Small Town Murder - #231 - A Classy Trashy Murder Mystery - Easton, Maryland

Episode Date: July 8, 2021

This week, in Easton, Maryland, a prominent person is killed in their own kitchen, in a most brutal manner, leaving investigators scrambling, and the FBI preparing a profile of the killer(s). What follows can only be described as "insane". Suspects, coming & going, family members turning against each other, threats, and years of legal wrangling. An absolute mess, with an equally messy ending! Along the way, we find out that fowl calling is an international sport, that DNA should probably be introduced at trial, not after the trial, and that there just aren't answers to every question!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  New episodes every Thursday!  Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail]  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!  Follow us on...  twitter.com/@murdersmall  facebook.com/smalltownpod  instagram.com/smalltownmurder  Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Easton, Maryland, the shockingly brutal killing of a prominent local person turns into a long twisted mystery and a cast of characters that seems too crazy to be real. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wisman thank you folks so much for joining us we We are excited for murder, which sounds really weird. That is crazy. It's hard to say, but you know what? When we get together, somehow it all works out and we have a good time, even though people die. But you know what? That's life. I wasn't there.

Let's do it here. First of all, thank you, everybody, for your reviews this week. Number one, we appreciate that. Apple Podcasts or any of the platforms that you can review, they help a lot. They help drive you up the charts, makes you look you know what i mean so thank you for that also head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now for everything small town murder and crime and sports all the merch is up we have mind your business and mind your fucking business merch up all over the place now new stuff up there and tickets to live shows all throughout 2022 and a few at the end of 2021

get your tickets right now a lot of those were already they're from 2020 so a lot of those 2019 some of them so a lot of these are sold pretty well already so if you want to get your tickets probably don't delay or it might not be there so we can't wait to see you come out and see us we are jacked to get back on the road. Also, Upside Down Digital Network is cooking. It exists. It exists. And tomorrow, Friday, July the 9th, we have our second show coming out. And it's amazing.

Life After Happy Face. Right. You want to subscribe to this right away. Melissa Moore, Dr. Laura Petler. They're fantastic. Dr. Laura is like tops in her field in what she does. She knows what she's doing. She's incredible.

And Melissa Moore has an insight into the whole murder genre that is very, very unique, considering that her father was the happy face killer. So it's crazy, crazy stuff. She's going to give you a different take on all sorts of different things. And it's a show that I'm telling you, if it wasn on our network we'd still be really excited i'm interested we'd be listening to it so we can't wait and we hope you can't wait as well listen to that patreon.com slash crime and sports my goodness do we have a good one this week for you on both of these episodes and you get access to both both shows, bonus episodes and everything

because you're a patron. For crime and sports is what you will get. We do a history of drugs and sports, which is pretty funny because you don't realize that people like 110 years ago were injecting cocaine into their eyeballs before they would do a race.

Like the Olympics started the no doping thing in 1929 because people had been doing shit so that's why it's really interesting and then for the small town murder one and this i'm very very excited about uh can't wait to share this with everybody here it is the downfall of the hillside stranglers and it is so crazy hypnosis multiple. They tried to drop the charges against why Angela Bono almost walked away from this. I'm talking you way here. How close it was. A crazy person who tried to establish an alibi for Bianchi and then fell in love with a different serial killer.

This is insane. This whole thing. You got to check it out. Telling you, Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. And in addition to that, you're also a out telling you patreon.com slash crime and sports and in in addition to that you're also a producer yes at that point so you're gonna get you know jimmy's gonna mispronounce your name of course that's right because we're gonna try to thank you and then we'll insult you by accident so because he'll try his best though so do that and if you just want to make our donation

and have great karma and get your name mispronounced you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com right that said disclaimer it's a comedy show everybody there's a all the facts are real and we'll tell you some of these cases in this one especially today you'll hear it and go are you sure all that's real yes we promise you swear on everything that everything you're about to hear is true uh we don't you don't even need to make jokes they make themselves you know obviously there's nothing funny about the actual murders that happen no one's gonna say you know oh and then her head was removed from her body and we go that's only oh dismembering this is great that's not what this is about it's in the planning of the crime and

trying to get away with the crime and that's fucking nuts because it's crazy and it's a nutty thing to think to do right and so we'll definitely make fun of all that sure so uh you know we'll do all that but what we won't do is we will not make fun of the victims or the victims families and do that because we're assholes but we're not scumbags everybody that's how it works and uh if you think that's good that we're going to have a great time. If you think true crime and comedy never ever should go together, I don't know. Maybe we're not for you. No complaints later on.

We're all on board in the same thing here. I say try to enjoy it and hear what's going on. Maybe we'll have a good time with it. All right? So that said, everybody sit back, clear the lungs, and shout, Shut up and give me murder. Not bad. We did our own things, but still it was good.

I like that. I enjoyed it. Let's go on a trip. I'd like that. Let's do this. We're coming from New Mexico. Yeah. So obviously we want-

Fuck out of here. We want out of that area, definitely. So let's head all the way to the other side. We're going to go right up to the water in the Atlantic here. We're going to go all the way to Maryland. Yeah. Going to Easton, Maryland. Shit, yeah.

Easton, like the aluminum baseball bat. Baseball bats and college gloves. Which I found out is not made here. No? Nothing to do with here. Not a thing. Made in Thousand Oaks, California. Is that right?

It's just somebody named Easton. That's odd. Nothing to do with this place. I was very excited. I was like, oh, great. Town's going to revolve around the baseball bat factory. This is... No.

Not a bit. No. 12-year-old James was excited. Not a ping to be heard. No. Ping. Shit. So this is in southeastern Maryland.

Okay. Right in the eastern panhandle. Yeah. I mean, Maryland's like a three... It looks like a pie symbol almost, and it's all panhandly. This is dead center in this panhandle. Yeah. I mean, Maryland's like a three, it looks like a pie symbol almost, and it's all panhandly. This is dead center in this panhandle. It's about an hour and 20 minutes to Baltimore, about two hours up to Philly, and about an hour and 20 minutes over to Middle River, Maryland, which is our last episode, which

was episode 178, July 1st, 2020. Shit. So just about, almost exactly a year ago yeah so not bad we missed it by a week yeah should have did this last week right in the right when everything was cooking oh man so yeah we were we were trying we were good and bummed out we were trapped this is in talbot county area code 410 it's about 11 and a half square miles it's a pretty decent size town and we will uh buzz through the town stuff pretty quick because there's a lot of murder here to get to. So history, it's settled by Quakers.

Yeah, of course. Obviously, as most things are. Sure. Settled by the, there are good people to settle something. They're very boring, the Quakers. So the settled really has a. As soon as they show up, fun stops anyway. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Everything's going to settle right down. So there are good people to settle things. They established as it was established as a town in 1710 when they chose this area as the site of a courthouse. So and they it was the Talbot Courthouse there. And then they ended up changing the name to Easton. So there you go after easton england that's what this is named after here um let's see there's a tree there's uh the y oak state park which preserved a 460 year old white oak tree really which is awesome it's 96 feet high

and 32 feet around the truck fucking thing's almost 500 years old. That's crazy. It's an amazing thing here. But in 2002, a storm knocked it down. Of course. Sorry to laugh, but yeah. For some reason, it's like if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. And it went wrong. Leave it to nature to wipe out its impressive feats also.

That's it, man. 2005, I guess most of Wed wedding crashers was filmed in this area okay yeah yeah yeah when they went yeah maryland we do crabs and yeah it's a lot of water and things and you know it's beautiful yeah this place is like anywhere by the water there's a lot of big rich houses with like a you know little boat dock yeah place where you could just go in the summertime and there's fireflies going off and you have like a mixed drink at the end of the dock and all that sort of thing. Either that or a trailer park. There's no in between in this place.

Away from the water, it's like, oh, those people work at the McDonald's. Stop there. On the way in from yachting. Lands only expensive on the water. That's what it is uh in 2008 a lost painting of a paris street scene uh by eduard cortez was discovered amongst donated items at a goodwill store in easton and uh after an alert the store manager notified what you know what looked like a signed original yeah it was auctioned for over forty thousand dollars oh so that's it that seems low but i mean still 40 grand at the goodwill that's why it, but I mean, still, $40,000 at the Goodwill.

That's why it was donated. It's not a good, it would have been $2.50 at the Goodwill, like $2.50. In 2011, local officials erected a statue of Frederick Douglass. Okay. He was born near the Y House Plantation.

Okay. Near Eastern, so they erected one there for him. Very cool. And then in 2018, house plantation near Eastern. So they erected one there for him. And then in 2018, it was named one of America's top five coolest places to buy a vacation home. Coolest. To buy a vacation. Not to live. Right.

To buy a vacation. How many people, what percentage of people in this country would have any use for that article? Nothing. A vacation. Do you know a single individual article nothing a vacation do you know a single individual has a vacation home very narrow audience you're throwing that out too i literally don't know a human being that has a vacation home i mean yes i'm trash but nor we're trash let's be

out we're not we don't know many people in that strata anyway but like i don't know any and that's too low to find somebody that just has a vacation house. Forget like one that's on a list of top 10 coolest places. Top five. Top five. Top 10. They narrowed it way down. Shit, no, this is at least top five here.

I found reviews of this town. Five stars here. Easton has a little bit of everything to offer. Changing of the seasons brings new activities and areas to explore. Step outside on a quaint walking trail that will take you through town to little shops. Ride your bike down to Oxford and enjoy ice cream by the bay. Put your feet up and relax at one of the local spas. Small but perfect.

They just described the montage of Owenen wilson and that girl yeah fell in love with her that's i mean i don't think you could get a more glowing yeah fucking review of a town like that's everything the chamber of commerce put that together and put it out do everything great here another five star easton is a small town where everyone knows you to me that's a negative this person seems seems to like it. They enjoy it. My family grew up here, and our community is safe and quaint. The people who live here care about the community, and because there is a lot of wealth here, our town is taken care of very well by the residents.

Everybody comments on this, the wealth here. It's very wealthy. Here's a one-star review. I'm not so excited. It's very, very wealthy. Here's a one-star review. I'm not so excited. I moved to this town in 2005, and for teenagers to anyone in their 20s, this is not a good town.

If you don't have money, this sucks. Yeah, if you have to work at the McDonald's and everybody points at you from the water, it's bad. There's not much to do, and there is too much alcohol and drug use around this town. Along with that, the education system around this area is terrible. All the rich people probably send their kids to private school. I moved from central New Jersey, and I could see a significant difference in education. The classes seem much slower, and the teachers in the schools do not seem that devoted to their students. I don't know what they're supposed to do.

They want to jerk you off? I mean, they do that anyway a lot now. That's pretty common. It's common yeah i would never want to raise kids of my own here and suggest anyone who is looking for a great place to live to look elsewhere okay not happy with the way things are going and here's a two star uh there are a lot of jobs for people who wish to work for minimum wage like fast food places and stores but not many big companies or government jobs there's a lot of medical jobs but usually they are privately owned businesses so for new people it's difficult

yeah so yeah there's a lot of old money here that's the thing it's you know that's you're going to be definitely looking in on that people that have like boats and shit like you know like that kind of not a rowboat right fucking outboard motor on it not a troller right and a five horsepower troller i'm talking not a bass-horsepower troller, I'm talking. Not a bass boat, I'm talking. These are $60,000, $80,000 boats. Easy. For the little guys, for the sailing ones.

And then they hire crews to work on them, too. That's another level of, I don't understand. But people in this town, 16,606 people here. It's up 77% since 1990. Holy shit. This place has grown a lot. It really shot up here like late 80s, early 90s. Way more females than males, like 55% female, which is very odd.

The only thing I can make of it is there's a lot of old people. The median age here is 43. It's normally a little under 38, but it's uh the median age here is 43 it's normally a little under 38 but it's double the 85 and over year olds yeah double that demographic but also shit loads of kids really so i don't know what's happening here yeah it's a lot of young people and a lot of very old several kids yeah and these are people with like the older people a lot of them have money so they can afford to live forever basically they. They can afford to just keep taking those day of the week things of pills and loading up handfuls by the time they're going to live to be 97. The rattler.

That's the rattler. Now, married is pretty much average. It's a little high, but not too high. A little average. Single with no children, actually, is almost average here. It's a little low, is almost average here it's a little low but almost average so you're not getting uh completely you know lack of uh if you wanted a young person wanting to go out now race of this town it's about 70 white and uh 12.6 black which is like just about exactly the national

average uh 1.9 asian 12.1 hispanic so it's almost it's semi-representative of the kind of the national population this place here religion 43 of the people here are religious and which is a little under average and it's it's spread out too there's some methodists there's some catholics and a episcopalian or two roaming around here you got a presbyterian if you look under one of these and i love that and a pentecostal if you check under a rock over here you got a final jeopardy question right because of this show because they asked what is the uh predominant uh religion of north dakotas and wyoming i was like that's fucking lutheran all day boom yahtzee nailed it i didn't have any money to wager but i would have won you would would have won. 0.9% Jewish.

Oh, so close. So close. You know what? Close enough. What the hell? After last week with the key surgery, let's do it. Hava, Nagila, Hava, Nagila, Hava, Nagila. I don't know the words.

Hey. Why not? We need something good here. Fantastic. Let's see. Last election, pretty even politically too 40 this is the county talbot county 49 percent democrat 48.5 percent republican 2.4 percent independent so pretty much down the middle unemployment rates a little bit lower than the

rest of the country at the moment household income slightly lower too it's about 57 and a half thousand in the rest of the country here Here it's about $52,500. And it's a little expensive, though. Really? That's the thing. It's haves and have-nots here, it seems like. It really does. This is like, seems like the other side of the tracks type of place.

Like, you know, very much like you're not allowed to date a boy from the south side, Melissa. What are you talking about? You know, who are his parents? Where are they from? Where do they summer? Where will they be wintering this year? Lots of young girls. side melissa what are you talking about you know who are his parents where are they from where do they summer where will they be wintering this year lots of young girls screaming it's not romeo and juliet stop it yeah uh the cost of living 100 is regular average here it's 106.1 so pretty high and the highest thing is housing which is a 120 out of 100. Median home cost $277,500.

So a little bit high. But you know what? If you've got the means, you want to take up more of a sailing lifestyle, you've got one of those white hats. We have for you the Easton, Maryland real estate report. state report the average two-bedroom rental here goes for about eleven hundred sixty dollars okay which is right around the national average and uh so maybe that's the way to go i don't know i found a three-bedroom one bath 1296 square feet let's just say it needs a little bit of work all right you're gonna have to do some stuff on the inside. It's small. It's certainly a vacation home. Well, I don't know.

I feel like this isn't in the vacation area, I don't think. No. It needs some work. $110,000. Okay. That's not on the water, let's say. That's not location, location, location. No, no.

This is for if you're just a working family here. I'm talking, this isn't your old money. Don't worry. I got that in my back pocket over here. Found a three bedroom, two bath, thirteen hundred forty four square foot. It's just nicer than the other one. More updated. Yeah.

Nicer. Two hundred forty nine thousand dollars for that. So that's kind of more of the national average. Then let's say, you know, you're you're doing fine. You've been you've inherited things. We have a four. You're doing fine. You've inherited things. You're doing very well. Who knows?

We have a four-bedroom, three-bath, 3,422-square-foot house. Very nice. On the water. Backyard goes up to the water. There's a little dock that comes out that you can stroll down while you're wearing linen. It's gorgeous. It's ridiculous, this house. $995,000 for that, though.

You're paying for that lifestyle, without a doubt. So next up, things to do, obviously. I found some. There's some redneck shit in this area, too, like I said. There's like blue blood sounding shit, and then there are some. Blue crab having shit. Some blue bloods and blue crabs, yeah. We have the Waterfowl festival.

Oh, Jesus. Join us. A festival. All around birds above water. Well, let's find out exactly what they're celebrating. It's Easton's homecoming. It says join us for Easton's homecoming. This year is the 50th annual waterfowl festival. Number 50.

Everybody fucking get in your rvs and get down there let's dance let's go we'll take uh rent one if you have to load up the whole i'm talking everybody you know friends on it everybody it's the waterfowl festival november 12th through the 14th it's a wildlife art show sportsman's expo and small town festival that's what they say themselves or build themselves as celebrates all things eastern shore and showcases easton and its autumn glory meet the finest wildlife artists which is the strangest title there's people like sculpt like a bird come meet somebody that drew a flamingo and painters sculptors carvers photographers see their work in galleries but that's not the main draw no jimmy that's not the main draw the

main draw is the premier calling championships in the world stop this putting the duck and goose back into duck and goose calling that's on their website i kind of want to see it competitors are immersed in the language of the incredible waterfowl of the region competing against each other for the coveted title of world champion now here comes scooter see he's he's great yeah he is fluent in mallard so if this is ever on tv we yeah volunteer oh god you're not going to get a famous sports you're not paying me i'll do it for free waterfowl we're the most famous people you're going to get for this okay that's the thing and we're not famous but no one else is going to do this but we'll draw we'll do this our audience

will what they won't know what they're watching but they'll be there we want to call this it will be better than the in Show, I guarantee it. Now, here come macaroni and cheese up to the... He's setting on up to the podium. He got his nickname back in high school when he stabbed a woman for her macaroni and cheese. Funny little story. Anyway, he's going to do a goose call now. Let's see what he does.

Oh, my goodness. Now, that's the best... If I was a goose, I'd have sex with him right now say drop them drawers pal let's do it i don't know i can't wait i really want to be a part of that callers from around the world come to easton once a year to showcase their skills and hope to be immortalized in the history books of championship calling this sounds so exciting this sounds like vince m Vince McMahon wrote it. It's amazing. Many of the industry's leaders in waterfowl calling and hunting have gotten their start on the calling championship stage at the waterfowl.

It's like just for laughs. I want to hear a guy that can call with his fucking throat, though. I do. That's impressive. Only one of them, though. I don't want to see them all. No, not all of them. Just one guy's done.

Show me the best one. I'll fall out. I know on SportsCenter, they. I don't want to see them all. No, not all of them. Just one guy's number one. Show me the best one. Yeah, I'm all full up. I know, like, on SportsCenter, they used to show, like, here's this. And they'd show one guy, and they'd go, all right, then. And then they'd go to hockey. Sounds just like it. Now all of them. The World Championship Goose Calling Championship.

Wow, that's a lot of championships. Founded in 1976 as the longest-running goose calling championship in these United States. Hell yeah. This championship has single-handedly changed the shape and face of the goose calling and waterfowl industry! Exclamation point. Prize packages range from $5,000 to $12,000 in cash and prizes, thanks to all of our corporate partners. Not bad. With audiences of 600 plus, they draw.

Oh, hey, yeah. And five championships and incredible prize packages on the line, the stage is always set for an exciting evening. The beauty of Easton's championships is a level playing ground. Anyone, novice or master, can blow. Can blow? That's period. Can blow.

You know what? That's a good lesson for all of the people out there. Anyone, people, novice or master, can blow. All you what? That's a good lesson for all of the people out there. Anyone, people, novice or master, can blow. All you need is enthusiasm, right? Isn't that what you say? The World Waterfowl Calling Championships bring judges

from all the flyways to have representation from across the country. All the callers on our stage showcase their incredible abilities to operate a duck or goose call. However, our live championships stress that all callers must replicate the sounds of actual ducks and geese. The callers are instructed not to go outside the realm of natural sounds of ducks and geese. By leveling the playing field, any and all callers are urged to participate the championship is not about who can operate

the call the best but who sounds the best in the field so it is definitely with their throat huh i guess i don't know it can't be who can operate it says and who can so i guess maybe there's a thing if you bring a duck dynasty duck call and get all the ducks there you're an asshole yeah yeah i guess i don't know is it how many ducks flock to you or just how does it how it sounds stand there with your arms out and they land on you? Maybe. That's how you do it. Like a Disney princess?

Yeah. Princess Waterfowl? She's got everything on there. Our master of ceremonies is Chad Belding. Oh, Chad Belding. My God. I opened for him for years. Did Mr. Belding have a kid?

Is he a fictional character? The host of The Fowl Life. Okay. And owner of Jargon Duck and Goose Calls. Oh. In his 36 years, he's worked with the best in the hunting industry. Who cares? I don't know.

There's Junior Duck and Goose Call. Of course there is. Regular, and then the Senior Division, because you slow down a bit in your calling when you get older. $50 are the tickets for this. Holy shit. $50 are the tickets for this. Holy shit. $50 for this. To be outdoors watching some asshole blow a whistle. Yeah, it's going to be cold, too.

Put your jacket on. Fuck. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, property crime is just under the national average. We're pretty close. And then the violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is national average. Okay. Pretty close. And then the violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is exactly average. Like exactly to the T. Right on it.

National average. So that said, nice, safe town. Yeah. Live by the water. Have a mixed drink on the dock. And let's talk about a murder. Okay. Let's do it here.

Because this is one of those where I'm like, what? And then I find the next thing. I'm like, are you, what? This is real? This is absolutely fucking bonkers. Terrific. So let's get into this. Let's go back in the time machine. We'll hop in, and we're going to go back to 1987.

Oh, yeah. Look at this. January 5th, 1987. What's going on? Andre the Giant's ripping the cross off of Hulk Hogan's neck. There's a lot of things happening here. SoundNet Live is great. It's getting better again.

It's coming out of the doldrums of that early 80s badness. John Lovitz is on it now. You're starting to come around. Victoria Jackson is crushing it. She's good at the time. You've got Dana Carvey was starting to come into his own. Phil Hartman thriving. Well, you know who's not thriving?

Who's that? Is a woman who is 64 years old. Her name is Adeline Curry Wilford. She goes by Curly is her nickname. Everybody calls her Curly. So Curly Wilford. And from what everyone says, she's a very classy lady. Very classy. Well to do. Pearl classy, well-to-do.

Pearls and shit like that. Yeah, classy, smart, sophisticated, but also grew up in the country too at the same time. So she's got like this whole, yeah, she's down to earth at the same time. So people have a lot of good things to say about Curly. She's capable.

She's a little rugged, but she's got money. She's badass, but she's also like, you know. If this shit's a pain in the balls to do i'll hire i'll hire someone exactly if i need to yeah she's 64 years old so uh she lives alone and about three o'clock a friend of hers comes over a guy named jack ripley he's a neighbor i believe he was scheduled to come over she had some errands she was supposed to run. And then he said, yeah, he's going to come over. Maybe Jack is the guy that fixes things.

That's a guy that, fuck, he's got calluses. Jack Ripley knows how to, like, if there's something wrong with your sink, Jack Ripley will just get under there. You don't know what he's doing. You'll hear banging and stuff like that. And then he'll go, try it now. Turn the water on. And I'll go, all right.

And then he'll get out. Thanks, Jack. And then he leaves. Straighten the door frame. Shit, I'll unbutton it it's fine i'll get the frame off staple it back off look closes good and it's all perfect gotta go look i'll put those door trims back on you so you don't look like courtney from love after lock up sorry we've been watching naked door frame none she doesn't have a piece of trim in this joint man do it do me sorry you have to watch love after lock up the new ones are incredible it's insane we'll do a bonus when the season's over love after lock up you have outdone yourself do me so they really have this season

they've outdone themselves they have turned over every rock stone desert cactus they found them all oh my god they they're digging in holes people are popping out of the ground like john goodman and raising arizona for this got another i got one crazy as fuck you're not gonna believe it holding it up like a it just caught a musky this by it's a foot so uh this particular day is january 5th 1987 so cold you know in this area and um it's about 3 p.m like i said jack ripley comes over presumably to capably fix something sure and uh friend of hers you know he is he comes over and he she her car's out there but she's not answering the door yeah so you know he looks in and ends up going in i don't know if he has a key or what but he ends up going in sure and

what he finds is not what he expected to find he finds ms wilford here curly um on her kitchen floor uh pretty clearly deceased she's seen better days we'll say um now a little tracking of her she'd been photographed at her bank by the security system driving the car through the bank drive-thru at 2 10 a.m or 2 10 p.m i'm sorry so just a few minutes ago that's 50 minutes before jack so sometime between 2 10 it must have taken her a few minutes to get home and so there's about a you know 45 minute window of possibility even and then when jack was coming over he didn't see anybody running away from here so you got to take a couple minutes out of that yeah it's a small window really of what could have happened and uh so

it's obviously between when she left the bank and and now so he calls the police uh he didn't just leave he was like well i guess she don't need nothing. And then she took off. Well, that's that then. She's not paying. Gotta run. That's that then. He just does one of these. And he's like, all right.

And he goes home. So the Maryland State Police come to the house here shortly after the call. Hearing of a dead woman in a nice neighborhood, especially. What they find is the window on the west side of the house is propped open with a stick. Okay. It's a regular window propped open with a stick. And they believe that must have been the way somebody entered the home, which it led into a utility room, washer and dryer, like a laundry room type of deal. So got in through there and went on.

washer and dryer like a laundry room type of deal so got in through there and went on when the police entered the door uh entered the house the first thing they find is the keys to the house are still in the lock in the door oh from the outside yeah obviously so um that's that's obviously something to look at yeah first of all whoever did this didn't take the keys no uh number one and number two this clearly is a surprise yeah she didn't even have time to take the keys out of the door so uh when they go in they find her she's lying face up on the floor she's wearing a blue coat as well like an outdoor coat not a house coat and she's wearing uh she has a set of glasses on a cord around her neck you know those every grandma's got a racist man had always had those and she'd go where are my glasses

the same place they always are hanging around your neck you bought something decorative grandma so that you can always keep they're always there yeah you should get one of those i'm gonna get you you know i'm gonna get jimmy a going to get Jimmy a nice chain cord for his glasses. It's going to be really nice. Some jewels on it. Yeah. Even though he always has them on and never takes them off anyway, just in case he needs to slip them off for a minute.

Just in case they want to fall down a minute. Well, you don't have to hold them if you're wiping your eyes or something. You just let them hang. You know how many times you get a headache from these fucking things? Yeah. Let them dangle once in a while, Jimmy. It'll be helpful. You know? Close your eyes. Take a break. Just drop them and take a swig of something rub your eyes

yeah where are they i know exactly where they are i know what jimmy's getting for christmas the whole set of them hell yeah i'm gonna find you some cool ones skulls on them or whatever the hell you like i would rock i know you would that's why I'm going to find them. So they find her. She's wearing the glasses around the cord that Jimmy will be wearing very shortly. And that could be funny, but this part is definitely not. There are numerous stab wounds to her hands and face. There's defensive wounds. There's a lot of wounds to the head, neck, face.

Really attacked. Hands. Oh, yeah. It's there's defensive wounds. There's a lot of wounds to the head, neck, face, really attacked hands. Oh, yeah. There is a large butcher knife with an eight inch blade described by the police as, quote, shoved right through the side of her cheek and head. Dear Lord. Yeah. That's what's sticking out of her when they find her. Oh, so, yeah, that's what I mean. When a friend found her, she was like, whoa, holy shit.

This isn't like I'll start performing CPR. There's a fucking butcher knife sticking out of her face. This is bad stuff. There's also groceries sitting on the kitchen table. Yeah. In the bag still in grocery bag still on not taking out cold items even. OK. Not just like, well, I'll put those, I'll put the macaroni and the cereal away later.

Right. There's cold items there. If you're leaving sour cream out, there's an issue. For sure. So between the keys and the groceries, it obviously looks like this was some kind of surprise. The officers perform a sweep of the house. They try to find if anybody else is inside. They said items inside the home seemed out of place, but it didn't look like kind of ransacked, really.

But it just moved around. They said dressers were open, quote, with stuff taken out. That was a hell of a technical police report. Whoever wrote this report, really, is a top-notch report writer. I'll give them that, which suggests that, quote, someone had broken into the house and was looking for money or other goods. Obviously, they lifted some fingerprints and palm prints. And there's a palm print, especially that's going to matter to this whole case. All the other fingerprints can kind of be accounted for or they're just they can't be matched or they're too dirty or whatever.

But there's a palm print that we're going to find. dirty or whatever but there's a palm print that we're going to find uh one of the uh some of the prints they find are uh the outside of the utility room window and uh on the washing machine in the utility room like you climb through the window land on the washing machine hold your hand on it as you're you know as you're dragging your feet bracing yourself with your palm you know how that goes so you know you know when you're breaking into an old lady's. Yeah. So. I've broken into my mom's house before because I was locked out. Yeah, your own house. Yeah. My mom was like, the idiot won't stay out too late and get drunk.

Then he can sleep outside. I'm not sleeping outside, Mom. I'm going to break into this motherfucker. That's how I'm getting in. I'm definitely going to find glass the next morning is what's going to happen. There's rocks outside and you have glass windows. I don't know what you think I'm doing. So they lift all of that.

And we'll talk about this palm print in a minute. The daughters of, of Curly here, who is Kate Wilford Carrier and Evelyn Wilford Lippincott. They're her daughters. They said that in the months leading up to this whole thing, the window in the utility room was always propped open with a stick. She left it like that.

Oh. So that wasn't like done by somebody else. She said that there was a, quote, persistent, god-awful odor that smelled like what she called, quote, a family of dead mice. Jeez. Jeez. So I say, you know, over the course of months, I would say find the source of your stink. Certainly. It's probably, I don say find the source of your stink. Certainly.

It's probably, I don't know if it's a washing machine. I don't know if maybe something crawled into your dryer and died, possibly. That's possible. Or in the mechanisms of something in there. There might be like a dead raccoon in the wall. I would find that. It could just be the drain of the... That's the other thing.

That is gross. Those can be disgusting. You might have to change your thing in the washer. You got to clear stuff out. Get the hair out of there. We don't know what happened, but she said it smelled horrible, so she kept the window open at all times, even in January in the middle of the winter. So the daughter said she knows it for a fact because she used to give her mother a hard

time about it all. It's the middle of winter. You got the goddamn window open. What's wrong with you? You know, whatever. You should close it all. It's the middle of winter. You've got the goddamn window open. What's wrong with you? You know, whatever. You should close the window. It's dangerous to leave windows open. And one of the people in the State Police Evidence Collection Unit noted that if the utility room window was opened, the lower portion where the palm print was found would be pushed up behind the upper portion rendering the exterior panes

inaccessible to anyone's hands so there's but i think if you're going out the other way it's a way to leave a palm print obviously because someone did yeah so um that also means i think that the window was up already they didn't put it up it was already up and they probably you put it your hand above your head so you don't hit your head on it as you go in yeah to brace yourself that would be your palm sure it makes a lot of sense to me so a number of items were missing including the tan pocketbook that she always carries and was seen carrying that day uh her custom-made diamond and sapphire ring that she always wore her wallet containing credit cards and an undetermined no one knew how much cash she had on her, but she carried a decent amount, not,

you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars or anything, but you know, where you get a couple hundred bucks, it's enough. It's got something. Yeah. Uh,

they never found any of this, any like laying around or in find like a ring in the yard or anything like that. Or like a purse dumped in a sewer or something. She, uh, they figure she must've come in the house, placed her groceries down

went to get her keys and uh you know was confronted she said that the evidence says that she was stabbed repeatedly not only was there a broken yeah and and blade in her face there were several other knives with broken blades on the floor around her body. Dear Lord, man. So they had, whoever this is, had stabbed her so viciously that they broke numerous knives until they found a giant knife that they could stick into her head, which is fucking brutal. She's 65, man. Yeah, that sounds brutal. And just from my, obviously I'm not an expert on on anything but like if i saw minimal things missing the house like kind of rifled but not ransacked because when i see whenever it's like rifled and

ransacked not ransacked i always feel like that's like someone wanted to make it look like it's been ransacked but they don't know how to do that because they're not a house robber made a solid effort yeah and this this seems very personal to me. Oh, boy. You know, very rarely does somebody that you don't even know make you angry to the point of driving a fucking butcher knife through their fucking head. That's post the other attempts. Yeah, that failed. That's what I mean. Like, this seems personal to me. The whole thing seems like personal. And they tried to make it look like it was a not personal thing i don't know it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity that is pretty great With a touch of humor. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast,

Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital

to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad- free right now by joining wondery plus no but uh there's broken blades around and uh the knife wounds indicate that she was in a defensive posture and it appears that there was a struggle between her and whoever her attacker or attackers were and um but yeah she's lying on her back with a knife in her cheek at the end of it. She said that one of the daughters said that some of the areas in the home were disturbed,

but it wasn't ransacked. And they can't tell. They said investigators said they couldn't tell whether maybe Curly herself moved objects around or, you know, like was fighting with them over the course of a fight or if this was intruders moving stuff around or whatever. So anyway, she was born in Pittsburgh on September 6th, 1922. She was a divorcee at the time. She had divorced her husband, who was J.S. Wilford.

Oh, the initials. If you only use initials, that means you got dough you're doing well that means there's a lot of other wilfords with your name right in your long family lineage of people who've done well and you need to be the one that's specific the js one the js yes specific but vague yeah yeah like js oh that guy if you're in the know you know who he is but otherwise you're like j who the hell's that right yeah he doesn't want any just anybody to know his name uh she that she they together had four children okay so they have daughters at this point they have two daughters and a son i believed one of their children had passed away at some point at a younger time it was the 20s

it's well no this was the well not even it was this is 1987 so no but i mean yeah yeah i guess it was probably the 50s 30s 40s depends on how old she was 30 years yeah it was the 40s 50s when she had the kids so yeah who knows one of them might have polio that's what i'm saying yeah we don't know so uh they say she is well known for her volunteer work at the ymca in a-H horseback riding program for the disabled. What? That she volunteers in. Thanks. She puts disabled children on fucking horseback.

That's a nice woman. It's just like a wheelchair, only much more fun. It's just a wheelchair that shits. Don't worry about it. It might bite, too, so watch out. You've never been bitten by a wheelchair. It's just a wheelchair you put apples in the front. It's going to be great.

Oh, man. bitten by a wheelchair it's just a wheelchair you put apples in the front it's gonna be great oh man so that's ymca 4-h horseback riding program for the disabled and a volunteer with the county's historical society yeah uh she's also a sailor she sails gardens and also is an accomplished equestrian as well she rides horses and sails and what is all that upper crusty shit she's sounds wealthy yeah that's what that sounds like to me like that's a she does the things that that nobody does no nobody does who does that yeah well we don't have we don't know anybody that has a goddamn vacation home so never mind uh any of that any of that shit. So, yeah, this is, she's pretty, she does well for herself. And she's very kind. Very, very kind.

Oh, yeah. You can't deny her that. She's a very kind, very nice woman. I mean, no one has a bad word to say about her. Girly is top of the line here. here uh she spent the morning that day running errands at the uh uh in easton and attending a one-hour exercise class at the local ymca yeah she's an older lady keeping in shape she was found uh about three o'clock so she had a full day even i mean even on that day she had a full day so she lived alone on a where she was found here uh a 300 acre farm holy so like this is she's

got a lot of she's this is a rural area she's got a lot of property uh she's very active her son said that she was uh she's active but she's also a very private person who avoids publicity yeah which most people don't have to try to avoid publicity because nobody gives a shit people would like try to like oh i'd like to talk to her she's doing wonderful things she's like no no it's just for the good of the disabled children who want to ride horses you know like she's that nice she was a docent at the talbot county historical museum shop and he said i think she's a volunteer who knows shit about the the exhibits and the history and all that stuff. A docent.

Yes. I mean, she knows a lot. So you can't. I don't know how she has time for all this shit. Number one. I'm impressed. That sounds exhausting. It does.

So clearly in her neighborhood, people freak the fuck out when this happens. Like all of her neighbors, a lot of them are also older and wealthier and they are fucking losing it um there's a woman named peggy swan she said this is like two days later she says that whenever an unfamiliar car drives up the the long dirt driveway to her home she cautiously cautiously peering out the door to make sure that her hired hand somebody that works on her farm, isn't too far away. And they can come in and protect her if they have to with a fucking farm implement or something.

Unbelievable. People still, this is a place where people usually leave their doors unlocked during the day and just kind of hang out. So this is not like a, this isn't a place where people were real paranoid about shit. Now they're like, stand by. Well, there's a car driving up. Get ready to murder whoever's in it it's just my uber don't

worry never mind shit it's it's grubhub again fuck i'm sorry i forgot i ordered that i was real hungry my bad i say i know i didn't ask if you wanted anything but um so another woman at a lot of this is about her uh she's freaking out, obviously, because of the because of dead curly. They Maryland State Police officers at this point are still baffled about everything. And that's not helping. And these neighbors at all. Yeah. The it's being described.

One officer described the murder as, quote, brutal, very brutal. So well done, sir. Perfect. It's a knife in a 65 year old's head. That's the best word you can come. That won't scare the shit out of the other old people, huh? Not that 64 is that old, but in 87, 64 was older than 64 is now. 64, now people are running marathons and shit.

Back then, it was, you know, you're slowing down and retiring. People start writing eulogies. Yeah, yeah. Ah, Jesus, I got to get it together. So, at this point, there was 26,000 people in the county in 1987, and 18% of them were 65 or older. Oh, my. There's a lot of people there. A bunch of people feel like they've got a target on their back now.

Yeah. Mrs. Swan, the window looker, she said, quote, it's a tragic thing. She was a very special person. All the neighbors I've talked to are upset. I'm locking my doors. If that can make any difference, and other people will be too, I suspect. So they're all going to be there. There are also calls from local homeowners asking the police to check for prowlers have risen sharply in the last two days.

Obviously, any noise they hear the lieutenant here said Lieutenant Leatherberry. Oh, that sounds like a made-up that sounds like a like a like a male stripper that comes over for a bachelorette party this is lieutenant leatherberry and he comes in ladies i've got a noise disturbance and then rips off his pants yeah to a leather thong yeah the music starts up and jesus what's going on she's next thing you know there's a giant cock thrusting at you so uh he says there's considerably uh there's considerable concern in the community particularly when there's no suspects and a feeling that there's a murderer who is still at large and then he ripped his pants off yeah he also just exposed more than his cock by telling him oh by the way we got nothing we got nothing oh dead lady

nothing not a goddamn thing go ahead be scared feel safe okay well uh give us a call though if you see anything another neighbor uh said called it quote more than a little disconcerting that they can't find anyone one of the neighbors said quote this is mr weed here perry weed yeah he said from what i've heard it's puzzling how that sort of violence could occur in such an apparently random way. So often we hear about crimes of passion, but this is so unusual. We don't believe in guns, but it sure makes you rethink the whole thing. So, yeah. The FBI, within three days of this, they call in the FBI's Behavioral Science Investigative support unit here to develop a profile.

They want a profile in two days. Like, it's still the first 48, chief. Like, you need to fucking get witnesses and figure out what you're doing. Talk to some people. What'd you see? Get a tire track. Get something going before you bring in a profiler now. They're possibly on their way out of here.

You may want to find them first before you start worrying about a profile bill. And they're possibly on their way out of here you may want to find them first before you start worrying about a profile bill and they're banking on it they said they had nothing in two days they're like well hope the hope the fbi has something literally they're like i don't know man i mean the fbi don't have it we're just gonna have to chalk this one up to uh maybe aliens took her you read that communion book i mean that sounded pretty good could happen and maybe they dumped it back off again so they said they're banking on that uh one investigator they won't release certain details to the public either obviously they won't release like uh what she was wearing that she had her glasses chain on was a thing that they wouldn't release uh little things like

that that only the killer could know so or accomplices or anybody like that they uh they explained that uh one one of the things from the profile was quote i think this person is from the local area but but that this is a personal feeling i'm not overly convinced that the killer is from any area far away like somebody who knows her basically and maybe doesn't like her so uh there's a reward that goes up maybe that'll do something first it's ten thousand dollars and then friends and relatives chip in more and make it a twenty five thousand dollar reward for the information leading to the arrest it's ten thousand for an arrest and then you get the other fifteen grand after a conviction that's the that's how this

whole uh reward scheme Solid settle up. Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. They said that the kids were saying their mother has all these friends and everybody's willing to help. The son says this, quote, probably part of the reason my mother died was her personality. Being raised in the country, it just didn't instill fear in her seeing a strange car in the driveway. So, yeah, she wasn't that like, you know, she wasn't one of these easily scared.

No, that's the thing. She wasn't easily scared. And if a car drove up, well, maybe it's somebody who needs something like, you know, exactly. Rather than who the fuck is this? You know, I'm closing my blinds. He said my mother was a very youthful person. She died too young. And yet she lived a very full life, which we know that for a fact because i

couldn't keep up with her if i heard that schedule she uh they said that the police have received few calls even about the reward not even bullshit calls we're just not getting anything he said the son says the thing that the police and i are both experiencing is frustration because the case still hasn't been solved i want this person to get caught. Clearly. He said that he's satisfied the police are doing everything that they can, but the longer it goes, the more frustration begins to mount. A couple months go by and nothing happens. You know, it starts to get silly.

The cop who's in charge here said, we're following every lead. We still haven't given up on it. An abundance of people from time to time work on the case. Great. every lead we still haven't given up on it an abundance of people from time to time work on the case okay great can we can we pull this up into a you know concentrated thing here uh he also a police officer said that people are still upset by it which isn't helping and people are you know um they're just it's all fear shit so they're saying like oh maybe it's my brother and stuff like that because they're afraid of everything. He said, one guy said, quote, a few people I've talked to in the area are still alarmed that this type of crime happened here. An arrest will give them a new sense of security.

I'm still confident we'll solve this case. That's it. Go out there and solve it then, Cheek. The son says the police are doing everything that is humanly possible. They are going about it the right way to see what kind of person did this in other words the fbi thing which i mean they brought in the fbi they just didn't go well i mean we got our best feller back there working on it so that's helpful um the investigator said they've ruled out certain individuals of close contact to curly as suspects however they wouldn't specify who that was. They also work with the FBI.

They have a profile at this point. So the murder investigation hasn't produced any clues or suspects, though, still, even with that. And the investigator says, sometimes, sometimes works for you and sometimes works against you. In murder investigation, it usually works against you. You need the shit to be fresh. The daughter uh this is

pucky lippincott is her name that sounds very country club doesn't it this is pucky lippincott she's dressed in white she's very yeah she's like in trading places she's one of those you know what i mean like that's what i picture i'm not insulting her it's just that sound that's what the name sounds like constance fry yeah that's yes very constance fry she said that she was frustrated by the situation which is jesus more understandable could not be uh while the reward has quote brought it all back into focus again the investigation still doesn't have anything she said it drives me crazy if people know something that they really think could help they should call the police but if it's gossip they should be able to figure that out too so uh she said that uh she obviously hopes that the higher reward of 25 000

now will help the only thing police have is they're looking for possibly a driver of a large silver or gray general motors car that was seen near the house near her house at some point that afternoon in the 80s in the 80s that's a very general motors by the way is like 14 brands of cars in the 80s so that's heavy it's uh gmc anything it could be an oldsmobile it could be anything cadillac it's so many there's a lot of these goddamn things um they said that either one or two people may have been in the car also so they a silver car maybe a guy maybe two guys maybe a guy maybe two maybe silver maybe gray maybe two women who knows maybe somebody in the trunk we don't know that's really vague i would say uh they said several local people have been looked at fingerprints found at the scene have

been compared to people who have been arrested on around the area for burglary since the murder, and no match has been found there. One of the scenarios they keep going back to is, you know, they must have found her just as she was coming in. Maybe they came in the door behind her. That's why her keys were still there, you know, kind of shoved her in through the groceries on the— She had her hands full with groceries. Yeah, maybe that's what her keys were still there you know kind of shoved her in through the groceries on the yeah maybe that's what it was so uh no break-ins in the appeared to have happened in the now a year later still no break-ins kind of happened in that area since then so uh one of the uh police officers said a couple of things have come in some anonymously but nothing substantial goes so far so it's getting bad uh it's uh they add more investigators and everything like that they do have one suspect at

one point that they're kind of looking at a guy named david faulkner yeah he's a 22 year old just local ne'er-do-well dipshit and um that's the way they're looking at him and he's a suspect but nothing ever comes of it they look at him they talk to him they look and talk to a lot of people yeah people go i don't know what you're talking about and then you have no evidence unless somebody really feels bad it's really hard to get anybody to say they did anything if you just go in and go we think you did it and you go i didn't do it and you have nothing to go like well your fingerprints are here explain that if you don't have that it's just well i think you did i didn't all right then yeah you fucking blew that interview now what yeah so they don't even a lot of times they don't like to talk to people till they have something on them so they can try to get them in a corner they have nothing to get them in the

corner with it just emboldens them sure so um nothing comes to that so june 87 comes around it's been six months now nothing happened uh they file a police report and in the police report they found uh that they're contacted by a guy named danny uh danny keen okay and in this report it says that uh keen was contacted on january 9, 1987, contacted them. But this doesn't come out till June. He's the guy who reported seeing a silver colored vehicle he believed could possibly be an Olds Cutlass or any other GM car, but maybe an Olds Cutlass. He was taken to the actual murder scene at the time when he showed the officer the location

where he saw the vehicle parked he said it was backed in next to the front porch next to several bushes that um that actually the similar leaves were found in the living room floor of the of the house okay so that matched up they drove him around easton and upon observing a vehicle at the bonanza restaurant he stated it was a vehicle similar to they said we're going to drive around and look for a vehicle at the bonanza restaurant he stated it was a vehicle similar to they said we're going to drive around and look for a car that's a similar model you point out the model what do you just what what do you think what kind of car is it and he they think it might be an old because he pointed to a 77 olds cutlass and he said something like that which just looks

like a big boat right so they said a car yeah that was that so they got all of that together and uh he lived in trap maryland and he was often working as a hunting guide he rented a farm next to curly's house and he often drove by the house but he said he didn't know her at all uh in the afternoon of january 5th between 150 and 155 he drove past the residence he said it was sunny and he was looking at the proper at her property for geese maybe he was going to practice his calling the championships are not gonna right around the corner they're coming in november every year so he said he driven past the house multiple times and he never saw any signs of life there he didn't see anything

going on he said one time he saw or he said on that occasion though he looked at saw some clothes on a line next to and behind her house and thought to himself well somebody does live there he said normally drive by he didn't even think anybody to live there because she just she's quiet she lives alone like there's kids running around she doesn't make a mess everything's tidy she didn't even know people live there uh he said that uh um after the clothesline drew his attention he began looking around and he started he reached the point where some little trees started thinning out and he saw some quote jacked up oldsmobile cutlass supreme backed up against the house so he was out looking for geese in the house and that's

when he noticed oh wow people maybe do live there. And then he saw the car. It's a drag racing car. Yeah, I guess. Well, if it's a 70-something. Yeah, jacked up. I don't know if that meant fucked up. Yeah. Like, that thing's all jacked up.

Yeah. Or if he meant like it's jacked up. Oh, the thing's got a floor on the floor. That thing's ready to go. Yeah, it could go either way with this guy. I don't know. I can't tell. Thing's hot as a pistol.

Oh, man. It's hotter than a $2 guy. I don't know. I can't tell. Thanks. Hot as a pistol. Oh, man. It's hotter than a $2 pistol. I'll tell you what, buddy. So he was like it was backed in, he said. And four days later, he reported this to the police, which is strange to wait that long. They interviewed him there and drove him around Easton, like we said. He found the car that resembled one. February 9th, 87, they hypnotize him oh yeah oh yeah in an attempt to develop by the way

hypnosis is just in an attempt to confuse the fuck out of everybody yeah you need the the patreon this week patreon.com slash grime and sports with the hillside stranglers because there is some crazy multiple multiple personality hypnosis stuff going on there that's just wild that you need to hear about. So anyway, they hypnotized Keene. And a copy of the recording, which they put it on a Betamax in 87, which is a little late for that, was not provided until later on. So the sergeant explained the attempt to get more information at the beginning of that. And he said during hypnosis that he saw a vehicle at the residence approximately 155 on the day of the murder. That's what he said. He denied asking for money in exchange for his

assistance. And he said he never heard another word about it from the cops after all this was over. Now, later on, he'll be asked if a guy named George Merritt was with him when he witnessed the car parked there. And he said he didn't remember anybody being in the truck with him at that time, which is a weird answer. And when confronted with a recording in which he told the police that the guy was with him when he saw the car, he says, quote, I guess he was, you know, so two guys in a truck. So that, yeah. He also said that notwithstanding his inability to recall other circumstances, his observation of the Oldsmobile was memorable because it was the first time he'd seen a car parked there, and the car had a distinctive appearance. It was, quote, jacked up, chrome, she, wow, he calls it a she, quote, jacked up, she had chrome wheels, she had white walls, split grill. Yeah.

Yeah. She was a bad bitch. She was a burner. Yeah. August 18th, 87. He liked her. He liked her. She was pretty.

Almost saw us if it was for sale. I almost went up and just kind of said, maybe you give me your number, sweet mama. August 18th, 1987 comes along and a man named Frank M. Neff, N-E-F-F. He is 35 years old. He lives in Trapp as well. He is arrested for lying to police. According to the charging documents here, the document stated that he told police that he had crucial information concerning the murder of Adeline Wilford. And he made some statements to police concerning the Wilford murder that were not so.

So they ended up arresting him, and they're going to try him for that he's not a viable suspect in the murder they think he's just trying to talk shit and collect reward money so they're charging people for wasting their fucking time with shit like that which is kind of interesting said he's not a viable suspect in any way shape or form the only reason he's charged is because he made up stuff and caused officers to open an investigation over fine he's an asshole that's what he's doing yeah that's what i mean they were uh well because they originally were looking at some other guy and they said they couldn't do anything with him because they said there wasn't enough information presented to go forward with that other case and uh they were like this is you know it's fucking ridiculous basically like he's making

up shit about people to try to get himself out of other shit and stuff like that uh so april 1988 comes along 13 months later no good leads still in this case um nothing uh he says this is a state police trooper uh sam shelly who's interviewed him he was there for the hypnosis of keen he's kind of the guy who's interviewed him, he was there for the hypnosis of Keene. He's kind of the guy who's there for everything. He said, I would say that we are no closer today to making an arrest than we were when this thing first came out. That's a terrible thing to say, but it's true. He said that the police have not turned up any significant leads recently. They said that, quote, this is the most difficult case i've ever seen they said they're still looking for information about a silver or gray general motors car

that's all they got 1990 comes around three years nine zero jimmy um number of years have passed now and the whole thing is still stalled the The son, Charles Curry Wilford, he's publicly imploring the police to please reopen this fucking case. This is ridiculous. I feel like you can get something here. He re-ups the reward. He even says $25,000, $10,000 for info for the arrest, $15,000 for a conviction. Come out of my pocket. I don't give a shit.

But by 1991 1991 when they still have nothing going on they're thinking about maybe submitting it to unsolved mysteries maybe that'll help maybe robert stack can handle this we brought in the fbi john douglas couldn't profile this bitch so let's see if maybe robert stack can help us and uh you know anybody else we can move it around to after that maybe they can make a law and order rip from the headlines, and maybe we can figure that one out. Maybe they'll get it. Maybe the writers. Maybe Dick Wolf can figure this thing out.

I realize we don't have a suspect, but let's at least give it to the America's Most Wanted and see if they can get some groundwork going. Maybe they could just a shadow figure. Maybe they'll find that car. We don't know who the fuck did it, but there's a reward. Yeah. maybe they'll find that car we don't know who the fuck did it uh but there's a reward yeah so there to to sum it up they said they feel like they've got the police got there within minutes of the crime so that's good um the the one guy police officer says this wasn't a case where somebody was killed days or weeks before the body was found we were there within minutes

and still we still haven't been able to find anything they said that uh there's cases all over the county with similarities that have been examined and eliminated. They're trying to connect them to other things. This seems like something that somebody would do more than once. But there's been no other absolutely brutal fucking murders over the course of a burglary like this, like with, you know, a knife stuck in a face like that. Very personal. That's not I did whatever was quickest to get me out of there to subdue this person. Oh, Jesus, no.

They broke numerous knives first. That's what I mean. Knives? That's why it's knives. That's why it sounds personal to me. But in February of this year, they interviewed a suspect in Minnesota, but nothing of significance was found there.

And the investigation was ongoing, and they're considering unsolved mysteries. That's what they said. The case is still open. You know know we'll do what we can a request for a copy of the police report by the star democrat uh the newspaper under the maryland public information act was recently denied by the state super police superintendent as well and um the uh uh this pisses off the kids of Mrs. Wilford here because they're like, I don't give a fuck who solves it.

I don't care if Magnum fucking PI pulls up in a Ferrari and solves it. Do you understand? Give the files to everybody. Fucking solve it. Obviously, there's shit that they can't give out, but they could redact certain details. Figure it out.

Somebody solve the goddamn thing when you're this far out it's not a matter of uh you know territory or respect anymore it's been years i don't give a shit if fucking a hero i don't care if poirot comes in here and solves it solve the fucking case doesn't matter so uh year 2000 comes along oh my god 13 years it's been 13 fucking years imagine how angry you would be if you're a family member that it has been 13 years and they don't have they have a dick they have nothing nothing to go on a window sill and uh and a dead grandma and nothing to match and your dead mom dead grandma i know nothing and they're just like i mean we thought about unsolved mysteries i don't know what else could we do by now robert stack is retired i mean

shit he could be dead by now we don't know so they do by 2000 they develop three suspects they develop three suspects one of them was a person they originally looked at and dismissed or didn't have enough on or whatever the fuck, but wasn't a major player in the whole thing. That was a man named David Faulkner. David Faulkner, who was 22 at the time of the murder, now 35, obviously. Now they look at him again. They're also looking at two others. They're looking at a guy named Jonathan Smith, who John Smith. You can't get a more.

She's somehow how they found him for fuck's sake. He was 17 at the time of the murder. And another man, Ray Earl Andrews, who by the year 2000 is Ray Earl Andrews senior. He has a junior, which we know isn't good, but he's Ray Andrews. He was 16 at the time of the murder. and that's who they're looking at right now. So guys who are 29, 30, and 35 at the moment, basically. In April of 2000, a witness told investigators that he had been with Faulkner and Jonathan Smith the day that Ms. Wilford was killed.

Jonathan Smith the day that Ms. Wilford was killed. Okay. This witness said that Faulkner and Jonathan Smith went into the home to steal property, to rob it. And this young man, by the way, I'll just tell you, this secret witness is Ray Andrews, the kid who was 16 at the time. So the alleged third here. Yeah.

He said he stood outside the home. He saw a vehicle pull into the driveway he said several minutes later faulkner and jonathan smith came running out of the home he said that jonathan smith had blood all over his clothes and uh he said jonathan smith later told him that he and faulkner killed the woman in the house and police said the witness also i the witness is andrews here uh physically identified wilford's home as the house and police said the witness also i the witness is andrews here uh physically identified wilford's home as the house so but i mean that anybody that was in the paper the address so anybody could have i could have went to that fucking house i know the address so stupid so the witness like i said is ray andrews and uh he's this would lead the detectives to this whole circle of people.

And they said that another witness said that they saw Jonathan Smith and Faulkner and a third person. This is not Andrew. Somebody else saw from the outside in close proximity to Ms. Wilford's house the day of the murder. This is what their new witness said. They said Smith was covered in in blood they also say that so in march of 2001 i believe here or 2000 uh detectives intercepted they're going to call it intercepted but it's a wiretap yeah basically they wiretap uh a deal here uh where a conversation uh and we'll talk about that in a second because we'll find out more about that because we have a special surprise for everybody out there. But what have these guys been

doing since the murder? I'd love to know. Okay. Well, Faulkner and Smith have had multiple encounters with the criminal justice system here. Faulkner recently came off probation in a 96 case in which he pleaded guilty to battery. Very nice. According to the DA or the district court records, Faulkner was charged that year with custodial child abuse and battery. Oh, good Lord. He's beating kids.

I hope it's his own kid at least. I mean, that's not that that's better, but I did not beaten up other people's kids. At minimum, he's a chicken shit. Yeah. Bad enough to beat your own kids, but you don beating up other people's kids. At minimum, he's a chicken shit. Yeah. Bad enough to beat your own kids, but you don't touch other people's kids. That's another level of fucking nuts. You know what I mean?

Like, geez, that one didn't even come out of you. What the fuck right do you think you have to hit that one? Didn't like the way he was eyeballing me. The child abuse charge was dropped by prosecutors, and he ended up pleading guilty to battery. That was part of the deal. He's given four years suspended sentence and placed on three years probation according to the court records his probation ended november 26 1999 in march 97 he also pleaded guilty to providing alcohol to a minor and was fined 200 why is he around so many kids that's what i'm wondering i don't know what the

fuck going on um welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. us in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and

dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Less than three years after that, there was warrants for Faulkner and Smith. They were living together at the time, but warrants for them were issued on November 7th, 89. And for other shit here,

this was a malicious destruction of property that they did together, basically. Three weeks after being charged, Smith and Faulkner were also charged with three more counts of malicious destruction of property of under $300. I don't know if they're fucking up mailboxes or who knows. 22 is too old to be fucking up mailboxes. Burning shit in people's lawns. Yeah.

He was like 24 at that time, the Faulkner guy. Jesus, that's way too old to be doing that shit. He should have a job and be tired at the end of the day. Way too tired for destruction of strangers property. He should be tired, drunk or stoned by then and not interested in that shit. He was fined $50 and given a one month suspended sentence on each count and placed on 18 months probation. That ended in 91. In May 1990, Smith pleaded guilty to three counts of malicious destruction of property under $300.

He was sentenced to a year in jail on each count, but with all but 15 days suspended. So he only went to jail for 15 days. He was placed on probation for two years. Smith also pleaded guilty to another malicious destruction of property charge in 1990. He was fined $100 and given a one-month suspended sentence. And he later pleaded guilty on March 14, 1990, to animal cruelty. Good. Kid beaters and animal cruelty people.

What the fuck is wrong with these two? One of each, too. Yeah, it's not even one guy. It's a piece of shit that just beats everything. They're both awful. And was sentenced to 90 days in the jail at that point, the county jail. two. It's not even one guy. It's a piece of shit. Yeah. They're both. They're both awful. So, uh, and was sentenced to 90 days in the, in the jail at that point,

the County jail in February 97, he pleaded guilty to having a loaded shotgun in his vehicle and was fine. $60 for that. So now where do they get any information besides from Ray Andrews? Well, how do they know to look there? Well, uh,

there's a woman here. Smith has an aunt. Yeah. Has a hell of a family member here. This would not happen in an Italian family, by the way, I would say. No, your aunt would never tell on you for shit. Never. This just would not happen.

But this woman, Beverly Hadaway is her name. Sergeant John Bollinger met with her on January 14th, 2000. That's when this started. That's how she they got the information to go to Andrews and all that. She told him that her nephew and not only her nephew, but Faulkner and two others had committed this crime. She said that approximately two years after the incident that that Smith confessed to her that he killed Adeline Wilford. So she's hung on to the ship for 11 years. For 11 years, she's saying.

Yeah. According to this report of the interview, Hadaway told Bollinger that on the afternoon of the Wilford murder, she was driving with her friend Thomas Marshall on Black Dog Alley near Easton near the intersection of black dog alley and kingston road she claimed she saw her nephew jonathan smith david faulkner and ray andrews exit a cornfield on foot uh back onto black black dog alley at which time she came to a stop according to hadaway she saw smith's shirt had blood spatters on it and that he had blood smears on both arms she asked smith where the blood had come from and smith said a dog had tried to bite him and he killed the dog good lord that's his excuse of i'm i didn't do anything wrong i just killed a strange dog imagine that that's a wild enough story if i see a strange dog and it like even if it's going

to try to attack me i don't think i should kill this dog ever like i think i should get away from this dog in the event maybe i'll kick it if it's a strange dog that's trying to maul me and bite if it's biting me and i'm gonna go i'm gonna get away from me but i'm not gonna kill it that's crazy in the event that you rip it limb from limb with your bare fucking hands and the moment it happened i'm the first person that rolls up on you with smears and spatter. Holding a dog leg in each hand. You're going to go. I will remind you every month.

Do you remember that time I came upon you with blood all over you? You said you killed a dog. You said you murdered a dog and that was the excuse of why that was fine. Are you going to tell me the real story of what you murked that day? Right? Jesus. What are you doing? What the hell is that? What the real story of what you merked that day. Right? Jesus. What are you doing? What the hell is that?

What the hell is wrong with you? What kind of person do I surround myself with? Is that a... No, a dog foot is not a good luck charm. That's disgusting. You're a monster. So... The fall's too big.

According to Hathaway, before she left, before she just went, alright, and went on her way, she saw a pickup truck approach from the rear. She said Smith, Faulkner, and Andrews got into the truck, which then drove away. According to Hathaway, she resumed driving on Black Dog Alley and moments later heard sirens blaring

and saw several police vehicles and an ambulance turn onto Kingston Road. So her story is they walked from a cornfield away from this covered in blood and hopped in some escape truck that someone drove up there. That's her story. Where does the Oldsmobile come in then? Right.

So we have a car. That's what I mean. So either the Keene guy or her, one of them isn't correct because they didn't leave the car there when they got there the car was gone so i don't think they killed her left through the cornfield then another car pulled up walked in and went oh shit they already got her and then they left in the car and then they hopped that that's yeah so we have two separate stories so uh hadaway here she agrees to wear a wire okay and on april 11 2000 she records a conversation with jonathan jonathan smith her nephew that occurred in a shed behind her house where most

conversations of any value occur during that conversation she asked him about the day she quote saw him on kingston road when that old woman got murdered and you told me a dog bit you and you stabbed it. Remember that? That was about 10 years ago? Remember that whole thing? Oh, boy. So, well, you know what? Let's see.

She asked who killed the woman, and while laughing, he said he didn't know. And then from there, let us go into another edition of Small Town Murderpiece Theater. On today's Murderpiece Theater. On today's Murderpiece Theater show, Jimmy will be playing a young ruffian who is

who the police are trying to attempt to entrap in his own murdery, bloody trap. So yeah, in a hillbilly snare. We are going to play White Trash Clue now. And I shall be

playing the this particular ruffian's aunt who in the name of justice and all that is good in the world decides I will wear a wire to take down my nephew. And for that reason and that reason only. Just for justice.

So let us begin. Her wire consists of a jolly green giant can of green beans in her bra with a speaker wire. Sitting on the shelf. That's the thing. It probably just could have had a boom box sitting there. It's the shed. Who knows? So like we said, she asked who killed the woman.

And Smith stated while laughing, he didn't know. there it's the it's the shed who knows so like we said she asked who killed the woman and smith stated while laughing he didn't know and then this exchange occurred let us begin all right i'm gonna ask you senate this by the way the exact grammar in english we're going exactly off the transcript exactly off the thing so we're not like making it rednecky they are doing it themselves all right i'm gonna ask you something i want you i want to i want to know you told me once i'm gonna ask you again because i heard something in the wind you know that day i seen you on kingston road when that old woman got murdered and you told me the dog bit you and you stabbed it who killed the old woman you you told me you did it i don't know i. I think Dave had done it. Was he wearing your coat?

Huh? Why did Dave have your coat on that day? I don't know. You're laughing. Why did he? I don't know. I just wanted to know before I died. I always thought that Dave had done it. You? You say that you did.

Why are you laughing? I didn't do nothing like that. Why were you in the field with blood all over you in no coat you said that blood came off a dog but i think that you held her and david killed her or one of the three you done it they never found out yet have they i know that's why i want to know before i die i seen you uh did you did anyone ever did i did i ever tell anybody you know i ain't gonnadamn, you're my blood. I just wanted to know if you'd done it.

I didn't really think you did. I think crazy-ass David did. They could have. It's a secret when one person knows it ain't a secret when two people know. Well, all three is no. What? There's only two of us. It was you and Ray and David.

Ray wasn't there until after it was over. Where was he? Down the road. Ray was right with you in the goddamn field. That was after it was all done with. What the hell did you kill her for, or did you kill her for? I don't know. I can't remember.

Jonathan, you're lying because you're laughing. I can't remember. Why do you think I'd tell anybody? I ain't never going to tell anybody anybody i ain't never gonna tell anybody and i ain't never told nobody in 12 goddamn years i just want to know she had money huh that was a long time i don't even remember it no more i just wondered if faulkner did it or you tell me i ain't gonna tell nobody i just want to know do it You didn't do it. You done it. You said you'd done it before.

Why'd you kill her? I knew she had money. You knew she had money? She had money. But you didn't get none. Mm-mm. You did get it. Mm-hmm.

What the hell'd you do with it, Jonathan? It must not have been much because you still walked to Cambridge and hitchhiked or went with David. You can't spend it all in one pile. It's gone now. Spend a little bit here, a went with David. You can't spend it all in one pile. It's gone now. Spend a little bit here, a little bit there. You can't spend that much. That's how people talk. I figured it wasn't enough to buy two Ford Explorers.

And you didn't do nothing with it but just pissed it away. Mm-hmm. Did they get any? Mm-hmm. We split it three ways. Three ways. How much did you get? $60,000?

Mm-hmm. Split it three ways. Three ways. How much did you get? $60,000? Mm-hmm. When you said that day, what did you tell me that that bitch bit me and I stabbed it? You told me a dog.

I knew damn well no dog blood could get like that. Why did David have your coat? He got cut. He got cut so he put your coat on? He didn't have no coat? Got too much blood on it. How did he get cut? He cut himself. He cut his own self? Just about. That blood on it. How did he get cut? He cut himself.

He cut his own self? Just about. That's what it looked like. She was asleep. She was asleep? Mm-hmm. She woke up. Well, how did he get the knife?

Out of the house. Well, did he cut her? Mm-hmm. So you both stabbed her? Uh-huh. How did you get there? You told me that day somebody dropped you off and you had to go deliver something or something and they were coming back? I don't know.

That day you told me, I thought i thought no he ain't done it that stupid david if anybody he done it if there's enough money i'll do it enough money well it's all right if you don't get caught i won't get caught that concludes a presentation of small Town Murderpiece Theater. What is your favorite word? That happened. That was a conversation. In a shed. Between two people. In a shed.

Two adults had that conversation. Two adults closely related. One of them's father's sister. Whole lot of uh-huh, mm-hmm. After that, they go, well, that's lock solid. Conclusive. inclusive yeah that sounds like he said about four different things by the way in there um so at this point they bring all three of them in and want to talk to them yeah the police bring the andrews faulkner smith in so they bring in faulkner and andrews to the barracks here they're advised of the rights and all sorts of shit like that yeah um he said

that that originally they seemed almost happy to be answering their questions and they said that uh smith his whole demeanor changed when the police officer asked him if he and faulkner had been involved in any criminal activity together he said his whole demeanor changed at that point they said he became somewhat withdrawn and dropped his head and became very evasive and fidgety in his seat. He denied any involvement with the murder of a woman. He acknowledged his conversation with his aunt, Hathaway, there, but he claimed he admitted involvement in the murder because he wanted Hathaway to think he was a tough person.

Because I always need my aunt to think I'm cool. I need her intimidated by me yeah i mean she's gonna make a move otherwise you know how that goes at christmas she brings some bitch-ass gifts i figure if she's scared of me she can bring me some nice shit if it was his cellmate that's a fine story but not his aunt jesus christ i tell i told her last year bring that green bean casserole she didn't bring shit so i was like you know if i tell her i'll murder people she knew to bring it that's the thing i told her, bring that green bean casserole. She didn't bring shit. She didn't bring shit. So I was like, you know, if I tell her I murder people. She knew to bring it. That's the thing.

I told her. You bring that green bean. She asked me two weeks before, and I said green bean casserole. Then she asked me two days before, like I didn't tell her two weeks before that. 11 damn days ago. Like, oh, I didn't remember. That way she could set up her faulty memory. That's her defense.

That's what I think happened. So is that the goddamn gel mold? No. She memory that's that's my her defense that's that's what i think happened so the goddamn gel mold no she got that i said hell no you ain't gonna bring that into my goddamn house i said green bean casserole bitch i murk old ladies like you i broke that jello mold on the goddamn floor let the fucking dog lick it up buddy that's how i do my business i say you take that shit out my goddamn house and now she's trying to say i did a murder maybe i'll try that with your aunt you'll get some green bean next year that's right so bollinger and another officer interviewed smith again later in the day bollinger advised him of his miranda rights gave him a copy of the form to follow along as they read to him that's what they do hey. Hey, let's do this together. Before he asked any questions, Smith volunteered his narrative of what happened, and Bollinger listened for several minutes without interrupting. The floor is yours, my friend.

He said that he and David Faulkner broke into the residence, but Andrew stayed outside. He said that while he and Faulkner were in the house, she returned home as Wilford. And and when when Smith noticed she was standing in front of him and screaming, that's when he noticed David Faulkner was stabbing her. I didn't even know that was going on. He said that Wilford was wearing a blue coat and had glasses on a chain around her neck which is not something they released to the public and that she was fighting and moving her arms about and as faulkner was stabbing her she fell back onto smith getting blood on his shirt so the sergeant asked if smith had himself had stabbed ms wilford and at that point he said you needed an attorney i'll say i mean I'll say I participated, but...

I will put myself right in the fucking thick of things. Once we start talking about who stabbed who, I think it's time for the law to get involved and to get an attorney going on, because this is ridiculous. I was right there, and you absolutely already have charges, but I will talk to a lawyer. Thank you so much. I'm going to talk to a lawyer. Yeah. Also, Andrews talked to the police.

He told the sergeant that he and Faulkner discussed burglarizing the Wilford house but he did not want to so they told him to stay in the woods and he said 20 minutes after they approached the house he saw a vehicle pull up to the Wilford driveway a few minutes later as we found out before he saw Faulkner ran from the house

Smith had blood on the shirt the three men ran through the woods and fields until they reached Black Dog Alley where they saw Mrs. Hadaway driving down the street. So he corroborates that connection. He said that Hadaway had asked Smith why he had blood on his shirt and

that he said he'd been attacked by a dog. So that all gets backed up. They also said they went to the house at that point to Smith's house where they changed clothes. Andrews said initially that he did not get a ride to Smith's house. And when they said there's no possibility, if there was a possibility they got a ride, he said he didn't think so, but he was not sure because that part of the day wasn't clear in his mind. What? Okay. So Smith and Faulkner removed money from their pockets, according to him, and divided it up. The next day, Smith told him that the woman in the house was dead and that Ray Andrews should never tell anybody about this.

Keep your fucking mouth shut. So anyway. So they have to talk about there's tapes of interviews between, not interviews, but conversations between Bollinger, the officer, and Hathaway. And Sergeant Bollinger became the lead investigator in 1999 on this case. He said that he spoke to Ms. Hathaway several hundred times before the trials eventually will come up here. One of the reasons was that Ms. Hathaway contactedant bollinger in 2001 was to request that the criminal charges pending against her grandson be dropped this is a totally separate person landon janda i have no idea what the hell he did but when questioned whether uh later on they asked

the sergeant whether she was a did she request this in a quote aggressive manner bollinger said that miss hadaway quote did everything in an aggressive manner, which I think is great. She's a tough one. She's a tough one. At some point between February 2nd, 2001, Sergeant Bollinger participated in a meeting at this Talbot County State Attorney's Office with Marie Hill, the prosecutor on the case, and another prosecutor there. And Sergeant Bollinger asked the prosecutor to drop the charges against her grandson, he said, but the prosecutor said no.

So Sergeant Bollinger recorded some of his conversations with Hathaway because they were, quote, directly involved with his homicide investigation, he said. So in addition to the testimony on the recorded conversations, Boller also identified handwritten notes discussing all this shit uh one note from his interview of uh of corporal cooper read beverly had a way as bad a woman as talbert county has ever seen rather lie than tell the truth that's what another uh that's uh what another officer said about her talking to her so

she's like the mamie white of yes that's what it sounds like about her talking to her. She's like the Mamie White of now. Yes, that's what it sounds like. Driving around the back roads in her truck, fucking stirring up trouble. Wow. A note from an interview with Captain Benjamin Blue read, quote, either get out of trouble or get one favor up. No information is free from Beverly. She's like, well well i got information but i also got a grandson in trouble yeah you know shit like that or just money favor that's it um

she said he said that uh sergeant bollinger stated that his colleague's statements were simply their opinion not part of his investigation but he did assert that in his investigation what hadaway told him did turn out to be accurate and true based on other people noting that he had given her account uh him her account of what happened on that day multiple times and she'd always been consistent that she saw them on black dog alley immediately following the murder and uh he said that the veracity of her statements were bolstered by the fact that she came forward earlier than other people the accuracy of her description of the events of the day, her correct description of the order in which the police vehicles and the ambulance responded to the scene. One of the conversations occurred February 2nd, 2001.

Sergeant Bollinger told Hadaway that the state was not going to drop the charges against her grandson. He tried to clarify whether she was still going to come and tell the truth after that. And Hathaway replied, quote, I'm going to come in and tell the truth, but I don't think the truth is going to be what it was going to be, what it's going to want to be known. So now she's saying she's going to say something different. She Sergeant Bollinger then stated that he could ask the state to reconsider its position regarding the grandson after the trial. Maybe that'll work. So she said, quote, Well, it won't be no need to ask after the trial's over because the

defense counsel is going to win hands down. There'll be doubt and everybody and everybody on the jurors minds. And I'm the one that's going to roll the iceberg down there and watch that son of a bitch hit everybody in that fucking courtroom. Do you think I'm kidding, John? I'm not. You can go get the newspaper to start printing three people found innocent. And I've just got one little piece of paper and it can all be had with one word that nobody knows.

But I know. And I got the paper and I got all the proof and one word. Just one word out of the English language will let all three of them walk. And for my grandson, you don't think i'll still use that fucking word what is that word just i'll tell tell him that didn't happen so the cop laughed and she said you think i'm kidding and he said no i know you're not kidding you just make me laugh sometimes and she said that she subsequently stated that one word was crazy yeah she meaning that she was crazy this is a mamie white thing she said that she then produced a document stating

she's not stating from a doctor stating that she has an extensive emotional and psychological problem we already know i think that was we didn't need that yeah we didn't that was without saying here so they asked bollinger whether he interpreted her statement as a threat and he said that he didn't he said that quote i laughed at her then i laughed listening to it again i heard a hundred i heard it this a hundred times so no it wasn't a threat they asked if she was lying when she made the statement and he said quote beverly just like to blow off steam you call it lying i disagree with your reference on that she wasn't lying to me she'd blow off steam that's what she did um so yeah and she was just teasing

and just just joshing just being in charge of the police that's all showing them i'm gonna i'm gonna step ahead of you she wants to be yeah she's definitely wants to be have a one-up on everybody so she suggested that he go over to uh over the over the prosecutor's head to the boss to the state attorney to get the charges against her grandson dropped and he said he would try that so he's going along with this like crazy they said that uh numerous statements that day recorded were made indicating that mrs Hadaway had access to case files regarding the Wilford murder. Wow. That's fucked up. Yeah.

Because then there's different things. For example. That's not public knowledge yet. The newspaper put in a request for it and was denied. Sergeant Bollinger stated that he, quote, got the stuff she wanted him to get, that she could see the pictures if she wanted to, and got her two pages of a letter and a drawing of a ring. And Ms. Hadaway indicated the defense counsel gave her these things illegally, such as a report, which then she underlined. So she got it from them, then she brought that to the defense, was like, see?

So she's just playing both sides. Bollinger testified later on that he didn't allow Ms. Hadaway to look through his investigative file, but he did show her some photographs of the Wilford property and a letter. Although it was not common practice to do this, he said that he showed Ms. Hadaway the evidence at the direction of the state's attorney's office. So they asked whether Bollinger, why he would show a witness who was not at the murder scene pictures of the property. And he said she wanted to see them. He couldn't recall whether he showed her an illustration of the ring, which they did.

He did note that one of the lawyers here had allowed Andrews, his lawyer, had allowed Hathaway to view everything he had in his possession. And he did not know whether she had access to everything or not, but he did know that she had access to his files. So she's talking a lot to Andrews' attorney, which is funny because they're the two people with stories that match up. You know what I'm saying? So that makes that less solid to me, less concrete. Sergeant Bollinger identified her handwriting on a seven page police report written by Sergeant Gamble.

And on 2000, that detailed an interview with Mr. Andrews, Ms. Hathaway wrote lie a number of times on the report. That's what she was making her own notations. So they said that February, 2001 conversation between Hathaway and Bollinger also indicated that Hathaway had a conversation with Mr. Andrews before she will eventually testify at trial.

She'll go visit him in jail. She had gone to the jail with his defense counsel and talked to him. she had done that um he didn't inform the trial council of this that other the smith's trial council that the witness and the other witness are conspiring that's crazy that's that's not okay but he kept it because this is a 13 14 year old fucking murder case and they're going to solve it so bollinger had another conversation with hadaway which was also recorded. This refers to another thing where he tells her that the state decided to basically put her grandson's case on the shelf. They're not going to prosecute it right now. So that was a big deal.

The guy who was assigned to prosecute the case testified later on that the state attorney general ordered him to dismiss those charges, telling him that beverly hadaway was giving him trouble and in the grand scheme of things the murder case was more important so she strong-armed them into dropping shit so it works i mean jesus however though he said that he did not recall having a conversation with sergeant bollinger about miss hadaway in any time frame in that regard. Yeah, but the problem is that looks shitty. It looks fucking terrible. So Hathaway said she wanted the decision in writing, but Bollinger said that's not going to happen.

Be happy they're not fucking prosecuting it. Yeah, because if we put it in fucking writing, then it's a guarantee that that's the reason we're stopping it. Yeah. He said to her, quote, I don't know what they're going to do, but the only thing we want and protecting what we're trying here, our interest is all we're doing. We have three murder trials coming up. So he he put them in the case file, all these recorded conversations he had with her.

And it went to the sent Maryland State Police homicide files. And that's how that worked. So he said that, or I'm sorry, May of 2000, Jonathan Smith's dad is arrested for threatening Hathaway. This is fucking great. Oh, boy. This is great. This is awesome. Full family feud. That's a good, I like this guy already.

What are you, fucking nuts? It's his sister. I will fucking give you a wet willy like you've never had before. Never mind back when we were kids, he is arrested, charging with threatening his sister, who's a witness against his son. Oh, boy. William. Yeah. William Donald Smith, senior, because he's got a junior to the all juniors.

He's 68 years old at this time. His charge with intimidating a witness and obstructing justice bond hearing was held. He this is amazing. According to the charging papers, his sister was the witness, obviously. And three days after his son's arrest, this guy allegedly verbally threatened Hathaway. He told her, you'll never live to testify against Jonathan. Oh, my. Jesus Christ.

That's a threat indeed. That's a threat. I'll murder you. That was over the phone. Later that same day, Hathaway had a conversation with William Smith. This is the father, which again, he threatened her. He told Hathaway that she would never make it to the witness stand alive. He's pretty consistent in what he fucking says here.

He allegedly was, Hathaway said she was in fear for her safety as a result of these statements. He allegedly was, Hathaway said she was in fear for her safety as a result of these statements. And during the bail review, Smith asked what he could do to keep Hathaway from calling his home, which she probably shouldn't be calling someone who's threatening her anyway. So in 2001, another thing comes about now. Okay, this is before the trial, mind you. The prosecutors and everybody have access to this. Something from 1991 comes out. A man named James Brooks Jr. They have him in police reports implicating other people in the murder.

He's implicating a relative of his who is Tyrone Brooks, Ty Brooks, he goes by, and his friend, a Mr. William Clarence, quote, Boozy Thomas. His name is Boozy Thomas. Boozy. OK, that tells you a lot about this crew. So Brooks said he he grew up in Trap, Maryland, and he was a longtime friend of Thomas of Boozy Thomas there. friend of Thomas, of Boozy Thomas there. And he said at some point around that time, he contacted Maryland State Police and said that Boozy Thomas had told him that he and Ty Brooks had murdered Ms. Wilford.

This James Brooks said, consistent with his testimony, they made several statements, this guy, they were always consistent with the police. He said that Thomas confessed to him in late 1989, early 1990. Mr. Thomas told him he borrowed his uncle's car to get to Ms. Wilford's house. Ms. Wilford might have wrote down the tag number of the car when she came home that day. She sat outside for a second. And Mr. Thomas instructed him not to tell anyone about this, obviously. And Mr. Thomas instructed him not to tell anyone about this, obviously, when asked if he could recall when Boozy, Mr. Boozy said said where the victim had been stabbed during the murder.

He said, I don't remember. It might have been in the back, which isn't what happened. But who knows? He didn't say he was there. So in more detail, the court ends up later on, because this comes up during trial, the court will sustain an objection to the question of whether he had another individual, whether he, the guy testifying, had named another individual him that another person was with him when Ms. Wilford was murdered. And Brooks said he was acquainted with Ty Brooks. They're not related. I'm sorry. They're just both named Brooks.

And that Thomas and Ty Brooks were boozy. Thomas and Ty Brooks were brother in law and knew each other. So got it. He knew boozy boozy knew the other guy that way so counsel for faulkner uh moved to admit this into evidence obviously and the statement he explained that he and thomas this is what brooks said there uh they were on a a drinking binge one night and that's when boozy thomas a drinking binge for Boozy, confessed to killing Miss Wilford as follows. Quote, he said that him and a guy named Ty Brooks were in her house stealing and the lady came home on them. He had borrowed his sister's car and she noticed the car parked near the house and wrote down the tag number of the car before she entered the house.

He took a butcher knife, I believe, and hid behind the kitchen door. When she came in, he stabbed her to death and left her for dead. Boy, oh boy. before she entered the house. He took a butcher knife, I believe, and hid behind the kitchen door. When she came in, he stabbed her to death and left her for dead. Boy, oh boy. Okay, so that's it there. The court admitted the statement over the state's objection, but it ruled that it would not admit

the words Ty Brooks to be consistent with its earlier ruling of some other person they wouldn't identify as another suspect. So when the counsel for Faulkner asked James Brooks about his motivation for contacting the police, he testified, quote, I was strung out on drugs. I was trying to cash in on the reward. He then also admitted that he'd been previously convicted in a number of offenses, including uttering a false document, taking a car without the owner's permission and various thefts. So when asked whether there was any motivation for him to be testifying here today, other than to tell the truth, he said, yeah, man, I mean, I was told to do what's right and

turn it over to God. Okay. That's why he's there. He says, now, what about Ty Brooks and Boozy Thomas? I'd love to know who the fuck are these people. So they introduce all of this thing. Ty Brooks has an extensive criminal history, including breaking and entering and burglary charges all through 1986. Consistent as fuck.

Yeah, and this happened first week of 87, so a run. The state stipulated that Ty Brooks and Boozy Thomas were not incarcerated in Maryland at the time of the murder either. Both of them were out on the street. The Smith attempted to call Ty Brooks as a witness and introduce a portion of Ty Brooks's interview. This is later on. In the interview, Ty Brooks admitted that he committed numerous offenses in Easton, but he did not recall going to Ms. Wilford's house, stating that murder was not his M.O. Wilford's house, stating that murder was not his M.O.

As explained later on, the court ends up sustaining the state's objection and they don't admit this into evidence. So also they introduced a statement of charges that on March 12th, 1987, Ty Brooks. Well, after when he was taken into a custody at one time, a custody, just a random custody. He was observed riding as a passenger in a 1982 blue oldsmobile oh yeah uh so also later on an investigator will notice that ty brooks had access to multiple vehicles but none were registered to him at the time so if you looked at him and said oh he doesn't have a car registered, you move on. But he had access to a shitload of vehicles. Now, the palm prints, palm prints, other suspects who had not had their palm prints taken basically included.

And this is coming from the defense, a prison escapee who was reported by a neighbor of the victim as a possible suspect. Hey, you should check that guy. Hey, you should check that guy. The minister of Ms. Wilford's church, who, quote, had scratches on his face the day following the homicide and who allegedly was extremely upset over her death, even though he hardly knew her. Didn't know her. Overly upset. One of those guys. Yes. And inserting himself into the investigation. One of those guys.

himself into the investigation one of those guys a man who allegedly told his employer that his sister's boyfriend and the boyfriend's brother had committed the homicide but denied making a statement when questioned by police he said i didn't say that a man implicated via anonymous letter a confidential source who later became a suspect when it was discovered that he was quote very paranoid uh and allegedly stabbed walls and countertops with a knife to frighten his estranged wife and attempt to, quote, burn his wife's house down while she was still inside. Let's check on that guy. Let's check on him. Also, a former boarder of Ms. Wilford, who was implicated by a confidential source.

He used to live there. He would know where shit is, wouldn't have to ransack a fucking place and might hate her. That's something. I mean, it's something to look at. I'm not saying anybody did anything and a man who allegedly told a cellmate that quote he was a hired killer and just completed a job on the shore for ten thousand dollars which include killing an older woman on a farmhouse so these are the people who they didn't compare palm prints against that's a lot of people that's a lot of people yeah they just didn't want to find

that now these palm prints don't match andrews faulkner or smith oh don't match any of them oh boy that's a problem i will tell you who they do match in a minute though okay now ray andrews pleads guilty and agrees to testify against others wow okay he was 16 at the time of the crime he is uh they allow him to plead guilty to burr for uh to burglary in exchange for testimony uh he is sentenced to you sir may sort of fuck off 10 years right he gets he's gonna be out in like three years basically is what he's gonna do here um if he testifies so uh they said that you know they led him to the house and all that sort of thing and uh you know they said uh that uh sergeant jack mccauley said smith told hadaway about this whole thing and that all matched up so this is going to be a home run if we have

andrews so faulkner and smith both go to trial okay and we'll concentrate well i'm going to kind of kind of mold them into one where it's mainly jonathan smith's trial because the trials went pretty much exactly the fucking same so we'll do that like later on when they have we'll talk about it so late february 2001 this happens here uh during discovery they want to talk about james edward brooks they want to talk about boozy thomas they want to talk about ty brooks they want to talk about all this shit during discovery and uh they they're apparently not not everything that the defense wants to get in gets in they're having a hard time um like person in charge of evidence couldn't recall if there's any audio or video cassettes in her file of interviews of witnesses and this is why it's

hard to try a murder you know 14 years after it happens because people just lose shit yeah well people like in that time people retire or move on other jobs and then different people come in and they're like what's this and they throw it somewhere because it's nothing they're working on. So that's what happens. Why are these panties left here? No, Jesus Christ. These are disgusting. Now I see why they're left here.

So the trial begins. It's a four-day trial. Starts February 26, 2001. They bring in a fingerprint guy, Alexander Menkevich. He's the fingerprint expert for the Maryland State Police Crime Laboratory. He testifies that he did not match any fingerprints left at the scene to any known suspects anywhere. He further explained that a fingerprint is typically left on the surface, why they might not be located, you know, the typical shit here. The length of time a fingerprint can be on a surface.

He said that although fingerprint DNA and hair samples were taken from Smith, those samples did not match any of the evidence police had collected at the crime scene. Okay, so no DNA. That goes for Faulkner, too, who Hadaway said that Smith said had been cut and lost blood. His blood should be there. But yeah, his DNA is not there though. Okay. So that's a problem.

It's going to be an issue and palm prints and shit like that. DNA, by the way, DNA tests of fingernail scrapings, cause she's a fighter from Adeline Wilford showed the material came from her and another person. She had her own stuff. She had somebody else's stuff on there.

Forensic chemist for the Maryland State Police Crime Laboratory testified about DNA tests she conducted on the whole thing, and she said the results of the tests and fingernail scrapings provided a partial profile of Wilford as well as some types from another person. The additional types that were obtained in the test did not match Faulkner smith or ray andrews under her fingernails whoever's under the fingernails i believe is probably who

you're looking for and if it's the same guy who matches the palm prince slam dunk fucking slam dunk but so far we got neither on these which i don't like if you have people on trial for something now another crime lab employee testified he compared a hair fragment collected from Wilford's sweater with a sample pulled from Faulkner's hair. But the results are inconclusive because the hair did not have a root on her sweater. So it was just two white guy hairs. Didn't work. Witnesses come in here.

Andrews, the star witness, obviously pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and burglary and got 10 years. He said he stood in the wooded area, watched the car pull up. He jerked himself. He fucking stuck his finger up his ass, whatever he did over here. He said he could see from the left side of the house where he stood. The driveway was and but the driveway was along the right side of the home. So he fucked up in his testimony several times and stuff like that. Left side, right side.

Well, long time ago, whatever. Sergeant John Bollinger accurately described what Wilford was wearing the day she was killed after Ray Andrews described what he was told. All that kind of shit. So there's women as well. Two women testify that they saw Smith Faulkner and Andrews on Black Dog Alley the night of the day of the murder. Susan Fitz you is one is Beverly Hathaway obviously the other is the woman riding with her

Susan Fitz you and she says that Hathaway she was helping her with her vintage clothing business or some shit Hathaway had a vintage clothing business she said all three men were coming out of the hedgerow when she saw them all three men had blood on them she said all three men were coming out of the hedgerow when she saw them all three men

had blood on them she said and that smith said he had killed a deer which is different than what hadaway said he said which she said it was a dog which one is it so as big as a deer and yeah and the thing is too as a huge dog man that's why i had to kill it it was scary it would have killed me the rack on this german shepherd the problem is 14 years, you don't know if the story is inconsistent or you just remember dog and deer different because it's been 14 fucking years and other things have happened in your life. And you might have had kids and lost jobs and you've done a lot of shit. And you're like, I don't know. He said he killed a deer or something. Yeah.

I don't fucking know. She saw some movies since then. That's what I mean. Who knows? Yeah. So after they finished talking, she said Hathaway drove away and the three men started walking along so no pickup truck in her story now came and picked her up because that's different than hadaway and they're in the same car so which one is right later that night she saw all three men at smith's grandmother's house they were in the living room fighting arguing and wrestling she said like 12 one guy's 22 years old what are you doing hanging out with 16 year olds wrestling in the living room fighting, arguing and wrestling. She said like 12.

The one guy is 22 years old. What are you doing? Hanging out with 16 year olds wrestling in the living room. This is ridiculous. I picture no one with a shirt on is the problem. That's the thing. Yeah. Fitz, you also said that she told her account to state troopers.

Thursby Cooper was the trooper trooper Cooper and Royer and another trooper royer sometime after the day but she said the officers didn't seem interested in her story uh hadaway said she gave her thing and she said spots of blood on the shirt he she now said faulkner had blood on his pants from his knees to his white tennis shoes she said andrews did not have any blood on him hadaway also said that faulkner was wearing black gloves that look like women's gloves. She said Smith tried to told her that tried to told her that teach the dog bit him and he killed the dog. So that's her testimony. She also testified, you know, all to the same shit she said before.

She saw them come out. A pickup truck picked them away. She saw them later on splitting up money or whatever the fuck it was. She said she had red dots all around the collar, and that's what made her see the blood that on his sleeves and dots, dots, little spatter. With that kind of murder, though, it would be a bloodbath. It'd be a book. They stuck a knife in her face.

It's a lot, a lot of stab wounds, but just some dots and some smears. She said that at that point, he said that he just killed a dog. She called him a liar, and he laughed and said, yeah, I did it. I killed him because it bit me, and he thought it was funny. That's what he said.

Then he told her that he stabbed the dog, and then another truck pulled in, and they got in the truck. It's her testimony. And she asked him what happened to him later on, and he said that he'd been attacked by a dog again. And he believed that someone was with Hathaway that day. But she was not sure if it was a man or not.

That's what he said later on, which that was the woman, I think, maybe. So Smith and Faulkner didn't talk about what happened. They pulled out their pockets. They had about three, four hundred dollars in cash. Mr. Andrews did not get any of the money is what she says that she witnessed but then later on in the conversation he said we split it three ways when andrews saw a report that on the newspaper faulkner told him to keep quiet they said there was money and a piece of jewelry on the table and they were arguing she heard uh faulkner say ray ain't getting ray you ain't getting no goddamn money and you ain't getting no goddamn

jewelry. You ain't getting shit, Ray. So on cross-examination, Ray acknowledges that in exchange for his testimony, he agreed to enter an Alford plea to the crime of involuntary manslaughter, and the prosecutor would recommend he sentenced to five years. So he might get less. That's the agreement. But then later on, there's going to five years. So he might get less. That's the agreement. But then it's later on, there's going to be the actual sentencing after the trial. He testified, though, that he'd not been promised any financial reward. Isn't it enough to not go to prison forever? I think that's helpful.

Michael Snow, a former Baltimore police officer who'd been convicted of bank robbery, I've actually heard about that, police officer who'd been convicted of bank robbery i've actually heard about that testified that he was housed with an with smith in the same protective custody ward in the detention center at one point during their detention he said he just asked the guy he asked smith quote if he really killed that lady and he said he just looked at him and said which is accurate with the statements when his record it's that's how he answers things when he asked smith how uh how he killed her he said that he just kind of uh quote he had his hand just kind of folded it like he was holding something and he made some stabbing motions when snow asked smith why he killed him why he killed the woman she said he said quote she was an old lady who startled them when they came in.

He said that Smith explained that he was fighting with her trying to get away, and she bit him and then went crazy. Oh, so now she bit. She bit him. Yeah. Yeah, so she's the dog that he, yeah, so that's the deal. Now, Snow testified he didn't receive a plea deal or anything else in exchange for his testimony. or anything else in exchange for his testimony. He just testified on the advice of his attorney because he found what the appellant told him,

or what Smith told him, quote, appalling. Yeah. Appalling. Yeah. He found it appalling. So, yeah, Hathaway acknowledged her statement to the police because they'd call her back again. She says why she was going down the alley and all that kind of shit.

So Smith ends up testifying in his own defense here. Oh, she'll be good. The last day of the trial. This is some showdown shit here. He says that he remembers his recorded conversation with Hathaway, but he said that, quote, the whole time he did not ever know what she was saying, referring to, or what she was talking about or nothing. He's hard of hearing in one ear.

So he says, I didn't even hear. That's what he said. So he doesn't even know what the hell she was talking about. I don't think that's legal. That's strange. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it does have a hearing impairment, but I'm not sure if you can't have like a solid conversation with somebody. Then just be like, I didn't hear shit.

That's yeah. I answered questions and had detailed statements he said he did tell her that quote all three got the money and that they all split twenty thousand dollars a piece which wasn't true uh that's obviously not true that's what i mean that sixty thousand dollars thing it sounds like he's just telling a tall tale big number that yeah where'd he get 60 grand from he said that he lied to had she kept asking him questions, quote, about something that happened that I had no knowledge of. And that was the only way he could think of to get her to leave him alone. She's like annoying is what he was saying. So I was like, yeah, we all got 20 grand. It was great. Fuck away from me. Don't ask me that anymore. about his interview with Sergeant Bollinger. He said that he could not hear the recording Sergeant Bollinger tried to play for him. Sergeant then advised him if he did not come clean,

you'll never ever see your wife or kids again. Because at this point, these guys are married with kids and I feel bad for their fucking wives. Imagine that. This wasn't like an ongoing thing that you knew about. They were just guys you met and then it's like, oh yeah, they got a murder charge here. I mean, whether they did it or not,

that sucks for the families because they had no no idea and then that also starts them thinking about shit that's been said in the last however long it's been since they've been in a relationship well what the fuck did that mean jesus christ yeah so uh at that point because sergeant mccauley told him that he would see smith quote strapped down and given the lethal injection he told sir that's when he said he he uh confessed because he was talking about lethal injection unless you confess that's when he said he did it david did it ray was there he said quote i didn't know what else to do that's what they wanted me to say so that's what i said because they were like ray was outside and you and david

went and did that shit right and i was like yeah sure anything keeps the needle out of my arm he said that he acknowledged he was placed in protective custody with Michael Snow, but he denied that he told Snow anything about the killing or made any stabbing motions with his hand. He denied taking part in Wilford's murder. He testified that he was not with Faulkner and Andrews at the time because he did not know neither of the something at all, neither one. He couldn't tell. He also denied seeing his aunt that day on Black Alley Road, Black Dog Alley. The sergeant was recalled as a rebuttal witness,

and he said that he received various newspaper articles, and none of the articles contained a description of what Ms. Wilford was wearing the day she was killed. So how would he know that, basically? One of the articles contained a description of what Ms. Wilford was wearing the day she killed. She was killed. So how would he know that, basically? So the jury, this goes to the jury. The jury begins deliberating at about 2.15 p.m. They return to the jury box shortly before 3 p.m. with a question concerning the first degree felony murder count. And the judge tells the jurors that the state has to prove

that Smith or another person participated in the crime committing a felony, that Smith or another person participated in the crime killing Wilford, and that the act had resulted in Wilford's death occurred during the commission of the felony. They did a felony. They killed her during the commission of that felony, basically. So the jury said, cool. went back in for 10 minutes 10 so that's uh 215 about 45 minutes then they go back for another 10 and then they come back with a verdict done done verdict it takes that's you can't even fill the i mean they must have had somebody smoking right and filling that paperwork out, man.

That's hard. So they come back in. They deliberate less than an hour. And this is for Smith. They find him guilty of felony murder and daytime housebreaking. So he's convicted of this. Obviously, sentencing comes up. And this is the same thing for Faulkner. So that's what we're doing obviously. Sentencing comes up. And this is the same thing for Faulkner.

So that's what we're doing here. Sentencing comes up. The defense attorney, he says that he tells the judge that he would basically, he's going to be the only person in the room who's going to call for any compassion against Smith. He said, quote, life is very good for some people. For others, it is very poor. But everybody who is born must pay the price and die, which is a weird way to try to defend your murder client. We're all going to die at some point. We're all going to die.

So parents are left to grieve for children, children for parents, siblings for siblings, friends for friends. Yeah, great. Why should we not stick this guy in for life? Thank you, Mufasa. Circle of life. Yeah. He said no. We said 12 jurors found him guilty but he said quote no truth has been uncovered no actual answer has been revealed

if it satisfies the family that he received a sentence of life in prison then they can choose to be satisfied he said uh that uh smith was 17 years old when this happened and he didn't have an alibi for the time of her death he said quote what 17 year old would just happen so he said that smith is married they have three young children he's not a you know he did do some shit as we remembered uh now victim impact statement on the opposite side is comes from curry wilford who is uh curly son he said quote we have no mother no grandmother no friend he said that uh jonathan jonathan Smith, since this has all happened in the years, has eaten crabs, petted dogs. He's also done other things to dogs and watched the birth of his children. He said, My mother missed the joy that came from the birth of three grandchildren. She'll never take another trip. He said his mother's family and friends have been devastated. The community has been terrorized. At times, those who knew his mother have been questioned whether someone else who knew her was involved in the murders. It's been a nightmare.

He said Jonathan Smith has not accomplished anything of value since this crime. Justice calls for no less than the maximum sentence the law provides. So the judge reviews the pre-sentencing report. He said that Smith told him he was sorry. This is told the judge and understood everything that was said in the victim impact statements. He said some of them were terribly emotional. But anyway, after the judge comes back and he says, quote, it's tragic that you have three young children

and a wife who needs you, but forfeited your right to that. I understand that you don't take any responsibility for the crime. I wish that I had the words to bring some comfort to the Wilford family, but I don't. We all lose our parents if we are lucky and our parents are lucky. It's a sad day. He said then, Mr. Smith, as Mr mr o'connor pointed out that is the the maximum sentence is life it's the sentence i feel the crime warrants if you did not commit the crime it's a terrible miscarriage of justice if you did it's the only proper sentence you sir yeah may fuck off life in prison for this guy now so enough crab you've had enough crab you've petted enough dog's heads i'm very sorry it's fascinating in maryland yeah you've eaten even crab and dogs yeah

fucking hilarious right it's fucking heartbreaking this guy's been uh available for crab it's not fair he's been eating the they come in the season he's eating the crab chips. He's got it all, man. This is ridiculous. So many Chesapeake. They bring in to play the crab. So much just that bay seasoning. So much of it. Old bay. Old bay.

So March 13, 2001 now. This is like two weeks later. He files a motion for a new trial, arguing that exculpatory DNA evidence was withheld from the defense. Specifically, the DNA analysis of debris taken from under the fingernails not being a match for them. They never put that. That was never available at trial for them to say. Wow. Which is a huge. That's devastating to prosecution.

Huge. That's maybe why it wasn't available. They denied the motion, the circuit court on that. They had the DNA. They had the DNA. This is 2001, mind you. So the court rejected the claims for error during the trial, but conclude that the circuit court erred in denying his motion for a new trial without a hearing. So they said he should have had a hearing later on.

The next attempt, the defense counsel abandons the argument regarding the withheld DNA and instead argued that Smith had been set up by his aunt and Mr. Andrews working in concert. He had been visiting or she had been visiting him in jail. of interest because he represented Mr. Andrews in the criminal case, also represented Lacey Janda, who is Hathaway's granddaughter in an estate matter addressing whether the appellant, whether Smith or Janda would inherit the father's property. So this even if he's in jail, even her granddaughter gets more stuff and she they have the same lawyer. That's fucked up. The same lawyer represents the key witness and the other. That's that.

This is small town murder. This is why we go, fuck, this isn't good. Way too much conflict. Wow. Um, yeah.

Also, miss Hathaway also represents Hathaway herself in a civil suit against, uh, miss Wilford son regarding the reward money because she will sue the son for reward the rest of the reward money this is fucking bonkers dude this it gets crazier from here the circuit court denies the motion okay september of 2005 um this is smith files a petition for post-conviction relief in 2009 the circuit court denies his petition court subsequently denies his application for leave to appeal it's all legal shit here at

that point so uh and one other appeal comes up um that the court in its earlier opinion noted Ms. Hadaway's testimony was corroborated by Mr. Andrews and the appellate's three separate confessions to Sergeant Bollinger, Mr. Snow, and Ms. Hathaway. Well, two of them aren't really official confessors. So they also noted the confession accurately stated that Ms. Wilford was wearing a blue coat and had glasses on a chain around her neck. So fuck off in the appeal. October 2001, this is when Hathaway sues for the rest of the reward. 2001? Yeah, she got $10,000 for the arrest,

but now they don't want to give her the rest of the $15,000. So, Smith and they're both sentenced to life, like we said. Hathaway said Friday that she deserves the $15,000 more since it had been increased to $25,000 at the time she decided to testify. This is in court. Fucking court. The court here began with this whole thing. Echol, who's her lawyer, started out the hearing by telling the judge that he was withdrawing his appearance as attorney because of a conflict of interest. It's about fucking time.

And then the judge said, you have no authority to withdraw your appearance. You have overstepped your bounds, sir. He yells at the attorney. So then he says, quote, I submit a motion to withdraw my appearance. How about that? Maybe I'll leave it up to you. And then he granted the request. Like, fucker, that's not how this shit works.

The judge is swinging his dick around now. He on the table pardon you're doing what now oh you need to ask if you can do that my permission yeah that's like a kid who goes i'm going to the bathroom in class and they go pardon me may i please go to the bathroom there it's their hall pass so um with so echo ends leaving and Hadaway is left to act as her own lawyer. And for the next hour and a half, imagine we've described her. Imagine her acting as her own lawyer. Oh, boy. Want trying to get fifteen thousand dollars out of some rich guy. Yeah.

So Hadaway called several witnesses. State's attorney, Scott Patterson, retired state trooper Samuel Shelley, who was the original investigator, Sergeant Bollinger, Sergeant Jack McCauley of the Maryland State Police. He also tried to call another state trooper, but despite insure assurances that he was on his way, he never showed up. The judge was annoyed by Hathaway's questioning, repeatedly admonishing her. She doesn't know how to question people. questioning repeatedly admonishing her because she doesn't know how to question people at one point he interrupted her and said mrs hadaway please which i would pay to watch he interjected during one of her questions stop asking long complicated questions ask a short direct simple question yes and no that's how you get a fucking answer and another point he said

quote let's cut to the chase and get on to it and uh and she said i'm leading up to it your honor and he said don't ask compound questions that take five minutes to ask it's trying to be fucking barry mason yeah well how are you gonna remember the first part of it if you're yeah she uh when hadaway was questioning sergeant bollinger asked him if he knew that the only reason i testified was because i needed the reward she said do you recall i wasn't doing it for free? And he answered yes to both questions. So she's like, I only did this shit for the money. So she made the most headway with Shelley,

who testified that the son, Curry Wilford, was the individual in charge of the reward, and it certainly was within his full knowledge and consent. That's all she got out of him. Shelley did testify that he'd never seen a signed document in which that increased the award to $25,000. That's just what they said. And several newspapers had posted about the reward. And she said, quote, I didn't think the newspapers were in the habit of lying.

It's a matter of public record. So, 2000. She's a party. By the way, she dies sometime in the 2000s there she drops dead sometime a damn shame sometime between 01 and 2011 uh she drops dead she was high strung as oh she was a party attack i guarantee oh it had to be or some crazy shit her internals can't handle that kind of behavior she could have like driven her truck into the front window of a mattress store because she didn't like the way they installed the box

spring at her house or something anything could happen i'm gonna say mattress store so 2011 the maryland state uh um innocence project gets involved here this is a i'm sorry the in new york the new york innocence project gets involved filing public information acts requesting the case here uh this is on behalf of smith and faulkner so based on information they file a petition for a writ of actual innocence and a motion to reopen post-conviction proceedings so uh the new yorkence Project does all of this. And they a lot of this is they're looking for the copies of the tapes with recorded conversations between Bollinger and Hathaway, the ones about, you know, we're going to get my grandson out of trouble or what.

So this goes on 2013. Smith files a motion to reopen post-conviction proceeding, arguing that based on newly discovered and otherwise suppressed evidence, because that's the only way you can do this, the state violated his due process rights by withholding exculpatory evidence and Brady violations. Withheld evidence. Didn't give it to the defense there. So specifically, he pointed to the discovery of the Bollinger Hataway tapes and the state's wrongful alleged wrongful withholding of DNA test results showing a foreign profile of the victim's fingernail on the victim's fingernails from which all defendants were excluded. He also asserted that these violations, in addition to ineffective assistance of counsel, warranted reopening of the case.

The they go into the whole thing. They talk about the palm prints and everything like that which didn't match him june 11 2015 smith files a petition for writ of actual innocence in his petition uh he asserted three claims of newly discovered evidence one identification of ty brooks is the source of the palm prints wow yeah that's who's the fucking palm prints belong to the boozies dna it's it's it's ty brooks's palm print so that's that says something that's a problem that's a problem that's not good and the recorded conversations between hadaway and bollinger and statements made by eyewitnesses that say they saw

a vehicle at the house and they didn't have a fog. They never claimed to have a vehicle. They've never qualified where the fuck that keen guy came from with the vehicle. Like, how did he see a silver vehicle? He drives by the house all the time. He's not a crackpot. He's the, you know. He sees a car of three dudes on foot.

Very strange thing here. So the circuit court consolidated the hearings here and the court issued an order detailing the presentation. Here we go. So they're going to listen and Mr. Keene's statement that he saw the vehicle there. They want to bring in the tapes. They want to bring in all this shit. The state contends that the circuit court properly exercised its discretion in first denying this petition. It makes two arguments. First, it says that the Smith did not provide evidence of innocence, asserting that the above referenced evidence was not exonerating evidence. It was just at trial. It would have been helpful. But post trial, fuck yourself. It's not exonerating evidence it was just at trial it would have been helpful

but post trial even fuck yourself it's not it's not evidence it's not dna evidence of someone else you know it's just not him a second that's a ballsy line to draw second the state asserts that the circuit court did not abuse its discretion in concluding that smith was not diligent in covering and discovering newly discovered evidence. They're saying it wasn't suppressed. He could have found that. Those tapes were in there somewhere. They literally go into it where their legal arguments of the people appealing here,

the suspects or the convicted ones, are saying that it's like an 1,100-page thing. They're looking for one piece of a statement they go that's like looking for a needle in a haystack where then they broke the eye of the needle off and it's just a fucking needle like you can't find it in there how is a prisoner supposed to find that so that's not you can't bury something in a giant file and then go well you could have found it that's what they said basically everything we had yeah no matter we didn't use it no legal resources or anything you can just do it sitting in your jail cell that's crazy so that's what they said basically everything we had yeah no matter we didn't use it no legal resources or anything you can just do it sitting in your jail cell that's crazy so that's kind of weird uh in this a portion of a an interview from ty brooks from 2015 when he was in jail at this

point this interview he stated that he was terrorizing easton admitted to committing robberies and burglaries. He didn't remember. This is the murder is not my M.O. thing. The defense counsel argued that these statements were not offered for the truth of the matter asserted, but for the opposite of the truth as false denials demonstrating his consciousness of guilt. If the you watch the first 48, if they bring someone in and they say, I just robbed, but I didn't do the murder part, they'd go, okay. And they know that he did the murder part. He was there. He just put himself at the scene.

He's given us part of it. Give me another five minutes. Two people doing bad things didn't just walk into that house through a fucking rotating door together. That's, fuck yeah, good point. Robbery didn't go in and then murder followed him. Nobody does that. Yeah. They said they were admissible as non-hearsay and they should have been in there um while the identity was

finally the identity of the palm print being ty brooks wasn't revealed until 2015 but the lawyers discovered that the prints matched those of ty brooks who was incarcerated in 2015 and had previously served prison time for a similar burglary in which he was alleged to have assaulted a fucking elderly woman within months of Wilford's murder. OK, now, palm prints there, more of that. This is the palm print guy, Mankiewicz. He says he discovered the palm prints there. He said that on the chances of the perpetrators were engaging in a pattern of burglaries, they might return to the area and commit more offenses. So he said it could have been from a previous burglary where he broke in, even though she never reported a previous burglary.

He said from 87 to 2000, he performed 72 manual comparisons of the prints lifted from the residence in October 2008. annual comparisons of the prints lifted from the residents in October, 2008. Uh, they said it all went online with the ability to perform electronic fingerprint searches. And they added the ability to perform electronic palm print searches. The next year, it uses an algorithm that performs a statistical analysis of the minutia

and creates a score for possible candidates, which are then listed and ranked by closeness of match. If you ever wondered how that shit worked. That's that's interesting. He explained that before the state police crime laboratory gained access to this system, there was no systematic way to follow through with an unidentified print. They have an unidentified print and they go. We will compare it when we get another one. When we get one that we think it might match.

You couldn't just run it through and get a match like on fucking cia or csi cis that's crime and sports which you should be listening to so uh august 2013 they're filing all these motions 2015 it's going on uh 2016 mankovich received a request from the defense lawyer to compare the remaining prints with known samples from William Boozy Thomas and of eight remaining unidentified latent print impressions. Mankiewicz eliminated Boozy Thomas as the source of seven of the prints, but was unable to perform a full comparison on the eighth print, which was taken from the porch door. The methodology used is it doesn't matter. So cross-examination, he testified that part of the mission of the Maryland State Police was to provide forensic services to any legitimate party requesting, whether it's defense or the state. So, hey, when they asked whether he would have compared Prince of Thomas or Brooks to the latent prints recovered, if Smith had asked, he responded he would have if the person requesting had investigative authority, which could include the public defender's office or an attorney or the Innocence Project.

So they're saying that you didn't even ask for him. It's fine. So you don't know. Good. Sure. You can't have an appeal because you should have asked for it. They said that. Yeah, they got it from Ty Brooks.

He said with comparing latent prints, he looked for artifacts in the background, such as scratches, nicks, cuts, that sort of thing, which could be matched from image to image. And then they ended up doing that. So he explained that one group of prints, he saw a U-shaped feature in the center, which he believed was caused by extraneous moisture

being present in the powder that had adhered to. So they're talking about raindrops. They really get into some serious fingerprint shit here. If we had the time, we'd get into it because I find it very interesting. But the newly discovered evidence is the important thing. Evidence regarding Mr. Keene did not tend to exonerate Smith and was not, quote, the type of evidence the Court of Appeals noted in that the innocence petition was designed to address. It's not a not a smoking gun. They said with respect to the Ty Brooks palm prints, it contends the presence of his palm prints in Mrs.

Wilford home does not mean that Smith was not in the Wilford home at the time of the murder. Basically, they both could have been there. They could. Oh, you're breaking in. Me, too. Tell you what. You rifle the dresser and I'll kill her in the kitchen. We call upstairs.

What the fuck? Like, that's literally the state's intention. That's a bonkers. Because one of them was there and they didn't know each other. Doesn't mean they both weren't there. OK. The state's view of, uh, on the type of evidence of innocence required is too narrow is what the court says.

And, uh, the court agrees that's fucking ridiculous. That's silly. Uh, also had a way, uh, one investigator said that had a way told police she would produce a

document alleging she'd been diagnosed with a mental disorder, which would decredit, which would discredit her testimony. And, uh, so they said she basically blackmailed the fucking police department with this shit. They said that quote that destroy,

they said these conversations between Hathaway and the police destroy her credibility as a witness and corrupt the process. The scope of her manipulation is disturbing and breathtaking, breathtaking. Breathtaking. Wow. Jesus Christ. So the also they talk more about the palm prints and they said the court must consider the totality of the circumstances to determine whether this identification could have been made or could have been known at the time of the trial as a result of due diligence. So, yeah, the state didn't test it, but could the defense have just known to test it back then?

Maybe they should have known. And yeah, so that's what they're looking at. They said that between 2000 and 2016, the prints of seven people, including the Faulkner and Smith, Ty Brooks and Boozy Thomas have been compared to the Palm Prince. And that's what he noticed. It was Ty Smith. They said that the the murder was available.

All of this was available to them and they should have found it themselves. Basically, it's not our job. It's not our job to figure out who didn't kill her. It's our job to just charge somebody with it. And that's how it works there i'd give a hand it over to god like ray andrews said put it up to god brooks said that so the evidence does not uh reflect that ty brooks's palm prints were on file and available for manual comparison so they would have had to say hey there's a guy named ty brooks go find him print him and check against it even

though no one's mentioned his fucking name yet. No, actually, James Brooks did in 2001, but nobody knew that. So it's fucking ridiculous. They they said, given the number of possible suspects, we cannot conclude that due diligence required the appellant in this case to take legal action. Assuming that was even possible to obtain palm prints of all the potential suspects, including Ty Brooks, Mr. Ty. They couldn't get a palm print from Brooks. It's impossible for a defense to get a palm.

They could have subpoenaed it in a big fig, but they can't just call him up and go, whatever, let's print you. It's your job to prosecute and build a heavy case and get the most information possible. And if your fucking fingerprints and DNA don't match, let that guy go. Or something, at least try to get more evidence i don't know so they uh they said that the the courts finally say that uh smith met his burden of showing that the palm print evidence and the tapes constituted newly discovered evidence that could not have been discovered in the exercise of due diligence so not your fault you didn't find it they didn't give it to you so they said the next step is whether uh that evidence met the third requirement for newly

discovered evidence that it creates a substantial or significant possibility the result may have been different uh in the trial which i think dna saying it's not fucking yours and someone else's palm print who's a known burglar an old lady assaulter i'd say that's a pretty good piece of fucking defense evidence that they would probably have enjoyed having so um accordingly the court vacates the circuit court judgments denying him of the writ of actual innocence and he can go forward with that so uh evidentiary hearings were held in 2016 and 2018. On April 27, 2020, by the way, I've had this case for like three years, and I'm so glad we didn't do it years ago. A unanimous opinion on the Court of Appeals, 7-0, Faulkner's and Smith's petitions for writs of actual innocence were granted. for writs of actual innocence were granted. So, May 5th,

2020, Maryland's Supreme Court unanimously overturns the murder convictions, citing recently discovered evidence and the disclosure of a deal investigators made with Hathaway. The Court of Appeals said there was substantial or significant possibility that the juries would not have convicted David Faulkner and

Jonathan Smith had they been told of the murder scene palm print and pledged to release the witness's grandchild from a drug charge if she testified against them. 7-0 decision. They ordered new trials for Faulkner and Smith, who were both serving life sentences. So the way this ends up working out,

they said they do all of this, but now they still have to go through a new fucking trial, basically. And they're not going to grant a new trial, right? They're not going to try to charge those guys again, right? Well, the one guy, the Innocence Project guy said about Faulkner, he's been in prison for 20 years for a crime he didn't commit. And he she says, we haven't been vindicated yet. However, we are thrilled and also relieved that we get the result. We saw it for six years now.

So eventually they end up January 29th, 2001. They release Faulkner from jail. They decide they're not going to refile charges against him. They release him from jail. So he was very happy. He'll be held at home with an electronic monitor through the pretrial services because they're talking about, uh, the fact that they may refile the charges though again. So they're going to keep him on that.

And they said, uh, he's the 38th person freed or exonerated by the mid Atlantic innocence project. So Smith prosecutors say they will retry him really and they also while he's awaiting charges they deny him bond as well as he's going to sit in jail and wait for it so uh they judge that based on confessions to the crime and a lack of a stable place to live outside of jail jesus and they brutal Yeah. They said that he poses a danger to the community and should be held. The his attorney, though, Smith's attorney, said that if he were to be released, he would live with his lifelong friend in Talbot County and seek a job using his skills.

He learned while he's incarcerated, which is never. That's not great. The judge said generally detriment to society. Yeah. No shit. So the judge said, even though Faulkner's out, you're not tough shit. They said that Mr. Smith's case is a less restrictive alternative to jail where no one nowhere near as compelling as Mr.

Faulkner's. Although Smith may be living with a life partner that does not promote to be particularly a stable relationship or place for him to stay. Said Faulkner's case is his case in your case is your case is what he said. Three months later, in April, they decide not to retry him. And he is released, Smith is, as part of a plea deal. They enter an Alford plea to first-degree murder and daytime haste. That's such a save-all. I could still put it in my pocket for

prosecutors move the plea is not an admission of guilt we all know what an alfred plea is look up west memphis three and there you go uh the conditions of the pleading guilty were that his sentence be suspended and he be granted probation uh so the prosecutor said of the uh the agreement that while quote the only real justice would be for this crime to never have happens it happened he stands by his offer because quote this matter needs to be closed of the agreement that while, quote, the only real justice would be for this crime to never have happened, it happened. He stands by his offer because, quote, this matter needs to be closed. Paul Holes, get a hold of that DNA and run that shit through 23 and replace. He also said that Smith, quote, can hide behind an Alford plea, but he's a guilty man and he will always be guilty.

Oh, my God. You can. Can you sue that man? I believe you possibly can because he Alford pleaded. god damn it that's yeah what an asshole thing to say fucking unbelievable at this point he is 52 years old and in prison this guy probably didn't do anything um yeah so now he said he was happy he could go home to his family he's his lawyer said this is not justice for him this is not over mr smith this stuff suffered suffered prejudice and he cannot get a fair trial because of misconduct. The state is acknowledged.

And that's when they did the Alford plea because they went, yeah, kind of. Smith says, quote, before I was sent to prison, I'd often go fishing and bowling with my family. Just about everything a normal family would do. But when I was convicted, I felt like I lost everything and everybody that I cared about. Over the next 20 plus years, I tried my hardest to keep the faith by reading the Bible. Oh boy. I also stayed in touch with my ex-wife and my three sons by writing them. Sadly, I missed the passing of my youngest son, whom I wish I could have spent more time with in 2007. Now that I'm home, I'd love to spend Father's Day doing what my sons would like to do, and that was this year. Although my relationship

with them has gotten better, I still feel out of touch. I want to make up for those years I lost with them, and more importantly, not take my family for granted ever again. Now, the Wilford kids, how would you feel if you're the kid? That's fucked, man. There's no way to feel good about this if you're the kids of anyone. The state of Maryland bungled the fuck out of this. You're mad at those people. You're mad at the state of Maryland.

You're mad at the cops. You're mad at the state of Maryland. You're mad at the cops. You're mad at the murderers. You're mad at everybody because one person, people who are completely innocent in this whole thing are these people, the Wilford family. So two of the children were in the courtroom for this. The third, uh,

went via zoom call, which was offered, uh, Wilford's youngest child. That is Pucky, the daughter. She said it was in quote, impossible to describe in words the way I feel. She said her mother's killing is a horror I have to live with for the rest of my life.

And the ongoing litigation has quote, cut a hole so deep within her. Where is the justice? This isn't over for us and it never will be. Those four poor fucking people. That sucks. That everybody is a crazy ass story. That is one of the few unsolved. Yeah, that's what I mean.

We don't know what the fuck happened there. I don't know. Ty Brooks, this one, that one, some other person. He said he did. Who the hell? This is crazy, man. How did they not have that DNA being run through everything and everything? It's fucking bonkers.

Unbelievable. I don't understand how the fuck this ended up coming off like this, but it did, and it's crazy. So, wow. This was one that was just a head spinner for me. As I got into the case, I was like, this is very interesting. And then when I started getting to the end, I'm like, did they do this? I was like, oh, my God, I don't know if they did this. And then it's bonkers. God. I don't know if they did this. And then it's bonkers.

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Follow us on social media, please. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram. Also, follow the Upside Down Digital Network, because damn it, do we have an exciting week. We had Game of of crimes come out you know last week and it was amazing and we're going we're psyched about what they're putting out and we have another show coming out our second and final show for a little while we're going to try to we have other stuff cooking but we are going to put on life after happy face by melissa moore and dr laura petler And we'll just put it this way.

Nobody knows more about these murdery subjects than these two ladies right here. And they're going to give it to you from a very unique point of view, two unique points of view. From being honest, Melissa's father is the happy face killer, as we might know. Amazing show that we would listen to even if we had nothing to do with it. And we just can't wait to hear what they come up with and share it with you guys. So everybody out there, listen to that Life After Happy Face on the Upside Down Digital Network. Please give that a shot and keep doing that. And that said, I think we need to hear.

Let's get refreshing, James. Let's hear good things. We need to hear. Let's get refreshing, James. Let's hear good things. Let's hear from the most wonderful goddamn people on the face of the earth that would never, ever, ever sneak into our house and stab a knife into our face and then be freed 30 years later. So hit me with those names right now, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Katie Andrade, Terry Suordos, Joanne Ahern, Debbie guffler david riggs and jordan bennett thank you guys thank you you're incredible you're the best we appreciate you so much you're everything uh

other producers this week are james gaber gabauer gabauer oh boy uh marcel destin reverend alden and his pal doc baker james a reverend and a doctor excellent i imagine those are mash references probably but still james martyr mary stewart katie Katie Miller's boyfriend, Jacob Miller, is having a birthday. Oh, I think the way you said that, I thought you were going to say he's having a baby. I was like, wow, okay. Her boyfriend. Congratulations. Katie Miller, Jacob Miller, boyfriend.

Hey, Jacob Miller, happy birthday. Do me a favor, Katie, and run 23andMe on that real quick. Yeah, make sure you're not. Before you guys marry or have children. Just make sure. You know. Just make sure, Millers. Quick family trees. Unmar quick. Yeah, make sure you're not. Before you guys marry or have children. Just make sure. You know. Just make sure, Millers. Quick family trees.

Unmarried Millers, let's just make sure. I realize it's a common name. Yeah, very, very similar, but- Still. Quickie, quickie swab. Very familiar, very common. Swab it up. Spit in a tube and mail it out.

Let's go. Bryn Sanders, Savannah McKinley, see you in Nashville. Jesse Pitts remodeled his new mortgage. Congratulations. Congrats. Clemens Claus. What? Pitts remodeled his new mortgage. Congratulations. Clemens Claus. What? Clemens Claus?

Is that a product? I think so. Visconti? Jennifer Visconti. Oh, thank you. Mark Vincelette. What? Jude Kendall.

Janice Hill. Jennifer Stevens. Jenny Scheib of Earl Fortune. Oh, obviously. That's why they're donating all that paint money.ma coil alexandria kritkiewicz what uh alan cory marissa burn uh brendan abel sandra mcgovern fetus felcher what whoa stephanie hren uh christina west kim hughes billy t mary tanto tanto donati uh e heart miranda n, Marfrendo, Hunter Flood, Cecilia Braja, Marissa Giampolo, Camilla with no last name, Joanna Locatelli. What the fuck happened? Did you email a bunch of people at the Knights of Columbus and tell them about the show?

Everybody. Oh, everybody donate. We're going to fuck Jimmy up. Hey, chicken parmesan for the whole room whoever makes the phone call 11 names uh mark pugil rick grennan laura shin renee perry katie deigen uh bodie marshall shell shell shelly 46 47 nope 74 jasmine i can't even read numbers. What is happening? Jasmine Pokes, Speak Easy, Frank Ray Guevara, Yasmin Azuzina, Deonda, Nick Stremkowski, Eric Smith, David Jenner, Janet Hughes, Shantia, Shantia, Myricks, Shabon Calnan, whatever, Aaron. Okay.

I'm really bad at reading. Allison Niedbowski, Jesse Eric Ohl, Sam Fisher, Jessica Kureker, Laurie Zare, Jesse Masters, Ellie Ma, John Allen, Eric Palm, Natasha with no last name. Rocco Mediate. Meditate? No. Joe Oliver. Mediate? Mediate!

Hey! There you go. I don't have it in front of me, by the way. Alex Messines. Sky Vasquez. Guinevere Spurdens. Sarge with no last name. Flacco, no last name.

Chris Chiricos. Anna Hutchinson. Mark McAllister. Vijay Ball. Rice Newhold. Skylar De Aristaista Arastia, Sean, Carrie Clinton, Attaway Tamera with no last name. Tamara, uh, Brittany rap, Megan Andrews, Jessica Zopal, Travis Isley, Marissa Albanese, Daniel cash, Steve coffee, Kim Tolman, Wendy Montgomery.

Oh, what? Jen, Jen, you flecky. What? Rigoletti, Pandino, Joey Hoffman, Leon Shorter III, Lindsay McFadden, Lori Lou Who, Alan Donahue, Vonda Wagner, Sheila Atkins, Jasa Hankey, Melissa Von Ruden, Danielle Kay, Jeffrey Zirkle, Celeste Warlick, Skip Bayless's hernia. Good for you, Skip. You deserve one. Adrian with no last name. Austin Van Dyke.

Kristen Roundtree. Jana Baldassari. Lexi Albert. Amelia. Nope. Amelie. Amelie Baychamp. Deanna McCord.

Nicholas Cabot. John Doe. Kelly Truby. Chris Downey. Christopher Heischer, Brandy Hannon, Jen with no last name, Steve with no last name, Kaylee Crawford, Nathan Talbot, oh shit, Keith Reichel, I was doing great, Patrick Hensley, Kara Blevins, Alexis Price, John Pankava, Stacey Ngo, Vicky Williams-Harris, Trey Saxton, Jake Adam, Lydia Posey, Milan, Malin, Wilson, fuck, Jesus, Teresa Howron, John Paul Hayward, Jameson Braun, Michael Cherry, Stephanie Horton-Caranza,

Laura Clevenger, Georgia Johnson, James Bain, Sarah Foreman, Tanya Graham, Nathan with no last name, James Allen, RJL, Claire Toucher, Toucher, Toucher, Daydon, Daydoni, Chris with no last name james allen rj l claire touch toucher toucher dayton daydoni chris with no last name orlando with no last name jonathan mcnotty nope that's conate what mcnotty you need to call yourself jonathan mcnotty from now on by the way that's your new name dude sorry that's my new stage name cory jones heather hamilton uh kaki with no last name uh wade paul costa why did i even say that j eric soderstrom you can't read that's why jacob reads i see letters and i and my brain goes this is what those mean natalie searcy elena l church clint p jennifer carpenter paul landymore, Jordan Leavitt, Brian Schultz, Katie Felecker, Tracy, oh boy, Carnaoli, Brianna Stuber, Michael Neusler, Polly Thorpe, John Kenny, James Hampton, Denise Branley, Johnny Robinson, Craig Baxa, Paul Jamie Lane, and Ivan Ventura, and obviously all of our patrons. You guys, you're terrific. Thank you so much thank you everybody so much from effort vescent mother

oh you sons of bitches i love you from the bottom of our hearts we appreciate everything you do for us honestly we can't do it without you so thank you you means the world to us it really does we're blown away every week but people give a shit, and we're like, wow, they still care. It's terrific. Thank you for making us feel like we're useful in the world. Jimmy? It's an actual job that they gave us. You can tell me that you've

found a job for me. At Wismansucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks, on Twitter and Instagram. Thank you so, so much for being here and doing this with us. What about you? You can find me all over the place at Jimmy P is funny. You can just find us on Google. You know how to

find us. Just Google the show and they'll be like, oh, these are the hosts. And then they'll say what we are. Google our names. Super easy. You don't even have to search. Just click on shit and it goes right there. Super crazy, man. The way they got the whole the whole Internet set up, man. It's wild. So,

um, that said, find us and keep coming back. Cause we're going to keep coming back. I can't, can't, you can't keep us away. And until next week,

everybody, it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.