Small Town Murder - #581 - Sexy Sunday School Teacher Slaughter - Enid, Oklahoma

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

This week, in Enid, Oklahoma, when a very upstanding couple is attacked, it leaves the husband dead, and the wife with a bullet wound. The problem is, nothing is as it seems. This nice, Sunday school teaching couple has also had some problems, mainly that this injured wife has been having affairs with seemingly everyone they know. Including a fellow Sunday school teacher, who looks extremely guilty. But was she in on it??Along the way, we find out how food trucks originally started, that no matter how much you want a relationship to work, both people have to want it, and that if you're going to claim that people tried to murder you, you should have more than a minor flesh wound!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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eca. That's audible.com slash wonder eca. When a young woman named Desiree vanishes without a trace, the trail leads to Kat Torres, a charismatic influencer with millions of followers. But behind the glamorous posts and inspirational quotes, a sinister truth unravels. Binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. This week in Enid, Oklahoma, the horribly cruel murder of a well-liked church deacon seems like an awful random attack, but there's actually a tangled web of plot that makes the whole thing so much more dastardly. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, incredible episode of Small Town Murder. It's quite the adventure today, man.

It is stuff going everywhere, a wild time. Can't wait to get into this. Before we do, very, very quickly, definitely make sure to head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Get your tickets, first of all, tickets for live shows. Virtual live show is the next one up.

That is April the 19th. It's our 420 virtual live show, which means costumes, which means I have crazy bongs to force Jimmy to smoke out of at different intervals in the show, just like a regular live show, except you can be anywhere in the world with internet, and you can watch it and buy it or do whatever you want with it for two weeks after the show, too.

Very excited. Get in there and do that. And also, get your tickets for regular live shows. May, we are in St. Louis in Chicago. St. Louis has been sold out. Chicago, still some tickets there at the Riviera, beautiful venue. Get your tickets for the rest of the year too,

because they're selling fast. I think San Diego, Madison, Portland, a lot of sellouts so far, Grand Rapids. So get in there if you'd like to go to a show, definitely this year. Shutupandgivememurder. murder calm listen to our other two shows as well crime in sports which we have What's about looking like it's gonna be about a nine or ten part evil Knievel series going on right now So you don't have to like sports you just have to like crazy people to enjoy that and also listen to your stupid opinions

Where we talk about some of the craziest reviews of anything and everything on earth. So it's a lot of fun. Then you should get Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. Tell you right now the best bargain in podcasting. Anybody five dollars a month or above you're going to get a whole lot. First of all, soon as you subscribe, you're going to get hundreds and hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription

Then you get new ones every other week one crime and sports one small-town murder and how much of that do they get Jimmy? Every drop every bit all of it drop of it. That's right this week for crime and sports We're gonna talk about some cheating scandals including maybe the craziest thing I've ever heard the Spanish Paralympic team, where no one was actually disabled in any way, shape, or form. So we'll talk about all of that. Then for Small Town Murder, honestly one of the craziest stories

I've ever heard in my life, documentary on Netflix called American Nightmare, and I read a book about it too, like a 12 hour audio book, it's a lot, and it is kinda, you'd think it's a Sherry Papini situation, it's a stage kidnapping and people are lying, but then maybe not, but then maybe, it's crazy! Oh my God, I can't wait to tell the story.

It's gonna be so much fun. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. So check all that out and more over there. And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. That said, disclaimer time. Here we go. Yeah, Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name on that shout out, real end of the show as well that said disclaimer time here we go yes, Jimmy I'll mispronounce your name on that shout out real good. Don't we worry about that disclaimer. It's a comedy show

We are comedians, and we will make jokes, but that doesn't mean that the story isn't 1000% completely real in every detail nothing is exaggerated for comedic effect or anything stupid like that no no no we We stay on it and what we do is here, there's a lot of jokes to make. That's the thing, here's what we don't do though. We don't make jokes about the family or the victim or the victim's family. Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

See how that works there? Yeah, there's plenty to make fun of. The fact that someone's going, I think I can get away with this with zero murder experience That's a crazy thought right there and plenty to make fun of we'll talk about all that and more If you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together We might not be the show for you, but we might be that's the other thing You never know give it a try give it a try and no complaining later because you've been warned that said I think it's time everybody

Let's go. Let's all, everybody. Let's go. Let's all sit back. Let's clear the lungs here, arms to the sky, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. OK. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to Oklahoma here, middle of the country madness, baby.

We are going to Enid, Oklahoma, and we will explain a little bit more about the town stuff after we get done with the town stuff, but for now we'll start off Enid, Oklahoma, northwestern Oklahoma. It's about an hour and a half to downtown Oklahoma City from Enid, about an hour 45 to Tulsa.

So right between, and a hard place there right between the two yeah yeah Tulsa has I believe the most terrifying first 48 episodes ever every one of them is terrifying it's about an hour and 20 minutes also to sealing Oklahoma which was our last Oklahoma episode episode 535 the murder bones mystery sure that was a wild episode this is in Garfield County area code 580 the motto for Enid they have several oh okay we have the wheat capital of the United States yeah which I mean sure I'll buy that you seem like there's probably a lot growing there the Queen Wheat City of Oklahoma They're really leaning on the week I mean if you're the capital of the United States

You're obviously the Queen Wheat City of your state and then I don't even know what this is the Purple Martin capital of Oklahoma Is that a euphemism for a Hard-on, what are we? I don't know what that is exactly. I'm not sure So a little bit of history quickly here prior to the land run of night of 1893 The land where Enid is was part of Oh County in the Cherokee outlet and was occupied by the Cherokee people Following the Trail of Tears. This is where Yikes. Yeah, we're sent here. It was then known as skeleton Okay, this place and then in 1889 some guy from the railroad said this that's a terrible thing what is it called

skeleton that's crazy so he renamed the station the railroad station Enid after a character in Alfred Lord Tennyson's idolsols of the King as we you know we all know that obviously Though I don't know so That is how it happened, but there's actually a different story of how the town got his name That's more fun actually than that and dumber one is about like some literary thing a classic And then this is this according to this, in the days following the land run, some settlers decided to set up chuck wagons and cook for people that were coming by.

Little roadside, first roadside diners type of thing. And they would, they hung a sign that said, yeah, first food trucks. They hung a sign that said dine. I was just gonna say this is backwards. Yes. What? And they said some of the people turned the sign backwards and then it read Enid and that's the name stuck.

But that's not true. But they find that to be a better origin story than a literary reference. They're like, I like that better. Okay. Review books and stuff. Nevermind that. Here is five reviews of this town,

since we've never been here, we don't know anything about it. Here's five stars. Like I have said before, where? This is, you're in public now. Like I've told my family for years, great. A lot of hillbillies like to start sentences, like I say, or like I said,

like my grandmother does it. say or like I said like It's like baby you didn't say this yet. This is the first time you but she has Alzheimer's though Your grandmother might have actually thought she did say it or she might have said it in 1968 and think that was five minutes ago We don't know five minutes because she thought it and didn't say it out. That's the other thing. Yeah. Yeah, she's Cut her some slack, Jimmy. Like I have said before, this experience is amazing, but it is kind of off, kind of off small. So I think they mean of small.

It's kind of a small town. Here's four stars. Enid is very boring, but I like that. Okay. I like the boring. I've lived here for about three years, and it's fine for me. I have no problem with Enid being boring unlike all my friends.

Nothing bad here happens. A low crime rate here in Enid. We'll be the judge of that. We have stats. There only was one big issue that has happened in Enid but again nothing happened. The issue was threats made the Enid high school which I go to and nothing happened when this threat was made the police were on it they covered the whole school in secret of course but you could tell I got to admit nothing happens at all not even crime so it's a little boring. All right here's one star. Sure would appreciate my neighbors had getting sawed off just for some just getting some action.

Sure would appreciate my neighbors Ed getting sawed off just for some excitement around here. Just give me some action. Give me some goddamn action in this joint. Like a drug gang maybe. Missing kid for a couple hours. Anything. Big like a North Hollywood bank robbery type of deal. One of those.

Give me something like that. Even if they find the kid tomorrow I'm fine with it. It's okay. One star. The city of Enid as a whole is one of the most boring cities I've ever lived in this person doesn't like the boring apparently It's like the city doesn't want to build anything that will attract out-of-town tourists. Yeah. Yeah, there is the stride center Oh, yay, you all won't pay for good entertainment I guess they have a venue where people can come but they don't draw there apparently

Yeah, we don't get suggested. Do you guys want to go to Enid on your next tour ever? That never comes up. City of Enid officials don't do what the residents that elect them claim, that elect them to do. They do what they want to do and at their own pace. If you want to open a business, the paperwork will be held back and you won't be able to. Okay, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. That's crazy. So yeah, you want boring, like retirement style boring, come to Enid. Actually, you wanna be able to enjoy your days off

with the family and drive downtown, plus hours, then well, you make the decision. I don't know what you're talking about. And then finally, one star, maybe the greatest review of anything I've ever heard. This is for a whole town, mind you. There is one taxi that is very sleazy looking. One star, whole town. One shitty taxi the whole town's ruined. People of this town, 52,129. So it's a decent sized place. It's a small town, but it's a big small city.

The little, a few more males than females, which is odd. Maybe that has to do with farming and oil stuff possibly. This is also a tornado alley fucking place. I know I've heard of it for 20 years. Oh it is, yeah. Every time I've driven through Oklahoma, I've been in some sort of tornado warning. Every single time I've done it.

It's crazy. We had to stay there one time and like the lady at the hotel was like, oh yeah, there's a tornado warning. So keep an eye on that. You know, go in the bathtub and we're like, what? And she's just like, yeah, in case it comes through. We're like, is it going to come through? She's like, you never know. Okay, great. Sounds good. Grab a bottle of wine and draw back. That's it. Just hang out in the bathtub median age 34.9 48 percent married here 18 percent are single with children So less married than average few more single with children than average race here

72.8 percent white 3.5 percent black wa point.5% black, 0.8% Asian, 13.5% Hispanic, 3.3% Hawaiian Pacific Islander, which is- Is that right? As high as I've seen in any place other than Hawaii and California or Alaska really, so- Pacific Islands. Yeah, that's a lot. I don't know if there's a community here that-

Maybe natives are just clicking that one because the natives aren't options or something? I don't know. Like I know in Utah there's a big Samoan population there. So I don't know if there's like, if all half of Fiji has come to Enid. I'm not sure, who the hell knows. Religious here, they're pretty religious.

58.7% of the people here are religious. And the biggest one is 17.6% Baptist. As we know, the Baptists are the Catholics of the wheat fields, obviously now we found out here, since the Northeast is all Catholic and otherwise there. The unemployment rate here is 3.7, which is below the national average. It's very low. We're really low 3.7. The median household income here is $57 thousand seven hundred seventy two dollars a year

Which is less than the national average is about sixty nine thousand But everything's so fucking cheap and the cut that's the thing the cost of living here is low 100 is regular average in the United States here at 72. Oh Way low housing is the cheapest of everything. Yeah median home cost here 126 thousand four hundred dollars The cheapest of everything. Median home cost here $126,400. What? That's extremely inexpensive. That's unbelievable. If you want to be bored, we have for you 940 bucks, which is about $300 less

than the national average and 350. Here's house number one, three bedroom, one bath, 1,578 square feet. And the listing is as such. This is the entire real estate listing. Okay. Quote, this home had a fire, H A D E sells as is and it looks believable. It's all burnt and like charred like on the outside you see where fire came and

like lick the fucking walls from the inside. It's crazy. There's no interior pictures. Looks like it's going to fall down any minute now. Three bedroom, one bath, 1,578 square feet of fire damage. $29,900 for that. I mean, you're buying the property and the footprint because you're just going to scrape it. You have to knock the house down.

There's no way to fix this. Here's a four bedroom, three bathbath, 2339 square feet. It looks like it's like that weird, you know that Arizona, like Santa Fe style with like the archway? Yeah, that's what it is. It's weird. It's way too southwest-y for,

I know Oklahoma's sometimes considered the southwest, but this is like straight New Mexico, Arizona type shit here. It's really weird. Four-bedroom, three-bath, Arizona type shit here. It's really weird. Four bedroom, three bath, 2339 square feet. It's $299,900. That's almost 3,000 square feet. That's not bad.

Not a lot of land though. It's a small lot. Then here's a three bedroom, four bath, T-Ball for each and every bee hole and one leftover. 3,995 square feet. This is on 21.7 acres. Big lot. Yeah. The Zillow listing says living space as a highlight.

Yes, it is. They say it's a thoughtfully designed living space. Upon entry, you'll be greeted by a stunning wood cathedral ceiling that leads into a large living room with captivating views of the gas fireplace and outdoor area. It's nice, but it's not one point five million dollars, which is what it costs. a large living room with captivating views of the gas fireplace and outdoor area. It's nice but it's not 1.5 million dollars which is what it costs. It's not that nice. 21.7 acres.

Yeah that'll do it. That's what it is but it's still of you know kind of flat. What are you gonna do out there? You know what I mean? Honestly. Yeah. Things to do here. Alright we have Simpson's Old Time Museum.

This is not an old time museum about the Simpsons either, which is what I thought. I got excited. There's 30 years of that. We can watch it. You could have it now. So they say visit Simpson's Old Time Museum and Skeleton Creek Productions Movie Studio

and step back into the old west. So it's like old Tucson basically Same shit with you know There are a lot of movies filmed in this area not that I know of I don't know I mean maybe I have no idea I have what you never heard about hop along Cassidy memorabilia Baseball collectibles train sets and a wide range of military items from the cavalry days through World War two So just any old shit they can find, they throw in there. That's all cool stuff, but they usually have their own museums. They just, here it all is in one thing here.

I mean, if you got a little bit of each, a hodgepodge, and then just slam it together, and that makes a museum. Now we got a museum. They say they have their own indoor movie sets, that was one of, or having their own indoor movie sets was always one of The goals of our production company with this in mind and having space to build we began our first movie set in 2003 Since that year we've increased the number of our sets and now have how many do you think? Seven several they don't even say

Listen to honky-tonk piano music and sip an ice-co cold sarsaparilla in the 1880s saloon. If you get too rowdy you might get taken to the marshals office and thrown in our 1880s jail. Jesus Christ. Visit our 1880s hotel lobby complete with stairway and see our hotel hallway, an authentic hotel room. It's just old time stuff here. Surrounding, oh what is this?

Oh, in the center of the museum is an authentic chuck wagon complete with a campfire and a cook. We're very jealous of Dodge City. Yeah, we really are. Crime rate in this area, what we are interested in here obviously, property crime is about 50% higher than the national average. Oh.

Shit is going down in Enid, man. Boring my ass. This place is hopping. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is exactly average. Okay. Exactly the national average. So I don't know what's going on in this town making people so angry or so upset or whatever it is, but there's some shit popping off here. That said, damn it, let's talk about some murder. Let's do it.

Okay, now, first of all, I have to say something here. This murder technically takes place within the boundaries of Oklahoma City. Oh. Okay? Now, the people are from Enid. Oh. They moved of Oklahoma City. Now, the people are from Enid. They moved to Oklahoma City. Now, we did not realize, team Small Town Murder did not realize that this took place

because when you hear it and you see the pictures, it's in this neighborhood that's, it's not like downtown Oklahoma City. It's out in the burbs and it looks very small townish. And then the people and the story, it sounds, it's our show, it's Small Town Murder. So it actually technically takes place in Oklahoma City. Damn it.

But the people are from Enid and they're in Northwestern Oklahoma City, which is technically on the way to Enid. So if you were almost, if you just go a further, you're going to end up in Enid. We'll put it that way. So it's almost needed. And we apologize for that. But like I said, when you hear the story, you're going to go, yeah, this is a small

town murder all the way. So it's fine. But we apologize about the screw up there. Either way. Here we go. It's suburban town murder. Either way. It's out there. Let's talk about a woman up there. Either way, here we go. It's suburban town murder. Either way, it's out there. Let's talk about a woman first here.

Brenda Evers, let's talk about. E-V-E-R-S, Evers. She's born on December 10th, 1963. She is described in a newspaper article as growing up, quote, in white bread normalcycy living a life so vanilla it was as if she'd stepped right out of a 1950s sitcom that's Brenda's growing up life very lots of dresses with that doily around the oh yeah that doily and

just a lot of like going down over to the soda shop. Yeah, she's at the soda shop drinking a soda, making like food for all of the men in the house. You know what I mean? Make your brother some food. Oh, OK. So she's a sandwich. Yeah, she was raised in Enid, San Jose, and a very conservative, very Christian household, very Christian-ish, and the family would do a big prayer before they ate and all that, just kind of your standard middle of the country, kind of Bible belt type of shit here.

They'll have big home cooked meals and all that kind of thing. One of her best friends from back in the day said she was just a typical sort of small town girl. I mean she was nothing out of the ordinary. That's what they say about her. Her family now, the Evers family, one neighbor said, I remember them being really quiet. The whole family was. They weren't very outspoken or anything. These are a stoic quiet people here. They said that a lot of that they thought might have been caution. You know what I mean? Just that's just how they

were. I guess her sister Kim said that she and Brenda learned to be very private growing up because they have a severely mentally disabled brother. And in the 60s, you basically hid that person in the attic. Like there was no, you know, people were a lot less likely to be, you know, just proud of their kids no matter what they are. And it was considered there must be something wrong with you or, yeah, God cursed you or whatever it is. There was a real kind of a just a stigma with that for a long time. It's too bad. It is, and they said that, but she said it actually, Kim said it actually helped them become stronger having a brother that had problems.

She said, because of my brother, we've both been very strong individuals, very careful and very guarded though. So a lot of private type of thing. One of her friends said she loved hanging out with Brenda and thought her parents were really nice and she had a lot of private type of thing. One of her friends said she loved hanging out with Brenda and thought her parents were really nice and she had a lot of respect for them. She said about Brenda's family,

they were a lot like my family. So, you know, that's made me feel comfortable. In the seventh grade, Brenda enrolled in baton classes at Enid Twirling Academy. A whole academy just for twirling. 52,000 people, we got a twirling academy. We got a twirling, a whole Academy just for twirling 52,000 people we got a twirling we got a and this is in like 1970 so there's probably well I shit well I bet there was

15,000 people back then they still had a twirling Academy useless Wow, there was eight to ten other girls her age at 6 p.m. Every Wednesday, so they found Ten girls a Wednesday to do this her instructor said for her to take baton twirling in junior high that's kind of a wholesome sport she was from a very wholesome family but these Belva lamb her senior twirling coach said that she was quote an average baton twirler at best Everything about her right up the middle imagine no matter what you did if 35 40 years later. They're like you know he really sucked at that when he was eight

Couldn't hit a t-ball for shit when he was seven. I'll tell you that right now. I remember that dumb bastard. It wasn't very good. He's just kind of a non-achieving, just a real... Right at the middle, useless fuck. Kind of a loser he was, I'm not going to lie. I mean, I could tell. I looked at the eight-year-old and they said, the kid's a loser. He's never going to get any better. I'll take his parents' money for the lessons for this shit. I mean, sure. He's never going to learn. I'm sure there's somebody who's got that quote locked and loaded for me. I'm sure. But she's really good at school work and she's very nice to her friends, she gets good grades.

One of her friends said she was one of our little group of students who all got straight A's. She played the trumpet and twirled for the band. She didn't talk about boys very much. Just real, this is like. She's frustrated. She can't fucking figure out this trumpet or that fucking baton.

But she's going to high school in like the 70s though. This is like dazed and confused times. And she's like, she's in the 40s. You know what I mean? It's a totally different disconnect. So Brenda was, not that she should be out like sucking dick and doing drugs, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying there's a different lifestyle going on.

I mean, this is post-Woodstock for Christ's sake. You know, it's just a different deal. Her friend said she was interested in school, studying, going to to church and helping others She was always the first one to offer to help She's also really good in home ec class Cooking cooking and sewing that yeah, yeah, or especially her her specialties here You never never know anything about that heats an iron like nobody's business. Can't twirl a baton. Even, even iron.

Just even. No wrinkles, no burn marks. Oh, forget about it. I heard Trumpet. A layer cake like a queen. So the problem is, none of this, she's not good socially, really. She has friends, but it's like her little group

of like smart kid friends and that's that. Some people consider her kind of an oddball One of her classmates named Brad said there wasn't much associating with her. She was so quiet and shy She went to the football games of course, but she never went out to the parties with us afterwards She yeah, she'd go home once the game was over. He then said she never drank or smoked or anything like that She was always real meticulous in how she dressed real conservative She always buttoned her clothes all the way up all the way all the way up to the neck baby. That's it You cover your collarbones no one wants to see that

No, no no no safe no, no. Save some. No, you can't. If you, if you have any room open, then the Satan can get right in there. That's how it works. The devil just jumps right in. Yeah. Once he's in there, you want to lock them all up, make sure he stays. So, um, in 1982, she's a senior in high school and she's starting to be less shy when she gets like a senior in high school and she's starting to be less shy when she gets like a senior in high school here. And she began dating a man here, or a young man I should say, he's a year older than her so not like anything

untowards going on. She began dating a man named Rob Andrew, who was about almost two years older than her. He studied advertising at OSU. So he went to Oklahoma State. Cowboy. Cowboy there, that's the college. And he's just rooting for Barry Sanders

like he wouldn't believe. So Brenda met Rob at the swimming pool during summertime is what Brenda's sister Kim said. So he got to see everything on display. I mean, granted, she was wearing a full wet suit buttoned up to the top. I mean, granted, she was wearing a full wetsuit buttoned up to the top. I mean, it was, she was real buttoned up, but still, yeah.

She had one of those like 1910s, like down to the knees outfits on. But she said, like Brenda, Rob came from a tight knit religious family as well. So same thing. Her sister said, I think their values were pretty much the same. Even though he was Baptist and she was Lutheran, and their religious beliefs, they were a lot alike.

Yeah. Wow. Being a non-religious person, it's all the same. I mean, I get that. If you're in whatever sect it is, you'll notice the tiny differences. But from the outside, you're all praying in the same place. So it seems similar.

Same book, same guy. And like I said, that's just my ignorance of the matter, but still. But in their religious beliefs, they're a lot alike, which you'd imagine so. So Brenda graduates from high school, and she's dating Rob Andrew here. Robert is his full name,

and his younger brother, I guess, used to frequent the same pool as Brenda, and that's how she met him. This is Rob's brother, Tom, said she always asked me about him. I went back and told him, quote, this chick at the pool's been asking about you. Oh!

That's how they met. Hey, there's a little hot piece of number here at the pool's been asking about you. Oh. That's how they met. Hey, there's a little hot piece of number here at the pool. I mean. Hot piece of number. Hot piece of number. You get three or four of those layers she's wearing off. I think she's got something going on under there. You know what I mean?

These are a hot piece of number, I'll tell you. Hot piece of number. She's a, God, I'm an idiot. What if everything we thought we knew about justice was wrong? In This Is Actually Happening's new series, A World Beyond Revenge, we explore a radical idea that justice can be about healing, not just punishment. Through five powerful stories, we meet people who've experienced unimaginable harm and those who caused it as they come together to seek something radical.

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So I he said this is another friend said I'm not surprised Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. Oh man. So he said, this is another friend said, I'm not surprised he fell for Brenda. She was so kind and sweet and so soft spoken, but he was a catch. That's the brother talking. She's getting a good one. My brother's a real catch, boy. I'll tell you something. You should see the bulge in those speedos, boy.

That's going to attract all the ladies. So after Brenda graduates, she spends a year at Lutheran College in Winfield, Kansas. She is Lutheran, I guess, holy shit. Before moving over to OSU to be closer to Rob. So that's what she wanted to do. And June 2nd, 1984, Brenda and Rob get married. Wow. Look at Brenda, getting married now. She did it, she fish Brenda and Rob get married. Wow.

Look at Brenda, getting married now. She did it, she fished herself a good one. And they get married, what church are they getting married in? That's the thing. Oh, Lutheran, what are they gonna do? The Redeemer Lutheran Church in Enid. So he said, listen, whoever's got more buttons wins. She's, I can't compete with her.

She's buttoned. Wow, he really, really loves her. He's doing everything for her. She's, I can't compete with her. She's buttoned. Wow, he really, really loves her. He's doing everything for her. He does, yeah. They seem to really love each other too. She pursued him and he's just. He's like, hell yeah. She'll do anything for her.

That's great. So they start setting up their life here. They lived and worked in Oklahoma City. Then they relocated to South Texas where Rob got a job down there. Rob went to school for advertising and Rob got a job down there. Rob went to school for advertising and he gets a job in advertising. And later on he'll be an advertising executive

and make six figure salary back and do pretty well for himself here. So Brenda stayed behind in Oklahoma as he settled in and then she quit her bank job in Oklahoma and followed him down there. So she found- Houston or what? I think it's outside of Houston, I believe.

So she found work at a bank down there and made some friends and all that kind of shit and they settled in and became part of the fabric of the community, wherever they were. Now, Rob apparently was less religious at one point than he became or he had like a lapse in it or something here. Because yeah, one of his friends said that quote, I knew he was a Christian because we had covered

that ground early on, but I also knew that he lived on that ragged edge and he liked to party. Hell yeah. Yeah, this is how he described to his friend why, how he was gonna change his partying ways, okay? He went to his friend and he said, on this day, this is his friend quoted here, Rob wanted me to know that things were different.

He held up a Susan B. Anthony silver dollar and asked, do you know the story of the Susan B. Anthony silver dollar? And he said, I replied, of course, I've seen them and have passed many through my hands and he said Rob said no no, that's not what I mean Yeah, I know yeah said do you know why they stopped making them which he really should have started out with that be specific The story of the dollar is that sounds like the origin. Yeah, that's vague. Yeah, that's vague So the guy said no not really, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me about it, you know, let's go after it

So Rob said look at this one He held it in full view then reached in his pocket and pulled out a quarter and said see see how closely the quarter and the dollar Are in size and appearance which is true. He This guy said, I examined them with astonishment. Yeah, they are pretty close. He never noticed this before. He's had them in his hand, but never noticed. That's about the size of a quarter. Yeah, I know all about them.

Anything that's that size, yeah, it's about the size of a quarter. Like, I think you noticed that. So he said, he explained further, people were always confusing them for quarters. They often passed and change as quarters on accident by accident So this guy said I scratched my chin and looked at him with an expression that said I suppose there's a point to this But waitin some it not much your point any minute now tap tap tap motherfucker. What do we got?

So he said he continued they were discontinued because they were too much alike and people were giving up dollars for quarters And he said the guy goes on to say then the real reason for Rob's Conversation with me was revealed Rob said quote. I was a Susan B Anthony dollar He's really making some analogies and doing some metaphor here People wanted me to attend parties because I always brought the party to life. And a lot of people said he was the life of the party back in high school and college and shit. Life of the party guy.

He said I told jokes and brought the liquor and to everyone at the party I was one of the gang. So the guy says now the look on Rob's face grew grave and tears formed in his eyes And he said The guy Rob said when I heard the Susan B Anthony dollar story and why it was canceled. I knew it was me I'm the dollar that was mistaken for a quarter. I Cheapened myself. Oh Yes, he's passed off as a with the rest of the quarters out there,

you know, drinking and having fun in college, doing normal shit. He could have just said, I think I'm better than being drunk all the time. That would have been fine. But you know, I always got a gift for metaphor. I'll give him that. He really connected this a lot. Confusing the mother fuck out of people.

So he said, now with tears running down his cheeks He said I knew Christ but no one knew me no one who knew me would ever have guessed it He said I was hiding my love for Jesus Yeah, the guy said then his face began to glow and he said quote I got a roll of Susan B Anthony dollars and went to every person in my office. This is Rob talking. I placed one on their desk and told them the same story I told you, then I asked for their forgiveness.

They're like, I don't care what you do outside of the office. You got the TPS report or not? I don't give a shit. If you drink, you don't drink. Show up on time and no one cares. Dude, I'm happy for you. Feel better.

Yeah, good. I mean, great. you don't need my forgiveness is what I'm saying. Live your life, I don't care. Love Jesus, don't, I don't, it doesn't matter to me. Doesn't affect me at all. The fuck is happening? At work is a weird place to do this.

Yeah. He said, I was a Christian in their midst and they had no clue because I was acting like I didn't know Christ. Did he vomit in their desk or something? That's what I mean, unless he came in with like a lampshade on his head and a half-dranken bottle of fucking Stoli going, hey, where are my... Balls hanging out the flap of his boxers or something?

I just, I came to shit in the office bathroom. I didn't know it was work time yet. I was, woof, boy, I was, woof. I wasn't in the office bathroom, that was my desk dad's is too stinky from my house is all unless he's doing that like who cares Yeah, no one at work cares what you're doing, but I mean for him though. This was a big yeah, just Transformative event so I'm good for him. You know everybody finds their own life Finds yourself everybody finds their own life and finds themselves. You don't have to make a fucking spectacle of it.

You don't have to involve others is my point. Yeah, nobody gives a shit. Yes, that's, if I'm sitting at a ad office, I don't care about this. No. At all. I'm like, do you have that tagline for whatever horse shit we're selling for that insurance company?

That's all we're- Unless you're making life miserable at the office because you're drunk. Yeah, that's what I mean. You're coming in. And you're just telling everybody I'm not gonna do it anymore. Sloshed.

Great, congratulations on not getting fired about it. Right, but I mean, but it shows that Rob is definitely a thoughtful person and he thinks that he's done something to people and he's a nice guy. That's all there is to it. Cries about it, Jesus. Yeah, so by 1988, Rob is ready to come back to Oklahoma.

He's had it with Texas. Brenda not quite ready to go, she likes it down there. She's made a lot of friends, she's having a good time. She doesn't wanna go. So they would fight repeatedly about moving. And Rob got a new job in Oklahoma City at Jordan Associates, where he's an ad executive and makes really good fucking money. So he wants to go there and he returned alone, leaving his wife behind

for a few months. He's like, well, I got to take this job and I'm going back. Eventually Brenda hooks back up with him in Oklahoma and returned to her old job that she had before they moved to Texas. She made friends with the wife of a man named Rick Nunley, we'll talk about later on, as early as about 19, February 1988. So they'd been married about four years. Rob seeks marital counseling from a pastor at that point. Oh, okay.

Because they fought about the move and he moved back by himself and trying to get her to come with and they don't have any kids yet or anything, so it's You know it's tough so he wants to he talks to the pastor and tries to get some counseling going on But I guess it works because she moves back there and then on December 23rd 1990 they have a daughter. Oh here we go and her name is tricity

spelled Tri-City And her name is tricity spelled Tri-City Why I there's a reason why yeah, okay. There is an absolute reason why One story said quote no one who this is hilarious. This was from the Oklahoman Oklahoman newspaper no one would have described Rob Andrew as crazy although he did do fun This is from someone from work, like bringing slushes to everyone at work because he decided July 11th should be seven 11 day. What he didn't decide that is that they, they do that and they give away slushies. It's a thing.

They were free guys. Or like naming his daughter, Tricity, because if she ever ran for public office, her slogan could be what? What? Electricity. I'm okay. Oh man. I hate it so much. Wow. Don't name your kid like a pun or word play, please. Just give your kid a normal name. In the hopes that maybe she does?

Otherwise, if I saw that name, if I went to school with a girl that was named Tricity, I would call her Tri-City all the time. Just call her T-Bone. T-Bone. So, Tricity is born. I quit. Dude, how else?

That's what I said. Is this real? I found this in two sources and when it's gotta be real, that's all there is to it. This is crazy. So, the couple's first child, Tricity, she's born and they decide that Brenda should stay home and take care of the kids and be a stay at home mom now. And her sister, Kim, said she really, really enjoyed working in the bank, but when they started having children, being a mom and being there to raise her kids became top priority.

They can afford to do that too because he makes really good money so they can afford to do this. It's a nice luxury to have the option to have if you want, to have one person be able to stay home so you don't have to send your kid with strangers or force your parents to do it or some shit. So September 27th, 1994 comes around and they have a son named Parker. Here we go. So yeah, they're doing well.

And Brenda through all of this, she's embracing kind of the stay at home mom lifestyle with this. She becomes, she stays really busy, that's the thing. She becomes a Girl Scout leader with Tricity. She becomes one of the homeroom moms at school and then also a Sunday school teacher as well at the church.

So yeah, so I mean she's doing a lot. She keeps herself real active and you know, very involved in the kids' lives, obviously. Good mom. And everybody says, very doting mother. She's known as a kind and considerate neighbor. One of the neighbors here had Alzheimer's and was not doing very well.

So she was described, and she would help out. She would like go over and do things for this neighbor to help him out Which is nice. Not every neighbor. It's not a family member No, you know she was described by a former boss as a good employee when her husband allowed her to work Which is an odd way to put it Yeah, it's no and also it doesn't strike me as Brenda is the She's the stronger personality in the marriage. Yeah, she's the one that was assertive enough to go get him Yeah

So she to me like just from everything I've heard from what everybody's described if Brenda wants to work Brenda's gonna work Period or if Brenda doesn't want to work She's not gonna work But she's gonna do what she wants to do and the only way Brenda's not gonna work is if we have enough money for me to be the yeah Fashion stay-at-home mother that yeah wants to be yeah, and she wants to do all the volunteering stuff And she likes that I mean it keeps her she likes to do things and stay busy Which is totally understandable, and I think she found ways to fill that with the other stuff here Brenda's cousin said that she was the glue that held her family together after their father died.

So, I mean, it's, you know, she's she's done it here. Brenda helped raise and care for her brother till she till she moved for school that she would help raise her mentally disabled brother as well. So, I mean, everybody says she's just, you know, a super sweet person and very helpful and you know type of person you can depend on Now the pro after she has the second kid though She starts to be a little bit wilder starting to come into her own a little bit And she's she's like 30 32 here, so I mean fun Yeah, and it takes a while to figure out who you are some people figure it out earlier than others Yeah, but nobody figures it out when they're 23.

No, and being a responsible person doesn't really start until your 30s. And your 30s are your 20s with money. So you're responsible enough to understand that you don't, yeah, fingers crossed, yeah. Not for me it wasn't. Your 20s are usually just pissing away all your money because you don't have any.

You don't have it. No. And that's what it takes to survive. It's got to be weird like when people get famous when they're like 23 because they kind of have to stay that forever now. Because that's what everybody expects of you when as you are not a fully developed person yet really. You don't know who you are.

That's why that's what's the weird part. You know the best comedians are usually in their 40s and 50s Yeah, because I've I have never seen outside of like Eddie Murphy You know what I mean? I've never and that's a once-in-a-fucking lifetime talent outside of that I've never seen someone who's 22 be funny They can be funny for a joke, but for an hour they have nothing to say because nothing's happened to them yet And it's not an insult it's Yeah, yeah, and he said that Chappelle by the way was

Early Chappelle was terrific. He was great when he was 16 too, but Eddie Murphy said all I would talk about was taking a shit when I was young because that's all I had done. That was in his act Why does that what does that chunk want? And he did it as somebody else as Richard Pryor, which is hilarious. So Brenda gets wild here a little bit. They start to, Rob and Brenda start to grow apart a little bit here. The guy who is the president of a head hunting

and consulting firm who worked with Rob on hiring for the ad agency said that he met Brenda for the first time and he and his wife had arrived at the restaurant, they're all going out to dinner together, they arrived first and were waiting in the bar area when Rob and Brenda showed up. The comment that was made, this is a quote from this guy, quote, the comment that was made was, who's the hoochie? Oh boy. The hoochie.

Her dress was very tight, very short, with a lot of cleavage exposed. I'm just going out to an adult dinner, who cares? She's not going to a Girl Scout meeting like that. Who gives a shit what she does? So I would like to know who said who's the hoochie? The comment that was made. Did you make it or your wife? I would like to know who said who's the hoochie, the comment that was made. Did you make it or your wife?

I would like to know that too. So he said that he pictured Rob, who was openly religious at work, being with someone who was way more you know, buttoned up than this. Brenda's got her buttons open now. So. A little titty.

Yeah, she's already had a baby, Tupac wrote a song about it. Yeah, we's already had a baby Tupac wrote a song about it. We're Yeah, we're doing that so 1997 comes along here and number Rick Nunley Yeah, we said yeah His wife works with Brenda or worked with Brenda at the bank. Well, Rick Nunley is an Oklahoma City reservoir engineer. Oh I guess you have to. You have to.

You'd have to engineer a reservoir. You can't just say fill it with water. That looks like a good enough hole. You got to do some math. Job. There's not a lot of those being made today, right? No, pretty much all made. Yeah, I think the engineer probably works on the maintenance of it, too, and make sure like, you know, does the math of make sure it doesn't overflow.

And yeah, I don't know what the fuck. Run dry. Something. sure like you know that does the math of yeah something so yeah he met Brenda when she worked with his wife or at the time his wife at the time later to be ex-wife at the bank the two couples Rob and Brenda and Rick Nunley and his wife were friends for about ten years at this point. They met in like 87. So at this point they've known each other for 10 years. By 1997 here, Brenda starts having an affair with Rick Nunley. Brenda.

Yeah, this is family friends. Rick isn't divorced from his wife yet. This is two intact couples and the two partners here are gonna go after each other. So. Ruining Pictionary Knight. Oh, destroying Trivial Pursuit Knight, destroying it. Destroying Trivial Pursuit Psalm Edition. Is there one of those?

Probably. It should be if there isn't, because I bet it would sell. So, this continued and goes on and on and on through a while. And other people started to notice it too. This goes on for over a year, this affair. This isn't one and done.

Well, I mean. I mean, it's being hidden, but people are like, ah, they're pretty fucking friendly with each other. A little bit. Jennifer Jones, who was a college student at the time and a nanny back then, she babysat for Brenda and recalled two occasions when she sensed something odd was going on. She testified that once Brenda told her that, I'm going to go get groceries.

And she left wearing a tight leather skirt and top to go to the grocery store. Didn't come back with groceries. Well, when she returned, she had no groceries and wasn't wearing her wedding ring. And her hair's a mess. Well, that's actually the next line, as she said, and her hair was a miss. Incredibly disheveled.

She came back with disheveled hair, no groceries, and minus a wedding ring. I mean, she might as well have a hand mark on her ass, you know what I mean? Why don't you just carry your panties inside, lady? Yeah. Oh, she might as well have walked in and said, do you have an extra morning after pill?

No? Okay. Spinning your undies on your finger. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. Like a six shooter. They were all out of groceries. Spinning them like a six shooter, but they had plenty of men were all out of groceries. Spinnin' them like a six shooter.

But they had plenty of men. All out of groceries. Man witch and man ace. And Rick Nunley over here knows Rob really well. They're buddies. They go fishing and shit together. And he's screwing his wife.

Like this is pretty bad shit for everybody involved here. It's pretty fucked up. Another time, Brenda left wearing a quote, provocative dress and Jennifer Jones said, I felt like something was going on and I did not want to be a part of it. I don't want to be here just to help this lady cover up her affairs. That's fine. That's the least Jenny Jones you've done.

You've done Jenny Jones. She's always involved. She wants to know everything. I want the least Jenny Jones you've done. The thing you've done, Jenny Jones, she's always involved. She wants to know everything. I want to know it all, tell me. And then, so I held, I staged a fucking, a surprise ambush of Rob to tell him that his friend and his wife are fucking each other. Another guy named Rod Lott, who used to work for Rob

at Jordan and Associates, he said that he often accompanied Rob on business trips to Tulsa. And he said that he and Rob once, he asked Rob once why he never told Brenda he loved her when they ended phone calls. He goes, you don't tell your wife I love you at the end of your call. Yeah, what's up with that?

Yeah, Lot said, quote, he said he tried to do that when they first got married But she said it made her feel uncomfortable and told him not to do it. I Don't want to tell you I love you Don't tell me that it makes me feel guilty about this cock in my ass. You feel real weird. Oh Man, so he also said this this friend said quote they hadn't had sex in years said this friend said quote they hadn't had sex in years he would come home and see lingerie that would that was bought and he'd get his hopes up and he'd get his feelings hurt in the end where's the lingerie going if you come home you see

there's all this sexy underwear and it never it's never honor you'd be like what the fuck is happening here I saw it it. Why didn't it materialize? Hey, why don't you put that one thing on? Oh, I left it at, I mean. God damn it. Good God. So that affair ends in about 1997 or 98. I'm sorry. Started 97 ends about mid 98.

Then in 2000, she has an affair with the dude who works at the grocery store. James Higgins is his name and he I guess he has like about a 16 month affair with Brenda as well. Wow. He said that Brenda used to come into the store flirting with him and wearing quote low cut tops and short skirts. Then one day, this is incredible by the way, if you work at a grocery store and you're like a young guy and you see like these housewives coming in and some of them are like sexy and you're like, man one of them's gonna ask to hook up with me

one of these days. It's some weird teenage fantasy, strange. Ridiculous idea, yeah. Well quote, one day she brought him a motel key and handed it to him and winked and that was that it was on Nobody has ever ever That's some shit that happened to like Frank Sinatra in 1958 like some women after a Vegas show throw him a hotel see this is While you're stocking the Froot Lo this lady's like, here you go.

Wow. Oh, fuck. Yeah. She gave him a key to a motel room. They met that afternoon at the motel room. And then these type of meetings occurred several times a week during those two years. This wasn't like once in a while.

This was like every day. They also had sex at her at her home, you know the family home And in the car as well, you know, sometimes Sometimes you just can't get a location. You just got to throw down the no vacancy Well, what do you want is open? Yeah, it's front seat wide open goes all the way back. Yeah So all during this time Brenda kept telling James Higgins how much she hated her husband. She also told him that she wished Rob was dead. Now if you're this Higgins guy, you're going, anyway, you're not in this for all this seriousness.

So you're going to swallow that? Wow. So that's amazing. So the affair continues. She ends up breaking things off with him in about May of 2001. But the problem is she broke up with him because there's somebody else and it's not her husband. God, we'll talk about that. But there's other Brenda things that people say about Brenda in the neighborhood. And I'm going to say, first off, this is a very like conservative religious area.

And people expect a different. I don't know. I don't know. They're a little judgier in terms of sexuality, in terms of just having any sexuality at all here at the time. But it's still like the year 2000 in the United States of America. So it's really weird to be like, ah, look at her with her skirt on, who cares?

In Tucson, Tucson what? In 2000, it's not out of bounds for a woman to be free with her sexuality. I mean married and free with her sexuality is a bit much, but. Married and fucking people from the grocery store is one thing, but going out in a skirt is a completely different, who cares? That's not an issue. That's very normal.

Non-issue. But here's some stuff that happened here. There were neighborhood boys that were doing some work on the Andrew family deck. I guess they were painting it or doing something. They came home and told their mother that Brenda had come on to them. These were like 15 year olds.

Yeah. Like she came out being all fucking, you know, whatever. I don't know who wants some lemonade type of shit here. It's like, whoa, that's what I mean. This is a, this is a, who usually stars Lisa Ann and a bunch of pool boys. Usually movers. Yeah, the movers are a bit or pizza or pizza delivery,

which is the most unrealistic one, because he's got other orders he needs to go deliver. So why are there three guys delivering one pizza? Seems inefficient. Someone's getting cold wings, is what I'm saying in the end. A lot of evil. She's been here for an hour.

Although when I was a teenager, I delivered pizza, and one time I delivered to this motel in Fishkill, and this lady opened the door. She was like probably 45 or whatever. I was like 17. She opened the door, she was like probably 45 or whatever, I was like 17. She opened the door just nude. And I just, I wasn't into it because she was like older than my mom.

So I was just like, oh, that'll be $14. And like I was pretended like she wasn't naked. It was the weirdest thing ever. You had to jam it through the pizza box, James. Hey, I brought you pizza for you, what do you say? Extra sausage. It's extra so yo would you want Italian sausage on that? I got you covered honey. So she also told a friend of hers that she liked having workmen at her house and use them to babysit. What? Watch my kids for a minute I'm gonna go hook up with the guy from the grocery store.

The least roo- oh my god. Yeah like roofers and shit yeah that's what you want with your Kids for a minute. I'm gonna go hook up with the guy for the grocery store the least My god, yeah, like roofers and shit. Yeah, that's what you want Because he's getting paid under the table because he's a felon lady. Yeah Apparently at one point she heard that a guy she knew liked redheads So she dyed her hair red and told her friend about it And then at another time this is non-sexual completely, during an argument with a plumber, she threatened to kill him. Okay. Which I don't think a lot of plumbers get death threats from housewives, so she's like,

this is wild. So anyway, she breaks up with the grocery store guy, James Higgins, to find another James, a guy named James Pavitt. P-A-V-A-T-T or Pavott, however you want to fucking say it, James. He's born in 1952, so he's about 11 years older than her. He's an insurance broker. Prudential he works for. He's described in a newspaper as, quote, an Pavat had the aw shucks grin of a schoolboy and a face that would look at home in a bluegrass festival

He seems as harmless as dry wheat toast and about as memorable. This is hilarious It is and boring the preacher that at the church he attended every week Said that he remembered Pavit existing, but couldn't really recall anything he ever said. That's how nondescript you are. It feels like he probably breathed in my church. Like I know he's been around, but like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know anything he's ever said at any point in time.

So that's interesting. Now he was in the Air Force for a while, and he was, I guess, a police officer in the Air Force, like an MP there. And he was at Tinker Air Force Base for a while in the 80s. He tells everybody he was in the special forces and killed a bunch of people, but his military records don't mention any of that.

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can't remember you. Anything you ever said. I think I kept him from Hellfire. I don't know. Actually I remember something he talked about. Something to do with Jesus. I'm not sure exactly. But I'm pretty sure that was the thrust of the conversation over again that there.

So other people have said that James told them he had a second or a secret job in which he killed people as well. Who tells people that, first of all? So before he worked for Prudential Life Company, he attended the University of Oklahoma, then enlisted in the Air Force. He's a military police officer.

From 74 to 95, we're talking career Air Force guy. He served in Korea, Guam, Alaska, Mississippi. He picked up a wife in Korea too, that we'll talk about. He does, he has a Korean wife. He also did a multi-year stint at the Tinker Air Force base Records do not indicate that Pavit saw combat or received any specialized commando training as he claims In fact aside from basic training He attended only three other courses including two academies for non-commissioned officers and a supervisory development course.

So like. Fucking Jesus. Yeah, like administrative shit, not like. Boring. This is how you break a neck like Steven Seagal in a movie. Like one hand next snap. That's how you do it. Breaking next, he's not even breaking down the M16 James.

Nothing. Nope, there's no record that he ever killed anyone either in his military shit here. Now Brenda and James, they meet while attending the same church. Okay. Now how do they meet? Well, Rob and James.

She noticed him. Rob and James are both church deacons. Oh, geez. Isn't that nice? And they know each other real well. And then she's, oh, here's my lovely wife. Oh, that's great. And then he's like, I'd like to also my sex with her yeah

so The Pavit and Andrews family socialized together Yeah, they ate dinner at each other's houses and all that shit Rob Andrews brother who rode in a truck with James Pave it for hours on a hunting trip didn't think he'd ever met this guy He this is crazy. He never thought he met the guy until later on When he saw them on videotape together Even though he had spent hours in a truck with him on a hunting trip. That's how

in a truck with him on a hunting trip. That's how nondescript he is. You're in a three by three enclosed space with someone for hours and you don't remember them. Forgettable. Wow, this guy is just forgettable. That is crazy. Even, this is wild, even James Pavitt's attorney called him a quote, little poindexter guy.

So he doesn't seem like the type of guy where you'd be like, marriage be damned, I need that cock. It just doesn't seem like that kind of guy. But from his point, I can blend into everything. I'll go down on her and she'll forget me in 10 minutes. She won't even know I'm down there for Christ's sake. She'll forget that I went down there.

He has like 45 kids but he doesn't pay any child support because none of the women can remember ever having sex with him. It's incredible. It's wild. So Brenda and James started teaching Sunday school classes together and obviously the mix of the

children and the Jesus got them all horned up for each other. If you can't get all sexified when you're teaching Jesus to children, I don't know when you can really, on a Sunday morning also like none of these things lend to any sexuality. So they do, they began having a sexual affair at this point Around this same time conveniently. Yeah The Brenda tells Rob he really should get some life insurance I think and you should get it through with prudential through James, you know, he can hook you up So Rob ends up with a life insurance policy worth about $800,000.

Which is. That's a big one. That's a pretty decent one, but he makes good money. So I mean it makes sense. He's making 150 grand a year or something. So it's fucking wild. So anyway, he's got his, James sells him this policy and Brenda is the beneficiary obviously. Now over the

summer, this summer of 2001 after they start hooking up, James divorces his wife. Oh really? Oh yeah he sears her with divorce papers. Prudential dork is done. He's done. Suck Hugh Pavett is his wife's name. S-U-K. I'd marry her too. You know? Separate name, H-U-I. Yeah. Yeah. Suck Hugh, I mean.

Get the fuck out. Yeah. He met her and he was like, no, no, no, no, I don't want that. She was like, no, that's my name. And he's like, I don't have any money. And she's like, no, you don't get it. Yes ma'am.

Yes ma'am. So yeah, she was shocked when her husband brought up a divorce, she said. Shocked. Sure. I bet, she's like, I haven't been doing it all. She said that at first, James told her that he wanted a divorce because she didn't get along with his family. Yeah, because all of his brothers, that's all that matters.

Every time they see her, they just pull their dick out. Yeah. Like that's not getting along. So James then said the divorce was for her protection at that point. Listen, I didn't want to tell you this. It's not about my family. It's actually for your own protection because of problems with his previous duty in the special forces. You know, like the Musaad's after him or something. Like he's got some, yeah, I don't know what's going on, but he's got, I'm the dark angel of South Korea and they know that's crazy. Suck you said he said, I know sook. I'm sure it is but still Sook you sounds like you're just sounds like a Korean version of suck you So she said quote he said Korea was the only place that was safe in the whole world and sent her to Korea

Go back to Korea. She said she stayed a short time in Korea before returning to Oklahoma City because he told her that he had made the biggest mistake of his life later on. Then she said when I got back there, she said I found a different man than I knew before. She said quote, he wasn't the same Jim I knew for nine years, he was the most kind person

while we were married, something was not right with him. So he switched it up a little bit here. Now through all of this, Rob is not an idiot. That's the other thing. Rob suspects that his wife and James are having an affair. He just does. I mean, it's gotta be kinda obvious, you know what I mean? Everybody else knows.

Now, Sue Q said, he'll say it like that, she said that James denied having an affair with Brenda because she confronted him too. Were you having an affair with the church lady? No, I'm not, okay. While in South Korea, she said she received divorce papers from James to sign and return and they were divorced September 6th and she was sent her

there telling her to be safe there yeah and then she came back and then went back to Korea and then he just mailed her divorce papers take these she said that yeah he he was just a different guy when she had come back to Oklahoma. She said he was nervous, he wasn't the same person. Yeah, nervous you're gonna catch me plowing Brenda here. She said that, he said that, the other thing is he said, you have to go back to Korea because I need to protect myself and protect you and suck you said, he said Rob was accusing him of something

So now she also his wife also said that they had money problems about thirty thousand dollars in credit card debt That's rough and in 2001. That's even more money so she Yeah, she said when she learned about the debt in January 2001, she made arrangements with the credit card companies to make specific monthly payments in an effort to pay off the bills, do a structured, yeah. They were, I guess, paying $1,500 a month on credit cards,

trying to pay it back. Damn. Man, that is rough. She said, I had to drop out of school to pay off the credit cards. I asked him if he paid my school off He said he did but he didn't For the divorce and sent yeah sending her back all her own fucking student debt enjoy

She said I believed him 100% he was the most lovable man in the whole world. I still care for him Well, it's gonna be crazy Then also she said that James, to get her back to Korea, to get her an airline ticket to Korea, since they don't have any money, James quote, borrowed a credit card from Brenda and Rob. So he said, I need money to send my wife back to Korea so we can fuck at my house.

And she was like, well, use my Amex. And that was that. So September 19th, 2001, Brenda and James are brought into the, the principal's office there at the North Point Baptist Church because of concerns about their actions and they are told they are not allowed to teach Sunday school anymore. Yeah, because you're because you're a problem. You're two married people fucking each other in the well I guess one married person now but yeah for all

intents and purposes. One got rid of their spouse to continue this fucking. It's not good. We know what you're doing. Then that's in September 19th in the next ten days or so before the beginning of October, Brenda asks Rob to move out of the house as well. They have a nice house too. It's like a 6,000 square foot fucking house. It's a nice, it's a big old house, man. It's nice.

If you could get out, that'd be wonderful. You could just ignore the person if you don't like them. Just stay on the other side of the house. There's three houses in there. It's like 6,400 square feet. That's three decent sized houses. Two big houses, three the house. There's three houses in there. It's like 6,400 square feet. That's three decent size houses. Two big houses, three nice houses. It's big.

And he does, he moves out. A next door neighbor recalled seeing James's truck at the residence with increased frequency after that. Then he was stopping by. They said it was very common to see James's truck in the Andrews driveway shortly after Brenda had put the kids on the school bus He pulls right in Man, that is crazy. He James also told for some reason told his adult daughter

Janna or Yana J a and ma is that Yana? That's Jana, right? Jana Jana. Yeah, I guess Oklahoma. That's Jana It's Jana, right? Jana, Jana, yeah, it's Oklahoma, it's Jana. Told his adult daughter Jana that he was having a sexual relationship with Brenda. I bet you can't wait to tell your daughter about your sexual relationships. I have an adult daughter, I would never tell her anything about sex, about me.

I don't, it's not, it's crazy. I'm not telling her sexual relationships. She doesn't wanna know. Yeah. I don't wanna tell her. Give me. She doesn't want to know. I don't want to tell her. Maybe I'll brace her if she gets to meet anybody, but I'm not telling her about conquests. But even if you were with somebody and you wanted her to meet them, you wouldn't be like, I'm having a sexual relationship with her. She just probably assumed that, I would assume.

Hey, press. This is Tabitha. I go down on her a lot. I go down on her and no she's reciprocal She returns the favor. We have a really good time. Keep that in mind when I kiss you on the cheek So he also told Jenna that His plan was to marry Brenda and have a child with her. I'm gonna Fucking put one. What the fuck? I'm gonna put one in the oven there. Hello adult child, I'm starting all over again. Starting all over, even though I've already started all over. Yeah.

From your mom, this is the third time. So Brenda continued to talk about, to anybody that she could, especially even the grocery store guy, who she's not even having an affair with anymore, about that she hates Rob, hates her husband. At one point she told him, I don't know if this is right outside the fucking Red Baron frozen pizzas or what, but she told him that she wished Rob would just die

so she could get the money and go on with her life. Anyway, lemons two for one. Yeah. So October 1st, 2001, remember Rick Nunley, the first affair she had there? Right. Yeah, okay. Well Brenda and Nunley, for some reason,

she keeps in contact with him on the phone all the time. She's always talking on the phone with this guy. It's like a dick in a glass case. It was a case of emergency break glass and you got this. So they did that. Nunley met Brenda in downtown Oklahoma City about the first of October of October and Brenda told him that she's going to get a divorce. That's what she said. She's going to get a divorce. Rob moved out of the house. At some point during the month of October here, Brenda told Nunley that she was upset about Rob trying to change the beneficiary

on the life insurance policy. We'll find out why. Cell phone records indicate that 87 phone calls between Brenda and Nunley were completed during the months of September, October, and November 2001. It's about 30, about one a day, that averages. You talk to this motherfucker every day. Every day.

Every goddamn day. Outside of my wife and probably you, there's not a lot of people I talk to every day. There's, yeah, there's not a lot. You know, like, that's every day is a lot. I don't have to talk to my mom every day. No, no. She's sick.

I haven't talked to my dad in three weeks. He's got stage 4 cancer. Yeah, that's what I'm saying It's a lot. It's every day is a lot. It's just you really got to want that now October 3rd 2001 Brenda files for divorce Officially Rob doesn't want a divorce. He wants to get back together That's what he wants. He told his friends Brenda could have the house, the money, whatever. But he just wants to be able to share custody of the kids.

That's it. He just loves the kids and he doesn't want to lose the kids. So October 26th, 2001. Our first police involvement happens here. Really? OK. Buildings are smoldering on the other side of the country, and we got police. Smoldered, absolutely. We got worse shit happening here.

Yeah. So on this day, he spotted some fluid under his car when he went to get in his car. And he's getting in his car for a very specific reason, because he's been called and told to go somewhere, because Brenda's been hurt in a car accident. Oh my. OK? Been told to go somewhere because Brenda's been hurt in a car accident. Oh my.

Okay. He's been told to go to the hospital, but he spotted fluid under his car. So he drove to a repair shop that was very close by and they told him, your brake lines have been cut. Yeah. How'd you make it here? Yeah. They were like, I guess it was still in the lines, whatever was in the lines.

So they said your brake lines not ripped, cut clearly intentionally, I guess it was still in the lines. Whatever was in the lines. So they said, your brake line's not ripped, cut clearly intentionally, obviously. Someone cut them. They don't just explode in a perfect cut. Right. In the most available spot for wire cutters to get to. Yeah, so Rob calls 911, because he's like-

That's attempted murder, yeah. He says to the 911 operator, tells her what happened, then says, that sounds like attempted murder. Don't you think? Yeah, right. Yeah, someone tried to kill me, right? Yeah, so yeah He started I guess him and Brenda have been fighting as well. She's been flooding him with accusatory calls and leaving messages on his answering machine that are really nasty and yelling at him and Openly telling everyone she knows that she hates him. Openly. So he tells police that he thought that Brenda and James were

plotting to kill him. They said that's who cut my brake lines. This is fucking nuts. He goes I got phone calls. The reason I was even going anywhere to find out my brake lines were cut is I got mysterious phone calls telling me that That there's Brenda was in the hospital was in a car accident So I was that's what this was and we'll find out where those phone calls came from He got phone calls from a man and a woman telling him this you need to go to the hospital and get Brenda or go see Brenda So yeah, he tells police that he suspects

his wife and James are having an affair. He says that James is very angry with him, and quote, has talked about being a special force's commando and that he's killed numerous people while in the military. Yeah, they teach you how to cut brake lines. Yeah, that's the go-to there. Yeah.

That's how he took down Hitler. That's what it was. It wasn't just the Russians and us invading and it wasn't a D-Day or any of that stuff. Break lines. He went right off a cliff. Right off a cliff like a soap opera. Wee poof. So yeah, this is good that he'd notified the police anyway He told his friend though. It feels like he has a target on his back now He has to is to check his car before he gets in it like a gangster Yeah, you know like you want to start my car for me So the next day Brenda called Rob after the brake cutting incident and said that she read in the newspaper that someone cut his brakes

Are you okay in the newspaper? It was not in the newspaper. No media covered it. Why would she say that? She figured it would be a story. But it wasn't and the only people who knew that the brake lines were cut were Rob, the mechanic, the police and fucking Brenda obviously. So I read a news story of you careening off a cliff. Are you okay? You good? Is that okay?

I made it to a garage where they fixed my brake lines. You cut, you psychotic bitch. You fucking asshole. So that's interesting. Now another thing is the insurance here. After his brakes were cut, he inquired about removing Brenda completely as a beneficiary. Yeah.

So the problem, this is fucking wild here. He asked James that because James is his insurance guy. So he thinks James just tried to kill him. But yet he goes to James because that's his insurance guy. Yeah. So this is fucked up. At one point point by the way There is a change of ownership form that's backdated to 2001. That's gonna be suspicious

But anyway, Rob goes and tells and says Jamie James He wants to change it now James tells him you can't change it because you're not the owner of the policy. She is That's not true though. That's not true at all. No. So Rob then went to James' boss and said, can I change this beneficiary? You know, what the fuck here? And the guy said, of course you can. It's your policy.

You're the, you're the owner of it. You pay for it. You can change it to anybody you want. You can have Michael Jackson get it if you want. He wasn't dead yet. I don't give a shit who it is. It doesn't matter. So they said that when James found out

that Rob had went over his head at work, he was furious and called Rob up and said, quote, "'If you think you have problems with Brenda, "'you haven't seen anything till you've messed with me.'" Oh. Okay. Now while all this is going on, Rob is keeping a journal. This is his prayer journal, apparently.

We should have all changed our life insurance policy people to Ed McMahon and surprised the shit out of him every single day. That would have been amazing. Why do people keep giving me money? I'm making a ton every day. Every day, Prudential and State Farm, they're all ringing my doorbell. Who did Ed McMahon work for? Besides Johnny Carson.

Oh, I don't know. What's the name of the people who come to the door? Publishers Clearinghouse. Nope. What was it? Isn't that amazing? Is it not Publishers Clearinghouse? No, he worked for another one that popped up to compete with Publishers Clearinghouse and everyone thinks that Ed McMahon worked for Publishers Clearing House? No, he worked for another one that popped up to compete with Publishers Clearing House, and everyone thinks

that Ed McMahon worked for Publishers Clearing House. He has never worked for Publishers Clearing House for a day. It was a different one. Isn't that amazing? That's what blew my mind. I just heard that the other day. Just heard it.

It wasn't even Publishers Clearing House. No, no. The publishers. Every reference ever was, this better be Publishers Clearing House and Ed McMahon with a big old fucking check for me There's a guy who one of the guys who was running publishers clearing house wrote a book and was like everyone thinks it said McMahon Never had a man. He goes, but we got the most free advertising out of that cuz you just put him with that with that

Yeah, yeah, what was the clearing house? I don't know what American whatever the fuck publishing who the hell knows doesn't matter It was American Family Publishers There you go That crazy nobody's ever heard of American whatever the fucking you gave away a bunch of money advertising it you dumb fucks That's right. They still they made a fortune So in Rob's prayer journal, yeah He wrote that God would intervene and allow him to reunite with Brenda and the children Okay, God's gonna come fix this all he wanted a change of heart a recommitment to marriage and faith and we wanted his life back

He said one of his entries. He said I am in great pain. This is on November 12th He said I know that if I face these problems and allow God to work. He will show me a way of escape Later on that month. He wrote this is November 19th. He wrote I have faith in God these problems and allow God to work, he will show me a way of escape. Later on that month, he wrote, this is November 19th, he wrote, I have faith in God. I should walk with assurance of the things I hope for a relationship with my kids, a loving wife, a home that worships, laughs, plays and loves. So November 18th, 2001, Brenda buys the kids a new puppy. Oh, that was nice. 2001 Brenda buys the kids a new puppy

Yorkie I Guess they have it the the son has a chihuahua But the daughter doesn't really like the chihuahua and it's the daughter's dog had done chihuahua It's a New York accent It's nothing Chihuahua I don't know for me say I like the fucking like the like the store in Philly So they got that and then they also have The daughter's dog had died a few months ago, so they had to put it down.

So they get the daughter a Yorkie. They get Tri-City a Yorkie. They get 11 pounds of dogs in this house. I didn't even mean to call her Tri-City. I meant to call her Tricity and I called her Tri-City. Tri-City gets a Yorkie. They said the girl's grandmother, this is Rob's mother, said she got that dog on Monday, and all day Monday

they tried to get Rob to come over and see it, the kids were. They said he went over there with a friend, but something happened, and I go, don't think he got a chance to see the dog then. What happened was he went over with a guy named Ronnie Stump, a friend of his, it's his best friend. And they went over to the house to see the dog. Brenda got livid

that he brought someone over, even though it's his best friend. She's known him for 10 years or whatever, 15 years. Livid and said that no way you're not, wouldn't let him in the house because he brought a friend over to he even said ronald wait in the car He was she was like no you brought someone here. You can go now get out So rob was really discouraged obviously here and He was talking to stump here about all this and you know later on that night

He ended up going back to the house without stump to see the dog The this is his mother said this quote Rob's mother up going back to the house without stop to see the dog. This is his mother said this quote Rob's mother. He did say that he went back over there later that night to see the dog. Tricity was just insistent on it. She kept calling late at night. It was like 10 o'clock. He went back over and Brenda brought the dog out to the car but he never did get to see

Tricity. It didn't make sense to him. Imagine her just like holding the look here it is see it all right holding it up to the window i Guess pet it once or twice see what you think pounds of adorable look at it look at it now that same day the puppy Thing and all of this on this same day james Buys a 22 caliber revolver from an Oklahoma City gun dealer on that same day. Yeah, the Prudential guy. November 19th, the next day, 2001, there's a phone call here.

I guess this is to a friend of hers who is the mother of one of Tricity's friends. Okay, she called this lady up, Brenda does, Cynthia is her name, and repeatedly declared how much she hated Rob. Here's a quote from Cynthia, quote, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him. I was shocked the way she said she hated him. Yeah, that's a lot of hate. I hate him, I hate him, I hate him.

Three hates. November 20th hate him, I hate him, I hate him. Three hates. November 20th, 2001. Here we go, now it's all coming closer together. Rob is supposed to pick the children up for the long Thanksgiving weekend. He pulls up. While he pulls up, he's on the phone, on a cell phone call with his friend Ronnie Stump.

And as he's speaking to stump he says abruptly. I've got to go. They're coming out and he hangs up Yeah, he was in the driveway finishing up the conversation The next thing you know about 10 minutes later 15 minutes later. There's a 911 call and it's Brenda calling 911 and She says quote. I've been shot. Oh My husband and I we've been shot. Oh Yeah, she said we were in the garage and my husband me and my husband and he's got blood all over him That's at 620 that call is made PM

She said they'd been shot in the garage by assailants wearing black masks. That's what she said. Now, by the way, our Patreon could not be more apt for this because that sounds crazy. It's squad shit, yeah. Wait till you hear our Patreon this way, it's insane. So anyway, this is what's going on and in a second call, which ended at 626 PM,

she said that Rob was bleeding a lot but he was conscious breathing and trying to talk terrific okay when the police arrived Rob's cars in the driveway garage door it was up Brenda's van is in the garage there's got a minivan a maroon minivan Rob is lying flat on his back on the garage floor in a pool of blood Brenda is sitting about three feet away in the doorway between the garage and the house Just staring staring down now There right away. They said are there children in this house right and where yes there are oh

Shit, where the fuck are they? Yeah, cops go in they look for the kids the kids are perfectly safe and sound in the back bedroom Room furthest from the garage the door was shut and the TV was on To what the just the officer described the volume raised to a very uncomfortable level Like out for no reason loud Loud as fuck. Yeah. Kids like loud, but this is like, whoa! Like you walk in and holy shit, it's on like 97. You're like, no, no, no.

Turn that down. So that's a lot here. He had come to pick the kids up and now he's on the floor. So this isn't good. She said that, they said, well, what the fuck happened? She said, well, I asked him if he could come and help me the pilot light in the garage was getting was acting weird So I asked if he could relight it for me and he said yeah sure Yeah, I get the furnace is out there and he followed her and he squatted beside the furnace and

That's when this all happened now He is also clutching a trash bag filled with empty soda cans as well, they found him, because he recycles and he was trying to spread the word of recycling, not only does he spread the word about Jesus, he spreads the word about recycling. So he said, oh, strangers are here, let me tell you about the virtues of this.

Johnny Recycle Se seat. That's it That's me, baby They think he grabbed it and tried to protect him like just grabbed whatever and what has holding it up I mean people hold their hands up He was holding up a bag of empty cans which didn't wow with gunshots Yeah, that riddled his body as we'll talk about here Wow, so they so emergency personnel arrive, he's on the floor of the garage,

he's got extensive blood loss, and they're unable to revive him. Rob is dead, he's declared dead on the floor of the garage. Now Brenda also has a gunshot wound to her arm, but it's a very superficial wound. Oh, a graze. Kind of a graze, just a flesh wound basically. So she is taken out of the garage to the curb to be treated

and asked what the fuck happened basically. She told police at the scene that there were two armed assailants wearing black masks and black clothes that came in. She said they only said, these assailants only said six or seven words to her, but she couldn't remember any of them, what they were. There's so few, I don't remember a single one.

And I remember none of them. Must've been James, he's so forgetful. He's very forgetful, wow, yeah. So also, she said the assailants fled the scene on foot, is what she said, they took off. There was no car parked outside or anything like that, they took off. Several guys. So a patrolman who had responded to this place here, What she said they took off there was no car parked outside or anything like that. They took off several guys

So a patrolman who had responded to here to this place here. His name is Roger Frost He said he's been to several hundred crime scenes 20 or 30 homicides. He's one of the first officers to arrive He described Brenda's behavior as strange that evening She said he said she wasn't hysterical, as is usually the case. Instead, he said that she was very calm and able to answer questions straight on, and that every once in a while she would sort of cry, but it seemed fake to him. Now, this is not a good gauge of someone's truthfulness,

though, because everybody, they've done countless studies, everybody reacts different to this type of shit everybody some people get super calm because there's stuff to be done and they get in that mode some people are hysterical you know some people are you've experienced in life everybody yeah handles shit different if it's your first time with grief and murder and yeah you're gonna have a problem. It's what like, as crazy as I am, I'm great in a crisis. If something's going on, like I am, let's focus, I'm like a fucking military precision.

I freak out afterwards and I'm like, now that that's over, but while it's going on, no need to get crazy, let's fucking focus on what's happening. So maybe she's just doing that, who knows, we don't know. So when asked what she did after the shots were fired, Let's fucking focus on what's happening. So maybe she's just doing that who knows we don't know so When asked what she did after the shots were fired She said she went into the kitchen to get the phone to call 9-1-1 and then checked on the kids in the bedroom

And then came back to the garage from there The problem is there there's no blood trail Leaving she's bleeding from the arm. There's no from the arm. There's no. Yeah, she's bleeding from the arm. Didn't go in. No blood trail or any blood in the house at all. There's no blood inside the house. And she said she went in, walked all the way to the other side of the house and back,

but never dripped a drop of blood. And that is strange. They didn't even find blood on the receiver of the phone. Which is, again, odd. So yeah, she said that, that this is they said start from the beginning she said I stepped outside the house and opened the garage door. The children remained in the house. She said I brought a pet carrier to Rob's car and asked him to help turn the furnace back on help light the pilot. Rob was dressed

in long-sleeve blue shirt plaid socks burgundy dress shoes followed her inside knelt down behind the heat beside the heating unit and went to work on lighting it. They found the police found burnt matches on the floor nearby but the pilot light still unlit. Okay. So he was trying to do it. So she said he was squatting with his back to the garage entrance at the nose of the Maroon minivan, which was off to his right, leaving a narrow alley between the passenger side of the vehicle and the east wall of the garage. As you know, if it's a one car garage, there's not a lot of room there. point there she says that she told police that she and her husband were disturbed by voices outside the garage they heard something and they were like what's going on two men rushed in faces concealed by the dark masks they were

outside she said Rob turned around and a shot rang out and it hit him she said he picked up a trash bag filled with cans and held it in front of him, like a shield, which is just sad, you know, that sucks, man. A second shot was fired, she says, that hit her in the arm, and then a third shot was fired after that. That hit him again. So they went, and then they just took off on foot.

Didn't want anything, just wanted to murder them in the garage apparently. Good time to shoot at people. That's it, not even the minivan they didn't want. So acting on their information, police began searching for these people that struck without motive or anything else all over the place, and they were like,

I don't understand it, there's only one escape route on this street street and it's at a time of day when there's a lot of activity it's six o'clock at night people are coming home from work they're going out the grocery store they're doing things the men are never found in the neighborhood oh no one else on the street saw anybody wearing all black in masks carrying guns nothing of them even just two guys they didn't see any of that nobody saw anything. No one in the neighboring areas saw them either running away.

So they didn't know, you know, there's none of that. Yeah. Yeah. That Frost officer said about Brenda, she was crying like fake crying. She wasn't hysterical like most people involved in this kind of crime. So he said, you know, he's,

he had this frost guy said he's familiar with the neighborhood because he's worked, he works as an extra job as security in this neighborhood for the last 13 years. And he had written a drive or a traffic ticket in front of their house less than an hour before the shootings. Just a minute ago, I was just in front of this fucking house he said. So he was doing these extra patrols because Brenda had asked the security company for extra patrol around her home after they separated. She was saying she was scared of Rob. Really? Yeah, which there doesn't seem to be much reason to be scared of Rob. He doesn't, he does not like that. So the wounds here, Rob was shot twice with a 16 gauge shotgun.

Okay. They found a spent 16 gauge shotgun shell was found in the garage on top of the family van. Was she shot and grazed with a shotgun too? No, we'll talk about that. Now Rob owned a 16 gauge shotgun, but had told several friends that Brenda refused to let him take it when they separated. And it's usually in a closet in the bedroom. The shotgun is missing from the home by the way. Oh, yes. One witness

by the way comes forward and says they saw Brenda at an area used for target practice near her family's rural Garfield County home eight days before this murder and later found several 16 gauge shotgun shells at the site out there. Now Brenda's wound was caused by a.22 caliber bullet. Who's got one of those? Prudential man just bought one. So Rob was shot once in the side and once in the neck. Oh, God damn with a shotgun.

Yes. From pretty close range pellets from the first shot entered his right lung, trachea and liver the second shot came downward into his neck so right over him cold-blooded making a fist sized tear in the skin that is horrifying man and hitting his aorta a medical examiner said that the wounds would cause him to bleed bleed to death in less than ten minutes Yeah, and by the way minutes with those shots out whether there's no way he was conscious and trying to talk probably With half of his neck. Yeah, that would be hard

Now Brenda they asked Brenda, you know, they're talking about the shotgun and all that and they She tells police if the shotgun were still in the house because they say are there any shotguns in your house? Yeah, and she said if there was in the house, it would be in the hall or the bedroom closet So there's that now James Higgins Who by the way was helping Rob move out of the house? Jesus Christ, he said he saw the shotgun in the bedroom closet back then which was a month ago month and a half ago The murder weapon is never found. We'll talk about it But they the evidence shows that he was shot with a single shot shotgun

Which we had to reload reload which would make sense for the one shell if you cock it the shell pops out that's on top of the minivan and then the second shells probably still in the gun still gone yeah cuz that's not one that's automatically ejects correct right you got to take those out you got a yeah pop it yank it out and throw a new one in and exactly there's no there's no rack in it that's a single shot guns are useless That's what I thought. I'm glad I had that correct. It's a children's gun. It's a shotgun. But it's a 16 gauge, a 20 gauge is really for the, for the like 15 to 16 year old boys.

You can murder a man pretty easily with it. You can certainly hurt people with them, yeah. It seems, seems like it's, don't talk shit about it. It seems like it's doing its work. I'm not belittling it and just saying a single shot's not necessarily a great murder weapon. No, no, it's not. If you miss, you're in deep shit.

Yeah. So yeah, they're talking about, you know, they think he was trying to shield himself with cans and all of that kind of thing. So they say, she goes on to say that, and all the facts say he might have been conscious for a few minutes. Oh Christ. During this. Now in the door leading from the garage into the house they found an embedded metal projectiles. They find an embedded bullet

because it was mashed up. They couldn't figure out the caliber at the scene but upon expert examination it was determined to be a 22 caliber. So that's the one that went through Brenda's arm. I think it's her left, her left bicep like right kind of on the side there. I'm trying to remember the picture which side it was on. So the uh when she called uh when she called James to ask him about it because I get or did she find it or did they find it? Yeah, I guess they found it here Oh the projectile was was damaged like we said to conclude it was too damaged to conclusively determine the manufacturer So the state presented later on they have experts to say the projectile was consistent with 22 caliber live rounds collected over the course of the investigation that will find

two caliber live rounds collected over the course of the investigation that we'll find. Now there's a live round that she finds in the house and when she called James to ask him about it he told her to throw the bullet away and not tell anybody about it. Don't say anything shut up. Yeah that's real interesting there and by the way that the shot to Brenda's in the back of her arm so it does not, it looks impossible to be self-inflicted basically. So Brenda's taken to the hospital for treatment. Her behavior was described by several witnesses,

and these are people in the hospital that deal with this all the time, as uncharacteristically calm for a woman whose husband had just been gunned down in front of her and she was shot also. It was wild So the Brenda says she agrees to speak with police because she wanted to help the police catch those responsible for shooting her husband She said so she's taken to be questioned still with the smock on and everything from the hospital and she really has no fucking choice I mean, she's

She's they got to talk to her you were there. We need information out of you. Yeah so the detective tells her you're a witness not a suspect don't worry you know all that. After the interview they took her to a friend's house and everything like you know they tried to be whatever. She was not under arrest at any time never handcuffed or restrained or anything like that. The police the problem problem is here, they guess they, she is wounded and medicated at the time. So they're still trying to talk to her. She repeatedly told the officers she needed to leave and the officers would ask more questions rather than letting her leave. So at one point about an hour

and 20 minutes into the interview she said can I go see my kids and they just didn't answer and they just kept talking 40 minutes later she asked again if she could go you know care for her children and the detective told her she could only leave after they finished the questioning. Now by that time she she's by the time she ends up being released from the police station, it's after one o'clock in the morning. And they said that a lot of the questions were pointed and confrontational. Here's five questions that are considered accusatory here. About 30 minutes into the interview, a police detective asks Brenda what had been going on with Rob, why he'd moved out and what they fought about, which is reasonable. He's dead. You're trying to divorce him. He also, then the detective left the room

for about 20 minutes. When he returned, he asked Brenda if she had loved or hated her husband, because he probably went and talked to someone who said, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him is what she's been saying, and expressing a belief that she seemed to lack emotion. And they said, did you hate him that much that you don't show any emotion about it?

And then he said, how do you feel about the fact that he's dead now? Then the detectives pressed her on her affairs, her relationship with James, the increases in the life insurance policy. This guy's got an $800,000 life insurance policy. You're having an affair and just filed for divorce. And you hate him.

And you hate him, hate him, hate him. So, I mean, obviously we have to talk to you. The detective then asked her about the incident with the brake lines asking if Rob had suspected her of the cutting of the brake lines. Near the end of the interview, the detective questioned her about her promiscuity and said, how many guys did Rob accuse you of having affairs with and then they

asked her if she was currently having an affair. At times during the investigation she curled up in the fetal position, knees pulled up to her chest under the hospital gown, wounded arm dressed and wrapped across her chest, back hunched over the chair of the interrogation room. So she's just shrinking. Yeah. That's not good. Like a mental patient. Well, when you shrink, that usually

means you're inwards to protect yourself. Yeah. So Brenda was the only living eyewitness to the crime. So I mean, because she was complaining that they took her in there and asked her all these questions. It's like, yeah, we got, according to you, we have two wild murderers out there who randomly shoot people.

We'd like to catch them, you know what I mean? That's very interesting here. And they said that it was very strange that she couldn't remember the words spoken by her attackers, any of them. Not one. Even a gist, something. It's, when you've got a gun

around and one's been fired, you start remembering those things that happen in that moment. You never forget them. No, and then evidence that the crime scene is starting to be a little goofy too here. There's no blood trail in the house, even though Brenda said that after being shot, she ran from the garage to grab the phone and check on her two children No blood trail not even blood on the handle of the telephone. Also the police find out about the affair They asked her ask her about that and then everything like that Then they they go once they find out about the affair they go search James's apartment They search his apartment and they seize a name change document.

Oh. That's got stuff on it filled out. A black book containing a list of weapons and ammunition and two 22 caliber bullets. Not the type used to shoot in the murder here, but different type, 22 caliber, not the shotgun shells. So then all of a sudden Brenda and Rob's next door neighbor Dean Giggstad pops up here yeah

now Dean says here they found some suspicious things in their home and they call the police in their house they had been on vacation the night of the shooting and by the way Brenda has a key to their house okay the families would get together over time and eventually he said the way, Brenda has a key to their house. Okay, the families would get together over time and eventually he said, you know, he gave them a key to their house in case I'm out of town and something's going on or, you know, it's good to have somebody extra have a key to your house just in case.

Also, if you lose your keys, you can go get a key from Brenda. He said that Brenda had that key for years. Now they said they were on, the Gigstads were on a retirement trip to Colorado before leaving town. They helped the Andrews break in a new hot tub. Ew. And yeah, I was like, that's gross.

That doesn't sound very churchy. You guys are talking about hoochie mama. You're all in a hot tub together. Break in the hot tub. That's a gross way to put it. Sounds tub. That's not that's a gross disgusting and Listened as Rob talked about buying his wife a larger home. Oh This is before he moved out. So he's these people have been gone for a couple of months now Now Giggs dad says that he thinks the killer ran into his garage

Climbed into the attic and remained inside the house all night as the investigation went on next door. Yeah, they said that the killer left 22 caliber bullets, a spent 16 gauge shotgun shell and a broken footstool inside the house. Giggstad, I think you're a very good investigator. You've done a nice job. Not bad. So yeah, then police go over, they find evidence that someone had entered the Gigstad's attic

through an opening in a bedroom closet. They snuck up there. A spent 16 gauge shotgun shell was found on the bedroom floor and several 22 caliber rounds were found in the attic itself. There were no signs of forced entry into the home, you know, like you needed a key. So the round, they also had found a 22 caliber round in Janna Larson's car, James's daughter's car,

which was one of the same brand as the three rounds found in the attic. The 22 caliber bullet fired at Brenda was retrieved from the Andrews' garage, appeared consistent with the bullets in these unfired rounds as well. Uh huh. The rounds are capable of being fired from a firearm that he purchased two days earlier before the murder as well, and they couldn't test it further because they never found that handgun that's the other thing he buys a gun and then three

days later he's like no idea where it is real loosey-goosey with my handgun I just you know fuck it yeah I just bought it I don't know it's mine I can do with it what I want I just put it you know I threw it in the river and you know that's what you do you get a gun you look at it you shoot a couple times throw it in the river that's what people do. What do you want from me? I'm told that's how you dispose of them. I don't know. So the 16 gauge shotgun shell found in the GigStats home was one of the same brand as the 16 gauge shotgun shells found in the garage. The spent shell. This is not good. Ballistics comparison showed similar markings indicated they could have been fired from the same weapon.

Whether the shells were fired from the 16 gauge shotgun that Rob had left at the home was impossible because that gun remains missing as well. Doesn't look good. Does not look good. So Giggstad's got a theory of the crime. And at this point, I'll take Giggstad's theories because he seems smarter than anybody else investigating this fucking thing. He's pretty good.

He's pretty good. And he's like an old guy too. He says, the killer approached Rob Andrew and shot him twice with a single shot 16 gauge shotgun, perhaps the same gun that Rob's father had given him when he was a boy. This is his heirloom gun. And the same one that Stump, the friend, told police that Brenda would not return to her

husband. Giggstad thinks after the firing the first shots, the killer had to eject the shell and load another after the first shot. In the process, he lost track of the spent shell, which was resting on top of the minivan. They say from what we can gather, he made the 20 steps over here, it's only 20 steps from the garage to his house, in about 10 seconds came through the garage and went up through a crawl space into the attic

where he stayed through the night. The next morning he came down from the attic and stepped on this footstool. It broke under his weight and he stashed it under the bed in the master bedroom. Fat bastard. He's not either. This must have been a weak stool.

No, just a shitty chair. One of those suicide stools. Yeah, shit ones. But probably for a kid. One of those, like, for a kid to brush their teeth or something. Not meant for your ass coming out of a fucking attic. Before leaving the attic, the killer abandoned the 22 bullets. When it appeared safe, the killer peeked out of the windows, staring out at the detectives and technical advisors who remained near the

Andrew home till about 4am. He said, I think he was probably waiting for everyone in the neighborhood to go to work the next morning. And then he walked out. But, Giggs' dad's son arrived at the house at about 8am, unaware that anyone was in the house. The killer must have heard the key turning in the lock and slipped into a bedroom closet to hide while inside the closet he realized he hadn't reloaded the shotgun and Fumbled to slide a shell into the chamber and the spent shell dropped to the floor where it was found later This guy's a fucking homicide detective. This is the neighbor. This isn't the homicide detectives theory He's got

it nailed because it's here. It must have done that. Whoever did it is a complete dip shit dip shit. Probably not a not good at this and not a not a very a lot of murders. Maybe the first time. So the gigstead said when I heard that they when I heard they found such a critical piece of evidence in the bedroom I couldn't figure out why he'd leave it there, but this makes sense to me. Giggstad's 26 year old son walked into the bedroom and stood with his back to the closet. He found the piece of nursery equipment he was looking for on the bed. They said if it hadn't been there, this guy would have looked in the closet and he would have probably been shot.

Would have probably been killed. Because Giggstad said when he reloaded that shotgun, I think he'd made up his mind that if anyone saw him, he wouldn't be allowed to escape. Also, police never found the house key that he gave to Brenda either. She doesn't know where it is. No idea where it is. That's not a good person to have your house key.

Nope. It gets weirder. November 26, 2001 is the funeral for Rob. So Brenda's got to show up with the kids and you know, put her least tight dress on and go there and look sad. You know what I mean? So Wade Burleson is the pastor who presided over the funeral. He said he met with Brenda a few days before the funeral to plan the service and he found her demeanor to be cold, flat and unemotional.

Burlson said, I want to help the people who grieve at the funeral service to understand the person who has died. I have a standard question that I always ask, would you tell me what it is that you will miss about your loved one? So he can use that as a theme. And they said, well, did she respond? And Burlson said, she did not say anything to me. She just stared at me. I thought she didn't understand the question. So I asked it again. Again, she said nothing. So I prompted her. I said, is there a character quality? Is there a story to help me relate to

others your love for Rob? and then she said one word Nothing oh my god. Nope. Don't give a fuck So he said he officiated this here and He said that they're waiting to start the funeral and at the time of that it's supposed to be is here But there's no Brenda no kids time that it's supposed to be is here, but there's no Brenda and no kids. Nothing. We can't start it without the spouse.

So he said in 40 years, this is the first time that the spouse who planned the funeral didn't show up for it. I've done a lot of funerals, man. That has never happened before. You're not going to take the kids to bury their father? Fuck, wait till you hear where she's going. So the funeral director whispered in this guy's ear. What do we do? Yeah, the fucker we do it's packed in here because it's a famous thing and now a lot of people are here

This is at the crossroads community or crossings Community Church in Oklahoma City She they said Brendan the two children are in here and we're already 15 minutes past the start time So the burleson said start the service anyway anyway Brenda's not coming. That's all there is to it. So the funeral director said I spoke with her on the phone 30 minutes ago she said she and the kids were on their way. Burleson said quote no she's not coming. Brenda murdered her husband she's on the run. That's what he said and the funeral director was like holy shit and went up and started the service.

That was that. No, I think I'd put it together real quick. I think I got this. Now on November 26th, the same day, someone attempted to use James's ATM card or credit card at a cash machine in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Oh, what? A border town here. So neither James' car nor Brenda's minivan have been spotted despite a global manhunt

by law enforcement and international media exposure on America's Most Wanted and Inside Edition. They did two America's Most Wanted on this shit. Now James on Thanksgiving, he's last seen on Thanksgiving by anybody where he met with his attorney and ate turkey sandwiches in the guy's office. What? Yeah. He went to meet with his attorney on Thanksgiving and ate turkey sandwiches and denied any connection to the crime whatsoever. Now Brenda's family,

cause they go, the press go to her family and they're like she didn't show for the husband's funeral this isn't good. Her family says no no no she's super innocent and that's she's a Girl Scout leader and a homeroom mom and a Sunday school teacher she's incapable of violent crime she's been abducted. Oh yeah they said that quote this is from the family's attorney quote quote, she may have, God forbid, met the same fate Rob did. These people are back for her, man.

They didn't finish her off the first time. Right. The guys got away and they're coming back. Yep. So it's at this point where James's daughter, Jana, steps forward and tells the cops everything because they had searched her car, found the bullet, and they're like, well, you have a bullet that's making you look bad,

so you better start fucking talking. She goes, okay. Well, my dad was telling me he's gonna put a baby in somebody. Yeah, there's that. Now, she said that both James and Brenda told her they were leaving because they were anticipating being arrested for murder after the funeral.

They were gonna- They were gonna go together. Yes, they were gonna wait until they lowered him in the ground, and then they were anticipating being arrested for murder after the funeral. They're all together. Yes, they were going to wait till they lowered him in the ground and then they were going to slap the cups of the cups on her in front of her kid. She thought James called his daughter several times from Mexico and asked her to send them money. Now she cooperated with the FBI, the daughter and local authorities to try to track them down instead. So this daughter here testifies later on

that in late October, a month before the murder, James told her that Brenda had asked him to murder Rob. Yeah. She said that, quote, he said, quote, "'You're never gonna believe what that nuttier "'than a fruitcake woman asked me to do.'" He's heard how forgettable he is. I'm gonna put a baby in it. He's just gonna say shit out loud and think everybody will forget this without a problem. Sure and then he told me that

she asked him if he would kill her husband or if he knew someone that could do it. You don't have to do it personally I mean just you know direct push me in the right direction. Is there a store at the mall I can go to? What are we talking about here? So the the conversation occurred around the end of October about the same time that James had asked his daughter to call Rob and tell him to drive to Norman, Oklahoma to pick up Brenda after the brake lines had been cut. She was the female caller. She called. Yep. That's absolutely right.

I guess the breaks were cut on the night of the 25th going into the 26th. The next morning, James persuaded his daughter to call Rob from an untraceable phone, it was a pay phone, and claim that Brenda was at a hospital in Norman, Oklahoma and needed him immediately. An unknown male also called Rob that morning to plea for this. Rob's cell phone records showed that one call came from a payphone in Norman near the daughter's workplace, by the way, like right by her job, and the other came from a payphone in South Oklahoma City.

So yeah, and we're talking about, we told you about the gun, the bullets that matched from her car to the attic and She says the daughter Jana says that James Had her car on the day Rob was killed and that the next time she drove the car She saw the bullet on the floorboard Yeah, so he borrowed his daughter's car to commit a murder apparently crazy Borrowed his daughter's car to commit a murder apparently crazy She obtained I guess James in the days following the murder James obtained information over the internet they find through his searches about Argentina Because he told people that he heard that that that Argentina had no extradition agreement with the United States

Yeah, he just like saw butch Cassidy in the Sundance Kid and we're like we could do that. It's fine. So then after that, after the murder, Brenda and James asked the daughter here to help them create a document with a with the forged signature of Rob granting permission for his children to travel with Brenda out of the country. So these people decided to plan a murder and then we'll plan the rest of it later? What the fuck? We'll figure it out later, but we'll get the other stuff. We've got to get the insurance in place first.

That's the most important thing. Insurance, murder, then we'll plan the rest. Then fuck it. Argentina's nice at this time of year. I hear it's lovely. So Brenda also asked Jana to transfer funds from her bank account to Jana's own bank account so that Jana could wire them money after they left.

So she said my bank account's gonna be a no-go, so you need to, we'll do it from yours. Now, inconsistencies in Brenda's story, besides all of this, which is kind of, it's over. Everything, yeah. But they need evidence besides one person. So her superficial wound was caused by the 22, fired at close range,

which was inconsistent with her claim that she had been shot at a good distance. She was supposed to be across the garage from these people. Expert testimony opines that the wound to her arm was not self-inflicted, but looked like part of a scheme to stage a scene to make it look like she's a victim. So, you know, it's less suspicious.

James obviously purchased a.22 caliber handgun from a local gun shop two days before the murder. Yeah, he borrowed his daughter's car, claiming he was gonna have it serviced for her. She's gonna be a good dad. I'm gonna go change your oil, honey. I'm a good dad. You come back, oil still gunky,

but there's a bullet on the floor now perfect. The car and then when it came back the car had not been serviced but a 22 caliber bullet was in her car. In a conversation later that day James told Jenna never to repeat that Brenda had asked him to kill Rob and he threatened to kill his own daughter if she did. Okay. Okay. Don't tell your daughter about your sexual activities or your murders and never threatened to kill your daughter ever. What kind of a, how could she like, what kind of a outlook mentally can she have at this point?

My father threatened to kill me and used me in a murder and then told me gross sex stories. Oh God. Um, he also told her to throw away the 22 rounds she found in her car, which she didn't. She turned it over to the cops. Unbelievable. A handwriting expert determined that Rob's signature on insurance papers that renamed Brenda as beneficiary after he had taken her off with the boss were doctored and they were forged signature.

Apparently, in the last year, Rob had began signing his name with a Jesus fish. He put a Jesus fish on it at the end. Everybody know what that is? The little Jesus fish? Yeah, the little guy that used to be a magnet or a sticker that people used to put on their cars. Absolutely, but it was not on the papers that he claimed were genuine, that James claimed were genuine documents, but it was not on the papers that he claimed

for genuine that James claimed documents, but it was on other ones. So they forgot to do it. That's wild. That's a big mess. Yeah. On the actual valid documents, Rob did change the beneficiary, but to tricity and Parker and his children with a fish. Now, Brenda is in Mexico they're all in Mexico remember Nunley there the guy he gets a call from her well she's in Mexico and she's like whoa this is fucking crazy Brenda was wanting his help in getting in touch with an attorney and her sister.

Yeah, remember all that free pussy I gave you? Now it's time to pay up. 10 years worth. Fucking loser. So she said she had told him, this is his quote, she said she had an important, or had important attorney papers in the children's luggage, a written confession.

This, there is a written confession. It is a written confession written by James. It's in letter form to Tricity, the daughter, and it is basically explaining that he killed the father and that he's sorry. Oh my God. Expert in handwriting verifies that James wrote this letter, by the way.

November 29, 2001, Oklahoma County prosecutors file first degree murder charges against Brenda and James. I mean, you have to here, obviously here. And Rob's parents file for guardianship of the children, at that point too, which is smart. An attorney for Brenda suggested she would return to surrender, but prosecutors and the FBI said a bullshit. She's not coming back to surrender.

One of the agents said we felt like they would be running out of money, so they're either going to give up, get a job, which would be very difficult because they're south of the border or seek help We felt like at this point since there had been no spottings and no sightings that they were probably seeking some help and they were They were getting Janet to send the money Now November 30th 2001 federal authorities now charge them with illegal flight to avoid prosecution as well They're still gone though

February 7th, 2002, Brenda's attorney tries to trade a confession letter, because he found the confession letter, James's, for a dismissal of the charges against Brenda. I'll give you this if you dismiss against my client, because in the letter it says Brenda had nothing to do with it. That's part of it of your mom had nothing to do with it. I should say The district attorney said fuck out of here with that shit one person was getting the money and it wasn't him So she's more than involved February 28 2002 the authorities here. What's about 1140 a.m. It's a Thursday and there's a guard here,

last name of Huerta, who's working at the border. Okay, he spots in a minivan, Oh, they took the man down? Two men and two children in a minivan. Two men, okay. Two men and he finds a very sad little girl who's crying, eyes red, crying, crying, crying. So he said, quote, anytime you see a situation like that, you check to make sure the children

aren't being kidnapped. Smart. I'm happy they do that. So the crying girl was Tricity. And she, he said he didn't know what the fuck this was. He just was a crying little girl. So he was like, oh shit, I want to, oh shit, I wanna help this crying little girl. So two other people were in the van.

It is Tricity there. She's accompanied by a crying boy as well, as we know, and an older man. The older man, I'm sorry, so it's a boy, a girl, and an older man. The older man is I'm sorry, so it's a boy, a girl, and an older man. The older man is Jim Bolan. That is Kim, Brenda's sister's husband. Brenda's brother-in-law.

He's there. So the huerta searches the bags, and the contents of the girl's suitcase included a diary and an assortment of hand-drawn pictures of dogs. So this guy, the border guy, said, I could tell she liked dogs. You know, he said she had pictures and drawings everywhere and you know, so there was that. So that'll come in handy for him in a minute. So the FBI and customs officials said the two children were in a 2000 white van driven

by James Bolan, who's Brenda's brother-in--law So they said that his story didn't seem to add up They felt like his story was somewhat suspicious why an uncle was coming up from Mexico with two young children makes no sense He's not even the blood relative, you know what I mean This isn't her many then hers is maroon hers is maroon Yeah Whatever he was telling the customs officers sounded suspicious to them, and they opted to detain him for further investigation, which they said happens quite often.

So, in an attempt to calm the little girl down, this border guard guy popped up with some trading cards that customs officials have for children. They're cards that feature photographs of the sniffer dogs. Oh, those are funny, yeah. Yeah, they're like trading cards of the sniffer dogs. Oh, those are fun. Yeah, they're like trading cards of the dogs, basically. This is Duke. Isn't he adorable?

And it has details of what kind of dog they are and their histories and careers and all that kind of shit. So this guy said, I went up to her and asked her if she liked dogs. And she nodded yes. So I opened up a couple of packs of cards and started showing them to her.

She just started crying again. So eventually this guy, because there's a million, if you've ever been to the border, there's all sorts of guys, you don't just get stuck with one guy, they're moving all around. So he said he lost track of the girl after that because he moved on to help with other inspections.

Then about 20 minutes later, something else happens. About 20 minutes after this happens, an automatic tag reader on the Hidalgo side of the bridge registers a hit on an Oklahoma license plate. They had tag readers in 2001, which is shocking, honestly. Well, that's probably 9-11 did that. Probably yeah. Customs inspectors soon confirmed the car's occupants were wanted by the FBI. Who's in the car? It is Brenda and James.

There she is. What? She left her fucking kids with her brother-in-law to try to get into the country. Wow. They called her a raven-haired woman in her 30s and a slim man in a blue shirt and sunglasses. They offered no resistance.

Wow, so the border crossing guard who was talking to the girl said he was called away from the fugitive's vehicle to help with another search. When he returned, they had already been detained and the car had been abandoned. They said the supervisor ordered him to put the fugitives belongings back into the car. He said, I picked up her purse. Its zipper was broken and when I picked it up, it broke completely. I could see inside the purse and I saw a picture in another compartment.

Just like that, I knew it was exactly the same girl. The little boy looked, the little boy, he looked worried too. I knew it was them. He saw pictures of them. Yeah. So they, he connected it right away. He said he rushed to a supervisor to issue an all points bulletin on that fucking Ford minivan.

Don't let it go, whatever you do. But he couldn't remember the color of the minivan. It's white. couldn't remember the color of the minivan. It's white couldn't remember that he sees a million In his defense, he's seen like a hundred and fifty cars since then so So then they saw the van near the entrance to the immigration office The guys go inside and call out the children's names they turn around. Hey Yes, and so they say ah, there we go Jim is a bowling is taken to a holding cell and later released

because he didn't really commit any crime, even though he did. He was eating and betting a lot. So for about three hours, this guy said the children cried nonstop. Customs inspectors gave them cookies, drinks, games, nothing helped. They were hysterical. Stop crying, fucker.

Stop crying, you little bastards, but they worry I mean their dad's dead their fucking mother isn't even with them. They're in a foreign country like everything's changed They don't have their puppy with them. So that he's this guy said they didn't respond to anything until they saw their mom About 430 p.m. The FBI took custody of the fugitives and the children I just pictured the kids in cuffs with their heads down walking away too. The clerk walked with a bag over their head. Yeah, with like a, I was going to say with a jacket going over their face. So they're going to be incarcerated, the adults are, in Hidalgo County Jail in Edinburgh,

Texas and the children would be with their, Rob's parents. The guy who found them said he was proud that he found the children, but he says he remains haunted by one of the details, a detail that he learned from Tricity in the moments he spent searching her luggage. He said, when I was going through her journal, the little girl, when I was going through the little girl's stuff, I saw her journal.

She had written something to her best friend about her new dog in November. I don't remember exactly what it said, but that was the last time she wrote before all this happened. She never wrote in it again. She's so happy, yeah. Yeah, now Brenda's in jail.

In jail, she comes in contact with Teresa Sullivan, who's a federal inmate in at the Oklahoma County jail She really wants out she really would love a shortened sentence here She tells the cops that Brenda told her she and James killed her husband for the money the kids and each other and Brenda also told her that James shot her in the arm to make it look like she was a victim. So tomorrow I go home? Maybe tomorrow. By the way, if you're going to stage something, because we've had this many times, if you're going to stage something, you have to have a life threatening wound.

You better fucking take a chance. You gotta say, shoot me on the side of the chest where my heart isn't and fingers crossed because holy shit, otherwise nobody buys it. So anyway, she is called by Brenda's people a known snitch. She said in the jail, she's known as the mouth of the south, to Sullivan. Get over there and talk to her. That's amazing.

And they also claim that Sullivan and Brenda could not have contacted each other either verbally or through notes and that there were newspapers available to the inmates in the defense counsel was allowed to produce the testimony of Angela Burke who testified that later on that Sullivan is a known snitch and that she communicated to Sullivan through cell doors and that she testified that inmates were sometimes out in the pod together. September 10th 2002, Brenda and James are ordered to go on trial for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. February 28th, 2003, they go their separate ways. The judge grants a

severance of their trials so they will have separate trials. Absolutely. So Brenda also wants a change of venue. She says there's been extensive coverage around here. People are gonna be familiar with this and this is crazy. The judge said this, he considered the evidence and then denied the motion saying, I don't think we're gonna know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box and voir dire them.

It's unfortunate but that's actually the only way that you can make that determination. You can't just say, people must know about it, so nevermind. Let's ask them. April 1st, 2003, Rob's parents are granted guardianship pending the outcome of Brenda's trial. So it'll become permanent if she's convicted

and not if it's not, if she's not. May 27th, 2003, James's confession letter is made public now. Oh. He takes full responsibility for the planning and implementation of the murder. He describes how he planned the crime and how he enlisted a friend to help. He says that after his friend shot Rob and he shot Brenda,

they ran and hid in the house next door. He says that he admitted his involvement in the murder to Brenda only while they were on their trip to Mexico. She was totally innocent Totally innocent later. Yeah She said that he said that Brenda was shocked angry and hurt by his actions and that she just couldn't understand why he would do it But this is in a confession letter to the daughter to try to make her feel better about this. So you know what I mean? It's crazy. So this is made public in a motion filed by Brenda's attorneys asking that the charges against her be dismissed. Well all cleared up now. So another witness regards to the letter from James introduced to trial stated that he and another assailant were

responsible and Brenda was not involved. He said that he shot Brenda. That's that's what's interesting too. We know you shot Brenda. So that's interesting. And also, Brenda provides an affidavit from James Boland, the guy who got caught with the kids in Mexico, who says that James told him the same story when he met him in Mexico just days prior to their arrest. Yeah that's his story now. He's not gonna tell this. Yeah. He's not gonna change it now. He's

gotta stick with it. So next up right after this someone confesses to the murder but it's not James or Brenda. No? No. It's another inmate. It's a guy named Shit Zaytan Tyrone Jake would and this guy is in jail for murder and He wrote a letter saying I am writing this letter to you to confess to a murder that I committed on or around November 20th 2001 he writes this to the district attorney the murder victim's name is Robert Andrew Okay He writes this to the district attorney the murder victim's name is Robert Andrew So he's being this guy would is being held in the Oklahoma County jail and his brother also is there They're waiting for trial in the death and robbery of a Montana man at an Oklahoma City Motel And he they're seeking the death penalty on these two

Most of what he writes about in his three-page handwritten letter The problem is all of this shit's been published in the newspaper. So he could have just read newspapers and and known this. He also doesn't doesn't mention the second assailant at all. He says he does say he climbed through a window next door and hid in the attic. But Dean Gigg status already said this in multiple articles. They talk about this all the time in these newspapers. And he said that the house was secure when he left and couldn't find signs of forced

entry. So unless this guy found a way to get a key also, unless he found a key on fucking Brenda's key chain and decided it must be for the next door house. Yeah. No. Hang on to this one for a minute. So they don't believe him at all. They don't know what the fuck he's doing because then after that he starts confessing to other murders that they know he didn't commit. Murders that other people committed on video. He's like, I did that one too. They're like, no you didn't.

I think maybe he's trying to draw this out and maybe get a deal. September 2003, here is James's trial. His trial is first. He wants a change of venue also. And there are some stats behind why he wants this. Apparently he says 1,527 stories aired on Oklahoma city's four major television networks from the day of the

murder until January 4th, 2003. According to Nielsen media research, these 1,527 stories reached a cumulative audience of 81,997,314 people. That's gross impressions. That's not how many people that is the Nielsen ratings for this. OK, that's yeah, 81 million back fucking a third of the country doesn't have access to local local Oklahoma City news channels. They just don't. So in a telephone poll of 303 Oklahoma County residents

conducted in September and October of 2002, 87% had heard of the murder and of these people here, 93% had heard of the case through the media, out of the people who had heard of it. Between November 21st, 2001, and the day of the murder, which is the day of the murder, and October 29th, 2002, 74 articles appeared in the Daily Oklahoma newspaper, and 40 of those articles were on the front page.

This was really covered, man. It was, it's Sunday School Teacher Massacre, and of sex and Sunday school and all this shit it's of course they also said nationally the story about the murder appeared in the 2000 October 2nd 2002 edition of People's Magazine or People Magazine twice on America's Most Wanted and twice on primetime Thursday so they said throughout the pleadings James's counsel incorrectly reports this number is 15,027. This number includes multiple

times a story may have appeared on a single day or even in a single broadcast. For example on November 27th a week after the murder a total of 20 stories aired. KFOR ran two stories at 5 a.m., two stories at 6 a.m., one at noon, one at six. They go down all of this. So the court ruled that most of the media stuff concentrated on Brenda, so don't worry about it, you're fine.

So yeah, they said Brenda had a lot of, a lot of people talking about her, she's the wife, not you. So the state's evidence, they have to demonstrate more than just motive. Obviously there's motive, but motive isn't everything. You have to have some kind of evidence. They do find a bunch of physical evidence though.

The bullets, the shotgun shells, forged documents, which linked James to the murder and a preexisting plan to get away with it, talking about Mexico and everything like that. That all happened before the murder. The testimony of his daughter. Why would she, why would she lie to put them away? Yeah. His own daughter helped to show that James and Brenda planned to harm Andrew for

some time and that the failure of the first attempt only emboldened them, meaning the brake lines. The daughter also related a number of incriminating statements from both Brenda and James. The daughter may not have been an eyewitness to the murder itself, but she was certainly an eyewitness to many overt acts of the two co-conspirators and to their preparations for flight after the murder. The state also presented the letter written by James from jail, wherein he admittedly he admitted complicity in the murder,

but attempted to exculpate Brenda Both parties rejected the letter as an accurate version of what happened Although for different reasons while the letter may have borne some relevance to show his complicity It was perhaps more relevant to show how jealousy and greed can fuck everything up here is what they say in there also the numerous other witnesses who spoke with and observed Rob and Brenda and James as their relationship with one another revolves. The evidence against James is largely circumstantial,

but I mean, that's not that unusual, obviously. But there's a shitload of circumstantial. I mean, it's a mountain. There's also, I mean, there's some physical too. There is. I mean, it's a physical to Bullets it's not guaranteed. No Forensics, but that's because he did such a great job of getting rid of the gun That's he just did a good a fine job of it. Yeah now the other guy remember the wood guy who confessed to it in jail He was waiting a trial awaiting trial on unrelated charges of first degree capital murder.

He happened to be housed in the same pod of the county jail as James. He just heard about it. The letters were handwritten, but practically identical. The one he wrote, he wrote two different ones. It appeared that one had been copied verbatim from the other or that they had both been copied from another source. While the letters were detailed, they were perhaps duty to detailed and appearing to parrot certain key features of the state's

case. So yeah, there's all of this shit and they had publicly done everything. So that's all public. September 15, 2003 is the verdict for James. Jury deliberates for two and a half hours and they find him guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Oh boy. Okay. Sentencing comes around here. October of 2003. Here it comes. You sir may fuck off death penalty. Oh shit. Yeah. He got death penalty on that one. Wow. Yeah. That's that. Um, so anyway, um, his lawyer said Mr. Pavett has great Christian faith. He believes that everything happens for a reason and that God is directing his life. This isn't the Oklahoma. This isn't the first time an innocent man's been convicted and sentenced to death in Oklahoma County, so

We'll work on that now July June July 2004 another Tupac song Brenda had a trial. That's that's the that's on another album Brenda killed her baby, and now she's on trial for it. It's a real tragic thing here so That's that's a Tupac lyric, by the way. It's a song. Not everyone's gonna know that, that's what I'm saying. People are gonna be like, that's Jimmy saying that. No, that's Tupac saying that in 1992.

Don't worry about it. So Brenda's trial here. Oh man. They talk about, her lawyer says, it's really going to be hard to get a jury. That is the kind of thing that has caused people to change to do change of venue motions. It's amazing how often something happens can happen in a town and no one knows

about it. This case was a big deal in town and may have polluted the potential jury pool to the sense that everyone knows about it. They tell her to fucking pound sand, but pound sand here, not away from us because we're doing it here. The openings here the prosecution in his opening statement told the jury Brenda had extracurricular activities. She liked to cheat on Rob. This is a quote by the way. Throughout the marriage Brenda had a boyfriend on the side. They go on to talk about how she's

accused of making passes at teenagers who are working on her deck and all of that shit. Another thing they really tout here. Oh my goodness. This really means she's guilty is the book the cops found in the second drawer of the nightstand next to her bed. Think about it. It's dark, man. Dirty dark. Two hundred three ways to drive a man wild in bed by Olivia St. Claire It's a it's a long Cosmo article basically you know what I mean That's that's not you can sell that on the fucking at a checkout line at the grocery store Yeah, that's what is there's an old joke about that 20, what is, there's an old joke about that. 203, yeah, there's an old joke about, it's like a hacky standup joke from like the 80s.

Yeah, Cosmo, 100 ways to satisfy your man. I can think of one, that's all you need, lady. Can't remember whose it is, but it's some bullshit. 200 or something is incredible. I kinda wanna read that. Tickle his feet, what is it? That's what I mean, there's gonna be ones that are probably not like Yeah like that. So

Yeah Now the prosecutors put a lot of emphasis on this book and her affairs and all this type of shit Meanwhile, all they need to concentrate is altered insurance policy bingo period. Yeah period to me That's it altered insurance policy No ran away to Mexico fucking case closed. No fish. You're in Mexico. Come on lady. Give me. Yeah, give me a goddamn break. So Also, they talk about this the Sullivan the probably the mouth of the South snitch there She was not facing state charges She testified that she did not expect any benefit from testifying because she's testifying in a state trial while being held by federal authorities. She just happened to be held at the county jail.

She said she did not seek out authorities with which to share her story. She, as well as other incarcerated inmates in the county jail with Brenda, were contacted to determine whether they had information. The cops went there and talked to everybody around her and said, is she talking? So there's that. Anyway, they do give the instruction that she's a jailhouse informant

and take that to the jury, take that as what you will here. So she's fighting the shotgun evidence here. Brenda's claim is, basically she's got different things here. They start with testimony concerning Rob's 16 gauge shotgun, the fact that Rob owned a 16 gauge shotgun was not in dispute.

The fact that he was killed by a 16 gauge shotgun, also undisputed. Okay. The fact that is significant, given that's significant considering the fact that a 16 gauge shotgun is Less common than a 12 or a 20, right? So he said the fact that his shotgun was in the house and now it's not and the murder weapon was that and it's never Been recovered pretty big coincidence

It's a pretty big deal pretty big deal the statements here They talk about a revolve around Rob's desires and expressed to witness Ron Stump to get his shotgun out of the marital home after Brenda had changed the locks and security codes on him. Rob told Ron that Brenda would not let him have the shotgun. The statement was made a week prior to the murder.

However, the statement was introduced to show that Rob did not have the shotgun, inferring that it was still in Brenda's control. She also, they're trying to get hearsay, they're saying something's hearsay and they don't want it in. Rob's statement to Ron that Brenda finally found someone to kill him after the brake line thing, and it was James, he said too, it was James Pavak guy. The statement was made just shortly after Rob had moved out of the house. The statement is clearly a statement showing Rob's state of mind at the time and

the court has ruled such antecedent declarations by a decedent are admissible in a homicide case to show the decedent state of mind toward the defendant or to supply motive for the killing. Those reasons only and it falls into that exception range. Testimony showing ill feeling, threats or similar conduct by one spouse toward another in a marital homicide case is relevant and statements by the deceased expressing fear of a spouse are admissible under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule. That's some legal shit for you people out there. We give you all sorts of shit here.

We give you crazy stories, we give you groundhog for breakfast, we give you dick jokes, but we also give you insanely detailed legal fucking nuances, which is crazy. Our show is fucking weird, Jimmy.

It's a weird show. It's a weird show We've had a lot of lawyers tell us nobody is gets into the legal shit like we do and they love it and all that stuff And then people are like nobody gets into the crazy fucking trash shit like you guys What weird things there? So also the statements to insurance people Rob's belief that Brenda and James tried to kill him by cutting the brake lines to his car those are Those that would be inadmissible, but the tape statements were introduced through prudential employees about that so After the evidence was introduced to show Rob's state of mind his fear of Brenda and the motive for the killing the insurance money

That's what they do there the conversations Rob had with the insurance company were introduced to show why Brenda had motive to kill Rob. He was trying to keep Brenda from being the primary beneficiary to his life insurance. The conversation shows why he would change the beneficiary to his brother. The phone calls were also introduced to show why the insurance company would not change the beneficiary over the phone at Brenda's request, increasing her anger and resentment of Rob.

She tried to change it back on her own. You can't change the fucking thing on somebody else's after they took you off of it. That's crazy. Wow. One of Brenda's main complaints, there, there's a con uh, testimony of attorney Craig box Rob Andrew hired box to represent him in the divorce proceedings Box testified that andrew told him about a series of calls from brenda and james Which led him to believe that they were responsible for the brake line incident attempts on his life

Meaning the I read it in the newspaper and all that kind of shit here Um, so the statements supported the conspiracy charge by showing when an agreement may have been consummated They also support the theory that the motive for murder was for insurance money so They also talk about the tape recordings of Jane James trying to change the ownership of the insurance policy with prudential His threats toward Rob and statements he made concerning Brenda's request that he kill Rob were all properly admitted. The same can be said of other statements Rob made to others about the trouble he was having changing the beneficiary of the policy.

Which he was telling everybody, they had people testified, yeah he told me he was trying. They said the remainder of the statements Rob made to others about being kicked out of the house, Brenda hiding money Rob's Statement regarding Brenda's belief that he was having a homosexual affair Oh, come on. You must be gay cuz I fuck all your friends that makes sense His statements about Brenda's affair with Nunley and Rob's statements regarding the changing of the locks and Brenda's refusal to let him see the children All of that there was also let in now Rick Nunley he testifies Saying Brenda called me from jail when she was arrested not only from Mexico, but from fucking jail to

Christ imagine that Now evidence of their sexual affair was limited to one question. You know, did you have a sexual affair? Yes That was it. The evidence of the sexual affair between them was remote. Its significance was a minimal part of the relationship for this purpose. James Higgins here testifies also because she's told Nunley and James Higgins

that she hates Rob. And she wishes he was dead. So that's interesting. So they're basically trying to show that James was just the latest guy and she wishes he was dead. So that's interesting. So they're basically trying to show that James was just the latest guy that she got in here and told that she hated her husband. She was basically just looking for a guy who would eventually kill her husband, basically.

So the evidence of her affairs proved motive and intent, and that's how that went. Now Brenda argues that her statements to police were the result of custodial interrogation, and intent and that's how that went. Now Brenda argues that her statements to police were the result of custodial interrogation, thus their introduction was unconstitutional because she had not been advised of her Miranda rights. Because they say she wasn't a suspect.

They make a point to tell her she's not a suspect but then they start asking suspect questions and they still didn't Mirandize her. Luckily for her, luckily for the prosecution, she didn't say shit to have it be, that's not the crux of their case. She didn't really say much anyway. She said stuff she had already told them 10 times. So here's more stuff that doesn't look great. Other evidence included testimony that Brenda had come on to, a neighbor said that Brenda had come on to his two, their two sons, adult sons when they were building a deck,

not the kids, this is the adults now. Somebody's testimony that she was dressed provocatively, well this is David Ostro, this is the Hucci quote guy, when they were, when they went out to dinner together, this was only six to eight weeks before the murder, the Hucci comment there. So an inappropriate talk about a trip to Mexico as well. She was talking about Mexico.

Ron Stump's testimony that Brenda changed her hair color after learning what color Ron liked and what color he himself liked, like her husband's best friend. And David Head's testimony about Brenda threatening to kill him. That's the plumber. Additional evidence included the guy, the funeral guy, the pastor, the testimony about Brenda's demeanor while making the funeral arrangements and then not showing up

for the funeral. Also, one of her friends talking about Brenda bragging about hiding money. Testimony regarding Brenda's attempt to influence the children with a puppy she got it today she's like your dad's gonna be dead you're gonna need some you're gonna need a puppy general for the murder that's coming up hang on to that for later you're gonna need that in about two days trust me Jana Larson's testimony that she told her father James that she thought Brenda lied when she told him She had not slept with any other men other than her husband and James And like recently obviously in the past

Testimony that James told her his daughter that the Andrew children were all trained and would not tell of the affair between he and Brenda She made her kids fucking keep the secret. That's gross, man. Evidence of consisting of a tape recording of conversations between Brenda and Rob recorded the days before the murder. These recordings included conversations between Tricity and Rob. Brenda next. Also also they talk about evidence that the prosecution introduces two Agatha Christie mystery books that Brenda had.

Fantastic, which ones? In Mexico with her, like, entitled Murder is Easy. Yeah. And Sparkling Cyanide. I would say it's not very easy at all for you. Yeah, you lying bitch Agatha Christie You lied to me. You know it Also, there's a birthday card from James to Brenda

Photographs of Brenda James and the children taken on a trip while on a trip to Six Flags over, Texas They're supposed to stop there evidence of James's infatuation with Brenda and finally the contents of Brenda's luggage including her thong underwear. They're gonna make a big deal out of that shit because this is 2001 so Cisco is singing that shit right now. That shit is out there. The ladies are putting thongs on. The fucking UTIs be damned. Let's do it. All of this evidence or yeast infections actually, all this evidence was introduced to show that the extent and the nature of the relationship between James and Brenda

and their intentions of fleeing to Mexico, not as a grieving widow, but as a free fugitive living large on a Mexico beach with 800 grand. Plenty of money there. That'll stretch in Mexico. Oh yeah, you can make that work for a long time there. Now the prosecutor, Galen Geiger, yes, Galen Geiger, like a Geiger counter,

hauling a suitcase toward the jury box from which he took out a pair of the thong underwear, waved them in front of the jury, I which he took out a pair of the thong underwear, waved them in front of the jury. He does, he's going to say he spun them around like her coming home from the grocery store and then said, this thong is what we found in the suitcase. It's been introduced into evidence. The grieving widow packs this to run off with her boyfriend.

The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a black thong and a red thong to go sleep in a hotel room with her children and her boyfriend. The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a lacy bra in her appropriate act of grief. Now you still need bras and underwear no matter how sad you are. So that's kinda silly.

Sorry old lady's so uptight, Galen. You get what I'm saying. Sorry. Sorry. She's not wearing fucking bloomers, but you know, what do we want here? Sorry, she's a fucking party. Not only did the prosecution suggest that Brenda was a sex-crazed adulteress, they also argued that Brenda was a bad mother who, you know, if you convicted her and executed her, would benefit her children if you got rid of her.

They said, would a good mother allow her children to read murder mysteries with their father laying in his grave? Would a good mother take them out of school and have them eat tuna fish and wash dishes in a pot and live on the beach? Live like a beach hobo? I mean, I guess.

So, at this point, he then says two words here that are gonna come back to haunt the prosecution later. He calls her a quote, slut puppy. I don't know what that even is, a slut puppy. You- Is that a play on slush puppy? I don't know what he's doing. You whore kitten. Yeah You skank duckling bitch. I'm trying to say sick puppy, but also Slut puppy. Slut puppy. I don't know that sounds great That is wild. Is it because she got him a puppy and she's a slut? I don't know

I don't know what he's doing. Is that is that puppy a slut puppy? That's what you buy someone to... I don't know what that is. I don't think the word slut should probably come up in the trial of... I don't think I should come up at all here. That's probably beside the fact I would say. How about a loose nice woman? Yeah, how about a friendly gal? Now, during deliberations here, there's a problem. A problem that causes the defense attorney to ask for a mistrial because the jury had to leave and go sit outside on the sidewalk for a little while

because there's a gas leak and an evacuation of the courtroom during deliberations. The jury had been deliberating more than an hour when the work crew outside hit a three inch natural gas line near the northwest part of the courthouse. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's a big one. As a biggie there, that's a big fucking line. The jury was taken across the street on the southeast side of the building

under guard by Oklahoma County Sheriff's deputies. They weren't just didn't say go to subway and mingle. They just you know the leak was stopped and the jury was resumed its work after about 15 minutes and they said missed. We should have a mistrial for that. They had to go out. So they had to go outside. It's a seven man five woman jury and they deliberate for for about seven hours over two days before

they come to a verdict here they find her guilty of murder and conspiracy now in sentencing they're asking for the death penalty real and they say she deserves the death penalty for things that are, the problem is some of the arguments are for things that aren't counted as aggravating circumstances. You have to, the only things you can present are things that are aggravators. You can't just say they're kind of a dick, so you should kill them.

That's clouding the issue at that point. So they argued that quote, she killed Rob because she wanted the money, she wanted the custody of the children. The prosecutor also said that she deserved the death penalty for the way she treated Rob after he had forgiven her time and time again. Now there's no objection from the defense

for any of this shit. So that makes sense. The prosecution, they're gonna claim that the prosecution was intentionally misleading the jury by pointing out to them that Tricity Andrew did not beg for her mother's life. She went on the stand and she say please don't kill my mother during sentencing? No. So yeah, the defense counsel had planned and had informed the court that he intended to ask Tricity if she wanted her mother to get the death penalty, but then the defense attorney never asked that question.

Possibly due to the fact that Tristie was having an emotional time on the stand and it was really kind of beaten on her too much here. So then they also attacked the fact that the defense used Brenda's 15 year old niece to ask to spare Brenda's life by and then told the jury would you put your 15 year old niece on the stand to do that? I wouldn't. So yeah, the defense calls these low blows here. Now, Brenda here in her defense here, she the prosecutor, I'm sorry, the prosecutor says Rob Andrews parents would like to visit him in prison. The only place they can visit him is in a grave.

Brenda has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity, so you should kill her, basically. The defense attorney said, quote, you have got children who have already lost their father and now the only parent they have left is mommy now. I am assuming them or some family member would make the argument to the jury why deprive the children with the right to have at least one parent even though she's in prison. Why leave them parentless?

It's just pointless. Also mitigating evidence as follows. She had no history of prior criminal activity, has never committed acts of violence in the past, was considered a good mother who loves her children very much the the death penalty would deprive tricity and Parker of their only living parent she has a family who loves and values her life she has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity was a kind giving neighbor and friend has an education and might be able to the opportunity, was a kind, giving neighbor and friend, has an education

and might be able to help other inmates, was a dedicated employee who worked hard, had been a model inmate since being incarcerated in county jail, and has always been active in school and church activities. Doesn't mean she didn't help. So help, she said, shoot me in the arm. So she says, quote, I plan to fight for my freedom to the end and the end is neither execution nor imprisonment. It is the complete vindication of my name. God knows my heart and he will deliver me out of this situation.

The judge says, you ma'am, may fuck off, death penalty. What? Keep on keeping on. Wow. Yeah, they gave her the jury record. This is the jury recommends it and then the judge gives it. So that's that. The jury voted for death for her, which is rare.

She is literally the only woman on Oklahoma death row. Is that right? Yep. Only one one just her so She says quote the verdict which sentenced me to the death penalty is an egregious miscarriage of justice I'm an innocent woman wrongfully convicted That's right. She said I love my children dearly and I'm a loving and gentle and compassionate mother

I noticed the supposed God-fearing people who celebrated my death sentence And I see that as human sickness. Oh You're judging people morally now shut up. You're a murderer. I agree with you, but I never killed anybody So you know what I'm saying I can say that you can't you're dancing on my grave. Well, I mean fucking Yeah, that's the point and and tried to get money for it You put a man in his. Yeah, that's the point, and tried to get money for it. So the district attorney said that he wasn't surprised by Brenda's comments.

District attorney said, Ms. Andrew has shown absolutely no remorse for her criminal actions from day one. It certainly doesn't surprise me that she continues to show no remorse after being found guilty of murder. And the other DA, Fern Smith, said the fact that she said the jury was wrong in what they did,

that it wasn't based on the evidence, that her conviction was egregious, was disrespectful to the court and the jury. Now she is the only person on death row, which means she's in solitary. There's nobody else there. It's just her. Holy shit.

She's the only one sitting there. Yeah. That's it. So Brenda appeals, obviously, based on I'm just going to go over the factors. I'm not going to go over what they are. Change of venue. She said they refused to do that. Here say evidence. That's why I was saying that hearsay exception before. That's the hearsay evidence. The brake lines cut. Yeah. Well, she said that James asked his daughter to call Rob to tell him that he needed to come to Norman to pick Brenda up at the hospital.

It's an obvious attempt to get Rob to drive some distance with faulty brake lines. Brenda claims there was insufficient evidence linking her to this incident. So they also talk about her other affairs. She cites the Agatha Christie thing. Saying that was inflammatory. The main thing though is the thong and the slut puppy.

That's the big one here. That's a tough one here. Also saying newly discovered evidence is Teresa, it's not has nothing to do with the actual murder. Teresa Sullivan, the one who said she wasn't getting anything the amount of the South here, actually she got a new sentence after that and allowed her to be released five months after testifying, even though she had

22 months left on her sentence. The sentence also after reviewing the entire record, who's trying to get the sentence, she's saying it was she was sentenced to death because of an arbitrary factor, passion, or prejudice. Or prejudice, based on slut puppy and things like that. So they find, the Supreme Court here says, we find that there was sufficient evidence

to support the finding of statutory aggravating circumstances as of a train, uh, heinous, atrocious or cruel. Yeah. Fuck off. In other words, no, 2017, uh, the James is appealing and a three judge panel and a two to one ruling overturn his death sentence really on the grounds the state failed to prove The shooting death of Rob was especially heinous atrocious or cruel. I mean, I think that's in the eye of the beholder man That's yeah. Oh boy was murdered. What's what's not cruel about that? 2019 though the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals voted 10-3 to overturn the three-judge panel and

put his ass back on death row. 10-3, that's much bigger. Much bigger. February 2020, Brenda's moved to Genpop. Where according to her lawyer, she's doing great. She got a job, she joined a quilting circle. Oh boy. Oh boy.

And she writes slut puppy on a big blanket. In January, two days after her attorneys filed the writ with the Supreme Court, she was returned to solitary, given no reason. They said, we're gonna let you fuck around. 2023, Brenda's federal appeals court here thing, on federal appeals court, the judges uphold her ruling despite the defense claiming an unfair trial and irrelevant information about her sex life and gender stereotypes.

June 11th, 2024 supposed to be James's execution day, but Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Gentner, Gentner Drummond has requested that several of the upcoming scheduled executions be rescheduled to allow more time between them. They're currently understaffed and preparing for an execution is time intensive. So he hasn't received a new execution date yet. So he's just being delayed. That's the judges or the, what, the mayor, the governor?

The governor's first name is Gettner? The attorney general, Oklahoma attorney general, G-E-N-T-N-E-R, Gettner. Gross. Very German, I think that is. Finally, January 22nd, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States, yes, according to this decision says that the prosecution

in Brenda's case, quote, elicited testimony about Andrew's sexual partners reaching back two decades about the outfit she wore to dinner or during grocery runs, about the underwear she packed for vacation, and about how often she had sex in her car. The prosecutor also displayed her thong underwear to jurors while urging them to convict her of capital murder and calling her a slut puppy. They said that the argument here, they say this violated pain versus Tennessee in 1991

decision in which the Supreme Court made clear that the due process clause provides relief when evidence is introduced that is so unduly prejudicial that it renders the trial fundamentally unfair. A 10th Circuit Court of Appeals decided that that pain exception did not qualify as clearly established precedent, but the Supreme Court disagrees and said that was wrong. Due process protects defendants from the introduction of evidence so prejudicial as to affect the fundamental fairness of their trials, the US Supreme Court grants her relief

and quashes her death sentence. So it commutes it? I think they have to do either a re-sentence or a commution here, we're not sure. This just happened like two months ago. The court ordered the Federal Appeals Court to assess whether the irrelevant evidence about her demeanor as a woman deprived her of a fundamentally fair trial

That was a seven to two decision by the way on that one. I'll give you a guess of one of the dissenters I I'll give you one hint the the Brenda probably had a pub on her Coke can at the end of it there There is a site save Brenda Andrew dot org. There's all these save Brenda. Really? This has become a cause for like, but if you look at the narrative now, they completely take out of it that she's a murder. Yeah. Because like they didn't call James a slut puppy, but James is still on death row because he fucking killed somebody They're acting like now Yeah, there's a lot which I'm either do I but there's a lot of a lot of

Sites and a lot of people who think that she's should be just innocent because they called her a slut in court Yeah, they're gonna convict her whether she was a slut or not They're gonna convict her based on the evidence. That had nothing to do with it. Now, it probably was inflammatory, though, to an Oklahoma City jury, to all that. It could have very well been inflammatory. At least they think so. So either way, I don't think she's getting out anytime soon.

So I mean, I think she 100% did it. Yeah. Oh, she absolutely did it. Yeah. So there you go, everybody. There is, we'll say, Enid, Oklahoma, even though it's not, there you go. Hope you enjoyed that. I guess if you're gonna murder somebody,

just blow everybody and then it gets washed. Yeah, well, only if they bring it up, though. Only if, otherwise, you just got a bad taste in your mouth for no reason. So. If you enjoy the show, tell everyone about it. Get on whatever app you're on. Please give us five stars. It helps so fucking much.

It takes 20 seconds. It takes so long to put these shows together. So please, please do that. Also, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Tickets for live shows, baby. 420 virtual live show, April 19th just like a regular live show except you're in your living room we got costumes weed the screen pictures everything can't wait for it also tickets to the regular live shows

we have May in Chicago get your tickets right this goddamn instant for that one please st. Louis is sold out the night before so don't find yourself in the same place that many st. Louisians st. Louisians are finding themselves so do that get in there shut up and give me murder.com follow us on social media at small town murder on instagram small town pot on facebook patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material anybody five dollars a month or above you are going to get so much stuff hundreds of back episodes immediately upon subscription of bonus things You've never heard before and there's so much good stuff Then you get new ones every other week one crime and sports one small-town murder and god damn it you take them all just take

Them you got it this week for crime and sports. We're gonna talk about the Spanish Paralympic team That was not handicapped or I'm disabled or whatever in any way, shape or form and some other little weird scams and sports. Then for small town murder, American Nightmare. It's a documentary on Netflix and it's probably the craziest story I've ever heard. They thought these people were faking a kidnapping a la Sherry Papini. They called these people the Gone Girl people because they thought it was that and it's a whole other thing, man. It is fucking wild.

They've compared that to so many things, and the only one it has been is Sherry Pavini. Yeah. So it's crazy. So there you go. There is that, patreon.com slash crime and sports. Plus you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right now.

Jimmy Ip with the names of the people who would never, ever call us slut puppies in court. This week's executive producer, Andrea Fellows, Joe Boyd, and her daughter Jocelyn. Happy birthday, Jocelyn. Happy birthday, Jocelyn. Happy birthday to you. I hope it's a great day.

Kyle Norwag, see you in DC, Kyle. That's going to be great. Kyle, why do I feel like he lives fucking far? Actually, no, I think he's up there. It doesn't matter. Kyle, you're terrific. Can't wait to see you. Kyle, we love you, damn it.

Also, Pat McCrotch, James. I'm positive that's really their first name. Back again, old Pat McCrotch. That's very nice. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, John McCoola, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbeast III, Danielle Tisch, Tim Kaine, Kelsey. Probably not that one, is it? Yeah, it's the senator from... That would be amazing. I'm sure. Kelsey Abbey, Peter's brother Mark McNeely, Laura Gordon. He felt Mike's punch, it was so hard. Alyssa Rockenbach, Felicia Barnes, Sarah would know last name.

Michelle Almeida, Ryan McClelland, Doug Kozak, Christine Kober, Dina W., David Shaddy, Kalyn Chukri, Gina Taylor, the other Jeffrey Lebowski James. Oh. Not the one. The other. Not the dude, but the other one. Fiona Fiala, Max Newbold, Crystal Martinez, Kylie Hollis, Adam Hauser, Melissa Victoria,

Doug Rose, Grace Hunt, Tracy Thum or Tom, probably Tom, right? Oh, I would think. Betty and Eddie, both of them. Betty is the more important one, obviously. Molly Ellis, Kurt Jacobson, Patty Nelson, Brittany McClure, I'm knitting right now, Beakza, B-E-E-K-Z-A, Beakza, with no last name. Emily with no last name.

Whitney, Amakree, Benjo, Benji. Benji, 25, 25. Or is it Benjo? I don't know. This could have been, who knows? Only Flams, James. Flaans? Is it Flaan?

Yeah. Flaan, the dessert. Spanish dessert. That's what it is, yeah. Rachel with no last name. Jay Jones, probably Jenny from the TV show, she was wonderful. Actually she wasn't from what I'm told, she was a monster.

She was a comic, you know she was a nightmare. Yeah, she was a pain in the dick. She was a horrible person, she was a comic who had to go into talk shows, bitter. And hire some random dude that fucked everybody, wasn't that true? I don't know, I just know that there was the, she had the, the guy got killed on her from her show because she brought the gay guy on to say she had a crush.

He had a crush on some guy. Yeah, that wasn't cool. Cindy Labonte. Jasmine would know last name. J.R. Henry. Hugh Garden. What is this? Amy Johnson.

Callista Milligan. Samantha Crouch. Sean Inegas. Oh, you better save that one right. Claudia McClough, Caitlin Bradbury, Andrea would know last name, Rachel Holloboth, Courtney Newby, Tammy Hartwig, Kim Sammartano, almost relation, not quite.

Oh, it's a Bruno. Mara Hempel, Madison Laustra, Carly Yu, John Donnell, Lelani, Lelani, Zwaga, David Thompson, Wesley Larson, Patricia Campo, Heather Hang, Mike Greer, Christina Janell, Nick Dish, April Lee, Heather, Heather Fiek, Carolina Nunez, Pacheco, Meredith Ivy, Degufy, Nunez-Pacheco, Meredith Ivy, Dagoofy, Dagoofy Falker, James. I don't think that's any of those are their names.

Yeah. I don't know, thank you. Think we're well off base on that one. A real name. Rebecca Gartner, Brittany Holyfield, Holyfield. Holyfield it is. Oh, LeVanders. And with an I, god damn it. Got robbed, Brittany. There was lots of money on the other one. Kim Ruckel. Oh no, heanders. Yeah, and with an I. God damn it, got robbed, Brittany.

There was lots of money on the other one. Kim Ruckel. He pissed all that away. Did he? Oh yeah. Probably. He built a house the size of a town, fucked it all up.

Didn't even buy a new ear. Sean Buck, Kat Hollabo, Hollabago. Hollabago? Holy fuck. Emmy Paniko, Kimmy Quacker, Quackenbush. Oh boy. Kika L, Kaitlyn Nicole, Wade Huggins, Jeffrey Robinson, Benjamin Sanders, Ashley Torango, James Lebensky, Jennifer Lacombe, Tabatha with no last name, Addie Kristen with no last,

oh that is the last name, T. Smith, Susan Slagle, Jamie Hofton, Michael Joan, Victor, oh John, that's John, James, that's how you spell John. That's J-O-H-N. That's it. John. What the fuck. Victor Garcia.

John, everybody. John. Every dude named John. Your name is Joan now. Tanya Gali. Royal with no last name. Kajal Lake. Christopher Andrade.

Jay Jones. Another one, Jesus. Alicia with no last name. Jacob with no last name. Sarah with no last name. Random Kennedy. Scary Hendrick. Elite for Jimmy.

PKM. MSTR. What is that? What, I don't know what that is. PKM Master? I don't know what you're doing But you're a leap for me or him Alex Z, Kerry Gage

That I hope that's not some fucking like Like a coded death threat maybe that's what I automatically go to Get either of us that's where I go go. Kerry Gage, Matt Herkey, Joe Nasternak, Alex Z, I think I said that, Joe, nope, Jay Munna, Ash B, Debbie with no last name, Carol Kervach-Kerchevich, Kerchevall, Eden McElwiney, Tasha with no last name, Brittany Jacobson, Dave F. Vivian Souza, Vivian Souza, Laurie Smith, Janice Clark, and all of our patrons.

You guys know you're the best. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. You fantastic, wonderful, just amazing bastards. We love you so much. Thanks for all that you do for us, and we just can't thank you enough. Keep hanging out with us.

Keep coming back. You want to follow us on social media. Shutupandgivemurder.com has dropped down menus. It'll take you anywhere you want to be in the world. There you go. That said, no, not that. That's the other one. Until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

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