Small Town Murder - #582 - Seven Murders & One Lie - Elkland, Missouri

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

This week, in Elkland, Missouri, when seven family members are brutally murdered, in two different homes, the lone survivor tells a tale of killing the murderer, after being wounded by him. The killer looks to be a teenager, who just snapped, due to too much responsibility for the family farm. But nothing turns out to be anything like it seems. The truth turns out to be a much more disturbing story, that leaves everyone in complete shock!!Along the way, we find out that we don't don't know anything about bluegrass music, that you can only put so much adult responsibility on a 14 year old, and that if you're going to slaughter 7 people, and try to frame someone else, you should plan the whole thing a little bit better!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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a charismatic influencer with millions of followers. But behind the glamorous posts and inspirational quotes, a sinister truth unravels. Binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo. Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on more crazy episode. You can't get any more crazy. I don't know how that came out wrong. On more crazy episode That is terrible on another insane episode of small town murder express Ten pounds of murder in a two-pound bag and this week Wow is this a lot going on this week? It's a wild story. We will get into that first of all though shut up and give me murder.com is where you get tickets

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some scams in sports and some cheating scandals but one is particularly is the Spanish Paralympic team where none of them were disabled in any way shape or form. Spoiler alert they did win gold. Is that right? Shocking. And then for Small Town Murder we're gonna talk about this documentary and also a book that accompanies it called American Nightmare on Netflix and it is the craziest story I've never been on the edge of my seat so much in the story wondering what's gonna happen It's like you think it's a Sherry Papini situation with a faked kidnapping But then you're like, is it real and it goes but it's crazy. I cannot wait to tell you this story

patreon.com Slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well Jimmy will screw your name all up. Don't you worry about that? That said I think it's time everybody Let's all sit back clear the lungs. Here we go. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout Let's do this everybody let's go on a trip shall we yeah Give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip shall we? We are going to Elkland, Missouri this week.

Elk land. The land of elk. Here it is. Southwestern Missouri this is. Not quite no man's land here. It's about 35 minutes to Springfield. But that 35 minutes it turns real rural. I mean. It's about 35 minutes to Springfield, but that 35 minutes it turns real rural. I mean, it's a long 35. There's nothing going on out here in Elkland. It's

definitely it's farmland out here. A lot of farms and, and especially back when we're going to talk about it. It's about 35 minutes to Springfield. Like we said, a population of this town, 1956. Oh, not, not too small, but they're spread out a good amount, though. I would say under 2,000 people. It says in Webster County, median household income here is about $61,467 a year, which is in the ballpark of the national average, but not quite median.

That's named after a president, yeah? Wasn't there a president of Webster? Not that quite medium named after a president yeah wasn't there a president Webster Not that I know of a Webster no no a dictionary, but not a president. They're a web No, no No, you think I'm trying to think we got a Woodrow Wilson. That's W's under that might be the close I'm maybe thinking of that and then median home cost here 232,100 dollars here thinking of that and then median home cost here two hundred thirty two thousand one hundred dollars here the post office could named Elkland has been an

operation since 1870 very simple reason why they called it Elkland when they showed up there was elk here so they were like well it's elk land well that's it I don't know if there's any more elk around here but it's there. In 2018 Elkland resident Helen Viola Jackson get ready to do some math here to figure this one out, was inducted into the Missouri Walk of Fame because she was notable as the last living widow of a Civil War veteran. We gave a shit about that? But 2018, how the shit was she still alive? How the hell is that possible? Did she marry a hundred year old man in like 1965 when she was

I don't under when she was like 18. I don't understand. Civil War? I don't know how the math works. Which Civil War? I don't know how the math works. Which Civil War, American? Of the American Civil War, not, it's crazy, I don't understand. What the fuck? I don't know how that happened.

I had to have that in there just for the crazy math there. And it is nearby Marshfield, which we'll talk about in the reviews, because that's where the court takes place, and it's like seven miles away and kind of where town is basically, is the home to the only intersection of the Transamerica bicycle trail and US Route 66

So yeah, there is a yeah, don't get hit by a car on your bike there Reviews of this town and like we said, this is gonna be Marshfield Which is right next door the reviews really are similar of what they would probably be for Elkland Here's five stars Marshfield is a small town. There are three E's in Marshfield. Everyone knows everything about everybody. The three E's. That's clever. I like that. I'm going M-A-R what?

I know. I was like, how does that work? We have at least 1200 in our high school, yet we still are a close community and come together to help people out, whether it's churches coming together to make food for those in need, or if it's someone giving a homeless person money to spend. It's a small town to have homeless people. Why are there homeless people here?

What's going on? Can't be that many of them. You think you can put them up somewhere. The two guys you went to high school with probably, like help them out. Two thousand? Yeah it's gotta be. Yeah. Four stars. People stay. Okay people stay. Marshfield is known for the town you hate but never leave. Okay. Four stars though. That's good. People are friendly but unless you're involved in a church

there is little community. Yeah because it's it's rural. I mean but unless you're involved in a church, there is little community. Yeah, because it's rural. I mean, you're out on your own, kind of. There's not a lot of gathering places here. Two stars, finally. Generally an okay town. Not too grand. People are incredibly rude and terrible drivers. Most kids I graduated with said they want to get out

of this town, and I've never agreed more. So it's a small town people move from unless they want to farm or something of that nature or be part of a religious community or be part of the church. I don't know. Uh, things to do here. We have the Missouri cherry blossom festival, which is in Marshfield by the way, it became, uh, in 2021, they became sister festivals, which I didn't know they did that. I know they're sister cities,

sister festivals with the Peanut Festival in Plains, Georgia, where Jimmy Carter's from there. Right. Members of the committee and auxiliary traveled to Plains for a ceremony, a whole ceremony there. Okay. The Cherry Blossom Festival's open to the public and most events that do not include food or a performance are free

You know just standing there doing nothing that's free The Missouri cherry blossom festival is an annual three-day event in the spring that celebrates the city of Marshfield and the state of Missouri Descendants or presidents of presidents are invited to come share their stories. Like we said, they said Washington Adams Jefferson Cleveland Ford Webster. These are just a few of the presidents that have been represented at the cherry blossom festivities. Celebrities with ties to Missouri are also invited. I'm not going to show up. Fucking clout and anything validate us. Please come through. Even relatives of celebrities is like your brother have like a show on HGTV great

Come on in Paul Redd got a cousin. Who gives a shit? We don't know he's from this area Then also there's the Starvie Creek Starvie Which is like I'm short for starving like feel a little starvy right now Starvie Creek bluegrass festival so we got that and there's four bands I have listed here. The Little Roy and Lizzie Show. That's a band. The Seldom Scene, like you're painting a scene. The Seldom Scene and Dave Adkins. We bring Dave in for special events like this. The Lonesome River Band and then the Larry Stevenson Band

will also be performing. You can't have a festival without the Larry Stevenson Band. Let's be realistic here. Yeah, there's not a lot going on in this town here, I would say. But I don't know, people seem to like it, I guess. That said, let's talk about some crazy goddamn murder that happens here.

This, wow, is this insane. All right, let's go, 1987 is where we're gonna do this. Everything kind of takes place in 87. Let's just do 87 here. Let's start with a man, James Jim Schnick. S-C-H-N-I-C-K, Schnick. Now, Jimmy Schnick here, he's in his 30s, he's got a dairy farm. he's got a dairy farm.

He's running a dairy farm. The Schnick dairy farm, that's right. Apparently, the Schnick family has been a part of the community for 250 years or so. They've been around this family. Yeah, they've been a lot of farming going on in this area. Jim worked for the volunteer fire department as well and the postmaster Jim Jacobs recalled that he once had been a member of the Lions Club as well. Oh look at that. So Jim Schnick is getting he's trying to find all the social things he can. From a newspaper article said Elklin is the

sort of town where everybody knows everybody else, which is just what the reviewer said too, it has two gas stations, a Lions Club chapter and a Masonic Lodge. You join one or both or the volunteer fire department. That's what you do for socializing, because there's nothing else going on here. Now, he's got a wife, Jim does. Sure does.

Named Julie Elizabeth, and her non-married name is Buckner made name of Buckner Bu CK any are and she's will later be schnick here. So Julie schnick Julie schnicks comes from this area as well Her family has a farm a couple miles away Her brother runs a farm and then her parents also have a farm that she grew up on. So this is- Families of farmers.

All dairy farming people. Her parents are Alfred and Elizabeth. Now Julie and Jim have two kids. They have eight-year-old Jamie at this point and six-year-old Mindy. So these are their kids. Now they live on their own little dairy farm. Jim Julie, two kids. Jim Julie, Jamie Mindy. And then there are is the Buckners. These are Julie's relatives. Julie's brother and his family. No, no just her brother. I

mean they live around but her brother Steve lives a couple miles, about six miles away on his dairy farm and with his family. So they're all, they're kind of right next, six miles is nothing when we're talking farmland. So other sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever. Yep, that's that. He's also a dairy farmer, another dairy farmer. So this brother is Stephen James Buckner, goes by Steve.

He's 35 years old. He's got a wife named Jeanette Ann Buckner. Used to be Bernhard, changed it to Buckner. She's 36. They got married in 1970. They have four kids with them living in this house too. Yeah, they have Stephen Kirk Buckner. He's 14, goes by Kirk.

So it goes by the middle name. So it's not confused with his dad's name. I would assume so he's 14 then they have Dennis Who's eight then they have Timothy who's Timmy? He goes by Timmy six and then they have a two-year-old Michael Bryan Buckner as well this family boys all Boys, which if you run a dairy farm. That's great. That ain't bad actually. That's called employees.

That's called the work force is what you're raising here. All shifts covered. They're slowly turning Amish is what they are. Like let's just make as many kids as we can out of to deal with this farm land. So yeah, all these kids live here and so there's six people living in this in this little farmhouse and they They kind of extended themselves Steve extended himself a little bit buying more farmland

so he buys more land and Due to this he's having a hard time paying the bills It's not easy they're having after they pay for pay for food and feed and all that kind of shit, there's very little money left over. There's not a lot of just discretionary spending. The kids don't go out to the movies. They don't go get new school clothes every year. There's not a lot of money going around here.

This, even though Steve has this over 100 acres, by the way, this dairy farm, even though he has this, the money's so tight he has other jobs he has to do. One here, I guess he had just purchased about 110 acres over the last few years, and that's where this is coming from, so he basically leaves his wife and sons in charge of the dairy while he struggles to make a living selling feed and cattle semen. He's a semen dealer. Yeah. Semen salesman.

That's me. I sell semen right there. But the residents of the town say basically this meant that everything fell on 14-year-old Kirk's shoulders. We'll talk about his wife and Kirk's mom, but at the same time, the other kids are kind of too young to really, eight is the oldest kid. Eight is a terrible employee. They're awful. They're just not good at shit.

Never mind child labor for morality reasons also. They're just bad at it. They're just not good at shit. Nevermind child labor for morality reasons also, they're just bad at it. They're just not good at farming. Well didn't they have one older than eight? They have 14. Kirk is the 14 year old. So everything falls on Kirk's shoulders because Oh for sure, yeah.

Because they don't have any help. No, the other ones are too young and we'll talk about mom in a minute here. But they say, so not only that, Steve is also, he operates a business that artificially inseminates cows So, okay, he'll sell you semen. Yeah, and you can artificially inseminate the cows and he also Replenishes storage tanks on nearby farms with liquid nitrogen. That's used to keep bull semen cold This guy knows his fucking jizz, man.

His farm jizz. He could write an encyclopedia of farm jizz, this guy. And the temperature with which to keep it fresh. Yeah, he knows everything. He is the fucking, the jizz sage over here. So, that's him. So the Kirk, like we say, the 14 year old things fall on him. He's a freshman at Marshfield High School. He's he's entered calves in the local fair, stuff like that.

He's a farm boy, little farm kid. He almost drowned two years earlier in 1985 in a local pond. His friend Bill Shoemaker ended up getting a medal from the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission for saving him and pulling him out of the water. Apparently, yeah, this was two summers ago where Shoemaker, Kirk Buckner, and a guy named Daryl Carr, they were fishing on a pond

on the farm of Dean Dugan in Elkland, and Buckner went for a swim and almost fucking drowned apparently. It was July of 1985, and the bill, his friend, said I knew he couldn't swim, so I just went out there and got him. And a neighbor said if it wasn't for little Billy, Kirk would be gone, he'd be dead.

Almost lost him. He can't swim and he got in a pond, what a dummy. Dude, there's swimming holes and everything else How do you not know how to swim? He goes fishing all the time fucking don't go impressing friends and shit. Why are you going out past where you can stand up? So yeah, I guess that's I guess You know, that's what happened there. Bill said that he said there wasn't much else to say about it we were friends.

It was just something between us. And he said, quote, I'd do it again. That's nice. That's right. I wouldn't let, I changed my mind. I'd let him drown this time. So Kirk carries a lot of weight on his shoulders. The weight of a full grown family with a farm.

It's all on him. He often handles both the early and late milking of more than 40 cows, so that's morning and evening milkings. At night, go. All by himself. He does the family shopping. What? And for the most part is in charge of caring

for all three of his younger brothers, including the two year old. What do mom and dad do? Well, dad is out with Seaman. He literally is out of town all the time. They say he's not home very often because he's out working. He goes to distant farms to set up their... Getting bowl swimmers.

To get their Seaman fridge going up and running. So they said Kirk would return each afternoon from classes at the vocational agricultural program at Marshfield high school, which makes sense for a kid like that. He's going to be a farmer. I mean, he's already a farmer. He's going to get better and better at this. He's just going to have to do it. Yeah. Uh, the newspaper article says though that he would come home quote to one of the town's few unkempt houses where his heavy set mother

Jan 36 presided amid the squalor to pile. It's basically who's it's it's based. What way do you hear the next line? It's basically who's eating Gilbert grape is going on around here except no one has Down syndrome. What's eating? Not who's. Oh, who's eating? What's eating? Sorry. 30 year old irrelevant movie.

I got the title wrong. This is a guy who mispronounces Pamela and he's going to fucking correct me. I know, but it sounds like somebody's going down on Gilbert Grape's mom. Who's eating Gilbert Grape or? Or Gilbert Grape. Or maybe that. Who knows? Who's eating Johnny Duck's ass? Someone's going down on Gilbert Grape actually.

Was he Gilbert? I think so, wasn't he? I don't fucking remember. Yeah, because I can see Leonardo DiCaprio calling him Gilbert. Yes, yeah that's right. Gilbert. And I remember my grandmother being very sad. And then being very happy when she saw Titanic. Because she said, oh my bad boy, that's right Gilbert and I remember my grandmother being very sad and then being very happy when she saw Titanic Because she said oh my bad boy. He's not

He's okay. She she doesn't understand. She'd understand acting and she thought he was really yeah Pretty good. Yeah, she was so happy when she saw that. That's the boy. Oh my yo, I'm so It was a handsome young boy and he couldn't tell, you know, he had the problems. I remember him saying, Gilbert though, saying the B with his top teeth on the bottom lip, not Gilbert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he was sad, I hated it. So the cardinal goes on to say, two piles of garbage lay just outside the door. Candy wrappers and old boots were strewn out in front

under a five-foot maple tree where a ramshackle ladder of two-by-fours had been nailed to the trunk. Here's a quote from an Elkland resident, quote, she weighed 300 pounds and never took a bath. Then he said, quote, don't quote me by name, I've got to live here. That's what he said to the newspaper. Never took a bath. That's the main problem. She's a pig. That's what they're calling her.

You can be heavy set but fucking bathe yourself. Jesus Christ. Yeah, Jesus fuck. So another neighbor said his dad was never home. It got too much for Kirk. You take a 14 year old and have him go to school and take care of a bunch Of kids and milk the cows and that's day after day I think the boy just had nothing to look forward to that's how I feel

So Kirk has got problems sometimes he'd have to miss school because the farm work was too overwhelming So he couldn't go to school that day Jesus crap, I don't get them. They're going to be all chafed. So other times he would visit neighbors asking them for odd jobs to earn money because he needed money. So he's doing all this and trying to find odd jobs too. Like this is way too much responsibility for a 14 year old. By far.

It's crazy. But he never apparently, he would never bitch to adults. That's the thing. He would only complain to his friends once in a while But he wouldn't ever complain the people who could change the situation for him Although I don't know what could be changed It's a tough life. They're trying to make ends meet there's really dad Can't go I'll come home and take care of everything because then they lose the farm completely they have nothing Can you give me a slimmer able-bodied mother to take care of my brother so that I can do this shit

At least that One friend one of the guys he was fishing with actually that when he almost drowned said he complained about milking getting up so early And then another kid here said Kirk's father and mother just sat around the house And he was out feeding the cows milking them. He was they said, you know this week coming up and he was out feeding the cows, milking them. He was, they said, you know, this week coming up that he was cutting stuff and told us he was tired. One kid said a bunch of times last summer, Kirk told us, I'm just sick of doing everything around here. And what ends up happening is the dairy business suffers, you know,

cause a 14 year old isn't capable of running his own dairy farm while he's got school during the day too. Unfortunately, yeah. That's tough. Um, and said it was just too much for a 14 year old to handle. The milk, because the conditions of the farm were deteriorating cause he couldn't keep up with everything, the milk was given a C grade by inspectors. Oh no!

Meaning a major loss of income cause they pay you based on the quality of it. You gotta have grade A milk. Yep. So there were rumors that foreclosures were in the works on the farm and everything like that. So it's a lot. Neighbors near here believe that this kid just, it's a lot on him. One neighbor said more can be put on a person than he can take.

And she describes their house as a dirty wood frame house that the Buckner's called home. She said he didn't have the kind of life that other children have. He didn't have the money other children had to spend. And other neighbors just said he ran everything. And one one neighbor said you don't turn a farm over to a kid. I him working all day long he did all the milking he was worked to death I just think that Kirk had to work harder than a 14 year old boy should have to work you just can't do that to a kid so Kirk's life is shit basically it's hard man it is a hard this kid's gonna look like he's 45 when he's 21 he's one of those kids just Just for being, working and being beaten down.

So September 24th, 1987, Kirk goes to the local service station that evening and to borrow a car jack from the service station. Such a small town, the service station lets you borrow tools. That's how small the town is. Oh, Kirk, yeah sure sure just bring it back tomorrow. So everybody describes Kirk as when he's not farming he likes to hunt and fish. They say he was friendly but sometimes he kind of moped around. One person, one of the kids he was fishing

with said that he was kind of weird but then when asked what specifically he was weird with he said, I don't know General, you know, he's always farming and stuff. That's just weird The last time this is the Thursday night is when he was putting he put gas into the farm into the family farms tractor at the gas station got an automobile jack and And another neighbor then observed him chopping greens for the cows to eat. He's busy. The, so he made a big pile of them to eat. Now the next day, the next morning, I should say September 25th, 1987, early in the, in the morning, like a farm early farm morning here. Um,

there's a phone call from the eight year old, from Jamie. This is Jim and Julie's kid, Jamie, not Kirk's brother. That's the Buckner family. So that's the Schnicks now. Jamie Schnick calls up his grandparents, Alfred and Gene, that's his mom's parents there, to come over to the house because something was wrong. What is wrong?

Well, let's see here. Alfred and Jean show up about 6 a.m. and they find, they find James, Jim Schnick, lying in the kitchen with blood all over the place. He's got a gunshot wound to his abdomen and lower leg lying on the kitchen floor now They said when they got there the first cop that arrived said that schnick was just berserk He kept saying don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. He fought us then laid on the floor and passed out apparently from shock. Oh

He's doing that shit. Yeah, that's crazy Yeah when people go into shock and they don't know that somebody like I'm AMT trying to help them and they're just you almost can't take anything they say and like value it for anything that matters No lunacy now their mind is completely fucked at that. You're shocked, it'll screw your whole head up now. Yeah, and blood loss. They look around and Gene Buckner, the Gene Buckner here, the mom, Julie's mom,

went into the bedroom and found Julie in her bed with two bullet wounds in her forehead. Dead. Dead, mom's dead, yeah. She's, Julie was only 30 years old here. I guess she was shot twice at close range in the forehead as she slept. Never knew, she's still in her sleeping pose,

never knew what happened. Now, back out in the living room, a few feet from where Jim Schnick was freaking out and going berserk and going in the shock Kirk's body is laying there. He's dead young cousin. Yeah, we live here. Nope 14 year old Kirk He'd been shot three times Kirk in the chest neck and back and he'd been stabbed twice. What the fuck Kirk is very dead a 22 caliber revolver is found in Kirk's right hand as he lay there dead.

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He said, Kirk snapped, came in the door shooting. Really? Kirk snapped, yeah, he said, Kirk snapped, came in the door shooting. Okay. So the police arrived here, Webster County sheriffs, they arrive, and luckily, the two schnick children, Jamie and Mindy, this eight and six year old, were, they slept, they're sleeping still. Unharmed. Completely unharmed, sleeping in their beds.

Hmm. Well well not sleep They were sleeping one called the cog called everybody, but they were fine They they slept through this all the first shots were heard in the area at 455 a.m. They weren't at this house either we'll talk oh yeah around 715 a.m. weren't at this house either. We'll talk about. Oh yeah. Um, around seven 15 AM the, the cops are, you know, obviously going looking through this scene. There's two dead people, two kids and a wounded man. They said, well, Kirk came from his house. We have to go tell his house.

What the fuck's going on. Yeah. Those cows, their udders are going to burst otherwise. Oh boy. They've got to be in Gorge by now. So they send one of the cops to the Buckner home to Do a notification and kind of see what the hell's going on over there so Inside the home here is the description here from a newspaper The inside of the home is cluttered dirty clothes cover the floor and uneaten food spoils on the kitchen table. Apparently Kirk didn't have time for his housework that day either.

Also, like he didn't have time to vacuum and shit cause he's doing everything else. The body of Michael, the baby, no, two years old found in a play pen in the living room where he was sleeping among a pile of stuffed animals It's fucking horrible. Timmy and Dennis Buckner are still in their beds Each had been shot twice in the head shit all the kids are dead in the house dead. They're all dead I mean the whole family they're all dead. Yeah, everybody's dead. Mm-hmm That was we'll find out here. So yeah, that's the three young children there

and then Kirk's dead in the house over here. So all four of their kids are dead. Right. Dennis and Timmy were asleep together on the top of a bunk bed when they were shot. God damn it, that's fucking horrible, man. They said a pillow sodden with blood sat propped up on the headboard, which was decorated with a garbage pail kid detail very

1987 decal a crayon rendering of a giraffe sign Timmy hung on the wall Oh, Jesus both were shot in the head two times each the sheriff said Then they think Kirk walked down to the barn where his mother was milking really, apparently she was out there and she is dead also shot out by the in the barn. They find her out there. Yeah Which is obviously crazy. She'd been shot once in the head. So now everybody is dead one guy's wounded We haven't found Stephen Buckner yet. Where's dad? Yeah where's dad? Well they ended up finding him on a road. Selling semen. He was just roadside semen he had a styrofoam cooler and he was just like who needs it? They find him on a gravel road near a

cemetery right by a cemetery that runs between the schnick and buckner farms. There's a gravel road that connects them. He's dead there? He is dead. He was shot as he sat in the cab of his pickup truck. They said. Oh, God damn. He'd been shot twice in the head and his body was dumped near the local cemetery.

They said because there's blood all in the pickup truck. So he was shot while he was in the cab, but his body is dumped kind of on the outside gates of a cemetery. Well, that's wild. When you get a chance, put that in the ground too, if you could. A 14 year old did this, huh? That's what they assume.

So in the pickup cab was the uniform and the red helmet that Steven Buckner wore as a member of the volunteer fire department. He also had a shotgun, a box of shells, and a hunting knife in there. So., he had to be shocked. This, where he was found is exactly pretty much halfway between the two homes. So this is a fucking, this is insane. This is nuts man. This is two families. There is seven, at least destroyed. There's seven dead people right now, including the murderer here, so it's a lot going on.

But that's not the end of this by any stretch. Can't be. So the news media hears about this, slaughter at two farms, they go bonkers. I mean fucking bonkers, man. It's a lot. So this is how they think it went down based on everything and based on what Jim Schnick

told them and based on what the scenes tell them here. They seem to think the boy just snapped. Kirk, he snapped. He couldn't take it anymore. He said, fuck it, I'm done. Killed his mother, they think, first outside, then went in and killed his two brothers, then his little brother, and then Steve they think somehow was either coming home from something or about to leave

to go somewhere and he went out and shot him in the truck, drove the truck to the cemetery, dumped him off there. That's what they think, which is about three miles away. Then he had driven to the schnick farm with his dad's truck, covered in blood and killed his aunt and before he got to the kids or anything else they think that Jim, because Jim said that he was unaware that anything was going on in the house, he came in from his morning milking and took off his boots and sees what was going on in the house, he came in from his morning milking and took off his boots and sees what was going on. It was just before six a.m., it was dark in the house, and apparently Kirk came up and fired at him, and that's when he said that hit him in the leg,

and so he stumbled into the kitchen, because it's small, grabbed a knife, and just lunged at Kirk From a close range and stabbed him in the chest which actually pierced his heart Wow Then after two stab wounds and weakened him obviously he Jim says he grabbed for the gun and shot him He said I don't know at least twice. I shot him Okay, and leaving powder burns on I shot him. Okay.

And leaving powder burns on, on his stomach as well. Yeah. A bullet in Buckner, this Kirk's neck. So there's a bullet in his neck and another that entered his side pierced his lung and heart. Okay, so there's two that are good.

His heart's been pierced twice here, so he was very dead. Now they said about Kirk's gun that he had in his hand they said he had to reload at least once. They described the weapon as a little cheapy 22 Saturday night special that had been registered in Jan Buckner's name in 1981. It's his mom's gun he took. Okay now they said we think Kirk Buckner killed his three brothers first. They said, maybe possibly starting with Michael who was found in the playpen in the living room. And the cop said, I don't understand. This is one of his,

one of Kirk's friends actually said this. I don't understand about the two year old Kirk was so close to him. He played with them all the time. It was like, why would he kill his little brother? He can't even be a witness. Like you could kill people in front of a two-year-old. It doesn't matter. So they said it wasn't until Jim Schnick had been admitted to the hospital in Springfield that he learned

that his wife had been killed. He said he just came in and struggled. He had no idea about his wife, kids, anything. He never got past being shot in the living room, basically. So he's listed in fair condition in the hospital. So everybody's going, why, why? Why do this, why kill everybody? Run away if you have to, don't kill everybody. So they don't know, they say that it's a

financially strapped family, he carries too big of a load and maybe he just snapped, they don't know. The Webster County Sheriff Eugene Fraker, who's the first guy on the scene and the guy who's gonna stick with this case throughout, it says, he was not the macho type, not the Rambo type. He was a very meek child. Some people keep it bottled up inside, I guess.

There may be something more behind it. Hopefully we'll find out in the next few days. Now, Grandpa, Alfred, who found all this mess, he was the one who found his dead daughter, which is horrible. Yikes. He's now lost a daughter, a son, a daughter-in-law, four grandsons,

because he's, you know. All these people are dead. All these people are his family, you know. He said, Kirk was your average 14 year old. Didn't know he had any problems. He didn't voice any complaints. He said, Kirk was raised on a farm. He also baled hay and raked all summer

for some of the neighbors in me. So they said he was used to hard work. That wasn't, it wasn't like he was, you know, coddled and then all of a sudden they said, now you're working 14 hours a day on a farm. Like, so he could handle it. He said, as for the boys' relations with his father and uncle, he said, now you're working 14 hours a day on a farm. Like, so he could handle it. He said, as for the boys' relations with his father and uncle, he said, the Sunday before we were all out on a private picnic together, all played ball, Kirk his brothers, his cousins.

None of this makes sense. He didn't seem mad at anybody. He said he joked and kidded with his father. He thought the world of his little brothers, that's what makes it so hard to understand. I wish I had some idea it would help my mind. These people just don't know how to deal with this. He said he can't condemn his grand son. You can't condemn him.

He said, I thought a lot of the boy. I have no ill feeling. And yeah, one of the neighbors said when something like this happens, we pull together. He said, it may sound strange to you, but in in Elkland they just throw down some coffee cans on a cafe counter and people put money in to help with funeral costs. We're taking care of things the best we can. They're trying to be a family here. So Kirk remembered as a mild mannered kid who liked to hunt and fish like everybody

else around here. A cattle breeder who lives in the area named Archie said Kirk asked me last week to take him dove hunting. I was too busy. Makes you feel like a heel. Makes you feel pretty bad. Pretty bad. Another neighbor said it's unbelievable. It doesn't seem real that that many lives could be gone. He always acted as if he wanted to do something for somebody or himself. He was just a boy trying to get through life. I don't know what snapped in him. We never will. Or maybe we would never will. They say, um, a lot of these people here, um, one kid, the Darrell car who was with him and that's the

kid who, by the way, said he was a little weird. And then they said how, and he said, I don't know. He said the next day at school, he was mad at the kids, because all the kids are talking about this. And he said, I told the kids at school to shut up. I told them he wasn't the one who did it. I just walked out of school. When I came home, I saw what was happening around here, and I just started crying. So he can't take it that his friend that he likes did this.

Another friend also left school. He had planned to go hunting with Kirk today. They had plans. He says, to go hunting with Kirk today. They had plans He says quote. He had a new gun and he wanted to show it off Kirk did Kirk did I think he did shut it off. Yep He said I'd surprised me a lot there had to be more to it than anybody thinks right now The principal of the high school Said of course the kids were shocked. It's been traumatic for some.

Most of the older students didn't know him, but most of the freshman class did. One of his best friend said that they drifted apart. It's the one who saved him from drowning in the recent months, but he said not for any real reason. We just kind of got with other guys, but that sounds different than he wanted it to come out. I think and he was like, hey don't print that if you could. Let me say that again. They're like, oh no, that'll work.

Too late. It was live. It's already up. He said, but we still saw each other and said hi and stuff. He said Kirk stopped by from time to time to see him and the talk would turn to hunting, which was Kirk's big passion. He said he'd always asked me to go out coyote hunting. He said we'd go out late at night and listen for the coyotes and track them down, but they never had they never actually went

now On the last day before this the 24th the day before the murders Kirk for some reason went to hang out with his friend again that he hasn't hung out with in a while Bill he said he was acting real weird. He hung around me all day. We even went to lunch together and we hadn't done that in a long time. But he said they didn't talk much the whole time. They hung out all day but didn't talk much and he said he was puzzled by Kirk's sudden

interest in being his friend again. He didn't understand it. And then he came back to school the next day and learned that Kirk slaughtered his family that morning. So he didn't understand it at all. He said, I'm going to miss him. He was a good friend. I have a lot of good memories with him. He said, and then the article says then bill quote left to ride his motorcycle. He said he wanted time to think he's 14.

It's me in the wind on my motorcycle when I'm 14. What the hell is happening here? Now the junior high principal, the school he went to, the junior high before high school, said the killings were out of character for Kirk. He said, I knew him pretty well. He didn't get in trouble. He was one of the kids I enjoyed talking to because I felt that I was getting through to him. He described him as a country boy and not a top student, but one that would quote, give you an honest effort in class. Not the brightest bulb, but he'll try hard.

He'll try hard. He'll get, if B is what he gets, that's the best he can do and that's fine. The boy's doing his damn best. He's doing his level best, that's what I say. So another kid, Bill Roberts, a teacher who taught an agricultural class that Kirk was in, said he also knew the boy from the county fair where he had shown cattle.

He said he was your average kid. You wouldn't pick him out of a crowd as someone different from other students. And he said, I didn't see any behavioral changes in him over the last few weeks. He said, I didn't see anything building up in him at all. So they're trying to figure this out. Like, is there an escalation? Have you has he been saying I'm going gonna shoot my fat mother in the forehead when I get home and you know fuck my other family too. The school superintendent

said there's just no answers that's what's so surprising to the principal his teachers and the students there was nothing to show a reason for this he was no problem at school. Okay now Jim's at the hospital. Yeah. Turns out his wounds are not that severe. No? Nope, turns out he's got, it's pretty much a graze to his abdomen and he's got a gunshot in the leg.

Now, one of the deputies that comes in, and again, small town, this is a problem, one of the investigating deputies, this is one of the first two officers to arrive at the scene and the guy who went to the Buckner house and found all of them, Deputy Rowe. He shows up at the hospital to question Jim, accompanied by his wife.

He brings his wife. No, no, Jim's wife is dead. This guy brings his wife to a, to this. No, and Rowe told him, I'm your friend, but I'm here as the deputy sheriff, so I gotta talk to you here. And they said he seemed alert and conversant. He proceeded with the interview in which he said

that he had been assaulted by an intruder, which he found out was Kirk. He also said that he has been having, not Kirk, Jim has been having an extra marital affair Going on so, you know, he thought maybe it was somebody who was mad about that But it wasn't and he's had a long-standing feud with Steve Buckner and we'll find out why that is in a minute But he gave his accounts The same thing he said I go he came and he shot at me and that was that.

So when paramedics arrived at the schnick home and they found the pistol in Kirk's right hand on the floor, the thing that perplexed them was Kirk was left-handed. Most people shoot with their. With their dominant hand. With their dominant hand. So they're like, that's odd, but you know, who knows? They said, it's quite possible.

It's pretty hard to pick up a gun in either hand when you're dead, is what the guy said. So the cops, he's like, who knows? So they're questioning all of Kirk's, everybody's relatives here. And like I said, there's nothing weird. The only other question they have guns in the wrong hand. And how the fuck does a Kirk weighs 91 pounds? How does a 91 pound boy load his over 250 pound father into a pickup truck and dump him in a cemetery? How the fuck do you do that? That's I mean maybe some farm equipment who knows? So the editor and publisher of the Marshfield Mail newspaper said it was quite

It's quite easy to believe the story that Kirk Buckner has has done it. It looked like the boy did it It looked pretty conclusive They do an autopsy on Kirk. They find out that he'd been shot through the heart stabbed through the heart They said either wound would have been almost instantaneously fatal. So the gunshots were not necessary. Didn't have to do it. No, now two days after the murders, two days after, things start to get a little bit weird. Number one, Jim, they found out that his wounds

were not severe enough to even, his wounds were only severe enough to warrant an overnight stay in the hospital and release him the next morning, but he told doctors he didn't want to be released. He wanted to stay. Keep me. Yeah. Keep me.

Once he was released from the hospital, he went to his wife's parents' house who were taking care of the kids at that point. So he moves into their house. On October 1st, 1987, Jim talks to the cops again, because they're like, now that you're, you know, out of a hospital bed here, let's do this. So he does, and he gives a pretty similar account, but a little more elaborate of what happened

from the first account. Now, during this time, he's on medication, using a walker, because he got shot in the leg. He complained of pain, but he told officers would be no problem going to talk to them So he was permitted to prop his leg up and stop for water going to the restroom and all that kind of shit here It has lasted about two hours the interview They wanted to ask him that they wanted him to do a polygraph examination Would you just do that and he said yeah, but can we do it a different day

because I'm in a lot of pain, I've been sitting here for two hours, can we come in and, you know, my leg hurts basically. So I said, yeah, yeah, we'll do it in a few days then, no worries. It's at this point that the fraker, he is the cop who showed up first, he starts being a little suspicious.

Well, nosy now, huh? Yeah, he said, at the time when I found him in the shot in his own kitchen floor, he said that, he said at the time when I found him in the shot in his own kitchen floor He said that he said he is a little thing that didn't seem like a big deal at the time But now looking back he said he was overacting Oh, he said he was thrashing about wildly as if delirious from grief and his wounds Two men had to pin his arms to the floor were while a paramedic worked on him and when they let go he continued to writhe but never tried to get up.

Yeah, that's weird. That's weird. He said he was thrashing about but it was like a little bantam rooster wanting to be held back from a fight. I've never seen that before. I don't know what that means. I've never been in a cockfight. I haven't been live in a cockfight so I'm not sure what that means but I'm sure it's

not good He said another thing that he said Jim's voice was very weak He said that didn't seem unusual at the time But then when the medical report came in that he wasn't shot that much he wasn't that injured Shot that much he said the the the abdomen was a flesh wound. He said a bullet in your leg Does it make you lose your voice. Oh Was that what what is he doing? He's like that's weird He said I got shot. He's like I'm shot. Yeah, I'm weak. I'm weak

So at that point he called the Missouri Highway Patrol Criminal division and asked for help and the guy the sergeant there who got the call said I was wondering when you were gonna call this So they said piece by piece the evidence came in and it became more apparent that what we first assumed was wrong a lab or the lab report Discovered a crucial piece of evidence in the pocket of James schnick's clothes and that is a 22 caliber they found close and that is a 22 caliber. They found evidence that he had dealt with the pistol. They don't say what it is. We don't know if it's a round or something,

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You can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. The gun was in Kirk's wrong hand and of course, basically the father was 30 feet off the road so someone would have had to drag his 200 and bastard yeah 75 pound carcass 20 30 feet off the road yeah now October 5th 1987 the funerals all take place Jim's too fucked up to go to the funerals obviously he's too too injured here. This is polygraph time. So He is told of certain physical evidence that was inconsistent with his initial account and that they don't believe him

So then he gives two completely different accounts that are different from each other and different from his first accounts in one version He claimed to have been abducted by Kirk and Steve In one version, he claimed to have been abducted by Kirk and Steve. Oh, okay. Now it's getting crazy. In the next account, he claimed that Kirk kidnapped him. He was kidnapped by a 90 pound child. So he takes the, they're sitting him down for the polygraph.

He's in a wheelchair complaining of pain, but he agrees to take the polygraph here. They explained the polygraph test telling him that it could be terminated at any time and he's free to leave whenever he wants. He read aloud a form consenting to the polygraph, waving his Miranda rights, signed the form. Then as they're starting to attach the shit to him for the polygraph, he says, Don, I think we better stop. I don't think I want to take the test. I'm just so scared. I don't want to do it. So this cop talks to the other cop who'd been monitoring this interview

and they agreed that they don't believe his stories at all. No? So he comes back and they say, look, you got inconsistencies in your earlier stories. We don't think you're being truthful. If you want us to believe anything you fucking said, you better hook up to the machine. So he said, let me tell you a different version

of what happened. Version number four or five now. I'm not sure. And they said, well, that sounds pretty goddamn incredible. And he said, okay, here's what really happened. And then told the completely different version of it. At that point, they're starting to look at each other and go, do we just put the cuffs on him now? What the fuck did he do? Yeah. Apparently at that point, they said, we think you did all of this

and started to start going through it with him and he would confirm the statements as they would do it. Yep, yep. Then he started to recount to them how he killed all seven of them. Oh my God. Yep, he killed everybody. Why?

They said, he told us he did it. He set it up to make people think his nephew did it. That's fucked up, man. But why? They said, once we had the statement from him, there was no sense in putting him on the machine, on the lie detector. So he repeated it again, then gave a final statement on videotape after being merandized again.

And throughout the time, access to water, bathroom, allowed to take his medication. This is how they think it really happened. They think that Kirk went to the schnick house at about 4 a.m. armed with the 22, just because he had it on him, because he had it on him around the farm. There was a struggle.

Or they think that Steven came over there armed with the 22 because they have had a beef. Okay. We'll talk about that. Or he came over to help with something or who the fuck knows why they don't know why, but there was a struggle. He killed Buckner Steven and dumped him at the cemetery, then continued on to the Buckner house and killed the whole family. Kirk was the only one dressed probably doing chores and police say now that he might have tried died trying to save his family He said he probably tried to protect his family. He took care of those children. He loved his brothers

They presume that Julie schnick is the last one to die and he didn't kill his own kids either He left his two kids alive Jamie Jamie and Mindy were alive. So he said he killed Steve Buckner at his house, then went to the Buckner house where he killed Jan Buckner, then all four of the sons then returned home with Kirk's corpse in the car. Yeah. And killed his wife and he said, they said, well, why why did you what was your big beef with Steve? What happened? They said well when Steve and Julie were kids Steve raped her

So we killed him because of an array and his four children him and anything that sprung forth from his loins and Oh him and anything that sprung forth from his loins. Yeah And that created marital problems for both families and he was mad that Steve neglected his four sons So he said I'll just kill them all instead. So then why kill your own wife? That's that's the thing man Why did well that's where the money comes in that she has a fifty thousand dollar insurance policy She's the only one has one one too. Now the Webster County Sheriff Eugene Fraker said publicly quote the Buckner boy is innocent of everything he had no part in this. He had nothing to do with it. So the motive is the thing

that they can't figure out. All they can figure out is there's a fucking bad blood and there's a $50,000 insurance policy on Julie's life. The cop said, love's a funny thing. I don't know if we'll ever know exactly what happened. They said he didn't really explain it, why it happened. He only explained that it happened. The AVEN said, I don't know if it was a long range plan or what. There is the wills and insurance to consider. There are several motives, but I don't want to comment on them in detail.

Yeah, because what if he did this like the beltway killer who just killed all these people just to kill his ex-wife? That's what I mean. In this particular instance, his actual wife. His actual wife, so I'll kill all these kids till we don't know. What the fuck? They said the most tragic thing would be if we didn't clear Kirk Buckner's name.

Yeah. So in court, Jimmy, he shows up holy fuck wearing overalls in court. No. He had, dude, I'll post it on social media. You absolutely wanna see this. It is our second time of someone knowingly that we know wore overalls in court,

but he shows up in court in fucking overalls and a white t-shirt. It's not a good look for court. That's a man that is counting on you to set him free so he can get back to work. Yeah, I got stuff to do this afternoon, so I figure if I could leave. He's up for the death penalty, by the way.

And the prosecutor said, if there ever were a death penalty case, I would think this would be the one. This is it, man. He killed fucking four kids, for Christ's sake. Monster, killed a two-year-old. They said, in a for Christ's sake. Monster killed a two year old. They said in a little town like this, everyone's a relative,

everybody was kind of relieved to find out the boy didn't do it. Nobody really wanted to find out about Mr. Schnick because he had a lot of friends too. Nobody wanted their friend to be the one responsible for it. They say though they think it's most important that the boy who was killed not be branded a killer. Please don't do that, they keep saying in the paper, please. Please. We're sorry

There's an article from the st. Louis Post dispatch here That says the freshman and junior varsity football teams of Marshfield High School were playing a road game at Bolivar Missouri Monday night when word spread that police had mistakenly blamed Kirk for killing his family The students relayed their feelings. The principal said, most of them said, basically we told you we didn't do it. A lot of the kids were like, what the fuck? The principal said, my own gut feeling about it

is the students never really did believe Kirk did it. One neighbor said that she never believed Kirk murdered six people and got killed. She said that she never believed Kirk murdered six people and got killed. She said that never ever. She said, I thought I'd feel a lot better about this knowing that he didn't do it, but I really don't. So it's bad enough the whole thing happened, but Kirk won't be blamed for it. That's good. It's just awful to think what Kirk went through before he died. Yeah, no shit. Now, this is their next door neighbor to the Buckner family. She says she didn't believe it and never would believe that he did it.

She said, I knew his whole family. I knew how they were when they were together. There was no way he was capable of this at all. So they said they felt some relief when a Missouri Highway Patrol officer came to question her a few days after the killings. And the investigation implicated Jim Schnick instead. And she said said I was so relieved that somebody was checking into this and not just forgetting it and just saying

well the killer's dead fuck it that's what happens. Now his best friend Kirk's best friend BJ Lawson said he hopes that Kirk's name is finally cleared now he said they just knew he couldn't do nothing like that. He said because he never lost his temper the maddest he ever got he'd say a couple cuss words and that's it. He said everybody knows he didn't do it but people who didn't know him they probably thought he was some kind of weirdo. He was an all-around nice guy. He'd do anything for just about anybody. Nice guy. So trial comes up here for Jim. Four of the murder counts are dismissed by the state

before the trial with no explanation. So the charges are Julie, Kirk, and the two-year-old. Those are who he's charged with killing. That's it. Which makes- Can't prove the others or what? They're all in the same, do you think someone different killed the other kids

in the bed and then somebody else killed the kids in the living? It's a crazy thing. I don't know why that is, but that's how it goes. Now, the testimony here, you get the wife of the deputy who went to visit him in the hospital and question him. She testifies. She's way too involved in all this shit. I don't want know, this is crazy. They said, do you consider yourself to be a friend of James Schnick? And she said, yes. So there was that.

Also firefighters here saying that Schnick was one of their best volunteers. They said, Schnick got most of the donated items sold at an auction last year to benefit firefighters. Oh, well let's just let him go then. He bought everything? Because he's such a good guy. He collected the items.

He got the donated items. Oh, he went and brought them to sell them. Yeah, yeah, so I mean he's a, so he did his job. Yeah, so what are we doing here? Let's let him go. John Arthur Sparkman of Republic, that's a town, said that Schnick lived with his family at one time

Sparkeman's son and schnick worked cattle and hogs together He said Jim was a good worker. I never had any questions when I loaned him my trucks and machinery Great he killed fucking four kids. What are we talking about? Turn the shitty borrowed James, but Jesus Christ you lend this guy a weed whacker. It's coming back full of Blockbuster late fees James. No, man. He's a good guy He's coming back with the oil mixed properly and everything. It's filled up gas and oil mix He said with that they said that he wasn't enough They asked this one guy and he said he wasn't an affair

aware of an affair that schnick had because they said were you aware of it and they said would dad have changed your Opinion of him as a father if you knew about it and the guy said yes, it would have What difference that makes but yeah Verdict comes in here less than two hours of deliberation Not much. He's found guilty of all three counts of murder so now we go to sentencing four murders or three seven murders and yes four others yeah three so they get a psychologist here in the sentencing stage to testify that Jim schnick is unlikely to do this again well yeah

because he killed everybody he's related to. What the fuck else is he gonna shoot? Nobody left. So they said they did this psychologist did a battery of psychological tests on Schnick that showed he suffered from organic brain damage that hampered his verbal reasoning, comprehension and memory, they said.

The records show that Schnick suffered from traumatic head injuries at some points in his life here. Which, I don't know, if that's just farm work or what, you get kicked in the head by an animal every once in a while, I don't know. So Foster, that's the guy who did this all, the doctor who's chief of psychology at the Federal Medicine Center in Rochester, Minnesota,

interviewed him for hours, interviewed all his friends and everything like that. He says that Schnick denies and represses the killings. He didn't do it, he doesn't know what you're talking about now. He doesn't get it. He represses. Yep, he describes, I call it lying is what that is. I call it lying.

It's a different name. It's not a psychological medical term, but I think it works lying Yeah, he described schnick as a very compulsive person who likes an orderly life has strong-held moral values It's why he cheats on his wife and shoots his fucking shoots a two-year-old whole family Yeah, very high moral standards here and helps others He said in mr schnick's case the acts of that night were so far removed from his life, his earlier life,

that he repressed the axe. He was repulsed by the axe, as was I. Well, I would hope you would be. They said. Nobody I know reveled in it. No, he then said, it's unlikely that Jim will display this behavior again, and you know, he won't kill seven people again so you know that's

all he said he had the conditions he had schnick's family background he said disagreements with his brother-in-law all of this perfect storm of shit probably wouldn't ever happen again so you know he's fine probably you know i can't i'm not a not a genie here but you know i can look into my crystal ball and figure it out. What do I look like here? So in describing his past the psychologist said that Schnick's father and brother weren't loving and supportive. Oh so kill everybody that makes sense. Schnick who had learning problems since birth and but a higher than average mechanical aptitude and ability sought approval by hard work and high moral values. He said that Schnick left home as a teenager because of a strict father, and he also describes him as a hard worker who frequently helped others, including strangers.

One boyhood friend with whom Schnick had double dated recalled times when Schnick helped stranded motorists. Oh, well, let's just put him back out on the street. He helped change a tire, jumped a car. Wow, he also said that schnick wouldn't fight back in disagreements but would go elsewhere and seek attention and approval through aiding others. That's what he said.

Rather than fight, he'll go off and try to help people and make himself feel better. Most people have outlets to express their anger, but schnick felt cornered by pressure and didn't have any way to cope with it the psychologist said. He also goes on and this is kind of true. Unlike other mass killers who this guy's examined he said this guy has no background of abuse or crimes. He's not a criminal he has no back. So that makes him much more dangerous. Much more, because it's, why? There's not even a predictor.

It's just out of nowhere he did this. He said, I will have to say something that's unusual with Mr. Schnick is he doesn't have the antisocial behavior of many serial killers. The defense attorney here has said that he has the capacity to lead a productive life in prison. She believes that in the work ethic philosophy and relationships that schnick would make a good role model for other prisoners because they love people who kill babies.

That's still who doesn't look up to that guy. You know what I mean? Well, he might probably has the most bodies of anyone in there. So maybe they will look up to him in prison. Who knows? Certainly hold him on a pedestal Wow They said I don't know if they'll be raping him atop that pedestal, but something will be going on The they said that the doctor said my concern would be his naivete even despite the acts for which he's been accused He's still naive in many ways

now closing arguments here the prosecutor said that Alfred and Jean Buckner, they no longer have their entire family, said these families have suffered losses that can't be compensated for, losses they'll have to live with for the rest of their lives. They said they won't have any holiday family, nothing. Alfred and Jean Buckner will never be familiar with the idea of having their daughter or son walk up to them and hug them. They'll never know the satisfaction of their daughter coming up and saying, I love you, or their son saying, I love you.

The victims had both hopes and dreams. Anyone who would kill an infant under these circumstances deserves the most serious punishment provided by law. They said that his helpfulness, that's all good and dandy and his tire changing and everything, but they said that agony suffered by the survivors can't overcome a hundred lifetimes of good deeds. Yeah, I don't care how many tires you change, you're not doing this. Now, his lawyer argued for life in prison saying the murders represent a terrible loss to the area, but said, but Alfred and Jean Buckner have two grandchildren left.

He didn't kill all of them. The children have a father left and those children love their father. She said she, uh, that vindictive punishment wouldn't be appropriate. She said, there's no mercy in this courtroom for James schnick. There's no mercy in this courtroom because life in prison for James Schnick will be extremely hard. They said, maybe he'll be a role model, put him in prison. He said that I would ask you, then the prosecutor rebutted by saying, I would ask you what mercy

did he show Kirk Buckner? What mercy did he show Michael Buckner? What mercy did he show for his own wife? He's been portrayed as a man who loves kids. He should be portrayed as a man who killed four kids, including three who were sleeping in their beds. Eight men, four women on the jury. They decide, because the jury recommends to the judge and then the judge has final say

in Missouri back then. So they say they recommend death. The jury recommends death. The judge has final say though here. They said the judge will consider it and it'll come back in a couple of days. Now they come back, if he is sentenced to death, he'll be the 57th man on death row in Missouri State Penitentiary.

No one had been executed since 1965 in Missouri though. It's been a minute. This is 87. The judge says, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for you, sir. Got him. I don't know. Like I said, if there's a death penalty,

killing a sleeping two-year-old is pretty bad. That's pretty fucking bad. And don't worry. We got 20 years of people in line ahead of you, so just go sit down. So the defense attorney said, I was trying to prepare prepare for other things instead of the ultimate outcome so 1990 by the

way there's a fucking a big accident here with their family to Alina Aline schnick the driver of a car apparently ran a stop sign at the inner section of Missouri highways 13 and 215 and She was killed and other members of the killed Sharon schnick's children Katerina schnick 19 months old Jennifer schnick five years old Oh my god, Kim if he died Kim Kimberly duck or nine years old all killed in this accident. The Schnick family is just the worst. The Schnick family is getting wiped the fuck out. 1991, he appeals. He said he was deprived of his freedom

because he was in the hospital and thus Miranda was required. The law says no. You were a victim at the time you were in the hospital and just because you couldn't move because you were in the hospital doesn't mean you you couldn't move because you were in the hospital doesn't mean you were held. You could have told the cops to get the fuck out of your room

and they would have had to go, end of story. So, also jury selection. Okay, they asked the defense attorney, asked a juror or a potential juror during voir dire, do you think because they are law enforcement officers, they're entitled to more believability than others. This guy said not necessarily, but you know them and the job they've done and you believe them before you would a stranger because he knew one of the cops. The potential juror knew the rogue guy who went with his wife to the hospital. There's 1900 people

here. You're going to know somebody. That's the problem the Missouri Supreme Court based on that overturns the conviction reverses it then on May 1st 1992 Jim pleads guilty to the three counts of murder and is agreed to that he is sentenced to you sir may still fuck off three life sentences consecutive no chance for parole. You're going forever. And also part of the plea agreement is that he will never be prosecuted for the other four murders as well. In 2000 there's a book called Murder in the Heartland that comes out that has I guess

a bunch of different stories and this is one of them. The only way you can get it is $75 for a used paperback on Amazon. God Jesus! That's bonkers. Then in 2016, a book called No Justice, The Jim Schnick Story, an in-depth investigation reveals the innocence of a man sentenced to die for seven family,

family side, family side murders in webster county based on a true story someone wrote a book two hundred fifty seven page book that's only in like two libraries in arkansas cuz i tried to find it saying he's innocent in arkansas people are buying it holy shit may eleven two thousand twenty, so not even a year ago, at the South Central Correctional Center in Licking,

that's his town. Licking, Missouri? Licking, Missouri. Eugh, it's better than licking Arkansas, I guess. I don't wanna lick Arkansas. You don't know where Arkansas has been. James Schnick 73, pronounced dead. Oh, he beat the sentence.

He beat it, well he got life, so that was it. All of the dead family members, by the way, the murdered family members are buried at the Timber Ridge Cemetery in Marshfield. And there you go everybody, that's Elk Land. Holy shit. That's a fucked up story. Let me tell you something.

That's too bad is what that is. That's horrifying. Look, being a cynic and thinking beyond it all, I think he was killing her and had to make it look like it was anybody but him. Absolutely. He's gonna have that new woman move right in. Yeah, yeah.

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