Small Town Murder - #57 - Four Murders & A Getaway in Amherst, Virginia

Episode Date: February 14, 2018

This week, in the quaint town of Amherst, Virginia, a death in the family causes an even bigger unforeseen tragedy, ten years later, that leaves four people murdered, in about as cold blooded a way as possible. It's a crazy one! Along the way, we find out how the town of "Lynchburg" may have gotten its name, whether jealously is a justifiable cause for murder, and how long someone will wait in the car, while you murder four people!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Yes. All the links are in the show description. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week, we look at the sleepy town of Amherst, Virginia, where a death causes a family to splinter until even more tragedy occurs. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so, so, so, so much for joining us this week. We're pumped and excited, as usual. Got to get right into it, because as usual, it's a jam-packed episode.

It is. Full of murder and craziness and everything else. As you heard up front on the commercial there, tour coming up, so please get those tickets. I'm so excited. All those cities. Portland on 420. That's ridiculous. That's just a ridiculous place to be at a ridiculous time.

This week, though, this week coming up in the next couple days, this weekend, Boston. Fuck yes. Get your tickets. Get them now. They might be sold out at this moment because we're selling. There's only one show left. You better hurry up. The 1 p.m. show for Small Town Murder.

The 7 o'clock is sold out. 4 p.m. Crime and Sports has a few left too. Possibly, I don't know, get them. Right now they might not be there so try it out. It's going to be close. It's going to be close so get on in there and what you can do is you should wear a certain outfit there.

You can get your shirts to wear there. You can do that at crimeandsports.threadless.com. Right. Get all of your small-town murder and crime and sports merchandise needs. Right. T-shirts and sweatshirts and bath mats and everything you could want. Coffee mugs. Thank you guys for...

So ridiculous. So ridiculous. Thank you guys for all of your iTunes reviews this week. Yes. We appreciate the hell out of it. It's crazy. We went over the 10,000 mark. Yeah.

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Thank you guys for everything you do. Honestly, we cannot thank you enough for everything. If you can't get enough, we have this. We have crime and sports, obviously, you should be listening to. I don't know why you're not. Don't say, I don't like sports. Doesn't matter. Don't have to like sports.

You like us talking about morons? That's what it is. That's the truth. Same thing as this. And also, if you want to hear me complain about things, you can do that by listening to P.S. I Hate This Movie with myself and my wife, Sarah Hunt, and we make fun of bad romantic comedies, and it's a really good time, and I get super angry very often. So if you enjoy that.

And also, I have a little addendum, a little bow to add to the top of last week's rant on podcasters who take themselves way too seriously. A couple of them crawled out of the woodwork this week and the past week. And we'll discuss that at the end. But we won't clog that up. We won't clog the show up with that. That'll be at the end. We will make fun of idiots, as usual. Well, we'll make fun of idiots through the whole show.

Sure. And then we'll make fun of more idiots at the end. With an exclamation point. Yeah, with a big, fat exclamation point and idiots through the whole show. Sure. And then we'll make fun of more idiots at the end. With an exclamation point. Yeah, with a big fat exclamation point and a nice tight, tidy bow. That said, it's time to do the thing we have to do every week, the disclaimer. Yeah. Have to do the disclaimer. Guys, listen.

We're all in a car right now. We are on the way to rob a liquor store. Yes. Okay? All of you. You're in the car, too. You might be in the backseat, but you're in the car. This is the point where you have to say, hmm, if they go in and shoot this small Korean

woman right in the head and splatter her brains all over the cartons of Marlboros behind the counter, if that happens, I am a murderer. So I don't know if I want to be involved in this. Right. This is the point where we pull up to a red light. You need to hop out if you don't think that crime, you don't think that true crime and comedy ever belong together. This is the point where hop out at the red light.

I'm sorry. Run. No one will get killed. It's not that horrible. I promise you won't see brains on Marlboros. But some people just think that true crime and comedy don't ever go together. And to those people, we say, have a good one. See you later.

Go away. You're not going to like it. Let the adults have their fun. Yes, because we're not going to make fun of the victims. We don't make fun of the victims' families. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. It's true. Have a good time.

Sit back. Relax, because it's time for us to shut up and give you murder. So let's do it right now. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. We're starting back at the top. We're not going to go in any particular order. I'm not going to redo the states in the same order. Just another random thing.

Random pick out of the hat. Random pick out of the hat. Random pick out of the hat. I had the whole country to choose from. It was glorious. I felt such freedom. I really did. I sat there. I was like, look at this big, beautiful map. I can do whatever I want. The whole country, the whole world, but if I want to do the U.S., I'm not

confined to three states that I've put off till the end because they're terrible. You know what I mean? We're not doing that. No, we're going from Hawaii. Yeah. Pack it up. From beauty, from enjoyment, from fishing on the beach. Put away your stupid shirts.

Throw your flip flops away because you're not going to need them. And we're flying all the way. What do I do with this straw hat? It's right in the garbage. Fucking burn it. Just burn it. Find a homeless person on the beach and put it over their face while they nap. Just there you go.

Block it from the sun. Help them out. There's some shade, sir. Help the homeless. And it smells nice. We're going all the way to Amherst, Virginia. I don't even know where the fuck that is. It's in Virginia. You know where that is. You know East and West Virginia, like you were saying, and South Virginia. And then there's that North one. Well, we did know that East and West of the Carolinas were never together, but the Virginias were. We know that. Amherst, Virginia, going all the way there.

What a nice little town this is, I guess. I guess. I don't know. It looks like a nice little, I don't know, it looks like in a movie where you'd be like, oh, this is a small town in the USA. I don't know how nice it is, actually. And you'll see where it's close to. Maybe it's not the best place.

I'm not positive. Like where Lil Abner was raised? Like that shit? We'll talk about it. Is that Kitty Hawk? Was that what it best place. I'm not positive. Like where Lil Abner was raised? Like that shit? We'll talk about it. Was that Kitty Hawk? Was that what it was called? I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know either.

I'm not sure. I watched that movie a lot when I was a kid. It was fucking embarrassing. Whatever it was on TV. Yeah, it was a terrible movie. This is on two in the afternoon on regular TV. This will be a good movie. On a Wednesday.

That's when they put the best cinema on usually is two o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon during the summer. It's all like taboo fucking or something. Some shit. I think that's what that story is about. Like, you're not supposed to fuck that person, but Will Abner will. In that, in whatever that, this movie's defense, you think a lot of movies are about that that aren't about that.

So, you know. Everything is taboo fucking. Yeah. You should have heard what he said about like the Flintstones movie in the 90s. He said, just taboo fucking, man. Taboo fucking. That's all it is. I was like, how did you get that?

That's all it is. The whole thing is taboo fucking. Taboo, man. That's right. So Amherst, Virginia, it's in the dead center of the state. Right smack, boom, in the middle. Right in the middle of a pan. So no excuses.

No reason to be hillbillies here. Can't say I'm in the panhandle. I can't help myself. None of that shit. You're right in the middle. Virginia's not enough of an excuse. Get your head out of your ass. God damn it.

And it's really in the middle of nowhere. It's a small town in the middle of everything. It's not a suburb of shit. It's two hours to Richmond, an hour and a half to Roanoke, 25 miles southeast of Lexington, a half to Roanoke, 25 miles southeast of Lexington, 44 miles from Charlottesville, where we had our marching people with the- The fucking, the tiki torch white people. So that's a little frightening there that that's taking place. So here's a question though, what is the capital of Virginia?

Is it Lexington? Oh, it is Richmond. Okay, Richmond, all right. And that's 20 miles from Appomattox, which is the Civil War, end of the Civil War site. So you have the end of the Civil War and then where 160 years later, white people got pissed and were mad about that happening right there. So it's a very – this area has got a lot of – it's spinning. It's got its own perpetual emotion, I feel like. And 13 miles, I just like this, away from Lynchburg, which is where I think that's Jack Daniels, right?

Isn't that where they make Jack Daniels? No, that's in Kentucky. That's in Tennessee. Tennessee, yes. Yeah, you're right. Lynchburg, Virginia is here. Why do I see Kentucky on the front of the bottle in my head? It might be Kentucky.

It's Tennessee. It's for sure Tennessee. Who the fuck cares? But when you have a southern town named Lynchburg, that makes it bad. Where'd that name come from, I wonder? That's scary. Some dude named Lynch that did horrible shit. Yeah, they were like, well, this is the- Isn't that how lynching became?

Because it was a dude that did it? This is the lynching center of the county is how we do it, and we're going to call it Lynchburg. Fantastic. It's the cultural lynching center. It's where we do our, and we're going to call it Lynchburg. Fantastic. It's the cultural lynching center. Be proud. It's where we do our finest lynching. It's just a... We've got to be proud of our heritage. Proud of our lynching heritage.

Heritage is the worst. That word has such a racial conotone to it now. It's such a terrible word. If you ever tell me I'm proud of my heritage, I know that you say the N-word in your personal time. And it's funny, because people used to just say that word just in terms of... For anything. If they were Polish, they'd be like, I'm proud of my heritage. I know that you say the N-word in your personal time. And it's funny because people used to just say that word just in terms of for anything. If they were like Polish, they'd be like, I'm proud of my heritage.

I eat pierogies all the time and shit. But now it's interesting. You are a racist, sir. Somehow we got, well, because we've talked about Lynchburg. That's how we got to racism and Appomattox and Charlottesville. And because we're in Virginia. Good Lord. Okay.

Never mind. God damn it, Virginia. You're rubbing off on us. We don't want to talk about this stuff. We just got here. Yeah, we don't want to talk about this stuff in Virginia. Good Lord. Okay. Never mind. God damn it, Virginia. You're rubbing off on us. We don't want to talk about this stuff. We just got here. Yeah, we don't want to talk about this stuff, Virginia. You're bringing it up. Amherst County.

It's in. Very creative, again. Yeah. The south. Town named after the county. How many of these small towns are named after counties? It's fucking 30% at minimum. Katie Heisel will make a chart on Twitter.

One of our listeners. She makes amazing charts on Twitter. Fucking graphic. She charts everything. She makes our listeners, she makes amazing charts on Twitter. Fucking graphic. She charts everything. She makes graphs. They're amazing. It's incredible. That one where she plotted where each episode went next.

Yeah, that was pretty wild. And the state was highlighted. That was pretty cool. From episode one to today. It was fucking amazing. That was cool. She's great. Thank you.

Zip code 24521. Area code 434. So watch out for that. that popping up on your phone. Five square miles in total, this town. Just a little five square miles of mid-central Virginia land here. The county motto, the town doesn't have a motto because they're lazy, I guess. I don't know. They were too lazy to figure one out.

And we found out, by the way, how a lot of these towns get mottos this week. I heard about this. This is amazing. It's fucking incredible. Somebody emailed us, and we won't give names, but somebody emailed us, and they worked for a marketing company where basically these small towns hire marketing companies so they can get people to come through and drive through their fruit stand twice a week. How fucking – So they hire these marketing companies, and this person was like, yeah, I'd bang out like four of those slogans a week for these fucking small towns. That's why they're all kind of the same.

Right. Because literally there's a team of people banging out four or five slogans a week, pumping them out to the USA, and then we're putting them out going, what are these idiots? What were they thinking when they had this slogan? They weren't. How fucking, how devoid of any sort of creativity can you be to hire somebody in a fucking big city somewhere that's never been in your town? Have a contest where the town participates. Who gives a shit? If it's going to be random, chosen by anybody anyway, at least say, hey, it's cute. Our kids picked it rather than this.

I hope that this wasn't a, I don't think a marketing company came up with this. We're way off. This is Dieu Amandois. That is it. Huh? Which is French, I believe, for God and my right. Jesus. Which is also the motto of the British monarch.

Really? Yes. So there's all sorts of shit there. So they stole it, first of all. They stole it. There's God mixed in there. They're knocking off royals. It's a fucking mess.

God and rights like that. I don't like that in the South. That is terrifying. And then you add in that's the British monarch and it's in French, which takes it the other way. Right. What is wrong with you guys? It's a wig douchebags all around. That's all it is.

That is an awful one. That might be the worst. That might be the worst. That's terrible. That's possibly the worst one. History of this town. Native Americans, obviously, were the first people to be here. Duh.

I mean, that's everywhere that we talk about. That sign, as you come into the town, it would just be much more fitting if it just said, you better be white. Does that say it's Detroit on the end there? Droit? What the hell does that mean? That's what you'd hear. It should just say, you better be white.

They'd be super pissed off driving around the South looking at fucking french signs what the hell's going on here fuck is this uh so anyway uh the people there the native americans were hunters and fishing and all that was a big deal there uh the virginia colony though established in 1607 yeah so pretty damn early this is this is this is uh ground zero america here right here. This is all that's wrong with it bubbling right from – this is America's ball sack just teeming with whatever it's going to spread throughout the rest of the country here. That's exactly what it is. If you don't wash it, it gets nasty. You bet your ass it does. It gets real nasty and just grimy and sandy and it smells like onions.

There's some balls of things in there. It's very weird. Terrible. So they had trading posts between 1710 and 1720. 1730, people started moving in here to the Amherst County area. They wanted land. They wanted to grow tobacco, damn it. We need to come here and grow tobacco.

And this is fertile tobacco growing country around here. Amherst was founded in 1807. They originally called it the Oaks and also Seven Oaks. Nobody can decide on the fucking name of a town. How many towns do we cover again where it's like, it's just what the hell, man?

And they only have seven oak trees there, so you're going to call it the Seven Oaks? And somebody else argued, what about that oak? And they were like, that's too far off the thing. We're only counting these seven. And they were like, no, there's eight oaks. And someone said that. They're grouped together. No, but he said it's not a group because this one's 10 feet off the thing and technically.

And so they said, fine, just the oaks. We won't count them. All right, asshole? And they finally said, fuck. And then that argument just got to the point where they were like, Amherst. Right. That's the one. Enough of this shit here.

And it originally also was just a stagecoach station on the Charlottesville-Lynchburg Road. Really? So another town that just began as a small little stop off. Like a fucking camp. Is pretty much still the same. Hasn't really gotten to be more than that. Just a little town here. It was at this time here around the turn of the century from 1718 hundred that they decided to rename

this town. Got to rename it. They renamed it in honor of the French and Indian war hero Jeffrey Amherst. Oh the first baron of Amherst. Oh so bewigged douchebag. So again fucking towns and their bewigged douchebag. A guy that slaughtered Indians and that's what you named him. He was the he was the hero of the Battle of Ticonderoga.

Hero. Hero. Hero, goddammit. So anyway, general charter assembly to the town was granted in 1950. We have the Sahara Desert Fart Fact of the Week. Oh, it's dry. It's arid. Just a breeze coming through. The official town seal, oh boy, was created by Ward Cruia, who's a commercial artist from Ohio.

His original proposal featured a sleeping giant, which is the Blue Ridge Mountain ridgeline west of Amherst. But this was rejected since it represented an area that's not inside the town's limits. So according to town legend, a group was in the clerk's office in the town hall talking about the topics of the day. And they looked, as it said they looked eastward along east court street and it was suggested that the amherst courthouse be the model for the official seal and there's there was a large a attached to the radio antenna beside the tower and uh so then the a then that's what it looks like now that's the fact so if you look at the town seal a bunch of guys are sitting around dicking off in a clerk's office going did you

see what she's wearing? Oh, my God. I saw them feeling each other up in the diner. Look at that. And they said, that's the seal. Look outside the window, y'all. It's perfect. It's perfect.

It has an A on it. Hit this guy with his queer mountains. Get him out of here. Where is he from? Ohio? Get him out of here. Nobody wants his mountains. The guy was from Ohio and never been to the town probably, right?

Probably not. He was just like they got mountains, right? They got fucking mountains there? Throw that mountains on his breath. I'd draw you a sleeping giant in those fucking mountains. I'm from Ohio. What do you want from me? That's exactly what this is. That's what they said in Ohio. Hey, what do you want?

From Dayton fucking Ohio. You got a problem with me? Come on. I'll draw you a seal like nobody's fucking business. Nobody draws seals like I draw a seal. You don't think I could do it? I'll put a fucking sleeping giant in that fucking thing. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you, you doubting that I could make a seal for you?

Wait a second. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. Hold on. Hold on. You don't think I could look out eastward, mind you. I could look past you, stupid A. I could see the beautiful, majestic, blue ridge fucking mountains in the distance. You don't think I could put them on a seal, make it look better than your piece of shit, A?

I'll give you the back of my fucking hand so fast. I'm going back to Ohio. Eat shit. Fuck your A. Fuck your A. Fuck this place. I'm out of here. Let go.

Unbelievable. So the courthouse is a big deal too. They built the original courthouse in 1809. They tore it down in 1872 and built a new one. And that's kind of the one that's still there. All of the records have been stored in the courthouse since 1761.

Oh boy. And nobody's stolen them or anything. They haven't had a war. They've still got them back to 1761. 1761 they have the records. moved them from fucking matter to nobody nobody courthouse to courthouse but i guess if you're looking through your family history or if you wanted to do that it wouldn't help for me but if you're from this country but yeah hoarders yeah hoarding assholes that shit in the garage there's a bunch of dead cats under the folders and shit like i know we found another dead cat like they do all the time on every damn

time there's several if you if you ever watch hoard, that's the game you have to play is you have to bet ahead of time before they go through the door. Over, under, on how many cats? Over, under, on dead cats. That's the thing. You can throw live ones in there, too, but we just go corpses. How many are they going to find? We're going to go with four today. Four.

We're going with four. Fully petrified. Mummified and preserved. So many. Amherst doesn't have an emergency room no so good luck with that what the fuck how they're 14 miles from anything resembling you can go to uh centra's lynchburg general hospital if you need an emergency room holy shit so tough shit there you better fucking hope to christ you can make what is it 30 miles hope you don't have a sprinkler key stuck in your

temple you know that's just because i don't hear a deep shit key stuck in your temple. Because I know you're in deep shit. You are fucked. But I hope it's a minor wound. I hope you're not bleeding out. Yeah, because you're going to have a problem. You have a tourniquet and you've got a comfortable ride. That's a long fucking ride. That's a long ride.

Pack it in. Jesus. That's terrible, man. Bring a pillow. Get comfortable back there. Notable people from this town, not a lot. A guy named black herman oh black herman was an african-american stage magician my god during the jim crow laws era wow so i he did a

lot of i'm sure a lot of tap dancing and shit like that and don't lynch me the jim crow era that's terrifying and his name was black herman so he you know i i don't know if he played to black audiences or if he came out and was, you know, don't hang me. Oh, white guy in black face. Oh, God, let's hope he wasn't a black. Oh, Jesus. That would be horrific. That would be terrible.

Around the Jim Crow era, it makes sense, though. Jesus. And Jimmy Walker, not Dynamite Jimmy Walker, an ex-basketball player for the Pistons Rockets. Oh, great. And the ABA, too, in the 70s. In 1930, there was 876 people in this town. Wow. So not a lot.

It's still a very, very small town. And in 1990, 60 years later, only 1,060 people. Jesus. They're like, no change, God damn it. Old people sit on porches and drink lemonade, and they will forever. God damn it. And the same old people. They'll be 300 years old, and they'll just stay there.

Nothing. Reminiscent about the good old days. The children don't grow here. Right. They don't grow old. They're born eight and they stay eight. And that's it. They're born eight.

They're born eight and they stay eight. Oh, they're poor mothers. That's it. Well, you know what? That's the price you pay. Yeah. That's the price you pay. You want to live in Virginia?

That's what you do. Sorry. Population here, it's funny because it has boomed since 1990, but boomed for this town. Now it has 2,210 people. Wow. So it's doubled since 1990, which these southern towns, people come from the north and everything's cheap here. Great. Let's buy it and make it more expensive and stay. And, you know, nobody wants us here and we don't want to be here. Yay. Let's be here. Let's do it. I don't get it. My dad did that. He moved to North Carolina. I was like, they don't like to be here. Yay, let's be here. Let's do it. I don't get it. My dad did that. He moved to North Carolina.

He was like, they don't like you here. What are you here for? This is terrible. What are we here for? What's the problem? It's southern New York. That's how he feels. Yeah, I guess so.

We're going to take this over. That's like how people feel with Canada. Whenever things get shitty here, we're going to go ahead and annex that. We'll take that. I think they might have something to say about that. That's how the New Yorkers are about the South. It's kind of fucked up up here. We ruined it.

The roads are all bumpy and shit. We're coming down there. We're coming down there. And then when the shit, when your weather gets bad, we're going to go right the fuck back. Any pizza now? No, we're going to open up some pizza. That's the first thing we need. We're going to need some pizza around here.

You people eat like shit. I got it. It's outside of barbecue. They really do. It's not great. The South is garbage food. Except for like their bars. Some of it can be really great. There's some great shit. But like I found out about Burgoo. They really do. It's not great. The South is garbage food. Except for like their bars. Some of it can be really great.

There's some great shit. But like, I found out about Burgoo. No ethnic food. That shit isn't real. No ethnic food. That's not good. No.

It's just no ethnic food. That's what it is. Don't try to get Italian or Chinese or anything like that. Some white people just keep cooking for years and get creative. Median age in this town.

You guys need some black people and Chinese people. Oh, yeah. Oh, you need all those people. We'll find out in a minute who's going to be there. We don't know who's there yet. That's a good point. No clue. Median age. That's true. Median age in. Oh, yeah. Oh, you need all those people. We'll find out in a minute who's going to be there. Okay. We don't know who's there yet. That's a good point.

No clue. Median age. You got a good point. That's true. Median age in this town, 47.9. So it's about 10 years older than the average. So it's an older town as a lot of these southern towns are. They're kind of people leave.

Younger people leave. Older people move there. Yeah. It's that sort of thing. Female and male populations right on the money. It's about 51% female. Married population slightly less on the money. It's about 51% female. Married population, slightly less than the average. It's about 45% here, which I assume that's because there's a little bit higher of a widow population. I think that's where you got. You got a little bit

older people here, that sort of thing. A lot of people single with no children, almost 18%. That's about double the average. So if you're single, no children, and you to party with some uh some elderly you want to party with get down with the elderly town here steal a couple of their pills i wonder if that's elderly too it's probably the widows they're out on the test single no children oh boy the the elderly bar scene here is can you imagine not having any kids ever and then just being old and and have nobody take care of you well maybe their kids are gone maybe they've outlived their kids. Who the hell knows? That's a good point. Another thing you never know.

Race of this town, 71% white. Like a lot of the southern towns, actually some black people in it. 20.62% black. Wow, that's great. One of the few towns we've had that have over the 12% average. Asians, though, you're not getting any restaurants. 0.27% Asian. Wowza.

That is well below the 5% average here uh and uh hispanic 3.37 percent so you know it's some bland it's white and black it's it's the south you know it's that sort of thing here religion weird for a southern town for only 41 percent of the people here are religious okay which is 50 is the average and in the south it's usually 70 and hence you know. The one was like 79 or some crazy shit in Alabama or something. 0.57% Catholic. Jesus. And it'll play that Catholic shit down here. They don't want anything to do with it.

None of that shit. No, Baptists are the Catholics of the South, as we know. Baptists, Catholics of the South. And they are, and they are down here. That's where they are. 0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim, obviously. That makes sense. That's not going to happen down here. That's where they are. 0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim. Obviously, that's not going to happen down here. Now, voting

wise, we're going to get about 40% Democrat, about 60% Republican basically. So it's Central Virginia. It's more conservative. Virginia is actually, you know, that flips back and forth now, but not in the central parts. That's in the cities and by the colleges it flips. Right. Get the

college involved and all of a sudden you've got some progressive forward thinking people. It stays the same as we know. It's like we said. Everything's pretty the same. Status quo's fine with us. Absolutely. And if not us, but them. That's yes.

Not us as we say. We say us. That's a character. Not us personally. Not me. Household income here is about $10,000 under the national average here. It's about $43,000 down here. And a lot of times it's small towns.

It's just less like that because it's usually cheaper to live, as we're going to find out here. Jobs, a lot of manufacturing jobs, more than normal. Not a lot of construction jobs, I would have thought, actually. Less retail trade, that sort of thing. Yeah, the jobs are a lot of health care because there's older people. That sort of thing here. Food services is a little higher than normal. Now, cost of living overall, as we do, 100 is par average.

Cost of living is 84 here. So not too bad. Health care is a little high. Utilities are very high. But housing is 64. Jesus. Pretty cheap to live there here. Not bad at all.

The median home cost is $118,058. That's not awful. Not awful. $185,000 is the national average, so that's not too shabby at all here. Most of the houses, as we'll find, like you look at between, it's like 60% of the houses are between $100,000 and $200,000. 60%. 60% of the houses are between $100,000 and $200,000. 60%. 60% of the houses.

And then another 25% of them are between $200,000 and $300,000. So it's, you know, average kind of blue collar, middle of the road kind of place. Not a lot of... Affordable. Affordable. And how affordable is it? Well, let's find out. And if we've convinced you to move here, we're going to find out with the Amherst, Virginia

Real Estate Report. We have a two-bedroom apartments there on the average is about $660 a month. That's great. That's not bad at all. It's about $400 less than the national average. I found a lovely three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,000-square-foot brick home. Yeah. Very nice. Yard is nice. Well-kept. Green.

Yeah. Very nice brick. $179,900. Wow. Very reasonable for what it is. Sweet house. Nicely done on the inside. Found a nice house to stretch out on here.

You've done well. You want to move down and annex a piece of Virginia for yourself from the north. You got a big stake in Tiki Torches. That's right. I found a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,900-square-foot beauty sitting on three and a half acres of pristine land for $244,900. That's great. That's a steal. Not bad.

And the house is nice on the inside, too. It's not a shit box. And finally, if you just want to pitch a pitch a tent and live in the beautiful Virginia wilderness, I found a one point one acre of land here. A lot on Boxwood Farm Road in Amherst for fourteen thousand nine hundred ninety nine bucks. Put it on the credit card. Not too shabby. Somebody gives you could do it tomorrow. Get down there and do that. Things to do in town.

Oh, my goodness. February 24th. Don't miss the women's ministry brunch. Oh, got to get there 24th. Don't miss the Women's Ministry Brunch. Oh. Got to get there. Yeah. Even if you're a guy, get down there. Get you some Jesus.

Get you some Jesus and orange juice. Oh, boy. Please join Molly Harmon at her home for a brunch and Bible study, exclamation point. I will not. We would love, wood is misspelled, by the way. Is it W-O-O-D? No, it's W-O-Y-L-D. Wowza.

Which, okay, at least the U and the Y are next to each other. But check. We would love to invite you, spelled wrong with a U, invoot you, invoot a friend who needs fellowship. So basically take someone along, not who would

be interested, who needs it. If we need to bitch at somebody, you bring them and we're going to tell them what the fuck they're doing wrong. I don't have time to reread what I just wrote in a public invitation. Nope. You have that many typos. How do you do that? It's two sentences and you fucked up two words.

Both. That's awful. Both sentences are ruined. Awful. Terrible. In October of this year. You wrote for two, Molly. Jesus, Molly.

Get your shit together. I don't trust you. So October. In October of that year, make your plans now. That's why I'm telling you this, because it's going to be exciting. I want you to mark your calendars and make travel arrangements. The Amherst Apple Harvest Festival is coming in October. Fantastic.

And also the 27th Annual Virginia Wine and Garlic Festival. That actually sounds great. Which does not sound bad. Virginia Wines, live entertainment, arts, crafts, and garlic! Yeah. Exclamation point capitalized. How do you enjoy garlic? I don't know. How do you do that? Garlic flavored things.

Apparently it was first place in Lynchburg's Living 2016-17 Best Festival or Event. Wow. So get down there. Crime rate. What we're interested in in this lovely, lovely town. I'm still shocked. How do you have a festival around garlic? Do you have chunks of garlic and you just sample it? Some people do that.

I'm going to assume that it's foods that are garlic-based. Like a garlic... Garlic bread? Garlic chicken. Chinese garlic chicken. They make that. Or just every Italian dish, maybe. There's a garlic...

Call it the Italian festival. Garlic and olive oil. If it's garlic and wine, it sounds as Italian as it gets. That's what I mean. I don't know who's putting this on down there. There's like three guineas going, we got this. You're so wrong. It's all right.

We got this. No problem. We'll take care of it. We'll put this together. It's all right. No, no, no, no. We can make you guys look all inclusive and that you embrace ethnic shit. What are you making there, a casserole?

Get the fuck out of here. We'll take care of this. You know what you're doing. Crime rate in this town, property crime, is about 20% lower than the average. So leave your windows open, I guess. They are not going to steal your shit. But you might want to close them because violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Rushmore of violence and assholery is 10% higher than the national average.

So they're too busy killing you to steal your shit. They're too dumb to steal your shit after they've murdered you here. That's what I'm gathering from that. They don't rifle through your pockets while you bleed out. No, they don't. Damn, you lazy bastards. You lazy son of a bitches. If I'm going to bleed out and die for you, at least make my fucking wallet. At least make my family members cancel my credit cards.

Thank you. At least have the common courtesy to do that. Lazy sons of bitches. Let's talk about some folks who resided in Amherst, Virginia, shall we? Let's talk about Douglas MacArthur Buchanan. Okay. That's a very, first of all, Douglas MacArthur. That's a very Civil War name.

Well, Douglas MacArthur is a World War II general, and it's MacArthur, so they gave him that middle name. It's a very Civil War-sounding name, though. Yeah, it does sound like a general. It sounds like the guy who MacArthur was descended from. Like, that's his grandfather. My grandfather, Douglas MacArthur Buchanan, led the 43rd Virginia Infantry. His middle name is MacArthur? MacArthur, because his first name is Douglas.

Right. Douglas MacArthur. It's awful. So he's a married guy. We'll talk about him in the 60s. He gets married. He's a married man. He has a son in 1969.

His son's name is Douglas Jr., which you had to pass that on. You had to pass Douglas MacArthur Buchanan on. And we know about juniors and anyone who names their kid a junior. Suspect right away. Absolutely. Right away. I don't know. You're going to be a lineup somewhere somewhere the entire crime and sports catalog and find out why that is uh so yeah he's uh he's married they have a son in 1969 uh as we go through the 70s uh they have

some problems the husband and the wife yeah here um now i found and i'm not sure this i can't be positive if this is them but i found uh a couple of, Jesus Christ, I was digging through 1970s newspapers here. And I found some, thank you, patreon.com slash crime and sports. That's how we buy this shit. I'm going through all these old newspapers and I'm trying to find things and I found in Tampa, in Tampa, Florida, in a Tampa newspaper, Douglas MacArthur Buchanan and his wife, who was the same name as his wife, filing for divorce. Different people though. I don't know.

It might be the same people because they might have lived in Tampa at that point and moved up to Virginia. Not saying it is, but I know they had problems and this would make sense too because this was in 1974, which would make perfect sense because that's around when the problems were happening. Got it. So we don't know if they were in Virginia or Florida at that point. They moved from Tampa to Virginia.

Yes. They enjoy the white trash scenery. Well, at least they didn't move to Jacksonville or something. Sorry. Someone asked us, are we coming to Jacksonville? No. No. Not at all.

Not coming to Jacksonville. My dad lived there and then moved out, and that's the last time a Whistler will be there. Yeah, I'm not going to Jacksonville. Sorry. We might go somewhere in Florida, but you're going to have to get out of the panhandle. Sorry. Go toward the pan. But that's the opposite side of the panhandle.

That state is just two panhandles. It is. It's two panhandles. Connected. Jesus, no wonder why it sucks. Somebody welded two panhandles together. Fucking Florida. Jesus Christ. We will come to Florida Somebody welded two panhandles together. Fucking Florida. Jesus Christ.

We will come to Florida at some point. That's next round of dates. More East Coast stuff. I can't believe I never noticed that. It's too good? Anytime anybody says they're in the panhandles of Florida. Which one, dickhead? It's all one handle.

Two panhandles. Which one? It's one crooked handle because two are welded together. Yeah, it's awful. That's why it's bad. What do you expect? It's a state of all pan handle. That's why it all sucks.

Normally there has to be a pan to have a pan handle, but they figured out a way to have nothing but handle. They got rid of the pan. Fuck the pan. We don't need the pan. We got so much handle. Georgia can keep the pan. We don't want none of that. You stay north, Georgia, with your pan. We got your handle covered. We can keep the pan. We don't want none of that. You stay north, Georgia, with your pan.

We got your handle covered. We're all handle, baby. That's all we want down here. So in the late 70s, 76-ish, 77, Douglas Sr.'s wife here gets breast cancer. So they don't end up getting a divorce in the end, or they end up staying together. I don't know if the cancer made it so, you know, I don't know. I figured at that point. So you'd feel like a dick if he left?

I was going to say at that point, you'd be like, oh, you know, let's see how the cancer works out. Right. If we're going to, you know, then we'll work on our paperwork and shit like that. But for now, let's make sure I get to live first. Right. Why don't we do that? Or at least, I mean, this way it's a lot less paperwork for that divorce.

Or in an entirely less cynical way, which is always ridiculous because it's not true because everything is the most cynical. Maybe her getting cancer made them realize how much they loved each other and they came together.

Fuck, you never know. I highly doubt it, though. Let's be honest here. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, Leesa Mattresses.

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And now, back to our show. So they have a very rocky marriage, though. Very rocky. It's tough on young Douglas Jr. here. And it's even harder in late 1978 when she dies of cancer. Oh, fuck. He is only nine years old, Douglas Jr. Sweet Pete, what a life.

That's tough. That's really, really tough, and I can't imagine what that's like. Nine years old, you have to realize how temporary this shit is? Not only that, and you realize it with your mom. That's the person that gives you that. That's tough. It's not like, oh, my grandfather died. Normally, that's how it works.

That's a lady in her fucking 30s. Maybe her 40s. You see some super elderly person dying in this, not your mom, when you's how it works. That's a lady in her fucking 30s. Maybe her 40s. You see some super elderly person dying in this, not your mom, when you're nine. Nine. Nine. That's tough. And you had to watch her be sick, too. Yeah.

And this is the 70s. Cancer treatments were not what they are now. Yeah, it was probably very, very rough. And I don't know what it would be like for the father, for Douglas Sr. Yeah. It's got to be tough on him, too. You have a wife and a child, and now your wife is gone, and you have a child, and you don't know what to do with him, maybe. Especially, too, this is 70s, Dad.

This isn't like now, Dad. I know how to cook, and I can do shit, and you know how to take care of your kids. Guys in the 70s, if they had a wife and stuff, they didn't know how to do things. It wasn't common at least. They could make macaroni and cheese and that's the only food they knew how to make. But then they put pepper on it or some shit. And they put some weird shit and give it to the kid. There you go. I put anchovies on it and he's like, what? Why? Why'd you do that?

I don't want anchovies. I don't want... Salt and pepper doesn't go on macaroni and cheese, dad. It's already fucking seasoned. I learned it when I had four roommates in college. Like, that's what they'll say. You don't... You gotta get protein, it's so weird yeah you don't you don't do that but a 70s dad with his own just a nine-year-old son's in there that is a rough situation it's like a terrible sitcom waiting to happen you know there's burning things all the time half men yeah that's the oh the opening credits of that is them in the kitchen, and the dad's got an apron on wrong.

Backwards or crooked or something, and there's shit all over it. And he's cooking something, and something catches on fire. And while the credits are going on, then they end the credits with them at a restaurant, eating, putting their forks up like, oh, well. Whoops-a-daisy. Dad and son, what are you going to do? We're fucking morons. Tune in next week to see what hijinks we get into.

Penises make us retarded and then they eat a fucking bite of the food. Okay. I don't know. Can't possibly cook that. That's what this sounds like. But I don't think it's that fun. It's more than likely shack carpeting and depression, I would assume. If he had a rocky marriage, too, and he was used to probably fighting with her, now he's

going to be yelling at his kid, taking out all his aggression on him. Used to chaos. Yeah. Yeah, he wants some chaos. He wants something. But no sweat. No. Don't fret, Jimmy.

He'll find. He'll figure out. He'll find and he'll make do, Douglas Sr. He gets remarried. Oh, boy. Six months after the mother dies. Oh, Jesus. Yes.

That was fast. That's super fast. Marries a woman named Geraldine Patterson. Okay. Very, very quickly. Yeah. That's something tells me they've been fucking a while. You think so?

Yeah. Yeah. And we'll find out later, too. There was rumors in them saying they were both unfaithful, and there was all sorts of problems in that marriage. Sure. And then Geraldine Patterson here comes along. They get married six months after.

And like I said, I could see Douglas Sr. Yeah yeah god and i'm he's 70s man think about this he's a 35 year old guy in 1979 jesus so i mean he was born in the mid 40s yeah uh he does not know how to do shit for himself he probably doesn't know how to fucking do laundry men were worthless back then with shit like that they just expected women to do it for them just like well she'll do all that shit so he probably didn't know how to do anything, and he's like, I need a woman in here ASAP. Now. Fucking marry this one.

I don't care. Get on in here. We're lucky we've made it this far without her. You don't even like anchovies, but you've eaten them every night this week. Do you understand that? I put them in everything you've eaten. I don't know how else to get you protein.

I don't know what else to do. I just empty the can into whatever I'm feeding you. I knew those eggs were oily to get you protein. I don't know what else to do. I just empty the can into whatever I'm feeding you. I knew those eggs were oily. Exactly, you did, but you know what? Protein. You felt good today, didn't you? That's right. You needed something. Why did you put it in the salad? Well, you know what? Sorry.

I had to do what I had to do, son. That peanut butter sandwich tasted weird. You know what? You can put anchovies on Pop-Tarts. That's all I'm saying. It's not that bad. When they're heated up and the anchovies are cool, it's a warm, cool thing. It's crunchy. It's soft. It's something. Sweet. It's salty.

It's textures. It's really good. It's like caramel and salt. Gross. Peanut butter or whatever the fuck. God, Jesus. Doug Jr. here is not happy about this whole thing. He's not happy about his father's attempt to replace his mother. He's not happy about this lady being in his house or having to live with this lady and have this lady be like his new mom. And understandable.

Understandable. I could understand being nine years old. Your whole family is your mom and your dad. That's your whole life. Your mom dies. And now all of a sudden your dad's like, oh, I'm marrying this lady. She's your new mom now. Mom doesn't just die.

Mom dies in a horrific way. Yeah, slowly. That's not a car accident. It's a horrible thing that dragged the life out of everybody and probably kicked the shit out of everybody. That's where I get where the dad wants to, you know, I would assume just poof, Jesus, I want to restart and want to have a life.

I just want to do something. But the kid, I could assume this is all too fast. And it's even worse because geraldine already has a three-year-old son oh shit so there's other kids coming in uh and then uh also the three-year-old son is joel jerry jj they call him or joel uh and then also shortly after they're married they have another son uh named donnie in late 1979 okay uh so not great if you're doug jr at this point here dead mom new family now uh two more kids that and this and also lousy relationship with his stepmom yeah also because uh there's rumor a lot of rumors that they keep him from seeing his maternal relatives his dead mother's

relatives so that's a problem that he's angry about we don't know how much that is but he's angry about that for years uh and who knows maybe the father had beef with them and you don't know the workings of that and they just said fine and i'm not going to take you to see them and i could see that after a while and it just gets to the point where fuck those people yeah whatever it's not a nice thing to do no No. I understand 100% how this situation sucks for a kid to be in. And you had step parents and all that. It's awful. Did you have step brothers and sisters with your step parents?

It's a weird thing. It's strange. It's very strange. And my stepfather fucking loved his boy and hated me. So that doesn't help. No, it was awful. That's the worst fucking thing ever. Yeah.

I had the thing. Both my parents, they got divorced. They both got remarried and had help either. No, it was awful. That's the worst fucking thing ever. Yeah, I had the thing. Both my parents, they got divorced. They both got remarried and had other kids. Oh, Jesus. So it was like they both, yeah. Oh, fuck. They each had their own unit. Yeah, their own fucking life.

Yeah, and they didn't treat me horribly or anything. Like, hey, nobody wants you, kid, or anything like that. But regardless, you feel. You feel like an outcast. Yeah, like, well, I'm not part of that family. I'm not part of this family. I'm not part of either family. I just hang part of this family. I'm not part of either family. I just hang out on my own.

Exactly. And then you end up being fucking me. You end up being a comic. You end up being a comic. And you're angry. And he hates himself. And he hates everybody else. And always.

And makes himself left out of things by yelling about everything and being angry about things. And just fucking isolates themselves. Yes. Because that's what they're used to. Yes. Exactly. A loner. because that's what they're used to. Exactly. A loner. A loner Donnie. A loner Donnie.

But I get where this kid is coming from. But this kid has it worse. Did you say his brother's names are Joel and Donnie? Joel and Donnie. That's two of the fucking Backstreet Boys, isn't it? No, New Kids on the Block. New Kids on the Block. Is Joel a New Kids on the Block?

I believe so. It sounds like it, but I don't think it is. Maybe it was Joey. There's a Joey, there's not a Joel. There's not Joel. Yeah, there's no Joel in there. Yeah, there's definitely a Donnie, though. Yeah, there's one letter off from having two of the fucking New Kids on the Block. That Donnie Wahlberg is looking...

He looks like shit. He's turned into a full-fledged monkey person. He just looks like a monkey now. His face, he looks like a monkey that's transformed into a human. At the concert, he still wears fucking shorts overalls. Oh just looks like a monkey now. His face, he looks like a monkey. And at the concert, he still wears fucking shorts overalls. Oh no, he doesn't. Are they Cavaricci's? I don't know. It's hysterical.

Somebody sent me a snap of the concert and that fuck is out there dancing in shorts overalls. Oh my god, I can't even continue. You know what? A 50 year old man in shorts overalls. Oh my God. I can't even continue. You know what? A 50-year-old man in shorts overalls is hysterical. With all this murder in the world and you think we cover this every week and you think

that would drive me to the point where I'm done. Nope. It's a 50-year-old man in shorts overalls. Donnie Wahlberg. I have to cash out. Check it out on Life now after that. That has ruined my faith in the world. That guy wears fucking Cavaricaret shorts overalls in public.

They're jean ones. You know the ones I'm talking about? Oh, I know the ones you're talking about. Is he wearing like a hyper color shirt underneath? Probably. People putting their hand on him. They're like, yeah. Fucking douchebag.

What a complete dickhead. People love embracing the shit that they used to like, you know, and then laughing about it. They better be laughing about that. But the new kids are up there singing. Yeah. As 50 year old men.

This is a real fucking gig to them. This is real, motherfucker. This is real. And everybody in the crowd's going, isn't this hilarious? This is real to us. This is real.

This is the best we can do. Do you understand that? This is what we have left in the tank. He put on the overall shorts and we're dancing. I don't know if it looks the same as it did 25 years ago. We can only do this for a few more years before our hips give out. It's the same fucking steps and we're doing it. So enjoy.

Jesus Christ. It's terrible. So this, and we're doing it. So enjoy. Jesus Christ. It's terrible. So this childhood for him is rocky the whole time. He has problems with his family the whole time. He has problems with his father. He likes to argue with them. They're always arguing about his mother that's dead. They're arguing about the dead mother all the time.

They argue about the stepmother and the fact that they don't get along. It's just a nightmare throughout his entire childhood. Now now by 1987 doug jr is 19 years old um and he is out of the house he's away from there uh he's living uh on his own he's married at this point also uh which is interesting i'm sorry i'm not laughing at that i I had to Google the new kids. And motherfucker, if you think Donnie Wahlberg looks like a monkey person, look at Danny Wood. He always looked like a monkey, though. That's a legit monkey. Yeah, he always looked like a monkey in 1989. There is nothing more monkey.

Donnie has transformed into a monkey person. Sorry. It's weird. They have two monkeys in their van. They are the monkeys. Wahlberg has like weird Trump hair. Yeah, he does. He looks bizarre.

It looks like it's made of some weird substance. He's just a strange man. Very strange. So, 87. All right, go on. Doug Jr. married. It's not like, you know, we needed to know that he's a monkey. It's fine.

He's married. He lives with his wife. He's married to a woman named Christiane, which is a terrible first name. Sorry, anyone named Christiane. That's terrible. Pick a fucking first name. It's too many first names. Yeah, you can't be Christiane.

You can't be. Be Christine. Be Christina. Pick anything. Not Christiane. That's the one I don't want you to be. So Doug Jr. and Christiane live separately. They are on their own.

At least he went and got married. At least he didn't bring the wife back to the parents' house and knock her up and have that whole perpetual thing here. So September 14th, 1987. Now, things up until this point in the last year or so have really, really – there's been a lot more tension between these two. And you would think there would be less once he moved out. He moved out and got married. Doug Jr. did. You'd imagine at that point things would ease up a little bit.

Maybe they see each other every couple weekends and come over and have a couple burgers off the grill, watch the college football game and, you know, whatever. What do you have to fight about at that point? You don't live together. You should never fight with your parents if you don't live with them. You really shouldn't. They want you to do something you don't live with them. You really shouldn't. They want you to do something you don't want to do. You just go, no, I'm an adult. I'm not doing

that. And then you hang up and that's the end of the fight. There's no fight with that. I don't know, man. You don't fight with your parents. You've got a point, but at the same time, it's fuck. Or tell them you're going to do it, then don't do it. You live on your own. Who cares? My wife's dad thinks he can just fucking tell us how to live our lives, and I'm not going to live like that.

I'm not going to take a—he's a Catholic man that's super-duper Catholic, and that's fine. Whatever. Do your thing. But he—so he pulled some bullshit stunt that my wife didn't like, so we didn't see him for a little while, and then they wouldn't go out of their way to see us, so we weren't going to go out of our way to see them. So then he wrote to his clergyman at his church in an email. Clergyman? What the hell does he have to do with anything? Hold on. It gets way worse.

What the fuck does God have to do with this? He writes to all these fucking people for them to pray for us, to let them see their grandchildren, which was dumb. I'm not keeping my kids from you. It's just I'm not going to fucking come to your house that's 45 miles from mine. Fair enough. So he writes to all these people and then threw a picture of my kids in there. And I was fucking furious that he would just show my picture to these guys.

Fair enough. And he copied me in the email. So I just replied to all, which was probably my first mistake. So I just replied to all, which was probably my first mistake. But I clicked reply to all. And I just said, the next time you send my kid's picture to pedophiles, please don't copy me in the email. And then clicked send. And then we didn't see them for like six months. So that worked.

That's good. Well, you know what? That's good. They didn't come around for a while. That ends the bickering. The thing is, you don't fight with your parents. You can if they're assholes. You don't have to fight with them because you don't fight with your parents. You can if they're assholes. You don't have to fight with them because you don't live with them.

You're not wrong. What you just said was they did something. You said you didn't like it. Then you didn't talk to them for six months. That's not a fight. That's just I don't have to listen to you. It's an argument. No.

Arguments go back and forth. That was just we talked about it. Now it's over. Don't send my kids pictures to pedophiles. That's what I told them. That's terrific. That's how you fight with your parents when you don't live with them, because you don't have to fight with them.

If you're arguing with them, don't go over there. Don't go over there if you're going to fight with them. You don't have to fight with them. You can just go home. It's different if you live in the same house, and they're paying the bills and feeding you. And they just continue to bicker. You have to fight with them, because you have to at show give them the respect to fight with them because it's their house but you're on your own fucking don't fight with them so they're still fighting though they

still fuck bicker they still have this problem yeah uh pictures of the kids to pedophiles all over the place so i like your response though so on september the 14th 1987 1987. Yeah. Doug Jr. Yeah. He has a little bit of a, he's had enough today. He said, I've had enough with this shit. I'm tired of them. I'm tired of my stepmom, mainly. And I think I'm going to fucking take this matters into my own hands today.

Okay. So he grabs a.22 rifle. Oh, Jesus. Oh, yeah. Grabs a.22 rifle, gets in his truck, drives to his parents' house, gets there. By the time he gets there, though, he cools down. He cools down a little bit and ends up changing his mind and

goes in, talks to them. There's a little bit of an arguing and stuff like that, but he's cooled down to the point where he's like, what am I doing? I'm not going to fucking shoot these people. They're my parents. I'm not going to shoot them or my stepmom, whatever. So he just leaves. He takes the gun and he leaves. He was in the car. He leaves it in the car.

Gets in the car, leaves. Don't know what the hell I was thinking there. Fucking my bad. You know what I mean? So next day, September 15th, 1987, Doug Jr. shows up at his parents' home just to talk. He says he's just showing up to talk, wants to talk to his dad. He finds his father just showing up to talk, wants to talk to his dad.

He finds his father's outside behind the house. So his dad's out there doing some shit. Doug Jr. walks up. He pops up out of the woods, which is an odd place to pop up. You'd expect most people come through the driveway. Now they come around the yard, things like that. This would be like if he just like, you know, zip lined in from the sky. He just rappelled down. He'd be like, what the hell?

Where'd you come from? He just emerges from the woods like he's in Field of Dreams or something. So he emerges from the woods with a rifle in his hand. Okay. Whoa. What the fuck is that about? So he changed his mind the day before, but today he's got a mind made up for murder. Well, he says he tells his dad I was squirrel hunting in the woods.

That's why I'm in the woods. So I have a.22 rifle and I was squirrel hunting in the woods. And I guess this is ample squirrel hunting grounds, apparently. There's a lot. Good squirrel in there, boy, I'll tell you. You can make a hell of a burgoo out of that. Now you take it on up to West Virginia. You entered in that contest and you got yourself a burgoo champion, baby.

No, thank you. So, no, that sounded absolutely awful. People sent me recipes and I refused to make that shit. I am not making burgoo. Plus, I believe that you can't, if you're gonna put a squirrel in your burgoo, I believe it has to be off the road.

I believe it has to have been hit by a semi. That's the only way it's acceptable. I don't think you're allowed to shoot it. The USDA approves it. Exactly. It must be hit by a semi, then run over by at least 17 SUVs before they can finally dig it up and put it in your stew. Watch out for pebbles. Right.

So, yeah, he says, I'm squirrel hunting, whatever. That's why I have a gun. He's like, hey, why are you in the woods with a gun? I don't see what's happening. I don't see your car, but you're in the woods with a gun uh so he said yeah that's no problem so dad's like all right sure because he he likes to squirrel hunt it's normal around there to walk around with a gun squirrel hunting it's virginia bizarre but whatever that's america so uh what a life what a life america that sounds vile america what a life that's our new. And we don't mean that in a good way.

So they go inside together. They go inside. They're talking. They're having a talk, just chatting. Now, he says he's squirrel hunting, but in reality, he has that rifle because on this morning, he and his wife, or Doug Jr. and his wife, Christy Ann, drove to a spot on the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is a 10-minute walk on the other side of the woods from the parents' house. So they park outside of the woods there. He leaves Christy Ann in the car, takes the rifle, walks 10 minutes through the woods to his parents' house, pops out through the woods.

Hey, Dad, just squirrel hunting. How's it going? Oh, no, the rifle, walks 10 minutes through the woods to his parents' house. Pops out through the woods. Hey, Dad, just squirrel hunting. Yeah. How's it going? Oh, no, the rifle, no big deal. Hey, you know, what about, how about that Giants game? And they go inside. I don't think they care about the Giants game. How about that Virginia game?

How about that Mountaineers game? That's West Virginia. Whatever. What's Virginia? They don't give a shit. Vatek? No, Virginia, Virginia. Who are they?

I don't know. They're not the Cavaliers. That's the Cleveland Cavaliers. What am I talking about? What the fuck? Who are you, Virginia, Virginia. Who are they? I don't know. They're not the Cavaliers. That's the Cleveland Cavaliers. What am I talking about? What the fuck? Who are you, Virginia? What is your goddamn mascot? What's your stupid mascot?

The University of Virginia? Yeah. Is that a UVA? They have a UVA as a mascot of some kind. I have no idea. I'm mixing all the schools up at Tennessee. Vanderbilt's in there. I know that's not right.

That's not even in Virginia. That's in Tennessee. UVA mascot is the catastrophe? No. The UVA mascot is the tiki torch. It says the UVA mascot catastrophe. Are they? Perfect.

Moving on. Is Virginia's mascot the catastrophe? I think it is. That's probably his name. It is a Cavalier. It's a Cavalier. Okay. Virginia Cavaliers.

That's what I thought. All right. I thought I was out of my mind, but that makes sense. Okay. I was going with Vautech. They're the Bulldogs, right? Vautech is not. What is that? Virginia Tech. They're the Bulldogs, right? Va Tech is not. What is that?

Virginia Tech. Maybe they are the Bulldogs. I don't fucking know. Who cares? They're the Virginia Tech shooters. Don't tweet us. We'll find out. Who cares?

Ask Michael Vick. That would be great if they're the Bulldogs and Michael Vick went down. They were the pit bulls. So yeah, he leaves his wife in the car yeah so which is interesting uh so she's sitting in imagine her okay honey and just sitting in the car on the side of the road i'm gonna go kill my parents today all right baby by the woods and he's got a rifle and he's like i'll be back in a little while and she's like okay jesus what does she do at that point too jesus this is 1987 so she's not dicking around on her phone. She brought a book.

Presumably, she brought a book or an Us Weekly or something and was like, okay, I'm going to peruse this shit because otherwise you're just sitting in the car. What a boring life for poor Christiane. So anyway, they discussed, the two of them, they discussed the previous day, the 14th when they were there, Christiane and Doug Jr. had discussed killing the parents. They talked about it, thought about it, they drove there, but he said at the time that he couldn't follow through and he just couldn't kill his family. He just didn't have the heart to do it. He couldn't follow through, but

they still pissed him off. But anyway, today, though, when he walks through the woods, also another thing he brought is a pair of rubber gloves with him, too. So he means business. If you park away from somewhere to not be seen coming in or out, because that's how many of our murderer people have been caught that way, nosy fucking small town neighbors going, I saw a car. I've seen it a couple times before, but not all the time. So I know he didn't live in it.

So I just wrote down the last place just to be safe. Like, there's those people. So he did that. He thought about that. He brought the rifle, rubber gloves. Jesus. This is a bad, there's bad shit. Bad shit.

Yeah, you think? This is definitely premeditated. This is premeditated. I would call this premeditated. I would call this. Vatek is the hokey bird. Don't tweet us. Moving forward.

Ah, that's right. The hokeys. That's right. The hokeys. Forgot about that. Yes. So apparently, so he's right. The Hokies. Forgot about that. Yes. So apparently, they're – so he's in there in the house. Doug Jr., Doug Sr.

Doug Jr. has a.22 rifle and a pair of rubber gloves. OK. Not looking good. This is terrible. Doug Sr. has no idea what's going on. He doesn't even – No. He's like, I'm arguing with my son, which is normal.

Great. You brought rubber gloves. I was going to work on the lawnmower. Yeah. He probably had them in his back pocket or whatever. So apparently, Doug Sr. starts making – Doug Jr. brings up his mother. Yeah. Okay.

His birth mother. His dead mother. Brings her up, as he often did, and Doug Sr. starts making disparaging remarks about her. Oh, no. Starts talking shit, saying that, look, basically, Doug Sr. is not only talking shit about his mother, the dead mother, he's talking shit about Geraldine, his wife, too. Wow. Doug Sr. saying that Geraldine is cheating on him. He's making wild accusations right now.

Doug Sr. saying his own wife is cheating on him. He's not saying anything about Doug Jr.'s wife or anything like that. He's saying, my wife is cheating on me. She's not saying anything about Doug Jr.'s wife or anything like that. He's saying, my wife is cheating on me. She's a no-good, lousy so-and-so, just like my first one, who was just as fucking lousy and unfaithful, too. Just like that one. I sure know how to pick them. Basically, yeah. So he's talking shit.

He's saying, look, your mother was no fucking better. She cheated on me, too. She was a scumbag. This is terrible. Blah, blah, blah. So this is a horrible conversation right now especially for a kid who's angry and been angry for 10 years and is holding a rifle and rubber gloves and no one has seen his car not the guy to be spouting the shit not the guy but he doesn't

think this is a normal conversation that they have apparently these two which is a terrible i don't want to talk to my weird when you're 19 you want to talk to your dad about whether your stepmom's stepmom's banging around on him and whether you're dead real mom who died when you were a child who you have like this angelic picture of, whether she was fucking around too. No. I don't care about that shit if I'm not fucking. No. I don't want to know a goddamn thing about it. So they're arguing back and forth.

Doug Jr. is trying to say that that's not true about his mother, which he would have no way of knowing. He didn't know if his mother was cheating on the father when they were five. She could have been blowing the doctor when she died. She could have been doing anything. No one knows. That is a horrible scene that you just portrayed in my head. That is the one. No one's ever.

No one on their deathbed has ever said, just put it in my mouth just for a minute. It's never happened. Not once. I can't go. I can't go without having. It's the only way I want to go. Without that taste. Oh a minute. It's never happened. Not once. I can't go without having- It's the only way I want to go. Without that taste. Oh, Jesus.

That's the worst, man. Poor lady. Oh, Jesus Christ. That is poor, poor, poor cancer-riddled woman. So Doug Sr. is like, look, fucking whatever. Fine. You don't want to believe me. It doesn't matter anyway.

I don't know why we're fighting about it. This really has nothing to do with you. Right. Tell you what. Come outside with me. I just bought this car. I just bought this car. It was a car he was going to restore. He was possibly going to restore it with the eldest

stepson, with JJ. Let me show you a project car that I bought that I'm going to do with another kid. My other kid. My special kid. My happy kid. Not you. Not the one with the dead mother. I'm done hurting your feelings

about your mother. Let me hurt your feelings about how I don't bond with you. Let's go look at a car that's nicer than yours that technically belongs to a 13-year-old who can't even drive again.

Then I'm going to take some of my money that could be bequeathed to you. No, you can't have any, though. But I'm not going to give it to you. I'm not going to give any of this to you. This is a terrible way to any, though. But I'm not going to give it to you. I'm not going to give any of this to you. This is a terrible way to calm a boy down.

I'm giving you a belt buckle. That's what you're getting, Will. It was from your grandfather. That's what you're getting. I hope it matters to you. Money and cars and homes and things of that nature. All the good stuff. I'm going to give that to the good kids.

That's right. To the kids that I love. Yeah, the ones that are not shunned. You're the shunned kid. You know how you're pissed off right now? Let me piss you off a little more. It's like irrigation. You've got to divert.

I've diverted funds away from your area and into a more deserving area. Into my fertile field. You know, the area where the good shit grows. Where things might actually grow. You're kind of an arid, kind of a rocky desert. All the vitamins are pulled out of your soles. Kind of a sandy area is what you are. You're just a big sandy area.

You're like a murky swamp. Just a murky. Does that make sense to you? There's mold in it because it just doesn't move. You know where the catfish feed? You know that slime that sits on top? It's thick. When a dragonfly lands on it, don't even break it. It's film like on top. It's thick. When a dragonfly lands on it, don't even break it.

It's film like on pudding. You know those rocks that you don't want to step on? You know, the sharp ones? The slick rocks. Remember when you fell when you was a kid? When you hit that rock and you slid and you felt busted your ass, that's the shit. You know when you're making a metaphor?

You know, it's like a metaphor of a lot of things, honestly. What I'm saying is you're a piece of shit. Several things that in the end add up to you're not important to me as a child, a son, a member of my

family, or frankly as a human being. Now come on outside. Let me show you this car I bought for your stepbrother who can't even drive yet. Come on now. It's beautiful. Oh, we're going to make it hum, baby. It's going to be worth so much money. The pussy he's going to get in this in high school?

Woo-wee, boy. You're going to be jealous. I'm telling you. You're going to be jealous. Ah, that's amazing. I know you rode a bicycle, but he's going to be taken care of. We just basically took everything that we ever felt from John. Yes, and just poured that shit into there.

Dueling terrible Southern fathers. That's what we did there. Holy shit. Dueling terrible Southern fathers. That's us. That's a good one. You ain't worth shit to me, boss. I'd like those two on a porch discussing everything that happens.

Those should be our new characters. Those two and Joyce the Cokehead neighbor. Right, Joyce the nosy Cokehead bitch. It's coming, man. It's coming. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our friends at Zola. Zola.com.

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So at this point here, this happens. He just says, now let me show you this car. And he turns away. And as he turns away, Doug Jr. is a little pissed off. He's had enough. He's had enough. And as he turns away, Doug Jr. puts the rifle onto the back of his dad's head and shoots him. Oh, my God. So he said, that's about that.

That's not the way to solve that. Come on. I'll show you the car. He said, I'll show you your brains on the wall. So he shoots him. I'm a piece of shit, but I'm a great shot. I'm a pretty good. Squirrels are tiny.

Very tiny. Your head is very big. What an asshole. So he shoots him. Doug Sr. falls down to the ground, injured, obviously. So Doug Jr. comes up and puts the rifle right between his eyes and shoots him again oh my god cold fucking sweet fucking pete i mean back of the head is one thing when you're in the heat of an argument's one thing but that gunshot personal

that didn't shock you back into reality you then said oh i'm finishing this job and went over him like cold-blooded like a hitman and popped one between the eyes. Right in the face. That's rough right there, man. That's serious shit right there. So he is dead at this point. What Doug Jr. does is then drags him, drags his father's body because his father's kind of like half in and half out of the door. Yeah.

So he drags his father's body back into the master bedroom and puts it in there on the other side of the bed, kind of hidden, and goes under his father's mattress and takes out a.22 pistol that he knows his dad has there. So now he's got a rifle and a pistol. So he stays in the house. So now he's sitting there. He waits for 15 minutes. 15 minutes he's sitting there with his dead dad. He doesn't run out of the house. Like, I just did this.

I got to get the fuck out of here uh he sits and waits for 15 minutes he's got two guns looking down at his dead dad think about this too 10 minute walk through the woods talk to his dad for about 10 minutes now it's been another 15 minutes so we're talking 35 minutes yeah his wife's been sitting in the car reading that goddamn book reading her glamour magazine or whatever the fuck she's reading it's actually she's like 19 she's reading like tiger beat in 1987 yeah they're both 19 years old these people they're young as fuck so she's sitting in there has no idea what's going on i'm just like what i i feel the worst for her but she knows what's going on she said i'm gonna go kill her yeah i'm gonna go kill my dad now see you be back soon and she went okay bye honey if you can get a couple squirrels on the way back i'll put them on in the pot tonight I'm going to go kill my dad now. See you. Be back soon. And she went, okay, bye.

If you can get a couple squirrels on the way back, I'll put them in the pot tonight. We'll make some burgoo and it's going to be delicious. He knew exactly where I'm going there. So, yeah, he's waiting. He waits for 15 minutes. Fifteen minutes later, he hears some action in the front of the house, and it is his two little brothers getting home from school. Oh, no. So what he does is he hides behind a living room door. He's like, oh, shit, people.

So he hides behind the living room door with his rifle there. And first one to come in with him hiding, first one to come in is Donnie. He's 10 years old. He comes in and walks past because he's hiding behind the door. So he just walks past him, doesn't see him. So that's almost like a farce at that point. Like he's sitting there behind the door and this kid's just boo, boo, boo, boo, boo. It's not a farce, though, and it's not funny at all because as he walks by, Doug Jr. shoots him in the back of the head.

Jesus. With his rifle. Fuck. Shoots him in the back of the head. 10-. Shoots him in the back of the head. Ten-year-old Donnie goes down to the ground. So he puts, as he falls down, Doug Jr. comes up and puts the rifle

point-blank to his right temple and shoots him again. So that's... Your father's one thing. You've got anger and rage for him. I get 10, 15 years of anger and rage and then talking shit about your dead mother. And if you're not mentally stable anyway, I don't say I get it for me. I'm not killing someone over that.

You're not. But if you're not that mentally stable and you think about killing your parents anyway, whatever. I see how that could happen. I'm not saying it's okay, but I see how that could happen. I saw Why Did Johnny Kill on HBO. Yeah, it happens. So I get rage of children, right. This, on the other hand.

This is disgusting. This is just. Unexcusable. Ah, these little motherfuckers get to have a nice life. I'll show them. That's what this is. This is not necessary, completely unnecessary. It's not the source of his anger.

It's not anything. Unnecessary bullshit right here. So horrible fucking actions is what he's doing. So he shoots this, the young Donnie. source of his anger it's not anything uh unnecessary bullshit right here so uh horrible fucking actions is what he's doing so he shoots this uh the young donnie so then 13 year old jj uh hers here's these shots in the living room because donnie was ahead of him and he turns to fucking run away yeah smartly obviously uh so uh he runs away gets outside but doug jr follows him outside and shoots him twice as he runs oh him outside and shoots him twice as he runs. Oh, my God.

Okay? Shoots him twice as he runs. This is the sickest fucking part of this thing. This son of a bitch, man, like I said, I got where he's coming from all the way up until right now. You shot your dad. You had 15 minutes. You could have got your ass back in the woods. Go get in the car.

Mission accomplished. Shot your fucking dad. You can go home. You can pretend you didn't shoot your dad. You can pretend whatever you want. Start that whole game. You can confess to it. Do whatever you want.

Say he deserved it. Say he pushed you. I don't know what the fuck people do when they shoot people, but this is hard shit right here. So what he does now, he shoots JJ twice as he's outside and he runs. So now he's down, JJ, and he can't run anymore or walk. So Doug Jr. picks him up and helps J.J. arm around him like you'd help somebody walk. You know what I mean? It was like he was spraying their ankle.

Here, I'll help you off the basketball court. Helps him walk inside the house that way. Says, no, no, let me help you inside the house. Oh, thanks a lot. Helps him inside the house, and then he shoots him again. Jesus Christ. So he helped him inside the house because he didn't says, no, let me help you inside the house. Oh, thanks a lot. Helps him inside the house and then he shoots him again. Jesus Christ. So he helped him inside the house because he didn't want to shoot him outside. That might draw attention. So he

helps him inside the house so he could fucking shoot him again. Wow. Right in the forehead too. Oh my God. This person has no heart, this Doug Jr. No heart whatsoever. No heart. He then drags both of the boys

he drags JJ and Donnie back into the master bedroom again with the father. Now the fucked up part here is he's standing there so now he's in the living room, Doug Jr. and he's waiting for

presumably for his stepmom to get home now. He's hiding behind a door again. And what does he see? Walk into the room. Fucking JJ. JJ's a tough son of a bitch. He's up and walks back into the living room. Jesus Christ.

How the fuck did he do that? Now, Doug Jr. freaks out. He's like, I just shot this kid three times. I shot him right in the fucking head point blank range right um what is going on so he freaks out and goes in and grabs a kitchen knife oh no grabs a kitchen knife and stabs jj nine times jesus to make sure nine times uh one of the stab wounds pierced the skull and penetrated the brain. You know how fucking hard to get through skull with a knife and penetrate the brain? I'm disgusted by this.

Another of the wounds severed the carotid artery. And so there's JJ there. So at least it put him out of his misery. Likely misery. Would have rather he lived, obviously. He might have been able to make it. If he's up and walking. You know what? He might have, if he was in a town with a fucking emergency room, he might have made it. We heard about that

in another town where a woman shot her husband in the face three times. Was it twice or three times? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just three times, right? And he fucking died at the hospital. He died after being fined. This would be like, well, Lynchburg's that way. I mean, fucking limp over there. Oh, man well, Lynchburg's that way. I mean, fucking limp over there. Oh, man.

So now he's got everybody. He's killed both his little brothers. He's got three bodies. And his dad. Three bodies. All dragged them all into the kitchen or all into the master bedroom. So this doesn't freak him out enough.

He just killed two children. In a horrible way. In a horrible way. Holy shit horrible way. I mean, the the shooting close range shooting helping him in stabbing there has to be blood fucking everywhere he's covered he's got he's covered the house is covered he's got a body in the back that's for sure leaking oh absolutely that's two shots to the head absolutely and and and one with the carotid arteries uh yeah severed

even if it's a 22 and you it's not an exit wound blowing the brains out or anything like that. There's blood leaking and then the stabbing in the carotid artery. That is blood everywhere. It is a mess. So this has to look like a horror scene. So does he run away? Nope. Stays there. Calculated as fuck. Nope. Gonna stay here

till Geraldine gets back. That's probably... We gotta finish this. Gotta finish. I started it. I mean, one thing you hate, you hate to start something and not finish it. I hate to leave leftovers. I hate to start a book and then just not know the ending. I hate to start a pot of burgoo and just not finish it. Just not finish it, man, leftovers.

That shit was already rotted meat in the first place. It'll get real rotted. So he's hiding behind the front door as she enters the house. Oh, Jesus. She comes in. He actually confronts her. He actually puts the gun to her head and said, hi, I'm fucking here and I have a gun to your head. He pulls the trigger.

It doesn't fire. Why? Gun jams. Okay. Gun jams. So now he's like, oh, fuck, Jesus, I can't shoot a kid. They come back to life. And now this one, the gun's jamming.

Things have started to get out of hand. It's hard to kill four people. Yeah, it is. It really is. Things go wrong. Things happen. That's why hitmen charge a lot of money, because it's hard to plan it out properly and do it correctly. Do it right.

It's not easy. And you've got to rely on some variables. And there's variables. Shit's got to work. You've got to rely on some variables. And there's variables. Shit's got to work. You've got to have backups for your guns or whatever the fuck. Not small town murder approved behavior. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying this is why people hire hitmen. Not that you

should hire hitmen. I believe in doing it yourself, but don't kill anybody. It ends up being an FBI agent. So now on this attempt the pistol fires actually but the bullet just grazes the side of Geraldine's head. So he grazes her. She falls down to her knees because psychologically people feel like when they get shot, they need to fall down because that's what they've seen on TV. That's an actual psychological.

Oh, I'm sure. They've studied it. That makes sense. People fall down. To have enough force to knock you down. Like you see in a movie, someone shoots someone with a shotgun and they like fly off the ground. The only thing that would make you fly off the ground, that would be like an artillery shell. Because the way physics work is a fucking projectile that weighs a fucking half an ounce can't knock a 200 person.

No matter the force behind it would have to be insane. So that's the way it works. And the shell actually fucking explodes, and that's why it knocks you down. Exactly. So unless they hit a vital organ that makes you immediately lose all function or you hit a spine or something, you fall down. It's learned behavior. I get shot.

I fall down. So she falls down. So then he takes the knife that he used to kill JJ, which he has lying nearby. And he begins to go to work on Geraldine. And he stabs her a lot. And it's a lot of rage. She is clearly the source of his anger. Yeah, his dad got two clean gunshots and a drag.

This is the source of his rage here. He stab two clean gunshots and a drag. This is the source of his rage here. He stabs her four times in the upper right chest. I'm going to stab you in the heart is what he's going for. He slashed her throat from complete side to side. Not just a little. He did it. Then

downed her vertebrae column also. He did it so bad that he severed the windpipe. Wow. And all major veins and arteries in her neck. She was basically decapitated. It's basically the same wound that Nicole Brown

Simpson had. It's the same thing. The OJ just about took your head off. Barely hanging on by whatever. What the fuck? That's the rage this kid had. The same rage that a 40-something-year-old, powerful, Hall of Fame-level, powerful NFL football player had with a rocky relationship with a wife for 10 years where they cheated on each other and he beat her up and was mad at her for fucking everything.

He did that to his stepmom. This guy had the same amount of rage for this. She never cheated on you, bro. 19-year-old kid. So this is horrible. Also, she had defense wounds to her hands, so she was trying to fight back and try. So now that everybody's gone, he's done everything he can do, I guess. What else do you fucking do at this point?

Make a sandwich? It's better than the one guy who went in and ate a snack. In between. In between murders. Took a break. I'm going to have a Coke and a sandwich. That was nuts. Those boys, his brothers represent her to him.

Yes. Because he was more vicious to them than he was to his own father. Yes. Who fucking did this to him. Who made him feel the way he feels. These people are not, whatever. And his dad didn't even do it to him. He did it to himself.

He just tried to have a life. I mean, I don't know how they treated him or whatever, but that's not relevant. It doesn't matter. You don't get to do this to people. You don't kill people. You let yourself feel a certain way. That's the end of it. That's the beginning and end.

Totally. You could tell he was jealous of those boys. You could just tell, how dare you have your mom, and then here, let me kill this woman because I don't have my mom. And no one should have their mom. He needed a lot of psychological help, this guy. And he didn't get it and it's bad. I don't know if that would have helped any, but fuck, it couldn't have hurt. I mean, it sounds like he was pretty fucked up before mom died.

He was fucked up anyway. Yeah. And now this whole thing screwed him up really good. I hope they got him some help if he's nine years old and his mom died. He was fucked up anyway. Yeah, and now this whole thing screwed him up really good. I hope they got him some help if he's nine years old and his mom died and he was all freaked out. I hope, but in the 70s... In the 70s, dads didn't do that shit. No, that's the thing. Sensitivity? Fuck you. Plus, they were like a

psychiatrist. My kid's not crazy. I'm not paying for that. They were like, that's ridiculous. People still thought that was just silly hogwash. Quack science. Yeah, exactly. They called him quack. Absolutely. So Buchanan runs. Doug Jr. here.

He takes off. He runs from the house. Now he's in a hurry to the woods in his parked vehicle. First of all, what would your wife be saying if you got back to the car an hour later? Covered in blood. She'd be like, what the fuck? It took you an hour to fucking kill those people? Because she knew what he was doing.

But an hour? Really? An hour. Jesus Christ. What the fuck are you doing in there? I have shit magazine is mostly ads there's not even a lot of articles now your clothes are gonna fuck the car up plus i don't read well the upholstery in this vehicle is gonna take forever to clean and i'm gonna who's gonna be the one you don't know how to clean me so they take off uh now along the way to the car he tosses his bloody uh tennis shoes he's got bloody sneakers and the knife that he used as the car, he tosses his bloody tennis shoes. He's got bloody sneakers and the knife that he used as

the murder weapon. He tosses them into a dumpster nearby when he pops out of the woods. Now, his wife is driving. His wife's driving now, and as his wife drives him away in the truck, he tosses the rifle out of the window, which does not seem like a real good disposal

method. That'll be fine right there. Out the window, which does not seem like a real good disposal method. That'll be fine right there. It'll be right there. Out the window is a good place for it. I don't have it. That's all that matters. Where'd it go? Out the window.

Good enough. All right, then. So, yeah, fuck, man. Unbelievable. So he's, this whole thing is crazy. So it takes a while, too, for the cops to see what's going on. And obviously, he did this on purpose

because he hid and the car was there the whole time. So September 17th, police find the bodies. So two days of festering in September in Virginia. So it's warm in two days. That houseering in September in Virginia. Jesus. So it's warm. Yeah.

In two days. That house is a disaster. It needs to be burned down. And yeah, imagine walking into that scene and finding, first of all, a woman nearly decapitated in the kitchen. Right. Two children. Two dead children.

Shots everywhere. One dead child in the living room with stabbed to shit. Stabbed, fucking stabbed to Christ out of that kid yeah and then and then i did find another one back here i mean that's just a disaster uh sheriff investigator county sheriff investigator duval dos is there he's the guy that works on the case he says quote we talked to doug several times uh it gets to the point where i tell doug i know he did it and i'm gonna get you oh boy so he's telling him i know you did this and doug's like i don't know he did it, and I'm going to get you. Oh, boy. So he's telling him, I know you did this. And Doug's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm terrible. My dad got killed. I don't know what's going on. He then, this DOS guy, this is smart here. You can convince dumb people to take a polygraph. I don't know what it is. Anybody else, if you're smart, you're like, I'm not fucking taking a polygraph. Eat shit.

What are you talking about? Especially if you're guilty. Right. People that, I can beat the box. Right. How arrogant are you talking about? Especially if you're guilty. Right. People that – I can beat the box. Right. How arrogant are you? Maybe if you have training, if you're in the CIA or something, or if you're on a bunch of drugs that can calm your whatever. Right.

Other than that, you can't just go in there and be like, I'm good. Fuck, yeah. Let's do it. These people, they're stupid. What do they know? So he talks – this DOS talks Christiane into taking a polygraph. Oh, gets Christiane. Gets Christiane to do it, the weak link.

And they take her to Appomattox to do it. She fails miserably, obviously, because she's lying about everything. Now, Doss says, quote, Doug was going to take it. Then they disappeared. They both disappeared. So before they could go, before they could take it and get him locked in on a story. They disappear. Okay. They're trying to figure out where they are.

They track them down. They're connected to forged checks that were cashed in Roanoke. Oh, boy. And maternity clothes had been purchased because Christiane is pregnant. So they're like, that makes sense. She's pregnant. Of course she's pregnant. Because, of course, you take your pregnant 19-year-old wife to hide on the other side of the woods so you can go kill your whole fucking family.

Jesus Christ, you dumb shit fucking redneck asshole. Then you're on the run and you're forging checks. What is the end game here? What's the end game? We'll get to Mexico and have our child and call him Pablo and just pretend like we live there forever. What is your fucking plan? So dumb. Jesus, we're going to have Mexican-anchored children, and they're going to have to let us stay there because that's how it works.

These are Mexican citizens. Y'all got to keep us. Y'all got to keep us. So, yeah, so they're connected there. No one could identify the couple uh actually they couldn't identify them physically for some reason no one had enough memory they're all had a little too much moonshine that day identify the couple like at the stores where the checks were from okay gotcha they all look the same but one of the one of the yeah one of the store owners wrote down the tag number of

the pickup truck they were driving because he just found them odd. Really? Which nosy small, that's the other, that's so. How odd do you have to be to stand out as odd in Virginia? Well, this is why we, well, two kids like that. Yeah. This is why we do small town murder because like in big cities, nobody would write down anybody's tag. You don't give a shit about anybody's tag number. No one cares.

But in these small towns. You tell that person to get fucked and leave you alone. Yeah, get out of here. Small towns, crimes are solved differently. They are. They're solved by a guy in a store, didn't like the looks of that one, and wrote down his tag number. You don't get that in San Francisco. No one goes, I didn't like the looks of that one.

I wrote down his license plate. Maybe he's the one. That doesn't happen. In San Francisco, they go, you keep being weird. You be you. Let your freak flag fly. How many fucking people but they don't talk like that there's the only difference but literally how many people have

been caught by by a nosy person writing a tag number down in our it's probably 10 episodes it's ridiculous so uh uh what they did do though they are completely stupid because uh the couple before christianne and doug jr before they left they had never been arrested neither of them had a criminal record so they agreed before anything to have their fingerprints and photos taken by the police like yeah we got nothing to hide sure there's your fingerprints so at least they have that now on file which they didn't have before uh dos said quote they ran because they thought they would get arrested on checks okay so that's that's September 17th. And the next week, this all happens. This goes on until October 2nd.

Jesus Christ. So they're gone for two weeks. Yeah. Finally, in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Oh, Christ. Of all places. Fuck, that's way worse. So they end up turning themselves in in Albuquerque.

We're broke already. This is terrible. We didn't make it. And we're in Albuquerque. Our truck's out of chaos. Tell you what, jail's better than Albuquerque. This is terrible. We didn't make it. And we're in Albuquerque. Our truck's out of chaos. Tell you what, jail's better than Albuquerque. So call Virginia. Someone call Virginia.

If we don't turn ourselves in, we're going to have to stay here forever. We're going to have to live in Albuquerque. Oh, hell, I'm not raising my child in Albuquerque. I'd rather he be born in prison than raised in Albuquerque. No. Oh, man man that's amazing so doug jr confesses to everything really spills it gives it up uh albuquerque drew it out of it drew it out of them well they sent people from virginia to go get them out there uh yeah he said that after he decided to shoot his dad after he decided to shoot his dad, after he decided to shoot his relatives, he killed his dad first, dragged the body, says the whole thing. He even admits he waited for the two stepbrothers.

He waited for them. He said he, you know, ambushed them and jumped them and premeditated. He admits to some capital fucking murders, what he does here. Now, when asked about the murders, he says, quote, they never treated me like a son. They treated me like an outsider all the time. I mean, I don't think they cared. He says that it wasn't any particular thing that set him off at the time. He said, quote, there was no one thing that they could have done or would have done.

It's just that, I mean, they never talked to me when I was living there. I get that. Yes, that sounds very familiar. But also, too, how much of that is you feeling like that how much of that though is you don't get to kill people what the fuck are you doing no matter what you don't get to kill people and also when you're in that situation how much of that is you feel like shit about yourself so you feel like they nobody talks to you and you feel like you're an outsider even when they would like you to be joined the festivities i can see that too they've

probably called you and asked you to be there and you're like, y'all don't make me feel included. Even if they told him to eat dicks and go sit in his room, you still don't get to kill him. Get to be 18 and then move out of the fucking house and go away. You already did that. You even have a wife and you're starting a family.

Why are you talking to these people? You never have to talk to these people ever again. That's the thing. He never had to see these people ever again. I don't think his dad is sending him emails with the clergy included. That's probably not. So they charge him. He is charged with capital murder for killing, quote, more than one person as part of the same act or transaction. My Christ.

I find out in the words of the law. Why transaction? It's a weird verbiage in the law there you didn't give money for anything you didn't exchange anything how do you kill someone in an act or transaction he did exchange his freedom for their life he exchanged bullets for their blood i guess i suppose he exchanged a knife for yeah uh four separate indictments they also charged him with first degree murder of each victim and also he was charged with four counts of use of a firearm in the commission of a murder. He pleads not guilty to all charges. He's out of his fucking mind.

Now, the the the DOS investigator, he says a guy named Danny VR, who was assigned to the Forge Checks case, was the key to the whole thing. He's the guy who tracked them all down. And with the he coordinated with the Lynchburg Police Department to track them down and then ended up going to New Mexico with Doss to pick them up. Okay. Now, December 31st, New Year's Eve, 1987. They are obviously, they're both in custody, Christiana and Doug Jr. What is she charged with? Just a conspiracy?

She's charged with murder. Oh, fuck, yeah. She was driving the gallery car. She's aware now, yeah. She drove to the liquor store with them and did not get out of the car. She is just as responsible for that Korean lady's brains as he is. So that night, Christiane gives birth to a baby boy in police custody. Right, and it's named Douglas III.

Yeah, Sheriff's Department. We don't know, actually, it's named, because they end up giving it up for adoption. They have to. Thank fuck for that. They have to. She might have parents or something that she could give it to. I guess. No, because they raised her. So no.

They don't get her. I want that baby nowhere near anybody who had anything to do with either one of these fucking people. Full new family. Full new. anything to do with either one of these fucking people full full new family full new so uh the uh sheriff's department spokesman said quote the arrangements as far as the child are concerned is concerned are being handled by the family which scared me they said that quote she will be there for a couple days at the hospital uh whatever the doctor says if the family doesn't come to pick up uh come up with a place for the baby it's at her point to figure out who's taking

the baby at that point then the the state department of social services will for the baby. It's at her point to figure out who's taking the baby at that point. Then the State Department of Social Services will take the baby. The police spokesman said that there's guards with her at the hospital there. Obviously, Doug Jr. is in jail. He's not. He's in trouble. Well, he didn't get to go there and hold her hand during childbirth. He's in a little bit of trouble.

That's a good way to put it. He hasn't asked to see the child at all, the sheriff's representative said. They said, so the press asked him if there could be arrangements made for a visit, and the sheriff's department guy said, quote, that would be doubtful. That's no. They did say the mother and baby are doing fine. They said, quote, we've had inmates that were pregnant before but not giving birth. It's kind of a strain

on manpower. I would imagine so. So now they have to have a nursery there too. They have four fucking guards. Yeah, four. So they give the son up for adoption. March 29, 1988, Christy Ann's trial begins for

the murder here. They're trying to get it. They get them separated. They get them severed. Her defense attorney says the excessive publicity around it, they want it moved out of Amherst County and just away from there. But the judge, Robert Goh, denies the motion, saying the defense failed to prove the coverage of the vicious stabbings would prohibit them from receiving a fair trial.

Amazing. Yeah. So they were like, OK. Now what? Yeah. Now, her attorney declined to say whether he expected a difficult jury selection, since everyone in town knows about this. There's only 2,000 fucking people. Or whether that now, meaning, see, this is what I don't like.

thousand fucking people right or whether that now meaning see this is what i don't like he's saying that who knows she might plead to a lesser charge now because she's not going to be able to get a fair trial which that kind of sucks if you're going to plead because you don't think you're going to get a jury that's impartial i mean that's tough i don't give a shit about this particular lady but if that was an act if you were innocent that would suck you know what i mean like i don't want to plea and i can't get a fair trial what am i doing what do i do here but they they did say that she will be tried separately from Doug, which is good. Anytime you're not in his presence is best. His lawyer said, quote, a trial by herself is in her best interest.

The evidence tends to indicate that he was more responsible for what took place than she was. We certainly did not want her tried with him. No shit. I mean, he's solely responsible for the acts of it. I mean, she drove him there and knew he was doing it and participated and it was an accessory, but she didn't cut a woman's head off or stab a child

nine times. It takes a special kind of person to do that. It's a completely different thing here. He is charged with, like we said, four counts capital murder, and they are saying they are going for the death penalty here. They want the death penalty from him. So April starts. His trial goes on in April.

In the opening statements, the prosecutor tells the jury that he will be asking for the death penalty based on vileness, which is actually a legal term in the aggravating jargon. It's a certain vileness of the crime. Remember, it was heinousness for the one crime. They have their own language yeah a certain vileness of the crime remember it was heinousness for the one crime they have their own language but basically on this down there yeah if you do something uh i believe this is legally the language if you do something quote particularly shitty i believe is how they put it it's good then it's that's an aggravator uh he said uh in his opening statement the prosecutor conceded that, yes, Doug Jr. had a troubled childhood. He's guilty of noodnickery.

He's guilty of so much noodnickery at the very least. He said that, you know, he tells the jury that, look, you're going to have to balance the fact that, you know, yes, he had a shit childhood, but he also killed four people. So, you know, kind of balance that out. But the prosecutor went in saying, trying to preemptively be like, they're going to tell you that he had a shit childhood so it's okay to kill people. It's fucking not.

He did have a shit childhood. It's tough shit. Doesn't matter. I'm sure he said, too, this is in the 80s in Virginia. He could tell people, how many of your parents whooped you? How many times did you get told to pick a switch? How many times did you pick your own beating stick? How dead are your parents?

Not dead? All right, then. Well, then he's the outlier. How much wind do your parents draw every day? Yeah, no shit. And if they are dead, was it on your behalf? Did you do it? Did you do it?

Should you be sitting here or should you be sitting over here? Now, the defense counsel outlines the mitigating evidence. He says that he's asking that Doug Jr. not be executed at least based on the evidence of this terrible trial, and obviously his father deserved it. I mean, his childhood, terrible. Jesus. So two-day trial.

Two days? Two-day trial. Not exactly OJ. It's speedy. Yeah, that's constitutional. That's a speedy trial. He got half a day per body. That's what he got.

That's it, man. That's poof. And they didn't even, it was seven defense witnesses and eight prosecution witnesses. So that's 15 witnesses in two days and the fuck out. Done deal. So that's 15 witnesses in two days and the fuck out. Done deal. Buchanan, Doug Jr., his witnesses talked about how his mother died from breast cancer and his father's marriage and how hard it was on him.

And they talked about like relatives of his talked about how like his maternal relatives talked about how that the father would not let him see them and that that was very hard on Doug Jr. He was kept away from his family after his mom died and difficult. Yes. Tough thing. But it doesn't matter. Reason for murder? No. I don't think so. Psychiatrists also testified that he was under, Doug Jr. was under extreme emotional distress

at the time of the crime based largely on the stress caused by the manner in which the family had dealt with and reacted to his mother's death 10 years ago. So he's under extreme emotional disturbance from something that happened nine years ago. You should be able to cool off. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about HelloFresh. All right. HelloFresh is a meal kit delivery service that shops, plans, and delivers your favorite step-by-step recipes and pre-measured ingredients so you can just cook, eat, and enjoy.

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That's fantastic. Enjoy it. And now off your first order. That's fantastic. Enjoy it. And now back to the show. So nine years. I would say nine years is enough time to chill the fuck out and be cool with it. I wouldn't call any of this a reaction to anything. Reactions don't happen nine years later usually. Also, they had two other mental

health experts testify for the prosecution. And they they said that, yes, they agreed with everything and said that, yeah, that's tough on a kid, but it doesn't make you kill people generally psychologically. That's not the that's not the that's not the math problem. Well, when that happens, obviously they're going to kill. That's not the cause and effect. Yes. That's not the equal. If you have a nine-year-old and their mom dies, put a pillow over his face because protect yourself because he's going to kill the whole family one of those days now. Doug Jr. testifies during the trial, which I guess you'd have to at this point because what do you have to lose?

He testifies that he did not intend to kill anyone. He said he thought about killing his stepmother the night before. That's true. He thought about that, but he stopped himself, and he said he just went to the house to talk. But the prosecution brings up, then, why did he park his car on the other side of the woods and bring rubber gloves and a rifle and have his wife drive in the getaway car and all that sort of thing here. It's so hard to understand somebody saying that when there are four bodies. That's the thing.

You didn't intend to kill all four people? I didn't intend to, but I just brought my rifle with me just in case I changed my mind in the middle of it and said, now I intend to. And then took the weapon from his dad and then shot everybody with that too. I'll cut this lady's head off because this gun isn't quick enough for me. I didn't intend to kill him. No, I sure did. Until that one got up and came walking back into the

living room. And I said, you know what? I'm going to kill all these fucking people. I'm going to do that. Now, under oath here, he said that he was talking with his father and he said, quote, Doug Jr. said that he was getting mad himself. He said he was getting mad. He said, quote, I was sweating, I was getting real hot and I was shaking. said that he was getting mad himself. He said he was getting mad. He said, quote, I was sweating.

I was getting real hot and I was shaking. He said he tried to defend his mother and his father broke off the conversation like away from it while he was trying to defend his mother. And he said, his dad said, quote, that's it. Let's go out and look at this car I bought for JJ. Like, yeah, let's go look at this car I bought for your stepbrother. And he said it was at that point that he just shot his dad.

He was like, that was the last straw. That was the last straw here, which understandable in a way. If you're a psychopath like this and you're there to kill and you're waiting for the moment, that's going to be the moment. I feel like his dad took a very weird pleasure in making him mad, though. I feel like that, too. It's got to be. It's very possible. Because how do you go from...

Why would you start talking about how his mother was unfaithful to him? Why would you bring that up? And when he's had enough of that and he's defending his mother, why do you change the topic to how much better you treat your stepson? That's what I mean.

That's fucking unbelievable. He's got a weird thing with him. There's a weird relationship here. That's really fucked. In the closing arguments... Not a reason to die. No! Fuck no.

Just you're a shit father. You deserve no Christmas presents. You deserve no Christmas presents. And maybe not to see your grandkids that much. Or a really terrible Christmas gift. You know what I mean? Just nothing. Ignored. An exceptionally just minuscule token.

Poor. Yeah, go fuck yourself. Like a caramel in a box or something. Like one of those shit like pre-packaged like, you know, like, oh, here's a summer sausage and a cheese thing. Yeah, that's pretty brutal, too. Those are terrible. Nobody wants that shit from Hillshire Farms. There you go. The summer sausage that was packaged in 1974.

Enjoy. So now closing argument, the prosecutor tells the jury, quote, even if you find that there was vileness uh that you uh that you do not have to return the death sentence i will not suggest that to you uh so he says yeah you fucking it's your it's up to you it's up to you uh he says there is mitigating evidence i agree uh he agrees the jury has to weigh this evidence against the conduct the prosecutor was very wasn't a real heavy-handed wasn't one of these guys. It's like the hell of fires and burning. He wasn't one of these guys. He was very much like, hey, you know what?

Let's be cool about this. And this is how it is. And that's it. Because he kind of if you find mitigating factors, you find me. You kind of don't have to push it over the right. You're on the one yard line. Just just just fall in. It's one of those is nudge it in because he just – just the crime scene photos alone.

That's enough. It's going to be rough here. So, yeah, he says that the prosecutor argued, though, that he thought the circumstances definitely warranted the death penalty. Now, defense counsel also explained mitigation, and he said that, quote, practically any factor can be considered in mitigation. That's true, but not – it has to outweigh murder. So that's a pretty heavy factor. He discussed for a long time, you know, Doug Jr.'s lack of any criminal record, his extreme mental and emotional disturbance at the time of the offense, his significantly impaired capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the law's requirements and his youth. Sure.

So he's saying he's young, crazy, and never did anything before. He just snapped. He's fine. You know, let him out someday. Oh, boy. He says that those four mitigating factors, all recognized in the Virginia Code, mitigated the offense, and everything should be good. See you guys in a little bit, and you'll let him go, I'm sure.

Have a good one, guys. This is bananas. That's what he's saying. It should be good. I'll see you guys in a little bit, and you'll let him go, I'm sure. Have a good one, guys. This is bananas. That's what he's saying. It should be fine there. Right. So the jury instruction on the whole thing, and this will be a big deal, the jury instruction, because the problems with the jury and the jury instruction become something that he really focuses on and appeals here.

The only mitigating factors I'm going to accept are- He was trying to kill me? Doug Jr. pulled up into the driveway, and they were all four perched in different windows, taking pot shots at his car. I was going to say, with rifles? He rolled out. He tumbled out the car.

Ninja roll. And then he drew down on all of them. Like a Christmas story he was shooting as they were coming over the fences and shit? Like an old Western. He just starts popping them out of windows. That's the only circumstance. He walked in the door.

He brought some donuts over. He had some pastries. He's like, hey guys, I brought pastries. And as he put them down, his dad bum rushed him, tackled him from the back, and tried to take his pants down and rape him in the kitchen. I'll accept. Well, the other three held guns on him. I would accept that at that point.

I'd be like, wow, good job cutting your head off. I don't know how you did that. This guy's Superman. You're a fucking diehard over here. But instead, he ambushed them. So it's not like that. So anyway, the judge, what they do is they instruct the jury that first they have to obviously, the Commonwealth, the state, must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the conduct was vile, which I don't think there's any doubt there. That's my favorite word, too.

Vile. The instruction next stated that if the jury found that the condition met, quote, then you may fix the punishment of the defendant at death, or if you believe from all the evidence that the death penalty is not justified, then you shall fix the punishment of the defendant at life imprisonment. So that's what he's telling them. Buchanan, Doug Jr., requested several additional jury instructions be given. He says that, number one, they should instruct them special on mitigating factors

on the no significant history of criminal history, extreme emotional, the same thing his lawyer said, significantly impaired, the whole deal. He also proposed that they say, that they instruct the jury, quote, in addition to the mitigating factors specified in other instructions, you shall consider the circumstances surrounding the offense, the history and background of Doug Jr., and any other facts in mitigation of the offense, the history and background of Doug Jr., and any other facts and mitigation of the offense. Basically, you should really plead my case for me with them before they go decide what

happened. The court said, go fuck yourself. We already had a trial. If you wanted to say all that shit, you fucking should have said it then. Your lawyer could have said it. As a matter of fact, he did say it. He just said it in closing arguments. So we're good now.

Thank you. Yes, the jury does not take very long to convict him. He did say it. He just said it in closing arguments. So we're good now. Thank you. Yes. The jury does not take very long to convict him. They find him guilty of capital murder for killing his dad and four first degree murders and firearm offenses. The actual and now during the penalty phase with the jury, the actual jury instruction here. And this I find interesting because I've never sat on a jury where you have to decide between life or death on somebody. So I'd like to know what the fuck they say to you at that point.

It's got to be fucking dark. Quote, you have convicted the defendant of an offense which may be punishable by death. There it is. You must decide whether the defendant should be sentenced to death or life imprisonment. And a guy says that in like a cloak. Yeah. Like a black. With a gavel looking down on you from four feet high.

Oh, shit. Whoa, wow. With statues of naked women with scales. It's fucking crazy. He has to put on a very old white roller wig to do this. Yes, to do this. Quote, before the penalty can be fixed at death, the Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his conduct in committing the murders of his family was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible, or inhumane, in that it involved torture, depravity of mind, or aggravated battery to the above four victims or to any one of them.

If you find from the evidence that the Commonwealth has proved beyond a reasonable doubt the requirements of the preceding paragraph, then you may fix the punishment of the defendant at death and then blah, blah, blah with the life imprisonment as well. So that's what they tell you. Yeah. Vileness. It's horrible. Inhuman. That's a brutal way of saying it all.

Yeah. April 29th, 1988 is the verdict. Like I said, they were instructed they could give him one or the other. Right. And they give him, the jury on May 2nd stated that they unanimously find his conduct to be vile. Yeah. And, quote, having considered the evidence in mitigation of the offense, it unanimously fixes punishment at death. Wowza.

So they say he's death. Now, the judge has to sign off on this. It's not set in stone yet. Not guaranteed yet. The jury returns with the with the death penalty uh they sentence him to death and uh for and life in prison for each of the other ones and uh so it's basically he's got like uh four life imprisonments and then another four for the firearms right so he's got like eight life sentences and a death penalty he's fucked it's

over he's fucked so july 2nd. Can you imagine being told those words? That's brutal. I can't imagine having the memories of cutting my little brother's head nearly off and everything else either. Fuck, man. He's got worse shit floating around in his head. Sweet fuck. On July 2nd, 88 is Christiane's verdict, and she is convicted. She sobs while they do it.

He's emotionless. He sawed a woman's head off. Yeah, he's got nothing where she is just, you know, wow. She's freaking out. I expected you to say all of these words. Did you see what I did to my family? Did you see that? She is sentenced to four life sentences, Christian.

Oh, fuck. So she is freaking out. She's crying. She said, quote, this should have never happened. I wish there was something I could do to change all this. I would do anything to have them back. More like I would do anything to not be going to jail forever. Do anything for me to save my own skin. Yeah. The judge in her in her case said, quote, the horror and enormity overshadow everything else. The horror and enormity control the case. She collapsed into the chair and the whole deal. they had to pick her up and stand her there uh so she could

sob some more right uh bad choices for her going out with this guy i feel like i don't think she would have killed anyone on her own put it that way this this asshole uh so he's ruined that's five lives now yeah and his own six fuck his own seven with that his own. Seven with that baby. I mean, the baby probably, he probably saved that baby's life because it's off now to having a much better life than it was going to have. I'm sure, I would think so. Now, August 20th, 88 is the sentencing here.

He argues for a lesser sentence. He says that also, not only does he shouldn't need to get death, he suffered a seizure while he's been a county jail, and he needs more neurological tests. No. And he testified that he wants more tests. No. And that he can't sentence me.

He says before he's sentenced, they said, do you want to say anything? And he went, yes, I do, which is smart if you're in this situation. He said exactly what you should say in this situation if you want to get less of a penalty, although if you cut people's heads off, it doesn't work all the time. They don't consider it usually. He said, quote, I'm sorry for what I did. I'm sorry the community and families involved have to have this pain. I sometimes ask myself why. I guess that's an answer I'll have to find out for myself.

Yeah, I guess you will, motherfucker. What? The judge. I mean, I guess that's an answer I'll have to find out for myself. How about when you find it, relay it to us? Yes. The judge. Now, he's emotionless here, Buchanan.

He's straight faced. He, the judge, affirms the verdict and says, quote, the sentence of death is appropriate and just. You, sir, may fuck off. Take a hike, mister. Yeah. So, yeah, it's automatically going to be appealed to the virginia supreme court obviously uh the uh his defense attorney said quote we got everything uh we got in everything we wanted to for the appeal which they had to set up all the

appeal shit uh he's immediately sent to state prison after that yeah uh after sentencing everybody's happy yeah the uh attorney the common's attorney, Edward Meeks, says, quote, I feel very satisfied that the jury brought back a just verdict. I thought it was the most appropriate verdict under these circumstances. Quote, when you kill four people in the manner that he did, there has to be accountability. It took a lot for them to come back with this decision. One of the jurors, they talked to one of the jurors in this, and they also talked to the defense attorney, the press does here. One of Buchanan's attorneys here gets, he said, quote,

I think the most damaging thing was the deaths of the children. No shit. There was no reason. Even in his statements, Doug just couldn't justify a reason. And that's one of his attorneys that said that. Like, look, he just didn't have – no, he couldn't say why. He was just like, I don't know. They were there too.

And I was pissed at them because I'm jealous. Well, if I didn't shoot them, they were going to see their dad. And I still had to get mom. Yeah. That's really what happened. The juror in this case said, quote, I think it was the brutality and the children. It all added up. So, yeah, he said they decided – it took three votes to decide on the death penalty to get everyone unanimous on it in there.

He said the evidence was, quote, was all well reviewed and real carefully because it was a real hard decision to make. It was the fairest jury possible. He said that the jury said that the evidence was the evidence about the traumatic childhood. They thought about it and they talked about it, but they just didn't that way, though. Absolute fucking brutality that he committed. Quote, it's quote, it's a lot of people who have childhood problems. It wasn't that extreme. I just think the whole jury felt that way.

That's what the jurors said. Exactly. He just had he was a little pissed off at his parents. So what? Fucking he would have been a little emo. Literally, if this was a few years later, he would have just like fucking worn black and listened to Marilyn Manson and he would have been fucking fine if it was like 1993. Or even if he could have lasted three more years. Nine Inch Nails came out.

He could have listened to Pretty Hate Machine over and over again. He could just fucking thrive on the hatred that you have. I just want something I could never have over and over again with the fucking – and he could just be depressed and sullen, be a dickhead. So do that. So, yeah, his attorney said – I don't know, basically. He just said fucking – they tried to – the attorney said they tried to put together like a – there was an absence of a critical event that would set the slayings in motion.

together like there was an absence of a critical event that would set the slayings in motion. His dad didn't like backhand his wife the night before or nothing happened there. So on direct appeal, he has a couple of stupid Doug Jr. Here has a couple of stupid appeals. One is that they he says that the capital murder indictments against him didn't give him sufficient notice of the charges against him, which he had to defend. He wasn't aware that they were going to charge him with murder. Wow. He argues that the various indictments permitted the jury to convict him of more than one capital murder

based on the death of the same person, Buchanan Sr. This actually ends up being true. What's that? Basically, there's a few different things here, and we'll get to that. They convicted him twice of the same killing, of the same person. They convicted him for five murders of four people. That's the problem here. Now, we'll get to that in a second, but there's also other things in here.

They talk about the jury wadir, the questions that were asked. They said that the— So they're trying to go with double jeopardy there no no no they're saying that the well not even double jeopardy because they're just convicted yeah so they're trying to get one of those thrown out okay and the one that he wants thrown out is the death penalty one well oddly enough clearly that's going to be the one can we just take the lighter one uh so also the on on they would the court would not allow his attorneys doug jr's attorneys to ask the jury two specific

questions that they wanted to ask. And they said that was a reason, too. The questions were, quote, from what you read or heard about the case in the newspapers, what impression do you have about the case? And, quote, do you believe that a death sentence is the only appropriate punishment for capital murder? The second one, there's case law on that of what you can ask them. But the first one, I think it's just the way you ask them. You can ask them, have you heard anything about this in the newspapers? That's all you can ask them, I believe, at that point. And if they say yes, then you can ask, I think, a follow-up question.

But I don't think you can just ask that out of the blue, assuming. Because he's saying, from what you've read and heard about in the newspapers, assuming that you have. And I think that's what the judge says. Don't imply that these people have. They may not know how to read. This is Virginia. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's a problem. The court sets aside the redundant

conviction for his father's murder, but still death. Still fuck you. They took that life sentence one out. Tell you what, now you got four and you're still dying. So you feel better now, dickhead? The jury shit, the shit. You win, you lose. Yeah.

Sorry, asshole. God damn. Y'all, that's brutal. That's amazing. I love it. You win. What does that mean? Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Doesn't change shit. On your record, it will say you have four murder convictions and not five now. Does that make you feel better? You know how four people are dead? You're still going to die.

You're still going to die. It's kind of like if you had a menu and you had grilled cheese on it and you took the grilled cheese off it when you made a new menu, but you still make grilled cheese. It's still on there, but it's just not on the technical menu now. But if you need it, it's in the back.

We got cheese and we got bread, so don't fucking around. So, 92, he's petitioning for rid of habeas corpus and the whole deal. They deny the petition. There's U.S. Supreme Court again denies to listen to his ass too. 1996, he seeks federal habeas relief here. The district court denies the petition.

The court appeals of the Fourth Circuit, appeals the conviction or affirms the conviction. Now, though, 96, he's appealing on five claims here. He says one is related to the competence of his trial counsel, because no matter what, they'll say their counsel sucked. They could have the greatest lawyer in the world, which is fine. Because they didn't win. They didn't win, yeah. He wasn't that great. He didn't win.

If he didn't win, he has the worst counsel ever. Terrible. Three alleged errors in his trial uh three of alleging errors in his trial based on his incompetence and one challenging the adequacy of the virginia supreme court's appellate review so uh they are saying uh that he's saying that the court uh should have given more detailed instruction on mitigation that that was bullshit uh they should have given him the specific things he asked for talk about about my criminal record, my clean record. Talk about all that.

Basically, the same arguments he had before. His counsel didn't bring up that he had no record? Yeah, he did. But the jury, he wanted that special jury instruction from the judge. And they were like, yeah, you've said that already. You said that in your trial, bro. That's called the case. And you're closing arguments and everywhere else.

You've got plenty of opportunity to tell them that. Why do I need to tell them that? Yeah, we're good here. That's like if a judge said that, though, if I'm sitting on a trial and the judge, they do their case and they run through the trial, then the judge turns to me and says, now, everybody understand that man had a clean record until this event. Yeah. So as a jury, I'm looking at Yeah, I go. So what is it?

As a jury, I'm looking at the guy next to me like, is that? As a guy on the jury, I'm looking at the guy next to me being like, is the judge telling us that we don't fucking? I don't understand what he's saying. Is he telling us we acquit? We get out of here? I feel like, yeah. I feel like he's telling us that man didn't do it because he for sure was clean. Is the judge telling us that?

Yeah, what are we talking about? Is that what we're saying here? Is that what they're telling us? Or I'd be like, is that supposed to fucking matter? Did he? But he killed these people, right? At some point, anybody that does bad shit, at some point in their life didn't do bad shit. That's the thing. At some point.

When he was nine, he was a nice kid. I got to tell you. So is the judge telling us if I'm going to quit or is he telling us that this is his first time that he really fucked up? Yeah. Is the judge like Rahul that this guy fucked up? I think so, yeah. Is the judge being like, can you guys guy fucked up i think so yeah this judge being like can you guys believe he did nothing before nothing pretty it's amazing nothing i mean

no criminal record he didn't kill anybody didn't rob anybody it's pretty amazing honestly it's remarkable if you think about it none of us have that another thing the trial counsel's ineffective he says because the the counsel quote failed to to take advantage of what Buchanan sees in retrospect as a certain opportunity to have avoided the death penalty. So, in hindsight, he Monday morning quarterbacks this to where it could have done better, and then he wants to

fucking file shit on that. He contends that if he had pleaded guilty to the first four degree first, four first degree murder indictments, that the constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy would have precluded any further prosecution based on the same killings, and this means, he argues, that they couldn't have prosecuted the capital murder indictments. Wow.

What? No, that's not how it works, number one. You could have pled guilty, but that doesn't mean that you made a deal. That doesn't mean that the prosecutor doesn't have to seek the death penalty. They can say, yeah, you can plead guilty, and I'm still seeking the death penalty in sentencing. Nice of you to plead guilty and save us all the time and money of a trial, but you're still getting executed. They don't have to do that.

A lot of times that's the concession. You plead guilty, we'll take the death penalty off the table. That's how you get people to fucking plead guilty to murder. And the court says the distinction would not have made a goddamn lick of difference. None of that. It doesn't implicate any of the interests protected by the double jeopardy clause, which is the shit he's trying to pull right now. He also says the review was unconstitutional by the state Supreme Court. Blah, blah, blah.

The court says, quote, He is swinging. Oof, for the fences. Finding no error, we affirm the judgment, denying Buchanan's petition for a writ of habeas corpus. Affirmed. Eat dicks. Bye. April 9th, 1997 is Execution Day. Wow. Execution Day.

How does it feel to be a winner, sir? Oof, yeah. You won. You're a big winner. Not even 10 years later. It's already going down. You got that fifth one off the table. You're a big winner. Not even 10 years later. It's already going down. You got that fifth one off the table. You're a big winner.

Good job. Poof, man. Hey, congratulations on your big legal win. We're going to celebrate today with your last meal. You're a regular fucking Perry Mason over here. What do you say we celebrate with a last meal? His last meal, by the way, kept confidential based on his request. What a dick.

What a dick, right? An asshole to the end? Fuck you, Douglas. I don't even want to know what I mean. I don't even call you Doug, Douglas. Dickhead. You fucking jerk. I want to know what you ate.

Yeah, what the fuck? That brings us joy, asshole. We want to know. I hope it was some fucking sardines. You know it was something terrible. Anchovies. Reminds me of my childhood. Anchovies.

That was it. So four hours left to die terrible. Anchovies. Reminds me of my childhood. That was it. So four hours left to die. Here he's preparing. He does the whole thing. You know, the ministers come in and you eat and you fucking, you do your whole last spiel. People come and talk to you and you're getting prepared. What a weird preparation. Four hours left when the U.S. Supreme Court halts the execution.

All those bastards. Of Doug Jr. Four hours shy of dying. In the one paragraph ordered, the court agreed to stay the execution until it decides whether to hear his appeal. So basically, we need a second to review this to see if we're going to hear it, so don't kill him quite yet. Calm down for a second. We need to consider if we're going to consider.

Hold on. This is ridiculous. They said if they don't hear the appeal, the stay would end automatically and a new execution date would be immediately set. If they agree to hear the case, it'll be extended. I hope it's for 10 minutes from now. Yeah, right? So one of Buchanan's lawyers said, quote, he was very pleased with that. Well, no shit.

He gets another last meal. They do end up hearing the case. Yeah? Later in the year, they hear that case over the fall. And January 21st, 1998, they have a decision delivered by Chief Justice Rehnquist. And they said the quote, the case calls this case calls on us to decide whether the Eighth Amendment requires that a capital jury be instructed on the concept of mitigating evidence generally or on particular statutory mitigating factors. We hold it does not. The absence of an instruction on the concept of mitigation and instructions on particular statutory defined mitigating factors did not violate the 8th and 14th Amendments of the United States Constitution.

The judgment of the Court of the Appeals is affirmed. Go fuck yourself. March 18th, 1998 is going to be Execution Day. Terrific. They are going to execute him by lethal injection. They take him in. He is strapped to the table. Yeah.

And they get all the witnesses there. Another confidential last meal? Or does he only get that one? Confidential. Bastard. Confidential. I fucking hate this guy. Another dickhead with two last meals, number one.

Yeah, yeah. We've got two of these dickheads. What a fucking jerk. Not even enough to tell us. Not even like, I'll let this one out. Nope. What did you have for dinner? Can't tell you. Can't tell you.

Can't tell you. Why is that secret? You torture and cocksuck. You're going to die, literally. What do you care? You torture me, too? You already tortured four people, you fucking jerk. And why are the prison officials listening to him?

Right. He had a fucking bouquet of ham and cheese, all right? You happy now? He gets no privacy anymore, by the way. No. Why is this confidential? It's not medical. I don't give a fuck.

I want to know. Virginia allows you to keep it confidential if you want. Super weird. A bunch of the prisoners had confidential last meals, too. I don't understand if they don't want people to get mad at them. You're dead. What do you care? Who gives a shit? So, March 18th, 1998, like I said, execution day. He's strapped

down. All the witnesses are there. There's family witnesses. There's the whole deal. They strap him in. He smiles at the witnesses, which is an odd. That's always an odd one when they're smiling. Now, if he smiled and said something. Happy birthday, Lucy, or some shit. No, no, if he smiled and said something like dark, it'd be really weird if he smiled and was like,

I enjoyed killing all of them. I'm just mad I didn't drink their blood or something crazy like that. Then you're like, oh, yeah, get him. He sits up, smiles, or sits up, looks over, smiles, and his last words are, quote, get the ride started. I'm ready to go. Wowza. That's what he said. Get the ride started.

Get the ride started. I'm ready to go. Well, what did you have for dinner, sir? And that's it. And they execute him. We're not ready for you to go yet. Doesn't take very long before he goes down. And he is dead.

Doug Jr., Doug Sr., the whole damn family's dead. Wiped off the face of the fucking earth. Jesus. Christiane in prison forever. There is, out of this whole entire thing, there is one surviving outside of prison person, and that is that baby. That baby, who I assume probably has no fucking idea about any of this. Let's hope.

Let's hope this baby doesn't know shit. But chances are this baby was adopted out, has no idea any of this shit happened. Kid is 31 years old today. Yeah, and no idea that they were inside their mother while their mother was an accessory to four horrible homicides that their father committed. So super crazy case. Wow. Back to Virginia, back into the States. Back into the fold. Sweet Pete.

Virginia. Last time we were in Virginia, it was an heiress killing her horseman boyfriend. Her polo-playing boyfriend. In Warrington. And now this is a way different thing. We went to just like your basic family dispute over with some squirrel hunting gear.

So, tried to do a different case from the state. Good Christ. You'll kind of see that I'll do that as we go through. That's so weird. That was how long ago it was? 1987. No, no. That was the last time we were in the state for the show.

Yeah. It was like episode, I don't know, 9, 11, something like that. Fucking long time ago. The first 10 within the first 10. So yeah, we're back again. That was a crazy one. Yeah. Or 12, something like that.

But we're back again through Virginia. That is Virginia there. Wow. That is Amherst, Virginia, in the crazy Buchanan insanity. What the fuck? Yes, if you like that show, and if you like this show in general,

please get on iTunes and give us five stars. What are you thinking here? For sure. Please. It takes a lot of work, and it really helps us out on the business end a lot. It's a lot of work for us, and it's not too much work to sign into iTunes and hook it up. So, of work and it really helps us out on the business end a lot. It's a lot of work for us and it's not too much work to sign into iTunes and hook it up.

So please, please, it helps us out. Also, I have a rant. Don't worry, not a rant, but the bow is coming up. We're going to have a long list of producers who are just the most amazing people in the world. We say that and it sounds like we're just saying that, but we mean it. It's every time.

From the bottom of our hearts. If you want to be one of these people, you can go on patreon.com slash crimeinsports, and you can make a donation. Or go to PayPal and make a one-time donation using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com. If you want to get a hold of the show, that is no problem. You can do it at Murder Small on Twitter, facebook.com slash smalltownpodpod and crimeandsports at gmail.com. Don't forget live show this weekend. Holy shit.

Boston, 1 p.m. Laugh Boston. It's going to be so cold. Oh, so cold. And 4 p.m. is Crime and Sports. 7 p.m. is Sold Out. And also go to our site there, shutupandgivememurder.com slash live. And you can see all the tour dates and our locations and buy their damn tickets

and get their threat uh crime and sports dot threadless dot com don't forget that for all your merchandising needs uh now also uh we had uh last week had a little a couple of things to say about podcasters right and uh and their self-important ones and the ones who think they're they're homicide detectives and the ones that act like they're self-important ones and the ones who think they're homicide detectives and the ones that act like they're doing something important for the world. Magnifying glass. Rather than the truth is you found out how to make a living without having a real fucking job.

That's the truth of it all. That's the thing that these motherfuckers will never say to you guys. I've actually heard people who quit, these guys who quit their real jobs that they had that were like actual good jobs to podcast forever not because they said holy shit i don't have to go to work for 40 hours plus a week i can literally build a studio in my house and i can like just do this at home and not have to go anywhere and make a living right wow i found a way to scam the system right rather than say that and you guys would be like hey good for you rather than say that they go there's just there's so much good that needs

to be done much wrong people need to be helped i i need to concentrate so yes that's the type of person we're talking about uh and there's a few specifics but i i'm going to be real real honest with you guys i don't listen to all the true crime podcasts. The reason we do two true crime podcasts is because I love true crime. In the beginning when this started, I loved true crime, and I hated the way true crime podcasts are presented generally. I fucking despise it. I don't like it. So I said, we're going to do it different. So I don't listen to it.

Monotone voices and boring fucking personality. Yes, or not funny, a lot of them. And there's some that are funny, too. That's the other thing, too. Don't get me not and there's some that are funny too that's the other thing too don't get me wrong there's some that are good some that aren't serial is phenomenal i mean there's so many that are really good that are actually done well last podcast on the left we really like those guys love those guys these guys are fucking hilarious man things like that so we don't we don't have any none of those people take themselves too seriously also and some people take themselves seriously. They're so proud of themselves.

Yeah, some people are proud of them. And some people who we don't even fucking know who they are. No idea. No idea. Actually got on Twitter on Crime and Sports that they actually tweeted at Crime and Sports saying, you talking about me? And we had to look at their profile to see who the fuck they were because i never heard this you know if you feel like it means something to you he had a check mark next to his name and that

apparently made him feel like motherfuckers just know who he is and i don't understand whatever that check mark means in your little circle of people who know the fuck you are i don't care that shit means nothing to me nothing you know? There's fitness bloggers with check marks, motherfuckers. So people with 1100 followers with fucking to me, blue check mark. That means absolutely nothing to me. The check mark.

So to cut for someone to come up and say, it's just hilarious for someone to come up and like, try to be like, Oh, you're talking shit about me. Posturing is fucking ridiculous. Who do you think you are? That's the other thing.

Who do you think you are? You're going to step to us? Is that what it is? Like we're in high school or something. You talk about me, bro. Maybe I am. I don't know. Maybe we are.

I don't know. Let me find out who you are and then I'll tell you. How's that? So probably not because we don't know who you are. You want to wear these shoes out or do you need a box, sir? But the fact that knowing nothing about you but that and your tweet and your bio based on the fact that you thought so. Right. Maybe it is.

Probably. It probably was. Not intending to be about you, but if the shoe fits, motherfucker, try it on. Wear them out the store. Yeah, they look great on you. Rock the shit out of them. Walk them on out, bitch. So that's the way it is.

And I'm going to be real honest, too. If you're not, this is just an advice for anybody out there. It's like, you know, people who do podcasts who aren't comedians. Don't start fights with comedians. No, it's not going to be. It's not going to work out. You're not going to win. No, it's not going to work out.

You can say whatever you want and we'll say terrible things about you, but it'll be really funny when you say that'll be the difference. People will enjoy it. So we'll be right and people will laugh at you. Whereas you can't beat that You can't beat that We're not some blogger turned podcaster We're people used to I'm not some dude that bought a Zoom

And read a book I'm dumb as fuck and I'll make fun of you Yes If I'm on a stage and some super drunk guy Yells at me I will make him cry Put it that way That's where I'm geared for stage and some super drunk guy yells at me, I will make him cry. Right. Put it that way. That's where I'm geared for.

So that's where we're at. So don't fuck with us. Thank you very much. Move along. Mind your own fucking business. And unless I mention your name, it ain't about you. Right. I can give a fuck about you.

Enjoy. So that aside, sorry to go off on that. Just wanted to have a little clarification. Right. And we're just blown away by how silly some people are. It's ridiculous. Are you talking about me? You are. You're talking about me. You can say anything you want about me. I don't give a fuck. I won't tweet at you. I won't give

you the time of day. And I won't assume you know who I am unless you mention my name. I won't assume you know who I am. For someone just to assume they must know who I am. That is definitely me. I'm important. Look at my, I have a check mark. Look at me. I host a podcast that I've never fucking heard of or I've seen, but I don't know anything about it. By the way, I listened for five seconds. It's boring as fuck. Anyway. Yeah. I'd shoot myself if I had to listen to that fucking thing. So that said, let's talk about the greatest people in the world. We've talked about douchebags. Now let's move on to the list of the most fantastic people in the world.

Jimmy, why don't you hit us with that list right now? Unbelievably, every week, Chrissy Ann Costaldi, Jess Landgren, and Sarah Gilbo are fantastic people. Thank you, guys. You guys are so sweet, and we really appreciate you. Thank you very much. Andrea Ramey, Mitchell Bowler, Joshua Cobb, Autumn Allen, Jeanette Klum. No, that is not Klum. God damn, I'm a child and can't write.

Num, is that a K-N-C-M? What? No, it's not. I don't know what I did. K-N-C-M is not a last name. No, it's not. I don't know what I did to Jeanette's last name. I don't know what country that would be from.

There's no way I can pronounce that. Everyone has at least one vowel, don't they? Is it H-U-L-M? H-O-L-M. Home. That's Jeanette Holm. That's who that is. That makes much more sense.

Unbelievable. Derek Hellenberg, Ted Cyrus, Brandon Shaw, Sarah Martin, Stacey Huffaker, James Cook times two this week. Thank you, man. You're an amazing dude. Robert Dye, the hypnotic librarian. I'm not sure what that is. Google that.

I hope it's a business. I'm not sure what that is. Google that. I hope it's a business. I'm not sure at all. Hannah Risley, Raffi Madigan. I hope so. That'd be amazing. Motherfucking hypnotic librarian. What's up? That's what it is. He's a terrible rapper, though. Teresa Shushanflug? He just says what's up over and over again.

It's his constant what's up. I love the Shushanflug name because we knew that was going to kill you. Sarah actually saw that and went, I love it when Jimmy has to pronounce this one. Is it P-F? Is that Flug? Or is it Plug? Shushan. I got Shushan.

Shushan Flug. Fuck it. Adrian Overall, Jessica Chase, Katie Heisel, thank you so much. Thank you, Katie, for your charts and your graphs and your help and your donations. She sends us donations and time between the shit that she makes. Thank you. You're the best, Katie. And we'll see you so much. Thank you, Katie, for your charts and your graphs and your help and your donations. She sends us donations and time between the shit that she makes. Thank you. You're the best, Katie. And we'll see you this April.

Definitely. Thank you so much. Sherry Holland, Luke Haronsky. Haronsky. Karonsky. Karonsky. Shit. Tristan Stevenson.

Kathleen Thill. Thank you, Kathleen, for being a part of this every goddamn week. Yeah, Kathleen, always. We love you. Melissa Neufeld. Jane Richards. Claudia Schertl, Timothy Young, Jacob the Zookeeper sends me snaps of like, the dude's a zookeeper.

That's awesome. He gives me like close-ups of the bears' fucking faces. I thought you... Right? No, no, no, no. Before you had the close-ups, like the bears' fucking, it's awesome. Why would you want pictures of the bears' fucking... It's right in its face.

It's like the best... That's awesome. It's fucking incredible. I don't even have to throw them zag nuts. Right outdoors again, baby. Tara Hayes, you're fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much.

What an unbelievably kind gesture. Thank you so much. Emily Allen, Nathan Nolte. I don't know. I hope that's a relative of Nick. I really want that. I don't know why. Nick's such a great.

I love that man so much. He's hilarious. He's fantastic. And I want that. I don't know why. Nick's such a great I love that man so much. He's hilarious. He's fantastic and I want his family listening to this. Jesus Christ. That's all he does. He grunts in every movie and then curses through it. Is that a Patton Oswalt joke of Nick Nolte playing Han Solo?

What? It was a joke of Patton Oswalt's old stand-up with Nick Nolte playing Han Solo. I've been like, ah, Christ, Luke, the God, for Christ, Jesus, fucking, the goddamn Wookiees in the fuck, ah, Jesus, ah, Christ. That's fantastic. God damn it. Christopher Reed.

I hope that's kid in play. Yeah, that's kid. I want that to be in real life. Come on, that would be great if it was kid. Yeah, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, I love House Party. Leslie Root, June Johnson, Gretchen Oswald. Yeah, Gretchen Oswald.

Lauren Odom, Shelby Lasur, John Moody, Melissa Hoover, Keegan Bosch, Michelle Jolly. She's fantastic. Yeah, she's in Australia. She's so sweet. Thank you. Brandon Warnie, or Warn. I think it's Warn. He's in Minnesota.

He does the Midwest Swing podcast. He donated this week. Thank you, Brandon Warnie, or Warn. I think it's Warn. He's in Minnesota. He does the Midwest Swing podcast. He donated this week. Thank you, Brandon. I appreciate it. And then I guessed it on his show, too, if you want to take a listen. Anthony Elbert, Cora McBeth, Jennifer Brashears, Jessica Skinner, Mariah Menhir, Madeline Berry, Holly Hamilton, S. Wagner. There's no—it's probably Scott.

Might be Steven. Swagger. Yeah, it might be Swacker. You never know. You never know. David Stanich. Alexia. Alexia Gordon.

Gavin, no last name. Keegan Bowen. Bowen. For sure Bowen. Look up Bowen. Sam Lichtenstein. That was fucking impressive. Lichtenstein's a place, though.

Can you clap for me? Fuck. You should... It's a place. Really? I don't know what that place would be. place, though. Can you clap for me? Fuck. You should... It's a place. Really? I don't know what that place would be. Jesus, girl. We got to get Jimmy a map, but we're going to talk about that.

Maybe Sam's just from Lichtenstein. Maybe he's from Lichtenstein. Sam from Lichtenstein. Maybe. Chris Reid again. Cody McCall. Molly. No last name.

Emma Rostein. Leah Maddox. Stephanie Fisher. Jessica Hastio. Vicky Frederick. Junior Mitchell Jr. Peeler Jr. Jr. Oh. Or Beeler. They listen. Yeah. They know Vicky Frederick, Junior Mitchell Jr., Peeler Jr., Jr. Oh.

Or Beeler. They listen. Yeah. They know the juniors. Junior Mitchell Jr., Beeler Jr., Jr. That's who it is. So it's Mitchell Beeler. I'm going to go with.

Right. Mitchell Beeler II. Possibly a junior. Right. At least once. Larry Mosca. Mosca. Nicole.

Nicole. Ah, fucking hell. She donated twice, too. Oh, thanks, Nicole. Dina. Dina Becks. Dina Burks. What the shit is. Oh, thanks, Nicole. Dina Becks? Dina Burks? What the shit is that last name?

Danzer. Danzer. I don't know why I put a B in it. There's no B in that name. Danzer. I don't know. I'm sorry, Nicole. Your last name's a fucking brutal one.

Would I sit here and watch him try to read the names? It's great because it's like watching a child try to open a package that has those twist tie things and they don't know they're there and they just keep trying to pull it and they're just so confused. That's what Jimmy's doing. He doesn't get it.

You have to come in with scissors and go, hold on, clip, and they go, oh, it's Danes. Oh, the Icelandic. Okay, I see. Trevor Corey, Camila Herrera, Megan McMahon, Hannah Risley, Melanie Harrison, Jake Labier, Labier, Labier, Jake Labier, Tracy Kelly Van Dyke, Wilnia, Wilnia Merced, Amanda Howell,

Lizzie Goldstein, Bliss Bednar. I think that's right. Mandy McMaster, Jill Roth, Lisa Copeland, Nicole Redshaw, AJ Vera, Lindsey Zimmerman, Judith Keel, Jenny Walker, Miriam with no last name, Lee Nemeth, Nathan. It's all your fault, Nathan. Nathan Hibbett. Lizzie Tebow. Jem Vasquez. Vicky Frederick. I already said that one. Alexia Malloy. Lisa Collins. Michelle Gerber-Anderson. Megan Waller. Walker. God damn it.

It's just... He got it on the comeback. That's all right. Megan Walker. Eden Finelli. Jordan and Brad Kading. We got your back, man. Carolyn Jeffries. Amber Rachel. Angela Banks Mason. Dylan Robertson.

David Bouch. Erica Jones. William Hickson III. Nicole Davis. I already said that one, but I'm saying it again. Chester Coffin. Lisa and Colin Young. Amanda Stamp.

Alexa Trockelman. Fuck yeah. It's just Alex. God. Trockelman is the last name, and Trockelman. Fuck yeah. It's just Alex. Trockelman is the last name and I fuck up Alex. Yeah, you must. The four letter first name. Right. Brandon Griffith, Zach Dubois, Ashley Collins, Daniel Rickles, Cody Spence,

and Lindsey Greer. You guys from the bottom of my heart, thank you for everything. Thank you guys. Amazing. I really appreciate you being such fucking amazing people. So thank you so much. Really guys, guys. Amazing. I really appreciate you being such fucking amazing people. So thank you so much. Really, guys. Couldn't do it without you. This show wouldn't be a show without you.

No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't because I would be working a 40-hour-a-week job and not having time for this because you have to sleep. And there's only so many hours in the day. So thank you, guys. You make it so actually I can dedicate like two full-time jobs worth of time into this. My life would be much easier if I just had a regular job and did comedy and stuff like that. But no. 401K and health insurance and shit.

We're doing this, goddammit. I love it even more. And we're not going to stop. Jimmy, what if one of these people wanted to tell you not to stop? How would they do that? If you want to find me and tell me that you like me, you can find me. You can tell me that you hate me. I can give a fuck.

He doesn't care. At Wisman Sucks. W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Thank you guys so much for being so fun. I appreciate it. And you can get a hold of me at JimmyPIsFunny or copy and paste my name from the show description. There's an I in there. You'll fuck it up. And also,

if you're a podcaster who feels like I might be talking about you, go ahead and use that address. Don't bother doing it at the account because that might be me. Jimmy might see it. It might be my wife, Sarah, who would like to tell you 10 times more than I would to eat dicks. You should see. She's way meaner than me.

That's why I love her. But if you do that, I'll personally tell you to eat dicks and go fuck yourself. So feel free to tweet at me and we'll have a spat or two or really I'll just tell you to eat shit and have a good one. Sayonara, asshole, and send you on your merry fucking way. With that said, guys, we love you. We love you. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

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Your budget stretches further at Mattress Firm. Restrictions apply. Valid on participating locations only. While supplies last for all the details, visit mattressfirm.com. Wall money. I'm Ed Donohue with an AP News Minute. President Trump spoke today in Kansas City about immigration. We want people that can love our country and people that can help our country. The president wants Congress to fully fund his immigration plan, including money for his border wall. They're playing games. They're playing political games. I actually think the politics of what they're doing is very bad for them, but we're going to very soon find out. Maybe I'm not right, but usually I'm right.

Sources say President Trump will nominate the Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley as his next top military advisor. A deputy shot and killed during a mass shooting at a bar in Southern California last month died from friendly fire. FBI analysis confirmed that this was a rifle round fired by a CHP officer. This bullet struck Sergeant Helus in the chest and struck his heart. 12 people in all were killed at the country music bar on Wall Street stocks sharply lower ahead of the closing bell. I'm Ed Donohue. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself

by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very

own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.