Small Town Murder - #259 - A Bizarre Psychopath & His Porn - Raymond, Wisconsin

Episode Date: January 20, 2022

This week, in Raymond, Wisconsin, a grotesque scene unfolds, after body parts are found scattered throughout a rural town, leading to rumors of cults, vampires, and camouflaged people, running through the woods. In the end, it's something even more disturbing, a regular guy. An employed, married family man, with kids, who just happens to be into gory videos, violence, and has a pornography collection that is apparently open to friends & neighbors to borrow. The murder is as bad as it gets. Torture, dissection, and dismemberment, and a brain, jammed into the garbage disposal. But the story somehow gets even stranger, when all the facts come out. Along the way, we find out that drinking is something to do when it's cold out, that brains are a tough fit for the garbage disposal, and that if you plan to murder, you'd better get rid of your porn, first!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Raymond, Wisconsin, a rural garage is the scene of an absolutely vicious and gory mess of an attack leading to body parts being found all over the area. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. Jimmy, your yay was on target because... So excited. You should be excited because we have one of the craziest episodes you're ever going to hear about today.

Outstanding. Wild, wild stuff. Quickly, before we get into that, just want to say thank you for everything. Reviews help a lot. Anywhere you listen, Apple spotify stitcher wherever audible now you can even review so if you listen if you have an audible account get on there give us a review find it helps out a lot thank you for doing that head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now not only for tons and tons of merch but also tickets to the virtual live show oh my god my

goodness february the 10, it'll be an episode of Small Town Murder. New case, new story, and same, it's going to be hilarious as always. It'll be so much fun. The virtual live shows

are a blast, and this will be no exception. It'll be available for 72 hours after the February 10th date as well, so get your tickets

right now. That is shutupandgivememurder.com or moment house.com slash shut up and no slash small town murder either way go to our website whatever let's do it together it'll be a lot of fun so do that also patreon this week patreon.com slash crime and sports where you get all the bonus stuff all the bonus episodes and you get access to everything all the crime and sports bonus episodes the small town murder bonus episodes and you get access to everything. All the crime and sports bonus episodes, the small town murder bonus episodes, whole back catalog.

This week we are going to do we are going to get access to all of it. Crime and sports. We are going to have on field incidents that caused real world arrests. So I guess you can do crazy things in sports, but up to a certain point, and then it becomes criminal even if it's on a field. And then we'll find out. A life penalty. Yeah, we'll find out how crazy you have to be in a hockey arena, as an example, to get arrested. And for Small Town Murders, we are going to go from an episode we had a couple weeks ago, dig a little deeper into the Tony Alamo cult, which a lot of you

were very interested in. Not so much the whole cult-esque, and we'll talk about it, but really want to get into what the hell was going on with those jackets and the whole fashion of Tony Alamo and celebrities that really wore it. And there's a lot to unpack there that's just like, you're wearing cult slave labor gear. Like, what are you doing? Everybody in Hollywood, what's happening? So a child bled to keep Dolly warm.

It's bad stuff. So we'll check all that out and you can get it all. Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. Five dollars or above gets you access to everything you could possibly possibly want and we could possibly do. And it'll get you a shout out. thing you could possibly possibly want and we could possibly do and it'll get you a shout out jimmy will jimmy's gonna mangle your name at the end of the show while really trying hard to pronounce it correctly of you absolutely or you can do that at paypal as well crime and sports at gmail.com is the email address quick disclaimer it's a comedy show we are certainly comedians this

is definitely a comedy show but it's also a real story of murder. We don't make anything up. Nothing's embellished for comedic effect. Nothing like that. It's real crazy stuff, and we're going to talk about it. There's going to be jokes, but there's going to be jokes about the right things. What we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, is we do not make fun of the victim or the victim's family why james that's because we're assholes but we're not scumbags you know that works there's a fine

line so if that sounds good to you it's gonna be a wild episode uh we have a crazy story if you think true crime and comedy should never ever ever never go together maybe it's not for you but maybe it is either way don't complain later we don't want to hear you bitching give it a try and uh whatever there you go so it's not as bad as you think we'll put it that way that said i think it's time jimmy to sit back clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder murder sweet murder that's not where we're going with this. Sweet murder? What the hell is wrong with you?

I don't know what I'm doing. I'm sorry. That's all right. I'm having a good time. Well, we're getting it. You know what? We have fun. Yeah.

This has already happened. It's not like we are going out and murdering someone so we have a story to tell. That's not how this works. It already happened. It happened and we can't help it so here we go raymond wisconsin we're going to here we're going all the way to wisconsin jimmy let's go on that trip oregon was that where raymond there's we've had we've had a raymond yeah washington then there was raynham massachusetts which sounds close to it this is

in southeastern wisconsin by the way we are going to go very quickly through the town stuff because there is so much mayhem going on in this murder that we we got to discuss that so this is in southeastern wisconsin it's right outside milwaukee about 25 minutes to milwaukee about 25 minutes to racine so it's kind of in there uh about 45 minutes to grafton wisconsin which was our last Wisconsin episode. 222, Murder Shoes and Fabulation was the name of that one. That was another. Wisconsin never lets us down either. The whole upper Midwest, all of it, it never lets us.

That was the day I learned fabulation is a word. Yeah, and this week confabulation is going to come into play. I swear to God. I don't know what it is a word. Yeah. And this week, confabulation is going to come into play. I swear to God. I don't know what it is with Wisconsin. Why are they all fabulating? It's because they're drunk, really, honestly. And that's a lot of it. In both the cases, that's why.

So this is in Racine County, area code 262. The motto here, a great place to live in the heart of Racine County. Oh, boy. there you go uh or the this is more for the locals a great place to drink beer in the cold so there you go i feel like that's what's going on there a very quick history it's was originally known as uh as uh raymond center and then they just changed it to raymond and it became like a ghost town for a long time awesome like the middle of raymond and now then it like repopulated i don't know you rarely hear of ghost towns coming back yeah it's not a thing once it's a ghost town it's a ghost

town towns generally don't experience a second boom after it died this one worked man i think it's in racine there's a lot of industry there's uh s sc johnson and son products they got uh dremel corporation is their reliance controls corporation which does like switches and time controls and all that shit uh all sorts of stuff like that uh they had a wagon maker back in the 1800s that began then they ended up making uh mitchell and lewis company it's called do you know that one they made they made motorcycles and at like the very beginning of the 20th century so very beginning of the 1900s they made motorcycles and cars that didn't work right probably i don't know racine is also the home to insinkerator which didn't we have a

case very recently where someone was employed by Incinerator last week, like two weeks ago? I think it was. I think that was the Illinois case or somebody worked at like the Illinois branch of Incinerator. Well, here that this is the Harley's in Milwaukee. So that makes sense why that company was there, too. A lot of that stuff.

The Horlicks malt factory there was was in Racine, which made malted milk balls like Whoppers. And then the Western Publishing Factory where the little golden books were printed. Remember little golden books? Yeah, they made them here, man. So much Americana in this place. Little golden books. And that's pretty cool. Let's get right to reviews. Not a lot of reviews. It's a small town. Not a lot happens here.

This is one of the least active as far as there's not a lot of festivals happening here. There's not really a lot of much of anything happening around here. They're too busy making America work, James. There's a lot of farmland. It's just kind of pretty kind of a slow pace of living here so here's reviews five stars i love living out in the country it's beautiful all one sentence so there you go all one sentence uh another five star i wouldn't trade my living place for anything i love it living place i've never ever heard of your hometown put as your living place

that's the funniest thing i've ever heard that's amazing the living place where's your current living place pardon if someone asked you that you'd be like what are you i'm where's your original living place what what are you sniffing did you just ask me where I'm from in the weirdest way ever, you alien? Are you sniffing glue? What is wrong with you? Do you forget English? So that's like how a foreigner who just like, what is your living place? Are you from?

Where are you? A living place? You'd be like, yeah, that you'd understand. Oh, that's better than I could do in your language. Fine. You mean my town? You just used 11 letters to say town. We don't call that a living place here's four stars i think that raymond is a very nice place to live but could be improved

oh well let's get into what could be improved sir for starters the public elementary school is pretty good compared to others in the area but but doesn't really... The learning place? The learning place. That's where that is, the learning place. It doesn't really prepare you for high school, though. I think junior high is for that, really, probably. Not elementary school is the reason. I do not get a major sense of community in the area. You really have to put yourself out there to feel this. What the hell are you talking about?

What do you want from this place? With Foxconn building nearby and talk of Raymond becoming a village, I believe this will begin to change and improve. I don't know what you're talking about. What is Foxconn? I don't know. This person is the person you'd run into in about 30 seconds of conversation. You'd be like, I got to pick my kids up from school. They're like, it's Sunday and it's dark outside. of conversation you'd be like i gotta pick my kids up from school and they're like it's a thing it's sunday and it's dark outside what are you talking about yeah they

uh they're really study hard i gotta get over to the active place some eating and maybe an eating place my kids are at the learning place and then i gotta go to the pizza place obviously and go hey that one works so it's a three star here the last one a small town with nothing going on that's the point i guess one elementary school and a little hardware store in town that's it there's not a lot going on population there's 3 932 people here so oh it's tiny short short of 4 000 um male female it's all average. Median age is a little bit higher here. Seems like a little slower. 65% married.

This is a family, kind of a rural community. Not a lot of single people running around this joint. Race of this town, 95% white. You bet. I mean, it's rural farm Wisconsin land. It's kind of what you'd expect here and the kind of white is transparent it's very white it's a very they have their veins yeah you're like you're in the sun all summer and on the farm how do you not get tan of some kind what

happens there 0.6 percent black i just think like a packer defensive lineman lives there or something that's all that is uh yeah 0.0 percent asian um i mean not a lot of that 3.2 percent hispanics it's just pretty white i mean it's wisconsin religious here 47 religious 23 catholic about 12 lutheran it's mixed up 0.0 jewish though none of that happened none of that happened here politically it's pretty pretty close honestly it's about last election 47 percent democrat 51 percent republican about two percent independent uh unemployment rate all that stuff is average they make a few more dollars here household income median household income is a little bit higher than the national average about 70 000 a year70,000 a year here, which, you know, it's about $57,000 everywhere else.

So not bad. Cost of living in this joint here, $105,000 out of $100,000. So not that high. Housing is the high one, honestly. Median home cost here, $332,800. My God. Which, yeah, rural Wisconsin, you wouldn't...

I guess it's because the properties are big i think that might be it like there's not a lot of yeah any of the real estate a lot of it is like farmland you can't really find a lot in this town mainly the stuff we found is kind of near it you know nearby which i mean it's not like it's not like there's a town square and houses around it and then nothing it's like a a hardware store and then a bunch of farms is really the whole area here. So if we've convinced you, damn it, you are looking for a little slower pace of living, a little colder beer, a little fresher cheese. We have for you, everybody, the Raymond, Wisconsin Real Estate Report. everybody the raymond wisconsin real estate report your average two bedroom rental here goes for about 931 bucks which if you i don't know if there's a lot of that available but that's lower than the housing price yeah i found here's one

it's an eight bedroom six i don't know how this is possible this is the this is the weirdest thing i've ever seen an eight bedroom six bath 1935 square foot house that's not possible how does that work are you just it's not possible you can't no unless i don't unless they're like pods i don't know those areets. It's like a Japanese hotel. I don't know how they have that set up. That's crazy. Yeah. There's a very kind of a really depressing sand pit for the kids out back. It's not great here.

Like a Fisher plastic slide in the front. It's kind of a depressing joint. But it's $319,900 for this. Not that cheap either. I found a four-bedroom, three-bath, 3,081-square-foot house. There you go. This seems nice. It's all wood and stone and kind of cool, like rural, but like done modern rural.

It's not bad, actually. It's a nice house. A little expensive, though. There's a lot of area to it, too. $589,000 for that bad boy. That's steep. It's a little steep. And then finally, a three-bedroom, three-bath, very weird setup for a 2,806-square-foot house.

It's nice. There's a huge windmill on the property. Oh, cool. You're getting a lot of farmland and property and all this sort of thing. $975,000 for that bed. Pricey, but a lot of it doesn't have to do with the

houses. That's not a million dollar house. It's a million dollar property. That's how that's working. Things to do here know not a that's not a million dollar house it's a million dollar property you know that's how that's working things to do here not a lot i mean find a barn and drink in it really it's not there is not a lot happening um they found in nearby in a town nearby there's the spinning top and yo-yo museum yeah so that's like something that clark griswold was forcing his family to stop at in vacation that's what that sounds like kids we're gonna stop at the spinning top and yo-yo museum and they're like oh jesus dad after that the world's largest ball of yarn yeah so they have say they have a huge collection of tops yo--yos, and related toys. Well, I mean, yeah.

Hosts the annual Action Skill Toys and Yo-Yo Convention in the spring. Oh, God, that sounds so boring. Wow. Who's going? I mean, yo-yo, fine, whatever. But, like, who the hell is showing up at the yo-yo convention? Well, eventually, it gets so boring, you got to get a top mixed in the mix. Oh, man.

You know what? I was never into tops, but coming here every year for the big convention, I'm starting to get turned on to them. I don't know what it is. I'm starting to feel these tops. Also, they have pub crawls in nearby towns, and there's a lot of those. There's the beer and bacon walk, one of them's called, which, I mean, they give you beer and there's bacon.

One called Party on the Pavement. So you just walk around Wisconsin and get shit-faced in the three weeks that it's warm a year. And there you go. That's what you got. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, obviously. Property crime here is pretty damn low, actually. It's almost about half of the national average so not bad violent crime murder rape robbery and obviously assault the mount rushmore of crime uh

that's about a third of the national average so really pretty low yeah two-thirds under the national average so very very low that said let us talk about a murder and okay i don't know what it was about this area during this time but shit was going crazy this is like one of the you know there's certain times like in the 70s like the northwest was a like a murder hotbed yeah bundy and a green river killer after that and all that shit like this wisconsin in the late 80s early 90s was the insane disgusting fucking gory grotesque murder capital of the united states at this point in time thank god for cell phones so weird yeah no shit so let's talk about this murder we have to go back to july 11th 1990 so not too far back but you know everything's in color

we'll put it that way so 1990 and uh there's a guy named duane zakey i guess czaicki wow zakey zakey i don't know whatever checky maybe check? Maybe? Chekey? C-Z-A-K-I? C-Z-A-I-C-K-I. Is that Sakai? This person has very little to do with the story, so we won't spend much time on it. So he's with his son, and his role in the story is he and his son are walking down 8 mile road which is a block east of 108th street which sounds urban doesn't it yeah it sounds like you're like there's going to be like a like a group of people freestyling on a corner and shit but instead this is way out in the farmlands this

is just the roads are just still numbered i guess from mil Milwaukee out there. Racine, I don't fucking know. It's the third street all the way to Detroit. All the way down, baby. So they are walking, and they look on the ditch on the south side of 8 Mile Road, and what they find is a human head. Oh, my. Just a head. Just a head just laying there. Just a head by itself, just doing its thing being a head um looks to be the top of it's gone so that's something um and it looks to be cleaned out

inside looks to be just like a it's like a freshish human head minus any of the innards yikes so it's a skull with still some face on it, basically. That's it? That's what's there. My word. That's what him and his son find on a nice walk through the rural farmland. That'll teach them. Yeah.

You saw a deer skeleton in the woods and was like, dude, that shit freaked me out. There's a body down there, James. It's a deer, but it's a body. Yeah. This still had a face. I mean, this would be terrifying. This is a terrifying find. They said, quote, it was two feet off the road.

It's just right there. They didn't have to. They're minding their own business. This is what I mean. If that's a city, that's in the gutter. That's too close. That's on the sidewalk. Yeah.

This isn't like some, you didn't go out of your way to find this. You were minding your own business walking and it's right there. You couldn't help but see it. You're not like the guy in Serial who was like, I went a quarter mile into the woods to take a leak. Right. And then I found a dead Asian girl. That's not what happened here.

So they said, quote, it was very much in the open and easy to see it was just sitting there awful just doing nothing uh this is at 10 30 a.m and uh so then they brought in obviously the police bring in a tracking dog say well i mean we don't think this was just a person with a head there must be more of them somewhere so they explore the nearby area and they're looking for the rest of the body somewhere they can't find it and uh so that's that uh the thing is this head luckily for them connects to june 29th which is you know 13 days ago 12 days ago when they found a torso and some legs. Oh, that's helpful. That's helpful.

Yeah. Still no. It's just those still no arms and no head, but a torso and some legs. So that's a that's a plus, I guess. Yeah. The people. Jesus, that's crazy, though. The people you're just walking and you find a head.

And they said after that, it went nuts in that in the it's a rural area. No one ever. There's a car once in a while. And they said after they found a went nuts in that. It's a rural area. There's a car once in a while. And they said after they found a head, everybody was coming by. They were really bothered by it. They were like, now there's traffic, too, on top of heads being found everywhere. They said the neighbors were, well, first of all, he said when he found it, he said to his son, oh, my God, I got to go get a cop, he tells his kid. Oh, my God, look that way, is what you say.

Don't look over here. Hey, son, look at there. Check it out. It's Godzilla over here. Look. No, no, really. I saw him duck behind some trees. Let's go find him.

That is fucking wild, man. So, yeah, they said everybody's scared um the the guy who found it said everybody around here is pretty friendly but there are some people who keep to themselves and we've always kind of looked out for each other and we didn't recognize this head so there's that don't know where the head came from um so uh yeah they're looking for the rest of him obviously because there's still arms missing. If it's the same guy that goes with this together, they're going to do a toxicology exam and x-rays and do all that shit. So the torso and the legs were found in Norway, the town of Norway nearby, in a farm field, somebody's farm on June 29th. And yeah, they were found and wrapped in two yellow plastic garbage bags.

This is the thing. Everything that's found besides the head, which is just kind of laying there, everything else is wrapped in double layer plastic garbage bags that are yellow, very distinctive garbage bags that are not commercially available there yeah that's not something that a lot of people have you can't go into walmart and buy this like this is a janitorial supply exactly this is something where it's a it's an industrial type of bag like that's the type of deal so that's something to work with anyway we have this bag that not everybody has if it's a a heavy, you know, a hefty whatever bag, then okay.

Breeze-scented. Yeah. That could be anybody. Let's start at every grocery store and work around because everybody has it. So, yeah. So they said they're going to ship the bag to a bag manufacturer to try to get an identity of, you know, maybe they can get like a trace on where these bags were sent because a lot of times they can do that. So they – this is fucking horrible.

They're doing all of this and they run some tests and they reveal from the tests just from what they found from his ankles and everything else that he has ligature marks on his ankles. This guy, the what's attached to is the neck parts that are attached to his head show ligature marks as well. And fragments also consistent with metal bullets found embedded in the skull as well. Also organs were removed from the body. Yikes.

They didn't just fall out and like an animal didn't get into the bag and say, I'm really going after that kidney. Like there's just hands, uh, the liver's gone. Uh, one kidney's gone. Things like that. The bladder's gone. Just some stuff. Oh.

And, uh, the genitalia also very much removed as well. Yeah. So this is crazy. So so far, the brain has been removed. Brain, genitalia, brain, dick, kidney, bladder, liver have been taken from this body. A bunch of things that you can transplant except a dick. Except a dick. Why take that?

That's what I mean. This isn't like a black market. Oh, I like the look of his cock, too. Take that while we're at it. I know we only have a contract for a kidney. Harvesting the guy. Yeah, while we're harvesting him. But ligature marks also all over the place.

So whatever happened, this is crazy. This guy went through the mill here so um reports here they're looking trying they don't know anything so reports start coming in from western racine county this is the first thing they investigate of shadowy figures okay out in the rural areas oh boy people in hooded gowns yeah not clansmen different kinds of hooded gowns creeps yeah like have surfaced and being considered as you know they don't know they don't know whether this is evidence or just a nasty rumor so uh they said that there's all sorts of weird things coming in similar reports from county residents they they heard reports of a man seen wearing military fatigues and face paint and running through the area one night three years ago as well.

I don't know if that was just Schwarzenegger training for Predator or just doing a Predator run through. I'm doing blocking. I have to practice. Did they film that in the woods of wisconsin and pretend it was somewhere else i think that i think it was cambodia but now i think they lied about that i think they fucking lied now south america or some shit the the first run of gi joe they've got to get some got to get some shit on film as a pilot. I don't know what is happening.

What the fuck would that mean? Someone's making a student film. Also, this is out in the woods. There would be people out there in fatigues and face paint who are hunting and hiding from deer. Which is like running through an area one night by themselves, which I guess is aberrant hunting behavior. I don't know how to hunt sound like that matters i don't i don't hunt so you know what maybe that's how you do it i'm not sure maybe you have to freak the deer out first maybe that's what you do you run through one night

james you gotta be the deer well you spook them right that way they're really that way they're on alert and then i need a little noise they run and then you shoot at them right i don't know how it works so that's how they're doing more sporting than whatever they do i guess so they uh the investigator said people will remember things an incident that shocked them and they will let you know it's the type of thing that's almost impossible to check out how do you check out there was a guy with fatigues and face paint running around three years ago how do you investigate that it's just a waste of my time thank you three years ago three years ago but they said you never know what tips are going to lead to you know the the the the key they said that there's a obviously possibility of satan worshiping or cult activity when When they saw that, they've heard of hooded gowns. So they're like hooded gowns, organs removed, dismemberment. You know, it sounds like it.

But the one investigator said, but we can find no evidence of this going on until we can find evidence that this is going on. We consider it a nasty rumor. So, yeah. How do you know if there's this is people I hear there's Satanists with hoods and they're take people apart so this is way simpler than that let me let me foreshadow for you so they cabal of celebrities

that are draining babies in the woods super weird so they get 10 investigators third shift deputies come on the day everybody's on board here. This is the whole deal. They interview more than 350 people about this because they have no idea what's going on.

And they just have obviously one of the more brutal things they've ever seen around here. So I can't imagine seeing this. This is crazy. They said, quote, We've interviewed several possible suspects, but no direct connection can be found between the suspects and the homicide. He said that they couldn't, you know, they just can't figure it out right now. So they're searching homes, rural fields in a three mile radius near Highway 45 in Raymond and Norway townships where the body parts were found. They said it could take up to two months to even find threat. Who knows how long it'll take to find any body parts or we need a big break.

Basically, we need a we need a big break. So the residents, he said, everybody's been helpful. He said they all want us to catch the person, but nobody has any information. He said, we're doing everything we can absolutely think of. We have to do it methodically and within the law. And it's going to take some time. Sure. Obviously, that makes sense. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories

we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. or on Apple Podcasts. revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts during this time they're wondering if this is connected to a thing in michigan in war in michigan uh where they found another head there's another head and dismembered body so in michigan they found body parts and four garbage bags found in a backyard and a car this is after two young women quote brought a severed frozen head into the northern detroit suburbs police station wednesday afternoon and so they found it in the

car two chicks just walked in and were like we have a frozen head it seems like something that's in your purview maybe you guys want to take a look at this and i don't know i was gonna bring it to the salvation army they said they didn't want it put it in that bin thing but no one's gonna take it probably so i guess you guys maybe instead. That was my first idea. Yeah. Put it in the car, put it in my front seat and be able to use the carpool lane. But I thought, nah, that's all right. We'll let these guys have it.

So, yeah, they're wondering. It's about 370 miles away. But, you know, who knows? When you're taking heads off, that's not a lot of distance to travel. 400 miles between two severed heads isn't a lot of miles it's really not it's they you can connect those dots pretty easily they said that it's it's weird um they said that the skin and hair had been removed from the frozen head wow which was wrapped in a uh freezer bag and placed in a grocery bag he said i don't think anybody here has seen anything like it it

looked like something out of a horror movie i believe it i would say but they're saying the the different things here uh you know just the different the way that's ahead in the guard the bags they're looking to see if there's a connection but they don't think there's one there it seems like a different deal uh then they found more body parts. This is helpful. Helpful for identification, especially. They found what they believe to be a left hand and an arm. Okay. That's helpful.

That's a badge. This is after a couple from a neighborhood went on vacation. Oh, God. They left their dog with their friends while they went on vacation so the friends took the dog out for a walk and the dog ran up to them with what they thought was a stick and believable it was a decomposing arm not a stick just pulled a piece of human arm from the brush just fucking popped out so they were like holy shit so they called the cops and uh the cops what they ended up doing is hanging out by the dog we've seen this before

they're like well the dog knows where the shit is so let's just watch what else you got buddy so now the dog's in charge of the entire invention not even a police dog this is just a game warden we'll just use that guy's dog this is just some neighborhood dog now it's like well really we at this point we follow the dog we uh we see how the dog wants to proceed with the investigation really i mean we've we've strategized we got everybody in a circle we had a meeting the chief talked to us and everything and he said we're gonna let the dog take control and we said all right i'm gonna be honest everybody around here was asked a lot of questions with no answers you know who had an answer that dog that dog listen to that dog that's it so uh they ended up following the dog around and it ended up wandering off and coming back with a

left hand after a while so at a boy they're like what a good fucking dog good boy you are gross you're the grossest best boy we got here. What a disgusting good boy. No, don't lick me. Don't lick me. Don't you dare lick me. Not in the face. Not in the face. I'm going to pet your head gently, and then we are going to find doggy mouthwash.

That's what we're going to find. Somebody get him a greenie. How do you make a dog gargle? Is that? Anybody know how to do that? So this is pretty fucked up so they send the hand off to be fingerprinted that's how they're going to be easiest way to skin on it yeah yeah they can fingerprint i guess still what's left on it and uh because this is before they found the head

they or they found the head this is after they found the head okay so they end up uh being able to pull some sort of fingerprints off of this and they said that the uh the so the torso pelvis legs found in two commercial grade bags along highway k so then these are in the other area now um another part of the uh when they found the torso it was found by a cow actually a cow in the spring grove dairy farmer named john doll found it after he saw his cow nudging at the bags just nuzzling it around yeah he said he picked up a bag and he said when he picked it up it broke open and a human leg fell out yikes this is every discovery is the most horrifying way you can discover anything you and your eight-year-old son are walking and there's a head next to the road especially the way it's it's sitting there is disgusting yeah the you find an arm by its dangling out of a dog's

mouth which is oh god horrifying and then oblivious are the people of wisconsin that all their animals find the body yeah the cops can't find it, but animals can. All that aren't even looking for it, by the way. These aren't trained animals that they've sent on the path. They're just a cow. This is a milk cow. And this poor guy picks it open like, ah, some son of a bitch dumped garbage on my farm. He's pissed off, picks it up, a fucking leg falls out.

Now he's more pissed off. Now he's more pissed off. He said, quote, it's an awful thing to see. I'm sure. Understatement of the year, probably. It's something you think could never happen, that someone would cut up a human body. Unfortunately, we know that it does. I know, way too well.

That happens all the time. It happens a lot. We've had that about 50 times. That happens more times, Jamesames than a cow finds a dead body yeah you don't hear that we never hear the like a tracking cow yeah that would be like a hilarious sketch though that you know really we found that cows have a stronger sense of smell than dogs and then you show like a cow training center where they're training dogs to training cows to do police dog shit. Cadaver cows.

They're like, go find it, boy, and the cow just turns real slow. That's fucking Bell. He takes his time, but once he gets there, he does a thorough job, buddy. Let me tell you something. He'll nuzzle the shit out of that body. If I had access to cows, I would make that video because that would be very funny. I have no cow access. Can I borrow your cow for a while is a weird thing to ask somebody.

I want to shoot a video. No, nothing gross. I swear. It's gross. All genitalia will be put away. I promise you that. My dick will be in my pants. It's not gross in that I'm naked, but it's gross. It's just gross.

So the torso, by the way, has been stabbed in the front and the back. Oh, my. So double stabbed. Ligature marks around the neck and wrists and ankles. Head fucking broken open with the brain removed. Liver, bladder, kidney. One kidney, by the way. And dick all removed and cut up into multiple pieces legs cut up off

the torso pelvis separated from the torso yeah arms and hands different this is a thorough job here now two of the legs and the pelvis were found in the second bag they were identified finally through a tattoo that's how they ended up identifying this person through a tattoo which is lucky because in 1990 not everybody had tattoos so it's a lucky thing uh and also some fingerprints they said and uh they the two of them together they figured out that these all of this all of these parts belong to james m madden who is uh was 24 years old goes by jim and uh he was last seen june 27th 1990 so uh they found the torso was found two days after he was gone no kidding so two days or a day and a half after he was last seen and then it took a while yeah it took a while to find

the head and the arms and and that sort of. So he works for currently a group called Citizens for a Better Environment. It's an environmental group. And he goes around and solicits donations for environmental causes. That's what he's doing. That's what he's into. So he has a girlfriend named Allie Winkler. And they met about five years before that, about 1985 at a party. And they've been friends, and they recently started dating.

Okay. Because Jim has not had his act together his whole life here. Jim kind of, you know, he's got some things going on here. He's 24. He's 24, and he's been trying to find himself, as we'll talk about here in kind of a typical way. She said that he's always a really great guy, carefree. She said, quote, he wasn't a worrier. He was really happy and fun-loving.

He's always laughing. And recently, in May of this year, he had a conviction, a federal drug conviction, for possession of LSD. Which, I mean, yeah. Well, he actually used to follow the Grateful Dead around for like two years. Is that right? Yeah, he followed the Dead around for like two years in the late 80s. So he took some acid. He's following the Dead.

Who fucking cares? That's fine. I don't give a shit about that. He's 24. Let me tell you some people who aren't going to bother you. People who are tripping at a Grateful Dead concert. Yeah. They're all in a group in a thing.

You know where they all are? Don't worry about them. They're not going to bother you at all. They're doing their own fucking thing. They don't care what you're doing. So, yeah, she did all of that. He did all that. But the girlfriend said that now that's all over with.

He had stopped doing drugs. He doesn't follow the dead around anymore. She said he was bragging about the fact that he had been clean recently. That's been his that's been his new thing that he's been trying to work on is I'm I'm clean now. Now I'm not the grateful dead guy. So she said they started, you know, dating earlier. She met him at the University of Wisconsin when he was a student at a party, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. He ended up dropping out of school to follow the dead.

Yeah. Because you can't do both. Yeah, you can't do both. No. Acid and concerts don't go well. You can't be at a lecture when you're tripping balls. When you're tripping balls outside Omaha in a field somewhere. It's a little different.

So she said, though, quote, he's matured a lot since he came back from Washington. That's where he got busted for acid was in Washington. She said he was such a thoughtful guy. About a week before he disappeared, he called her and left a message on her answering machine. That dates the story right there. I bet it does. She rewound the tape and played it. Yeah.

What? He said that he was coming over to give a birthday present, not to her, because it's not her birthday, but to one of her three cats, Bogey. Get the fuck out of here. He had a birthday. Just stop him by to drop off a birthday present for little Bogie there. Wow. That's pretty sweet.

Like, this is after they've already had sex. So. He's not even trying. This isn't like, damn, this is a tough egg to crack here. I gotta, you know what? I'm gonna buy a fucking birthday present for a cat. Not even, she's not even like taking that angle. We're gonna watch

a hallmark movie this is gonna be that kind of night fuck it no this is like he's just a nice guy who wants to buy presents for cats she says that tells a lot about him yeah he does trips he follows the dead he buys gifts for cats he's a sweetheart of a man he's a we'll call him a gentle person probably doesn't sound like a real... You wouldn't hear all of that, and you're like, man, but I'll tell you, you get him in a group, and he just starts breaking beer bottles and cutting people. It's weird.

He just gets angry, man. You wouldn't hear all that. You know, of all the guys that I witnessed in domestic violence situations against my own mother, not one of them were cat birthday gift givers. Cat birthday gift givers with LSD convictions. Not one of them. And no other convictions, just LSD.

Wasn't LSD and meth, just LSD. So she said she tried calling him on the 27th, the day he went missing, to tell him that she got good seats for a concert coming to the area. I wish I knew what that was, but I don't. They were also planning a camping trip the following weekend. And she said he was really looking forward to it. But the next day, she was informed by his family, because she started calling his family up, like, I haven't talked to Jim.

Is he around? Do you talk to Jim? And they said he's missing. We don't know where he is. He didn't come back to the group last night. We'll find out where he went. So she left another message for him on his answering machine. And then she drove to the town of Norway. And she said, I don't know what I was looking for, trying to do something not to feel so helpless. She just went looking for him like he'd be wandering the streets. So the next night, that's when she heard a blurb on the news that partial remains of a man were found. That's when the torso was found. So she was like, shit. She said, I dropped what I was holding and said, oh, no, that doesn't sound good. No, it doesn't. No, it sounds whether it's Jim or not, that's bad for somebody.

What part of that story... Oh, no, that's not good. ...would ever sound good? Yeah, we found a torso and legs and not the rest of the body, first of all. So not only is someone dead... I'm glad they're safe. Not only is someone dead, that shit was on purpose. It wasn't like somebody dropped dead in a field and then they found him found him yeah i must have had a heart attack out there we're not

sure so he was last seen soliciting contributions for citizens for a better environment and sheriff's deputy said that uh he paid visits all around a bunch of people had recalled him stopping at their houses that night to solicit donations in the area and a lot of secluded homes there. So right away, the FBI is involved in this because it just sounds so wild. They consult with the FBI and they said the internal organs missing like that specific internal organs missing. Right. And the, you you know the penis being removed they said is suggestive of possibly cannibalism or vampirism something of that

nature that's what the fbi said that's the fbi's take on this like they're like that's possible and also they said once you mix that with the fact that he was bound with a cord and there was cuts found on his back and stuff like that, they start working up a profile. And so, yeah, anyway, he's last seen about 7.30 p.m. June 27th by a resident that he solicited. And then June 29th, they found his torso, pelvis, and legs. Then after that, they found the arm and the lower right arm and the left arm and all that sort of shit. So, yeah, anyway. So they found all these different, and they're all kind of on the same road. Here, let me show you this.

I got a map right here. Here, turn yourself over. Check that out. There's the map. And. Here, turn yourself over. Check that out. There's the map. And that's where he's last seen, number one. And then that's where all this other shit happened. He's visiting homes there. His parts are found all over here, over here.

Oh, that's not close at all. No, and then here and then all the way over there. So they're miles apart from each other. Yeah. So it's weird that the torso, pelvis, and legs are miles away from the other stuff. Like, it's a strange thing here. Kind of diagonally across Highway 45. Really weird.

So the investigation comes up, and they're obviously trying to find something. They said they just need eyewitnesses. They said other than that, they don't really have a lot to go on. The Lieutenant James Ivanovsky, who seems to be running this investigation, he said, I firmly believe someone out there saw something. That's what they're looking at. This is too much shit for nobody to see. Ivanovsky, I firmly believe somebody out there did something. Yeah.

Whether they saw something or not, it's a really separate issue at this point. So this is certainly on purpose. They know that his route as he walked door to door soliciting contributions. They said they don't know exactly where he was going, though, because they said, quote, he was hitting houses at somewhat random. He was kind of bouncing around. So there wasn't like a pattern. He wasn't doing like a trick or treat or thing door to door. He was going around.

He said, we don't have a definite place that he stopped. They said the route took him from Highway 45 and Seven Mile Road to a spot along Five Mile Road near North Cape. He said he was last seen near 45 and Five Mile Road about two hours before a scheduled rendezvous with colleagues. Because this is like they drop them off in an area and then they go pick them up and do all that shit. So he skipped. They said he skipped houses with long driveways because he just didn't want to walk a half mile up a driveway and then have nobody come to the door and be told no or be told no. And then he also avoided houses with dogs outside because for obvious reasons, he didn't want to get bit by a strange dog. And he's a cat person.

He said that the day before this happened, he'd been attacked by a Doberman. So that's why he was avoiding houses with dogs outside now. Because he's having a bad week, this guy. He really is. He's attacked by a dog, and then the next day he goes missing, and then parts of him end up scattered all over the county. So they said after they did a week of air and ground searches, they did interviews. Detectives had no solid leads, clues, or suspects. Not a lot of evidence.

They just said hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yellow garbage bags. That's all they could find because anywhere're anywhere they could find yellow garbage bags. They grab them and see if they match. So that's their their case file is like some autopsy reports, paperwork and a fucking room full of garbage bags that they've confiscated from around the from around the county. They said none of the bags they collected matched the commercial-grade bags that held the legs, though. So they haven't found them and the torso and pelvis. They're very specific, very specific bags. They said eventually they'll determine who manufactured the bags

and figure it out, though. So they said that they haven't ruled anything out, but they believe that Jim Madden was probably a random victim of an assault by a, quote, bizarre psychopath. Wow. A bizarre psychopath. That's a great description of somebody. Did they put that out to the public? That is in the newspaper.

Oh, my God. He was probably the random victim of an assault by a bizarre psychopath. That's the quote. Good morning. It's 810. Lead good morning it's 8 10 lead detective it's 8 10 36 degrees outside sky is nice and clear fucking traffic on the 45 it's a little clocked up due to torsos and pelvises being found pelvi i don't know what the plural of pelvises is but so they they're agents from the Division of Criminal Investigation who specialize in, quote, unusual murders are assisting the case.

They have an unusual murder division. I didn't know that. Those guys work slow, I guess. Learn something new every day, guess so the spokesman for the fbi in milwaukee said the bureau would offer its laboratory to investigators including experts in quantico who do the profiling and that's where we got the cannibalism and all that shit that they said possibly they said that in general the dismemberment hampers identification he said most victims can be identified with fingerprints footprints even dental charts and they said uh they don't know if this is

an attempt to try to hide who the victim is. Or they said maybe it's a psychopathic killing or someone, quote, just putting up a message. They don't know. They don't know if it's a message somebody who hates environmentalists, I guess. That's literally what they think. They don't know if it's a message. Somebody who hates environmentalists, I guess. That's literally what they think. They don't know if it's like a political message.

But this seems like an overkill for a political message. I've never heard. Let's remove his. Let's take his liver out. That's a weird. That'll show those fucking people on the other side. We mean business. Greenpeace.

Yeah. So they said, quote, it really nothing that they found really narrows the investigation. They said it actually makes it a little more complex, saying that they're talking to all these. There's so many people in play. They have no narrowed down anything. They said the investigation would focus on background checks of several people who've surfaces who surfaced as possible, albeit remote suspects here. Nothing solid. They said that one suspect comes up. It's a mental patient in Green Bay.

A mental patient in Green Bay tells police that he killed a man in Racine, cut the victim apart, and left him without a face. So they were like, that's pretty close. So they said they didn't think he was a suspect, though, because he, quote, didn't have the intelligence, ability, or source of transportation to commit such a

complex murder. So they were like, he's out, even though he thinks he did it. Now, the bags. They finally found a match for the bags okay uh burley elementary school they said that they uh three bags were identical in physical appearance size shape thickness consistency all that sort of things um they said that uh an agent reported he personally spoke to a salesman for the Frontier Bag Company of Grandview, Missouri. Spoke to Craig Cummings, the salesman for the Frontier Bag Company at a Grandview.

Is this Craig down in Grandview? All right, I got some bag questions for you. Someone has, someone, that's their company. That's amazing. Someone makes a living off that. Cool, good for them. And they said he's the salesperson. He sold those bags and mentioned of yellow plastic bags to the entire state of wisconsin was his personal sale of bags to that elementary school on a in october of 1989 you son of a bitch so yeah you bastard so finally they have nothing except that bags were sold to

an elementary school six months ago that's all they have to go on a guy way down the road by a guy in missouri who has nothing who sells bags that's why you know so finally somebody comes forward there's a break in the case when a man named sherwin byer comes forward on august the 8th so this is over a month later month and a half later, he comes forward. He says that a neighbor of his admitted to him that he was responsible for Jim Madden's death. He said that this guy told Sherwin-Beyer that Jim Madden was soliciting at the house when they started talking. This neighbor started talking to Madden and figured out that they had a mutual interest in guns. That's what the neighbor told him. So now the neighbor, apparently he goes over and talks to the guy's name is Joaquin Dressler.

He's 42 years old. He goes by Joe. So Joe Dressler, D-R-E-S-S-L-E-R. Sorry. D-R-E-S-S-L-E-R, sorry, D-R-E-S-S-L-E-R. He apparently started weeping and talking of suicide, saying that he accidentally killed James M. Madden and dumped. Okay, here's where it gets weird. I accidentally killed him.

We're fucking around with guns. I killed him, shot him in the head, and said, shit, now what do I do? I killed him, shot him in the head, and said, shit, now what do I do? I know I will get a hammer, use the claw side to crack his skull open like the fucking monkey brains in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Then I will take his brain out because I got to get rid of that because there's a bullet in there. That's what it was shot, right. And I'm going to put it where, Jimmy? Up my ass.

Where? In the garbage disposal. Okay. I am going to imagine. Okay. Imagine how I'm getting nauseous thinking about this. That is so gross. Stuffing a human brain into your garbage disposal until it's all gone. You got to segment that, right?

That you'd have to or push it in there. I mean, i don't know you could anything's possible bill cosby once and i get it but this is in the 60s well before anything uh he said he once flushed an entire woolen top coat down the toilet when he was a kid little jokes of him and his brothers trying to flush different things down the toilet and see what it would take so i mean i don't know lots of macaroni down my my you have to push it get a spoon and i i'm terrified putting noodles in there a brain a whole brain so worried that's gonna back up how do you get a whole he said i accidentally killed and especially if you

accidentally killed somebody is your first thought i gotta got to get that brain out of there. That's a crazy thought to have. Oh, boy, I better crack that skull open and take his brain out. Yeah. And by the way, I own acres and I think it's 17 acres of farmland. I'm going to put it in my garbage disposal. That's where I'm going to put it. What the fuck is that? So he tells the guy that.

Now, this neighbor's got to be, holy shit. Imagine being Sherwin-Beyer and hearing this shit. You're like, what the fuck are that so he tells the guy that now this neighbor's got to be holy shit imagine being sherwin-byer and hearing this shit you're like what the fuck are you talking about i guess the appropriate response is no you didn't that's you're just kidding right right so he's this friend said he's known dressler for 28 years and he said it was this you know he had an emotional confession he He lives near the guy. This Sherwin-Beyer went to the police and gave a, you know, gave a statement. He said, quote, Joe Dressler and I have been friends since I was about 14 years old. I helped him find the property that his house is built on. He knows him that much.

He said that he came over and told Beyer that he wanted to talk to him in private. And then they went into the house and then uh said while they were at the kitchen table dressler said that he was scared and said can i tell you something in confidence oh boy and he so it's buyer said quote joe then said i did it and i said what the fuck are you talking about? He said, I did it. And then Byers said he didn't know what he meant. And then he explained that he shot him by accident and removed his brain. He said the men wept together and then hugged. Okay.

Yeah. He says that one because he has a great weight off his, and the other because he thinks he's next. Yeah, I guess you got to act like you're on his side at that moment in time. You're capable of murder? I got to go take a leak, and then you're going to go call the cops from the other room. But at that moment, you don't act horrified. You go, oh, buddy, how can I help? How are you doing?

What can I do to be on your team right now until you're out of my sight and then I'm not? Can I get on you? Yeah. Better give that to him. I'll clean it for you. Let me load it with some fresh ammo. That stuff in there, it's probably old and I got some fresh stuff. I feel like that's stale. It's a stale.

You got stale ammo. So he said that what happened was that Dressler said he was repairing a lawnmower in his garage when Jim Madden approached and Dressler signed his environmental petition and said he didn't have any money to give him, but they started bullshitting and talking. And he said, quote, during their conversation, Joe said he found out they had a mutual interest in guns. And Dressler said that he and Madden went into the backyard at the Dressler home. Dressler, by the way, is alone because his wife is recovering from surgery in the hospital at this moment and his children are, they have children by the way, we'll get into who he is, are in Florida with relatives. So he's all alone. You know what, a man when his wife and kids are gone, he's going to do some weird shit, but not this weird.

He was working on a lawnmower. His day changed dramatically from working on a lawnmower to pushing a brain down a garbage disposal. Those are two very different things. Your wife's in the hospital. Your kids are in Florida. You should be whacking until it's time to pick her up. That's it. That's all you're doing, man.

Your dick should be sore. It's Joe time. It's finally Joe time. So he said that during their conversation about the guns there, they went in the backyard. Dressler gave Madden a rifle to shoot. So he gave his murder victim a rifle to shoot, which is odd. You don't hear that often in the beginning of a murder tale. Yeah, it's where the victim a very effective weapon to have.

So he said that I gave him a gun, and then he brought a pistol into the yard. This is Dressler. He said, I gave him the rifle, and I had a pistol, and I was walking out. And he said, this is Byer, the neighbor. He said, Joe stated that as he was clearing the chamber, the gun discharged and hit the gentleman in the back of the head and killed him before he hit the ground. So he just plop dead. his wife, Kathleen, the one who's recovering from surgery, and his attorney already know,

quote, the gruesome details about the death. He said he went and told people, and then he said he told deputies, quote, to destroy the evidence, he cut out the brain and put it down the garbage disposal, and it went into the septic tank. And he says that he wanted to eliminate traces of the hollow point bullet that went into his skull he uh also uh they had gone to his house by the way the police had gone to dressler's house already because he's in the area yeah so dressler's telling buyer that the police had seized from his house a quote collection of homosexual videotapes. Why would they have, what? They said he also confiscated, the cops confiscated,

photographs of dead people that Dressler collected from news magazines and other sources. What's with this fucking guy? If ever there's any pictures of dead people, he saves them. And he has, like, a collection of dead people pictures. They said also that, he said that the has like a collection of dead people pictures um they said also that he said that the police found a piece of paper bearing madden's name in his tanning booth he's got a tanning booth in his garage this guy he's he knows about the wisconsin paste and he's not

going to have it he's got a tanning booth and homosexual materials as a married man of children. Quote, unquote, homosexual materials. So he said that he asked his neighbor to keep this admission secret. He said, please don't tell anyone. He said, of course not. And that's when they hugged and wept. Not about the murder, about my tanning bed. My tan, it's very sad.

I have a tanning bed. I don't want my friends to know. Don't tell anybody about that. He said that he asked him, then asked him for a gun. Dressler asked his neighbor for a gun so he could kill himself. He's like, because the cops took my guns. They took everything. He goes, so can I kill myself? Can you give me a gun?

He said he didn't supply the weapon. He said, no, I can't give you. Yeah, I'm not going to let you do that. I'm going to give a murderer a murder weapon? Yeah. Can I have a gun? And then he kills me after he just told me he murdered somebody. I'm going to hang on to all my deadly weapons for now.

At least until you leave the property. So they said it was about a 30-minute visit. He did all this in a half hour. That's a big half. That is a lot in a half hour to unleash all of that on somebody. I've unloaded way less to my therapist in an hour. Yeah, a half hours, nothing. He just does, wow.

It's incredible. Sometimes the town stuff takes us a half hour. So he said about two days later, deputies used a warrant to come in, and that's when they ended up arresting Dressler. And this is after that buyer went to the police and said that he, you know, I got to clear my conscious here, my conscience. And the police officer said, quote, He didn't expect his neighbor to tell. But Buyer finally told the authorities he felt he was doing the right thing for the victim and his family.

Yeah, the dude. I don't want anyone living next to me that's capable of taking a brain out and putting it down the garbage disposal. Forget about the victim. Think about yourself, man. No shit. Do this entirely selfishly in your own safety. No shit. So they said that it was the tip from the neighbor that got an arrest in the case.

The police guy said, it's something that we just plain didn't know before and it brought everything together. It breaks the case. So who the fuck is Joaquin Joe Dressler here? I'd love to know. He is an elevator repairman, which is, you don't hear that job very often, do you? That's not something.

I think about, what, one per city works probably? I imagine it's a pretty solid job. They got a break all the time. There's so many elevators. It's probably good money in that, Jimmy. Jimmy. See, this is one of those things. It's one of those things where every comedian should have a rule.

it's one of those things where we every comedian should have a rule and that is those first two thoughts that pop in your head ignore those those are the low hangers of course it is it's a dumb joke jimmy will pick a piece of fruit up off the ground that has fallen from the tree and i will happily throw it and throw it right at something. And I love you for it. I fucking love it. That's good. I don't give a shit. Good work for you. So anyway, he is born in Berlin, Germany.

Dressler. Oh, which is that that wasn't born in America. His family came to the United States in 1955 when he was seven. So, yeah, he said that his wife said he's a naturalized citizen and everything like that. He was in the army in the late 60s and early 70s. I don't know if he was a nom or what here. Yeah. I mean, could have been.

Not a lot of. Yeah. Most of the people in the army during that time were over there at some point, unless they were. Unless their daddy was a fucking congressman or something. I don't know how well she would get out of that. He worked in a, uh, in a photo lab as part of a military intelligence assignment at one point developing pictures for military intelligence. Maybe that's how he got into pictures of dead bodies.

James. Jesus. Oh God god can you imagine that i was in the military what'd you do worked in the photo mat worked in the photo lab a lot of pictures of officers and their families on vacation stuff like that you know me and a guy at walmart have the same amount of credit credentials in the military guys fucking around in the mess hall you know food fights real real bloodthirsty shit so uh she said that her husband uh obviously joe here told her he was assigned to bases in baltimore germany and korea during his tour of duty those are three very different places entirely yeah baltimore germany kore, Korea. That's all of it.

That's a lot of different things. So... Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,

her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California,

Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They met in 1976, Kathleen, his wife, and Joe. This is shortly before Joe's mom died of cancer. So it's kind of how whatever. And then she said that they dated and their first date was on March 27th, 1976. She still remembers. Wow. And several months later later they began living together in his duplex she moved into his place they got married in september 76 so holy shit from meeting to marriage in six months boom boom boom joe he doesn't fuck around no when he wants to take your brain out and put it down the disposal it's as good as in the septic tank. So they married, like I said, September 76. They lived in Raymond, Wisconsin since 1979.

They designed their home in Raymond and they moved out there. It's a 17 acre property where they built a house on it in 1979. He worked as a repairman for several elevator companies during their marriage. They have two children. This guy's a father. They have a daughter, Joanne, born in 83, and a son, Ricky, born in 84. So yeah, nice family life. He's five years. He got married and had kids. Oh yeah, he got married, had kids, built a house. He just settled right down. Settled right on down. From single to with kids. That's it.

Boom. And a house and a farm and everything else. Big property. It's a lot. He went from punk rock to John Mellencamp in fucking five years. Bang. He said, quote, she said, Kathleen Dressler, the wife, quote, Joe was the best father. He never spanked them and rarely even yelled at them.

She said, you know, she loves her husband. Even later on when they're in court, she kisses him during the proceedings and all that. And then there's been no then they said you can't have any contact. So it's, yes, 16 and a half acres. Life has been idyllic out there. Most of it's wooded. Six acres is rented to a man who cultivates soybeans. Okay.

So he cleared out some soybean area. And there's a big, huge, lengthy driveway that skirts the bean field on its way to the house which is tucked behind trees and brush you can't really see the house that well long driveway though which is odd that madden would have come up that driveway um so they live there the kids go to the lutheran school in hale's corners the next door neighbor said that this isn't the one that told on him a different next door neighbor said that uh he once invited dressler to attend the North Cape Lutheran Church. But Dressler said, no, I'm an atheist. So he's an atheist who sends his kids to the Lutheran school in town.

That's mom's choice, obviously. Yeah. Which in the Northeast, there's plenty of atheists. Atheists send their kids to Catholic school, too, just because they're good schools. You know, they don't fucking care. So they said most people in the area said the Dresslers, they were friendly, but not over-friendly. Like, they didn't associate with the neighbors very much. One man who lives across the road from him said that he'd never even met Joe.

He said that they kept to themselves more or less to their own family. So he's been employed recently by the Northwestern elevator company in Milwaukee. That's his, that's where he's working. And, um, yeah,

he said that he has been working, uh, may since may 89 for the Northwestern elevator repair company, but he was not at work the day uh the the day that this all happened the murder happened a company supervisor said on friday he requested a week's vacation so he took off on thursday with his wife in the hospital he's home alone he's like i'm taking a full whacking day yeah whacking it all day i got my my gay porn stash this is gonna be it is party time and then the next day he's like i got a lot of work to do so they said on friday he requested

a week's vacation so the day after the murder he was like i'm gonna take a week off i'm using some pto have a good one bye i had a nice day i think i want five more i think I want five more. I think I need five more. And the supervisor said he hadn't been to work all week. And they said that he previously had worked at Otis Elevator, which you always see that. That's a very popular one. Yeah. Absolutely. Everywhere in hotels and shit. So they said that Dressler's home became the focus because it was Madden's last known location.

And they linked the residence with an unusual plastic garbage bag containing parts. We'll get to the bags in a minute. Dressler's wife, Kathleen, told deputies on July 5th, this is before the head even was found, that she had purchased that type of garbage bag in a fundraising activity for the Brookfield School, which is where they found that's the connection. So she said she did that. She said that the bags of that type had been in her home, but not for a long time. She's like, we had those months ago, but obviously I stole some from the clearly if

I get bags for the school through a charity thing, I'm going to steal a couple bags. Don't get me wrong here. I'm going to peel a few off the top. I'm going to wet my beak in bags. do you want i paid for mine yeah i mean what are you doing here so the deputies said they were told by kathleen that her husband had quote numerous videotapes of what she believed to be actual murder torture and mutilation and that he also has a complete set of the three videotapes the faces of death remember those i do that was like when you mentioned the hammer on the monkey's head that's the first movie that came to my head and that's what she describes as what she's seen as

the tape too is that what we've all remember from a kid being hearing i never saw that shit because i'm just not into gory stuff don't watch it i'm not i'm not it was never and i never even really liked horror movies i'm just not into it so there was always i love horror movies and i rented it from blockbuster blockbuster had oh yeah absolutely it was on you could rent it anybody could rent it and they would rent to kids back then and everything and had to fast forward because it's disgusting it's so uncomfortable it's not okay it was always the the kid that was telling you in detail about the faces of death tape that he rented was always like a kid we were like he's a mess this kid he's like 11 he already smokes a pack and a half of marlboro reds a day he's like fuck dude your life is crazy huh yeah so he's got all of this stuff.

She said, Kathleen, that her marriage had been improving during 1990. It's been going great this year. And that ever since she's been hospitalized on and off, that Joe's been real attentive to her. There had been some bits of trouble, mainly because he's an alcoholic. Also, that's the other problem he has. Alcoholic to the point that required hospitalization twice this year or in the last year and a half. And that she said he, quote, often spent time in the basement working at a home computer and secretly drinking. Yeah, he's drinking and whacking off in the basement.

He's doing. Yeah doing yeah well it's 1989 so he's okay yeah he's looking at his looking at his fucking printouts whatever so neighbors of his gilbert and shirley piccola said they knew about dressler's problems with alcohol uh so did a co-worker of his uh both his co-worker and his co-worker's wife. But they all said that his drinking didn't cause problems or obnoxious behavior. He wasn't a mean or angry drunk or anything like that. He didn't come up and he was just would drink a lot by himself. And that was that. Like, he didn't really. Feels like he's repressing some emotions with that. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. A little bit of emotional repressment here.

Certainly self-medication and trying to cope with something. Something he's not wanting the world to know. They said that he's more likely to fall asleep than to lash out or anything like that. He's just that kind of guy. This co-worker and his wife said they regularly were dinner guests at the Dressler home where they said he was a great chef, great cook. They said nobody ever left there wanting anything. You'd leave there and, boy, what a great night, what a great meal. Joe really cooked it up.

So many of his friends mentioned his willingness to help with their chores and projects. They said he allowed others to enter his garage at their, at his home, at their pleasure. They, anybody could come and borrow tools or materials from him. No questions asked. Just leave him a note.

Hey, got your stuff. His coworker said that he was at Dressler's home as often as five times a week and dined with the Dressler's almost every Thursday night. Wow. And he said, Dressler loaned him tools and helped him out with how to fix things and told him how to use them and shit.

Another witness, though, Patricia Brown, she said that she said that she had some misgivings about Dressler as early as July 2nd, which is only a few days after the murder. She said Dressler left a telephone message at her house that day, said, quote, he wanted to know what was going on with police in the neighborhood. He'd been out of town for five, six days, and I didn't believe that was true. And she said that she had seen lights on in his home on the night of June 27th and had heard gunshots from his yard during the afternoon. She said gunshots could frequently be heard coming from his house,

so she didn't care. She's always out back shooting on his acreage there. She did say, though, she doesn't like him because she said she has suspected him of killing her family dog. What? She said, our dog has been missing since March 13th, 1990. Our dog was not prone to wandering. Our dog was half blind and really quite stupid.

Jesus Christ. Okay. Like that dog lady? She said an encounter with one of Dressler's children and his wife, Kathleen, indicated Dressler may have harmed the dog, according to Brown. She said she asked if they had seen the dog. She said Kathleen Dressler replied, quote, no, I didn't even know you had a dog. And then the child said, yes, you did, Mom. That's the dog that Dad hated.

Oh, God. You rat bastard. He said, yes, you did, Mom. That's the dog Dad hated. That's the dog Dad shh. And then he shot, and then they... She said that the child's talk was quickly cut off by Kathleen. God damn it.

Oh, that's fucking hilarious. Kids are such snitches. You little fucker. God damn you. So what in ball's sake happened to fucking poor Jim here? I would love to know let's find out because it's it's horrific man so he went uh that night he went and ate some pizza his last meal was some pizza at the root river inn okay with some co-workers that's that on uh waukesha

road and highway u in raymond He ate about 4 o'clock. And then after that, he was driven to Highway 45 and Five Mile Road and dropped off. Last seen 7.30 p.m. at the home of Marilyn and Glenn Meyer at 12114 Five Mile Road in Raymond. They said the next stop was, he was going eastbound and the next stop would have been Dressler's home. Didn't come back and meet his associates at 9 p.m. and we know where he was found. So the deputies and the physicians

in the autopsy that examined the body found evidence that handcuffs had been used to bind his wrists. Handcuffs may have been, once they get in there, they believe they were attached to an electrical hoist. He's got a fucking engine hoist

in his garage. They think that he hung, this is fucking horrible, the arms and hands indicated he had been hoisted off the ground by his wrist. Ouch. They found, at that point,

they also think that at some point he was turned upside down, hung upside down from the hoist, and they believe that at some point he took a hammer and removed the brain while he was hanging upside down. Oh, my God. And they believe that he was dismembered

while suspended in the air. Oh, my God. And they believe that he was dismembered while suspended in the air. Oh, dear Lord. Like a butcher would cut a hunk of meat that's hanging in the freezer. That's what he did, basically, with this poor guy. They said a forensic anthropologist said that a knife was probably used to decapitate Madden. In the reports, they also said that the top of the skull was removed with a hammer and the brain was removed a cut between the thumb and index finger on madden's left hand was probably suffered as a defensive wound so he what he was being stabbed and then he

so he was torturing him he was he hung him upside down and was stabbing him fucking with him while this guy was trying to defend himself and then shot him in the head jesus while his arms and legs were bound so he must have bound his arms after he uh cut himself i would assume because you know if he was bound it would be hard to unless he was upside down and with his hands together trying to knock you know what i mean yeah yeah they said this was suffered be uh when madden grabbed a sharp object possibly in self-defense they said it's a cutting type injury probably the result of grasping a sharp object grabbing at the knife that someone's stabbing you

with other skin injuries and evidence of bleeding on madden's neck right wrist and ankles indicated he'd been bound most likely with a rope before his death. They said that the cause of death would have been a gunshot wound to the back of the head. But he had been stabbed near the heart. And he probably, they believe, had his throat cut as well. So he was dying no matter what. And then having everything removed, they said very sharp cutting instruments were used to neatly dissect his heart, liver. They took his heart out. I said bladder.

I meant heart. Heart, liver, and one kidney. Oh, my God. Dissected. Not messy. Yeah. Took it out like a – fuck, that's disgusting. Why would you want –

Well, that's also something that usually you don't – on the first try that you can't do that very well. Yeah. Well, he does have a lot of time, though. That's the thing. He's got time and space. There's nobody coming home. So he's got that. They said that razor like tools were used to also cut between the neck bones to remove the head.

He didn't hock it off with a big axe or something. This was a precise a precise uh thing here and also something a very sharp something was used to remove his penis as well so he's got his dick off and did all his shit so his skull was crushed by the way also later on um this they said that all their organs were removed probably before his arms and legs were cut off. So I guess that's good. Yeah, this is fucking horrible. And his brain was put in the garbage disposal. So this is as brutal as it gets.

They yeah, they made stops at his place of employment. They were following him when they were at the day they took him in. They followed him around a little bit. They were following him when they arrived. The day they took him in, they followed him around a little bit. They were investigating him, Dressler. They said that in the morning he drove into Milwaukee County where he made stops at his job, then made stops at what they said, quote, several Milwaukee apartment buildings. Don't know what the fuck he's doing there. Then he went to a liquor store because he's an alcoholic. Then he went to a public viewing area at Mitchell International Airport.

So he just sat out, watched the planes take off and got drunk. That was what he was planned for the day was. So they stopped his car during the afternoon on Highway U near a hardware store. He was taken to the sheriff's substation there. And this is at the same time they're conducting a search on his property, which continues into the next day. In the interview, he said he didn't have any yellow garbage bags. But then later he said that someone could have taken that type of bag from his garage when he drove to the hardware store to get a replacement part for his garden tractor. So he's like, I do have those.

Someone could have stole it from my garage because I went out for a minute that day. I don't have them, but I used to. But I used to, and maybe someone stole them to do this with. He said, he told deputies, I didn't kill Madden. And he said that there's a lot of meat in my home because they said, there's a lot of meat in your freezer. You have a freezer with a bunch of meat

and there's a bunch of organs missing. He stated that any liver that may be in his freezer was at least two years old and would be sliced approximately an inch thick from a meat service he's like it's you're looking for his liver it's not in my freezer they uh yeah so they're like what the fuck is going on with this guy here um they send the SWAT team uh by the way initially to clear everything out they said we told the neighbors to clear out we're going to conduct a SWAT operation okay now when they took him in initially and he said somebody might have stole my garbage bags they let him go after that because all they had taken from his house they did an initial search and found pornography and things like that,

and they left, but they didn't find the garbage bags or any hardcore evidence yet, and anything they had, they had to test, so they couldn't hold him, so they had to let him go. So they let him go. Then when they went in to really do the big search, they brought the SWAT team. They said that he was found in his bedroom, was maybe sleeping, and he didn't put up any kind of fight or anything like that. They said the SWAT team was used just in case of some kind of emergency

or if he tried to kill himself or some shit like that. Oh, boy. 90% of the search concentrated on the house itself, but they also went into the foliage and the bean fields and all that kind of shit. They pumped the sludge from the septic tank. Oh, God. They have to go through the the sludge from the septic tank oh god they have to go through

the contents of this man's septic tank gross to try to find brain parts i don't know what the gross part about that is but that's all the grossest thing i've ever heard in my goddamn life through gross to get to gross to get to oh yay i brain. Is that the is that the. Wow. Winner winner there because I found. Wow. They said that they were it was over 24 hours this took to go through everything. They said that our investigation was leading us in this direction and a citizen tip just hastened it. I believe we would have reached the same conclusion eventually. OK. Yeah. OK. Now. just hastened it i believe we would have reached the same conclusion eventually okay yeah okay now this is self-grandiose yeah i mean we're on the trail i mean it's like someone can't open a

pickle jar they hand it to you you open it and they're like i mean we loosened it up for you i loosened it and then you got it you popped it right off that's what they just said there we had it nice and loose and then he just came and we found the body we'd have found out where it came from we would have figured out who it was eventually so the during the first search they did find blood in his home and in all of his vehicles what's a lucky son of a bitch he said he recently cut his foot. So he just did an OJ. I cut my hand on a glass. I don't know. He recently cut his foot.

I cut barefoot a lot. Yeah, you know how it is. So they confirmed that they end up during the July 30th search. They find yellow garbage bags. They look for weapons, body parts, and clothes that belong to Madden is what they're looking for. They recovered packaged meat from a freezer that they didn't know what the fuck it was. Knives, scissors, guns, ammo, hacksaws, blades, chisels, things with bloodstains on them, ropes, handcuffs, pornographic photos, magazines, books, and videos.

This is what they're- It's like an M&M song. And it's taking place on 8 Mile. So what do you want? That seriously sounds like an M&M line. Freezer knives, scissors, guns, ammunition, hacksaw, blades and chisels, possible blood stains, ropes and handcuffs, pornographic photos, magazines, books and videos, seized syringes, saws, pornographic records, computer discs and other audio recordings, Syringes, saws, pornographic records, computer discs, and other audio recordings.

Plastic material, hair, bones, newspapers, miscellaneous items, shit from a tanning booth. This is the list. This is the list. It is. You can make it work. That's the next cipher right there. I feel like he can make this work. He can make all of that rhyme. Yeah.

like he could make this work he can make all of that rhyme yeah see syringes saws pornographic records there's a lot in there it's amazing computer disc recordings and other plastics hair and materials bones and newspapers miscellaneous items he could make that work for sure he could make it work i think so throw mom's spaghetti in there and it's it's that's what it is he's got a tanning booth that he owned the whole deal my snare it's fucking it is an m&m so they said that the extensive collection is possible evidence everything's going undergoing testing and all that sort of thing uh blood samples also taken from everything um they took the garbage disposal like we said searching everything like that um they said that the it's they're going to take

all the contents of the septic tank to the state crime laboratory to a bunch of people who'll be real thankful to get a gonna hold that oh an entire truck full of shit thank you you brought me a shit truck appreciate that don't worry we put it in yellow trash bags yeah it's great just go through it here oh disgusting they confiscated 300 items though so you could definitely make an eminem song out of 300 items if i had the full list faces of death all the magazine names and the porn names and shit make it all rhyme i guarantee it you give me a night tomorrow i'll have that shit written we'll do it we'll do it together we'll bust parts back and forth like fucking raekwon and ghost it'll be terrific just a laundry list of murder shit just a whole list of murder shit and gay porn

murder shit and gay porn crotch is bulging his chest is waxed up bulging hard okay so it's incredible uh yeah So they sift through all this shit. The sewage. Jesus Christ. They also including the truck full of sewage, a van full of other items is what they also got. What they said. They say he's definitely the prime suspect at this point. Obviously, the Ivan Oski guy, the investigator says, I can say it has nothing to do with cults and it had nothing to do with Satanism for sure.

OK, no, definitely not. In the garage, they found Madden's name taped inside a tanning bed. So like it was a piece of tape with the name Jim Madden written on it inside of his tanning bed in his garage. That's when they confiscated the electric hoist and all that kind of shit. They said that a lot of the stuff they found had been found in hiding places. They said, quote, we also discovered a briefcase,

a briefcase or container filled with personal items, including photographs of people who appear to be dead. He was collecting also news articles about this Madden's death. So he was collecting also news articles about this madden's death so he was collecting articles about the death and he was he was filing it away with his pictures of dead people in a hidden place he's a sociopath this is really this is really fucking gross man um so uh yeah also all that shit anyway so they said they called it a blueprint for murder and mutilation found in his collect. This is, they said, quote, and this is the, what the prosecutors are saying, quote, a

blueprint for murder and mutilation was found in Dressler's collection of male pornography videotapes of death and torture and literature about homicide investigations and autopsies. death and torture and literature about homicide investigations and autopsies. Well, take out the death and torture and the male pornography. And I'm crazy, too, because I have tons of literature about homicide investigations and autopsies. You know how much weird shit I have saved on my computer that I might need someday? It's crazy. Absolutely insane.

Just right out there in the lobby, there is a dildo right on the shelf james you could make an m&m song out of what i got on my computer and in the lobby of our fucking studio here in new york there's a section cup dildo that was sent to us right there it's right there you look like a psychopath i think we put a cape on it too somebody's okay there's all sorts of shit in here weird stuff weird morbid shit that people send us that they take time to make and is really cool so we put it up like real like dark shit with like syringes and like skulls and knives and shit in it we're like hey fuck it we'll put it up they took the time why not so um they charge him with first degree intentional homicide. He is being held on $250,000 cash bond he needs.

So that's a lot. That's a lot. So they said that, wow, they announced this all publicly of all the organs and all that shit that they did and the sexual stuff. And they said after that, quote quote there are still body parts missing never found his dick jimmy oh no way never found his dick and balls those are never found never accounted for didn't say what he did with them nothing we don't know what he did by the way with the organs themselves because we don't know did he eat them we have no fucking idea they weren't in his house they weren't in anything and they they didn't he didn't put that down the garbage disposal so

there's a dick a heart a liver and one kidney unaccounted for here unbelievable i i don't know if he ate them or not jimmy and i'm really grossed out by thinking about the fact that he might be you think that's the logical conclusion, right? Those are all things that you can eat. Unless he just threw them in the garbage and they got taken away by the... I feel like if you're doing all this, you're not going to throw a dick away.

No. You're going to do something with it. So it's always bad when you hear there are still body parts missing. That's not good. Why are the bodies... Why is the body in parts? Yeah.

Why are they missing? The penis is always... Or any sort of genitalia is taken for a specific reason. It's not, you know what I mean? You don't take it and throw it aside like you're weeding your garden. Right. You know what I mean? No, there's a, let me throw that off. They don't need that.

It's got a deep root to it. It's not like the stem of the carrots. You know what I mean? No. You don't just remove that and throw it out. It's not just the top of the carrots. You know what I mean? You don't just remove that and throw it out. It's not just the top of the asparagus. Right.

Sort of the bottom, I guess. The bottom, yeah. Yeah, I guess it would be. But for some reason, when I think about when I eat them, it's top. Yeah, it seems like that should be where the root is, the delicious part. Yeah. It's when you eat them, you cut it off the top. So anyway, so in court, by way this is this is directly from like affidavits from court documents and it's un-fucking-real they this is a man who went to

college in law school said this in front of other people who went to college in law school in public okay quote in these pictures that he collected you will see that he liked bare chests, bathing suits and what I'm going to call, for lack of a more sensitive term, pictures of men with bulges in their pants. This was all part of one collection. Obviously, it's not an art gallery. Obviously, it's the it's the gay porn collection. Here it is. Oh, what are the seasons? Collection's collections.

Amazing. Obviously, his friends didn't know about and weren't familiar with these things. It provides a motive for an otherwise inexplicable and unexplainable event. Who would do this and why? A man who's fascinated by this sort of thing, but all outward appearances is Mr. Neighbor, Husband, and Father. That's who would do it. Saying he's hiding it and ashamed of it. And that's what would make him lash out at it. So another thing they find is in a safe deposit box opened by Kathleen Dressler after the murder took place, a week later, in a safe deposit box in the bank, they find Jim Madden's driver's license, checks, jewelry, and other personal effects.

What the shit, Kathleen? She was the one that opened it. By the way, by this point, he's arrested. A month later, she's already moved to Florida. Wants no fucking part of this. Yeah. But she says she supports him. She shows up for court and all that kind of shit. I don't know

if she's just getting her kids out of there. She said that she thought investigators were crazy when they searched her home for evidence. She said... It's all in the bank. She said, yeah, it's all at the bank. It's not here. I put it in the safe deposit box. You'll never find it. She said, I told them

it was silly. It didn't make any sense what they were doing. This is ridiculous. And she said that she went hysterical when they appeared at her home, showed a search warrant and said that he was a suspect in a slaying. hidden contrary to the prosecutor said quote this i don't even okay we've heard a lot of crazy shit in this episode up to this point right it's been wild you want to hear you want to put the cherry on top of it all just in terms of come on kathleen bring it home quote friends neighbors and relatives regularly borrowed the couple's pornography materials what quote they knew where to come in and get it what the what what do you have a fucking old-time video store with those saloon doors in the back that you go through like the rent what are you talking about what friends neighbors and relatives just pop by grandma brought back uh she brought back bulges and bear chests that one she brought that

back for you but our neighbor across the street he said his wife was really looking for a good chicks with dick so i i found that in your selection too because it's 1990 that's what they call it so there you go what are you talking about nobody's pornography is just open to everyone that knows them and in a place where people i just go over and borrow porn from joe all the time no one does that mark down our nephew bobby for six weeks of late fees he's he has not brought back lactating mamas yet and i am pissed i'm upset about it friends relatives and neighbors just come by they it was unlocked james they know where to get it they just come in they know where to they know where to come and get it she says that's a quote they know where to come and get it you got a weird house kathleen

how do you bring that up to people hey i don't know if you're into like hardcore pornography or not, but if so, and you're in the neighborhood, I got a hell of a collection. You're just welcome to it anytime you need. Anytime you want. Relatives? Neighbors? Who brings that up? How do you bring that up, Jimmy? Careful, by the way, because sometimes there's some super gay porn in there. If you're not into that thing yeah if you're not into that thing it's on the top seven shelves it's a whole closet i had a

friend one time or not one time but i had this friend who i went to his house and he was like he lived with his parents still it was like after college and all that sort of shit and i went to his house and he's like you got to take some porn home with you man and i was like what are you talking about and he opens some of this he opens his closet and he goes i just can't have this much here it's just not right he had fucking moving boxes full of dvds this guy would go on ebay and buy lots of them and i don't mean buy a lot he would buy what's called lots where you buy like 500 300 dvds at a time you don't know exactly what you're getting but you're just getting a mixture of shit and giant box guy has to sell can you can have it

all he had thousands of dvds in here and he's like he just started taking like handfuls he's like just take these with you and i'm like i wear i'm not i didn't bring a suitcase with me to your house i'm not gonna just walk around with these in my fucking car all loosey-goosey in the front seat take all your cds out of that that uh zipper pouch put these in there it's if i get in an accident it's gonna look like porno confetti is coming out of my car it's fucking ah it'll be embarrassing so friends neighbors relatives regularly borrowed they knew where to get it okay she said also that although her husband was troubled by alcoholism throughout their marriage she considered him quote the best father for their two children besides the dismemberment she said even though in addition to his weird

stuff that he does he also knew that she she knew that he collected such things about literature about nazi germany which that that can go both ways because i like history so yeah i've seen a lot of shit on all that stuff but i'm not like yeah i'm gonna put my fucking i'm gonna put my art my army helmet on my nazi my german army helmet i'm gonna read this book about hitler it's something like that so it depends on how you're looking at it she said a lot of literature about nazi germany the holocaust and a book depicting injuries and attacks on people she said that uh he also kept a hidden briefcase filled with what she called male pornography, photographs of dead people and information about autopsies and death investigations. Like we said, she said she never witnessed even a hint of violence in her husband.

She said his nonviolent ways could be seen in his treatment of their daughter and son. She said he disciplined their children by having them sit quietly in chairs for a short period of time. Yeah, it's better than being hoisted from the ceiling in the garage, I guess. He disciplined their children by having them sit quietly in chairs for a short period of time. Yeah. It's better than being hoisted from the ceiling in the garage, I guess. Well, I guess if you sit kids in a chair for some period of time, at least you got time to go whack it to whatever the fuck weird shit you got down there. And they're not going to walk in on it. Right. She said he was the best father.

He never spanked them and rarely yelled at them. When they were naughty, he put the kids in timeout chairs. Naughty? No, he's naughty. Unless you're Santa Claus or a dominatrix. I don't want to hear the word naughty coming out of you. It doesn't belong. And when the library of porn that she has in her house exists, she doesn't get to use that word anymore.

I'm happy that you said library, too, because much like a library, it was apparently shelved and open to the public you just come and borrow it it was a lot that's a literally a library of porn actual library the actual one she said that she had bought she brought home rubber gloves allegedly linked to the madden dismemberment she said quote i thought they'd be good for gardening and canning okay dismembering, apparently. Pornography was very common, according to her. She said that visitors would often view adult videotapes and that her friends and neighbors and relatives would just regularly borrow shit. No problem at all. Ridiculous.

She said, all the blood stuff in my house? Easy explanation. Quote, Joe fell in the basement and hurt his foot. There was quite a bit of bleeding. She said also that he has a chronic skin condition, which results in quite a bit of blood in the home from time to time. He leaks. It's a,

it's a condition where it just opens up and blood spurts out. It's a super rare condition. He's got leaky capillaries. That's all. You know how it is. He's got these surface veins. It's a very rare condition. She said, although he argued, although that she said, wow, Dressler thoroughly cleaned the home after the death to eliminate evidence. But Kathleen said they cleaned the home together.

Okay. She said, quote, I went on the cleaning binge, not him. She was like like he didn't want to clean i just wanted i got home from the hospital and i wanted to clean everything up she she said she told a friend that her husband was cleaning everything though that was a separate thing where she said she was talking to her friend like all of a sudden joe's like got a cleaning fucking he's got a broom up his ass he's running around this place cleaning this is not like mickey mouse and fantasia it's fantastic fantastic. Yeah. He said, quote,

we both cleaned the living room to pick up the stains off the carpeting from the dog. She said she had a greyhound that got very sick and died in July of 1990 at the same time. So she said that was maybe some stains. She told investigators that the yellow plastic bags had been in the home. Similar, obviously, those are the bags they found. Now, a chemist with mobile oil testified that a yellow plastic kite tail at the home was similar to the bags bought by Dressler and the bags used to wrap Madden's body. I don't know what difference that makes.

She testifies that she was unaware of what is called by the court, once we do some investigation, of her husband's, quote, homosexual liaisons in the basement. Unaware of that. He's having some hookups here. A police officer said that,

this is one of the investigators, he and Joe Dressler here drove to a North Cape store where Dressler bought two cups of coffee. This is before this is this is when they're searching the house, but haven't arrested him yet. They drank coffee while sitting in a car in Dressler's driveway. He wanted to know if we had anything from the search. He wanted to know how long the search warrant was going to take.

So he said that they talked about traveling. This is the detective and Joe, their mutual interest in Germany, where Dressler was born and where Rohnert was stationed in the U.S. Army. This is that's the cop. They said the conversation was more small talk. And then he said the cop said he asked Dressler if he had written J. Madden and the number 27 on the wall of the tanning booth in his basement. And they said that they found it during the first search. And he said he absolutely didn't write that.

Where that must have just popped up out of nowhere. Yeah. Then when they asked him about something else, he said, oh, maybe I did. I don't know. It isn't every day when something like this happens in the neighborhood. So I'm all flustered. I don't know what I wrote. Okay. Wow. it isn't every day when something like this happens in the neighborhood so i'm all flustered i don't know what i wrote okay wow um a murder victim was found and you have his name in your house and you don't know who wrote that wow um so he says i said quote you're not a homosexual

are you joe that's what he asked him and he he said Dressler smiled and replied, yes, I am, but don't tell my wife. Okay. Like kind of in a jokey way. So they said five of the six hidden videotapes were exclusively gay porn, and they were found in different hiding place from the briefcase that was filled with pictures of scantily clad young men, both gay and straight porn, and detective magazines, pictures of dead people, and information about autopsies and death profiles. So he had two separate stashes there. Now, the FBI had a profile saying that he was in his 30s or 40s, white male loner with homosexual tendencies, which is a pretty vague profile.

But he fits it. Nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. He said, we've talked to Mr. Dressler and he did not comment on the crime. He says that their crime laboratory results may even exonerate him. Who knows is what the cop says. No, doesn't help.

So then they find just after this happened 10 days after the killing he had hooked up with somebody at his house okay which is fine by the way we don't give a shit i couldn't fucking care lesbians love us we don't care as as the fucking rapper once said whether you choose to lick pussy or dicks, people throughout the world, it's your pick. That was. Yeah. There you go. So put it in your mouth was the chorus.

So there you go. Now. So right off the bat, we don't give a fuck what people are doing right away. So she said they said that the defense is him as a he's being described as a as a family man there is what they're doing that's the defense and then the prosecution saying he's a dirty dirty he's filthy he's a pornographer he loves cock um they said that uh 10 days after there was an encounter that had striking similarities to what happened to Madden. It was a Milwaukee guy arrived at Dressler's home to look at a car that Dressler was selling.

And Dressler asked him, by the way, would you like to shoot guns? I got a bunch of guns. You want to buck off some shots? So they shot guns together. And then they watched, as what the prosecutor describes homosexual pornography. Yikes. And then they had sexual relations. Oh, whatever that was.

So a gun that they shot was the same weapon, by the way, that he used to shoot men. He's just still using it for target practice. He told the neighbor later on about that gun. Never mind. So what he did was he asked this guy, if the guy he had sex with here, he said, do you like being like bound and handcuffed? Tell you what it will do. It'll be really fun. I'll hang you upside down from this electrical hoist and we'll really have some fun. And the guy was like, that doesn't sound great.

I don't think I want to do that. He Dressler asked him if he, quote, wanted to go for a ride. That's what he asked the guy on his electrical hoist. And yeah, he said that he was to, quote, demonstrate the hoist was powerful enough to lift a human being. So this is fucking crazy so this is the the by the way the girlfriend of the victim jim madden ali winkler she says it's still pretty much disbelief i can hardly accept that i'm not going to talk to him again uh she said that there was no funeral for him there's no funeral he didn't want a funeral so she said she wished she had had a funeral, though, because obviously this still she needs some closer closure.

She said she's been trying to keep busy. She's had bunches of dreams about him and all this sort of thing. She said, I don't break out crying as much as I was. She moved into a new apartment, which is they were planning on moving in together. And she said that she thought that he would really like the apartment, though. And that made her feel a little better about the whole thing so reactions in the cow cow village land out here yeah neighbors said that uh quote here's one this guy is a mu uh raymond municipal judge judge stag judge glenn stag um he says about about dressler quote he's always been a real nice guy

this judge said he was invited to the dressler home with a group of about 10 people earlier in the year to discuss politics what a weird house this is and if you want to borrow any of our pornography when we're done discussing tax issues it's here for the taking on your way out the door after our foreign policy discussion why don't you guys go ahead and grab one for yourself let's do it uh grab whatever you got we got a big selection there's a briefcase over there for the really dirty stuff so this judge said he's very politically motivated saying that dressler's interest was focused on tax issues and uh he this dressler was also a customer

because this municipal judge also owns a junkyard and uh he described Dressler as quote he's intelligent he has a good job in a nice house now Stagg it's funny because they were friends on the outside at least they're in jail at the same time too because stag is being jailed this judge is in jail for failing to clean up his junkyard even after it was ordered by the court his own court that he works for his fucking his court ordered him to stop hoarding and he wouldn't do it he said nope i'm good so uh one of the residents in the neighborhood said quote it boggles your mind that a man who's lived here 12 years is your neighbor that you've talked over the fence with. My Wilson.

Yeah. My very Wilson, he said. They said he trailed off and said, I don't know. It's just like, it's crazy. Another one said, I just don't believe it. If it's him, then I'm glad, too, because then you feel safer. I don't know what the hell that means. I guess that he's caught.

One guy said, right away, after everybody thought the killer couldn't be from around here. So that's all. Everybody thought it was some guy from the area. Yeah, bizarre random murder. They said nobody from the area even suspected this guy. And they said, we're all glad he's arrested. I think everybody will be at ease. Everyone's a little scared around here.

Everyone's a bit more careful. One neighbor said, quote, we sleep with a loaded gun by the bed and my door is locked now. Okay. He said that the night of the disappearance, investigators told, you know, a couple days later they had gone around to the neighbors and it freaked everybody out. He said, though, it gives you peace of mind. If he's the guilty one, I'm glad he's caught. So they said he's described, though, as a pleasant man. One guy, his next door neighbor said he seemed like a nice family man to me.

He's been as good a neighbor as any. As far as I'm concerned, he's a gentleman. Okay. Except for the fact that he dissected a person yeah so the theory is that he's got to see this is what the prosecutors are going to put out in court because they need to have some kind of you know motive to make the jury believe it so they said that he had this secret bothered him the secret that he was actually gay bothered him and that or he was by or what his want of men

bothered him and that he started to feel the heat is what the what the prosecutor said they said that uh you know he was he was growing more and more worried about it and this this just made him snap and now he uh when he gets to jail he's his's there like right away. A relative of his called the lawyer and had to meet him down there. I think Kathleen helped him out. His lawyer says he denied doing this and denies any knowledge of it, and I'm representing him. So there you go. The lawyer said that when they asked him if Dressler killed anyone, the lawyer said, I'm not going to make any comment on that one one way or the other.

I think I'm not going to answer that question. He just described his client as a married father of two children and a quote, normal citizen. Yeah, he's very normal. Don't ask me if he did it because I don't want to say yes and I don't want to say no. Don't make a liar out of me or an asshole. No direct questions. And if you need to borrow some pornography let me tell you where to go i know a place i know very normal very normal pornography though this is nothing weird yeah so 1991 right before the trial this is really weird and awfully coincidental this is about 25 minutes outside milwaukee yeah what happens in the spring to summer of 91 in Milwaukee? Oh, goddammit, is that right? Jeffrey Dahmer gets arrested.

Oh, my god. So before Dahmer's arrested, this guy's the monster of all monsters. He's removing dicks. He basically did what Dahmer did. Basically what he did there. But now Dahmer, do that times 14, and you have- Or more. Or more, and you have a lot of attention goes to Dahmer

and this guy becomes not that much of a big deal anymore. Right now. It was so fast. It was in every paper all over the world. All over. It was constant. Every country. For like fuck I want to say three months it wouldn't go away and it was. And then his trial came up.

Yeah. It was a lot. Every news channel led with it to talk about somebody that knew it was crazy it was and it was also at this point between joe dressler and jeffrey dahmer out of nowhere a huge push for the death penalty in wisconsin begins if we at least got to kill these two don't we jesus christ that makes holy shit can we kill those guys oh yeah dahmer was 17 they found 11 so uh they said that uh quote the dahmer and dressler cases could mean the pressures on for legislators to act this fall they said some people argue that the death penalty isn't a deterrent maybe not but if it's carried out at least that post person won't kill again

that was the that's the quote. Okay. So I'm not going to argue that on this particular episode. Death penalty is not involved here, so who gives a shit? Now, physical evidence comes around, and they're trying to figure that out. They want Joe. Joe pleads not guilty. He's got to undergo neurological testing and mental examinations because they said that he had problems where he had a head injury. And they want to make sure he's OK.

Apparently, I had a chair in jail. No, we had one in about May or June. Eighty nine. He suffered one or more grand mal seizures as a result of the seizures. He was treated in the hospital and prescribed certain medications to prevent seizures. So I don't know. They have to test him to see if he has any brain damage from seizures to make sure that he's competent and all that kind of shit.

So July of 1991 is finally the trial. Allie Winkler, Joe's girlfriend. She sat quietly through the court proceedings and uh she said that the thoughts that ran through her head could not be printed in a newspaper well that's smart she said quote i feel real hate i'd call him an animal but i wouldn't want to insult animals by calling him that so wow yeah she's she just does not like this man now the prosecutor said quote i consider this man as dangerous a criminal as this court will ever see.

I believe we have a very, very sick individual here. I agree. I would agree. Now, this is the part that makes it weird. Okay. It's an easy case. Seems like he admitted it. He's got fucking brain and shit all over the place.

He's got all the guy's personal effects in his safe deposit box pretty open and shut now the state here they have a theory of what they call they coin a term and it's called quote homosexual overkill oh god that's what i'm saying uh this is their definition, not mine. No fucking tweets. Quote, where one one where homosexuals kill in their panic or rage or whatever motivates them. That's pretty vague, man. That's pretty fucking interesting. So they said they have a Dr. Jensen and they said he will testify in the area of pathology, the study of death and forensics.

This is the forensics guy. And they said with the forensic pathology that's bringing the legal part into the investigation and there's literature to support a concept called homosexual overkill. The overkill part of it is the type of injuries you see to the body of James Madden. It's more than is necessary to cause death and suggest some other motivation. And this is consistent while deaths caused by homosexuals in their panic or rage or whatever motivates this type of death. Jesus, that does not sound medical. So somebody has violence and sex in their head wired and that's fucking horrifying.

And that also means I think what they're saying is they panic about the fact that someone's going to find out that they're gay and then they freak out. So, yeah, this weird homosexual overkill is just the weirdest thing. The judge says here, he says, quote, Well, certainly, as the statute defines the terms, there's no there's no crime here. We've all agreed to that. The state hasn't suggested there's a crime in the possession of these materials because they're debating whether or not to admit all the materials found in his house, the pornographic shit, into court.

This is the judge saying there's no crime. We've all agreed to that. He's allowed to have that stuff. The state hasn't suggested there's a crime in the possession of these materials. Other wrongs, I don't know. I guess I don't want to get into litigation whether or not that some of the material constitutes pornographic materials that might be prohibited in terms of its possession, although, again, that's a matter of state and national import, so I'm not making a judgment as to whether

or not those are crimes to possess these materials. I don't think I'm in a position to do that. So that's what he says. I'm not going to parse over what's good porn and bad porn in this case. We're either letting in all the porn or none of the porn. And that's the way it's working here. So they said that testimony on a sex motive would be allowed at trial. They will allow that whole you know the thrill they said

that you know it's a homosexual fucking whatever the hell he's talking about i don't know stupid so the uh dressler's attorney said attempts to paint dressler as a gay man would do nothing but quote taint the jury okay yeah i know i know jimmy i know i know to put that just together like that it's just too much it sounds like it sounds like he's gonna teabag the jury he's gonna he's said now he's gonna lift his balls up and taint them instead yeah that's what it sounds like when you put it that way yeah exactly he says the lawyer says it doesn't prove any element of the case. He says, what kind of idiocy is this? Letting the porn in.

He unsuccessfully sought to suppress pornographic materials there. So the prosecution has to address the accidental shooting aspect of the thing. Now, the comment to Bayer, the neighbor, was that his gun fired accidentally as he cleared the chamber. And their prosecutor said that can't be true because the weapon doesn't discharge in that manner. He says you don't accidentally kill someone and then decide

to dismember them in this way either. So, false and false. Which is what I'm saying. You don't go, oh my god, I shot my friend. Fuck, I better take his brain out and put it down my garbage disposal let me look at that kidney that's crazy you can't clear a semi-automatic weapon and then it just goes off

you pulled the trigger man it operated perfect perfectly what you wanted yeah so the the defense their defense is that alcoholism led him not to the murder. He wasn't drunk and blacked out, didn't know what he's doing.

That's not the case. They're saying alcoholism led him to admit involvement in something he didn't do. He didn't have anything to do with this. What he told his neighbors, total bullshit. Because I was drunk? I was super drunk. to do with this what he told his neighbors total bullshit because i was drunk i was super drunk his lawyer said quote this poor dumb alcoholic got himself in more trouble than he could imagine that is fucking awesome the the lawyer says that dressler joe only learned the details of the death

from the sheriff uh robert roer, and that his drinking disorder led him to include these details in a phony confession. He said statements Dressler made to Bayer included details he hadn't heard from the investigator. That's what the prosecutor says. Those were his own details. And then she talked about the plastic bags and all that. So the defense, though, it's fucking hilarious.

The defense is saying that he's going to show the prosecution's evidence is not very strong and that Dressler was incapable of committing such a horrible crime. He said, quote, You'll find the Joaquin Dressler is that Joaquin Dressler is a nonviolent person. He's a family man. Yeah, he's a he's been married for 15 or 16 years he has two kids he doesn't even spank his kids the crime charged in this case is wholly inconsistent with his character so we should have let btk off too then yeah right what the fuck are you talking about then the defense their whole their big defense is Dahmer did it. Oh, Dahmer drove from Milwaukee here.

He drove 25 miles out. It's not in his usual MO to drive to the farms to do this. He usually just picks them up in bars. But instead, that's their strategy. Dahmer did it. So there's that. Dahmer did it so there's that Dahmer did it and uh the the his lawyer argued that there were quite amazing similarities between the Milwaukee victims and Madden but the judge says there were as many differences as similarities you're out of your

fucking mind you're not allowed to use that as a defense thank you fuck off so their other strategy is uh lack of physical evidence which I think there's plenty of physical evidence. The defense doesn't deny that Dressler's statement to the neighbor, but presented the testimony of an alcohol-related phenomenon called confabulation. This is confabulation. It's an alcohol-related phenomenon of lying. It's weird. No one lies when lying. Okay. It's weird. No one lies when you're drunk. Apparently, yeah.

It's like when you're talking like big fish stories when you're drunk. That's confabulation. Take credit for murders that nobody knows about. All right. The defense expert testified that alcohol abusers like Dressler may invent stories based upon a combination of truth and imagination in order to explain alcohol-induced memory loss. So you would fill that instead of I watched TV and ate a sandwich, you're going to fill that with I took a guy's brain and put it down my garbage disposal. He said that Dressler argued that the story he told by buyer was confabulated from two separate incidents.

First was Keith Erickson. That's the guy who came to his house, shot guns with him and fucked him and didn't want to go on the hoist. That's that guy. So he said that after discovering he and whatever they were in the backyard and all that kind of shit, he says that that the confession to buyer was a figment of his imagination, which combined both that and the fact that the sheriff told him about how this body was found in the skull was broken open and stuff. So he combined because the exact same thing, the Erickson guy that he hooked up with, he was the exact, everything but the death was exactly the same except for the fact that the guy didn't get killed. He invited him in. They shot some guns.

You want to do this? You want to hang out in my garage and fuck and all this shit. So it's the same thing. So they're saying, yeah, it makes a lot of sense here. So he's saying that make up the term confabulation for this. No,

no. Okay. There was a thing, but they just phony put it into alcohol confabulation i guess they're not a confession just making shit up i think and this is thinking it's true i think here so they're saying that yeah he combined that with the knowledge he got from the sheriff yeah and he combined and he made that his hookup put them together and thought he did it because he's such a drunk he's a poor poor alcoholic bum as they put it so they asked um also the defense lawyer asked the criminologist if he had heard of racine county

sightings of people wearing hoods filing into wooded areas he also questioned this criminologist knowledge about ritualistic killing of a dog in a rural barn and suspected satanic activity near Waterford. The cops do indicate that there is a general amount of satanic action in rural areas, is what Jensen said, the doctor. So, yes, but not here. Yeah, it happens, but not here. So, verdict comes in. Jury deliberates for less than two hours, by the way. Ten women, two men, andates for less than two hours by the way 10 women two men and it's

less than two hours and they come back with a not a lot not shocking here guilty of first degree murder and first degree intentional homicide as we might say sentencing comes around now okay the the defense attorney wants sentencing to not be delayed because he says soon as we get it sentenced that's when we can start the appeals process right and we have a great appeal here is what he said so okay he said the wisconsin court of appeals will order a new trial it's gonna happen he said that uh also dressler's wife kathleen also shares that hope he says quote she's planning on being reunited with him after he they after we win the appeal okay we can put our porn collection back together and start over from

square one the the appeal will focus on rulings saying that that allowed jurors to consider his interest in death, torture and homosexuality. He said the judge's rulings on his unusual interests improperly inflamed the jury and prompted the conviction. So he's very upset. Now, the other thing that's funny here is the judge could have instructed the jurors on lesser charges. You can do that, too, such as reckless homicide. And Dressler, though, said no, because you can do that. And your strategy is if we go with just first-degree homicide and they don't think it was a planned-out thing,

they can either convict me and send me away forever or let me go because it was an accident. Whereas if you put in reckless homicide, then they have the option. If they don't really know, they'll figure they'll split the difference and just give you that. So anyway, Dressler said, no, I don't want the lesser charge on their first degree intentional or nothing at all. That's what it's going to be the charging. The judge said, quote, the defendant has the right to make choices regarding his own destiny he certainly did yeah during sentencing the prosecutor said that dressler should never be free to kill again they say it appeared that this defendant had been

preparing himself for the crime for his entire adult life referring to his interests and all the torture and all that shit. They say this monster who committed this monstrous crime. Don't use monster twice in the same sentence. This monster who committed this monstrous crime is a wolf in sheep's clothing. And then says that I attempted to avoid prosecution by representing himself as a typical typical middle class family man. Quote, he knows the difference between good and evil but he embraces evil oh boy now uh the madden family jim's relatives they get to get up and make a statement uh his i believe his father gets up and said he's gone because this man killed him for a thrill I don't quite know where to begin nor where to end,

but only to tell you that our life has been changed. We were happy. We're not happy anymore. Every day we get up and struggle. The mother gets on the stand, Mary Madden, and she says, sentence him to life without parole, quote unquote. I would not be here and I would not speak

unless I was convinced that this man is guilty of the crimes as charged. She said, I love Jim. Our family loved Jim. I don't quite know where to begin and where to end. And she said the same thing as him. Interesting. So now Dressler, he gets to get up in front of the judge. Oh, this should be good.

Now, I guess you can get different. There's different levels. You can get life without. You can get parole after like 15. You know, there's a lot. The judge has a lot of leeway here and shit like that. So this guy gets up and says, this is Dressler, quote, notwithstanding the verdict of this court. I am not guilty of this crime.

I look forward to and I'm anxious to begin the appeal process. I will leave it at that. Oh, Jim. Probably not the greatest thing to say. forward to and i'm anxious to begin the appeal process i will leave it at that oh jim probably not the greatest thing to say to the judge so the judge he uh clears his throat i think before this one let me uh tell you what you're excuse me quote the murder is a murder is the most vicious and aggravating crime that has been this murder is the most vicious and aggravating crime that has been this murder is the most vicious and aggravating crime that has been seen in my history of 20 years in Racine County. It makes other crimes you read about in the paper pale by comparison. He then says you picked a victim who was particularly vulnerable.

He said it was clear he was yours for the taking if you wanted to. And you did. He called what he did quote wantonly vile and inhumane yeah he said i literally searched the dictionary to describe the horrible nature of this crime no word describes the horrible nature of this crime if a judge is saying this to you you are fucked yeah you are double fucked he used the term depravity of mind to describe the murder, saying that Madden was bound, tortured, shot in the head, dissected, dismembered, castrated, and decapitated. More Eminem lyrics.

Yeah. Holy shit. The judge said the crime involved planning and pretty intricate efforts to avoid arrest and prosecution. Quote, by your own statement to a neighbor, you remove the brain of the victim to remove evidence of a gunshot wound to the head. You, sir, may fuck off.

Life without parole. Eat dicks. Line starts that way, motherfucker. Fascinating. Yeah, they obviously said, we're going to appeal, man. Yeah. We're going to appeal. Said it was the jury was heavily, heavily influenced by pornography.

And, you know, that's that. He said the defense lawyer said, don't even worry about it. I told him. I said, don't sweat it. He said, quote, it was the sentence we told him to expect. I know he's disappointed. He's disappointed with the conviction and he's disappointed with the sentence. He's like, but it's good because we're going to flip this bitch in no as quicker than you can strap somebody up to an engine hoist. We're going to fucking take care of this. He then said, I'm so disappointed with Judge Patek Petasek that I can hardly express it. That's what the guy that's what the defense layer says. I can hardly express it.

That's what the defense lawyer says. Jurors, you know, they heard the fucking story. Then his defense lawyer says, you took an oath not to convict someone for what they had done in their homes or for their homosexual tendencies. It's terrible that Madden died, but it's worse if we convict an innocent man. That's what he had said. Now, the jurors, they talked to the jurors and said, what swung you? They talked to four different jurors and they said they all said next door neighbor who had the exact details of what happened from the guy that swung me. She said that was the point that really stuck with us.

The testimony of Sherwin-Beyer made all the difference in the world. His emotions had a big impact on all of us. Tony of Sherwin-Bayer made all the difference in the world. His emotions had a big impact on all of us. Another one said that she was Jane Gross of Plover said she was offended by claims that the jury was prejudiced by the allegations of Dressler's homosexuality, alcoholism and penchant for pornography. Wow. We took offense to it because we thought we were very open minded. We did. We thought we did a good job in a difficult situation.

They said that one of them said portions of the trial when the killing and dismemberment of the body were described, they were difficult to sit through. One of the jurors called it horrendous and said it's something you just want to forget. They said that the members of the victim's family and the defendant's wife were in the courtroom. That made it very difficult for them, but they tried to keep it detached. One of them said the wounds on the body reflected the defendant's state of mind and his condition that it was an intentional homicide. And they said that the prosecution presented a very solid case. And they said the defense attorney asked the jury to overlook direct evidence.

Yeah. They said that some of the defense attorney asked the jury to overlook direct evidence. Yeah. They said that some of the defense's arguments were redundant. This was an intelligent jury and we were beyond ploys and tactics used by defense and reached a decision through direct evidence. One of them said, OK, 1992. Oh, the next year, his wife divorces him. What happened, Kathleen? Dude, it was like a big thing, too. It was a big thing in court.

He tried to make it so she had to take the kids to visit him in jail a certain number of times a month and all that kind of shit. They were fighting over everything. She ends up getting custody of the kids and all of their property. Who else is going to get it? And his pension when he turns 55 as well. I'll take that. She even gets that. So, I mean, what the fuck is he going to do with it?

I guess he could buy ramen noodles and shit in there. He could use it to not get raped in prison. I guess. I mean, that's although. Who knows? Maybe he's going to cut people's brains out instead. That's going gonna be his tactic he would possibly give it to not get raped or give it to have sex voluntarily i would think

he seems like i don't think he wants to be overtaken another that that money's being utilized some way shape or form or attorneys to get with all his fucking appeals because he's got so many goddamn appeals too they're all over the place but yeah the divorce thing really stretched out longer than you would imagine yeah for a divorce case considering the woman is standing there with her two kids saying i'm just trying to get my two kids through life and this guy dismembered somebody dissected them fucking cut their dick and balls off this is crazy i'm trying to get my kids through life while he's literally trying to get through life trying to get through life without i'm sure i got life with kids he's got life without anything

so it's a lot fucking different uh they appeal uh the appeal i believe goes all the way to the supreme court of wisconsin there's still the last appeal was in 2019, by the way. He's still appealing. Still appealing. First Amendment grounds is where they really were concentrating on. Saying that exercising their rights guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments, Mr. and Mrs. Dressler were merely possessed articles from magazines such as Time and Newsweek, some of which depict violence, commercially produced erotica of both heterosexual and homosexual variety and three commercial videos entitled The Faces of Death. They were kept in their home out of reach of their children.

All are available in public library or to adults in bookstores or video outlets. It is undisputed that all are protected by the First Amendment. Commercial publication predated the crime by a minimum of two years. None of the materials depict the victim or the crime charged. Mr. Dressler did not distribute, author, or produce the materials at issue. He did not take the witness stand at his trial. So they said that the record is void of any evidence that he advocated, expressed an opinion or espoused the ideas by whom the materials were compiled. They said that declaring First Amendment claims to be claims to be borderline frivolous at best, effectively effectively limiting the he's basically saying this. This is what claims like this are.

We're going to fuck up the First Amendment assholes like this. They said that the fundamental flaw in Dressler's First Amendment argument and major distinguishing factor in the string of broad first amendment cases he relies on is that he was not convicted of possessing distributing or looking at the videos or pictures in question although they may have helped to convict him he never explains how his right to possess or look at them was affected by their use and evidence against them because if he had anything that was to do with a murder and similar they they're going to try to use that. Innocent citizens need not fear a murder prosecution based on the mere possession of lawful videotapes and photographs. The guilty, however, should be wary.

Well, yeah, if they're into that. They said the same jury effectively overruling this one case. It declared that a jury may draw any inference it wishes from the contents of a protected home library. The same attorney continuously represented Mr. Dressler from pretrial through federal denial in this court. He sought Friedman adversary hearing compliance and prompt judicial review. Jesus Christ.

They basically said, go fuck yourself. So that's 2019. The last appeal is denied. Then in Connecticut, there's a cold case. Connecticut authorities are now aware of Dressler. According to Sergeant Brian Acker of the Connecticut State Police, he said he too has considered the possibility of a link between a murder they have there and Dressler. Acker said he hasn't established any definite ties between the investigations and the deaths weren't identical.

The dismemberments have similar characteristics, though are not exactly the same. This happened in November of 1986. though are not exactly the same. This happened in November of 1986. They said that there's no incentive for him to tell us about anything at this point because he's trying to get out on appeal. Connecticut authorities reported that a man who was killed thought to be hitchhiking to the home of friends in Boston was killed in November 1986. A headless, legless body was found at a rest area along Highway 8

between Torrington and Litchfield, Connecticut. The rest stop had been advertised in magazines. It's one of those secret hookup spots there. And they say that his remains were found wrapped in a blanket lying in the snow. He was identified through fingerprints, but they don't think that it's connected but connecticut was very interested to find out because of some similarities in the way the cuts were made oh so they didn't like that i got it yeah yeah they're like there are some specific actions taken in the dismemberment right that every dismemberment's different yeah you know

and this was like same vertebrae, same like shit like that. So they were like, this is weird. And who knows? 86 to 90. You can do a lot of growing from 86 to 90. Sure. You can learn about plastic bags. You can have different things you bring into it.

You can start thinking about what organs you want to take with you. Who knows? So we don't know that that case isn't solved. So who the fuck knows? And then finally this neighborhood is still dealing with this shit by the way what still dealing with the like the stigma of it one woman here says she doesn't like the continual mention of the address of the former dressler property on five mile road

she tells she tells friends that the home she's occupied is next to the land where the murder occurred uh but the residents said the murder didn't prompt them to buy guns or take other security measures that's not what they said in the paper they said it later but when it happened they're like i sleep with a loaded gun next to my head and then later on they said quote if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen one thing you say to yourself, it couldn't happen here. Okay. Well, yes, it could. Obviously, it happened right fucking here.

Like exactly right here. I'm blown away by this whole fucking thing with this guy. He's still in prison, thankfully, and he's not going to get out. Let's get one thing straight first of all he definitely did this okay he absolutely killed this man he absolutely dismembered this guy he did hard we don't know what the fuck he did between the torture the killing the dismemberment all we have is what we have physical evidence of everything else is in his fucking brain what he did we have no clue the weird shit he did we

have no idea he spent hours with this body we don't know that it was it's then it's probably covering up the the homosexual uh urges that he has who fucking knows though he knows that's who knows and he could tell that's the thing yeah and second of all whether they're gay or straight urges Who gives a shit? to do this doesn't fucking matter in the least. Either way, you're a dick.

Because, yeah, this is the shit that Ted Bundy would have done in a heterosexual life. What's the difference? Who cares? It doesn't fucking matter. The one thing I don't like about this case is I honestly wish

that the prosecution didn't put the porn in there. Yeah, don't focus on that. You don't need it. You have a witness that's going to come on and say that, you have a witness that's going to come on and say, 10 days after the murder, I came to his house, did the exact sequence of things that he told his neighbor he did with this guy

and then we fucked a bunch and watched gay porn so you would have had that that's all you would have needed maybe introduce the tape they watched as evidence that he knew what tapes he had in his possession and he was telling the truth maybe that's it but otherwise it's like michael peterson the staircase yeah michael peterson like i think that dude did it personally like probably i don't buy i don't believe him for a motherfucking second when he talks i think he's full of shit i think his body language is fucking terrible i think his story's garbage i don't like really far-fetched theory i don't like any of his theories his theories suck they're all far-fetched bullshit

but i hate that the trial focused so much on that prosecutor going homosexual like that the way she was she was like a preacher that lady his dirty homosexual lifestyle that he didn't want anybody to find out about i was like oh they froze so many murders in that time period of about that yeah it's pretty disturbing it is so i think you could have taken all of that out and just made it like yeah he's a married guy and maybe he was freaked out about being gay or being bi or whatever it was and you could have added that in but i don't think i think when you start adding in all the porn and stuff it's like you're trying to get a definite win yeah like you're slamming like you're piling on at that point for lack of a better term you're tainting the jury is what

i'm getting at so but either way you're putting your thumb in the ass when you're already in there stop you're you're already in either way though this is one of those where this guy can't be on the street. He can't. Anybody who's capable of physically doing what he did, you can't have him mixing in society anymore. He's capable of taking a human being apart. Right. Alone with a body. He opens it.

That's not a good person. No. If he did accidentally shoot the guy, that fucking happens. Call the cops and say what happened, and it's fine. The guy has no criminal record, upstanding citizen. Everybody said, too, he was even like a very careful gun owner. He would tell other people you need to get trigger locks, you need to get gun safes and all this type of shit. He would teach people how to properly care for them and

use them and shit like so he wasn't a willy-nilly guy like if he just shot a guy accidentally in the head he wouldn't have gone to jail for it probably or he might have you know gotten probation for two years or some bullshit like that if they honestly believed that's what happened but once you cut the guy's brain out you've gone over over that. You've gone above and beyond. So you know it's intentional. So anyway, that's Raymond, Wisconsin. That's a crazy fucking goddamn shit bonkers story that was.

So if you enjoyed that or enjoyed any of our episodes, get on whatever platform you're listening to, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and now Audible as well. Please leave you on there and give us a review.

It does help us out a lot. It helps drive us up the charts. So thank you for doing that. Head over to shut up and give me murder.com for everything crime and sports and small town murder. If you're not listening to crime and sports, I don't know what you're doing, but get started on that shit because it's hilarious. And we get to unleash on an asshole athlete every single week and it's a lot

of fun so check that out but get your all your merchandise and most of all get your tickets to not only all the live shows coming up but the virtual live show yes that I'm so excited about is February the 10th and it's available for 72 hours after that. It's going to be a small town murder episode with all the visuals, all the fun. And if you saw the last one, you know we get super wacky and the visuals make a huge difference and change the entire show. So it's a live show. We're just broadcasting it out. That's all we're doing. And we have no audience.

You'll be the audience, but we can't see you. We just can't see you. So that's how that works. It'll be Sarah hanging out like we can't see you we just can't see you so that's how that works it'll be sarah hanging out in there so there you go that's our audience thank you sarah for being our audience all the time so there you go uh get your tickets to that right now shut up and give me murder.com or over at moment house.com slash small tab murder also available there i don't know why just whatever so. So catch your tickets to that. Follow us on social media. We are at Murder Small on Twitter,

at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. Check us out there. Patreon, big stuff this week. Yes. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Anybody $5 or above, you get access to everything,

the entire back catalog, both shows, crime and sports and small town murders, bonus stuff. And whatever show you like, if you like one more than the other, the bonus stuff really bleeds over. Everybody that likes one show or the other more listens to all the bonus stuff

if they're Patreon, because they say it all works out. So this week, no different. Patreon.com slash crime and sports this week, crime and sports episode, and you're going to get say it all works out. So this week, no different. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. This week, Crime and Sports episode, and you're going to get access to all of it, is on-field incidents or on ice or on court incidents

that have real-life legal ramifications. How much do you have to... You've seen crazy shit in a football game or basketball guys brawling. How far does it have to go before the police actually take you away in cuffs from your professional sports gig? We will find out. We'll get there. On that episode.

And then for small town murders, we're going to visit a subject that everybody was very interested in, including us. We're going to talk about the Tony Alamo cult, which came up with our murderer in woodstock uh illinois a couple weeks ago he was a part of it and we're going to concentrate you know how we do like the john bonnet ramsey episode we really concentrated on how ridiculous the ransom note was and that sort of thing here we're going to really concentrate on the fashion because it's like a 20 year huge cult so it's a lot to cover and we'll talk about we'll hit points of it but we're going to talk about the shit that they made the jackets what celebrities were wearing them which is crazy what they were doing what the prices are for them now even we'll talk about all of it how you make cult slave labor into some hot like celebrity fashion brand is the weirdest shit

in the world it's crazy Check all of that out. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Can't wait to give you all of that. And you're going to get a shout out like just in a moment here where Jimmy will mispronounce the name of whoever donated terribly while trying his best to pronounce it. And if you just want that shout out and have great karma and damn it, our undying love, Want that shout out and have great karma and damn it, our undying love. You can do that over at PayPal as well using our email address, crimeinsportsatgmail.com.

One thing left to do, Jimmy. I love it so much. Hit me with the names of the people who would never hang us upside down by electrical hoists, castrate us, cut our heads open, and stuff our brains down the garbage disposal. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Stephen Dean, Loida Cardone-Arvonia, is that right? Oh, Loida, that's my grandmother. Yeah. Loida Cardone-Arvonia.

That was the whole point. It was in her memory that somebody donated. That's very nice. A very, very nice story. Thank you so much. Jordan Bennett, Tracy Renninger, Nicholas Ferranci, and Ferranci maybe? The Herbal Painter, I think, in New Hampshire.

Thank you guys truly for everything you do for us. Thank you for everything. Especially people donating in names of deceased relatives. That's so sweet. Thank you guys. Sweet of you guys. Thank you so much. Other producers this week are Brett Bendall, Joe uh joe rufino sex murderer what the fuck jesus patricia cunniff um reagan carol braun's mom uh passed away that's who patricia is oh we're

sorry sorry carol hang in there thank you so much for hanging with us uh elizabeth vela peyton meadows frank the south african bird watching, James Marder, also Frank the South African Birdwasher. Now we have people donating in duels, I guess, to call people a whore. Jesus Christ. Jessica Cooley, Liz Vasquez, Natalie Yulvin, Hudson and Whiskey at Centeno Kennels in Ontario, Donald Duishbag, Esquire. I don't know who that is. That's a reference to something I know.

I don't know. Catherine Collado, Paul Fankhauser. Happy hour in Tucumcari, New Mexico. He was just up in New Hampshire last week. The guy, he donates for whatever town he's listening in this week because he's a long-haul trucker. That's awesome. Thank you. That's his handle. Happy Hour. Brian Killian, Melissa Donaldson-Zeeb, Holly

Prashu, Moondog Rex, but not Moondog Spot. That's a tag team wrestler. Jeff Chanel, Janice Hill, Grace Going Through Gene Therapy. Hang in there, Grace. Michael Holmsmith. Doug Jones, Nicole Inec Holmesmith. Doug Jones. Nicole Eniclarico, I think.

Jeff Shrewsbury. Happy birthday, Luca. DeLuca. Not just Luca. Happy birthday. It's DeLuca. Thomas Smith. Rabbi Shmulalovich and Shida Perlman.

Dr. Myron Dickstein. Dickstein? I don't know. What the fuck? Yeah. Sure. Jesus. Why not?

Christy Allerhead. Christine Leister, KP Planners, Molly Hewitt, Georgette King, Laura Corbett, Kayla Drayton, Katie Griffin, Nick Prochaska, Jesus, Devin W., Debbie Scherrier, I think, Louise with no last name, Sheila Hamilton. John McGuire. John, nope, that's Jace. Jace Kuhn. Forrest Baldwin. Jake with no last name. Amy Crawford.

Melissa Klein. Letitia Wamek. Wamek? Wamek. Wamek? One of those. Oh, boy. Karina Mullins.

She got two. Thank you so much, Karina. Thank you. Christian with no last name. This guy. Winston Hsiao. Noel Darville. Keyboard?

Probably not. Louis Tran. Mickey DeMau-Sudenimus. Sudenonymous? Oh, boy. Nick Lorenzen. Sydney Dryden. Jennifer Bartz.

Jess McMahon. Taylor Jones. Ryan Romine. Michael with no last name. Chris Baer. Lee Laney. Rachel Santoro. Jessica with no last name.

Tasha Gray. Gracie Hedrick. Mary Eakin. Ruthie Murray. last name chris bear lee laney and rachel santoro jessica with no last name tasha gray gracie hedrick uh mary eakin ruthie murray and oh boy angelina angelina beal katie brown po post espresso pos depresso i don't know alexander uh merker johnny blaze probably not nicholas dykstra also probably not. Amber Swain, Michael with no last name. Celia Gelpe, Zoe McLean, Scott Prote, Tanya Piant, David Nickerson, careful with that one. Nikki Lopez, Kaya with no last name.

Carl Morell, Haley with no last name. Say it again. You're a mess. I am. Rebecca Higley. Alex Stanley Stretch. Trista Jones. Kimberly Birch. Chelsea with no last name. Bianca with no last name.

Jessica McGovern. Jennifer Hughes. Mackenzie Bell. Alexandra Ann Blue Wilson. Nope, that's a.k.a. Blue Wilson. Jamie Cocking. Careful. Annie Molina. Philippa Rabella de Andrade. Ken Miller don shaffer pat brown donna dana duncan alley nope that's just al rod rodabaugh rodabaugh it's fucking al yeah uh rodabaugh like

christian slater in uh young guns was rodabaugh right or rudabaugh oh god i haven't seen it in too long it was dave rudibah that's it okay ryan waller thomas mcbride polly rubio michelle che che uh janice pinell joey pepperoni nips that one always gets us they got me uh callie with no last name joel with no last name jessica bell patrick with no last name jason rimbert benjamin brockmeyer thomas gorman jordan nickrell nikel nikel uh becca becca right uh stephanie lewis katie joe henry abigail steinhardt doc with no last name miriam cats ashley cochran uh jesse nope that's stephanie stephanie hoffman kimmy jackson and kimmy jackson yeah theresa summers uh anthony savage becky daniels rochelle howell luke casey sunny dawn

jessica gnarly work horse carrie tomlin jake buffman buttman uh booth man uh mark gordon those are very different names that you just said keanu himalaya tucker der stein julian julian k ronda., Rhonda Webb, Megan with no last name, Deanna Shelton, Heather Murphy, Tyler Martinez, Miller Wasteman, Markham, Markham, Ontario, Casey Kampf, Chloe Grog, Rochelle DeFlorio, Tamron with no last name, Candace Lopez, Beth Young, Caitlin Cunningham, Harrison Holcomb, Sarah McGrath, Louise Peterson, Laura with no last name, Christine Fowler, Christine Delosier, Neil Wilson Jr., Emily Cunningham, Brandon Steele-Wyatt, Jess, nope, that's Thomas, Thomas Grace, Matt, Nahom, Kim with no last name, Sarah Ann TJ, Jared Lex, Sam Beard, Shana Noyes, Cora Jarrett, Andrew Yonker, Lisa Rust, Isaac Schultz, Joshua Wilson, Tara Gale, Nick Mason, Scott Bouland, Monica Young, Tanith Reynolds, Walter Doe, Jordan Zander, Cody Gochenauer, Gockner, oh boy, Caleb Moss, George Sterling, Jolene with no last name, Katie Mossman, Heather Punt, Thomas Beck, Isaac Bickford, Dee Jagstad, Carly Marie, Heather Stiles, Kevin Brown, Sabrina Dunkley, Katie Reberg, Nathan Colt, Dee Quantarella, Crystal Carol Spear, Faith Marie Dutcher, Carl Mickin, Allison Greg ACC. What's an ACC? David Klassen. Atlantic Coast Conference.

I think she is. Lisa Trubikowski-Brown, Richard Chase, Jacob Workman, Nikki with no last name, Amanda Kalunga, Donovan Gilbert, Jeff Dick, Julie Rudquist, Jessica Shatt, Nick Thurman, Devante Thomas, Megan Mader, Jen Banman, Jillian Cass, Alyssa Allison, Zoltowski, Jesse Linman, Angela Dodgson, Vicky Schulenberg, Dan M., Terry Ward, Emily Lucia, Julia Shoujan, Brandon Belaf Kelly. Kelly Hassett, Brian Hurtgen, Taryn Stein, Alex Love, Shelby Sharma, Kelsey Allen, Robin Pesco, Roos with no last name, Mark Woo. Woo, I love Woo. Woo. That's a good one. Hang Dye.

Guys, that was Woo. Hang Dye. Kristen Newkirk, Jane Zia, Grayson Lamb, Chase Robertson, Diana Foster, Kara Sin Horster, and all of our patrons. You guys are fucking amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. Heroes. Thank you.

Hero people from the bottom of our hearts. We really do appreciate it. We hope you're loving those Patreon episodes. And thank you for all the feedback on those, too. We get so much good feedback on those. It's like when you put out a regular episode. It's the same amount of feedback. So thank you.

Really nice to hear from you guys. Thank you. We're jacked that you're excited for it. Because as crazy as we go for these episodes, and we go crazy for them. I mean, they have to be meticulous. We go even crazier to make sure the Patreon ones are good because you pay for those. So it's good stuff. Jimmy, what if they wanted to find you how could they get a hold of you you know where you can find us you can you can google small town murder podcast and we're there

go to shut up and give me murder.com links to both of our social medias and everything you could want is right there check us out and keep coming back week after week after week. Crazy fucking show, Jimmy. This was a wild one and I had a good time. Yeah. I think you did as well. Great time. Good shit.

So until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with W Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.