Small Town Murder - #506 - Twin Marrying Madness - Lemmon, South Dakota

Episode Date: July 5, 2024

This week, in Lemmon, South Dakota, a cowboy finds love late in life, with a much younger lady. They divorce, and remarry, but divorce, again. Good news is, he again finds love... with her identical twin sister! This marriage goes as well as with the first twin, and the whole things turns crazy, with everyone, including a new husband, all living together as a family. This unsurprisingly leads to murder, and a plot that is so heartless, it enrages everyone in the area!!Along the way, we find out that 300 tons is a huge rock, that you shouldn't marry & divorce identical twins, and that just because something looks natural, it doesn't mean that it is!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo. Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder Express and we always say it's 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag and wow. Today it's like at least 15 pounds of insanity. Because there's so, I can't even explain it. We'll get to the episode in a second. First, before we do that though,

definitely do yourself a favor. Head over to shutupandgivemurder.com and get your tickets for live shows. Next show is September the 20th, Minneapolis. The theater is amazing. It's the state theater. It's beautiful. It's way too nice for us.

We're gonna be foul that place. So come out and check it out and it'll be our biggest show ever if you guys sell that out. So we're very excited. Go ahead and beat Chicago. The next night we're in Milwaukee. Only a few tickets left for that.

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you listen to Crime and Sports, our other podcast, also Your Stupid Opinions, which is hilarious. You listen to all those and you still are not satisfied. I need more? You need more. We have it. Got you covered. You just need to head over to patreon.com slash crime in sports and you can get so much more. Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before. Bonus material. Anybody $ dollars a month or above a cup of coffee How many cups of coffee do you buy in a month? Skip one of them get tons of content instead new ones every other week one crime and sports one small-town murder and you get it

This week what you're gonna get for crime and sports. We're gonna talk about fireworks accidents. It's work of July It's gonna come out. So and we'll be festive here. That's gonna be fun. And then for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about the real Tombstone. Oh yeah. We've all seen the movie Tombstone. We're gonna talk about Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday and the cowboys and what really ended up happening,

because they take some liberties in the movie. So we'll talk all about that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that. That said, oh, also you get all of that that said oh also you get a shout out at the end of the show which that's a big deal for you yeah there you go Jamil mispronounce your name as thank you yeah so that said I think it's time everybody hey let's all do this I don't care where you are right

now like I said we've set up before are you in traffic heavy track get out of the car who cares that's no one, who cares? Stand on the hood, shit. No one's moving anyway. Stand right on the hood, spread your arms to the sky, take a deep breath, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go.

Loading up the car, let's do it. Jimmy, we go on a trip shall we let's go loading up the car. Let's do it Jimmy We are we got quite a drive and ahead of us here. Tell me why we're going to South Dakota That is right. Yeah, which is near nothing. That's the problem It's no matter where you're coming from it's far and we're going to lemon, South Dakota This is a fruit. Well, no L E M M O N like the man Jack Jack. Well, no, L-E-M-M-O-N, like the man. Oh, hell yeah. Like Jack. Like Jack. Great guy.

Yeah, so, he seemed like the guy, like you watch Grumpy Old Men, you go, I want that to be my grandpa. For sure, yeah. You know what I mean? I wish that was my grandpa. Such a nice, yeah. Yeah, he's got a little fishing shack.

That looks great. I'll hang out with him. It feels like if I pulled a home equity line and paid his tax credit for him, he would have adored me. He'd be gold, absolute gold. Take you musky fishing all the time. So this is in northwestern South Dakota.

And it's right north of the state, like north part of the state. It's right on the border of North Dakota. So it's the northernmost part of South Dakota. Barely in the south. Well, when I mean barely, it is three blocks from North Dakota. This town is like in two states, and it's North Lemon if you're in North Dakota, and it's Lemon

if you're in South Dakota. You could shoot somebody in North Dakota. Yeah, how y'all gonna charge me now? It's a mess. The paperwork, jurisdiction. I was never there. Nope, never there. So it's two and a half hours to Sturgis. This is in the middle of nowhere. It's close to nothing. Two hours to Bismarck, North Dakota. And about two hours and 50 minutes to

Spearfish, South Dakota, our last episode in South Dakota. Episode 453, Torture, Torment and Terror. It's a good one. It was a good one. Yeah. Population here, 1,252. Small town. Very tiny. Yeah.

It's a tiny town. Median household income also very low here. $41,875 is quite low. I think there's a lot of old people here. So it's a fixed income. Can't imagine there's a lot of things to do either. You know what I mean? There's lots of money to make.

I bet we have something to do though. We'll talk about it. Yeah, for fun. Median home price here, $97,900. Very affordable. Very affordable. So the motto here is, quote, the cowboy capital. Of what?

1,200 people of the surrounding area. Cowboy capital. Little bit of history explains that a bit. The guy who started this town, the US government leased him about 800,000 acres of what was the Standing Rock Indian Reservation, because this this guy was a cattle rancher. So they're like, raise cattle here. Hey, guys, other people's land. Move over. We sold that to somebody so they can do stuff that but it's ours. No, no, no

So this is George ed quote boss cow man lemon Boss cow man, so he bought the land for the town site. He wanted to make his own town And he wanted his town to be the county seat is what he wanted to make his own town. And he wanted his town to be the county seat, is what he wanted to. And he didn't do that, it didn't end up being the county seat, but he did get the town. And the railroad officials just named it after him

because they figured he's a pain in the ass, why not? Because he's the boss cow man. He's the boss cow man, and he died here in 1945. Now, there's a few places that say that Lemon in the 1920s was a sundown town, but then there's other places where it's hard to find it, so I don't know if that's true or not, actually. And it's not in like, there's a lot of like,

official listings of all of them, and it's not in any of those. So I think maybe somebody misreported that, I'm not sure. If you've ever been there, let us know. So reviews of this town. Let's find out what other people think here because we've never been here. Could be amazing. This is four stars. Lemon is very warm and inviting. The only thing I would hope to see change in lemon is the availability of fun activities in town. Well, that's. Just 1200 people. It wouldn't be warm and inviting then,

it would be full of people. Yeah, Lemon is a small town of about 1300 people, so it's very safe for families. Yeah, there's not a lot going on here. Crime rate is very low here, and as it is in most small towns. That's not true, as we know. That's not true at all, no.

We cover that. A lot of shows about it. Yeah, maybe in South Dakota, but that's possible too. There's not a lot up there. One public school in town makes for a very important emphasis on sports each year, which is one of my personal favorite aspects of Lemon. Sports?

Sports, high school sports. Not a lot going on. They do need fun activities. High school sports. The sports scene here is amazing. Yeah, I've been in 1200 people. You can just watch sophomores run around all day. It's amazing.

Four stars. The food is good here. It's not comparable to a bigger town, but for small town it's good. We have several bars, but the bars also serve food. Oh. He's just going to tell us everywhere there's food. You're allowed to take food in the post office, but they bars also serve food. Oh. He's just gonna tell us everywhere there's food. You're allowed to take food in the post office, but they don't sell any there.

Three stars, the local businesses in Lemon, South Dakota are average, but not excellent. Our grocery store does not offer that wide variety of certain foods such as fruits and vegetables, while our gas stations are well maintained along with our pharmacy. Not a lot of fruits and veggies around here. Not a lot, sounds like Durham.

We went out to dinner in Durham, quick story, when we were there doing a show. No veggies. There's no veggies available in the restaurant. It was like a decent restaurant in a hotel and we were like, no vegetables come with that? And they were like, oh, okay. Is there is there a salad now we don't have salad huh it's like steak and pork chops and seafood not no nothing that ever grew from the ground

nothing that didn't nothing that didn't come out of another animal was there it was wild and I mean we weren't looking for a lot but I would have liked a salad before I ate a rib eye you know what I mean? Anything green would've been nice. Yeah, I did eat a ribeye, but a salad beforehand would've been. And a pork chop and turnips. And turnips, yeah.

And they use those in place of potatoes. We don't count that. Who the hell's eating a turnip? Jimmy ate it like it was a potato, too, and he was like, oh, these potatoes are terrible. I was like, that's because they're not potatoes. Those are turnips. That's a turnip, Jimmy.

I'd never had a turnip until that day. Me neither. And now I know why. Yeah, no, because we're not 14th century English peasants. That's why. Who the fuck is eating a turnip? So bad. Oh, God.

All right, three stars. There are many jobs in Lemon, but most of them do not offer good hours or the pay is not good. How could there be many jobs in a town of 1200 people? They don't have any... It's going to be service industry jobs or front line jobs. Yeah, gas station, pharmacy. There's not going to be a lot of...

Yeah, there's not a lot of office jobs I wouldn't think here. I don't think CEOs are living here. No, it's like if there's an insurance company, it's one person running it, you know? They don't have any paramedics here, that's a problem. What? So it would be impossible for me to continue my life after college and work in a field that I wanna work in. Oh, so he wants to be a paramedic.

I think the bigger problem is there's no paramedics here. Yeah, maybe you should start your own business of paramedics there. Yeah, I think it would work great. It's a lot of old people I think here too. Things to do in this town, the Petrified Wood Park. Yeah. Yeah, an entire block of downtown built completely out of petrified wood, fossils and stone.

That's cool as fuck. The whole block, everything there is built, wow. Yeah, that's filling an entire block. That sounds pretty neat. It was in private ownership until the sounds pretty neat yeah it was in private ownership until the 50s and then it was donated and it features a wishing well a waterfall and a castle the castle weighs 300 tons I can't imagine yeah wow that's a made has spires and turrets it's fucking cool and I saw it's badass also dinosaur claws bird tracks and fossilized snakes can be seen in the swirls and patterns that is

awesome pretty goddamn cool not bad that said let's talk about a murder let's do it let's talk about some people that need to be petrified here okay let's start out with the man let's talk about a talk about a cowboy shall we he's a real cowboy this is a real cowboy here This is a real cowboy here. Yeah he's born out here and he raises cattle and he works the ranches and he's a ranch hand and has his own. He's a real cowboy. Walter Gibbs is his name. GIBS. Double BS but he's not full of shit. He's actually pretty pretty cool guy. I guess Wally Gibbs He's born August 10th 1904 fuck. Yeah, don't worry. This story doesn't take place in the 30s or anything. It's a

Trust us and go with us here. This is a crazy fucking story Yeah, well now he Christy be 120 I'd call that pretty Maybe the oldest man alive, I think. That would be the story. This is the story of the oldest man alive. So he was born August 10th, 1904 in Wahoo, Nebraska, which I didn't, that sounds made up. Named after the wrestler, McDaniel, obviously.

Oh, oh that, yeah. Yeah, he was the only child of Fred and Laura Who were ranchers they moved to Morristown near lemon in 1910 to homestead the land. Oh, yeah There was there's nothing out there now. So imagine how little of anything there was No people no roads, I mean they have the railroad that's how you got there He attended the country school and quote, this is from a friend of his, quote, farmed with his folks.

Jesus. That's what he did. So he went to the one room schoolhouse. I mean this guy came up in a completely different world than we can. Yeah, he had the leather strap for the books, that shit. Oh, totally, yeah. Went and sat with kids that were nowhere near his age

and learned the same shit, all that stuff. His father was a Spanish-American war veteran, which is amazing. You don't hear a lot of that because that's pre-World War I, so those people were so dead. Teddy Roosevelt shit going on here. He was raised, like all the kids around around here to be a reliable ranch hand. That's what he had to be. No matter from a young age, he had to be. One of his friends said he had a pasture out east of where this guy lived and he said,

I looked out there one morning and it was bright and early and sunlit out on the ranch. Think about that. You know, the sun's coming up. He said, just barely light. And he's out there checking his cattle. Already out there. Yeah. And they're all gathering up around him. So he's come on cattle. They come to him. Yeah. Hey guys. And he, yeah, that's a mall in the head. It's like when my, when I wake up, what happens with my dogs? Anybody when you wake up and your dog swarm you, that's what it is. He's Cinderella for the bulls. That's yeah. So another person whose grandfather was Walter's best friend back in the day

said that Walter really enjoyed playing the violin a lot. He's a fiddle boy. Yeah well if you think about it too in 1915 back then or whatever you get off the ranch for the day. There's not even radio at that point. There's no radio, there's no TV, there's no nothing and ranching ends at dark pretty much. So what else do you have to do? You can learn an instrument. You can learn some shit. He said that him and his grandfather, Walter and this guy's grandfather used to get together and they'd play for hours on end and all this stuff and so Walter's an interesting guy here

He's a violin playing cowpoke Absolutely, very interesting and it's like the bull Lorax. They they come they all they come right to him Yeah, the pipe piper of bulls here. He's he's a Wonder it sounds like he'd be a ladies man, right? He seems to yeah, he could rule ya, yeah, play you a nice song, and also, yeah, raise the cattle. Well, if the cattle swarm you, I figure that anybody would, you know?

That just means you have some sort of charisma. Yeah, yes, you come across as approachable and gentle. His friend, though, said, when he was a young man, I never, ever heard of him having any romantic entanglements with anybody. At all. Think about it, he said never ever any romantic with anybody.

Never ever any anybody. Never, that says. That is zero, that's less than zero, I think. Not even any prospects, that's less than zero. That's less, yeah, he's not even like, I mean, he was talking to that one chick for a while. You've never seen him talk to a woman, never. That's less than zero. That's less. Yeah, he's not even like, I mean, he was talking to that one chick for a while. You've never seen him talk to a woman.

Never. And his friend said, I think he was really afraid of women, kind of shy about it actually. So that might be because I mean, if you come up the only child on a ranch, you might not have the access to meeting many girls. So when you get around them, when you're young, and then women when you're older, you might not just, you don't know how to talk to them Your mother's the only woman you've ever been around and the influence that he's had perhaps is there I don't know but maybe a woman who has a man and her son on a farm is not the most like

Tender endearing woman, you know, that's possible. Yeah, and and the father too, you know Probably is a quiet sore Maybe a quiet cow hand type sort So you don't learn any do your job and shut the fuck up kind of guy not cracking a lot of jokes probably or anything giving you like a personality around here So his dad ends up dying in the 50s So his dad's dead. So he it's just him and his mom on the farm

So his dad's dead, so it's just him and his mom on the farm. Yeah, he's in his 40s. He's in his, at this point, Christ, he's in his 50s now. 50s, yeah. In the 50s, yeah. By 1963, his mom gets very ill, and she's gonna die pretty soon here, which I mean Christ, she's like 90 years old. It makes sense. So he hires someone to help them out around the house, because he's doing ranch work,

and he's got his mom sick in the house house so he needs somebody in the house to take care of his mom and do all that so he finds a young lady to hire Dolores Wall W-H-A or W-A-H-L Wall like the Clipper like the Clipper she is born in 1945 so she's 18 years old at this point. Okay. And so you just, I gotta hire a young girl who can take care of my mom, that's all it is. Now she is not the brightest young lady going. No.

No, she has an IQ of 74. Okay. 74. Yeah. That's extremely, that's low. Well, listen. That's below the Mendoza line, as they say in baseball. That's on the wrong side.

Gump buried Jenny with that shit, so it's fine. His was higher. Was it? Yes. How much higher? I think it wasn't his 82. I don't know. Yeah, that's a lot.

She didn't finish grade school. Not high school, grade school, like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. She didn't get to school. Not high school, grade school. Like one, two, three, four, five, six. She didn't get to the end of that. What do you do? You take care of an old lady on a farm. That's what you do. Yeah, at her end of the day, yeah.

She is, they say she was raised in poverty. Sure. You know, learning how to read and that kind of stuff wasn't a real priority. And I mean, come on, that's tough. If you don't have a lot to begin with, she wasn't dealt a great genetic hand to begin with, and then on top of that, you're also very poor. It's hard to build.

That's a foundation of sand. Anything put on top of that's gonna fall over. Always, and she's troubled from the start too, Dolores. Always troubled from the start. But that does not stop her from having a torrid romance with Walter. Her and Walter hook up. Is that right?

He is, Jesus, he's 60 years old. Yeah. 59 when they started hooking up and she was 18. That is. not wow. Wow. Good for it. I don't know. That's not good. No, you got to sell like what? 20 million albums to make that acceptable in the world. Right.

Yeah. Well, that IQ that that makes her like 13 to 15. You know what I mean? She's definitely not. She function. Yeah, she functions. She reads at a second grade level Oh, all right, and does math that at a level lower than that. Yeah. Well, I guess that's what's available Sorry Wally. Yeah, this is the first woman he's ever been around and he's she's in his house So but still she's a child basically, I know 18 isn't a child but when you're 59 it is Yeah, and There's multiple things here

making her not okay. This is all, 40 years is a bit of a stretch. If you're like 30 and 70, I mean, I guess, I don't know. Like I said, if the person who's 70 is like real famous or something, sure. Very wealthy. Very wealthy, I don't know, but 59 and 18 is a bit weird. Yeah, when all you've got is a ranch.

Yeah. So they, for the next 10 years, they live together in this house and on the farm that he grew up with and his parents' farm and everything's fine. We're getting closer to 30 and 70 now. Now we're getting there, That's what I mean. Now she's 28 and whatever. It's all fair game, I guess. At that point, whatever.

She wasn't just in biology class, or supposed to be, I should say. Neither was she. No. So yeah, they're married in 64. By 73, they moved to the lemon area. Okay. Okay, by 73. They soon divorce after they move here. Really?

I think they were having trouble out there by themselves. That's why they moved closer to this town. And then it was still, you know, whatever. Dolores takes off. Okay. She's gone maybe because she hasn't done anything, probably lived at her parents' house and then went to this old, yeah, then went to an old man's house and then lived with them for a while. She's probably gotta go do some stuff. Now- Taking care of an ailing old lady and she's dead now?

Mom? Yeah, the mom died a couple years. The mom died before they got married, so. Okay. Yeah, or they got married and that killed the mom. The mom was like, oh my God. It's possible, yeah. You married that child that was taking care of me.

What have I done? So, while he's So while she's gone, he's kinda, you know, he's kinda sorta retired at this point. Yeah, yeah. And he moves to town, he plays cards with people in town. Has no ranch anymore. Comes down, no, no, doesn't have the big ranch anymore. He'll have like a farmhouse later, but not a ranch.

And everybody said he would take in anyone with a hard luck story. Because as he got older, a lot of his contemporaries were dying off. These are hard living ranch people. They eat beef like 16 times a week. Your heart can't take that for more than 60 years. Those deaths, they may be fast, but they are fucking hard. They hurt.

Oh yeah. That's an ugly death. Yeah, and also it's a big man man so you can hear him at the ground. It's as you feel it. Was that a quake or did Bubba die? He won't fight this disease, whatever takes him, for very long. His heart is just going to explode like a water balloon. He's going to die with his eyes wide open.

One day strong as an ox, next day hard exploded. That's how it's going to work. Eyes wide open. He is shocked that he died. So Walter's looking for friends. Yeah. That's the thing. He's, he's open to like, you know, meeting people cause he's lonely here. His wife left, his friends are dying. I'm starting to stoop over with age. He's five foot 10 originally, but he's starting to get frailer, more frail with age here. So where the hell did Dolores go? Where? Well, she got tired of this boring life of sitting around with an old man and watching him get older. And she found a guy, a ranch hand, a young man, you know, probably around her age. A bunch of guys came up from

Oklahoma to do work. And when they left, she ran away with the guy. One of the Oklahoma guys, they said, some guy from the area said, we called them hay shakers. Okay, guys that feed horses. How's it doing? How's everybody doing out there? All my little hay shakers, how you doing?

From now on, you're turkeys and hay shakers. How do you like that? What are you in town for? I'm a hay shakers how do you like that? What are you in town for? I'm a hay shaker from Oklahoma. Just shaking some hay here on a migrant hay shaker. I can't believe there's not a country band out there that is like the Hay Shakers. Yeah.

Yeah. Terrence Riley and the Hay Shakers. And the Hay Shakers. That really should be a country band. It is. They sing the song I stole your wife Dolores. Heard that one? They sing a song called, She Ain't Never Coming Back, because we bringing her with us.

We taking her with us. Problem is, this doesn't work out very long. She's only gone, she's gone a couple of years, but she found herself in trouble in Kansas. She found herself broken up with this guy and in trouble with the law in Kansas. Oh shit, that's a country song. That's what I mean, this whole thing.

This episode, if there's any talented musicians out there, please take this entire episode and make a country song out of it, because it's fucking amazing. It's either a country song or write a weird Twin Peaks style script, because it's wild. I want the country song. Jason Bolland, get it going. I don't know, there's going to be a lot of verses though, because it gets... It's going to be your whole concert is just this one song.

And it's so crazy that it would sound silly. It's a rock opera. It's like Tommy, basically. It's like The Who. It's a rock opera. This is better. There might be a market for that. Was there ever a market for Tommy?

That sucks. It was huge. Was it? It was so bad. It was monstrous. Absolutely humongous. Those guys are still spending Tommy money. I can't believe it.

Still spending Tommy money. Wow. So, anyway, she's in trouble in Kansas. God, I want to talk about that for so long. We have to do the story. Walter found out where she was, and he headed for Kansas and brought her home. He went and got her. Went and got her.

Saddle up, we ride at dawn. Not only did he go get her, one of the friends said, quote, one time Dolores ran off with some guy and they went clear south, that's this time. Clear south is one state south, by the way. Two states away. Yeah, clear south.

She called Walter and he asked if she'd come back. She said she would if he would buy a brand new car and come and get her. And that's what he did. Oh, so yeah, I've been caught a couple of years. I've been getting my hay shaken by this fucking fellow over here. And that's an inside joke that fell apart too. Sorry guys. And, and, and then he, she has demands to come back and he says, okay, and then he comes back. And he goes and gets like, I hope he bought like a fucking a Justy or something awful.

Just here you go, it's brand new. He hadn't walked since she left, Jimmy. He was on Ben and Judy. Yeah. We were making fun of songs. Boy, cement lyrics are so bad. We were making fun of funny old lyrics before this and we came to that and we've been talking about it.

I was like, I gotta squeeze that in here somewhere. He said he'll never walk again. Never walk. Sorry, I got a wheelchair. What do you want from me? Shocking. I'm done. So 19, so they've been divorced now for like two years, by the way, they got divorced when she ran away.

1977, they get remarried. Again? Walter and Dolores get remarried. The man is 74 years old. She's back in the fold though, it's fine. Then later on in the year, they get divorced again. So that didn't work out. That didn't work out.

Dolores then marries someone else here, a guy with the last name of Christensen, not Christensen, Christensen. Marries him and she has a daughter born around 1978 named Robin with a Y. Okay, so that's Dolores' daughter. He divorces her, Dolores divorces this guy. Christensen, she's done with him too. Christensen, done with him, and now it's just her and Robin, okay? Now, 1979, Walter finds love again. Wally, good for you. And it's not with Dolores. No?

But it's with someone strikingly similar to Dolores. Who is she? Because, and this is the soap opera twist, it's her identical twin sister, Darlene. I swear to God! I swear identical twin sister, Darlene. I swear to God. I swear to fucking God. Darlene. Her identical twin sister, Darlene.

Does she have it together? No, she's a disaster. She's more fucked up than, she's smarter, but she's wackier. Oh no. She's been arrested for arson and all sorts of shit. She's nuts. So when the matriarch of a prominent Princeton family is found stabbed to death in her locked basement, investigators look from a serial attacker to her family, to Princeton University students. One hot blooded investigator sees a conspiracy. Is he way off base or does privilege

let you get away with murder? You can listen to In the Shadow of Princeton exclusively and ad free with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple podcasts. Hey, I'm Michelle Beadle. And I'm Peter Rosenberg. Hey, Peter, tell the people about our new podcast. Right. It's called Over the Top and we cover the biggest topics in sports and pop culture

using Royal Rumble rules. That means we'll start with two stories, toss one out on its ass, and dive into the other stories with ruthless aggression. Oh, but it never stops, because every 90 seconds after that. ["Sand in the Fire"] -♪ Sand in the fire.

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Fair point. Yeah! Darlene, identical twin sister, Walter Marison. Where do you meet her? I assume at Thanksgiving. I have no idea. Easter, Christmas, the flip. At a funeral?

Funerals. There's a lot of places to meet your sister-in- Easter, Christmas, of love. At a funeral? Funerals, there's a lot of places to meet your sister-in-law, really, probably. So, holy shit, that's wild. So he married his sister-in-law. So he's already married Dolores twice and divorced her twice. Now he's married to his sister-in-law, his ex-wife's identical twin.

Wow. Okay, 1980, they get divorced. Walter and Darlene, divorced. Okay, 1982, Walter remarries Darlene. Oh, god damn it, Wally. What is happening right now? That's what I mean, this country song would be hard to follow.

You'd be like, did he just, wait, he fucked her sister, then he married her again, is it the same did he just, wait, he fucked her sister. Then he got, then he married her again. Is it the same sister? I'm confused. Hold on a minute. The hell am I listening to here? This is fucked up. This is wild stuff right here. Only on this show will you get this insanity. So yeah, he marries her again in 82. They're, they're married. Um. He rented out the family farm at that point, rents out the family farm and moved into the proper lemon town here. So lemon proper they moved to. December 1983, I'm going to give you a guess what happens. Did he get divorced?

They get divorced. It didn't work out. Stop marrying Darlene. It's not working. At least one he was married to for 10 years one time. He's married for thrice now, yeah? No, twice, twice. Twice. Two times married, two times divorced. Okay, got it. Yeah. So he's been married to these sisters four total times and divorced them four total times. Both of them twice. Both of them married identical twin sisters twice and divorced them twice. Has that ever happened in the history of the world? Well, there's two of them, so you have to do it. I mean, you know what I mean?

There's gotta be someone who's married identical twins, both of them, I'm sure that's happened. But twice each? I don't think that's ever happened. That's remarkable. Oh my God. We've uncovered new ground here. So they get divorced.

Walter's friend here said, and this guy has known him for a long time, said Walter was a nice guy until he got mixed up with those nitwit twins that's such an old Midwestern man way to put it and nitwit twins they're crazier than a couple of bed bugs he goes on to say. What? Crazier in a couple of bed bugs. I want to get to the bottom of that statement. I do too a lot That's that's got to be some old bunkhouse saying you know what I mean crazier than bed Wow Yeah, I guess it's crazy to sneak in someone's bed and then bite them. I guess it's crazy so

1984 Walter gets married again Who's who this time to someone not in the Wall family, luckily. Oh, thank God. He finds a woman named June Penny. So there you go. I don't know how old she is, but I don't know if she's strikingly. Of the JC fortune? Of the JC, yeah.

June Carter Penny is her name. Early 1984 and 1985, remember Dolores and her daughter, Robin? I remember her, yeah. They're moving around all over the place in South Dakota and North Dakota. They're having a tough time getting any grounding. Darlene and Dolores don't do well in the world, which doesn't surprise me really because it'd be hard to with honestly the toolbox Dolores is working with is not full.

It's missing screwdrivers. Where's the 3 8ths? It's not here. Fuck like this. She's missing a lot. Yeah, only a flathead. The 10 millimeter disappears quick, but where's the 13? She's got a lot of tools missing from this box.

So around this time too, Dolores is convicted of theft and went to jail for a while. I don't know what happened to her daughter, but at some point they're reunited here. Great. So she goes to jail for a while. 1986, Walter and June get a divorce. So that's over with now.

Walter should just swear off marriage at this point forever. He's not good at it. Number one, he's 82, I think it's time. And number two, I mean, it really never works out. It always seems like a better idea than it really is for this guy. Leave everything to the state and let them fix a road with your shit. Yeah, this is a mess. Stop doing that shit.

One of his friends said that Walter was a quote, good old shoe. What is that? At least he's not crazier than a bed bug. They're saying good old shoe. They're comfortable, nice, accommodating. Broken in. Good laces. Real nice laces.

They tie, never untie by themselves. His friend also said he was a good neighbor, too good for his own good. Too good for his own good. And an easy touch. What? And he's an easy touch, like an old shoe. I don't know about that.

I don't know. I feel like I would go to this town and just go, I don't, what? Where is, I'm just wondering where the, what? I don't, I'm- He's a salt sticky. What, what does that mean? Jimmy, can we leave now?

Cause I don't know what anybody's talking about. This is really weird. This is so strange. His friend also said he was just a brute for punishment. I think glutton is really weird. This is so strange. His friend also said he was just a brute for punishment. I think glutton is the word she's looking for here. I think he thought he was helping them, meaning all the women he's with. They were all just taking good advantage of him. They really have a strange way of speaking. So these are all people who like known Walter for years. So they're also probably 80. They really have a strange way of speaking. So do. And these are all people who like known Walter for years.

So they're also probably 80. They were all born in 1912 in South Dakota. So I understand the nomenclature maybe being a little different than we're used to. So around that time, Darlene, twin number two, right from his eighties marriages, she gets married a little sharper, but she uses it for evil, so. She gets married again, okay. She marries a guy named Jerome Phillips, who's about three years younger than she is.

He goes by Jerry, Jerry Phillips here. Jerry's a big guy, 6'2", 275, he's a real big kind of a guy, weird looking guy too, in his head, he's a weird-looking guy so Big Jerome. Yeah, they met in prison. That's good. She met a man in prison Yes, she met a man in prison because you know, they were both in the same prison I guess during maybe visiting hours they crossed paths something. It's probably so small. They just keep them all together Yeah, well, I mean to what they're in for. I mean, they seem like a match made in heaven.

He's in for writing bad checks. And she's in for setting fire to a house in Bison, to the town of Bison. You combine the both. That's a damn nice night. That's a real, he's got checks to burn, and she's got the flames to burn them. So yeah, he's a convicted felon.

This isn't the first time he's been in jail or prison. He's convicted of felonies before. He's a known sheep rustler. What? I say he's a sheep rustler. This is the late 80s. Think about this shit. The late 80s.

Hulk Hogan was saying his prayers and vitamins and Madonna was already a material girl and we didn't know Michael Jackson like kids. The whole, it was, this is the 80s. He's rustling sheep. Sheep rustling, which is something from a John Wayne movie. Yeah. Also a hog rustler as well. So you know, if you're gonna rustle sheep,

you might as well. Stealing livestock at all in the 80s is fucking wild. Yeah. So 1988, Jerome and Darlene, the newlyweds, they move in together, because they're married once they get out of jail, and Dolores and Robin come live with them. Sure, why not?

Let's all get in this together. Between the three adults and child, no one can make enough money to survive. Right, yeah. Nobody can. I mean they're all convicted felons too which is a problem. The child is the only one that doesn't have a record. Whenever they go out anywhere the child has to drive. They're like you're the only one without a Dewey. You got to do it. I'm sorry. With the license it's

clean. You're the only clean one here. Plus we've all been drinking. So Darlene had been convicted of arson two different times by now, by the way. She loves fire. And Dolores and Darlene were known for starting fires. Dolores helps her sometimes. Seems like Darlene does a lot of stuff with Dolores kind of like in tow, like a little sister because I guess because she's a little smarter maybe and there's all there. There's a lot of times that's how it is with twins too. Sometimes and then sometimes they're like the squars and they're just like you took

a person and cut them in half and now they're just the same person. Yeah, that's it. Talking to them and your head's going back and forth like a tennis match as they finish each other's sentence. How do you guys know what the other guy guy's gonna say all the time? This is crazy. Fucking creepy, man. I can't believe it. Why is this so creepy? One person said, quote, everybody was afraid of them. To the locals, the twins are dangerous arsonists. So obviously, now February of 1989, Dolores contacts Walter. They haven't been in touch in a long time.

Besides family functions when she was married to Darlene, I'm sure. He, at this point, is in Hedinger, North Dakota, at a nursing home where he's living. He's not sick or dying, he's just hanging out. I think it's a place to hang out. You know what I mean? And this is where I'll end up, so I may as well just start here. I think it's like Green Grove, where they sent Tony Soprano's mother,

where there's activities and all that shit. So Delores quote unquote offers to move back to Lemon and get you out of that nursing home, put you back in your house, and I'll take care of you. Delores says. I just need $100 cash. I just need $100 cash. Yeah, Dolores says Just need a hundred dollars cash It's a Stevie reference so February of 1989

Dolores and Robin come move in and so do Darlene and Jerry Bringing them to everybody coming along they got keys to the house and start cleaning and preparing for Walter to come back Okay, they all move into the home to quote take care of him So this is for about two months. They do this and then Walter moves back into the house April 15th, 1989 He's returned. So at this point, by the way, his will that's a factor His will his attorney a guy named Curtis Hanks had represented him in all five divorces. He's a factor. His will, his attorney, a guy named Curtis Hanks, had represented him in all five divorces. He's a good client, this Walter. He's a-

Yeah, very loyal. He'll keep getting divorced. The only person he's loyal to is his lawyer. Is his lawyer, yeah. All of the wills named his first cousin, Bernice Bottner, as the beneficiary. Yeah. It's like his only family member he's got around. In March 1989, at the request of Walter,

prior to leaving the nursing home, they grew up, they drew up an addendum to this or whatever, leaving the home in Lemon to Dolores and the rest of the estate to his cousin. So that way when he dies, she won't get kicked out of the house now. She owns the house? I don't know. Yeah, then all of his money and his like stock stuff and everything that all goes to his cousin. So that's how that goes. And they are all

I guess living like one big happy family. Yeah, everybody's there. They're taking care of him. Dolores is the one doing most of the cooking, twin number one. Sure. And she does the laundry. She gives Walter regular baths. Oh. She's got to do that. Jerry would help Walter with such things as getting in and out of the bathtub. Okay. So let me have my ex-wife's new husband come here, give me a hand into the bathtub, and then my ex-wife can sponge me off.

What the fuck is happening? A different ex-wife from this guy by the way. Yeah, the other ex. Holy shit. But Darlene, Jerry, nobody's got a job by the way also in this house. No, their job is to take care of him. He pays the bills, he handles his own finances and all the stuff relating to the farm and everything like that. Oh, by the way, forgot to mention this. I didn't forget, but here it is. Here's a fun one. In addition to all the other just weird dynamics of everybody being married twice and new husbands

and all this shit being involved, in addition to all of this, Dolores, twin number one, and Jerry, twin number two's current husband, are also fucking at this point. He's banging, twins? Which was approved of and fine with Darlene. Negotiated, perfectly fine. This is all okay.

Jerry's now banging both of- Both twins. Both Wally's exes. Not at the same time, but yes. Yeah, and he's doing it twice, I'm sure, just to make sure. Yeah. So a friend of Walter's who'd known him for a few years time but yes yeah and he's doing it twice I'm sure just to make sure yeah so a friend of Walter's who'd known him for a few years said that Walter's physical

condition and the condition of his home during the time that everyone was living there falling apart specifically he said that the house had a quote strong odor of dog urine and body odor. Oh no. Oh boy. And that Gibbs's physical condition seemed to have deteriorated and he seemed slightly disoriented. Yeah, those two smells fighting it out to be top dog in here is not good. I feel like a lot of that stinks coming from Jerry for some reason. Probably, yeah.

They got like a 300 pound guy in there who's banging both twins, not showering, he has nowhere to be, he's not taking a shower, it's probably disgusting in there. August 20th, 1989, a fire breaks out in the home. Oh no, the smell's combusted. Yeah, now Walter sleeps in the living room on like a pullout couch, that's where he sleeps. Nice. So he can have access, I don't know, to the bathroom

and other people can have sex in the bedrooms. Right, so the people can fuck in can have sex in the bedrooms. Right. So the people can fuck in his room. That's not cool at all. So the fire starts in the living room. So that's not great. A neighbor happened to be outside when it happened. This is the night while Walter was sleeping.

So he came over and saved Walter and the neighbors put the house out. Okay. And then the fire department came and sure helped too. So then the next day, the fire, the house burned to the ground. Oh, it reignited. Yeah, so we were wondering, maybe they didn't get it out all the way.

Some smoldering, nope, Darlene burned it down. She tried once, didn't work, set it on fire the next day. There we go, now we're talking. So yeah, the neighbors said, quote, now we're talking. So the other neighbors said quote they were fire bugs. So they're bed bugs and fire bugs. There you go crazier than two fire bugs is fun. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. They tried to burn it down one day and we got back in time to save it. The next day they burned it to the ground. Finished it. Yeah that's what happened. So January 5th 1990, he changes his will Walter does

Yes, his attorney a different attorney this time Jeff Rottering not the one he's used for years and years said that Darlene and Dolores came into his office without an appointment on January 4th with a request that this lawyer helped Gibbs revise his will with a request that this lawyer help Gibbs revise his will. So they met for two hours with Gibbs at his home and this lawyer said he was convinced that Gibbs voluntarily wanted to make Dolores as beneficiary. So now the estate including the house, the farm, the land, the cattle, farm implements, money, stocks,

bank accounts, savings. What is she gonna do with cattle? Come on. All that shit is all Dol do with cattle? Come on. All that shit is all Dolores' now in the will. Okay. So, I don't know, for whatever that's worth, it's about $178,000. Really? Of his estate here.

So that's what he does. That's January 5th. By January 8th, the whole crew is talking about killing him. Oh, three days, 72 hours. Three days. They're like, you know? They were driving to Jerome or Jerry's brother's funeral and Darlene and Jerry discussed, this is the first time it's came up, Darlene and Jerry discussed killing Gibbs in order to

quote, activate the will, they said. So Darlene said, maybe we can mess with his medications. He's got a bad heart, He's on a bunch of medications Maybe we could fuck with that So but nothing that much comes of it. There's just a little chit chat here by late February 1990 The talks are getting a little deeper. Oh boy. Yeah, they're talking about Darlene says well we can weaken him and Speed up his death by mixing sleeping pills and nitroglycerin tablets in

with his tea. Good Christ. And then we could also put sleeping pills in his milk of magnesium as well. He's in his 80s. Give it a minute. He's 85. Just hang out. And he's not healthy either.

He's like, look how many pills he's on. This is, his heart's weak. He's 85. Give it a second. Let the guy go. God damn So I guess during these conversations. This is mainly Darlene and Jerry and Dolores is there but she just kind of sits there. I don't know if she understands what's going on honestly She's just sitting there. She seems to get what's happening though

so a few You know days weeks go by Darlene says, we should really spike his tea with medication. And then eventually she comes to Jerry and Dolores and said that she loaded up Walter's milk of magnesium with sleeping pills and prescription meds. So, fingers crossed. Jesus Christ. So they were, I guess, Jerry and Dolores at the time. They knew what Darlene was wanting to do

And I guess Dolores hasn't really shown any interest one way or the other She hasn't she's not for Oregon at this point. She's hasn't decided whether she's with this or yay or nay on this point Or she hasn't told anybody So Dolores on at least one occasion Or she hasn't told anybody. So Dolores on at least one occasion purchased over the counter sleeping pills when she refilled Gibbs's prescriptions because she's the one that refills the stuff. She has to be acquiescing at some point here because she's buying the pills to do this with.

So the last week of March, Darlene says, you know what, this is Darlene, Dolores, and Jerry hanging out, sitting at the kitchen table. Darlene says, what if we smother him with a pillow? He's pretty old, that shouldn't take long. Throw mama from the train just came out. I mean, yeah, let's give it a shot. Why not? It's out right now. So without saying anything, Dolores gets up,

goes to her bedroom, and comes back with a pillow. Oh my god But no not not for Walter. This is to do a test run So it gives it to Jerry Jerry Darlene says yeah Yeah, put it over my face, and I'll see if I can breathe see how long it takes see if I can breathe Yeah, so they do a suffocation test and Jerry puts the pillow over her face and presses down and she's like, Oh, thumbs up. She's given. She's like, yeah, this is awful.

I can't breathe for shit. So they're like, that could be a plan. So Jerry stopped Jerry. Oh yeah, no, this was just a test to see if Darlene could breathe under there. She said, yeah, no, I can't breathe at all. They were like, awesome. And then they went to Dairy Queen or something, I'm sure. So March 31st comes out, 1990.

It's a Saturday evening. Darlene announces to the other two that, okay, I put more shit in his food and drink than I normally do. So if he's alive in the morning, we are gonna have to do something else. It's not, you know. Okay So if he's alive in the morning, we're gonna have to do something else. It's not, you know, okay, if he's alive. So morning time comes and 911 gets a frantic call from Darlene. Oh, it's a farmhouse on the edge of town. And she said there's an elderly gentleman. He seems to be dying. I don't know what happened. You woke up. He's old, who knows?

So they send the ambulance. So apparently they do have paramedics somewhere. Yeah, somewhere nearby. At the house, Darlene lets them in. She says she lives there with her ex-husband, who is 85-year-old Walter Gibbs. They come into the house. They see him.

He's lying on the bed there in the living room, non-responsive. Darlene said, well, he's been declining in health and he's got a pacemaker and he's on these meds and starts handing him all heart medications. Why would you do this? So the EMTs are like, oh, it's obviously a heart attack. He's 85 and he's on 800 heart medications,

got a pacemaker. His pace was worn out at this point. His pace has been made. It's been made, man. His pace, it's stopped at this point. That's his pace. Divorced beheaded died. Divorced beheaded survived.

We know the six wives of Henry VIII as pawns in his hunt for a son, but their lives were so much more than just being the king's wives. I'm Arisha Skidmore Williams. And I'm Brooke Zifrin. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Royals. In each episode, we'll pull back the curtain on royal families past and present from all over the world to show you the darker side of what it means to be royalty.

We rarely see Henry VIII's wives in their own light as women who use the tools available to them to hold on to power. Some women won the game, others lost, but they were all unexpected agents in their own stories. Being a part of a royal family might seem enticing, but more often than not, it comes at the expense of everything else, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Follow even the Royals on the Wondery app or wherever

you get your podcasts. Go deeper and get more to the story with Wondery's top history podcasts, including American Scandal, Legacy, and Black History for Real. So they tried to perform CPR in an effort to save him, but it didn't work. They got to the hospital, looked at him, he's dead as a doornail, there's that. So he's pronounced dead. No indication of any injuries, bruising,

didn't look like somebody beat him or anything like that. He's just an old man who died in the sleep. Okay Significant heart history taking lots of medication manner of death ruled natural Poor guy just happens. No autopsy just a dead old man who croaked in his sleep. Is that right? Just an 85 year old man who croaked in his sleep got to preserve our resources. I just saw him open for this shit It's pretty obvious what happened. We know. We're going to find a pacemaker in there. Yeah, and all these medications. That's what we're going to find if we have an autopsy.

So they have a funeral and Jerry's one of the pallbearers, you know, does that. His assets, Dolores, petitions for probate of the will. She has the right to. The cousin objects to this though, citing that Walter was incompetent and lacked the capacity to change his will when it happened. So it's being whatever. So July 1990 they have a hearing on the will and they found that according to the lawyer who did it and everything else that Walter, he was mentally confident.

There was no confidential relationship between Walter and Dolores. So fucked up. So the cousin appeals that and that'll come up later. 1990, at some point in here they found out Darlene is the one who set the house fire. And Darlene's arrested for it and charged with arson. So August of 1990, she's going to be sentenced for this and it's not her first offense, it's like her third offense. And this is first degree arson for setting the house on fire. She is sentenced to,

you ma'am, may fuck off, 50 years in prison for that. 50 fucking years. 50 years in prison. They take fire dead serious up there because everything's flammable. Shit, I guess so. She maintained her innocence throughout the trial. 50. 50. So the next month, September 1990, completely unrelated incident here, Darlene and Jerome, or Darlene's in prison, I'm sorry, Jerome and Dolores, who've now just hooked up and they're just the two that are left,

they're arrested together for for rustling 12 lambs and Five pigs from a local rancher and the lemon livestock auction from the one Yes, oh for heaven's sake they're arrested for lamb rustling have we had how many murder shows Do you listen to where people get arrested for lamb rustling and married twins twice come on this is a country song she okay yeah she's we'll find out okay for the lamb sentencing here Dolores is sentenced to you ma'am may fuck off 60 days in the county jail, not much. Jerome is sentenced to eight years in the state

by the century. This isn't his first Russell, that's why. He's been rustling for years now. They take this shit serious too. Yeah, now Dolores planned to marry a different guy she found, I don't know where they're finding all these people. She was planning on getting out, marrying him

when she got done with her sentence, but he took off to Montana to Russell Samore, I'm sure, a different guy. They're all wild up there, James. Very feral men. Very feral. So now Jerry's in jail, Darlene's in jail, and Dolores gets out pretty quick. Twin number one gets out pretty quick. So Darlene, twin number two, is in the Springfield Correctional Facility on the arson conviction. 50 years. 50 years. While incarcerated, she befriends Gail Baskin, who is another inmate at the prison,

who is pretty notorious and serving time on a manslaughter charge for the death of her foster child. Jesus. Yeah. Um, she was mentally, you know, about the same range as Dolores, the foster child, and deaf and unable to speak, deaf and mute. Oh my god. This child. And, uh, yeah, apparently she had told the coroners that he died from an epileptic seizure, but they showed bruises all over this girl's body and everywhere and they

the baby was deaf and mute yes the foster child wasn't a baby it was it was like a 12 year old but oh my god she murdered her deaf mute 12 year old this gale baskin fucked up foster child too these are nuts yeah it's probably gotta be carol's. Maybe a twin, maybe identical, we're not sure. I would not be surprised. So this is a foster child too. You didn't have to bring that child in. It's not like, oh my god, I'm stuck with such a bird and it came out of me. It didn't even come out of you.

Give it to somebody else. Give the child to somebody else that might take care of it. So anyway, in prison here, Darlene tells Baskin, figures I can trust this sick lady here, sick bitch over here, that Walter had not died of natural causes but had been murdered by me and my cohorts. Because I'm a badass too. Yeah, so Baskin through third parties contacts Robert Overturf, a special agent for the Division of Criminal Investigation in South Dakota. Baskin tells this agent, Overturf, she had information concerning this murder that happened,

so they meet with Baskin and then they go, we gotta meet this Darlene lady, holy shit. So they take Darlene in to interview her, the cops do. She requests that Baskin be present. She doesn't even realize that she's only here because her friend told on her. Yeah. So at her insistence, they went to jail and got Baskin out. Yeah, fine. She'll sit here. Once she arrived, they turned the tape recorder on, and they mirandized her, and Darlene waived her rights to this whole thing. She said, he kept asking her whether she wanted an attorney, and she responded by asking if an attorney was present.

They said, do you want an attorney? She said, is there an attorney here right now? And he said, do you think Baskin's a fucking attorney? We're not attorneys, so no. They're not bright, these girls, at all. No shit. These ladies are not very bright. And Phillips then asked how soon she could get an attorney.

And he replied that he couldn't get her one right away, and if she wanted an attorney, we'd end it, take you back to the jail, and then we'll get you an attorney and we'll do this again. So at that time, the agent he overended the interview, left the room to call the attorney general's office to get a public defender. The other agent there remained in the room with the two ladies. Agent Overturf returns to the room and then now Darlene says, I want to make a statement. So they turn the tape recorder back on.

So we don't know what this guy said in the interim tour and remorandized her. This time she said that, okay, she said she would, I'll give them a statement without an attorney. It's okay. She says, and she stated that she hadn't been forced or coerced into making the statement on the tape recorder and all that. She says in the morning of April 1st, Dolores told Robin to take the dogs for a walk. Go take the dogs for a walk. After Robin left, Darlene got a pillow from her bedroom and gave it to Jerry. She said Dolores sat at the kitchen table, which is about 17 feet from Gibs' bed, from Walter's bed. She didn't move, didn't do anything, Dolores. She just sat there. Darlene held Walter's arms down while didn't move, didn't do anything, Dolores. She just sat there. Darlene held Walter's arms down while Jerry smothered him.

Oh boy. That's fucking cold-blooded, man. Oh shit. You don't just die quietly, because you're old. You don't just go, oh, I'm going to die soon anyway. And then you just, two seconds, you go limp. Like, it's still a man fighting for his life. This is horrible.

She kept him from being able to claw back. Wow. Yep. And they said that Darlene was sitting at the kitchen table or Dolores was sitting at the kitchen table the whole time so twin two held down the arms twin one at the table here. Jerry removed the pillow and Dolores went over and hugged him. We don't know why whether she was was sad, happy, we have no idea. So she says, Darlene says she's been given Walter sleeping pills. Before that, she held his arms down, placed a pillow on his face and all that kind of stuff. So Dolores, they bring her in and she admits the pillow test.

She said, we did do a test with the pillow. She said, but I was at the table. I didn't do anything with the murder and I didn't know it was going to happen even though they had, they had done that. Um, she said, Dolores tells the investigators she did agree to give Jerome money to buy a farm after Walter was dead. I did agree to pay the hitman, but I didn't know what was going on. I paid the service fees. Wow. So Robin, they talked to Robin, the kids, the only person here you could probably trust for anything. Yeah, the only one that's got any sort of legitimacy.

Yeah, she says that morning, her aunt and mother had argued with Jerome, and she says that she never witnessed any physical displays of violence in the house that they shared here. She called Walter Uncle Walter, by the way. Oh boy, yeah. She said he was like a grandfather to her.

She said that her mother and aunt argued with Jerome, but she didn't perceive that they feared him at all. She said that, Robin said she wasn't afraid of him, even though he had threatened to spank her at one point, and required her to wear long-sleeved blouses and long dresses. Dress like your're Amish. Yeah, like a man born in 1903.

Yeah, no, not Walter. Oh. Jerome. Jerome told her that? Yes, this is all about Jerome saying they weren't her. What the hell? Because they're going to say later, the ladies are going to say we were afraid of Jerry.

Jerry made us do this. Okay. So they were asking the girl, the young girl. Yeah, were you afraid of him? She said. Was Jerry terrorizing the house? And she said, he made me wear long sleeves sleeves but other than that, no biggie. Spanked me once but everything's good.

Yep. She said though she couldn't remember if it was her mother or her aunt who told her to walk the dogs. So May 6, 1991, after 13 months in the ground, we pull Walter out of the ground. Oh, god damn it. Autopsy found white pellets in his stomach. Toxicology results identified that as, ooh, oof, diphenhydramine, which is- What the fuck is that? Sleeping pills, active ingredient in sleeping pills.

And they said finding those pills ended up being the forensic proof that this murder did occur, because it follows what she said. The manner of death was changed to homicide, and they officially charge everybody in the house but Robin. Oh, boy. All officially charged with murder, first degree murder. The police chief, by the way, after this,

they interviewed him about the twins. He said, the twins tell me I'm like a brother to them. I don't know why, I guess, because I've arrested them several times. Because we spend more time together than family. You're the nicest person we know. So they talk to Jerome. Jerome flips.

Jerry flips on the twins. Oh yeah, he's going to testify against them. He's going to plead to conspiracy to commit second degree murder and testify against both the twins here. Yeah, he said, no problem, happy to do it. So he said that Dolores said we wouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out into the street if Walter died, which they wouldn't have anyway because the house was going to her.

So, yeah, apparently people around town, the sheriff said, quote, we've kept it quiet quiet I don't think a lot of people around here know much about it. Well, that's a town of 1200 people They don't know about the murder. Yeah That's ridiculous here. So they have a joint trial twins having a joint trial Sitting right next to that is fantastic. That's hilarious. So which one Somebody on the jury was confused, right? There's no way they kept it straight the whole time. Darlene, Dolores, both guilty I guess, right? That's all you'd have to say, but a jury of 10 women

and four men, two are gonna be alternates here, the trial was moved because no one talked about it, apparently. Because nobody's heard of it. Jesus, so Jerry testifies, he testifies that he and Dolores had been lovers and he still loved her even though he's married to her sister. Jesus. Who I also still love, he said. He said the whole thing developed mid-March with the test of the pillow with Darlene acting as Walter. He said that, you

know, we wouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out He said that he put a pillow over Gibbs his face because he felt sorry for Walter and didn't want to see him suffer That's sorry that he was murdering him or felt sorry. Yeah the situation of his life He just felt sorry that he was killing him. He said which I had it doesn't sound like Walter. That doesn't sound like Jerome I mean that sounds like somebody nice. So Dolores's defense is that she's a moron. That's her defense. I'm too dumb to understand death and murder. Literally too dumb. The Pedro Guerrero defense, which you know that is, it's a baseball player who got caught with a bunch of financial stuff. And in court, he said, his lawyer said he didn't even, he was too dumb to tie his shoes so how could he do this.

So during the defense she called up Carol Picard who's the director of the Career Learning Center in Rapid City, South Dakota and this Picard testified that Christiansen, this is Dolores, read and performed math at a second grade level and was probably not intelligent enough to conspire anything with anybody basically. So when they cross-examined her they found out she had an IQ of 74 which falls into the lowest four percent of human beings. Bottom five percent of brightness of, yeah. So then there was a rebuttal witness here, the state calls a counselor and psychotherapist who performed a psychological evaluation on Jerome. They concluded his IQ was 88 and that he was upset and crying for help and that he had a number of depressive symptoms and that he was a very dependent individual with very

low self-esteem. Poor Jerome. Poor guy. with very low self-esteem. Oh poor Jerome. Oh poor guy. You got low self-esteem. Stop killing old people you dumb fuck. That'll do it. He's also got, I don't know what one point or what ten points is going to do for somebody but I don't know what, what, 86?

That's a big ten points. Is that a lot? 88, 74 to 88 is a big difference. It's a big jump? It's a big 10 points. Is that a lot? 88, 74 to 88 is a big difference. It's a big jump? It's a big jump in that area, yeah. It's not a huge jump, but it's not, I think if it was like 130 to fucking 144, I don't know how big of a jump that is,

but this is a huge one, I think, in this area. This is the difference between turning on the hot or the cold water and hurting yourself. Yes. So they also got Dolores to shrink in there. Steven Manlove is his name. Poor guy. He found Dolores to be competent and sane, but he also found evidence of limited intellectual functioning and a personality disorder. He said she has a

histrionic personality disorder. Individuals with this are reliant on those around them for their self-esteem. She is reliant on others for her self-esteem. The people around her would have a greater effect than average on her ability to exercise independent thought and choice at the time of the crime. Her disorder renders her more susceptible to coercion by others. She's dumb and it makes her easily convinced of self. Very gullible, yeah. They said she's in the borderline retarded range for intellectual functioning. So in closing, the prosecutor said here that the sisters persuaded this guy to change his fucking will and then had this big guy put a pillow over his face. He said one held his arms down and the other quote, sat in the kitchen while Jerome and

Darlene went into the living room and did this. So everybody's guilty. Dolores's lawyer says a mere association with others doesn't make her a conspirator. A mere association. Then went over her IQ and her second grade ability and everything like that. Also reported that Dolores told the jury that Dolores basically, you know, she's simple and easily guided,

and this guy over here, Jerome, is a big guy. He intimidates her. He then called Jerome a jerk in a windbag. This jerk. Fucking windbag. Windbag who controlled the household money. He called his stories ludicrous including a claim that he had lightly placed a pillow over Gibbs's face Applying only enough oxygen to cut off his and only enough force to cut off his oxygen Still that's too much force

He said if you believe that then he's then Jerome is the quote, fat Freda Stare of killers. Fat Freda Stare, he called him. What does that mean? It means he's light on his feet, but he's fat. Fat Freda Stare, who was graceful enough to pull off such a delicate maneuver. Just a little bit. Oh my God. He also said, it's time to wind this up and send my client home.

And he said that Mr. Phillips would not, that's Jerome, Jerome would not recognize the truth if it reached up and bit him. So verdict comes in, the jury deliberates for five hours. Darlene up first and she is found guilty of murder. First degree murder, yeah. Dolores up next, I guess they did an alphabetical order. She is found not guilty. What? Not fucking guilty of anything. Anything. They found her too dumb to do shit. I mean, the sister held his hands down. He just, she just sat at the table. So yeah, but she was involved in the plan. She was there. She was a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't say, hey, don't suffocate him.

Yeah, she didn't stop him. So they didn't buy arguments from the prosecution that she was an integral part of the conspiracy plot. Her own attorney said innocence is a relative word, obviously. He said that after the ruling. Yeah. But she wasn't guilty of what she was charged with.

Let's say that. They just charged her wrong. That's her own attorney saying that. They fucked up. Turing sentencing Darlene, they said, anything to say for yourself? She said, I'm not guilty, sir, and then started crying.

Oh boy. The judge says, you ma'am may fuck off life without parole. Yeah, you can't say what you just said. Nope, and she was already in for 50 anyway. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Jerome said when he went to do his sentencing, he said that he had been emotionally

and spiritually bankrupt. Yeah, I don't think Dolores could put that phrase together. And he said, please don't give me a long sentence so I can become a productive citizen. He said he planned to go to Bible college and become a teen counselor. No stay away from teens. The judge said I knew Walter Gibbs in his lifetime. Oh shit.

Oh no. And he was a gentle soul. To snuff out his life is a despicable act to say the least. The least. I'm going to punish you for taking him away from the face of the earth. I would feel I would have to resign my position as judge if I didn't give you you sir may fuck off the full 50 years Holy is that that's gonna get turned over on appeal right? That's a didn't know nope

Absolutely not and his attorney said there's no question that the facts of this case are as bizarre as any I've seen in 17 years. I've never heard of that. I'm with you, bro. And we're going to do this show. 1991 in October, after all this, there's a ruling on the estate. And they say, Dolores, you can't have that shit. And it goes to his cousin.

They called her a will. Even though she's not convicted, it's a different burden of proof in this situation. And they call her a quote, even though she's not convicted, it's a different burden of proof in this situation and they call her a quote, willful slayer, which is an official term, which means even though, yeah, I guess that's what OJ was too in the civil case or whatever. So they decide that yeah, not going to work. It's not hers. Yeah. 1992 Darlene appeals and the high court or the Supreme court of South Dakota rules unanimously

that she received a fair trial and she can keep on fucking off. Two in prison, Dolores out on the street with her daughter. What the fuck? That's as crazy a story as we've ever told, I think. I hope Robin's okay, jeez, she's not. If I told everyone I made that up, you'd go, okay, that makes sense.

Of course you did, yeah. But I'm not that creative, I didn't make that up. That's fucking bonkers. It's unbelievable. Tweedle green, tweedle dumb, or murderers. Yes, so please get on whatever app you listen on. Give us a review, because that shit's crazy. To give us five stars and say something nice about the show, shutupandgivemurder.com is the site.

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