Small Town Murder - #253 - Bloodthirsty Murder & Stupid People - Daugherty Township, Pennsylvania

Episode Date: December 9, 2021

This week, in Daugherty Township, Pennsylvania, the shot, battered & strangled body of a woman is discovered, and one of the most unlikely & crazy tales of murder unfolds from there. The craziest part is that the whole plot only becomes clear after a second body is recovered, and it turns out to be someone who was supposed to kill the first body. A twisted, brutal, and disturbing mess, from start to finish. How many times does it take to kill an unsuspecting person? An awful lot, apparently!  Along the way, we find out that charity events make bad comedy gigs, that you shouldn't try to get everyone you know to kill your wife, and that murder is apparently harder than it seems!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Doherty Township, Pennsylvania, the battered, shot, and strangled body of a woman is found, and the answer seems simple, but what's uncovered is one of the least secretive murder

plots of all time. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you so much for joining us everybody we are excited as usual even though yeah we're jacked this is crazy even though there's murder on the shelf obviously that's what we're going for still we are going to find the crazy in it and this story that we have today is wild so buckle up for that. Before we get into it, just want to thank everybody for your reviews this week. They help a lot.

So thank you very much on whatever platform you're listening to. Also, head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Tickets to live shows we have next up is Seattle and Portland. Portland's all sold out. But Seattle, I think there's a couple of tickets left for the Friday night and there's a few left for Thursday. So get those tickets, sell it out because they're going fast and keep checking because people turn tickets in once in a while and one might pop up. So keep checking on that.

Check on all the dates. Enjoy. Shut up and give me murder. Tampa and Orlando specifically, they put tickets back on sale after everybody got to get refunds and such. It was sold out. Now it's not. So buy your fucking tickets.

Let's go. Let's do it here. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. My goodness, do we have amazing stuff there this week. So much fun this week. And anybody $5 or above, you get access to everything, both shows, Crime and Sports and Small Town Murders episodes. And it's fun stuff.

This week we have for the Crime and Sports episode and it's fun stuff this week we have for the crime and sports episode it's all about counterfeit memorabilia and people who make make counterfeit memorabilia and it's like a multi-billion dollar a year crime thing like we've moved the mafia out of these things and they this and that's been replaced with joe dimaggio baseballs that were signed last week so it's insane you got to listen to this and there's all sorts of crime involved it's twisted and then for small town murder we're going to do something very very fun it's kind of like we did an episode on small town festivals that was amazing a while back this is about weird things that go on at county fairs from around the nation because we found

some weird stuff and we're going to explore that a little further so that is going to be hilarious check that out find out why you're grossed out by the county fair exactly what kind of weird foods are going on there what kind of heart stopping awful sugar covered deep fried things are going to be served the rides don't kill you the the food will. Oh, yeah. Rides, weird things that happen, bad concerts. It's all going to be there. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

And you're going to get a shout-out at the end of the show where Jimmy will try his hardest to say your name correctly while inevitably mispronouncing it. So that's how that's going to work. And if you just want to make a donation, have good karma, and get your shout to paypal and enter our email address crime and sports at gmail.com that's it it's time for the disclaimer everybody here disclaimer time this is a comedy podcast we're comedians so we are jokes are i assure you going to happen we're going to make fun of some things what we're not going to do though when we go out of our way not to do is we're not going to make fun of the victim or the victim's family why because we're assholes but we're not scumbags that's that's how it works there so if that sounds good to you i think we're going to have a good time uh let's face it there's nothing you know funny about somebody being brutally murdered the act of it there is something funny about someone going all right i got an idea of how i'm gonna get away with killing this person that's that can be very funny because

it's ridiculous let's be realistic so uh that said yeah we're if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together you might not like the show but you might like the show give it a shot but don't complain later on if you said there was jokes in there of course there was so uh stories are real that we assure you that said i think it's time to sit back clear the old lungs and shout shut up shut up and give me murder let's do this let's go on a trip jimmy you have the loudest straw ever by the way over, over there. Straw's like, he's squeaking away. Jesus Christ. I'm a DJ.

You didn't know. You're like a four-year-old at McDonald's right now. I just didn't blow bubbles. Pretty soon we're going to hear the almost empty slurps. Yeah. So let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do this. Let's do it.

We are coming from idaho last week yes where we made some people angry which i found hilarious yeah made no more fun of them than we do of anywhere else but for some reason there they were a little more sensitive than other people there's a little blackfoot pride and to that we say get over it um take it on the chin everything we said was true and shut up about it so enjoy tell your neighbors not to be dicks that said next up on the chopping block would be torty township and this is one thing where i say i refer you back to i think it's episode 215 fishkill new york that is where i up, went to high school and stuff. If you want to hear how I was way worse to that than anywhere that you live.

So it's not about that. We make fun of everywhere. It's fun. And have fun. Fuck it up. So Doherty Township, Pennsylvania. This is Western Pennsylvania, the farthest western county in Pennsylvania. Damn near Ohio over here.

It's about 45 minutes to Pittsburgh here. It's not too far from our last Pennsylvania episode, as we'll get to here. About two hours to Cleveland, 40 minutes to Ross Township, Pennsylvania, which is our last Pennsylvania episode, which was the hot tub killer. We remember that guy. So that was a crazy ass episode. Pennsylvania always giveslvania always gives us always gives us crazy episodes because you think of pennsylvania and you think of philadelphia and pittsburgh and there is so much more pennsylvania than that it's a holy shit there's

hours in between hours of pennsylvania as we discovered when we said sure we could just drive from pittsburgh to philly it's not a big deal i found out that takes three days somehow huge deal takes as long as it takes to get from arizona to new york it takes to get from philly to pittsburgh to philly for some reason i don't know why no flights in between the two no what the fuck god forbid six hours away but no flights anyway perhaps they want us to know that it's so goddamn vast i think they do they look at our Amish people. Look at them. They have nice furniture. Look at it. Don't you dare miss your exit. Look at how they lived.

Oh, you're done. Because there's not another one for 4,700 miles. So this is in Beaver County. Of course it is. 10 square miles, this town is. The motto of this town, and they really hit it hard, is it's on everything, is, quote, a miniature Americana. I'll bet it is. Yeah, they want you to think this is like Main Street, USA, you know, Disneyland, weird shit going on.

Western Pennsylvania, almost Ohio. Almost damn near Ohio. Very kind of old school little town. History of this town, and we'll go through this kind of quick because the story is insane and we need all the time we can get for it. Doherty Township received its name in honor of Edward Black Doherty, a local attorney that lived there. Not the guy from the cows. No, this is a different guy completely. So they had been splitting up this land into different towns before that. And in 1890, people in Pulaski Township, which was nearby, started talking amongst themselves about dividing the township up once again.

So they drew up a petition and they wanted to basically secede from the town is what they were doing. And the petition was voted down in 1891. But by 1892, they were on board again. They were sick of it. Landowners met. Takes a little bit of convincing. You know it. They met once a week to discuss the issue, ending every meeting with a prayer for guidance.

Once a week? Once a week. That's a lot that's often yeah volunteers went from farm to farm to acquire 400 signatures and so they ended up dividing it up and the attorney who was doing all of this is daughtry as doherty that's how they got the name here he probably just put his name on the thing like they didn't even know what the name of their town they all voted for it to be something else springfield springfield and they he was like sure i don't know they must have mistaked it with my name was on the paperwork well i guess it's doherty now oh well what are we gonna take it we mistaked it they mistaked it they mistook it a loud straw and yeah bubble no shit that was the same but i'm on two hours sleep what's your excuse it's a difference but either way mistaked it

is probably not acceptable out of my mouth i apologize for that so they uh anyway they prayed the court would hear the petition and grant the division and uh they did eventually hear they ordered that the north and north the division. And they did eventually hear. They ordered that the north and northeastern part of the township would be designated as Doherty Township in order of Edward B. Doherty. So there you go. I looked on the town website, okay, has a miniature Americana displayed at the top. And I looked at their historical section. And so I figured they would have some history on this town right oh boy you would imagine this is that what they have the

balls to put on their town website it says history historical document request doherty township is rich in history and heritage unfortunately the township office is short on its supply of artifacts and historical information regarding the township and its people. It's rich in history and heritage of which we know none of, even though we live here. Not even one anecdote? Nothing. Doherty Township would like to extend an invitation to anyone who has any historical information regarding the land, buildings and people of Doherty Township to share this information with the township office. Please. Here there's a lot. Please help us.

It's rich and someone's got to have something. That's I've never seen that before. On their sites, they have something called Doherty Township tidbits. On their sites, they have something called Doherty Township Tidbits. And these are little clips from the newspapers about Doherty Township from like the early 1900s. For some reason, they think that's something. So that's the historical thing. Here's one from 1904.

It's called Young People Enjoy Outing. This is their history. A sleighing party from Marion Hill visited the area, visited the home of Charles Ferguson, Doherty Township, last evening. They enjoyed a bonfire and several hours of sledding. This is the history they have of the town. A sleigh party, like in a one-horse open sleigh. Yeah, I would assume. They probably made that song up during the whole outing.

Probably. Here's one from 1906 horse killed near pottery okay uh apparently a train struck a horse owned by jake bowers oh my god and that's what happened there um here's one doherty grove dance from 1907 july 4th there'll be a dance there in 1907. Bible class enjoys corn roast. Yeah, the corn roast held last Friday at the Rumbled Farm in Doherty was a very enjoyable affair. That's literally in the newspaper. This is not rich in history. No. And then this, for some reason, had a terrible fall from 1910.

Oh, all right. Clark Humes of Doherty Township sustained serious injuries while repairing barn. Falling a distance of 20 feet and landing on a wheelbarrow, Mr. Humes sustained four crushed ribs and a large head wound. No shit. Oh, Jesus. Mr. Humes had just got up on the barn roof when he lost his balance and fell. I guess, wow, that is, holy is holy shit landed on a wheelbarrow that sounds painful that sounds very painful you'd be much better off hitting the ground i think on that one you know just flat at least there's not a wheelbarrow handle stuck in your rib cage so here's uh reviews of this town

and they're all pretty good nobody hates it here okay four stars in my neighborhood a lot of the houses were built by family members that live in the houses so each house has its own look and is not set up like housing plans there's a decent amount of room between each house each house and each has a yard so they're like that that's good track homes that's no track homes and yards that's good four stars homes. That's no track homes. Yards. That's good. Four stars. People are nice around the area and easy to get along with. That's it.

Okay. This is a fun one. Three stars. If I could change where I live, I wouldn't. Wouldn't. I like the area here because it has its own unique things to the area, and then we are not far from pittsburgh at all i do like the area but i would like to try something new so i hope to move one day

your first sentence and last sentence are completely contradictory if i could change where i live i wouldn't but i would like to get out of here and try something new now give me a few minutes while i talk myself into it it's the most confused imagine being that person in two sentences that person's complete head is completely confused imagine talking to that guy for 10 minutes you lose your mind what are you talking about bob what are you talking about are you moving or not you asshole you'd be so mad at him ford pickup trucks dodges are the worst chevys are really bad you know i kind of like ford pickup know, I'm going to go get me one of them new F-150s. What are you talking about? What have you done to yourself? What is wrong with you, Bob?

How did you get this way? That is wild, man. I don't want to go here just because of that. That's how people are that indecisive. You know, hey, how do I get to that restaurant? Well, you go down Main Street and go over here, but don't go down Main Street. What the hell are you talking about? I'm very confused. These are the people that get suckered into believing that there's fraud on their Social Security number. Yeah. Really? So gullible you can convince yourself.

Well, let me go ahead and give you my bank route number and my Social Security and my mother's maiden name, and hopefully we can clear this up real quick. Jesus Christ. You know my dog, my first dog in the street I lived on, my first house in my elementary school. There's a lot of things I'm sure you want to know about me, and I'm willing to tell you anything that can help me. Everything. So here's a three star. Three stars. The public services are good around here. The first responders respond quickly.

I hope so. It's a small town. There's not enough distance to cover. You're right there. Yeah. It's a half a mile away. Get your ass over here. What are you waiting for?

So people in this town, population 2,980. Not that big of a town here. Down 13% since 2000. A couple more males than females, which is obviously a little out of whack, but not by much. Median age here is about 15 years older than normal. It's 52.1. It's kind of an older crowd. Yeah, married populations, almost 63 percent, normally 50 50.

So it's definitely got more of a kind of a family feel. The widow rate, despite the older population, the widow rate is half for some reason. And the older population, higher marriage rate, low widow rate. It makes them thriving. They're thriving. They're doing wonderfully here, I guess. Single with no children, lower than normal as well so if you're going looking for a party that might not be your your spot uh race of this town 97.5 percent white that's it's pretty white to be

close that close to a major city like pittsburgh i mean that's uh 0.8 percent black 0.8 jesus christ uh 0.0 percent asian uh let's 0.0 percent hispanic that's incredible that's incredible that's incredible that's almost 18 of the population in this country one has why i don't that's that's yeah it sounds on purpose i'm gonna go out there and say it. Maybe it's not. But that's a lot. Yeah, that sounds. Asian and Mexican people, Spanish, Latin, not a one. Yeah, but there's like three times as many Hispanic as Asian people in the country.

And they don't have either. It's very strange. 51.7% of the people in Doherty are religious. And most of them, as you might might imagine are going to be catholic 29 of the population is catholic because catholics are as we know the baptists of the north and that's obvious 0.0 percent jewish wow not a lot of anything here um this county beaver county the last election 40 of the people voted Democratic and 58% Republican, 1.6% Independent. Unemployment rate here is a little bit high, 6% in the rest of the country.

It's about 8.5% here. Household income also a little bit above average, 57,500 is your average. Here, it's a little over 70,000, so not too shabby at all. Cost of living, 100 being regular average. Here, it's a little over $70,000, so not too shabby at all. Cost of living, $100,000 being regular average. Here it's $89,000. And home cost here, that's low. Home cost, median home cost, $173,000. Fantastic.

Yeah, $291,000 in the rest of the country. Get you a piece of the American dream. You got higher household income and lower house costs. So that's not too shabby. And maybe that's convinced you, damn it, that you need to move to Doherty Township, Pennsylvania. In that case, lucky for you, we have the Doherty Township, Pennsylvania real estate report. your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 975 dollars so lower than the national average but not as low as the housing costs uh three bedroom one bath i found it's a brick house there's no square footage for some reason on this house but it from what i found the measurements and stuff

it's about 13 1500 square feet somewhere in there kind of a you know small family home uh nice inside updated clean nice 149 900 bucks very decent so not bad at all good good family home i found this one here's a good uh good Four bedroom, three bath, 2,053 square feet. So we've got some room there. It's a brick house. Looks very sturdy. You can huff and puff all you want. It's nice.

Needs a little updating, but it's not bad. It's kept very nice. Yeah, it's kept very nice, too. It's very clean. Some cool stuff feature-wise, some neat stuff. $199,000 for that. That is awesome. It's not about half an acre.

Not bad at all. Can't beat a big yard. Then I found four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,391 square feet. So a little more room to spread out. Again, nice brick house. I would call this house, it's cute. It's got a cute look to it. You look at it, you go, look at that. It's a cute little house there. Has a very nice judgment porch. Very nice porch for judging. It's got like a nice walk up, nice stone steps. And it's a nice porch. You could really sit back and judge. A detached

garage. Very nice. The first line of the real estate listing calls it, quote, a perfect 10 in every way. Oh, boy. And you'd have to get that because it's $269,000 here, which is... A perfect 10 for less than 300 grand. Yeah, still reasonable in the rest of the country. That's lower than the national average house. Right.

It's a nice house, so not too shabby uh things to do in this town i found one here and we're gonna make fun of it for this reason okay so don't don't get this shit twisted and be like oh you're making fun of a good cause first of all we're gonna we're gonna send a few bucks to this cause for making fun of it and second of all we're making fun of it because we know what it is and we've been there all right you'll you'll know what i mean when i read it i'm so excited it is the 2018 doherty volunteer fire department comedy and dinner show fundraiser no yes this is terrible not for what it causes it's a great cause this is terrible if you're one of the comedians this is a death gig this is a death gig they're gonna like have an auction yeah there's gonna be little kids there

they're gonna tell you to be clean or they won't but no one will pay attention because they're eating like a dinner like there's getting a banquet dinner while you're performing the lights are all on so people can see while they walk around old people don't trip and fall with their fucking buffet lunch and there's somebody there that's in charge of everything that nobody likes but we're not allowed to say it on stage we're not allowed to say that guy's an asshole not allowed to say that yeah they have i'm telling you this is the you do this strictly because you're like okay it's a nice thing to do china we're raising money for the volunteer fire department and then you get there and you punch your steering wheel the whole way home as people ignore the shit out of you so it's a death gig is why we're picking

on it and uh the the comedians they have them on here we have uh they all look like they're from like a radio station couple have improv over them so i I assume Pittsburgh Improv, which is a very nice club, by the way. It's a beautiful club. Sean Collier is one of them. Wait. I don't know. Do I know Sean Collier? I have no idea if you know Sean Collier.

Sorry. How would I know who you know? It sounds so familiar. Mike Travers is one of them. Chuck Krieger. He says from the improv there,ff conkle and holly price these are your comedians who had a terrible gig and uh we're bastards yeah is it comics about too because it's a charity thing we don't make money for that we're just doing it to be nice and one of your

friends who's running the show talked you into it because they're nice and you're like i'll help you out sure and i want it's a nice cause and then it's horrible sometimes they do pay and that's really nice because but as you drive you feel bad money in your pocket you feel like a piece of shit i like when they're like you can have some of the buffet and you're like oh thanks that's great i'll take some of the yellow and some of the green yeah i'll do that there's a roast beef dinner at 6 p.m show time at 8 p.m so people have two hours to get full of roast beef and then sit there for another hour and a half and watch these poor comedians try to stare at you 35 bucks a ticket so we're gonna see yeah there's a there's a website

here i'm gonna see how we can donate but we're gonna donate a couple at least a few tickets worth for making fun of them so not making fun of them but making fun of what it is and how bad it is for comedians. Next up, the Fall Festival here. The times and where it is is written in children handwriting, which is always a bad sign here. There's children's activities, food trucks, live music. Oh, boy. I can't beat that.

It's a wonderful opportunity for everyone to appreciate the many great activities that the fall season brings our way. This is in New Brighton, which is right next door. When it's written in crayon like that, it is a guarantee. Come enjoy this sober, please. Yeah, it's sober. No, thank you. Yeah, it's sober because you're going to want to punch a kid otherwise because they're going to be all over the place. a kid otherwise because they're going to be all over the place live performances by bobby thompson cody allusion and the red lines oh and the project band they're going to be playing in

the streets apparently that's how that works so you can go to that uh and then the other this is just the most basic ass thing i've ever heard of and i had to add it the uh ugly sweater wine fest you bastard they're like what are 40 year old women like ugly sweaters and wines fuck it we're attracted let's get them in here i've seen it's a trend it's on instagram yeah that's what it is it's just pandering trend pandering like what are what's what are popular hashtags right now that's what the kids call them right hashtags okay popular pounds i was just That's what the kids call them, right? Hashtags. Okay. Popular pound signs. I was just going to say, what are the popular pounds that they're using now?

Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, obviously. Property crime is about half the national average, so very low. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is also less than half. Wow. So it's a safe kind of a – spread out everybody's got a yard there's nobody's on top of each other they're elderly older people spread out so i mean what do you expect there what are they going to fight with each other too much it's it's you got to walk all the way over there to fight with somebody it's a pain in the ass why bother they just do this and they wave their hand and then they go back in their house and if you just show up on a whim uh a lot of times people

are happy to see you because it's been a little bit yeah they got cookies for you so that said let's talk about a murder i can't wait it is, talk about an onion to peel. This thing, this is like an onion with an artichoke inside of it. Like you get to the middle of the onion and you're like, it's just an artichoke. Shit, now I got to peel all these leaves off and get to this. That's out. Those are pointy. Shit. And now I got to get to the heart.

That's what it is. It just came out of the oven. It's an artichoke onion, this episode. And I got to get all the straw hair off the heart. God damn it. God damn it. that's what it is just came out of the oven it's an artichoke onion this this episode i gotta get all the straw hair off the heart god damn it but it's gonna be so delicious when we get to it much like the heart of the artichoke that is the thing about an artichoke they are so good they're so damn good you know how i roll with every drop of sweat oh yeah when i make them like this with the steam and the bread crumbs it takes like 45 minutes to prep a few of them, but it's so worth it.

And then an hour to cook them. Anyway, February 12th, we have to go back to 1987. Hell, yes. Oh, yeah. You know, this is a good year, 87. There's some good movies. Some good comedy comes out then. Yeah, yeah.

I think this is like Planes, Trains, and Automobilesobiles i think came out in 87 was roxanne two years later great outdoors was around this time i think roxanne was 87 roxanne was 80 so yeah steve martin was i love roxanne so much worms roxanne i was afraid of worms i was afraid of i love the way he says it i was afraid of worms like that's normal sorry if you haven't seen roxanne that's gonna not help you at all i dig into it because it's fantastic and give it a little bit because i get that it's a weird premise but it's a great fucking it's it's yeah it's uh sierra no de bergerac in fucking modern day with steve martin oh my god that's what that was that lady too. I forget her name. Jean?

Is it Jean? I think it's Jean. She died. She's amazing. In that movie. She died. Talking about Shelley Duvall? No.

No, it's not Shelley Duvall. Oh, she is in it also. But the girl, the love interest is the chick from Dick Tracy. What is it? Daryl Hannah is the love interest. It is Daryl Hannah, isn't it? Why did I see it as the girl from Dick Tracy? I have no idea.

Do you know why? Because I haven't seen it in a while. I have to watch it. You have to watch it. We'll talk about it after the show. It's streaming because I watched it a couple weeks ago. Oh, great. It's great stuff.

February 12th, 1987, to get away from a fine, whimsical film and get into a landfill in western Pennsylvania. Landfill. A landfill, which is where there's garbage and things like that this is apparently some kind of private landfill and this exists in the east coast like there are places that you can go on the east coast if you're out kind of away from a major city a little bit where people have land where you they'll just you give them a few hundred bucks and they'll bury your car for you so your car can be stolen and you can get the insurance for it and that's like a it's all over the place stuff like that so people have like a

bunch of land and they use it for weird shit here that's generational wealth right so much land that you can bury shit on it and yeah matter but it? Yeah, but it's not really worth anything. It's a bunch of woods. You own a shitload of woods. So it's not, you'll own, I own 700 acres, but it's worth, you know, 200 grand, which is fine. But it's not like, oh shit, I'm going to pass that down and all my kids will live off of it type of thing. Or you can bury shit in it and make more money than the 200 grand. Yeah, it's just, it's kind of generational trash, I would call it, literally and figuratively. Yeah.

So this landfill here, they make a discovery in this landfill. The guy, the neighbor of the landfill, his last name's Gavora, he's a 44-year-old guy. He said that his friend of his told him that he was going to bury the carcass of a dog out in the landfill. Yeah, I have to go dump this dog carcass out there. And someone else he had told he had to go dump a cow out there. So cow and get the story straight and a dog. So eventually this guy took a look at it and it turns out it wasn't a cow or a dog it was the body of a 33 year old man oh my named earl t span so uh he is shot through the back of

the head sort of execution style yeah and uh he was last seen by his mother on april 4th 1985 so he's been missing almost two years this guy which is uh yeah two years in a landfill you can imagine what kind of condition he's in not great pretty goddamn condition at all not much of a condition mainly decomposed pretty pretty awful here and they dug in the you know they were looking for him pretty hard because they dug in the frozen ground on february 12th in western pennsylvania so they gotta want you bad there's got to be a reason why they're looking for you that's just not on a whim if it's a whim they go we'll wait till april it'll right yeah it's a little softer they're pretty sure he's there though too is the thing you don't like go there maybe he's there yeah maybe he's there and you would think this is some 33 year old guy shot in the back of the head last seen by his mother you

know who the hell knows what's going on about this uh but a guy comes forward this Guevara guy comes forward and starts this ball in motion that leads to something much bigger. This guy was just a domino in a long line of them that was set up to fall here. And this Guevara, he said he contacted the state deputy attorney general, and he relayed to investigators what he was told by another friend of his because he was fearing for his safety because he knew of a dead body and then he knew of another thing that was going on and he didn't want to he didn't want to be next basically so he said i can either try to you know get try to have these people not kill me and pretend i don't care about any of this or i can go to the authorities and try to protect myself. So he said that his friend kept calling his house and kept asking him to meet with him.

Come meet me somewhere. Come meet me somewhere. So if you know your friend has killed a couple people and you don't know what your relationship with them is and they keep begging you to meet them for some reason, even though you have no real business to discuss, this is a red flag, I would say. You think so? You might be next. So this guy says, I'm going to go to the cops and talk to them, and maybe they'll be interested in this animal disposal that happened a couple years ago. Now, this leads us to one of the craziest, most insane murder plots that has nothing to do with Earl Spann at all. He just gets caught up in the mix, and that's where he ends up.

He is just kind of, you know when Heathcliff was fighting in the cartoon and there's that big ball and things would get caught in it, like a garbage can would go in there as they rolled by? That's Earl Spann. He just got caught up in this crazy rumble and got spit out into a landfill. It's pretty bad stuff. So we have to go back to the late 70s early 80s and talk about a married couple this is frederick who goes by fred fred

and harleen mayhew harleen harleen yeah harleen uh mayhew m-a-y-h-u-e obviously so um they run very exciting a residential sewer cleaning business which you know that's one of those things where you hear that and you go oh that sounds horrible but sewer cleaning yeah that's the kind of weird business that would make money it's a good business that like idiots like me or you never think to try to do because that doesn't say i don't know how do you do that flush it out every time i do it yeah i don't know how that works but there's probably somebody with like a clean somebody with a really huge house somewhere that's like this is sewer cleaning money right here as they oversee their empire you know yeah i know somebody who did like

concrete smoothing in arizona and they were yeah. And I'm like, who thinks to do that? Who's like, there's a lot of concrete out there and it needs to be smooth. You see a foundation and you figure it's just great. But then you pull like a carpet or whatever or tile. Yeah. And that shit's not smooth anymore. You know what I mean? It's not smooth under there.

So then somebody can go through and smooth that and then just glaze it. And you don't have to put any treatment down. It's a's a floor they do like parking lots and shit make a lot of money so thousands of dollars and they do they make good money um but they have problems as a couple and in august of 1981 harleen has had enough and she files for divorce and the divorce takes years and years to go through it's one of these five-year divorces oh contentious there's a lot of money there's a lot of assets they're both tied up in the business so due to all of this there's like several there's several several rounds of litigation within the litigation of the divorce in terms of like business and they're gonna you know they have a hearing about this and a hearing about that. It's a lot of shit here.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime

listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. so uh they result in was there a lot of animosity between the two but especially on fred's part fred uh yeah fred has a lot of animosity toward harleen partly because of the divorce and the business thing because there's that's going to cause animosity if you're fighting over your business assets but the other problem is that that Harleen has a new boyfriend,

which that's fine. I mean, they're getting divorced, whatever. But the boyfriend's a man named Barry Carl, who is, Jesus Christ, who's Fred's former financial advisor. Oh, no, Harleen. So the guy who has had your money is now banging your ex-wife, which is terrible because he knows where you have your money. Right. He knows everything.

So that's the worst combination this guy could ask for is going on here. Or the best for Harleen. For Harleen, phenomenal. For Fred, not great at all. So he's very, very upset about this. And she's less upset because she's fine so she's uh doing great he and he was very successful too there as a couple when they were business was going and they were together it was very successful he flew planes he knew he had a pilot's license

he would hang glide and go scuba diving and shit like that and uh if you know anything about western pennsylvania none of these activities except for flying a plane are going to happen there. So this is all, no one's going scuba diving in the Ohio. This guy got a pilot's license to go do fun shit. Yeah, that's the thing. So he likes to go to exotic places and do fun things and, you know, lives a high-flying lifestyle. And he, you know, after, during the divorce,

he just watches this all kind of, it's all kind of falling away. He's got lawyer bills, he's got to give her, you know, he's got to split things with her. She was involved in the business as much as he was, so it's a lot here. They have about a million dollars worth of shit they're fighting over.

In the 70s and 80s. Yeah, this is early 80s we're talking, when the divorce goes down in 81. Problem is, too, that Mayhew owes the IRS about $400,000 in unpaid taxes from 1975 to 1981 so that was an issue that was that was one of the reasons why she was mad at him was that he wasn't paying his taxes he was just spending money uh he they owned it was called el mayhew and sons they own that company and also a my co environmental services and they would clean residential commercial and industrial pipes and septic tanks wow they are the shit sweepers my god that is unglamorous work that makes good money the worst that is yeah every there's always going to be shit and it's always

going to clog something up that's what that's there where do you where do you take that after you cleaned it that's a that's a cynical company, man. You know what they're always going to be? Shit. You know what shit's always going to do? Clog other shit up. There's always going to be us to suck that shit right out of there. Go put it somewhere else.

Go put it somewhere else. That's us, buddy. Hey, good for you. So there's some issue here. Now, one of the operations or one of the hearings during this whole divorce is that he withdrew about $60,000 from the business accounts of E.L. Mayhew and son and deposited that sum in an account in his own name. I can't do that. So, no, he just took it out. And this was while the divorce was going on and all that sort of shit. Yeah, if it own name i can't do that so no he just took it out and this was while the divorce was going on and all that sort of shit started you can't do that yeah he's just taking the money and keeping it for himself and he took checks and other business records from

e hill from the company el mayhew and son and that made harleen file a petition for divorce against him originally because he was doing this behind her back once they separated uh he also it operated a different company under the the mayo co environmental services and he's trying to say that she doesn't have a right to that because he's got another partner and but he started it while he was with her so So it's all- It's in your name. It's in our name. That's, yeah, it's- You dick.

Yeah, and they said that the, they ended up saying that he had some kind of, basically he was doing some kind of scam. They said there was a fictitious name of the business that was registered solely in his name. And the other guy that he said was his partner wasn't empowered to sign checks for the partnership. There was no

partnership tax return filed as uh he was he had paperwork here and there and he was everything wasn't on the up and up the way he was doing it he's trying to make money and do it under the under the radar yeah and trying to kind of move money here and there and i'm not going to get into the every little ticky tack details of running a environmental sewage cleaning business because we're not going to do that tell me you're not an accountant james no he basically he leased vehicles under this other companies to this other company under the name of the company he had with his wife and shit like that like put her in debt too and stuff like that so uh because of this the judge ends up finding him in contempt of court yeah for doing this and he ends up serving 254 days in the beaver

county jail on contempt of court involving the procedure proceeding so for stealing that money while they were in the middle of a divorce too and doing all that shady shit he literally gets almost a year in the county jail unbelievable he spends most of 1985 in the pokey so there you go yeah uh his lifestyle has gone changed significantly we'll put it that that way and in his mind it's all that damn harleen's fault and then my financial advisor and he's just banging away on her and spending all this money and they have everything and i'm in county jail and he's getting more mad and more mad eight months and my cpa is hammering my ex-wife yeah oh that's terrible and he this guy needs to take a deep breath and go air mattress shopping that's what he needs to do deep breath deep breath put the

money into a pile cut it in half and say goodbye to it go find the other go figure it out studio apartment start over businesses you do it rebuild do it again yeah because it's over so he was uh she on the i'm sorry uh harleen was residing at the home that used to be the family home. It's an 18-acre horse farm in Doherty Township. Wow. So it's a beautiful home. Nice residence. She's having a great time. Oh, that's on Sunflower Road.

Oh, best divorce of her life. So nice. She's fucking riding around on horses. It's a horse farm. Her and his financial accountant are literally trotting through the sunset with wind in their hair this is ridiculous sunflower road sunflower road this is sun and flowers oh you would see it through a vaseline lens you know like you it doesn't even need to be filmed that way it's so perfect it's idyllic it's so sepia. It really is. And Barry Carl, he stayed there a lot, you know, all the time.

And due to some, it doesn't come out until the divorce that there was some abuse in the Mayhew relationship between Fred and Harleen. So due to that, she has a court order prohibiting Fred from entering the horse property on Sunflower. So he's not allowed there he is living in a condo in another part of beaver county yeah okay so that's he's starting over that's fine um so december 15th 1986 comes around okay and uh harleen leaves that night she is at her daughter's birthday party so daughter's birthday and uh party and i think it's an adult daughter because she's 50 years old and yeah the party ends at like 10 45 p.m and oh yeah daughter doesn't work live with them yeah this is a party it's a party so she leaves about 10 45 pm. from her daughter's house, adult daughter, and she was driving a 1984 Oldsmobile, which is still pretty new at this point.

It's only two years old. That belongs to Barry Carl, her boyfriend. I had an 85 Oldsmobile, but I had it in the 90s. In the late 90s. Not great then. Almost a 20-year-old Oldsmobile. Oh, yeah. It was the 90s late 90s not great then but almost a 20 year old oldsmobile oh yeah it was nice it was nice it was made for that is a very old mobile at that point it was it like it would like bounce when you drove you know and had that nice pillow those are those called worn out shocks the cushy seats yeah i got it for like 150 it wasn't nice jimmy i had no money in high school talking

about the road's not bouncing but the car is the cars yeah it was bad eventually like the steering something in the steering thing broke and uh when you'd go to turn the wheel wouldn't turn so if you're coming up on a turn you'd be like oh god i'm gonna drive straight off the road into a tree and then it would just go pop and it would it would pop and it was it was dangerous i eventually had to stop driving it when i almost crashed a few times because the steering wouldn't work anymore well that's what he's like my car doesn't work you can't drive that anymore that's what he said and then uh yeah i ended up with that pickup truck we discussed and then a lady t-boned me really hard and twisted it and almost killed me. You did great with cars for a little bit.

No, I had a tough time there growing up. So, you know, Fred called the daughter there, the house at about nine o'clock. He wasn't at the party. He called the party. He did a call-in. You know, he did like a zoom an 85 zoom which is just i call on the house phone it's a birthday i'm gonna attend remotely ring ring happy birthday that's that was attending remotely in 1986 so uh he attends remotely and he is told

by debbie that you know mom's here too so fred says oh okay your mother's there he says well i'm at my parents house processing a deer so i'm not going to be able to make it ew you know it's what you do on your daughter's birthday party you process deer that's what i usually do that's a gross way of saying slaughtering this yeah i'm gonna quote process this deer and i'm unable to attend your your soiree tonight i'm sorry so um barry waits for harleen to come home she's got his car and everything else she's waiting he's waiting for her about 1 30 in the morning he calls again uh to say hey you know where's she left yet like what's going on here it's 1 30 i haven't she hasn't come home here you guys still partying and uh you know she's not there so he's like okay

that's weird he says the trip because the trip debbie's house was in new galilee that's the daughter uh to her house on sunflower road took about 25 30 minutes yeah she left at you know 9 45 or 10 45 right it's 1 30 in the morning what's going on here that's much more yeah so debbie's husband jeff and barry her boy harleen's boyfriend decide to drive along the route that you would normally take from one house to the other in case maybe her car broke down maybe she's in an accident she could be maybe her steering went out and she has one of those old mobiles it's maybe it's the same maybe it's a model problem this is a cutlass sierra was that your problem it just didn't work so um yeah they looked all around they know no broken down old mobile not wrapped around a tree nothing there

um not at all so later on that evening there they have kind of nowhere else to search uh they call the state police at that point yeah so i don't know what else to do she disappeared in the thin air she they call the state police now yeah and the state police at this point all they can do is put out a report is you know write a report and put out a thing keep keep an eye out for this and you you know, ask her what's up. I don't know if you would have to report the car, like, stolen for them to actually look for her right now because she's just an adult that's not around. She could be doing anything. She could have went to the casino.

Who the hell knows? And even then, they don't necessarily go look for the car. They just put a little tag in the system. And then if you put those numbers in, then that car pops up that something's wrong if you happen to be behind an oldsmobile run the tag see if it's this one that's all so now we're we go to findlay pennsylvania which is 25 miles away or so from doherty township from her sunflower road horse farm now it's about 2 45 a.m there's a guy named david kissow k-i-s-o-w kissow kissow david david arrives at his home uh this is in allegheny county so it's over the county line here he's got also donald myrdo with him m-e-e-r-d-o they had been christmas shopping

that night isn't that nice because we're in december it's december 16th yep that's right around now weird it's a little early for dads to be shopping but all right yeah isn't that funny how yeah december 16th jesus christ you must be in trouble yeah um so they've been christmas shopping and after that this is what dad's dude though is they were christmas shopping and then stopped at a bar afterwards. You betcha. They were like, that was terrible. Jesus Christ.

They got bags all around the stools and shit. Just pounding beers. For Christ's sake. It's like the Christmas tree farm. And then just, yeah. We went to a Christmas tree farm with Sarah and Jimmy and myself and my brother and his family. And we were watching people fighting while they were joyously carrying this wonderfully freshly cut Christmas tree. That's like beautiful.

And they're just like, yeah, you grow up. No, you grow up. They're arguing. Husbands and wives. We say it should be called Angry father's christmas tree farms that's what it should be called because it's just angry fathers with like a tree under one hand and like a kid under the other arm holding a saw also unsafely like that's supposed to be a memory that we all just made take the picture all right let's go we couldn't just stop at the grocery store parking lot and pick one up huh okay i was having a great time me too we were

laughing into their other conversations i was laughing i was cracking up laughing at them i would be laughing my ass off at these people arguing over christmas trees i said oh you guys made a memory the dad says there better be something strong in that to coffee yeah that was wonderful oh man so these two guys christmas shopping stopped at a bar shopping closes what nine ten o'clock here it's 2 45 in the morning so they spent probably more time at the bar than they did shopping probably so uh upon their arrival at the house they noticed a car that's not anybody's car that they know. It's not ours? Not our car, parked against, backed against his garage, this David Kiesow. The keys are in the ignition. It's an Oldsmobile.

Oh. They go, okay. They remove the keys from the ignition. They look around the car and look under it. They look, you know, backseat. They look under the seats. There's nothing there. They're like, I don't understand what's going on here.

Who just leaves a car with the keys in the ignition in the middle of the night in my driveway right i've heard of dumping cars but not on somebody's driveway backed like backed in nicely against the garage like with the keys in the ignition it's very strange so they eventually when they run out of ideas they pop the trunk you know like fuck it man pop the trunk see you know, like, fuck it, man. Pop the trunk. See if there's any, you know, identification in there or something. So they pop the trunk and they open the trunk. And what they find is horrific. They find a badly beaten, battered and shot body of a woman, a woman in there. And it is Harleen Mayhew.

Oh, no. in there and uh it is harleen mayhew oh no uh what has been done to her is been killed three times over we'll explain in a second but absolutely decimated here um upon making the discovery myrto the second guy there he said holy shit this is a horribly murdered bloody body of a woman we should call the police right now clearly that's what seems like oh my god that's your immediate reaction correct reaction

Kisau though grabs his arm says not so fast not so fast he says hold on here we can't do we can't we can't call the cops can't do that then he said to this myrtle guy quote if i don't get rid of the car i'm gonna be a dead man what this myrtle's holding he's holding like macy's and kb toys bags you know what i mean like how are you talking about

i'm fucking i'm domestic beer drunk holding a bunch of fucking christmas presents and you're i didn't expect any of this shit to happen and now i gotta like what i'm listening to you talk about you're a dead man what the fuck are you talking about yeah now you're like sammy the bull gravano over here what is happening what are we doing so he said seriously don't call the cops and myrto was like yeah yeah no problem yeah i won't call the cops and he went right inside and called the cops he's like i'm just gonna go inside and pay real quick. Very normal guy is what this is. This is fucked. I'm calling the fucking cops.

This is crazy. The call comes in at 2.59 a.m. So it took him like you figure they found the car. That probably took six, seven minutes. It took him less than 10 minutes to call the cops from Keysal going, I'll be a dead man if the cops are involved. Yeah. Not giving a shit. So they end up calling

the cops like we said and uh this is it's barry's car that harleen was driving it's harleen in the car um it's the newspaper account of it's very funny too not funny obviously for obvious reasons but the way they they initially report it is like these guys were like horrified and immediately called the cops. They said, quote, the two men opened two men, opened the trunk, saw what was in it and immediately called Finley police. Well, that was a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit a little bit different here.

Barry was her. That's her friend. It's her friend it's her car they say blood was found in the driveway also of we'll find out later when police arrive there's a blood found all over the place now this is in Allegheny County but they say that they're also going to hand it over to the Doherty the Doherty Township Police because that's where she's from and they think that's where it started as we'll we'll talk about that there um now she's 50 years old by the way harleen um now detectives homicide detectives with the allegheny county police uh show up here coroner's office is in here this is a huge deal

this is a uh this looks like some kind of crazy hit bay points bulletin oh yeah this is wild three o'clock in the morning some 50 year old lady she's not like somebody like oh wow well we we knew it was just a matter of time before we'd find him in the trunk of a car you know yeah it's not like that shit so they examine the trunk of the car they observe the body they say she's been severely beaten in the face uh the face is pointing toward the trunk of the car they observe the body they say she's been severely beaten in the face uh the face is pointing toward the trunk opening and her face is just destroyed her head doesn't look like it's the right shape anymore really put it that way uh her head's partially wrapped in a white scarf which appears to have a bullet hole in it. But due to the victim's extensive facial injuries,

they were unable to determine if she was shot just by looking at her. That's how badly her face was beaten. Two spent.25 caliber shell casings were found beside the vehicle. So outside the vehicle. Yeah. So the shots happened there, clearly. That's where the shell casings are, unless they dropped them there and said, oh, now this is the new scene. There's that.

Another thing they find here is a bloody, very, very bloody baseball bat that is positioned between Harleen's legs as well. Oh, my God. Seems to be positioned in a very specific way, you know, to put it mildly. Sure. Oh, my God. so it didn't just fall there off of her or something a very neatly folded up dollar bill is found on top of her body like right in the middle of her chest just sitting there very nicely so that looks fuck man that definitely a mob hit message it's but with a 50 year old lady riding horses it's a way you know like this is dangerous chick man she's danger we don't know what she's into the autopsy reveals and this fucking insane, that she was struck at least five times in the head with a baseball bat, had her throat crushed first manually, then by a metal window. Well, what?

So, like, over a window, like hanging somebody's head over a window and pushing down on it. Foot on the back of her head or something? Yeah. Which the window well finally broke before she died. She's tough, Harleen. No shit. Finally, after both attempts that would kill a lot of people, being bashed till your skull is busted apart and choked till a metal window frame broke uh finally shot twice in the head at close range uh her skull was broken in a lot of places sure five deep lacerations in the

skull and a lot of hemorrhaging and things like that uh these were consistent with blows from the baseball bat which was found bloody with her matter on it between her legs there. Her neck bone was also fractured, which is the indication of strangulation, and it shows that she'd been shot between the eyes and in the left temple.

Just so perfect. Those are two very finite I am going for between the eyes. Those are both kill shots is what I'm saying. I mean, they went in and did both here. They found two.25 caliber bullets in her skull, sorry, in her head, matching the casings down there.

They said the minimal hemorrhaging along the tracks of these bullets indicated she'd still been alive when she was shot. So she just wouldn't die. She just wouldn't die. They said cause of death trauma to the head, whether it be gunshot or, you know, the brain being beaten in.

He was of the opinion that it was a beating first, then the strangling, then the shooting based on the way the injuries go. Somebody watched too much tv and thought those were just gonna do it easy yeah i'll just beat her with a baseball bat and she'll die oh no i'll just strangle her and she'll die oh shit and then put two shots to temple in the forehead though that'll actually do it those are that'll do it every time so after they find her body they go to her house on sunflower road let's go to the horse farm and see if we can find

anything there right away they discover they get out of the car walk up big patches of blood in the driveway near the entrance of the garage good clues so whoa hey look at that didn't have to look too far for that shit it's the blood had been covered with gravel and leaves so somebody kicked some shit over it in an attempt to conceal it but it just looked like a pile of gravel and leaves. So somebody kicked some shit over it? In an attempt to conceal it, but it just looked like a pile of gravel and leaves in your driveway, which is not a normal place that you have piles of debris, usually,

being that you drive on it a lot. Usually, you keep your driveway pretty clear. So all it did was just draw attention to it. You're like, hey, what's up with those piles of leaves and gravel? Oh, look, there's big bloodstains under that. Look at that. What are those headstones doing in that field right there?

I wonder if that's a cemetery. That's what it is. Yeah, I wonder. Oh, they fucking buried someone in here. There's a body under here. I'm serious. It's about six feet down. It's in a box.

It's fucking crazy. Come on over. Yeah. It's bonkers. So it's covered there in addition they find two buttons from her coat there and one of her gold earrings near one of the house's window wells wow she she really struggled so yeah they they're starting as they put together, they think that she was beaten and strangled here, driven to this location in the trunk. They pop the trunk.

She's still alive. Oh, wow. Like good fellas. Yep. Billy Batts is in the back seat there. So they dump two in her head and then fold in dollar bill and walk away here. So they originally believed that she was killed in her home, but now they think that obviously those gunshots were over there with the shell casings there and the determination that she was still alive. So, yeah, it's it's it's not.

So, David, kiss out. What is his deal? Why did he not want to call the cops, the cops, David? So they interview him initially and he initially just denies any knowledge of anything which obviously is ridiculous because they talk to his friend who his friend doesn't give a shit his friend's like we found a body it was fucked up then he said this that was messed up too like his friend had to get away from this guy call the cops yeah his friend's living the life of

someone who truly has nothing to do with this shit is what he's talking about like this is exactly what happened i didn't do it so he said that uh he denied anything and then there was a phone conversation so they didn't arrest him at first this they didn't know he yeah they have no proof of anything with him other than it was in his driveway. But he definitely didn't do it because he was at a bar and Christmas shopping for the last eight hours and with witnesses. So they have to let him go. And then finally, on December 21st, 1986, Kisau started fearing for his life. And that was after a phone conversation with Fred Mayhew.

life and uh that was after a phone conversation with fred mayhew he said he started fearing for his life and then he contacted police and said all right i'll cooperate i know more than i said i know so after the murder he actually went to the funeral home during the wake to pay his respects and everything the guy that just found the body i I found the body. Yeah, I felt terrible finding this body. Here, you know how that goes. This body from 30 miles away that who knows. That's where he ran into Fred, and he apologized to Fred for what has happened. He said, I'm sorry I had to call the cops, but I had to do it. My friend, he doesn't know anything, and he found it, and he went and called the cops. It just had to happen.

So Fred didn't say anything to him, Fred Mayhew. He like all right well we'll talk about it later and a few days later he receives a phone call from fred and he said that uh kissow said that he could hear from the sounds of fred's voice that he was angry yeah he couldn't exactly blow up at him at his wife's funeral that would that would have gone over that looks bad so he fred said i need to talk to you well we got to meet up it's one of those again so kiss ow said uh sure yeah i'll meet you and instead he went right to the police and said uh yeah listen um here's what happened i know i know this guy okay i know fredhew. He was a close friend of my dad's. My dad died in 1978.

And so I've known him for years and years and years. He said since 91 or 81, I'm sorry, Kisau saying that he'd been traveling to Colorado to do construction work out there in the summer months and then comes back to Pennsylvania in December through April. So that's what he does. He said upon his return in 1981 to the Pennsylvania area that Fred had approached him and asked him if he would chop up a car for him. He's like, you know anything about that? Getting rid of a car, chopping it up, kind of like I said, burying it. This is the other way to do it. Make it into parts that are no longer a car.

Kissow said, shit, yeah shit yeah no problem i got that i'm a migrant construction worker i will absolutely chop up a car are you fucking kidding me i go i try everybody those things that can they can tear apart a car oh god it's a guy that works on shit that's what i mean he's got tools amazing if he if he doesn't know someone he'll just do it himself. He's got a bunch of tools. He'll figure it out. I got saws and shit. I'll run that motherfucker over. I will figure it out.

It's going to get done. So, you know, he's like, yeah, absolutely. I can do that. No problem. payment for the proceeds of a cocaine sale made by kiss out for fred in 80 in 1980 okay now kiss out told fred that the coke got stolen from his house and so he couldn't he didn't you know i got shit out of luck they somebody jacked me none of it somebody jacked me so basically this is fred going okay well tell you what this now we're even you get rid of my car and then we'll be even on the on the coke fuck over so that's how that works so nobody this is all news to people they're like

wait fred mayhew does coke the sewer guy like these are all a bunch of upstanding people and then there's layers where there's a layer of up quote unquote upstanding people and then there's layers where there's a layer of up quote unquote upstanding people and then they have like these underlings like kissow who are like i'll chop the car up for you and move coke for you and yeah make sure you don't get in trouble so kissow said that um prior to this he had there had been other opportunities presented to him to even up the score basically to to get to repay it one was to rough up barry carl he said the uh his wife's boyfriend and his former financial advisor and also that he just said no i don't want to do that and he said oh you don't want to beat the guy up okay i got another one for you take this dynamite go blow somebody up okay can you do that

it's like i would didn't even want to beat the guy up what are you talking about i'm gonna blow somebody up now dynamite that's way worse yeah he thought that would be better like oh who you know here's some dynamite right it's less personal go put this in this guy's pocket for me yeah go go throw this in his coat pocket so he said that um uh kissow said that when he came back to pennsylvania in 82 um then that's when it turned into would you mind chopping up this car now it's different now it's would you mind chopping up a car if it had a body in it do you think you could you think you could chop it up then which is a way harder thing to get rid of yeah that's way different it's fascinating that

he was approached with take care of this car and take it apart for me and then he comes home from shopping he sees a car that he doesn't know anything about it doesn't register in his head maybe that's the car he wants me to take apart well that was three years ago this is happening in 82 the driveway is december christmas season of 85 so it was years ago i don't remember no this this has been good yeah you'd be like oh weird car refresh my memory oh with a body in the trunk now i remember yeah so he said i i mean i guess but you know depend on the circumstances or that sort of shit he's trying to stall him and you know keep blow him off basically so then this kiss out says that fred repeated this request every time kiss

out would come back for the winter from 82 to 80 85 yeah every time so he got back in september and fred paid him a visit you know goes to kiss out's house and asked him if he thought about this at all he said you know she thought about if you chop up a car with a body in it kiss out said he was in a hurry and he took off quick so he's just been stalling for like five four years now he said that he next heard from uh fred a few weeks later when fred called and told him that he shouldn't be surprised if he found a car in his driveway yeah so that's how he knew that's why he said if i don't get rid of this car i'm a dead man because this has been the thing that he's been talking about for four years would you chop up a car with a body in it so he said that's when he found the car and that's how that's that's how that worked that was his involvement in it so the police talked to fred

obviously he's interviewed right away the day the more the morning of the 16th like who would want this person dead oh there's still divorce proceedings going on where they're fighting over a million dollars let's talk to him like and this guy's already shady as fuck and he's shady as fuck they find him they find her license at like 3 15 in the morning and no it's her they're talking to him by six like it's instant she's not even processed yet and back in the at the morgue and they're already talking to him so uh he says nah i don't know what you're talking about i was processing a deer until 9 30 um then i went home sat here alone went to sleep what do you want from me you know you got that after that post deer glow going on

you want to just go home and take a nice nap that's playing god for the evening yeah yeah it's it's a good feeling so frederick mayhew's sister fred's sister also says he was home watching tv on that night that's i don't know what you're talking about there. His other sister says that he played Scrabble with her and went out to dinner with the family on another day, too, which we'll talk about. So I don't know what you're talking about. This is crazy because they ask him also, hey, where were you on the day that Earl Spann was buried? And he's like, I was out with the family and playing Scrabble. So he's got alibis like crazy joan mayhew who's his sister testified that she called her brother at his condo at the beaver

lakes country club in aliquippa at about 12 30 p.m and found him at home she said uh i think he had fallen asleep in his chair because he was grumpy. They said, yeah. He said that then they talked to somebody else that contradicts this whole thing. That is a guy that's, I'm sorry, Stephen Guevara. Remember the guy who turned in Earl Spann? He says that he was talking to former rochester commissioner it's an elected commissioner of the town of rochester named james harden now obviously it's with an eye but i am picturing a guy with a big beard dribbling a basketball very well so how great he's gonna do he's actually a

fat white guy with a mustache but picture j Harden because it'll be easier to differentiate people in the story. So there's a lot of people are going to pop up. So he says that James Harden talked to him. Guevara does in the driveway while Fred Mayhew beat Harleen with a baseball bat outside of her home at about 1130. Oh, my God. Which is right about when she would have got home. Yeah. She said he said he saw that. at about 11 30 oh my god which is right about when she would have got home um yeah she said he said he saw that he saw her try to strangle uh his wife and then throw her in the trunk and leave

he saw the whole thing he saw the whole thing yeah um yeah it's pretty crazy but her brother or his sister though says no way um fred may you sister sandra, says that that not not true at all. We're playing Scrabble the one night watching TV the other night. I don't know what you're talking about. This is all bullshit. That's literally what it is. And Spann, by the way, was a contractor and was also a suspected arsonist in another case. And the whole thing that they're thinking is that he might have been hired to kill someone but failed to do the job, so he was killed himself. I understand that anybody

who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official jinx podcast we'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max

starting april 21st bye bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morb Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Okay. Okay. Who the hell is James Harden? Okay. I'd love to know. Town of Rochester Township elected commissioner and former police officer.

Great guy. So a very upstanding fella there. Town of Rochester Township elected commissioner and former police officer. So a very upstanding fellow there. They believe that Harden, who's a very close friend of Fred Mayhew, acted as the lookout talking to the neighbor while Fred Mayhew tried to kill his wife. Yeah, that's they did it together. They were a team in this aspect here. They were a team in this aspect here. They two women who were witnesses nearby neighbor neighbors picked out James Harden and a mugshot lineup and identified him as the man they saw sitting in a car near Harleen's house five days before she was fatally shot. So just kind of stalking the house and looking at shit. It's Patricia Bradley and Brenda Spear. They testified at a hearing about the whole thing, saying that that's what they saw.

They saw him and they identified his car. The whole deal. I mean, it was him there. Their sisters, they said they were driving to their mother's house on the morning of December 11th. And they passed a blue late model sedan near the mayhew's property there and uh yeah they showed them eight pictures eight men's pictures and they both independently picked out harden's picture and the car so i think they probably you know i think they probably did a good job there yeah um they said that it makes it look like harden was probably stalk Harleen, and that's not good for him. Very bad evidence here.

So early in the afternoon of the 16th, this is the day that they found the body that night. The Rochester Township Police Department chief, Charles Zarrillo, he heard of the murder of Harleen and went over to James Harden's house because James is the elected police public safety commissioner for Rochester Township. He should certainly know about this. He does. And he's a very good friend of Fred's. And everybody knows that because this is all very small areas here. Zarrillo arrives at the house. He said that Harden was speaking with Steve Guevara who is as we know him

he's been popped up a couple times he said he stopped talking to Guevara went over to Zarrillo the cop and said that he just learned about the murder from Guevara he said he would probably become involved in the investigation because he had been with Fred the previous evening like I was with him so I might be his

alibi here meanwhile Fred told them he processed a deer went home by himself by himself and his sister said he was at our house so the whole crabby in a chair yeah it's crabby in a chair so so it's it's pretty pretty goddamn interesting so harden uh he says that fred called him the evening of the 15th asked for a ride home he said he picked him up took him home stayed with him until about 1230 a.m. He said they watched Monday Night Football and had a few beers. All right.

Why not? He then relayed the, you know, told him that. That's what he did. A few days later, Harden told this same cop that Harleen had died at 2 a.m. and that had not been released to the public at all. He shouldn't have known any kind of time of death or anything like that. So Zarrillo says he ends up,

this cop ends up relaying this to the homicide detectives. Hey, this guy, pretty sure of time of death when he shouldn't be. That was a bit too much. That was a little too much here. That's a little weird. You might want to look into that. So they end up going to, they arrange an interview with Harden.

This is on the evening of December 16th, so right then. Harden tells the troopers that on the 15th, he was babysitting until 10 p.m., drove Mayhew home, watched TV. He was home by 1 o'clock in the morning. So they said, they did note that Harden was nervous throughout the interview, and they knew that his statement was inconsistent with Fred Mayhew's, but they didn't confront him with that yet. They wanted to hold off on that. So then they learn that another officer in the Rochester Township Police, after concluding an investigation with the Game Commission on the

evening of the 15th, returned to the police police station he said that when he arrived at the station between 8 30 and 8 45 on the 15th this is while she's still at the daughter's party harden was there and uh announced to this cop that he was expecting a visitor and when the visitor arrived, Harden wanted the cop to go away so they could talk. 25 minutes later, Fred walked into the police station. Night of the 15th. This cop said that he knew Fred from a prior occasion and just said hello. He said that he, the cop said he left the station

about five minutes later per James Harden's request. When he returned to the station after 11, everybody was gone. He said, this cop said next time he saw Harden's request. When he returned to the station after 11, everybody was gone. He said this cop said next time he saw Harden two days later, they talked at the police station. Harden told this cop that he had been at Fred's house the night of the 15th watching football and that Fred was using him as an alibi. And then Harden said, asked him if he remembered Harden's telling him that night that they were going to watch football, which he said that he doesn't remember that at all, but that's fine. He just said that I went outside, then I came back, and everybody was gone.

He's like, remember that alibi I gave you for that night that we were watching? Remember? We said we were going to go watch football? Remember the whole reason that you didn't kill your wife? They could say they were going cow tipping. It doesn't matter what they tell him what they're going to do. They went and killed that dude's wife after that. So they end up arresting Harden later on.

They're going to arrest him on February 6th for all his stories. But when they walk into his house to arrest him, this is after all these interviews, two months have gone by. They say you're under arrest for homicide. And he says, says quote which one is this for oh no that's not what you want to hear well you want to hear it if you're a homicide detective you're like oh we're gonna clear some shit up here but that's not what his lawyer wants him to say when he gets arrested for homicide quote which one is this for never get clarity on a specific murder good god oh i guess we'll

go talk about this they probably would have told you eventually they'll let you know he then said i imagine it's for mrs may you huh so that's a bad sign too because they're like hey this guy's fucking clairvoyant over here so um yeah harden who is a former constable and a constable and rochester township police officer township commissioner then he said nothing while they were driving him uh when they were alone in the hallway of a magistrate's office harden said quote i didn't beat her with a baseball bat and i didn't shoot her they can only get me for conspiracy he just blurts this out to cops that are fucking waiting outside a judge's office to arraign him. I didn't do anything of the information that only the guy that did it knows.

Nope. What the murder weapon is. I didn't do any of that stuff. Just the conspiracy. So that's pretty fucking funny. so that's pretty fucking funny uh later on his lawyer is going to say that while making small talk in the car on the way to the office the officers had elicited statements from him and uh they didn't ask him any direct questions but their small talk induced him into blurting out his fucking murder conspiracy that's pretty good small talk i don't know about you but that

is solid you're a good small talker have you ever had people just burst out with murder conspiracies that's i can lead people down the old uh what do you do are you married how many kids you got i can get down that path pretty quickly this is mighty powerful small talk here this is impressive they must have really talked about the weather and known what was going to happen and right known what the cloud formations were and everything. This is some serious small talk. Holy shit. Your daughter's going to what school now? Oh, it tells me everything.

Staying in the dorms. Wow. Good for her. That's going to be a fun experience for her. How long was this ride? How long does it take to get there? That's so great. No shit.

That's, oh my God. So he said that they end up saying that the reason this is because the detective said, quote, I hope you remember the last three words your wife spoke to you on your way out the door. And that's because he was like trying to fuck with him and he said uh then the detective said i thought we had fred mayhew good until we got you we've got you really good oh boy this is all like kind of shit talking non-sequiturs basically did she say i love you i think she said i love you yeah um see you see you later. Bye, asshole. Those are two separate words.

Bye, fuckhead. Pick up milk. So they said that this is going to end up going to Beaver County. They kind of fight over jurisdiction for a minute here. Fred finally gets arrested here december 22nd 86 so it only took like four days five six days for the arrest to happen but it's not just harden because harden really hasn't all he said is i can only get me on conspiracy he hasn't mentioned fred's name other than to say that we were watching football together so So they need more. How do they get more? Small talk.

Here we go. We just got rid of the onion. Now comes the artichoke. This is the underlayer of a spiky, weird fucking vegetable. Okay. Wayne Shackleford, 31 years old. Let's bring him into the picture. What do you say?

At the time of Harleen's death, Wayne was incarcerated in the Beaver County Jail. Now he sees a television news report concerning the murder and tells a fellow inmate, Alfonso Pitrell, that I know Fred and I and I have had some dealings with him, quote, concerning his wife. So they're like, interesting. Wayne Shackelford is what they call quote a petty criminal and heroin user so why would you have any dealings with his wife in the county jail here um he said uh this is fucking funny now wayne by the way told fred because he knows him that if he's involved in the conspiracy against Harleen,

there's, quote, nothing to worry about with me if I ever get caught. My lips are sealed. Sealed. So, the cellmate, Pitrell, immediately relays this information to the warden. This Fort Knox level inside of a vault and safe fucking, wow, information. Depending on if i can get my own cell i may open this fortnight i may do if my toilet is better i could you put me in a cell with a better toilet i think i might do this so the warden immediately contacts the police obviously and the police arrange to interview the shackleford so shackle, okay, I got to tell you something that happened to do this. We

have to go back to 1986 in September. Okay. Now he tells in September of 86, he told his law, his lawyer about all this, by the way, a murder conspiracy, but the lawyer didn't say anything because of attorney client privilege. So, but this was an ongoing murder conspiracy with a live person still in 86 harleen was still alive and the lawyer knew of an ongoing murder conspiracy against her responsibility to disclose that even a priest has to has to fucking go to the car even a psychiatrist goes to has to go to a car literally if they know of imminent danger to somebody they have to go to the fucking cops. It's the only circumstance where they can break your privilege. A mandatory reporter or whatever it's called? So, yeah.

I mean, she's alive still. Like, this is crazy. So, wow. There's another guy here. Jesus Christ. Okay. So, there's another guy, gibson guy and he's told the authorities that uh he watched harden and guevara quote bury a big cow on april 5th 1985 on guevara's landfill in new suically beaver county

new suically uh the big cow turned out to be span so anyway shackleford uh they talked to him he admits to the police that fred had solicited him to kill harleen mayhew but that all of the attempts had been unsuccessful now this is a this is a fucking comedy of errors here he describes fred and shackleford's attempts to kill his harleen he first met fred in the beaver county jail when he was there on contempt charges in 1985 met Fred in the Beaver County Jail when he was there on contempt charges in 1985, obviously. How else do they know each other?

So after they were both released, they met on the street. And it was a chance meeting, they said. They didn't even set it up. They were like, hey, I know you from jail. Hey, what's up, dude? Small town, man. That's what happens. So during the course of their conversation, this

guy that I saw in county jail that i just ran into on the street i don't know how long this conversation was but it was long enough for fred at some point to go hey you're looking for 10 000 bucks maybe not only 10 000 bucks i also can get you a pound of quote high grade cocaine all you have to do is kill my wife fair pretty that's one of the steeper prices that i've heard of that's pretty i mean that sounds like it's real like that's not an undercover cop that's that's that's they're offering real shit here uh but you don't even know this guy you just knew him from county jail briefly some junkie from county jail right we've shared powdered soap

together it's yeah you let me borrow your toothpaste one time this is crazy so they also discussed three possible plans for carrying out the murder okay so there's a we're dealing off the bottom of the deck here uh one plan included bludgeoning her to death with a baseball bat another plan different time different plan involved shooting her in the head and a third uh plan involved arranging it to look as if it was done in the course of a robbery okay so that's how he escalated we'll beat her with a baseball bat shooting her be easier and cleaner you know what let's just make believe it's a robbery. That way we don't look bad. So when they settled, they decide, let's mix them all together and make it not look like a robbery at all. All the ideas and we'll put it in this guy's driveway and leave a folded up dollar bill in a very precarious position where it's obvious to law enforcement that this was staged here. And yeah let's make it all together make it look like lucky luciano did it yeah let's make it look like she sleeps with the fishes what do you say

fucking ridiculous so wow fred was assuring shackleford the whole time even if we don't do it clean and good don't worry about it because i know judges and lawyers that'll help us out if we if anything goes wrong here. This is all very corrupt. I know Harden. He's a commissioner. He knows all the cops. He's the police commissioner in this other town.

He'll get us off. So they exchanged phone numbers. Fred and Shackelford began meeting on a regular basis. Shackelford said that he never planned on killing Harleen but just wanted to see what he could get out of Fred. See if he could get a down payment he could steal and go buy fucking heroin with or something. Which, if you're looking for a guy looking to hire a hitman, maybe you don't want to screw that guy over with money first. That guy's clearly a very angry man. But, you know what?

Maybe you do screw that guy over because he obviously can't kill anybody exactly otherwise he'd just save his money and do it himself and snort all that cocaine when he was done and then just go i'm the king of fuck mountain ah stand on top of it with a face doesn't even know anybody that's capable because he's asking a heroin addict yeah what do you think that he met in county so shackleford thought that if he appeared to go along with the scheme fred would give him a job at his company that's what he was angling for not even a pound of cocaine he wanted a job i'll kill for a job you've ever heard anyone say that i want that job so bad i'll kill for it this guy was dead ass serious it's a good job shackleford

was able to get an initial payment of 500 from fred after shackleford told him that he needed quote certain equipment before he could go to the residence it's walking around money 500 bucks he laid fred later gave shackleford another 700 to buy a gun and a 10 speed bike you can get both of them for 700 bucks yeah you can and a half gram of the high grade cocaine that he offered him so he could test its quality to know that it's worth it i'd give him a taste of it he's gonna kill anybody for this shit when he's done with that the bike was was supposed to facilitate shackleford's escape after he shot harleen he was gonna drive away on a fucking 10 speed jimmy wow on a on a 10 speed bike imagine that there's that big hill there's that big hill i better get a 10 speed so he can lighten it up on

that big hill otherwise i'm gonna have to walk it halfway up that thing once you murder someone you don't have to want to have to walk your back it's just you know you're feeling good and strong and the next thing you know you're in the fourth grade, and you're in a crosswalk, and it just ruins it for me. So, wow. Following these, quote, payments, then Fred gave Shackleford a.22 caliber pistol, which they practiced shooting at a local gun range.

They really put time into this. He went target practice. People have hobbies they don't spend half as much time on, you know? They have kids they don't spend as much time with. Just getting them comfortable with the weapon because point blank range, who needs to go to the fucking gun range to shoot that? It's just this has been over months. This isn't like a week. This just keeps going on like, well, this is our project that that we're doing this week we're going to a gun range it's

like a reality show like will we kill harleen you know and by episode eight they're at a gun range and the plan's set in motion let's see that finale shooting it shooting it 30 50 feet when you're gonna put the gun against somebody's temple what the fuck man and on the on the finale surprise one of the real housewives shows up yeah that's what goes on here so the gun was obviously supposed to be used to kill harleen however shackleford just gave the gun to a friend of his sylvester waters then waters tried to sell the gun, but was arrested for possessing it, being an ex-convict. So that was gone. The gun is confiscated. So that's one dead end.

You're going to have to get another gun. We're going to need a bigger boat and another gun. Somebody's going to have to go back and get a shitload of dimes. shitload of dimes so once that they began meet to meet regularly at that point fred took shackleford to harleen's residence four or five times to show him the way on one of the occasions they were accompanied by james harden so he's in on this plot from the beginning according to shackleford fred and harden picked him up and drove him to a country road near Harleen's residence. And Fred was dressed in camouflage clothing, led Shackleford through the woods to her house. This is fucking ridiculous.

When they got to her house, Fred identified the various buildings on the property saying, you know, blah, blah, blah. Here's what she looks like. She hangs out in here. If she's not here, she might be over there. Then a truck arrived at the property and they ran away into the woods like children then he's in camouflage they can't see you man still through the woods then fucking fred whips out a walkie talkie that he's got with him where he contacts harden who then picks them up this is so silly this is great this is amazing on the ride back to this guy cleans shitters industrial shit

pipes he is paul calhoun in real life and he's god damn it so on the ride back to shackleford's home to drop him off the harden and fred decided that shackleford could find his way through the woods he can make it he can do it and that the back road shackleford could find his way through the woods he could make it he can do it and that the back road would be the drop-off point when the time came to kill her so they try this a couple of times they drive him to the road behind the residence so he could kill her and uh we'll find out what happens here attempt one shackleford wandered in the woods after harden dropped him off at the spot. He couldn't find the house and later said that he was unable to find his way to the residence and needed to be picked up.

Maybe next time give me a compass. I don't know. I can't find it. Attempt one. Lost in the dark woods. Okay. Oh, there he is. This whole episode, this whole plot is lost in the woods.

That's the thing. Attempt two. Fred places reflector tags on the trees to guide the path to the fucking house. Reflector tags on the trees to guide the way. He drives him to the spot, lets him out. It's got a reflective fucking line. By the way, the cops aren't going to notice that. Right.

When they're halfway to the house. Jesus Christ. This time, Shackleford follows the reflectors all the way up there. Can't fail now, right? Right. What? No. Once he gets there, he just sat and watched the horses, he said.

He just sat by. I picture him eating like a bag of Dor doritos like one of those little grab bag of doritos just like this is nice that whole way gonna kill gonna kill gonna kill gets there and goes nobody said there was fucking horses this is beautiful sat there and he's just a crunch crunch i picture him at one point he went he nodded and he went this is nice i really feel like he did this is nice right now i he went this is nice i really feel like he did this is nice right now i needed this this is good i feel very refreshed okay i got there saw the horses lost all the steam to murder they were beautiful they were gorgeous these these majestic they were

majestic these animals i saw them and i said you know what if if this is one of god's creatures i ain't gonna kill another one of god's creatures tell you what right now listen fred you ever seen a horse lay down and scratch its back it's adorable there's no way you can murder after that it's kind of hilarious and adorable at the same time you should come on with me through the woods it's the path is lit let's go so he watches the horses again went home without committing the murder. Just this is nice. Attempt three. Attempt three. Attempt three.

Lost the course. I thought I saw a quarter. You know, I saw a bright light in the sky. It stood me still in my tracks. My legs felt like they were concreted to the ground. And next thing you know, I was being beamed up to a ship. Turns out it was the moon I was hallucinating. It's wild.

Tip three, don't take acid before you attempt to kill people. So Shackleford tells Harden this night that he, quote, didn't feel like killing her that evening. And this is to tells harden that and asked harden to tell him tell fred that i'd gone to tell him i went there but there was something happened and i couldn't do it i don't feel like doing it but just tell him i tried give him like a yeah i went over there and there was like a bunch of people were there and you know how it goes i had to turn around i watched the horses for a while i got hungry hungry, brought a tuna fish with me. I ate the tuna fish sandwich, and then I was full.

Can't murder on an empty stomach. Also, not on a full stomach. Yeah, that's why that bag of Doritos was perfect, but the horses were so goddamn majestic. I just watched them and said, fuck it. Now I just need to go back home. Feeling too good. This is incredible.

So Harden says, okay, that's fine. I'll tell them, you know, whatever. Let's go to dinner. So they went out to dinner at the Red Bull Inn. This is pre-Red Bull. So this is just, there's probably a big, I assume a big neon Red Bull outside. So Fred at that point changes his plan on how the murder should be carried out. This fucking idiot's not going to do it here.

He told Sh shackleford that look this is what you can do all right i'll make it simple for you you seem like a fucking dummy let's do it listen you can do this you kill her bang bang done you put her body in the car you drive it over to key sal's rest house over there and he's gonna chop it up and dispose of it all you gotta do is kill her throw her in a fucking trunk and drive her over to this house leave the ignition cars keys in the ignition how fucking stupid are you can you do that and he was like i guess so so um at this point shackleford said like there was no way to he has blown it a bunch of times, and this guy just keeps coming back with more, you know, with more, you can do it.

So, with more encouraging words. So, he's like, I don't want to do this. It's not working. He needs a Phil Jackson. So, Shackelford said, okay, can't go to the cops because, you know, I'm in the middle of a murder plot. He's going to make me murder her. I don't want to murder her. How do I fix this?

I'll go tell her about it. So Mayhew decides. It's amazing. Shackleford decides to warn Harleen Mayhew of Fred's plot to kill her. This is crazy. So on June 10th, 86, six months before she's killed, he calls her from a residence in Ambridge without identifying himself, tells her that her life is in danger and that she should be careful.

All right. Now, from then on, Fred would never talk to Shackleford again. So apparently she took that random warning from a stranger that was completely unidentified and went, Fred's trying to kill me because she knew. Okay. So enter Edward Lau. L-A-U. That's Lau, right? L-A-U?

Lau. Sure is. Edward Lau. He's 21. Let's get younger and younger. He is a former busboy at the Sheraton hotel and station square. So there you go. A former bus boy.

Not even a current bus boy and not even a current bus boy. Former one. Um, he was recruited by, uh, all of these idiots here to commit the murder as well. Um, he is pulled into this group. Uh,

he, this is ridiculous. Okay focus on lau um here comes another ridiculous fucking deal here he said him and his friend mccarthy made two trips to doherty in february of 1985 fucking 10 months before she's killed yeah uh wants to tour the area and once to commit the murder. He'd had a ski mask, gloves, handgun. He said that Lau testified that he offered three or four hundred dollars to his friend to drive him to the house to telling his friend that we're going to pick up stolen goods when he was really going to murder the woman. That was the plan here now we'll talk about this april 17th 85 lau and danny farrell are discovered parked outside harleen's residence all right that evening lau had knocked on her door telling her that his car had broken down and that he needed water she refused to open the door and told lau to go down the road to the gas station. She then called the police. When the police arrived,

they found them slouched down in Farrell's car in a parking lot on her property. They won't see us if we're in the car. Yeah. Shit, put your head down. You're on her property. It's not on the road. You're not in a fucking Safeway parking lot. You're on her property.

Asking for water. my god so they search the vehicle they find a ski mask lighter fluid and a loaded 25 caliber automatic pistol so they have a kind of a full kit here uh how they how this ever happened how anybody ever died is baffling this that's what I mean. This is crazy. The gun was traced to Walter Gimbiss of Ohio. Gimbiss had sold the gun to Jerry McCarthy, the guy that Lau was with here, or was with originally, between September 81 and May 82. McCarthy then gave the gun to Lau, and Lau was arrested for possessing the gun as well as loitering and prowling.

So when the cops arrest him, Lau says, he tells the cops the gun's his, and he purchased it at a bar in McKee's Rocks, and that he and Farrell had just gotten lost and their car broke down. So I don't know what you're talking about. He pled guilty to firearms violation and received a five-year probation. He's lucky that gun isn't traced to a murder somewhere already. You brought a gun to a parking lot at a bar. It's probably got a body on it. It's got something wrong with it. Yeah, it's not going to be perfect.

So now shortly after Harleen's actual murder, detectives went to Lau's residence to question him because he was found outside stalking the house with a gun and some fucking same caliber gun that this woman was killed with. So, you know, this is interesting. Lau told detectives he went to the house in April of 85 in order to rob it. Then they contacted Lau's attorney to arrange a meeting with him. And during that meeting, Lau decided to cooperate with police in their investigation. So this leads to Jared, uh, Gerard McCarthy,

the guy who bought the gun originally, Jerry McCarthy. Now, uh, Lau says that in January 85, he had been solicited by Jerry McCarthy to kill, to kill, uh,

Harleen Mayhew. He was working at a bus as the bus boy at the sheraton at that point he met mccarthy who tended bar at the same hotel and mccarthy often sold cocaine to lau and they partied together sometimes every bartender has cocaine to sell doesn't matter how upstanding they look there's cocaine under that fucking bar to buy every time or they know where it is in two seconds without leaving behind the bar they can get it for you right did he hear somewhere that busboys just murder people does he think that that's just what happens well if you need like a coffee they'll go get you one so i guess he figured like

you you asked for extra parmesan cheese they might run and grab it i guess he figured maybe you could yeah sometimes if you see the tip well you just go, have you seen my server? They'll go get them, and then you can get anything you want. So maybe you thought, have you seen my murderer? Go find him. Can you kill my wife? Anybody? No?

All right. Well, I guess I'll take some more black pepper then. Sure. Why not? Unreal. So Lau said McCarthy drove him out there, pointed out the house where it's supposed to get done. Then McCarthy drove to a nearby bar and introduced Lau to a young man at the bar and told Lau that the man would help him get out of Beaver County if he needed help.

McCarthy drove past the home of Ronald Nish, a friend of McCarthy and Harden, and told Lau that he could also go here for assistance. Here are your safe houses to go to. They drive back to Pittsburgh. McCarthy tells Lau that the job was to kill the lady who lived in the house where they went. He said the lady's husband wanted her dead because of their divorce and was willing to pay $10,000.

Gives him the loaded.25 pistol. Tells him to make sure that the hit does not look professional. Make it look sloppy. I don't think that Lau is capable of anything else, honestly. We think Lau's going to make it look sloppy i don't think that lau is capable of anything else honestly we think lau's gonna make this look like a fucking like the gambino family did it no he's he seems sloppy at best yeah he's this is ridiculous they're sending people that need bicycles as getaway they can't find their way through the fucking woods and get distracted

staring at horses so he said either hit her with a baseball bat, stab her, or strangle her. He said McCarthy explained that if Lou hit her in the head with the bat, it would be just like hitting a watermelon. No big deal. He'll just pop it. He also told Lau that if he were caught, everything would be taken care of because they all know people in Beaver County and it'll be nice and corrupt.

So McCarthy also warned Lau not to grab the wrong person because someone else had done that. know people in beaver county and we'll you know well it'll be nice and corrupt so mccarthy also warned lau not to grab the wrong person because someone else had done that grab the wrong person at one point he also told lau that he wouldn't want to know what happened to him if he said anything to anybody like i wouldn't even want to know what happened to you if you said something to the cops you're going to get murdered even worse meanwhile they have to hire this idiot to kill this guy so who are they going to hire to kill him so about a week later mccarthy asked lau when are you going to kill this broad what are you doing you know you're going to kill her or what lau said he needs a ride out to the property hit men without wheels man what the fucking no it's not on the bus route man that's

why it's taking so long transportation is part of any hitman application. Do you have your own transportation? No, I'm not giving you a 10-speed bicycle. That's ridiculous. So McCarthy arranges to use his girlfriend's car, and then as he and his girlfriend and Lau all travel to Mayhew's residence. Let's get as many people in this conspiracy as possible. Now she's involved in it. Wow.

McCarthy drops Lau off on a road behind the residence. Lau follows a creek to the victim's house at the time. Lau said he just sat behind her house behind the garage and then told McCarthy later that nobody was home. She's so lucky. The laziest hitman in the history of the world um and dumbest and easiest to he found guys with add yeah they'll watch horses they sit behind a garage not even a phone to dick around with he just sat there for a couple hours it's so on instagram mccarthy told lau that he can't drive him to the property since i want to have an alibi for when the murder occurred i don't

know what i was thinking last time but this time i'm thinking i can't drive him to the property since I want to have an alibi for when the murder occurred. I don't know what I was thinking last time, but this time I'm thinking I can't drive you out there. He said, let me know when you're going to do the murder so I can arrange to be where people are going to see me. And then he gave Lau one of the keys to one of the buildings on the property as well

as a floor plan of Harleen's house. So he arranged for his friend Danny Farrell to drive him to the house, told him they were going to pick up stolen goods. They arrived. Lau walked up to the residence. You know what happened. They get arrested scooching down in a car with all of the things to rob and kill this woman.

So... What do you charge those guys with? Loitering and... Attempted burglary and firearms possession. All kinds of stuff, right? Yeah, all sorts of ticky-tack shit here. He... those guys with loitering and attempted burglary and firearms uh possessions stuff right yeah all sorts of ticky tack shit here um he the judge described lau's story as nonsense when he goes to trial and said that he suspected lau was quote out there for no good and uh i would say so he said lau admitted afterwards that the judge was correct literally said that judge

was right later on he nailed it so there's another guy here uh the district attorney edward talk tachi he came back uh into the he gets into this case and he represented fred mayhew during the divorce oh so he had to turn the probe over to the state authorities because he can't do anything about it because he knew so them knowing everybody actually fucked them over because they weren't allowed to represent them because they knew them right they weren't allowed to the lawyers you want because they fucking know you well rather than the guy you know prosecuting you you can't because that prosecutor actually represented you so now he can't if he just knew you would be fine but he doesn't just know you from around town.

He actually repped you. So he knows you. He knows you knows you. This is the lawyer who helped Fred get out of jail in January 85 by arranging for him to sign a judgment note promising to repay $44,000 to the business. to repay $44,000 to the business. So the assistant district attorney said about this whole thing, quote, perhaps never before in the history of Western Pennsylvania have so many people stalked one person for so long. This is like a year they did this for.

She had no clue. People stumbling around her yard. It's crazy, dude. It's fucking crazy. So they arrest Gerald Jerry McCarthy is as well. He's ordered held for court and arrested, charged with offering ten thousand dollars for a contract murder. They got Edward Lau in there. They got all sorts of fucking people are being arrested now. Harden the whole deal. All sorts of fucking people are being arrested now. Harden, the whole deal. So Wayne Shackelford also says that he was was high. He admits that he was hired to kill her and all that sort of thing. So Earl T. Spann, the dead guy in the landfill, where the fuck did he come from? Well, they were contacted by Steve Guevara, owner of the landscaping and excavation business who owned the property adjacent to Mayhew's

residence. So they buried her at the landfill across the street. Also, they couldn't even, you know, not her, him spans across across from the murder. The attempted hits house. This is fucking ridiculous. So Guevara tells them that Harden Harden and Fred drove to the job site where Guevara was working and asked if they could borrow his pickup truck. So they took it. And later that evening, he returned the truck to the property where Guevara was training one of his employees, Hudson Gibson.

That's the Gibson guy who testified about this, to operate a large excavator. Harden asked Guevara if he'd be willing to bury a dog for him and he said he would and told Gibson to begin digging the hole the assistant while he was excavating Harden told Guevara that he wanted to talk to him privately they then went into his trailer where Harden told Guevara that quote the four-legged dog was really a two-legged dog oh boy that's what he said then he explained that he wanted to bury the body of a man who fred hired to kill his wife so this would be earl uh i guess fred had given earl money but earl didn't do the job so harden said that uh said that he fred and quote jerry the hitman which was mcc, had shot the guy in the back of the head with a.25.

They worked it out. They worked it out. So they can kill him. So they said they wanted to bury the body on the property of Howard Stuber, who was a business associate of Fred, but were unable to gain access to his backhoe. They were going to just go plant a body in someone else's backyard. to his backhoe. They were going to just go plant a body in someone else's backyard. So Guevara was assured that if he agreed to bury the body, then Harden and Fred would come back later and move it somewhere else. We'll get rid of it just right now. We got to stash it somewhere. So they didn't identify him, but they found out later. It was Earl Spann.

Harden had brought Spann to Guevara's property on one other occasion when he was alive and introduced him to Guevara. Guevara also overheard Harden arguing with Spann on the telephone on prior occasions. After the argument, Harden told Guevara that Spann had, quote, loose lips. They sink ships, I hear. I've heard that many times. I believe that's true. It might be true. It's just one of those, you know, it's out there a lot.

So following the burial, Harden began to refer to Spann as a, quote, dog anytime his name was mentioned. Oh, because. He's the dog. Yeah. Wow. On a number of occasions after the burial, Harden, in the presence of Guevara, would call up Spann span's telephone number leave a message on the answering machine then laugh because he knew he was dead because he buried him yeah that way that he would go i didn't kill him i've been trying to get a hold of the guy so at least he's smart enough to do that when you're trying to get away with murder so anyway

well yeah buddy we're over here party and miss you come on hey what the fuck you don't fucking call me back i'm getting pissed starting to get mad now the newspaper reported span missing harden told gavara that span had been hired by fred to kill his wife but didn't do the job even though he took the money so one to two months after the incident gavara and harden were at gavara's property and he once again uh said thanks for taking care of that down there and pointed to where the body was buried. And Guevara said at that point, Fred appeared to know where the body was, even though he

had not been present at the time of the burial. And Guevara hadn't told him the location of the grave. So Fred and Harden also informed Guevara that Jerry, the hitman, was a, quote, real professional and a good hitman. And he could do the job. He could do a job for Guevara that Jerry the Hitman was a quote real professional and a good hitman and he could do the job he could do a job for Guevara if he needed it just in case you need anyone killed this guy can take care of it Jerry the Hitman

by the way works as a bartender at Station Square in Pittsburgh and dealt drugs on the side obviously so he's got it all he can make you a Manhattan and fucking kill your wife and then give you some coke to get you jacked up to go out look for more ladies later he's the fucking perfect guy to talk to here so december 15th 1986 gavara said he returned to his house at 11 15

across the street from harleen's house and And he noticed Harden's vehicle parked on his property facing toward Harleen's residence. He pulled up, saw Harden inside the car, Harden at a police scanner and a handheld radio in the car with him as well. Guevara could hear a male voice talking to Harden through the, through the walkie talkie,

but he couldn't identify it because walkie talkies in 85 sound like shit or 86. They change your voice quite a bit. Terribly. through their walkie talkie, but he couldn't identify it because walkie talkies and 85 sound like shit or 86. They change your voice quite a bit. Terribly. Uh, Harden then immediately told Gavar to move his car because he's blocking the view.

He said, Hey, stop, move the car. You're blocking the view, the view. Then Harden pointed over toward Harleen's residence and told him that Fred was down there and quote,

it's going down right now. Right now. He told him he's killing his wife right now over there. I'm trying to watch. Can you get out of my fucking way? So later, Guevara's taking a shower. Harden knocked on the door and asked for some water. Harden explained that Fred had knocked his wife's eyes out and it was a mess.

Jesus. And there was blood everywhere. So when Harden later returned the water container, he told Guevara that it, quote, had been just like Jimmy Hoffa and that Guevara's wife would be next. We'll kill your wife next. We'll take care of that for you.

He doesn't want his wife killed, though. That's the thing. But he's telling, like, I'll do you a favor and kill your wife. Like everyone just wants their wife dead. You want to kill your wife, right? What? He's been married 12, 13 years.

The thrill is gone. We'll kill her. Start over. Let's do it. Don't act like it's the same. You've been so helpful. I'll just kill her. You've been so helpful.

Really? I'll kill her. Don't worry about it. Do me a favor. Oh man. helpful i'll just kill her you've been so helpful really i'll kill her don't worry about it do you favor oh man so the following day um gavara heard that the police had found harleen's body in the trunk of a car he drove to harden's residence in the afternoon to drop off some insurance papers he found uh he that's when he found harden cleaning out the trunk of the car like henry hill and goodfellas i hit a skunk karenunk, Karen. All right. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

Harden asked Guevara if he could help him gather up ammunition, which was lying loose in his trunk, and to try to help find a glove that he had lost. Terrible murderers. Just terrible. Why is he so clumsy? Spilled all the bullets. Can't find my gloves. Who are you, OJ?

That's what I mean. Plus, I'd like, can you see all aspects of our evidence just so you can link it all together if you have to for the police? Thank you. He looked in the trunk, saw some loose.25 caliber ammunition as well as camouflaged clothing. He said he refused to help Harden, saying he didn't want to put his

fingerprints on anything. I don't want to touch any of this. Touching a goddamn thing. Guevara then brought up the subject of Harleen's death and Harden got excited at that point and said, quote, I told those guys how to do it and they didn't listen to me. And that is when

Chief Zarrillo, remember in the beginning when Zarrillo, the cop, went to talk to him because he heard his friend died? That's when he pulled up in the middle of this argument. Tell him they didn't listen to me. They could have killed him right. Chief, how you doing, buddy? Long time no see.

How you been? How's tricks? Yeah, it's great. So later that day, Guevara then tells Howard Stuber that Harden had been in his driveway the previous evening. Howard Stuber advised him to go to the police or get an attorney, one of the two. But you probably shouldn't just sit on this. He's a good friend. Guevara then went to an attorney and told him about the incident.

When Guevara came to pay his respects at the funeral, he was confronted by Fred, who told him that the attorney told him what the fuck he said. And I'll talk to you later. And that's when he started calling him and saying, come me somewhere and that's when guevara went to the police see how this all works out the onion we're getting to the fucking heart right here so heavy so uh fred warned guevara not quote not to fucking say anything about harden being in his driveway that night so uh after that conversation they kept kept calling him and all this type of shit. Harden began calling Guevara, asking him to tell the police the only reason that he was there that night was to bring him a bottle of scotch. Just say I was in the driveway bringing you some shit.

You've already told them I was there. Shit. Harden also asked Guevara not to take police to where they buried Earl Spann, rather take them to a spot where they actually buried a dead dog. Cause they had a buried a dead dog to actually show him the dog. Um, Guevara told Harden to leave him alone and told him that he was going to go to the police and he knew about what happened and he was tired of this shit. And then Harden got arrested cause he followed through and did all that shit.

Uh, February 12th is when Guevara showed them where the body of Earl Spann was back to the beginning. So Wilbert Alexander in September of that year, investigators learned from an inmate at the Allegheny County jail that Wilbert Alexander, uh, from him that Fred's arrest, uh, had not ended his efforts to fucking to screw things up. Right. his efforts to fucking to screw things up. Right. This guy testifies that during June of 87, while he's incarcerated,

following his arrest, they, uh, um, uh, the attorney general's office brought drug charged against him. During that time, Alexander agreed to aid the attorney general's office into ongoing drug

investigations. September 10th, 87, this Alexander guy related to an agent that fred had repeatedly approached him about killing certain witnesses against him so they just went to everybody man um this guy uh it's fucking crazy this guy also uh um the agent then relayed the information to investigators who arranged for this Alexander to wear a body wire, a fucking wire. So it was agreed that Alexander would talk to Fred, tell him that he was getting out of prison, but otherwise let Fred do the talking.

So Alexander was specifically instructed to avoid any conversation relating to the murder case pending. So Alexander meets with fred and tells him that he's going to be released from prison fred then gave him certain information about the witnesses he wants killed of course i'm getting out of prison soon he's like can you kill a few people for me here's a list welcome back no entrapment so unbelievable so the harden trial here harden is going to be charged with uh um all sorts of shit here a conspiracy and murder uh frederick mayhew was charged with first degree murder as well frederick mayhew is up for the death penalty yeah because he's the one that wanted this whole thing and he did it physically did it oh he did he beat her he choked

her yeah he was across the street doing it fred i mean he did everything by hand he did it physically did it oh he did he beat her he choked her yeah he was across the street doing it fred i mean he did everything by hand he did not hire anybody he didn't want something done right do it yourself and have your friend watch from across the street what a creepy scenario stroking it right get out of the way i'm almost there i can't see move. Oh, gross. So during Harden's trial, because his trial comes up first, he is charged with criminal with conspiracy and criminal homicide. That's a lot. They he tries to say that detectives violated his Miranda rights by making small talk with him when he burst out saying they can only get me for conspiracy in the hallway of a judge's office so i'm sorry listen if you're standing next to two cops in a fucking judge's hallway and you're not some dumb person who you're a fucking guy who is the goddamn you were a cop and you're the

an elected commissioner in charge of police and safety matters. You know not to say that shit at any point. I'm sorry. You're aware of what can be held against you. You know the consequences and you know your rights. It's fucking, but I get it. So the judge ruled that they didn't violate the Miranda rights because they weren't questioning him. They didn't mention the murder. He they weren't questioning him. They didn't mention the murder.

He blurted it out without being questioned. That's a voluntary utterance, and that's tough shit on you. He had been Mirandized before that, and that's good enough. So the judge said he's going to admit several statements Harden made to other detectives and Beaver County police officers. And most of those Harden admitted he was with fred mayhew the night of the slaying because he was going around were each other's alibis and what he did was tie them together so they're both in the same thing that's all he did idiots this is fucking the dumbest people ever now um witnesses testified that he was sitting in a parked car outside the

house with a walkie-talkie they had gavara they had the women who saw him sitting out there it wasn't very good he's acting as a lookout uh gavara testifies uh that's that's the crucial testimony here's gavara's saying that he arrived home he you know the guy said it's going down over there right all that shit here uh gavara said the reason he the reason he didn't come forward immediately was because he feared harden's political connections in the whole matter but then he said okay they might kill me here so i better do this yeah save my own skin no shit so enter a man named ron baza b-o-z-z-a get in here, Ronnie. He says he received a letter from Harden on February 10th. He was arrested on the 6th, so he's immediately writing letters while he was at the Allegheny County Jail, expressing concern about the safety of Beaver County Common Pleas Judge Robert Reed. possible danger from re to read from someone in jail reed was the one who ordered mayhew to serve 254 days in the county jail during the divorce proceedings so he's basically saying i heard

someone wants to kill that judge right so baza said harden asked him to tell rochester attorney eugene martucci who's the guy that they all talked to not to talk about the divorce case if detectives questioned him baza said he became scared that he could be implicated in the mayu death and went immediately to police so they placed a tap on his phone and uh in transcripts of conversations between baza and harden february 16th and 17th harden talked more about the danger to read in one of the conversations harden expressed concern that police would question five large deposits he made in his bank account. He said the deposits totaled $7,000 were lent to him by Aliquippa District Judge Peter Lova Shio to help Hardin buy his house. Hardin tells Baza on the phone conversation that he would have a hard time explaining these deposits to the state attorney general.

And, you know, let's just not let's not make it too complicated for me. Verdict comes in and not shockingly, because he's told everyone on Earth and a million people saw him. He's found guilty. Harden is of all of that shit. And he's sentenced to you, sir. May fuck off life in prison for Mr. Harden is of all of that shit. And he's sentenced to you, sir, may fuck off life in prison for Mr. Harden. Okay.

During this time, Fred's businesses are in turmoil because he's in jail. Yeah. They've got to be just tanking. One of his partners, Stuber, the guy who lives over there, too, there they wanted to bury the body in his yard. He sues to keep his company intact here. He's got to sue. He filed suit to stop the IRS from seizing the assets of his company

to pay Mayhew's back taxes because he's like, I own fucking part of this company. Stuber filed suit here and the IRS placed a lien on the company, which is Amico Environmental Services, when it was discovered that he owed back taxes of $545,532.76. Good lord. It was found that's during the divorce and all that shit.

According to the suit, Frederick Mayhew's interest in Am co is substantially less than the taxes owed. So Stuber is asking that his interest in the company be increased from the 40 percent he received when the company was formed. So he can have control over day to day operations and be able to do this. The IRS, I believe, agrees to it because then they end up auctioning off all of Fred's shit. Oh, no. Yes. They a a bunch of shit here uh they're trying to get back they say he has a collection of kentucky rifles that could help pay the debts off the irs is auctioning off an assortment of antique rifles handgun swords and decoy ducks that belong to Mayu. All sorts of shit. They hope to recover the $317,793 in federal taxes that he owes off of this,

with interest as the rest of it. So his collection was seized here. One of his buddies was holding it. 24 rifles, 18 handguns, including a luger pistol and six swords will go to the highest bidder also a collection of a set of 19 wooden decoy ducks i guess good ones could probably be expensive i bet really they're just foam right i don't know what the fuck they are i guess i don't know i've never ducked. I guess, I don't know. I've never duck hunted. Today's money, that's like $100,000 worth of shit, probably. Yeah, probably.

Maybe $60,000 or $80,000. I don't know. It's certainly not $300,000. It says being auctioned are the Colt.45 automatics of their period, an 1816 U.S. military flintlock pistol. Oh, those. Yeah, he's got like old black powder rifles and shit. Other guns on the auction block, such as the Pepperbox, 31 caliber Pepperbox gun. I don't know what that is.

And a European Flobert, which were popular pieces in the mid-19th century. Oh, the Flobert. Mid-1800s, we're talking here. Mid-1800s haircut machine. Yeah, the Flobert. They gave everybody that bewigged look. They said, quote, the Pepperbox was very popular in the 1840s among those who took part in the gold rush. Okay, that's interesting.

Although the condition of the gun and its finish can lower its price, he said that because such guns as the Flaubert and the Pepperbox were made in great numbers, they're unlikely to fetch high prices. He says the Pepper Box was made by the tens of thousands and won't go too far in paying that debt. The guns such as the Kentucky rifles will get high prices. If he has a good collection of Kentuckys, Uncle Sam is going to collect that money, a gun dealer said. He's in an area where they get good money. They said that the original finish aren't worm-eaten and they could be worth at least $2,000 each.

That's pretty cool. They said the guns are somewhat of a novelty. They're interesting to look at being that they date back to the 1850s. If I were a gun collector, I would sure be interested in buying them. That's a quote from one of the IRS agents in charge charge of the auction anybody want to raise the price on these to try to cover this shit that's fucking amazing only registered gun dealers with a current license

will be allowed to bid on the world war ii luger because i guess that's still operational as opposed to the other ones which are just kind of whatever for show. So they have that auction here. His property is sold. They sell his truck, his motor home, his car, all sorts of shit here to pay back his debts. They just strip him of everything, which now he's up for trial. Now, the prosecutor, because he doesn't want the blame spread too far around. You want to concentrate it on Fred.

He said, because they talked about all of these people that could have turned him in, that didn't turn it in, all of these other people. And we're going to blame Fred for all this. That was his defense, pretty much. That's all I got, Your Honor. How many people could have stopped him from trying to kill his wife, and they didn't? Now it's whose fault is that? So he said that, quote, even if those people had acted responsibly, Fred Mayhew probably would have eventually killed her anyway. This is what the prosecutor says.

So, yeah. His two sisters testify for him. Joan and Sandra Mayhew testify on his behalf. They say that, you know, he's there. There is alibi. All of that. The assistant district attorney here, he says in his closing that in the neatly folded dollar bill that they found on top of her, that epitomized the venom that Mayhew admitted existed. Quote, it was Fred's final send off to Harleen.

It was like he said, here's your money. Yeah, it really was. I knew it right when you said it. Yeah, it's he was like, I want them to know it's me. Well, let's see. I can ask a million people to be on the murder plot. I can make sure there's witnesses to the actual murder. I could then pass the body off to somebody else who has nothing to do with this shit.

And on top of that, why don't we fucking add this into it as well? This is pretty ridiculous. Let's throw the dollar bill in case there's any ideas. So he says that there's some hearsay he doesn't want admitted because James Harden said some shit and, you know, it doesn't really go to him. But he says they don't fall within the co-conspirators exception or exception of the whole thing. He argues that Harden's statements regarding the death of Earl Spann were not made in furtherance of the conspiracy to kill Harleen and cannot therefore be admitted under the exception. But the court says, yeah, but Earl Spann only died because of the plot to Harleen. So it's all part of one crime, you fucking idiot.

Earl would be fine if he didn't want to murder his own wife. That's the thing. So, yeah, they said that the conversation with Steve Guevara allowed Harden and Fred to obtain a burial site for him, thus enabling them to avoid prosecution for the murder, remain free and at large to continue their ongoing plot against Harleen. Exactly. All true. They also say that they shouldn't have admitted statements of Jerry McCarthy, the good hit man, quote unquote, as statements made by a co-conspirator because they challenge his statements. Fred says that the statements were inadmissible due to the failure to present sufficient evidence that he was even involved in the conspiracy. How do you have even evidence that he was in there? Meanwhile, he gave Lau the gun that the gun that Lau got busted with was sold by a man who they got a statement from saying, I sold that gun to Jerry McCarthy.

So that's how you that's how you're connected physically. Never mind through witnesses, you dumb fuck. So, yeah, he also there's a final one here saying you can't have the statements that Harden made to Steve Guevara following the arrest here. Harden asked Guevara to misdirect the police, you know, to the dog thing. And he's like, you can't let that in there. And they're like. The part where they were like trying to keep people away, authorities away from the body. You can't talk about that.

And they said, yeah, it's erroneously admitted under co-conspirator exception since they weren't made during the conspiracy, which had terminated upon his arrest. So they said, no, it's all fulfillment of one thing. Anything you did in furtherance of trying to kill Harleen, anything, all counts. It's a big tent and it's all inside. It's like a county fair in here, babe. It's like a big circus. The 4-H show is right fucking here it's a big cows you're all clowns no shit man so um finally um there's a lot going on here

jesus christ so the trial is happening and they're they really got him kind of fucked here and uh they also they he claims that they should have suppressed evidence on the death of Earl Spann and all that kind of shit under the grounds that it constituted inadmissible evidence of prior criminal activity. He tried that one, too. Well, you're trying to get in past crimes like it's a past crime that has something to do with the current crime we're talking about. You killed a guy to cover up your current crime. That's not a past crime, you fucking moron. That is really frustrating. So they said evidence of other crimes can be admitted

where there's legitimate evidentiary purpose. Some of the exceptions recognized are, they said that legitimate basis for admitting evidence of a defendant's distinct crimes include motive, intent, absence of mistake or accident, common scheme, plan or design, embracing two or more crimes so related to each other that the proof of one tends to prove the others. I think that falls hard fucking core under that deal here. So anyway, there's six hours of deliberation on this verdict six hours of deliberation on this whole thing stressful that's a lot that's too much time fred comes back guilty

of all charged here everything you can imagine all the murder all the conspiracy all the all the hits of the 80s 90s end today he's found guilty of fucking all of it so during sentencing he's got to get up there and now admit to what he did or else he's getting the death penalty so he's got to try to go i'm i don't know what i was thinking so he gets up there on the stand and tells the jury that he quote must have must have had a breakdown. Because I must have had a breakdown. He said, after I got put in jail for six months, he said I had a breakdown when I got out, and all I wanted to do was kill my wife.

I had to kill her. Is that what Tom Petty was singing about? Yeah, he won't back down. Breakdown! Oh, you're on breakdown. We can do that, too. That could do that too yes and she was an american girl in the trunk of your car it's all it all fits together and now you're free falling sir so let's have a chat about how you're free falling and oh my god good say goodbye to

mary jane because you're going to be in prison motherfucker run down this dream yes god bet your fucking ass boy do i love tom petty but i will tell you what sir nobody knows how it feels to be you that is true i love it so must have had a breakdown um you know whole deal here and he said uh you know don't do me like that. And he was like, listen. Sorry. Because you don't have to live like a refugee. You don't.

You don't. That's the thing. You can tell the truth here. So he does. And he says, quote, when I got out of jail, it was probably one of the top things on my mind. Killing his wife. I was angry. Well, no shit.

He said at that time I was not in my right mind i think i went through a complete mental breakdown and he begins to sob uncontrollably on the stand he said it's horrible everything's horrible and then he said in his sobs after all that quote heaven forbid that anyone anybody should ever have to go to jail if you've never been there it will blow your mind will it like you put me in jail and that's plenty of punishment for me man because it's beyond the pale in there buddy i think i'll tell you what i think i've paid my penance i'd like to go home now i think i'm telling you no just don't kill me you just put me in jail i'll be good um so they deliberate for five hours on the penalty here and uh give it to the judge judge gets up there you sir may fuck off death in the electric chair oh boy yeah they

said dude anybody in their right mind never mind you tried to do it you actually killed her all that anyone in their right mind after the first 10 failed fucking attempts to do this would have went oh my god i've come to my right mind i'm not i'm not in the middle of my breakdown anymore this is a year-long plot with everyone he ever knew yeah he'd just meet people and be like hey you're looking for 10 grand pound of high-grade coke because i got a fucking ex-wife that is just, oh, man, you have no idea. She's too much. Wow.

Convicted of first degree murder and all that shit. Also, Jerry McCarthy's found guilty of criminal solicitation to commit homicide as well here. Lau got like some probation or some shit because he's a moron and he came forward and just kind of did some probation for the gun charge now um may you hear a harden says that he's going to get a new trial hardens like listen i'm going to get a new trial he says i i what i said at the time it's only because i didn't understand my rights that's why i don't understand rights, even though I work for the police and all that. Didn't understand that. He said my intention was to testify, but I was told I wasn't allowed to testify unless I could produce evidence, you know, and that incriminated me. Next thing you know, I'm fucking in jail. This is crazy, right?

You didn't have immunity and you told them shit. That's called you're an idiot and you're in jail. You fucking dummy. Keep having trials until he's not guilty is that what he wants yeah it's unreal um so yeah the judge said quote i've never heard anything so silly in all my life is what he said it's ridiculous but he says i'm gonna get a new trial everything's gonna be great i'm getting out of this you guys can fuck off hard and says then in 1989 they go well you're gonna have to get out of this you guys can fuck off hard and says then

in 1989 they go well you're gonna have to get out of two because we're charging you with spans murder oh suck it because you did that you did that yeah he's charged with homicide from that uh he's already serving a life prison sentence but they said let's throw earl spans murder in there as well get his family a little bit of justice and uh they do that uh affidavit testimony from steve gavara is on there saying he bar gavara said harden borrowed his pickup truck drove there drove to the landfill said what he was doing asked him to backfill the fucking thing um they tests indicate the bullets used in the slaying of Harleen Mayhew were, quote, in all probability fired from the same.24 caliber handgun as the one that killed Spann. .25.

Unbelievable. They used the same gun. This is the same gun. And they got another one because Lau got busted with a.25, too. Was it the.22 or was that a.25? No, he got busted with the.25 that he got from McCarthy. And then this is the murder weapons like McCarthy'sarthy's like personal gun he's had since 81 stupid oh my god span had been shot in the head and obviously here now march of 1994 okay this is fred's appeal so uh there's a

bunch of different things we're going to focus on one or two of them here. The jury imposes the death sentence, and the jury found the aggravating circumstance of contract to kill for pay. Okay? You need an aggravating circumstance, and they said that outweighed any mitigating circumstances. Quickly, we will go over the possible aggravators, because people have actually asked us about this a lot. I've had a lot of tweets of like, what are the aggravators? What are they? And people in other countries, too, especially, are wondering.

I know a couple. There's a commission of a robbery and then a sexual assault, right, and a kidnapping. There's 16 of them. We'll go over them very, very quickly. Brief, obviously. One victim was a fireman, peace officer, public servant of his official position. Defendant paid or was paid by another person who had contracted to pay to pay or to be paid by another person who had conspired to pay or be paid by another person for the killing of the victim. Anybody paying anybody is what that says. Three victim was held by the defendant for ransom or reward or as a shield or hostage. OK.

Four victim. The death of the victim occurred while defendant was engaged in the hijacking of an aircraft. That's very specific. Five, the victim was a prosecution witness to a murder or other felony committed by the defendant and was killed for the purpose of preventing his testimony against the defendant. Number six, defendant committed a killing while in perpetration of a felony. So that's just if you're robbing someone.

Commission of the offense seven, commission of the offense, the defendant knowingly created a grave risk to death to another person in addition to the victim of the offense. So that's a collateral damage, dead people. Number eight, the offense was committed by means of torture. Number nine, defendant has a significant history of felony convictions involving the use or threat of violence. Number 10, defendant had been convicted in another federal or state offense committed either before or at the time of the offense at issue for which a life sentence or death sentence was impossible or the defendant was undergoing a sentence of life imprisonment for any reason at the time of this offense. Defendant had been convicted of another murder committed either before or at the time of the

offense issued, because that's multiple people. If they'd been convicted of volunteer, blah, blah, blah, convicted or was an accomplice in the killing. So at the time of the killing, the victim was or had been a non-governmental informant. So not even an official informant to someone who was giving information. And then finally, 16, the victim was a child under 12 years of age. Wow. Which is good, too. I'm impressed with the one that they got in that is a history of doing reckless things, like dangerous things. Because that could be anything right

well it's i think it's specific actually uh the where is it the uh let's see 10 i think or nine number eight number nine uh felony is committed while perpetrator blah blah has been convicted of another federal or state offense committed either before or at the time of the offense is that what you're saying maybe yeah or there's also significant history of felony convictions and use involving the use or threat of violence that one yeah so you've that's like you've you've grown into murder now yeah you yeah you know that's like evolved escalation there it escalated you've escalated and evolving words it's evolving too It's either one. They're both good.

It's better than fucking, what did I say earlier? Isn't a word? Mistooking. Oh, James, that's mistake. Mistaked. Mistaked. Jesus Christ. You can mistaking.

Something could be, you know, there's mistaking. I was mistaking. It's not a big deal. I mistaked evolution for escalate. Either way, they're both good. I was mistaking. It's not a big deal. I was mistaken. I was mistaken. I was mistaken for Escalade. Either way, they're both good. I just said mistaken. They said the Supreme, this is the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, on the absence of aggravating factors warranting a death sentence, the court ruled that because the contract to kill Mrs.

Mayhew was never carried out, the contract could not be used as an aggravator because that didn't actually work. He did it himself, leaving the case without the circumstances to justify a death sentence under Pennsylvania law. Sentence vacated, commuted to life in prison. Fascinating. Commuted to fucking life in prison um which is wild because if he tried though and then he did it himself which to me is way worse right like the person who passed off whatever and paid somebody to kill him like that person is it's a terrible person i get

that but someone who could do all those things to someone they were once married to and has children with is the mother of your children. If you could take her, beat her skull in with a bat and be like, fucking not dead yet, this bitch, and then put her over a window and try to fucking strangle her with a metal window frame till it breaks. And then says, fucking throw her in the trunk i'm gonna shoot her how's that not torture too right yeah he had the gun he could have put her out of her misery immediately but instead he chose to prolong her fucking pain yeah if they convict him of the other one of the span murder isn't that in furtherance of like evolving by like paying to have that done but then going and doing this himself. That's kind of escalating.

Right. Well, but Harden is an accessory. I'm sorry. Fred's only an accessory after the fact to the span murder. Harden did the murder, then drove the body there, dumped it, did all that. Fred came later on and Guevara was surprised that Fred knew where the body was because he was like, thanks for that over there. So he was in on it, but he wasn't. He's just part of the conspiracy rather than an actual active participant in it.

He's like accessory after the fact. So it all gets very complicated. And when you're talking about the death penalty, those little weird, complicated, all that shit, it's not it's kind of pointless. So, you know, they're going to fight about that in court and all that. Life in prison is fine. Let him fucking sit there. Who cares? He's like 75 years old at this point, too.

I think he's 35. He's probably 85 if he's alive. I couldn't find a record of his death, and I couldn't find him in jail. So I don't know. He's in his 80s, though. He could have been moved anywhere, too. I think he was like 53 at the time of the murder, and that was in 86. So, I mean, we're talking 30 fucking, 35 years ago.

So he's almost 90 if he's alive. There's no way he's alive. In prison, that's a tough life, man. So I'm not sure he'd still be alive. But either way, he is pretty fucked there. I would say so. And he deserves it. And that, honestly, that is one of the most bat shit

insane stories yeah we've ever fucking told it really is because i like what that's like loopier than the guy uh than the wife leaving and going to the trailer across the street like this is you can at least explain that that guy got super pissed because he can see her banging you can at least explain that that guy got super pissed because he can see her banging yeah the only weirder backstory to me is the one with the guy who had 107 dildos yeah we had like the lady who molested his kid and a convicted rapist who just got out of jail two separate people both living in his house with his kids and he was banging the guy lady who molested his kid and he was like riding around on dirt bikes and weird shit like that it's one of the very strange but this one i mean how small town is it when you have just don't worry about we know judges and stuff you can tell

we have no fear of telling everyone we know of this murder conspiracy we're working on like that's nuts that's fucking crazy that that's goes that's why we do small town murder because shit like that happens like ah we got it covered don't sweat it i know the county judge it's okay they go so far wow that is fucking crazy but uh that is a crazy story and if you enjoyed that story you can tell us all about it very easily by going get on whatever app you're listening on i don't care what the fuck you listen on that's up to you that's a personal choice what app you want you like better how things are arranged everybody likes it i don't like that one because it updates like this and i

don't like how they arrange it yeah it's great wherever you're listening to comfortable with find where it says review and give us five goddamn stars because it helps to show a lot helps drive us up the charts and it's just helpful i don't know why tell your friends about it too that's the other thing tell your friends try to spread the show we really appreciate we love when people tell us that like oh i got everybody at work listening i got all my friends listening i got everybody at school listening that's fucking awesome thank you honestly, no, go ahead. Sorry. We're too polite. And the show is still growing.

And that's something that I can't, for the life of me, understand. It's unbelievable and it's beautiful. And it's because of you guys. Telling your friends. Telling your family. I don't know, the family that you give a fuck about. Whoever you like. Whether or not they enjoy their day.

We're not part of some giant conglomerate we don't have like a bunch of other like if you notice you don't see promos for us anyway you don't hear promos for us we don't have we're not we don't pay for a lot of podcasts and this is true they pay for ads on a bunch of people's shows we don't do that we don't we we go by word of mouth that's how we grow our show we want it this way because it's worked the best way and yes it has gotten people that like this together rather than just blasting it out to people that may or may not give a fuck about this and when they don't those people are so loud and annoying yeah we would rather grow slower but grow with people that we want that's worked for us to this

point we've gotten a great audience of everybody's awesome because it's people telling people that they think are like minded of, you know, you like a funny shit and you like you have a dark sense of humor. You don't mind a little murder in your in your oatmeal. Things like that, you know, like that. That's what builds the show. So thank you. We're not part of a huge conglomerate. We're not part of some giant media thing that's going to help us out. We're just us. We're just two dudes dudes we're two comedians doing a show and thank you for getting us to this

point and uh please keep pushing keep pushing because the show can never stop growing because then it'll die so we don't want to kill it yeah it's we're like a shark we have to keep moving so keep telling your friends keep doing all that we got to eat our body weight every day absolutely uh part of doing that you can follow us on social media share some shit you can follow us we are at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram we put up all sorts of cool shit there you can find out anything information shows when they're posted and of course live stuff. You're going to hear plenty of. Oh, boy. You can get that live show stuff over it.

Shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Like Seattle is the next city. We are. We're there on a Thursday and a Friday. And then we're on. We're in Portland Saturday and Sunday. Still a few tickets left for those Seattle shows. So get those quickly before they're gone.

Portland's been sold out for two years, both those shows. And these are in theaters, too. You guys are awesome in the Pacific Northwest. So check on those in case anybody returns any. One or two might pop up. But Seattle, don't let Portland punk you. Don't let your neighbors from the

South show that they're the better small-town murder fans. You don't want to do that. Compete, goddammit. Be like, like no the 90s is alive in portland james we will do this put your goddamn flannel on and get the fuck outside and go to the goddamn show will you so thank you for everyone flannel flannel also quickly quickly i do want to say thank you so much to everyone that came out to the wilbur and in Brooklyn to see us as well. You guys were amazing. The people in Brooklyn, we had to switch venues because the other venue had structural damage and had to close down.

So these people found after two years, they held on to tickets, found the new venue and came and were an awesome audience and then the wilbur i mean that place is magic and uh every time three tiers of balcony and uh you know main floor and two tiers of balcony and fucking 1100 people shouting shut up and give me murder and just being the best fucking audience in the country so thank you for that you guys really are great boston's always been amazing to us so thank you for being so great to us always boston and everywhere else too i mean from the start first live shows of yeah we did chicago and boston were our first life and those are always two of our shows unbelievable and they're always great we love chicago too we love everywhere we're coming so we're very excited get your tickets now

patreon quickly patreon.com slash crime and sports my god do you need to go to patreon and check it out this week holy shit it's so good anybody five dollars and above gets access to all the episodes the whole back catalog there's so much good stuff on there you get access also to both shows patreon episodes crime and sports and small town murder this week for crime and sports very interesting one it's about counterfeiters of memorabilia yeah autographs and you know official balls from this and the all this type of shit you know the home run balls of that all these different forms of memorabilia and everybody knows somebody who's got like sign balls up and everyone's got those people. So find out if what they have is really true or if it's full of shit, because you're going to find out very easily through this little documentary that we'll talk about and shit that we'll do here and discuss.

And then for small town murders episode, we have something very fun, kind of similar to the small town festivals one we did last year but even crazier because it's weird shit that goes on in small town uh and county fairs throughout the land so strange and so much fun lots of weird shit bands and food and things deep deep fried and dipped in sugar. It's going to be crazy. Check it out. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you also are going to get a shout out. Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show while doing his best to pronounce it properly. He really will.

Or you can just go to PayPal and have great karma and get your shout out. Just use our email address. Crimeandsports at gmail.com. That's also a good way to get a hold of the show if you want to. That said, Jimmy, hit me with the list of the people who would never hire everybody in two whole counties to try to kill us and fail and fail and fail before

doing it in the most painful way possible. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Melissa Turner, Soylent Green is people, James. I don't know if you know that. I am aware of that. Charlton Heston said that. Amy Spicer and her husband Doug came to Tempe. They were also in San Diego

and Brea. It was terrific. Amazing seeing them. Thanks, Sam. Nice to see you. Jordan Bennett, she also came to San Diego, obviously. Donna Perry is in Texas. Nick Mendoza working on his Hondas in his garage. Clay Thorson sent Stan's refund from the wig shop. I don't know if you saw that.

Happy birthday, Michael Keating. Keating? Keating, I think. He takes care of his wife, Anne. She has a debilitating problem. I don't know. Michael's done an amazing job taking care of her. Thank you so much, Michael. That's great.

Keep it up. Yeah, no shit. Sorry. I hope she feels better. I hope so also. Thomas Asbeek. i don't know uh tia bowen good try ashton pruitt terry stanley and uh truly you guys uh the the bar that you guys set is super high and i hope that we clear it thank you really honestly thank you you amazing. Other producers this week are Mitch Comstain, I think, Peyton Meadows. There we go.

Liz Vasquez, Jen Visconti, Megan Jonos, Jeff Shrewsbury, James Marder, Linda Stittler, Sitler, Sitler, Frank the South African Birdwasher, Iron Tree Craftworks on Etsy has a discount for small-town murder listeners. That's TL15. Do it. Happy Hour checking in from san diego mark hummel jennifer mosher tofer dissel on discord rabbi shmulalovich hyman roth uh swamp queen creations on etsy timothy no tiffany not timothy tiffany gonzalez sold her mom's wheelchair

to donate here oh that's so nice thank you she's comfy on the couch don't worry about it uh peter and alicia stone got more t-bowls than b-holes and we're going to stay with them tim tim tasler in berlin michael carboni in colorado ashley taylor jeremy bethune uh samantha quigley janice hill destiny mcmahon mike paglute paglia pagliuca pagluka right i don't know what it looks like. It's in front of you. Store manager Rachel Walters. Your laptop's facing me. Farrah Designs. They are the manufacturer of the Dextard CIS Studio Football.

Oh, beautiful. That was great. That's a nice one. Bryce Law. Happy birthday, Vanessa Hancock. Jill in Delco, Pennsylvania, Christy McCurry, thank you.

Mary Zakaruski, Peyton Meadows, I said that, Carl Kirshner, St. Hugo the Strange, Ben Theiser, I don't know, Damian Garrison, Joshua Guidry, Madison Hamilton, Brent Jensen, or Eric Ortiz.

Will Judkins. Lori Shockley. Michelle Petri. Sean Minogue. I think that's Kylie's brother. Obviously. Lisa Dangler. Stabby McGee.

Johnny Cole. Ty with no last name. Abel with no last name. Steve Cooey. Eldon Villa. Friar Raja. Danny Crawford. Merry Christmas, you filthy animal.

Ben Levinsky. Taylor Venica. Venice. Venice. Venice. Venice. The Bishop. Cashmore with no last name.

Josh Rezateritz. Damian Tornat. Michael Geedy. Ryan Cook. Maisie Brendan. Catherine Robinson. Jacob Waters. Joe Bosley.

Blossett. No last name. Allison. No last name. Ryan. No last name. The Pollinator. Heather, Blossett, no last name. Allison, no last name. Ryan, no last name. The Pollinator, Heather Long, Sadie with no last name. Brittany Brucker, Drowsy with no last name. Claudia Racy, Willamine Linden, I think.

Willamon? Willamagen? Willamagen. Tammy Coxling? Alice Daly, Brent Trotter, Reece Calvert, Alan Tasker, Sage Pearsall, Red Annie 53, Kaylee with no last name, Candy Pledger, Max Amphibious Lack, Caitlin Bacon, Michael Vargo, Melissa Reese, Alia, what the fuck? Kassem, Caitlin Graney, Ariel Lobel, Anthony Hommis, Jeremy Blackburn, Ben and Melissa McRae, Steve Skates, Amanda Tesla, Ben Gretten, Jesus, Nick Peterson, Anthony Simmons. Try it hard there. I'm doing my very, very best. You're working, Jimmy.

You are. Beeson, Brandon Dismukes, Amber Jones, Becky Ann, Nora Moncato, Lindsay Backus, Annette Kemp, Amanda Smith, Savannah Davenport, Nick Strasberg, Patio Furniture, Misty O'Loughlin, Lauren Garcia, Thomas Childress, PDX Me, Jenny with no last name, Melissa Graham, Julie H., Jay Pughin, Pughinovkit, what? I don't know what you're trying to say there uh something terry thank you terry douglas michael harrison cuz yum custom cakes in jackson jacksonville florida austin gale uh shanna savage martin morgan ashley color columbia columbia uh gillian gillian welcher zed 315 oh boy kad boy, Khadija Hawkins, Austin with no last name, Phil White, Rachel Diaz, Tara with no last name, Alex Sheerback, Jason Middlebrook, Sue Heischel, Owen Van Der Werf. It's three words. So it didn't work. April Braun, Cynthia Bruder, A. Dixon, Tina McCown, Casey the Mix, Steve with no last name, Samantha Bollard, Laurie Bade, Hunter Chappell, Taylor Asumane,

Asumane, Newermeyer, nope, Caitlin Smiley, Josephine with no last name, Tay with no last name, Kathy Rowland, Sarah Estrella, Aaron Andrew, Andrew Dubin, Alex LeBlanc, Paul Felix, Abby Menke, Amy Tedder-Bennett, Rebecca Gagnon, Gagnon, Gagnon? Gannon. Gannon.

Vance Kessler, Jared Brum, Cassandra Jackson, Sam Sanchez, Brianna Brenna, Donna Hugh Carson-Bennett, Isaiah Buck Isaiah Buckley Josie, nope that's Jesse, Romero Jerry I. Diggles I don't know what you're going to say I don't know what that is I like that, it's got to mean something

Rochelle Nibb, Elizabeth Washington Sherry with no last name Kelder Bradford, Luis Landoverde Laura Deforge Lauren Minor Damian Ormond, Claire Holland, Dominic with no last name, Therese Hagman, Eric Q, Eric I, Steve Guerrero, Latasha Lawson, Sarah with no last name, Andrea Seigel, Rowan Dunphy, Brittany Payaitow, Caitlin with no last name, Roger Thorne, Asher Griffith, Liz Connect, Tim Lovett, Gisela Fuentes, Matt Waddle, Heather Chacon, Dizzy O'Rourke, Stacy Mills, Richard Brown, Sherry Benchwick, Brandon Rupert, Keegan Schlitter, Paige with no last name, Pete Garity, Patrick Bouchain, Carrie Ann O'Connor, Sky Webster, Leah King, Kara Outs, Joseph Klobukowski, Gracie Mills, Gabe Viek, Phil Schwartz, Ben Robinson, Dylan Kinski, Rusty Hurd, Sarah Hamada, Kelsey B., Mason with no last name, Erica Dabowski, John ah fuck it rusty heart rusty heart hard there jimmy sarah hamada wanted it kelsey b mason with no last name erica dabowski john hobbs jay merriman and all of our patrons thank you guys so much for

everything you do thank you everybody thank you thank you thank you for always coming through for us and always being amazing for us every fucking dime is so appreciated and just the fact that you would give a shit about us enough to actually go to a website and put something in and care enough to give us money never mind actually giving us the money but just the gesture of we're lazy so way to go out of your way to not just be like i'm sure other people are doing it you know like you're actually do it so thank you you're the doers you're the real people you're what this whole world runs on we can't thank you enough for that what if someone wanted to say something nice to you how could they do it jimmy i'm on the internet look it up this goddamn show and find both of us right do that google that google small town murder and

we're there go to shut up and give me murder.com you can even see pictures of us and follow us and all that shit's on social media oh boy we can't wait for all this can't wait for live shows upcoming what i'm very excited what else i can't wait for is to come back next week you know what i mean and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.