Small Town Murder - #51 - A Murderous Pact Unravels in Newport, Oregon

Episode Date: January 3, 2018

This week, we look at the festive beach town of Newport, Oregon, where a disappearance goes unsolved for years, before the violent story begins to come apart, and reveal the horrible truth. Along the way, we find out about Oysters, a horrible serial killer, also from the area, and exactly how long three people can keep a secret!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the festive beach town of Newport, Oregon, where the secrets of a brutal murder were kept hidden for years. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Ah, yay indeed, Jimmy. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. It's been a rough week, man.

Thank you, guys. It's been a crazy week. We're recording the day of January 30th, or December 30th, the day before New Year's Eve. So we're all recovering from holidays and everything else out there. Thank you, folks, so much. Hope you enjoyed last week and over the holidays. I sure the hell did. We don't believe in weeks off. A lot of your podcasts, you might notice, you're like, where are they last week?

Because they didn't appear because they took the week off. We don't do that. Sorry. We know that a lot of you won't listen that week because you're doing other things, and that's fine, but some of you are going to need it. Some of you are going to need it more than ever, and we're going to be there for you. Because you got grandma in the house. That's right, because you got grandma, and my grandmother was in my house, and grandma

was there, and I got some stories later on I'll tell you because, oh boy, she was in rare form this week, man. Wow. I will tell you. Oh, boy, she was in rare form this week, man. Wow. I will tell you something. Head over to, by the way, you should do, no segue from Grandma, but right to this. Grandma, what Grandma should do, what I should have told her. Listen, Grandma, you need to head over to crimeandsports.threadless.com to get all of your small town murder merchandise. That's what I should have told her.

Get on over there. of your small town murder merchandise. That's what I should have told her. Get on over there. Everything, hats and mugs and shirts and sweatshirts and bags with all the sayings and everything that you find amusing or hopefully do. Phoenix, Arizona, March 25th at Stand Up Live. Get those tickets. There's links in the show description to all of this.

Those are selling like crazy, by the way. So thank you guys so much. Thank you. And get those quick because like we said, that's our hometown. So we know a lot of people. We have friends and family and a lot of people are going to hog some tickets up. So get those now so you don't lose out. But there's people coming from all over. We have friends coming from Seattle, man.

It's pretty cool. From Portland. Yeah. Thank you guys for that. Bananas. It's going to be awesome. Also, thank you guys this week for your outpouring of iTunes reviews. We went over 8,000 iTunes reviews. That's fucking bananas, James. Which is crazy. And 50 episodes, 8,000. That's ridiculous. We're pretty proud of that. We're proud that you guys would give a shit enough to do that.

We've culled enough people that care enough to do that. So thank you, guys. We really do appreciate that. If you haven't done it yet, please go over to iTunes. Give us five stars. We've said it a million times. They have a funky algorithm. It's ridiculous.

How they do their charts and everything else. It's their dance in a jig. It's ridiculous. So on the business end, it's a great way to help us go up the charts. Five stars. Doesn't matter what you say. It's not for our ego. It isn't.

Who cares? And if you need to do more than that, like we have a list of people later that are just incredible and that have contributed to the show. And you guys, thank you guys so much. That's our lifeblood. It keeps us going and it really means the world to us. Every penny is so appreciated. You can make a donation at patreon.com slash crimeinsports.

That's the one. And Patreon went back on all their craziness. They walked that shit back fast. Never mind. So they're okay again. Well, give them their money. It's fine. That's fine.

Or you can go over to PayPal and use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. And you can make a donation there. A one-time donation. Every cent, like we said, is incredibly appreciated. We're just blown away by any type of support by anybody. So if you give us a dime, we're like, holy, wow, that's amazing. People have done it. They have done it.

Somebody, I think, sent us a nickel. And we're like, cool. I'll take it. Thank you a nickel we'd be you know that'd be great so we'll only do one show thank you yeah you'd end up doing more shows because i'd feel guilty i made more shows you gotta come to the studio again we'd have a third show you're like oh god you're gonna have no no you'll i'll do it speaking of a third show Speaking of a third show. Speaking of a third show. Yeah, we'll be here. Also, if you like me ranting and being upset at things, you can listen to P.S. I Hate This Movie. You can. Which is another podcast we're redoing, myself and my wife, Sarah, who's hilarious, where we make fun of bad romantic comedies and kind of mock them.

And it's not like a live watch or anything like that, but we take notes. It's like this, but with a bad romantic comedy. It's not going to be like me and The Wire. No, no, no. We've seen it and we make fun of it. It's a really good time. So check that out. P.S. I hate this movie.

Coming back out in about two weeks here. But never mind all that stuff. All right. We have to do the disclaimer. And we have to do it because we had a problem. Did we? We did not do it during the live show. Right.

Which is fine because when we're doing it there it's like these people all pay money to be here right they know what we're doing and this is going to be great but i forgot yeah we're gonna we're gonna broadcast it out to everybody so we should have probably done it because the one week that i didn't do it yeah and it's been 51 weeks the one goddamn week i forget to do it we got emails did we we got emails saying how dare you guys make jokes when there's murder involved? And how dare you do a comedy show? Just the basic.

This is a comedy podcast. It is. The facts are real. The research is real. We don't make it, you know, bend anything to make it more entertaining or anything like that. But we're stand-up comics. We're going to make jokes.

What we're not going to make jokes about is the victims or the victim's family. We try not to do that by all, you know, humanly possible. I mean, we do our best. We are assholes, but we're not going to make jokes about is the victims or the victim's family. We try not to do that by all, you know, humanly possible. I mean, we do our best. We are assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's true. So that's what it is. It's not that bad. But if you don't like, it's true.

It's not like we're. Why does every time you say that, it's not that bad? We're not sitting here like making fun of dead babies. And that's what people think. And that's not what we're doing at all. We try to be respectful, but we make jokes about murderers and small towns and bumbling police forces and things like that because that's where comedy is funny i don't i'd rather hear that than and then his head was sliced from his shoulders i don't want to hear it like that that's a lot of people

do that's great go listen to dateline dateline's on every fucking week but this is different go find nutsack face fucking Keith Holt. What's his name? Who knows? I'm mixing the two up. Keith Morrison. Forget all of that stuff. Forget all of everybody named Morrison.

It doesn't matter. Because I know what you're saying right now. You're saying, shut up and give me murder. Give me murder, James. And that's what we're going to do. All right. What do you say? All right.

Let's go on a trip. Yes. Shall we? Let's go on a little trip. From South Carolina. South Carolina. This is going to be a long trip. So it's going to be, we're going to get on a plane for this one. Really? All on a trip. Yes. Shall we? Let's go on a little trip. From South Carolina. South Carolina. This is going to be a long trip.

So it's going to be, we're going to get on a plane for this one. Really? All the way across the country. Oh, we've got a fucking connecting flight. Load up. I got us a nonstop here, but then we're going to have to drive. We've got to rent a car because it's out there. Small town. We're going to Newport, Oregon.

Oh, okay. So all the way from the one coast to the other. Same sticky. It's just a different sticky. This is a weird. It's not warm here, though. Like in the average temperatures in the summer, like 64 degrees. Oh, really?

And the average highs in the winter is like 58 degrees. Okay. It's like England over here. It's just like always rainy and cold. Always awful. Kind of. Yes. And this is a beach town there.

Okay. Newport, Oregon. It's in the northwest part of Oregon, right on the coast. It's a beach town. It's two and a half hours to Portland. There's a shitload of Newports. There's a lot of Newports. How many of these towns?

Every time they open a Newport, they're like, this one's the newest. This is now Newport. Well, if you're not touching the Atlantic Ocean, you're named after a town that is touching the Atlantic Ocean. That's just the way it is. Every town is named after this town that the founder was from. They just show up and they're like, yeah, I'll name this after a town that is touching the Atlantic Ocean. That's just the way it is. Every town is like, it was named after this town that the founder was from. They just show up and they're like, yeah, I'll name this after my town. That'll do. No creativity whatsoever.

I have so many great memories from that place. Let's just name this one that. This will be in Newport also. This is fine. Why? Why are you doing this? Canton, Ohio. Canton, Missouri.

I like Canton, Ohio. So strange, man. There's only seven people that like Canton, Ohio. Yes, Missouri. I like Canton, Ohio. So strange, man. There's like seven people that like Canton, Ohio. Yes, yes. And then every football player ever loves it. They're just like, that Hall of Fame is awesome. Outside of that. That's it, man.

It gives a shit. Lawrence Taylor wandering around. He's always entertaining. He is. Lawrence Taylor running around trying to. Cocaine falling out of his pockets. Yeah, trying to round up prostitutes. Checking IDs now, though.

I guarantee it. Yeah, he's definitely checking IDs. It's an hour and a half to Salem. Okay. So it's in the middle of kind of, it's a bunch of towns on the coast, but they're not big towns. It's odd because there's no, like, San Francisco here. And we'll talk about it in a little bit here that they had dreams of it being like that at one point. But there's no like big coastal city that this is.

This is kind of just an area of kind of small little beach towns. It's in Lincoln County. Zip code 97365. Area code 541. It's about 10 and a half square miles. About nine of those are land. And then as we know, they kind of go out from the ocean. It's always funny. Beach communities to me that have like shit weather like this.

It's like, it's beach community, but you're in jeans and a sweatshirt. Yes. That's one of those beaches, which I prefer. Do you? I like that. Yeah. I hate the sun. I sit in the sun and the heat and get out of here.

I like it cloudy. I don't like bocce ball beaches. Fuck that. No, thank you. Give me a sweatshirt. I'm not. I don't like hotcce ball beaches. Fuck that. No, thank you. Give me a sweatshirt. I don't like hot or cold. See, that's my thing. I don't like it to be hot or cold.

I'm awful with weather. 65, James is in. That's 65 to about 74. And then outside of that, I'm going to complain. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to be very upset with everything. I need a little humidity, but not too much. Yeah, I'm like an old lady who's got a humidifier set up, although I don't do any of that. upset with everything. I need a little humidity, but not too much.

I'm like an old lady who's got a humidifier set up, although I don't do any of that. I should because I'm very particular. James has got a netty pot, shit like that. I should, man. That's what I gotta do. When I'm old, I'm gonna be awful. I'm gonna have shit set up. You're gonna walk in my house like, the hell's going on? There's machines going off, steam coming from here,

wind coming from here, air conditioning and heat on at the same time. Storm systems forming in the corner of the room. Although I'm kind of similar because in the wintertime here where – I'm freezing. It's been 65. I'll roll my windows down and then crank my heater on in my car and just drive down the road like that. At night it's 50 degrees.

I'm freezing. In the day it's like 78 and I'm like, it's hot out. It's too sunny. I will not be pleased, it's hot out. It's too sunny. I will not be pleased when it comes to weather. This town has several slogans. Oh, great. Several. They cannot decide.

Somebody needs to hire a marketing team and pick one. Or loan some of these to other towns. That don't have one, exactly. Some of your motto deficient towns. Number one that I see is right on their website, right up front, is just, quote, the friendliest. Oh. That's their Wikipedia page. That's not very creative at all.

The friendliest. So it's the friendliest. Another one that I think is, this one's kind of condescending, and I don't like it. You condescended. And I don't like it. I don't like it. Quote, they're your vacation days. Do something new.

Oh. That sounds like a challenge. It does. What I'm doing isn't good enough for you? Sounds like a dare. Yeah. I'm fine with what I do on my vacation days. They're your vacation days. Do something new. Oh. That sounds like a challenge. It does. What I'm doing isn't good enough for you? Sounds like a dare. Yeah. I'm fine with what I do on my vacation days. They're your vacation days.

Do something new, pussy. Like, no. I'm fine. I'm happy. What are you attacking me for? I just barked again. I just, before I tried so hard to. It's annoying, though, man.

Yeah. The other one here, quote, the coast you remember. Okay. What? That's just. Which one's forgettable? That's very, quote, the coast you remember. Okay. Which one's forgettable? That's very just seems like someone came up with that. They're like, yeah, yeah, write that one down too. That's fine. Like Bob doesn't get a lot of his ideas taken and they're like, just take Bob,

just put it up somewhere on the site. We'll put it in the hat and we'll draw. We'll see which one comes out. We'll put it on one of the signs into town. It's fine. Just don't worry about it. And the other one, quote, Newport, Oregon, the Dungeness Crab Capital of the World. I'm in. Of the world. I like it.

So this sounds like my kind of town. There's crab, except the fact they're challenging me on my vacation. I don't like that. And also, take it easy. I think that, isn't that Baltimore or somewhere near Maryland that's Dungeness Crab stuff? They also, aren't they the blue crabs? I don't know. I think they're blue crabs down there. I'm stupid. They might be the most... Aren't they the blue crabs? I don't know. I think they're blue crabs down there.

Probably. I'm stupid. They might be, though. What the hell do I know? I don't know. It's just... It's crab. You don't get to claim any crab if you got Maryland in the fucking...

That's true. In the running also. That's true. I mean, Maine has lobsters. I don't know if they have crabs, too. There's crabs everywhere. There really is. I don't know.

They've got a TV show for it. We'll see. Yeah, that's true. It's not involving this town at all. It has nothing to do with this. People started coming here. Obviously, it was occupied before that. The Native Americans were there. But as early as back

in 1856, people would come here. There was basically big ships that would come to supply the military garrisons there. Wherever we found anything, we're like, okay, first put the army there, and then we'll figure out what we're doing protect this shit first yeah they discovered the uh oyster beds in 1862 oh i'm in so that was a big deal once they got

oysters and crabs there i'm liking this place sounds awesome uh yeah so they would uh export these to san francisco and other cities but san fran was the big nearest city that they could make some dough off of exporting these oysters. Meanwhile, they've got the Fisherman's Wharf. They don't need your fucking seafood. Apparently, they hadn't discovered their oyster beds yet. I don't know what happened, but they were pumping them out. San Francisco's killing it in fucking seafood.

I promise you. Oh, it's so good. I know. It's amazing. The Fisherman's Wharf, and they just shuck it right there. I eat oysters until I'm sick. Raw oysters and raw clams. So many lemons.

It's incredible. Cocktail sauce all over. Shit, yeah. So there's a celebration that happened in 1866 on the 4th of July. And this is, I find amusing here. They got 400 people together. Yeah. This Newport at that point is like a lumber and fishing village.

That's all it is. Now it's a vacation and lumber and fishing village. But's all it is. Now it's a vacation and lumber and fishing village. But back then it was just that. This is the 90th Fourth of July celebration, 90th celebration of- They couldn't wait 10 years. Somebody was about to die. That's what happened. They're going to have a big party.

Now, what ended up happening too is- Somebody wasn't making it to 100. That's my point. We got to make it a big deal at 90 because he's clearly not going to make it to 92. Not at all. Local tribesmen, about 300 of them, came to watch. Tribesmen? Tribesmen.

From the tribes in the area, not white people here. They watched a bunch of guys. They raised the American flag in the middle of the town and then started praying. Imagine these poor Indians. That's their celebration? Yeah, they raised at the end.

Well, that's terrible, too. I didn't hear of anybody getting, like, you know, boozed up and blowing a hand off with some fireworks or anything like that. This is garbage. Raise the flag and pray? This is very early white trash. They hadn't figured it out yet. They hadn't figured it out yet. Imagine these poor Indians are watching this ceremony going, oh, shit, this isn't good.

I've heard about this. No, I've heard about it. When white people start putting flags up, that's when it's trouble. And they all bow their head and shit. We're all going to die. Flags were like the cupcake shop of the 1800s. If you saw a flag going up, you know the neighborhood's fucked and you're going to have to leave because you're not going to be able to afford it soon. That's it. Today's vape shop.

It is. That's exactly right, man. So, yeah, they had a big, they had, you know, a huge feast afterwards. And they all said that this is going to be the San Francisco of Oregon. Oh, boy. Calm the fuck down. Whoopsie-daisy. Everybody relax.

Relax. San Francisco's a bit too close for you guys to be claiming to be that. Yeah, let's chill out on the San Francisco of Oregon. We don't say we're L.A. of Arizona. And we would never dare. We got oysters. We're the San Francisco of Oregon. We don't say we're L.A. of Arizona. And we would never dare. We got oysters. We're now San Francisco. Okay?

We got a flag and oysters and some lumber. So everybody fucking pony up. Let's go. San Francisco. People will be coming. No gold, mind you, which is why San Francisco turned into San Francisco. We don't have that. But there's oysters.

That's amazing. They're going to be coming from the mountains with their mining equipment for oysters now with their big pickaxes hitting the little shells and everything. We got black, smelly gold here. Get over here. Get over here. Come on. You can do it.

Black, smelly gold. Come on, guys. Everybody. That's so gross. Everybody. During World War I, this area was home to the largest spruce mill in the world, which around here was a town called Toledo. Yeah.

And that's where the wood from the spruce goose from Howard Hughes' plane came from. Yeah, it was from this area. Wait, hold on. Howard Hughes' plane was fucking wood? Yeah, the spruce goose was wood. Wait, what? A lot of it was wood. I didn't know that.

I don't think all of it was wood. Maybe it was. I'm blown away right now. I didn't know you could make wood fly. Yeah, you can make wood fly. That's crazy. We made planes out of it before we had, we think they were pounding out aluminum. The Wright brothers were like, we're getting some nice aluminum sheets.

I've seen the Enola Gay. That shit is all aluminum. That's amazing. I feel like, no, no, no. You'd see things blow up in like old footage. You'd see them blow up and there'd just be wood panels flying everywhere, like fluttering to the ground. I thought that was aluminum. I don't know.

Maybe. How the hell do we know about planes? I didn't know his tree was made of spruce. That's crazy. This is small town murder, not small town aviation. That's true. I have no idea about any of this. I didn't study it, quite frankly.

We should start that one, though. We'll get some goggles and a white scarf and some flight suits, and we'll figure out what ... We should. We'll bore the pants off of people. That's what we need to do. No, you don't want that, so you're better off with this. Let's stick with murder.

Let's do it. So they got over $1 million from the federal government. Out of the $5 million they needed to build a bunch of bridges on the Oregon coast in the 1930s. And these were like works projects from the Depression. But the bridges are still there, and they're pretty useful, honestly. You don't want to go over water. They're falling apart. But, I mean, it's useful to have a bridge at all.

Have you driven any of those bridges up there? No. They are fucking terrifying. Oh, I'm sure they are. 100% terrifying. This is the Yaquina Bay Bridge. It's opened on October 3rd, 1936. That's the big one up there.

It spans south of Newport, Oregon all the way through. It's known as the most recognizable of the bridges on Route 101. Okay. Here, it's 3,200 feet long, so over a half mile, and 133 feet high. Holy shit. So pretty high up there. See what I'm saying? That's terrifying to me.

I hate bridges. I've said it before. They scare the fucking bejesus out of me. No, they're awful. And when they're that big and that long, I want nothing to do with that. Yeah, well, there's bridges in this story, too. We'll talk about that. The problem is you have to take that at some point if you live up there.

Oh, yeah, if you want to get battery, you go all the way around Inland, which is going to take forever. 3,200 feet of fucking anxiety. That's all it is. White knuckle. 3,200 feet of white knuckle. Notable people from this town. Bunch of people I've never heard of.

A bunch of mechanical engineers. We don't know these fucking people. We don't even know what planes are made out of. We know nothing. You don't know any mechanical engineers are from Phoenix? Who knows? Why is that a guy? And somebody we do know, Randall Woodfield.

Get it. Oh, the fucking I-5 killer. The I-5 killer, a serial killer who was episode 54 of Crime and Sports, our other podcast, and we went up his ass with a microscope, and there's like five minutes of sports, so listen to that one. Serial killing and us making fun of him. But he is from this area also. He's from this town.

So that's illustrious alumni for this town. That's fucking royalty. That's royalty there. People in this town, 10,268 population right now, which is up 22% since 1990. So people like all the West Coast towns, people are moving there. Well, they heard about Randall Woodfield. Yeah, they're like, oh, high five killer. I can get raped and murdered? Sounds great. I think I'm going to go there. Br, they heard about Randall Woodfield. Yeah, they're like, oh, I-5 killer. I can get raped and murdered?

Sounds great. I think I'm going to go there. Brutally murdered? Awesome. So median age here in Oregon is a killery state, too. It's known as like the hotbed of serial killing and serial killers, and they breed them there. Musicians that kill themselves. That's true.

Well, that's West Washington. Right, right. Whatever. Pacific Northwest. We called inland South Carolina the devil's taint of racism. Last week, this is the you know, this is so progressive up there. Yet fucking they they just breed murderers. This is the devil's taint of serial. Yeah, it is really great from here.

Median age here. Forty three point six, which is about six years older than the average. Yeah. And it's old and young. And it's an odd it's an odd mix. These beach towns are an odd mix because it's touristy, and then there's, like, you know, fishermen and lumberjacks and shit. It's a weird place here. More females than males, about 53.5% female, which is, you know, pretty 2% higher.

It's a little out of whack. A few more married people and single people, but generally's kind of uh in the ballpark of normal uh married with no children though is 50 of the population yeah married but don't have any kids that's crazy which is way higher than the average and that's a strange thing so i'm thinking that's probably people in their 50s 60s maybe or i don't know if they count children if it's just children in the home or do you have offspring somewhere it's i don't know what's the what the question is but that's today that would be today it could be uh i mean there's a lot of there's a lot of gay people up there you know what i mean i don't think they can get married that's true but it's not enough to fuck the fuck the gay people are like one and a

half percent of the population or three percent of the i think it's more like eight but are all of them up there if we're being realistic. But 3% that admit to being gay. And then you have, you know, the rest are, you know, Republicans that are in the closet. Sorry, Republicans. That's a joke. That's a joke. It's only because you guys, when you are gay, are not that forward about it.

You're clearly hiding it. Yes. Because it'll damage. Not saying if you're a Republican, you're gay. But if you're a Republican and you're gay you're going to nudge people under a bathroom stall. Right. That's how it works. That's going to be your way of going about it for a while. But anyway. Because you don't want to ruin your wife

and your children's lives. That's the thing. You're trying to be. Yes exactly. You got in over your head let's say. So now you're trying to get in over your head. Right. Down to the shaft. Race of this town. Sorry. Good lord. Nothing. We love gay people. Race of this town. Sorry. Good Lord. Nothing.

We love gay people. We have nothing against gay people. We have a lot of gay listeners. Lesbians love us. This is fucking bananas. Hi, lesbians. Hello. It's fantastic to have you. We figured lesbians would hate us, actually.

We'd be the reason they're lesbians. Or at least they go, do you all see why we're lesbians? Maybe that's what it is. We're just exempt. They listen as reassurance, going, yes't lie i don't like men at all both of you so uh and we know that you're probably nobody you didn't become gay no we get we're not saying that it's a joke clearly clearly so race of this town yeah that's 79 white uh just a little over the average here uh black about less than a percent 0.8 0.8 black asian which west coast there are asians yeah there's 1.98 asian not even one percent

asian in this place which is odd i expect more and uh especially with all the seafood that's what yeah they'd be making things out of it no problem problem. That's another, sorry, that's my Andrew Jackson moment of the week. We've had two of them here. So, Hispanic, about 11.5% Hispanic, which is actually getting close to the average anyway. So a little weird there. Religion in this town, 21% of the people are religious. That's a fucking huge number. That's a huge number for that area, though.

But 50% is average. This is the lowest we've ever had, 21%. Yeah, I like this. This is good. I'm a heathen. This is my kind of place. Yeah. So, yeah, some Catholics, a few Mormons there, that sort of thing.

0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim. It is a small town, after all. Now, politically, it's about 58 percent Democrat, about 37 percent Republican, about four percent independent, which is more independent than normal, which is I don't know. This is the kind of place like Abraham Lincoln would have retired in. So you chop some shit down and make a cabin out of it. Yeah. You just went with the lumber thing. You just picture that anywhere where there's logs. I think Lincoln would like this place.

You'd just be like, this is my, change his name to Vapor Ham Lincoln or something. You know, there's a shop there called Vapor Ham Lincoln's with a neon sign of Lincoln's head with smoke coming out of it when he opens his mouth. You know, that exists somewhere in this town on the beach and on the strip there. Unemployment rates about normal here. Income, though. Household income is a little lower than normal. It's about $54,000 a year is normal.

Here it's about $40,000 and a half, so $40,500 here. So it's a little lower there, which is tough because the housing is expensive, as we'll get into in a second here. The cost of living, as we talk uh 100 being average yeah uh was 112 here okay so it's a little bit high uh health care's high uh you know beach community transportation all that sort of thing but housing is a 127 holy shit that's high and for a median income that's kind of low it's it's kind of one of those towns where you kind of have it seems like to me where you have townies yeah that you know live kind of away from the beach and maybe a couple of houses that have been in. They got it from their mom or their dad. And everybody on the street is pissed off at them because they don't have a Mercedes parked in their driveway.

It's maybe possibly like 70s Volvo or something. Yeah. And this guy drives like a pickup truck and goes to work at the lumber mill. And they're like this fucking scumbag. We have meetings about him driving down the property value. How can we all contribute to making that house nicer? They have meetings about him. Driving down the property value. How can we all contribute to making that house nicer? They have meetings about this poor person. Housing here, the median home

price is $236,400. So a little expensive on the housing. There are some houses, though, 20% of the houses are between $150,000 and $200,000. So see what I mean? I feel like there's a few neighborhoods in there where it's like, okay, that's where the kids and the goonies live.

And then everybody else. That's hilarious. You know what I'm saying? I feel like it's that sort of thing. I just saw that house. It's such a piece of shit. That's what I mean. I feel like that's those guys.

And then there's 15% of the houses are between $300,000 and $400,000. 10% are between $500,000 and $750,000. So then there's that kind of thing here. And if we've convinced you that there's nowhere else on earth that you would care to live than Newport, Oregon. Being honest, this place sounds amazing. It does not sound bad. I want to be there. We have for you the Newport, Oregon real estate report.

We have a two bedroom apartment there on the average. This seems like you want to rent in this kind of place. $817 a month on the average. Which is not bad. More than $200 less than the national average. Right. Which is fantastic here. We have a two-bedroom, two-bathroom house. 1,300 square feet.

A little rundown. Not going to lie to you. This is the Goonies' house. I think Chunk lives here. Okay. This is Chunk's house. This is for sale by owner. They don't want to give...

Standing on the porch. Standing on the porch. Exactly. Kids are making fun of him as they pass. $168,000. Doesn't sound awful. It's not terrible, though. You can make it.

You're going to be close to the beach. It's not bad. I have a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,800-square-foot house. Okay. Very nice house. Not bad at all. $315,000. So a little pricey on that as we're getting closer to the beach now.

And then we have one if you're going to come in and you're going to open up a cupcake shop and really lay down some gentrified roots here. You can do it with a four-bedroom, eight-bathroom, 5,000 square foot house. Holy shit. What are they shitting all day? What do you need eight bathrooms for? Well, that is one bathroom for each bedroom. Yeah.

And then four throughout the rest of the house. It's a 5,000 square foot house. That's just all bathrooms. Literal. It's a lot of bathrooms. That's crazy. It's 1,000 square feet of bathrooms. Yeah.

And this house here, $742,900. My Christ. And there's a lot of those like that in the half million and over range. Things to do. There's so much seafood in this town. You're bound to get some tainted shit. Sorry. You're going to need a lot of bathrooms.

Everyone has bathrooms. Things to do here. Whale watching. You can whale watch. That's awesome. They have the Oregon Coast Aquarium. This aquarium was home to Kiko, who was the orca from the Free Willy movie. This aquarium was home to Kiko, who was the orca from the Free Willy movie.

Kiko was there from 96 to 98 before they sent him off to Iceland. You can go to Nye Beach, which is a big beach there to hang out at and which will come into our story. Hatfield Marine Science Center is there. And also they have a really cool lighthouse. It's an old lighthouse from the 1800s. It's pretty neat. Crime rate here, what we're interested in, property crime is almost twice the national average,

which was the same in the other beach towns that we did in Maine, I believe. It was the same thing. And New Jersey, too, that beach town. By the beach, tourists, people get drunk and steal shit. I read reviews of the crime in this town. It's a lot of petty crime, vandalism, drunken people pissing in an alley, stupid shit like that.

Or transient, grabbing a hot dog off your grill while you're inside. Exactly. Some bullshit like that. Violent crime is exactly average on national average. So not terrible there for the violent crime. They will steal your shit, but probably won't murder, rape, rob, or assault you. Or they will, but just in an average amount. They're not going to go crazy.

They're not going to make a special case out of you. Now, let's talk about a fella here, some people from a nearby area that end up in this town and what happened to these people here. Let's talk about Walter Thomas Ackerson Jr. Jesus. Now, junior, as we know, is bad news right away. It's a problem if you've listened to crime and sports at all. Inordinate amount of criminal athletes are juniors. And if they're not a junior, they'll name their kid junior.

There will be a junior involved in the mix somewhere. So we're leery of any juniors. Sorry if you're named junior. We know you had nothing to do with it. This particular, Walter Ackerson, we'll just call him Walter Ackerson. It's a little shorter of a moniker than the whole middle name and junior. Yeah, it's just a bit much. Yeah, I want to give him more names, actually.

Let's give him like a title. Lord Walter Thomas Ackerson Jr. Esquire. Thank you. I needed something else on there. I'll give him six names. I think that's enough. He's born July 2nd, 1973.

Yeah. This young man here, he grows up in Washington State, this kid. He grows up in Kettle Falls, Washington, which is over in eastern Washington, which is practically Idaho. That's like, you know, that's like meth and supremacy country out there. It's like, let's look at this property. Oh, that's a Klan compound and a meth lab. A Klan compound and a meth lab. A Klan compound and a meth lab. Oh, a militia.

This is great. Wonderful. I feel like that's a lot of eastern Washington. And people that I know from Washington have told me just pure meth. Just tons of – they don't even buy, like, T-shirts. It's just like those wife beater A-shirts. You know what I mean? And that's what they wander around in.

You're like, it's 12 degrees outside. What are you doing? Yeah, my suspenders keep me warm. I'm all right. My suspenders and my wife beater. That's a look. My bright red suspenders with my white wife beater. Yeah, that's a look. You don't need those suspenders. No, it tells a story. That's what that look is. It lets you know that there was child abuse in my house. That's with the suspenders and the wife beater. That's the sign. I like it.

It's a telegraph. You see that? Watch out. Right. It's like we talked about the Nambla thing. Watch out. We won't get into that. Nambla bad people.

We were making fun of them. They're terrible. Anyway, we weren't saying like, you know, that Nambla is a fine organization. You know, James, I got my Nambla card. Did you get yours for 2018 yet? That was not it at all. That's awful. That's awful. That is awful.

So he grows up in Kettle Falls, very small town here. This could be, if there was murder here, we could do this. It's a 1,600 people small town. We're going to talk about like four different small towns. This kid is like small town royalty. Really? Just from small town to small town. He's a nice kid. He's a nice kid.

He's a tiny kid. This kid is little. What is he? Well, at one point here, we'll talk about it. He was born in 1973. Okay. When he's five years old, he's always littler than the other kids by far. Skinny kid.

I'm familiar. Yeah. Well, be very skinny, too. You're not familiar. I was. I was so skinny. I was trying to pick on you. Right up until I started drinking booze.

I'm bloated. I'm quite bloated. But that Right up until I started drinking booze. I'm bloated. I'm quite bloated. That's probably because you were drinking last night at the comedy club. But other than that, yeah, you're fine. You're fine. Okay. So this kid here, he's a small kid. He's 5'7", also, when he grows up.

So as you know, you're familiar. This kid is me. I like him. This kid is you. He's 5. He's a very sweet kid. He writes, when he's 5, his mother saves later on, wrote his mom a poem for Mother's Day. Oh, that's nice.

Which is sweet. You know what I mean? That's very nice. He's a nice kid. Everybody says he loves animals. He takes anything he finds, he takes it home and wants to keep it. Even like rats and snakes. What the fuck?

And lizards and shit. Okay, this isn't a sweet kid anymore. Well, yeah, it's like he finds anything. Shit's coming off the rails. Yeah, if a kid comes home with a rat and he's like, mom, I found a pet. Get the fuck out of my house. Go. You would smack it from his hand before he'd even say anything.

He's like, ah. Mom, I got it. I see it. And it runs through. Trying to stomp it. That's my friend. Mom, no. No. Get trying to stomp it. That's my friend. Mom, no. No.

Get it out. Kill it. So that could be traumatic, but I don't think that ever happened here. His mom said that he caught a trout once in his grandmother's pond, and he cried because it was bleeding. Oh, my God. So he's kind of a sensitive kid with the animals and stuff like that. So, you know, that's a nice thing, I guess. Very little, though.

At one point when he's in elementary school, I guess all the other kids weighed like 50 pounds and he would weigh himself and he only weighed 39 pounds. So that's small. 39 pounds in school at all. I was more than 39 pounds before kindergarten. I'll tell

you that right now. I was a fat fuck when I was a kid i'll tell you a quick one i was 33 pounds in third grade i remember that because of all the three okay so this is you this is you i was a fat fuck i was fat yeah um my grandmother italian grandma stuffed me full of food constantly and i was a fat shit until about the eighth grade and then i hit a growth spurt and got skinny and I can't ever get back to it. I was probably emaciated. That's probably a good definition. It's probably malnourished, also probably a good definition. It's just white trash upbringing.

I didn't have good food to eat. And then my body, because it didn't have good food, just fucking blew through all the garbage that I was eating. And you wound up skinny. He wound up skinny. And also, too, you were a hyper kid from what I know. So you were running around like crazy, which doesn't help either. Dirty and running around. Yeah, running around, burning calories like a motherfucker.

So that's this kid. He's upset about it. He would cry, saying, you know, he would, like, try to eat stuff and weigh himself. Yeah. Anything? No, shit. He would cry. His mother told him to keep rocks in his pockets when he weighed himself in front of the other kids.

That's called cheating, Ma. Yeah, that's the thing. Maybe the other kids won't make fun of him as much, but he still knows he's not as big, and I think that's the problem with him is he wants to be bigger here. Now, a lot of this, by the way, this whole story, a lot of it came from a lot of the information, especially the background information, came from an amazing article. Really, really terrific reporting from this person here. It's from the Olympian newspaper by a guy named Sean Robinson. So go online, subscribe to this Olympian Washington newspaper for a minute because this is an excellent job of reporting

these guys do. So good publicity for them. So Karen Hull is his mother. And she's this woman, man. I got to like this woman. She tries. She's one of these single mothers that's like, I'm going to keep shit together. I'm going to try.

And he's kind of a fuck up to Walter. Like he starts to become like kind of a tearaway. He's like a drinker and he likes to smoke weed. Yeah. He likes to skip school. And he likes to whatever you did when you were 14 is what this kid likes to do. Just seeing every it's mini Jimmy. This is a mini Jimmy.

Well, let's 15 year old Jimmy. Let's. It turned out much differently for him, I believe, than it did for you, although there is still some time left for you. We never know. So, yeah, so his mother, she's going from she has multiple jobs, single mom. She's trying her hardest. And this is when, like I said, he starts to get into kind of high school age, doesn't want to go to school anymore. He starts skipping school. And kids mess with him, too, at school.

That's the problem here. Things got tough. They moved. She, Karen and Walter moved to Puyallup. Is that how you say that? I don't know. Puyallup, Washington area. This area here.

Close enough. It's about 40,000 population. So actually a bigger, it's kind of more of a little bit bigger of a town. 40,000 and 1,000 are way different in terms of everything here. And for him, this was too much for him. He liked the small town, and this was like a lot of... This is more people that will make fun of him. This is it.

Yeah, he didn't like it. And he's in high school. He's 5'3". Brutal. That's my life. 120 pounds at this point. That's my life. You know, 120 pounds at this point. That's my life. That's how big I was freshman year, and I didn't make it to 120 pounds until I graduated high school.

Wow. See, well, this is kind of where he's at. This guy is me. He's like eighth grade, and people are messing with him in junior high. They're picking on him. He didn't have your sense of humor, I assume, too, probably, to kind of diffuse the whole situation and maybe skew it toward you a little bit and get people on your side. They instead stuffed him in garbage cans all the time.

That sounds right. And yeah, so he, as you might imagine, was not a big fan of going to school. No. Wasn't real into it. Yeah. As I can imagine, this poor kid, he's got, who wants to go to school? Especially, too, he moved. He's in some other town.

Yeah. People are stuffing you in garbage cans. It's like, my life sucks, man. They played a game called coin flip at my high school. He's like Ralph Macchio in The Karate Kid, I feel like, at this point. He comes in. I picture Johnny beating him up. They would take two nerds or two people that they chose

that were smaller and jam them into lockers and flip a coin. And the person that lost got pissed on in the locker because they had like that grade in the front. Yeah, yeah.

And I was a victim of this game. Jesus Christ. And it was the first time in my entire life that I won anything. Good for you. And it was the best day of my life. Good for you.

Did you get a little trophy for it? No, porn. Yeah, my trophy was dry clothes. Let's say your trophy won anything. And it was the best day of my life. Good for you. Did you get a little trophy for it? No. Yeah, my trophy was dry clothes. You say your trophy a little. Neil next to me wasn't so lucky. Fluid coming out of it. That's the trophy. The piss avoider trophy.

Neil next to me, not so lucky. Oh, that's terrible. And I remember him screaming, stop, stop. And I was like, just don't aim over here I don't care if you stop or not I won leave me alone let me out oh my god so his

mother here she'd drop him off at school and she would literally not drive away till he went inside because she didn't think he was going to leave but that didn't bother him because he'd go out to the next door he'd go in in the school, in one entrance, out the other exit, like just not going to school. Not happening here.

She got a call from the hospital one time because Walter had alcohol poisoning at school. What? So he had to, yeah, I guess he drank a whole bunch before he went to school. I know how I'll dull this. Put enough to get alcohol poisoning? Well, shit, if you're 115 pounds, he might have had three beers next thing you know he's half dead yeah he had to get his stomach pumped the whole deal uh so he's she's like okay this this area the uh pile up area is

is not working out for him uh let's send him maybe it'll work out better if we move him to uh tanino which is another little town. It's about 1,600 population. It's about the same size. It's the first town they came from with her mother, Karen's mother, and his grandmother, who I love in this article. They just call her Grandma Dolores the whole time. And that's the best thing to call her. She's Grandma Dolores, man.

That's all it is here. So she sent him there, and it was was better for him yeah for a little bit here uh she was more strict than the mother and had more time than the mother she wasn't working two jobs sure and all that sort of thing so she had more time to say hey do your goddamn homework right uh you know she had a certain time yeah hey you you know you look Right. You're a child. You smell like Coors. What are you doing? You just fell down when I was standing here talking to me.

That's not normal for a teenager, is it? I might be older, but I think I got that much. I've seen booze. I've seen how people react to it. I've seen booze, yeah. So he actually did better in school when he went there. He had actually good grades, which was good. He had a really good grade in science.

The science teacher was impressed with him, saying this kid knows what he's doing. So not bad at all here. He wrote in this article, too, it talked about him writing an essay about if he was president. He would raise taxes to lower the deficit and abolish the electoral college. So kick that around amongst yourselves. That's his politics. That's his politics. That is super fascinating.

But the grandmother thing, when you have a kid that's kind of a fuck up and you have a kid that's just kind of restless, it's not even going to say fuck up because you haven't really done anything to fuck up when you're 14. It's just kind of you're restless and nobody's kind of figured out how to reach you yet, I guess. I don't know. However you want to put it. There's potential, but it needs to be guided. He's got stirrings where he needs to get out and go and do, you know, I don't think the structure.

Plus, I don't think he was used to the kind of structure his grandmother had for him. And maybe at first you're like, cool, I like this. And it makes you feel good that someone cares and all that. And then after a while, you're like, but I really don't like going to school and I like drinking beer. So maybe grandma's not the best. I mean, those things are good, but beer, you know, I don't want to get stuff in the garbage I don't blame you.

It happens. Maybe he was getting pissed on in the garbage can. It's possible. We have no idea if he won that trophy or not. That trophy is so coveted. If he won the golden shower trophy or not, I'm sure i'm not just a golden shower what a shit fucking thing to do to kids that's an awful thing it really is what a fucking what an asshole do you remember who this person was i don't remember his name oh are you kidding me of them there was a

group of them any of their names i don't know i remember neil getting pissed on oh well that's the kid who got pissed on. Any of the pissers. It was all the fucking cool kids. Hey, dickheads. Yeah, all the cool kids. I hope one of you cocksuckers listen. Do you remember pissing on Jimmy?

I'm sure there was a Steve, a Mike, or a James. Well, Steve, Mike, James, go fuck yourselves for pissing on Jimmy. How dare you? It would have been common fucking names. I don't remember it. I just remember being terrified. You cocksuckers. And winning.

What a bunch of assholes. The first time I won anything. That's quite the win. Yeah. Quite the win. It's definitely not the loss. No, it's not a loss. That loss is the worst loss.

That's a tough loss. You're going to be in school all day long with somebody else's piss on you. That's the fucking, that's the loss. That's horrible. You'd have to get piss revenge on that. You'd think so, right? You'd have to piss in a bag and throw it at him or something. You'd have to make a piss balloon.

That's why they picked the little guy. Because he's not going to fight back. Still make a piss balloon, though. Yeah, you've got to make a piss balloon. I don't know what to do in that situation. You just leave school and never come back. It's kind of like on The Wire when those kids watch The Wire. Jimmy, the whole kids from the neighborhood, they had a plan to ambush these other kids who beat up Dookie because you can't fuck with Dookie.

We can fuck with Dookie, but no one else can fuck with Dookie. So they set up a plan to get him around the corner and then throw piss water balloons at him. Really? The only thing is half of them broke in the kids' hands as they were throwing them. They were covered in piss too, and then the kids chased them, and it was a big brawl. That's what I would be afraid of. And most of them got the shit beaten out of them for throwing piss balloons. So in the end, maybe you shouldn't have thrown piss balloons.

Wise choice. Well, the problem is with piss balloons, how do you get enough pressure behind it to actually make the balloon expand? Well, that's where you'd have to hold it open. At 36, I can't do that today. You've got to have serious flow. I don't have the pump for that anymore. You've got to have serious flow right there. That's a tough one.

Maybe mix it with another sub. I'm not sure. Moving on. Get the balloon halfway filled up already? I don't have the pump for that anymore. You've got to have serious flow right there. That's a tough one. Maybe mix it with another sub. I'm not sure. Moving on. Get the balloon halfway filled up already? I don't know. He makes, Walter makes a decision, and I don't know why his mother would let him do this, but I guess if his grandmother couldn't hack it with him, what else do you do? He decides to move in, go to Spokane, Washington, to live with his ex-stepfather.

No. Ex-stepfather. No. You don't go live with your ex-stepfather. I don't even want this kid living with his real dad at this point. Definitely not a stepfather who then also left. Right. And also, the population here is now expanding exponentially.

That's the other thing. Spokane's huge. It's big. And also, his younger brother, half-brother from the stepfather and the mother's relationship also. This sounds like a... What could go wrong? It's gotten really bad now. The ex-stepfather is a trucker who's not there

a lot. Fantastic. That'll turn it around. Neglect and trucker speed. That's what the kid needs. Easy access to trucker speed and no supervision. Woo-hoo! When he comes home, he is dead tired. He's knocking out for three days straight, and that cab of that truck is overflowing with trucker speed. No offense, truckers.

We have a lot of truckers that listen, but this is 1990. Right, this is a problem. You're a pussy if you don't get up some speed. You're not going to make it on time, boy. Better take that speed. Put the hammer down, motherfucker. What the hell are you doing? I was like, fuck, man.

Just lazy. That'm just lazy. That's just lazy. Holy shit. That's like a guy supposed to pitch in the seventh game of the World Series. He didn't sleep at all the night before because he's out partying. What the fuck? That's just irresponsible. You're not earning a ring, you fuck.

What are you doing? Take that trucker speed and you're not going to make it. God damn it, I love truckers, though. They're such amazing people yeah yeah they are amazing that's some patient shit right there that's a fucking there's no there's nobody in america that drives this fucking country like they do that's that's real no it's a nightmare i hate driving yeah we have four boxes in our studio today because of people like i hate driving to the studio it's just 20 minutes from my house and that's in a car. These fuckers are driving from

Illinois all the way down to fucking Tucson. And it's a big rig which looks frightening as shit to drive. I can't imagine driving that shit. Shockingly enough, this didn't end up working out swimmingly as you would imagine. He ends up going back to his mom. Walter goes back to live with his mom again.

They're in Puyallup or whatever it is there. Is it P-U-Y-L? P-U-Y-L. Puyallup. Puyallup. Puyallup. Okay.

That's weird. Whatever. So anyway, he comes back to live with his mom. They go to counseling. They go to family counseling, which see what I mean? His mom tries. His mom's like, okay, maybe it'll be better with the grandmother. Okay.

Well, you come back. Great. We'll get you in counseling. Let's? His mom tries. His mom's like, okay, maybe it'll be better with the grandmother. Okay, well, you come back. Great. We'll get you in counseling. She tries. She's exhausted all means, even up until calling her ex. Yeah. He wants to live with you. All right.

Send him on. I'm never here anyway. Fuck it. I don't care. I got a bunch of trucker speed he can take. That's cool. So anyway, they do that. In counseling, they're told about a program called the Job Corps.

Okay. Do you know what the Job Corps is program called the Job Corps. Okay. Do you know what the Job Corps is? It's fucked up. Okay. So weird. Job Corps, if you don't know what it is, let's get into it for one second, then we'll talk for a second. Because I have a feeling you know people that have done this. Yes. So do I.

Okay. They're all fuck-ups. Every one of them. Every last one. I'm sorry, but this- It is not the Peace Corps. No, this is not the Peace Corps. This is way different.

This is Peace Corps with meth. Yes. I remember a line in a Wu-Tang song of Ghostface Killer saying, I should have went to Job Corps. And can it be that it was also simple then? So if Ghostface Killer had the option to go to Job Corps, then it's not great. We'll put it that way. It's not quality people.

He never said, I should have went to Peace Corps. That didn't happen. That never happened, ever. Never. Jobcor.com says on their site, by the way, there's like no text at all on here. It's all like click on a thing to get a video and a picture. There's a reason for that. Here's what we're about.

People in Job Corps can't fucking read. That's exactly it. One says, quote, explore the perks. There's like four options. Four words. Explore the perks. Three, find your purpose. Never more than three.

Find your purpose, which just makes me think of a jerk. I found my special purpose. That just always makes me think of Steve Martin. I hear anyone say anything about purpose. Find your purpose and they just look in their lap. That's hilarious. I found my purpose. Master a trade and grow your career.

There you go. And those are like four separate options, which all seem like they pretty much go along Master a trade is great fucking advice, though. I assure you that most of the time, very few of those things are accomplished. Very few of those objectives actually come to pass. Very few come to fruition. I know a couple people who were complete fuck-ups

that were at the Job Corps, and one of them slept on my couch for like three days because he had a problem at the Job Corps. It's a mess. He didn't even say bye. You just came home one day day and he wasn't there. He wasn't there anymore. Exactly.

I haven't heard from him. Job core is it's not the greatest. And I'm sure there's success. Oh, I'm positive. There's at least three. I know there's two or three kids who had a bad environment. They went there. They took advantage of everything the program had to offer.

They didn't get involved. But that's great. Good for you guys. You look around. You look to your right. Look to's great. Good for you guys. You look around. You look to your right. Look to your left. You're alone. So there you go.

On graduation day or whatever the fuck they do. Yeah, or whatever they do. Whoever the valedictorian is. They're the valedictorian because he's the only one. Graduation is the day they just knock on your dorm door and say, get the fuck out now. Get the fuck out. You go, I guess I graduated. Somebody hired you.

Get out. You stumble out in your nightclothes and they throw a big duffel bag out behind you with all your shit and you go, rubbing your eyes, you go, I guess I graduated. Fuck, cool. Do I get a diploma? You have to buy a coffee. That's your graduation. Do I get a diploma?

And then a paper airplane comes flying out at you. That's the diploma. Stabs you in the eye. Oh, okay. There's that. What a great you. That's the diploma. Stabs you in the eye. Like, ow. What is this? Oh, okay. There's that. What a great day. What a great day.

My mother's going to be so proud. She's going to be so happy. You get your whole family there. I don't have health insurance. No. And now I have a cut eye. Look, I still don't have health insurance. So these Job Corps people, I'm right with you.

It states on the Job Corps website that your earning potential is another thing. They have those four things, and they have big numbers. One is minimum wage, yearly salary, $15,080. After Job Corps, and they have, as you scroll down, like a little bar that goes all the way up past that to $57,000. Holy shit. Which sounds like they pulled it right out of their ass. Yeah, they did. They're like, that sounds like a lot to a dumb kid right there.

Good. How crazy is that that you can go from $15,000 to $57,000 and then you're like, this is for me. That's bananas. This is like you flunked out of the B high school that they sent you to after they kick you out of high school. You flunked out of that. They're like, it's either the job core

or the army. I don't know what else to tell you guys. And the army won't take you because you're fucking up even more. But out of the army, you could probably make 57, so that's probably a better path.

And they might actually straighten your ass out. That's the other thing. You might actually keep you from being a complete fuck-up. If they don't, you'll be dishonestly discharged or in the brig or in jail.

And you were going to be there anyway. The brochure for Hull and Walter, for Karen and Walter, it said, quote, make a new life and a good living. So they're looking at that and they're looking at him and they're like, well, he's not doing well in school. And he's not going to do all this. Students range from 16 to 24. And that's the kids I knew that worked there. I worked at a bar.

I was like 21 and they were like 20 and 22. And they like worked in the kitchen and they you know went to job corps right by there and it was very depressing here um apparently they had to pass criminal background checks okay to see they weren't like a heart but some crimes were allowed because these kids had fucking records i knew for a fact so i don't know what kind of background checks they were doing uh there's on-site dorms. Have you murdered anybody? No? You're in. I think maybe that's what it is.

If you don't have like a first-degree rape conviction, they're like, okay, well, you're fine. They live in on-site dorms here. Now, this one that he's looking at that he wants to go to is in Oregon, all the way by the coast in Yachats. Yachats? I don't know how the fuck. It's some Native American word. Y-A-C-H-A-T-S. That's got to be a Native American, right? Yachats? I have no idea. Yachats. Yachats? I don't know how the fuck. It's some Native American word. Y-A-C-H-A-T-S. That's got to be a Native American, right? Yachats?

I have no idea. Yachats? And I've heard it pronounced different ways. Don't tweet us. Don't tweet us because we don't care and we'll know by then anyway. It doesn't matter. I saw you pick your phone up. Stop it.

It doesn't matter. Stop. We don't give a shit. Don't say, it's this. I know you don't want to know, but ha, ha, ha. No, we don't. No, I really don't. You're just clogging up the notifications.

You really are. I get 175 of them with you saying yakkins. And we love it, but we don't need that. Right. Yeah. Say, you guys are dicks and you can't pronounce anything, and we'll go, ha, ha, ha. That's great. But don't correct the pronunciation.

Make fun of us, fine. Correction, fuck you. Okay. Moving on. So, no alcohol is allowed on site. This is a small town. This is south of Newport, down the coast. He's getting close.

Small town. Yeah. So they're hanging out here. This is where he could get his GED. They're saying he could learn a trade. That's great. He could do this all here. No distractions.

It's at the beach over there. And not the beach beach, but like the cold beach. It's the beach. You can go sit on the beach in a parka and be like this is great karen said about the whole thing this was like a you know this was a light at the end of the tunnel maybe a moment for him so she said quote on the face of it it looked like a great opportunity for someone to get an education and have a place to stay that was permanent and stable they talked about the college opportunities yeah so this she'd never heard the word college mentioned the same sentence sentence with Walter in her whole life.

So she's like, this is awesome. Walter is totally on board, but he wants to go, like we said, to the one in Yockats, Oregon, which is 300 miles away. So he wants to get away from home. He's only 16 at this point in time. He's only 16 years old. He hadn't even turned 17 yet. His mother asked if he was afraid, and he said that he wasn't afraid at all. He said he couldn't wait.

There was closer ones there where he could be there, and she could see him more and all that. And he said, nope, I want to be there. I want to be the one by the ocean. I like it. I like the ocean. He said he wanted to go fishing and stuff, and he was going there. Good path. I like it.

Good path. He picks culinary arts as his career, which is good for a kid like this, because if you're good with your hands a little bit, you can be a chef. Small, you can fit in the kitchen easily. No, you're absolutely right. There's plenty of room. I'm not even making a joke. No, that's great.

In the kitchen, you see a guy who's got skills. You've seen a line cook? 5'7", a buck 25. You're like, fuck yeah, come on in there. You can fit behind me. Absolutely. You're not going to bump into me. You don't want any fat guys.

No. I mean, a fat guy makes better food. But never trust a skinny chef. It's like, well, then you'll never trust a chef because they're all fucking skinny. They're all skinny for the most part. To make it around in that kitchen, it's so easy when you're little. Unless they get to be fat and gluttonous later on, like Mario Batali. Oh, he's so good.

You're diddling people and everything else. He makes such great food. Yeah, he does. He does. And he's so good. You're diddling people and everything else. He makes such great food. Yeah, he does. He does. And he's apparently a bad guy, from what we found out recently. He always seemed like a bit of a douchebag to me. I mean, he looks like kind of a dick face.

He looks pretty gross. That's true. Yeah. If his behavior matches his appearance, then that makes sense. Then what the hell here? Now, when they're filling out the admission forms, one thing that she allowed,

there's a special permission slip that allows him on off days to leave campus unsupervised. His mother has to sign off on that. Otherwise, he's pretty much locked down in the dorms. So his mother signs off on that. He says there's lakes and streams, basically, and he wants to go fishing. And he's 16 years old. And they're like, okay, we're going to trust you. You're trying to get your head out of your ass. They're in counseling, so at the time, everything he's saying is probably positive. And they're like, no, no, Walter gets it now. He's getting it, so it's great.

Let's put him here. I'm rooting on him for sure right now. You've got to root for him. Everybody's rooting for him here. So he goes over there. They put the emergency contacts of her and Karen and Grandma Dolores and for him here. So he goes over there. They have their, you know, they put the emergency contacts of her and of Karen and Grandma Dolores and all that here. He leaves. And he's such a kid still.

He packs his baseball cards when he leaves. Oh, Jesus. His prized possession was Ken Griffey Jr. rookie cards. Yeah, it was. He lives in the Pacific Northwest. I was going to say. And plus, when I was 11, that was a big deal, too. I had to get the Ken Griffey Jr. upper deck, number one. Yeah, fucking everybody did. And I was going to say, plus when I was 11, that was a big deal too. I had to get the Ken Griffey Jr.

upper deck, number one of the, yeah, fucking everybody did and I was in New York, so it didn't matter where you are, it was Ken Griffey Jr.

So, and this was right then, 1990, this was like his second year. So he writes his grandmother a letter on March 7th, 1990. This is before he leaves for his trip.

In the letter, he says, quote, Grandma, hi, today I leave in about eight and a half hours. I am afraid of not succeeding in this venture. I know I can, but I think a large part of my failures are because I am afraid that if I really try, I will fail. I'm going to try to

succeed at it. At least that is what part of me is saying, but I know the other side is saying I'm a quitter and a failure. I hope you understand what I'm saying. When I get down there, spelled T-H-E-I-R, and I only say that not to make fun of him at this point, but to just point out the lack of education. I am planning on going to the junior college they have on campus as well as the job corps. I have so much to say since I talked to you yesterday afternoon. Thanks again for the baseball cards and the card, although I think you should have saved your money because you need it more than I need baseball cards. Oh, that's sweet.

So that's nice. And also, too, the way it's written, it's very well, that's a really well-crafted letter. That's not bad. He's using venture. He's using failure. He can get his emotions out. He can tell venture. He's using failure. He can get his emotions out. He can tell you. He wants to be a good kid.

Yeah. And if you taught him some English, he'd probably be able to write something. Yeah, exactly. His grandmother wrote him back saying that it was a chance of a lifetime and everybody is scared of shit. Grownups feel that way too. Did she say that? Everybody's scared of shit, kid.

Everybody's scared of shit, kid. That's what she wrote. Listen. She said, listen, buddy. Everybody's scared of shit. Grandma. Get out there. G, kid. That's what she wrote. Listen. She said, listen, buddy. Everybody's scared of shit. Grandma. Get out there. G-ma.

Fuck it. I don't have time for grand. G-ma. This grandmother is so nice. Quote, I love you and think of you a lot and really hope this is the break you deserve. Okay. Now, quickly, sidetrack. Yeah.

From grandma. Yeah. She doesn't have money, but here's baseball cards and I love you. I really hope this is the break you deserve. Right. Let's contrast that with Christmas at my house, okay? Christmas Eve, quick sidetrack. Yeah.

Quick sidetrack. Christmas Eve, my grandmother's at my house. Number one, hilarious thing, just a foreigner thing. My mother, somebody made Oreo balls, these dessert things. And she said, Ma, what the hell is the Oreos? She had no idea what an Oreo is, which I think is fucking hilarious. What the hell is the Oreos? It's the Oreos. It's like, you've been in this country since they came out.

So there's no excuse for not knowing. There's commercials. There's knockoffs of them now. Jesus. You know what an Oreo is, lady. Number two, my ravioli. I made homemade ravioli. Last week, we were at the studio, went home.

6.30 in the morning, we were making homemade ravioli. Jesus. For all these people, made hundreds of ravioli. I made homemade ravioli. Last week we were at the studio, went home, 6.30 in the morning we were making homemade ravioli. For all these people, made hundreds of ravioli. Fucking 13 hours of ravioli. Insane, right? Give it to my grandmother. She's the first plate. I make the whole thing. I give her the first plate.

Everybody eats. Everybody says how good it is. And this shit was good, Jimmy. I don't mess around with the homemade pasta. This ricotta, you could just eat it out of the bowl. I had it seasoned with the cheese. It was so amazing. This was the best thing I've ever made.

I'm proud of this shit. Everybody eats. Everybody feels good about it. It's amazing. I'm in the kitchen. I'm just kind of cleaning up. I just am making my plate to eat standing at the counter while I'm doing all this. You clean up flour off the floor.

And my grandmother walks in the kitchen and she says, Jimmy, can I ask you, did you put any seasoning in the ricotta at all? Any salt, pepper? It's very bland. Grandma, it's 16 hours. You know, I love my grandmother. But every once in a while, you understand why the desire to punch an old lady would come to the surface. You know what I mean?

You know what I'm saying? Not that you do it. But the desire. I just saw you in my head. To do it. I just saw you. You know what I'm saying? So if you know James, he shrugs a lot.

And he doesn't say anything. And you just know that shrug means a fucking lot. And I can see you taking a bite of the Treville, shrugging, setting the plate down, coming around and just drilling this little plate. Everything Mike said. I looked at her, I subbed, and she had a look on her face. I guess this is a Christmas I punch you. Yay. Merry Christmas.

She had a look on her face like I was an asshole, too. Like, why did you do this to me? And I kind of cocked my head sideways and I went, I guess not enough then. I'm sorry, Grandma. I don't know. I messed up. And then she went on to tell me five more times that I should have done better. Right.

And so I said thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thank you, Grandma. Oh, I can't wait to meet her. And didn't say anything else. And you will on March 25th at Stand Up Live because she'll be there at the show. Then for a Christmas present, she proceeded to give me my own savings bonds that she got for me in 1982. That was my Christmas present.

I shit you not. We're going to open a time capsule on Christmas. I open it up and I'm like, these are addressed to me. These are from 1982. You already bought these for me. They were from Christmas of 82. Right. So she bought me a Christmas present in 1982 that she then gave again to me 35 years later.

That's some foresight. That's unbelievable. Wow. That's fantastic. That's grandma over the holidays. Somebody gave me a gift card this Christmas. We got gift cards from our listeners. Yes, thank you.

If they took those and put them in a time capsule and then gave them to us again next year, I'd be fucking furious. Yeah, I'd be like, what are you doing? She re-gifted my own gift. Right. That was already to me. She didn't re-gifted my own gift that was already to me she didn't re-gift a gift someone gave to me she got me something then re-wrapped it gave it to me again that is the next level of cheap and funny so that's the next level of go fuck yourself with

your ravioli oh yeah your ravioli sucks and here's something you already own i'll bet she had two merry christmas she had two gifts for you one was if you fucked up the ravioli, and you did. Yeah, that was... And then the other one was like a fucking TV in her trunk. Yeah, that's it. That's gone. My hair. Ma, I'll get you a gift after your ravioli.

She handed me the envelope, too, and she said, Ma, they'll be worth more than they say on the front because they're old, and I'm like... Because there's time passing. And there's an envelope. I'm like, what is she talking about? And then I open it up and I'm like, oh, there's bonds. Wait, these are addressed to me. These are from... She already got me these for Christmas. Thank you, Grandma.

Thank you very much. That's terrific. So, yeah. What a gift. That's a different Grandma. That's my nice Grandma. You deserve every break you're going to get, Jackie. Jesus Christ. She also used to hit me with a spoon violently when I was younger.

Yes, she did. She's a foreigner, though. I'll give her that. She told me way worse stories of her own beatings, so it's fine. Now, Walter's 5'7", 128 pounds, going off to the job corps on his own with people who are going to be older than him, which is tough here. Yeah. First two weeks he's there, he calls his grandmother a bunch, calls his mother a bunch. He said, can you send me a fishing pole?

I guess his fishing pole broke, and he's like, I need a fishing pole. I'm bored over here. Weird thing happens, though. March 20, 1990, he gets a call. The grandmother gets a call from him, and he's just being weird. He's saying things but not saying things. He tells her, quote, this place is nothing like you think it is. He's just being weird. He's being, he's saying things, but not saying things. He tells her, quote, this place is nothing like you think it is. He's let down.

Yeah, but he wouldn't go into details. He just said it's not like they say, and it's not what you think. And he kept saying stuff like that. The people are different than you'd imagine. Real weird stuff. It's Job Corps, bro. It's Job Corps. What did you expect?

This is not, yeah, you're not going to the most. It's not Yale. No. No. It's Job Corps. And even there, they would haze you and everything else. Probably horribly. core bro it's job core what did you expect this is not yeah you're not going to the most not yale no no and even there they would they would haze you and everything else probably horribly but these people are gonna just their criminal minds have these people this is skull and bones without the sweater vest exactly this is skull and bones with actual skulls and bones that's the problem uh so uh grandma dolores said quote we learned there wasn't anything good about that place. So that's rough here. But they don't hear anything from him. That was the 20th of March.

By April 5th, they don't hear anything from him for two weeks. And they're like, what is going on with Walter? Two weeks. Two weeks. He just doesn't call. And they think, well, for a while, they're like, well, he said he was kind of bummed out there. And so maybe he's just trying to adjust. And so they kind of give him his space.

there and so maybe he's just you know trying to adjust and so they kind of give him his space uh but then a job corps counselor calls her on april 5th 1990 calls karen uh a guy named bud and he said that uh he wants to know what walter's plans are yeah and she said plans about what what the fuck are you talking about we went over a you know a curriculum and you guys we talked about this um she said well why don't you ask him about it he's the one with you i'm here what are you talking about and he said hasn't anyone called you she said no nobody's called me and what are you talking about and he said well he he's been missing he's he left the 24th of march and we haven't seen him at all i don't know what you're talking about she he goes you mean you haven't heard from him oh boy she's like fuck no i haven't heard from him and you no one told me he's fucking missing and they they were like, oh, I don't know.

We figured he just went home or something. They said the- This is Job Corps. That shit happens all the time. And that's what I mean. They run away all the time. I guess they have a rule for alerting parents when a student takes off. The policy then, this is 1990, is that they require notification within 24 hours.

He's been missing since March 24th. It is now April 5th. That's not good. So that's a lot. That's a long time for a 16-year-old kid to be doing God knows what out there. She hangs up. Karen hangs up with the counselor, and she immediately calls the Pierce County, Washington Sheriff's Department to file a missing person report.

They tell her he's not missing in Washington, so you need to call Oregon and do it there. So she calls back to the job corps to find out more information so she can give to those people. She gets a call back from a woman named Maren Taylor, who's a counselor there. This Taylor woman has the balls to tell her that there's nothing to worry about. She's like, you're fine. Don't worry about it. She's like, what do you mean don't worry about it? I don't know where my 16 year old is and you haven't seen him in two weeks almost, so what the hell is going on? The lady tells her, Taylor tells Karen,

we figured it out. He took off for Wyoming with another kid. Marin said that? Yeah, Taylor, the counselor. She took off to Wyoming, and she's like, he's 16 fucking years old. He doesn't get to go to Wyoming on his own? If he's not with you, he belongs with me.

You know, he's 16 years old. He's still a minor. He can't go running around different states with other people. The mother here, Karen, asked the lady, Taylor, to file a police report. And she says, for what? That's what he said. Because she's 16, you fucking dummy. Finally, she says she will file a report.

And as you can imagine, I mean, Karen's freaking out. She doesn't know what the fuck's going on. She hasn't heard from her son. She's losing her mind. She speaks to another counselor to ask if the police report had been filed. What about the other kid that took off with Walter? Is he back? Who is that kid?

Do you know where he is? Can we get a name? Can we get something? Can we paint something in this picture? Because right now there is no color. This is too much. This is too gray. This is five minutes into a Bob Ross painting. You have no fucking idea what those gray blobs that he's telling you to swoosh around and just do kind of hard and then just swoosh it off at the end.

You know, get the brush. You don't know what that's going to be. Is it going to be a mountain? Is it going to be a tree? We have no fucking idea at this point. So that's what I think we're doing here. The counselor says, I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone who left with Walter, all the boys that took off that day, they've been back.

No one filed any police report. Walter took all his clothes with him, they tell her. They say he took his clothes, his personal belongings. That's not a fucking day trip to Wyoming. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, this isn't a motel where they're like, oh no, room 128? No, he checked out. No. No. Room 128, 128 pounds here. He's still there. God damn it.

Where is he? So she said, Karen said, I'll file the shit with myself. I'll file the police report myself and I'm going to come down there too and talk to you motherfuckers. God damn right. So yeah, the job corps, they're just like, he's a runaway. I don't know. He ran away. Kids run away all the time. I don't there and talk to you. God damn right. So, yeah, the job core, they're just like, these are runaway. I don't know.

He ran away. Kids run away all the time. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I don't know if a lot of these kids don't have parents that give a shit. That's probably generally true. They're probably not used to dealing with involved parents who actually care and actually go, hey, where's my kid? The majority of people in job core, the parents are like your problem now. Yeah.

I'm glad I haven't heard from two weeks. Thank God. It's finally been a reprie your problem now. Yeah, I'm glad I haven't heard from him in two weeks. Thank God. It's finally. It's been a reprieve. Finally, yeah. So anyway, they never filed the police report. And they didn't tell her they didn't file the police report. Jesus Christ. So as far as she knew, the police report was filed.

Right. So it ends up being a Lieutenant Dave Shanks, who is the guy looking for the police department there. He spends an afternoon in Yuckettes. He talks to the Job Corps people. He talks to staff members. They tell him that three other students with Walter, a guy named Troy Culver, who's 20 years old. Culver's like 5'7".

He's a stocky little fat fuck, though. Eric Forgen and Jeff Callaghan, these other two guys, they were both 19, almost 20. So they're older than him. They're three years older than him. Kind of a little more seasoned than him here. The four of them went to Nye Beach on the 24th. And

what the students tell him, that they talked some guy into buying him beer. They got a case of old English 40s. You bet. A case of 40s. A case of 40s, which I think is like eight. Is it? I think that's like eight, I think. I'm not sure.

I hope so. A case can't be 20. You're not getting 24 40s. That's too many. They're not drinking six 40s a piece. That's a lot. You will die. At 110 pounds, you will die.

First of all, you wouldn't be able to just keep that much liquid in you. It would be coming out of your ears. Beer just coming from your pores. I can't do it anymore. You wouldn't be able to just keep that much liquid in you. It would be coming out of your ears. Right. Beer just coming from your pores. I can't do it anymore. You'd just be drinking and pissing at the same time. Constantly. You'd just have to be standing on the beach. A steady stream.

You'd have to dick out just pissing while you're drinking. Yeah. They tell him that Walter got super drunk and went off by himself. And they said they went back and they didn't come back with him. They came back to Job Corps and they're like, I don't don't know he just disappeared he walked down the beach so he left all three of the kids said the same thing like he was he was there there's a thing where they saw them uh the kids said that there were some girls and uh walter was kind of acting like a jackass and so they kind of left him alone to go talk to these girls like a 16 year old yeah and they said

they wandered off and fucking you know he wandered off somewhere they said he took a beer he took an extra beer and wandered off somewhere and so they were like around with 240s 240s are like whatever fuck him you know what i mean they're not like brothers they don't they're just some kids from the job court and said i'll go to the beach too like they're not like a you know a crew yeah this isn't like oh these are best friends and still just a weird story but it's but it's a story I expect from people in Job Corps. Exactly. It's par for the course here. It's core for the course here.

Lieutenant Shanks talks to Casto, a guy named Casto, who's one of the counselors there at the Job Corps. And he tells him that we generally don't contact police when someone goes AWOL. We normally contact the parents and the student screeners immediately. But they don't. That's the problem here. Another counselor tells the policeman here, Shanks, that Walter's mother, that Karen had been contacted multiple times before that. He said, I know four or five different people that have spoken to her since then. What the shit?

And it's like, no, I don't think so. Shanks said that? No, no, no. Oh, the council. The Job Corps people said this. So he's just gathering his information. Shank, he talks to Culver again. He talks to everybody.

Now, what the kids say, too, is they say that Walter was, they say he drank his first 40 really fast, which if you're 128 pounds, you're going to get hammered drinking a 40 fast. It's a bad deal, yeah. It's three and a half beers, so that'll get you good. And they said, and he took another one and started drinking that real fast. And so then they were going to talk to some girls. And when they looked for him, him and another 40 was gone. So 40 number three, they said he took with him and wandered off here.

He's trying to hammer nine beers in like an hour. Yeah. Well, they said, too, he wasn't a guy who could really hold his alcohol for his age and weight. But they said he liked weed better. He was a weed guy. And Culver said that Walter had always bragged that he'd done acid. And he said he couldn't wait to get out of Job Corps so he could do more drugs. This is what Troy Culver is telling the detectives.

This is his story. This is his story here. There's also in his file, Shanks finds in the Job Corps file that he's got a girlfriend named Emma Beller at the Job Corps. He found a girlfriend. It's not bad. He's been there a couple weeks. He found a girlfriend. He's got a girlfriend and buddies to go drink beers with. That's not bad. This is good. This is better than before. Meanwhile, this detective

has the best detective name ever. Every time you say it, I keep seeing that brass name tag. Lieutenant Dave Shanks. Shanks. Just Shanks on his fucking name tag. That's amazing. So, yeah. So he comes back.

He tells the mother about that. They say that the Job Corps staff marked him as, quote, chose not to return. Whoa. Rather than missing. How are they doing this? I don't understand this whole case already. This is fucking too much. The Job Corps is just like, I don't know.

He took off. And this guy's like, I looked for him. I don't know. See why we're ragging on Job Corps? This is weird. much. The job corps is just like, I don't know. He took off. And this guy's like, I looked for him. I don't know. See why we're bragging on job corps? This is weird. That's it. And then, well, the police force, too. That's it.

They do all that investigation. That's the report. Two days later, they're like, I don't know. Whatever. That's it. This guy did not talk to Forsgren. That's his name. Sorry.

Forsgren or Callaghan, the other two guys he was with. Really? These are two people. Three people are the last to see him before he disappears. He only talks to one of them. What the fuck? I guess he wandered off. It's a good story, kid. You're right. What the fuck? Doesn't talk to his girlfriend at all, the alleged

girlfriend, Emma Beller. Doesn't talk to her. Just doesn't talk to people. He gives the report to a guy with the Newport Police Department up where it is, and that's it. Basically, they saw they didn't seek anything. They treated a minor like this. They just said he'll turn up eventually.

What the fuck? He's kind of a tearaway. So whatever. That's the way I look at it. But he never ran away before and not told anyone where he was. He never disappeared from his grandmother and his mother. That never happened before. So, yeah, they just suspend the case.

They say he's a runaway. He's just missing person like anybody else. This is 1990. That never happened before. So, yeah, they just suspend the case. They say he's a runaway. He's just a missing person like anybody else. This is 1990? 90. This is 1990 here. So Karen, not taking this shit, grabs fucking Grandma Dolores. They hop in the goddamn Buick and bolt ass 300 miles down there to talk about this shit in person.

She talks to everybody. There's no stone unturned with this lady. She is like Winona Ryder in Stranger Things. Her kid's in a fucking wall. Nobody believes her. They're showing her a corpse and she's like, no, no, no, I'm buying Christmas lights. My kid's in the fucking wall and I'm going to get him out. I don't care what the hell you say. I know he's in the wall. You can tell me he's not all you want. Tell me he's in the lake. I found him in the wall.

I like it. So that's what's going on here, I feel like. So this is who I picture the whole time. I picture Winona Ryder frantically hanging up Christmas lights in her white trash rundown shithole Indiana house. I just picture that. That's it. I just picture Winona Ryder doing that anyway.

Anyway, yeah. Because that's probably where her life is today. No shit. So they get there. Grandma Dolores says it looks like an institution. The kids look like crooks. It's basically not what she had in mind. She thought it was going to be a bunch of kids going to school books, and it's like, this looks like a prison.

There's trees and shit, and she's like, everything's gray. This is weird. This is all concrete and prison and boots, and this is strange. They all wore big boots apparently there. I guess it was a handout. I don't understand it here. Now, what they end up doing, they meet them. First thing they do is they give Karen a bag of Walter's things.

They told her that he took his things. Oh, that's right. They said he took all his shit and was gone. Everything. They're like, how do you have this here? Two days ago, I was told that he took his shit and left right now you have his shit by the way someone took his baseball cards they weren't in there really yeah oh they've definitely robbed him wow this shit's gonna be sitting in his room for two

days with valuables for two weeks these motherfuckers griffies are gone man gone so he didn't take his things with him which is an odd thing that right you know you would think if he was gonna run away at least grab your shit maybe grab your bag of clothes before you leave. And why doesn't the detective have those? You know what I mean? Because he didn't look that far into it. What a shitty-ass police work. Terrible police work.

This is small-town shit. This is why we do small-town murder, because this shit doesn't happen other places. If you, whatever, you could say whatever you want about L.A., but if the Los Angeles Police Department were handed a missing 16-year-old, they wouldn't just be like, I don't know, they said he's gone, fuck it, whatever. They would at least probably ask the three people he was with. I'm not saying they would find the kid or do it, but whatever. They would ask, at least ask more than two people. They'd say, he was with three people, we'll ask more than one of them.

That's crazy. If they might have seen him possibly. One person. So, yeah. They also say now, they say they tried to contact Karen. They said they called her two days after Walter disappeared, but they couldn't reach her. They said they left a message on Grandma Dolores' answering machine, and they sent a letter that day. The problem is, she never got a letter.

They never called Karen, and she has an answering machine. And Grandma Dolores, who they say they left a message on her answering machine, does not have an answering machine. Perfect. So they fucking lied about everything. They were like, you didn't answer. She's like, well, I have an answering machine. But we left a message on hers.

She doesn't have one. Right. So complete, everyone's full of shit here. They're just talking shit. They never sent a letter, nothing. It's essentially a bunch of ass covering for nobody's ass covering. You know what I mean? They completely dropped the ball.

So now Hull and Grandma go into Casto's office and they drag the other three fuckheads that he was with. And they're like, listen, you three nudnicks get in here. Culver, Forsgren, and Callaghan. They sit them down and they notice that they're not, you know, they're not like kids. You know what I mean? They're kind of a little more hard. They're adults. They're legitimate adults. Well, Culver mean? They're kind of a little more hard. They're adults. They're legitimate adults.

Well, Culver's got a mustache, for Christ's sake. Jesus. I doubt that kid has ever – Walter probably never shaved in his life. And if you've seen pictures of Walter, too, by that time period, he looked like he was – He's a child. He was 16. He looked like he was 11. I mean, he looked like he was 11 years old.

I know the feeling. He could have gone to fifth grade, and they would have been like, come on in, young man, and sit down. If he'd have stuck around a little bit longer in life, he could have turned out like me where you look like you're 11 when you're 16. And then eventually you turn 25 and you look like you're 72. It's the most fucked up life. It went from looking 12 to 45 immediately. It was so great. I was carded every day of my life when I was 24 for booze and cigarettes.

And I turned 25 and they're like, enjoy retirement, old man. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Wait, hold on. You forgot your issue of Modern Maturity magazine. You forgot that thing. Would you like to use your AARP discount? No, I would not. I'm 25.

So Hull is now interrogating these kids kids which is not her job right by the way uh she said uh you know asked them they told her the same story they told shanks yeah everybody says the grandmother and karen said that they wouldn't look her in the eye they just kept looking down at their shoes yeah culver uh she would ask them stuff and they just really wouldn't talk culver said at one point i'm sorry and she said why why would you say stuff and they just really wouldn't talk. Culver said at one point, I'm sorry. And she said, why? Why would you say that? And he said, well, if he'd been drinking and, you know, if he ran away on his own, you know, I should have watched out for him better. You know, I'm the oldest one and it should have been my responsibility to make sure he didn't wander off.

So that's it. The kids wouldn't say anything else, though. So there's nothing more you can say. It's not an apology time. Save apologies for when you really fuck up. That's it. Well, she drove home. H apologies for when you really fuck up. That's it. Well, she drove home. Hull drives home.

Karen drives home. Dejected. What are you going to do? They're saying nothing. What can you say? So she starts writing letters to Congress. Oh, my God. They won't fucking find my kid.

Find my kid. Yeah. So she writes to Republicans, to Democrats. She writes to these people. So she's trying to get answers from there. This is April of 1990. This is two weeks to 12 days after 17 days after she found out that he's missing. Next, after that, Karen and her father, a guy named Larry Bullard, they go back down to Job Corps.

Fucking great mom. Yeah. By the way, she's not taking no for an answer. She's had to call into work all these days. I don't give a shit. My kid's missing. The whole deal. Nothing new comes from any of these people. Nothing at all.

But during this trip, a girl named Emma Beller talks to her. Emma Beller pulls her aside, according to Karen, pulls her aside in a hallway, grabbed her by her sleeve, she said, and whispered to her that she heard that there was a fight and that TC, which is Troy Culliver, everybody calls him TC, TC and Eric got in a fight with Walter and threw him off a bridge. That would be the 133 foot high, you know, whatever bridge that we discussed earlier. Why the fuck else would I bring up a fucking bridge in a goddamn story? Give me some goddamn credit when I'm setting shit up in the beginning. I don't like the town stuff. Guess what?

It comes up later. Motherfuckers. I don't write a fucking story. So she says that that's what she heard, that threw him off a bridge. But Emma Beller wouldn't say anything else, and she kind of ran off. And she's like, I've said too much. That's so creepy. What is this, The Handmaid's Tale? One whisper and you run away. They're going to find out. They're going like, I've said too much. That's so creepy. What is this, The Handmaid's Tale?

One whisper and you run away. They're going to find out. They're going to know I said too much. What are you, the fucking white rabbit? It's fucking bizarre. It's so weird. Yeah, it runs away. You go in the room she went in and she's not in there.

There's a tiny hole in the corner and she's gone. A couple of eyes and you listen to Chester Cat tell you some stories. What the fuck is this? Yeah. So Hull goes to the Newport police and said, hey, bridge, guy, maybe they got bodies in there. They said, probably not.

This is what the police told her. Probably not. When people fall off that bridge, the bodies eventually wash up. So we would have probably seen them by now. What the fuck? And if not, they'll come up eventually. There are wolves out there. Not in the water. Usually they wash on up by the shore. It's fine.

So we would have found them on the beach. Some tourist would have found them while they were looking for seashells at some point. What a thing to say to a parent that's grieving. So, yeah. So she goes home, comes back, goes to the job corps. She wants to put up missing posters, missing person posters of Walter around there. She's told she's not allowed in when she gets there. The cast-o-asshole says, there's nothing more for me to say to you.

You're not coming in. You're not putting posters up. Get the fuck out of here. So they lose her kid, and then they're, like, kicking her off the property. So this is, like, every once in a while. The worst thing in the world is a mass shooting. But every once in a while, you go, how did someone not show up with a fucking assault? Like you getting pissed on in a locker.

How did you not show up and fucking get revenge on every last one of these motherfuckers? Because you're a sane person. I get that. We all are. But this is one of those situations where I could see her going, okay, and going to the sporting goods store and coming back with a shotgun and shooting every one of these counselors. Not that I'm encouraging that at all, but if that happened, I'd go, wow. Makes sense. She snapped, man.

That makes a lot more sense than a guy dressed as a joker going into a fucking movie theater. Exactly. At least there's a reason you pushed her over the edge. She snapped. She couldn't take it anymore. You drove her fucking crazy literally here. The problem is she talks to the police officers. They say there's nothing more else they can do for her. He's a runaway. They give her a form to sign. She signs

some form. What this does is this classifies him as a runaway officially. And she says, OK, I'm all right with that. What that means and what she doesn't know is that that means there's no more active inquiry. It's just put in a shelf. So now if somebody says, hey, I got some kid, is he a missing person? If they call in and look it up, oh, yeah, he is, but they're not looking for this person actively. That's fucked up. They just shelf him. Fuck it.

He's gone. And she has no idea that this is what this means. Yeah. In the report, it says, quote, I therefore recommend Walter Thomas Ackerson, Jr. be cleared from the computer as a missing person and entered as a runaway juvenile. No.

Which means they'll be back eventually. Never sign that. Never sign it. But she didn't know that's what she was signing. And they just told her. Yeah. So she wanted to believe that this happened. Yeah.

In her mind, that's a better story. How much better? He went to Wyoming with some other kid to be a fucking cowboy or something. It's a better story than two dipshits threw him off a bridge. Right. Like as a mother, you want to believe that. Sure. I would imagine here.

So, you know, she said she thought the police really looked into it, too. You tell the police there's a missing child. You expect they might check that out a little bit. And so she had no fucking idea. Walter Ackerman Jr. is a much better cowboy name anyway. It's a that's a good cowboy. Yeah, that's actually actually true. That's not bad here.

She even told she told this police officer here too that you know about this the Amabella story the kids the whole deal. They say in the report here that they should contact the three males

that he was with to see if they have any more information but outside of, who knows here. Two of them have not been interviewed at all officially, and the case is suspended. So they're not really going to do that anyway. By May 1990, people in Congress are working on this. But it's ridiculous because it's all bureaucracy. Congressmen actually write letters. They send them to the U.S. Department of Labor, which oversees the Job Corps.

Right. But the letters were then forwarded to the Department of Agriculture, which forwarded them to the Forest Services, which oversaw that particular Job Corps employee set over here. Okay. So, again, more specific. They're just sending them around. Nobody gives a shit. Finally, the Forest Service passes them to the Job Corps, and every reply came from Casto, the same guy who kicked her off the fucking property.

It does nothing, and it goes nowhere. Yeah. They just said, hey, we did try to contact her. She's crazy. She gets a letter from her congressman back in May, so less than two weeks later, she gets a letter back saying, quote, the day after the disappearance, they did attempt to contact you. And that proved unsuccessful. They left a message on your mother's answering machine. Apparently, the friends who last saw said Walter chose not to return.

I can't imagine. Same thing. Tough shit. So frustrating. We looked into it. I don't fucking know. Whatever. So, yeah, this whole thing is fucking ridiculous.

She's pissed off. She replies back that they've constantly given her misleading information and different stories. It's obvious that Casto is trying to cover this up and, you know, they fucked up and they don't want to acknowledge it. But things happen. I mean, it's she's writing letters back and forth. But this goes on through 1990. No word. No, nothing.

The whole goddamn year. The whole year goes by. Students, the three that she wanted to talk to, Callaghan, Forsgren, and Culver, they all leave. Callaghan graduates. They say that he has great praise and stuff on his reports from his teachers. They say what a great guy he is. Forsgren ends up getting suspended and kicked out for dicking off, drinking, stupid stuff like that. Culver is also kicked out for assaulting another student.

Oh, he's a little bit violent. He's fucking aggressive, this Culver here. But that's it. They went to the Walters photo, went to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that you'd get a flyer for with age progression. And you throw it in your trash. That's where it is where you don't even look at it. That's the one here. They did the whole age progression, which, by the way,

he looks like Jeffrey Dahmer in one of them, which is very creepy, and I feel bad, and I'm like, you know what? You could have made him look like anything you wanted. This is all really just an exercise in futility anyway. Because whoever did that just was like, he drinks in high school? I got a perfect picture for him. This is perfect, yeah. He must kill a bunch of people.

So, you know, she's, it's rough, man, on the family here. But this whole time, as you can imagine, I can't imagine your kids missing for two days. Yeah. Now we're through this. Years go by, Jimmy. Christmas is gone. Christmas is. 1994 comes along.

Troy Culver gets back into Job Corps in eastern Washington. Perfect. In his psychological profile here, he admitted he has a drinking problem, and he said that when he's drunk, he becomes, quote, a mean, angry person who likes to hurt people. Jesus. So that's a good guy. Yeah. That's a nice psychological report there. He drinks to forget that he hurt somebody, but then he gets fucking angry and violent when he drinks.

That's it, man. 1996, police finally, finally, and we'll talk about where it came from here. buddy but then he gets fucking angry and violent when he drinks that's it man uh 1996 police finally finally and we'll talk about where it came from here uh lincoln county sheriff's detective a guy named pete peregrine yeah uh he for some reason takes a look at this file it was just a standard review of old files he must have been bored that day and he said that uh forsgrin and others hadn't been interviewed so he goes and he tries to interview these people. He finds Eric Forsgren. Yeah. And Forsgren says the same story.

They found girls on the beach. By the way, they call him Forskin for sure. Forskin. You know he gets Forskin. You know he's Eric Forskin. Hey, Eric Forskin. Yeah. They just call him Forskin.

Yo, Forskin. You're goddamn right they do. You know he is, man. Every time you've said it, I've gotten Forskin. You know it is. Forskin, man. You're goddamn right they do. You know he is, man. Every time you've said it, I've gone foreskin.

You know it is foreskin, man. So he tells him the same old fucking story. Yeah. Girls and football on the beach and blah, blah, blah. And detective, don't call me foreskin. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, Forsgren even said that he never even thought about really Walter.

He just figured he ran away. Whatever. It happened at the job corps, I assume, here. So this guy, this Peregrine, just took the notes of this and added them to the files. He was just building the case file. He does note the Emma Beller thing, and he doesn't talk to Emma Beller, though. What the fuck? He just kind of lets it go again.

That was 1996. Nothing happens again until late 2001. Culver, Troy Culver, is 31 at this point. He's in trouble for assaulting a woman, a woman named Tanya Hall. Weird, this pattern keeps evolving. It's weird, right? She says about him,

quote, he tortured me. So yeah, it's not great here. Apparently she worked for an escort service and I guess Culver called and wanted her to come dance for him. So, yeah, it's not great here. Apparently, she worked for an escort service. Yeah. And I guess Culver called and wanted her to come dance for him. She told him there was no sex. He said, that's fine. And then when she walked in the living room and set her purse down on the couch, she turned around and Culver was holding a shotgun to her head and told her not to scream or he would kill her.

Jesus. He made her take off her clothes and yelled at her to hurry up, the whole thing. Yep. He had a gun and a roll of duct tape, which is a- He doesn't like it slow. Yeah. No. Get it off quick. Now, he said he was going to kill her.

He handcuffed her. He locked her in the bathroom. He assaulted her. He rifled through her purse. He did bad things to her, basically. Sexual assault, all these different things. And then he said he'd kill her if she called the cops. She called the cops.

Yeah. Smart. He didn't kill her. What they did was they arrested Culver instead, which what happens if you call the cops and say someone assaulted me? Right. Hopefully, if everything goes right, they ended up, they found the gun he used. They collect they had forensic evidence on him. Culver was complaining to the cops that he was a drunk and his wife left him because he was drunk and the whole deal.

That's a good time to rape a fucking escort. What a dick. He says the sex with her was consensual, but he's charged with first degree rape. Good. She says, Hall says, quote, I was terrified beyond expression. I didn't think I was going to make it out of the apartment alive. It was horrible. In fact, the worst experience of my life, which it honestly sounds like.

That's one story. Then the other story is it was consensual. It was consensual. It was somewhere in between. Somewhere in between. No, it was horrible. It's definitely her story. Worst experience of my life.

That takes Trump. It's definitely her story. Normal. Right. So three months later, though, they dropped the rape charge against Culver. He pleads guilty to third degree assault and unlawful gun possession. This sounds like they told her, look, honey, you're an escort. Right.

They're not going to believe you. No one's going to believe that you said no sex. It's so fucked up. You fucking know that's what happened. It's so fucked up. I mean, and it is 2004, but it's still probably what happens a lot of times. I understand why they're saying it, because the majority of civilization- Well, then bring it in and figure it out.

Let's give it a shot. Let's figure it out. Let's flip the coin. Let's play flip coin and see. I thought that's what court was. We're all going to get together, lay everything out, everybody's sides, and then we'll decide what we think is true. I think that's the whole point here. We'll talk it out.

So anyway, he ends up pleading guilty to third degree assault with an unlawful gun possession charge and gets 24 months plus community supervision he is not required to register as a sex offender what fucking lunatic after that the rape charge was dropped it's just assault oh he's a fucking menace now let's talk about march 2004 somewhere far away okay alabama okay all the way over in alabama is that where emma lives now uh then no no this is not this says these people we're going to talk about have nothing to do with any of this but it's something very very very important that goes on here alabama uh deputies here uh in in uh in alabama they arrest a marine a discharged marine uh who they suspected of molesting a bunch of 16 year old boys jesus okay they search his house his home they get his computer they find porn and news clippings and flyers about missing children,

including Walter Ackerson. What? Now they looked and found everything. They found no records tying him to Oregon at all. This guy, but, uh, because he was just a guy who collected missing kid things cause he was a

fucking creep. Uh, but the, what they ended up doing is because his name was on there, his name got circulated to Oregon, and so the file ended up on a fresh detective's desk. A guy named Mark Meester, a guy who actually does his fucking job. Great.

This guy, just a newly promoted detective actually here, and he's looking over everything, and he's looking at this case going, holy shit, what is going on? Somebody blew it. They didn't talk to anybody. They didn't force questions. This kid, they just took his word for it. No push to isolate the three suspects. No challenge of their stories.

They didn't say, hey, separate these three idiots and get them to tell on each other like you do, like I'm a fucking wire. Never mind. So, yeah, like you do. No one talked to at all. And they talked to five years later. They talked to the one guy, the Forsgren, Forskin. And now there's Jeff Callaghan. No one's talked to him at all.

No one talked to Walter Beller. There's a bunch of fucking. This is insane. Right. No search for the bridge. Emma Beller. Sorry. No search from the bridge. Right. No search for the bridge. Emma Beller, sorry. No search from the bridge.

Right. No physical evidence from the job course site. No forensics. Nothing. The ending investigation into the question, could he have been thrown off the bridge, they just said, probably not. Yeah. They were like, we don't think so.

I don't know. I don't know. It's possible, but nah. How many running backs have stabbed their wives? So, I mean, if you hear of one that does it, then do you go probably not? Probably not. That's perfect. So December 2004, he goes and finds Eric Forsgren.

Let's go find Forsgren and talk to him. He's easy to find because he's in the Multnomah County Jail. You bet he is. Yeah. Forsgren, when they interviewed him, he said, I can't believe that guy's still missing. What are you talking about? He said, I don't know what you're talking about. I figured he, you know, he said he-

He should have turned up by now. Skipped out of camp. They said they hitchhiked up to Newport. And, you know, they said that he called it, they shoulder tapped a guy who bought him beer. They were like, we'll give you five bucks if you buy us beer. So they got a homeless guy to buy him beer. He says that Culver and Walter had argued. Foreskin couldn't remember why.

He just said after that, after the argument, they saw some girls on the beach. They went down. They played some football, hung out with the girls, and left Walter with the beer. And Walter was acting like a jerk and all that sort of thing. When they came back to look for him, he was gone. So they said they always just figured him for a runaway. Quote, kids ran from Job Corps all the time. Yeah, but from Job Corps they run with their shit.

They don't run from dudes on the beach. So he goes on. He calls Karen in March of 2005 and tells her the case has been reopened. Nice. He said that there's never really been an investigation, he told her. I don't know what to tell you except that no one ever did anything and I'm trying my best. Meester Meester's got it under control. Meester's like, dude, I'm sorry that they fucking didn't even look at this.

Next, they go find Troy Culver, who lived in Prineville. Isn't that crazy, by the way? The other dude is in a county jail somewhere. And Culver, this guy's not. And this fucking nightmare is just running the streets somewhere. By the way, there's another guy who's not him with the exact same name. Brutal. Lives in the exact same town.

Oh, my God. Who is just as big of an asshole. Really? And I'm like, how is this not the same? And they look the same, but they're not the same guy. Wow. I don't know if it's like a cousin with the same name or something. Different birthday or something.

But he's beating the shit out of his wife. Fuck. There's all sorts of crazy't know if it's like a cousin with the same name or something, but he's beating the shit out of his wife. There's all sorts of crazy shit, but it's not Culver. We know for sure in a second. I'll tell you why. So he says, Culver says, he didn't know he was still missing, Walter. He remembers Job Corps thing. He said, yeah, you know, I remember his mom came in here and she was all upset.

I don't know anything about it. No big deal. Tells the exact same story. He also adds one other thing. He says, yeah, I heard from one of the kids that Walter, they saw Walter come a few days after they thought he disappeared and come pick his stuff up and left. So he tells the cop that. But he said, I don't know. I don't think I ever argued with him. I don't remember that at all. The part that Forskin said. So now callaghan here next uh he goes and talks to callaghan callaghan lives in washington state yeah uh talks to him uh he was surprised that walter was still

missing same thing said he couldn't remember much said he went to the beach exact same deal here so then he goes he's like okay no one is cracking on this uh let's try emma beller again in colorado so he goes to emma beller uh talks to. She said she remembered that she was at Job Corps. She remembered Ackerson was quiet. She said she never dated him, no matter what the file said. She said she didn't even remember that he disappeared. She said she was sorry she couldn't remember anything else. Sorry, basically, just nothing.

I don't even remember what the hell happened, which is insane. If you had a guy that you knew that disappeared, I remember people. That's just silly. So after a year of this, basically, he said he called up Karen. He said, look, which is insane. If you had a guy that you knew that disappeared, I remember people. That's just silly. That's a weird guy. So after a year of this, basically, he said he called up Karen. He said, look, I'm sorry. I don't know what else to do. I can't get any more information.

He said all available leads have been exhausted at this time, and it's going to be returned to the archives. Oh, boy. So that's it. Yeah, that's it. Case closed. He said can't do anything else about it. That's it.

Justice not served. Sorry. What the fuck? Are you kidding me? Do you think I'm going to do that to you, motherfuckers? No. No. This is small town murder, goddammit. What the shit happened? Do you think we're going to get no justice? Sorry, he's missing. Never found out. He might have ran away. Who knows? No, let's find out what happened here.

August 4, 2009, Troy Culver is at his parole officer oh for his regular visit yeah his parole officer's name is ann hawkins uh he's a registered sex offender by this point yeah because in 2007 he's convicted of encouraging child sex abuse and sentenced to 21 months in jail what an asshole also has committed burglary and uh another horrible assault in addition to the one that we already heard about. So nice guy. At this point, he's out of prison and under the parole officer supervision. And he's in drug treatment.

And they think he's making progress and everything else. Part of the 12 steps is atonement, as you might know. Admitting your past wrongs, apologizing, all that sort of thing. He's committed so much to this that he's going to atone. He says he has something to confess. Oh, my God. The parole officer listens and then says, one second, that's interesting. Let me get a friend in here to hear this, too.

You might want to say that again with Lieutenant Jimmy O. Daniel in the room here, Prineville Police Lieutenant here. He comes over, listen, and Culver said he beat Walter to death 20 years ago is what he said. The police officer wrote in his report, Culver told me he carried the body to a bridge. He threw him over the bridge into the bay. So, they bring

Culver in for a video interview and two more detectives come in. Still wanted to talk. Still wanted to talk about it. He's confessed, made a full confession to the whole deal. They go. They pick Culver up. Meester goes and picks Culver up.

He grabs a buddy of his, one of the other detectives, and goes and picks his ass up and brings him back. Culver again tells him the whole story. Next day, tells the story more again. Yeah. Now he's doing it. He says, finally, Walter's, he said he'd been whining all day at the beach. He got super drunk, and he said he was complaining about some girl or something that didn't like him or something like that.

Maybe Emma Beller. Who knows? He said he wanted to go back to Job Corps that day. He was tired of being there. He wanted to leave. Culver said he was super drunk, too. He was getting sick of Walter's bitching, basically. So he said what he did to quiet him down, he said he hit him, quote, again and again.

He's got at least 50 pounds on him, too, by the way. That'll do it. He said again and again and again. Three agains. He said he threw Walter against a tree, slamming his head on the tree. He remembered jumping on him more than once. What the fuck? At some point, Culver realized Walter waster was unconscious maybe dead and he panicked

he said he he threw him over his shoulder and carried him up to the bridge uh he said he couldn't remember whether the others helped but he knows it was a lot of work this is broad daylight jesus broad daylight he's carrying a child's body over his shoulder to throw over a bridge he said cars are flying by broad daylight wow normal no one Normal. No one stops. No one goes, hey, what's going on there? Is that kid okay? What the fuck goes on up there? Nothing. So he took him all the way to the middle of the bridge.

Yeah. We've heard this is a half mile plus long bridge. Again, why do you think I tell you things? He walked 1,800 feet with a kid over his shoulder. To get to here, how many cars went by him? Jesus. How many people saw this? He said he threw Walter over the edge thinking he was already

dead, and he said he thought he heard the body hit something like a pillar or a cable on the way down, but couldn't be sure because he couldn't see under there. Wow. He said that they all hitched back to Job Corps. Culver's clothes were all bloody. He said the other

two guys were freaking out, and he told them to shut up and never talk about it again. This is like some 50s movie. Shut up, don't ever talk about it again. I mean, if you see a guy do that, I don't want to be anywhere near him ever again. No, no. And I'm not saying shit. He said they just threw the bloody clothes in the dorm laundry with a bunch of bleach, and they all got their story straight. He wandered away.

We never saw him again. That's Job Corps. And break. Let's go. Wow. And Job Corps. straight. He wandered away. We never saw him again. That's Job Corps. And break. Let's go. Wow. And Job Corps. Go. So, Jesus Christ.

That's how scary that bridge is. Everybody's counting every foot on it. White knuckle on the steering wheel, not looking either side. Everybody's terrified of that fucking bridge. And what he does, he has this, I would be. Now I'm especially terrified. He also said that he drove Culver to show him where things happened. He showed him where the fight took place in a little wooded area.

He pointed out the bridge, the pillar where he thought he was thrown off. Culver agrees to take a polygraph test. He also agrees to tell his story in a recording. And this becomes important because basically it said, I told them everything in the story. I told the police everything, and you should tell them everything also. He's recording this for Forsgren and Callaghan, who Meester's going to go then talk to. That's great. Yeah.

So he goes and talks to Jeff Callaghan, goes to talk to him there. Callaghan says he couldn't even remember Culver's name. I don't know who you're talking about. Wow. Try who? I don't know. Really? I don't know who that is.

Yeah. I'm not sure about that. Oh, I remember that guy. For sure I remember that guy. He is an upstanding citizen at this point. He's been in the Washington National Guard for 14 years. He just returned from his second tour in Iraq. Oh, God.

He's got a 10-year-old son. He's got a lot to lose. He repeats the old story again. I don't know what happened. I saw Walter down there. He wandered off.-year-old son. He's got a lot to lose. He repeats the old story again. I don't know what happened. So Walter down there, he wandered off. I don't know shit. So Callaghan let him tell his whole story. I'm sorry.

Meester. They let him. Yeah, the police let him tell his story the whole time. And then they go, oh, yeah, hold on one second. Click. Yeah. And he plays Culver's message. I got a new mixtape for you.

Yeah. Yeah. So they tell him. And so then Callaghan ponies up. He said, quote, Troy and Eric beat him to death. I personally never touched him. Now, all of a sudden, he calls Culver T.C., which is now he can remember. Oh, yeah.

He's got a nickname and everything. Interesting. Oh, T.C. and Foreskin really let him have it. Yeah. He said that Walter, God, Culver beatter mercilessly for 15 or 20 minutes what the fuck 15 or 20 minutes shouting taunts and insults the whole time he said they'd gotten separated earlier and culver blamed walter uh he said that walter had been psychotic he said he took breaks in the beating my christ he would beat him and be so tired he had to take a break for a

while and then go back to beating him more. Can you imagine seeing that though? That's what a piece of shit this guy is. How do you see that and not fucking

go right to the police? Forsgren joined in apparently. Forskin joined in kicking him in the midsection apparently. Callaghan said he denied touching Walter

or helping throw him off the bridge. He said that it might have been he said he wasn't sure but it might have even been Forsgren's idea to throw him off the bridge. He says he doesn't even know if Walter was still alive at that point.

So, I mean, Jesus Christ, this this is fucking crazy. He took a polygraph also. He he failed the polygraph, Callaghan. But he said he blamed the whole he said he blamed guilt. And he also said he said this was the worst experience of his life, worse than his tours in Iraq, is what he said. Yeah, at least your tour in Iraq is supposed to be doing something good, you fucking jerk. Then he finally says why, because he tried to say why he failed the polygraph, and then he finally, finally just gives in and he says, quote, I think it was my idea to dump him off the bridge. He said he helped push Walter over, and he said he just pushed in the middle.

All three of them did. So, yeah, this is so now we have confessions. And touching the body and helping. And helping in all of this. All of it. You're just as guilty. Yeah. All three of them are pieces of shit.

So they try to 2010. They try to contact Maren Taylor, the counselor that we talked about in the beginning. Why'd you do this? Why'd you participate? She basically said, huh?

Who? I don't know what you're talking about at all. I don't know anything. Foreskin. Oh, those guys. I remember them. She said,

I retired and you need to talk to the Job Corps people that work there. Sorry. And now they go back to Foreskin and they talk to him again. But they bought that shit? She gets away scot-free? No, no, no. Call. And now they go back to Forsgren. They talk to him again. But they bought that shit? She gets away scot-free?

No, no, no. Callaghan, they go back to Forsgren now. They're talking to him. He said that he was drunk, but Walter was, he said he was like a puppy, Walter was. He was a tag-along kid. He said the girls kind of thought he was cute, like a little kid. Cute. Like, oh, look at him.

He's so cute. Yeah, he's adorable. Type of deal. Yeah. They said he got drunk, and they said he acted goofy, kind of drunker than he really was to try to get attention from the girls type of thing. So they end up playing the recording for this idiot too. Yep.

They end up playing the recording for this idiot and then he stops and he goes, he said, no, I told you what happened. And then he stopped again and he's sitting there trying to figure it out. Yeah. And then he said, and then he stops and he's like, shit, okay, never mind. He said TC got mad at Walter over something, hit him, knocked him down, kicked him in the head maybe two or three times, saying that Walter had lied to him. And he said everything was fuzzy after that.

But Foreskin does remember pulling Culver away, saying that was enough, and Walter was bleeding. He said they left him on the ground, groggy but alive, and he was sure that he was alive. He tries to say, you know, I didn't do anything. They said, did you help dispose of his body? He said, no, I didn't. And then he stops and he goes, no, just I didn't. And then he starts stumbling and he says, we knew Walter was dead.

So fucking spill it, basically. We know he's dead. Forskin wouldn't give in. He just said, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you here. So he agrees to take a polygraph test. He, of course, fails the polygraph test. They end up turning on the recorder, and they're like, listen to this.

And so, yeah, Forskin eventually says Walter got beaten up and carried him up the span of the Newport Bridge and tossed him over the side. Jesus. They then talk about getting him up there on the bridge, and he said they threw him off and there was a sound. He said, quote, it was just bong. You could hear it. You know what I mean? Like if you toss a rock off a bridge and it hits the side, you can hear something hit it. So they threw this poor kid off of there.

I mean, that's awful, man. He said, you know, he remembered it was afternoon. Cars are passing. He had guessed probably 400 or 500 people saw them doing this. My God. 400 or 500. Now, one person was the slightest bit intellectually curious about why a small child was being carried bloody up to the fucking middle of a bridge. And thrown over the side of a fucking bridge.

Yeah. He said they just, it was like pack mentality, the kid kept saying, or the guy at this point. He said, you just, pack mentality. He said nothing was planned. It just happened. He said, quote, we didn't set out to beat the shit out of Walter. He said, TC hurt that kid. Really?

I mean, he hurt him. So the whole thing's a fucking, this is. And they're all just going to try to blame TC. And they think they're getting away with it. Well, TC was the aggressor. That's the thing here. And that's fine. Yeah.

I mean, so they're trying to say like, yeah, it was mainly him here. But you guys fucking participated way too much. They talked to somebody later. They talked to a friend of Callaghan's. And he remembered hearing that Forskin and the others talk about this back in the day. Said that Forskin claimed that he slung Walter's body over his own shoulder. And he remembers doubting it because it seemed like a hard thing to do. But he said, you know, that's what the guy told him.

They basically found out Forskin said that he cheered along TC beating him up, beating Walter up because they had gotten separated and it was Walter's fault. So Forskin said he remembers cheering, kick his ass. He lied to us. Wow. So, I mean, you got to feel I would feel horrible about that. I don't know what this guy does here. What they said was they didn't. This is ridiculous, man.

They they all knew that he was dead. Forsgren says that he remembers, you know know, now he says he remembers a half hour of Walter being stomped from face from head to waist. Jesus. For a half hour. He says he remembers Culver hitting him with the tree branch. Oh my God. He said he had stopped bleeding. That's how much they were beating him.

He had stopped bleeding. Callaghan thought he was dead. He couldn't imagine anyone surviving such a beating. That was the whole deal. Fucking horrific, man. Fucking horrific, this poor kid. And you all thought that he was going to be the murderer of the junior, didn't you? You're like, oh, he's going to be a scumbag. No, this poor goddamn kid.

I feel terrible for him. So his remains are never found. Of course not. Now Meester's got to go tell his mom. Yeah. He's got to go tell Karen about this. I've got closure for you. Yeah, he goes and tells Karen this.

She said that she remembered, quote, he told us that Troy had confessed to the murder. They told Walter Ackerson Sr. also. Prosecutors talk to her and they say, look, this is a 20-year-old case. Right. There's laws from 1990. Right. This means that you're probably looking at a 10 year max for Culver 10 years 10 years and probably nothing for the other two my Christ basically it's best to try to get them to testify against

Culver and get him in for 10 otherwise they're all going to stick to their stories and we're going to get nothing yeah so that's the deal here so July 2010 a Lincoln County grand jury indicts Troy Culver finally of one count of murder and one count of manslaughter for poor Walter Thomas Ackerson Jr. Both Forskin and Callaghan are given immunity to testify against Culver. Okay. So that ends up happening. Culver is given a bail of $1.25 million, which he is not going to meet. I'm surprised they didn't, like, they don't even, Callaghan and Forskine don't even face charges.

Nothing. Usually it's like you get charged and then you get no sentence. But they get no charges. This doesn't even go on their record. This is terrible. You hire one of these guys, you can't find out that, oh, they killed a kid when they were fucking 20. By the way, they participated in a murder of a fucking 16 and then covered it up unbelievable covered it up they asked karen about it and she said this whole thing's bittersweet she's happy that

she sucks her kids dead yeah i guess happy that some justice is being done but not all of it they asked her a reporter asked her what she thinks of the other kids of two of the killers going free she said quote sucks, doesn't it? It's not justice. So you're like, yeah, what the fuck, man? What a vile fucking end to this story. This is so terrible. And it's best up because she has really her life, too.

She's done a lot. She's the director of the Pierce County Housing Authority at age 59 at this point. And she's going back and forth to these court appearances, wants to see these people locked up, obviously. October 8th, 2010, Culver is sentenced to 10 years in prison with no chance for early parole. His earlier felony convictions of assault and encouraging child sexual abuse made that no parole for him.

So he's in there for at least 10 years while he's in there, by the way. So he's going to get out in 2020. Look out for that while he's in there for at least 10 years while he's in there. By the way, so he's going to get out in 2020. Look out for that. While he's in there, this fat bastard, because we don't have, I can't tell you where Culver is buried, or not Culver, where Walter is buried, because he's not buried anywhere. His body's still never been found,

which is horrible. God damn it. Culver is in prison on prisoninmates.com looking for ladies. Get out of here. This fat fuck is looking for ladies. And I'm sorry if you're that fat or whatever, but this guy's a fucking asshole. He says he's a Christian on there. He's looking for women. So Christian.

Want to hear what he has to say? I do. Hello. Nobody write this asshole for a positive reason. Write him and say, fuck you, but don't write him for anything. I don't even know if I want that. I don't want him to have any fucking nothing. Eat shit, Culver.

Die. Hello. My name is Troy, and I'm an Yeah, fuck him. No attention. Eat shit, Calvin. Die. Hello, my name is Troy, and I'm an inmate at Snake River Correctional in Ontario, Oregon. I'm serving out a sentence for murder slash manslaughter and would very much like to get to know people for friendships, possibly more. I enjoy lifting weights, reading, playing cards, sports, and bettering myself any way I can. I love classic rock like Led Zeppelin and scary movies like Hellraiser and any kind of generally fun activity. If you like what you hear and would like to contact me, please do so. Holy fucking shit.

Then he has a common interest. Favorite food. Favorite TV show. He loves seafood and he loves Breaking Bad as a TV show. His favorite quote is, i am who i am yeah a fucking dick a cocksucker popeye is your favorite quote you douchebag favorite movie is boondock saints i don't care if he didn't kill anybody if he didn't kill anybody i still want him in prison for 20 years for fucking liking that piece of shit i watched that movie a bunch

of times and i liked it people were really into that This movie is a long way to go to save a fucking bar. Lists his hero as his mother. Isn't that fucking nice? Fuck you, Trey Culver. I'm sure Walter was, too, you fucking jerk. You asshole. Unbelievable. And the other two guys seem to at least, I don't know, but this Culver is the ringleader.

They're dickbags, too. They are. They're complete assholes. Fuck them all. Fuck them all. No, they're complete assholes. This story had so many assholes in it so many everything from the dude in alabama with the kiddie porn and probably running for office somewhere the job corps people the cops they're all assholes this is the ultimate why small town murders are fucking why there's

bumbling and there's bumbling everywhere but this special kind of bumbling can only happen in a small town. Unbelievable. If you like that story, you crazy bastard, get on iTunes. You can give us five stars on there. It really, really helps us out on the business end. Help us out with that funky algorithm. Also, if that is not enough for you, please get on

patreon.com slash crime in sports. You can make a donation there or you can do it at PayPal doing a one-time donation using our email address Crime in Sports at gmail.com. Also, for all of your merchandise needs, you can head over to Crime in Sports dot Threadless dot com. Live show in Detroit. Yes. February the 16th with Dan Cummins. Yes.

We have a stand-up show as the early show and the late show is a live podcast. It's going to be so fun. A hybrid of Small Town Murder and Time Suck. Something completely unique. We're Time Sucking a Small Town Murder, we'll say. It'll be the three of us and we're going to have a ball. It's going to be a lot of fun. Tell everybody, as you heard from the podcast, we're comics, all of us.

So the audience is better for it. We want the audience. We come alive and kind of come out of our shells. Not that we're in a shell, obviously. We pretty much say whatever we want. But the audience is good for us. So it's going to be a great time. So have fun.

Come to that. Also, two days later, get over to Boston. Crime and Sports at 4 o'clock. Small Town Murder at 7 o'clock. But that show is sold out. So we have added another show at 1 p.m. in Boston. So get those quickly because I don't know. One, four, and seven.

One, four, and seven. Every three hours you get us. I am going to be killed, base. I'm going to die that day. And finally, Phoenix, Arizona, March 25th at Stand Up Live. Get those tickets. There's links in the show description to all of this. Those are selling like crazy, by the way.

Yes. So thank you guys so much. Thank you. And get those quick because like we said, that's our hometown, so we know a lot of people. We have friends and family, and a lot of people are going to hog some tickets up. So get those now so you don't lose out. But there's people coming from all over. We've got friends coming from Seattle, man, from Portland. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, thank you guys for that. It's bananas. It's going to be awesome. If you would like to get a hold of the show, that is easy to do. You can do that on Twitter, at Murder Small, Facebook, it's SmallTownPod, or like we said before, CrimeAndSports at gmail.com. And we have an amazing list.

Holy shit. Of executive and just producers and amazing people who were so kind to us in the last week. And thank you guys so much. Jimmy, why don't you hit us with that list of superstars right now? Yeah, man. Thank you guys so much for giving a shit about us and actually pushing this thing along. I really appreciate it.

Jess Landgren in Australia and Chrissy Ann Costaldi continue to be the most amazing people. You guys are the best. They're so sweet to us. Thank you. Every week sending something that helps us tremendously. Really? The executive producers of the show.

Thank you both so, so much. Dana Grayson sent another donation as well. Thanks, Dana. I appreciate you, brother. Thanks, Dana. James Cook, Yuwa Tarowski, Rob Medersky, Mariah Menhir in The Dutch Girl. Oh, she's awesome. I hate calling her The Dutch Girl. It's not what she is. That's her identity

now, though. I don't think she minds that. People just want an identity. Thank you, Mariah. I appreciate you. Kristen S. Hagee. H-A-G-G-E. Double G's always throw me when there's just an E on the end. What is that? Yeah.

Hagee or Hagee? I'm not sure. Regina Egan. I believe she's one of the Egan sisters. They're terrific ladies. I think they're both coming to Boston, by the way. Cool. Tyler Sheets.

Carol Braun donated through Patreon and went over to PayPal. That's so amazing. Thank you so much, Carol. Thank you, guys. Laura Sheets. Carol Braun donated through Patreon and went over to PayPal. That's so amazing. Thank you so much, Carol. Thank you, guys. Laura Korsington, the Ron Santos podcast. It's a Cubs podcast. I think it's Wazurski is the one that I'm ruining his last name, of course. But he hosts it.

Go listen to it, the Ron Santos podcast. It's terrific. Ron Santos. It might be San Rantos. San Rantos. Ron Santos,. It's terrific. Ron Santos. It might be San Rantos. San Rantos. Ron Santos, the actual player. I meant with an apostrophe S. Oh, like his podcast.

Right. I don't know what it's about. I thought you meant he was a Mexican guy named Ron Santos. I haven't listened to it. I probably should. It might be the San Rantos. You sure it's not a Hispanic guy named Ron Santos? I think it's San Ranto.

That's what it is. Oh, okay. San Ranto podcast. Gosh, all right. See, I'm an it's San Ranto. That's what it is. Oh, okay. San Ranto podcast. Gotcha. All right. See, I'm an asshole. There you go. That's what it is.

That makes sense. The San Ranto. That's what it is. All right. It's a Cubs podcast, and he loves the Cubs. He lives in Chicago, so go listen to that. No, what is that? Bully?

I didn't write Bully Arrieta, did I? Is that really? What did I do? That's not nice. It's your handwriting. I'm ruining it. I think it says Bully Arietta. Jimmy acts like somebody broke into his house and wrote names down in a strange hand.

Read these, dickhead. Best of luck. Gina Testino, Bella Chadwell, Megan Strapik. That's the Boston girl. Thank you, Megan. Stephen Mace, Tyler Jorgen, Stacey Huffaker. She constantly sends a nice little donation. We appreciate that Jorgen, Stacey Huffaker. She constantly sends a nice little donation. Yeah, we appreciate that. Thank you, Stacey.

Rachel Dooley, Kasten Johnson. I think it's Kasten Johnson. I'm pretty sure it's Kasten. Kasten Johnson. He's in, I think, Texas? Yeah. I can't ever fucking remember. There's so many, it's hard to keep it all. It's hard. Thank you, guys. Sherry Bullock, Kat, it's K-A-R-T. She's in another country also.

She's cool as shit. She's terrific. Thank you, Kat. Iceland? Yeah, I think that's it. Iceland or Netherlands. I can't remember now. It's somewhere fucking cold. I know that.

She's always wearing a beanie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's cool as shit, though. Thank you. Talena Jensen, Kevin McDonald, Rachel Smith. There are two Rachel Smiths. I don't know if they're the same or if they're different. Just common name.

Rachel and Smith could be so easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel bad for you, Rachel, same or if they're different. Just common name. Rachel and Smith could be so easy. Yeah, I feel bad for you, Rachel, but not as bad as this. Exactly, a crime and sports reference. James Feeder or Felder? Shit. I think it's Felder. James, you're a hell of a dude.

We love you. I have shit penmanship. Melissa Hoover, David Moe or Mao, M-O-W. It could be either. Jin Jai Liao. Fuck. Jin Jai Liao or Lao. It-O-W, it could be either. Jin Jai Lao, fuck. Jin Jai Leo, or Lao, it's probably Leo, right? L-E-O-W, it's an Asian name.

I'm not going to get it right. I'm going to ruin the whole fucking thing. Yeah, you're going to destroy it. Jin, you're terrific. We're not ready for that. You're having a hard time with American names. Let's not get into the Asian culture. Lynn Luffman. Oh, cool.

Lynn Luffman, that's right. Corey Browks, that's the Rachel Smith. There's the other one. So if there's two of you, thank you both. Thank you both. Lynn Luffman. That's right. Corey Browks. That's Rachel Smith. There's the other one. So if there's two of you, thank you both. Thank you both. If there's only one of you, thank you twice. Thank you twice. Right.

Ashley Fleming. Emmy Dumont-Guthier. She, I think, is in another country also. Canada. I got it. Yes. Thank you, Emmy. I appreciate it.

That was a nice little donation from Canada. Dana Grayson. Of course, I already said that. Elizabeth Armour. Her last name is spelled like Under Armour. Thank you, Elizabeth. Ashley McNeely. Thomas William.

And Nitch. Nitch. I think that's Nitch. It might be Witch. And Witch. That's awesome, actually. I hope it's And Witch. Like a sandwich?

Yeah. And Nitch, I think. Morgan St. Clair. Jonathan Elton. Justin Rine. And he snapped a screenshot of his donation on Patreon to me on Snapchat. That was awesome. Thanks, Justin.

I appreciate it. That was a nice one, too. That's so cool. Katie Garland Noble. Rachel War or Rochelle War. I think it's Rachel War. Jennifer Shirley. Desiree Kissling.

Rachel Kane. Denise Whitehouse. That's a kick-ass name. Julie Hinton. Frank Liggins or Ligons. Jessica Britton or Brittain. I think it's Brittain. It's two Ts, Britton or Brittain? I think it's Britton. It's two Ts, but it's Britton.

Anyway, it's probably Brittain. Yeah, I'm thinking it is. I'm second guessing. Forcing her name to be something it's not. Clinton Grout, Kristen Rose, Natasha Kale, Gisa Shantz, Brant Taylor. He's donated last week through PayPal and then signed up for Patreon. Thank you, Brant. Thank you.

Janice Hill, Kynie Fryner. Kynie Fryer? Fryer. He's donated last week through PayPal and then signed up for Patreon. Thank you, Brant. Janice Hill. Kynie Fryner. Kynie Fryer. You wanted to put another end in there. Kynie Fryner. It makes you want to say Fryner. Kynie Fryer. Shelly Trolean. That's right. Rick Freeman.

Joseph, no, Troy Joseph Graham. And then Mahmoud Rahman. Thank you, Mahmoud. He donated a few weeks in a row and then came back for Patreon. Appreciate you. Jenny Nichols. Julie Smallman. Or Smallman. Tay Smith.

Kathleen Thill. She's terrific, by the way. She is here locally in Arizona. How cool. She's going to come to our shows. I think that was true. I think I got that right. Hopefully.

She may be somewhere else and coming to another show somewhere else. I live in Michigan. What are you talking about? She sent us GIFs. Oh, thank you. And she signed up for Snapchat because I said I was on Snapchat. That's cool as shit. And she said I forced a 40-year-old woman, whatever, to get on Snapchat.

Thanks, I outed her. Nothing further than that. I forced a 40-year-old woman to get on Snapchat. Don't force women of any age to do anything. How's that? Brie Ryan in Montana that got the tattoo. Hey, Brie. She signed up for Patreon.

Thank you, Brie. Yeah, she's so cool. Thank you for everything. Madeline, Melissa Freeman, and Kelly May. And then I just got a Twitter notification that somebody else just got another tattoo, and it says yay down the side of her hand. That's cool as shit. So many A's, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's how we've put it on a t-shirt. Thank you all so much for giving a shit about this. Not just giving a shit, but actually giving a shit. You guys are doing it. So thank you so much for helping us. And listening is huge, of course. But this part is just beyond.

We really do appreciate it. You guys are amazing. Thank every single one of you. And what if one of these fine people wanted to get a hold of a fine gentleman such as yourself? You can find me on Twitter, Snapchat, and Instagram, at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks. Follow me, play along. I love hearing from you guys. I love seeing your dog pictures, all your cat pictures, all your pig pictures.

Whatever you got. Send pictures. People snap me goats. It's fucking fantastic. I got goats snapping at me. What are you doing? I got goats. They're everywhere.

There's fucking goats everywhere. I don't know what to do with myself. I'm like, hey, I got goats snapping at me. What are you doing? There's fucking goats everywhere. I don't know what to do with myself. What about you? If they give a shit enough to contact you and tell you that you pronounced something wrong, how can they tell you? They can get a hold of me. At Jimmy P is funny, or you can try to spell my last name,

copy and paste it from the show description would be a better, more advisable route to go. You can find me on Facebook, get me on Twitter, do all that. I don't do Snapchat because I don't have time for Twitter and Facebook. Never mind Snapchat. All it would be is me frustratingly looking for shit and typing and fucking getting angry And then I get messages all the time.

Where's James' Instagram? And I say, it's fucking not there. Best of luck finding it. I have one, but I don't use it because I don't have time. I just don't have time for it. I don't. I got this. You can either talk. I can either use it because I don't have time. I just don't have time for it. I don't. I got this. Right. You can either talk.

I can either talk more or I can do this. Right. So if I don't do this, you'll have no reason to talk to me anyway. So really, I got to do this first and then hopefully find time for that. We'll work it out. But thank you, guys. I do appreciate you guys. And I do read all of your messages and I try to get back to everything I can.

Right. Try to jump in there from like I'm taking 20 minutes, a break from this, and I'm going to dive into Twitter. Thank you guys so much for doing that, though. We appreciate it. We can't do the show without you guys. And thank you so much, honestly, for everything you guys have done. It's been a year now of this show. And, you know, 51st episode.

So next week will be the 52nd, the one year. So thank you guys for being cool with us for an entire year and taking us from nothing, from nobody. Is anyone going to listen to this? We're selling out live shows and adding extra shows in Boston. It's all because of you guys. And we know that. Don't think for a second we don't know why that is.

It's because of you guys. Nothing goes underappreciated. Not us. So until next week, guys, it's been our pleasure. Bye. guys it's been our pleasure hey guys I just want to tell you real quick a web support is brought to you by web and writer comm if you're looking to looking to build a website, go over to webinwriter.com. They build websites that look great on all screens, graphics, logos, engaging content. Go over to webinwriter.com or go over to facebook.com slash webinwriter.

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Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love

to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.