Small Town Murder - #450 - You Are... Not The Father - Deer Park, Washington

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

This week, in Deer Park, Washington, a complicated marriage leads to multiple divorces, and everyone seemingly going their own way. But when one party starts snooping on the other's online dating life, it's only a matter of time before violence happens. Brutal violence, complete with staging the body, in as embarrassing position possible. Is the family right, when they say an innocent person is in prison??Along the way, we find out that lavender is apparently not just for candles, that you should NEVER snoop on the online dating life of an ex, and that shaking your head, in a weird way, is not the way to make homicide detectives think you're innocent!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo!

Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder Express. We pack it in tight here, and it's a wild story tonight as well before we start just want to say tickets are on sale 2024 live shows dates are announced everything is on sale to the public get in there thank you they are going extremely fast wow faster than we expected any tickets to go so get in there and get those tickets. We're in 12 cities.

No more dates are coming. We put out like 20 shows a month. It's really hard to get out to do live shows. So 12 dates. Emphasis on shutupandgivememurder.com. That's it. If you want to find tickets, go to shutupandgivememurder.com.

If you want to find some other tickets, go to shutupandgivememurder.com. We got messages, people saying, go to shut up and give me murder dot com. We got messages, people saying, oh my god, why are your tickets $300? Our tickets are not $300. They're absolutely not and they never will be. So, no way. Unless we get the Rolling Stones to open for us or like some 80 year

old band where it's like, I can't believe they're still alive and we have to pay. Unless that happens, we're not doing like, yeah, oh, Bruce springsteen's opening for him that's that's interesting and billy joel they're gonna do a like just old men that are saying we're not doing it and billy idol will be sitting on the stage with us yeah he doesn't get to perform he just gets to but he's watching and people want to watch him watch yeah so we're going to be in san francisco sac, Phoenix, Austin, Kansas City, Oklahoma City.

We are going to be in Nashville, Minneapolis, and Milwaukee, and Nashville, and Durham, and Tarrytown, right by New York City there, and Boston as well, 12 cities. Come see us. I don't know. We're excited about it. I can't wait to see you. I don't know if we said Oklahoma City, but there too. Kansas City.

All right. Good deal. So shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that. Patreon this week. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. $5 a month or above. You get the access to everything we ever put out. Bonus wise.

Hundreds of back episodes. New ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder this week. They're going to come out Christmas weekend. And we have families. We're going to try to. we take it easy a little bit on christmas we're still putting out all the shows but patreon we're going to do one show this week and it's a crazy one we're going to do it on the garden want to talk about a alleged cult that's like a weird how about

a mix of uh hippies who want to live on a commune mixed with survivalist militia people put them in the same group and see how it comes out. And we have The Garden, and it's an HBO thing, and you can watch that. That's patreon.com slash crimeandsports, and Jimmy will mispronounce your name doing the shout-outs at the end of the regular show. So that's a lot of fun. We'll do that. That said, I think it's time, because we've got plenty of story here. Time to sit back. What do you say, everybody?

Let's clear the lungs. Arms to the sky, everyone? Let's clear the lungs. Yeah. Arms to the sky, everyone, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. What do you say, everybody? Let's go. Let's go on a trip.

We're going somewhere where we wish we could go for live shows this year the state because we always usually hit up seattle in the northwest and uh we just couldn't make it work with the dates and everything but we are going to washington but we're going to eastern washington over by spokane instead we're going to deer park washington yeah deer park like the water yes um it's in eastern washington 35 minutes to Spokane. So it's a suburb of Spokane, five hours to Seattle and even farther, seven hours to Port Angeles, which is our last episode here, which was Titanic Insanity, which was a crazy fun episode. Now, this is episode 450, by the way, which is what the fuck the milestone here. We'll get we'll do a bigger one. we get to 500, we'll go crazy.

But this is 450, pretty good. Population of this town, small town, 4,366 people. Not a lot. Not a lot of people there because Spokane's a decent-sized place. It is, yeah. Median household income here, 53,910. So under the national average a good bit because that's 69,000 So under the national average, a good bit, because that's $69,000 now, is the national average. Median home price here, though, $451,800.

Bit on the pricey side. My God. That's expensive to make $53,000 a year for the whole household and say, well, let's look at this $400,000 house, shall we? History of this town. The name, Deer Park, it's very complicated how it got its name oh railroad surveyors saw deer in the area is that right wow they never saw that anywhere else in the country they were surveying railroad everything would be called deer everything if that's how everyone named shit wyoming be full of buffalo just be possum this and

raccoon that nothing would be it'd all be named after forest animals look there's deer yeah so it was uh settled in 1889 around here and that's kind of when people started coming the standard lumber company sawmill was established here by will Short and George Crawford. They almost called him George. George Crawford over here to provide lumber needed to rebuild the nearby city of Spokane Falls, which is later Spokane. Apparently, yeah, there was a great fire in 1889. Spokane burned down. This place did it. Yeah, by 1900, 300 people lived here.

Is that right? That's it. Not many. did it yeah by 1900 300 people lived here is that right that's it not many the arcadia apple orchards company was established in 1906 and so they had a bunch of uh apple trees and all that kind of shit so yeah they put that where they had cleared all the trees for logging they planted apple trees there instead so reviews of this town they range range. Let me tell you something. Five stars. Here we go. Deer Park is the perfect small town.

Perfect. Five stars. Perfect. Yeah. Enjoy the scenery and parks. Deer everywhere, I'm sure. Yeah. Lots of shops and wonderful with a capital W for some reason.

Hometown restaurants. Great for families. Education is great. I don't know if they mean here or just a statement of they believe in education. Knowledge is key. I don't know. I don't know what they're trying to say. The more you know.

Four stars. Typical small town America. Ten minutes from the Spokane city limits. Beautiful evergreen trees cover the landscapes with snow covered mountain in view. Oh boy. We are only a few miles from the Canadian border and we have a lot of Canadian friends. All right.

So make that's, that's a positive. Make friends with Canadians is one of the pros for moving here. This place is, this is everybody. Their last sentence is fascinating it's amazing this one is completely fascinating three stars the fact that the thing that's fascinating is that it's three stars and not like negative five because hear me out three stars terrible absolutely terrible that's the first two sentences. Terrible. Absolutely terrible. The people here are very unwelcoming to outsiders and have very close-minded beliefs.

I do not at all recommend moving here. Three stars. Three stars. Middle of the road. Terrible. What would be, they burned my house down. They came to my house and burned it to the ground and told us to leave. Slaughtered my children in front of me.

Three stars. And then they tied my wife to a stake and set her ablaze also. Three stars. Three stars. Don't recommend. Don't recommend. Fascinating. One star here.

Deer Park is a small town just north of Spokane. So every review says it's definitely a small town. We know where it is. You get that. It's small town just north of spokane so every review says it's definitely a small town we'll say we know where it is you get that it's small town spokane the town used to be a great family-friendly area with plenty of activities and places to go recently the drug problem has gotten out of hand and the community feels unwelcoming oh no so that's how you got it maybe it's just high maybe it's deteriorating a little bit i'm not sure here so things to do in this town this is something to do i mean yeah if we saw a sign for this breaks would be squealing smoke coming off you know pulling over the annual

you pick lavender festival i i gotta do it myself you get to do it jimmy not you have to you get to don't you understand you pay extra for the experience it's like people in new york that go apple picking and they pay 60 for a fucking bag of apples that's like four dollars at the store yeah it's the same apples too they just pick them and then sell them at the store there's a reason it costs less if i go to a wrecking yard and take the fucking fuel pump off of the vehicle no it's a you pick wrecking yard for the privilege and experience of doing that we charge extra you get extra yeah that way you can take it off yourself and feel good about it bring your toes they say if you've only considered lavender as a scent for soaps and

perfume you're in for a treat you are mistaken mistaken. You are all fucked up, mister. Let me tell you something. Part of the Lamiaceae family, which includes plants like mint, sage, and thyme, lavender was often used medicinally in the past, as well as for pest control. I have heard that they use that in mixtures of pest control. Really? Yeah, like organic solutions today it's frequently distilled into essential oil and used in balms soap and perfumes wow

approximately 21 000 lavender and 41 varieties and a thousand lilacs live on our farm jesus it's a lot of fucking lilacs um they said lavender's been seen in heavy use in the kitchen, both as sweet and savory dishes. It can be steeped or added as flavor to beverages like lemonade or tea. I don't want lavender lemonade. Or incorporated into dish itself. The buds can add floral sweetness and confections. Hey, man, this is good buds here. Now we're talking.

You can overdose it to a lime. Yeah, yeah. while the stems are like a milder rosemary you gotta get them stems out of there chief that's the problem yeah seeds and stems no good oh man i'll tell you what if you pick a bundle and aren't sure where to start you can't go wrong with lavender shortbread thumbprint cookies what duh jesus christ what's a thumbprint cookie do i have to tell you about lavender thumbprint cookies i don't think so for the true lavender fanatics you can purchase the lavenders the lavender lovers package so you just you get to fucking the lavender is what that is right out

there in the flowers yeah for forty dollars online through fr, which includes a small bundle of lavender from the You Pick field, a lavender sachet, a cone or dish of lavender ice cream, one lavender beverage, and a Lavender Days t-shirt. Oh, and the t-shirt. And a t-shirt. I've been to Lavender Days. So everybody throwing their $40 out there right now. Let's talk about some murder. What do you say? I am weirded out by the Lavender Festival.

Who was doing that? They took it right down into sex, too. Yeah, that's what it felt like. Lavender. Lavender for lovers. I stayed in a hotel this last year while we were on the road that had a lavender pouch on the bed. And I threw that shit right in the trash. Get that off my bed.

What is this? Thanks for a sack of lawn clippings on my bed. I threw that shit right in the trash. Get that off my bed. What is this? Thanks for a sack of lawn clippings on my bed. I appreciate that. Thank you. Potpourri in my pillow. I don't need that. Yeah, that's no good. Just bush clippings.

Thanks. Thanks for the yard waste. That's great. The gardeners must love this. Yeah, keep your landscape outside. Let's talk about a lady first of all here. Okay. Let's talk about Shannon and it's C-h-a-n-i-n

for shannon oh uh denise with a c instead of an s going on conway is the last name regular spelling oh she's oh so these this is her whole name that's her fucked up names with conway shannon denise conway poor thing yeah she's that's and she's always correcting people nope not even nope Two fucked up names with Conway. Shannon Denise Conway. Poor thing. Yeah. She's always correcting people. Nope. Not even. Nope. I bet I know how to spell Denise. Bet you don't.

Just over and over. She's born in 1969. She is born in Anderson, Indiana. She graduated from Lake Mary High School in Lake Mary, Florida. So at some point, her family moved down to Florida there. From Indiana. Yeah, and then she attended Florida State University and is very upset about them not getting

into the national championship thing still. No, that's not true. She earned her Associate's of Arts degree in art therapy from Seminole State College. I don't know. Is that therapy for you or therapy for others? I don't know. Is that therapy for you or therapy for others? I don't know. Is that to make yourself feel better or to therapy through art?

I'm not sure how this works. And is it that Seminole State College? Is that different from FSU? I assume so. Yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be. Yeah, that's got to be a different thing. So I don't know.

Grad studies or something. Yeah, because it says she attended Florida State University. Yeah, she ended up somewhere else. I'm't know. Grad studies or something? Yeah, because it says she attended Florida State University. Oh, it doesn't say she graduated. Yeah, so she ended up somewhere else. I'm not sure. So she's a Mormon also. That says something. And if you look at, for some reason, I'm just going by sister wives here,

none of their names are spelled like you'd expect them to be. None of them are. Mormons do love to, and they love wild, like Talmadge. You ever heard of the name talmadge yeah yeah well that's like old school shit but they like to put like wise in places where people normally put an eye and things like that that's that's their jam it seems like but that is names like no that's based nothing on but sister wives so i mean that could be completely different we can't make the browns represent everybody because that's weird. I'm not trying to put them over you.

I got a lot of friends in Idaho, and the names that they have for children, it's crazy. One kid named Ruger, James. Jesus. Ruger? That's more of just redneck, though, isn't it, to name your kid after a gun? Probably. To name your kid after a gun is just redneck. Cash with a k

i don't know what the hell that is what are you a juggalo we're gonna make our kids make sure he's a juggalo cash with a k now you're a juggalo that's a juggalo for christ's sake that's no good yeah are you a juggalo or do you just like your grains in the morning so in 1990 she gets married she gets married to a man named clay starbuck which sounds made up that sounds like a 70s superhero like a bad movie clay starbuck in the year 5000 you know what i mean and he's like in a space suit one of the brady bunch kids said that that was their boyfriend from high school. It's Clay. That was Greg Brady's other stage name. Yeah.

Yeah. Johnny Bravo and Clay Starbuck. He had Johnny Bravo for pop shit and Clay Starbuck is like when Neil Diamond and the jazz singer went to like Texas to do a country thing and they cut to him in a beard singing Love on the Rock. Love on the Rocks. Ain't no surprise. Clay Starbuck. Cut to him in a beard singing Love on the Rock. Love on the Rocks. Ain't no surprise. Clay Starbucks. We just went off with a bunch of shit that was from before our time, which is great. A lot of people don't know what the fuck you just said.

Nope, none of it. It's before my time, the things we just said. You are Estelle Getty on Golden Girls right now. Good. But I'm not. Estelle Getty didn't say shit before she was born this is stuff i knew that was well before me so it's i'm not expecting people to know shit i knew when i was a kid this is shit i knew from when i was a kid that would be arrogant this is different so uh clay starbuck

she marries march of 2000 uh they get a divorce yeah so that lasts 10 years uh-huh the marriage all that coffee money all that now there's a bunch of kids there's gonna be five kids involved that we'll talk about she had five children well not five altogether yet because they get divorced in 2000 but four months later they get back together oh which is odd after marriage 10 years of marriage and then you get divorced it's weird to be like it only take four months to go back i could see like you know 20 years later or something if they've you know they've resolved their differences or whatever but or maybe even five years if you've like gotten past whatever the differences were and then you've also been in the dating world and seen what kind of piece of shit that is.

Five years? No. Five years is still dangerous. Like five years is still, I might plot against your life, so let's not spend time together. That's not good. If the divorce wasn't too contentious, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If it was one of those where everybody's sad about it, maybe, I'm not sure. But they get back together. Then in 2006 2006 they get married again oh so they take some i don't know what takes them six years to get married again they have five children together and we're already married for a decade so it seems like hey you know what let's just do that takes a little while to forgive a blow job i think yeah i think so they get remarried in alaska where clay is working on oil pipelines. Is that right?

Yeah, and she is like a stay-at-home mom. He's working the oil pipelines. They live in Alaska. Then they end up in the Washington area back again down here in the Deer Park area. And in July of 2010, they file for divorce again. Jesus Christ, you two. So together for 10 years, divorce divorce and then together for another 10 years like almost exactly and then divorced which is yeah pretty hilarious honestly married for four

though they can tolerate 10 years of each other and that's that they're normal people yeah i think that's what i think that's the threshold of relationships of uh of marriages mostly anyway after 10 years you either you're either okay with the bullshit that we have or you can't take it and you'd start over again. Yeah, when it's bad, that's when you really notice it at 10 years probably. This fucking asshole. 10 years. 10 years is all you get.

Do I decide to call this a waste or an investment? Do I stay or go? Yeah, how much do I have to pay this person? Yep, so that's a joke there. How much would it cost me to have to pay this person? So that's a joke there. How much would it cost me to stop talking to this person? So July 2010, that's the divorce thing. Now, she enrolls in a dental assistance program after filing for divorce. She's going to reinvent herself.

Yeah, she's got to make a living now, too, because she's been a stay-at-home mom, so she wants to get out and have a career. So they're officially divorced in july of 2010 or 2011 they file in 2010 divorced a year later they have five kids between them okay now she is awarded custody of the three youngest children which is two girls and a boy okay now clay is asked to pay child support and alimony because yeah that makes sense and uh it also included in this is a restraining order against clay in favor of her he's prohibited from quote disturbing her her peace or going on the grounds of her home or workplace. Yeah. Unless it's to pick the kids up or a prearranged thing.

Like he can't, he can't just show up on an unannounced at her house. Sure. Now there, one of their other sons is 17 years old. He lives with clay. So he stays with the three youngest are, are with her. And then I think there's one that's older and and then the 17-year-old's with him.

So this also, their whole divorce thing, and had a parenting plan, that addressed his custody and support. It was a small transfer payment from Shannon to Clay for the remaining period of his minority. So the 17-year-old, she paid him like a little lump sum for his care and then he would pay child support and maintenance that's how they would make it all even so now after the divorce they maintain separate residences in the town of deer park they're only a half mile away from each other though really half miles very close like way too close for me you could run a half mile. That's very close. You could be angry and run there.

I couldn't do that. No. Couldn't do me. You need some time. I put a good 2,000 miles in there. I put 20 between. Yeah, that's not bad. 20 is good, though.

20 is a good start. 20 is pretty good. It's a good buffer. You got to definitely drive and then want it because you got to be like, once you're sitting at the fourth traffic light, you're like, what am I doing? Never mind. If you were going in a rage to yell and argue with somebody, never mind. 20 miles, you can calm the fuck down. Yeah.

So despite all of this, Mr. Starbuck here, Clay, he would appear anyway at Shannon's residence to take the children to school most mornings. That was his deal. most mornings. That was his deal. So October 2011 Clay is in arrears on his support and alimony payments. So in an October 14th letter Shannon

unsuccessfully urges a judge to jail her ex-husband on contempt of court charges for failure to pay child support. How far behind? Well we'll talk about that but that, I don't know how they expect. That's one of those where it's like, unless it's like five years. Right. You don't jail somebody.

Because how are they going to make money to pay you then? It just keeps stacking up, and then what do we do here? You've got to make a plan of like, okay, well, you have to pay this money, and you have to work and do this, and here's your schedule. You can't create a cyclical problem for this person. I mean, if it's been five years years obviously they're not planning on paying and then it's not coming at that point you go to do that kind of shit yeah so he disputed these claims and said he paid her more than 43 000 and continues to pay her rent and utilities but the court documents show that it's all ruled that he owes her about $9,000 that he hasn't paid her.

Okay. Okay. So the court enters a judgment on an order of contempt for $9,166 in unpaid obligations and $500 in attorney fees. So $9,666 he's got to pay. So 96-66, he's got to pay. And he was pissed off, and he sent her a bunch of angry text messages about this and saying, you're fucking me over, and this is, you know, how am I going to do this? I think we were even.

And also saying that he wants more time with their children and more say in raising them. So he's like, listen, you're wanting all this money from me, and I don't feel like I have a place with the kids at the same time. These two need a trial and a judge to make orders. There's a lot of – this is a couple who's been married twice. Yes. This is not your regular – honestly, they don't have a regular beef. That's a different kind of relationship. Thursday, December 1st, 2011, Clay texts his children before 8 a.m here and uh that day he said that his car died and that your mom's gonna have to take you to school then he sent a similar text message to

shannon that was answered with a a k which is oh god what divorced people send each other after information is given. So Clay's phone was then turned off. Okay. She took the children to school. At 9.18 a.m., her cell phone called the Spokane County 911. 9.18 a.m.

The responder did not hear anything intelligible during a 35 second call. Nothing that sounded like words that could be interpreted. She's, this is the operator's quote. Uh, she said a short high, a high pitched guttural sound of a female followed by a rustling noise

consistent with a struggle. And then the phone was disconnected. Guttural. So high pitched and then guttural sound of a female followed by a sounds of a struggle on the phone disconnecting that sounds like a problem yeah 9-1-1 that's the call you're looking for i feel like to really pay attention you know and if if in if after this phone call is over you use the word guttural to describe anything that just happened and struggle yeah

guttural and struggle are two words that probably if you ignore that intervention so that call ended and the the operator dialed the number back but it went immediately to voicemail okay so unfortunately after that though the 911 operator ignored the 911 protocol for Spokane County. I guess they're supposed to call back twice. And additionally, the operator should have entered the call in a computer-aided dispatch log for police as well. Yeah. That way the police have the – they would get that and then they would have, I guess, the option of should we go over there. They should make the call.

Yeah. So they don't do that, though. They call back once, goes right to voicemail. It's like, well, that was weird. Next caller. And they move on? They move on. That's that.

Caller number eight. That's it. Yeah. That's the wrong answer. So she ends up, Shannon doesn't pick her kids up from school which she's supposed to do and usually does one of her daughters texted her at 245 asking who was going to pick them up and her phone responded she responded on her phone a text saying quote dad i have a headache stay there in may of 1980 near anaheim california, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell.

She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get

your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, andbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining

Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So wait for your father, basically. Her phone then texts Clay 12 minutes later saying, quote, I just woke up. Can you pick up the kids? His phone was turned on at 3.37 p.m., which that's when he got it. So it took a while. It was held in the ether there. By that time, one of the older kids had picked up the younger kids and taken them to Clay's house. Okay. Okay.

That evening, one of the kids has a basketball game. Yeah. Mom doesn't show up for the basketball game. game yeah mom doesn't show up for the basketball game um no response when clay and the children go over to her house after the game and try to take he tries to take the kids home and knock it on the door and there's nobody there right so there's no no answer it's 509 north north riper street r-e-i-p-e-R. So you can call it Raper Street, which I don't like, obviously. I don't want to live on Raper Street.

It's a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,760-square-foot house. It's a nice house. Nice place. Nice place still. It goes for like, the Zestimate on it was like 450 grand. Jesus Christ.

Decent-sized house, decent, nice house, nice neighborhood. The house is locked. It's dark. Nobody's there. house, nice house, nice neighborhood. The house is locked. It's dark. Nobody's there. So the next day, Friday, December 2, 2011, Clay calls the Spokane County Sheriff's Office and asks for a welfare check because the children need to get in the house to get their stuff. And she never gives the kids keys also because the kids, she's afraid.

She says that she doesn't want the father to get it. She never gives the kids keys also because the kids, she's afraid. She says that she doesn't want the father to get it. So if the kids have it, she's afraid Clay will end up making a copy of a key and having a key to her house now. That's what she doesn't want. Okay. Not a bad strategy. Which is, I guess, fair. Makes all the sense.

She was with him for 20 years. She might know that he's capable of that. She might be aware of his proclivities. Yeah. So deputies come to the house and they find the lights out, doors locked, and a package sitting by the front door. So they got no response and they had no information. To them, it just looks like no one's home. There's a package outside, lights off. We're not going to bust the fucking door down.

They said, you know, they don't have enough information to get a warrant. It's not like there was a foul play. And the 911 call isn't like a known thing because the person didn't log it. So it's just a 35-second 911 call that happened that some lady forgot about. And they're completely unaware of that. Yeah, they don't have any idea. So Saturday, so the cops just leave. Saturday, December 3rd comes around.

A friend of Shannon calls the sheriff's department and asks them, could you please go over there again and check on this lady? Still haven't heard from her. He already did one of these, and we still haven't heard. So we're all getting a little worried. Apparently, she's good at corresponding. She's a big correspondent. She texts a lot of people. We'll find out.

She texts a lot of people, friends and others. So they check, and they had her landlord unlock the door. Okay. Okay. Now, they enter the house, and everything seems pretty standard until they get to her bedroom where they find her dead on her bed. Okay. That's the – well, this is a rough one so she is naked um bruised and beaten just she looks like she's been through the mill here she's really yeah she's had some it's definitely some physical altercation there is a night

nightgown or robe kind of bathrobey nightgown type thing covering her arms, but that had been pulled up from behind her back. So it's just like on her arms, but like not covering her back, kind of bunched up at the top of her back, covering her arms. Like controlling her with it? I don't know about that. It's almost like if you had that on and then you slid down, it would climb up your back, I think, and then your arms would be out like this. Okay. Only a mattress pad was on the bed, so there's no sheets or covers or anything, which is strange. The blankets were what the detectives called somewhat folded on the floor, but the bed sheets are not in the room, which is, you know, a domestic person that has kids and all that.

Usually they have some form of sheet on the bed. The bed has linens on it. Yeah, even when you change your sheets, you don't have one pair of sheets. Yeah, most people have a 2,700 square foot house and kids and all that. They have multiple sets of sheets at least. Divorced guy here, I got two pairs. That's what I'm saying. Two sets.

One's in the laundry. So the body, though, her body is, this is the crazy part here, her body is certainly posed. It is absolutely presented to be seen in a certain way. For whoever finds her? That is with, this is rough here, There is a dildo inside of her. Yeah. Oh.

Inside the vagina there. And her hands are on a vibrator that's placed kind of near her pubic area there. I'll go by court document speak. That's how they put it. Her hands were on a massager placed on her pubic area. Placed on? On her pubic area. Like, oh, yeah, like, you know, if you were putting it down there.

And her cell phone was on the nightstand next to the bed. Also, her journal that is basically a bunch of shit about her divorce is sitting on her nightstand as well. There's a gun safe near the bed that's wide open. And in the gun safe are, I mean, it's like displayed. Like, hey, look at this, are sexual devices all on the shelves, sex toys of all kinds. In the gun safe? In the gun safe, yeah. Wow.

Just a bunch of stuff that a 40-year-old lady might have that's, you know, a single 40-year-old lady might have lying around the house. So, yeah, she's got that and the gun safe. I mean, that'll keep it away from the kids, I guess. That's good. It's an interesting place to store them, yeah. It's her valuables, you know, or anybody's valuables. I don't know. I don't want it to accidentally go off.

You never know. Yeah. So the coroner determines that she had been strangled with something soft like a towel or by a choke hold with an arm something like that nothing uh nothing hard not a wire not a ligature not a rope there's no rope burns or anything like that she also had chest injuries consistent with the use of a stun gun what yes a stun gun like someone stunned her and choked her yeah which is wild uh the body exhibited just like to subdue somebody right and originally yeah to get the initial fight out of them i think he's going right the body exhibits multiple bruises including one on

the brain which suggested a blow to the head, obviously. Eleven broken ribs. Wow. And a broken bone in the trachea area. So, choking. That's a solid choking. Yep. There was indication that her hands may have been bound during the ordeal as well.

There's marks on the wrist. And the coroner believed the victim died on December 1st as well. The first day. She had been face down when killed that's the other thing she was face down because there's that's also bruising on the back as a knee in the back in the strangle and then moved to the bed and posed awful and where are the sheets because i'm sure there's a lot of evidence on there, I would say. And genetic evidence, I'm sure. DNA, hair, things like that. Somebody took the sheet with them.

So obviously this needs a pretty thorough investigation. I mean, there's no doubt she's a murderer. Yeah. And it's bad. It's bad. She's a suburban mom, for Christ's sake. And this is what people fear the most suburban mom butchered at her house this is crazy so the investigation clay arrives at the home during

the initial investigation he shows up yeah um he volunteered to a detective that shannon was heavily involved with online dating and seeing several men at the same time online dating um they told him to go to the sheriff's substation in deer park and tell them because we're doing something we're fucking busy we're taking processing we're processing this isn't the place so he goes down there there's two detectives down there and he provides a family history and also says she's going out with a bunch of guys so that's who i would look into the The sheriff's detective, James Dresbach, said that he was surprised when Clay showed up at the substation not knowing that his ex-wife had been killed. He showed up. They didn't tell him what happened because he was – but it was just a crime scene.

I mean, it's kind of obvious what happened. But he showed up at the substation like, hey, how's it going? Yeah. And the detective said, Deer Park is a small town. To show up and say he didn't know and nobody would tell him seemed disingenuous. He said, I told him this was about the death of his wife. His knees kind of buckled. He looked surprised and shocked.

That's a good response. The detective said he got you know gave him and by the way clay is he's just a pipeline worker with no criminal record he's not like uh he hasn't had like 10 rapes in his past or anything so the guy said he gave him several moments to collect himself and he said quote i just asked him what do you think happened his response actually made me jump he's he said quote how do you mean how should i know this was in the middle of his like being sad and knees buckling yeah yeah you're you're an ex-husband of 20 you were married for 20 years you don't know anything about this woman well also you would say i don't know i wish god i wish i could i wish i did know you would say i

shit and there's a million ways to say how do you mean how should i know is not the way you respond to it all of the ways you respond none of them are that one so the cop said it was a complete change in his demeanor from being sad which is by the way they test an interrogation they'll test when somebody's acting real sad they'll ask him a confrontational question because a person who is actually in the throes of a breakdown won't be able to veer out of that. They'll still be in a breakdown while they're mad at you or whatever. But a person who's faking it will be like, what, motherfucker? They'll be like, hey, fuck you.

Like that means they're faking. You can't pop out of a sob that quickly. Human beings aren't made like that. So after telling, then he told the cop that it was their job to find out what happened. He goes, that's your job to find out what happened. Fair enough. The detective said, well, where should we start looking? This is how we do our job.

We ask people questions and they give us clues. Especially people that have known the person for 20 fucking years ever heard of a clue yeah you know we look for those trying to get them trying to get one and then we'll follow that that's how it works so the detective said starbucks said just look in her laptop and her phone and that will tell you everything you need to know so the detective said he thought that Clay was faking emotion. Yeah, which is interesting. They said, do you see, they asked him later on, this detective, about tears. They're like, well, yeah, how much did he cry? I mean, how much does a guy have to cry?

And the detective said, they asked him, how many tears should a guy shed? And he said, I would expect one. I didn't see any. I don't know. At least one. I mean, you know, that's something. So they're going to they're going to really this is 2011. So DNA is a big deal here.

And you can pull DNA pretty well. So as it goes on, the emphasis is going on to DNA analysis and cell phone records because that's what all fucking investigations have turned into now as well let's look at cell phones first of all before we get any all crazy so the law enforcement obtains DNA from Clay and his two older sons to establish the Y STR DNA consistent to the male Starbuck lineage that's what they call it so yeah it's the it's the male half of the DNA. Yeah, they said the this is the explanation. Scientifically, the YSTR is a type of DNA testing specific to the Y chromosome, which is only present in males.

Although the test is reliable, it's less discriminating and cannot narrow the identification down to a particular individual male. Oh, it can just give you the line. down to a particular individual male, it can just give you the line. So samples of the DNA were also gathered from additional men who had recently had contact with Shannon. Any guy, if you have a dick and you've talked to her in the last week, we're swabbing your shit. That's how it goes. Period.

You're getting a swab. So they did DNA testing of swabs taken from her neck, face, fingernails. That DNA testing all revealed the that the male Starbuck lineage matched the DNA found in those areas. Now, there's also she lives with male. Right. Well, she only has one boy there. And that's the youngest, and we'll talk about him. But she does see the other ones, too, though, all the time. Sure, they pop in.

Yeah. We'll talk about him. His DNA, as we found out, is interesting. Okay. So they said one additional and unidentified male contributed to the YSTR DNA to the DNA on her neck. So there's an additional male contributing to that that they don't have. It's not part of the family. Y DNA was also found in the vaginal swab and on her cell phone as well.

Oh. But the male Starbuck lineage and all the other males tested did not match that DNA. Okay. Okay. Now, a total of three unidentified males contributed to DNA found in those locations. Cell phone, vaginal swabs, there. Okay. Another DNA nugget here.

The youngest boy, remember how I said how, you know, that DNA, that couldn't be because that isn't clay's kid we find out does he know that i don't think so oh my god he's been paying child support for him so i oh my god and he's 10 show just got it got yeah it just got way juicy so that uh not the father of the youngest boy and uh he that he did the opposite of a maury celebration he was like what what the fuck i've been so um they also look at her cell phone records they got to find out who the fuck she's been talking to yeah does the does the dna on the phone match the one no in that's those are the unidentified males so there's unidentified males and that dna there but the dna the uh

the cell phone um and the uh vaginal swab don't match starbuck lineage okay that's not those are unidentified same thing either no so um and uh the text analysis here tom walker is one of the guys she talks to a a man she had met three weeks earlier. On December 1st, they exchanged text messages between 8.20 a.m. and 8.47 a.m., and they exchanged sexually explicit text messages. Sexting. Yeah, they just met. So they had a date for the following Monday, December 5th here. 5th here um he said that he on december 1st he had left work at 9 40 a.m which is a bad time for him to be leaving work yeah it sure is wish you bet he wishes he'd stayed a little longer but it

was to attend a funeral in spokane valley so he was had an alibi and he was seen by people in a suit at a funeral and he left the funeral at 10 30 and went back to work in a timely manner. So not enough time to kill and pose somebody. He texted her about 1050 a.m. to ask how her day was and to tell her he went to a funeral. She replied at 1210 p.m. asking if he would like to meet her for lunch at one. He responded that he could not because he had to be at work because he already left for the funeral. At 1219 19 she texted back asking if he was on his way for lunch he responded at 12 26 that he could not go again so then she didn't respond anymore cell tower cell tower records established that he's nowhere

near deer park when they're texting by the way the whole time spokane and all that shit so another guy they get is john wilson and i'm using Wilson in quotes, not the guy from the HBO show. Not how to with John Wilson, which is a fucking hilarious show, by the way. But John, his actual name is John Kenline. He's got a different name. Huh. Yeah, but her cell phone shows calls and texts

to and from John Wilson. He's a married Spokane teacher. John. Who met her on a dating website in September 2011 and began engaging in sexual relations with her. The married man looking to cheat here. He testifies later on that he had plans to meet with

with Shannon on December 1st and had arrived at her house at 1030 that day. So she was expecting a guest that day, him, to come hook up. When she didn't respond to his knocking, so she's not home then, even though she's responding to somebody else two hours later, he then tried to call her a couple times from a pay phone in Deer Park. This is 2011, and this man doesn't have a cell phone, by the way.

Well, when you're cheating, James, you won't either. He knows not to leave a trail is what it is pretty decent uh pretty decent game he's not bad also if you want to be a murderer that's a good thing to not have a cell phone yeah yeah he then went to whitworth college and tried to instant message her from a college computer but she didn't respond jesus christ crafty just get a phone bro that's what you do you can go Go to Walmart and get yourself a burner, man. Yeah, get a burner. Jesus Christ.

What the hell? Drug dealers can do it. You can do it. Trying to find a fucking pay phone? Jesus. Wear that in 2011? Good luck. So just after noon, he began to receive texts from her cell phone on public computers at

Whitworth here or at the Spokane County Library. She stated she'd been eating and asked if he had come by. He said that he had been to her house and asked if she's coming back soon. He's like, I want to fuck so bad. I was all planning on fucking tonight. You horny asshole. Calm down. My window's closing.

The wife will be home. I don't want to fuck my wife is what he keeps saying. Jesus. He then texts. We're an opposite. Yeah. He then texted that he would see her around 10 30 that night at 1 17 p.m her cell phone texted back no tonight i have a headache and i will have clay

take the kids so he texted closer to 9 30 which is the opposite persistent as fuck yeah that is insane wow what about earlier i have planned to do this so then another text from her phone was sent at 1 32 p.m saying nope another hour which was 10 30 which she already said no to, so I'm very confused. Then the Klein line here, Ken line here, drove back to her house that night but found the house dark and couldn't get her to come out and respond to it or not. My God. He is all over this.

It's wild. Good Lord. So a lot of his shit is corroborated by receipts that help establish a timeline of the day for him of where he was and when and all this and yeah he's divorced today i'm sure he is i'm sure he was divorced very quickly after this in addition to the unidentified male dna found in the vaginal wash mr ken line testified later to having sexual relations with her a half dozen times including twice at her residence but no trace of his his DNA was ever found at the scene.

He's like, thank fuck I have light DNA because... And I use rubber. Man, this is great. Yeah. So after her body was found, a local dentist, a member of the church that they belong to, told detectives that she had told, that Shannon had told this dentist

that she feared Clay would harm her to get out of paying child support and other divorce obligations. And this guy said clay told him months ago that Shannon was quote, having an affair, texting men and cheating on him. And clay told the man he installed a key, a keystroke detection program on her computer to monitor her activities. So Jesus Christ.

He was monitoring her like a Fortune 500 company monitors their fucking low-level employees. Yeah. Micromanage employees. Wow. Keystroke. So he's like reading messages she's sending. I'm seeing every bit of activity you do on your computer, which is disturbing. Every bit of activity you do on your computer, which is disturbing.

Also, detectives go to search his home, Clay's home, and they found Shannon's death certificate displayed on his wall. He hung it like a fucking diploma? Or a deer head, however you want to look at it. That is disturbing. Like a large mouth yeah jesus like an old italian person hangs like a death certificate of like that you know my son he died in the bed and then they hang that's like weird shit like that but they make like a whole thing in the corner like a shrine this was just like shadow box yeah just uh he framed it this. Also, a backpack containing divorce papers and printed emails between Shannon and another man. So he was all gearing up for court.

Detectives also found a computer hard drive labeled Shannon's desktop comp and 12-21-11. Yes. And also Shannon's ID was hanging from a shelf in the closet, her photo ID, which is weird. So the theory, the prosecutors have here, um, they, their thing is they think that he over the course of the day said his car was fucked up and they can't pick you up. They think he faked his car troubles and instead to get her out of the house to bring the kids to school so he could go into the house while she was gone, lay in wait for her,

and then jump on her, hit her with the stun gun when she came through the door, and then do whatever he did. Wow. He told detectives that he walked the same route four times that day, twice to and from his disabled car, but surveillance video along the way,

all sorts of cameras, never picked him up walking anywhere on that route oh um they also think he used gloves to text message the other two men in order to suggest that she was still alive at that time and maybe one of them would get blamed for it so they think the motives are he's pissed off about that she lives in a nice house and he pays the fucking bills and he has to pay all of his support and maintenance and everything is $4,700 a month. He has to pay. Ooh-wee.

And he's behind. So he was only behind two months, but still. Not bad for a guy that has that steep of a... That is steep. They look at that and they go, $4,700 a month? You're under arrest. $4,700 equals hands behind your back, sir. It's all a lighthearted

nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch

of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier.

I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21stst bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts i think they look to each other they go how'd you feel about that that pissed you off i think that pissed me off what do you think about that ted do you think that pissed you off i think you're under arrest

sir would you murder her for it i think i would i mean i might think about it somebody said no but that's somebody search him yeah i feel like this asshole might maybe i wouldn't but he would so they filed charges um they said a lot of people wanted this to happen a lot faster because this was february 9th so a couple months later but we can't arrest people on gut feelings we needed something to get us probable cause so they allege one count of first degree murder with five aggravating factors one count of sexually violating human remains which the prosecutor said this is the first time in his career he's had to file charges of sexually violating human remains yeah because that's disgusting oh that yeah because usually

you do it before they will not seek the death penalty, though. Is that right? Yeah. So what year is this? 2011. I don't think that they can get it because if they have to get, if they seek the death penalty now in Washington, you have to compare it to the worst case that didn't get it. Yeah. And the Green River Killer.

That's a tart. So now nobody will ever get death in Washington. It's difficult. Yeah, the Green River Killer, he did this about 110 times. A hundred, yeah. Yeah, so it will ever get. It's difficult. Yeah. The Great River Killer. He did this about 110 times. Yeah. Yes. It's a lot worse over and over and over and over. So his interrogation, one of the main things is he denied killing her right away. And then he said his DNA was present at the scene because he used to live there.

So obviously my DNA would be there when they told him his DNA had been found under her fingernails on her neck and face he didn't say anything at that point he just shut up um so they asked him why you why'd you kill shannon and asked him if he planned to do so after he was notified about the court judgment that he had to pay her nine thousand bucks and they and they said that he quote nodded his head side to side as if saying no but didn't speak he just did like a which is again not good interrogation nope i didn't kill that's if someone's saying that you go i didn't fucking kill this person are you kidding me you're out of your fucking mind that's an innocent person yeah a guilty person sits and wonders what they know yeah i don't do that oh hey not me motherfucker hell no that shit was not me i'll tell you everything i did i won't kill her yeah

to the second i'm i'm happy to clear my name here this is crazy so the detective said he asked clay quote if he was saying no he didn't kill her or no he didn't plan to kill her ahead of time and he said quote clay did not respond to this question he remained stoic and nonverbal throughout the remainder of the interview that's not good that is the you can't do anything worse than that I

mean apart from just screaming you did it yeah it's so weird that's apart from this week's small town murder regular case when they said that's how she was. I mean, is that's the worst you could do, but this isn't any better though.

This is a terrible thing. So, um, in pretrial here, uh, the court hears a series of motions and they want to, they want, the state wants to exclude him from using other suspects evidence as a, the fact that she knew other men doesn't make them automatically suspects.

They're saying you have to have some evidence that they could possibly have done it. You can't bring up Tom Walker because cell phone shit shows he was not around there. So he couldn't have done it. He has alibis. You can't bring another suspect as a possible suspect unless you've got like evidence that they could have. He just wants to bring in anybody that she's had, any male she's had contact with from dating sites and all that kind of thing just to make her look like a fucking harlot to

the court, I think is what it is. And, you know, probably if he wanted to pose her like that and embarrass her, something tells me that's what he wants to do. He wants to keep embarrassing her. So anyway, there's all of that and also evidence concerning the victim's sexual activities with men she was dating because it's kind of irrelevant if there's no evidence that they were involved in this. So the court found that he was unable to sufficiently connect either Mr. Walker or Ken Lyne the crime so they couldn't he couldn't bring them up at all as well and her dating history was unduly prejudicial to the state while offering little or no actual value to anything so the kids are on their dad's side real this is blake starbuck

the son um the evidence points to many directions but they just look at my dad then he then blake said she would leave early in the morning two in the morning come back Starbuck, the son. The evidence points to many directions, but they just look at my dad. Then Blake said she would leave early in the morning, 2 in the morning, come back 5, 6, and my neighbor was worried about the safety of my three younger siblings. And this is Austin Starbuck, which again sounds like a superhero name. Austin Starbuck. They are focusing so much on my dad that they're not considering anyone else. It would be different if they said it was his saliva or semen or sweat. My dad lived there until months before this happened. He would go over and fix her computer or put tracking software on it. And then here is his defense attorney says,

I can verify that they met with her in person, not only here but in Seattle and Portland. These men were paying for trips and the police didn't talk to them. She was flying to see boyfriends that she had talked to and met in Seattle and Portland. That's why they're not. Fuck. They were in Seattle or Portland. That's why they're not probably suspects. If it's proven.

Yeah. If it's proven they were a five hour drive away that day, probably didn't do it. You know, it's a thing. So the trial comes along here and the prosecution is insinuating. Like we said, he faked his car troubles and did all that. He used the gloves to message and it's all about the money. One of the son's teachers testifies, and this teacher here, her name is Meredith Pearson. She met Clay and Shannon Starbuck on November 21, 2001 for a parent-teacher conference. So she knows them just from coming in and sitting down at children-sized school desks. That's it. That's it. After Shannon and their son Marshall left, this woman said that Clay began volunteering information about Shannon's online dating life to the teacher that they just met.

What? That is, yeah, highly inappropriate. Why would you? The teacher said, quote, he was concerned about some of the choices she was making with men she was seeing. He told me how the children hated her. The kids hate her. She fucks all the children hated her. The kids hate her. She fucks all sorts of people. No, you hate her. That's unsatisfactory, Greg.

Yeah. As a child, you don't really care who your mom's fucking as long as it's not in front of you. You know what I mean? Wow. He said that the children hated her. Then this is her quote. Quote, he said, I wouldn't be surprised if we find her dead.

I wouldn't be surprised if we found her with her throat slit open. What grade does this woman teach? I don't know. Does it matter? She's a stranger. They don't teach her conferences. It's probably Austin's teacher.

There's a picture of Abe Lincoln on the wall. This is crazy. What are we doing? It's like A is for Apple. What the fuck is happening in here? You're bringing up slit throats this is insane this is 20 days before she's or 10 days before she's murdered so um that is interesting here now clay he testifies oh he has to you have to yeah otherwise it just looks bad what's he gonna do yeah so asked by the defense attorney here um he said they, did you kill her?

And he said, no, I did not, which is not the way to say that. You don't answer that. Shit no would be better. God no. Fuck no would be a better one. Christ, I could never. Jesus Christ, I didn't kill her. No, fuck that.

Shit no. The prosecutor questioned him about his statements to witnesses both before and after the death. Why did you tell the teacher weird shit like that? Why did you bring in all this crazy shit up? He admitted he told several people, including investigators, about his ex-wife meeting men on online dating sites. So four such men were texting Shannon Starbuck on the day they believed she was killed. such men were texting Shannon Starbuck on the day they believed she was killed. So they said, do you think Shannon Starbuck's killer was trying to send a message with their murder, not a text message?

He said, quote, I don't know. It would only be assumptions. Please assume. Assume away. He admitted, yes, he put software on her computer in 2010 that allowed him to spy on her online activities, but that software was no longer active for months before the killing, he said. He said, I was suspicious of online dating activities. I wouldn't say jealousy.

It would be verifying, double-checking to find out whether someone was lying to you or not. Can you, what? Can you just make six, six, a half dozen there pretty quick? That's the same exact thing. Also, you're divorced. Who gives a shit? It's not spying. It's just secretly watching.

It's a totally different thing. I'm not overwhelmed. There's just a lot to do and I don't think I can do it. What are we talking about? What are you saying, sir? Holy shit. What are we talking about? What are you saying, sir? Holy shit.

So he was asked why he volunteered information about Shannon's dating history to strangers and cops and teachers. And he said it was out of concern and, quote, to see if we could help her. She's getting all the help she needs. That's the point. Help her? Yeah, and all the help she needs. That's the point. Help her?

She's 42 and she just got divorced for the second time from the same guy. She's looking for people. She wants to meet people. Help her what? Find more men? What do you want? That's what I mean. I don't know what you're going to help her with.

She's doing great. She doesn't need your help. Not at all. The defense concentrated its closing argument on the unidentified DNA and inadequacies of the sheriff's investigation, which, yes, there are multiple strains, and especially in a sexual manner, vaginal swabs with unidentified DNA in it that's male DNA. Let's find out where that belongs. Love to know who that came from, but that could be there for a day, too. That's the other thing. So they also pointed to

uh ken line the teacher as a possible killer even though he didn't have a phone i think he's just a i think he's just a horny guy just a horny scummy teacher so this is the defense we heard the state a moment ago talk about well only clay would know the content of those text messages sent to the children. Only Clay would say things like Dad or Marsh, the nickname of the youngest son. That's not what we heard from John Wilson. That's the alias of the teacher. That's not what we heard from John Kenline. He said he knew the kids' names and he knew the kids' schedule. Why? So they could arrange their dates. So they could arrange their dates so they could arrange their sexual encounters they're dirty filthy dirty filthy genital rubbing bumping all into each other they're wet handshakes yeah like shaming someone for having sex while you're single isn't really a thing you can do in 2011 that anybody cares about that's not the dunk you think it is man all those jurors are all fucking people online from dating too like they're like what are you talking about so um yeah he says john wilson john kenline knew this shannon didn't even know his real name

no because he was because she doesn't want to find him online see me on instagram with my wife and kids the state asked you who else could have done this ladies and gentlemen john kenline was there four times that day he didn't see anything he was there at 10 30 now this is the time frame where the state believes miss starbuck is still alive so we're clear ladies and gentlemen you are the sole judges of credibility and i leave mr will i mean kenline's credibility in your hands. Interesting about Ms. Starbucks cell phone is what I guess I'll call the gloves on versus gloves off theory. If we're talking about Ms. Starbucks phone, which to 100 percent certainly

certainty does not contain Mr. Starbucks DNA, but does have the DNA of another man, an unidentified man. Now, the state will say, well, obviously, Mr. Starbucks DNA isn does have the DNA of another man, an unidentified man, now the state will say, well, obviously, Mr. Starbucks DNA isn't on the phone. He's wearing gloves. They don't explain why the other male DNA is there. And that's also true. But unless it's like a big glob of semen, it could be she shook hands with somebody then used her phone.

Or she sat at a bar and had a drink with a man and he handed her her phone yes she left or she bought a hamburger and the guy handed her the bag and his and there's dna transfers a lot like that where it could rub so especially when they're being that wiped her mouth and either way you never know doesn't fucking matter so the two eldest sons though they say the most painful part is the jurors are being allowed to hear only part of the whole sordid affair and fear their father's chance of a fair trial is in jeopardy the eldest son austin said she was a great mom she kept the house clean she made top quality quilts and sell them sold them at craft shows for a thousand dollars she was a great cook but she lived in

a different life her online dating life he said i'm sorry austin mom was trying to be happy yeah i mean that's you gotta just adults gotta do what they gotta do and then the other son 19 year old blake said i'm not trying to bash my mom i want the truth before we can even grieve our mom we need a thorough investigation investigators can't say how this happened they can't tell us the story because they don't have one so the jury um here they find him guilty on the two crimes and found that four of the five aggravating factors were present as well and they didn't want one of the jurors juror number seven later said i didn't want clay to be guilty because of those kids i went into this trial with an open mind i tried being objective the majority of the jury thought he

was guilty from the beginning of deliberations wow is it just he seemed very guilty so the court imposes the you sir may fuck off mandatory sentence of life in prison without parole you bet no nothing. He is sent. He is prisoner three, six, six, seven, nine, nine at Airway Heights Correctional Center in Airway Heights, Washington. He will appeal, of course. Of course. Yeah.

He does appeal. He appeals, raising four arguments. One is other suspects stuff. Yeah. He says this is other suspects. The court erred in prohibiting him from presenting and arguing other suspects evidence to the jury and uh they said well it appears that the exclusion order was not strictly followed they also conclude the trial court properly determined that a

sufficient foundation was not presented to admit evidence no fucking evidence of it closing argument they say that the uh prosecutor committed misconduct prosecutorial misconduct in his closing argument by saying that the dna matched his profile suggesting there may have been an accomplice implying clay starbuck was lying about her lifestyle and characterizing the 911 recording as a cry for help oh these i mean it was yeah they're they're saying that you can't he said you can't tell a thousand percent if that was a cry for help oh yeah so you know then how are you going to say you can't you know characterize it that way clarifying characterize that way in the deal there so the primary statements in question came from this with everything that mr reed has just

said about what he claims wasn't tested and why, talking about what the defense attorney said, how does the defendant's DNA, the match of it on Ms. Starbuck, how does that exclude the defendant? I would submit it doesn't. He speaks of another contributor on the DNA. It's not known whether or not the perpetrator of this crime acted alone. Meaning that maybe Clay had an accomplice. Which is a weird thing to bring up when you're making a murder case. You should know exactly what happened when you make a murder case. It can't be like, I mean, who knows

what really the details are. We weren't there. I mean, it's not known whether the perpetrator of this crime acted alone, but one thing is known. A match of the defendant's DNA is found on Ms. starbuck that does not exclude him so he goes through all of this and uh they say get the fuck out of here denied now 2021 the judge does allow post-conviction dna testing okay which is fine i'm all for

evidence being tested yeah get the right guy get Get the right shit. I guess they'll allow new testing of DNA collected during the investigation into the killing here. Now, his attorney, through the Washington Innocence Project, motioned in April to follow DNA or allow DNA testing of swabs taken from the body and surrounding

items that were not previously tested. The attorney argued that a limited DNA testing was conducted during the initial investigation and that male DNA was not Starbucks found at the scene. And the attorney also argued and presented an expert statement saying that the DNA was not a definitive match for Starbucks, but rather Starbucks could not be excluded. So they're going to let them test it. So that makes sense here.

So they're going to let them test it. So that makes sense here. Now, December 18th, 2021, their 25-year-old daughter, Logan, here, she disappears the week before Christmas, December 2021, December 18th. They said it was freezing cold and she was seen wearing shorts, getting onto a bus with no bag or backpack or anything. What? They called her an endangered and vulnerable adult. She's on the autism spectrum, and she's got some issues, like a lot of us do. And she's 5'8", 160 pounds, sharp brown hair, blue eyes, and lip piercings, gauged ears, you know, that sort of stuff, tattoos.

They describe her as reserved, and they said they're worried about her and worried about her well-being. And they said that she currently has a caretaker, but she was adamant about becoming self-sufficient. A few months ago, she had moved into her own apartment, and her brother said that was one of her long-term goals, was she wanted to have her own place, she wanted her own apartment and her brother said that was one of her long-term goals was she wanted to have her own place she wanted her own apartment he said i helped her move all her stuff in you know brought a couch over gave her a tv i was kind of just with her helping her out getting her situated then tragically on february 10th 2022 uh she is found near the sansands Sauchi Mobile Home Park in Spokane in the Spokane River. In the river. She died from asphyxia due to drowning.

And it's ruled a suicide. She went and threw herself in the river. Oh, no. This poor kid. Poor girl. Jesus Christ. I mean, having your mom dead and your dad in prison can't really help matters any, I don't think. Especially because when this happened, she's 25 in 2022.

When this happened, she was fucking 14. Yeah. How would you like to be 14 and have this happen and have this be all everybody talks about around town and you don't understand social shit? And she's working her ass off to be self-sufficient and it's just frustrating. Yep. Clay is all about free clay he thinks he has been wrongly convicted there's this website and it is i'm talking he has an explanation for everything it's clay explains it all and you could read it we should we'll do a

bonus episode about it one of these days but it is every explanation well they didn't check this and this one did that and it's all these him going off after having 10 years to think about it yeah he's got a free clay instagram real oh yeah instagram.com slash convicted dot by dot criminals is his fucking thing you the balls how dare you and i have here's some here look at this i'll look at the fucking picture this is some of his statements here what is this this is these are some of his stupid statements oh my god he is a rambling why this now you have someone asked him to do it and uh yeah yep they said that uh he said he she had a log book of men the detectives during their no rock left unturned investigation failed to turn lift up the mattress and discover the logbook.

He then talks. He names all these different guys. See all these names? What the fuck, man? What if you're one of them? Fuck you, dude. The only thing that's great is in all these guys, one of them's name is Slappy Matt,

which I think is fucking amazing. Slappy Matt was involved in this. So that, everybody, is Deer Park, Washington. Look out for Slappy Matt. And that's a crazy story. And we'll keep you updated on that. Maybe we'll do a bonus episode on his case, quote unquote, what he says. So definitely come hang out with us.

Keep doing that. If you want patreon extra episodes patreon.com slash crime and sports you get a couple hundred bonus episodes all sorts of stuff this week we're only doing one because it's christmas week and we want to see our families so uh we don't want to end up you know divorced and everything else over well again my kids hate me yeah have our kids hate us and everything else so we're gonna do that we're gonna do the garden it's an hbo thing about this weird commune that has hippies and survivalist militia people together very strange check that out patreon.com slash crime and sports

shows are up for sale tickets available all over the place come see us where at 12 different cities jimmy yeah and we'd love by the way to go to more but we just can't with the schedule and sometimes things don't work out sometimes they said oh we have this day and that's the only day you can come and we're already booked on that day so we can't get there so places like chicago places like that of course we love coming there we'll be there as soon as we can we're gonna be where do you go to get those tickets you can go to shut up and give me murder.com and only shut up and give me murder.com or the website of the venue but right well our link will take you there at shut up and give me murder.com right to that third-party sites we cannot vouch for anything that they're legitimate

also they sell them there's people selling the terrytown show ridiculous a year from now and they were three hundred dollars on some site insane and people got mad at us and we're like we're not selling them. We'd never sell tickets for $300. So don't buy from those third-party sites because if you don't buy them, then they'll have to drop the prices of the few they bought. They didn't buy tons of them anyway. So you guys have been crushing it. Thank you so much.

Get in there. San Francisco, Sacramento, Phoenix, Austin, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Durham, Nashville, Tarrytown, Boston, Milwaukee, Minneapolis. Let's do it. There you go, everybody. That's the tour. Get in there and do that. Keep hanging out with us. Listen to our other shows, Crime and Sports, and Your Stupid Opinions.

Holy shit. Get some laughs. You can hang with us all the time and keep hanging with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. and keep hanging with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.