Small Town Murder - #251 - The Nightmare House - Fair Lawn, New Jersey

Episode Date: November 25, 2021

This week, in Fair Lawn, New Jersey, was it a random & vicious attack, or a family Thanksgiving, turned bloodbath? A woman found, in her own kitchen, bludgeoned & stabbed, with two knives still protruding from her back, and her family's story just isn't quite adding up. In addition, it comes out that this isn't the first time something so horrific has happened in this very house. Another act of violence, committed by the dead woman's husband. In the end, fingers are pointed, and no one wants to take responsibility, but will this woman get any justice? Along the way, we find out that judges think pregnant women can't leave the house, that some family holidays are worse than others, and that some houses may just be cursed!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Fairlawn, New Jersey, a brutal tragedy occurs and it's either a random act or Thanksgiving dinner gone very wrong, but things get even weirder when everyone realizes that this house has a history

of this exact same thing. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Jimmy yay indeed my name is James Petrogallo I'm here with my co-host I am Jimmy Wissman thank you folks so much for joining us once again on another

crazy insane edition of small town murder and it is if you're listening when it comes out it's Thanksgiving it is happy Thanksgiving if you're not listening from the US this happy Thursday it means nothing or happy Friday if you're in some parts of the world so

either way thank you for joining us. Crazy episode today. Happens. It's got a little Thanksgiving theme to it as well. And it's one of those episodes where you keep peeling the onion and it gets weirder and weirder and weirder. So I'm very excited. Quickly, before we get into that, thank you for your reviews this week. They help a lot.

If you haven't done it yet, please give five stars on whatever app you're listening on. I don't know what the hell you're listening on. People listen on a multitude of things. They do help a lot. They help drive us up the charts. So thank you. Head to shutupandgivememurder.com right now. Get your tickets for the tour. We've been having a blast

on the road. Did Tempe last weekend. Two shows there. That was a lot of fun. We have Brooklyn coming up. I think there's a couple of tickets left in Brooklyn, right? Is there? I think maybe. It's possible. There's none left in Boston.

That's been sold out. And Seattle, the first show, the Thursday show. I think there's some tickets. A couple might have opened up for the Friday show. I'm not sure. Get those right now. Shut up and give me murder.com. We are very excited to be out there.

Patreon this week is so good. Oh, it's so good. Patreon.com slash crime and sports as usual. Anybody $5 or above, you get access to the whole everything that we got for you. Basically, anything that we put out both shows, Patreon episodes, crime and sports and small town murder. This week's episodes of which you'll get both. Once again, crime and sports. We're going this week's episodes of which you'll get both once again crime and sports we're going to talk about weird sports superstitions this is going to just be a

fun comedy show of making fun of people's weird weird things that they do before games and all sorts of there it goes back since you know the the greeks and the olympics people have had weird superstitions so this is going to go back hundreds of years and it's going to be a lot of fun. We'll get into that. And for small town murder, something way less fun, but way weirder. We're going to talk about the NXIVM cult. Yes. Yes.

Where and I've done untold research on this. I've been researching this for months to do a bonus episode like a moron. So this will be a lot of fun. NXIVM is where Jim Jones meets LuLaRoe, essentially, is what it is. It's where a cult meets multilevel marketing in some weird Scientology hither-hinter world. It's so strange. So check it out. Can't wait to tell you all about it.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you'll get a shout out, of course. Oh, yes, of course, because we appreciate everything that you do. So, Jimmy, we'll mispronounce your name to show our appreciation. And you just want to make a donation and get that shout out. You can do that at PayPal using our email address. Crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, it's disclaimer time it is gotta have a disclaimer this is a comedy show it's a comedy show we're comedians we're gonna make jokes also death will happen yes most of the time it's pretty horrific too but

the thing is there's a way to navigate around that and still have it be hilarious that is the one part that's not funny is the actual murder we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims families why because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags that's how that works there's plenty to make fun of around a murder how about stupid murderers trying to get away with murder that's interesting how about if some police force lets some murderer go free for years because they overlook some that's interesting how about if uh some police force lets some murderer go free for years because they overlook some that's pretty funny we can make fun of idiots like that like we had in the last couple weeks as a matter of fact so plenty to make fun of either way i think it's

going to be a good time if you think that true crime and comedy should never go together maybe you won't like it but you might but either way don't complain about it later instead sit back clear the lungs yeah and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy put this turkey leg in your mouth let's go on a trip shall we all right let's go we're coming we've been in we were in west virginia last week of course celebrating celebrating World Dingus Day, obviously. If you didn't listen to last week, man, you missed, first of all, a really horrific murder, an absolutely horrible, just when people get together, it's a real weird mob mentality that people get. Even when it's only three or more, you can just get a weird mob mentality, and it's really creepy. But the characters involved

in this story were like a coen brothers movie like they were ridiculous the dingus is it was like raising arizona this whole thing what the hell is happening here it was insane so check that out this week gonna go all the way back to the northeast oh boy like a lot of people go back to the northeast for thanksgiving yeah know, the airports are all packed. Everybody's flying from wherever they've moved back to their parents' houses. Sure. We're going to go there, too. We're going to Fairlawn, New Jersey.

Oh. Oh, sounds lovely, doesn't it? It really sounds like a cemetery. I think there is Fairlawn Cemetery. That would make sense. I bet there is. There has to be. Or like a Little League field or something.

Go there. So this is in Northeastern New Jersey. This is a suburb of New York City. Basically, it's 35 minutes to New York City. And that's right there. And that's in traffic. So, I mean, it's length distance wise, not very far at all. It's about an hour and 40 down to Philadelphia.

It's like an hour from my house, Jimmy. That's you could get there very quickly. About 30 minutes to our last new jersey episode hanover township new jersey way back in january of 2021 here episode 205 so it's been a while since we've hit up the uh the interesting state of new jersey i always it's so funny and i always say this about new jersey and new jersey people are good humored they take it on the chin they do yeah they're like florida people in that respect like florida people for the most part understand that they're gonna you're gonna mock florida and they get it and it's fine

they're okay but the difference between florida and jersey is like the the people that that uh take it in florida uh they also they they're just like the good ones. Do you know what I mean? Like they're the people that aren't participating in that shit. The people that get offended are the ones that will do that shit. In Jersey,

even the people that do the shit are like, I know, isn't it ridiculous? Well, you have to tell the truth. If you say true things, they're like,

I got a point. I can't argue with you about that. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. In Florida, it's like, they're like, there's no gators here. What are you talking about yeah they're everywhere you have things designed

specifically in your house to keep them away from your porch what are you talking about why are you so offended so yeah jersey when you drive like if you let's say you're going to newark and you're on the thruway there you'll go and there's like mountains mountains mountains and as soon as the hills end and it gets totally flat welcome to new jersey it's like they said well it's a right where we don't want this after these hills that's new jersey enjoy like it's what it feels like that seems like a pain in the ass to pave we'll just take this flat shit that's it no no we don't want this flat shit that's all gonna flood it's. It's like marshland. You guys take that. We'll take the hills and the trees and everything.

Jersey is hills? No, New York is. New York gave them the crappy stuff. That's what I'm saying. He said Jersey wanted it. I'm saying they had no choice but to take it. No, I'm saying. I got it.

Yeah. It's not that it's easier to maintain. It's that New York refuses to deal with it. Yeah. They're like, we don't want your marshy shit. You have it. And that's obviously coming from biased New York or New Jersey person might see it the other way. We don't feel like walking up those hills.

Thank you. So Bergen County, it's in area code 201. It's about five point two miles, not a huge city. The motto here is as basic as can be. They got it off a Hallmark card or like an advertiser. They went to go look for an advertising firm, a PR firm to like help them with a motto. And this was on their like front of, you know, just on their front web page. And they were like, we'll just take that.

We don't need to pay them. It's like font that you just choose. Yeah. Great. Like all the words. It's the picture in the frame that you bought yeah a great place to visit and a better place to live that's exactly what that is so uh history of this town first settlers here were members of the lani leni lenape tribe it's every time i say that i don't know if I'm saying it right. They were a peaceful tribe.

They were hunters and gatherers. And this land they actually sold. So there wasn't any fighting over it, apparently. They sold it to the Dutch and Irish settlers. And that tribe migrated to Pennsylvania after that. They made this into a bunch of farm lots this area and then basically had two main roads through all these farm lots and that was it and then uh they named it sleuter dam gross which sounds really gross it sounds like some sort of discharge yeah

it's disgusting either way but either one of those works, disgustingly enough. We both thought of something along the same lines, though. Yeah, it's certainly about genitals or reproduction. Yeah, it's going in somebody, and it's kind of weird. I'd get her pregnant, but she's got that goddamn sleuter dam. You know how it is. She stuck it up in there. Keeping my sleuter out of there.

Keeping all my sleut in and away. I'm wearing a condom so my sleut don't get everywhere. Right. So it's after a V-shaped sluice-like shipping weir built. I don't know what the fuck that means. In the Passaic River, I guess, by the Indians. So they made a, it's named after something. So their name stuck until 1791 when no one would move there because it's gross.

People were disgusted. So at that point, they broke the place into smaller lots. They put new new roads in and shit like that. They built a bunch of houses. There was 80 houses built by 1861 and they renamed it small lots because they made bigger lots small lots they're not good at naming things here like a small store of a discount furniture store small lot yes we get the shit big lots won't sell no more. Small Lots. Even cheaper.

Even cheaper. Because we take it out of their dumpster. Shit we found in Big Lots dumpster. That's in the parentheses under Small Lots. It was part of Saddle River Township. There's a bunch of vegetable farms and fruit farms and dairy. Dairy interest. This was an agricultural community.

farms and fruit farms and dairy okay dairy interest this was an agricultural community and um then they started building some bigger homes because some you know kind of farm owners were there so they wanted to have big homes and all this sort of shit so uh you know that's how it went and then eventually it turned into fair lawn which was i believe a real estate it was somebody's estate he called it fair lawn and then they just said that's a great name let's just name the whole town after the nicest house why don't we hilarious where's bubble hill located james because i want that whole town the whole town bubble hill from now on why not just the nicest house in town and name it after that wherever neverland ranch is call that town neverland ranch this is the most new jersey thing ever okay that i'm gonna say this

is the most i'll say new york new jersey this is just massachusetts the general northeast connecticut tri-state area type of shit that would happen here okay in 1982 a new jersey transit train so right away train we're in the northeast crashed into a pasta factory. What's more New Jersey than that? Yeah. Killing the train's engineer. Now, what caused this train in New Jersey to derail into a pasta factory? Did somebody olive oil the tracks, James? A bunch of hooligan teenagers.

That's what it was. What'd they do? Five dipshit teenagers tampered with the tracks. They did it. They did. That's the most ne'er-do-well teenagers fucking up a track so they crash into a pasta factory and there's just fucking rigatoni everywhere. This is a problem.

Was it butter or olive oil do you think they used? Oh, no. There's a farfalle all over the place so what are we gonna do so bad they just poured bertola all over the tracks is insanity i read that i'm like that can't be true i had to find like five sources before i believe that shit like literally i would not believe it's actually real they saw it in a in a in a bugs bunny cartoon and tried it and it was some wily coyote shit except italian style that's what it is so the train like rolls of quarters on the tracks either way yeah they did something who knows maybe it was a tied up woman i'm not sure the old time

they went old timey with it it was a barrel of tnt j Possibly with Acme written on the side of it. So it ran off the end of an industrial rail siding, and the lead car traveled 60 feet into the building. Holy shit! With the fucking engineer in it. So the engineer, his final act was to soar through the air in the lead car of a train and crash into pasta, which is the most... I'm sorry.

I feel bad for the man's family i really do i apologize for all that and we try not to make fun of anyone who died but holy shit is that the most that's like a fucking ride that's crazy and you land in pasta if he would have just landed in a vat of like still you know cooking pasta they he probably would have survived it would have just been real you know they made that noise as he got out and that's all that would have happened. If there's ever a theme park for Chef Boyardee, that sounds like the ending of the train ride,

whatever the, every theme park's got a train ride. It's the 18th hole of a mini golf course for sure. So two of these youths here were also seriously injured, 14 year old boy who was nearby uh two of the five children teenagers were charged and convicted of manslaughter for their roles in the incident and given five-year sentences in the state pen so holy shit i mean they killed a man for christ's sake this place has been been traditionally very center of Jewish culture, apparently, here.

A lot of Russian Jews came here, Orthodox Jewish people in here a lot. Also, shitload of Italian people historically. In 2000, it was 20% of the population was Italian, which is, that's a lot. We're like 5.5% of the population, so 20 is very, very much. But that's been decreasing a lot anyway so yes they moved to the shore as they moved to well those people none of them are italian jimmy please jesus christ wait what none of the people on jersey shore are really fucking italian none of them are like two of them are half italian or something but most of them aren't they

just act like fucking guidos because that's funny. Fuck them. And fun. So, anyway, the reviews of this town, the New York Times gave it probably the best review. In an article about it, the title of the article is, quote, Fairlawn, New Jersey, an unpretentious place that smells like cookies. Yeah. Is that real? I swear to God. I got that right off the New York Times. That's about as good a review as you can get.

It sure is. Not pretentious, and it actually just smells like cookies around here. Who the fuck doesn't want to go there? Disneyland genuinely pipes in the smell of cookies. They try to make it smell like fucking snickerdoodles. I don't know. They pipe in the smell of cinnamon and sugar to make it feel like you're smelling cookies. This place, it's just, it's natural. It's just there.

So five stars here. I came to Fairlawn in middle school and just graduated from Fairlawn High School. I have lived in many towns before, and this one has been my favorite. There is plenty in town and in surrounding towns. There is so much that I love about this place. There's also so much, and everything is so close. There's also so much and everything is so close.

There is also so much. There's just a lot of much. So much. So much. Here's a long one. I'll give a piece of it here. Four stars. Fairlawn is a solid middle class town that punches above its weight.

A great bang for your tax buck and completely unpretentious. Again, unpretentious. While delivering an overall high quality experience the schools are excellent there are many town services the population is diverse and it is family uh friendly and very safe okay there you go not bad so they like this place that's fascinating because jersey is the second highest taxes in the country yeah but i mean there's a lot he's saying bang for your buck though because there's a lot of services and good schools that's the other left of your paycheck we take care of you well yeah well

yeah that's the thing if you look at also schools yeah look at where they are and look at where arizona schools are 49th and no i'm not talking about arizona at all i'm just saying this guy is referencing trust me because my kids go to school that's it's a high tax bracket it is that's it's crazy if you've been there too the roads are nice and there's there's actual services yeah it's hawaii nothing because that is the lowest taxes in the country did you know that i have no idea what they're but everything there costs a lot so yeah that's's true. One way or another, you're going to pay. Yeah, they're getting your money no matter what. So what's the fucking big deal? Yeah, you're going to pay.

No place is just free to live. Places that have no income taxes, they have other kind of taxes. It's nuts. They'll get you. Don't worry. For sure. You'll get got. So two stars here.

I lived in Fairlawn for 14 years and have three children who started in the school system. We recently moved out of town mostly due to the taxes, crime, and overdevelopment. It stopped feeling like a small town. Oh, boy. They don't like that. Two stars for this one. The homes and taxes are overpriced. See, I'm giving a balance here.

The schools are better than average. The people, locals who grew up here and stayed here, are awful. That's straightforward. More cliquish than their teenage children. Ethnic and religious groups are exclusionary and prevalent. That's just how it goes. So people in this town, 32,877 right now uh more females than males it's kind of out of whack in that way a little bit as far as compared to the average a lot of people 45 years

old to 54 years old and a lot of kids so people who had kids when they're 40 and then moved here from the city that's what it is they lived in the city and then they had kids and they were like oh let's move somewhere where we have a yard that's exactly what happened in this whole town 60 married population which is higher than average it's all that shit's higher divorce rate is like half the normal divorce rate uh all that kind of thing uh single with no children's about normal though so that's not bad race of this town strange for right by new york city 71 white 1.1 black which is that is not a lot for where it's located selves of culture guys there's uh 13.1 asian so there's just different culture there's's Asian culture, definitely. And 13.7% Hispanic.

So it's, yeah, it's an interesting mix up in this town. 65% of the people here are religious. And I'll give you one hint what those are. 50% of the people here are Catholic. All Catholic. Catholics are, as we know, the Baptists of the North. I wanted it so bad to be 50% Jewish so that you just for the rest of the show saying haven't just the whole time well we could do it four times over because it's 4.3 percent jewish hey so that's great i don't know the words does anyone know

the words people do know the words and they've sent them to us, and thank you, but I can't memorize them. There's no way. That's my problem, not the song's. So in this town, Bergen County, in the last election, 57% voted Democrat, 41% Republican, 1.5% Independent. Unemployment rate is just about regular with the rest of the country right now. Household income, though, a little bit higher. unemployment rate is just about regular with the rest of the country right now household income though a little bit higher usually average household income 57 and a half thousand here 109 747 more than double holy shit this is a place where you you live here so you can work in the

city yeah and in the city you make good money and then you live here so you don't have to spend what it costs to work in the city so yeah that's what you have to pay to get people to work in a place that's very expensive so 22 percent of the people here make between 100 and 150 000 so good upper middle class type of uh you know income going on here so the cost of living 100 is regular average here it's 138 so a little bit high i would say housing is the high one housing is a 185 oh that's the one median home cost rest of the country it's about 291 493 600 bucks here little on the pricey side 50 of the houses are between 500 and 750 000 that's what they're valued so 50 50 so it's expensive and they're not huge houses most of them and we'll talk about it if you've we've convinced you

damn it get out of the city and you're going to fair lawn new jersey to the flatlands we have for you the fair lawn new jersey real estate report. Your average two bedroom rental here goes for sixteen hundred thirteen dollars, which is above the national average by about four hundred bucks. There's no square footage on like ninety five percent of these houses. I don't know why, but it seems to be a New Jersey thing. Whenever I look up houses in this area, very few of them have the square footage listed. They have the lot size listed. It's weird. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath.

This one I found the square footage, 1,328 square feet. No inside pictures, though. Oh, boy. Which is frightening. They do call it cozy a number of times in the description, though. It better be pretty goddamn cozy because it's 395 000 that better be oozing coziness it better be oozing slooterville or whatever the hell that was everything that i have that's cozy james is

old and worn the fuck out cozy yeah that's what that means small and worn out is what cozy means. Like a Sluderville. So four bedroom, two bath, I found. Two story. No idea how many square feet, but it's a 7,139 square foot lot. Does it take up the whole lot? Pretty much, yeah. There's not a lot of yard. That's great then. Not a lot of yard.

Pretty nice. Some updated stuff. It's four bedroom, two bath, like I said. So decent place. $569,900. Holy shit. stuff it's four bedroom two bath like i said so decent place 569 900 bucks so that's your average kind of four bedroom decent nice two-story clean looking house then i found this one's nice it's a new construction brand new okay four bedrooms two and a half baths 2371 square feet uh it's all spanky new all the white crap in the kitchen.

Every trend that you can see. If you turn on HGTV right now, whatever they do to a house, that's what's done to this house. Very suburban with these columns. Yeah, lots of white tile. Absolutely. $789,000 for this thing. Oh, my God. 2,300 square feet.

Three quarters of a million dollars. That's a lot. But, I mean, a half hour away, you would pay 17 million dollars for that amount of space. So I guess it's whatever things to do in this town. Number one, just go to New York City. It's right there. Lots of stuff to do. You can pick anything. You could see us in Brooklyn.

As a matter of fact, you betcha. On December 5th, maybe 4th. I don't know. Something like that. It's that weekend. We're there. House in Brooklyn. Yeah, something like that. It's that weekend at our house in Brooklyn. Yeah, we're there.

Or you can go to the Summer Concert Series, Jimmy. Oh, yeah. You know that's going to happen in Memorial Park. It's going on. This happened over the summer, but I can give you a recap if you'd like. I would love to hear it. On June 27th, Asbury Fever was there. What do you think they do,immy i bet you'll even guess

it on the first try it's uh peter gabriel covers it's bruce springsteen covers you're kicking it off with that the next should be the bon jovi covers and then back to springsteen we just go back to one uh sunset sounds after that with a z 50s 60s 70s hits and more everything is covered everything yep they just do that's all it is uh no well maybe not the 18th is the coots with a z and a k the coots that doesn't sound good they play rock and roll it just says so that's probably 50s rock and roll or something uh they have a big band uh oh due south is there playing new country it says yeah due south is a is a band uh are they really i think i think so well there you go well they're following jersey sound who have oldies pop motown and more so i don't know uh

who else is here oh the cameos doing doo-wop and oldies. The Tequila Rose Band playing new and classic country. The thing they're telling you the most here is it's in big, bold letters here. Quote, you must bring your own chair. They're not going to provide chairs. So if you're expecting to show up and get a chair, fucking, you're not happening. There will be no chairs. You must bring your own chair. There's also

the cameos plural not cameo no no the cameos all of them as a whole they're making cameos but they all have their own chairs yeah literally the biggest thing on the whole website is the font and thickness of you must bring your own chairs very important refreshments will not be sold at the concerts. Attendees should bring their own beverages and snacks. No alcoholic beverages and glass bottles and no smoking. There are so many fucking rules here. It's New Jersey.

Just bring a chair. Can we have fun, too, still? No. You're listening to Bruce Springsteen covers. No. Crime rate in this town. Property crime. People said they moved because of the crime.

Property crime is about one third under the national average. So not much violent crime, murder, rape, robbery. And of course, assault is in fair law and is fairly nonexistent. We'll say it's less. It's more than two thirds less than that under the national average. So it's less than's more than two-thirds less than the under the national average so it's less than one-third of the national average of violent crime maybe they saw a bridge being painted in anticipation oh you know what this means it's gonna get bad around here they heard like a gunshot from jersey city and they're like i don't like this so uh that said

the safe town town of fair lawn will people wherewn where people would commute to the city and come home with their briefcases and their 1950s hats on and everything. We have for you. Let's talk about a murder. We need to. Okay. To do that, we need to go back in time, Jimmy. Let's do some traveling, James. We're going to do some traveling.

What's better to travel than on the holidays? On the holidays, that's nostalgia time. That's when you travel. Reminisce, yeah. Think about this. We're going back to Thanksgiving Day, 1984. All right. November the 22nd, 1984.

I was three and had all my fingers. Oh, think about the dumb shit clothes we were wearing and pictures for our family. All of our grandparents were alive. This was a different time. A bunch of little slugger shirts, James. That's what I was wearing. Little slugger. My dead grandfathers were hammered, you know, shit-faced and yelling at people.

I wonder if this is the year that my cousin once told me a hilarious story. Hilarious in my family, anyway. This would be tragic, probably, and thought of as a need for therapy in other families. But as a young child, I was at Thanksgiving and he was acting up somehow. Who knows what the fuck kids are doing. So my grandfather told him he was not allowed to eat Thanksgiving dinner, right, at all. So my aunt or my father's aunt, great aunt said no you're not doing that fuck that the kid's sitting at the table and argued with him anyway he ended up sitting at

the table and my grandfather ended up walking around the yard drinking for the rest of the night stayed out of the house and just walked around by himself drinking and smoking like a lone silhouette in the fucking yard which is one of us hasn't eaten this that's yeah that i mean that would definitely be called for there's red flags all over that shit but in our family that's just that's hilarious isn't that crazy it's pretty funny oh alcoholism is amazing isn't it so well you, when you undermine my authority, I will go drink and, and I'll show you. God damn it.

I won't talk to anybody. Freezing cold. Just standing out there. That's a great point too. That's amazing. That's like me for hours till it was dark out. It gets dark at four 30 here by Thanksgiving. He's standing outside in the dark for hours till people started leaving.

So, uh, November 22nd, 1984 Thanksgiving day, 1984, Thanksgiving Day in Fairlawn, New Jersey. Yeah. Like I said, there's ugly sweaters everywhere. Things are happening.

Lions are on TV. Oh, man. 9.45 p.m. rolls around. So this is, you're sitting there with the full stomach. Oh, God. You've probably even indulged in some extra dessert by now. For sure. You've started to get peckish

again and you went back in for another piece of pie at this point you can't wait to shit oh god you just want everyone out so you can't want everyone out so you can literally shit something with feathers on it because it's just too much so this is the point uh You know, you've watched bad football. You've had you've been you've endured the Lions all day. Yeah, it's bad stuff. So 945 p.m. James W. McCauley. Yeah.

Okay. He is sitting in his home in Fairlawn on Pomona Avenue, and he is nursing his his full belly at this moment in time. He's watching TV. There's movies on on thanksgiving night shit like that watching that and uh out of nowhere by the way he's an ex-police officer james mccauley he's i think a retired police officer too sitting around all out of nowhere 9 45 thanksgiving night things are quiet people have already left your house you're expecting no more anything to happen instead he hears footsteps up on his porch and

then a loud pounding on his front door like frantic footsteps on a pounding like what the hell could be an emergency so he swings the door open and he finds two of his neighbors two 19 year olds young people that live next door he said they looked quote pretty well shook up which is pretty descriptive they uh they tell him that ruth next door the young lady's mother is dead oh my mom's dead they're they're hysterical they're freaking out ran over there my mom's dead help us help us i guess they thought of the neighbor he's a retired cop and he's an older person we're 19 he'll know what to do yeah that's yeah when i was 19 i would have done the same thing so they uh they now i know enough to just go whoop i'm gonna walk away and pretend like i

didn't know i'm just kidding mind your own business no not if it's your mom grandma no if it's your mom say something so um macaaulay says that he thought he thought they came to tell him like, oh, you know, she had a heart attack or something. You know, it happens. And that's what he was anticipating when he walked in. But then he walks into the house, opens the door and he he tells the kids, quote, call the police. He tells the kids, quote, call the police. This is, you know, something goes back and tells his wife in the next next door again. Call the police. Her mother's dead next door. You know, I got to look into this, apparently. So she said that the daughter he said the daughter was, quote, hysterical, crying, mumbling.

You couldn't understand what she was saying. Oh, so just completely losing her fucking mind over the whole deal, which I mean, yeah, you're 19. You walk in, your mom's dead. You might turn into a bubble or blubbering mess. You know, I'd certainly melt down. Yeah, absolutely. So they called police to report that, you know, she was dead. That was going on while he was looking in there, walked in and sees the house in complete disarray.

Oh, that's the other thing. Like, wow, this hell happened there's shit everywhere a door the back door is like broken off the hinges it's very heart attack yeah really she must have had it was violent oh he's like red fox and sanford and son instead of grabbing shit though he just started smashing everything kicking doors in and shit not grabbing justice grabbing the house absolutely so and macaulay while in the house he also picks up the phone and calls the police too because he just like i need to also talk to the police he says while he does that the young man who had knocked on his door of the couple didn't say a word and just paced back and forth across the living room which people handle crazy shit in different ways some people lose it some people stay very calm and figure out how to work it and then flip out later it's a yeah you know it's just how people

react processing processing um yeah um he said that she on the other hand the daughter at this point had started just sitting there crying. So when the police arrived, they knew Macaulay. So they said, hey, will you talk to the kids outside and keep them there while we kind of look around, you know, keep them out of the way and, you know, you hang out with them. Yeah. Yeah. So when police arrived, they say, yeah, you babysit them out here and we'll check out the house yeah and they walk into the house and they're like whoa this house has been ransacked is the best word for it like old-fashioned ransacking all every drawer in the house is open yeah like in every bedroom

everything is taken out of everywhere strewn everywhere shit's pulled out of closets it's just like it looks like a complete inspection of the of the place like looks like the cops tossed it served yeah it looks like the cops tossed it they showed up at 5 a.m looking for tons of meth and then they just tossed this joint so they did all of that the back door uh the lock was broken on the back door and the back door had been broken as well. Uh, so they were, you know, suspicious. And then, the other thing that they found was the,

the next door neighbor. He said, I thought the, he, while he's talking to the couple outside, he thought they were brother and sister and their mom was dead. He finds out that their boyfriend and girlfriend and it's her mom that's dead okay he was like i thought they were brother and sister because they've been living

there for a couple years and they're teenagers so i just assumed i didn't assume they were a couple living with the mother and the mom lives there too yes okay so she has her boyfriend move in with them yes for a couple of years and the other strange thing that they find in the house that's really weird is the mother not only is she dead but uh she's clearly had her head bashed in and there are not one but two knives sticking out of her back oh my and she's lying there dead in the living room look uh deadpool yeah this is uh i don't know a turkey carving argument gone awry i'm not crazy this is uh two knives is something too to say most people don't attack with two knives you only have one strong hand so you don't usually even guns you see not many people are doc

holiday that are busting with double guns it's one at a time you know what i mean i mean usually it's one weapon at a time no matter what the weapon yeah there'd be yeah you don't even throw two grenades at a time no that would be silly that would be silly but that's mostly because i throw like a like a dick with my left hand and most people don't do great things with their off hand that's why you don't want to be wielding a knife with it because you're probably not going to be able to use it as well as you want you know it's that's just crazy i know one person in school one time that stabbed somebody with two You don't want to be wielding a knife with it because you're probably not going to be able to use it as well as you want. That's just crazy.

I know one person in school one time that stabbed somebody with two knives, and he was so fucked up on dust, he didn't even know what he was doing. And he went outside and sat under a tree afterwards. So fucked up on dust, he was ambidextrous? Yeah. He didn't realize what he was doing. He almost killed the kid, too. That's a crime in sports reference, the amphibiousness of not one but two different people said they were amphibious meaning ambidextrous happen to be teammates so one influence the other yeah they did too it's i think washburn was the main

influencer there that's the guy with lots of followers yeah definitely so that's an interesting thing so who the hell are these kids first of all i'm riveted um yes well this all happens by the way at 11 pomona avenue that's the address here and it's very important to know the address of the house because the house itself is going to be a quite a character in this little tale we talk about here it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, the young lady, the woman's daughter, is named Susan Mager. M-A-G-E-R.

She's 19 years old. Okay. And she lives there with her mother. Her father, who is her mother's ex-husband, obviously. Her mother's name is Ruth uh is ruth i'm sorry roof i just said roof uh ruth jacobus is her name jacob with a u.s on the end oh wow jacobus so uh yeah ruth jacobus as the mother susan mager 19 she's the daughter her father ruth's ex-husband is a teaneck new jersey police detective teaneck teaneck new jersey not too far away and he's a police detective the father like an active at

the time police detective mager just graduated from teaneck high school and recently she has taken a big step in her career by attending the roman academy beauty school in hawthorne oh great so she's doing very well soon to be a beauty school dropout which that's all that puts in my head every time beauty school dropout no graduation day for you two knives in your mom You better have an excuse. That was a fascinating movie in that spot, too, because that chick's 17, right? Yeah. And she looks like she is trying to fuck a 40-year-old man. Well, yeah.

She is certainly swooning. He's playing younger him. That's the thing. He's playing like him in's the thing he's playing like him in 19 in 1959 yes that's what it's supposed to be even though at the time he's like 46 or something way too old yeah way too old for this weird shit i mean she was probably 28 also the actress because i mean true but she's talking about a 17 year old and he's yeah like baiting her into him molesting her no she's baiting him into molesting her, is what it is. In reality, it's just two middle-aged people finding comfort in each other in the actuality.

What it is is two middle-aged people having a day job of acting. That's it. In the PSA Hate This Movie, we talked about that. We went over all the ages of all the actors, and it's fucking mystifying. Way too old. Stocker Channing is literally 35 years old.

Not kidding. 35 playing a 17-year-old. It's fascinating. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course she looks like she's had it a little rough. She's 35. She's probably, she's on her third career. Like, what are you talking about?

They may have cast her in that because of the fact that Rizzo was supposed to have a rough life, right? That was the idea? Shit, I guess so. A 35-year-old life. Sure looks like it. So anyway, the Roman Academy Beauty School in Hawthorne. And yeah, she did that. She's currently there.

And her boyfriend is Edward Zakarian. Z-A-K-A-R-I-N. He's 19 years old. Edward Zakarian, Z-A-K-A-R-I-N. He's 19 years old, Edward Zakarian. He goes to Fairleigh Dickinson University. Fairleigh. Fairleigh. Fairleigh. Fairleigh Dickinson and Fairlawn.

It's not in Fairlawn anyway, but he's also working his way through school. How do you think he, what do you think his job is, Jimmy? He works, he's a mechanic. He is an Encyclopedia Britannica salesman. What? He sells encyclopedias, Jimmy. That's hysterical. When's the last time you heard of that being a profession?

Selling encyclopedias. I've literally never seen it. I've only heard of it. You've heard of it. I've heard of it. People, about when you're a kid, you'd see encyclopedias in people's houses and you assume someone stopped by and sold them to them. But it's something that happens in private.

You don't see that happen. Where did this mystical fucker come from? Yeah, whoa, where did this come from? And the second, the first thing that was killed by the internet was encyclopedia salesmen. Because literally that's the first thing people figured out is, what is that? I'd be quicker to look that up here. Oh at that i never need these again and if anyone came to the door they'd go fuck i have do you hear that in the background that means i don't need you anymore i don't need get out of my face but the the the vacuum salesman hung on till fairly recently i don't know if they

still do it but they will the kirby will show up to your house to give you a fucking demonstration that was a always sunny plot line like seven years ago like you know frank's new thing was he was gonna sell the vacuum cleaners and the knives and shit still happens it still happens so he's doing that then and they were high school sweethearts apparently uh uh the daughter here and uh yeah susan and edward were high school sweethearts, apparently. The daughter here. And yeah, Susan and Edward are high school sweethearts. And now he's going to Fairleigh Dickinson, selling some encyclopedias. She's going to make you up nice.

Give you that jersey puff to your hair and that thick eyeliner and make you look like fucking Adriana from The Sopranos. That's the goal here. Perfect. Especially in 84. Imagine what she was learning. Oh, myos. That's the goal here. Perfect. Especially in 84. Imagine what she was learning. Oh, my God. Oh, my. Higher.

Higher. I'm going to give you a D because it's not high enough. Give me more gum. Okay. I'm going to give you a D. It's not high enough. I'm sorry. It's lost its flavor.

Look, it's going to fall down. She goes outside. It could be three inches of snow. It's going to fall down. She goes outside. It could be three inches of snow. It's going to fall down. Then what? Then what? It's garbage. D minus.

D minus. So she now Ruth is is Susan's mother, Ruth Jacobus. She was 48 years old before. So young. Tragic murder, obviously. Yeah. Even more tragic is it's hard for her.

She couldn't have called for help because she is, first of all, deaf. So, she can't hear at all. And on top of that, she's also mute. Now, I don't know if that's the correct term for that or not. I'm not sure.

You don't come across it enough to even, I don't know if that's the correct term for that or not i'm not sure what that you don't you don't come across it enough to even i don't even know she unspeaking i whatever the fuck she is she doesn't talk she can't most people that are deaf james are are non-verbal but that's just because they can't hear i mean they they don't know how to do it because they can't hear yeah they don't know that but a lot of times they learn yeah most deaf people i've known have can commute can talk if you you know not not fully deaf not right yeah i don't know they can't be fully deaf because they don't know how to do it if they lost their hearing yes if they're born deaf obviously that'd be more if you're born hearing and right and you can yeah you can learn then you can still get the words out they sound

obviously a little a little different but yeah uh but people that were born deaf they don't they're they're uh non-verbal i guess is the word yeah i guess she could make some noises but not much not even not word she couldn't produce much noise so she had some sort of it wasn't just that she was deaf and didn't she couldn't speak she had some sort of issue with her actual facilities and speaking so all she could do is make some noise so she could indicate if she was upset or something like that but it would all you know it's very you couldn't it's just from noises just from little noises she could make so um because of this and we everybody says pretty much because of this she was kind of shy in with like new people

because yeah it's difficult for her to let you know who she is back then especially back then because now maybe she if you meet her then she could text you and she might be fucking hilarious and text because she can get that off you know what i mean but in in real life she can't really tell you much so she didn't really mingle with her neighbors or anything she's lived there for about two years and uh one of her neighbors said that she just never really never really got to know her and wave at her and things like that but that's it so they found her in the kitchen uh between the kind of kitchen and living room of this small house here uh she'd been bludgeoned with what they found because they found it nearby and it matched up with the wounds bludgeoned with a hammer dear lord bashed in the

skull about five times with a hammer a deaf lady that can't even talk can't even talk and has two knives embedded in her back dear lord that's too much um yes they fit one was a big like a big like a slicing like a butcher knife big kitchen knife and one was a paring knife a smaller knife both just jammed in there stuck in there uh she stabbed twice and they just left the blades in there so um yeah they found all the weapons right there they found out that she bled to death from a severed pulmonary artery so they said the one blade was about an less than an inch away from just piercing her actual heart it was right there and the other one sliced her liver so yeah that's uh that's rough that is two really good shots like they're very unlucky ruth has

shit luck let's just say that she's got bad luck on thanksgiving night for christ's sake she's probably she probably got done cleaning and then had this happen to her which is just threw away bones and packed away sandwich meat someone lost the wishbone challenge this night and uh this is fucking horrible this poor woman so they said there was more wounds as well but they were as a result of a fall they're from what they can gather just from putting together basic physical evidence it seems to be that someone bashed her in the head with a hammer one or more times until she fell uh when she fell she hurt herself more then she was bashed a couple more times while she was incapacitated

and then stabbed twice in the back with different god damn it so this is really really on purpose like there's no you know there's nothing that you could, there's nothing, nothing mitigating here. Yeah. I don't know what you can't say. I just couldn't take it anymore. She kept yelling at me. That's not part of, that's not an excuse.

There's no, not a lot of excuse here unless she was physically attacking you here. So the, uh, police officer that got there said upon a cursory examination, it appeared an intruder broken by the rear door and ransacked the house. So they said once they started looking through it, though, they started realizing that, quote, the premises did not really reflect an intruder. OK, so they're like, there's some there's something off about it.

The door's broken. The house is ransacked, but not an intruder. But the way it's ransacked isn't a way that an intruder ransacks. An intruder doesn't just make a mess. That's not what their goal isn't just to make it look like it's messy. Their goal is to steal shit. So they're looking for shit. And taking the contents

of a drawer and making sure you fling them from one side to another is not conducive to getting you more loot. That's the point. So the drawer with the keys that go to nothing in the house is to getting you more loot that's the point so the drawer with the keys that go to nothing in the house is all over the place and there's no reason to have it they generally will do things that are not not to waste time having oh i'm gonna fling this over here yay like i'll throw her socks over in that direction yeah but people who want to make it look like a ransacking they make a mess because that's what they think it

looks like in their brain it's a in a in a movie you walk into a room and the desk is tipped over and the thing the lamps messed up why would a fucking why would an intruder knock the lamp over how does that help you know what i mean it doesn't why would they tip a desk over what does that help anybody that's just so it looks cool on film and people get that in their heads it's like why when people get shot they fall down because they think they're supposed to fall down most of the time unless they hit something that you know shuts off their nervous system they don't have to fall down they just fall down because they think oh shit i got shot so i fall down psychologically yeah that's the

same shit yeah same shit though so uh anyway in this the uh the police officer here and one of the neighbors tells one of the police officers oh it happened again here what the cop says what are you talking about she goes you don't know it this is a house of tragedy and they go what are you talking about and then it kicks in we start looking back in history and we go back to 1973 we go back to we go back to 10 years ago 10 years ago we go back to walter jacobus her dad walter jacobus is ruth jacobus's deceased husband oh okay and we'll talk about how that happened. Walter Jacobus was married to a woman in 1973 named Phyllis Ruth. Also, another Ruth. What the fuck?

So, Phyllis. We'll just call her Phyllis. Jacobus was an electrician and then became chief of the Fairlawn Volunteer Fire Department. So, he is like Steve Martin and Roxanne, though. Everyone knows him he's the hey chief how's it going chief the chief of the fire department is a big deal in this town you know what i mean it's about that's their fire department's volunteer he's the fucking chief yeah he's i don't know the size of this man's nose or whatever but how good is he with the tennis racket

he's pretty pretty good um yeah i love him fucking with those old ladies all the time. That's amazing. That's my favorite. So anyway, he served for 20 years in the fire department, became the chief. He's also an electrician. He's a very passionate man. Very passionate. I saw articles about him very upset about false alarms at the high school. What do you mean? Kids are pulling false alarms at the high school.

He's furious about it? He said, Jesus Christ. alarms at the high school what do you mean kids are pulling false alarms at the high school furious about it he said jesus christ he literally said what happens when there's actually a fire in one of these buildings and we're not rushing there because we think it's some other thing or somebody pulls a false alarm in the middle school and then the elementary school actually catches fire what are we supposed to do then these little punks need to be dealt with that was his boys and wolves god damn it stop crying stop it so he there's an incident where phyllis is involved in a car accident and he gets involved in it he shows up at the site of the car accident and doesn't like the way the cop is handling the whole accident scene so he got involved started yelling at the cop and having a

shit fit basically saying you know you're not handling my wife well and all this to the point where he gets arrested for it in the street for defending imagine for defending phyllis and he's uh got a hundred dollar bail and he's you know he's got to bail himself out of jail and it's a big deal. Fire chief, you know, charged with obstructing of whatever the fuck. Oh, being charged as being a disorderly person for disrupting a police officer's processing of an accident scene. So he's passionate and his passion overwhelms him. We'll say in March of 1973, March 14th 14th 1973 in this very same house uh he is home with his wife

phyllis and whatever happened they got into an argument and he stabbed her to death what stabbed her good i mean just repeatedly stabbed her deep stab wound near the heart several other superficial wounds stabbed her to death, picked up the phone, called the cops. He said, Hey, how's it going?

Yeah. Chief over here. Chief Walter. I said, quote, I've just killed my wife and now I'm going to kill myself and hung up. So he did that. When the police found him,

they walked in the house, they found her dead, and they found him on the bed also slumped beside her with deep stab wounds as well. He took the knife and just started fucking stabbing himself in the abdomen as fucking deep as he could get it. That is ballsy. Oh, yeah. He was bleeding out when they found him. They took him to the hospital in critical condition. This wasn't like, you know, I'm making a show of this and i stabbed my like he was like to the hilt with himself didn't give a fuck crazy so this is a real like a real actual attempt here

uh in a they had an arraignment at his bedside they actually did a bedside arraignment he had an emergency surgery where they was you surgery where they saved his life here. And by the way, one of the detectives, his name is Boogerman. E. Like Boogerman? Boogerman. Booger? B-O-O-G-E-R.

Booger. T-Man. Booger T-Man. They call him Boogie Man, right? I would think so. Just Booger. Either one. Or Booger.

Or Booger. Booger man and his partner's name is hickey so it's like it's just ridiculous they just we've been both been made fun of a lot in our childhood so we've decided to get guns and no one will do it anymore deposed the the chief is that what happened they're yeah they're talking to the chief here. So she she is pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. She's already dead. She was dead when they got there, but they called her at the hospital. She was taken right away and it was kind of like, you know, whatever.

But he was on the critical and surgery to save his life and all that sort of shit here. So she ended up with four stab wounds uh a couple of them in the left ventricle of the heart so that's what she has i guess it's obvious that a knife wound can kill somebody but in my head like you're betting on the ones that you've inflicted are the ones that are that those are good enough do you know i mean like yeah i see why people stab 90 fucking times it as much as it like it sounds exhausting and all i i'm shocked and check though you can stab and be like let's see what happened on that one i'm always shocked when people get stabbed four times and die stab then assess is what i'm getting at stab first assess later and uh see if how much more stabbing is needed.

You know, if anything, don't wear yourself out. But this guy... Conserve it. Conserve your stabbing energy because you might need to stab yourself and he couldn't get the job done. That's the problem. But this poor woman, she died. They said the knife used in the slaying was a serrated steak knife, which, ah. Oh, God.

That's awful. About eight inches long and five-eighths of an inch in width. So, yeah, long and thin. One of those. Yeah, I guess that's about how wide they are. Man, stabbed himself three times. One of his wounds came within one-sixteenth of an inch of piercing his heart. So, with a steak knife you really

gotta want that to stab that in there and yourself that's hard to do uh really hard to do they at the time people were trying to figure out why he fucking did this he's like the beloved fire chief no one could understand it and they said stress this is from a bunch of family friends they believe that stress over his wife's medical condition may have caused him to cut her up i'm so worried about her i have to stab her in the heart a bunch of times is a weird defense he guess she was recently diagnosed with diabetes and had returned from the hospital after being injured severely in multiple auto accidents in recent years so i guess she was in pain and she had diabetes this doesn't seem like a mercy thing here this isn't well she was she was 37 jimmy like

we could get her back on the right track get her some physical therapy maybe a better diet regimen with some insulin and we'll get her going again like this isn't like i had to put her down depending on the severity of the diabetes you can beat that you know what i mean like she's 37 it's not necessarily the end nope jimmy it was time it was time and uh you know how you can see the look in their eyes when they say please please you know i can't even walk anymore my hips are bothering me and i don't oh no that's a dog that's a dog that's not a person on the carpet time to put it down that dude what the fuck like that's that's not a mercy killing at this age here this is just insanity uh they said that he left a note though explaining that he committed the crime because his wife said that she was gonna leave him okay so she's obviously well enough to

leave him so i don't know what theory to believe here i'm gonna believe the theory of she said she was gonna leave him he freaked out stabbed her a bunch much more plausible said wow this sucks i better stab myself now that sounds like a man that's crazy so one of his fire employees said quote you never know what will happen from one day to the next the chief's dead so the uh they they were like a popular couple in the community too he was at all this went to the mayor's house all the time and social functions and everyone knew them and said they were both quiet and polite and well liked by their friends and there was no none of this was like a thing that anybody ever expected to happen as a matter of fact one of their friends said quote it was

totally unexpected backing me up 100 there's such nice people it's perfect now their children because they have young children as well this isn isn't like, you know, there's young children here. One of them is 15 years old, and then they have a younger one as well. Oh, no, they live there 15 or 16 years. They have two small children that are now going to be taken into the home of their grandparents who live across the street, so they get to look at that. That's a lot of fun here. That's brutal.

They don't even go across town. They literally come home from school and see the event every day. See the police tape up across the house. Every day. Walter Jr.'s 14 and Russell is 8 are the children. Absolutely awful. God damn it. He did that with two little kids.

Not only kill the mom, but then kill yourself. I'll leave my kids with nothing. Nothing. Nothing at all. First of all, if you're going to kill yourself, just kill yourself anyway. You don't have to take anybody with you. If you're in this situation where you're like,

I'm going to kill someone and then kill myself. Well, save the first step. It really doesn't matter. As long as you're dead anyway, what do you care what's going on with them? That's a good point. If you're picking murder-suicide as the finality, like for sure it's all, just go with suicide.

Stop caring what people are saying when you're not in the room you know what i'm saying that's all it's the basic bottom line of it who gives a shit you're dead let them let them let everybody else go along with their business maybe it's you so uh that's only if you're going to kill people otherwise don't kill yourself but if you don't know if you're planning on a murder suicide and that's the only option skip the murder part at that point. I'm just trying to mitigate damage. Anyway, they're staying over there. Friends are freaked out, like we said.

And anyway, he goes to court and he ends up pleading. He pleads not guilty at first. And then he pleads like a no contest type of thing. It's called no defense. I don't know if that's something you could plead in Jersey. This thing is just no contest, basically. So he pleads no defense here. So he's convicted of this, and he receives, you, sir, may fuck off, a sentence of 10 to 12 years.

That sounds like an Alford plea. Kind of, I guess. a sentence of 10 to 12 years that sounds like an alfred plea it's kind of i guess no defense though they're all different in different states how they're classified but it seems like a no contest no defense let's say like almost exactly but who knows but anyway he receives a 10 to 12 year sentence and right away soon as he gets into prison he's just uh petitioning to get out early he wants to get out early um he in 1973 his sentence is he's successful his sentence is reduced to nine years in prison so he gets it reduced to that and then after that he goes to court again and claims that his continued imprisonment is becoming a real hardship for his family. Yeah.

That's a lot of people who are in prison. It's a hardship for their. I'd say you could pull 90 percent of the people in prison and goes, this is a hardship for your family. And they go, yeah, fuck. Yeah. Yeah. I got kids. I got a wife.

I got a husband. I got this. I got that. I got my mom. I'm going to take care of this one. He's like, it's a real hardship. And the judge is like, oh, really? Shit.

Well, we got to help you with that. He's not even like, well, yes, stupid. You're in prison. You stabbed your wife in the heart, dummy. That's what happens. You should have thought of that. I bet you have pictures of your kids all over your fucking house. You couldn't have looked up at a wall and said, oh, yeah, this is I'm going to fuck things up for them.

It's going to be a hardship if I kill their mom. That's a hardship. So what does he serve, James? He says it's a hardship and he's very upset. And the parent grandparents moved to Florida and the ones that are in the area that can take care of the kids are physically unable to do it. So, you know, it's either him or the kids are going to end up in an orphanage jesus christ you gotta let him out please for the love of god and they say you know what we're gonna let this fine man out to take care of his children you sir can go home and take care of

your kids after 17 months in jail holy shit 17 months in new jersey he stabbed the fucking christ out of his wife and he got 17 months in jail man that is unbelievable dude that's a motherfucker man that shit just isn't right um that's wild i don't even know what to say about that shit he's released in december of 74 and uh goes on with his life james that's worse than miscarriage of justice where somebody's let free that certainly did it you know what i mean because this is like they got him they put him in jail and they're like yeah you're all right imagine if like oj got convicted yeah and then in two years they were like we're gonna let him go it's hard on his kids people be like what are you fucking talking about huh this is you know scott peterson

you know it's been difficult on your i'm sure your mom's sad we're gonna let you out of jail you know brother's license that keeps coming up in interviews your brother's got to be just distraught but in both of those scenarios imagine they also admitted to doing it that's the other thing they also said they did it and then they were like but i mean it's so hard on people for you to do this so he ends up coming out of jail and just doing his thing and uh he's the chief he's not the fire chief anymore but people still like him he's not there's not even like a stigma attached to it it's very weird it's so strange he comes out and there's no literally no like people aren't he's not like ostracized from the community people are just like hey walter how you doing let's go on with paying your debt walter hey walter's out of prison that's let's see if he goes wants to

go fishing this weekend what the fuck are you talking about oh my god i thought you'd be in forever welcome back hey walter so i mean if you don't marry him you're pretty well safe yeah well speaking of that in 1982 is when he marries ruth jacobus our deceased woman here um he met her at the easter seal community center in hackensack how cute yeah uh she worked as uh or he was the longtime maintenance foreman there and she worked for the center which performs small production jobs for private industry is what it says here and uh one of the women who worked there said quote we all used to marvel at how rapidly and accurately she would work uh her death is a terrible shock so she worked there for a long time

he worked there as well. He got a job there in the mid 70s or late 70s after he'd been, I guess they hire convicted murderers there to do janitorial work. I don't think that that E check, whatever it is, that background thing. I don't think that existed yet. No. And she couldn't ask like, so what have you been up to in the last five to seven years? Like been married before

there's the lack of conversation there is going to be a hindrance when you need to find out if someone killed their last wife right but i mean she can't hear and can't talk then it's perfect plus any anybody that was there you would think whoever whoever's the hr person yeah knows this guy killed his wife and somebody's got to tell her yeah any woman within a viable age range for him to go after you think you'd be like hey i want you to meet walter the guy who killed his wife and we hired anyway because we're good people here he is how you do it this is this is ruth ruth this is the guy who murdered his wife's dad were four times right in the heart then stabbed himself a bunch too really crazy stuff a little unstable anyway this is

walter you might want to uh unless you introduce him as this is walter real romeo and juliet this guy yeah real romeo and juliet type except uh you know it's kind of an involuntary juliet situation he's like a romeo with a just a they always say romeo and juliet in like a romantic romantic way. Yeah. But it's the most disgusting thing. It's a horrible thing. It's teenagers who wouldn't even like each other in six months if they just give it a chance deciding to kill each other over unrequited horseshit. Who've known each other for literally like 48 hours.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a it's a it's that's what a romcom would have been if they had them in like the 15th century. They'd have been 16th century. They literally don't even know each other's middle names and they're killing themselves over each other god forbid imagine that how shitty would you feel if you're their family too we've known you your whole life you're gonna just more important somebody you met fucking 48 hours ago no loyalty here you ever considered killing yourself over a one-night stand only over regret not

necessarily not over this lack of forever jesus christ so poor ruth here she marries him and uh now they she had ruth has four children from a previous marriage to gerald mager who was the teen act police detective yep and uh everyone said she seemed to be very caring for her family. Now, in December of 1983, so 11 months before the Thanksgiving Day tragedy, he, Walter, dies of liver disease. Wow. Yeah. So he dies in the house of liver disease. He's dead.

Ruth stays. Who knows? Ruth stays in the house that he killed his wife in earlier with her youngest daughter, Susan, and allows the boyfriend to move in. Okay. Stephen King book.

That's what I mean. This fucking house has a life of its own. It's insane. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence

and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. What the fuck happened in this story? Let's get to that. What happened to Ruth? That's the important. We know what happened to Phyllis Ruth. Now let's find out what happened to Ruth Ruth. Now, Ruth his grandmother and aunt's house yes so very normal and he said then they went to back to ruth's house to go have thanksgiving dinner number two which if you know anything about that when you're in a relationship that's newer once you're married

you just pick one or whatever but if you have a newer relationship you have to go to like two to three thanksgivings and it's really depending on if you have a family that's all together if it's not uh it's a mess is that the word yeah yeah yes which is mislabeled because my family's nuclear in terms of like it's been fucking exploded but thank you jeff foxworthy jesus christ jimmy you are really saying it doesn't sound like the you've heard what what are you talking about i'll just i'll just take that fruit off the ground anybody ever said that before that that is mislabeled it's certainly mislabeled yeah i think that's a pretty i've never heard of that before in my life but it is certainly mislabeled uh but if you don't have a nuclear family then

you have to go to several thanksgivings anyway yes i have to go to shit loads of i had to go to fucking multiple when i was a kid you had to go to your dadsgivings anyway. Yes. I have to go to shit loads of them. I had to go to fucking multiple when I was a kid. You had to go to your dads and your moms and this one and take you over here and they might go to two. Cut my family out of my life now I go to none. It's so great. I hate it. Thanksgiving's the fucking worst. I don't like any of the food sucks anyway so what do you want. So

they he said they went back there for meal two. God what a mess. So he said they ate dinner there for meal two. God, what a mess. So he said they ate dinner. Ruth, Susan, and Edward, they all ate Thanksgiving dinner again. And he said after that, he went outside to fuck around with his car. So he needed to recharge his battery, which if you just got home from somewhere, why would you need to recharge your battery? It's been charging as you drove. But I don't know what kind of weird electrical problems this car has so okay yeah i'm not gonna fucking

snipe at that so he said he's dicking around with his car outside in the dark on thanksgiving in the cold yeah which is weird anyway and he hears screaming and yelling in the house so we know who's doing that obviously there's only one source possible there so he said he went in and he heard crying in the bedroom and again he said okay so he goes into the bedroom and he saw ruth leaning against the wall leaning and he said quote her eyes were closed and she appeared dead she had blood on her face leaning against the wall leaning against the wall um and he she said he said susan was crying and kneeling between the bed and the wall she was like in a little fetal position between the bed and the wall crying so he said he walked over to her to susan and took a hammer out

of her hand and threw it on the floor so he took a hammer away from her threw it on the floor he said he brought susan into the kitchen and asked her what the fuck happened, which is a fair question. I would say you're holding the hammer. Your mom looks dead and she's bloody. What's up? What's the deal here? So he asked her what happened. She said, according to him, quote, it was an accident and she was afraid of going to jail.

Again, I've never hit anyone in the head with a hammer by accident. That's a pretty fucking, it's a pretty big accident, I would say. He said then that he went into the living room and Susan followed. But then he heard more crying. And he heard Susan say, quote, she won't die. She won't die. A common problem. I mean, who hasn't had that problem? So she won't die. She won't die she won't die a common problem i mean who hasn't had that problem so she won't die she

won't die then he says that at that point susan grabbed a knife and ran into the kitchen where she said that ruth had crawled from her hammer blow she was still a little loopy but crawling she said he said at that point susan ran up behind ruth and stabbed her in the back, she was still a little loopy, but crawling, he said at that point, Susan ran up behind Ruth and stabbed her in the back as she was on the floor. Okay. Then he says that Susan handed him another knife

because she left the knife in her back and her mom fell down. She got a bigger knife, handed it to him, and said, quote, if you love me me you'll do it okay so he said quote i stabbed her and i ran outside and vomited yeah that's his that's his claim so yeah he's uh ran outside and vomited um yeah um that's wow um that's fucking crazy

uh she was saying that's his story that's his story he's saying that she was saying that you know she loved me and she was scared and when you help me and all this type of shit so he said that um uh this was jesus christ the whole thing she won't die she won't die and he was just very kind of made him a little. He didn't understand what was happening. And she said she won't die. She won't fall. She said that Susan got nervous and didn't know what to do. And he said he stood there with the knife for a minute after she handed it to him. But she kept like nudging him going like, come on, if you love me, you'll do it.

Do that. And so he said, I just stuck a knife in her back and ran outside and vomited. I just did it. I had my eyes closed. I didn't want to do it. I was just scared, disgusted, whatever it was. I just stuck it in and ran outside and vomited. So that's his story.

So he's culpable for murder now, just so you know. Yeah, I did stab her. I stabbed her. But I mean, you know, I was, you know how it is. Here's the story of what happened. Perfectly innocent. Tryptophan is a bitch. Yeah. I mean. Really fuck, I was... Here's the story of what happened. Perfectly innocent. Tryptophan is a bitch. Yeah.

Really fucks with your brain. How many times have you eaten two helpings of stovetop? You know how fucking tired you get? How murdery you get? It's so weird. You start to get like... You start to see visions of murder. Next thing you know, it starts seeming like a good idea.

Yeah. It's a weird thing. Someone hands you a knife, you use it. You eat canned gravy twice in a night. You're going to fucking kill somebody. I think maybe the cranberries had some aluminum poisoning from the can, I think. Maybe it was rust. You know how they're dented, you're not supposed to eat them or whatever.

I think maybe some air got in there. I'm not sure what happened. So he said then after that, after he vomited for a while, just had some fun vomiting, fun with vomits, he said he went back into the house and heard noises in the bedroom at that point. So he said he went in and he found Susan pulling the drawers out and just tearing shit apart, pulling drawers out, throwing things everywhere. He said then she did the same thing in the living room. And he said, quote, a little after that, I went outside and sat in the car. Okay. He said at that point, Susan came out and told him, can you do me a favor? You need to go and break the back door and make it look like a burglar broke in. Can you do that for me? Just can you kick the back door in? Okay. That's How long after all this is he talking to the cops?

Like right now? Oh, this is like, yeah. When they start to get like, oh, what's going on here? This doesn't look right. They go, hey, well, let's go down to the station and talk about it. We got to do the crime scene and all that. So we'll take you down to the station. And this is his story immediately.

He spills the whole thing. This is exactly. Yeah. He comes out with exactly all of this instantly. It's Thanksgiving night. My girlfriend and I murdered her mom. We framed it to look like a robbery. What now?

That's it. He just spills it. There's no, not even a hesitation. They really don't have to ask him much. They go, what happened? He's like, well, about nine o'clock this morning. And then he just went from the fucking the whole time. That's it doesn't matter and here's what's my day see you tomorrow and i had two helpings of the stovetop and i had this we came home i'll tell you what

the white meat was a bit dry but the dark was mighty fine still juicy i realize it's in his new jersey but everybody gets the panhandle accent that's how it works in the show i'm gonna go on hope what what does he expect is going to happen here? Well, after that, was he just like rubbing the stomach? Well, all right. It's about time we... I'm hungry. I threw up a lot tonight.

Yeah. Still a little munchy. Any more pie left? Did you get blood on the pie? Because I'm real hungry. There's no blood on the pie. I'd really like to have a piece. So he said a little after that,

I went out and sat in the car, um, break the door. He said, I told her I did it, but she didn't believe me. So he had to go show her that he did it. Cause I guess he did it earlier.

The two of them then drove to Teaneck to hang out with their friends to establish an alibi. They did it on purpose. They said, well, we got to go hang out. We can't just hang out here. We got to go somewhere so it looks like we're not here. You know what I mean?

Those of them are dangerous. That way we walk in the house and we go, oh, no, mom's been killed. And then we'll go run next door, tell the neighbor so they can see how horrified we are. And then we have alibis and things are set in place and we look good. But instead they got outside the house and then the house uh curse wore off of them and they're like oh my god what happened yeah what happened i don't understand this what where are we why are we both covered in blood why what i don't even remember and they got back in the living room they're like i was standing right here she was over there it all comes back it all

comes right back did did the dad die in the house of liver liver problems also or did he probably died in the hospital huh i think he died in the house oh liver problems also, or did he probably die in the hospital? I think he died in the house, actually. Oh, my God. That was the thing, yeah. So this house is going to take you. I hope. It's going to take you.

I hope they've raised it. No, no, it's there. Oh, my God. It's still there, exactly. They painted it white, at least, now. It's not dark brown anymore like it was back then, but it's there. I saw the Zillow Street view of it. I'm like, oh, God, that's the same house.

It's exactly the same. So we apologize, people in that house, if we're fucking up your value but this is this is public information i'm sorry it's in the newspaper it might be it might be you know what depending on who buys it you're gonna at least have a few of our weirdos stopping to look at it i'll tell you that much right fucking now if you see cars slowing down outside sorry sorry so um. So they returned to the house. And that's when Susan, according to Edward, Susan asked Edward to go inside and call the police. He said he was too scared to go back inside because he didn't want to see the dead body. Yeah. And, you know, the house will take him back over again.

So he said, I'll go to the neighbor's house, call the cops and all that sort of shit. So that's his story here. He she was crying, saying it's an accident. She didn't want to go to jail. She said she'd never see me again. And she loved me. And if I loved her, I'd stab her mother and make it look like multiple burglars kept breaking in. And, you know, he just said, I'm trying to gather my thoughts and she's trying to kill her mom.

And you know how it goes on Thanksgiving. It's just very amazing. It's very hectic with the family. So I love this quote here. I don't love it. It's horrible. But he said, I saw Susan stab her mother in the back and I snuck the knife. I just stuck the knife in her back.

I ran outside and vomited. That's what he says. That's all I could just stuck it in her back in a very fortuitous location because you hit a fucking organ too i just stuck it in her back as wild like that sounds like it's i all i did was i just stole some gum i didn't rob the store i stole a pack of trident but i swear i didn't hold up the cash register like you killed the lady whether you just stuck it in or you or you i really gave it a good shot and stabbed her it's still the same shit you did the same exact thing right the uh his attorney now because he

gets attorney an attorney pretty quick his attorney said my investigation indicates quite uh uh quite the contrary talking about the eyewitness they were talking about what susan's later gonna say uh basically saying that she's the one who said to fabricate the robbery so if she says he did it it's bullshit and all this he says he did a big investigation so he's ready to he's ready to check it out now susan at first they get her in there the same night that he's going oh yeah this is what happened a b and c she gets in there and won't give a statement at first. First, she won't say shit, which she's the daughter of a police detective.

So anybody who's in the family of a police detective knows to never say shit to shit. Mafia and police detectives' families. How many times has he told her, don't say a word? I don't care if you get pulled over for speeding. Here's my license, and don't say another goddamn thing unless I got my lawyer with me. So that's what any cop that gets busted for anything never says a motherfucking word because they know better. So then she says, OK, I'll talk. But gives several versions of I didn't do anything and neither did anybody else.

Several versions of I came home. She was there. One version. She was several versions of i came home she was there one version she was somewhere else and then came home another version she was with her friends and she came home another version uh she was home earlier than left for a little she kept she had like four different versions of what happened of how she found her mother not really good then she says look look i'm very confused i'm very upset i found my mother you saw me i was hysterical you know i've had a lot going on in me i'm belly full of turkey i just really need to i really need to the ogrotten is hurting me right now i really need to reset extra cheese so she

says i will talk to you if on one condition you allow me to speak with my father first so my lawyer my father my lawyer and she's not a minor so this they don't have to but they say you'll talk and she says i'll tell you everything i know if you let me talk to my dad first so they said all right fine so they let her talk to her dad then she comes back and says i'm ready to give a statement now which you know her dad has now told her this stuff so she says um the incident began when she and her mother started arguing over telephone bills okay which is a okay uh then she said that Ruth started, quote, throwing little things at her. Okay. Throwing little, I don't know what little things.

The turkey, shit like that. Yeah, I have no fucking clue what's going on. Just leftover potato peels, maybe whole pies. We don't know. But this lady's deaf. That's what I mean. She's deaf and doesn't speak. So this argument is, I don't know if she came and showed her the...

It's one side. I mean, she came, shows her the telephone bill, points to it, what the fuck is this? And then she says, fuck you, mom. And then her mom starts throwing shit at her. I don't know how this argument breaks down exactly. You're arguing with somebody that can't... That's a very quiet fight. And also, take whatever mom does, whatever gestures.

Then when she turns around be like go fuck yourself mom who cares you know what i mean yeah this is a woman you can scream here if she turns her back you can say whatever you want anything she turns around you'll be like you're my mother the fucking bitch you fucking bitch then she turns around and she's like standing there with her arms crossed no one knows the way this is so simple it's a very simple thing yes you you can get say everything you want and still not have to argue it's perfect she's literally never had her mom go would you just say when you say something to your breath and you're like i didn't think you'd hear that they she literally didn't hear it didn't hear shit can i make one point also

yeah that i don't know what the the exact was between Walter and Phyllis when Walter killed Phyllis, but Walter stabbed his wife a whole bunch of times, then stabbed himself, which in some way, shape, or form, justified or not, I'm sure not, but whatever, that relationship drove him to the point of, I'll stab you and me. That's a lot of crazy breaking point so the next he was single until he found a woman who doesn't hear or speak right exactly but with the same name good point yeah if i could get her and she just wouldn't talk or fucking say a word just fucking i could say whatever i want and then she won't say shit back i think this could work that's

what he said i'll bet i'd be with her till i died i'll be with her till my last breath in the living room and i'll bring her to my house to make sure that she has her last breath there as well this is fucking crazy man unreal um so yeah she said that mom's throwing shit at me, little things. Yeah. So her and Edward went into their bedroom, which in the house. So then she said Ruth followed her. Nineteen. Yeah, 19 with her boyfriend has lived there since before they were legal of legal age. It's not good. And not cool.

So either way, Ruth follows her in there because she has to because she can't yell to her from across the house. So they're acting like that's aggressive. But if she wants to speak still, that's the only way she can communicate with you is to follow you. So this is what Susan said. Quote, she came in and she was still yelling and screaming. OK, well, I don't buy your story right now. I'm already out. You're guilty.

Yeah. Whatever noises she was making, it's nothing that insulting because you can't fucking even make out what it is. Right. Because she doesn't speak. So I'm not making fun of her. This is just a bullshit. That's a terrible excuse. My favorite cousin, second favorite, because Shannon buys us computers and shit.

She's the best. She's the best. She's the best. But my cousin's deaf, and his father died. And when they broke him the news in the hospital that he was dead, I'll never forget that noise as long as I live. Yes. And that's the noise that she was probably, it's the frustration that deaf people can't, and they can't speak either. So the noise that they make, it is blood curdling when a deaf person is hurt it is so it's heartbreaking what it isn't is offensive no it's not it is it is the most heartbreaking thing in the world i would not

want to argue with my mom if she was deaf they can't offend you with what they're saying like there's nothing where you'd be like that's it no now you've crossed the line yeah it is once no oh it is she didn't call her a strumpet or something like there is no it's sincerely more soul-crushing noise in the world and it hurts so bad so she's still yelling and screaming quote she walked to the closet and i saw eddie's hand and she fell and she screamed and i tried and tried to get up and I ran out. So her story is she just turned around and Eddie must have fucking clocked her with the hammer because she fell down and she was like, oh, no, and ran away. She was so whatever. So then she said Edward told her to start ransacking the house, start ripping it up.

After that, she said that, you know, he told her we're going to Teaneck and we're going to hang out with our friends and establish a fucking alibi. So she said he helped her out to the car because she was a wreck. You know, her mom was all fucked up. And then when they returned, he kicked in the back door in an attempt to make it look like there was an intruder. You know what I mean? Yeah. She said, quote, I kept saying i wanted to go back in the house but he said no no we're going to t-neck we're getting out of friends yeah getting out of

here cars charged now it's all charged up god damn it they drive a tesla yeah i've had it plugged in all night so she said that they drove to t-neck. They discussed the alibi, met with a few friends, returned to the house. And she said that Zakarian at that point told her that her mother wasn't breathing. So she's good and dead. Now we can go to the neighbor's house and call the cops. We left, gave her time to die. It's all good now. So that's her story.

Of course, she gave multiple conflicting reports, though. But that's her story. Of course, she gave multiple conflicting reports, though, but that's her final. OK, I talked to my dad. Here's my statement. That's her statement. OK, so the least inculpatory of anything she could have said. Meanwhile, I did not. So inculpatory. Of him, but not her.

She's almost a victim he's bossing her around stabbing people hitting people with a hammer dragging her to a car fucking you know she's a fragile in her story she's this shell-shocked thing that doesn't saw a tragedy and ran out of the room and then her boyfriend's ransacking the house and she's so, oh, you know what I mean? And she didn't even know what was happening. She's so scared of him with knives and hammers. That's her story. What did the friends in Teaneck have to say about her behavior there?

She was fine. Like she said that we just came from dinner. She's a hell of an actress, Jimmy. In addition to being a beauty school participant, she's also a Broadway actress. She's amazing. You should see her fucking belt out memories it's amazing a dead deaf mute woman lying on a kitchen floor somewhere that's terrible jesus christ and they said well why did you give conflicting accounts and she said well

you didn't let me talk to my dad which i don't know how your dad could get your memory better but um yeah they said well why didn't you go for help for your mother rather than going to Teaneck to establish an alibi with your friends? Like, what the fuck is that about? And she said, quote, every time I went toward her, Eddie would stop me. The blood of then her lawyer said, quote, this is amazing. Her lawyer said the blood of Ruth Jacobus is on the person who murdered her. It wasn't Susan.

Some lab tests indicated that Eddie's jeans and sneakers had some blood on them. And there was some blood on her, too. So, you know, but still, that's blood from being dragged through the blood. I mean, you know, not her fault, obviously. But his hyperbole is shot to fuck. So here's the state's theory okay the state has to take these two completely contradictory things i mean neither one of these are the same it's the complete opposite statement you know he makes her

culpable she makes him culpable and now we've got to figure out what's what's really happening at least in her his story they're both culpable yeah oh for sure yeah they're both in a lot of trouble in his story in her story i'm an innocent fairy princess and i've just been completely taken on by the troll prince and he's gonna fucking make me murder my mom and then drag me under the bridge and marry him like that's what's going on here it's a very different story this is the worst shrek story of all time it's a bad one i realize that's why i don't work for pixar before the rewrite and john lincoln got involved It's a very different story. This is the worst Shrek story of all time. It's a bad one, I realize. That's why I don't work for Pixar. This is before the rewrite and John Lithgow got involved.

Could you imagine if I made kids movies? They'd all have murder and stabbings and shit. They'd be like, wow, I thought Bambi was brutal. This is rough. It's the fourth character to die. It'd be like Pulp Fiction. Most of the characters just die. I figured he'd make it.

I liked him. That's the Disney movie I want. Yeah, that's me too. I would love that. That's a good Disney. You know what, Jimmy? Let's write a Disney movie. Yeah, let's write a Disney movie where like the fish that all the kids are riding on in Nemo gets like caught.

And then they're just like stranded in the open water. And then shit just starts eating all of them. They don't even think about it. They just take it and throw it right in the reservoir thing in their boat. Just two seconds. They just pop the hook off, toss them in there, and that's it. Meanwhile, seals are just eating all of Nemo's friends. Just chomping them.

It's a bloodbath. Nemo's scared shitless. Show why Nemo really should be scared to go out. Why the father should be paranoid. You know how many of us get fucking eaten? Let's make this shit real. It crazy out there there's so much murder you it's all murder so that's what we're gonna write a murderous deep ocean kid story killing nemo it's gonna be called

kill dory and it's gonna be dory seeking revenge it's gonna be hunting nemo you do like a kill bill thing but with dory instead of uma thurman she's like Kill Dory, and it's going to be Dory seeking revenge. Hunting Nemo. Yeah, hunting Nemo. Hunting. You do like a Kill Bill thing, but with Dory instead of Uma Thurman. She's like, but she can't remember what she's got, who she's trying to kill all the time. She's murdered everything, but she can't remember any of it. No. She keeps trying to murder the same people she's already murdered.

Every time she goes for revenge, she finds out, and she's like, oh, God, thank God he's dead. I'm going to fucking kill him. And it just keeps. That's the movie. You could make 10 of those. It's a murderous dory. Murderous dory. But still really upbeat and friendly.

Finally, the Ellen DeGeneres character is perfect. Seeking vengeance. Yeah, exactly. Finally, it works. A vicious asshole. We say that. The funny thing is, all the Ellen shit, and people still like Ellen, or people don't like Ellen, or whatever the fuck.

She's a vicious asshole. In show business, it wasn't known publicly, but in show business, it was known for 15 years that Ellen was the meanest person in the show. Like, no one doesn't say that. Right. No one doesn't say that. She's known as like a nasty person. But just mean just to be mean.

Like, everybody said that about her for years. Maybe we make the cartoon just because of that. Maybe we do that. That'd be great. I like it. A parody. This is good. Call the agents to get a hold of her and see if she'll voice it.

Maybe she will. You know what? Maybe she's looking to go into something more edgy. You know what I'm saying? I mean, she's been doing all this other shit. Maybe she wants to get a little bit edgy. Get a little more of an adult audience. You know what I'm saying?

A lot of times when these people get caught in a scandal, they just like to tell their side of the story and why they're a vicious asshole. let's do it let's go ellen let's work that shit so now the state's theory of the murder is that they think based on the the the force of the knife wounds and the force of the hammer blows, they feel like the knife in the heart was delivered by Susan and the knife wound that sliced the liver was delivered by Eddie. That's the state's theory based on how hard they were done. Size and strength. size and strength and they also their theory is that she did the head bashing as well because um it doesn't seem like he was tentative with the knife so they were kind of thinking why would he be tentative with the hammer he seems to be going at it full bore with his stab where she might it's just might be lack of strength as far as given those lack of size she

only weighs like 115 pounds or something she's a very she's small so um she is charged with obstructing justice at first just to hold her they do that often with things and then they'll they get a guy with a murder weapon they just charge him for the gun for a second before they get all their shit together before they charge a murder. She's being held in the Bergen County Jail for $25,000 bail, which is very low, but it should be raised when murder is charged as well. He's being held without bail at this moment in time. Yeah, the prosecutor thinks that,

the prosecutor said that, you know, he thinks it's both people. But the defense here for Susan is saying, no, no, it's only it's only him. My client's totally innocent. This is all bullshit. So they said, quote, they say that after he killed her, he and after he ended up delivering the second knife wound, they ransacked the house, left their friends. They said their efforts

were unsuccessful to secure an alibi because they didn't believe them. They said that their stories under questioning didn't add up, quote, and we charged them, which there you go. His adds up a lot.

It really does. I mean, we killed them. OK, well, that's at least enough to charge both of you so he also said the prosecutor that the couple and ruth had quote a stormy a something of a stormy relationship for some time known by their friends yeah yeah obviously for what's you can't live with that it's just that's hard that's hard it's gonna be weird you want to act like an adult. She doesn't want you to act like an adult.

You're at an age that you're still in the house. You don't get to be crazy adults and just fuck everywhere. And you want to. Oh, that's the other thing. We don't know what kind of weird fucking was happening or anything like that. I mean, she couldn't hear it, but you know what I mean? There was at least that. It could be loud as shit at night.

Oh, yeah. As long as the picture frames weren't rocking and knocking on the walls. As long as you didn't see things happening. Fuck, man. So also the prosecutor found another thing that's possible motive, saying that Ruth Jacobus, seven months before she died, had $49,500 in the bank, which is a good amount of money, especially for 1984. And after her death, they found that she only had $16,000 left, which made no sense because she didn't. If you look at her banking before that, there was no like times of her draining her bank account. She's saving, not spending.

So it doesn't make any sense. her bank account right she's saving not spending so it makes doesn't make any sense they also said that susan always took her mother to the bank at multiple times and would help communicate for her yes and that ruth had recently loaned uh ed zakarian money to buy a car as well so that's a thing and um yeah so there you go he also said that and also ed said the same thing eddie said that in february of 1984 he personally drove in the car that she loaned him money to buy uh drove ruth and susan to a hack and sack attorney's office where Jacobus made out a will making Susan her sole beneficiary even though she has three other children oh boy in the will it specifically says I intentionally do not give anything to these children blah blah blah because otherwise it's a you can challenge it saying that whatever she forgot or something but here you she's saying

I'm intentionally saying, fuck you. And I'm giving everything to Susan. So that's just in the last few months. And then her bank account's been draining and now she's dead. So the charges here, they end up charging them both with murder. Both of them. Prosecutor's office has not decided whether to seek the death penalty or not. Not at this moment.

It's on the table, but no idea if we're going to go after it. Yeah. They're arguing for high bail for both of them. They said Ed Zakarian didn't live with his parents. He has no wife or children, nothing to prevent him from fleeing if he was released, other than the fact that he's a 19-year-old and he's a moron and where's he going to go. Outside of that, there's nothing to keep him here. Also argued he's an encyclopedia salesman so it's not like he has a regular job that we can check his punch card you know make sure he's there nine to five requires him to be on the road

that's scary knocking on strangers doors yes which no thank you that's perfect let's unleash him on the neighborhood so um they said that he'd been living with his girlfriend the his defense says he's only been living there three months but he he had left for like two weeks and came back so there was he's living there on and off for like two years but for the last three months he's been living there solid they said he could easily go back and live with his parents his parents by the way who intend to stand by him and help him through this yeah he's a good kid from a good family the attorney describes ed zakarian saying he grew up in teaneck as a quote a nice boy he's a nice boy yeah oh he's a nice fucking boy this kid look at him look at

his shiny smile on his face he's got no prior criminal record. Look, he's a fucking sparkling, beautiful. He's a clean kid and he pulled this shit off? Eddie, smile for me. Look at his fucking pearly whites. Look at his shit. He wore braces for two and a half years so he could look like this for you fucking people. That's the kind of good family he's got over here.

So he said his father, Thomas, he's a fucking architect, this guy. He's a fucking architect. He comes from a good family he stood with his with his son in the courtroom and everything and his mother said quote I am sure my son is innocent as sure as I'm standing here uh he said quote I know I know my son he would never do such a thing so they said well all right charges dismissed his mom his mom said he's a good kid we're gonna believe her yeah who knows him better than his mom right an architecture firm is is uh

vouching for him so clearly they said they'd vouch personal so i mean we're gonna take their word for it it's on you though if you're wrong tell me this why doesn't he live with you then if he's such a good goddamn kid because he really wants to keep fucking this girl in a loud fashion and you guys can hear me doing that they have loud sex so we had to kick him out that place worked perfect for him a fucking amazing so he uh they charge he's charged uh they charge him both of them with one count of murder, four counts of hindering the apprehension of themselves and each other, and one count each of tampering with evidence of a homicide for tearing apart the house. So they said, besides altering the crime scene, they're accused of giving false information to law enforcement officers by saying they weren't home at the time of the murder. They weren't home at the time of the murder.

And they must be tried separately because the statements they gave to police can in court can only be in court only against themselves, not not the other. So the way there's a weird ruling about how they can do their shit. So if they're together, if they try them together, then they can only use the statements against themselves because they're up. They're the same defense. But if they try them separately, then they can use each of their statements against each other you can have it to where he says she did it she says he did it and you can say you can have those outcomes both come out at the same time okay you could have her trial come out she solely did it and his trial come out he solely did it and that would be okay if you but you can't have that if they're together obviously because that doesn't make logical sense but if they're separate you can do

that okay you can convict two people all right so they're not doing them together no i just said that they're trying them separately otherwise they couldn't do that so i see his uh yeah his attorney here he uh he says that his client wasn't there he He doesn't know. He just helped her cover up the crime. He said for her, you know, he did it for her. He said, quote,

he was a, he was a young, ingenious boy who was in love. That's what his attorney said. Now he's an ingenious. Wow. Jesus Christ. That's ballsy.

He sells the fucking encyclopedia. The kid's a prodigy for Christ's sake. Does he know every page of the encyclopedia? Is's a prodigy for christ's sake you know every page of the encyclopedia is that why he memorized he memorized and that's how he sells them if you turn to page 2042 you'll find swear to god just take anything in the c slash d volume point to it i'll tell i'll tell you exactly what it fucking says. I swear. Dodo extinct bird from the 17th. So she he also says that he was very fond of her as well. He's like, I didn't even dislike her.

He was very fond of her quote. He had no motive to commit murder. He certainly wasn't the beneficiary of any insurance policy like some people involved in this case. Yeah. Oh, by the way, she's not only the sole heir to all of her shit her property her stock and things like that she's also a beneficiary of an insurance policy susan so she's got a lot of reasons to do that her attorney though robert gallantucci oh robbie gals uh he said that listen, my client took a polygraph test. Okay?

It's over with. Right there. She took a polygraph. She passed the polygraph. And she passed. She passed, which, I mean, that means literally nothing. She's got a comp for a dad. That's what I'm saying.

So it literally means nothing, a polygraph test either way. So he said, quote, my client was innocent at the time of the offense, innocent when she went to court for bail, innocent when Luciana, that's the other lawyer's client, acknowledged some kind of responsibility, will be innocent going to trial, and will be innocent when the verdict comes in. Suck my balls, I believe. They cut that part off though he is babe ruth calling the shot yeah he is man he says that listen right now she's doing great she's uh you let her out she's gonna be all right she said the kid there was an argument probably

we think this killing happened spontaneously you know nobody knew it was gonna happen the guy did it and she just didn't know what to do so she tried to help her boyfriend out by covering it up. Okay. Come on, help the kid out. She said, he said, quote, it was just something that happened that tragically occurred. There's no premeditation or any of that nonsense. Any of that nonsense. Don't, don't even bring that up. Premeditate. None of that nonsense there. you got to use that word more often nonsense he's the lawyer no no you mean zakarian well we'll talk about it here um he said that she witnessed it she had nothing she had this gal and tucci said quote she never handled a weapon and she certainly didn't murder her mother okay yeah never mind that shit here so uh by the way he also

said they searched around they didn't find any battery charging equipment around so well how is he doing that and they couldn't find any vomit so where was he puking oh so we don't know it with him i think he put it right in his pocket he scooped it up into a ziploc bag and took it with him he said i'm taking my leftovers with me put them in some tinfoil put them in the truck put them to make a swan out of this and then i'm gonna go home all right so january of 87 all right here we go this is two months later it comes out at this moment that susan is two months pregnant you betcha she's two fucking months pregnant. God damn it. Which is wild.

Not his baby, by the way. Oh, what? This happened after she was in between the murder and the full jail experience, and then she gets let out on bail. Holy shit. Because her original bail was $25,000. Her dad put that up, got got her out and then she went and got knocked up real quick holy fuck and then ended up getting charged with murder and getting put

back in and they had to redo her bail and then she missed her period yeah talk about so much has happened in the last couple months the holidays are so stressful aren't they you kill your mother you're charged with murder you get knocked up you lose your first boyfriend you find another one there's a lot going on 1985 is the worst it's wild man so she's wearing a uh they're talking about the in court she's wearing a pink and gray dress uh the pale-faced susan mager entered a plea of innocent before Judge Charles DeGese of State Superior Court in Hackensack. Now, her lawyer here said that her twenty five thousand dollar bail was posted within one hour of her arraignment for this, by the way. She was so she's out. I need to get out. Yeah. She's like, I got to get knocked up quick. Maybe that'll make me more,

you know, whatever. Well, she is because her lawyer says that's fair. This is how her lawyer argued for this quote. She's pregnant, judge. She's not going to run. Okay. She's pushing going to live on the run being pregnant. She can't have her. No.

And her father, who's a police detective, personally assured the court that his daughter would show up in court when required and that she would be living with him and he'd be keeping an eye on her so um he accompanied her to the hearing so the judge agreed even though there's a murder charge being added to not raise the bail from 25 000 and to let her stay out of jail holy shit she's facing 26 and a half years in prison she's facing 26 and a half years in prison later on uh with the with the of those are all the charges besides murder and then they add murder to it yeah so there's all of that shit so it's a lot man um the lawyer for her said that she's a first-time offender quote there's a presumption of non-incarceration it's's murder. There is no presumption. I assume if I kill someone, I'm probably going to spend at least some time in jail, at least a waiting trial, even if I get out.

OJ spent a fucking year in jail, and he's a millionaire. So you kill people, generally you spend a little time in jail. There's generally no presumption of non-incarceration. I've never heard that shit before. So the father was happy. They were having a tearful reunion, hugging each other and everything like that. Her lawyer said he was thrilled with it. The judge said the bail, and explaining this because people were like, well, how do you do this?

How do you justify this? The judge said the bail is not necessarily determined by charges, but by the circumstances surrounding each defendant. So he ordered that she live at home with her father. And he she the judge said, if you can't do that, ma'am, I'm going to have your bail increased. So they always say that they they'll let people out on bail if they have a history of showing up for court. That's the thing. So you'll see a lot. Oh, yeah.

You'll see a lot of times when people get horrible crimes and they get put in jail, but they get bail because they have a history of not show of showing up for court. If you have a history of not showing up for court, that's when they'll fuck you on the bail. Really, really, really bad. But generally, it's severe. And you've got lots to run. Generally, it's that's the thing. you're in they weigh that what's your interest of running to money if you have you know but your parents house on the fucking line maybe you won't run but if you don't you might take off with a murder charge but if you're you know if you have a racketeering charge and you always show up for court they let you out because you're going to

show up that's how they do it so um she also is forbidden from visiting her current boyfriend who lives in brooklyn no visiting him uh but the lawyer said they got to be able to visit they're planning on getting married they got a kid on the way it's a beautiful fucking love story irana what are you talking about it's for the children what are are we doing here? They get married. Oh, this is pretty. They got a whole, it's a June bride. She's all bland. There's flowers everywhere.

Brooklyn. Brooklyn. So the prosecutor said he wanted to object to the different bails. He said the courts are dedicated to the proposition of equal justice under the law for men and women, including pregnant women. This is Zakarian's lawyer. If women want equality with men, their bail should be equal, too. That's what he said. So the judge refused to increase the bail for her and wouldn't decrease the bail for him.

What the fuck, man? Which is crazy. Yeah, the lawyer said pregnant women are no more trustworthy than men that's a great quote this lawyer pregnant women are no more true you knock them up they just they're not trustworthy anymore i saw you with your thumb it all goes out the window all the the integrity. Write the fuck out. It's crazy. It's super weird. It's really weird. You start filling those insides up with baby.

There's no room for integrity in there. You know what I mean? We inject the lack of integrity is what it is. Pretty soon they're no better than a man. It takes until that second bar on the pee stick. And then they're just no more no more trustworthy than a guy what i do i'm with a woman if she takes a test comes back pregnant i read i immediately punch her in the mouth just to show what it's like to be a guy because now she's a guy no more

trustworthy say and we're gonna fuck me over pal i know you are he makes it sound like regular women are plenty trustworthy way more trustworthy men but yeah you knock them up and forget about it there it's all out the window those pee sticks are just integrity meters that's what they're called two things two things that don't go with pregnant women cat litter and integrity you can't have either one of them around the house it just isn't gonna work. Looks like you tested negative for integrity right here. Oh, there we go. It's two stripes for a baby.

So congratulations. One stripe for integrity, though. So sorry. We're going to put you in the pokey. So, yeah, he said a pregnant woman can flee the jurisdiction as well as a woman who is not pregnant. Which, I mean, yeah, she's not on bed rest. She's like four months pregnant or something. So they said that the bail decision, the judge said that the bail decision was partly based

on the pregnancy. But then he said later on, he considered it a medical risk, a medical condition that reduces the risk. She'll flee. Quote, where does a woman six months pregnant run to anywhere? There's hospitals literally everywhere. They can run anywhere. Where would they? That's the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life he thinks only obstetricians are in new jersey that's it i mean if she doesn't go to a doctor then what's gonna

happen it's not like the it'll stay in there forever until she explodes that's what happens the babies they don't come out what's he gonna do about her prenatals and shit? If you're not at home, they don't come out. So now they finally they've reduced hers. Like I said, now they're asking for his to be twenty five thousand dollars as well. They argue. His lawyer says, I've never had a murder case before you where the bail was twenty five thousand dollars, he says to the judge. So he's like, clearly you're giving an advantage there. Help my client out with this advantage uh it's very important the scales of justice be evenly balanced at this point in the case he says it's crazy and then he says i think uh then they ended

up reducing his bail to 75 000 which his parents then put up and he gets out so he says i think the judge acted fairly and did the proper thing. I'm satisfied with the circumstances. That's what the, his lawyer says in the trial of the murder. Can they bring up that the, that the bail was set at a certain level? Meaning this person initially, they didn't see this person as, as a, you know, do you know what I mean? Can they be used that as like evidence of something?

I don't know if you can use that as evidence. I don't know who that would benefit either though because that could go either way true you wouldn't probably want her to seem like she was getting special treatment right and you wouldn't want him to look more guilty if you're his lawyer either so that's my point like yeah can the prosecution be like clearly he's a dangerous man and the judge in his arraignment assumed so and gave him no bail. You know what I mean? Can I say that? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I think it's just assumed. Yeah, because I guess, I mean, if they're in jail the whole time, the jury knows they're in jail. They've seen him brought in by a bailiff with their fucking handcuffs sometimes. In orange outfits.

That doesn't look good. No. Well, usually for trials, they're allowed to have clothes. Otherwise, you look like a criminal. It's a tough, tough position at trial. They didn't let the Golden State Killer put some clothes on. That fucking guy was in an orange suit, handcuffed to a fucking wheelchair.

He looked pretty fucking bad. They were like, fuck you, dude. Some states, they don't let you have that provision. I think that's kind of important to let someone look like a human being in court because that way you can judge them as a human being not as a prisoner it's just look it just looks worse if you're in a jail outfit you just look more guilty it's just one of those things as a jury and immediately if you saw a guy in an orange jumpsuit handcuffed to a fucking wheelchair would you give any leniency i mean if if you feel little guilt about uh i mean he's gonna die anyway, right?

I want to see if he can walk around, too. Yeah. I'd say somebody try to dump him out and see what he does. Bailiff, can you kick that over real quick? Because, I mean, if he does fall and he can't get back up, I don't really care. He killed a bunch of women, so he can go find guys. He can go fuck himself, honestly. But if he, like, pops up like you motherfucker, then we know he's faking.

So either way, I feel like we're getting something out of it. He just lays on the floor and moans. Don't you kind of feel like a dick? No, not really. Not really. Not on those charges. Scoop his ass back up, put him in the chair, and let's convict him and send him wherever the fuck we're sending him to sit in a fucking room and rot for the next 10 years. But if I'm on that jury hearing all those horrible things and seeing the man looking like that, that's the easiest guilty verdict I've ever given.

It's really weird when we bust people way past the time when they did stuff. Because you look at them then and you're like, this is pathetic. This dude couldn't pull this off now. Not so much like, if they're still physically capable. When they got BTK, he was like plotting more at the time. He was still he was very capable. He was in his 50s. Still very, very dangerous.

Yeah, that's what I mean. But like when they get like like when they recently there was like a 98 year old Nazi secretary. Yeah. And they were like, well, yeah, we need to get her in custody. And it's like, really? You know, can't we just go, she's fucking bad. Just have a person posted outside of her house going, she's a fucking Nazi twat, this one.

Nazi twat, Nazi twat. When she leaves to go to the shop, you just yell out, Nazi twat, everybody, and point at her. With a shame bell. A shame bell and a sandwich board saying Nazi twat

pointing to her from both sides just fall around yeah i don't want to pay for her medical fucking care in a prison somewhere no that's on you nazi you pay for your own fucking wheelchair they did that in america right that wasn't even in germany i don't i think it i think it was in germany or so i don't remember but there was another guy recently that was in new york just reading about that happened in italy they got brought a guy back to italy for his not for his war crimes in italy and he was like he's like 102 or something and i'm like he doesn't even know where the fuck he is and these were literally war crimes that they were doing to my family who was there at the time so trust me that i i can speak on this shit and it's like my you asked my

grandmother what do you want to do with that guy she'd go she'd wave it off what the fuck do i care what are we gonna do now i'm 100 he's 100 what is the matter at this point so see who wins the end of this i don't know i'll kick him in the balls i don't know i mean the guy if you're 102 that's that's punishment that might kill him who knows just have just shame him have everyone yell bad shit at him and have people just go you fucking scumbag whenever he walks out of his house have little kids throw like berries and shit at him when he leaves like ostracize him that's enough he's not a dangerous person he's an asshole so i think that'd be worse for him and that lady just like took phone calls or shit right i mean i know she dealt with paperwork knowing this is matilda or whatever

well yeah and i think she dealt with paperwork where she knew where things were going and stuff like that but yeah it's not good i mean that's i mean if they caught her when she was 50 let's throw her in the fucking clink but it's just like at this point we're just paying for her final stages of medical care that's all we're doing. We're buying her Metamucil and heart pills. Yeah. Way worse to just yell Nazi twat at her every time she leaves the house. I feel like. Way worse.

Right? That's just universal. You can say that to either, really. That's pretty great. They write that on her Starbucks cup when she goes there. Nazi leaves with her head held low. Nazi twat?

There you go, you fucking Nazi twat. Everyone be mean to Matilda. Have like billboards up. Nazi twat there you go you fucking nazi twat everyone be mean to matilda and have like billboards up nazi twat nazi twat same amount of syllables matilda it's all matilda that's fucking amazing so yeah anyway here we are um the uh yeah he ends up getting his bail reduction he's very very excited here obviously obviously. $75,000 bail. He's out. Now here comes the inheritance.

We find out that he was not lying. He actually did take them to a lawyer's office in February. The lawyer confirmed that, and the lawyer also confirmed the date. It was February 9th, 1984, two months after her husband died, Walter, the murderer, the first murderer, and nine months before she died, they went to the lawyer's office. She left everything she owned to Susan, and all the other children were left out of the will. It says, quote, I specifically chose not to make any gift to Robert Mager or Carol Mager. So you get nothing.

No explanation here. Now, it also says that Susan was named executor of her mother's estate. But at this point, they said because she was trying to get the inheritance now. And they said she's not entitled to inherit the home and about $10,000 in stocks. The judge said the time-honored rule that a wrongdoer may not benefit from his crime uh there they were finding out that this wasn't that's not talking about her by the way who's okay that's talking about that ruth should have never inherited the estate from her husband because he should have never gotten it anything

from his dead first wife that he killed who the so what are they gonna do with this they didn't fucking they never took anything away from him they just allowed him to come out and keep everything that they had joint property with he inherited her side and then when he died she got it all so they're like it wasn't even his to give you so now they're saying that now the daughter can't have that because it wasn't even her mother's to keep because it wasn't the guys who died fucking property either. So was it a fucking probate now? It's going back here. Now, Edward does a little thing here. Edward, rather than fight this, he pleads guilty to a reduced charge of aggravated manslaughter.

Okay. In exchange for testimony against Susan during her trial. She's going full innocent on this bitch here. So, yeah, he said that he murdered her out of love and he pleaded guilty when he did it. He said, I did this out of love and it was stupid and shouldn't have done it. She doesn't love me because she's knocked up by another guy in Brooklyn. Very quickly, too. I was still telling the police what happened and she was going, fucking two stripes, really? God damn it.

Looks like my integrity is out the window. You want to get married? But we'll talk about Edward. Edward's not such a great guy. No? We'll talk about. No, no. Anyway, he says that

yeah he he's he's willing to talk he's willing to do all of this he asked the judge but her lawyer says well if he's going to testify against my client i'd like you to unseal his juvenile record so i can impeach his credibility as a witness they They said, well, why do you want to do that? It's because we find out that his juvenile record, he was actually convicted of threatening to kill his parents. They love him. Yeah, he's actually convicted of it. He would never do anything like this. I believe his mother said, quote unquote, I know my son.

He never would. He just killed me, but no one else's parents. Come on. Jesus Christ. Yeah. quote i know my son he never would he just he'd kill me but no one else's parents come on jesus christ uh yeah so they're asking that to be unsealed and the prosecutor doesn't want to unseal it because it's a juvenile record and blah blah blah and they're saying well we have to be able to discredit him and if we can't discredit anything that happened when he's a juvenile it's like he's only existed for the last year and a half so how the fuck do we impeach only a year and a half of his life when his bad shit happened before that which is a fair point honestly how do you go after someone who has 90 90 percent of

their life sealed yeah that's difficult so they said that he gave numerous false statements to police particularly concerning his juvenile record he did he said that he had no criminal record at first when they talked to him he's never been in trouble remember he's i've never been in trouble before remember that quote he said i said i remember that quote um yeah he said that uh he he said that he'd been arrested twice as a youth quote for running away and once for burglary like as a kid like some prank shit he was doing. So they said the information was very clearly untrue. In fact, Zakarian has a more extensive juvenile record. The defendant should be permitted to inspect Mr. Zakarian's juvenile record

and to have the opportunity to attack his credibility based on his juvenile conviction for a terroristic threat of murder to his parents. Credibility is at the very heart of this case and it's kind of a irrelevant charge is the thing like he killed a parent and he you know lived in the house with who was you know his de facto parent at the time yeah kind of makes sense so threatened to do exactly what he ended up doing exactly uh oh they uncover something else though that's even worse oh my god in the time oh my god jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy no he's pregnant i wish he was pregnant this is so much worse than that jimmy in the time for between him being bailed out yeah for 75 grand and him pleading guilty of aggravated manslaughter

while he was out and living back with his parents in teaneck he impregnated a 13 year old girl oh boy a 13 year old girl he impregnated an eighth grader he's 20 years old yeah he raped an eighth grader jeez christ i i'm reading right from the newspaper says he impregnated a 13 year old t-neck girl and warned her and her mother quote not to make trouble for him okay that's some dangerous shit yeah like to have the balls to do that to a child and then not deny it, but go to their mother without fear that, oh, this woman's going to shoot me in the face with a bazooka. You're going to go to her and say, fucking don't make trouble for me. Yeah, I knocked up your eighth grader. Don't make trouble for me. The lack of shame is staggering.

Holy motherfucking shit. Yeah, they cite this incident as another reason to attack his credibility. I mean, you believe somebody that fucking rapes eighth graders, really? And also tries to cover it up. Oh, the prosecutor's got to be furious. You motherfucker. Yeah, I let this guy out on bail. You ruin everything.

This is ridiculous. And it's all because the prosecutor gave her such low bail they had to lower his bail. That's why it happened. That's why he got out. So the senior investigator, Roger Kane of the Bergen County Prosecut county prosecutor's office he testified in a hearing outside the jury's presence that he interviewed the girl and her mother this young girl they claimed that the girl had consented to have sexual relations with him which is impossible when you're 13 and you have a you're a sophomore in college that's not a consent um but refused to press charges against him and she had told him that she had an abortion

so there's no baby to prove anything and she's not pressing charges so go fuck yourself that's what the girl told her in a true new jersey fashion yeah she uh said i already had an abortion go fuck yourselves leave me alone which uh this poor girl i feel terrible for this fucking girl yeah she did she had an abortion which she's 13 her mother probably said i 13 years old the poor thing uh yeah well i mean you want to no no i'm just saying like that's so traumatic the poor thing there's no through that yeah anything at 13 with a baby you shouldn't have to deal with whether it's getting pregnant 27 though oh my god jesus christ that's insane that's insane so this whole thing is fucking

disgusting so uh her attorney insisted that uh you know susan's innocent and look at this shit my client is an upstanding young lady she's pregnant she passed a lie detector test he's raping eighth graders threatening his parents he's He's a horrible person. Obviously, it's him. And he also says Mr. Zakarian has a noose around his neck when he testifies and he will try to lift that thing off. He says that he's going to try to testify against Susan to buy himself some time off of his sentence. So he said, yeah. Now, the Susan's trial comes up and his lawyer says, you know, listen, there's an argument. I believe it happened spontaneously. I don't think anything was planned because if it was planned, then he would have to know that she was in on the plan because he wasn't going to plan it without her.

They both participated in the cover up. If you plan a murder, you don't plan a murder when somebody else is going to be there. So I'm a murder. You don't plan a murder when somebody else is going to be there. Exactly. Exactly. So the whole thing is very much to her advantage to say that he just snapped and started stabbing away because that's what the house does or whatever. So he says it was just something that happened that tragically occurred. So she never handled a weapon. That's that part. Prosecution says, well, we believe that Susan hit her mother with a hammer five times and then stabbed her in the back when she didn't. And she didn't die from those blows. So after that, she got her boyfriend and said, hey, finish my mom off.

Help me off and then finish me off. You know what I mean? And then they went off to a fucking then they went you know lied to police and all this type of shit there's a delay in the trial here um i guess susan has some sort of surgery she has some sort of weird abdominal condition and uh has to have some kind of this is like a year later she has some sort so then she had like a hernia during the trial yeah she had some abdominal injury that she had to get. Yeah, she had the baby and then the trial. The trial was until like January of 87 or some shit.

So the trial was like two years later after the murder. So that kid was, you know, potty training. She had some sort of abdominal thing. A baby was in there. It was really weird. Still lodged. Some sort of abdominal thing. So she was recuperating from that and uh during that in the press they brought up the inheritance as well um they brought that up and they're saying that you know she's not

even getting the inheritance they're like yeah but she wanted to they're just not giving it to her so that's not like a you know shouldn't get to brag about that. You know, they called a witness here. They bring in the patrolman who produces the bloody hammer that was recovered from the bedroom. And Susan, Susan sobbed and cried in court when she saw it and couldn't look at it and said it was just too, too hard on her. Now, Edward testifies and he says exactly what he said. She said she wouldn't die she's beating her i came over i inflicted the final knife wound next thing i know she's tearing shit up i'm vomiting that's that's what happened the defense here old galantucci he maintains that

susan uh you know played no part in it she just there. She will take the stand in her own defense here. She's going to do that because she's got nothing to fucking hide. They said she, they said Edwards only testifying so we can get a shorter prison term. Don't fucking, you know, don't believe him. They agree.

The prosecutors agreed to drop five charges and allow him to plead to a reduced, reduced charge. So, I mean, what the fuck here? How can you believe this guy? So, uh,

they, they bring up, uh, that they didn't find the battery charger. They're trying to impeach his story. They didn't find vomit. They didn't find the battery charger. Um,

when asked about those two points on redirect here, so carry and set or recross. So Gary and said he never told police that he was recharging the battery or that he had vomited, even though that's in every fucking single report. Absolutely. Said it. Absolutely.

He said it to somebody because it's in every goddamn report. Susan testifies on her own behalf. Okay. She's got a story now and she says that she saw her, her boyfriend at the time, she saw him take aim at her mother with a hammer. She just saw him take aim, which before she said she didn't see it start.

She just saw her mom fall. She said that Edward went into a quote crazed state, a crazed state, just went nuts. She said that a crazed state attacked her with a hammer in the bedroom and then she said that she ran out of the room after she watching her mother fall to the floor she said that he followed her in the living room and shook her around a little bit and said you better get it together and then ran into the kitchen to get a knife and she says i saw a little peeler knife in his hand and then he went

toward the room and uh yeah she says quote i couldn't see him he was just running around in a crazed state he she keeps repeating crazed state that must be a phrase that her lawyers told her is very important yeah yeah it's a he was crazed he was crazed because they're gonna go why did he do this and they because he was crazed look at the house look up the address uh google the address motherfucker okay look up one of your encyclopedia britannicas about this shit so uh he's she said quote uh in a crazed state i was scared every time i would try to get up eddie would tell me stop you stay right there so uh the prosecutors here they're like you sure this didn, are you sure this didn't happen? Are you sure that didn't happen? And she's like, oh, no. I didn't witness it. I didn't play any

role in it. She said that I fell to the floor after he was shaking me, and I just remained there crying and calling out his name, but I couldn't see what he was doing. I just stayed in there. I didn't want to help my mom or anything. I was just like, oh, God, I'll just stay right here while somebody stabs my mom a whole shitload. Okay, so the closings come here, and the prosecutor said that they almost committed the perfect crime because they don't really have any direct evidence against them.

So they said he almost pulled it off. He says, quote, Susan brought him into this blood pact because she knew if they both stuck together, nobody could prove they did it. Of course, they didn't stick together. And that's why we're here today, which I love, which is totally true. If they came home and said no and stayed with those stories of we don't know what you're talking about, they wouldn't have charged them probably. They had no proof. They would have been suspicions. No, there's no fingerprints. Well, there's fingerprints on stuff, but it's shit in the house.

They live there. Yeah, good point. And even the blood on them. Yeah. We walked in. I knelt down. I pulled the knife out. I grabbed the hammer.

I got blood on me from that. We tried to help her. I mean, they couldn't. How do you prove it? There's no way to. So, I mean, I don't know what kind of DNA you could pull out of it now, but then they live there. Yeah, in 85, there's nothing you can do. No, they can say we were there right before and right after, and there's no way to prove that they weren't.

They live there so in the closing arguments the defense said that the jury show or i'm sorry the prosecution said the evidence showed that that susan hit her mother in the head with the hammer five times stabbed her in the back before asking her boyfriend to finish her off finish her off she's the sole beneficiary in the will she'd have control of the bank account open and shut verdict comes in here okay um not even that long of uh deliberation they deliberate for two hours that's fast two hours and uh the first charge is of course murder uh well let's they first they find her uh six on six counts of hindering apprehension, they find her guilty on that. So yeah, they get her there.

And then the, there's another charge they find her guilty on. And then for the murder charge, they find her not guilty of murder. Oh my God. Not guilty at all of murder. The jury foreman and afterwards said, quote, we think Edward Zakarian was a liar. That's all.

They said they didn't believe him. Wow. That's all. The only evidence they had was his word and they just didn't trust him. Except for shallow shots. A crazed man with a hammer will destroy a head. Yeah. Crazed.

An angry teenage girl that's 115 pounds well they'll kill you and tentative yeah too because she doesn't know if she wants to do this she's not in a crazed state yeah that's the thing with her it was a tentative and that's how it looked by the crime scene a tentative attack and then the last thing was fuck it done i don't believe her for a second um yeah uh now he still is on the line for aggravated manslaughter which he'll be sentenced for next month um he faces a term of 10 to 20 years in prison and she's on you know getting put on lower lower charges here so the sentencing comes around and uh she is sentenced Well, let's do it here.

The superior court judge said this is a woman who stood by while her mother was brutally murdered. The defendant now pleads for mercy. But Ruth Jacobus pleaded for her life. No one could hear her silent screams. No one could help her except her daughter, chose to ignore her that sounds bad at that during that susan began sobbing because it does not sound real good here uh the judge sentences her you ma'am may fuck off five years in prison wow five years in prison. Wow. Five years in prison plus. Also sentenced her to one and a half years concurrent with the main sentence. So there's that.

So she's sentenced to five years in jail. Right. She's also allowed to continue her bail during appeal. So she's allowed to stay out of jail. Out. You, ma'am, may go back to your dad's house and think about what you've done and make sure to do your beauty school project for tomorrow. Holy shit. You have to do this.

Her lawyer, Galantucci, this guy's got fucking cannolis the size of I don't know what. Not even cannolis. One cannoli and a couple of fucking giant balls. He's got a tray of cannoli. A tray of cannoli. He's got a tray of cannoli. A tray of cannoli. This fucking asshole called the sentence unfair and then called it, quote, a judicial lynching like from past time, but in the modern day.

That's what he said. A judicial lynching. Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know what you're talking about, A? And B, she's sitting home. What the fuck the judge said only one person could hear her the coley could hear her silent screams her daughter chose to ignore and then let her go home right how you fucking talking about you gave her a gift it's did he doze off during sentencing and then just stand up and go miscarriage of justice yeah miscarriage oh shit where am i i had that dream

again where i was naked under my robe and there was a miscarriage of justice happening in my courtroom you know that dream that happens so the edwards sentencing comes around because he doesn't get sentenced till after this he is called by his lawyer a quote foolish foolish young man who was under the domination of this young woman who was young in age, but, quote, old in mischief. Young in age, but old in mischief. He pulled that out of his ass and said that to a man who went to law school. That's amazing.

Meanwhile, your client rapes 13-year-olds, man. What are you talking about? What about those charges? Jesus Christ. I'm not representing him on that particular matter. That's another thing. That's for somebody else. So they, the prosecutor, portrayed Ruth as a 48-year-old deaf, mute, gentle, caring woman who worked to overcome life's adversities, a handicap,

a divorce, a widowhood. This is right from his quote, only to be killed by a man who was only to be killed by someone who was a beneficiary of her kindness. Ruth Jacobus fate was not kind to her. The judge said she is a woman to be admired for overcoming the adversities of life. It was a cruel and unhuman end to a valiant life. He ignores these pleas from Edward. As we see here, Edward begins crying and he says, quote, I am very sorry about everything.

And God knows I am paying for it now with my parents and me. I told the truth and that's all. Paying for it like my parents have grounded me. So that's like and that's all. I'm paying for it. Like my parents have grounded me. So that's like in school. Like you don't need to suspend me. I'm totally grounded. Like they took my Genesis away.

I can't do anything. What are you talking about? You think suspending me is a good idea? When I go home, my parents are going to kick my ass through this suspension. They're just going to beat my fucking ass. My dad's going to beat me with one of those squaring tools that the architects use. Big square rulers. He's going to whack me with it.

The judge says, quote, he showed a complete indifference to human life, a very callous attitude. He's got or he got his mercy in the plea bargain and will get no more. In other words, I'm going to fucking bang you. gets no more in other words i'm gonna fucking bang you and uh he tells him you sir may fuck off the maximum 20 years in state prison that's good for him uh yes he must serve seven years before being eligible for parole oh my god they're like he's a it's a plea he's a very he's good i'm sure he got out right away too because he's a sympathetic parolee I'm sure he got out right away, too, because he's a sympathetic parolee, being that he's got a family. He's got places to go. College.

He's was a participant in it. Wasn't the main person. The other person got fucking nothing. And then you got this. So it's not on his charges. That's what I'm saying. Rape's not on. That's not going to come up in his parole hearing, probably.

So he's probably going to get off. Now, the inheritance. Where the fuck does that go? The whole thing that you asked about here. So the law is supposed to they say the law is supposed to discourage people from killing, killing people that they're going to inherit money from. It's also a simple matter of justice that a wrongdoer shouldn't be able to benefit as a result of his evil deed. or shouldn't be able to benefit as a result of his evil deed. So Susan shows up to take over as administrator of her dead mother's estate, and the clerk tells her she can't, even though she is sole beneficiary of the will.

So this would happen before her trial and everything. They shifted her request to a superior court judge who ruled that until uh until that until she has no right to she has no right to the estate under the time-honored rule of the wrongdoer thing here so they find that uh walter has sons in florida remember those two sons that went yeah they have sons in florida and uh found out that ruth should have never inherited the estate from her husband because he murdered his first wife and so this is fucking crazy base that the estate should have

been passed down to the sons Walter Jr. and Russell Jacobus who were 27 and 20 at the time and who were married and living in Florida and doing all this shit the attorney here said I think you're talking about a fundamental justice and fairness.

It's grotesque and repulsive to the mind that a person could deliberately kill another person and then inherit money from them. So after, yeah, after release from prison, he had the house that he inherited half of from his wife, Walter, $10,000 in stocks and cash. And the house at this point in time then was worth seventy five thousand dollars and been put up for sale but the attorneys feel that it's quote eerie history might repel potential buyers so the uh susan's attorney says that the state of ruth a state of ruth should be reimbursed ninety two hundred dollars for improvements she made to the home. So they said she put things in there. The son's maternal grandmother there said that the ruling was fair.

The kids are now going to get this stuff here. And she says it will help the boys who have nothing. They were left with their grandmother to bring them up, and it wasn't easy. They've had a rough time in life, but they're still trying to make a go of it. Then she says quote let's just forget this whole nightmare literally let's and that's a woman with whose daughter was murdered she's just like it's just been for a fucking 20 years now literally first my daughter's murdered then i got the kids this guy now she's murdered there's estates we're

fighting for this is bullshit the one the hurt that mother the phyllis's mother didn't even know what was going on until she read in the paper that this woman was killed and saw the address and did all that she didn't even understand that what happened she didn't know like what the rules were or anything until she started seeing that and going wait a second why the fuck is that lady's murderers murdering daughter gonna get my daughter's shit that's not fair so that's what happened and at this point it went to those kids um susan ended up eventually having to serve a very minimal amount of time in prison um eventually her appeals ran out but that was like a year later i think she might have went in for a year or some shit and then was let out pretty quickly

and um that was that i'm sure edward zakarian's walking around somewhere i'll bet he's not somebody probably killed him by now for fucking diddling their daughter i hope into their children's bedroom what a oh man and if not that disaster he probably is in prison for the rest of his life you know what i mean in and out yeah too she you don't you don't do that and then just live uh no fucking free right this is great these are both young people who whoever did it and whatever whichever story is true there is at least one very frightening person walking around that is capable of anything and possibly. And I fear, too, because I really think the story, I think I think it's somewhere between both their stories.

If I had to be honest, his is more self and self incriminating. So I tend to believe him more because he put himself in it. But he could just be trying to if he did hundred percent of it, he might try to put her in for half of it also. But I think it's one of those things, like most things there's, there's the truth, there's his story and his story, and then the truth in the middle there. And I think it's one of those deals probably it's like, uh, it's like making a murder. I think he's guilty and the cops planted evidence. So there you go. Both of those things can be very possible.

They're not mutually exclusive. I think that's one of the things. They both lied and they both fucking did it in my opinion. So just my opinion, though. Either way, that is one hell of a Thanksgiving story for you. My God. Everybody out there, I really hope your Thanksgivings work out a little better than this keep that in mind this thanksgiving when your mom says uh you're using a few too many minutes on the phone bill in 2004 that's what you'll say then you'll if you time travel

back to 2004 and they complain about using up your anytime minutes and can't you hold that shit till the weekends when the shit's free don't kill your mom please or have your boyfriend do it for that matter whenever you're on the wi-fi and she tells you you're bogging down her wi-fi whatever it is there you go that's technical modern day fucking yeah just be cool especially if you can't talk or hear be nice jesus fuck even think about it this way if she's older just go you don't understand how that works there's bandwidth that's not how it works okay my you don't get it and she'll go okay i guess i don't understand it's somebody else in the neighborhood it's because of the

neighborhood there's a usage for a whole it's a it's a it's a block by it's a square mileage you don't get it mom it's very technical you have to be at least millennial or younger to understand this shit. Sorry. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. But yeah, don't kill your parents, obviously. What else? Oh, don't rape eighth graders.

That's another thing. Please don't do that. Don't murder your mother. Don't murder your wife and then try to kill yourself. That was another lesson. So we have three lessons today. Don't kill your parents. Don't rape 13 year olds. And if you're planning on murdering someone, then killing yourself, skip it. Skip step A and go right to step B and let's all call it a fucking day.

And then the last point is that if you feel like any of that is possible, cut your whole family out of your life and do Thanksgiving alone. Absolutely. It's not worth it. No. Your mom will say, why didn't you come? That's better than the police saying, why'd you murder them? Why didn't you is way better than why did you?

You know what I'm saying? Way better. Make something up. Make your parents think you're doing better than you are. Tell them you have to do like a summer internship for a senator or something. You'd certainly rather answer that question than the other. I'd rather tell my mom because you birthed two other assholes. That's why.

I don't want to tell cops because she birthed two assholes. That's beautiful, Jimmy. That is some glorious holiday fun right there. You know what I'm saying? That is good shit. And if you enjoyed that, get on. We're thankful to you. And be thankful back by giving us a review somewhere.

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You can get a hold of the show many different ways. First of all, with our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram as well. So lots of ways to get a hold of the show here. Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for your tickets to live shows. You're not going to find a better time than one of our live shows.

We are very humble men, both of us. We're very, very humble. We're not guys who are like, hey, my dick's huge. That's not the type of guys we are. But we will slap our giant stagecocks on the table during our fucking shows because we're good. Our goddamn live shows are good. And they're good enough where even we'll brag about them and we hate ourselves.

You ask anybody that's been to a live show if it was any good. And I promise you, it was good. It's good. It's a comedy show, first and foremost. We tell an amazing story. All the visuals are there as well you're going to see all these people see all these locations and we're going to make fun of shit like that lots of jokes going on and the vibe of being in a room with like a thousand other

people who like the same shit is pretty cool it's just fun we take everybody has a good time podcasting is a difficult thing to do but we we don't want to. We saddle the burden. We'll take the burden of giving you a good time because we want you to see other podcasts, too. And other podcasts, I don't know what they do live, but I hope that they take that shit dead ass serious, too, because we want we don't want to be the people that people are like, oh, I saw that show live and I'm never seeing another podcast. We want you to see us first and then see others and go, oh,'t as good and then come see us again and again and again and that's who we want to be but see us first don't don't take some other shit yeah let us set the live show as let us set the bar for you because we know what the fuck we're doing i promise we're gonna throw down so do that we're everywhere all over the country i think there might be a couple tickets left in

brooklyn i'm not positive there was sold out there might be a couple tickets left in Brooklyn. I'm not positive. They were sold out. Then there was a couple returned because people had them for two years, and they're allowed to do that. There should be some available. If you want to come, come on out. It's possible. Check that. I think Seattle, there's a few available.

We've got a Thursday-Friday show there in December. Portland was still not a ticket to be had, and I know Boston was at the Wilbur limit. Packed all three tiers. Pack the fuck up. We can't wait to see you guys out there. It's going to be so much fun. So check that out.

Shut up and give me murder.com. Most of all, we have Patreon. My goodness, the episodes are fantastic this week. So much fun. And we try to give you a good variety there. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Anybody five bucks or above, you get access to every goddamn thing we do.

For both shows, all the bonuses, you're going to get at least four shows a month and to get good karma yes four shows a month and good karma or one cup of coffee that's literally what that equals so yeah you put it this way if you met one of us and we've you know you like our show and we were at a coffee place you'd probably go i'll buy you a cup of coffee because we buy you a cup of coffee i'll buy you a cup of coffee save the coffee get patreon and we benefit and so do you because we're going to give you really good shit including this week crime and sports bonus which of course you get access to will be on sports superstitions oh so really that's just weird uh making fun of strange human behavior and strange that that'll be it's fun athletes yeah you definitely don't need to like sports to fucking listen to that that's just weird making fun of strange human behavior. Strange cars, athletes. Yeah. You definitely don't need to like sports to fucking listen to that.

That's just funny shit. And then for the small town murder episode, a very requested one and one that we've both been insanely interested in for a while. Just finished, right? I've read. Yeah, it's the whole thing. Yeah, it keeps kind of going here and there because there's so many different legal ramifications from the whole thing. But I've read like eight books on it. We're going to do the NXIVM cult.

And it's where Jonestown meets LuLaRoe in the fucking middle there. That's exactly what it is. Everybody's wearing an ugly skirt. Everybody's got an ugly skirt. It's cults meet fucking meet multilevel marketing. And they just sit and and really get close to scientology they're in the same bubble as scientology and that was kind of oh it's weird dude it's weird we'll hear all about keith renier he's weird shit

and i'm going to kind of concentrate on the rise of it and how the fuck it happened because then of course that's the baffling part yeah and that's not that's the least reported on part because when you hear about you know sex slaves and branding and shit that's that's really interesting and we'll touch on that don't get me wrong but we're really going to touch on the and i don't understand why they do that because like yeah that's the shocking crazy part but fucking who would what why why would you let somebody do that to you that's there's also millions upon millions upon millions of dollars just built from people and thrown in the garbage and fucking lies and they ruin people's lives and and fucking did the same scientology shit

of following people and trying to discredit them and suing them for shit and all this stuff their lives it's insane we'll talk about it all of that stuff patreon.com slash crime and sports be there for that and of course you will get a shout out because we appreciate you and we appreciate what you do for us and we want to let everybody know who these fine people are and so you can do that like we said there or at paypal you can use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. That said, it's time and it's Thanksgiving. Tell me, Jimmy, who are the people that we are most thankful for now? This week's executive producers are Corporal Carl Kirshner, Terry Suardos, Larry Butterfast, Jordan Bennett, Madison, oh, Melissa Turner.

Happy birthday, P.S. Happy birthday. And Madison Freeman. You guys are incredible. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. Our producers this week are Park Gary's daughter, Megan Gary, was in a car accident, James. Her four-month-old baby, Avon Lee, I think, Grace. Oh, no, don't tell me that's not bad.

She's fine, unharmed. I was so scared. But the car, James. Listen, if you're going to Uber,ber motherfuckers knock it off that's their four month old kids in cars out there and yeah you can hurt people and pregnant ladies like john bones jones we found out miraculous that's amazing it's amazing congratulations if you saw the car james you'd lose your mind that's frightening hang in there megan uh get better and your husband as well uh also other producers this

week liz vasquez thanks for coming to the show liz it was great yeah great to see you james martyr sky lolo and the haiti kid shit up pearlman i know it's a little people tag team it's gary friedman he's fucking amazing he knows the old wrestling king kong mosca you know that angelo mosca 70s and 80s fucking mainly mainly 70s guy. Star. I think Gary's showing his age with these references. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He really is. These are before my time.

He digs so deep. I'm a student of the game. There you go. Peyton Meadows, Prom Night Baby Dumpster. Wait, Prom Night Dumpster Baby. That's what it is. Prom Night Dumpster Baby. It's a Family Guy song.

All right. Happy birthday, Libby. Zumbalen Wychkowski, I think. Jordan Schmood. Cliff Martz. Doug Jones. Avon Mergen. John Yerr in Minnesota, I think.

Happy birthday, Johnny. Jason Dingus. Jason Dingus. These people's names are for real, by the way. I think there's three in here that donated because their last name is Dingus. I saw them commenting about it. I was like, that's hilarious. Janice Welmers passed away.

Sorry about that, Andrew. Hang in there, buddy. I think it's his grandma. He's a good kid. That sucks. Nancy Weaver, Steve Schnell, Sammy Dingus Quigley, Janice Hill, Samantha, nope, Susanna Platt, Happy Hour checking in from Crossville, Tennessee, Michael Purney, Mr. Fun, Anna Watson, Heavy Metal Bluegrass,

Brooke Harper, Jordan Upham, Melissa Krizwiki. What is this, Krizwiki? Krizwiki? You cry whiskey sometimes. I mostly sweat it. Jason Fifield. Devo. Devo with no last name.

Soraya Sajadian. Malicious Hat. Julian Manti. Tamara Galger. Jeff Green. Sean Musburger. Molly with no last name. Mike Duh.

Chase Morgan. Laura Gilchrist. Angela Palmer. Caitlin Wedgwood. Joe Monahan. Amanda Armstrong, Joe Lynn Curran. Happy birthday, Jay Wilkinson. G and H told us to tell you that. Kendrick Rand.

Call sign, Matora. I don't know what that is. Alasdair? I don't know. Call sign? That can't be somebody's first name. Maybe. I don't know. Like Maverick? Is that a call can't be somebody's first name. Is that like Top Gun? Maybe. I don't know.

Like Maverick? Is he? Is that a call sign? Matora? Matora? Is that a thing? Hell do I know. Maybe.

Alice Dare Young, Brittany Worth, and San Bernardino. Thank you, Brittany. Kaylee Greer, Annabelle Mankey. Mankey. Mankey. Rebecca Trug, Gary Donnan, Laurel Mattson Bonner, Angelo, fuck, Allerid, Rachel Hagen, Nicole Aggressor, John Oswald, Colton with no last name, Tara Layton, Christopher Margolin, Gavin, oh, fucking, what is this, Locher, Reacher, Cherere. Close enough. That's great.

Close enough. That's great. Tara Gonzalez, Clay Mahagan, Kay Bear. Kay Bear, yes. Karen Drusendahl, Andrea Lest, Kimberly Sullivan, Brandon Gunn, Tyler Wells, Taylor Sabini, John and Annie Trimble, Jesse Skrzekowski, Brandon Self, Laura Albertson, Kristen Halderman, Cassidy Ann Preston-Wolf, Zach Harmeyer, Dee with no last name, Michelle McCauley, Heather Thank you. with no last name, Michael Musick, Denise Mastrucci, Dylan and Jimmy, both with no last name,

Ben McKee, Suka, okay, Mipine. Are you proud of yourself? Suka Maipine, you son of a bitch. Very.

Roz O'Dell, Heather Cochran, Amanda Conlon, Tasha, with no last name, Matt Nicholson, Char Kramer, Kraut Kramer.

Kraut Kramer. That's one. fucks german girls bailey chapman jake yone zara zara cod oh boy cod walla walla uh benjamin zarmatt that's a real last name james probably not the way it's said maybe probably not i'll bet i was close jesse beard kylie nolan aaron uh dahlke yuli would know last name karina sieber tucker modler uh laurel smith sylvia sylvia sylvia sylvia fisher uh i'd still whatever rob nailer uh i hardly know her austin holmes colby would know last name kathy moore jamie fuller christopher roberto take my wife please i take my wife everywhere but she finds a way home charlie drolette irving massive mess of it all pam smith lacey beachy uh robbie arnold daniel sokolowski sokolski ed Edwin Snell, Maria, Elizabeth Barnes, Colby, Colby McIntosh, Tom Jump, Grim Mystery Podcast, Kyle McKay, Stephanie D. Gazzara.

I'm sorry, James. Don't be mad at me. Mark Green, Gaila Ignacio, Jill Cook, Donya Parr, Jordan Stuckey. Oh, boy. G. Gow. Went to see my doctor, he gave me six months to live, told him I couldn't pay the bill, he gave me another six months. Jordan Stuckey, Lauren Flake, John Petrowski, Dylan Meyer, my mom used to say I was ugly, she was so ugly she gave me a toaster to play with in the bathtub. Johnny Stackhouse, Emily

Simenek, Jen Katz, John Gleason, probably Jackie's kid, Alex Below, Marcella with no last name, Cash with no last name, Stephen Vega, Derek Allen, Nathan Gass, Plasos, Dave Gamblin,

William Lohr Sr., and also Melissa Noor fucking what? Vera Millie, I think. I don't know. And all of our patrons. You guys do everything for us and we can't thank you enough. Thank you! Thank you, everybody, so, so much for all that you do.

You wonderful, wonderful bastards. We do, do appreciate you very, very much. Thanks for everything you've done all year for us and we'll continue to do and we can't wait to see you at live shows what if people wanted to find you jimmy how can they find you in the wonderful wonderful world of the internet find me at shut up and give me murder.com at all the live shows in cities that we're going to be in please come to these come to these they're so sold out except for the the one coming up in seattle get those

tickets clear it out and let's fucking party. Let's get it on, man. It's going to be a good time. We cannot fucking wait to do that. Are you on that website, too? I think so. Pictures of you are there, right? Pictures and stuff and things.

You can find us on Google. Just Google the show, and you can find it all, man. Just shop at GiveMeMurder.com. It has links to everything. You can find it all right there. Keep coming back. Survive Thanksgiving with the family. Don't murder any of them.

Remember, no teenage girl raping. There's a lot of rules. Don't do any of that stuff. Skip to be. You know what the rules are. It should all be common sense. Common sense rules. That said, have fun and come back next time.

And until next week or until next time. And until next week, or until next time, whatever the fuck it is, we'll see you next week. Yeah. James, it's been our pleasure. It's been our pleasure. I know what it is. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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