Small Town Murder - #227 - Intensely Intensifying Bloodbath - Morgantown, West Virginia

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

This week, in Morgantown, West Virginia, an isolated house, at the top of a hill is the setting for a very confusing bloodbath, that leaves a lone survivor, a wild story, and possibly some aliens. A man grows progressively stranger, and stranger, until an explosion of violence erupts, but is he in his right mind, or simply defending his home from otherworldly beings? A very crazy story! Along the way, we find out strange things happen in the hills, that staying awake for 4 days can give you some odd thoughts, and that no quarter should be given to alien invaders, trying to pose as your family!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts# See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Morgantown, West Virginia, an isolated mountain home is the scene of a bloodbath leaving only one survivor,

a crazy story, and possibly some aliens. Welcome to Small Town Murd. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us this week and welcome everybody back if it's your first episode welcome into the den of crazy you've chosen wisely because this is a this is a weird one this is definitely a strange episode that you're gonna oh boy it's gonna be one of those ones that people are gonna reference for a while like remember that crazy that crazy thing? That was nuts. But thank you so much. If you haven't done it yet, please help us out.

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It's funny. It's really not that much about sports. And there's a whole lot of crime and craziness to make fun of there. So check that out. Get your merch over there at the shut up and give me murder dot com and also tickets to live shows, the full spread of live shows throughout 2022. And there's a couple, I believe, that have tickets at the end of 2021 here as well. So get your tickets right now and get everything else at shutupandgivememurder.com.

Also, you should listen to P.S. I Hate This Movie because I have to watch Twilight. And, you know, if I'm doing that, please, you know, give me some listens here. I'm doing my part. I'm doing my part here in the world. So check that out. And another thing you're going to need to check out listens here and it helps out. I'm doing my part here in the world. So check that out. And another thing you're going to need to check out is Patreon because it is good. Patreon's so good. This is the show is we try to really put on a great show and it's free.

You know, we're just putting it out. So if this is, you know, five dollars for all the bonus stuff. Oh, my goodness. Do we put on? We really try hard. We'll put it that way. We feel the desire and the need to really be funny about it. So we have a couple of crazy episodes this week. First, you have access to everything with your Patreon dollars, of course. First, for the crime and sports bonus, we have the Atlanta Gold Club story, which is a big strip club in Atlanta where a bunch of professional athletes went and then they got in trouble, the strip club, and had a big trial and all these athletes had to testify about these services rendered

therewith under oath. And it is crazy. So check that out. Gross, gross words. And then for the small town murder one, we are going to kind of do off of that Sons of Sam documentary that's out where they're saying that, you know, David Berkowitz acted, didn't act alone. And there's a whole cult behind him and they're switching off tag team and the shooting.

It's a lot of fun and all this. Well, I read the book that that's based on, that the whole documentary is based. They're talking about the author, Maury Terry, the book, The Ultimate Evil, all 20 something hours of it on Audible. I read the entire thing, and oh boy, do I have a lot to say about this craziness, because there's some really nutty stuff there and some crazy conspiracy stuff, and it's a lot of fun, so check that out. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports right now, and you'll get a shout-out because you're a producer, so that's a big deal, and Jimmy will mispronounce your name horribly at the end of the show

while trying his best to do it right. And if you just want to have good karma and our undying affection and be a producer and get your name mispronounced, you can also do that at PayPal using our email address. Crimeinsportsatgmail.com. There it is. And thank you so much for everything that everybody does, honestly. You're goddamn heroes. We need the disclaimer quickly. This is a

comedy show everything's real the murders are real obviously we don't embellish anything which is this week you're gonna go that come on but seriously we don't embellish anything for comedic value or anything like that it's just stories are crazy that's why they're funny because it's not the murder part that's the funny part the murder part is sad always it's always like oh that's terrible but the idea of i bet we can get away with this is crazy and the things that you're going to try to do in that way it's just crazy so that's the way we like to do it we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victim's family because why because we're assholes but we're not scumbags. That's how it works, everybody.

So if that sounds good to you, let's have a good time and hear about a crazy story and all that. If not, if you don't think true crime and comedy should ever, ever go together, it might not be for you. It might be. You might have a complete misconception of what you're dealing with here. So give it a shot, but don't complain afterwards if you don't like it. That said, I think it's time to sit back and shout. Shut up. Give me murder. Give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. I would love that. Let's go on a trip here. Let's get going. We are going down. Oh, by the way, this is episode 227, which is wonderful. And that's just a big shout out to marla gibbs put it that way who 227 the tv show oh she was yeah she's mary mary that's just she's not the

one saying mary that's okay but that's yeah that was like one of my grandmother's favorite shows so i watched that it's hilarious all the time the time. Oh, I love 227. It was hilarious. And Calvin and all that. It's a great show. Anyway, this is the 227 episode. The Mary episode. So we're going to West Virginia again.

Okay. Our last stop, of course, was Gourmania, brother. Yeah. Gourmania 2021. You may ask. That was West Virginia. That was West Virginia. Gourmania, brother You may ask. That was West Virginia. That was West Virginia. Gourmania, brother.

I'm coming for you. I'm coming for your title at Gourmania 25, brother. And evidently, that is what it's called. It is. No, it's Gourmania. It's amazing. We hit the jackpot. That might be the best town name in the history of town names.

It's close. It really is. For us, anyway. For our purposes. Here we're going to Morgantown, West Virginia, which is a college town. Is it? Yeah, it's where the Mountaineers are there, the college. Got it.

It's northern West Virginia, which is just a bunch of jutting out panhandles. So this is all, West Virginia is all panhandle all the time. It's wild. And I like, West Virginia seems awesome because, I'll put it thishandle all the time it's it's wild and i like west virginia seems awesome because i'll put it this way it seems like it's a crazy place but the people there are all like oh this place is it's fucking awful man hell yeah they're but they're like they wear it as a badge of honor so i love people like that who don't give a shit and they wear it as a badge of honor as opposed to like no they know that it's crazy and they're like, yeah, and I survived this shit.

What's that make me? That's what I mean. They get it. That's what I'm saying. Everyone's from somewhere shitty. That's what I mean. Whenever anybody gets upset at us for making fun of a town, it's like, we don't think we're from somewhere better.

No. This is just up on the roasting block. That's all. That's what we're doing. It has nothing to do with, let's pick on these people because we're better than them. Not at all. We're awful. Listen to the Fishkill episode.

I destroy it. Rip the place apart. So anyway, Morgantown, all panhandle. It's about an hour and a half to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, so not too far from there. About three hours to Columbus, Ohio. You go west. And then about an hour and 20 minutes to Gormania, brother. That's right.

Episode 202. So it was only six months ago. People might ask, why are you going back to West Virginia? Well, we're going back there because we had a different episode planned, actually. I had a plan for six months in my schedule. And another podcast, which I won't name but a podcast that's has a lot of listeners and shit apparently did it like a month ago and so i i was up for two days and stayed up at 5 30 in the morning doing this show and i was it's a great i was so proud of it it's it's a really

great story and then i just happened to come across that and i went oh now you now you're so mad it was yeah it was bad so here we are but this is a good story too it's just i didn't intend to do it this week just had to be a pinch hitter and it's going to come in and hit a home run as a pinch hitter great this is in mon uh monongala county monongalalia what the fuck monongalia county sorry monongalia monongalia m-o-n-o-n-g-a-l-i-a like somebody misspelled mongolia kind of yeah they added an extra o-n in there it's monongalia monongalia i don't know what the you, somebody with a with the impediment of some kind was in the non-goly. Yeah. Yeah. We was shit faced. Monongolia, some shit. I don't know.

There's coal here. Yeah. Area code 304. It's about 10 square miles. The history of this town will breeze through here. Now we got to talk about Colonel Morgan, not Captain Morgan. No, this there's a man who's thought to have the first permanent settlement here in West Virginia. I mean, not in this town at Cool Spring Farm. And his name is Colonel Morgan Morgan. Stop.

His name is fucking Morgan Morgan. I'm not kidding, Jimmy. His name is fucking Morgan Morgan. I'm not kidding, Jimmy. His name is Morgan Morgan. Why? I don't even. He was born in like the 1600s. But who cares? The late 1600s.

You're still not naming your kid Morgan. Why have two names? Never. Morgan Morgan. Hi, Jimmy. I'm Petrogallo Petrogallo. It's a pleasure to meet you. Ah, Christ. The only person who can do

that is tony tony tony and at least he spelled it different wasn't that three tony's three different tony's there's an i and e a fucking accent on one of them perfect this is this is not working though but i think the i think tony tony tony was three different dudes named tony wasn't it i don't think so i think it was one guy i swore it was i don't i don't know i think it was one dude i always called the one i don't think i ever saw a video i just know one song from him that's all i know him them i don't know it's one i swear to god tony tony tony's one guy i was pretty sure it was three dudes named tony wow that just fucked up my early childhood it's some late 80s shit like oh man i always thought that was one guy it might listen i didn't i'm telling you i never bought a cassette and i

never saw a video so i don't know one of our minds is going to be blown when we look this up afterwards you don't have to tweet at us or anything like that well trust me as soon as this is over we're gonna run to look up tony tony tony so one of us is gonna lose our shit today you know it so morgan morgan popped up in west virginia in 1731 and he was appointed to the commission of the peace which was uh because they fought a lot the. The natives and the settlers fought a shitload a lot over West Virginia. There was a lot of haggling over that, a lot of back and forth, and a lot of treaties and deals, and then back and forth. They fight for a while.

It went on for a while. It's up there in the woods, so nobody really cared. They didn't know what the hell coal was, I don't think, probably yet. It probably wasn't on their plate of demands. Yeah. I don't think they could drill deep into the earth quite yet. So they said the first permanent. They always say that it was that he was the first permanent resident.

Morgan Morgan here. Yeah. He was like the sheriff or some shit. Leader of the peace commission of the peace. I don't know. He was like a negotiating party maybe to try to. I don't know. Get work out land deals i'm not

sure what it was but he's a he's a colonel he's a colonel he was in military he was in the military uh he fought and things and everything like that i mean he wasn't uh he wasn't just saying i'm the colonel he wasn't you know doing that sort of thing so he had eight kids, and they were James and David Charles, Henry, Evan, Zach Quill. What? And then number eight, Morgan Morgan II. Oh, no. Morgan Morgan squared. Morgan Morgan Jr.

What the fuck are you doing? Morgan Morgan again. Again. So Zach Quill ended up, he's the guy who settled this area, you know, quote, settled it, is Zach Quill. He's the first guy who settled this Morgantown area here. And so, there you go. He fought in the French and Indian War and also the American Revolutionary War.

And he also became a colonel. Really? There you go. Yeah. Glass ceiling of the Morgans. That's how it works. Is Corporal below Captain? i don't know i have no idea it might be i don't know that we should find that hierarchy i'm not sure i'm not sure how that

goes exactly it's got to be lower because there's a lance corporal right and that person's uh below a colonel not corporal corporal's low but colonels oh you're right colonels right like i think colonels below general like it's is right. I think Colonel's below General. Is it? Yeah, I think it's pretty high, Colonel. It might be a big deal. I think it's above Captain. It's possible.

I think it is. No. We don't know anything about this because we're cowards. Because I was a chicken chip. You're right. So anyway, the cable television network, MTV, you might have heard of that used to exist. I know it still does. That I didn't watch Tony, Tony, you might have heard of that used to exist. I know it still does. But I didn't watch Tony, Tony, Tony on. No, you missed Tony, Tony, Tony completely.

In October 2006, they they they I guess they said they were going to tape a reality show series about some Morgantown high their choir and they do all this shit. And the show was scheduled to premiere in spring of 2007 and never came out. So they were very disappointed about that. Now, reviews of this town. I'll give you a good one first, obviously. And there's a lot of decent ones here. Here's five stars. Five stars.

I love Morgantown so much I'm glad to call it home. That's big. It being a small town means there's not a ton of traffic the people are really sweet and nice and the college west virginia university is right in the middle of town and there are multiple elementary middle schools and high schools well that's helpful yeah you don't want to just the kids wander the streets and collect pans and bottles and try to turn them in for nickels it's a very flowing town with very little crimes. What does that mean?

Flowing town. Easy. He's obsessed with traffic. It's a very diverse place, and I would live here as long as possible. So they love it. Here, one star. Not as happy. One star.

1.5 years here. Three of 17 people are kind. I feel like, did they go around with a notebook and keep track that's a little tally slash marks not kind remember when you had to build the little graph in school and you had to like uh go have experiences and then like jot down and then make the little bar graph and perhaps that's what they're doing. This person's a hardcore journaler here. Really into it. You got a kind graft I'm building. Well, it gets funnier.

Three of 17 people are kind. I was punched by my assistant manager and fired. What? Your assistant fired you? That's called a mutiny, sir. I feel like he's not the manager. He's an employee employee and the assistant manager punched him and then fired you're so bad at this i'm gonna hit you and fire you i feel like you have to pick one as an employer you can hit a person yeah because it's the towing

but he said company towing companies will destroy you with capital letters this guy's got it in uh landlords have been nasty or good no in between okay very varied you're always reminded all capital letters quote it's your fault here no matter the issue by by whom who is reminding you all the time at least a towing company and an assistant manager this is like a serial killer letter this is crazy he's mad and the way the paragraphs are too it's really weird um no matter the issue remember that if you move here i'm sorry to sound so negative not much good here other than the three of 17 people being humanly kind they genuinely met 17 people yeah and and got three of them in the kind category. So, wow.

So let's find an in-between here because those are really different reviews. Two stars. Okay. I was born and raised in Morgantown. It's a terrible place to raise a family. All righty. The students match the number of residents. That's true.

It's the half college students. While children are growing up, they can be exposed to things at a much younger age than most because of this. There is not. Oh, boy. College guys going to fuck townie girls. I didn't think of that. Gross. Yeah.

High school girls probably to showing up at keg parties. Yeah. The offensive line of the West Virginia Mountaineers showing up at the fucking keg party. That's not a good thing when you're 17. The juniors. Yeah. This is my sophomore, you know, end of sophomore year party. There is not much to do in the summer.

It's boring. There are not a lot of jobs except for the hospitals and college. It is a nice place to attend college if you want to party. If you want to party, question mark. I don't know why there's a question mark. Yes. Other than that, go somewhere else. I did. West Virginia, not just Morgantown, is a black hole always trying to suck you back. Oh, wow. That's they hate this place. It wants you back. It's just when I think I thought I was out. Yeah. Pull me back in. People here. Population 30,099, so almost 31,000. It's up 16% since 1990, so quite a bit.

Everything is a little off here. Male population is 55.5%, which is way off. It's usually more averages with a few more females. Median age here is 24.1. Okay. That's mad young. Yeah, it's usually 4 38 almost here 18 to 24 that age group is 43 of the population that's a that's a very young you know they were right so that

those are the students you know and uh married populations half of what it normally is only 25 here right married uh all that type of shit but, not a ton of the single with no children category. What? Normally it's 10%. Here it's 13%. These college kids are fucking. They are knocking each other up left and right. I don't know what the hell is going on here.

If condoms are not available down in the mines or what's happening, but holy shit. I did not know there were so many parents going to West Virginia U. It's wild, right? Yeah. This is insanity, man. That's like so much. Holy shit. I mean, yeah.

That's a lot. Tempe would be chock full of it too if it wasn't for abortions. Oh, yeah. I don't know if maybe that's not easily accessible in Morgantown or what. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Morning after pill, not exactly.

I'm sure in Tempe it's very, very. Oh, I'm sure it is. Yeah. You can get a breakfast burrito in the morning after pill delivered to you, I believe. I think, right? From one of those breakfast places. I think they have those down there. I'll bet Uber Eats will drop you off

the morning after. They probably will. And a breakfast burrito. In Tempe, anyway. Leave it at the door, please. I don't want to see your face. Please. Please leave. Plan B and a chorizo for you i left it on the doorstep sweetheart good luck good guy walks away so i know you're paying girl good luck Race of this town, 84% white.

It's pretty white. 5.3% black, which is less than half the average. 4.5% Asian, almost average there, and about 3.2% Hispanic. So it's pretty white. 29% of the people here are religious. It's usually about 50-50. It's always like that with the college kids. percent of the people here are religious it's usually about 50 50 it's always like that with the college kids you know they it's like the kids that young 20 years old they're like i am god what

are you talking about yeah i can be destructible and i'm god and then once people get as we've seen a ton once if there's a lot of old people in a town if they're less religious too because they're like i've lived long enough to see that that's all bullshit too like they don't care i don't need God anymore. I'm going to die anyway. It's a mixture between that and if he existed, he wouldn't give me diabetes and dementia. Or they forgot that they believed and that they were religious. That's that too.

Any of that. Whereas the middle people there that are like, what's that pain? Is this a lump right here? What is that? Those are the people who are believing more in God. It's spread around a lot, actually. A few Catholics, some Methodists here and there, some other Christian faith. Not a lot of Jewish people here, though.

That's weird in West Virginia. You expect a mountaintop in West Virginia. You expect a large Jewish congregation. But, no, politically here, it's pretty even. 48.2% voted democrat in the last election 49.4 republican about 2.4 independent so it's pretty even for west virginia which is a a very red state uh here but the college town so you get a lot of yeah that evens it out quite a yeah unemployment rate here is just a little slightly under the national average, but kind of in the ballpark. Household income is low, but I think you've got to also factor in the college jobs aren't for massive amounts of money.

So, yeah. Nobody that's delivering pizzas is, A, that's not their career path that they're going to be on eventually, and B, this is just to get me by. Yeah. If you're living on, you know, grub hub and student loans, that's a grub hubbing and student loans. Average median household income here is about $37,900. So it's about $20,000 under the national average here. A lot of the jobs are the college.

It's 26% educational jobs here. That's way, way above the average. Cost of living, $100, Hundred being regular average par here. It's 90. So it's not that that inexpensive. Eighty one for housing. So median home cost here. One hundred eighty eight thousand seven hundred dollars, which, you know, not the worst, not the best, but lower than normal.

So if we've convinced you, you need to be you need to be here. We have for you a special treat. The Morgantown, West Virginia real estate report. I don't know. it to be higher because there's a lot of college kids, but there's a shitload of rentals apparently, so that's why. Okay. It's lower. The market is saturated, but also in demand. It's in demand. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 720-square-foot little house. It's like a little house, though. Not a bad house for like a little old lady. I can see like a 75-year-old lady whose husband died sitting in there watching TV.

It would be good. $65,000. So, that's pretty reasonable. Not bad. Not bad. Found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,050 square feet. It's decent. It needs some updating.

You're not going to be impressed with the backsplash. It's a good size, though. It's a good size. It's got good bones. If you've got a couple of kids, this is a nice place. $138,900. Not awful. $138,900 is good. good and then let's say you know

you're doing very well for yourself you own all the mines you're the the i don't know you're the the dean of whatever the fuck yeah uh four bedroom five bath t-bowl for every b-hole and then hell yeah extra b-hole for parties their uh extra party b-Hull room. 5,645 square feet. Big ass house. And it's very like modern and nice. Backs up to a lake. The backyard is a big yard with a lake. All woods around you.

Private. Two and a half acres. Gorgeous. $1,199,000. $1.2 million. You're going to pay for it. But I that's that's like a it's like a the corleone compound yeah like tahoe it's it's crazy so much work to do that's a lot yeah you're getting a lot of trimming too going on well you mean every day you wake up and go yeah before you can get a 1.2 million dollar house

yeah but then once you get there you're really then you got oh boy you're gonna get a trimmer some weed whackers this is a lot so uh things to do in this town i found the yonder ville uh the yonder ville fest they call it the great big camp out it's at uh it's at marvin's mountaintop and it's this weekend right now if you're right now j June 10th to June 12th, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 2021. It's happening. Get your ass there. To Yonderville. Good luck finding it, though, because on their website, they're very specific about this. It says, nestled in the rolling hills of West Virginia, Marvin's Mountaintop, just a guy named Marvin who owns that shit, is a place of dreams.

Not where they come true, just of having them. We go here and wish we were somewhere else. We don't know. From diverse settings around the property to stunning sunsets, Marvin's will make you feel at ease. See below for directions to Yonderville. This is all capitalized, by the way. Do not follow GPS to Marvin's mountaintop. It'll take you to fucking new york it said the gps directions will take you down back roads unsuitable for most vehicles instead

print out the following directions so now it's 2003 and they're gonna map question and it's literally take this road west to exit four get Get off here. Once on exit, turn left onto this road. Go approximately 9.7 miles. Turn right at the old barn. How many? Left at the old Anderson place. Now I've got to watch the little white wheel tick on my fucking dashboard? If we got 9.7, fuck, how many miles did we go?

Shit, I forgot to reset it before we did this. Take a left on the depot well it's it's a lot man uh go oh boy turn left at the t onto greens run long hollow go about 0.3 miles then turn it this is crazy i'm not finding this 0.3 this is nuts so you can go there and if you're interested jimmy would you like to perform maybe you can go do a set of comedy. We can do that. It says performing. I'm interested in performing at Yonderville. Can I apply?

You most certainly can. And just anybody can. They have a list of bands here, and I've never heard of any of them at all. I'm not going to read them off because it'll take a while. But there's a lot of them including 23 odd cats okay that means they had about 23 cats when they were putting that together or they're all odd and there's there's 23 of them they're fucking nuts yeah oh uh there's a guy called dice man performing is andrew dice clay gonna be performing there he's just what's happening here

that sounds about right to be honest with you hey Maybe. Hey, look at you fucking people. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Jack and Jill went up the hill and they ended up in this fucking shithole. You know what I'm talking about? Oh. I showed up here because I thought the pronoun said West Vagina.

Where are they? Oh, yeah, no, we're not going to. So anyway, yeah, it's a bunch of bands i've never heard of i'm sure there's probably a couple that are people know but i don't know any of them so there we go moving on you can have there's different ticket options one is for a tent and you just get in a tent yeah one is for car camping where you can park your vehicle in rows and just sleep in your fucking car, apparently. You can camp directly in front or behind of your vehicle there.

Then they have something called primitive RV camping. Yeah. Primitive, I guess. It doesn't include electricity. That's where there's no hookups. Yeah, no hookups there. They must purchase. Premium RV camping means, I guess, you go 50 amps of electricity included.

And I guess you can maybe hook your shitter up. There's some late night snacks. All right. And then hilltop VIP camping. What is that? That's the best space, too, where you can see all the shitty bands performing. Yeah. You got that.

You got a good seat to see the Dice Man. Yeah. Hey, the Dice Man's going, everybody. Hickory dickory dock. Come on. Get to the top of the hill. Hickory dickory dock. This hill's got gotta have a top

oh all right so you uh it says uh you can easily park your car near your campsite pitch a tent throw up your hammock and watch the sunset in comfort when you get thirsty mosey on over to the vip lounge god or you can pick up some snacks yeah boy crime rate in this town what we're interested in obviously yeah i'm really interested in that festival i hope nobody goes to that god damn it we have to do another bonus episode one of these days of more small town festivals because i just i love talking about those and we don't have time in the top of the show i don't want to go a half hour of town so sorry uh property crime right about average in this town not too high and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course

assault the mountain rushmore of crime is just below average here okay typical college town you know that's kind of what they all are so that said let's talk about a murder because all right why not you know what i mean let's get this rig rolling. I'm strapped in, James. I'm buckled. Let's do this. Virginia, this is going to get wild. Let's talk about a guy named Frank Junior Bellotti. No.

Rather than the traditional Bellotti. That's not how it works. His middle name is Junior. So if we've learned anything, and if you haven't listened to Crime and Sports, which you should, there's one rule of Crime and Sports, and it's not to name your kid junior. And I understand if you have, you'd mean nothing by it. But we have found an inordinate number of our subjects in Crime and Sports are either juniors themselves or have named their kids juniors.

Like, ridiculous. It's like half. It's silly, the amount of it. It's beyond coincidence at this point. We thought it was funny for the first 50 episodes but after almost 300 we're like this is real this is crazy shit so anytime we see anybody with junior we're like uh-oh here we go sociopath behavior coming right up fair or not yeah so uh frank junior baladi twootti, two L's, two T's in Balotti. So we'll talk a little bit about him. At this point, he would be 37 years old.

So, you know, he's 37. He's got a family here that we'll talk about. And his job is not what you'd expect from him. Interesting guy this guy is here. Now, October the 9th,th 1982 it's morning time very early in the morning rose baladi who is frank's cousin she gets uh i believe she's a couple years older than him too she gets a call from frank that morning okay i mean nobody likes to get phone calls in the morning first of all i don't care for it. Yeah, I'm not awake yet. I'm not ready for things to happen.

But you especially don't want a phone call that makes you jump into action. That's the worst kind ever in the morning. Your heart's not ready for it yet. It's just not. You know what I mean? It starts, oh, God, what's going on? Your body needs some adjustment. Yeah.

The worst is when you miss your alarm clock and then you're woken up by your phone ringing at, I don't know, an hour after you're supposed to be awake. That's the most agitative. Yeah, the heart skips several beats. You're up then, though. Then you're awake. Oh, boy, are you? Yeah.

Like, I think Rose probably this morning was probably awoken pretty strongly here because gets a call from frank who's like i said her cousin in the morning and uh he said damnedest thing here i need your help if you would there cuz uh damnedest thing happened uh strangest thing in the world i seem to have a gunshot wound in my head just woke up just woke up i can't see out of one eye. Totally blind in my one eye. Covered in blood. Absolutely. I mean, I'm head to toe covered in blood. Slept right through it.

And I appear to be, hold on, it looks like I have a shotgun wound to my face. Oh my God. A shotgun. Shotgun wound to my face. That's a problem, Rose. If you could help me out with that. Oh, by the way, he said he can't see out of one eye and all that, like I said. So he goes around a little bit and then also says, oh, my goodness, my wife and my two daughters also appear to have been shot.

They're dead, though. They're not alive like he is to make a phone call. Apparently, they are covered in blood and gunshot wounds and scattered throughout the home here, his wife and his two daughters. So it's a crazy scene that he awakens to here. And a crazy phone call, like I said. Crazy morning for Rose, I would say. The two of us have had a hell of a morning, Rose.

Yeah, Rose, I've had a bad year. I know your morning's been rough but i mean my head i can't even see so uh yeah he calls uh he calls rose and uh rose then calls his other cousin uh sam samuel james jim baladi okay so So Jimbalati comes over, which Jimbalati sounds like some sort of, uh, sounds like like a jazzercise thing. Yeah. Wednesday is jazzercise. And then Thursday is Jimbalati night.

And that's like some sort of tumbling class or something for seniors. Jimbalati special on, on some menu somewhere. Ooh. Trying to be cute. Yeah. I'll have the Jimbalati. Uh, yeah, I'll do that'll do that no no no capers though let's see yes i don't like the capers on that so you know what i'm not hearing a lot in in

uh what's happened so far is we've called the police what is the fuck is happening two phone calls have been made neither of which have be are either two for medical assistance or authority figures of any kind neither of which this is okay we're calling cousins i get you i get you wake up shot in the face and you don't maybe you're you're you know you're not in your right mind your whole family's dead maybe you pick up the phone you see what's my you know oh fuck i remember this number quick because that's my cousin or she's speed dial one or something and you call her and you go hey how you doing cuz i you know i'm shot in the face but then at that point why would she not go i'll call the fucking cops and ambulance for you the only reason i'd be talking to my cousins is if uh they accidentally called and i'm like i'm

just sitting here waiting for the police let Let me tell you about what happened today. I got a story for you now. Woo boy. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks

the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach

Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The official Jinks Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't even call my cousins on Christmas, Jinks. You mean you don't call them when your family's dead and you're shot in the face on a morning

how are they going to help more than the ambulance it's the other problem what a fucking bizarre chain of phone calls already strange instincts already but this is like it's a weird thing because it's we're we are in a very isolated area this is like it's just outside of morgantown very isolated hilltop house with nobody fucking around basically so it's like uh but the family isn't like they're not hill people they're not like the whites of west virginia or anything as we'll find out they're they they seem to have decent amounts of money they own a bunch of property they have you know they have like professions it's okay it's not figured it out but yeah still they're calling cousins when they're injured well yeah i mean it's still

west virginia let's be realistic here they still unless unless rose is the sheriff and the other cousin is the paramedics. Why are we calling them? They still shot at the Tennessee Valley Authority people back in the day. We don't want no electricity around here. Yeah. If it means you coming on my property, I don't need it. Fire and fucking rifle shots at him. So West Virginia has a history and I'm not. This isn't even a bash on West Virginia.

It has a history of being rebellious of a certain nature and people there there's a lot of uh some backwoods shit going on and that's kind of what's up here but he calls they call old jim belotti for assistance here now jim rather than going well i should probably call somebody right you know his thing is he at least he stops the chain of phone calls. I'll give him that. But he says, I'll be right over. I'll be what? No. And the cops who? Yeah. With the cops. I called the cops. I'll be there, too. That would be one thing. Like the cops are on their way and I'll be there also. Or the ambulance is on its way. I'll also be there. He just said, I'll go see what's going on here with old fucking Frank here.

I don't know what Frank's thinking. So I guess when he arrived there, Rose was already there and met Jim at the gate and said, all right, Jim, I got some filling in. I filled in some blanks. Remember I got on the phone. I told you just shot in the face. Family dead. That sounds like, you you know bad stuff somebody came in the house mowed everybody down shot him in the face so thought he was dead you know yeah but mission accomplished apparently she says um he shot everybody so that's what happened oh jesus there's a reason not to call. He shot his family, apparently. So that would be why he called me instead.

But you're shot. So rather than calling an ambulance, they go, let's take him to the hospital. What? He's shot in the face. I think at that point, they don't even call the police or the ambulance to say there's a dead family in there. Right. And I'll tell you how old the kids are and all that stuff in a minute. Like, there's two kids in this house.

And his wife, this is... Let's get him patched up before we deal with him. They're going nowhere. I mean, he says his head is bothering him something fierce. And I understand. Because his eyeball is hanging yonder. It's hanging toward Yonderville, toward Marvin's mountaintop. yonder it's hanging toward yonderville toward marvin's mountaintop the way it sounds like he got shot sounds like in the wild and wonderful whites of west virginia when

the dude describes how he got shot by his nephew and he's like then my eye was i pushed my eyeball back in and i then i i lifted situated my face yeah and opened it up so I could see out of my eyes. Like, oh, my God, you're the toughest man in the universe. So that's what this sounds like, though. Like his wounds sound. Nobody's ever put their face back on after being shot to handle the situation. That's the weird part is like I felt for my eyeball. Yeah.

And I stuck it back in the eye hole and I had to feel my skin flaps and wipe the blood away so I could form an eye socket with my skin. And then I told him, now you get off my property. Yeah. And then I finished the yard work, but then I went to the emergency room. I mean, I was almost done weed whacking. I wasn't going to leave it there. That's the most shocking part of that entire thing is that he's sitting there telling that story, then you're like who got you that guy got you he looks great he looks fine and he's talking about it like it was very matter of fact not even like it like you know like and then this

happened hold on give me one second he was just like some bitch shot me in the face i was like why'd you do that stuck my eyeball in it was like god damn it what's your fucking problem buddy maybe he wasn't shot though and he just tells people that because then you see him and you go, well, you look great. Because for a man that got shot, he looks outstanding. But as a normal guy that has not been shot. I'm not a handsome man. I'm not a great looking guy.

No, but with a guy who had to have half his face put back on. Yeah. That's remarkable. That's amazing. Look at you. You're a movie star. I'm not tell everybody that i used to i was shot once i was shot it was bad it was bad with a shotgun just i mean point blank

i didn't even look like this before it was weird just pick a picture of anybody and be like this is what i this is my old face this is what i used to look like a very handsome man. Uh-oh. A very handsome man and just be like, yeah, it was tragic, really. Just meet everybody. I am so sorry about my... You don't look that bad. Well, look, I used to look like this, but I was shot in the face. That's my modeling career. It was bad.

I mean, it was bad. It was really bad. It was so bad, I just had to eat more. I'm so sorry about this. Gained a couple of pounds, was bad. It was really bad. It was so bad. I just I had to eat more. I gained a couple of pounds, you know, and it's depressing. You know how it is, though. You just need to be nursed back to health. So they Rose and Jim take Frank to Monongalia General Hospital. Right.

Monongalia. Monongalia General Hospital. So who the fuck is this guy anyway let's frank junior baladi i think we need to know a little of his background of why he's shot in the face why his family's shot and why he's calling other people other than an ambulance in this situation so uh let's go back to 1958, where I actually saw a I found a newspaper article featuring him when he's 13 years old, which is which is pretty amazing. I'm going to show you here. I'll tilt it towards you. Let's see it. Here you go.

Oh, is that a car? What he got? Is that a deer in the fucking passenger seat? No, it's not. It's not a Tommy boy situation. No. What is that? It's a's not a Tommy Boy situation. No? What is that? It's a deer across a hood.

Oh, okay. He's a young, he's 13 years old, and there's like a, Jesus Christ, it looks like, what is that, a Buick maybe? A big-ass, giant, 50s Buick with a deer. It's an old-ass car, yeah. With a deer strewn, just strewn across the hood of this goddamn thing. He wasn't 13 driving the car and hit a deer he actually wasn't which is good thankfully he uh i don't know why this would be in the paper but

for some reason not a lot going on that day it says proud happy youth and there's him all proud next to a carcass which is a funny thing for a guy who just got pulled out of that situation that his first appearance in the press is next to something dead for shooting something did he shoot it he hunted it well it says here frank belotti jr he's he's the first one since otis nixon jimmy yeah first person we've ever frowned who's frank jr belotti jr jr oh my god so he could be jr jr if you just drop the frank he's a dub june Dub June. Junior squared. We've had this once in, oh, I think we're up to almost 500 episodes of podcasts of both of our shows.

We're this close to it. And we've had two people with the middle name Junior, and they're also a junior. That's impressive. I want his dad's middle name to not be Junior. And just like Otis, where they just are idiots. They just decided to name him that? They're just dumb. So it says he's at this time of 801 University Avenue, which is not out in the sticks.

So like his family is, you know, they're not like hill people here. They're not the whites. Ran all the way home from school yesterday for his father, who had been hunting all day, had promised to pick him up and take him deer hunting. So apparently dad didn't pick him up at school like he was supposed to and take him deer hunting, and so he ran all the way home looking for his dad. And it says Frank Jr. was in the woods about 20 minutes near Brown's Chapel when he downed a 200-pound doe on the first shot.

It was also his first deer that he ever killed, so he looks very thrilled about that. P.S. Frank Sr., who spent the entire day in the woods, had no luck. Dad got skunked, the little guy. Frank Sr. went out at sunrise, didn't pick his son up like a dick. Karma bit him in the ass. He got nothing. His son ran all the way there, got into the woods, was like, barely got his shit loaded and took down a fucking deer and then was like,

all right, peace out, Dad. I'm going to go home now. I'm going to throw this on your hood, cool? And they went hunting in a car. Who goes hunting in a fucking car? Just in a Buick. You drive that shit off into the woods and then you strap a deer to the hood to the hood i don't even know how he can see out of the

windshield the thing is huge across though you saw it it's like you thought it was in the passenger seat it's enormous it looked like they hit uh then i found okay so that's him at 13 then i found 1967 frank belotti okay and frank belotti in 1967 he's already gotten married and we'll get into his wife in a second and we won't get into her but we'll talk about her in a second here maybe we will yeah who knows uh he's uh he's driving a 1966 mercury and at 2 17 p.m a uh he and a 1964 gm truck operated by a guy a 40 year old man named carl uphold um ran into each other at the corner of high street and pleasant street some 225 dollars in damage was reported and how much were those cars more to come on that also because that's not that's not also the only thing that happened here but his wife carolyn uh he meets carolyn sue locatos as her name uh and she they

get married uh and i think 64 and so And so she's Carolyn Sue Bilotti. And I find her in a one-car accident as well here, which is, did he get on High Street? He got hit at the corner of, he got in an accident at the corner of High Street and Pleasant in 67. Then in 69, she got in an accident on Prairie Avenue between South High Street and University. So, like, that's pretty wild uh near there maybe i don't fucking know um she was cited for failing to keep her vehicle under under control which i guess in the in 1969 if a woman and a man got in an accident they'd be like i'll write this lady a couple of tickets because i'm sure i'm sure she was putting her goddamn makeup on or

having her period or something i I'll just ride her up. But a single car accident, James, that's certainly failing to keep your car under control. No, it is. It is. Because this is a 1969 Chevrolet she's driving. It's a brand new car, too. 69 and 69. She was driving, apparently went out of control and hit a utility pole.

Yeah. That's not good. Those Camaros are fast. Oh, boy. She just squealing out she's ripping i want to know what kind it was was a nova it doesn't even i can't find i couldn't find that it's hard just a 69 chevy yeah it's difficult i had 69 chevy i have it's the only you know piece of literature publication i could find on the subject i want it to be a badass camaro it was 5 38 p.m it was 975 dollars in damage which back then was like half the price of the car.

Right. Basically, she fucked that thing up good. And, oh, boy. Oh, there's another. That's not her. So and then there's another one here. This is for him. This is for Pilates accident here.

He apparently was appearing before the justice of the peace because apparently he was drunk during that accident. Oh, and he's it's a charge of driving under the influence of alcohol. And he he's fined fifty dollars given. He has to pay eight dollars in court costs. And you, sir, may fuck off. Had his license revoked for six months as well. So that's steep. He's got a steep one he might

have that might not be in his first run around probably maybe you never know and he caused damage while behind the wheel and that they take that shit pretty serious even in west virginia that's yeah so if you hit somebody i found they do have their shit together this couple though i found the birth announcement of their first daughter in the newspaper so they had their shit together enough to like you know put an ad and put a thing in the newspaper yeah yes i mean you have to people who don't care at all don't do that so that's something it's their first child and they uh it's the birth of their first child andrea joe and um they end up having two daughters they have andrea joe and then they have francy two years later. That's their second daughter.

So, yeah, by 82, they are 16 and 14 years old by that night we talked about. Yeah, 16 and 14. So apparently I found another thing here where Frank likes to – he's a little rebellious. We'll put it that way. I found a bunch of things where he fights a ticket to the point where it's in the newspaper because he just won't give in. It's fucking interesting, apparently. They made a street, a one-way street. They just changed it over and rezoned it a one-way street.

So the cops were giving everyone a ticket who was going on it. They didn't know, though, a lot of the people. So apparently it says Mrs. Frank Bil you know they didn't know though a lot of the people so apparently it says mrs frank belotti she doesn't even have a name and her husband were on their way to a business a concrete business monday morning when they failed to notice the new sign and automatically turned down the one-way street they'd been here before and they just went the route they normally go on so uh this is this is carolyn's statement two cars were stopped on the street in front of us we were told by a policewoman to proceed like the cars before us we were given tickets by a second police officer in the street for going the wrong way in a one-way street

so she's saying that she got a ticket for following an officer's directions oh a cop told me to go this way and then you give me a ticket yeah yeah. Yeah. So then she says, quote, my husband asked the policeman if he couldn't give him a warning ticket. But we were given a ticket and told to appear before these before Stanley Solomon for a hearing there. Then she says, why weren't the cops at the top of the street informing people of the change? It was an innocent mistake on our part. The sign is very deceiving. Way out in the middle of the island at the end of the street. They're not going to do this.

They're not going. They're not doing this for the people. They're doing this to get money for the town of Osage. It's another town. And people are lining up wrong way on that street unwittingly like a bunch of sheep waiting for a cop to give them a ticket. OK. To the slaughter with you. So, yeah yeah they were she said quote we were going to order nine yards of cement from mr morris but we

turned around and left so she's saying you're screwing up commerce by making people not want to go there we're going to buy local and you're giving us shit god damn it and this guy says he points out that his customers now have to go up the road and one or two miles around and through the whole town apparently that was the only road to his shop now they have to go all the way around the back way and um yeah he's pissed off this guy who got this shit changed because that guy should have a oh he should have a talk with them yeah so he ends up going all the way to this where there's a headline traffic hearing was not held bond forfeited he had taken this all the way to this where there's a headline. Traffic hearing was not held.

Bond forfeited. He had taken this all the way. Talk to the press and all this shit. And he forfeited his $20 bond. That's what he did here. He said, fuck it. I give up. He finally gave up and said, screw it, which is hilarious.

Then I found some. They did some business and property things that I found as well here. Apparently, they he got approved to change an old church into a flower shop. He had to put that through the town. And after that, he's a florist. He's always listed as being a florist. Frank is Frank is. So from like 76 to 82, he's a florist who has his own flower shop

that's great i mean he's a business owner but yeah it's just a strange business yeah it's not a strange but it's strange for him i just you don't expect this guy who's you know i just saw him in the paper next to a carcass and he's like i'll arrange those flowers lovely for you you know what i understand you're grieving over your dead grandmother i'm gonna put together the most beautiful she would have loved this honestly maybe that was the first time he built a wreath for uh for something dead you know he made a salt lick wreath for for its mom he was happy in that picture but then he grieved yeah and he was like you know what i'm gonna make an arrangement i just don't feel right he made a little memorial out there like when somebody dies on the street

and somebody gets in a car accident there's a makeshift right just put some stuff out there he's i'm gonna he's clipping flowers and he goes hey i'm pretty fucking good at this natural talent you know what i mean all right um another time here apparently they also have some income from properties as well. Okay. So they have a bunch of property. And I saw when Frank senior died in the mid sixties, I saw a big property transfer to, to Rose and Frank Pilati.

Rose is also his mother's name. He has a cousin named Rose and a mother named Rose. I assume the cousin's named after his mother, but's probably his sister's, you know, whatever. I bet the mothers are sisters and that's what you get. So there you go. Better be. Yeah. Anyway, they ended up they put in a request to the town to feed the effluent.

I guess that's shit water. Effluent. Not from 20 units in a trailer park into the city sewer system. The effluent, I guess that's shit water. Effluent, not effluent. From 20 units in a trailer park into the city sewer system. Yeah. So we want to dump our trailer shit in with all everybody else's trailer shit. Is that all right with you? They are asking permission to feed the effluent from the trailer park into the city sewer system and said they will build and maintain the sewer from the park.

So they'll build it to the sewer system they'll get it there i'm not asking for help with that but uh they need it they need permission yeah apparently they gave them permission to do that so where does it where does it go right now that's what i was wondering is maybe a septic tank like a giant septic tank or something and they're like this is unsustainable with 20 units right that's a lot of shit going on there's a lot of shit in the pool with it yeah we're gonna go have to back to the days of the shit buckets right of uh phillips oklahoma there that was the greatest one of that that map i don't know the map of the house and it says it says bucket out there that's where they went to the bathroom on the porch that was wild so anyway they end up doing that so they have they own a trailer park that has 20 units so that's that's income so they have a lot rent every month they have property also their property has like another property on it it's a there's some stuff going on but they live

outside of town on a mountain a newspaper will will call it, quote, an isolated hilltop home in West Virginia. So that, like I said, shooting at the Tennessee Valley Authority got consarned it. You know what I mean? So apparently the last couple of years he has been he's turned into a bit of a I i don't want to say a survivalist because he's not that's kind of a hobby that people have unless they take it to an extreme right it's almost like a hobby like hey i'm collecting end of the world shit you know like hey look at all my cans you know what i mean it's a it's a weird hobby people have and then some people go way crazy with it obviously yeah they like go to the surplus store and get all kinds of military shit

yeah they get those are the nutty ones or they go like christopher walk and blast from the past underground shelter you know like that one in vegas that we looked at remember i showed you the pictures that had like the it's a the guy built an underground bomb shelter in vegas in like the 50s and it's like a giant it's like 3 000 square feet down there like this crazy it looks like outside basically it's just like blast from the past but he actually built it it's crazy i've heard of guys burying buses too and shit oh they do that a lot in those that's kind of the that's that's really nuts that's what they how they uh they do drug trafficking in a lot of places i saw too they'll have like giant uh grow operations

like in south america and places like that that are underground in this in a series of buses that have been all designed to so it's super long yeah there's long they have hallways it's like a whole system down there of like all these hallways and it's all these buses that are buried they do that so they do it so it's an interesting thing uh but here he was telling people some weird shit um he he said that uh he was apparently arming himself here and uh stockpiling weapons and um other things that we'll get into here because he was worried of some sort of invasion up the hilltop or down from onto the down onto the hilltop from above, from above, either or. He's afraid of both. He's afraid of people coming for him.

He's also afraid of possibly possibly being visited by aliens and having them kill his whole family. So he's worried about both these things for a while here. Apparently, they said in the newspaper, it said that his home, he turned it into basically an armed camp with stacks of weapons in each room by windows strategically like stacks, like rifles stacked up. And like, that's not how you store those. No, no, that way is for quick distribution i don't know who well he's got there's four people in the house he's got like yeah he's got like 50 guns around for defense i don't know who he's thinking is going to use all these guns yeah i don't know how many guns he thinks his 14 year old daughter's going to wield at one time but probably not that many that might be the smarter move rather than just buying a bunch of magazines and loading them all

own a bunch of guns that are already all loaded and then you don't have to worry about changing max shoot them off throw the gun to the side pick up another one fired off it's really an odd strategy right that's very bruce willis i that better. It's the weirdest home defense strategy I've ever heard. You think you get a few guns and stockpile ammunition. It's funny. In World War II, we didn't give our guys, here's 60 guns. Get out there and battle. Here's a gun and a bunch of bullets.

Here's 60 guns all loaded to the T. All right, go ahead. Just throw it on the ground when you finish. Don't worry about all these slings over your shoulders. Yeah, just carry them. I know it's going to be heavy, but you're going to want those extra guns. I'm telling you, you're going to need them. So, yeah, he's got stockpiled weapons, like even in his daughter's rooms.

He's got them like stocked by the door. All of this shit. um all of this shit he is he basically turned his home into a fortress uh complete with a you know gas masks set up on pegs uh ones that were stenciled mommy and daddy on you know those are mom's gas mask and dad's gas mask this is your little pink one for francy there you go sweetheart she loves pink so i got her a nice pink gas mask so she won't be so afraid of it. I'll get you one when you outgrow that one, too. Yeah. So he's prepared for anything.

Invasions from above or below, including chemical attacks, apparently. I don't know. I don't know what made him think that West Virginia, Morgantown, West Virginia is a major site for a chemical attack. I don't know what, you know. That's where the battle's really going to get heated and kick off. I mean, I get that it's the 80s, it's the Cold War. He's thinking the Russians. I know what targets are going to hit, and it's Morgantown first and foremost, god damn it.

I mean, they're going to go after New York and L.A. eventually. I think it'll start elsewhere and you will have time to go get yourself a gas mask yeah it's all shit no what are they doing all right they'll get here eventually yeah this is uh so yeah so he's got some he's being a little weird you know but still operating still doing everything he's not like sitting in his house with the gas mask on and the rifle cocked sitting by the window all the time. He's just this is like his thing that he does also like got some more guns. OK, sure.

So the first week of October 1982, he's seen by a few people because this happened October the night of October 8th and into the morning of the 9th. So one man is Jeff Nichols is one of these guys. He delivered a load of firewood to the Bilotti residence on October 7th. And he said that Frank was normal at the time.

He was doing fine. Didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary. Another woman, Janet Hertig, who was an employee at Nature's Garden, which was a greenhouse that he owned, that Frank owned. So now he had a flower shop and a greenhouse, too. So he's growing them and selling them. Yeah, he's got it nailed. I mean, if you don't have to buy it from someone.

That's great. No supplier? Fuck suppliers. I can get it on my own. I can do it on my own. I can do it on my own. This is great. This is like having a field of weed at your disposal and selling weed. It's wonderful. And a dispensary. And a dispensary. So he's got that.

She said that she thought he was in a bad mood when he didn't care because Carolyn worked there, too. And so on October 8th, that evening, he came to pick Carolyn up from the greenhouse. And Janet said that Frank didn't say hello to her. So she thought he was just in a bad mood, though. He was grumpy. She didn't know if maybe they were fighting him and Carolyn or whatever, you know, people are. He was just like grumpy, like, yeah, I'm picking her up. Fuck off.

So whatever ended up happening. Yeah, she thought he was a little bit weird there. Now, Bethann Finley, she's a woman who rents part of the house, part of a house from Frank, not the house they live in or anything like that, but another house. He's got a bunch of properties. Maybe it's one of those trailers with the city shitter now. So we don't know. We're shitting with the city shitter now so we don't know we're shitting with the city

now yeah um so she said that she didn't notice anything different or strange or anything like that and she saw him on like successive days before all this happened so everybody says he seems if anything maybe a bit grumpy but not you know if every time i was a bit grumpy people assumed i was going to have some kind of meltdown and shoot people honestly you know we'd never get anywhere anywhere i'd constantly every time there was a greasy bun or ah jesus christ yeah anything unacceptable like that all right i'm easygoing except for a few things that That's it. I don't want my hands to be greasy. That I can't take. And I don't mean greasy like car grease or like dirt or filth. I don't mind dirt or filth.

That's great. You know, that's all good. Grease from like a hamburger. I don't want that on my hands or face. I don't want mayonnaise anywhere near my food. That's another thing that I can't handle. And when I fucking schedule a show six months in advance, I'd like to do the

goddamn fucking show and tell everybody else to not leave it alone so all my goddamn work doesn't go for nothing sorry so uh october 8th 1982 comes around though and uh at this point frank is uh i mean why not he's got a greenhouse and he's a florist he's a daily weed daily weed smoker so he's a mountaintop weed smoking fucking good time having fella at this point uh except for the gas masks and the weaponry he he probably i don't know if he grows weed in the greenhouses or what but i mean if you're if you're in west virginia and you're not you've you've blown it if you're a daily smoker and you have a green like if i had a greenhouse at any point in my life there's no possible way i wouldn't be growing some weed in there there's just not a possible way it's gonna happen uh he's also during this time right up to

in this week taking amphetamines prescribed for weight loss. Oh. Which we don't know what they are, but in 1982, they just give you speed for weight loss. Like, you could get speed over the counter for weight loss, basically, back then. So, something prescribed has got to be, like, you know, heart exploding. It's basically meth, and they give you a pipe. What? No, that's probably what it is here's a meth and a pipe and uh yeah here's some brillo pad for you you can stick that in there use it as a screen like they're giving you with this it came it was a pill that came with a razor blade and a straw that's what it was and the back of

a toilet bowl right that's the other thing the The back of a toilet. In true wild and wonderful whites of West Virginia fashion, that's where you snort your shit from. The back of a toilet bowl. It's the best place. Where else would you do it, Jimmy? Didn't they snort it and then rub their fingers on it and put it in their mouth? Fuck yeah, they did. They were all over that shit. That is so gross.

They were hovering over it. and this was not a nice bathroom it's not like they went to a five-star hotel and used the lobby bathroom this was this was a stall with piss on the walls of the ladies room yeah piss if you're lucky yeah this was a this was a bar that was that allowed men to play slot machines while not wearing a shirt. Right. Think about that. They don't even have a policy. When's the last time you went to a bar that allowed a man with no shirt to just hang out?

And when's the last time you saw a casino where people were allowed to gamble shirtless? It's never happened. And where the band, in between sets of songs, comments on the patrons and the girls that they fucked. Yeah. Whoa, look at you, honey. Yeah, Sue Bob. They're going, Sue Bob with the titties. Oh, yeah, with them titties.

I was like, whoa, this is fucking weird. Shit's getting weird, man. What a place. What an interesting place. So this isn't quite that, though. This M place so this isn't quite that though this morgantown isn't quite that but up in the hills here it's a different story so he apparently for three days prior to october 8th he hasn't slept frank he's been smoking weed doing amphetamines that were prescribed for weight loss hell yeah freaking out about possible

attacks on the compound uh making floral arrangements picking up rent uh checking on plants on a greenhouse and not sleeping at night at all in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell she insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more.

Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery+. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. He said that he was basically plagued by a persistent sense of paranoia. He was very paranoid about everything. So everybody's an enemy right now to him. It's interesting.

So apparently he returns home on October 8th after he picked up his wife and he said that he rolled up a joint and him and his wife uh smoked some weed fucking hung out they smoked a joint together kick back on the porch which that's nice that's a nice after work thing to do bad day yeah there you go and then he said after that, this is his quote. I couldn't make this up, Jimmy. This is only a small town murder suspect would do this. His quote is, quote, the intensity of my feelings intensified. So he heard the word intense and he's like, that's that's the thing that I feel.

I can't I couldn't describe it, but I heard intense. I could feel that word and i'm like yeah and then that's the only word he used because he didn't bother to think find any synonyms at all so the intensity of my feelings intensified that's what they tend to do buddy what are you talking about sir jesus christ man i extremely wanted to do extreme things uh you know what i'm saying stupid is a stupid does brother and that's all there is to it the intensity of my feelings intensified great so he said he was nervous and paranoid and when uh wow this is this is wild once his intensity of his feelings is intensifying he says that quote a great light about the size of a flame i don't know what that means because

flames come in all different sizes yeah i've seen flames that are the size of a house and an explosion and then i have my lighter here that has this flame. Those are both flames, so I don't know. But about the size of a flame came, Jesus Christ, imagine him saying it, came shimmering down off the wall and lit right on our hands and sat there. That's what he said.

That's his quote. Quote, a great light about the size of a flame came a shimmering down the wall and lit right on our hands and sat there okay that's his claim now at that point so both of our hands we both got a light are apparently both of their hands i don't just on their hands i don't know it came shimmering down and lit right on our hands and sat there i don't know what this light is. A great light. It's intense.

It started in the ceiling because they're in the house. And then it went down the wall. I don't know what's going on. So at this point is Carolyn, because, I mean, she's got to be like, Jesus fucking Christ. I put up with the rifles and the gas masks and, you know, I did all this shit. But great lights on my hands now this is enough with this fucking guy you know like seriously oh my god jesus now he's smoking weed i thought it would calm him down instead it makes his intensity intensify yeah i can't win

here uh she says tell you what let's go up on the upstairs uh on the second floor of their house there's a deck that has a nice view so she says let's go outside let's go out on the second floor of their house, there's a deck that has a nice view. So she says, let's go outside. Let's go out on the deck upstairs and get some air. What do you say? That'll make you feel better. There's no great lights out there. I'm not taking him near a moon if he's freaking out about a great light in the house.

Oh, man, it's all full of great lights. The whole sky. Oh, Jesus. They're going to come down and get us. Put your gas mask on, sweetheart. There you go. Nope, that's the daddy one you get the mom that's one of yours there you go honey yeah so uh no great lights apparently there so they go to get some uh air when they're getting air he says that he passed out twice passed out cold was standing there with fire on his hands fire on his hands this is when they get up to the deck what got up there standing there oh that's pretty yeah oh

listen to that what kind of animal you think that is pow just out cold on the deck passed out whatever his intensity was so intense that he it intensified him down to the deck. Yeah. He was intensely passed out on the deck after that. So he passes out, gets back up. I don't know what happened there. Oh, wow, that sounds like a fox. I don't know what that is. And then a couple minutes later, out cold again. Just boom, down, man down.

Yeah, and Carolyn's like, Jesus fucking Christ. What the hell with this guy? This fucking guy. This fucking guy. Would he just go inside at this point and close the door? He might. Go into bed. So once he regains his consciousness the second time around,

he said at that point he describes himself as, quote, in a frenzy, the most intense, quote, in a frenzy. The most intense form of intensity, a frenzy. He's so intense at this point, Jimmy. He described himself in a frenzy. And he said at that point, he picked up a.45 handgun that he had sitting around. Because he's got guns everywhere you know waiting for the invasion of course um so he picks up a 45 and uh that's that's what he did

he said he picked it up and he went in the bedroom to you know basically hole up and sit there with his 45 and wait for whatever's coming for him yeah now this is uh this is some seriously like uh delusional behavior like if he was doing amphetamines for three days and not sleeping this is the kind of behavior that people exhibit at that point you know they're gonna get me and you're you're hiding out and you know that sort of shit um so he ends up, he said, at some point he put the.45 down. Put it down and picked up a shotgun instead, a 12-gauge. So, well, that's not hell yeah yet. No, but that's the one you do for home defense.

The house defender. Yeah, that's the hallway sweeper. Yeah. They call that the Roomba. Yeah, they call that the Roomba. The loud Roomba to sweep your hallway, buddy. It's going to make dust, too. That's right.

It's going to make some dust, sweep that shit right on up after it. So according to him, he said that he locked himself in the bedroom, put the.45 down, at some point picked up a 12-gauge shotgun, and then he says that he started firing the shotgun. He says, quote, at an enemy of some kind. Because he had been invaded at that point, he said. He knows it's here. He knows it's here, and he was firing at the enemy of some kind, but it's sort of a, it's a mystical light energy. So, I mean, it's hard to describe it. So, you know, it's difficult. And it's a little flying, you know, so this happened between 10 PM and 2 AM on this night.

This occurs in the upstairs hallway of the family home. So he's not in his bedroom, locked in the bedroom, even though that's what he says. He remembers instead he backed Carolyn and Andrea, his wife and his 16-year-old daughter. He backs them up against the hallway wall opposite the master bedroom and shoots them multiple times. Wow. He backed them up against a wall, Jimmy, like this St. Valentine's Day fucking massacre. That is horrific. By dad. dad by dad that's what i mean think about that they must have been saying what are you doing stop we're not fucking invading like

you've i don't know what's going on but the the horror that you must be thinking of like carolyn probably knows a little more about it like not that she expects this but i mean she's probably like oh fuck he's because any crazy thoughts the guy's gonna have he's probably gonna tell i'm sure he's told his wife some weird shit like he told her about the light and all that shit he's passing out and all that stuff so carolyn's like this guy's weird but the daughter probably doesn't have any idea that it's this serious because you try to hide that shit from your kids obviously you don't want yes daddy is fucking cuckoo crazy for coco puffs insane he's out of his fucking mind absolutely don't go near your father kids like you don't want to certainly got questions though and uh yeah 16 this is yeah very scary 16 you notice when dad's being weird you know like that's a

you're not gonna let that slide when dad's being all you know like that's a you're not gonna let that slide when dad's being all the why are their rifles stacked up near my bedroom window is a question you'd ask why do i have a fucking gas mask with flowers on it why is why was this on my pillow today when i got home it's weird stuff so uh he backs up like said, his wife and his eldest daughter against a hallway wall and shoots them multiple times. Both of them. So that's I can't even I don't even know how you do that. Like how crazed you have to be. And then Francie, the 14 year old.

The theory is she heard this going on. Yeah. And fucking took off because clearly there's no reasoning with dad because they probably tried to reason with dad and so she took off and started running down the hallway away from the situation and he shot her in the back he shot his 14 year old daughter in the back as she tried to run away from him. That is... Extra, yeah. That's one of the...

I say it a lot, but it's always true when I say it. That's one of the worst fucking things you could possibly do. To say, you know, you can't shoot people in the back, number one. Even if someone breaks in your house, once they start running away from you outside the house, you're not allowed to shoot them anymore. Once it's in the back, then it's murder. Like, to shoot your 14-year-old running in terror from you, number one, should wake you up to go, oh, my God, I'm a monster.

But instead you go, can't let her get away, and shoot her in the back with a fucking 12-gauge down your hallway. That is beyond disturbing. I don't even know what the fuck to say about that that's beyond disturbing so that's what he does um they all um uh you know they're all three of them are dead so it's two shots each for andrea and carolyn and then francy one in the back just the one just the one in the back oh dear lord i? Just the one in the back. Oh, dear Lord. I hope she was knocked out. That's just so much.

Yeah, it was close range, so hopefully it was quick. That's all we can possibly hope for. No, that's the thing. So that's awful. So yeah, I don't even want to know about the autopsy. Luckily, I couldn't get autopsy reports on this one or anything like that because I don't want to know like, oh, she was probably alive for fucking 20 minutes or something like that. I want to hear that.

So after this shoots his wife and his two children, he decides he goes on in the bedroom and decides, well, I guess that's it for me and takes a shotgun, turns it on himself and shoots himself in the head. And as far as he, turns it on himself, and shoots himself in the head. And as far as he knows, he's dead. He shoots himself in the head. He's not conscious anymore. And then the next morning, he wakes up covered in blood with a hell of a headache and can't see out of one eye. And calls up his cousin, calls up Rose. Rose calls up Jim. Jim comes over, meets Rose at the gate.

He says, she relays that story to Jim. Right. And Jim's like, whoa, what the fuck is happening? So they take him to there. Now Rose runs inside. Now the mother's involved, too too once they get to the hospital. The mother's there. She got in the phone tree at some point here.

I don't know who called her up rather than an ambulance. But they're already at the hospital. May as well call Rose. Might as well call Rose. Well, she, when everybody got there, she got there and ran inside to get medical personnel to assist her, to assist Frank. You know how you do that also? You get a phone and you call an ambulance and then they come to you. You don't have to run in a hospital and search for them.

They really got this whole thing backwards when you're talking about a gunshot wound to the head. If you're going to get mad at us for west virginia backwards uh as soon as they start not being backwards we'll we'll comply this is 100 backwards this behavior this is not what you do this is back ass words as an old man uncle of mine used to say so he uh jim and uh frank remained outside i'll just wait i'm gonna smoke me a cigarette before i go in your face is shot off you fucking idiot he shot his right eye out his right eye is gone he shot it out with a shotgun he's gonna sit and have a smoke he's just hanging outside the old ornament they don't let you smoke in there and pussy so i better finish my oxygen in there and it's flammable or some shit like that whatever

jesus christ i'm gonna finish this real quick is what i'm saying so he uh they're out there so jim's out there with his cousin frank yeah just a couple of guys smoking outside of an emergency room just just a couple of guys with three eyes between them hanging out oh man three eyes intense intensity and intenser those are the three eyes so uh anyway wow they remain outside at this point frank turns to jim and says this is a wild statement to make i have worried all my life that somebody was going to come up there and shoot us all with my own hands. I did a bum job on myself. I have ruined my life.

I have lost everything. So he, there's a pretty incriminating statement. So he said, I always just worried that they were going to come, something was going to come for me. So he made a similar statement to Dominic Carpini. It's a Dominic Carpini. There's so many Italians in this. There's a lot of Italians anywhere around coal mines.

Because when they got here, anyone who had no skills, they'd be like, well, coal mines are that way, motherfucker, as we told you. Sliding those holes real easy. They're good and greasy. Just stick them. Yeah, don't take it too wide just throw them down there they'll tell you if it's if he doesn't if he doesn't say he's hungry in a half hour it means he's dead down there that's how it works if he makes it we'll throw him like a couple of salted cure whatever those fucking people eat we'll just a couple of capicola or something i don't know we'll toss it down in the hall and he'll keep

working they keep working on a little bit you just give them a little bit of salted cured meats and they keep going it's wild throw them one of those tube meats throw them some shit in a goddamn natural skin case and i don't know something just put it down there one of the firm meats not a hot dog one of them firm meats you know what i'm talking about an italian take nibbles out of it something they hang from the ceilings in their little weird shops where they sell each other pork products i don't know what the hell them goddamn italians are doing anywhere around mines you get a lot of like there's a lot of hillbilly italians in this region they're just is that right absolutely there's a ton of them yeah it's a weird thing like uh that homicide book back to that again david simon one of the cops is like he's an

italian guy whose dad is a what was a west virginia coal miner and like he's a you know from that kind of like hillbilly west virginia stock and then he ended up in baltimore so it's it's one of those deals where there's a lot of us there we we went where shitty work was we weren't real no one was a real big fan of us coming over except like the one guy who sold a decent fucking meal on the whatever and then it was like well we don't need anyone else we got him that guy's a good barber that's enough joe dimaggio you're pushing pizza. That's a hell of a pizza? Yeah, that's a hell of a pizza. Crispy, saucy pie?

I'm not going to... So anyway, Dominic Carpini is a paramedic who transports him from the general hospital to West Virginia University Medical Center because he's shot in the face and all. Frank says at that point to Dominic Carini he says quote i think i killed them all you'd better send somebody out there right away i think they're all dead this guy had no idea just knows there's a guy with a gunshot wound he's just a paramedic trying to save the guy and he's like who that's like a who that's a statement yeah so the paramedic said, who's dead? What happened? Who'd you kill?

What'd you do? And Frank said, quote, my wife and daughters, I killed them all. You better send somebody out there. They're all dead. So that's some creepy shit to get. If you're a paramedic, you have no, you know, anything in there. So they the people treating him said they found him to be alert and responsive. He wasn't in shock or anything like that.

He loses his right eye as a, you know. All gone. From the gunshot wound. Gone. They're going to take it out. Oh, boy. Slap a patch on it, Chief. Let's get it moving.

A Cyclops forever is a tough look. It's tough, man. I don't know if he's got a glass eye or how he's going to play it, but just lift the flap. Options are limited. I mean, you can go glass eye, you can go eye patch over glass eye, or you can go hole in the head, eye patch, lift it up to scare kids, and then laugh afterwards maniacally like a psychopath. Those are the options, I believe, when you have a missing eye, right? I had a friend with two of them, James. Two glass eyes. That's called a blind

person. Yeah. It's called a blind man. Yeah, he's blind. Yeah. He tried to end it and somebody walked in when he did it and the gun moved and it just cleaned his eyes out. No. That's not good at all

and then he got two glass eyes after that shit that's the worst the bummer is that he didn't even know that they didn't look great well the on the on the bright side his family had an easier time hiding the guns from him after that so made it a lot harder for he'll never find those again he'll never try now never ever so there's that other than that holy shit that's always that's always the worst when someone's obviously depressed enough to try to end their life that's the worst anyway but then when they fail to do that there's the old joke of oh now i can't even do that right now that's like an old trope whatever but how about just not a joke of you made your life much worse now also you thought it sucked before how about no eyes now how do you feel you know now you're miserable you have a

shit job nobody loves you you're this and that your mom was mean to you when you're getting you know your wife left you or your husband left you. Your kids hate you. And right. Two glass eyes. Throw that in the mix. Not good. So anyway, they start looking into this. They send the authorities up there, send the police out there to take a peek of what's going on here. And they find Carolyn and Andrea and Francie in the house. here and they find carolyn and andrea and francy in the house and they were i have no idea how what the fuck caused this or why a person would do slaughter their family like this so um that's

that it takes them like six days to actually arrest him for the uh for the crime here i don't know why because he was in the hospital anyway he wasn't going anywhere with a gunshot wound to the head right so they could had time um but they listed him at that point in fair condition when they arrested him and uh so the judge at this point they bring him in he the judge will not set a bond for him he's got no he's on a no bond there he said it would be inappropriate to set a bond for him considering he is charged with murdering two children and his wife in cold blood. So it's a hard pitch to get out. You know, he's feeling better now. I know that was out.

Yeah. Yeah. I know that was a week ago that he was, quote, in a frenzy and shooting his children at close range, but much better. He's had a good night's sleep and a good meal. Yeah. He feels good. I have de-intensified yeah he's he's saying that he's less than intense right now as was his his quote so he's got to play it your your defense here is precarious because you can't say i didn't do it because he clearly fucking did it, obviously,

and he told everyone he did it, and his cousin tells the police what he told him, that he said that he did it, and the paramedic's like, yeah, he told me to go check up there and said there was three more dead people, so might want to do that. Says he killed his wife and kids,

so there's that. So they indict him on three counts of first-degree murder. He's got to go for insanity is the only way to play this. He's got to say that he was delusional and all this type of thing. So once he's arrested, he gets there's three psychiatrists that examine him. And in all three of their opinions, they say he did not appreciate the wrongfulness of his acts at the time of the shooting. appreciate the wrongfulness of his acts at the time of the shooting okay um however they all disagreed on a diagnosis of what the fuck is wrong with him which is pretty interesting so we all but we came to the same conclusion but we all got there in different ways right math

problem with the same answer in three different equations basically is how that works well you can get 75 a number of different ways right one of those so um they they talk about his drug use also they each they each come up with their own opinion so here let's get into it so shrink number one we'll say here shrink one shrink two shrink three shrink one dr melinda mullins she practices both internal medicine and psychiatry so that's like a regular doctor just an internist as you know your family doctor right and uh and a psychiatrist this is the two things she does so inside and out she's gonna fucking know you uh she was assigned to the psychiatric consultation service at west virginia university medical center she's the first of the doctors

uh to examine him and she interviewed him while he was recuperating from surgery. And she was supposed to assess him for suicidal thoughts or intent prior to being discharged from the hospital. That was her job. He did not recall the entire shooting incident with this doctor. He said he didn't quite remember it all. incident with this doctor. He said he didn't quite remember it all. And she didn't diagnose him at the time, but she raised several diagnostic possibilities after examining him, including atypical paranoid disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and because he claimed that he used drugs for diet purposes, delusional syndrome so she said he's got

all these fucking problems and then you throw in the amphetamines on top of it and he starts seeing lights and shit that's what happens so okay the doctor's diagnosis is basically he's a head case and then we put shit down him that makes it worse yeah exactly then he's taking you and then he's not sleeping and he's doing a bunch of shit that's making his brain not go. That's organic delusional syndrome. His brain is fucking up from natural reasons of not sleeping and shit. So shrink number two, Dr. Joel Allen, a psychiatrist at West Virginia University Medical Center. He saw Frank for a total of 16 hours over a nine month period. What? So, yeah, that's, you know know two hours a month not even that would be right 16 hours and that's and we're given a mess for nine months no this is his this is his the shrink here like okay yeah yeah um this is beginning in december 82 once he's recovering from surgery and all that shit. He diagnoses Frank as a

paranoid schizophrenic, which is... That's more like it. It's one of your big boys there, paranoid schizophrenic. Finding him to be delusional and a sufferer from pervasive paranoia. So there's that. Now, according to Dr. Allen,

Frank suffered from amnesia induced by the injury to the brain from the gunshot, which prevented him from remembering the night of the shooting. He also stated that it was common for people to forget bad things, even, quote, monstrous things. And he says that finally, after eight sessions with him, he regained his memory of the shooting so basically talked him into telling him about it after eight sessions sort of a deal um and he's saying that you can tell me all this and we'll file it under uh a sick sick man yeah you're very yeah i can help you and when you i was reading this book recently on the Hillside Stranglers, right? Bianchi and Bono.

And the funny part is, by the way, the book that we're going to do the bonus on and all that, the Ultimate Evil book, one of his theories was he was putting this all together in the beginning while the Hillside Stranglings were happening. And he thought in his mind, he said, oh, that's probably the guy who's helping david berkowitz here too he probably went out there and is doing the hillside stranglings as well as part of this big giant satanic cult rather than this is two idiots who are disgusting and want to do terrible things to women and strangle them so they don't tell on them right yeah but it's amazing man when you start and if one thing lined up in that conspiracy it was like that was everything you know that's what's fucked man when people want to believe something it's just the human brain it's not their fault when people want to

believe something if there's 20 points to a conspiracy and two of those points are true they're like well if two things are true then the rest has to be true which is so not the case and if two things are true then 18 might not be in that 18 completely disproves the first two so it's you can't and everybody everybody wants to be first with information where they're like yeah you haven't heard this what are you fucking what are you crazy you never heard this let me let me tell you all about this and everybody wants to guide it's a well you know it's a well whatever it's a good natured instinct that is it doesn't help any so right anyway he's a paranoid schizophrenic according to dr allen finding him to be delusional and also suffering from pervasive paranoia like i said might forget monstrous things blah blah blah so shrink number

three is dr wilbur sign and uh he had a psychiatric and family practice in morgantown he examines frank at the request of the state here so he's a appointed as well meeting with frank on five different occasions for a total of five and a half hours. So he's doing hour sessions with him. He said, quote, at the time he shot his wife and two daughters, I felt that he was in an acute psychotic state. So insane at that point. He said that he believed the paranoia began as many as four days before the shootings and was induced by his use of drugs and lack of sleep.

So the paranoia started. And because of that, he, and for lack of a better term, intensified it with drugs and lack of sleep. So that's what the intense keeps coming up. So he said that during the examination, Baladi said, you know, at this point, he's not talking about amphetamines prescribed for weight loss. Baladi told him that he, quote, snorted some crank for the entire four days before the shooting and stayed awake. Oh, my God. He's on a four-day crank binge.

Of not sleeping. Oh, Jesus. So, come on. You know what I'm saying? That's, that's crazy. Um, he didn't share that with the other two psychiatrists though. He only told this guy. Um, another thing here, uh, later on when asked about it, uh, Dr.

Sign, they asked him what could trigger an acute psychotic state, uh, in a person with a personality disorder. Dr. Sign said that it could have been his use of crystal and methamphetamine. He said, quote, that he that he didn't, quote, believe you can make the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia in the face of drug usage. So that's why he didn't call him a paranoid schizophrenic. He said the drugs clouded all that.

So they said the state later on will say quote we have a person who has a little personality disorder and is going through life managing to cope with things and in effect he got high on he got high on amphetamines and lost his temper is that true and the doctor said that's a good summary of it basically yes they were like so let me get this straight crazy fuck yeah he's fucking nuts and he does a bunch of crank he's fucking cranking himself up on crystal meth and then he gets pissed off and kills his family right i mean is that what the medical translation of that is and he goes that's a good summary of it basically yes that's fucking hilarious think you got it

covered chief um oh one thing i didn't tell you though and this is what he also told all three psychiatrists at the time was not only was he delusional but his delusions were very specific he thought that his wife and his two daughters were actually aliens that had come to kill him he thought they were aliens who had tried to take the form of his wife and daughters to fool him into abduction and... Now we're talking. You know, whatever, the whole anal probes and whatever they do to you up there.

Either way, though, he said they weren't going to take me alive, goddammit. I fucking took them out, and they tried to act like they were my daughters, and I was like, ain't fooling me, buddy they're meat moop it ain't happening but that's i call them all meat moop that's my like it's a racist alien name because fuck them you know what i'm saying i don't give a shit so i'm like what up meat moop i ain't taking that shit and i shot him right in the back while he tried to run for me i've seen every scary movie ever where things

can shape shift and they always i mean always always shift into your wife or your daughters every time they're like it's all right sweetie no honey give me the gun and then all of a sudden like their hand turns green and fucking claw drives grabs out and they try to pull your heart out and the only thing you can do is shoot them under the chin every damn time that's every damn time so that's that's his excuse is my family actually at the time it turned into aliens so what's a guy supposed to do here i mean oh boy what do you think all the again like biggie what you think all the guns is for you know what i'm saying yeah that's what he's saying like i've been waiting for this fucking day for years. And it finally happened. Finally got my due.

Go time, baby. And I don't think those fuckers are coming back here anytime soon. Well, if you mean your kids and your wife, correct. Correct, sir. So the judge turned down a request to move the trial out of this county he said this is i mean once they hear about mountaintop shotgunnings based on alien misidentifications it becomes right word gets around you know what i mean it's a we can call the jury pool tainted your honor a bit tainted really if you think about it um so uh they said no though they won't do that the judge told his

attorneys that they'd be given an adequate chance to reject potential jurors that they feel might be prejudiced against his client and he also said he didn't feel that frank could receive a more trail fair trial anywhere in the state this is the fairest fucking place in the state i don't want to hear your bullshit is what literally what he. There's no place. What are you saying? Places are more fair than this? Hey, Tommy, he said over there they're more fair than we are over here. Hey, let's kick his fucking ass.

You're telling me you think all the people in this town have heard of this because there was aliens and you shotgun your kids and your wife and if you think that the people in this town are keeping that information to themselves you're out of your fucking mind sir everybody's heard of this just there ain't no fair place that shit's getting spread that's gonna spread like fucking disease so he uh yeah

they then filed the change of venue request on the and they said no uh so i love how it says in the paper blotty a formal florist is accused of the shotgun slayings of his wife and two teenage daughters last October. Jesus Christ. That is a wild sentence. That's why it's weird. A man that's a florist is the sweetest man on earth. Shotgunning his family to death is not the next. That's not the Mad Lib most people would fill in there.

That man owns several cardigans and then shotgunned his family. He's a florist who shotgunned his family. What? So during the trial, the state calls Betty Maddatz, who had known the Bilates for 12 years, and is their self-described best friend she describes herself as their best friend yeah or as they described her the chick who you turn the lights off when you think she might be swinging by to make sure that she doesn't think you're home so you don't have to see her again one of those two things i'm not sure you know oh jesus betty's fuck just turn the lights off turn the lights off turn

the lights off don't pick up the phone she's the real estate agent in beetlejuice that's exactly what kid shut the kid shut up shut up jesus christ so she knew them uh she said that she had gone shopping with the baladi family the whole family and and her went shopping on october 2nd 1982 so that's six days earlier she said she didn't remember frank saying anything that day that was indicative of paranoid characteristics not at the piggly wiggly anyway right you know they were over there at charlotte ruse he wasn't saying anything crazy about aliens it was fine really i mean honestly we went on over there and uh we went to the mall he even went Chess King, got himself a nice pair of 82 jeans, and he was just as happy as a clam. So on cross-examination, though, they asked her whether she knew that he was paranoid sometimes.

Because that was what the prosecution said. Was he paranoid on the second? She was like, nope. Well, there you go. That's all we need out of her. prosecution said like he was he paranoid on the second she was like nope well there you go that's all we need out of her and the defense said yeah but uh do you do you know him as a paranoid person and she said quote i would say it sometimes he is yes so there you go i mean he's a he's got gas masks and rifles stacked and he's paranoid every day let's be honest and it's 82 like it's just it's not the 50s it's not post

post 9-11 it's not any of those two times when people lost their fucking minds and started building bomb shelters it's then so he testified as on his own behalf but his testimony is i shot my wife and fucking daughters i thought they were aliens as you know that's a either believe him or you don't but either way you know he did it. So it's tough for jurors to go, not guilty. Tough sell. Tough sell. The verdict on three counts of murder.

They did four hours of deliberation. That's a long time. Yeah, three murders, though. You've got to fill out paperwork three times. Hour 20 apiece. Yeah, first degree is tough. This is on December 21, 1983. They finally come in with the verdict of, big shocker here, guilty of three counts of first degree murder.

All three. So they didn't buy the insanity thing. Not a bit of it. Not a bit of it. Just first degree murder. Nothing. So now sentencing comes up, and this is a hilarious move. And attorneys do this all the time.

It's procedural, but it's just hilarious when they do it, okay? He's just been convicted of three first-degree murders. He's just here to be sentenced. So what does the defense do? They make a motion for a new trial. Your Honor, I'm not thrilled with the outcome of what we did here the last. I just, you know what I mean? I don't think it worked out well, and I think we should just have a do-over, right?

Everybody okay with that? I think it was a good- And if I have my way, Your Honor, I believe we should redo this over and over until I win. We had a good dry run. It was like we blocked it in rehearsal. It was a good practice. I know where I we blocked it in rehearsal. Is it good practice? I know where I'm sitting. He knows where he's sitting.

You're up there. You know what I mean? Wait, sentencing? You mean we started already? Shit, I didn't. Oh, shit. Jesus. I thought we was practicing.

So he is, yeah, and the judge says, are you fucking kidding me? No, of course we're not doing that, you idiots. No. Yeah. No, sentencing coming down. So the jury, by the way, comes through. Now, what they do is basically he's going to get life in prison. Okay?

That's the first-degree murder automatic is life in prison. But he can either have, if the jury recommends mercy, then it's, he can have a chance of parole. Whereas if the jury makes the sentencing recommendation quote without mercy, that means it's life without possibility of parole. Okay. So the jury, you know, not in West Virginia at this time. So the jury's basically given a thumbs up, thumbs down type of deal to him, right? That's all it is. This is fun. Yeah, it's interesting. So they come back with, you, sir, they have no mercy.

They show him no mercy. And he receives, you, sir, may fuck off a life in prison without the possibility of parole is where he goes. So he is shipped off to west virginia state prison obviously and um it's at this point where a bunch of shit comes up about his properties and uh this is pretty wild october 8th was the murder okay uh he did some interesting property dealings on nove 15th, 82. So a month later, listen to what he did, okay? Which cousins got him.

Okay, this is the fun part. He owns two pieces of real estate as a joint tenant with the right of survivorship with his wife, Carolyn. So she dies, it's his, basically. But he murdered her and was convicted of these murders, so then he can't have that. He can't have that. He can't inherit anything of her side because whatever. So he instead signed over his properties to his mother, Rose Bellotti. And state law provides that no one convicted of killing another could acquire any property from that person killed, quote, by dissent and distribution or by will or otherwise.

So, you know, if I have a will saying you get all my shit and then you kill me, you don't get my shit anymore. That makes sense. You know, obviously, less motivation to expedite the process. We've made it illegal to murder people, but if we can convict them on that we got to change some rules on some other shit too yeah that's got it's got a real butterfly effect going on here it's gonna so carolyn's parents sue for the joint tenancy property they say they want it basically um so now this is funny because different laws happen at different times because back to, it's funny, Angelo Bon so that's what's interesting we'll talk about sometime but angelo bono did the same thing with his property the property uh that he had his house and his upholstery shop on yeah they killed all the women uh he gave that to the guy next door who owned a glass shop

next to him he just gave that to that guy that guy who owned a glass shop next to him. He just gave that to that guy. That guy leveled the house because nobody wanted to fucking rent it because a bunch of women died in there in a horrible fashion. So he just leveled the house. And when police went back to look over the house again, it was a fucking slab. It was a concrete slab. Oh, no. What the shit happened? And the guy's like, I fucking leveled the house.

So that was, you know, they should have paid probably more attention to that, I would say. While Bono was in jail, that happened. So anyway, Frank and Carolyn Balotti, this is three different parcels of real estate, like I said. On November 15th, he conveyed without consideration the two properties he held in joint tenancy, not the one he held on his own, but the two that they held together, to his mother, Roseanne Bellotti. Okay? So then January 11, 1990 comes around. So, you know, seven years after he's convicted, six and a half,

Roseanne Bellotti then conveys the two properties to a straw party Ellen F. Harner so that's Ellen F. Harner is basically like a corporation almost like an entity so she signs the properties over to Ellen F. Harner

now at the same time right after that Ellen F. Harner conveys the property to who? Frank J. Bellotti and Rose Bellotti by deed at that point. So she basically deeds the house to them in their back name. So they basically laundered the property. That's how they tried to do it. They went through a third party and tried to launder it and come it back up. It's all clean now. Now I can own it again because it went through a third party. tried to launder it and come it back up it's all clean now now i can own it again because it went through a third party then we reacquired it so it's not it's not like i got it inherited at that point wild but it's all it's all them it's all calculated

it's not there's no fucking this ellen f harner didn't actually want this property to keep for herself and then decided at some point to sell it to them. That's not how it worked. It was just all bullshitting around. So that's when this all comes up. It didn't come up at first. When he first gave it to his mom and all that shit, nobody said a word. Nobody noticed it until the parents realized it. Her parents, Carolyn's parents, realized it at some point.

Like, hey, we should have those properties. What the fuck is going on? Looked into it and found out how they did it. They went around. Yeah. Yeah. They went around it all like this. So the they have tons of, you know, tons of statutes on this.

The one one decision said, quote, It would be monstrous for the courts to lend their aid to anyone for the purpose of enriching himself by the commission of murder and to entertain suit on behalf of the beneficiary to recover upon this policy of insurance. Oh boy. Terrible. You can't have that. So, um, they,

uh, they go over all this. They, uh, finally they said that, uh, they filed. Okay.

This is confusing here. So they filed a complaint in the court seeking, this is her parents seeking partition of the three parcels of real estate, which were owned by Carolyn. The request for partition of the property as held as tenants in common was granted, and the court ordered the property be sold at public auction. So then they get half the money. The court denied the request for partition of the two parcels held in joint tenancy. And so then there's all sorts of appeals going on. It goes all the way to the Virginia Supreme Court.

Really? This property dispute here. And they conclude that they find the statute controls who takes the property. As Carolyn Bellotti's heirs, Andrew and Virginia Licatos, her parents, own the entire property. Rose Bellotti gets nothing. Virginia Lakatos, her parents, own the entire property. Rose Bellotti gets nothing. So they reverse the lower court's decision, which gave the Bellottis at least a part of it,

and then it would be sold at auction, and then they would get their part, and the parents would get their part. Instead, the higher court says, oh, no, no, no, no. You don't have to sell it at auction because it's all yours, family of Carolyn. Bellottis, go fuck yourselves. You can go ahead and list that if you don't love it. Yeah, there you go. Nicely done.

So he wants to appeal his case here. It's a capital case. The thing is, West Virginia is one of very, very, very few states, I think at the time there was maybe three or four, that a, on this type of murder, a first degree murder, there's not an automatic appeal. You, you don't just get an appeal. You know, you have to have a reason for it.

There's no like, wow. Just appeal on an appeal just to make sure, just to make sure that eyes are dotted. It's you got to have a reason. They assume they got it right. There is no court more fair than this and to prove it you ain't allowed to look over it when we're done that's it once it's done it's done because it's fair god damn it that's as fair as it gets that is something so um jesus christ man

it's crazy so they said that uh they basically, they, this went to the Supreme court at some point, but they basically said that the right to appeal on a heavy duty case is basically so accepted at this point by everybody that they don't need to make precedent with Supreme court law. So basically everybody's pretty normal. I mean, unless you're in like the back of woods of West Virginia or something, it's going to be great. Unless you're you know what I'm saying? That's basically what they said. We're not going to do that for like three weird places who want to be crazy.

So I mean, don't murder people in those weird places. But until then, until then, I mean, it's fine. I'm sure you'll still still get an appeal. It's it's just normal now. That's basically what it was, what it was. The one Justice Brennan concluded it was unlikely that a case presenting the question would ever arise, quote, for the very reason that a right of appeal is now universal for all significant criminal convictions. And they said all the states now provide some method of appeal from criminal convictions, recognizing the importance of an appellate review to correct adjudication of guilt or innocence, except if you're in fucking West Virginia.

That's the thing. And I'm not one for, you know, oh, let's clog up the appeals process, but let's make sure across the board. Obviously, in this case, it's a, you know, there's not really a lot of question of who done it. This wasn't a real head scratcher, but in some cases, this may come in goddamn handy. a real head scratcher but in some cases this may come in goddamn handy so um in west virginia a petition for appeal from the judgment of a lower court must be filled within eight months of that judgment the record on the petition may include the transcript of the proceedings as well as any

pleadings orderings or exhibits which will enable the supreme court to decide matters arising in the petition and oral presentation is limited to 10 minutes on this so you got 10 minutes to convince us make your case mother holy shit you get it's a panel of five judges that decide whether you get an appeal or not and they just they vote all five of us together we only have a 10 minute window go that's it busy people let's go move it along pitter patter clock's ticking let's go that's. They got a guy with a big hook on the side just waiting to go. So they said in order to ensure that criminal defendants are not effectively denied the right to utilize this appellate process and thus deny their right to due process and equal protection of the law. The court has held that the state cannot enact legislation favoring, quote, one class of indigent defendants over another class

of indigent defendants in criminal proceedings. In the enactment of statute, the legislature is presumed not to enact a statute which is violative of the Constitution. So basically, it's how much money you have. If you're poor and you kill somebody, it should be the same as if you're poor and you have drugs on you, is what they they're saying so that's what they're trying to say there he tries to appeal in 1985 they take it to the board and his attorney fleischer here uh makes the case and they get voted down three to two three to two no appeal go fuck yourself they say so um this happens a couple times fleischer goes back for a third attempt at an appeal on him they just keep going back yeah and argued a case that he faces a life sentence without the possibility of parole that should include an automatic appeal west virginia law

doesn't provide for that so basically she seems to seize a possible supreme court case that this could go all the way to the supreme court and we could make national precedence here. Make a big deal out of this. Make me very famous. And also, she's right. She's right at the same time. She argued that 48 other states have such a provision. 48.

Right. That's not good. That's your behind, I think. Way behind. Everybody else has done it but you. It's almost at this point that you're not legalizing weed like stop enough with this you're now 48 yeah there's egg on your face yeah you're going we don't want no tax dollars sure they're just going to go to the next state get it and bring it over here and smoke it and do whatever they want with it but we

don't want them paying us for it right shit, we don't want schools to be good. So, I don't know why I put that accent on for that. It's happening all over the place, but mainly places with that accent are the ones doing it. Because even like northern, middle-of-nowhere states that are the unpopulated states are even fucking legalizing. Was it Montana or South Dakota or some shit? Montana.

Recreational weed? You wouldn't expect that out of Montana. It that's a very conservative place right that just means that somebody up there got a hold of someone was like holy shit this is great this is matt you ever you ever had an edible it finally got there and they're like oh my god this is what they've been saying this is amazing jesus you know what maybe this isn't so bad so uh in the in the appeal request fleischer said that even the state psyche even the state psychiatrist who is dr sign agreed that blotty suffered from quote paranoid schizophrenia and was in a psychotic state quote he apparently thought he was killing some aliens who were trying to destroy his family.

Duh. That's all well and good. I mean, obviously. Yeah. But let's also hang on to him forever. Yeah, that's... It's fine. I agree. We should look it over.

Take some liberties. Take our time. Make sure we got it right. Let's get it straight. And again, make sure he never gets out. And then that, too. Because he's obviously out of his fucking mind. So just imagine she put on a pantsuit and got herself all together.

These judges put on their robes and comb their hair and everything like that. And everybody sat down and she went to law school and passed the bar. There's lots of experience. And then she said he apparently thought he was killing some aliens who are trying to destroy his family your honor i mean i don't know what else to tell you think about the ridiculousness of that whole scenario and where the fuck we are at this point so that's what they're going for so i mean obviously new trial right wink like what are we talking about so this time finally though in like 89 i think the court votes four to one in favor of hearing an appeal from him uh they're like his own attorney just called him psychotic we should probably take a look at this

this can't be good at best we're gonna have a fun afternoon listen to a great story what do you guys think i mean shit this sounds good aliens i'm up for this this sounds i need to hear what the hell happened here so during the appeal um they he also the part of their appeal is that he should have had the right to appeal immediately. Immediate appeal like the other 48 states, which this isn't the proper venue for that. You can't appeal. That's the law. You can appeal that to a higher court, but it's not what you're appealing anyway. So they said we need not decide whether a nondiscretionary first appeal of right of right should be granted to all criminal defendants in the state who are sentenced to life without parole. At this time, the statute doesn't do it.

And certainly it says, quote, certainly our state legislature could create a right to this type of full appellate review in specific categories if it chooses to do so. in specific categories if it chooses to do so however we conclude our discretionary procedure of either granting or denying a full appellate review as a conviction doesn't fucking we're not getting involved this isn't up to us okay right there's people that you vote for vote for them and then they'll do it because we're not fucking doing this show up to the polls motherfuckers. Because they say that basically the sentencing leaves a little little to the discretion of the juries. So basically, you know, the only thing up to the jury is the mercy question. And, you know, it's just better, better for the legislature. Let's just do that. Just do that. So they also are trying to figure out they're trying to figure out whether he was insane or not and whether he got a fair shake on his insanity.

So they say that he argues that the evidence presented in the case was inadequate to sustain a finding that the state proved his sanity beyond a reasonable doubt. Hey, I said I was crazy and they said I wasn't. So they discussed the state's burden regarding the sanity issue because it's the states that's why you have to like get a bunch of psychiatry they don't just let you plead insanity you have to apply for an insanity defense basically then they have to have people psychiatrists say that you're eligible for it or whatever because otherwise they deny people they we've had a ton of times where people want to use the insanity defense and they deny it as a defense. You're not allowed to say that next. So, yeah, they said that there exists in the trial of an accused a presumption of sanity.

However, should the accused offer evidence that he was insane, the presumption of sanity disappears and the burden is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was in fact sane at the time so um they say that uh he points out that the only thing they had to say he was sane is all the doctors said he was out of his mind batshit crazy you know tinfoil hat on the corner right the only things the people they had testified to say he was sane were the guy who delivered his firewood the tenant uh and the lady who works at the greenhouse okay they're the only people who were like i mean he seemed okay to me and one of them saw him a week before one of them saw him six days before and you know the other one saw him that night and said that he wouldn't say hello

and didn't talk so i don't know how you could say he was sane at that point if you didn't even speak to him. And also those guys, none of them have really medical knowledge of what insane is. You know, that's their lay people, as they put it in here. Yeah. Plus, if he didn't say hello and just kept walking, that's psychotic. That's like, yeah, I mean, it could be just he was zoning out thinking of something else. Or he could have been if, you know, she said something, he could have went aliens and then screamed and ran out. Like, who the fuck knows what they're doing here? Right. It's goddamn crazy. So anyway, yeah, he maintains that the testimony, the five lay witnesses to the seeming normalcy of him immediately prior to the shooting was insufficient to prove sanity when balanced against the testimony of multiple psychiatrists basically he maintains in this case

that the lay witnesses who testified to his normal behavior were inadequate to sustain a finding of sanity beyond a reasonable doubt somehow the court says we disagree i don't know how you could disagree with that that's reasonable although we concluded that the testimony from the state's lay witnesses was insufficient to prove sanity we emphasized in another case that quote we do not mean to say that lay testimony can never rebut expert testimony when lay witnesses testify about a person's mental condition the following factors are to be considered. This is very interesting to me. I hope it's interesting to everyone else.

So far. The witness's acquaintance with the person, an opportunity to observe their behavior. So it couldn't be someone you just met because you don't know how they are. There's no baseline there. You don't have a reference, right? Yeah. The time which the observation occurred, I guess, in context to the crime, the nature of the behavior observed.

occurred, I guess, in context to the crime, the nature of the behavior observed. However, none of the lay witnesses in the other case even knew that in the case that they're citing, none of the lay witnesses knew the person they were talking about. They're saying in this case that everybody did know who they knew him. They interacted with him regularly so they would be able to tell if he was acting abnormal when it comes to him, his baseline of whatever. So he said the different and they also said the differing conclusions reached by three psychiatrists in this case resulted from somewhat conflicting information supplied to them by him. There's one guy he only told about snorting fucking meth and the others he didn't say he was snorting meth. So they're saying they all they didn't all have a fair crack at it is what the court says this is a little mushy for me

this is like breaks that don't work work real well like i just i feel like i gotta pump this too much to get make this make legal sense like and make legal fairness i'll say even though i want this guy to be in jail forever i'm sure the legalities of it are a different thing i'd love to do it to where uh it's it's ironclad and above board yeah yeah yeah i'm glad and you got no regrets about having them in there exactly that's exactly right so fuck man so they said that uh conflicting information the effect effect of Frank's admitted substance abuse is also a point of disagreement among the experts. It is in the opinion of the court that in this case, the issue of the defendant's sanity was properly presented to the jury. And there was sufficient evidence for the jury to find that he was sane beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, a bunch of other errors he tries to find here.

He also argues in this. His last argument is that the trial court erred in failing to explain to the jury the effect of a decision to withhold a recommendation of mercy. It's pretty simple. Mercy means maybe parole. No mercy means no parole. Mercy means maybe parole. No mercy means no parole. You don't need a lawyer to sit down and go over something with a chart and a fucking highlighter to understand that.

I would hope not. If a juror couldn't understand that, they shouldn't be on a fucking murder trial journey if they're not that intelligent. You know what I'm saying? Solid point, yeah. If they don't even have that kind of logic, what are they finding their evidence on based on? They can't even they can infer nothing from seeing and listening to people. So, yeah, he said that the jury was instructed, quote, should you find the defendant guilty of first degree murder without recommendation of mercy, he will be sentenced to prison for life. The instruction was followed by an explanation that a mercy recommendation would entitle him to eligibility for parole after he served 10 years of his life sentence. So he said that they don't like how they explained it, but that seems like that's the explanation.

He doesn't like that they said, okay, here's the deal. He doesn't like that they told the jury that he could get out in 10 years if you give him recommendation of mercy got it they're saying that's not up to the jury of how long the parole process is that's a legislative issue of how long of your sentence you have to do so the people people on the jury heard he could get out in 10 years and to make sure that that absolutely does not happen yeah we'll go with no mercy we'll go with no mercy so that's his argument which again we're it's murky we're in a that's muddy waters man like that's kind of a good point they didn't somebody obviously didn't explain to those jurors that the man right today is being convicted and sentenced to prison for murdering his family.

Do you know how many few cold blood, cold blood? Very few people have ever killed three people and gotten out of prison within 10 years. That would be especially if two of them are their minor children, one of which you shot in the back as she ran from you like that's it's not going to happen. You put that in front of I mean, I'm sure it has happened happened i'm sure there's been terrible paroles or whatever that's happened but it probably shouldn't happen and at the same time the the length that he is in there that's not that's why they said the jury has a limited amount in their argument baladi's argument is the jury has a very limited amount of discretion in this of basically mercy or no mercy and you put

time into their discretion because you said 10 years which put a fucking thing on it so that now it's a different decision i'll bet you can count on one hand how many times this has happened and somebody got out within 10 years it's yeah that's what i'm saying it's it's probably it's tough especially this particular one but you know who? If he got in there and people thought he was crazy, but he's feeling better now and all that kind of shit, you never know. But I think still they'd be like, you know what? Go back and do a couple more. You're not getting out on first crack after that. No, never, never.

That's not it. If you just killed maybe one of them, but not all three. No. Not all three. And the one being the wife in the heat of the moment, and she hit him first, or holding the knife. You know what I mean? She was raging, going, I'm going to stab you, as she ran across the room holding a knife above her head. Maybe 10 years for that one.

Maybe 10. That's fucking funny. But also, you've got to look at it like he's, it's just so strange, because he also also i think a lot of the factor is too for him he shot himself in the fucking head which i would think to a jury would say like oh he really was off the deep end because like when people say they were crazy and then they're insane legally and then you say you know oh but you tried to cover up the crime you hid the bloody clothes in the dumpster and you drove away from the body and you took a shower.

So you were clearly aware of what you were doing and trying to cover up the crime. This guy did that, but with a gunshot to the head, which is like the crazy way to do it, you know, like. So I don't know. I don't know how the hell you how you figure that out. But either way, he was that was 1990. His appeal is denied. figure that out but either way he was that was 1990 his appeal is denied so um you know at that point he's sitting in prison waiting to try to get more going on because he's trying to get

that challenge he wants to go all the way to the supreme court with this thing and on november 28th 1996 he dies in prison so he never so he never gets the chance to that's a hell of an appeal sir there you go appeal officially denied i would say that would be an appeal forever uh yes indeed he's got a nice headstone i'll say that his family sprung for a nice stone he's got like the the rectangular stone on the bottom is like a base and then the nice stone coming up out of that so oh it's a stand-up it's a stand-up he's got a good one here it's nice it's got a like hands preying on it okay and his dates and all that kind of shit he was 51 years old when he died so i mean you know that's that's pretty young yeah praying yeah praying please don't let the aliens take me right so uh other other uh being in the sky please take care of these beings in the sky i saw a light beam

do you happen to know anything about that do you do you know the light beam people can you stop the uh the bick flame people the uh it's fucking amazing so that everybody is morgantown west virginia or kind of just i feel bad for morgantown because this happened this is probably in an area like on the outskirts up in the hills where the people in morgantown are like weird shit happens up there yeah yeah like they're the people who come down into the taco bell and go y'all got any mozzarella cheese sticks i want some fiestas because you know that's oh boy they're coming down from the hills again she She ordered a party at Taco Bell. Oh, yeah.

Some of them fiestas. All right. We don't have that. Why got them on your menu, man? All right, then. I would like two parties to go, please. Woo-hoo. Pack them up in the back of the truck, God damn it.

I got people in my cab fiestas and mozzarella cheese sticks which i wouldn't pull up to a taco bell and assume they had cheese sticks that's just not the way there's no nothing it's kind of like an italian pizza place thing and that sort of thing it's not a a bar maybe you'll have them as a munchie but not taco bell it's fucking mexican you know fast mexican y'all have mozzarella six lady the closest thing we have is a fucking mexican pizza yeah and it's not even no nothing pizza about that it's so strange has refried beans ma'am hi mcdonald's y'all got a bean burrito i could have no stupid we sell hamburgers and some other weird shit but

no burritos actually breakfast burritos actually yes we do we do have an apple pie you can put in your pocket so there's that by the way their pies suck now it is it's bad what happened those pies were the greatest thing in the world to be so good they changed it now it's all like flaky and it's too nice. It's too good. It shouldn't be that. It should be a piece of shit that comes in the thing. Right.

It should be like a little apple tart. That's what it's supposed to be. Yes, made out of sugared burlap. That's what it's supposed to be. That's what I expect when I want them. Not some flaky artisan bullshit. McDonald's, I want shit from you, damn it. So anyway, that's M flaky artisan bullshit right mcdonald's i want shit from you damn it so uh anyway that's morgantown hope you enjoyed that uh if you did there is a way to tell us yeah

absolutely a way to tell us you can get on apple podcast that purple icon and tell us all about it and tell the whole world about it give us five stars and say something it doesn't matter what you say but say something say what Say what you're more afraid of, aliens or demons invading your home. From below or above, what are you more afraid of? We'll be fine with that and give five stars.

All you got to do is put two words, from and then above or below. Your choice. One of the two. And we'll do that other episode maybe in like four or five years. I don't know. But when we're down the road, because I can't do it now, it's just sickening to me.

So, you know, it's done and it's so good. And I just want to share it and we can't. So that sucks. But anyway, do all that. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com right now because you can get everything for crime and sports and small town murder in that wonderful location, merchandise so much merchandise coming out of your ass over there we got everything there's so much of it jimmy it's coming out of your ass so uh we got merchandise out of your ass over there you can see tickets to these fucking live shows we're gonna go around and you just said spew some bullshit from the

stage you just could come and watch we'll talk in a sales pitch that's it i was up i slept for like two hours and i put together two small town murders in 24 hours i am delusional and i don't even fucking care i got through the story so i'm like whatever i don't fucking care don't care buy a shirt that has some shit story, so I'm like, whatever. I don't fucking care. Don't care. Like you buy a shirt that has some shit on it, it's coming out of your ass. We got shirts with shit on it. As a matter of fact, it's coming out of your ass. You can wipe your ass with it.

We don't care. It's already shit on it. What do we care? Doesn't matter. Buy a fucking shirt. It helps out the goddamn cause here. What do you want from me? You know what else you can do?

Buy tickets to live shows. There you go. Do that. We get money for that too. That's a good thing. You buy those, we'll go there. We'll begrudgingly make our way to your city that we hate and pretend we like

for the purposes of talking to you because we do like you. So we don't want to make you feel bad about your terrible city. We'll do that. Yes, and you can come watch us and we'll be so to make you feel bad about your terrible city, we'll do that. Yes. And you can come watch us, and we'll be so thankful if you come watch us. Do that.

We got tickets up your ass over there at shutupandgivemurder.com. You got tickets coming out of your ass over there. Whatever city you want, you can get. It doesn't matter. What do you want? Philly? Out of your ass. Right over there.

What do you want? What do you want? Tampa? Right out of your ass. Boom. Boom. Pow. Sana right out of your ass boom boom past san diego i love it when we're punchy this is a good shit so anyway get your tickets there and line all up and do that and take things in and out of your ass i don't care as well it fucking hurts between this and the aliens it's just this week oh man shit i listen to ps i hate this movie too

because i have to listen watch those fucking twilight movies to keep me company while i watch that because not like sarah makes me or keeps me hostage she hates it too but i don't like them so hang out with me while we're watching those movies it would be really fun if you guys did a spoiler like at the end of your your your show and just sort of like just kidding we love every one of these as a matter of fact these are all this is a list of my top 100 afi movies right here the lengths i go to to try to twist movies into a rom-com yeah i'm like i mean roadhouse is kind of a rom-com it's pretty funny when patrick swayze's fighting people in those tight jeans and he fucks kelly lynch so it's sort of a rom-com we

can watch that make fun of roadhouse right that's hilarious it happens so uh anyway we do that once in a while i get to pick but all that. Follow us on social media. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, and also Patreon, Patreon, Patreon. It's so good, our Patreon. We very rarely brag about things. We're very self-deprecating. The things that we are proud of are the effort that we put into this shit. Yeah. And if we know something's good we're like that's fucking good and our patreon is good shit and you get access to it's coming out of your ass you get access to the entire back catalog

for both shows patreons as well and the crime and sports ones are rarely about sports as for instance this week in both of our shows for crime and sports, you get the Atlanta Gold Club scandal, which is a big, giant, high class. I use that in quotes, high class, because it's expensive and they had a lot of mirrors and shit. Strip Club in Atlanta that got busted for offering more than your normal menu. Oh, service is coming out of your ass. Out of your ass, Jimmy. Really intensely out of your ass out of your ass jimmy also intensive it really intensely out of your ass so they had that going on and a bunch of athletes used to go there to receive these services and all of them got subpoenaed to testify under oath to find out exactly what services were rendered and uh they're rendered to many asses so you need to check that

out and then for small town murders we have kind of a sons of sam that new documentary that's gotten i use that in air quotes as well documentary about the son of sam killings that accuses basically this author named maury terry spent 20 years writing this book going into all the cult things about how david berkowitz was a member of this giant cult and it was a whole big thing and david berkowitz was a member of this giant cult and it was a whole big thing and david berkowitz had partners that also did the shootings he wasn't the only one and he's taking the fall for everybody oh boy and he's got things that mean things that mean that thing so it can't mean anything but this like the like these conclusions and i read over 20 hours of an audio

book of this so i listened to that and. And it's called The Ultimate Evil. And we're going to talk about this guy's theory. And it's you think aliens coming to kill your family is weird, too. He's got some crazy ass theories. And I mean, a couple that are on point. That's what makes it annoying, because there's a couple of things where you're like, I mean, that's true. But then he extracts and it goes to this, to this, to this. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hold on. Hold on. You lost me at B, pal. you lost me at b pal you lost me at b i was on board for a yeah and then your intensity is intensifying that's for sure it's wild so we're gonna laugh at some crazy satanic conspiracy shit and find out try to figure out what is real and what's not about the whole thing and that is uh this week and also you get access to the whole back catalog and you're a producer so we're going to say your name jimmy's going to try his best not to mispronounce it while mispronouncing it terribly

but we're going to honor you in either way we're going to honor you damn it honor coming out of your ass so we're going to do that he's got names coming out of his ass people it's hard for him to say them all so you get all of that at patreon.com slash crime and sports and And if you just want to make a one-time donation or whatever, and, you know, you got money coming out of your ass, you don't know what to do with it. You can throw a couple bucks on PayPal there,

and that'll still make you a producer where Jimmy will say your name. And, you know, you're a good honored part of the show. And we have, you have our undying affection and thankfulness. That said, Jimmy,

I think I need a list of my most favorite people in the goddamn world who keep our show going and keep us in food. What do you say, Jimmy? Hit me with that list right now. This week's executive producers are Joanne Ahern, Synanon graduate Christian Pierce. Oh, Synanon graduate. Ruben Revelis, I think it's Revelis. His daughter is, I believe she's getting married Reveles? I think it's Reveles. His daughter is,

I believe she's getting married in Vegas. I think that's the thing. Oh, boy. I'd have to check it. There's also Jordan Bennett. Michaela Reveles and his future son-in-law is Freddy Gonzalez. His son-in-law? No, it's just one. But they're getting married in

Vegas in June. Awesome. Congratulations, Atuius. Also, we in June. Awesome. Congratulations, the two of you. Also, we have Jordan Bennett, of course, and Michael Remick. I think it's Remick. You guys, we can't do it without you, and having you guys around, being so supportive is truly fucking incredible. Thank you so much. Other producers this week are Rick Parando and Jess Parando.

They're celebrating the 14th anniversary. Maria Rasper, Carl Kirshner, and his poison ivied asshole. Old boy wiped his ass in the woods, evidently, with the wrong plant. Oh, my God. That's why you always bring Charmin wherever you go.

Or there's also an app that you can identify plants. Get that thing, Carl, and figure out your life. Make sure you're not allergic first. Yeah, good call. James Marder, Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez. Happy birthday, Liz. I think we said it last week, but just to be sure, want to make sure.

Thank you so much, Liz. David Beers, in memory of racist Nan, for your pleasure, James. Well, thank you. We all miss him. I don't know how long racist Nan's been gone, but David wanted to make sure she was remembered. Might have just heard it. Thank you. We all miss him. I don't know how long race has Nance been gone, but David wanted to make sure she was remembered. Might have just heard it. Thank you so much.

Kelly Higby, Steve Schnell. Thank you, Steve. I miss that guy so much. Can't wait to get back out on the road. Carrie Brantley quit drinking and lost over 100 pounds, James. Way to go, Carrie. Wow. Congrats.

Keep it up. Valerie Callahan and her callahan break pads money uh alexa her camp kim hodgkiss dr leo marvin awesome dr marvin tiffany's terrific uh jeremy bethune amy easton jason roberts janice hill emma keller defended her thesis congratulations dr keller congrats. Jess Campanello. Elizabeth Romano. Jacob Cook is back to work after 14 months of fucking furlough. I hate this disease.

Congrats. Thomas Smith. Mother Jefferson's wig. Jacob Jake. No, that's Jake Jacob. Sorry. Mother Jefferson's wig. Rabbi Shmuel Olevich.

Say again? Mother Jefferson's wig. That has to be a Jefferson's reference. I love it. It is, of course. Thank you. Yes. Rabbi Shmuel Olevich. Sh It is, of course. Thank you. Yes. Rabbi Shmulalovich.

We love him. He's recovering from a car ran over his index finger. I don't know what this is. It's not a real person. It's not a real guy. Liz Nice Slice Smith. Jennifer Riddell. Doug, let's go to a live show.

What do you say? Let's do it. Tom Hale. Happy Father's Day, obviously, from your favorite say? Tom Hale, happy Father's Day, obviously, from your favorite daughter, Madison Hale. Happy Father's Day. Hawk Glandorf. No, happy Father's Day. Did I say birthday? You said Father's Day.

Okay, good. All right. Hawk Glandorf is headed to the Euro Cup. I don't know if he's a player or if he just wanted to go see it. He's just going to see it? What's the Euro Cup? Is that soccer? I don't watch enough soccer to recognize names. What's going on over there? I don't watch enough soccer to recognize names. What's going on over there? I don't know. Cameron Maynard, Jordan Hoffman, Emily Rogers, Lisa Dunton, Brandi Gaboury, Nimesai Aine

Davenport. I got Davenport right. Corey Cope, Bradley Biederman, Eric Dixon. Dixon. Dixon. Did you just call him Eric Dixkin? I did. He's going to get that now from others.

Forever. Stacey Clement, Ivan Gamboa, Mark Grossman, Courtney Reese, Ian Furman, I think. Don, oh boy, Beezkazad? That's not right. Ida Sleiter? I think it's Sider. John Helms, Kristen Miller, Lindsay Krizkowski, Kay with no last name, Alicia Lewis, Capo Dude, Sherry Shaw, Laura with no last name, Kelly Grismore, Annick Zadrow, Katerina Mathi...

What is this, Maddie? Mathi? Horn? What? Travis Schaefer, Quinn Hickey, Shannon Flaherty, Ashlyn Fadden, Ashley Fadden, sorry, Judith with no last name, Amy Garney, Andrew with no last name, Steven Salbo, infamous Dolly Mopp, Tiffany Daniels, Marshall Biggs, Cassandra Maxwell, Allison Randall, Brianna Labrie, Kendra Johnson, Tyrell Cruz, Tam with no last name, Megan Scruggs, Samantha, no last name, Matthew, Zaninovich, Trent Blair,

Cole Lopez, Emily Degnan, Ryan Lally, Lindsay Griffin, Catherine, yep, Didi, Didi, Diet, Diet, Jeff Williamson, Joseph McClure, Shelby with no last name, Alyssa Mulligan, Danny the Girl, Irene Karpenko, Luke Crowe, MattyDuck75, not the 74, Corey Ortega, Mark Jackson, the

coach, obviously, Aaron Dixon. There's a guy on Letterkenny, they call him Dickskin, and I say it to my kids constantly, so now I can't see Dixon without saying Dickskin. Just Dickskin? It's what it is now. I say it to my kids constantly. That's good. My 10-year-old girl loves it.

She just loves it when I call her Dickskin. Get over here, Dickskin. It's very sweet. I truly say it. We cook dinner, and I go, baby, get the carrots out of the fridge. She goes, I don't want to. I don't want carrots. And I go, then what do you want? I want asparagus. Well,, get the carrots out of the fridge. She goes, I don't want to. I don't want carrots. And I go, then what do you want?

I want asparagus. Well, then get the asparagus, Dickskin. And I just call her Dickskin. That's good. You don't offer her Dickskin. That's good. See, you're a good dad. You're just calling her that.

Right to her face. Call my 10-year-old Dickskin. Cordell Pringle, Ashley Duvall, Josh Hover, Patrick Berquist, Wade Dreyer, Jenna Touhey, I think, Paul Connors, Oscar Villarreal, Dr. Stapleton, Erica Allen, Lauren Conway, Wendy D, Dylan Merrill, Paris Clay, Jesse, oh, no way, Seal Kals, it's not going to happen, Josh Ng, N-G, I don't know how to pronounce that. It's just N-G. Is that... Ng?

Ng? Is it Ng? Ng? Oh, yeah. There was a serial killer Ng. Yes. Charles. Laura Tannehill.

Jeremy John. Alana with no last name. Also, Drew with no last name. Probably same family, right? Same family. No last names from up at Bridgeport. We know them. Troy Johnson.

Derek Lozano. Joshua Birch. Heidi Sullivan nancy burkert uh burkert michael hartzell um heather floh carrie lyons amy fulsome fulsome kim with no last name shane stone chris menton chuck anderson matt amaros uh patrick raymond tom humphries kirstys, Kirsten, what, Kirsten, Jan Smark, I don't know, Kyle Pendergast, Nicholas Devon, Mr. Pitts, Zach Klingberg, what, Jared May, Caitlin Gordy, Nolene Furlong, Furlong, Nolene Furlong, get it? Nolene Furlong, yeah, gotcha. You got it. Michelle Taylor, Sarah Tola, Valerie Zellner, Sam Wano, Stephen Hawk, Gretchen Gill, Lisa

Ridgway, Kyle Kerber, Pamela Lesser, Chase Poe, Eric Voigt, Dylan Banfield, Ashley Marie Nabel, Sandra Aldridge, Michael Kuehl, Walker Mason, Madison Grout, Ben with no last name, Ryan Roller, Michael Orr, Lauren with no last name, Gianni Frio, Seth with no last name, Daryl Houston, Abby Krutz, Jessica Dixon, Rudy Hernandez. How are there so many this week? There's a lot of Dixons this week. Melanie Fagan, Kevin Kostub, Jane Bradley, Vanessa with no last name, Pippa, Tessa, Pippa, and also Tessa. Oh, boy, that's so many Es. Matthew Hedden, Amanda Cerboni, Stuart, no last name, Paul, Robert, Janine Reeser, Krista

Tischler, Tiffany Solomon, Kathleen Justick, Kelsey Bertolas, Brooke Milto, Pat Ross, Nick Watson, Sophia Hamilton, Ricky Gator. If you're not in Florida, you're blowing it. Rebecca Richmond, Kenneth Bryan, Portia Ostler, Jared Watts, Mitchell Fisher. Oh, and Mitchell has two different Patreon accounts. Thank you, Mitchell. You're amazing. Ashley Turnbow, Chris Bailey, Matt and Nellie Zills, Ben Peterson, Cindy Sherrod, Derek Fleener, Sally Paulson,

Philip McNutt, Jack Flowers, and Michelle. Holy fuck. Bootri Moitz. Bootri Moitz. Wow. I apologize. But I do thank you. Every last one of you and all of our patrons.

You guys are fucking amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. So, so much for what you do for us. Honestly, we, fuck, we're blown away by it. And we just, we say it all the time that we can't thank you enough, but we really can't thank you enough. We try. We really do try to thank you enough.

And rather than, we know we can't thank you enough verbally, so we try to do it with our effort on the shows and on the virtual shows. And I'm sorry, on the Patreon shows. That's how we try to show it with our effort on the shows and on the virtual shows. And I'm sorry, on the Patreon shows. That's how we try to show our appreciation of shit. Let's let's just make them double over, hopefully laughing at these crazy shows. Right. And that I think that's worth five bucks. So that's what we do. That's that's what we do.

And that's what we're we're unbelievably grateful for for for the for the support that you guys show and the amount of you that that are interested in that it it's staggering really and honestly 10 years ago when i started comedy i never would have guessed uh this man would give two fucks about what i have to say or not a goddamn thing it's amazing so thank you so much thank you and what what if uh people wanted to maybe find out how intensely you are intensifying how could they get a hold of you i'm extremely extreme at uh at westman sucks that's where i'm at where are you at you can find me at jimmy p is funny uh just you can google us you know how to find it you look up the show and then it says we're there and then they'll follow that right you know how to extrapolate all that down the line just like

just like they do there on the thing that we were just talking about just like the conspiracy theorist you can extrapolate us down the line so that said it's been crazy and next week's episode is way fucked up so buckle up for that shit get ready for it now and we'll keep coming back again and again and again and And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.