Small Town Murder - #242 - First Family Of Serial Murder - Carr, Colorado

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

This week, in Carr, Colorado, the grisly discovery of a young woman's body leads to the uncovering of maybe the strangest clan of murderers that the US has ever seen. A multigenerational family of carnival workers, and short order cooks, who travel the country, robbing people, and eventually committing one of the most horrific string of murders that has ever been seen, before, or since. Young women snatched from all night donut shops, grocery stores, and other very brazen locations. All while the wives & kids, waited in the car. It's an insane tale, that should be known by all, and somehow, isn't! Along the way, we find out that not all of Colorado is beautiful mountains, that kidnapping a store employee, while that store is open for business might not be the brightest move, and that you can't commit Bundy amounts of murder, and not expect people to notice!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman  New episodes every Thursday!  Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail]  Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!  Follow us on...  twitter.com/@murdersmall  facebook.com/smalltownpod  instagram.com/smalltownmurder  Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Carr, Colorado, the grisly discovery of a young woman's body leads to the capture of the first and maybe only multi-generational family of traveling serial killers. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. I think I caught Jimmy off guard there. He shuffled in his chair.

I was swallowing. Ah, I caught him on him. Had to regurgitate a yay. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week. We are excited. We have one of the craziest episodes you're ever going to even hear about today. And it's going to leave you going, how did including myself not know about this always like we should know about ted bundy and this one and that one and these people i feel like should be right in that mix and somehow they're not so

we'll get into it though before we do just want to thank everybody for everything they've done for us first of all this week your reviews count a lot we don't know why we have no idea why but whatever app you're listening on, whatever platform, give as many stars as you can because it helps out the show. Yeah. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com

right now. Get all your merch and everything like that. Get your tickets for future live shows. Fingers crossed that they happen. Speaking of that, thank you so much to everyone who purchased the virtual live show

last week. Wow. We had so much fun and it was just a great show. We got the best feedback from everybody, and we're just thankful for everybody that watched it. It was a lot of fun. Honestly, we got the best feedback of all the shows for this one. Of all the shows so far, yeah.

It was really, really good. We're going to do more of those because they're fun. People seem to enjoy it it's a party at home you don't have to go out you don't have to travel i mean if you don't live close to a city people overseas got to see it it was a good time that's huge so thank you so much for doing that this week you want to join patreon.com slash crime and sports because oh boy we have some wild ones for you this week first First of all, and for $5 or above, you get access to all the shows for both crime and sports and small-town murder, all the bonuses, the whole back catalog, everything like that.

You get a shout-out where Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show. This week the shows are. The one is about a guy named Barry Bremen, who is a master imposter. What a guy. Amazingly crazy story he snuck onto like the court at the all-star game for the nba and like shot around he got onto the field for major league baseball all-star games for the world series he accepted the best supporting actress emmy award put it that way stunning amazing stuff you gotta hear all about this guy's life and then speaking of a life for small town murders

episode we did the origins of the ice man richard kuklinski and you want to talk about a harrowing tale oh my goodness at the end of it you go well i mean the only thing he could possibly do is kill 100 people because i don't know what else you could do after all that so let's check all that out the childhood of the ice man patreon.com slash crime and sports like we said you'll get a shout out and if you just want the shout out and uh you know some good karma and our undying affection you can go over to paypal and use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com if you want to make a donation there.com that said disclaimer time we have to do it we're comedians This is a comedy show.

We're going to make jokes. At the same time, there's going to be murders. And this week, there's going to be a lot of murders. And it's a lot. But we're going to make jokes because we don't make jokes about the victims or the victims' families. Why? Because we're assholes. What?

But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. But there's a lot to make fun of around a murder. Like the idea that you can commit a murder and that you should and get away with it. That's a crazy thought that we're going to make fun of a murderer for. We're comedians. We have no other recourse in this. I can't.

Nothing. I can't go out and prove a case or anything. I can make fun of a guy for being an idiot. I'm not Batman. I'm not Batman or any of those. And although I would enjoy being Batman, I don't think I can pull it off. So that said, if that sounds good to you, we are going to have a crazy time. If not, if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, we might not be for you.

But we might be. Either way, I think at this point you need to sit back and shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. All right. Let's go on a trip to a place you enjoy and a place kind of I enjoy too. Everybody does. We're going to Colorado this week. Hell yeah.

Ah, there we go. The scenic Rocky Mountains. Birthplace. It's lovely. Jimmy is from Colorado. By the way, somebody said that Jimmy had mentioned that he'd ski he'd been skiing before and people are like I grew up thinking or I've been listening for years thinking Jimmy grew up poor white trash and blah blah blah it's

like Jimmy grew up in Colorado Jimmy grew up in Colorado where everybody skis yeah it's just you know a homeless guy standing there with a he's got his hand out and he's got his skis under the other arm it's just how colorado is i did not show up to a ski resort like dumb and dumber no not not in any stretch i didn't have i had like a trash i may have may as well have had trash can lids lids uh zip tied to my feet that made me it wasn't classy that made me laugh i pictured you with the goggles and the fancy parka. No, that's not me. Blonde hair flowing in the wind above the goggles.

I had like a friend's jacket. Yeah. His parents' old skis that they grew out of. It was one of those. You slept over someone's house and they went the next day and they were like, yeah, all right. Let's take the white trash. We'll pay $18 for this kid, I guess. And that was that.

So we're going to Carr, Colorado. C-A-R-R. I don't even know where that is. It's on near the Wyoming border, northeast of Denver, as we'll talk about. Northeastern Colorado, about an hour, an hour and change, almost an hour and a half to Denver. If you go south, about 25 minutes to Cheyenne, Wyoming right there. That's there. And about five hours all the way on the other side of the state from Gunnison, Colorado,

which is our last Colorado episode, episode 179. It has been a while. July 8th, 2020 was that. Holy shit. It's been a long time. This is in Weld County. The zip code here is 80612. The town motto, because this is considered technically almost, this is kind of a ghost town.

So, the town motto is, quote, is this still Colorado? Where the hell are we? That's what's been heard coming from many a car in this area. History of this town. This is pretty funny because there's a lot of weird stuff that happens here where they try to get it going and it just falls back. There's like three opportunities for this town to become something and it never works out. And it just always dials back to nothing. It's a weird place. There's a natural fort here also.

It's a natural limestone location where a lot of Indian battles took place between the Crow and the Blackfeet tribes back in the day. So there's like a serious, yeah, it's a serious kind of a war arena there. Serious. Yeah, it's a serious kind of a war arena there. In 1858 in July, gold was discovered along the Platte River, the South Platte River in Arapahoe County in Kansas territory at the time. And this is this caused the Pikes Peak gold rush and all this shit. And that's why people live here now. I mean, they would have found it eventually, but that's where it started. So many of the people here kind of formed their own area. A lot of these gold people, and that's kind of where this area came from. It's a weird place. The town of Carr was established by the Union Pacific Railroad. So it's another town that was just established because they needed a stop. That was pretty much it.

It was named for Robert E. Carr, who worked for the Union Pacific Railroad. There you go. Another town named after some goddamn nameless middle management dude for a Pacific Railroad here. He managed the construction of the rail line through the town, and they had no better ideas, so they named it after him. And they were oh so thankful. Like, what was that guy's name again?

Yeah, yeah. But Robert. Robert, right? Yeah, yeah. Real sweetheart. Should name it after him. Robert Truck, Robert Boat. Car.

Car. It's a car. They got a post office on April 6th, 1872. That post office closed in 1982, though. It's no longer a post office closed in the 80s. Yeah, they don't even have a post office anymore in this place. From 1872 to

1877, 125 carloads of cattle had been shipped from the car station, which I guess that's a lot. It seems like a lot. In five years, 125 carloads doesn't seem like a lot at all. No. But I guess that's a lot. It seems like a lot. In five years, 125 carloads doesn't seem like a lot at all. No. But I guess there's a bunch of ranches in the area.

And a train car holds a shitload of cattle. Yeah, that's true. It does hold a lot of cattle. This is a very, it's all cattle farms and ranches out in this area. It's just super rural, huge ranches. The Lazy D Ranch is up here. That'll come up in our story, actually. That place is still in operation

and has multiple locations now. The stockyards here were moved from Carr to Cheyenne, Wyoming in 1878. So that kind of screwed everything up. And then in 1879, a fire destroyed the Carr Railroad coal shed. And that was it for that so uh yeah just constant uh disappointment for this place uh in 1890 the population was 48 people by then it just had

fallen apart in 1950 the population was only 202 so that tells you hasn't really 1950 1950 yes 60 years later it was only 202 they tried from 1920 to 1939 they tried to they ran a highway through here but then they added other highways that made this one kind of even more out of the way to go through here so it just became no matter what they did it just everything is obsolete as soon as they get done with it yeah today it's considered a ghost town uh because people are here seasonally but not all year round for the most part there's only about 50 people here all year round it's also unbelievably frigid cold oh in the winter it's brutal that's people it's a nightmare they come for the summer because it's beautiful apparently in the summer and then come you know they're gone by october though it's up in the mountains they're leaving now you know late september uh the there's a few whole old houses that remain

and the schoolhouse is still there and a few old storefronts it's like an old west ghost town it's fucking weird as shit when this murder happened the whole county only had 80 000 people the whole county now there's about 325 000 in the the county. But when our murders happened, it was a very small area. This area, Denver is blown. Yeah, Denver and the surrounding areas have blown up in the last 20 years. They really have. It is truly staggering because I haven't been there in quite some time. It's the same back.

The distance between Colorado Springs and Denver has shrunk tremendously. Yeah. And then everything north of Denver. People are moving to the outskirts of all these towns, especially cities like that. And legal weed made this shit unbelievable. It's had the same growth like Phoenix. It's just spread out wide and lots of people there. You go to Phoenix in 1987, it's not even close to the same place it is now.

It's totally different. 1987, it's not even close to the same place it is now. It's totally different. People here, right now there's 560, but that includes the seasonal population. That's when the most people are here. That's not even, in the winter it's more like 50. It's just caretakers of ranches and shit like that. That's the only people here.

How much land is this? How big? It's not that big. It's a big area. It's hard to put into an exact square, whatever, because the borders are kind of nebulous. Got it. So with 560 people, you could go a day without seeing fucking anybody at all. In the winter, yeah. You'd have to look for people in the winter. It is considered a ghost town.

This town, though, the population has gone up 187% since the year 2000. So just like Denver, it's shot up. A lot of older people here. Way more females than males, but the number of people make it so these numbers are skewed. There's like 57% female. Median age is about 10 years older than the national average. It's about 47 here. A lot of older people.

It's kind of a place that old people go in the summer type of joint. 66% married population, which is way higher than the normal 50. Single with no children, 0.0%. Parts. Hey. Get down. Not fucking one? Holy shit. Not% parts. Hey, get down. Not fucking one. Holy shit.

Not a soul. If you showed up tomorrow, you would be in high demand, I imagine. Anybody would. Any single human could show up. If I showed up tomorrow, I'd be in high demand for myself. Well, you have children. You have children, so never mind. That's true, yeah.

So race of this town, 97.5% white, as you might imagine. It's 0.0% black, 0 Asian, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2.5% Hispanic. That's it. 97.5% white. White, yeah. 30% of the people here are religious. I think once you've seen that kind of cold cold it's impossible to believe in a god anymore i feel like you're like no way a god would do this to a planet this is no no my toes all turned black last winter this is awful so 30 here and

it's spread around no no serious like dominant religion there's uh really nothing 14 catholic is the is the top so i mean catholics are the baptists of the upper rocky mountain region the rockies i suppose uh 0.0 jewish uh last election this whole county 39 of the people voted democrat 57 republican about three percent independent which is low for this area because this is kind of a this is an independent kind of area it's a lot of hippies would you say now i'm gonna do the opposite now uh me and my 400 acre ranch are gonna go its own direction like these are like a bunch of weird like little sovereign properties almost because it's so far out there. They kind of run their own deal.

Unemployment rate here is a little bit higher than the national average, but how the hell can you even tell with so few people? There's not really a household income. There's an income per capita, which is per person, which is about $31,000 a year. Everyone seems to make $150,000 or $25,000 in this place. You either own a ranch or you work on the ranch. That's kind of how it works in this town, essentially. Yeah, that keeps things functioning. You can see it, but that's also why this place is dying.

Exactly. It's just these ranches, and they're not building anything, or they're keeping it the way it is. It's just these ranches and there's no they're not building anything or they're keeping it you know the way it is it's just not gonna it's never gonna change cost of living here 100 is like you know regular average here it is 116 and uh the housing is the high part everything else is pretty normal housing is a 160 over at 100 because. Because the land in Colorado is crazy. It is. And this, I guess, is, you know, it's a lot of, and there's a lot of big properties here, too. There's not like a quarter acre lot here to buy.

So it's expensive. And the median home cost here, $588,200. Holy shit. That is a little bit on the pricey side, I would say. So let's say you need a Rocky Mountain view. You need it all. And who doesn't, Jimmy? We have for you the Carr, Colorado real estate report.

Your average two-bedroom rental here, this is like for the county, so it's hard to say. There's no rentals, I don't think, here. It's like if you work on the ranch, I'm sure they have some sort of accommodation for you. There's probably a ranch hand area, yeah. There's no like ranch hand apartments, I don't think, in the area. There's probably a ranch hand travel trailer off in the distance. That's what it is. Well, it says for a two-bedroom rental in the county it's 1272 which is just about average i found a two-bedroom two-bath 1626 square foot house um it's just a

house sitting in the middle of nowhere i mean it's just in the middle of a field and you have to like eastern colorado is like the plains of the midwest until you hit Rockies. And then it's just boom, these fucking mountains. And it's fucking straight up. And it's straight up. And that's where we are here is in these fields. And you can see the Rockies in the distance. But this is just a house sitting in what looks like. This is Dorothy.

And she's afraid of the tornado is what it looks like. So this town is like in the flat shit area? Yeah, that's kind of where the whole thing is. And there's mountains around it. It is newly updated, this house, though. Everything is new. Everything's updated. It's got 12.7 acres of land as well.

Fucking hell. That's nice. You can get a couple of cattle going. $649,000 for this, though. It's a little pricey for this house. Trust me. Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,874 square foot foot it's on 72 acres this one here a lot of acreage the house is pretty bleak i'm gonna say it's bleak um the property has a very nice view of the mountains in the distance it's

pretty like whoa that they look imposing straight up in the distance here. $675,000, though. That's a lot of land, though, for 72 acres. That's a lot. Five-bedroom, three-bath, this one is. 3,585 square foot. It's fancy. Fancy schmancy. It's got a metal roof, which is going to be loud when it comes to rainstorms.

Yeah, but it's nice when it snows. It's so helpful. Yeah, that is going to help. New it comes to rainstorms. Yeah, but it's nice when it snows. It's so helpful. Yeah, that is going to help. New floors, everything updated. The house is pretty much brand new on the inside. It's on 35 acres. And as the last line of the real estate listing says, quote, multiple chicken coops, exclamation point.

So there's that for you. Get out there and find them 1 million 450 thousand dollars holy shit a little bit on the pricey side i would say what if they take the chicken coops with them is it cheaper yeah you can keep the chicken coops can i do like uh 1 million 440 now what do you say the the house is really that's probably the nicest house in town i mean it's one of it's really nice fancy everything's new it's it's a nice place but for a million and a half dollars jesus christ a bit much it's a little expensive things to do here um well uh stare at the mountains that's yeah there's that yeah um you can just imagine all the cattle moving out in 1875 and go yep that's where that happened there we go go library and learn about the gold rush um

another thing you can do set up a fake town so the railroad people hired by the governor's evil henchmen will may stake it for a real town and then we can get the railroad guys to come help us build it and then eventually they'll destroy that and think they're destroying the real rock ridge so that's another thing you can do here i believe i think you can do that here it's uh we could pull it together me and you i think so uh the other thing there's really nothing to do here they have i found the pawnee national grasslands which looks it's as boring as it sounds. You go visit where the Pawnee lived? You go look at the grass.

That's what you do. It's just tall grasses, and there's just large fields of tall grasses, and you go, hmm, look at those grasses. I'll bet some natives used to live there. That's some good grazing land there. Yep. I'll say so. That's a lot of grass.

That's some good grazing land there. Yep. I'll say so. That's a lot of grass. It's located in the South Platte River Basin and in remote northern and extreme northeastern Weld County between Greeley and Sterling around this area. That will make you wish for some sort of festival. You know, something. I want some bad music, something that's for the children.

Hey, it's for the children, Jimmy. What do you want? Oh, this is up near Greeley. Yeah, it's up all the way over there. Oh, this is bad. Yeah. Greeley's disgusting. That's kind of what I gathered from what I saw here.

Real bad. This whole place comprises two parcels totaling 193,000 acres of grass there. And you look at it. It says the grassland is in an especially depopulated area of the Great Plains. It saw limited cultivation in the early 20th century, but was withdrawn from farming after the Dust Bowl. It's one of the places the federal government paid people not to fucking grow shit anymore so we could have our our you know ground grass grow back and not have a goddamn dust storm i guess the communities of kiota and purcell are located within this and uh the town of grover is there as well jesus and it it just looked real boring it looks like a place where you'd go

if you want to have like a contemplative stare that's where you'd go do it yeah you could touch the grass look at that look at it touch it people were here and now they're not look at this beautiful uh all of the places that you just uh said nobody has ever heard of them no no one's ever heard of any of these places. Nobody's ever discussed their summering in Grover, Colorado. I go up to Grover. I go up to Kyoto. Since the Dust Bowl, it's really come around, I'll tell you. I mean, it was bad then, but now it's really, it's like a bad neighborhood in Manhattan where they're like, you know, that used to be real shit down there in the village, but

now it was just junkies everywhere. You get stabbed walking down the street, but now it's three million bucks for a fucking one bedroom it's the same kind of deal during the dust ball during the dust ball you wouldn't want to be near purcell but now it's all grassy you got it all so colorado yeah this isn't the this isn't people think of colorado they're like oh snow-capped mountains and skiing and they see breckenridge yeah yeah that's beautiful this is picture nebraska there you go this is that's where you are it just happens to be called colorado but it's nebraska i always think of that with color. Anything that's east of the Rockies is Nebraska. Fuck that.

It's east of Denver, James. Denver's on the east side of the Rocky Mountains. Yeah, it's northeast of Denver, this place. Right. Okay. It's right before the mountains. East of the city line of Denver, it's all shit. It's all shit.

It's Nebraska. They might as well have put that border right there on the Rockies. So crime rate, what we're interested in in this place here, right now, and this has nothing corresponding to do with back then, or the town, I just wanted to talk about a ghost town. It really has nothing to do with the murder. It's just where this person was found. So the crime rate in this town is about half of that in property crime, which you'd expect it. You know, I don't know what you're going to steal.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is also about half, which even seems high because you have to be able to find someone to harm them. You know, in order to harm them, you must be able to locate them. That's difficult. In order to commit crimes, you have to fucking be here you have to actually be on you gotta show up premises yeah there's not a lot people a lot of people call it in sick on this one i feel like a lot of sick days being used up over here you gotta punch the time clock to do it otherwise jesus it should be much lower than that much lower that's what i

mean it should be like violent i don't know i haven't seen a person in six months right shit morality aside you gotta fucking be there that means think about this so people the half of it so that means they haven't seen someone in forever and as soon as they see someone they violently attack them or rape them or rob them or something that's terrible what if that's even worse when they see a person they've got a crime that's that's worse i think in cities you gotta walk by lots of people the amount of people that you harm compared to the amount of people you see is way less here it's like i saw two people i harmed one of them it's a higher rate it's a fascinating study i think in new york you're around all these people and one day you just fucking snap and then in colorado in eastern colorado you're not around enough people and you just fucking

snap where's the happy place well that said let's talk about some snapping and let's talk about a murder or shall we say many many many murders uh many many many many many oh boy you can add an extra many to that as well if you if you care to because there's enough murders for really to go around oprah is handing out murders on in this case you get a murder you're getting murdered and you're getting murdered and look at you it's really this is a horrifying look under your seat you get a murder there's's really this is a horrifying everybody look under your seat you get a murder this is so horrifying that even though it took place in 1971 and 72 it's it still feels awful it's still like god this is just awful with these what what happened here and it's

it's a thing that you honestly are going to be shocked that you don't know all about already. You haven't read it. There's not 100 true crime books about it. There is one book about this, and it's an out-of-print book from 1979 written by one of the detectives that worked the case. Everybody else already quit writing on it. Yeah. I think Investigation Discovery did like a short, tiny thing on it, but not a whole. It's insane. Let's get into it. Let's start out on June 16th, 1972. June 16th, 1972. We are going to start out in Santa Barbara, California. Oh, it, probably. Oh, boy. Unless you're a rancher. If you're a rancher, you probably look at Carr and you're like, this place is heaven.

But otherwise, you don't. So now there's a grocery store robbery that is attempted in this area. And there had been a couple robberies around here that people got away with a lot. They're not robbing the register. They're getting into the manager's office and robbing the cash safe. And in the 70s, this is pre everybody using cards and debit. Everybody used cash. There's a lot of checks, too.

But there's a grocery store would have a ton of cash on hand at all times in the safe before they deposit. In the 70s? Fuck, 99 when I got robbed at that pizza place. I mean, credit cards were a thing, but debits weren't really that big of a thing yet. Yeah, yeah. And we had so much cash. That's what I mean. And in the 70s, you know, in a busy California supermarket.

Oh, God. If it's like a Saturday. Yeah, if it's a Saturday, by the end of the day, before somebody makes a drop, it is going to be swelling with cash. Yeah. And they do. There's a series of robberies where $23,000 was stolen. We're talking 1972 money.

That is a lot of money. That's like, you know, two years salary for someone with a decent job. That's a lot of money. In 20s and 10s, James. Yeah. Not even hundreds.

It is. It's all 20s and 10s and ones. 20s and 10s. Quarters and shit everywhere. 20s and smaller. Shit loads of them. Somebody running away, just pockets loaded with nickels. One of the robberies yielded $12,000 as well.

Okay. And then a third supermarket robbery, $11,000 was stolen. Except on this one, it was a botched robbery, essentially. There was a guy named Raymond Carl Taylor. We'll talk about him. He tries to pull off this robbery. A police officer ends up following him away, and he shoots the police officer, Officer Dennis Huddle.

And this is the one person in our story who isn't murdered, is Dennis Huddle. He ends up being okay, even after being shot in the head by a fleeing supermarket robber. So the bullet is removed by surgeons, and they find out it's a.32 caliber bullet. Those guns are shit. Obviously. Just a bad gun. two caliber caliber bullet which those those guns are shit it's obviously it i mean it didn't even just a bad gun and especially back then they made a lot of cheap ones too yeah they made a lot of this is the era of like the shitty saturday night special guns where they would have uh 25 little 25 32s 38s where they were just kind of throwaways essentially and that's that's how that worked so

uh the problem is when they get this bullet out, they realize they run it through the newly constituted NIBIN, which is the National Ballistics Registry. This is like before the National Fingerprint Registries or all that, they had a ballistics registry where you could check for interstate crimes using bullets, which was very helpful and the only way for them to figure this kind of shit out back then. You know, pre pre over arching computer systems and all this sort of thing. The fact that it's a 32 caliber sets off a lot of kind of a lot of alarms throughout the nation as people are looking for a couple of murderers that use a 32 caliber often.

So we're talking from Washington to Florida. Yeah. This is this whole thing is the original Ted Bundy route. Like it looks like it looks like Ted Bundy like did a like a fantasy camp or something like a fantasy camp or something. Like a fantasy camp. That's exactly what it is. It's almost like Ted Bundy was like, I'm going to follow in their footsteps, and I'm going to do all the things they did. And it's going to be like people do historical, weird, like Lewis and Clark followings. So after the shootout, Taylor, Carl Robert Taylor, steals a Raymond Carl Taylor.

Carl Raymond Taylor. Did I say Raymond Carl? Yeah, sorry. He steals a car that someone else is driving at gunpoint, carjacks somebody, throws them out. They called it commandeered back then in the newspaper. Because the word carjacking didn't exist yet. Yeah. Commandeering is what the police do. Yeah, I feel like that's a exist yet so yeah commandeering is what the police do yeah

that's i feel like that's a a sanction thing commandeering like you show me some proof of authority and then that's a different story he just said get out of my car motherfucker get out you may or may not get this back in or around the same uh quality that it's now it's never give me your fucking car i'll kill you but the county will cut you a check if anything happens because it's all on the up and up this is get out of the car or i'll shoot you in the head with my shitty gun jesus so he escapes but uh he abandoned the car in the parking lot that he had originally brought because he had to run on foot when he shot the cop and then he he was already across the street so you can't go back across the street and get the car and then go

so he ends up coming home okay now his brother-in-law who was 19 years old at the time he's 38 by the way our our our tailor here he comes home where his brother-in-law who's 19 his name is danny mccrary yeah it is he's at home and uh he says that taylor burst through the door and i'll let him describe it danny the uh syntax is wonderful in this entire episode he said quote he came to the house and he come in and he was scared up. He was in California. He was scared up. They're from Athens, Texas, as we'll get. Yeah, they are.

He was all scared up. I'll tell you what. That's a I'll tell you what situation. He was scared up. That's people from Santa Barbara. No, no, no, no, no. This isn't even like inland trash in california this is scared up as some south texas riverside meth heads are like what'd you say what was that

mother of a year wow okay he continues quote he come in and was pretty white and he had a few marks on his side, he said, I think I killed the police. So that... Oh, boy. Whoops. Hey, can you imagine you're sitting there watching the Flintstones? You're just hanging out. It's 1972, and then all of a sudden, your brother-in-law bursts in.

Jesus, I think I'm all scared up, first of all. I've got to tell you about that. Second of all, I think I killed the police. You'd be like, are you out of your fucking mind, dude? Get out of here. Go. scared up first of all gotta tell you about that second of all i think i killed the police you'd be like are you out of your fucking mind dude get out of here go i think i just killed a police leave get the fuck out of here so um they the the witnesses all around ended up getting the license plate of the car because the car he left there was like his car which is traced back to him traced to an address in goletta i don't know where that is g-o-l-e-t-a

goletta california yeah i don't know where that is but that could be it could be a different name now that's the other thing those towns in california those real estate agents would fucking change that if it wasn't our developers if it didn't sound uh you know inviting to yeah to put expensive houses on they're like go letta no one wants to live there this is now called beachside this is called spring hill that's what it is now sunshine specific palisades now. Fuck that. It could be. So they get to this house, and it is occupied by 47-year-old Sherman McRae. He is the patriarch of the family. His wife, Carolyn, who is around the same age, we'll get to them. 19-year-old son, Danny, who gave us the scared up thing there.

And also 38-year uh raymond carl taylor and uh he ends up being arrested this is three days later they uh end up arresting him not there though when they burst into the the house in galetta there's there's just the three of them living there without this taylor guy taylor had already gone to Texas. So they grab him from Texas. They bring him back to California to, you know, fess up to the robbery. And shooting a fucking police. Yeah, attempted murder. And there's a few. He fled back to Texas.

He went back to Texas. They're very mobile, as we'll find out. They said that everybody said when the cops when they arrived to arrest to try to find him in california they described that they were living well which really they've they've robbed they've got 50 grand they say they've robbed 50 grand in the last few months so yeah that back then that's a shitload of money you can live well they said they had two rented homes in an upper middle class area yeah they changed that name from Galetta to something more appealing. For sure.

Yeah. And drove two late model cars. They had, you know, the McCrays lived in one house and the Taylors had the other house. That's how that worked. So they were doing fine just living on robberies. But like not going back to like some like train car, some little one bedroom hold up. They were. Yeah. This is their business.

They're blending into society with their pilfered means. That's crazy. Well, this is just what they do for a living. Yeah. They just rob things for a living. Rob's drug dealers, that kind of thing. Let's talk about Rob's drug dealers. Let's talk about this family.

They are originally from Athens, Texas, but they are completely they're wanderers. They are nomads. Let's let the Los Angeles Times describe the family here from 1972. This was in the newspaper. Quote, for most of their lives, the men aimlessly wandered the American Southwest, scratching for jobs as ranch hands carnies and fry cooks the women worked honky-tonk carnivals too or hustle jobs as waitresses in sad little cafes wow that is their existence this family that is a poetic way of describing trash that's

it is that's that is some nelson algren level shit right there. That's impressive right there, I gotta say. So we'll get into it. Sherman McCrae, Sherman Ramon McCrae, McCrary, I'm sorry, M-C-C-R-A-R-Y, McCrary is their name. years old the paper the newspaper once everything is all said and done they have little captions for each of them this is this person this is who they are this is what they're about here's a quote from them so i'm going to give you all of these like it like a like a a prison school book or yearbook like a shit bird shit bird yearbook it's like the end of animal house and where they are now where are they now type of thing. They give you, or almost like in the beginning. If you write a script, you're going to give like an old timey script would have a description of the characters in the beginning, like a play script. So that's kind of what it is.

Sherman McCrary, 47, drank a quart of liquor a day. He once said he had a bad heart and a bad back and began a string of robberies in texas because he was out of work he says quote it was business with me so that's him his his son danny who we've heard from already danny was raised quote he's 19 and was raised to believe crime was a business he broke away from the the family once, but returned home sick. In the family, children don't question their parents, he said. Okay, so we'll start there, and we'll get into the rest of them. Sherman, he has had some issues.

This is not new for him in the early 70s. James, his measurement of drink per day is a quart. A quart. That's disgusting. That's a lot. I've said it before. That's a disgusting measurement of booze. On a quart that's disgusting that's a lot i've said it before that's a disgusting measurement of booze it's on a daily level yes yeah yeah it's a lot of booze to drink by the day and it's not beer it's hard alcohol oh it's measured in quarts with this guy it's probably cheap whiskey i'm thinking yeah so he had an issue in california before he had an issue in California before he had been kind of in and out.

I guess on 930 p.m., November 11th, 1964, he was found to be missing from the work camp prison work camp that he was in. A thorough search of the camp and surrounding area was made with negative results, according to this court document. There are indications that a possible reason for this escape was because McCrary's pending transfer to a northern institution for a psychiatric evaluation prior to his board appearance of whether he was going to be, how long he'd be held for. On July 24th, 1965, he was apprehended in Chicago. Oh, my God. Made it all the way there.

Yeah, by the FBI. The FBI found his ass. He was returned from California and he appeared before the court and pled guilty to a charge of escape from prison camp without force or violence. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

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that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye.

The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So he ended up essentially, or eventually,

I'm sorry. He got released from prison in California on parole and then just skipped parole and ran away. So he's, he's been wanted for parole violations for years. He's an absolute shit bag. An absolute, he's a carny.

He's a, an Athens, Texas carny. He's a robber, a scumbag, a stealer, a swindler, just that kind of guy. Hustler, every day he wakes up and goes, how am I going to eat? How am I going to eat? Now there's Carl Raymond Taylor.

And I'm sorry I will say it like that from now on. Carl Raymond Taylor, not the other way around. He's 38 in 1972. He is Sherman's son-in-law they say quote he is mean and dangerous here is his quote that he said quote i know what i'd done was wrong all morally and legally wrong however all the money that i have taken has went to support my wife and family has went so has went to support my wife and family what a guy now a former employer of him guy named john artzer he employed him as a cook at a coffee shop in west denver in 1971

in december of 1971 keep that in mind he's in december he's in den, West Denver, West Denver in December of 1971. Now, they said he employed him as a cook and he said, quote, he's a very good cook. I could always depend on him. And he said that his wife, Ginger, who is the McCreary's daughter, as well as McCreary's daughter. That's where, okay. She's 32. That's how he married into it. She works at, would work at the coffee shop as a waitress while he was a cook. That was kind of how they did it. Like the older McCrary's would work at Carney's and then the, this generation would be like a cook and a waitress pair off. Got it.

I guess they come as a pair. Ginger McCrary. Uh, she is Carl's wife. Uh, they describe her as quote is sickly and compliant, suffering from asthma and poor vision. She has four children.

She has four children, the last one born in jail. And here's her quote. I love my husband very much and it never occurred to do anything other than to stay with him. I've never heard of somebody that wears glasses to be called sickly

sickly with asthma and poor vision poor vision isn't part of it that's not sick that has nothing to do with anything kareem abdul-jabbar wasn't sickly but he had those fucking goggles on you know what i mean like kurt rambis is sickly as fuck all sickly dude just so bob greasy was super sickly in the 70s i don't know why we're only bringing up 70s people that were before our time even we're just bringing up i've never seen a healthy uh the guy that played for the bulls god damn it he had a horse grant there he is horace and harvey yeah poor sickly Sickly. Sickly. Sickly.

Sickly. Because he has bad eyesight. Poor vision. Maybe they mean like forethought and shit like that. She can't see the future real well. No, that's definitely not. Unprepared, so sickly. No. Carolyn Taylor. How bad is her asthma that she so sickly no carolyn how bad is her asthma that she is sick i don't know if that's

just to just say like she wasn't a physical force in all of this yeah i think that's what they were getting at but it's just like skinny and doesn't eat a lot like that and in the case she's like an olive oil type i guess but yeah in the cast of cast of characters, I think it's just to give them a little bit of zhuzh. The funniest excursion of a person I've ever heard. Sickly. Suffering from asthma and poor vision. Poor vision is the way why it's so funny, by the way. If they said bad vision, that wouldn't be very funny.

Poor eyesight, not even funny. Poor vision. I don't know why that's so funny by the way if they said bad vision that wouldn't be very funny right poor eyesight not even funny poor vision i don't know why that's so funny it's the girl from from ap bio that's poor vision that's what they're trying to describe her as coke bottle heather from ap bio no she's not sickly she's fine she just sees like shit that's the only thing the rest of her seems fine i'm sure she's fine but sickly it's so funny okay she's got a little bit of wheeze and needs glasses so she's sickly sickly sickly look at her she does have poor vision though with uh who she married let's say that that's that's poor vision it's basically me next up yeah next up is carolyn and she is she is the wife sherman's wife um they describe her as 45 years old sherman's wife quote is almost illiterate now she once wrote this is her writing and we, and I have to stop in the things that I need to stop at.

Quote, I am guilty of staying with my husband, no D, while he cometed, committed, C-O-M-E-T-E-D. Cometed. Robberies, with one B, because I dent, D-E-Nn-t have anywhere else to go sad she have left her behind she said most people won't hair like your hair on your head because i don't have an uh and it oh and i think it's supposed to be education e-c-i-t-i-o-n yep i think that's supposed to be education and i'm poor and in poor health with no a or i'm not large enough uh so i stay with my husband it may sound crazy but i love him so very much so that's that's her so we gotta we got quite the clan here this sounds like what a group this sounds like- What a group.

This sounds like the Manson family somehow mingled with the Chainsaw Massacre clan and Texas Chainsaw Massacre clan, and now we've come up with these five fucking monsters. Holy shit. It's wild. So, from the, this was an AP article, but this particular one's from the Akron Beacon Journal, November 12th, 1972. Huge headline. Quote, family of nomads, dealers in death?

Question mark. Yeah. So they're known back in Athens as troublemakers and pains in the asses and, you know, your basic arm length arrest record. Yeah. But mainly bullshit, fuck ups and robberies and car thieving and stealing shit. They car break ins, public drunkenness. OK. They're the pain in the ass white trash family where the cops are like, oh, Christ, that fucking trailer again. The one with the shit bucket on the porch.

Great. OK, fine. Great. Okay, fine. The guys were working as itinerant ranch hands and carnies on and off, depending on where the work was good. And the women were waitresses, like we said. They were in East Texas, and they would travel around the South, sometimes working, but supplementing that with crimes whenever they could so they'd work as a carny but then if they could rob something and get enough money to last for a few weeks and they just quit the jobs as carnies and live like that and it's a real real scummy existence and what's going on here so um a probation officer

from california wrote uh quote there is no question that the family operated as a group, a family group and participated knowingly in the various acts and benefited from these acts. So this wasn't anybody being dragged along. They were the women would help set people up and the guys would follow it through with force. And it was a it was a whole thing. And it's fucking insanity. And it was a it was a whole thing. And it's fucking insanity. And while they're doing this, too, they for most of the time, they have Ginger's three young sons with them as well.

Oh, my God. Yeah, I know this also because I found a there's a there's an article about this, the whole thing, where there is an extensive comment section of a lot of people who there's a couple reporters in there and there's a lot of people who were very close to this murder or a lot of these because there's a lot of people involved so they were i'm a family member of this person i know this and that so it was helpful to piece some information together but this uh this whole thing here there's all these people are all of ginger's kids uh carls i think so yeah we believe i believe they're carls but who the hell knows that's it's such a mess one of the kids one of the commenters was someone saying that they were ginger's oldest son okay he was the one saying a lot of most of these articles fail to mention that through most of this we were with them it was all

of us including me and i remember this being remember this being a crazy fucking time traveling around being dirtbags and never knowing where we were or what we were doing. And P.S., that was my childhood. Yeah, I was six at that point. We're talking like three, four, five, six-year-old kids in this whole thing. So they were residing in Athens, Texas, taylor worked on a ranch nearby in henderson county the manager of the ranch said that taylor quit his job in early january 1971 and he had said in as of 1972 quote i haven't seen him since so he just took off and they said basically the end half of 1971 all the way through kind of from 19 early 71 through 72. The family would disappear briefly.

They disappear for a couple of weeks. The whole clan would leave and then they just pop back in a couple of weeks later. So they would. Everyone figured they were going off doing like robbery sprees or something. That's what everyone figured because they're such dirtbags. The ranch manager said that, yeah, there was three preschool children at the time, and those are Ginger's kids that were going around with them as well. So it's a lot. It's a lot.

This family, you can smell it. You know, like we've set up the aroma and the whole. There's a slight piss scent. Yeah, there's some mold in there. Definitely like firewood that's been burned, like a smokiness. Smells like the musk of an animal, but it's people. But it's people. Smells basically like a goat, like they describe Richard Ramirez.

They are a goat. A human goat as all together. It's a little sour, but also it's like a ferret, but it's people. Like a nice ferret. Now, in Santa Barbara, that case, Taylor and McCrary are put in jail because Taylor shot a cop and McCary sherman is wanted for parole violations from way back escapes and every other goddamn thing so they're they're all there now the ladies and even danny the 19 year old are all held for harboring fugitives as well because they know that they are wanted for crimes everywhere else so they're just trying to hang on to these people as long as they can so they can figure out what's going on and while in jail the police come to see sherman and

they want to have a little chat with him about something the main thing they want to talk to him about is something that happened in colorado and that is uh a woman's body was found recently at the lazy d ranch in in Carr near the Wyoming border. And that was, if it's an old ranch, it's been there forever. They find that the body is a missing person who's been missing for a few days now.

It is 20-year-old Leora Rose Looney, which is a cool name. L-E-E-O-R-A. Leora. Really is. That's a cool name. So, Leora Rose Looney, she's 20 years old and had last been seen three days before that. She was discovered, she disappeared Friday, discovered Monday.

Okay. She's discovered in a pasture on the Lazy D Ranch out there by the Wyoming border. She is nude, completely naked, face down in a field of tall weeds found by a guy named dean smith and another guy named leo barthelow of cheyenne and smith is the foreman of the ranch so they were doing rounds and they found those are ranch hands those are those names yeah those are dean smith nice you. Yeah, those are certainly ranch hand names. Those are big time.

Now they find signs of strangulation here that look like it could have been fatal, but it really doesn't matter because they also find three gunshot wounds. Oh, no. This victim, one in the back and two in the back of the head. victim uh one in the back and two in the back of the head so um it's six buttons were discovered nearby which they think may have belonged to the victim but no other articles of clothing and also she had been raped as well god damn it's absolutely brutal brutal killing of this poor young woman and just tossed her in a field of tall grass there you go just discarded her the autopsy revealed the immediate cause of death was a wound to the back of the head one of the gunshot wounds presumably the first one they said that uh the girl was probably

shot in the back first and that the murder probably occurred the night she was abducted probably same night and she because there's a extensive decomposition there as well she's been there a while yeah because this is you know the summer so i was it's august she was uh all the bullets that were found were from a 32 caliber handgun as well back with the 32 caliber one bullet flattened from hitting a hard surface was found about four feet from the body that indicated that one shot was fired. At least that one shot was fired at the scene because they don't know what shots were fired. They don't know where she was killed.

So they go, well, at least one of these shots was fired here at least. So that makes them think that maybe that was fired there. However, they say the other injuries probably occurred elsewhere. So this was just kind of the final place they took her and decided to leave her. No footprints or tire tracks or signs of a struggle were found around her except for those buttons and one bullet. Got it. That's all they know of. She is, like we said, Leora Rose Looney.

She's 20 years old. She is, like we said, Leora Rose Looney. She's 20 years old. She was taken from Lakewood, Colorado, which is outside of Denver, as anybody who's been to Denver knows. She was working at a Mr. Donut shop, a shop called Mr. Donut. And she's working. I think she's supposed to get off at midnight. She works nights there. So this happened at 1030 at night.

She was taken. She lives in Thornton. You got to work all night to have those donuts and shit ready in the morning. That's a miserable life. That's so tough, man. Plus, they're open for sale all night because if you've ever been to a Dunkin' Donuts, they're all open 24 hours a day because people come in early. All donut shops are open 24 hours, which make them attractive spots to rob, especially if

you're like an interstate family of thieves. Right. So she worked there. She had gone to school in Fort Collins, and she has a boyfriend in Vietnam at the moment. Got it. Jesus. Yeah. She's working nights at the donut shop while her boyfriend is crawling through a jungle.

And it's, you know, don't mess with this poor girl. This is messed up. This poor woman. So she's reported missing from the donut shop in Lakewood. The report was made when the donut shop was unattended. Someone came in to get a goddamn donut, stood there for five minutes and went, oh, where the hell is it? There's nobody here. Holy shit.

So they called the cops and said, I don't know what's's going on but this donut shop is like wide open and nobody's here yeah there's about that so the police come and uh they find her purse left open and her car parked near the shop still so her purse is open no money in it and her car is still there the cash register drawer was open and about a hundred dollars had been taken from the register yeah a bunch of people were there that were going in and out getting donuts they reported seeing two men in the donut shop just prior to her disappearance they bought bought donuts and then left, and these gentlemen remained. They identified them as Sherman McCrary and Carl Taylor. So those are the two men.

One of the witnesses said Carl Taylor was at the cash register while he was doing his thing, getting his donuts. Carl was, like, waiting to be next. So this is, is uh he's there you know the whole time that's definite so in a tape recorded statement jesus christ mccrary then i'll we'll get into the details of it but this is just the the beginning of it he says he was away from the car when when Leora was shot and killed. He says he doesn't know anything.

He says at one point, we'll get into his detailed statement, that he went into a bar to get a couple of drinks. When you drink a quart a day, you can't not drink or you'll start getting sick, I imagine. I'm about a pint low. We got to stop. Put my dipstick in me and see what I need. Oh, shit. Two pints. Let me get a quart just to make sure.

Yeah. I think two pints is a quart. I know. I think so, too. I said that. We had to try to figure out liquid gallons as it corresponded to wood recently. Yes. A quart of wood, if you look it up, how much much it is it'll tell you what it is in liquid

gallons which is not helpful when you're talking about pieces of wood right and how many those are so i don't remember what doesn't make any sense why a cord is that i don't get it it fills up my shed that's all i know there's that much so i know how many gallons of liquid wood it takes to fill my shed up now, which is impressive. I need that. I don't know how to measure. Is it denser wood? Like, is orange tree wood, like, is it more liquid gallons? What do I look like, fucking smoky?

I have no idea. Who the hell am I? Who am I? Bill Nye the Forest Guy? I have no clue about any of this shit. Is there a lumberjack that can write into the show, please? I want to know how that became a thing and fucking why. Yeah, I don't know why they chose that measurement.

That's weird. We'll do it in liquid gallons just to make it fun for people. Let's make them bust out the calculator to figure out if they can keep their house this winter. Let's fuck with the city folk and do it in liquid gallons dicks a bunch of assholes unbelievable so he says he was away from the car getting boozed up when this happened he said quote i heard him that's meaning taylor holler something back to her i don't know he was choking her or something i was too far away to see i was disgusted he says he was disgusted by the whole thing you know just disgusted by it he he wasn't okay with this apparently i'm not disgusted enough to get involved i mean stop some shit i still

went in and had a couple of drinks but yeah i thought about it and just shook my head i'll tell you what it was i don't want to look at this. I judged him that night. I did. I judged him. So here we go. Here's his relation. Here's the murder. Because he gives it right up to these guys in jail in Santa Barbara when Colorado police come to see him.

He says that he and Taylor had driven down to Denver from a motel in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where they were staying. That's where the whole family was staying. He said they went, quote, to look for a place to rob or hijack. Okay. That's something to leave the house with. You got to leave the house with a goal. That's the thing. You don't want to just go drive around.

Take the fam up to Cheyenne and see if we can find somewhere to rob or hijack. That's what I do with my kids. I'm like, what do we do here? After several hours of drinking, which right away is a bad sign, and not finding a good enough place to rob, Sherman and Taylor went into the donut shop just for a cup of coffee. That's why they went in there. They said for a cup of coffee. When they started to leave, this a very self-serving for

mccrary obviously he said when they started to leave taylor went back in quote to get something else and that's when he went to the car and waited for taylor and mccrary says that he realized the gun was missing from the car at that moment and he's like oh no the gun's missing. And he said that he, quote, knew what was happening then. And he said in a few minutes, Taylor motioned for him to drive the car around the back of the store. He said, like, you know, do one of these pointing things out the front. So he helicopter motion. Yeah. Yeah.

Do one of those. You want to see helicopters? I'll show you helicopters. helicopters i'll show you helicopters so he said he drove the car around back where taylor forced leora into the car and he handed sherman a quote donut sack full of money wow i don't know what a donut sack is i assume hundred dollars and whatever was in her purse was a donut sack i mean probably in ones and fives though i bet it's a lot of small bills for donuts. No one's dropping 50s in there. Yeah, just to make a change.

Yeah, that sort of shit. So they head back to Cheyenne. On the way back to Cheyenne using back roads, he said that they stopped for 20 to 30 minutes so that Sherman could get something to drink because, as he put it, this is what Sherman, he put it, quote, Taylor had done got him scared up. Why is everybody scared up?

Scared up. Done got him scared up, Jimmy. He done got me scared up, officer. I don't know what. I said, I need a drink right now because he done got me scared up. I'm all scared up. All scared up right now. He's starting to done got me scared up i'm all scared up all scared up right now because he's starting to sound like stevie to me now he's got that hot stuff on there he's all

scared up right now got that hot stuff on there what kind of speech patterns bananas it's very strange it's a weird and i'm from new york and i'm even saying this is a strange speech pattern And I'm from New York, and I'm even saying this is a strange speech pattern with full awareness of what I'm doing. My stepfather worked on cement mixers, James, in the concrete industry. And he would tell people, I work on concrete mixers with a K. He sees the bags of that shit that says concrete on them. That's what I'm used to so i i've i've listened to dummies my whole life but nobody in my life has ever said i'm all scared done got me scared up no no done got me scared up yeah wow so he said after getting in the car again less scared up now that he's had a few

drinks in him he says that uh he asked taylor what are you going to do with the girl at this point? You know, what are we doing here? To which Taylor said that he was going to, quote, going to take her out of town there a ways and tie her up. OK, there are ways. OK, that's some that just reminds me of the live PD guy. Like, well, where's the truck park? And he goes yonder with full earnesty yonder points. Okay, so he said he's going to tie her up and and before she can get back to town will be gone.

That's the thing he said. So I'll tie her up and leave her there and eventually, you know, she'll get out out of it and shit but we'll be in we'll be in cheyenne by then you know what i mean with our donut sack full of cash absolutely so sherman claims that while they're driving away with her in the car and donut sack full of cash and he's all shit hammered and everything else a police car pulled up alongside of them at a stoplight and the police looked over at them police officer and drove away didn't look oh my god yep uh so close sir this young lady in the car so then with the police gone and no threat there they drove into a side road and then onto a field and this is the lazy d ranch mccrary says he got out of the car to see if there were any houses nearby. He's like,

I'm going to go look around and see if there's houses or if we're alone out here. Apparently, Leora asked him to stay, from what he said. He said she asked him to stay because while he was in the bar, quote, Carl had made a few passes on her, was messing with her or something.

You know, trying to rape her in the back seat yeah that's in layman's terms jesus christ mccrary had previously this is what he tells the cops obviously but it's bullshit had warned taylor to quote keep his hands off of her yeah he's so concerned we'll find out what a concerned guy he is because if this was the only thing that he ever did you might believe him. But I wouldn't. But someone might believe him.

Wow. When you hear the rest of this, you're going to go, well, that's complete bullshit. So he said while he was gone looking for houses in the distance, which I don't know how far. It's a big field. How far are you going to walk for looking for houses? We walk three miles in each direction. Look around. Do you see any houses?

Do what you got to do. You can see where you are to the tip of the base of the Rocky Mountains. Is there a house in between there or not? You don't need to walk. But he said while he was gone, he heard several shots and then returned to the car. And he said he told Taylor that some houses were probably nearby. And he said he told Taylor that some houses were probably nearby. And he said that Taylor then dragged Leora's body off the road and dropped her off in the field there.

And they resumed their trip back to Cheyenne. And nowhere in there did he mention who raped her. There was no rape at all. No rape. But that that happened. So now the police after this, because of the witnesses had been looking for these two they went everywhere as we'll find out they so have the family so they had to kind of follow them around the country before they finally tracked them down in california the pursuit went from kansas city to oregon washington utah and then over to california my god you know ted bundy the ted bundy tour yeah

they do some traveling so yeah so now he's sitting in prison or in jail in california awaiting to be tried for all his parole issues and robberies and everything like that the colorado cops come to talk to him about leora and he gives them that whole story which is a self-serving bullshit story. But it's still murder. He still put himself in for murder. And while they're there, they are there, the Colorado police, when they're coming out, they run into another set of cops. And these are cops from Texas that want to have a chat with them. Oh, we want to talk.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Ballistics had helped them out in a shooting that they say linked the family to a chain of slayings in Texas. The way they put it, they said that there's six murders they're looking for related to these people and related to the 32 caliber gun. The police chief in Mesquite, Texas, Glenn Grayson, where three of the victims live, said he'd been told by authorities that, quote, the nomads were being questioned about 22 murders. 22. Holy. In all different states.

Everywhere. What? In everywhere. I mean, how have we all not heard about this? Yeah, how does that not make the paper in every city? At the time, but it just never... It's so strange because Ted Bundy, they're still making Netflix multiple part series about Ted Bundy

dramatic ones, documentary ones. They find 38 seconds of new tape of his voice and they're like, let's run it down again. Every one of them. Six episodes, I think seven and a half hours should do i think for all this for 38 seconds we'll squeeze it in there somewhere let's dig up ann rule she can talk too we'll put her up there she loves to talk she'll talk so doesn't she die now ann rule i think she died i think she's dying that'd be

horrible so i'm not sure don't quote me on. But I think someone sent me that she was dead. Anyway, there are... Fuck, man. 22 murders. That's crazy. That's what I want to talk to them about. That's a lot. That's a whole family going across the country. This should be like the Mount Rushmore of killers.

You should be like Bundy, Dahmer, Gacy know kemper the mccrary family zodiac like it should all be in there i feel like it's the lady that spills education e-c-t-i-t-p-s and a number in there somewhere it looked more like erection than education i was gonna say that and i'm like i don't think she's trying to say she has an erection i doubt that yeah she's a 45 year old woman but maybe so they say it's ballistics that did all of this 22 people the one police santa barbara police captain said we don't know the number that might be involved they have to try to extradite people as well now all there's all sorts of they have to extradite them all over the place to be trying them ginger tay Taylor, who is Carl's wife, she gives birth to her fourth child in prison at this point in the Santa Barbara jail, not in prison, in jail.

Then was taken into custody. She is being sent to Colorado to face a bad check charge in Lakewood. And they said that relatives from Texasxas ended up taking the baby she had in jail back to texas with them thank god yeah i'm sure they're gonna raise her should raise them fabulously i mean i don't know maybe they did i hope so for christ's sake so it's the rich side of our family don't worry it's the good side her her this daughter actually posted on these things too. She's in there. So she's at least kind of alive and well. One of the sons, the oldest son who said he was in the mix,

said he had like went to jail for drugs and stuff later on. But then he found Jesus and cleaned himself up and all that. So in this family, I don't guess. Somebody find something. I don't care what you fucking hari krishna do something because this is what you're doing isn't working put it that way no the religion of robbing winchels is a bad one and it's not working at all and then people die needlessly where do you hear how many evidently 22 at least jesus yeah or at least that's the thing because if they're all around who knows

oh god what if they had a different gun these are only the ones they can link to them through a gun wow so we'll we'll talk all about it and the reason why we made leora the kind of the main story is because that's the one where sherman actually gets put in prison for that's the one that busts them they both end up in colorado prison over that so that's that's the main one sherman's not talking about a rape but he did talk about a murder and a robbery which is an aggravator and in colorado that'll get you the death penalty why don't you talk about the rape well in 1971 it won't get you the death penalty because there was no national death penalty in america then but the rape but it makes you sound bad though it makes you sound this sounds like i went to rob a place and then my crazy son-in-law got all loopy and i was like what

you gonna do don't you touch that girl and then sure enough he's shooting her you know how it goes that's not a story but that's his story not a bright guy no one ever said he was the brightest guy out there now danny young danny waived extradition uh toition to Texas to go there for a parole violation. That's where they're going to start. And then they're going to try to link murders to the family. Yep. So they said there's only minor allegations of like car theft and shit like that. But they need to talk to him there.

Now, Danny in Texas, they revoke his probation because he was placed on probation in June of 1971 on charges of breaking and entering a motor vehicle. They said that he had not reported to his probation officer since January 31st of 1971, though. So of 1972. Yeah. So he just disappeared and he didn't pay his probation fees as well. So there's that. disappeared and he didn't pay his probation fees as well so there's that they said that sherman and carl taylor are expected to be extradited soon to either colorado or utah they're not sure because there's shit in utah that we'll talk oh we'll talk about it where they've been charged

with federal warrants for kidnapping a salt lake city waitress who was later found dead. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about that. Members of the family, they're all under investigation for murders at this moment in Texas, Colorado, Idaho, Missouri, and Florida. And you can throw in Oregon and Washington and Missouri. Oh, Missouri's in there. Okay. So there's in there. Okay. So there's a lot.

You could probably throw in every state that's in between there because it takes more than a tank of gas to get through those fucking states. That's what I'm saying. They could be any. To get gas, you got to rob people. You got to rob people. Now, the wife here, Sherman's wife, she refused extradition. She didn't want to be extradited, which is hilarious. She was serving a nine month term in California for harboring a fugitive. And she

doesn't want to be extradited. But obviously she's going to be. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

The thing they want to talk about in Utah happened on August 12th, 1971 in South Salt Lake City at the Winchell's Donut Shop. Oh, yeah. Several Winchell's are going to come up here. Really? Yeah. These they were very particular to donut shops because they're open all night okay it's 24 hour places and donut shops are usually the one that are open all night this is 10 30 p.m there's a cop outside sitting in his marked patrol car you know no undercover

or anything near the donut shop working inside the donut shop or who's supposed to be in there is a young lady named Sherry Lee Martin, who's 18 years old. And the officer, while he's sitting there, notices that the Venetian blinds were closed off like it was closed. They were all closed up, but Winchell's is 24 hours. So he's like, why are their blinds down? That's weird. And this gives a cop an excuse to go into a donut shop obviously which i needed to investigate the venetian blinds weren't in their usual but i wasn't getting i wasn't getting donuts johnson you fucking asshole god damn it making fun of me in front

of everybody to rob you don't i mean you wouldn't go to it's an old cliche joke yeah you wouldn't go to a donut shop you don't go to the places that cops are at it's like they doing i think there was like several jokes in the 80s that would be that like you're like robbing a donut shop you walk in there's 20 cops that was like an old crazy tiny joke so the police officer contacted the owner of the shop and was told that yeah no it should be open definitely should be open i don't know why it would be closed so uh now sherry had just graduated from high school she was supposed to be working the corner the owner gets there and the owner and the police

officer go to walk into the place and find it's locked like what the hell is going on here this place is never supposed to be locked. It's 24 hour joint. And they said Sherry's car was still parked outside. So like it's locked up in her cars here. So she must be inside. Does she have like the worst case of diarrhea in Winchell's history? I mean, I'll be back at this time clock. Yeah. Just a dumb and dumber Jeff Daniels, you know, blowout moment.

What's going on here? Yeah. But they said there was no sign of her and there's no sign of the $83 that should be in the register, according to the receipts and everything. So Martin had been working the evening shift there for about a month, so she was still pretty new there. She would work until 11 o'clock or sometimes midnight. This was at 1030 when the police officer noticed the blinds down and then another employee would come and relieve her. And on and on it went. They suspected police didn't look into this as a missing person at first.

They looked into it as thievery. They looked into it as she stole the money. Really? And took off, which I don't know why you'd leave your car there if you're doing that. Right. That is shoddy police work i'm gonna trade my car for this 83 that's what i'm gonna do and just run off into the night no so they said 83 that will last me the rest of my life on the run that's it never gonna catch me

never gonna go into mexico making a run i'm make this money stretch. So that's what the police thought at first. But then once they started asking around about her, they said, that's very unlikely because she's just known as a really nice girl. She's not that kind of girl. Yeah, but that theory should have been shot down as soon as an officer said it to another officer. Well, why? It's logical. Is that clear to your fucking mind? It's logical, though. Maybe she stole it. She's not here's logical though maybe she stole it she's not here

and the money's missing so and she's only worked here a month yeah that's that's a logical thing do you think she stole it and then they go hey what kind of person is here real good girl good grades is that not a thief and they go okay maybe someone stole her instead but it takes a minute to get to that occam's razor what's more likely what's what happens more and the money what happens more people steal from work or 18 year old girls are pulled out of donut shops what happens more every day people steal from work every day are you part of a murder podcast james because if you are then it's that's true that's true but it's more than likely if you're your first thought as a cop shouldn't be, I bet it's a murder

kidnap. I bet it is. Everything that you come across, because you're going to waste a shitload of time. Well, we would, yeah, because this is what we're used to. It must be a horrible murder. I wonder where the head is. I see signs for cats missing, and'm like oh great now there's a cat murderer everywhere oh no now five years from now they're gonna move on to women great

but that's what happens though i don't jump to there's clearly uh and in the desert uh coyotes that are clearly eating people's cats i jump to somebody's gonna be murdering my children tomorrow that's why you'd make a terrible cop. Yeah. The worst. Most shit is Occam's razor. What's the most obvious? If there's a dead wife, the husband probably killed her.

If there's missing money, who fucking works here? That's all there is to it. I mean, it's opportunity. That's what they look for. But no, instead they said she's not a type of girl that would run away from home she's not type there's no point for that because in a little while in like a month she's leaving to go to dixie college she's leaving home anyway so there's no it's not like she would take the money and run off into the night with 83 which like we said would be fucking stupid to think

about yeah and they said she just wasn't the type of girl to run away she's a mormon she's a hardcore mormon she's an a student in high school she likes to sew in her spare time okay she's not stealing the donut money and running off into the night a sewing mormon who's going to college next month it's gather a posse yeah that's what i'm saying let's gather up with the else someone took her which is uh fair so they said quote her father said quote we had the feeling that night she disappeared that something had happened to her that's pretty obvious yeah she was never the type of girl to leave home without telling us where she was going we would have heard from her but they couldn't find any signs of her. And police were still skeptical.

They still, even after all of this, they're like, yeah, she's a nice girl. She goes to church. She does all that shit. But we don't know who she's been hanging out with. Does she have a boyfriend she met maybe recently that said, hey, we'll steal the money and then it'll look like you got taken. Who knows?

But the police suspect her more than anything. They suspect it's a plot with her. Then two of her friends, a couple days after she disappears, said they go to the cops and said they saw her in a mall. We think we saw her in the mall. Oh, no. So this causes more confusion. People are terrible at identifying faces. And we all are, as we've talked about many times.

This is her friends misidentify a person as her so it's possible so the cops are even more skeptical they're like oh now she's going to the mall big spender with her 83 she's going in there she's buying orange juliuses she's buying mrs fields cookies for everybody handing them out wetzels pretzels are coming off like nobody's business and annie's for everybody. We're out for the house. She's buying them for everybody like she's some kind of big shot. Give them the cheese sauce.

Give it to them. You know what? Go ahead. Throw in a dollar on the kid. Just pop in the air. Give them the cheese sauce. You know what? Cheese sauce for everybody.

I got it. It's my donut money. Fucking $83. Very stupid. it's my donut money fucking very $83 very stupid if she stole $8,300 you'd go oh maybe I mean who knows even that I wouldn't believe it but $83 is really dumb an FBI agent comes into this Joe quick with a C CW IK quick that's speak what that's speak speak yeah probably a speak but i'm calling him quick because that's cool okay i know it's not quick but i'm calling him quick that's why i spelled it it's polish i got a friend whose last name is speak yes cw isn't qua i know that but

it's definitely quick joe quick that's awesome i'm fbi agent Joe Quick. That's better than Joe Friday. Joe Quick. You want your relative found quick or Joe Quick? You want him found Joe Quick and then he's out there. Joe Quick. Find him lickety split. Joe Quick finds him lickety split. It's got a commercial.

Hell yeah. So he was called into the case two days after she was allegedly reported in the mall yeah quick said that the only clue he had to work with because the store had been wiped clean he said there's no fingerprints anywhere except for a coffee cup that had been left sitting on the table there was distinct fingerprints lifted from the cup and the the shop's cash register showed that the last two purchases recorded were for two cups of coffee and police locate a woman who had come into the store about 10 p.m and made a purchase she said two men were sitting at a table and one of them used profanity loudly so she turned and stared at them because it's utah we get stared at a lot

in utah as you might imagine because that still goes on now 50 years later yeah so joe quick he said he recognized the method of operation immediately he said oh no we've got a crazy person running across the country knocking off people so he's he's right into it he's you know he's an fbi agent so he sees a little bigger picture here he's quick he's quick with this real quick 28 days after martin disappeared sherry martin her very decomposed body was found by pine nut hunters i don't not hunters you're a pine nut finder the hunter you're a pine nut finder. The hunter. You're a pine nut picker. Picker.

To me, you're not a hunter unless the thing can at least bite you or something. Like if you if you had to fight it head up, you might lose with no weapons. You're hunting it with pine nuts. You can do that with your grandma and a basket and it's fine. You know, you're not hunting. Making pine nuts sound dangerous. You ain't a hunter gatherer. You're just a gatherer.

Honey, I'm going hunting today. I don't know when I'm going to be back now. I can't tell. Unless I get scared up out there, I'm going to be back late, late. Nope. What am I hunting for? Don't forget my gun. It's pine nuts, honey.

I'm hunting for pine nuts. I was trying to look big in front of the neighbors. I wanted the kids to respect me. They can hear me in there i'm one of the kids think daddy killed mammals and shit so they're afraid of me you're messing my blow my whole spot up jesus in the desert south of wendover i didn't know pine nuts grew in the desert either i didn't either no idea that's a whole new level of danger to the to a to a vegan salad yeah it does for me um it also makes sense though because they use pine nuts in italian food and it would if it grows in the desert there that means it grows in like sicily and southern italy too so that makes

sense her oh jesus this is brutal talking about pine nuts and going into this this poor sherry martin her hands had been tied with her own nylon stockings she'd been shot nine times uh total of nine slugs recovered at least four times in the head and at least four times in the torso they can't figure out where the ninth one went but uh yeah it's absolutely horrible they're obviously 32 caliber by the way. Now, the fingerprint for the next several months, Joe Quick went around linking the McCrary McCrary clan, because now they're all, you know, at least arrested. They're on the shelf for the minute for the moment to various killings. 18 months after Sherry disappeared, that's when he had taken the photographs around to people who had been drinking coffee and had them identify these two and all this type of shit. So this guy's really working

it hard, putting it all together. Now, Carl and Sherman are in jail, obviously, with the shooting. The officer did survive, like we said there in that original shooting, by the way. Later, though, survive like we said there in that original shooting by the way later though Taylor's prints are matched to the coffee cup in the Salt Lake City coffee shop and a federal warrant is issued for the kidnapping of Sherry Martin so

there's that now Danny's down in Texas at this point Danny's been ex as you remember he gets taken for his car breaking and entering into a car so now they're also charging him with two counts of murder with malice afterthought the 19 year old is in some for some shit yep they charged him with those crimes just to get him there so he wouldn't fight extradition and now

they're gonna they're gonna drill him here with all of this they set bond at fifty thousand dollars on each charge which might as well be $30 million for these people. I don't know how they're going to rob fucking that much money. So he's accused of killing not only here. He's accused of killing a couple named Forrest and Jenna Covey, C-O-V-E-Y, who vanished from a grocery store in Mesquite, Texas, where Jenna worked and Forrest was going to see her. They ended up having their bodies found on October 21st in an abandoned bar near Quinlan, Texas. Jesus. October 17th, 1971, they're taken.

Forrest and Jenna Covey. This is a grocery store in Mesquite, Texas. And there is a person, by the way, that claims in the comments on one of these things, somebody comes on and says, my parents are Jenna and Forrest Covey. This is this poor person. I don't know how to say this or if I should. I think I was the last person besides Danny McCrary to see them alive. I witnessed the terrible struggle in that car. I called the police and told them what I saw. They weren't interested until they were found dead. Wow. I could have seen this.

I could see this in my mind a thousand times. I wish I could have seen this. I could see this in my mind a thousand times. I wish I could have helped. Jesus, that's... Don't give me that information. Yeah, I didn't need to know that. Thanks. If anybody has more information in terms of, like, you know, some happy memories or something. Not...

Or I think she wanted to know, like, legal shit, too, but she didn't want to know. Yeah, I was watching them in a terrible struggle and probably could have helped them, but I didn't. So, not really helpful. I gave that information information to cops and they couldn't help either not at all that was october 17th 1971 october 20th 1971 the sweet cream donut shop in mesquite texas there's a young lady working there named susanarlene Shaw, who is 16 years old. Good Lord. Her nickname is Rabbit. That's what her friends call her. Yeah.

And she is three months pregnant at this moment as well. Oh, my. There are a couple of different. The weird thing is there's people in all these comments, different ones. The consensus seems to be that her boyfriend's name was John Maimone. But there is also in the newspaper reports of her having a different boyfriend. But this is the guy that everybody says was her boyfriend and the father of her child. So I don't know if the newspaper was just behind on teenage makeups and breakups or whatever the fuck. But, you know, they're not up on it all the time if you're a reporter.

whatever the fuck but you know they're not you're not up on it all the time if you're a reporter so uh the police uh the her brother or this guy john's brother says the police came to our house and took my brother for questioning so they thought the boyfriend they were looking at him right away uh susan called our house that night that she was abducted this is she called the boyfriend's house before it happened. My mom was the last person to talk to her. She told my mom she was scared because of the people in the shop, which was this psychotic family that abducted her.

She was looking for my brother because she wanted him to come to the donut shop, which as we found out from Forrest and Jenna Covey would have just gotten him killed as well because they weren't going to be like, oh, there's a guy here now. We'll run away. They were going to pull a gun on both of them.

Maybe he's got some money to steal. Who cares? So, yeah, this is this is brutal here. Obviously, all of this, no more than one hundred dollars taken in any of these robberies, by the way. But multiple people murdered. October 24th, 1971, 16 year old Susan Darlene Shaw is found in a lake nearby

two young men walking on the railroad tracks near Lake Ray Hubbard spotted her floating in the in the you know in the lake she had been shot six times which is brutal and um yeah this was by the way two hours

later several miles away two other men find the bodies of forest and jenna covey in a barn in quinlan texas so there's just bodies popping up everywhere this is all over the place yeah insanity they asked the police if they're they think there's the same killers to blame for everybody. And the police chief said, quote, it is an assumption, but I think it's a pretty good assumption. Yeah. They're all being found at the same time, for Christ's sake. And they're all within two miles of it. How many fucking people you got killing people in Texas?

It's ridiculous. The Coveys apparently were killed in the barn, they said, and they know that the man was shot in the back. And also, based on the way it's set up, they believe that they probably were, you know, a little bit of torturous to raping the wife, making the husband watch, shooting him, shooting him to make her upset and then shooting her too you know torture them both and then kill them so yeah horrible just horrible to everybody you know bad fucking people the hands of both of them were tied with bailing wires and they called the bodies badly deteriorated which is fuck that's so brutal man that's awful and And like we said, poor Jesus, Susan Shaw was found floating in Lake Ray Hubbard. Wow, that's fucking bad. So the Covies are also found to be loaded up with.32 caliber bullets as well.

Each had been shot at least six times. And in addition, they also find a couple of.22s in the mix for this one. So they're thinking multiple assailants by this time they all they put it together that it's the same 32 caliber used in all of these crimes that they've found that we've just talked about all of them same gun same gun not yeah interstate with a murder weapon that you used 20 times are you out of your mind uh the national integrated ballistics information program which allows law enforcement agents to compare ballistics data from crime scenes to others

is what helped them do this they could actually run it through a database so they said they were no closer at this point to catching people though because they they just knew all the bolts were connected they didn't know about him yet so um here's a quote from here's a quote from mom here this is mom mccrary here right all right she says they asked her when they had her in jail at this point how the fuck could you sit by because she was involved she was there she's in the car for half of this how could you sit by while your husband your son your son in law all these people kidnap rape and murder women how could you how could you stand that they said they found out the women would usually wait in the car and watch while the men raped the

women and killed them and they were just like oh they're doing their guy things out there fucking it's like they stopped to play darts or something. It's insane. She's got to assume that this is everybody's life, right? Yeah, I think so. Well, they asked her, what were you thinking? How could you let that go on with those poor women? How could you not save them?

She said, quote, they're no kin of mine. Wow. Oh, that's terrible. That's her answer. That's some cold shit i don't fucking care about those people i care about the people that i'm in the car murdering with those are my that's my kin wow um i'm scared up i'll tell you that right now this is scaring me up um so not the only ones in texas either by the way there's more in texas november 1971 elizabeth perryman Texas, November 1971. Elizabeth Perryman disappeared on September. She disappeared on September 28th.

71 is found much later on this. She disappears very close to and the day after this opens the Panhandle South Plains Fair. Of course. So this is the Panhandle Carnival is what's carny action. And they believe they're working there. Yes. It's the day after. Now, Lubbock detectives who are investigating this disappearance of Perryman, she's a 26-year-old waitress who disappeared from a Hub City cafe.

Again. So they said that he, they said there's similarities between the mesquite slayings and this slaying so that's how they kind of put it together she disappeared from uh the toddle house is the name of it 28 59 34th street between 9 20 and 9 50 p.m uh this is the night after the panhandle south Plains Fair opens. So the police suspect foul play. Obviously, a small amount of money was missing from the cafe and Perryman's purse and personal effects were found inside the locked building after she had vanished. So she all of her shit was still there, just like the other one. Her husband found the place locked when he stopped by to pick his wife up from work.

He was like, oh, sat outside. She didn't come out. He went and the doors locked. He's like, what the fuck? What's going on? So they said that a Lakewood police officer said there's a chance that a guy, there's other guy that we'll talk about in a minute named Harris is involved. That's who they think this is.

They don't even pin it on the McCrary's yet. They have a whole other guy. They said, quote, we can put him in the donut shop that night. She was working alone in the shop. So December 19th, 1971, Elizabeth Perryman is found near Amarillo. She, yeah, it was at this point, though, the McCrary's are being held there. So they're trying to figure out how they're going to charge or who they're going to charge. But they actually arrest a different person for this at first. Great work, fellas.

No shit. The FBI ballistics test established that markings on the bullets showed that slayings of the six people here in in texas were all related either 32 caliber or 22 caliber pistols or both were used in each of the slayings and they did a check against other ones and found them there the uh coveys the forest and jenna and and uh susan shaw were shot to death with 32s and the ballistics test later showed the same gun was used to murder the two girls in Utah or the girl in Utah, the girl in Colorado and Amarillo, Texas, waitress. So but the problem is they arrest a guy named Everett Clinton Harris, who's 31 years old. That's who they arrest. Local scumbag is generally wouldn't as would be his title.

Um, the, they said that Jesus Christ, they said that, uh, there's amazing similarities to all the killings and they think they have their man. They have him in jail.

At least half a dozen witnesses have told investigators. They saw Harris at the two Mesquite businesses on the night of the abductions. harris at the two mesquite businesses on the night of the abductions so either they're wrong or this guy is the most unlucky coincidental motherfucker on earth this just minding my own business just minding my own business this to me reeks of 1972 cops show you a fucking photo line up with their finger on the guy they want which one of these guys you see any of these guys look familiar one of those deals you know what i mean this guy look familiar at all remember on the wire when bunk's doing that with uh he's like with keema

yeah any of these guys look familiar tapping on the one guy's head and she's like don't do that i don't remember but she's a cop and remember. But she's a cop and knows that trick. She's a detective and knows that trick. People just think they're helping. Right. Because they think it's this guy. So I feel like. And the cop knows better. And he probably has some information that might help in this.

Exactly. That's what you're thinking. He just needs me to corroborate. Right. He needs me to help him here to do this. I think that's what people think. And instead, they said officers have no physical evidence to connect harris with the killings but uh they just the coveys disappeared from a mr m food store in mesquite they said that uh they have no physical evidence but they do have her

him being seen at both places the nights of the murders like i said wrong or the most unlucky poor fuck the fucking forest gump of murder bad luck essentially he just shows up in the background of every murder man this is disturbing so april of 1972 we'll go back to Southern California now. Sherman is in Folsom Prison and Carl Taylor is in San Quentin. Both of them have been convicted of the robberies in California and also parole violations. They've both been sentenced to terms of you, sirs, may fuck off five years to life. They both got, which is a very large swath of time. It's a big gap. Five years to life they both got, which is a very large swath of time. It's a big gap. Five years.

Unless the person's 106 that you're sentencing. That's a really, that's a lot. We're going to leave that up to somebody else's discretion. We've done our part. No shit. So around this time, while all this is going on, there's some people that would like to talk to them in Florida as well. In Florida, the bodies of two women are found on the floor of Nell's Style Shop. It's a clothing shop near Keystone Heights.

There's two, like I said, older women in their 50s that are found. We'll talk about them. Yeah. And then in addition to that, they are missing one of the women's teenage daughters as well. Can't find her. But the women are found murdered, tied up in their own shop. So that gives you an idea of where the fate of whatever they're missing is. Probably not terrific here. This is Bobby Turner, who's 38 years this is bobby turner who's 38 years old uh patricia marr who's 22 years old and then bobby turner's daughter valerie turner who

is 16 years old again and uh yeah they said that they the uh the uh patricia marr and bobby turner were killed in the beauty shop there. It's between Keystone Heights and Melrose in Florida. They said the daughter, Valerie, was abducted and they found her several months later. Several months later. Yeah. An early morning customer came in and discovered the rope bound bullet riddled, nearly nude bodies of the two women in the beauty shop when they walked in and the 16 year old was missing.

Jesus Christ, this is fucking horrible. So when she's found, she's essentially a skeleton. When Valerie's found, it's terrible. So Florida police want to talk to the McCrary's as well. They said there's no no link to it except for the similarities of the whole thing. It's mainly like the FBI is talking, the Bradford County Sheriff's Department. They said that they were

there. They said they found that Sherman and his daughter Ginger and probably Taylor were all in Florida for five months before these killings took place. They found that they were there. So they said they still have nothing to tie them to the crime. Jesus Christ.

Now, they did talk to a witness, a 63-year-old Tampa woman, who said that they lived next door to her when they lived there. So they were like, oh, good, maybe we'll get some info. And she said that she never saw any evidence of criminal activity. She said that she just was awoken one morning about 3 a.m. as the family packed up their cars with two trailers and a truck and they were gone. They were taken off doing a slums of Beverly Hills middle of the night pullout. Yeah. Which I always imagine there's like a just a stream of villagers with pitchforks and torches behind them.

You son of a bitches. You killed our daughters and stole our money now the people they have a suspect in this carl de gregory he confesses he's 27 years old oh carl he uh yeah he confesses he says that you know he he did everything he killed them both he took the girl He murdered her as well. He's a chemical firm representative that travels between Ormond Beach and Charlotte, North Carolina, all the time. They drove him around the site he described where he said he put Valerie Turner's body, but it wasn't there. And then they figured out he was full of shit and he didn't really do anything. shit and he didn't really do anything they said that so they wasted all this time interrogating this guy for days taking him to fucking spots in the woods to try to find bodies that don't exist there so yeah not great asshole who they do find has a good connection to it based on the ballistics

is carl taylor there that's that's who it is's not Carl. Also, the witnesses put him at the beauty shop between 8.30 and 9 a.m. on the day that this happened as well. This is from testimony from a Betty Breeden Harnage concerning a car she saw parked in the front of the beauty shop covered with dust and a little bit of clay bearing a Tennessee license plate. This is a nosy woman. This is in the parking lot of a beauty shop. She testified later on that there was a black and white tag before the first number four, and then a one, and then some zeros. So they ended up- Who pays that close?

To some random car in the parking lot because it looked trashy. They said the tag was lettered. It was a Tennessee plate 4-f6101 and that's what they found they ended up uh they the tag had been found on the shelf in the back screened in porch at a ranch at a ranch near trinidad texas where carl was employed under his name under the name name Raymond Taylor instead of Carl Taylor. The house was located after an interview with Ginger, who gave him up, gave his location up in Texas. So then they went there and found the other part of the license plate. And they were like, ah, hey, stupid.

So they want to get him to Florida, but it's hard to get him to Florida because they have to extradite him to Florida. But there's like a line of states that want these guys. So, yeah, there's a take a number for. Yeah, no shit. They make a typographical error in the first legal papers submitted by Florida causing their return to Florida. So the the D.A. said, quote, I'm hoping now the papers will be back in California soon and we'll learn something within the next 30 days. Supposedly, they'll notify us in the next couple of weeks whether all our papers are in order and if we're in line for taylor or if we've got we've got to do something else florida's been fucking

up for 50 years yeah that's sorry you've you were the worst at this they these killings happened first and you found out about them last you're the dumbest and then you can't even get some paperwork right to get a hold of the guy colorado had it together the most texas already had a hold order with california for taylor basically if you're gonna let him out you're sending him here for a murder charge here taylor admitted complicity in the slaying of at least seven people colorado utah oregon florida texas he's admitted to those and they estimate at this time that between 17 and 24 victims exist that's the estimate they have now they said once our papers get out there they'll let us know on the form i don't care about that never mind so an fbi ballistic check on the weapon used in the pacific coast used in the in the uh the cop shooting

showed it was the same pistol fired in six texas slayings and the florida uh the florida bureau of law enforcement they're testing the bullets to see if it also killed them and it's the same bullets that killed the beauty shop owners so the main thing is a truck driver is a good witness for the Florida murder trial of Taylor. Okay. He's a guy, this guy, Lloyd Becton. He's a driver. And he told the circuit court that he had just pulled his rig off the road to work on his truck log. Quote, when I saw two men and a girl come out of the door of the beauty shop so he

witnessed them abducting her yeah he said he knew the girl was 16 year old valerie turner after he was shown photos by the police department he said first one of the men then the girl and then finally the second man got into the car parked outside they uh he said that he recognized them he pointed at taylor and said taylor was the first guy and he said uh you know that's where they are so there's a witness putting him there so there is also a confession in colorado like we said they both confessed to the colorado murders sherman gave his whole spiel of that shit um they said uh during his confession one of the officers said quote they'd consider killing a person the same way you and i would consider stepping on an ant they were

classic sociopaths absolutely no regard for human life no for 80 for 83 they'll happily do whatever so he wants to change a venue he said hey it says in the papers i might have killed 22 people this is sherman in colorado he's like you can't fucking you can't do that there's been so many so much publicity absolutely not uh but they say no we're good that was like a year ago they were good now also he wants his statements tossed out as well. He says that when the two Colorado officers went to California where he was serving a sentence on the other charges to interview him, he said that at the same time, the Texas officers were there, too. He said the Texas officers interviewed him first about his involvement in the Texas murders. He said the Colorado officers were in an adjoining room and they could overhear part of the interview,

and they did. They testified that he was advised of his rights and he heard that he chose to remain silent with the Texas officers, but then he fully admitted to Colorado shit. So he said the Texans continued to question him and told him that his wife would not be able to withstand similar questioning. Like, you may be able to sit here and take the heat.

We sit your wife down with her poor vision and her fucking asthma. That sickly bitch is going to talk. She's going to spill. That was ginger, I think, with the poor vision. Either way, one of these sickly motherfuckers is going to talk. They can't take it like you can right he made no statements in a three-hour session to the texans and uh he said that the colorado officers said at times uh there was he was testy with the texan officers probably

because he said i don't want to talk and they stayed there for three hours yeah they said we came all the way from texas we're going to talk with you for three hours. So after the Texans finished their interview, the Colorado officers attempted to question Sherman as well. They advise him of his rights. He chose to remain silent at that time and they stopped questioning him. interview with with him and before this he didn't make and during this he didn't make any statements november 16th the colorado officers again met with him advised him of his rights and he said he uh that's when he gave them their statement of i did nothing i was disgusted by what was going on god how dare he don't touch that poor young girl right he says that the statements of the colorado officers were coerced by the texas officers threats on his life and to his wife's mental health he said they threatened me so i figured i better talk to the colorado guys because the texas but he didn't

talk to the texas guys it scared him so much he had to talk about another state's murders it was just really coerced him that's he got all scared off james wow he said that he felt compelled to want to be extradited to colorado rather than texas based on he thought they would like beat him to death in texas is what yeah the i mean he's probably right i assume that's what happens no shit so his statements are all allowed in though carl taylor's wife and his daughter here ginger testifies before the grand jury tells on them she's given immunity from prosecution in the case as well that's why i would say so they believe that mccrary was guilty of firing two shots at her and the strangulation marks were a result of the rope

being tied by carl taylor so they said they did one and one the prosecutor says quote carl taylor had the rope and sherman mccrary had the gun and it was sherman mccrary standing up there shooting that's the speculation on my part but it's a reasonable inference. He says that in court. So they end up, they call what Sherman's story is, quote, a tissue of lies. A tissue. It falls apart real easy? Is that what he means?

He said, Sherman McRae is a tissue of lies. He's the man himself, not his story. His actual person is a tissue of lies. He participated as much in this as carl taylor and under felony murder it doesn't matter who killed her if they did rob the donut shop together and in the course of escape a homicide occurred then they are each guilty which we talk about in our rules all in our disclaimer all the time that's how that works by the way there's a case in colorado when I was reading it where

it's a crazy case that I don't remember the outcome of it, but there's a boyfriend-girlfriend. They rob a place. They end up killing someone in the robbery. I'm sorry, they don't kill someone in the robbery. They're fine. They just rob

a place, run away. Police chase them. They have a big high-speed chase where the guy's shooting at the cops nobody's killed but he's shooting at the cops while they go they drive to an apartment complex they both go hide in the apartment complex while the cops swarm around looking for them the woman gives up she comes out hands up and and you know surrenders the man they don't get him for another four minutes during that four minutes he shoots and kills a cop they charged her with murder oh wow but she's in that's the gray area she's in custody but it's it's still technically during the act of the escape yeah but she's in custody now so now where does that land that's

a crazy legality thing that i found interesting so anyway when was that was that recent no no no i think it was the 90s i want to say 80s or 90s i'll look the case up i have it on my computer i don't remember i'll look it up on my computer after this we'll talk about it so the defense here he they they play the uh the tape statement they say that you know mccrary says that taylor did all of this and he knows nothing that's their defense what he said is true so they said quote where is the evidence that sherman mccrary knew what carl taylor was going to do to the girl if he didn't know what was going on how could he aid a bet and assist in the crime there's just no way they said doesn't matter felony murder stupid you're fucking the other part is like 22 times before man what what happened then was it just

him they're not on trial for that here they're in trial for one thing you gotta understand man the the history of you fucks you've done this a lot you just want the prosecutor to be able to go there's scumbag carnies who fucking kill people everywhere all over the place you got a donut shop fucking lock him down because he's coming to steal the waitress out of there fucking rape her and shoot her eight times that's the thing it's happening yeah um a jury of seven men and five women here they uh find him guilty of felony murder and kidnapping in the case of Leora and under the law the only sentence he can

receive for felony murder is you sir may fuck off life in prison for Sherman and also the maximum sentence for kidnapping which is 30 years as well fuck off and fuck off again and then he can keep fucking off when you're halfway there.

He's never getting out. That's over. So, now his wife, Carolyn, she pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of accessory after the fact of murder in connection with the death, and she testified as well, and Ginger McCrary also testified,

and yeah, Ginger is in jail awaiting trial on a bad check there. The prosecutor said that he was, quote, damn glad that it came out like this. Damn glad he knows how to swear. Damn glad. Now, Sherman's lawyer spends the next two weeks. He gets a reprieve from the court before everything is like filed to find new evidence that he says is there for that he digs through trash yeah it says quote lawyer searches trash for

evidence and murder which is a great headline he asked two weeks he asked for he wants to sift through a pile of trash for evidence that might prove danny mccrary did not kill this woman this is the one in texas we're with danny in texas again now the bits of evidence mostly beer bottles paper bags cigarette butts and other garbage you know garbage trash yeah was introduced to a courtroom and the lawyer said your honor it's impossible for the fence the defense to be prepared with this evidence seen here today either give us two weeks to examine the evidence or declare a mistrial the you know uh the judge said this scanty evidence does not warrant a mistrial unless the defense can produce something more concrete the trial will proceed and that's that this is

bullshit no shit sherman on the other hand is just thrilled he loves prison he's doing great in prison he's in colorado right now in prison they said he was totally emotionless for his conviction you know when he got convicted no expression the sheriff's captain said quote his attitude hasn't changed a bit since his conviction. He ate his supper Monday night. Everything is the same as usual. He didn't even lose his appetite. James, this guy doesn't even have to rob anymore. He robbed.

He robbed them out of meals for the rest of his life. That's how he feels. Prison might be better than working a carny forever. Yeah, it might be. They said the sheriff also said, quote, he's very easy to get along with. I guess different minds run in different channels some fellows will be pretty bitter and others will take it with a grain of salt of course what they are thinking inside you don't know obviously yeah so night

1973 danny's in court in texas may 1973 and his lawyer searched through all the garbage and everything like that and they they want a new trial and all this type of shit and they they want all these witnesses stricken i found pizza crust i found a pizza crust and two newport butts now he smokes marlboro lights so this does not belong to him. And he said he don't like that Italian shit. Italian shit, he said. We have got a bombshell of a toilet paper wrapper. Oh, my God. So they said, fuck, man, he's on court for this.

His lawyer repeated and insisted that it was someone else possibly any of the other suspect questioned including the one that was arrested for these cases in texas who killed the covey family or the two he's on trial for mrs covey for jenna covey not for forest covey they said one of the one of the suspects especially everett c harris he was arrested and charged with the robbery of the grocery store from when they were abducted. He was held for more than a month, but then released because of lack of evidence. He was released on November 29th, 1971. June 12th, 1972, Harris died of pneumonia.

Oh, my God. So there's no way to charge him or no way to get any information out of him. But they had charged him and then let him go. They said that that he indirectly linked Harris to the barn area near Quinlan where the bodies were found. Harris lived of Quinlan told investigators they were driving near the barn where the bodies were found about the time the slayings were believed to have been taking place. The women said they reported hearing about 20 shots

and then identified a picture of Harris as the man they saw in the area at that same time poor bastard so I don't know if that's whatever I don't know who but the bullets are matched back to the prairies so it makes yeah he just has the worst luck so he was seen in both

places the murders happened on the day they happened and at the fucking barn that they were shot at. How is that possible? Is he related to these? Is he the sixth member of the Klan? Is that what it is? Is either part of that family or just the unluckiest man alive?

Unluckiest. He died of pneumonia in six months. Fuck. At 31. At 31. Either that or the cops in Texas can make anybody identify anything for anything anybody for anything which is so feasible yeah it took the jury of eight men and four women seven and a half hours before finally finding danny guilty of the murder of gene covey you sir

may fuck off life in prison for young danny who's about 22 at this point in time when he gets sent away. Carl Robert Taylor tries to plead insanity in Colorado for the Leora thing. Yeah, because that would be crazy. That's how crazy would I have to be right in front of my father in law? Are you kidding me? right in front of my father-in-law what are you kidding me he is convicted and sentenced to you sir may certainly fuck off because he's i think the scummiest of them all yeah he's the one who really likes to rape it and all that shit yeah sentence of james of children yeah yeah teenagers fucking 16 year olds pregnant 16 year olds it's disgusting it's a terrible thing to do. Sentenced life in prison for you as well.

So Ginger, his wife here, she testified against him and her father and was sentenced to, you ma'am, may fuck off, three to five years in prison for bad check writing. Okay. So there's that. That's it. That's all she gets. That's it. Because she testified. They gave her immunity on the murder stuff same thing with carolyn she is serving you ma'am may fuck off two years for a misdemeanor

as a as an accessory in the slaying they gave her a misdemeanor and gave her two years for that unbelievable for killing a 20 year old girl um for being an accessory to that they said that the sentences are to run consecutively, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, Taylor will begin serving his term in Colorado, and if he ends up being paroled in California, then he gets to go to Texas. So if he's paroled anywhere, there's another state waiting to, he's got a prison sentence all lined up to go there.

So he's been convicted all over the place. He pleaded guilty to the robbery case and two other cases in Dallas, the three in Dallas. He pleads guilty to around the Dallas area. Ginger pleads guilty, like we said, to fourteen hundred thirty seven dollars and 80 cents in bad checks. She gets sent away for three to five years in prison. October of 1974, this is when they're doing the Sherman confesses

to Lakewood police in Colorado for the murders in Texas. He tells the Colorado police, I did kill those people in Texas. This is Sherman. He says that he killed the Cove he uh he killed the he killed the the coveys and he killed the other young lady and he said that the but the statements were not

admissible under texas law because they were made to another law enforcement agency and not them so is that is that is that real what is that yes it does it's not it's not they don't know their procedures if they got the things in the Texas way or whatever. So the Texas Sheriff's Department visited McCrary hoping to get him to tell the story to him. And he said, no, thanks. I don't feel like you wouldn't tell him again. Fuck you, Texas. So they get no fucking confession there.

So also October of 74 here now, Judge Henry King sentences McCrary to you, sir, may fuck off life after evidence presented that he was convicted in. This is in life in the California case for his escapes, not just his robbery. So now he's got a life. Also, he's got a Colorado life. He's got a California life. And then Texas colorado life he's got a california life and then texas wants to try him for three murders that he has been confessing to yeah and then and then florida would like to talk to him oh by the way they'd like to talk to him in washington and missouri very badly as well oh then there's utah let's not forget about the young lady in

utah so it's it's a lot the uh dallas county jury of six men and six women deliberated for only 12 minutes before they found McCrary guilty of the robbery of the grocery store. Three identified three employees identified McCrary as one of the two men who robbed the store. So he's found guilty in Texas of that. in texas of that now uh they later both taylor and mccrary sherman both confessed to the elizabeth perryman murder really they both end up confessing to it now the it's for a book they're interviewed by by a but they're interviewed by a police officer for the book. It's county chief deputy at this time, Van Perryman. That's Elizabeth's husband. Really? Yes. He, you know, obviously lived through all of this shit. He's writing a book about his wife's murder?

No, no, no. It was found through this book, but he's talking about the book. He said, I took my wife to work, and three months later, her skeletal remains were sent to me. That's a pretty glib way to put it, man. Holy shit. Fucking Grimm. What's his name? I'm sorry.

This is some Grimm Van shit right there. I don't blame him. It's his wife, but that is the most depressing. I guess, you know what? He's putting it in a matter-of-fact way, so he can tell you how horrible it is. True. He said that his life's gotten better. He remarried. You know, he's putting it in a matter-of-fact way so he can tell you how horrible it is. True. He said that his life's gotten better. He remarried.

You know, he's all good. But he said he'll never forget the pain of the killing. He said he can remember watching the television in 1971 when his wife's body was found three months after she disappeared. That's how he found out about it. He remembers seeing a law officer on the television news place her skull on the hood of a police car. Why would they allow that to be shot and put on the fucking news? That's hard. Yeah.

You think you'd say, get the fuck out of here. Good God. Now, in this book, Sherman McCrary and Carl Taylor interviewed about the Lubbock restaurant robbery where Perryman was abducted and killed. So Taylor said, quote, So I figured I'll just go on in here and I'll just take a rip at this place. I'll just take and rip this place off and I'll leave her in there tied up, split right out of here. That's what he said.

He took $125 and also ended up taking Miss Perryman. He says, quote, and we get outside of Amarillo and this, it's just that it was some place to get off the highway. What I had in my own mind, you know, I had taken and thought, well, you know, I wasn't even thinking about hurting her because, you know, hurting her, you know, nothing like that. He said that I, that's what he said said i wasn't even thinking about hurting her just i just took her and pulled off the road you know how that goes so they write that it's it's perryman like we said um fuck man the perryman's husband said quote as long as there's a statute of limitations i am not going to let these people forget this case because they don't ever try them for that case right that case is just open i mean they know who did it but it's open they um he said that he's been told at this point that 15 year old evidence has been lost and so he said that they probably can't even do

anything about it now so he said quote i'm going to get them tried one way or another he's like fighting trying to get them tried this is in the late 80s or the mid 80s so it's not going to happen probably um that's just that's just sad shit and i feel bad so there's others jimmy there are others there are others um they believe that in addition to the people we've talked about there There's a young lady named Cynthia Ann Glass, 25 years old when she was kidnapped in February of 1972. Her remains were found in Washington after being shot to death with a.32 caliber. Jesus Christ, she was a Portland grocery store clerk. She was abducted on the evening of February 19th

from the Get and Go Market on Southwest Toilliger Boulevard and said that a couple walking their dog ended up discovering her body the following day off a logging road near Lake Lake Merwin. She had been raped and shot to death between the time she was abducted, obviously, and the time the body was found. From a grocery store. From a grocery store, yeah. They were unable to establish the identity. Texas authorities say that FBI ballistics tests linked the murders of the Covys, Ms. Perryman, and her as well, and Crystal Ann Glass, and other people in this. Oh, I'm sorry, no. A different weapon was used on cynthia and glass than these other murders that's that's why they haven't charged anybody yeah but there's a lot of similarities

they said that she was tied up abducted from a grocery store tied up raped shot repeatedly and abandoned near water which is the usual mo she was dressed found, but she had been raped as well. So they might have raped her somewhere else, made her put her clothes on speak. So it would look bad. And then fucking went and took her out somewhere and killed her. So either way, same M.O. Barbara Joan Mormon. More man.

She was 22. She lived in Texas, kidnapped from a grocery store in Irving, Texas. They had a suspect here. A 22-year-old Vietnam War veteran emerged as the suspect in what the paper called the sex mutilation murders over a two-year period. Jesus Christ. That's what they said in the newspaper. This is before the term serial killers was used. It didn't exist at this point yet at all.

It was multiple. Yeah. Like a sex maniac murder. That's what they would call them or mutilation crimes or whatever. Say domesticistic or shit like that. So the suspect here is a resident of suburban Irving. He was arrested by a policeman at the, uh,

after a, an automobile chase and he wrecked his car while holding a 59-year-old woman as hostage in the car with her. The officer said the chase started after he heard a woman scream as the car drove by the police station. Smart. They drove by a police station. She just screamed out the window. Help! Maybe someone in there will fucking hear me. And they did, and they came outside, and they were like, well, fuck it. Let's by a police station. She just screamed out the window. Help! Maybe someone in there will fucking hear me.

Hell yeah. And they did. And they came outside and they were like, well, fuck it. Let's go follow the car. We're all inside. We got nothing better going on. Let's see what's going on there. We'll stop by Wintel's on the way.

Yeah, why not? Give it a shot. So they did. And when they ended up reaching a wrecked vehicle, the woman told of being abducted from a tavern and driven to a desolate area near North Lake where her life was threatened. And North Lake, I guess, was a spot where Barbara Joan Mormon was found. It was right nearby.

So that's why they're trying to connect them. They said we had to look at him, the Vietnam veteran, because he was headed in that direction and because he had a knife. The knife was stained with what appeared to be blood and was also found blood on the clothing. He was linked with other crimes because of similar circumstances. And he's generally known to officers because of a positive response on a polygraph when he was questioned about a missing a missing watch of one of the victims. So they had him. They never end up convicting him.

They released this guy, and it remains a mystery. Jesus. Fuck, man. Bobby Joe Sanders, age 26, disappeared while living in Texas. Bobby Jean English. A lot of B-O-B-B-I's in Texas. Bobby Jean English was 18 while she disappeared in Texas as well. Next is Jake Green and

Mabel Manley. Jake is 69 years old. He disappeared on March 2nd 1972 from Kansas City, Missouri. He's a janitor that disappeared from a tavern where he worked in Kansas City. Mabel Manley, age 68,

disappeared in the same night from the same tavern. She was the bartender there and disappeared. So they were taken. They were last seen cleaning the tavern about 1245. Building was found unlocked in the morning with about $95 missing from the cash register. And both Manley and Green's cars were still parked outside the wooded area they end up

finding a body near it's about five miles southwest of the tavern they find both bodies there um yeah about 6 p.m two teenagers walking thank god for if there weren't teenagers no bodies would ever get found 80 of bodies are found by teenagers walking yeah because they go places other people don't want to go right through trails and woods and shit like that we gotta get away that's we gotta go smoke weed in the woods so there was the they were walking around the roadside they contacted police who began a search of the area the bodies were found between 9 30 and 10 a.m and uh they found green's body first lying in a wooded embankment which sloped westward from Blue River Road about one-fourth of a mile north of the Blue Ridge extension. They moved south a

little bit and found Mrs. Manley's body about one-eighth of a mile away. They were both face down and at a right angle to the road. Green was found on a steep slope, Mrs. Manley on a slight incline. Each had their head toward the road just below the edge of the road shoulder. So they were placed exactly in the same spot. They said the couple was killed elsewhere and dropped here. Then there's Joanna Leatherberry. She is 18 years old. Was found shot to death in 1971.

Multiple times found near the great salt lake in utah here um she was uh she was killed august i'm sorry yeah august 21st and sherry martin was august 17th both in utah within a week both raped and shot by the way uh same thing and shot, by the way. Same thing. And a witness in the Leatherberry case says that she was seen with a carload of people, which would be this family. They do say they search. They search. A search warrant gets a gun and a switchblade in connection with the investigation of Joanna Leatherberry's death. They found her nude body at 4.45 p.m. in a drainage canal near Salt Air.

So they were looking for two cars that were seen near the county complex around there at 11.30 p.m. The one is a 1959 dark green or black Chevrolet. The driver was about 25 with ear-length hair. The second is a 71 orange Dodge Char dodge charger which is a fucking hot car that's the duke that's the duke boys uh that's a charger 71 70 is a duke boys 70 chargers was it 70 or 68 i thought it was a 70 but it might be 68 either way 71s got ugly but they were still

yeah still an orange charger yeah so the driver there was young with blonde hair that's all they would say and um so they were trying to figure that out now this whole case like we said you'd think it would be everywhere it was the basis for an episode of the tv show police story in the 70s with robert with robert stack yeah oh yeah i love him robert stack like we've talked about. Yeah. The investigator said, quote, I was the technical advisor on the police story, season three, Odyssey of Death movie. Actor Robert Stack played my role in the investigation.

I think, yeah, so he coordinated with all of that. 1976. Sherman McCrary is going to write himself a book, he says. Oh, boy. Yeah. He's not allowed. He wants to write a book. The law wasn't passed yet for that.

This is well before that. He wants to write a book about his life of crimes, but says law enforcement officers expecting to find solutions to unsolved crimes aren't going to be real happy because that is going to be a thing. I will not admit to shit. He said, quote, I'm not going to be real happy because that is going to be a thing. I will not admit to shit. He said, quote, I'm not going to cop out on others or on me. I don't intend to clear up any crimes for anyone, and I won't walk them law officers while I'm here in the Colorado State Penitentiary. So he's going to write a book.

He said he wants to talk all about it and his whole life of crime. Is he just going to talk about the ones he's convicted for because yes yeah and i think also his like pre this his life of crime because i mean imagine before he was 47 when this started what the fuck led up to this 47 years of doing some bad shit we know of escaping from a work camp five years before that so i mean what the hell did he do all over the country doing weird carny shit? So the book about this comes out in 1979. It's called Death Roads. The story of the donut shop murders.

And it is it even has, as you can see, and I'll turn the monitor towards you there. My God. Oh, not for an o on the roads it's a son of a bitch it is by orville trainer joseph a uh fen chuli which i believe that's the investigator involved in this and robert n miller it uh it's impossible to find it's nowhere to be found it's written written in i don't think it was ever released in paperback so it books are released in hardcover first and if they go well they release them in paperback if not they're just out so here on the vine this died on the vine hardcover 383 pages and it is impossible

to fucking find i found one listing for like 300 and then it wasn't even there when i clicked on it so i don't know i couldn't i wasn't gonna buy it but i could find you know i was looking for it so june of 1986 carolyn the wife who is living in california and i believe not in jail at this moment she dies of cancer at this moment. So she's dead. She ain't kin to me, James. She ain't kin to me. Don't care about her none. Hard to feel sympathy for this bitch.

Yeah. It really is hard. October 13th, 1988. Sherman is in prison and he speaks with guards who make, he's in medium security now. It's the Fremont Correctional Facility. He talks to prison guards making their rounds. An hour later, they come back and he had hanged himself with an extension cord in his cell. Sherman killed himself.

He left a note and everything. Really? Yep. He said, quote, I'm just old and tired of doing time. That was it. It's just enough already. Just done and old and tired of doing time. That was it. It's just enough already. Just done and old and tired. He was serving the life sentence.

He would have been eligible for parole in 1997. Wouldn't have gotten it, but he was eligible for it in 97. He'd only been there for fucking 18 years. He said, Jesus. That's it. He's just, I'm old and tired. He's like 65, and he's just like, what the fuck am I doing here? I'm old and tired.

He's like 65 and he's just like, what the fuck am I doing here? Lou Hess, who's the superintendent of the Fremont Correctional Facility where he was housed, described him as a good inmate. He said, quote, he didn't have any disciplinary problems and had a good relationship with staff and inmates. Say it, Jimmy. What is he? He's my kind of guy. He's my kind of guy, he said.

He said that? No, he didn't say that. You said that. That's what he might as's my kind of guy. He's my kind of guy, he said. He said that? No, he didn't say that. You said that. That's what he might as well have said. Yeah. Sherry Martin's dad said, quote, I have to be glad he's dead. I don't know how else I could feel. I don't know why it took so long. That's what he said.

Why didn't he kill himself earlier? I don't blame this guy. Yeah, why did he stick around for so long? He knew he was going to be there a long time. Jesus. Yeah, he's there for life. earlier i don't blame this guy around for so long he knew he was gonna be there a long time jesus yeah 18 years 18 years crept up and he was like jesus that was only 18 fuck that felt like so much longer i can't do this plus when you're 65 and you're sleeping on a fucking prison bunk life hurts probably it's concrete is brutal yeah it's not good so john martin that's sherry's

father he likes that now there's a prison friend of his. Now this guy, he comments on a lot of stuff that he was in prison with Carl and Sherman together. Yeah. Yeah. In Colorado hates Carl thinks Carl's a scumbag, but thinks like Sherman thinks he's a good guy. Let's I'll read right from right from the thing here. Quote, but Carl was a strange one indeed. His eyes were flat and black as a shark's

and had no emotion. Even when on the rare occasion he had smiled, his eyes remained cold and lifeless. Carl married Sherman's daughter and along with Sherman's wife, the gruesome quartet roamed from state to state in a van seeking any young victim to overpower, rape, and kill.

Sherman related to me that on one occasion, Carl had stupidly abducted a nine year old girl who lived next door to them. And as the police were investigating as to her whereabouts, they hurriedly fled the city. Believe that was probably Tampa when they took off at three o'clock in the morning. And yeah, he said that Carl was just a bad guy and you could tell he was a bad guy or a sherman nobody really he said nobody talked to like either one of them everybody stayed away from them because of all this yeah they were all horrified by them yeah you know it was like oh jesus these guys are the ultimate scumbags with their wives and like and your kid what the fuck

is happening this guy what the fuck this guy was raping and killing with his grandkids in the car. Think about that. Yeah. In the car. Grandkids are out in the car. I got to make it fast. Like, un-fucking-real. So 2007, Danny McCrary, the youth of the group,

he dies in a Texas prison while serving life. Of what? He died. Don't know. Who knows? Just dead. It doesn't say. Just dead. Don't know. Who knows? Just doesn't say just dead. Never, never got a cause of death.

Now, as of 2009, uh, or I'm sorry, ginger was alive and not in prison as of, uh, 2014. If I mean,

so 2014 ginger was out of jail and alive and had changed her name and tried to just completely act like, I'm not a part of these people anymore. I'm a different person now. I don't even like donuts. I've never even been in a donut shop, you say? That's a new one. They have shops dedicated just to donuts? Wow. That's pretty novel.

Crazy. I'll have to stop by one sometime because I've never been in one so i don't blame her i mean if i was out i mean you're not going to just go well i guess i'll take my flagellation for the rest of my life and have everybody hate me you're going to try to at least form some kind of life and she does i guess now carl raymond taylor was eventually transferred from california to colorado like we said where he served with sherman he had parole hearings in 2009 2014 but carl himself refuses parole he doesn't want it he tells him i don't fucking want parole fuck you is what he says because if you were to accept parole authorities from texas california florida and washington are all waiting

for him to take him into custody and try him on shit there so he said why move and go through all that in another prison right i'm fine here i got a prison yep and carl is his doc number is four four five zero zero if you want to check up on him here next parole hearing is in june of 2018 at that point from 2014 which he refused there as well he remains there he is at this point uh about 82 years old is he he's 82 he's 82 years old taylor and he's outlived the whole fucking clan except for ginger and yeah the other one at the florence one in in colorado colorado territorial correctional facility i don't know where the hell that is but um somewhere here oh uh cats in pueblo i don't know there he is he's in there life without

parole though how about that um he's in there not coming out he's still there everybody else is dead someone else has an assumed name and there's tons of families who don't have closure and the the amount of investigating that even like web sleuths out there could do to unfind different newspaper reports and match up from all over the country trace their trail i this is one of those where i wish that we were like one of those shows that we did like just like an eight-part series on one thing because i'd love to like trace their whole map figure out what the fuck they were then the dates they were there look for in the next month or two corresponding missing people bodies found a newspaper archive and we could there's a lot to try to put this together but the fucking fbi didn't even bother they didn't

even bother like they're not even james you're looking at bodies found too yeah there could be dozens that were never found that's what i mean that's what i'm talking about too missing people i'm talking about this person was kidnapped this person's missing never popped up because the people they stay kidnapped they never take people who aren't missed they take not only are the people have families and places to go they literally have a place they're supposed to be at that moment like normally when they take you know they take you someone steals kidnaps a prostitute and kills them it's because they think no one will notice they're gone for a while it'll be at least a few days it's not like she punched a clock and and yeah it's a boss that's looking for this is a girl and supposed to be out she's got a cock at 2 30 what's going on here

she's supposed to be here she's missing her appointments it's not what's going on this is someone they take and then it'll be discovered as soon as someone else walks into the donut shop it's not like a great crime they're stupid fucking crimes they really are so i don't know it's really really dumb but there you go there's car colorado which is the place that finally caught these guys utah never ended up filing charges florida they're open everything's open it's it's crazy that's really disheartening it really is but i mean they served life that's why they were serving life but they kind of just let they let those women just go with that shit man the good news with them serving life is that you now have all the opportunity and society is safe from

them to find the other shit to close cases yeah and they have these they've pretty much said they're pretty sure pretty sure these 22 all belong to them in some way, shape or form. There's more than that. But I think if there's 22, there are how many more? There are 42. There might be 52. There's a lot.

I mean, too many. Because these are, like we said, just the ones they kidnap people in places that were obvious. What if they, what if they actually did a you know kidnap somebody from after a bar one night or something and they disappeared or like some other shit like that they're looking at robberies that netted them less than a hundred dollars yeah and how long does a hundred dollars stretch for a family of five you know what i mean so if you murder somebody get 125 that's gonna last four or five days

now it's time to murder another how long were they alive 40 something years jesus fuck man there there could be bodies everywhere yeah and a lot of these cases were like three days later they did it again because they ran out of 125 dollars exactly what it is a couple hotel rooms a couple of diner meals back then in 70 and then they were right back at it again that's what it is a couple hotel rooms a couple of diner meals back then in 70 and then they were right back at it again that's what it is gas money yeah and then they started driving grocery stores and found out oh my god we we get so much more money here we don't have to do this as much thousands and thousands yeah that was the smartest thing ever and but then they shot a cop in the head which is obviously not smart either thing ever anyway if you want everybody try to figure this out and you you could spend you could

spend months looking through this and i was i like had to run at the end and i have to record now because i couldn't stop trying to find other things to link and i really got ass deep in this shit so um yeah you can do that as well and when you're done with all that give us a review get on whatever app or platform you're using. Give us five stars or ten stars or 500 stars or whatever amount of stars corresponds to how wonderful you feel about us. In addition to that, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com today for all of your merch. There's so much good merch up there. Items you wouldn't even think that they make merch in, they make merch in.

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Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. Anybody over the five dollar level gets access to crime and sports and small town murders bonus episodes you get the whole back catalog you're going to get like four episodes a month and the crime and sports ones rarely rarely have anything to do with sports they're usually some weird criminal thing fun so much fun

our patreon episodes are worth every goddamn penny of it put it that way if I wasn't making them I I would happily pay $5. They're really good. And I'm not saying that to try to sell stuff. We really are proud of the episodes, and we want people to hear them. So they are good. This week we have Barry Bremen for the Crime and Sports episode, who is the master imposter.

He's not an athlete. He's a man who sold insurance and, like, toys. And he hated it. Needed excitement. Needed excitement. Needed excitement. So what he did is he decided to dress up in different uniforms and get himself involved in sporting events like on the field, dressed up in uniforms. He's such an interesting guy that the players even started to like him. And there was players that started helping him do this.

He was at the NBA All-Star Game on the court, dressed in a warm-up uniform, shooting around with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was all over the place. He was at the World Series. He even accepted the Best Supporting Actress Emmy Award, which is a crazy life that you need to hear to believe. I'll give it away, too. He was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader he posed as at one point. Had to lose weight and all this shit. It's crazy. Then for Small Town Murders episode, my God, is it an amazing one. Because we love doing the serial killer childhood series. And we did number two. Y'all know what they did. Yeah.

You guys know what Richard Ramirez did. You know what the Iceman Richard Kuklinski did because he killed over 100 people. But which, you know, this family's this week is a punk compared to Kuklinski when it comes to body count. So he killed over 100 people. We're going to figure out how what happened. What the hell what could have possibly happened. And with Kuklinski, you look at it and you go, well, that makes sense because his childhood was horribly harrowing. And we have for you the origins of the Iceman on Patreon this week. Listen to it in great detail. You also probably want to follow us on social media at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. That said, Jimmy, you know what I need right now? I've heard so much about murders and donuts and everything else. I need to hear the names of the most wonderful people in the world who would never leave us face down in a field in the middle of rural Colorado. Jimmy, please hit me with them now. This week's executive producers are Kristen Sweet, Nancy Weaver, John Checkley, and Jordan Bennett.

You guys are tremendous and you always come through. Thank you so much. It's really, the larger donations are, you don't have to do it and you do it. They're incredibly generous. Thank you. It makes my life. I honestly cry every week writing this shit. It's free.

It's touching, man. It really is touching. Thank you. Other producers this week are Andy Stratz. He's awaiting a new liver, James. Isn't that fucking insane? Holy shit. Yeah.

Give him a liver. Somebody. He's on the list. I understand he's getting one shortly. I don't know. Oh, good. Hang in there, Andy. You're going to get better.

Alison Riegel got an interview for the number one job she wants, I guess. Hey, look at you. She got the interview. That's not the job yet. Get that job, Alison, right? Fingers crossed, Alison. Get that job, Alison. You got that.

Other producers also, Nicole Anaclerico. I'm never going to get shit like that. I'm sorry. and a clericchio and a clerico. I'm never going to get shit like that. I'm sorry. Jess Finch, Pixie DeLeon, Liz Vasquez, Michelle Euler, Thomas Smith, Nick Ruggiero, Rabbi Shmuelovich is analfisherfree, James.

Hey. James Martyr, centanoquennels.com. They're in Canada, c-e-n-t-e-n-o, kennels.com. Samantha Hoare Quigley dances with vapes from Love After Lockup. God, that guy sucks. Very good. Kimmy and Jimmy Bray, thank you very much, both of you. Jennifer Ward, Susanna Platt,

Atessa Shakar, Grace Juntenin, BioReport extraordinaire. Thomas Brace, he's on the USS Carl Vinson, Vinson, V-I-N-S-O-N. I had a friend that was on that ship. Thank you, Thomas, for what you did.

Absolutely. Natasha Palmer can't wait to not marry her favorite grown-up. I don't know what that means, but happy anniversary. Great. She didn't even say who they are. Happy, happy. Could be anybody. Wiener Mulder.

Ashley Long. Jennifer Visconti. Heather McCarthy, Allison Davis, and Stuart Lubinsky. Topher Dizzle over on Discord. I got to get on that Discord from time to time more often. Kyle Wise, Carl Kirshner, Tiara Nestle. What is it? Corporal Carl.

It still does the umlaut. I don't know how to not do it. Tiara Nestle, happy birthday, Jordan Whore Beach. Freddie got fingled. James, he got fingled. Hey, thank you. Fingling is a thing, by the way. Wiener, and also another person named Wiener, because somebody told people to donate in

the name of Wiener, evidently, and it's working. Tiffany Gonzalez, happy birthday, Tiffany. Frank the South African Bird Washer. Janice Hill. Carly Plines. Caitlin Decor, I think. Maria Rasper. Jean-Léon Magnato.

Brian Close. Mary Elizabeth Chalifaux. Julie Bergekaker. Nope, that's not right. Happy birthday, though, Julie. Good try. Happy birthday. We're sorry about that. not right. Happy birthday, though, Julie. Good try. Happy birthday. We're sorry about that.

Alex Hopper. Dalton Thurman. Joey Hoare. Sarah Zambor. Andrew Angelli. Angel. Nick Meyer. Wyatt Hoare.

Aidan Hoare. Joshua Wilburn. Jalen Hoare. Lori Wilson. Scarlett Horbeast. Ryan Kaufman. Allison Davis. Ann Riger. Adrian Eddy. Lori Bartlett, Karen McGowan, Jeremy Thornton, Tess T. Coles.

Oh, got you. Well done. You beat me. Congratulations. It took him a second. I looked at you like, really? Really? Mackenzie Silva, Elijah's mom, Brandi Hoare, Decky McGinnis, Roy Petty, Jared Ingleworth,

Brian Corris, Patrick Muzz, Matt Ruppel, Jason and Adrian, Heather Nash, Ava Heath, Alex Boll, Jordan Doolittle, what is this, Chlo Finley? It's Chlo, right? It can't be Chloe. Christy Hayes, Jonathan Hoare, Samantha Hoare, Serial James, Serial Hoare, Kathy Schuller, Caleb M. Hoare, Diana G., Joe Borges, I think it's Joe, Logan Melville, Bonnie Campbell, Tyler Hoare, Sherry London, Melanie Swanson, Joey Jenkins, Dan Chapman, Carrie Harmon, Gabe Torres, Hunter Morris, Jason Attack, Jason Attic, A.C. Hoare, The Dude, Amanda Gendrachi, Jeremiah Johnson, P.B.O.S. 34, Heather Vogel. Justin Hardwick. J.A. Wallace. Alex C. Ambro Cornut.

Katie Jeffs. Cat Whore. Frank DGAF. I think that's Don't Give a Fuck, James. Don't Give a Fuck. Brooding Reaper. Kayla Imsand. R.J. Herzl.

Jen Bridal. Brittle. Ginger Frownfelter. Jesus. Rachel Seeger. Joe Whore. Andre Michelin. Alish A Andre Michelin, Alish Henshion, Whitney Rochalt, Casey Hoare, Alexander Patterson, Ty Adkins, Shannon Freese, Kip Stossmeister, Rachel Hoare, Melanie Hoare, Don Matthews, Danielle Hoare, Jacqueline Huff ever gets old ever ever ever laura uh clevenger tanya zamudio uh wendy brown justin jackson ashley ramos uh carrie whitcomb adam eunson uh oh boy amy bothney botany uh constantinos papas that's as fucking greek as gets, right? Greek as fuck. Isabella Zavala, Aaron Johnston, Caden Porter Foy, Jennifer Jones, Christina Williams,

Jeffrey Sweet, Shauna Bonham, Mike Perry, Vernon Rice II, Melissa Bearden, Dick Riley Hurts. Gotcha. It really hurts, James. It really does. Are you proud of yourself, Dick? Rachel Hickok, Lolo Faux Showshow, Layla Knight, Starving Aardvarks, that's a good band name, Gina Falkenstrom, Mark Goldfein, Kyle Cleary, Laura Murphy, Elizabeth Murphy, Jake Q. Parker,

Kevin Casey, Kala Juric, Jesus, Ellie Hanna, Phil Carroll, Kenneth Dustin, Dustin, yeah, that's a middle name, Stephen Smith, Nikki Matlock, and Sheil Wallen, Tim Payne, Kyle Wilcox, Xander Steinberger, Joe Christopher, SuperSharpie64, Tiffany Meldahl Johnson, Millie the Brown Bystander Clan, Shauna Tullos, clown. Clan, James, not clown. Shauna Tullios. Tullios. Shauna Tullios. Tullios. Nicole Swain. Jay.

Two of those. Jay. The Jay whore. Jay whore. Rhonda Fiandaca. Jesus. Justin Swan. Caroline Nella Adams.

Chris Seide. Amy Daniels. Salinas. Monica Emerson. Marsha Newens. Linda Bright. KDHD. Oh, boy.

Adam Ellerman. You're doing great. Matthew Story, Ashley Hoare, Connor Sandifer, Hannah Atterbury, Joseph Nelson, John Thurmond, Laura Zimmer Hansel, Angelina Hall, Ryoma, and Aluda Fathoffer. What the fuck? Elizabeth Schnitzer, Amber Hoare, Carrie Keener. I did it slow. Josh Wonders.

Yeah, that was good. I'm sure he does. Rita Welch, Barack Obama. Heard me. Crystal D'Amato, John Magnus Robertson, Katie Galloway, Johnston, John Sin, Jeremy Weathers, MK, probably Ultra, Nicole Morales, Spencer Hutchinson, Kate Hoare, Diana Hoare, Taylor Hunn, Tamara Stewart, Colton Giltner, Nikki Troppido, Taylor Bunker Jess Osborne Paul Bestow Oliver Hoare Matthew Jacobson Lisa Miller

Ian Hoare Kelsey Graves Maddie Mae Larson A.K. Hoare Matt Bogart Daniel Danny Danny Casillas Rebecca Monzon

Betty Nope, that's just Ben Ben Grundy Scott Caruso Sean Sillerman and Kieron the Hoare You guys, we can't thank you enough. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Jesus Christ, thank you so much, everybody, for what you do. Honestly, every goddamn dime, penny, nickel that you give to us is so appreciated. We can't even tell you. We just thank you. We can't thank you enough. And just thank you, thank you, thank enough and just thank you thank you thank you and we really hope you like the bonus material to make it worth it and uh we just try to give you guys

something extra that you might enjoy and any of us a life so we try to make it equal that's exactly what it is we try to go all out for you like you're not even with you that's all even stavin you know don't want to be all scared up you know what i mean so that said i think what if people wanted to talk to you and then you could thank them right there how could they get a hold of you oh you can find me on the internet and that's where james is too oh we are there are you on the internet we're there we're on the internet just search small town murder google the show it'll say our names it'll have our social media stuff you can find us and find everything else about the show that way and we thank you for it and we've had a crazy disgusting time this week and we hope you have we hope you have too so uh that said i'm gonna go take a shower quick here

and wash off the carny funk and until next and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.