Small Town Murder - #248 - The Alabama Zodiac - Jacksonville, Alabama

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

This week, in Jacksonville, Alabama, it's no longer safe for teens to get it on, at make out spots, because there is apparently a Zodiac style killer, on the loose, when multiple incidents of attacks take place. Investigators wonder whether they have a sophisticated serial killer, like the one on the west coast, but they could never have predicted what they end up finding. It all turns messy, from there, as cross country homicide interrogations, and trusting a murderer to make his way back to where he's a wanted man, at his own expense, and one of the biggest coincidences in the history of crime!! Along the way, we find out that a lot of these small town festivals have similar themes, that you can't trust murderers to self report, and that you can't unring a confession! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Jacksonville, Alabama, it's no longer safe to be a young couple getting it on at makeout spots due to the existence of a local version of the Zodiac Killer. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today we are excited as always and usual for mayhem and craziness and you know just a disturbing amount of uh of of death this week but also a fun time it's it's a hard to explain but trust me it sounds weird but believe me it's crazy before we get to that very very quickly thank you for your reviews this week. They help whatever app platform you're listening to. Those do help a lot. Patreon this week. My goodness, you want to be on Patreon this week.

This is the week to start if you're thinking about it, been on the fence. Anybody over the $5 level or $5 or above, you get access to everything that we do on Patreon, both shows, Crime and Sports and Small Town Murders bonuses, everything like that. This week is like this is a banner week for the Crime and Sports episode. We have the WBF, which is the World Bodybuilding Federation, which was an idea that Vince McMahon had that people would want to shell out money on pay-per-view television to watch men pose. And it didn't work, shockingly enough. It went out of business in about a year and a half. But we went over that and why it failed, and we watched some of one of the events,

and we did a pretty good play-by-play. And you don't even need it, because it's just Vince McMahon going, oh, yeah, look at him. Oh, yeah. It's getting hot. Over and over again. WBF stood for wrist breaking friday as vince is tugged like crazy to these grown men flexing and then for small town murders bonus episode

we have done we did it what the hell the most requested one we've gotten so far one of them we did the whole scott peterson lacey peterson you know the murder the whole debacle and everything like that and uh a lot of people think he's innocent a lot of people think he's guilty a lot of people think he's guilty but the they didn't have any evidence so there's a lot to go over we went over his whole interrogation and his story to see if that shit makes any sense at all and no matter what theory you run with uh allow james to ruin or uh certainly confirm it the pizza theory will will spin your mind fantastic the the risky business theory is definitely there listen to the episode if you've been married you get it and you'll know exactly

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at gmail.com. And you'll still get the shout out at the end of the show. There we go. Also, live shows. Shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Live the end of the show. There we go. Also, live shows. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com right now. Live shows are up and available. There are a few tickets to Brea left. This is in two weeks, so get your tickets right now.

You better hurry because that one's going to go. And then the first Seattle show, the Thursday night Seattle show. For some reason, their website's a little weird. You have to figure out what you're buying, but it's in there. Trust us. Get your tickets to that right now. It's also almost gone. Everything else is sold out. So we'll do that.

That said, disclaimer. Yeah, this is a comedy show. Everybody were comedians. And we're going to talk about the horrible murders. Obviously, that's what the show is about. But you don't have to be doesn't have to be like that. You don't know making jokes about murder. No one.

There's nothing funny about someone being dismembered that's not funny there is funny there is a lot of funny in someone going i think i can dismember this person and probably not get caught for doing it yeah that's i can clean this blood up nope that's ridiculous so it's that kind of thing we're going to talk about a bumbling police force that lets a murderer go because they're just like oh he looks fine. Things like that. This is what we're looking at here. What we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, is we do not make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. And you'd have to be. That's your deal, people. You'd have to be to do that. So with that said, I think it's time to sit back and shout,

Shut up and give me let's do this jimmy all right let's go on a trip shall we all right we're going over we're staying down south we were going to be in massachusetts this week but long story short we ended up in alabama we'll do massachusetts next week we made a left turn we made a little i made a left turn at Albuquerque. We made a left turn at Albuquerque. So, yeah, people, if anybody says, hey, you've been picking on the South a lot lately, don't worry. We did two New York episodes in there. We'll be picking on the Northeast plenty, our Thanksgiving episodes in New Jersey. And you know how I love to make fun of New Jersey.

So let's have fun here and go down to Alabama. All right. It's been a minute, and it's weird again as we'll talk about here this is jacksonville alabama just like florida but alabama it's in northeastern alabama about an hour 20 to birmingham alabama to the west about an hour 40 to atlanta to the east and then uh it's about 20 minutes to a place we know very well, Jimmy, Anniston, Alabama. I don't know why. It's not my fault that this county produces such insane murders, and that's what we keep being drawn to.

I can't help that. Well, yeah, it's the PCBs in our blood now. We keep being magnetically drawn back. I don't know. It has to be the PCB what because the murders are crazy here literally three out of four murders i find in alabama are in cal calhoun county which they say it's callan that's how they say they pronounce it there no it's cal fucking hoon i'm looking at it h-o-u-n is hoon in america or any other place in the world so brian how to pronounce cow and yeah that's how you exactly so uh yeah aniston

was our last one episode 199 in alabama so it's been a minute here uh area code 256 it's about 11 square miles this town is very different from aniston even though it's only 20 minutes away this is a college town and kind of revolves around the college. Everything here. Totally, totally kind of a different place. You know, not. Yeah, not. They're not connected or anything. There's just some woods between them. So it's not like it's one's a suburb or anything.

It's about 11 square miles. This town here. It has to be to cover, you know, big college campus. And the motto here is, quote, education, commerce, heritage. commerce heritage so that's a tough word there so that i feel like they're they're they're setting out a timeline you go to college and then you make money and then you sit back and you look back on your college days and when you made money like that's what that's what you're gonna do there i don't know how they're working that um the other motto that everyone uses here is we swear we're not Aniston.

That's the other one. Only use amongst our listeners. History of this town. Jacksonville was founded in 1833. It is land purchased from the Creek Indian chief, Do Hoag. It's his name. Do Hoag LaDiga. It was first called Drayton for the first year.

It was around. And then in 1834, they said, damn it. We have to honor the president, Andrew Jackson. And there he is again. He just keeps popping up in here.

Son of a bitch. Son of a bitch. So it served as the county seat for, as they call it, Calhoun County, which, no, it's Calhoun, until the 1900s came around when it was moved to Anniston. And we discussed that, how Anniston stole the records. It was a big thing about that on the first Anniston episode. The Jacksonville State University was founded here in 1883 and that's what the town is surrounded it's what it's it's the middle of the town it's what the town's about is this university um from what i understand like in the summer that's like a quiet dead place and then in the

fall like you can't drive down the street because there's so much traffic packed from college kids and shit here. Yeah. Things changed in the 20th century. Obviously, you need new kinds of industry when, you know, we know what happened to the industry. So, you know, they're like, we have to pay people shit. Well, we do something else then. That's literally what happened. They became from farming. They went into other areas of industry and then they started putting army

bases in the area and federal money started coming in and that changed also how this place was. Fort McClellan was here near here and the Anniston army Depot also. So new people coming in all the time, people from the outside, you know, kind of, it changes a place.

It makes it between the college and the army base. There a lot of uh younger people a lot of turnover it's not just whittling on the porch here it's not a lot of professional stuff it's uh what can you do to keep busy for now yeah it's not a lemonade commercial here is what we're saying so um yeah the uh it became big the university you know they let it become kind of the middle of the town. And an F3 tornado hit Jacksonville on March. Of course it did. It always does. And they really expect them by now because wait till you hear what the, I believe it's the dean of the school said about this whole thing.

The university's president. It's fucking hilarious. So it was almost 42 million dollars in damages to the city and university wow which is what year was this uh 2018 so this was just happened just happened the not a lot of casualties though no deaths and only four injuries uh because it was spring it was spring break during the college so everybody's gone a lot of the town was cleared out so they had they were reopening everything once they reopened it the they had they were at the football stadium and dr john biehler the university's president said and i quote it's a joyous event generally because you're

celebrating the accomplishments of all your graduates but it's an even more joyous event because it's to me a celebration of how far we've come in a short time in recovering from these tornadoes so god i mean five times a year they wipe us out we figure out how to just keep bouncing back from these tornadoes it sounds like there's like you know like monsters that live in the hills. These monster attacks, we finally figured out how to repel them. They can't come back now, so everything's going to be fine. Tornadoes happen so frequently. It's so crazy. And one big storm will generate fucking hundreds of them.

Oh, there's so many. Tornadoes are frightening. They're so scary. It's so scary. Just this little thing that's going to suck me into the sky and destroy everything in its path. And you can see one forming and then not have any clue how big that's going to get. Oh, no. That's the scary.

And then it's just going to be like an inverted lathe just tearing apart the fucking entire landscape. Everything. Oh, my God. Tearing it up. So reviews of this town. Now we've got a couple from different spectrums here. Here's five stars. This is perfect.

The town is idyllic to these people here. Five stars, quote, the small town feel and friendly people are the best, exclamation point. Couldn't imagine living anywhere else, exclamation point. The cost of living is low there's lots of restaurants and shops beautiful landscape and the university is right here as well it's very diverse family and pet friendly and people seem to genuinely care about each other

seem to wow i mean that why i guess at least they fake it you can't i was gonna say you can't ask for more than that that is the southern way anyway, I mean, even bless your heart means fuck yourself. So it's passive aggressiveness is kind of an art form down there. Bless you or bless your heart or I'll pray for you. All of them mean go fuck yourself. Bless your heart. Go fuck yourself. Whereas in New York, go fuck yourself can mean how you doing?

Nice to meet you. It's a reverse thing. That could mean you're actually being nice. That means Merry Christmas, for Christ's sake. They say go fuck yourself while they hand you a gift. Hey, go fuck yourself. You're like, thanks, pal. Good for you.

Yeah, go shove your head up your ass. All right, buddy. It's beautiful. I love the Northeast. So two stars is this person. Completely, you heard that one. Everybody's wonderful. Everything is wonderful. This person is this person that completely. You heard that one. Everybody's wonderful. Everything is wonderful.

This person is living a different experience. Two stars. People here are ignorant and abrasive. They don't seem to genuinely care about each other. Apparently to this person. Somebody told me bless your heart. Yeah. There are very few job investment and cultural opportunities.

However, the area is pretty and many of the historic sites are interesting to visit. It is beautiful around here, by the way. The pictures of like the landscape and shit. It's gorgeous. It's yeah. The hills and the tree. It's beautiful. It really is.

It's fucking beautiful. I mean, if you were a college student or retired, you know, you could sit and look at the view. That's nice. But otherwise, here's two stars. Very simple. Quote, there's nothing to do in this area. I feel like that's a college kid. There you go.

Nothing to fucking do. I can't meet. Tough call to be seen. Nothing. Can I get anything in here? Jesus Christ. So a population of this town, it's grown a lot actually in 1960 it only had about 5 000 people in it here today it has 12 972 people uh up 54 since 1990 so it's

it's grown quite a bit recently uh the is that college fairly affordable too and what is all the other ones it's a state university. So it's expensive. No, a state one's going to be cheaper than a private college. Oh, I got you. Yeah, especially if you're like an in-state student. So you're going to get that, I think. If you can't get into Alabama, then you can just go here.

I guess so. Yeah, I don't know. Auburn rejected you, and you're like, well, I guess Jacksonville State sounds nice. I don't know what Auburn you can't Auburn rejected you. And I guess Jacksonville State sounds nice. I don't know. Sure. Sounds like that Ole Miss rejection letter on my head on over here. Damn it. Them to fuck. This sucks. Clemson. God fuck you. Nothing. Damn it. All right. Fine. I'll go to Jacksonville State. All right, fine. I'll go to Jacksonville State. So population of this town, 12,972. Like I said, more females than males, which is because it's a college town. There are more women going to college than men.

So that's how that works statistically. Median age here is 26.7, as to be expected with the college, normally almost 38. The 18 to 24 demographic is super high. Just exploding. Yeah, it's like double normal, and then everything else is kind of average-ish. 85 years old and older is higher, too, here than normal. Really? Yeah, very old or very young.

That's how this town works. Maybe they're there to party. People that have forgotten everything they know. People just like, this town has changed. I know, because I've been sitting in this very chair for 83 years and it changed. I watched it. Married population, a college town, much lower. It's usually 50-50 here. It's 32 percent.

So much lower. Single with no children, though. OK, now you'd imagine all these kids, it would probably be a lower. It's only 17 percent. Is that right? It's normally 10. So I don't know if all these college kids have kids or what the fuck is going on here. That is curious. That is a strange, strange thing.

Are they married? I'm not one of the two. Either they're getting married or having kids. So race of this town, it is 71.3% white, which is a little. It's about 61 and a half in the rest of the country. It's 23.4% black, which is almost double the national average. 1.4% Asian and about 1.5% Hispanic. So it's a southern town, black and white, you know, pretty much.

And yeah, so there you go. Religion in this town in Jacksonville, Alabama. This is Alabama and they are representing 72.2% of the people here are religious. That's about as high

as we've gotten. We had Skamania a couple weeks ago that was as low as we've gotten. This is pretty high and no shock here, 42.3% are Baptist.

Baptist is fucked. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. There they are. And that's pretty much all there is. A couple of Pentecostals here and there. But point one percent Jewish, not not a whole lot of Jewish people in Alabama. The in Calhoun County politically, the it's pretty conservative. It's, you know, rural Alabama.

It's to be expected. Thirty percent voted Democrat in the last election 69 republican about 1.3 independent uh unemployment rate is low here because there's a lot of like retail jobs and stuff but the pay isn't that high because there's a lot of college kids too so it's one of those median household income is uh forty thousand dollars a year which is much much lower than the national average but you add the kids in there and it all kind of shakes out uh education enough to pay rent yeah most of the jobs it's like 40 of the jobs are either education or retail so it's either the college or stores they're not you know what i mean college or the jackson Jacksonville State merch store.

Yeah, I was going to say the bookstore. You're selling Jacksonville State sweatshirts. Pennants, yeah. Yeah, they're like, well, call ourselves the Jaguars. Maybe people won't know the difference. Maybe they'll buy it by accident. Nobody likes them either? Fuck!

God damn it. Are they the parrots? Didn't you have a racist parrot? Well, we had a coked up parrot on our Scrim and Sports a racist pair oh yeah yeah yeah from what i'm told that said racist shit at his funeral i would thought you meant something completely different but yes no you're right about that too so uh overall here cost of living 100 is regular average here it is 83.7 so okay not too low but the housing is low which i guess is good if you're a college kid median home cost here 153 300 bucks which is pretty damn low pretty that seems expensive though for a temporary house because it's yeah disappear i

guess if you live there if you're like a professor or something, the national average is 291. So it's a little over half the national average. So if that sounds irresistible to you, you can't stop, won't stop, need to be in Jacksonville. We have for you the Jacksonville, Alabama real estate report. your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 777 a month which is on par with the housing cost but i think that's good if you're a college kid that's what you're going to be doing the houses though i found they're pretty affordable i found a three-bedroom four-bath 1790 square foot house so this is house one yeah this is a big house a big house good family house there you get three bedrooms there's four bathrooms so the kids won't be all over you when you're trying to take a dump it's good stuff for everybody um it's an odd looking house it

almost looks like a like one of those like old churches but not the like steeple churches like the kind of southern like yeah the white ones with the little patio. And they have the metal roofs, you know what I mean? It's got a red roof, a red metal roof. So it kind of looks like a... It's very odd. I don't have the picture of it up here now, otherwise I'd turn it to you, but

I don't. I want to see that. It's a weird looking one. I'll show you after the show. Needs an update big time inside. It's 70s horrific in there uh 97 900 bucks though for it okay i mean affordable for a big house good bones uh i found a four bedroom three bath here a two uh 2189 square feet it's so much house it's a lot of house it really it's brick it's's all brick for tornado purposes, I assume. You won't get your house taken by the nadir.

Puff and puff, motherfucker. It's really weird inside, though. It's got, it looks like certain areas were updated and certain ones weren't. And there's like. I love weird. Yeah, it's almost like it's like a tour through time. Like, oh, this is the 70s. Oh, I like the early 90s touches here.

And then into the 2000s. It's like one of those radio stations that... I like it. Playing hits from the 80s, 90s, and today. I feel like that's what it is. It has a metal backsplash. Oh, that's cool as shit. Yeah, it's old as fuck.

No, is it? It's old. I don't know. It's just old. It's really old. Nice floors all throughout, though. Really nice wood floors. $149,750 for that, though.

That's so awesome. That's not bad for 2,200 square feet. Then I found a, let's say you're the dean of the school or whatever. You're the guy who's proud of our tornado reaction. Right. proud of our tornado reaction right i found a six bedroom four bath three uh 3307 square foot house very nice two-story all brick with the big white columns in the front yeah it's gorgeous very nice looks inside it's beautiful everything's well appointed it's like updated but classic you know what i'm saying it looks like it's's just like restored perfectly to what it was.

It's beautiful, very nice. $325,000 for this house. Wow. That's $2 million in Phoenix, I would say. At minimum. Wow, that's a nice house. It's really nice, too. It's a beautiful home.

Things to do in this wonderful little metropolis. I found the Spirit of Mountain Street. Street? Yeah, street. That's what that says. Spirit of Mountain Street. Festivities begin at 6 p.m. with music, live performances, games, and even a kid's zone, Jimmy. Oh, boy.

Guests, quote, go get yourself a kid and bring him here. Quote, guests can graze the vendor tables. I don't want to graze. I'm a human being. I'm not grazing shit. That is not okay. Sampling popular restaurant menu items in exchange for festival tokens, which are priced at $1 each. Okay, but how many do you have to exchange?

They make it sound like everything's a dollar is what it sounds like but that's not what it is now adult beverages will be available for purchase for attendees ages 21 and older admission is free all proceeds will be donated to the jacksonville christian outreach center as as the sun goes down jimmy that's when it starts to heat up though that's as they're saying here as the sun goes down artist artist Michael Ray will take the stage at 8 p.m. Jimmy, help here. Whoever the fuck he is. He's a country guy. Is he?

What's his name? Michael Ray. Oh, boy. R-A-Y. In a free public concert presented by the GSU Student Government Association, this will be the fourth year the festival's ended with a concert. Great. 2017, they had riley green then they had morgan wallen wallen um jay oh let's not brag that we had that guy

there that guy just got in huge trouble because he's screaming the n-word oh that's a concert because he's a piece of shit is what he is it's a guy that screamed the n-word over and over again and then had literally the number one on the charts country album for what was it 10 months i think or some crazy shit i don't think that's true no i it absolutely it is one every month i would see there'd be a new still number one in the country charts man saying the n-word really gets you some sales in this bar i swear on my life that is that tells me for sure if that's real then definitely real i was reading it every month he absolutely figured out uh what mainstream radio loves to play and it is trash and trash people and then scott mccreary in 2019 is that are you serious i swear have we discussed

him before no but scotty mccreary was on american idol oh there you go that's what they got now that's what they're doing that's what they're touting as their fucking headliners that's this guy uh he apparently um what is this for a lot of youtube views and all this type of shit yeah he's trash and then there's the jacksonville fall festival presented by chick-fil-a and uh this chick-fil-a hates gays morgan wallen obviously what he ate what what alabama you are not doing anything for yourself not helping yourself here help me help you uh um it is a uh let's see this whole thing here this is ten dollars to get in there's a pumpkin patch and uh try your hand at candy corn bowling what the fuck is that i have no idea that's a big very large piece of candy corn and you hurl it at something until it knocks that's mad vague what if what if they just like set up a bunch of candy corn you got a flick of marble at it maybe it's tiny bowling maybe it's

little it's on tabletop or you actually bowl and then the prize is that awful candy maybe that's no prize and now uh ten dollars to get in you get one pumpkin plus decorations for it a treat bag a photo booth with a photographer and you get games with prizes so yeah you get stuff crime rate in this town what we're into here obviously the property crime is about one third high which is normal for a college town there's a lot of usually petty shit that's that includes like pissing in the in the alley outside the bar and shit like that that's all in this type of shit all encompassing violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime on the other hand is

usually low in these towns here it's about 50 high so really i don't know what the fuck is going on that's why we do so many eps in this area you know what i mean we're always doing episodes around here it's the pcbs and they're causing violence that's all i'm gonna say it's like why are football players like you know strangling people and all that because their brains are putting that's why they've been hitting the head a lot this is the same reason here they've been drinking poison since they since birth what do you expect so uh murder we need to talk about here let's get into this let's get into the murder um or murderers i shall shall say and this is one of the weirdest confluences of weird i've ever fucking heard of in my life um

i don't even know how to describe it ahead of time it's one of those if you had to put it in a nugget it's it's unnuggetable so i just have to start out you can't boil it down to words like pink slime, James? No, it's really weird, man. It blows my mind that there's two people. Imagine you go into a bank, okay? Let's say you go into a bank wielding a shotgun. You whip it out, and as you're saying everybody on the fucking floor, you notice everybody's already laying on the fucking floor. And you look around, and you're like what the fuck and then there you see at the counter there's a guy

with a shotgun turns to you and goes occupado motherfucker take a hike what are you doing i'm busy here go and you're like oh my bad sorry i'll find a 7-eleven that's what happened here except not with banks and that'll make sense when we watch it what else would you say to a second bank robber right yeah you know freeze everybody what the fuck yeah oh my bad sorry and you know wave you give a little wave sorry about that sorry everybody got it sorry for that second disturbance i guess you just scream dibs i don't know what do you do well You give me all the money they give you then. So, yeah, this has nothing to do with bank robberies. This obviously it's slimier than that, but it's bank robberies make sense. But this is the it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life.

And somehow this isn't an extremely famous thing, even though there's essentially multiple Zodiac killers floating around doing the same shit at the same time that was happening it's crazy so january 3rd 1977 we will start out with it's been a minute it's been a minute we're going back to the 70s alabama allman brothers wafting softly as we've talked about with the other one. I got one more silver dollar. You know that's from everywhere. Everywhere. And over again. Every time you walk in a bar.

I think they replaced the bells in convenience stores doors with that too. You open it instead of rattle rattle. I'm going to be honest with you joe james that is my favorite guitar riff of all time it's a fucking great song it's so good the the guitar riff is so great that the song has 14 words and it's still on it's still a classic they repeat the same three lines over and over again for the entire song but they just go it's amazing somehow they found that's how your brain works that never gets old no it's that it's the under pressure it's that riff it's that these little riffs get stuck in your head and that's why you like songs doesn't matter what they say that's why musicians and rappers can say crazy shit in their lyrics and nobody cares and if a comedian says it it's it's the end of the world you know

yeah you can't say shit that people say in lyrics oh my god no r&b lyrics about fucking as a comedian be like oh my god is there's got to be a trail of women back there in the green room save them whereas you know at the keith sweats lyrics are certainly nuts r kelly was doing that and fucking kids and women were still like i love you r kelly here's my panties take my underwear i want to fly come back rob what the fuck take me with you rob oh so put me in a cage oh i i read a book about him and and, oh, boy, I'll have to do a bonus on him. It is good. Gross. He's gross.

So January 3, 1977, the new year has rung in here. John Travolta is disco dancing all over the place. We know what's going on here. Let's talk about Jacqueline Nance, who is a senior at Alexandria High School, and Kenneth James, who graduated the year before and is her boyfriend. And, uh, she's 18,

he's 19. They've been together described as for years, which is like, how many years can you be together? If you're 18 years old, I don't know. Yeah. The most,

I mean, did you get together in junior high and stay together? This is nuts. So, uh, anyway, um, that night, police officers are called to the scene of a park here on January 3rd. It's dark nighttime. It's kind of a makeout spot.

This is where they're sitting here. Now, police arrived to the scene after hearing reports of gunshots in the area so they report to the scene and what is this october this is january 3rd january just after the new year chile chile chile outside so they were season yeah um but this is like um a parking lot make out area you know what i mean this isn't no no this is like uh what was the one zodiac i think it was the first zodiac kill there was the couple parked out on like a mountain road out on the side. This is that sort of situation here. So first thing they notice is Jacqueline Nance about from the measurements, 33 feet from the driver's door of the car lying on the ground, not appearing lifeless. So that's the first thing they see. There's blood. There's a trail of blood leading from the car to her.

There is, you know, she is covered in blood and things have not been going well for her. Obviously, she will die later on that morning. She is not dead yet. Not dead yet. She will be taken to the emergency room where she'll die in a couple hours. She will be taken to the emergency room where she'll die in a couple hours. So, yeah. Now, the keys to the car had been broken off in the ignition.

Wow. Okay. So, the keys snapped off in the ignition, and the keys they found thrown, you know, arms distance from a car, like thrown, as far as you can throw it, basically, as far as a set of keys, 150 feet from the car or whatever shit like that why would you do that so snapped them all i mean didn't just throw the keys either then they could find snapped it off in the ignition and threw it which is really aggressive um apparently they thought obviously that was probably the killer that did that you wouldn't imagine that's an extreme length to go to keep someone from stealing your car i'm gonna i'm gonna ruin it for myself too so is it one of those cars that has like the little button you gotta press to take it out of the ignition you know what i mean maybe yeah oh and he just snapped it out maybe i who knows um now the kenneth james the boyfriend who's also been

shot uh he is able to give a fairly detailed description of the man who killed or shot killed his girlfriend and shot him but they said he's also been shot and it was nighttime so uh the police chief said quote we don't know how accurate it is the description this is exactly like the zodiacs uh one on the side of that road and then there's other ones where he would go to parks and find couples sitting on a blanket and stuff like that and we'll get into all that so this shooting was at off broadwell mill road in calhoun county and it was late night on january 2nd going into january 3rd like we said um now it's ah man it's. They were parked just off the road. Reportedly, a car pulled up behind Jacqueline's car.

She was in the driver's seat and the car pulled up behind them with its brights on. And they assumed it was possibly a police officer because police officers tend to blast out your, you know, drown you out in light when they get behind you. So they said they were kind of not like real on edge at first they were like oh shit we're gonna get caught but they didn't think oh this guy's gonna do something to us they thought it was a cop going hey you can't fuck here you know like if their kids making out they're only get out of here yeah yeah you can't do that here so they said that they couldn't figure out what age he was. It's undetermined age. They just gave a rough, you know, outline of him. He left the vehicle, walked up to Jacqueline's window, and he asked them why they were parked there, which, again, is something.

It's a police question. Yeah. And when you're a kid to any adult that comes up to you when you're a teenager, when you're doing something, any adult that comes they're automatically you know like the head of the fbi it doesn't matter who they are they're your principal your father your your you know the cop everybody to you and you're the authority figure at this moment exactly and you know you're not allowed to be like banging out in public or and shit like that or making out so you're expecting oh no we're gonna get busted so they were like you know oh they started to, oh, they started to talk. And as they started to talk, this guy just took a gun out and started blasting at him, just started shooting.

Now, this is at the driver's side window. So Jacqueline took the brunt of it because she was, you know, in the path of right there. She got struck once in the head. And, yeah, that put her down. once in the head and yeah that put her down uh now ken james was shot twice in the left shoulder once in the neck and once behind the ear oh my god yeah he got shot a lot um they couldn't tell this guy didn't remember who got shot first he just remembered a but he couldn't tell which bullets went where he just said there was a bunch of shooting quick and both of us were shot. That's all we know. Now, he managed somehow to stumble, crawl, drag himself.

And that's a lot of there's a lot of blood coming out of you. Shot behind the ear. Extra holes right now. Yeah. Yeah. For him to be able to get out of the car, even they both got out of the car and tried to struggle as the guy took off. They got out of the car. She went one way. He went the other.

She only made it 33 feet. He made it two tenths of a mile. Wow. Ken James made it two tenths of a mile shot. That's a quarter mile. That's so far. That's so fucking far. It's like a city block.

He went bleeding profusely from four holes. Yeah, that's a quarter mile. That's so far. That's so fucking far. It's like a city block. He went bleeding profusely from four holes. Yeah. That's a lot. You got to want it. He made it all the way to a trailer home owned by a Mrs. Diane Homesley. Okay. Now, according to her, she heard a knock on the door shortly after 10 o'clock.

She said she'd been watching the news and apparently kept her TVs really loud. She's an older lady and she keeps her TV on super loud, so she didn't hear any gunshots from two-tenths of a mile away. At least five or six gunshots and she didn't hear any, which is, your TV's fucking loud, lady. Yeah, that's a lot of volume. She opened the door to let him in, seeing that he was covered in blood and, you know, probably in need of attention.

Fascinating. And then she called the police shortly before 11 o'clock. And that's when the police pulled up and found Jacqueline. She was partially clothed. They called it. So they were probably making out in the car. That's what was going on. You know what I mean? It's so they were probably making out in the car that's what was going on you know what i mean it's obvious they were making out in the car as you know they're 18 and 19 years old they just don't have anywhere to go you know really unfortunate too yeah it's just yeah i mean they're they're you know they've been together

for years they could make out if they want but you know so this poor the robbery of dignity in that situation is fucked up it's really fucked up um yeah she was they made there was a huge effort to save her life she was still hanging on when they got her to the emergency room but she quickly lost life after that um yeah so she she uh ends up he ends up going to the hospital as well. And he's hurt pretty badly, as we understand. He will make a recovery. But they said they don't know how accurate his description of anything could be because he's been shot in the head. So that's different. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell.

She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more.

Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

Now, they have a suspect here later on that comes in. But right now, this is just open, open case, wide open season. They said they have, quote, no substantial leads in the shooting at all. They don't know what to do. The Alabama Bureau of Investigation Captain James Bubba Davis said, don't worry, guys. Bubba's on the case. Oh, good. Good.

As long as Bubba's finding my daughter's killer it's fine hold on i have to go to my oncologist bubba fucking feinstein as well and i'm gonna go there and we're gonna no right after he shoots the jukebox that's a country song it really is i i know he said we are checking out various leads in the case. And yeah, she, Jackie, had been a senior at Alexandria High School, and she worked at First National Bank of Jacksonville as an after school job. You know, Ken James, like we said, he was he ends up being being upgraded to fair condition the next day in the intensive care unit. He recently graduated high school and um yeah they're trying to figure out so young they're so young yeah i mean he graduated high school the year before she's graduating this year they got their whole lives ahead of them

and it's this is ridiculous man um the investigators searched the scene and trying to figure it out. What the fuck is going on here? And later on, we'll have a very similar case, like they say. And so the coroner said they had parked in the car. It was a late model compact car about 100 feet off the road in a piney woods and brush area. Make out time. Vehicle pulled up, like we said we said bright lights undetermined age shooting they said quote he walked up to the side of the car and asked them they didn't know where they weren't supposed to be parked there then he just started firing uh nance was struck once jackie

here between her temple and forehead on the left side of her face it's over that's fucked man he said the shot was fired at extremely close range possibly with the uh with the gun in contact with her head that touching her that fucking close um and then james was shot four times as we said uh they said the it was a handgun they're still trying to figure out everything all the details and the calibers and everything like that. And he said that they were just, you know, everybody is freaked out. She said the woman who was at the trailer, she said that his face was, quote, all puffed up like he'd been shot there. And one of his hands was bleeding badly. And she said, you know, he smeared blood on her door, leaning on it like he left a blood trail everywhere, which his hand probably wasn't wasn't bleeding.

It was probably dripping from his two and his shoulder. Yeah. Yeah. She is just an older lady. So they could conduct an extensive search of the woods around there. And they're really, really like that's how they found the keys. And they're really, really like that's how they found the keys because they were doing basically a comb out, you know, fan out from the car and look for anything, anything they could find. Shell casings, keys.

When they saw the keys broken off in the ignition, that's when they were like, well, maybe we'll get a fingerprint on a key if we can find these fucking keys. So they do all of that. They could not find the weapon yet, though. That's the only problem. They said, quote, we really don't know what we're looking for, but you're not going to find anything until you look. Yeah, those are. That's one of those where you just go, OK, foghorn leghorn, you got yourself a point, I guess. I don't know.

You've earned yourself a donut, Bubba. Wow. What the fuck? That's really good shit. my god man please have a cup of coffee i'm baffled also but i'm not gonna no talking to the press about it so we have a zodiac type killer on the loose here we have a dead girl we have it's that scene that one scene It's exactly like you describe, like it's described to the guy survives. The girl crawled out of the car. It's like exactly the same.

So it's it's freaky. So we fast forward six months now, seven months, actually, July 17th, 1977. So, yeah, six and a half months later. Now we're going to talk about two other young people here. Donna Madeline Tucker. Donna Tucker. She's 18. And Howard Mark Martin.

He goes by Mark, though. Mark Martin. He's 19 at the moment here. Now, Donna is a freshman at Jackson State. They're both from the area, but that's where she's going to school. She's majoring in medical technology, which is a good major. In the 70s, oh boy, that field exploded in the next. It's about to get real good for you, Donna.

Man, yeah, that's a really good field. Smart, smart girl. And from all accounts, very, very smart girl, Donna. She is not dumb at all. Her father works at the Birmingham Foundry and is also the pastor of the riverside baptist church yeah salt of the earth that's not too shabby there um now she i'm sorry that's martin is the uh baptist church uh pastor's son yeah that's uh mark martin tucker is a freshman here uh they are engaged to be married as well and uh they haven't set a date yet, but they're engaged.

All the time in the world. Fucking Jack and Diane here. That's all it is. This is Mark and Donna. It's the same shit. This is a John Coker Mellencamp song. They're engaged. No definite date, but they're ready to go here.

definite date but they're ready to go here um martin also he is going to uh he was accepted at jsu but he decided instead to attend the gadsden state college branch at pell city for his first two years because it's less expensive so he's going to go there get all his prereqs done and then go to university very go do the impressive shit very very pragmatic smart people these two you know what i mean he's gonna do that very fiscal she's like medical technology yeah they're they're i'm impressed with these two already um they graduated from springville high school in may um martin lives in riverside but he attended attended Springville with with her there. Now, Martin's family lived, but they moved to Riverside when his father became the pastor and he stayed behind and went to school there and hung out with his girlfriend. They were both active in church and school.

They're popular in school. Everybody likes them. They're well known. You know, they're all that shit. So she's a really good student uh was the salut salut salutatorian of her graduating class i don't know what that is i've heard the person says hi the most she's she will salute the greatest she's amazing i don't know what a salutatorian is there's a lot of T's in there.

Salutatorian. Tutatorian. That's what it is. Salutatorian. Salutatorian. I've never heard of that. I don't know what that is either, but she's the that of her graduating class. I guess it's pronounced salutatorian, right?

Yeah, salutatorian. I don't know what that is. I honestly don't. And she's also vice president of the student council. So doing very well. And she goes to JSU on an academic scholarship as well. She's awesome. She's bad fucking ass, this girl.

Is that better than the valedictorian? I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know. I have no idea. But I don't know. If you're a new listener, neither of us have any formal education whatsoever. Oh, education has just passed me right by. Any college anything is way over our heads. That is just not anything that was ever even thought about. So as if she's not great enough being on an academic scholarship super smart you know doing all this shit she was also miss springville last year as well

so she's brilliant and hot she's got it all this girl i mean she has figured out the best parts of life fuck it matt's or mark's a lucky dude man he's got the He's got the gem of the area here, of the whole Calhoun County. She's the fucking prize jewel. So, yeah, Miss Springville title last year. She was also a contestant in this year's Junior Miss Pageant in Mobile as well. Wow. So, yeah, and she's a drum major also and president of the Springville Springville Springville High School band and also has a big role in youth activities at the Springville United Methodist Church.

Unbelievable. That's not a real person. That sounds like that's crazy. The what? Musically talented also. Yeah, she's musically talented. Beautiful, smart. Goes to helps the kids it's for the kids she's fucking she's incredible she's smart she's got a good eye on the future with them

she's this girl is like i don't know wow that's it's incredible and then martin not too bad either he's an all saint claire he was this was saint claire county they were in. He was all St. Clair County in both football and basketball three years in high school. This is Mr. and Mrs. Alabama here. Honest to fuck, man. I don't even think they met. People just said, you two are together and you should be. And they put them together. Yeah, you two are getting married.

They came out of the machine and somebody put them together. And then they modeled the bride and groom on top of the cake after them. This is crazy. It's incredible. They couldn't be any better. Yeah. One of his or his boss here, because he works also nights pumping gas here and there to make money. Yeah.

Why not make him even more humble and amazing? Working man. Modest. Why not? Yeah. It's not amazing? Working man, modest, why not? Yeah, it's not even like this. Working man, midnight, grave shock. Pumping gas. These people couldn't be better people. Some of the best people we've had on the show ever, probably. Stunned by how great they are.

It's incredible. I'm stunned by how great they are. It's incredible. His boss said, quote, he could make more things happen on a football field or a basketball court than any little man I've ever seen. He's only like 5'10", but he's still, you know, for a basketball, it's small. So he's even the greatest pound for pound on both sports that the man's, quote, ever seen. Ever seen. Not in high school. Ever.

Outstanding point guard I've ever witnessed yeah he's gonna see mugsy bogues in a little while and go nah nope not i'll take mark any day he was being looked at by a number of small colleges for a football scholarship yeah but then he hurt his knee in his senior year and kind of the college scholarship offers kind of started to go away so he just said that's cool i'll go to this college for two years and then i'll go over to jacksonville state yeah no worries i got this uh also as if you know he's not busy enough he's also church training director for his father's church and uh also serves later on as the sunday school secretary so what a kid also oh by the way great grades and a member of several clubs

in high standing and he's literally these two are ridiculous honor society go fucking eagle scout this son of a bitch has outperformed me oh god oh boy one day of the week he outperformed my entire high school fucking academic career one day this guy blew me away until i was 30 oh yeah oh he's done more than we've still done combined yeah and he's only 19 this guy um so they had uh she's going to college there and he lives kind of a little bit away so they had she's going to college there and he lives kind of a little bit away so they really value their weekends during the week they can't really hang

out she's got school he's got work shit to do school it doesn't really work so the weekends that is that's like from the second school ends on Friday and you know whenever he's not working they are making all the time they can make for each other and then on sunday nights he will drive her back to school usually so they stay together

right up until the last minute of like a late sunday night he drives her back to school so yeah they love each other they're getting married it's good stuff so um they uh martin, his boss, this riddle guy who owns the gas station, he said that it was what they would usually do is Mark would grab would pick up some food for them after his shift on Sunday and then they would hang out. He'd pick up either some carry out chicken or some hamburgers and Aniston. Yeah. Like the most American beautiful thing on earth you know like teenagers burger and fuck that sounds great she even said he even said quote mark loves those quarter pounders who doesn't they're wonderful and uh and they would drive to germania springs park in jacksonville did you say mania germania brother i was waiting for you to

pick it up i was like i said you germania springs park pause another mania it's germania brother i'm gonna beat you i'm gonna take your title and i'm gonna sprinkle you with kraut brother it's germania brother that is not a place where i would go fuck which by the way i believe that is uh what hitler was proposing changing the name of germany was germania i believe that was the proposed nazi name for it germania sounds more exciting doesn't it germania drop the y at ia yeah man it's my it's my see it's got more snap to it is what i'm getting at a little zippier so uh to germania park germania springs park in jacksonville gross no shit they would set up it's a nice park i saw pictures of it they would set up a nice picnic

there they'd eat their food they'd talk crazy amount of germs there oh yeah so it's germania it's they're having a fucking they're having title matches there what do you expect you've heard of fighting it out to the death it's a instead of a flea circus a circus it's a syphilis circus it's very different it's a little grosser yeah so they would do that and they would talk about you know what are you going to do this week? That's what I'm going to do. And, you know, they didn't have this was their last time to see each other for the weekend. So, yeah, they would do this.

It was nearby. It's by Interstate 20 by the Interstate 20 interchange. So it's kind of near where it is. Now, that night in August or July, I'm sorry, Frank Riddle, who he owns the Riverside Golf Station that Mark Martin works at, he said that Mark was about to take off. It was about 8 o'clock. They were locking everything up. Mark was waiting for his fiancee, Donna, to pick him up. As he said, every week they would do this. He'd get done with fiance, Donna, to pick him up. As he said, every week they would do this.

He'd get done with the shift. She'd pick him up. They'd go get food. They'd sit in the park. And then that was that. And then she'd, they'd go home. So anyway,

Mr. And Mrs. Gerald Tucker had dropped Donna off at the station for like every week. And that's how they would do it. And then he would drive them out there. And so whatever, we're going to take you to the gas station, honey.

Here you go. See you next week. So they get into his car after his shift. Um, he recently bought it. He had some savings from working at the gas station. That's why he's working there to save up. He bought a car and,

the drive is about 50 minutes to Jacksonville. So it's a it's a trek. And like I said, they make it every week, but they get to talk and hang out and, you know, spend some more time together. Why not? So they get to the park. They stop. They get some food and stuff like that. They get to the park at about 10 p.m.

Okay. Germania brother, 10 p.m. They get out of the car. There's a man sitting on a park bench nearby, like on the entrance to the park. You know, there's always park benches kind of on the periphery of the park. Yep. Walks by him and, uh, says hello, you know, and they go, they lay out a blanket on the ground and they sit there and they're hanging out and, uh, you know, doing their thing. Um, they, they, uh thing. They set everything down.

They're about 20 yards away from where this guy's picnic table was, where our picnic pantry was sitting there. Now, the lights on the tennis court were on, and they were illuminating a lot of the park. In a dark area, those bright lights like that carry a long way so yeah that's you can kind of see you know things decently it's not pitch black out there so uh they're sitting there for a minute hanging out and um while they're sitting on the blanket they're approached by the man who was on the park bench and he asked them if they have a cigarette.

Very common request, especially in the 70s. You got to smoke, obviously, because they're perfect. Neither of them smoke. No, no, I missed her. And this is Mrs. Alabama. We don't. We don't. We don't. Are you kidding me?

No, no. Top top tier athletes honor society. She's the president of everything. We don't do that. So they don't smoke and they say, I'm sorry don't have a cigarette you know apologize um there and they didn't see anybody else in the area of the park at all just them and him those are the only people there that they saw so they said they didn't at this point uh he was within three or four feet of them when he asked for the cigarette he came right up to them which is weird he should you

know you can shout hey you got a cigarette from 30 feet you don't have to walk right up to people that's creepy um few minutes later he returns back again and this time he asks for a match which if someone doesn't have a cigarette i assume they probably don't have anything to light a cigarette either that's just my assumption food is already cooked i have no fires to start there's nothing to start here um again he got within about three feet of them this time again like right up on top of them uh he they said no we don't have a match i'm sorry about that um so about not even five minutes passes so this is within 10 minutes now this is the third time this guy's coming up to them now like Like, what the fuck with this guy?

Super annoying. What a fucking dipshit. So this time he approaches them. He approaches from a different direction this time, too. It's not from the bench. This time there was a small footbridge in the park, and he was approaching from there. So he did a walk around and then approached from the back instead. This guy's got a lot of talking to do he's

just bored it's like yeah get a life what are you doing so donna notices him first coming and she says you know hey what's up with this fucking guy he's coming back what's he want what can he want from what he want a piece of chicken like what is he a bite of my burger is he like fucking rolling papers now you can eat the rest of those fries like what is he doing here yeah i try your shake what's he got going on so he walked up and she said you know everybody she walked up real close to them real close got right up on them this time he has a pistol in his hand he's got a gun in his hand he orders them to stand up there they were sitting down in the blanket at this point again this is very zodiac zodiac did this with people exactly same situation give me

your keys yeah well he tells them to stand up he holds the pistol right to donna's head right up to her head and as he holds the pistol up to her head, he tells Mark Martin to take his clothes off. He says, get naked, motherfucker. It's so you won't run away, he tells him. So, yeah, get naked so you won't run away, which the embarrassment of being nude is way less than the fear of being shot. I don't give a shit. I would run away nude.

I don't fucking care. I don't give a shit. It's better than having holes in me. So he did it. Martin did it. The guy's got a gun to his fiance's head, so he takes his clothes off. Then this man orders Donna to take her clothes off as well. Oh, boy.

And she does because gun to her head. You do, yeah. He then told Martin to move away and sit down and sit down on the blanket. So Martin has to take a few steps away and sits down on the blanket. And then there is fucking poor Donna Tucker standing here naked in the park with this guy with a gun to her head. So he then tells Donna to lie down on the blanket at this moment and he puts the pistol to her head and begins basically running his hands all over her feeling her up touching her everywhere and just generally molesting this poor woman so scaring the fuck out of this woman one hand

gun to the head other hand feeling her up. She starts crying, you know, at that point, as a normal human would, and begins praying for the man, actually. Not for herself, for the man. Praise for him that he'll, you know, figure himself out here and not need to fucking feel up teenagers at gunpoint. Once she starts that, he takes the gun off of her and stops fondling her for a moment so you think maybe maybe she struck a hint of conscience in the guy or something maybe yeah maybe something maybe something clicked in his head and went oh my god what are you doing oh no it's no not even close to that he then moved over to mark martin put the gun to him his head and began fondling him as well weird he starts doing all sorts of shit to mark now as well so he both of them he's he's wanted to fucking molest them

both which is i've never have we heard of this one before no i don't think i have i've never heard of that ever it's not on this show anyway this is in any criminal case where there where there's a couple the and the guy's holding people hostage he's always there to fuck the girl or golden golden state killer tie the guy up make you know make the guy torture him by making him watch and doing shit like that no no he's on him yeah and i'm as i'm going in this case i'm like oh i see where this is going but no i never saw this left turn happening i mean it's just a bizarre you know not to want to grab a guy's cock i guess that's not bizarre but it's bizarre to do it in this context this is bizarre behavior when you put it all together so he she's fondling him uh he said that martin you know he he's right on and Martin gets a good look at him right here.

The man then takes his gun off of Mark and moves back over to Donna, puts the gun right to her head and starts fondling her a little bit more aggressively. This time starts, you know, being if we can all we can all infer what I'm saying here. He so she then screamed again because she was horrified, obviously. She screamed and he hits her. This man gives her a really, really hard slap. It's at this point that Mark Martin stands up because it's out of reflex.

He's had enough. He stands up. He's going to stand up for a fondle, whatever. Maybe this will be over. He'll rob us or something. But now this is getting. What are you doing now? You're hurting people.

You just hit my fiance after you fucking did other things to her. So he stands up. Mark does. And so does the assailant. He stands up as well. As Mark starts to walk toward the man, the man starts to back away, even though he's got a pistol in his hand. A lot of times people have pistols because they're afraid. You know, this isn't everybody.

But my grandfather had the saying. I asked him about people carrying guns when I was a kid because, you know, you see it on TV and you think it's cool. And he said two kinds of people carry guns around criminals and pussies. And that was the last I ever heard of it. I don't know. You can kinds of people carry guns around criminals and pussies and that was the last i ever heard of it i don't know you can you like to carry guns around i'm not saying it's that's true i'm just saying but you know this guy might not be the most physically imposing to begin with if he opened his opening salvos with his gun that means that's that's his point of strength is what i'm getting also in new york it's a different uh it's a different it's a different exactly people here you gotta there's animals and shit right people carry

them there for just in case something tries to eat them at night yeah yeah he was an italian guy he lived in new york his whole fucking life so it's a different thing for him so that's definitely regional and cultural as well so he um jesus christ man uh this is crazy so he's backing away it's at this but he's still there he just took a couple steps back like he wasn't on top of her anymore but he takes a couple steps back still pointing the pistol yeah this point mark mark martin this guy's ballsy man he steps between yeah donna and this man and told her that he said you're not going to put another fucking hand on her he says to her to a guy pointing a gun at him he is nude mind you he's in that situation though if you take if you do have the balls to step towards somebody holding the gun and they take a step backward you're gonna sense the weakness and you're gonna i mean probably take a charge

at him plus i think it's something of like remember in the richard ramirez thing richard ramirez shot that guy in the head and the guy kept coming at him and he fucking ran away richard's holding a pistol he shot him shot him again he still didn't go down he fucking ran away because that's what you do if you shot a guy that's my best shot i shot you with a gun twice in the head and it's not stopping you so i don't think i can beat you so i think it's one of those things of you know fuck it's just he's not a very brave man i don't think the can beat you. So I think it's one of those things of, you know, fuck. It's just he's not a very brave man. I don't think the guy doing this. So clearly, because otherwise he would have said, shut the fuck up and sit down or I'm going to fucking shoot you in the head or he would have kneecapped him or something or just shot him. So at this point, Mark steps in between them and says, I'm not going to let you do this anymore.

You're not going to fucking touch her anymore. You're not going to hit her. You're not going to touch her. So the man fires his pistol twice at martin shoots him fucking point blank drops him wow falls unconscious right there um he then turns the gun to donna and shoots her twice in the head wow unnecessary uh she shot in the back of the head and in the left shoulder she turned away from it to try to obviously protect herself um and uh martin mark uh after only a few seconds he regains consciousness mark after being shot shit he's a tough dude man and he could see from his vantage

point on the ground and blood through blood in his eyes and everything else he can see the man fleeing from the park so you can see the guy taking off he didn't rob them he didn't take anything he just wanted to just want to take it's a power it's a power thing this is all power now jacksonville police officers uh thomas fitch and alan hall they arrive at the park between 12 30 and 12 45 a.m uh now they this is just a they're doing rounds you know cops drive through the park make sure kids aren't fucking around in there that's all they're doing is rounds this isn't even no one has reported anything they're nothing they're bleeding in the park right now these two these mark is conscious bleeding he can't move also as we'll talk about he's naked

he can't move he's he's got no movement uh of his legs at this moment in time and donna is bleeding profusely here and not and she's unconscious and not responsive so and they're both nude so this is a fucking scene to walk into they see when they they walk, when they get to the park, a maroon Monte Carlo is in the parking lot with the keys in the ignition. The lights on the lights and the tennis courts automatically go out at midnight. So it's gotten dark since then. And it's all dark. They use their flashlights because there's a car there. And like, who's fucking around in the park?

You know, they figure it's people making out doing shit. they go in there and they find two from their flashlights they see the form of two nude people on the ground and they go hey yeah knock it off and then they see oh shit there's there's a lot of red in there those two wow what's going on here? They get closer. They see holes in these people. Mark is conscious, though, still. Oh, man, you'd want to pass out for that. Just God damn it. She was not conscious, Donna. The only light in the park was a mercury vapor light, which I don't know what that is.

Is that one of those bug zappers? Possible. Mercury vapor light. Mercury vapor light. I don't know what that is is that one of those bug zappers possible mercury vapor light i don't know what that is that sounds right i mean a vapor it sounds like it's something vaporized something or is it like those low i don't know what the fuck those are but either way not a lot of light is the general thing here um now the a detective arrives on the scene uh a little bit after that. I mean, quickly, they call right away. We need detectives back up, whatever you got, send it here. This isn't normal.

Um, paramedics would be nice. Paramedics. Very good. Uh, when the sheriff gets there, Donna Tucker's already in an ambulance and Mark Martin's still on the ground. So they had, they got to wait for the next one. Sorry, buddy. You're conscious.

So that's yeah. In a triage unconscious beats conscious, I guess, situation. So he said that Mark tells them that he saw the guy in the park beforehand. It's got to be the same guy. Has to be. You know, it is. And he said that he could identify him if he sees him. So I got that.

I could identify him if he sees him. So I got that. I could identify him. He describes this man as white male, 5'10", 200 pounds, so chubby, rounded face, as you'd be if you're 5'10", 200 pounds, a little bit chubby. He is reportedly wearing, what do you think he's wearing, Jimmy? A Leonard Skinner shirt. He is wearing overalls, a red shirt, and a red baseball cap. That sounds right. There you go.

That's the uniform. That is the uniform. That's the anthem. Throw your damn hands up, everybody. There it is. He is wearing murder pants. He's wearing murder pants and a red shirt and a red hat. That's a murder outfit.

Prepared for murder. I won't have to even wash this this won't show up on here excellent there's always shit all over overall all over overall so who cares so they're finally both victims are transferred to university hospital in birmingham um he they think he left there was no other. So they think he left the area on foot there. They didn't know what the fuck they send. They got dogs from the Huntsville Police Department the next day. Huntsville's a goddamn hour and a half away from here.

Got them there. They brought the dogs to the scene and went where they said Mark Martin said the guy ran away. They picked up a trail, actually actually they picked up a scent they followed it to a nearby creek and then lost it because he went through the creek as people do um they picked it up again though and then lost it again at roy webb road which is adjacent to the park so they got him coming out but then it was too too weak this the scent now uh there's a woman living in a house on the roy webb road she said that she may have heard the gunshots fired that night she said probably that she said she heard four or five shots possibly between 10 20 and 10 40 p.m those are probably them lady that's probably unless there's a lot

of gunshots going on in germania state park after hours uh she said it was right about the time the late news was going off so whenever people are watching tv that's always helpful for times you know what i mean oh johnny carson was just coming on well then it's 11 30 great we know what time is that yep um she said she heard screaming while the shots were being fired and that the screams stopped when the last shots were being fired. Gee, I don't know. Maybe call the police. What do you say?

How do you not? You heard gunshots and screaming and said, I don't know. I mean, what is this? My grandmother living here? Eh, mind my own business. I don't know. I don't get involved. You don't know what's...

No, this is... That's a bridge too far. I don't know. I don't get involved. You don't know what's... No, this is... That's a bridge too far. This is too much. Clearly, somebody's being assaulted. You go, you know, not for nothing. And I'm not trying to complain. It would be like if you got, you know, it's a little overcooked or something. You just kick it like that.

I'm not trying to complain, but maybe you want to take a swing through the park. I just heard screaming and gunfire. I'm not saying anything happened, but it might have been fireworks and screams of joy i'm not you know i don't know could have been you know i said medium rare this is closer to medium but you know what we'll move along we'll go with it how many times have we been out where i'm just like nope i'm fine i'll eat it i don't care it's not getting better than this i guess i've come to the conclusion that when it's fucked up i'm not sending it back because i'd rather eat this shitty burger than this i guess i've come to the conclusion that when it's fucked up i'm not sending it back because i'd rather eat this shitty burger than this spitty burger you know exactly

this one's fine i'll deal with it it's my it's on me i ordered this gave you an instruction it's on me that one time a few months ago we did the virtual live show we went out to dinner and i ordered something i didn't want and it came and i took a bite and i didn't like it at all and i didn't want it and she just sat there and she goes i'll take it off the meal i go no no i ordered it i knew i wasn't in the mood for it and i ordered it i'll pay for it i was like no no it's it's not the burger's fault it was mine i go honestly not your fault she walks away and you go even the fries suck they did did. They really did. The fries were terrible, which really was sad. You know, at least you could get fries. Yeah. But no.

Yeah, that burger was weird. It was all overdone and fucking strange. That's the worst. There's nothing worse than an overdone burger. Even at... Fast food chains cook their burgers all the way through. You're never going to get a pink burger from there. No.

Even those ones, when they're done way too done, it's fucking horrific. not you don't want that you don't want that so it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy

Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Anyway, she hears the screams. She said the windows to her door, which were open, windows and doors were all open because she doesn't have air conditioning. And this is July in Alabama. Oh, my God. You open those windows, buddy. I say get a window. She is living.

Grab a window unit. You know, let's all chip in on a window unit for this lady here. She said, I didn't think anything about it at the time because there's always some sort of commotion going on over there in the park. Gunshots and screaming. That's not commotion. She said, I just thought it was the firecrackers with it being so soon after the fourth and all. It was two weeks after the fourth. What are you talking about? None of that makes sense.

Do you guys celebrate? None of that makes any sense. It really doesn't. That just doesn't make sense. Does the South do that like fucking New England does? Like, New England celebrates the 4th of July for a fucking month. Two weeks before, two weeks after.

The South wasn't real into the 4th of July for a long time after. In Richmond, Virginia, I want to say after the Civil War, they stopped celebrating the 4th of July because that was the Confederate capital. And they didn't celebrate it again for over 100 years, I want to say. I think it was the 70s is the next time they had a 4th of July. That doesn't feel – yeah, like the bicentennial. Yeah, or like this late 60s, something like – it was like 100 years later until they – It doesn't sound bitter at all. Yeah. Or like this late 60s, something like it was like 100 years later until they didn't sound bitter at all. No, no, that's fine.

Not not at all better. So she said she wasn't even aware of the shooting until the police arrived to question her. And then she was like, oh, that was a shooting, I guess. Yeah, I heard some gunshots. Thanks. That could have been gunshots screaming all kind of crazy shit. Would have never paired it together. The only other resident in the immediate area who heard or saw anything suspicious is a Mrs. Marvin Byron, who is a out of town visitor. I'm sorry. We're up late waiting for her husband who works nights to, you know, he gets like second shift. So he's going to they're waiting for him to get home.

And then the visitor said she heard thought she heard a car door slam really loud. But it was that might have been the gunshots. She thought it might have been her husband. But she looked at the clock and it was only 1050 p.m. So she said that's earlier than her husband usually arrived home so she checked the window and didn't see anything and just dismissed the whole thing until the police arrived to question her um she did say however the next day when the cops came her two poodles were extremely nervous around the time the noise was heard. So nervous poodles, which she termed unusual.

She said they were usually pretty calm and they were all kind of in a titter, which dogs would hear gunshots before you would. You know what I mean? As you know, fireworks and Fourth of July, your dog will hear one two miles away and stand up and look around. She said that um uh she had let them out for a while around 9 30 the dogs and they were acting perfectly normal when they came back inside but she said quote i remember them being jumpy around the time she heard the door

slam so she said she didn't hear any shouting or screaming uh she said sounds usually carry very well throughout the area so that was you know she would have heard it probably she said noise is really boomerang through here for some reason we can usually hear everything that's going on especially on the tennis courts at night so there's that that's uh her story pretty awesome you can almost jerk off to that to the sound of tennis courts. Oh, look at that. Yeah. Like Vince McMahon watching the WBF championships. Yeah.

Ah, it's getting hot. So. Screaming love out there. It's awesome. Yeah. So the police have no leads here. They got nothing. They got who gots. They got a description of half the guys in alabama right they got a 510 slightly heavyset white guy in overalls and a hat that's

that's all of them okay that's half the guys of alabama is now a suspect that's a tough one you know it really is so they'd be like going you're in brooklyn you're like i don't know he had like dark hair kind of a big nose um i don't know. He had dark hair, kind of a big nose. I don't know. He's Italian, maybe Jewish or something. That's enough, right? You can get him on that. Had a track suit on, right?

No. That's everybody. That's everybody for fucking 400 blocks around, you idiot. Thanks. Carrying a slice. You know, same guy. You know, like a slice. He had kind of like a little bounce in his step kind of a guy. You know the guy.

Yeah, we know that. That's everybody. Had a box that said ray's pizza on it think you can get him he looked just like you as a matter of fact and you two other detective you both look exactly like that it's a similar look so i'm not making fun of the south i'm just saying we all have our own uh we have our regional man we have the regional man and that's your regional man it's this guy running from a park never gonna catch the midnight ride that's him never gonna catch me what a great song he's got one more silver dollar so uh the police are out of ideas already, and they come up with reward, maybe? Maybe reward. How about rewards? It's a last chance, I guess.

The state ponies up five grand in their way, and then $1,000 from Riddle, the gas station owner, who is Mark's boss. He puts up his own money. He puts up 20% of what the entire state put up of his own. Yeah, which shows you a lot there. And also Springville industrialist George T. Stafford, who is president of the manufacturing firm that employs Donna Tucker's father as an engineer. Her father's a smart guy, too. He also puts up $ thousand dollars as well so he

sounds like he can afford more than that if you you're like would the gas station guy put up double that i'm a photo i own a i'm i'm the president of the manufacturing firm and they describe me as an industrialist that means i have more than a thousand dollars to put up here right for a dead a dead employee's daughter, her employee's dead daughter. So Jesus Christ. Anyway, the Jacksonville police unit, they just said, quote, We want to talk to people who are in the area that night. We know there was a lot of people out there earlier playing ball and whether they saw something or whether they think they didn't we need to talk to them obviously so that was the 17th the 22nd of july donna finally succumbs to her injuries and she dies at the hospital so that's fucking sad man she had a bright future that is fucking horrible that's terrible um that really is the the cause this wasn't like somebody who was like arguing over meth or something this was like you know this is crazy

cause of death was determined to be gunshots to the fucking head obviously but more specifically damage to the central nervous system and hemorrhaging within the cranial cavity as a result of the gunshot wound which entered the right top of the head and penetrated

the right cerebral hemisphere of the brain the autopsy the right cerebral hemisphere of the brain uh the autopsy surgeon removed two bullets from her head um and then obviously they were these small caliber bullets is that is that what he's doing they have to be i think it's a i think this is a 22 this one in particular so yeah that's going to bounce around and tear everything up if you get shot in the head with brain damage and bleeding to fuck your brain up man that's brutal she'd have been well that close she wouldn't have been better off getting shot with anything that's just terrible um so there's no leads but what does a small town have in abundance jimmy rumors rumors rumors and gossip and bullshit and all that well

i heard that you know her dad had a cocaine ring with a you know and the dominicans came and shot you know not that that's a real theory but i mean people come up with crazy fucking theories immediately uh the calhoun county sheriff roy sneed said there's absolutely had to make a statement in the paper about the rumors like ignore that shit. He said there's absolutely no substance to the flurry of rumors spreading through Jacksonville that an arrest has been made in the shooting and sexual assault of the couple. He said, quote, No arrest has been made. No arrest is going to be made unless we get a heck of a lot more than we've got right now. In other words, we ain't got shit. So arrest.

Fuck. No, not even close. We got somebody so arrest fuck no not even close somebody's already started the rumor that somebody's been caught been caught and locked up and so everyone's oh they caught the guy they caught the guy and he's like no no no motherfuckers not only did we not catch him we don't have a goddamn thing so we're not even close to catching him that's very honest from a sheriff usually you don't get that honest from law enforcement like that. But they need rumor. They need information. So there was two widespread rumors circulating in Jacksonville and the surrounding hollers, I guess you could say.

One concerning a Jacksonville resident who had been rumored to be positively identified by Mark Howard. had been rumored to be positively identified by mark howard another centers on a person who is rumored to have molested a number of women and threatened their lives if they went to the police but the sheriff said no basis for any of this at all he says quote somebody's telling lies and starting rumors small town is there a guy that's running around molesting folks does that guy exist but they're saying that they're they're linking it together this is just people i heard this and then what if it's that guy and then the telephone of that goes to they caught that guy and right this is this is why we do small town murder because like you don't get that in in a big city if someone shot in atlanta and killed nobody they don't sit there with all there's all these rumors around it's just did they catch him no fuck all right that's or more

over to the point like the people that are chasing down leads on this that are in reporting and such they aren't interested in a rumor they'd rather just wait for the police to give us some information yeah no sure is here they're like well we'll solve it we could it. So let's find out what they do have. Okay. They do have this. They have a truck that was seen parked near the intersection of Nisbet Lake Road and Roy Webb Road shortly before the shooting occurred. That's what they have. Described here as a, what is this, a 1960 to 1965 model truck with a white grill and a white bumper. And they said it appeared to be hand-painted red.

That truck today is still worth $40,000. Yeah, hand-painted red. Hand-painted with some rattle can. Which sounds like the kind of car a guy in overalls and a red T-shirt and red hat would drive. Big fan of red. Big fan. He loves it. Red and white. So the Alabama colors.

That's what it is. So the vehicle is seen at about 10 p.m. by a couple who are traveling to Piedmont after attending a nearby rodeo. I'm surprised he wasn't there with his overalls. Why not? The truck reportedly is believed to be a Ford with a running board. And then they also the police also said two witnesses that heard shots and screams also said they heard a door slam and a loud vehicle through the area. Remember that those two ladies, they didn't hear the gunshots. They heard a truck slam because that car was by their house.

They said the truck was parked about a half mile from where the shooting occurred at the park quote within easy walking or running distance from the scene of the crime. Jesus Christ. So obviously they're asking for any investigation. Anybody will pay you money, anything, anything just to, if you know that truck if you've

seen anything they need anything at this point the cop said that the shirt the assailant wearing the night of the shooting quote could have been bright plaid or similar but there was red in it that's what the guy remembers the overalls they said also um could be they thought they were blue but you never know. They could be a darker color or some shit like that, like a gray. They didn't know. So they do believe, though, this old red pickup might be got to be in the area of this. It has to have something to do with it is what they're saying.

So they have Martin regained consciousness again at the hospital and started trying to help the police. He was conscious and he's with it. The police said that Martin had been shown more than 50 pictures so far of possible suspects, but none of them jog his memory at all. What a horrible thing. Yeah, he's sitting there feeling helpless. Oh, by the way, he's at this moment paralyzed. Is that right? He's paralyzed from the waist down right now, or chest down.

One of the best people in the history of the world. No movement in his legs, trying his ass off to help them find. He's got to feel helpless. He can't even walk, no less help find who killed his fiance. That's bad, man. And the incident that did this to him uh he was doing his best to protect her from that's the other thing that happened to her even that was honorable you know like it's it's fucking nuts so the police and other investigative agencies are trying to

link the crime with a number of other similar assaults in the past six months um but they're not exactly the same in one a man was assaulted and a woman raped at gunpoint by a man behind a jacksonville service station but the guy didn't sexually assault the man as well he just hit the man and then assaulted the woman that was more like get him out of the way rape her so they're like that doesn't sound like the same thing i mean dangerous and college towns is it's rape city. I mean, it's Jesus Christ. It's a bunch of fucking boozed up kids with too much testosterone. And also, too, people who are into that.

I'm not talking about date rapes, too. People who are like who are predators come to an area like this because it's transient. There's people around young people moving about late at night there's a lot of targets for people here fuck man so it's gross how people have to fuck man so in another incident a man assaulted a couple parked in a parked car at jc park in north anniston in march but there wasn't like a shooting there he like attacked them in a different way so uh they're up to thirteen thousand dollars in reward money at this moment um the sheriff roy sneed calhoun county sheriff roy sneed he said he had a talk with martin who is now paralyzed from the

neck down i'm sorry he's a paraplegic this poor man can't move. He can't move. I thought it was his chest. Oh, my God. That's horrible. He said that Martin helped him eliminate, quote, some people we didn't have eliminated as suspects. So people that thought might have, you know, whatever. He said, we're checking and rechecking all our leads and looking into some new ones. We're hoping that sooner or later we'll get a break. And obviously, he said, any information we receive will be kept in the strictest confidence. If we can get some people to talk to us and put some descriptions together, we'll be making some progress.

He said they've questioned 50 to 75 people, people who have been had connections with shootings, sex offenders that they could find or any sex offender in the area. They're asking her to get an alibi you know if you're a sex offender you pretty much always have to have you document where you are at all times because if there's a rape in the area they come knocking at your door first you weren't out here were you would you like a receipt you're fucking right i'll love receipts yeah you better i'm a terrible person i am awful but you know what i'm a monster you better give me a receipt yeah no no i diddled a girl pretty bad so you better yeah you better spend years but hold on is that a camera up there in the corner let me wave it that quick there you go just wanna is that real or one of those dummies that's not a dummy is it take a picture of me with your phone

the other bummer is like in the south where like this this is a uniform you know what i mean what he's wearing yeah if he doesn't have a very distinct face this is a problem did that brian laundry kid do you know how many people were fucking uh being pointed out and just harassed because they look exactly like that fucking because this is not a very yeah yeah it's true how many people constantly post pictures of people that say look like you? It's all the time. Like this looks like Jimmy Wiseman. I'm tagged in so much shit because of that fucking facial recognition software. It's not me.

One of you bastards commits a crime. I'll fucking find you. I will find you just to beat the shit out of you. I don't even turn you in. Yeah. With me, it's a little more. It's easier. I'm a little more i'm

in the range of height that's different like a couple of scars on my eyebrows that are distinctive so you're gonna know it's me or not coming at the benefit of this face is that i blend into any crowd that's true the drawback is that if somebody that has this face fucks up i do not blend in any longer you just have to go how many fingers did they have? How many fingers? Not 10, right? I bet it was 10, wasn't it? Oh, Christ. So they're checking all these alibis.

The sheriff said, quote, but what we've got now isn't worth two cents unless we can get these people to come out and tell us what they know, whether they think it's important or not. So they reiterate it. New rewards coming in people are putting up even more rewards now trying to jackie mason from the jerk and jackie mason from cat shack too just them just them rodney and jackie mason putting money in um the uh the industrialist who we spoke of earlier who put up a thousand dollars he said it's a horrible horrible thing this man has got to be stopped before something like this happens again he's an industrialist wealthy and i figure that's how he speaks even though he's from take my tea i must take my tea now bring the car around front like this is calhoun county you know i'm an industrialist this is how we all talk

jefferson bring my things jefferson my brandy so uh they also said that they needed to talk with anyone with knowledge of an incident that happened two months earlier in a near turley's trailer park in North Anniston as well because they think that might be connected they said apparently a man with a gun there approached a car but was spotted by an Anniston police officer the officer apparently shot into the ground or something when he saw the guy with the gun he fired off a warning shot hey pal this is christ wow excuse me sir bike what's up excuse me mr erp what are we talking about here jesus christ man but he's didn't the guy didn't shoot anybody so i mean it's not a way to get anybody to talk to you we're all running no matter we did anything or not yeah well then

the couple in the car drove away when the shooting started they didn't know what the fuck was going on people are firing shots get out of here and then the gunman away when the shooting started. They didn't know what the fuck was going on. People are firing shots. Get out of here. And then the gunman ran away, too. And so they didn't even talk to the couple. They said, we either need to talk to that couple or anyone else who was at the scene that day. He said investigators wanted to get a description of the gunman. Obviously, this whole thing is terrible.

Frank Riddle, the owner of the gas station here. He said it's just hard on him. He said, quote, this is insane. terrible frank riddle the owner of the gas station here right he said it's just hard on him he said quote this is insane he said that his son jeff he said he was watching him when he's talking to the reporter he's watching his son jeff pump somebody's gas and he said quote my oldest boy drowned near here about two years ago and that didn't affect jeff near as much as this has as far as he was concerned mark was the tops she was too they were just a fine couple christ mr riddle so young jeff is sadder about mark being paralyzed than his own brother dying

by drowning he's still alive but he's this is sadder yeah but mark was just so good my brother's a piece of shit he sucked he had no future man oh that's sad so that's i don't mean that in frank riddle i apologize so officer w e trailer i can't make that up obviously it's with a y but it's t-r-a trey l-o-r but still it's it's trailer yeah it's trailer we trailer uh so officer double wide here yeah he's an investigator with the alabama bureau of investigation It's trailer. Yeah, it's trailer. We trailer. So Officer Doublewide here. He's an investigator with the Alabama Bureau of Investigation, and he is one of the officers assigned to investigate the shooting at the park. Okay. So July 22nd.

This is the day Donna dies. Okay. Trailer here. Mr. Doublewide goes into the pick-and-pay shoe store. Yeah. Okay. About 1 p.m. Not investigating anything.

No. No. This is no police work here. He's literally there to buy a pair of shoes. He's there because he needs a cheap pair of shoes. Heading on down to pick-and-pay. Yeah. Comes across a lead.

I wonder if it's for the funeral because that's the day that she died. I wonder if he needed to get a go-kart. Get some to get some blacks yeah some pair of dress shoes or something so he goes to the pick and pay about 1 p.m to look for some shoes um the guy managing and the uh the store and selling shoes at that moment's a guy named john ellis sparks he's 22 years old johnny sparks he goes by um he'd known trailer had known sparks for a couple of years here um he had met him actually when he had investigated another crime and he had asked if he had heard anything from his wherever the fuck he lived so he had ran into him then and he knew him small place people run into each other so he's known him so he's like oh yeah hey how you doing how you doing the exchange pleasantries you know you got a 12 this and a 12 sure here we go um now trailers in the shoe store uh ellis

johnny sparks walks up to him here and starts up a conversation about the germania springs park shooting he's like you know what are you doing you investigating that uh he said yeah i am he goes oh yeah that's crazy he goes you know i was in the park that night oh boy so trailer's like pardon now puts his shoes down for a second what was that again you were you were fucking at the park that night he said yeah yeah i was there i was playing tennis with amanda dennis that night and um he said that uh you know yeah i was just playing tennis so i you know i didn't hear anything or see anything, but I was there that evening. And so the cop says, OK, well, I need to talk with you some more about that.

And, you know, the store was getting kind of busy. So he said, I'll come back some other time, like in between an off hour. And we'll maybe see if you saw anything or heard anything weird. Or, you know, like as soon as this shift ends. Yeah. No, not a real urgency here to this. He goes, I'll come back another time uh he does come back three hours later though he comes back at four o'clock he returns to the store

with another deputy deputy larry amerson and they took a photograph of uh johnny sparks just to show to mark martin you know you never know you to eliminate everybody. He's not a suspect or anything like that, but they take his photograph, and they tell him we're taking photographs of anybody who was in or around the park that night. They said, we've got 200 photographs taken here, so it's just part of the routine. He says, Sparks says that, you know, no big deal.

He tells a friend of his, I guess I'm one of 200 faces here. They took my picture for this thing, and, you know, whatever. deal. He tells a friend of his, I guess I'm one of 200 faces here. They took my picture for this thing and, you know, whatever. They brought him in. They talked to him and nothing came out of it. Just inconclusive. He said, I was playing tennis and that was it. Didn't hear anything.

I left before 1030. So maybe that's why he he did give the officers a detailed account of his night on July 17th, 77. He says he picked up Amanda Dennis at 715. They arrived at the tennis courts at 730. They left the tennis courts about 9 p.m. So well before the shooting, he said they went to Cinello's Pizza. It's a place in Jacksonville. They arrived about 915.

They left Cinello's at about 10 o'clock and he took Amanda Dennis back to her car, which was a burnt orange colored Monte Carlo. Monte Carlo. Remember that? Yeah. Remember that car? She had left her car. It's a different. She had left her car at Pritchett's Jean place in Jacksonville where they played while they played tennis.

So it wasn't in there. It wasn't there. So he then said that he left Jacksonville at about 1015 and went home 15 minutes before they even said they got to the park. So he told Detective Double Wide here that he was driving a light blue Mercury. And he said that he left the tennis courts. And he said as he left the tennis courts. And he said, as he left the tennis courts, he said, some boys were still playing.

And he said, he thought they were driving a small white car. And, uh, he also said he thought he backed. He thought that he backed into that car as he was leaving. He said, I might've hit that small white car.

As a matter of fact, there is two cars there. There's nobody fucking there. How do you hit the only other car in the parking lot how do you do that uh now they said well what were you wearing that night and he said cut off blue jeans obviously tennis attire that's what i always see the it's uh roger federer dominating for years wearing cut off blue jeans that's what you wear right cut off sweatpants i just put my cutoffs on and we played four five sets venus and serena williams are famous for their grand slams wearing cut off blue jeans

it's very famous and i didn't even bring my tennis racket i was just hitting it with a fiddle just just with a fiddle it was all right and he said an off-white shirt which i assume was white at some point it was um wash it with those jeans a couple times a couple times i got new jazz throw it all in together amanda dennis the woman he says he was with had on a pair of cut off blue jeans as well and a loose type t-shirt the jesus christ that's your official tennis yeah like i want to see a gym in Alabama. That's what I'm saying. Hoity-toity areas.

You see country club guys in the small white shorts with the white. She loads a Lululemon on the ladies. Yeah, like the guy Henry Hill beat up in Goodfellas across the street from her. Dressed like that. Not cut off blue jeans and a white t-shirt. Oh, man. I had work boots and uh you know tennis gear so those velour uh corduroy shorts from the 70s i see yeah i can see that but this shit is hilarious it's fucking crazy one interesting thing here he is in the process of a divorce and as a matter of fact his divorce was in the final days that week and his divorce was final on july 22nd which is the

same day donna died so they had signed paperwork everything was final so within uh within a couple weeks of this doesn't check out this guy's story right away because it's just a throwaway story so then within a couple weeks he tries to uh you know tries to check the story out so he talks to ms amanda dennis who is a school teacher uh she said she met uh johnny sparks on on the friday uh before the shooting happened on a sunday night she met him that friday they met in a restaurant in anniston they talked for about 45 minutes to an hour. He called her Saturday morning and again on Sunday around 1 or 1.30. When he first called her Sunday, he mentioned going out Sunday night. She told him she wasn't sure whether she would be at home and to call her later in the day.

So she told him she was going to play tennis, but she was unable to find a partner and went to her mother's house instead. That's what she says. So she wanted to play tennis. No. So apparently Johnny Sparks called Mrs. Called Dennis's apartment number a bunch of times, called the phone that a bunch of times, approximately judging by the phone records every 20 minutes. Wow. that time a bunch of times approximately judging by the phone records every 20 minutes wow he spoke to mrs linda mccullough uh ms linda mccullough who is the roommate it's amanda's roommate

he also called amanda dennis's mother's home at about 8 30 take it easy you met me 40 hours ago this is mad strong sir this is this is crazy my divorce is going through i'm nuts type of shit here i need to get something under me uh but he didn't get to talk to her when she returned to her apartment about 10 50 sunday night the phone was currently ringing at that moment she answered the call and recognized his voice as it being you know know, Johnny Sparks. They talked for about 30 minutes. He must be a good bullshitter, though. He's got to be a good conversationalist. Or he's just one of those people that just bullies you into a conversation

and they won't fucking shut up. But at some point she'd be like, anyway, like, you know, at some point. My uncle used to be famous for that. We'd be leaving his house and we'd be in the car and he'd be leaning at the window window well anyway you're you're backing up the gravel sounds under the tires and he's just walking alongside the car he hops on the hood as you're pulling out hey one more thing wait don't take that left so fast oh fuck what the shit man so uh she said that she talked to him for about 30 minutes his voice seemed calm she said though that she did not in fact play

tennis with him nor was she with him sunday night so oh why would you say you're there and then make up this whole thing about this whole story that you didn't have you could have just sold him some shoes like yeah this is that thing. They have to insert themselves. They have to find out. It's that thing that is one of those guys. So, James, it's getting divorced and just needs to need some excitement in his life. This could be phony, too.

Well, that's what I mean. We'll have to find out. So Terry Powell, who is a another pick and pay worker here, she said that she worked the pick and pay shoe store with him on July 18th, which is the day after the shooting. She had a conversation with him at the store. He told her that he was at Germania Springs the night before, quote, where those people were shot.

He said that he was playing tennis with a married woman, and he didn't tell her the name of the woman. As far as I know, Amanda Dennis isn't married either either so he's just a liar he just lies to everybody uh now norma barton who's a pick and pay customer she says that she knew johnny sparks at the pick and pay store where he was employed she was a customer how often are you going to the pick and pay jesus christ um he called her her almost daily the three weeks after she met him. What a weird guy. So he calls people just constantly.

This was before the shooting at Germania Park. He asked her to go out with him, but she never went on a date with him. Now, the week after the shooting, she called him or he called her on the phone and she said she recognized his voice and knew it was him and everything he brought up the subject of the shooting again and stated to her that he quote didn't go any place anymore because he was a for it was afraid the police would pick him up and they had questioned him about the tennis courts so she told him uh he told her that he had been playing tennis that night with some of the some of his friends, which is another lie. She told him, apparently, if you didn't do it, you don't have anything to worry about.

So what do you care? And he said, but you never can tell. That's what he said. Then later on in the same conversation, he said, quote, you're lucky you didn't go out with me. And she said, why is that? And he said, well, because they came out and questioned me and I'm an alleged sex murderer now. So no one wants to go out with an alleged sex murderer, right? That's not good.

That is a fascinating owning of a title. I'm an alleged sex murderer now. So there's that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to put it out on my mailbox in case anybody don't want my stuff getting mixed up with anybody else's sex murderer right here so jesus christ i'm a sex murderer i suppose so obviously his story didn't check out no clearly um august 3rdrd, I'll double-wide there, talked to Johnny Sparks on the phone and told him that his story didn't check out.

This is not normal homicide investigation to talk to a potential suspect on the phone. We was talking. Your story ain't working out. You want to look into their eyes and see how they react. Hey there, Johnny. Can you just clear some things up because your story doesn't make sense and we got it we're just trying to eliminate you can you help us eliminate how many over the phone confessions are there you know what i mean we watch the confessions

interrogations on like youtube and shit no it never happens they just have a speaker i think i'll say this this will get him and then he goes oh all right i did it that never happened before they don't pick up the phone and go, I didn't check out. You're right. You got me. Yeah, you got it. But Double Wide said that he wasn't was, quote, not all that much of a suspect at the moment. How?

I don't know. He said he was there and lied about everything else. So who knows? We just could be looking for attention. Like you said, he said that he talked to just as Double Wide talked to talked to Johnny Sparks in person 25 or 30 times. Wow. 25 or 30. That's not how you, again, not how you investigate.

You want to load everything up for one big shot. You know what I mean? You don't. Once a guy's been in there. I had 25, 30 questions. Just figured I'd give him a break in between them yes pretty heavy questions like do you murder people well you get everything beforehand then you bring them in and lay it all on them and they just you don't do that you just don't they always

say i understand james when you say to somebody i think you're a sex murderer you should give them a break to process that you gotta they need a minute but they always say if you don't if you think you guys a suspect and you've talked to him twice that's it already you blew it they're not confessing now because if you've had them in there twice and they walked out twice and they know they killed somebody and yet they sat in a police station were asked questions about it and allowed to leave twice they They're not afraid of you anymore. They're not going to confess. They're not scared of the situation.

They think they control it now. So doing this is making him think he's a genius and they're morons. Yeah, that's what it is. So he he also said that he talked to him on the telephone at least three times. You know, those telephone homicide interrogations. You know, those telephone homicide interrogations. He said that he told him on the phone he needed to clear some things up and he needed to see him to do that. They agreed to meet at 8 o'clock that night, okay, on August 3rd. Double wide quote couldn't keep his appointment that night.

He's busy. Got other shit going on. You know, the wife has some shit. Again. This week's going to be busy. I i'm not gonna get laid this week so the other thing you ask you tomorrow jesus christ wow the other thing that is like the number one rule of when they bring people in to interrogate them is that i'm just i'm blown away by this is that you want them to think that the full the entire breadth of law enforcement is doing nothing but working this case. It's going to crack.

It's going to fall. There's lab guys and there's we have people that have been retired for 10 years that are coming in working for free just to crack the case. Like that. You want to look at these tire impressions? Yes. I'm going to get this guy. Remember Russell Williams, the colonel and the Canadian Air Force colonel guy with the interrogation? It was a Sunday, and he told them, there's 70 guys out there working on this right now.

There wasn't 70 guys on a Sunday working on this right now, but he had to make them think, this is all we do 24 hours a day. There's a shift in here doing nothing but fucking working on this case. Because it makes them think they know they're fucked then and serious so he couldn't make it that day matter of fact he postpones it what do you think a day two days weeks catch up with the over the weekend two entire weeks 14 days 14 days he delays this fucking meeting well you know thursday my kids got softball maybe friday oh it's the anniversary let's uh let's tell you what we'll circle back give you a little rest holler back around uh two weeks no shit i feel like if mark martin knew about this he would have fucking risen from his

bed and ran over and punched this guy in the mouth, paralyzed or not. Are you fucking stupid? Talk to him. So that date comes along. They make, oh, that was the 17th. I'll talk to you. That date, he double wide goes, and he can't find him now. Now he can't find him. He goes to the store, and he's told that he's been transferred to another store in Lynette, Alabama. So he turns up there, and he's looking for him. Then he hears that he's not working there now.

And he's also got another job at a Big K department store in Lynette. And I guess he'd been managing the pick and pay for a while there. And then he ended up going to this Big K. And he didn't show up there either. So he's not there. He's in the wind at this point never gonna catch the midnight rider he's on the fucking run they call it in the twister he's in the wind so uh and in in uh in italian we call it on the lamb. So there you go. He's on the lamb or in a twister. He was staying at the time, staying in a motel in Lanet.

So the double wide went to his motel room. He's gone. He left not only without most of his belongings, but also without paying his bill. He just left his shit and ran. Never going to catch the midnight ride everything he does every move so it's at this point he goes back to the office and he receives double wide does a telephone call from who stop this not him oh not johnny sparks johnny sparks dad calls him okay to tell him that my boy's missing i can't find him will you help me find my boy

this is like mr laundry no problem where do you think he might be hiding yeah wow um this is fucking crazy so yeah tells him that he's missing. So then double wides like, I know that's stupid. I've been looking for him. He goes back to the state trooper station in Oxford. So where the fuck did he go? Where is he? No. Well, that same day, trailer's at the office going, well, this son of a bitch gave me the slip. His dad might be in on it. What the hell's going on? 3.30 p.m. the phone rings. You know who it is? It's Johnny Sparks.

It's him on the line. I now don't have a single silver dollar. No, I spent it on this call because it's a long distance. Because where is he? Utah. Utah. He's where everybody is and they are missing on a bus headed through utah wow he took a bus to utah he's got one more silver dollars so it takes a bus to utah that shit on loop on the system just that guitar just the riff 2 000 miles and he nodded his head for 2 000 miles

yeah bopping that shit so he's riding a bus towards salt lake city when he makes the call here uh the call is originally originated from heber city utah 45 miles east of salt lake city he says and i quote this is johnny sparks i'm the one y'all want for that shooting in the springs in jacksonville okay so this is double wides on the phone like i know what are we being formal now i've talked to you 50 times and we have a date that you blew he says quote wait johnny you have the right to remain silent you don't have to have to answer any questions at all you're entitled to an attorney. They're doing an over the phone, 2000 mile away homicide fucking interrogation.

No, no. What the fuck? I'm trying to adhere to the Constitution and I also don't want to exhaust you. So, yeah, this is this is fucking crazy. He's over the phone. Wait, hold on. I got to read you your rights. Oh, wait a second. There's a troop of Girl Scouts coming. They're very loud. I got to hold on He's over the phone. Wait, hold on. I got to read you your rights. Wait a second.

There's a troop of Girl Scouts coming. They're very loud. I got to hold on. I'm in and over the phone. So Johnny Spark says, yes, I know all of that, but I got to get this off my chest, he says. So he then goes on to say, I'm the one who shot those people in the park. It was me. He said, I didn't mean to shoot those people in the park.

And I don't know what the fuck else you shot right fire off six rounds you emptied your fucking gun what are you talking about you clearly it was intentional he said and that the whole thing was about to drive him crazy and he had to get it off his chest so um double wide told him that hey your parents are worried about you you know you just took off and uh he's then this is this is unbelievable fucking police work here yeah he says listen they're all worried about you he says you want to just come back on your own or you want us to come get you yeah he just admitted to murder you're gonna let him fucking come back on yeah i'll be there in a few days. What are you talking about? Go there.

Are you fucking... What? I can't even speak right now. My mind is blown. You want to come back on your own? We'll just wait for you. You get on a bus. We'll see you in four or five days. What are you, fucking nuts?

I've never heard of this before. This is... No. Jesus. Call the pick him up. What are you doing? He just admitted to it. He's not even a suspect. He's a fucking admitted to it.

So he said that he said, will you call my parents and tell him I'm OK? First of all. And then he says, also, don't tell him I was involved in the shooting. I'll leave that part out. He's like, just tell him I'm OK. Don't tell him i was involved in the shooting though leave that part out he's like just tell him i'm okay don't tell him i told you none of that then he says i don't have enough money to return on my own he said so could you could you pick me up maybe out here i'm stuck i got one more silver dollar i'm gonna let him catch the midnight rider i'm gonna have to i'm gonna have to i mean I'm going to have to.

I mean, I'm asking them, can you come pick up the Midnight Rider? The Midnight Rider's stranded at the Greyhound. The Midnight Rider. I'm going to change my name to the Greyhound Rider and allow you to come stop me. I'm going to say, sitting in the Greyhound station. Fucking terrible. I'm never going to catch the Greyhound rider. So, here he is. The Greyhound rider.

He says, Jesus Christ. So, Trailer asks him, double wide. I'm calling him double wide. He's lost all my respect at this point. He's an idiot. He's an idiot. He asked if he would like for him to call the police. Would you like me to call the police there and see if they'll come pick you up and give you a place to stay till I can come grab you?

You know, like arrest you and put you in a fucking jail because you just admitted to homicide what the fuck are we doing here this is the most casual thing ever how can you get back i don't know i'll hitchhike yeah no problem we'll see you when you get here um so he said that he's in a bus station and the phone number is 532-8825 and that he said he'll stay there while double wide checked with the Salt Lake City cops and see if they want to do a pickup for him here and put him up in a five-star hotel, I assume. So he keeps talking, does sparks, and he states that he tried to give, he said, I tried to give you a hint when we talked in the shoe store. So Double Wide said, yes, I figured that because of the three pages uh that you told me

about which was the referencing his interview pages that he was particular ones he said you told me about two of them are lies and he's because he made up a whole story and he said uh spark said yes i figured you would get the hint that I was lying, and I figured you'd catch me eventually here. So Double Wide called Salt Lake City Police and arranged to pick him up as he had requested. So Salt Lake City Police officers are dispatched to the bus station to look for him. An Alabama suspect is what they're told. Obviously, overalls and red hat is what you're looking for here. Overalls or cutoffs. One of the two.

Could be cutoffs. It's August. So when, and he asked to be picked up. Remember this, okay? So when Sparks sees the officers outside the building, he freaks out, runs downstairs into the bus station's basement where there's a pizza place down there. Yeah. He's downstairs into the bus station's basement where there's a pizza place down there. Yeah.

Pulls a knife out and holds it to one of the employee's throats and holds him hostage. Holy shit, man. Yeah. Harold Hullsight is this poor guy making pizza or selling pizza. Next thing you know, he's got a knife to his throat and he's going, don't fucking move. I'll cut his head off and shit. He's screaming at everybody that'll kill this guy. And he's like, what the fuck?

We thought you needed a ride, man. Yeah. I don't think he he was gonna come back on his own what do you think jesus christ so he holds him hostage for 30 minutes at knife point knife to his throat uh he said that you know jesus christ um that's fucking nuts this was at the the Der Ratskeller Pizza Shop, where he is a cook, Harold Holstoy. It's called the Rat Cellar? Der Ratskeller. Skeller. S-K. That is the Rat Cellar in German or some shit. It's under a fucking basement.

It's under a bus station. Go down there and get pizza. Yeah. Sounds delicious. Anything in the basement of a bus station is not going to be edible. You shouldn't it don't eat the meat because it's wrapped in the name of it no good uh this guy who was taking a knife point he said this man just come in came in with a knife he was scared and confused and said he didn't want to go back he said he didn't want to kill anyone anymore which is scary while someone has a knife to your neck i don't want to kill anymore you've

killed before he said i talked to him and tried to cool him down uh he said that the man ended up sparks ended up forcing holstoy up the stairs and tried to like leave the building with him at knife point he was going to try to get away uh but then he saw the policeman and he went back down. At that point, Sparks screams, everybody out, to the six employees and customers that are there. Everybody out, quote, I've got a hostage. Yeah. This is a problem. This is ridiculous. So he tells the police shortly afterwards,'s gonna say sparks told uh he said that

afterwards holstoy said that he told him that he had talked to the police and that he wanted an unarmed policeman to take holstoy's place he said leave your gun and if you want me to let him go that's fine but i gotta hold a knife to one of your throats then which they generally don't do a quick like knife hostage exchange like you slip out i'll slip in that's not the normal usual here so uh he said that the cops said no we're not doing that and they had their guns on him so then at that point he just gave up yeah that's all so holstoy said i don't know whether it was me or whether he was just scared maybe i talked him down or whatever uh holstoy holstoy said that sparks told told him quote okay we'll take our chances if they shoot me i'm taking you with me again not what you want

to hear um so then they got to the top of the stairs again saying they're going to leave. And that's when he just gave up. He released a whole story and said, quote, I want to give up, which could mean he doesn't want to give up and he could turn around and run at any moment with this guy. You never know. So much. What the fuck? Yeah. So he finally threw down the knife and the police pinned him against the wall.

No other weapons or anything like that. Um, yeah. So he then said later on, I grabbed the person and pulled him around between me and the police officer who came about halfway down the stairs. He denied that he had a knife at the time when they first questioned him. And then later on, he goes, OK, I had a knife. Why else would you not just bum rush me and tackle me? You mean the cops saw it and they're going to testify to that? Yeah, I had one.

Yeah, I had a knife, I guess, since everyone saw it, even including the people that I yelled to get out because I have a hostage. Right. He also he he was it was testified later that he said, quote, everybody out or else I'm going to hurt this guy. And then he was saying to Holstein whole site, quote, I don't want to hurt anybody. I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody anymore. He kept saying that over and over again here. And, uh, yeah.

So he's sitting in Utah jail. Uh, they put them in an isolated cell and they keep them under 24 hour surveillance. And, um, they said that, you know, they're going to give him a high,

but right now he's just being held for like $50,000 on kidnapping charges. So, um, now reactions, friends of him and his dad are so surprised they can't believe it they can't believe it his dad said one neighbor visited the sparks home and just broke down he said he was crying saying he couldn't believe it he couldn't even talk about it he broke down he just couldn't believe it as as quoted in the paper. So all this, by the way, Mark Martin's in rehab at this point still for months of October

70, 70, still in rehab, still in the hospital. Trying to figure out how to live a life now. Yep. He said about the place he's in here. He said that what's the name of the place here? I can't find it either way. He said that this place has taught me a lot. It's unbelievable what they do here to help you improve, to help you feel better about yourself. the place here. I can't find it either way. He said that this place has taught me a lot.

It's unbelievable what they do here to help you improve, to help you feel better about yourself. He said they work hard here. He said, I've had some return of feeling in my arms and I've been working in occupational therapy, trying to take advantage of that. That's terrific. That's awesome. He does therapy two hours each morning, two hours each afternoon. They work on the principle that as long as the patient's being helped, he stays. So they keep him there. He said the doctors are on the level here. You can count on what they tell you to be the truth. They're not going to tell you anything just to make you feel better.

They tell you what they think. So at this point also, he's learning how to operate his new electric wheelchair, which was $2,700 in 1977, which is a lot of fucking... That's what a car costs then. That's a lot. It's designed specifically for Mark so he can operate it by turning his head in different directions. Jesus. That's all he can do. He said he's anxious to

master the wheelchair. He said, quote, I'm planning on going to school next fall. Most of the school buildings here have ramps and are equipped for wheelchairs, so I think I can do it. It's going to be so fun. Dude, this kid's amazing. I'd be like, I'm going to be sitting in my basement fucking hoping for, you know, I don't know. I've learned to operate a pencil with my teeth because I'm the greatest human being on Earth somehow.

Fuck. He said the doctors think it's good that I want to go to school. They said they see no reason why I can't continue to improve. He said that he says he wants to go into coaching now since he can't play sports. He said, something I've always wanted to do. When I was in high school,

there was a teacher, Bill Tucker, who was the captain of the Auburn football team in the late 40s. After he got out of college, he was stricken with polio, but he kept going and taught coach taught and coached from a wheelchair i always admired him and i guess i would have to say he's been my main inspiration as far as me as far as helping me to realize that i can do it too this fucking guy is amazing uh i wish i had half that his family is building a new house that's

designed with him in mind that has ramps and rails and special furniture and everything like that. Wow. His reverend, this is his dad, he said that Mark coming home is going to be a big step for him. He's shielded and protected here, but going home is going to be a terrific test of his character. It will be very easy for him to get down and depressed. But Mark is a strong boy, and he always has been. He's never been sick, never complained, never been in trouble.

And somehow he's going to whip this. I know he will because he wants it so badly. And then Mark goes on to say how wonderful people have been to him. He said, I'm not looking for any sympathy. I'm just thankful that anybody cares. And he also said his medical expenses

are pushing 100,000 bucks at this point, which is like $2 million. Yeah, it's millions. He said that once it's all done, though, they told him it'll be probably three times that is what his medical bills will be. He said, but that's not the important thing. We have insurance, and I honestly don't know how it stands right now. But his father says we still have Mark, and he's strong. So you'll hear from Mark someday.

And they asked him, are you bitter? My answer would be, yes, motherfucker. What do you think? As fucking tea. As sugar-free tea. He said, you just put these things out of your mind. Not when you look around here and see people a lot worse off than I am, with more problems than I might have. You just can't feel sorry for yourself.

Holy shit. He doesn't go home till november 14th he finally goes home six months that's crazy five months five months um yeah so anyway back to officer double wide and fucking dipshit sparks here officers double wide and kirby went to ut Utah on the 19th to pick him up. They talked to his lawyer, who's been assigned to him, Mr. Van Sciver, over the telephone that morning at 8.30 a.m. And he was arraigned, and he and the lawyer met with the Alabama officers at about 10.30 a.m. The lawyer told the Alabama officers that they could not talk to his client he's not speaking um like i said he's arraigned then on a fugitive warrant from alabama he'd previously been arraigned on the utah charge so um he said that uh the lawyer described his appearance this is sparks his appearance as noticeably shaky and as if he was shivering he was sweating

he asked me to reassure him that the judge would not hurt him. He kept saying that he was hearing things and seeing things. Yes. So that's not normal, obviously. He they the lawyer asked him to be committed to a state hospital for observation to see if he's, you know, sane and ready to stand trial. And they do that. Absolutely. He also meets with the officers, double wide and Kirby at the jail after the arraignment.

The lawyer does not permit them to question him again. The officers asked some general and questions, including one that the lawyer felt was too far into things and culpatory. that the lawyer felt was too far into things and culpatory possibly. The Mr. Van Skyver, who's the lawyer was afraid the Alabama officers would talk to him sparks when he wasn't available. So with the jail Sergeant as a witness, he calls the jail Sergeant over and in the presence of his client,

the officers and the jail Sergeant, the lawyer tells the officers not to add, not to to ask him any questions if I'm not here. Okay. Shortly thereafter, he then again told them not to do that in his absence. So anyway, that's how that goes. Seven o'clock that night, the Alabama officers go back to the jail and have a lengthy meeting with Sparks without his lawyer. They completely fucking ignore it, which the lawyer has no no right the guy can waive anything that he wants

so if he wants to talk he can talk the lawyer saying don't talk to him without me has no legal standing yeah but because he can waive that if he wants that's that's him he can waive his rights at any time gotta get that shit written down though that's the thing he needed to have something like that so either way they can still ask him questions all he has to go is talk to my lawyer and that's the end of the fucking day so uh but he doesn't they talk to him uh they tell him uh he tells them that he called trailer that day and said that he shot the people in the park because he couldn't stand the thought of coming back to alabama so uh there he said he called the Salt Lake City police as well because he said that he wanted them to kill him.

That was the point of the hostage. He wanted them to shoot him. They weren't shooting him. Yeah, they weren't shooting him. So he's like, fuck, what do I have to do here? Then he's like, if I kill the guy, they're definitely not going to shoot me. Then they're going to just bum rush me

or they might shoot me, but I might not die. So he didn't know what to do. So he also told the officers about his apprehension by the police at the restaurant. He's talked about other activities the night of the shooting, but he did not say that he shot the couple this night. He signed a waiver of rights, and then he went back to Alabama. The statements that were most, they were incriminating, obviously, but they were taken in violation of the instructions of the lawyer in Utah. He said the lawyer said that after this guy waived his extradition and went back to Alabama, he said that was the end of my representation of him. Goes back there, spends 30 days in a hospital to determine. Yeah, to be evaluated.

October 7, 77, the trailer and Kirby, double-widened Kirby, they end up, like I said, taking him back to finally back home to Alabama here. They advised him of his Miranda rights and warnings before leaving Salt Lake City and each successive morning during the return trip by the way still under you know still have the right to remain silent today good morning let me read you your rights uh he said he stood it understood his rights he said not only that he started to get pissy and he said I understand my rights since at least 1974 he says matter of fact I probably known him since junior high is what he says so um during the trip he intermediate intermittently discusses the shooting and shit like that october 8th 1977 he made the following statement uh this is what trailer

says quote johnny told us that he couldn't believe that we hadn't found the pistol he asked if the crime carried the death penalty and we told him that we weren't sure of that status. And he said he was interested in keeping his rear end out of the electric chair. I asked him why he did it, and he said, I don't know. I was there. They were there. The opportunity was available. I just did it.

He said, I may never know why I did it. I was drinking and taking drugs, you know, just having fun. Annoying women. He's a terrible man. You know, bothering people. He said that he made another statement on October 10th after being advised of his rights, and he said that he would, quote, not be in this trouble if it had not if it had not been for that high class bitch in Jacksonville that he went up there to see. So he found a way to blame a woman on this.

Blame this on a woman somehow. I don't know how they held a lineup in on October 27th in the hospital room of the Spain Rehabilitation Clinic in Birmingham, where Mark Martin is recuperating. He and four sparks and four other white males are placed in a room with a one way mirror. And they said without the slightest hesitation, as soon as Martin saw him, he said, that's the guy right there. Wow. Boom. Done.

That's my man. I know him. So the lineup, though, he was not represented by counsel at this lineup. Usually that their lawyers there too for lineups the officers say that they tried to call his lawyer prior to the lineup but couldn't get a hold of them so they just held the lineup they said that they told him that um we can't find your lawyer and maybe you want to hold off on this till your lawyer's here and he says quote this is sparks quote let's go ahead and get this

over with i'm smarter than any damn lawyer anyway let's just get it over with i'm smarter than any damn lawyer anyway i work at the pick and pay i manage a pick and pay january 10th 1978 remember the shooting the first shooting nance and ken uh yeah well uh either his name in court documents it's sometimes donald in other documents it's douglas so i don't know what the fuck one it is in the paper they have it back and forth somehow it got mixed up at some point either douglas or donald i think it's douglas eugene bushy is his name b-u-s-h-e-y he confesses to the january shooting okay the original one we talked about and the one in germania springs park oh no you can't do this he confessed to it too what why is he doing this um

they weren't aware there was different things so he's arrested january 12th after he confesses obviously he confessed to that but then he later recants that confession he says i did shoot the people on the side of the road but i didn't shoot the people in the park they were just trying to make me say i shot the people in the park so i said fuck it i already admitted to killing one person might as well say i just shot the people in the park but that actually didn't happen okay so he recants that at that same time old johnny spark says well i didn't do it neither if we can if he can recant i can't he does it in a different way sparks maintains his innocence by writing letters two letters and a poem to a reporter for the Aniston Star. That's his fucking.

In that rag. Wow, that is fucking wild, man. So his lawyer, though, sees Bushy's confession as his way out. He says his lawyer, Sparks' lawyer, says only through an extensive investigation were we able to locate and discover the existence of that confession. All I know is at this time that it exists. what it says what it contains i couldn't tell you he said but he's gonna have he wants it to be studied and figure this the fuck out what's going on here so in court the murder trials of the two men bushy and sparks are on the same day in the same court in separate courtrooms they're trying

this is fucking bonkers uh they started this is gonna get crazier the the twist hasn't come yet okay this is what i mean your head's gonna fucking explode they're both at the court blah blah blah that doesn't matter bushy is charged with murdering jackie nance and shooting ken james obviously now um uh sparks his lawyer he says during his opening statement that he intended to prove that it was Douglas Eugene Bushy, not Sparks, who shot these people. He even admitted to it at one point. Bushy ends up pleading guilty to his case of killing Jackie Nance.

He pleads guilty. His wife, Dorothy, gets subpoenaed as well to come out for this one, which is very weird now they get the there's a hearing it's a lengthy hearing has a lot of it's a long one too with this whole transcript and shit

like that again he says that he's understood his this is where he says he's understood all his rights and I've understood them all as early as junior high that's what he tells says in court he's understood all his rights and I've understood them all as early as junior high. That's what he tells us in court. He's bragging now. So they bring in his incriminating statements from Utah and all of his shit. But they don't allow double wides testimony of statements during the three day trip from Utah to Alabama.

They say one Miran dicing in the morning isn't enough for an all-day thing you have to like every once in a while you have to refresh it i don't know what the time is but um whatever so he also smart he had said that he was taking drugs and drinking whiskey at the time and that he just did it and uh later on he said um i'm sorry trailer says he never said he didn't do it he never denied involvement in the case ever. Even when he first talked to him at the shoe store, he was saying he was there. They talk about how he had an alibi that was complete bullshit. The courtroom falls silent when Mark Martin wheels himself in there using his head.

Yeah. He makes a positive in court identification of him. That's the doesn't point to him. But that's the guy there with to him but he that's the guy there with his fucking nose he uh it's a big deal it's a very dramatic thing in court here um he said that he had seen him three times over a 20 minute period from very close distance and then he said close enough to where he was fondling me and you know sexually assaulting me so trust me i got a good look at him here um he said he told of arriving at the park he said we were just talking general at the first then he asked me for

a cigarette or a light and he said that you know it all happened from there he got shot he came over he said that he held it to her he told her to lay down fondled her and he said then he came over and did the same thing to me he said quote donna screamed and he slapped her with his open hand i stood up and then he stood up and started backing away i told him he was gonna have to leave or shoot us and that's when he shot me he said all right well there you go wish i didn't get those two options yeah so you're either gonna get the fuck out of here or shoot me one of the two two, because I'm not going to let you by again. And, I mean, you've got to draw your line in the sand. That's what he did. He does do that.

He identifies him in court. And the testimony shows that the light from the tennis court was bright and sufficient for him to see the sparks clearly. And his identification was a good identification. Now the rebuttal comes along. and Douglas or Donald Eugene Bushy here. The lawyers ask Martin, are you sure it wasn't Bushy? Are you sure it was this guy, not Bushy? On rebuttal, Mark Martin testified that he did not see Donald Bushy at the park that evening and has never seen him.

So the defense calls Donaldald bushy as an adverse witness as a hostile witness okay you know what he testifies to what he was there that night also he heard the shots had his gun there and was there for the same fucking purpose he was they were both there there was two predators in the park the same fucking purpose. They were both there. There was two predators in the park the same night with guns looking to fucking shoot kids making out on a blanket. Wow.

But he heard the shots and was like, I better take off considering I'm standing here with a fucking gun. Yeah. He was there. Occupado, motherfucker.

That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm saying. That's the bank robbery. You're like, I'm going to go shoot those kids. I'm going to grab that guy's dick, too. That's what I'm saying. That's the bank robbery. You're like, oh man, I'm gonna go shoot those kids. I'm gonna, I'm gonna grab that guy's dick too.

That's going to be perfect. Pop, pop, pop. Oh shit. Somebody beat me to it. Are you kidding me? That's crazy.

They don't know each other. Bushy and fucking sparks. They've never met each other. They don't know each other. But Bushy does this. This is his thing too. This is his thing. He did it in January. This is his thing that he does.

He had a Zodiac thing going on. He shot the kids in the car he's doing this and someone else is like no i'm the zodiac fuck you and a lot of this probably is from the coverage of the zodiac this is like the same type of crimes not to mention this happened the week his divorce was going through smart his divorce number they died so it makes a lot of sense he's calling he's calling multiple women 10 times a day he's going to shoot and fondle people. He's just, his head exploded. It's fucking crazy. The rejection of his wife triggered all of this shit.

It had to have. So, I mean, I'm sure he had it in there to begin with. Right, right, right. So he says that he did own a.22 caliber pistol and he had it with him in the car that night. So they're like, well, then you did it. And he's like, no, I heard the shots and he did it and mark martin says nope never saw that guy before in my life so it doesn't really work it was coming one way or another for mark that's crazy one way or another they were getting they were getting it that night it was just they were

fucked he said he was wearing no hat on his head that night either uh which was identified by martin as a hat he said he was sitting in his car and heard approximately four shots he said he saw two people on the ground and saw a man running and they said did you notify the police and he was like no why the fuck would i do that i was there to do the same thing somebody beat me to it i'm not gonna yeah snitch on him and before this he had prior jail terms for indecent exposure. So he started out as a flasher and then worked his way up to this type of shit. He had also pleaded guilty to murder, rape and assault with intent to murder. In the other case there, when he crawled away, he raped the girl. By the way, he raped the he raped the girl as she was dying in the fucking.

Yeah, it's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Bushy said that when he saw the man running from the park he had on overalls and he was a big heavy set guy and was quote clumping along fat guy run yep bushy's wife testified on the night of the shooting her husband came home at approximately 11 10 p.m he had on a light blue shirt and dark green pants his clothes were wet and muddy and he unloaded his gun and had five empty shells in it she said that night he filed the barrel with a chainsaw file put on his cap a bright orange bib cap in the garage and he said that they took their she said they took their niece to the hospital and while they were there

an ambulance arrived with the shooting victims and she said that her husband did not come into the hospital until after the ambulance left. So she's saying he seems pretty guilty. On cross-examination, she also admitted she's aware there's a $10,000 reward for the apprehension and conviction of this one. So they're saying you're trying to get the reward. Your husband's in jail anyway. Might as well do that. So they bring a psychiatrist in from the Alabama. This is a real thing.

We've talked about it before. The Alabama Lunacy Commission, which I feel like we need that all over the place. I will head the lunacy. Jimmy, will you co-chair the Lunacy Commission with me? I will vice-pres this shit. And we can just have sanity, please. Just sanity abounds.

This guy said that he testified he evaluated him for two months. He diagnosed him as possessing a hysterical personality characterized by excitability, emotional instability, and self-dramatization. No shit. He was given a hypothetical version of the events of the shooting and stated such conduct would be inconsistent with this man's personality, though. So he said he couldn't have done that. He said that he's not psychotic or schizophrenic, but Sparks does have a personality disorder.

He said that hysterical personalities could confess to a crime they didn't commit. Would they call to confess from 2,000 miles away? He wasn't sitting there getting the screws turned on him with a hot light on him and a dude in his face going, tell us you did it. He was on a bus 2,000 miles away. They were like, do you want to come back on your own? They'd have never found him. Couldn't have been less pressure on this guy.

Jesus Christ. So anyway, there's that. They said, quote, It's the opinion of the Lunacy Commission that Mr. Sparks exhibits no evidence of mental disorder, which would affect his criminal responsibility either now or at the time of the alleged offense. He can communicate. He can do all that shit. Verdict comes in. Yeah. He is found guilty of murder.

Obviously, the bushy thing didn't throw him off. He is sentenced to you, sir. May fuck off 30 years in prison. He gets for that, which seems like he could have got more. Honestly, seems gentle. Yeah. He's lucky. Didn't take anything if

he stole anything from him then he'd be going to the fucking chair probably so now he appeals he says that his constitutional rights were violated when he was placed in a lineup absent his counsel and they said well you waived your right there there's no constitutional right to counsel at a pre-indictment lineup that's not the thing so they said that's a you could have had your counsel there and you said you didn't want the counsel there matter of fact you said i'm smarter than any damn lawyer anyway quote let's get this over with so you're a fucking moron that shows what a dumb shit you are um he said that he was denied he was not they said that he wasn't denied the right to counsel. And if he intelligently and understandably rejected the offer of counsel so he can fuck off, he his testimony contradicts the police officers as well.

He on the first day said he didn't wish to discuss the incident and that he wished to see his attorney. And he testified that he again asked to see an attorney on the third day of the return to return trip. And according to him, they discussed a guilty plea to murder in the second degree, allowing him. Thus, that would allow him to continue his education at a later date. So he's like, I said I didn't want to talk and they still made me talk and all this type of shit. The appeals court said, tough shit, affirmed, fuck off, go put your overalls on, you fat shit. So he's sent away to prison for 30 years. The only positive that came out of this is a radio station was honored.

What? The next year. For what? What? The next year. For what? WDNG, honored by the United Press International Broadcasters Association of Alabama for the best extended newscast in the state. One award for continuing spot news honored the coverage of the shooting of Mark Martin and Donna Tucker. So they covered the whole case and they did a good job. Okay.

They're both in prison. We don't really hear from Sparks anymore. Like he's just kind of disappears. Just fine. Service time. That's it. The other one, he's in the paper more bushy. He tries to escape at one point.

Oh, my God. And him and another prisoner trying to file suit to talk about the jail conditions and one of the the suit says that the says the food is unfit for human consumption there's not enough of it he the sheriff wanted you to buy his cakes and candy off the store to increase his profits which is true they all do that sheriff joe did that for fucking ever in line his pockets um bushy wrote i was never fed enough food and most of the time i stayed hungry because i did not have the money to buy candy and cakes from the sheriff's store no one in the jail was allowed to have a newspaper or radio i guess so he wouldn't know what was going on outside the jail i was never allowed outside the jail cell for the purpose of exercising. He also tried to escape at one point, too, which is a problem.

Yeah, that'll keep you inside. But they bring up, they had been put, they tried to escape because they had been put in what is called the doghouse. This is a punishment. Is it an actual doghouse? It's not a doghouse. It's a six by 12 foot cell that they put you in with about eight other people. Okay. And cram you in there.

Can't do that. No. The suit said that I saw the sheriff upstairs one time the whole time I was there and he didn't want to hear our complaints. Some of the guys flushed sheets down the toilet to get him to come up and listen. He agreed to trade one jelly sandwich for one meat and one with meat inside bologna that was the big thing a bologna sandwich so they were having jelly sandwiches and they wanted bologna yes so that was what that was what the agreement was we'll take the sheet out of the toilet if you give us bologna prison grade bologna yeah so that

everybody wow is it i don't know what happened to bushy he went to jail and he's an idiot and his wife divorced him yeah um this is fucking insane sparks i meant bushy and sparks both of them they both got divorced and both got in jail so two separate zodiac killers in the same small alabama town work in the same park that night this is fucking insane what. What is, the PCBs are real, everybody. What the fuck is happening down there? This shit is not normal. Being that it's a small place, you probably, I mean, if there are two people that are willing

to do that at the same time. Only so many parks. They're probably going to end up in the same park. Only so many parks, man. This is crazy, though. In fucking San Francisco in 1975, they didn't have two Zodiac killers wandering around. There wasn't two Sons of Sam in fucking san francisco in 1975 they didn't have two zodiac killers wandering around there wasn't two sons of sam in fucking new york you know in the bronx and

shit this was there's one they have two here and no one even knows about this shit that's the craziest tale if you like that story tell the world about it get on whatever app you're using there and give us a review give us five stars and tell the world that you like the damn show it helps us out a lot helps drive us up the charts so do that it really does help head over to shut up and give me murder.com immediately for your tickets to live shows so many live shows a lot of them are sold it's happening a lot of them are sold out so you want to get your tickets now even if you're like i want to go to one next year well they've been on they were bought a year and a half ago by other people so there's limited tickets i think the only ones with tickets available right now of for this year

for 2021 is brea improv in two weeks and then of course uh the first seattle show that thursday show there's a few left there so get those right now and a half yeah and then like january it's nashville nashville austin oklahoma city sold out sold out sold out so all sold out so it's a lot gone there i know that florida also they put their tickets on sale late and so those florida tickets are available don't make us come the fuck to florida for nothing i swear to christ sell that shit out i will never set foot in that fucking place again also if you if you're in, if you've got those tickets and you can't make it to the show, put them in one of the Facebook groups or

put them on Twitter. People will buy them from you. They will. Fine. Social media. People will do that quickly, especially these sold-out shows. There's a lot of people asking all the time, where can I get tickets for Oklahoma City? You know, what can we do? So get those right now. Patreon.com slash Crime

and Sports. This week is awesome. Anybody over the $5 level or $5 or above gets access to everything we do, obviously. Both shows, Patreon episodes, they come out every other week. We put out two, so you're going to get four of them a month. This week's are especially amazing.

We have, first of all, the World Bodybuilding federation where vince mcmahon the owner and chairman of wwe thought it was a good idea in the early 90s to make posing a pay-per-view event and tried to get people to pay money to watch bodybuilding and the ways he tried to make it exciting and everything else it is hysterical he thought we were all turned on by the same thing oh man the same thing he is we talked about it we watched a piece of it and did some commentary along with it you really need to see that even if you don't care about we don't

care about bodybuilding but it's hilarious it's like if porn uh was just uh foot fucking that's it and that's it ah look at that yeah that's vince mcmahon and then for small town murders we did one of our most requested we've ever had here and that is the scott peterson case and a lot of people still they're arguing in there no he's guilty no he's not guilty he didn't do it he was framed but he was guilty but they didn't have enough evidence there's so many things and everybody kind of it's a weird thing no one gets angry at someone for having a different opinion about scott peterson is that the only thing where that's the case it's it three people with three different opinions could talk and they all walk away going i know yeah

totally all we all have a point and then they walk away like there's no i've never seen there's no passion for it it's the weirdest thing it's strange they're passionate but they're not like mad at someone for having a different opinion because they're like that makes just as much sense i guess from their side, too. Exactly. So why don't you see from our side and listen to the pizza theory, the risky business premise, and we'll see if it's correct. And we'll see if you agree with us about Scott Peterson.

That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And of course, you're going to get a shout out, which is coming up in just a second here. And if you just want the shout out and to have wonderful karma and just be a fucking great person you can do that as well uh paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com that's a good way to get a hold of us as well other ways would be at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram right that said jimmy i need to be pummeled with the list of people who would never on Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram. Right. That said, Jimmy, I need to be pummeled with the list of people who would never,

ever fondle us at gunpoint. Jimmy hit me with that list. This week's executive producers are Ashton Martell. Happy birthday, by the way, Ashton, Haley Howard. Yeah.

And then also Jordan Bennett again, every week. She's thank you, Jordan. You're the best. You're in Simon. There's such nice people and good Simon. They're such nice people. Good stuff. They're going to come to live shows

they think as long as Kanata figures it out. I'm excited to see them. That's all. Definitely. Other producers are Heather Vogel. She likes my pup is what she said. Emma Louise Smith and Jones had a birthday. Oh, it's her anniversary. Happy birthday. Happy anniversary

Emma. Happy birthday to your wedding. Happy anniversary. And Stephanie Jones, Lauren Sullivan, Shelly Roberts had a birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Montana Cavane, I think, broke up with somebody. Congratulations. We're helping Montana through it, so be choosy.

You're going to be better. Craig Ventura, Mary Greats, Ashley Powell, Dylan Harrison. Happy birthday, Dylan. Happy birthday. Ashley Long from Peru, Steve Schnell, Alex Pressler had a birthday. Happy birthday. Blue Gill and Justin love you, evidently. Baron Miguel Cicluna and the Isle of Malta, James.

Yeah, that's the wrestler from an old wrestler. Dylan, no, Douglas. Douglas C. Niedermeyer, Sergeant of Arms. I think that's Animal House, yes? That is Animal House. Yes, it is. Dalton Durbin, Alice Mullen, Happy Hour in Boca Chica, Texas. That's his

CB handle. So if you're out there looking for Happy Hour, he's out there. Dances with Vapes, Shitty Blue tuxedo charles ingalls uh james martyr corporal carl kirschner's daughter got a cheer up bitch shirt and she's jacked about it uh alexander costell lindsey adams shauna lawrence mandy with no last name uh gabriel get gabriel last name, Kelsey Holbert, Megan no last name. Kelsey Holbert. Megan, no last name. Jessica Olski. Olski. Olski, James. Olski.

Olski. Maria Wetercare. Oh, boy. Ashley Ranch. Jennifer Faisal. Ashley with no last name. Jenna Ferguson. Nicholas Gordon.

Maura Pinter. Daylon, no last name. Uncut Varl. Whatever that is. Tanji, no last name, James Walsh, Daphne Bergenal, Alex Perez, Alexa Sage, The Swamp Dweller, Lisa Harris, Shane, no last name, Alex Sommerfeldt, Darren Wilson, Laura Cartwright, Bruce McQuarrie, Laura Cartwright, Bruce McQuarrie, Sue Sharp, Thomas McEachie, Vicky Curtis, what is this, Franziska, Goatz, Cody Watson, Tess Garcia, Mary Rump, Rio with no last name, Kelsey Harper, Jason Garcia, Teresa Krebs,

Keanu Coffey, Sarah Range, yes, Daniel Curtin, Samantha Olson, Dan O, no, that's Keith Minty. Calvin Simmons. Shelly Anderson. Heidi Lundquist. Merle's Girl. I hope so. What is this?

Levy Ander. Levander. Levander Bradshaw, I think. Maddie. Oh, boy. To Jackie. To Leckie. Kevin Gatto.

Natalie Rondel. Rondelay. It's been a tough day today. This is brutal. Tanyell with no last name. Renee Howerton. I'm having a tough day today. This is brutal. Tanya with no last name. Renee Howerton. I hope that's Glenn's daughter. You've given up like four runs through three and a third here.

This isn't going well. My ERA is fucked. Brittany Hillsbury. Cassie Kitching. Marcus Cheroum. Derek with no last name. Mike Oxlong. Brandon Boesler.

Boiser. Oh, boy. Brittany Midori. Oh, Boiser Boiser Tyler Story Fabian Ange Al with no last name he's the best obviously right you're the best Al Miranda Woodall Trout Mask Eric Everett Pamela Finger Peter Stenland Stenland Michelle Bollinger Frankie Lewis nope that's Franklin Franklin Lewis Jr., Shane Peckham, Rebecca Kennedy, Zoe Worley, Cynthia McPherson, no, yes, Austin Atterbury, Thomas Rose, Don Sherman, Claire Raywood, Gibson Ben in the U.S. Army, The Midnight Train Podcast, Ty Oliver, S.H. Smolnick, Rachel D., Michael Billingsley, Chad Bennett, Parker Thompson, Samantha Quigley. She donates both ways. Thank you, Samantha.

Thank you. Ivy with no last name, Meredith McDonald, Laverne Hoover, Tanya McDowell, Ricky Shreve, Sydney Davies, Valika, Courtney, Zoe Ann Wilson, Can't Knock the Hustle. Hell yeah. Kara Guaitia. That's what Jay-Z says. I don't know. Guitar, James. That the Hustle. Hell yeah. Kara Guaitia. Guitar. Guitar, James. That's what that word is. Hey.

Aaron Hurley. I've seen that word. Heather Costas, Reagan Da Silva, Kimberly Wagner, Oliver Stroud, William Scott Cleary, Admiral Janeway, Jacob Jolly, Austin Lee, Emily Day, Jugs and Dogs, Brittany Bree Kim, Julia We're Below, Brett Nelson, Jennifer with no last name, Emily Pearson, William Streeter, Justin Autry, Catherine Brooks, Georgia Johansson, Ashley Rowland, Olivia Kaiser, Keith with no last name, Tina Caggiano. Caggiano, probably.

Kimberly, oh, boy. Sivananthan. Tough night. The pitching coach just came out and talked to you. Somebody's tapping the left arm. Yeah, I'll keep an eye on him. Sander Westerberg, Penny Squadrino. Adam Funk, Chris Owens, Erica and Mary Birch, Crazy Rollerson, Maria Radford, Maria Rye, Amy Walsh, Heather McCarthy, Nick Reed, what? McKay, Adam Philp, Aaron Webb, Kristen Simmons, R Bobo, Autumn with no last name, Dean Jackson,

John Marshall, Megan Stacy, Scott Gassot, Cecil DeCuey, Deboy, Deboy, Dubay. And Cody with no last name and obviously all of our patrons. You guys are incredible. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything you've done for us this week and every other week honestly thank you we just can't thank you enough we're so fucking appreciative of you and everything that you do for us it means the world to us on a both a financial and just a personal

level of making us feel good you've done you've done it all so thank you for doing that for us jimmy what if they wanted to get a hold of you how could they possibly find you you can remind me that uh you give a shit at westman sucks on instagram and twitter what about you uh you can find me at jimmy p is funny or just copy and paste my name because it's long and you'll spell it wrong also if you just want to find us both you can do that easily just google the show small town murder host there's one show called small town murder people tried to copy it in many different ways but they can't quite get just small town murder so if you small town murder podcast we're the only fucking host to that as much as people will try to take pieces off of it in chunks and fucking copy off us forever god God damn it. Not to complain, but we're one of the most

bitten off of fucking shows out there. I'm sorry, but we are. We see it all the fucking time in terms of different ways, and we don't even care. You know what? That's flattery. Fuck all you people.

Thank you for including us in this unbelievable, oversaturated market, and we can't thank you enough for making it something for us. That's what I mean. And when I say fuck those people, I mean those people, not our listeners. The Steelers.

So thank you. Follow us on social media. Find us out there. Keep coming back. Keep coming back. Because we will. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.