Small Town Murder - #256 - The Sickest Desire - Cedar City, Utah

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

This week, in Cedar City, Utah, a neighbor's call to the police for a simple noise disturbance turns into something much scarier, when a mutilated, ravaged body is found, face down, in the living room. The scene is a bloody mess, and the carnage is like none there have ever seen. Just when you think it can't get any weirder, out of the house, comes a shirtless man, covered in blood, and screaming about Satan, and screaming towards the heavens that he wants to kill again! The whole thing somehow gets even wilder, when the case goes to court, and the possibility of death by firing squad is introduced!! Along the way, we find out that some history is best left in the past, that whether the person is alive, or dead, it's still sexual assault, and that it takes a lot to cut a head off!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Cedar City, Utah, after the discovery of a horribly mutilated person and a killer covered in blood, yelling about Satan and begging for death, the whole thing somehow gets even more strange.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week. Again, we are excited. Our kind of post-holidays, well, pre-New

Years, but still. We're still in it, James. We're still in it. We're still in the thick of things. You still have lights on your truck, so that's good. I do. Still have Christmas lights dangling. That's good. So we're all, we're very excited to get into this. Thank you for everything this week. Thank you for your reviews. Just to let you know, if you listen on Spotify,

you can review on Spotify now. So get on there. Do it. Give us five stars. It helps the show. We don't understand why. It's their algorithm, not ours. It helps drive you up the charts. Help us out a lot. Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com right now for tickets to live shows all throughout

2022. Tons of live shows lined up. Get those now. A lot of them pretty close to sold out because they were for sale two years ago and then suspended and rescheduled and all that good stuff. So get your tickets right now. Don't hesitate. Also, Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of your good stuff, all of your extras, all the bonus episodes. Anybody $5 or above, you get access to everything we do bonus-wise. There's a huge back catalog, over 100 episodes.

And we release two episodes every two weeks, one crime and sports, one small-town murder. You're going to get it all, all of it. And we promise they are hilarious. Next week, we're going to do two bonus episodes. And they're exciting. I'll announce what they are hilarious. Next week, we're going to do two bonus episodes, and they're exciting. I'll announce what they are next week, but they are very, very fun, and they're going to be wild stuff. So do that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

Plus, you're going to get a shout-out. Jimmy is going to mess up your name at the end of the show, especially if it's Italian. Watch out. It's going to be a disaster. And do that. And you can get your shout-out as well using PayPal, using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Once again, he'll screw up your Italian name or most ethnicities, but Italian especially

he's got a problem with. And speaking of that, I just wanted to say thank you to everybody for all of your condolences about Italian grandma. The outpouring, that was amazing honestly and it really not just for me my family everybody saw that there's people that in my family that follow the show and everything and they shared it with everybody and everybody was just blown away by it that she had that much impact that people liked her and it was great thank you you made our family feel very nice in a at a hard time so thank you very much for doing that we

really do appreciate that that said here comes the disclaimer it's a comedy show this is definitely a comedy show that said that doesn't mean the stories are comedy these stories are horrible and 100 absolutely true they are not no embellishments nothing for comic comic effect or anything like that these These stories are absolutely true. And I must say, pretty well researched. So we're not going to make anything up. We are comedians, but we know where the funny stuff is. And it's not, you know, there's nothing funny about someone's head being cut off.

That's not funny. There's a lot of funny stuff that goes on around it, though. There's a police force that'll just let somebody walk free for a few years. Just, I don't think it's bill. I just don't think it's him. I don't know. Just let him go.

Even though he's killing more people there, you make fun of murderers who do crazy things and think that they can get away with it. So we'll do all of that. Well, we won't do though. We never do. We never make fun of the victim or the victim's family because why james we're assholes but but

we're not scumbags you have got it so it works right there so if that sounds good to you oh boy do we have a wild show in store for you if you think true crime and comedy never go together you still might like the show but if you don't no complaining afterwards you've been warned hit the road that said i think it's time to sit back clear the lungs Jimmy let's clear them out and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this Jimmy

let's go on a trip shall we alright we are coming from Louisiana last week oh boy to uh Cedar City Utah this week going all the way there oh yeah never been to Cedar City, Utah this week. Going all the way there. Oh, yeah. Never been to Cedar City, Utah, huh?

Well, it seems like a lot of snow, from what I understand, and some mountains and stuff. Oh, yeah. It's in southern Utah here. It's about 250 miles south of Salt Lake City, so about three hours and 40 minutes up to Salt Lake. I may have been. It's down there. That's what may have been. It's down there. That's what I'm saying. It's down in that area here.

About three hours to Provo, Utah. And let's see here. About another three hours and 40 minutes, because it's right by Salt Lake City, to Holiday, Utah, which was our last Utah episode. Wow. Which was all the way back, episode 189. Way back.

It's been a while sorry about that utah the lego that was the one the lego murders where they linked it together by the because the kid brought the guy brought his kid yeah to the murders and the kid was like play here take your legos we're going to kill somebody it was a crazy ass case man so here build this starship enterprise do that i'm gonna go butcher a woman see you and. And he'd just take off. That's wild. That'll keep me occupied. It's a genius idea. It means something.

You got to bring toys, I guess. So, he brought his kid on the murders. That was wild. This is in Iron County, Utah. Iron County. Area code 435. The motto of this place, and it's fitting because they have a million of these, quote, Festival City, USA.

Oh, I can't wait. So many festivals. Or, see, there's fine print that they don't put. I read the fine print. So this is the whole motto if you read the fine print completely. Okay. Festival City, USA. No alcohol, drugs, sex, dancing, short skirts, or fun allowed.

So you got to put the fine prints important is what i'm saying very very important yeah that's pretty good james thank you so the history of this town uh began in about 1851 about 35 dudes showed up to establish an ironworks. Okay. That is some 1851 rugged manly shit. We're going to go put an ironworks digging. Yeah. In the middle of nowhere.

They were organized and traveled in two militia companies, a foot company and a cavalry company. And the actual settlement site was on the north bank of coal creek jesus christ so fun yeah no shit um the iron works apparently didn't last very long because by the late 1850s it was kind of dead so i think they probably just killed each other you know beat each other's wives and like someone's son avenged somebody else. And that was that amazing story of mass carnage. There has to be all 35 men perished in the blaze. There's a bunch of bad dudes. And for that,

we have a festival now. Yeah. Celebrate them. We celebrate them. The, after that, it became more of a, like a farming town here.

So more agriculture. Softer people. A little softer. Not much softer. No, no. Farming is out in the sun. Just enough to survive. That's rough stuff.

The iron mining continued, though. They had an iron mine there all the way through World War II and kind of didn't peter out really until the 1980s. Is that right? Yeah, it was going strong there was a lot of once the railroad came through then this became a tourist area they called it the gateway to the parks because i guess if you followed the route from the east on the railroad and went up it would go to a bunch of different national parks you go through so it does have some really beautiful scenery oh my god when you drive through

utah you're like this is unbelievable yeah majestic i really hope that this tank of gas lasts till we're out of the state because i don't want to stop i don't want to stop but the windows are clean and it's beautiful to look out yeah it's a lot of tourism here. Yeah. Um, there's still some agriculture, some, uh, Southern Utah university is here. It's about 7,000 people there. So that's going to drive the,

the age of the people here down. Obviously there was, uh, they, I guess there was prehistoric people here. I believe it. So they have like a rock art where they found of like a people's ancient cars and hieroglyphs.

Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say next. These date back from 1000 A.D. to 1300. So they have their also Iron County. This is a good quote. Iron County is the site of Utah's most horrific tragedy. Tell me more. Let's discuss, shall we?

most horrific tragedy okay tell me more let's discuss shall we when uh mormon militia men murdered men women and children at mountain meadows apparently 120 members of the baker fancher wagon train made up of families from mostly from arkansas and headed to california were slaughtered um the mormon militia dressed as native americans convinced members of the piute tribe i believe if i'm saying that wrong i'm sorry i looked it up piute tribe uh nation to join them so they could make the attack seem like it was due to tribal hostilities make it look like that way they can go oh the the the natives attacked our people and now we have to retaliate, and then not against the Mormons, though, against them. That is fucked up. Only, apparently, 17 children under the age of seven were spared.

Everybody else was slaughtered here. So, yeah, reviews of this town after that horrible. I love the first one because it's such a contrast, too. Five stars. I love Cedar City. I guess you weren't passing through from Arkansas, were you? Not passing through from Arkansas. I come from a small town where it is peaceful and charming, but it is far away from everything.

I had to drive 40 minutes to the nearest Walmart. Cedar City is not as peaceful as my old town, but has all the charm, if not more, and is central. It has almost everything I could possibly want or need within walking distance or very short car ride. This city clearly has a history, too, and is proud of it. Don't be proud of that. Don't be proud of other things. Hopefully not that part. That's the last thing we said so it makes it sound

like certainly wow that is lined up badly i love that and can't wait to learn more about it every day holy shit well i let's when you learn about that one part you're not gonna like it very much uh that's five stars though here's three stars three stars here i've lived in in i've lived in a cedar city my whole life not necessarily this one cedar city ohio i lived in cedar city alabama from cedar city to cedar city cedar city ontario and now i'm here uh it has a lot to offer beautiful Beautiful and diverse surroundings. World-class theater. World-class theater? Really?

Stop it. A decent university. The theater's world-class, but the university, meh. So-so. A quaint downtown, a relatively safe community, and some delicious local restaurants. It has its share of problems, too. If you're not outdoorsy, there's not much to do. It has its share of problems, too.

If you're not outdoorsy, there's not much to do. Not a lot of options for employment, especially if you're hoping for a steady nine to five office job with benefits and opportunities for career growth. It's a fast growing community, which means fast growing housing prices and the pay in the area doesn't reflect that. People in the area are often unwelcome of newcomers from out of state. They have an irrational fear of the local culture being tainted. As we've seen from there, they didn't even want people from Arkansas passing through. They weren't even staying.

They were just passing through. They weren't even open to Arkansas's culture. Spare only the toddlers. Everyone dies. What? Holy shit. That's kind of what they are here.

Cedar City isn't a small town anymore, but locals don't want to acknowledge that. It's still a small town. I don't know what the hell. I don't know where she's from, but relax. Or he, I don't know. Cedar City. Oh, I'm sorry. They tend to blame newcomers for the town's problem.

One problem, apparently. Cedar City isn't a small town. Never mind. Cedar City is a town of unfulfilled potential. You're just complaining it was too big now. Here's two stars. I like this one. I wouldn't call it perfect.

I moved here about nine years ago, and all the kids in the schools were rude, as were the teachers. I like when they have a specific complaint like this. Stuff is pretty overhyped and expensive here. It sure is beautiful but dry and very bad for your health. Air quality is okay but when fire season hits, you breathe smoke.

In my neighborhood, you can't go a few days without hearing a siren from something. Okay, a siren from something? That means that the local services are working. That's good. They're helping. Calm down.

And from something that means that the local services are working that's good helping yeah and from something and every year about two crime scenes happen in my neighborhood some people may call it safe but if it comes to emotional and mental safety and health cedar is a pile of trash okay my goodness also really hard to make money and find a job there are maybe a few nice people who have lived here for a bit and maybe a few nice locals, but most people are stuck up and rude, which makes it impossible to make any friends. Only good thing is when you're moving to a more affordable place, you can sell your house in Cedar for a ton of money and buy a newer, cheaper one and earn some money. This place really scars you for life. Good God. There are very few places in the world, James, where the housing is

outrageously expensive, yet there are always sirens for things. Yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't make any sense. This person, their two-star review much more succinct, but pretty much the same thing, but way more succinct. Quote,

there is only one bar. That's it. That's the whole review. They don't care about all that shit. They're like, I want to get Haver to the one place, but I don't really like it. Bartender's kind of an asshole. Moe's is not for me. Not for me.

So people in this town, population, today it's swelled, 36,090. Wow. It is shot up, though. I mean, it's swelled 36,090. Wow. It is shot up, though. I mean, it's like really shot up here. A few more males than a few more females and males, but pretty much in the average median age is a little under 27, which is way younger than the national average. But colleges in the town. So seven thousand. A lot of Utah, you know, is one of those states where there's not big cities there's salt lake no that's about it that's about it it really is so this is one of those things where

seven thousand out of the 36 000 are college kids yeah and then people have a lot of kids there is a lot of mormon population so you're gonna end up with kids that lower that age and southern utah is very similar to west texas where it's fucking it's few and far between. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The towns are spread out. They really are. Married populations about 53 percent, which sounds low for Utah.

But for a college town, that is outrageously high. It's high. Yeah, that's really high for a college town. It's higher than the national average here. Divorce rate is low. Widow rate is like half. So young married people is what you're getting there. This is a college town, 6% single with no children.

Is that right? In a college town. That is absolutely astounding. I don't even know what to say about that. Race of this town, not shocking. It's Utah. 83% white. It's about right.

Point is not right. It's right. Yeah. That's about right. Point. Not right. It's right for Utah. That's about right. That's about how I like it. It's a little higher, but that's doing pretty good. Let's try to get that up to 93 if you can, Utah.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that's about what you figure for Utah. You're going to go above 80% probably. 0.3% black. That is staggeringly low. Wow. That's very low. 0.3 percent black that is that's staggeringly wow that's very low 0.5 percent asian uh three percent native american so there's a more native american than normal obviously it's normal i think it's two percent in the in the whole country maybe is that right yeah it's not a lot at all here um and 10 percent his. So it's not, it's pretty white, basically. Religion of this town, 80% are religious.

80.5%, which is as high as we've ever had. That is crazy. A couple of Baptists, 1%. 5% Catholic. A Lutheran here or there. 72% Mormon. My Christ, are you kidding? That is, wow. That's a lot. That's a heavy, heavy. 72% Mormon. My Christ. Are you kidding?

That is, wow. That's a lot. That's a heavy, heavy. That's why there's one bar. Yeah. And it's being eyed the whole time by everyone in town. There's a lot of secret handshakes and shit happening. Wow. 0.0% Jewish.

That's not, yeah, no. Let's see. In the county, very conservative in this county. It's rural Utah. Seventy six percent Republican in the last election. Twenty percent Democrat. Five percent independent, which is actually high. So economy here in this town, the median household income is pretty low.

Unemployment rate is low, too, but it's a lot of lower paying jobs. It's a lot of retail jobs and restaurants and things like that. Median household income, $42,000, which is about 15,000 less than the national average. Cost of living, 100 is regular. Here it's 91, so pretty close. Housing is a 101, so pretty close to that as well average um at median home cost 280 500 so much for out of the realm of affordable what they were they were saying how it's i mean it's still a lot of money but it's average for the country so they're acting like it was so

outrageously out of bounds to america friend yeah it's just you live here now. So that said, if we've convinced you, damn it, you have to be in Cedar City, Utah. It's the only place for you. We have for you the Cedar City, Utah Real Estate Report. Okay, your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 728 dollars so that is very low that's affordable that's college prices that's good i found some homes here there aren't a lot of there's no real like shit places here it's kind of like a nice little small town when it comes to that uh i found one here it's a three bedroom one bath 1100 square foot house um it looks it looks like maybe like somebody's like hip grandma died there that's kind of the way yeah it's kind of the way it looks like it uh bad backsplash weird

weird shit like that um it's a little bit creepy uh very large jesus picture it's an interesting but i don't know if that comes with the home or not either way 240 000 and jesus stays 239 9 without the jesus picture maybe i don't know so got another one here this one six bedroom Six bedroom, four bathroom. My God. 4,533 square feet. It's a big old house. It's a nice house. Kind of has like that Utah, you know, Colorado rustic wood look to it. Southwest-y, yeah. Yeah.

Antlers. You just see antlers. You know, it's one of those places where you're like, antlers would go well there for some reason. $785,000, though, for that. Holy shit. But it's a big-ass house. That's a big house. Next one here, let's go big time.

Let's say you have the whole church. We're going to go bigger than number two, James? You got a whole church in your downline, let's say. You're ready to do this. You took everyone for their LuLaRoe money. It was a lot of, because they were Mormon and there was a lot of that. There was plenty of, yeah. Five bedroom, five bath, T-Ball for each and every b-hole here.

6,524 square feet. Big pool. Most of the pictures of the place are the pool. They're really proud of it. Showcase that motherfucker. Really proud of it. Plenty of animals. I feel like to move into these places, you need to just have animal heads there.

They go, well, how many heads you got? You're like, well, I only have two. They're like, I don't know. I don't know if we can sell it to you. There's a zoning requirement here for heads. You got any antelope? That's a requirement. Anything?

1.9 million bucks for that, though. $2 million. $2 million. It's a big place. A lot of room, some acreage. You know how it goes. So let's get to things to do since it's Festival City, USA. Oh, boy.

Quickly to run through some festivals here that they have. Utah Shakespeare Festival, Frontier Homestead Folklife Festival. USA quickly to run through some festivals here that they have. Utah Shakespeare Festival Frontier Homestead Folklife Festival. That makes sense. Oh, boy. Utah Summer Games. They liken it to like a mini Utah Olympics. What?

I don't know. It's a it's a Olympics where white people can win for once. I think finally you want to bet cornhole's involved yeah someone blonde is gonna win the gold god damn it for once that's what they're saying here uh the midsummer renaissance fair utah ufo festival which we'll talk about here oh my god uh some children parade parade uh deals uh Great American Stampede. Iron County Fair. Red Rocks Improv Festival. Oh, fucking shoot me. Yuck. Cedar Livestock and Heritage Festival. Paiute Tribe Restoration Festival and Pow Wow.

Belgian Waffle Ride. What? And there's no waffles there. But it's a bike race, but they call it the Waffle Ride. Don't you have me show up someplace thinking waffles yeah there's gonna be waffles and then i get there and it's no ride a bike motherfucker we are fucking fighting i swear to god i will beat the shit out of somebody why would they call it that i i don't understand that here to get get people to show up. Otherwise, riding my bike, I can do that in my spare time.

Where's the waffles, man? Here's a 10-speed. What? I'm hungry. I came for waffles. Lay down some cracks. Those tires look like waffles. Oh, come on now.

Okay, there's the Utah UFO Festival. Let's talk about that quick. They say, quote, this is not an ordinary UFO conference. We are completely inclusive and free to the public. You know, like those elitist other UFO organizations that keep everyone out. You apply for years and years and you just can't get in. You know how that goes. You got to have a sponsor and shit.

None of that here. It's like harvard when you go there it's ridiculous uh we we want to hear about your ufo experiences imagine saying that everyone tell me your fucking ufo experiences i want to hear them we're truly a grassroots festival which means that we are building this from scratch and trying to be as inclusive as possible also we have no building and this takes place on the grass which is also why we call it grassroots twice it's your fat ass right on oh my god it says it's not another quote commercial crapshoot what wow we believe that through photography and skillful skillful interpretation we can observe and change the social stigma surrounding the UFO question and finally answer, are we alone in the universe?

We're tired of being looked at like idiots. We're going to answer it with an astounding no. Through embracing the folklore and mysteries of the desert southwest, we can spread a fun and informative enthusiasm for space the final frontier oh god my god they're all going to figure it out there out in the utah desert there's the livestock festival they have a entry antique tractor and horse pull there's a dutch oven contest apparently you just see who can keep their significant other's head under the covers after a rip, roar, and fart the longest. As soon as that became called that, why would you ever call anything that? Frank wins.

His wife threw up three times. She's got tears coming down her face. Obviously, Frank wins. Jesus Christ. Frank ate four cans of Dinty more for dinner that he left out in the sun so apparently that's the trick stephanie's eyes look at him mascara running what the fuck there's also a sheep parade ah would you look at them she don't like that look at that one no no third from inside that's the pretty one right there. A sheep parade.

That's scary. Dutch ovens and sheep parades. Dutch ovens, sheep parades, and a cowboy poetry contest. I give up, man. I fucking give up, bro. I give up. That's it. Do they read the poetry to their sheep?

That's what I mean. Oh, that's scary. That's scary I mean. Oh, that's scary. That's scary. And then quickly, the funny part is we have no time to stop and go over this because we could spend 20 minutes on this. Forever. Yeah. The Iron County Fair.

This is the quote. Don't miss the beautiful baby contest. What? There's also a demolition derby, fish grab, little buckaroo junior rodeo. Iron County Fair's got talent. probably not, Miss Iron County, and Miss Rodeo Iron County. Those are very different women, by the way. One has chaps on is the difference. Yeah, one's rugged as shit.

Mudbog parade and then, quote, miscellaneous activities. We're just going to do some shit. I don't know what they're going to do. They're going to get mud on Miss Iron County. We're going to get her muddy. She actually likes that. This place is so much fun. Wow.

Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in. Property crime is right about at the average. Now, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average. Is that right? Yeah, it's a little bit low. Looking good.

So not bad. That said, let us talk about a murder. I cannot wait. An especially horrific murder, I must say here. This is a strange one. It's just a weird. And then you're going to, a lot of times people will talk about it, and some people are like, ah, the end of the episodes, like some of the legal stuff, like the appeals, like I don't care about that.

I'll kind of zone out during that. Don't do that this week. It's from the second from now till the end. It is completely batshit. So I'm telling you, hang on here. So let's go back in time. Not too far, actually, to to 1998 what do you say here what a time jimmy's life was great jimmy well how thick was your hair back then good right so lush

lush right it was fantastic you were like cutting the shit out of it like you're dying you're shaving it anyway he's dying the tips blonde like a douchebag. Yeah, I had a Caesar and everything. He's like, I want to look like that guy from Sugar Ray if it kills me. What an asshole I was. That was the year I got robbed, James. Oh, perfect. It all changed for me, and I stopped carrying cash. When did that happen?

What month? What month? I want to say May of 98. Well, this is July of 1998. Right around then. You were recovering from it then. You were doing well here. It was not a good time.

July 9th and going into the morning of July 10th of 1998 we have to go to. And what a scene here. I don't know what the shifts are at the cedar city police department but i sincerely hope that one doesn't start at midnight because if this is the first thing you find on your shift like if you get there you got a cup of coffee in your hand still and you go out just pull out of the station and you're waiting for a call and then you get this that's a bad day like holy shit wow i just Holy shit. Wow. I just got here. Can we get 1220 a.m.? This is several police officers arrive at a home in Cedar City in response to a 911 call from a neighbor. And it was a simple here.

A couple. There was a couple of calls saying different things. One said there was some screaming or just some loud behavior and they didn't know what it was. And one said there was gunshots somewhere. So they respond to this. So there's some sort of disturbance here. So another neighbor told the 911 dispatcher

that she heard, quote, a man and woman yelling and heard sounds of children crying at one point. So we have gunshots to a man and woman yelling and heard sounds of children crying at one point so we have gunshots to a man and woman yelling and children crying and that person didn't hear gunshots though all the worst sounds terrible all of these are terrible was there also a dog yelping in pain jesus there's a dog yelping in pain there is uh there there's the sound of uh taps being played on a trumpet it's terrible something sounds suspicious i hear shovel digging yeah it's bad stuff i heard that i heard a truck like revving up that's not

good all sorts of stuff here so coming from the uh home of a woman named claudia ben who uh lives there with her daughters and grandchildren. We'll talk about that. So the officers arrive at the house. They kind of set up a little perimeter just to see what's going on. When they go around the back of the house, they notice that much like in last week's, this is an interesting coincidence, that the sliding glass door has been broken out.

They notice that. Yeah, the sliding glass doors are just murder traps. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I'm going to wall this thing in. I'm telling you, these murderers see a sliding glass door, and they don't even think twice about it. They're just like, I can see it, so they just throw a rock through it

and run right into it. I got to break it. I don't even need to go through it, but I got to break it. It's insane, man. So, yeah, he broke this thing with a rock. It's been broken out and the glass had been like removed like all the shards that stick in like it's been like broken out yeah like you may it's been made to be like this open doorway now with minimal glass in there so the

police from the outside yell anybody inside come the fuck out let's you know step on out here and uh a man comes out the opposite way of the house because this is in the back with the sliding glass door from the garage a man stumbles out from the garage uh now this man you know you you're in a home who knows who he is it could be anybody This particular man is absolutely covered in blood. I mean, fucking head to toe, covered in blood like he was bathing in it, which is a problem immediately. Like I said, this isn't the first thing you want to see. No, certainly questions. Yeah.

You're still on your first cup of coffee. This isn't what you want to encounter. Like, holy shit, I was going to give a speeding ticket or something ticket or something ease into the day this is wild with decaf this is crazy take some weed from a college kid around the block this is fucking ridiculous so uh covered in blood and he states right away that i killed her stabbed her with a knife yikes killed her and they're like oh now he's got cuts on him too the whole thing's a fucking disaster um so right away they're like well let's sit you over here hands behind your back first of all uh while we figure out what's going on and they're like we

he seems disoriented um he's not walking very straight so they're they don't even know if he's of his right mind or if that might be his blood because he's got cuts all over his hands so they're they don't even know if he's of his right mind or if that might be his blood because he's got cuts all over his hand so they don't know is he bleeding out right now and he's dizzy yeah they have no idea what's going on here so the one officer uh destry griffiths he's name destry yeah it's a cool fucking name destry that's it it's not a cool name destry it's a bad name d-e-s-t-r-y yeah most bad ass dirt bikers in the world okay it's for a dirt biker it's a good name yeah for a normal human being it's not a good name for a guy at the check stand you're like yeah destry is it destry for a guy who's gonna die in a cloud of dust, it's a fine name.

The last thing on earth he's going to hear is, as the other bikes fly over him. Yeah, that's a solid name. That's a great name for him, the poor Destry. Die in a cloud of dust. It's a great name for him if he does die now i'm gonna feel terrible if he dies he's kicked the shit out of cancer twice he's a pretty badass well keep me informed on that guy if he gets killed uh but for a cedar city police officer i don't know about destry as the name he witnesses uh this guy coming out of the house and he says this is a police officer quote i heard a door slam and saw a shadow coming out of the doorway this is getting creepier imagine that this is cinematic think about this it really

is they show up things broken out the door slams you see a shadow it looks bigger because it's a shadow and it comes out and the man's covered in blood which is even scarier than a large shadow like it's like steven king it's yeah this is amazing uh he said quote i told him to get down he was wearing pants and shoes no shirt i saw the blood on his hands and asked him quote where'd you get the blood yeah oh for 7-eleven let's get it like i've been looking for some got a super big blood just 44 ounce or you fill it up it's like 89 cents yeah it's a blood buster it's a blood buster yeah they're really good they sell in circle k he says where'd you get the blood the answer was quote i killed her i stabbed her with a knife. They were like, okay. Takes a pause, then he says, Satan wanted her dead.

Oh. So the cop's like, okay then. Cop said, oh, no. Pardon? Tomorrow's my anniversary. Now I'm missing. Jesus Christ. Now that's, ah.

I have the worst luck. Oh, right. Maybe not the worst luck. Second worst luck. Second worst luck. Maybe not the worst luck. Second worst luck. Second worst luck because it gets bad here. So Satan wanted her dead. So there's another officer there, Officer J.R. Robinson. And he says that this guy appeared to be intoxicated in some way, shape, or form.

Didn't seem to be in his right mind. And the guy then, the murderer, allegedly, self-professed murderer here, well, Satan's minion, as he might go at this point, he said, quote, do me a favor, just shoot me, okay? Please, just shoot me.

Come on. Not allowed. Robinson said, I told him I couldn't do that. Like, I'm sorry, we're not allowed. It's my job, man. Regulations. You can't just do it if I ask you. You can't just ask me to do it. No, I got a pension. Now that I know you want me to, I can't.

See, that's how it works. If you didn't want me to, I could just empty my clip. Yeah, then I could just do it. Now that he asked for it. I'm sorry. It happens all the time. You'll see a guy on the highway, like some showdown, and he's got like four assault rifles and a grenade launcher. And he's like, I just want to die.

And they're like, we're not going to shoot you, man. We're not allowed now. Yeah. You said you wanted to die, so we can't do it. It's very strange. So they said no. Obviously, we can't do it. It's very strange. So they said, no, obviously we can't do it. So this is fucking wild.

So inside the house, obviously, they're very curious to see inside the house at this point and see what's going on. So they go into the house and they find a woman face down in the living room. She is partially nude face down in the living room. Okay. Uh, she is partially nude, um, face down. There's a telephone in her left hand there and a large, very large blood stained kitchen butcher knife is lying near her head. Yeah. So,

um, not hard to add two and two together here. Right. Blood. A lot of blood has pooled in the carpeted in the carpet and the floor underneath her neck all by her head that's where the majority of the blood is and blood is all over her her backside is exposed and there's blood all over her there there's blood on her back there's blood on her you know everything everywhere here lower body

and on the floor all around her one thing they notice right away is there's a pretty nasty and large bite mark on her left arm wow like a good one not a little bite more not a love bite this is a love nibble this is a fucking i'm gonna try to take a chunk of your arm out. This is, yeah, starving. Yeah. Horror movie type shit here. Very, very horrible. Then they so they're looking around. They don't know how many more victims.

They don't know anything here. More killers, more victims, more anything. Who the fuck knows? So there's drops of blood found all over the house. They just find there's blood everywhere. They're like blood over here. So they're trying to follow trails of blood to maybe more people being, you know, because someone in this situation, if someone came into the house. They just find there's blood everywhere. They're like blood over here. So they're trying to follow trails of blood to maybe more people being, you know, because someone in this situation, if someone came into the house, broke out the back door, some home invader or something and killed. If they wounded somebody badly, they might have like crawled into a closet to hide or, you know what I mean?

So they have to look everywhere on the kitchen floor. The kitchen drawers are covered in blood. The bathroom floors got blood all over it. Blood in the sink. Blood on the kitchen floor. The kitchen drawers are covered in blood. The bathroom floor's got blood all over it. Blood in the sink, blood on the walls near the bathroom where the body was found. Just a frenzy. Yeah, blood smeared all over closet doors. It looks like five people cut themselves open

with razor blades and then had a Heathcliff-style brawl where they all just were in a big cloud of dust. You know, shaking party and just throwing it everywhere. Yeah. They just had a mosh pit in here while they were all having giant open wounds. It's there's shit everywhere. So they did say that nothing in the house seemed to be disturbed, though. There's blood everywhere, but there's no like it's not trash nothing's knocked over there's no like uh drawers aren't rifled through there's none of that shit closets

aren't torn apart with shit on the floor it's just smeared it looks like somebody like stumbled around and just smeared couldn't get their footing or something they said quote there was blood be uh throughout the home the The kitchen hallways were not sure whose blood all of it was because there were minor wounds to the suspect's hands, hands as well. But nothing was overturned or looked like it had been disturbed. So that's the police quote. So who is this woman here? Her name is Claudia Ben, B-E-n-n she is 49 years old and she's been in town for about a year a little over 14 months or so she came to work as a tribal substance abuse counselor for the piute community so yeah she's a really nice lady everybody likes her um her daughter has lived in this area for a while so that's how

she ends up here um she's also from here too now so like her daughter stayed she moved away she came back she uh she's described as a very very hard-working woman and um always doing well and trying to help people she was big like i, in the substance abuse counseling and trying to get the tribe members to avoid alcohol and drug use and all that sort of thing. So she was working at the Paiute Tribal Center there. The night that she was killed, July 9th, she had been at the tribal center and she was talking to the Paiute Tribal Council. And she recalled that night she was talking about the spiritual experience she had. She went to a tribal land along the Colorado River, and she said that it's like, it says, I'll just read the quote here from them.

They said, every year we hold the Paiute Consortium on the Colorado River where people monitor the plants in the area, and there are places that only Paiute can go because of the spirituality there. She went the first part of June. They said at our council meeting, she gave a report, and she talked about how being so calm and peaceful and having gone there had centered her

and makes her feel so good now, and she was happy. She described herself as happy and emotional and feeling great about the world that night. She's feeling wonderful on July 9th. She talked to them and she said, knowing our people lived there a long time ago, she mentioned she could feel their presence.

She was in tune with the area and knew the power that it has. She told us, I'm just really grateful I had the opportunity to go there. She told us there's a lot that they saw on a trip that was spiritual and she felt the spirit. She said she was climbing up the hill. It was a tall hill and difficult to climb. And she said when it came, when it was time to come back down, she couldn't figure out how she got up there. She said she felt like the spirits helped her up there. So she was just saying she's never felt more connected with her ancestors and the earth and all this shit. And she's in this wonderful Zen chill place right now that she feels great.

Her one friend said she touched all of us with her laughter and crying, telling us about her trip. It was a trip she needed to take. She told us, know where i come from it was really touching i think the trip was settling it was setting the path for her she was there and close to what was important to her her neighbors and people that knew her said she was quiet um kind of you know kept to herself outside of work um always had a job everyone at her job said she's a very outgoing worker she's supposed to go into the community and put on workshops and you know find out where find out where she's needed and where resources are needed and kind of go there and try to set up you know things to help that's her job so um the one one of her bosses said quote i never really

saw her that much in the office she was always out on the road that's right was her job yeah it's a yeah it's a it's a pretty crazy job uh yeah uh this woman said she impacted a lot of people she always wanted people to be happy depending on what lifestyle we came from that could sometimes be hard. But rather than be gloomy, she was always caring about the fellow man, always stopping to talk, ask how you were doing. This is a terrible blow for us. She apparently worked for years at the University of Utah Women's Center. And her friend said she always had a dream to come back and work with her own people

and she got to do that at least for a short time so native lady yeah she's a native too yeah she's that's yeah she went to the whole went back and connected with her yeah spiritual what do you think she was fucking dutch i don't know i see a i see a white man with braids and beads and fucking sedona oh no no no no no she, no. She's actually a native woman. She's actually native and getting back to... For me to do that, I'd have to go back to... I feel so good talking to the... Helping the people of this downtrodden tribe.

Yeah, no, she's not her. She's actually a... Some lady named Nancy. Helping her own people. Yeah, no, this is totally different. Totally different deal here. You don't have to go to, like, fucking Germany and eat something sour. And that's the other thing.

I think it gets overlooked a lot is a lot of these tribal communities, especially, like, I know in Canada, a lot of them, it's not talked about a lot, but these are very poor areas. They don't have a lot. It's really desperate times for a lot of people here. This is the, for lack of better terms, this is like, you know, a lot of these areas are like the ghetto. You know what I mean? What you would say. You wouldn't think that because it's more rural. It's not an urban environment, but it doesn't matter.

Like the money's not there. Employment's not there. It's really difficult. So substance abuse is a problem as well. Like the money's not there. Employment's not there. It's really difficult. So substance abuse is a problem as well. Like it is everywhere. And so this is an important thing. So back to the crime scene. The police said we found a knife and there's some evidence of stab wounds with no no gun or any sign of any gunshots.

So they don't know where the fuck that 911 call came from about gunshots. It's so strange that someone heard something to call, but they heard gunshots. Who knows? You ever hear a fucking glass break like that? Sometimes it sounds like a gunshot. That is a loud bang. Maybe like a door slamming really loud. That's possible, but I mean i mean gunshot how hard was

he hitting her with that knife jesus one door slam wouldn't make me pick the phone up and call the cops and go i think i heard a gunshot like how paranoid do you have to be for that how fast are you slamming that door yeah how hard could you slam it fucking frame will come off so the police chief of cedar city said at first the exact cause of death hadn't been determined because there's a knife and there is multiple issues here that we need to talk about. She has just been, this is horrible. So, yeah, they said that nothing was overturned or anything like that.

Dr. Maureen J. Fricke, that's from the state medical examiner's office, said finally that Claudia had died as a result of multiple knife wounds to the throat. She said there was one very large sharp cut that penetrated to the neck bone and went from ear to ear. So basically a Nicole Simpson is what it was. That's the same type of thing that happened to Nicole Simpson. Just such a throat slashing with such force that it almost cuts the head off. If it wasn't for this.

Yeah. If it wasn't for the spine, the head wouldn't be there anymore. You want to hear about hatred. Wait till we hear the rest of it. But first of all, who the fuck is this asshole who did this? Let's talk about that.

Who's the asshole covered in blood babbling about satan and begging for death let's see um he is his name is tabaron dave honey h-o-n-i-e tabaron and dave is his middle name we'll call him tabaron dave let's go with dave for the middle name i don't know so um now honi he's only 22 years old honi youngster we said claudia was 49 what's do they have a connection or is he just a random guy well they definitely have a connection because he has had an ongoing on and off relationship with claudia's daughter carol okay uh carol pick yavit is her name now they also have a two-year-old daughter together so that's why this thing lingers on and on and on they have a child together so these relationships you can extricate yourself from a relationship but when there's a child

involved it's almost it makes it so much harder around that person all the time or at least once in a while that's what i'm saying you're always forced to have some interaction you have to talk about the kid to exchange the kid all that kind of shit so a bad relationship with these kid exchanges is terrible so uh they have a anyway they've had the child and uh this two-year-old was one of the children by the way because we didn't talk about that. And we'll get to that. Who was home at the time of this murder, by the way, because she lives there with Claudia. So now he is described, Honey, as a 22 year old homeless man. At this point, who witnesses repeatedly when he was in the driveway and one cop is sitting with him he

was repeatedly shouting quote satan made me do it satan made me do it satan made me do it oh my repeatedly those times those people scream that shit just because they know how fucked up they they are and how how really fucked they just made this situation yeah maybe they think i don't know, and if you're a religious person, maybe you have some sort of thought that Satan took over you, you know, like, oh, Satan must have taken it.

That's a way for you to, like, smooth it over in your own mind. I can make this work in my brain if that happened. You know, I don't know. That's just a thought. I don't know what's going on. Homeless man at the moment. Yeah, I don't know what's going on at the moment. Well, yeah, I don't know what's going on in the thought of the mind of someone who's full of alcohol and covered in blood and screaming about Satan and just committed a murder.

So who knows? So one of the police officers said, quote, he started to say something about the occult and Satan. But there's nothing to indicate that this was any kind of ritualistic crime. And as we'll talk about it it you'll see that definitely not they're going to go ahead and charge him with aggravated murder for that because you know the right away they're just looking at the scene and hearing what he's saying they're like well that's an aggravated murder um the by the way maximum sentence for aggravated murder in this state is death penalty you bet as we'll talk about um the about honey he has been in trouble kind of since school since high school he his first kind of brush with any kind of uh trouble that would

be documented in paperwork is in ninth grade when he is suspended for smoking marijuana at school at school at school which i mean we've all done that but you don't get caught for doing it that's what you got to do is we hide it really well yeah i mean i yeah we had get it but you don't it i want to know the circumstances was he trying to to hide it or was he just being a dipshit you know like showing off yeah like i had you know like the they still have them too but they were more prominent kind of in the 90s like those like it looks like a cigarette it's a metal thing and you stuff the weed and you smoke it that way yeah i used to do that i used to have one of those and i'd smoke that at school and that way

if any of the teachers saw you they just go hey go, hey, put that cigarette out. And you'd be like, oh, sorry. And they'd walk away. What did you live in, James? Fucking New York. What, are they going to monitor for cigarettes? They were just like, nobody stab each other. Everybody stop. Fucking people are crazy. The kids are insane back here.

They're fucking nuts. They're just trying to keep everyone alive until the end of the day. If you're smoking, just put it out. Please. Please put it out. Don, please put it out. Don't do it right in front of me, for God's sake. We had a Pepsi fountain on campus, and you would have your cup. We would put a hole in the bottom of the cup and then put a joint or a cigarette in the lid,

and then you just take a drag on it. It looks like you're taking a drink out of it. But you got to blow that out. You got to exhale. That's the problem. Yeah, you got to exhale. That's going to be the issue. And that's how we got caught. I remember in eighth grade, kids smoking behind the bleachers in gym class. And the teacher would be like, why the hell does it smell like smoking here?

And they're looking everywhere for smoke. And they're just smoking cigarettes behind the bleachers. The whole fucking gym is full of smoke. That was in Phoenix in eighth grade when I went there for one year. I used to smoke in the bathroom, in the stall. Between every single class, I would go take three, four drags off a cigarette and fling it down the toilet and flush it and then blow it out in the stall and walk out. But eventually the security guards would just come in the bathroom and watch over the stall for cigarette smoke. Post up for fucking.

It's a pretty easy. It's a pretty easy catch. You would think. Pretty easy catch. Hanging a net out of the boat at that point and they're jumping right in. And you walk out of the stall and they're like, let's go to the office. You're like, oh, I'm caught. Oh my God.

Because I'm an idiot. My school is just cloud of smoke coming out of the bathroom at all times. Constantly. Constantly. So he's got in trouble for that. He got suspended and his parents enrolled him at the time though in counseling

and treatment. So they were on top of that shit actually. I mean my parents wouldn't have done that. No. They would have been like, don't smoke. Are you out of your fucking mind? Smoke weed at school? They called me. Do you understand they called me?

I was at work. That's my job. I was at work and they called me. How fucking embarrassing that is. Yeah. That would be what I got. Not counseling and treatment. That's not happening.

Don't do it again. Don't embarrass me. Let me counsel you for a minute get over here the fuck is wrong with you that's what i would got definitely so he uh apparently he's kind of fall i mean he's only 22 he's been out of school a few years and he's just kind of fallen into heavy drinking and general fuck aboutness just general fuckery he doesn't take his daughter obviously because where's he going to take her? He's homeless.

He's got no house. Yeah, it's kind of hard to do there. He apparently has been with Carol on and off since about 94. He was arrested in 95 for beating her unmercifully while drinking heavily and was convicted and spent 90 days in jail for it. So, oh, boy. Yeah, it was a tribal court. He was convicted by. Yeah, he was.

He beat the crap out of this poor woman back then. So that was 95. So that's three years earlier. He beat the crap out of her here. Was she pregnant at the time? I don out of her here so pregnant at the time i don't know if she was pregnant at the time or after that i think after that but that's a yeah because she was to the daughter it could have gone either way it could have could have been either way either way though um not great put it that way so he apparently was a known

alcoholic at the time everyone in town knows this guy is like oh that guy he's gonna be stumbling around drunk he's homeless uh he'd been working recently actually he's had a job he's worked uh he got a job like a in a in a staffing agency so he's worked at multiple places because they stuff they're all temp shit yeah uh he's recently been fired from the temp agency due to absenteeism though because you know you have to actually show up for the jobs they fucking tell you to go for is the problem that's the problem really is they want you to show up and you're like ah christ i gotta show up now um so he like said, been convicted of beating his girlfriend there. During the months leading up to this whole murder issue, he was fired from several jobs at several of Cedar City's, what they said, largest employers here. He worked at Western Rock, O'Sullivan Industries, and Gore, G-O-E--r i don't know what the fuck that is goer i guess he

was got these jobs through sos staffing services in cedar city and um you know he was sent there the woman that sent him the manager who sent him out on these jobs said you know it's normal for people to switch jobs all the time they send usually send them out for kind of seasonal needs or if they have somebody on maternity leave or something, they plug somebody in for a couple months. This sounds like construction work, though. Like Western Rock sounds like fucking concrete. Yeah, I don't think he's doing – he's not doing like high finance, I doubt. He's doing tough stuff. Just based on his background, I feel like based on his alcoholism

and uh early marijuana use it doesn't sound like he's probably not managing hedge funds out there no i don't think he just graduated from college is what i'm saying i think he had more of like my background where they'd be like well you can lift that shit over there maybe maybe put that shit right over there not gonna pay you much for it, but you can do it, I guess. That's the jobs we were looking for when we were 22. Put it on that truck. But don't you dare get behind the wheel. You're not qualified.

You are. You are not qualified to drive, for Christ's sake. Jesus, you got to go to school for that. Yeah. So, yeah, he's been terminated from all these jobs. She said at one point she said, quote, we terminated him because he didn't have good performances for two or three of our customers. His absenteeism was mostly just life problems, landlords, car trouble, that sort of thing. You know, excuses when you're too hungover to go to work.

That sort of thing. Yeah. Life troubles. Shit like that. Yeah. Oh, man, my landlord and the thing and i gotta stay here i gotta burst pipe and electric company shut the power off my alarm didn't happen you know how it goes it's terrible my car broke down now i gotta get it fixed and

i gotta pick my kid up from school at two all this day has turned into real shit i'm sorry i can't make it uh none of these companies reported any sort of violence or, you know, like behavioral issues. It's just not showing up. He wasn't threatening. He wasn't threatening people. He's just kind of a ne'er-do-well shitbag. That's all. Just like that guy's one of the places.

Here's a quote from her quote. One of the places we sent him didn't want him back because they had the impression he was intoxicated on the job. Okay. That'll do it. What he lacks is motivation to even give a fuck enough to be violent. Alcohol's an issue, clearly. If you're drinking at work, alcohol's an issue for you. Especially this kind of job.

It's not like he works at a bar and his job is to kind of make a fun environment. His job is working with rocks and equipment and sharp metal and shit. And it's temporary work. It's not even like he has tenure and they just trust him to do his job right. I don't care anymore. I'm retiring in six more months. I got six months more on this job. I don't even care.

This guy's got 30 years left. He's not even hired yet. This is not good not great um he's the woman also said they the companies have drug screenings but unless it's specifically requested they don't test for alcohol so you know as long as that's generally the easiest one to pick up on too yeah yeah as long as you don't stink of booze and are stumbling around they're not going to notice so uh one of the guys who he worked for actually said that he was stunned to learn about this murder accusation he said he seemed like a very pleasant individual well-mannered i spoke to him at the time he was hired and didn't see any problems i was very surprised when i read about

this okay i mean he was drunk but he seemed like a happy drunk didn't seem like the uh the sober type to fight yeah well i mean there's a lot of people i know who were drunks where i'd be very surprised if they killed somebody you know i'd be like wow that seems out of character they're drunk but i mean fuck you know uh i've seen him kill a 12 pack but not a person not a person sherry larson who's the human resource director at gore gore gore whatever it is said that honey worked at the store fixtures store fixtures manufacturer from march 17th through may 11th that's almost two months not bad quote he was scheduled to work 40 hours a week for us in our mill area in the beginning he was a good employee he showed up every day for a while for a while in the beginning it was two months

two that's what i mean two months is the beginning he showed up every day for a while what's that three weeks uh then all of a sudden his attendance got uh got pretty bad it dropped off badly and she said though she was very surprised to hear about his arrest though she said nobody had any confrontations or problems with him he was just kind of a slacker basically that was his whole when i described the beginning of my employment somewhere it's usually the first i don't know five years nope first the first week i'll tell you he showed up sober most of the time. Pretty sure he was sober. After that, though, it really kind of fell off the rails.

Two months. Two months time. Wow. So July 9th, what triggered all this? What's the problem? Apparently he was shit-faced that night on July 9th, as we found out from when he stumbled out to the police. He was at the home of his girlfriend. Shil john is her name he's dating another woman he's this is the fucked up part he's at her home at another woman's home he's a homeless man who found a girlfriend a homeless alcoholic who can't stay

employed at a temp agency wow yet still found a girlfriend that's got their own apartment. He's crushing it. He's crushing it for what he should be. So he calls up Carol, Claudia's daughter, his ex that he has a daughter with, and says, come over here and join me at the house over here. Come hang out with me at my girlfriend's house. I guess she wasn't home. I don't know what. But this is a little weird. So Carol said, no, I'm not going here. No, you're an asshole, A.

And B, you have a girlfriend. And C, I have to be at work to work the fucking night shift. So I'm not going to come hang out with you. It's never going to happen. He said, please come over, hang out with me. She said, I told you I have to work. I'm not coming. He said, please come over. Hang out with me. She said, I told you I have to work. I'm not coming. He said, come over.

If you don't, I'll kill your mother. I'll kill her. I'll fucking kill her dead. And he said, she said, yeah, yeah, right. Whatever. Yeah, whatever. He goes, I'll kill your mother. I'll kill all the children and your sister.

Because by the way, the sister also lives with Claudia with her two kids. So there's three small children there at the time that live there. He said, I'll come over and kill everybody. The kids, our kid, her kids, her, your mom, you, everyone's going to die tonight. That's how you're going to come home. That's what she says. She said, yeah, right. Because she literally said she discounted the threats because he threatens her so often with murder and mayhem that she doesn't even register it anymore.

He literally says, I'm going to go kill your whole family. And she's like, whatever, dude, I'll talk to you later. And I go, yeah, I got to go to work. I'll call you tomorrow. Like, it's not even a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Kill your whole family.

OK. Yeah. You know, you know what I'm going to say, right? Shitty man. i'll call you tomorrow like it's not even a a thing yeah yeah kill your whole family okay yeah you know you know what i'm gonna say right shitty man that's just horrible it's horrifying so deep to be involved with somebody that that they're threats you don't even you can't even take them seriously anymore no i mean you just especially when he is when he's drunk like that too she's like he's spouting off drunk and that's just how he is so this was between 8 and 8 30 he called and he called a couple of times as a matter of fact um to talk about this um she said like i said she's going to work um carol said that during the three years she knew him he's made numerous countless threats on her mother's life so So this was nothing new. She had been working as a temp on the graveyard shift at O'Sullivan Industries,

which is also, he had a job there temporarily as well, too. So she'd been working there for about a month and a half, and there's a chance for her to get hired on full-time there. So she's doing what you do when you work a temp job and you want to get hired full-time. She's showing up on time, not missing shifts, being sober, at least most of the time, I hope. You know, like the things you do when you want to get hired. Doing the job. Yeah.

So she said she's trying to become a full time employee. It's a ready to assemble furniture plant. So it's like Ikea. They make like shit furniture that you have to put together that perplexes me to no end and i can't do so um she said quote he told me if i went to work he'd go to my house and kill my mom great so uh then he also said well tell you what i'll kill your whole family and i'll take our daughter instead of killing her i'll just take her with me how about that she said She said, yeah, right.

He said that he's threatened the kid's life before, so she doesn't even think about that anymore. So Honey called twice more. She had to be to work at 11. She leaves at 10.30. He calls twice more between 8.30 and 10.30 with escalating threats, basically. on over come on i saw i'll kill your family remember that one she's like yeah yeah you said that already why is he so lonely

he's at his girlfriend's house does she work the graveyard shift too what's happening where are these people what's going on in this town i swear to christ do they all go into the fucking little miss rodeo or something like what's happening is he alone at the house is that what's supposed to be the story apparently he's alone at his girlfriend's house which he i mean i don't know he's homeless he should just take that as a win fuck man alone anywhere is fantastic he's drunken indoors this is a way awesome yeah it's not raining on you right now for an alcoholic almost man that's a win i swear to god so uh yeah he calls twice more she left for work at 10 30 and the caller id system that she had

registers another call from him after she left for work so even she said i'm leaving for work now bye and then he called back anyway just to make sure so it's a little weird uh so carol leaves her her and honi's daughter with claudia benita her sister leaves her two children with claudia as well because benita has to work also they both work the graveyard shift so uh the children were you know dressed in their pajamas and everything all ready for bed when they left because it's 10 30 so you know the kids are going to be going to sleep here meanwhile he stohoney is over here stewing about the whole thing getting more and more angry and more and more drunk about

it right and uh rather than just you know eating something terrible and passing out like a you should do if you're yeah angry and drunk it's a fucking people i'm gonna eat this cheeseburger and they're fucking assholes and then you're you fall asleep with like half a Reuben in your hand drooling on yourself. You know how it works. With all of it all over your lap. Yeah, you wake up and go, what the fuck did I do? Is that puke? Oh, man. Oh, I spilled the milkshake.

Never mind. Why did I get a milkshake? I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1

and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Honey, on the other hand, he's got other plans. He calls a taxi company. Calls up a taxi. Taxi money. He's got taxi money.

Apparently, Mike Mandel, who owns Cedar City Taxi, said, quote, one of my drivers picked him up on the south end of town on a corner near Walmart. We didn't take him to the address where the murder happened, though. That's not where his that wasn't his destination we dropped him off at DL Sargent and Main which is apparently across the intersection at about 1130 or 1145 so near there they drive so he got picked up not at his

girlfriend's house but on a corner near a Walmart and got dropped off near the house so he's obviously he's got enough sense to where he knows what he's doing and he doesn't want to connect either address to himself. So that's right away. Walmart to the diamond shamrock or some shit. And that's it.

That's it. So right away he's to me, that's your, before you've done anything, you're trying to cover up what you're doing, who you are, where you're going. So that's that right away is signs of definite premeditation here.

So, yeah, they said they didn't take him there. Rick Sweeney is the driver who picked him up. He described Honey as, quote, pretty laid back, but reeked of alcohol and definitely very intoxicated. But not drunk as shit, but not too drunk to where he didn't know where he was going or he could give him an address a location and yeah you know kind of keep with the conversation coherent and wobbly there you go coherent shit face but coherent would be a good way to put it sbc that's a good way to that's's how you classify people. He's SBC. He's cool. Don't worry about him.

He's all right. That means they're fun. Yeah. That's how I like to... Like when our audiences are. That's the... When we're out doing a live show, that's right where you want them. Shit face, but coherent.

That's when they're the best. They're laughing at stuff. They're fun. Any more shit face to get that guy in Seattle who won't shut the fuck up and he gets angry at things and we have to yell at out says yeah as he's walked out ask the ask the security am i really that bad am i really that bad we i yelled at him till i was hoarse while 700 people cheered not clapped cheered us on and yelled it while we yelled at him i threatened to beat him with the microphone and still and every seat around him pointing at him that he's the problem this

is the asshole that and he was that drunk to where he was like am i that bad that's too drunk that's what we're saying that's too drunk if you meet the guy not drunk, maybe a great guy. Likes our show. Probably a good guy. Give him another chance. I'll bet he's a sweetheart. This time, no tailgating. That's all we're saying.

Don't do kickstands in your Ford in the parking lot. Maybe have a nice roast beef sandwich beforehand. Something sturdy. Lay down a nice base in there. Like a thick crust pizza. Eat like half of that. Get something a nice base in there. Yeah, like a thick crust pizza. Eat like half of that. Get something to soak it all up. I'll bet he had that after. Yeah, I'm sure he did. One of the two.

I hope he had that after. Someone's throwing something up. So this was a $5 cab ride. Honey rode in the front of the van. Apparently it was one of those minivans. Rather than getting in the back, he got in the front seat, van apparently it was one of those minivans rather than getting in the back he got in the front seat which is that's a weird move it's a very strange move and it can be read either way it can be read as like hey i feel weird in the back like you're

driving me or it can be read as i'm invading your space up here in your office you know like which is the way i would read it i sit in the back to give you the space i would want the point of an uber or uh or a cab anything where you have a driver is for them to be shuttling you somewhere therefore get in the fucking back asshole unless there's too many people in your party to to not occupy the passenger seat then everybody in the back that's how it goes if you can if you can get in the back get in the goddamn back jesus christ a it's safer and b uh in this society it's fucking safer yeah why not i just feel like i'm invading this guy he's got like a you know stuff up there she's got her you know thing and i don't know lunch in the passenger seat yeah like i don't know what they're doing up there the seats all up and kind of forward they obviously don't want you there

they obviously put it that way for me to sit in the back that's what they want so honi rode uh in the front of the van told the driver he was going to fiddler's canyon which is this area of uh cedar city to quote visit a friend going to visit a friend so drop me off kind of randomly on the street at 11 p.m i'm gonna walk to fiddler's canyon 11 45 my friend doesn't have a driveway or a house to park in front of either apartment complex or just anything just pull into this mustang i'll be all right i'll be fine so He does that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Later on, Honey would tell the police that after arriving at the Claudia Ben and Carol's house here, he said he only came there not to kill anybody, but to, quote, sleep under the porch. So he he came.

He's like, I'm pissed at her. I'm going to talk to her when she's done with work. I'll go sleep under the porch and that way i'll hear when she comes back i'm gonna sleep in the in under the porch of the house where my child is asleep comfortably in a bed in a bed now imagine you're coming home from work yeah it's seven o'clock in the morning and you step up your front steps clap clap you're on the porch with your keys and you hear Carol you're like what the fuck you look around you don't see anybody Carol

god damn it and you're like where the fuck is that coming from under your feet you're like what the fuck is happening look down I'm under the porch Carol I can see you through the crack in the boards I see you what the fuck is his plan I'm under the porch, Carol. I can see you through the crack in the boards. I see you.

What the fuck is his plan? This guy's a fucking moron. I'm sorry. This guy's an asshole. Weird move. It's a very weird move. So he's going to sleep under the porch. But instead, for some reason, I don't know if he like went around back to look in the sliding glass door to make sure that Carol had left or whatever and wasn't just dodging him.

So she went around to the back to look in the back door. And here he is all your daughter's ex-boyfriend who used to beat her is now drunkenly staring in your sliding glass door. You're going to tell him to pound sand. Get the fuck out of here. Go leave me alone. So she does. She tells him to go away. fuck out of here go leave me alone so uh she does she tells him to go away get out of here he tell he said later on that he became upset because quote claudia was cutting him down okay cutting him down insulting him yeah i mean you're on a patio in the backyard evidently yeah uninvited you're gonna get some insults hurled at you.

And you're like, I came here to sleep under your porch. Right. You're going to get some insults. This is a woman you'd like to reconcile with. This is your mother. She's not going to be thrilled. I think you should go back with that nice young man who sleeps under our porch. Which is not something anyone's mother has ever told them, is it?

What about that nice young man who sleeps under our porch dear he seems like marriage material i don't know how you could get under a porch and even take a nap like the things that are under there oh god holy shit there's bugs and spiders and worms and shit under there oh god that's my nightmare and you can't see any of them yeah oh god no oh that's horrifying if you could reconcile with the fact that there may be a raccoon under there yeah you might have to fight a small mammal for some ground space that's scary but you're gonna tolerate the fucking hairy spiders? No.

Carol, I ate a raccoon while I was under here. Good news. Y'all don't have a raccoon family under here no more. Even better news, I'm full. Better news. I was going to ask for a ride to McDonald's, but now I don't need one. And my ears are warm because I got a new hat i made some muffs carol come on down kind of fucking ridiculous this is ridiculous why don't you give that nice boy who lives under our porch another try come on now i clean up his bottles of thunderbird every morning

seems like the one so he said that she was cutting him down and saying that her daughter was too good for him you know she lives indoors and all and isn't an alcoholic doesn't get fired by a temp agency that's not necessarily cutting you down that's just giving your daughter a mediocre bar to clear, really. You know what I mean? Yeah, a non-alcoholic. She's better than you, Jesus. Yeah, someone, you know, with a job maybe.

Right. Minimal things. Yeah. A job, some form of a roof, non-alcoholism, something of that nature. So he apparently at that stage got angry at these insults being hurled at him he's a man of great high honor and he will nobility he will not be insulted yeah he will might as well slapped him in the face with a with a glove or something he's this fucking asshole so he ends up picking up a big rock and breaking the glass door that's a

fucking bold move that is such a crazy it's such a crazy thing to do it really is uh breaks the glass door and clears some of the glass out and enters the home uh then he grabbed a butcher knife with a serrated blade too nasty one uh from the kitchen because he walked in through the kitchen and um oof he walks in uh he apparently uh she grabbed and i'm sorry she grabbed the knife with the serrated blade and held it up because you know he burst into her house with a fucking rock so she grabbed a knife off the counter and said get the fuck out of my get out of my house. Get out of my house. Held it toward him. But he stepped in and grabbed her arm and took it from her because he's drunk and doesn't have any fear.

When you're drunk like that, you're like, I'll take that knife away from you. You know, it could be Bruce Lee and you'd be like, give me that thing. And then he'd kick you twice and stab you in the face and you wouldn't know the difference. Yeah, you try. thing and then he'd kick you twice and stab you in the face and you wouldn't know the difference at it yeah you'd try that's why drunk people get the crap eaten out of them a lot in bars and stuff because they have no repercussions they don't realize danger right so he apparently took it from her and uh grabbed behind her and held the knife to her throat you know like a movie hostage style you know held around her um they fell to the floor at that point. And his story is that she landed on the knife at that point.

Okay. Landed on the knife. And yeah, he says that he only broke the window and went into the house to scare her. He just wanted to scare her because she was talking so much to him that, you know, so angry he thought that he would be like ah now now what now i scared you uh he said quote she wasn't meant to die that's what he told the cop his story is that's it i held it to her throat because she had the knife what was i supposed to do so i took it i held it to her throat but she struggled we fell and it just she fell on it and it must have cut her and that's how she died so from that story you'd expect what one wound one fatal wound that's it must have hit the artery you know and that's what happens right a lot of people fall onto a

their neck onto a knife yeah well if it was held to their throat and you fell and it fell on her on his arm you know on his arm and he jutted it in there. That's his story. Yeah. So, I mean, if that's a baby, I think it's a million dollar baby situation. We have a million dollar stab wound here and that's that. But instead they go, well, that's funny, honey. I mean, that's a terribly tragic story.

Really is. I mean, I could see you could see it happening. I'm watching it in my brain right now. But the weird part is that the medical examiner said the throat was actually cut about four times from ear to ear. Yeah, with the final one really taking it all the way back to the neck bone. Oh, can you explain the repeated, repeated stabs to the genitalia as well? Because that was all that she did. She fall on it with her genitalia as well.

Multiple, multiple times. Did that happen? Also bottle olive oil spill and she kept falling down, kept falling down. Oh, by the way, there's a bunch of like start marks, like people who people who aren't experienced in, you know in cutting people's throats or stabbing people, often the first wounds are not the deep ones. The first wounds are like starts to like see how much pressure. Oh, that's not enough.

Because you don't think, oh, I'm going to do this violent thing. You're like, how much is, oh, that didn't go. Oh, wow, the person's chest is harder than I thought it was to get a knife into. I better stab harder. So that's what happens. Same thing with with the throat cutting you don't know how much

pressure so there's like start marks of like oh i couldn't cut deep enough let her do it again there's like a bunch of those as well oh god um yeah it's it's pretty bad here so one of the neighbors said i heard a door slam oh i'm sorry. No, this is the police officer saying that. So the attack here, the postmortem of the body, buckle up, everybody, for the next couple of minutes. This is going to be brutal, absolutely brutal. But I'm going to read it right from the court documents, medical examiner, no jazzy razzmatazz here. This is just right straight from the deal so it's going to be pretty gross uh the quote the post-mortem of ben's body revealed that honi brutally slit ben's throat

honi had cut ben's neck from ear to ear four start marks on her neck ran together into a deep cut from the front of the neck through to the backbone in the back of the neck. That's the head. Three deep cuts into the backbone were identified. So three deep slashes into the backbone. Think about that. He tried to take her head. He tried three times, and he was like, well, bones are hard.

Fuck it. Yeah. was like well bones are hard fuck it yeah so quote honi also mutilated ben's lower body stabbing and cutting her multiple times both in and around the vagina and anus honi stabbed her in the vagina at least three times what the fuck man the external surfaces of the anus were cut but the deeper penetrating injuries were in the vagina, including two wounds that went through the vagina and into the pelvic cavity into her abdomen. Honey also severed the perineum, which you know what that is there. I don't think they have an explanation. I don't need to get what that is.

The medical examiner who performed the autopsy said that Ben could have been sexually violated prior to her death, but she couldn't testify for certain. However, whether the injuries to Ben's vagina and anus were inflicted before or after the injuries or whether the vaginal and angel anal injuries occurred after death, she couldn't tell anything really. Cause it all happened in the same,

so close in this, in the same minute long frenzy. So it's impossible to tell really. So, uh, this is, in the same minute-long frenzy. So it's impossible to tell, really. So this is... Oh, also, Ben's scalp, mouth, buttocks, and thighs were also bruised. So this was way more than you fell on the knife. Sustained beating and stabbing.

An absolute frenzied attack this was a all force anger i mean this is brutal this is and the only reason to determine uh whether or not which one came first is to determine uh was this torture was this like afterwards just like there now that yeah yeah absolutely well he also tried to anally rape her as well, but couldn't get it done. Couldn't get it done. So, you know how that goes, you know, when you're a drunken scumbag like that.

So there's all sorts of, this is one of the most horrible things. As maybe some of our listeners out there may be thinking right now, hey, weren't there three kids in that fucking house? Yeah, let's let's talk about those kids here those kids were found in the house they're alive luckily what that's fuck man that's helpful um which is worse two of the two of the three children had some blood on

them just uh the the other child was covered in blood from head to toe. Why? Further, this child was found wearing only a T-shirt, not wearing the underwear she was wearing when her mother left for work. Oh, no. Yeah. They eventually found them or whatever. She ended up bleeding there. That's hard. I can't even get into that. What a monster.

Yes, they said that the source of these injuries was consistent with fondling some sort of digital whatever the fuck and not likely accidental, obviously. So this is getting worse,

correct? Sure. So some of the witnesses they talked to that heard things, one Sheila Petzinger from Salt Lake City was staying the night with relatives. She said, I went to bed about midnight. I woke up and heard this really loud cracking noise. I wasn't sure what it was. i heard a couple more first there was one then there were about two or three together it woke me up i thought maybe a car had backfired a short time later i heard the police on a loudspeaker saying come out with your hands up that's a yeah um one here nikki alder she said she was traveling here that's the person we just talked to his traveling companion said they saw the police bring honey from the side yard to the police car when they were bringing him

into the car he looked up at the sky and shouted quote i'll find you again and kill you again what so no remorse he's he i'll you're dead now i'm going to find you up there and re-murder you, is what he's saying. So the exact opposite of remorse. He's angry that she's dead so he can't kill her more. He's not done yet. He's not done yet. That's insane. John Kirk, who lives behind this residence, said, quote, about Honey, quote,

he was saying all kinds of crazy stuff he kept repeating satan made me do it satan made me do it satan made me do it then screaming to the sky that i'll find you and kill you again walk shirtless and covered in blood jimmy this is a horrifying moment what a horrifying scene you think it can't get worse and then three blood covered little children come out of the house and you're like what fucking horror movie am i in this is insanity um kirk here that neighbor said that the murder is sure to really shake up this community it's going to be a little different he said i'm sure everyone in the neighborhood is shocked hell i'm shaking you

see this kind of thing on television all the time. Then all of a sudden, hell, this is real right in your own backyard. You see that on TV? All the channels. I don't think the channel. So what shows are you? I mean, Christ. Now you see that all the time on TV. If anything, not 98, there was no investigation discovery in 98 that just showed constant murder shows.

There's this whole channels dedicated to murder now even yeah yeah but even this scenario is not played out every time this is heavy this is insanity this is absolutely crazy this is not normal at all um this is the first murder in cedar city since 1984 when uh so it's been you know almost 15 years since there's been a murder in this town. It's a decent-sized town. That was when three people were killed by gunfire at the Playhouse, which is a local bar. So that was a fight at a bar. That's way different than someone broke in and slaughtered a woman.

Somebody got hustled. And molested a child. And they're all nuts anyway. That's exactly right. No shit. The one guy here, one of the county people, he said, this has been a bad summer. First barrel where a man killed his wife and son with a shotgun before turning it on himself. What the fuck, man?

And now this. He said, I don't know if this is a bad twist of fate or if Iron County is just joining the rest of the country in violence. Oh, for Christ's sake. Please. But they said he doesn't think the numbers indicate a trend. He said, no, this is not a crime trend. Homicide never is. Homicide is an act of passion or an act of anger.

So, yeah, he says that this is all good. This guy is not like we're not catching these people and they're running around murdering tons of people we got the guy so in his police he did three police interviews honey on the morning of july 10th and um yeah he admitted he argued he admitted he threw the thing in uh then later on he finally in like the third of the interviews, he said, yes, I tried to anally rape her as well. Sure, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Who hasn't?

You know, I mean, Jesus Christ, who doesn't try to do that after you kill your girlfriend's mother? Right. So 1999, about a year goes by and the trial commences. And this is you think it's been crazy. It's about to get way. is it going to come off the rails james this is dude it's just it's it's nuts so 1999 the trial starts the iron county attorney scott burns he said after he said that the the death here ben's death was quote the worst degradation and humiliation of a human body I've ever seen.

Really, that was horrible. It doesn't get much worse than that. He describes to the jury the starting marks on the left side of the neck and how the slashes converged. Everything I described, the cuts in the backbone. Let's see. The medical examiner gets into it in court. Quote, the serrated blade cut Ben's jugular veins, esophagus, her larynx twice and cut into her backbone three times. During this testimony, the jurors had to be excused for a few moments, multiple times to collect themselves.

Yeah. That's a bad sign for you if you're the uh defendant yeah yeah you go no no no sit down it's okay i didn't do this if jurors are crying you're fucked you are deep shit yeah so uh four jurors this is even better four of the jurors became physically ill during the trial because of the disturbing physical evidence, the pictures and everything. They're throwing up and crying and having to leave the room. That's not good, man. Nope.

You are in deep, deep shit. And the death penalty on the table, by the way. Yeah. Oh, man. They can't even sit through the description of what you physically did imagine what they think when they look at you right they can't sit through the physical description of what you did and then we're gonna fuck you were gonna do something worse worse yes you were gonna if you could greater than or worse than.

Greater than or equal to. What are you doing now? This is horrific. You're a monster. They can't even stomach the thought of what aroused you evidently, you fucking weirdo. Oh, my God. And it's not like this isn't a thing where they caught him six months later and he's saying, I don't know what you're talking about. I was over here.

This isn't like OJ saying, I was chipping golf balls, I don't know what you're talking about. I was over here. This isn't like OJ saying, I was chipping golf balls. I don't know what you're talking about. He came out of the house screaming, I did it. I stabbed her. Satan wanted her dead. Satan, Satan, Satan. Then look to the sky and beg for whatever to be able to kill her more. I will find you and kill you again, he said at the sky.

Wow. This is not, they're looking at you knowing what you did so this is just they're just getting madder and madder and madder at you with everything that comes out here um so uh yeah also the medical examiner said the knife wounds were as if this needed to be said definitely not the result of a fall right obviously she fell on eight knives all at once in different areas um she probably dead bled to death very rapidly from the throat cutting also the medical examiner said now the defense attorneys they can't really fight the fact that he killed her there's really what's he gonna do blame one of the four-year-olds that's there like there's not a lot to to do he admitted it was covered in blood too james yeah that's true she could have definitely done it you get a little kid with no pants they're gonna want to kill obviously so

it's ridiculous it's a ridiculous thing to say i didn't do it so instead they try to dispute the because there's the first degree murder then there then it's aggravated by rape charges because he stuck a knife inside of her and then also attempted to rape her in other ways. So their approach is just to try to not get him the death penalty. They're not going to try to say he's innocent of murder. Aligning his wife in prison? Yeah. There's no way to say he didn't do the murder. There's just no way in the world.

Then he made three different statements saying he did it like there's just he's you're fucked neighbors saw him come out screaming toward the heavens like he's got to go this is an open and shut right here yeah you know so he uh uh he said the defense attorneys they instead try to dispute the rape charges by saying you ready for this that claudia ben had to have been alive for a rape to have occurred no what is that well i mean if they if we cut if he cut her throat and she bled out rapidly and she was dead and the medical examiner said they don't know when the wounds came before or after because it was so close. If it happened afterwards, then it's not rape. Then it's just mutilation of a body. That's a totally different thing.

That's not an aggravator for a fucking murder. That's not death penalty. How dare somebody even have that thought? Can you imagine bringing that up? That's the that's the how I don't even dare you. I don't even know what that's like saying to your job you showed up a little bit late and you're like and they're like you're late again and you're like listen listen don't even worry about the lateness it's totally cool because i've been stealing from

the register so that's not negates all of that it negates that right that's cool yeah no but i already was stealing so don't worry about the lateness what the fuck are you talking about 1999 jeffrey don they have already multiple times in court said the man raped a corpse it's it's a thing nope not in this not in utah we have three percent alcohol beer and uh you know rape stops at death, apparently. That's unbelievable. Ballsy. The attorney told jurors that because the knife was found by her head, now this was the, that's what the defense has one thing. Now the prosecution has to come up with a theory as well

to say that that's not true to try to counteract this. So their theory is, is well the knife was found by her head so he probably did the bottom stuff first and then came up to the head and cut her throat and then there's the knife rather than just he just thought too that's a worse thought i'd rather she was dead first but this is like uh either way he could have just dropped the knife as he stood up i mean that's it could be anywhere Who's to say that he didn't do some throat stuff, go downstairs, and then come back to the throat? He could have very easily done that. You know what I mean?

Very easily. Absolutely. So that's the thing. So the only expert to testify regarding whether the mutilation of the genital and anal areas occurred before or after death was the medical examiner. We talked about Maureen Fricky, um, who performed the autopsy.

Uh, she testified she could not determine the sequence of the throat injuries and lower body injuries. And that because she acknowledged she could not quote tell for certain if the victim was alive or dead when the vaginal injuries occurred, there's insufficient evidence to support the aggravating factor of object rape and aggravated sexual assault. You can't put him on that. That's what the defense is saying.

So Dr. Frick's testimony that the stabbing wounds to the victim's anal and vaginal areas could have been caused before she died. In fact, in response to the question, do you know, could the victim have been violated sexually anti-mortem before she died. In fact, in response to the question, do you know, could the victim have been violated sexually anti-mortem before she died, she responded yes because she doesn't know either way. So that's how it works. So now in closing, prosecutors

discuss obviously what a cold-blooded horrible, insane attack this was. Also really brings up the fact that there's three small children in the house for this right they found this three small children they heard this they found this not to mention he fuck he molested his four-year-old niece oh my god that's disgusting this man is a disturbing monster.

They during closing arguments, the county attorney said that he told jurors he, quote, wouldn't apologize for the violent and graphic photographs presented to them as evidence. I'm sorry that made you sick, but I can't apologize that I had to do it. He said that after killing Claudiaia he was planning to follow through on threats um of killing the children as well uh he said that uh you know said that he would kill the mother and kill the two nieces and all that but the guy said this is the attorney but quote by the grace of god and three cedar city police officers it didn't happen so he's saying if we if someone didn't call 9-1-1 because they got there like six minutes in six minutes from the 9-1-1 call so from the time of the slamming he had which i bet that i bet she heard the rock go through the window and then him take the rock

to smash out the rest of the glass i'll bet you're right that's probably what she heard which would make sense in the night that's's a big, loud bang, bang. The frame's going to rattle the whole thing. So if it wasn't for that, he might have killed everybody. Who knows? I mean, he started molesting one of them. God knows what the fuck he would have done. So the defense here, imagine being this guy's lawyer.

Oh, my God. I would hate everything. This is such a long day. You're just like, oh, God, I hate this guy so much. And I have to try to make excuses for this shit. So his lawyer, he tells the 10-woman, two-man jury. That's not good for you either, by the way. This guy's got it all wrong.

Not only is that mountain tall and steep, it's icy, too. It's icy, too. Yeah. It's icy, too. And too and you have like old wrestling shoes like some a6 from 84 and you're like i got nothing i got no grip nothing and you're barehanded in this mountain holy shit i have nothing and my and i'm shirtless and covered in blood so i'm slippery there too so he tells them during closing arguments that yes he committed the crime yes he killed her it's obvious i can't hide

that from you he admitted it for god's sake it's obvious i've tried so many times in my office by myself to try and make this feasible can't do it oh me and my partners we had a chart i had a whiteboard up trust me there was we had arrows going and like pins with strings attached to them it was a real scene but we could not come up with a way that it's physically possible he didn't do that we couldn't straight face pitch that to you i'm so sorry i couldn't i flunked out of acting school i really couldn't do it it's ridiculous so he said you should find him guilty for that yeah you should that's not a thing he said there is no justifications or

excuses that could be offered in his defense for the murder you just there's nothing i can't i have nothing that i can offer you he does say though um that he said that these you know aggravated things you know these quote unquote aggravated things that make him death penalty eligible, he goes that's not, those aren't, you shouldn't find him guilty of those. You should only find him guilty of the murder and all those other things, just not proven.

It's all too murky. We don't know when things happen. You know what, let's just call it a wash and just say murder, done and done. Because of the murder, there's too much blood to really determine what else happened. It's too much blood. When there's this much blood, let's just call it.

Why sort it out? He's willing to admit he did it. Let's just forget about it. So in an end to the show, it was a two-day trial, very standard. They're just trying to make sure the aggravators get get uh you know guilty verdicts here um so he is found guilty of murder and everything like that um but he is found not guilty of the child sexual assault somehow even though he admitted to doing that what the fuck to hurting a four-year-old girl to the point of bleeding.

How? But he, yeah. I don't know how they didn't, I don't know what the fuck happened there, but they didn't find him guilty of that. I don't understand why. So his sentencing comes around, death penalty on the table.

He waives his right to have a jury sentence him, probably because they were throwing up and crying. Good point, yeah. He goes, there was one guy in the room who wasn't throwing up or crying, and that's the judge. The other 12 over here, they didn't seem as resolute as this guy, so I'm picking the judge. They really acted like it was the first time they'd heard or seen any of this shit.

I mean, Jesus Christ, do you know how many people have people have a tv god damn you should be watching the shows i'm watching evidently it's on tv every night so every damn night according to that guy so uh watch tune in so he wants the judge to which this is one of those things if you don't want an emotional response you want the judge to do it but and oftentimes the way you get uh life instead of the death penalty is by eliciting an emotional response from the jury with your tales of begging and your mitigation and all that sort of thing judge judges that shit is they're looking at it very legal they're looking at your aggravators and your mitigators as a scale, which is higher.

Whereas the jury can be like, but his little daughter was so cute. I can't have her not have a father. You know, like one juror will think that maybe I've never seen a judge smile unless it was like Judge Judy or Brown or Wapner on TV. You know what I mean? You're not getting any sort of human response that's emotional out of a judge unless they are furious. That's the only one. Really? Yeah. Unless you wore a leather coat to his courtroom in Alabama.

Then you're in contempt, buddy. Tell him, Mr. Munster. The whole store had the flu. You get that? Are you making a mockery out of my courtroom? What is that? There's only one place in this town you could buy a suit. You could buy a new suit.

For you. I wore this ridiculous thing for you. Are you mocking me? No. No, Judge, I'm not mocking you. No, Jesus. I don't like your attitude. I'm going to hold you in contempt of court.

That's a fucking surprise. What was that? What happened? He's like, what did I say? What did I say? All right. Now that we've done an entire scene for my cousin Vinny. He's so good.

It's such a great fucking movie. he's so good it's such a great fucking movie so um yeah anyway uh during sentencing um here uh claudia's cousin because now we're going to get family members testifying she says quote she did things on her own to let the piutes know of an alternative way of life to alcohol and drugs she was a person trying to make a difference. She says that Ben was like her big sister. She said, throughout my life, she's been there with me. She said that Ben could have stayed or gone to work in Arizona as a substance abuse counselor, but wanted, she took a lower paying position to come back to be with her family. And she wanted to help her own people, she said, too. She said, quote, it hurts so much.

We miss her so much. She isn't here for us anymore. She was somebody that we tried to be like. So Ben's grandchildren, by the way, because Ben's mother is going to testify. She's alive and testifying. She's alive and testifying. She says that they say that the kids are all less than five years old. They act differently since seeing their grandmother's bloody mutilated body.

Weird. Isn't that strange? A four-year-old would see their grandmother butchered and not be the same. Right. Strange. Changes their biology a little bit? A little bit, that's i think that's the plot of dexter i mean what the fuck are we talking about jesus christ she said the four-year-old granddaughter prays at night that honi will stay in jail and that he quote won't come to get her this is the one he molested

killed her grandmother i mean he he just completely decimated her whole world. This is horrible. What a piece of shit. This kid should be able to fucking kill him. That should be the death penalty. This kid gets to do it, I think, if she wants to. So they also testified that the child gets scared when someone comes to the door and is scared of the dark. Now, she said, quote, it changed her.

Jesus, man. The defense, though, they're going to try to save him, and they're going to bring in a shrink. They got a psychologist to talk to him, have an extensive examination of Honey, and her whole thing is she comes up with the evaluation that she feels he's unlikely to commit violent acts in prison which i would probably agree i think he goes after women i think he's a pussy probably more than likely he's never had any other interactions and probably his nerve is heightened and um uh brazenness is heightened with alcohol which is not necessarily given out in prison that's the

other thing too is she says any act of violence he's had on record in the past is when he's been highly intoxicated. She talks about his childhood's, quote, spent in poverty on the Hopi reservation in Arizona and how he, quote, didn't feel loved. Same, pal. I mean. So you had to stab a woman in the vagina and then molest a four year old. That makes sense. Never did that. Oh, geez. you, pal. I mean, so you had to stab a woman in the vagina and then molest a four year old. That makes sense.

Never did that. Oh, geez. Oh, wow. I don't even I'm blown away by that. She told of him losing three clan grandmas at the vulnerable age of 12. And she said that this was traumatic for a child who felt unattached to his family. She said he always had a sense that when his parents left they wouldn't come back oh that's wild she also said that he suffers from anxiety and depression um i mean she said yeah come on man yeah i mean you if you

dude if you killed somebody in a bar fight or something you could say like i was going off the deep end i had a lot of problems if you fucking you had a bar fight or something, you could say, like, I was going off the deep end. I had a lot of problems. If you fucking, you had a cab ride where you could have changed your mind. You had hours. You targeted and butchered a woman. Yeah. And then molested a kid. There's no excuse for any of this shit.

There's just none. There's very little mitigating that you can do to this. Yeah. She also discussed a psychologist that in junior high school, a teacher tried to sodomize him. And so, you know, so he can kill people now, apparently. Right. You have license to kill people now. Right.

Isn't that true? By every death, everything he's using to defend himself. Fucking I should be. I don't have a body count longer than you're totally allowed dude yeah apparently insane apparently according to this um this is ridiculous i have such a pass fuck uh the psychologist also said honi told her that he quote wished he didn't remember what happened the night he murdered her he really does he wished he doesn't even remember it he admitted exist yeah no shit he admitted

he needs eternal sunshine of the scumbag mind right here reprogram that shit he admitted to sexually assaulting his four-year-old niece by fondling her as well to the psychologist a jury had found him not guilty of the sexual abuse charge by the way that was the exact charge that is unbelievable fucking wild also she said that all of honey's violent episodes including the murder were the result of being provoked fearing separation and being intoxicated so you know if you provoke this intoxicated man and he feels like someone's gonna leave him he'll kill you well good well let's put him away then i think that's a good thing for it she also said he was Provoke this intoxicated man and he feels like someone's going to leave him. He'll kill you. Well, good. Well, let's put him away then.

I think that's a good thing for it. She also said he was ashamed for the incident involving his niece, which he called reprehensible. He's I don't know what I was thinking there. You know, the murder and the stabbing and the you know, that was fine. But this this is above and above the fuck, man. I don't even know man this is beyond the pale here so he said uh the also went on to say that uh uh the county attorney comes in and challenges a lot of these conclusions um and asked whether she believes he's remorseful and the psychologist said she quote didn't know what to make of his perceived lack of reaction because he seems like he's got a very flat affect over the whole thing.

He doesn't really react emotionally to, like, the charges, to his descriptions of shit. He's just very matter of fact about the whole thing. Like, yeah, I shouldn't have done that, I guess. The prosecutor also questioned whether he was that poor growing up because, as he put it, this is a man. This prosecutor is a man now this prosecutor is a way till you hear what he says he's a fucking jackass but he said that um how can you say he was poor growing up his house had a satellite dish and numerous reservation children enjoyed spending time at the house so how can you say he's poor he had tv and kids liked his house so not poor the the response

from the psychologist was quote sometimes the cobbler's children don't have shoes what i don't know did his father make satellite dishes is that what he did did he sit there with like a hammer and bang out a satellite dish and uh i don't understand that one i guess he's trying to say like sometimes sometimes the chef's kids go hungry is that is that the point i don't i think that's the point they're making but he has a satellite dish so he's not that's not i don't know whatever he could have still been poor i mean maybe he knew a guy with a satellite dish we were poor mike we had cable tv it's because my stepfather was a fat, lazy fuck that never left the couch, and he had to be entertained one way or another.

Well, I remember my dad always had all the HBO and shit growing up because he had a friend who worked for the cable company who would turn the fucking, he'd just come to the box thing and turn it on, and that's it. That's why we always had it. Not because he paid for it or because, you know, could afford it. It was just- He paid $39.99, whatever the basic basic cable was but we had all the premium shit have you'd always know somebody you know in new york there's always we always know somebody

especially with us 20 bucks is 20 bucks yeah that's what i mean you know he's know a guy who knows a guy you know you can get your car and those tents are fine just come in with the windows rolled down don't worry about it like there's always that guy. So I know this from experience. So the family here now testifies, Honey's family, his mother, Teresita Honey, and his aunt, Delarita Leslie. He lived with both of them for more than a year as a teenager. And they testified that they couldn't believe he committed the acts described at the trial. Leslie, the aunt, told jurors that Honey writes letters to his cousins telling them about the harmful effects of alcohol and drugs right now. Yeah, that's so now he's but he's good now.

Now the letters she referred to Honey as her son and asked that he be allowed to stay around then she requested the judge allow her to hug my son a last time um so a recess was taken and she was allowed to go in a room and hug him they took him into a room where she hugged him and then they went back in the room and resumed court i hope he had his handcuffs on so that would be i hope so too he shouldn't be allowed to hug she wants to hug him make her feel better fine but you don't get to hug motherfucker that feels good yeah you're not getting that warm feeling of hugging her somebody no can't have it another one of his aunts claudia james um she addressed the ben family who was there claudia's family there's about 30 friends and family members in the courtroom supporting the Ben family who was there, Claudia's family. There was about 30 friends and family members in the courtroom supporting the

Ben family because, you know, she was well loved in the area. Um, she said to that family, your scars will never, uh, will never heal,

heal. Then asked that Honey not be put to death though. She said, murder is murder, whether it's the judicial system or a malicious act from the bottom of my heart i'm sorry so uh also um the his father came out uh honi's father and said that consider what life would be to a father or to a daughter without a father he's got a daughter okay wouldn't you want that daughter to be around this guy

who molests four-year-olds and stabs his mother-in-law? That's a great role model that she needs to grow up with. And then said it doesn't seem to fit for the state to execute the father of a girl who just lost her grandmother. She just lost her, like she fell off a fucking roof or something. He killed her. that's the reason why she's gone this girl is entitled to have a father to visit with is what she said is what the dad said then uh the dad said that his son should be spared so quote he can show everybody that he

can change no too late don't care anymore about his changes i just don't care i'm not uh concerned with what he's capable of later i know what he's capable of now and that's too much we have seen his peak this is he's peaked this is what he's got he can't keep a job at a sand and gravel place who gives a fuck what else he can do that's what i mean he can't keep from not killing people as well so no his mother said her son since he's been arrested has grown up overnight now he's a he's a mature he was just a kid before she also said she prays for ben's family in both the traditional hopi way and quote the white man's way she prays both just in case you never know you gotta hedge your bets.

You don't know who's right here. She said, I will never believe he did some of the things they said he did. Well, guess what, honey? You can believe it because it's in a fucking medical examiner's report. It's been 25 years. I hope you can believe it now. Yeah, you can pray to whatever the fuck you want. It happened. So she said, nobody will ever convince me wow i'd love to try

i would love please i know this woman's hurting her son's in jail i feel bad for her because she didn't kill anybody but i'll sit you down and convince you i really will the medical exam the pictures didn't convince you what's gonna convince you the four-year-old came in and stabbed her really how did kodak not convince you, lady? That's what I mean. You see jurors puking? That's convincing. Convincing enough.

She said, I raised him to know right from wrong. And then she started crying and said, please spare my son. Then they brought Carolyn, who was Ben's daughter, his ex-girlfriend. You'd think she would want to kill him herself. Ben's daughter, his ex-girlfriend, you'd think she would want to kill him herself. She said that she would be satisfied if he was sentenced to life without parole and that she'd rather he not be killed because they have a daughter together. She is the most forgiving woman on the planet. That, Carol.

This family, from everything they say, too, for this family is some really good, nice people, it sounds like like they're there. They just seem like very together people who have gone through a horrible tragedy and have kept kept who they are about them. I don't know how to describe it, but they seem like just people that I feel for them. That's all. I really served a three month stretch for beating her. And then he murdered her mom and molested her niece. And she is willing to say you don't have to kill him. She is a sweetheart of a woman. That's what I mean. She's a saint, this lady. So the prosecutor, on the other hand, he argued that the death penalty is the appropriate punishment for the crime, rejected the claims, the mitigating factors, such as poverty and substance abuse committing to the crime.

He says, quote, it's not like he never had a chance. He's had lots of chances. Indeed. He talked about the brutalization, as what he called it, of what he did to both Claudia and the granddaughters who saw it and the niece who he touched. He said they were covered in blood when a police officer with his gun drawn carried them from the home following the murder. They came out to a gun drawn on them because he just heard movement.

The police officer in a bloody scene. So I said, when you're searching around somebody hiding and injured. So these kids have had so many traumas. It's not even funny trauma infinite fucking trauma um they uh he also stressed the importance of uh you know as ben's role as a substance abuse counselor and how in the community she was very important then he says one of the craziest things a prosecutor's probably ever said in a court of law. This isn't keep in mind this.

This is set in 1999, not 1929, not 1889. This is crazy that this is set in court. I'm going to give you the whole end of his speech here. You tell me the crazy parts because they're right in the middle he said the victim and the impact of the crime on the victim's family and community without comparison or without comparison to other persons or victims ah he did not murder a drunken indian in the park in Cedar City. The look on Jimmy's face just now, his eyes just went, what? You can't say that. He did not murder a drunken Indian in the park in Cedar City.

He did not murder a woman who had spent her life drinking alcohol and puking and walking the streets and shoplifting at Walmart. What? Oh, my God. He didn't murder the people that deserve it. Like those other engines out there. You know the dirty Indians I'm talking about? You see them wandering around just puking and drinking and stealing from the Walmart.

You know what I'm talking about. Oh, shit. He said that in court. Oh, God. That that i don't know this is the craziest fucking thing i've ever heard keep going yes he did he didn't stop and go oh shit i should retire for good now because that's crazy he literally said that he said he murdered someone that these people look up to. You know what I mean. These people. My God, man.

You know, all the drunken, puking, Walmart shoplifting. They all look up to her. This is insanity. This is fucking insane. He wrote this down and then said, perfect. To a court full of people. Most of them natives, by the way. Most of them a Native American family distressed over their loss of their loved one, mind you.

Shoplifting and puking and walking the streets. He murdered someone that these people look up to. These people. the streets he murdered someone that these people look up to the what these people you know the people i see as i drive down the street to this courthouse and look down upon aforementioned dirty indians that i just said the puking walmart stealing wow he murdered a superstar in the piute community and much like Mr. Husava that worked hard to get his bachelor's degree in two year substance degree and return to the people, she returned to her people and the law, not emotion.

The law allows for you to take into account who the victim was. And Claudia Ben was a great person in our community and a great person in the piute and the piute community is it common for them to for people on on the reservation to like bash people like that this is wild this is that was wild man that was breathtaking this isn't a tribal court either where it's like you know internal this is a white guy in fucking regular court being like this fucking drunken indian this is crazy did people just sit there with their mouths open going what pretty much that's how much of a slam dunk this case is this guy can just throttle out stereotypes.

Just off-the-cuff racial insults. Just letting them fly like, I don't even care. They can fucking strike that one. They'll still give him the death. I don't give a shit. So this is wild shit. Now, mind you, this is all to the judge too so this uh so the judge apparently um he was found by the jurors guilty of five of six of the aggravators which are object rape forcible sodomy aggravated sexual assault

burglary and aggravated burglary how many do you need one you need at least one yeah and then they weigh that against mitigators so the the more aggravators, the better for the prosecution because that'll outweigh the mitigator. So he was found not guilty of the aggravator of sexual abuse of a child. That's the one he was found not guilty of. Now they ask him, dipshit, you got any statements to make? Yeah. And he says, here we go. Here's his speech.

It's a long one. I'll give you the whole thing. Not once did he say, did that prosecutor just call us all drunken Indians? I think, did he just say that shit for real? The judge will actually address it, though, in his final thing. He'll not address it directly, but he'll definitely, what he says is in reference to what the prosecutor said. Like, to put it on the record that that's not why we're doing any of this. He didn't say something like, I can't believe I just had to listen to that shit.

Hey, dumb fuck, did you just say that? That would have been the greatest. Pardon me, did you just say what I think you just said? Did you just say like a drunken, puking, walking the streets, Walmart shoplifting, filthy, what the hell are you talking about? Are you robbing me and just read what's on the teleprompter? What is happening?

Dude, what is your deal? He said, quote, please don't think that I don't have any remorse or sympathy if I don't cry or show how I really feel. It's just that I was taught by tradition that if you are a male, you don't openly cry. During the past couple of days, there's not one moment that went by that I didn't feel like throwing myself on my knees and begging for forgiveness from everyone I hurt. I wish I could go back in time and change a lot of the things, mainly what has happened, but I cannot. What else would you want to change? Mainly what's happened is the bad part.

I'm truly, deeply, very sorry for killing Claudia Ben and taking her out of all of your lives. I regret that I have no excuse for my actions. My heart is sad. My soul cries out when I think of what I've done. If I could change at all, I would. Believe me, I would. You all hate me, and I understand. I gave you all reason to. I'd ask you for forgiveness, but right now, all I ask is please don't let the anger and hate you have for me eat you up so much that you're incapable of running your lives. and hate you have for me eat you up so much that you're incapable of running your lives. I'm sure you want me dead. Maybe you'll get your wish. Whatever I get, I deserve. Whatever it is, it will not be as bad as what I'll have to carry with me until the day I die. Cain is the name God knows me by now. Of this, I am ashamed. Please, Lord, forgive me. I'll pay for what I've done in this world and the next.

Keep in mind that not only am I going to pay for killing Ben, but I also want to pay for what I did because I have to. I sentenced my daughter and her cousins to grow up with horrible memories I put in their minds. I just hope as they are growing up, they'll be able to forget them. I hope and pray they do. Mom, Dad, Rita, Maude, I'm sorry I had to drag you all through this. Thank you for not turning your back on me. I love you all very much. To the Paiute community, or Paiute tribe, my apologies for taking the life of an important person to you all. I pray one day you will all forgive me.

If not, I understand. Oh, my. So the sentencing judge specifically says, quote, the court's decision is the same on sentencing. Whether the victim had been a, quote, drunken Indian in the park or a drunken white man in the park or a sober doctor in his office. So he definitely addressed it. Listen, that way we, you can't just say she's good and not some drunken Indian.

Cause even if it was that fine, we'd still be sentencing him the same way. I can't believe you said that in my courtroom, you dick. That's then he said, it's the, this is the most difficult decision i've had to reach he tells the court he said it's not a sentence that i'm giving to the defendant he's earned it oh you sir

may fuck off death penalty for mr honey here what a way to say that he's earned it yeah that's saying it he i'm not giving it to him yeah i'm just giving him his just dessert that's all despite the that bullshit the prosecutor just rambled he still learned to this as you say that you know he was looking at the prosecutor whether it was this or that or a sober doctor in his office, dipshit. Good God, you went to law school? No shit. I'm going to hold you in contempt of court. I wish you'd have been wearing some ridiculous thing to tell me that. I would have been amazed.

This ridiculous thing for you. For you. For you. So he said, if this isn't a death penalty case i don't know what is he then um obviously there's an automatic repeal appeal i mean from that and the judge said that he quote welcomed the appeal and the review of the case but hopes it's never remanded back to trial uh pony turned to the 30 or so ben supporters and mouthed you got it to them like there you go you got what you wanted which is a prick prick shit way to do it too uh then he uh

he told his own family he mouthed sorry as he left the courtroom sorry sorry you had to all get dressed up and come here whoops one of his aunts responded as he walked away by telling him, quote, I hope you enjoy your fun. That's what he said to the county attorney. As the county attorney walked out, she said that. I hope you enjoy your fun. family members uh filed out and uh she said that uh um the the pony's aunt said that she hoped that the bends could quote live with their consciences over this what what how about your conscience that your nephew killed this lady you don't seem to be bringing that up very much what did you what did they they want him in jail for forever and not is that what they wanted no

they were fine with the death penalty and the his aunts like i hope you can live with your consciences now knowing that you pushed for the death penalty and he's gonna die and they're like whatever i mean what do you want yeah like they don't care So this is one of those cases where this is kind of like the case that you would put as far as, like, we've said this many times, neither of us love the death penalty. It's tough to go down, yeah. For the reasons of they find people innocent all the time. Far too much. They figure out that this person didn't do it. It's not 100% accurate.

If it's not 100% accurate, you can't really do it because there's always a hundred percent accurate it's if it's not a hundred percent accurate you can't really you can't really do it because there's always a chance of fucking up this is the case that people would use as an example of what if yeah okay what if the guy literally runs out of the house head to toe in blood saying he did it screaming toward the sky that he wants to kill her again if he could get his hands on her, goes to the police station, describes everything he fucking did. It's all backed up with physical evidence. Everyone saw it. His fingerprints are everywhere.

DNA. He tried to rape her. He stabbed her and fucking molested a child on the way out. What if there's all of that? People go, well, can I just hit him with my car? How's that? Maybe the state doesn't do it, but we need to kill this fucking guy. Can I pay a cellmate to put a pillow over his face at three in the morning like that's we want this

guy you want to kill this guy you know what i mean but there's no redemption for that no there's no thing there's no he's he'll serve a purpose there's no purpose for that guy and we don't like him i just say maybe we get maybe me and jim Jimmy come up with a creative way to just do it ourselves and get the state out of this whole thing. And we'll I don't know, because I don't like the way the state does shit, obviously. So the his defense attorney said that, quote, the brutality of the crime was probably the main reason why he got the death penalty. You think that's usually think so? What are you saying man that's what i'm saying bro like this is crazy so 2002 is his appeal her his whole case is she was dead when i tried to rape her what are we talking about okay that's his so that's don't use that as an aggravator to kill

me i don't what a wild stance he said the jury lacked sufficient evidence to conclude he was guilty of aggravated murder specifically the state failed to offer sufficient expert testimony that the sexual aggravating factors of object rape forcible sodomy and aggravated sexual assault occurred before the victim expired the state counters that regardless of whether the evidence is sufficient regarding the sexual aggravating factors, the conviction may be affirmed based on the uncontested aggravating factors, particularly the burglary and aggravated burglary factors. The state also argues that whether the victim was alive when he committed the sexually aggravating

factors is irrelevant. Now, he claims that there's, like I said, a lack of sufficiency of the aggravating factors is irrelevant. Now, he claims that there's, like I said, the lack of sufficiency of the aggravating factors. So, wow, that's wild, by the way. That is brave to say out loud. God damn it. Yeah, that is interesting. Let's just say that. No proof it was still alive. So, say that no proof they were still it was still alive um so the justices here um said there's nothing in utah's sexual assault law laws that requires the victim to be alive at the time right so they don't have to be alive that's not that's too much so um yeah they the guy who handled the appeal said the uh in the end they said no doesn't work. So they said this opinion will make it easier to get convictions against aggravated murder suspects because they can't say I raped him after they were dead anymore.

Good. So, yeah, the state contends that he intentionally or knowingly caused the death of Claudia Ben while engaging in the commission of or attempt to commit or flight after committing or attempting to commit rape, object rape, forcible sodomy, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual assault, aggravated burglary, or burglary. Thus, the state was required to put forth sufficient evidence to support the conclusion that one, he killed the victim, two, he did so intentionally or knowingly, and three, his conduct also falls within the following the description we just mentioned the evidence is not so inconclusive or inherently

improbable that reasonable minds must have entertained a reasonable doubt that the defendant satisfied these elements so obviously uh threat to kill the mother and the children his confession to police officers that he killed her by stabbing her with a knife, without a doubt, was support for all of that shit. So the state also presented evidence establishing that six minutes elapsed between the 911 call and the arrival of police. During the time he attacked the victim, severely bit her, beat her, bit her. Don't forget he bit her hard as well. severely bit her, beat her, bit her. Don't forget he bit her hard as well.

Bit her, slit her throat four times, vaginally raped her numerous times with a knife and attempted to commit forcible sodomy on her. The victim could not, the victim could have lost consciousness within 30 seconds of the infliction of the throat wounds and died within a minute. So the state could not definitively state whether the sexual mutilation occurred before or after death, although she testified there was definitely blood pressure present when the wounds were inflicted, which supports the determination that it was probably before or shortly after she died.

Regardless of the precise time of the death, the genital injuries were inflicted by the defendant as part of a single continuous assault that resulted in her death. He didn't come back. Time left over to molest a child. Time left over to go molest. Think about it. The cop showed up. That's what he was doing. So fast.

He murdered her that much. And within a minute, he was like, well, better go molest a kid. And then went in there and did that. He didn't sit there. Yeah. I don't even know what to say there. there yeah that's i don't even know what to say there um so he also in this appeal uh he says that uh his race played an outcome in the case as well um now the court does agree that the comments the prosecutor made were quote demeaning offensive and clearly improper obviously that was the dumbest

thing ever said in court yeah in open court but there they said there was no indication and actually an opposite indication that it affected the judge in any way the judge actually refuted those remarks yeah and said don't care who it was dummy that was a stupid thing to say so uh yeah they said that the uh he just keeps claiming aggravated factors are unsupported and um so the that appeal goes nowhere they said yes but it didn't affect the outcome of the case so 2005 he appeals again and uh this one is on 68 separate claims for post-conviction reliefs relief mainly the drunken Indian incident. That's the main problem here.

You can't say that. No, absolutely not. And I'm only quoting the prosecutor because I don't know how else to say it. So, they said, I like the way the court puts it. These comments could reasonably be inferred as pejorative of persons of Native American descent, comments that are demeaning, offensive and clearly improper. That said, an imposing sentence. The sentencing judge did not consider these comments or defendants ethnicity as a factor. While not objected to by the defense, the court notes that such a comparison is impermissible under the statute and case law and was not undertaken by the court in reaching its decision.

That's when he said it would have been the same if the victim had been a drunken Indian in the park or a drunken white man in the park or a sober doctor in his office. Each human life is of equal value. Said no matter what the victim's status, it would have been just as painful, traumatic, reprehensible, and would require the same punishment. They said the sentencing judge's handling of the matter, combined with the facts of the case, convinced the court that his sentence was not imposed of an over-the-top fashion here against a particular group of people first the language of the prosecutor references the ethnicity of the victim not the ethnicity of the defendant they're insulting the victim not the defendant wow we're pissing on a grave not a future one wow it does not demonstrate discrimination by the sentencing judge while the statement

complained about by the defendant reflects the prosecutor's insensitivity it does not demonstrate discrimination by the sentencing judge. While the statement complained about by the defendant reflects the prosecutor's insensitivity, it does not evidence that the trial judge discriminated against members of the Hopi tribe in sentencing the defendant. Second, even if the prosecutor's statement is read as implying that the defendant's ethnicity should be considered an imposing sentence, the trial judge clearly explained that death was imposed without giving any weight to that whatsoever. The sentence was imposed because of his actions and, in this case, satisfy the elements of aggravated murder,

a crime for which death is sentencing is an alternative, so fuck off. Now, mitigating aggravating circumstances here, he's trying to say that there was so many mitigators that they really they overlooked them they overlooked everything i mean he's only 22 yeah which isn't young no you're 22 sorry you're in the prime of your life there's guys in the i've been in the

nba for four years already when you're 22 the fuck out of here they have max contracts at that age there's a little more pressure on lebron sir yeah a little bit so uh they said that his use of the yeah all this shit he states that his alleged mental disease intoxication or drug impairment impairment did not unduly affect his ability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his actions is what the court's saying here they said the trial court clearly considered but gave short shrift to the defendant's youth and other factors such as his remorse and alleged childhood victimization consequently given the apparent weight assigned by the trial judge of these remaining factors any error in concluding that blah blah blah so fuck you keep keep on keeping on bitch so uh by the way utah aggravated murder is defined as um these are

these these are the uh the way it works murder was committed by a person who's confined in jail or other correctional institutions so if you kill someone in jail that's immediately aggravated murder didn't know that committed uh incident to one act scheme or course or conduct of a criminal episode so bank robbery or you know some some some like a racketeer type of thing. If you kill a truck driver, if you're stealing a truck for a mob boss. The murder knowingly created a great risk of death to a person other than the victim and the murderer. The murder was committed incident to an act, scheme, or course of criminal conduct in which the murderer committed to attempt aggravated robbery.

This is the one that we read off to you. The murder was committed incident to one act, scheme, or course of conduct or criminal episode during which the murderer committed the crime of the abuse or desecration of a human body. So that's an aggravator anyway. That's the other thing. It doesn't matter.

Even if she was dead, then you reclassify it then as fucking aggravator number five instead of aggravator number four. Who gives a shit? You're going away. So committed for the purpose of avoiding or preventing arrest. Murder was committed for money. Murder committed or engaged and employed to another person. So you were hired for it or you hired someone else for it.

The murderer previously committed or was convicted of aggravated murder. So that's like you're a double winner. I'm a double winner. That's a Patreon thing. Previously convicted of specified felonies such as child rape in the purpose of committing a purpose of preventing a witness from testifying, retaliating against witnesses for testifying. If the victim was a local, state or federal public official candidate for public office, the victim has been a peace officer, law enforcement officer, all that kind of shit. Also, if the homicide was committed by means of a destructive device, a bomb, an explosive incendiary device, similar device which was planted, hidden or concealed in any place, area, dwelling, building or structure or was mailed. Wow.

So anyway, there's a few more here, but we won't. One is if the person was held or otherwise detained as a shield or hostage for ransom. They get very specific. If the murderer dismembers, mutilates or disfigures the victim's body, whether before or after death, in a manner demonstrating the murderer's depravity of mind. OK, that's a vague one. I like that one a lot. It's very vague. Yeah. There's just a fuck who likes to that one.

Cut organs out. Right. Throw them in the air. That one exists here as well. I think covers a lot. Yeah, if you're just a sick fuck who likes to cut organs out and throw them in the air. That one exists here as well, I think. Yeah, yeah. Certainly. Now, up until 2015, for a while there, in Utah, they were doing lethal injection. Now, Utah's famous for having the firing squad come back when it came back in, but then they got rid of it, and then they had lethal injection. But in 2015, the firing squad was brought back.

So you now had a choice of how you wanted to die. You can opt into that shit. By the way, he chooses the firing squad. Awesome. That's what Honey chooses to go down. I'm going firing squad. I like it. So we covered this in an old Patreon episode, That's what Honey chooses to go down. I'm going firing squad. I like it.

So we covered this in an old Patreon episode, but just for anyone who didn't hear that, let's go over quick what the firing squad actually does. Standard in many states, this says, two rounds must be loaded into each weapon with one weapon shooting blanks. So rather than only one guy with a bullet, everyone has a bullet except for one of them. Oh my God. shooting blanks so rather than only one guy with a bullet everyone has a bullet except for one of them oh my god this is rather that's less that's almost like i'm 90 sure that i definitely shot the guy rather than i'm only 10 thinking i might have shot the guy how many guys are they lining up 10 uh with one it says much a target must be but it doesn't't say. Oh, my God. I guess a bunch.

Just one guy has blanks. Yeah. A target should be placed over the heart of the one being executed. Well, that just makes it almost like a pinata exercise, like a birthday party. This is unbelievable, Utah. There are countdowns and waiting periods, and the last words are supposed to be recorded via audio, then destroyed within 24 hours of the execution. Why? One can't help but think if information like that were made more public, fewer people would be able to stomach the horror of the death penalty, as this person said in their article.

Some people, some believe firing squads are more humane as lethal injection has been scrutinized during the due to the high prevalence of botched executions. In that episode, too, we talked about percentages of botched executions for each method. Others argue that firing squads disallow us to be detached from the real matter at hand, the taking of human life. For this reason, some death penalty abolitionists see firing squads as the easiest way of changing public opinion i don't think so i think people will go cool people are fucking nuts in this country it's fucking wild man um but it's not they're saying it's not a medical procedure lethal injection looks like a medical procedure they're gonna this this looks dirty right it's a guy sitting out there getting shot that shit's but it's the the uh uh firing squad's the least botched right it's the least botched yeah because it's a bunch of guys who know how to shoot aiming fucking rifle shots rounds in your heart so heart it's gonna work

it's definitely gonna work um so the there was a bill proposed to eliminate the firing squad as an option in utah in 96 in 2004 the legislature uh removed that as an option to choose the firing squad and it wasn't retroactive so three inmates that were on death row uh were grandfathered in if they wanted to picked it wanted to keep it uh the most recent one was on in 2010 ron Lee Gardner, who we've talked about, 49 years old, was the state's third execution by firing squad since they came back in the 70s. And this is post 9-11. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 2015 signed a law restoring the firing squad as a legal method of execution

requiring its use if the state is unable to obtain the necessary lethal injection drugs within 30 days of an execution. They're making it as a backup. Oklahoma did the same thing. Are you serious? Absolutely, because they can't get these drugs anymore. So, Oklahoma

has it set as a backup too. We can't get the drugs. We'll just take them outside and shoot them oh my god it's fucking interesting utah and nevada are the only states to have ever actually used the firing squad is that right only two now 2008 he is uh in court again and a judge a u.s district court judge julie rob Julie Robinson, cut through Honey's request to consider additional evidence in his death penalty appeals, siding with the state, said the court will now proceed to consider and rule on the petition. And basically it goes back into a petition for habeas corpus is one of the few remaining claims. And it's going to take years to litigate that out. So maybe by 2025, they'll have this all settled.

There's currently seven people on Utah's death row. Looks like here. Lethal injection for one. Lethal injection. We got firing squad for Honey. What do we got here? It doesn't say what he is. He stabbed an inmate 67 times.

This one guy oh that's that asshole troy kell that's troy that's that oh that guy's a fucking documentary yeah he's a monster he's in well he's he's in utah yeah he uh well he's got the death penalty so there you go he's been on death row for 25 years and 140 days yeah uh tabarone here honi's been on death row for 22 years 220 days they have a guy on there for 33 years they have one on for 35 years jesus christ firing squad so we got a it was like a couple of uh lethal and a couple of firings uh troy doesn't say what seems like a guy that would oh firing squad yeah firing squad absolutely well it seems like if you're trying to be like cool and tough, you just put me in the firing squad.

Make a show of it. Yeah, that's that kind of dick. He's an asshole. Yeah, he's a fucking douchebag. That's the guy killing people screaming white power. Right. Like a fucking lunatic. Idiot.

On that HBO documentary. So if you want to write old Honey a letter here here maybe if you want to do a prisoner dating game we have for you the address of him at this moment tabaron dave honie number one three four eight seven seven utah state prison unit a p.o box 250 draper utah 84020 just in case you have to write to this guy and, you know, just tell him, um, what a wonderful human being he is, or that he's a terrible person.

He sucks really badly and that we hate his fucking guts. Either way, not that my friends to you and repeat those words to Troy too. Yeah, exactly. Hey, tell Troy he sucks. Would you?

So that everybody is Cedar city, Utah. Wow. And one hell of a crazy shit case that was, man. Really, really crazy. That was, I don't even know what to make of that. That is just wild. What a.

And the ante upped by the prosecutor to make it even more nuts to say. That was, yeah. You didn't have to say it. We all knew. Why would you say that? We you didn't have to say it we all why would you say that we all knew enough about him you didn't have to inflame the situation well you could say she was a nice person who helped people and you don't have to say she wasn't you know what you like they know the jury knows the judge knows who she was you don't have to say that he just needed to say like racist shit for some

reason i don't know why about people that have nothing to do with this. Yeah, that's the other thing. It was very weird, man. So what a strange case. God damn. This case was crazy. And then next week, holy shit, is next week's fucking bonkers. I mean, next week's involved an old Unsolved Mysteries.

Oprah was involved. It's crazy, crazy shit. And you've never heard of the case, too. That's how crazy it is. It's going to be so much fun. And even, I think, a Seinfeld episode referenced this as well, I believe, this case. But it's so under the radar. You'll find out next week.

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on anything we're doing, live show stuff, stuff from the show, releases of the show, everything like that. And in the new year, everybody, we have some amazing surprises for you in the new year, everybody, we have some amazing surprises for you in the new year, including even more small town murder. You're going to get more murder, everybody, in the coming year. You're going to get more murder. So that's very, very exciting.

We'll explain all that to you in a little bit of time, but don't worry. It's there. Get excited. Big news! It's coming up in the next month, though, whenever we can announce it. So we're very excited. More murder for everyone everyone so it's going to be excellent we can't wait uh for that speaking of more murder patreon.com slash crime and sports i say more murder because we fucking kill on patreon what i mean is our episodes are funny as shit yeah they're funny yeah you want funny stuff god damn it you're not

going to get any funnier than our patreon episodes people all i see people posting about it all the time like why did i wait this long i'm crying with these episodes they're ridiculous because a little bit looser with the structure we can do episodes kind of outside of the normal subject matter so we can do lots of crazy shit anybody who's five dollars or above gets access to every damn thing that we put out patreon wise right now there's a whole back catalog there over a hundred episodes you can get caught up on everything ties a nice bingeable amount of episodes there you can get into that and every two weeks we are going to release two new episodes always every other week it'll be one crime and sports and one small town murder.

You'll get them both. And even if you don't like crime and sports and aren't interested in sports, they're never like about an athlete doing crimes. They're always some weird thing. Trust us. You'll like it. You'll like it all. Believe me.

The crime and sports people like the small town murder bonuses and vice versa. They all like each other's bonuses. So check all that out. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And in addition to all that wonderful stuff, you're also going to get a shout out. Oh, you bet. Fuck yes, because we really do appreciate you so much. And to show you that and show you our undying love, Jimmy will mispronounce your name horribly while trying as hard as he can to pronounce it correctly.

So that'll be a lot of fun. You can also get a shout-out over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsportsatgmail.com. Thank you so much to everyone who's done that. And as a matter of fact, let's thank them by thanking them right now. Jimmy, please, please hit me with the list of people that you would never impugn their entire race in front of a courtroom full of people. Please hit me with them, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Kevin Hoyt, all in Portland. Alicia Johnson, Goodwin and Gabe.

Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Jen Visconti. Nilou Raphsanjani's around still. Hello. She's in San Francisco. She's got to be doing well. She's great.

She was going to move from there. I don't know if she did. Also, Jordan Bennett suffering in cold fucking Canada. Jennifer Schaefer. Michaela Jarrett, I think. Nolan Betterman. Like Ice-T would say it, I guess. Betterman.

Betterman. Betterman. Detective Betterman. Corporal Carl Kirchner. The real one died. Did you see that? No, I didn man. Corporal Carl Kirchner. Hey. The real one died. Did you see that? Corporal Carl. No, I didn't.

Corporal Kirchner died? Yeah, the real Corporal. Wow. I didn't know that. He died this weekend. Oh, wow. He was a big star in Japan, too. So now we only have one.

Well, you're the one now. Pick up the slack. Also, Peyton Meadows, Rabbi Shmuelovich, and his wife, Sheda Perlman, Mitch Kumstein, Burgermeister and Meister Burglar. Wait, Burgermeister and Meister Burglar. Wait, Burgermeister, Meister Burglar. That's what it is. James Marder, Larry Butterfast, happy birthday, buddy. Hey, happy birthday.

Good to have you around. Kimberly Cooey, Joan Arndt, Kayla Lyons, Frank the South African Birdwasher, happy birthday and happy New Year. He's a New Year baby. Oh, well, happy both and happy New Year. He's a New Year baby. Oh, well, happy both to you. Happy everything. Chelsea Carver, Mike Bummonk, Erwin Lopez,

Dorte Lundforschnick, what? That can't be a real name. Is it? Maybe. Joseph Seipt, Laura Koch, Cockle, Kukluch. I don't know. Kukluch. Coach Cockle? I don't know.

Catherine Wilchowski? Janice Hill? Erica Tavecchio? In Como, Italy, James? I called you Jamie. Oh, well then. Thank you for that. Appreciate that.

Bree Stewart? Charlie with no last name. Allison with no last name. John Jenkinson? Ralph Fralick? Tammy? Tammy Covert? Benjamin Swanson? Stuart Charlie with no last name. Allison with no last name. John Jenkinson. Ralph Freilich. Tammy. Tammy. Tammy Covert. Benjamin Swanson.

Leanne Finlay. Alana Salmon. Roussert. No last name. Emily Grillo. Grillo. Claudia Lukenbach-Bowman. Kealani Wisdom.

Andrew Colkert. Chris Kelly and Chris Riley. Jeremyiley jeremy clausing uh clausing clausing like santa uh melody hogan bitches modern viking tina allwin alexander lee klein joshua nordman nordman brent chandler savannah steffi uh reese jimmy wiss man Jeffy, Reese Burns. Jimmy Wiss, man. Jeff with no last name. Allie Warnham. Ryan Bergen. Vanessa Maria Bello. Becky with no last name.

Emily Daniels. Julie Rose. Rose. Rose. Stephanie Lee. Byron Einerson. Jesus. Annette Boyer.

Brooke with no last name. John or Jean Johnson. Joni Knight-Viverito. Martha. Martha. Martha Pickle Keaveny. Sounds so confused. This is exhausting. James Ray.

Taya. Taya Wingert. Tracy Davis. Billy Newman. Theo with no last name. Diana Hedges Mayer. Michael Brumley. Liam McNamara.

Liam. Jarrett McCoy. Leah. Larry, Larry Creek, Stephen, nope, that's, yeah, Stephen, Stephen Perrin, Eddie Nix, Zach Russell, I guess Terrier, Jermaine Jones, Audra with no last name, Cynthia Karaginidis, Paul Lopez,

Hannah Brown, Tom S., Noah Jude, Andy Stanford, Aubrey Lynn Chibata, Dane Green, Sarah Kulin, Kelly Hodges, Anna Teresa Rodriguez, Latourne Lanson, Lansden, Jennifer Hancock, Andrea Nelson, Quentin Eldridge, Kristen Butcher, Chris Johnson, Nicholas Jules, Stephen Adams, Michael Johnson, Chris Johnson, Nicholas Jules, Stephen Adams, Michael Johnson, TJ Hillis, Emma Ward, Jeff Shepard, Michael Molle, Emma Ward, Mary Patton, Brandon Cole, BK2K, Teresa Rodriguez, Amy McKay, Bethany Scholten, Susie Lalonde, Parth with no last name, Brianna with no last name, Simon Chug, Rebecca Gardner, Megan Condello, Tina Armstrong, Bobby G., Garrett Simpson, Kedrick Patterson, Andrea Minow, Christopher Vinton, Jason Forrest, Margaret Shields, Mackenzie Kelly, Becky Visser, Don Carlton, Izzy Mendez, David Payne, Jess Estes, I know, I know, Casco, what, Caskey? Stephanie Cordova, Amanda with no last name, Andrew Patrick David, L. McComsky, Charlie P. I think it's Charlie M's brother, Charlie P.

Charlie fucking M. You made me pop your fucking eye out. Charlie fucking M. Jackie Banks, Stephen Tresp, Brian Smith, Alexander Michael Franson, Daniel Johnson, and all of our patrons. You guys are fantastic. Thank you. Thank you are fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much for what you do for us. Honestly, we cannot tell you how much we appreciate it. And we're sorry about the no Patreon on Christmas. That's the first time in two years we've skipped a week and extenuating circumstances. It was literally Christmas Day. They were coming out and my grandma died and i just didn't stop i didn't have it in me i apologize but i mean they pay for it so it's stop it we'll give you good ones next time we love you give these people

things every two weeks james every two weeks means sometimes uh some months there's three weeks that's true so you calm the fuck down with your apologies they're great right jimmy see jimmy sticks up for me always we stick up for each other viciously we really do we really do i'll break jimmy's balls he'll break my balls but if anyone else attacks jimmy i'm like oh you mother don't you dare if anybody's upset take your five dollars back uh we don't want it anyway we'll give you more trust us we got you covered so uh what if somebody wants to have you covered how could they find you out there in the world you can find me online uh everywhere uh that online exists

and you can yell at me for defending james there i you're not gonna because i'll i'll i'll eviscerate you uh over over there that is one that i'm not gonna stand for but they can google me and you the show because google small town murder and you will find both of us like i assure you and if you find anybody else tell us because we're gonna fucking hunt them down this is our goddamn show yeah they're lying to you you want this show you can come take it like mike tyson did that's right just like her on butler's story like gilbert arenas once said that's great if you haven't listened to crime and sports listen to crime and sports this week it's totally different story and it's wild shit you're gonna love it and the subject

co-signed so he did he quran was dude's a stand-up agrees he fucking is dude as real as it gets man so that said thank you for all your support for this entire year because next time we talk to you it's gonna be 2022 I will not say that I'll just say it'll be 2022 so I'm so thank you for the year's worth of support thank you we appreciate it so much and uh until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

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