Small Town Murder - #204 - What EXACTLY Happened Here? in Clinton, North Carolina

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

This week, in Clinton, North Carolina, where a storybook small town couple make a nice little life for themselves... or so it seemed. Under the surface of community & church, were secrets that nobody wanted to have come out in the open. Multiple plots, from all sides leads to one deadly night. But who was killed? And who did it? This one is wild! Along the way, we find out that a little Sylvia goes a long way, that George Thorogood has a secret life, singing hateful religious songs, and that you should never trust a Mann with the middle name of Junius!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasting See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Clinton, North Carolina, we look at a storybook small couple all mixed up in a situation that spins out of control and results in a brutal killing and an absolutely insane backstory. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name

is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us once again again and again if this is your first time joining us, welcome. And you have chosen a good episode. Not that there's a bad one to choose, but this. Wow. This is a wild episode. And one of those. Sometimes we say there's ones that are quintessential small town murder cases.

Kind of what this is all about. If you think of a show called Small Town Murder, this is what you'd think of. Only way weirder. So wait. Buckle up, because it's the next few weeks. This is what you'd think of, only way weirder. So wait, buckle up, because the next few weeks, we have a wild slate before you. Terrific. We have a missing cheerleader from the mall. Does it get any more Small Town Murder than that? Cheerleader missing from the mall. That's coming up soon. It's crazy. But before we get into the

show this week, quickly, thank you for everything this week. Thank you for your reviews, especially Apple Podcasts, the purple icon. Give us five stars if you haven't yet. It really does help the show out a lot. Head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Tons of merchandise and all that stuff. But more importantly, tickets to the virtual live show. Oh, baby. January 29th.

And it'll be available for 72 hours after it's live four weeks from today four weeks from now get your tickets we are doing a it's a real show an actual case just like a just like in the theater if you're gonna come see us in the theater thinking about it this is the next best thing we're gonna pretend like we're in a theater we're gonna have great sound good visuals everything it's to be a lot of fun. Do that right now. Shut up and give me murder.com January the 29th for the virtual live show. Also, listen to Crime and Sports if you haven't.

Good week to start this week. Today. We had a really wild story this week. Holy. Check it out. Give it a shot. If you haven't listened to the show yet, give it a shot. And if you don't like this week, then you're probably not going to like the show because

it's a, it's a good show. It's a really good show. I really, I really left the studio that night going, you know, I really want to keep, I wish we were doing only that every day. It's so good. It was so fun. Such a great show. Check that out.

But also listen to PS. I hate this movie where I was forced to watch Love Actually last week which was a nightmare and this week I have to watch the rubber match of Twilight. What is that? Part 2 of Twilight. Oh. Rubber match like it's a three game baseball series. Understood. I'm on board. Yeah. I have to watch Part 2 of Twilight. Who's winning? Werewolves or vampires?

Not me. Not James. Is that what it is? Yeah of course. It's not James. Tell you that. I'm not the winner that i guarantee you listen to that check everything out uh also if you want to be a producer of the show first of all jimmy will give you a shout out at the end of the show mispronounce your name brutally but more importantly than that you're going to get bonus content oh the bonus content at patreon.com slash crime and sports so much last week you get you get both shows bonus content

crime and sports and small town murder we had a really fun personal ads show last week for crime and sports we had these christmas murders throughout history for small town murder next small town murder uh bonus show will be the worst i'm going to cultivate the worst small town reviews that i can find of the just the most brutal ones it's going to be a lot of fun we got a lot of fun bonus stuff lined up for you coming up in the next little while if you like this show we pick and choose some some segments of this a lot of fun and jam it into there and it's just extra sometimes some murders a lot of variety patreon.com slash crime in sports and if you just want to be a producer get a shout out and have good karma uh you can go to paypal use our email address which is crime in sports at gmail.com yes

quickly quickly this is a comedy show i'm gonna do the disclaimer it's a comedy show we're comedians it's a comedy show about murder right that's weird right yeah okay fine if you're listening for the first time you go i don't know about that well you know what give it a shot stick around a minute might not be exactly what you think it is uh we go out of our way to try not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes but we're not scumbags you have it that's how it works otherwise we're just trying to have a good time with a bunch of crazy things that are happening in a wild story so uh that's no good for you then you know maybe don't listen but if you uh are good with

that you want to have a nice time and hear a wild tale i think it's time to sit back and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this i'd like it let's go on a trip okay what do you say yeah we're going coming from new hampshire and then also the bonus episode this week that we did down there in jersey down in jersey we're gonna go down south a little bit. Okay. We're going to get out of the northeast for a minute here. And we're going to go down to Clinton, North Carolina. Okay.

Oh, baby. Yeah. Yeah, this you can hear like the Andy Griffith theme song whistling by when you think of this place. Old Clinton. This is in southeastern North Carolina. It's down there. It's about an hour to raleigh durham to that area outside of there about three hours to charlotte okay you know if you want to go west

and about an hour and 10 minutes to rayford north carolina which was our last episode no kidding episode 155 which was our last north carolina episode you know when that was a year ago yeah january 2020 which seems like i don't, might as well be 1957 at this point. It's so long ago from right now. Unbelievable. Whatever. So this is in Sampson County. Okay.

And area code 910, seven square miles. And the motto here, they're selling it hard, I would say. They want you to, not looking for tourism, I guess, but definitely looking for you to stay. Quote, a perfect place to call home. Okay. Yeah, so there you go. Not very creative. No, this is...

Or subsequently, it would be like the Bronx Tale when they have the bikers in there and they ask them to leave and they won't leave and they break up the bar. So then they close and lock the door and they go,

now you just can't leave. I feel like that's what this is. Now you just can't leave. I feel like that's what this is. Now you just can't leave. It's a perfect place to call home. And they just go, huh? That's not what we expected. So history of this town. The first European settlers, first white people in this area were around 1740.

Yeah. Walking around here. The whole East Coast. Oh, yeah. 1700s. Yeah, just wandering through. Took a while probably to get in into here anyway how far inland is this not too far a couple hours but it's still uh it's you know

it's rural man this is not a couple hours uh in a car yeah that's what i'm saying this is the people that got here on boats that's a lot more walking through the woods and having to make a path is a different story this is not you know they're not going as the crow flies here it's a different deal so i was originally known as clinton courthouse that was the first deal there uh first name of the town yeah it was an earlier incorporated town of clinton and matthews county however the town folded in 1822 they went bankrupt folded they just this is the fun this isn't working i give up everybody sell your houses we're moving fuck it towns shut down main street that's a sign up shut down i've never heard of a town ever just given up i mean there's ghost town of course it's over time like there's we there's only 12 residents in the in the town of

centralia pennsylvania doesn't usually take everybody to die before it's a ghost town this they just 1822 there's never a year when it's like town ended that year and this is folded in 1822 that's awesome and then the town of clinton was incorporated the same year so they danced on the ashes of this town did they get rid of clinton oh shit right that work we gotta get it before someone else does that's a good name god damn it get over there christ that's two a good name, God damn it. Let's get over there. Christ, that's two syllables? It's not bad. It's not.

It flows real nice. I think it'll work for us. I mean, we dropped this courthouse business and just have Clinton. Bastards over there in Matthews County. So they had a minor league baseball team, Clinton did. Really? Actually, in the Tobacco State League. Okay.

Which I'm sure it's, you know. Very common there. I bet there's a shitload of teams in that a lot of tobacco going on down there i remember like in the late 90s like cigarettes were like a dollar 20 a pack down there still it was like what is happening down here they're just encouraging you to you know please smoke more every side meanwhile here the the taxes man it was fast too if you were smoking in the late 90s into like the early 2000s from like you saw dollars to six dollars 225 james when i started

smoking like actually buying them from a store yeah to when i quit fucking eight dollars a pack and it was so fast so quick it's been eight dollars a pack for fuck five ten years now yeah they figured that was the limit so david tells us every time he buys a pack of cigarettes for another five dollars i could be smoking crack it's true it is it's less expensive think about it i always think about that when gas prices go up i'm like this is like what do we buy this shit by the gram soon what the hell is happening it's too much so uh 1946 to 1950 they had this team here yeah this team uh had a particular guy on it who was kind of known for being a nutcase yeah and so i will talk about him a guy named van lingle mungo okay van one word

lingle it's next word mungo the last word lingle m-i-l-m-i-l-i-n-g-l-e lingle okay van lingle mungo who was actually a really good he's a fastball pitcher in the uh and this isn't crime and sports i realized that but this guy was nuts in the tobacco league he's a fastball pitcher in the majors he's a good pitcher 120 and 115 lifetime record 347 lifetime era with 1242 lifetime strikeouts he uh five-time all-star who led the national league in strikeouts in 1936 and he's from here so uh no no he was he was on this weird team got it and hanging around this area for a few years at the very end of his career when he was done in the majors so he was even crazier and uh he's known as kind of a kind of a nut uh a little bit basically he did a bunch of shit apparently one time most widely told story with him is uh he went

to cuba and we're playing you know lingamongo yeah lingamongo down there went to cuba to play ball there and he was he was banging a married woman let's put it to put it bluntly the cuban married woman banging a married cuban woman and the husband apparently found them in the act and so he he basically uh mungo to try to get away lingle mungo here punched him in the eye which prompted this man to get a machete yes and that's the first weapon that i assumed the man has and hacking him pretty good and causing him to get stitches all over his body as he ran nude from a crazy man with a machete screaming and deserved it with a black eye and a machete fucking chasing him yeah that's that's scary um black eye. You got to tiptoe around that one. Black eye and a machete.

And a machete. Well, if he had with him, he's a guy and then he's got a black guy and a machete. So now he's got two people and a machete. That's even more threatening. More people. So apparently they had to escape the country because people wanted to kill him for this. He wanted to be murdered which actually happened i know a guy who i met out here who i used to be good friends with he sold weed so i was good friends with him when i first moved out here and he used to play he's

an amazing basketball player i saw him absolutely dominate mike bibby's shit in a in a uh the deer valley community center there he's mike bibby used used to play there. We're talking when he was U of A. No, no. Oh, okay. This is 1998. Okay. So he's like NBA at the end of college going into the NBA.

Yeah. Hot shit, right? This dude would fucking eat his lunch for him. He would steal the ball from him, block his shit, fake him out. Everybody would laugh at him. I wonder if I know him. He would laugh at this guy., block his shit, fake him out. Everybody would laugh at him. I wonder if I know him. He would laugh at this guy.

He sold drugs and played basketball in that area. He wasn't from here, but he moved here. I wonder if I know him. He was fucking great. He used to play in the pro leagues in Mexico and shit because he was such a fuck up. So he went down and played like a year down there, but he ended up fucking some cartel guy's wife. Oh, no. and played like a year down there but he ended up fucking some cartel guy's wife oh no and basically

was like had to be smuggled out of the country under threat of murder from like so many people wanted to kill him it was like a crazy thing he had to like hide out for like two years to not be murdered yeah so i get what's happening here this has happened to a guy i know that's what you don't do no you don't find the exotic chicks hot that's what you don't do it's so yeah don't do that trouble of course the cartel leader why leader's wife is hot obviously the hot exotic chicks uh have meaner husbands yeah how hot she is her husband's meaner especially in this environment of you know the criminal underworld yeah this guy was it was so weird too he was like a six foot two white guy yeah it looked completely nondescript be reverse dunking on people like it was fucking disturbing it was crazy to watch it was weird

so anyway uh yeah he had all sorts of conflicts this van lingle mungo with everybody um he tried to get a guy kicked off the team one time for dropping a fly ball got real pissed off at that and then made a public made a big guy dropped a foul ball tried to get him dropping a fly ball got real pissed off at that and then made a public made a big guy dropped a foul ball tried to get him or a fly ball tried to get him kicked off the team and then basically made a public thing sent a copy of a telegram he sent to his wife to the newspapers telling her to pack her bags and come to brooklyn because if that guy can play in the big leagues, then you can, too. Ah! And he is also the most heavily fined player of his era, amassing a grand total of over $15,000 in fines in that time,

which for back then was an astronomical amount of money. He made $16,000. That's what I mean. He probably made $50,000 and paid $15,000 of it in fines. So it's interesting. Now, I have some reviews of Clinton here, so we'll get a little. By the way, don't get mad at us for what other people say. Right. Several times people tweet at me.

It's not a racist place. We didn't say it. I read a review. So do I have to do a disclaimer that these reviews aren't us? Because they're not us. This is what people write on the thing, and we find ones you know because it's a comedy show you know what i'm saying don't go with your hometown pride i get it pissed that these people hate your place go find whoever this is and yell at them it's not my they live near you probably i don't we'll give you their

screen name tweet at them yeah you You fucking sensitive dick. Jesus Christ. It's not our fault. This is just what other people say. It's weird as shit. So one star here. One star here. Most of them are half decent, but good God, all about fast food always. Every town, people are very concerned what fast food places there are. I guess you expect a small town to not

have fast food is that right what it is just they're just i don't know what it is but i guess because there's not a lot of stuff in a small town so they tell you what we do have rather than what we don't have and then we bitch about what we do have i guess i mean you could have nothing how about that yeah i guess that's me being a dad well that's yeah what do you want there huh the whole town yes you get nothing there. Jimmy would be a bad mayor. Bad mayor. Just treating everyone like his children.

You're pissed I only have 5,000 COVID doses? Come on. Now I have none. I just stepped on them all. How do you like that? I unplugged the freezer they were in. Now what are you going to do? All right.

One star here. There are no local concerts except a few times. Actually, it says no local concerts expect, not accept, but they mean accept, a few times each summer with activities in the park. Our community theater is local talent. That is really picky. To review the community theater in a town review, really? That's really getting picky.

I expected better community theater from rural North Carolina. How dare they? Local talent. We don't have any concerts that come through here. Because you're Clinton. Yeah. And, you know, people that are famous like to make money while they fucking can. Community theater.

What do you expect? What do you think? Mandy Patankin's going to be your resident fucking? No. You're in the middle of nowhere. These are people trying to start out to get out of here. Right. What do you expect? We think Mandy Patankin is going to be your resident. Fucking no. You're in the middle of nowhere. These are people trying to start out to get out of here. Right. What's wrong with you?

Two stars here. The people were friendly. There was a smell in the city from the hog farms that was almost unbearable. There were not many job opportunities that you should lead with. Yeah. Sounds like this person tried to live there and it didn't work out. That's what it sounds like. There were not.

There were not many job opportunities and the shit smell uh which is a bigger problem and that two stars here the largest employers are in the agricultural field hospital and school system there are very few upper management positions oh they did your job for you already there you go that's what i mean that's why i picked that actually because that's pretty much what the jobs are they're actually right. Three stars here. So this is average. Overall, Clinton is an all right city.

Okay. Okay. It is a very small town in a rural area in North Carolina. It has many a small variety of fast food choices. Many a small shopping areas and stairs. And stairs? Hold on a second. Too many stairs. S-T- second stairs s-t-a-r or no no or stairs like climbing stairs yeah it has a small variety of fast food choice it has many a small

variety of fast food choices shopping areas and stairs small variety of stairs yeah there are many stairs which one which is not enough here we go can't get my steps in fuck yeah three stars a very nice town to settle down and retire there are many friendly and helpful people in the town and it has a great atmosphere okay just go just go a new just go a new i mean thing they mean got just got a new game stop store in town oh there's that and soon we'll be getting another restaurant called popeyes don't know if you've heard of it how dare you call that a restaurant we will soon be getting another restaurant called popeyes like it's some i don't know some chef is opening up a new place here it's fucking popeyes somebody had never heard of

popeyes and they were like called Popeye's. Popeye's. Whatever that means. They have a theme song. Yeah. Love that chicken from. There you go. It's not going to be a spinach restaurant, sir. No, probably not.

Not a vegan place. So population here, it stayed pretty steady. It grew in the 1950s because there were some people moved here, some jobs here, and then it kind of dipped a little bit stayed the same for a long time and it's pretty much the same as it's been since about 1960 really you know plus a few here 8,630 people here tiny and yeah it's a small town man and female population way more than the men here it's 55 female which is way out of whack but there's twice as many people over the age of 75

so i think that's probably gonna yeah you know southern men don't live to be 90 that's where you find them yeah yeah the their wives have made them dinners yeah breakfasts it's a it's a long term game basically like i will outlive him by feeding him the worst by frying him terrible that i know not every frying him dinner we're thinking old timey southern times back then it's i'm gonna fry everything he's gonna die well before me and i'm gonna enjoy the last 20 years of my life so married population here dutch oven full of crisco you know it married population is lower and there's a lot of like farm people that just work on the farms here too so it's i think you're getting a lot of that you can almost put like a college student spin on that not that they're college students but they're

more of uh a little more of uh transient flexibility they're not like the people with seven kids don't move here to to farm work the farm probably not telling the field is a tough it's a tough job yeah a little bit. It's a little tough. Single with children is actually like twice as much as normal here, which is strange. And single with no children is also higher. So there's just less married people, basically. Race of this town is pretty even. It's a diverse little town here. 42.4% white, which is well under the average.

40.8% black, which is well above the average. 40.8% black, which is well above the average. 1.1% Asian, so they're still not there. It's just a small town. And then 11.2% Hispanic. So pretty diverse for a small town in the middle of North Carolina somewhere. That's a very diverse town. And the farm is a lot of that. Sure.

The farm draws people in. 56.7 percent of the people here are religious not shocking in this area this is uh they could poke an extra hole here if you if you lost a little weight or gained a little in the bible belt here this is part of it yeah uh 30.7 percent are baptists so 31 percent baptists baptists are the catholics of the south without a doubt and otherwise a few methodists a pentecostal or two thrown in there maybe a presbyterian for fun and uh 0.0 percent jewish though there's not a lot of not a lot of not a lot of uh southern jewish hog farmers it's a it's a rare if you find me a southern jewish hog farmer right i'd love to

see him because i don't know the guy that creates shit that he won't eat i don't mean to be stereotypical but it's probably rare yeah and just based on region and production yeah it's probably like something that's not for them maybe not if they want to but there might be maybe there was there's a couple entrepreneurs in that business that think you know what there are none of us there i'm doing that i'm gonna i'm gonna run this thing you know yeah i'm gonna dominate this business because i'm gonna get myself in there yeah really that's a business that maybe you want to be in i don't know if i don't want to be in raising hogs if you make a dollar in it you are now the richest uh jewish hog farmer yeah that's true southern yeah it's gotta be southern so uh the

unemployment rate here is a little bit higher than normal and the median household income is well lower than normal it's about 57 and a half thousand in the rest of the country here it is 29 474 for households that is rough over 50 of the people here make under $30,000 a year. So it is not a rich town. You could say it. Bleak. It's bleak. It's as grim. Poor.

It's grim, mate, as they say across the pond there. So it is cost of living, 100 being regular par average here. It's 78. And the housing is the low thing. Everything else is a little bit higher, actually. But housing is the low thing. Everything else is a little bit higher, actually, but housing is a 52. Median home cost $121,400. Affordable.

Pretty cheap. Over 60% of the houses are worth $150,000 or less, so very cheap. And if we've convinced you to mount up and farm some hog, we have for you the Clinton, North Carolina Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $679 a month. That's pretty cheap.

That's like half the national average. When I found houses, a three-bedroom bath, 1,692 square foot house. All right. You know, a livable house. It looks concrete. It's a weird looking house. It looks like a bunker.

Almost. It would withstand. I feel like a blast, but it's updated on the inside though. So it's, it's nice. Like it's the new appliances, everything like that.

90,000. Wow. So, I mean, that's a livable house for 90 grand it's not bad with a family 1600 square feet that's that's not bad i found a three bedroom three bath 2156 square feet that's this is nice brick yeah this isn't conga's a nice brick house with pillars oh two big white pillars out front real nice looking house 134 900 bucks i was like really that's awesome i was like wow that's all

that is 2 000 square feet 2200 that's incredible this one the next one though i was really blown away by here five bedroom five bath hell yeah 4 665 square feet okay big house brick on the outside say 5 000 square feet 4 665 holy shit a big goddamn house a lot of house yeah brick nice on the inside the yard's nice beautiful big rolling thing beautiful 1.5 acres yeah 370 000 i was like what get out of my life this would be a million and a half easy in venus anywhere anywhere this is crazy three grand 370 for a fucking quote-unquote plantation well let's hope not but i mean plantation acre and a half around it's not bad oh wow no things to do here i found the clinton square fair yeah a lot of things to do around here square fair square fair clinton square i assume is a

place and then the fair that's in clinton square i thought squares was the theme of this you know it probably is let's not be hasty uh vents and things to do here the barbecue hook cook-off obviously yeah if we're down here in north carolina it says hogs will be delivered the night before and teams will spend the night preparing and cooking for the day's competition holy shit do these hogs walk when they show up and we're gonna prepare them i don't know i don't know the level of butchered out they are that was real vague real vague based on what what could be happening i don't know what's up with that uh arts activities the arts council will host a variety of activities in the park neighboring the Milling Around Art Installation.

Oh, boy. A car show. The, quote, Old Lightning Rods Antique Car Show. Oh, boy. Will be held at the Clinton City Market. Oh, wow. You got to register your car. The Oldies Station will be broadcasting live from the car show with Bob Stroud and the Boogie Shoes Network.

Oh. So there's that. Bob Stroud and the Boogie shoes network oh so there's that bob stroud and the boogie shoes you got that going on for you and the boogie shoes there that i do i went to many a car show james as a child doesn't surprise me every everything everything beach boys and 50s music was it was a lot of tommy bahama Tons of it. Yeah. Everybody is. But it was not a Tommy Bahama brand. It was Ford brand. Yeah. That looked like it just had Mustangs all over it.

Or Chevy one with Camaros. But it was still a Hawaiian shirt. Right. So dumb. A lot of Hawaiian shirts and khakis going on there. Then there's the Alive After Five Summer Concert Series. Yeesh. Oh, boy.

Yeah. Kicking off the season Thursday, May 16th. This is from last year because it didn't happen this year. Will be spare change. Yep. A mainstay in the area. Oh, we give them a lot. Local talent.

Yeah. June 20th, though, the next month, Jim Quick and Coastline will take Samson by storm as a part of their 2019 farewell tour. Oh, they're done? I missed it? Ah, for fuck's sake jimmy this is my all i wanted was to see jim quick in the coastline it's my bucket list and now it's gone we missed the whole career ah jim come back don't say it ain't so jim

say it ain't so at the alive after five summer concert series please come back at least the coastline yeah like the whalers played after bob marley died can i have that i saw the whalers holy shit jesus september why is that so great ridiculous sept's ridiculous. September, the Band of Oz. Oh, boy. Oz, like the Land of Oz. The Band of Oz, Land of Oz. We'll make their eighth appearance in the series.

Enough of you already. And then another one, a regular at the Live After Five, quote, Too Much Sylvia. That's the name of the band. We'll close out the season in October. Too Much Sylvia. Like the country singer Sylvia? I don't know. Sylvia. Whoever she is, there's too name of the band we'll close out the season in october too much sylvia like the country singer sylvia i don't know sylvia whoever she is there's too much of her i loved that lady and watch her on stage i don't know who the fuck you're talking you don't know sylvia oh my god i'm gonna play you some sylvia james it's country music i know like four people

she had a song called uh nobody and it was about uh her answering the phone and the person on the other end she said who is this and the lady said nobody and so she knew that her husband was cheating it's a great song that sounds terrible all right moving on um i believe i've heard jolene which covers all that it really does covers the whole genre i think it's enough for me for now it's all about some chick that's getting in here on my man. Speaking of stealing, crime rate in this town. Property crime, we're stealing here. About one-third higher than the national average.

So it's high, a little high. But then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is just over more than double. What? So it's over double the national average i don't know what's going on on the farm yeah but holy shit watch out watch out it's enough of sylvia you gotta walk her yeah it's too much sylvia maybe that's what it is they've had enough i've had it with sylvia how many fuck how much sylvia are we gonna watch times i gotta hear nobody how many christ's sake it's too much i want to kill everybody jim quick retired what the fuck else am i gonna do

the coastline's not playing i gotta it's all a sylvia i gotta look at now perfect fuck my life so that said how wonderful this town is and sound doesn't sound wonderful sounds like it smells like hog you can buy a giant house for nothing. And they have Popeye's. So that's good. That said, let's talk about a murder. Great. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and

say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to

a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery

app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever

you get your podcasts. Why not? Let's get into it here. Let's start out by talking about a couple of people. We're going to talk about a storybook couple all right this i feel like everything they did they just had john cougar mellencamp following them with a notepad and that song about that yeah what are they doing now oh oh yeah they're buying a little pink house all right that works for me they got a scarecrow look at that i could write a song about this is gonna be perfect yeah i feel like that's that's what this is this is like small town murder americana here right uh robert daniel arnold jr let's talk about first uh goes by danny okay everybody calls him dan or danny doesn't really go by robert probably because his dad is robert since he's a junior yeah there you go so it's probably easier to call him by his middle name he's born in 1951 uh we're going to

catch up with these and him and his wife here in the 80s though in the 1980s so he's born in 1951 uh we're gonna catch up with these and him and his wife here in the 80s though in the 1980s so he's born in 1951 he marries a woman named donna jones and uh she becomes donna arnold and she's a year younger than him so they meet they get married beautiful they have a couple of kids yeah they're doing great it's the storybook deal um for a while they lived in wires cave virginia cave okay well no not i don't want my town to be called cave anything cave do you all live in a cave that's what that i know they don't but that's what it sounds like is it like wires w-e-y-e-r-S. Wire. Somebody's cave. Somebody named Wire had a cave, and they named the town after it.

That doesn't sound good at all. No. In Virginia? It probably was a cave. They probably did live in the cave. I feel like it sounds like a bunch of people huddled up around a fire like cavemen, chipping pictures into the wall with a chisel and a hammer. We work in this coal cave, so we may as well just stay.

Fuck it. Wire's the biggest guy. Why not? We'll just's wire's cave i'll just live here yeah he gets to have sex with whoever he wants i'm next i realize i'll spread my cheeks now wire it's all right i'm i'm next i understand jesus wire gets the run of the place it's his mind it's his cave it's his cave so we're gonna catch up with him in 1984 1984 they've moved out of here uh she donna was a part-time dental assistant for dr joseph green in harrisonburg virginia and uh and he was doing his thing danny was doing his thing as well now they live in clinton north carolina they moved down to Clinton, North Carolina, but her family is still in Virginia and a lot of their family is in Virginia. So they moved down there because they both get jobs at a church down there. And Danny commutes from Clinton about an hour to the Raleigh-Durham area to Wake where he goes to school to further his ministry, whatever, to get a degree in, I don't know, theology of some kind. I guess that helps you get a better move up the church hierarchy, I guess.

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe the bucket's fuller that they pass around. I don't know. I don't know how any of that works because I don't go to church. I never was a church person. Are you a better? I mean, if you get a master's degree, you're better at whatever it is you get your phd you're better is that how it works i assume who

interviews the priest yeah that's what are the pastor or the minister who's the who's ahead of them like who's who how do you know do they just show up that's a great question whoever just shows up and takes over like is that i get it the catholics have a whole system but in the mormons but like in this system does whoever shows up in his most charismatic, he's most full of shit. Listen to him. He knows more of the Bible. Sorry religious people.

We took tests. That's what I mean. I don't know how it works. Is there a paper test? Yeah, who the fuck is in charge if the guy in charge, when he gets there, the guy who can recall verses, where you scream them at him,

and you can just recite them. He knows the most of them. He said the scariest thing. He told me things that jesus will do to us and it's the scariest of anybody else's so i'm he knows everything up to and including the threats so let's listen to him listen now it's all listen good now they live in clinton like i said they work at the emmanuel baptist church in clinton and he serves as the minister of music oh which sounds like a swinging title it really does like if someone in the 70s that sounds like it would have been like a you know one of rick james's nicknames he's the

minister of music the fucking you know the pastor of pop i can't believe it's not somebody's album right the minister of music someone's the king of this well I can't believe it's not somebody's album. Right? The minister of music. Someone's the king of this. Well, it's because the acronym is MOM, and that doesn't sound good. No, but the pastor of pop or the pope of rock. I'm going to be the pope of rock. That's what I would be if I was a rock star.

I'm the pope of rock. Yeah, the king of pop was Michael Jackson. Isn't there a king of rock? I don't know. There should be, should be right i don't think so they used to say that about elvis but that's oh yeah yeah that's he's the king of stealing shit from others he's the king of sort of really just marginally talented he's the original uh what is that appropriator yeah oh yeah yeah he's good at it he'd have been on the twitter shit list nowadays always be they would hate him yeah you stole all of it publicly he would be ruined it'd be bad you bad but instead it's all good it's fine he drove a buggy on the beach it's all

good we're all he did a bunch of things he put the jail uniform on yeah it's around the other jailbirds you know so the So the Emmanuel Baptist Church. He's the minister of music. Fucking rocking. Just want to be like. Woo. Yeah. Of course I have to make the devil.

Minister of music. Hung out and everything. You know it's he is. He's. Platform hush puppies. Fucking rocking. I just pictured him all fucking coming in

with his hair all long hell yeah just be like face paint like a juggalo everybody it's time to rock and on the on the seventh day

yeah God rocked two three four God is an awesome God he reigns I was gonna say

he plays George Thorogood covers with God lyrics mixed in. God to the bone. For the day he was born. The wise men all gathered around. One prayer. At this point. One Bible, one prayer at this point yeah one bible one prayer one bible one prayer no queers i love that song one One battle, one prayer, no quiz.

Minister of Music. Yeah, he's good. The wife here. He's solid. He's solid. He's rockin' it. Ah, you fuckin' jumped me on that. But it's okay.

It got out. Fantastic, yeah. I don't care how it got out. It needed to get out. So good. So his wife is the church organist as well. that but it's okay because it got out i don't care how it got out it needed to get out so uh he uh his wife is the church organist yeah as well oh yeah she's rocking it while he's up there with the devil horns and the electric guitar so this is a combination yeah it's good i want all george thorogood religious music that's so good his songs are simple and the and the you can turn

them oh you turn anything because they're one syllable two syllable words so there's nothing everything rhymes with everything he makes that's so good it's so beer yeah it all goes my friend opens for him I'll bet I could get I wonder I don't know I don't know if I bet but I think I'd love to ask him to make some fucking parodies of his own music i don't know if i bet why don't we just do it i think it's funnier that'd be great that's the same thing if we get him to play it while we fucking make it we can get like a weird al thing going on here we just make like a i want george thorough got involved in this so bad i do too let's get him involved i love him he alive fuck yeah still tours he's amazing that's what i want

i want it so bad george oh my god oh you wouldn't do it no his audience would find out and they'd be like oh they'd be angry oh my god no you know what they'd probably love him it's they'd probably love you get away with anything i'll bet he'd sell more of that shit than his old stuff he probably would he should make christmas albums too just you could mix that in there so god damn come on george you can do better than what you're doing you're doing great but i'm sure but you could probably do better even if you release some shit yeah do this so unbelievable he funny. We're free mapping George Throgon's career. That's not even close to over.

You're like 70 years old, George. Let us take over from here. You don't know what you're doing anymore. We're going to manage your career. So spring of 1984. This couple, they have a couple of daughters. They have a six-year-old. I'm not sure how old the other one is.

I think a little bit younger. But they have a six-year-old daughter at this point. They're working at the church doesn't get any more it's all church oh it's all church she wears donna wears like dresses down to her ankles you know what i mean it is just all church all the time all small town southern god pays the bills doing the thing there yeah so spring of 1984 uh they meet a young man who's 22 at the time here uh now he's a barber when they meet him his name is carl edward stuffel yeah and stuffel is just like it sounds stuff the word stuff with an l at the end e l s t u-L. Stuffel. So we're going to call him nothing but stuffel because I like saying. He's 22.

He's a barber. Great trade. My grandfather was a barber. You can make a lot of money. For 40 years. That's what immigrants did. That's one of those things where you know at some point his father told him, everybody always is going to need a haircut.

Everybody needs a haircut. It needed a haircut it's never gonna stop the hair it never stop growing it just to keep it coming job of security it's a job of security yeah that's what they would think the immigrants back then so i could imagine his father was you don't even have to make it come up it just comes up on its own it just to happen you know, you don't have to plow the field. It just grows. The crop just grows. And they come to you, and then you just cut off. It's nice and easy.

You don't even go to them. It's so easy. You do. So how did he learn to cut hair, you ask? Yeah. Did he go to like a barber school or something like that? Yeah. I don't think that's for barbers. I think that's a modeling place.

Sounds good. Sounds like it should be. Well, there's also Barbizon. They have Barbizons for modeling, and they have Barbizon, which is the hair side of that. And then you cut the model's hair, and they take pictures of it. But that stuff that they put the scissors in is called Barbisol. Barbisol, yeah, absolutely. It should be called Barbizon.

The blue shit. When I was a kid, because my grandfather was a barber, so he had the glass jar, the big tall glass jar with all the blue shit in it. With the thing you pull up. Yeah, with the thing you pull up and the things. He had those all over. The thing you pull up and the thing. Yeah, the thing you pull up and it's got a screen with the combs and shit on it.

Yeah. That was the coolest shit when you were a kid. It's awesome. It almost looked like a science lab. Right. You know what I mean? It looked like it should have bubbles in it. Yeah, because it made the glass.

I wanted to drink that shit so bad. I don't know why, but whatever color that Barbasol is, is a delicious looking color to me. It's that Listerine blue. It looks amazing. It looked like there's some flavor of high C maybe. When I was a kid, God, I knew it was poison. Or a nice watered down blue Kool-Aid. Yeah, it looks great.

I wanted it. I believe it. I knew better, but I still wanted it. Good. I'm glad you're restrained i did i kept it i wouldn't be here right now it would be a sad tale my career thanks you and that that's one of those things where no one would even feel bad no you'd look at that and go well i mean the world would have got him eventually drinking the blue shit the combs

are in he didn't have much of a chance there's scissors in there he still took a sling i mean there's hair in there you think that would have kept him away from that's a little yeah tiny shards of hair but uh he'd have ran into traffic at some point so stuff although he learned his trade while in prison for breaking and entering my god uh yeah he's got a list uh prison record as long as his arm he's only 22 but it's all breaking and entering burglary he's into drugs that's not his he likes drugs and he likes living a basic scumbag lifestyle is what he's doing but he gets out of jail and he's doing uh he's doing cutting hair and trying to get his life back together here in 1984. Yeah. So what happens is this is a guy he'd taken drugs since he was like pre-10 years old, he said. He's just one of those guys that did not have a good upbringing. He found it too early.

Who knows what this guy's home life is. It fucked his whole life. It fucked his life. Yeah. If your kids are doing, if any kids are doing drugs pre-10, that's the parent's fault. Yeah. Because the kid should be always supervised pre-10 so they can't do drugs and if your kid is like has drugs accessible to them pre-10 that's your fault yes you should be able to keep physically keep things

away from a 10 9 10 year old kid for quite some time yeah for sure if the kid's 17 and doing shit at some point it's like well yeah it's hard to control it's a little more of a gray area eyes off him at some point yeah they're almost adults but eight no two that's on you so yeah he did that and he also just tons of criminal shit over the years he's had a bad run of it basically old stuffle yeah stuffles had a bad run legally here uh he now dan are uh dan arnold here our our main guy we just talked about. Pastor Dan, Dan and Donna, Dan and Donna, Dan and Donna on, on music and keyboards right there. So he commutes from Clinton to wake forest every day or not every day, once a week to

attend classes at Southeastern Baptist seminary. Wow. Sounds like a party school. Yeah, that is a party school every year they release the top party schools it's always like florida state asu and the southeastern baptist seminary college in wake forest it's always right there yeah it's partying it's crazy it would either be one or the other though it's never like it's never just a little bit of degenerate behavior. It's either hard line, nothing, or fucking everything goes. It's either Baptist seminary or...

Bananas. Or shirts are optional for all genders all the time. So it's crazy. So he, on Valentine's Day, February 14th, 1984, serendipitous date here, he sits down in a barber chair, Dan Arnold, and has his hair cut by Stuffle. This is the Valley Style Shop in the Crabtree Valley Mall in Raleigh. So, yeah, he's going to the mall to get a haircut. That's how big malls were in the 80s. You just have to stop by the mall and get a haircut.

Strange. So, anyway, he meets him. big malls were in the 80s you just stop by the mall and get a haircut right strange so anyway uh he meets him uh dan entered the shop with the owner's nephew uh who he knew from the area and stuff will cut his hair he was a new barber and he cut his hair dan uh talked to stuffle a little bit while they're cutting hair and heard about his story dan's one of these guys who uh is very much this point he's in his early 30s he's got a wife he's got a family and he's uh he's into the church thing as far as lost puppies and shit like that and a lot of the church people are like this they like to they they they help people they talk to people they find out somebody's story they go well

maybe i can get you a job here i know a lot of people here maybe change your life keep you off that path and uh by the way right and uh by the way have you heard the newest george thoroughgood selection i think we could really cement these thoughts here's the new george surrogate cd and we'll see you on sunday and there you go have fun remember this when the collection plate comes around that's it's going to be here so watch out so they they meet that day that night uh dan suggests that they have dinner that night sure why don't we have dinner i'm going to be here anyway with the college we'll have dinner and we'll talk more so they do uh they talk that night um and uh they talk about uh stuffle tells Dan about his problems.

He tells him he's had problems with drugs, and he's had problems legally also. He's open about it. He's open about it, and this guy's saying, I feel like Dan's one of these people that gets information out of people like that because he wants to help them, and they feel like,

he doesn't seem like a narc or anything. I mean, he's fucking, I'm an open book. Minister of music, brother. You know what i mean he's like what's up yeah here to the rapper bob i am mom and minister of music right here and i need to know everything i will tell you everything about me tell y'all you need to tell me about you so they do they they talk and he tells him i've had problems with drugs my you know my whole life

and tells him that and he says i have legal problems also including currently i'm out on bail right now yeah i'm currently charged with larceny of a firearm and looking at some jail time too so he's like you know my life's just kind of shit right now and i'm trying to get it on track i'm cutting hair i'm doing this so they have dinner and they talk about it um and then afterwards they go to a motel in raleigh and have sex oh that was quick yeah how the didn't expect that did you whichever one of them that's a left turn ain't it one of them is smooth talking as fuck um yeah no they're both this is they're both into this okay um dan this is a thing as we'll find out for dan um that was fast yep there's a lot of straight guys that can't handle that can't get that done that quick this is um i mean in 1984 though in rural north carolina

if you just found another person who was gay like i'm just pushing myself in what i'm not saying for anybody else but if i was gay then and i there's probably not a openly gay was not a thing there i'm sure yeah so to find another person who was into that would be like i would have been like i don't give a shit if i'm attracted to you or not at least let's try this because there's nobody else right literally this is all there is you're you're are you telling yeah you too yeah let's go that's what i'm saying if you were in i know motel let's do it let's do it yeah if you were you know somewhere so that that may have been how he got uh he probably professed to him right that he was he's like well i have a wife and i get kids but i'm also gay so now you tell me all

about you i picture this being like um they ate dinner they talked about i don't feel like this came up verbally okay in my mind this is how this went down i don't know like this came up verbally. Okay. In my mind, this is how this went down. I don't know. Somebody touched a leg. In my mind, this went down as there was vibes and there was, you know, gaydar and they knew it was up and they've not that they're either of them are even gay. I'm not going to classify what their sexuality is. It's as we'll see. It's very much fluid here. So but, you know, I think there was a vibe of some whatever.

And I think one of them was like you want to go to the motel they're like yeah i'm driving sure no problem and i i think it was just one of those like yeah of course one suggested something the other was like okay and then i think it went like that wow i don't think it was like we're gonna go fucking the motel right because we're we both have homosexual feelings right right right i know that the song said yeah about the bible prayer but you know i'm saying right i feel like it was more like a unspoken yeah it's gonna happen thing i feel like so um he eventually dan believes that he can help stuffle with his problems oh yeah he can i know

one problem he can help him he fixed one of them. He fixed one of them. He is the mechanic of that one. He's got that all taken care of. Fucking in a motel room, he's got it covered. Done. So Dan eventually starts talking about maybe you can move into our family home. Oh, boy. In Clinton, so we can help you out. Is the wife, does she know? Oh, no.

Oh, you can't do this. Yeah. Didn't consult with Donna about this at all. Just talk to him about this. Maybe you can come stay at my house and all this sort of thing. Now, when he brings it up to Donna, Donna's like, hold on a second. So there's this guy who has an extensive criminal record and who's having a drug problem currently and a legal problem currently.

For theft of fucking firearms yeah so he's got weapons and so you'd like to bring him into our home with our children right because that's good right i'm gonna bring a very dangerous human being yeah by all intents uh documented purposes into our family home yeah that's what you want to do and her concern is you want that around our daughters you want that guy around our daughters but dan yeah persists with the christianity of it all he says look that's the christian thing to do yeah this person this is what we're supposed to be doing which is also dan's very well aware that he's not involved in in the ladies also yeah also he is hung like a horse so there's that too so you put those two

things together our christian responsibility it's the lord i mean it's not me it's you know upstairs pleasing him he's pointing up yeah it's the lord you know how it goes it's not i can't i don't make the fucking rules yeah that and and he hears me having to talk you into doing what he wants us to do so you better hurry up and get on the board because your your afterlife depends on this and he's working the equipment like a champ i'm not gonna lie not you know how you are with the organ he plays a mean one too it's he could take your place on the organ at least on at least one organ that we're aware of at least one of the organs i'm not sure if the church will let him in but i have other organs so dan though was persistent on this oh no we need to do this

and he took his family to meet stuffle and stuffles parents because stuffle lived with his parents at this point so he takes his family to meet them great outing for the kids how'd you like to be a kid there we're going to meet who yeah i'm fucking weirdo and his parents that you met uh gross who wants to see this so that's a boring day for a kid so in april 1984 dan invites stuffle to easter services at emmanuel baptist church in clinton where they work obviously he's the minister of music rock on and uh at the end of April here, as this goes on, they decide that he should move into their house. Basically, after Easter comes and goes. Got the okay. At the end of April, Stuffle moves into the Arnold's house, which is close to their church.

You can see it pretty much from the house. It's right there over through. There's like a parking lot and you can see the house in the church from each other so this will keep him close to the church which if he goes to church every day he doesn't have time to do drugs great point there you go i think that's what they're going for here so uh now just before stuffel moves into the house dan comes to donna with another proposition okay he's gonna have this guy move in, which was a big deal. Yeah.

Obviously, we're going to have some guy. Now he wants more favors. Total stranger, move into the house, be around our kids, you know, to get him off drugs. That's normal. He's a convict. Go on. Yeah. Also, you know, he needs somewhere to stay during his legal battle.

Also, that's the other thing. So it's another. It's an issue. But don't worry. He has a job through which he got an apprenticeship in prison so it's good it's going great not bad look at my head it's that's a good job tell you what so uh he sits her down i don't even know how to bridge this oh boy he sits her down and he says okay this is what i'd like from you this is what i'd like from you yeah i would like you donna yeah to you know you know stuffle who's moving in right uh tell you what um okay because i'm picturing this

is how he had to have stumbled into this there's no way he couldn't just sit this down and and confidently spit this out he had to have stumbled into it and uh he said i want you donna to allow stuffle to impregnate you oh oh my god okay how's that was that so so far how many times have i said the last thing i expect you to say in this fucking case how does he why okay yeah um dan Why? Okay. Yeah. Dan had had a vasectomy. Oh. But he wanted more kids and wished for Stuffle to be the surrogate. Yeah, right, right. So, and we're not going to do this scientifically, though. Yeah. Yeah, and we're going to do it the old-fashioned way.

Let him, literally, let him bang you. Push himself into you over and over until he finishes getting out what I want out of him. Yeah, yeah yeah try to hold it in jesus and then and then clam shut clamp shut really i mean vice grips do it up yeah stand on your head on your house i'm gonna say if you can get upside down that would be ideal get it all down let's let gravity work it's magic really really really let your fallopian tubes gargle it that's what i need you to do soak it on in there is what we need. Kind of shake your ass a little.

You seen them hip-hop videos where they make it clap? If you do that upside down, I think it might work. I listened to some outcasts, and they said, you know, it may have been Yin Yang Twins. I can't remember. They said to pussy pop on a handstand. I think that's how you get it. I think that's how you keep it in there. So why don't you try it at least?

At least try it a few times why does why does he want this so why did he have the vasectomy was it uh i guess he thought a medical problem or he was just done he was done done with kids and he's like now i'm not i want another kid so he wants stuffle to do this so let him bang not only that he said yeah it'll get him you pregnant which which is we want that also. But there's an additional benefit to this in that this is wild, man. This was said that stuff needed an ego boost. Also, he's been real down lately, you know, with the prison and the drugs and the haircutting and the cheap Raleigh hotel sex. He's been down.

So this would give him this will help him out he'll feel good about himself if you let him plow you away a little bit here so at that point it solves both problems is he okay cool right i'll go tell i'll go tell him it's cool did he hit his head what's going on this is imagine being donna right here he's the sweetest man alive ps I mean uh he's a nice man this man may bang my wife and I'll raise any child that comes of this if he if he would anyway I'll ask him I mean I don't know if he would want to plus he's looking he's feeling a little down Pastor Dan is amazing don't you think that my friend's not feeling so good I let him

take a run at my wife I think maybe that'll that'll lighten his mood up not even just take a run at my wife impregnate her yeah knock her off good please create a financial burden for me raw dog my wife please i'd really enjoy it if you raw talk my wife that would be a get that off of your dick and just jam it in her come on good lord so i don't even know what to say about right away Right away, we are in... This isn't like a threesome situation. No, no, no. I won't be here. No, no, no.

You should just have it. Yeah, I'll probably hang out outside and listen a little bit or something, make you guys hors d'oeuvres. This is unbelievable. Get you drinks if you need it. But he's trying to orchestrate this. What a story. This is insane already, right? We're barely even scratching the surface here.

Is anybody surprised at this moment that this is a small town murder somebody's gonna lose their shit yeah this isn't good this is not this is terrible this is not okay what bad ideas that sounds terrible this whole thing yeah this is awful this is not gonna work out there has not been a one good idea so far so far there really isn't other than george thurow good christmas album and religious songs there really hasn't been any good ideas i feel like in this whole thing yep not to pat ourselves on the back the only good idea we're making the best decisions out of this whole show so far we're making chicken salad out of chicken shit and these people are not so it's delicious uh now donna she's been asked i mean i don't know which is a crazier

reason poor don i'd like you to be pregnant by this man or it'll boost his ego either way you're like what am i a conduit like what am i i think i've already bent over backwards now you want me to bend over forwards yeah i have a convict sleeping in my house with my children i'm not a fleshlight right just invite people over to boost their ego by humping away on me gelatinous vagina what's happening here kids out of it this is a weird gelatinous that's what a flashlight is i'll give rubbery yeah whatever the pretty good thing somebody sent us one yeah right yeah so donna's shockingly enough she doesn't say all right she's like what are you talking about oh thank god she's like are you out of your mind who's not on drugs this is crazy so she freaked out a bit about it a little bit and dan dan got upset about it her she said no and he started crying and and like it was basically hysterical about the whole thing as donna says she he was hysterical and um you know

all this shit so he initially agreed to uh you know i guess no but he was all upset about it he was so upset that she finally agreed just to calm him down. She's like, I'll agree for now, and then we'll figure it out later. But what a wife. He's having a meltdown right now. We need to quell this. I'll bang your little drug addict barber friend. Sure.

No problem. Does that make you feel better? She is so nice. I guess so. So, yeah, Dan ends up later on, though. He says that, you know, maybe it's not a good idea. I don't know. Dan goes back and forth on it.

So, wow. So Dan later on decides that it's an inappropriate idea. He's like, that's not appropriate. Yeah. What was I thinking? Yeah, obviously, this is wrong here. Clearly, I was all horned up. I was more.

I don't know what I'm sorry. I figured it was waffling on the stuff. Kind of hot you know i got some stuffle waffle going on right now so he they he ends up moving into the house after all this first of all now he's got to move into the house right and like this conversation has happened beforehand how creepy and weird and uncomfortable would that be even weirder if stuffle's like not really on board with the banging of the wife and he's oh he was anyway and then oh is he okay he was fine okay no no he brought that up dan brought it up to him first

like how about you bang my wife and he's like would you knock her up and he was like i'll knock her up shit i got one thing i got it's jizz i keep making it and then he's gotta go stand by and just stand by the door and go what do you think i mean i whack it a lot i ain't run out yet so he's gonna stand by the door shrugging yeah i mean what do you think like mean i whack it a lot i ain't run out yet so he's gonna stand by the door shrugging yeah i mean what do you think lady good letting your husband talk you into this so they're into it so they move in he moves in stuffle moves in with the arnold's here and uh shortly after they move in though the uh donna finds a canceled check for a canceled check to a Raleigh motel. Oh.

Yes. And confronts him about it. Confronts Dan about it. Why do you have a canceled? Why do you have a check from a Raleigh motel? Why are you staying in a Raleigh motel? You commute. You didn't sleep over anywhere, so why were you checking in?

There you go. So that's the question. She confronted Dan about it. He made up an explanation. And this was the night that they met that they met this was that raleigh hotel so at the time dan lied about it but the next day he uh they they had a babysitter there while they were doing some stuff and then while he drove the babysitter home right before he drove her home he handed donna a letter oh

said here you go yep i can't say it out of my goddamn mouth yep he said here's a letter and then took the babysitter home for a uncomfortable ride i'll be back for an even more uncomfortable arrival oh boy thank god there was no texting back then for him yeah about 15 minutes into that ride his phone oh shit zing zing zing oh boy as soon as you drop her off this thing better ring oh boy yeah yeah so in the letter he says that he he basically lays out he says look i've been gay since childhood he said his words he said he's been a homosexual since childhood and not only that he has had male lovers in every place that they've lived together, including Clinton, including in this small town. He's found dudes to bang.

Oh, my God. So I have been banging dudes the entire time we've been married, the higher time we've known each other. I've been banging dudes my whole life because I like dudes. That's what I'm into. Yeah. And it's hard to be that in this fucking society. Hard to be that here.

So give it 10, 15 years years you'll hear a lot of senators about this so you just go to church every day and that keeps the gay thoughts down that's how it works god damn you just sing george thorough good songs and think straight thoughts i guess was the thing back then i feel terrible for anybody that had to go through that and or is currently going through oh yeah It's still happening today. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's fucking awful. It's awful.

Back then, though, it was, I don't know. Unless you're into both and you can hide it that way and you still got at least one thing. But he also, you know, he has to have dudes. Yeah, that's a problem. He's into it. It's ruining people's lives. It's a problem for a marriage. Yeah, it's ruining people's lives.

Not just hers, but also his. It's ruining his fucking life every day. He's got to live two lives and then she doesn't know what he's doing behind her back it's awful and then he's going to church too where they're telling it live by god and live you and one bible one prayer no prayers i mean always tell the truth which is the standard i think that's the slogan for i think that's it's on their flag. I think it's on there. Yeah. At least on those boards outside of churches. They put those letters on. So, yeah, he says that. And he said that the canceled check was from one of these encounters, which was with stuffle.

And it was a one night stand they had after he met stuffle. So she's got to. That's a hell of a letter. You're like the minister of music's wife and you play the church organ you have your kids and you wear dresses down your ankles and you know you've got john cooger mellicam taking notes and life is very calm and very you know whatever by the book and then you get this letter like what's that this is a squall if there ever was this is interesting yeah so donna becomes very upset rightfully so just to

not know this about your husband would be you know whatever and uh leaves the house and drives around for several hours just goes and drives around just to i guess i don't know you gotta clear your head if you find out your husband has been banging dudes all the time you can't you can't just go well i mean that happens you have to take that there welcome to the small town of chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper in this new thriller available exclusively on wondery plus religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated montana community everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager but local deputy ruth vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again,

leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details

of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts now she considered over the course of this drive she considered leaving leaving Dan. You know, that was obviously a consideration. Should I leave a guy over this? But then she decided she still loved him and that the relationship and more importantly, the family, the children, everything was worth saving. So she said, I'm going to stay and I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to stay. I'm going to stay.

But the next day she she starts banging stuffle. Oh, God. What? What the fuck? Jimmy, you expect that one? Or was that another one that you... The next day. Was that another curveball?

I mean... How many... There's not a good decision. I mean... Not a good decision amongst us. Every time you're like, okay, what's the worst thing that could happen now? She'll bang stuffle. There you go. Let's complicate it worse worse i don't know what else she could do

besides she developed a cocaine habit like that would be dear christ uh yeah she began a sexual relationship with stuffle the next day which is um wild yeah and uh according to stuffle this was going on what he was telling people that they were engaging in sexual intercourse about every other day for the next few weeks so they're just banging away stuffle is loving life he is stuffling it in there good he's really giving her the stuff oh he's at some at some other some house he's not paying rent he's banging away on this one they're trying to get him out of his legal difficulty for the church he's having a great life one-nighters in hotels with the guy and having a great time that he is loving life oh he's loving it yeah and he's got a job a couple times she wasn't didn't want to do it but he coerced her into into having sexual intercourse

three different times by threatening to tell the community about dan's bisexuality and also insinuating threats against her children oh stuff will i hate you stuff was a dick yeah this is not cool that's a terrible i'll tell everybody he had the minister of music i'll show him a butthole and he ain't gonna think he's a minister or nothing no more oh no um yeah not not great so donna um wow so they they have this relationship though i guess it starts out pretty whatever but then it sounds like it's contentious when yeah it sounds like she did it because she i mean she has a past now you know what i mean and if she's going to be able to just do this whenever she feels that's great but now she has to do it whenever he feels yeah that's no good yeah and that's the thing and now after the after dan's big revelation here stuffle starts to basically he's trying to like be the alpha male of the situation

starts belittling dan at every opportunity he can and starts talking shit to him and making fun of him and things like that in his own house with this whole thing about it while he's banging his wife so what the hell man yeah this has gotten very weird and he begins to openly declare his love for donna at this point i got kids shut up man in the house stop him talking shit well you're gay what do you care oh my god you bang me so what do you care i don't know how you even i'm like what do you even what are these arguments even like i hate this they're too crazy friend no one's right oh yeah well this and that well that's true oh yeah well listen that's true too there's nothing that's why you gotta live who you are yeah this shit this is this is horrible now there's blackmail threats

may 18th 1984 dan goes to his doctor for help with his nerves he's that frazzled this is and this is may 8 it took three weeks three weeks he's literally seeking medical help right for nerves he was tearful crying and suffering from low self-esteem he told his doctor that he had seen his wife and stuffle in bed together and uh worried that carl was younger and better looking than him and freaking out basically and so the doctor prescribed him some mild tranquilizer and told him to chill the fuck out and uh that's not gonna help no but it helped he needed like a calm down though i think it was one of those he needs to smoke weed he needs this guy needed some edibles bad real bad at least just uh just an yeah a minimum of chocolate that's a 20 milligram or really to take it down a notch i think for him

20 maybe that would be a lot for him maybe Maybe a 10. A 10 for him would probably be good. 20 will make me happy. 20 is a bit much. It's a bit much for him. What did you give my uncle? A 20? A 10. I gave him a 10.

That's plenty. A 10 and a bunch of concentrate out of the vape pen. A bunch of hits of crumble out of the vape pen. He hasn't been the same since. Good for him. He was so happy. He's really enjoying his life today. I haven't had this in 72. Good for him. He was so happy. He's really enjoying his time. I haven't had this since 72.

This is the most happy I haven't smoked marijuana since 72. Uncle Danny, you may want to calm down. That's a little different from 72. I was like, I would hit that lightly. Well, that tastes good, too. That's not like, he used to taste all dirty back then. That tastes like orange juice. That's delicious., he used to taste all dirty back then. That tastes like orange juice. That's delicious.

Yeah, it is. That's why it'll grab you. Watch out. Watch out. Next thing you know, he's stumbling. He had a great time. He had a great time at the live show. So May 22nd, 1984, four days later,

Stuffle here asks a friend of Dan's, a guy named Daniel Statton, who's a friend of dan's a guy named daniel staten who's a friend of dan's he asked him where does he know if he can get some weed somewhere we're gonna get some weed around here okay so the minister of minister of rock here his uh his friend i guess he thinks he can get weed oh boy this doesn't sound like a good place to get weed this town no um so he asked him if he could get weed now his friend here daniel statin dan's friend told dan about this conversation this year he did go find weed no no he didn't get him he tried to dan tried to find no no dan's friend dan dan has a friend named right but dan asked his friend dan no go get dan some stuff i'll ask stuff i oh no dan's friend to get him weed stuff is not the guy that needs it no i would say not so stuff will ask his friend to get weed so this

guy the friend told on stuffle and goes and tells dan this guy's trying to get weed great just so you know because he was here trying to kick his drug habit and all this type of shit and drugs and crime and all this and now he wants he wants weed so to this, now Dan decided that he was going to evict Stuffle at this point. This is the perfect excuse to get him out of here. Now we got that going on. So Donna and Dan pack up all his shit and they found a pretty aggressive looking knife

amongst his stash that made him a little uncomfortable. Packed up his shit and had it ready to go. Ready to go when he came home. He came back in. They told him never to return. And that was that. And then Dan went with Donna and the kids

and his friend Daniel Statton, who told about the weed, and they all went to the beach. Okay. We got rid of them. Now let's go have a nice time. Cleanse ourselves in the waters of the Atlantic. Let's go baptize in atlantic let's do it

so they do that and she uh she uh they they say that uh while this happened um jesus christ man they go to the beach at dan's request uh daniel confronted donna about her affair with stuffle so he said come to the beach with me and confront my wife about this for me can you bring up a very sensitive personal you know marriage thing with my wife what how about you do it yeah you know i don't know what's going on so he asked his friend to do this dan's not good with words unless it's the bible it seems like yeah or george there are good lyrics yeah so the dan or dan's friend dan does it confronts her um and uh she never responded never gave a response but just started crying so that's a pretty good response no yeah she regrets it she responds with tears it's probably

a bad probably happened so early june of 1984 stuffle is put in the hospital he's put in uh the arnold's kind of have him committed oh basically uh not it's like a drug rehab but he asks them to do it too he asks for help will you put me in here and make it so i can't check myself out because i want to kick this shit right so stuffle does that this is the Dorothea Dix hospital here. This is early June 84. Now they would come to see him all the time, though. He's a patient there for about a month. The Arnold's would come to see him, which is fucking crazy.

What do they do? I don't know. I thought we're trying to wash our hands of him. Nope. They can't. They can't stop. Now he's there. The worker, the social worker that's working with him and the psychologists that

are working with stuffle while he's in there uh basically said that stuffle told them that he was in love with donna and and he hoped that she would leave her husband uh to be with him i hope i'm hoping she'll leave him and he told stuffle that such a relationship was unrealistic and asked stuffle what other options were available when he was released from the hospital let's not depend on her leaving her husband and you guys being together what else can you do you know how difficult that has to do there's so much that has to happen for that to line up let's think about something that's you know let's be realistic within grass week one where can you go yeah so uh apparently stuffle said quote donna and i could run away and then he paused and the the psychologist said he looked at him and grinned and said, or I could kill him.

But it was like a sarcastic, like, you know, let me get away with that. Tongue in cheek. That could happen. So he said, yeah, don't do either of those things. Right. Just worry about. Bad plans. Yeah.

So the Arnolds kept visiting the staff. This guy's name is Dubrick, the guy who works there. He said that he and his staff members observed stuffle mrs arnold and dan arnold here donna and dan and stuffle huddling together in the hallways and they said the first impression was that there was some sort of religious thing like they were praying together some you know i don't know they're all in church and shit like that so they just assumed they were praying they said after a while though the practice was perceived as quote more sexual than anything else like they were huddling up together in the

hallways and feeling each other i don't know what was going on but that's hand jobbing that's the staff was saying it was a more sexual thing and they were ordered not to touch one another while on hospital grounds that's exactly what they're doing i feel like there was some they huddled together so they could not be seen and i don't know what was going on an actual circle jerk james yeah it's fucking so weird he said it was a sexual feeling type of thing gross that is called a circle jerk that is a little weird circle groping my word groping jerking that's the german version so they said it was inappropriate and distracting to other patients so please don't do that put those away yeah you know how that goes uh stuffel was sick from drug use he said and he called the arnolds at that point uh uh you know begging

for help that's why they ended up in the hospital he called begging for help and they said fine you know we'll put you in a hospital. You can't live here anymore. The sheriff's deputy who drove Stuffle and the Arnolds to the hospital to drop him off said that Donna Arnold was the only one who could control Stuffle. She could control him. Nobody else could. So, yeah, there was that. After they dropped him off, they had left for a week in the mountains and wrote and called Stuffol frequently while they were there. Then when they got back, they went and visited him.

They were jerking each other off or whatever they were doing. They got yelled at. It's fucking weird. So they visited him several times a week. So Bill Dubrick, who's the therapist here, he said that the sexual thing was obviously very weird. I see it. I see it happening's in front of a coke machine it's yeah just in a hall what are they doing over there everybody everybody trying not to look right like they're like they're about to pray just everybody join jenny's everybody hold the cock sorry donna

hold the cock sorry donna i'll leave you out of this one so the staff asked them to stop touching him and at one point um they were discussing discussing options for the future um you know and and he said you know i just want to run away with don he kept saying it stuff will said that also the doctor the therapist told dan at one point that by the way he's mentioned several times that he could kill you so he wants to be with your wife and you know killing you seems to be an option we don't know how serious he is but heads up on that one you know just so you know maybe you could put it to music i'm not sure so bad news yeah Yeah. So Dan told the therapist that he would lose his position with the church if he didn't end his relationship with Stuffle. But then Dan said that he would rather move than end his relationship with Stuffle. He'd rather uproot his family and his job and everything and move so he can keep this relationship going.

Why does he want it? I don't know. I want this guy out of your life as quickly as possible so now and this was actually serious because later on uh dan adana finds a resume that dan wrote out and everything like he's looking for a new job and it's dated june 8th 1984 when stuff was in the in dick so it's all it all lines up when he was in dicks yeah when stuffle was in dicks that really weuffle was in dicks. We have to take a second as comedians to recognize that we just said stuff and dicks in the same sentence. Stuff and dicks.

With a one word in between them. And it was fine. So July 5th, 1984, Stuffle asks permission to leave dicks on a weekend pass. And they said, you're going to have vaginas this weekend and this weekend. I'm sorry. Come on back for the dicks. For the d dicks leaving the dicks hospital on a weekend pass dan initially agreed that stuffle could visit them in clinton for the weekend yeah which sounds crazy but then he later called back the hospital to revoke his permit her his permission to come to his senses exactly now

dan was hysterical because he said that stuffle had told him about her affair with Stuffle. So this is before Donna just cried, didn't say anything. Now, Stuffle has detailed and laid it out for Dan. So Dan's very upset and doesn't want him to come over. So, yeah, the they said that he was, although Dan had been hysterical and shouting and crying when he called to say, don send him here then he called back the next day to said i changed my mind you could send him so stuffles therapist though um you know knowing about this craziness and also knowing about the homicidal ideations that stuff has for them uh yeah he says tell you what he talked to dan the therapist and encouraged him to

break this relationship off with stuffle just just don't do it uh so the they end up not allowing the visit this hospital staff says you're not allowed to leave this weekend just keeps him there that weekend so that weekend the arnolds brought stuffles car and belongings to raleigh and told them never to return to their home so they brought the shit to the hospital said here's all your shit never come back every day it's different come here don't come here here's all your shit don't come back next day they'll be you know this is a broke uh broken relationship this is so so ruined already it's so weird so it's completely fucked so the dubrick the therapist he said that stuffel was depressed after the visit and was sure that uh donna still loved him and wanted to be with him stuffel kept saying she loves me and

she wants to be with me i don't understand what's going on wow so july 12th 1984 stuffel is released from the hospital and now we bring in our next character yeah uh who's got a name that can only come out of small town murder great between carl Carl Edwards Stuffel and Gerald Junius Tart. Yep. Which they sound like they're looking for a golden ticket to go to Wonka's factory. Did Gerald Junius Tart get a ticket? Gerald Junius Tart. Junius.

J-U-N-I-U-S. This is a man? Gerald Junius Tart. Okay. And Carl Edwards Stuffel. Yeah. They sound like Gerald Junius Tart. And Carl Edward Stuffle. They sound like Dr. Seuss characters. They do. This is ridiculous. One's got a little curly

Q on his head. Totally. And big stupid sock feet. And the other one's got no hair on the sides just like a poof. Yep. Blonde. Yeah. Yellow. Bright yellow. So after... With unbelievably long necks. Super and size 28 yes so and they walk on the ceiling you know it so stuff was released from the hospital he after he does he

moves in with gerald junius tars yeah his friend they've been friends since they were teenagers they've been engaged in many many criminal acts together um you know they're just they've been friends since they were teenagers they've been engaged in many many criminal acts together um you know they're just they've been in and out of jail together they do drugs together it's his jerk-off teenage friend right uh now he tart gets carl a job for the same maintenance company that he works for yeah so he can you know handyman handyman shit exactly so they first met in 1981 tart and stuff oh god tart and stuff stuff. That's the worst cop show on television. They are this Thursday. They are the reason that Angie's List was created to keep gentlemen like this out of

out of your home, out of your home, doing fixing your refrigerator. Jesus. You should be replacing anyway. In the middle of the day. Right. Good God. This is horrible. They met in 1981 and they had committed break-ins and

taken drugs together and even served jail time together both as a youth and as adults so they're doing great they go back yeah he uh he said that uh that ended up happening now he asked his friend gerald junius tart on july 4th he said will you do me a favor yeah gerald junius tart you love him gerald junius you love his name so much it's the stupidest name i've ever heard in my life i was like if the rest of this story isn't good enough for a small-time murder murder gerald junius tart will do it put it over the top that better be a family name oh my god whoever picked that your uncle your great grandfather junius starts we're gonna give you his his name is her middle name because he created so

much yeah it was gonna be the orange junius but he hated it so he chose the julius get me an orange junius sounds delicious so he asked gerald junius tart he said gerald junius tart will you do me a favor yeah would you murder that Dan for me? Oh, my. Would you do that, please? Murder Dan for me. Initially, Tartt said, I guess so. Why not?

Sure, I'll knock him off. What the hell? But then he didn't do it because this is while he was in the hospital. He stuffles like, I'm in the hospital. So we'll know it's not me. So you go kill the guy and they'll go out. Who the fuck knows? You know, and it'll come out that he's been he has like boyfriends and shit.

They'll think it's one of them. Don't worry about it. You know, he's he does all sorts of stuff. So apparently Tart agreed to it, but he didn't carry it out because a police officer had noticed him loitering near the Arnold home and asked him what he was doing. He said, oh, I'm just walking here and the cop let him go. But then if the guy becomes up dead that night, if anything happens, that's happens that's the first guy you're looking exactly well i was talking to a drifter that night so that's a drifter named junius jerald junius tarts gonna stick in your brain we'll holler at that guy first no shit because i saw a cop and my name is gerald junius that's

why i can't do it do you know now tart by the's hard, by the way. So he and Tart, Stuffle and Tart. Jesus. And they all they plot to how they're going to kill Dan. Basically, how can we do it before you get out of the hospital? Then he gets out of the hospital. Maybe we can do it after you get out of the hospital. Let's figure that out. By the way.

So they're plotting to kill him. By the way, Dan has a plot, too. Oh, oh, Dan has a plot, too. By July 17th, Dan is also plotting to kill him by the way dan has a plot too oh oh dan has a plot too by july 17th dan is also plotting to kill stuffle oh this is an arms race now yeah now we have a little mexican standoff this turned into now whoever gets it first this isn't this is crazy this isn't a predator and prey situation hunter hunter yeah that's what i mean oh boy on that day he sent a letter to his friend bill pool stating that he would kill stuffle if he thought he could get away with it and he was considering

how that could be possible like i'd love to kill this fucking guy any ideas mr pool any ideas chief could use a hand i mean he's a criminal he writes this in a letter though and then mails it why would you do that he's not a criminal that's He doesn't know. So Dan asked his friend to contact. This is what Dan gets into. He's serious about this. He gets his friend to contact various drug dealers. Now, Stuffle had drawn up. This is what a scumbag Stuffle is, too.

Stuffle had drawn up a list of drug dealers that he knew. Just to know. That guy sells that. dealers that he knew just to know that guy sells that a list of drug dealers in anticipation of trying to make a deal for that firearms charge that he has oh my god he's trying to get out of that whole thing so he's basically making lists of information that he can offer the police exchange for drop charges so he's got a list of drug dealers at the house dan has that list of drug dealers dan asks his jesus frame call these guys call these drug dealers here's the yellow pages of murderers i guess i suppose here's a bunch of criminals

call them and uh yeah uh so this is dan thinks like a tv guy yeah well maybe they'll kill him it's his thought he's seen so much tv what if they yeah they'll kill him they're into one thing they're into all of it yeah that's how it would so dan hope the drug dealers would just kill stuff well that would be that and you know problem solved yeah which i mean that's smarter than the other plan i guess so the letter all but the letter says quote that's what one person says but the letter so says quote they're part of it i have told donna that in the event i cannot find someone to help me have carl done in for what he has done to us i have it in me to kill him myself i want him dead and i will not rest until he is

that's from dan my god dan speaks like a 1700s man from the west yeah this is prairie if i can't have him done in for what he done he speaks like he's writing to relatives back east yeah uh it's i've been in dodge city for seven months now i've seen many men many men killed man named carl has done some things to us if i have it in me to fix him if i in the event that i cannot find someone to help me have Carl done in for what he has done to us, I have it in me to kill him myself. I have it in me. Then ellipses, dot, dot, dot.

I want him dead and I will not rest until he is. My man. That's basically Tombstone. Yeah. He just laid down the cowboy gauntlet and he's going to go out there and do his shit. With a jacket on covered in dust. That is an amazing. He dipped his pen in his quill and ink and then he did until it's done and to seal the envelope he used wax yep he melted it so july 18th 1984 the next day this is coming to a head this is

crazy so this is uh on that night dan and uh donna participated in the service at the emmanuel baptist church and while at church there by the way that day the weird church conversation remember his friend danny staten yeah okay danny staten dan asked daniel staten to kill stuffle at church he's like hey remember i asked you to contact those drug dealers? Well, the wheels are moving pretty slow. These drug dealers, I don't know if they're backed up. It's a busy time of year. It's the summer. I don't know if they're on vacation.

Maybe it's you, Dan. They take off in July, right? The drug dealers, I think, they take the whole month off. They go to Paris that month. At least this whole week, it's 4th of July. So I can't get a hold of anybody there. You think you could just kill him for me? Weird church talk.

I remember you confronted my wife for me. So what if you is the same thing right this is asking too much it's first confront my wife okay i'm out right there but i guess if you're gonna go along with it you're friends with them that's fine then after that can you call this list of drug dealers well not really i don't really want to do that but you know what fine it's a phone call how bad could it be then hey you want to kill this no absolutely not no no you've i'm drawing the line there and he said no dan stat and said i am not killing this guy we're in church i go to church pay attention we're here right now yeah have you listening to what they're saying this whole time obviously i'm not into that you need more classes so dan informed him then well i guess if uh you won't do it i'll just contact the drug dealers

on the list and i'll see if they'll kill stuff okay look that they don't want them they don't like him anyway maybe one hand can wash another and we can both get rid of this fucking guy okay this guy's gonna rat on you and he fucked my wife so and and me so statin discouraged him from this he goes don't do that that's that's not right he said that basically he said look if you do this you're gonna end up dead yourself you're messing with drug dealers and crazy people and it's horrifying this isn't you right you're the minister of music at the church with your wife who's the organist you do this isn't what you do yeah i don't know where the hell you turned into breaking bad all of a sudden, but no, this isn't the way it works.

This is insane. I don't know when he turned into Breaking Gay, but this shit is weird. Listen, this is Breaking Dan, so I got to fix this. I'm telling you, this should be the name of the episode, Breaking Gay. Breaking Dan? Or Breaking Dan. You can't put gay in iTunes games. Probably not.

I don't know. I don't know what the hell's going on so statin uh discouraged him from doing this now after this uh they ended up returning home uh they get home after church it's night it's like a full day of church by the way this is like they don't go for an hour this is they're not worried about the games on so uh yeah so michelle honeycutt is there as well michelle honeycutt is receiving a piano lesson from donna she's a friend of theirs she's a grown woman who's getting a piano lesson by the way and i think of like an eight-year-old when i think piano lesson but if you want to learn to play piano at any age it's fine maybe it's a bucket list i mean who

knows i'd like to learn how to play a little so michelle honeycutt she says that during the lesson that donna sought uh tried to find her contact lens stuff because her eyes were irritated she had her lenses in all day so she was looking for the solution and all that shit so she was looking for it and she realized that she left her pocketbook at church that has her contact lens shit in it she's like god damn it left my pocketbook in there my lens shit's in there now what the fuck am i gonna do so she's upset she tells dan i left my damn pocket book at church so michelle honeycutt says dan said he would go back to the church and get her pocket book that's nice and michelle says that donna um and donna she offered first she said she'd go with him um you know i'll go with you we'll go together and she said and

then dan said back to her no no you stay here you and michelle practice you're doing that you don't need i'll be right back it's right over there who cares okay so um she said well i don't have to have it tonight i have some stuff in the bathroom i was just looking for it and you know it's there so if you want to go in the morning that's fine too donna i'm a good husband she's like yeah you that michelle can't play piano for shit if i hear fucked up scales one more time i'm gonna my head's gonna explode she needs the few more minutes i'm leaving yeah this is ridiculous so dan goes to church to get the purse so um about a half hour goes by yeah no dan oh 45 minutes no dan i can see it it's like 11 o'clock yeah it's right over

there it's like 11 o'clock at night though dan hasn't come back yet first they're like he probably got into a conversation with somebody that was lingering and you know he's social and whatever uh but then after about 45 minutes michelle honeycutt says we'll go let's go over and look for him since the piano lesson was over so they get so it's michelle and they get donna and the kids in the car, Donna and Dan's kids, and they drive over to the church. Their one daughter, Dana, is six years old at this point. So this is a quote from Michelle Honeycutt as they're driving up to the church. Quote, Dana was the first to see something lying on the ground. I got on her.

I said, don't say things like that. She said she thought the child was teasing. She said, someone's on the ground i got i got on her i said don't say things like that uh she said she thought the child was teasing she said someone's on the ground she was like don't say that you're done she thought she was picking on the kid was just joking around like what's that over there awful yeah she said quote then we could see someone clearly lying on the ground everyone in the car started screaming and crying um they didn't she said she didn't bring the car to a full stop she put the car and she said without even putting it into a full stop she put it in reverse which the transmission loved her for that like a cop basically what am i 12 miles an hour park jump right out the fuck are you doing to pay for that transmission

assholes back and forth we have to pay for that stop transmissions aren't free police officers sorry i see your fucking speedy chase uh videos i get lawsuits this i'm gonna save every municipality in this country a lot of money right now unless there is a life or death chase going on tell the cops to make a complete stop before putting the car in park like they would with their own car yeah at home when you go to the grocery store do you just just fucking drift float into a spot and throw it in park to stop hitting from hitting the other car parking lot transmission e-brake no you don't no one does that the automatic doesn't have an e-brake like fuck it i don't own this thing like no stop doing that i love when i see them chase people and they like pull up to like the videos the body cams when they pull up to an

event and they fucking slam it in part and then they go to jump out of the car and their seat belt isn't even undone take the time yeah while you're undoing your seat belt come to a complete stop how about that? You took a second. Yeah. You ruined the transmission, then took a second to take your seatbelt off. Let's just think about it logically. That's all I'm saying. Every time I see one of those body cam things where somebody gets shot, I watch for that

part, and then I just stop and go to the next video. I know how this ends. I don't want to see somebody die. This part's the good part. I don't like watching people die, first of all. It's not fun. Watching this guy fuck up a car and himself is my favorite part every time i'd watch any a show like that i'm like why

don't you stop first stop the car stop that extra second is that going to be the thing you're murdering my taxpayer transmission jesus so um yeah so they're they're doing this uh everybody in the car started screaming and crying. Yeah. And throws the car in reverse and went to a nearby convenience store to call for help. Everybody was screaming because they just saw somebody lying on the ground. Honeycutt here said, quote, I told them just to quit screaming and pray. No, figure this out.

That person could need help. Prayer is not what we need right now medical assistance is probably good if someone's lying on the ground you think they're in trouble the screaming is a natural reaction that you know six-year-olds do exactly get medical help and then while the medical staff are working on then you can pray about it all you want yeah at that but that let's get the thing that actually works done first and then you can pray and maybe that'll work too but i'm just saying that's fine calm the girls down but don't tell them don't uh yes so once they get there they find it is the lifeless body of yeah you don't even know who could it could be anybody at this point and we'll tell you next week dan arnold no next say to next week to find out who's

dead it's dan it's dan god damn it dan is Dan is dead on the ground in the lawn of the church. Right in the church lawn, he has been beaten and beaten about the head. Oh, my God. And his throat is cut, and he has been stabbed repeatedly. Oh, my God. Like, more than you can count. Just a vicious death. Packed up, throat throat cut beaten badly and uh

right next to him lying right next to him pocketbook his wife's purse got it yep god damn it wife's purse right next to a great husband in a pool of blood with his wife's purse there clutched in his hand um the really weird thing about this is if that's not weird enough to find the minister of music dead in the yard of the church um is once they do the autopsy and everything they find out that he was repeatedly stabbed with two different knives which is odd two-handed very strange very strange two-handed attack it's hard i've seen that once in my life and i've heard of it once and that was a kid in high school stabbed a kid with steak knives like that two of them on the first day of school he was all fucked up on dust and

shit though he did it and then he went and sat under a tree and the cops just took him but he brought steak knives and hacked this motherfucker up real bad yeah he almost died it was bad he stabbed him in the throat that was what oh yeah it's just a fountain oh yeah yeah my friend got blood all over my shirt because i learned he was in the office anyway it was bad stuff so anyway the uh wow um they find him in the lawn this is like i said very hard the children are crying hysterically obviously about this they found their dad dead which is horrible like right away too that's super fucked up yeah um they said that donna was uh used a tissue to wipe her her eyes and nose she said that she had to restrain donna with a bear hug to prevent her from running to the body and all that sort of thing she said she tried to console her saying quote donna it's

too late he's already gone as you could see that his throat was i mean it wasn't like anything you couldn't cpr wasn't going to be a help at all um she was screaming and wanted to get out of the car but she wouldn't let her do it at that point so uh after the police and rescue personnel get there they uh mrs honeycutt says that uh donna went into shock she said quote she was just kind of standing there kind of staring she said that she had to help donna back into the car uh back in there and and basically put her feet in the car for her wow she couldn't she was uh catatonic almost here and drove her back to the house so um that's weird so the next day comes up and michelle honeycutt is kind of sticking by donna to you know she's being a friend she's helping her out helping her with the kids.

Thank God for her at this point. She needs her there, you know, playing bad piano. She listened in, Michelle did, on a phone conversation. She overheard and ended up picking up the other line to hear. Yeah. Because she's nosy. Between Donna and Stuffle. Oh.

And, yes, this is apparently when St will finds quote finds out about this and uh she heard stuffle asking quote do you think do they have any leads or know anything yet that's what she heard there and uh that was the day after like we said and uh she said quote donna told him that uh we have to be strong and pray and carl said yes yes, like we talked about last week. Oh, that's what Michelle heard. So honey cut was like, okay, that's a weird thing.

Um, listening to that. And then afterwards, uh, Donna said that he called to say happy birthday. Cause Oh, by the way, it's Donna's birthday today.

Yeah. It's a, it's her birthday this day. It's the next day. Yup. He, um, she said that uh um she he just tried to act like he was surprised is what michelle got out of stuffle that's what

it sounded like to him he didn't seem surprised to me so this michelle is seeing some stuff she said quote i asked her i said donna do you think carl could have done this and she said real gentle like no he's just not that kind of person so that's what donna said and another church member said uh called donna because the press was asking about stuff now one lady said that she was quote a class a lady a model mother and was very devoted to her husband. So, poor woman. Now some letters are found. Oh boy. Oh boy. This is some letters written by Donna to Stuffel. One of which says, quote,

Words cannot fully express how anxious I am for Wednesday. By the way, Wednesday is when? Wednesday was July 18th. For Wednesday, I have real fears for your safety, though our someday is very close that's what she had written stuffle what the shit the week before also is a letter written by stuffle to donna on august 8th 1984 so a few weeks later in which stuffle asks arnold to reply he says quote wish i knew where you were all at I'd come right away if you want me to do that.

Gerald, Gerald Junius Tart, that is, and his girlfriend send their love and best wishes. He's been real strong through all this. So he's been really strong through all this. Why would Gerald Junius Tart need to be strong? Weird, right? Is it because you're crying about the loss of your friend? Well, it's a little more than that, I think. By the way, two and a half years go by.

Oh, boy. Nothing. They got no. Nothing. Oh, my. They don't arrest anybody. Yeah. They have no leads.

They have no nothing. They know there's something weird going on here. Yeah. They're suspicious of Stuffel because everything was fine. Then they bring a criminal into the house, and now he's dead. So that's a thing. And there's some weird fucking letters. There's some weird letters.

They don't know about the letters yet, so they're investigating this over this time donna collects two hundred thousand dollars in insurance as well which is a lot of money in the mid 80s still is now but in the mid 80s it's a shitload of money my mind for that you could buy a fucking huge house there as we found out for less than that now back then now in 85 you could probably buy half the town back then you probably probably buy that $300,000 house probably probably christ two of them i would think back then so um yeah i man this is this is wild donna said that stuffle uh when asked about things now they're when they talked to donna here in 1987 and and all over the years she said that she began that stuff will begin making advances toward her after her husband revealed that he was a homosexual to her that was her words not mine

she said quote one day he called me to his room and said he was so uncomfortable because he was aroused okay this is what she said yeah she said this is what stuff will this is her first sexual encounter i'm so uncomfortable my dick is so hard that's a weird thing i can't get this to go away oh man he kept on he kept on and said that this would be my way of getting even with dan she said at first she resisted but then she gave in so um sometimes you got to relieve your friends didn't you see in plain sight when that guy uh jerked off his friend yeah i mean it's just that was the same thing strangest scene ever that belongs in this yeah thing here i'm just it will not go away they say after eight hours get a doctor it's

only been six maybe you're my doctor what do i do be a wet nurse so while they were at the hospital apparently dan and donna had told stuffle that they were in love and wanted to be together but then they had you know how that kept going back and forth so finally february 1987 back to gerald junius tart the uh the kingpin of the well the lynchpin of this whole thing not kingpin right so uh gerald junius tart is picked up by the police here uh he is arrested for some other shit uh breaking and entering charge so he's arrested for that and he is facing a long prison term because this is like multiple breaking and entries entries right and he's on parole and the whole deal so his mother tart's mother who also knew stuffle at this point produced copies of the

letters that donna had sent to stuffle as a bargaining chip here so to gain tart's release like hey i know who killed that guy yeah this breaking and entering isn't a big deal look at this conspiracy murder plot that i have here so that's you think my son's a bad guy look at this paperwork so bad is he yeah so uh this leads police to stuffle who ends up uh you know in a lot of trouble here because tart tart is alleged to be the man who drove stuffle to clinton and then back to raleigh the night of the murder and also who lied to provide an alibi for stuffle during the initial phase of the investigation that's that's to provide an alibi for stuffle during the initial phase of the investigation that's that's why stuffle didn't get arrested or anything or they

stopped investigating because he had an alibi based on gerald junius fucking tart here such a silly name to say in a serious way favorite i love them police were able to at that point figure out from there what's going on and they get a confession out of stuffle yeah oh yeah stuffel gives it up pretty stuffel sings yeah stuffel sings now here's tart's story because they have different stories very different stories he said he drove stuffel to clinton on the 18th and uh because stuffel didn't want his own car being seen around there and uh gerald junius tart said he parked by a rose's department store and let stuff allow he said quote i went to mcdonald's and i got something to eat and was watching the high school girls go in and out of mcdonald's gross he's like 22 yeah but still gross um yeah i returned to my car and

waited for him when he returned he was bare chested from the waist up and had something rolled up in his t-shirt when he turned up he said hurry up and get out of here i noticed he had blood on his forearms and on his hands i asked what had happened and he said that he and dan had gotten into a fight so uh tart said on the way back stuff will said that quote said he wished it wouldn't have happened but he couldn't change it and then he told him to stop by a creek or a river. So that's a weird thing. He said on the drive back, stop by the creek or the river.

All right. He said while Stuffle was changing into spare clothes, a scuba knife with a blade about eight inches long fell from inside the rolled up t-shirt. Scuba knife. This is Tart's story. When Tart stopped by a creek, Stuffle got out,

threw the rolled up clothes and the knife into the creek and then he says, quote, we went back to my house and showered. I picked up my girlfriend from work. That's Gerald Junius Tart. Now, February 1987. I didn't do it. I'm only creep enough to eat at McDonald's and stare at high school

girls. You know, I'm just eating the Big Mac and staring at them high school girls. You think he had a Big Mac? The chicken nuggets just came out a couple years ago they're pretty good he got four 39 cent hamburgers i think he did probably with no drink no drink and a cup of water okay i have a water no ass that is the most disgusting thing so february 1987 they arrest donna too oh they arrest stuffle and they arrest donna so donna is arrested in virginia where she's with her family and she fights extradition really while she's in virginia they give her a bond and let her out of jail in virginia just while they're trying to extradite

her here is a picture of donna going to court oh donna does that look like a woman who you'd go oh man she's a wild and crazy lady no look at her ankle length ankle wrist length yeah everything covered so conservative yeah that lady is arrested for the murder of her husband that lady wow that is fucking wild i haven't showed you stuff yet she looks like the most conservative librarian on earth absolutely and we'll post that on our at murder small on twitter uh at small town pod on facebook there small town murder on instagram we'll post that so the police talked to donna here let's let's get her story and see what she says she says several months after the murder that uh that's that stuffle or i'm sorry that donna she

said that she had been in an involved in an affair with stuffle she admitted that after the after the several months later she said okay fine i wasn't an affair there she said she found out about her husband's gayness and after finding i don't know whatever after discretion indiscretion no the jet it wasn't what he did it was the point that he wanted to fuck guys all the time and not be married to her probably so uh this gayness i don't know that's i figured that the essence of his gayness is the bigger issue in marriage but it sounds like as a person it doesn't matter but in a marriage it's a problem sounds like royalty it does his royal gayness his royal gayness yeah sir daniel arnold that's what she said anyway ministry of music ministry of music so after finding his jacket stub, she says the receipt or the canceled check for the hotel.

Yeah. She said that Stuffle forced her to have sex with him three times by threatening to expose her husband's, quote, illness is the way she put it. His illness. Wow. Lady. Yeah. um yeah so um she told them that she encouraged that he had encouraged her by saying that she had an opportunity to get even and all this sort of thing she says they only slept together three times that's it three times and it was all coerced her and stuffle her and stuffle and that's not

which other people know though sure here's stuffle here yeah right there oh what young guy really yeah look at him he looks like a banker kind of on the suit he's got a beard he's a dirtbag not the beards make you a dirtbag but an 85 a beard was a not a same thing everybody was clear yeah cut and there's a it was not a fashion statement no it was just like i'm i don't want to do this and i yeah i can't get a razor that works right i'm tired of this shit so he says that a few days after he moved in with Tart, this is this is Stuffle's story now, that he and Tart broke into a scuba diving shop, stealing an assortment of equipment, including knives and spear guns. Whoa. That's what they were planning on.

What? How? Stuffle says they intended to murder Dan with a spear gun, with both of them having spear guns. Jesus. Jesus Christ. But after target practice in tart's yard i can't eat shit they deemed the weapons were unsuited to the task they said they were more accurate underwater because that's what they're made for you know they're not made for shooting the minister

of music in a church parking lot fucking nutcases not to be used in a church parking lot i should say right on the box not for shooting you know through the air at human beings you know try to avoid that this is a last-ditch effort to save you from jaws is what it is that's what it is just in case jaws is coming so tart swore uh by the other hand this is stuffles got one story tarts got another tart said he did not participate in stuffles burglary of the scuba shop and that he never had any spear guns at his house. However, Tart's former girlfriend said that Tart and Stuffle visited the scuba shop the day before the burglary and she saw a spear gun in Tart's closet. Oh, my.

So, Stuffle further says that he and Donna said that she would leave her pocketbook at the church on the evening of July 18th and then send Dan for it, giving Stuffle the opportunity to attack. How else would Stuffle know he's going to be in the parking lot? She tried to talk him out of it, James. So on that evening, Stuffle says that he and Gerald Junius Tart lay in wait in the woods near the church until Dan popped up. They said that Stuffle says that he and tart killed dan he said that he and donna were in love and that she asked him to kill dan because she feared that a divorce would be too hard on the children yeah dead father as much as finding their father's corpse is much

easier on them that's fine he agreed to kill dan only uh because he loved donna is what he said now tart this is the what Stuffle says. Stuffle says, Tart first hit Dan with a slapjack, like a weapon there, and then Stuffle stabbed Dan in the chest, and then Tart finished him off by cutting his throat. That's what he said. Wow.

Making up for the two knives. It would be hard for one person to beat, stab, cut throat with two knives. It's difficult. But also, he's only accounting for three wounds at this point yeah well he means stab i'm stabbing away and he's cutting the throat that's what he was saying so it's kind of that deal stuffle claimed that uh that tart definitely helped murder and he even said that was tart who inflicted most of the wounds he's the one who cut his throat and then hit him at first but tart stated he says no no no no no only part i played was to

drive him to the scene let him out of the car stare at some high school girls yep and then get back in yeah so prosecutors have to decide what the fuck they want to do here how do they do this who do they charge how do they charge like you're the prosecutor who do you charge here you have donnie you have gerald junius tart and you have stuffle i mean i certainly charge her uh for sure uh because she is if his story is that and that's exactly what happened you know what i mean yeah i might i might use him to uh prosecute everybody use him as the as the guy that that testifies but charge everybody who i use stuffle as the testify guy and then charge everybody okay what they end up doing the prosecutors give gerald junius tart full immunity they believe him they believe that he wasn't there they're they're gonna it's more convenient for them to believe he wasn't

there um so they believe him when he says i just waited at mcdonald's he gets full immunity to testify against stuffle yeah and they charge stuffel and donna with second degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder i think that's absolutely crazy it's pretty fucked up it gets worse though it's it's pretty interesting here so they give him total immunity there so stuff tart is just a he's just a witness at this point um yep he just admitted that. Tart also maintains that he first heard of Arnold's death. The first time he heard for sure about Dan's death was on the 6 o'clock news the following day. They asked him why didn't he suspect foul play when Stuffel returned to his car.

That's when the cops talked to him. Stuffel came back to the car with blood on his forearms and his hands, and Tart responded, I've seen a nosebleed. Oh, boy. That could have been nosebleed. Oh, boy. That could have been nosebleed. I hate him so much. He's lying like a motherfucker. He's an asshole.

He's a fucking liar, Gerald Junius Tartt. While a patient at Raleigh Hospital, Stuffel asked Tartt to kill Arnold, like we said, and Tartt testified that when he saw the blood on Stuffel's arms, Tartt asked what happened. Stuffel told Tartt that they'd been in a fight with dan and that uh you know carl told he said carl had told dan that he loved donna and uh that's how it went he's tart also said that after that night stuff will express remorse over the subject of the death so there tart's testimony uh said he said quote he told me that he could get him out of the house the day after the Wednesday night service. Stuffle said that he would leave something at the church,

and then he said that he would pay me if that's what I wanted. And Tart said that Stuffle had mentioned money could be left in Mrs. Arnold's pocketbook for Tart to take after the killing. So this is the plan that he offered him. That's a huge problem with the charges. so this is the plan i'm having a huge problem with the with the charges based on the fact that if if he'll say if stuff will say what he did and implicate his friend too he's implicating himself and i stabbed him right in the chest first stab me i did it yeah he his story his story adds up his story adds up more than tarts more than anybody's story so uh tart testify he said that

he would testify. He later will say that he said he refused to kill Arnold after the third time that Stuffel asked him to. He said, after I was supposed to have killed Dan, I just told him I couldn't do it. And then I didn't go to Clinton. That's what he said. So he said, sometime after this, Tart said that he went to a Raleigh swimming pool where the Arnolds had taken Stuffel on a day pass from the hospital. He sat on the edge of the pool and Tart said that Stuffel introduced him to Donna. Tart said that Donna was standing in the in the water talking to him while this was obviously when Dan was still alive, while her husband was playing with their daughters about 20 feet away.

Tart said, quote, She said that she and Carl had been talking and asked me if I could help them with their daughters about 20 feet away tart said quote she said that she and carl had been talking and asked me if i could help them with their problem i told them that i didn't think so uh adding quote uh one of them uh and she said uh quote money would be no problem she said okay thank you and turned around and went back toward dan and the children and then carl said that he would like to drown dan right then and there. Ma'am, your husband's right there. Right there. You're literally asking me to kill that guy. I can point him out. I mean, he's right fucking there.

I get to do it now. He heard us. Yeah. One of the, so comes up, there's a bunch of Donna's friends come forward here, talk a little bit. They say, a couple of them say that Donna was not the typical grieving widow after the death, pointing out that she even played the organ at his funeral and also for a wedding three days after the murder. God, she sucks.

She played an organ. But under later on, though, another neighbor said that she also often becomes Donna often becomes withdrawn under stressful circumstances and a Clinton locksmith. and a clinton locksmith they found he says that uh that dan arnold had hired him to change the locks in the house after the stuffle thing and that arnold had uh that dan had told the locksmith that stuffle had threatened to kill him so this is a completely and this guy's just a locksmith he doesn't know shit from shit um yeah uh also uh in march 31st 1987 1987, Stuffle is in court. And what he does is he's going to confess and he is going to plead guilty because he's charged with first degree murder. Oh, yeah. He is pleads guilty to a reduced charge of second degree murder in exchange for his testimony against Donna. Yeah.

Okay. Who's been fighting extradition still at this point he admitted that he first implicated don in the murder on the morning before his plea bargaining he said that uh because at first he wasn't really implicating her he was just saying it was the two of him and his friend and then he kind of put her into it here um he said that uh he said that while in custody he came to believe that donna only used him to kill Dan since he now believes that she was having an affair with somebody else at the time. She thinks that he was that was her game. That's what Stuffle is saying.

Stuffle swore that he was telling the whole truth in spite of the fact that he had lied to the police basically for two and a half years. Well, his whole life. So at this point, Donna's depressed. She's depressed. So at this point, Donna's depressed. She's depressed. The pastor of her church said that she went into a deep depression after she was arrested and even attempted suicide in mid-March, which, yeah, I don't blame. Nobody should commit suicide, but I get the feeling.

Her psychiatrist termed it a major depression, and her incarceration could have an effect on her competence to stand trial later and on her ability to assist in her own defense if she were freed on bond however she would not put herself in danger or represent a danger to others she'd be fine obviously um so uh yeah late 1987 she gets bail they set her bail at four hundred thousand dollars now um here's a quote quote we're more than elated i don't think it will be a problem raising the bail money. Do you know who that quote's from? Who's the pastor? That is from Robert Daniel Arnold Sr. What? That is from Robert Daniel Arnold Sr.

The Dan's dad is bailing out the mom elated. Why? Donna got bail and is happy to bail her out for the grandkids. They're her biggest supporters. They think she's innocent. What bail was set here they testified as character witnesses for her and everything she's freed on three hundred thousand dollars bond and back with her family yeah um yeah uh one of the people who chipped in on it said quote she's an exceptionally fine lady a very reserved devoted wife and very attentive mother. Oh, my God.

So, 1988 is Donna's trial. Okay. It's moved due to publicity, because this obviously was... Oh, my God. Everybody knows this. How would you not know about this? This is crazy. Oh, my God.

It was really hard to pick a jury for some reason, because there's not a lot of people, too. So, they really went through a lot picking a jury. Like, by the end of the first day, they had no jurors still. Really? They end up with six men and six women on a jury. So even here. They still have the death penalty on the table for her. For Donna.

For Donna. They're looking at that possibly for her. The defense argues that the case against her should not be treated as a capital case. And she's being charged with second-degree murder under a plea agreement. Since Stuffle's being charged with second-degree murder. And so if since stuffel's being charged second degree murder and so that wasn't offered to her why is he going to get off and not her and they were like yeah that's how court works listen you know yeah there's strategy involved in this that's yeah the judge said that he quote did not have the authority to rule on the proportionality of the sentencing and such a decision if one had to

be made would be left up to an appellate court basically complain about that shit later they also tried to impeach the credibility of stuffle who implicated her in this whole conspiracy uh the lawyer filed a motion to allow the defense to show the jury transcripts of stuffle's plea agreement as well as copies of other statements blah blah blah prosecution opening here how do you think they're going to portray this thing oh she is a monster have you ever seen the staircase yeah okay yeah when they're doing that trial that's in north carolina that's in the 90s that's well past this time that's when gay is a lot more accepted it's a very similar thing we have around then yeah we have a married couple we have this guy who's also got you know men on the side things like that they

the way the stank that that prosecutor had on her voice when she would say gay to the jury was like he's dirty right it was thick and that was in north carolina too so 84 they were laying way worse yeah uh but they had to make you know they also didn't want to demonize the victim, obviously, because that's not what the prosecutors are going for and not what we're going for. We don't care how gay you are. We just wish he would have gone and been gay and lived his life or been bi or whatever his life was, live it and not be embarrassed by it. Run it and shout it from the mountain. I don't care. I don't want anybody being blackmailed for what they know.

It's crazy. It can ruin your life in so many different ways just the pressure of society alone to dress like a man and whatever the fuck it's so dumb fuck just be you so the uh the district attorney here said that uh donna had intentionally lied to police during the investigation and everything was on purpose and it was a big conspiracy the defense opening here the defense says that uh she's a victim okay she is a victim of uh he's a prositactor with gay a quote a victim of a quote evil and dark world oh boy who allowed herself to be manipulated by a homicidal and homosexual maniac okay those go together that's her lawyer statement she's allowed she's i'll say it like him she's a victim of an evil and dark world who allowed

herself to be manipulated by a homicidal and homosexual maniac and the jury went whoa damn um yeah defense said that uh stuff will use used Arnold's connection with the church to avoid a conviction on the gun charge and also used his, quote, homosexual encounters with Arnold to bribe Mrs. Arnold into having dirty, dirty sex with him. I added the dirty. Yeah. He said that Stuffle manipulated both Dan and Darna and Donna, quote, like puppets on a string on a gay jizz covered string on a on a gay just a jizz rope just a rope of jizz can't climb it because it's slippery with jizz rope uh he told the jury also that she's a victim of two criminals efforts to keep from going to jail she said that uh she was a quote naive trusting woman trying to protect her home and loved ones from knowledge of her husband's illness.

Oh, my God. I hate it. Jesus Christ, man. I hate that so much. He's sick. That's why he's doing it. Sick. Danny's parents testify for Donna.

Really? Oh, yeah. Lots of support, too. She's supported by all her friends and family. They come and they pray with her and all that. Here's the reverend. She's a very, very fine Christian, dedicated person. Wow. friends and family they come and they pray with her and all that um what here's the reverend she's a very very fine christian dedicated person wow um here's another one i really haven't met a dearer

person than donna this is another church person so many people snowed so uh the the pediatric dentist she worked for said she's a quote very very fine person who works well with his young patients and told the jury that once she's acquitted he's planning on putting her back to work in my place because I know how innocent she is so you let her out of you're keeping her from my fucking eight o'clock tomorrow morning there's some kids that miss her down at the dentist's office

that's what he's basically said characterized her as too meek to speak out in her own defense and said she was he was proud of the way that she's standing up in trial here danny's parents oh boy man i can't believe that they said that uh uh the they said they were determined to keep she was determined she's a good woman who was determined to keep her husband's sexual homosexuality a secret that's what it was he told the jury this is the father that father is ashamed

yeah he's gay son absolutely that's why they believe or at least the kid at least the son thought he would be yeah one of the two uh he said that he uh and he is yes he's testifying for her yeah he said that he first learned his son had homosexual tendencies a few weeks after the murder when he asked investigators to show him the case file. Arnold said this is the father. The dad said that one of the investigators read a letter written by his son in which Danny revealed his fear of and hatred for Carl Edward Stuffle confessed murder of the guy confessed to him here. And he also found Mrs. Arnold sexual encounter with Stel and his gayness.

Everything is all in these letters. He said the investigators told him they suspected Donald Arnold left her pocketbook there on purpose. Both Arnold Sr. and his wife Marjorie testified. And they testified that they have full belief in her innocence. Full belief. Unreal. They said that his wife confrontedna with the fact that they were aware of all this type of shit she said that uh hoping to uh we we since she was suffering

inwardly with this grieving process they helped her get like you know help for her grieving and everything since then he said donna told them that she was sorry that they found out about the affairs and all the all that stuff and it was not necessary for anyone else to know she said it would only damage her friends and her family or friends in her church and she said she mentioned nothing about herself she just mentioned her daughters and things like that uh the father also said she always respected oh this is the mother this is marjorie she always respected danny and what danny would bring bring forth as a husband uh she always supported him parents also say they'll get her a job they'll get her a job they said even now you'll get her a job they said even now you have the highest regard for her and

he said even now oh boy they don't give a shit so they bring the letters in of course uh like we said these are obviously in there they're postmarked before the murder july 10th july 11th those letters we discussed before gerald junius tart is on the stand of course you know it he's here uh he's ready to rock and roll he said that he gave him a ride so that the stuffle could kill dan so they could start a life together he said that uh you know he did that he said he just drove him there that was the thing saw him with all the blood. Blah, blah, blah. Now, to discredit Tart, her lawyer calls Tart's former girlfriend,

who testifies that she saw an underwater spear gun in Tart's closet and was with both Tart and Stuffle when they were casing the window of the dive shop the day before, looking at the equipment that they ended up having later on. Arnold was stabbed and slashed with knives there, and Donna's defense contends that Stuffle and Tart stole the knives from that store and used them there. Another defense contention was that they were going to shoot him with the spear gun, because that's what Stuffle had said, Or that's what Stuffle had said.

But, yeah, they couldn't be shot out of water. Now, Tart denies ever having gone to the scuba shop at all. And then his girlfriend comes and contradicts him. Donna testifies on her own behalf, which is she's got to go up there and go, I'm a nice church lady. I didn't kill my husband. You've got to present exactly what everybody's saying about you. Yeah, she's charged with first-degree murder, the whole deal. I mean, she's got to get her ass up there and do some dancing. The district attorney asked her if the letter she's the letter sent around back and forth.

This is your letter. Blah, blah, blah. You know, all that type of shit. The she said that in trial, she testifies that stuff will raped her, which is this is the first this has come up at all. That's astounding. Even in the letters, this didn't come up. Tricked was one of the things. We're not raped.

That was definitely not. That's a very serious allegation, ma'am. Yeah. Well, no murders there, too. So they're all there. And he's got all the big ones. And then coerced her by threatening to expose everything there. She did not tell investigators she'd been raped because she continued to feel threatened by Stuffle is what she said.

Now, she also said that she was an obedient wife giving into her husband's wish to allow Stuffle to stay in their house. She said that even after she learned that her husband and Stuffle have had had sex in a sleazy motel. She said, I really didn't have any choice but to stay. Dan knew I really wouldn't leave him. And yeah, she said, I, you know, she just gets on the stand. She denies everything. I didn't do anything. She said, no, sir.

I never talked with anyone about killing my husband. I love Dan. Then they bring up that letter and all that. Remember that shit? She denied. She said that it's a forgery. That's what she said. There's a forgery, and Tart's parents had this forgery, and they tried to get experts in to say it was a forgery,

and the judge was like, this is ridiculous. We're not going to have a whole sidebar about the letters. This is not going to happen. There's testimony. That's plenty. So, yeah, they do all of that. Stuffle is set to testify, obviously, because he made a deal for testimony.

He testified earlier at his own thing that the relationship was voluntary and lasted several weeks and that he loved Donna very deeply at the time. During this, he invokes the Fifth Amendment. What? He won't say shit. About her? About anything. He won't say shit. About her?

About anything. Yeah? He won't answer a fucking question. He says, my name is Carl Edward Stuffle, and I take the Fifth Amendment to not incriminate myself. He does that. Won't say shit except for that. Unbelievable.

He's like a gangster. He's like a gangster up there. At her trial? At her trial. Yeah. Won't say shit. Yeah. Which is ridiculous.

Which is ridiculous. Now, the defense is pissed off that they're doing that because that's yeah because he got a deal so yeah so the defense calls him so the prosecution won't call him because he says he won't testify he says i'm not going to answer questions so the prosecution says fine fuck it then yeah no need but the defense says no make him testify you know that's what we want make the defense says make him testify but the judge says that part of the plea agreement called for him to provide truthful testimony in the case but he also said the agreement wasn't made with the defense it was made with the prosecution so that's their problem you can't request that he does that you don't have an

agreement with him you're the defense the prosecution could enforce their agreement with him but that's none of your fucking business so carry on asshole wow that's how it worked so um yeah that's how that worked now close oh my god closing arguments come up here and uh there's gonna be so many problems with this isn't there there's a lot so closing arguments come in and uh this is a five-week trial this is a lot here obviously the her lawyers here drew stories from genesis and all this shit the bible not phil collins your honor i'd like to call uh i'd like to call peter gabriel to the stand and then when that doesn't work we're gonna work with phil collins we're gonna work with phil so they i call the evidence he cannot dance he says it himself so he says uh they compare her attorneys compared donna and her husband

to adam and eve oh my god and carl uh resembled satan in the way he wormed into their lives they had to bring a religious overtone so you know it was going to happen march 16th 1988 is the verdict and they could have done these three things with donna they could acquit her obviously they could find her guilty of first degree murder or an accessory before the fact uh or find her guilty of second degree murder on an accessory before the fact so first or second degree or acquitted, basically. OK, the second degree murder instruction was made over Donna's objection. The trial judge stated he was submitting the second degree murder charge to the jury to be fair to the defendant. Since Stuffle had an opportunity to plead guilty to that offense.

That's what he said. She did not affect. She did not affect the trial court's instruction on conspiracy to commit murder. Just that whole thing. Just the added second degree murder. Jury deliberates for three and a half hours. That's quick. Just pretty goddamn quick.

They come back with a verdict of guilty of conspiracy to commit second degree murder and guilty of murder in the second degree as well. Not the first and the second. So murder and conspiracy. Donna passes out again i bet ghost catatonic here um yeah she 200 people watched her as here's a picture of her being carted out on a stretcher oh wow yeah that's her being taken out of court on a stretcher is that did he get it looks like stuff right there with the beard are there any other bearded men in north carolina did he get out and get a paramedics i think so i'm making the best of my life now in the sentencing here uh which is interesting here the judge says uh well you ma'am may fuck off consecutive sentences of 15 years for murder and 10 years for conspiracy. Oh, my.

25 years. Yeah. And you got to get paroled on one to get out and start the other. And the conspiracy, that was the max. He maxed her out on the conspiracy charge. She'll be eligible for parole in eight to 10 years, they say. to 10 years they say uh they said she said that the judge said quote that that donna had quote taken advantage of a position of trust and plotting to kill her husband and um yeah so uh she appeals this though she does based on the court she says error a court error by submitting a possible

verdict of murder in the second degree which is what she got convicted of so um they of the court said the conspiracy conviction was fine but she's appealing the murder conviction and the north carolina appeals court overturns the murder conviction the second degree not the conspiracy but the second degree murder conviction and uh but said her conspiracy should stand. She was convicted, obviously, of second degree. She is pretty, you know, the judge at this point said, quote, even if this was one of the jurors, the North Carolina Supreme Court justice said, even if the evidence was overwhelming that Mrs. Arnold procured or counseled co-defendant Carl Stuffle to commit the crime,

it's not readily apparent that that said counsel caused Stuffle to commit the crime, it's not readily apparent that said counsel caused Stuffle to commit the murder. So she said he was in on it. A myriad of reasons for killing Dan Arnold is what they said that Stuffle had, but not really her. So what they end up doing, basically, the evidence presented in this case clearly shows a premeditated and deliberate killing. The trial court erred in submitting the possible verdict of second degree because the evidence supports only a possible verdict of murder in the first degree.

So they overturn the murder charge. They can refile. They can refile with first degree murder. They can do all of this, but they don't. They choose not to. They choose not to. So she has a 10-year conspiracy charge, But they don't.

They choose not to. They choose not to. So she has a 10-year conspiracy charge. Holy shit. Which right after this appeal, April 30th, 1991, she is paroled from jail. Now, Stuffle has life in prison is what he's got, plus 10 years for conspiracy. So it's 50 years is the life and then 10 years for conspiracy. It's over for him. So he's got 60.

So she's paroled April 30th, 1991. So she did about 10 years for conspiracy it's over for him 60 yeah so she's paroled april 30th 1991 so she did about three years he's got to be for this 2011 he is released on parole as well stuffle is let out oh my why are you letting this guy out is he the guy you want to let out really no no he's the last guy i want to let out we'll max him how old is he now shit was he 62 not even 60 oh my fuck he's still spry enough to murder dangerous still spry enough to be dangerous here um pretty crazy sleep tight james sleep tight everybody north small town north carolina there was a book written about this yeah uh called the hymn of commitment by an independent newspaper editor yeah him yeah uh sherry matthews wrote that and then in 2016 they made a low budget movie out of it 355 000

budget which is that's low for a like a murder story like this like a big murder story it's called tarnished notes okay and uh the plot, because they change names and stuff, based on true events, Tarnished Notes tells the story of a love triangle murder between a Southern Baptist minister of music, his wife, and their lover. In 1984, Jim and Judith Daniels moved to a small town eastern North Carolina as they began their new life. Jim meets a young man with a troubled past. Judith does whatever she feels any mother would

do to protect her family thinks it's hot thinks it's hot uh yeah 355 000 the actress in it uh carrie moscoe was uh appeared in the show one tree hill oh interesting i think she plays the donna she plays the tree that he's found under it has a 7.1 out of 10 on imdb but it's only like 10 10 ratings so it could be just the same movie yeah and uh robert daniel arnold jr is buried um in the springvale cemetery in clinton north carolina and uh he's obviously not moving everybody is out everybody's out out. Oh, my God. I am horrified. Yeah, I'm very horrified by this whole shit.

Well done, North Carolina. Good job, everybody. I don't know what the hell. You need like a post-game show to talk about what the hell should have happened, what could have happened. I don't know about the Tart thing. I feel like, in my opinion that stuffle and tart killed dan together yeah because two knives and a beating and all that sort of shit that's two

people i'm sorry it's two people that's two people yeah i believed stuffle i believe when they got stuffle in there he spilled it yeah i believe he went i don't give a fuck anymore sure we did that shit because i'm fucking him fucking this one i'm fucking that one i don't care i'm going for murder anyway he's everybody's blowing it north carolina's justice justice system's on board doing the same that's what i mean good lord he was he said that you know tart cut his throat but he also put himself in for stabbing him in the chest so he wasn't like i stood by horrified while tart murdered i couldn't believe you did it that would be bullshit obviously but this one you go that sounds like the most likely story probably i mean i don't know it's allegedly in our opinion i don't believe for fuck i don't believe him for fuck no i don't believe anybody i'm the only person i believe

is carl and he's the biggest scumbag of the worst guy i don't understand that he's the most somehow the most believable out of this whole deal for me unbelievable this is a crazy ass story man if you enjoyed that story or just perplexed by it tell us about it give us uh give us a review on apple podcast that purple icon tell us all you want give us five stars doesn't matter what you say but you got to say something it helps drive us i'm gonna be sick say that to say i'm that case made me sick so there's that uh also head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Tons of good merch up there right now, by the way.

All sorts of cool stuff up there. And in addition to that, though, more importantly, get your tickets to the live show. Right. January the 29th, 2021 live show, virtual live show, I should say. But we are going to do it just like we're going to pretend like our studio that we film it in as a theater. We're going to do the same thing. Have the table. We're going to have mics.

So the sounds great. We're going to have the good visuals. Everything's going to be awesome. Get those tickets right now. It'll also be available for 72 hours after it ends. So it's going to be beautiful. Shut up and give me murder.com right now. Also, follow us on social media at murder small on twitter and facebook

at small town pod on that was that murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram that way you can all confuse it's all confusing that's what's available what are you gonna do so you can as crystal clear as North Carolina's justice system perfect

I can't fucking believe it's insane so you can do all that. Follow us on social media so you'll know about things like live shows and stuff like that. And in addition to that, if you would like to be a patron,

oh, also listen to Crime and Sports, damn it. Listen to Anthony Grundy, this week's episode. It's unbelievable. It's really good. It's truly, this week we got you two good ones.

This week you are set. You're covered, man. So thank you for doing that. But yeah, listen to Crime and Sports. Also listen to PSA Hate This Movie because I got to watch fucking Twilight on Saturday. So make it worth my while at least. At least listen to the goddamn shit.

I had to listen to Love Actually last week or watch that pile of shit. Yeah, watch it. So anyway, yeah, do all that. Listen to our other shows and everything. But if you want to be a Patreon supporter, you get lots of stuff for that. Number one, you're a producer,

which really doesn't do anything for you personally, except thatimmy will mispronounce your name which is kind of funny so you can read it you get that and you're a producer so thank you you're part of the team and you make us feel good here and hopefully that makes you feel good and uh you're gonna get lots of bonus episodes though over everywhere are all over there at patreon.com slash crime and sports bonus episodes last week crime and sports bonus episodes. Last week, crime and sports bonus. You get it all with your one donation. By the way,

crime and sports bonus was personal ads from the seventies and eighties and like Missouri and New Jersey. It is hilarious. They're some of our funniest shit is that. And then a small town murder. We did Christmas murders throughout history that were really funny to wild stuff. And then the next small town murder,

Patreon will be the worst town reviews I can find i can't just people savaging places it's going to be a personal beefs try to figure out why they're so angry it's going to be hilarious not enough high school girls in the mcdonald's not enough you can get all of that at patreon.com slash crime and sports anybody over the $5 level. And if you just want to be a producer, have Jimmy mispronounce your name and feel good about yourself and have us really like you. You can do that very easily as well over at PayPal using our email address. Crime and sports at gmail.com. My love. Which is also, by the way, our email address to get a hold of us at.

That said, damn it, I've heard enough. Jimmy, you need to stalk me down in a church parking lot and give me the names of the people who we love more than anything. Do it now, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are John and Susan McQuilkin, in memory of Phyllis McQuilkin, who would hate us. And that makes me very happy. That's pretty funny. That's what Susan told me. who would hate us, and that makes me very happy.

That's pretty funny, but thank you. That's what Susan told me. Also, Craig Cole, Rachel Amaza, Jared Durkee, Duncan Wilson, Elizabeth Goldstein, Jordan Bennett, Eric Peterson, Scott Barr, I hope he's Matt Barr's son. I love Chris, too. John Knickerbocker, Jackie Purney, Tim Wooten, Vanessa East, Melissasey ethan morrissey joy joy uh mungin mungin mungin and star heart thank you guys so much for everything you do truly we can't do it without you other producers this week are thomas smith uh trisha hempstead happy birthday cameron's oh no yeah cameron smith jayden patterman uh bud permenter katherine corlisses i don't she

donated both ways thank you so much katherine uh jude kendall kimberly cool cooey uh peyton meadows liz vasquez maria kip soosley cody baker madeline isaacs max ringstad rebecca ales uh steve chanel oh steve thank you so much steve uh bill says nate uh susansky i miss toby already man he lost his pup this week man that's brutal oh sleep well toby uh jessica masary uh maze yeah masary masary i don't know christina bummingo yep uh carrie butter oh larry butterfest it's his birthday happy birthday just i said that uh robert suck su catch janice hill stephanie gropebeck kendall passmore amanda knight elizabeth ann collins monica hernandez killian holsvaler uh john henry brandy

tomb travis marshall duck holiday yes cool wait what who john henry oh yeah yes uh where did i go brett killian amanda m melissa turner alison wolf jess with no last name markie beasley ann marie pine danielle webb amanda journey chris garver tim holzem julia shiri viv what shirayev shirayev shirayev trey trey phillips amber kelly you're struggling i know olivia foley car Carla Perry, Emily Rudder. Is that the other light on? I need a water. Lisa with no last name.

No. Yeah. No. I don't know. Sherry Mullen, Valerie Alba, Ashley Bowden. Dowden. Bowden. Oh, that's a D.

That's Dowden. Kayla Bass. That's amazing. We're going to blame darkness on the first one. But you can read with lights. Sarah Conkle, Reed Shindell, Jay Soule, I think. Kayla Bass or Bass? I think it's amazing. We're going to blame darkness on the first one. But you can read with lights. Sarah Conkle, Reed Shindell, Jay Soule, I think. Kayla Bass or Bass, I think it's Bass. Maura Siebert, Adam with no last name.

Rebecca Allen, Anna Hill, Casey Lance, Deanna Hodge, Brian Hood, Amanda Oaks, Bailey Bunting, Julia with no last name, Jeff Watts, Danielle Nelson, Brian Carquet, I think. No. Chase and Aaron. No. name jeff watts danielle nelson brian carkay i think uh no chase and aaron melissa clark ashley burns darcy sherman roberta bircham uh anna zurich angela cory ray cosker john o'hara o'hara ainsley luon i think david springer jamie goldberg keenan uh keenan aynan aina aina oh boy oh gaga um oh fuck oh oh gaga um i'm so sorry gave it a valiant effort it's never gonna happen alan uh hawkins cheyenne writer brandon sasson season uh jesse would know last name chris would know last name christine rigney christian would know last name manny edwards ben ingram blair fanning leshawn darby fox on stilts i guess she or he is very hot and tall cool i

Jordan Byers uh ellie or e lee jasmine c vatan greg briggs alissa alissa tyler uh vera thorster Alyssa, Tyler, Vera Thorisdoter, Krista Sovolati, Jesse James, Tyler S., Matthew Pope, Sana Puri, Danelle, Heather Shaw, Ryan Golaniak, Jen Lucas, CJ Hempel. Beth with no last name. Joshua Lee. Nope, that's Neil. Clements. Derek Young. Debbie Stacy. Tanner with no last name. Gailey Hawley. Geralyn Emig.

Jesse Grams. I like the measurement of weed. I like it. Candice Williams. Brie Phillips. Daniel Garipi. Nope. 13 Foxtrot.

Holly with no last name. Haley Jenkins. Haley Grindstaff. Heidi Elaine. Robin Picks. Chris Solomon. Mendy Schmidt. J. Lynn Eaton.

Rice Probin. Princess Dogface Girl. What? Alicia Russ. Wendy Stanich. Michael Kulikan. Bradford Von Beers. He's up in New Hampshire, I learned this week.

Jenny would know last name. Leslie Moore. Jacob Haverfield. Blake Lux. Amanda Ward. Katie Morrison. von beers he's up in new hampshire i learned this week jenny with no last name leslie moore jacob haverfield uh blake lux amanda ward j uh katie morrison riley walker and bryson oliginec fire starter pizza i i guess it's good i don't know eric burt i have some burt quinn kunze uh melanie fagan kate hyan whitney weatherholt horton what the fuck lisa henderson kelly kintop thomas cox margaret clark kelly doraco marine tracy hayley suxton uh laurie bowman joe i put a little extra sucks on that sorry johann bacon queen city psycho uh dylan robinson laurie bowman Joanne Bacon, Queen City Psycho Dylan Robinson Lori Bowman, I said that, Jen Wallace Adam Ellison Quinn

Ruben Nunez, Katie Sueda Johnson, Mary Lou Brian Dre Stahl, Drastel Matthew Goff, Jacob Powers Justin Hornecker, Jenna Rome, I think it's Jim's daughter, Jen Wallace I think I said that, Amy Levesque V with no last name, just V like Vendetta

Greg Freetage Nathan Musak Jen Wallace, I think I said that. Amy Levesque, V with no last name, just V, like Vendetta. I like it. Greg Freetage. Confidence. Yeah. Nathan Muzak, like the system. Rafael Garcia Ramirez, Beach Fox. We have one on a beach and one on stilts, apparently. Oh, look at us.

Jennifer Smith, Patrick Waits, Elrod, William Valencia, John Karpash, Randy Reed, Jeffrey Lanier, Anna Marie Campoy, Deborah Bob, Jacob Foster, Bob Davies, Aaron Szymanski, Andrew Fuchs, Sarah Jones, Natasha Tazzy Plissken, Candice Fitzpatrick, Liz Johnson, Lance Tafoya, Michelle with no last name, Matt Hatton, Jeremy Eagleston. Eggleston. Austin Koch or Coach or Coke. Could be any of them. John Clausen. He gave it the full run. Dee Hart. Robin Lincoln Codjoe. What? Jesse T.

Eric Watson. Sierra Stenfner. Fucking what? That's too many N's and F's together. Mary Ann Jack. Yep. Mary Case also. Wilson Wilsoff, which is fantastic. That's a great name. what that's too many n's and f's together mary ann jack yep uh mary case also wilson wilsoff which is fantastic that's not real but it's fantastic brian riley tracy no it's not it's

tom chapman because i love tracy sorry sheila connor also got a fast car she is fantastic she is i love that woman owen mitchell james Bethel, Tristan Lafoya, Chantel Goyette, Sarah Lathrop, Dallas Grimm, Mary Lynn Patio, DeAndre Floyd, Rich Carter, Tiffany F., Brianna Shores, Kathleen Legg, what is this, Greg, Hot Chickaroo Pilkington. I miss Hot Chickaroo. That was a great song. Prof with no last name. Sarah Frances Ralston. Hot Chickaroo. That was a great song. Prof would know last name. Sarah Frances Ralston.

Hot Chickaroo. Krista would know last name. Deborah Johnson Chin. Kelly Corletto. Wendy H. Sarah Frances Ralston. I said that. Homestretch here.

Melissa Perrin. McCord Brickle. Keith Sardi. Christy Rayner. Katie Clark. Lila Cummings. Skylar Adamansky. Adamsky. Adamsky? Adamsky. Rainer, Katie Clark, Lila Cummings, Skylar Adamansky, Adamski,

Adamski? Adamski. I don't mean Adamski thing. Stephanie Lee, Jimmy Ryle, I think. Lyle. Lyle. Lyle. Sarah Darling, Maria Meyer, Haley Stefkovic, Paul Hively, Hively.

What do you want me to say? Your tongue was like, don't say, don don't stay don't say stiff kakavich don't stay don't say it brian choice melanie argüeda uh jeff kuhn patricia herman maddie mcallister susan wheatley nicole simper matt uh hugum hugheim jordan bell and hannah gibson joy mcmeans uh nicole hodgson jamie magiera uh sherry holland tommy reed taylor becker espen not noted in natadon josh nowak noick no no vac i don't caleb pearson i don't know what i'm doing how to pronounce maddie decker uh samantha roman and all of our patrons you guys thank you so much for everything you do we can't Caleb Pearson. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to pronounce it. Maddie Decker. Samantha Roman. And all of our patrons.

You guys, thank you so much for everything you do. We can't do it without you. Thank you so much, everybody. We really appreciate it. But going into that, into the shouts, I said that and Jimmy goes, Jesus, James. That was grim. It was dark. Grim, mate.

Not grimmer than this story. What are you going to do, though? Thank you, guys, truly, for everything you do for us. This is the last show of the year. Thank you for everything you've done all year for us. It's been a magical year. No, it hasn't. Yes, it has. No, it hasn't.

Yeah, black shit, like dark, underground, terrible magic. Some Baton Rouge magic. Yeah, some like David Blaine knockoff. He's not even good at it. He's just like, I have eyeshadow on. You saw where I put the card, right? It's in my butthole. Are you going to go after it?

How can they get a hold of you in case they want to get a card out of your butthole? You can find me on the internet. I'm around it. At Westman Sucks. It's on Instagram and Twitter. What about you? I am at Jimmy P is funny. You can find me on there somewhere.

You know how to copy and paste names and find people if you need to and thank you guys for the nice words you said about my father it's very nice of you to give a shit I appreciate it I'm terrified

he's terrified everybody's terrified now we have reasons because fucking lunatics are on the streets yay perfect Christ Christ

that said I think it's time to call it a week and say thank you so much to everybody. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.