Small Town Murder - #411 - Her Emo Eyes Have Powers - Terra Linda, California

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

This week, in Terra Linda, California, a young lady has a very strange home life, with a seemingly mentally ill mother, who the young woman calls "Hitler". She delves into a world where she calls herself a High Priestess, and a witch, while consuming massive amounts of drugs, and convincing one young man that her eyes have powers. The brutality this all leads to can be seen coming, but it doesn't make it any less mind boggling. And the outcome may be the craziest thing of all!!Along the way, we find out that James Hetfield probably avoids the locals, that someone's eyes shouldn't be the thing that has power over you, and that you shouldn't need 4 different murder weapons!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Terralinda, California, an obsessive pair of lovers, including a possible witch, take some mild grievances and turn them

into a reason for drugs, lies, and some twisted, horrifying murder. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. And another, this is just, we say it every week and are we ever wrong? We say, oh, this is a crazy episode and then it comes and you're like, somehow it's crazier than the last one. I don't know. It's Looney Tunes, folks. It is Looney Tunes time, and today is definitely no different. Today is very terrifying, so we'll get to all of that. First off, just want to say thank you for everything that you do for us,

especially the people that buy tickets to live shows. Magnificent people. Oh, you people are wonderful. We had a great time, by the way, in Salt Lake City and Denver. We forgot to mention that last time. All of you turkeys out there are the best. Thank you very much, and gobble, gobble, indeed. So, yes, it's been a good time.

You definitely want to head over to shutupandgivememurder.com, because August 12th is Chicago. We will be there live. Yes, it's happening, so get there. There's still some tickets available. It is going to be our biggest show ever, and we're doing a special live show just for you in Chicago. So get on out there, everybody, and come to Chicago.

And also we have Dallas, Charlotte, Atlanta. Still have tickets and a couple left in Philly. So get your tickets for the rest of the year. Everything else is sold out. So hurry up and get those, definitely. You also definitely want Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. It's a cup of coffee people a cup of coffee you can get a cup of coffee or you

can get a whole big back catalog with like 200 bonus episodes and new ones every other week this week is no different what we have for you is for crime and sports which of course you'll have access to we are going to talk about theme park disasters part two last time we kind of did from like the 1920s to the 80s and now it's the 80s on so these these uh roller coasters are getting high powered people are flying far off of them so check that out right there up the ante and then for small town murder we're going to talk about the stanford prison experiment which we have been requested a lot to do and this is when at stanford they did an experiment obviously where they took a bunch of people that were volunteers made half of them prisoners half of them guards and said let's see what happens how quickly will people turn into

lunatics and not very long it takes honestly so we'll talk all about that patreon.com slash crime and sports and you'll get a shout out at the end of the show of course where jimmy will mispronounce your name while just trying his hardest to get it correct so so hard so that said and also your stupid opinion still coming coming in a couple weeks we are we are doing this it's all set up finally and all the business stuff is done so we're allowed to do it and allowed to put it out and we're very very excited for it we can't wait to give it to you so check that out quick disclaimer this is a comedy show yeah we're comedians but this is a show about terrible murder also at the same time so there's a balance there that goes with that and that balance is we will definitely make jokes tons of jokes the jokes about everything but what we don't do we go out of our way not to do is we don't make jokes about the victim right or the victim's

family why is that james that's because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags you know go out of our way not to do is we don't make jokes about the victim or the victim's family. Why is that, James? That's because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. You know, that works. Yeah, that's a nice thing. There's a way to do it tastefully and not make it weird murder porn. But at the same time, you know, there's jokes to be made. It's going to happen.

So that said. It's funny. I want to talk about it. That's what I mean. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe we're not the show for you. Maybe they're, I ever go together, maybe we're not the show for you. Maybe they're, I don't know. Maybe we're not. Or maybe you're just, you're misunderstanding the whole thing.

I'm not positive. Maybe you don't get it. Maybe you don't get it. Either way, check it out or don't. It's up to you. But don't complain about it later because we warned you that there are jokes. So don't say, oh my God, they were making jokes about stuff. So don't do that.

We don't need that right there. You're just as responsible as we are. You're involved in this. We're all in this together, everybody. So that said, I think it's time, if you are in this with us, to sit back. Let's clear the lungs, everybody. What do you say here? Arms to the sky and let's all shout.

Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We're going's do this, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We're going out west this week here. Again, we've been in Oregon and Washington, but then North Carolina last week. But here we are going to be in California, up in Northern California here,

Terra Linda, California, which is... Terra Linda. Terra Linda is actually a smaller town inside of another not very big city called San Rafael. So San Rafael, Terra Linda is inside of it, but it's its own kind of a thing. So that's how that works. This is inside. Rafael, it is. And so she's all up in there.

Terra Linda, meaning the opposite. Yeah. Beautiful land is what that. Oh, yeah. And this is in the North Bay region. Terra Linda meaning beautiful land is what that means. Oh, yeah. I didn't see that. And this is in the North Bay region. So this is above San Francisco, about a half hour outside San Francisco. It's in Marin County out there, where if you look north from San Francisco, you see trees.

And you're like, wow, that looks pretty good. You know? Doesn't look bad. About an hour 20 to San Jose. And about an hour 10 to, how the hell did we say this? Uh, milk, milk,

milk, milk, that's right. Milk, which was episode three 52, the body on the Hill. That was a good one too. So area code here,

four one five. The motto is the city with a mission. You bet. Well, every day, all have missions in California. Every city has a mission. Is it,

is it a mission of like religious? Like an old Spanish, you know. That's not what they mean, but if you say, what's your mission, and they don't have an answer, they're like, we have missions, you know. It's not a lie, I think. There's one over there. There's one over there. Yeah, they're all over the place. You can light a candle for someone.

It's totally cool. And get some amazing tortillas right out front. They're going to be there. Someone will have a cart, I guarantee you, because white people go there to light candles. So here's the history. Terra Linda is located on what used to be the property of Manuel T. Fritas. It was a Portuguese person who owned parts of the Rancho San Pedro and the Santa Margarita and the Las Gallinas Mexican land grant. He owned a bunch of that. Yeah.

As we all do. That's where we all got our land, obviously. Margaritas and Fritos. Margaritas and Fritos and Mexican land grants. Buy a tortilla out in front of the mission. The ranch was originally it's a real uh sitcom fucking jingle right there it's like a radio commercial comes on at the end you know that's after you after they tell you the prices of tortillas this week and that comes on 1955 about 900 homes were built by joseph eichler and this is a very

distinctive architectural style or if you drive around this area you can tell which house is an eichler oh it's one of those and so there's a bunch of them there's a lot 900 of them and one of our real estate report houses is an eichler had to find really one of those so yeah it's it's a kind of that gives it like that historic kind of old california look are they like john f longs and phoenix those shitty ones or no no no they're not like they're not like those where they were like this guy these have so bad these have like a cool design to them you can tell they stand out unlike those ones where they were like we're selling all of peoria now and it was just open up and it was just these neighborhoods where they had three different house models to

choose from i've seen youtube videos where they still have those ads from the 50s to move to Phoenix with these neighborhoods. Wow, the John F. Longhomes? I don't remember which ones because it was a few different builders, and I know one had Red Skelton in it. Really? Yeah, it was in one of the ads. That might be Sun City for Del Webb. I think it was, yeah, this was an ad for Glendale. This ad was for.

Yeah, it was building shittings. Or Maryvale. It was in Maryvale. Oh, gross. So all these houses that are terrifying now that bullets are always flying around. At one point, they were brand new and Red Skelton was stumbling around making jokes about how nice they were. At one point, they were brand new. They had to be.

Golly. So they have the Guide Dog for the Blind organization, which has been here since before there was even a town here. They've been here forever. It's located out on kind of the edge of town of Terralinda. And the dogs and the trainers are walking around Terra Linda and San Rafael all the time. So you constantly see dogs in training walking around, which any, that's pretty cool. You can look out the window and see people walking like nice dogs out there.

That's cool, I guess. But are these dogs, yeah, are these like trial dogs or are we finding out if they're good at this or are these just dogs that are already good at this? I guess it's the guide dog for the blind thing. So they bring they bring dogs in i guess based on their characteristics and they train them up i think they're choking them a little bit all day a little bit yeah just a little choke collar the uh the mall at north gate is the only enclosed mall in marin county okay only one they said sears is still there somehow i don't know how They're hanging on by a thread there. So they're the only original tenant still left in this place.

Original? Original from when it opened in the 60s, I mean. And then since 2008, they did a huge renovation of malls, which seems like throwing good money after bad at that point. I think malls are, we've about had it with malls here. Throwing good money out the window. Yeah, that's what I mean. So people from here and live here,

Spaceman Bill Lee, who pitched for the Red Sox in the 70s, who was a very good pitcher, he's actually from here. And then James Hetfield lives here, the singer from Metallica. He lives in Marin County or in this town? He lives in Terra Linda, actually. No kidding. Yeah, he moved there in like 2010. He lived close by and then bought a big house here

in 2010 so how about that and the apparently and this is i don't know this is how the legend goes we never know it might be apocryphal we have no idea but our fun fact here the term 420 is in everybody's weed stuff um i guess they say it originated in san Rafael when a group of students of San Rafael High School in 1975 used 420 as their code for smoking weed because they would meet at 420 because that just happened to be the time they always met up. So they were like, 420, we'll meet there. So that became the code 420 because that was when they met. That's the legend. Who the fuck knows? We have no idea if that's true.

I was under the impression that was the police code for it. I have no idea. I mean, who the police code for it i have no idea i mean who knows you know i mean like 187 or 211 i was under yeah 420 was i never i never matched it with a police code for some reason i don't know why well i mean it would make sense it would make sense i'm not saying you're wrong i could be very wrong i thought that the clap was called that because people would clap in the military when they found out that you had it because that meant that you were sleeping with the enemy. What it is, James, is disgusting.

I don't even want to tell you, but I have to. What it is is the old drippy dick. Yes. What they would do is clap a book around your junk to drain it. That's disgusting. When I was 21, I lived in an apartment complex. The guy I knew in the complex came over and asked me for a ride to the store because he had the clap and he needed to get some stuff. And I'm like, oh, my God.

Dude, my dick won't stop dripping. I was like, I barely know you. You're a neighbor. I got the clap. Can you take me to Barnes and Noble? Kramer never said any of this stuff. You know what I mean? He never came in and was like, hey, Jerry, I got the clap.

Hey, Jerry, take me to the bookstore. This is wild. Yeah. I had to take him to the grocery store. I don't even know what he wanted. So anyway, reviews of this place. Let's find out what people think. Here's four stars.

The people in this area are very kind and friendly. Everywhere you turn, there's a smiling face and someone to greet you. That sounds like the Full House song, I believe. That's the Full House. Everywhere you look, that's going to be the next lyric that comes out here. Although the land area is spread out, everyone seems to know one another, which makes it seem like a small town community. People are generally helpful. There's a good mix of young families and elderly couples, which adds to the value of the community. The value. Here's another four stars. It is mostly pet friendly, as you will see lots of dogs on the roads throughout the hills.

Yeah, those are for the blind. Those are untrained. That's good. Here's four stars. The owners are very nice. Owners of who? The land, the dog, the houses? What are you talking about?

Here's three stars. some places are very bad yeah that's it that's the whole review some places are very bad okay get out there and find them um i hope that person doesn't speak much english that's all i can hope for either that or i can't really complete a thought here's two stars here okay this person has a lot to say quote i hate to say it but this area and much of san rafael has deteriorated over the years on many levels taralinda was a great community in the 90s and early mid-2000s where i grew where when i grew up there nostalgia when i was there it was awesome because i was there yeah but starting with the demise of the north gate mall the place has become a dump.

Oh boy. The number one issue for me now, climate change has affected Terralinda greatly. Constant, strong, gusty winds make it very unenjoyable to be outside. You can't even use your yard if you have one most afternoons and evenings because it's so bad. Very dry, windy, bad for allergies and

people who like to be outside a lot. Even inside, sometimes it could feel like you're in the middle of a hurricane. You could close your windows. It shouldn't be windy in the house at all. See? You can fix that. You got a pretty nice AC unit, sir. I'm impressed.

Blew my hat off. The thing is pumping. Turn your fans off, buddy. So unpleasant living in a wind tunnel close your fucking windows you idiot uh especially if you're in the hills which is where most of taralinda is i do not remember it being this windy over enough about the fucking wind what can people we can't change the wind right now yeah and also i need to see when this was written if it was written in april you can go fuck himself right The summer heat slash sun can be brutal as well.

Now we're in a drought. Otherwise, not good dining options, more and more homeless slash transients, or mentally ill roaming around. But wind, for the most part. Don't forget about that. Don't forget the wind. People in this town, 61, this is San Rafael, is 61,158. In Terra Linda, it is 7091 wow when our case takes place there's way less in both places so we'll talk about that lives in a place of 7 000 yeah it's in

marin counties there are places that are very pretty in there so i'm sure he lives among big trees and yeah i bet he does that sort of shit. So I bet he has property, I would assume anyway. It's a few more males than females, which is the opposite of normal. The median age is 41. It's a little higher, but not that out of whack here. It's kind of a family place. You can commute to San Francisco. 50% are married. A lot of people with kids here.

You can have a yard and no one will poop in it. So they live there. and no one will poop in it. So they live there. So race of this town, 56.3% white, 2.3% black, 6.2% Asian, 29.7% Hispanic. So it's spread around a little bit here. Religion, 44% religious, and there's mostly Catholic here, I think, from the large Hispanic population. 31.6% Catholic.

As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the West Coast or something. Northern California. Northern California. 1.8% Jewish. What? Oh, my God. We can sing it finally. It's been so long.

Hava. Nagila. Nagila. Nagila. Hava. Nagila. I don't know the words. Hey. Hey. All right. Lookila. Nagila. Nagila. I don't know the words. Hey.

Hey. All right. Look at us. We did it, finally. Very impressive. Very impressive. Politically in this town, 82.3% is his last election, 82.3% Democrat, 15.8% Republican, 1.9% independent in Marin County.

Interesting. 1.9 percent independent in marin county the median household income here is 75 668 which is well above the national average which is like 54 000 but it's because james headfield's here cost of living though that's the median income here's the cost yeah he could be driving it up by yeah everyone makes 20 grand and then james makes $40 million, and that's how it works. So the cost of living, $100,000 is average. Here it's $217,000. Everything's expensive, but most of all, housing is expensive. Median home cost here, $1,209,300 on $76,000.

Good luck. Enjoy. This is the best place on the planet. That's crazy. This is a very pretty place, too. I mean, you're going to look at this and you go, well, yeah, I mean, if it wasn't that expensive, it would be overrun. That's the problem, because it's that pretty, but

it's still, you know, that's expensive. That's a little too expensive. And if we've convinced you, damn it, you've been saving, you just got a large inheritance, you just killed your spouse and got an insurance settlement. We have for you the Terralinda, California real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here, hold on to your socks because they will be blown through your shoes. $3,300 a month.

A little pricey. It's normally about $12,000, so that's a lot. Here's a two-bedroom, two-bath. It's a condo. If you're looking under a million, it's a condo. You're going to be connected. You're going to hear people fucking through the walls of you. Oh, God, the worst.

If you want to spend a good amount of money, it's fine. And it's your mortgage. You own this place, and you still hear people fucking. I mean, it's fine. It's got a little backyard space, but nothing major. $750,000 for that. Wow. Here is a five-bedroom, three-bath.

It's a big house. We don't have the square footage on it for some reason, but it's a big house. It was built in the 60s, but it's been redone on the inside in complete HGTV gray and white. Slate and white. You know, this will look... In five years, you'll hate this style. Yeah, in five years, you're going to be selling

this and people are going to go, ugh. That's from five years ago. Yeah. Because now you have to redo your kitchen every five years for some reason. $1,550,000 for this though and here is the last one four bedroom two bath built in 1960 this is an eichler home an original one of those eichlers there so it looks like it's a weird looking house there's so many windows it's definitely a certain stylized california type of house that you would imagine in your head

long ranch style yeah it head. Long ranch style? Yeah, it's like a ranch style, but it's got different weird level looking things. It's pretty cool. $2,495,000 for that. And it's not even half an acre. It's not a big property or anything like that. How many square feet? I don't know, but it's four bedroom, two bath.

It doesn't look very big. Maybe $2,000, $2,300 or something at tops. Just to get yourself an Eichler. That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. Things to do here. The May Madness Car Show. Yeah.

Right? And it says awesome cars! We hope so. It's a whole fucking show for it. Started in 86 with a bunch of guys with their fucking cars gathering in a parking lot. And then they decided to make it a bigger deal. guys with their fucking cars gathering in a parking lot and then they decided to make it a bigger deal now they have food trucks and food and you know bands that are so well known that you won't even name them so that's good that's all that's always really yeah james hatfield's right there just get

him to come and just go hey into a microphone and you Well, they can't do that because they have all of his cars in the show. You could draw him there with cars. That's the other thing. He has all his weird cars. Draw him in. Draw him in. And then there's the Marin County Fair, and it said it will return for the first time since 2019. The theme for this year, electrifying.

Oh, we got a theme. It's a theme, yeah. It's going to celebrate all things electric, solar, and charged with excitement. Okay. Oh, Jesus. This is going to be, this is a fair? What are we fucking talking about here? The 2023 fair will include such favorites as the Fine Arts and Photography Exhibit,

as all county fairs have. Is that a favorite? No, I don't think so. Usually, like, you know, Best Pig is a favorite in a county fair. Best Fried Hostess Product or something, not art. Headline concert, Sheepdog Trials, a petting zoo. Okay. Fireworks every night, plus popular competitive exhibits program will take place in person

and celebrate our talented and creative blah, blah, blah. Who gives a shit? Okay. It's electrifying, though. that's what they're going to say they're going to have again music that they won't tell you about right again and uh so that's never good we'll say no that's always a bad sign crime rate in this town what we're talking about obviously here property crime slightly high but not too too high and in the range of pretty normal still. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about a quarter under the national average. Oh, really?

So, yeah, this is a pretty safe place. I mean, it's definitely suburbia type of place here. So, that said, let's talk about some absolutely awful murder because we were uh got to get to this quickly because there's so much of it and just it's a it's a load here so man you want to talk about some crazy let's do it um all right let's talk about charles david riley okay which immediately made me think of charles nelson riley and he's coming in throwing come go throwing confetti everywhere well he just smokes like a bastard. Yeah, and smoking.

Those two people combined. This guy goes by Chuck, though. Okay. Chuck Riley. Hey, Chuck. So Chuck. Not bad. Yeah, Chuck is raised in a stable but not a lower middle class.

You know what I mean? Blue-collar parents, doesn't have a lot of money, but they're nice people. He's doing fine. Yeah, none of his parents, they don't beat each other. Nope, they didn't get divorced when he was two. It's a stable environment here. No early emotional problems, behavioral problems, anything like that. Grows up kind of a nice kid.

No juvenile delinquency. He's a fat kid, just to be honest. It's what he calls himself later on a lot. I'm a fat kid. I'm a nice kid no juvenile delinquency he's a fat kid just to be honest it's what he calls himself later on a lot i'm a fat i was a fat kid i'm a fat kid so he was a chubby kid growing up and but a nice kid nobody you know did disliked him or anything like that and growing up in the late 60s in the bay area here he was actually like kind of ostracized by all the other kids for not wanting to do any kind of drugs or party or anything oh really yeah you were like you don't even smoke a joint what are you a fucking square you know what i mean munchies and i'll get fatter that's yeah well they were they see they didn't have that problem they were like yeah they didn't get it but that was in his head

he's like oh and i know what that leads to and that is french fries i am not doing that so he that's but he he honestly all through high school that was his thing like oh he's lame he's yeah he's late well not really because we'll talk about he sells drugs but he just doesn't do drugs he's a weird guy uh one evening he kicked people out of his car for smoking weed okay get out of my car so the rest of the night somehow every time they saw him they would throw rocks at him and call him names which even if you like weed maybe you know you can't smoke in my car like i love weed if you lit a joint in my car i'd fucking kick you out in a heartbeat get out of what are you doing like weed in my car why would you smoke anything in my vehicle

my car smells nice still get out of here yeah and i once we get out ask me i'll pull over and we'll smoke all you want but not in the fucking car so but when i was a teenager we that we used the car as a mobile smoking unit that's all it was hot box it and shit everywhere it was because it was it was essentially what i wanted to do in my house but i was no not allowed because my parents left. Yeah. What did you do in Phoenix, though? You couldn't hotbox in Phoenix, could you? Oh, yeah. But what if it's hot?

I mean, we had air conditioning. I guess you just circulate the air. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, if you turn the circulator on, it just puts the weed back in the car. I guess, but it's filtering. I don't know. The snow was the best. If you pull in when it snowed, you just let the snow cover the car no one could see you in there and you just

hotbox it was just great and then you just hit the hit the windshield wipers and see what was around you there could be 30 people standing around staring at you we wouldn't care yeah even when you had the windows rolled up and and you're just smoking you can still smell that everywhere oh god yeah all over the place unless your car's covered in snow it literally seals it up a literal frozen water blanket oh it was great that was the most fun ever no one could see you could do that in like public places you pull into a grocery store parking lot and just park and let the snow cover your car for 15 minutes and you could just blaze right there and leave hilarious it was fun so uh that's he wasn't into that though not into hot boxing this guy yeah so apparently that night he got home um later on or this is i'm sorry separate incident one night he

got home and his father beat him up for something he didn't do okay so he was mad at his father this is right before his senior year he's pissed off at his father so he drops out of high school to spite his father huh because his father beat him up he only needed didn't he needed like a semester to graduate and he was like nope done what year is this this is 1973 this is going on wow yeah different time period and by the way next week will be a very uh is a modern very very modern episode here but this 73, this is going on. Wow. Yeah, different time period. And by the way, next week is a very modern episode here. But this, we only go back to like the 70s if it's like, holy shit, we got to talk about this. Like, wow, this is crazy.

It has to be insane for us to go back this far in time. So he drops out, like we said. He, during this time, has a few different jobs. He delivers newspapers, which is, you know, which is a tough job for an adult. That's not going to make you any money. Delivers pizza. I did that as a teenager. Bartends.

And he also works in a circuit board factory for a bit. Never lasts very long at any of these jobs. None of these are a career. He ends up working at a of these jobs. None of these are a career. He ends up working at a waterbed store in the mall in a little while. Wow. That's what he's doing, yeah. Whatever, he just sees in the paper what's hiring

and he goes and applies there. He's in that phase of life. Circle around it and I'll go talk to them about it later. How many times have you done that? Put in a bunch of applications in one day for jobs that had nothing to do with each other, that were completely different. One's a carpet cleaner, one's like a photographer at Sears, one's like you'll apply for anything. Also, none of them have anything to do with me or what I

want to do. I'll just do it for money. If they'll give me money to go there, I'd be thrilled. Yeah, I'll do it. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through

the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers

behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts he thinks of himself as the fat kid who girls don't like that's how he always thinks of himself

and he never dates any girls throughout all of high school and he'd like to date girls but they don't like him not only is he quote the fat kid but he's also the square kid you know what i mean so the clean cut girls want they want guys who like have money and you know they want like country club guys and he is neither fish nor fowl like or the bad boy that yeah you know i mean he's yeah he's so he doesn't do that either exactly so he can't find anybody that really likes him and that he can that he can you know hook connect with and then a girl falls into his lap and i mean literally falls into his lap uh-oh uh here tripped uh yeah when he's 19 a young lady named marlene olive comes into his life okay now marlene this is she they he meets her in october of 1974 he weighed 265 pounds he saw he said and he had been selling drugs at that point the way he put it to gain popularity he didn't care about even the money

he just he didn't care if he broke even he, that was a way to meet people and make friends. Friends. Yeah. Which if you sell drugs, you'll make friends. That's the thing. Oh, you betcha. I mean, people. Ish. I mean. Yeah.

They don't, they don't want to hang out with you, but if you can make them hang out for a half hour, if you really want to. Yeah. So this day in October 74, he's out on the front lawn of Terralinda high school hanging out for some reason, even though he hasn't been there in two years, as far as a student. Right. So then here comes Marlene Olive, who's 16 years old, and she is having a bad trip. LSD.

She took ass, and she's having a bad trip. Not good. Not good. So she kind of literally almost fell on him. Okay. And so he talked to her, and they said he knelt beside her, and he, quote, reassured her that everything would be okay, and that he would stay with her, and it's okay. You're going to be all right. Relax.

He didn't have any experience, really, with people with bad trips, and he really had no experience so he was like whoa this is like you know this is wild a meteor fell out of the sky and i gotta figure out what to do with it what do i do here so he immediately fell fall in love with her though that's one thing it's a girl and she's talking to him so and she's pretty too so he's like oh sweet this is great he thought she was the most beautiful girl in the world he told everybody just the wide world in the whole wide world out there times google infinity just everything so as a as a child would say so he said he was just he stopped by the school quote to see what was going on he's like wooderson from dazed and confused now he's mcconaughey's character coming in just hey you know the girls stay the same age.

Gross. 19, hanging out at the school. But he said while she was high and tripping, the other kids were harassing her, he said. That's why he was trying to protect her. Making fun of her? Well, they were saying things like, you're an orange and you're going to peel. They're trying to encourage her bad trip, which is really shitty to do to somebody. You're running through the forest.

You're running through the forest. I've been on acid. your mind is in a really malleable state at that point and you trust straight people too right people who are not high i mean not you know not like you're leery of gays at that point i'm saying you trust people who are sober at that point you look to them like like a rock like a pillar that you can hang on to when they tell you crazy shit you freak out so he said she seemed innocent at first and he felt sorry for her and he developed a deep crush on her as he put it from the minute i saw her that's right so he said from that point on they started hanging out he said from then on he was constantly stoned totally i mean all mean, all through high school, people threw rocks at him. They called him a pussy.

They didn't like him. All this shit. It took one girl looking in his eyes and him going, I'll smoke anything you put in my mouth. If I can put stuff in your mouth, you can put stuff in mine. Okay? I don't give a fuck. Whatever. That's how this is going to work.

Drugs. I don't care what you'd put in there, but I'll do it. That's wild. So he said they used weed they smoked weed they used acid and this is like real acid back in the day too um uppers and downers two pills uh coke they were doing coke in the early 70s he went hard absolutely um totally he said that she got him barbiturates and that really sprung him into liking drugs, I guess, because he liked that. Now, we'll talk a little bit about her family and where she's from, because she is not your typical person from around here either. She's not from around here because she's born in Ecuador. We'll talk about this. Yeah. How she came about here.

Her parents are James F f olive and naomi olive and the olive family we'll talk very quickly here about their background his her what would be her grandfather her great-grandfather her dad's grandfather settled in new york state from scotland and he was a laborer on farms and shit like that and then he ended up owning part of a prosperous dairy farm. And so then Jim's, uh, James, who is Jim Olive,

her father, uh, her father moved to Panama in 1925 to become business manager of a, of a newspaper down there in English language newspaper when her dad was a little kid, Jim. And then while he was still a kid, he, he's all, he loves get richick schemes, by the way, Jim Olive.

He loves it. So he would fuck all sorts of stuff up. This is his first major fuck-up. He goes to Penn State, all right? College, here. Goes to Penn State, and it stops quickly because he tries to be a scientist, is what he wants to do,

but he causes a huge explosion in the chemistry lab. Oh, no. And then he switched to business administration right after that. They were like, you're switching majors now. We can't afford for you to keep doing this. You're going to do paperwork from now on. Wow. So he graduated from doing that.

He worked with a New York literary agency for a while. So finding writers and stuff, that's pretty cool. And then he went back to Panama and had a harebrained scheme to develop beachfront building plots, which sounds like a good idea. Except that there were nobody near any of these places. This was like all the way out in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't like near a population center. So he built all this shit and nobody bought, not one person bought any. They just sat there.

Oh, my. Who knows? So then he worked, then the World War came along, the Second World War, obviously. And he worked as a mail censor in the military. And he made it to the rank of major, actually. Wow. Got a little rank. Now he's major.

He's going to be major dad in a minute. You betcha. We a little rank. Now he's going to be major dad in a minute. You betcha. We'll get there. On leave during 1944 in the summer, he met Naomi and married her. She's like 10 years younger than him or 7 years younger than him or something. I think 7 years is what it is because he's born in 1917. She's born in 22, so 5 years is the difference here. So, yeah, he does all of that meets Naomi and,

her father was also a farm laborer. So they have that in common. And her mother didn't have much of a career because she was committed to a mental hospital for the rest of her life. When Naomi was two. Oh yeah. And then Naomi's got some, uh,

you gotta feel like that's your fault, right? I, I don't know about that. I, but there is some there is some serious mental illness on Naomi's side of the family, at least from her mother, and then we'll hear from Naomi, too. She's not right in the head either, so there's some stuff going on here. That was a big portion of my problems via my therapist. My parents were married and had my sister, and then then i was born and my dad skedaddled

within a week and that's uh that'll make you feel like that's your fault i guess mom's gone before your before you're viable you know what i mean my parents when i was like one yeah yeah my parents put up when i was like certainly well i just assumed it was my fault yeah this is what naturally this is what you do. Why wouldn't it be? You know what I mean? They had other shit happening here and then me and then it's all broken. I never thought it was my fault until I had kids and then I went, wow, this is hard.

I must have done this to them. I like to leave. No, I must have done this to them. I'd say, okay. So that's how it goes. Naomi goes back and forth between her grandparents. And then her mother dies while she's a kid as well. And then she is adopted out. Her dad doesn't keep her.

Her grandparents don't keep her. Another family adopts her. Wow. Lucky for her, it's a wealthy family that adopts her. The decay family. Lucky for her, it's a wealthy family that adopts her, the decay family. So she said that everybody remembers her as a kid, that she was beautiful and very depressive and had a horrible temper and seemed a little off, basically. Real emo, huh?

Yeah, and also a little unstable. Oh. Yeah, you want to put it that way. So they wanted her, though, to marry somebody who was of their means here. So this is the same time when, before the Olives came back to Panama and they ended up meeting and all that kind of shit. So he's discharged from the military, Jim. He's married to Naomi. He tries to sell more property. Naomi doesn't like it down there.

No? She doesn't like it in South America. She doesn't like the heat she doesn't like insects she doesn't like any of this shit she doesn't speak spanish she doesn't give a fuck about any of this stuff so doesn't care not interested it's hot there's bugs and everyone's speaking spanish don't give a shit she doesn't give a fuck goddamn jungle i want out i want out. So Jim would then get a job in the oil industry, and he is Central American Advertising Manager for Standard Oil, which is a giant company, obviously. So when his mother died, it left him a substantial inheritance here, too. So now everything's coming together for Naomi and Jim here. They're doing okay. They have kind of a nest egg now.

So Naomi said, let's move back to the U.S. So they bought a block of apartments in Florida. Oh. And Jim tried to make money off of that. And then he had a whole bunch of other schemes with all this money. He was starting all these businesses and all of them failed. And basically drained his inheritance to almost nothing. Oh, no.

He just blew it all trying to do things that were ill-advised he would have been better off just putting it in a savings account and having it making a tiny bit of interest or a mutual fund or something a bond he's doing these high risk uh low reward situations he's a i want to be an overnight millionaire guy and he doesn't want to just have the money that he inherited. He wants to make his own money out of that, you know, which some people aren't talented to do that. That's the problem.

True. Yeah. You can want it all you want. You could be a nice person, but that doesn't mean you're talented at business. It's just not. You got to know how to do it and you got to know what you're doing. You could love baseball. It doesn't mean you're talented at baseball either.

You know what I mean? It's some people have different talents for different things. you're talented at baseball either you know what i mean it's some people have different talents for different things so by 1955 jim's in virginia with phillips petroleum uh but at the time there he he was doing terrible they were almost bankrupt so he was doing all of that and they decided then since we're almost bankrupt really at the edge here things aren't going the way we planned we should adopt a kid now oh god let God. Let's adopt a child. So the family friend recalled, quote, it wasn't really Jim's idea.

Naomi wanted a child desperately. She needed something of her own. So they find Marlene, who was three days old at the time, when they adopt her. She's the daughter of a young woman from a very prominent family from Virginia and a sailor from like Norway or some shit. So that's who she is.

She's going to grow up in Ecuador though. So she's from here, but then they're going to move to Ecuador. That's where she grows up. So they said Naomi immediately was very possessive of the kid, like all over her. I finally got a kid and no one else is touching it type of deal. So one said, quote, she was very clinical in her approach to motherhood. I don't remember her being overly loving in a spontaneous way.

Naomi would never go out, not even to the movies or a dinner party. Naomi, I tell her, you'll smother the child to death. And she kind of does kind of smother her to death a little bit. That's the problem. And around and she doesn't like it, Marlene. It's not like they're super close and they have an unbreakable bond. Marlene's like, get the fuck away from me. I don't even drive me nuts.

So at the age of 10, she's rummaging through her father's stuff in a filing cabinet and she finds that she's been adopted they never told her really she found her adoption papers and was like oh what the fuck is this about i'm adopted we're gonna tell you later yeah so that's that's pretty wild one teacher in the sixth grade uh when she's in ecuador said quote one day we were discussing motherhood, what it's like to be a mother and how your life changes. Marlene raised her hand and said out of the blue, quote, I hate my mother. To interrupt a teacher's soliloquy to say, I hate my mother, just wanted to let everybody know that. Ted, that's pretty fucking funny. I hate my mother. The teacher goes let everybody know that. Ted, that's pretty fucking funny.

I hate my mother. The teacher goes on to say, just matter of fact. Well, the other kids were shocked into silence. And I guess Marlene felt she had to do more explaining. So after a while, she added, she's not my real mother. I'm adopted. That's why she doesn't love me. Oh, my God.

She really feels that way. That's, she really feels that way. That's awful. You know? So then she said that later on Marlene learned that the way to piss her mother off was to ask about her natural parents. That was the way to piss her mom. Naomi would freak out. So that's how to, that's the button to push. And it would provoke a huge rant.

And she would call her, her natural mother, a quote, gutter tramp, which wasn't true. She was just young and she was a rich her natural mother a quote gutter tramp which wasn't true she was just young and a she was a rich young girl where they're like you're not keeping that fucking right scandal baby in our house keeping that no shame right yeah you get that we shame burden nope we told everyone you were away at school for the summer you know you're doing a year abroad now

right come on back here and by way, do some sit-ups. We don't want anybody to see the remnants. You know what I mean? Yeah. Long shirts. Long shirts. Think baggy. So James, the father, Jim, he's just working all the time apparently.

So he doesn't have a lot of time for Marlene. She really likes him though and he's nice her, but he has no time for her. They would go sometimes. Naomi wouldn't go places. She stopped going out in Ecuador completely. She would just sit in her room and drink. She would sit in her room and drink. She had fish tanks, booze,

and she was fish tank. She would talk to shit. We'll talk about it. She kind of loses her mental stability here. And on top of that it did i don't know if it was the bugs or what but she lost her goddamn mind it's too close to the equator there's a magnetic field i get something i maybe we should study that so he would take the jim would take marlene to parties with him for like work parties and stuff he'd take the

kid with him instead and he'd say here's my other girlfriend which is creepy it's a little weird i don't like that at all so he would join a lot of times he would be because the parents obviously slept in separate beds this relationship isn't going well so she would when she would wake up in the middle of the night she'd go sleep with her dad rather than her mom she felt safer with him and shit like that she wrote a poem to him when they were in ecuador and it's called daddy's sweetheart and i certainly i got the gist i don't want to hear it well it's like two lines here that we uh we have to find here allison was very excited about finding this particular poem buried deep in a newspaper quote long brown hair could entice any man and her green eyes could light the night

daddy couldn't have chosen any better i don't know that's that's those are lines from the poem so like i'm gonna be sick yeah i don't know and apparently there's no weird there's no molestation going on here no it's just not even any behavior she's just like yeah they're just she's very possessive of her father and her mother's very possessive of her so okay that's kind of how it goes is writing gross shit and no that's she wrote that not him she wrote that about her father she wrote that as a child he didn't write that oh she wrote that about herself i'm daddy's sweetheart yeah that's wow oh boy so right around then jim's business deals went completely to shit and he goes they go bankrupt which isn't good at all loses all his life savings his inheritance is

totally gone he's really fucked it all up he's blown it so naomi is so overwhelmed by losing all this money because she came for money too so this isn't like well we started with nothing we'll you know we'll get it back this is what are you talking about you don't have money i'm with you because you have money so she developed a nervous tick in her eyebrows like she was noticeably twitchy and shit that's how it was like a poor twitch yeah whoa and uh not only that she had a tendency to have huge public meltdowns and would just talk to herself. And when she talked to other people, she just wouldn't stop talking. It was like an alcoholic and then later on she's also diagnosed with quote uh schizoid personality with paranoid features okay which sounds like a lot of fun to mix with alcohol and have in your house that sounds great i think that's what jim carrey had and knew myself and irene well she would quote conduct animated conversations in different voices with several

invisible people at a time oh my god she's got a hank she's yeah she's fucking sybil like this is why this is drowning kids in public fountains and this is mom oh my god wow this is mom man that's so what the fuck yeah that's terrifying if you're a kid no wonder she hates her mom. Yeah. And she's also very overbearing, and Naomi thinks she's being loving, and she does it in a way that no one else sees as loving. Everyone else sees it as suffocating. Wow. It's not great. So finally, Jim gets a good job with the Tennessee Gas Transmission Company as their Ecuadorian sales manager.

All right. Sales manager in Ecuador. He's not Ecuadorian. They're Ecuadorian sales manager. All right. Sales manager in Ecuador. He's not Ecuadorian. So they move back down there, but now they have money.

And also he's making a very good American salary and living in Ecuador where it's a tenth of the cost of living. Awesome. So they are living like sultans down here. Terrific. He also, he's good socially. He goes out and does work stuff and social things. Naomi will not leave the house, stays home. They have maids, multiple maids, like a bunch of them. They can afford to have a bunch of help.

And they all do the shopping. And Jim does the business functions and all that kind of thing. functions and all that kind of thing as she goes on she and this is fucking crazy she starts to naomi gets a little wackier and wackier she starts to blame and get angry and start yelling at merchants and the maids who would go to buy things because she said she's getting ripped off by the store people all the time now they're ripping her off and she thinks that all the country club wives because there's an american country club down there with all the employees they they all want to fuck her husband oh in her mind they're all gonna fuck her husband and also her maids want to steal her silver so she keeps firing maids and hiring them because they're not because they stole silver because they're planning on stealing the silver yeah they're conspiring against her silver collection so the only thing that she has any kind of control over in this whole world is what

that little girl little girl marlene that's right so that's when it gets worse and worse and worse jim gets fired again he's not good at much he gets fired no businesses collapse things explode he's good at finding the fucking top side. No. Businesses collapse. Things explode. He's good at finding the fucking top side of things, though. How do you keep getting good salaried things? He's got to be a hell of an interview. We'll put it that way. He's got to be.

The way he does these business ideas, I assume other people are probably going in partners with him. He's got to have a hell of a pitch. The interview is great. Yeah. Just a real good social. He has to be. Yeah. Confident. I don't know.

So he gets fired know so he gets fired but he gets a better job oh boy better job uh gulf oil hires him as their general manager in ecuador so he's he's worked for standard phillips and now gulf looks like the three biggest he gets fired and gets a better job every time it's fucking it's wild so uh they're sleeping in separate bedrooms jim and naomi obviously not at all jim ends up he talked his way into the general manager job by the way he wasn't qualified for it but they said damn it this guy's got it he's just something about him he's got the he can make it work but then after a while they realized this guy's not as good as we thought he was

so he gets demoted because they noticed that he wasn't any good which is surprising they demoted him usually if there's that what's it called that one principle where you get demoted to a point of incompetence and then you stay there for the rest of your life yeah that's what it is you get demoted you always get demoted slightly above what you're good at or at least different than that person's really great at that we should make them do that instead like oh okay it's really blackballed in the company but you at least get to keep your keep a job yeah he's demoted to head of sales which is still a job neither of us could ever hope for in our lifetime i'm not getting ahead of anything i'm not even getting an interview for that ever so yeah not bad i guess but not the

general manager which was a much better job here and he uh he i guess there's a whole bunch of things that go wrong in the company in the sales department while he's doing he's a he's like a walking disaster it seems like yeah it sounds like a nice guy who just walks and pianos fall on his head but he he talks a big game though and then he fucking just yeah ruins everything he's good socially and it just doesn't work out otherwise. Naomi drinking more and more and more. Oh, boy. He's fired by golf after a few months. He's fired, by the way, a few months before he's eligible for retirement benefits as well because he was going to be getting older.

So, yeah, that's not wonderful. Now, at home, though, Marlene loves her father and her father loves her. Jim and Marlene get along great, but it still doesn't matter because she's fighting. He's not home a lot, and she's always fighting with her mother. One point, one argument they said ended with, quote, Marlene biting her own forearm or she would bang her head against the wall in frustration. That's the kind of thing that, yeah. That's such child behavior.'s not adults yeah that's well that's no that's marlene as a child oh that's not even mom no that's marlene would get so frustrated with her mother that's what she would do because well her mother is not

probably also not reasonable she's yeah she's drunk all the time and has severe mental issues that she's not treating and instead drinking, which was only going to make them worse. Sit there and gnaw on your tibia? Yeah, you're just going to. Whatever it is. I think that's in your leg. I'm not sure.

Fibula? Yeah, I think they're both in your leg as a matter of fact. Radius ulna. There you go. Nailed it. So Marin County here, they end up in marin county because an advertisement in the wall street journal is what he followed it said quote become the businessman's businessman what does this sound like immediately in one sentence uh infomercial scam sounds like you're

gonna sell you know a kai berry fucking shakes to people yeah it sounds like whatever the fuck it is i don't know what it is it sounds like you're gonna sit there and stare at somebody and they're gonna charge you for the words that they say and then they send you out into the world i feel like the word downline is gonna come up at some point you know what i'm saying that's what i see i see i see facebook posts with you know champagne glasses and shit like that. Fucking buy this toothpaste. Then you have seven people selling toothpaste. And then everybody they have.

On the same block. So General Business Services is the company here. And it said America's leading business management and tax service offers franchises to qualified counselors. They're just selling off franchises. Franchises of what? Tax services? Tax services and business management. To be like a business advisor slash tax guy, financial guy. There's no product.

He buys the – no, you're buying the name of – you can put this logo up on your thing and here's your literature to hand out to people and all that shit. You're selling H&R Block. Yeah, and then you're selling yourself at that point. I guess you're more of a financial advisor, I think. A lot of times the accounting and tax services goes along with that kind of shit. But there's no fucking inventory. No, you're the inventory. Yeah.

You're buying the name and here's how you run this business. There you go. Genius. At least if you buy a McDonald's franchise, they send you the burgers and you can make them. Here's our shake machine that breaks after five minutes but when it's working, it's going to be phenomenal. You don't have to go build your own.

Here's a machine that holds fake eggs together. That's part of the gig. He selects the Marin County franchise because there was different areas you could buy. And he wants that to be his sales base. So they move back and that's when they settle in here.

And Jim's a hard worker. Everybody says that. He might be untalented, I guess would be the best way to put it. But he wakes up at 6 a.m. and he works his ass off 14 hours a day, which makes it sadder, honestly. At least if he was lazy, there'd be an excuse. He's driven to fuck up yeah like my main problem is i don't feel like doing shit like so is yours you know what i mean if you we actually apply ourselves stuff gets done we make shows you know what i mean we get on the road we do all our stuff all the editing gets done everything with this guy he's like up and at him everybody let's do

more we're gonna have 14 hours of fucking up today, everybody. Let's go. And then he leaves the house. 14 hours of redos all day. Let's do it. Comes home with things worse than they were before. Would have been better off if he just stayed home all day. Not good.

So once they get here, Marlene has lived nowhere except Ecuador her whole life. And now she's in Marin County. Yeah, and now she's a young teenager in Marin County, and she's been nowhere but Ecuador. So this is like culture shock for her, too. Marin County isn't, you know, back then it wasn't. Like now we gave you the racial breakdown. It's a little diverse. There's different, you know, people.

I don't think a lot of people spoke Spanish in Marin County in 1973, you know, 1974. I just don't imagine that's true. Yeah. So she speaks English, too. But, you know, she's more she's Ecuadorian, basically, even though she's not, you know, by birth. But so she and also Naomi even has a hard time adjusting to Marin County as well. And the reason for her, though, isn't because of the place or the culture or anything like that like her daughter the and also the schools down there they say are much more laid back and then california is a much more fast pace with the schooling you know american schools are you know the bell rings you go to the next class you got three minutes it's it's tight you know you do what

you do it's it's like you're a little factory you're a little factory worker and you go to the next stage all the time and up now you go to that assembly line so it's well i mean that's kind of how it's laid out so it's certainly an assembly line of education it is well how else would you do it though with that many kids right you gotta you can't sit them all in a circle like it's too many we gotta get at some point you gotta go somewhere else to learn your history because this teacher does nothing but math this this many in this room learning this from this time to this time and when the bell rings you get your fucking asses over there otherwise it would be a chaos so they uh do all this but her main problem naomi is that

it's they're much poorer now than they were in ecuador when he had a high-powered american job in ecuador they had they had. Many, they had a big property. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're in California is crazy. Now you're middle-class family. You live in a, you know,

1500 square foot house. It's not even an Eichler for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? It's, it's nice car with four doors with a big motor that smokes and takes a shitload of gas. It's still, and this is not,

they're not broke. They're not poor. They're living a lot better than a lot And this is not, they're not broke, they're not poor, and they're living a lot better than a lot of people are living, especially in the broader world. But this is the worst she's ever lived. And Naomi is not a fan of it. She continuously talks to everyone and describes it as her, quote, reduced circumstances.

Wow. Reduced circumstances. Due to my reduced circumstances um and they said that the more this happened the snobbier she'd get which is strange really yes the poorer or the more higher up in the air her nose would go she because they bought it's a normal house and you know all that kind of thing and she would tell everybody like you know this house we had a much bigger house so this is just take it easy just so you know yeah yeah um then she started being scared of starving like they're gonna not have a because they live in a middle-class house now the next step is no food no food yeah yeah

imagine if this lady had to live paycheck to paycheck in an apartment, like the way we were brought up, like she would be terrified. Oh man. The, the, the anxiety. And we're looking at your,

and we're looking over at your mom's gas tank and go, and shouldn't we get gas soon? And her go, well, maybe not right now. It's, you know, they couldn't afford it.

That's that car lurch. And she's like, we better stop. She's never had that problem. No. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And now she started to hoard food, canned food in the garage. Oh, no. So they won't starve.

Yeah. She's hoarding canned food. And they said that she would stay in her locked bedroom and drink and do all this shit. And people would hear her different voices arguing all the time. And she'd be arguing with her sister about something that happened in 1932. Shit like that. Yeah. Her sister's not there she's just

arguing with her arguing with whoever from 40 years ago or whatever the fuck yeah she's losing her goddamn mind so marlene had to go to um a different school she switched from taralinda high to a different high school it's more of a one-on-one thing because she has a lot of problems we'll talk about it's pretty much it'sfinanced school, but she tells everybody that it's an exclusive private school. That's why we live in this small house because we're sending our daughter to such a good school. Her education comes before our comfort, so someday she'll pay us back. I'll eat beans out of the garage until she graduates. Yeah, she's creating her own little fantasy world.

So Marlenelene having a hard time like we said doesn't want to deal with her mom her dad's never home he's working 14 16 hours a day doesn't have a lot of time for her so she's having a hard time so what she gets into is drugs and and uh witchcraft yeah and thieving likes to steal shit, tell people she's a witch, and then trip out a lot. That's her jam. She's a fun 70s. She's like a heart song, this chick. She's the third heart sister there, the third Wilson sister who was too fucked up to be in the band.

So she's all into that shit. She writes poetry all the time she's super emo real sullen real like hardcore teenager to the max here uh her poetry though here's want to hear a line i sure do it's not about her dad anyway so that's good thank god not about how her dad thinks she's hot that's helpful uh quote no one stops to step into my life, and those in it have long ago fallen asleep. I have been empty for so long. She's deep, man. Yeah.

This is a teenager trying to. Begging for attention. Begging for attention and a lot of things also. Trying to cheat. Every teenager, when you're a teenager you think your experience is unique no matter what it is so yeah i can only be me going through this when a lot of people go through a similar thing maybe not quite to the weird extreme she is though probably yeah but if you take if you talk to your kids parents kids friends parents you'll hear them

say their kid is the exact same as your fucking yeah probably but the kids are the same but then when you talk about the home life oh your mom paranoid schizoid tendencies talking to old family members in her own voices through a fucking locked door where she's been drinking for four days telling everybody that she has reduced circumstances and making you bite your arm and slam your head against the wall, all that normal? Kids would be like, well, I mean, my mom's a, she's a bitch and all. She wouldn't drive me to the mall last week. I thought that was fucked up. You know, that's what they would say back.

Yeah. It's a little weird. It got to the point where she would try to, Marlene would not be allowed to leave the house. Naomi would try to keep her in the house, which is hard when you're shit-faced behind a locked door, though. That's why Marlene would get out a lot. They would get into such big fights.

Naomi would overreact about something. This would include her room not being tidied up, which plenty of people fight with their teenagers over. But then smaller things like slicing, having Marlene slice celery and she sliced it just normal rather than slicing it diagonally how she wanted.

So they would get into a giant, major, insane blow up over it. And it would end with Marlene yelling at her and then giving her mother the Nazi salute and screaming Heil Hitler at her and walking away. She's Hitler. She's very frustrated. Yes. She's to the point of my mom's Hitler. That's the point she's at. Which I've known teenagers that have called their parents Hitler before.

But they didn't go to that extreme of screaming Heil Hitler in their face. She's heiling in the kitchen while chopping celery. Yeah. And then throwing celery, wrongly cut celery on the floor afterwards. So this would often escalate to physical fighting as well between the two of them and it was a mess. So at school, she was described by her teachers as someone who would tell big stories. She wants herself to be important, Marlene, here.

A former teacher at her high school said, quote, she told me she had a lot of big hassles at home and she was going to split. This is very 70s. It sure is. She said she was going to split, man. She totally just took off, man. She's going to make like a banana from home. She wore a fur jacket and a lot of jewelry so she

her former life she told me she went to a lot of big parties where there was a lot of drinking a lot of dope and a lot of sex who tells their teachers this in high school yeah this isn't another kid this is a teacher what'd you do this weekend kids i fucked 12 guys and did a bunch of drugs and went to a cool party that's not a thing you announce to your teachers. I live like the fucking stones on the weekend. She just described that chicken almost famous is what she just described, like Kate Hudson. So she spoke obviously amazing Spanish there, so she would work as an aide in Spanish class. She didn't really – she'd get the grade and just help out because she didn't really need to.

She's fluent. Didn't need to be taught Spanish by these people. She lived in fucking Ecuador forever. But the teacher said, quote, I had to drop her as a teaching assistant and I took her to a counselor. You couldn't believe everything she said. Oh. Yeah, that makes sense. So that's when she was transferred out and went to a special quote one-to-one school

in san rafael we're gonna keep a real close eye on you is what that means yeah so now this is when she's tripping out and falls in the into chuck's arms in the front of taralinda high school which for some reason she was there even though she didn't go there either neither of them went there so chuck and marlene initially marlene wasn't into chuck physically because she thought he was too fat she said yeah too heavy then she realized that wow he's he gives me gifts and drugs and stuff and he treats me really well so right fuck it when i'm fucked up he doesn't rape me that's the other thing or like you know throw me in a ditch or something so she said from that or this went on and from that time he ends up chuck says that this got the

relationship got better and better until quote we had sex every day oh in hillsides in cars in bedrooms you know everywhere just if you've if this is the first girl that'll look at you and now she'll fuck you in any setting you are gonna I'd give her drugs and do things for her, too. At that point, you do anything for her. Give her whatever she wants. That's oh, my God. Are you kidding me? This is how to get you the entire state of California.

You give me a week. You have no idea. This guy would rob a bank for you if you told him to. He'd do anything. So Chuck said that they're having sex everywhere, and he also said that she had like a power over him. We'll talk about where that power came from. It's called pussy, friend. Well, yeah. He said, quote, this is amazing,

it made him perform sex acts at Marlene's command. Just do whatever. That's right. Even with another friend in Marlene's command. Just do whatever. That's right. Even with another friend in Marlene's presence. Marlene had him fuck one of her friends, apparently. A girl? Yeah, yeah, a girl. Otherwise, I think this would be a different type of thing.

He said, I was embarrassed, but she wanted it. Okay. It would speak to how much power she really had really has yeah that would be a lot of power yeah if she was like take it in the fucking can and he was like pardon me you got it babe yeah yeah he bent right over no but this is a different thing this is uh she likes to watch apparently okay so she wants to watch she's a party girl that's for sure she threatened on numerous occasions that if she didn't get money, drugs, sexual favors, things that she wanted, that she would, quote, turn to prostitution if he didn't do the shit that she wanted. I'll get it myself.

I'll go be a prostitute. If you can't do it for me legally, I'll blow dudes for all of you. Which would make his jealous 19-year-old crazy mind explode. And he was like, no, I'll do anything you want. Rather than going, listen, you fucking crazy lunatic. You do whatever you want and fuck whoever you want. I'm done here. You nipple of asshole.

I'm not doing it. I got a little confidence up now. I think I can pull another girl here. This is crazy. You're making me do illegal shit. I got one to do. Crazy wild shit I've always wanted. Yeah, that's it.

And also there's pictures and everything else it's wild so he gets into drugs now a lot as we talked about he's doing all sorts of things he said it was a surrender to peer pressure and just to be rebellious against his dad that's what he said according to his friends he was a guy who was quote eager to please and generous to a fault and a follower who was always looking for someone to lead him. He was that kind of guy, which there's a lot of people like that. Once they're dating, it gets worse because you'll follow someone who's nice to you. Imagine someone will blow you. You'll follow them into the fucking fires of hell.

It doesn't matter anywhere. hell it doesn't matter anywhere so they said that marlene also it seems like a lot of people said that she was having trouble quote distinguishing her fantasies from reality and chuck was confused and became hopelessly entrapped in the web of her imagination the one friend said lured there in part by her continued threats to break off the relationship okay anything he would say any kind of resistance to anything she would say i'm going to break up with relationship. Anything he would say, any kind of resistance to anything, she would say, I'm going to break up with you and go be a prostitute. And then he would be like, okay, I'll do whatever you want. So

he said he never stole anything in his life except for a couple of candy bars when he was a kid. And he said that she made him steal clothes from 25 to 30 different stores for her. They're all women's clothes that he stole and um he said quote she'd rather that i stole it than i buy it for her so it wasn't even like you

need to get this for me okay cool i'm selling drugs i'll buy it for you she's like that's not how i want it i want you to steal it for me yeah it's not great it's not fun to wear if it's not fucking earned that way that's's what I'm saying. So that's a little weird. And he also said that he believed Marlene's a witch and that her eyes have power over him. Oh, her eyes can do that? Her eyes can, yeah. She's a Medusa. Like a beam type of thing, yeah.

Some sort of eye light beam Medusa control. She can make me do things or turn me to stone thankfully she's just making me do things you know what i mean she's got things she needs done i could be stoned someday but for now i'm now i'm just stoned and okay yeah getting getting lots of ass at the moment so hell yeah he wants to keep marlene and her witchcraft powers over him apparently she, she broke up with him briefly twice, and he attempted suicide two different times. Oh, boy. So this is a very unhealthy relationship. He's so deep.

All around, yeah. Now, because the parents don't like him, the Olives, they don't like him, so they ban Chuck from the home, saying he's a bad influence. I think the influences go both ways, but that's fine. Everyone's a bad influence. It's a bad cocktail. Those two shouldn't be together is what it is. She shouldn't be in that house either.

No, that's the other thing. Yeah, she needs something here. Now, March 26, 1975, he gets arrested for stealing $1,114 worth of clothes for her what year 1975 do you know how many fucking how much clothes that is that's that's either out of sears that's the entire department or that's out of like a really fancy store where they fucking keep an eye on you it was several different stores where then once once they found them stealing and one they went back to other places they were and they said oh yeah we saw them and they put the they made you know put the inventory match to it and found out they stole it eleven hundred fourteen dollars of shit that's so much she would go with him and tell him what to take she'd go scout and be like

take this take this take this she'd have like a shopping list for him and point it out and then he'd steal it so five thousand dollars worth of shit yeah that's a that's a ton of now going to the store yeah and back then too like clothes were less expensive regular clothes this is before really designer names that jacked up the price a shirt or not a really good shirt would be twenty dollars you know what i mean rather than three hundred dollars now you know something like there's some crazy i don't know what the fuck people pay for their shirts i've seen a hundred dollar t-shirts oh my god i don't know how that's that wow i will never own that but that's crazy i wouldn't want it even if that was like a reasonable financial decision i still wouldn't want that it'd be like

that's okay i'll buy it their pants yeah their pants are a thousand dollars oh my god i'll buy a twenty dollar t-shirt and spend the rest on weed. You know, that seems more reasonable. See how responsive. There are hoodies that are five, $600, James. They look just like a Nike hoodie. But I got Nike hoodies. I don't know.

And they're $60 on Amazon. I can get the tall ones too. I don't know. What's happening. I don't know what makes them that money. And they don't have like, they don't have like a label even that says what they are, but, but other rich people know what they are though though i think that's one of those things where like if you have a like a 1400 plain white t-shirt they know i go it's a plain white t-shirt but if you go somewhere with rich people they go oh that's that one t-shirt i know what that is

yeah i've seen that that's just a weird life that i never want to lead i hope i want that nope i never want to be that and don't want to have that much money everyone calm down out there don't don't get us any any more fucking uh whatever this is yeah this could explode someday into something we don't want like space outfits that he that are cut off you know yeah he's out of his fucking mind that's what it is it's that shit it's so weird i don't but he's mentally ill also so there's sure you know that's also other people wear the same shit though they do then they look at him and go oh okay oh yeah there it is there it is so they're very sullen chuck said he remembers the the first time marlene raised a particular

subject and he said quote we were all bitching about things we didn't like school being hassled by police our parents laying down all these rules you know the man basically teenage shit in the 70s that's the man yeah so they're having a they're basically having the plot of dazed and confused right now what are sin is going out with yeah yeah passing around a joint what our sin's going out with mila jovovich and that's instead of the other guy and that's what's happening so he said they were all all upset about that and he said quote marlene began talking about how much she hated her parents she said quote i wish they were dead i wish someone would kill them i know what you her friend said i know what

you mean my parents are a real drag too somebody's gonna get it she's like i know what you mean is it hyperbolic you know what i mean i wish somebody would kill them i've heard people say shit like that they don't mean it me too my parents are a real drag too that's what she said a real drag man it was tough so then within a few weeks though then she started talking about specifically how maybe would be good ways for them to die yeah because somebody said i get it i guess she's like yeah i get it too she thought well maybe we could get some their insurance money from them i'm their only kid so maybe yeah so she eventually turns to chuck and said you know you got to help me with this chuck said on one of their phone conversations she said quote it's either me or that bitch either i'm gonna do her in or myself you know

or you must know someone who'd help us out so either i'm gonna kill her or i'm gonna kill myself unless you know someone oh my yeah that's very manipulative there and he's such a fucking idiot he's like okay let me help you rather than going i don't know bitch that sounds crazy i'll talk to you later which is the normal thing to do so yeah i guess the uh there was a huge fight right around this time about celery, the cutting of celery. And Marlene called her mom, quote, bitch, crazy lady. One day they're going to cart you off in a straight jacket and marched away. Okay. So things have completely broken down.

When Jim heard about this horrible fight that was a huge big blow off here or big blow up. He just dismissed it and said they're both, quote, fishermen's wives. That's all they're being. They're just being fishermen's wives. What is that? Okay. I didn't know what that was either. I'm glad this is not a term that we all know.

So I looked it up in several sources. Okay. Now, the HarperCollins Dictionary, fish wife. This is fish wife, not fisherman wife Harper Collins dictionary. Yeah. Fish wife. This is fish wife, not fisherman wife. This is fish wife. Now, I'm assuming it's not a woman who's married to a fish. So I assume this is a fisherman's wife.

And it says, quote, If you say someone is behaving like a fish wife, you mean they are shouting a great deal and behaving in a very unpleasant and bad tempered way. OK, so they talk. It's a sailor. It's a British term. It's a British term. Yeah, you're a bunch of fishwives arguing back and forth. Now, in the Urban Dictionary, Fisherman's Wife is, quote, a woman, girlfriend, wife, et cetera, that is never happy with what she has and always wants more. Betty, I want that new purse and those shoes and that skirt. Tom, stop being a fisherman's wife.

I got a feeling that's what they are yes and then there's also fish wife which is also in the urban dictionary two separate words though not one word like in the regular dictionary yeah and that says a man or woman who collects other people's gossip and spreads it around to all and sundry to gossip like an old fishwife. So a complaining, loud, jabbering person of this woman of this time. So just a couple of fishwives, fisherman's wives. Just a couple of fishwives. So then at one point, he ends up, they have another fight, and Jim sides with Naomi against Marlene.

Marlene feels betrayed now. so now it's really bad um she uh you know it's getting awful so this is real bad so may 14th 1975 charles is arrested again chuck here uh possession of a weapon and marijuana this time oh that's oh yeah so the end of the school year comes and jim finds out how badly Marlene did at school and threatens to send her away to a boarding school in the fall. You're not going to go back to your school. You're going to go to a fucking boarding school, blah, blah, blah. And she and he also said, I'm going to end up I'll get you put in juvenile hall for the summer and then you'll go to boarding school. So he said that for bad grades.

I don't know how you do that and i figured that's you for this d they're probably all full up from you know actual criminal children but that's fine yeah i guess you could probably figure something out but no hello 911 yeah my daughter got a c can you send a couple squad cars over here my daughter is not applying herself in her biology class is there any way yeah i would bring three four people she will bite her own forearm and she'll hire you she'll hire you so be ready for that she's gonna hire all over again against the hallway will you wait and see this shit's crazy so she told chuck quote they're sending me away you better do something

faster we're finished if you can't find someone else to do it you do it Chuck do it yourself please Chuck pretty please after we collect the insurance money we'll have enough to get married and move away to Ecuador fuck man they want to go she wants to go to Ecuador so yeah this is now she she's talking about not just mom we should just kill both of them. You know what I mean? At one point in May, she puts Darvon and Dalamane, which is a drug in her mother's food. Oh, she puts drugs in her mother's food to try to poison her. Darvon and Dalamane?

I don't know. I've heard of Darvon before, but I don't know what Dalamane is. So they whatever she said though that she um you know she tried that didn't really work her mom didn't even she thought some gas well she thought the food didn't taste very good and went into the bath so there was that yeah so then she's asking you know chuck to find somebody chuck at point said, why don't you go to a foster home? You could do that. Yeah, just get out of there. You know, until it eases the situation. And he said he found a family for her to move in with, actually, just outside of town.

And so they'd move. She actually moves out, moves in with them. But it, quote, that didn't work out, Chuck said. Uh-oh. Yeah. So, by the way, Chuck isn't the first person she's brought this up to. No? At one point on a double date, this is not with Chuck, with another guy, before Chuck or during one of their breakups, Marlene's date said later on that Marlene had asked him to, quote,

supply a bomb so that she could blow up her parents' car. Two other young men here who are friends of both Chuck and Marlene said they also had sexual relations with her as well later on. Different guys that they know. Gosh, she's so much fun. And she told them that she was a witch. Oh, okay. And yeah, that's what he said, too. Chuck will tell anybody to listen.

She can make him do things against his own will with her powers. Quote, powers. All she does is take her tits out. I don't think it's beams coming will with her powers. Quote powers. All she does is take her tits out. I don't think it's beams coming out of her eyes. They're coming out of her tits. She lifts her shirt and he goes, I'll do what you want. Look, it's fun to put those in your mouth,

man. It's not a curse. It's not a spell. To her, to him, it's fucking witchcraft. That's exactly what it is. It is otherworldly. I don't know what to tell you. Her tits are other fucking worldly. That's exactly what it is. It is otherworldly, bro. I don't know what to tell you. Her tits are other fucking worldly. That's what he's saying.

They are. To him, they... Yeah. Forces from beyond come through those nipples and into his eyes. Oh, my God. It's also fun to drag your tongue down a pussy. I don't know what to tell you man it's fucking nature what you are is a man who likes chicks and that's

both jimmy and myself both afflicted with this terrible disease it is terrible it's rough crazy i've had it since i was you know pretty young pretty it came about came about pretty young and it hasn't lit up yet. I'll tell you what. I don't know. The lack of arguments that I do when I have my dick in a woman's mouth. I'm a puppy. I'm very agreeable. What a curse.

Cursed. Forced him to do things against his will. What a spell. Forced. Against his will. Yeah. No, please don't well okay yeah yeah what are we talking about that's exactly i did the exact right no karen i don't know well okay okay okay

well all right so another guy mike monroy he's a former carnival worker that's terrific he's a trustworthy cat he said that he left marin about a year ago about a year during all this shit this is later on and he said that he also had an affair with marlene oh my god but could not give the time frame he said that last spring he and this is before all this he and marlene quote made plans to kill mr olive and they went so far as to buy a telescopic sight to shoot the father from a distance without the gun just the well they that they got that first yeah i think they had the optics first you just need a rifle and then they got the scope i think is that word but they actually got a scope to make this shit work wow so yeah another friend here or actually this guy here monroy said

that he had second thoughts that he started thinking quote do i love her enough to kill for the answer is no yeah no then it packed up and moved up to humboldt and i forgot all about it that's what he did he followed the carnival out and he was gone another friend 20 year old guy named tom mccarter uh he by the way jesus christ they when the paper's talking to him after all this stuff goes down he was in jail after having escaped from the california youth authority so he's a winner he said he and marlene shared the satanic religion together that's why they were friends. And he said, quote, the religion to him means that you get what you can here and now. That's what he said.

It's a very 70s interpretation of the whole thing. That's his greed, friend. He said Marlene asked this guy, quote, do you know anyone who kills people? But he told her he just didn't. He was fresh out. I don't know anybody who kills people? But he told her he just didn't. He was fresh out. I don't know anybody who kills people. No. So she apparently told other people she considered herself a high priestess, as a matter of fact.

She was up in command. Yes. And she told people she could command her lover, Chuck, to do anything she wanted. This is what she told her friends. Deanna Krieger, who was 17 when this went on here, she dropped, she's a dropout from Terralinda. She said, wow,

this is wild. She said that she was a close friend of them, and she said that Marlene spoke of herself as a high priestess with power over Chuck. She carried a tarot card symbolizing her dominance over him. She'd take it out and he would act like he was under a spell

like the Undertaker and the Urn back in the 90s. So this is I'm going to read a couple of this is from a newspaper and this is about a 17 year old girl. Quote, the buxom witness 17 year old girl is testifying in the newspaper they describe her as Buxom.

This big-tittied bitch. There's another one later on that's even more mind-blowing. Said that Chuck allowed her to carve her initials M.O. in his back with a knife. She carved her. She branded him. She also required Riley to perform acts on command twice in the presence of Deanna Krieger she said she was present when Chuck stole articles of clothing from women's stores after Marlene selected the things she wanted by the way it's harder for men to steal shit from women's stores

because we kind of stand out in the middle of a fucking women's clothing store right especially if you're a big heavy set guy what are you walking around picking up fucking size four women's clothing store right especially if you're a big heavy set guy what are you walking around picking up fucking size four women's clothing obviously it's not for you he's got an arm full of size four wandering around they're like hey where'd all those clothes go that you had a minute ago i put them back no if you if you walk into a woman's clothing store everyone that works there will come up to you because they know you need help yeah you don't know unless you go like oh no no i got this and start picking out shit in your size otherwise they know you need help yeah you don't know unless you go like oh no no i got this and start picking out shit in your size otherwise they know you need help and you have no idea what you're doing so you'll take all the help you can get though she'd be he'd be surrounded

by salespeople this is crazy and if you know what you're getting and you and you know your own size and you're getting all your own size in a women's store those clerks can't be more friendly with you they love oh yeah yeah yeah yeah you're gonna, yeah. Either way, you're getting attention. You're going to buy a bunch of shit. Yeah. You're in there. If you're not into browse. Right.

You know, you're into buying. You're a party. You're buying, man. So this Krieger, Deanna Krieger, also said that Chuck would buy cocaine and other drugs for Marlene to take on dates with other young men. for Marlene to take on dates with other young men. So all these guys she was banging was while he was with her, and she would say, get me coke so I can go take it and go fuck this guy. And he'd go, okay, and he'd do it.

And then he'd steal shit for her. Chuck, man. Jesus Christ, Chuck. Chuck needs a buddy. Chuck needs a wingman who goes, dude, fuck this. What is wrong with you, bro? Dude, just jerk off, man. This chick's a sk a skank man like all fucked up at three in the morning she's a skank bro she's fucking other guys and makes you buy drugs for her man fuck that shit bro hell no

fuck my sister man she'll be thrilled about it come Come on, man. I'll hook you up. There's a chick that works at the Sonic with me, bro. Come on, man. I'll hook you up. What's up? I'll tell you her favorite color. She'll be thrilled about it. It's going to be good. Then you just act like you guessed it.

Oh, yeah. Holy shit. So that's what was going on also deanna krieger said that olive or marlene would bite chuck on the shoulder until he was black and blue and would pinch and slap him as well i don't know in a playful way or just in a in a fucking mean way yeah also she had chuck take photographs nude photographs of her to submit to men's magazines. Yeah. This is a 16-year-old girl.

That's illegal. If you had men's magazines in 1975, you could have been whacking it to this junior in high school. Be careful out there. It was a dangerous world in 75. That's not something you want to be. It's not something you'd want, really. Also, Deanna described Marlene's green eyes as, quote, weird. Okay, that's not a – actions are whatever, but her eyes were weird is not a –

A recessive gene is not weird. That's just – yeah. My mother has green eyes. It's not weird. It's fine. Jesus Christ. It's a recessive gene that you popped up. Yeah.

So she said that Chuck was deeply in love with Marlene, but that Marlene didn't love Chuck back. Obviously. And she said, Deanna Krieger said, it's my personal opinion that she uses him. That's it. Another girl who knew Marlene for about a year and a half said that Marlene constantly talked about how much she hated her parents. said that she, Marlene, constantly talked about how much she hated her parents. Not only that, wished they were dead and often talked openly about killing them, saying on different occasions that she was going to poison them,

blow them up in their car, and, quote, push them off a cliff while inside the car. Okay. She's going to push them off, oh, put them in the car and push the car off the cliff. And to push them off a cliff. Okay, so she's doing some real chicken shit from a distance murdering. Oh, yeah. Blow them up. Poison them. She said this friend said she didn't take Marlene seriously, even though one time Marlene asked this person, hey, I might need you to be an alibi witness as I'm thinking about killing my parents.

And she was like, get out of here. Yeah, you're crazy. Finally, Chuck also, she asked Chuck the name of a friend's brother because she kept asking Chuck, do you know somebody? Do you know somebody? And Chuck said, yeah, my friend's brother. He might do it.

And he gave her this name because he didn't think that she'd be able to find him or get a hold of him, and she did. Oh, God. She found the guy, and he said he'd think about it. Oh, my. So now he's like, oh, shit. Now, later on, Chuck will be hypnotized multiple times.

Let's find out what he says under hypnosis here. Oh, boy. He said that Marlene said, quote, they're saying, what's going on? You're talking to Marlene. Hypnosis is like putting you back in the time. So it's present tense shit he's going to say. Quote, she's talking about putting some kind of pills in the food, in some soup. I want to get around it somehow, but I have to do it because she says so.

I can't avoid it. She told me I had to do it. That's all we talk about. She asked me on the phone, where do I hit my mom to kill her? How hard do I hit her? So that's what he says is going on in June of 1975. Then Saturday, June 24th, 1975 comes around and it's a bad day, just a bad day. They get in a huge argument. Marlene and Naomi do. Huge argument. And during this, Naomi called her a piece of trash, called her daughter a gutter tramp. Yeah.

And said, not only are you a gutter tramp, it makes sense because your natural mother was a whore. It's just like your mom. Yep. You're a little skank and you come from whore stock is what she said yeah it's clearly genetic it's genetic whoritude that's what it is it happens i guess here oh boy you know how that goes i don't think naomi's a geneticist but no we'll find out so marlene shouted back i hate you and her mother said well that's fine because you're a gutter trash tramp whore with a whore mom yeah okay that's not me the other mom right so then this was followed

by you're a bitch and you should shut the fuck up and then they go back and forth like that screaming and yelling into a point where it's never even gotten before this is beyond hiling her beyond this this is very childish and that there's no fixing this apart from separating them. They need, yeah, she needs to get out of this house. So she instead marches over to the phone and calls Chuck and says,

quote, get your gun. We've got to kill this bitch today. Oh God, it's on. So Marlene picks out according to all what we imagine and what we think happened here, um,

a hammer. And then there's the gun that he's got. So there's a hammer and a gun. So she drops a number of Darvon capsules into her mother's soup, but her mother, again, didn't like the way it tasted and only had a couple of bites and then went and took a nap. So Jim also goes to his bedroom and falls asleep. Now Marlene at this point said once her father

went to take a nap, she picked up a claw hammer and went in the room and stood there. She says later on, quote, I stood over him. I started to bring the hammer down and I pulled back and I tried it again and pulled back and then she just couldn't do it

and that made her even angrier, she said. She was super pissed that she couldn't do it. I'm incapable of... I mean, fuck, I just want to smash this guy's skull in, and I can't do it. So she had Chuck hide near the house, because he's not allowed in the house, until Jim left the house.

So Jim leaves the house in the family car with Marlene, apparently apparently at this point so they're gone it's just naomi asleep in the house and it's an empty house so chuck walks in he finds the claw hammer that marlene set aside for him she told him where it was and there he goes so let's say what he this is what he said under hypnosis. He describes it present tense quote. I'm terrified to walk in the house. It's been so long since I've been there. Mr. Olive was going to kill me. If he saw me enter that house again, I stood there for a couple of minutes. It was so quiet. I walked down by the bathroom and there's a door and it was closed. It was

Marlene's bedroom.omi lay asleep on the bed quote i just hit her i don't remember anything after that he said he struck her repeatedly in the forehead with the hammer wow he said the final blow the hammer lodged in her skull and he couldn't get it out for heaven's sake this is a little bit gross right here everybody if you if you're real queasy you might want to skip ahead about uh one one of those 30s you might want to hit on your app there quote i had to touch her and take the hammer out it was really hard it wouldn't come loose oh my god deep i just about broke the hammer blood blood no no it's burning my hand up my left hand blood there's blood everywhere i shot out it shot out when i pulled the hammer out all over my hand fire i have to do something to get the blood off i can't stand it it's burning my hand then i saw the hem of a dress

and i picked it up and wiped my hands on it she wouldn't die she wouldn't die at all please god let her die. I just couldn't see her living like that. It hurt so much to see that, so much. So he picked up a steak knife and plunged it into her chest. Oh, my. She still wouldn't die.

Oh, my. So he gets a pillow, and he's trying to smother her with a pillow. He's on top of her face, trying to smother her with a pillow he's on top of her face trying to smother with a pillow giant big broken forehead with her i mean she's she's just breathing at this point there's no brain activity whatever so at that point he hears a car pull up oh no yes and so it's marlene and jim yeah they come in marlene pauses in the doorway to let her father walk in first.

Yeah. Okay. She apparently told her father, quote, don't go in there. You're going to die. Oh. He just giggled and walked in. He thought she was just saying something like, mom's being crazy. Don't go in there.

You're going to die. And he was like, yeah, welcome to the jungle, you're gonna die whatever yeah just a casual warning yeah that's what it is so um yeah he just walked in so here's what chuck says about what happened quote i see mr olive he is walking toward me He looks in the room and sees Mrs. Olive. He screams. He runs over toward her. Oh my God, Naomi. Oh my God.

I can hear the screaming echoing in my head. Just echoing. And then, no, no. He sees me. He sees me. I'm going to kill you, you bastard. I'm going to kill you. There's a knife right there in the nightstand by the bed.

Don't pick it up. No, no. He's picking up the knife. He comes toward me i shoot him i shot him i shot him i just pulled the trigger never even took the gun out of the bag he didn't even know i had it just shot him he spun around facing me again and i shot him three more times before he hit the floor i just couldn't stop pulling the trigger shot through a bag that was in yeah like a paper bag okay he just reached in and popped it out the

paper bag so wow um then chuck walked into the living room and sat there after he did all this killed them both they're both dead the parents walks in sits down and stares at the fireplace this man has used three different weapons to murder two people. Three. Yeah, three. No, four. Steak knife, pillow, gun, hammer. I don't have a pillow. Four. Yeah, he's done the full array here. So he's staring at the fireplace, and Marlene sits next to him and says,

Everything's all right, Chuck. Everything's all right. Don't worry. It's all all right. You've done great, Chuck. Briggs are pretty fucking far from all right right now. This is fucked we are. This is fucked up as it gets.

We're a long bus ride away from all right. This is far from all right. So after that, they sit there for a minute. Then they go into Jim and Naomi's bed and they have sex. What? Oh, yeah. They go have sex in their bed. Because both these murders didn't happen on their bed they were the other one was on the sewing in the sewing room bed

naomi was killed so yeah they do that uh then they go rifle through the bodies rifle the possessions here yeah yeah they you know empty jim's pockets remove the gold ring the wedding ring from his hand and also he's got a school ring. They take that. They take credit cards and a checkbook from mom's purse there as well and take off her watch and rings. Oh, boy. You know, strip them down. Jim still wears a high school ring, huh?

Still got a high school ring. A college class ring. A jade school ring. It's probably college. It's probably college. Yeah, I imagine college. So then they decide that, well, we we gotta clean this place up a little bit there's fucking blood everywhere this is wild so they clean up the whole place they scrub the place down yeah and in the 70s

you can kind of get away with that there's you know they couldn't they just come in with a fucking handheld blacklight and see what was going on so a little bit different and uh so they end up going to the mall not to buy like supplies to clean shit up just to walk around the mall because that's what you do when you're a teenager you go to the mall yeah it's a saturday night jimmy what are we else we had plans to go to the fucking mall let's go get an orange julius suzy and tommy are meeting us by the wetzels pretzels and if we're not there they're gonna go to footlocker without us and i won't have it look weird if we're not in the arcade listen if we don't get to chess king by fucking 7 30 this whole night's over so play

some double dragon wow jesus back then they'd be going to play pong for christ's sake yeah there's some fucking pinball pinball yeah so they they shop they chat with friends they hang just have a normal night at the mall like kids did back then then they go back to chuck's house oh yeah because hers is gross where he lives with his parents yeah it's gonna be gross by now so after they just visit briefly there then they go to a friend's house where they fucking smoke weed and do coke. And then Marlene, everybody witnesses Marlene insisting that they go fuck in the friend's bathroom as well. So he's got to be tired. All this murdering and fucking is a lot for one night.

And walking around the mall too. He's a fat guy. I didn't hear eating at all. So then what do they do? Chuck's hungry at this point. So then they go out to eat at a Chinese restaurant. Oh, boy. I'm in the mood for Chinese.

I've plunged a hammer into a woman's fucking brain. The last thing I want to see after I've seen brains is lo mein. I have no interest in that. I'm not looking at it. Right? Yeah. Orange chicken. No.

Fuck no. Chinese is not the answer for this day. It's just not. I don't want to see that sauce that you dip the wontons in, for Christ's sake. None of it. I don't want sweet and sour chicken. I want none of this shit. I want no part of it.

So, yeah. So then they go out to a movie. What'd they see? They don't know. Just to the movies. A film, they said. Just live in life. Just live in life.

Then they go back to the olive household so now they got to figure out what to do with the bodies but they had a nice night first so they drag them outside and they put put them in the back of the family car in the back of the family truckster here so they do that they then drive to an isolated rural area. It's a place off North San Pedro Road in a remote country on the eastern tip of Marin County that extends into San Pablo Bay. So it's a very out there, as out there as they could find in that area, right? So they go there. This is a place where hunters would barbecue poached deer.

Oh. If you didn't have, yeah, this is where you'd do whatever. Very fresh deer. Very fresh deer here. They call it China camp. Real Asian flair tonight these two have, huh? They really do. I know where to go.

Did they take the Chinese food there to eat it to? Yeah. So they're going to China camp. So I guess it's there. It's a favorite spot also not only for hunters to burn poached deer but for teens to go get shit-faced. It's a teen party zone. They said it's a grassy clearing and the ground is littered with beer cans. You bet.

It's the outskirts of town where we all go. That's it. And cigarette butts. So they find there, the place where they barbecue poached deer, is a concrete and brick circular 16 foot in diameter fire pit. Yeah. Big fire pit. No, it's a big circle with an open top just to make a big bonfire. But it's meant to last.

Concrete and brick. So they place Naomi and Jim. Side by side. In the concrete fire pit. They cover the bodies. With a big stack of branches. Then empty a big thing of gas over them. A gas can over them.

And then they light a match. And burn them. They burn them. She doesn't know. No, they burn them up. So once the fires go in a while, they then go back to the Olive household to sleep. You know, it's been a very long day. A lot of activity today.

They get up at 6 a.m., though, to make sure the fire did its work. Sure. Now, when they get there, they realize that Naomi's almost completely incinerated but jim's torso and head remain pretty much intact just burnt to shit yeah you can certainly see it's a human being though yeah you know so they make a larger fire which then reduces everything to ash for the most part as we'll find out and then they hurry home because chuck didn't want his parents

to know that he was out all night. Oh. He wanted to get in before they woke up. Yeah, get there before they start making phone calls. I think that's the least of your problems, Chuck Curfew. I think you're so. I don't want her to know I didn't go to bed till late. You know how that is.

So Sunday morning, 9.49 a.m., a firefighter named vic torini he ends up at the state park china camp state park and a giant sees a giant blaze going on so he pulls up it's 9 49 a.m the firemen find bones in there and they go ah fucking hunters burning deer assholes huh and then also in the ashes what they don't see are some gold pieces that could possibly be dental crowns and other identifying pieces definitely nothing to do with a deer no so but it was so common for this to happen with the deer out here that this guy didn't suspect anything nefarious and starts shoveling the ashes over a low the low wall in the surrounding area and then and then uh pouring water all over to extinguish all the embers.

Just scattering bodies. Just crime, just evidence, crime scene. Just let me put water on it so it's really, no, we don't want it to have any scientific value whatsoever. He couldn't have done more to help them than if they hired him, for Christ's sake. He looks real callous at this point. If cops saw that and recognized a bone as human he'd look like the worst person on earth just wait a few days yeah i have to like this is what they should have

done scatter the ashes water it all down then no one would have noticed but instead what marlene does now they should shut the fuck up wait for that that money, take off, go to Ecuador, and never be heard from again, right? What does she do? She tells everybody. Everybody. Everybody. She tells all of her friends that Chuck hit her mother on the head with a hammer while she was sleeping in the sewing room of her home. I mean, details, Jimmy, not just we killed my parents and upset.

I don't know. She's been telling everyone she's going to do it for so long. I guess it's like, I'm not full of shit. See, you guys all made fun of me. She also said that her father was shot in the back by Chuck and that she admitted to wrapping her parents' bodies in sheets and waiting until dark. And then once it was dark, they took the bodies to the fire pits at China Camp where they were burned using wooden gasoline. And she said that they're going to wait until everything you know clears out they're pronounced dead and all that then they're going to collect the insurance

money and move to ecuador together oh that's the plan so darlene krieger said that marlene told her about the slayings two days after they took place i mean it was very quick afterwards she said it was you know right away she said that she told she was told of going to the Olive home that day with Marlene and being freaked out by weird vibes coming from the sewing with a quarter pound of what they describe as high-grade marijuana. QP. Sounds like a great night. Four ounces? Yeah. And then when they were all hanging out, they admitted participating in the murders, and they nodded and said, yeah.

Chuck would nod and say, yeah, when Marlene described how it went down. So a week goes by. Nobody hears from them. Nobody cares. Wow. Then Jim's business partner, Colonel Phil Royce, he said, Jim's never gone for a long time. He hasn't been at work in a week. What the hell's going on?

He's called. Nobody answers. Yeah. So he's like, this is wild. They were supposed to go to Sacramento for a business conference. They just opened a firm called another general business services branch there. And he said Marlene was up there, and she said her parents weren't home. She said they'd been on a camping trip and had just come home. I told her, have your father call me when he comes in, and she said he would, but then he never called,

and I was never able to reach anybody at the house again. So he waited until Saturday, June 28th, and then he said, okay, something's wrong, and he called the cops and said maybe if you do a welfare welfare check it's not like him to abandon his business for a week and not call anybody it's you know yes he's been fired and demoted from a lot of places but not for a lack of trying not for no call no show right honestly the business has been doing much better in the last week since he's been gone i'm not gonna lie to lie to you, but still, that doesn't mean I want him dead. I don't want you to find him, but I also don't want you to find him dead.

That's the thing. So they go back. The cops go to the home that day, the Olive House, and no one's there. They knock. No one answers. Okay, they leave. Then they go back again that evening, and Marlene answers the door. She's there all by herself and uh the one

cop said the daughter said she hadn't seen her parents for more than a week she said she'd been uh they she said that she'd been gone for three days on a camping trip so that she came back and they were gone so she hadn't seen them since three days before that uh now she's at a she's a juvenile at home without supervision so they take her to police headquarters. Yeah, because you can't do that. Yeah, so they talk to her from midnight to around 4 or 5 a.m. Okay. Okay, here.

So they said she told a number of different stories about where she was and who she'd been with. They said that she was put into the custody of county mental health officials for psychiatric evaluation because they thought she was a little weird. Yeah. They- She tried to fuck everybody. Yeah, she tried to fuck all the guys

who were putting her in a straitjacket. There was a bunch of people also, they started getting information. The cops started getting calls that were anonymous, calls from people saying they're young and they have a friend and they're a friend of a couple or a friend of this girl and they know that something happened to this girl's parents. They're getting all these cryptic calls. This one young friend said she had been to the barbecue pit and knew that Marlene and Chuck had been there too. Oh.

So then the police and a psychiatrist interrogate Marlene for 14 hours. Whoa. Which you would not be able to interrogate a teenager for 14 hours nowadays. Since Brendan Dassey, I think that's the last one you can really get away with like that. Because even that, in the end, they were like, come on, you can't fucking do that. He just wanted to see WrestleMania. That's a little much. That's a long time, yeah.

The general rule is that what I've heard from homicide detectives is once you go past about six, you better have a goddamn good reason and some food. And then once you go past about eight, you're pretty much in the time where it could get thrown out at that point because, you know, it could be just coercion. It's just crazy shit that he's just going to say to get the fuck out of here. Yeah, then that's when people's mental, yeah, their brains start working different after that and they start saying things in desperation. So they said that they interrogated her for 14 hours where she told multiple contradictory versions of what happened to her parents. Yeah. They continued to press the whole thing. And finally, one of the other witnesses during all of this said that i know where the

barbecue pit is i'll take you there okay so they go there and they find bone fragments clothing stockings a dress that had been burned all this shit that the firemen weren't looking at so the bones are taken to an anthropologist and they identify them as human at least two pieces of human remains that they're going to trace back to the olives, obviously. The press in this area freaks out. Of course. They call the barbecue murders everywhere.

That's what they're called to this day. If you look up the barbecue murders, it has a Wikipedia page. It's its own thing. Wow. Of all the people who've been burned in the world, how many we've talked about a bunch these are the barbecue murders these are the ones yeah specifically and it's only two and that sounds callous but generally when you say the barbecue murders there'd be a hundred like oh yeah shoveling bodies yeah like a forklift

coming and pouring fucking piles of bodies in there. Yeah. This is wild. So July 1st, 1975, Chuck is at the Mill Valley Waterbed Company where he works. And he is. He's been working there since the olives have disappeared. He's been coming in, doing his regular shifts, acting normal. So they arrest him at 4 p.m. on July 1st. Sure. They go in there, arrest him.

They talk to chuck they find out through some other people that chuck had sold his 22 caliber revolver to a friend a few months ago then borrowed it back the morning of june 21st and returned it on june 23rd not suspicious at all not suspicious just need this for about three days and i'll bring it right back we'll pop in squirrels i'll be right back yeah so the friend obviously gives the gun to the cops and there you go they also he says that they've been planning to murder the olives for some time in order to prevent them from keeping him and marlene apart that's his version of it on the day of the killings he said that marlene phoned him up said get your gun fucking chucky get your gun let's go it was pre-arranged she'd lure her father from the house get him out of there so he could go

in and kill mom with the hammer that she placed there and then shoot him when he came home jim when he came home and that he got his gun loaded it with bullets that his friend bought for him went in the sewing room we told you bludgeoned and couldn't get the hammer out and all that disgusting part there so then um when mr olive arrives and discovers the body of his wife that's when he shoots him in the back and then they tidy up they fuck they clean they take off take them burn them with gas burn them again blah blah blah he says that he was quote high on drugs when he committed all the murders and did all this stuff yeah he said that he admitted discussing the murders with deanna krieger we told you about and he also admitted cashing personal checks belonging to one of the olives several days after the killings which is

a dead giveaway yeah that you've killed them so if they've ever written you checks before no now they're writing them yeah you're not even allowed in their house you think they're writing you a check for something please so then they find in his house letters from marlene in shuck's house one letter to him from marlene said quote of course i hope you'll wait till i'm 17 to marry me or kill my parents that's romantic right there. Now that's Shakespeare. You know? Yeah. Romeo and Juliet.

I don't want to hear any of that bullshit. That's wrong. I hope you, of course, I hope you'll wait till I'm 17 to marry me or, or kill my parents. That's lovely. It's,

you can, you can see that like with a tiara on a princess saying that. A Montague thing to do. Oh oh it's a real capulet problem so another letter to him found in uh found in her room this was in marlene's room that she hadn't i guess given to him yet quote if i could kill my parents i wonder if susan could come live with me i don't know who sue that's one of. A third letter, which was found in Marlene's room and dated January 1974, was addressed to Mike, who's one of the other guys that we talked about when she was fucking. And that's a former boyfriend. And it read, quote, I was thinking about what you said about that man who would take care of my mom.

I think we should talk it over together, you and I. I'd be worried about what would happen after she died, but whatever did wouldn't keep me away from you. Yeah. This is, you know, obviously when her and Chuck are deep into their relationship. Wild horses and murdering my mom can't keep me away. Can't keep, wild, wild horses. Couldn't keep me from killing my mom.

Un-fucking-believable. keep me from killing my mom un-fucking-believable then after that um she several other people who are like oh yeah that's all she would talk about kill my mom kill my mom i got fucking old like i stopped hanging out with her because it was like well jesus kill her already if you're gonna fucking do it this is ridiculous light the fucking joint or kill your mom for christ's sake yeah what the fuck bro light the bong or fucking move on and go kill these motherfuckers i don't care anymore so then the cops come out and they make a statement they said the father was shot he said the gun was borrowed by a friend and he makes his whole statement saying that um then afterwards uh the mother and father were slain in the sewing room of their comfortable home a bed on which mrs olive was accustomed to taking naps in the sewing room

was missing they just took the whole bed and burned that too wow yeah rather than you know worry about sheets and cutting pieces out of mattresses whole bed's gone now throw it on top of the truckster yep throw it right on there like like uh aunt what's her name yeah so she said uh he said mr olive was shot with a.22. We have the revolver. We don't know what weapon was used on Mrs. Olive. She was bludgeoned. And positively, those are the bones of the Olives. Marlene at one point said, quote, I opened up my big mouth one time too many. Everything exploded.

Everything that was building up inside of me for years. One too many. One too many. So she said she was just saying how sad she was and chuck must have taken it out of context and wanted to kill her parents you know it's crazy i told too many persons one too many people she appears in court and marlene now denies all participation and everything i didn't know it was gonna happen yeah love my parents i don't know what happened i'm such a fan i'm a big fan she said that, quote, frozen in place with fear when she heard Chuck's shots.

Now, the judge, though, in her initial court appearance ruled that, quote, Marlene Olive did encourage, instigate, aid, abet, and act as an accomplice in the homicides of her parents. More than likely. The evidence says that, you know, enough for court anyway. So there's a psych workup for chuck here and uh this is a social evaluation by a correctional counselor at san quentin prison early in uh the time where he's put away here now this is obviously valuable with a guy like him because you got to go what the hell are you thinking because we've given him 100 other options of what to do here yeah this didn't have to do this uh they describe him as quote very quiet mild-mannered shy and withdrawn

type of person who never did have a lot of close friends but always craved for close interpersonal relationships with others quite possibly he just never got beyond the immature and overly dependent pre-adolescent stage of emotional development. He exhibited a low image of himself and appeared to be an inadequate type of person who was unable to cope with, cope with the demands of living in the complex and urbane society, socially and emotionally isolated and quite unsophisticated. Yeah. The kid gets what he wants and he'd do anything for it.

That's what it is. Yeah. He described a lot of 18 year old kids who haven't figured it out yeah yeah people that got uh that figured out how to talk a girl into doing nice things for them way too late way too yeah they never figured out how to do that or they did they they thought they should have earlier but didn't some people are like i don't know never i wasn't i was doing other things and you know didn't care i know a lot of people like that. So they said quite possibly he just never got over beyond the immature and poorly, overly dependent pre-adolescent stage of emotional development, low image of himself. He felt inferior due to his overweight condition and big stature.

by the family's move to Arkansas for 15 months when he was in grade school, after which he was not able to resume contact with the old crowd and began to associate with younger peers. Mm-hmm. People who would hang out with him. Rob childhood. Yep. He began to smoke marijuana just before starting seventh grade and found a sense of status in giving or selling drugs to high school students

as well as in having a motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah. He's trying to figure out what will make me cool. Right. Does weed in my hand make me cool? If I sit on this, am I cool? How am I cool?

Yeah. And the more against the grain you are, that's how you feel cool. And we're not letting him off the fucking hook at all here because no matter how much you like pussy and all that, you shouldn't be able to repeatedly plunge a hammer into somebody's forehead and then suffocate them and stab them. And you shouldn't be able to do that. So this is definitely another problem. And it's not like Marlene didn't have a shit life, too, because she was lied to, didn't know she was adopted. Her mother's a fucking wackadoo alcoholic schizophrenic maniac so lying to a kid that's adopted is one good way to to almost guarantee that they will fucking lash out to piss them off and they'll certainly wonder what are they hiding from me what are my real parents like then they really want to know um quote he did not date girls and had no girlfriend

or sexual intercourse until he was 19 and met Marlene Olive. By his description of their relationship, he was passive, insecure, and greatly dependent upon her, and she took the domineering, aggressive, and influential role of leadership. Everybody says that. They said that she would, you know, they said we watched her control him with her eyes. But that's almost like hypnosis, like you both have to volunteer for that. You know what I mean? You have to volunteer for that you know what i mean you have to want that to be controlled by somebody you have to want to control and he has

to want to be controlled yep she sought him out for sex not just daily but even more than once a day oh well i mean she's just fun then that's fine yeah as long as she wasn't 16 that'd be great so problem is she's 16 and this is weird. He now reflects back and sees that she forced him to remain childlike, dependent upon her approval, wanting to always please her while she could be the adult and dominate his emotions and behavior.

I guess, I don't know, because that's what her mom does, I suppose. Reportedly, this love affair had a very forcefully direct influence in motivating their decision and actions in committing these homicides. The counselor noted that the psychodynamics of the relationship of the subject and his girlfriend slash crime partner seem to be pivotal in evaluating this case, that these

homicides are not in keeping with his overall social background, and that his short-lived criminal career does not suggest an underlying and basic antisocial or criminal mind or orientation. The subject of guilty of these murders, that subject is guilty of these murders is undeniable. Also, subject is an inadequate person that goes without question. He does get his high school diploma while in jail. Oh, good. Good job, Chuck. Good job.

Let's see if he'll ever use that in his life or if he's going to go away forever. So Chuck, in his defense here, he says, all that, all those confessions, never mind all that. Okay? I was just crazy. That was talking. One was out through hypnosis. You can't count that. You know what I mean?

So they claimed apparently that he had initially saying i just wanted to protect marlene that's why i was saying i did it i felt bad but now that i know she's saying i did it too fuck that you know so he denied any complicity now in the murder of mrs olive i didn't kill naomi but i killed mr olive in self-defense self-defense okay you know i killed him in self-defense and that he only participated in the activities to conceal the crimes because, you know, they took money and stuff and he was forced to. So another psychiatrist testifies. Basically, this is a weird fucking guy is what he testifies. He said that this is fucking weird. While in the county jail, the psychiatrist talked to him and he testified that Chuck calmly discussed the murders of both of these people while eating his supper.

Like real conversational. Just having a little chat while eating some mashed potatoes. Yeah. This is Dr. Gerald Hill said that Chuck exhibited inappropriate behavior during the interview at the jail some weeks ago and also said he thought he was exhibiting the same type of demeanor in the courtroom when he's in court today when he's testifying. As a psychiatrist, he said one of three persons who hypnotized Riley, he testified that Riley or Chuck turned and grinned and winked at friends in the courtroom. Tons of kids have come to this court, by the way. It's full of teenagers, the whole court.

They said that yesterday his eyes continuously sought out those of a pretty blonde teenage girl. And at least once he exchanged notes with her through a bailiff. He is trolling for pussy while he's on a fucking double murder trial. By the way, this is a death penalty case. Unbelievable. And he's out here winking at folks. He's out here like, what's happening, baby? Hey, hey, homeboy, yo.

Hey, why don't you drop this note off with that sweet little blonde thing in the back there and hang out for a sec. See if she writes something back. I'll let that shawty for me, would you? What the fuck, man? So, yeah, I'm blown away by that. He first told two listeners after his arrest that he bludgeoned Mrs. Olive to death and then shot her husband in the home. Later, he said he did not kill the mother and shot the father in self-defense. He said that he is stuck to this latter story under hypnosis with the other more hypnosis that he had.

Not the first one, but after that. And the judge has yet to rule whether the jury can hear the tapes of the uh these sessions here so the doctor one of the hypnotists told the court that he chatted with chuck during the meal period at jail and he said he found quote an absence of appropriate feelings that could be the name of this episode an absence of appropriate feelings because that is all over this fucking shit. Holy shit. So there's that.

And he said that in the youth under the circumstances, and he characterized Chuck as having a quote, hysterical personality, as well as being highly hypnotizable, suggestive and passive. You can get him to do or say whatever you want. Pretty much. It's a malleable fella.

That's right. He is a, he's a big chunk of Play-Doh, this guy. You betcha. You can just put him however you want. Silly putty. So they said the issue of whether a person can lie under hypnosis has been the subject of a lot of back and forth, obviously. The guy here, the doctor, said that there's an extremely high possibility that an extremely hypnotizable person like Riley would tell the truth under hypnosis from what they've seen in the past. He also says that Chuck was the type

of person who might confess to crimes he did not do. Also, that's also under his personality type. Another hypnotist here who runs the one man hypnosis institute in Mill Valley said he's been asked to hypnotize Chuck to find out the truth. He's been asked by the defense attorney to do that. He said there was only one discrepancy in Riley's story under hypnosis, and that had to do with dragging the bodies to the car. The prosecution says that they dragged him out there, so that kind of goes with their thing.

Now, they do have the tape. They're going to play some of these tapes in court on a tape played in court here um chuck maintained under deep hypnosis that he didn't kill his girlfriend's mother and that she killed naomi and the hypnosis asked what's the secret you've been keeping to yourself and he says quote i didn't kill the mother i think she killed the mother she did it i didn't want her to do it that's what he said okay on the tape chuck repeated under hypnosis both versions he gave of the killings though on the same tape he went back and forth so i think he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear at the time he might think they want to hear that which person is here and which story do they want i'll give that story

yes and sometimes it's the same person but he might think i don't know if he's under hypnosis he forgot what he said 10 minutes ago so now he thinks that they want something else so he'll say it that way i don't know i don't know if he's just suggestible but i certainly think he uh probably did the killing though because you gotta have some some force and some strength to drive that hammer through the forehead multiple times or just straight up rage which she's capable of too. She does have a lot of rage we know that she's got a lot so

we'll find out so they said that one hypnotist here said in the taped interview quote turn your mind back to that Saturday who killed when James and Naomi were killed in their home what did you say to Mrs. Olive?

He asked. And he said, I never talked to Mrs. Olive. She was dead. Later on, he said that he was instructed to imagine what Marlene would tell you. And he said,

quote, my dad was waiting for me in the car. I killed my mother. I hit her with the hammer was the answer. Then more questions questions chuck told the hypnotist that marlene returned home and said oh my god naomi i'm gonna kill you you bastard and then said quote and then he said quote i shot him because he said oh my god naomi i'm gonna kill you you bastard which is what he said before asked what he had uh what he had told the police about

the killings on the day of the arrest, he repeated the original confession, which he gave to a guy named Sergeant Bart Stinson, which is hilarious. It's very close to Bart Simpson. I wanted to call him Bart Simpson so bad. It almost came out. Yeah. Which had also been played to the jury in that version.

He said, I just did what Marlene told me to do. I took the hammer, the hammer stuck in her head, all that stuff there. So throughout the taped interview, this next one, not the first one, Chuck says, what are you going to tell? Or they asked Chuck, what are you going to tell me? What are you going to tell me is going to bring you relief?

And he was asking stuff like that. So the prosecution maintains that he was dominated by Marlene, but he did it all himself. That's what he's saying. So that's also the story he told the police. So that's kind of what the prosecution is going with. The defense psychiatrists have testified that it's seven men, five women on the jury, by the way, that Chuck suffers from such a mental defect that Marlene had such a hold on him that he may have made a false confession. He had hard penis syndrome. defect that Marlene had such a hold on him that he may have made a false confession. Oh, no. He had hard penis syndrome.

It's very rare and awfully debilitating. Well, listen, if you don't do anything while this is here, it's going to hurt for quite some time. It's going to be rough on you. Deanna Krieger test. A lot of pressure. It's going to pop. It's going to pop.

Deanna Krieger testifies yeah and she says that she believes marlene killed her mother um earlier in grand jury testimony she believed that chuck killed killed the mother now she says she thinks it's yeah um she said that despite being an emotional oh they talk about yeah they went over to the house and seeing the blood stains remember she was the one that went over with the quarter pound of weed. And she said, despite being in an emotional state after seeing bloodstains in the sewing room, Tiana Krieger said

she spent the evening of June 23rd smoking several joints with Marlene and Chuck and later had sexual relations with Riley when the three of them went to the bed. They had a threesome. Oh my God. I wonder why this guy will kill for.

Let's smoke some joints and I'll fuck my friend. What is happening over here? This is wild. Just delivering him so much poon. Oh, my God. Jesus. I guess. Wow.

What a wild. These people are teenagers. These kids. This is a wild style life. If you're, you know, divorced twice and trying to get your mojo back. So anyway, Miss Krieger also, she was one of the people who called the cops on them, too. The jurors take a field trip to the house there, which is always weird. They inspect the house, which is now unoccupied at the moment.

And they said that it appeared to disturb Chuck to return to the house where this all happened here. He walked calmly off the bus, his hands in his pockets. He looked pleasantly at the cameraman because there's news people all over there. And the prosecutor showed them all around. The judge is there. They viewed the kitchen where dirty dishes left by Chuck and Marlene are still there. Yeah. They saw Marlene's bedroom with an unmade bed and piles of discarded clothing.

They viewed the bedroom in which Naomi was murdered, the sewing room. And they had, oh, I guess they rearranged it later to look like a sewing room. So people wouldn't go, where's the bed? Oh. they moved shit around yeah put the sewing machine over the blood stain yeah yeah i guess it had a sewing machine in it but it was a spare bedroom and they were like no no no this is just a sewing room there's no bed in here now yeah they looked down the hallway where chuck said he had to hide when james returned home jim returned home to find his wife dead and all of that so they said

this was an attempt to cast doubt on the second story that led to you know him saying that that marlene did it and he came over and just killed the father they're trying to the prosecution's trying to pass cast some kind of doubt over that shit so they said that uh jurors were quiet one remarked that the house seems smaller than he had imagined from looking at a floor plan displayed in the court. One of the issues there were there were two exits from the house when Jim Olive returned home. In the second version of what happened, he said he thought he was trapped when the father came home through the front door. Meanwhile, there was two more back doors. You could have got out.

So Chuck has to testify. He has to. There's no doubt. He's got to be more convincing than any of these people so day one he admits under oath that he killed jim but denies killing naomi yeah he said the first question i'm going to ask you did you kill naomi olive and he said no he said did you kill james olive he said yes. There you go. So he went on to describe his whole life and his meeting Marlene and how he was having sex all the time with her and all this type of shit. He said that he believes Marlene to be a witch and that his eyes have such power over him that if she were in the courtroom right now, he would not be able to give the same testimony he's giving. He wouldn't be able to say that I didn't kill. I'd have to say I killed Naomi because that's how much control she has.

Her eyes would just, yeah, overpower me with their witchiness. So day two, he testifies on the stand for multiple days. Oh, my God, this poor bastard. He admitted he lied on the stand about another matter but stuck to his other shit he said that he definitely didn't kill the mother that he's sure of so he is accused of it all though um they said that they called him today the heavy-eyed youth yawning frequently from further cross-examination said that the way they spent the weeks after the week after the death was marlene's idea he testified he and marlene went out to nightclubs, out to dinner and had daily sexual relations. He also worked at a waterbed firm taking drugs and getting almost no sleep.

So earlier, the judge had heard all this thing and he said that he told basically Chuck, the judge asked him a question and one of his answers was, quote, Marlene made me do it. Uh huh. So he said that he told Marlene after the deaths that he would take the blame is what he said in court. That's what he said. He said on the morning of the murder, he took up, dropped some acid as one does. Yeah. And then in response to get your gun, he went out to get the gun at a Fairfax service station. I guess he met his friend.

He couldn't find the person who owned the gun so he picked up his own gun at a friend's house, the one he had sold, and then carried it to the house in a paper bag. He got there, hid in some bushes. Marlene motioned from the kitchen window not to come in yet. He heard the car leaving, he said, and he saw

Jim Olive in it. So he went in the house and found mrs olive dead hammer was lodged in her skull yeah uh he said earlier that marlene had asked him how hard do you have to hit someone to kill them so yeah he said that he wanted to when he heard the front door opening he was afraid to get caught in the house so he hid behind a chest and he says jim came in saw his dead wife screamed oh screamed oh my god then he said i'm gonna kill you when he saw chuck so chuck said i had nothing else to do he was gonna kill me so he said he fired it four times he said the next thing i knew he was lying

on the floor dead and marlene said i had followed her into the house and said i'm sorry i had to plan it that way chuck said i knew it was the only way you would do it that's what marlene told him like sorry i had to have my dad bum rush you but that's the only way you would do it i know i had to kill the woman and force you to kill him that's what yeah that's how because i couldn't do it myself that's what he's saying here so jesus christ oh fuck man another witness testifies that she met Olive. She met Jim and his daughter about 2 p.m. at the Northgate Shopping Center, which goes that's that backs up his first statement. Chuck admitted that he lied when he described how he happened to turn a shotgun into an illegal weapon before he was arrested with the weapon in his trunk last May. So he had altered a shotgun. He said he sawed off the shotgun because the barrel split after he fired it, not to make it cool. He's later produced the gun and piece that had been cut off

showing the jury that it wasn't defective. And he said, yeah, I guess I did when they asked him if he lied about it. Oh, so they said it's split. No, they said, is the rest of your testimony lies? And he said, no, it's not. He said that, yes, he did. He used to sell cocaine and sell weed and amounts worth up to $150. And he did not consider the drug sales illegal. Okay. I'm glad that you think that way. So day three, he says, after a dream in his county jail cell, he began to doubt that he killed his girlfriend's mother. That's how it happened.

At first, he thought he did because the whole thing happened so fast, but then he had a dream and he said, oh, yeah, no, I don't think I did it. Yeah, that's what he says. He's telling a prosecutor in cross-examination this bullshit. So that's what he's doing. He said, I told her I would take the blame. Now, in the closing, the prosecutors say the evidence shows that he calmly and coolly planned and carried out the murders of his girlfriend's parents says that uh you know the evidence of the coldness of the defendant

he said that uh that he was that the uh they were missing the bones and teeth from the fire pit where some of the charred remains were found you know should give the real picture of how gross this was riley first confessed to the crimes but later said he had remembered what actually happened after a blackout. Give me a fucking break. They're saying he said on the witness stand that he said under hypnosis he did not kill Olive. He did not kill Mrs. Olive and that he only shot Mr. Olive. But then he said that they planned it out and, you know, they were going to have them declared dead and they had a plan.

Then he said, quote, someone removed the remaining teeth from the burning bodies, from the burned bodies. That we don't have. It's common knowledge that corpses can be identified through dental charts. He also noticed the absence of any large bones or joints in the fire pit. They think they stuck around and got that shit out. The defense contention that Chuck is totally innocent and was set up by Marlene has not been borne out, the prosecutor said. And further, he said the theory that advanced that Chuck was, quote, bewitched by her. The prosecutor called it almost ridiculous.

I think it's almost hilarious and absolutely ridiculous. They said the only evidence that Marlene was a high priestess, as she has told everyone, is that she told fortunes with tarot cards. So they said he used a stolen gun to kill Olive. That was further evidence of premeditation, since a stolen weapon couldn't be traced if left at the scene of the crime. So furthermore, they said that the evidence shows that he was friendly cool and calm during the week after the murders he was able to lie and lie convincingly to police officers and job and friends and all this type of shit so the verdict comes around again courtroom is mostly high school kids there's some people there's a 20 year old named tim sullivan who said we just happen to

walk in on this trial we're observing the reactions and watching the judges as a socializing agent. It's a school project. The effects he has on the opposing attorneys and how he treats witnesses. The judge is being very formal and very strict. So, wow. It's a murder case, man. A 17-year-old from Terralalinda high school said nobody really talks about the trial at school this is bad publicity for our people our age sure uh one of the another teenager

said he was waiting in line to get in because quote my mother told me i should see how the court works and my father's a member of the jury go see what your father's doing go i said go where your father is that's what that is your dad's sitting on a murder trial why don't you go sit down there and watch that shit go listen to the details to the awfulness which is this wow so it's two chart two counts of murder they're hoping that he'll only be found guilty on one and yeah the murder of the father and not other they said used no guilty guilty of both both guilty sentencing comes around not you sir yet so january 26 1976 death penalty on the table wow the judge says the court found that uh chuck's testimony about shooting mr olive in self-defense

implausible and noted that chuck and marlene had strong motives to commit the crimes and Marlene's frequently expressed hatred for her parents and in Chuck's anxiety to please her, the Olive's efforts to prevent Marlene from seeing Chuck and the personal monetary gain through the death of her parents. And because she was the sole beneficiary, intended to finance your trip to South America with your fuck buddy there. You, sir, may fuck off death penalty they give him wow death penalty chuck's gonna die for this they're gonna take chuck to the chair

how old is he 20 at this point oh my so as he's led away he gave a smile to his parents and he made a peace sign at him and then he did a thumbs up. All good. Okay. Now Marlene here, she's 16 and she gets an attorney, Terrence Hallinan who has been promised half her inheritance to

defend her in juvenile court. First of all to make it in juvenile court rather than adult court. Remember the Buxamy? They called the other girl Bux hot chick the big 17 year old in this one they call this is a 16 year old the newspaper talks about marlene and says quote the bosomy teenager sat between two prob you're noticing her tits this ripe child wasn't me the grass on the field play ball teenager uh sitting there like what the fuck are you doing don't don't comment on a 16 year old tits in the newspaper the bush that's wild child wow that is wild The bosomy teenager sat between two probation officers in probate court here, being held in the courtroom. Let's see.

They appointed a 21-year-old juvenile hall volunteer, somebody who volunteered at juvie, Carolyn Schallman of San Rafael as guardian of the estate while this all goes on okay uh halanin the lawyer who's making it all or not because they might get something he might get nothing they think the estate's worth fifty thousand dollars so he might get 25 grand he might get who gots here so if she's found responsible she can't inherit the money and he doesn't get dick so he uh he comes out in the courtroom here. She is requesting a $75 a month allowance from her dead parents' estate in court. $75. They tell her no, not until we figure this out.

There's a witness in these proceedings that gets held in contempt and then gets it dropped. A 16-year-old girl who didn't want to answer questions about Marlene. How were her tits? See, they must have been terrible i was gonna say no mention of her ass but the tits is better this sloppy pig got held i mean they said they said she gives a great blow job but nothing about her tits that's fucking great so she gave uh vague answers to the questions yeah and she said he asked me if marlene hated her parents because they were strict and i said doesn't everybody that got her helped and held in contempt really yeah that girl marlene tells her story she says on the morning of june 21st she argued with her mother she does this in court now she

said she argued with her mother and then her boyfriend here called several times and and heard this going on in the background later that day marlene said her father left the house to pay her father left the house to pay to pay a marijuana debt that she owed really so dad didn't even say here's money go pay for that weed that you owe he said i'll go drop this off for you which is it's the water bill for your apartment yeah this is crazy yeah don't worry i'll get your car payment this month unbelievable when they returned that's when she said she went to the kitchen for a glass of orange juice and walked into and that's when uh that's when she said she went to the kitchen for a glass of orange juice and walked into. And that's when that's when Jim walked into the sewing room.

Her dad, where Naomi often napped. And she said that dad said, oh, my God, Naomi, what's happened to you? And she heard her father sob and then gunshots rang out. She said that Chuck emerged from the sewing room here. In one hand, he had a pistol. In the other, he had a blood-spattered fucking childhood frame picture of Marlene that he grabbed in there. Wow. And so she said he had just clubbed, beaten his mother to death, and then shot her dad.

She said she was so scared that she said, are going to kill me too uh-huh and then he didn't answer but he began savagely beating her okay just started beating the shit out of her now in the next noticeable at the mall i was gonna say in the next six hours when the next fucking more than that 18 hours where they're constantly hanging out with people no one said there was a bruise on or a mark, a scratch, nothing on anybody. I mean, the white pages were handy, so. Jesus. She said, quote, he was just a madman.

His eyes were bulging. His face was red. He had blood on his shirt and his hands looked gigantic. Well, his hands looked gigantic. What does that mean? Jesus. She said she was going to call the police, but Riley, Chuck kept beating her. Kept beating her.

Then held her basically prisoner for the next week and change. Just held prisoner by him. I couldn't do anything. She was always in his company. Meanwhile, he went to work every day, all day. He worked eight hours a day. At the waterbed store while he was exhausted. Exactly, while he's exhausted.

She said she was always in the company of him or when he went to work, three of his friends who, like Chuck, also dealt drugs. They were very scary. Very scary. That night, after visiting these friends and eating dinner at a Chinese restaurant, they went back to the house where now Chuck says he wrapped the bodies up, dragged one of them out of the sewing room and asked her to help out. But she could only pull it a few feet. So he finished the job of loading them into the station wagon. They drove to the fire pit where he doused them with gasoline and lit them up with all this wood. She said she tried to call the police from a restaurant three days later but was stopped by one of Riley's friends who came and put the fucking clicker down on it said no way sweetheart not happening during that week riley

chuck made her cash checks for him and at his request she wrote a note saying hello this is naomi olive my husband's out of town i'm sending my daughter downtown to cash a check he made me write that and then i went in and cashed a check and took money from it. He made me do that. Deanna Krieger's back. Deanna Krieger. She's a prosecution witness. She repeats all of her testimony and then adds a different one more detail that wasn't in the other trial.

She says that Marlene told her that Marlene removed the wedding rings from the bodies of her parents before burning them. Filthy. Which looks terrible. If you're standing over a corpse taking jewelry off it, that looks bad. You're a scumbag. So they decide that she will be sentenced with the California Youth Authority not as an adult here.

They sentence her to you, young lady, may fuck off a period of at most five years because it's till you're 21 at the most okay but more like four years and then you can be paroled after like two and a half and then we'll we'll we'll do this again when you're 21 no no no no and then you're free then you're free then you're free you could get out when you're 18 and a half and be free and clear forever on parole or whatever but free holy and shuck it's a death penalty oh my god but i mean i think he did all the killing if i'm being honest i think he did the hammer i think he did all that shit but i think two and a half years is a little light for for her so the judge told her, quote, when you are released from custody, my advice

is to change your name, move to another part of the country where people do not know about your crime and start all over again. So this also will block her from inheriting the estate as well, so the lawyer gets nothing.

1978, the Supreme Court deems the death penalty statute unconstitutional, and Shuck's death sentence is commuted to two concurrent life sentences with the possibility of parole after seven years. Oh, so it's up. Almost here. So while he's there, he's in behavioral programs. He earned his GED and a bachelor degree in something, too.

programs uh he earned his ged and a bachelor degree in something too marlene is set to be released in i think this is uh 1978 i think it's right before christmas 78 she is held in the california youth authority one night she is supposed to be doing her laundry and um she by the way one police captain from san rafael didn't know she was about to get out. He said, had we known she was about to be paroled, we would have strenuously objected to it. Two years is hardly long enough to serve for such a horrendous crime. But the thing is, she's doing laundry one night and she fucking takes off. She hops an eight-foot fence and escapes. Oh, that's great. She's getting out in like two weeks.

Yeah, that's great. How wild is that? She's a wild one. So, holy shit. So, yeah, they's great. She's getting out in like two weeks. Yeah, that's great. She does this. How wild is that? She's a wild one. So, holy shit. So, yeah, they do that. They say that an administrative assistant in the parole department says, we can't give any details. We can't even say that we know her. Nothing.

It's about 10 p.m. She disappears, climbed over a fence, and sped off in a waiting car. That's great. She's going to get so much time. Well, let's find out. Yeah. in a waiting car. That's great.

She's going to get so much time. Well, let's find out. Yeah. Months shy of her release from here, which is wild, she leaves and flees to New York City. Wow. Goes all the way across the country in 1978 New York City where she, quote, this is from a court document, quote, found work as a prostitute. Of course she did.

It's not found work as a prostitute. There's not a job. There's not a job. There's not a monster. It's pretty easy. I'm like, oh, maybe she said, nope, nope, found work as a prostitute. That's not finding work. And then got into drugs hardcore as well, of course. She's also calling people while she's on the run.

Remember Carolyn Shellman, the volunteer from the juvie there? She's calling her all the time. What's she saying to her she called her 6 15 in the morning while she was still asleep and uh she said quote i hope you're awake and ready for this because i know you're not going to like it is how marlene started so she said minutes later after the phone call two san rafael police officers came over and were warning anybody that knew her about penalties for aiding and abetting a fugitive. Okay. Okay.

So Marlene was gone. So this woman said that she didn't know what to do here. She felt bad about the whole thing, which is, I don't know why. She said, why would she blow it? She was getting out so soon. She was going to be out before Christmas. Oh, my God god this is terrible she marlene got top grades at the youth authority ventura youth authorities ventura detention center yeah where she earned her high school diploma and her associates associates

degree she'd been tentatively accepted into ucla upon her release oh my god holy shit do you put that on your college application? They said she'd been rebellious and hostile when she first got there. Even slashed her wrists a couple times. But then she stabilized. She's doing so great. She said, quote, my God, do you even realize what you're giving up? On the phone, she said this to Marlene.

We have to talk this out. I want to hear from you in person. Why are you leaving? And then she was already gone, though, was the thing. Bl got hold on i got a blow job i got another guy on the other line about a blow job i'll get back to you pull the lou brown i gotta go i'm sucking dick i gotta go so he said that uh her she said her escape makes sense to me knowing her as well as i do i don't agree with it but i can understand why she felt driven to go through with this and that every other option was closed for her except for the in two fucking weeks serving the rest of her time she's almost done she also said there was a

girl that she met in there that she was very close friends with named mary tucky masterson tucky's her nickname who had been released a couple weeks before that on probation this woman goes on to say the two had been inseparable. They would go to any lengths for each other. They're like puppy and fucking, what's her name on Love After Lockup? Yeah, I see Pencil Tucky in Orange is the New Black. Yep, that's a bad teeth. They trusted each other completely.

They desperately wanted to be together again again so the decision was to escape because of that she said that the girl uh was being also she said marlene told her that she was being sexually harassed by young men in the los angeles institution sure yeah so she wanted to get out of there so they said that she spent this woman said i spent 10 months working for her she was angry and vulnerable and then she turned into this great kid and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Uh, she said, I know she loved her father very much. The shock of the, of his death traumatized her completely. I think she's been sucked into a set of circumstances. She had no control over. She's sucking something.

I had to put that in there. So anyway, they catch her. She's arrested. Um, they arrest her. Eventually she's returned to California to finish out her sentence. Was she in the city?

She's in New York City. Yeah. Fucking prostitute. Yeah, that's what she was. So she got picked up for something, and they eventually figured out who she was. So 1980, she's released. Free as a bird. Done.

21 and done. Wow. Out. They can't add time to it huh because she's a juvenile because they tried her as a juvenile so she's out 1981 she visits chuck in jail stop it no shit they've that's fucking wild she goes with her with her lawyer visits chuck in jail at one point during their visit chuck asked ar, what you thinking about? Make it never ended.

Yeah. What you want for dinner tonight? I don't know. What do you want? What are you thinking about? What you thinking about? She responded, quote, I was just thinking about what had gone down. We just lost our marbles, didn't we?

Lost our marbles. Lost our marbles? You think understatement of the fucking year. Kaved your mom's head in with a fucking hammer. That's fucking wild. So during the 80s, you think she cleans up her act, gets married, has two kids. She is a school nurse at this point right now. Get out of here.

No, not at all. She's arrested many, many, many times in the 1980s. Yeah. Forgery charges, drug-related charges, prostitution. She serves jail jail time she moved to la changed her name several times was arrested at least on seven at least seven different occasions on a variety of crimes including forgery drugs fraud and theft yeah um yeah she'd be changed her name all the time her arrest record continued in hollywood in the valley with more charges forgery all this type of shit.

She twice served one year stints in jail, once for forgery, once for violating parole by using drugs. In 86, she was arrested in Los Angeles for orchestrating a large counterfeiting and forgery ring that she was in charge of. 1991, she's arrested three different times on forgery-related charges, each time providing false identities to authorities. So she kept getting out. Yes. They didn't think that she was being wanted for five other things. She posted bail as a different person and was released. And by the time the fingerprint checks got back because it was computers too late, you know, not then done.

So in 1992, the Los Angeles Times describes her as the, quote, queen of the trashers. What is that? Woman who can basically pick through your garbage and steal your identity. Oh, wow. That's what she does. She's arrested for possession of stolen credit cards, counterfeit IDs, and forged checks. They believe her to be one of the leaders of a large ring of thieves and the main supplier of phony checks and credentials to the group she's the one who goes and gets all this shit

they said that she um she can take a voided check or bank statement called from a trash dumpster and turn it into a lucrative enterprise wow she is a an enterprising genius of crime of yeah she is a fucking arch criminal yeah she absolutely is she's like a batman villain they call her a cut and paste artist she's an expert at taking stolen or thrown out checks counterfeiting them creates false identities for passing them and all that kind of thing she was arrested believed to have been the leaders of 20 thieves in this group that she's one of the leaders of. She is. They were banks, small businesses, check cashing

companies, office equipment suppliers, supermarkets, mom and pop stores, anybody that took checks. They also said in the network of motel rooms that she used, they found typewriters, color copiers, portrait cameras, laminating machines, and computers that helped her perfect the art of making

false IDs and phony checks what oh yeah she's a fucking she's into this Frank Abagnale yeah she's not just robbing people and selling their credit card on the street this is a whole separate thing LA police detective John Metcalf said there was evidence that she had even attempted to forge California new driver's licenses that were designed to be counterfeit proof. She's even do that. So they said, we will never ever figure out how much damage she's done. They said she had just a quote. She had many,

many, many IDs. She's always able to bail out before they knew who she was and she'd go right back to it. She was arrested with a quote spread what phony check artists call a package or wallet containing a complete set of bogus identification documents, along with legit or counterfeit credit cards and checks. You want to be this person? Here you go.

Yeah, that's wild. Unless you're working for the CIA, that's pretty wild. But yeah, they arrested her. She had ID cards, more than a thousand other pieces of identification. It's a lot. And they said she was just starting to work on a new california driver's license holy shit they said you rarely find this kind of organization but she goes way above and beyond the norm is what the cop said i would say so holy fucking shit now riley in prison very quickly he He has a few different issues. Ninety four unsanitary living quarters in prison of demotion or demerit.

Two thousand storing items in a prescription refill back rather than prescribed medicine. He says it was coffee that he was taking to work with and he put it in a prescription bottle. He also gets a bachelor's of science degree in business admin from Chapman College. And he does all of that. He has vocational drafting with A-plus grades. And his instructor said he's employable in that field. He works at the prison shoe factory, does all this shit. He gets married twice, as we'll talk about.

Marries one lady, and that only lasts a year. Then he marries another woman when he's 31. They're married for 10 years. She dies of breast cancer. Oh, no. So is he going to ever get paroled here? Let's find out. That's a great question.

In 82, his first hearing, a psychiatrist said that he had no mental disorder and that his violent potential at present appears no more than average. Just as crazy as everybody else. just as dangerous as anybody else they said denied we heard what he did 85 they again found no medical disorder no more than an average risk of violence denied 87 uh the council for the psychiatric council for the diagnostic unit concluded that he had limited insight and evaded responsibility for his life crime. Also said he had narcissistic, antisocial, and histrionic personality traits, but no personality disorder. And they said that the testing was favorable in terms of violence proneness. Also said that he had mixed substance abuse and institutional remission.

In other words, he doesn't do it because he's in jail. So there you go. That's 87, 89. They said again that his violence potential outside of a controlled setting is estimated to be less than average now. Oh, he's chilling out. Chilling out. 1990. This one, this doctor agreed with previous evaluations, and he then said that he should be given strong consideration for parole as soon as the board finds it's appropriate.

And they said, not this year. Okay. I'll try again. 93. They said that they found him candid, openly discussing his crimes and taking full responsibility and demonstrating remorse for the first time. They said that his psychoactive substance abuse is in full remission. And they conclude that his level of dangerousness is far less than that of the average inmate. And that his progress for positive reentry into society is in a positive direction.

Yeah. She's getting into the trashers already. And still denied. Still fuck off. Wow. In 1995, they find no mental illness. They said that he should be able to hold on to his present gains if he's able to maintain positive

relationships with his family members and remain drug free. But you're going to do it in prison. Denied. 1997, he's evaluated again here. He still says that Marlene had already hit her mother in the head with the hammer and that's what he still says.

And they say, well, you're going to still stay in prison. Go fuck off, even though he's been productive in a level of programming for many years, they said. 1997, the correctional counselor said, considering the commitment offense, prior minimal arrest record, and excellent prison adjustment, I feel the petitioner would pose a low to unpredictable degree of threat if released at this time. He's done an exceptional job in maintaining a positive attitude while in a structured environment. In the past 19 years, I've supervised him as a correctional officer, program supervisor

and correctional sergeant. I feel, though, as if there was such a thing as a model inmate, he would have to be at the top of the list. This is our guy. This is the guy. So he's the guy. Fucking let him out. And they went, not quite.

Not yet. He's got a rabbi on his side now. Oh, God. He's been participating in the 12-step program in the Jewish chapel. And the rabbi says, he's the best guy we have. Great guy. Great guy. 2002, low to moderate risk, future risk of future violence here.

Okay. They said, we don't like those odds. You're staying in jail. 2004. How much of a guy has he got to be? Oh, my God. They said, low risk of future violence if free in the community. Considering the commitment offense, the same thing, basically.

The rabbi comes back. They bring in his computer drafting guy, said he's employable in that field. It sounds realistic. He's high levels of education, strong work ethic, good work skills, and support of his family.

He should be just fine out there. And they said, that's good. Let's let him percolate on it a few more years. Fuck off. Back in jail. 2008. That's the thing. Fuck off. Back in jail. 2008. Did you just shot somebody? That's the thing.

Or possibly cave someone's head in with a fucking hammer. Again, low risk in 2008. They said that in jail, he was a peacemaker. He's able to maintain an even keel, stay focused, avoid jumping to conclusions. And they said that his greatest weakness may be his tendency to quote feel too much empathy and have an over sentiment now he's too loving he's too loving he might be just too empathetic here yeah um a very low range compared to anybody else he's in the way below range for you know possible re-offenders he's doing just fine the rabbi said he's known him

for 10 years he's a wonderful man you know he just can't wait to circumcise him. Everything's going great. And they say, let's sit on it a little more, fucker. 2010. Finally, they said they asked him to talk about the crime more. It's been 25 years. And he said, quote, it won't make any difference. My memory is tainted when i think about it i think of how unnecessary it was had i been stronger had more backbone the first time her hatred came up i should have gotten out i just accept my responsibility for it the nuances of who did what i was there i could have prevented the no it doesn't matter the nuances he said i could have prevented this months earlier um I could have prevented this months earlier.

I didn't because my relationship with my girlfriend was so important to me at the time. I had immersed myself in the marijuana subculture and don't be a snitch. He said that he said whatever he said would sound like he's trying to blame others and not take responsibility. And he says, I take responsibility. I would do anything if I could undo what I did. And they said, well, tell you what, let's let you go sit in prison for a while longer and you can see if that'll do it. Board commissioner said that the killings were execution style plan calculated and carried out. So fuck you. Basically, 2011, the rabbi writes a big, long letter for him to the board in support of him rabbi moskowitz is his name he said please let this fucking guy out put all of his psych work ups he's so nice they said that uh let's see alleged sobriety in a controlled amount of time

blah blah oh but he hasn't he's been doing great normally it's normally it's a we're leery but not with this guy he's perfect he has some 17 family and personal friends all emphasizing the maturity and responsibility he's gained over the years and the support he would have from people if granted parole. And they said, I don't think so. It's everything we've asked for, but no, I'm not doing it. Not yet. Not yet. So he appeals it to court. He actually appeals to no parole.

And the verdict comes in. That's cruel and unusual punishment. Well, I mean, it was originally the death penalty. So they said that they found him not, that he had not sufficiently explored and addressed all the reasons for his crime and for his substance abuse at that time. You can kind of go 1975. That's why. Are you kidding me? Have you seen the 70s come on come on driving around with fog hat playing what do you want from me it's so easy he's yeah he said that uh they said there's no evidence of

substance abuse causing a problem and the they're saying the parole board failed to consider his age at the time that of the act here so the court decides here that Chuck's right. He wins his appeal. He wins the appeal. He wins the appeal. But two days later, this is amazing. This is in 2015, February 6th, 2015. Governor Jerry Brown reverses the parole board's decision and says, nope, back in the fucking

jail with you. Not letting you out like what they used to do with all the manson family all the time december 3rd 2015 the california court of appeals for the first district vacates the reversal and five days later chuck is actually granted parole on december 8th 2015 what is that he did 30 years 30 he did a hard 30 yeah he did 30 no so that's not bad there no shit that is 40 that's 40 years that is 40 years 40 fucking years i'm like 40 seems like too much he did 40 years that man's 60 right yeah he's 60 oh i think i think if you're gonna parole anybody that's the guy someone who did it when a teenager

when he had you know did it for pussy and weed yeah he had more than a feeling playing on the radio we can't blame him for things that happen when more than a feeling is on yeah no i'm talking boston oh isn't that it no oh that one that's i can't this feeling. That's from the 60s. That's definitely a different song. So anyway, that, everybody, is Terralinda, California. The barbecue murders. Did she went to prison for long? She kept getting in and out. We don't know what happened to her.

I don't know what happened to her because she keeps changing her name and her identity. She could have moved somewhere else, had a new identity. We don't know what happened. She's dead by now, right? Don't know. Either way, both of them are walking around out there possibly. Both of these two. I don't want, they should, one of the things should be you two,

if you're ever seen in the same place together, we get to shoot both of you in the fucking head. Immediately. No trial. Boom, boom. You have to go by your real names for the rest of your lives because we have to be able to keep track of each of you. Holy shit.

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which is basically what does it take to make a person turn into an evil fucking lunatic very little a pair of sunglasses is really all it takes we find out it's crazy so the trust of a professor we will talk about it a lot there that is uh patreon.com slash crime and sports and also you're going to get a shout out when does that happen right goddamn now jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people who would never cave in our foreheads with a hammer. This week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett, who traveled all the way from fucking Canada to come see us again. Thank you, Jordan.

It's so nice to see you. I think she's seen us like 15 times or something. It's like 12 at least. It's a dozen. It's a ridiculous number. Damn it, you're the best. Kyle Norwig in the UK. Thank you, Kyle.

You're a fucking wonderful man. Thank you very much. I appreciate you. You're a person. You're fucking terrific. Thank you, Kyle. You're a fucking wonderful man. Thank you very much. Or person. You're fucking terrific. Thank you. Other producers this week are Arnold Skoland, I think, the turkey leg drunk poly gobbled. Arnold Skoland's Bob Backlund's manager.

Oh, is it? That's evidently the worst manager. He threw in the towel. Right. He didn't do shit. He just sat there like a fat bowling ball. Drunk poly ate a turkey leg in Rocky, and that is donated by the turkey leg. Peyton Meadows, Fester Rat Scramble, Bob Infercock.

Oh, Bob Infercock, James. Bob Infercock. Right. Janice Hill, Matt Villanueva, Paul Villas, Basavius, Brandy Huntley. Dusty Frankenbush. Jordan Overcast. MP. Tina Schabel. Claire Brown. Krista Brumby.

Cody Minich. Monique. I don't know. Tane Sorensen-Adams. Brian Beasley. Sydney Jackson. Emily Borgi, I think. Angie Val.

Val, maybe. Fabian Ruiz. Reese. Reese. Harrison Parker. It's just Blake. Chris Kolemeyer. Kolemeyer? Yeah. And Kristen Kolemeyer donated twice. It's just Blake. Chris Kolemeyer. Kolemeyer?

Yeah. And Kristen Kolemeyer donated twice. Thank you so much. Oh, that's very nice. Thank you. Sarah Nicholosin. Nicholosin. Nicholosin. Polly Branham.

Nate with no last name. Sarah Prefers. Prefers, maybe. It might be Prefers. Who do you prefer? Tell us. Matt Smith. Drellin Lippin.

Drellin Lippin. Drellin Lippin. Lipan, maybe? Marianne would know the last name. Chili would know the last name. Matt Seroff. Anthony Purcell. TJ Schaub. Andy Massey.

Sean Charles. Booty Saxton. Morgan would know the last name. Catherine Risk. Emily Russell. Stacey Butte, or maybe Butt. It's probably Butte. Brendan Bockwitz.

Bockwitz. Luke Jockers. Addie. Addie Lancour. Hazel Tov. That might be Hazel Tov. Okami. Okami.

Ukima. Ukima Harris. Ukima. Nice job, Jimmy. Good job. Gerald Haggard. I got to talk it out sometimes. Caitlin Hofer. And I still probably get it wrong.

Aaron Haddow. Haddow. Jacob Towley. These are hard. They really are. Tow-lee. Toow-lee? Because you never fucking know how they pronounce this shit.

It's a set pronunciation. If you see a word, we've all agreed on it. Your last name, who the fuck knows? Every family could pronounce it differently. We have no idea. Teresa Nelson Lake. That could be wrong. A2 Brute.

That could be wrong. Marsha Mikos. Mikus? I don't know. Brandy with no last name. See what happens? Lilly with no last name, Grant Johnson, Lillian with no last name, Spencer Porter, Amy Doodle, Sean McLearn,

Kayla Burns, Sia Rising, Rebecca with no last name, Nikki Kisileff, Kai Saleff, Kisileff, Big Papa, no last name, Jordan Robinson, Noel Williamson, DK Fission, 24-7, good for you, DK, Melissa Baldwin, Andrea Hecht, Hecht Melissa Baldwin, Andrea Hecht, Brenda with no last name, Joshua Jeldon, Mike Wilber,

Joe with no last name, Brian Lewis, Genji Gordon, John Barker, David Muelnix, Muelneo, Yaha G. CME. All right. Nathan Patron, Nate Patron. Patron. James Steen. Christopher Snell. Alyssa Gorilla. What?

That may be Apple correcting that word. Maybe. Whatever your last name is, type it into Apple and see if it says Gorilla. J. Wesley Roberts Jr. Jennifer Mulvihill. Mulvihill. Allie Crean. What is it? Mount Mulvihill, Ali Crean, Jenny Sherman, Danny Hart, Paige Powell, Raul, Ruel, Nicholas Forch, Peyton with no last name, Darren Laybolt, Eloise Kay, Ralph Peer, Mule Hancock, Smitty't know what that is. Smitty G2430. Amanda Groening. Ryan with no last name.

Morgan Needs More Minnesota Cases, James. Rooney, that's her last name. Livin' Dead. Fern Barrel. Brittany Gass. Austin Grubb. Marie Lutz. Lulz.

Lutz. Shannon Jones. Michaela H. Nicole Wetzel. Haley Brummel. Samuel Ritchie, Bailey Bayless. No way. That's pretty rad still.

Courtney Nunn or Noni maybe. Carrie Henry. Crystal with no last name. Julian Lopez. Sarah Watson Ratke. Patreon 1-800-11. That feels like a prison number. Carol Huber.

Emily George. Melanie Alvarez. Daniel with no last number. Carol Huber. Emily George. Melanie Alvarez. Daniel with no last name. Ben Summers. Josh Fector. Hardly know her. Tiffany Freeze.

Amber Haig. Griggy. 409. Robin Kennard. Leslie Clepodlo. Austin Hatch. Andrea Loyette. Natalie Mix. Phillip Focus, Focus, Focus.

Focus, Phillip, you fucking asshole. Focus. Laura Conley, Clinton Apple, a pill maybe. Tracy Fisher, Noel Tully, Joe Tomasco, Jenny Saucy, Bernie Burner, Herna, Herna Noss, Herna Star, Doe Darter. It's not a word. I don't think it is Kim you almost made it

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