Small Town Murder - #237 - The Bear King Kills - Hillsdale, New York

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

This week, in Hillsdale, New York, a most brutal, smoldering murder is a mystery, at first, but quickly focuses on one suspect, who turns out to have one of the wildest tales that we've ever heard. Was he a person, with a simple motive for murder, or was he a deranged man, on a mission from God, who believes that he is simultaneously King Arthur, Jesus, Robin Hood, Merlin The Wizard, a ninja, and The Bear King? That's the question, but either way, this was a truly awful & vicious murder!! Along the way, we find out that Slambodovia isn't a real country, that Merlin apparently had a forehead tattoo, and that when you're on a mission from God, you don't need an attorney! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  New episodes every Thursday!  Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail]  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!  Follow us on...  twitter.com/@murdersmall  facebook.com/smalltownpod  instagram.com/smalltownmurder  Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hilldale, New York, an extra brutal and smoldering murder leads the investigation to a dark place with a suspect who has one of the wildest tales ever concocted.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We are extra excited, as always, today. Last week, we were in Florida, which was obviously insane because it's Florida.

And today, it hasn't been that long, but we have to go to New York again because, wow, do we have a wild tale for you folks. Quickly, though, before we get into that, just want to thank everyone for your reviews on whatever platform you listen to. Thank you. Whatever, wherever you listen to podcasts, whatever platform, if you can review, review whatever five stars, 10 stars, 300 stars, however many stars they let you give. Do that for us. I don't know why, but it helps do that. Head over to shut up and give me murder dot com and do it now.

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that happened in detroit which is a there's a very good documentary out about it right now and so good we might as well talk about it as well so the malice at the palace all sorts of melee that happened uh when the crowd and the players got into a little little fight and as people jimmy and i are both you know on stage we are going to definitely probably tend with the but you know we're going to be with the players on this one because stay in the crowd if you're in a crowd because if we fuck off the floor if you don't belong somewhere that you are that's that's an automatic red flag for anybody and you start swinging so uh but we'll get into it maybe we'll change our minds based on this so who who knows? And then for small town murders bonus, we are going to talk about something extremely

fun that I've been wanting to do. Non-dangerous conspiracy theories. Tremendous. Conspiracy theories that these are ones that you can debate with your friends and have some fun and nobody shoots up a pizza place afterwards or anything like that. Nothing, you know, we're talking things like, you know, Area 51. You got stuff like that and stuff like, you know, normal conspiracy theory. Lock, mess, and Bigfoot and things of that JFK, the moon landing, things of this nature

that we can all debate and that don't really affect our lives in any way, shape, or form. So it'll be a lot of fun. Just a good time there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And in addition to that, of course, shape, or form. So it'll be a lot of fun, just a good time there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And in addition to that, of course, you're a producer, so we are very thankful. And our way of showing that is to do shout-outs at the end of the show.

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into it it's all on there it's wild but check that out before disclaimer this is a comedy show we're we're comedians we're gonna make jokes uh people are gonna die that's why it's called small town murder there's definitely a murder involved in the whole thing and we're but the thing is there's a lot to make jokes about besides a murder we don't think actual killing of a person is funny that's's rarely funny. It's rarely funny to actually murder a person. So that's not the funny part. But the fact that you go, I think we can get away with this. I think if we kill this person, I think it's going to work out.

That's a crazy. That's a crazy thought worthy of mockery. So we're going to do that. But what we go out of our way to do and we try our best not to do, we try not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Tell me why. Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags there you have it that's how it works so if that sounds good to you awesome glad to have you on board if you think true crime and comedy should never go together ever ever ever and maybe we're not for you but maybe we are

you never know we're not for everybody you never know So everybody else, I think it's time to sit back and shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy, shall we? I would love that. All right, let's go. We're coming from the panhandle of Florida last week. I mean, that was some panhandley stuff there. If you haven't listened to last week yet, oh my, it's about people who own a bait shop in rural Panhandle, Florida.

Panhandle Love Triangle. It's handsome. It is crazy. And there's an Igor involved. The whole thing's crazy. This week, we're going to go up to New York again, where we were a few months back there in my old hometown. This week, we are in hillsdale new york all right and i'll i'll tell you how we found this murder because that's a funny story as

well in a second here it's in southeastern new york right on the massachusetts border right right there on the border right by kind of connecticut and massachusetts but connected western you mean southeastern new york southwestern new york would be isn't southeastern new york like the city no yeah that's like this is up from there it's like where i live okay yeah it's like where i live in that okay that bottom that little uh offshoot the i guess the panhandle you can call it that goes down it's about two hours and 15 minutes to new york city from up here about two and a half hours to Boston. Yeah. So kind of in between the two. About an hour and 10 minutes to Fishkill, New York, which is episode 215, which we did back then. And this is in Columbia County, area code 518.

It's a big, giant place, about 48 square miles. Wow. Huge place. Lots of farms. Lots of land. Lots of rolling hills and i know this because we found this because this town is on the way to great barrington massachusetts if you're driving from uh duchess county you know what's there mid hudson valley well massachusetts and especially great barrington has a wealth of recreational weed dispensaries.

So if you live in the Hudson Valley, that's where you go drive to get weed. Where? Because it's like an hour away. So we drive there. You drive through Hillsdale every single time is where you get off the Taconic and drive through. So I've driven past their high school. Right by their high school.

Right by their high school, there's a guy there. The house is nice, and then he has this shed that's like dilapidated, but inside there's all these power tools. And he sits there in a chair with a giant beard and a tattered American flag that instead of stars says Second Amendment in it, and it's just tattered and waved, and he's got this huge white beard. It's right next to an old cemetery. This town is a weird

old-timey town, though. There's statues of Revolutionary War soldiers and shit here. It's an interesting town, but that's how we found it. I bet that guy's got great stories, James. He probably did. Probably from the Revolutionary War. He's just survived this all time. That's what he looks like. He probably did, probably from the Revolutionary War. He's just survived this all time. That's what he looks like. He's like, I wrote the Second Amendment,

God damn it. Look at me. I was here. The original was written in my blood. Yeah. In my house, as a matter of fact. In my blood, in my house, dotted with semen. Obviously. So, yeah, it's a weird little town, and driving through it a bunch

of times, we drive through it a bunch of times we drive through towns that's how we found bobby colorado for crime and sports driving through fredericksburg texas we just so the trip is fortuitous that's what it is and then we look this up and sarah found this case and it's insane so great a little history here uh the mexican uh tribe were here at first and they were very damaged from their initial contact with the settlers here uh very much damaged uh like uh diseases during a oh okay diseases got it yeah um no they had you know smallpox and things that they'd never encountered before coming from europe just really decimated these tribes and uh introduction of liquor was also a not a great thing as well

yeah um liquor is one of those things i feel like uh i don't know if this is true or not but like i feel like um i don't know if like groups of people build up like genetic tolerance or something and then if you if people haven't had liquor at all then you give them liquor i don't know if they can if the liquor is works i don't know how it works you know what i mean if people haven't had liquor at all, then you give them liquor. I don't know if the liquor works. I don't know how it works. You know what I mean? If people have never had some. Yeah.

Because I'm just thinking of a person that's never had. If you knew an adult who's never had booze. And not just him, but his whole family ever. Yeah. But I'm just saying one person. If you knew a person who never drank ever in their life and never even were like, whoa, alcohol. They never smelled it. And then you were like like let's do a bunch of shots they you'd probably be in better shape than them yeah you know even if you're not like drinking all the

time you've had some experience in it so um yeah they were after a minute they started the mehekans started calling liquor the devil's blood after they got there and they are dead ass right that holds up to this day i would say yes so um yeah uh they uh they people bought land basically the van rests uh what renesolers uh bought land which included all of albany and all the way down like this the border down like toward massachusetts big giant swaths of land this is and the way this worked was they didn't the they're they're quote buying the land from the tribes the tribes don't realize that they're selling the land that's not how they did it and it's not like they didn't understand the concept of selling they understood the concept of selling but they thought they were giving rights to the land.

They thought they were buying like, oh, you can hunt on our land and live on our land, not that you're sovereign on it now. They didn't understand. Yeah, that's not how they didn't even think of that as like you could possess it like that. They thought of it as because it's God's. It's the well, it's theirs, too. That's the thing. So they never thought like we're going to give it to you. They were just like, oh, we're granting you usury rights, basically.

Like, you can fucking hunt and hang out and do all that shit. So they felt like they were badasses, like dons. Like, you can borrow that shit for the money and then give it back, obviously. You know, like a hotel or any other thing that you don't own that you want to stay there for a while. So you pay for it. Yeah. So that's where there was some confusion there apparently in this area is uh one of the places where that started and uh they were the uh there's a lot of still artifacts and

things like that all around this area this is a very historic area everything is historic and all that in 1776 which is when the revolution was going on. Yeah. Henry Knox passed through hillside while transporting cannons from Albany to aid the, uh, continental army in Boston. So this is where they have a markers here. There's a big guy on a horse that I think is a statue of Henry Knox in the, as you drive through the town,

it's a, you know, they're real excited about the Revolutionary War here. The guy the fort is named after. Yeah, I would assume it's the same guy. So if not, I mean, he's just a beneficiary of somebody else doing some shit with his name later. He's got a lot of family with that guy. Yeah, maybe.

The reviews of this town, hard to find bad reviews of this town. It's just kind of a nice, it's kind of a quiet town. I don't know what you would hate because there's not a lot there. Unless you hate your yard, there's not a lot to really go after. Here's one, five stars. The cascading mountains, rolling hills, golden fields, and blue sky are just a few features of this magnificent town. Wow. Wow, this sounds like the tourism board wrote it.

Well done, F. Scott Fitzgerald. Oof. Hillsdale, New York. Population, a little under 2,000. There are more cows than people. The quiet nights in the summer are bliss. Only the cricket's chirp can be heard. Best of all are the fall colors.

The leaf-peeping season is what brings people from far and wide. Ew. Just to catch a fleeting glimpse of the golden red hue. This hue I know all too well. This hue is my home. That's a real review of a town. I do not enjoy leaf peeping season. Leaf peeping. Wow.

Sounds like you're just jerking off. Oh, they're turning man. Oh, orange. Yeah. Oh God, they're turning orange. orange yeah oh god they're turning orange i can't take it the color's as fiery as me loins fuck where's my second amendment flag i gotta dot an i so cross some t's i gotta cross a t so yeah this is that's a someone thinks they're like a fucking poet over here. And that is ridiculous. It's upstate New York, sir. Calm down.

Calm down. Here is four stars. Hillsdale is a great little community. There are nice shops. They do need more restaurants. Exclamation point. There is great skiing. And in the summer, there are some amazing lakes.

It is minutes from Connecticut and Massachusetts. A quick train ride to nyc that's one of the main features of this place is you can get to other places quickly commutable as fuck which is a weird a weird way to say you like this place it's so great you can get everywhere away from here fast because that's what people would say is they like about phoenix too yeah they'd say that's great you can get to to Vegas in four hours. You can drive to San Diego in five. Or you can go to one of those places you want to be and not be in this place that you don't want to be.

What are we talking about here? What kind of trash are you that Vegas is your place to go elsewhere? Right. How is that a step? If Vegas is a step up from anywhere that you live, you live in a shithole. Yeah, it's bad. It's real bad. It's bleak.

Yeah, because Vegas is bleak. It's awful. Here's five stars. Locals love seeing new faces walk by. And as a visitor, I can say I love the way I was treated by the locals. A plus plus. All right. It's a friendly town.

Three stars. Weather characteristics of the area is really defined upon one's preference is this the poet again i love i love the spring through the fall this period is absolutely beautiful and green with nature at its very best winter is also beautiful but be warned because it can be very long and very cold it's in the fucking berkshire mountains yeah it's cold. And yeah, here's three stars. The area where I live could use could use more of what it has to offer. What? Just we like what it is. We just want more of it.

Yeah, it has all the charm and elegance of American living of Americana living. But I think that it could improve in quantity as far as employment goes. It simply needs more business to create more employment opportunities well then it won't be a quaint town because there'll be a lot more people living there with a lot more businesses and a lot more traffic a lot more shit like that so you want hustle and bustle or you want quiet you want quaint or do you want to live where there's work i think there's only you can only have one or the other really choices so uh population of this town this town peaked in population in 1860, by the way. So, that tells you a lot.

It's been a minute. There's way less people here now than in 1860. So, that's interesting. 1,682 people here at the moment. 53% male, which is out of whack, of the usual. Older crowd here. 48.8 is the median age here wow that is old that's 11 years older than the average in the rest of the country all the demographics under 45 years old all low

everything underrepresented so uh married population is high it's about 62 percent which is it's usually 50 50 uh all of that sort Married, all the married things are high. You know, people with kids, all that kind of shit. Less single people with no children as usual. Race of this town, 95.4% white. Wowza. Pretty goddamn white. 0.0% black.

Zero. 1.2% Asian, 2% Hispanic. My word. It's fucking white. When you drive through the town, you just see like, you know, it's white people. It's, you know, there. Is this just a bunch of white people that don't want to be in the city? No, there's some artsy shit around there.

All these towns are broken up like these weird little expensive towns kind of you know within a couple hours of new york or boston they're all broken up into where there's like a little art community and then there's like the farm people like people like blue collar people that actually do farming and do you know agriculture and do all the shit around that and then you get get white-collar fucks that come up there for the weekend from Manhattan, basically. So that's kind of the breakdown

of what these small towns are. Fascinating. You add weed dispensaries in there and it's a whole other weird thing. Now we got hippies. Now we got hippies. 39% religious in this town, which is lower than the 50 nationally 24 catholic as we

know catholics are the baptists of the north that's uh the 0.0 jewish which is surprising honestly in the this area uh the in columbia county this is a rural county too uh 57 of the people voted democrat in the last election, 41% Republican, uh, unemployment rate is a little slightly under the national average, but pretty much right there. Uh, medium household, median household income, a little bit higher. You know, uh, normally it's about 57 and a half thousand here, 66,000, a little bit higher, but it's expensive. So you're going to need this. Cost of living, a lot of people in the $75,000 to $150,000 range,

as far as income goes. Cost of living, overall, we have $100,000 is regular, even. Here it is $111,000 total, but housing is a $141,000. There's where it is. High. Median home cost, $325,800 here. Jesus, fuck. Yeah, almost $100,000 more than the national average.

So that's a lot. But if we've convinced you, damn it, you're going to start a farm or some kind of art colony or maybe just some weird sexual retreat, we have for you the Hillsdale, New York, real estate report. Real Estate Report. All right. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $936, which if you can find that, that seems like the way to go because the houses are pretty expensive. And, like, we look just, you know, because you pass through a town, everybody looks to see what it costs to live there and stuff.

Pull up so well yeah it's kind of either like dilapidated kind of little dumps or like sprawling land with like a beautiful house on it that's like a million dollars yeah yeah so uh you're i found a two bedroom one bath it is 1236 square feet so it's you know decent size needs some work uh you're gonna want to it doesn't it's not pretty there's a lot of linoleum it's all linoleum you know what i mean it's, you know, decent size. Needs some work. You're going to want to, it doesn't, it's not pretty. There's a lot of linoleum. It's all linoleum. You know what I mean? It's all 1981. Not a bit of porcelain tile in it.

No, no, no. But $179,000, though, which is half the usual average price of a house. $60,000, that place is tip top. There you go. I found a three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,400, it's a T-bowl for every b-hole there, 2,476 square feet. There you go. I found a three bedroom, three bath, 2,004. It's a T-bowl for every b-hole there. You bet. 2,476 square feet. Hell yeah.

Nice wood floors, updated kitchen and all that stuff. I get it. All move in ready on one acre of land. Okay. Nice place. All very nice. $399,000 though. Not bad.

Not bad compared to what it is that's great it's a nice acre too i mean it's not an acre of dirt it's an acre of grass and beautiful trees and mature trees i found a three bedroom four bath this is just beautiful 3666 square feet gorgeous atop a hill beautiful views of the mountains and hills and valley it's idyllic everything is perfect it's just wonderful the house is gorgeous 14 and a half acres of land of beautiful rolling hill two million three hundred ninety thousand bucks for that oh boy you are gonna pay for that idyllic lifestyle up there. No kidding. No joke with that shit. And a three bed, four bath.

More bowls than assholes in this house. That's right. I like that. I like that. That's a nice feature. I wish I had that. I wish everyone needs that. It's great.

Do you have like extra bathrooms? We don't soil that one. You guys can soil it. The world is a happier place. The more T-bowls for B-holes there are. Things to do in this town. Yeah. I found us the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival.

Wow. Let's get it on, everybody. A day of Falcon Ridge will feature eight performers on two stages. Yeah. Shit, yeah. You want to find out who they are? I sure do. Let's do it.

First off, the Falcon Ridge House ridge house band you gotta have them obviously they're gonna yeah they're gonna play like i assume like little covers and stuff yeah you know in between the other acts maybe pepper in a an original here and there and see if we can insult you go on 20 minutes as well as singer stops throwing up from the night before for the new band uh Tom Rush. Okay. I don't know who that is, but... I think that's somebody that's famous, James. I don't know.

I mean, Rush is a famous band. I don't know about Tom Rush. I don't think he was in Rush. You might know my cousin. He's in Rush, so I just call myself Tom Rush. Vance Gilbert. Nope. Never heard of him. Beats me. I don't know that susan werner i do do i know that name

probably not jimmy i don't think are these folky singers are these like blues i'm sensing a pattern of shit we've never heard up here that's basically that's what i'm sensing uh next up the neilds which is spelled like fields except with an n it's it's neil with a d yeah yeah neil with a ds uh so i assume that's a family maybe i don't know family band kids singing little kid little five-year-old with a tambourine i'm gonna something yeah crystal shawanda is up after that i don't know if it's a band or a person crystal shawanda um the fox run five uh after that which is like fox force five from pulp fiction and then the slambovian circus of dreams will close the main stage i've never heard of any of those people before if that's the headliner that's the headliner the slambovian circus of dreams that's not a country i'm aware of slambovia yeah oh my

grandmother told harrowing tales of her childhood in slambovia oh goodness oh goodness when the marco limus came through to take over it was just a terrible time, she said. It was all the Slambovians ran for the hills. Unbelievable. That's the country that Loompa Land is in, is what that is. Oh, I didn't realize it. You know what? Loompa Land in the country of Slambovia. So it's an Oompa Loompa band.

You can come out and see those. This is an 11 a.m. to 10 p.m festival my christ it's like lollapalooza 11 to 10 of shit you've never seen or heard this is gonna be great this is wild uh this wondrous community stage began as an event for the frff camping community. Oh, boy, here. You can get pods, I guess, because it's all like no contact this year. Pods of one to two people, $100. Mid-size pod up to four people, $200. And a family pod of up to six people are $300. I wonder if they close up and are clear,

because that thing, I would just smoke that shit out. That would be awesome. Is it a tent, or or is it a camping thing? It's a pod. I don't know. I see a clear tent that goes over you. James, I see those little pod containers that they drop in your driveway and you fill it up with shit and then they come pick it up.

You just slide open a little metal window and look out. Oh shit, I think the slambovians are on everybody let's go outside oh man bring and use only your own chairs and blankets okay shit don't take any blankets like the airport now anybody give you any chairs or blankets no i swear have you always had this blanket in your possession where'd you get this blanket huh where'd you pick it up uh free parking no pets no refunds oh boy now all ticket holders names at the gate you can't even give them to somebody else holy shit no scalping of these shits wow that is wild advanced ticket sales ends festival

will endeavor to be as contact free okay uh also it says please arrive with all those to be seated in your pod if possible. We will have a procedure for those unavailable to arrive together. We have a procedure for people like you. You're going to wait. It's like a restaurant. Right. We'll seat you when your whole party gets here.

You're going to have to sit over there. Yeah, go sit by the bar, asshole. So crime rate in this town. Why don't you go have a drink? Yeah. Why don't you go spend 12 bucks a pop on those drinks for you that's the penalty for not showing up together now you got to buy a couple of overpriced drinks yeah pay the toll sir gotta pay the troll toll cross the bridge with you gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole jimmy you know that so danny devito taught us anything so uh crime rate in this town what we're interested in of course what's important uh property crime is about half

the normal uh you know national average here so very low violent crime murder rape robbery and assault the mount rushmore of crime is about a quarter of the national average. Wow. It is. There's no, I don't know how you'd have to walk so far to your neighbor's house through their rolling farm hill to stab them. It's just not worth it. I would imagine. 14 acres there and back. It's a distance.

It's a lot. It's a lot. You change your mind by the time you get there. There's probably a lot of murders started and the people get halfway there and they're like, you know what? I'm not even that upset anymore. Nevermind. I'll send him a letter.

I thought about it and you know he's wrong i'm a little wrong too i'm not gonna lie i shouldn't have left without a water and a sandwich this is a long walk six and one half dozen the other here so shit i'm gonna go home i'm getting hungry let's see what's going on back there the wife's got anything on the table there's no cell reception that's the other thing there's no cell reception in this town. Really? Except like right when you go through the town. So like all these houses you're driving by, you have no reception at all.

So I'm like, how do you live here if you can't even make a phone call? They've got to have like Wi-Fi and they're on Wi-Fi, right? I suppose. Or house phones or one of those crank phones. Fucking landlines? Jesus. One of those crank phones from the 1910. I don't know.

I don't know how it works. You all share a line. So let's talk about a murder. Let's do it. Let's do this. Okay. Let's go back to get into this murder. We need to go back to 2006.

So last week we had an older murder. This week we're going to have a newer murder. And let's catch up with a gentleman in 2006, shall we? Let's talk about a guy named George Mancini. He is 56 years old in 2006. And he is kind of a pretty kind of by the book kind of a guy. He's kind of boring you might say he was a math teacher in pennsylvania for 20 years right so you don't know if you've known a lot of math teachers but they're not the most no wild people as far as that goes they're pretty i mean they're math is a very there are rules and there are things that it's an absolute thing is what it is black and white there are correct answers and there are incorrect answers it's not a matter of philosophy or opinion or just that doesn't equal that that's all so uh he he had some health problems which kept made him kind of retire and that was he said he would have kept teaching if he didn't have some

health problems that you know, kept him from that. He has chronic back pain and also he has a blood disorder that screws him up as well. So he's got, you know, just some illnesses that make it difficult to go to work five days a week. Not sure exactly what kind of blood disorder, but something that affected him enough to where it was, you know, kind of skewed his decision toward retirement, basically, to take an early bleeder. And early people get shot in them. I don't want to bleed out. He's a hemophiliac. He doesn't want to use that big that big cutter there that they have.

Just like the big cutter. You could take a person's head off with that. And they give that to that was in my third grade classroom right next to the pencil sharpener for anyone to use. Give you a guillotine to cut paper. You could have taken a child's arm and chopped it off at the elbow with that thing. I don't know how nobody ever did because, you know, a bunch of maniacs. I guarantee people have lost fingers in those goddamn things. I don't know how you wouldn't.

They're brutal. They're absolutely brutal. You put paper in and then turn your head because shit's about to go crazy. I remember the teacher would be like, hold it with your fingertips, and then they'd cut the paper for us. They wouldn't even let us operate the goddamn thing. Yeah, but we'd do it anyway. Someone, I'm surprised, wasn't like, put your arm in there. Hey, put your arm in there.

Because as a kid, you might think they wouldn't give us anything that we could actually cut an arm off with right i mean we're fucking eight crayola on them we're nine this is good i stopped i stabbed myself in the eye with those scissors it didn't do shit last week so this thing has to be a joke right no way so uh her he was divorced for years now a a couple of two decades, basically. He's been divorced. He has a daughter. He's got kids and everything like that. He's got a brother.

He's got a family. And people say he's a nice guy, basically. Sure. Seems to be a good cat. He graduated from Montclair State University in New Jersey in 1974, taught math, that sort of shit. He played blues as well we've had so many people in stories that are that play blues music isn't that weird yeah like you never know anybody that does it no but in our stories about somebody that did every 20 episodes one of our people who play plays blues music what does he play guitar or what is? I think he's a guitarist. Yeah, a guitarist.

So he had a little problem in 2005. He's in a car accident. Oh, God. And breaks his ankle in a car accident. Fuck. So that's brutal, obviously. You bust your ankle up in a car accident. And when you're 56, too, you're not going to.

And you've got back problems and a blood disorder. There's already plenty of shit. I don't need another. You're not going to be up on your feet doing great again anytime. It takes longer to heal the older you get. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion

that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So he ended up that he was living in Pennsylvania and he just moved to Hillsdale in January of 2006 after his injury.

He was planning on moving there anyway, got injured in the car accident and still followed through on his plans to move his family. A lot of his family thought he was going to stay and he didn't. His sister said that he was she was worried about basically his isolation because it's you know, he's all by himself here now and he's like kind of injured. He can't drive after the accident either. So, you know, he's kind of stuck somewhere on his own with no help and no ability to get around.

Yeah, probably. Yeah. And, uh, she was also, uh, concerned because she heard this,

his sister heard from their parents that apparently he's been having a problem with a guy around town a local guy he's been there in hillsdale where he just moved he's been there a month and he's already having some issues with somebody so um you know very quickly a guy named john hobart the third is his guy he's having issues with you know you don't mess with john hobart the third sounds like a poet that writes reviews yeah no no he's not a poet at all he's no he's a white trash heroin addict it seems to me based on the information that i've seen and his cousin as well has been in the mix because he hangs out around there. So he's been having problems with John Hobart III and his cousin, William Demigol, who is 22 years old.

And William is a machinist, and he's an interesting guy. We'll talk about him for a moment here. Because you look at this and you got Mancini here who, I mean, like I said, he's injured. His life is pretty plain, basically. Gets divorced, has a kid, gets divorced. Daughter says he always saw his kid, didn't run away and do anything crazy, didn't follow the Grateful Dead or anything like that in the early 80s or something. follow the grateful dead or anything like that in the in the you know early 80s or something you know he did his thing did his math teaching you know not feeling well retires moves to this place and now he's like kind of stuck here and uh after injured ankle and he's arguing with some local dipshits he'll build a heroin addict and his fucking machinist cousin and his machinist

cousin who are from this area couple guys with black shit on their face every day somehow it just might be around their face yeah yeah and they didn't even do anything that's the other thing that's on their day off and you're like what are you doing it's just from being around their house yeah just because they have dirty pillowcases right that's all so hashtag woke up like this yeah look at this woke up like this. Yeah. Look at this. Woke up cold dusted. You know, looks like a work in a mine. Yeah. So he is from Pittsfield, which is funny because that's the other place you go for weed.

If you want to go like 40 minutes further. Yeah. Pittsfield is there and they have a bunch of dispensaries as well. So it's that's how these Massachusetts down downer towns are broken down now do they have dispensaries there or not if not we'll be avoiding them if so i might come there and buy some other stuff too see it when one opens you never know so uh he uh he he's born in pittsfield but lived in worthington and then finally his his family settles in Stockbridge. And he was...

Is this Hobart or Hobarth? No, this is William Demigol, our machinist friend here. And he ends up living in New Marlborough around this time when he's 21, 22. His grandmother and his mother have been trying to help him for a long time. He's a guy who basically needs medication, doesn't like taking medication. He's a good guy like that. Like mental health medication? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fuck. Yeah, and doesn't like taking it. I can relate, but look, man. Yeah, this is more serious, too. If you're affected by not taking it. Fucking take it. If not just your life, other people's lives, their lives are affected because of you and your and your medication refusal. Just take the shit.

Yeah, I know. I agree. And we're not trying to tell people, oh, medicate yourselves. That's not what it is. But I mean, Jimmy's a how long have you been in therapy for decades now way too long and so i mean this is not coming from a place of uh fuck you control yourself this is coming from a place of hey if you want to have a life and you need medication well you need if you had cancer you wouldn't just go well i mean i'm fine it's self-awareness is

everything in it you gotta know what what medication is doing to you, and not necessarily what it's doing to you, but what you're doing because of the... You've got to be able to gauge the behavior versus the medication. And if it's affecting other people's lives, you better figure that shit the fuck out, because that's a problem. That's a big problem.

It's a goddamn issue. And it starts around 20 years old. So just recently this started. He has manic episodes, basically. And his dad is bipolar. And his dad talks about it openly, too, that he had problems with this. And he might have had the symptoms earlier, but they started to manifest and show to everybody around this time here. They would start to come more and more often he would have uh certain delusions um with treatment and medication he's absolutely fine right absolutely fine no issues

no incidents yeah functions perfectly he's not like a zombie he's himself he's just take all the shit that all the shit i'm going to tell you about goes away basically when he just takes his medication he's fine tuned he's fine yeah it's exactly right um one time he quits his job and starts becoming a little more just out on his own he at certain times he'll just go live in caves for a while he's got a house now he's got a place to live he'll just disappear and he's living in caves off his beds uh in a cave in a cave and um and he'll and he'll drink too which is his dad said that's his that was his trigger he realized that he couldn't drink it would really you know his illness would be terrible from drinking because it'll more chemical imbalance that's exactly it the chemical imbalance is even more so when you sprinkle alcohol on it that's

that's an issue he um started saying that he was no longer of this world yeah and uh would routinely quote the bible while saying while saying he was the son of christ by the way but that's of this world and because i'm no longer of this world i'm jesus's son let me tell you a psalm and then he would well which is it go back to um yeah and then he would duck back in his cave and he began and this is where that's all you know oh you can oh you feel bad for the guy if he's got a mental illness he's doing this but that's at a certain point he starts carrying a sword with him nope um and claiming okay he uh this is pocket robin level here uh he is claiming to be king arthur yes he carries a sword around claiming to be king hell yeah claiming to be King Arthur. He carries a sword around claiming to be King Arthur and he is in search of the Holy Grail.

Fuck yes. So these are his. You hate to laugh at mental illness. That's what this is. It's fucking and nobody's nobody's crazy. This is this is this is wild stuff right here. I mean, this is just when you're dead serious and say shit like that. You need a hospital and a doctor.

Yes. You need. Yeah, you need something. And his family realizes that. And his parents bring him to the secure psychiatric unit of Berkshire Medical Center in July 2003. Wow. So he stayed there very briefly. And then after his stay, he deteriorated worse, leading up to more hospitalization after that.

This time only for a couple of days in June of 2004. And then in July of 2004, he goes back in again. And this lasts more than two weeks. Um, there, he got put in this time because he threatened his mother when she, uh, showed concern for him.

He was, uh, he threatened her, threatened her harm and said nobody was going to keep him from his freedom. Okay. That's what he said. So they've said, great. Uh, let's go take you here where we are going to keep him from his freedom. Okay. That's what he said. So they've said, great, let's go take you here. We're going to have a chat with you, sir.

Yeah. So you can't do that, obviously. That's when you're threatening people physically, especially your mother, who is obviously concerned about you and not, you know, not an evil person who's sent here from a foreign planet to get inside your brain or any of that shit. Like, you know, it's one thing to think other people that you don't know and be paranoid or whatever but when you start thinking your mother is out to harm you then you probably yeah you need help at that point so uh before wow before he gets out from his third hospitalization

or i'm sorry after he gets out after his third hospitalization he starts um having more issues he comes back with the king arthur thing yeah he uh starts carrying a sword around um he claims to be alternately jesus and the son of jesus okay i don't know he's unsure or if there's my own father we need to get him a a DNA test or if he thinks Jesus is just from West Virginia. I'm not sure. Either way, he believes he's Jesus. He also believes he's Merlin. And we'll get into that in a moment because he does.

He's so sure of that. He does something very interesting to show you how positive he is. He's a fucking wizard. The wizard. Yes. Okay. He's both. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're going to be different people, King Arthur, a wizard and Jesus. you how positive he is he's fucking wizard the wizard yes okay he's both yeah well i mean if

you're gonna be different people king arthur a wizard and jesus are three that's not a bad trio you know to meld together and be that person oh and one other thing he thinks he is quote i don't know what this is quote the bear king oh i don't know what that is. The Bear King. The King of Bears. B-E-A-R. It's coming up on Netflix. Hang on. The Bear King. Yeah. Imagine, dude, this is, I feel for the parents here who are trying to help their kid, because

imagine your son, you have a son, I have a son, imagine he comes home one day with a sword and pronounces he's the Bear King. You're going to be like, what the fuck am i gonna do like it's a not something you know you're gonna feel for your kid that's not good obviously there's a problem if he believes he is merlin the bear king right that's a problem so a good good stern talk with uncle baloo to tell you you're what you are not indeed a bear we are gonna take you in this this is ridiculous smoky is gonna hear about uncle smokey's gonna find out about this i have had it he's going to come over here with his hat and no pants and he's going to show you what to do you get winnie blue there's all of them everybody's

coming through i know a lot of bears i got call the berensteins call them i want the whole family over here he needs to he needs to see there's babies involved no bring them paddington's gonna give you a right spanking you know and then finally the closer of the night yeah the slow slow babian or whatever the fuck it is closer of the night slambovian slambovian closer of the evening teddy ruxpin with a wu-tang clan tape jammed into his back I believe that's the final word. I came to bring the bag. That's Method Man, but yes. He's part of them, but whatever. I did that to my poor little brother.

He had a teddy rock spinning. I just liked watching him move so fast. It was hilarious. Protect your neck, son. Protect your neck, son. Protect your neck, daddy. Sorry. I would love to see Teddy Ruxpin rockin' Busta Rhymes. Or somebody just a speed rapper.

Like Twister with speed knots. Just woo-ha. I mean, it's not true. See, like, bone thugs coming from fuckin teddy ruxpin yeah and then and then fast mumbling for fucking 15 minutes it seems like at a time so good yeah uh so you know he starts at this point um your your your appearance is going to change obviously be when you're merlin the jesus bear king yeah hair's gonna grow long yeah and you're gonna hey also you're looking for the holy grail so i don't know what kind of changes you need to make to make that a better thing for him he takes this as we start wearing all black uh-huh that's his deal um he okay um he fasts for 40 days yeah at one point so doesn't eat for 40

days he claims don't know if this is true or not but he claims he didn't didn't eat for 40 days that's you got to be i don't know what you're eating protein shakes or something something you have to be taken otherwise you're probably going to die in 40 days if you don't eat 40 days is too long i think i think you'll die. I think 10 days is about it, right? I think you can go a month, probably, if you're a little chunky, eating off of your own fat, probably. You'll lose weight. Oh, you're going to be very thin afterwards.

Not healthy at all. He also stopped sleeping for a while. Oh, boy. He also stopped sleeping for a while. Oh, boy. Didn't sleep, which is indicative of a manic state of epic proportions if you're not sleeping at all. And then he also returned to his cave in the woods where he would live for a while. He began again becoming preoccupied with the Bible and Arthurian legends, arthur stuff and uh then began talking frequently about the world ending as well became a survivalist apocalyptic type of person early adopter of it

i feel you bud today he's got a lot going on very common oh one more thing he uh He tattooed his own forehead. With what? Let's talk about that. With, oh boy. He tattooed his own forehead using a little mirror so he could see some India ink and a hunting knife. What does it say backward? Oh, it's not a word. It is a tattoo of a small figure with horns. Oh boy. He drew.

He said it was, quote, Merlin's marking. Yikes. So that's how you know he's Merlin, because he carved a little guy with horns on his forehead. I didn't know Merlin had a tattoo at all. No, no, no. Yeah, I didn't realize that either. Apparently, he's going to mark you if you're the new Merlin. There you go.

Now, also, this is all stuff that came out later. So keep this in mind and hang in there and just hear us out, okay, on all of this stuff. Now, William's father, Stephen, he said he knew the signs of the mania because he had them himself. He said he'd been treated at the Berkshire Medical Center as well several times for his bipolar disorder he said that he learned over time that his mania is triggered by alcohol which he figured out from five convictions for drunk driving so good lesson sir good lesson whether it's triggering triggering your mania or not still stop drinking that's you're not doing well um so later on his father will say he's been psychotic for a number of months he is bipolar which i am too he's in a very manic phase and

dangerous to himself and others he knows weapons and has them has had them all his life knives guns crossbows and is a survivalist in the woods so oh, boy. That's what's going on here. So November of 2005, so before, Stephen Demigal, William's father, said that he had to contact state police and told them of weapons that his son had stockpiled in caves. So he's stockpiling weapons in caves. Yeah. Caves. New York Waco.

Yeah. At the Monument Mountain in Stockbridge. He said that the arsenal included black powder guns, crossbows, and hunting knives. Black powder guns. Like Civil War era guns. That's a black powder. I don't know if he's going to shoot a musket ball at somebody or what but those aren't generally it's got like pirate guns but also black powder is very unstable as well so if you have it and it hasn't been stored properly or it's old it becomes a problem

at that point so it's got to be stored well his father also said quote he was a very avid hunter a bow hunter he's one of the best shots you will ever see around really so the police went and went cleaned out the cave they said but they didn't find anything that they were talking about there so yeah now back to demigol and hobart bothering george mancini our retired teacher here now hobart is a apparently alleged allegedly a heroin addict and he would drive mancini around for a couple of bucks to do errands because he can't drive so basically he's introduced mancini's introduced to hobart through a relative of his uh that he knew barely knew the guy but whatever and mancini offered him hey i'll pay a few bucks

if you'll drive me around it's cheaper than uber or whatever a cab so you drive me around and this guy's a junkie so he'll take a few bucks and be happy with it so he does that drives him around uh this is in uh uh like late january 2006 this is going on um apparently he uh at one point during this now he just had this terrible accident mancini and he's got this ankle injury so one thing if you're you know 56 years old and you have a bad ankle injury they are going to give you drugs you betcha good drugs too like you know that work prior to the hill the the whole pillbilly shit that was happening in florida exactly throwing them at you handfuls whatever you want well he has delotted oh which what delotted is um if you've ever seen drugstore cowboy with matt dylan uh and kelly lynch it's a great fucking movie but they're the plot is this group of junkies go around to drugstores

and they have heather graham there who is 18 at the time in this movie it's made in like 92 or something they have her looking all innocent fake and epileptic seizure in a pharmacy so everybody swarms to this young you know looking girl who's having an epileptic seizure while that's going on matt dillon and the other dude hop over the counter and steal steal drugs and just take whatever they can and bounce. And then they get home and see what the fuck they got, basically. And they start divvying it up and they sell the shit they don't want to get the shit they do want, whatever. Wow.

But their holy grail was Dilaudid. When they got some Dilaudid, they were like, oh, there it is. We got it. Oh, boy. When I had my appendix out, they gave that to me and warned me that i was only going to get a little bit because it's super addictive but when soon as it soon as it hit my vein i was like oh boy that is magic this is what they give you if you have like horrifically like uh terminal bone cancer they give you this if you are in unbelievable pain this will make

you feel none of it i suppose if you shatter an ankle and or have a blood disorder maybe you that's part of it so apparently hobart went with william demigol to mancini's apartment and knocked on the door and willie mancini opened the door for him he knows him him. And they wanted some Dilaudid. So at this point, they apparently begged him for some Dilaudid. Please, we really want some. Yeah, they didn't have any money. And Mancini said, no, not giving you my fucking Dilaudid. This is my prescription.

You're not getting it. And they wouldn't give it to him. So that was it. So about a week later, Mancini's apartment is robbed. And oddly, they got all of his drugs it's very weird knew all got all of his pills but somebody tried the porridge and laid in the beds yeah they're like just right so this is fucking wild so he is now mancini's calling around to people he knows asking for advice of how to deal with these people because he feels like pretty sure who robbed me.

Right. It's these two guys. I can't prove it, but, you know, they're bothering me now and got kind of a beef with them. And I don't know what's going on. Sometimes there's no coincidences, officer. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So they don't know. Mancini was talking about possibly going to the police, but he said, I don't really have anything concrete, so I don't know what to do, essentially.

Now, while he's worrying about this, Demigol's having his own issues. February 3rd, he is taken back to the hospital, which is a locked psychiatric unit, after his grandmother tells authorities that he visited her. He was not allowed to visit her. He had restraining orders because he had threatened her life. He's broken her house. He's pretty much all of his relatives, not all of them, but a couple of his relatives. He's broken into their houses, stole their shit. He's got a drug problem.

It seems like that's all there is to it. So he's yeah, he's mentally ill and has a drug problem he's breaking into people's houses threatening people physically he's he's completely out of control essentially like something needs to be done here uh previously there was a complaint known as a section 12 which had been issued because someone uh that's issued when someone determines that he's a threat to himself or others. That's what that's called there. And a 50. Exactly. That's what it is here. He said that he was this again.

He repeated that he would, quote, hurt anyone who tried to keep him from his freedom. So that's what he said. So obviously they kept putting him back in the institutions here. And then finally, on February 9th, 2006 uh this is about 5 55 p.m he's in an outdoor courtyard of the facility because you can go out and get some air and stuff sure and you know you know those wrought iron gates like they have at schools in arizona around them that are just like a an eight foot tall 10 foot tall fence with the maybe four inch apart wrought iron bars. And that's the thing.

That's what they have there on the outside. He slips through the bars. Wow. How fucking skinny is this guy? Well, he's been fasting and he's been fat. Yeah. A fasting cave dwelling heroin addict is going to be pretty thin guy.

Whip it thin. I would think he's going to be able to squeeze. What is that? Whip it thin. Yeah. Thin dog. Like a dog? Yeah. They're real thin. I've never heard of that, but that's funny.

Is that a thing, or did you just say it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. Have you ever heard it before? Maybe. I'm not positive. I think so. Yeah, that's a saying, isn't it? I don't know now. You said whip it. I was like, the dog? And then you said thin. I was like, and they are thin. Yeah, I think I've heard it before, maybe. I don't think I made that up. I've never heard it, but it's funny.

That might be something I heard when I was like seven and stored until now, and it just came out, and it knew to come out right now. I don't know how. It sure does. Pains of Picasso is what that is is that paints a picture right away especially even for a dummy like me yeah i can see a whippet going through a door that's him you know picture that whippet with a guy with horns on it tattooed on his forehead with a knife and some ink that's what we got going on here dragging a sword behind him talking about the grail is eastward. So he slips out of the Berkshire Medical Center, 5.55. Within five minutes, the hospital staff notices that he's gone. Hey, where's that weirdo?

Hey, where's that guy? Yeah, he's noticeable. You notice when he's not around. He doesn't blend in. So within five minutes, the hospital staff notifies the police and a dispatcher, you know, calls out a radio call to officers that tell him to be on the lookout for him, saying he just left the psychiatric ward. You know, yada, yada, yada, basically. My night was out there. Yeah, he's out there.

We'll take a look out. February 9th at 618 p.m. Now we're going to break down in the times. The staff from the hospital calls police to ask for its fax number. Then they fax. They call again to provide more details on William Demigol and to say that he might have a connection to other Berkshire towns. Maybe you look for him there in the Berkshire area. And the dispatcher tells the hospital to call the police department in those towns.

They literally says, well, that ain't my problem what i would do is i would uh look up the number to those police departments and call them because i ain't fucking doing it here's the thing i'm in public health you're in public safety you fucking call why i'm calling you to tell you to do that you would imagine there's some sort of alert they could probably send out to the police departments in the area some you know what i mean i'm sure they all have a community like you know community not a message board but yeah there should be something yeah talk to each email just send out a group email hey everybody look for this guy something right i don't know. What the fuck? I don't give a shit.

Apply all somebody. Send one of those fucking Evites or whatever where they bother you every three days to see if you're going to come or not. Send one of those from 2006. I'm trying to think in 2006, what are your options? One of those annoying things. We'll text one thing, right? Sure, why not? Yeah, you could text more than one person in 2006. Yeah.

You had cameras on your phone by then. There was Blackberries popping off so jesus christ they said why don't you go ahead and call those towns um so they uh at that point the hospital faxes the pittsfield police which was the ones who said you go ahead and call the other towns they send the section 12 complaint which allows officers to hold him if they find him because that's what they were lacking otherwise it's just like okay what do you want from us they need the formal complaint that says you know it's like having a warrant i can hold you because you are escaped from a psychiatric facility where you need to be so um the police uh then had the authority

to take him there after that so 7 32 pm., the hospital security calls police to say that Demigol is a, quote, survivalist who may be headed toward the woods. I don't know if the dispatcher said, I don't know, call the woods and tell them. What are you fucking telling me for? Call the holler. Call Yogi Bear and tell him. He's one that we didn't really talk about. Who was his little friend

um boo-boo boo-boo that's right i love that was good you can't say it normal so uh you might be headed toward the woods and then february 9th 7 39 p.m few minutes later they just keep getting calls from the hospital a A doctor now calls the police to tell them that Demigol is, quote, very dangerous, including saying, quote, I just want you to understand the severity of this.

That's what he tells them. Here is transcripts from this phone call here. They said, here's the dispatcher, okay, and they say, quote, the name talking about, I'm this doctor over at the hospital i've got to tell you about a patient who we had up here who escaped from a secure courtyard cop says okay his name is william denigal send you know spells name um they said quote hang on

a second okay sure this is you know they they take another call and then come back. What takes call? This is on the official transcript. Takes call returns. That's the official police. Please hold is the thing I've ever heard. Yeah. We say there's a murderer on the loose, a potential dangerous person. Wait a second. I got a I got a guy on the. This is an important lady. I'm going to have to get back to you. I got a guy on the other line about some white walls. He gave the Lou Brown from Major League deal there. So he says, all right, William Demigol. And the doctor says, yes, he's a 22-year-old guy.

And the cop says, white male? And they say, yeah, white male. It's Pittsfield and this area. Does anything else exist? Yes. White male. White male. He's Pittsfield and this area. Does anything else exist? Yes. White male. White male. He's about 5'5", maybe 130 pounds.

That's how he squeezed through the bars. Can you please hold? Hold on a second. Wait, goddammit. No, my wife's calling. Hold on. I've got to pick the kids up later. Wait a second.

I've got to take this. Okay, white male, 24. No, 25. Go on. I'm listening. So, short, light hair. He's probably wearing several hooded kind of jackets and sweatshirts and jackets. I guess because he stays warm.

It's cold out. It's February. It's cold up in this area. And one time we were driving there and it was raining and not that cold. And we hit this area and it started snowing like a bastard. Like, holy shit. Yeah. When did that happen so they

said okay the doctor then says he's with us he's uh been up here because he's kind of dangerous to himself and others also as well he just he has just suggested certain things so i just wanted to notify you so the police say so he's out on foot somewhere in the area there. And the doctor says, yes, he was last seen about seven minutes ago. He was going toward the front of the hospital. If you know where the courtyard is within the hospital. And cop says, okay, I'm going to tell our guys. Thank you very much. End of call.

618. I got to go. I got to go now. See you later. 618 p.m. This doctor calls back. And he says, hi again. This is me again.

How's it going? Pretty good. How are you? Not bad. Just hanging. You know, a small talk. Can you hold a second? Wait a second.

Got a lot going on here. Wait one second. No, hold on. Our pizza's here. I got to put you on hold. I got to sign for this. He said, I just called you a bit ago about the person who ran away from the section of the hospital. I've got a section 12 here, which the doc here has issued for him.

I'd like to fax it over to you. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. Calls back again. Hey, this is that young man I was telling you about that we're looking for at this point. Hold on a second here. I got a guy on the other line. Fuck.

He says he has connections up in adams and stockbridge and i was wondering is it something we should connect with the police departments up there if he goes there or is that something that you guys do uh you guys do to work through this and that's when the cop says no that's something you're gonna have to do if you want to send them uh section 12s as well in case they run across him he says okay that that better not be fucking policy today i would hope not i would hope you can just take it in and then just be be the central clearing yes that sounds like a police officer being like don't tell me how to do my job sir yeah listen i got i'm handling this all right asshole so he says at this point hey uh again hey this is jeff at security calls back again you have got uh

you got that call about that guy that kid i don't know if they told you uh when he took off he was headed up towards springside parkway uh springside park that way so i just i don't know if you were told that or not i just wanted to give you a little heads up he might have went that way toward the woods if they could have got all their information together at once and called all at once rather than a doctor than a security guy yeah throwing out little tidbits here and there that doesn't seem very everybody put on hold yeah this is not efficient at all so he says again because i don't know if they told you this guy's a survivalist. He lives in a cave in the woods west in West Stockbridge or Stockbridge. The cop says, oh, probably like, oh, what a crazy fuck.

OK, great. Wonderful. He says, and so he'll probably probably be headed toward the woods if he can find any. And they said, OK, well, I have to give it all to my guys to look for him. All right, fine. So they call back again hi may i speak with the sergeant this time oh boy hold on they get the sergeant sergeant fitzgerald this is dr levine now calling oh now we got a doctor talking to the sergeant we're going above

above people's heads the cop says how you doing no okay we don't need small talk how's the wife and kids don't fucking care fitzgerald here go on yeah go on what's your problem yeah yeah you know what's your emergency or whatever the fuck you want to say hold on a minute shit now he put me on hold so uh he said good i just wanted to i'm good first of all terrific says good i just wanted to make sure it was clear that this person, William Demigol, is quite dangerous. Sergeant says, William who? Oh, no. He hasn't been getting around. He's heard nothing.

Heard nothing. You know, the cave survivalist with the machete, that guy. Who thinks he's the bear king and Jesus and King Arthur and carries a sword and a crossbow. You know, that guy you might want to keep an eye out for. Riveting story. Tell me more. So he says, Demigol. And he says, oh, okay.

He escaped from the highest level of care, the psychiatric intensive care unit, and I'm very, very concerned about his safety and the safety of others. I don't know how much of the story you've gotten, but he's a survivalist. He lives in the woods in Stockbridge in two caves. Two caves.

He has a lot of guns and knives that are in his possession. He has a lot of guns and knives that he has that are in possession of the police department down there. When they cleared the cave, they found a couple things. The police department in Stockbridge is very familiar with this guy.

Okay, that's the answer. The doctor says he is very dangerous. He's almost like waiting for the sergeant to go like, oh, we'll keep an eye out then or something. Like, I'm worried. He's looking for the right response and not getting it at all right now. That's what it is. He says he's very dangerous.

We're filing in court to keep him committed in the hospital. in filing in court to keep him committed in the hospital one of the suggestions of a security guard who knows him is that he was headed towards springside park because that's where he would be most comfortable to go he was heading in that direction so the cop goes so you think he might be going over there yeah no i just said that because i'm fucking bored how's your family oh you got a hole put me on hold great perfect i'm not sure where he's going because i'm a doctor not a cop i'm just giving you the information so you can go do some cop shit and save people from getting knifed up so you think he might be going over there hold please son of a bitch uh so the doctor says very possibly but i just want you to understand the severity of this and how dangerous he is. How many times have they said this?

Yeah. He's making it very clear that you need. Yeah, it's a bad man. If you had basically if a tiger escaped from the zoo, whatever you would do for that, this is what I need you to try to do right now because he's that dangerous. He says, I just want you to understand the severity of this and how dangerous he is and that we have a section 12 that's been faxed over so he can be brought back in and he says okay and they said all right and the cop goes yep yep yeah oh god i hate that word gives him a yep and then he says then you call the nurses station uh and he gives him the number if you could let us know how the search is going so they basically can you here's our

number you know Let us go. And he says, quote, if we come up with him, I'll ring it up. Just real casual about the whole thing. Oh, boy. Real casual about a person whose doctor is saying he's the severity of the danger that he poses. He's like, yep. That's a sergeant that's not familiar with mental illness, I have a feeling. Not on this level. Well, and also, the drugs are also an issue here that I think, and we're going to get into this, of what exactly his motivations are for anything he's doing right now.

But anyway, his father also calls, William's father, Stephen. He said he made numerous attempts to alert the pittsfield police uh to his son's condition he he kept you know he called uh he said that uh he said he called and gave the pittsfield police uh the name of a man he suspected who his son would go for to for a ride yeah um he told the officers his son would likely meet up with his cousin, John Hobart. And he said the police told him to contact that town himself. Well, contact the town where his cousin lives then, because that's not us. Oh, boy.

That's amazing. Unbelievable. That's pretty fucking amazing, honestly. It's a level of cavalier that is not, that's too far. That's a little not our problem uh not my job that's not my job isn't taken to the and i i'm sure that there's policies or whatever that prevent people from doing this so it's probably i'm not saying it's an individual person's fault it might be a you know an issue of the what rules have been set forth and what exact you know things you're

supposed to do here what uh protocol this supposed it to be. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called

Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to

hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later,

what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime,

part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the

Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So 9.24 p.m. now, a couple hours have gone by. A two-page report is sent from the hospital to the police department, all of them countywide,

is sent from the hospital to the police department, all of them countywide, describing Demigol as a dangerous person, warning that he stockpiled knives and guns in the woods, enlisting several places where he might have gone, including caves and his father's former apartment in Pittsfield or maybe even Vermont. So then they also, not only do they fax it, a security officer from the medical center hand delivers a copy of the report as well, just in case they didn't get it. Demigol's father called the next morning and asked them to send an officer to his former apartment to see if maybe his son is hiding there.

Police show up. He's not there. So where the fuck is William? I'd love to know well he uh he left the the facility and went and stayed in a cave near stockbridge for the night yes he's got his caves where he goes and no one's gonna search a you know find people and if someone knows the caves and they don't want to be found you're not going to find them at night you're just not in the caves because he escaped 555 is dark in february he escapes into the night you're never going to find this guy so uh february he does that then he goes in the morning to his cousin's house john hobart goes there he doesn't

knock on the door though he crawls into a car and sleeps there until morning so he leaves the cave like you know early early morning and then gets in the car until eight nine a reasonable time where you can go knock on you can knock on nice people's doors you can't be knocking on people's doors at 5 a.m like the trailer park boys sleeping in a car yeah so in the morning he asked his cousin if he could have please have a ride out of state because he doesn't want to go back to the facility, basically. So can you drive me out of state? And then he also says, but before we do that, we should rob George Mancini and take his morphine and Dilaudid. That's what we should do first.

Let's let's make a stop on the way out of state to rob this guy of all of his heroin fucking offshoot drugs here. That's what we're looking for. Yeah. So that's the plan. Okay. 8.58 a.m. on February 11th now. So the next day.

Yeah. February 11th, 8.58 a.m., firefighters respond to a report of a fire in an apartment building they show up and determine pretty quickly that the fire is arson right um it is uh it is emanating from george mancini's apartment oh no and when they get inside um they find uh some a pretty fucked up scene that we'll talk about in a second here so that afternoon though not knowing of any of this william demigol's father files an official missing persons report at 309 p.m and demigol's and uh entered into the national database of missing persons so that way he's been looking now everybody's looking for him so what the fuck

happened okay well let's talk about it uh hobart apparently hobart drove him over to drives demigol over to mancini's house and hobart doesn't know exactly how to rob him or what to do there so demigol says tell you what i got this don't you even sweat it okay so apparently he knocked on the door and this is early in the morning we're talking you know eight o'clock in the morning it's not you know one in the afternoon or anything knocks on the door george mancini lets him in um They have a conversation where I assume he is trying to figure out a way to get the drugs from him. After, apparently, George refuses, doesn't want to give him anything. So what William does is he pulls out a pocket knife that he has and begins to repeatedly stab him in the chest.

Oh, my. over 30 times william will have his own estimate of an exact number of stab wounds uh how big a knife is this pocket knife is it like a swiss army knife or is it like it's not like a you know a nail clipper knife it's a pocket knife probably a three inch blade four inch blade yeah something that's you know legal to have in your pocket one of those type of knives. Yeah, exactly. Stabs him tons of times in the chest, all sorts of times. He then looks him in the eyes. He said that he's begging for his life at this point, George.

William looks him in the eyes from what he says in order to, quote, see his soul as he dies. That's what he wants to do. He wants to see his soul as he dies yeah he wants to do he wants to see his soul and then he told him that he was already dead which i mean the guy was like well i mean i probably like to be at this point you've stabbed me 30 times but i'm not but he's not dead george mancini he's just pleading for his life so what he does is he puts his pocket knife away and he takes something else out that he had in his pocket pre-prepared by the way he didn't just put this together he had a paperweight inside of a sock oh my god which

is a brutal weapon full metal jacket style geez yeah but with a paperweight at least soap if you drop soap it breaks it dents you know what i mean if you fucking a paperweight's a goddamn rock most of the time so or a piece of something heavy plastic or metal or some shit with a with a like a dove bar on it probably move it yeah and ivory isn't holding that paper down a lot of it so he takes this the paperweights and it's a glass paperweight in this and a paperweight. Solid glass is very heavy to make paperweights. And the toe of the sock, obviously, holds it and begins to beat him, begins to beat George Mancini's head as he begged for his life. He said that he beat him until he could, Jesus fucking Christ, wow, until he could, quote, see his brain coming out of his ear. Oh, no.

That's a lot of beating. That's absolutely horrific. After this, he took his knife and his paperweight and he soaked the weapons in the sink for a while. Just put them in a nice filled the sink up let them soak for a minute as you do you know you don't want to it's like when you're baking with something you you got to soak it or else you're going to scrub forever when it gets caked on forget it forget about it throw that fan away yeah so what do you do while your stuff is soaking i mean you know he's this isn't his house he doesn't have much to do so he goes shopping around the

house for stuff he'd like to steal and take with him, including the guy's sleep apnea machine. I assume you can sell that. Yeah. Those are worth money. A box of harmonicas. A box of harmonicas. What are you going to sell them for? I got harmonicas.

Two bucks. I mean, wow. What's a harmonica worth? 12 bucks? I mean, wow. What's a harmonica worth? 12 bucks? I mean, I guess a box of them. I'm sure a really nice one is expensive, but I don't know what makes a really nice one. They probably don't come by the box, a really nice one. They probably are sold individually, I would assume.

I bet the good ones are engraved. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, the real nice. That's the only good part about them, right. A box is probably some throwaways. You keep one in your car, you keep one over here. If you drop one and you let it go, I don't know. Plastic ones you get out of a pinata.

Yeah, all sorts of pinata harmonicas. You know how that is. A pinata harmonica. Also takes his car keys, a check, some clothes, you know, that sort of stuff, and about $270 in cash that he found in the guy's room. So he really tossed his fucking place looking for what he thought was valuable. Now, his idea is once his weapons are all soaked, he collects that and he's like, OK, what I'd like to do is get Mancini and pull him into a closet and stuff him in there for a while and just stuff them in the closet and then leave. And then no one will find him for a few days and it'll be great.

He tries to do that. And he's, he's a little guy. First of all, he's not a big guy. And second of all, he's got an injured collarbone apparently. Um,

and it's hurting. So he can't pull George Mancini into the closet. Demigod. He's got one. Demigod has an injured shoulder and he can't pull mancini into the closet so he's like fuck now this whole time dislocated getting out of that tiny ass fence that's why i was thinking about that that's possible um now but at the same time hobart is in the car the whole time he's hanging out waiting outside thinking like oh maybe he's

getting drugs so anyway uh he instead says okay fuck well i can't i can't move him he's in the middle of the goddamn living room what do i do here i mean here's what i'll do i'll get anything that's flammable in the house so he gets paper styrofoam anything that will light on fire and piles it on top of george mancini basically just makes a big viking fucking funeral fire on top of this guy and lights it up lights it on fire with it george mancini and then he uh barricades the back door so nobody can get in and locks the front door and leaves okay so it's extra hard for the firefighters to get in when it's called in yeah okay he's locking the fire in there it needs oxygen shit science is lost on him but go i don't know i

think he's beyond science and there's probably enough oxygen at least and it's on fire i mean it's pretty it's pretty well on fire but also you gotta put like hawaiians will bury natives will bury a pig underground for like eight hours while it's on fire this is not eastern there's a lot of cooking like that and then you pull the pig out and it's still whole you know this is not going to get rid of this body no it's going to burn it make yeah it'll make it gross but it's not going to all the amazon packaging on the planet is not going to incinerate a body no and i don't know and we've seen how many times have we seen people try to burn bodies on this show where and they gave it real tries they put it in an oil drum and put gasoline all over it or you know they had accelerants they had all this shit and it still doesn't burn up and you

still can't it's really hard we're gonna put a lady in a fire for what police called several hours at high temperatures and she was still there it's just hard to do it's hard to burn a fucking body it's not an easy thing if that's what hard to do. It's hard to burn a fucking body. It's not an easy thing. If that's what you think is your plan, that's not a good plan. So it's really not a good plan. And this is like, you know, I don't know. This is okay.

If your plan, if your idea was I want to drag him in the closet, that's so nobody finds him for a few days. So you have a little escape. Right. If you left him in the middle of the living room, at least it gives you some time. No one's going to come in in the next 10 minutes, probably. Maybe some one of his relatives two days from now or something. If you set him on fire. Police will get there fast. They'll get there in an apartment, especially.

People are attached to that place. When you said apartment fire, I was like, that is dangerous as shit. There's people. Oh, yeah. You could kill everybody at that point. And it's the morning, too. There's going to be. When you said apartment fires like that is dangerous as shit. There's people. Oh, yeah. You could kill everybody at that point. And it's the morning. It's like eight. It's like 8 a.m.

There'll be people sleeping. Who the fuck knows what's going on. So but he takes off and leaves it there. And I guess he thought that was going to be an advantageous thing for him. He then leaves that apartment and walks to the place where his cousin Hobart is going to pick him up. He's got a prearranged meeting spot there. Now, after that, he says, can you drop me off? I'm not going to stay with Hobart.

Can you drop me off at the motel in the town of Shodak? So that's where he ends up going, to a motel, because he has $270 now. Right. So big man, he's going to go there. Three-night stay. He's going to rent motel because he has 270 bucks now right so big man he's gonna go there three nights stay he's gonna rent a room using hobart's name so he rents a room which i mean he's a he knows he's a wanted man probably he escaped from a fucking high security mental facility he's probably wanted the following day so he stays over there that night he's fine okay now we've heard some crazy shit the following day it gets crazier this this may be the the the weirdest thing that anybody in any

of our stories has ever done and that includes dismemberment and everything else this is paperweight beatings beyond this this is might be the weirdest thing anyone's done. The thing that I've ever heard with the least chance of success is this right here. Yeah. He goes into a Rite Aid. Yeah. Okay. Rite Aid is a drugstore, pharmacy, Walgreens, basically, CVS, whatever your equivalent to that is where you live. So he goes in there.

He goes to the pharmacy section. And he unsuccessfully,fully obviously this has never worked in the history of mankind he tries to barter some like costume jewelry fake costume jewelry that he stole for morphine at the pharmacy if that's not pharmacy bro dead giveaway that you should not have these drugs or that you're an addict, what the fuck did he think was going to happen? He walked into a legitimate pharmacy with like hundreds of locations, not like a back of someone's van.

And he said, hi, I have no prescription and no money. I've got a pirate costume. What I do have is a lovely brooch. Now, this is played by Billy Joel. Can I trade it? What in the fuck is he thinking in this case? He had better options of things to barter and he's going with costume. And that's just that's just crack behavior there

that's just i mean that's just i've never heard of that before that's absolutely getting police called right now that's crazy then he leaves there and they call the police after he leaves like that seems suspicious i mean that's not normal right that's not normal we've literally never had that happen in the history of pharmacies. He literally said, I'll suck your dick. Yeah. Or I have this lovely jewelry. No, that's a real sapphire. Okay.

So then he goes to a nearby Burger King after that. He's really going to try that? I got these cheeseburgers, man. No, no, no. He realized this is what's amazing you can see the process he realized okay well shit i no one's gonna take costume jewelry as a form of currency yeah this isn't a good thing i need a job damn it i need to make some money so he goes to burger king and fills out a job application

the burger king wow in his cousin's name jimmy he's gonna get somebody else hired and he's gonna show up for the job i don't know who gets paid that's the other thing you get a check in your cousin's name you can't cash that right the fuck are you thinking so that's not gonna work um so he heard that he saw police officers every burger king is is all windows. So he sees police outside. Now, you never know. Police could be getting a burger. I mean, everybody eats lunch. So he hides in the bathroom.

Okay. He hides in the bathroom. And the cops, by the way, are just there to eat burgers. They're there for the Whopper meal deal. I think they had two for fives going on and they were excited about it. They're not there for him. He goes, Whopper meal deal. I think they had two for fives going on, and they were excited about it. They're not there for him. That's a great deal. He goes, it's a great deal.

He goes into the bathroom and then comes out thinking, well, they got to be gone or something eventually here, leaves the restaurant. The cops are in the parking lot, I guess, eating their food, doing whatever, talking, regrouping. I don't know what the fuck they're doing in the fast food parking lot, but they're sitting in there. regrouping i don't know what the fuck they're doing in the fast food parking lot but they're sitting in there whereas he then walks up to the police officers with his hands up they're not even looking at him by the way they haven't given him a second thought he approaches them hands up and

said are you looking for me yeah the guy's like hold on a minute they put pickles on my shit what now what do you want i told them no pickles. They gave me onion rings. Can you hold for a second? Wait. Even in person. Shit. So they are, they talk to them. They're like, ah, we're not, not really.

No, we're just eating Burger King. Why? Should you be, should we be looking for you? If you ask a cop with your hands up, are you looking for me? They're going to have followup questions. They're not just going to go, nope. And then you go, all right, cool. And walk away. That's not how that exchange is going to go gonna go depends on how lazy that cop is but

yeah that's generally it they're probably gonna go whoa whoa whoa pal come back for a minute wait a second here now it's gonna look at you want to do the paperwork i don't want to no we're not that's that's suspicious i mean that's just that's very suspicious right there. So you're not looking for me, are you? Hands up. So he ends up, they talk to him, and they say, well, who are you? And he goes, I'm John Hobart. He's just, I'm John Hobart now. He was like, I didn't want to tell him I was the Bear King right away. I didn't want to get him too excited about it. That's not a good opener.

I'm the Bear King. They're like, yeah, right. That's who. You got to dip a toe in first and get used to the water. So he gives him Hobart's name. Then he finally gives him his real name. And they know that they're supposed to be this guy's name is out there. It's a small town.

It's not like they're looking for a ton of escape mental patients at this point. So they detain him, which they just hold him for a minute and pat him down and they find the pocket knife and also the paperweight in the sock he still has in his pocket which is a wild weapon to just carry around the streets it's effective as fuck but you just don't hear it very often he filled out an application with those in his pockets oh yeah when i was a kid like kids used to carry around like a hammer or a screwdriver or some shit like that that could technically be denied. It's a weapon. But I've never heard of. I'm just going to put a rock in a sock and carry it with me as a weapon. That's a weird one. Wow. So, yeah, this all happens. And, you know, they bring him in. Now, the autopsy shows stab wounds multiple and many stab wounds, to Mancini's chest and back. They said none of the stab wounds were lethal, though. Really?

None of them were lethal. The fatal blows came from bludgeoning wounds to his face and jaw. Forceful enough to cause a lethal brain injury that would have killed him within a minute or two. injury that would have killed him within a minute or two they said so uh knife wounds to his left arm and wrists suggest a man that was trying to defend himself from a knife attack obviously he's got defensive wounds and uh he had mancini had no internal signs of smoke or soot inhalation so he was dead before the fire was lit which we knew that because he he went and soaked his weapons and walked around and went he went shopping first before he set him on fire right so um yeah he tried to trade i'm just blown away by that still i'm sorry that's fucking insane he tried to trade for morphine he even knew that harmonicas are worthless yeah he's like fucking throw those out he traded fake jewelry before he tried with the

harmonicas yeah so now he's arrested not for murder or anything he is arrested for trying to get morphine without a prescription uh apparently you can't try to barter for morphine at rite aid that's a that's an illegal i feel like i'm the lady in love after lockup i knew it was a rule i didn't know it was a law. It's one of those, I think. That's what he's saying. That was my favorite line in all of Love After Lockup. There's motherfucking crack, and there's... I knew it was a rule.

I didn't know it was a law. Evidently, as a guard, you're not allowed to date slash fuck prisoners. Weird, right? That's strange. Not just a rule, James. Nope, to date slash fuck prisoners. Weird, right? That's strange. Not just a rule, James. Nope, not a rule. It's a law. So he's arrested, and they're minor charges.

So he's released from jail on February 15th. As Hobart, though. No, no. He said who he was now. Okay, got it. But he's released from jail, and upon exiting the jail, he is approached by an investigator with the Columbia County Sheriff's Department and also an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents. Yeah, they're getting involved, too. He agreed to talk to them.

And what comes now is an 11-page telling of what happened. I'm not going to do 11 pages, but he wrote out an 11-page confession. Oh, it's all in his handwriting? Holy shit. It's all, yeah. Okay, well, let's get into his confession. Now, he said that this was a premeditated murder. He said that.

Premeditated. He's been planning this. He said it was a murder of the snake who was George Mancini. He said that not only was it planned, it was planned for a while under the nickname for himself that he gave it, quote, Operation Cobra. Oh, God damn it. Operation Cobra because Mancini was a snake. See, that's how that works. Operation Cobra. so now he's

like leonard lake he's turned into now where everything's an op right so that leonard lake had he called everything an op killing women was an op it was he's fucking nuts so um he's cooperative uh at first first he denied that he was ever even in columbia county or ever went to mancini's house he's like i don't know what you're talking about. They pushed him a little bit, though. And then he said, OK, yeah, I was in the house. I went there, you know, and try to get some drugs. But I didn't like touch him or do anything to him.

I just left. And, you know, I don't know what he died. Fuck, that's rough. Yeah, I'll hold, you know. Cop leaves, comes back. There's nothing funnier than 911 putting you on hold. That's amazing. While you're telling them about a dangerous escaped mental patient, literally.

I'm going to see if this other phone calls more dangerous. Hold on. Yeah, there could be like five bears with machine guns, actually, at this very moment. But that's the call you wait for at 911. That's the most dangerous. It hasn't happened yet. You can save lives. That's what it is.

You say he's armed and dangerous and looking to cause harm. So, yeah, first of all, I didn't do anything to him. I was in the house. And then, finally, he said, quote, I did it. I beat him. I stabbed him. And I beat him. After I killed him, I in the house and then finally he said quote i did it i beat him i stabbed him and i beat him after i killed him i lit the body on fire so he gives him that and then he agrees to give the formal statement to both uh a detective and the person for the atf and uh three and a half hours it took him to go through the whole thing. Wow. He describes it twice, goes through it once, and then the second time they write it down, you know, to make sure it's accurate, basically. You got to get it twice.

They said they delivered him Miranda rights more than once during all this, too. They kept delivering those. That was in the record. So the first thing they were like, is this random? And then he was like oh no operation cobra like no way like you're talking about here this is obviously an organized operation i got going on he said that during the weeks preceding the hospitalization on february 3rd he was living in the woods okay and two weeks before the murder, he went with John Hobart to the Mancini home and he told police that after that visit, that was the visit in which his cousin John Hobart begged Mancini for drugs and was refused.

OK, wouldn't give him anything. He said at this point he was given given, quote, a mission from God. god yeah we're on a mission from gad hey they're on a mission from god like the blues brothers that's what's going on now um to destroy the snake george yeah that's that's what he said a mission from god we're in need of harmonicas we need harmonicas and we're gonna we got a half a pack of cigarettes and three quarters of a box of harmonicas and we're ready to go. So he's on a mission from God to destroy the snake George. He told them, they said, well, why did you, you stole all this shit from his house? Do you admit to stealing all that shit?

And he said, absolutely. I stole all that shit. Why did I steal that shit? I'd love to know. The spoils of war. Oh, boy. Jimmy, if you're the bear king and you're put on a mission from God to kill the snake George, you take spoils of war. Like, what the fuck, dude? Have you not been paying attention to what I've been telling you?

You are entitled. I mean, duh. Like, you don't have the mark of Merlin? What the fuck paying attention to what I've been telling you? You are entitled. I mean, duh. Like, you don't have the mark of Merlin? What the fuck? You know what I'm saying? Wake up, Jimmy. Wake up. Start thinking for yourself, Jimmy.

He said that to cops, James. He said that to cops. Spoils of war. Okay. Sure. Sounds great. It's the booty, sir. That's what it was.

I'm just, you know, that's what happens. Holy shit. So now he then changes his story somewhere in the middle to that Mancini sold heroin now. Now he was saying Mancini sold heroin. He changed it in the middle to he was a drug dealer. So, you know, he sold drugs to minors. That's what he said. He drug dealer. So he sold drugs to minors. That's what he said. He was a teacher and he sold drugs to minors.

That's what he told him. What did he think was going to happen? Mission from God, obviously. There is no evidence that Mancini sold drugs to anybody, including minors, by the way. Sounds like a guy who had some fucking issues that needed medication. Yeah, that's what I'm saying here. So he tells the wow. He says, quote, I didn't I didn't tell him the real reason that I wanted to kill Mancini.

He said he said about his cousin. He said, I didn't tell my cousin that I was going there, that I was going there to kill him. I didn't tell him that. He said, I told him I was going to knock him out and I was going to rob him. That's what he told him. This is his apartment. It's on breezy hill road in hillsdale so anybody knows where that is anyway um he said so yeah i uh fucking that's what happened you know end of story so i just said i was gonna rob him hobart didn't know shit he said he was told him that he would come back in

an hour basically come back in an hour and grab me from this spot. I'll meet you out there. Synchronized watches. So when Mancini answered the door, he tells the police that he, quote, appeared to be in a drug-induced state. Or it was 730 in the morning and you woke him up, which if you wake me up at 730, I'm going to look like I'm in a very drug-induced state. Because you probably still are. Yeah, well, I could still be from the night before and on top of that yeah i'm tired it's early so uh demigol said he demanded drugs from mancini he goes give me some drugs and mancini told him he doesn't have any more now look at me yeah i I'm a mess. Mancini then asked him to please leave. He said he told, then he has the balls to tell me to get out.

I'm coming over here like a nice guy, like a gentleman knocking on the door, asking him for drugs. And he's like, I don't have any. Get the fuck out. It's 730 in the morning. What a jerk, right? We got it. So at that point, I pulled out my knife and I lunged at him.

That's what he said. They said, well, how often did you stab him? How many times? And he said, quote quote i think i stabbed him about 37 times about about about this random odd number in the ballpark of a very specific number which is not between 35 and 40 or about 40 about 35 37 times that's just to make sure. Then he tells the, this is what he tells the cop now, quote, I wanted to look into his eyes so I could see his soul. He told the cop that as well.

So then they said, well, what was he doing? And he said, well, he's begging for his life. He's saying, oh, please don't kill me. Don't kill me. You know, in the middle of dying stuff that is just a wine and blah, blah, blah, blah, please don't kill me, don't kill me, you know. In the middle of dying. Stuff that, he's just whining, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know. He's just very, he just had no, like, oh, I guess he was hurt. He was just like, I don't know, he's begging me to say some shit, who cares. So he said that he replied to him, quote, you're already dead.

And that's when he took out a paperweight and beat the living shit out of him with it until brains came out of his ear. He said they said, well, why did you do that? You already stabbed him 37 times. And he said, I hit him because he wasn't dying fast enough. Very impatient. I got things to do, Jimmy. I'm on a schedule.

Can you die a little quicker for me and just pick up the pace here? That's ridiculous that's insane so um then he says that he quote started raiding the house this is his words by the way raiding and spoils of war spoils of war historic words yeah it's some viking shit here so he said he piled up styrofoam mail and quote anything else that would burn and covered Mancini's body with a sheet. He put all the stuff on top of him, then put a sheet over it so it wouldn't all like fall out. So it would burn inside the sheet. And he said he used a lighter, he said, to set all the shit on fire and burn him.

He went into what they described as excruciating detail of what he did to him. And the different stab wounds, talking about sounds it made. Yikes, what? All that shit he got into. He really detailed. He savored this shit, man. He was like a bunch of, in an 80s movie, a bunch of 16-year-old virgins and one of them finally got laid and they came back to the others and gave them a detailed account of what happened that's what this is basically yeah oh my god you should have seen it yeah it's one of those things so he says about how he got there uh all that shit by the

way through all of this makes no mention of being god being king arthur a wizard a knight a fucking none of this shit by the way nothing not a bear king no relation to jesus no i thought he was the you know this shit literally i went there to i was a mission from god because i went there to get his drugs that's what he said so um yeah he said he couldn't dispose of the body so so he did that. Wow. They also, at the end of it, when prosecutors see the confession, they said, quote, God is nowhere in this picture. Where's these delusions that they're saying that he has? He didn't say he had any of them in this, and this is kind of where you would say that you had that sort of thing. He does state that he said that he mutilated.

He said, well, you killed killed him why'd you have to fucking set him on fire why'd you have to hit him after you saw brains come out you kept hitting him like why and he said because quote he couldn't stand him that's why i didn't like him and that's why i i couldn't quote i couldn't stand him and i just wanted to kill him. He said, you know, he's talking about hating him, and he wanted to mutilate him, you know, all that sort of shit here. This, by the way, is after the week before, when he went into the hospital, he had said that he was a ninja. He added ninja to his list, by the way, of things that he was.

A ninja. Robinhood now as well, he added him to his list by the way of things that he was a ninja Robin Hood now as well he added him to the list Sir Galahad as well as well yeah he was a Robin Hood Merlin Sir Galahad King Arthur a ninja and whatever the end the Slayer of the White Stag, whatever that is. These are great. That's what he's got going on. That's the week before he gets out, the week before he goes into the hospital, but then he goes in the hospital where they medicate him and shit like that,

and he was not having these delusions, but still wanted heroin as the problem. Yeah, because that stuff is, it works. It's fucking amazing. Yeah. They also make a big deal later of while he's confessing he's got making little drawings on a pad of little pad and paper and uh he writes 666 he draws like you know fire flames he draws uh a flying eyeball which could just be the santa cruz logo or the

you know no the old skateboard there was a santa cruz skateboard that had the flying eyeball fucking logo with the wings on the eyeball no not a wing it was like an eyeball with like roots coming off of it flying through the air oh that was there was a board that had that on it i don't remember which one but um anyway yeah so that's what he's saying here um jesus fucking christ um he says that uh he didn't he alternately confesses that he didn't That's what he's saying here. Jesus fucking Christ. He says that he alternately confesses that he didn't like Mancini. Then he says Mancini's a drug dealer. And it, quote, sickened him that Mancini was selling heroin to young people. Yeah.

Like I said, no evidence of that. Corrupting the youth. And he wouldn't give me any. That's the main problem. Because, I mean, I went there to get it from him. And when he didn't give it to me, I had a moral problem with what he did then. Corrupting the youth. Hobart, his cousin, is charged with first degree robbery as well. And Demigol's held on murder charges without bail and arson and robbery and all sorts of shit like that. It's two counts of murder in the second degree, robbery in the first degree and arson in the second degree. So there's that. Those are heavy.

Yeah. The Demigol family hearing of William being arrested. The father said he heard his son had been arrested from his sister who saw it on television yeah he said he tried to check himself into the mental hospital after that as well uh because he was going so crazy about it here he said that he has not spoken to his son since the arrest was it him or did he try to check um yeah he tried to check himself and he's usually the dad did yeah rocked him so he said he's usually about his son quote he's usually a very loving and kind person he has had girlfriends in his life and he's well loved by his family so this

just blew me away it is unlike him as a person and what he appreciates and what i thought his morals were. The kid is really sick. This isn't anything he grew up emulating. This is something that happened because he's psychotic. Not my fault. He just said this isn't something he grew up emulating. He didn't see this.

He didn't see me beating an older man to death and then setting him on fire. So this is not my fucking fault, basically. That's amazing. I've been trying to tackle this in and out of hospitals and such. That's what I was trying to teach him. Not not this. Jesus Christ. He said, quote, It's horrible. Horrible.

This is the father, Stephen. The reason this has happened is because Willie is very psychotic. And I made numerous attempts to the pits to the Pittsfield police to inform them he was a danger to himself and others. And I made numerous calls to the state police. So now Mancini, one of his friends from where he taught, which was the Career Institute of Technology for 24 years. He said that the director, Ron Roth, from the institute said, quote, he was a really sharp guy, a good teacher. We're all shocked and upset by this. So that's nice he

said he'll remember him as a quiet thoughtful man and um he you know was very sad about it all the teachers were he wasn't a you know it wasn't like a an asshole that we were like oh that fucking asshole yeah we're glad he's dead so uh in jail now william's in jail and now he's getting the treatment now they're he's getting treatment he's getting the treatment. Now he's getting treatment. He's getting the medication he needs and all of that. And this is from this is according to his father. His own father says he's been visiting him. He seems like another.

He seems like he's great now. He's doing fine. He's on medication. He says, quote, It will take a good number of months to get him stabilized. And I think the reality of what has happened is going to hit him like a ton of bricks. When you are manic, you think you are right and everybody is wrong he could be in the land of king arthur for all he knows so i would say yes yes he said so he did he also said he was the bear king yeah now the police chief um they ask the police chief hey are you happy with your way that your department

handled that whole thing you think you could have done a little better finding the guy and he said hold on a minute i gotta can you hold can you hold please i gotta really take this he said there was a midst of an internal investigation a review not an investigation on the escape and he said that uh the sheriff finally said anthony j riello he said that he was quote comfortable with how his department reacted to the situation i'm comfortable he said that uh he laid out the timeline he put that's what he was the one who gave out all the recordings and everything like that he said quote i'm comfortable that we got things rolling right away do i have have questions? Certainly. And I'm going to ask them. But I'm comfortable.

Oh, boy. Yeah. How do you get comfortable at all with can you please hold? Never. Yeah. They talk about that. And they talk about the doctor calling to talk about Demogorgon again. And the sergeant replying, William, who?

Who then? So there was that um now that they have him in custody by the way investigators want to speak to him about another unsolved homicide in uh the homicide of jan stackhouse who authorities say bled to death after suffering stab wounds to the neck her body was found on may 1st, 2005 on a rural stock bridge road, about a mile from the caves where he stays and was staying. Then, uh,

they also want to interview him about the death of Anthony Colucci, who was stabbed to death in October in mountain state, uh, state forest in, uh, in Washington. Oh, on in October mountain state forest in Washington on July 4th, 2005.

So that's New York, by the way. So they want to know there. But the father, Stephen, said he's sure his son was not involved in either of those crimes. He's like, listen, not my guy. No way. He said William was living with him for much of that summer and he had a girlfriend with whom he spent much of his time. So he was out a lot is basically what he just said he said quote he wasn't manic then and he wasn't psychotic and when he did become manic he wasn't as psychotic as he is now he was in jones last summer and he was medicated and i was around for all of that and he wasn't over in october mountain

looking to kill someone so they got to they've got to investigate a little more. They can't just take the father's word for it there. For court, they do do some DNA just to make sure. There's five items of clothing taken from Demigol and Mancini that Demigol had on him containing blood with a DNA match to Mancini. So physical evidence puts him there just in case. They said the prosecutor said they're not even going to call John Hobart to the stand, the cousin, because, A, he wasn't there. B, he's a dirtbag and not helpful.

And C said he doesn't have to testify because quote i have dna in a confession yeah dna confession and that guy's unreliable no thank you yeah no thanks let's stick to this shit credibility's fucked no nah so december of 2006 here is his trial now our a trial fast yeah came up fast the uh they obviously there's kind of undisputed elements of the murder, basically. He did it. We know that. He admitted that. His defense of insanity is what he's going for, obviously. That would be a thing here. The burden of proof in an insanity defense is on the defendant to prove it at that point.

You take the onus off the prosecution and you put it on your on yourself. They have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that at the time of the murder, quote, as a result of mental disease or defect defect, he lacked substantial capacity to know or appreciate that such conduct was wrong. Meaning against the law in the state of New York or against commonly held moral principles, namely the law of God or both, namely the law or God or both. So whatever the fuck you think you're governed by in there now. So there's that. He says that he can't prove basically his inability to appreciate that his conduct was illegal, but he's he gets all the psychiatrists to appreciate that his conduct was illegal.

But he's he gets all the psychiatrists to say that he's out of his mind. So that's easy. First of all, the medical examiner is describing all the wounds and the bludgeoning, sending several members of the Mancini family running from the courtroom in tears. Sure. That's not a great look for you. If you're the defendant uh now the one of the copy talked to was there as well and uh they they asked him hey why didn't you like you didn't ask him about any of his like uh he was wearing like army style pants and uh he was talking about project cobra he didn't really ask any follow-up questions about that sort of shit like you know the crazy stuff and the cop was like no we were getting the

goddamn details of the crime i don't give a fuck why he did it or it's irrelevant that's his yeah his defense later i could give a shit yeah i'm not curious yeah yeah this isn't a true crime podcast this is a goddamn this is a investigation. This is a fucking interrogation. Ask me one more question. I'll put you on hold. Yeah, I will put you on hold super fast. Right from the witness stand. Your honor, objection.

No, sustained. He did put you on hold. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to sustain it. So he's going to bring in some psychiatrists here. He presents three different psychiatrists, does William. Kleinman, Stephen Price and Thomas Qualtare. Each of them were qualified as experts at trial, and they all had some some shit to say. They the people's expert agreed that he does suffer from a mental disease or defect.

But the problem is that he probably knew the difference between right and wrong is what they're saying so uh he details to the to the shrinks his visit to the victim's house here where he saw he says he's now he's gone all the way to he's seen people buying drugs from from mancini now now it's past suspecting he also said that he had a vision in which he saw mancini and his eyes were soulless and crumbled to ash before him that's what he tells psychiatrists so kleinman is up first this psychiatrist he testifies he examined him over the course of two days he examined william and reviewed his records and all that sort of stuff he said to a reasonable degree of medical psychiatric certainty that as a result of his mental illness he was substantially unable to appreciate that

his action was not consistent with commonly commonly held moral standards or principles he said that uh that william killed mancini while under the influence of a quote psychotic belief that he was acting as a servant of god and completing a particular mission which he was commissioned by god to him well incredible uh he then further concluded that he was not malingering as we know if you don't, malingering means faking a mental illness in this sort of situation. Or in any other aspects of this. So, and it's tough. Another thing is, this is hard.

It's hard when they bring in, because you don't want to have someone who's actually mentally ill and can't help themselves or can't help their actions in prison. Because that helps nobody, obviously. or can't help their actions in prison because that helps nobody, obviously. But the problem is, is when you are sick and you go to a doctor, you can say, my heart's fine. And when they do tests and they can see that it's not fine. And no matter what you say, they know what's wrong with you because they test things. You know what I'm saying? They do a blood test.

Yeah. Well, I don't feel like I have cancer. Well, you fucking do. I don't know what to tell you. I got news for you. So, yeah, that's what I mean. So that's the thing. Psychiatry is not that way. Psychiatry, all a psychiatrist can do is rely on the self-reporting of the patient.

Because what else do they have? They can't hook them up to a machine and go, you're lying. You actually don't think you're the bear king. There's no way to do that. Yeah. lying you actually don't think you're the bear king there's no way to do that yeah so that works fine in a you know if jimmy's trying to get better and not be depressed and going to therapy then his goal is to get better and then that person's trying to help him so it's irrelevant whether jimmy's lying to that person or not because it's it's jimmy's dime basically so

if you want to lie and make something up and waste your time for an hour go crazy but when it's Jimmy's dime, basically. So if you want to lie and make something up and waste your time for an hour, go crazy. But when it's a criminal thing, it's a different case completely. Then you have to have people basically see into someone's brain and tell. And it can be easy to do. So he said, though, he's not malingering. So the psychiatrist number two testifies that he examined him. Multiple meetings this guy did and reviewed his records and all that. He interviewed his mother and his sister.

He said at the time of the murder that William believed that he was on a mission from God. Again, did not know or appreciate his conduct was against commonly held principles. He also concluded that he was not malingering as well. So he's good. Shrink number three for the defense. Qualtare. He testified he conducted three interviews with him again and reviewed all his shit and talked to people.

He said at the time of the murder that he could not appreciate that his actions were wrong. And with respect to commonly held morals, he explained that when William killed Mancini, he was, quote, operating under a significant delusional, firm, fixed false belief of being in the medieval times, having a mission of having the vision and of having to end the life of this serpent with the venom. That's what he says um that is not i i wanted his heroin or i saw him buying heroin or he sickened me that is not any of that shit that he originally said this is a whole other thing to this psychiatrist he literally said he thought he was in medieval times and you know killing a dragon serpent that you know an instruction from the queen or some bullshit you know wow so now shrink number four is a state this is a prosecution psychiatrist here and now uh this is alan tuckman alan tuckman um he met briefly on two occasions

and reviewed records didn't spend as much time as others though he said that uh whether he knew that whether william knew if the murder was morally wrong he said that quote legal and moral principles are really the same with one exception what you know is morally wrong you know is legally wrong and what's legally wrong you know know, is morally wrong. The only exception is where an individual's beset with a hallucination that they got a specific direct command from God to do this for some psychotic reason. Okay. Now he testifies that, quote, it was clear to him that William's idea that he got a message from God was not truthful in the way it was presented to him. He said he's malingering. That's this guy's. That's his thing. He said it's very convenient that because he looks over all his records and he's like, it's very convenient that he is batshit when it's convenient to be batshit. And when it comes to being in front of shrinks and being in front of cops and then perfectly fine when he needs to be perfectly fine. Yeah, but it's not perfectly fine. He's in fucking caves he's hiding in caves then but then he's yeah he's he's definitely

that's the thing definitely nuts that's the thing and this is this is the thing with the law nuts is not mentally ill legally and that's the difference and it's not you can be nuts, but unless you literally heard voices, saw visions, did not know you were on this earth and the year it is and that the laws exist, unless that's the only way you can prove insanity nowadays. That's it. And it's not illegal to be crazy. No. I embrace it every day. Exactly. Jesus, it's our whole lives.

It's our whole goddamn shtick. So we can't help it thank fuck so but that's the thing is legally in society yeah obviously you could say he's insane but legally you have to not even know where you are basically to be insane legally in the 70s he would be like that insane in an institution like richard ramirez's cousin there i was going to say uncle but cousin who he was putting in a facility same kind of way nowadays that guy would have been life in jail done two seconds so um he didn't believe the claim that he was that william was receiving god messages from god because during their interview, he said William described the vision he received as a, quote, foresight and a premonition.

And all of this meant, he said, it was a feeling and a thought, a spur of the moment thing rather than a specific statement from God. That's the quote from Tuchman. He also concluded that certain aspects of his behavior at or around the time of the murder revealed an awareness on the part of his moral wrongness of his acts, specifically that he tried to hide the crime and evade prosecution. There you go. He knew what he was doing. That's the main one that they always do.

If you know enough that I need to hide this and go, then you know that it's wrong. Then you shouldn't have done it. That's how they break down mental illness if he was the way the law works if they're saying if he was truly crazy he would have sat there and played with his own feces until the police arrived and not even realized it was a and he would have waved at them and said can i get you some can i make you a cone name a song with a harmonic i'll play it yeah while he while he drags while he pushes a flaming body up a flagpole like that's crazy that's what i mean so um he said that he tried to do that among other things he tried to cover the bodies with a blanket

locking or barricading the doors to the apartment as well and giving a false name in the days following the murder another girl as well yeah oh by the way he stole items and money from that why would merlin need a sleep apnea machine good point why would the bear king need costume jewelry you know what i'm saying why would the son of jesus need fucking t-shirts it's the bare essentials so oh man so now on cross-examination he conceded that he uh did he accepted all of the this is tuchman said he accepted all the defendant's mental illnesses and delusions but he did not accept that he got specific direct verbal direction from God to do this, which would be the only thing that would make you legally in this range. He also concluded that he was malingering aspects of his mental illness, both to psychiatrists now and to family members and other medical professionals back then.

He said he would whatever reason this is what he was doing. This is his thing that he does. He also acknowledged that there was another examination he's talking about. He said, quote, if the defendant was malingering the same material four years back, there's a good chance he was malingering the material in 2006, too. He said that basically that somebody else said he was malingering the material in 2006 too he said that uh basically that somebody else said he was malingering a few years before that so that's how that works so there's no doubt who did this the only question to the jury is is he sane enough to right put in jail so verdict

comes in by the way the deliberations took a couple of days. The families from both sides hung out together during this. Really? The Mancini family hung out with the Demigol family, and they sat, and they just would cry together and do all that kind of shit. And they'd break at lunch, and they wouldn't talk shit to each other or anything. They both lost sons and family members in this. It's a bonding. shit to each other they both lost sons and family members in this that's it's it's a it's a bonding i've seen that in so many cases where the families of each side like hug each other and just love each other because they're all lost they're all in something for it says here in the newspaper here

the uh for a short time on thursday demigol's father steven uh and george mancini's daughter alissa shared a bench outside the courtroom and talk quietly before retreating to their family. So they were. Yeah. Mancini's family, his daughter, his son, his brother, his sister and other people all had to hear about the beating and the burning and all that kind of shit, which is rough. You know, they talk about that. They're talking. Her aunt. I'm sorry that her his niece is outside. And she said, quote, her daughter. I apologize. Mancini's daughter said, quote, I don't care about the verdict. I miss my father. I don't care what happens to that person, which is the exact reaction that my family had when a member of our family was murdered.

It doesn't fucking matter. That's whatever. Can I kick her in the twat? No? Well, then what the fuck do i care yeah i don't know this person so uh because that was a female murderer in that case so and uh although uh she says that uh she has sympathy for the demigal family she does not buy into the element that he is that insane um she said quote i'm not so kind or forgiving there is nothing they

can say or do that would change a thing so they don't give a fuck so finally uh the the jury asks they said they have an 11 to 1 stalemate okay at one point that asshole 11 to 1 and then they go back in for another 50 minutes yeah and uh to keep deliberating for another 50 minutes. And anyway, this all comes out. William's in court here. And they end up finding him. Well, let's see here. What do they do?

We got to get that. They find him guilty of everything. Murder, guilty, arson, all that kind of shit. Guilty, guilty, guilty, arson, all that kind of shit. Guilty, guilty, guilty. So this ends up, uh,

here, the guilty verdict comes down and, the Mancini family is very happy. Basically, uh, William seems fine in court. He said, I love you all to his family.

And then, you know, it was taken away. And, uh, the Demigol family said they are very angry about this. Really? Yes. They his one of his aunts said, quote, I have no idea how the jury could be so confused. William Demigol should be in a hospital. This is not making the world a better place. I think it's disgusting and outrageous. outrageous her husband there this is his uncle said that the mental health system had failed demigol and allowing him to escape and now the justice system has failed him as well said if there is ever a case that clearly defined this kind of plea this is it he's not a criminal

he's a person who's had to go through tremendous torment in his life because of an illness that was out of control and not his fault he called the jury's verdict unbelievably callous and insensitive. We have an extremely strong case for appeal. Now, you can't say he's not a criminal. He fucking killed somebody. Yeah, and a brutal one. That's criminal behavior. And then stole a bunch of shit.

And then he's blaming the hospital for letting him escape, but he's like, he's not a criminal. If he's not a criminal, then they can't fucking hold him. You can't hold somebody against their will. You want him to fucking handcuff him? Dude, exactly. At some point, you've got to go along with the fucking program. And unless he killed the guy and then was like, I did it.

I killed the Serpent King. Call the media. You know what I mean? But he was like, I'll steal some sleep apnea machines and harmonicas and barricade the door and leave that just that doesn't look good and so uh the prosecutor he said that he agreed with the mancini family that yes he thought demigol was mentally ill but he should go to prison because uh he knew he wasn't that mentally ill basically the defense attorney is shocked. He predicted an hour before the verdict that the 11-to-1 stalemate was in his favor.

Wow. It was 11 for his side and one for the prosecution. Then once they came back, they found out that that wasn't the case. A totally remand situation. Yep. they found out that that wasn't the case right and uh men situation yep steven's father william's father steven said quote the judge got his desired verdict so there's that sentencing comes up but you know yeah yeah well no he means the judge he means the judge wanted his guy to lose he's saying it was sentencing comes up and uh you sir may fuck off i suppose here 25 to life he gets okay 25 years to life which is a reasonable yeah sentence for murder for that kind of murder

fucking yeah it was brutal jesus it was brutal man his skull was caved in like it was fucking disgusting like a cue saw it you go that's crazy that's 22nd, 2007, Demigol's father writes an editorial for the Berkshire Eagle, which a lot, by the way, credit to the Berkshire Eagle. There's a lot of good articles where I got some information out of. They covered this up and down in that newspaper. So he says, quote, on March 21st at the Columbia County courthouse in, I almost said whorehouse, in Hudson. It's a way different place.

My son, William S. Demigal, was convicted of second-degree murder of George Mancini of Hillsdale, New York. He received 25 years to life in state prison. There's no question that he's responsible for the murder, but there are others that share in the responsibility. The systems that protect our society failed. responsibility the systems that protect our society failed berkshire medical center's jones three unit allowed a severely mentally ill person to escape from the secure smoking area the pittsfield police department did not even send an officer over to the hospital when the staff first reported my son escaped and was seen on foot heading towards springside park i also add myself to the list for not doing enough for my son sooner.

Plenty of blame to go around on this tragedy. Okay. Fair enough. Plenty of blame is probably a fair thing. Now, 2009, he appeals. Yeah. Okay. And the appeal essentially is about the presentation of experts is how it works so they said prior to the close of proof defense counsel indicated he planned to point out in the summation that tuckman

who was the state the one who said he wasn't crazy was not the first psychiatrist to be used by the people to examine the defendant the county court directed the council that he would not be permitted to make such a statement. The court stated that the comment would require jurors to speculate and call into question the district attorney's credibility. So apparently, upon cross-examination earlier, Tuchman had reviewed the 40 page report of dr kleinman who was the first doctor and uh came up with like a different conclusion based on the guy's reporting so uh they were saying that instructed the jury it was not permitted to speculate originally kleinman was the state's guy okay and he ended up testifying for the defense

is basically the state didn't like the answer they got from the first shrink so they said never mind kept his report the second guy reviewed his report talked to him temagol a little bit and just said he was fine and kleinman ended up testifying on the other side so that's how that ended up working it was a little bit it doesn't look good essentially yeah it looks it looks shady here um tuckman's uh also tuckman wrote an article as well uh in in the article he misrepresented the law essentially in the article it was a uh 40 page oh no that was the 40 page report there uh sorry yeah there's this In the article, he spoke favorably of a 2006 order of county court rejecting a defendant's plea and approved of the legal standard applied by the court, a standard defense's attempt to delve into the legal basis underlying

Tuchman's writing in an effort to explore his understanding of the insanity defense law under New York law was objected to and sustained. So they never got to get into that. So that's how that ended up working. Overall, the questioning of Tuchman regarding the article and its award, because the article and its award as it because the article won an award as it transpired here of course god was was too likely to confuse the main issue and mislead the jury that's what they said so um wow um what ends up happening is uh he was the only one saying he was malingering so this is overturned wow it's overturned now i found a weird fucking thing

jimmy it's so weird okay somehow i believe william demigol's mom died okay i'm almost where somebody in her family died either way there's a property in what i believe could maybe be his name it's william s dem Demigol. Okay. He owns it. I'm not sure if he owns it or not. This is what I'm saying. This is just some research here. It's a property record for a Sarasota County, Florida home. Okay.

It's David A. Demigol and William S. Demigol. Okay. They own this home in Florida. Their address, this mailing address is for Columbia Station, Ohio. Now, the address of the home that's owned by these two individuals yeah jimmy buckle up 322 king arthur drive get out of my life really king arthur fucking drive jimmy look how is that even possible it's either the biggest coincidence in the world and

that's not even the right demigol and it just happens to be that or else subdivision called round table yeah that's sir galahad lane either that or that's maybe where he got the idea i don't know what it is i'm not saying that's for or against anything i'm just saying that's a weird fucking thing i found it's weird as shit in sword and stone florida down in sword and stone florida that's a good one i like that one it's a little 20 miles south of fantasia right i believe if i'm not mistaken it's beautiful down there so they do want to try him again obviously um in november of 2009 he's found unfit to stand trial really mentally but then in 2010 he's found that he's feeling a lot better and he's fit to stand trial by now they just they just keep checking him over to see if he's fit but now is he's how about now

is he fit now 2011 is trial number two okay now, the prosecutor insisted throughout this trial that Demigol deliberately and knowingly killed Mancini, who he intended to rob. He said, quote, Demigol knew what he did before, during, and after this crime was wrong. That's why he tried to cover it up and all this type of shit.

He urged jurors not to believe the defense argument that Demigol believed he was a wizard ordered by God to slay Mancini. You know how that goes. So verdict comes in here while they're waiting. Stephen said that he is, you know, he's waiting for the verdict. And he said, quote, The first trial has prepared us for anything. So whatever happens, he said, I don't think you ever get used to the waiting.

So whatever happens, he said, I don't think you ever get used to the waiting. No. Which waiting for your verdict and your murder trial has to be the most stressful thing in the world. I'm sure it's pretty. Yeah, it's up there. Other than right before you're murdered, it's probably the most stressful thing in the world. You're right. So he at 7 p.m., the jury comes back and he is found guilty again of second degree murder this time and second degree murder

so they said that they're they're thinking about appealing the verdict and the father Stephen Demigol's father said they'll if they do they're going to go shopping for a new lawyer he said quote he's done of the lawyer that couldn't had enough of him

who got him fucking convicted. So 2011, they're going to sentence him. But the sentencing is delayed due to a bad report. There's a pre-sentencing report that you give out that has to have all this information in it. And apparently there was a bunch of shit that weren't in the pre-sentencing report. It just like slacked and didn't put it together well enough. in the pre-sentencing report. It just like slacked and didn't put it together

well enough. So they ordered the probation department to amend the report because this is the state supposed to put this together. It's on there. It's on them

and then resubmit it and they have to wait until March 1st now to from January to get sentencing. Michael Mancini said, quote, this is the son,

quote, I'll wait. I live this every day like it happened yesterday. Oh, this is his brother. I'm sorry. live this every day like it happened yesterday oh this is his brother i'm sorry he said he's been struggling with guilt because he's the guy who introduced his brother god to hobart so that's how it worked and uh so he feels terrible he says quote i have a lot of things on my mind and i want to say that i want to say when he is sentenced yeah so march comes around more sentencing you sir may again fuck off 25 years to

life again second time second time got him to 2014 okay um they court in the appeal they said that uh they talk about tuchman again because he's back involved in this. And they say that the people they asked him whether during his examination of. Well, when he examined William, quote, was there any there was any conversation concerning about whether he asked for a lawyer when he talked to the police and gave this statement? Tuchman responded that it was discussed and then related his discussion with the defendant as follows. I said, you know, you asked for a lawyer. If you said that you didn't do anything wrong, why would you ask for a lawyer? And he said that, well, maybe I thought they thought or maybe they thought I did something wrong. And I believe at one point I said, you know, if you were on a mission from God and God told you, why would you need a lawyer?

You're on a mission from God. Yeah. So he was. Yeah. He was seeing if he was malingering if he's on a mission from god he'd be like i don't need a lawyer talk to god bro go fucking god's like if he believed that the whole time but also he was interviewed three days later so we don't know if that was his mindset when he was doing the murder or not 72 that's the other thing yeah it's not like the cops rushed in and caught him right afterwards and he was sitting there saying this shit.

Who knows? So they said, though, the court says, had this issue been preserved, not perverted, we would find that this exchange resulted in the defendant's invocation of his constitutional right to counsel being used against him to create a prejudicial inference of conscientious guilt. to counsel being used against him to create a prejudicial inference of conscientious guilt and therefore beyond the bounds of proper questioning by the people and not permissible appealed overturned oh boy oh my god trial number three jimmy this is exhausting how the 2015 oh boy trial number three uh special prosecutor argues that demigol's actions following the killing showed he understood the difference between right and wrong. Defense attorney Cheryl Coleman now, we got somebody new in the mix, said the trial's not about his innocence or guilt, obviously.

He said she's more concerned about whether the state will accept his insanity defense and treat Demigol rather than convict him. insanity defense and treat demigod rather than convict him the attorney for the defense said that after years of grappling with severe mental illness he had decided that he was upholding an alternate morality and that he had the right to kill she said that demigod believed at various times he was god or one of his agents or a wizard merlin or king arthur legends or arthur himself or the bear king or jesus or a ninja or the slayer of the white stag or you name it. Um, he's, uh, the defense attorney said, does it make sense? Of course not. It's mental illness. It's not supposed to make sense. Uh, he also, uh, disputed the notion the defense did that the fire set was set to cover up evidence. The fire,

she said, only served to alert police of the crime. Oh, it was his SOS. He was doing it as a gesture to them, actually. That was the thing. He didn't want to cover it. He was trying to tell them about it, like with a smoke signal. I need help.

Yeah, she said, which may have got, he said, otherwise it would have gone unreported for some time. Yeah, they kept putting him on hold. Yeah. They said, well, then why did he barricade the back door and lock the fucking front door then and she went oh well we're not sure about that who knows you win that's it's a tough one there um so the verdict is eight women or the jury eight women

and six men and 12 of whom will deliberate and then there's alternates and all that shit four days of deliberation wow theyza. They go on four days. They finally come back and say, hopelessly deadlocked and a mistrial is fucking. Oh my God. A mistrial is called here. The defense attorney said that her client was incapable and the time of the killing of understanding what he did was wrong

and such a conviction would have resulted in his confinement and uh either way he should be confined to a secure mental facility until a judge decides he's cured the uh coleman said quote if he's probably going to be confined for the better part of his life wouldn't it be better if he was if it was uh that it was a view toward treatment should he ever be released now uh steven the father he said he's not sure what will happen next but he's pretty sure there'll be another trial yeah he said we're not disappointed but it's better than guilty we're not or we're just we're we're disappointed but it's better than guilty so uh he says that since the murder his son's health has improved a lot since treatment in jail. Thank God. But his lawyer's whole case is he can't get treatment in jail.

And the father then comes out and goes, they treat him. So he gets such great treatment in jail. He's doing great. So it's kind of that's a tough one. Not saying that you get better treatment in jail. I'm just saying he's saying it's working for him. So he said before all this happened, he said he was a good he was good. He was strong.

I'm very proud of the way he handled himself in court today. That's the way he used to be. That's the way he was before the Mancini family. On the other hand, his Georgia sister said, we're very frustrated. We're beside ourselves. This is the third time we've been through this. At the moment, at the moment, having a mistrial is better than not guilty. We're looking for justice even though demigol is ill we're looking for my brother's soul to rest in peace my brother was a great person he was a great asset to our family that we no longer had

and also he's got two adult children he's saying that he's got a grandchild now that he never will get a chance to meet all that sort of thing now november 2019 is supposed to be the is the pleading for the next trial he pleads not guilty by mental defect again and then covet happens and we haven't had a trial yet god damn it so either way he's either going to be in a facility or in jail or somewhere he's not going to be they're not going to let him out on the street anytime soon uh but that's one you can discuss amongst yourselves of what the fuck do you do with that situation i mean what do you do he's he seems like he's pretty insane but at the same time there's a lot of signs that he that's all real calculated at the same point you know so it's like the ending he lives in caves but he tried to cover it up tells you everything in my opinion i mean yeah i'm no lawyer

i would i would even i'll give you one of the two i'll give you stealing the shit or or trying to cover it up but if you do both that's what every murderer in all of our cases does they kill a person then steal some shit then try to cover up the murder that's what every sane person does so if your actions are sane how are you insane insane? Because you're doing sane actions. Or at least, I mean, that's the chicken or the egg thing there. So you can all talk about that amongst yourselves. Either way, he thought, you know, it's pretty wild that he said he was the bear king and Merlin and Sir Galahad and King Arthur and Jesus and Jesus' son. There's a thousand people, James James locked up for murdering for drugs

that's what he did you know what I mean yeah he went he told his cousin I'm going over to get drugs from him he didn't have drugs he killed him and took a bunch of valuable things that he could then exchange for drugs right and then set the place on fire and barricaded

the door closed but then the argument is he took those items to go exchange them for drugs, which is crazy because the things he took were worthless. Yeah, well, he had $270. Yeah, that's a good point. And you could hawk a sleep apnea machine. Those are expensive, those machines. Yeah, they are.

You could hawk that. You could get $100 for that or something. He does not accept jewelry for drugs. No, and costume jewelry for drugs. So it's a tough one and we'll never know. All we know is the fucking murder was crazy and I feel bad for everybody's family involved in this. The Mancini's, the Demigals, everybody's a fucking, everybody, no one's coming out good here, like happy. No matter what happens to this kid, everybody's miserable.

So who cares at this point? It's a fucking wreck now. he's not even a kid anymore he's in his 30s now for christ's sake but it's that happened you know 15 years ago the murder man already he's like 36 now it's over so anyway that everybody is hillsdale new york oh my and an absolutely bonkers crazy shit murder that uh by merlin and fucking heroin and and the voice of god god damn it uh just not even medicinal weed just brought to you by by fun brought to you by recreational marijuana there's the fucking brought to you by recreational marijuana. There's the word. Brought to you by pass-through towns on the way from the Taconic to the Great Barrington Recreational Facility. Fantastic. Oh, man.

So, yes, if you enjoyed that show, get on whatever platform you're on. Give us five stars, because it does help, or 10 stars, or 50 stars, or however many fucking stars you're allowed to give. Do that. Head over to shutupandgive give me murder.com right now where you can get everything crime and sports and small town murder related all of your merchandise we have so much good stuff new stuff up there new designs for all sorts of new shit they have check it out it's really if you like merch stuff there's so much to go through there it'll take you a while so check that out if you've ever thought something was funny on the show there's probably a t-shirt that says it so you can check all that out do that

get your tickets to live shows that we hope will happen um and if they do happen you'll have tickets for them so that's how that works it's a very neat little thing that we do here and um god it's fucking exhausting all right go on yeah. By the way, somebody said, somebody posted, they were mad at us because the shows were delayed to a time that we had no control over, obviously, because we took what dates were available. But they were mad and said, why don't we just give people their money back? And I was like, we get the money. I don't have any.

We have not seen. You know when we get money for live shows? When we leave the stage and then leave the venue, they send a check to our agents. So in a few weeks. We get it like a week later. Three weeks later. When we do a show, we'll get money for that three weeks after that show. We don't see shit.

So it's not like it's in our pockets like we're sitting on it. The last money we got was three weeks after the last show we did almost two years ago. Yeah, in fucking Indianapolis or wherever the hell we were. Louisville. Louisville. Yeah. So, yeah, do all of that. Get your tickets to live shows.

Come see us out there if we can actually get going. We hope to see you. We're dying to goddamn see you. We really do want to see you. You can follow us on social media. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod small on twitter at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram that'll get you caught up and kind of keep you in the loop of what's going on and anything that happens that uh you might need to know about also and this is very

big patreon my god that's our thing patreon it's our thing patreon.com slash crime and sports you might think well what am i going to get for Patreon? Am I just being a nice person? Well, yes, you're being a nice person, but for your $5 that cost is get all the, you know, all the stuff on Patreon.

You're going to, we, we bend over backwards because we're amazed that you want to give us $5. So we're like, holy shit, we got to give these people the best stuff in the world. So we try our best to do that and give you the craziest fucking episodes we can find this week is no different at patreon.com slash crime and sports we have for you for the crime and sports one which you'll have access to

obviously have access to everything if you're a patron yeah is the malice at the palace which is the big fight the big basketball melee that happened in Detroit there about 15 years ago. Was it 2007? Maybe. Was it 2006? Yeah, around that. So it was about 15 years ago. That's what I was thinking.

It has to be somewhere in that ballpark, right? Yeah, it has to be there. It was right before Reggie Miller retired. Yeah, it was right around that time there. He forced Reggie to retire. He was like, I can't be a part of this. I don't want to get punched in the face by Ron Artest anymore. So anyway, there's that.

And then for the small town murder episode, we have one that I've just been dying to do forever. Non-dangerous conspiracy theories. These are conspiracy theories that you can believe in and you can not believe in. You can talk about with your friends. And at the end of it, you'll end up laughing instead of punching each other. You know what I mean? You could talk about the moon landing or the JFK assassination or Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot or shit like the Area 51. You can talk about that.

And at the end of the day, you go, wow, who the fuck knows? And then you all laugh and you go on with your day. Nobody gets shot. Nobody gets killed gets killed nobody there's nothing crazy there's no like you know we i'll even throw flat earth into there as a as a non-harmful one it's harmful in terms of it making it's making our collective iqs lower but it's not harmful in terms of nobody has ever murdered someone because of the flat earth god is coming for them or anything like that so you know or that the flat earth, you know, has children in the basement or some shit like I've never heard of that. So non dangerous conspiracy theories here. We're going to talk about so much fun.

That is Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. And if you just want to have a good time and be a nice person and also get a shout out at the end of the show be one of the people that we are so goddamn grateful for you can do that as well over at paypal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com yeah that said god damn it jimmy it's about time i think you need to hit me hit me good like a paperweight in a sock. Oh, boy. Hit me with the names of the finest, finest human beings that this earth has to offer. Hit me with them now, Jimmy. This week's executive producer, Jordan Bennett, Elizabeth Britton, Joanne Ahern, Maria Gohl, and her baby, Kian.

I believe Kian was just born. I'm not sure. Tenkan Dan is back. Tenkan Dan. Holy shit. We haven't heard from him in years, dude. It's been at least three years. Oh, Tenkan's Australian, right? I believe i believe so thrilled to know he's still around oh hell yeah nice to hear from you dan thank you

so much definitely got a got a got an original back yeah thank you and he says like at the time an unreasonable amount of money like we were stunned what somebody sent us that kind of money it was like $100. It was years ago, and I think we hugged and cried. We might have cried over it. I might have shed a tear over it. It was a pretty big deal. Thank you.

Terry and Brittany Birnbaum and their dogs Chubbers and Werf on IG. Beth Rippin, Catherine Sagan. Yeah, dogs. Of course it's dogs. Cutie dogs. Yeah, they're adorable dogs. I love dogs. Beth Rippin, Catherine Wells had a birthday. Happy birthday, Catherine.

Anne Leskinen, Hannah Brooks, Christian evans kelsey acres uh she's back she actually she just she just got it thank you kelsey uh and then other producers truly you guys are executive producers thank you you're unbelievable we can't do this without you above and beyond doesn't begin to describe it thank you you didn't have to and did, and we're fucking flattered. Other producers this week are Thomas Smith, Jessica Stivers had a birthday. Jessica, why did I try to- Jessica. Why did I- Hey, I'm Jessica.

I'm from the Bronx, Jessica. Yeah, I was going to say, where are you from now? You going to get some water? You get some water when you're done? Russell Hoggart also had a birthday. Happy birthday. Tyler Bryan's dad, Travis, had a birthday. Victoria Blau's birthday month month james the entire fucking

month shit she took that poor mother her poor mother just a whole month of labor jesus terrible ashley evans ashley vo frank the south african bird washer uh zeka is his last name joy tatum patrick elster he donated both ways thanks pat thank Thank you. Adam Bennett is a fat bitch, evidently. That's what I'm told. Okay, that's not our assessment. Matthew Gunnerstein is in a town of 50. That's a camp, not a town. Janice Hill. Yeah, that is. Whoa.

Very small. Meowzie McDermott, James, which I imagine is Dylan McDermott's cat. Jennifer Visconti, Steve Schnell, Pixie DeLeon, Peter Stone, Lovina Dick, and the Schmellies. Okay. Oh, fuck, and they run.

Daniel Yontz, Alexandria Kretkiewicz, Garrick Rock, Kyle Juarez, Maria Rasper, Aaron Maria Krim was born. Welcome to this dumpster fire of a world. Happy birthday. Good luck. Anna Rodriguez, Sixto Lascanio, James. That's an old baseball player. I know that.

I know Sixto. Rabbi Shmuelovich and Mitch Bloodgreen providing union breaks for gas station employees. Oh, that's kind of them. Courtney McKay, James Marder, Peyton Meadows, Crystal Gabor, Larry Butterfast, and he just got a tattoo. Oh, it's an awesome one. Thank you. So rad.

Yeah, that's a cool one. You, sir, may fuck off. I love it. Well done, Larry. Good gavel going on. Lauren Borden, Borden-o, Borden-yo, Borden-yon? I like it that way. I don't know.

Borden-yon. Borden-yon. Her best friend had a birthday, and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is, so anybody who- She knows who her best friend had a birthday and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is so she knows who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is

and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is

and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is

and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is

and then she didn't tell me who her best friend is and then she didn't tell me who reference there good good ashley taylor and other producers still going james right clark elkins uh lauren coachia mallory frost chrissy boyer darian chanot jamie lee matters zach warren marty rollins eli collins meredith dressing dylan with no last name emily wardlow caitlin snodgrass demas wheeler ashley smith tammy whore wheeler ashley smith tammy whore what what wait a second that's whore right hold on is that with oh so it's not like a like whore like a joke it's no their name is her last name what else could that be literally whore whore like boar that a boar is spelled like that so that's a whore yeah even if you say whore it sounds like you're like an italian guy going she's a whore it doesn't either way it's whore it's doesn't. Either way, it's hoar.

It's hoar. However you slice it, it's a fucking hoar sandwich right there. Damn, hoar sandwich. We're fucked up. Hannah Brooks, Ken Bird, Barbara Sampson, Dean Campisi, Chris McFarlane, Kimberly Vess, Amy Adams, Brett Loudermilk, Carrie Hall, or Hoar. Hoar, Hoar, Hoar. Wade Brechter, Caitlin with no last name, or Whore.

Give her one. Yeah, give her a last name, Jimmy. Come on. Elliot Rubin, Jeffrey Smits, Paul Ashton, Nicole Raywinkle, Christian Evans, Crystal Erb, Jake Seiler, Adcock, Michelle Davis, Brooke, Whore, I guess. Yes. No last name. they're all getting it cody evans caitlin green heather hayes alissa whore mm kaufman nancy galley bryant hawn lane hartwig bammer areola okay whore put whore on the end of that one, I guess. Tina Rice, Monica Sellis. I don't know really.

She got stabbed and then gave us money. Chasery Fink, Bridget Tweedy, John Wing, Kristen Sweeterlich, I think. Kellen Killian, Buck Cabrera, Whitney with whore. You didn't put last names this week. You're getting whore. This is what you get. Kristen James, Jordan Caverly, Michael Kahn, Patrick Megan, Kevin Hoare, the Kettle Black in Philly,

Ashley Grau, Justin Wilson, Brandon Wolfe, L'Cole, L'Cole? L'Cole Talifera, Caitlin Enns, Rhiannon Northdurft, boy oh boy, Megan Costa, Kenneth and Jillian Cook, Krista Hoare,

Christy Mears, Kimberly Barnhart, Alan Hersig, Dragon Ass Hoare. Dragon Ass Hoare. Jennifer Britton, Christina Dragon Ass Hoare. Tiberi, Tiberi, Lillian Giovanni, Tal, what, Thais?

Thais Aru, Arubo Drain. Whore. I don't know. Johnny B. Whore. I just saw whore. Corey Merrill. Johnny B. Whore.

Nikki Howell. David Large. Marion Phillips. Helen Pervusion. Jenna Kowarski. Addie One. 81. Okay.

Whore. Almond. Charissa Voigt. Leslie Whore. Ann Venter. Heather Frawley, Sarah Billington, Sarah Hoare, Sonia Waldock, Crystal Garcia, Candy Hoare. Candy Hoare. I like that. It's a whore for candy.

That's a good one. Alan Faria, Sadie Johnson, Kylie Jones, Chloe Schwartz, Nina Ferrantinos, Jeremy Oakes, Jason Hughes, Christian Hanan, Angela Thomas, Max Harrington, Michelle Brown, Jennifer Sims, Yaku Yuka, Suzuki, Sam Cracknell, Sophie Williams, Becky Bubbers, Caleb Little, Barbara Bacon, Brett Hoare, Dee Hoare, Melissa, nope, that's Mary, Wilson, Jennifer, Aleph Terrace, Cameron Siggers, Brock Parrington, TJ Paranch, Samantha Hoare, Clayton Bailey, Heather Marie, Max Hunt, Kelsey Kimberley, Abby Hoyt, Aubrey Youngs, Evan Hoare, Amanda Hoare, Denton Martin, Patrick Elster. I told you he donated both ways. Laura Steen, Cindy Taylor, Sean Kledick, Aaron Barnes, Jessica McDougall, Lauren Laroni, Dick, Grace Kruitzer, Brett Schwalm, Tyler Ohm, Ashley Evans, Britton Brayton, Brayton Hevelin, Max Kukrowski, Brianna, nope, that's just Brenna, Cole, Amber Carson, Colter Drazel, Micah Bramston, Josh Devaney, Caitlin Hawks, Tracy James, Bobby Barker, Dominique

Tillis, Melanie Sherman, Christian, nope, that's Crystal, Patashal, Patrick Hoare, Kelly K. Orkin, Kelly Q. Orkin, Brian Hagan, Tyson Hildebrand, Nathan Brown, Michael Hayes, Ryan Dibbert, Jimmy Chirko, Kyle Jones, Brian Bacala, Jason Phillips, Karen Porciello, Curtis Stasek, D. May, what is it? I said Paisan. I was close. Carrie Magana, Wendy Ashton, Wendy, whore, an Ashton whore, Carrie Morella, Missy Haney, Maddie Johnson, Venom whore, Big Red whore, Claudia Campbell, Cassie Whore, Alexis Whore, Tom Warner, Sawyer Wilcox, Austin Whore, Allie Smith, and Zanette Mostafijaj.

The whores always come late. The whores come in late always. What was the last one? What was the last one? Austin? No, what was it? Mostafijaj? There you go.

Zanette Mostafijaj. That's not right either. I missed that one. You guys, thank you. All of our patrons. You guys are unbelievable people and we can't thank you enough. You make every week worth doing these shows. You're terrific. Thank you. Honestly, thank you everybody so much. We cannot do this without you. We wouldn't want to do it without you.

And you, not only do you make it a thing that's change our lives, but also you really help our brains that somebody would actually give a shit to want to hear from us. So thank you so much. And what if somebody. You're a bunch of whores. What if somebody. You're a bunch of whores.

You filthy whores out there. What if somebody wanted to call you a filthy whore, Jimmy? How could they find you? You can do that at Whisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, on Twitter and Instagram, both. How about that? Make it easy enough. What about you, James? Where can they tell you how much they adore you? My whore-iness?

You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny, or you can just copy and paste my last name, because it's long and you'll spell it wrong, or just Google Small Town Murder Hosts, and you'll find us both there, and it's less letters than typing both of our names.

Right. So there you go. Enjoy. You can find a little tip there and then you can just copy go to links and you're very easy. Thank you so much

for doing that. Thank you for everything and we cannot wait to come back next week with more fucking craziness and I'm excited for that Patreon. I'm excited Jimmy.

Let's get back. Yeah. We got to dive back in. We got to find more craziness, and I'm excited for that. Patreon. I'm excited, Jimmy. Let's get back. We've got to dive back in. We've got to find more craziness. Do it. Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Or. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

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