Small Town Murder - #589 - Pig Farm Murders - Wimer, Oregon

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

This week, in Wimer, Oregon, detectives are called out to a small, rural farm, to investigate a minor matter, but end up finding half of a human leg on the property. This leads to a massive investigation, and the realization that the owner of this property may have been killing workers, and feeding them to the pigs! Somehow, it gets even weirder, from there, as we find out just how many have met their fate, in the pig pen!!Along the way, we find out that Bigfoot is very easily confused with a bear, that you should be suspicious when someone keeps mentioning that they're curious if pigs eat people, and that there is no such things putting a human being "out of their misery"!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. When a young woman named Desiree vanishes without a trace, the trail leads to Cat Taurus, a charismatic influencer with millions of followers. But behind the glamorous posts and inspirational quotes, a sinister truth unravels. Binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. When Luigi Mangione was arrested for allegedly shooting the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, he didn't just spark outrage, he ignited a cultural firestorm. Is the system working or is it time for a reckoning? I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.

This week in Weimer, Oregon, mysterious disappearances on a local farm lead detectives into a world of horror with filth, body parts, a strange cast of characters, and some very hungry pigs. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo.

I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, we have a very, very, very wild story for you today. I mean, it is all sorts of filth, so we'll get into all of that. It's a nasty farm story. This, by the way, is a story that we did for the virtual live show all sorts of filth so we'll get into all of that it's a nasty farm story this by

the way is a story that we did for the virtual live show back on Halloween and this house forever ago the hours a long time ago so I'm sure everybody forgot and plus we've added a lot more details here the virtual lives you don't quite get the same amount of time to go over every detail of the murder you know with costumes and such pictures and the like So we're gonna get into that. Before we do though, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com, get your tickets for live shows, the 419, that's right, April 19th, Saturday night.

And if you're listening to this after that and go, oh, I missed it. No, you didn't. If you're within two weeks of April 19th, you can still get it. You can watch it a hundred times, do whatever you want. Virtual live show, just like a regular live show, but in your house or wherever the hell you want,

anywhere with internet. But we have costumes that are gonna be fun. Terrific. Just like all the pictures, everything like that. Except you can be in your living room. Come and see it, or stay and see it, I should say. And that's the 420 virtual live show. And then also get your tickets for May the 17th at the Riviera in Chicago

Yeah, live live show will be live live so get in there and see that can't wait Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that You should also listen to our other two shows crime in sports. We got a big evil Knievel series going on right now Nothing to do with sports just crazy stuff and then Definitely listen to your stupid opinions as, the show that we do about internet reviews. Then if you listen to everything, you're all caught up and you need more. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get, first of all, hundreds of episodes of back bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription lots of binging then

new ones every other week one crime and sports one small-town murder and you get them all this week what we're gonna do for crime and sports we're gonna continue on with fraternity hazing and do a part two there cuz I was so fun and I'm like oh no it's already an hour, there's we have so much more And burned Amanda death. Yeah, Ben Franklin was involved in a Just a man flaming on just going and then for small-town murder We're gonna talk about the Lori Vallow trial here the doomsday cult mom as she's known and her trial in Arizona is going On right now. She's representing herself

Questioning all the witnesses and doing a terrible job. And we're going to talk. I've been watching. I've watched every second of it. So we're going to talk all about the highlights of her, of her representing herself, patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. So there you go. You're going to screw this up. That's Jimmy. You'll screw up your name is what I meant to say there. That's that I think it's time for the disclaimer It's comedy show everybody that is we are comedians There will be jokes, but that doesn't mean that anything in the story is not real every last detail Somehow is real and all the you'd listen to these stories and go they had to make some of that up

No, we didn't not a drop of it. Don't need to We you know it's crazy stuff here. You say what's so funny about murder lots of stuff including Someone saying I think I can get away with this crazy murder That's that's crazy and worthy of jokes right there But what we don't do what we never do we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims Or the victims families. Why James? Because we're assholes. But.

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? So if you think that sounds good to you we're going to have a wild time. If you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together I don't know what you're doing here but maybe give it a shot and see how you like it. You're an interesting person. No complaining later. That's the only rule there.

So that said, I think it's time to sit back. Here we go. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip. Shall we? We are going to Weimer, Oregon. Yeah. W I M E to Weimer, Oregon. W-I-M-E-R, Weimer. It is a small place here

in southern Oregon, like southwestern Oregon kind of. About four hours and ten minutes to Portland, so nowhere near there. About two hours to Weed, California, if you're looking to go there. We're going there, the 420 show. We're going to weed New York that day. And then it's about an hour to Kirby, Oregon, which was our last Oregon episode, Too Many Dead Neighbors. That was the one where the guy had the junk pile in between. He made a fence out of a junk pile and it was a lot.

And the area code here, 458. The town motto here, as I assume a lot of towns in Oregon probably use this motto please excuse our mold I believe is what they use yeah it's gonna be a little moldy history it's a little damp history of this town here it is it's in Jackson County Oregon that county was named for who Jimmy and Michael Jackson Andrew Michael Jackson that's right He moonwalked all the Native Americans to their reservations there Why her lies along the Evans Creek north of the city of Rogue River? The city called Rogue River. That's a cool name for a city

Yeah, it's coming around the corner real creepy like the community was named for a relative of William Weimer Who edited a newspaper in Grants Pass? Yeah, so I don't know why I guess William Weimer was also said to have established a post office in Weimer here Which was open until 1909 There's a covered bridge that crosses the creek and Weimer and that bridge of course They replaced that bridge collapsed into the creek in 2003 so yeah Bridges need a lot of that reason that nobody wants to cross

It's the exact reason of funny farm. So Yeah, they replaced the bridge with a look-alike bridge though. That's pretty cool They made it one that looks just like it but with stronger materials, you know modern-day stuff There was steel and shit like that. It's only a 17 feet wide kind of a small bridge here Yeah, I guess you get two cars across that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a small little deal They also became the first of an eventual 35 counties in Oregon to implement a fire proofing situation where you had to fire proof your homes as around it so it didn't help keep them from wildfires yeah they had to keep a 30-foot or greater

fire break around their structures so yeah nothing's nothing flammable around there yeah so your couch doesn't catch on fire here. The 2007, the residents voted not to reopen the county's 15 libraries which were closed due to a shortage of funds. It was the largest library closure in the history of the United States and then they reopened them with reduced hours a few months later. That's that's wonderful Reviews here five stars. We've never been here who knows Five stars I felt loved and safe in my university. They helped me get stable Came in all fucked up

I came in all unstable and came out on even ground I visited the lake of the woods, Lake of the Woods, huh? And it was beautiful and peacefully quiet, all right? Here is four stars. Here we go. I've lived in Jackson County for my entire life and it's been amazing. I think five stars is amazing.

I think five stars is amazing though, four stars. Where are they at? Three? Very good. Four. Four. There are admittedly some bad drivers, potheads, and unfortunate homeless people, but that's only a fraction of what the county has to offer. What do you have to offer? Well, bad drivers, potheads, and some unfortunate homeless people. Oh, there's more of them. There is very little traffic, so commuting isn't a hassle. The weather is amazing, and if you stay here for a year you'll see that we experience all four seasons wholeheartedly.

When paired with the rolling hills, plentiful pastures, mountain ranges, inviting skies, the weather really tops off Jackson County's overall charm. Although there are obviously issues, no county is going to be perfect. However, with its low crime rates, Jackson County is a great choice for families. It's a pleasure living here. Wow. We don't half ass a single season. Jesus Christ. Three stars here. The crime in Jackson County has skyrocketed. With the pot grows came a bunch of people looking for work of out of state or country with fentanyl came a whole new set of issues there are better places to live.

Fentanyl is not legal so calm down. Let's not blame legal weed growing operations on all of the towns fucking ills especially fentanyl which has nothing to do with that. People in this town, 441, so it's a small town. It's a small place, yeah, it's tiny. 50, almost 56% men, only 44% female, so that is not a lot, it's the most men we've ever seen in a place, I think just

because there's a lot of outdoor stuff going on here. Median age here, 61.4. That is very, that's the median age. So for every 40 year old, there's an 80 year old. You know what I mean? That's amazing. That's crazy. There is also, there is zero people in the census, like zero to four years old.

No babies in this town. Not a single toddler baby. There's a store with a diaper shelf just covered in dust. It's the diapers are thick dust on them. No one's buying them. Diapers from 86. Also no one from 45 to 54 lives in this town either. So 45 years old to 54 years old.

It's about 40% married, which is lower than the average. For the high age, the widow rate is actually pretty normal. So you think there'd be more dead spouses here, but it's not. Race of this town, pretty, only two things here. You got 96.8% white, 3.2% Native American. That's it. Whoa. That's the town. Never heard of that American. That's it. Whoa. That's the town. You never heard of that before. That's interesting. That's it. Six point seven percent unemployment which is a little above the national average at this very moment. Cost of living, 100 being regular average.

Here it is 106. And the highest thing here is home cost. So it's not cheap here at all. Expensive. Yeah, median home cost here, 376,800 bucks. God damn, 400 grand. Yeah, I know there's a lot of the houses here have a lot of property with them. That's helpful, yeah. It's not a lot of mansions, it's just 150 acres with a shitty house on it that happens to be worth it.

That is fascinating, the land makes it more valuable. Yeah, yeah. Big properties. More land. You can have a beautiful house on a small property and a small house on lots of land. You could have two trailers sitting on 150 acres. It's the same thing. So if we've convinced you there's nowhere else in the world that you could possibly

be happy, we have for you the Weimer Oregon Real Estate Report. Average two-bedroom rental here is slightly below the national average, about $1,190. Here's house number one, a three-bedroom two-bath, 1742 square foot house. The house, the listing by the way, bragging about a quote, fully fenced in yard. Oh, and that's about all. That's about all there is to say positive about it. It's a, it's a, it looks like, no, yeah. And it looks like a, like

a manufactured mobile home that they stuck in the ground real good. That's what it looks like. It's not, not that it just sunk. Not that great. It's in the 55 plus golden rogue mobile estates. Yeah. There we go Wow 193,500 bucks for that That's unbelievable too and they get you on the lot fees like you could I'm sure Even if you've got money to buy that it costs so much to keep it so much. Here's a three-bedroom two baths 1782 square foot house so which almost exactly the same as the last house it's

This place by the way is like this place is like if if a guy Went to a lodge one time and was like I'm gonna do my house like this Just animal pelts and shit like that. I never want to never want to forget this weekend I'd like to have a house that a woman will never come to that's what it's that's what this house looks like No fenced yard though. What no fence yard shit. No a lot of junk though in this house I don't know if it comes with the house or what 350,000 bucks for it though So it's interesting here. It has a big shop by the way to big 44 by 50 foot shop out back. Oh Which is it's just an empty structure, but it's still you know a shot so hard here is

house number three is five bedroom four bath 3732 square feet it is 44.64 acres Big property it's a it's looks like a fancy log cabin Just a real fancy kind of a rich person log cabin has a steam room and shit You know what I mean mean it's one of those yeah all the walls are all knotty pine that kind of crap here very nice 1 million 250 thousand bucks though seems a little steep things to

do here the bigfoot trap okay they're very into Sasquatch up here this is Sasquatch country this is a like just a little box in the woods Basically looks like a little looks like a place where like teenagers would go to like drink beer or finger each other do whatever in There it's just a little little place like that I'll read about the Bigfoot trap some say Sasquatch still roams the forests of the rogue River Valley whether you're a true believer or a staunch skeptic the fact is That the world's only known Bigfoot trap resides in the forest just a few miles from Applegate Lake in southern, Oregon well I mean I Could build a fairy trap that doesn't mean I'm gonna catch any fairies and

If you're a true believer or a staunch, if you're a normal person or an absolute idiot. Or an idiot. Built in 1974 by the North American Wildlife Research Team, they should have researched that there is no Bigfoot. That would have been part of their research. The purpose of the trap was to prove the existence of the legendary Bigfoot. Holy shit. Unfortunately, in six years of use, it just caught a shitload of bears. Which is exactly like my joke that I had about that Finding Bigfoot show where I go,

Hey, every show is the same thing. Hey, you ever think maybe that was a bear? Ever think of that? Big, tall, giant, loud, all over the fucking place in the woods. Super hairy? Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it sounds like a bear roared at you Huh weird. What could that be? Interesting here in the rogue River Valley bigfoot sightings and stories circulate frequently footprints of extraordinary size have been documented and

We've seen those are all hoaxes and local report on locals report unusual phenomenon not easily explained by science oh boy really they say we'll let you be the judge I've already judged that one but in the beat up allowing the people to be the judge yeah the people I'm tired of people just asking questions ago I mean maybe no no how that's a flat earth and Bigfoot. Let's just say no definitively on that right now and move on from there So they say we highly recommend the seven mile hike up Collings Mountain To I guess to see this I don't know here seven miles to see a bear trap. I guess so they also say that there's a lodge that claims

that Bigfoot stops by every once in a while. So you should come by and eat some dinner there. You know what I mean? Also, there's the Oregon Chocolate Festival. That sounds like more our speed, I think. I think there. From chocolate makers wine dinner on Friday night, educational presentations and demos to chocolate brunch and weekend filled with chocolate creations offered by artists

and makers from all across the West Coast there is a chocolate makers wine dinner there is a chocolate Wonka costume contest it says to come dressed as your favorite chocolate character Oh Oh, who would it be anybody? But chocolate? That's a me. What are chocolate characters? I mean, there's M&M's. There's M&M's.

At Easter, yeah. You could be a bunny. Yeah, you could be Willy. Yeah. You could be, that's it. There's no chocolate character. We run out. We don't usually make characters out of chocolate

and eat them usually. That's not how it works. I don't know how that works. There's a blind taste test by expert judges I bet that was chocolate chocolate product competition to me name the ultimate truck. Mmm. I'm going with a milk That's a milk chocolate Yeah, there's only milk dark and white right is there any other chocolate I'm sure there's a few in between that we're missing, but nothing that anybody cares about. We've classified them into these three kinds of chocolate

that we care about here. Dark and a Cabernet, and I'm a happy guy. Well, you don't give a shit about chocolate, that's fine. You can enjoy the live music and food truck at the festival. Bringing the family along, we have something for everyone. So explore the many family activities, and here's some activities they have the here's the musical lineup Cami, Sorrento will be there You know that is nope nope me neither a piano vocalist and songwriter

And it says that she's a piano vocalist living in southern, Oregon Some of her earliest musical experience took place sharing the place sharing the piano bench with the church pianist. okay? i mean i think we can all do that. that's probably, i could sit next to someone who plays the piano well. she blends that background with her years of classical piano training to create inventive covers of pop, rock and funk. so it's all covers.

eclectic collection of covers including songs by CCR. I don't want to hear one chick on a piano playing fucking You know fortunate son. I don't need to hear that. That's just gonna be weird right Yeah, you can do it. I mean it's kind of a family you could do it he does yeah Really Fogarty John Fogarty. Yeah, it's kind of a feminine sound that he does, yeah. Really? Fogarty? John Fogarty? Yeah, it's kind of just a high-picking. He sounds like a hillbilly getting stabbed in the neck with a beer bottle when he's saying it.

Even if it's a high pitch, a gal could probably do it pretty well. Meh, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh. No, no, no, no. I can see it. I mean, I'm sure they sing it fine. You can see. I just don't want to hear.

I want to hear the instruments, not just a piano. I don't want to hear either an over hear the the instruments not just a piano I don't want to hear like a either an over dramatic version or like a lounge up a lounge version of that Either way is gonna be weird Tom Petty You too Tina Turner all this type of shit basically so all the hits all the hits and then there is a Wonka costume contest and it says that's what we talked about there Wanka costume contest and it says, that's what we talked about there, dress up, come dressed in your favorite chocolate character inspired costumes

and win a 2025 chocolate getaway. Oh, there's that too. Chocolate getaway, the Hershey Highway, Jimmy. We know that. The winner will enjoy an unforgettable overnight stay for two at the retro modern Ashland Hills Hotel. That's what you get. Where the hell is that? Ashland Hills, I assume. There you go. So that is that crime rate in this town.

What we're interested in here. Property crime is about a quarter beneath the national average. So a little bit safer than your average town and then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average, little below that. So I mean. Pretty good.

Pretty good, and I don't know what the hell anybody. What are they gonna do? They're elderly and they live in rural area with like mountains in between people and big properties. Who's shooting? Giant properties between their house and the other. Stop killing each other. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Okay, now let's talk about some murder here okay now let's talk

about a person here uh Stephen Buchanan we'll start out with all right uh Stephen with a v by the way uh Stephen Stevie b Stephen Buchanan uh born in 1948 in California now not a lot, that's some post World War II baby boomer shit right there. California. Warn you, who knows, parents were maybe World War I people, or World War II people, and a lot of people were in California. That's kind of how it got a lot of its population was World War II, basically. Jobs, people came, the Okies came hard for the jobs there. So we don't know too much about Stephen Buchanan's childhood life.

Not a lot said and it's very strange too because it's someone that you'd imagine that they would talk about their childhood later but they don't. So Stephen here ends up signing up for the Navy to fight in Vietnam. Signing up. Signing up. Signing up, so.

Not drafted. Not drafted, enlisted in the Navy and fought in Vietnam, honorably discharged after a couple tours of duty and all that kind of shit. So, you know, Stephen came up, and that's a very common thing. Parents were World War II people, had kids, they went and fought in Vietnam, it's kinda how it was.

So Stephen is honorably discharged from the service after the war, and then pretty much right away after Vietnam ends, Stephen comes home and becomes Susan at that point. Transitions? Yeah, yeah, has a operation and the whole deal. You know, early 70s style too. I mean, this was, so yeah, from then on, you know,

that's she's just, she's just Susan Monica from then on. Susan first name, Monica last name. Okay. And that's just the way it is. So. Wow, really? Yeah, back, I mean, early 70s. That's a, that's. You even got rid of the last name

Yeah, yeah, no Stephen Buchanan and like we said We don't know what the the family situation was like that would make you want to enlist for Vietnam or to Completely get rid of your family name, and who knows you know what I mean, but either way Somebody who knew Susan Monica at the time said she got into an engineering career and was very successful Wow, so yeah did pretty well for herself after Vietnam, so She'll talk about later to having some PTSD shit from Vietnam and stuff like that Which I mean a lot of people went through that Christ so she's going through a lot

You add that into yeah into everything else too. Yeah, it's a lot. She's not you add that into yeah. Yeah into everything else, too Yeah, that's a lot to go through. Yeah. Yeah, so 1991 okay, Susan's been working doing engineering and all that kind of thing for a while She buys a 20 acre farm in Weimer Yeah, and wants to kind of just change her lifestyle completely Susan wants to have Pigs and chickens and all that kind of shit and have like a, you know, kind of a mini farm, basically. She swings hard away from whatever's going on in her life.

She's, I don't wanna do this. Engineering to I'm gonna live on a farm. A small farm, basically. From military to, yeah. Yeah. Gonna go out here. And a lot of this with Susan is kind of pulling away too. There's a lot of pullback I see from people

and from society and stuff like that in Susan of things that she'll start to do over the years. And that's also undiagnosed PTSD makes people do that too. They get, they kinda withdraw a little bit there. So anyway, she does all this, has pigs, chickens, ran a wrought iron fence, and a gate building business out of the farm too. So she's doing that.

Well, too. Yeah, doing all this type of shit. It's called white queen construction, which is a little on the nose, I would say. Yeah. So. Fucking bingo. I mean, sense of humor too. You gotta like that. So when Susan first bought the nose, I would say. Yeah, fucking bingo. I mean, sense of humor too, you know, like that.

So when Susan first bought the property, it was undeveloped woodlands, it was just the woods. She just bought a plot of woods and she ended up chopping trees down, erecting a large barn, which an engineering background's gonna help when you wanna build shit and figure out what surfaces are and all that kind of thing. That's all engineers right that do that?

Isn't that kind of plan all that kind of shit out? Yeah, it's more or less engineering that gets you going with the architectural shit. Yeah, you probably know a good amount. So anyway, a large barn is erected and a she starts working on building a house to there so just making a whole little little nook and 2001 Susan was convicted of reckless endangering and resisting arrest And this was in some kind of incident in town that were the details were never made public here But that's I just have her arrest record of that's definitely what happened.

Two thousand nine was booked on menacing and recklessly endangering. That was the charges. Those charges were dropped ultimately. So we don't even know what that is. They were going to be a fight. No idea. No idea. So 2012 comes around and Susan is just not in a good mental place at this point at all starts losing like

chunks of hair from stress Like in patches that kind of shit like Roger Maris when he was going when he was going for the record Well, yours yours went evenly at least Well, I mean the center in the back isn't so great. No, no, but that's just male pattern baldness. It's not, you know, it's not, oh, fuck, I got something the size of a quarter with no hair back there.

It just thinned real specifically. That sucks a lot. It just thinned specifically in the same place that 40% of the male population thins, you know, right? Yeah, there's that, yeah. But it's like, it's that, there's no haircut. There's none. You can even all the areas,

and then the thinning is still obvious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one of those. So you just gotta shave it. You got no choice. You gotta shave it, or some people can do something. You see some people, it looks normal. It depends on their head. It depends on your head.

Yeah, I got a pretty good round head, but I can grow. You gotta decide what kind of head you have. I can grow specific areas out and cover everything by pulling it long in a tight ponytail like Garland, but I'm not doing that shit either. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

This a silent starts firing at him and the suspect he's been identified as Luigi Nicholas man, Johnny became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history was meant to sow terror is awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real?

Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctors' offices. Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries, and each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries should be your new go-to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple podcasts. or on Spotify or Apple podcasts. No, it's fine though, it's fine, your hair's fine. Yeah, but the patches and like not having great hair, I feel so much for Susan. It's a stress thing here, you know, like we hear this often with people who are under extreme stress, they'll lose chunks of hair in spots. Susan starts to not take care of her body at all or herself

Claims that basically for the next two years from 2012 to about 14. She doesn't ever take a bath or a shower nothing just Wipes wipes herself down with a rag. Oh That's it So I mean that's you're living in the woods and she's doing a lot of like manual labor out there dealing with pigs. So I mean there's, she's got animal shit on her multiple times a day. Like I would be dying for showers in this situation but that shows your mental state. She's just kind of letting herself go.

That's terrible. Yeah I think it's the mental state of whatever she's going through at this moment is having a bad effect here. So wiping down with a rag, which is never good 2013 there's a guy named Robert Harry Haney ha any why and He's born in 1957 and he found Susan through an ad on Craigslist. She put out an ad on Craigslist for basically people to help work her property and you can live there. That's for room and board and a little bit of cash

and you know, kinda. She doesn't have time for a shower. She needs some help around here. Yeah, she needs help and also, you know, I mean how old is she at this point? Getting 64 years old or something? God dang, yeah. You know, if you wanna chop a tree down,

you might wanna get some help with that when you're in your 60s You might get winded a little more a bit. So, um now Her Susan or I'm sorry Roberts Son said quote my dad and Susan had a deal My dad would get part cash and be able to stay on the property My dad agreed to build a house from the bottom up So that's part of the deal is he's going to help build the house and all that kind of shit. So now that Robert

liked to live in the woods, like the solitude, liked all that. He lived out in the barn and just liked it's real quiet out there. And that's kind of what he was into here. Another person said he was her handyman, laborer, carpenter, whatever she asked of him he did. That's what a friend said. Now December of 2013, apparently Robert always keeps in touch with his kids. He keeps in touch with his son Jesse, he's got another kid too he keeps in touch with, so he keeps in touch with his kids, no matter where he is, kind of a wanderer. Someone who's looking for ads on Craigslist for labor in exchange for room and board

is probably a bit of a wanderer. You know what I mean? They're not that stable. So Jesse, who is Robert's son, said, "'We hadn't seen or heard from my dad in two months "'starting in December 2013.'" They noticed, hey, have you heard from dad anytime? You know, pre Halloween and no one had. So once is the flag. Wow. That's

yeah. That's how, you know, out there he is probably too. Yeah. So, and who knows how often they talk or whatever, but they said that we all just started to panic is what Jesse said. We just didn't know what to do about that because two months, usually I guess it was a weekly call and then you know there was some time went by and then it just didn't still hadn't couldn't get hold of him. So also Susan around this time has been acting a little bit strange. One guy here who we'll talk about named Michael will have plenty, he'll have plenty to say and it's all hilarious by the way. This guy, I want this guy to have a fucking Netflix special, but he can't know that he's,

that they're even filming him like a hidden camera, Netflix special, or he's just talking to people cause he's fucking unintentionally hilarious. Follow his day. Oh, he's the, this guy's amazing. I want to just follow him around. He said Susan had always been nice and I noticed a change in her there. So he'd been kind of living on and off here for a while on the property. And he said that Susan started acting differently after Robert disappeared.

He said she was real irritated. Now they said that that Susan was always nice to everybody else but she and Robert didn't get along a lot of fighting. Robert's a drinker. He likes to drink and he likes to get loud and that kind of thing. So they end up arguing a lot getting Craigslist employment. That's the other thing too. Yeah, I don't think he's real stable here at all. So another friend here and former, or I'm sorry, a former worker of Susan on the property said, and when she got angry, she would yell at him, not really a yell, more of a scold.

Okay, she targets him with a rage. Yeah, but it's very much put him in place though of you are not allowed to do this and you should be doing that and very much talking down to him as a person also. Susan has a little bit of a thing where Susan's kind of a pretty smart person. She treats a lot of people like she's an idiot. Like they're an idiot basically. Like she's smarter than them because she is. And she also something about people who drink she really looks down on them in a weird way too. Yeah like they can't even control their drinking so anyway they

said that yeah she would do more of a scold. One neighbor said that she had a strained relationship with Susan and she didn't know who was arguing but often heard yelling from over there. Yeah she said that quote she was actually hollering in the middle of the night and I hadn't really met them other than just seeing them in the road. So anybody who lived there at all. So January 1st 2014 Robert's kids drive out to check on their dad. They drive out to Susan's farm. Now he's got like a Trailers what they're calling it, but it's like a truck with a back camper thing on a per shell not a shell It's got like a like it's high. It's like enough to live in it's like if you

Like a pop-up by guess back of the goes on the bed rails. Yeah, just kind of builds it up It kind of yeah like that so that's what he he's that's he's got one of those Parked on the property and I guess sometimes he stays there he had been staying in the barn but then he moved into there he's got a dog too in the mix here there's a lot going on so they spoke to Susan the kids when they came out to find Robert and she said I haven't seen him since he quit four months ago he quit took off yeah quit and took off I don't know so Jesse, yeah. Quit and took off, I don't know.

So Jesse, the son, said, Susan said that my dad just basically left. She wanted us to come retrieve our dad's stuff. And she was also like, hey, he left four months ago, he left his trailer, all his shit here, you should get it off my property. Yeah, yeah.

So they went over to his trailer, and they said as soon as they looked in his trailer, they knew that something was up here Jesse said his leather jacket was there His dog was still running around and all of his tools were there It made the back hairs on the back of my neck stand up. He's not going anywhere without his tools That's what he does for work. Yeah Well, she said he took off and she think he went somewhere to go look for work. She said I think Ashland

He went to go look for work. So You don't go look for work and especially in January, you don't not take your jacket or your tools to go work It just doesn't make any sense. So Understandably, they're a little bit taken aback by this. He said he found most of his father's belongings intact Including vehicles and other items but could never find his father's belongings intact, including vehicles and other items, but could never find his dad's wallet anywhere around. So yeah, they were, it's interesting. So they end up filling out a missing persons report with the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. And they learn also that months had passed since anyone had seen

him. And a lot of times he lived on cash, which makes it not very easy to track his actions here too. So police come out to the farm, because it's a missing persons report, and that's the last place he was seen. Yeah. So you gotta put together a timeline, and they go take a look over here. They pull up to the property,

and there's the camera footage of them pulling up to the property and pictures, and it footage of them pulling up to the property and pictures and it looks like a fucking mess. It looks like a mess. It looks like they have back here, they used to have these like paintball courses that were like zombie apocalypse themed. Awesome.

Where there's like an old trailer tipped over on its side that people could hide behind and like a fridge that someone will pop out of, it's like garbage hang. Shit like that That's fun unless you have to investigate That's the thing unless you have to go look through that shit But this looks like this is all the fun of a paintball course, but with no paintballs. This is just This is just a scary place. Yeah, like if everybody left some company could just go. Oh, we'll have paintball wars here

Obviously, let's just set up shop You just decide which side stands where and there we go. Well, clearly this is a paintball field and that's all it's for. Oh, there's shit everywhere. There's vehicles, debris, kind of makeshift shanty town structures where it looks like a little Hooverville in there somewhere. It's real weird, man. The one police officer says, I'm thinking to myself as we are pulling up,

are we in the Twilight Zone here? What the fuck am I doing here? Like everybody pulled out was like, whoa, this place is weird. We have to discern from what's normal and what's not here. Yeah, it's like they pulled up and he's like, maybe I'll retire, start a zombie apocalypse themed paintball course here.

That seems like what I'm doing. This looks all confusing. Jesus Christ. So Susan told the cops that Robert lived and worked on her property for about six months, but things kind of took a bad turn for him, and he left. The cop said, quote, he received a concerning call from a family member that she had been the victim

of an assault, and he was really upset about that. This will go on. They claim that Susan claims he got a call from a family member saying that someone in his family got raped, attacked and raped. And he was really upset about it. And Susan said that basically he left to go quote, take care of that. Stevens did?

Robert left. Robert, Robert, yeah. Robert left to go quote, take care of the rapist. The rape. He's gonna go kill the rape, or apparently. So okay, I mean, good luck, but you know, that's the story. She claims he began drinking heavily and acting erratically after that phone call.

And she said he eventually told her he's going away for a while and said, could you please take care of my dog? I gotta go take care of this rape thing. Okay. Keep an eye on my trailer and my dog and my tools and my jacket. Avenge a rape. I'm going to go over, avenge somebody's honor right now, but I don't need my jacket. Luckily. Yeah. I'm going to go. It's a very warm climate, this person's honor. It's in San Diego, his honor.

It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be okay. Going to the high desert for this one. So they were, the only way they're able to track Robert at all is he has an Oregon Trail Electronics benefit transfer card. That's your, like your, like your EBT card. Like welfare, social security social security whatever SSI card

it's called the Oregon Trail which is pretty fun. No they were like that now everyone loves Oregon Trail we're doing this. He's the champion of this game and he has benefits for life. For life. He got there for it didn't even take the banker he was a he's a farmer and he went that route and somehow made it so they learned that it had been last used in December of 2013 so he's supposedly missing since shit September yeah September early October and this was used in December at a Walmart in

Grants Pass Oregon which is about 25 minutes from Susan Monica's property and where he was living. So apparently she says he left four months ago, but he was in the area a month ago. Just recently, right? At Walmart, apparently. So they figure that out. They say that it had been used at a date

after Susan Monica said he had disappeared. That's what one of the cops said. So at one point out of nowhere while they're chatting with her about this because you know she's just saying when she saw him she just spontaneously says quote I'm in the process of trying to get a government grant for research with pigs on how they consume human bodies. What? She just tells a group of detectives that at her house. That never asked anything about her pigs, human bodies. They said, have you seen Robert?

His card was used at a Walmart. And she said, I'm trying to get money for this. Okay. She said Robert Haney quote, got all crazy and destroyed a room on the property. The last time she saw him, you'd be like, Hey, that's great. Can you go back to pigs eating humans? Right. Can we, but I'm in the middle of building, building a laboratory to see how fast this flesh eating amoeba work.

We're going to do that. I'm trying to see how quickly I can produce as much ricin as possible, is that a thing? Like, no, let's go back to that. So yeah, she said he got all crazy, destroyed a room on the property and all that kind of shit. So they asked, hey, can we look around the property? To which she said, she joked around about, hey, you're gonna need a warrant for that, buddy. Ha ha ha, like that.

Then, out of, again, unprompted, she says, quote, I've threatened to kill everybody and feed them to my pigs, but the thing is, pigs would probably eat you, but it's not gonna be good for them. No, no, as soon as you look around. I said, can we look through this guy's trailer? What the fuck is wrong with you? This is the craziest verbal diarrhea I've ever heard of

in my life. I just can't stop talking about pigs eating people without being asked about it. Um, so then she said, I mean, but yeah, that's obvious. I told you, I was trying to get a grant. So, you know, I'm just joking. Then she said that, you know, I'm always just joking though. I have a real dark sense of humor. She always says I have a real dark sense of humor. Wow, so they're gonna look into this whole issue and see what happened here. And so they look and they, like I said,

they found out that the EBT card was used at the Walmart near the house. So they go to Walmart. Walmart keeps their security footage. The EBT card was used at the Walmart near the house, so they go to Walmart. Walmart keeps their security footage. So they look through the security footage and they get to the time of where Robert's card's used and it's Susan Monica using his card. It's not him using his card.

Who'd she buy? Who knows, just shit at the groceries she was buying. It was regular shit, just groceries. She was buying it was regular shit. Yeah, just groceries Yeah So the one of the cops said that's what I was like, okay We got something else going on here. I was really concerned that there was some foul play involved If she's pretending to be him using the card, you know Just whatever to take his card and then at the same time won't shut the fuck up about pigs eating people. We got a lot of questions.

I want to talk to that person. So January 10th 2014. So that's how quickly this escalated from the first with the kids driving out there to the 10th. They're investigating the the fraud deal with a card. So they that's when they went to Walmart, got the footage, and now they come back with a warrant to search her house because, you know, she did possible crimes there.

So they investigated the food benefit usage card and found evidence that she'd been using the card, obviously, so they obtained a warrant to search the property, and the warrant did not limit the search to any particular piece of the property. Oh. Could be anywhere. She owned nearly 20 acres of land strewn with debris, burn and junk piles, animal enclosures and various structures.

That's from a court document quote unquote. When executing the warrant, they spoke with Susan who admitted to using the card. She was like, well, yeah, I was using it, but she has a explanation for it She said well, she said that the whole point is he wanted beer And he can't buy beer with an ebt card so she would give he would give her the card and Susan would buy beer with cash and then use the equal amount on food for herself And she said she'd buy milk, bread, cheese,

whatever the fuck, you know, basic staples and shit. So she said, that's what I was doing. Well, they were like, but you said you hadn't seen him in four months. Yeah, so you couldn't have bought him beer. So when did you buy him beer? Four months ago. And then he gave you his card.

And then what's he been doing for food for the last four months then? Because that's how he eats is that card. So they're all a little bit confused here, but really they're more taken aback by the complete and total fucking squalor that this place is. This place, this place is horrifying. There is just garbage piles. Her refrigerator is a horror scene, dude.

Her refrigerator is just packed with shit and it's all leaking out and there's black stuff. In the house? Yeah, it's disgusting. It's fucking disgusting. There's garbage. Just keeping a mess cold. Cold mess. She's eaten it I think though. That's the thing.

God dang. They also said there is industrial waste there, which I don't even know what that is. What it could be. What is it? Oil I guess? I don't know. what that is, or what it could be. What is it? Oil, I guess? I don't know. Slurry of some kind? It came out of a fact.

I don't know what's going on. Rich geranium. It could be anything, I really feel like here. So one of the sheriff's detectives said, I would describe that property as eerie. There was a very strong odor there, a lot of decay. Gross. But just of food and animal shit and. Decay.

Decay. Ugh, that's, decay is a bad word for anything. So they have to look through all this shit. There's also burn piles and junk piles and fucking pig pens and all this type of shit here. So she told them again and you know, I've used it to buy food in exchange for beer. So they walk around the property with a video camera shortly be after beginning

recording. So just walking around, they have video cameras there cause it's 2014. That is a nice part of this. That helps. So while recording and surveying the property, they encounter a human leg. What? Just a leg. Yeah. Just hanging out. Just first they spot a human leg in a, in a pond and a catchment pond. They say, uh,

they said it was clear that it was not an animal bone. It appeared to me to be a human leg that had been severed mid femur down to the toes. So not a leg. Yeah, this isn't somebody like died in the woods and an animal picked him apart. It's been severed in mid femur. Think about that. That's the most dense bone. You got to saw your ass off to get through that shit. Yeah, that is a got to put some elbow grease into that bad boy. Yeah. Wow. So once they find a leg, they go, I think we should talk to Susan a little closer. Sue, why is the leg? And hey, she's got a bunch of different people living on here, a bunch of like, kind of half transient, vagrant people living on the property. Anybody could have done anything to

anybody, but you're the middle of this and you might know everybody. So no one's blaming Susan here, but we're, you know, we don't know. Who's this belong to? Yeah, but there's a leg at your house. You know, what's up with that? And the leg is found near her house part too. Not near, not like way out in the woods or like over by somewhere.

This is like up by the house. You'd notice it. You'd notice it, especially because there's a 30 foot halo of no tree, why do you think I told you that? There's no trees around for 30 feet, so you can see it. Yeah, you wouldn't miss it if you lived there. If there was a leg anywhere within 30 feet of my house, I'd find it soon.

Probably, yeah, I got a dog. I was gonna say, my dog's will find it. Yeah, somebody's dog's gonna find it. My dog will drag that right to the door and be like, take a dog. And she's got people with dogs there. Yeah, somebody's dog's gonna find it. My dog will drag that right to the door and be like, take a look. Oh man, so they bring her in and they also bring in a couple other people

who are living on the property at the time. One is Michael Bales, and this is the guy who, I just love this guy. I didn't even look, I don't wanna look him up and find out that he's been arrested for molesting 12 kids or something, because he's just hilarious. I don't wanna know what horrible things he does or could possibly be into but he's fucking funny. So he lived on the property for a few months, did some work and I guess he'd kind of come back and

forth on and off on Susan's property as a lot of people seem to do by the way. Yeah you fall into your instability and you're like well there's a safety net over there I'll go do that. And then you kind of get tired of it and then you they try to go back into the world and yeah I'm gonna try again can always come back here and like chop some wood for board basically room board so they sit him down in the interrogation room and He's right away. He goes you guys gonna play good cop bad cop Which is a Larry The cop starts laughing because like I don't even think this guy was around when he was around when Robert was there but they definitely don't think he killed him at this point because they're laughing and the one cop goes no no

he goes we're both good cops. He says there's no reason to play good cop bad cop buddy he said maybe if there was a reason but if we had to play it and the cop points to the other cop and he Goes he'd be the bad cop So Michael says the greatest thing ever he looks at the other guy and goes yeah He looks like he could be a real dickhead sometimes, don't he? That's what he said a real dickhead sometimes Say something like you know take that from him. He said yeah, he said. A real dickhead sometimes. He didn't even say something like, you gonna take that from him? He said, yeah, he does look like a dick. He looks like he'd be a real dickhead sometimes.

So the first cop just, he starts dying. It's totally real too. He's not just building rapport. That's hilarious. Because I'm laughing at home. If I was in the room, I'd have high-fived the fucking guy. That's funny as shit. The better part is that he knows that guy so he probably has some experience Yeah, and maybe he is a dickhead. That's what's so funny

It's so fucking funny. Hey fucking clock to didn't it so as they're all laughing Michael goes. I mean no offense That's my middle name dickhead Michael dickhead bales apparently so That's he's just he doesn't give a fuck this guy He's got nothing nothing to hide nothing to lose. He's not one of these guys like oh I don't want the community to find out that I've been questioned He lives in a barn, and he doesn't give a fuck about anything He's awesome in a barn and that guy looks like a dickhead that guy's a dickhead and fucking I don't know man. That's awesome. I live in a barn and that guy looks like a dickhead sometimes. That guy's a dickhead and fucking I don't know, man.

That's awesome. So yeah, they talk about, there's this guy Brady, who I guess was in a wheelchair, and then he's on crutches later on when they talk to him. He's kind of a heavy set holder guy. Yeah, well he had an injury, yeah. He's healing, that's great. He's all good now.

It was crazy too, because he had polio, just got over it. He's all good now. It was crazy too because he had polio and it just got over it. He's just walking now. So they said that your friend Brady is in a wheelchair and he said yeah yeah up in Rogue River he introduced me to Susan and he said that she gave me a job. Okay you know I went up there I was cutting wood for her and I had nowhere else to go So yeah, I guess you'd call me a vagrant or whatnot That's a doesn't even care. He's like I guess I'm a vagrant. You're a dickhead. I'm a vagrant whatever like who cares It's all be each other

so Yeah, dude, he's sounds honest as shit and he's like leaning forward to like, you know you asked me, I'm answering buddy. Like he looks like he's like a hockey goalie. Who's like ready for a puck to come out of this conversation, man. Yeah. And he liked Robert too. He said that she was pretty nice to me. And then all of a sudden she turned not very nice. And they said, and they said, Oh wow. Well, how long were you living up there? She said, I lived up there probably about three months. And then she, they said oh wow well how long were you living up there? She said I lived up there probably about three months and then she he said quote. She's a fucking weirdo

Which is just a funny statement So you call someone a fucking weirdo. I'm interested to hear why cuz that's pretty I don't know why It's directly to the point Pretty good judge of character. I like him. He's succinct. He's like a USA Today headline. He's very succinct He pulls no punches. No punches. They said why do you say that? And then he said my favorite thing I've ever heard in the history of Any kind of interrogation you got to understand like he talks like this and everything like he's got like a real He said I don't know. She just gave me the thee-gee Bee-gees, you know what I mean?

The hee-gee Bee-gees. You know, I felt all the Gib brothers just popping up on me and stuff. Hee-gee Bee-gee feels like a very awkward blowjob. Gave me the old hee-jee-bee-jee, but I couldn't get off on it, you know what I mean? She gave me the- Had to finish myself, you know what I mean?

You know what I mean, later on. And I just said, no, it's all good, nevermind. It's not your fault. I said, nevermind, I got a headache and stuff, so you know, it just ain't working tonight, and I just went in the bathroom. My hip fell asleep, I'm sorry. About 30 seconds to finish myself off there.

Hee-jee-bee-jee. The hee-jee-bee-jee's. That's terrific. Fell asleep, I'm sorry about 30 seconds to finish myself off there the heegee Bee Gees I've never heard that one before have you? He said sometimes you can just tell when someone's a weirdo and she just gave me that feeling yeah the hee-jee-bee-jee sets that feeling Which I'll never call it anything, but the hee-jee-bee-jee again Always be the hee-jee-bee-jee man again the hee-jee-bee-jee is right now So they said were you living in the barn and he said I live over in the big-ass barn The big one the big big ass barn Big ass barn there. Yeah, I lived in two of the rooms

I lived upstairs, but then there were that there was a TV that got put in downstairs, so I moved there Yeah, I'd get the fuck yeah upstairs, too. He was just living in like this quiet Upstairs of a barn with not even a TV just nothing going on. I don't think the Wi-Fi is that strong out here I feel you know what's this guy doing? He said that, um, he said Robert, the guy who's missing was originally lived downstairs and then he got tired of her screaming at him. And so he moved to his trailer way over on that side of the property. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Basically farther away from the house. Like if Susan wants to yell at me, she's going to have to walk her fat ass over here and do it. Cause I not I'm not gonna be right there to yell at anymore so police ask

him meaning Michael here looking back are there things that were suspicious to you or kind of click in your memory like what was weird and he said everything she did was weird as we said he said everything she said was odd he's a Bee Gees man he G see, see these little bumps on, those are called, them are a heegee beegees, that's what I got there. Heegee beegee bumps, I got them. Heegee beegee bumps, I got them there.

Yeah, which you also get sometimes after a blowjob. That's true. If you get them from the wrong person. That's, you get them. Heegee beegee bumps. Gotta go to the doctor at that point. Yeah. So everything she said was odd.

They said, well, how about actions? What did she do around the property? He said, quote, drove her tractor, knocked down trees, fought with Robert constantly, you know, shit like that. He said, every day, she'd have me go wake him up. She'd say, Robert sleeps till noon and fuck him, he ain't doing any work and all that kind of shit. Mad about that.

Now he says Robert's a cool guy though. He goes, they go, what did you think of Robert? He goes, I liked him. He goes, I thought he was a cool guy. We got along real good. He said he's a real cool guy. As a matter of fact, I still owe him 10 bucks. I feel bad about that. I can't wait to pay him back. He's got, and he's like, I wish I, it's what he said, he's like, I wish I could give it to him. Like it's so, I love this guy. And this entry here is driving me fucking bonkers.

It's just, it's just in the credit column and it's a debit to me. You know what I mean? I just I gotta get rid of he's gonna come back and go 12 bucks now cuz it's been so long I keep a 10 spot just a just a pinned up to my wall just in case he comes in I ain't gonna miss a sawbuck just pinned right there He said he told me every day. I hope my kids can get my stuff because she's gonna kill me. That's what he said Robert said to him every day. Then they go okay when we talk to you quickly back at the barn there you mentioned an incident to us where Susan held you over the pig pen area something about that He said this is a little areas man quote

I think she just thought I think I thought she was just joking but she's a big woman and don't get me wrong she's bigger than you are and she just lifted me up and Held me over the pig farm because I was looking at her pigs and she knows that I'm scared of him So he was like you want she thought yeah you're scared huh well here how scared are you now and held him over the pig pen while the pigs ran over there. So he said I'm scared of them and I'd never get I'd never get in there but anyway I was looking and she held me over and laughed she went her her her her. That's what he did. He went her her her her. She laughed over.

She's like meatloaf from Fight Club. Yeah. Jesus. She's like the final boss from a Nintendo game. You get beat and they go her her her. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect, he has been identified as Luigi Nicolass Mangione, became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history.

I was targeted, premeditateditated and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber host of Luigi produced by law and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. The people to a true issue. Finally maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system.

Listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively on one degree plus enjoying one degree plus in the one degree at Spotify or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th 2024 CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect, he has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione,

became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditateditated and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber host of Luigi produced by law and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. The people to a true issue. I mean maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to

acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively on one degree plus enjoying one degree plus in the one degree app spotify or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th 2024 CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This a silent starts firing at him and the suspect he's been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione became one of the most

divisive figures in modern criminal history was meant to sow terror is walking the people to a true issue listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively on one degree plus enjoying one degree plus the one, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. So heejee bejee's, her, her, her. This guy's just, that's what I mean. I just want to follow this guy around with a camera. Yeah, he's a dickhead.

This is great. You look like a dickhead. So then she just laughed and held me over there. And she told me, I would like to see how fast my pigs could get rid of a human body. And it seems like something just kind of, I just thought it was funny, okay, you know, I thought she was kidding, okay, you know,

and they said, were you in an argument or anything? And he went, no, no, I was just looking at the pigs. She wasn't mad at me, I wasn't mad at her, this was just a, hey, what do you think of this, buddy? That's a fucking weirdo if you ask me. Everything she does is odd. So yeah, he said she laughed and laughed as she said all this shit, like I wanna see

what's up with the pigs, how fast they can eat a body. So it's fucking interesting. So they said that, well, okay, the cop said, we're familiar with the property. If you're living in the barn there, and he said, yeah, big, big old, you can't miss it. We've been up there, I've lived, yeah. He talks about the TV again.

Really proud of having that TV downstairs. You don't understand, it's got images. Real nice, and then they're like, now Robert, they talk about Robert, and they go, we gotta confirm that we're talking about the same guy with a photograph and he goes now that's him it's Robert I know who we're talking about they go you know no but it's like a police thing we got to get a photograph and he goes I know him it's him don't worry about it and he just turns back to the other cop just dismissing that guy completely nah fuck that I don't need to see no picture

clocked him he really is a dickhead and isn't he? Fucking Robert So, oh man Downstairs they're talking about they're talking about living downstairs in the barn and all that and that Robert got tired of her So they said he said this that she wanted all her work done for free and He wasn't doing it and you know He wanted more money and you know, they would argue about how much work he did as opposed to she thought he didn't do enough, he thought he did too much for the amount he was being given, whatever. But Robert said, Michael said that he was my buddy though,

I got along real good with him though, everything was great. Co-worker and we're good friends at it. We're good friends. Now Brady Murray is the guy who had a miracle happen to him, the miraculous recovering Brady Murray. who had a miracle happen to him, the miraculous recovering Brady Murray. He is in there, this guy in this interview, I don't know if he's on pain pills or what, but he is not coherent. Like he goes in and mumbles off and something like that and he's, you know, just kind of, you know, and then she went over over there like and he's got his

crutches and the way he's sitting too he's got his legs like all out and like he looks just it's just weird anyway but they talked to him he only lived on the property about three weeks before this police interview so he wasn't even didn't even cross over with Robert at all here but they asked what what did she say about Robert like what kind of person he was And she he said what little she talked about to me seemed good. She said he was a good worker He was an alcoholic she'd go downstairs and she'd hear him hollering and that kind of thing And they said what were the type of things that she didn't like about him and he said oh none that I know of

She said he liked his work And then he goes on to say sus told him that Robert had a family member raped and that he was going to take care of it, and that was that. OK, so the story is consistent. The story is consistent. Now, they bring Susan in, obviously, for the interrogation here. And so they talked to her, and they said, all right,

yeah, we're going to talk about the Oregon Trail card here. And they already, they said, you said, he gave you permission to use the card. And she said, yeah, you know, I would go and he gave me the PIN number and that way I could use it. He said, she said she would use his benefits to buy beer and then she would use the card for bread, milk and occasionally cheese.

Not all the time. Sometimes, not all the time. You cheese. Not all the time. Sometimes. Not all the time. Jesus, how much cheese can a person eat? But yeah. Depends. 12 pack, 18 pack. When I got the 18 pack, I'd get the cheese.

I'd get like a three pound, like a block from the deli. I'll just cut it myself. I like that. That's not bad. She said, other than that, I got 500 pounds of pork in my freezers. Which by the way has nothing to do with the disappearance of Robert, where he is, what you're using his card for. She just says shit out of nowhere.

It's so like Tourette's ish. It's fucking crazy. So they said, and then she says she looks over into what she thinks is a recording device and says for the record, if anybody here would like to buy some Pork I have pork 80 cents a pound I'm getting ready to get rid of another pig So 80 cents a pound she's got pork available for anybody out there is looking for some extra pork They said well, where do you butcher up your pigs right there in the barn?

And she said yeah, yeah right there in the barn? And she said, yeah, yeah, right there in the barn. And they said, oh, you know how to do that? You know how to butcher? And she said, well, I know how to kill them, not necessarily butcher them. She said, I just, I'm kind of a butcher when it comes to butchering. She says, I'm not good at it, essentially.

They go, well, how do you kill a pig? And she goes like this and points dead in the middle of her forehead and goes, boom. That's all she said. Boom, right like that, she says, which is a weird way to put it. It's while holding hard eye contact, boom. Like it's just creepy, right?

Yeah. It's just a weird odd thing to do. So they said, well, what kind of gun do you use for that? Like a rifle? And she said, a.22, you didn't see it? I saw everybody standing around searching and I didn't know why. And the cop says, well, we stand around a lot sometimes.

Ha ha ha. A.22 can kill a pig? Apparently, if you shoot it right in the forehead with it. I guess there's a spot to shoot because she'll talk about that. She said, anyway, I have a rifle there in my house. I'm not a very good shot. If I'm three feet from a pig, you're supposed to make an X from ear to ear with the cross of it in the middle of it in the middle of the forehead. And so that's where you're supposed to shoot is right there. And she said,

so yeah, from three feet, I can hit the target. And they said, well, what did Robert think about your pigs? Did he help feed them? And she said, no. And they said, did he ever go into their area? And he takes this, she takes this big, deep, and Susan was like, not that I know of. Okay. Is that a no or yes or what? Not that I know of, which is Is that a no or yes or what? Not that I know of, which is real couching, real kind of just, yeah. So the cop goes, well, I mean, the pigs are certainly a conversation piece.

I mean, I'd talk about them if I were there, you know? So basically if he did feed the pigs or go over to hang out with the pigs, if I did that, I'd talk to you about it basically. So she says, well, we didn't talk. Like, he was just there, you know? The two of us have talked more today than we did in the months that he was there. That's what she says about this. Like, me and you sitting here,

this has been a longer conversation. Which goes against what everybody else said. They talked all the time and all that kind of shit, so it doesn't make sense. So they said, well, you must have been confused when he disappeared and he didn't come back to get his dog. Didn't that confuse you?

And she said, I was confused. But like I said, when I saw him, it was sporadic and sometimes I wouldn't see him for a week. And they said he left all his stuff there though. That didn't seem strange. And she said, well, he had left with somebody and he had told me that he was going to Ashland. He mentioned to me one person in Ashland where I might get an engineering job. So, you know, I don't know, I thought he was just going to Ashland. They said, well, what do you think happened to Robert? And she said, I figured if he went to take care of the rape thing that he might

ended up getting the short end of the stick. Like, you know, you're going to go fight with rapists. Maybe they maybe they raped him to death. We don't know. Or maybe they killed him. He went to kill that guy. No job for me. I don't wanna be involved. Shit, now what? And they said, well, why didn't you call us

if you thought maybe that happened? And she said, I don't know. I didn't think it was my responsibility to call. I figure someone else would take care of it. I don't know. So, okay. I don't't have this conversation. That's why No shit So they're like, okay now you were talking about how he was drinks once in a while and every once in a while

He would flip out because of his drinking and all that kind of thing And they said other than that Your contact with him was kind of, you know, whatever. And she said, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't see him for a week. So that happens. The cop takes a pause and he goes, Susan, they found a leg by your house. They hadn't told her this yet.

And the pause is hilarious too. Just the, oh. Then there's a, by the way, the footage where the cop is going Ah, this appears to be an ankle and a foot and a knee joint here and like describing this leg and all this type of shit So she says a leg Yeah, and they went they said a human leg, you know human next to your place And the guy goes I think it might be Robert. Oh

And she says, uh, I don't know And they go well if you who could it be how many people you know are missing legs around your farm Like what the fuck are we talking that have been sawed off at the femur anybody? Was anybody like in a landmine explosion where they had to have like, you know Like have their leg taken off where they had to have like you know like have their leg taken off it. Anybody get caught in a giant fucking bear trap? Anything like that out here because that's a possibility. Looking for big foot maybe. You got any squash traps?

Can I check your property for squash traps? Is that a thing? So they said who could it be? And she said no idea. And they said do you think it might be Robert? And she said, no idea. And they said, do you think it might be Robert? And she said, I guess I should ask where it was, if it was down there by his trailer. And they said, no, no, it was right next to your place, just a few feet from your house, actually, right there. She said, well, I don't know then.

I mean, I would know it if it was out there, but next to my house, it could be anybody's leg, really. She said, if it was down by his trailer, he might have fallen down a hill or something, and his leg severed itself at the femur and climbed back up the hill. What are we talking about? He fell down a hill.

He just took a dip today down in the lake. He fell down a hill and died and sawed off his own leg at the femur to try to save himself, I suppose. But she said, if it was my place, I don't know. So here's a good question. Do you think it's strange that there's a human leg near your house? It's a great question.

And she says, very. Okay. Okay, good answer. They said, do you think it might be Robert again? They ask her that. She goes, I mean, it could be, but I can't understand how it would get there because I can't see him having an accident up by my place. They go, well then how do you think it got there?

And she said, I have no idea. She's not doing great. So then they go, okay, what do you think we should do at this point? Do you think it might be him? Like how should we proceed? And she goes, well, I would definitely get a DNA test out of there if I were you. Obviously. They said, okay, let me ask you this. Because, you know, we found just half a leg and none of the rest of Robert. So do you think if we search the other 19.99 acres of property,

do you think we're going to find any other parts of any people out there, possibly? And she said, I mean, if it's Robert's leg, I guess the rest of them must be out there somewhere. Yeah, you can't be, yeah. That is awfully casual to have. I mean, I guess the rest of a human body must be somewhere at my house, I don't know. Like, wouldn't you be way more like, fuck, that's gross.

A human leg. I mean, it's't know. Wouldn't you be way more like, fuck, that's gross. A human leg. I mean, it's a logical answer that there may be the rest of somebody somewhere if there's a leg there. Well, there's a reason for this logic, as we'll come up to in a minute. She's gonna tell us why she's so logical in a second. Oh, yeah, it's a very engineering answer. Don't you worry about that.

So yeah, I guess the rest of them is somewhere, and I'd go, imagine if you're the cop and you hear that. Yeah. Like, you're not concerned about that at all. It's not, yeah, but you're being too casual here. This is extremely nonchalant here. This is a lot of things, yeah. Yeah, so they said, do you think a coyote

may be drugged next to your house? Like they're trying to, anything? She said that was something. Folks with some common sense things that maybe there's explanation. What do you think? Yeah. She said, well, I mean,

that would make the most sense to me, I guess. And they said, okay, let me ask you this. Let's just forget about the leg for a second here, which would be hard to do, but let's forget about it. Put that in the back of your mind. Put a pen in it. Yeah, let's take that leg and let's just, you know, let's just put it like behind the couch for a minute for later, put it in the fridge for a minute. Let's talk put a pen in it. Yeah, let's take that leg and let's just, you know, let's just put it like behind the couch for a minute

for later, put it in the fridge for a minute. Let's talk about something else. You have this peaceful, tranquil place. You try to help somebody out, it sounds. You're trying to help them use their money smarter. So he's trying to get her like, listen, I think you're the good guy here. Yeah.

I think you are the good person. This guy is not, you know what I mean? You're a nice lady, this is all good, so. I think you are the good person. This guy is not. You know what I mean? You're a nice lady. This is all good. Teaching them consumer math on the fly. Meanwhile, I'm taking the card and all that, but he's trying to spin it so it's like I am on your side. You're trying to help them use their money smarter, not drink a 12-pack every night and

get wasted. I get that. He then said, you seem like a legitimately good person who tried to do the right thing by these people He said Robert had some issues. It's actually documented in police reports that I pulled up He said so I know Robert had some issues He could get loud and drunk and cause problems and maybe ruin that peaceful tranquil tranquil place you built for yourself out there you know what I mean and She said the only time

I was disturbed by him was when he made a bunch of noise, which is exactly what that guy just said. That's what I just said. Exactly. Then he saw that was going nowhere. So he goes, would you rate, would your pigs eat a person? and She said I've heard of pigs eating people I joke about it. I mean I have a weird sense of humor I've seen Deadwood I get it. I know what happens. Yeah, he's asking her very specific questions They're very uncomfortable and if I'm not under arrest, I'm fucking leaving. Yes. I'm absolutely going listen I told you I don't know anymore. Yeah, but I feel like. There's weird questions. I feel like if you're not under arrest

and they have found a leg at your house, if you say, okay, I'm leaving, they're gonna go, now you're under arrest. You're staying, actually, no. We're gonna hang on to you because there's body parts at your house. We wanted to do this more casual-like because you say casual, but now we can't.

And I think they know too that Susan's smart. And if you, if you come at her hard, she's going to shut down or ask for a lawyer or leave or whatever. Yeah. Or that could happen too. And go, ho ho ho ho. Give you the heejee beejee's. You never know. So he then said, look, when I told you there was a leg by your place You didn't even change expression like because she didn't she was just like, hmm He said if I found a leg by my place I'd be pretty freaked out Super freaked out and Susan says well, I'm not freaked out. I'm fairly surprised

Fairly surprised and they go well the leg goes to a person It's to a per and she said well. I don't even know if you're telling me the truth right now Flips it and says I don't even know if there is a leg at my fucking house. You could be full of shit He said she said you just might be making up stories trying to get me to say something else yeah and the guy goes well obviously the leg is from a person. And she said, well, I don't know that. I don't know that you're telling me the truth. And then they said, well, how the hell would a fucking leg

get out there? And she says, the only logical explanation I have is, I don't know, somewhere, I don't don't know then she says you ever see Star Trek What Flips the script hard I don't know being honest. Have you heard a Spock? Do you know still well? She said quote I'm half Vulcan and half Klingon very logical What the half Vulcan half Klingon is my ethnic makeup in case you're wondering.

You know, I don't know, what are you, Italian, Irish? I'm a pointy ears and I'm very logical. So that's what she says. So that's all my thing. If it came from, if there's part of a leg, there must be more of a body, but I don't know shit about it. So then they go back talking about other people that used to live there. And they're like, okay, what about this guy? He used to live there He went somewhere but people have talked to him since and they know him and she goes well, yeah He left my place Yeah, I heard from him two three months ago and he was thinking about moving back to my place and they said but you know

That he still exists, right? Yeah, and she said yeah, I know he still exists. And they're like, okay. So then she goes into out of nowhere, she just starts getting very like, oh, like flustered and gets a rag and wipes her face off and said that, look, I haven't been able to look in the mirror for the last two years. I've not looked in a mirror. I haven't been able to look in the mirror for the last two years, I've not looked in a mirror. I haven't been able to take a bath in two years.

I just take a cloth and wipe my face. And I'm just, you know, I'm miserable and I have this fucking horrible condition and I haven't been able to take a bath. And they listen to her do this for about a minute and a half, two minutes of her talking about that. And there's like a second pause and they go, Susan, what do you think the chances

we're gonna find the rest of Robert are? They just ignore all of that. Listen, I get you're a dirty pig, listen. Listen, we built rapport before, I'm done with that. Now we're asking murder questions. Fuck rapport at this point. I wanna talk about how itchy you are from the dirt. Let's talk.

So she said, in the goings on, you know, between where his stuff is on in the trailer, maybe he might've fallen down. Um, and she said, but you guys have been down there. I was down there. I never saw anything. They said, have you ever fed your pigs any other animals before? Oh, let's start with that and move our way up. Basically. Any other mammals? Yeah. she said well a couple weeks ago

I went and made some stew and I put some bones in the liquid to add flavor to it before I made this made the meal and They said well, what are the pigs and then she gave them the bones afterwards out of the out of the stew They said well, what yeah, what are the standards? Well, soaked in, you know, stew stuff. What do the pigs do when they eat the bones like that, like that? Do they crunch or, um, and she said, yeah, most of the bones, you know, I know of that. And she talks about her big, she, she had a skull of one of the pigs. So the pigs will eat each other too, but there's a big skull. And they said said so they didn't eat up the skull then no and they said so if if a human ended up in there

Then it's not likely they'd eat it up, you know They said the human skull that you know, none of that stuff right they wouldn't eat the human skull And so she says well a pig skull is a lot bigger than a human skull. So I don't know Yeah, so they might eat a human skull, well, a pig skull's a lot bigger than a human skull, so I don't know. Yeah, that's true. They might eat a human skull, but not a pig skull. They couldn't get their mouth around that piece. Perhaps something smaller, I don't know. So they said, Susan, our intention is to go find

the rest of Robert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she said yes, and they said, we're gonna search until we find the rest of Robert. Like, you know, kind of have to, it's kind of our job. They make us, if you find a leg, they go, we gotta find a matching set for the rest of Robert, like, you know, kind of have to, it's kind of our job. They make us, if you find a leg, they go, we got to find a matching set for the rest of that, right? Yeah. I go, I found a leg, uh, boss. Uh, the chief says, keep looking. Yeah. This isn't Mr. Potato Head. There's more and find it. This is crazy. Very few people are just

a leg. They just sawed it off. It's not, don't need that anymore. Threw it in the yard. Yeah. So they said, and then we we're gonna compare, you know We're gonna make sure that the parts that we find belong to the same person we're gonna get DNA and we're gonna make sure it's Roberts or someone else's and and We need to know if you have any knowledge of anything that happened to them They said listen sometimes things happen that we have no control over or we didn't mean for them to happen This is happens, which this is the happened that we have no control over or we didn't mean for them to happen. This happens, which this is the minimizing it.

You're not a monster. You're just a person that was in a bad situation. Anybody would have done what you did. Sometimes you got to take a leg. Yeah. You see cops in interrogation rooms with people that have killed their children, beat them to death and go, I hit my kids all the time. So what?

You hit him. The little bastard hits his head on something. That's your fault now. And the guy will go, I know! And then they slap the cuffs on him and say, you piece of shit, and he's done. So yeah, they go on trying to basically alleviate her of guilt, so she'll admit to it,

so they can arrest her for murder. You know, you know how they do. So, you know, they go, you know, for various things happen for various reasons and we hide things and you know we don't expect you know as they're going into this she just puts this conversation on a hard stop and says quote if my pigs did eat Robert would you kill my pigs huh pardon what was that excuse me they said I mean obviously this shocks the shit out of the cops that you would say that

So yeah, the guy seems flustered. He goes. Well, I I don't know I've that's that's something we'd have to look at like that's not really on the books You know what I mean? Yeah, what the penalty is for pig on man crime. We really isn't Like if your dog ate a kid It depends was the dog I don't know if the laws are in the books over that. Like if your dog ate a kid, it depends. Was the dog fed that food only, or did it like go attack and kill the child? Also dogs and pigs are different.

Are these attack pigs? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, I think pigs are all the same. Pigs eat whatever you put down. Pigs are wild animals. Yeah, that's probably true. They're not really controllable when it comes to what they eat whereas a dog, you know I don't know if a dog attacked a kid. They blame you for that. I don't think they blame you for a pig attacking someone

so they said it's a really obviously the oddest question ever but She's concerned about the fate of her pigs here, which is the strangest part of this whole thing. It's really weird. I Don't know at her mind though. This the pigs are you know, they're not in the wrong at all if they did eat him That's just no just being pigs Yeah, pigs being pigs pigs are being pigs. So they go. Well, why don't you just tell us what happened? How about that? Why don't we start from because we're talking about a leg and you're talking about what if my pigs ate a guy? Let's put our cards on the table here. Let's you know, let's just see what we both have in our hands here. One of the one the poker match. So she said everything I told you was the truth. And they said, but she said up until about a week after Bobby had called me, that's one of Robert's sons, who said I don't know where my dad is, do you know? She said I don't know when,

but sometime about a week after Bobby called, I went down to the pig. So he had been gone a week apparently, or he had been missing a week from the kids. The kids said they called, he wasn't around. She said I went down and he was, he was like half eaten. Yeah. Oh, that's, that's information. So the cop goes by what the pigs, he was half eaten by the pigs.

What are we talking about here? She goes, it was early in the morning. I would go, Oh, I'd cross my leg for that. Okay. Let's, let's settle in for a story. I would go, oh, I crossed my leg for that. Okay, let's settle in for a story. Let's cross applesauce, let's hear it. The sun was just rising over the rolling hills as the fog broke in the morning, in the morning dawn. And she said, and I saw what happened, his guts were all over the place.

And the cop goes, uh, which is great. And she continues, he was still alive. I knew he wasn't gonna be alive for more than, you know, a few more minutes. His guts are out. You know, his guts are out. Yeah, if you can pick out someone's internal organs, because they're next to them,

they probably aren't gonna live that much longer, I would say. You can see a hole, and out of that hole comes guts. Hey, is that a pancreas? That's a bad sign. Yeah. So she said, I went back up to my house and I got my gun and I shot him in the head.

Oh, I euthanized a person on my property. Yeah, she said I had to put him out of his misery, is what she said. Now, this is fucking wild, number one. First of all, if you found your pigs eating a person who worked on your property, I would assume you would probably call somebody for that. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. At least 911. Tell, I don't know who they're gonna send, but you leave that on them. You call 911, they send over whoever they need to, the pig unit, the, I don't know who they're gonna send, but you leave that on them. You call 911, they send over whoever they need to. The pig unit, the, you know, whatever they gotta send out there, I don't know. So.

I don't wanna be disparaging police officers, but. Why? Who cares? It's all of them. Yeah, I don't know what kind, like the wildlife fuckin' unit. The pig unit's not. I don't know. It's a bit redundant. Yeah, it's't know what kind like the the wildlife fucking unit

Different one So she then said I don't want to I didn't want my pigs to be shot Yeah, and I didn't want my pigs to be shot for something. That's natural Because you know, I take the pigs get hungry, you know, and if he was out there I don't know what happened to start with They said she said if he went out and you know started doing was out there, I don't know what happened to start with. And he said, she said, if he went out and, you know, started doing something to them, I don't know. She said, I can't see that my pigs would go ahead and do something to somebody without cause.

My pigs are real good. They're real moral like that. I noticed about my pigs like they don't fuck with people. I will. They will. It's not a mistake that they are very Old Testament, these pigs. I'll tell you what, right now, they have beliefs and they're strong by them.

Eye for an eye. And you know, oftentimes when I shoot one in the fucking face, they all say, we saw that. Yeah. Watch your back, Sue. Yeah, they know what's going on. So she said, they've always been very friendly with me. They're still very friendly with me. I don't want to say I didn't want to say anything

and you know, I was afraid you were going to go out and shoot my pigs. What a thing to say. The cop because the cop is like, I'm sure the cops like, I'm so sick of hearing about these pigs. Fuck the pigs because the cop goes Yeah, that's not going to happen right now. Okay, we're going to look into that into that and but you know tell me like back to the beginning what happened You just told me you shot a man you shot a man in the head to put him out of his misery And then you're just just glossing over that to tell me about you're worried about the pigs Yeah, I'll go out there right now and blow every one of these pigs off. It doesn't matter. We're talking about a murder case

Okay, this is crazy. Yeah, fuck. So they said, how did you know Robert was in there? Did you hear a noise? What happened? Yeah. And they said, I came down in the morning and this was maybe it was over a month since I'd seen him last.

And because it was about the time when Bobby had called to ask me what was going on and I told him I had no idea And so he had been gone and he had been gone for over a month Okay, I mean he'd been gone for over a month and they said a month and she said yeah She said I came down to feed my animals and I just heard this moaning and stuff whoa And I heard screaming not not really a scream just moaning and moaning and his guts were out But he was he was still alive again, and he was moaning

And it was you know and he was moaning a little bit. She just kept saying he kept moaning So they go so what did you do then? She said I yelled at the pigs well obviously you wanna, bad pigs, that's bad. No. No. We don't eat guts. Charlotte, no webs tonight. No, we're not, no, don't you,

don't compliment these pigs tonight, I'm sorry. They are on punishment. A lot of trouble. We've had so many Charlotte's Web references lately. I don't know how it keeps coming up. In every show it comes up, I don't know how it keeps coming up and every show it comes up. I don't understand this. Yeah.

So, yeah, she said I yelled at the pigs and they were just doing their thing. They were just, you know, were having a lunch or breakfast. They were just having breakfast on him. On him. Not on him, of him, I think is what you want to say. Dining on him. Yeah and I could see that you know there was no way he was going

to be able to get to the hospital and live because his guts were out you know you'd have to pick up his intestines and put them in a Walmart bag and carry them with him. You know yeah. Gotta grab his spleen and put that in there. So she said I didn't think he had Got he had got any more to live than just a few more minutes But you know he and he didn't say anything he was just moaning So they said so but you went back into your house right, and they like work and she said yeah, I went back up and

Got my rifle and I saw and I shot him in the head. Like, duh, what the fuck would you do? Like she says it like very like, obviously I would shoot him in the head. I mean. He needed to, yeah. Yeah, like he was just, I don't know if she just thought of the people that worked on her property

as like other farm animals, like. Yeah, I mean, everything that's here, you put it out of its misery. Especially if their guts are hanging out, they can throw over their shoulder like a continental soldier. That's a problem. So, I don't know if she just thought like,

well if a goat of mine wandered into the pig pen and got half-eaten, I'd put the goat out of its misery. Like, I don't know if she just thought of Robert as like a goat, or like, I don't know. She thinks goats and people are on the same level. I don't know if just living by yourself on this property for a while would make you kind of skew your...

Yeah. I don't understand it. No? No? The answer is no. Farmers don't kill people and feed them to the pigs, do they? I don't have an agreement with the goat to build a house from the ground up.

That's true. Yeah, I don't have an exchange beer for cheese program going on with any goats on my property. So kind of welfare exchange program. Yeah, this is... Her fucking view of people is really low. Like Michael said, everything she said is odd. And it really is. Fucking weirdo.

Fucking weirdo. Give me the heebie-jeebies or the heebie-jeebies right now. Heebie-jeebies. Heebie-jeebies. That's it. Heebie-jeebies. I rewound that like 12 times to make sure. It's like I can't misquote.

He really says heebie-jeebies. This isn't just me trying to be funny here. And he thinks it's that, that's the best part. Yeah, he's like, and he said it like real like serious. She give me the heegee beegees, you know what I mean? Like he didn't stop and went, well, like, wait, that's not right, like none of that. So the cop asks, okay, you shot him in the head.

How many times did you do that? Great question. She said, I don't know. And I said, that? Great question. She said, I don't know. And they said, more than once? And she said, I don't know. You don't know? You don't know. So they said, so you're sure you did it once.

You're not sure if you did it. And she said, I don't know. I don't know. And they said, more times. And she said, I don't know. So that's the back and forth. And they said, well, after you shot him, then what happened? Let's go there.

Did he die immediately? And she said, yes. And he said, and then what did you do? She said, quote, I went and fed my other animals and I just left them there. Like, duh, what the fuck else would I do? And they said, so as far as you know, he was never moved from where the pigs are the pig pen and Yeah, she they said well what what reason why do you think he was in there?

And she said I have no idea why he would go into the pig pen. I have none at all And they said we are you angry were you angry at him when he came back? And she said well, I didn't see you angry at him when he came back? And she said, well, I didn't see him come back, so I couldn't have been angry. She said, yeah, he left for a month, came back, and next thing you know, he's being eaten by pigs. Came back to suicide himself in the pig.

Yeah, or I guess maybe try to steal pigs to sell. I don't know what her, she's trying to just debate here. Where he just came in and clocked back in, was feeding the pigs, and they got him. Yeah, but he doesn't feed the pigs. That's part of it is he doesn't go near the fucking pigs. She's the only one who deals with the pigs. So she can't even say that.

She said, you know, I was angry at him, angry at him and my kid and all that kind of thing and angry at my pigs for what happened. She said I was angry at everybody. I was angry at him and the pigs. Bad pigs. Bad pigs. Bad pigs. Bad pigs, bad ranch hand. Bad, yeah.

It's fascinating, she doesn't remember how many times she shot him, but she does know he died immediately. Immediately dead, yeah. So they said, the pen area you're talking about, is that gonna be right by the south of the barn, but pretty close to the barn? How close do you think it was to the barn

where the body was? And she's like, I don't know. So they said, so what happened? After you fed the rest of your animals and then check the pigs, obviously, the pigs are gonna do what they're gonna do. You can't stop them, all right? I get that.

So pigs are gonna be pigs. So if they're gonna come back to him if you were ever did you? Maybe were you originally trying to shoo the pigs off, but you know like but with leaving him there obviously They're gonna eat him and she just says yes. They said did you ever move any part of him out of the pen? And they said I mean there's got to be some path like even like even some things that pigs don't even eat like you Said they don't eat clothes right like they would be in there. Where are they and She said a few days later when most of him was gone I Went and I picked up the clothes I picked up a few parts that were left also

few parts just said you know like like a skull and an arm. And I'm not sure if there was the skull, if you go back out to my barn. And then she goes, well, let me draw you a little picture. She said, what's left of him is in a couple of plastic bags right there, okay, pointing at the picture. Wow. Um, she said, I, you know, they said, so you shot him in the head. She said, well, I didn't want to miss, you know, and I had to get close and shoot him

in the head. Jesus. And, um, they said, was he laying on his back or to the side or anything like that? And she said, well, on his back. And so, you know, I didn't know, I don't know what happened. There's a lot of kind of that back and forth. So they said, okay, so said, well on his back. And so, you know, I didn't know, I don't know what happened. There's a lot of kind of that back and forth. So they said, okay, so he's lying on his back. And she said, yeah, I think there was no way for him to be alive for more than a couple more minutes. I went up to my house, got my rifle, but you know,

I just turned my head and I shot. Just looked. They said, and okay. and then did you see anything like that? She said, I did see his heart move, his heart beating. He said, I never, yeah. He said, did you ever think maybe if you got an ambulance there, they might be able to do something about it? And she said, no, no, no, no, no. She said, no way.

It was, they were gonna take a half hour to get out there. It's the middle of nowhere. He was, you know no, no, no. She said, no way. It was, they were going to take a half hour to get out there. It's the middle of nowhere. He was, you know, his guts are already out. There's no way. They said there's no way he was going to live on past a couple of minutes, you know, cause she is a doctor also. So she said, and like I do with everything else, I don't like to see an animal suffer. I didn't want to see him suffering an animal. Right. I didn't want to see him suffering an animal

What the fuck man Then they said did you ever try to destroy? Anything you put into those burn barrels, okay, and She said no the clothes are still in there. They're all burnt up They said was there anything else you might have been in there put in there and burned burned up and maybe you know, it might've been in there and whatever. And she said, no, no, I haven't. I haven't emptied the burn barrel. So it's just hands full of ashes now. She's like, if you want to go through the burn barrel, there it is. I haven't emptied it, but whatever. So they said, were you worried using his cards as card after you knew he was dead that you

would get caught? And she said, no, that's dumb of you. Yeah. And they said, they go, well, I'm a little concerned about this. They said, I appreciate you being honest with what you've told us. Interesting. So she said though, the one thing though,

or the cop says, there seems to be something missing here that a person that never goes into the pig pen never feeds the pigs. How does he end up in there mysteriously? Yeah. Did he ever say, did he ever come to you and threaten you or, you know, say I'll kill your pigs maybe or something like that and he was going in there.

She said, nope, never came after me or threatened me. I'm like, okay, well that's not an out then. It's like, usually you give them the out before they admit to something, so that way it'll mitigate what they're about to say. She already admitted to murder and she's not taking the out. She's not taking the mitigator. She's like, nope, nope, just shot him in the head.

Trying to help you and you're just telling us that you're a murderer. Yeah, you're just telling us, wow. So they say, well, she's trying to say like it was a mercy killing. So she said, he never did anything to me. And the only thing he ever did to me was make a big mess. And I'm not shooting somebody over a mess because I made a big mess before too. I'm a messy gal. I'm a messy gal. No bath in two years. Messy.

So the cop says, you got to see this through my eyes. I mean, honest, think about this. If you're me. This story seems pretty convenient. And you know, what's going on here? And she said, well, I don't know how he got in there or why he'd go in there. I don't know anything like that, you know, anything at all, I just don't know. So they said, well, if he never threatened you,

never came up, you know, in rage and never did anything about this, never really pissed you off never was mad about Somebody stealing his stuff or doing anything about anything else So she said no if he had come to my house and threatened me I would have shot him and I would have called you immediately and told you I shot him So she's like if he threatened me there, so they said have you for are you frightened of the pigs? Are you frightened of them considering they can just take a grown man out quickly?

Yeah, she's, she's fear them. She said, no, I've never, I'm not frightened at all. I've never been frightened that I've had my 940 pound pig and that he would kill me in a minute if he wanted to, but he's very gentle. When he was about 400 pounds or something, I walked by and I was scratching the back of his neck and he hit me with his head and put a cut in my left leg right there.

That's the only time any of my animals have ever hurt me at all. And he was he was not being mean. He wasn't being mean at all. He just twisted his head, you know, and and he just did it by accident. So he said, I don't know why Robert would be out there. I don't know if he had been out there any time previous to that. And I have no idea what would happen to make them do that. She said, I could not look at him.

I couldn't do it. So I just heard a little bit of moaning and I saw his arm was moving a little bit and I just shot him. Yeah. So they said, you also mentioned that you don't like it when if you had a pig out here in the barn, you wouldn't be able to shoot them. You mainly right so it was important to have a good shot on the pig so they don't suffer. And she said that they said that's a human being asked out laying out there asking you

didn't look from what you are you didn't look at what you are. You didn't look at what you were saying. But did you at least did you at least place the end of the muzzle somewhere close to where you thought and She says I was I was probably maybe a foot and a half from his head at the end of the barrel. Yes Oh boy. Yeah, and there was a reason for that. I couldn't look at him and take aim or anything He was he was laying there I was standing here and I went like that and pulled the trigger But you know and they said like that and pulled the trigger, but you know, and they said, but you made sure the barrel was pointed at his head,

and she said, yes. They said, let me ask you this, Susan. Is it possible that we might find someone else out there, or remains from another person on your property somewhere? Is it possible that, you know, anything that we might find other things that aren't Robert? And she says, well, I don't know who that would be okay interesting and she said

I mean this is all too much for me I've lost my hair she starts going into that and they're like whoa she said it's yeah she said it's just very hard for me to sit here right now and even talk about it I just mean, you know Just I never leave my property and I wouldn't have today without putting I would not have today without putting my wig on and I Didn't wear my wig. She's freaking out because she's not wearing her wig. She's got a bald head totally Totally bald head just you know shaved bald So they said in your story about shooting Robert, I know that's true

You shot him when he was in the pig pen and I know that's true. But where else did you shoot him? People don't always die from the first shot on the 22. Where else was he shot at? She said, I have no idea. They said, was he standing up on the first shot? And she said, no, no, he was laying down on the ground. They're trying to get her to fuck up here.

They said, well, you know, we have the skull, right? I'm going to take a look at that skull, and I know how forensics are. And they go, I'm sure you watch that kind of stuff, and you understand how these things are thought of. And they said, we can take a look at it, and we can take it at all the angles, and we can put all the layers in and figure out

everything that happened. They said, if all those shots came and figure out everything that happened. Sure. They said, if all those shots came from the same area, yes, and we can also tell if it happened somewhere else, what angle he got shot at, all that kind of thing. They said, is there some other way that something we're gonna see that doesn't make sense in your story, like all that? And she said, well, I might've shot him six times. I really don't know. Oh, boy.

They said, Are we gonna have an angle that doesn't match your story? And she said, I have no idea. I have no idea. He was on the ground. I know that's true. And I know that. And I know that. They said, Okay, but can I also they said, There's some other missing parts. What happened there? And they said, did you feel responsible? Did you ask him to go out to feed the pigs and now you're feeling guilty about that? She said, no. They said, did you require him cleaning up something else

and now you feel guilty because he was cleaning in there? And she just said, I was lying there. He was lying there, I shot him. You know, I don't feel, He was lying there. I shot him. You know, I don't feel I feel guilty. Do I feel guilty for you know, the facts that my the pig ended up eating most of him? I do not feel guilty for causing his death. They said, okay, so your gunshots are what ended it and she said yes.

And yeah, shot him in the head. They said, did you ever point a rifle at anybody, any other person before that? And she said, well, while I was in the Navy, if I saw something suspicious, I would throw a hand grenade at it. Which is- Really?

I do that around my property too. Just, you know, if you go to the mall or something, you see something suspicious, you wanna throw a hand grenade at it just in case. There's a lot of grenades at shit. You never know. Oh boy. So yeah, so they said, so you value human life.

Great, sounds like you do. That's terrific, they said. She said, look, I'm trying to tell the truth. Then she says, I do not value human life very much. No, you don't because you can't compare to pigs. We know you value human life. And she said, actually, no, I don't. I'm gonna make this worse for myself

She said the only thing wrong with this planet is that there's people on it She said if all the other animals, you know If it wasn't for us, it would just be all the other animals and dodo birds and whatever else would still be here the cop goes, cop goes, okay. Like that's the weirdest thing anyone has ever said in the fucking interrogation. So they said, how did you feel about Robert? Um, you know, and she said, I don't know. I liked him, but I don't remember. So they said, do you watch crime shows on TV?

Here we go. She liked, she said, I like the British ones more than anything else. There's one called Rosemary in time and they go out and solve crimes where I mean, you know, it's one of those stupid things. You go out and trim a tree and find a body. Sure. And it, it, it, for the most part, it's things that are not plausible, you know? Whatever. So that's what they're talking about.

She said, I'm most comfortable at home, though. So she watches British crime shows. Rosemary in time. Yeah, they can be a little a little on the dull side. So she said that after a couple of days, she scooped up his remains, put them in garbage bags. Wild animal claimed she claimed a wild animal remains put him in garbage bags a wild animal claimed she claimed a wild animal must have got into the bags and dragged the leg out to where they found

it she said but she didn't tell the cops because she was afraid that they would kill her pigs they asked her to take a polygraph she says no problem but before I do you might want to get your pen and pad out because I got a couple more things to tell you. Okay. Here's a guy, Stephen Frank Delacino, or Delacino, one of the two. He's born in 1953. So they asked, well, what else might we find on your property? And she said, I guess Stephen Delacino,

and then she says, let me tell you this, and she starts saying how they met. She said, I guess he had a brain tumor and had epilepsy. He had brain surgery to remove the tumor and according to his brother, that left him kind of not the same and that things were, things that were not in his normal character after surgery.

About 20 years ago I met Steve at the residence of George and Beverly Guerrero. He was a seventh day Adventist and they had some property about five miles up the road for me and Steve lived in a little Airstream trailer and he did little jobs mostly just pulling up the grass and little things like that and You know for the ability to live in that little trailer George the husband died and the wife buried George in her vegetable garden Speaking of funny farm Found the rest of mr. Musselman

In this case whether that's gold or oil or mr. Musselman Claude muslim So they said you may find his horse He fucking around that's right. He had a horse. He never let blow so they They said this is where I look she said this is where I learned that you could bury people on your own property No, this is this is background from her from later. This isn't what she said in the interrogation. We'll go back to the interrogation in a minute, but I'm going to give you some background on this guy and their relationship.

You can't, but I mean there's ground and you can technically do it if you really want to. You certainly can in, I think you've got to get permitting or something for it, right? You can't just fucking open the ground and put bodies in there. No, I think you need some permitting or something for it, right? You can't just fuckin' open the ground and put bodies in there. No, I think you need some kind of, There's gotta be some paperwork somewhere. Some kind of like a waiver or variance or something for.

On Michigan, yeah, you gotta make sure it's fuckin' zoned for that. Uber zoned for, yeah, cemetery usage, I'm not sure that's okay. So they said that, she said, this is where I learned that you could bury people on your own property, and so she said, we know if you need to get a permit or they said that, she said, this is where I learned that you could bury people on your own property. And so she said, you know, we'd know if you need

to get a permit or something like that, didn't know. So she said, after George died, Steve started stealing from people up and down the roads. And like I said, he was slow mentally and he didn't understand a lot of things. He didn't understand that you could sell something that was worth $500 for $100. All he ever wanted to do was get enough

money to buy a case of beer. So he wouldn't try to get the best deal possible, just enough. She said he was a really nice guy. He was very much a gentleman all the time. He would open the doors for me and always wanted to carry things for me. Just a really nice guy. After George died, Beverly would not buy him any beer. So Steve is cut off from the beer here. He was always drinking nearly a case of beer every day. One day he took a rifle from me that was worth about $300. When I noticed it was gone, I went out to the pawn shop and bought two more rifles.

I was hoping that if he needed beer money again, he would take them, you know, because I was a contractor and I didn't want him to take the tools that I needed to work all the time. So she bought like fucking decoy items to steal. Steal these. Some Harbor Freight shit and left it laying around. Yeah, don't steal my circular saw.

Fucking here's my steel-less rifle. Put away your Milwaukee stuff and just leave out the shitty stuff. Yeah, no Makitas today Makitas today for you. So She said and then one day he decided he was going to Florida where he had a house and this made no sense to me because He had been living in a little airstream trailer For over ten years that I knew him and you know It was just irrational as far as I was thinking that he went living in this little trailer when he had a house in Florida

Irrational she's's talking about irrational. That's a great point. It's awesome, wow. I can't believe she could even recognize irrationality at this point, based on her statements to the cops. So she said, he went ahead and asked me for $100 and all, and he called me and said that he was leaving.

And I had tried several times to get him to stay where he was and move in With me and then he called and wanted me to pick him up. So I picked him up He was walking down the road nothing but the clothes on him back in the car He said he wanted a hundred dollars and when he was gonna go to Florida I tried to talk to him about it a couple more times. I gave him a hundred dollars from Oregon to Florida hundred dollars

Hundred-dollars cash. I mean, I don't even know what you couldn't you cost you more to ride a bicycle that far His hitchhiking, I don't know so and my next stupid mistake was that I asked him where And my next stupid mistake was that I asked him where, where he sold the rifle that I had. He went nuts. He thought I was gonna have him arrested for stealing. She said basically she just wanted to know who he sold it to so she could get it back. She'll go buy it back.

She said, I didn't know at the time, but he had hit me so hard with the butt of a rifle that he busted my right breast implant. Oh no. That's a good shot to bust an implant. So he went nuts, thought he was being accused of stealing, took a rifle and busted out her implant. So she said, I was just really, really sore. I couldn't stand the pain much longer.

I kept yelling at him to stop hitting me and he just wouldn't. Finally I had this,. Finally I had this little gun, he had a little like a derringer, and I took it and fired it. I said Steve stop hitting me you know and and or also I'm gonna I'm gonna shoot you. I went ahead and saw it I shot it again and missed. I was trying to shoot him in the upper arm. He pushed me really hard into the plumbing on my shower. I shot at the same time he pushed me back and I accidentally shot him in the head. Okay.

Accidentally. But all I did was make, all I did was something, I can't read that part. When they did the autopsy, they found the bullet just in his scalp. All it did was make him bleed. When he started yelling I'm gonna kill you I managed to get away for a couple of minutes so he chased me into another room and up into the barn and we were fighting some more. I went through and then she shot the pistol again and I managed to get a she threw

the pistol away and I managed to get a hold of the rifle that he was beating me with and then I kind of then he kind of the rifle that he was beating me with. And then I kind of, then he kind of kneeled down to grab my legs. While he was grabbing my leg, I managed to turn a rifle around on him. I was holding off, holding him off in the room and she said, well, I was holding on to a two by four

to keep from getting me down on the ground. I went ahead and took the rifle and I shot him He went again. I hadn't grabbed me even harder and I was holding the rifle with my left hand shooting at him I thought I had missed so he was yelling and Whatnot and when he didn't die, I went ahead and shot him a couple more times. This man took five rounds from close range of different weapons my god. I couldn't believe it but he was still holding on to my leg really tight and I didn't know it at the time. I'm pretty smart but you know nobody knows everything so I've learned this that I heard

about this thing called the death grip. So after some time I realized that he was dead after the first shot and then I tried to get out of there So yeah I let I let the two by fall for that I would fall that I was holding on to and I just tried to Get out of the way He was still holding on to my leg So I dragged him for a couple feet and I was letting yelling at him to let go and yelling at him I wasn't dead. It's already dead

I wasn't calling the sheriff's or anything and then I decided to go out to the other door that was in the barn There I went to my big pen because it was closer and I stepped over Steve and when I stepped over him to let To get out to the other door. He let go I guess of the leg finally I went out the door and I didn't even think about it, but I didn't close the door I was just trying to get away from him so I managed to get out the side door of the barn. And then I went out the gate that leads to the front part of the barn. I went out that gate came around went into my little room and barricaded the door so Steve couldn't get in. Okay, just shot the fuck out of him. I went ahead and

clean myself up. I had blood on my back from where I had been pushed into the plumbing. And then I just waited there. I just sat there cleaning myself up a little bit. I think it was about an hour, an hour and a half. I don't know how long it is, but I yelled for Steve and didn't hear any answer. So I thought he had left. You don't know how bullets work very well. And then I went down and I went to where, where we had the fight and he was just laying there and my pigs were licking him. And I went ahead and tried to shoo them out and I get a second one out

while the third one and the first two would come back again. So every time she'd get one pig out, they'd come back and it was just like a whack a pig. So she said, I was still reeling in a lot of pain, having a hard time standing up. So I figured they would just leave them alone after a while. I'd come back in a couple hours I went and laid down tried to clean myself up a little bit more then I went back Out there to see what to do with Steve and my pigs had dragged him

Had dragged him out of the barn and there wasn't anything I could do then I just figured out just wait till morning. So I got up early the next morning and went out. They had been eating on him the next day. I mean, wow, I tried to get Steve away from them, but it was it was useless. I mean, my pigs all day, they weighed three or 400 pounds and they, you know, so yeah, they just kept eating the pigs. She said she kept they kept eating the guy. So she said I never went in anywhere around the pigs in the pen without a broom handle. That's what I usually had So the broom handle or just the back of your hand if you hit a pig on the nose, it'll back up They don't like they don't like being hit on the nose So she said also she said they're very strong

You can take a bunch of bananas and throw them underneath a Volkswagen and they will take the top of their nose and they will lift that Volkswagen up and turn it over to get to those bananas, meaning a bunch of pigs. She said they're very powerful. And yeah, she said you could take a two by four and bust it over their heads

and they just kind of look at you. So. We got it, lady. We knew it. They're strong and they eat people. Any other examples? If an elevator falls down, they could save the people. That's the thing.

You see here, the thing is, if you're on the island from lost, right, and you had a pig. So she said that. What I'm saying is they shouldn't do horsepower. It's been baffling me my whole life. It's pig power. I mean, let's find about pig power.

I mean, they don't run real fast, I mean for a for just a straight strength like maybe for bulldozers and shit they could be pig power. We should do torque in pig power. She said the next day I took my backhoe and I put my backhoe over the next uh next close next to the fence I dug a hole backhoe over the next, uh, next close next to the fence. I dug a hole and then when I put it back in over the fence, I went to the pig pen. I managed to get Steve into the bucket so I could lift him over the fence and then went ahead and buried Steve. I just put him down in the grave and then I took a shovel and I shoveled some dirt on top of them and that's all I could do for the day. So that's what happened. That's what she says happened to Steve. That's what she says.

Like nowadays, a couple of years ago, she said that about what happened to the Steve guy. So back in the interrogation room, though, she draws drew a map of her property in the middle. She put an X and she looked at the cops and she said, right there, that's where you're going to find Steve So yeah, the Steve de la Sino was the handyman on his property. He was there a year before Robert got there Oh boy, so that's this was summer of 2012 this happened. So this is when she started noticing she could just disappear These kind of transient workers

So she you know She told them that two of her guns went missing and she said she found them in his belongings and confronted him. She said they got in some sort of wrestling match. The gun went off and she shot him in the back of the head. She said that he stood up and chased her toward the barn where she picked up the rifle. Same thing. She said at one point during the struggle, Steven was down on his knees. She's above him. She picked up the rifle,

shot him in the head Fed him to the pigs and buried whatever was left She said that she left the body in the pig pen quote until there was practically nothing left This is what she's telling the cops in the interrogation room so Now she came in just talking about a buying cheese now Now she came in just talking about buying cheese. Now she's admitted to two people being dead, eaten, and buried on her property. And she said nothing about it to anybody.

No. So they said, let me ask you this here, Susan. Are there any other dead bodies on your property? We know about Steve and we know about Robert. What else? And she said, and this is what the cop said later, quote, she told me that if she had told me about these 17 others that she would then spend the rest of her life in jail.

So she didn't wanna tell him anymore. She said she had 17 other bodies buried out there. We got two is enough for the rest of your life. Plenty. Just tell us. Yeah, just the one is good probably. So she said, it's not that I wanna kill anyone anyone but I get anxious if there's someone in my way anxious and I kill them I Have an urge to murder her when they're in my way

Wow She said I'm not I'm not in the psychological situation where I would become a mass murderer and you just you know go into a school and start killing people or going into a crowd and blowing myself up or something like that, my general feelings when I get these anxiety attacks is more homicidal than suicidal. That's what she says, but she doesn't wanna do

any mass murder, she just wants to kill people who piss her off. Self-preservation. For causing her anxiety, you know how it goes. mass murder, she just wants to kill people who piss her off. Self preservation. For causing her anxiety, you know how it goes. So then they go out and do a second search of the property, obviously here. And while executing the second search, they find the remains of both Robert Haney

and Steve D'Alessino, basically exactly where she said they were. He was in the bags, Robert was in the bags where she said, and he had stuff in the burn barrel too, clothes and things like that, and Delacino was buried right where she said he was buried. So now they, now they, this is,

because at first they had said that she shot Steve because, just because, but then when they come back to her about it, that's when she comes in with the self-defense Very so my guns that attacked me when I said something about it She says quote it's up to the medical examiner's Office to determine the cause and manner of death. The most important thing at the time is that we have a suspect That's what they announced to the public here now is that we have a suspect. That's what they announced to the public here. Now, the sergeant here, Sheriff Sergeant Nathan Sickler

had his video camera walking up the driveway to document the search here. And the camera, they say, quote, captured a cornucopia of code violations ranging from open raw sewage and improperly stored tires to buildings eventually condemned and deemed unfit for humans. It was the first time the farm's conditions

reached the county's radar screens, but that was because she had no trespassing signs up everywhere. Yeah, and she probably didn't apply for any fucking permits for any of this. And that's the thing, and they said that we, they said, well, how come this was never looked into? And the person from the county said,

we do code enforcement actions when we have a complaint. We never had a complaint. Right, a complaint or an application to do things. Yeah, to look at it. If none of that exists, then nobody cares. So they said that they became sickened during the search of the farm, and they had to wear breathing apparatuses

while combing through garbage. You don't wanna end up like Gene Hackman's wife there. That's not good. They said we don't know. Yeah, they said we don't know if it was something we were exposed to or what, but they got everybody got sick afterwards. The whole team got they said we don't know if it's the flu or or whatever this was or yeah, Jesus Christ. So yeah, they said they gotta bring in special hazardous materials inventory before they can do anything and think about any cleanup crew.

They said, there's a pre-existing unsafe condition there. Precursor knowledge of some risk would require some sort of hazardous site evaluation. Someone needs to evaluate the conditions of the site with the appropriate gear to be there, and that's certainly not me. This one guy says, not me, motherfucker. Nope, you need to get people in those nuclear fallout suits

and get their asses in there, because I ain't doing it. Those bunny suits are very useful here. Oh yeah, now the neighbors, what did the neighbors think about her? Because we haven't really talked about them. Some of the neighbors said that they're not surprised that Susan Monica's in police custody. One neighbor said that Susan admitted to this neighbor

to having homicidal tendencies. Yeah, one guy right close by says, I walk my dog on this road every day, so it's become home for us. But a little nervous it's right here in our backyard. So it's definitely an eye-opener Yeah, they said they're not used to seeing this in a small town He says don't see a lot of crime don't necessarily hear about a lot of crime And that's part of the reason we live out here is just because of that

Another neighbor said it's horrific. It's unbelievable, but surreal. It's the Twilight Zone Another neighbor said it's horrific. It's unbelievable, but surreal. It's the Twilight Zone That seems to be the this would be a Twilight Zone episode like consensus is yeah, man This is fucking there's yeah something on the way you get you go to a farm and you never leave and it's like a weird You know like that could be a Twilight Zone episode sure Maybe it was I haven't seen a book or anything like that guy. Yeah something Yeah Maybe it was. I haven't seen him. Stephen King book or who wrote anything like that? Who wrote anything like that? It's that guy, yeah. Something, yeah. So another neighbor said they were stunned to hear what's happening right across the gravel driveway

of her Rogue River home in Weimer. She says, it's unbelievable that it's going on in my little neck of the woods. Yeah, can't happen here. That's the whole point of this. That's the point of the show. Didn't you know about Small Town Murder? I always thought she was a bit of an odd duck,

but a lot of people that live out in the country are odd ducks. These are people who moved out, either they were born and raised here, or they moved out here because they don't like people. That's why they came here. Or because they're not good at people. They're not good at people, yeah.

This is kinda, this is like if you had like pieces from like 50 puzzles that were like extra that you couldn't figure out and then you said, we'll take all these pieces and try to make a puzzle out of that. Even though they're from all different puzzles. That's what's going on here. These are all kind of discarded puzzle pieces

that come out here. We just can't people, we need to be out here. No. So they said that the neighbor said that Susan had people mostly transients in and out of her home. She said this neighbor said, she was really hard on them, I guess. They would scream and yell and have fighting matches

and all of that. The neighbor says, most people would usually only stay there was like two months and then they were gone. Now we're wondering what it means by they were gone. Then another neighbor said, I didn't like the look in her eye and it threw up all kinds of cautious signs for me Okay, yeah

so Wow, they said it's gonna be a whole lot safer for a lot of people out there is what one neighbor said a Former tenant who lived in this area or he lived on the farm here Patafon Panna is the name Patafon Panna is the name. Pataphon Panna told. That's very close to Hannah Montana. Wow, that is Pataphon, P-A-T-I-P-H-O-N, Pataphon. Wow.

Wow. Is that you too? Oh no, a worker told the newspaper in the area that Susan not only fed dead sheep to her pigs, but also shot three of his pets and fed them to the pigs as well. Oh my god She just uses the pigs as a garbage disposal apparently this is yeah He told the newspaper that before he bought a house and moved away Susan Monica shot two of his dogs and one of his cats and used them for feed

When she killed my dog I asked where it was and she said, quote, in with the pigs. Holy shit. A local resident says that you don't believe them, right? You just go now. You think especially if they go home afterwards, like Andre the giant. So they said local resident Bonnie Wheeler said that she occasionally did odd jobs for Susan last year and that Susan threatened her when they had a falling out. She said quote quote she used to talk to me to me and my friend or to my friend about killing me and feeding me where Jimmy to the pigs to the pigs to the pigs. who did jobs on the property said this is Mark Alan Riccardi. He said he knew something was wrong when he stepped into Susan Monica's property. He said I never felt right. There was something wrong. He said he worked for her on multiple occasions doing side jobs.

He said at the time something was wrong and bad and I could feel it strongly. He said it's been a couple of years since he's been on the property. He said that he left when she started yelling at him. He wasn't gonna take that shit. You can yell at me if you're paying me money, but not to sleep in a barn. Do we know when the first time she fed somebody to a pig or anything to a pig?

Seems like 2012 is the closest, because that's when the Stephen D'Alessino was being fed to the pig. She loves, she loves British shit. I wonder if she learned this from snatch 12 years too late but not only that that lines up with 2012 lines up with when she stopped bathing and everything too and hair started popping out of her head so if you shoot people and feed them to pigs and bury them on your property actually start worrying whether or not you're gonna get arrested yeah

you start stressing you start getting anxiety and bury them on your property. Perhaps you start worrying whether or not you're gonna get arrested. Yeah, you start stressin', you start gettin' anxiety, and then it fucks your whole, everything kinda spirals out from there, I think, so. How do you make a chest cavity disappear? I don't know how the fuck you do that. You make a skull disappear. It doesn't work. Clothes, everything else.

So this guy says he could feel something was wrong and bad. He said, I'm glad I picked up my tools and left because I just find out now what's happened out there. That scares me, you know? He said that Susan also didn't pay him for the work he did. And this is something that he said he's heard from a lot of other people. A woman whose family member worked for Susan before

said a lot of times people say they didn't get paid. He said, the Riccardi guy said, even though he never got his money, he's glad he left. He said, I walked out of there and said, I'll never come back to this place again. And he has it. So a little more shit about Susan here. Staff at the Rogue River Community Center food pantry had some things to say about Susan who frequently came in there. Yeah, they all, even the ones that didn't weren't scared of her, Susan said there was something off about her, her personality. They said that she would visit about once a month for the last eight years or so. The director of the

center said she was a very pleasant, generous person. It's the usual story, oh that person's really nice and it's just shocking, she said. That's the usual story. Oh that person's really nice and it's just shocking she said. That's the director but other people there who knows that the director worked with her all the time or whatever. The director's upstairs in a chair. Yeah the one other person said she was very standoffish so I wasn't surprised. No. Wasn't surprised she murdered people. Makes sense. Yeah she said that her family had done work on the property. She said Susan told her that Susan had cancer.

She said over the past few years she lost her hair and she wasn't the same Susan that she started off being. Most of the pantry workers agreed with that saying something was off. One person said she was kind of normal but she was also somewhat scary. I felt uncomfortable and I can't tell you why when she would come in. So they also said that she lived like very close with her animals and always talked about her pigs.

Now the DA's office and the medical examiner here positively identify Robert Haney as the belonging to the leg and the parts in the bags. Yeah, so that is, I mean, I knew that, but now it's confirmed. So they said that she was probably murdered, he was probably murdered in early September 2013. They identified him through the FBI

National Fingerprint Database, so that's helpful. I can't believe that they still had fingerprints, they maybe have something, how would they still have fingerprints? How would he still have fingerprints that long after? Yeah, how would they, hmm. That's crazy. The actual body itself? Yeah, I don't know how they would do that.

I mean, he was out there for over four months. Yeah, that's not, there's nothing, there's no tissue left. That would be the first tissue to go, would think would be like that kind of soft Mammified cuz I don't think they've shown mummies mummies that have fingerprints still maybe Year-old fucking corpses on the side of fucking I don't think they were they were eaten by pigs first though, probably great point I don't know. That's it. They're up there sucking sucking on fingers munching on fingertips there So anyway, they said that they did an autopsy

but no information was released right away. Anyway, so Stephen Delacino. The authorities said that the Oregon State Police Crime Lab identified the remains of Stephen Delacino also. He was 59 years old, by the way, he was Delacino. She hires these guys in their 50s to do like hard labor, which is weird. Yeah and then like the Michael Bales guy was a real little guy looked like he was maybe five foot two and but he looked like he was

like you know 28, 30 something like that like guy you'd hire to move stuff around I couldn't. Anybody in their 50s I'm like one day of work on this ranch you're gonna have back problems aren't you? And not just that, but like, they're 50-something year old men with like, health issues like alcoholism and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, they're not healthy people. That's not a strong guy. They're mostly transients who,

I don't think they've been taking that great a care of themselves, so, or vagrants is the one guy who put it. Right. So the medical examiner said that they found some of the remains in a plastic bag. Right. So the medical examiner said that they found some of the remains in a plastic bag. Yeah. And they testify later a forensic anthropologist says that Haney's legs had been chopped off with an axe. An axe. Not even like a power saw. She took an axe and

Kathy Bates to this fucking person. That is insane. Remember when we all saw misery and went, oh my god, chopping his legs up with an axe? That's the craziest fucking thing I've ever seen. Oh, I'm sorry, that's the book. The movie, she bashes him with a sledgehammer. And the sledgehammer, right, right, right. In the book, she chops his feet off at the ankles. I got him mixed up, so the book's better by then.

But with an axe, that can't be a one-blow thing, right? Fuck no! You gotta's gonna with that thing I Chop firewood it takes more than that to get through a small piece of wood for fuck's sake never mind a femur You know what I'm saying? What is not easy and that yeah? Yeah, yeah, this is dry This is this is fucked up so they said that the thigh bones showed signs of being gnawed by an animal as well. So they said that they could not determine whether the ax blows came before

or after he died. Let's hope after. She said that Delacino suffered three or four gunshot wounds to the head there. So are there 17 bodies? That's another thing. They go out looking for them. They're digging up little, they have like holes all over the place. It looks like an army of groundhogs invaded this fucking place. They said that they found no additional bodies during a search of the farm.

So she just made that shit up to freak them out or something. They dug more than 50 holes looking for people and didn't find anybody. So she just made that shit up to freak him out or something. They dug more than 50 holes Looking for people and didn't find anybody They said also the pigs that she kept on the farm have been euthanized Yeah, so she did all this and the pigs were put down anyway. That's yeah, they got they're like sharks now Forget about it a former resident of the property property said, another person said he saw Monica feed dead house pets and livestock to the pigs as well.

They've got some taste of all kinds of animals. They got the taste for mammal blood. Oh boy. So they are gonna charge her with two counts of murder, two counts of abuse of a corpse in the first degree, and one count of identity theft, which makes sense. She pleads not guilty. And this is before the pigs have been destroyed, by the way.

She's pleaded not guilty and asked for donations so her pigs can be slaughtered and given to a community food bank. We don't want your people pigs. We don't want our bacon to, yeah, with a slight taste of vagrant. Yeah, I don't want our bacon to. Have some ham and eggs with. Yeah. With the slight taste of vagrant. Yeah, I don't want that. Grass fed.

What'd you make this morning? Steven? No. Oh boy. So the judge ordered that she be held without bail and she said, I'd like the people of Rogue River to donate a small amount of money so I can have my pigs butchered

and the meat given to the community center. Wow. So, anyway, I didn't even know what to say about that. They did say the center cannot accept any meat donation unless it's processed and certified under the US Department of Agriculture guidelines. That's the way that works there. Gotta have that.

So they said that the, she said they question whether the center would accept donations of pigs even if the meat were properly processed because they know it's been fucking human that's been eating humans. Yeah, no. So pre-trial here, the trial council moves to suppress the evidence obtained

as a result of executing the first search warrant. The first search warrant is some kind of typo or some shit on it. There's something wrong. Because in the beginning of her interrogation, they start reading the search warrant. She goes, well, that's wrong right there. So never mind. You guys have nothing. That's wrong.

It's wrong. I don't know what it's an address or something. But the argument focused on whether the use of a benefit card during that period was considered Was considered sufficient enough to establish probable cause for search warrant. So she's going beyond that to the probable cause They said that the the council did not argue that the search warrant was overly broad and allowing law enforcement to search the property But not be on the dwellings the trial court denied the motion to suppress. So At that point, this is fucking crazy, a rogue river man who's accused of burglarizing the home of Susan Monica.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Went in that disgust. What did they steal? What were you gonna take? Rotten food? There's raw sewage exposed on the property. Jesus Christ, Jared Garwood was convicted of attempted kidnapping and assault in March of that year

but was arrested again shortly after his release. He served six months for attempted kidnapping and assault. That seems light. But now he's going back to prison for burglary and mail theft. He was arrested last October. This is after, this is the year that she's in jail, basically, for burglarizing her home.

According to the sheriff's deputies, they found several stolen items at his home. Attorneys said they also picked up a bag of mail that wasn't his. During his sentencing, he asked the judge for another chance. Judge says, you got six months for kidnapping, you stupid idiot. One more try.

He said, I really want to get this together, your honor. I really do need, I really do and I need this opportunity to please prove to you that I could do this. The judge says, quote, you tested positive, you pick up new charges, you're associating with people you shouldn't be associating with so we are going to proceed with sentencing today Two and a half years of prison fuck off We told you don't do drugs. You're still doing drugs and you're stealing mail Basically, we had turn work conditions of your release and you violated all of them and now you want to fuck ourselves So yeah, fuck yourself.

Yeah. So, during this, Susan is attempting to fire her defense attorneys. She claimed in court that her attorneys are not properly investigating her defense, and they seem more interested in her mental health. Oh. Yeah, because they have to deal with you on a daily basis.

So if you can't assist them in helping, they want to know if you're crazy, and maybe they can use that as something. That helps. So interesting. The judge declined to let her fire the attorneys and let her represent herself. That would have been a fucking party.

You think this Lori Vallow trial is crazy. By the way, we'll talk about that on Patreon, but holy shit, this lady representing herself would have been fucking bonkers, man. They would have had to sell tickets for that. Nope, they couldn't even, there would have been thousands of people at court every day to see that spectacle of her arguing with people

about what pigs eat and don't eat. That would have been crazy. And what the pigs names are. Do you remember Fido? Yeah. He says the judge says he'll give her the chance to represent herself down the line, but not at this stage of the case. Maybe when we talk about sentencing. How about that? Yeah. So 2015, the trial comes around. She is allowed to represent herself. What?

But is also allowed to use counsel when she feels it's necessary. So every day? Yeah, so all the time. Now every state is different with what you're allowed to do. Like some states, you can represent yourself and you can have a counsel, and you can pick which one of you and Tara talks to whichever witness

and you know, that sort of thing. Like Arizona, Arizona's different. Like. Yeah, they let you just do the whole goddamn thing. Lori Vallow, I remember the pre-trial, the judge told her, look, you can do this, but if at any point you hand it off to your advisory counsel, that's it.

You're not allowed to come back on as council. You're done. We're not gonna go back and forth when you feel comfortable. You're either your council or you're not. You're not on the bench until otherwise needed. You're not a specialty. You're it or not.

So Lori's been doing it all. She can't, nobody else can do it, which is insanely detrimental to herself in her case. So it's really amazing. So in the opening statements, the prosecution points out that Susan had an evolving story. She's brutally murdered people. He said, quote, she shoots them in the head. That's what she does. It's real simple. She can say whatever she wants, but in the end, that's how she kills these people. It's how both guys were shot multiple gunshot wounds to the head. So they said

Talks about the details. They describe how the pigs ate them in there. The guts are spilling out They're eating his internal organs One guy said they the one of the lines is they're licking the blood on his head They're licking the blood of his head. They're licking the blood of his head, not on his head, of the blood of his head. Sounds like an overly dramatic Italian guy. He's licking the blood of his head, of his head. Body of Christ, the blood of Steve. Susan claims, yeah, she shot him to put him out of his misery. That's what the defense says. So and then then self defense is the other one. So one's a mercy killing the other self defense.

That's it. She said that quote, they were doing their thing, meaning the pigs. Her attorney gives the opening, that's smart. And her attorney doesn't deny that she shot these guys. Attorney said she shot them and there's no denying that. But she said, now we can make no mistake about it. She shot both these individuals, that's a fact.

But the shooting in themselves is not a murder. It's only murder if she caused their death and did it intentionally. Well then why shoot them? Not in self-defense, they're not, yeah. There is no law in the books, by the way, for putting someone out of their misery, quote unquote. There is none of that. Is there not a euthanasia law? I think it's illegal. There is no law in the books by the way for putting someone out of their misery quote unquote. There is none of that.

Is there not a euthanasia law? I think there is no law that says if someone's dying, you can just put them out of their misery like they're a fucking like they're a deer that got hit by a car. Yeah, that's there's no law that says that. So that is the came up lame. No, that is not an adequate defense for murder is I was helping. It doesn't work They also stated that the majority

The first the first victim self-defense second victim is a mercy-killing He also said the majority of this case is on her own statements They said there's nobody else to say she told them otherwise or sought her statements have many contradict Contradictions and some admitted lies even on her behalf, she'll admit those. So they're like, you know, you can't, are my clients completely undependable? How could you take her confession seriously? She can't bathe herself, so you can't listen to the words.

Now, one of the prosecution witnesses is an inmate that was with her in jail named Jordan Farris. And this Jordan Farris lady testifies that Susan admitted to shooting Delacino during an argument, then leaving his body in the pig pen. Yeah, and also Monica signed her birthday card, Jordan Farris' birthday card, quote, the sweetest murderer in Jackson County.

Oh boy. That's, good God. The inmate, who's a 23 year old woman, said, quote, I got chills from that birthday card. Yeah. Yeah, she admitted during the direct examination, this inmate, that she was in custody for a while on a probation violation, and that she had

other felony convictions, and that her most recent methamphetamine delivery conviction was 2015. Susan's trial counsel indicated he didn't have any questions for the, didn't cross examine this witness. Really? Yeah, which is interesting because the jury does not learn that Faris also had convictions for burglary, theft, and delivery of possession of methamphetamine.

They don't find that out. Yeah, they don't find out that she's just like a bad person. All over bad, at 23. So I mean a meth habit will lead to theft and burglary and metal. It all goes hand in hand. It's part of the addiction, yeah. Part of the game.

So then they play videos here. They play multiple recordings of the interviews for the jury. During these interviews, Monica's version of the events vary greatly because we talked about from complete denials to admitting to killing the men to then having a justification about it and all that. Throughout the interview, she called herself a liar

and stated that she didn't believe her own stories. While this is happening, she says herself a liar and stated that she didn't believe her own stories. No. While this is happening, she says, they're showing the videos. She says, I can't bear to watch, she says in the courtroom. So yeah, she's just making a scene. Um, in the video, they show her saying he was laying there and I was standing here and I went like that and pulled the trigger and that's when she couldn't take it anymore They bring in old Michael Bales. Mr. Heegee beegee over here Michael heegee beegee dickhead Bales as he likes to call himself

He said she's Susan had always been nice and I noticed a change in her He said that she started acting differently when she disappeared, real irritable and all that kind of shit. And then they talked to the other guy who said that she would yell at Robert, not really a yell, more of a scold. Another neighbor said that about the holler, hearing, yelling and screaming in the middle of the night and shit like that coming from there.

One of the detectives that interviewed her testified regarding her changing stories. He testified that he was mad at certain points with Susan because he kept hearing the same story over and over again. And using Susan's own words, the stories weren't very probable. Like he would repeat it back what you just said and go, how can I believe that? And then she changed it a little bit to make it more acceptable. How about this? Yeah.

What about that? Anything How about this? Yeah. What about that? Anything there? No? Okay. Dry hole. All right. Moving on.

So the detective also said that he did not believe Susan because she had lied to him repeatedly. That testimony was elicited during redirect examination there. This was after Susan's trial counsel asked him if he believed Susan when she said she when she was being interviewed because he did not investigate any of the other potential suspects or leads that she provided in her interviews. The sheriff said that Susan pawned two shotguns immediately after after he came to her property. No word on whether the same guns that killed these two guys. So another detective said that Susan told him she wanted to feed him to her pigs as

well. Okay. The detective. Yeah. I want to feed you to the pigs too. He said, they said, well, how'd you feel about that? And he said, it freaked me out. And I'm an armed policeman.

Imagine if I lived on her property and depended on her for food. So here's the fun part. This is something that most judges will not allow. Okay, like if Lori Vallow testifies, her counsel has to ask her questions. That she can't go up and give a narrative or she can't like say,

so Lori, what'd you think about this? Then run up on the stand and go, well, I'll tell you, I thought this and that. Not allowed to do that. Okay, this judge allows Susan to cross examine a detective herself, even though she has not been doing this by the way, so she's gonna get up and cross examine. She said it was her Sixth Amendment right

to be an active participant in the trial and the judge hadn't specifically You know banned that or excluded that so they kind of have to she grills Jackson County Sheriff's detective Eric Henderson This is the guy by the way who she threatened to kill and feed to her pigs She said she said during cross-examination. What did you do with my pigs? and She said during cross-examination, what did you do with my pigs? Uh-huh. And the judge repeatedly stopped her saying she wasn't asking appropriate questions or following the rules of court. He even reprimanded her for disparaging Detective Henderson's character, but it wasn't just the questions that everyone was into.

They said that at one point they said, I want Robert Haney's family to step out of the court for a few minutes. I guess one day after this all happened here, she asked the judge to have Haney's family removed from the courtroom. And she said, I do not want them to hear what he just said, what he's going to say about the judge and the detective about that.

It's gonna get gross. So another detective here, I'm sorry, the deputy medical examiner, he said, I found his remains in a storage area, talking about Haney, went over the horrific details of finding bones near one of the pig pens, and this is when she got all emotional when they started talking about her pigs.

Like lost her shit in court. Not about any, not about a people. No, no, no, no. They said there seemed to be a lack of her taking responsibility, is what the one detective said. I guess they, Delacino, they had to match his bones with his brother's bones.

Oh boy. DNA or whatever. So another detective testified to his experience interviewing many people over a period of time and his belief that Susan was never telling him the truth. So they tried to strike his testimony and they did. They actually struck his testimony. Now in closings here, the jury was presented

with a lot of evidence that the remains of two bodies were found on her property. She admitted to killing them with various justifications and that she had either allowed the men to be eaten by her pigs or purposely put the men's bodies in the pig pen for the purpose of allowing the pigs to eat them. One of the two.

The jury heard from witnesses about how the explanation was not possible, let alone probable. Yeah, first of all, shooting in the head five times while they're still alive, and then he's still alive while his guts are out, none of this makes any sense. You shot people and fed them to pigs, that's what they're saying. The defense closing is this, This is a defense lawyer quote,

just because Susan Monica is different and strange and weird doesn't make her a murderer. We can't, yeah, we can't deny that she's an oddball. Obviously. Yeah. Look at her, the pictures of her property. She's fucking weird, but that's not, come on. That's not what we're accusing her of. We're not accusing her of her property. She's fucking weird. Yeah, but that's not what we're accusing her of. We're not accusing her of being weird. Exactly. We are accusing her of murder. She is weird. She can be weird and a murderer.

Yeah. She doesn't have to be a murderer because she's weird. Right. Yeah. So the verdict here, the judge addresses the jury before deliberations and the newspaper reported that Monica stood up, raised her hand, and began asking for the chance to give jurors one more demonstration on how she claims she shot DeLacino.

Absolutely not okay. That's an, remember when they let O.J. make a statement? Remember when they made O.J. let O.J. make a statement before the jury went to? They let him make a statement? Remember when they made OJ, let OJ make a statement before the jury went to? They let him make a statement. Really? Yeah, which the prosecution was like, he can testify if he wants to make a statement.

He can make all statements he wants. You shouldn't be able to do that. They let him make a short statement, and this is kind of what's going on here. She's asking for that. She said, I'd like to demonstrate how I shot him for 10 seconds. The judge ignored her.

Then she put her hands in the air and said, I held the gun like this and just started doing it. Oh boy. So the judge ordered her out of the courtroom and the sheriff's deputies took her away. She just started doing it. I said this with the gun and then I had him like this. Okay, that's enough of you, Susan. So one hour of deliberation

and guilty of fucking everything, obviously. I mean, this is two murders, they're on her property. She asked for sentencing as soon as the jury was dismissed, saying, quote, it doesn't seem to matter. So get it over with The judge said quote you shot two people and fed them to your pigs I don't know how else I can put it you valued your pigs more than you valued people Yeah, it may sound harsh, but you're a cold-blooded killer. Well

It's not really harsh when a jury just convicted you of two murders. It's pretty That's how nice that judge is. Listen. I don't want to be judgmental here I don't want to be too judgy as I as i'm a judge. Yeah, i don't want to be too judgy here, but You're cold-blooded killer you ma'am may fuck off two sentences with parole Yeah, but they're consecutive with parole, but they're consecutive. So that's two life sentences, two minimum of 25 years

before parole sentences. So minimum of 50 years before parole. She's already in her 60s, so do the math. That's not good. So yeah, that's interesting. Now the defense attorney said that he knew representing Susan would be complex, especially since the judge allowed her to cross-examine a detective Yeah, this was I was never gonna win this I don't know what I was thinking This is like, you know defending Sarah Boone basically like I'm gonna look bad no matter what happens

But the judge the lawyer said in her eyes, I think she learned she was not going to be as effective as her attorneys would be. Much like Ted Bundy learned and everybody else learned. So Lori Vallow's going to learn pretty soon. He's going to get us in. So they said that they were not surprised, the lawyer said, when the jurors took merely an hour to find her guilty, said she made

multiple inconsistent statements before we were involved in the case and so she had told three or four or five different stories and it's difficult to convince a jury when your stories change that okay now I'm telling the truth. Now this time yeah. This said she definitely deserved a fair trial and you know there and thought that he tried to represent her with the most vigor possible. He said in the end it was about representing a murder suspect.

The lawyer says I knew what I was getting myself into. I wanted to try a murder trial. I never have before. That's who does this. This seems like a good one to try because I know I'm going to lose so it doesn't matter. And the rest of it is not any different than any other case. This is what happens. If basically if you get a lawyer who's volunteering to do this, even though you're absolutely

going to lose, they're just doing that to try to get some notoriety out of the fucking thing. You don't want that lawyer at all. You don't want that lawyer. Yeah. First thing, stage time. Yeah. Yeah, first thing stage time Yeah, your first thing is so how many murder trials have you? Have you tried none? Okay, you're not my lawyer

and a lot of judges won't even let you have that lawyer because then you can go back and say Ineffective assistance of counsel you had some guy that never tried a murder trial before so I mean Yeah, so most of the time they're like a, you know, co counsel on them for a while before they get their own and you have to work your way into murder trials. This guy was like, I've been doing jaywalking, but I thought murdered be fun. I watched law and order a lot and I thought, Jesus Christ, if that goddamn Sam water, whatever the fuck his name is can do it, then why can't I do it? I think I can pull it off.

So yeah, they said that now the farm here has been, was frozen in time until, because they went over this with a fine tooth comb here looking for more bodies and parts and pieces. They said the piles of garbage exposed animal bones and squalid living areas that contain no running water or workable sewage facilities, Jesus Christ, became an afterthought when the murder trial was going on.

So they said now after the conviction and the sentences here, they said now they have a potentially very expensive cleanup of the property here. Or you just dig trenches and light it on fire and what? Yeah, well, they have the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality and Jackson County are the ones who filed a complaint Basically, they said that depending on who instigates it and what they find They can there it's gonna be a pain in the ass either way, but they said it could be different They said we're in the early stages of this. We have a whole stockpile of chickens and eggs here, not knowing what's going to go first. Right now we're at ground zero,

possibly trying to do this, possibly trying to do something about this place. So, oh, by the way, she will be held liable for the cleanup of the property financially. By the county, even from prison. Just donate the fucking property, right? Yeah, gonna have to. So she could, they said she could instigate cleanup procedures on her own, deed the property

to someone else who would take on the liability or watch government hired crews handle the cleanup and wait for whatever the fuck they charge. You. But the guy says that she whatever the fuck they charge. You. But the guy says that she's going to have to fund it, it's her property. Sure is, yeah. So yeah, the cleanup there, it's gonna be, they said no matter what, the sheriff's department

has to be involved basically, so you'll have environmental people going through with sheriffs looking over their shoulder, making sure they don't find any pieces of people anywhere. Holy shit. So, for 20 acres? Holy shit. I have 12 and I wouldn't wanna go over it

with a fine tooth comb, it'd be fucking horrifying. So, 20's a lot more. They said at some point, someone would have to make a call, go in and do something and worry about the potential funding impacts at a later time. They said she could sell the property as is, call go in and do something and worry about the potential funding impacts at a later time. They said she could sell the property as is but Oregon law requires full disclosure of environmental problems associated with the site including the nature of the crimes that

happened on the premises. So she did have to say there's disgusting shit everywhere. We found a guy's body over there. This is where the pigs ate people and the bodies are here because somebody murdered them Heart the person in the house. So the record shows she bought the property for $35,000 in 1991 great deal and the market value in 2014 was 272,240 dollars not bad great, but but Yeah, it's like an eight times her investment she made. 800% profit, it's pretty fucking good on a property.

It's still worth shit in comparison. No, no. They said there's two outstanding liens totaling about $2,100 from a road construction company, but that's it. Otherwise it's her fucking house. They said that her, it's very interesting, her attorney said her plans to hold onto the property

at least until her appeal is over. She wants to, she still thinks if I get, go to appeal and get off, I need some place to go. I gotta go somewhere. Yeah, the lawyer said she doesn't wanna let it go. She is held at the Coffee Creek Correctional Facility near Wilsonville, that is where she lives currently here. Here is from an interview that we were talking about earlier.

Remember I was saying, and she did that interview from prison here. This is about Robert. She said, one of the guys that did a little bit of work for me, but I think he's staying on my property, was Robert Haney. He was a nice enough guy. He drank too, but he was a binge drinker. I think he mostly staying on my property was Robert Haney. He was a nice enough guy. He drank too, but he was a binge drinker

I think he mostly was a binge drinker because his daughter got raped and he was really upset about that Stuck on that a couple times a month he'd get fall down drunk one day He gave me $20 and said that he was going to work. I was thinking that he was going to work in Ashland I don't know exactly where he went. I was thinking that he was going to work in Ashland. I don't know exactly where he went. I was thinking it was where he was working in Ashland. He had asked me one time to look at the job he was working on because he wanted my engineering skills to design something to hold up a floor in this house. And then he was not that he was it wasn't a house but a business. Whatever he said I know she said I never did that.

But anyway, that's where I thought he might have been working. So I took care of his dog for a couple of weeks and then all of a sudden it turned into a couple of months and I didn't know what the heck was going on. And then his son called me and said he thought his father was dead and he was immediately missing. So well, you know, it's missing. He's missing as far as I'm concerned, I guess, but you know that that should be your responsibility to do that.

About a week and a half later, I went down to take care of my pigs in the morning and because pigs are a lot smarter than dogs. If you go outside, you have a dog and they saw they see it comes up right to you to you to get its food. My pigs they know in the back of the barn where they get fed, so when they see me coming down to the barn, they'd immediately go around to the back of the barn, and they'd sit there and wait for me to get to them.

They don't go to you, they go to the food. They go to the food, which, that's what my dog does too. Comes to me and then runs and sits by the bowl. Yeah. Hey, dude, how's it going? Hey, look, I need this. That's what they do. Hey, hey, over here.

Good to see you. The bowl's over there. Hey, look, come here, come here, follow me, I got something, here, how's it going? Hey, look, I need this. That's what they do. Hey, hey, over here. The ball's over there. Hey, look, come here, come here. Follow me. I got something here. Come here. So let's go this way. So in the morning they were all standing around and in the middle of the pig pen and I didn't understand what they were doing and didn't understand why they didn't go back to where I was going to feed them. So I walked into the pig pen and there I saw Robert laying on his back. His guts were out and his intestines were out on the ground. I heard this little moan and so she basically says the same thing.

She said then his son called me and said his father was dead. So I'm goodness another stupid thing for myself. I went ahead and said I didn't know anything because I didn't want his family to know he died. Whoa. Then she said a coyote had dragged off one of his legs. She said, I honestly don't know what I was going to do with his body. Steve was a good friend and everything for years when she talks about Steve here. And I wanted him very, uh, I wanted him to be buried on my property where he spent a lot of time helping me,

you know, cause it was nice. Robert, he was a pretty good worker. He didn't like to work, but when he did work, he was a good worker. He was, yeah, she said, I don't want to, he was very honest. He wasn't untruthful. I was charging him some rent and he came up and he'd have the rent money and I tried to get him to do some work for his rent and he'd say he was kind of lazy and something in that respect. So when he went ahead and gave me some stuff in exchange for rent, which I really didn't want But I could use later, you know He was he would find some money and then get his stuff back. So you like pawn shit to her basically Steve and Robert were two different people Steve

I couldn't give him anything to do unless it was very menial because you know, he was a moron She said that's what her claim was give him anything to do unless it was very menial. Because, you know, he was a moron, she said. That's what her claim was. So one day he was looking for work up the street and a friend of mine was chopping wood to sell for firewood. He nearly cut his hand off a week later, so he got fired from that job. And when he was working for me, I gave him a little saw to cut things with. I had him go out on my property and lower the limbs off of trees. So now PETA, the people for the ethical treatment of animals there, they said in a press release

that they're negotiating with the Medford area outdoor advertisers to put up a billboard geared to quote, remind people that the meat on their plate was once a living feeling animal and encourage everyone to extend compassion to all living beings. They're going to show they're using this case to show like, look, you keep pigs and look what happens to them. And if you eat a pig, it might've eaten a person, you never know. There's also a pig lady movie.

Oh really? Pig lady it's called. This year, Tennessee director and writer and actor Adam Ray Fair transformed Monica's story into his feature filmmaking debut, the indie horror movie Pig Lady. Okay. Which is currently available, by the way, I think, on shit. Really?

I think it's on Prime. They said a friend from Tennis, this is, I guess, what it is, a friend from Tennessee who shares story credit, moved to Oregon, and every time I go up there, he'd tell me the story. It's a small town, you start talking to people, saying you're making a movie about the pig lady, and everybody gets enthused. Everyone knew her, everyone had a story about her,

and someone introduced me to her neighbor. We had support from all the locals, all the stars aligned. I'm shocked that these people would be like, yeah, come in and make us look like some sort of fucking, like, you know, deliverance part two up here. Go ahead. Wow. We feed folks to pigs.

Fuck, most of Pig Lady is set and filmed in Jackson County in Weimer and Rogue River. The known facts of the case serve as the foundation for a slasher story in which the fictionalized Monica, Sandra D. Trion, a monstrous figure on whom the camera never keeps focus, prowls the woods, waiting to strike her victims, usually with a machete, and leaves them for the pigs to eat.

So this isn't based on anything except pigs eating people. In the movie. It's as much based on this as Snatches. Yeah, no shit. In the movie, they play as much based on this as snatches. Yeah, no shit. In the movie, they play two brothers, Hunter and Caleb, whose unseen father's a fictional equivalent to the neighbor mentioned by McPeak. Caleb only appears in the newscast prologue,

after which time the timeline shifts back to three months to show how Hunter, his girlfriend Brittany, and their friends, fatefully came to stay at a cabin in Oregon for Christmas. So it turns into that story of the typical young people his girlfriend Brittany and their friends fatefully came to stay at a cabin in Oregon for Christmas. So it turns into that story of the typical young people going out to a weekend here. So yeah, they said the production of Pig Lady

was significantly delayed as they were planning on shooting in March of 2020. Oh, whoops. And that didn't work out. So there you go, everybody. That is Weimer, Oregon. What a place. The crazy fucking pig lady. That's what this is. It's a crazy fucking story. Wild, weird, kind of a dirty little strange tale of this farm. And we've had a lot of like weird body farms lately. Next week, no one will be buried anywhere on a property. We promise. There you go. So

what a good they've been fun. They've been good episodes. We're talking about good I know you're trying to be supportive, but it sounded like we were stuck of it to hire this shit Oh good, you find something different then knock yourself out Bring it here, and we'll talk about it now So anyway there you go if you like this show tell everyone about it tell the. So anyway, there you go. If you like this show, tell everyone about it. Tell the world, get on Apple Podcasts or any other damn place that you listen to podcasts, Spotify, anything, give us five stars.

It helps so much. It really does help drive you up the charts and do all of that. Head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Get all of your tickets, especially tickets to live shows. We got the virtual live show April 19th What if you're listening to this after after April 19th? Well, is it two weeks after April 19th? Because if it's in within that window, god damn it you can still buy this. That's right

It's any time you can watch it a hundred times just like a regular live show, but in your goddamn living room It's gonna be so much fun We can't wait all the bongs and weird stuff and stories and pictures. And we're gonna be wearing costumes. You bet. It's really too much to turn down. Also, get your tickets for Chicago May the 17th at the Riviera. Oh yeah.

Or where is it? The Riviera, right? It's the Riviera, yeah. Riviera in Chicago. Malice at the Riviera. Malice at the Riviera. We were on an 80s movie kick and that's one of them. Yeah.

Vice versa with Fred Savage. It's Fred Savage shooting that out. It's the Riviera. So anyway, get in there at the Riviera. The rest of the year, a lot of these tickets are selling fast, like Grand Rapids, Portland, all these places are sold out. San Diego's got like five tickets left.

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because there was some crazy stories and we barely scratched the surface so we'll just do a part two and then maybe another one a year from now or something then for small-town murder it's Lori Vallow trial time. Lori Vallow, daybell, whatever. She's defending herself. I'm watching it every day and it is crazier one day than the next. I can't wait to talk about this murder trial and just all the ridiculous shit that went on around it. So we'll get into all of that and more. Patreon.com slash crime in sports and you get a shout out for sure,

which happens right goddamn now Jimmy Hit me with the names of the people who would never ever ever feed us to their pigs and leave us in garbage bags in their Barns hit me with them right fucking now this week's producers are Desra and Dahlia Gary Howard's kid and wife Happy birthday Happy birthday, Janelle Potts. Wait, no, it's Ryan's birthday. Janelle Potts is his biggest fan. Oh, well happy birthday, Ryan, and thank you, Janelle. And Andy Wallace, his wife Stephanie Wallace,

it's her birthday. Well, thank you very much, Stephanie, and happy birthday to you. A lot of people banging nine months ago. Rebecca Bbald's husband, husband Trevor happy birthday god happy birthday Carol Braun is a wonderful woman yet again. She she she's been with us since the start by the way Wow She's thank you from time to time say hello. We appreciate the shit out of you. Thank you show you're the best Carol Charlie and Queen Creek and her mama Jen Pat

It's their birthdays. Happy birthday out in Queen Creek. It's everybody's birthdays. Charlie, you're the best too. Arizona. Amber, with no last name. William Thompson. Happy birthday, Amber.

Happy birthday, William. Happy birthday to you guys, I guess. Everybody's got a goddamn birthday. Happy birthday, everyone. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Happy Hour checking in to Amarillo, Texas. Liz Rockefeller, she came back through. The producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Happy Hour checking in to Amarillo, Texas, Liz Rockefeller, she came back through, Jessica Schaener, Sam Hibbard,

Hibbard maybe, it's probably Hibbard, Sam Pennard, Rachel Dean, Jody Dean, Den, Denay, Denon, Denay. How do you say the pasta? It's like that, with a D. The, like Denay? Pennay, Pennay, Pennay, Pennay. Penny, it's Penny. How do like, denne? Penne. Penne, penne, penne, penne. Penny, it's penny.

How do you say penny? Penny. You say penny? It's penny, but I mean it's penny. Yeah, all right. Maybe it's Jody Denny, we don't know. Rachel, or Rochelle, or Rochelle Buchanan. Katie Evan, Daddy Dingus, that's not a name.

Andrea Raffole, Tommy Hartman, Hartman. Hartman. Jacqueline Hazelton, Victoria Hernandez, John Hyatt, Mike Dyson, Dyson maybe, Bo Kitsis, Steven Mueller, Alicia Colley, Garbage Farts, that's disgusting, Jenny Cross, Andrew Schalek, Ben Allenson, Nicky Zummo, Aubrey McIntyre, Sarah Prill, Dale Fry, Garrett with no last name, Samantha Pierce, David Brown, Michelle Neese, Mike Van Doorn, Elizabeth Rutherford, Devon Tyre, John Young, Monique Reynolds, James Allen, did I say that already? Maybe there's two Allens, I don't know.

Moving on, Brianna Jorgensen, Leslie Kampah, Kampah, Kampah, not gonna work here, what is this? Kampah, Kampah. What, Kampah, yoni, yonin, Kampangnon, Kampangnon. All right. You broke, it must be Italian, because Jimmy can't pronounce Italian names. That's a lot of letters.

Sarah Samara, Samara Harris, Bologna with no last name, Ronald Ross, Sarah Jane Gwydre, Angie with no last name, Christine Gilbert Kim Bjorki, Marnie with no last name, Val's best mate, Valerie with no last name, James Prince, Jackie Conklin, Stacey Gladden perhaps what else is this Jelena Jeremick Jacob Jacob would know last name what is the rest of this god damn it sorry I missed what happened Jacob no last a thai glow Foglia Gallo Rojo Abby Blair close one, Chris and Alison, Kubiak. Coach Kubiak's kids possibly. What is it, Foglia?

I said good save on Foglia. You were going the wrong way there for a minute. Sure was. Straighten right up. Got to right this ship. Sarah Eaves, Connor Miller, Nips with no last name. But you know, Nips are always good. Alaska, Jordan, Kevin Sutherland,

Deandra Crosby, N and R, the letters N and R. This show brought to you by Letters N and R. Ah, Antoine with no last name. I hope it's that Antoine from the very first Your Stupid Opinions, that would be amazing. Oh, that'd be great. You can only hope. We got him into it. Angela Robinson, Sarah Alves, Amanda Beckett, Laura Matlock, Kristi Kuvert, Mary Kolkowski, Jay Sol, Robin Largo, Pam McCoy, Katrina would

know last name, Donna Hagler, Zach would know last name. Andrew Meng, Perry Morgan, Kaitlin Skagg, Skagnelly. Holy. Yeah. Super K 1320. Ethan Proctor, Donna Dunnigan, my name is Renee, James, nope, that's Jesse, patched. Vibolette, Vibolette, what? Vibolette? What is that? Starlof Rolfe. Al God, or AI God, I can't tell what that is. Mary Acute. Okay, Linda MacMahon. What is it? I said okay, Linda MacMahon.

Hohkutt, Mary Hohkutt, Alisa, Alyssa, Alisa, Taylor, Johnny Clamps, Chris Ott, Darrell Buckley. These are the hardest fucking names on the planet this week. Vicki White, well she's dead. Emma Toulac, wasn't that her name? That prison guard that took off with the inmate? Yeah.

Emma Toulac, welcome to Toulac. Mike Wilbur, Savannah Mumower Patrick Moore Christine Stevens younger Jason Ross Emily. Oh rock a more rock a more rock them all they can take Kim Dever Samantha rock like a hurricane Monica Roth. There it is slip slider CC Harned Harned Harned Heather Bodette for fabulous sake or maybe it's just fabulous sake. He needs all of our help. Hey, you know what? Let's all pray for fabulous.

Daniella Lensley, Kaitlyn Ola-Savsky, and a Viper, Morgan John, a Viper has no last name. I don't know what a Vi it could be could be not Patrick Hanrahan Ryan Kosser David Dave Holmes Maureen Street Crystal Lee Olsen Elise lethal leet ham maybe a serial killer probably not Joe with no last name Patrick Smith Rutherford B hammock Destiny Scott Rachel with no last name, and obviously every other patron. You guys are the best.

Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. Fantastic, wonderful people. We just cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us on a daily basis. If you'd like to follow either of us on social media, both of us would be preferable. Follow, go to shutupandgimmiemurder.com. That's where it is. Drop down menu, have some fun.

Keep banging out with us, and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. I've just been to Specsavers and upgraded my lenses to extra thin and light with 50% off. Now, what else can I upgrade? My cat? Wow! My scooter?

Oh yeah! Get 50% off lens upgrades in the Specksavers Spring Sale! Hey, I could upgrade my kids! You chill, Mom. I'll load the dishwasher. Awesome! Exclusions apply. See Specksavers.ca for details. Offer ends soon. Are you captivated by the dark and mysterious world of true crime? Wondry Plus offers you the ultimate true crime experience with early access to new episodes, exclusive content, and a seamless ad-free listening journey. With Wondery Plus, you'll get access to hundreds of podcasts, including more than 50 true crime series like Dr. Death,

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