Small Town Murder - #585 - Serial Killer's Secret Graveyard - Kingston Township, Pennsylvania

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

This week, in Kingston Township, Pennsylvania, what begins as a simple search for a missing criminal pharmacist, quickly turns into the discovery of a makeshift graveyard, in a man's yard, that may have up to 12 burned, bashed & buried bodies. The more investigation that happens, the more the layers begin to peel off, revealing a brutal serial killer & his accomplices! But will a homemade cemetery, in his own yard, be enough to convict??Along the way, we find out pierogis are best eaten, when thrown from a parade float, that the more people you have helping you murder, the more people there is to tell on you, and that if you're going to bury a dozen bodies, you might want to do it, away from your own home!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. This week in Kingston township, Pennsylvania, what begins as a simple search for a missing pharmacist turns into the discovery of a makeshift graveyard with as many as 12 bodies, many of them burned and smashed. But will it be enough to convict this suspected serial killer? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh yay indeed Jimmy, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. You've made a good decision

because this is a crazy episode. Let me tell you something, it's wild stuff here. Congratulations. Good decision making. Well, you know what? Why not? They're here, so let's congratulate them for being smart. You should do that like when someone sits you at a restaurant, they should go, congratulations, good choice, Well you know what? Why not? They're here so let's congratulate them for being smart.

You should do that like when someone sits you at a restaurant they should go, congratulations good choice and then hand you a menu. That's good. Before we get started definitely head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. That is where you will find all the tickets for the live shows. Everything is there especially for April 19th. It's our 420 virtual live show. Oh boy. And it's available for two weeks after that. You can buy it, you can watch it a hundred times. You can do whatever you want with it in that two weeks.

And it is gonna be just like a regular live show except anywhere in the world with internet you could be watching right from the comfort of your own home. So we're very excited about that. I have crazy smoking apparatus to scare the hell out of Jimmy, that's gonna be fun. And then also get your tickets for May 18th Chicago

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material. Yes. Anybody five dollars a month or above you are gonna get a just a giant back catalog of hundreds of episodes you've never heard before. Yeah. And new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder and you my friends. Yeah. Get it all. So this week which you're gonna get for crime and sports we're gonna talk about some fraternity hazing incidents. OK. Not really sports related, but a lot of the fraternity guys play sports. So you know what?

We're going to call it sports. We'll find somebody in there that was on a lacrosse team or something, I'm sure. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about the Karen Reed case. That is the Boston woman who is accused, again, going through her second trial of killing her cop boyfriend. And it is just a wild trial.

And I'm gonna get you, we're gonna get you all caught up to speed before the retrial happens here this month. So that's gonna be a lot of fun. She's an interesting character. There's about 100 interesting characters in that entire thing. All those cops are. Welcome to Boston.

Wow, it's wild stuff. So that's patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well Which is this one Jimmy will mispronounce your name horribly. So that said disclaimer time. This is a comedy show everybody So I'm telling you now there's gonna be jokes and people are gonna die. That's how this works The show trust us one thing it is all true everything here There's nothing's embellished for comedic effect or anything like that. None of that stuff happens here.

Now, you might say, how do you mix murder and comedy? Very easily, you don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But. But we're not scumbags. See how that works?

It works out pretty good here. Now, if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, you might not like the show. But I'm telling you there's plenty of jokes to be made around the murder. Especially, I think I can get away with this. That's a dumb thought. That's a terrible thought. So all that kind of thing. Anyway for the rest of you though, you want to hear a great story and a great show we have coming up for you. I think it's time to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say, everybody?

And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. All right, let's go on a trip, everybody. Let's do this. We are going to Pennsylvania this week. We're going to Kingston Township, Pennsylvania. We've been to Kingston beforeship Pennsylvania this is in Kingston before in Rhode Island which this town is named after so there you go it all connects

I'm telling you man when I saw that I was like oh my god it all connects look at that this is in northeastern Pennsylvania it's about a half hour outside of Scranton okay so this is a kind of back in the mountains this isn't Philly this isn't Pittsburgh. Not necessarily. That's rural. What would you call that? Rural. Is it industrial?

Rural, I would call this. Yeah, it is. I mean Scranton's got some old industrial stuff, but this is, they call this Back Mountain. That's the name of this area. Is that right? Back Mountain. So it is different kind of place than that, buddy.

Let me tell you something. Those are two bad words to put together. Back mountain, that sounds scary. Definitely you hear the banjos, and you're like, this is not good, back mountain. And local people, when they hear back mountain, that's like Colorado people saying western slope. It's not good people over there.

It's frightening. We'll find out here. It's about 30 minutes to Scranton, about two hours and 15 minutes to Philadelphia, and about two hours and 15 minutes to Philadelphia and about two hours and 25 minutes To Washington Borough, which was our last episode in Pennsylvania, which was the Moronic murders Which was one of the craziest it's the Moronic murders because it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life These people were nuts. This is in Luzerne County Luzerne County like the dairy product with a Z. Oh Luz Er any

Not a dairy product like that. I think that's Not sure Safeway store brand is Lucerne. There you go, but that's with a C I think different the motto here is the gateway to the back mountain So they're proud of mountain. That's the motto of the town. So they're proud of it. You want to get to the taint to the bed. It's really the team that leads you to the promised land here. So a little bit of history here. Kingston township was one of the original townships formed by the Susquehanna land company of Connecticut in 1790. This is old. Yeah.

The township is named after Kingston, Rhode Island, um Island and was originally called King's Town like King's Town They just dropped the W The township was downsized later when whole regions were stripped away to form new municipalities So used to be a lot bigger place some reviews of this town. Here's four stars in the largest part Kingston Township is a great place to grow up and settle down. Those in between, however, may find it to be too slow paced and quiet and seek the excitement of distance. Everybody says nice place to either grow up or retire. That's kind of the way everybody keeps talking about. Yeah, it's the beginning or the end, not the middle.

Yeah, if you're 26 and out looking for like mates This isn't the place you want to be probably yeah Four stars here Sonoco gas station is right down the road from me well brag brag much as all Jesus Are you cool? those suckers with the scorpions in them and On a bag of twisters, But what else are you gonna do? There's a Sunoco like an eighth of a mile from my house.

I never thought to brag about it. It was just rebuilt and is up to date. Wow, this is just a review for Sunoco. I visit there almost every day because they carry every essential needed. That's the whole review. That one probably does because it's probably in a rural area. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're probably smart to do that.

Oh, cat food and shit. Yeah, oh yeah, cereal and all that kind of shit. Typers, everything. Yeah, that's it. Three stars here. There are not many opportunities here. The people who live here are all very wealthy, but there's not a lot of options

for the up and coming generations. I didn't really get the wealthy thing here. Wealthy. I didn't really get that. There's the SinoCo, man. Where you get your essentials. I don't really get the wealthy thing here. I didn't really get that. There's the Sunoco man. Where you get your essentials. I don't know about... I mean I'm sure there are some wealthy people that own large swaths of land and shit but that's population... oof population 7,076 people here. Okay. Pretty small. Way more females than males. 52.7% women here. So that's way above the ad-a-whack. It's usually like 50.1.

Median age is higher than it is in the rest of the country. It's about 48 here, which is 10 years higher than the rest of the land here. About 56% married. Very few people divorced. Very few people single with children. Yeah, I don't know what it is. You just get your plot of land and you're gonna stay here

and that's that, you're gonna stay married even if you hate each other. So race of this town, 96.8% white, 1.1% black, 1.3% Asian, 0.5% Hispanic. The unemployment rate here is skyrocketing here compared to the rest of the country. It's 9.5% Hispanic. The unemployment rate here is skyrocketing here, compared to the rest of the country. It's 9.6%. What's going on?

Which is really high for a spot. I think it's just rural. I mean, I think that's why they're so jacked about the Senoko. Yeah, Senoko can only hire so many people. I mean, there's one guy standing there behind the counter. That's all they got here. Median household income here is $75,285 a year,

which is slightly above the national average, but I wouldn't say it's all rich people here. That's not what I would say. Cost of living here, 100 being regular average, here it's 80.6. So pretty low compared to the rest of the country. The average money too, that's great. And the housing cost is low.

Median home cost here, $181,000. That'll make you feel like you're rich. So that's what I mean, you'd feel rich if you're, yeah, it's pretty good. So maybe everybody that's listening right now really wants to move here. Just in case you do, we have for you the Kingston Township, Pennsylvania real estate report.

Average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,030 a month, which is way lower, a couple hundred under the national average. Here's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,125-square-foot house. Little starter house. This is a small house 1100 square feet. It's on point three six acres So not a huge lot, but not an acre not crammed in though feel big. Yeah, so I mean you're not crammed in you got a yard It doesn't look good. The roof has Growth on it, which is never a good sign. It's like moss or like trees on it which is never a good sign. It's like moss or like trees. You know nothing with us with like a like a trunk but definitely some foliage up there that probably shouldn't

be I don't I don't think that's a good sign here. Something is taking root up there and that's weird. Yeah there are rooms that have no floor like it's just all torn up the the floor is a really weird like a flagstone that looks like it should be like an outside path. It's a strange house, really weird house. 119,000 bucks though, so. It's a bit high. It seems like it, I guess, but yeah, you can probably do some stuff to it, I guess.

Here's a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2420 square feet. So that's not bad, you got a couple of kids, spread out, it's a good-sized house. 0.47 acres, so almost a half acre, good size plot. This house is just seventies. The outside of it is like wood. The inside of it is an insane seventies wood. The kitchen has definitely not been touched since 1983.

It's got like that old fridge in it where you're like, oh man, that fridge is old as shit. It's on the microwave. Yeah, it's, it does. It's got like that old fridge in it where you're like, oh man, that fridge is old as shit. It's got knobs on the microwave. Yeah, it does. It's weird. Backyard's nice, it's okay, but it is $335,000 and it just had a price cut of $15,000. Oh, this is going to go down further before it sells. I was going to say, I think this thing, I think you could wait on this thing or at least lowball these people. Here's a five bedroom, six bath, T-Ball for each and every B-Hall. Surplus of those T-Balls. 11,775 square feet.

I don't, I can't even. I can't even picture what that is. I don't even know what that is. It's like four big houses is what that is. That's a four good size houses. On 11.92 acres. I'm in love. It's just humongous.

I don't even know, you wouldn't get lost in this house. It looks like a hotel. There's a library in it. And what I mean is, I don't mean a room with some shelves. I mean a hallway that you're walking down that's huge with like aisles on each side of book, like a fucking library. The dewy decimal system is in play. It looks like a borders in this place It's the weirdest like a borders from the 90s. It's really cool

1,999,000 bucks for that though, which Seems a little high I would say I do like it and I still am in love with it I just put ahead and can we Can we bring it down a notch on the price possibly? Things to do here. Well, there's the Edwardsville Perogi Festival. I've been wondering when that was. I've been looking, it's on my calendar, but I couldn't find what date to put it on. This is the 11th annual, and if you don't know what a perogi is, it is a Polish ravioli,

would be the best way to describe it. It's good. Perogies are good, they're fine. I mean, it's a Polish ravioli. How bad could it be? They put sausage and shit describe it. It's fine. It's good. Pierogies are good. They're fine. I mean, it's a Polish ravioli. How bad could it be? They put sausage and shit in it. It's good. Noodles and meat.

Let's go. That's what I mean. It's going to be decent. So they say it's the biggest and best food festival to start your summer. Over 80 vendors expected, which seems like too many pierogies. What are you selling? I don't know.

They say they have live entertainment all weekend, but they're not listing what it is. So that could be anything. Pony rides. That's nice for the kids, a petting zoo. A pierogi parade got me. I don't know. Do we dress up like pierogies?

Do we carry pots full of pierogies as we walk down the street and pelt people with them? Double yellow. Do we toss pierogies out to the children as we ride by on a float? What are we doing here? And a pierogi cook-off as well. Who can cook the pierogies the fastest? Whose water boils the hardest? Is it best tasting or fastest?

Who knows? Biggest? I don't know, that's all the information we have on the Pierogi Festival, which really sucks because I want so much more information about that. I really want to know. And then is this is wild here. It's called American soldier a tribute to Toby Keith Bringing the spirit and music of Toby Keith to life capturing his essence and entertain Capturing his essence you can just pour a Bud Light on someone's head you've captured his essence on a Mexican there you go

Yeah, area. That's the essence with captivating performance that brings his music and energy to life apparently This the guy playing it is a guy named Duane Terry Yeah, and I think Toby Keith well he played with Toby for a number of years. I think he was in his band. He gives his shit. Yeah This is the best part. This is the most authentic and nationally recognized tribute to Toby Keith in the US Oh, oh my god all the thousands of tributes to Toby Keith that we put on on a yearly basis This is the best one apparently. I don't know. I couldn't be turned off harder, man one apparently I don't know I couldn't be turned off harder because I mean usually on what is it August 14th Toby Keith day that we all know of or whatever

the fuck I don't know there's a lot of them most authentic I don't know what the fuck that's supposed to I don't know it says here the most they have other bands too from 245 to 330 they have have the Sweet Biscuit Band that plays 90s and classic rock. Then you have Alexis Bradford, who is the 2022 Sare Talent Show winner. Oh! From Maynesburg, Pennsylvania.

That's her credit. I think that's her prize for winning that, as you get to perform from 345 to 430 at the Toby Keith Tribute Show. You get to open from 345 to 430 at the Toby Keith tribute show. You get to open for a guy that knew Toby Keith. How about that? 445 to 530, Jacob Gilpin, a 2024 winner of Maple Festival's vocal talent, and he's the best country's music guy in Vermont, I assume that is. Let me tell you about a guy that once knew Toby King.

Yeah. Ha ha ha. And then Chris Eckert, who- Oh yeah, yeah. You know who this is? That's a real country singer, right? Chris Eckert? It says country, it says Torch Singer

to Arson Investigator to One Man Band. Oh, no. No, you don't know who that is. He's got like a harmonica around his neck and he's got cymbals on his knees You know, I mean, it's got like a fucking accordion strapped to his chest just in case he needs This is my favorite at the bottom of their web page it says final comments all sales are final, no refunds. You watch this shit and you want a refund, tough shit. And the pre-sale tickets are $35 for the track seats, $30 for the bleachers. That's the cheapest, $30 to see this. This is trash.

Wow. That said, crime rate, but we are interested in this story here. Property crime is less than half the national average in this town, so pretty safe. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third under the national average.

So this is great. It seems like a real nice place where nothing crazy happens. And we are gonna talk about a shit. Except for Toby Keith's friend. Except for Toby Keith's friend and a shit load of murder that we have to talk about. Here we go. Wow, we got a lot. Okay, let's do this.

Let's jump in and talk about a guy named Michael Jason Krakowski Jr. K-E-R-K-O-W-S-K-I. So Michael Jason Krakowski. Everybody's, a lot of people's names in this have ski on the end of it and there's a pierogi festival. I feel like this is a highly Polish area. It has to be.

So now Michael has a wife named Kim and he's a licensed pharmacist. Yeah. Okay. Good money. And he's doing great. He had his own, his own pharmacy, had a nice nice home a wife and two children all before he was 35 So I mean unbelievable dude life set you're set just enjoy Cruise control count those fucking pills and enjoy. Yeah, what else do you money bud? You're doing great?

Yeah, you're doing to writ. This is great. Here is this this is Late 90s is when he opens the pharmacy. We'll go through the years here and we'll go through his life a little bit, but that's how he ends up. He's known as a devoted father, a dedicated son and a businessman held in high esteem by the community. Couldn't be better.

So obviously he's gonna be on our show. Yeah. Yeah, clearly. So his wife and others said he was very upstanding and and everything like that. A woman who worked with him at a pharmacy earlier for you know, in the 80s said he was wonderful. He was kind. He was the kind of kid anyone would want to take home with them. Meaning when he was like a teenager. Yeah. Nice kid, which sounds really creepy. It does.

That sounds like something that, like a compliment that Puff Daddy would give us, up and coming singer. A lot of talent, type of guy you'd want to take home with you for a while. Have him live in your house when he's 12 for some reason. Make him do bad things for you. Yeah, Jesus Christ. So when he was about 16

He began working at a pharmacy as a pharmacy technician The woman who worked with him said his family was not well-to-do. They were middle-class He had to work for the things he wanted. I'm sure for part of his schooling as well So when he worked at this pharmacy, that's where he met his future wife Kim who worked at the pharmacy in high school So that's they ended up hooking up there Michael graduated from Lake Lehman High School in 1983 and went to Temple University in Philly So that's a good very good school. Yeah so now Kim

The girl he met that he liked, when they were both teenagers, she ended up, they didn't stay together. He went to college, she did her thing. She got married and had a son with somebody else and then got divorced. So that became, made her available again. Michael graduated from Temple in 1988 and was a licensed pharmacist in Pennsylvania

on August 16th, 1988. He worked at the Trucksville Pharmacy. Trucksville is nearby, by the way, in Trucksville and later at the CVS Pharmacy in Dallas, Pennsylvania. Is that right? There's a Dallas right around here too. Is that why the Eagles hate the Cowboys? Very confusing. I think it's from there. So you sons of bitches You fucking hick bastards coming from the back mountain So in 1989 he met up with Kim again because she came to the CVS in Dallas just to fill out a prescription I have a prescription filled she didn't even really know he worked there and he was like, I know you you're the chick from the pharmacy And she was like, yeah, you're the dude from the pharmacy and she was like hey You're the dude from the pharmacy and there you go so by 1992 they're engaged

Wow yeah, and in November of 92 they signed a contract to build a $150,000 home which was a good good amount of money back then sure real good at 647 Pritchard Road in Hunlock Creek They got married on April 9th real good at 647 Pritchard Road in Hunlock Creek. They got married on April 9th, 1994, and then they had a son named Tyler on September 25th, 1996. They'll have another son named Connor on May 6th, 1999. So he is killing it. Just having a great life.

I mean, if this is what you want, if you wanna settle down, have a nice business, and a nice family. I mean, if this is what you want, if you want to settle down, have a nice business and a nice family. Sure, yeah. I mean, it sounds like, you know, the old timey American dream, quote unquote, seems like this would be it, right? And it's like a nice fortuitous, serendipitous meeting too, where she's just there to get her cream.

He didn't go stalking her or anything. Yeah, she just needed to get rid of her chlamydia and then he happened to be there. He cleared up her yeasty and then. He was like, listen, now I know. I know she's up to date, you know what I mean? She's. She's got all her shots. She's had a couple of things.

So they lived a comfortable but average lifestyle. They didn't, they weren't lavish. They didn't spend a lot of money or anything like that, and maybe that's saving up for later or college funds or I don't know what they're doing. Just living careful. Yeah, a friend of theirs said, they never took vacations, they didn't drive expensive cars, they had a nice upper middle class home, but they didn't live an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch.

So that's just the way it is. Now in March 1999, Michael and Kim enter into a franchise agreement with the medicine shop, and that's PPE, like an old timey, the medicine shopy pharmacy. That's interesting. On State Route 29 in Eaton Township, which is in Wyoming County, Pennsylvania.

There's a Dallas, there's a Wyoming County, the whole thing's too much. Oh, Kingston, god damn it. It's all just too much, man. Everything's named after somewhere else. It's just too much. Why are we in Pennsylvania? None of us like it here.

I was so confused in the beginning of putting this all together, I'm like, wait, he was in Dallas? Fuck, and then I was like, no, this Dallas, because I put on my notes, moved to Texas, and then I'm like, no, this Dallas, because I put on my notes, moved to Texas, and then I'm like, no he didn't. Apparently he's in Pennsylvania, scratch that. This is a very confusing episode to put together.

San Francisco, PA. It really started with that. Las Vegas, he's in Las Vegas, Pennsylvania, I don't understand it. So now Kim is part owner of this business, but she has no involvement with day-to-day operations, she's not a pharmacist. Brilliant.

Yeah, it's just those two are on it because they're married. Apparently, though, they start to have some problems here, as we'll talk about in 2001, 2000, 2001. Basically, right after, right when he signs this lease to have his own little pharmacy, that's when things start to go off the rails for him. Yeah. Apparently, there's when things start to go off the rails for him.

Yeah. Apparently, there's a quote from one of their friends that said a year prior to their separation, he would not even allow her in the medicine shop. Wasn't even allowed in the store. The few times she tried to enter, he chased her out. He did not want her involved. He wanted to run everything on his own. Get out.

But I need some. No, go! I'm just here for toothpaste. Shut up, go. I'll bring it home. Get out. I'll bring it later. So yeah, the thing is, this whole business and the reason he went from being this open, honest, normal guy to being sort of weird and closed off is because he's doing some shit that is not above board in this pharmacy. He is selling all sorts of painkillers to people. He's one of these guys. He's one of the... And this is, I mean, Oxycontin didn't come out till the mid 90s and he is selling it in 99 like it's fucking candy. Yeah. He's allowing people to doctor shop there. Oh, absolutely. No, he's doctor shit. He's just giving he's writing he's giving out drugs

He's just selling people drugs. That's fucking crazy. So it's loracet and Oxycontin are the big ones that he's doing Yeah, your painkillers and opiates and I don't know if loracet's an opiate, but I assume it is it is Oxycontin I know so They didn't he's also got a mistress on the side So you don't want your wife coming in when you got strange trim that might be walking through there every once in a while. I gotta-

I sell drugs and getting pussy, get out. Yeah, as I say, I got a drug deal lined up, I got my side fucking piece coming over, I got a lot going on here, I'll bring the toothpaste home. All right. So apparently everybody says it's just greed that he's, why he's doing this, which is very weird because they still don't live a lavish lifestyle.

It's not like he's, you know, he bought a fucking Bentley or he, you know, like bought himself a Porsche and he's going to Atlantic City on the weekends and none of that's going on. He's still. But it might feel good to not have that opulent lifestyle, but like, it's, I'm capable of having it. That would be kind of cool.

I guess yeah It's just so weird to have an upper middle-class Lifestyle and then do a bunch of illegal shit to make more money to still live the same lifestyle It doesn't make any sense. I don't I don't understand what the point of that is So he would fill out he filled false prescriptions that he knew were false For tens of thousands of pills that that's what police ended up documenting. So who knows what he actually did? Yeah. They they also suspect he filled untold thousands of others that they just

couldn't track. So they estimate that his crime netted him more than three million dollars in sales of these drugs. Netted him. Not gross net. That's after pills paid for. So I guess he began selling these drugs to people as early as November 99, which is like two months after he got his own pharmacy, which means he's always wanted to do this and he finally could now. He had the dream. Like it would take you a while to figure that out if you were going to just start doing

it. Yeah, I mean, he probably, working for someone else, was like, I could fucking make so much money if I had my own shit going on and they didn't have so much paperwork tracking this. Yeah, he worked for CBS, which I'm sure is, you know, multi- Shrewd. It's a conglomerate. Yeah, I'm sure they keep track of shit there. So court records show that he began this

as early as November 99, like I said. A woman named Shirley Richter entered the pharmacy to fill a prescription for Lorcet, and her address was not listed in court records. They say later, she told the authorities she obtained thousands of Lorcet pills from Michael all the way up until September of 2000 so he was just filling her shit He filled the prescriptions under the guise that they were refills of an original legitimate prescription that she once obtained

That's why how he did it So he used the same scheme with other people who would travel to his store from all around. People would drive for hours to come here because. Yeah, because he's doing it. You're selling drugs. That's what people do. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing at him. And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.

Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing at him. And the suspect... He has been identified as Luigi Nicolass Mangione. ...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history.

I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. The investigation started in September of 2000 when a person arrested for using a forged prescription said, well, I know a guy who's selling pills out of a pharmacy.

And that was that. So once somebody rats on him. So an undercover state trooper made several buys from Michael in September and October of 2000. They continued to investigate the case for several months, interviewing people who purchased drugs from him. So they had a giant, I mean they tracked thousands of tens of thousands of pills.

On April 20th, 2001, they raided his pharmacy, seizing thousands of pills of thousands of pills. On April 20th 2001 they raided his pharmacy seizing thousands of pills and records detailing transactions and all sorts of investigations start now. This is a big deal. So yeah they estimate he made between the illegal drugs and the insurance fraud about three million bucks he cleared from all this. They say that the prosecutor says they believe his sole intent in buying the pharmacy was to sell drugs illegally. There it is, yeah. That's the only reason he was doing it.

They said that if he worked for CVS, too easy to catch. This prosecutor said, I think his ambition was to get there, do this for several years, make big money, then quit. He figured in a small town like Tuckhannock, he could get away with it. He was wrong. I Would think you'd be have a much better chance of getting away getting away with it in a big city Well, I got news for you guys. He did it to the tune of three million dollars. He did. All right. He did fine He should have stopped. Yeah, I would honestly think in a big city

It'd be easier to get away with this because there's probably a hundred other people doing it So it might fall you're probably the only illegal pill pharmacy in the whole county, I would assume, otherwise, so you're kind of drawing attention to yourself here. So he's charged with three counts of distribution, well, many more counts, but he'll later plea to three counts of distribution of a controlled substance

by a practitioner, and he'll later plead guilty to insurance fraud and reckless endangerment in connection with a man who Overdosed and died on prescriptions. He'd supplied. Oh shit. Yeah It's a lot going on here People who knew him describe him as affable laid back down to earth One guy said I never knew Michael to go on any big trips or even talk about fancy stuff

or even be envious of people who had it. I don't have any idea why he got involved in something like that. I've been racking my brain, but it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he's, what do you do it for? The thrill? I don't get it, that's what I mean.

I don't understand what it is, except that I've led such a such a Just middle-of-the-road Fucking you know just Lifestyle that is not has no deviation from the norm and now I want to be a different person Yeah, I mean maybe is not even out is it I mean it's just coming out when he got busted I mean, it's 2001 it came out so

I don't understand it. It's makes no sense now his sister Maria is also a pharmacist and She said she was sick when she learned about all this. She said he was very outgoing and personal. It's so confusing I don't understand what happened apparently something was missing in his life, I guess. Yeah, he's also having an affair at the same time too. So he just wants to have another life where he's like a cool guy who has affairs and deals drugs and. I mean, yeah, he got his life together so early

and was always busy being whatever it is that you're supposed to be. You know what I mean? Imagine that you're supposed to be. I mean, imagine being, you know, imagine being so successful, so early that you're bored with it. Imagine that. It was like, this is boring. It's gotta be a gotta be on the other side of the law. Yeah. Just, you know, we did that when we were 16, you know, like got over it, but this guy never had it maybe. So, um, I guess he So I guess he befriended,

he ends up making a friend here, Michael does, or Krakowski here as we'll talk about, while he's awaiting trial, and this friend of his is gonna give him advice on his criminal case. This is not a lawyer by the way. Great. He met him in jail? He's a guy who just got out of federal prison for seven years We'll talk about him in a minute. Yeah, great. It's perfect. That's who you I mean, I guess he knows the legal system. He's out

That's how Laurie Valo said she's qualified to Represent herself by the way She said well I've been through so much court stuff between family courts because she's been divorced fucking three times And you know my other murder trial that I think I know court by now The ultimate Dunning-Kruger effect person right there like well, I went to court a couple times So I know everything there is to know about court. It's that it is. He's pulling that shit. Oh, yeah You've been in true crime since 2012, I don't know if you've been in criminal law since 2012. It's like, baby, you're in that for the wrong reason. You've been in true crime since 2012.

I don't know if you've been in criminal law. Those are very different places. So anyway, Michael was leading an interesting life to say the least before this all happened. Now his estranged wife Kim and his former girlfriend who he was having an affair with are first cousins. So he's having an affair with his wife's first cousin. Okay. Also the his wife's first cousin we had an affair with is godmother to their son.

They really are taking this back mountain shit very seriously. Cousins involved and it's all a mess. So family trees are crossing, things are weird. You can't bang your wife's family. No, not good. The worst thing you could do probably. So Kim files for divorce on April 30th. I don't know if it was the banging her cousin or the federal offenses that did it, but one

of the two. Could just be banging anybody else. There's a lot of reasons. Wow. Brought her to the courthouse. She's granted custody of the children. You know, he's a drug dealing philanderer. It's not really a good-

Who fucks the family? Who fucks the kid's godmother. Yeah. So Kim, Kim's lawyer said quote, she told me this was not the man that she married and that she loved. It was like a separate life that he was leading. Absolutely. Well done. So he is given visitation rights every other weekend and on certain holidays.

He's out on bail after he gets arrested here. Their divorce is going on through 2001, 2002, takes a while here. Now he's got a new girlfriend named Tammy Fassett, F-A-S-S-E-T-T. That's his new girlfriend that he's hanging out with, got himself a Tammy out there. So like we said, he is convicted of these crimes, he pleads guilty to all of these defrauding Medicare, to defrauding insurance, unauthorized sale of controlled substances, and he is set for sentencing on May 14, 2002. But he's out on bail until his sentencing. They're like, he's a pharmacist. Where's he going? You know, he's...

Yeah. So... He used to be a pharmacist. He's he going? You know, he's, so. He used to be a pharmacist, he's not gonna get to pharmacy anymore. I would think that we're keeping all pills away from him. He's lost his pill count and stick. Isn't that what they do, they have a stick I always say. Yeah, little popsicle stick they're throwing around with.

Little tongue depressor, yeah, that's all they do. I think, I don't know, they do know a lot though. From what I understand. They are fucking great, man. From what I understand, like if you wanna know, like if this drug is OK with this drug, don't ask your doctor. Ask a pharmacist.

They'll know way better. I've actually heard doctors say that before. So that's interesting. Now, at the window, they'll just be like, eat with this one. This one's fine. And don't take them all together. Get out of here. They know exactly what's going on with all these bills.

So that's impressive. I guess you don't know how to necessarily know the exact structure of the human foot and bones to. You just know the structure of this pill. And it's all built into the word. Whatever the word is, it's all pieces of the pill. That's what makes the word, it's weird. So Kim, the wife, the estranged wife at this point, she said she never knew her husband

was selling drugs illegally. She never had any idea She was excluded from the family finances and she wasn't really allowed to visit the pharmacy She said she thought he was just fucking around behind her back. That's why she wasn't allowed to visit Which she was right about yeah, but he's also has a drug dealing empire going on here She said I had no idea what he was doing. No clue, no clue, no clue, not one ever. I think she has no clue. What if she knew anything?

What if she has a clue? What if she knew anything at all? I'm not sure. So she said that her husband seemed very, oh I'm sorry, no this is the other guy. Yeah, she said that her husband has that friend that we talked about and his name is Hugo Salinski and she said that Hugo Salinski seemed very interested in her husband's legal case and would attend her hearing his hearings and

Give him advice and all this type of shit. So we'll talk about Hugo Salinski here Hugo is Salinski is s e l e n Hugo is so Lenski is S E L E N S K I so This is a little polish helping polish out here. That's what we do here. Now. He comes from a family. Here's a Ron and Ruth so Lenski. I think Ron is actually you go stepfather. Oh But he adopted him so gave him his name and all that now. There's seven kids total here by the way They got seven kids, Ruth and Ron here. Now the one we're gonna talk about,

Michael Krakowski's friend is Hugo Marcus Solinsky. He was born in 1974, always had problems. Just a problem child from fucking Jump. He had juvenile court when he was a kid, that kind of thing. Always in trouble In and out of jail since he was 12 one of those kids just a complete fuck up um, so his half brother who is ron solinsky jr

Said that relatives always poked fun at him because hugo didn't ever hunt He refused to go hunting with them was squeamish around deer carcasses and wouldn't get on a boat because he was afraid of water Okay, so they said he's generally a yeah, he's not an outdoorsy boy They call him a scary cat and all that kind of shit and his brother said he was afraid to drown so Like we all aren't you know it helps helps? Learning to swim is a good. It's the whole reason we swim. I fucking.

I'm afraid to drown. I'm pretty confident if I'm in water I'm not gonna drown, cause I'll swim. But I'm still afraid of it. I don't wanna drown. When I see the ocean I go, I'm not going in there,

that's huge. That'll suck me right in, never be found. That's a bit too much, yeah. Yeah, a pool? Great. I'm not afraid of that. Some lakes even, shit.

I'm scared, yeah, fuck yeah, you never know. So they said Hugo was tough when he needed to be though. And we'll find out what that means later. Um, in 1993 Hugo's about 19 and he gets a DUI. So this is an addition to his many, many, many legal problems. But this is one of the first ones that he really has as an adult here. Then if the liquid's in the bottle, he's not afraid to drown from that, huh? No, no, no, no.

He'll take that right end and gargle it. So then in June 1994, Hugo and another man slipped some ski masks on over their head. Oh, Hugo. And entered the bank branch on North River Street in, I believe it was in Kingston, or in Dallas, I believe this was. They drove there in a stolen Chevy Citation.

Hell yeah. The best getaway car ever. And, We'll just join the chase and they'll all be confused. They'll all be, we'll put the little light on top, we got the 70s hubcaps, it'll work. So it might've been one of those little citations from the 80s though, those little fuckersers there and he'll later abandon that in Kingston

it's a silver citation here but they go into this bank and rob this fucking bank and he it's pretty crazy it was the melon bank in Plains Township they said they were still searching they know right away after it happens they know Hugo's one of the guys but they were searching for the second suspect here. It's pretty crazy. So he basically is wanted for a week. They can't find him after he robs the bank here and then finally they find him and they arrested him and it was a five day search. His mother said I've been a basket case since Friday. That's what Ruth said.

She was happy. They went to his house and his stepdad, or his adopted dad, and one of their seven children were watching Beauty and the Beast in their house there. And they said, all of a sudden, more than a dozen people rushed through the door. Cops came in pounding. And Ron said, I nearly had a heart attack. He said it was our FBI agents with search warrants and Dallas township police

searching through the house. Uh, they dug in the cookie jar, rummaged through the clothes, scoured the washing machine. They were hoping to find stolen money, but they didn't. But what they did find inside the washing machine agitator, they discovered dye. That's the same dye that bank tellers use in a bank in dye packs. That's not good. They tried to literally wash the money. Wow.

We'll launder it. It's fine. That is fucking wild. So they also seize six rounds of ammunition, a rock and a stack of telephone bills. I don't know what the rock could possibly have evidentiary value for in a bank robbery. They didn't throw it through a front window of the bank and then I don't get it, so. And telephone bills?

Telephone bills, that might be between, you know, to get correspondence between the, but I don't get a rock. Also, they found $4,000 and 50 and $100 bills, which probably came from the bank. So then they said they're still searching for their second suspect, described as a six foot four, 230 pound man.

And they said that man, the Solensky family, was said they was renting their Wyoming home, Wyoming County home since May, and now he took off. So they know who it is they're looking for. Now, in court here, Sollensky meets with FBI agents before his trial and decides to cooperate with authorities here. He goes with his dad.

His dad tells the media he's cooperating with them. He's trying to do what's right and help them arrest the other man. So that's that's what he did. They said that, and his mom was there, and his mom said she doesn't wanna believe her oldest child was involved in anything. Because they're also charging him and talking about him being involved

in a string of burglaries as well. What the fuck, man? She's like, that's crazy. And of the bank robbery, she says, well, we know he did it, but you goes just he's not a big guy He's a skinny guy, and he got coerced by the big guy That's what happened the guy forced him to force the ski mask on his head and forced a shotgun into his hand Your pressure to rob a bank. Yeah, you know how that goes

How many times have I pressured you into robbing a bank with me? It's happened so many times. You just go along with it. You just go along with it now. You don't even you don't even argue. Shit. Now any bank robbed by a six foot four guy and a five foot eight guy is going to be really bad for us. So he said she said Hugo isn't perfect and he's had his problems but he's it's not like him to rob a bank. It's not like him, you know?

It's not like anybody until they do it. Yeah. And she, then she said, this is killing the family. Hugo's not a bad person. It's just not fair. He robbed a bank. What we're doing to your family. Sure. Christ, he is going to be sentenced to, you sir, may fuck off, seven years in prison. Just about. A little shy of that for his armed robbery.

It's about six years and ten months. And he's also ordered to serve two years of supervised release. Before his sentence, before his sentencing thing here, a brief hearing was held on Solinsky's objection to a statement and pre-sentence report prepared by probation officers that he brandished a weapon during the robbery. He takes exception to that. They found though the judge found and the court found that the statement was accurate after a bank teller said, yeah this motherfucker they came in and robbed me. It was him and Earl Nagels, his co-defendant, a 31-year-old, and they entered the bank

and they made off with $9,777 in cash. Wow, so he still had almost all his cut? Yeah, he had just about all his cut. After they fled the bank, that's when the die pack burst and stained most of the cash with red dye. So at that point, Solinsky tried to remove the dye from four to $5,000 of the stolen cash by running it through his mother's washing machine. Yeah. And he admits to that.

So then they found the dye in the agitator and all that kind of shit. So that's why he cooperated because he was kind of fucked here. So yeah, he's going to serve a bunch of time and they try to say during his sentencing, he says that, he says I'm very sorry and then his attorney says this is a young man with a very serious alcohol problem. That's what happened.

Oh, the booze. Yeah, it's the booze that does it because I get drunk and I start looking for banks to rob. It happens all the time First of all, you shouldn't you shouldn't be drunk at any really anytime a bank's open for business. You probably shouldn't be hammered number one I've treated a lot of my issues with booze and never once have I considered Doing anything more illegal than going to get more booze while I was drunk Going to get fucking filibirdos, even though you

shouldn't be driving. So she said that, the lawyer said she realized, and that Hugo realized that he needs to get help for his problem when he surrendered to the FBI. So, you know, he's here. Now the assistant US attorney said, quote, I don't buy it. He even says that a bank employee, because they keep saying that he didn't intend to scare anybody.

He was just trying to get the money. He just wanted the money and booze. The prosecutor said that's funny. Why did he rack a shotgun round when in front of a cashier's face, in front of a clerk teller's face? Yeah, that's the scariest sound. Yeah. So that's interesting.

And so anyway, they end up reducing his sentence on the bank robbery to 22 months from a range of 51 to 63 months. However, let the mandatory 60 month sentence on the firearm charge in place, left that in place. And in addition, the judge ordered Solinsky to pay a hundred100 special assessment, a fee charged of convicted defendants.

So that's what he's gonna get. So altogether 82 months in federal prison is what he gets here. Okay, that's a hundred bucks. Now in prison, he is stabbed during a prison fight at one point. Oh, really? Yeah, and he wouldn't, people in prison said

he wouldn't take shit from anybody. He was, he knew he was in an environment that he needed to be you know fighting He was quick to come to the aid of friends as well and people in prison like that His dad even said when something happened he would stand up for himself, but he wasn't violent So he's not violent. That's what we know. Okay now January 2001 is when Hugo is released from prison. This is right around the time, that year is when Krakowski gets busted for what he's doing.

So he returned to his home and struggled with being out of jail, because he was in there. Not easy. From 20 to 26, 27 too, that's a lot of your formative years there. Sure. Yeah. 26, 27 too is a, you know, that's a lot of your formative years there. Yeah. So he comes home to live with his family and I guess they said he didn't get along with

his father at this point with Ron. His lone ally was his mother and she got to the point where she couldn't intervene because she's dead. She died while she's in, while he was in prison. So his lone ally is gone. Yeah. Now he's at home and he's butt's head with his dad, who's a stepfather, but adopted.

Adopted, yeah. And he probably throws in his face a lot. You just got out of prison, you fucking moron. No, absolutely. And Ron said that this was a woman who would walk on hot coals for him, meaning for Hugo, but she died. And he also said quote, while she lived for her son, seeing her first born in prison issue jumpsuit

is what partially killed her, Ron says. Yep, she lost it and I could see the change. She had cancer, though. I don't think that can cause cancer. Orange jumpsuits cause cancer. Yeah, wow. You know what? That's some science we need to look into. So apparently he and Ron and Hugo didn't get along about anything. Anything. And I guess Ron never forgave him for the bank robbery because it was embarrassing. And he's embarrassing for the family and I guess Ron was a bank manager. Really? Yes, so he was like, you can't do that.

You can't. So after about two months, he ends up moving out of the house, Hugo does. It's not working out at all. He kind of sleeps on some couches for a while, does all of that shit, doesn't really hang out with his family, shows up at his grandmother's 80th birthday party and shit like that, but otherwise he's away from

the family. Ron said Hugo was offered every opportunity in this house that everyone else was. He just got mixed up when he was 14 and wanted a wild way of life. He's got a girlfriend named Christina Strum, by the way, at this point as well. So he he's gonna end up living with her and they're gonna try to have a little life together So now this is the time when he moves out and everything and he's couch surfing and all that That's when he hooks up with Krakowski. Yeah and starts giving him legal advice Krakowski ended up paying Hugo somewhere between 60 and 80 thousand dollars, which was supposed to be for some kind of legal assistance he's providing for Korkowski,

but he's not a lawyer. So you could just give that money to a lawyer who would actually do that. But apparently he's given it to this guy for help with I don't even know what. Hugo spent the money that he obtained from Krakowski and including putting a down payment on a house in Mount on Mount Olivet Road in Kingston Township. So that's he's going to use this money to fuck literally to buy a house. Yeah, start a family, build a life. He's got this girlfriend with Christina Strom. It's going to be purchased in the name of her, in Christina's name.

That's the house. So they closed on the purchase of the property, Hugo and Christina, on April 30, 2002, but they did not have the funds to cover the closing costs, which is about 10 grand. So, that's what they're trying to figure out. Now on May 1st, 2002, that is about, what is that, April 30th is the closing. On May 1st, Hugo's brother gives away a shotgun. This is Ron Jr. He gives his 16 gauge shotgun.

That is so weird that that keeps, 16 gauge keeps coming up when it's not the most common Shotgun by any stretch Weird and it came up in multiple episodes in the last month He gives this shotgun to a guy named Patrick Russin, which is a Russian without an a russin He thought now Ron said he thought this shotgun was going to be used to shoot skunks that were running wild on Hugo's property.

Just it's a fucking skunk farm up there. Just all skunks. Which is the, that's the worst thing you could have is a skunk infestation. Yeah. Horrifying. I would rather have a rat infestation. At least rats don't squirt me with stinky liquid if I go outside to throw my garbage out after dark. You know what I mean?

Out of their asshole that's fucked up man. Get your asshole juice off of me. So Russin came to Ron Junior's house in Dallas asking to borrow the shotgun for skunks So yeah, he said the skunks keep spraying these dogs. So we got to shoot these skunks All right. Now remember May 14th 2002 is Krakowski's sentencing date So he's been getting all this legal advice and everything like that and then May 14th 2002 The date comes and he does not show up for sentencing Really? Oh, no, he's him., Tammy's no longer, they're both gone.

Tammy and he are on the run. On the fucking lamb it looks like here, so yeah, they take off. They're not gonna go, I'm not going down for this shit, man. He hasn't even been sentenced and told how long he's going, but he knows he's going, so he's wrong. He knows he's going to prison. Yeah, and apparently he was supposed to pick his kids up from school. That is how we knew he was missing

before that even happened, before he didn't show up for sentencing, because his ex-wife said that she remembers this day because she had left a voicemail on his cell phone saying, quote, you better be in a car accident, you better be stuck on the side of the road somewhere, you son of a bitch bastard, screaming and yelling at him.

So apparently, his parents, Geraldine and Michael Krakowski Sr. here, knew that their son was involved in these criminal acts and apparently hid a significant amount of his ill-gotten gains at their home. The parents ended up, after he disappears, the parents take $ thousand dollars in cash from the house and go and

Pay their sons bail bondsmen because he didn't show up for sentencing so now they owe them that own this money So rather than lose their house or whatever they put up they took his $40,000 that he had left behind and they use it for that now May 4th 2002 $5,000 that he had left behind and they use it for that now May 4th 2002 So that is you know, this is we're going back ten days before There's a deposit here There's a bank teller who says that

Hugo deposit $9,900 deposited. Okay, which is just below where you start looking at the transactions into Heather Strom's checking account. That's on a Saturday, May 4th here and explain that this was she's going to be using, you know, close on a house with this 479 Mount Olivet road is the address that they're closing on. They said that Strom only had $400.46 in her checking account prior to the deposit. So there we go. And then there was a check drawn from her account that Monday for $10,079.50, which I assume is the closing cost.

Now how the fuck did they get 10 grand? Yeah, where did that come from? Well apparently, remember Patrick Russon, the guy with the shotgun? There's another guy here named Paul Weakley. W-E-A-K-L-E-Y. Paul Weakley, he is a guy that Hugo met in federal prison. Now, apparently those two started cooking up a plan. They were buddies in prison and they started cooking up a plan that they are going to rob

Kerkowski. He's got tons of cash all over his house. He's a drug dealer hiding cash. So anyway, Hugo and Paul Weekly went to Kerkowski's house on May 3rd, 2002, the day before the $10,000 deposit they hang out for a while drink a beer for a bit you know hang just normal social shit Michael and Tammy are both there and it's you know Hugo and Paul out of nowhere Hugo pulls out a gun and orders Michael and Tammy to lay on the floor. Okay. Okay.

He binds them with flex ties and duct tape. Oh no. Duct tape over their eyes, mind you. Oh. And then, apparently, they both beat Michael Krakowski with a rolling pin into telling them where the money was. Where's the money? Where's the money? So they're beating him.

He apparently said there's two bags of cash of approximately $60,000 that he has here in his house. And he said his father has another $60,000 cash too, of his. So that's where cash is. At that point, Paul weekly says that Hugo pulled the zip tie around Kerkowski's neck until he died. Oh my God. Strangle him with a fucking zip tie, which is absolutely brutal. That is fucking brutal. And lazy. Like that's, you know what I mean? That is the worst. It takes very little. It take one real good pull and that's pretty much it

And then you just walk away. That's that's a lazy strangulation there So he tied it so hard that he stopped breathing and he died Then he went over and killed Tammy the same way God Jesus. She's just the girlfriend. She isn't involved in any of this shit. So anyway, he was able to pay his clothing, closing costs after that. And now several days after this, but before they actually moved into the property, he asked the property owner, the seller of the house to leave the property for a day. Just leave. I got to have the house to myself for a day.

I got to do some, I got to sage the place. Yeah, whatever. I'm having a priest in. I don't know what the fuck he's doing. So, um, that's what he was told. The guy left for a day and that was that. Um, yeah. Hugo also contacted Krakowski's parents, contacted Michael's parents, who they believed that he had taken off and ran away. And he said, yeah, I, you you know he called him and said fuck I don't know where he is either do you guys know where he is and they said

no he says something about 60 grand there can that's the thing here now over the next couple of months here he basically convinces Hugo convinces K Kirkowski's father to give him the sixty thousand dollars that Kirkowski gave his father with the promise that this is for Kirkowski's new lawyers who are going to try to help him avoid going to prison for running away from a sentencing. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him we're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world and the suspect he's been identified as Luigi Nicholas man, Johnny became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history was targeted premeditated and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber host of Luigi produced by law and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that

could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. I mean maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. 4th 2024 CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

This a silent pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him we're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world and the suspect. He's been identified as a weegee Nicholas manjoni became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history was targeted premeditated and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber host of Luigi produced by law and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that

could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. I mean maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real?

Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries, and each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries should be your new go-to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple podcasts. So he's telling him, look, I'm in contact with Michael. I need this money so I can pay his lawyer so we can have him be able to come back and all this shit. So then he, and the father did it. He gave him $60,000. Then he went over and got another forty thousand dollars from Krakowski's father with a little less clever ruse

You know that of the lawyer all he just pulled a gun on him and told him to give me forty thousand dollars Or I'll shoot you in the fucking head That's all now That happened in May of 2002 So a year goes by Literally a year goes by they think Krakowski's on the run Everybody does yeah, they think he's on the lam. He had so much cash from his drug dealing. He's probably in South America by now

That's what everybody thinks. I mean why else why would he stick around if he's got three million dollars in cash fucking takeoff? So then on June 4th 2003 it's about a year later Paul weekly the partner in the Krakowski murder here You goes pal He gets arrested on a burglary charge and was a suspect in the robbery of a bartender in Kingston Township Yeah, cuz a 100 grand split two ways. Even if he doesn't split it evenly,

that doesn't stretch. And I don't think these guys are like, well, I got this much for I'm going to move into a sensibly priced apartment, and I'm going to have a budget this out. I got this much? I'm going to get myself a bachelor's degree? I'm going to get in?

Yeah, I'm going to go to community college with this money, and then I'm going to parlay that into a decent group. No no I think these guys are probably fucking off buying drugs and booze and women and whatever else they can fucking get their hands on probably going to Vegas and partying or something so yeah yeah based on a burglary charge and being a suspect in a robbery case which this is a guy who's already been in federal prison so it's got a record he's in a lot of trouble.

He decides to start cooperating with the cops. I'll tell you guys some things. And he goes, I know of bodies buried at a house on Mount Olivet Road in Kingston Township. He gives all these statements regarding the killings, exactly what we just told you, which we'll tell you in more detail later. He initially attempted to distance himself from this, like I was there, but I don't

know nothing. Eventually, he confessed to his involvement. Yes, I hit the guy a couple of times, asked him where the money is and all that, and says he can lead law enforcement to the burial site as well. He can do that. He said that Hugo had in his possession a shoe box filled with cash that Korkowski had given him constituting an incredibly large sum of money like maybe a hundred thousand dollars. We know that money is completely gone so we know that for a fact.

There might be a shoe box with like four singles in it. Yeah. So, Weekly told the cops here that on the day of the murders, he was the one who dragged Korkowski and Tammy Fassett's bodies out of his car and into the residence that he shared with Hugo and his girlfriend Heather Strom at their new house that they just got. So he said that was the old house because So he said, that was the old house, because then, yeah, that's the old house. They stashed these two corpses in their house for a couple days.

Golly. And they stayed at a hotel. And then two nights later, after the murder there, they left, the bodies were in his vehicle then, and that's when he said he was gonna bury them after that. He says about Hugo, quote, when he gets those googly eyes, watch out. Googly, great googly moogly eyes.

Wander around in his head. Yeah, it starts bouncing around, you better watch out, boy. He also led police to to he said there's two bodies there he goes there's another corpse there as well it's burned there's a third there's a third corpse and he says I also have knowledge of up to up to as many as 11 other murders I'm talking about yeah and they were like we think he's lying about a lot of this but but not the Kerkowski thing. So June 5th, the very next day,

Hugo's sister, Maryanne says she was at her brother's house. The house that he moved into with Heather strong. They were preparing for a graduation party for her daughter. Apparently that is when the house is swarmed with police with search warrants here. That's a nice graduation for that poor kid I feel dude all her friends were there that sucks imagine that They start digging corpses up for Christ's sake while you're trying to put the punch is good just you can have some We got we got a six-foot sandwich

It says graduate graduate on that pill Yes balloons There's not usually balloons at like corpse unveiling so you know like a corpse unearthing There's not usually balloons and party favors and shit It's so strange. So they said that, the woman said she was very shocked when she learned what was happening. His sister said, this is Hugo's sister,

quote, he immediately looked at me and said, oh my God, they're looking for bodies. That's not good. No. That's pretty bad. If a bunch of cops were in my yard, I go I don't know what the fuck they're doing here. I would have literally no idea He knew exactly what was happening nailed it. I'd be very confused. They'd be like maybe they're setting up on the neighbor

I don't know what's happening. I've done nothing so Yes, so he's arrested Hugo obviously on June 5th when they served the search warrant and found bodies in his fucking yard they find the bodies of Kerkowski and facet buried in a mixture of natural earth store purchased soil and coal remnants what's oh like huh he used bags of topsoil too oh not tried yeah we'll talk well the coal is from other fires these two are not burned we'll talk. Well, the coal is from other fires. These two are not burned We'll talk about people who were Investigators also discover a burn pit on the property with the remains of at least three people three people

These are three people besides Tammy and Kirkowski that we just found my god Yes, they identify two of these people as a Daya Keeler, 22 years old and Frank James, 29 years old. And they have nicknames too, we'll get into Frank James is, we'll get into it. So there's a guy who lives on a trailer on Hugo's property said he was talking to Hugo when the cop showed up and he said they must have known what they were doing because they went right to the spot. Oh boy. Because weekly had told them. Now the that was when they bring Patrick Russen into the whole deal here and Patrick Russen

says that the shotgun that he got to shoot skunks from Hugo's brother, was the same shotgun used to murder these two men that we found in the burn pit. So the prosecutors later, they say that he killed, it was Frank James, his name is Rudy, and Adya Keeler's nickname is Red Man. You can't kill Red Man. A lady named Red Man, that means she cheats you. No, no, it's a guy, it's a guy. Adya is his name. It's a man.

Oh, what is it? Adaya, A-D-E-I-Y-E. Okay. I think it's Adaya, but yeah, Redman. They're both, both of them are black guys, by the way. Okay. So they got. Gotta be a chaw guy, right?

Gotta be a what? A chaw guy, Redman, the pouch-o. Oh my God. What are you doing? Dude, I man, the pouch guy. Oh my God, what are you doing? Dude, I got so scared for a second there. I was like, what kind of weird fucking racist rabbit hole are you going on here? A Chaw guy?

What does that mean? I was like, I don't even know what that means. What are you? What? I was like, what is happening right now? Who am I talking to? Don't do it, Jimmy. Ladies and gentlemen, my partner Andrew Jackson.

It's been a long time. He created a new slur, it's a Chaw guy. Maybe. Just from knowing a lot of black people, there's kind of red is kind of a yellow, and there's people that are more red. He might be Red Man for that, or he might have really liked Red Man.

He could be a big fan. This be like 2001 or two you know who knows like him so much i stole his name i said i'm red man now this is my partner method man here we are so uh big fun of m&m call me m&m from now on just all the time call me Eminem from now on. Just all the time. So besides implicating Hugo as the trigger man in the murders, Patrick Russen also says that Hugo called his younger brothers to ask if he could borrow the gun the same day

as one of the murders. So Hugo asked to borrow the gun, Russen just went to pick it up. That's what he says. So Russen also says he couldn't remember if Hugo went to pick up the shotgun, or if the guy came, or if Ron Jr. came and delivered it. But Ron Jr. says, Patrick came and got it.

So, it's neither of the things Patrick says it is. So, yeah, now, apparently, the murders of Frank James and Red Man Keeler here, Solensky picked up Frank James and his girlfriend, Eureta Bradford, at a Wilkes-Barre hospital on, Wilkes-Barre? Wilkes-Barre, yeah, right? Wilkes-Barre?

I think it's Wilkes-Barre. It's V-A-R-R-E, right? It's Wilkes-Barre, I think. It's a real, it's weird, but I think that's what it is. Picked them up on May 13th, 2003. So that is, you know what, not even 10 days after the murder of, or just, that was exactly 10 days after the murder. May 13th?

Oh no, that was, I'm sorry, that's a year and 10 days after he killed Krakowski and Fassett. So apparently the woman here, Eureta, had just given birth after he killed he killed Krakowski and so she could get a prescription he gave them a ride to her Sherman Hills apartment where somebody else popped in and that's a die a killer red man. He popped in both of these guys by the way apparently allegedly sell drugs, Frank and a diet.

So that is when apparently, uh, Salinsky took both of these guys. So drop the baby and the, and the new mother off. This guy is coming home from the hospital with a new baby and he's like, yeah, you guys go inside, I'm gonna go with my friends for a while, see you later. Imagine any guy who's had a child with a woman you're with and everything like that. Imagine, number one, you get a ride from your friend

to go home from the hospital, and then you're like, all right, peace, while she carries in a car seat and a bag with fucking diapers in it and a baby on one hand, all this shit. You're like, you'll keep that thing alive alone. I'm gonna go out for a while, see you later. That is ballsy, try that move. I'm going out with my friend.

What, you were in there, you were in labor for 12 hours. That was a long time I had to sit there with you. So now I gotta go out. Wow. Couped up in that hospital for the last 48 hours. I gotta go. I gotta go. I got some fucking some tail to get on the side here. So now he's driving away. Hugo's driving away with Rudy and red man here. Okay. Now that is when Salinsky took him to his home, took the both these men to his home on Mount Olivet road.

Russen was at the home, Patrick Russen, when he saw a school a salinski arrive with two black males in the car. I guess they all came in, they got some pizza. Yeah. Having a little party. This guy's having pizza at his friend's house when it, wow, mind exploded. That hospital food for the last 48 hours was shit. I'm gonna need a Papa John's. My ex-wife would have stabbed me in the throat

if I did this. Mix that with like postpartum and everything else? Holy shit. That would have taken more than she took from me. Fuck yeah, yeah. She may have taken my life. That's what I mean. You would be deserved of it. So Patrick said at one point he went to sleep inside the home during this.

That's how long it was meandering. They're hanging out. Solinsky later went inside and told Patrick Russin, this is according to Russin, that the guys are in the garage and Russen went to get them, and as he did, he saw Solinsky grab the shotgun and load it with three shells. Then they went into the garage.

Patrick Russen said he heard a bang, one loud bang. He says, quote, so then he turns and sees Frank James, Rudy, falling to the ground shot. That's what he said. He then chased red man and handcuffed him. Hugo does. That's what, that's what Russell is saying now. So apparently here he Patrick Russell says that Hugo dragged Frank James's body into the garage and stole his drugs and money.

Around the same time, he said, Solinsky went back outside and Russin heard Solinsky talking to his former girlfriend on the phone who lived at his house from outside the garage, or not on the phone, just talking to her outside on the property. This is why, while they kept Redman tied up in the garage for a while and then inside the home.

So the next morning, after the girlfriend left for work at about 7.30, Solensky began interrogating Redman for information about another drug dealer he wanted to rob. He just held him hostage all night till his girlfriend left in the morning. His girlfriend came out and said, what was that noise? And he went, Oh, I dropped a fucking thing and it's fine. And she goes, sounded like a gunshot. And he's like, no, no gunshot. That's crazy. And he's like, okay, no more gunshots till she leaves

for work. This guy's not allowed to die tonight. Wow. So apparently red man cooperated even offered to help even offered to help before they ended up taking him outside and Patrick said then he heard another shot and Red man was shot and on the ground Salensky told Patrick Russen to pick him up But I guess he wasn't dead red man. So he tried to get up. He was trying to get up and Hugo shot him again And Patrick said he didn't move after that so what they did is they took the bodies into the burn pit and burn them and Tossed the remaining bones and garbage bags which were also found that bags full of burnt bones

They found bagged up remains. Fuck man. That is pretty goddamn crazy. And he says that Paul Weakley also helped with the burning and the disposing as well. So that is pretty fucking wild. Yeah, because they came in, they identified the bodies of Krakowski and Fassett, and then literally found more bodies. They were like, well, if these are the people we're looking for, who the fuck are these people? So this is a mess now. Now we have at least five bodies.

A lot, yeah. And they have bone fragments of what they believe are up to 12 people all together here. This is a mess, a fucking mess. I mean, it's John Wayne Gacy's house just out. He didn't have a yard this big. Or else he would have just did this. It's so many people.

It's so many people. Think about how many people 12 people is. He's just thinking like, I can just do things, kill people and throw them in the yard. No one will notice. It's just a habit he's gotten into now. It's weird as fuck. So now his ex-wife here, this is Krakowski's ex-wife,

Michael, the victim here, Kim, she said she doesn't know how his body ended up in her cousin's ex-boyfriend's backyard. Because also, yeah, Hugo was involved in that as well. Hugo went out with another cousin of hers. Oh my God. The cousin said she doesn't know either. So I think that's how they met, by the way,

is through the family, because I think we'll find that out later in court. So, yeah. She, by the way, has been telling her kids that her father was missing, their father was missing for the last year. We don't know where he is. But now she said that his remains are identified.

She told her kids, I just want to tell you, we know where daddy is now. Yay! He's still not going to come to your birthday. And then she said, he's in heaven. He died. Oh my God. You got to start that out with bad news kids. You can't say, hey kids, we know where daddy is.

He's in heaven. She thought once back in the day she thought that he should just be left in jail for what he had done to his family with all this legal bullshit that Krakowski caused. But now the words are going to come back to haunt this woman. Yep. She said it sickens me to know that he dies like died like that and the whole thing troubles her. And so yeah, there is that according to her, Kim and several other people.

So Linsky Hugo was considered Krakowski's best friend. Oh, geez. Krakowski considered him his best friend. So they're talking, they're arresting everybody, obviously. They arrest Weekly, he's been arrested, they arrest Russ and they arrest Hugo. Bring everybody in and they're asking a lot of people, did he, because what they're saying is that

Hugo kept people from going on certain areas of his property on purpose. He kept certain areas like off-limits to people but then they talked to his little sister Brooke who says she was 12 when this happened because this is later on and she says that he had gave her unfettered access to the property her and others there were no forbidden areas none of that she said she and others. There were no forbidden areas, none of that. She said she and others would ride ATVs on the trails that he made behind the property and that he was a stickler for safety. She said, there were no restrictions, just make sure you wear a helmet when you

ride the quads. I don't want to have to burn and bury another body. Okay. So wow. Imagine Dahmer just being a stickler about seatbelts would have been so funny if he was a real stickler for bicycle safety that was his thing he's like listen people with traffic let's go reflectors all around yeah and I murder children do the speed limit to get people to his home to rape and murder them I think he did he wants him to get people to his home to rape and murder them? I think he did. He wants them to get there safely. If we get into an accident and get killed on the way there, how am I going to drill a hole in your head and make a fucking sex zombie out of you?

How is that possible? No fuck zombies if we get in an accident. Not going to happen. Put your suit belt on. Jesus. Jesus Christ, man. So here's one witness Louise Ben Sacken. She is Krakowski's neighbor now,

Michael Krakowski's neighbor, and she said she observed a man with a tattoo driving away from Krakowski's house as a passenger in a brown car at approximately 5 p.m. on May 3rd, 2002, which is the date of the murders. She then identified Hugo of the murders she then identified Hugo as the individuals she saw on the date of those murders from a photograph of him and

The brown vehicle from a photograph of the one that belonged to Carrie Bartu Kim's cousin Who Hugo was fucking and I guess Michael used to have a relationship with I don't know what's going on It's wild. Where's the tattoo right on his fucking face? Maybe it was on his arm when is this May maybe he had no sleeves on I've no yeah who knows an acquaintance of him here she said she may have given him a ride from Krakowski's house on that date she said I think I made her picked him up he asked me for a ride I gave him a ride, but you know, that was that. Now the evidence against Hugo here

includes Paul Weakley's testimony and statements to the cops regarding Hugo's role in planning the crimes, you know, committing the robbery, the murders, and doing everything like that. The burial of the bodies, eyewitness testimony of the neighbor showing that he left Michael Krakowski's house on the day of the bodies, eyewitness testimony of the neighbor showing that he left Michael Krakowski's house on the

day to the murders, the testimony of Hugo's girlfriend, Christina, regarding their immediate need to raise approximately $10,000 to cover the closing costs, and testimony of the bank employee saying that he deposited approximately $10,000 in cash in this account the day after the alleged murders happened and would have no other way to get it Also that Hugo and weekly statements to Patrick Russon regarding Michael Krakowski's murder prior to the discovery of the bodies

Then there's obviously the June two thousand three discovery of the bodies. That's pretty big evidence There is the the homeowner that they bought it from, the seller of their house, who also says that Hugo asked him to get out of the house for a day, and that was like two days after the murders, which lines right up with what Weekly said, which they kept him for a couple days. There's also a guy named Samuel Guse, who is, this is very complicated, the Samuel Guse. He's a drug dealer who says he was robbed by Hugo and Paul Weekly. Oh. But even in court there's all sorts of discrepancies because Hugo doesn't smoke and never smokes, but Guse said that he smoked a cigarette with

both guys. They all had a cigarette, but Hugo never smoked, so there's this whole thing there. It doesn't matter. Either way, he said that he heard about Hugo's participation in the robbery here, and his, or I'm sorry, he knew about it because it happened to him, and he said it had similar characteristics to the Krakowski robbery. So it's the same thing. They tie him up. They ask him where the money is. They just didn't kill him

So additional evidence of guilt here includes the testimony of Rodney Samson that Hugo offered him $20,000 in April 2002 to assist in quote taking care of Krakowski Which Samson knew was murder and he was like, I don't think so also the cousin Kim's cousin Carrie Bartu's testimony that That Hugo gave her a thousand dollars several hours after the murders occurred and told her to give three hundred dollars of that amount to Kim Kirkowski and Say it was from Michael. The guy they just killed. Yeah, this is creepy as fuck, dude.

That's cold. Go give this to his ex-wife, mother of his children, and be like, it's from him. He said to give this to you. Wow, is all I have to say. That's fucking dark, man. Then five days after the murders, Hugo contacts Kim Krakowski's boyfriend

Wow, I'm talks to Kim Krakowski's boyfriend and offers to pay for diapers and food for Michael and Kim's children Which they're like, why would you do that? That's weird Then also they so everything basically is all this shit. Now also Ernie Culp is the guy I believe who lives on the property and the trailer. And he said he saw Weekly and Hugo in early May 2002 holding digging implements near a freshly dug patch of land on the property, which is right when the bodies were buried. Now Hugo says, I'm an innocent man. Really?

I didn't do any of this stuff, that's crazy. That's a lot of bodies, man. I didn't kill any of them. People must be burying bodies on my property without my knowledge. That's what they're doing, they're burning bodies and burying them on my property. I didn't do any of this, this is crazy.

He's so dumb. This is so crazy, he said, look at your timeline, doesn't make any sense, That's what it is. He goes, see, if you look at the timeline, you can see how innocent I am. Yeah. He says there's three inconsistencies here, his lawyer says.

First, that Hugo insists that the timeline here is all fucked up. He said, doesn't make any sense. He cites Weekly's statement, Paul Weekly, that he arrived, that Weekly arrived with Hugo at approximately 2 p.m. and that the two men drank beer and talked with Krakowski and facet for over an hour. Yet Paul weekly also stated that Krakowski needed to leave by 3 p.m. to pick up his children at daycare by 4 p.m. and there was no issue that Krakowski was ever late in having to

get ready or leave. So he's saying that it must not the times must have been earlier then. So he also Hugo also says that the neighbors testimony that says she saw Krakowski mowing his lawn between two and four p.m. that day, which means that Hugo and weekly would have had to have arrived well after 2 p.m. but before he had to pick his kids up and Kirkowski's testimony Kirkowski's mother's testimony that she had a 15 minute telephone conversation with Tammy facet while Kirkowski or I'm sorry while Hugo and weekly were in the house she said oh yeah we have people over that took place between fourth to 30 and 4 p.m

So Now she doesn't know exactly what now He also says that there's no possible way the timeline immediately after the murders could be accurate He says Paul weekly said that Hugo left you He looked at you Paul left Hugo behind to finish cleaning up and drove away from Krakowski's house with the two bodies arriving at the home that they all shared together here now Hugo contends that the timeline doesn't make sense with the neighbors testimony who saw Hugo drive away at 5 p.m Which why not they could go in separate cars and that's not an issue

there he left with the cousin the other guy left with the bodies so that's how it works the timeline is that that makes it that he didn't do it that makes 12 bodies on his own property so that makes less bones in his fucking yard up here that's crazy as fuck he also says the timeline later on in the evening of the murders was similarly impossible. He references, um, Hugo references Krakowski's parents testimony that they returned home from dinner on May 3rd, 2002 at approximately 10 to 11 PM to discover their son had not picked up his children from daycare.

And then they drove over to Michael's house. However, the neighbor stated she began taking notes after speaking with Krakowski's father and that the journal that she kept tracking the events related to Krakowski's disappearance showed her first entry at 9.36, which is before the time that the parents even arrived home from dinner. So, yes, a year ago, people don't remember if it was fucking 9.30 or 10.30. That's what this is. That's all it is.

Body's in the yard, my friend. You know. He's doing timeline based on word, not proof. So it doesn't matter anyway. Yeah, based on people's recollection a year later, which is crazy. I mean, if you get the month right a year later, you're pretty good.

The time, forget about it. So anyway, everybody's arrested. They find at least five bodies and as many as of 12 sets of human remains on the property. Jesus. So yeah, they found the bones of Keeler and James in garbage bags and they also found a piece of skin tissue they believed to be Keeler's on a garage door panel. Viscera. Human shrapnel is what that is.

That is gross. He's also accused of burning the victims obviously here. They said that Patrick Russon used a rake and shovel to clean out the burn pit after the bodies were destroyed, you know, put it all in bags. 23 fragments of human bone, a shovel and a panel of Solinsky's garage door are all taken as evidence. That's where the panel that has the human tissue on it. There's also, they find two buttons. One from a pair of Tommy Hilfiger jeans and the other from a pair of Snoop Dogg clothing jeans. He's the guy that bought it.

This is very 2002 K-Momo here. Like this is, wow. What was Snoop Dogg's brand? Snoop Dogg clothing. Was it? SDC. That's what it was, Snoop Dogg clothing was it S.D.C. That's what it was Snoop Dogg clothing. Yeah I guess I did see the S.D.C. logo. I didn't know it was called that. That shows how unsuccessful that was. That was weird. Well there's a time in between

famous and nostalgia famous when no one gives a fuck about you. And that was the time when Snoop Dogg couldn't get, nobody won't give a shit about Snoop Dogg in 2002. That's why he was making clothes, because no one cared. It was after he was on like fucking no limit for a while. Remember that? Fucked him all up and like he was damaged goods at that point, nobody cared.

Yeah, then by like 2012, he's in this, hey, I remember him. And it's different than every yeah, so Things that tease that it's weed related now. We're just selling weed That's what that's what everybody does. That's that's the life cycle of a celebrity. Yeah famous famous famous Fuck you go. Fuck your mother ten years later. I love that guy Okay, remember that song That was so much fun. Remember that? I remember. That was great.

Yeah, Jenna Juice was fun. And now he's talking about don't hate people. Meanwhile, he hated everybody wearing red for the longest time. Except for Shug Knight. Right. One guy. Somehow. With money in his pocket.

So yeah, this is two buttons, Tommy Hilfiger stooped dog clothing jeans that were found in garbage bags outside the home. A charred Nike shoe sole with the trademark swoosh still intact was also presented as evidence here. The letters SDC, which stands for Snoop Dogg clothing, were clearly visible on one button. Wow, and witnesses all said that both victims were last seen in that clothing, by the way.

Oh, boy. You can tell a pair of Snoop Dogg jeans when you see it. That's all I'm saying. So there's also a chandelier that comes into question here. Ron Solensky Jr. This is his brother, not his father, said that his brother Hugo asked him to remove the chandelier from the Mount Olivet homes garage. The conversation took place at the correction facility here at the county jail where Hugo's being held and the chandelier is relevant to the prosecution's case because Hugo Solensky and Patrick Russen allegedly stole the

chandelier and other items from a former Plymouth clothing store. Before Keeler was killed, Hugo and Russon allegedly interrogated him. Keeler had told them about the store and how they might find money and drugs there. And that's where they stole the chandelier from. As for the chandelier, Ron said that he sold it for $15 to an antique store. And the owner said that, yes it for $15 to an antique store. Okay.

And the owner said that yes, he was a, he did that. They said that was not the only thing Ron and Hugo talked about that day at the correctional facility. They also were talking about the bodies. And they said, did you ask him what was going on? And Ron said, yeah, of course. He said, I'm being set up. I didn't do it.

People are placing bodies in my yard. It's crazy. I mean, really, like once a year, you should go around with a cadaver dog just to make sure nobody, like while you were on vacation, at work one day, just happened to slip a couple of bodies in there, because you really never know. I mean, honestly, get in there.

Sometimes those dogs fail. Get yourself a metal detector and see if you can find some Snoop Dogg clothing buttons on your property If you can find that it's a there's a body not far behind obviously Now he goes to court for his preliminaries they he's described as looking cocky and unconcerned in court He always looks cocky and unconcerned. He's a real cocky asshole. You go. He stared down the witnesses Which again, that's that's a new one. I have a. He stared down the witnesses, which again, that's a new one.

That's some wild behavior for a man with 12 bodies on his property. Eye fucking witnesses, that's a lot. Smiled at the prosecutors, all that kind of shit. Thought he was cute. Don't do that. Yeah, he's essentially Karen Reading. That's exactly what she's doing right now.

It's less threatening because she's a lady not a dude with 12 fucking bodies. Yeah, 12 bodies in his yard. If she had 12 bodies in her yard, I don't think she'd be that smug though. So. According to her, the entire Boston Police Department is against her.

Maybe don't be so fucking smug. That's what I'm saying. Well, we'll talk about that at the Patreon. Don't you worry about that. We got a lot. Can't wait. So, and there's a lot of dirty shit going on there too. There's a lot man. That's one of those where you go, Oh, we'll hopefully have a opinion on it by the end of the episode. So this guy here, he said,

he told reporters he knew nothing about corpses and garbage bags full of burnt bones found in his home. I don't know nothing about it. No, no shit. So after this, this is in July, police complete a 35 day search of the property and then Heather, Christina Strom comes back, lives there. Yeah, she's living there. Yeah, they said accompanied by a large black dog, she was seen walking in the yard at about 1.30 p.m.

And she said, a reporter came.m. and she said a reporter came up to her and she said I really don't want to be interviewed sorry I'm sure you do yeah what is this where the corpses were so 2003 while he goes in jail awaiting multiple trials for lots of shit here he has a conversation with his father okay or whatever Or whatever, adopted father. And Ron said, there's crazy people in this world, that's why you're sitting here. There's a crazy person in Luzerne County Jail, Hugo.

That's what he told reporters afterwards. My son's crazy. He said that when the reporters first knocked on his door, he said that, he told them right away, the only connection I have to him is our name, that's it. He's adopted, I don't hang out with him, literally. He was just like, don't know him. And I wouldn't have that if I didn't do

that goddamn paperwork. He said I had a normal stable family of seven children, and he said this, he's the oldest by the way, Hugo, and he said that it was disassociation, they're not together, he said he was a mischievous kid who thought it would blossom into such a notorious criminal record. He says it's, you know, seeing his son splashed across TV screens and front pages has been less painful this time around, he said though. The first time with the bank robbery was worse.

Now I just say fuck him. He said it's been a hell of a lot easier than 10 years ago. People are compassionate. People I would never expect. People were much more brutal 10 years ago. Yup. He said now, he said, then he talks to the fucking reporters about the other six children and everything like that.

And he said the age span of the kids ranged nearly two decades and he says I have six other children six out of seven is not a bad record six good ones you know yeah so October 2003 it's a Friday a little after sundown so anybody Orthodox can't turn the lights off and that's a very northeastern joke and you didn't even get it did you? Orthodox Jews can't do anything after Friday at sundown. They can't turn their lights on? They can't do anything till the next day. Yeah it's a what? It's the Sabbath they're not allowed to do stuff. There's a whole there's a whole industry of people that make like devices to get around it

It's hilarious. Yeah I'm saying your religion is hilarious and just say it's hilarious that you're like, you know, maybe I can get around it though That's funny. Anytime you try to get around what you think is the Word of God. I always find that hilarious It's like I think he knows he'll probably know that you're that you're cheating Yeah, they look for loopholes like it's the law or some shit. So October of 2003, Solensky opens up a window at the Luzerne County Correctional Facility and uses a rope made of bedsheets to climb down seven stories. Seven stories? Seven stories he climbed down. And nobody saw this 70 foot long tail

hanging out the window? Nobody saw this old timey burglar fucking rope hanging out of a window. What are we talking about? This is the silliest, this is a cartoon how you escaped from jail. 70 feet of bed sheet. That is impressive and then tossed a mattress over the barbed wire fence to escape. Brilliant. Climbed right over it. His partner in the jailbreak is a guy named Scott Bolton. He didn't do so well.

No? He fell and suffered internal injuries and broken bones when he slipped off the rope there and plummeted during the descent. Seventy fucking feet to the ground. I think he fell about 50 feet. It's not good. Wow. He was in critical condition. They had to airlift him out and everything.

You're going to die, man. Now, Bolton has a fun record. He walked away from a prison work release program in 2001 and spent almost three years as a fugitive. Wow. Where during which time he stole 70 ATVs. What? Valued at over $600,000.

70 ATVs. Each one. Every day? Yeah. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day.

Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. he stole 70 ATVs valued at over $600,000. 70 ATVs. Each one, every day he took one? Kept stealing them. I guess he was probably selling them to people. I mean, there's a big market for those because people don't take them on the road.

Yeah, and you can chop them up, dude. Yeah. Make a homemade one. If you're using it in the woods in your backyard, no one's ever gonna check that. So yeah, while on the run He eluded capture several times including a close call in which he ran barefoot through the woods And then jumped into the Susquehanna River to escape

Impressive and he was finally captured in September and then in October. They're trying to escape. That's how bad prison is shit They're trying to escape. That's how bad prison is shit Swim a river to not go and then fucking fall out a window also So, um, yeah police immediately upon the escape now He's fucking so Lenski's gone you go took off gone. They catch Bolton, but you goes off Police notify so Lenski's family members of the Krakowski family and others associated with him of the escape. Hey, heads up by the way. They thought they were seeking out family and friends and questioning them in hopes of finding where the fuck he is.

Now Hugo's half brother Ronald here, the press talked to him and he was like, Jesus Christ man, what do I say here? He said, quote, if he's innocent, he's going to be proven innocent. This just makes it worse. He should just turn himself in. He says he worries that the cops are gonna shoot Hugo. That's how this is gonna end, because he's a fugitive.

He said they don't know him, they hear all these things, they see him, even if he's not armed, someone might take a shot at him. Which is fair. So they're searching for Hugo, and this is a fun article here. The headline is, In Darkness, a Grim Search is Launched.

From a newspaper. And it says, Wilkes-Barre fire captain Chris Hughes didn't need to think about it. You want the knife on? Asked firefighter Robert Steininger, helping Hughes suit up to look for escapee Hugo Solinsky. Yes, he answered immediately. In second, Steininger helping Hughes suit up to look for escapee Hugo Selensky? Yes, he answered immediately. In a second, Steininger had the sheathed

knives secured to Hughes' upper right arm. It was about 1.30 a.m. Saturday, more than three hours since Selensky rappelled down the side of the county correctional facility. Hughes was already in his wetsuit and at the Nisbet Park boat launch on the Susquehanna River with the city's hovercraft. The knife is standard equipment he said in case a rope needs to be cut for example, but a police officer carrying his pistol said that yeah we're keeping this too though don't worry I got this just in case. They said isn't a river rescue. This is a search so They I guess they said that they've been at the boat launch since about midnight waiting to know when we're going out They said with the deployment order came down

Hughes was told he would take a police officer with him use had one request bring a small guy because weight makes the hovercraft hard to maneuver. We're looking in water, not first, what are we looking for? Going up and down the river bank looking for him in the water. So they got somebody there, he tells them they bring a cop in and the fireman told him you're going to get wet, that's a guarantee. So the guy took off his uniform jacket, boots, gun belt, and put on a wetsuit here to protect him from all this shit.

They were suited up and they were doing their thing here. He left his uniform behind but kept his gun. So they're going on and looking for him here. Now relatives here, they're talking about, his relatives are worried. Salensky Sr. here, Ronald, as he tended to yard work in his home here, they also talked to Christina Strom, his girlfriend, who was, they went up to her,

she was walking her dog again. That's all she does is walk her dog. Well, he's just looking for more bodies. Yeah, and so other people said, his ex-girlfriend's mother they advised her even of the escape She said we're fine. He would never come here. That's it now Frank James's brother Randy James Said quote. This is crazy. I thought they were supposed to handle things a little better up there

How can they let someone like him get away? Right. He said, how is he not in a more secure facility? How could you put someone like him in a county prison? That's like a daycare for this guy. I don't know. We put him 70 feet in the air. I mean, we didn't expect that. That's a, there actually was a fuck up on their part, though,

where they didn't talk about it. Yeah, he was near a window with 70 feet of bedsheet. That's a big change. Well, no, he had to gather that. Yeah, it was quite the plot here. Yeah. Really? Yeah, it wasn't all his bedsheet.

He got people to help him. So yeah, they said that, how could you put someone in county prison? And James said he hopes to keep the information from his mother, who's been upset with the slow pace of the investigation already. He said, she sees her son's not getting justice, now this maniac's on the loose. So residents are also pissed or rather live around the jail.

They're like what the fuck? This is ridiculous. One said quote, we live by the prison so you think it's safe here. Huh? What? What's that now? Look around the prison. Every time you're near a prison, there is a sign that says, do not pick up hitchhikers

because they might get out of here. Look at the aerial view on Zillow of housing prices right around a prison. Not quite as high as if you get away from the prison sub. They tend to drive pricing down. I figured the place they keep all the criminals would be the safest place to live next door to, right? Which it would because they're gonna take off and run past your house to get away from here.

Yeah, they wanna get away from this. But they're people of opportunity and if there's a house or a car right there, they're gonna try and hurt people and take it. Oh, we've heard of that before in cases we've had where they break into a house right by there. He said, this person said, obviously, it's not that safe. They took the entire window out.

You think someone would have heard. And how do you hide a bunch of bedsheets? One guy says, it goes to show the prison isn't well secured. Another neighbor learned of the prison break when she came home from dinner Friday and saw a yellow police tape near the prison. She said, yeah, why would you not, how would you not be aware of someone in break when she came home from dinner Friday and saw a yellow police tape near the prison. She said, yeah, why would you not, how would you not be aware of someone having that many

bed sheets? Right. Now, um, how he collected the sheets also played on one guy's mind here. Frederick Hopps is a neighbor who previously was incarcerated at this jail. Yeah. And he said, how did these men avoid detection from patrolling guards? He said that he believes the men must have had help from other inmates or someone else inside the prison to collect the sheets needed for their escape. He said, you're issued,

you're issued two bed sheets when you go in more or less, if you put your name on them, they go to the laundry and back and that's it. Those are your sheets. So other residents said the same thing. They said, quote, it was too easy for him to get away. It had to be somebody on the inside. And one person said, let him head over to Manhattan, to the rock, let him get out of there. He'd be shark bait.

Okay, I guess Rikers or Alcatraz. They want to send him to. Alcatraz is the rock, isn't it? Yeah. Is Rikers or is the rock? No. No,raz is the rock. Yeah. Is the rock? No. No, just Rikers. Have him be in that,

the rock over there in New York. Some island prison. No, no, no. It's their version of it, I guess. I don't fuck about it. You people gotta get out more. Wow, this is the back mountain, so we'll get kind of a little bit of break here.

And state police said that they don't know if he's on foot, if there's a vehicle, they don't know what to do here. The state police trooper said, what's to say that Hugo can't change vehicles every 100 miles? We don't know where he is, who the hell knows? But after a week here, or not a week, I'm sorry, three days, he turns himself in.

Oh really? You can't hack it. Yep, he said he turned himself in. About an hour and can't hack it. Yep. He said he turned himself in about an hour and a half later he's going into the jail and a reporter asks him something and he says I wouldn't have missed this trial for anything. He smiles. Really. That's all. He was on the lam until about 8 40 p.m. on Monday. So, three whole days, he made it. When he turned himself in at his own home, he went home to turn himself in. Really?

He probably went home, banged his girlfriend, and then was like, all right, dig me now. I thought I had this all figured out. Turns out I don't. Jesus, well apparently the police got a tip that he was there, so they showed up at the house, but Christina Strom refused to let them search the residence, when she had previously allowed multiple searches.

And now today she's like, no, you can't come in. So about two hours later, the state police said that Hugo's lawyer called, saying that he's ready to turn himself in, basically. So he was arrested at the house at 8.47 p.m. on Monday without any incident. They said that, you know, he surrendered. They said, we pulled in,

he came walking out with his hands up. I'm ready, there you go. And yeah, they said, we left about an hour later. His attorney said he'd meet us there and that's what happened, which is fucking wild, I think anyway. So they said that they're unsure why he specifically requests.

He requested two specific officers, which is weird. Yes, and the lawyer said, I'm not sure why he requested those specific officers. They said, we hadn't discussed it. He said, I'm gonna have to wait and see. I was more concerned just to make sure that no one was injured, no one, that he wasn't injured in any way.

He was wearing Army fatigue pants and a T-shirt. He'd been wearing gray sweatpants when he fled the prison. It's unclear where he got pants from, where he changed. I assume his house, he was in his house, so could have been doing that. State police reached into a pocket of his camouflage Army pants and withdrew a $10 bill, a business card,

several slips of paper containing phone numbers and addresses, and a handwritten note on line paper that had worn at the folds. There's that, all that shit. So he's had some stuff in his pocket. Now, while awaiting arraignment on his two escape charges, he smiled and shrugged and just hammed it up. He said, I'm looking forward to the trial,

that's all there is to it. I'm innocent and that's all there is to it. Then he said, I wouldn't have missed this trial for anything. So they said, though some might say that these escape charges would indicate he was trying to miss the trial, he said, no, absolutely not. That's crazy, just having some fun. So they were saying there was intelligence.

The police said there was intelligence that told us he was in the area. He was probably going to be at the residence. Now, where did he go? What lavish fun did he have? Right. He went to his aunt's house and was hidden in an attic for a day. Is that right? That's one. That sounds better than jail, I guess. I don't know. Mildly. Then he left the house in Pitston after a day,

and court paper shows he was dropped off in a wooded area of the back mountain, and he must have used a car to get there, car left there to make it to his house. Someone must have helped him. So he turned himself into the police anyway, so there we go. Now, reactions.

James's mother found out about it, apparently, the son didn't keep it from her, and the son said she fell to pieces when she learned that he had escaped, and when they were notified he was captured, she said, oh my god, I feel so much better. I was petrified, he was headed for Brooklyn, I couldn't sleep. He said, come kill your family, too?

I don't know, he heard the rocks there, he's not coming there. No way, staying out.. Now how the fuck did he get out of this window? Yeah. That's something interesting. Well the jail window wasn't fixed after the last escape in 1989. It's been almost 20, 15 years. Yep. It's crazy they said that this it had happened in 89 a guy named Cecil Robbins had used tried to escape from the same cell in 89 And they said the window was too small too thin Poorly installed and secured with only cock after this guy had fucked it up the first time He just popped it out

That's all So they viewed the cell block and said the mattresses in a double homicides So they viewed the cell block and said the mattresses in a double homicides Suspect cell here had a large slit in it making it possible for him to hide the 12 sheets He used to shimmy from the prison seventh. I was gonna say where do you hide sheets? I guess you could tuck them into your mat like you do They said yeah, they're big yeah It's not like a little bag of fucking coke or something you put in your pocket. And only one sheet, in addition to the four sheets

in his cell, were unaccounted for in the entire cell block. Wow. They said accountability is definitely lacking, and they say that also a shank was reportedly found in his cell, and that was material from an electrical outlet that could have been used to scrape the caulking from the window. Okay.

He's got a little piece of metal from that and scraped out that shit. So the captain at the prison, Al Ottensman, said that this will lead to security changes. He said that they changed the policies. Some security I can't talk about, but the sheets we found out that they threatened a lot of those inmates,

especially the meek ones. They were just bullying people for their sheets. It was like, I thought you'd get raped in prison, not have your sheet taken, what the fuck, this is weird. Give me your sheets or I'll rape you. They cut eight and got their sheets. So they said, so we changed having their names actually printed on some of them.

So now you know. Now, is there gonna be escape charges? Well, one of the charges is dismissed on a technicality because the bedsheets used to repel from the prison cell are admissible here. And prosecutors say the prison escape shows his consciousness of guilt. So they're holding off on the escape charges till after the murder charges, because the bedsheets are admissible evidence in the murder case

multiple murder cases now russin patrick russin pleads guilty To third degree murder which I didn't even know that was what third degree Man-slaughter, I think that's just you were in the same city when it happened third day. I don't even know what that is For Rudy and red man here but Hugo is going on trial for the murders of Frank James and a diakeel er so the defense attorney said the best way to summarize the story that Pat the rat Russin concocted here old Pat the rat claiming Hugo lured the drug dealers into his home and then shot and killed him. He said, quote, Patrick Russen's a liar.

That's my explanation. Lies. Even though they were in my client's yard. He said that the prosecution's case against him is littered with lies. It's all lies. He said there's no evidence that Hugo drove these two guys around Wilkes-Barre then back to his home here the day that they were killed. He said there's no evidence He said that a bloody a bloody shooting occurred at the home

Although there is flesh on a garage door And they're on my garage door and they're burnt corpses and fucking Clothes and snoop dog jeans and shit So he also said there's no evidence that a massive fire burned the two bodies at the home days after the slayings He said no neighbors saw it. So how is there a fire? Well, there's fucking a fire pit with burnt bones in it So at some point there's a fucking fire, right? Unless you jug a fire pit and then we're like throw out a burnt bones in there But don't let a fire like that wouldn't make any sense

So they said there is evidence though of russin is the one that brought the shotgun over there. There's also evidence that Russin received special treatment in prison, including pay for no work and special visits in return for his cooperation with investigators. He said all that evidence will lead to an acquittal. They said there was reasonable doubt in his story. Reasonable doubt equals not guilty, the attorney says. So physical evidence here.

They said they had not been able to find the rake used in the burn pit, the state says, only the shovel. Totally innocent. The defense attorney also inquired as to why some state troopers could not testify where some items were specifically found despite having control of the property for more than a month and they said did you look for any hair fiber fingerprints spit or any type other type of bodily fluid that may have produced any type of

DNA evidence and he said that he the cop said I don't know I'm unsure I gotta check the search warrant I don't know what the fuck the lab does. What do I know? I'll check the warrants and see. Patrick Russen here is the star witness, obviously. He testified that Slensky called his younger brother to borrow the shotgun and he said there's no record of such a call to Ron Jr. though from the phone that Hugo would have used. Even though there's that. They said cell phone records don't lie Mr. Russin, people lie. Is this when you want to say oops?

And Russin said I never made an oops, I didn't lie. And Russin, he could have used any other phone on Earth except his phone. That's all it is. Russin is the only eyewitness to the shooting obviously, which usually there's no eyewitnesses to murder. Sure. So, Hugo's brother testifies that Hugo never called to borrow the shotgun.

He said, they said, was there a time when you loaned that shotgun to Patrick Russon? And he said, yes. When you loaned the shotgun to Patrick Russen, was he in the presence of Hugo? He said, not that I remember. And they said, do you know why he borrowed the gun? He said, he said something about skunks running around Hugo's house and was worried they were gonna keep spraying Hugo's dogs.

So that's no evidence of him being there, being around the gun. Then they talked to James' girlfriend, Frank James' girlfriend, the one who was allegedly driven to a Rite Aid and then home here. She said she was their first witness, the prosecution, and after rehashing the version of the story, she admitted to lying to police the first time she spoke

about James' disappearance. Now, the story I told you is the real story she told of what happened, but she didn't say that at first. She said it was 26 days after James disappeared. The cops talked to her and she said she immediately told police James picked her up from the hospital himself in his Maroon Nissan and never mentioned anybody else. She said she lied because she figured her boyfriend was in trouble. And that's why he was trying to run away. and that's why I haven't seen him in a month

because he's in trouble and now the cops are asking about him so I'm gonna put them on another trail. That's all. She said she was trying to cover for them even though she already called prisons, morgues, and hospitals trying to track him down. She said I figured I'd try to cover for him. Then some time later during the Hugo Solensky investigation, she told police that Solensky was the guy who picked her up at the hospital in a white Honda. So, yeah.

So they said nobody, they said that no one saw him with the men at the pharmacy. So he didn't go in with her to pick up the prescription. So she could be lying, is what the defense said. They said no, the defense attorney said nobody but Pat Russin sees James and Keeler go with Hugo. The white Honda was seized and police found fingerprints inside it. None of them belong to either Red Man Rudy or the the recently birth given woman either, the girlfriend. So they questioned also the pharmacy's record indicates her prescription was picked up at

eight that day by someone else instead of 430 when she said she was there. She said she couldn't remember if she waited for the prescription at 430 and wasn't sure who picked up the prescription. So the defense attorney challenged her credibility and said, quote, you're going to have to judge credibility to the jury. So watch and listen. And so there's that. You go culp who lives a hundred feet from the house is there in a trailer. He said nothing about seeing massive fires on the property.

He said, I didn't see any fucking fr friars fires definitely not on May 14th Anyway, which we think the fires happen on like May 7th. So Yeah, they said did you hear any gunshots in the night in question? Oh, that's the other bodies. I'm sorry That was oh no, they disappeared then too. So it would have been the same thing So they said did you hear any gunshots in the night in question? And he said none he could remember and they also said So they said, did you hear any gunshots in the night in question? And he said none he could remember. And they also said, police found no evidence besides what we said, the minuscule amount of flesh

on a garage door, which is enough to me. I mean, if somebody's skin. Flesh is on my garage door? Yeah. Yeah. That person's probably hurt somewhere Yeah, that's like the Brian Coburger thing or they have they have the one piece of DNA The touch DNA on the on the knife sheath that was at the murder scene

Like under the dead girl's body and one of the dead girl's bodies and he's saying well, that doesn't mean anything Well, I don't know my My DNA is in no murder scenes, again. That means a whole lot. Yeah, how'd you get it there? You better have a pretty goddamn good explanation for how that got there. Your DNA is on the knife sheath of a knife underneath a body that's been stabbed to death.

Among other bodies stabbed to death. Dude, you're in a lot of trouble. Now, outside the court, things aren't all bad for Hugo. Among other body staff Now outside the court things aren't all bad for Hugo Okay, you guys inside court. It's not looking good, but outside the court. He's got a fan club now really oh Yeah, the ladies ladies love Hugo really LLCh ladies love cool. Hugo. That's what he is. Yeah, he, they love him. It's wild. This article says, ludicrous as it may sound, Hugo Solinsky is a babe magnet. Women in offices and bars across Luzerne County describe him as sexy. They love him. Some female courthouse

employees have even popped into the courtroom during jury selection to ogle him, perhaps locking eyes with his blue eyes. People obsessed with Zelensky and the case have even branded Hugoists on one of the many internet chat rooms created in his honor, some featuring his picture. Court employees are ogling Hugoists. Coming on in to have a look at this guy

Here's here's like one of the comments from a website or you know, one of the local newspaper websites following the whole case Quote I personally agree that if you go did to kill two drug dealers that he did the world a favor He doesn't really look like a killer in my opinion he is pretty hot exclamation point oh well that just why don't we just release him then baby it's pretty hot people let's just uncuff the you got any extra bed sheets for him because i bet he'll be using so i mean oh jesus bundy killed how many 30 women and didn't believe. How many women didn't buy it? They're like, he didn't do it. Oh my God.

That first, that trial, they talked to those women outside and they're like, we don't think he did it because that's crazy, he's too handsome. Okay. So they go on to say, such Hugo buzz might leave the guys scratching their head and wondering what's wrong with women. We do the same shit.

How many guys wanted to fuck Casey Anthony? It's ridiculous. One high ranking county law enforcement employee speaking on the condition of anonymity said he's baffled how a man on trial for two shotgun slaying can mesmerize women and even some men. He said he's our Charlie Manson, our David Koresh. Jesus. County minority commissioner Stephen A. Urban says he's heard several women around the

courthouse call Hugo hot. Unbelievable. While Zelensky's looks and Awshuk's grin undoubtedly woo some, his appeal probably won't go beyond the physical description, says Sheila Eisenberg, author of Women Who Love Men Who Kill. That's a very specific book. Jesus. Research from her book, very specific, niche, the niche audience there.

Research from her book showed some women indeed our culture as a whole worship macho men, quote unquote. They said guns symbolize today's tough guys, whether the shooter is an officer of the law or a bad ombre It's an extremely macho thing to kill someone and there's a certain segment of women who are turned on by that Yeah, we've noticed that we've seen that lately and they said also his 2003 prison escape being so daring using a Rope of bedsheets probably elevated this for some women

She said it's the Robin Hood thing, the escape from authorities, the I'm going to get my freedom. How many times do we see that on TV where some guy leaps out unhurt? This proves he's young, vigorous, has muscles, and all that stuff we venerate in our culture. Survive.

He can crawl 70 feet from bedsheets. That's impressive. That's ripped. I mean, Jesus, imagine how good he can clean the yard up after that. You know how to think about it. But he'd throw me over his shoulder and take me right to the bedroom.

Wow. Amazing. So they said, surviving unscathed is the key, she said. Because then he looks like a big guy. Solensky's partner in the escape, cellmate Scott Bolton, fell and landed on the county prison's roof, suffering injuries and leaving him paralyzed from the waist down. Doesn't have a fan club for him, dude.

Not going to be stealing any ATVs anytime soon. Eisenberg said he's not being described as sexy. I'm sure nobody's writing to him. He's in a fucking wheelchair. A failure in a wheelchair is the way they look at him, whereas this guy's cool. You slag motherfucker. God. Selensky received piles of fan mail, some of it rather intimate during his time at the

State Correctional Institution at Dallas. He's been asked to be featured in a song by a punk band, and has been asked to be featured in an author's book. A picture he said he received from the Philadelphia 76ers cheerleaders read What? Roses are red, violets are blue, hurry up and get out, we're all waiting for you What the fuck is happening? You can fuck free men that are very wealthy, that are right in front of you, literally

The cheerleaders for the 76ers. The whole squad wants to fuck one man. Alan Iverson's not around? What are you doing? Unbelievable. What are you talking about? Guys can dunk from the foul line and you're interested in this guy with his bed sheets? You're looking for a guy that shotgun blasts people and buries 12 in his fucking yard. Wow.

Eisenberg, who'd been interviewed on many national TV programs about the subject of intimate relationships Said her research found that many women who pursue relationships with killers behind bars want someone they can try to save or reform Oh, yeah other other simply find bad guys a turn-on. There's that often the women were abused Well, yeah women who want this is there probably didn't have a great. We're first. Where's your dad first question? Yeah, where's your dad? What prison was he in what when did he leave and never see you again like let's talk about it When did he beat the shit out of you? What's going on? So she said if he's in for life? He's safe Eisenberg said he can't abuse her she's in control of the relationship and we do get that alive you watch love after lock up

That's men and women with that have someone on the inside. It's because they control everything right they control How much money they have how much everything or is gonna be on the outside blowing everybody? Once they get on the outside. It's a little different So they go on to say nevertheless these women usually get actively involved in their inmate's case and fight to get him out. She said, though, the relationship would likely fizzle outside confinement. Yeah. So said if there's no way to dispute an inmate's involvement in the crime, the women make excuses to justify or rationalize his involvement, such as an act being accidental, provoked

or drug induced, she said. Perhaps some women want to link with Solinsky because he's somewhat of a celebrity, she said also. She said, Solinsky's got national coverage when he tried to escape, so women may reach out because they want some of that fame. They said though, Eisenberg believes Solinsky would still attract admirers even if he wasn't so photogenic.

She's mentioned John Wayne Gacy, a serial killer obviously, we know who Gacy is. Who's that ugly fuck? She said Gacy wasn't considered handsome but he still got bombarded with letters from women who wanted to meet him. It's something in the, I don't know what it is, it's the fame, it's important, something. They said, she goes on to say, he was an overweight and physically unattractive guy. What was attractive to some women about him was that he did those murders.

Poof. Eisenberg is interested in talking to Solensky if he is convicted for her new book which aims to find out why certain inmates pursue relationships with women from the outside. Well gee, because they give you money and fucking and it's nice to talk to people who aren't criminal men. Yeah, and who aren't busy doing this bullshit all day. They can tell me stories of things happening out there. You can talk about emotions with them and shit that you can't talk about with guys in fucking prison. And they give you money also for your commissary.

So she found inmates who post their pictures and hobbies on the internet seeking relationships, though it's unlikely they'll ever get out. We know all about that from the prisoner dating game on Patreon. One woman regularly attends Salinski's court proceedings, passing him mints through deputy sheriffs and taking notes. See if he wants an altoid. Mints. Mints. How is that allowed? Those could be drugs. You don't know what that is. That's fucking crazy. She has declined to comment to the media. Can't put anything in his fucking mouth. That's fucking crazy.

She has declined to comment to the media. Eisenberg got her idea for women who love men who kill when she saw a newspaper photo of a fairly attractive young blonde standing with a New York City man who was about to stand trial for murdering his second wife. That blonde was described as his fiance. Wow.

Was that the other Peterson? I don't know, who knows who that could be, anybody. She said, I wondered why a woman would want to get involved with a guy accused of murder. Yeah, I would wonder that myself, but I think we know. She said, not everyone in the Hugo internet chat rooms and blogs is enamored with him. When someone posted on one site saying

Solinsky is very attractive and it's hard to picture him doing evil things. The following response was submitted, quote, yes, looks can be deceiving. So it doesn't matter what someone looks like on the outside. Someone on another site said, another site said people really need to find better things to do than rally for the cause of fucking idiots like this, no matter how charismatic or charming they may be. Also during this trial, the mother of a red man here, Adai Keeler, said she approached

Patrick Russon and to thank him for testifying. Really? Yeah, even though he helped dispose of the bodies, at least, that's according to him. She said, I forgive Patrick, and I told him I forgive him. He said, thank you. So, verdict comes in. This is just for the two.

This is Rudy and Redman, and it's called the Rudy-Redman Trial. That's what it's called. And he is found not guilty of murder. How? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I can't imagine how.

Their bodies are at his house, like right there. And there's remains on the garage door. Wow. How? But he is found guilty of burning the bodies though. He's found guilty of desecration of corpse or whatever. Now his aunt said that she was ecstatic about the verdict. This is Hugo's aunt. She said, I'm ecstatic and relieved it's over.

The family has known all along he wasn't guilty. We've stuck by him. There's another murder trial coming up here, by the way. Calm down, lady, yeah. He is sentenced to, for the corpse, whatever, you, sir, may fuck off two to four years in prison That's what he got for that so 2008 cuz that was 2006 that trial

2008 Paul weekly pleads guilty to federal charges And he's serving life sentence and agrees to testify against salinsky for the Krakowski and facet murders Okay, cuz he said he was with him, you know, they did it together. So 2009 here also Solinsky goes on trial again, not for murder, but for a violent home invasion and robbery in the Poconos. Police say back in 2003 before the bodies were found in the backyard he and Paul weekly drove into a broken wood jewelry store in tannersville after breaking into the owner's home and assaulting him so there this is a thing they've been doing a lot yeah he was found guilty on that

charge yeah of doing that and he is sentenced to you sir may fuck off 32 to 65 years For that even died huh no one even died 32. You can't do home invasions. That's no Invasions to that's big into a fucking jewelry store. That's crazy So the Krakowski and fasten trial does not take place until 2015 Wow, that's insane isn't it they have had him does not take place until 2015. Wow. That's insane, isn't it? They have had him since a year after the murder,

and it's taken this long to actually try him. 13 years later. That is insane, dude. So the big question is, is Weekly gonna testify? Paul Weekly, he'd be the star witness. They said his willingness to take the stand has been in question in the run up to this trial He's been attacked in prison multiple times for being a snitch

And an inmate who did time with Salinsky pled guilty last year to trying to for trying to hire a hitman to kill him in prison Holy shit sounds like that came from Hugo The family's still participating and helping. Yep, so days before jury selection, Weekly told prosecutors that he would not testify, but then once trial comes up, he says, okay, fine, because they told him, we're gonna take you back to court.

That's part of your deal, motherfucker. Now you're on trial for murder too, basically. And he was like, okay, fine. So in the openings the prosecutor told the jury what you will hear will shock you will horrify you and will break your heart. He said he's gonna take jurors on a journey through the world of Hugo Zelensky. A journey he's been waiting a long time to take them on. He said that Zelensky blew through $200,000 in 2002, despite only legally earning $187,000.

Okay, I don't know how the hell he legally did that. What was he doing? I don't know. The assist, that would make no sense to me, despite only legally earning 187. We're sniffing around, because he had 13 grand more. That doesn't make any sense.

No, that doesn't make any sense at all. I guess having it handed to him by Krakowski wasn't a crime, I suppose. The assistant DA said that Zelensky took advantage of Krakowski's legal troubles and all of that. It also said Zelensky made it look like Krakowski and fastett fled to avoid sentencing, but instead the prosecutor described the beating and torture and said, imagine the terror, folks. So the defense here, they try to blame Paul Weakley for everything. Like he already admitted to it, so he's a guy who did it.

He said, the defense attorney said, did Hugo kill Kerkowski and Fassett or was it Paul Weakley? He made the case to the jury that weekly had some reason to frame Solenski. He said Paul was jealous of Hugo and wanted him out of the way. Yeah. Jealous of him.

The defense. He's so hot. He's just so hot. How do you not be jealous? It's not fair. I want to murder him. The defense, I want to get him put in prison forever. The defense even told jurors that they will hear testimony

that weekly tried to kill Solenski on two occasions They point out to the jury the many inconsistencies in his story to police and prosecutors As he was interviewed 15 times since the prosecution began over a 13 year period So yeah, there's gonna be some stories conflicting there, which is why you don't want to wait that long There's going to be some stories conflicting there, which is why you don't want to wait that long. The defense said that Salensky didn't need all that money because his girlfriend had good jobs at the time. She had $400 in her checking account and you couldn't pay the closing costs, so you apparently did need money. They said, where did that money come from? Tina Strahm, that's where.

So the defense acknowledged that Salensky was getting money from Krakowski, but that said Slensky had no reason to kill him He said why would you kill the goose that was laying the golden eggs? Yeah, he said that he Hugo may have tried to help Krakowski flee, but he didn't kill him He helped him flee and then somehow he ended up buried in his yard. It's the weirdest thing He got away and came back and killed himself in my yard. So crazy. So there's a jailhouse conversation with his father and brother where you go seemed very nonchalant about all this shit. All these murder charges. He says, I absolutely deny all the charges, but if I did do it, who gives a fuck? He's recorded saying that. I mean, a lot of people give a fuck. You go, There's about 12 people in that box over there.

Yeah. A guy in a robe sitting up there. A couple people went to law school for a few years. I bet those vaginas dry up if you didn't do it. Yeah right. Oh really? Damn. So Hugo laughs on one of the days in court because, oh yeah, at one point he turned to his right,

smiled at his defense attorney, then removed his glasses and used his hands to cover his mouth in an attempt to disguise his laughter. What the hell? This happened during the minute or more it took state trooper Edward Urban to remove a makeshift rope of bedsheets from a brown evidence bag because he's pulling it out like a magician and it's taken so fucking long that you go starts laughing eventually because it's kind of funny clown pulling those yellow red blue right out of their sleeve people laugh at that because it's ridiculous so is this it is. It's kind of funny. That took so long to tie those knots.

That's kind of hilarious. The bedsheets were in one piece and an avalanche of evidence prosecutors as part of an avalanche of evidence this day. So that's fucking funny. Wow. So they cross-examine the neighbor. Yeah.

Who says she saw people driving away from Krakowski's house, that one. And she said she was near and far-sighted Yeah, who says she saw people driving away from Krakowski's house that one and She said she was near and far sighted Both required the use of glasses and that there were obstructions from her vantage point looking out the window when she saw Hugo this is my cousin Vinnie. This is the lady with the glasses going their shit all over your screens dirty I think it's time. I think it's time for, what is it, time for thicker glasses. Thicker glasses. She said they keep getting thicker. She said, I think it's time for

thicker glasses. What do you think now, dear? I think it's time for thicker glasses. Now the trial counsel gauged her ability to identify by showing her a picture and asking questions regarding that and whether or not she could accurately see what was going on outside her window. So her testimony is shaky at best. I'm near and far. You can't see shit and there's a tree in my face. God damn it.

So weakly is the big witness. He testifies here and demonstrates in court how he and solinsky bound the victims with zip ties and took turns Torturing the kirkowski to find out where he had hidden the money and he like gets down on the floor and does a demonstration So that's that's rough. That's damning when you see somebody going through the motions He testified that Hugo showed him a shoe box in March 2002 with approximately 60 to 80 thousand dollars cash inside What size are those shoes? Jesus? Those people's big ones Shacks shoe box whose shoe box do you have there and inside that? Inside there Hugo said that Krakowski paid for him quote for sir paid him quote for services

He was providing for mr. Krakowski paid for him quote for sir paid him quote for services. He was providing for mr Krakowski Weekly stated that the amount of money he testified to was only an estimate and he was never able to physically count the money He said he agreed to help Solinsky and they plotted to rob Krakowski kill him and dispose of the body to make it look like he'd have that fled to avoid prison He's like, it's perfect him and the cash disappears. Everyone thinks he fled. Weekly said, quote, I thought it was a pretty good idea. Oh boy.

Yeah. He said when he arrived at Krakowski's home, the girlfriend was there too. They didn't expect that, apparently. He said that wasn't part of the plan, but he and Solensky agreed that she was just going to be a victim of the crime too now. How was that?

Yeah. Weekly took her to an upstairs bedroom and bound her with flex ties Weakly said quote. She asked me why we were doing this. She was scared out of her mind He said he reassured her they were only interested in robbing Kerkowski and that she would be fine Yep, weakly said he bound her with flex ties and duct tape Covered the eyes with duct tape of kirkowski Beat him with a rolling pin and choked him until he told the location of sixty thousand dollars in cash then weekly had led the police to the property and north of Wilkes-Barre and

That was the day that you, that the bodies were found. They also recalled Thursday that workmen, another witness recalled that workmen were setting up a tent for the party when a convoy of police showed up at the house and the sister testified, he immediately looked at me and said, oh my God, they're looking for bodies. He was very shocked.

Now one of the weekly things here is did he get a deal? He claims on the stand he received no benefit for his testimony. That's the claim. Now yeah, he is testifying on direct examination that he received a federal sentence of life in prison, imprisonment for these murders that they're trying Hugo for, and that he'd been promised absolutely nothing for his testimony. But apparently he was getting some benefits. He was moved out of solitary confinement when he began cooperating,

and he was not charged with taking his one-time cellmate, Francis McBride, hostage during an escape attempt. Wasn't charged for that. So everyone's trying to escape here. This is crazy. They questioned Weekly regarding his evolving falsehoods through the course of these interviews, including lies that he was not present when the murders occurred

on some of his stories and only assisted in reburying the bodies at the property and that Patrick Russin and Kerkowski's ex-wife were involved in the murders. He said that at one point, that Kim was involved. Yeah. Okay. That was one of his stories.

See, that's literally 15 different stories. So there's a lot of variation here. He admitted on cross-examination to being a quote liar with a record of various criminal convictions that he added various details to his accounts to make them more believable as well. You know, lying. That's how, you know, liars do.

Wow. So apparently that was that. The trial counsel, I could have, I guess, presented evidence that a search of Weekly's residents uncovered bomb-making equipment disguises a how-to murder manual. What? Oh, yeah All these things were found in his shit. Also, I believe if I'm not mistaken There's some child pornography involved in this with him, too Yeah, he said Salensky then ratcheted a flex tie around Krakowski's neck as tight as it could possibly be

Quote-unquote and that killed him and then he said that slensky went upstairs and killed Tammy facet And he doesn't know what happened up there except that he must have killed her He said weekly said he kept about forty thousand dollars slensky got twenty thousand and they buried the bodies So he gave the helper more than he got why wouldn't he just split it thirty thirty? Hugo's little sister then testifies to what she said before that she was never Hugo's little sister then testifies to what she said before that she was never Like take so told she couldn't go on certain parts of the property. Nothing was off-limits

She could ride the ATVs around and all that kind of thing now Another thing that could have came up here is you go keep saying that weekly was obsessed with Hugo's family and gave his 12 year old sister gifts, which he thinks would undermine the credibility to have to, you know, obviously if he was trying to pick up a 12 year old, no one would believe him. Hugo's brother testifies to about some phone calls and that kind of thing. Now there's witnesses not called that he's very upset about here. They didn't call Trooper Gerald Satchney, who investigated the Samuel Guse robbery to testify to the following information

he learned during the investigation that witnesses saw an OZmobile or Buick pulling away from Guse's house rather than a white Honda. Blood found at Guse's house matched Weakley, not Hugo. A hair on a glove in Weakley's car did not match Weakley, Hugo, or Gusei. Certain unbesified DNA did not match Weakley, Gusei, or Hugo. Weakley sold jewelry from the Gusei robbery along with coins, presumably stolen in another robbery. There are two other suspects stolen in another robbery.

There are two other suspects named in the robbery and that weekly admitted to smoking a cigarette with Gousei. Hugo contends that the troopers testimony would have challenged Gousei's credibility and that and Hugo's involvement in the murders. As they bring this guy that they robbed on the stand to to describe it. That's the guy said that he said they all smoke cigarettes afterwards. So verdicts come in here. Now the charges against Solinsky are two counts of criminal homicide,

two counts of criminal conspiracy to commit criminal homicide, one count of criminal solicitation to commit criminal homicide, two counts of robbery, two counts of criminal conspiracy to commit robbery, one count of theft. Heavy. Heavy.

Heavy. The jury deliberates for over a two day period for 11 hours. Really? Yes they do and may find him guilty. Okay. Yeah, on all charges except conspiracy to commit robbery on Tammy Fassett and solicitation of murder on Kerkowski.

Somehow he's not guilty of those two. Not sure. Doesn't matter. Those are lesser charges than the ones we have. And they're still aggravators to the others because all the conspiracy charges, except for those two are in there. And the robbery of his parents is fucking disgusting. Yeah, that's awful. He went to these poor people's house. Yeah. He went to these people's house. That's awful. He went to these poor people's, yeah. He went to these people's houses, they were like 75 years old.

And told them that he needs money. That's crazy. And then just said, give me the money, come and shoot you. So. Right. Now Hugo's brother, his brother Ronald, here, Ronald Jr., the one that testified, apparently following family members of the victims

and prosecutors to the elevator after the verdict is read, apparently an affidavit filed said that Ron pointed his hand in the shape of a gun at the prosecutor and detective and said, you, I'm gonna get you. Ron. In a courthouse, he did this. And they arrested him right then, right? He was immediately arrested, handcuffed,

and taken away by court deputies. Yeah, you can't do that. He was charged with disorderly conduct and making terroristic threats. And yeah, he was released on his own recognizance. But you can't do that. No. Now, during sentencing, Kerkowski's mom, Geraldine,

read from a prepared statement. She said, he knew he killed my son. And for a year, he was out at our door looking for money, trying to make us believe that Michael was still alive. He kept coming home, Michael needs help, he's over here. Michael took off. And they didn't wanna know, so they didn't know. She said, and that just hurts to think

that we were played for such fools. I know I can be satisfied knowing you will spend eternity suffering in hell because you know there is going to be an eye for an eye. Hugo you know you will be right where you belong in hell with Satan because you are the devil in every sense of the word. Wow, she went hard. So mitigating factors here.

Well he's got daughters so they bring his kids up there. Four of his sisters spoke, saying they loved him. They called him an intelligent and caring man who's protective of his family. A college student and Solinsky's daughter, Madeline, said that she sent, that he sent her letters with, quote, big words to broaden my vocabulary, asking her to look the words up and use them in sentences to show she understood their meaning. He told her to avoid alcohol until she turned 21. Oh, that's good. So let's let him go.

Don't drink. I'm a good dad. Wow. His two younger sisters, both nursing students in their twenties, called him a father figure who briefly took care of them more than a dozen years ago while their dad who is now deceased was ill. They said I wouldn't be who I am today without him. Another sister Ruth said that Silenskys sends artwork to her children, some of it painted with Kool-Aid and coffee, and then he tells them to scratch and sniff. Smells like prison.

Jizz. You said, she said, God, no matter what, I will always want my children to know of Uncle Hugo. Well, here we go. The judge definitely knows of Uncle Hugo. And he says, you, sir, Uncle Hugo may fuck off, consecutive life terms together, two of them back to back,

plus a maximum of 120 years on top of that as well. I don't think he's gonna get out, man. Ensuring that what the judge said that Salinsky will quote, never again walk the streets of this Commonwealth or this community. Yeah, put him in Rapunzel's tower with or this community. Yeah. Yeah. Rapunzel's tower with no bedsheets. No bedsheets.

I wonder if he's still hot. How hot are you now? Also the escape charges finally from way back then he pleads guilty to the escape charges because they finally use the evidence, the bedsheets, and was sentenced separately to a maximum of three years and five months in prison, which is time already served. So he got nothing for that. Doesn't matter. He's in jail for two lives plus 120 years.

Now he does an interview. He kept saying from the time he got caught from the time going into court, he kept saying, I'm not going to talk now. I'll talk when all this is over. I promise I'll give you interviews when all this is over. And he actually does. This is right after the sentencing. And he says, quote, as far as the verdict, it's hard to say I respect the verdict.

I'll live with it. I stand by my innocence. Okay. He says it's been a trying time for his family. He said, I'm in the hole. It's a miserable experience and it's harder for my family. He said that with the trial, there's many things he'd do differently.

At the top of the list is his decision not to testify. Really? Should have done that. He said, not testifying was a glaring mistake. I should have got on the stand. Somebody on that jury was holding out. I believe I could have convinced the others had I gotten on the stand. Which if you got on the stand. Somebody on that jury was holding out. I believe I could have convinced the others had I gotten on the stand.

Which if you got on the stand, then it's your word against Weekly's word. So if you can present a better self than Weekly, you got a chance. And you can say whatever you want in your defense. The bummer's gonna be when they get to question that. And you don't wanna do that. No, you don't wanna do cross with that shit.

That's gonna be ugly. That's why he didn't testify. In his opinion, he explained that the jury went the wrong way thanks to his former partner in crime, Paul Weekly. He said, I have a very unhealthy dislike for Paul Weekly. You know, the type that makes you allegedly hire someone to hire a hitman and to kill him in jail.

You know, that kind of. So Solinsky believes without Weekly's testimony testimony he would have been acquitted. I don't think so. I really don't. I really don't think so. You got bodies in your yard, man. You got bodies in your yard. He got his parents saying that he fucking, you know, was coming over extorting them for money. All this type of shit. Wow. Weekly didn't do that. You did that. That's what I mean. He said throughout both trials, even the one he was acquitted in he said that he was misrepresented

He said I'm portrayed as a vicious villain and that's wrong. I have people who love me. I'm not a monster I'm fighting for my life and I'm gonna continue to fight So that's the definition if people love you you can't be a monster and if you keep fighting. Yeah, so that's nice BTK You're fine. Your family loved you, you're good. At the end, ridiculous. At the end of the conversation, he reiterated his innocence when asked how the bodies

of Tammy Fassett, Michael Krakowski, and at least three others ended up in his fucking yard. He said, quote, that's a question I'd like an answer to. Oh, would you? Yeah, would you? I'm wondering the same thing. I've been wondering that since 2002. Wow.

Oh my god. The price tag for his defense in this trial was $517,351. And who paid that? That's not him. He didn't have any fucking money for that, the county or whatever, the state, out of somebody. So he appeals, obviously, get him an appeal. He appeals on several factors. I'll give them quickly here. One is ineffective assistance of counsel. We knew that was coming. He was setting that up in his jailhouse

interview right away. He says that the counsel was ineffective for not rebutting Weekly's claim that he received no benefit for trial testimony. He said he did get out of solitary and he got out of trying to hold a guy hostage in an escape attempt for that. So the court says though that this claim fails as it lacks arguable merit. Attorney Brown elicited testimony from Weekly on cross-examination that his plea agreement provided that charges related to several robberies and possession of child pornography were dropped. They dropped his child porn charges. Really?

He's in for life in federal prison, that's why. So yeah, so this guy's a scumbag. You were hanging, I'm sorry, Hugo, either way you're hanging out with child porn scum. Like, fuck. You're hanging out with dudes attracted to kids, so you got a bad judge of character, man. I was trying to fuck your sister, fuck. Hanging out with dudes attracted to kids, so you got a bad character, man. It was trying to fuck your sister, allegedly.

So man, part of his federal plea agreement has also agreed not to prosecute him for the instant murders, which could have led to a potential death sentence. Also that they should have challenged that neighbor, that old lady neighbor, near and far sighted more. He argued that her overreaching account was not challenged enough by trial counsel and that she should have been asked by various questions

on cross-examination including why she contradicted her deposition testimony that her children were of elementary school age by testifying at trial that they were in junior high and high school. Well Christ by the time the trial came they were fucking had high and high school. Well, Christ, by the time the trial came, they were fucking had careers and three kids for Christ's sake. I got 401Ks. Wow. They further note here, he does Hugo, that the trial counsel did not call into question

this witnesses improbable testimony that she was working at her desk in her home by the window and yet somehow was paying close enough attention to what was happening outside her window to see him. He posits that trial counsel should have asked her why she continued to stare with locked eyes at him despite the fear this aroused in her and what because when people are scared they look at things. Right. That's how they do it. You can tell a lot of times when you see an interrogation, you see somebody with their eyes locked on the interrogator. That's like a predator prey thing.

That's it. Yeah prey thing. That's you're keeping them in your sight because you're scared of them. So that's that's actually a thing. But they said that she should have done that. Also, why she did not tell police about this memorable episode, notwithstanding the fact that she kept a journal at the request of Krakowski's mother of the comings and goings from the house beginning on May 3rd 2002 they said lawyers should have also attacked the Krakowski's mom more as well should have went after you go after the victims mother. That's how you win the murder case You go after the dead guy's elderly mother that'll get the jury on your side

They said though the as was pointed out in a hearing Geraldine Krakowski was in her eighties at the time of the trial of diminutive stature and she had recently lost her husband. So they said probably the attorney said it was their strategy that it wouldn't benefit the defense to disparage an aging widow who's also the mother of a murder victim By trying to accuse her of illegal acts because that's a tough week. Let's let her be. Yeah They said the strategy his attorney said the strategy was to try to get her on and off the stand as quickly as possible Because she's nothing but sympathy so get her the fuck out of there the more you try to attack her the Jury's throwing things at you. I mean, you can't.

Leave the old lady alone. Yeah, they said the attorney further explained that the victim's father was much more involved with the illegal acts than his mother and therefore would have raised the issues with the father if he had been alive, but he wasn't. So he said it would be very difficult to get to the bottom of these issues

through Mrs. Kerkowski. And she could just go, I don't know what you mean, Sonny boy. And then the jury thinks you're a monster. Also that the lawyer should have called Hugo's uncle in. They said the first individual as to which the appellant argues trial counsel is ineffective for failing the calls of witnesses Robert Higdon, his uncle. They say that Higdon would have testified that he had worked for him in the past. Higman had previously lent him money, Hugo money, and that Hugo could have asked Higdon for money in May of 2002 if

he needed and he would have given it to him. With respect to Higdon, the attorney agrees with the trial at the council that the first three factors of the five-part test for ineffectiveness claims related to a figure to call a witness were satisfied. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He did plenty. It's just it was. Some things aren't an effective assistance of council. They're just strategy decisions. That's all there is to it. And also the prosecution's timeline is off.

Remember the 335 o'clock? This one's at seven o'clock. All that bullshit here. So there's that. By the way, they've, so anyway, they tell him fuck off, keep going, appeal denied, obviously. I mean, he's not gonna get off on appeal. No one, yeah, he's got plus two life sentences. Two lives, yeah.

Consecutive. No one has ever figured out who the fifth body was. Are you shitting me? We have no idea who the fifth body was. And we have no idea where the bone fragments are for up to seven more people. We have no idea who they are. What the fuck? Yeah.

Nobody knows. It could be anybody. It could be anybody. Those could be Civil War soldiers. They don't know. They could be, well no, they're burned and in his burn pants. So probably not Let's see dug up Thomas Stonewall Jackson and fucking burned him. I don't think that So

Next up here now. He's in prison. You think the story's over, but it's really not here. I am gonna read An article here. This is about a woman named Felicia Thomas. This is from true crime news calm Okay, I gotta give them credit for this because this is this is legwork that they were doing so I gotta give them credit So here we go. There's a woman here named Pauline who says about Felicia Thomas who is a young lady who has disappeared Said quote. I think she was killed because she came and told us what was going on said, quote, I think she was killed because she came and told us what was going on. The article, I'll just read the article. When it comes to unsolved murders, sleepy towns like this are this one are notorious for wild rumor and innuendo.

But you've never heard anything quite like what you'll hear from locals here in Luzerne County in northeastern Pennsylvania. Everything is in here. Anybody or everything is in here. Anything anybody told us us Pauline said Pauline with the help of family friend Judy Fisher have compiled thick case books full of hundreds of tips leads and newspaper articles about Felicia's disappearance and Pauline won't stop until she learns what happened to her daughter

Felicia was the eldest of seven children just like fucking Hugo look at that and grew up helping mom care for the younger ones They say Felicia still might be around had one of her friends Jennifer bars Lousky bars Lasky another Polish person had not gone missing three years before Hugo Solenski's backyard burial ground was discovered now That she disappeared while Hugo was in prison. Okay. But we'll talk about this.

This is what I mean. A possible link to these other bodies and possible other shit. Felicia was looking for her. She was telling people she was looking for Jen. She literally went out like a fucking detective to find her friend. So they said Felicia became obsessed with finding her.

She wouldn't let it go, Pauline, her mother said. And while playing amateur detective, she may have learned too much for her own good. Enter a guy with two comedians names, which is weird. Steve Alan Martin. Steve Alan is a very famous old comedian and Steve Martin is fucking Steve Martin. So Steve Martin, he goes comedian and Steve Martin is fucking Steve Martin. So Steve Martin he goes by Steve Martin here

She quote. This is Pauline quote. She says I think Steve Martin killed her and buried her in her basement Her own basement, I guess I said Felicia that's so crazy People don't just kill people and bury them in their yards and basements and get away with it I guess in his basement, she might've misspoke. But yeah, imagine that. Steve Martin killed my daughter. Oh, come on now. Steve Martin was the boyfriend of Jennifer's sister

and is said to be a friend of neighbor Hugo Solinsky. What? Yes, this is all connected. This is crazy. This is so deep. We couldn't even get into this because you guys got to all look into this on your own or we got to do a Patreon on Steve Martin or something here. But they said, uh,

trooper Kelly who was involved in all of this shit said he was definitely a person of interest in Jennifer's case. Right from the start, he was the last person to be known to be with her on the day she went missing. Then up to 12 bodies were found on Zelensky's property and authorities thought from the start he was the last person to be known to be with her on the day she went missing. Then up to 12 bodies were found on Zelensky's property and authorities thought Jennifer and another missing girl, 18 year old Cindy Song might be among them. What the fuck is going on? They said it was a case that shocked this area, Trooper Kelly said.

Even though Zelensky would admit he killed, wouldn't admit he killed Cindy song he she was not I guess they're saying that he might have admitted he killed her at some point this Cindy song person after he was convicted she was not counted among the victims because the bodies were burned so badly that the police couldn't say exactly how many there were they said some of them were in a burn pit where the bodies were burned to almost a powder Jesus because he used coal in there, too. He wasn't using yeah coal fire Said some of them were in a burn pit where the bodies were burned almost powder forensic ex Forensics expert experts were only able to identify two and Jennifer was not among them

She's so Pauline said she tried to tell me tried to bring her girlfriend justice and I didn't listen. Then the year after Solinsky's arrest Felicia Thomas goes missing. Yeah. So the friend he was in prison both times that these people went missing here. On the night. His crazy neighbor unfettered access to his property of Barry Byrne. Was his neighbor already doing this before he even moved in? And he showed him how to do it? That's what I mean, did they talk?

How would you get together with Steve Martin to talk about how you both like to kill people and dispose of their bodies? I don't even know how that would come up. They say on the night Felicia vanished, police say she had left work at a convenience store between 1130 and midnight. She went home and her boyfriend was on the couch sleeping, said Trooper Kelly. She woke him up and asked him if he wanted to do

anything. If he wanted if he wanted a beer. I think I've already had a couple I'm sleeping. Yeah. He told her there was something. He wanted to do something. He told her that there was some beer outside on his ATV and that's it. He went back to bed and she was never seen by him again. He was interviewed several times. He's been cooperative with the investigation. So truly no one has ruled out as a suspect at this time and everything he said to us was checked out and appears to be true.

Officer Kelly said Felicia went to a party that night. Quote, when she left that party with Steve Martin and another male and the other male was dropped off and her and Steve Martin continued on their way Felicia Thomas was never to be seen again So Steve Martin was also the last person to see Jennifer borrow bars a law ski before she vanished So they're saying Felicia went to investigate saying she thinks the Steve Martin killed her friend But then she went to a party with him and took a ride from him That's odd It's weird

So Kelly says I think there's a lot of peculiarities like Steve Martin was the last person to be seen with both people Both people ran with the same circle of friends So they say a massive search is launched, but it appears right from the start to be an impossible mission She went missing in June which is full bloom in our trees in this area Heavy canopy very dense wooded areas caverns ravines creeks dams says Kelly This body gives you this gives you a sense of just how complicated the search has been for Felicia's body The focus has been on these wooded areas and forests punctuated by vast swamplands and muddy creeks The mom Pauline said hundreds of people came out they came out on quads on horseback wooded areas and forests punctuated by vast swamplands and muddy creeks.

The mom Pauline said hundreds of people came out. They came out on quads, on horseback. Everyone was really trying to help. When the official search was called off after two months, Felicia's family keeps going out on their own and looking for her. Then by accident, a pair of teenagers out riding SUVs, ATv's atvs in a ravine Yeah found quote one of them observed to be what he believed was a skull. Oh Was forensics came back It's a human skull quote both the dental records and DNA on the skull came back to that being Jennifer Barzolowski

Police hoped to find more evidence at the location They said the scene was scoured relentlessly by Forensic Services Unit to come up with more of the remains, but the only thing that was located was that skull. And he said the officer said, quote, I will say that skull was found within one mile of Stephen Allen Martin's home. Oh. Yeah. He said, you'll recall Stephen Martin was the first last person to see them.

Now Pauline suspects Felicia may have been made to disappear because she knew too much police have also considered that story Kelly said for me to say how close she was getting I can't officially say that because we don't know but it's definitely something that's been Tossed around that she had information information allegedly suggesting that Martin and other men had said to have been friends and neighbors of diabolical killer Hugo Solensky may have carrying been carrying on his evil war handiwork after he was locked away Felicia reportedly had a direct connection to Solensky through their live-in boyfriend Eric Rudaski who allegedly took Felicia to a party where Solensky was among the guests Felicia yeah, Felicia had actually part party where Salensky was among the guests.

Felicia had actually partied with Salensky allegedly more than once. One person said the only connection between them is Ed and Steve Martin, they were all friends. Felicia used to go to the parties that Hugo was at, Steve was at with Ed. From all the leads and tips coming in to Judy and Pauline, there emerges one common story allegedly told by many witnesses that adds up to a horrifying account

of what may have happened to Felicia after the party that night. One witness reportedly told Judy, this other person, Steve Martin was there and a couple of other guys were there and they talked Felicia into going into the bedroom to smoke and She went and she said soon there was screaming coming from the bedroom and that the man in the bedroom had a camera They saw a camera go in the room with the one guy and they were scared they were taping and that she was going to be raped

Several others allegedly told Judy that they heard Felicia screaming once once claiming that he got afraid the cops were going to come because of the screaming. He left because he was scared. He thought they were beating her up. Several witnesses said Felicia's boyfriend, Ed Rudaski, was also at the party and in the bedroom despite telling the police he went to bed after Felicia left the house. They say they told him to take a walk and he did take a walk. He left her there to die because he left while she was screaming and he couldn't take it. So another witness allegedly told Judy that several guests saw Felicia's body in the room. She said that when they opened the door that Felicia was wrapped in a blanket and they took her and buried her

So they say how much weight do you put in that this person says well I do know that I wouldn't be telling you this if I didn't confirm it with the state police The state police did get the same story many times But they've dismissed these stories saying they believe whoever's telling these stories were affected by drugs at the time Doesn't matter they were on drugs. So the article goes on to say, I asked state police officer Tom Kelly about claims that snuff films were being made. And is there any truth to these wild rumors? And he said, to my knowledge, no, I have no information or have heard anything about that.

So yeah, he's heard nothing. He said, is that something that's crossed paths of the investigators on this case? Was it something at one time that was being looked into that there might be a snuff group operating? And Kelly said, yes. I mean, if people related the information to investigators, they may have that information,

but me personally, I do not. So you'll recall that Felicia was last seen leaving the party with Steve Martin in a car and with a second unidentified man But despite that fact he was last to see both Felicia and Jennifer police were never able to charge him with the murders But Kelly said Steve Martin was arrested and incarcerated for an unrelated charge and hung himself inside his prison cell quote-unquote I wonder why so there's a lot of signs and inferences that can say maybe he was our guy, but officially we don't have a confession right now,

so it's still unknown. He had to be involved in all this. He was involved in something, right? That's what I'm saying, so wow. So Edward Radasky has not been charged with any wrongdoing and has cooperated with police. Wow. Yeah. So, Crime Watch Daily visited Ed Radasky's mother and said, Did Ed have anything at all

to do with Felicia's disappearance? No, no, no, she said. They go on to say, Getting a door slammed in your face is nothing compared to what happens when I go into an auto shop to talk to some of Ed's neighbors. Good morning, sir. How are you? Sorry we've been rolling around the back of your property. I apologize for that. I wasn't sir. How are you? Sorry we've been rolling around the back of your property. I apologize for that.

I wasn't sure. And they get cut off. Quote, you're lucky because my daughter-in-law had the gun aimed at you. That's her job. She called me and told me she said she was all ready to bang and I told her to hold off. She was going to murk you. There's a lady walking around your yard. Shoot her now. And he said, well, I'm glad she's the reporter said well, I'm glad you said that we're working with Felicia Thomas's family

And he said I don't know nothing about it other than what I read in the paper. No idea So anyway, there is a book that just came out in 2024. It's a paperback called Hugo's graveyard Really? Yeah written by who the hell wrote this fucking thing Edward Lewis came out in 2024, it's a paperback called Hugo's Graveyard. Really? Yeah, written by, who the hell wrote this fucking thing, Edward Lewis, it has 4.8 stars out of 15 reviews. It's only 296 pages and it's only available in paperback. So no keynote, no audiobook, I don't know. So there you go everybody.

Holy. That is some crazy shit in Pennsylvania, wait, that is some crazy shit in, Pennsylvania boy that is Insane I hate insane Fucking insane. So if you like that story or if you hated it a lot either way Please tell the world about how great the show is it doesn't matter get on whatever app you're on give us five stars Also follow on social media at small town murder on Instagram small town pod on Facebook Definitely had to shut up and get me murder calm That's the website head over there and get your tickets for live shows April 19th is the 420 virtual live show

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wonderful fucking people in the world who would never ever ever bury us in their yards Jimmy hit me with them right now this was the other Bruce's are Elena Zemmell's Noah. Happy birthday bud. Hey happy birthday. Happy fucking birthday. You called him bud like he was eight. Raptor 1 happy birthday. Raptor 2 said so. Raptor 1 and 2. Gary Howard and Jordan Brockwell. Brock Hell. Thank you all so much for what you're doing. You're fucking great So you're super amazing other producers this week from Michelle Centeno and her wolf pack at Centeno farms in Centeno kennels in

Canada Peyton Meadows Elizabeth Rockefeller. We got Rockefeller money Janice. Oh boy give more Tiffany Townsend Robert Baker Baker, your highness, Justin Daggett, Travis Freeman, Shel Sinclair, Rosie with no last name, Devin, Devin Hughes, or maybe it's De'Von. I don't know. I don't know. I mentioned something else, but it doesn't matter because it's not spelled the same. Brandon M. Tyler Blevins, Vince Oswald, Corin Nilka, Janilka, Sierra Cash, Sophia Hernandez Ortiz, Derek Patterson, Madison Benson, Jeremy Brent Kilmas, Ramon Wutrich, Sierra Payne, Heidi with know last name, Matt and Tiffany Laws, Ian Harrington, Jeff would know last name, Michael Wareme,

were me, Bamfer, one nine eight seven. Maybe it's bad motherfucker, bad, bad motherfucker. I think that's what it's supposed to be. Connor Brown, Jen Veenstra, Lindsay Nadalski, Amy Ice, Rusty Ingerson, Heather Annis, oh boy, oh boy, OG Bumpsniff, okay, Shawna, Shawna, I think, Sienna maybe? I think it's Shawna.

Bumpsniff is putting your cards and your Coke right on the table, isn't it? Really telling you a lot. Letting you know what they do. Kjell, Kjell, Kell Anderson, Faye McCulkey, McCully, Bryn Kaufer, Kaufer, Rachel Ruthless. I think that might be a typo.

Is that a roller derby name? What is it? Is that a roller derby name? Probably. Kaylyn Spiker, Spicher, maybe another roller derby chick. Darcy Lenhart, Todd would know last name.

Tabitha Martin Aslin. Aislinn Ashlyn Smith. Hey, there we go. Aslyn Smith. Terry Brewer. Brewer. Brewer, delicious. Yeah, that's her last name.

Is that a, isn't that a type of cheese that's outspoken? Oh yeah, Brewer is absolutely a cheese. Christine Harnett Carter Rowe Amanda Claibault Nick Nick Cameron that Nick Cameron is there an actor or somebody famous named Nick Cameron? I don't know It's possible, but he says maybe that guy April would know last name Carrie O'Brien Riley Foster Courtney Jones skip with no last, probably not that one. Anamia, Anamia, Anamia, Anamia Rumley?

Oh, like, all right, like Anne Marie, but somebody named somebody Anamia? That's crazy. Anamia, well I guess it's people are named Mia and people are named Anna. Right, that's a fascinating two together. Megan Boone, the nature girl, James, the one. The only one.

John would know last name. Bernie would know last name. Von Holding, Jessica Armstrong, Jeanette Sealy, James Shidel, Manchester United, and Pints. They drink that shit and watch that shit. Sue Dematia, Dematia, Dematia. Sandra Usery, Allison Michaela, Snana, what? That's not her name.

Joan Marie, oh boy, Ernie, I don't know. Daniel Barnes, Biff Deadlift, KK's Blogs, Corey Strong, S Wolverine, what is this one? Mary Wilson, very easy. Cody Latvala, Cary Dixonala Carrie Dixon Tim Boner Boomer Yeah, Dixon and boner back to back Carrie Dixon and Tim Boner right back to back. All right, Elvin Dixon Tim Boner Justin would know last name cake with no last name Virginia Gibbons. Hold me like hold me tighter James Southern girl Tyler Foster squishy Cthulhu, what

are those things? Kumquat McGillicutty, that's not a name. Becca would know last name, Mike O'Neill, Carly Punt, Punt maybe, Brandon Johnson, Lisa Dominic, Jen would know last name, David D. Christina would know last name. Big Imt85. I don't know what that is. Casey Pearson. Bibler or Bibler. Moss would know last name. Cindy Wolf. Morgan Greaves. Monica Schulte. Steel Toe Joe. T. Remy. CJ Frisch. Anita Lindsay. Johnny Bravo probably not. Kate Heiberg, Tiara Edmister, Cassandra Tabore, Taber maybe, Molly Thamu, Thiemu, Tmue, Jack Mason, Josie Smith, Elizabeth Stanton,

yep, Drew Cochran, Corcoran, Bill Onomatopoeia Pants, Kylie Trich, Brit with no last name Laura Robinson suck my dick James Sook my dick that's a person very We have a lot of Korean listeners, so that would make sense Dwight Shaw Nicholas Wrigley regal regal Matt with no last name Tara. He won't all Gall, Matt with no last name, Tara Hellenthal, Joelle Rose, Brandi Davis, Monica Trevino, Jacqueline Lemenski, Katie Wood, Kendra Lemon, Shannon Hoffmeyer, Kylie Vogelsang, and all of our patrons. Thank you all so much. Thank you so much, everybody. You're fantastic, wonderful people. God damn it. We appreciate

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