Small Town Murder - #519 - Show Me Your Belly - Ord, Nebraska

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

This week, in Ord, Nebraska, a local woman vanishes from a small town bar, after walking outside with a young man. When she can't be found for almost 3 years, it looks like it could be "no body, no crime", but she is eventually found, horribly butchered. Detectives are most suspicious of a man, who has a peculiar fetish, and a completely strange story about his interaction with the murder victim, the night she disappears. Will it be enough for a case??Along the way, we find out that parading children, for any reason, is a bit odd, that it must be torture to have whatever your fetish is, out in plain sight, and that you should never tell police that you unsuccessfully tried to kidnap the woman, who was eventually found dead!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I'm Dan Tuberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head? Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free on Wondery Plus. This week in Ord, Nebraska, a woman disappears from a small town bar and everybody seems to know where she went, but nobody can find her.

Will the answer lay with a strange man with an even stranger fetish? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition. And this is wild stuff because there's some stuff I've never heard of today.

Is that right? We've been through a lot of weird stuff on this show and there's some stuff in here today where I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing. We'll get into all that. Before we do, definitely head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. First of all, tickets for September 20th, Minneapolis. Get them while they're still there. They're almost gone. Let's go. It's going to be our biggest show ever. Be a part of the biggest Shut Up And Give Me Murder of all time and going on sale this week. And if you're hearing this, I think it's tomorrow. So if you're hearing this it's I think it's tomorrow So if you're hearing this they're out tickets for the virtual live show Halloween edition again

Oh, you know you love it. We can't wait for the Halloween edition. It's always a fun spooky time. We have a blast We're gonna dress up in costumes again. It's gonna be fun stuff Can't wait for it. We can't wait So that is all shut up and give meder.com is where you get all of that. Also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. And if you can't get enough of us from all of that, we got more for you. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get hundreds of back episodes immediately upon subscription

that you've never heard before. Bonus stuff. then you get new ones every other week one crime and sports one small town murder we're gonna give you all of it get it all this week for crime and sports we're gonna talk about the whole Duke lacrosse mess this has nothing to do with lacrosse and everything to do with frat parties and strippers and it's a really crazy scandal and then for small-town murder we're gonna talk about the whole Brian Coburger mess here. What a guy. Usually we'll wait until the whole thing's played out but I this is a guy really just don't like I don't know what it is about it maybe it's his face maybe it's the fact

that he's like DNA what are you talking about whatever it is he's so he's so arrogant I can't take it and I need to talk about him and yell at him. It's bra guys or what? Yeah, he just drives me nuts, I don't like the guy. So we'll talk all about that and all about the case here and see where that's at. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you also get a shout out at the end of the show

where Jimmy will mess your name up for you, even though he'd love to get it correct, we promise you. That's my favorite thing, yeah. So that said, it's time for the disclaimer. Here we have to do it. This is a comedy show, everybody. Now, that doesn't mean that the stories aren't real. Unfortunately, every single iota of the stories are real.

We wish that we were making some stuff up for comedic effect. Unfortunately, we're not. People are just god awful to each other, and we're gonna talk all about it, and jokes will be made, but we know where to make the jokes. See? We're professionals. What you do is, well what you don't do is you never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why James? Because we're assholes. Yeah but... But we're not scumbags. I mean

that's easy. That's a simple one there so if you think that sounds good you're gonna hear one wild crazy story. If you think true crime and comedy are never ever should be mingling at all, oil and water, then you know maybe we're not for you. But maybe we are because I'll tell you what, nobody deep dives like us on a case. I'll tell you that right now. So you're going to hear it the best way you can hear it. And for everybody that thinks that true crime and comedy should never go together, I don't know, take a hike. But for the rest of you, you're gonna hear a wild story, and I think it's time to sit back, let's all clear the lungs when you say here,

and arms to the sky, let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Wanna go on a trip? I would love it. Let's go on a trip, everybody. We're going all the trip. I would love it. Let's go on a trip everybody We're going all the way to Nebraska this week. Okay, we're at ord Oh, oh, our D Nebraska feels like they forgot some letters, but it's just ord

Well, there's there's something military about that isn't there's a fort ord also that we'll talk about is that that's involved Briefly one of our people in this is station there. Ordon, Nebraska. It's in central Nebraska. It's about three hours and 10 minutes to Omaha, if you want to go to the east. It's a bit a ways. It's a bit a ways and about two hours and 40 minutes to Wilbur, Nebraska, which was our last Nebraska episode, the flying vampire Tinder date, which was, Nebraska is crazy. We think of it as this, you know, real buttoned up place basically where everybody's just, you know, farming and nodding to each other solemnly.

They kill each other in wild ways in Nebraska. This is no exception, that story or this one. This is in Valley County, area code 308, and the motto here here come home to Ord. Come home. Come home because we have nothing else in Ord I believe is the end of that they're leaving off. You're home. That's it.

You're home. There it is. So get comfortable because there's not much else to do. It's like that old sign in front of the apartment complex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you lived here you'd be home by now. That bullshit. There it is.

Yeah. So it was. I've seen it maybe 20 times in my life and every time I go, that's pretty goddamn good. Pretty good. I'd be like, I could stop driving right now. Do you hate driving? If you lived here. Hate your commute? Well, guess what?

If you lived here. A little bit of history. Ord was the selected as county seat for Valley County in 1873 and was laid out the next year by the Haskell brothers and other people too who had purchased the land for the town site from the Burlington and Missouri Railroad Company because they owned everything at that time in the 1800s. And the town was laid out by a surveyor in May of 1875. They actually did this like very planned. They didn't, wasn't just like, oh, there's someone,

oh, so and so put a general store over there. I guess that's Main Street. Like this was all mapped out. The first building erected was the courthouse, and then a schoolhouse was built as well. And the first residence wasn't built until after the courthouse and the schoolhouse were built. Is that right? Yeah, so this was not, this was a planned community. This was not, you know, people came here and-

To spring up and get rushed together. This is- Shit. Yeah, shit. We got a bunch of kids. We better build a school. They were like, let's build a school. If we build it, they will come. What are we gonna do with all the children? Wow. It's a lot of confidence to think people are gonna go there enough to build everything. In the 1950s, the Evelyn Sharp Airport was built. It was named after Evelyn Sharp, who graduated from Ord High School in 1937. She was the youngest person in the United States to earn a transport license to fly a plane and flew the first mail plane into Ord. So they named it

after her. She's a pilot. She's a pilot. During World War II, she enlisted in the service and transported repaired planes from the west to the east coast. She was killed taking off from a Pennsylvania airport in 1944. So not a great pilot.

Well, yeah, apparently. Mediocre. Woman driver, everybody, watch out, you know what I mean? Jesus Christ. Fuckin' around, yeah, she's, I mean she did a lot of flying before that I guess, was during the war.

You know, they didn't say one time in there that she's a pilot, why didn't they give her that label? She was the youngest person. Why not? She earned a transport, like I think that means you're a pilot, right? Yeah, they didn't say it. I think you're- They didn't say first woman pilot. She wasn't the first woman pilot.

Oh. She was the first- From four, from four to- The youngest person to- Oh. To earn a transport license to fly a plane. So I guess the youngest woman, she's also the youngest man, who cares?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's the youngest person. The youngest person to fly a plane. It's impressive, impressive shit. Reviews of this town, five stars, here we go. I love the atmosphere and the fact that everyone knows everyone else. God, people are so jacked by that.

They love it. I love knowing everyone at Walmart. That's a nightmare. Is that just the human hubris that you need to be recognized as something? A lot of people, they wanna go where everyone knows their name, you know what I mean? It's the cheers effect.

I need to be recognized for who I am and what I mean? It's the cheers effect. I need to be recognized for who I am and what I do. I need to walk in and have everyone go, Norm! And then I feel better, I guess. I don't know. He said, I would like there to be more restaurants and entertainment such as movie theaters, but otherwise, Ord is a great place to live. There isn't even movie theaters.

We'll get to that. We haven't got there yet. Three stars, Ord is a clean, healthy environment. Clean and healthy. What is it? A restaurant? With smiling friendly faces every which way you turn. Every which way.

Every which way. And loose. And loose. However, just like any other town or city, Ord has its downfalls. Many of those downfalls include constant drama between each class in town. They don't mean school classes, they mean economic classes. The poors are, I don't know. If one is of the lower class, they are treated unfairly and looked at as if they were nothing but pieces of sand in the Pacific. You know, America, you just described. That's

every town, city, fucking anything you can imagine here. That's just called society. Yeah. Sadly, the same goes for the school system. Certain children are treated unfairly. When it comes to safety, I would say Ord is one of the safest places I've ever lived. We'll be the judge of that. We have stats. However, the hospital is a whole different story. It comes down to the people once again. The social system in Ord is not right. Yeah, poor people are treated badly, which is a common problem. It sounds like it's right on the nose with everywhere else. Yeah, that's what I mean. Three stars, Ord is a companionable environment. Companionable.

Wow, you really get to mash some shit together to make that one. F***ing put that up. I guess it's a good companion. Friendable. Friendable. Where everyone knows everyone. It is a safe, family-friendly place to grow up and raise a family. If I had to change something about Ord, it would be to include more nightlife.

Well, then it wouldn't be a small town that you like. Then it would have crime and all that, and more events that would make Ord more appealing to be. I would also add more activities for teens because Ord currently has no place for teenagers to hang out. That's actually not true, because we'll talk about a place

where they do hang out in this story. It's not set up, it's just a field, but they hang out there. People in this town, 2049. There's nobody here. That's why set up, it's just a field, but they hang out there. People in this town, 2049, there's nobody here. That's why there's not going to be a lot of nightlife in a town of 2000 people. I need the Vegas strip in my town of 2000. So weird.

There are more males than females here, which is not normal in the country. It's 51% male. Median age is 43. It's a few years older than the average, but about right. A lot of 58% married, which is above the usual 50-50. Lower divorce rate and lower single with children. So people get married and stay married here, even if they hate who they're married to. It's 96% white here, 0.6% black, 2.1% Hispanic. It's a Nebraska farming town. That's exactly what it is. The unemployment rate here is extremely low. It's low in the

country right now, but it's 2.3% here. Holy. Which is nothing. That's- They're all working. Everyone there is working. The median household income though is low. Median household income here is $51,694 a year. It is about $69,000 in the rest of the country. So that's not good. Luckily for these people though, and I mean luckily because that's a low amount, the median home cost here, well the cost of living overall, $100 is regular here, it's they're very very affordable median home cost here everybody ready for this one 117 thousand nine hundred dollars It's like 1982 prices this town. Yeah is well behind the line Ford f-350 money. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's trucks that are more expensive than that

I have dodge trucks that are more expensive than that right now. 100%. With a fucking Hemi and all that. You can get a house or a truck. One of the two. So if we've convinced you to make a hard decision between house and truck, we have for you the Ord Nebraska Real Estate Report. Alright, your average two bedroom rental here, and I don't know how available those

are but they go for about $800 which is about 400 below the national average, about two thirds. Yeah. Here's a three bedroom two bath, 1152 square feet. It's a small little house but it's very nicely done on the inside. It was clearly recently redone Everything is very modern and a nice little porch also. It's a nice little house hundred 195 thousand dollars for it though

For 1152 on the square feet. It's not a big lot. It's a little house next other little houses So that seems like 200 that's sub 200 which is not bad But for around here, it seems like you should be getting more for that Here's a three-bedroom three bath tea ball for each and every be whole everybody 1,428 square feet. It's a nice house. It is a little bit dated on the inside. It's not Freshly redone like the last one. There is a bedroom. That's very purple So you're definitely gonna have to put a few coats over that to cover it up especially if you're doing a lighter color because it's kids love yeah you just know that there's they had a

teenage daughter and they're like just fine paint it purple and then when they go to sell it ten years later they're like fuck I call her back from wherever she was and have her repaint this now yeah you can paint college remember that room you wanted to paint purple? Yeah guess what get your brushes and your fucking rollers and get back here for the weekend. You got a whole lot of rolling to do. $250,000 for that house. Okay. Again not bad. None none it's less than less than a half an acre. Then here is a two-bedroom two-bath so technically T-bowl for all your bee holes on that one too. 2228 square feet.

Wow! So, decent sized house. That's a lot of house for only two bedrooms. Two bedrooms, yeah. It's a lot of living space. It's fine. It's kind of cool. It has a couple of stained glass windows, which are kind of cool with some colors in

them. It's fine. Nothing spectacular. And it's $399,000. That's outrageous. And again, it's like a half acre. It's fine, nothing spectacular, and it's $399,000. That's outrageous. And again, it's like a half acre.

It's nothing major. It's like a decent size yard. It's very strange. They're going on square footage price, right? I think so, and I think they're trying to maybe stay looked and saw that home prices are up, so they're like, fuck it, I'll try to sell mine for as much as we can get.

Yeah. Things to do here, we have the North lout or loop. I don't know. Hello up Well, I lout. I don't know popcorn days It says welcome to popcorn days a North loop tradition since 1901 Nestled in the heart of central, Nebraska popcorn days attracts families from across the Midwest To a weekend of games carnivals and great adventure. Is it a popcorn? Yeah, no, it's a popcorn. But also, what's the fucking adventure? Do we gotta search for the popcorn? Well, you can join us for team penning. What is that? Is that getting animals in a pen?

It sounds like it. Or is it just, is it a version of pegging that they're not gonna tell us about? Team petting. Get him down! Competition calligraphy? Yeah, hold his legs, he ain't gonna like it, so you're gonna have to hold him, Jesus. He didn't ask for this.

So one way or another, somebody's getting roped, I think. Yeah, team penning and sorting. I guess that's animals. Kids games, a quote juvenile parade, which sounds like, it sounds like criminal, like juvenile delinquent criminals, right? Like they got them out of the, either that or it's a weird sexual thing. I'm not sure. Juvenile. A men's slow pitch softball tournament. This sounds like what Chevy Chase went to in funny farm Yeah, it's exactly that really did sand volleyball not beach. Just sand

It's Nebraska. It's landlocked. We fuck you all get it We brought in some sand but we didn't couldn't get an ocean for you Sorry, and then it ends the weekend with the area's largest parade. Oh There you go. So that's the whole thing. And then there's Fort Hartstuff's, Fort Hartstuff, not stuff, Hartstuff, Fort Hartstuff's 150th anniversary. And in 1874, US military soldiers hired civilian workers and they began construction on an

infantry outpost at the edge of Nebraska Sandhills, which is there 150 years later the original and reconstructed building stand is one of the most complete examples of forts from the Plains Indian Wars Great kept it there with lime and concrete buildings wide verandas and wide White picket fences Fort Hart stuff has been called one of the prettiest posts on the plane, and they are gonna have all sorts of stuff. Here's the schedule, oh baby. Oh, at 10.30 a.m., Dr. Gene Lukish presents Trooper. Trooper Lee Herron and Fort Hartstuff,

or Hart-suff, keep messing that up, Hartstuff. Now at this- You want it to be Hartstuff so bad. I want it to be Hartstuff, or Hart-suff, keep messing that up. Hartstuff. Now at this- You want it to be Hartstuff so bad. I want it to be Hartstuff, I really do. And then at the same time at 10.30, I don't know how you do these at the same time, but how are you gonna watch Dr. Gene Lukash when you're distracted by the kids' military drill

at 10.30 a.m.? What the hell? That's great. That's weirder than the juvenile parade. I don't like that at all That JROTC stuff frightens me. Yeah Super creepy 16 year old kids super into guns and shit is like calm down, and you're just Pick up a book or something stop it strange a noon Alan Bartles presents 100 things to do in the sand hills before you die

Okay, which would be stare at them, I think. I don't think there's a lot more going on there. Drive through them. What else do you do with them? Kimberly Burazuk presents Daughters of Mars, Women with the Frontier Army, 1870 after that. Oh, that's going to be a lot of fun. Humanities of Nebraska presents Jeff Barnes, Forts of Nebraska. This sounds like a really exciting...

At 9pm we're going to have an artillery demonstration slash night shoot. Let's check out some artillery that day. Shoot guns in the dark, guys. Fucking crazy. And then they pretty much double that up the next day except they add Gary Wells presenting the early military occupation of the North Loop Valley They're not about somebody was conceived at this place. Oh for sure Somebody got real hot, you know, they're like man that juvenile parade and the fucking kids military thing got me hot

Hot-hot so crime rate in town, what we are interested in here, property crime is about half the national average. So nobody's stealing shit. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third of the national average. So two thirds below. It's very safe here.

It is the middle of nowhere. There's 2,000 people and all of them know each other. So it's hard to get away with crime, you know? Everybody's just looking forward to that festival next year. That's out there. Man, I can't wait to get my kid. I got him drilling out in the backyard.

He's been marching back and forth. So that said, let's talk about a murder and some very crazy shit. All right, let's start out with a young lady here, Katherine Beard and Beard like on your face. Beard, Katherine's her name, she goes by Kathy, with a C by the way. She's born in 1958, and she was born and raised in Ord. She's an Ord girl from the start.

Born and raised in this town. This tiny town, and she will live here her entire life. Wow. Which is wild. Yeah, her father, William, is gonna die in about 1985. Her father and mother had moved there in 1947 to Ored, and then she has two brothers and a sister, and Catherine as well.

And so that's how that goes. Or no, two sisters, I'm sorry, two brothers and two sisters and Katherine as well. And so that's how that goes. Or two sisters, I'm sorry, two brothers and two sisters. There's five kids total. She's the fifth, wow. Yeah, five total. And she went to Ord Public Schools. And it says through her sophomore year. So I'm gonna assume she dropped out after the 10th grade.

That sounds about right here because she's gonna be like a part-time small bar waitress is what she does for a living. So she's going to stay in town. What the fuck does she need? That's exactly. Yeah. She, I guess in the around 1980 or so she couldn't take it anymore. And she moved to Lincoln for a year. She's like, I'm going to the big city of Lincoln, baby. Oh man. Perkinskins as far as the eye can see there, buddy. Can't wait for that shit. And boy, can you see far.

Yeah. She couldn't find work there, partially because she has a 10th grade education, which doesn't help. If you come out of the Sandhills, some small town of 2,000 people with a 10th grade education, you're not really burning up the job market, probably, at that point. In a three-letter town.

Yeah, she couldn't even get a four, couldn't afford a four-letter over there. She's not exactly fending off job offers here when she goes to town, so she ends up coming home after she can't find work, so she's there very briefly and then moves home. That's her only attempt of leaving Oord in her whole life. Really? Yep, she tried and then said fuck. That's her only attempt of leaving Ord in her whole life. Really?

Yep, she tried and then said fuck it. Yeah, she can't. I mean, that's pretty fucking demoralizing. She's like 21, 22. If you moved to Lincoln and can't make it, you're like fuck. To them. What chance do I have?

That was the big city. So she moved back and like I said, her dad died in 1985 and then her mom was getting old. So she was living with her mother at 2121 L Street in Ord here. And basically she does the household chores her mother can't get around to doing because of physicality issues,

like the laundry and gardens for her and does all that kind of shit. And then she works part time as well and we'll talk about that. She's small, she's five, 200 pounds, brown hair, hazel eyes. She's pretty. And yeah, she's pretty smart too, actually. So at school was probably not, it wasn't cause she's an idiot at all. It's just cause you know, I had problems in school too. It happens. She likes to write poetry as well. Oh, she's an artsy gal. She's into

writing poetry, but no other artsy stuff I can see except poetry. Yeah. So she seems like the type that probably drew horses on her folders. You know what I mean? And then writes poetry and you know that girl. You remember that girl. So she does that. So she's living there through the eighties at about 1989. She's still single, but she has a boyfriend. She's never been married. She has a boyfriend, they don't live together. She still lives with her mother in the same house. And she's got brothers and sister-in-laws

and all that kind of thing. Her one, what is it? It's her brother's wife's brother, I believe. It's her brother-in-law, right? It's her brother-in-law. I was trying to figure out how it was her brother-in-law, though, is the chief of police here in Ord. Oh.

And is gonna be the chief of police. His name is Kirby. So that's part of this too. His first name? No, his last name is Kirby. So that's part of this too here. So she's got a boyfriend, like I said. Her job, okay.

She works at the Someplace Else Tavern. That's the name of it. Which works at the someplace else tavern. That's the name of it. Which, I was just gonna say, you know that is just people going, you know when people leave somewhere, they go, you wanna go someplace else? That's what they say, so we're the someplace else. It's kind of brilliant actually as a name. I love when bars do that.

I like when they call themselves the gym. I enjoy that. That's what guys tell their wives, I'm one bars do that. I like when they call them when they call themselves the gym. I enjoy that Look I sell their wives. That's all that is That's why they call the strip club the library and they call it. Yeah, that's that's why they do that. I go to the library Yeah, I think it's fascinating. It is fascinating So these someplace else but everyone in town knows what someplace else is because it's sure the bar And it seems like a main gathering spot for this town where people go.

She works as a part-time waitress there. That's her job. So she doesn't seem to have a ton of ambition, Cathy. There's no dream of anything else. She doesn't talk about she's trying to open her own business, or she's trying to save up money to go somewhere, or she's going back to school.

She just works part-time and takes care of her mom, and that's that. But she's in her 20s. She's 31 at this point by 89. Okay, well. Once you hit 30, you got to go, is this what I'm going to have a part-time interest forever? At this point. You got to start figuring out how to, 401k, retirement.

Social Security's not going to cut it for whatever she's chipping into this. At this point, it feels like her, it seems to be her plan is to wait till her mom dies and then live in that house Because you know part-time waitress, I don't know how else you're gonna you're not gonna buy a house or anything. So There's nothing nothing technically fuck I'd have loved that life. No, it's fine ambition to do anything. Yeah, that'd be great Yeah, I just start worrying at 31. I'd start going, I need health insurance. You know what I mean? Like this is... Dude, I got an uncle that's almost 60 and he's got nothing, dude.

Yeah. I know plenty of people like that. So Charlene Whitefoot, who has known Beard for 10 years, describes her as a friendly, outgoing person who would never hurt anyone. She likes to hang out even on her nights off at the someplace else. This is Kathy. So this is the social center of the town. She enjoys playing pool and cards also. This is what I mean. They just hang out there and a dice game called zilch, which I don't know what that is. I've never heard

that one. She also likes country music and dancing. She likes country music and line dancing and all that kind of shit. Her also loves watching TV. Her favorite shows as of 1989, late 80s, are Dynasty, which a lot of the ladies liked. And if I gave you 100 guesses, you'd never fucking guess what her second show is

after First One's Dynasty. Is it Cagney and Lacey? No, no, no, that's what I mean. If I gave you a hundred guesses, you'd never fucking guess what her second show is after First One's Dynasty. Is it Cagney and Lacey? No, no, no. That's what I mean. You'd guess that. You'd guess like, you know, those kind of shows. Nope.

Perfect Strangers. No, Perfect Strangers. Oh yes! Great show! Not Kate and Allie or anything like that. No, Balke Bartokamas and his cousin Larry Appleton, as he would say. I think I've said this before. Balke and Larry. Larry Appleton as he would say I Think I've said this before Larry, but my cousin Jesse and I chased

Marklin Baker who was cousin Larry he is from he's from Poughkeepsie and he went to Vassar College and everything So he's he's around Poughkeepsie a lot this guy growing up still gotta be there I remember my mother brought me home an autograph when he was on TV like she saw him at a bar one night and gave Me an autograph, but we chased his ass down in the Poughkeepsie Galleria. We saw him from like fucking 40. We were knocking people over. We were like 10, it was like 1988. We're knocking people the fuck over. What were you guys gonna do if you caught him?

We caught him, we fucking caught him. He went through, just as he opened the one door to go through the two sets of doors, we grabbed him by the jacket and said, cousin Larry, cousin Larry. And he turned around terrified and then saw we were kids and we were like we you're really funny Can we have your autograph and stuff and he was like, okay sure What happened?

No, that's where the fuck is Marklin Baker. He was funny He should be thrilled about that that interaction because nobody's looking for you mark sadly I'm more famous than him now and that is disturbing because we're not famous. I didn't know it's not. That's what I mean. That's sad because he was funny. Oh, that's so bad. Anybody who runs into Mark Lynn Baker, tell him we got his back. Holy shit, he kind of looks like, Jesus, he looks bad, man. He doesn't look like he would age well

because he had those cheeks. No, yeah. He looks like, he grew like gray sideburns. So he looks like a fucking old Western fucking cowboy. Cool. Put him in Yellowstone or something. What are we doing? Yeah. Let's get him work.

Larry Upleton. Larry Upleton. Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagge. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away. We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs. To the infamous scams of real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to scam influencers early

and ad free right now on Wondry+. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence that she left him there. In January, 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends,

Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask. Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma

with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police coverup. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a coverup to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion. And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. So May 31st, 1989, it is Kathy's night off. Marklin Baker is nowhere to be seen.

And she, but she heads to the bar anyway to go hang out, even though it's's night off, Marklin Baker is nowhere to be seen. But she heads to the bar anyway to go hang out, even though it's her night off. There's nothing else to do, I feel like, in this town. There isn't even a fucking movie theater. What are you doing? You're probably right. She's wearing faded blue jeans, a white fuzzy sweater with pink and gray horizontal stripes,

which it's May 31st she's wearing a sweater. That's- Oh shit. And tennis shoes. A little cold still? I guess, it must be, I don't know. Maybe it's cool 31st, she's wearing a sweater. That's, and tennis shoes. A little cold still? I guess, it must be, I don't know. Maybe it's cool in there, air conditioned, I'm not sure. Tennis shoes, sneakers, a watch, a turquoise ring, and a friendship ring.

Not sure what that is, but a friendship ring. In the 80s, is it one of those like nylon ones with the speckles all over it? You know what I'm talking about? Like a bracelet? No, those like bright, they were bright yellow, bright green, bright pink, bright orange, but they had like neon colors on them with the black speckles.

Oh yeah, I don't remember. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know what you're talking about, I remember that, but I don't know. They did have the bracelet that was like slip slide-y to tighten. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, but then people would make the friendship bracelets

and they'd be like the, you know, out of their little yarn and all that shit, cause that was the big deal when we were kids, was girl, we'll just give that to you and you'd be like the, you know, out of the little yarn and all that shit, cause that was the big deal when we were kids, was girl, we'll just give that to you and you'd be like, okay, and then you'd have to wear it. I don't know what the fuck she's into. So it's about 7.30 PM, she's been hanging out in the evening, so she goes there early,

this isn't like it's 9.30, I'm going out, she's spending her evening there, hanging out with friends and talking. And about 7.30, she leaves her keys, her cigarettes, and her coat in the bar and steps outside to talk to somebody. And it's a 23-year-old man named John Oldson who she goes out to talk to. And we don't know what it is too because if you've ever hung out at a bar, if you leave your shit and go out the back door, it might be, hey, you wanna go out and smoke a joint quick.

You know what I mean? That's like the usual out the back door type of thing. So, cause you can smoke in bars obviously. And in a little town like this, it could be him saying, hey, my friend Frank thinks you're pretty. Wants to fucking plow you, yeah. So he, now the other thing is, he's known this, he's known, he's younger than her,

but he's known her he's younger than her, but he's known her basically his whole life, and he's been trying to fuck her for years now. Of course. He tried, every once in a while he takes a run at her and she goes, no, and he goes, all right, it's one of those. Yeah.

Now a man said he saw Kathy get into the pickup truck with this man, this man's pickup truck, with John, but a person was sitting inside the truck, but this man, this man's pickup truck, with John. But a person was sitting inside the truck, but the man did not know if that person was a man or a woman. So this person just saw her get into a truck with another figure, had no idea who, what, when, or how.

So it's a dark colored pickup truck parked in the alley behind the someplace else tavern. So if she went out the back door, that's where it would have been, in the alley. It's described tavern. So if she went out the back door, that's where it would have been in the alley. It's described as being about seven or eight years old with Loop County license plates. And they are identified by the number 88 on them. They have the county numbers.

They have them numbered by county in Nebraska. That's a thing in Nebraska. So they got a partial license plate number of the truck, but a later check of any truck anywhere will fail to bring up anything that matches this. So they didn't know what to do. But she never comes back in the bar. She leaves her cigarettes, leaves her keys,

leaves her coat, leaves all her shit, walks out the back door with this guy, and she's just gone. But we don't know if she left with this guy, if she left whose truck this was or anything like that. She's just gone. And that night people are like, hey where'd Cathy go?

Well her shit's here. But it's not, they didn't know if she went to go do something and then got distracted or who knows. Yeah and she works here. She'll be back for this stuff. That's it, but it's like to leave your cigarettes. Your keys. And your cigarettes. If you're a smoker and you're leaving for more than a 20 minutes You're taking your cigarettes with you. That's just the way it works unless there's cigarettes on the way. Yeah. Yeah

You're gonna have yours though. You know what I mean? Yeah smokers have their cigarettes on them So they said at that point they somebody called the police and said she's you know know, she's gone, the owner of the bar, and they said they didn't know where to look. The cop said if we had any idea of where to search, we would search, but we don't have a focal point. A search at this point would be random. Like we don't even know what we're looking for. So we don't even know if she just went and hung out

and spent the night at somebody's house or something. We have no idea. So all we know is she was sitting at the end of the bar on a bar stool that night, said Kay Schaefer, who co-owned the bar, she said that Kathy went toward the bathroom, that's what she saw, which is toward the back door, and never came back. And she said, I think it's the most ridiculous unheard of thing. It's like she just vanished. She went to the bathroom, never came back, and never seen from these people again.

Now, she does have a boyfriend. Yeah. So right away, they'd like to talk to the boyfriend to see if A, she went to his house, or B, is he pissed off that she hangs out at the bar all the time? Like, what's his deal? What's the situation there?

Cause you know, obviously when there's a woman missing, we're gonna go, we're gonna check who is she fucking, who did she fuck before this, and who has been trying to fuck her. That's what we're looking at. Cause that's who men kill generally. Yeah, you go to the Wikipedia page and find the successor and the predecessor.

That's it, there you go. Oh, she was married, is that 72 to 478? There it is So the Ord police chief John Young who's the police chief at this point in time later on it'll be somebody else he said that she had a boyfriend in Fremont and They said that the boyfriend they talked to him. He seemed to be telling the truth and he does not know where the hell she is he said he didn't hear from her, and he doesn't know. He knew she was going there that night, and that was it. That's the last he heard from her, too. There's no cell phones, so it's not like they're texting back and forth. So they're like, okay, let's

figure out this truck. Maybe the truck is the key to finding out where she went, right? So there's no description of a driver available, but they said the truck was seen getting into, the truck she was seen getting into is thought to be quote, semi-local from the Loop Garfield Wheeler County area. So somewhere around us within a couple hours. Yeah. It wasn't, you know, Georgia plates or something.

It was, they said the witness stated the pickup truck had 88 county plates. We're checking into this, but we feel he may have been an error on the second digit and it may have been a three. 88 is Loop County, 83 is Garfield County. So they said people tend to pick up on vehicle license plates from a great distance away, so it's thought that the pickup might be from the area. And they added that Beard probably was with someone she knew. And they said, we don't feel she would have got in a car with someone she didn't know,

just based on her character and talking to people. And you don't get in somebody else's car when you're leaving all your shit in the car. That's what's so weird. Yeah, you're going outside for two minutes if you're doing that. You're not going out there for the whole day. And this is back when you could smoke anywhere. So she didn't have to go outside to have a cigarette. No, exactly. She went outside for a specific reason.

Specific reason. Someone called her out to talk to her or whatever. So the first guy they want to talk to is the guy that she was seen with outside the bar and seen talking to at the bar that night and that is John Oldson. And that is John Oldson, O-L-D-S-O-N, old son. John R. Oldson, he's born in about 1966, known Cathy his whole life. A little bit about him, his family moved to Ord in 1967, so right when he was a kid, and he's grown up here too. His father is Dick Oldson, and his mother's name is Anne, and they got divorced, his mom lives in Reno now.

I guess when he was a teenager, John's custody was transferred from his father to his mother, and he didn't like his mother. Really? Yeah, didn't get along with his mother. He moved instead to a boy's home called St. Francis Academy. So to not- He's got parents.

He's got two parents and step- and he's in a boys home. My God. Which is fucking wild. That's how much he didn't like his mother. He's... Yeah. As we'll find out through this episode, he's got some issues with women, boy. And it started with his mom, I feel like. This is it, yeah. That was in October 81. He stayed there from till June 83 and graduated from Ord High School in May of 1984. So he's not a troubled kid ever, doesn't get in trouble or anything like that. He is diagnosed at the St. Francis Academy as socially regressed and socially dysfunctional.

Regressed. Regressed. So I guess at a younger age, and he's behind the other kids, and dysfunctional socially as well. He joins the army after that, and April of 86, he's in the army, joins that, and he's in the army from April 86 to December 1987, stationed in Fort Ord, California, which is really weird. He's from Ord and they stationed him in Fort Ord but a 1500 miles away. And he's only in for a year? Well, there's a problem. That's why. He says that quote, kind of poetic, don't you think, to go from Ord to Fort Ord? Not really poetic, just coincidental. Yeah, it's interesting. He. He said he, quote, spent a little too much time

in the seedy districts in some of the towns around Fort Ord. Where the hell is Fort Ord? I don't know, but around any army base, there's seedy stuff around there to take care of the needs of a bunch of 21-year-old guys. There's strip clubs, and there's bars, and there's all sorts of shit.

He ended up tearing a ligament in his knee while doing army stuff, you know, drills and shit and received a general discharge under honorable conditions because he couldn't walk really. And the army was like, we're not going to pay for that surgery. So you're useless. We're just charging. We're not paying. We're not looking for limping soldiers really.

That's not something we're after, Especially not a socially regressed child. Yeah. So he's working at this point in 1989 with his father and his uncle and a couple other people on a work crew where they're doing construction. That's what he does. The day of May 31st, 1989, when Cathy disappeared, he was working with his father, his uncle and two other members of a work crew a guy named Lawrence Kittinger and a guy named Dale hops and they were all laying brick. That's what they were doing this day

yeah, they're working on a project at the home of Bonnie and Roger McCartney and I guess the one guy hops He says that the project lasted about three and a half days guy hops, he says that the project lasted about three and a half days. But Roger McCartney, the guy who's paying them, said that based on his review of the bills, the brick work started after May 29th and took a couple of weeks to complete. So we have some discrepancy here. After work at about 430 or five o'clock, the crew, all of them who were laying brick, went to the someplace else tavern so you know blow off some fucking post brick laying steam yeah you know as one does away

the pain of my fucking knuckles that's what it is so they all rode in this is oldson kittens your hops all rode in the father's oldson's father's two-tone cream and brown Ford pickup. Yeah. Olson's father drove the pickup. Now Olson's father parked the pickup in the alley behind the bar. The back of the pickup is full of masonry tools, which is something that people would pick up on if they saw, you know, obviously. You go, it looks like this, it's full of tools. Right. So. Lots of trowels and troughs. Yeah, numerous witnesses testified later that they saw Oldson speaking with Cathy, who was sitting at the end of the bar

at the someplace else. They were acquainted with one another, but they've never had a romantic relationship. Like I said, he's taking his shots and she always shoots him down. They, Kittenger and Hopps, will say later that Oldson went over to talk with Cathy almost immediately upon them arriving at the bar. So Cathy's been at the bar when she takes off at 7.30.

She's been there for a couple hours or any, because they got there at 5 o'clock and he made a beeline right to her. People also reported that Oldson and Cathy went to stand close together near the jukebox and the pool table. And they said at some point, Oldson had his hand or arm on Kathy's shoulder. So they were getting along, is what they're saying here. Yeah, and he's getting familiar. He's getting familiar. And she isn't the type to let a guy have a hand on her shoulder if she doesn't want it there. She is definitely the type to go, fuck off me.

And especially, she's at her job. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So she's... Or maybe she's a little more casual with allowance there because she feels comfortable there and she knows that she's safe in that building. That's what I mean, she's not afraid of him

is what I mean. She's not anything like that here. Hopps said that Oldson asked his father for the keys to the pickup truck at one point. Now several people saw Oldson and Kathy walk out of the bar through the back door into the back alley. I guess they said that was around 6 30, but I've heard other people say 7 30. So it's strange here. No one ever saw either one of them return to the tavern that night. And then Kathy was just gone.

So she not only left her cigarettes jacket, house key, and umbrella at the bar, but also Kathy left a half-finished drink on the bar. If you think you're going to be gone for more than a minute, you're going to down that fucking drink, and you're going to grab your cigarettes. That's just how a drinker and smoker operates. That's how it works.

So she left that there. And when Cathy's sister later checked Cathy's room in the house where she lived with her mother, she found that Cathy's belongings are undisturbed. She didn't pack a bag. It's not like she had a suitcase going and all of her clothes, you know, shit's taken out of her dresser drawers.

It looks just like it always does. So they're like, okay. Now when Oldson walked out the door with Kathy asking for the truck keys, Oldson's father, Kittinger and Hopps, the three work crew guys there, two work crew guys and his father waited for a while to him for him to return to give them a fucking ride. Cause they all drove there together. Yeah. But he never came back. He just left his dad and these workers at the bar. They never came back.

So old since father and Kittenger walked, they had to walk after a day of bricklaying and drinking. Now they have to walk home from the bar and he left his dad, he left his dad's truck. He took all the tools, everything by. So they walked back to old since dad's truck. He took all the tools, everything. Bye. So they walked back to Oldson's father's house. Kittinger said that he and Oldson's father arrived at Oldson's father's house about an hour after they saw John and Kathy leave together out of the bar. Oldson's father said that he and Kittinger left the tavern about 30 minutes after Olson as well.

It takes about 15 minutes to walk from the someplace else tavern to Olson's father's house. It's about a 15 minute walk. So when Olson's father, so they left, then a half hour later they leave the bar and it takes about 15 minutes. So they should have gotten home about 45 minutes after John and Kathy walked out of the back of the bar that's what we're saying here just to give you everybody a timeline because it's important so when they arrived at the house Olson's father and Kittinger Olson was on his way out of the house

oh hopefully you're coming to pick us up you asshole is that what you were doing thanks a lot he appeared freshly showered, wet hair, smelling good, new clothes. So Kittinger asked Olson if he had gotten lucky. Hey, did you get lucky? Is that why you left? And he said, no, I didn't. No, that didn't happen.

He's like, oh, damn. Instead, according to Kittinger, Olson told him that, quote, two guys had hustled her away from him in a pickup. He's like, I was trying to hook up with that one chick that works there, but two dudes ended up fucking taking her from me basically and getting in a truck and leaving.

Now, Roger McCartney, he's the guy paying for the brickwork, he said that one evening after he got home from work, anywhere between 6.30 and 7 p.m., he tried to call Olson's father at home, but reached Olson instead. And he said that he had concerns about the brickwork. He said this is the only time he called the Olson house ever and Roger didn't recall the specific date of the call, but he said it might have been on May 31st. That's possible. So he said he quickly

talked to an investigator that week and in the report, the officer reported that Roger said he made the telephone call at 730 to 830 on May 31st. So that kind of just throws the timeline off a little bit. He talked to John and he was there. Now back at the someplace else here, to go someplace else, Charlene Whitefoot, the employee there that works there, she's the one who discovered that Kathy's stuff is still on the bar and she called Oldson at his father's home because she saw them together so she was like hey where the fuck did you see Kathy she said she called at about 1030 p.m. that night

that's when she spoke to John on the phone and when Whitefoot asked Oldson if he had seen Kathy John Oldson said he was just getting out of the bathtub. This guy is a clean son of a bitch. And he indicated that he had no idea where Kathy was, and that's when Whitefoot and the owner reported Kathy is missing. The 10.30 at night, three hours after she walked out of the back door, she's missing.

Jesus, never report me missing that quickly. No? No, I could wander off for two days and just never report me missing that quickly. Give me a week before you report it to anyone. If the last person that you were hanging out with is taking a bath at 10.30 p.m., I'm calling the police. Still, never do.

But that would be normal if he's a guy who works in the morning, maybe he's taking a bath taking a bath. I'll take a bath in oh Saturday afternoon. I'm not Saturday afternoon. I don't know. Just like what are you a Victorian woman? What the who the fuck takes baths on a Saturday afternoon? That's the most leisurely They're not 1030 at night, but I mean if's a guy, if he's a bath not shower guy. Yeah, yeah, is that a guy? All right, if you're hanging out with a bath not shower guy, I'm calling the police.

You know, I mean fucking, if you're a bath not shower guy, and that would be when you would take a bath so you could be ready for work the next morning, I guess. That's wild. Makes sense, I suppose, but the bigger question is, why is a grown man taking a bath? Especially if they're common. I take them, but they're like, you know what I mean?

It's me pampering myself and being like, fucking, let's have a bottle of wine and a bath. You know what I mean? It's not all the time. Yeah, it's not an every night thing. It's just on Saturday afternoons, apparently. Saturday afternoons. I just gave you the playbook. Afternoon? I guess. I'm calling, if anyone's taking an afternoon bath I'm calling the cops. That's crazy. You think it's weird for him to take a

bath at 1030 when you're sitting here at 330 in the afternoon, shit hammered in a tub. What is wrong with you? What the son of? Granted, it sounds phenomenal. I'm not gonna lie. It's not a bad thing. I'm not disparaging you. Now, the thing they also come up with is there's a robbery that night in the area,

and they wonder if this has anything to do with it, with someone just going on a spree. They're investigating an attempted armed robbery that took place the same night she was last seen and which they say may be related to her disappearance. It was the first of its kind in 14 years in the last 14 years in Ord. The first like strong armed robbery. When was the last time somebody disappeared there? They were around the same time. This is specific. Pretty common. This is wild.

So that took place at about 1150 p.m. at the Hillcrest Motel on the northwest side of Orad on Highway 11. A man attempted to rob a 45-year-old Colorado man who was staying the night at the motel. And the police chief said the man, the Colorado man, answered the door and saw a man wearing a nylon stocking over his head and holding a sawed off shotgun. My God. Which is terrifying.

That's a horrible thing to open the door to. That's why they have those holes to look through. If you see a guy with a nylon stocking over his head, don't open it, I'm gonna say. It's probably not the pizza guy. So the Colorado man was reportedly threatened three or four times, but he maintained he had no fucking money I don't have any fucking money to give you so the robber took the telephone in the room

So he couldn't call the cops and left him alone I'll sell this for three dollars, okay Now the robbery was committed by two guys named Rex white and Glenn Hall and the victim was from Colorado. Now the fucked up part is that White and Hall had been hanging out with this guy all day. They were trying to get him laid at the someplace else. They had been at the bar. So White, Hall, White and Hall and five other acquaintances including this robbery victim, so seven people all together went to the bar, had been at another bar in town from 3 to 7.30 p.m. that night where the Colorado guy had been flashing around a lot of cash and said he wanted to

have a big party in his motel room and he offered White and Hall $100 each if they could quote, find him a girl to fuck. You guys hook up a girl, I'll give you $100 each, which will you pimp a woman to me is what they just said, is what he said. So White and Hall took everyone to the someplace else tavern around 730, right around the time when Kathy disappeared,

to try to find who? Kathy Beard, no, a very, they said, we'll find Kathy, she'll fuck you, that's what they said. Wow. We know a chick who'll fuck you, her name's Kathy, so we'll go find her. Now when they got there, White said that they couldn't find Kathy when they got there.

They got there at 730 and she was nowhere to be found. That's their story, okay? Now, the next, and then later on, they went to the, they dropped the guy off at the motel, got nylon stockings and a shotgun and went back and tried to rob him, which is wild. So at least get that $100 out of him. Yeah, he's gotta at least have 200. We know that for a fact.

Now, the next day, after Cathy disappeared, the crew at the McCartney job site there, the brick laying crew, said they saw a marked police car just hanging out nearby the whole day, near the area. Olsen's father asked aloud to other people, what the hell this guy might want. What the hell do you think this guy fucking wants? He's not leaving us sitting here the whole time. Whereas John Olson replied, quote, it's probably something I did, which is also workplace humor. I'm sure it's something I did. Ha ha ha ha ha. You know what I mean? It's, that's just how guys joke, but it's also could be true. Now the next day, also, uh, Oldson, John goes back to the someplace else tavern. So he's

not avoiding it. This is where he hangs out. He went back to the someplace else tavern. So he's not avoiding it, this is where he hangs out. He went back to the someplace else tavern to confront the Whitefoot lady. Oldson asked Whitefoot why she and the bar owner reported Kathy missing. Why'd you report her missing? The fuck do you care? Yeah, what's your deal? Go lay bricks, what do you give a shit

about reporting her missing? So Oldson reportedly said, what's gonna happen if her body comes floating down to the river? Who do you think they're going to blame? Me is what he said. They're going to blame me because they saw me walk outside with her and you got, you told the cops that I walked outside with her and now they're going to, they're thinking I did something to her. That's an interesting. Yeah. He said that, well, the white foot said, well, what did happen outside with you too?

And he said, well, I tried to grab her and stuff her into my truck, actually. That's what he said. He said, quote, I got a quote, got a hold of her arms out in the alley, but she got away. I tried to kidnap her, but failed. Someone else must've said, I'll, I know what I'm doing. I'll take care of that and kidnapped her instead. Why would he say that that's fucking wild now whitefoot said I don't fucking believe you because old since six foot three

210 pounds he's a big fucking guy. Oh, and she is tiny. He's a hundred pounds soaking wet I put his pocket pick her up by the arms and take her places You know what I mean? He's about weighs 20 pounds more than me and he can do like I can pick Sarah up take her places and you know so it's If I wanted to you know if I had to okay, yeah She said hey bring me over there. Okay sure and I could bring her over there not against her will or anything Yeah, you believe me. She's she's a kicky one. She would be wouldn't be able to do that

So before so that's how that goes so she said I don't believe you that she got away from you and at that point in Frustration John Olson just said back and left and left the bar. You're a waste. I'm out of here All right, so that's on June 1st now June 2nd comes around now the cops the cops basically said Let's take June 1st and wait for Kathy to pop up Let's see if she just comes back into circulation here. And she didn't. So by the June 2nd, now they're interviewing people. Now it's an actual missing person investigation.

So June 2nd, police sit John Olson down and interview him. He's interviewed by Gerald Woodgate, who was the Valley County Sheriff at that time, and John Young, who's the Ord Police Chief. So these are the two most in charge guys are gonna talk to them. Talk to them. Those are the people that are conducting interviews?

That's it, yeah. These small departments, there's probably three cops, you know what I mean? That's the thing. So the guy who knows how to do an interrogation the best, they sit them down. Sheriff and police chief. And the chief are sitting down.

So Oldson told them that when he and Kathy were in the alley, he propositioned Kathy for sex. He said, hey, let's go do something. And she refused him, he said. She said, fucking no. So he said that he went to his father's truck with the intention of leaving. And at that point point he didn't mention anything about a struggle or grabbing her or her bolting away from him

or any of that he just said I asked her if she wanted to fuck she said no I shrugged and got in the pickup truck which why would you leave your your dad and all the work crew there alone if you were leaving alone what sense does that make I'm so upset take a bath yeah Yeah. That's a weird thing to... I'm so upset I'm gonna take a bath. So he said that he went to his father's pickup with the intention of leaving like we said. He said as he started to leave he saw Cathy go to another truck that had just pulled into the alley. Okay. He described the truck as a custom F-150 Ford pickup truck, about seven years old but shiny with fog lights and 88 county plates as well.

He described the driver as having long hair, but he could not tell if the driver was male or female. Okay, now that's his story. That's where I saw her. I saw her going toward that truck. I tried to fuck her. She said no and I left. What do you want from me?

An 80 something with fog lights, all right. An 88 with fog lights. So, all right, the truck's an 80 something, yeah. Now June 6th now, so four days go by. And now the police are, they've done all the interviews, nobody really has anything to say or any leads, so now they're just doing searches. And now they're having by air.

Yeah, they said her sister Janice said it was unlike Kathy to go long periods of time without contacting her family because she takes care of her mom. So she checks in with her mom all the time. Her sister said if she was late for dinner, she would call home and tell you. She always keeps in contact. They said that they feared that she, and the said they've it's feared that Cathy may be

Injured since she hasn't contacted anybody so they're worried that you know, she's I'd say injured is a mild way to put that You're injured. Yeah, if you're You got a fucking sprained ankle here for sure can call home still usually death is what keeps you from contacting people She's missing. She's got a gout flare. It's not gonna be found for a we're gonna find her for a while Her colitis is really acting up So the police officer said we all know Kathy she would have she would have let somebody know where she was at by now At this point we're concerned really she'd be gone for five days. I'd be concerned too. Panicked. The police chief said he wanted to keep the search close to Ord in order to do a thorough

job. So start in a small area, comb that and then branch out from there. He said if it's not found, if Kathy's not found today, then the search will be expanded. Now Kathy's mother said she's very frustrated with her daughter's disappearance. She said I just wish someone would come up with something. I know she didn't expect to be gone long because she was taking care of the house and garden. And god damn it I need her to pull some fucking weeds if I'm being honest here. The dishes are piling up. She's inconveniencing me understand and I don't like it. Okay just don't like it. Now her mom also said that while her daughter has been gone family and friends have offered to help in her stead

So I'm good gardening is getting done in case anyone's concerned about my gardening I know you're all talking about my missing daughter asking me questions But if you have gardening questions, also weeds are pulled Yeah, and the rhododendrons are coming in very nice over there. I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. Like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down-low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well you were holding something back. And tension, I. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. No, it's hysteria.

It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery+. Was there a crime committed? As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't. Guilty By Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers

who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people in the United States. What are they guilty of? You can listen to Guilty by Design exclusively and ad free on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. So she said, I even had a friend from Kearney who wanted to come up. Yeah, people in a small town are pretty wonderful.

Except for whoever the fuck took your daughter. That's not a one. It's strange to go. Everyone's really wonderful. Five days after your daughter's missing and someone obviously took her. Everybody's so nice except for at least one guy. At least a guy. So police are going to re-interview John Oldson because really that's the only evidence or the only lead they have. So he's interviewed now by an investigator for the Nebraska State Patrol. Now we're bringing the state he's in.

Oh, yeah. He described that he saw a beard at the bar, asked her if she wanted to quote, "'Play a little touch and feel outside.'" Wow. Gentlemen, imagine going up to a lady in a bar that you know and be like, "'You wanna go play a little touch and feel outside?

What are the odds that that works, honestly? Want to go in the parking lot? Why? Touch and feel? Little game of touch, play a little touch and feel. He said though that she said no and told him that she does not think of him in that way. Probably because she's known him since he was a child and doesn't really think of him like an adult.

Okay, well, what about some suck and taste? How about that? Yeah. You sat there while I was saying that trying to think of a fucking other one of those. I saw your eyes going. I saw your brain working. What's the other options then? If she doesn't see him that way, then what else is he going to go have a conversation with her about? What are we going to do about why you don't see me that way? About how wonderful his penis is? What are we talking about?

You don't have another reason to be talking to her then. No, you really don't at that point. You really kind of fucked it. So I don't know. The whole thing is fucked. So she said that then he said when he continued to ask Cathy, she eventually agreed to go outside quote, at least to talk about it. So I don't, we'll talk about, I don't want you to feel me up, but maybe I

do. I don't know. Let's go outside and really get a round of fucking negotiations and we'll yeah, we'll decide Throw in the rust proofing and we'll talk about it Let's see we get the see if we payment down where we need it to be get it to about 245 a month We'll see what's going on. So Olson reported that it was about 730 p.m. When he and and Kathy stepped into the alley He reported that he and Kathy stood by the passenger side of his father's pickup. He again asked Kathy if she quote, would like to do something.

Of which he was pointing at his dick when he said it probably. You wanna do something or he's unzipping his pants? No. So she again said that she did not think of him in that way he said he became upset and tried to grab her by her wrists to pull her into the pickup I tried to kidnap her as his fucking he told the cops he told the cops that his story is I tried unsuccessfully to

kidnap her and then someone else must have done it. They must have saw me do it and been like good idea and then done it themselves. That guy has. Wow. Boy oh boy. So I don't know if maybe he thought that someone might have seen that happen so he had to say it possibly. That's the only thing I could think of why he would admit to that. So he said that she pulled away from him though and according to him she never entered the pickup. But she pulled away from him though, and according to him, she never entered the pickup. He said that he hopped in the passenger side door, slid over to the driver's side, and just drove away because he was so frustrated.

That's when... I don't like his story. No, his story is not good. And as he was leaving, he noticed a dark blue or black Ford pickup pull into the alley, and he saw Kathy walk over to the pickup and start talking to the driver she then walked over to the passenger side of the pickup and got in that's what he says he described the driver now he describes a driver as male before he didn't know if was a male or a female they just had long hair now he says male possibly with a mustache with long blonde hair and he

doesn't describe any other occupants he said it was a commercial pickup with 88 county plates he said he went home and took a bath he said he got this is now he's reporting two baths and within a three hours span that's too much bath for anybody so he said he got out of the tub to answer a phone call from Roger the bricklayer boss there at about 7.45. After the brief call with Roger about the brick work,

he finished his bath, he got back in the bath after that, then gathered up clothes and detergent to go to the laundromat when he was on the way out the door, that's when he ran into his father and Kittinger. And he- He does all his cleaning at night. At night, he's in tonight, is cleaning at night at night he's yeah he's into nights not on weekends he doesn't spend a Saturday afternoon I'm

gonna bathe me wash my clothes but if you just did something with a woman you'd probably want to wash the clothes you were wearing and yourself and your body is the problem now yeah at the same time he only had at the most estimation 45 minutes to get her to somewhere do something to her lose her significantly to where no one could find her then get back home take a bath because that's what this is he's post bath gather up his shit and be walking outside with his laundry hmm that's from fucking door to door from you know in in the bar to walking out with the laundry freshly bathed. That is not a long time to do any of that shit.

No. So that's... You already got a whole dug and... That's what I mean. You've got to have so much preparation already. You have to, and you have to have done this before and know what you're doing and that sort of thing. So that's when he said he ran into them. Then he said that Whitefoot called him later in the night. And a state trooper will say that law enforcement

investigated the owners of vehicles similar to Olson's description of the pickup truck with the 88 county plates. And all such individuals were ruled out as having any information or involvement in the disappearance, all the people they got from that. Okay. Everybody out.

Any dark colored pickup from that county basically. Now sometime around there, some one of these days, a local resident say they saw Oldson's father's pickup truck in the driveway of their house with both doors open and the seat completely removed and lying on the ground and a water hose ran to the truck and a bucket was nearby. They cleaned the inside of the truck. Under the seat. I've never taken a seat out to clean under it ever in a car. No, to clean under it?

No, never. That's hard work. That's a lot. That's at least four bolts, seat belts. That's a lot of work. Fuck yeah. Wrestling that far. An 80s-

Bench seat? An 82 Ford F-150 bench seat? That thing weighs a lot. That thing is big, man. Yeah. Holy shit. So by June 8th, there's still no luck in finding her. Still haven't found her. Still no clues.

They said they did an unsuccessful search for Kathy of Ord and it forced them to go back to the drawing board and talk about where to expand the search to. The police chief, John Young, said the search for Beard, who's been missing since May 31st, may be expanded during the weekend. They said, at this point, it looks like it could be a slow, long process. He suspects foul play is involved in the disappearance

because of the length of the time she's gone. And they said she wouldn't be gone for 10 days without telling anybody where she's been. They've worked overtime in the search for Cathy. The officer said, I would fucking hope so. I mean, look for her. They should probably not have anybody not working on this case.

Let's get everybody all hands on deck here. Always, yeah. For a couple hours the night before, volunteer firefighters walked and canoed the North Loop River outside of Ord, looking for any evidence of her, and they found nothing. The trip down three miles of the river from Ord was the second unsuccessful search for Kathy here, so they're having a hard time. Firefighters trudged through the river, and a pilot named Jerry Bauer of Ord flew overhead

in his airplane to find evidence of. They have all hands on deck, man. Firefighters also searched the Hardinbrook Dam, located a mile east of Ord, and old pilings that once held a railroad bridge. So if someone could shove it in a big tube there. And after a while, they're asking everybody to check their wells, everybody look in your wells. Oh, wow. Everybody look in your wells and make sure there's no young lady in there.

They said that the river and dam were searched because of their easy access to vehicles and many local people use the area for fishing, canoeing and quote other entertainment, which means fucking, I believe. I don't know what else you do there. Well, a lot of touch and feel. Little touch and feel. So the investigation for Cathy continuing, and her family doesn't know where the fuck she is. Her brother Bill took an emergency leave from work at the Air National Guard in Lincoln

to be with his mother to help. You know, someone's gotta do the gardening. Right, there's a shift being unfilled. We need an employee. We need somebody. So a lot of people have come, by the way, the chief of the Kirby, the future chief of police is married to his sister,

or married to Kathy's sister, not Kathy's brother's wife. So it's Kathy's sister's husband. Straight brother-in-law. Straight brother-in-law. Bill Beard, the brother brother, said a lot of people have come and said they're praying for her. That's the best we could ask of anybody. Now, Rex White, let's talk about Rex White. He's one of the robbers who robbed the Colorado guy and said they were looking for Kathy to find a fuck partner for their buddy there. That's crazy. Now, he gave a statement here about where that Kathy might be.

I guess they talked about, he had gone to work, I guess. There's a guy named John Hopkins. Not Johns, Hopkins. Not a doctor? John Hopkins, and he's Rex Rex whites boss on a cement job. Okay Yeah, according to Hopkins white told him quote. I know where she is. I Can I can show you where she's at? No, that's what Rex said John is just repeating this Rex told John this Rex said I can show you where she's at

We skinned her alive and I think she liked it. Now the boss, Hopkins, reported that White seemed to be telling the truth. Didn't seem to be lying. He wasn't joking, he wasn't giving an elbow in the ribs. Furthermore, this Hopkins got the impression from the conversation that Kathy was out in the open somewhere, they just dumped her.

Now who the fuck tells their boss we skinned a chick alive last week. A weird thing to tell your boss. And she liked it too. You are sick. So Hopkins' live-in girlfriend said that she recalled coming home from work and finding Hopkins sobbing in the living room about this. He felt terrible. The girlfriend said that Hopkins was upset because White had told them that they had killed Kathy. And White told Hopkins that he skinned her and buried her under concrete under a restroom

project north of Ord where White was working. So he was like, that's what he told me at the end, that he buried her in this thing and I don't know what to do. So she said, is there any way we can check this out to make you feel better and see if it's not true. So she and Hopkins drove to the job site where this lady was allegedly buried and found a bag of lime missing. Oh shit.

Which is not a good thing to find. It's the exact thing you'd need with a body. So that's not good. So he was really, really, really fucking freaked out. And they think they don't trust Rex White anyway because he's a fucking attempted pimp slash robber slash strong arm robber, you know what I mean? Very cheap one.

By the way, they came back, there's the someplace else in, and do you know what other bar they were at that night? Rex White and Hall. The Doudron? No, they were at the Y'all Come Back Saloon. The Y'all Come Back Saloon. The Y'all Come Back Saloon. Oh, man. Oh, boy, that is fucking hilarious. I've seen Dew Drop in.

I've seen a lot. I've never heard of the Y'all Come Back Saloon. Y'all Come Back Saloon. That is fucking ridiculous. And then that was before they went to the someplace else. So they stopped there. Now, I guess they became victim of then there was the armed robbery. All of them were questioned. Okay. Hall, White, the guy who got robbed, all of them were questioned. All of them passed polygraph tests. So all those things actually happened. All of those things certainly happened, but they said that we didn't kidnap Cathy, and

that's the important part. So then they go, well, how about a bunch of carnival workers? What about them? Carnies are scumbags. What do you think of them? They must be, they kidnap women and shit all the time. Is there a carnival somewhere? There's always a carnival around somewhere.

Kidding me? So it's the summer. It's May 31st. This is carnival season. So Brian Menser and a bunch of carnival workers they're going to talk to, one guy named Mel Ellingson, who was a boyfriend of Cathy's at one time, he said that Cathy once told him that a person by the name of Brian Menser was going to kill her and had threatened her once in a bar. Ellingson also recalled Kathy telling him that two guys from the carnival, why are you consorting with carnival folk?

That's the problem, that she was acquainted with had called her because they were going to be visiting. And this guy, Ellingson said that the men drove a green pickup truck while they were in Ord. Dark-colored pickup. Ellingson also said that the owner of the carnival lived in Taylor, Nebraska, and therefore would have 88 county license plates. Uh-oh. Okay, so there's that.

Now there's Kathy Sightings that are after her disappearance, which is a problem. I mean, they all think they're helping, but it's always bad. And this happens so much with the sighting, because people see somebody's face all the time and it's in their brain and they think they see someone, and they're looking for them, they're trying to find them. So one witness said that the night of her disappearance, he saw an unfamiliar man and a woman at the convenience store on the highway leading to Burwell, Nebraska, about 17 miles from Ord. The woman was approximately Beard's weight

and stature, but had darker hair. Well, it's probably not her then. And she appeared, quote, drunk or doped. Two other witnesses reported to law enforcement that on the day after her disappearance, they saw someone who matched the picture and physical description of Beard walk into a cafe in Morrill, Nebraska, which is 360 miles from Ord. She was carrying a jacket and a military green duffel bag, and the bag was, quote, full clear up to the top with clothing or other personal items and she looked tired. Now we know she didn't take her clothes with her so that can't be her unless she bought a whole new wardrobe. Yeah and this person has been traveling a while. She's exhausted. She's beat man. So the

Ellingson guy, her former boyfriend, said in a statement to police that he was traveling back to Ord from Valentine, Nebraska the day after Kathy's disappearance. While en route there at about 6 p.m., he saw a vehicle traveling in the opposite direction. He said he was traveling 60 and the other vehicle was traveling 90 miles an hour. How does he know that? So that's a fast, they're going by quick. He said there was three people in the vehicle and he, quote,

could swear that Kathy was seated in the middle between the driver and the other occupant. He believed he recognized the vehicles belonging to a person who had previously lived across from Beard's house and had dated Kathy at one time. It's her ex boyfriend. I saw, I could swear I saw her in her ex's truck, man. He got a look at three different people. Yep, that quick. And was able to identify two of them right now. Right now. Going 60 and they're going 90. 90, the other direction.

Flying. Yeah. Flying. So none of this is helpful, obviously. No. It's like where is she now? Because that doesn't help. Right.

So June 9th, 1989, they're still searching. And now they're saying that the search has failed, and they're saying that they need a wider search, and that they're suspecting foul play now as well. Now they're suspecting foul play. It's about time, guys. About time. By June 11th, 1989, so some time has gone by here.

This is 12, 13 days. Now they wanna talk more to John Oldson again. Because, you know, his story is crazy. He's taken some bitch, yeah. He's taken lots of baths and he said he tried to kidnap her. He said that, which that's his story. I tried to kidnap her, but somebody else got to her first. What a wild story.

What a wild place. If you're in this alley, just multiple people try to kidnap you. If you get away from one, someone else grabs you. Where the fuck are we? What kind of crazy place is this? This is unbelievable. So he said he was in the establishment. There's a cop say that the guy they're talking to, Olson,

this is a quote to the press, said he was in the establishment and left at approximately the same time she did. He's denying any involvement or any knowledge of her disappearance. And that's what he continues to do. But he also, some people see some weird shit. One lady named Barbara Dasher, she said she and John would often talk up to each other at the someplace else tavern. And one day while talking at the bar, this is after Cathy disappeared, Oldson suddenly quote, looked mean

and said right in my ear that quote, they'd never be able to find Beard. They'll never be able to find Cathy. On another occasion, Oldson told Barbara that quote, Beard was dead and that we'll never see her again. And on top of that, she deserved what she got. Wow. Okay, that's that she deserved what she got. Wow. Okay that's what she says that he said. Now July 1989, Oldson is arrested. Not for murder or kidnapping

or anything that has to do with Kathy Beard. He's arrested for something completely different. He's arrested for assaulting a woman in Burwell, Nebraska. This is common for him. He's gonna be convicted of this to a 51-year-old woman in Burnwell, Nebraska. According to the affidavit, he approached the woman in a gas station parking lot, okay? Gas station parking lot, walks up to a strange lady who's never seen him before and says, quote, I wanna see your belly.

Which is the strangest request from anyone I've ever that probably took her so like a back she's probably like what want to see your belly she refused I don't fucking know you I'm gonna show you my stomach so he punched her several times in the head pulled up her shirt rubbed and pinched her stomach and then fled the scene Gave her a raspberry Now this sounds crazy right yeah, where do you read his diary? That's what he's into He likes bellies. He's I will talk all about it. I want to save that for when it comes up here in a minute, okay, so he's arrested put in jail and, um, and for assault and he's kept and he's in there now while he's in his cell for the next,

oh, nine, 10 months or so, cause he'll be convicted of this. He keeps a diary, a very, very specific journal. And what happens is whenever he leaves his cell to do things every couple days the officers go in because they're all thinking he killed Kathy still or at least kidnapped her so they go in take his journal and photocopy the pages and then put it back they do it every couple days to know what the fuck he's been up to later on the cops will say they found all the pages in the garbage I don't know what to tell you but then it comes out that no the officers say later No, we took him every couple days. We take him out specifically so we could photocopy his journal. That's what we did. That's funny

So they do searches of his cell now they perform cell checks every other week and that's when they would copy a shit now 1990 he says some very strange shit here. He's got his girlfriend, he's got a girlfriend by the way, named Minnie, Minnie Eggers is her name. Minnie Eggers, which sounds like she has small tits, doesn't it? Minnie like Minnie Mouse, Eggers. And he'll end up marrying her someday by the way.

She says that she overheard Oldson, this is a woman at the bar, an Ord resident, said that she overheard Oldson tell his girlfriend Minnie that, quote, if she didn't do whatever it was that he wanted, he would do the same thing to her that he'd done to Cathy. This woman said that Minnie seems scared. How do they have no evidence against this guy? That's what I'm saying. He just keeps telling everybody shit. She said that Minnie seems scared and Oldson looked around to see if anyone had heard him

and Minnie told Oldson that she loved him and would do whatever he wanted at the time. That's what the lady said. Now he's got some woman problems as we'll talk about. He'll end up later on, he is going to be charged with third degree sexual assault in another incident. There's another third degree sexual assault. This happened right around this time where he is allegedly touched a woman's breast. That charge was reduced to third degree sexual assault.

He pleaded no contest, served 60 days in jail. So a jury found him guilty of the third degree assault of the Burwell woman, the let me see your belly. Let me see your belly. And it's so weird. That's so strange, you wouldn't even think it was strange because you'd be like, what? Did he just, it would take you a minute,

did he just ask to see my belly? What a weird thing to say. He's into the the bell bell if you're like nine months pregnant or something Let me see your belly be even weirder. I don't even know. She's pregnant No, not at all. She's 51. I hope not Yeah, that kid would not be in good shape if she was rubbing and pinching a belly So old son when she he wrestled with her pick pulled up her blouse and touched her stomach then jumped in his truck and drove away So with her, pulled up her blouse and touched her stomach, then jumped in his truck and drove away. So Oldson, he's in jail, he speaks to the press while in jail, okay? And he talks about, in addition to talking about Kathy Beard case, he talks about literature,

religion, sex, media, law enforcement, family, his time in a boy's home, his military service, and the fact that for some reason that mini broad just married him. I don't know why, but wow. He said he's just spilling it all. Oh, he's telling him everything. He said he knew Kathy his entire life. And when he was drinking, he tried to be more than a friend with her.

So we were friends and we were sober. When I got a couple of drinks in me, she starts looking good to me. Basically, she said he said she always refused to sexual advances. He said that Cathy would tell him, oh John, I like you as a friend, but never in that way. No, no, get away, no, no. But it was very like, yeah, it was very like playful. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm gonna try to get some, and she's like, no, you're not gonna get any. You know what I mean? That's how he describes it. But after a while, it seems like this would probably be uncomfortable for her yeah I mean yeah how many times can you be asked to play touch and feel before you're a little like okay that's enough now yeah and you and you've seen it happen a million times with your friends you know you know eventually you go dude

stop I'm uncomfortable she said I'm sorry he said John said every time I approached her I was pretty well tanked up I was real tanked up as a matter of fact, a couple times. What happens is you get more desperate as the night goes on. Well, yeah, that's obvious. Everyone knows that. Closing time is the prettiest time of the night. Everybody's beautiful at the, at the, the light of the newly raised bar, you know, like the newly, the lights just came on. Everybody looks pretty in that light. Oh man, that is the, it's the worst. Watching all those dudes like grabbing a piece of paper

and jotting down numbers and shit, it's hilarious. It's, and then I know, I remember as a bouncer, waiting for that to happen at the end of the night. Can I borrow your pen? You can hear that echoing through the bar. Can I borrow your pen? You can hear that echoing through the bar. Can I borrow a pen? Trying to figure out, are we gonna leave together and fuck even though we've been talking for two hours,

how's this gonna work out, and guys trying to close the deal real fast. So he said this, and this is insulting, quote, this is, you get desperate as the night goes on, finally I just reached the bottom of the barrel, what the hell, we'll try Cathy. And she wouldn't have anything to do with me Kathy has a bad reputation in town as being very easy by the way at the bar

That's that's a thing. So oldson said he talked to a beard in the bar on the night. She disappeared He said I had ridden there with my father after work I got in his truck and left as I went out the alley I saw her enter of another pickup and then they left, and then that's it. That's the last time I had seen or known anything about her. Yeah, I done blew it. Yeah, blew it.

That's what he said. He also, you know, he said he knows the, they said, well, do you know the area? Do you know like places in the woods where a body could be, you know, dumped? And he goes, well, yeah, I'm fucking from here I know everything but that doesn't mean I did it. So and then he talks about how him and his wife just had a son. When asked if he had a fascination for women's stomachs and we'll get to why because that there's a reason for it.

He said I'm not going to deny that that's one of my favorite parts of the body. It's not fixating thing. It's just one of several features of a woman that figures in on it. OK, now he. Yeah, that's what he said. He said that he he was working when he was charged with the third degree sexual assault. He's like, oh, that was crazy. I don't know what you're talking about. He said, Oldson said Nebraska State Patrol investigators

had been interviewing his female acquaintances and telling them that, quote, I killed Kathy Beard and that I was a sexual perverse animal and beware, you're next, to try to scare them so they'll give information. The sergeant of the Nebraska State Police said that's a fabricated and certainly not the truth. Sergeant of the Nebraska State Police said that's a fabricated and certainly not the truth

Yeah, they oldson said his faith in God has improved since he met his wife and You know he figures that they'll leave him alone eventually because his faith is telling him that he said I'd like to consider myself a good Christian only God knows how good I'm doing He said at one time. I wanted to be a priest even. I'm super religious. And they said, well, you know, they asked him if he has done anything that he'll never tell anybody. And he said, right now I would say there's a couple experiences I don't think I'm going to tell anyone for a long time.

But that was just mainly about blowing my friend in a tent one time. We were out there, we were like, you know, I never had a blow job, neither have you, you know what I mean? And we decided we'll fuck it, you know what I mean and we decided we'll fuck it you know what I'm saying and you know how it goes but I ain't gonna talk about that right now I'm gonna ruin nobody's life or nothing you know after all he's a congressman and everything now so he said his father once said of the beard case maybe that boy did do it but I'll tell you something if you guys haven't any more

of a clue as to what happened now than you did then he, but I'll tell you something. If you guys haven't any more of a clue as to what happened now than you did then, he's too damn smart for you and you better just give up because you ain't never gonna find out. And I did not. Too smart. Too smart, and I did not shorten any of those words. That is exactly what the quote is.

Because you ain't never gonna find out. They asked the father, they were trying to ask the father about it and he wouldn't talk to the press because they were like, did you really say that? John then says, I'm sorry, I'm not going to try to hide my intelligence. Oh, I'm, I need to. I'm not gonna dumb it down.

I'm not gonna dumb anything down for you guys. For you people, all right? I'm up here, okay? If you wanna come up to my level, then I'll fucking meet you there. You get left behind. That's how it works, Chief. I'm up here. Okay, if you want to come up to my level, yeah You get left behind that's how it works chief So he said quote. I'm not going to try to hide my intelligence. I'm often predisposed to brag about it I scored I scored a 29 on my ACT but along with that intelligence comes the idea Oh hell he did it. He's just covering up. So he says,

my intelligence works against me here. So now he's in jail still and he's expressing his frustration that he's not allowed out on work release for this jail sentence. And he mentioned Kathy by name saying that the Valley County attorney was so obsessed with Kathy Beard that they're not going to let him out early at all. He saying that the Valley County attorney was so obsessed with Cathy Beard that they're now we're gonna they're not gonna let him out early at all. He thought that the attorney and other law enforcement which he calls later on in his diaries the quote fried eggplant gang. I don't know what that means. I have I don't know what the fuck he's in so I'm like are they Italian? Is that it? Is it are they just are they just fat vegan? Yeah, are they Italian? Is that it? Are they just fat? Are they fat? Is it some sort of a racial slur against black people?

What the fuck, who are you talking about exactly? He can, fried eggplant gang. And as his release date approached, he expressed concern that law enforcement did not wanna let him out of jail and that he would have to come back. He says that he wrote about getting rid of something ASAP in his diary. He was incarcerated and therefore could not have any access to what he wished to get

rid of. And that was two months from his release. So that'll make sense in a second when we talk about his diaries. These are the diaries they found. Yeah. This is a diary kept between September 89 and late August 1990. And they made copies of these writings, and they made sure they were accurate copies and everything like that. In there, here it is that he says one of the things, quote, love that gut, tummy, belly, abdomen, stomach, midriff, middle, torso, etc. Holy shit. He got himself a thesaurus.

Wow. Looked up every word he loves. By the way, stomach fetish known as alveolo-luginia. Oh. That's a stomach fetish. That's a very specific thing. I am so jealous, by the way, that your fucking fetish is something that you could go to a beach and see thousands of

any time you want. You know what I'm into? Vaginas and boobs. Chicks just cover that up, man. They're always covering it up. There's nowhere, no one has a bare fucking vaginal area. They have a bare midriff. What's your...

This guy is... And then if you have the magazines that show that, you're a piece of shit. Jesus Christ, he could have just been sitting there whacking it to Britney Spears the whole time back then. She didn't have her stomach exposed for a 10 year period. She could be in Antarctica, she had a half shirt on, it doesn't matter. This guy's a dick. The belly, huh? Maybe that's why I'm not into it, This guy's a dick. The belly, huh?

Maybe that's why I'm not into it, because it's right there. I mean, I'm not against it, but I'm not like, yeah, give me that. I want to see the stuff you're covering. He hit every word that's a synonym. That's all of it. Yeah, he got us thesaurus crankin', man. He also says, extensive experience comes with Sandyondi, CB. What is that? Just the initials CB. What's Kathy's name? Kathy with a C beard. And Linda. Other mediocre experiences

with Robin, Kathy, there's another mention of a Kathy Shirley Shawna Alice and KP Donna H Irma S Allison Rhonda and then in parentheses from GI 1980 that's Grand Island I believe 1980 was he 13 for Christ's sake I think he was born in 67 Mary Jane Teresa 2116 resident16, resident upstairs, 1980. Yeah, he's banging neighbors. This guy was slinging fucking teenage dick is what he was doing. Or he's spying.

Man, slinging ding-a-ling from Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn to Beijing, this guy. He's going off on it like it was once said. Salinas, 1987, Lincoln, 48th and Layton, that must be where he met her, Lincoln, Darlene, Connie, Pam, Tammy S, Cammie G, Bonnie M, Carolyn D, et al. List remains incomplete. Will add more as more becomes available. Or more comes available. For now, must rate CB as most gratifying. Sandy as most comfortable.

Theresa as prettiest. Maybe Darlene. Just don't know they're all so nice and then ya. Y-U-H all capital letters with an exclamation point. Go on and getcha some. G-I-T-C-H-A, getcha. Go on and getcha some. And then exclamation point, you'll love pussy too.

He just did an ad for fucking women. For sex. Pussy, it's what's for dinner, if you're lucky anyway. Getcha some. In another exhibit later on he writes, I guess the whole import of this thing with quote the missing one has not hit home yet. But it should as they are now looking for charges. If they do prefer charges well and then a dash and a question mark, I don't see how

they can hang me for anything. Wow, why is he writing this? and then a dash and a question mark. I don't see how they can hang me for anything. Wow, why is he writing this? Then he writes, well, it looks as if this foolishness about the missing doo-doo has reached a point where the end is in sight. That's good, I like it. Perhaps now I can ease my mind. By the way, he calls people doo-doo all the time.

Doo-doo is a person, that's just what he calls people. I don't know why or how, but that's a thing. Then he writes in another excerpt here, I really have no idea about what to do or where to go. My first priority is to get rid of something ASAP! That is if I can still find them. The only dot dot dot link left between me and dot and...is what he says. Okay.

But after that I imagine I'll stay in the Midwest and try something. Maybe stick around here to work for Pop. He no doubt needs the help and I could use the...and then dollar sign... Then he says, and another one, maybe the problem has been my making girls too high of a priority and having real problems with accepting rejection. Which may be how all of this got started. Get it any way you can, in quotes, and then a question mark afterwards.

Like, is that the right thing to do? Doesn't sound like a good attitude. It got me in trouble. Now, is he talking about Kathy, or is he talking about show me your belly and then beating a woman and lifting her shirt up? That could go either way. Also, he said, I really have no,

oh, that's the ASAP thing, okay? He also says at one point, well, there it is. What's next, I wonder. It's getting closer and GS and the fried eggplant gang aren't moving. Although they still could conceivably, meaning it's getting closer to me, this is about two weeks before his release,

so they're saying, it's getting closer to me getting out of jail and these fucking people haven't charged me with anything yet, so maybe it's all gonna be cool. How, I don't know in fact, and then it's illegible, wonder if there's any way he could manufacture something, I doubt it. And then the next one, he writes, fried manufacture something. I doubt it. And then the next

one he writes, fried eggplant gang ain't making it. They're gonna slip and fall and generally fuck up. That's nice. He then says, I'm gonna get away and I'll bet it breaks their yellow hearts. They're so dead set that I did this and they're not gonna look any farther unless they are forced to. Well, now they'd best look somewhere else, because I refuse to be a part of the charade any longer. I'm well fed up with this Tomfoolery. Tomfoolery!

Yeah. Wow. They can stick it in their asses, so there. Tomfoolery. He says that, but also says Tomfoolery. Tomfoolery is 100. The journal entry, again again also reads this one here I've determined that I'm not gonna be physically bullied any by anyone any longer

I'm not determined. I'm not going to be physically bullied by anyone any longer. You're a huge guy You shouldn't be have been physically bullied by anyone in at least the last ten years and you were getting pussy when you were 13 I mean you should have been People should have been worshiping you at school throwing flowers at you or at least looking at bellies and beating off about something I don't know what these numbs are about what happened this guy can jerk off to anything yeah he's just a little stomachs out Jesus Christ if you can tug to a tummy wow the shit that's why I look for you you're lucky I have acquired a great

deal of confidence. I can see it in the people around me that they respect that confidence. This is good. Sure. I can now be what I want to be with no fear of any man. Of course emotional fear of women may still be there. I don't know. I haven't had any interaction with girls lately, obviously. In jail. Of course, I see little reason to fear any longer. I know pain, I know loss, I know hardship. Nothing that can happen can be as bad as what I've already been strict.

I think he means stricken. That's right. Yeah, I think stricken, because with is after that. Already been stricken with. He said strict. Yeah. Like stricken, but with a T instead of aicken but with a t instead of a d or a d instead of an n He says besides as much as I like being with girls and as much as I want a relationship

I would think that it's in my best interest to plunge in with no fear show off my best side, etc Maybe the problem has been making girls too high a priority then he gets into that Now based on all these writings, they obtain a search warrant and many search warrants for his shit, for that truck, for his house, for anything where he is basically, they get shit on because that's all very suspicious. His pickup truck is searched outside the fire department by members of the state police and they reported that they found nothing and all pick all materials were found inconclusive as relating to Kathy or him.

So they found nothing in his house or his pickup that was incriminating at all. And so that's that's tough. Plus they said that during the nine month period, he has had no access to the house, the grounds or the pickup truck or had been able to dispose of any evidence located within. He could have done that before he went to jail, but since then he hasn't been able to. May 10th, 1990, they're still looking for her. So this is almost a year now.

Still looking for her, and they're trying to figure out if this is the time when they're really thinking that maybe Hall and White and the guy from Colorado that got robbed did something. They're because of the missing bag of lime they don't like and all that kind of thing. They said they're going to interview them again and they said we want our investigators to interview them to obtain more details from them. We've also discovered other things since they were interviewed by Colorado authorities that we just want to talk to them about. Yeah, how do you make yourself a suspect in a murder? How do you do that? By saying I went there to look for pussy and you know. And also telling your boss

that we skinned a girl alive. And buried her on a job site. And I think she liked it. And they also said their key suspect, who they don't name in the paper, but it's Olson, has obtained counsel and refuses to take a polygraph test. That's not good. He's saying, you've been bothering me for a year, I'm done with this shit. So he's released from jail in 1990, okay?

August of 1990, 16 days before he was released, he wrote this journal entry. Here we go. Ha ha, exclamation point, the Valley County attorney is a stupid slut, exclamation point. Is he a gal? It's no, it's a guy.

Oh, okay. He's a stupid slut. Really? Yeah, he doesn't use like gender specific, sometimes he calls people doodoo, sometimes he calls guys sluts and like, you know, women big dicks. It's like it's the weirdest thing. He will never find anything no matter how hard he looks because there's nothing to find. He's too stupid to manufacture everything. He's just doo-fah.

Doo-fah now, not doo-dah or doo-doo. He's just doo-fah and he'll always be scum. do. He's just doofa and he'll always be scum. I've beaten him! Of course there was never any doubt in anyone's mind that I would. If he ever turned it into this kind of thing, so ha! Double exclamation point. He wrote that and then got out of jail. Never went to prison. Nine months? Yeah, and he kept writing all this crazy shit that they're reading. The day before doing this, he wrote this also right before he got out of jail. Every sound I hear that I cannot directly identify and every time anything questionable happens with Woody or some other law person makes me suspect they're talking about me

or plotting some way to keep me here forever. I have to imagine that G.J. is working feverishly to prevent my slipping out of here. I bet he can't stand the idea that I'm going to quote get away. Too bad. He better leave me the fuck alone. Death is no stranger to me, Army and all. You were in the Army for a year and a half in the United States and then had to go home with a fucking torn MCL like you're a fucking punt returner. What are you talking about? You blew out your knee. He acted like he was in NAMM. I had to I stepped on the heads of babies. Death is no stranger to me. I burned villages to

the ground god damn it. You're in California. You blew out your knee away from the beach. Yeah, running, playing beach volleyball, he was doing that. I've seen death and all, that's because they went to Tijuana one time and saw them throw a dead donkey out of the back of a bar. Saw a woman fucked to death by a donkey that wouldn't quit. You know, army and all. Oh boy. So summer of 1990, still searching for Kathy.

Really? Yup. Searches, they searched everywhere. They keep doing it by plane. They encouraged hunters to look all around the woods for anything they might found that could possibly turn up a ring, things like that, a bracelet, a ring, anything. They turned up nothing. Beard's family then posted a $1,000 reward for information leading to her whereabouts. I'd like somebody to add to that,

because that's not a lot. Grant? Yeah, and then they talked to Charlene Whitefoot, who is the bar friend there, and she says that she's helped search for her, and she still has faith that she's alive, though. She says, I don't want to that she's helped search for her and she still has faith that she's alive though. She says, I don't want to believe she's dead, I want to believe she's alive. Really? I want to believe, well two years later, no one is believing she's alive

probably. No. Because by April of 1992, we've all kind of lost hope here. And they've stopped looking for her to be perfectly frank because they can't find her. So April of 1992, a woman and her three children are picking up trash on their very, very large and remote property. Oh no. The area is called Party Hill, okay? That's where everybody goes. That's what I'm saying, the teenagers earlier

don't need somewhere to go, because they all go to Party Hill to drink and finger each other. That's why they're there. That's it. This is De'Eda Petska found it, was in this area. And she owns Party Hill?

Her father owns Party Hill, her father-in-law owns Party Hill. She was picking up garbage. She said that she discovered a skull as they were picking up trash along the road. She said they were headed home when she looked to her left and saw the top of a skull partially buried. She dug around it and picked it up

and took it to the police station. Tell you what you do guys, if you find a skull, don't fucking touch it. Okay. Number one, don't disturb Newman remains. Don't touch it. That's evidence. She showed up, walked in with a fucking woman skull and said I have this is this anything With soil under her nails that dug this well have you never seen a crime show in 92 you've seen crime shows Come on, man. Don't do that So she did it though. She took it there and then she and the police chief John Young and another officer went to where she found it and she said it was possible to for that a road maintainer might have scraped the skull is what they figured

out because it's right on the side of the road she said my first thought that it might be was that it might be Kathy beard or it might be an Indian grave site either way don't touch the skull. Do you go to Indian burial grounds, start picking skulls up and going, anyway, what's this about? There's a whole ancient civilization that buried their Ted. I'm not touching that. No, I don't know if it could be cursed.

No, I'm not going to find out. I saw that family guy when Stewie did. I'm not going to fucking mess with that. I'm not going to be the guy that experiments in that way. Fuck. So all they will say is quote, human remains believed to be that of an adult person and other items were recovered on Monday and Tuesday at a site three miles east and two and a half miles south of Ord. They searched the area after they discovered the skull and they said I had that one cop said I have no idea if what we found is related to Kathy Beard. Okay they were found these remains in a pasture beyond a fence alongside a

minimum maintenance road about six miles outside of Ord. Traveling the speed limit from the someplace else tavern to the place where the remains were found takes about nine minutes Traveling the speed limit from the burial site to oldson's residence is also nine minutes 18 minutes so that's 18 minutes combined We got about 45 minutes for him to drive kill get back bathe gather his laundry Yeah, and when's he gonna enjoy the murder and the whatever the things is gonna do to her belly Yeah, right or something. So they put up police tape and They set a path leads to this area which is owned by Ken Petska of Ord and it appeared as if the investigators were focusing

Their search in a gully near the road because that's where it was were focusing their search in a gully near the road, because that's where it was. The site is used for beer parties, and that's what they always say. Beer parties. So there's been 92, 92. So while this is going on, there's been hundreds of drunken fucking Nebraska teenagers

who have traipsed over, back and forth over this woman's body, which is fucking ridiculous. Beard's family identifies the personal items this woman's body. Which is fucking ridiculous. Beards family identifies the personal items found with the body. And yeah, one of the cops said, we had some results of some testing that would indicate that the body we have is Kathy.

And we also have some items that were found at the site where the body was located. And those were shown to the family members who identified them as being Kathy's. They said, we're pretty sure of what we have, but we're calling it tentative simply because we have some other testing that will go on to make it more positive, like DNA, dental records and all that shit. So they said that she, they said, I don't expect to get any surprises from the testing.

I expect the testing to confirm what we already believe we know. So that's that. They said some of the things that she would have been wearing at the time were found with the body. So there you go. Kay Schaefer, who was her friend and boss at the someplace else, said she hoped the tentative identification would give Beard's family some peace of mind. She said, what they've gone through these past three years is terrible.

I've suffered too. Sure. Yeah. Her mom, Kathy's mom, said we are sad that Kathy was killed but relieved that she's finally been identified and can be returned to us and be put to rest. Well they don't know that actually because they asked the cops, can we bury Kathy? You can't. And he said that's a tough question to answer. He said, I guess I have a presumption that when the testing is done, there'll be no need to hold the body at that time

and it'll be released to the family, but I don't want that to sound like a promise to them. I don't know any reason why we would need to keep it for evidence or anything like that, but who the fuck knows, basically. If we can answer every question we need answered, then maybe we can release it, but. Maybe.

I don't know. So what the fuck happened to Kathy? How did she end up here? Great question. A forensic anthropologist specializing in bone trauma says that Kathy's remains indicated blunt trauma to the chest, face, and skull. Got the whole body, huh?

Before she died, yep. In addition, the remains indicated stab wounds in the ribs lumbar vertebrae sacrum and wrist So they said these together indicated foul play in a violent death because at first they said if it's just blunt force She could have been walking down the street got hit by a fucking car and ended up over here They said well unless somebody got out of the car and stabbed her a bunch, then no, that's probably not true. If there's tool marks on the ribs and wrists, Jesus Christ, that's savage.

They said the stab wounds could not have been caused by a pedestrian vehicle accident. Generally not. Generally cars don't have knives sticking out of them. There's not a lot of cars with knives on them. This isn't Thunder Road at Greece where things are gonna... So the pathologists testified that when a pedestrian's hit by a moving vehicle, the pedestrian suffers a characteristic basilar fracture of the skull caused when the body

lands while in rotation off of the vehicle. Beard did not suffer such a fracture also. They also found the sweater she was last reported wearing buried in the area. Buried separately of her. Oh. Completely. And you know why it's buried separately? It makes a lot of sense when you do it.

No. In the sweater, in the abdomen area, over her stomach is a cut out hole. What? Someone cut the hole out of her fucking sweater so you could see her stomach. That is so creepy. That is fucking weird as shit. The hole did not come from stab wounds. They said this was cut ahead of time.

It's a patch of material missing. Just cut a big hole in the middle. So they collected blood from the sweater, compared it to Beard's mother, and it is Kathy's sweater they know for a fact. Even though everyone said that's the sweater she was wearing that night. So who the fuck would want to see your stomach so bad they cut a hole in your sweater? I can't imagine. It's so weird.

So Aldsen said he agreed to make further statements to law enforcement, but the cops said shortly before he was to give a statement, his attorney contacted them and said that he was not going to give further statements. He is not willing to talk about bellies tonight. So they're freaked out, obviously. They're like, this is very weird. So they turn their attention back to Rex White and Glenn Hall. Since this guy won't talk, let's talk to them,

even though it's obviously he's the main suspect. No one else is that in the stomach. There's a guy who likes that thing, yeah. So this is interesting. Now, White and Hall again pass a polygraph test. And they said that, they said, well why did they tell their boss they killed this guy? And the state patrol said,

basically we feel that Glenn Hall and Rex White were both trying to sound tough and intimidate people. As far as being suspects, they were discredited and disproved. So weird. They're guys who will look for local women to fuck for money and strong arm rob people in motel rooms. I think they're just scumbags who want to sound cool.

And then take credit for murders that are... They're like a rapper telling a story about somebody and then putting themselves in it, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So they also cleared the Colorado seed salesman, the guy who got robbed of being involved in the murder. So now they say they have one suspect. And one only.

One only, and that is John Olson. Back to him. They had a memorial for Kathy. This wasn't until 1993, February of 93. So 10 months after they even found her body, they had the memorial. They had to wait and hold it for testing. Almost four years after her death. That's crazy.

More than 200 people gathered, which is 10% of the town for Christ's sake. That's a lot. It's not bad, yeah. In a memorial service and they read her poem. And, eh, the hell it's short. We'll read it. It's called I Am Richer Today by Kathy Beard. And it said, I am richer today than yesterday

because of another friend I've made and maybe because I could laugh with you to help you forget that you were afraid. I am richer today than yesterday because I gladly lent a helping hand. I listened to all your trouble and doubts and I sincerely tried to understand. I am richer today than yesterday. I helped you make the I helped you take the time to think and pray. We made stepping stones of stumbling blocks. Now every day can be a lovely day." Okay, so they read that. Then they buried her.

Now Barbara Dasher, remember her? She's the witness who said, okay, she said that after Cathy's remains were found, John Aldson threatened her and said that if you say anything, she could quote get the same thing as Beard. Yeah. All right. Now he also heads to this is fucking weird.

A friend of Minnie's tells the cops that when Kathy's remains were discovered, Oldson and Minnie suggested they should go to the site where the remains were found. Why? Why? Why? If you had nothing to do with this, why the fuck would you want to be anywhere near that shit? They said that Olson was driving like he was really anxious and nervous and was talking very excitedly on the way there.

The friend didn't recall what he was saying a lot of the times though because she said part of the time Olson was speaking with Minnie through sign language. What? Which the friend doesn't do sign language, so she doesn't know. They both know it though? They both apparently know it, but Minnie says later that he didn't know enough of it

to communicate with her. Apparently she knows sign language really well. I don't know if she's deaf or is a deaf family member or what. So the press even talked to Oldson after the remains are found. He denies being responsible for his death He said I was an acquaintance of hers He then claims to the press that I couldn't have done any of this because until I married my wife recently I was a virgin. I've never had sex. I was a virgin

Yeah Now that's very important that he says that because he's gonna maintain that as part of his story. Really? And that's gonna make his diaries very much admissible in a court of law. Okay. To discredit him to say well you said you fucked all these ladies. This is a very big mistake for him to say that. He went too far with his lie. I was a virgin. Get the fuck. You were in the army. You were telling me you went to the army and didn't, you know what I mean, fuck one of these. No, I'm sorry.

So he told one of the journalists that he tried to get beard into his truck, but didn't happen. He said he became, that's when he gave the bottom of the barrel comment here. Well, what the hell, we'll try beard. She said no. And he told the cops I saw her get into another truck. So that's 1993. Time goes by. It's cold. It's cold as shit. They've interviewed the shit out of him and they got nothing.

They don't have enough to charge. They have all the evidence they're pretty much going to get. They have at this point. They have all the physical evidence which connects him to her zero. The only thing they have is weird journals making a fucking viewing window in her sweater and the fact that people saw him go out the back with her but no one saw them leave in the same truck together. And by his own admission and assertion, attempted kidnapping. And he attempted to kidnap. They should at least. And he tried to attempt to kidnap.

They should at least charge him with that, an attempted kidnap. You said it. So by 1999, it's crazy, the newspapers around there have all sorts of 10 years later stories, Kathy Beard's murder still remains unsolved. It's a big deal in a small town like this,

a murder of a resident's a huge deal. So they keep doing it. They said they're still trying to bring her killer to justice. Her family, her mother, who's still alive, said, we're all coping pretty well. We're just accepting that it may never be solved. These are very calm people. Yeah, no kidding. When they found her body, they were like, listen, you know, we're just happy. We have closure. Like they're, wow. The police chief at this point, Orde Police Chief Brian Kirby,

who is Kathy's brother-in-law, said the police department conducts quarterly meetings with the Nebraska State Patrol investigators. He said they wanted to go through everything again and sit back down with myself and the police department and see if there was the possibility if something was being missed or if any of us had any new ideas on how to approach some things. He said this too because they said, oh, you must really be into this because it's your sister-in-law.

And he says, when I walk into work, it's personal no more. It's my job then. Yeah, right. And when you go home, your wife says, why the fuck haven't you found who killed my goddamn sister yet? Because I mean, dude, everyone nags each other in a marriage. Imagine if you had the power to jail your sibling's fucking your wife, your spouse's sibling's murder and you don't. You don't even care about my family. Yes, I do. I guess I'm trying. You haven't even solved my sister's murder. There's no DNA. She's or he went on to say it's my job then. You hope that you can see something in there that everybody who looked at it 500 times before missed. And that's

all I can hope for. I knew Kathy for 15 years before she was killed. It's always hard, but I still think I have an open mind enough to deal with anything we come up with." They expressed frustration, though, that they haven't solved it yet. The one other detective who's on it all the time says, my emotional side says somebody saw something and they haven't reported it for a reason. They're scared. They didn't think it meant anything.

The other side of me says, you stop and think about time of night and where it occurred. And yeah, there wasn't a lot of people out there in that alley. Just wasn't. That's just how it goes. He said, it's quite possible that nobody did see anything except the perpetrator and Kathy. It's hard for me to fathom how it could have happened that way. He says, though, as time passes, this investigator says he feels less and less optimistic that they'll ever find the murderer. He says, I still have some optimism. At some point in time, the truth about this will come out. It may not be in my lifetime.

Somebody who knows something will come forward and tell us the truth about what happens or what happened. So I thought that about JFK. Yeah, it's someone we're here still waiting. It's a long time. 60 years still waiting for that shit. So I thought that about JFK. Yeah, it's someone. Still waiting. It's a long time. It's 60 years. Still waiting for that shit.

So what the fuck's Olson been up to? Well, Olson has, 1989 was his third degree assault for the belly incident. In 1992, he was arrested and jailed for sexual assault, third degree sexual assault as well. What is that? What is third degree? I don't know. It's a plea deal is what it was because I read the thing. Then in 1998 he's jailed for intentional child abuse as well.

They think that he moved to Missouri at this point. Okay, 1998 is when he's arrested for the child abuse. Then he gets arrested again for child abuse and in 2005 he was released from a two-year prison sentence for child abuse. You know what he was doing? What? Sticking needles into the stomachs of his two stepchildren Into the stomachs? This is some sexual involved in this for him. That's gross. Yup. In 2003 he was convicted of felony child abuse and sent to prison for doing that.

Only two years? Two years. During a search of his home they found pornographic photographs of naked women with daggers and arrows drawn onto their midsection. He's obsessed with fucking people's stomachs and what's in there and getting stuff out of there or some shit. He loves your guts. Yeah, he thinks it's like the inside of a crab. It's so weird. So 2008 now, it's been almost 20 years for this shit. They put Cathy's face now and a few details of her disappearance are printed on a set of cards that was part

of a deck featuring cold cases and distributed at state prisons by the Nebraska State Patrol. So they could play cards with victims. So you could see them and remember them. So that's how it works. Now the investigation into her death is reopened in May 2008 when Sheriff Casey Hulbert was appointed and he said, let's fucking solve this thing Why don't we since it's there probably isn't a whole lot of unsolved murders hanging around this area now

2010 Olson's now ex-wife Minnie does a police interview and she says that after they were married in police interview and she says that after they were married in 1992 when she married John, he admitted to her that he wanted to have sex with Beard on the night she disappeared but she turned him down. She also told police that he had a temper and an obsession with women's abdomens and that he was sexually turned on by them. What is there to be turned on by?

I don't get it. What's... Fuck it. You can't. That's what I mean. What do you... Okay, you like really crunch yourself. Like hold your legs together. That way I can... Okay, now I'm gonna put my dick in your... How else would you do it? Is he fascinated by how far up inside there you can go? Because... I don't know. It's not far, sir. Because it cause it's not hairy on a woman. Maybe if it's so different than a man. I don't know what her fucking deal is. It's very strange. This guy. So 2011 Jerome walk away. We act walk a whack is his name. Um, he enters the picture. Who the fuck is this guy? You figure, right? Yeah. Well, in the beginning of this interview, he says that he saw Kathy

Beard leave with Olson out of the back door into the alley. He says he didn't see Olson or Beard after that. The door to the alley, he said, was solid and there's no window in it so he didn't see outside. When, I guess, that's what he said in 89, and he, I'm sorry, in 89, he recalled that there was a window in the door in the alley and that he had watched Beard get into a pickup truck with a man with a red beard. So like, why are you saying, giving us different information now than you said? Now you're saying she walked out, no window, never saw her again. In 89, you saw her very specifically get into a pickup truck, through a window with a red

beard. When moments later, law enforcement assured this guy that he had nothing to fear from John Oldson anymore, look, you don't have to worry about this guy anymore. He said that, okay, I didn't see anything after Bearden Oldson left through the back door. When they pressed this guy to tell him who had him make up a story about the 88 county truck there, he denied that anyone told him to tell the story.

He said he couldn't recall why he told that story. It was 20 fucking plus years ago and I don't know. He said that sometimes he thought the red bearded man story was the truth and sometimes he thought he might have made it up. He's not sure because so much time has gone by. And also no window altogether. Why would you even make that up at all? Peeking out. That's what I mean. So they tried to focus his attention on, Hey, let's get

justice for Kathy and closure for her sister. You know, my wife home is a motherfucker. You don't even know. Maybe you fix my house for me. Yeah. They emphasize that they knew Jerome was not involved in the disappearance, but they really needed him to tell the truth. And they're like, it's getting tense in here, where they're like, listen, motherfucker, tell the truth. And an officer suggested that there was no window in the back of the bar, so the statement in 89

could not be accurate. And then he said, Jerome said he just did not remember giving the statement in 89. So they said, why'd you tell the red beard story? The questioning became more forceful Eventually one of the officers told Jerome that there was no window in the back of there So what are you doing again? I we've told you that this guy said I need a break He said alright, we'll take a break get a drink of water use the bathroom

So they sit back down and he says the more I think about it the store that that story comes to mind He and because he had apparently seen it with his own two eyes, if there was no window in the back door, he must have walked into the alley. He said, I must have. He said, I can't imagine myself making up a story about Kathy leaving with a red-bearded man, so that must have been what I saw. I don't remember if it's true now, but at the time, why would I have made it up? So they said, could you possibly have just heard it around town and maybe repeated it?

And he goes, ah, shit, I don't know. And then he said, maybe that's possible. Then five minutes later, he said, no, that's a lie. I didn't hear it from anybody. God damn it. When one of the officers pointed out what you're about to point out and what everyone in the fucking audience right now is pointing out Yeah, we're just going in a big circle here, bro. Yeah, he responded. Yeah, I know it

I wish I could get off the circle. I don't want to be in no circle anymore. Oh I don't want to be in no circle anymore with you people. No, no more Yep, they said when asked by the cop what they were supposed to think, he said that I'm a confused person on this. Oh my God. I think this guy probably had six drinks in him that night. Yeah, and he says some shit and now he regrets it. And he doesn't know if he heard it, so I don't know what the fuck happened.

And now he's like, I wish I just would've said I don't know when they asked me the first time. Mine did my own fucking business. So January 2012, Randolph, Missouri, John Olson is arrested, okay? Yeah. They are arresting him for the murder of Kathy Beard. Really? Yes. They also say they have pending charges involving another sexual assault against a woman in her 40s. Uh oh. Clay County Sheriff Bob Boydston said, this is a bad man with a very disturbing, violent past. When Valley County Sheriff

Hulbert contacted our office about Oldson and his history, I knew we needed to take action quickly to get him in custody. I'm grateful for his perseverance in this case and that we're able to work with his office. The arrest last night makes our community safer and was just the first steps toward justice for Kathy Beard.

Okay, but how? But how is the question. That's the thing. I don't know what they're thinking, but while he's incarcerated, because they put him in jail, he has conversations with Minnie, who was his ex-wife, but now they're talking again.

Minnie Eggers. Minnie Eggers. And they're now, they were recording these conversations because I think Mini's there at the behest of the police. Olson speculated that law enforcement may have been able to find quote a few molecules of DNA evidence linking him to Beard, he said. Mini questioned how could that be possible if you weren't there? Right. And so that's how this goes. These conversations showed that he was concerned

that investigators may have found evidence here. He was generally trying to explain why officers had arrested him for murder and speculating that new DNA testing techniques may have shown that his DNA was mixed with Beard's DNA on some item on or in an area of his father's pickup. So to rationalize how investigators might find a mixed DNA sample in his father's pickup, he admitted that he struggled with Beard and tried to pull

her into the pickup. He said, quote, well, we don't know that they found nothing. They probably found plenty and they just probably never told anybody what they found because they couldn't attach. They couldn't do anything with it at the time. But you see, with the techniques they think, Ooh, Ooh, no, we've got something. I don't know. Then his wife says, but how could they have found anything if there's nothing to find Johnny, if you didn't do it? Right. Yeah. He said, that's the thing. See, okay. Now you know, that's the thing.

What happened was all they have to do is find a spot, any one spot anywhere where your DNA and the victim's DNA are in the same place. That's all they've got to find. They don't have to prove anything else anymore. And the wife says, are you saying that's true? And he said, I tried. I wrestled around with Kathy Lee Beard. I tried to pull her into the pickup saying come on. Let's go do it

What that that's a very that's gonna work every time. That's like cult 45 works every time. Come on. Let's go do it Let's play touch and feel what do you say as you grab her? Come on forcefully try to put her into a pickup truck full of masonry tools what What chick could resist it? God, so hot. He then said, no, I don't like you. She said, no, I don't like you in that way. And she may have bumped the side of the pickup. She may have put her hand down on the seat. She may have, you know, whatever may have fallen down on the floor. I don't know. Not, not fucking 20 years later. Wow. In another excerpt, he speculated about where the investigators might find a mixed DNA sample from Beard and himself.

He said, you know what it could be? This is gonna be, I would love to hear all of these. I'm a bricklayer, all right? Oh, now I'm fascinated, sir. I've just like made a little, put my fingers together, they're under my chin, and I'm just so ready to hear everything you have to say. What if they say, with Tess, we found her DNA on your brick hammer?

Why? What? Why? Why would you have a hammer? What? Or we found DNA on the bumper of your truck. You hit her with it, you killed her that way. Or you, we found DNA on a gas can can you torched her and set her on fire

You know well, we know that didn't happen so Or you know who knows I have no idea what I have no idea what they're gonna find because and here's the thing It's not gonna worry me He loves say here's the thing. It's not gonna worry me I've never was never denying that we mingled, that our DNA would have mingled somewhere. He keeps using the word mingled, like that makes it acceptable.

We've mingled somewhere or another because I grabbed her by the arm and I tried to pull her into the truck and she struggled back and so I got ahold of her and she was pushing against me and I think she put her hand down on the seat, wants to balance herself as she tried to pull away so her DNA was on the truck. Her DNA was on me.

Sure. He's just explained it away. He said, yeah, they said, well, what happened? He insists that all I did was quote, approach the town floozy at the saloon and say, hey, baby, come on out back. Yeah. Come in here with me and we'll go do something. Yeah. No, I don't like you in that way. They scrambled around a little bit and he said that she may have bumped her head. How? And then she said,

he said that she managed to jerk herself away and he said listen the whole thing I haven't been as upfront as I should have been he said I was just embarrassed because the town floosie wasn't even interested in me Okay, so now he's garnering fucking sympathy He said he was upset and angry and that's why he left because he was too embarrassed to go in and face his co-workers Saying that even the town floosie turned me down and face his co-workers saying that even the town floozy turned me down. He said he went to a job site and quote, did some things. I don't know what that would be. I guess that means jerk off.

Jerk it a little bit to pictures of fucking midriffs. Then he went home, took a bath and grabbed some laundry, ran into his father on his way to the laundromat. In another conversation, he again wondered what kind of evidence they might have. He talked about, again, he brought a brick hammer, bumper of the truck, gas can. His embarrassment over being told no by the girl that evidently sleeps with everybody

made him leave his dad and all of his coworkers at the bar. Everybody ditch him and go back to work after being off for three hours. Yeah, it's doing Can't show my face in there This is when a wrench gets thrown into the whole thing, okay Okay The defense his lawyers come up with a diary not one of his diaries

What is called the quote sex ranch diary what yes, okay? The defense suggests that beard had been with Jean back its back us and wet so back us. They're a married couple and Was ultimately murdered by Jean back us the back us is owned 2300 acres in Garfield County, Nebraska near orde and she was their third They're saying, well, sort of. That's kind of it. They indicated that in March 2012, the current sheriff for Valley County

came in contact with handwritten pages from a diary. The diary contained information regarding the possible death of a woman by the name of Kathy from Ord. The sheriff testified that the diary facially appeared to belong to Jean Bacchus, who was married at that time to Wetzel Bacchus. The diary included that, quote, Cathy's death, as well as the death of three other women, had occurred on the Bacchus ranch. The sheriff said that the other women listed in the diary were Sharon Bald Eagle, Karen Weeks and Jill D. Cutshall.

All these women were known to have disappeared. Bald Eagle disappeared in 1984, Weeks and Cutshall disappeared in 1987. They disappeared, never were found. The sheriff also says that the diary referred to Kathy as missing from Ord in 1989. No other Kathy is missing from Ord in 89. And the sheriff affirmed that the diary indicated a local man was being blamed for Kathy's disappearance as well. Right.

Further, the diary indicated the author of the diary had run Kathy over with a pickup. The sheriff said that he conducted an investigation into the diary and explained that Gene Backus denied writing the diary and had granted law enforcement permission to search the ranch. They conducted a thorough search and were unable to find any human remains or any other suspicious evidence at the Backus property. I don't have a lot of confidence in these people and their searching. Yeah, but what is this diary about? Who did this? The sheriff did not believe the diary was valid, okay? Now, when they come to John's trial, the defense wants the sex ranch diary in evidence. He's like, this is another suspect.

So the defense was able to adduce a trial testimony that the diary had been found and the diary was purportedly authored by Bacchus. The defense was also able to get testimony detailing the events described in the diary such as the abduction and sexual abuse of the missing woman and the killing of Kathy from Orde. The defense adduced evidence that the diary's description of the missing woman was somewhat consistent with real events. But the defense was unable to enter the diary pages themselves into evidence.

They wouldn't accept them. At a separate hearing, the court had sustained the state's objection to the admission of the diary pages on the ground of a lack of authenticity. The court explained there's insufficient evidence to support a finding that this is what it says it is. The diary was mailed from an unknown address in Omaha, and they said that the parties had stipulated at the hearing that the purported diary pages were mailed from an unknown address in Omaha, Nebraska, to Olson's home address while he was waiting trial. Oh. indicated it was from Lonnie with no return address. Inside were 54 pages of handwritten entries by an unnamed authorship which appeared to have been torn from a bound diary and are

contained in the record pursuant to Olson's offer of proof. So they do a Jean Backus deposition. She's 88 years old at this point. And she testified she never kept a diary or a journal. She did not recognize the leather diary cover or diary pages presented to her and that she did not recognize the handwriting of the Inscription or the diary pages now when my grandmother was 88. She didn't recognize her own son So, you know what I mean writing was precarious Yeah, they she might not recognize a writing from 40 years ago is that she made it So but she would regular remember killing women, probably. You'd think, yeah.

Now, the defense counsel obtained several samples of Bacchus's handwriting during the deposition, but no handwriting analysis was conducted, nor did the defense counsel argue at the hearing that a jury might find that the diary was written in her handwriting. They said the handwriting on the envelope seems to match a handwritten inscription on what was purportedly on the inside of the diary's cover, although it's not entirely

clear where the diary cover was found. The exhibit is a photograph of a leather brown diary with numerous pages torn out. Inside the cover has a handwritten inscription, Mary Exmus Jean, as well as Bacchus's address at the ranch. Now a person of some acquaintance with Bacchus, a guy named Douglas Olson, was suspected by all parties of having mailed the diary pages to Olson. Bacchus testified in her deposition that Douglas worked at a sale barn in O'Neill, at a sale barn in O'Neill, Nebraska, where she sold her cattle.

And sometimes Douglas would work at her ranch hauling and vaccinating her cattle. So they in support of the authenticity of the diary pages, the defense presented copies of several letters apparently either sent by Douglas to Bowers or found in the boxes of Bacchus related items kept in by Douglas to Bowers or found in the boxes of Bacchus-related items kept by Douglas. These included several typed letters from an unnamed author to Bowers sent in a handwritten envelope to her and handwriting facially similar to that of the envelope which the diary pages had been mailed to Oldson and similar to the diary inscription. Okay, the letters themselves are incomprehensible.

They seem to refer to a conspiracy with the ultimate end of Bacchus' keeping the ranch and other parties gaining money. The letters also refer to a man being held for several weeks, drugged in Douglas' basement and Douglas' attempts to free him. There's no reference to these letters to a diary or to a kidnapped woman kept at the Bacchus Ranch. Apparently, a private investigator also obtained a handwritten letter that was in possession of the owners of the O'Neill Barn where Douglas had worked. The letter offered for purposes of the hearing had been addressed to Douglas and had been sent off to the sale barn.

It purported to threaten Douglas and made reference to having her diary and that Gene will lose her ranch and that Douglas should keep his mouth shut or he could wind up sleeping with the others. Yeah. So what the fuck is this about? Okay. Now, another letter sent to Bowers in 2011 in an envelope with writing similar to the one in which the diary pages were sent to Oldson containing a handwritten note. Quote, Kate, they don't know I made copies.

The note appears to be in the same distinctive handwriting as the mailing envelopes and diary inscription. An attached map in what appears to be the same handwriting is written on the back of a 2010 correspondence to Bacchus from her optometrist. The map refers to a gun. So they just use the paper. They use the back of the paper. The map refers to a gun, Bacchus and quote, it says, burn this when done in all

capital letters. A typed letter from Marie to Jorge and contained in the same envelope referred to the directions on the map for the pickup point for a rifle. It also also states this is between Jean and Kate for her dog. Okay. So yeah, it's basically, their defenses are the prosecution saying none of this can be kept as real. But the defense is saying a lot of these entries are corroborated by real events, including the kidnappings of those three fucking women that they named by name in there. They also pointed out that neighbors who were mentioned in the diary were actual Bacchus' neighbors. The diary also described cattle escaping and wandering into the neighbor's property, and

Bacchus confirmed in her deposition that sometimes that occurred. The diary indicated that Bacchus and Wetzel Bacchus preferred Hereford cows and that they had horses and that Bacchus also confirmed those things to be true. One diary entry states, Friday we go to SD, South Dakota, to look for our new guest. We can have three guests stay in there. We have three sets of the shackles but can make more and back is set in her deposition that they sometimes went to South Dakota to buy bulls now so shackles are for the bulls I don't know now in the I don't

know why you'd shackle a bull that's weird so in some time I don't know farming that are ranching for the ride home, I don't know, farming that or ranching. Is it for the ride home maybe? I don't know. So September 18th, 1989, the diary states that Wetzel, born in January 1910, had died. Defense counsel points out that these dates of Wetzel's birth and death are correct, meaning her husband. So thereafter, a diary entry states, what to do with Kathy now, then describes

that Kathy ran away and will not come back, and that quote, I hit her with a pickup and will haul her to someplace else as they are looking for her. But she was knifed, so. That's, yeah. The defense counsel emphasized that the blunt trauma found on the remains could be consistent

with being struck by a vehicle, but then who cut her up? Now they're going to let, so that diary is not allowed into court. They're saying they don't have enough evidence of authenticity, even though they're a bunch of statements. They do let Olson's diary in though. Yeah, for sure. His prison diary. They just, they definitely, they, you know, take, they excerpt it a little bit.

They definitely block some stuff out here. So the court determined that one of them has reasonable inference that Olson had sexual contact with Beard the night of her disappearance. And also they let them in to disprove an exculpatory statement made by Olson that he did not have sex until he was married and that he did not want to have sex with, or that he did not have sex with Beard.

They're saying your diary says the opposite. So that's why it's there to impeach him as a liar. That's why they let it in. They do want, they said no creepy fetish reference. So they said that we are unconvinced by Olson's characterization as character evidence of a creepy stomach fetish. Is that creepy? Apparently that's the way they put it.

That's in quotes. So that's the way it was put here. To begin with, Olson's perspective on this seems clouded by a plethora of evidence and the theory of the prosecution that was never presented to the jury. Although the state sought to introduce evidence that Olson had a fetish that involved cutting the abdomen area and that Cathy's abdomen had been cut in the course of her murder, because that's all the stabbing took place that went to her back, it was not allowed to do so. Such evidence, had it been presented, would have portrayed Olson's midriff affinity in a darker light.

Midriff affinity, that's from a court document, that's great. But the only evidence presented to the jury even remotely touching upon Oldson's sexual preferences was the first sentence of exhibit 270, love that gut, tummy, belly, abdomen, stomach, midriff, middle, torso, et cetera. The jury was presented with absolutely no evidence that such an

affinity for the midriff area was connected with violence or that Kathy's murder involved her midriff area. Wow. Reference to a female body part simply clarified the sexual nature of other sentences. This illustrated that the experiences quote-unquote Olson referred to throughout the excerpt were sexual experiences either real or imagined. And even defense counsel noted, you can't understand what this means without seeing the stomach issues

and talking about the sexual interests. You have to talk about what dude's into. Yeah. So they said, if the defense was particularly concerned about references to the midriff area, it could have sought a compromise whereby that a sentence was stricken and substituted with a more general explanation of context.

I like stomachs. He loves them. He said it. Instead, defense counsel pursued a scorched earth policy saying we will not allow defendants to gain advantage on appeal by failing to pursue strategies to minimize prejudice. So basically if his lawyer just didn't follow that, then we're not going to allow him to

get off on that later. So they said that the logical relevancy of Olson's affinity toward midriffs did not depend on propensity reasoning. And it's hard to imagine how the jury could derive through propensity reasoning that because Olson liked women's midriffs, he killed Kathy Beard. Yeah, those two things don't go together, but the way he did it really goes together. I mean, the sweater had the belly cut out.

That's fucking crazy. He made a fucking viewing window. Somebody did. So- Gave a convertible. His defense, okay, is you have no evidence against me whatsoever. And they really don't. They have no physical evidence. Yeah. No physical evidence was found linking him to Kathy, despite several searches of everywhere he's ever been. Wow. They said without stating that Oldson was incarcerated at the time, meaning for something

else when it happened, the defense emphasized that when law enforcement executed the search warrant based on his journal entries, Oldson was quote, more or less quarantined and had no access to the house or the grounds for the trucks or the trucks for a nine month period. Yeah. Furthermore, during this time the search warrants were sought and executed, he had limited supervised communication with the house's inhabitants. They also pointed out that Olson indicated in his diary that he knew law enforcement

was reading it. So they're like, why would he tell on himself? He knew, he wrote in the thing, he knows they're reading this. His ex-wife Minnie testifies, for him, by the way, for the defense. Really? She testifies that there was nothing out of the ordinary in the way Olson drove out to the site where the remains were found,

even though the friend said he was nervous and doing sign language. Drove him fast, yeah. She said also that she didn't think that John would have been proficient enough in sign language to carry on a conversation with her at the time. She also denied that Oldson ever threatened to do with her what he had done with Beard,

like a witness said in the bar. You'll get it too, right. She also said that he never made any incriminating statements to her concerning Kathy and testified that Barbara Dasher had a reputation in the community for being untruthful. She's a liar? She's gonna testify. Well, not only is she a liar,

the main defense evidence is, and this is their case, quote, Kathy's a whore is their case. They literally say that at one point. So they said that the defense adduced evidence that it was common for Kathy to leave the bar with different men on a nightly basis. That doesn't mean, yeah. The defense then presented other likely suspects, whichly basis. That doesn't mean, yeah. The defense then presented other likely suspects, which is true. That's the first people you look at. Who is she had sex with?

One is a former Ord resident named Michael Hawley, who by this time is deceased. Hawley carried in his wallet a picture, quote, a picture from a dirty magazine of a woman who looked like beard Oh, so what I was a dark haired woman of the dirty picture who fucking cares He said he did not like beard and described her as a thief and a hustler and He stated that she had knocked off a friend of his which is not a sexual thing that means Told on her on him for a crime. Ratted her out. Ratted him out.

Ratted him out. So that's this guy. So that's motivation, they're saying. Hawley did not have an alibi for the night of the disappearance, and one witness, a former org resident who is also deceased by now, reported to police that Hawley had arrived at the someplace else tavern at 6.30 p.m. on the night of Beard's disappearance and saw Kathy talking to Howley. Now this witness left at 645. They said that Howley drove a maroon with white top Pontiac Grand Prix

with 56 county plates. All right yeah that's what I'm. Now the girlfriend, Hopkins girlfriend testifies also for the defense. Hopkins is the job site supervisor of the guy who said we skinned her. Together he left behind. Yeah. And she says, describes that him sobbing and what he was told and that she and Hopkins drove to the job site and found a missing bag of lime. Now Jerome, remember Jerome Wachowack or whatever his name was there?

Jerome, the defense counsel, requested to declare him unavailable and utilize only his prior statements made to the police in 1989. Which was that he saw Kathy talking with a man with a red beard and other common-looking guys with black beards Quote unquote the man was story can't be corroborated exactly the man with the red beard had a ponytail and a knife hanging on his side What this Jerome remembers that old son and beard were also talking and he saw old son and beard go out the back alley to

The restroom the bearded men had left the someplace else tavern just before that. Jerome looked out in the alley, saw a blue, but not dark blue truck with 88 county license plates. The same men he saw Beard talking to in the bar were in the pickup. He noted, he said that he saw Oldson get into a truck with Beard and the other men. So now, now this guy's saying, I saw him get, both of them get into a truck with other people. Now there's four fucking, five. A red haired guy, two common guys,

Olson and her, five people in a truck now. That alley is full. Yeah, so the defense confronted Jerome with his statement from 89, where he told law enforcement that he saw Olson walk away and that Olson did not get into the truck with Beard and the other men and he said, I don't know why I said that. Well, if you're a defense attorney, you go to give me a lot of reasonable doubt. That's why you said it, stupid.

Son of a bitch. He also said that he doesn't remember the 1989 interview and that his memory, this is a wild statement to make. it's 22, 23 years later. He said his memory of May 31st, 1989 was better now than it was on June 2nd, 1989. Is that right? That is the most scientifically impossible fucking statement ever made ever. See I was real drunk for all that that time and now you're coming back your memories the least reliable thing that you have by the way The least reliable and just because you're confident you remember something doesn't mean you remember it Just means your brain is filling in spots and blanks and this is much worse now

Over over 40 if 30 years you're not gonna remember anything. Yeah, fuck no. After drinking one night 30 years ago, now I remember. Back then I didn't. Barbara Dasher testifies that both Olson and Olson's father had threatened her in order to prevent her from reporting Olson's comments made concerning Kathy. When Barbara Dasher testified that Olson's father had threatened her, the defense moved for a mistrial. The defense argued that the fact that Dasher was mentioning the threat by Olsen's father for the first time at trial indicated her credibility was questionable.

So you can't trust her at all. The defense argued that it was not in a position to attack Dasher's credibility the way it fully merited because of legal issues. Now, the defense elaborated outside the presence of the jury that according to past statements Dasher had heard Olson also threaten his sister. The defense claimed that Dasher was making things up and the defense was unable to properly cross-examine Dasher without presenting prior bad acts to the jury concerning Olson and his relationship with his sister. Okay, which that's what's he doing with sister?

The defense also noted that Barbara Dasher had previously made allegations against Oldson that were never pursued by law enforcement or corroborated, but it did not want to present those accusations to the jury. Let's not bring it up now. The court overruled the motion for mistrial. And when Barbara Dasher continued to testify that she did not report Olson's statement to law enforcement right away because she did not think Olson was guilty, so I kept it to myself, the defense again moved for

a mistrial, arguing that the line of questioning was walking down a path or expecting her to say, I didn't say it because I was scared of him, which are previous bad act issues where you can't come in. So another mistrial motion was overruled and basically nothing else came out. She was a useless witness is what it came out. A lot of arguing for nothing. Seems like a lot of witnesses that are all useless. A lot of useless.

Now the verdict comes in here. And so let's add this up. The evidence they have is. Let's count up that. Because he made it sound like there was some DNA somewhere. Yeah, they said new evidence. And the only new evidence was actually exculpatory. It's the sex diaries. So otherwise they have the same exact case they had in 1992 where they didn't pursue it. I thought maybe they found like a jizz rag buried that he wiped his dick off or something. No, no.

That's what I figured too, something. And also even when they asked him after they found the body and they asked him about that, he goes, yeah, I've been out there before. I grew up around here. I know where it is. Yeah. But I was partying there five, six years ago. I didn't fucking bury her there.

But a guy who was a teenager six years before that or five years before that would have definitely known that area. For sure. So this goes to the jury. If you're the jury, you go, what are we even arguing about? or six years before that or five years before that would have definitely known that area for sure So this goes to the jury if you're the jury ago, what are we even arguing about? Yeah, I don't know Well, they come to a verdict And they find him guilty of second-degree murder Based on what what here he likes tummies, that's what it's based on It's all it is.

So the second, the sentencing comes around and they sentence him to, you sir, may fuck off life in prison. Oh Jesus, Nebraska. Nebraska. So yeah, by the way, after the trial, they found that Douglas guy that they were looking for before the trial. Remember the Douglas guy? They couldn't find him at all.

So they re-interviewed him with defense counsels, private investigator, and by law enforcement. Those interviews entered into evidence in support of a motion for a new trial. They also offered a recorded conversation between Douglas and his girlfriend while Douglas was in jail. And the telephone call with his girlfriend, Douglas stated that he cannot tell law enforcement what he knows or quote, they will hurt his mother. Douglas said that he knew Bacchus had a diary, this is a diary guy, and he knew where she buried it and why it did not burn in a fire on her property.

That's why when her property burned down, the diary was... Because they said, how is the diary not burning the fire? And he said, I knew where she buried it. He said he definitely didn't write the diary himself. He also made reference to how these people have told me everything what to write and what to do, but that does not seem from the context that he was referring to the diary. In the interviews with law enforcement and with defense counsels, private investigator, he denied sending the diary pages or writing the diary. He was confronted with the fact that his DNA was found on the envelope. The

pages were mailed in. He explained that he had envelopes and stamps in his backpack. He speculated that when he was staying at a homeless shelter, the backpack was stolen. Wow, that'd be a huge coincidence. He also made oblique references to Bacchus' having once told him that she had young girls living with her on the ranch in the past to help with washing and cooking. And Douglas also talked about hauling scrap metal out of a wood shanty built into a hill. He denied any knowledge of kidnappings at the ranch though. In the interview here, Douglas referred to having just passed a mental evaluation in Norfolk,

and he explained that he had most recently been living at a homeless shelter in Omaha and spent most of his days at the library looking on the internet at the local news. shelter in Omaha and spent most of his days at the library looking on the internet at the local news. Wow. He explained that he previously worked odd jobs for Bacchus and said that Bacchus owed him money. He described that one day three men who said they worked for Bacchus threatened him and told him to forget that he had ever seen them. He thought that Bacchus and these men were moving drugs. It's 88 year old ladies moving drugs. Douglas explained that sometime after that

he woke up in the hospital with no recollection of why he was there. I think this guy might be loopy a bit. Certainly got it together. Law enforcement accused Douglas of writing the diary, indicating it appeared to be his handwriting in the diary, and he did not specifically deny the handwriting was his, but claimed that he had never seen the diary pages

or the envelope in which they were mailed. Wow. He says that Bacchus owed him over $30,000 for work that he'd done here. And yeah, people have fucking tried to strong arm him and everything else. He also says that he did not recognize the diary pages that the defense counsel showed him at the hearing. He also testified that he did not recognize the handwriting pages that the defense counsel showed him at the hearing. He also testified that he did not recognize the handwriting in the diary pages as Bacchus's, although he said it's similar.

He also stated that there were balloons in a spot on the ranch where Bacchus told him one morning of where one of her cutting horses was buried. Douglas also reiterated that he had torn apart a structure built into the hill on the ranch and had found heavy chains and 50 gallon barrels that were inside the structure. He also saw two bed frames in the structure. So he's saying this is- Sounds like where they store shit.

Yeah, he was saying that's where they store women and the beds would attain there. He reiterated that Bacchus once told him that girls have been living on the ranch to help with chores. He also said one day he opened a wood shell box that Bacchus carries around with her and in the box were quote, napkins and stuff with writing on them including several small books. He saw a reference to Barbara and how she had to run away.

Also once when he proposed digging on the ranch to place a water line, Bacchus quote, blew up right away and told me you ain't digging nothing on my land. It sounds like there's some weird people, but I don't think they did this. That's the thing. He also brings up Antonio Rodriguez saying Rodriguez had threatened Douglas several times. Douglas described a dog that became sick after eating white powder that looked like drug stuff in a box in the back of back of his truck. It's just the cat in Madhouse now. It's going around sniffing a bunch of coke.

That's a great movie if you haven't seen it. That cat's crazy. That cat's crazy. That cat's awesome. I love John Larrick cat, he's funny. So Douglas said that Rodriguez made him take care of the dog and keep Douglas' mouth shut so that Bacchus would not get in trouble. Later Douglas purportedly found a list of names that Bacchus and Rodriguez were quote delivering stuff to.

And he was also threatened to be quiet. Now this amounts to nothing in a motion for a new trial. Yeah, because it doesn't do anything for him. No, it doesn't really help much. And it's very muddy. It's all muddy. Now on appeal, he appeals and basically argued that the state waited and re-interviewed witnesses until their memories improved to the advantage of the state, he said, and basically he generally asserts that evolving town gossip turned against him as the

subsequent assault conviction became known, and that also affected witnesses' memories once they thought of him as more guilty, which is extremely possible, by the way, when we're talking. If for 30 years everyone's been talking about how that guy definitely killed that lady, and then they bring you on the stand and you're like, yeah, you think in your head he definitely killed her. Well, there's that, but there's also the, her sweater has a convertible top cut in it. And he loves the belly. He loves the guts.

Yeah. I'm talking just legal action, like convictive, convicting, conviction-worthy bullshit here. He also says lack of evidence, that's the main one that I would point, I would really concentrate on. Lack of evidence in his conviction are, the only evidence are his own statements and the fact that he was last seen leaving someplace else, his tavern with her. He argues, given the plethora of other suspects, the lack of physical evidence and the implausibility of the state's scant theory, this conviction

cannot stand. That's the other thing too. It is they get in the car, nine minutes out there, carves her up fucking incredibly tight window beats her to death, carves her up, gets off on looking at her stomach and doing all that shit, gets back in the truck, drives fucking home, gets out, cleans himself up, hides the clothes, takes a full fucking bath to wash up, up, up, up, gets out. A bath, not a shower. You can take a shower in three minutes. You can't take a bath in three minutes. It takes ten minutes to fill the tub. Just to fill it. That's exactly, totally right. Nailed it. Just to fill the fucking tub. And then you're gonna get in, then you're gonna wash off, then you gotta collect your laundry, go

out to the... it's a tough one. It's got... it would be tight that window. Very tight window. Very tight window. They said we have reviewed at trial... the evidence submitted at trial and find it sufficient to support the verdict. While there's no physical or eyewitness evidence directly linking him to the crime, circumstantial evidence is not inherently less probative than direct evidence, and that's in the legal system. Evidence is evidence, if allowed in.

But jurors, they're told not to weigh it differently, but if you're a human being with a brain, you have to. Yeah, but also, she was buried, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's that's ridiculous So they say it stands there is a pretty good Dissension on this this guy writes a fucking Justice William Connolly writes a really long dissension to this saying you're You're ignoring everything to just say he's guilty like you're obviously trying to make this preferable And you know, you're palatable the prosecution because preferable and palatable to the prosecution

because there's no fucking evidence whatsoever. You're closing a case on purpose to get that pesky one out of there. Yeah, exactly, and you think you can get him because he looks like an asshole because of all his priors and everything else. And the belly thing. And the belly thing, that's so fucking weird.

So there you go, that is Ordon, Nebraska, and we don't know if we solved it or not. Who the fuck? It seems like he probably did it, but probably, but not if I'm on a jury, Peterson thing. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm on a jury, I'm well, Scott Peterson, there was way more evidence than this for Scott Peterson. Yeah. There's no, there's no pizza in the fridge. There's no pizza in the fridge. This guy didn't go on a fucking boat that morning in the morning that his wife happened to be thrown

off a boat. There's none of that shit. He didn't say I drove out near that area, then came back, but I didn't kill her. That's what Scott Peterson said. I went out on a boat, but I didn't dump my wife out. Someone else did that. I did say I tried to kidnap her though.

I did say I tried to kidnap her. So if you like this story or any of the other ones we tell, please, it helps so much if you give us a review on whatever app you're listening on. I can't tell you why, but it does. It really helps out the weird algorithm. So check it all out. Please do that. Say something nice. Give us five stars. Head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. Number one, September 20th. We are in Minneapolis. It's going to be our biggest show ever. The State Theater. It's gorgeous. Be a part of the biggest shut up and give me murder that anyone's ever fucking heard. I know. And it's

been two years. I love that place too. I love Minneapolis. So we can't wait. We'll be in Milwaukee the next night and there's going to be a couple. We have some holds and comps that we're releasing. So there's going to be a couple more tickets available for that. So keep your, keep your ear to the ground on that one. Also this week coming out is tickets for the virtual live show. Oh baby, Halloween virtual live show. We can't fucking wait. Crazy murder, all the pictures, lots of jokes and costumes and all that. And we figured out the update, the issue with Apple like that happened last time.

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and your stupid opinions. And then you also need Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports gives you all, everything you could want. All the bonus material you could want, all the bonus material you could possibly desire, hundreds of back episodes, new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder, you get it all

for the low, low price of $5 a month. We can't, it can't be beat, I'll tell you that. So this week, which you're gonna get, we're gonna talk about the Duke Lacrosse scandal, number one, nothing to do with lacrosse, everything to do with frat parties and strippers and false accusations And I do weird stuff just terrible idea then for small-town murder We're gonna talk about another guy that fucked around near a college and guy

I really don't like Brian Coburger and his DNA denying smirking stupid face, and I want to talk about him I get that he hasn't been found guilty yet and that that and that's fine. But I can say he looks like an asshole. I don't give a shit. So we're going to talk about it. We can hate him. He's adjudicated a dickhead already. Yep.

By us. Where's my gavel? There you go. Adjudicated a cocksucker. There he is. In the court of small town murder, he's a dickhead. So that is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show Just right fucking now Jimmy Hemi with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people who would never

Bury us in a shallow grave on a roadside gully hit me with them now this week's executive producer is Jaylin Petrie Thank you, Jaylin. Thank you Amazing. Yeah, wonderful other producers this week are Liz Vasquez Peyton Meadows Gary Howard Emma Reagan Thank you, Emma. Thank you guys thank you Emma, Ethan Preston. Thank you guys, all of you. Ethan Preston quit vaping. I don't know how hard that is, but I quit smoking and if it's that hard, good for you Ethan.

It's all nicotine. Yeah, and who the fuck knows what else is in a vape. That's crazy. You're addicted to some heavy metals of some weird kind. I can't imagine. I'm so glad that I came up with just cigarettes. Yeah, right. Janice Hill continuing Jody Pettigrew. Pettingill. Pettingill. Yeah. Kyle Gothorpe. Jesus. Brendan with no last name. Bree 94. Sean Gilbert. Mallory Mottman. Hannah DeOtt.

Hannah DeOtt. DeOtt. Yeah, DeOtt. All right. Danielle. Danielle Hurst. Amanda Sloan. Tina Phillips. Madison Schoonerman.

Sarah Clinton. Christie with no last name. Guillermo Ramirez. Casey Pakula. Tanya B. Chris Palmier. Leslie Donovan. Henry Wills.

Wells. Fucking shit. Gianna with no last name. Kiki with know last name. Kiki would know last name. Shannon Roeder. Patrick Burns. Oh, Tad, Tad, Tad, T-A-D-G-H,

how the fuck do you pronounce that? Tad? Is that Todd? Beats the fuck out of me. You're the name guy, I don't know. O'Leary? You never have any answers when I hit you with a town name.

You're always like, I don't know. I don't fucking know either. Johnny O, Lillian Lucy, Mackenzie Ortiz, Nicole Paulson. Oh boy, Tercilin. T-R-C-I-L-I-N. What is that? Wow. Tercilin.

Is that Tercilin that solves something else? I don't know. Maybe. Tercilin? Is that a real name? Fucking shit. Kelsey Kelly, Collin Kuhn, Marcus Piccola, Jen Bruce, Donna Johnson, Erica Tremblay, Amy Irneesey, Jason Warner, Chris Rutt. I mean, I mean mine. Okay. All right. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, McGee I know that old boobs it's a it's I'm sure it's or it's a really cool check

There's no way it's a cool. What's happening? over here He likes boobs, I think maybe it is Ezekiel a ho Cinderella Barbie 72 Emily Bennett Briana Brianna lesbian what is it might be a lesbian? Oh Boobs McGee. Yeah, it's a chick, but she also loves boobs. It's both. I still think it's a dude. I do too.

Emily Bennett, Brianna Brown, Pickles would know last name, Abigail Boesler, Sarah Nowicki, Janet Clark, Jessica Page, Kelly Brock, not LeBrock, just Brock, Ashley Libby, Max would know last name, Gabriel Densley, Colin Kerfoot, Stacey Rose, Trevor Jones, Lindy Lendl, Cy Witko, Elizabeth Ludwig, Giselle De Silva Martins, Ashton with no last name, Tabitha Santoni, Emily Rounds, Norma DiMaggio, Lisa Chamberlain, Andrew Brunel, Raheem with no last name, Dan Cloppel, Sharon,

nope, that's Shannon Sellers, Tara O, Christian Gore, Brianna, nope, that's Brittany, Brandon, Isaiah Powers, Kristi Ayers, Lisa Culpepper, Lars Hollander, Erica Martinez Rodriguez, Simp Tam, I guess that's a name, Andrea Champ, nope, that's just Camp. I guess that's just Camp. Yes, that's a name. Sarah DiGiovanna, Jessica O'Dell, Jordan Family Six, not the fifth one. Robin, with no last name, Amy B. Ryan Lindahl, Jordan Downs, Kristen, no, it's Stewart. Stewart Nisley, why did I say, all right.

Suzanne Murphy, Tanya Hill, Leona Corbett, Jamie Wismaglo, all right. I don't know. Lilithan. I don't know. Lilithan and Bridget with no last name. Taurus Albert, Share Strong Local Weedia. She's a local weed gal, I guess.

Share Strong. Or Share Strong Local Weed. Share your strong weed with others. Just maybe a lady named Cher. The Leasacks, Caitlyn Hallam, David Brainy, Stacey Bissell, oh, the fucking vacuum fortune. Jordan Woods, Chris C., Ashley with no last name, Rebecca Serena, Herbert Amaya, Janet, nope,

yeah, that is Janet Anderson, Rachel with no last name, Trudy Neshida, Jecica Tower, okay. Yeah. It may be Jessica, Tutsisa, that's Jecica, right? I don't know. That's what I would, sounds like it. Yeah, Shawna with no last name, Amanda Lillian, Hope Grattix, Ulysses Moore, Nicole Hess, Emma Patrick,

Amy Ferrick, Caradade, Caradotti, Wilson, M, this show brought to you by the letter M. Jennifer Bedford, Garrett Catalana, Ashley Alexander, Linnea Kelly, I don't know, Joseph Kilpatrick, Olivia Effen. This show also brought you by the letter E. Christine Capp, Matthew Vuk, Chance Parks, Kayla Romani, Romany, Daniel Comer, also Daniel Blower. He combs her and also blows her. Come and blow you, baby. Light them up. The old comb and blow. Get after it, Daniel. Rena, Reina, Rihanna, Sharon with no last name, Eric Louder's, Melissa

Rush. Oh, and Melissa Rush. It's Eric Louder's and Melissa Rush. Two different people. Oh, together. Same patron. Kara Foxley, MoneyWealth12 123. That's where I get all my money information. Noxa with no last name. Yeah, it's everywhere. Ryan Christophic, Lionheart091, Joy Coy, that's a fun name. Tom Kohler, Val with no last name. Lorraine Candelario, Terry Barnes, Tammy Becker, Debbie Zasso, Sean, nope that's Sarah. Sarah Burroughs, not Sean Burroughs, it's definitely Sarah Burroughs and I'm a terrible

reader, but I love every patron. Not the old third baseman. Thank you everybody so much. Fuck you're amazing. Thank you for what you do for us. Thank you for supporting the show and being honestly the fucking foundation of the show. There could be a fancy window or a thing on top. You're the fucking foundation

and this show would fall in without you. By far. You're the best, honestly. Thank you so much. If you wanna follow either of us on social media, shutupandgivemurder.com is a drop down menu that's just gorgeous and you're gonna love it. So check that out.

Come see, it's right there, beautiful. Keep coming back each and every week. See you for Express on Friday. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.