Small Town Murder - #262 - Disturbing, Depraved & Disgusting - Kihei, Hawaii

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

This week, in Kihei, Hawaii, the signature moves of a serial killer are found, when a woman is horribly attacked, with many creepy details that show an obviously disturbed mind. It gets even more disturbing, when these exact same strange details are found to have existed in a murder, 7 years earlier, including matching cans of hair mousse. These details tie both of these awful acts to one man, who was raised seemingly to do this exact kind of thing. You can't help but wonder if there's more bodies, or other terrible acts that just never came to light!! Along the way, we find out that Hawaii doesn't need any mottos, that how you're raised has a definite impact on your future sicknesses, and that no on that hears this will want to use hair mousse, ever again!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Kihei, Hawaii, a man is called a raving maniacal animal and for good reason, considering that his murders were about as gruesome as could be imagined. Welcome to

Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Westman. Thank you so much for joining us today i think i surprised jimmy with that i caught him off guard or something he's like oh shit yeah i have to introduce myself thank you so much for joining us today we are very very excited today mainly because if you're just listening to this when it comes out on thursday or even friday saturday or sunday the virtual live show is happening

and we are so excited. You can get your tickets and you can buy the show all weekend for 72 hours after Thursday or if you buy it for Thursday, you can watch it for 72 hours after that. Do whatever you want. Watch it 10 times. Watch it once. Do whatever you want with it. It's up to you.

Shut up and givememurder.com is where you get those tickets or momentshouse.com slash small town murder. We're super excited. We have a crazy case all laid out and it is good stuff. So we can't wait to show you all the visuals and we'll be having a good time. Hang out with us. It's going to be fun. We're very, very excited. So thank you for that.

Also, this week, we have such good stuff going on on Patreon. My goodness. You cannot this week, we have such good stuff going on on Patreon. My goodness. You cannot even imagine, Jimmy. We have. Well, you can't because you were there when we made them. But yeah, such good stuff. Anybody, by the way, five dollars or above. Patreon dot com slash slash crime and sports.

You're going to get everything that we put out for any bonus material for either show. Crime and sports and small town murder. And if you're not listening to Crime and Sports, check it out. This week is a perfect example. Crazy story, very little sports. Check it out. So anyway, for Crime and Sports episode, we're going to do something that has very little to do with the actual sports, but a lot to do with conning and swindling.

It's a guy named Ron Weaver, who was a college football player who was mediocre played out his time and then when he was 30 many many years later he goes maybe i'll change my identity and do that again that was a lot of fun yeah i think now i can push around 18 year olds a little better and he does shockingly enough so this guy it's a crazy tale once he gets caught and it all unravels and then for small town murders we had i think it's one of my favorite ones we ever did, the Deadwood newspaper articles from the first couple years that Deadwood, South Dakota existed. And want to know what it is? Want to know what it's like to live in a literally lawless Old West prospecting town?

There it is. We're going to tell you all about it. Tons of mayhem and all all of that so you can get all that patreon.com slash crime and sports and you'll get a shout out jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while trying his hardest to get it right i will work so he'll mess it up though he really will or if you just want to get your shout out over you can do that over at paypal using your email address crime and sports at gmail.com that's our email address, crimeandsportsatgmail.com. That's our email address, not yours. I just said using your email address.

No, ours. Use your email address. Otherwise, you'll be giving yourself money, and that'll be kind of pointless. So anyway, that's a disclaimer. This is a comedy show. We are comedians. The horrible, horrible murders happen.

What we do, they will happen, and we're going to make jokes, but we make jokes around the gross parts. That's kind of how we do they will happen and we're gonna make jokes but we make jokes around the gross parts that's kind of how we do it here there's nothing funny about someone's head being cut off i don't know how to make jokes about that but i do know how to make i yeah and we do know how to make jokes though about someone thinking i bet i can get away with cutting someone's head off that's we can make jokes about that person but what we go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why?

Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. There you have it. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, we're going to have a good time with a really, really terrible incident that happened in the world. And if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, that might not be for you. But it might be for you. That's the thing. You should give it a shot you don't know don't judge a book by its comedic cover the stories are real and they're crazy so if that sounds good to you i think it's time to sit back jimmy clear the lungs and shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy

let's go on a trip we're going on a nice trip this time. Yeah, we are. Oh, this is going to be great. We've been all over the U.S. Indiana last week. Continental shit. It's winter. We're in Indiana this week.

No, no. Kihei, Hawaii. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We're going to the islands. We needed it. Lick-a-lick-a-mock-a, James. We needed to get out of the winter, and we're doing it right here.

It's beautiful. This is Kihei, Hawaii. It's on the south side of the island of Maui. Beautiful. Oh, that's the good one. That's an I guess. Let me read the islands. There's multiple islands, and there's Hawaii, which is the big island, and then there's Maui,

and uh there's hawaii which is the big island and then there's maui and there's oahu kawaii milwaukee lanai what the fuck i don't know how to pronounce that there's a few more i don't know the other the last two have a grand total of of 170 people on it okay one i can't pronounce was called the forbidden aisle and one's called the Target Isle, which I assume that means the Air Force or Navy or Army blew a lot of shit up there. Or you have to wear khaki pants and a red shirt there. Either one. So that's possible. Just a giant target. That's all it is.

Super target. That's the one. A lot of self-checkouts here. Wow. That's a lot. So about 145,000 people on the island of Maui, on the whole island here. It is all of this. You're about a half hour, an hour away from everywhere in Hawaii, so it's ridiculous to say from here to there.

Except it is 42 minutes to Haiku, Hawaii, which was our last Hawaii episode. That was back, Jimmy, episode 56. 17 years ago. February 7th, 2018. Holy shit. So four years ago. Everything was on the rails. The world was looking bright.

It wasn't looking bright. It was better than now, but it wasn't great. Yeah, in comparison. No, I mean, it wasn't on fire. People weren't crazy. I didn't have to threaten to beat up men in the bank like I did yesterday. I walked into a bank yesterday to a man screaming at two old women. They were at least in their mid to late 70 70s working at chase yelling at them in full

i said oh we're fucking yelling at old ladies at the bank now get the fuck out of here and this guy like freaked out like because no one was around it was just him and these two old ladies he was having a field day and i walked me like freaked out and scurried out he's just the bully yeah and it's just this old lady she looked like she was gonna fucking cry i was like what happened what's going on i was what i, what is happening in this world? You don't yell at old ladies at the bank, a little fucking decorum. This is where all the money is. Can we all be cool?

Be cool in this building. Get the fuck out. Be cool in this building. This is like, hey, we're all putting our money in here. You can't start acting a fool. This is like an airplane. We're all in this together. Don't mess it up.

So anyway, this is in Maui County can't start acting a fool. This is like an airplane. We're all in this together. Don't mess it up. Should be, yeah. Right. So anyway, this is in Maui County on the island of Maui. Area code 808. Motto here, it's Hawaii. We don't need a fucking motto. There you go. Come here. Stay a while.

You'll like it. Ever heard of Maui? Exactly. There you go. You like beaches? We're surrounded by it. We are a beach. That's just what we are. A beach and a mountain. That's all we are in this whole.

We're a beach. We got turtles and blue fucking water. Come have a drink. Very little history here. There's a lot of history, but we're going to go over quickly because the murder is insane this week. So we have to get to that here. So apparently there was a big height of the whaling era this was a major center of whaling in one season over 400 ships visited with up to 100 anchored at one time in uh la high lahaina roads um the ships would stay for weeks rather than days and they would because it's hawaii so they wanted to be there it's not like they're off the coast of Massachusetts or something. So they're in Hawaii, so they would stay there, drink, pillage, all that sort of thing.

Pirate shit, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, there was also a lot of prostitution on the island because there was a lot of whaling guys. Pirate shit. And there's a bunch of missionaries in there. Yeah. You know, it's not like Tampa. Trying to fix it all.

At least there's not roosters running around while this is happening. It's Tampa without the roosters. Yeah. And everything else that is Tampa. So then once they had like petroleum replaces whale oil as our fuel, then that's that for whaling. And then that's over there. So, yeah, Hawaii was the 50th state in 1959. It was annexed in 1898,

and they made a territory in 1900. And obviously Hawaii, very big part of the Pacific theater of World War II because, you know, Japan and the United States are really fucking far, and Hawaii is a pretty good stop-off point in between them. It's not halfway, but once you get there and you go, oh my God, there's still six hours until we get to America?

Closer than San Diego. That's one of those. So at the peak in 1943 and 1944, there was more than 100,000 soldiers here, based here. Absolutely. The beaches were used as practice landings to train marine demolition and sabotage and all that sort of thing here. So I found some reviews of this town. I don't know how you can complain.

If you complain, if you live here and you... You perfectionist motherfucker. You know what i'm saying like imagine you're living in like west virginia somewhere and it's cold right now or anywhere it's cold new york right here where we're sitting if we're you know we're sitting here cold and all this and we're reading somebody going i don't know it'd be a nitpicky about maui i'm really not going to be happy to hear that so how much food have you sent back yeah plain and ass son of a bitch how many yelp reviews do you have in your account open up your app right now i want to see how many reviews it's a lot isn't it it's a lot shit you haven't even been to you just drove by badges on yelp you

bastard it says it looked dirty from the outside that's the only one star did not stop did not stop so this is for maui county so it's the whole island five stars i love it everybody that visits would would tell you how beautiful it is the flowing oceans to the native people it's just been by far a blessing to have grown up on the island of maui oh fuck you this person's so happy it gets worse dude it turns into a postcard or like a Disney movie here. Holy shit. I believe this was said on Lilo and Stitch somewhere. The island just radiates the aloha spirit, and that's why I have chosen to stay here around my ohana and still pursue my dreams of being an entrepreneur and one day be the owner of a successful business.

Please help me pursue my passions and do what I love. How are we supposed to respond? It's a review. It's a review on a website that gives town information. How am I supposed to, like, there's no way to activate this. I can't. I'd love to. Where do I go?

That's a 2020 version of a message in a box. Yeah, that's what it is. Please help me. Where are you? I can't. I'm knocking on the screen and she's not in there. Hello? Throw $12 in a bottle and throw it in the ocean.

It'll get here. Yeah. Hello? Are you there? Four stars. I like that most of the people are good spirited and help each other out. I like that there's not really any huge crimes committed. What I would change is the cost of living.

It is almost unaffordable. Yeah, it's paradise. If it was cheap, you dare. If it was cheap, it'd be so crowded you'd be pushed into the fucking ocean. Do you understand that? People complain about that. Do you have any fucking idea how many people are on this other part? Because if we all came there, it's unlivable.

You hear people complaining like, you'll hear people complaining like that, we know, live in LA. And they're like, you can't move like anywhere. Go to this place, that place. You're like, yeah, it's on the ocean. That's why. No, you can't have a house overlooking the ocean for cheap. If you could, no one would be overrun more than it is. Who's not going there?

It's a beach in the L.A.'s in a fucking desert. You have a beach in the desert. You're going to have mass traffic. That's the expensive part. That's why there's a river and there's water. Fuck. Yes. That's why Riverside exists for, you you know like i can't afford to live

on the beach either but you know what i understand it's a beach shit it sounds good i can't believe how many people want to live here you can't believe it so weird so four stars for this one here uh quote maui has been my home it is absolute paradise in my opinion there is no place that compares to my beautiful home. However, there are several issues that Maui struggles with. Homelessness, drugs, and littering. Okay, if you mention littering as your top three problems, that's not a lot of problems. You're crushing it.

I saw a Snickers wrapper. This place has really gone to shit. It's terrible. Two stars. Two stars, this one. They don has really gone to shit. It's terrible. Two stars. Two stars. This one. No, they don't like it at all. Roads are poorly maintained.

And when patchwork is done, it washes away with the next rain. The county has poor relations with its people, and the county construction workers can often be caught standing around to the point it's literally used to describe people who are lazy. Also, the price of living has skyrocketed in the last two decades. For example, a mansion in Arizona would barely get you a small house in a beat-up suburb. Yeah, because it's the fucking desert. That's why. It's the desert. Oh, my God.

You live in a tropical climate. You literally have, like, our roads get washed out by our tropical rains of course they do i could get a place in tucson for so much cheaper oh really do you not know how weather affects things sir how much easier yuma would be to live come on cheaper so much cheaper have you heard of kingman people in this town 22,750 here yeah so uh quick through the stats it's 50 50 male female median age is exactly normal it's about 37 normal average i should say um it's about the same 50 50 married nothing crazy here uh 20 or 19% are single with children. So, I mean, there's that to go with. Race of this town.

This is the surprising thing. It's 44% white, 1% black, 21% Asian, 2.8 Hawaiian or Pacific Islander. What? Yeah. So that few? But 19% are two races or more, so that's probably mixed. Yeah, I think that's going to be with, yeah.

Religion here is not too much here. It's mostly Catholic, actually. I think they got their missionaries there first, probably. It's what it sounds like. That's what it is. I mean, honestly, any island, it's whoever got there first and set up shop. I mean, the Mormons are like, damn it.

God damn it. Missed it. 0.0% Jewish politics here. It's 66.6% of the people voted Democrat in the last presidential election. 31% Republican, 2.3% independent. Unemployment rate here is high. I don't know if there's enough jobs. I don't know if there's enough room for enough jobs for the people. You know what I mean? So i don't know if there's enough jobs i don't know if there's enough room for enough jobs for the people you know what i mean so i don't

know how that works on an island everything is different on an island economically you can't bets are off all bets are off everything changes milk is eight dollars a gallon the whole shit's a fucking you know it's a whole mess here you're eating spam because that's what there is no it's bad they love it and they love it because that's what there is so uh yeah 12 unemployment here which is a lot that's really it's like it's pushing it's almost at three percent in the rest of the country right now so that's saying something and uh median household income is 71,423 which is pretty high yeah very high uh but 24 of the jobs here are like accommodations food service like hotels restaurants tourist shit the cost of living 100 is average here it's 164 it's a little bit high and uh but the high part is the housing median home cost 807 800 bucks here holy shit that is

expensive almost three times the national average. So pretty goddamn expensive. So, I mean, so what? Let's say you've saved some money up. I don't know. You've had a successful run at something, and you're going to move here, or you're just going to make it work. You're going to live by the beach. You don't care.

You're going there. We have for you the Kihei Hawaii Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for, expensive as to be expected, $1,929. Jesus. That's pretty expensive. It's hard to find anything affordable here. So the most affordable thing you can buy, it's a studio. It's a condo. Studio condo. condo just you know one room with a bathroom one room in a bathroom 420 square feet so like a you know like a easy ups like a double tree like a room at the double tree you know what i mean like wow

not great the bed is just a murphy bed that pulls down between the kitchen and the living area no so but it has a beach view so i think what they're assuming is you're probably not spending Right. The bed is just a Murphy bed that pulls down between the kitchen and the living area. No. So but it has a beach view. So I think what they're assuming is you're probably not spending a whole lot of time there anyway. Right. You know, so three hundred forty nine thousand bucks. Oh, my. Yeah, that's expensive. But you are by the beach in Hawaii, so it's not too bad, I guess. It's a one person place. They can't have you or a couple at best. You can't have kids in that shit. Yeah, I guess. It's a one-person place. Or a couple at best. You can't have kids in that shit.

Yeah, I don't know. It's very strange. The next one's a cottage. It's a weird cottage. Two-bedroom, one bath. 490 square feet in two bedrooms and one bath. I don't know how you pull that off. How do you do it?

That's crazy. It's not even that nice. There's two other houses here and a caretaker cottage as well. There's all sorts of houses on the property. It's not very good. $1.2 million for that. Holy shit.

That's a lot here. Then here's a family house, like a house you'd find in the suburbs somewhere. Four bedroom, three baths, 1,708 square feet. 1986 it was built in. Very average view of the beach, but that's nice. $1,549,000. And then quickly I got to tell you about this one because it's ridiculous. Eight bedroom, eight bath, 10,464 square feet.

It looks like a resort. It's insanity. $29,500,000 for that. A little expensive. A little pricey. Oh, boy. Willie Nelson and the bald guy from True Detective and Cheers, Woody Harrelson. Yeah.

They live in Hawaii in something like that, I imagine. Yeah, probably. And just smoke weed all day. Oh, that's a great existence. It's not terrible. It's not bad, I got to say. So that's the bar for success. You have to be household name to be able to live here. I don't think they live in a place like this is extravagant.

I'm sure it is. It's Willie Nelson and Woody Harrelson, James. I'm going to go half of this, though. Because the houses that are half this size are insanely beautiful there. They're huge and all that. But $10,460, that's awesome. That's like weird. That's so bad.

That's some weird CEO house. Like, you know, just him and his young wife are there going, we need all of this. I want to know what the taxes on that shit would be, too. Because sure the taxes are outrageous right i would be i would assume so i don't know to live in fucking maui things to do here it's maui do everything it's the ocean do all this shit things to do found do maui motherfucker what are you talking about found one particularly interesting thing here maui mermaid swimming adventures just because it sounds no very silly it says who doesn't want to become a mermaid i'm in right off the bat you got me hooked don't get those sweet shells now you can learn how to during your visit to maui you can learn how to become a mermaid and take professional swimming

lessons with professionals who are certified marine naturalists they said professionals three words apart professional swimming lessons with professionals i would hope those go together yeah they're all cpr certified this is dangerous or what uh during the lesson you'll be able to learn about the myths of mermaids too what the hell does that have to do with anything james this is dangerous as fuck they're about to strap both your feet together and throw you in the ocean. And just have people swimming next to you going, are you okay? Okay, good. Are you having fun? Should I rescue you now? No? Okay. Should I breathe

for you? It's okay. CPR? No? Oxygen? He's pulling the thing out of their mouth, holding it out to you. Don't worry. Mermen can also partake in this unique experience. Have an aspiring mermaid who's not quite big enough for our mermaid tails? We also offer mermaid

meet and greets. Our mermaid will swim right up to the beach and meet your little one. Wow. Also, our mermaid will share mermaid stories about the myth and mysteries of mermaids across the world, from sailors' tails to mermaid names.

One man said he raped a mermaid is that going to be your tail i don't want to hear that tail it sounds disgusting we're going to convince you this bullshit's real jesus christ and there's also a maui pineapple tour of course you can just go there i just love that it says uh every guest will receive a free airport ready pineapple to take home with them a real they just give you take all the fucking weapons off of it it's deep pointed and there you go now you can take that with you crime rate in this town property crime um is the first one here it's about average not too not low not high which i mean shit they're making it sound like it was one person made it sound like there's just it's rampant uh violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount

rushmore of crime is a little under half the national average so it's pretty yeah you gotta it's pretty laid back man like how can you be upset here and yeah it's just it's just very laid back there's not a lot of like i don't think there's a lot of road rage probably maybe there is i don't know i mean if maybe if you're used to it it just pisses you off you're like you fucking parrot look at you look at you you tropical beast you fucking hat look at these oh god it's beautiful again oh we're gonna get like a 20 minute tropical shower to cool the day off isn't that nice great but you know what i mean what are you mad about a lot of very small cars and scooters on these islands like that's the way these people get around and that sounds unbelievable to me and dangerous also it's like well it's like in asia too you see like asian

cities it's all a lot they say like that's an asian city that's an asian city like in vietnam i know like in a lot of these cities you car is useless. You need a motorcycle to weave in and out because the way traffic works. Italy is the same way. Italy, you have these tiny cars because traffic is just like, go! And then it's cannonball run and they all just fucking people scramble. Roundabouts up on the sidewalk. It's nuts. It's nuts.

So speaking of nuts, let's talk about a murder shall we all right let's do this a particularly crazy series of events here this is uh buckle up and uh not for the faint of heart we'll say for this one here now let's talk about a guy first off a robert mark edwards we're going to start with here he's born in 1961 and we're going to start with here. He was born in 1961, and we're going to catch up with him later on in the 1980s, but let's find out a little bit about him and see what kind of soil did he spring forth from. Let's find out. No, he's not from Hawaii,

so it wasn't volcanic at all probably. No, so his mom, her name is Laura, and his father, his name is William, and they were married in 1959. Robert's born in 1961. He's got an older brother who's William Jr. after his dad, and then he's got a younger sister named Elena. He'll always be close to elena through the years so but uh they are that's the family there's the five of them not your postcard family there's no not a norman rockwell painting by any stretch of the imagination uh his father william was a pilot in the army yeah which is fine um now i hear i heard conflicting things Yeah. Yikes.

He did two of them. Comes home like you would imagine if you just served two tours of duty in Vietnam. He did two of them. Yes. And war affects people in different ways, too. Like, you'll see it. Some people, it's a weird formative thing for them that they take good from it. And then some people, it really fucks them up, understandably. My uncle who served was very soft and gentle but like

hair trigger and it was like around like around like safety of his family he would like snap and you're like they just asked if we wanted fucking pepper on our food calm down yeah and then other times yeah that's that's what happens man so uh it wasn't that So the PTSD wasn't treated back then for these guys. It was tough. So he serves two tours of duty, and he remains in the service. And so they moved around very frequently when he was a child. So they end up in California, Florida, Georgia, Puerto Rico. They're all over the place.

There's a lot going on for the family, which if everything's happy that you can, you can live with that people. You can make that fun, you know, Hey, new adventure, everybody. Like if that's the status quo, what people are used to, fuck it. They're going to be like, yay. You know, if you make it a good thing, every time the kids will think it's great. Except this wasn't that kind of family here. Uh, when he's very young, young robert his father would punch him with a

closed fist oh boy we're talking from toddler age he'd smack he'd pop him with a closed fist this is according to all of his both of his siblings and his mother all punch a child oh but toddler just pow right in his soft spot just take that and knock his ass to the ground. So, William's the father here. He also suspected always that Robert wasn't really his child. He had no reason to suspect that, apparently, and, you know,

he looked like him and everything, but he just wouldn't accept it. Just always had a hint of doubt in his mind. They said, the mother said, he first, William first hit young robert when he was

six months old which is fucking diabolical that's crazy you can't that's i mean way too or you gotta wait till they're like two and a half to start knocking them down wait till they can stand up well on their own power then you knock them down that really they're already down what's the point you know yeah that's that's super young that is six months six months walking no what can a six month old i'm crying it's a baby figure out what's wrong with it it's not trying to it's not being vindictive it's six months old it has no idea how to work that shit so it needs food liquid it or it already evacuated both or it wants to be held that's it yeah he either needs food or liquid or or it already evacuated both, or it wants to be held. That's it. It either needs food or liquid, or it's had too much food and liquid.

One of the two. It's coming out in a liquid, solid, or gas form. Right up their neck. Right up their neck. It's just the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost all coming out at the same time. Bingo, bingo. Clean it up. There you go.

Either that or bada-boom, bing it's coming so he would beat him almost daily they said he was the one who really took the bulk of it too his sister will say that the father the father beat robert about five times as much as the brother so it's like that much more yeah like it would be like you know monday through friday to beat the shit out of out of robert and then like maybe saturday afternoon he'd smack william around but it was definitely a five to one ratio that was his full that was his full-time job was beating him from i was monday through friday it's his main gig it's the funniest thing ever it's it's it's so terrible it's so terrible, you can't take it any other way. Because it's disgusting.

Five times more. Five times more. At least she had a thing. Wow. He nicknamed William, nicknamed, like I said, this is one of these things that if he was a good dad and he was joking, this wouldn't be that bad. This sounds like something my father would do, but in a a nice way like in a joking way and whatever he nicknamed rob robert and his brother quote sfb1 and sfb2 which means shit for brains one and two i'm sorry i know we're laughing at the horrible child abuse but this is just so outlandishly ridiculous it's like a comic it's like comic book child it's

crazy it's fucking crazy and it's it's such a boomer thing to call a kid yeah shit for brains hey shit for brains number two and he'd go yeah that was robert he's two because he's the younger one so not only are you shit for brains you're not even your own shit for brains you're shit for brains too right you don't even you don't even get like no yeah that's what i mean jesus christ and god damn you're not even that shit for brains name it doesn't want it's the same as somebody else you doesn't want to have to remember multiple nicknames the bigger one's number one the little one's number two you're both shit for brains fucking done what a dick i'm exhausted now i need to punch a kid yeah where's that baby bring him over here

bring where's shit for brains too wow so maybe if you didn't punch him in his brain so much maybe it would form properly doing well christ you've made it like that, sir. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one

and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell.

She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now

by joining Wondery Plus. So after his father returned from being stationed abroad, his family joins him while he attends an officer's candidate school in Georgia. So they move to Georgia. Everybody says just very, very, very cruel. By the time he was about four, it was at least like twice a week he would punch him with a closed fist, everybody said, at some point in the week. So Robert probably had mixed emotions when dad came home from being overseas. Like, oh, great. Oh, no. And I maybe not.

So and mom even says in her own words that she didn't protect him from the abuse at all. She just let it happen. Well, I mean, what are you going to do? Well, there's a reason for it. It's because he was beating the shit out of her, too. Right. So at what this is, this is fucking disgusting man this what a terrible human being this guy is once he was little we're talking under five and he accidentally

shit the tub during a bath okay which a kid will do once in a while it's a terrible thing but it happens he also probably has a lot of damage to his nervous system from being beaten for the past five years yeah probably doesn't control that well anyhow because yeah it's nuts what child abuse can do to a person well the father called him a filthy little boy and yelled at him then this is this is one of the worst things i've ever heard here made the child pick up the yeah excrement and rub it on his chest what on his own chest not his dad's he didn't say rub it all over me son on his own he said rub it on all over yourself there look what you did to like that's the worst that's so fucking disgusting i'd rather be the punishment is

bad enough to tell him pick it up and put it in the toilet i'd look at that and be like can you just punch me instead and then you'll clean it up because i don't want to do that just i'd rather take a punch i'm just saying if i put myself as a kid i know myself as a kid yeah you know my grandmother would pop you all the time so like a beating wasn't that bad of a thing for me like as a kid thinking about now it sounds insane but as a kid i was like i'd much rather be smacked around than fucking have to rub shit on myself. So anyway, his sister, Elena, said that the father was, quote, very scary is how she labeled the father. That's how you want your young daughter thinking of you is very scary. That's perfect.

She's going to find a wonderful man. I'm sure, you know, like you like you've programmed your kids very well. You got one shit for brains, one and two, and fucking, you know, you that find someone you're scared of. Okay, everybody good? Excellent. Everyone abused? Great. Oh, and mom, come here a minute.

Pow, let me punch you too. Like, this guy's a psychopath. Everybody in his orbit is catching some sort of damage. This is. Yeah. He just. Wow. She said he would hit her brothers and was also verbally abusive to them.

Obviously, shit for brains one and two. And she said that was when she was talking about the hit. The brother, you know, Robert, five times more than William. hit you know robert five times more than william and uh she said that in her opinion the father's behavior uh broke it basically broke him before he was ever be established as a person like he just destroyed i've already heard enough from six months to five years that will ruin you for quite some time quite some yes some dexter level shit like this is you this is bad. That's going to take years of therapy to fix. All right. Well, he had a lot of therapy, too.

We'll get into it. Robert began to have night terrors as a child. Oh. You know, because he's probably scared of his dad. There's a lot of psychology there. He said a puppet was trying to attack him. And they said, she took him to his child psychologist about it, I think.

And they said, describe the puppet. The puppet was basically just a sock puppet, but was wearing his father, the same coat his father wears. That's the night terrors he would have of a nightmare of a puppet dressed as his father attacking him. It's not,

it's not the puppet. It's his dad. Yeah. He's a little scared of dad here. Then he started getting weird, Robert, after this. Because to five years old, kids are still kind of in a nutshell, but they start to express themselves after that a little bit. And he had a G.I. Joe at that point, one of those big fucking 60s G.I. Joes,

the tall boys there. A big 22-ounce G.I. Joe they had. Deuce, deuce, you know what I mean? He had a G.I. Joe, and he would put it in the street in the line of where tires went on the cars, like in the line of the tracks. In the groove, yeah. To watch it get run over. So they didn't know if that was just, you know.

I mean, boys blow shit up we we do weird shit when we're kids yeah so that that's not considered really aberrant behavior but doing it alone just creepily sitting there watching a fucking gi joe get run over it seems less if it was like three kids doing it and they were like oh man look at that that would be different than what's going on here he's just like he's just sitting there experimenting yeah i'm controlling your life joe it's starts talking like kobra fucking and it's and it's a gi yeah yeah it's pretty bad so he uh would do that in uh december 1966 he's about five and a half years old that was when his dad left for vietnam after that because before that he had gone overseas and come back he had been stationed

different places he leaves for vietnam in 66 so um he returns from his first tour of duty when uh i guess robert's almost seven and they said that as soon as he got home for a little while, Robert immediately regressed in all of his development. Everything from academic to social to just completely turned into a different person. Because that's the cause of your issues. Yeah. He would have accidents in his pants, you know, started. Yeah. Just all the time.

and his pants you know started yeah just all the time um and if the father found out about it he would beat the shit out of him and make him wash his pants out in the bathtub and do all that shit so he definitely would you know make him think he did something horrible if the father disapproved of any of the children's manners at the table he would stab them in the hand with his fork what he would fucking stab his children with a fork that's if they were between that and a knife that's fucking dangerous if they were well-mannered if they weren't well-mannered he would you know someone reached for something he'd stab him with a fork in the hand and that was like a shit everyone knew that was the punishment, which was really wild. Psychotic. When Robert was 10, he had braces, and I guess the dad punched him in the mouth real hard and just tore his whole mouth apart because it got ripped up on the braces. Apparently one time, Robert was sitting in a chair, and he was doing something.

I don't know what they were doing academically or whatever it was. He was going over something with homework or something. And Robert missed a number in an equation or some shit like that that he was doing. And his dad punched him and knocked him out of the chair to the point where he drew blood. Drew blood from the punch. So for, you know mess not like hey try that again pal hey i don't think that was quite right let's let's go over one more time and see if you you know make sure you got it like how about that about being a fucking parent i'd really like to know what made him this was it vietnam or was he raised like this do you know what i mean he

was abusive before he didn't go to vietnam until they were five so it's a combination it's it's it happened to him i'm sure i mean that's the only explanation i got here probably or he's just a sick fuck either one but how crazy is that it's this is insane this is a crazy childhood this is a scare but scary childhood the psychology of like growing up like that and then inflicting that on another on another human being on a child is like i earned this that's what that that's what that entitlement is it's crazy that to that is nuts which shows a real lack of any inflection too you never thought to yourself wow that was really terrible what my dad did to me i'm never gonna do that to my kids you never thought you never had that thought or you're like i can't wait to have kids so i can beat them too like that's it's my turn wow no what a weird fucking

way to look at it you know that's really having compassion and caring about your kids enough not to punch them is seems pretty minimal yeah just really asking the bare minimum honestly it's not even minimal so i guess the father here would drink more heavily and more heavily as time went on and became increasingly more abusive as he drank more that's shocking real alcohol and you know alcohol and family abuse kind of go hand in hand don't they i mean let's be honest here like you know if someone's an aggressive fucking violent person and they're not going to calm down from booze usually that's only going to make it worse i haven't heard many people i'm sure they exist but i haven't heard many people that do this to their kids that don't

drink yeah and i haven't heard a lot of people go man that guy's a real asshole till you get him drunk and then he's great i've never never heard that either. Have you? Fucking hate that guy. Get him a drink. It's usually the thing that fixes all of this. You get like three scotches in him, and boy, he turns into a regular party. He's like John Candy. Nobody doesn't like him.

He's just a great, he's just a happy guy, man. No, you hear the opposite. Best guy I've ever met. He's great. Don't get him drunk. Three drinks drinks he turns into a monster he'll rape your sister i swear to god he'll just jump all over monster animal nuts he'll punch your grandma right in the face i swear to god on christmas eve he did it to mine

it's scary can't do it so um he did all of this the The family lived primarily in Florida during this time after post-Vietnam until Robert was about nine years old in 1970. Then they moved to Puerto Rico for about 11 months. So I gave him his first touch of some island life there, just not on a main land. He used to work as a bartender, the father. That's where he was in the military a little. He were in the military, worked as a bartender, the father. That's where he was in the military a little. In the military, worked as a bartender. Then he got stationed overseas and went to Vietnam and did all that. Always had an alcohol problem.

Always, though. His mom's a registered nurse, which nurses are great people and often pick assholes that they're trying to fix, too. That's another thing. That's why they want to be a nurse. They want to fix people. They want to help people and often pick assholes that they want to that they're trying to fix too it's another thing that's why they want to be a nurse they want to fix people you know they want to help people and fix them and that's not a bad thing to be it's a nice thing to be but it hurts themselves more than anybody else ever right so um she's a nurse she's also an alcoholic too so they're both big drinkers they both have a huge alcohol problem and And that's part of it, too, is mom doesn't control anything because, A, she's getting beat up, too. And, B, she's drunk, too, at the same time.

So also 1972, she received a prescription for Valium. And then she got into that. Oh, yeah, that with the alcohol, too. So she is flying. That's, yeah, that's it's two and two thirty in the afternoon you get home from school it's like mom sleep and don't wake her up you know type of thing and she's that that that that is a fascinating uh combination of things to consume when one already drops you yeah hit another one that drops you lower. That's Jesus. Fuck.

And then not surprisingly, right after she got the Valium in 1972, so she's drunk and on her Valium, she's run over by a car. Yeah, because she couldn't move. While intoxicated. Yeah. Run over by a car. So she lives, but she's hurt, obviously, by being run over by a car. that's she's she lives but she's hurt obviously by being run over by a car she um i guess the the kids always saw the the father beating up the mother that happened he didn't hide anything from anybody he was beating everybody right out in the open there was uh none of that shit going on here

they said that um everybody said all the siblings the the mom everybody said the father never praised robert for anything in any way never nurturing never anything because he didn't even think he was his he was shit for brains number two the one that's not even mine like didn't give a fuck about him whatsoever which is pretty wild the father this is how crazy the dad is okay we've heard a lot of crazy shit so far he was brazenly unfaithful brazenly um now well it doesn't get any more brazenly brazen than this he would drive by the house with a girlfriend and wave to the wife and kids that's how brazen i've heard a brazen before i'm not talking about going to their favorite

restaurant together and like acting like it's no big deal like you know hey that's the one we go to none of that shit drove by beeping the horn hong kong hi hi wife and kids no wave tawny please wave at the wife and kids the the only step above that is like getting a blow job while watching the cowboys in the living room yeah or be yeah just coming home and being like she's staying over tonight so you know try to get over as far as you can on the bed tonight when you go to bed we'll be in later couch i got i got some i got some trim coming about uh 1 30 jesus man. This guy is a... What a monster. He's a monster.

A monster. And you can't leave him because he's unhinged and you have no idea what he's capable of. Yeah, and she's on drugs. She's drunk and she's also abused. So, I mean, all three of those things. This is just a crazy toxic swirl of shit that just keeps going. It's a boiling cauldron. It never stops.

It's salty. It's more than that. It's disgusting. So it's got, like, cloves and shit in it. It's nasty. I think that's my mom's favorite cooking seasoning. Oh, God, I can't eat it. It's so awful.

I can't eat it, man. I ate it. What is that, clove in there? Picking them out of the ham. Why'd you do that? Clove, capers, anything like that. Oh, I love capers. I can't eat a caper, man.

Really? No. Oh, it's so good. One time I thought it was a pea, and I ate one, and I was like, bah, bah, that's not a pea. It's different, yeah. If you're expecting a pea that's a pea tastes like nothing a caper tastes like everything if you put all those

your brain is like is like an everything bagel in like the most simple form stuffed into a pea yeah here you go maybe they should advertise it it's an everything bagel from concentrate maybe that's where everything bagels come from one caper per bagel and it just it really fluffs up when you break it up like like weed you know sometimes your butt's pretty tight you break it up hey that guy really broke up nice put it in a blender they get real big they get big wow so he once introduced elena the young girl the little sister to a woman and said she's gonna be your next mommy wow so he's like i'm having an affair i'm gonna make sure it hurts the kids as much as possible not i'm gonna try to like you know make sure i an affair i'm gonna make sure it hurts the kids as much as possible not i'm gonna try to like you know make sure i hide it i'm gonna make sure it really destroys the

kids from the ground up really fucks them up good that is a fascinating woman that would be a part of that wow and she's like stand there and be like yeah hi sweetie like what the fuck after uh they finally though they end up getting a divorce that his mom and his dad william and laura which is thank god um at that point the father william he told his children quote now you're out of my life and i've never been so happy don't ever bother me i have not heard you enough this is wow this is absolutely bonkers i can't even i don't even know what to say about this man i've never been so happy don't bother me i'm gonna bang that woman who was waving at you from the right side of the fucking edsel last week i got you a new mommy now don't be in

our life now get out of here so after the mom leaves him she takes immediately takes the son here robert to a psychiatric clinic in long beach california because she takes the kids to california to get away from him they're in florida and she's, I'll go as far away as I can get. That's California. So in Long Beach, she takes him to a psychiatric clinic, what she called on and off for a long time, to try to fix this, or at least mitigate some of this craziness that's gone on in this poor guy's life at this point.

At one point, he actually went to live with his father. Why? What happened? I don't know how that happened because I picture him like the kid in parenthood with the bag under his arm. He calls his dad and then his dad's like, no, I'm currently about at least a tip into my girlfriend here. I can't possibly take care of you. But no, he goes to live there. He can't possibly take care of you.

But no, he goes to live there. But apparently what was said was the father was dissatisfied with everything that Robert did and sent him back to live with his mother. This kid's a piece of shit. Take him back. He's broken. This one's defective. And he sent him back on a plane. Wow.

That's incredible. I don't even know what to say about that. So the mom said that for some time she got child support from the father, actually. He paid like a good amount of child support. And then he got remarried and he reduced the child support to a super low level to the point where she couldn't afford to stay in her home. So she, the mom, the nurse, started to work for a construction company. So make it what? Because it was three ways and shit. It was made more money than her nurse job.

So she did that. Wow. Yeah. I guess she later married, got married to another guy. Jack McFarlane was his name, who actually helped her and paid for her, helped pay for her to go back to go to nursing school again to get another degree so she could do something better that she wanted to do. And she ended up, you know, calming down. No booze, no alcohol.

So, yeah. So Laura gets better here, which is good and becomes Laura McFarlane. And that's how that works. and that's how that works. But after he gets sent back from Florida with the dad, go back to his mom there, Robert has no more contact with his father for years after that. That's great.

Just gone. So now, what was Robert doing while all this crazy shit was going on? What was he doing when he wasn't being punched in the head? Let's see here. First of all, they were divorced officially in 1975 laura got remarried in 1984 so he was already 23 so the stepdad being nice isn't going to help robert at all doesn't matter so robert recalls drinking a small amount of beer when he was about eight or nine years old and he liked it he said he enjoyed what it did he said he felt a little you know fuzzy and it felt kind of good so then he said he would what it did. He said he felt a little fuzzy

and it felt kind of good. So then he said he would try it a little more and a little more because he liked the way it felt. And when he's 12, 13 in California, he said his alcohol use increased drastically when he moved back to California. This is when he was going to the psychiatrist

and all that. He was also drinking like a monster. Continuously, he said, he started smoking when he was 12 and he was going to the psychiatrist and all that. He was also drinking like a monster. Continuously, he said, he started smoking when he was 12, and he was already hard drinking, so what goes better with booze than a nice cigarette, you know? One of the other kids was like, you know, if you really want to feel good, I know you like drinking your gin, and I appreciate that. Your bourbon, it's very good, but if you really want something, try a Pal Mal.

I feel like you'll appreciate these a lot. Try a Chesterfield. What do you say? Really makes the booze go much faster to your brain. It's better that way. You're going to like it. So he was doing that. He's smoking.

He's drinking and all that shit. So the mom, Laura, she said she first saw Robert under the influence of drugs when he was 14 years old in 1975. So he picks up drugs in there pretty well. Started smoking weed when he was about 11. Awesome, man. It's the LBC. He was already hard drinking before that. So he was just looking for whatever he could get his hands on, as we'll talk about right here.

He's so into drugs and alcohol that he does terribly in school he ends up dropping out in the eighth grade oh no which i didn't know was legal i didn't even think i thought you had to be like 16 to drop out maybe they pass that law later on or you gotta be like emancipated to do that i don't know back then though there was probably some kind of like loophole for it because like if a farm kid wanted to, you know, I don't know what the hell it is. It's weird. But he said he eighth grade was the last time he went to school is what he did. So it was mainly just drugs and alcohol.

And so was his brother was into drugs and alcohol as well. His older brother, William. Yeah. How much drama in the LBC? Oh, my God. It's kind of hard being little robert what the fuck's his name edwards it's really hard being robert little eddie d it's hard really hard being shit for

oh man so him and his brother committed burglaries to get drug money at this point in time. Oh, my. I mean, he's like 14, 15 years old. This is a mess. This is bad. Remember the kids who did shit like that when you were 15, like to get drugs for themselves? That's a different. There was kids who sold drugs and kids who needed drugs. They usually get crossed. Different crimes, very much so.

So they would commit them anyway. So Laura here, the mom, she saw Robert's brother, William, drunk for the first time when he was about 14 years old, too. So this happened a lot. And a few years later, Elena, the sister, she had problems with drugs and alcohol, too. Oh, God. So all three of them have drug alcohol issues. And, I i mean both parents are alcoholics mom has a drug problem i mean it makes a lot of sense that's just what you saw in

the home cyclical yeah you saw it in the home and that's what it is so um he's also his paternal grandmother was they say he're addicted to ativan what is that really what is that yeah what is the drug oh it's ativan that's that's yeah i Ativan? What is that? It's a drug. Oh, it's Ativan. Yeah, I know exactly what that is. Never mind. It's a psychotic drug. Yes. It's something that people take for, it's kind of like, is it like Adderall, Ativan? I thought they used Ativan for, I thought that was depression, like in the 80s, they

used that shit for maybe. No, I could be wrong. I could be completely wrong. Adivan uses dosage side effects. What the fuck is it? It's lorazepam. I could be completely wrong. Side effects. What the fuck is it? It's, it's, it's lorazepam. Okay.

There you go. It's, it's like a, it's going to be like a, like a, like fucking Valium, isn't it? Yeah.

Okay. So it's a, some sort of mood enhancing drug. Okay. Yeah. That's what I'm wondering. All right. So disorder.

So yeah, so it's going to be like, it's a chill out. Yeah. It's going to be like Valium for your man. Chuck, chill out right there. That's what that is. That's going to be like... It's a chill out. Yeah, it's going to be like Valium. For your man Chuck, chill out right there. That's what that is.

That's going to happen. So Laura's mother was also addicted to Valium. Laura's... I'm sorry. Yeah. No, his paternal grandmother. So William, his father's mother, was addicted to Ativan. Laura, the mother, her mother, was taking Valium and Percodan as well.

Wow. So, I mean, drugs and alcohol just run rampant. Prescription. Yeah, through both sides of his bloodline here. Oh, shit. I mean, that's a lot here. And, yeah, all four of Laura's siblings, because she has four siblings, all had problems with alcohol. And another one of her sisters was addicted to Valium as well.

So, problems. Problems. all had problems with alcohol and another one of her sisters was addicted to valium as well so okay problems um problems he apparently didn't have a drug of choice robert everything everything like an open sewage fucking hatch just whatever falls in put it in there put it in it's all it all floats down here so uh that uh once he was exposed to alcohol and drugs he completely fucking lost control basically is what they say um they said that uh one of the uh doctors would say that he said there was something wrong with sobriety that's what he always thought and um something was wrong with how he felt all the time he always felt like so he would try to alter it is how it goes that's what he told the psychiatrist he began okay we talked about drinking well okay why would you need drugs to the point of robberies well because he began injecting drugs by the age of 13 14 which is why you drop out of the eighth

grade because you're shooting up that's a lot um this apparently is unusual. This is a very early age to do this. This isn't normal. This isn't, you know, like, oh, yeah, that's about 20 percent of kids. And I don't think I've ever met a kid 13 years old that was shooting shit into their face. No, 13 is really young for that. So even this one addiction doctor they talked to later on said that's, quote, quite unusual for that to be. They said it's indicative of extremely rapid progression of addiction he's very i mean that's has to be unless he started when he was seven he said uh a doctor said about all of what i just described to

you the childhood the upbringing uh what i interpret when i hear these stories is that something is really wrong with this kid something is really intolerable for him or her that something is really wrong with this kid. Something is really intolerable for him or her, that something is either happening in their home or, as we mentioned earlier, they are chronically dysphoric. They feel really bad. So all of that, I'd say, is happening there. Let's see, where do you start? I got punched in the head when I was six months old, so we'll go from there.

And it's been downhill since then. Yeah, no shit. So he went, like, immediately smoked smoked weed but then he got right into lsd got into cocaine he was doing meth uh any amphetamine he could get his hands on barbiturates fucking then finally heroin he was like yeah i like that so he would shoot coke he'd shoot heroin he'd shoot meth he'd do whatever whatever was was going on. Boy, oh boy. He threw his teenage years. It just got worse. He just more drugs,

more alcohol. Uh, he frequently, he would call this, uh, this is, uh, I don't know if this is what you do.

I don't know anything about much about shooting up because that's one. I don't, I don't fuck with needles ever. Yeah. I don't fuck with that shit at all. I don't like no powders, pills, none of that shit. I'm a strictly weed guy. So this is a little much, but this is from court documents later.

Quote, Robert frequently used a technique called jacking off when injecting drugs. Didn't know that was a thing. It's probably not. It's probably what one doctor called it and then put it in a report and acted like that's what everyone calls it. I don't know. Or does he mean for the use of drugs or like he shoots up to tug? I think he injects semen into his bloodstream probably. I don't know.

After injecting the drug, he would draw blood into the syringe and then re-inject it into his arm. and then re-inject it into his arm. He also called this technique, he also used a technique called shooting water, which involved attempting to collect and use any residue of a drug that might be left in a bag. So he'd just try to, yeah. So he'd end up, that's a drop. That's the shooter's equivalent of scraping the ball for resin.

Scraping a ball, yeah. Scraping the ball, yeah. It's immediately loaded up. Just gotta get it all. Get it all in there. What do we got oh yeah i've got a big chunk there that's a common thing to do though to back the back the syringe out to get the blood to mix it in there and then and then boost it because it that gets it going

already and then it hits it in and it's already jump-started terrible i'd want to get that out of my arm as soon as possible hang out in there and fuck with it let me pull it out put it back in let me hey no what am i a maestro with this shit conducting my bloodstream no you bloodstream stream the way it needs to stream i'm not gonna keep putting shit in there it's crazy i gotta reverse the flow of this no i don't know what's going on here ever mess with like a vacuum in a pool it starts going the wrong way like oh shit it's climbing out of the thing now what am i doing i don't want to mess with it i don't know what's going on here. Ever mess with like a vacuum in a pool? It starts going the wrong way. Like, oh, shit, it's climbing out of the thing now. What am I doing?

I don't want to mess with it. I don't know what's going on. So good. So a guy named Carl Stevens knew Robert in junior high school in Long Beach before he dropped out. He said he used to hang out with Robert a bunch. They hung out like 25 times outside of school. You know, a buddy that you'd hang out with on each occasion. It was always drinking alcohol or using drugs seventh eighth grade we're talking here so he

testified later he will say that he dropped out of school when he was in the eighth grade and then he did money doing day labor and odd jobs yeah so you're looking for a child a day laborer who's hooked on fucking heroin. I'll show up at like 1030 maybe and be kind of gone and maybe fall asleep and not off. 14 year old digging trenches. That's who I want on my crew. He experienced, he said, his first alcoholic blackout when he was about 16. He said various situations he remembers blacking out, such as being with friends,

making plans to go somewhere, and then suddenly finding himself walking alone in the street at 5 a.m. and not knowing how he got there. Shit like that. On another occasion, he found himself. This is crazy. This is some Robert Downey Jr.

in the fucking early 2000 shit here. Pre pre Iron Man RDJ shit here. Pre belovedIron Man, RDJ shit here. Pre-beloved Iron Man? Yeah. Well, remember he used to, he got on somebody's roof or something, didn't he? Oh my God, James. He was loathed in Hollywood because of his crazy antics. Yeah, he was on somebody's roof naked.

Well, this is worse. This guy, he found himself under a kitchen table in a strange house he woke up under a kitchen table not knowing where he was and then he just had to get out of the house because he was like fuck i'm in a stranger's house i broke into a house and sat under the table yeah he woke up to a b&e yeah oh shit i'm committing a felony i gotta run he said that there was never a time when he became aware of his surroundings after blacking out and he never had a reason to suspect that he had been involved in a violent crime while he blacked out he said never had blood on him or like not that it wasn't

his you know what i mean like maybe he'd break up with some scraped knees or some you know fell down or some shit but none of that when he was 18 he said that he injected what he called an unknown drug he just got something he didn't know what it was so he's figured what better way to find out than to inject it into my bloodstream jam it into my fucking arteries here what are you that's the craziest shit i've ever heard i don't know what this is yeah you would think the first you would never have to tell someone if they go i wonder what That's the craziest shit I've ever heard. I don't know what this is. Yeah. You would think the first, you would never have to tell someone if they go, I wonder what this is. You wouldn't have to tell them, well, don't inject it into your bloodstream to try to find out.

That just goes without saying, right? Toss them a spoon and they'll understand. I suppose. Give it a shot. I don't know what it is. Oh, no, this is Ajax. Don't do that. Oh, man.

Yeah. It's like up in smoke here. I just did a, then I made elephant noises. So he said from this, he, quote, thought he was going to die. He didn't know what it was. It was nothing that he thought. I don't know. He could have injected anything into himself. We have no idea.

That's what I mean. Who knows? I did find when he was 17 he was a in a motorcycle accident i found here it was in the newspaper he was riding and he lost control of his motorcycle and fell off and was injured it said so yeah because he injected baby powder yeah who the hell knows what he was on here so uh when he starts a little bit later he's in his late teens early 20s he and his brother started a business together oh great that's good enterprising right well it's not actually you would say you know you wouldn't encourage your son to do this they're selling fake lsd

that's what they're doing they got paper that looked like pay lsd and had little designs on it but there was no actual drugs on it. No, you just put it in your mouth. He testified, quote, wow, it's a safe way to make money without committing a crime. Well, wrong, wrong, and wrong. First of all, if you're selling someone fake drugs, that's not legal, number one. Number two, that's not safe because if someone finds out you sold them fake drugs and they find you, they're going to bash your fucking head in.

You can't do that. They're going to beat you like your dad. Unless you do it like Go and you sell it to nerds at a rave, then that's the only way you're going to get out of it. Otherwise, you sell it to a legitimate person that likes LSD. Watch the fuck out. Yeah. Remember what happened to, what's his name there? Bubbles' friend in the wire.

Remember what happened to him? Yeah, right. No mess around like that. No. Yeah, not a safe way to do anything. That's with fake money, but still. 1984, he's 23. He is convicted of a second degree burglary in California here. So he's, you know, you can only steal for drug money for so long before you get caught.

That's just how that goes. 1985, he has a son, Jimmy. Oh, what? Oh, my God. No, no, no, no. And his name, Robert Mark Edwards Jr. Really? Oh, he juniored him up just like a crime and sports athlete, man.

Oh, my. He'll go by Robbie, the son. What legacy do you need to pass? Yeah, I would think I need to fix a lot first. But, I mean, if you're also drinking and on fucking drugs all the time, you might slip one past the goalie. I don't think you're going to be that up to par in protection. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't think they sat down and said, let's have a family.

I don't think that's what happened. Sat down by the fire and said's have a let's do it yeah wow so he was born january 23rd 1985 and i guess from what everybody says he had made a lot of efforts to visit him talk to him by phone and letters he's uh everybody says including the son that he's a fucking really good dad a really attentive kind non-abusive never hits gives a very encouraging uh they always say he's trying to teach his son self-esteem all the time like always like no you're good and all this type you know don't rub poop on your chest yeah that's not good basically doing the opposite of what his father did like

complete opposite so that's what happens if you're abused bad you either do that again or you do the complete opposite there's only two ways that reaction seems like there's a line though like it has to be so extreme before you get to that other side and you go well i will never inflict this pain and punishment upon another human being this is fucked up i think it's just how much it affects you how much you were affected by it is probably a big part of it um takes a lot of self-realization to find that though so good on him for finding that absolutely uh december 1985 robert is in a motorcycle accident another one here and he hurts his leg and has surgery on his right leg so he's got his leg in a cast for like the whole first few months of 1986 he's got his leg in a broken leg james yeah he's it's fine he had to

have surgery on how to have it put together again with fucking shit you know screws and shit yeah so 1986 comes along spring of 1986 robert meets katherine valentine how does he meet her yeah well like every great love story starts jimmy he was selling fake lsd at a bus stop isn't that how you met emily right that's how i met sarah yeah i said hey yeah you want some lsd and she was like that doesn't look right and i was like wow she's fucking good man was it. I looked in her eyes and I knew it was time. So she had drove. He was out there slinging LSD and at the bus stop. She drove by in her pickup truck, just saw a guy with a cast at the bus stop and offered him a ride.

Wow. Hey, ladies, don't do that ever. That's how Ted Bundy murdered many fucking people like that. Don't do that ever that's that's how ted bundy murdered yeah many fucking people like that don't do that at all that is bad well he would ask for help and that that means yeah he's looking for people but if this guy's just struggling and going about it and not asking for help probably safe we can pick yeah maybe that's true but he could be trying to look pathetic over there you don't know dropping books and shit oh no just no i got it swiping at him with a crutch like trying to get him out of the street so no but she stopped she what a nice person by the way uh katherine valentine is stop sees a guy

with a cast this is in long beach this isn Mayberry. You know, this is like you're a nice person, man. That's really nice. She offers him a ride and they begin dating after that. Wow. How lucky can you be? This guy, he's sitting at a bus stop with a cast on his leg trying to sell fake acid and a fucking woman literally comes to you, picks you up and begins dating you. That's amazing.

That's a miracle. Stay off of dating apps and just wait till it fucking comes to you. That's what it is. Break your leg and stand at a bus stop. What kind of, what are you talking about here? The minute you stop looking,

it finds you. It finds you at a bus stop. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app

or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Mor follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts so uh they begin dating she gives him a key to her truck wow key to my truck and key to my heart yeah there you go told him chevy and heart got the same amount of letters see that remember the heartbeat of america remember that and commercial yeah that's the one yeah so uh even told him there's a spare key in the little you know hide a key magnetic thing underneath the truck too told him where that was too just in case you never know uh introduced him to her mother even her mother marjorie here marjorie deeble is her name at her brought him over to her house, to Marjorie's house and talked about, you know, met him and whatever.

He another time he was over at the house there at the mother's house, helping her and his girlfriend load Debbie's car for a weekend trip for her to go to Palm Springs or for them both to go to Palm Springs. I'm sorry. Both meetings. Very cordial. Everybody gets along. Mother doesn't hate him. That's a good sign. So she there. This is March of 86 when they start dating. And for about, you know, two months, they saw each other every every evening. They were an item, you know, hanging out, seeing each other every every evening they were an item you know hanging out seeing each other doing their thing robert when they went to palm springs the mother and daughter robert borrowed the truck because they weren't going to use it so he borrowed the truck when they returned from palm springs the the truck was it was all fucked up apparently something had died

on it i don't they said a generator died on it or something. Do trucks have generators? Well, back then they may have. It's just the alternator. Okay, that's what I mean. Does she mean alternator was what I was going to say. So anyway, that happens. And I guess the mother said to tell him to take it to the dealership for repair. And, you know, no anger or anything.

Just, you know, something something happened so take it into the dealership and everything like that uh the mother here marjorie even paid for it gave him a blank check for uh just to with the you know made out to the dealership but write the write the amount in whatever you put the repairs i don't care yeah well whatever they could cost that's what you got to pay so um yeah that was it there was but no ill will no anger no anything like that it was all good it wasn't his truck it's you know if she was driving at the alternator would have fucking died it's not like you can make an alternator die really probably it doesn't matter how you drive the alternator usually just keeps doing whatever it does yeah until it doesn't that's it right until it stops doing it that's how they work it's not like

oh man jesus you were did you take the side road? Well, no wonder the alternator died. Jesus, you were taking side roads. Told you they haven't graded that road. It knocks out everybody's alternator. Just bang, gone every goddamn time. Actually, one time, Robert and his girlfriend here, Valentine, they went into Marjorie Diebel's house when she wasn't there and got it on as a matter of fact they had like a you know it's probably a nicer house more room um he continued

that sounds like he's doing great in life doesn't it like uh terrific he's cleaned himself right up well no he hasn't he continues to use drugs and alcohol during this whole time but he figures out how to compartmentalize it so she doesn't really see it. She didn't know anything about drugs. So he would do drugs separate of her. He'd go in another room. He'd go in the bathroom. He wouldn't like rub it.

She's not aware of what he was doing when she met him? Not really. And then later on, she's aware of it, but he keeps it to the side, and he's a nice guy. So she's like, I don't know. I guess it's okay. I think that's what she's thinking at one point at her request he let her

watch him inject cocaine into his system here so she said let me watch you do it I want to see what it is what are you doing to yourself here yeah but she said she only saw him inject cocaine the one time and only witnessed him drinking once as well. So she kept it separate.

And she said she never saw him passed out, never saw him blacked out on drugs or alcohol or any of that shit. He was around her. He was a different person than he was, you know, selling fake acid at the bus stop like a weirdo. So May of 1986, Marjorie deeble is killed she's murdered okay uh she's murdered in her home and um when when she's found robert uh and valentine her daughter were visiting his aunt and uncle they were you know together uh it was in town but uh you know in in los angeles in the los angeles area visiting his aunt and uncle uh she said valentine said i have to go

to the los alamitos police department because something happened to my mother and they just called me and i gotta get over there so i guess valentine and robert they drove to the police station together robert waited in the lobby while she went in to talk to the detectives about you know her mother being found murdered in the house we'll talk about it's brutal um and after a few minutes he could hear her crying in there and um she also the daughter valentine she identified she was looking at photographs of her mom when she was alive and identified certain jewelry that she was wearing in photographs that that aren't there now that weren't in the house so they were saying do an

inventory tell us what if anything was stolen because that's important for a lot of reasons to find out who the fuck did this and why they were there so um they i guess after that they uh they uh they continued to date robert and uh and valentine continued to date for a couple of weeks after the death and then it petered out you know those chicks with their dead mothers it gets real you know that grief oh jeez i gotta with this shit sit and watch her mourn and be sad she cries jesus forget about trying to shoot cocaine over here can you keep it down i jumped i'm trying to put it in a needle into my vein it's hard to do every time you you i fucking miss it's a kind of scumbag so i'm out of coke i'm gonna have to

shoot jack daniels yeah fuck it i'll do it i'll then i'll take it out put it back in again so they valentine asked him to attend the funeral with her and he said that's a little too heavy for me i'm not fucking getting involved in all that this was when they started kind of drifting apart and he was like ah this is a lot of heavy shit here talk about short-sightedness like i don't know there's gonna be a funeral and That's a lot. I don't feel like doing this. You know, she's going to be sad for like a couple of months is a lot, man. So then they drifted apart but remained on good terms. It wasn't like she he didn't do anything bad to her. They didn't none of that shit. Like it was just he was they just drifted apart and became friends after that. He did refuse the police because he knew her and anybody who'd been in the house ever. He refused police requests for blood, urine, and hair samples. He would not give those. But the reason why is because he said, I don't have any mobility. I can't bend my right knee.

My leg is fucking destroyed. I can't even put my full weight on my leg. I can't run. I didn't on my leg i didn't i can't run i'm not if i didn't fucking kill this woman so i'm not gonna bother doing that for you so um on the night of may 12th this is the night she was killed so like well where were you on may 12th so he says well that's an easy one me and my brother were selling fake lsd outside of the judas priest concert i couldn't make that up if i fucking tried selling fake assSD outside of the Judas Priest concert. I couldn't make that up if I fucking tried. Selling fake acid outside the Judas Priest concert

is the most 1986 thing I've ever heard in my life. We were at Hellbent for leather. Mullet flowing on these guys. Priest t-shirt kicking with a denim jacket. A fucking Iron Maiden patch on the back of it. Rock on. It's a great band yeah sure yeah good shit i read a book i think their guitar player wrote a book i read it's pretty interesting actually how that band yeah it's interesting shit um so they left for the concert at about 4 p.m

damn they were gonna get there early watch wait to get people on the way in yeah tailgaters they got home they got back about 11, 1130. So that's as they put in a seven-hour day. They put a shift in. They were there longer than Judas Priest was there. Get a fucking job if you're putting a shift in. Yeah. So you drove in L.A. traffic to get downtown, did a seven-hour shift, and then drove fucking all the way back.

That's called working. Just go get a job. That's not illegal. what are you doing they're not like oh i i you know i go out on the corner for an hour yeah i go out on the corner for an hour and a half yeah so i mean it's not i go out on the corner for an hour and a half i come home with 10 grand how could i turn that down it's not that this is we worked a full shift selling fake acid at the Priest concert. I guess it's all profit is the thing, so whatever. But it's still a lot of effort to make literally not much money. No.

They drank booze all throughout the concert. They got drugs, and they used their money to buy drugs. Robert went home to inject cocaine and heroin and to drink. So that's his cocktail. That's a sick night, James. They made enough money to go in and watch the concert, too. didn't go home and did drugs that's he drank at the concert through from the outside they had booze like flasks with them little bottles of booze they were drinking while they're selling shit uh no time um that week was he ever that he said he was never at

marjorie deebill's residence this case just goes unsolved. It goes unsolved. That's all they got. That's all they got. They can't find it. That's it. Now, November 1988, he's convicted of taking or driving an automobile without the consent of an owner, which sounds like stealing. That sounds like the definition if you said what's stealing.

Sounds like Grand Theft Auto is what that sounds like. Very much so. That sounds like Grand Theft Auto is what that sounds like. Very much so. So in 15 years he's been in California, roughly 74 to 89, he's been convicted 18 times of crimes. Shit. 18 times. He violated parole, probation.

He's a mess. So at this point he is still on parole and he decides to move to Hawaiiaii which by the way is not allowed if you're on parole how did he do that he just picked up and went to hawaii that was it um he moved to hawaii to be with his sister elena to stop using drugs that was the thing his sister had cleaned up her act and he she said come here and clean up your eyes a fucking island you can't go anywhere yeah you have to find it and it's crazy it's hard to find yeah he attended na meetings narcotics anonymous he attended aa meetings um he remained drug and alcohol free for seven or eight months he's working for a roofing company uh craig for uh furtado a roofing contractor in maui met uh him here they met because furtado lost his briefcase at an airport on maui and it contained valuables he needed the

brief it was like you know whatever um robert found the briefcase found the guy's information his business card inside called him up to return it wow they met nothing was missing from the briefcase and robert refused any reward for it he just said no that's ridiculous i just called anybody would do that like okay totally different than 18 fucking burglaries and everything else so selling fake acid for free money yes big difference between injecting heroin and cocaine, Robert, and sober Robert is a very large chasm in between those two things. So, yeah. So this guy was so impressed by that. He hired him. He's a roofing. He owns a roofing business. Hired Robert on to be a roofer. So there you go. He said that he worked there for about five months. He called him a hard worker who was prompt and honest and got along with everyone. That big word, honest.

That means everything to this guy. Yeah, absolutely. That's how he nailed the job interview. That's it. He just returned something, didn't steal from the man. Another guy or woman, I'm sorry, Geraldine Jakeway. She says she met him on Maui in about 1992. She was in a wheelchair and often swam at the beach.

One occasion, there was no lifeguards there to carry her to the water. That's what the lifeguard she knew would carry her to the water from the chair. So she asked a group if anybody there could help her. And he immediately volunteered and also waited around and assisted her out of the water when she was done swimming. She said she saw him on several other occasions where he would always assist her in and out of the water again because they were friends now. That's nice. Another guy, William Farmer, he met Robert in about 1989 on Maui at an N.A. meeting or an N.A. dance.

They had the big N.A. dance. The ball. Yeah, the ball. The N.A. ball. That's very fucking nice they immediately became friends and farmer hired him to do construction work for him this is before the roofing job so uh robert was a very religious person at this time he's described as religious loyal and hard-working is how this guy describes him Linda Lauer. She says she met him in late 89, early 90. She's working on a research project for the Hawaii Department of Health. Lauer was a community health outreach worker, and she was trying to prevent the spread of

AIDS by educating people on and assessing IV drug use between people and their sexual partners and basically trying to track how it goes. This is still the 89 people. This was the research wasn't all in yet. So also inform people how this shit spreads, because that was a big problem. People were freaking out. So she said getting IV drug users to answer lengthy questionnaires was difficult because she said the nature of the IV drug users and the illegal things they do.

They didn't want to admit it on paper. So he was the first person to be agreed to be interviewed. Robert, she interviewed him at his apartment one evening. She said she didn't feel threatened or vulnerable. He was very nice and went about their business. And she said he appeared to be clean and sober, responded thoughtfully to deeply personal questions. Then he encouraged other people he knew in the program to participate. And she said it opened up the project for us on Maui. So helping people a lot. Then he began to for six to 12 months in 1992, he lived in that William Farmer's house, the guy he met at the N.A. dance.

And problem is, one night he came home drunk, came home shit-faced, Robert did, which was against the house rules. And Farmer said that Robert did not appear to even be the same person anymore. He was a completely different guy. Farmer said he felt threatened, he felt scared. And the following morning, i guess robert had

left after farmer told him to leave he came back the next morning in a sober state and had no recollection of anything that happened he was like what are you talking about yeah so um he said farmer said he appeared genuinely surprised when he was informed that he was not welcome in the home anymore he was like what are you talking about i didn't do anything this is where i live so um yeah so he begins using again that was the problem he uh so at this point he becomes homeless as well so he's got a lot more problems now uh elena at the time uh she was a few years clean and sober at this point. She'd been doing well. She'd been doing a lot. And she said that she tried to help him and everything like that. But it was difficult.

The girlfriend of his, now he's using again. When he's using, though, he always has a girlfriend. He picks up. It's really weird. A woman named Naomi Lindeman, she that uh she met him on maui uh they i guess had a relationship a romantic one for a while and then it ended and one night after they had broken up he called her up and sounded real drunk and asked her to come over and she said no i don't want to fucking come he tried to booty call her and she said no i don't fucking comment no i don't think so she awoke later on she was awoken i should say to find

robert actively trying to insert a wine bottle into into her rectal area oh my god okay um she stopped it from happening and told him to get the fuck out of the house obviously didn't call the police or anything though just told him to get the fuck out um another time in 1990 after this incident he's arrested in hawaii for attempting to stab a woman can't do that and he's charged with assault except once he arrested, he rings up on the system in the whole country, continental U.S. as well. And so back in the mainland. So he's never charged for this in Hawaii because he is yanked back to California on a parole violation for being in Hawaii. They didn't even know he was in Hawaii until now. So he ends up going back to do that. And they just dropped the attempted stabbing in Hawaii because they're like, California took him back.

He's locked up. Fuck him. So he gets out in 1991 and goes back to Hawaii. So he brings a girl with him back there. What? And they buy an apartment. I don't know if she has money or what in kihei's world wow this guy yeah that is crazy on fucking maui on maui this is crazy homeowner

this is when he's working for uh for the roofing guy as well here uh this is different this is pat's roofing different roofing company here old He's working with Pat's Roofing. Jesus Christ. Anyway, he's working with that, working as a roofer. Everybody said he was considered normal by his colleagues and everything like that. But drugs he's getting into. His cousin Vincent Portillo lived on Maui for a month in 91-92. And one night he,

Robert and Robert's girlfriend, Brenda, different girl. Now, um, all drank really heavily. They got into a vehicle with Robert driving and Brenda in the passenger seat. They said that Brenda and Robert argued.

And then, uh, Brenda hit him several times is what this guy witnessed. She said, Robert didn't hit her back, but he was trying to block hits and drive at the same time. And he said it was weird because he didn't even appear to be upset with Brenda. Like after that, it was like, well, that's normal. People hit me, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. David Long, another guy. He said that he knew Robert for about a year in 1992. And he said he watched Robert ingest drugs and alcohol nearly every time he saw him. It's falling apart. Janice Hunt here. Rossi, Janice Rossi.

Janice Hunt, she said she dated Mark Edwards in Hawaii as well. This is summer 1992. They started talking there, and uh you know their date they're dating and he'll move in later on in 1990 he moves into her house in december 1992 she has a 12 year old daughter as well so he's moving into a house with a daughter now too so but everybody says he's amazingly nice to kids and, you know, very nice. So that year he tried to get ahold of his dad and during the summer he got ahold of his dad and they started talking again. Okay. He even got a Christmas card in December,

1992 that was signed. Love dad. He said it's the first time his dad's ever said love to him in his life and ever. They gave him a Christmas card. He's fuck you up. He's over the moon about this. Like he is fucking thrilled. Absolutely thrilled.

Then that in late December, I think it's December 19th, I believe. Nineteen ninety two. His dad, who was a pilot, small planes because he was a pilot in the service there his dad's plane crashes and he dies oh my god he got one time like a week after he got the christmas card his dad's week after his dad told him he loved him he died gone so this is bad stuff uh janice said his demeanor immediately changed like he was instantly changed. He became quiet and depressed. She said he drank more heavily now than before.

Sometimes he would have blackouts from being so drunk again. She described two incidents. One, he left his work truck at night uh the next morning they had to go search for the truck because he didn't know where it was because he was blacked out he's like i left my truck somewhere beats the shit out of me where no they had to find it and no no low jazz that's the thing no gps another time when he apparently left a bet he left a bag of groceries outside all night she just he just went shopping came home and left the groceries in the car didn't bring them in so just got home got out of the car and went in the house super fucking weird man um uh very very strange and uh the evening of january 25th here, 1993. Make sure you remember that here.

He is at home, or I'm sorry, Janice is at home with her daughter and with Robert. Between 8 and 8.30 p.m., a friend of Robert's informed him that his dog had been killed. Okay, Robert's dog. She said he found the dog on the road, held it it and sobbed in the street holding the dog uh then they buried the dog at sea right then that night they went out and buried the dog at sea um just over the guardrail that's all there he goes bye fluffy so he um she returned home with her daughter she went to bed between 11 and 11 30 and he wasn't home yet he did return home before morning but he's like i gotta get you know clear my mind and do all that shit so the next day um they hear about something that happened

very nearby them in the neighborhood a murder occurred that night oh so we'll talk about that she's where was he um she uh he went to a guy named robert uh he went to a guy named Robert he went to a guy's apartment that he knows, talked about his dog and injected a half a gram of cocaine that was him when he left, the friend said he was more high with drugs and alcohol than he'd ever seen him before

not good so that's a time there, 11pm he leaves about 5 o'clock in the morning he comes home. So in there, he's out there somewhere. Six-hour window just completely wasted. So that night, a woman named Muriel Hart Delbeck, D-E-L-B-E-C-Q. She goes by Stevie is her nickname.

She's 67 years old. She's originally from Indiana. She lives lives here she's a real estate agent she is a realtor in Alaska and then she spends a few months each winter on Maui she's a very successful real estate agent look at her well look at her she got strangled that night

and even worse she from what I found she was from Whittier California originally Oh, no. So apparently they're not married. I don't know if he died or if they're divorced or what. But judging by the fact that she spends her winters in Hawaii, they're probably divorced. She's doing great. at Delbeck's first floor condominium on Kano street in, uh, Kihei in Maui. And, the following morning about seven 30,

she knocked on the door and didn't get any response. The front door was closed and locked. So the daughter here, Peggy, she used a key to enter. First thing she sees is blood on the carpet. Yeah. Sees that the living room phone is missing as well.

Just gone. Um, and back then everybody had a house phone in the living room. That missing as well just gone um and back then everybody had a house phone in the living room that's just how it was also her mom's door bedroom door was closed and locked so this is weird blood nothing is right so she ran outside and told a neighbor to call 911 and then climbed in her mom's bedroom through a window there was a comforter over the window i don't i think that was to keep the light out for the mom so she could sleep it was so it was pitch black in the bedroom she can't see shit lights off comforter over the window the light switch didn't work one of those where you got to turn a switch on a lamp so um you know light

switch has a weird plug that's not in a good place to put a lamp or one of those broken you're one of those so uh the daughter peggy she opens the bedroom door to get some light in and what she finds is her mom on the bed under a pile of blankets she's lying on her back completely naked uh no clothes and uh her legs are spread apart her hands and feet are not bound um there are palm prints in blood on the wall uh there's a bloody footprint found on a white t-shirt nearby uh her room was ransacked the carpet was soaked with blood cigarette butts on the floor in the bedroom in the bedroom in the bathroom all over the place um the daughter said that she always wore her wedding ring and there was no jewelry on her when they found her but there was a white mark around her left

ring finger so the ring used to be which sounds like her dad died that's what that sounds like her husband died is what that sounds like so they they were being, I guess, they got locked out once in December 1992. So the mom told the daughter that she was going to hide a key under a rock outside the condominium. So that ended up happening. But the window screen in the living room was bowed and damaged. So that's what they found out was probably the entry point. So it appeared the screen had been taken out and put back in improperly by someone who doesn't usually do it there. Pieces of dried grass were on the windowsill and on the floor underneath the windowsill.

That makes sense. Climb in a dumpster near the residence. Police found a bloody pillowcase with a pattern that was consistent with the murder as well with the bedding. I'm sorry, not the murder. The pattern on the on the actual bedding was consistent with her bedding. So same flowers in the pillowcase there. The police found a variety of items, including a check for an account held by Muriel and Peggy Ventura, Muriel Delbec and Peggy Ventura.

They found traveler's checks, two telephones that the daughter identified as being her mother's, two pieces of telephone cord tied together. That's not a good sign. Cut clothing, so her clothing, but it was cut off of her. A flashlight, a wine bottle, two beer cans a seattle seahawks game schedule what are you doing i got need this i need that i'll steal that and i have to know who the seahawks are playing in week six what the fuck are you doing in the middle of a murder from the

jerk did this yeah it's what it is it's a strange call a golf tag golf te. He's a golfer now. Dishwashing liquid, a stain remover, like a bottle of that, shampoo, lotion, disposable razors, and scissors. He just trick-or-treated all that into a pillowcase? Into a pillowcase here. Now, Peggy, the daughter, she said that her mom, wearing her swimsuit, walked to the beach about four blocks away every morning she said she'd walk down there so the one of the police that searched her apartment or i'm sorry ended up searching robert's apartment found binoculars on a small table located directly beneath the bedroom window that faced muriel delbeck's residence. Oh, shit. His Janice, his girlfriend, had a pair of binoculars by this window because she said

she liked to watch whales because she had an ocean view. It also looked right at her house, Muriel Delbeck's house. So that's a problem. But she said, well, that was for me to watch whales. So, yeah, they found that using these binoculars, he could see what type of vehicle was entering and leaving the parking lot of Delbeck's building. That's how perfect they was. I was on there. So what happened to poor Muriel Stevie? I'm sorry here. Dr. Alvin Amore conducted the autopsy, said that her head and right ear were bruised. There was bruising to the scalp caused by blunt trauma.

Her nose is fractured. There's bruises to her lips and tears to the inner portion of her lips, like being punched in the face and having your teeth cut your lips if you've ever been punched in the mouth. On her head. Yep. Indicating force've ever been punched in the mouth. Sustained assault on her head. Yep, indicating force or pressure was placed over the mouth area. Her neck was bruised. Her hyoid bone, which is above the voice box, that's the one you can tell if you've been strangled or not, that is broken as well. The skin over the voice box had an incised type of abrasion as well, caused by a sharpened or pointed object being scraped horizontally across the skin.

Yikes. Holding a knife to someone's throat and going a little too hard, something like that, they're thinking here. Also, similar abrasions appeared on the lower portion of the left neck, the left anterior chest around the breast, the breast area, including including the nipples of both breasts there's little cuts everywhere uh both breasts were bruised as well a puncture wound over the left lower chest ligature marks on her wrists and ankles and ankles indicated that she had been bound even though when they found her she she wasn't. But they found tied telephone cords in a pillowcase. Pretty good indicator, yeah. But that's where it is. I'm going straight court documents on these now, guys.

So this is nothing that I'm saying here. Nothing in my own words here. The genital area had a pattern of abrasions or scraping of the skin consistent with fingernail marks. The entrance to the vaginal cavity was bruised, and there were internal injuries to both the vaginal and rectal areas. There were two perforations in the vaginal cavity. The first perforation extended into the rectal cavity. Think about that.

This is fucking horrible. The second, this gets worse, Jimmy, so buckle up, everybody. This is terrible. The second perforation was to the right upper portion of the vaginal cavity and extended into the abdominal cavity. The perforation was caused by a can of hair mousse. Mousse, styling mousse to put in your hair. Hair mousse. Mousse.

Styling mousse to put in your hair. It was a can of mousse that was found half into her abdominal cavity, shoved inside of her. Oh, my God. It was still in there. Yeah. You could see it from the outside. No, from the stomach. That's how it was coming. Oh, God.

It's fucking horrible. This is just awful. The rectum was torn. The bowel was perforated into the abdominal cavity. There was visible bleeding in everywhere in here. All sorts of fucking blood. I'm not going to read the details of the blood. The injuries here appeared to happen before death as well.

These injuries. This isn't postmortem. They said the most probable cause of death was asphyxia or lack of oxygen due to strangulation and or suffocation. The injuries to the vaginal area as well as the rectal tear were a contributing factor, but were not life-threatening by themselves at the time she was strangled. They would have been later, obviously. But, yeah, so this is somewhere the night of january 25th um just absolutely fucking horrible she's robbed as well um it's oh she also she also shaved off her pubic hair as well he that's what he did he shaved off

her pubic hair as well because they found like hair around yeah they think he did that post-mortem what why what are you doing i don't i don't understand people's sick fucking minds sometimes man this is i was just reading this a really detailed book on jeffrey dauber and it's like one of these things are like what are you doing man what the fuck is your problem and the details are awful but it's like you you kind of have to know to know really the level of depravity that somebody went to in this. It's fucked, man. You can't just say brutalize this woman did all this. That's but you need to know how sick.

What the fuck are people thinking or what? That's the psychology of it. It's messed up, by the way. Quickly. No, I'm not going to get into that. messed up by the way quickly no i'm not going to get into that anyway he um she by the way uh a real estate agent as well like we said heritage real estate in anchorage is where she she uh works um here so there are people there find out about it freak out um anyway back to bad stuff here um after he encountered her he proceeded to tie her to the bed he beat and strangled her to death and um

inserted before she was even totally dead he inserted the moose can in there and then shaved off her pubic hair and that's when he started stabbing little parts of the body that's why they weren't more bloody because she was already dead so that's when he was just mutilating carving a little here cutting just doing fuck man all sorts of weird shit then he stole uh her wedding ring and several items of clothing uh including panties and a bra so now we're getting into btk territory here uh which is he dumped in the trash bin and they found her body was found like we said by her uh by her uh daughter this is crazy shit. So anyway, the evidence they have, how they know it's him,

his palm print made in the fucking dead woman's blood was recovered from the wall in the hallway of her house. So just right on the wall. His fingerprints, which were found all over her house, and he didn't know her, his right footprint, which matched a footprint impression made in her blood on a T-shirt found on the floor of her condo and results of DNA analysis of a glob of saliva found

in the dead woman's bathtub. So he spit in the bathtub for some reason that matched his DNA. Oh, and if that's not enough, a pubic hair found on a pillow in her condo that matched his pubic hair as well. It's a lot. Yeah. There's no way to really refute that.

Well, you can't, like, people will say, like, Stephen Avery, they planted the blood. OJ, they planted the blood. You can't plant a bloody handprint. He's there and a bloody footprint. can't plant a bloody handprint that's he's there and a bloody footprint he is in the fucking house unless they took the drywall to him blacked him out put blood all over him and put it on there then reinstalled it he's there period so he's arrested february 2nd 1993 he's arrested being held on half a million dollars bond and uh you know everyone's like that nice guy because some of the people know him as the nicest guy in the world some of them know him as a you know kind of a drug

addict and uh he's charged with two counts of first degree sexual assault robbery kidnapping and of course murder so yeah there's a lot here um that was a lot just to break away from that for one second uh because the next thing is pretty rough too um i have to say right under this article about her being found it's literally connected to it uh maui woman the whole thing sexual assault all this shit right underneath it school menus for the week here anybody hungry on friday you can choose between chef salad subs cheeseburgers chicken noodle soup and then you can have fries and green beans as well uh there's chili and crackers in the monroe greg schools peanut butter sandwich and celery sticks fruit and milk so uh yeah there's that everything you'd expect to be in a school it's there just want you to know in the newspaper

after we've told you about one of the worst things that's ever happened on this island. I'm going to check what the menu is and read about a horrible murder. Okay. So the Maui Community Correctional Center here, Sergeant Herbert Aguilar, he said that when he first met Robert, when he he came to the facility he was dirty very thin had long hair hair his eyes were always moving like he was trapped somewhere he's injecting cocaine into his system that's what happens he's those withdrawals yeah aguirre said he was very leery of him and his first impression was quote dirtbag yeah that's beautiful or shit for brains you can pick too maybe his dad was right he just had maybe his dad was just prescient so he uh then he said he started cleaning himself up he got a

haircut started eating better he's not doing drugs in jail he's doing better because it's regular jail it's not like prison uh aguilar then described him as a model inmate whom he said was never disrespectful to anybody. And Robert began working on his GED. Another, Reverend Diane Winter, who's a ministerial counselor, met him while conducting classes and counseling inmates at Maui Community's Correctional Center. He took classes with her, and she called him respectful, kind, and interested in learning. She perceived him as not genuine and not manipulative in class.

She observed him with his girlfriend, Janice Hunt, because she was still visiting him for some fucking reason, and he was kind, respectful, and loving. She said that he cried sometimes while being very depressed. She said that he would break down and cry because he said he didn't remember what he'd done.

He told her that if he did kill this woman, that he's a monster. And he also said, if I had done that, it's horrible and I shouldn't be allowed to live in society. And he would ask this woman to pray for that family and said, we'll pray together and he'll, she said, we'd pray together and he'd cry. If, James, your handprint is in blood sir yeah there's not that's a crazy blackout man um he took

responsibility for his addiction not the murder he said that he uh he did not offer drugs and alcohol as an excuse is what he says now keep that in mind that's what he says now and he's respectful to the to everybody in jail uh gets his ged he enjoys art and all that bullshit so fuck what do you great the uh the the adult educator there called said he had a great mind and was interested in reading at a much higher level than a GED and all this shit. Also called him a gifted writer. Gifted. He participates in NA and AA meetings while in custody and encourages others who were not in custody to stay sober. Also, could not guarantee that he would not be under the influence of drugs and alcohol,

but he said, I take my sobriety one day at a time. He's saying all the right shit. let's find out how little it matters so um the difference is after he's arrested in the maui case the los angeles you know of police start recognizing some really really big similar similarities in a crime scenes in a 1986 murder that they have of of Ms. Diebel. Remember her? Yeah. Her girlfriend's mom.

They said both the murders very close in signature. We'll get into exactly how details of the actual women were extremely close. They were in a few years of age of each other. There are 10 years in age, but they were both, one was in her 50s one was in her 60s. They're both realtors and their initials are MED. Both of these women.

Both of these women's initials are MED. Both of them were tied with telephone cords and both of them were sexually assaulted with cans of hair mousse. Very specific. You went after mousse in the first one, too? We'll talk about it. And strangle.

Oh, my. Jim McNamara. You ever heard of him? No. FBI guy? FBI profiler guy? Have I heard of him? I think maybe you have.

He said that they look for details. That's basically how they're going to find signatures's just in case people don't know this. He says we are criminally criminal investigative analysts. We look for details. If someone has to stab a victim 45 times, that's a specific kind of ritualistic killing. It makes you a little overprotective of your family, but that's natural. So he joined the profiling unit at Quantico in 1995. But Robert is the one that got him into it here.

He was based in the Honolulu office for eight years, and he said that we deal with a lot of bizarre, unusual crime. A regular police officer might see a crime like that once in their career. We see it every day, week after week. They're called in on all the weird ones. So he said there's a lot of misinformation about what we do we wait in line and fly commercial and all that other stuff is strictly hollywood so uh there's that he says it does involve meticulous attention to detail a lot of pouring over crime scene photographs he says it's as scientific a process as we can make it with uh they. They have training in criminal psychology and all this shit.

He's tense. He said his interest, he's tense, yeah. Exactly what he is. His interest in becoming a profiler started when, in 1993, they found Muriel Delbeck. That was the one they said. He said that she'd been assaulted with everything and all that. Within 72 hours, they'd arrested Robert Mark Edwards. That was the one they said. He said that she'd been assaulted with everything and all that. Within 72 hours, they'd arrested Robert Mark Edwards.

They called McNamara and filed, and they had, who was the field coordinator in Hawaii in the profiling unit. So they said the method of killing matched the profile of a sex murder committed in Orange County, California in 86, the MED. And this guy said that that all actually means something here. The fact that there are realtors named with M.E.D. is probably not a huge. That's not a coincidence. There's something there. There's something to that. And it's everything.

The whole signature, the telephone cords, the hair mousse. It's fucking mousse. It's not like you got a different can of something. Right. You didn't grab a can of fucking Pinto's or something. No. Went to the bathroom and found the hair stuff. The moose. People have tons of cans of shit in their fucking bathroom.

He said, oh, there's the moose. Perfect. That's fucking crazy. McNamara said that was his signature. That was something he had to do to fulfill himself. These murders were not about killing. It's something that the killer does to satisfy himself sexually. He called these murders organized.

They said he's an organized serial killer. There's only two, not three, which is the whatever. But he said he's a serial killer and this is an organized serial killer. We stopped him before three. That's all. That's all there is to it. We don't know, actually. Who the fuck knows what he's been doing between these years.

As far as we know. They said they can they create can create intricate plans for their crimes and are obsessed about the details to meet a psychological need. He said, quote, We don't deal with sane or insane. Those are legal definitions. We say abnormal behavior because killing women for sex is considered abnormal by society. Fair enough. I would say he said disorganized murderers have may have mental health problems and difficulty dealing with reality.

In some cases, they find like vampirism or cannibalism. That's mainly a disorganized. So like Dahmer was organized, but had to get drunk and disorganized when he did the crime. So it's like he was a mixed bag. So they said that they studied the similarities between these two murders. And Deputy District Attorney David L. Brent in Orange County said this is a tale of two crime scenes. Let's hear about this one. Marjorie Elaine Diebel, 55, his ex-girlfriend's mother.

She has Catherine, the daughter that he went out with, and two sons, Scott and Stephen. And she's divorced, is a real estate agent. She's been doing that for about seven years. So she's doing great and very active. active she's in a civic organization for professional women she's in the church of religious science not scientology i don't think as well as other organizations um she was described as a home economic economist adding that she believed that deeble taught home economics at one time so at cal state long beach or a local community college oh that's awesome so she was a teacher yeah at some point she got divorced and i feel like that's probably when the real estate started because that's she's described as small and attractive a small attractive kind woman very nice a real estate agent real estate agent exactly big smile you know photogenic for that thing hanging in the yard

so uh on monday may 12th deeble the deceased woman here mentioned uh that she was to her boss that she was leaving for an appointment scheduled for about 5 p.m and uh the boss said though she never arrived at the appointment and she never saw her again that was that uh deeble did not contact her boss the next day the next day or the next day which she's yeah she said deeble was one of her top agents and was the most active agent in the entire office so she waits this woman waits four days to call the cops to call the cops for the most busy and active person in my office yeah she said this was really weird because during this time period, the real estate market was hot. Yeah. So, you know, now Catherine Valentine, Robert's ex-girlfriend, saw her mother for the last time on the morning of Monday, May 12th, between 7 and 730 a.m. that week and left messages on her answering machine but never spoke with her which was also common because she's so busy so they would play phone tag back and yeah Diebel uh would at times

leave an apartment key out in a drain pipe in front of the apartment and now um Catherine says that she thinks that Robert knew it was there she thinks he knew about it she thinks maybe she saw her getting it at one point she also says that uh robert uh she also told robert that you could access the apartment by going through a screen window in the back which is you know i got locked out one time i had to go over there he'd been inside on at least two occasions like we said um now when when he catherine met him his leg was in a cast but during the week of may 11th the day, he got his cast taken off. So he was no longer in his cast.

He could move around but with a limp, but he could still move pretty fast. If you want to, you can fucking make something work. You know what I mean? So she said, Valentine said she generally parked her truck in her driveway, positioning the truck so it was either before or beyond some juniper bushes so she didn't have to open the door into the bush and step into them so makes sense um she said that uh on the night of may 12th she parked her truck before the juniper bushes the following morning she had to climb into the bushes to get into her truck so yeah she said someone moved the truck uh she said

she had not given you know robert permission to use the truck the night before but who knows so she doesn't you know write her fucking mileage down every night yeah maybe you should your car could be used in all sorts of murders you don't know you're dating a scumbag you don't know man you don't know anything so thursday may, 1986, she hadn't appeared for work. Her friends, they finally called police to do a welfare check. The officers arrived, and they said the front door was, quote, slightly open. So someone just needed to go check. That's all it was.

Someone just needed to walk up to the apartment. They said no sign of forced entry, and they said they were trying to find out if anything was missing. The front screen door was closed but unlocked, and the wooden front door was open approximately four inches. So no sign of forced entry. The screen from a window next to the door had been removed and was leaning against the building. So inside the house, loud music was playing. I wish I knew what what but loud music was maybe it's judas priest i don't know it's probably yeah it's priest yeah loud music

you got another so uh loud music playing and she was lying face down on the floor between the bed and the dresser she's wearing a long nightgown that had been pushed up around her waist, no underwear. So the bottom of the nightgown had either been cut or ripped. So he just cut it off and then pushed the rest up, which is really,

that means he gets off on cutting it off because he could have just pushed it up like he did with the rest of it. The destruction of this, yeah. It's the fear. Well well they found the yeah yeah they found muriel's clothes cut too in the dumpster so he likes to cut the clothes off that makes him feel good yeah that's this is part of his sick shit that he likes this is fucking creepy man she's lying face down wearing nothing like i said um been cut or ripped her hands were at were still tied behind her back with material from the nightgown and with a torn telephone cord as well.

So he didn't even bring it. He didn't even bring it. That's the weird part, too. He didn't, like, BTK had a kit. He had a hit kit he brought with him that had certain clotheslines, certain plastic nylon cords different lengths different thicknesses like he had a whole like a fish like a tackle box he had of shit uh debbie's neck was in a noose made from a thin belt uh the end of the belt was tied to the top drawer uh handle of

the dresser so that her neck was suspended about eight inches above the floor. Oh my. He left her hanging like that. Like fucking D'Angelo Barksdale in the prison library. The drawer was open about six to eight inches. Blood had run out of her left ear and mouth and there's blood around her nose. There's two wounds on her neck.

One underneath the belt and one just below. Her left leg was bent and leaning against the bed. Her right leg was fully extended and underneath the belt and one just below. Her left leg was bent and leaning against the bed. Her right leg was fully extended and underneath the bed. Inside, oh man, inside on her thigh, they found a stain they believed to be dried semen as well. She's, her ankles bore marks that looked like ligature marks to everybody as well.

A cylindrical moose can found in the bed covering on top of the bed. The substance underneath the ridge around the top of the can was blood and gave a positive response for blood. And it was found out to be they found the cap on the ground next to Diebel. That's the one that could fit the moose can so um yeah the another substance appeared to be blood observed just inside the opening of the cap and um yeah uh on the floor so again with the moose can they found out that's what happened as we'll talk about on the floor a pillowcase a dress and a scarf and a scarf were wrapped

together with adhesive tape. That's weird. It's fucking weird, man. The dress was bloodstained. The pillowcase was also bloodstained. It was tied to resemble a hood and appeared to have been cut with shears. What the fuck? He made like an art project with it. Yeah, he's going to make like a Christmas snowflake out of it all.

He's, what's it called? He's serial killers. No, serial killers. They stage. He's staging. Like a real estate agent or a serial killer. Put this over here. They both stage.

Put the memes over here. Yeah, that's what it is. I'm going to set this up. I made a nice little project. There we go. Isn't that pretty? Put that there. That's a bunch of weird shit to tape together though yeah it's very strange uh more blood was

inside the pillowcase than was on the outside a sheet was found on the floor a strip approximately 66 inches long and 15 inches wide had been cut and torn from the left side of the sheet the irregular cutting was possibly made with the use of the shears. A telephone cord and an electrical cord were found tied together on either the floor or the bed. They didn't know. So the bedroom ransacked. Garments were all over the room. Items were knocked over. Dresser drawers were open.

Contents of the purse strewn about the floor. Telephone that appeared to have its cord ripped off the wall was just sitting there against the wall. It's a mess. The autopsy here, she had bruises in her vaginal area, especially in the front part of it.

There was also bruising and tearing just inside the opening of the vagina and a tear and hemorrhaging of the bottom of the opening of the vagina, too. Consistent with having a fucking can of mousse. Yeah. You know, God damn it. On one slide, the doctor noted an underlying submucosal hemorrhage.

And they also said the lining of the vaginal walls means it came from there is what they're talking about. Anyway, Jesus Christ. They said that the dilation. Oh, no. Also, right from the court document, Diebel's anus was dilated and bruising and small mucosal lacerations were observed just inside the anus. were observed just inside the anus. The Dr. Fukamoto opined that the dilation of the anus could have been caused by any number of objects, basically, is what he said. So he said this would have been obviously especially painful, everything that was going on here.

They thought the injuries to the vaginal and rectal areas were also inflicted before death. So that sounds familiar. There was bleeding in the tissues near the tail of her pancreas. They noted that the pancreas is an organ located deep within the body and requires a tremendous amount of localized blunt force to the area to damage the

pancreas. You never hear people with a bruised pancreas. Either your pancreas is fine or you have pancreatal cancer and you die in a month. That's the only two things that happen with a fucking pancreas. Right. Either your pancreas is fine or you have pancreatal cancer and you die in a month. That's the only two things that happen with a fucking pancreas. So they have pancreatitis, but it's not from punching it. In the stomach area, they also observed food that had been untouched by digestion and said that such a finding would indicate that she died within an hour after eating.

So it sounds like she was on her way to appointment. She stopped home probably to grab a bite to eat. Stopped home, grabbed a bite to eat, and got fucking overcome by this shit. Blood was coming out of her left ear, like we said. There was extensive hemorrhaging in the middle ears, which extended from the middle ear into the bone of the skull.

The right eardrum was torn, and the left eardrum had a break that, according to the autopsy report was incisional, not from a hit or a slap in the ear. He said it's not a tear. It's something that's caused by a sharp instrument or an instrument that has a point. He's stabbing her in the ear. That is crazy.

He said that if the eardrums are torn associated with massive bleeding in the middle ears, that could also be due to a massive increase in pressure as a result of the struggle that they had to get a breath. She had to get a breath while being strangled. He also said that the amount of pressure that would tear an eardrum and the infliction of an incisional injury to an eardrum would in each case be extremely painful. So either way, they said definitely strangled. The whites of her eyes had conjunctival hemorrhaging, which is bleeding. Just say fucking bleeding. There's a braided lacerations in the left chin area, a crescent in the bridge of the nose that was consistent with fracturing the bridge of the nose. This is fucking horrible, man. This is just goddamn horrible.

They said that blunt force trauma to injuries above the neck. A deep furrow created by the ligature around her neck. Fuck, man. This is his girlfriend's mom. That was nothing but nice to him for no reason. And so is she. They're both nice to him. They said that with strangling, it takes a long time to die, obviously.

And that's so this is especially heinous. And they said that they also observed baggies of pills on the dresser and on the floor of her bedroom. So they don't know what that was about. They entered the room and found a TV guide that was open to Monday, May 12th. So she was looking at what was on TV later. That's all. They also observed the shears on the floor, and they did not observe cigarette butts in the apartment like the one in Maui. That's the only difference.

None of the fingerprints lifted from her apartment matched him, though. That's the thing. So I don't know what the deal is is if he wore gloves this time or what and the next time he was too drunk i'm not sure what the fuck happened but blackout it's yeah uh richard brown who's a criminalist with the uh sheriff's crime lab in orange county said that uh the pubic hair found in the scene uh the reason the pubic hair eliminated him as a as a uh source of they eliminated him as a source of the pubic hair found in the crime scene. That was the thing.

But that doesn't mean that that's not him because it was an 86. So they just did that. The hairs are different. That was it. They said. Yeah. They said they were unable to compare the crime scene hair to that of seven other defendants because the hair strands submitted for those individuals contained too few hairs to make a comparison so uh the investigation there the sergeant james jessen of the los alamitos police department he was the lead investigator he interviewed first katherine

valentine the daughter and um you know she said she thinks that he bar that robert borrowed her truck for a short period of time that much that night and that's how they started talking to robert uh about it at all now uh co-workers said they were all everyone was devastated by deeble being murdered here they uh they said we were in the process oh my god they were she was sales agent of the month that month wow and they were in the process of writing a press release for it, saying a congratulator for it when they heard that she was killed. So that is fucking brutal. She was really nice to her customers.

Somebody had moved into a house, and they had a yard, and she said, let's have a barbecue, but the people didn't have a barbecue, so she brought them a barbecue and set it up and cooked for them and shit. She's known as this amazingly nice person. Very strange strange got me a fucking key that's it that's there you go fucker um 55 years old she is and in the paper it says and i quote los alamitos police say they are investigating the questionable death of an elderly woman she's 55 she's not elderly at all there's nothing questionable about this this is a murder they didn't want to release that part to the public yet so they would know but fucking 55 she's she's the agent of the month like she's

active as shit what are you talking about elderly crushing it my god um now, one of the first people who they actually were investigating was a guy named Paul Roy. He was her ex-boyfriend, Paul Roy. Yeah. He said on May 12th or 13th, Roy called her at her home at 820. And then one or two days later, he went to the apartment and knocked on the door. When no one answered, he put a greeting card for her between the screen door and the closed wooden door, he said. He said the door was closed when they found that it was fucking open. So it must have been the 12th and it must have been before this happened. He didn't recall a window screen leaning up against the wall of the house at that point, he said. So, yeah, the only thing, the only possible way, and i don't think this is what happened i'm just saying crazy shit that that our guy here robert didn't do this as if this guy did it and then robert read the report and went a moose can good idea and then put that in his pocket for later which is highly unlikely that they both have the same sick weird thing that they need so um

yeah she said that she was always very careful locked the doors to her apartment another guy leonard hirsch dated deeble as well on a regular basis well this elderly lady's really living a life 55 she's elderly that's amazing that is fucking funny so like every like so you could say like what year was this though 80 80 so this was 93 no this is 86 86 she was found so still elderly yeah i would i would call them that they were in their 50s i mean if you're seven they're elderly but if you're writing for a newspaper probably not 30s 55 is not elderly yeah alden olsen testified later that he dated marjorie as well um here during the eight weeks before her death so that's the most current boyfriend he saw her do laundry including her sheets three or four times said that uh she always locked her

doors everything like that uh leonard hirsch said the same thing. Her sheets were fresh and clean, not dirty and all that shit. She washed her sheets a lot. The Avon lady, Vivian Camp, went to Diebel's home on Thursday, May 15th between 11 a.m. and 11.15. She said the door was open

about a foot. She could see inside. Didn't notice a screen off the window that was facing the walkway, but wasn't really looking for it either. So who knows? So Robert Edwards here, they meet with Robert in 86 and the the investigator observed that he walked with a noticeable limp and a tear appeared to have difficulty standing on his right leg for a long period of time. So they said that they spoke about elimination prints, and they said they were dissatisfied. They didn't match prints, but in the end,

the lab people said they were dissatisfied with the quality of the prints that the cops took from the suspects. So they said, we couldn't match it anyway because you fucked up on the print. So that's how that happened. Quality of the evidence is all shit. Yes, and they also found out that, yes, Judas Priest did perform at the Los Angeles Sports Arena on May 12th between 8 and 11 p.m.

So that's a fact. So back to Hawaii there. He's got a girlfriend being held. Naomi Lindemann, the one who got attacked with a wine bottle right is being held as a potential witness because they want her to for the california case so they're literally holding her as a witness which is fucking crazy she said that she always had knowledge of edward's sexual perversions uh he liked to choke her a lot and stuff like that against her will like you know during sex so um his hawaiian trial quickly here a uh lynn pen penzik who's a retired school teacher

said she began to correspond with robert when he was incarcerated there she said after several months he asked her to visit and they became friends. Once while he's going to be on trial later on, he refused to visit with her. Yeah, he refused to visit. And he wrote to her, quote, remember the trial when it was the most brutal, horrible testimony? You came up that weekend and I refused your visit. Do you know why I did that? I did it because I was utterly appalled by what they show had shown in court and that i was responsible for it and i hated myself and i felt like you certainly must hate me i was ashamed and did not want to face you so um yeah uh he is he's got

blood fucking footprints handprints dna pubic hair unless he left a business card on her fucking coffee table he couldn't have it's too made it's too much he couldn't have made it more obvious so he's convicted of everything and uh the judge by the way says this is judge maui circuit judge boyd mossman says that he quote doesn't deserve to be called a human being said that he tortured painfully uh painful unjustified death of this woman and called him a quote raving maniacal animal you sir may fuck off five consecutive life terms for him but you can do that five But he could still get out on parole the way it works. So you never know. They also ordered him to pay $29,600 in restitution to the family and fined him $275,000, quote,

just in case you live long enough to make that much money, the judge said. Just for funsies. Just for funsies. If you get out, you will be penniless on the street, by the way. You're never going to have a good life, I'm deciding, which is he doesn't deserve it. So the California trial, he's charged with special allegations that occurred that a burglary, that this occurred during a burglary and it involved torture. That means the death penalty is on the table here.

Is that right? And the office of the Orange County Prosecutor's Office said they are going for the death penalty, quote, because he killed two people because he brutally tortured two victims. Fair enough. So, yeah, they bring him in here. They first have to talk about whether they can discuss the Hawaiian conviction or not in detail. They can say he's convicted, but can they say moose can moose can you know what i mean so that's what they're wondering the prosecutor basically he can present the evidence but he can't present it as uh as fucking fact basically he says that the jurors cannot be told

of edward's conviction in the hawaiian. He can't say he was convicted of it. The prosecutor essentially must present evidence as if he were trying both murder cases at once. So you can't say he's convicted for it, but you can say, here's the photos from that scene. Here's the photo from this scene. Here's wrist wrist. Here's bag of goodies, bag of goodies, moose can, moose can fucking make your whatever. But wouldn't you have to say he did that you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah but he's saying like he's treating it like he's still

awaiting trial on that one too basically that's what they're doing so that's how kind of the mindset to to look at it like so uh they called it a tale of two crime scenes like i said the the in the opening the prosecutor explained they were beaten mutilated strangled both had been sexually assaulted with cans of mousse uh you know which the prosecution also said represented a single that's a signature work which is totally true in the opening statements here uh yeah they said that edwards has later on his defense attorney will say edwards has a dark side which is only released when he is under the extreme domination of alcohol. So defense attorneys contended the murder scenes were radically different, radically, including the manner in which they were strangled.

Yeah. One's in Long Beach, one's in Hawaii. That's the difference. Yeah. Well, strangling methods actually do progress with people btk did it dominant all these guys did it because manual strangulation is really fucking hard yeah like btk said his hands were hurt he was like oh my god he couldn't like move his hands afterwards like it's hard so if you manually strangle somebody once or you use something not that

strong you're gonna go hey next time i'll use a belt or whatever the fuck your sick shit is. So anyway, they said there was also no physical evidence in the L.A. case, such as fingerprints linking him to the crime. And the they said that Diebel was strangled with a belt rigged to a dresser while Delbeck was strangled by hand. That's what they said. So he did the opposite. He strangled with the belt first and then strangled by hand later,

which would make sense if you're shit faced and on Coke, you just grab someone and squeeze them. So, uh, Naomi Lindeman testified that he once tried to rape her with a wine bottle and occasionally tried to choke her during sex. Um, there was objections and all that shit over it.

Catherine Valentine, obviously the daughter testified, uh, regarding the friendship with her mother that she lost and she said she felt guilt for bringing this guy even into the family. And, you know,

they also had her testify about missing jewelry and stuff like that. The Diebel's daughter and sister took the stand. Her older sister said, I spent a lot of time in pain. There's a helpless feeling

of not being able to do anything and of missing her terribly i miss her visits her letters her get-togethers we're a close family so um yeah and now uh the daughter who dated him said i'm afraid to be alone i wake up in the middle of the night crying because i want my mother i'm afraid i'm looking over my shoulder all the time. That's fucking horrible, man. That is horrible. She said since her death, all four of the grandchildren have been born, four grandchildren that she never saw, she said.

So that's horrible here. Now the prosecution ticks off all the ways that there isn't differences, basically. Del Beck, by the way, had bite marks on her body as well oh god whereas diebel doesn't have bite marks which on the later one he might be into biting now it's been fucking seven years maybe he got into biting in that time there's a defense pathologist who says that uh he testified and says that according to him uh there he talks about blood hemorrhaging out of the ears. He said it's a common finding after ligature strangulation because the blood vessels in the ears are engorged

and the eardrums are perforated and bleed. So he said that's what he thinks it is. And he also talks about her being strained. They talk about how much time there would be between strangles. They said they could lose consciousness within 15 to 30 seconds, and it takes about four minutes of lack of oxygen for the heart and respiratory center to die. So that's what he was saying. They also said that a possible fracture was more likely from a blow rather than a fall in the neck area, and the blow to the head of sufficient force to break the nose and cause immediate unconsciousness because remember she had a big crease in her

fucking bridge of her nose so um yeah it's it's it's fucking this doctor for the defense had the balls to say that a laceration and a hemorrhage can be microscopic in size he described the injuries to deebles vagina and rectum is quote extremely minor oh wow let's stick something up your ass and see how fucking minor that is hold on a second wait let me style my hair first now come here a minute you fucking asshole let me jam this up your ass and you tell me how minor it is minor wow um that is fucking wild um he also explained that foreign in in no it's he he even had the balls to say because she was menopausal that would mean that the uh the lining of the vaginal wall was thinner than it should be at the time you know the normal so any kind of manipulation by even a finger or a penis, just blood's going to shoot out of there.

So if you have sex with a menopausal woman, she'll just be a geyser when you're done. You just can't. What are you talking about? Fuck me, man. They also brought in a drug guy, a doctor to talk about his drug addictions and he said genetics are the worst for worst indicator or the best indicator of your you know future alcoholism yeah proclivities and he said child abuse is the second most so those are the prevalent risk factors for that they said that uh hypothetical risk factors of genetic background, horrible childhood abuse, lack of supervision, and an environment which drugs were available.

This doctor said, quote, I frankly don't see how he escaped being an addict. This fellow didn't have a chance. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't have to fucking kill anybody, though. So, wow. So. Wow. The prosecution closing here. Also, they said if you use cocaine, an individual uses alcohol with cocaine is, quote, far, far, far more likely to go into an alcoholic blackout.

So they said that's that's they said if he was shooting cocaine, that's what the doctor says. Who the fuck knows? what the doctor says who the fuck knows so the prosecutor during his lengthy closing argument he said quote he makes a mockery of our justice system by saying i don't remember that's true oh man so the verdict comes in here um and they find uh him guilty obviously of killing her um the moose can is too much it's just too much you can't get past that there's nobody else doing that bud you're you're you're the original real estate med moose can sorry chief you're out that's too much one two three strike fucking three and the guy that did one did the other and your hands in blood we we know you did one yeah that's what I mean. We know about that shit for sure. For sure, sure.

And then the other one is your girlfriend's mom. It was you. Probably you, chief. And you stole the car that night too, dickhead. So he brought up 30 character witnesses on behalf of him. Oh, boy. One of his, oh, his lawyer outside the court said, quote, he's not a sociopath. He has things.

No, he's a psychopath. There's a difference. He has things going for him in life he's not the type of person who needs to be executed he's a good father to his son he wants to live for his son who is the light of his life the last thing he knows is that he used heavy drugs and alcohol and then stayed home that was the last thing he remembers so that's that's it they also had people up saying he has his devotion to his now 11 year old son is huge and we need to we can't kill him he needs a drug and alcohol impairment if if that's what you do

when you get drunk and high i don't want you on the street yeah where you can get drunk and high even if that was something that was a pass and we could just be like all right yeah you're right uh forgive you no shit he says the defense attorney shouldn't the death penalty be reserved for someone with no redeeming qualities if rod rob edwards dies of execution a little of us will perish with him is that right oh uh there's no need to execute rob edwards the only valid argument to execute him is vengeance he says he also says if you send him to prison, he'll be a model prisoner. Model prisoner. He says that he's he helps his and his son actually said he helps him with problems and he talks to his dad all the time and gives him, you know, fucking advice. Edwards is a very special person in a lot of ways. He has touched a lot of people.

Don't put it like that. Don't put a rapist. Don't say a rapist has touched a lot of people, please. Thank you. Should we look more? Jesus. We were hopeful that the jury would see that. We hope they put more weight on the factors of mitigation than the other factors.

So let's see what happens here. Oh, my God. So they said one doctor said that he has he's a remarkable parent because of his unflagging devotion. That man put me to work for his son and I barely got a break. So he's just all about it. The prosecution here, they bring up the family to tell how horrible everything is and how they're afraid to be alone at night they have dr park deets involved in this shit i love him talking oh he's amazing talking about blackouts and things like that um deets he kind of just muddies it up a little bit he says it doesn't tell us about anything about his mental state at the time of the homicides except he was drunk looking at what happened in each homicide it shows that if if intoxicated he wasn't too intoxicated to engage in a very

orderly sequence of complicated behaviors these include things done to gain access to each victim to do things to the victims and their property and leave the scene the blackout does not affect his mental state while perpetuating the acts um yeah so uh anyway he talks about uh he agreed with the prosecutor saying the blackout simply means that short-term memory has not been recorded into long-term memory he said as he is committing homicides he's behaving intentionally and voluntarily he knows where he is he knows what he's doing he knows who he's with he knows why he's engaging in the actions, what he wants to do. He knows all of it.

It's just you don't remember it afterwards. Yeah. So that doesn't mean that you didn't know it while it was happening is what he's saying. It's not a trance where your eyes are rolled into the back of your head and you're like sleepwalking around murdering people. That's not what it is. So, yeah. He said at the moment he knows what he's doing is wrong and he's trying to hide it from the outside world is what he says. Yeah.

So obviously they said he tells you he describes everything about the two murders, the prosecutor. And he says, quote, it tells you about his character and it's not good. He says this is a monster. The prosecutor does quote. This is a monster. It's hard to think of anyone who deserves the death penalty more than he does. It's hard for me to understand. And then Edwards said when pleading for his life here, he said, it's hard for me to understand that I could do something so horrible. hearing had a mistrial really nine to three deadlocked majority favoring execution so uh that was that so they get a new sentencing hearing you sir may fuck off death penalty this time so he gets a death penalty um yeah he's uh pretty upset about that they uh no i mean he gets to jail and he says that he didn't remember doing any of the things that he said that they said he did. But if he did, he should be punished accordingly.

And he he said that he has no recollection, but he felt horrible. And he's been fasting and meditating and praying on the dates of the murders and praying for the families. Once he gets into prison, he's sober. He's a nice guy again, too. It's fucking crazy. Dominic Barra got Baga Baga Razi. OK, he's sober he's a nice guy again too it's fucking crazy dominic barraga uh bagara bagara z okay he's her backer rotsy he said says that he met them while they were both in the orange county jail in august 1994 this guy uh agreed with he said that he barraga uh bagara z he was a bad

guy who had given up and he had a drug problem and all that. But the two of them, him and Robert, were day room partners in administrative segregation. And he said that knowing Robert made Bagherazi a better person and changed his outlook on life. He had been a child actor, he said, and he wanted to return to that profession but didn't think he could. He said that Robert told him he could do any damn thing he set his mind to. And while he could be a convict and stay in prison for the rest of his life, it would be more of a challenge to try to achieve my goals. So he got out of jail and he's actually got a bunch of shit here. His mother said that this guy changed her son's life. He got a job on shit here uh his mother said that that this guy's changed his or her son's

life he got a job on ali mcbeal he was an he just had like a bit role there he did a television pilot with sam elliott he got a commercial i found his imdb he's in like 21 shitty movies from 2013 to 2021 this guy met jonathan brandis yeah yeah they're all like a lot of smaller roles you know but like he's been working steadily it's fucking crazy so yeah september of 1996 he was written up for heroin use in orange county jail what robert was had a little relapse in jail when was that uh 96 right before he was sentenced to death yeah uh basically um so uh 1997 the sheriff's deputy matthew johnson testified that he worked at jail while robert was there he wrote robert up once for possession of contraband which consisted of extra clothing and pictures on the wall he said otherwise he observed jail rules and was respectful and everything else like that.

Another, Robert Morris, a sergeant at the Correctional Center in Maui, said that he was a model inmate when he was there. Never gave anybody any problems, had no write-ups. Wish I had a million like him. Fascinating. So, Robert did say at times he feared for his life in jail. I guess there were racial tensions in 1997. So he was caught trying to make a shank in 1997 because there was some, I guess, rioting going on and some people.

Yeah. Now, let me ask you this question, Jimmy. How hard do you think it is to find reliable roofers who are honest? Oh, my God. It is really hard. This is how hard it is to find reliable roofers who are honest? Oh, my God. It is really hard. This is how hard it is. Okay. Remember the guy who hired him as a roofer for Dotto or whatever and said what a great guy he was?

This is how good of an employee he was. He said that, quote, despite Robert's two murder convictions, he would hire him again in a second if he had the opportunity. I'm not a fucking 60-year-old real estate agent. He's not going to stick a can of moose in me. You ever seen a roofing project? Very few cans of moose up there. Very few. Very few.

It'll melt out of your head if it's even in your hair. You can't have it on there. Holy shit. Roofers don't own moose usually, very few very few it'll melt out of your head if it's even in your hair you can't have it on there holy shit roofers don't own moose usually i don't think so now he appeals the whole deal here uh he appeals the everything uh the california one mainly he says that talking about the other case was too prejudicial so there's 143 page ruling on this i don't i'm not going to read that obviously i'm going to give you about fucking three sentences out of it but they said that uh that the trial court was aware of the evidence about the time about the crime in hawaii there was numerous similarities so it should be fine once again they say the uh most notably hair mousse cans of similar cans of similar diameter and length were present in both crime scenes. And there was evidence both victims had been sexually penetrated by the mousse cans.

So a California judge ruling noted that the Supreme Court ruling noted that the judge had excluded evidence that the two women shared the same three initials and were both real estate agents. Didn't tell him that. Those are little things that people would have went, okay, the moose, whatever, but then all three of them together, sorry, you're fucked, mister. Like we said, strike one, strike two, strike three. Also, Del Beck did not engage in that occupation while she was visiting Hawaii, and there was no evidence that he knew about her job in Alaska. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

He was charged there. What do we see here? Oh, in a separate 10-page ruling, they wrote that one judge wrote that she would reverse one of the special circumstances involving torture. They said that it was prejudicial when a pathologist called to testify during the trial relayed to the jury observations of the non-testifying autopsy pathologist because he said our findings are this and this. And they said, well, they didn't bring that person in to say it.

So I'd reverse the special circumstance on it and throw out the death penalty. So two of them noted how ample ample evidence aside from the pathologist testimony supported the murder charge and other special circumstance allegation against edwards you sir may keep fucking off and stay there forever because he's still there so there you go now is that what it is i think he's still got death i did they i don't think they changed it so i think he's still got death they just haven't think they changed it. So I think he's still got death. They just haven't executed anyone in California forever. So he's still there. He's on death row.

Boy, oh boy. And well-deserved. He's a fucking asshole. That's an awful man. He's a scary person. And his dad did that to him. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

That's the thing. We get that you weren't born like that and your dad did this to you. But at this point, now it's our problem. So you got to fuck off and we don't care anymore. We cared until you hurt somebody. And now it's like, well, now we're out now. You stuck a can of moussin of strangers. So sorry.

Twice. No, not playing that shit anymore. No. And who knows, too. I thought about this. If he lived in Hawaii, the Hawaiian murder, because they they were like how do we even know he knew her if she walked to the beach the same route every morning in her bathing suit and all that they lived in the same neighborhood who's to say he didn't run into her walking around or he didn't go for a walk in the morning yeah that's what i mean he who's to say he didn't go

for a walk in the morning and oh hey how you doing and get to know her a little bit and you know even a five-minute conversation you'd find out she's here from alaska right what do you do that's a that comes up right away right well i'm a real estate agent up in alaska taking it easy here for a bit it's it's ridiculous so either way he's in there and uh luckily and i don't think he's going anywhere so good for him that's a horrible fucking murder that That was. Aloha, sir. Oof. Mahalo, Mr. Fucking Edwards. So that's gross.

If you are completely grossed out by that, give us five stars. Why don't you go review the show on an app and say they're the best grossers, grossest people on Earth. I don't know. Just whatever you say, it helps us out. So thank you. Whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. That helps a lot. So thanks for doing that, everybody.

Also, social media. You can follow us at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at Small Town Murder on Instagram. Definitely head over to shut up and give me murder dot com right now. Immediately. I mean, if you're listening to this, you can get the virtual live show unless you're listening the minute it comes out. The virtual live show's coming. You buy your tickets right now, Thursday night, February 10th, available for 72 hours afterwards to purchase or watch or do whatever with. Don't feel bad if you miss it.

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One or the other. It's the same ticket. So there it is. Same deal. And we can't wait to see everybody out there and doing that. Patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all of the amazing extra bonus material. And by the way, our bonuses aren't like 10 minutes long. They're like at least an hour, an hour, 15.

They're good. They're a good length. You'll get extra. You'll get almost three hours worth of extra shit in a week. Absolutely. And it's funny shit this week. No exception. This week we have for crime and sports.

And by the way, even though you're listening to small town murder and you'd sign up for that, you'll get access to all the crime and sports ones, too. So you'll get access to everything. And most of them are about, you know, we're not going to talk about somebody's basketball season. We don't have time for that. So we're going to talk about crazy shit. This week we talked about an imposter case where a guy graduated. He's a college football player. Mediocre. Grad mediocre graduated he was done and then when he was 30 he said i'm better much better physically now i'm bigger

i'm stronger i bet i could dominate teenagers so he changed his identity and went to a major huge college program like a huge program and fucking enrolled and they didn't even check on it it's crazy listen to see how he did listen to see what happened and uh then for small town murder this was one of our favorites because it was just so goddamn funny we talked about the beginnings of the town of deadwood south dakota which is a world famous lawless it's where wild bill hickok got shot the aces and eights h HBO did a whole show about it. Yeah, the dead man's hand. That came from this goddamn place.

And it's literally a lawless gold prospecting camp in the Old West. It's fucking insane. And we're going to talk about all the crazy shit that goes on in the streets there, right out of the old newspapers from 1876, 7, 8. So it's going to be a lot of fun. And you can hear about your favorite Deadwood characters, what they did in real life. I threw,

I tried to put a little of everybody in there too, to sprinkle it through it. And then we talked about all the other stuff. So much fun. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you're going to get a shout out, which we're going to do in just a moment here. Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly while trying his best to

pronounce it properly. So there is that. And if you also just want to get your name terribly while trying his best to pronounce it properly. So there is that. And if you also just want to get your name heard, if you recognize it, good luck. You can do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com as well. I think it's time, Jimmy. I need to be showered with affection. Hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever, ever, ever

assault us with hairstyling products. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett, Jeanette Bell, Gary Friedman lost his mom. I saw that. Sorry, Gary. Sorry about that, man. That sucks. This world fucking sucks. Absolutely.

Jenny Craig wants us to tell Deanna Grimes happy birthday. So happy birthday. Happy birthday. Matthew Webster also is a chicken. Thank you guys so much for what you do for us. Thank you. It's truly remarkable. Thank you so much.

You're doing this. Thank you. Other producers this week are Corporal Carl Kirschner, James Marder, Shelby Kluver. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Rizan Rabadi. Tarakins tara hopkins peyton meadows kristin blosser happy birthday it's a laika deweyer i don't know what that is if that's really a person's name okay well maybe uh samantha no body no crime quigleyigley, Robert Shabley, attack macaque. Oh, boy. Happy Hour in Marrero, Louisiana.

David Mister, happy birthday. Carly Gervais, Travis Roberts, happy birthday. Frank, the South African bird washer is in again. Bethany Ray, Steve Schnell, Janice Hill, Holly Tyler, Jess Campanello, Coco the Magnificent on Instagram. Tony Simpson. It's her dog, I think. Oh, even better. Tony Simpson in Scotland.

Povilus Basivius, I think. Povilus. No. Those are very different, Jimmy. Is it Povilus? I don't fucking know. Well, let them decide. Leslie Blaze, Eric Brown, Angel Dur no, Angel, Durani, Julian, Julian.

Yeah. Grado, Grado, Joshua, Christia. Christia. I love when you ask me. I'm five feet away. I can't help you. Cody Ann Nelson, Rebel 24-7, Kenya, what is this, Kenya Fullwood, I guess. Jenny Talcott Jenny Talcott.

Talcott. Sophie Avanda. Dave with no last name. Tony Powell. Raphael Leonardo. How do you get two Ninja Turtle names? That's awesome. That's badass. Raphael Donatello Leonardo is his full name.

Michelangelo. LeBron Burroughs. Brian, you get two middle names, you can wrap that up. Brian Christie. Nick Brunette. Helena. Flabbergaster with no last name. Flabbergast, not Flabbygaster. What?

Tab with no last name. Audrey Kennedy. Nikita Richardson. Skylar Goldsby. Mike McCafferty. Jennifer Peterson. Brad Montgomery. Kendra Mullen.

Amelia with no last name. Seth Kelly. Dorian Brown, Dylan Bertram, Claudia Herbst, Paul Musalami, Jay Newton, Sarah Jones, Melissa Lang, David Johnson, Mariah Ann, Francis Keefe, kick-ass last name, Love it. Jeff Beckman. Miguel Moreno. Paige Salter. Damian Ivory. Amber with no last name. Andrew Cheadle. Austin Burke. Bella Hatmaker.

Hatmaker. Sarah Cameron. E to the G. Tanya Olson. Low Glass. Jessica Murphy. Shane Williams. Carrie Guso.

Wynne Moore. Sylvie Danko. Suzanne Wilson. Ruth DeFries. DeFreeze, Lindsay Garnham, Stephen Smith, the Junk Food God, Anthony Mays, Casey Lloyd, Darius Statham, Jin Kay, Amy Jean Jones, Katrina Shields, Roberto Montalvo- Palerm, Mariah Whitman. I'm never going to get them. As you just ran out of gas and needed a refuel. It's just beaten my soul too much. It's exhausting.

It's hurt my soul too much. Ashley Eddy, Tanya Richards, Luke Walker, Vince Alvino, Lexi Heber, Christopher Ensley, Tim Etter, Brad Loxley, Tiffany Becker, Frank Arellano, Mark Barnett, Ben Zahn, Crystal Rose, Bell Buttons, that scrappy, I think. Lynette Donahue, Tori Madu, Tried Freehole, what? Triet, Shauna Williams, Adam Apple. That's tried, right? It's got to be tried. I take it, sure. All right.

Williams, Adam Apple. That's tried, right? It's got to be tried. I take it, sure. All right. Corey Citrus. Matt Jenner. Oh, Chickers.

Siskeys. What? He just, he clenched his teeth and just started making noises. Mallory Aguirre. Michelle Wilson. Eileen Francis. Maxine Pierce. Emily Chack.

Chris Hamilton. Renee Rabon. The Cheshire, Stephanie Ernst, Finn Hansen, Finn Hansen, Kaylee Stafford, Hesh Daddy, boy oh boy, Trevor Shand, Nicole Lockwood, Ali Alpress,

Kenzie L. Savannah with no last name, Mary Randazzo, Chase Hunsaker, James Sinet, Eric Krizant. Krizant. Paul Barani. Matt with no last name. Josh Williams.

Taylor Clark. Chris Thompson. Maria. Maria. Palcon. Palcon. Ellen Ame. Meredith Bryden.

Adam Garrity. I think so. Michelle Arvin. Amy Bosley. Mary Zaja. Zaha. Sharon Doran, Sarah with no last name, David Goodall, Jessica Gaines, Trish Crook, Cook, Cook, David Brook. That's what it is. Dave Brook.

I said that. Joe Fleming, Marshall Barber, Matthew Cannon, Sarah Sharp, Kate Lee, Danielle Daniela, Sarah Sharp, Kate Lee, Danielle Daniela, Malka Mikhanovsky, Olympia Stanton, Emma Norman, Jen Nicholson, Courtney Edwards, Alaska's Top Shelf Entertainment, James, Alyssa Connor, Sammy Stan, Madison Kay, Corey Parks, Lucio Maffei, Anthony with no last name, Jessica Harwood, Derek Fleener, Jan Vodrin, Jamie Sigler, Connie Cuny, I think, Eric Pelk, Tyson Curvello, and all of our patrons. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much. You're amazing.

Honestly. You are incredible, and we cannot thank you enough for everything that you do for us. And hope to see you at the, well, you see us at the virtual live show later on. It's going to be a party, everybody. And everybody has asked. Yes, most devices, if you have a newer phone and a TV made in the last 10 years, you can usually throw it to your TV. Everybody's been asking that. This is amazing.

It's fun shit. It's crazy stuff that you can do. You can put us on TV even though Netflix won't. Yes, even though none of these other people want us at all for tv things they're like well we like uh the name of your show not really you guys with your with your ill humor great can we use somebody else in some other way can we use uh like sort of just your name but a different show with more attractive people is what we're looking for. Really?

So his wife will do that. Maybe that, maybe Kristen Bell will sign up for this shit. So that said, Jimmy, well, you know what? We just said this.

If you want to find us, follow us on social media, look up the show, small town murder and go to shut up and give me murder.com. We're all of our infos on there. Find us on there. And keep coming back week after week after week because until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.