Small Town Murder - #55 - The Neighborhood Cannibal in South Kingstown, Rhode Island

Episode Date: January 31, 2018

This week, in the historic town of South Kingstown, Rhode Island, we check out a disappearance, that led to a giant, nationwide manhunt, only for a grisly discovery to be found, right out in the open, and under everyone's noses. A vicious murder is just the beginning of this twisted tale!! Along the way, we find out what a Swamp Yankee is, how many thousand people can miss something incredibly obvious, and just how horrible a person do you have to be for people to want vigilante retribution against you!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the historic town of South Kingstown, Rhode Island, where a disappearance causes a massive nationwide search only to make a grisly discovery right under their

noses. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed. Yay, indeed, Jimmy. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week on Small Town Murder. We are excited, as usual,

as should you be. You should be excited, too, because you have murder coming your way. That's real. You got murder, mister, and it's coming for you. Before we get started, crimeinsports.threadless.com is where you can go for all of your small-town murder and crime and sports merchandise needs, whether it be shirts, baby onesies that say horrible things on them. What the fuck? People send us pictures of their babies wearing it. I can't get enough. Lauren, thank you for that today.

Oh, we love that so much. That's the best. Also, live shows. You can take those shirts, wear them to live shows like Boston on February 18th at Laugh Boston at 1 p.m. And you better hurry. You better hurry because those tickets are selling Boston at 1 p.m. And you better hurry. You better hurry because those tickets are selling. The 7 p.m. Small Town Murder Show is already sold out.

So get those 1 p.m. tickets and get those 4 p.m. crime and sports tickets, too, because that's going to be a crazy wild show. Also, Detroit with Dan Cummins, February 16th. I believe that's sold out. So we're going to go ahead and take that off the board. Right. Well, the stand-up show is, but the podcast still has a few tickets left.

You better get those. And March 25th, Phoenix, Arizona. Yes. Get here. Stand up live for a live small-town murder podcast. And we've heard people say, like, oh, is it stand-up? It's a podcast. It's a podcast.

It's what you're listening to now with us in the room with you. That's all it is. That's it. There's visuals mixed in. Right. We'll do some stuff. It'll be a lot of fun. Fuck yes.

But it's not stand-up. So come out and see that. And whiskey. Yes, whiskey. And Jimmy will be drunk, I'm sure. That's going to happen. That'll happen. That's a fact.

So yes, do all of that. Thank you guys so much for all of your tickets that you've bought so far. We are going to announce a ton of dates next week. Yes. We're going to announce a bunch. We have tons of different cities. We're looking at you, East Coast, Philly, New York, West Coast, Portland, Bay Area, LA. We got all these.

We're coming everywhere. It's going to be nuts. Wait for that. We're coming everywhere. All over the place. I will leave that alone. It's going to be gross. We're going to need a cleaning crew when we're done in here, man.

All over the country. We're going to come all over the country. You know it. All right. Moving forward. Before all that, thank you guys. Thank you come all over the country. You know it. Alright, moving forward. So before all that, thank you guys. Thank you guys so much for your iTunes reviews this week.

You guys killed it again on the iTunes reviews. That's true. You do it every week and we cannot thank you enough. You guys really took James for his word and you said, a bonus app? Yes. We will for sure do that. Did you see how many? Yeah, we got a lot this week. We're almost there already.

So 10,000. When we get to 10,000, we will do a bonus episode. Maybe not the week we hit 10,000 because it might be when we're doing live shows. But I owe you a bonus episode. I'll do it within a month of this happening. There you go. Whenever I have time that it won't completely kill me or alienate me from my children. Oh, we're almost there.

Almost there. Thank you guys, though, for those. If you haven't done that yet, get on iTunes, please. Five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. It's not for our ego. It's for iTunes and their funky algorithm and all that stuff. It's on the business end.

Helps us a ton. Another thing, the superstars, people who have done even more. Holy shit. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. You can make donations there. We're going to give a long list of shout-outs later for awesome people that have done that. Also, one-time donations. You can go to PayPal and use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com.

That's it. We're so appreciative of every dime we get. Honestly, guys, we're blown away by it. We don't even know what to do about it. It's ridiculous. As you'll hear at the end of the show when we say, when we thank everybody so from the bottom of our hearts. And also, this week,

if you're listening on Thursday when this comes out, it will be tomorrow. That Friday of the week this comes out. P.S. I hate this movie. Coming back out. Myself, my wife Sarah Hunt. Tomorrow. Tomorrow, exactly. We make fun of bad romantic comedies and ones you might think are good. It doesn't matter.

I'm very angry throughout the whole process. It's good. And my wife's hilarious, too. Terrific. She's very organized and goes through the movie without, you know, she keeps me on track from going crazy. Because I'm not the organized one like on this one. Right. But never mind all of that.

Yeah. We have to do the disclaimer. We have to. Guys, everyone, people, people of Earth, this is a comedy podcast, everybody. Who does that, people of Earth? I think Yoko Ono does that. Yes, that's the thing. Well, that's what I'm addressing. I want to address all six billion

people. As if six billion people, seven billion, whatever it is, would listen to Yoko Ono. I remember Conan O'Brien addressing a statement, people of Earth, one time, and it's like, yes, everyone needs to hear this information. Forward this to everyone. Comedy podcast, this is.

Information's real. Research is real. Trust me. All real cases, real facts, real things. But we're comedians. We're stand-up comics. So we're going to make jokes. We make jokes at the expense of small towns, bumbling police forces, murderers who are idiots and deserve to be made fun of.

That's it. We say it all the time. We and deserve to be made fun of. That's it. We say it all the time. We go, it's not that bad. It's true. We don't make the disclaimer because we say horrible things. We make the disclaimer because some people think that true crime and comedy should never mix, ever. And they have strong opinions about what gets to be joked about.

We like to get them within the first five minutes of the show and kick their asses right out the door. Take a hike. We don't need you. Leave, fuckface. Yeah, you're not going to enjoy it anyway. It's not you. It's not me. It's whatever it is. But we try. We go out of our way to not make

jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims' families. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. We assure you of that. You're a child at the adult party. Get out of here. That's it. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Laugh a little bit. Have a good time. These things, it's not like we went out and killed people and made jokes about them.

These things happened already. We're just telling a story. And that story is ready right now. Are you ready? We're ready. We're ready for you to say, shut up and give me murder. Because it's time. God damn it.

Let's go. Let's take a trip. Okay. We're leaving Canada. Got your passport. Heading back down to the States. Boy, did I get a lot of corrections this week from those nice people. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Those nice people. They are so nice that they'll fucking tell you when you're wrong. Yes. That's true. Yes. Mainly that. I got a couple of them saying, it's funny that you're talking shit about the Canadian penal system coming from Americans.

It's like, I believe we spent, I don't know, 50 episodes talking shit about our penal system. Your turn, fucker. Grab yourself a bowl of poutine and sit down and get ready for a fucking talking to, because it's going to happen. Sorry. Grab one of those donuts from Horton's and let's have a chat.

Not my fault, goddammit. So let's do this, and we will talk lots of shit about our legal system in this one. Let's head to Rhode Island. All right. Shall we? Number 50. No, this is 49.

Hawaii, you're last. Sorry, fucker, but you're barely a state. You're so far out there, I don't even care. You know what I mean? You're almost Japan. We can't even see you out there so far. Your time zone is all to yourself. It's ridiculous. You're the last one. Six hours from L.A. on a fucking

plane. Sorry, guys. Sorry. Pretty and nice and all that, but we're going to stay in Rhode Island. Enjoy your beaches, fuckers. Yeah, Rhode Island's one of the, you know, that's an old school state, not one of these brand new ones

like Hawaii here. This is an original. An original. This is South Kingstown, Rhode Island, and it's Kingstown, not Kingston. It's Kingstown, trust me.

There's a W. I watch local, yes, but still sometimes they'll pronounce that shit like that, but not here, goddammit. So don't give me any pronunciations. You can call your local news team and blame them because that's where I got my pronunciation. All right. Yes, but still sometimes they'll pronounce that shit like that, but not here, goddammit. So don't give me any pronunciations.

You can call your local news team and blame them because that's where I got my pronunciation. All right. South Kingstown, Rhode Island. It's in the south central part of this tiny, tiny-ass state, which is basically the size of your neighborhood, this state. It's the smallest of the 50. It's so silly. The whole thing is silly. And this is at the very, very bottom here, very southern part.

Washington County it's in, which wasn't always what I was thinking. How do they have more than one county? They should just have Rhode Island County. That should be it. Done. Zip code 02881. Area code 401. This actually, it's pretty crazy because this town has actually got a lot of land area to it.

It's 80 square miles. Holy shit. A lot of it used to be farms, so that's kind of where that comes from. It's big got a lot of land area to it. It's 80 square miles. Holy shit. A lot of it used to be farms, so that's kind of where that comes from. It's big plots and everything. What else is in the state? Well, 80 square miles, 57 of it's land and the rest is water. Got it.

Obviously, it's Rhode Island. But the whole state is only 1,214 square miles. See, that's crazy. The whole state. This town takes up a tenth of it. The whole state is 37 miles wide and 48 miles long. It's like the size of Metropolitan Phoenix, basically. That's the whole state.

It's insane, honestly. And if you've ever driven through Rhode Island, it doesn't take long at all. You're just there. You blink and you miss it. How did they not get taken over by another state, though? Man, tough sons of bitches over there in Rhode Island, as we'll talk about. Are they between New York and Massachusetts? No.

They're south of that. They're kind of in their own little pocket. Oh, they're south of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're south of all that. No motto for this town. No motto for the town. No motto for the county.

No motto for shit. They don't want, they're not, they knew what we were coming, I think, is what it is. They're too small for that shit. We don't want to be made fun of. We're just not going to give a motto. Sorry. That's just lazy. You've had more time than most everybody to have a motto.

You've had since the 1600s to come up with something. Motherfuckers, figure it out. Jesus, you lazy bastards. When it was first settled, the earliest, earliest settlements, it was Narragansett County is what it was named after. It was named after an Algonquin tribe that was around there. They lived near there. What was it? The Narragansett County they called it.

Oh, Narragansett. Okay. Narragansett. I thought you said Narragan. No. I was like, oh, they named it. Narragan. Narragan coming around here in this shithole.

Narragan. I figured the natives named it. I can't pronounce it. Breeze. Breeze. Breeze. I can't pronounce it. I figured the natives named it. I can't pronounce it. Breeze. Breeze. Breeze. See? Oh, man.

First people to come here, or first, you know, obviously the Algonquin tribe was here first, obviously. Southern Rhode Island, the first guy who bought a parcel of land from the natives was a guy named Roger Williams. Okay. He established a trading post in Wickford in 1637. So this is some old school shit. No kidding. This is as old as far as we've gone back in time.

For sure. Besides when we did the British episode. Yeah. We did England. And then in the fourth week of November, he had the first cornucopia in Turkey with these people. And then he murdered them all. Right. He did. He did.

He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. And then he murdered them all.

Right. So 1640, a guy named Roger Smith built his trading post. And he was like, yeah, you want a trading post? I'll give you a trading post. I'll put up my trading post. Right. Competition, bitch. And they had like signs outside.

And one said, you know, over 4,000 furs sold. And the other one said over this many things trapped. Right. And they had like a Burger King, McDonald's competition going on. And all of a sudden you've got capitalism. They created it. They created it. These two right here. Smith's trading post was called Smith's Castle and it was just north

of Wickford. Also Smith had a big plantation and that was kind of like a, I don't know, people like gathered there at the plantation. People would like they'd do kind of religious services there. They'd hold like political town meetings there. Social shit. Yeah.

Let's go hang out in this guy's barn. Sounds wonderful. Yeah. That's the whole town. Top politics. And that's that they all agreed. This is the best place for us to meet in the whole. This is the best we have right here. That guy's plantation. Yeah. Did the other did the other trading post guy get pissed about this? I'm sure he did. You know

he was sitting over there and he's like, fuck, no one comes to my fucking house. Why does no one come to my house? They all go to his house. What's up with that? What does he have? He has a better wig? Is that what it is? Yeah, is that what it is? He's got a real inferiority complex. You know he does have a real inferiority. He's got a real Pepsi

complex. You know what I mean? I'm the choice of a new generation. Come to my floor. I need a black guy playing the piano as my spokesperson. Oh, boy. Well, back then, if he had a black guy playing the piano, he would have owned him. So we don't need a black guy playing the piano. Let's keep him out of here.

Honestly, there were slaves back in Rhode Island back then, even, in the North. You don't think about it. But until the 1800s, yeah, they were there. There was, of course, disputed borders because there always is with Narragansett County. Rhode Island, Connecticut, Massachusetts were all fighting over little chunks of this and that. I love that. Back then, they'd agreed on shit, and they would settle it with bum-rushing a town office with guns and stealing the records. I love it, man. Now, the Narragassetts, these people in the county, they pledged their loyalty to King Charles back then.

It was known as the King's Province. In 1664, a royal commission under Charles II stepped in to adjudicate conflicting claims of where borders were and what things were called. And he's going to come in and lay down the law, God damn it. Now, the settlements all around there were named to kind of kiss the king's ass, all of them. King Charles II here. There's Kingstown. That's what it was. There was Kingstown.

They split into north and south. There is Charlestown, obviously, Kingston, West Kingston. They're like, let's just kiss his ass. Everything is named either King or Charles. Wow. Everything around here. That's fucking, it's terrible. They got over here and they're like, let's make sure he knows that we're cool.

Yeah, yeah. We got our own place over here. We're happy, but we like you too. Right, right, right. Let's let him know that we're just seceding just because we've got more land. It's like a touring comic who calls his wife every night you know what i mean i feel like that's what it is make sure she knows he's not fucking anybody it's 10 30 and you're on the phone with her she's like okay it's good not just calls her but facetimes her and goes from the room

and she goes can i see the room yeah i'd love to show like i want to show you under the bed sweatpants on he's in for the night look in the I'd love to show. He's got like old shitty clothes. I want to show you under the bed, too. Yeah, he's got like sweatpants on. He's in for the night. Look in the closet. It's a tiny closet. Styrofoam containers, food all over the room. Good. Okay, things are going well.

Can I show you in the shower, too? Yes. I don't have whores in there. I don't have any hidden anything anywhere. Oh, man. That's great here. I know a couple comics that should be doing that. That's hysterical.

Yeah, whose wives would enjoy that a lot. And they should make them do that because we know what they're up to. Put that in his writer. Yes. Moving forward. Now, boundary disputes, though, even though the king settled some shit, they still argue. Of course. These fucking people cannot get along.

They're arguing. And if you think about it, these are, and it's the same thing with people that go west in America. They go west. These are the people who aren't satisfied with where they are. These are the people who said, no, no, no, we're going over here. They're pissy. They're malcontent.

They're not thrilled. You leave a country and you go start your own. Yeah. And when you go do that, that whole boat ride, that's a long fucking boat ride. You're thinking this shit's going to be different now. And the whole time you're like, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. And then there's a dude at the front of the boat saying he's going to do this and this and this. And they're all opposite of the shit you want.

That's the thing. And then you get to that dry land and you're like, all right, let's do this shit. And the other guy's like, no, no, motherfucker. What are you talking about? Yeah. There you go. And then next thing you know, we have war. All right, we're calling the king.

What? We just left that shit. That's stupid. Oh, man. So anyway, they changed. And how about if you're the king and you've got to take that long fucking boat ride to settle their shit? I'd be a furious king when I got there. I'd want heads.

I just floated how many fucking thousands of miles for you fucks that are arguing that left my shit? Why am I going to settle this? He didn't come here to do it. Whoa. Okay. So what do you think? He's going to soil his feet on the road. That's what I thought you said.

He came to settle it. He just settled shit. Oh, he just like wrote a letter? Yeah, they sent a thing across the ocean. And threw that shit in the ocean. Four weeks later, he got it. He thought about it for a month, scratched his ass, picked his balls, sent a thing back. So six months later, they got word from the king.

All right. Which meant nothing because it was from thousands of miles away over an ocean that it would take him months to cross. For a month ago. I just saw a king with his foot up on the bow of a boat in a fucking storm just getting pelted with ocean rain and pissed that he's got to get there and be like, fuck you guys. Who's got a problem with fine borders? And he just pulls up and they all go, oh. He settles the dispute. Now I'm going to go back to England.

Two months out of my life to say the border's here. No, no, definitely not. I don't think he's like a general manager, like a regional manager of a Staples or anything. Go check on this place. I hope he has people at the table. The king is a regional manager. He should definitely have some people to handle that. He should have somebody, an assistant, I would think.

You go over and check it out. Tell me what's going on here. All right. So they had slaves. They had plantations in southern Rhode Island. They used black slaves. They used native slaves. This is when the mid-1700s is when it kind of hit its peak.

And then after that, they kind of said, hey, let's stop doing that. Right, right. You know what I mean? You just hit him. Stop that. Yeah, let's not do that. Now, the locals here, they do some interesting shit. They break people out of jail.

Oh. They broke a guy named Samuel Casey out of jail. He was a silversmith that was, they sentenced him to death for counterfeiting coins in 1770. So the whole town came and broke him out of jail. That's nice. So that's nice. They were like, whole town came and broke him out of jail. That's nice. So that's nice. They were like, we like Samuel, and we like his coins also. We're going to use those, so fuck him.

Those fucking Mike and Ikes are too expensive anyway. Yeah. I want counterfeit coins to get extra ones. Exactly. So he's a silversmith? He just makes copies of the silver things. Probably a lot easier to counterfeit. Yeah, some iron ore or some shit. There's no little magnetic strip in it that you look up toward the light, probably. He just makes copies of the silver things. Probably a lot easier to counterfeit back then.

Some iron ore or some shit. It was a little magnetic strip in it that you'd look up toward the light probably. And it's all coinage. Back then they didn't have many bills, I imagine. And I'm sure there was too. After a while they'd get run down and you could kind of pass anything off as a coin, I'm sure. So George Washington spends the night here a few times during the Revolutionary War. Nice. If you live back east or if you've ever been back east,

you can't walk 10 feet without seeing somewhere that Washington took a shit. It's ridiculous. Everywhere you go as a sign, George Washington was here. Yes, he was everywhere. Stop already. The town I'm from. He was the president. Oh, in New York where I'm from, it's like Dutchess County,

Southern Dutchess County, every five fucking feet is one of those placards, historical placards, which are cool as shit, but half of them are the same thing. We get it. Washington was here. Move along. Keep going. Wyatt Earp's the same way out here, though. It's all like outlaws or people that were lawmen that were famous.

Same shit. They got a whole fucking town that would be wiped off the map if it wasn't for that goddamn gunfight. For one gunfight. So after the Revolutionary War, Kings County, which was this county, became known as Washington County. So we switched. Oh, yeah? King?

No, fuck that. Washington. Our guy. Put that in there. That's what they did here. And we want to make him king, by the way. They tried to try. No, no, no.

He's like, no. Listen, I left that shit. I don't want that shit. Imagine if he was like, cool. We'd have a completely different society now. I can think of a few presidents that would have done that shit. Oh, definitely here. Definitely. Yeah, so there's been a

lot of constitutional shit here. We go through history forever, but we're not going to do that. They were a big deal. They tried to block the ratification of certain parts of the Constitution when they had the Philadelphia Convention because they were just malcontents, like we said.

Most everyone else was like, fine. Rhode Island was like, no, we're going to be dicks about it. Was Rhode Island just like the outcast dicks from every other state? It's like, put the 13 fuckfaces in that shit town, and we'll call it a state. We all know it's a town. We'll call that a state. Yeah, does everyone go, are we listening to them like we're the same as us? Right.

You could fit that state in my yard. Right. Fuck them. Yeah. There's people that have farms bigger than that whole state. This is ridiculous. They have like one vote in everything, right? In the electoral college, they get one, right?

I think so. No, no. States have different amounts based on population. That's what I mean. But Rhode Island has one. One electoral vote? I think so. I think they have more than that, actually. No way. Yeah mean. But Rhode Island has one. One electoral vote? I think so. I think they have more than that, actually.

No way. Yeah. They've got like seven people. No, no. They have a good amount of people. Do they? Yeah. Way more than Wyoming.

Oh, is that right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think Wyoming has one. Yeah. Wyoming should have zero. I'm sorry. You're too spread out.

It doesn't matter. Just figure it out. You should have no election. Sorry, Wyoming. Your vote doesn't count. I apologize. Either way. Yeah. So they found granite there. That's why it like, sorry, Wyoming, your vote doesn't count. I apologize. Either way. Yeah.

So they found granite there. That's why it's the granite state, Rhode Island. They found a lot of granite there in the 1800s. Good for you and your rocks. Yeah. The University of Rhode Island is in this town. Of course. So at one point, I believe Lamar Odom was running around this town.

Sorry, people. It's a good place for it to be. Apparently, people back in the day were called a swamp Yankee. What? There, which describes what they are like, though. It's super weird. This is a description from a newspaper man back in the day here. This is awesome.

He's a Yankee from poor origins who had to really hack it out of nothing. And then it says, he's a man who lived in woodland swamps and became fiercely independent, stubborn, obstinate, and uninformed of what was happening on the outside. He's an Anglo-Saxon farmer like me. We stayed here. We're crotchety, contrarian breed, but pride in the heritage is overwhelming. Jesus Christ. This sounds like these people live today. Yeah.

It sounded like a really good description of a good portion of our society right there. That's a swamp Yankee. A hillbilly Yankee is basically what it is. So, hey, southern part of the country, you're all swamp Yankees. Take that, you crotchety cantankerous contrarian fuckers. And we love you for it. Cantankerous. They like that word down there.

That's why I used that word. It's a damn good word. It is. Notable people here. Fucking nobody, really. It's a couple of congressmen. Some dude who finished in 10th place on American Idol in season 11. Who gives a shit?

How random do you have to be? Finished in 10th. It's Erica Van Pelt finished in 10th place on American Idol in season 11. A woman from, how long ago was that? I don't know. How many seasons did they have? I have no idea what they do here. Population of this town.

Somebody that was once called dog by Randy Jackson. Yeah, exactly. Good for you. She's from here. Good luck. People of this town, population right now is 30,000, which is above our 25 that we usually say. But the time that this occurred, what we're going to talk about, the population was about 15,000, 16,000. So around that.

So that's in our wheelhouse there. This state, a population has not gone down since the 1890s. Wow. It's gone up ever since then. The 40s, it went up 20%, 40% in the 50s, 20% in the 60s, 40% in the 70s. This town has grown so much. Swamp Yankees are fucking. They are fucking, yeah.

40% in the 70s. This town has grown so much. Swamp Yankees are fucking. They are fucking, yeah. In 1900, there was 4,900 people in this town, and now there's 30,000. Wow. So it's been there. Steady growth. Median age in this town, it's very average with a lot of these things, like the social stats.

Median age in this town, 37.4, which is exactly on the money of the national average. Absolutely. Females, a little bit more than males but not much less married people here than normal by a few percent but nothing major everything is within the realm of sort of normal nothing jumps out as holy shit this is what a weird you know what a weird town uh never married is as uh more than here so there's some more single folks here you can kind of you know probably a better place to try to party. But single with no children is less than the average.

Oh. So it's like people aren't married, but maybe they have kids, I guess. So that's the problem there. So maybe not so party. Maybe not so party. Who knows? Race of this town, pretty white, about 88% white, which about what you'd expect there. It's from southern Rhode Island.

About 2.5% black, 2.5% Asian. It's the East Coast. You're going to have some mixing in. 2% Native American, actually. That's interesting. I would have figured they would have drove them out of there hundreds of years ago, a long time ago, as soon as they possibly could. Before the trading post war, for sure.

Yeah, exactly. First, let's kill all of them, and then let's figure out who's got the better trading post. Before the king with his foot on the bow of the ship, for sure. Definitely. About 4% Hispanic. So, you know, kind of in his typical East Coast small town. Religion in this town, about 47% religious, which is just below the 50% norm here. A lot of Catholics, as you might expect.

36% of these people are Catholics, as we know. Catholics, the Baptists of the North. Every time you get Rhode Island, these fuckers are Catholic. Every goddamn time here. About a quarter of a percent are Mormon. Okay. You made it all the way to the Atlantic Ocean, folks. Good for you.

Nice job here. Otherwise here, 0.0% Jewish. 0.16% Muslim. That's interesting. There's probably a community there, possibly. I mean, a small community of some kind, but no Jews, goddammit. Yeah. That's not happening.

That means they've got some sort of temple there. Probably. I mean, right? Don't they need a, what do they call their temple? I feel like a real, that's the word. That's the word. I don't know what I'm doing. That's the scary word.

That's the one that fucking strikes fear in the heart of a hillbilly. The word mosque. The swap Yankee does not like the mosque. Swap Yankees and mosques don't mix. So this is going to get interesting. The voting politics in this town, about 57% Democrat, about 41% Republican. Remaining 3% are independent because crotchety, it's accurate. You know it.

Got to be a fucking contrarian. You know it. Economy in this town, unemployment rates right on the money. This is income higher in here. Rhode Island's an expensive state. It is. Which there's not much of it. It's because there's only a few people.

They got to fucking pay it all together. If you want a piece of it, it's supply and demand. There's not a whole lot of the state to go around. You know what I mean? What are you doing here? What do you expect? Right. The household income here is about $72,000 a year.

That's great. It's just under 54 is the national average. So it's actually gone down to the household income. Since we've been doing this show, it's gone down $1,000, average household income in this country. So, yeah. Since we've started our show, it's gone down $1,000. Since we've started Small Town Murder, it's gone down $1,000 average household income in this country. So, yeah. Since we've started our show. Since we've started Small Town Murder. It's gone down $1,000.

Wow. So, one year, $1,000 down. Jobs here, there's less like blue collar jobs. There's less manufacturing, less construction. Education, higher jobs in education. Yeah. It's about double normal because University of Rhode Island's in the damn town. So, you're going to have a lot of, In a small town, you dump a major university in.

Yeah. A lot of jobs there. Food services is a little high, but otherwise, jobs are kind of just university and more smart jobs, I guess you could say. White collar or non-picking shit up and ruining it, basically. It's not Swamp Yankee. Right. That's where we're at.

Cost of living here, as we say, 100 is par. Yeah. Cost of living overall is as we say, $100,000 is par. Yeah. Cost of living overall is $135,000 out of all for $100,000. So it's pricey. Yeah. And the most pricey thing of all is housing. Housing. You bet.

At $173,000 out of $100,000. So that is- Are they mostly old houses? That is tough. Well, no, the median home age here is actually about one year older than the average. Wow. It's 38 as opposed to 37. Median home costs, though, $320,800. Holy shit. actually about one year older than the average 38 as opposed to 37 uh median home cost though

three three hundred twenty thousand eight hundred dollars holy shit not fucking around that's expensive for your average home there uh and it's it's it is pricey i mean you look at the like most of the houses half the houses are between 200 and 400 thousand dollars uh most of them between three and four is like two grand 2500 a grand, $2,500 a month. Yeah, no, it is. And if we've convinced you that you are a swamp Yankee and the only damn place that you could possibly set down your roots is in South Kingstown, Rhode Island, we have for you the South Kingstown, Rhode Island Real Estate Report. I found a two-bedroom apartment there, about $1,120 a month on the average.

That's steep, too. Which is $100 more than the national average. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 900-square-foot house. Okay. Little tiny house, $259,900. Holy shit. Not a big house. That's why people are paying $1,100 rent.

Yeah, and it's not like real sharp or like, ooh, it's all updated. It's just an old shitty little house. Sure. I found a two-bedroom, three-bath, 2,200-square-foot condo. Yeah. Condo, mind you. This is not even your own home with property. This is basically owning an apartment.

$399,000 for that. 2,200 square feet, but it's still a condo with two bedrooms. And I finally, if you want to actually have a family, a couple of kids. Hold on. 2,200 square feet, two bedrooms. Two bedrooms. That's a big fucking bedroom. That's probably a big main area or something like that also.

Maybe a basement too. Do you get to own a piece of the lobby? Finish basement also possibly might be in the mix. And I found a three bedroom, three bath, 2,800 square foot house. Very nice home. $449,900. Jesus. So if you have a family, you want to have a decent house, that's what you're

going to pay for it over there. You've got a fuckload of money. Yeah. Things to do here. Yeah. Tons of historical crap. Yeah. Tons. Just shitloads of go see the thing in the plaque with the go to the thing. This house where this guy jerked off and impregnated this one.

It's ridiculous how much historical stuff is there. So you can't even get into it. Oh, this house where this was planned, the Battle of Conqueror. None of that shit. No. Tons of it. If you have an interest of either, basically, this is the place for you if you have an interest in either fishing or bewigged douchebags from times past.

This is your spot right here. The beach you can go to also. There's the beach. You can hang out there. Crime rate, what we're interested in always. Crime rate, property crime is low. It's about half the national average, which is usually these beach towns we found always have higher property crime rates.

Interesting. You ever notice that? I've noticed every single one. I guess because there's tourists, people drink, people act stupid. Yeah. Because it's a lot of probably quality of life shit. They caught a guy pissing in an alley. Sure.

That sort of thing. But here, no. Also, too, it's the places that we've done- This isn't touristy here either. This one isn't? No. The beach towns that we've done are predominantly white, and the white privilege of just like you're drunk and you piss on the beach.

And then you get arrested for it. And then you get arrested for it and then you get addressed for it and now you're a sex offender. That happens. That happens a lot. Yeah. No, this, this, you get that sort of thing. I don't think pissing on the beach is, is, is, uh, is, uh, kind of, it's not one. I don't think one race pisses more on the beach than others.

I think that white people just think they can do what they want. I think you, so you're, what you're saying is a black guy would hide his pissing a little better. Fuck yes, because he's going to be accused of rape. He'd go behind a building. A white guy just gets slapped on the hand. He's a sex offender. The black guy goes to prison for 10 years. Well, he just knows, I better go over here because when I whip this out,

people are going to send him scattering for the ocean. White guys are like, is that guy pissing? I can't tell if he's pissing. Hey, he's just dumping it on a water bottle. That guy is for sure pissing. He's definitely pissing. Violent crime here. Violent crime is about a third less than the national average also.

So it's a safe, little, nice, small, affluent kind of a town. A nice little Rhode Island town, basically. A little East Coast town, kind of the typical what you'd expect, honestly, if we're being realistic here. This town was even safer back in the day, obviously. Really? Because things have always fallen apart. But, I mean, back in the day, it was considered even more safe. It was half the size, especially back when we're going to go.

All the way back, Jimmy, calendars, pages are flying. Lightning's flashing. I love this part. Going back in the time machine all the way back to May 18th, 1975. Okay. So we're going back in time. Different time period. It's a little smelly.

It's a little smelly. Lots of bush, as we described. For everybody. All gender is bush everywhere. In the 70s here, too, this reminds me of a reign of Massachusetts kind of a thing because it's that same kind of New England 70s, just kind of a safe. The kids are playing outside. The mothers are like hearing them, paying attention to them through open windows and

shit. It's like very small town, East Coast. There's pies cooling, I feel like, on windowsills everywhere. The town smells like cinnamon. It just smells like cinnamon. Everyone's got a pie out. It's like, Barbara hasn't put her pie out yet today. It's 4.30.

Where's that lazy bitch? They're not going to have dessert tonight, and I am sorry. Her husband's going to beat her severely. Her husband's going to knock the fuck out of her. And she's going to deserve it. Right. That's not coming from us. That's coming from Joyce, the lady who lives down the street from Barbara.

Right, that nosy bitch. She's very nosy, and she's just, well, who cares? What business is it of yours if Barbara makes pies? Maybe Barbara doesn't want pie tonight. But Joyce did an eight ball at 8 a.m., and she's got four pies. Yeah, she's got that 60s, 70s housewife weight loss meth running through her body. She's just walking back and forth across her house going, I don't know why she doesn't make pies. She doesn't make pies. Those kids aren't going to have pie. Those kids, she's a terrible mother. I'm going to

call the police. I'm going to call the government. I think she should take those kids away from her. She eats pie. Somebody should watch her. Yeah, somebody should watch her, keep an eye on her, because I don't trust what she's doing at all. I know she's not doing anything. She didn't chop up. How long does it take to make a pie? All you do is chop some apples. Vacuuming. I saw her produce buying cucumbers, that lazy bitch. Yeah, I saw it. I know she did. I know she did.

I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. So, this day, May 18th, 1975, let us introduce a couple of folks here. Let's talk about John and Joyce Foreman. Okay. John and Joyce Foreman. We had a Joyce in there. We had a Joyce. Not this Joyce.

This was not the Joyce. No, this is not the Joyce we were talking about. This was just Joyce that lives down the street. Sorry, Joyce. Sorry, Joyce. This is not the Joyce. No, this is not the Joyce we were talking about. This was just Joyce that lives down the street. Sorry, Joyce. Sorry, Joyce. And probably from all the research this week. She does not do cocaine. The name Joyce was just in my brain.

We hit that reference for Joyce. Oh, man. So South Kingstown's broke down into villages. South Kingstown has several Joyce's. They have several Joyce's. Not the only Joyce. Come on, guys. It's broken down into a bunch of villages, as a lot of the towns are back there.

There'll be this town, and in that town is the village of this, this, this, and this. It's this sort of thing. It's like subdivisions in Phoenix. Pretty much the same deal here. There's a village of Peacetail in here. That's where we're going to be right now. That's where the foremans live. They live in Peacetail on Schaefer Road.

Nice little town, and it's a quaint, this is a quaint little area. It's kind of old and it's a nice little kind of historical area I would say here. They have a 10-year-old daughter named Raven which is an odd name for 1965 they named her Raven.

Maybe they did a little PCP or some shit. Well, it's 65. You'd have to be like a beatnik at that point like that's even before this is before like they started off yeah this is this is we'll name a raven bro like it's very strange yeah it's very strange but i'm not sure if uh john and joe i'm not sure if this daughter raven is joyce's daughter or not. Could it just be Johns from another relationship? Because today, May 18th, 1975, in case you're wondering what day we're in, is Joyce's 25th birthday. Okay.

So she has a 10-year-old. So she would have to be fucking 15. Yes. Now, I know they met when they were teenagers, the two, but it sounds like maybe this is a... or maybe he knocked her up. It's the 60s. Who knows? You never know.

And if a chick will go all the way in 1965, she might name her kid Raven too. I don't know. I don't know how that works. She's done some parking. So that's what I mean. They were parking back then. You know, fucking, you know, she's making out with Kanicki and the guy.

It's a mess. The whole thing's a mess. Whole thing's a disaster. So John and Joyce Foreman, they have a 10 year old daughter named Raven. There's an older brother. There's a 10-year-old Raven. Below her is John IV. Oh, boy.

Fourth. Yeah. Four Johns. A lot of Johns. So John's a third. John's a third. Yeah. And this guy's a fourth.

And then there's a five-year-old son named Jason. Jesus. Okay. So they have them like they're like five, seven, ten. 25. She's dealing with a five-year-old, a seven-year-old, and a 10-year-old. Which in the 70s, 25, you had a couple kids. You're married off.

That's what you did back then. The average that people, and I saw this recently in like 1981, the average age that people got married was like 23 for a man, 22 for a woman. Wow. And now it's like 31 and 29. Yeah. And it's like gone way up. Fuck that. for a woman. And now it's like 31 and 29. And it's like,

fuck that. Way up. So in the 60s, it was like probably 21 and 20 for Christ's sake. My mom was 25, divorced twice and had three kids. That's what I mean. People got married early. If you were 27 and you weren't married and had some kids yet, it's like, you better fucking get cracking

here. You're not going to find a man. You know, God forbid. That's what it was, though. That's crazy. People are worried you're going to man you know god forbid that's what it was though that's crazy people are worried you're gonna be an old maid that's just that's what it is when people don't mind their own fucking business that's that's joyce yeah joyce not the joyce for joyce down the street right she's like she's gonna be an old maid too i know that i know that that's what's gonna happen see what happens when joyce uh has she ods and she's not around anymore and everybody like her does that and then the fucking age of everybody keeps to themselves.

Then the age goes way up. That's what happens. And we just stop. We're like, fuck Joyce, Joyce. I'll be an old maid. Go fuck yourself, Joyce. Sorry. Go away, Joyce.

So Joyce here, this, this Joyce, not neighbor Joyce. Very confusing. Joyce Foreman. Yes. Not all the shit we're talking is about neighbor Joyce. It's another Joyce. Who's a fictional person. And she's a twat.

Who I just invented for no reason. This Joyce is a real person. And from all accounts, the sweetest woman on the planet. Oh, I'm sure. She's sweet. She's nice. The kids love her. The neighborhood kids.

Awesome. She's the sweetest can be, this woman here. It's a small town. 1975. The kids are playing outside. Because in 1975, if you lived in Rhode Island, you just said, get out of the fucking house and go play. Go home. Come back when it's dark.

Yeah. That's it. I got pies to make. Pies are in the oven. When you smell pie on the window, still get your ass back in this house. If those streetlights are on and I smell pie and your ass isn't in this house, I'm going to beat it. Right. Then I'm going to beat you up.

Then you're not getting any pie. Because back then, beating your children was considered good parenting. You had to pay attention to them. Give them a smack once in a while. That's what it was. Pie or a beating? Which did you get last night? You were explaining last week how you would thank your neighbors for hitting your kids for you.

Thanks for smacking my son around. He was getting out of hand, and I appreciate you really giving him the back of your hand. That was good. Saving me the trouble. Yeah. Back then, they didn't have, I mean, there was three channels and things like that on TV. So inside, imagine having three kids in a house with no, like, they didn't have PlayStation

or Xbox or anything like that to play with. They didn't have a phone to dick around on. Just kids wild in your home breaking shit and playing ball and everything else. Get out. So they're outside playing. They're all outside. Jason and John and Raven are all outside.

There's a bunch of other neighborhood children, too. It's a typical, it's a Sunday afternoon. Oh, Jesus. I mean, they're all outside playing. This sounds beautiful. Oh, it's terrific. Yeah, they're like that. Sounds loud as fuck is what it sounds.

Three months ago, the Patriots wrapped up their season. You know, this is great. Let's get it going. It's Boston. It's Red Sox season right here. Shit, shit. I think it's all the Boston media for some reason. Poor bastards.

So it's all of that. By the way, February 18th, Laugh Boston. Get out there. So yeah, they're all out there. They're playing Red Sox. One guy's pretending he's, you know, I don't even know, Carlton Fisk over here. That's what's going on here. Carlton Fisk.

Fisk played for them in the 70s. What are you talking about? That guy's awesome. Was it the 70s he was there? Yeah. No shit. Well, he went back and forth with the White Sox. All right.

Anybody with a sock in the title, he'd go play for. He's there. But that doesn't matter, damn it. All right, moving on. So they're outside playing. There's like four other neighborhood kids along with the sister and the brother. Okay. So Joyce at 3.30 p.m., open window.

She has the window open, pie cooling. Sure. I think she was just opening the window, getting prepared to put the pie out. 3.30 is a little early to put pie out. Come on. What are we doing here? But at 3.30, she can hear all three of her kids. She hears Jason, the five-year-old, yelling something and laughing and doing whatever.

So she's like, as a parent, you take mental stock. Yeah. I heard that one. I heard that one. I heard that one. Okay. They're all. Got it.

Got them all. Good. All right. Moving on. Now I don't care for 15 minutes. All right. One of those things. They're alive for 15 more minutes. Fuck them. So they're all. Got it. Got them all. Good. All right, moving on. Now I don't care for 15 minutes. All right. One of those things. They're alive for 15 more minutes.

Fuck them. So they're all out there. At one point in the afternoon, Jason, the five-year-old, announces to everybody that he's going home. Yeah. I'll see you guys later. I'm going home. And he runs down the hill.

Down the hill, there's a fire station located at the bottom of the hill. Sure. And then the street he lived on is right there. It's a hill fire station. Right there is his street. His street is 30 yards from the fire station. Right there. So they can all see him, see you later.

And they do this every day. They're kids that play in the same neighborhood. He goes home, goes down. The kids watch him go to the fire station. They go back to playing. Nobody ever sees him again. Oh, boy. Gone.

Five-year-old kid, Sunday afternoon, broad daylight, middle of the day. Disappears. And this isn't December where it's dark at 4 o'clock. It's 4 o'clock in the afternoon today. It's light out, bright out, nice out. Like I said, they're playing stickball over here. Kid never comes home.

Which is insane. So obviously, that's a big deal. The other kids come home and when they come home, the mother's like, well, where is Jason? And they're like, well, he came home an hour ago. And she's like, no, fuck no, he didn't. Now the thing is too, you never know because it's a five-year-old. Five-year-olds hide.

They play games. Bastards. Literally. Like my five-year-old's done this where I can't find him for a fucking half hour and I'm ready to have a stroke. and then he comes out, I got you. And you're like, are you out of your mind? I will knock you out. In a fucking clothing store.

Yeah, dope. In the center of that goddamn clothing display. Yeah. I had no idea which one, and I'm running around the store losing my fucking mind. Fucking should want to choke this kid, because you're putting so much stress on him. How dare you make me worry about you? I will kill you. When he came out, I wanted to warn him. when he's like i got you i'm like oh christ

and i wanted to tell him why i was so scared but he's five and i can't tell him i was terrified you were being ass raped people want to rape you do you understand that do you understand that you were catnip for pedophiles right now are you getting that for two fucking seconds i i i want to ruin your mind right now and tell you how fucking horrible this world is jesus no shit but it's probably for my tears i just said i was just so scared you were gone where would i go never mind doesn't matter let's go get a let's go get a sucker or something right it's where you would be taken is the problem it's not where you would go it's where you'd be taken that's the. It's not where you would go. It's where you'd be taken.

That's the issue. Yes. That's what we're worried about here. No follow-up questions. It's not where you'd go. It's where you'd end. Yes. And no follow-up questions, please.

Like Bill Belichick. We're looking forward to Sunday. That's it. That's it. Nope. Not going to answer anymore. Well, I'm following up on that. Nope.

Not going to follow up next. So they search for this boy. Of course. Obviously. They look around the house. They can't find him. They look in the yard. Jason, Jason, the typical shit.

Where is he? They call the neighbors. Did he stop by your house? You know, neighbors that he might talk to. Did he see this one out on the porch and stop and hang out with him for a while? When I was four or five years old, I used to just wander down the street. My grandfather used to watch me. I used to just wander down the street.

Like seven, eight houses down, like in the next block. There was this old lady. She was like 90 years old. And she was like an old, old lady. And she had like the little cart that she, you know, from the store and everything with the little groceries in it. And if you knocked on her door, she'd give you candy. Jesus. As a four-year-old.

She'd go, you're so cute. And she'd pinch your cheek. And she'd say, let me get you some candy. And she'd turn around and she'd come back and give you candy. There you go, sweetheart. And she'd send you on your way. It's normal. But in my head, I'm going, this is so fucked up.

Yeah, now we're like, that's creepy. Sweet 90-year-old lady who's got a small child at her door and gives them candy. She was born in the 1800s, this woman, for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? Like, sweet old lady. But this reminds me of that. Like, and one day, I don't remember, but I ended up talking to her on the porch for a while. I don't remember what it was, but my fucking mom freaked out, and they were ripping the neighborhood apart searching for me because they thought I was kidnapped and ass raped.

And instead, I was sitting on this lady's bike, came home with some candy, like, hey, guys, how's it going? Where the fuck have you been? Where'd you get that candy? Somebody gave it to me. What'd they do to you to give you that? I was down at her house down there. And they're like, what? So that's what this reminds me of.

The second I read that, I thought of this. Like, maybe he's at an old neighbor's house or hopefully a nice person's house or something like that. Because it's old-timey shit. And this was in the 80s. This was happening to me. Ten years earlier, it was probably even more common. The father, John Foreman, who you're going to hear a lot from over this episode, you're going to love John Foreman and Raven, the sister.

John Foreman is my hero, and I just love this man a lot, and we'll find out why later on. John Foreman says, quote, we searched all night long. The whole town was out searching every day, but there wasn't a clue, nothing. So much of it is blurred out of my mind. Every day? Every day. For how long? They searched for eight days straight.

Oh, Christ. And we're talking national thing. The police organized a massive search party of up to 2,000 people. Searching in shifts. Searching everywhere to help. They searched all week, and then the Saturday, because he disappeared on a Sunday, and then that next Saturday is when they went. That's when thousands of people came.

There were 14,000 people in this town. Yeah. There was 2,000 people searching all day. And people came from out of state. Wow. People drove from... The military sent people to look like this was a big fucking deal. This wasn't like now where there's always a five-year-old kid missing. This was like, hey, five-year-old kids don't disappear from this town.

Right. We will find it. And everybody was like, well, we knew it wasn't a local that took them. It's this town. Everyone knows each other. It's a nice place. Obviously, it wasn't that. We all know when Joyce – never mind.

It'll just make everything confusing. Yeah, Joyce. Too many Joices. Detective Captain H. Ronald Hawksley, who was another hero of this – What a fucking great name. That's a detective captain name. Detective Captain H. Ronald Hawksley, who is another hero of this. What a fucking great name. That's a detective captain name. Shit, yeah. Detective Captain H. Ronald Hawksley.

H. Ronald. Yeah. Jesus. You know he shot people from a helicopter in Vietnam, old H. Ronald Hawksley. He's got a good firm handshake, the captain here, and a good business card. That's a good looking business card, Detective Captain H. Ronald Hawksley. But he loves that old joke. He loves that old joke about the military toilet paper where you fold it in fours and then you pull that little center out.

And then it's like a square with a hole in the center. It's a military paper. You put your finger through it and you wipe your buttocks and then you clean your finger with that piece of toilet paper. And then you go, what's that little piece of toilet paper left for? It's to pick the shit out of your nails. And H. Ronald loves this joke. He thinks it's the best it's his favorite joke yeah it's somebody else's joke and he can't get enough he loves old school old timey you know he tells the joke he'll tell you the best joke with the n-word in it you've ever heard he tells these

like yeah i got crabs back at nom you know how to get rid of them though and they sit to one side on fire and stab the other side of the nice pick like he does one of those old man STD jokes. You shave one half and light the other side on fire and stab them with a fork when they run out. That's the old man joke. I know a comic that sold that on stage. Yeah, we do. On stage. Actually, yes. Multiple times.

So many times. And he's a nice man. He's a sweetheart. And he was in Vietnam. That's the thing. That's what we're talking about. So he's an old man. So H. Ronald Hawksley says, quote, we're crossing our fingers, hoping to get up to 2,000 people to join the search.

Which, yeah, they said they have up to 200 police and volunteers daily since then all week, have combed the woods, the areas, the ponds. They did a five-mile radius around the child's home. I mean, literally, they were combing ponds. Five miles. People were going in ponds and just looking for shit. They didn't care. They had dogs.

They had everywhere. They said he was wearing a blue pinstripe polo shirt, maroon pants with a patch on the knee. It doesn't match. Well, it's Sunday. That was back when you had play clothes and school clothes. It's got a patch on the knee. Fuck out of here.

You're going to destroy your school clothes. This was like his worst clothes, and they sent them out there. You're goddamn right. It's a blue and white striped polo shirt and maroon pants with a patch. Also, it's 1975. And he's playing on a grassy hill. This is the height of fashion probably in 1975. They were corduroy.

He was on the cover of GQ that month, I believe. He's about four feet tall, blonde hair, blue eyes. Yeah. He's missing from 23 Schaefer Street. Shit. Hawksley said, quote, let me say that with each passing passing passing hour i feel more sure uh he may be met uh he may be met with foul play fuck so that's his every day and obviously every minute that passes you're like this is getting worse and more no one's calling saying

i have your kid for ransom or anything like that this has just disappeared yeah so that's never good uh he's the hoxley said he hoped that good weather would be there saturday without the good weather, you're not going to get a lot less people coming out. It'll be impeding the search. He says, quote, if the weather is bad, we may postpone it until Sunday. We want all the conditions to be perfect. How much of an asshole are you that if you're considering going to look for a missing five-year-old? It's raining. It's raining today.

I thought that. You figure most of them, they're not. You're an asshole. They're casual. Well, that's what everybody's doing today. But it's raining. It's like, well, I don't know. We were going to either look for the boy or go strawberry picking, but it's raining,

so I don't think we'll do either. I feel like that's what people were doing. What an asshole. Yeah, what do you want to do? What an asshole thing to do. It's a little rainy. I'm feeling stuffy. I don't want to catch a cold.

You know what I mean? I got stuff to do this week. So it's kind of. I don't have the water in my shoes. Memorial Day is coming up. I'm going to have a barbecue. I really kind of want to be sharp for that. And the allergies right now anyway are killing me.

So if you add to that the rain, I just don't think it's going to be good for me. That's a fucked thing to do to somebody. Somebody's missing their child, you asshole. Put on a coat and get an umbrella you fuck well i think too it means like also the the woods would be harder to search in the rain it's the money people can't get but he said we're expecting 2000 unless we don't get better weather no he just said that it's uh he's hoping for good weather to hold he said if the weather is bad he may postpone it we want all the conditions to be perfect he's gonna call it off yeah they don't

want it to be like okay we searched all of here, but that was swampy, so we couldn't get to that section. He wants it to be a sweep of, okay, we can clear that. He's not here, definitely. He's not there. Here's the thing, though. If I've got a five-year-old missing, I don't give a fuck what the weather is. You search everything swampy or not.

Yes. And I'm sure they would search, but to have 2,000 people wandering through a swamp might not be the most efficient way to go about things. I still think in the rain you go, you know what? There's a missing kid. Let's take a look. What do you say? Let's have a gander. I don't think he was going to go home and watch the game. I don't think he was going to go watch the University of

Rhode Island basketball game after that. I feel like he would search still, but for the volunteers. Hawksley is going to announce his command post. They Hawksley, he announces command posts. They set this up here. They have command posts where volunteers can gather and get organized. You search this section. You search that section.

He said the members of the National Guard, Navy, and Marines from Newport are expected to come join the search. Unless it rains. Unless it rains, obviously. Yeah, then all they're going to have is him and a couple of postmen. Him, a couple of postmen, and one else will go out in the rain. Him, a couple of postmen, and the parents. That's it. And the parents.

That's it. He said that if they can't find the child with the massive search. The postman. But yeah, it's rain. I know. Yeah. You just got that. Rain, sleet, or snow.

Took him a minute. This is why I got to cut the live shows. The mail system works in every climate. There you go. That's why. Thank you. You all got that. Yes.

And it fucking sailed right over me. This is why I got to come to live shows. I'm like, postman? What? Because I'd say that, you'd laugh, and then I'd look at Jimmy like, you didn't get that, and then he would go, oh, I'm a moron, and then you'd all laugh at him again. So it would be great. Postman.

Now, they say that it won't be the last search if they don't find him, obviously. Hawksley said, quote, we won't stop looking. We owe it to the family to keep looking. If we call the search off, it will be for a good reason. What the hell could a good reason be? We just hope that somebody has this boy and is taking good care of him, Hawksley says. Yeah, the odds on that are great. I would say. I hope that he said both of those sentences real close together. Yeah, yeah. We just hope. Yeah, for good reason. We just hope

that somebody's thinking. Yeah, we just hope that somebody has him and just say, yeah, and it's taking care of him. Good care. Yeah. Not just taking, quote, taking care of him and not that. Not just taking, quote, taking care of him. I took care of him and not that. Not like an Italian take care of. No winking and nodding. So he says that if anyone obviously has any information, call it in. They said you can call the police station or send a letter to Box 10 in Wakefield. That's his old school.

Meanwhile, we're going to be searching. And he said, quote, there will be no questions asked. All we want to do is find the boy. So they're just saying we don't even care. The police captain's also there. Meanwhile, we're going to be searching. And he said, quote, there will be no questions asked. All we want to do is find the boy. So they're just saying, we don't even care. The police captain's also there. There's police in Brockton that are coming in to help. It's everybody, all hands on deck, everyone in the fucking area here. Also, the crazy part is, though, they are very concerned because the police captain in Brockton,

the reason why he's interested in this is because last year on June 18th, not May 18th, June 18th of last 74, a five-year-old boy disappeared in Brockton, which is Brockton, Mass., which is very close by, without a trace, a kid named David Lewison, who is the son of an attorney named Melvin Lewison. And he says, quote, there are similarities between the two disappearances. The cases are very parallel. We're looking for clues to find Jason by talking to them. We've been talking to them every day.

So they're talking to people in Brockton, too, to see if there's any correlation here to this. Keep that kid in mind, by the way, because. Lewison? Yeah, keep that kid for a second. Now, Jason's older brother, John, remembers this. Imagine if you're his older brother. And you're like, yeah, just waved at my little brother. You would never think twice, like, oh, I better make sure I say, it's your little brother.

You'll see him at home. Little brother's a nuisance. Yeah, get the fuck out of here. Go. Yeah, you were shitty in our wiffle ball game anyway. Like, you can't hit a curveball. Get out of here. We got five on five already.

You're going to be a six. What are you doing? You know it. Yeah, it's a five-year- out of here. We got five on five already. You're going to be a six. What are you doing? You know it. Yeah, it's a five-year-old. And that's probably why he went home. He was, you know, he felt left out maybe. I don't know. Either that or he was thirsty or had to take a dump or something.

We have no idea. But his brother John said, quote, I remember playing with him and he was going home and that's pretty much what I remember of it. Then later in the day, mom crying nonstop, dad driving like a maniac all over the place trying to find him, and the firehorns. The following day, the state police with the dogs in the woods and just going through everybody's house. Jesus. They do house-to-house searches. Wow.

This is no shit. They're like, because they think maybe he could be hiding somewhere. Or he could have been put somewhere. He's five. He's tiny. Like Nazis looking for Jews. I like this. He's fucking tall.

He's tiny. You could put him anywhere. He could be hiding anywhere. He could get stuck somewhere. He might have fell in something. Yeah. Oh, the worst. That's five. He's tiny. Nazis looking for Jews. I like this. He's fucking tall. He's tiny. You could put him anywhere. He could be hiding anywhere. He could get stuck somewhere. He might have fell in something. Yeah. That's the thing, too. You don't know.

These are old houses. Who knows if he fell in a thing? He's trapped in somebody's basement. So, I mean, they're searching house to house, five-mile radius, combing swamps. They're going to find this fucking kid. Now, his uncle Peter, Peter Schofield, who is Jason's uncle, he was stationed at Fort Dix back then, and he was called home to help

for the search. No, no jokes. No Fort Dix jokes. We're better than that. But we'll make stupid male jokes, but we're better than Fort Dix. He says, quote, Peter Schofield said, quote, I received a phone call Monday morning around 7.30 or 8.

My wife said the FBI was on the property. I asked her why, and she explained. In the meantime, they had searched my home, the attic, and everywhere else. We lived on High Street upstairs above Jason's granddad. So what he did was this Schofield got transferred from the military back to South Kingstown and served for two weeks there under Hawksley searching for Jason. He said, hey, can I search?

Can I? You know, I'm in the fucking military. They're called military. Can I go there? Yeah. So he does. They search for they search for for Jason. Schofield said, quote, there were high emotions among the family to start with.

It's a feeling that's hard to describe when you have a total loss of something. I can't imagine. Like I said, you lose your kid for five minutes and you freak out and you, oh Jesus, and you're ready to die and then he comes and you're like, oh God, Jesus, and you're you know, a week? Even a day? I can't imagine. The horrors. An hour.

Going through anybody's mind. It's horrific. The fear here is the most. Letting that sit in for an hour, I can't imagine. No, I can't either't even anything beyond that is so foreign to me it makes my skin crawl it's so scary it's it's it is man because they're so innocent and tiny and you've seen them cry about anything right and while they're gone when they're gone for that amount of time all you can think about is they've been crying they've been crying

they're not safe are they scared are? Are they cold? Are they hungry? The whole thing, yeah. I'm Italian. I think of hungry first. That's my first. Is he hungry? Can I feed him something? I don't care if he's bleeding. He needs food. That's my grandmother. That's a grandmother thing there. Her grandma would say, my baby's hungry.

I don't know. They could almost kill him, but he might be hungry still. You never know. He's a growing boy. He needs something. That's what she would, ridiculous. She'd be searching the woods with a plate of rigatoni in her hand.

If we find him, he's going to be hungry. That's exactly what she would do. I swear to God. She would have a bag of food. She'd be wandering around with a tin tray with a portable fire under it to keep it warm. That's the thing. The Sebastian maniscalco joke about when he goes to school he's got like all like a veal piccata and shit and like dinner

from the night before and like in a big that's my grandmother used to pack me if i stayed at her house she said i had a not a paper bag a grocery store bag like emilio estevez in breakfast club with 40 things in it. And it's ridiculous. He has cookies like Sebastian Mastroff does. It's the same thing. I had the same thing. Just shit, fruit. What are you giving me?

Ridiculous. So grandma searched it for him in the woods here. Peter Schofield, by the way, said, quote, my wife and I used to babysit when John and Joyce had to do something. We were aunt and uncle but also close members of the family. And it's been that way for years. So Peter Schofield is going to hang around this whole thing because he cares. So they search that week, that weekend, that Saturday. They don't find him. They can't find him.

It goes on for years. Years. Years. Years. They don't find him. No, birthdays, Christmases. Birthdays, Christmases, just nationwide manhunt. They're putting out national flyers and things of that nature looking for this kid.

People thought he was kidnapped, obviously, because they didn't find him somewhere, like fell down in his head or something. That's a logical conclusion. Yeah, they figured that. They circulated thousands of posters and flyers. They offered a $6,500 reward, which I think you could up that amount a little bit. Seems a little cheap. Let's just make it $50. Is that what a five-year-old is worth in $75?

$6,500. $6,500. Well, I think maybe this was like $76.50. So they were like, hey, $6.50, we'll do $6,500. I can only imagine. Why $6,500? Is that all they could raise? Right.

Jesus, I'll chip in. What are we doing here? Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Let's up this reward, guys. We'll chip in all of us. Fuck, man. Jesus. So information was checked out because there was different tips coming in from New Jersey,

Montana, California, everywhere, all over the country. There was tips coming in that amounted to nothing. Yeah. The Foremans and Hawksley kept searching. They kept searching. They kept searching. Joyce the most. Real Joyce, not fake Joyce.

Real Joyce acting like Stranger Things Winona Ryder Joyce, searching for her goddamn son. Got it. And never giving up. Hawksley said, quote, Joyce wouldn't quit. She had no doubt in her mind that she'd find the young guy, and I wanted to believe it. So, I mean, this is very much Stranger Things. Kid's gone.

She's searching. She's got—I feel like this guy is the same thing as the captain from Stranger Things, Hawksley. I figure him with the big hat, and he's like Hopper. Hopper and Hawksley. Hopper, Hawksley, Joyce. Too close. This is fucking close. This is too close.

This is very close. And Hawkins is the name of the town in that show. It is, yeah. Hawksley, it's very close. It's fucking close. It's too close. It's very close. And Hawkins is the name of the town. It is. It's very close. Lots of parallels. So this poor kid, though, they can't find this poor kid anywhere. This goes all the way on. They're talking years, years.

1981. There's an article where they talk to Jason's mom, Joyce. Yeah, it's insane. She became a crossing guard in 1977. I thought you almost said something else. Cross dresser. Yes. She became a trans crossing guard in 1977. I thought you almost said something else. A cross-dresser? Yes. She became a transvestite in 1975.

I'm like, what? How did that happen? She changed her name to Jason in honor of her son. She is now Jason Foreman. Let's respect her wishes, everybody. It's true. She uses the men's restroom now. Yes, that's right.

Good for you, Joyce. Good for you. She's done baking pies. Yeah, my pie days are over in many ways. I'm only eating them from here on out. Yeah, she became a crossing guard in 1977. She said it was hard to take at first, seeing all the kids around. I would avoid kids.

I mean, I don't know if maybe that would make you feel better about it. Yeah, I don't know what you would do. But for her, she wanted to take care of the kids and protect them was her thing. That's why she was a crossing guard, so she could protect them. But also, it was painful for her, too. Of course. It was like a self-torment thing that people always do to themselves. She said, quote, I had one kid whose name was Jason.

Every time I heard the name, I would snap around. Then I'd say, then I said, this is ridiculous. I have to keep my mind on this job. She was, I don't blame her. How do you ever get your head out of that? Ever. I don't care. I don't care how when it is.

She's every year. She's now seeing a kid that the kids that are older, where her boy would be at that point. And the kids that were the same age in the neighborhood. Is that's what Mike? Yeah. He'd be that age now. That's how big he was when he disappeared. That's how big he was last year.

And this is six years later. Now, this article, she said, quote, There's never a moment I stop believing that Jason will be coming home. That's what kept me. That's what I keep in my mind. I expect he'll come wandering in one day. Good Christ. This poor woman, man. That is terrible.

So now there's a there's a break in a weird way. Yeah. In this case case in April 15th of 1982. Yeah. Okay. April 15th 1982 on Schaefer Street same street. Yeah. A 14 year old newspaper

delivery boy named Dale Sherman gets talked into coming into a house on that street. Okay. He's talked in. He's given hard liquor and beer. Oh, boy. Party time. You give a 14-year-old kid some liquor and beer. He's going to puke everywhere.

He's going to be hammered in 10 seconds and puke everywhere. Apparently, this Dale Sherman, he goes into this house. He's given beer and liquor. He's a 14-year-old kid. He wants to get drunk or whatever. It's 1982. Who knows? He's got Twisted Sister sister playing it's having a good time you know what i mean i figure that's what's going on i don't know what the hell people are playing in 82 i think it was more like rush

and uh i think twisted sister was huge in 82 maybe actually i think that was big i listened to him when 86 yeah but that you were way behind me Mexico. Yeah, that was five years after they were popular. What the hell is wrong with you? Sammy Hagar was out. Jesus, Jimmy. Sammy Hagar? Yeah. He's a 70-year-old man.

Sammy Hagar? Who listened to Sammy Hagar? My stepfather at the time. There you go. Loved that shit. Exactly, exactly. And I just blare. I still got it.

Your stepdad? No. Jimmy Buffett's dad, too? He probably is now. He wears Hawaiian shirts exclusively? I can see that. No, now he's a meth-ed and he's got problems. He bangs tweakers.

He's a vile human being. Excellent. This is great. So this poor Dale Sherman, he's Twisted Sisters playing and they're doing all that. He passes out, Dale Sherman, because he drinks a lot and kind of nods off. He wakes up to something very interesting. He wakes up to someone trying to garrot him. Trying to choke him to death, basically.

So that's how he wakes up, this 14-year-old kid. He comes to in a moment where he's supposed to be not coming to. Yes. And they figure, okay, he's passed out. I'm going to choke this kid to death now. And instead, he wakes up and starts fighting back. Yeah. Because he's 14.

Right. And you're 14. You got some piss and vinegar in you. You do. So he's fighting back. He fights the guy off of him. Wow. Gets out of the house.

Tough kid. Tough kid. I like him. Good for you, Dale Sherman. He runs out of the house and he lives right down the street. So he manages to get home and tell his dad about this. Uh-oh. Now, if you're a 1982 dad, and someone says, some guy just tried to give me booze and then

choke me to death, and he's right down the street, that dad's going right outside and kicking the shit out of this guy. If not bringing a pistol. He's going to say, he's going to go into the garage, stop, grab a wrench, and then he's going to go over there, and he's going to work you the fuck over with a tire iron. That is what's happening to you at that point. At least fingers crossed. In 82, there were dads that were just like, ah, bullshit.

But in 82, the cops would show up and be like, he did what to your boy? Good. And they'd kick him too. Like, good for you. You should fucking kick him. Yeah, give me that tire iron. A couple extra shots in on him. So, I mean, this guy here, he's pissed, the father, clearly.

So the father, first he calls the cops, and then he heads over to the house, too. He says, this guy did this. I'll be over there when you get there beating the shit out of him. I'll be there. Yeah, you'll know which house it is because it'll be the one with me dragging a guy back and forth, pummeling him with a tire iron. It'll be that house. The guy with the tire iron's me.

The guy with it against his face is him. Exactly. You find a house like that with one guy with his arm up like He-Man saying he has the power standing on the other one's chest. That's the house. That's all we're saying. Fingers crossed he doesn't beat me and take that tire iron from me and start beating me. I'm pretty enraged.

I don't think it's going to happen, though. It's not happening today. I figure if the 14-year-old could fight this guy off with a garage, I'm fucking him up with this tire iron. A grown man with a tire iron? And I'm pretty enraged. I don't think it's going to happen. It's not happening. You figure if the 14 year old could fight this guy off with a garage. I'm fucking him up with a tire iron and I'm pissed. A grown man with you tried to fuck my kid rage. Oh boy. Watch out. He comes over pissed off, knocks on the fucking door, bangs it.

This guy comes out. He answered the fucking door. I don't know if he answered it or if he's standing out in the yard going, come out, motherfucker, in the middle of a small neighborhood. Everyone's like, I better go outside. At least deny some shit or something. At least deny some shit. At least shrugging. I don't know what you're talking about because this is going to go.

I don't think he's leaving. He's not going to just go, never mind, and then leave after two times nobody home he's going to keep knocking i feel like yeah he's not the pizza guy he's going to keep knocking here uh so the father confronts this man and punches him okay good starts beating the shit out of him here uh now what ends up happening is that this man called the police sherman's dad called the police to his house. So the police show up over there. The police are across the street while this is going on. OK.

Now, yeah. Some Benny Hill music is playing. So now the attacker, and we'll talk about who he is, his father is also there. The attacker's father pulls up and he starts waving the cops over from across the street. Come over here. Come over here. This is where you want to be. This guy's beating the shit out of my son from across the street going, Come over here. Come over here. This is where you want to be. This guy's beating the shit out of my son.

Let's see what's going on here. The 23-year-old, there was a 23-year-old kid. That is the beat-ee at the point, the one who's getting beat by Sherman's father, is a kid named Michael Woodmancy. He is 23 years old at this point in time. Okay. A 23-year-old kid. He lives and has lived right across the street from the Foremancy. He is 23 years old at this point in time. 23-year-old kid. He lives and has lived right across the street from the Foreman's, as a matter of fact, right there on Schaefer Street.

His father is a police reservist also. So his father was calling the cops over to do the guys. Okay, come over here. Now, Woodmancy, the son, 23-year-old Michael, he's an unemployed loner. He lives with his father, and that's it. Unemployed, heavyset, socially awkward loner who lives with his dad. He's exactly what you'd be. So the cops come over.

The kind of guy you'd picture to have a garrotte ready to choke a 14-year-old. Cops come over there, and they're like, hey, stop beating that guy. And this guy tried to fucking choke my 14-year-old kid.ops come over there and they're like, hey, stop beating that guy. This guy tried to fucking choke my 14-year-old kid. He tried to kidnap him, take him in the house and they said, really? That's interesting. Tell you what, why don't we all go down to the station and talk about this? We got questions for you for assault.

We got kidnappings, assaults. Let's wrap this all up. Everybody in a room and figure this shit out. Let's sort it all out somewhere else. This is a bad episode of Cops and I don't want to go back and forth. Back then, just everybody in one room and let's figure this shit out here. So they do that. They take Michael to the headquarters, Michael Woodmancy. He denies any wrongdoing.

He said, I didn't attack that kid. I know what you're talking about. I didn't try to choke him. He's out of his mind. A little man showed up at my house and started beating me. That's all I know. They don't know anything. So then one of the cops cops on just a thought, just a whim, he says, 14 year old kid, same street. I worked that Foreman case. Yeah. Let's ask him about that. Jason Foreman. Just see how you see how he reacts. They said,

how long you lived here your whole life? Weird. Interesting. So you're about 16 in 1975. Okay. Let's talk about this. You remember that kid disappearing? Because obviously everyone in the neighborhood would remember a massive nationwide search for fucking weeks at a time. For two doors down. Yeah, they do that. It doesn't take long. At first, he's like, yeah, I don't know anything about that.

After a minute, not long after, I mean, we're talking within an hour, he confesses to everything this kid. Wow. He says he sexually assaulted and killed Jason in 1975. Yeah. Now this kid, he has no criminal record, no history of mental illness. Yeah.

I mean, there was no anything. So they don't know what the hell's going on with this kid. And back then they were like, this is odd. Yeah. Like why? They just didn't get it. So they took him right away to the Institute of Mental Health to determine if he was out of his fucking mind or what. The attorney general says that he will be prosecuted as an adult with Mnzee, even though he was only 16 at the time. Right. People freak the fuck out. Oh, sure. In the small town right across the street.

This guy said he disappeared and we'll get to what happened. It's it's pretty rough. One of the neighbors, Caroline Ellsworth, said, quote, Michael was a loner. You never saw him with anybody but kids in the street. The kids always stopped to talk to him. So he was always cultivating these relationships with the neighborhood kids. So when he said, hey, you want

to come inside for a minute? Sure. I'm not afraid of this guy. Talk to him all the time. And he's a younger guy, especially in the 70s when he's 16. Five-year-olds sees a 16-year-old as just like a super kid. Like not an adult, but not a kid. Like a super, you're an amazing super kid. He can do everything.

And you're a kid. This is great. Like, yeah, that's how you see that. He can reach the cereal in the top drawer. Yeah, this is amazing. And he still goes to school. Right. It's that sort of thing here.

So, yeah, they freaked out. The woman who lived next door, Sharon Carney, as you might imagine, would be a little freaked out. She said, when I think of all the times I left my kids home alone, that bothers me. Can you imagine that? Right next door. And that didn't stop him, obviously, because Jason was across the street. At the time of Jason's disappearance, he was a 16-year-old junior at South Kingstown High. Like we said, loner, kind of a heavyset kid, lived with his dad, Franklin Woodman C.,

on Schaefer Street. He was a police reservist, his dad, which is a big deal. He's total loner, though. I mean, he had violent thoughts for some time, he said, before he committed the crime. He would tell therapists. He would tell psychiatrists that he would just that he was thinking about what it would be like to kill someone,

and he thought it would be easy to get away with it, and he thought it might be some fun. Oh my, he said that it might be some fun? He said, quote, yeah, he said, I want to know what it would be like to kill someone, thought it would be easy, and he thought it would, quote, be some form of fun. What the fuck? He thought. Just that's his mind and his mindset. That might of fun. What the fuck? He thought. That's his mind and his mindset. Is there some sort of responsibility of a therapist to relay that shit to somebody?

This is later. This is the police therapist. Oh, okay. They're relaying everything right to the district attorney who's then writing it all down. That should be somebody's responsibility. You know, I thought about killing people and it might be fun. He said that's why he did it because he just thought it might be fun. He thought about it for a long time.

And it might be fun. He said that's why he did it, because he just thought it might be fun. He thought about it for a long time. The crazy part is when they searched for the body, they searched house to house. How did they not find it when they searched house to house? Well, because his father was a reservist, they told him, search your own house. They said, go out, search, start with your own house. When that's done, go out. A little light-handed.

Maybe you could search your own for us? Exactly. So, I mean, he probably opened the basement door and jason you down there no all right he's not gonna search through his son's room for a child's corpse right he's not gonna think that so he does that what he did he left it in his room searched the house no one searched the house uh the worst part is uh when they when they were telling it about it, he admits that he lured Jason into his home, Michael does, sexually assaulted him, which fucking luring and sexually assaulting a five-year-old boy. Fucking horrific, man.

Then stabbed him in the heart after that. That's how he killed him. It gets way worse. Okay. He then put him in a plastic bag and hid his body in a small trunk in his room. Oh, my God. Because he's a small kid. Yeah.

And so his dad never found it up there. Sweet fuck. Unbelievable, man. Now, the worst part is he said, he tells police about this. He tells them also that he fantasized about murder all the time. Yeah. He just thought it would be easy to get away with. He thought it would be fun.

He told them that if they search his room. Yeah. This is seven years later. years later, they're going to find Michael. They're going to find Jason. They're going to find parts. And also, they're going to find a journal. Sweet Pete.

With some very graphic things in it, descriptions. But he says, that's just fiction, though. That didn't actually happen. None of that stuff. I didn't actually. Sure. He's telling them that journal is not real. That I made all that up even though it corresponds perfectly

with what happened oh my god unbelievable so yeah it gets worse here oh man so they come in they go to find the body obviously in the house they go to find remember the body they've got to find little Jason so they go to find him and they they search his room on hiser, they find a black box. Yeah. In the black box, they find- What's in the box? Yeah.

They find the journal, number one. They find Jason's skull. The cocksucker. His skull. No. And several other bones on the dresser. Jesus. The bones had all been completely cleaned and shellacked.

What? Like at a fucking museum. What a creep. Cleaned. Clean. It's hard to clean a bone. Real quick, the dad is a piece of shit too. He's a police officer.

Yeah. He doesn't have any idea this is going on under his roof. What a dipshit. Yeah. It's been picked clean and shellacked. Unbelievable. More on that. He painted the fucking bones so that they wouldn't decay further.

Yeah. Because they're souvenirs for him. Oh, what an asshole. More on that in a moment on the shellacking here and on the journal and on all of that here. Yeah, claims the journal's all fiction. Family freaks out, obviously. They're actually at first kind of relieved in a way, too. John Forman, the father, said, quote, you know it was a little bit of a relief.

At least I knew where he was. But my wife and I, we cried and cried all those years. Our son was just across the street. You imagine that? No. Nationwide. You're thinking, where could he be? You're thinking, could he be on a cable car in San Francisco?

Could he be in a fucking Mount Rushmore? Where? And he's across the street in some fat shithead's trunk uh some loner asshole's trunk uh so uh yeah anyway they uh they found uh scofield the uncle yeah uh he was in in boston doing a marine some marine thing here he said quote my wife got a hold of me and she was in tears it was a very stressful time a very saddened time i keep thinking thinking about it constantly, and I have since that time. It's something you don't forget. It's something that stays with you for the rest of your life.

Yeah, I would say so. Now, he says Schofield gives a lot of credit to the South Kingston Police Department for, I mean, give him credit for cracking this, but also they fucking, it was under their noses the whole time before. I mean, I guess they just followed procedure and whatever, but. I mean, I'm mad enough whenever I put my wallet in a place that, and it's obviously the last place I look, but it's like the most fucking obvious place I should have looked for it. And I'm mad enough about that.

The fuck, I just wasted all that time, 15 minutes looking for this goddamn thing. It's right here. This is a child and this is years. He talks about H. Ronald Hux there yeah says that gives him a lot of credit because this hoxley followed tips all over the country yeah this guy traveled around the country for years looking for this kid like he wouldn't give up on it even need to fucking go to the gas pump no uh the journal now the journal oh christ now the journal ends up being sealed yeah we never get to see exactly what's in the journal. Yeah, we won't get some details. The only people who have seen the journal, prosecutors, the homicide detectives involved in the case, the judge.

Yeah. And they also share what they want to know with the family. Yeah. They don't give it to the family because they don't want to reveal the whole thing. Sure. But they tell them what they need to know and they tell them certain parts of it. And it's fucking ridiculous man uh raven the sister yeah uh tells this tells the story about this she doesn't give a shit in the press she's like this is what's in there people need to know

this motherfucker's sick and i don't care i like it i don't care it's he's my brother's gone so we're going to talk about this it's not you're not protecting anybody by not giving my brother's gone. And this fuck face wrote this. Yes. She says, quote, Michael dismembered my brother limb from limb. Soon after, he was eating my brother's flesh, eating my brother's flesh like the animal he was. No, he was worse than an animal. Animals kill to eat to suit a need. Michael killed for pure sport.

Michael killed just because he could. This deranged killer murdered my baby brother and as he watched him die, he scribbled notes in a journal. It was a how-to book on murder. He ate this child. Wow. A 16-year-old kid

ate a child. He ate a 5-year-old. Wow. He boiled the meat off the bones to keep the bones. Yeah. It's all in his journal and ate. This dad is an asshole. How did he not know? I'm disgusted right now.

How did he not smell it? How did he not see it? How did he not find a trace of this shit going on? How do you? I mean, I get like the Columbine kids. There's so many how does in this. It's not even. How does is are stacked to the fucking ceiling right now for me.

The Columbine kids built all these weapons and stuff and had a mass murder tool in their bedroom. And the parents didn't know. But you can hide that shit under a bed and it doesn't smell like a rotting fucking corpse. Fuck, man. It's just. What, did he have a hot plate in his bedroom that he could boil this? No, he was doing. He had to do that shit in the kitchen. I assume when his dad was out for doing whatever.

Wowza. Out at work for the day. Wowza. I'll boil a child. I feel bad for the dad because he probably feels pretty guilty for that. Oh, I assume he feels horrible for it. But he's an asshole. Exactly.

But he's an asshole and he didn't pay attention to his goddamn kid. Yeah, they talked about, you know, she talks about the search went on for years. Raven says quote, it was insanity. It's hard to explain what this did to my family. We've been torn apart. I can't imagine. My father became an alcoholic and my mother became depressed and they both suffered mood swings. Can you imagine what that would do to a marriage?

The amount of drugs that I would be ingesting would be insane. God damn, yeah. Alcoholic, obviously. She talks about this. She said, quote, That is a big box. Yeah. In the journal, he talks about he boiled, my brother's bones like trophies. Next to the box was the disgusting journal. Yeah. In the journal, he talks about he dismembered and boiled his body. But it's fiction.

All fiction, even though that's exactly what he did. It's all fiction. Wow. She said, quote, that lunatic ate my baby brother. Imagine a life trying to accept that as a fact. To cannibalize someone for the sake of wondering what it is like. That, to more demented than demented than the thought of killing someone to this day i have nightmares about this i wake up screaming and i know it's not just a dream it's

my real life holy fucking shit how do you how do you go on how do we go on right now like never yeah yeah them too How do you do? Wow. We've got, we're faced with that conundrum and that has nothing to do with how I'm going to pay my bills tomorrow. I'll go home and be fine and my kids are okay and neither of them are in a box with their bone shellacked. Unbelievable. And I still feel horrible.

I can't imagine what these people feel like. Unbelievable. All I have to say is in a little while, you're really going to resonate with John, with the father. We'll put it that way. He's going to say things and you're going to go, yeah, unbelievable. All I have to say is in a little while, you're really going to resonate with John, with the father. We'll put it that way. He's going to say things and you're going to go, yeah, exactly. I agree with that. That's what I would have said.

Same shit. Like, it's weird. You always hear people react to tragedies in different ways. And you're like, oh, that's an interesting way to react to it. Very rarely do I hear someone react to it exactly like I would. Very rare. And this guy fucking nails it. Nails it. So what do they do with this fuck then? Do they just throw him into a loony Very rare. And this guy fucking nails it. Okay.

Nails it. So what do they do with this fuck, then? Do they just throw him into a loony bin for now? Let's talk about it, man. So John Foreman said that, you know, the police told him, he tells press that the police told him how he ate his son. And he knew that part. Chief Vespia, he says about the acts, he just would tell, he told the press that the killing did, quote, include some sexual gratification, but he would not speak specifically, obviously. The journal in 1983, the Providence Journal, wrote this, quote, the most striking aspect of the bones, the doctor said, this was the medical examiner, was that all traces of flesh

appeared to have been purposely removed. To be crude, Dr. Arthur C. Burns said it's a matter of boiling them with lye, a weak lye type solution and soap. The mixture, he said, dissolves the tissue and allows it to be taken off the bones very cleanly. The bones had also been shellacked. So he went through like a process, like a, I don't know, like a taxidermist or something that would do this. He had like goggles on to do this shit.

He knew to go get lye and do it. That's insanity. Awful. At 16, how do you know that? In the 70s too. It's not like he looked it up on the internet. No doubt. He googled it. How do you take flesh off of bones? He could have been an Eagle Scout, you fuck. Jesus Christ. So on March

24th, 1983, what they do is they plead him. They don't want to have a trial. No? The prosecution doesn't want to have a trial. Really? They don't want to drag it out. Because if there's a trial- Oh, you've got to put moms in that?

Every detail that happened is going to be excruciatingly gone over. Every newspaper in the country- Oh, you bet. Every newspaper in the country is going to have details of this guy eating your son. So to spare the family the details and to spare everybody honestly too, I think it was also one of those things it's like we can't, the public's going to

freak the fuck out. Five o'clock news comes on when people are eating for Christ's sake. I can't talk about this. So Michael pleads guilty. They get him to plead guilty because he's dead to rights on everything to a reduced charge of second degree murder. He's sentenced to 40 years in prison. That's not enough.

And this is in 1983. OK. The prosecutors agreed to the plea bargain, like we said, because they didn't want the journal to come out. Also, that was the main thing is they're very concerned about this journal coming out because this is very, very. That's a lot. Very graphic shit. March 6th, 1983 is they have a funeral for little Jason. It's like this is the most heartbreak.

I saw this article. Man, do this is heartbreaking. Here's so heartbreaking. How do you do that? How do you do that? You don't. You bury the skull. No.

Three bones. Oh, Christ. And they did it. And what is that? That's a place. Jimmy. Jimmy. Tiny white coffin.

No. Tiny little. It's fucking. What the fuck? I couldn't do it. I couldn't bury that. I would want that cremated because I don't want his artwork project buried for him to be able to visit.

Thank you. He knows that's there. He's only got 40 years. Who knows? He might come dig it up someday and play with it more. Fuck that. This was the most 40 years. Who knows? He might come dig it up someday and play with it more. Fuck that. This was the most heartbreaking shit. I can't imagine. I was just like, oh God, this whole story was

horrible, but then this one, I was like, I can't. This is a lot. That's too much. With this funeral. That's heavy. He's buried in Riverside Cemetery, which is right across the street from the Foreman's too. I don't know if it's good or bad. That's right around the corner from that asshole. Yeah, they're all right there. Poor little guy. Sentencing. They sentence him, like I said, 40 years on the plea deal.

Post-sentencing. After sentencing, Superior Court Judge Thomas H. Needham, which sounds like a judge name, ordered his... Everyone in this name sounds exactly like... Everyone in this story sounds exactly like who they are. It's like straight out of Central Casting. It really is, yeah. Judge Thomas H. Needham.

He ordered the journal and all other evidence in the case to be sealed. Yeah. He said the accounts were too disturbing for Jason's family or the general public to see. Oh, fuck. Yeah, he did. He had to. Afterwards, obviously, the family's struggling with this. Super struggling with this.

Raven, the sister, said that her father, John, was possessed by pent-up anger. I don't blame him. She said, quote, he didn't talk about it and he didn't want it talked about around him. He just didn't know how to deal with it and so we let him not deal with it. So he's just been raging for 40 years, this guy, basically, 35 years. The mother just was all about protecting children. She would be a crossing guard. She would knit mittens and hats

for kids who were too, that didn't have mittens and hats. This is a small town. If it only had one school, this little cocksucker walked past her at that crossing guard area every day. Yeah. They all saw him every day. What an asshole. They lived across the street. They all knew each other. I'm saying that guy, Michael

saw mom and saw her grieving. Yes, absolutely. And oh, is he a piece of shit. And that made it better for him. You bet it did. They're out there. They're looking. She's doing this. And I have his bones on my dresser.

And they don't even know it. I'm paying some fucking. He get off on that shit. That's the thing. He get off on that shit. Put some Thompson's water seal on her boy's shin bone. What a cocksucker. Raven said, quote, my mother took responsibility for those children as if one of them was her own.

She knew their names, their routines, who their parents were, all of their little idiosyncrasies, and which children would be lagging behind because she didn't want them to get kidnapped. I am heartbroken. In 2000, Joyce dies from lymphoma. Jesus. Sorry to laugh, but you said I am heartbroken. I'm like, oh, yeah? Well, guess what?

The poor lady. She also has a terrible disease that she's got. This lady's life was all, the last 20, first 25 years might have been fine. Last 25 years of her life, because it was 75 to 2000, 100% heartache. Just a steaming pile of shit. Heartache and trauma and pain. Tragedy. Pain.

Yeah. So he's in jail, Woodman C. Early March of 2011, there is talk of an early release. What? For good time. What? He's earned good time, Jimmy. Oh, what a terrible phrase that is.

The good time law, which good time law. I hate that. Good time. Right. In Rhode Island, allows a prisoner to earn as much as 10 days off his sentence every month for good behavior. That's an awful law. That's a lot.

That is way too much time. It's a great law if you're not violent. Yeah, that's a great law if you're in for a fucking pound of weed. It's a fine law if you're in for drugs and you don't fuck up and act like a jerk off in prison and let you back out. I don't think you should be in there anyway for drugs. Whatever. But for this guy?

Fuck that. You don't earn anything. You do 40 years in a day. We keep you an extra day. We tell you paperwork took a while. If you take a slow step, you get an extra day. We will trip you on the way out. You're goddamn right.

So you'll fall down and we'll have to take care of you. So yeah, they get a month off every 10 days a month for good behavior. So it's been 28 years he was incarcerated. He had been able to earn back 12 years of good time. Wow. Michael, this early release law was first introduced in 1872 by the way. This wasn't like

oh, the hippies brought this in. This was 1872. That shit's outdated. Strike that one and burn it. Well, the last time they significantly changed it was in 1960 before this. So it just was just sitting on the books. And we'll get to what happens with that law after this.

This causes some uproar. I imagine this kid going to get out of prison. You want this guy coming across the street? No, thank you, dude. I mean, people would be hunting this guy like Frankenstein. I would. He deserves it. This is Frankenstein's monster, for fuck's sake.

So he is transferred from the Department of Corrections facility. He's transferred to one in Cranston, Rhode Island, which is he's housed in a special protective custody unit with other high-risk inmates. He'd been in Massachusetts for the whole sentence for his own safety because there's less publicity about it there. And not everyone wants to stab him in the face probably there. He's the guy you'd kill first in prison. Fuck yeah. This fat fuck ate a kid? I can't wait to stab him and fuck his

neck hole when I'm done stabbing him in it. There will be a man with a barbell for sure. Absolutely. Ask Dahmer. So yeah, this is a kind of a protective custody cafeteria. They eat together in a separate room.

They have their own little courtyard they get in. These are all the people everybody wants to do bad things to because they deserve it. Oh, creep parade. A little creep parade. Exactly. And some of them are rats, too. Sure. Rats and creeps. What if you're a rat?

You didn't do anything. You just, quote, did the right thing and told them you got to hang out with this fucking guy? Jesus Christ. That's a shit way to live your life. That's terrible. That's a a reward i get to talk to a dude that ate a five-year-old ate a kindergartner right this is ridiculous he wasn't even in kindergarten he ate a kid that had a nap time no oh my god jesus christ uh so uh yeah uh he uh they're saying they don't know what to do with him he's he's in he's there if they said that he hadn't made his wishes known yet of what he wants to do both his parents for dead are dead he has no relatives in kingstown

yeah they're like what is where's this kid gonna go even if we let him out uh vespia the police chief said quote i have no information that he wants to be released and i have no information that in the unlikely event that he is released he would want to come back to this community. So this is all very premature. Yeah, I would – shit. You don't want to go back to that community. No, the dad, John Foreman, he's premature or not. He says, quote, I got real mad. I got angry. I got upset.

I got scared. All these emotions were going through my head. I didn't know that there was such a thing called early release. Parole, yes, but not early release. I didn't know that there was such a thing called early release. Parole, yes, but not early release. Now, the people around it, like the sentencing judge, Susan E. McGurl, she was a state prosecutor who agreed to the plea bargain in the first place, said that she was shocked that they were talking about releasing him. She said, quote, certainly there would not have been any anticipation of him getting out in 28 years.

You'd think he would do the whole time. Quote, of all of those involved knew the defendant would be released at some time. We discussed with the Foreman family the defendant's possible release on parole or good time. We did not anticipate due to the condition of the defendant that he would be able to earn maximum good time credit. He served 70% of his sentence. It is my understanding that he will have a 10-year suspended sentence with 10 years probation upon his release. Which doesn't matter because if he kills kids, who cares if he goes back? Police are preparing for the possibility that he might

be back on the street. The Vespia said, quote, we do not know what his plans are or if he's planning on coming back, but it's definitely something we plan on discussing, I would say. We're going to have a chat about it, for sure. I would think so. Let's all get together and talk about this. Maybe the most dangerous man that's ever been in this town might be coming back.

Let's have a powwow about this. We'll have a talk. So Schofield, the uncle, said, quote, it infuriates you. The man had no remorse. He never said I'm sorry. He just shut up and stood there. And that's the sad thing. And he didn't.

The town freaks the fuck out. They lose their minds. Protests happen. I mean, there's a town full of great people. Facebook groups spring up immediately. Protests the release of convicted child killer Michael Woodman Z group pops up, has 1,300 members in a day and a half. Wow.

Yeah. Even bigger group has 10,000 members. It's like an online protest. Let's all rape Michael Woodman. Yeah, let's all do that. Wood online protest. Let's all rape Michael Woodsy. Yeah, let's all do that. Woodman Z, let's rape him. Or do something horrible to him. I'm sure there's a Michael Woodsy somewhere. Let's not rape him. Yeah. These people are

pissed off. They're all mad. They're protesting. Every form of protest that's possible. They're calling, emailing, doing social media, showing up with signs, yelling, screaming, doing the whole fucking thing here. There's a state rep here who's obviously trying to make political hay on this deal. And it's the right thing to do, but they're also – oh, well, I'll take care of that.

I'll lead that charge. No, no, I'll lead that charge. There's nobody who can say this is bad. Pandering fuck. This is the only politically nonpolitical thing there is, is we don't want a guy who ate a kid to get back out. No one wants that, ever. That's the worst, though, still. ACLU guys are going, no, he's good where he is.

I think he's for good times, fine. It's fine. A politician that jumps on that bandwagon and fucking leads the charge for that, it's the equivalent of just somebody going out and being like, where's all my white women at on stage? It's the most pandering shit. And at the same time, if they didn't say that, you'd be like, hey, do your fucking job and say that.

There's really no winning for a politician in that case. I mean, if somebody asks you, make a speech, but don't fucking lead a charge for it. I think the citizens got this one under control. Well, she needs to help try to change a law. That's the thing. So they need her for that. That's a difference.

She said, quote, this is a man who committed the most heinous act that's ever occurred in our area and got away with it for seven years until he tried to do it again. She has a five-year-old daughter that lives like three blocks from where he lived while this is going on. She says, quote, crimes against children

are in a category by themselves and parents like myself look at what he did and tried to do again to another boy and we're all asking ourselves what can be done. I assure you, we are looking at every possible angle to protect our community and others from Michael Woodman Z ever being able to offend again. The crime this man committed still haunts our community. That is so much better than, well, it's like, shoof, I don't know. That's still, I got to give her that.

At least she knew what to say. I don't know. That's still a I got to give her that. At least she knew what to say. Sister, the sister Raven back with her again. She said, how can this man be let back out on the streets? What if he thinks about killing again? Well, that's a good fucking question.

Well, he's going to. She says, quote, with Michael, thoughts are dangerous. He doesn't see the world in the same colors as normal people. Nobody wants him on the streets. And to be honest, he won't he won't be safe on them. My family and the whole state of Rhode Island are rallying to keep this maniac behind bars, but legally, there's little we can do. She publicly calls for the journal to be released, so just let everyone know what they're dealing with.

She said that it's so graphic and gruesome that they worried that... She said, quote, what's in there are, quote, so graphic, so gruesome that authorities worried that if the wrong type of people got a hold of it, you'd end up with some Charles Manson type cult following. The journal states that there was a sexual component of what he did to my brother. People need to know what he's really done. Jesus. So, yeah, they do need to know that so they can be pissed off. Police Vespia here said, quote, I will not tell you what was in it, but I will tell you that it was a horrible, horrible crime among the most gruesome investigations I've ever participated in.

And I've been around the block a few times. Yeah. If you freak out an old cop. Yeah. That's some shit. Yeah. Because they've seen it all. Yeah.

Uncle Peter Schofield's back again. He says, quote, they say time heals all wounds, but never completely. And it doesn't it doesn't take much to open up that wound. Yeah. The father. Not this wound. Not this wound. Not this wound. This one never heals.

The father has a different approach. And I love this man. After a little bit of some dickle, he's ready to talk. I love this man. This is everybody's spirit animal here. We're all going to live through this guy. John gets on the radio, WPRO AM radio in March of 2011 while this is going on and he says quote i do intend if this man is released anywhere in my vicinity or if i can find him after the fact i do intend

to kill this man as aggressively and painfully as he killed my son my man fuck yeah john that's my man right that's that's the reaction i want out because i would be telling everybody go ahead let him out i will hunt him down and fucking kill him so that's fine. You do that and find a jury that will convict me. I'll follow the bus that he's on. Find a jury in this town that will convict me for it. Good luck. They all search for my kid, too. This fucking guy deserves it. He says fucking rain. Yeah. He says, quote, I cannot think I cannot sleep. All I think about is trying to find a way to get to get this man to kill him. That's that's what he thinks about.

That's what's still on his mind, I'm sure. If he gets out, he's going to do it again. I love him. I love this man. Did you see the video of the guy that killed the pedophile in the airport? Yeah. That's exactly what you're supposed to do. Well, this, I mean, you don't get a more justified, I want revenge, than he kidnapped my child and ate him.

That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to call the police. He did. But in the event that the justice is unserved, it's your duty as a parent. He didn't say, I'm trying to break into the prison to stab him. He said, if they let him out. You let him out legally and make him a free man. If we're both free, he's dead. He's dead. That's all I'm saying. That's for sure. Which I can't blame the fucking guy. You'll hear him out. You let him out legally. I'm out here too. If we're both free, he's dead. He's dead. That's all I'm saying.

Which I can't blame the fucking guy. You'll hear him scream, but he'll be dead. He said that he blamed himself for accepting a plea deal that saw him just a second degree. He said that his decision to accept the deal had been spineless. Now he's just hurting himself. He said,

I've got to blame myself for that. Allowing him to be released early to become a predator to someone else. I'm going to blame. I'm going to blame for all that, and I'm going to make that right. So he's saying if he gets out, it's my fault, so I've got to kill him. It's on me, guys. I don't want him hurting anybody else. He says that his son was such a nice kid.

He was a well-behaved, smart kid. He was intelligent for his age. He said he had hopes and dreams for him. I know he was going to be somebody. I had really high hopes for this young boy. Yeah. He also thanked the people who've supported him on there. They've given the family lots of support. And he said, quote, I'm going to return their thanks by getting rid of this beast. That's what he said. I love this man. He's just telling everybody. He'll tell everybody that'll listen. I'm going to kill him. I'm going to. Oh, he's on the radio. He's just telling everybody. He'll tell everybody that'll listen. I'm going to kill him. I'm going to...

Oh, he's on the radio. He's literally broadcasting it to everyone within the sound of his voice. People of Rhode Island, when I see him, I will murder him. Murder. Good morning, Rhode Island. South King's Town. Oh, we're going to have murder in the air today. Let's get John Foreman, the murder man.

Oh, he's going to murder, murder, murder. Here on 98.3, I'm here. I'm John Foreman. I'm going to kill today. I am going to kill like a bastard. It's going to be crazy. Oh, going to hunt him down as soon as he gets out of the prison. Going to hide in the tree.

Going to hit him in the leg with a sniper rifle shot. Come up and tear him limb from limb with a bare hand. I'm going to gut a man. Yeah. All right. John Foreman. Here's John Fogarty. I was going to say, time is 924, 68 degrees, and here is John Fogerty.

Light traffic on the turnpike. So, yeah. The prosecutors and prison officials and families and everyone with a shred of sense of fucking smartness on the face of the planet is trying to get him involuntarily committed if he's granted release. Like, can we put him away? We can't let him out on the streets. So what they did is they handed to the board who decides this shit, if they can involuntarily commit it. They said, well, here's this journal.

You might want to take a read. We'll take a little gander at this. Have you read Harry Potter? I'm going to give you another read. Yeah. So they read that. Oprah's book club. This is poof. Oprah would not like this book.

The police chief, again, Vespia said, quote, it is a booklet, several pages in length. It's written in paragraph form. I will not tell you what was in it, but I will tell you that it was a horrible, horrible crime. And that's the gruesome thing. He said, quote, this is a great one, too, here. He says, the police chief says, says quote i have taken the position that he is not welcomed in this community and that as the as a resident and the police chief i don't think it would be safe or prudent for him to be here he will be lynched and i'm not going to protect him

is what he just said don't care uh he said there's a major concern obviously for his release hundreds of people were gathering and demonstrating every day uh against not only the law of the good time release, but him also being released. They said he only committed one small infraction in 28 years in prison. That's how he got all that time. Yeah, because he's just sat there, nobody to eat, I guess. He also did the same thing all for 28 years that he did the day that he was arrested. Yeah. He just sat there with a dumb look on his face.

That's what it is. Now, psychiatrists, in order to do this, it's not easy to do this, to involuntarily commit somebody. It's hard to do. It's a chore. You've got to eat a kid or something. It's crazy. What more fucking crazy thing can you do? You ate a kid. I get it's hard to commit someone.

And then you wrote a short story about it. I get it's hard to commit someone. And then you wrote a short story about it. There's no more extreme than that. You can't just be like, well, he keeps stealing things or he won't stop doing drugs. He ate a child. He literally raped and then ate a child. Done. Done at that point here. In order to make the determination, a psychiatrist must certify that he would benefit from the care and that the treatment of a mental health facility and that if left unsupervised, he

could do serious harm to himself or others. I think we can – Covered. I think we got that one covered. Checked all those down the board. What else you got? Yeah. It's an involuntary commitment assessment.

They said it only happened one other time in the state. So it's not – this is not a thing here. This doesn't happen often. This is trying to involuntarily commit a guy after prison here. His lawyer, his lawyer, Michael's lawyer said about the about the committal, he said, quote, it's a high bar in Rhode Island. Two psychiatrists must present certificates and opinions stating that the individual has a mental disability and is in need of care and treatment in a facility would likely benefit from the care and treatment and that their presence in the community unsupervised

would create a serious likelihood of harm to self or others by reason of mental disability. This is a very specific thing they have to do too. Even if two psychiatrists agree that he poses a danger, a judge also has to sign off on the commitment every six months. Can we find that other judge? So yeah, it has to be brought up every six months, which shouldn't be a danger, a judge also has to sign off on the commitment every six months. Can we find that other judge? So, yeah, it has to be brought up every six months, which shouldn't be a problem, I wouldn't imagine here. Oh, this one again? Yeah, yeah.

Keep him in there. Yeah. Chief Vespia said he gave these psychiatrists this journal. Also, everyone who needs it is getting this journal here. He said, quote, I received the court order last Friday to make the document available to the Department of Corrections who will provide it to psychiatrists who may see him. It was hand-delivered Monday. I did talk to Corrections Legal Counsel who said once received, the only person who would open it is the psychiatrist.

Other prison officials would not. So that's how, like, secretive they are with this whole thing. They don't want screenshots on the Internet because that would be kind of a big deal. That would be horrible. The family lawyer for the Foremans said that despite that on the show, John said he wants the journal to be released to the public. His lawyer said that he doesn't think that it should be made public at all. He said because they said a lot of people would want to kill this kid after that. He just said that because he was upset.

He said, quote, it was a period of time when John had not had a lot of opportunity to digest what was going on. Yeah, I would say not. He was pissed off. That's all it was. There's not enough time to digest that. Yeah. Now, about this possible release, Uncle Peter said, quote, since we've heard the news, it's been a stressful time. We haven't been able to sleep trying to run damage control on people claiming to say they say, quote, I knew jason in kindergarten he never went to kindergarten people need to realize you're not in it if you're not in it for the glory when we had the funeral for jason half the town turned out that's great support but these people claiming to do all these things it doesn't help it just makes everything worse uh yeah so he's jesus christ he's saying this is fucking

ridiculous people are claiming they knew the boy. Yeah, they're trying to. That's so fucked up. Perfamed by it. Oh, I went to kindergarten with him. I know this. And that's what it is, man. That's disgusting.

Yeah. He also said that the early release doesn't make sense. He said, quote, I'm infuriated that they come up with this good time days. Truthfully, how do I feel? Would you let Hannibal Lecter out of jail? Would you like to see Charles Manson around again? Would you feel comfortable having Jeffrey Dahmer, this type of sick individual, on the loose again? No, nobody would.

Yeah, I agree with that. He also says that even if they let him out, it's not going to be great for him. He said, quote, I don't know how he's going to survive once he gets out into the community. Technology has evolved. It's on everybody's mind. I would think that some people have compassion and would say he should go about and live. I just hope he's smart enough to realize it. I hope people don't take me out of context here.

I tried to be a fair person, but he's created a lot of harm to my family, and I have a lot of ill feeling about him. Personally, I don't know what I'd do if I saw him, which is way fairer than I would be. Now, the father, John, they said, do you regret what you said on the radio now that you've had some time to think about it? Fuck no. He said, well, quote, that's not the right way to go, but I would probably do it just the same. There are no words for him.

He's like, I thought about it. It's wrong, but I'd still kill him anyway. I just have to. I probably shouldn't have said it, but I'm going to do it. Yeah. It's fucking nuts, man. This whole thing is so crazy. At this time, too, there is legislation quickly being drafted to change the early release statute so it would not cover, you know, killers like this asshole.

Not just killers. Extreme cases. Fucking the worst. Now they can pick and choose. Do we want these people to be there? So it's that sort of thing here. He says that John can't imagine the guy coming back, and I don't blame him. He said, quote, over the years, I blocked out all the memories of what happened to Jason.

The tragic end to his life is just too painful to think about. I have been able to visit Jason and his mother Joyce at their gravesite with only love in my heart for them. But now I'm afraid to visit now that this terrible memories are back to haunt me and my family. There's no forgiveness in me. Only revenge. No doubt.

This sounds like a fucking movie. This guy sounds like a character in a movie that sounds like liam neeson it's like a vang dam movie they killed my family now there's no forgiveness left in me only revenge and then he goes out and kills everybody everybody it's like the kaiser soze story like oh there is no forgiveness only the crazy part i was just thinking about, if he was 16 when he killed Jason, when he was 23 and he kidnapped a 14-year-old, that kid was like seven when Jason was... So he's like trying to wipe out all the kids that are around the same age. Yeah, and not only that, what did he do in between?

Do you think he sat quiet for that long? No way. No way. I think he just didn't touch... No way. He had that, and then he's like, I'll wait eight years to do this again. I don't think so, personally. I'd look around a little more.

Yeah. One of the protesters is saying, I think it's terrifying, particularly since he's only 52 years old. That's a very young age. He's still a danger. Someone doesn't acquire a taste for such horrific action, and then it just disappears because he went to jail.

So I think he will hurt people again. And that's not your first when you're that meticulous with a kid. Fuck no. No way. That is way too. That's too fucking advanced and too well done. He knew exactly what he wanted to do. Right.

Dahmer, who was the king of that shit. Right. It took him so long. It took him years. It took him so long to figure out that's his thing. Right. And then he wanted to get this. Like this kid had a plan.

All of a sudden he knows how to. Get the lie. Fucking get the shellac out. He knows how to shell the lie fucking get the lack of fucking bone jesus christ that's crazy also they're thinking maybe they can get him uh even though he wasn't convicted of a sex crime maybe they can get him on the sex offender registry nice so that way they can keep track of him better uh that's a thing here uh we know that said one of the lawmakers said quote we will know his whereabouts and where there's that and his neighbors will be aware of where he is. That's true. But law legally wise, you can't do that.

It's ex post facto. You can't make a law for something that already happened. Right. They're saying, like, you know, what's he going to do? They said, like, everyone's like, if he does get out, he's getting the fuck out of Rhode Island. They're like, well, how he's he can't just leave. He's going to be on probation for 22 years. He's going to have to report daily to a probation officer. He'd have to get – and if he wanted to move, he would have to get another state to agree to take him. Do you think there's a state in the union that's going to agree to take this guy?

Not if they've got five-year-olds. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. I think that would look bad on a commercial for any politician against them. He let a five-year-old eater into our state voluntarily. Yeah, and that's what they said to one of the spokesmen for South Kingston, said, quote, this is not going to happen. I can't imagine a state in the country that would take him. So he will return to Rhode Island. So they make the new legislation here. The Senate passes a version of the bill that would eliminate good

time for certain crimes. That's how they did it. They parsed it out like that. Teared it. The foremans have been big on this, pushing for this legislation. Good. They said, quote, it's been very difficult. They said about them, it's been very difficult for them. Time has lessened the loss of his son a little bit, but this has pushed it back to the forefront for them, and they struggle with that. They are not where they were before this whole thing happened.

No doubt. No shit. They also say that the good time law has its purpose, but it goes too far when it allows those who've committed – Horrible things. Cannibalism to go free after 28 years. That's insanity. And one of the board members has a very salient point here. They say, quote, we have created a scenario where it's hard to imagine how he could find a place to live, how he could find a job, how he could have a life that even begin to resemble something like normal functioning.

And that's putting aside the fact that there are lots of people out there threatening his well-being. It's hard to imagine how this can play out very well. No shit. Nothing about this is going to be good. It's never going to work out. He could be a regional manager of a Dunkin' Donuts apparently. Apparently so, yeah. I feel like somebody would come and choke him to death with donuts.

They'd just shove a dozen down his fucking fat gullet until he dies. John goes on Good Morning America during this time. My man, he went to the big stage. Yeah, he's on Good Morning America, and he says, quote, stay out of my way, he tells the kid. Because they're like, what would you tell this Woodman Z kid if he gets out of jail? And he said, quote, stay out of my way. I want to kill him the same way he killed my he said, quote, stay out of my way. I want to kill him the same way he killed my son.

I can't get it off my mind. National television. He's telling everybody I'm going to eat him. National television. I can't get it off my mind. I want to kill so badly. I don't blame him. I feel like it would be fun. I feel like we should let this guy kill this guy.

I really do. I feel like we should let this guy fucking kill this guy. I really do. His son, John IV, here said, quote, that don't think he's not capable of it. He said, quote, push comes to shove. I've seen him do things other people can't do. If he doesn't do it, somebody will. Jesus Christ.

Okay. His wife now, Debbie, he's got a new wife, Debbie, after Joyce died, said, quote, I don't know whether John will snap. I don't actually know. I am very worried. I would say so. I have no idea when he's going to do it. He's going to do it. John just says, I'm willing to stop him or whatever it takes. I like him. I like him a lot. April 8th, 2011, they had

a protecting children rally. They had a big deal to keep him in there. The whole deal of people with signs, you know, Jason Foreman, no early release. The whole deal. There's people, all the politicians are there, the governor's there, of course. And listen to this political horseshit that this guy goes. It's an injustice to the children of Rhode Island that someone who committed this kind

of crime should get out for good behavior. Evil must be stopped. Instead of taxing the people of Rhode Island, start protecting the children of Rhode Island. This is not the same thing. No. Not the same thing. How about you don't?

The tax rate in 2011 and a child being taken from across the street in 1975 don't go together. They don't cross paths. They don't fucking go together. You're at a protest to protect a child's memory and you bring taxes up right the fuck out of here with that that's somebody that has some back taxes on pay yeah exactly they're pissed off about it here uh they they talk about the attorney general of the state said that uh you know this could spark this his

release could spark a perception of lawlessness uh yeah they let a kid out who eats a kid and then he's walled by the people. That's kind of lawless, yeah. But that's a bit extreme on the spectrum, though, because it's not lawlessness just all over. It's just one dude's going to die. No, it's true. It's true. That's a good point here.

They said, Foreman said, quote, justice was not served properly 28 years ago, and I hope justice is served properly now. Our worlds were destroyed, and I hope other families don't have to go through what we did to learn from what this grief feels like. He said that children can no longer play like they could play years ago. He says Michael Woodman's E is a child killer. It's in his DNA. He will do it again. Yeah. He's a child killer.

It's in his DNA. He will do it again. June 1st, 2011, the Department of Corrections Psychiatrist Board here that they have to go see confirmed that Woodman Z met the criteria to be involuntarily committed to an institution after his release. Woodman Z, on advice of his attorney, agreed to the voluntary commitment. Wow. Saving his own life. Eleanor Slater Hospital in Cranston. Yeah, he said to him, what are you going to do?

Right. You're going to go out, they're going to kill you. And this guy is literally saying, I can't wait to kill you. And there's a bunch of other people that will help him. He's willing to go to prison for it. Right. A hundred people could watch him do it and they'll go, I didn't see a fucking thing. I didn't see shit.

I would stay here if I were you. It's better off. Michael said here, actual quote from Woodmansey. He said, quote, two psychiatrists who recently evaluated me found me to be a candidate for civil commitment. I've decided to seek voluntary civil commitment. Voluntary. Voluntary. Now it's voluntary, even though everyone wants it. Now, should he change his mind and want to leave? Because you never know. He must file a notice of intent to leave. And there has to be a court hearing before that. And also every six months he has to undergo a court supervised review even after that.

Now, September 11, 2011, 53-year-old Michael Woodman Z, after serving just less than 29 years of his sentence, is released from prison in Cranston. The state spokesman said that they transferred him from the correctional facility to the Eleanor Slater Hospital at about 5 a.m. I want to do that shit early before anybody gets out there. They said it took place, quote, under tight security and without incident. Yeah. They brought him out like with a vest on. Like he had they have to. Everybody had a picture. Everybody that security had a picture of the dad. Yeah. Watch this. Yeah. or just let this guy through.

Let him through. This is the only one that's allowed. Everybody take three steps back if this guy comes running through. October 2012. He wants to vote now. What? He wants to vote. No.

Now, I am, I will say this, I am for felons regaining their right to vote. I'm for that. Fuck yeah, yeah. Every scumbag, you know how many people I know are complete assholes? Fuck, some guy who got busted for weed can't vote now? Where am I? Fuck it. If you have any interest enough in the process to actually

go vote, fucking do it. Good for you. Except if you eat kids. I don't want to know. You don't have a say. I don't want your opinion. What if that one vote puts a... No, you don't get to make that choice. Also, I don't want to know. You don't have a say. No. I don't want your opinion. What if that one vote? No, you don't get to make that choice. Also, I don't want to know where he votes. I don't want to know what he votes on.

What if we voted for the same thing? Yeah. What if I agree with this guy? I don't want to have a political conversation. I don't want to have any agreement with him. I know. Right. Yeah.

So in Rhode Island, they can regain their voting rights upon release from prison, which he was released from prison. Except for. So, yeah, this it's it's crazy, man. You have to this in 2006. They changed it from having to complete parole and probation before regaining the right to just being released from prison. But they challenge this asshole's right to vote. Yeah.

The the the board of canvassers, the Cranston board of canvassers, listen to this shit. They have to let this through, and they don't. They unanimously refused an absentee ballot request for him for the election. They tried to block two other ballot requests from convicted killers in 2010, but

they ended up being submitted eventually. But this person, they said no, they won't do it. But this person, they said no. They won't do it. In the end, after all this is over, he ends up withdrawing the request because it causes a huge thing. Two of the three board – there's a three-member board. Two of the three people must sign off on the request. All three members refused his request. And if they reject a valid ballot, they face legal action for not complying

with state law. It's like the lady who wouldn't sign gay marriage licenses. It's the same thing. So what'd they do with them? So what they did is Board Chairman Joseph DiLorenzo and a member, Robert Mucksean, chose to resign from the board rather than sign the request or face charges. Amazing. Yep.

He resigned only, one of them resigned hours before the Friday deadline, and then the other one opted to skip out on the vote by staying away from City Hall and discussing his legal options with his attorneys. So yeah, they quit rather than sign off on this guy's thing. Like, fuck that guy. Someone else will do it, but it's not going to be me. How about that? This scumbag is affecting people's jobs now.

Yeah, he is. That's fucked up. It's goddamn insanity, man. But it is what it is. So as a fucking voting clerk, what are they called? I don't know what they're called. But as that person. State board member.

Whatever they are. How do you go to work one morning and a fucking guy that ate a kid that is so far out of your world, so far out of your world, and now he's affecting your life? What a cocksucker. Not only is he affecting your life and your job, he also wants to vote to affect laws, too. No, we're not doing this. Now, 2017, the Joint Commission, which is the – they accredit thousands of hospitals around the country every three years. Yeah. The Joint Commission, which is the – they accredit thousands of hospitals around the country every three years.

Yeah. They issued a preliminary denial of accreditation for Eleanor Slater Hospital, where he is. Yeah. They learned the state had submitted a 60-day action plan to fix the issues and retain accreditation. meaning that there are too many possible opportunities for suicide and patients hurting themselves, such as improper door hinges, shower rods, bed frames, TV mounts on the wall, and things that are considered possible hanging sources. So they don't want him in there. I was going to say, this is great. I would send him into just a room full of rope and knives and broken glass and razor blades and poison and cyanide and just let him sit in it.

and poison and cyanide and just let him sit in it. He said this Rebecca Boss, who's the director of the Department of Behavioral Health Care, Developmental Disabilities and Hospitals, said, quote, the majority of concerns have to do with the environment of care. And the truth of the matter is that we have a psychiatric hospital that are in aging facilities in this state. And we've known this and we've been working toward finding better facilities. So this guy's in a fucking place where he might be able to hang himself fingers crossed yeah fingers crossed he pulls it off let's just say that here uh so they also said there hasn't been any suicides in recent

memory but in recent memory yeah uh now here's my question after all this what happened to david lewison yeah what happened to that kid why didn't they come back with that never came back they never figured it out. Brockton never gave a shit. Never gave a shit. They never could tie it. They never, that kid's disappeared. That kid's name disappeared.

Five-year-old, exactly 11 months to the day before that five-year-old near town. Nobody says anything. Exact same thing. Disappears. Not a goddamn word. Don't know what happened to him. How many more? Yeah.

How many fucking kids did this guy kill? It has to be more. How many kids did he take? Especially 16. He lived across the street. He couldn't do anything. What happened once he got his driver's license? Yeah.

What happened after? Because that was 16. He could leave. What happened when he was 17, 18, 19, 20? When he could go out and just do whatever and leave a kid in a swamp somewhere. What the fuck? This is a monster. And there's no way he didn't.

No way that was the first time. No way. No way that was the first time and no way the one he got caught for at the end was the first time he'd done it since then. There's a lot more out there and we'll never fucking know. Never.

We'll never know. Because he wants out. The other thing, yeah, he wants out. Well, here's my thing that I think. I think personally that that journal is sealed because the journal tells of other crimes that he committed that they don't want to even fucking get into. They don't want to get into it. They have no body for it. They don't know how to do it, whatever.

Now, that would suck. That's a really big conspiracy theory because you'd think they'd want to at least give the parents closure of this. But, I mean, if he didn't know the kid's name, who knows, man? Who knows? That journal is probably one of the more disturbing items there are. Pieces of anything ever. Yeah. So we don't know.

Joyce and Jason are both buried together at Riverside Cemetery right in the neighborhood there. At least they're together, I guess. Poor Joyce. One more thing here. And we do this on Crime and Sports where we're like, I feel bad for all this, but I feel bad most of all for this person who has the same fucking name as a horrible person but isn't them. But if you Google search them, this is what you find. Oh, my God.

So I found a couple of Michael Woodman Cs. Oh, no. And I'm just going to say them so. Please don't take it out on these people. They are not a child eater killer person. They just happen to share his fucking name. Michael Woodmansee, a CPA from Oregon, Eugene, Oregon. Poor guy.

Guys, if you have any tax issues, anything that needs accounting. Oh, shit, it's tax time. Go to this guy. Go give him some business. Michael Woodmansee from Eugene, Oregon. He will not eat your five-year-old, I promise. I swear to God. And finally, also, too, there's a Michael who does recruiting and that sort of thing

in the oil and energy field in Houston, Texas. Don't be afraid if he recruits you. 99% sure he will not eat your flesh. Just a thought. I can't guarantee it, but 99% sure. So far, we haven't heard anything. Haven't heard anything out of him. That would be a huge coincidence if two guys named Michael Woodman Z were cannibals.

So I would trust those guys more than anybody. So he has no taste for your flesh, I promise. Oh, Christ. That is South Kingstown, Rhode Island. That is one of the more fucked up tales we've covered so far, huh? I had this one locked and loaded for a while here. To wrap up the mainland. Continental United States.

Oh, my God, with that story. With that. It's fucking rivals, my God. With that story. With that. It's fucking rivals Barbaroo. It's tough. Whatever the fuck it is. This, to me, was very Raymond Mata. Yeah. That, too.

Yeah. Scott's Bluff with the toddler flesh in the fridge. It's so much. This is insanity, man. This was a crazy story for me because of the fact that he almost got out. Yeah. We almost let this guy out. At least Raymond Mata had a personal connection to that kid. You know what I mean? man this was this was a crazy story for me because of the fact that he almost got out yeah we almost let this guy out at least raymond mata like had a personal connection to that kid yeah i mean he was doing that as a revenge or something yeah this is just has nothing this is a sick person

who would have done this for the rest of his life and he he would have been jeffrey domer did it for his rest of his life he would have been jeff Jeffrey Dahmer. I'm positive of it. Fuck this guy. He was killing and eating kids. And the kid, how Jeffrey Dahmer parallel is it where a 14-year-old kid who was being choked to death runs out of the fucking house? No doubt. That's what happened to Dahmer. The only difference is that kid didn't have a dad who would come over and beat the shit out of him and call

the cops. That guy had two cops that returned him to him. Exactly. It was different. If that guy had a dad in the neighborhood, this wouldn't have happened. If you like that story, you sick bastards, we love you for it. Couldn't love you more for that. What you can do to tell us all about that is please get on iTunes. Give us five stars.

It doesn't matter what you say. It's not for our egos. It is just for the business end of things. It's really, really helpful. iTunes and their damn funky algorithm. You can go to CrimeInSports.Threadless.com to get all of your merchandise needs. Check it out. We have all logos and

sayings and all sorts of cool stuff. Stuff you wouldn't think that we have. You can get a bath mat or a shower curtain that says you sir may fuck off on it. That's so funny. It's all there. So go there. Do that. Also live shows February the 18th.

If there's a couple tickets, or February 16th, a couple tickets left, I think, for the live podcast with Dan Cummins there in Detroit. But February the 18th in Boston, 1 p.m. at Laugh Boston is the live crime and sports show, or live small-town murder show. 4 p.m. is the live crime and sports show. These are not stand-up shows. This is the podcast, live, just just like this but in front of you. You bet. If you need to do even more than that, if you're a spectacular person like some of these people that we are going to talk about that are our heroes, goddammit, that keep this train moving along, you can make a one-time donation that we appreciate more than you could even imagine over at PayPal using our email address, CrimeAndSports at gmail.com. You can get a hold of us using that email address, CrimeAndSports at gmail.com, or by going to at MurderSmall on Twitter, SmallTownPod on Facebook.

Follow us. Do all of that. We put all our information out. But never mind that. Jimmy, why don't you tell us about all of these spectacularly wonderful hero, heroic super people that we have for you today. Hit us with that list, Jimmy. Our executive producers every week, it seems like, happen to be Chrissy Ann Costaldi and Jess Landgren. Thank you both very, very much. They're the best. Thank you, guys.

For everything you do for us. We can't thank you enough. A-R-M-U-I-R. That's a – M-U-I-R. ar mur or muir m-u-i-r that's a mere that fucking ruins me i'm not sure maydoc matthews lisa warren jolie uh vrabel who i pray to christ is is the wife or sister of mike i was gonna say mike i want her to be related because i've never heard the word i've never heard never heard vrabel, other than Jolie Vrabel and the linebacker. I want them to be related for sure. Jared Crooks, Jillian Shannon, Sabrina McGill, David Yachiu.

Bless you. You betcha. Louise, Deidre. She doesn't have a last name, Louise. It's just Madonna's sister, Louise. I'm not sure. Deidre Easter or Deidre? Deidre.

Deidre. Let's go Deidre. Jordan Rohrdy. Tyler Frazier. Joseph Trumbauer. Trumbauer, that's for sure. Jasmine Veal. You got that right. Anthony Perez. Ricky Dixon. That is a tough name. Yeah, Ricky Dixon sounds like

a linebacker. I'm pretty sure that's a woman as well because it's two K's and an I in Ricky. Ricky, you're bad. Appreciate you, Ricky. You're bad, Ricky. Nicole Rose, Benito Martinez, Christina Hambleton, Senga Robertson-Alberton. That's a good one. Oh, wow. That's a

name right there. She's a podcaster, I believe, Senga. Is she? Good for her. Thank you, Senga. Bolt Speedman Jr. I like that one a lot. Bolt Speed, Sanga. Hey, good luck. Bolt Speedman Jr. I like that one a lot. That's a good one. Bolt Speed, just names, just words. Bolt Speedman. You better be a runner, motherfucker, or a driver or something. Or something, or a superhero.

One of the three. Or a fucking cartoon character. Crystal Gennaro, Jessica Bretain, Connie and Sean Young. Thank you both. Thank you. Laura Castorena. Andrina? Andriana. That's it.

Adriana. There we go. It's Adriana or Adrina. That's the one. I don't know. Lipparelli. Something like that. Adriana Lipparelli, I'm sure.

Scott Harrigan with a K. I've never seen Scott spelled with a K ever, and it threw me. I was like, Scott? What the? Me neither. That's got to be Scott, right? S-K-O-T? I would think so

or scott i'm not sure shit i don't know skip spelled wrong what is he doing i'm not amy pohanik in denver sent us a uh a keon clark uh picture today thank you i appreciate it uh biggest dickus nope that's not a real name no that is not a real name but i really like what you're doing biggest that's fantastic uh and if it is your real name that is fucking brutal and yeah you're you've gone through it i'm sorry poor hannah risley matthew uh vanderford uh daniel martin uh colleen uh mcdonough colleen mcdonough colleen mcdonough there's You really? I'm being very specific with that. You really want to hone in on that. I'm trying.

Or McDonough? McDonough. That's probably what it is. You're right. That's absolutely it. It's McDonough. Amanda DeLong. Donald S. Trumpkins.

That's not real. No. No way that's real, right? No. Donald S. Trumpkins. I would say no. No. I'm going to go with no on that one.

Sammy Curtis. Aaron Sayre. Michelle Gerber-? No. Donald S. Trumpkins? I would say no. No. I'm going to go with no on that one. Sammy Curtis, Aaron Sayre, Michelle Gerber-Anderson, Heidi Nico, Scott Unruh? Unruh. Unruh. U-N-R-U-H. Have we done that before? I think it's Unruh. Probably. I don't know. Victoria Steen, Christina Rush.

No, Christine Rush. Sorry, Christine. Robin Francis, Zach Oberg, and his pup Lundy. They are fantastic by the way and that dog is fucking amazing. Sweet. Xander Myers, Greg Nelly, Pamela Swan. No, Sloan. That, by the way, Pamela Sloan is the original

Pamela. That's Pamela? Yeah. Hi, Pamela. Thank you, Pamela. Thank you, Pamela. Make everyone call you Pamela now, please. No, no, it's not Pamela. It's Pamela. Thank you. Tamara Strumminger, Mary Fow. It's Pamela. Thank you. Tamara Struminger. Mary Fowles. She donated twice.

Thank you, Mary. Thanks, Mary. Lindsay Lowe. Marinda Lynch. Genevieve Lynch, which, wow, two Lynches in a row. I'm not sure why that. That's probably just a coincidence. Common name.

But seeing a Genevieve Lynch donate to us feels great because there is a woman named Genevieve that I love. Allison Barnett, Marielle Rosas, Molly Kaiser, Molly Kaiser, that's it. Jennifer Provan, Madeline Lambert, Lamblet, God damn it.

I was going to try to blaze through them. Tom Blake, Don Halloways, Elizabeth Vane, Vett, Vetni, Vetni, Elizabeth Vetni, Ben Medlin, Tracy D'Aminato, Anthony Kaiser, Marjolein Spitzy, Guy Rilelli. No, Guy Rilell. Rilell. Riel. Fuck.

Rilou. Rilou. That's a U, not two L's. Fiona Bell, Karis Hunt, Melissa Allen. So thoughtful. Thank's a U, not two L's. Fiona Bell. Karis Hunt. Melissa Allen. So thoughtful. Thank you so much, Melissa. Sonia.

Sonia. Sonia Petraschik. Petraschik. Petrish. Petra Aschik. Petraschik. Oh, my. Yeah.

I'm not sure. Thank you both. Thank you both. Yeah. Very sweet of you. Thank you. Mariah Ruiz. Maria Ruiz. Not.

What the fuck? Maria Ruiz. Maria Ruiz. You, what the fuck? Maria Ruiz. Maria Ruiz. You turned Maria into Mariah? I don't know. Tony Clemente. Is that real? Tony Clemente?

Wasn't that a baseball player? That's Roberto Clemente you're thinking of. I don't know what I'm doing. Kelly McLaughlin. Thank you so much, Kelly. That was very nice of you. Ted Cyrus. Janet Holm.

Opticinicism blog. I don't know. I don't know. Check it out. Find the Opti-Cynicism blog and read that and find out if it's really great. I'm sure it is. Fallon Ray Art. She makes art, I imagine, Fallon Ray. So find her as well.

Emmy Dumont-Guthier. Faith Shia-shit. Shia-ravelo? Shia-ravelo. Shia-ravelo. Faith Shia- Shia-ravelo? Yep. Oh, shit. Shirovolo? Shirovolo. Shirovolo. Faith Shirovolo. Shirovolo? Yep.

Shirovolo. Shirovolo. Kara Flack. Thank you, Kara, for having an easy name. Anthony Collier. James Cook. Mary Tozon. Stacey Huffaker.

Again. Oh, yeah. They're awesome. Those are awesome. Thank you. We get them now, and they're so funny. Kathleen Thill. Super involved lately. Oh, she's great. Thank you. She donated twice also this week. Yeah, thanks a lot. Thank you, Kathleen. She's awesome. Those are awesome. We get them now, and they're so funny. Kathleen Thill is super involved lately.

Oh, she's great. Thank you. She donated twice also this week. Yeah, thanks a lot. Thank you, Kathleen. She's really cool. Josh Cole. She said Twix to Sarah, too.

Yeah, she did. She's great. Thank you. She's fantastic. Benito Martinez. I think I said that one twice, too. I don't know. It's an ethnic name, and I'm not good at this.

You're very lucky I pronounced that right. Andrew Jackson over here. Yeah. He's not going to pronounce it right. Seth Kuhl. Michelle Jolly is in us, too. He refuses to read the name of an Asian, by the way. Just refuses, flat out.

If he sees like Ron Kim, he's not reading that fucking name. It's not coming through. He's like, sorry, Pacific Rim. We'll take your money, but we're not fucking reading shit. Michelle Jolly in Australia. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks. Clifford Paquette, Candice Horner, Kat Oyala over in-

She's the best. She's terrific. Thank you, Kat. Hannah Higgins, Catherine Earle Mahoney, thank you so much. That was very nice. Pauline Kiriakos, Nason – no, Nason. What? That's Nicole Jason.

What am I doing? Matthew Vandervoort, Amanda Hostland, thank you so much. Julia Wheeling, Talioza Stevens. Is that what i did there i don't know what i did i wrote that talisa oh it's a c t-a-l-i-c-z-a i dare you talisa is that it i don't know ted ninkovich tamisha dorico jedediah suntimer uh jordan Cheeseman, Jennifer Ewart, Mavy Burke, James Graben, Ingrid Stoke over in Norway, Krista Fleischer, Adam Davies, Iris Price. Iris Price, yes. I was rice.

I was right. You were rice. I was rice. Aaron Sayer, Tanner Dick or Dyke. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm rice. Aaron Sayer, Tanner Dick or Dyke. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. Timothy Young, Victoria Steen, Kevin Teitelbaum, Elizabeth Payette, Sarah Gilbo. She's terrific, by the way.

Thank you so much, Sarah. Yeah, she's been around for a long time with us. She donates like so many times, too. Thank you. Sarah, you're terrific. Justine Desilich, Amanda Campbell, Behavior Resource LLC. I'm not sure what that is. Give them your money.

Buy something. Give them some business. Buy some behavior research. Go find out about Behavior Resources. Matthew Miller, Sandy Yu. There's the Asian one. Okay. Iona Nelson.

Thank you, Iona. Josh Cole, Autumn Allen, Mariah. God damn, Iona. Josh Cole. Autumn Allen. Mariah. God damn it. Mariah Menhir. I see her name all the time. Mariah Menhir. Thank you.

Big homie Dana Grayson also. And Kevin Wagner. The guy who sends snail mail money. Love it. It's the funniest donation ever. We love it, dude. Thank you, man. We get to the studio and there's an envelope with cash in it. It's so cool.

And it's hysterical. And a little note. We appreciate it, dude. You trust him so much cash in it. It's so cool. And it's hysterical. And a little note. We appreciate it, dude. You trust him so much. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. And thank all of you guys, really.

It's true. So much for this. We can't do it without you guys. We can't. We really can't. Getting to the studio is a fucking nightmare some days. You guys. And knowing that you guys really care is what gets us here.

You've changed our lives. I hope you know that. Yeah. It's not just, I mean, it's nice that we're – there's a point to this now to where we get money and stuff. That's horrific and all that. But you've changed our lives in other ways. You have no idea what you've done for our lives, for our careers and for our just general demeanors. You're opening doors for us that we couldn't open before.

No, that we tried. And it's because you guys are there listening and you give a shit and we appreciate it. That's the truth, man. So thank you guys so much for literally, quite literally changing our lives for the better. You really have. I lead a different life than I did two years ago. It's awesome. And it's because of you guys.

And so we can't thank you guys enough for all of that. All of that. And what if one of these people wanted to say thank a guy like you? How would they do that? How could they get a hold of you? You can tell me how much of an asshole I am. At Wisman Sucks. W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. I appreciate you guys following and playing along.

It really changes my life just having you guys around and letting us know that you're liking it. So thank you. And I am at Jimmy P is funny. You can find me there or try to copy and paste my last name from the show description. Don't try to spell it because there's an I in there and you won't be able to know where it is and you'll fuck it all up. It'll be a big disaster.

Follow us on social media, though. I really try. I really try to get back to everybody and I try my best and like, OK, quickly, quickly. Let me go over my schedule with you guys quick. OK, Sunday. Have my kids all day. They stay over. That's your day. That's my day. quick, okay? Sunday, have my kids all day. They stay over. That's your day.

That's my day. When they go to bed, I edit Crime and Sports. I edit Crime and Sports all night. I go to bed about 4.30 in the morning. I wake up at 5.30 in the morning, get my kids up, take them to school. I come home. I finish editing Crime and Sports because it takes goddamn forever. And then I start, you know what I start doing?

Picking out this week's cases, getting all of that. Tuesday morning, I wake up, know what I do when I check shit. And then I have to go pick my kids up from school because then I have them Tuesday and I have them. I edit Small Town Murder Tuesday night, get two hours of sleep, take the kids to school in the morning. Then we're in Wednesday. I come home. I finish editing. I have to put out that because I have to upload and write a description and a title.

Same thing as Monday night. I had to do that with Crime and Sports. Then it's Wednesday night. Guess what we're in? We're in the hard swing for Saturdays coming up to record. So I'm in the midst of fucking researching while I'm editing something. And then Thursday is all research and Friday is all research. And Saturday we're here.

I wake up on two hours sleep, come to the studio, and I'm here. And people are like, why don't you respond to my shit on Facebook? And I would love to. And I don't mean to be a dick. It would be so much better. I would love to respond to your shit on Facebook. But literally, there's times where I'm like, I need two hours of not anything to do with these fucking shows. James is so regretting telling you guys 10,000 reviews

and you'll get a bonus episode. Oh man, Jesus Christ. Plus now we have, P.S. I hate this movie coming back this week. I am fucked. Live shows coming. That's the other thing. Live shows. I'm doing my best. What I mean to say after all that is I love you guys and thank you for talking to me because

I appreciate it so much and I know that you don't have to talk to me. Right. And I really love you guys for it, and so does Jimmy. We appreciate the fuck out of this, man. Just acknowledging our existences. So thank you guys for everything. Here's my schedule.

I'm going to go home from here. I'm going to go home and slow stroke until next Saturday. Oh, that's not bad, Jimmy. That's pretty good. That's pretty good shit. I like that. That's an idea right there. And in between finishing, I'll write some messages back to people on all kinds of social media.

And they're too, like, I have to, like, see my wife and, you know, have a nice relationship and, like, actually play with my kids and not focus on this. It's tough, man. Plan some outings and shit. That's the thing. But, guys, thank you for all of that. Really, honestly, we can't do it without you. Keep coming back and listening every single week because we're not going anywhere. God damn it.

We can't go anywhere. We're contractually obligated to be here. We can go to Boston. We can go to Detroit. We will go to Boston. We will go to Detroit. And so many other places. So many other places, but not right now.

We'll do that then. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey guys, I just want to tell you real quick, web support is brought to you by webinwriter.com. If you're looking to build a website, go over to webinwriter.com. They build websites that look great on all screens, graphics, logos, engaging content. Go over to webinwriter.com or go over to facebook.com slash webinwriter. They'll build you an unbelievable website at a very fair rate. They'll build you a very great website.

Go see them, webinwriter.com. I'll build you a very great website. Go see them. Webinrider.com. Most people think Hawaii is pretty wonderful, but most people don't find changing planes quite so wonderful. Hawaiian Airlines is on it. We're now flying nonstop from Long Beach to Honolulu and nonstop from Oakland to Kauai.

And we're flying advanced new Airbus A321neo aircraft. We're talking a modern, fuel-efficient marvel of aviation technology here. The plane matters, and so does the airline. Choose well. Find our best fares at hawaiianairlines.com. ADT can design and install a smart home just for you, backed by 24-7 protection. A new smart home at

your service, customized for your lifestyle. Set up custom automations unique to your home to automatically do the things like lock the doors or set the thermostat when you leave. Even close your garage door from virtually anywhere. ADT will set up your home with multiple smart home devices and security features like indoor and outdoor cameras, locks, lights, and garage door control, even video doorbells. Visit ADT.com slash podcasts to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery

Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more.

Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, Thank you.