does it's in a in a weird way he talks to a friend of his yeah that we'll talk about who is a police officer who talks to him in a non-official capacity. Too friendly? Well, no. He's his friend. He's also a cop. He's a guy he works with. So he goes and tells him.

The guy drives him to the police station, and they're talking, but he didn't Mirandize him. It's not really cop to cop. It's friend to friend, but the friend happens to be a cop so he can't really it's not an official you know what i mean do you do you use that guy as a witness that well let's we'll get into that here so uh he does all of this he they arraign him on first-degree murder charges, obviously. They do this in the intensive care unit at the Portsmouth Regional Hospital where he's treated for high blood pressure, where he basically has a high blood pressure thing after he turns himself in and has a little event that he needs some help with. Portsmouth is beautiful. It's nice over there.

So, yeah, he confesses and he says he did it because he was pissed off about 1975 he was mad at cushing still and he couldn't fucking look at him anymore 13 years 13 years of anger he couldn't take it anymore he was pissed off and um yeah by the way the old lady he ended up charging her with drunk driving when she wasn't drunk at all wasn Wasn't drinking anything. That was his way of arresting her. I smelled liquor on her breath and she wouldn't get out of the car. It was uncooperative.

That was the original thing. That's why they wanted to get him picked off the force. He also tells his friends that he resented the anti-nuclear activities of Rennie Cushing, who was a member of the granite state alliance and a founder of the anti-seabrook clamshell alliance and led a failed effort to remove mclaughlin from the force as well with his dad so he's like he was pissed off at him politically sick of looking at him over there and i think too he was succeeding cushion he was uh getting more affluent he's selling tons of houses.

He's the top salesman. He's doing all this shit. And this guy had to watch over the fence. Watch this guy just succeed and succeed. Watch his deck get better. Watch his deck get better. Watch his siding get nicer. Watch him put a hot tub in.

He's putting a hot tub back there, that son of a bitch. Son of a bitch just bought a new car. Christ, he's putting a foundation under it and everything. He's right how does he have the money bastards i got so that's that was all this and he's taxing the shit out of me yeah that's what he's looking at um now when this happens this all comes out in the press this is a pretty big bombshell yeah obviously small town cop kills his neighbor world war ii veteran over a goddamn old grudge that is really dead and buried and over with. Multiplied by some some nuclear picketing. It's what the fuck.

So the his boss, though, on the police force, McLaughlin's boss tells the Boston Globe that he's a, quote, model cop who performed his duties by the book except for stealing a shotgun from evidence just a couple little things except for that part um he said uh now the assistant district attorney or attorney general here said quote about the beef quote it was not a significant matter in anyone's life except officer mclaughlin's what happened 13 years ago certainly should not have come back to haunt the cushings now. Yeah, that could have been over with. They could have had a fist fight or something in the street. But not even because Cushing's 20 years older than him. Beat up a 65-year-old man in the street.

They could have had a nice beer watching the Celtics and talk it out. Yeah, they could have hashed it out. Who knows? Maybe they could have got along, for Christ's sake. So the arrest, obviously, people are shocked because they had no idea it's been months have gone by and his kids are talking like holy shit this guy's been right there the whole time we're lucky he didn't kill more of us 500 feet away yeah he said quote when we this is robert cushing jr he said quote when we were out in the backyard grieving mourning the loss of our father

he could see us out his windows it's sick to think the murderer was watching us from his windows it's like voyeurism on our grief it's fucked up yeah think about that yeah think about that because they the killers a lot of times they would love to go to the funeral they want to see the aftermath they want to see what they've done this guy gets to sit and look out the window from his bed and go yeah take that you bastards like that's creepy man um so uh his son kevin cushing's son kevin said quote we are shocked and saddened over the murder of a loved one a man who deeply loved his family and community and he read uh they read a statement they had there's six brothers and sisters uh with kevin so there's seven kids like we said jesus that's crazy man um they he said quote we think it's unfortunate that the local town

officials have given incomplete and inaccurate information about that incident 14 years ago and have characterized a confessed murderer as a model policeman so they're they're they're pissed off yeah yeah another a matt cassidy who is a neighbor he said quote he's been living here about seven or eight years he said and this is the guy who manages the apartment complex. He said of McLaughlin, he's a very quiet man. And another one who lives across the street, Rochelle Trimble, she said she was totally shocked because, quote, I have high regard for the policeman here. Well, that's fine, but not the one who shot the guy. You cannot have regard for him.

That's fine. fine but not the one who shot the guy you cannot have regard for him that's fine so um yeah he basically is he's gonna do an insanity defense okay his lawyer says at the time of the murder he was incoherent his incoherent had no idea what was going on said he's basically a zombie he's a zombie person he said he'd been drinking alcohol taking xanax and halcyon now halcyon makes you pass out okay halcyon is what wrestlers used to drug women with in the 80s oh and shit like that yeah that's they can write on their foreheads so they can shave their heads and write on their foreheads and do crazy shit to them and so that's what he took that yeah because his wife i guess has a prescription for that for sleep and then he has a xanax They can shave their heads and write on their foreheads and do crazy shit to them. And so he took that.

Yeah, because his wife, I guess, has a prescription for that for sleep. And then he has a Xanax prescription. To murder somebody, he decided to take that shit before. Apparently. That's what he says. That's what he said. He said he was, quote, in a confused, incoherent, rambling mental state due to psychiatric drug, alcohol, and medical condition. This is his lawyer, Mark Sisti, who said this. He said also the high blood pressure mixed in with all that.

He couldn't think straight. Christ only knows. You know, caused you to dress up like a ninja and kill your neighbor. You know how that goes. How often does that happen to you, Jimmy? Your blood pressure's a little high. Right. Too many Lay's potato chips that day.

Too much salt i dress like an x-man and i start scaling the the my neighbor's house getting on his roof and planning to get him a body bag jump through a skylight that's what i'm gonna do sweep the leg he says uh mr mclaughlin was in a highly intoxicated state due to the ingestion of massive quantities of alcoholic beverages. He said he had also ingested a large doses of a prescription drug that further aggravated his intoxication and is suffering from a severe psychiatric condition and dangerously high blood pressure. Dangerous. Yeah.

He said that he had statements. He filed these statements and said that he requests also any evidence directly or indirectly derived by agents of the state from a privileged session with the defendant, physician and or psychiatrist. Talking about if he anything he said to the guy at the Air Force base is moot. Basically, he came to him as a doctor. So, yeah, he can't testify. He came to him as a doctor, so he can't testify. He said the agents of the state gained information from Mr. McLaughlin due to a physician-patient privileged encounter and treatment diagnosis session. So, yeah, they said they asked that he does.

McLaughlin said that he does not waive privilege and doesn't want the doctor to talk. That's private. I don't know if I like that. Exactly. Well, he's trying to get his statement thrown out. Sure. He's trying trying to get his confession thrown out so he doesn't want to go to jail for this no no he says he's out of his mind so i don't want to talk about it at all because he's got to talk his way out of it that's why he's a two and a half day hearing to see whether his statement is going to be allowed in or not uh prosecutors say obviously they killed him over an old grudge

and all this sort of shit what he ended up doing was he said he was on so many drugs and booze and everything else, he confessed to his friend who was a fellow police officer, Victor DeMarco, and this was August 26th, then surrendered to police and repeated the same statement he made to his friend. And the judge says the defendant voluntarily made statements to victor demarco in the defendant's apartment and in demarco's vehicle the defendant voluntarily knowingly intelligently waived his miranda rights before making a statement to colin forbes of the new hampshire state police they're saying it doesn't matter what he said to his friend that's all fine when once he got to the police station they mirandized him and then he repeated it so

at that point it doesn't matter but then he's trying to say that basically between the air force doctor and his friend who's a cop they like manipulated him into doing it which fine whatever uh you killed the guy and you admitted it so what the fuck do you want no one came to your house and put you're not brendan dassey they didn't put you in a room and tell you if you'd sell us what we want to hear we'll let you watch wrestlemania that's not what this is no he's a cop he knows the routine and he went to them yeah with an admission that's a different thing they didn't even he never was even questioned about this exactly they never looked at him as a suspect he could have gone on forever and it would have never came up they would have just been looking for a young man in

their 20s all the time keys to a rav4V4 in your bedroom. Yeah. They said quote, the fact that DeMarco was a policeman and not as such was a policeman 24 hours a day does not show that the defendant was in custody. Throughout the period at the apartment and later en route to the Air Force Base Hospital, DeMarco was with the defendant as his closest friend

seeking to help him, not acting as the role of a policeman. Saying he didn't have to Mirandize him. He wasn't in custody. He was in his own apartment and then going places of his own volition. Basically, he said that after this, though, McLaughlin recants the whole thing and wants it all thrown out, says it's ridiculous.

So they say, oh, no, it's in. You're in. Fuck out of here. Now there's letters that his public defenders find and they end up quitting and they have to like get him another lawyer because they have to they quit the case we didn't know about this yeah uh they find a letter where mclaughlin writes a letter to his wife who by the way is also arrested for accomplice of this whole thing to susan and he says that she has the key to everything now paul and mark he

says those are his two lawyers asked me if i got a letter from you saying you did it to give it to them ha ha they said i would never have to go to trial if you said that so she he sends a letter saying my lawyer said if you wrote a letter to me saying that you were the one who shot him then it would cause so much confusion they'd never be able to take either one of us to trial that's the plan here so then he gets a late a letter a week later right robert does from his wife saying she did it saying quote babe i pray they find you innocent they've got to you didn't kill mr cushing i did and i know you said you'd never tell and you'd protect me and then she just signed it all my love susan so the lawyers originally knew about that letter so they were like oh great

this will free you but then they found the other letter that him asking for it that he orchestrated it so he was like okay you know what we quit because he lied to us so we quit it's a whole mess the judge has to find somebody who will represent him because nobody wants it it's a goddamn disaster you can't get a public defender no public defender's office said fuck him he's a liar so it's it's fun so he goes for the insanity defense and i look this up new hampshire legal specialists say they rarely use the insanity defense in criminal trials in new hampshire because it doesn't work there it's a difference there's a different standard in new hampshire than in other places.

Historically, New Hampshire juries have been reluctant to excuse conduct on the basis of insanity. This is from a Manchester criminal lawyer. It's a very tough road for a criminal defendant to hoe to convince a New Hampshire jury he's insane. I've explored it in many cases but rarely used it. The problem from a criminal defense lawyer's point of view is that it's very hard for the defense to prove in New Hampshire because they have different tests. Basically, other states have tests such as whether the defendant knew right from wrong.

Yeah. Were they that out of it or what? Whereas juries can do that in New Hampshire. They leave the question entirely up to the jury's common sense. There's no test do you think he's that crazy basically doctors yeah hey guy who works at the loading dock uh what's your psychological opinion on this man hey tv repair guy what do you think about that guy's uh hey anybody who's not a doctor what do you think about this hey normal citizen yeah it's ridiculous

uh a criminal lawyer in manchester said quote the insanity defense in new hampshire is very unique Doctor, what do you think about this? Hey, normal citizen. Yeah. It's ridiculous. A criminal lawyer in Manchester said, quote, the insanity defense in New Hampshire is very unique. They said that it's different from every other state in the Union and every other Anglo-Saxon jurisdiction except, I believe, Scotland. Wow. So all of, you know, France and England and everything. In England, where the defense evolved in the mid-1800s, the earliest English test for insanity was the wild beast test. Oh, I can't wait to hear this. Whether or not a person knew not what he was doing, no more than a wild beast. So, are you just blah, blah, blah, blah?

Are you just dark raving bat shit or not? Okay. So, yeah, that's a very... Do you behave on instinct? Is that what they're saying that's kind of right did you know right from wrong i guess putting a more colorful than british way survival yeah jesus christ what the fuck so new hampshire's approach dates back to the 1860s when the state was considered on the cutting edge of the law the way they did it yeah they said they

formulated a rule that the jury could consider anything the motive mental illness all the facts and make a moral judgment as to whether a man was culpable or insane at the time of a crime 120 years later they're using the same same shit what do you think nothing's evolved you don't think do you think he's better than a wild beast could he control himself more ah that's amazing uh his theory was to punish acts that show criminal intent and to let the jury not the experts serve as the as the conscious of the community but you need the experts to advise the jury as to what the fuck they should know um oh my god youtube exists because not everybody knows shit you know what i mean yeah

you don't know how to change the water pump on a toyota corolla you need to watch a video on youtube now you know how and they will you need a professional to tell you how to do yeah it helps that's why people are always saying that shit with doctors i get that like the medical like big pharma and all whatever the hell you want to say change that's all fine and dandy but like they're mad at like people get pissed off i don't believe doctors, like individual doctors. And it's like, do you yell at a plumber when they come to your house and tell you what's wrong with your pipe? Guess what? That plumber knows less about the pipes than that guy knows about you or that lady or whoever knows about your goddamn body.

So shut up and fucking listen. They just do it a lot. Listen to, quote, doctors, but listen to a doctor who you have a personal relationship with and that you see went to a real school and whatever. He's got a diploma on the wall. Or she. I don't do male doctors, by the way. I love female doctors. I want female doctors. It feels so much more caring and like they want.

I just trust them more. Guys are thinking about other shit that i don't want them to concentrate on i had a male like james i just had a checkup and the male doctor uh i told him i got a pain at the top of my nuts from time to time and he goes well let me see so i pulled him out then he goes yeah they're big and then he goes put them away i'm like what do you mean they're big what does that mean what are you trying to tell me yeah i don't know they're pretty small up there you diagnosed me as having big balls thank you you're getting all your balls get a little he goes he goes they're fine what what are you what are you talking about yeah they're starting to droop on you that's why

that's what i heard i don't know i have cancer or not am i dying all right you're fine so uh since 1978 criminal defendants in new hampshire claiming insanity have also had to prove the burden of they have also had the burden of proving insanity and since 82 they've had to prove it by clear and convincing evidence they made it even harder so this is not a good road for this guy to go I feel fat for anybody and if they're acquitted by reason of insanity they hold a hearing to decide whether they can whether they continue to be deranged and dangerous if so they're committed to the state prison psychiatric unit where they are re-evaluated every five years so who knows that's how it works trial starts here for robert anyway they end up delaying it because of the whole lawyer thing

he ends up going to trial after susan does in the end but we'll we'll do his first because he's the asshole let's be honest here i mean she should have stopped him but it wasn't her idea to begin with she wasn't like we should get a shotgun and kill cushing oh my god but she jumped in like a linebacker on game day she wasn't like i'll be a part for what she was like all right let's plan this better i mean you know what down down is a mother i gotta give. I mean, that is seriously a down fucking partner right there. Damn. Damn. She's like the captain, though, of the football team.

Just going to be like, well, play the Redskins now. I got the game plan. Don't worry. We'll fix this. Jesus Christ. So the prosecutors claim that with his wife's help, he carried it out. He said this is the assistant attorney general. The initial resentment grew into an ugly hatred

robert mclaughlin hated cushing every time he looked out his window and saw him working in his garden or sitting on his back deck he released that hatred on june 1st 1988 it's not even miracle girl look at him in a subpar fertilizer the defense attorney told the jury that mclaughlin should not be held criminally responsible said the killing was a product of delusional thinking and a man who was out of touch with reality he said listen the night of the killing he's under severe stress from work uh he was drinking heavily on top of that and then he took a heavy dose of xanax and halcyon and on top of that you know pushed him over the edge. He watched

he was already drinking. He watched Apocalypse Now on TV. That did it. He said Apocalypse Now was on and that was it. He said, I'm getting the shotgun and I'm going over there. Meanwhile, he had already stolen a sawed off shotgun from evidence.

What did he do that for? He didn't go to the police station to steal it. He had it already, so that kind of blows a hole evidence. So what did he do that for? He didn't go to the police station to steal a gun and come back. He had it already, so that kind of blows a hole in that. And then he said that the wife, Susan, is the one who helped him do all this. He said, quote, she's the one who suggested wearing disguises,

using a getaway car to serve as a lookout. She directed him to the front door. He didn't even know to run after the killing. His wife had to tell him. This man was a zombie on June 1st, 1988. That's what he says. Even if he was, the wife is still dangerous as shit. Yeah.

She planned this. They got away with it for 13 years. The only way they got caught is because he opened his fucking mouth. That's it. Yeah. Well, they got away with it for three months. Wait, what? No.

They killed him in 88. Yeah, but they got, got oh i get you yeah 13 years since the incident i don't know why i'm connecting this he went wrong even so three months that's yeah that's interesting anyway so he calls several expert witnesses and they said that he you know medical mental history they said that he's he's tried suicide on multiple occasions which makes sense that he's kind of got a little yeah he's not not all square and i think sometimes it might be aggression and then sometimes it might be self-loathing and if he drinks a lot who knows what could happen and that he was taking prescriptions annex has a history of depression

and panic attacks anxiety suicidal ideation and alcohol abuse jesus christ can we take this guy's fucking why is he a cop wow um he also says another doctor says that uh he believed mclaughlin reached the decision of i think i'll kill cushing and while he concluded that mclaughlin was delusional on the night of the shooting he said that he was probably sane now and then another doctor said that extensive battery of tests. He said that, you know, he thinks he's got post-traumatic stress disorder, problems associated with impulse control, alcohol, Xanax, unable to cope as a cop and stresses and all that sort of thing. So they all kind of say, yeah, he's pretty fucked up. But none of them say like, wow, he's got a mental illness that he can't control. It's all like, you know, it's not alcohol is a main issue here.

Alcohol and drugs aren't helping the issue. He's got anxiety and depression and panic attacks and shit, but he needs help. And he's just self-medicating with alcohol and pills, which isn't a good. It's not a good formula when you mix guns with it. No, but he shouldn't. He should have recognized he had an issue and shouldn't be a cop long before he killed the guy that's the thing uh his son testifies against him robert jr a little payback for leaving the old family here um you little bastard he says uh that he was he said that his father cold told him that he was going to

shoot cushing and he didn't care what happened to him if he got caught for it if he got killed and if he went uh and then he said he went to Susan and told her about it and she told him that he couldn't do it like that that he had to come up with a better idea and that he had to come up with a better plan so she told him they had to disguise themselves this is Robert quote and she got him to put on a disguise and herself and then he went and got a shotgun and they walked to uh they walked and got into the car on the driver's side he got in the passenger side and cook drove to the place where this man live and parked the car my father got out went into the yard and that's how they did it and then she stood by um and uh but his defense attorney mclaughlin's defense attorney said that

you can't you can't have this kid dismiss his testimony because this is for all from a deep-seated resentment that he has from his father divorcing his mother in 1977 so he his father can hold a grudge for 13 years and so does the son that's what he said basically the verdict comes in and they go fucking guilty yeah as guilty as guilty capital g is that possible can i is that a verdict can i get my gavel yeah guilty capital g guilty everybody Fucking guilty. Yeah. As guilty as guilty. Capital G. Is that possible? Can I? Is that a verdict? Can I get my gavel? Yeah.

Guilty. Capital G. Guilty, everybody. Yeah. Silly almost here. The reaction. They the family here said, quote, for the family, this trials brought everything back. It's like fresh wounds.

And then Robert Cushing Jr. says to say a police officer is under a lot of stress and therefore it's acceptable for him to load up a shotgun walk next door and murder his neighbor in cold blood is not acceptable for him to walk away from uh from murder would cast a black mark on the profession and send a message that anyone can get away with murder now sentencing comes up obviously and the judge says you sir may fuck off uh life in prison for you uh life life without for him okay okay so he's he's life without so now his wife comes up on trial susan and uh after a while by the way she changes her name we'll get into that she changes her name to

sam cook what yeah the singer i don't know what. Just be a gay Englishman? That or, no, that's Sam Smith. You're right. I'm talking about Sam Cooke, the 50s and 60s. That's right. Jesus H. Christ. Are you kidding me? They sing alike. No, they don't.

They sing that kind of shit. Sam Cooke is the shit. They croon. Sam Smith croons like a son of a bitch. Sam Cooke is the coolest. He's like one of the most ripped off motherfuckers there is sam cook he's the shit god damn it look up sam cook if you don't know who sam smith is he's the shit and look him up too but you've heard him

that's hilarious so her trial comes up and it's the same thing robert jr testifies she said this because once she got home you know he came over his father told him susan walked in and the father was like i told him everything and she was like yeah he we can trust him and then she told him everything too so she repeated it to him so that's how that went down so october 21st 1989 is the verdict and uh jury deliberates nearly three days because she is up for accessory to murder conspiracy to murder and witness tampering because she went and told robert jr not to testify and to not to and to basically say that we didn't talk to you which is witness tampering so uh she's

convicted of that guilty of all those charges after three days. So they're sending her away. And then sentencing comes around. And basically, all of those are the same as if you pull the trigger yourself. All those conspiracy is the same thing. So once again, that's what Charles Manson is convicted on, is conspiracy, not murder. So he says, you, ma'am, may also fuck off. Life without for you as well. Fuck you both. Yeah, that's 13 years is too cold blooded. Eat dicks you guys have to go that's scary um as she's being led away she yells to the

reporters a quote i'm innocent it's a very dramatic moment i'm innocent um robert cushing jr says quote there's no joy in this verdict and walked away. Obviously, he's just there's very little you can be happy about. Yeah. McLaughlin and his first appeal, Robert, that is challenges. He challenges the jury instructions and all sorts of shit like that. He's denied on that. A later hearing, he says that he was denied his constitutionally protected right to effective assistance of counsel. He says that he was denied his constitutionally protected right to effective assistance of council.

Newly discovered evidence relating to the intoxicating effects of Xanax and Halcyon and how they interact with each other should have will boost his insanity defense even more. And newly discovered evidence revealed that his wife was on mind altering drugs as well and had a personal interest in making incriminating statements against him. So we need to do that. Yeah, but she got the same sentence no matter what she said. That's the thing. Yeah, and they both did it. They both admitted to it. And so it's at this point, while she's in jail for a little while, Robert Cushing Jr. visits her in jail.

What did he say? To meet with her because she wants to meet him. She says, quote, What really started me on this deep dive into what happened was Rennie Cushing. jail what is that to meet with her because she wants to meet him um she says quote when what really started me on this deep dive into what happened was renny cushing he saved my life though he doesn't know it visiting with him was such a shake-up it woke me up from a fog i had been in she this was in 95 they ended up meeting so this is seven years after the murder renny asked me what happened that night i wasn't sure what he meant at first.

Really? Did you have fun at the county fair in 84? What do you think they fucking meant? The one time our lives crossed. I didn't have the paper from the next day, so I didn't know what happened that night. Jesus. So I had to tell him about the murder of his father. You know how it goes.

That's the only thing I knew about, so I was forced to tell him. He said he told me his father was a victim, and I i was also a victim being married to bob made me a victim but i told renny that his father was an absolute victim i apologized to him over and over again in 2003 she does an interview going by sam cook at this point awesome um yeah she says that it's uh cook is her former it's her maiden name okay so she's got that and uh she goes by sam because it is close to her name she says quote my life was going nowhere this she took sam from samantha unbewitched because she liked that show yeah number one which is hilarious um she said quote my life was going nowhere my first marriage had failed i was working a million hours at pizza hut in hampton if i was samantha i wouldn't have any problems i wanted a nickname well yeah yeah you can make

the world different you know the twitchy fucking nose that's it magic happens said i wanted a nickname and sam went along with my initials which were sem mcdaniels was my first husband's last name so i just changed the e to an a it was like that except for that other letter that I changed in the middle. What is he doing? My head's in a fog too, Sam, because I don't get it. Maybe she explained that to him that night, and then he went out there like a zombie and shot somebody and had no idea why. I'm not sure. That could have happened.

I'm going to change my name because it sounds nothing like this at all. James, I'm going to go by Todd now. Yeah. Because it's real similar. I mean, because it's like Jimmy, but you take out the one and you change the J to a T. You know what it's got? It's got two letters as the third and fourth letter. A J is like a T, except it's got a hook on it.

Minus the hook. Minus the hook. They take the dot on the I and then you kind of just add a little more ink and make it a circle. Dude, it makes sense. It makes total sense. Then you put two Ds where two M's were because just two letters. Yeah. No shit.

What the fuck is she talking about? So Sam Cooke here tries to get pardoned. Yeah. Because her whole thing that she's going with now and she gets help from a group that's trying to help her get out is that she was a battered wife and was kind of forced into which i don't doubt at all if he if he held a gun to the head of his first wife and a hunting knife to her throat all the time i doubt that he just straightened up and got sweet with the second one and i'm sure sure he abused the shit out of her i'm sure it wasn't a pleasant

conversation for her to uh give her son back to the ex-husband either. I'm sure there was some threats there. I feel like she was coerced an awful lot. She asked for the pardon and says, quote, I'm not the same person I was 14 years ago. For 44 years I lived in a prison of fear and I didn't even know it until I started counseling in prison. After years of

searching for answers, I concluded that abuse and I were very familiar with each other. I was horrified to learn that my life was not normal, but was in fact very abnormal. That's a lot of people do, too, is they don't understand. They don't even know they're being abused. You have to look back in and be like, holy shit, that was awful. She said she recalls dozens of incidents of child abuse by a family member. She said the very experiences I've gained because of the pain I've lived through

can help others. My hope is to enlighten others about the effects of abuse in order to protect children because the effects are long lasting and far reaching. Yeah, I would say she said, have you ever been terrified? So afraid you couldn't think straight. I was being terrorized by Bob. I didn't have any way to escape. I didn't think he'd actually kill Mr. Cushing. And I never called the police. In my mind, the Hampton police to escape. I didn't think he'd actually kill Mr. Cushing, and I never called the police. In my mind, the Hampton police surrounded him. I never called the police because I thought they would tell him, and he'd kill me.

Yeah, that's fair. She says, quote, I was an empty shell back then, waiting to be filled with whatever personality came along. Samantha from Bewitched, I guess, whatever. Daniel LaRusso. Yeah, whoever's in, Mr. Miyagi. I was whatever, Johnny, doesn't matter. I was whatever Bob needed me to be.

When things weren't good with Bob, I thought, oh my God, I might as well be dead. I tried to kill myself several times. Now I know the signs, what to look for, what an abusive person looks like. Yeah. You know what I hear in all of that is no culpability. No culpability, yeah. I don't hear taking responsibility for this at all. I mean, those are the highlights of that. I mean, I don't know in the letter. I'm sure there was a lot of other too. This is what culpability. No culpability, yeah. I don't hear her taking responsibility for this at all. I mean, those are the highlights of that.

I mean, I don't know. In the letter, I'm sure there was a lot of other, too. There better be some, this is what I did do. Yeah, yeah. There's that. And also, you know, she said, quote, I began looking for him, her son, in 1988 as soon as I was out of Bob's grasps. This is when she's in prison.

She gets reconnected with her son that she left, Ray McDaniels Jr. She's in prison. She gets reconnected with her son that she left. Right. Ray McDaniels Jr. He's all the way finds her in Arizona, finds him in Arizona, where he and his girlfriend have four small children. And they get together and they talk and they haven't talked for years and years and years. He says, quote, I remember she used to work a lot of pizza hut.

She used to take me out for pizza. I lived with my aunts, with my family. My grandmother brought me up, molded me. I i grew up tough i guess that's good yeah um maybe my mother has found god i'm not into that maybe she really wants to get to know me it's very weird i don't know this woman i kind of feel bad uh he could get pulled into all this is what she says i don't want him to be exploited i'm sure he's overwhelmed by all this. Basically, why would he want to hang out with me at this point? So anyway, she's baking bread and all sorts of shit in prison. She says she's pissed off at the governor.

She thought the governor, Gene Shaheen, at the time, might extend her pardon, might give her a pardon. She said, I was so glad when she got into office, she had a platform that she supported battered women and that she understood women's issues boy was i disappointed so she probably read your file and saw that you were the fucking captain of this shit team that's that's the thing you drew up the play honey yeah it's tough i mean you drew up the play chris weber called time out it was a fucking if he told her we're going to do this and you're coming with me i'm making you because you're doing it i could see like yeah she has to do it she's forced to do it but like but not hey i got a plan although she's probably trying to make him happy so he doesn't beat the shit out of her too yeah we don't have any idea there 2008 uh she sues sam susan whatever the hell you want to call her sues the warden says claim the prison conditions were unlawful because of overcrowding, which made it harder for her to sign up for the classes offered.

She said she also claims smaller food portions and competition among prisoners participating in hobby craft, which allows inmates to sell quilts and clothes. They make this bitch took my quilt makings. Fuck that. I'm suinging you're in prison i don't know uh she was also upset that she was strip searched after returning from her cell from seeing visitors that's every prison in the country when you see visitors those are the people that can give you something to shove yourself up yourself men women every time they look at your butthole every single fucking time don't go to prison when you go into the visiting room you

look at your butthole when you come out they look at your butthole make sure it hasn't changed at all make sure all the furniture in there's the same yeah it's just up and rearranged good look at this there's a couch over here now yep she wants a parole hearing after the pardon thing doesn't work in 2019 she wants to get a parole hearing she said she's maintained she was terrorized and she should get some sort of parole and yeah, all this sort of thing. So the verdict on this, they say, quote, it's a serious crime. She was convicted by her peers. Those peers knew all the facts at the time, and I don't believe there's any new facts.

You, ma'am. Keep fucking off. Keep on keeping on. She is in the parole denied. Parole denied. She had no hearing. Nothing. She's life without. She is in the parole denied parole denied she's no hearing nothing she's life without she is in the new hampshire state prison for women her uh maxed out date when she's totally done will be 2103 so oh no that's a while this is not getting out uh probably not getting

out and so is he he's still in there as well and he's pushing he's pushing uh you know he's in his mid 70s late 70s at this point so who knows that is hampton new hampshire though and um the neighbor special yeah that's one of those that's to me that i needed something that was like christmas spirit and i'm like all right well we had a christmas episode last week where they you know find a corpse on christmas eve that's enough you know jingle bells jingle bells but this i'm like this is like you know the spirit of the season is supposed to be the joy and cheer and you go you see you knock on someone's door to sing a song at them a cheery song to you know drop them off some bake we made you cook yeah the one late across the street brings us cookies. Hey, we got you guys cookies.

And you bring a thing. And back in the day, they'd give you a fruitcake or something. I don't know, way before. My new neighbor just brought me cookies and brownies yesterday. I was like, what? This is knock, knock. Buck, buck is a totally different thing completely. Jesus Christ.

But that's Hampton, New Hampshire, everybody. Hope you like that. If you did like that damn it i know how you can tell us and tell the world and it won't cost you a cent get on apple podcast that purple icon give us five stars say anything you want doesn't matter what you say say what your favorite neighbor delivered baked good is yeah i'll be fine with that even sarah mclachlan can't make me donate to dogs that's right damn it do whatever you want to do but do that help us out it does help out a lot uh you can also head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything

crime and sports and small town murder and try crime and sports out coming up you know if you have some extra time for podcasts this is the time we've been hot this year it's been fun a crazy good year of crime and sports check it out go back and listen and binge it all listen to that also listen to psa hate this movie where i'll be forced to watch love actually this week and then the second installment of twilight the week after so i'm watching it more i am in deep shit there's like eight of those movies i have to watch all of them i'm gonna fucking lose my mind they want me to watch it i don't know why they want to hear me they will not be happy until i have a stroke while we're recording that's the i don't know that's it's clearly the better option there i was watching jeopardy and the

girl's like i have a podcast where i talk about the movies that i love and i was like that doesn't sound like any fun all right the ones you love that sounds like a terrible podcast yeah no ones you hate is better yeah i don't want to hear that no i don't want to hear this is great yeah it is good fine what do you hate about it well then sit there and enjoy it and shut the fuck up. Shut up about it. Stop talking it at me. Yeah. Check out PSA.

Trying to watch this movie. Also, get your tickets to the virtual live show on shutupandgivememurder.com. Virtual live show January the 29th, 2021. And it will be up for three days after that. We're going to do a real show, just like in a theater. Set everything up. We got our mics and everything. It's going to going to do a real show, just like in a theater. Set everything up. We got our mics and everything. It's going to look just like a real show.

So everybody gather around, and we're going to do a real case, just like you're going to have the visuals. We'll make the picture bigger this time, too, in the middle, so you can see everything in detail. I haven't been whiskey drunk in a long time. It's about time. It's going to be the night right there. So get all that at shutupandgivememurder.com right now. So get all that at shut up and give me murder dot com right now. If you want to go and be a patron and be a superstar producer of ours, Patreon dot com slash crime in sports. Get all the bonus materials there.

We have all sorts of cool stuff this week for small town murders bonus. We are going to have Christmas murders from the past, which just like the Thanksgiving one. It's a lot of fun for crime and sports it's our quarterly personal ads which are the most fun and highly requested as well so we're going to do those these are gifts for everybody for the season and as well in the regular feed non-patreon this week you can catch a special episode on saturday of small town murder but you can get all the patreon stuff and get a shout out from Jimmy as well, or he'll just butcher your name and you will be a producer and a hero of ours.

Crime. What is it? Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. That's the one. That's the one. Get it all over there. And,

or if you just want to get your name mispronounced, you can do that as well. By donating on PayPal. Yes. That's which is our email address. Crime and sports at gmail.com as well uh by uh donating on paypal yes that which is our email address grime and sports at gmail.com as well as following us on social media helps as well you can do that at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram that said it is time yeah for the list of wonderful people holiday style let's do

it jimmy i want to hear the list of the most wonderful goddamn people who've kept us afloat this year and keep us going. Jimmy, hit me with that list. This week's executive producers are Carrie Clark, Chris Nelson, Abby Baker, and she said Merry Christmas to Mike, and she can't wait to marry him.

Oh, I don't think she wanted us to propose to him, but I think that he already did that. I don't know, but she can't wait to marry him.'s a thing uh also linda campbell matthew nielsen margie coonsey michael stole down there in texas uh christina rousher laura uh har i think karen edgen jordan bennett neilu ross and johnny true and the people that are just super recurring it's it's unbelievable thank you your friendship also matters to me tremendously. It's been years with some of you. Thank you guys so much for everything.

It's been years with you guys. Thank you so much. Forrest Kimball. Alejandro with no last name. Gavin Zamiello. If I do it with an Italian accent, my best is... There you go. It works.

Put a little bounce in that. Thomas DeMello. Teresa... What is this? No, that says Marfie. Margie. Shannon Keough.o cleo right uh no it's kenny shannon kenny valerie wilson kale matthew calderon uh thomas strumminger no that's tamara sorry alita lentz and valerie callahan thank you guys so much for everything. Other producers this week are Thomas Smith,

Steven Stadler, Leona Messing, happy birthday, Derek Adams, Ilus, Ilus Garvey, Sarah Adderberry, Bud Permenter, Melissa Turner, Matthew Cheatham,

Brett Killian, Andrea Webster, Kieran White, Janice Hill, Olivia Bernard, David Barber, Ashley Veo, Dakota Harrington,

Isaac Moya, James Marder, Maria Rasper, Savannah Storms, That's... Is that real? That could be fake. That sounds like a porn name. Joanna Ahern? No, it's just Joanne. Joanne's wonderful. Thank you, Joanne.

Whitney Tallette, Ariana Coaster, Chris Davis, Benjamin Frazier, Mary Kip Soosley, Peyton Meadows, Bella Jermio, and Whitney Sky Flaska. Valerie Vega, Nicola Hacepis, Cody Baker donated both ways. Thank you, Cody. Thank you so much. Colleen Lambert, Crystal Hewitt, Cheryl Baker, Kayla Keala, Kayla Ruffinach, Ruffinach, Ruffinach, Ruffinach. Rufinach, Rufinach, Rufinach, Karis Ford, Steve Scott, Holmes, Anita Martinez, not Jimmy Wissman, Hunter Thacker, Lillian Maranon, Madison Decker, Rabbi Shmula Olovich. That's a real person for what I'm told. Oh, awesome.

And it's his birthday. Or it's not. Happy birthday. Real or fake person. Denise McIntyre, Forrest Weeger, White Wedger, Monica Hernandez, Anne-Marie Gearhart, Sam Bevan Realmark, David with no last name, Gary Howard, Natalie Murath, Ethan with no last name, Shelby Meadows, Kayla Lyons donated both ways, or she donated twice. I can't remember, but she did.

That's pretty amazing. Those two names in there. Thank you, Kayla. twice i can't remember but she didn't that's pretty those two names thank you kayla uh jason ammerman and uh angelica valencia uh and ego nightly i think in any in ego yeah like montoya yeah and nightly like uh kira kira okay so there's a lot of swashbuckling going on it's a sailor right there way mary k bernososki, Becky Karsten, Alex Reeder, Tayne Lammel, Katie Murden, Courtney Staley, Michael Lakin, Christina Sloucher, Marcus Deke, Ryan with no last name, Austin with no last name, Faith Flint, Anna Chambers, Madison Sacajawea, what is this, Sacajawea?

I don't know. It's never going to happen. Brie Peterson, Deanna Ashenfelter, Rain Wallen, Alexander White, Megan Lessard, Brittany Williams, Ellen Gugler, Mika Castillo, Mendy Schmidt, Natasha Law, Stephanie Sandbeck, Desiree with no last name, Dustin Gunther, Ariana with no last name, Sarah Brooks, Tyler Rine, Philip Houle, Elena Hernandez, Matthew Hine, John Broyles, I think, Abby Baker, Roe with no last name, Thomas Atkinson, Chris Digby, Lee F., Robert with no last name, Andrea Foster, Ryan Savino, Charlotte Burghardt, Alabaster Kodifer. What?

I don't know. That can't be right. Jarrett Bradshaw, Ralston Kitts, Benjamin Fresco, Devi with no last name, Devi maybe? Devi? Hugh Sherwood, Luke M., Candice with no last name, Ethan McCartney, McCarthy, Michael Hanning, Justin Loosemore, Stephen Toodle, Tut Hill, King Cobra with two Ks. Ethan McCartney. McCarthy. Michael Hanning. Justin Loosemore. Stephen Toodle.

Tuthill. King Cobra with two Ks. That's weird. Michael Buchite. Buchit. I don't know. Marissa Seik. Tyler S.

Elizabeth Neustad. Emily Kuzner. Layard. Sarah Radcliffe. Bofur3. Casey Elise Lynn. Tiara Nestle, Cody Baker, I said that, Sarah Milsom, Meredith Lynch, Jennifer Partridge,

Maris, Matthew Healy, Michelle McGinnis, Angeline Griffith-Cowdill, I think, total, Brandon Wells, Joy Hartsgrove, I'm bad at this, Connie Talmadge, Madison Ransom. Also sounds like a porn name.

Micah Shy. Alyssa Kester. Hannah M. Austin Boyd. Danny Lysenko. Samantha Crutchfield. Carly Mann. Gerilyn Moritz.

God damn it. Brian Conlon. Alicia Rogers. Stephen Warkup. Jordan Whaley. Allie with no last name. Ryan Ramirez, Caroline C,

Alicia Kelly, Trevor Gellert, Carrie Higgins, Julia Dalton, Larry Cohen, David Shore, Jessica Massery, Jamie Wissman, that can't

be right, right? I mean, who knows? Probably not. I went to jail with Jimmy Wissman last week. Miss Massery. No. Jamie Wissman. That can't be right. Right. I mean, who knows? Probably not. I went to jail with Jimmy Wissman last week. That's right. Eric Leather. Leather. Leather.

Chris Bransford. Andrea Lockhart. Peter Dage. Peter Ebert. That's two different Pete's. M.B. Leah Norelli. Ian Arella.

Ian Arella. That's what it is. Rankin McCarty. Melina Runnels. Anne-Marie Pinto. That's what it is. Rankin McCarty. Melina Runnels. Anne-Marie Pinto. Tony with no last name. Daria Damon. Isabella Cockerman.

Cocker Ham. Cocker Span. Yep. David Edmonds. Kelly Jo May. Hannah McDonald. Joe Allum. Joe Allum.

God damn it. I'm getting so bad at this. Janice Bennett. I'm getting like I haven't been all along. Kevin Artman. Darren H it. I'm getting so bad at this. Janice Bennett. I'm getting like I haven't been all along. Kevin Artman. Darren Hendricks. It's not getting worse. Hendricks. Hendricks.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Hendricks. Mary Beth Garofalo. Thomas Gillart. Kim Gavin. Ryan Fredrickson. Justin Rasmussen.

Reginald Matthews. Loud Jeff. Gary Suck. No. What? Tricia Smith. Holly Cernulka. Justin Rasmussen, Reginald Matthews, Loud Jeff, Gary Suck, no, what? Trisha Smith, Holly Cernolka, Bobby Gruel, Rebecca Miles, D. Badger, Subjective Noise Podcast. God damn it. Jessica Knutson, Nathan Spencer, Alice with no last name, Olivia Brist. Kara Castle. Justin Stoltz. Emma C. Or is that an L?

Jason Amelman. We'll never know. Michaela Leinen. Heidi Egan. Greg Gerhardt. Paige Bina. Jennifer Kemble. Jenna L.

Leslie Kane. Dusty Paddock. Kevin Jolly. Drake Derrick. Kelly what? None of those are alike at all. Those aren't words. Emily Malecki, Petra Porto, Tom Selinge, Seligny, Jessica Woodby, Tracy Olson, Travis McKay, I think,berg, Curtis Blackhurst, Paige McDonald, Brittany Bariner, Jay Kissman,

Catherine, is that Catherine Haynes? I think. Brittany with no last name. Fiedra Mixon. That's not words either. Andreas Gustafson. Rick Formica. Like the fucking countertops?

Yeah. Elsie Hutchings. Yes. Dalton Whitaker. Mark Wright. Almost done. I swear to Christ. Mark with no last name.

Jeffrey Collins. Richard Metters. Elizabeth Grimley. Richard with no last name. Olwen Sears. Jennifer Gooch. Dee French Slaughter. Jen Norton.

Hob what? Hobo Sokio? That's not right. I can't be right. Maybe. Alita Markgraf. Erica Borstein. Andrea Vaughn. sochio that's not right i can't be it can't be right maybe alita mark graff uh eric erica borstein uh andrea what volinchak jack mehoff that's not real of course uh reyna reynold tucker mark twain nope that's kerwin damn it grace kennedy mike d 918. I think those are numbers. Philip Pareto.

Doug Schrader. Alyssa Babe. Whitney Horn. Guy Byans. Bridget McGuire. Adrian Castorina. Brandon Germany. Elizabeth.

Nope, that's Eliza Priest. Carissa Jorgensen. Danielle Orr. Carmelita Coffey. Ariel Childress. Megan Moreau. Bethany Sorella. Trans-At transatlantic crime some schmuck michael biaz jerome becker lauren gardner christian gordon uh jorge torres jeanette thornberry leticia lamagna lamaina something like that lydia roll elizabeth

jackson ward palmer matt davis martha mary lane 121's iphone greg chinchilla no way courtney blord tom vogel song hey tim god damn it garrett yo uh anya tell sir tell tell someone else i don't know tell tell tell me who you are tell me how to pronounce your name tell Tell Suriel. Tell Suriel. Chris England, Jordan Ruby, Kelly Cohen, Casey Holleran, Tony Allen, Michael Araujo, Carissa. Nope, that's Kasia in Krakow, Poland, I think. PL is Poland, right? Or is that PD?

I don't know the abbreviation. She's in Krakow. Krakow is Poland. She's in Poland. Awesome. I don't know the abbreviation. She's in Krakow. Krakow is Poland.

She's in Poland. Awesome. Courtney Puz, Tim Jamison, Heather Arrington, and Genevieve DeZorgerorta-Solinski. Save the best for last. Yeah. She's not doing great, but she has an amazing cannoli recipe that I hope they share with us. Thank you, guys. All of our patrons.

Thank you. You guys are fantastic. Thank you so much. I'm sorry I can't say your names. No, you try hard. I do my best. That's what's important. Thank you, thank you everybody honestly so much from the bottom of our hearts we meant it when we said it yeah you really kept us going this year you've kept us afloat and uh we can't thank you enough and we wish there was something we can do for all of you and all we can do is

continue to try to do shows and we're going to keep doing it and like we said there's a bonus coming out that's free and for everybody this week. And hopefully, you know, let's hope you love it. Merry Christmas, happy holidays and all that sort of good stuff. And even more important, social media. Who are you, Jimmy? Where do they find you? Don't don't find me. I don't want to know.

We're out there. I am. We're out there. You can find us if you want to find us. Tell me I'm awful. Yeah. Look hard enough. Yeah.

That said, though, thank you again, everybody. And until next week, everybody everybody it's been our pleasure bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.