Small Town Murder - #514 - Onion Of Lies - Agency, Iowa

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

This week, in Agency, Iowa, a mystery unfolds, when a woman is killed in her own bed. Her husband claimed to be in the shower, when the act occurred, and blamed the couple's PTSD & paranoid schizophrenia stricken war veteran neighbor, who they've had fights with, over deer carcasses, and misplaced feces. It only gets messier when affairs begin to surface, throwing even more suspicion around, in all directions! A wild story!!Along the way, we find out that in some small towns, watching children dance is considered "something to do", that you should always have sex with your mistress, before you think about leaving your spouse for them, and that having a burner phone ALWAYS looks suspicious!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head? Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Binge all episodes of Hysterical early and add free on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo.

Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane bonkers edition of Small Town Murder Express. Again this is 20 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag because it's just crazy the story it unfolds and it's it's an onion

wrapped in a riddle Put all inside of an enigma. It's wild stuff. So we'll get into all that Little form of a swan. Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah, like like you just got a leftover fancy dinner like a tin foil tail. It'll dip its head and flap its wings. And lobster will come out so that said definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows especially September 20th State Theater Minneapolis. Here you can be our biggest show ever if you sell this bad boy out. Let's do it let's get those tickets right now it's selling very well so thank you guys for doing that. Minneapolis, you can be our biggest show ever if you sell this bad boy out. Let's do it. Let's get those tickets right now.

It's selling very well, so thank you guys for doing that. The Pabst is just, they only have single tickets left the next time. It's crazy. That's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, last time, you sold it out way quicker this time. You guys are amazing. Thank you for always hanging with us and always, always being there for us.

Shut up and give me murder.com. Also listen to Crime and Sports if you don't listen to that and listen to your stupid opinions Are you our other two shows which are hilarious stuff check those out and also obviously the regular small-town murder show on Wednesdays listen to quick show note Definitely if you haven't done it go into if you listen on Apple podcasts upper right hand corner on our little show page dot-dot-dot automatic downloads that every time every time they update it they stop they like kick that off so Isn't that annoying nice of them so turn it back on if you want the show to automatically download so it's there patreon.com

Slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material anybody five dollars a month or above you get everything Hundreds of back bonus episodes new ones every other other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder. What do they get out of that? Eeps, everything. All of it. You get both, you get it all. This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, it's just going to be fun, making fun of failure. We're going to talk about the most inept teams of all time, some of the biggest losers who've ever existed, and it's going to be a lot of fun.

Police championships. of all time, some of the biggest losers who've ever existed and it's going to be a lot of fun. At least championships. No, we're talking like bad seasons, you know, no wins, that sort of thing. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk, let's get into the whole Laurie Vallow, Chad Daybell mess. We're going to talk about what the crazy beliefs they were into. We're going to make fun of the brother for his comedy because we've done comedy in the same venues as him and Phoenix and all that.

We've got a lot of good inside stuff for that. We'll talk about it all there. That's patreon.com slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. That's it. I think it's time everybody. We got to dive right in because we got a lot of show here. So let's get into it.

I think it's time. We all take a deep breath. Let's all do this arms to the sky. Yeah. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Alright. Let's go on a trip shall we? We shall. Let's do it. We're going to Iowa. Let's go. Let's go. That's one of those you say we're going to I own people go Okay All right, I guess is it shucking season. What are we doing down there? Is there only one show? Oh there is that why we're going doing it. It's agency. I over going to agency agency spelled like you know an agency Like a talent agency. I of course had to look that up to make sure

there wasn't some weird, it wasn't like a gentgy or some shit, some weird local pronunciation, but it's agency. It's in southeastern Iowa. It's about an hour and 40 minutes to Des Moines and about two hours and 15 minutes to Davenport, which was our last Iowa episode, episode 465, chainsaws, torsos, and murder tacos tacos, which was I give myself credit for that name

That's a good name for sure population of this town currently 473 Very small town. Yes, very small town We're some weird field of dream shit going on here. So very small Median household income here is less than the national average it's usually almost seventy thousand dollars here it's fifty two thousand six hundred four dollars so. Well those four hundred thirty seven people

are doing great. Well the median home price is one hundred forty one thousand one hundred dollars so. There's no market. You can afford that. No there's nobody there. It's four hundred seventy three people and you probably got your house from your parents you know what I mean. Wow. It's one of those. you probably got your house from your parents. You know what I mean? It's one of those. They do have a motto here and we've heard, you know, there's Minnesota nice, they say, which by the way is 100% factual. Those people are certainly, yeah, goddamn nice.

And they mean it. That's the thing that's messed up. Kind people. They absolutely mean it. It's not phony at all. There's also Iowa nice because Minnesota and Iowa are in a constant battle for some reason. Oh God, the two states that hate each other the most are Minnesota and Iowa. It's the weirdest, the nicest people in the world, never have a bad word about anybody. You say, what about those people from Minnesota? Those cocksucking

non-corn have an asshole bastard. They go crazy. You're like, what happened? The battle of bake you a pie. It's so weird. Yeah, I'm nicer. No, I am. No, fuck you, I'm nicer. Then they fight each other over who's nicer. Wow. Their motto here is Agency Nice.

So they're breaking it down into the town. That's what they say. And right on their website, they have a design with a little smiley face thing and everything. Oh yeah. How'd it be nice? History of this town, it's called Agency

because an Indian Agency was established here in 1838. What is that? Basically- Is that not good? Yeah, they would put an Indian Agency around and that would be government people to basically keep an eye on the Indians at the time. That's what they would do.

Yeah, I don't like that. And then they moved them all the local tribes to Kansas eventually. So- Wow. And they what they were doing. Yeah. I don't like that. And then they moved, they moved them all the, all the local tribes to Kansas eventually. So wow. And they just called it agency. And this town was founded on the site where the agency was from 18- Real nice guys. Yeah. In 1843. That's how it started. Agency nice. Get the fuck out. That's how it started. Agency is the resting place for Chief Wapello, which is the name of the county here, I believe.

I think it's Wapello County. And he was second in command of the Sac and Fox tribe. And Chief Wapello is buried next to his good friend, General Joseph M. Street and his family. They got buried together, which is very strange. In 2001, an F2 tornado ripped through agency, screwed everything up, knocked all sorts of shit down, and killed two people.

Just the two? Just the two, yeah. This is definitely, there's some tornadoes that come through here. Reviews of this town. That's just a nice breezy day in Arkansas. Yeah, in Oklahoma, they're like, shit. F2, shit. Half two, shit.

Put your belt around a pipe and ride it out. What's wrong with you people? We'll fly a kite and that's shit. That's nothing. It's perfect for kite flying. We play football on that weekend. So reviews, there's no reviews for agency, but the town right next door that's the bigger town where like the school is, where all the people from agency went to and stuff That's that's a tumwa. That's next door. Oh you are a

OTT umwa a tumwa. So here is some reviews for their five stars I enjoy a tumwa Idaho. This is the town Iowa not Idaho This is the town where I grew up There are not very many things to do but the friendliness of the community makes up for it. There are great coffee shops, concerts, and theater productions for all ages. I love this town! Exclamation point. They love the town. Great concerts in a time. It's wonderful. Five stars. I really like the cheeseburger selection at the wall in the Walmart frozen food section. I

Also, really enjoy walking around my house. I like five stars I like the selection at Walmart five stars. They got the bubba ones. They got the other one They got the White Castle for Christ's sake. Here's four star I don't know if something got in the water and messed up these people's brains or what, but they don't understand the assignment. Here's a four star quote, I've worked at Applebee's for three years now. That's the whole review. Okay. I don't get it.

And then maybe the weirdest review we've ever seen ever. One star, very shady town to live in. I've seen some weird things in Atomwa, but the weirdest thing I saw by far was an officer pulling up under the Market Street bridge and dropping a large black trash bag off into the ditch. What? The officer then sat there staring at me for almost 20 minutes while I fished. Just eyeballing him. Am I going to have to throw another bag or are you gonna shut the fuck up? He is just eye fucking me from across the river here. Eventually I left.

I watched an officer dispose of somebody. Probably evidence or a person. Eventually I left because I knew I'd just seen something I wasn't supposed to. Welcome to Otomwa everyone. Okay, I'm worried. Otomwa, where you see some shit you probably shouldn't. You didn't want to see. I didn't want to see either.

I love the cop. The cop doesn't go there's a person fishing. I won't do that. The cop just goes, I'm going to mad dog this guy for a minute. I'm going to throw it and then stare. They'll leave eventually. Who are you going to tell? You know what I mean? Next things to do in this town. We have the the Viva Atomwa International Festival

Yeah, and the whitest place that's ever existed Let's mix two cultures together. That's good. It said with people coming from all over the world calling Atomwa home It's a true cultural melting pot. Is it? I don't think it is. We have everybody from super white people to, you know, a guy who, you know, that guy might have like Greek a couple generations back maybe, something like that. We have a variety of white people. Come celebrate this diversity at the festival here.

That's what it says. Viva Tamwa. Viva Tamwa. It's a it says. Viva Atamwa. Viva Atamwa. It's a day filled with music, performances, food, children's activities, and community, and I have their schedule. Uh oh. And they have, first of all, at 12.05,

an invocation by Pastor Jocelyn Gordon. What, we're gonna start the day with some prayer? Start it off with some prayer. Some fellowship around here. Then the national anthem. Yeah, why not? After that, of course. That, for some reason, takes 15 minutes, the national anthem some prayer. Start it off with some prayer. With some fellowship around here. Then the national anthem. Yeah, why not? After that of course. That for some reason takes 15 minutes, the national anthem. They're going to do it real slow.

Second verse same as the first. Well they're going to do some like R&B like, do like it's really going to draw it out. We're going to stretch it. A couple of different variations. We're going to get like Christina Aguilera in there to sing it. It takes a while. They're going to let that girl from the All-Star Game sing it twice. Then the mayoral proclamation at 1230.

This is an exciting day, isn't it? What is going on? Then at 1235, new citizens recognition presented by the League of Women Voters. This is getting really exciting. This is very specific. I got to like cool down. This is getting too much here. Then there is an Atomwa area community chorus. So that tells me old ladies singing. A ballet

thing after that. Then the Akoli dancers. The Chuukesee dancers and singers. Okay. Guardian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo at 430. We're just gonna fight a bit after that. We've got four hours and nothing's happened that's fun yet. Well then five o'clock, Second Baptist Church. Okay. Okay. Five fifteen Karen youth dancers, 530 Congolese singers, 545 Son Peruchos, and then 7 o'clock go the fuck home, it's over. It's at 7pm, end. Hard out on this one, like a kid's birthday party. Hard out. Get out.

Union employees, we leave. We paid for two hours at the trampoline center. Get the fuck out. That's it. I heard nothing fun. Nope. Sounds like a great time, doesn't it? That said, let's talk about some murder here.

Some people who had an even less good time than people who went to that festival. Let's talk first about Seth here. Seth Teschel. T-E-C-H-E-L. Or Teschel. He's born in 1990. And he comes from a good family in this town. His grandfather's the former mayor of Ottumwa. Grew up here.

Grew up here, oh absolutely, went to Ottumwa High, grew up in, or doesn't grow up in agency, grows up in Ottumwa, and then ends up in agency. He's gonna meet at a very young age here, like 15, 14, he's going to meet Lisa Caldwell. She's born in 1989 and they are high school sweethearts. I mean, we're talking freshmen, sophomore and through. They're that couple that was together all through high school. Jesus. And then they actually went and got married afterwards.

Yeah, corn town key to the city. Man, I know I remember those people that were just the Long-term relationship is like how does that work? In high school you go out with someone for a month, you know what I mean? And you're like, I don't know whatever the one that I watched Happen and then I mean you follow everybody from high school on social media for a while and then eventually they start dropping off Yeah, whatever and I watched the meltdown. It's don't do that You follow everybody from high school on social media for a while, and then eventually they start dropping off, and you start on front, whatever.

And I watched The Meltdown. Don't do that. Don't marry that person. It's gonna end bad. I watched it. I watched it unfold. The one in my high school is a guy I still know and is a pretty successful comedian now, actually.

Is that right? He married his? No, he didn't marry her. He didn't marry her, thankfully. Just stayed with her for a long time. No, it's a different one, but whole high school, the entire fucking time. It was like, dude, everyone thought they were getting married, but no, that's good. So Lisa, by the way, in high school is a state champion bowler.

Really? Yes, and that's how they met. They met at the bowling alley where they both had part-time jobs. Okay. And that's how Lisa and. They met at the bowling alley where they both had part-time jobs. Okay, yeah. And that's how Lisa and Seth met each other. She was on the high school bowling team in Ottumwa, which won three high school state bowling titles. So she's like a-

State? Bad ass bowler, yeah. No shit. You could like take her and win some money with her and shit. Like, yeah, here's my girlfriend and have her just be like paint her nails going I don't want to go bowling and then be like so think you can beat us. Okay Is just having your own stuff because

You're bowling with the with the shoes and the ball like I can't get my mind off of how much funk of other people's Microbes and bacteria transferring into your skin, crawling under your nails at the moment. Keep your hands away from your face. Disgusting. Yeah. So she's pretty cool like that. Lisa, by the way, Seth's parents loved her, loved Lisa, and Lisa's parents loved Seth. So this was like both families on board for this perfect little Midwestern couple and even it's happening in the 2000s. This isn't like, you know 1975 or something

This is you know 2005 2006. They're all they're all thrilled here What do you want to bet their their wedding vows had some bowling references, you know, they yeah Finding you was like hitting a 710 split of my heart You you are my perfect game. You are my perfect game. You are my 300. I now pronounce you 300. Set's mom said she was part of our family. And also even Set's close friends didn't mind Lisa hanging around because she was so cool

and she could like do all the shit that they did. She was a really good marksman, hell of a shot. So when they go out shooting or hunting she'd be right there being the best shot of the group, also really good at fishing and her hand eye is crazy. Knew her outdoors shit like she was like basically like another like a guy who you marry. Yeah a guy with tits. So this is- Another dude with amazing breasts. This is not a bad thing at all. And she's pretty too, she's a pretty young lady. 2010, 2011, they're trying to find careers here

in their early 20s, basically. I think she found one already. No, no. There's money in bowling. No, there's a lot of money, I'm sure, in bowling, but Seth becomes a volunteer firefighter, and then he was set to begin working as a jailer in the Wapello County Jail. This is the same department where Lisa's father Todd is a sheriff's deputy and an epitome yeah and Lisa gets a job as a jailer as well and she is also a volunteer reserve deputy

they're both trying to get onto the police force and this is how you do it. Wonder if she got that job. Yeah, weird, right? And him, strange. The dad got them both the job here. She did go to Indian Hills Community College and Buena Vista University. She earned a degree in criminal justice

with a minor in psychology. Those are helpful. She hustles. She served an internship with the Iowa Department of Corrections and was a correctional officer in Washington County, as well as served on the Wapello County Sheriff's Reserves. So, Lisa's busy. She's doing the thing. Yeah. She's like Deb from Dexter, where she's like her dad's a cop and she wants to follow in the footsteps and she wants to be

one of the guys. That's what she wants to be. You know, she wanted, she wants to be her dad's favorite son is what she's going for and she's doing it as a daughter and it's fine. So October 11th, 2011, Lisa and Seth get married. I mean, they're 21 and 22 and they're getting married and couldn't wait till November and make it 11 11 of 11. No, no, no, we're going October. That's when everyone was doing it. Jesus. It's free. Yeah, that was the most popular that and put up there. James, you think it was the

chapel was that jammed? I think so. Well, you figure what? There's probably out of 450 people, you know, you got like a dozen dating couples, maybe. I mean, there's a bum rush for it. You never know. So they get married and they get a trailer on a piece of land outside agency. So 21 years old. They're starting fresh. Mad meager. Yeah. Trailer in the middle of nowhere is how they're starting because that's affordable.

I'm sure. That's how you do it. Yeah. That's how you do it. Lisa's dad, Todd, said of the couple you have the all-american boy and the all-american girl and they get married and they're having a baby because eventually they're gonna she's gonna be pregnant here. Wow. And you just think wow nothing bad could ever happen and then you turn on an episode of Small Town murder and realize no no That's how these are you're a deputy. You know that it you know, right?

Jesus Christ, so January 2012 Lisa gets pregnant somewhere in here and She'll find out. Wow. You are. Yeah, two months later. They really once later Consummated as fuck. Now, in this trailer, outside of this trailer, there's neighbors that are, there's open land, but you do have neighbors. And one particular neighbor they have a little bit of an issue with. His name is Brian Tate, he's 57 years old,

and he's a Vietnam veteran with some fucking mental issues. Really? Yes, he's got some history of some serious PTSD, and he's been diagnosed as a schizophrenic as well. Fantastic. So yes, a schizophrenic PTSD having Vietnam veteran lives next door. Yeah, no shit.

He lived with his mother and his brother in the next door property. Also, and this is obviously perfectly great, he's also a huge gun guy as well. Super into guns as someone with mental illness and this is obviously perfectly great. He's also a huge gun guy as well. Super into guns as someone with mental illness and a penchant for flying off the handle should be. Paranoia's a good coupling with that.

That's perfect, they go together like fuckin' peanut butter and jelly, don't they? They're perfect. So March and early April 2012 in this area, Brian Tate and Seth get into some disputes. Okay, some is over garbage here that ends up from Brian Tate's property, ends up on Seth and Lisa's property,

and a deer hide thrown onto Brian Tate's property. They said a deer hide was thrown on there. So Brian Tate's property. They said a deer hide was thrown on there. So Brian Tate. Disposed of a carcass, yeah. So Brian Tate threw it back, and then he threw it back again. So it was like they went back and forth on it. Oh, shit.

So Tate complained, actually, Brian Tate complained to law enforcement several times, including to Lisa's father, which I don't know how far that's gonna get you. But apparently the two guys took turns throwing this carcass back and forth onto each other's property and then Brian finally reported that and other incidents as well Brian Tate said there's also rocks have been thrown at my home and feces as well what one thing to throw rocks but once you're throwing

poop that's another story. Who says we'll throw poop at them? That'll get them. Who's poop? Yeah, are there monkeys that live nearby anywhere or an orangutan? Is this people poop? Yeah, no it's poop. It's poop. No, it's like dog shit and animal shit. You can't do that. No one's shitting their hand and threw it over there. Yeah, they're just throwing dog shit at them. Just throwing shit at the house. And now Caldwell, Lisa's dad, responded to a call himself and urged Brian Tate, who had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and knew it, he said,

listen, I know you're upset, just let the authorities deal with it, we'll take care of it. Todd Caldwell said, quote, he says he thinks these are acts of terrorism. That's what Brian's going, they're terrorists, these are acts of terrorism. Oh boy. Yeah, and so Caldwell, the father, said kind of a bell goes off, like terrorism is kind of a weird word to use, he says. It's an extreme word to use.

Like yeah, this guy might not be all there is what he was you know figuring out. So while they talked the Lisa's father said that Brian Tate had a shotgun on the ground nearby and that unnerved him a little bit because it seemed like well why do you need to bring your shotgun to talk to a sheriff's deputy that you called. That's a little weird. So basically he said to all the other deputies, if you ever get called to his house, approach with fucking caution because he's going to have guns nearby and he's not stable. So watch out there. Now this goes on and on through April. They fight. They fight. May a little bit too. They fight. bit too they fight. May 26th okay Seth this is 2012 now Seth says he got up and he took his dog out and he got in the shower he said when he was in the shower

he saw he when he got back out of the shower he said he saw an outside door open he said he heard a loud boom while he was in the shower so he was like what the hell is that so he got out the shower. So he was like, what the hell is that? So he got out of the shower and he saw the door, like the front door open to the outside. And he said he grabbed his gun and ran after it and there was nobody that ran out there and there's nobody there.

So he calls 911 at 523 because after he checks the front door, he said he goes in the bedroom and sees his wife Lisa on the bed, bloody and non-responsive. Oh my God. With a large wound to her torso. So he calls 911 at 523, he's sobbing, and you can hear him on the tape sobbing,

my wife's been shot, my wife's been shot, oh my God, do you need help? Yeah, it's a five month pregnant woman. Yeah, and any normal person would go, oh my God, and he's sobbing when she's been shot She's been shot. She needs help. So the Paramedic who arrived the first one said that he was in a state of almost hysterics or panic He was just as most people would be I would think

Another deputy that arrived said he was doubled over. He was bent at the waist and appeared to be sobbing like there's actual pain in your gut from that, which, that's visceral, you know? That's what I mean. You would probably be figuring out if you have to throw up. So the first deputy at the scene told the dispatchers to call Lisa's father, because he's a deputy. And you know, it's like.

That's like the last person you want there, right? Exactly right. And the deputy said, in hindsight, I wish I wouldn't have done that. You don't do that. I saw a lot of things that morning. Now because of me, I'm asking him to, you know, come out there. He's going to have to live with some of the images that I do. But it's worse for him because those are his daughter.

Right. He doesn't need to see that. A, it's a conflict of interest. Don't have him investigating that. Oh God, no. No. B. It's gonna fuck that man up. His career's over. Not only that, his wife Amy, who is Lisa's stepmother, was an emergency room nurse. So she hears about that. She rushes to the scene too to try to give medical aid to her as well. And Lisa's stepmom, Amy, said, I ran in there and you can tell that she was gone. I held her hand and rubbed her belly and just said, my Lisa,

my Lisa. And nobody was able to save her. The paramedics said when they went to pull the covers off of her to try to give her CPR, they realized that she was torn apart. Yeah, there's nothing to compress. Nothing to do. Nothing you can. you can, she's obviously dead. She's full of holes. So Seth is on the porch. They said he was wearing a cargo shorts with a belt and underwear, no shirt or shoes.

And he remained outside while the emergency responders attempted to resuscitate Lisa, but obviously no. Lisa and the unborn child are both killed in this. Yeah. Because it's a shotgun wound to the torso. Oh, Christ. Not great. At that point, the deputy said he asked Seth what happened.

And Seth said, this is the deputy said, quote, he told me he was in the shower, that he was getting ready for work, and he heard a gun go off. He ran to the bedroom, noticed Lisa was just lying there, grabbed his gun, ran to the front door of the trailer and noticed it was open and nobody was around. Yeah, that's his story. Now it's a single what they believe to be a shotgun blast that did this one close range shotgun blast, which you only need one of those. If you, if you do it at a close range. So they said they found no signs of forced entry or struggle at all. She was killed in her sleep

She never even knew it happened. She was sleeping and then dead. It was that quick now Seth provides the agents with a list of five guns He keeps in the house two handguns and three rifles and they're all accounted for and none of them have been fired recently You know in the last whatever, few days or whatever. And he says that Lisa and he were married and they had no significant issues, they were happy. Everything was fine when they asked. They said, well, who may, anybody who could have done this?

Obviously, she's not the first person you'd think of as a target, a young pregnant woman. I'm Dan Tbersky. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

Like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down-low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem?

Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Was there a crime committed? As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't.

Guilty By Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people in the United States. What are they guilty of? You can listen to Guilty by Design exclusively and ad free on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. He said immediately, take my crazy ass neighbor because of the things he's been saying and doing to us.

Honestly, this guy, he's off his rocker. Go get him. Go get him right now, he's telling him. Go fucking arrest him. It's him, it's him. Well, we can't do that. Yeah, he said that, he said it was my crazy ass neighbor who thinks we're terrorists.

It's that fucking lunatic. And he said that we were going on this escalating dispute. There's a dead deer thrown back and forth in the middle of the night, we're doing this. And he said, Seth said, I bet he came over here because he's been on the property multiple times. He goes, I never witnessed it, but I can tell when things have been fucked with. And Seth claims that he and Lisa would, quote, come home at night.

And Tate would be sitting out there in the middle of his field on his four wheeler pointed in their direction, just staring at them. Sitting on a quad out there. Yeah, apparently staring is a big thing. If you're a cop that dumps evidence you just stare at someone. That's what you do. If you're just being weird you just stare. No talking, no waving, howdy, none of that shit.

So much for nice. No shit. So Seth also said that it felt like Brian Tate had been standing right against their fence line. He said though again he never saw him. He said on one occasion they had called you guys to report that dog shit and rocks had been dumped on his property which I didn't do that obviously. So they said okay what did you do exactly today Seth?

Let's go over your day. He said I woke up around 4.15 or 4.30. At the scene. He'll say 415 later on he'll say 430 So we're not sure well. I mean if you have your alarm set for 415 you got up at 430 you get up at 430 Yeah, we don't know if he got up at 415 or 430. That was the point. He takes his dog outside He said that the dog didn't growl or bark while outside and he believed the dog was looking though like something might have been outside or was acting like there was something fishy going on. He's got a suspicious dog here. Real suspicious dog. He's like, I'm not going to bark yet, but you know what?

My hair is up. Let's just say that. You know what I mean? It's a golden sketchy is what it is. Seth, do you feel that? it's weird out here, right? That goes yeah, buddy. It is. You know come on So he said that's when he said that he thought maybe Brian Tate was hanging out along his fence line at that point

Maybe that's the dog thought so Seth went back inside Reset his alarm for 5 a.m.. And laid back down. What's he gonna get, 12 minutes of sleep now? What are you doing, man? Once you take the dog out, it's over. You're lying to yourself. You're lying, yeah, you're fooling yourself. You either go back to sleep and you don't wake up till eight? Yeah.

You're not gonna get 12 minutes. No, God no. So the alarm goes off at five, he gets up and he lets the dog back inside and he notes that he probably didn't lock the door at that time okay probably left it open just because the sun's coming up it's a sun's up the dogs out in and out you do who cares so he said Seth got in the shower while Lisa stayed in bed he said

the bathroom window had no curtains so he believes that anyone outside the home could have seen him inside and knew he was in the shower. So you can see like his head, it's got one of those windows that's like up high in the bathroom. Why wouldn't you put a fucking curtain up there? Why are you displaying your upper? It's probably one of those long skinny tall ones that are way up high, but still.

Still! I want privacy in the shower. I want none of me exposed to the world. I pulled that fucking window out and put one of those like frosted ones in. Yes, that's what you do. I don't want anybody seeing in there. Hi guys, I'm in the shower.

That's weird. So he said approximately five minutes later he heard a loud noise that took a moment to identify as a gunshot. Like he heard the noise, like what was that? That was him loud, was that a gunshot? What? Yeah, gunshot is one, boom, you go,

gunshot, what the fuck was that? An explosion. It's fucking loud. Yeah, did the stone just erupt? Yeah, a transformer just pop right outside, what the fuck just happened? So he said that he heard the noise and he got out of the shower, grabbed a towel,

ran into the bedroom, turned on the light. The dog was in the bedroom closet, he said, scared and shaking. Not a very good guard dog, I would say at that point. Thanks puppy, good job. Geez, you have one fucking job, thanks a lot. And so he said that Lisa was lying on the bed. Seth went to Lisa, shook her and asked if she was okay.

He said she moaned a little bit and he saw that there was a hole in the cover so he pulled them back and saw a hole in Lisa's bra. What a weird thing to say you notice, a hole rather than blood. Yeah, where's the, yeah. What's he doing? He would say because the blood's going to be spread out around the hole so you go, oh shit, blood. You barely see the bra.

That's so weird. Then he said he heard a noise like a little thud coming from the living room. So he grabbed grabbed his gun from the nightstand, took it out of the holster and ran down the hallway. He said no one was in the living room, but the front door was wide open. So he ran out on the porch, but he didn't see or hear anything. So there's that he said that he heard the gunshot five to ten minutes into his shower and on another time he said that he heard it no more than five minutes. So, first interview five to ten minutes, 415, next one 430, no more than, and your memory

changes over time by the way. Especially if something traumatic happens, that can be normal. In an early account he said Lisa wasn't breathing, and in a later account, he said she moaned also. So those are weird discrepancies. He said he went back to the bedroom after he ran out in the living room. Lisa was unresponsive, not breathing, had no pulse.

He called 911. He said he was going to perform CPR, but he couldn't because he froze. Yeah, but he hadn't said a word about blood. That's so weird. You know, there's fucking blood all over the place. Shotgun blast to the torso. It's going to tear it apart. Yeah. A lot of blood. He said instead of performing CPR, he put his underwear and shorts on,

which were lying next to the bed, laid out for him. And then he just waited for the emergency responders. He just didn't do anything to help her he said. He froze but he put his shorts on and his belt and got that on. What a wild response. So strange but then again in crazy stress situations people do what you would hope a guy who's trying to become a cop and who's a fireman would have a better stress response than this. What if this guy's he's a a fireman, what if someone's in the fire, I went to save him but I just froze, I don't know, I couldn't do it, fucking crazy. What if you pull up on a car accident that's really awful and you gotta do some shit?

That's, especially in small towns, these firemen act as paramedics too, they come and show up in car accidents and shit. So the cops want to talk to the neighbor, Brian Tate, obviously. Brian welcomes the deputies into his front lawn, says, come on in, because he goes out and says, what the fuck's going on here? Even gets them some lawn chairs, tells them, have a seat, cup of squat, fellas. He said he'd been home asleep at the time of the shooting. He said, quote, I was in bed.

And they said he was very cooperative, very polite. He said he was at home in bed at the time of the shooting, which both his mother and brother, who was, his mother was up at 5 a.m. Oh, mother and brother lived there with him, so they got witnesses. Yeah, and they said he was, but he lives out in the garage, so it would be hard to see. Brian lives out in the garage, so it would be difficult to see, but still, they said that they didn't hear him up or hear any commotion or anything. Tate then went into how he believes that the county sheriff's department had not fully They said that they didn't hear him up or hear any commotion or anything.

Tate then went into how he believes that the county sheriff's department had not fully followed up on his complaints about vandalism on the property. We got a dead woman. We got other shit going on right now. Later we'll deal with that. But for now, you know, well, yeah. He said that Seth was the one behind the incidents and he's complaining to the cops, this asshole next door.

Then Tate said, it didn't seem to me like you were investigating much. It felt like, or I felt like you guys would have been more present in this area if you were. What are they gonna do, sit outside your house and wait for someone to throw dog shit at it? That's not gonna. Perhaps if you guys had been here

investigating dog shit throwing, she'd be alive. Yeah, staking a joint out, you know. So they asked Tate how he kept guard on his property. Basically, how do you keep your property safe? And he said he walked some, but mostly just watched to make sure no one was causing trouble. There's 400 people in this town and you live on the outskirts of it. Who the fuck is coming through causing any trouble? There's those Johnson brothers that come by once in a while, tear things up. So he said that when they asked if he knew if Seth owned guns, Tate said he wasn't sure, but he said that he has heard shooting

from the property. I mean, probably everybody out here should have. And he's trying to be a cop too. So I would assume they also asked him about his own firearms Brian Tate's and he said he had guns Including two shotguns and because they said you have shotguns and he said yeah And he showed them some slugs he had on him some shotgun slugs Yeah, and he said the guns were for defensive purposes only quote. I don't trust people anymore. Oh Boy, so they said did you have anything to do with Lisa's death? He said, no, I did not. He said, if I was sworn on a stack of Bibles in the court system, I would still say, no,

I didn't do it. Wow. So he said, absolutely not. He did have these shotgun shells there. He also says, by the way, he's been taking his meds daily and his imbalance is doing well. So he's not off his rocker so they said that um the shotgun shells appeared to be old with faded markings the one he showed shows the cops here but they were the same brand and color as those recovered uh later on so involved

in the murder so that's's interesting. They talked about how that they had gotten a call saying that, at this point, a neighbor calls the police department saying that Tate had called him to talk about the relationship with Seth. And when asked about Tate's comment that he was ready if someone started shooting at him at his house that the neighbor said yeah Tate's kind of paranoid that's how he is yeah that's a wild thing to be ready for right there's nobody around where do you where do you who do you think is attacking that's what I mean where they are they're bringing guns of it and they're coming strong yeah so

they asked about his mom. His mom called Brian Tate a calm, quiet guy until this vandalism started. Oh. This has driven him nuts. Yeah, he said ever since then, he's just been like a different person, paranoid and crazy. And he, Brian, says, I was Mr. Nice Guy for a long time.

It done me no good. It done him no good, Jimmy. Being nice ain't a long time it done me no good it done him no good Jimmy being nice ain't agency nice don't do you know good done me no good he said people took advantage of me so I'm kind of taking a different approach to life right now I'm a dick to everyone I'm just I'm gonna loaded weapons and staring at people from four-wheelers when asked if he had anything to do and he said no though the, the cop who interviewed him said after we interviewed Tate,

we were 100% confident it wasn't him. Really? That's a crazy thing to come away with. From that conversation and go, obviously innocent. He didn't do it. Wild. So, but then they find a friend of Seth's who said that, yeah, we messed with Brian Tate.

We did it on purpose. We do it all, we go over and drink at his place and we're like, let's throw some dog shit at him. A guy named Tyler Batterson said that Seth asked him and three of Batterson's friends to quote, mess with Tate. This guy says that he and others dumped five gallon buckets of dog shit on his porch

and on top of his car, onto the guy's blazer. Five gallon buckets on the porch and on his car, all over the top of his car. Where do you get five gallon buckets of dog shit? Yeah, what are you doing? Why are you collecting that? How many dogs do you have? So they told Seth what they did and Seth laughed,

and then the following weekend, this guy and his two friends threw rocks at Tate's garage and shed and told Seth what they did and he laughed too. So, they start to look a little closer at Seth, the police officers, and he agrees to sit down for a formal interview, obviously, and he reiterated the story he told 9-1-1. He'd been in the shower, you know, a guy came in, I suspect it's the neighbor and shot him. So they said, okay, what about any other suspects?

Did she have any problems with coworkers? And Seth said approximately four or five months earlier, Lisa received a text message from a coworker saying something to the effect of, hey, thanks for last night. And Seth called Lisa on it and she told him she had given a co-worker a ride home because he wasn't feeling very good And that was it and Seth said he wasn't angry about that Yeah, so because they were going into what kind of problems you had anything. They also asked him how to Rate he and Lisa's happiness on a scale of one to ten with ten being the happiest Which is a very give give your relationship a Yelp review.

A post-mortem Yelp review, would you please? All right. He reported that he and Lisa had been an eight or a nine on the night before the shooting. He said at first they were at more of a 10. He's saying that, probably more of a 10, but maybe an eight or a nine that night. So they said that it had been reported, they tell him it had been reported that he and

Lisa had an argument that night, but he said Lisa had not been upset but explained that she was kind of giving him shit because he had not wanted to listen to the fetal heart monitor. Why would you not listen to the fetal heart monitor? No, I'm cool. No, just listen, it's your baby's heartbeat. Man, fuck that bitch. Man, I don't want to listen to it.

I don't want to be reminded that my life's about to be ruined. I don't want that motherfucker thinking he's too important right away. See, that's the thing. They find out it's a girl too she's having. Ah, Jesus. Didn't want to hear it. Seth claimed that Lisa wasn't serious about it but was kind of confronting but not really. Like she's breaking balls about it, which no pregnant woman's breaking balls about that. They're going. Why don't you want to hear our baby's heartbeat? What's your fucking problem?

What's your problem weirdo? That's strange Then this is less than 12 hours after the death. So it's not even fucking 5 p.m. Yet Okay, people are thinking about what they're gonna have for dinner Already, you know at this point and investigators speak with friend of Seth's who reveals a huge piece of this puzzle. Uh oh. Seth's been having an affair with a co-worker. Oh Seth. Named Rachel McFarland.

And a close friend here of this guy said that, yeah, this has been going on. Colton Millard is this guy's name. No, his name is Judas, you son of a bitch. He said, don't tell it. Well, he kept, he didn't tell the wife. He told the cops after he held it till after the wife was dead. That's pretty good. Yeah. I'm not going to lie to the cops for you about this shit. I'll lie to your wife, but not your cops. I'll keep your secret secrets right up until they're fucking murder.

Right. Right up until I'm in a homicide office interrogation room and then it's all bets are off at that point. So he said that this guy said that he disapproved and he told Seth he disapproved. He said I told him that he was stupid and he needed to stop and he knew he was stupid and he shook his head like I know. So yeah, he also said, there's also, you guys, I don't know if you know about this, about Seth, but he's got a second phone, he's got a burner phone. Really?

He's got a track phone here that, he said, I know that, because once he took it out of his pocket and showed me a topless picture of Rachel McFarland. He's like, check out this chick I got on the side. Not only is he cheating on his wife, he's a dickhead who shares the pictures. Yep, who shows guys at work at the jail. Wow, look at the riz I've got. I've still got it, man. Look at that, man. I can get nudies. Yeah, meanwhile he's 22, you know what I mean? Right. He's 22, pulls 11-year-old pranks, throwing dog shit at people too. Throwing dog

shit and showing, look at these boobs. What an asshole. You wanna see boobs? So when confronted about this by the police, Seth's story started to change a little bit and he said, okay, yeah, I've been having an affair. I've been involved with this McFarland lady. He said, I told her I wasn't leaving Lisa, or he said, I told her I was leaving Lisa,

but it was a lie. I wasn't really gonna leave Lisa. I was just trying to fuck this broad, you know what I mean? So he downplayed the relationship and insisted that although they had kissed it had never been more physical than that and He later admitted also that he may have led Rachel on by falsely claiming he planned to leave his wife So they said any other extra marital affairs Said no. No, I've been I just been texting Rachel around January 2012 around when his wife Was pregnant and said that he wasn't seeing her. It wasn't anything. Nothing was coming of it That's what he said at first and he said their interactions were limited to the exchange of text messages in the vein of hey

How was your day and hey, what's up? Lisa found out about the messages but Seth claimed that he let Lisa read the messages and stop talking to Rachel and everything was fine now. She saw it wasn't a big deal and he said it you know whatever. That's an interesting thing to say because that can't be corroborated. Exactly, she's dead. So over the course of the interview he keeps amending what he's saying to reveal a little bit more and a little bit more.

Shit. At first, he said it was limited to, hey, what's up? And later admitted that he had hugged and had kissed her on the cheek and once on the lips before eventually confessing that he had kissed her like a half dozen times, maybe a dozen. Oh, boy. He denied that they ever had sex. He did admit that just two weeks before the shooting

he and Rachel had been together while Lisa was looking for him and his friend had to cover for him. He said, I know I wasn't going to leave. I couldn't leave. And then he said that there was obviously more to this Rachel thing and that the agent would see on his phone that McFarlane was under the impression that Seth was leaving Lisa. But he denied it was his intention. He said, I wasn't. I couldn't.

Lisa and I had arguments over it. You know, who doesn't? We've been together for seven years. We've been together since fucking freshman year of high school. He also, Seth admitted that Rachel was under the impression that Lisa was going to be packing up her stuff and leaving either the night before or that day. Seth claimed he wasn't going to leave Lisa and just planned to tell McFarlane it was over

and saying, he said, I was gonna tell her I married Lisa, I made a commitment, we're having a baby and that's that. And then he abruptly ends the interview. He goes, that's enough, I'm done talking to you guys now. I feel real bad right now. Yeah, this is not good. Now, at the same time, they're searching Seth's vehicle and they're finding his phone,

and they're seeing it's way more than hey, what's up. It's sexually explicit text messages. She's sending him pictures of her pussy, he's sending her pictures of his dick. Oh no. It's all of this stuff going on, yeah. You can't send the dick pic, man, you can't do it. He sent it, lock, stock, and barrel. Oh no. It's all of this stuff going on, yeah. You can't send the dick pic, man. You can't do it. He sent it.

Lock, stock, and barrel. Oh no. It's only 2011, maybe, or 12. Maybe he didn't know yet, I don't know. Yeah, he's learning now. Graphic language, pictures of private parts, mainly his private parts. I don't know if, we know that she had no shirt on,

but I don't know if she sent downstairs pictures or what. We're not positive of that. Maybe she did, I don't know. Sometimes you leave that to mystery. I don't know if she sent downstairs pictures or what. We're not positive of that. Maybe she did. I don't know. Sometimes she'll leave that to mystery. I don't want to besmirch, you know, maybe she's maybe she's a little more prude over text than we think. A little more modest. Yeah. He said in one text that he dreamed about her and he misses her and all this. So apparently, they talked to Rachel and Rachel says that Lisa had called her at one point. Oh shit. Very pissed off.

I imagine. And asked her not to talk with her husband anymore. So after that Seth bought a track phone and bought a burner and said basically to Rachel would you talk to me if I got a burner and she said sure. So she and Seth met at the Pioneer Ridge Nature Center where they hugged and kissed each other. And at one point Rachel asked him how he was going to end his marriage.

This by the way, she's living with a boyfriend at the time. She has a live-in boyfriend, Drew Ballard. Wild. But toward the end of April she moves out anticipating the next level with Seth. She's moving out, yeah. She moved out of that. So she actually got out of her relationship.

She at that point right around the middle of May struck up a relationship with another co-worker. That's a girl. And said, well, Seth wasn't available right then. This other guy was. So if Seth became available then I'd move back with him, but this guy was available for now. This is so messy. It's so fucking 22. It's so 22. You know what I mean?

So at one point, Seth told her, just give me two more weeks. This was in the middle of May. Two weeks, I'll fix everything. Because he was mad she was seeing another guy. So he was pissed off. Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggye. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery

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boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask. Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a coverup to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion, and after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. McFarland texted Seth and said that she and another guy had hung out and she was really

starting to like him. And he told, and McFarland told Seth that it was unfair for her to be alone and felt that Seth should try to be with Lisa at least till the baby's born. May 24, 2012, Rachel texted Seth and said, you're telling her tonight? And then he texted back with wish me luck That's May 24th McFarland texted Seth and told him her parents wanted her to stay away from him if he wasn't gonna get a divorce They haven't even fucked yet according to him and there is and she'll say it too they never had sex Wow, and she's already saying my parents are saying you should do this. We haven't even had sex yet.

My parents said this is godless and that if you wanna be at Christmas, you gotta be single. Jesus, but she said she was excited for Seth that he was going to leave Lisa and she was expressed love for him. Later in the day, she expressed some doubts that Seth would actually talk to Lisa

and told him maybe he should rethink it. He said, what the fuck? Why? And she said she felt like she was making the wrong, like he was making the wrong decision and didn't want a divorce. And Seth countered saying he doesn't think divorcing Lisa was what Rachel wanted him to do. So she said she responded. Ah, yes, it is. I keep looking at our pick. She asked Seth if she asked Seth if she, if he really wanted to be with her. And he responded forever and told her that he loved her and to wish him luck. So May 25th, they exchanged texts about Lisa coming home to gather her belongings. And she asked Seth to be there.

He said that she asked Seth to be there with her while she packed. The morning of the 26th of the murder, Rachel texted Seth and said she heard what happened to his wife and that she was there for him and if he needs to talk, she's there, but she's also going to try to give him some space for a minute, you know, because it looks bad. Like a normal person would do with somebody with some guilt. Yeah, no shit. Because the day before, on May 25th, Seth told her, well, we talked. I told her I wasn't happy. She got mad, then sad, then I slept on the

couch and all she wants is for me to be there tonight after work when she packs. He said, so that's that. That's what he was going to do. The last message that he sent, McFarland The last message that he sent, McFarland sent to her from his track phone said, I love you, 1 54 p.m. May 25th. So then they get another friend of his, a friend and former roommate of Seth's, tell the investigators that he'd left a Mossberg 500 shotgun in the couple's trailer when he moved out months earlier, but the gun wasn't on the list that Seth provided to law enforcement and they couldn't find it. He said, well, it's over there. I never got it back.

The following day, they returned to the crime scene and searched more of the property where they discovered the Mossberg 500 lying in tall grass north of the trailer on the opposite side of Tate's house, by the way. So it wasn't like in case I needed it for Brian Tate real quick. You don't leave a shotgun in the grass? No, that's crazy. And they said it was dry too, which was weird. It didn't do on it or anything.

They said that they found out from the autopsy that Lisa was killed with a shotgun and the bullet fragments were consistent with a Mossberg, while none of Brian Tate's firearms were a match. By the way, this before they found the shotgun, they staked out the shotgun because they knew where it was. They knew where it was. They left it there. And a guy, a deputy was camouflaged and hidden in the bushes when he saw Seth and his father

approached the area. He said he heard the elder, Teshel, admonish his son and yell at him. And he said, yes, he responded that that's their job. He was telling his son that whenever they got near the tree, they sure seemed to walk around a bit. And they said, did Doug Teshel respond to that? And he said, yes, he responded. That's their job, buddy That's what the cops do

Yeah, he said come on now, you know if that you were on the other side of it What you would do if you were wearing that badge, what would you do? You do your job, right? So they he was like walking around there Lisa's wake comes up as he leaves Seth leaves Lee Lisa's wake. They cuff him outside and arrest him Oh, that's a they cuff him outside and arrest him. Oh that's ugly. Yeah outside the wake. Yep and September 2012 by the way Brian Tate dies in a sleep of heart failure a few months later so they're just gonna say he did it he's not there to defend himself now which is tough. He can't do

that can you do that is that a play you can make? I mean, yeah, you can say this guy that died, do you? He said, they said that the sister, Brian Tate's sister, said that her brother's reputation was ruined by these accusations and believes that he died of a broken heart. She said, Brian was a very loving person. Yes, he was mentally ill, but like he told his doctors, just because I'm mentally ill doesn't mean I'm a murderer.

That's a good point. That's a good point. So they said, we wanted the jury to see Mr. Tate, the prosecutor said. It was bad for us and good for them. It was great for them. Now they have this ghost boogeyman. February 2013, Seth goes to trial on first degree murder

and non-consensual termination of a human pregnancy Which is that is one way to put shooting a woman in a pregnant woman in the stomach. Yeah Sential fantasize that's yeah, that is a that's a non-voluntary abortion is what that's called. It's not good So they said the prosecution's case was largely circumstantial While the defense's whole case was Brian Tate, Brian Tate, Brian Tate, Brian Tate, Brian Tate. He's crazy, he's the next door neighbor, these two are a loving couple.

Who's more likely to do this? So the defense wants to bring up everything, but the judge rules out a lot of what the defense hoped to introduce about the mental and physical health of the neighbor. So they the jury is not allowed to hear that he's a paranoid schizophrenic with PTSD and all that shit. They're only allowed to hear about some incidents that happened. The dog shit. He got mad. He called the cops that kind of thing. That's it. Dear carcass. Yeah. So the defense pointed out that neighbor that Tate is a suspect that they overlooked in a rush to charge Seth with this. So yeah, they said that Tate was odd, but they never had any problems with him.

Drusilla said, I thought he was weird. I'm sorry, but that was my impression of him. I just thought he was weird and very odd acting, but they never had an issue with him. So they said after the murder, Lisa Caldwell, Jack reported after the murder of Lisa, Jack reported this, the other part of this this couple a phone conversation with Tate To police he said his words were if the sheriff's department had done their job. None of this would have happened Which sounds like I wouldn't have to kill anybody. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like a threat So on the stand a co-worker tells the jury that Seth was in love with another woman

This is another friend of his says that Seth didn't want to divorce because his wife, uh, because he didn't want to pay child support. And he also didn't want to hurt his relationship with Lisa's father, who kind of helped held his, well, hopefully he's trying to get a job as a deputy and he needs this guy's help. So, uh, he said that this coworker said about a month before Lisa was killed, Seth told him, God, this is a whole, my life would be easier if Lisa just died in a car wreck. Oh my God.

Which is not a good thing to say out loud and then have your wife die. They get Rachel McFarland in there, which made Seth have to just drop his head off. She said it went from just normal conversations to flirtatious text messages. It became more sexual, asking me to send pictures. Yeah. Are these your tits? Yeah. Are these your tits, ma'am?

Apparently, McFarlane told the jury here that Seth used a fake email name, Rick Jones, by the way. This is alter ego here, old Dickie J, and got a prepaid cell phone to contact her so her boyfriend at the time and his wife wouldn't find out about their affair. If you're hiding it from two separate people, maybe just forget it, it's more trouble than it's worth. According to Rachel, Seth was going to ask Lisa for a divorce.

She said he wanted to be with me and his relationship with his wife wasn't working. She said just days before the murder, Rachel said that Seth told her that he didn't want her talking to other men. She said he would just get angry and jealous. That's the point when he told me to just give him two more weeks. So the defense team said that no, he was starting a just give him two more weeks. So the the defense team said that no he was starting a new job in two weeks that's what that was all about which makes no sense that doesn't why would he say that to her? So the

defense also asked you've never had your clothes off when you were with him and she answered no. Wow. So this is sexless. Imagine doing all this without even knowing if the sex was any good. Like it's not even like oh my god it's just I'm addicted to this crazy fucking animal sex I have with this woman. Not even that. No. Wow.

It's just the idea of maybe it is. So strange. She said the affair was physical She said quote he I mean wanted to be with me. He kissed me. He touched me So this does not look good for Seth at all this whole thing. No, this is super bad So the verdict comes in and it ends with hung jury get out of here How 11 to convict, one to acquit. Yeah, I guess so.

Fuck, it's all it takes. One person was a holdout. That's it. And apparently at that point, the town kinda lost its fuckin' mind. It lost its agency nice status because basically people were upset, so they started fucking sending the jurors Facebook threats.

The jurors were on this jury. Eleven people voted to convict and they're getting death threats, like it was their fault. It's a hum jury. I tried, man. I gave my part. I voted guilty. What the fuck do you want from me? So October 2013, they try him again.

Now this is the same lawyers all around. He has the same lawyer, same prosecutor, same judge. Everything's the same. Same judge, same place. One more time. But with the publicity, it's moved to Henry County though. Because people are getting, nobody wants to be on a jury because if they, God forbid, find a innocent or hung jury,

they're gonna get death threats. So attorneys sparred over the significance of flirtatious and explicit email and text messages between Rachel and Seth. And the prosecutor said that if you look at the text messages over the course of seven months, the messages read like a countdown to Lisa's death. Just as the noose is tightening in this relationship.

Yeah. But the defense said those communications don't prove that he killed his wife. He said he even challenges the jury, quote, are you mad at what an idiot this kid is? Yeah, are you mad? That's hilarious. Your own lawyer's like, obviously my client's

a complete moron, clearly. Look at him sitting there. Look at the dumb look on his face. You wanna go over and just smack him, don't you? Sitting there thinking with his dry dick. With his fucking dry, limp, soft dick. So are you mad at what an idiot this kid is? Are you mad enough to ignore the evidence though, she says.

You can't convict him just for being an idiot and having an affair. So the defense attorney said that the police investigation excluded and ignored several key areas. The police didn't test his sets hands for gunpowder. Why they didn't do that? I have no fucking idea. That's wild. That's great because he said he hadn't fired a gun in a week. Yeah, but he's the only person in the house. I don't give a fuck when he says he fired a gun. I'll tell you if he fired one today.

Everybody gets the test It's that's so easy to do too. That's so simple And so it's two weeks. He said he hadn't fired a gun and they didn't fucking test his hands So this one goes to verdict again here goes to the jury and the jury comes back can't make a decision hung jury How great nine three this time get closer This is unbelievable. How great? Nine three this time. Get closer.

Nine to convict, three to acquit. So now there's three people getting fucking death threats probably. So the prosecutor said quote, there was no question we would retry it. Is that right? Liked him so nice we did it thrice. Let's get into it. So new trial, three times July 2014. This has moved to Scott County now.

We're in three trials, three different counties. He's on a tour. You might as well get like a fog hat and do county fairs while he's out there. It's like he's running for governor of Iowa. This is, yeah, he's doing a tour. Everybody vote for me. He's found guilty, but he is elected

lieutenant governor of the state of Iowa, so it's a mixed bag. Trial number three here. He's got a new defense team. New defense team, I just said. It's a defense team. Hey, he's got a defense team. It's a nice defense team. All for Italy. Nice and men. No, he apparently can't afford his attorneys anymore. No one will pay for two trials. There's a lot of trials. So he has a court appointed attorney now, and then a guy doing, the guys that do like the court appointed work who aren't public defenders.

So he's got two lawyers, and same exact prosecutors though. Wow. And the judge, Daniel Wilson, again, this is his third time with this fucking shit too. This is fucking wild. So his, team the new defense teams working on a different strategy instead of saying it's Brian Tate which it worked twice I'd stick with that forever they are now saying shoddy police work is the problem.

Shoddy police work is what got her shot. That's what did it. They said the prosecution also put on a more focused streamlined case, stressing that the story about Tate just doesn't make sense about him coming in. But the problem is it's hard to rule that out if you're a juror and you're going, this guy's sobbing on the 911 tape. The neighbor is a fucking nutcase who has weaponry.

Who knows if he found that shotgun outside, took it, then threw it back on the lawn. There's no fingerprints on the shotgun, by the way. It's white clean. So it's interesting. New twist in trial number three. New information comes out. Defense attorneys uncover that Lisa

was having an affair of her own. Atta girl! With a married fellow jailer named Jason Tins, T-I-N-N-E-S. Uh-huh. They discovered the affair after investigating text messages on her phone saying a technician at the state crime lab had been directed not to do so earlier. They told him, don't go into Lisa's phone, don't worry about it. The defense lawyers say they learned that an investigator had spoken with a coworker, Jason Tins, days after Lisa's death, but he denied an affair and they just left it at that

But now he admitted during a deposition they got him under oath and he admitted it That's having a seven month sexual affair with Lisa that ended the month before her death He said they didn't use contraception either and they were worried about whether he was the father. Oh my god. This is So messy this is fucked up right? This is crazy 20 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag, so they're so nice. They'll fuck you and send the The rod dog you just kind people So this had not been in the first two trials and the Attorney General's office said they didn't know about it until recently and they didn't believe the information was exculpatory. Well I'd say another guy who may or may not have impregnated her is, maybe he did it then,

that's what I mean. There's that, but there's also did he find out about that relationship, that's problems. That's the other thing. If you knew about him, the investigation's way different from the beginning you know what I mean so the he testifies he admitted he lied about the affair because he didn't want his wife to know she knows now motherfucker he also testified that Lisa and he ended their sexual relationship about two months before she was murdered because they both realized what they were doing was wrong but he continued texting her until near the end

of April there. He said might be his baby. That's the other thing it might be his baby. So they also play the 911 stuff they show the all the explicit text messages to the jury of course. Yeah. The defense says that the investigation was quote, flat out incompetent. They never tested his clothes or hands for gunshot residue. They never examined Lisa's cell phone found near her body or excluded possible suspects. This is even messier than the first two trials.

Sure enough. When you throw him into the mix, it really throws it all up. So the jurors deliberate for four hours, find him guilty on all charges this time. Really? It seems like this is his best case so far out of the three trials, right? I would think this is a whittle. This is a winner. For him, it's a winner. Lisa's dad here during sentencing, they make him sit there and they do the victim impact statements, and they say Lisa's Lisa's dad says you know how close Lisa

and I was and you know what you took from me out of everybody in this room you know and you sit there right there with no emotion on your face none and I don't know how you can do that he said that Seth is a cold-hearted killer I would call him an animal but an animal only kills out of necessity. Seth kills out of convenience. Wow. Lisa's mom said Seth I have no doubt that you made sure Lisa could not resist before you took her life. You and I both know that Lisa would have fought to survive and ultimately would have kicked your ass so she and Zoe

could have lived. I think she could take you in a, I think my daughter could take you in a fair fight is what she just said, which I wouldn't doubt. You'd have to sleep, you fucking coward. I wouldn't doubt it based on everything I've heard. She's a hunter, a bowler, a fisher. Yeah, but he also seems like quite the coward that he won't even tell her that he's not fucking somebody. He's a total pussy, yeah.

This guy's a total pussy. She said, I think of it only fair that if my daughter had an even brief moment of fear before you shot her, that you live the rest of your days in fear and misery. And I hope spending your life in prison at least guarantees that. No mother should have to see her child or a pic of her child or granddaughter on an autopsy slab and not get answers.

We deserve the pic. Yeah, she did it. 2014. Yeah. I mean, interesting choice of words. I see a pick. It sounds very casual. It does.

Like I went, I shouldn't have to go on Insta and see this shit. You know what I'm saying? Like it's weird. I don't know what you're saying. An IG about their daughter. She said, we deserve the truth from day one not all of the games that have been played all I wanted to do was sit there and hold her hand and stroke her hair and let her know that I was there. I was with her when she took

her first breath and I only wanted her to know that I was there moments after she took her last. That morning I arrived at your trailer I knew Lisa was dead and all I could think about was comforting you and seeing how you were doing making sure you are alright. I'm going to leave you with one final thought I'm no longer your sister, and I no longer love you. That's from the sister-in-law That's Lisa sister no longer love you. I no longer love you. That's that's rough Yeah, then they asked Seth anything you want to say to the court at all? After all this? Yeah, thanks for your life man.

He said, not at this time. I'm going to think about it. Alright motherfucker, you sir may fuck off life without parole. Oh Jesus. Plus 25 years. Oh my, oh for the baby? For that too, yeah, plus another 25. Despite the conviction, the sheriff said multiple families were destroyed so you know conviction really doesn't help much and

Yeah, did he during the trial was that when he found out about the affair? I know I think I think possibly yeah Yeah, he told his fucking lawyers before you they didn't know yeah Nobody imagine could you imagine if that's when he found out, and what if it wasn't his? He wouldn't have even had to pay child support. He just did this as a, what a monster. Imagine if he heard that in court,

and as soon as it came out he said, I'll kill that bitch, wait, fuck, wait, no. Don't, don't do that. Lisa's dad said, everybody's a loser, nobody wins, but I will say this, I think Lisa knows somewhere that the system she wanted to be a part of worked for her. It was also on Dateline in 2014, like right after the trial. They did an episode called Before Dawn.

It was like a month afterwards. They'd been waiting for the trials to be over probably. It's this interesting shit. And then new stuff came out in the third trial. They were like, oh, this is juicy. This is great 2016 is an appeal and Basically saying I didn't have information I should have had and they said get the fuck out of here you asshole No, he is currently serving his time at the Anamosa State Penitentiary in Iowa. That thing is agency I'll probably being traded for sex one would

hope so at this point yeah his wife could kick his ass he's probably not doing great in jail if you like that story tell everyone about it get on whatever app you're on give us five stars that helps so fucking much shut up and give me murder calm September 20th State Theater Minneapolis come be a part of our biggest show ever be a part of the biggest shut up and give me murder that's ever fucking happened everybody We can't wait do that shut up and give me murder.com Definitely do patreon patreon.com slash crime in sports. We get all the bonus material You can handle five dollars or month or above get you hold back catalog new stuff every other week one crime and sports one small

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