Small Town Murder - #61 - The Mannequin Murders in Elkridge, Maryland

Episode Date: March 15, 2018

This week, we look at the suburban town of Elkridge, Maryland, where a brutal attack opens up investigations into years of unsolved murders, that reveal a common link, and DNA evidence that couldn't even be used yet. As time went on, so did science, and a history of truly awful acts came into focus. It's a wild case, with a big ending!! Along the way, we find out about the politics of a small town flea market, how simply leaving your DNA on a murder victim can somehow make you a suspect, and that there be nothing creepier than a mannequin!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Tickets will go on sale February the 16th for all these shows. Also, don't forget March 25th in Phoenix at Stand Up Live. Yes. All the links are in the show description. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week, we look at the suburban town of Elk Ridge, Maryland, where the residents were terrorized for over a decade by a mysterious killer.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westman.

You guys are the best, and we are happy to bring you another action-packed edition of Small Town Murder. Start off real quick here. Just want to remind you, live show's coming up. You've heard at the top of the show. Phoenix coming up on the 25th. Get to that. Stand up live. Week and a half to go here, so get those tickets right now at Stand Up Live. You better hurry. Get to that. All the tour, all the sites, get to that. Stand up live. Week and a half to go here. So get those tickets right now at Stand Up Live.

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It really is. Thank you, guys. That's actually a great way to put it. It's embarrassingly great. We're embarrassingly grateful. That's exactly the only way I can really think to put it. And also, by the way, if you're not listening to our other podcast, Crime and Sports, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Honestly, it's hilarious. I'm going to tell you right now. For a party, good time? Yeah. That's the one right there. This show's great, and we love this show, and it's great. But Crime and Sports is all party time all the time. It's making fun of insane criminal athletes.

And you don't have to like sports. It's a good time. So make sure to do that. Also, while you're at it, listen to PS I Hate This Movie. Me as well. Me and my wife, Sarah Hunt. There you go. Making fun of bad romantic comedies it's wow

I get really angry and I rant a lot all James all the time get in there every one of those shows are all James oh god really never mind

don't listen to any of that stuff you're going to have to listen to way too much of my bullshit you don't want to hear that stuff I love it never mind all that but never mind all that is the perfect thing to say

because it's time for the disclaimer unfortunately we have to do that guys and it's funny that is the perfect thing to say. Yeah. Because it's time for a disclaimer, unfortunately. We have to do that, guys. And it's funny that we have to do the disclaimer, but we have to. Because I'll tell you what we're doing. We're not warning you about graphic content or horrible things. It's called small town murder.

I expect that you expect some murder to happen. What we're warning you about is that there's jokes. That's why this is silly. We're literally warning you that you might laugh and then don't be offended by that, because some people think that true crime and comedy never go together. And that's what it is. And for those people, we say, have a good one. You're not going to like this. See you later. Take a hike. If you want to stick around and hear a great story, then you should do that, because we'll tell you what we don't do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. We're not jerks like that. We're not. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's the way it works. And that's honestly and truthfully what it is.

So if you like that and that sounds good and you want to have a couple laughs and you want to talk about some murder, you're on board. Let's do this. And you know what he should be saying right now? Shut up and give you murder. That's right. He should be saying, shut up and give me murder. And that's what we're going to do right now.

We are going to do that. We're going to head on a trip, Jimmy. Okay. We're going on a trip. We're coming from Phillips, Oklahoma. Wipe the cold debris off of yourself. Clean out the shit bucket off the porch as you leave Phillips, Oklahoma. Because if you didn't hear last week.

Holy shit. Stop right now. Go back. Because it's insanity. It reverts. Insanity. And we have an insane one this week, too. But that one was just a crazy, crazy mess.

But we're going on a trip. Let's go. We're heading to the East Coast. We're going to Maryland. Oh. Maryland. See, you snuck it in there last time we did it late. This time we're a little early.

Revisit. Yeah, that's what we're going to do. We're going to keep them on their toes here. We're going to Elk Ridge, Maryland. Oh. So I hope you're packed up on the trip. There's a lot of elk there, huh? A lot of elk in Elk Ridge.

Just a whole ridge of elk, as a matter of fact. Well, they've got a town called Elk Tin, also. Yeah, I don't know what the elk thing is there. What the fuck is your elk there, huh? A lot of elk in Elk Ridge. Just a whole ridge of elk, as a matter of fact. Well, they've got a town called Elk Tin also. Yeah, I don't know what the elk thing is there. What the fuck is your elk thing about Maryland? I don't know. I don't know how much elk there are in Maryland. Embrace the crab instead. That's true.

They should be, yeah. Crab Ridge, Maryland. That'd be better. Much better. Of course, it's not on the water, so never mind. It's in the dead center of the state. Gotcha. But because the way Maryland is set up, it's somehow still in a panhandle.

Okay. Even if it's in the middle of the state. Maryland is just three panhandles. That's all it is. It's somehow still in a panhandle. Even if it's in the middle of the state. Maryland is just three panhandles. That's all it is. It's three panhandles of disaster. This is the middle panhandle. So this is the middle pan. I guess that's worse because you're getting all the reverberations from the other two pans, too.

The other two panhandles. It's a disaster. It's 20 minutes outside of Baltimore. So you would think that's very dangerous. But if you go outside, it'd be fine. But this is excessively dangerous. Well, not for most people, but for the people in our story. Very, very dangerous.

And for a bunch of people, honestly, we'll talk about it here. Like we said, 20 minutes outside of Baltimore. It's in Howard County. Zip code 21075. Area code 410. Decent size town. It's 8.5 square miles. So it's not a little tiny, one of these one-street, half-mile square.

We've covered before. Like Phillips. Like Phillips, where we're like, is that a town even? Who lives there? No, it's 8.4 square miles. It's got some distance. The motto, town motto, is, yeah, quote, well outside of Baltimore's straight bullet range. That's a good motto, I think.

That'll get people to go there. All right. Yeah, come. It's fine. It's not their motto. They don't have a motto. Bullets go, what, five miles? Is that about right?

About a five-mile radius? Yeah, you're about 20 minutes out. You're well outside of stray bullet range. It's fine. Omar will not rob you in here. That's what they're saying here. You're going to be good. It's fine.

History of this area. Obviously, pre, you know, populated by Native Americans, obviously, before anybody else got there. It's funny, too, because they have, they did this, they do this all the time. It's when we talk about any of the Native American things here. In 1652, the Susquehannock tribes signed a peace treaty with the people of Maryland, giving them basically, Native Americans basically gave them Howard County, gave them that area. And did they think they were, they were like, they'll just take Howard County and be fine. They won't want any more. No, we're good out there.

They're good over there. It's a peace offering. No, no, no, no. Yes. Ever hear the phrase, give an inch, you take 8.5 square miles? That's a good one. I think that came from here. That would be the best town motto.

That's it. That's their town motto, as a matter of fact. We were given an inch, we took 8.5 square miles. 8.5 square miles. And guess what? No more Indians around here. So that's what happens here. Elkridge actually is the oldest settlement in Howard County.

Really? It's when Howard County was part of Anne Arundel County, which they named a county not just Arundel after, but they gave the first and last name of this. That's a person. Anne Arundel. Oh, Anne Arundel. Anne Arundel, one word, like I always thought it was. It's two words. It's Anne Arundel.

Hi, this is Anne, and this is her county. Right. That's very strange. So, yeah, it was part of then at that point. It's located on the Patapsco River, which is why people started to come there, because any time there's water or oil or gold or something, there's got to be somewhere for them to get their goods off to, basically. That's why Phillips, Oklahoma has 120 people.

The Maryland General Assembly elected to basically make 30 acre, make a 30 acre town. It's a 40 lot town, which is where Elk Ridge Landing was. But they were going to call it Jansen Town in the 1700s. And then that failed. And they didn't. One of the commissioners died and then it just fell apart. Like, well, Bob's dead. Fuck it.

He was the only one. He was really pushing it. He's dead. I don't know. He was the deciding vote that made it an even commission. And now we can't ever get along. Shit. Never mind.

That deciding vote. Yeah, that's what happened there. The settlement here was found at a place where there was a lot of planters. The way they would do it to each of the each of these plantations would have like a wharf on the river where they could load their tobacco products right on the ships and go right off to England right from there. Oh, beautiful. I mean, that's why this place got – people started coming there.

Very convenient. Yeah, Elk Ridge Landing was basically the seaport for the whole place, for the whole inland area right there. 1755, the Elk Ridge Furnace was founded at the Elk Ridge Furnace Complex. It's a big ironworks plant. It's 16 acres of ironworks. Oh, I got it. Okay.

I see. I thought you were just saying like a furnace, like come burn your shit. Yeah, come burn your shit, everybody. Everybody. That ought to keep the town together. Bring your leaves. Bring them here. It's fine.

Old furniture, tires, we don't care. So it's a smelting plant? This is different. Yeah, they made, there was an iron furnace that operated all the way into the 1860s. It operated until the end of the Civil War or into the middle of the Civil War because this area was involved in the Civil War here. In 1825, the Janssen town, the town they wanted to have first until the guy died, that, it burned to the ground.

Really? So, yeah, they were taking, it took all of the oldest buildings and also nine out of the 10 houses that were there. Holy shit. So, just destroyed it. And also, so what they ended up doing is, coincidentally enough, they were like, well, that town's fucked. So then Elk Ridge started taking over.

They started feeling muscular and big about the whole thing and tough, and they put a post stop. No investigation of how that fire started? Nope, not at all. I feel like somebody in Elk Ridge has a notion. Later on that year, Elk Ridge landing had a postal stop all of a sudden that they didn't have before. So there you go.

Who benefits from this? Follow the money. That's how you know where the problem went wrong. Elk Ridge people who want to mail things. That's where the money goes, damn it. Elk Ridge had a history of pig iron forging there. Do you know what pig iron is? I don't.

I didn't know either. It's an intermediate product of the iron industry. Cr crude iron is first obtained from a smelting furnace in the form of oblong blocks pig iron has a very high carbon content that's the difference there well that's not very nice made by smelting iron ore into a transportable ingot of impure high carbon content iron in a blast furnace furnace as an ingredient for further processing steps how the fuck did you not know that? So it's just like sloppy iron is what it is? Pretty shit iron, basically. That's not very nice to call it pig iron.

It's just shit scrap iron. Also, basket weaving was big. They had cotton, paper, grist milling, as we found out what that was earlier, as well as a lot of people worked for the railroad through there. Civil War. This place was hot during the Civil War. Union troops were there guarding a lot of this, because

this was a good thoroughfare to Baltimore, and so they wanted to guard all of that, because they were trying to guard Baltimore. Yeah, keep the entrance free. Exactly, here. In 1918, a horrible flu pandemic swept across the whole county, starting with an early outbreak in

Camp Meade in Anne Arundel County, and it took a shitload of people out. I mean, 1918, there was a huge flu epidemic everywhere. Isn't that weird? It was crazy. If you see, like, when we won World War I and people are, like, in parades, half the people have masks on. Really? Yeah.

They all have masks on because it was a huge flu epidemic then, killing tons of people. If you think about it, like, our country, we haven't had a good batch of dead yet in a while. And I know that sounds horrible. But we had – think about it. Civil War wiped out a shitload of people and it took everything down. World War I, shitload of people. And then we get back, flu outbreak. Wiped out a shitload.

I didn't even know that. It was a ton. I mean a lot of people died in that flu epidemic. The flu killed a shitload of people. Now it's like a punchline. And then we that. I mean, a lot of people died in that flu pandemic. The flu killed a shitload of people. Now it's like a punchline. World War II, a bunch of people dead, and then we've just swelled since then. I'm not saying we need a

horrible event to happen. You've been in traffic lately? Well, we might need a horrible event to happen, is all I'm saying. Try to get tickets to a new movie or something. You can't do it. That's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. We need a flu pandemic. The flu is killing a lot of people, though. That's one thing. Is it't do it. That's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. We need a flu pandemic. Yeah, we need a flu. The flu is killing a lot of people, though. Wow.

That's one thing. It's killing a lot of people. Is it doing it today? Now, yeah. Really? Recently, the last year, the flu is- Really? Yeah, the flu's got muscles now.

It's like iTunes' funky algorithm. It's working out. I stopped watching any news because it's just fucking a horrible story after horrible- I'm done reading the fucking news, so I'm just going to ask you from now on- All right. I'll let you know what's going on. What pandemic should I be worried about? I'll let you know what's happening. I'm just going to ask you from now on. All right. I'll let you know what's going on. What pandemic should I be worried about? I'll let you know what's happening.

When do I need to wear a mask? Just bring me a mask the time I need to wear one. When a mask is necessary, don't worry. I'll throw you one here. In 1939, the Andrews brothers opened the first mobile home park in Eldridge. Oh, Christ. That's where it started, baby. I'm going to tell you something right now.

Ground zero. Andrews is my stepfather's side of the family. And you saying that they opened the first mobile... I almost guarantee that they are his family. It's a pretty common name. It's a pretty common name for white people, I would imagine. But him being so white trash, I assume that I'm just going to go with yes, it's his family.

They opened the mobile park. They didn't live in the mobile park. You know they lived there. No, they opened it. You think they actually lived there? Or do you think they just used it like a tenement? If it was my family, my stepfather's family, they lived there. That's why I'm saying it's not your stepfather's show.

These are business people. All right. Not fucking white trash mobile home. They didn't say they erected the first trailer and lived in it. Maybe they just parked two together. They built it as a business. Yeah, that's a park now. They built this as a business. Yeah, that's a park now. They built this as a business.

People in this town, population 16,750. It's up 30% since 1990. That is people fleeing Baltimore mostly and D.C. and other urban areas around there for somewhere what they think is safer. We'll find out how safe it is. Let's do that. Median age in this town is a little lower than normal. We've been dealing with a lot of old towns lately, a lot of old people. 32.7 here. It's about five years younger than the average. So it's a younger crowd, not a ton of old people.

Male and female populations are pretty much on point of normal. It's about 51% female. More married people than not, which is odd. Usually when a town skews young, you get less married people. And here we get 8% more married people than not which is odd usually when a town skews young you get less married people and here we get eight percent more married people and five years younger in the age which is a really odd thing that usually doesn't happen is it young people fleeing big cities and trying i guess fucking hipsters i mean i would assume probably i assume a lot maybe

it's that you're you're a couple and you're married and you have a kid and you live in the city and you work in the city and then you go hey we had this kid let's get a yard now and you move out to elk ridge yeah i would assume maybe that's a part of it probably as as the elderly people die off or are murdered yeah you never know what's the population of curly q mustaches that is that is 1.1 percent it's very low so it's fine no uh it's not hipsters is what you're saying not hipsters no no uh so more married people like I said, that sort of thing. Single with children is also a little lower than normal. It's a very weird thing. Divorce rate's normal, though.

Less widows than normal because it's a younger crowd. So it feels like a young family town at this moment in time. And this is just this moment in time. Now, race of this town, this is our lowest percentage of white people ever. Really? Your lowest, 54.56% white. Fascinating. That is lower than the average.

Average is 62%. Highest population of black people I think we've ever had, 23.65%. How about that? Look at that, right? Asians, 9.67% Asian. Holy dog shit. Holy shit. This town is crazy.

That's impressive. What's going on? I know. They have other people besides white people. This is awesome. It's wild. They I know. They have other people besides white people. This is awesome. It's wild. They don't know what to do with themselves. It's mostly all white people scattered with a few Spanish people.

Hispanic? 9% there. Wow. So this is like a community of different people that live there. This is a little New York. Hey, look at that. Nice. It's a melting pot.

It's a little melting pot. Religion in this town, less religious people than normal. It's normally about 50-50. Here we got about 45% religious, which is less, 5%. 20% Catholic. You're going to get that on the East Coast, obviously. The Catholics are the Baptists of the North and East Coast, unless you get down south by the water. And then anywhere south of here.

Florida fucks it all. Well, Florida, there's plenty. South Carolina fucks it all. South Carolina, yeah there's plenty. South Carolina fucks it all. Yeah, Georgia, you don't want to do that either. No, no. About 1% Mormon here, so they're trying. They're like, well, there's a few Mexicans we can try to recruit. That's what they're trying to do here.

1.28% Jewish. Holy shit, look at you guys. This place is for serious booming. You progressive son of a bitches over there. Good job. 0.11% Muslim. Now, voting in this town, it's about 60% Democrat, about 38% Republican. That's Maryland pretty much.

Maryland's one of those. There's just not a lot of Republicans in Maryland. Especially, this is close to the city, so you're going to get less Republicans. Farther away from the city you get, the more Republicans you're going to get there, voting-wise anyway. Unemployment rate, super low here. It's about 3.5%, which is pretty much, if you have arms, you're working. If you don't have arms, they'll still use you probably.

That's very low. Decent job growth recently. Median household income here, way higher than normal. Normal is about $54,000. $96,427 for median household income. So it's like a nice, it's turned into like kind of

an affluent suburb. See what happens, little America? All these little towns. Well, this is just an affluent place. I mean, yeah, there's reasons. But still, you bring in some brothers, you bring in some brothers. You bring in some Spanish fellas. Yeah, all the rich people are white, though.

You mix it all together, and everybody all of a sudden can thrive together. But unfortunately, those people just work on the rich white people's lawns. And I'm not being a dick. That's probably true. No, it is true. I know this for a fact. Just because of the story. These are all like five-acre estates and a lot of woods and big places and 80-year-old white people living on five acres of land.

They're not cutting that shit themselves. So no offense if that's what Mexicans – it's all they're doing. But I feel like they're like – that's where work is. You know what I mean? And that's what happens here. The jobs here, construction is about normal. Manufacturing is half the normal there. Even like retail is less than normal here, which is

strange. But there are more professional, scientific, and technical services. So there's more white-collar jobs, which means higher incomes. That's more of those, more educational services, that sort of thing. Less blue-collar jobs here, which is tough if you're trying to just make a living and you don't have a college degree or anything. That's a little hard, but people might do here. Squeezes me out of it. Yes, we'd be fucked. We'd be completely fucked. We'd be completely screwed here.

I found some air quality and water quality testing here in this area, too. Air quality here, 58.5 is average. 100 is best for air quality. 100 is like, this is pure oxygen. It would kill you, but this is pure air. It's beautiful. This is Missoula, Montana. No shit in it at all.

Nothing. Here it's 34.3. Oh my God. So it's well below the average of air quality and well below perfect. It's shit. Does the air from like Pittsburgh? You can see it. You can see it.

The air waves at you as it goes by. Remember like in a cartoon, they'd have like a swarm of bees that would like wave at. That's just dirt and dust and shit. It's chewy to breathe here. Yeah. The air is crunchy today. It's crunchier than normal. Water quality here too.

100 is best. 55 is average. And 50 is the water quality here. So it's a little dirty. Yeah. But I mean, you're going to get that kind of on the waterways of the highly used East Coast. It's kind of like that

there. It just is. I expect the East Coast, anywhere that you're over there, to have dirty water. It's good. If it's see-through, it's still fine. If it's clear, you know what I mean? I imagine that's how they judge it. Sure, it's got a little yellow hue to it. Just drink it.

You'll be fine. Yeah, be all right. Don't be a pussy. So overall, Elk Ridge, Maryland, don't be a pussy. That's their slogan. We found it, guys. I love it. Cost of living here, overall, we say 100 is par, average.

Overall, it's 126 here. Jesus. So it's a little more expensive. Everything else is kind of on the money, healthcare, transportation. Everything's around $100, except for housing, which is $176. Yeah, I figured. That is very expensive for housing. The average median home cost in America is $185,800.

In Elk Ridge, it is $327,300. Jesus. So you're getting a big difference in housing costs. And there are a lot of newer homes here, too. Okay. Like the average home age here is only 20 years old. Really? So they really kind of flipped this town over in the 90s and kind of tried to make it more of an upscale.

Because it was like an upscale kind of a place where, you know, people that had money and didn't want to live in Baltimore were. But over time, those houses get run down. And they build new ones. Plus they built, they expanded and built new big houses. As Baltimore got more shitty, they built more suburbs. And I understand Baltimore. They made the riverfront, and they did all that, and whatever that is down there.

They tried. I get it. But it's still a dump. Sorry, guys. It's still Baltimore. We've all seen the wire. It's funny, because I'm going to try to make less wire references, in a case 20 minutes from Baltimore than normal.

Just because it would be too easy to just talk about The Wire for the fucking hour and a half, two hours. So the house is here. Most of the houses, about 65% of the houses are between $200,000 and $400,000. Really? So, yeah, not a lot under that at all. 7% between $150,000 and $200,000. And those are shitholes. Yeah, and under that, there's just nothing, pretty much.

And then they go up. There's some very, very expensive houses here. And if we've convinced you that the only place for you to be is in the dirty water town of Elk Ridge, Maryland, we have for you the Elk Ridge, Maryland Real Estate Report. All right. First of all here, we have average two-bedroom apartments, a little pricier than normal. It's about $1,040 on the normal here. It is $1,590 for a two-bedroom apartment.

Wow. Which makes sense when you see the home prices. I did find a little starter home. It's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,000 square foot. Needs some care. Let's just put it that way. You're going to put some elbow grease on that interior. $120,000.

Yeah, but that mortgage is still cheaper than a $1,500. That's crazy. That's what I mean. You get that. You can whatever. Maybe you can sell it for more later. I'm not sure. You can flip it. Four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,200 square foot house is $3 can, whatever. Maybe you can sell it for more later. I'm not sure. You can flip it. Four bedroom, three bath, 2,200

square foot house is $399,000. That's kind of your average home here. And that if you've done well for yourself, you want to leave the city, you got a big business booming in Baltimore that's doing well. I found a five bedroom, four bath, 3,300 square foot house for $659,900.

Enjoy. Still 20 minutes from Baltimore. That's so much money. Now, things to do here. Not a lot of things to do here. Jesus Christ. I looked like all the different things to do. I'm looking for anything. And there's not a lot of like, doesn't seem like a lot of culture on this here as far

as like not a lot of like festivals and parades and that sort of thing. I did find the... They don't do anything on and that sort of thing. I did find the- They don't do anything on Chinese New Year? No. I did find the US-1, which is a highway, US-1. I found the US-1 flea market, which is a very highly rated things to do in this town. I found some reviews of it here. I found a three-star review that's titled-

Out of how many? There's like 10 of them. No, no. Out of how many reviews? Five. Five stars. The title of the review is lots of cheap stuff. Well, it's a fucking flea market.

Yeah. Prices are pretty good. However, a lot of the merchandise is new dime store type of stuff. Not a lot of used vintage or antique items. So it's basically just a- It's called a flea market, not an antique market. It's a parking lot dollar store at that point is what it is. That's where most flea markets are.

Well, back east they're not though. Back east flea markets are a lot of antiques and shit. It better say antique in the title for me to pop into. You expect that back there. Here, a swap meet is a parking lot full of shit. Then that's a dollar store and a parking lot. There, at a flea market, you expect some shit and then a lot of antiques. So they're like, this isn't what you want if you're going antiquing.

You know? Hey, not here. When I hear the phrase flea market, though, I just expect cheap shit. Yeah, definitely. That pops into your head. I don't expect to stumble across some fucking woodworked Monet, you know what I mean? You grew up in Arizona, too. That's why.

There's nothing here to find and stumble across. It's not here. I don't expect a flea market find where I paid five bucks and it's worth ten grand. I just don't expect that. That happens back east, though. You never know. Here's another one. Quote, management does not care about new vendors.

God damn it. This is amazing. There's somebody that participated. He's bitching about this. He says, quote, been there several times, left business cards for them to call me when they have a booth or table opened up inside. It's been two years now and they have not bothered to call me while other new businesses have opened up inside. Otherwise, most of years now and they have not bothered to call me while other new businesses have opened up inside.

Otherwise, most of the vendors sell new merchandise. This is a general management complaint here that has nothing to do with anything. That sounds to me like he was a bit forceful with his business card. They were like, fuck that guy. Nobody call that guy. This guy is annoying as shit. No one call him. He's a total dick. Let him come in and spend his

money, but nobody call that guy. Jesus, what a jerk. You want to give him a table? What's he going to sell? He's bitching that we won't involve him. What if we do involve him? He's going to bitch about everything. And plus, he's selling wind chimes. We already have 14 boots full of wind chimes.

Have you seen all the fucking wind chimes? Maybe if you had a birdhouse booth or something like that, we could throw that. But I mean, wind chimes, we're stocked. Sorry, buddy. You know, we only sell new shit. You have all old shit. We don't want your old shit in here. We don't want your old shit here. We sell throw that. But I mean, wind chimes, we're stocked. Sorry, buddy. You know, we only sell new shit. You have all old shit. We don't want your old shit in here. We sell dollar store crap here.

Maybe you have the Monet. That's what happened here. Crime rate in this town. Property crime is right about at the average normal. Violent crime was about 20% higher than average. Yeah, it still is to this day. And it was even worse.

Well, it was actually not worse, but for some people it was worse back when we're going to talk about here. We're going to go back to 1979 and start our story in Elk Ridge. We're going to start our story. We're going to talk about Sarah Faulkner and her husband Carvel Faulkner. When I hear that, I just think he has delicious ice cream with those crunchies in the layers. Some cookie toast. Yeah, you lucky pricks just got – finally got carvel out here yeah after years but that's like i this was up the street from my house i went to carvel all the time it's great and i love you been in a carvel

here fucking empty nobody even shows up they don't know it's they don't know what it is dairy queen has got a line out the goddamn door so much it's like mcdonald's like how do you how do you not why does that place in fucking business because Why is Dairy Queen in business? Because we eat there. McDonald's, right. I get it. We love Dairy Queen. That's why.

Their food is fucking awesome. Their food is great. Their ice cream sucks. McDonald's is in business because it's cheap and quick. That's why. But here's the thing. McDonald's cheap and quick. So is fucking Big... So is Five Guys.

No, it's not. Five Guys is twice as much money and takes twice as long. No, no. Five Guys is the same price. It's 10 bucks. Five Guys is twice as much money and takes twice as long. No, no. Five Guys is the same price. It's $10. Five Guys is $7.59 for a hamburger. So is McDonald's. No, it's not.

You've seen they're charging the Big Mac $8 now. I'm telling you they are. For the meal. And it's not $8. Where have you been shopping? $7.99. It is not $7.99. That's what they're showing it.

I'm showing you right now. God damn it. Outside of Manhattan and Hawaii, it is not $7.99. I'll tell you that right fucking now. It's not $8. I'm telling you, God damn it. It's not $8. Carvel Faulkner.

Let's talk about him and his ice cream empire. He does not have an ice cream empire. He does love McDonald's, though, because he's a fat bastard, this guy. We'll say that much here. He runs a garbage business out of his house. Right away, that's a legit guy right there. Yeah. Anybody who runs a garbage business back home, I lived back home. I know people who had

garbage businesses. None of them were fucking legitimate at all. Garbage businesses? You cannot be a legitimate garbage business. It doesn't exist back east. Oh, back east. You're a private guy who sends out garbage trucks? That is the most corrupt fucking business there is because there's unions and there's contracts and there's all of this shit and mob things that have to do with that, with dumping, with trucks.

They run the union of the drivers. You have to be a corrupt guy. Someone's going to be like, I run a – well, you're corrupt then. I'm sorry. You made a deal somewhere with somebody so they wouldn't do something. We'll put it that way. You didn't just apply for a license and do everything and never encounter a guy with no neck. That never fucking happened to you.

So this guy has no neck. Faulkner. I'm picturing Charlie Sheen and Emilio Estevez in Men at Work. Was that a private company? I don't know. I'm not sure if that was a private company or not. Because that shit was corrupt too. It seems like it would be.

Yeah. They had to send Pete David around with him to make sure everything was on the up and up. That was great. I love that movie. So anyway, Faulkner here. They live in a beautiful, sprawling five-acre estate. It's a beautiful house. They've done very, very well for themselves here.

And so they run this business out of their house, and they have their office is like attached to their house. It's a big home. They had their foreman come in about 2.30 in the afternoon. The foreman came into the firm to do some work in the office. He was looking for Carvel, Mr. Faulkner, to try to figure out what the hell was going on. So he enters the office and he's not in there. So he goes back into the house. He's looking for Carvel.

He's calling him. He's calling him. He's calling him. Now, by the way, Carvel Faulkner is a 58-year-old guy. He weighs about 330 pounds. He's about 6'2". Holy shit. He's a big – he's a guy that you'd go, that guy's in the garbage business. You know what I mean?

Like he's a big Tony Soprano-looking son of a bitch. Got it. It's exactly the best way to describe him. His wife, though, is – and he's considered a real hard-ass too, Carvel. Yeah. Like he's considered a ruthless businessman. Yeah. And he's also a licensed gun ass too carvel yeah like he's considered a ruthless businessman and he's also a licensed gun dealer shit like that so he's a trash guy who's also a licensed gun dealer there's some shady shit he's dealing with guns and trash right and back east

and especially in 1979 yeah there is no way you are not shady as shit if that's what you're doing it just there's no legitimate people in those businesses. He sells things that kill people and has a business that gets rid of people. Exactly. This is crazy. That's what the mob does. That's exactly what they do. So he ends up, the foreman of the construction or the garbage people here,

they go into the house and he's looking for Carvel. And looking for Carvel or his wife here. His wife is 56 years old. Her name's Sarah. She's considered a sweet person that everybody likes around town. She's nothing like her husband. It's not like they're both hard-edged business people. She's the nice one.

He'll rip your fucking throat out. You know what I mean? That's the way they are here. So the foreman goes in and he can't find them. So he eventually comes to their bedroom where he peeks in and he finds Carvel in a pool of blood next to his bed he's been shot once in the head pool of blood on the bed

so he goes in to look at that a little further and then he finds Sarah the wife who has been bound at the hands and feet she is handcuffed up or tied up and her throat has been slashed and she has several stab wounds in her back. Jesus.

They're both dead, obviously. This is 2.30 in the afternoon. In the afternoon, there are no signs of disturbance at all. Carvel. Apart from two dead bodies. No, I mean, there's not even a lamp knocked over. Like, there wasn't a struggle. There wasn't anything missing.

There is no sign of struggle, which for anybody, for Carvel Faulkner to just not have any struggle, it's a very strange thing is what they're looking at here. At this point, it looks like murder-suicide. This is a huge guy who looks like a fucking gangster and shit. There's no way they're just letting anybody come in and rough him up, basically, here. So, yeah, they're baffled. The cops have no idea what they'll happen. There's no signs of disturbance. There's $1,000 in cash

in plain sight, just out on the dresser. And nobody touched it. Not untouched. I mean, whoever did this. So, robbery is not the motive, clearly. Nothing's stolen. Nothing's broken. Everything's untouched here. Their house is huge, too. Nothing's stolen. Nothing's broken. Everything's untouched here. Their house is huge, too. It's this crazy luxury mansion

on a five-acre lot here. People liked them. They liked Sarah Faulkner especially, and they said that they were just good business people, and they assumed they weren't mafia-connected. They always called him an iron-fisted businessman, though. That's how everybody used.

Iron-fisted, he was really hard to deal with. By the book. He's tough to deal with. He's such a big guy. He's got a 21-inch neck, by the way. It's a big neck. It's like a big boxer Mike Tyson neck. I've got a 16 and a half. That's what I mean. He's a fat bastard

and he's a big, thick guy. Also, they had a big walnut headboard and it was split – it got hit by the bullet that went through his head. So there was a through and through and they only found the – that was the only other bullet hole they found anywhere was in the headboard here. Now, Sarah, she was very religious. Now, Sarah, she was very religious. She was like one of those ladies back kind of back in the day who would just if she went to the grocery store, she looked like she was going out for the night. Her makeup had to be done. Yeah.

You know, perfect clothing and well coiffed with her hair and all that sort of thing here. She looked like she was like in her early 40s, too, even at 56. I don't know if plastic surgery was involved or whatever. They're a wealthy couple. She looked great. She looked great for her age. Everybody liked her. She was a good person, a nice person.

But, yeah, by the way, she was stabbed and had her throat cut with a kitchen knife, which is – I don't know why that always sounds worse to me. I don't know why. Like a tactical – a knife designed for her. Or even a box cutter or a razor blade or something like that. Yeah, that's at least dirty. That's some dirty street shit right there. If you're going to cut my throat, fucking, you know what I mean? What are you going to do with my own knife? What did you do?

Take it out and then take the sharpener out and make sure it was good still too? What the fuck? Yeah, that's a good point. You don't know what I opened with that. I could have been cutting tomatoes all day yesterday. I could have been opening my goddamn Campbell's cans. The commercials said it's great for them. I was going to say, I could have been cutting a shoe in half. And what have been opening my goddamn Campbell's cans. The commercial said it's great for them. I could have been cutting a shoe in half.

And what are you going to do about it? You don't know. Then you're going to go to cut my throat and it doesn't work? Bring your own razor blade, please. Anyone who's coming to cut my throat, please bring your own blade. That's what I beg of you. Because my knives aren't sharp enough. My knives aren't sharp enough.

I'm going to tell you right now. You're not going to get the job done. Let me know ahead of time. I'll sharpen them up. I don't know. But Christ almighty here. So now there's no forced entry. There's no broken locks. There's no broken windows. There's nothing. No signs of a struggle. Like we said, this is just like, where do you start? Poof. And they were dead in the room like nobody. And who would leave? Who would kill these

people and not take a thousand dollars in cash sitting there. It was also, too, there was another about $600, $700 worth of mayonnaise jars that had quarters in them. What the fuck? So, I mean, he had like, I mean, you could have got out of there with two grand if you were like a crackhead that was robbing the place or something like that. This looks like not interested, only interested in death type of thing here. type of thing here. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about HelloFresh. All right.

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enter small30 at checkout and you get $30 free. $30. Fantastic. $30 off your first order. That's fantastic. Enjoy it. And now back to the show. Also, the house has like, it's, everything in there is expensive.

Yeah. Everything they have is expensive. Their vases are ridiculous, bought at auction type of things. Not that goddamn flea market. No, not that shit flea market down there. They're not going to that piece of crap down on US 1 here. He tried to be a vendor and they wouldn't let him. And then he wrote, oh, that's what happened.

The flea market took revenge on him. Damn it. Damn these flea markets. So, yeah, so nothing is gone. All of this expensive shit in the house, all of this money, nothing's gone, nothing's forced. What the hell happened? Police think the murderer must have known them, obviously, to be able to get into the room and not have Carvel struggle with them and beat the shit out of them probably more than likely. So they thought maybe it was an employee. The first thought was possibly an employee who came early to work to talk with him and maybe got into an argument and said he came back into the room.

Oh, yeah, one more thing. And he was like, what? And he shoots him in the head. That's why that would explain no struggle, that sort of thing. But they don't know. I mean, the foreman says he arrived there. He was out doing jobs. He came in.

He arrived. He found them in the living room. He says he found the back kitchen door like kind of ajar, but that was normal. It was to the backyard. It wasn't a big deal for that to be ajar, for them to go in and out or that sort of thing. So that wasn't a big deal. Inside also, that was all of that stuff with them. Inside, he also finds Pierre, who was – they had two French poodles.

Oh, no. They're not dead. The poodles are fine. Don't worry. Poodles are fine. I love how people are dead two French poodles. Oh, no. They're not dead. The poodles are fine. Don't worry. Poodles are fine. I love how people are dead. And you go, oh, no. Sorry, everyone out there that goes, oh, the dog?

Hey, guess what? I have two dogs. I love dogs. I don't want anybody to hurt dogs. I would kill every dog on earth for nobody to be murdered anymore. I would fucking completely wipe dogs off the face of the earth for no more murder. And this is not against anything against dog lovers. Like I said, our dogs are like they run our house.

We love our dogs. But if someone said, if you could possibly have it so no one in your family has ever murdered again, and from a person who's had a murder in my family, or we kill your dogs, I'd say kill us fucking dogs right now. I'll put a bullet in their heads for you. Don't care. Sorry. Call me a dick. Don't give a shit. Guess what I'll tell you on Twitter. Go fuck yourself. Don't care. Sorry. Call me a dick. Don't give a shit.

Guess what I'll tell you on Twitter. Go fuck yourself. I kind of like my Vaughn. If it meant that your kids were safe forever. I mean, my kids. If I get to choose the murder, I just love my own talk. I do, too. And I would kill them tomorrow if it meant my kids were safe forever.

Sorry. Don't care. Just because there's a few people that probably deserve it. Maybe. There's a lot of people probably deserve it maybe there's a lot of people who deserve it jesus christ we all die we all die we're not all murdered that's a difference so uh he finds the french poodle uh there's they have two french poodles like we said first one is pierre the french they name their french poodle french names which i think is hilarious that dog is like keeping guard of the bedroom door.

He's keeping people out of the bedroom, this little French poodle. Not successfully, he's a French poodle, but he's trying to be. He's trying, which you got to give him credit for the effort, man. He's giving it a shot. Nobody answers when this guy shouts. So then after he found the bodies here, they find Tina, who's the second poodle, who's a little tiny white dog here snuggled up against Sarah. So that's sad and very sweet here. So they were obviously the dogs were very disturbed.

They were whining and moaning because their people were not to be, you know, found again here. So anyway, the two they get their two married daughters. They come over to take possession of the dogs. Anyway, they get their two married daughters. They come over to take possession of the dogs. Weird thing is here, their daughters, Mary Louise Tablada and Carolyn Martinez, are both married to Nicaraguan guys. What are the odds of that? That's weird.

What are the fucking odds of two rich chicks from the Baltimore suburbs both marrying different—they're not brothers, the guys they married. Different Nicaraguans? I haven't met one in my life. How many Nicaraguans do you know out there? These people found out. You found out? Me too. Oh, my God. Wow.

You know they had to get married to have a theme wedding. Oh, fuck. Jesus. The worst. There's only one band that knows any Nicaraguan music, so we're going to get them in one time. They're very expensive. Jesus Christ, man. They've got to finance half their life with one wedding and then half the rest of their life with the other wedding.

That's great. Mary Louise is 21. She and her husband are college students in Raleigh, North Carolina. They drove in when they heard about this. Carolyn's 31 years old. She lives in Nicaragua. She has four kids down there. She flew in for this also.

The younger sister is hardcore. She is fucking rugged, this chick. This is like when you think of rich, emotionless, people whose kids die and they're like, they make a grunt and then they go on. You never know anything happened. They're just too, yeah, you know what I mean? That no feeling, like people say about the royal family, they have no feeling You never know anything happened. They're just too. Yeah. You know what I mean? That that no feeling like people say about like the royal family, like they have no feeling that sort of thing. This is a quote from her quote is being hysterical, going to bring my mother and father back.

I don't care for crying. I never have. I've learned to set a limit on things like this and say, OK, no more. No. What? Wow. Quote, people criticize me for the way I am, but that doesn't mean I don't feel it. I'll probably carry this thing a lot longer than my sister.

My sister balls about anything. She's like my mother. I'm more like my father. I won't cry, but I will carry it forever. Sure, it was a little spooky at first coming back and staying in the house, but we're going to continue living right here. We're not going to let them ruin our lives. If they're going to get us too, they'll get us wherever we are. I could build a steel room with only one key, but if God wants me to die, I'll die.

Nothing I'm going to do is going to stop it. Why did God let them be killed? Think where they are now, okay? They're a lot happier than when they were here. It would be very selfish to want them back. I don't know. That is a cold fucking statement. Wow.

And everybody has different reactions. That's the other thing, too. Everybody has different. It has different ways they process grief. But that's one I haven't seen. That's a new one. I'm gonna carry it everywhere. But you'll never see.

You'll never see about it. You'll never know. That's one that if if she was like in town, the police would be like, let's talk to her again. You know what I mean? I don't like her reaction to how she – that was really weird. Somebody dust her hand again. Yeah.

What am I supposed to cry for my fucking parents being murdered in their rooms? Please. So this is a couple that had children together and they've been married for a long time. Yeah, yeah. A couple of years. They've been married for 30 years. This is bananas. 35 years.

Okay, go on. Nice couple. Yeah, it's crazy. It would be selfish to want them back. Would it? It wouldn't even be selfish. It would be selfish to want them back. Here's the thing, though.

They didn't have like- I think they were happy. They were rich here. They were good. They didn't have terminal diseases. No. They were doing great. They were living a great life.

They're in a better place. No. What the fuck are you talking about? They lived in a fucking mansion. I mean, they were doing great. He had a grand sitting on the table. Just sitting there. In plain sight plain sight no i didn't even care about it he's not happy or somewhere else i promise tip money yeah jesus christ he'd love to come back shit yeah that's what i mean it wouldn't be selfish for you plus it's not selfish to want your parents to be alive i don't think

that's selfish you selfish asshole you want your mom to be alive? Why are the dogs handling this better than her? That's the problem. That's crazy. More normally. So you know what? The dog's snuggling in. Maybe dogs are better than people. Fuck it.

Never mind. I give up. I fucking give up. The dog's snuggling in. The daughter's like, ah, they're happier wherever they are. That's crazy. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God.

So the family members offered a $10,000 reward for any information on the case. Right. Both the family and the police think the killer was someone that knew the couple. There was also fresh coffee and lit cigarettes were found in the couple's living room after the killing, which, I mean, it must have been real recent if there's still cigarettes lit. Still cigarette burning, right? Yeah. So they were saying that the killer may have been sitting there with them prior to the crime, hanging out with them in the living room. Initially, the police had over 100 people who had some kind of connection with them as either employees, friends, businesses, acquaintances, whatever.

They had 100 people to talk to about this to see what the hell their deal was. I thought you were saying like in that morning they had had contact. I was like, Jesus Christ, they are busy as fuck. Line them up. Everybody sit down. They got an auditorium at the local elementary school. Everybody sit down. Everybody sit down.

We got some talking to do. We got some shit to talk about. So that case, they're looking for the killer at that moment. That was 1979. Now, February 15th, 1980, there's a woman named Rebecca H. Davis, better known as Dolly Davis. Don't get too hard, Jimmy. Dolly Davis, not Dolly Barton.

Go on. I'm talking. This woman here, she, everyone loves her. This is the nicest person in the world, basically, from every account. She's born pretty rich. She's a former debutante. She's, you know, went to all the boarding schools and all that sort of thing. You already said debutante. No more words.

No more. You know it right there. We know what she is. She is, but she didn't take that and be like just a rich fuckwit out of it. She took it and was just all about charity and all about, she did missionary work in Haiti. She did volunteer work at St. Anne's Episcopal Church in

Annapolis. I heard she took some time to go show blind people when their ass was clean. She did. That's the other thing she did. She said, hey, guys, not quite. No more wiping. You're good. One more. Oh, one too many.

One too many. There's blood on that one. One too many. Stop. Stop now. Stop now. There you go. She also tutored children in very poor neighborhoods.

She also, Dolly, Dolly also visited the sick and infirmed in the hospitals and was like, would read to them and bring them things. Good lady. This lady is just like, she's just like an angel, this woman. She was an artist and a very, very good one when she was younger, actually, which was, she had like a career. Like she was younger, actually, which was she had like a career, like she was an artist. And then she when she got older, she just focused on charity and goodwill and good deeds and all that sort of thing. Like that was what she was all about. Everybody loved this woman.

She's a 70 year old woman who's just the sweetest woman in the world. One of her friends here, a woman named Phyllis Fidler, which I love her name. She said, quote, a couple times I have known her to pick somebody up on the road. When I would say she shouldn't, Dolly would just smile and say, quote, you can just tell about some people. She's just a sweet lady. She takes in strays.

What you expect somebody to be when they get rich and don't need to be... What you would hope they would be. This is what you would hope people would want. Right, exactly. They would see the world as far as, like, I'm doing well in the world and this is good and I should pass this along. And most people don't do that, unfortunately. Unfortunately, human nature is selfishness and greed.

Exactly. That's all it is. She's never married at 70 years old. Wow. Never married, no kids, lived alone in a giant house that her grandfather built in 1914. Wow. So this is wealthy. This is a wealthy affluent heir.

Old money. Old money, exactly. That's why she could be an artist and then just go and live in a mansion and do charity work. That sounds great. I would love that. Adopt me, Dolly, please. There's somebody that works at Jiffy Lube right now. Their dad was like a truck driver, and they're like, fuck this lady.

Yeah. Or someone, there's me sitting here going, fuck this lady. I don't have health insurance. Right. Exactly. Visit me when I'm sick and infirm. This is 1980. On February 22nd, a housekeeper, one of her housekeepers, she has many, arrived at the residence and thought things were a little bit weird.

She just felt a weird feeling. Nothing was disturbed inside the house, but Dolly's car had been parked half in and half out of the garage, and the housekeeper found one of her shoes in the backyard, just sitting in the grass, which was really an odd thing for her. Why would an old lady leave her shoe in the yard? So this housekeeper contacted one of Dolly's friends, didn't know what to do, and didn't want to call the police to the house of a rich person unless that was the right thing to do. So she called the friends. It's kind of like when a celebrity ODs and they can't tell – their assistants can't tell people like we were talking about.

So they contact – one of Dolly's friends contacts the police. They search her entire house. They can't find her. They look all over. She's got a mansion. They look in every nook, cranny, crevice, basement, crawl space, anywhere, attic, anywhere she could possibly be. So then they extend it to the grounds of the house. Maybe she fell down out there.

She's an old lady. Who knows? She might have broke her hip or something. Not that 70 is that old, but who knows? And back then, 70 was older than it is now than it is old enough to break a hip absolutely now though 70 like there's guys that are like women and guys that i know there are 70 or like way more energetic than me back then 70 was old right period it just was now it's a commercial for a dick pill that's exactly now it's like hey you want to get out there and bang those young broads right well

you use yourself a dick pill it's some guy jogging down the beach because he took a dick pill and he couldn't be happier about life. Back then it was just a guy sitting in a chair trying to digest his dinner. That's it. His soft dinner. Still having problems digesting it. So they do an intensive search of the grounds to find out where the hell she could possibly be. And they end up finding her finally on the far reaches of the property. They find her buried in a shallow grave.

Holy shit. She's dead, obviously. She's still wearing the dress that she had worn out that the people had last seen her in. That was the last time they'd seen her. She hadn't been seen in a week, which was odd. A week? Sometimes she would do stuff in her house and wouldn't come out a lot and wouldn't do things. So that wasn't abnormal for her.

Or she might have gone out of town. People didn't know what she was doing. She hadn't been seen around town in a week. And then this happened here. Oh, that's too big of a window. Well, it gets worse here, this whole thing. It is way too big of a window for a 70-year-old. But she didn't have any family.

That's the scariest part. It wasn't like it was like, oh, I called grandma and she's not answering. Like nobody, she didn't have any family. That's the scariest part. It wasn't like it was like, oh, I called grandma and she's not answering. Like nobody, she didn't have any family. So that's tough. We got a message today from a woman who we said someone had, we were saying it was sad that somebody we covered, it was an old or an elderly person. And they were, they didn't have any, they never got married, never had any kids. And we said it was sad. We didn't say it was sad that they didn't have kids.

We said it was sad that they were lonely. That was the whole point. This person gave me a dissertation on why they chose not to have kids. And I love to, I know some women don't want to have kids, but I feel like that argument that she gave me was basically dictated from her husband of why it's a good idea that they don't have kids. And she was like, yeah, I agree with that. Okay, yeah. And then she's going to fucking stab him when he's 50 because he never let her have any goddamn kids.

Right. So I don't know if that's true. I'm just kidding. That's totally a joke. She's going to get up to her 60s and be like, I wish I had a grandchild here. That's the thing. No, but this woman was like, we're very happy, and you can't say that we're not going to have anybody to take care of us

because the money we save on kids will be able to hire people to take care of us. I was like, dude, it's fine. Jesus. I have two kids. I get the appeal of not having fucking kids. Trust me. Believe me. I get it.

I've only got two now. I wanted eight. Then I had one, and I'm like, fuck this. I'm not having eight. Two was like, I don't know. Maybe I should go to a doctor and get this shit trimmed around. got two now i wanted eight then i had one and i'm like fuck this yeah i'm not having eight two was like um i don't know maybe i should go to a doctor yeah i don't know about this trimmed around that's what i mean so believe us we get it trust me no one's fine don't have kids no one is is begrudging anyone's uh you know choice not to have kids good for you less people in the world thank you you're

doing a service for us all wine on a on a patio when you're 65 and nobody coming over and it's just silence and you're thrilled with it, good for you. Awesome. Yeah. I'd love to hear my kids come over and tell me I was a dick when they were a kid. Yeah, that's better. Yeah, that's better. You'd be miserable.

And yeah. Yeah. It's true, though. But yeah, we don't begrudge anyone for not having kids. Don't have kids if you don't want to have kids. As a matter of fact, if you are not really into having kids, please don't have kids. You're going to be a terrible parent probably. Because we're both terrible parents. We didn't know what we were doing. We're

better now, but at first we were like, I don't fucking know what to do with this kid. I can't believe they kicked me out of a hospital two days after he was born. I was like, are you shitting me? I'm sure I've screwed up a lot. Let's put it that way here. Well, this woman here, let's get all the jokes in now if we can, because we're going to talk about poor Dolly Davis in a second here.

Dolly was stabbed and sexually assaulted. Oh, fuck. Sexually assaulted a poor 70-year-old nice lady. And I don't even know what makes you— How do you choose to do that? And stab her and hides her in the woods behind her home, which is awful here. After this, too, the people in the neighborhood are freaked the fuck out, as you might imagine. Older women are afraid to stay alone in their homes.

Everybody thinks there's a killer walking the streets here. They found her under a pile of wood, too, which is like a shallow grave. That's not a shallow grave. Well, it's a little. They dug a little and just put wood over it instead of dirt, basically. Terrible. But, yeah, there's no. They looked all around. a little and just put wood over it instead of dirt basically but uh yeah there's no they looked

they're all around they found no uh no uh any kind of uh you know uh forced entry nothing like that nothing out of the ordinary in her home she was there for a week they figured out uh she she died the a week before that there so it sucks because i mean people are miss her too she's not just like like literally she has remedial math students that she teaches. They're like, where's Ms. Davis? She was sponsoring a Southeast Asian family who had been decimated by the war. Oh, my God. I mean, I'm over there to come over here, and that was like up in the air now.

Ms. Davis, the check stopped. What happened? It's all of these people that depended on her. All the neighbors said she was ready to help all the time. She'd help anybody in the world. The the police say these two cases have not been connected. The Faulkner's and her. But this case brought new attention to the Faulkner case.

People think that there's they're freaking out. They don't know if this is this a serial killer going around killing elderly people or what's going on here. Howard County Police Sergeant Angus Park put their put their fears to rest here. He said, quote, There's not a phantom killer. We don't see that. There are no maniacs running around the neighborhoods of Elkridge. I mean, you sure there's a minimum. There's two, two dead people in one fucking neighborhood.

At maximum, there's two. And at minimum, there's one. Robbery isn't the motive. So that's that's a phantom killer just coming in and killing people. There's not one phantom killer. There might be two, Angus. Yeah, you never know. You son of a bitch.

Maybe two, at least one. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So the coroner said that she'd been murdered probably a week before that. And she was in the outfit she wore to Woodson Elementary School last time she was seen. She'd been stabbed nine times in the neck. Oh my god. With a short blade, possibly a pocket knife. Okay. And had uncountable small defense wounds

on her arms and hands and everywhere else. She did her best. They said, they called it scores of them. They didn't even, couldn't even, the medical examiner couldn't even put together how many there was. And it's weird, at the time too, law enforcement kept the sexual assault out of it. They didn't tell everybody.

They didn't tell the press because that was one of those details that if someone had information, they always keep a detail or two just in case so they can tell if you're full of shit or not, basically. But that's kind of the one. I mean, granted, maybe keep some of the wounds secret. You know what I mean? Because that's kind of the one that you're like, if somebody's getting raped in their house. In 1980, that's what makes people freak out. Yeah. Old lady got raped in her house.

Oof. That's going to people are going to lose it. But if you start getting raped, you got to assume that this is the guy that just did that other shit. I might be dying. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'm exhausted with that thought. That sounds horrible.

It's crazy, right? It's me. You think about it for two seconds and it spins in your head and it's like you're like a gerbil on a wheel. What do you even say? It just keeps going around and around. They're pretty sure she was sexually assaulted. They can't tell.

They think possibly she was sexually assaulted while she was being murdered, not pre or post. They're like, we're pretty sure in the middle of it to stop her from fighting back, I guess, because you're a piece of shit. And I don't even know. She everyone said she's the nicest woman in Elkridge, basically. And she's dead here. One of the one of her friends from church said, quote, this was the case that this is the case in the county that caused people to put deadbolts on their doors. She was well known in the Elkridge area. Her neighbor, Esther Bennett, who sounds like an old rich woman, said, quote, people are

scared to death. You know, it's an awful way to live. Scared to death. Which sounds like the way an old woman who has money would say it's an awful way to live. Scared to death. Right. You're saying like that. So she said and then she said, but I'm up for the nicest person in town now.

Yeah, I'm up for now. Now I'm going to win the trophy. I'm not a suspect, though. I promise. I did not hire a man to rape and murder. I promise that. I promise. Not at all.

Have you seen my arts, by the way? I'm a very accomplished artist. Way better than Dolly was. What a horrible joke. That was a horrible joke, but that's what we're here for. We're not making fun of her. It's fine. No, that's a dark joke, but that's what we're here for. Jesus. We're not making fun of her. No. It's fine.

That's a dark, dark joke, though. I feel horrible for this fucking poor woman. We just accused another old woman of killing her. That's all. That's fine. That's alive. She's alive. With the motive of being the nicest person in town.

She's alive. She's up. She's fair game. Anyone alive is fair game. I'm sorry. That's fine. They're looking. They're trying to connect these cases if possible.

Sergeant William Huber of the state police said, so far we don't have any new leads, basically. They don't know shit on any of these. It just sits here. The Davis case was one of 11 homicide and manslaughter cases in 1980, one of two unsolved killings. So that's the Faulkner and them before that. More than 30 county detectives looked at the case.

They revisited. They reexamined the evidence. They called in psychics. They interviewed suspected national serial killers. Like anybody who was picked up in another state, they talked to them. They passed through. Yeah, literally. Like, did you go by through on the US 1 or on the 40?

Because, you know, maybe it's that here. They did everything. Hundreds of leads, too. People were calling with tips that didn't lead anywhere., like anytime there's a high-profile case. They accumulated enough paperwork on this case to fill two filing cabinets, which is a lot for one homicide. People just said, all the cops said they were just tormented by this case because they couldn't crack it. They couldn't get anything on it, nothing at all. Howard County Police Detective Richard Witte said, quote,

she was a super nice individual. I haven't talked to one person who ever said anything negative about her. Who would want to kill a nice person like Dolly Davis? That's the question here. Now, March 17th, 1980, it's been a year since the Faulkner killings at this point, and there's articles about how there hasn't been any arrests. They said one officer since then has been investigating the case full time. So they kept a detective on it full time. Just one dude. Usually. And if you

read the David Simon homicide book, the creator of the wire, they talk about when they have in the city, at least in Baltimore, they call it a red ball. That is a case that is highly attentive. People know about it. The fucking it's on the mayor's radar. He's saying, I want that case solved. And that's all hands on deck. And every day the mayor asks. Oh, no, not just ask.

They want every day you have to have reports that then go to your superiors who then write reports on that. It goes on the chain. The chief wants to be kept involved. I mean, this is a that's a completely different thing than just like a drug dealer in an alley. You know what I mean? That's just like, if you find it, you find it. If not, if not. If it's an old lady who everybody loves, we're finding this fucker yesterday.

So that's a big deal. So even a year later, they still have a full-time detective on all this, which is insane because in the homicide book, they talk about an 11-year-old girl who was sexually assaulted and killed and left in an alley. And that was a big red ball. But six months later, three months later, the detective, the lead detective was going back in the rotation on other shit.

That wasn't the priority anymore. The red ball turns yellow. They'd go back to it after a while. But once the public sentiment dies down and nobody remembers it anymore, they're like, all right, go solve everything else and never mind. But in this, when you have wealthy people that's the difference wealthy people keep the pressure on right other people they have to go to work in the morning you know what i mean it's like yeah please find who killed my daughter but if you don't after a year i still have to have a lot my life goes on rich people they will stop they'll put money into it

that's their whole they'll turn their whole lives into finding who this is. So I want to get rich, so if anyone kills me, they'll find the murderer. So they said this guy's been on for a year, but no new arrests, no new evidence. Nothing's turned up. Nothing's anything there. Got it. Weird twist in this whole thing now. This is where shit gets creepy and weird.

This is where shit gets creepy and weird. May 13, 1980, really weird shit starts to come out in the paper about this. And this was stuff that the police hid for a while. A few days after Rebecca Davis, Dolly, was found dead in her yard, a passerby found a mauled torso of a mannequin stabbed and splashed with red paint hanging from a tree right by her house. Right by her house? Right by her house. Right by her house? Right by her house. Since they found her body, several other parts of mannequins have been recovered all over this area. What the fuck?

Two dozen reports of mannequins have been seen on sections of back roads in the area and around this neighborhood. Oh, my Lord. People are freaking the fuck out about this. This is creepy. They're finding stabbed mannequins and shit like that right by murder victims' houses. So this becomes known in the papers as the mannequin murders. Wow. So this becomes like a thing.

People are really freaked out. At minimum, there's like a 17-year-old somewhere being a real dick. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. So that's what they don't know. They don't know if it's a prank. They don't know if this is a calling card of a killer or what. Because I've seen the pictures of these detectives carrying around

this mannequin, and it's fucking freaky. If you found that and knew that a lady was just murdered right there, stabbed in the same way, it's freaky, man. You're thinking, is this like someone's playing games with us here? Lieutenant Frank Woods of the Howard County Police Department said, quote,

it's the mannequins that have gotten the attention and made it unusual, but it's a connection we have not been able to verify. We've discovered nothing that connects them. They said there's a good possibility that the first mannequin may have been connected. But after that, they're not sure because the first mannequin was like right by her house, stabbed. Same way. Whole deal. They think the others possibly copycats, but maybe not.

They don't know. Maybe this is a calling card. Also, it's a town of eight and a half square miles. So everything's kind of close. Everything's kind of close. Yeah. But know. Maybe this is a calling card. Also, it's a town of eight and a half square miles, so everything's kind of close. Everything's kind of close. Yeah, but no, this was like two doors down. It was right there by a tree. They said, quote, each time one of these mannequins pops up, everyone's paranoid fears

comes out. Maybe this is a symbol, is what the cop is saying. That's what everybody thinks, which makes sense here. So, yeah, they found the mannequins showed up then. They found a discovery of one in the middle of the month there at an approximate date that another woman was killed in another area also. So these mannequins become a big deal. One of the police said, quote, to me, that's bizarre.

But even without the mannequins, it would not be the run of run of the mill case. Yeah. Yeah. Sexually assaulting old rich ladies in their houses and killing people and not stealing their money. These are all very odd things here. So March 29th, 1981, Evelyn Dietrich we'll talk about here. She's an elderly woman. She lives in an area home there. A nice, again, a bigger house, an affluent lady.

She's 68 years old. a bigger house, an affluent lady. She's 68 years old. There's a kid cutting through her yard on the way. So, you know, kids take a bicycle or just cut through a yard and go all the way around the neighborhood. We'll cut through her yard. The sidewalk. Exactly.

So we'll cut through her yard in rural areas. That's what kids do. This kid, as he is walking through her yard, he's walking through her yard. He finds Evelyn Dietrich's body. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's brutal. Trying to save 12 steps and he found a body. And he found a body. Can you imagine that when you're a kid? She was beaten to death. Oh, Christ. Terribly, too. She struggled violently with them, too. She fought back, this woman. They think maybe one or more assailants. They're not sure. She was struck on the right side of her head with a blunt instrument, they said, and we'll find out probably what that was.

The phone lines to her house had been cut. That's something. And investigators theorized that the murder occurred on a Friday or Saturday night. They thought maybe someone was trying to break into the house. Lights were on inside her home and the outside floodlights were on showing in the yard, like showing that maybe she turned the lights on to see what was going on outside to investigate a noise. She was in her nightgown. She went outside onto the back porch, and that's where she got accosted here.

One of her slippers was found near the porch, and the ground was all torn up from the struggle. That's how much of a struggle it was. They were tearing up grass and shit like that. Then, if that wasn't bad enough, after she's beaten to death, she was dragged 25 yards and left lying next to a bush. That's a long way. Wearing only a nightgown. It's fucking horrible, man.

And not far from her body, which is a bloody horrible mess, they found a 100-pound rock that had been moved from an original location in the yard. They found where it was and where it had been placed. And they figure that's probably the murder weapon was this giant rock. Somebody knocked her out with fists and then grabbed a 100-pound rock to finish the job. Someone beat this old lady. She was fighting back, fighting back, fighting back. So he, I assume, bashed her head in with a rock. Sleepy.

Unbelievable, man. Fucking. How do you do that? How do you do? And here's the other thing, too. After the killing, police say that the murderer or murderers left without ever entering the home. What the fuck? They didn't go in.

They didn't steal anything. Nothing stolen. Nothing gone. Just a dead elderly nice lady in the backyard. Tell you what, James. Fuck didn't steal anything. Nothing stolen. Nothing gone. Just a dead old, dead elderly nice lady in the backyard. Tell you what, James. Fuck dogs. Thank you. Thank you.

Wait till you hear the next one. This is horrific. It's fucking. This is what I mean. I would kill every dog to get this asshole off the street. Oh, my God. Because my great grandmother was murdered like this. This is terrible.

Exactly the same thing. I told it in episode seven or eight from Otisco, New York. This is horrific. But I might as well tell it of why I get angry at shit like this. This is terrible. Exactly the same thing. I told it in episode seven or eight from Otisco, New York. But I might as well tell it of why I get angry at shit like this. It's true. My great grandmother was 84 years old. This is when I was about 10 years old, 11 years old. She was 84 years old. She lived down in Florida like

older, old, retired ladies do. She was as sweet of a woman just like this. Very sweet, kind woman. Would give anybody the time of day. Wasn't afraid of anybody. Was one of those people who was like, oh, people are good people inside. That type of thing. Even bad people have a good side.

Exactly. She would be the person to find that good side. Well, somebody knocked on her door and asked to use her phone. This was 1990, so they did that. She let this person in and this person who turned out is a, who was a very bad crackhead, ended up tying her up and slitting her throat and robbing her and everything else. Very little.

She didn't have any money. It was very little cash. A couple hundred dollars, I think they found. Scumbags. But they slid an old lady's throat for that and tied her up. And they didn't have to—they could have tied her up. They didn't have to do shit. That's enough. Tie her up. Leave they didn't have to tie her up. That's enough. Didn't have to do shit. That's enough.

Tie her up. Leave her alone. You can take the money. So I remember getting that call and hearing about that at 10 years old. And that shit pisses me off when people fuck with old people and fuck with kids and stuff like that. Because I remember, might as well tell the other part too, why I have a sick sense of humor. Because that was the thing. The funniest goddamn thing I've ever heard.

I try to explain why I have a dark sense of humor, and it's because of shit like that, because this was like the moment this clicked in for me. We were at the funeral of my great-grandmother, and she had her throat cut, like I said, and it was a bad one, but they had an open casket because everybody wanted to see her. So they put pearls on her neck, like five rows of pearls, so you couldn't see the giant wound on her neck. And I was standing at the casket with my cousin, paying our respects. And it was just overwhelming, the whole thing for me. It was overwhelming with emotion.

I didn't know what to do. So I looked at my cousin. I said, she was wearing that in the first place. We wouldn't be here right now. Which is hilarious, objectively. But that was the way I dealt with it, though. And that was my great-grandmother I loved. And that was the way I dealt with it, though. This is how you handle grief.

So when we make jokes, this is – That's your I'm going to carry this with me forever moment. That's how I do it. So when we make jokes, this is – That's your I'm going to carry this with me forever moment. That's how I do it. So, I mean, we have respect for these people. And if we make jokes, it's because I would make it if it was my great-grandmother because I did. I'm much more respectful to these people. I just can't – I can't – This is horrible, man.

I can't grasp a reality where this shit's okay. No. Obviously, that's a very obvious statement. But I can't grasp a reality where I can witness okay i mean no obviously that's a very obvious statement but i can't grasp a reality where i can witness this happening and being like oh that's normal yeah that's good how could i just can't it's legit i just can't picture this happening ever this is nuts what could make somebody physically go i'm gonna kill that old lady and not even rob her like i get i don't get but i see the woman who killed my grandmother was a crackhead. Her motivations were clear. She wanted money, and she wasn't in her

right mind, and she wanted this, and she wanted more crack. So that makes sense to me. This doesn't make sense. This is ridiculous. And this house, too, Ms. Dietrich's house, Mrs. Dietrich, has a huge, tall hedges surround it. It's like those Brentwood neighborhoods that O.J. lived in. You can't see anything inside the property.

Well, I have a fence. They have chain-link fences with hedges on top,. You can't see anything inside the property. Well, I have a fence. Yeah. They have chain link fences. Yeah, with hedges on top so you can't see the chain link fences. It's ridiculous. So no one noticed anything about the house. They didn't notice her lying in the yard. Nothing because it was until this kid cut through.

Police asked her family members, you know, why would she have gone outside alone to like look into this sort of thing. All her family members said she's very independent and she's not afraid of shit. So she would. But her hands and legs are crippled from arthritis and she needs a cane to walk. Oh, sweet Christ. This poor little lady who needs a cane to walk because she's so crippled with arthritis. This is who you're attacking. this is who you're attacking.

And she still in that much pain and everything had the wherewithal to fight back and had heart and had spirit in her to fight back. And her neighbor says she was always, always a cheerful person. She, Mrs. Dietrich's home had been broken into about one or two years ago and she was tied up and left there, which freaked me out again because I thought of that. But they didn't hurt her. They just robbed her. A neighbor was talking about that from a year ago and said that Mrs. Dietrich noticed someone snooping around the neighborhood and called police.

And they said they ended up catching the burglar inside the neighbor's house. Nice. And they said they were very grateful for Mrs. Dietrich for keeping an eye out. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, Leesa Mattresses. Leesa.com. L-E-E-S-A.com. Leesa is a fantastic company that makes a fantastic product.

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L-E-E-S-A dot com slash STM. Promo code STM. $100 off the most comfortable mattress you're ever going to find. Lisa.com. And now back to our show. She said that Mrs. Dietrich was very frightened by the robberies and all that. She said she was very afraid. She didn't want anyone to know that it was her who called the police.

Like, she was freaked out about the whole thing. One of her neighbors said, quote, she had the most beautiful outlook. She was an old, crippled-up lady and a widow, but she loved life in spite of everything. Old, crippled-up lady. I like that person. Yeah, me too. And that's an unnamed neighbor. Yeah, of course.

That's some old, crippled-up lady, but I like her. She's a nice broad. Don't put my name on that shit. Don't put my name on that, please. I said crippled. Let's just not do that.'s cut the cut the name part here we'll go anonymous that sounds good she's an old crippled lady what's your name ah don't worry about that part my god man that is awful isn't it uh so december 28th 1984 uh iva myrtle lotson uh She's a widower. She's an older lady. She lives alone. Same kind of deal.

She ends up on December 28th, 1984. Her body is discovered in the pine trees near her home, like off in the side. She'd been bludgeoned and sexually assaulted at age 80. Yeah. Age 80. And she also lives just a few houses down from the Faulkners. Oh, boy. So this is kind of getting a little ridiculous now here.

Angus, you fucking phantom bad guy. We don't have any phantom killers. We got one. Come on. So her home was broken into, and she ran out of the home. Somebody came in, and she ran. This person chased her into the woods. Chased her into the woods and beat her to

death. And the police believed it was like a hit. They said it was like it was had all the markings of a planned killing, basically like the way it happened. Are they looking into an elderly mob yet? I think they're looking into. Yeah, there's a it's actually it's not the mob. It's

actually the guys who run the flea market. They don't let any new businesses in because it's very tight knit. And if you run afoul of them, this is what happens. This old broad trying to get her cross-stitch in here. Get the hell out of here with that. She kept complaining. They said, let's fucking shut her up permanently. Next thing you know, problems.

So July 4th, 1989, 4th of July, Kathleen Goulden. We'll talk about here. Kathleen Patricia Goulden. She's 23 years old. She manages a Fat Tuesdays, which is a nightclub in Baltimore. She lives in Elk Ridge. She manages a Fat Tuesdays. Everybody likes her.

She's a very nice person. The chain Fat Tuesdays? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not Ruby Tuesdays, but Fat Tuesdays. The alcohol slurpees in the wall. Right. Exactly. Ridiculous.

Drunky slushies in the wall here. So on the 4th of July, she goes to her parents' house. Has to eat crabs, as you do in Maryland. Sure. Which, god damn, that's a nice lifestyle, to eat crab all the time. I'd love to do that. She eats crab with her family. She comes home to her apartment.

It's on Old Washington Boulevard in Elk Ridge. She goes home to her apartment. Her apartment is locked from the inside. And they think that possibly there was some disturbance in a rear window. Like I said, she'd been at her parents'. She gets home. She was seen by her neighbor watching TV in her apartment at about 10 o'clock, Kathleen was. They also reported, residents here reported, seeing two men, quote,

hanging around in different sections of Elk Ridge looking suspicious. Now, what ends up happening here is there's some disturbance in the back by the rear window. She goes to look at it. All of her lights are on. And this is, I hate to say, this is just like in The Wire when D'Angelo talks and tells Wallace about how he killed this girl. Avon had a girlfriend. Avon, his uncle, was a drug dealer, had a girlfriend. And she was running her mouth and saying, oh, you don't treat me nice.

I'll go to the FBI, shit like that. Had D'Angelo go over there, knock on the kitchen window. She came out with a robe on, turned on the kitchen light, because that's what people do when they enter a room, and that makes it black to the outside. You can't see out, but you can sure as fuck see in. And D'Angelo shot her through the window with a.45 and killed her. And Bunk and McNulty ended up going back and retracing. It's a very good scene.

Anyway, this is the same thing that happened to her here. She goes to the back window, turns a light on. She's shot with a shotgun. Oh, my God. Through the window. That's loud. And that takes the whole window out. Absolutely.

Fired through there, through the shotgun. Twenty three year old girl shot in the chest. Jesus. In there. If you think that's enough that's enough that's plenty no no no no no this person then climbed inside the broken window and raped her holy shit raped her as she was dying from gunshot wounds to the chest what with zero fear of getting caught is that a shotgun as loud as shit a window breaking as loud as shit and a woman falling down screaming

these things are so fucking loud man this is brazen as fuck oh my god uh standing outside her first floor bedroom window so uh get second floor apartments yeah uh they performed an autopsy and found that like i said single gunshot shot wound to the chest and uh she died during the sexual assault that's how this poor woman fucking died man i can't even imagine can you uh this whole woman fucking died, man. I can't even imagine. This whole thing is fucking ridiculous, man. She's the daughter of a volunteer firefighter, and the town loves her. She's assistant manager at this Fat Tuesdays, and everybody there likes her.

She's very popular around town. Town residents established a $4,000 reward. They all chipped in for a reward fund because their dad's a volunteer fireman. Their family isn't wealthy like the rest of them. Anything, any kind of information that leads to her arrest. Like we said, the apartment was locked from the inside, so it had to have been the rear window, the whole deal. Now, this was 89. So this is the absolute tip of DNA.

This is when they just started and nobody knows what it is. Got it. This is like if you pay attention, you follow a lot of the O.J. Simpson trial. Yeah. That's a lock for everybody now. They look back, they're DNA. What the fuck? At the time, they were saying like the head prosecutor, the D.A. was saying, don't follow the DNA on this.

Don't trust it. They don't know what that is. And you can explain it to them. You can have scientists go up there. Their eyes are going to glaze over. They're here for six months. You can't explain science to regular people who don't give a shit. Like it wasn't on Law & Order every episode by then.

So they didn't see it. They need to see it. Now it's even worse, though, because now apparently. Oh, you can't. You can't convict shit without it. They're like, well, where's the DNA? Where's this? Where's that?

Like it's not always the way it works, but they see on CSI, we're waiting for the lab results. Okay, he killed him. That's it. End of story. But that's not how most things work here. CSI is only an hour long. You got to jam that shit in there. Exactly.

Exactly. And on that show, people who work in the crime lab carry firearms and point them at shit in crime scenes. So that's how realistic that fucking show is. Yeah, that's right. That's what it is. What are you, from the crime lab? Get your gun out.

We don't have that covered here with all these detectives and uniformed officers. Crime scene people don't go places on their own. When they go there, there's been 40 other cops standing around for 15 minutes jerking themselves off, smoking cigarettes and talking shit by the time they get there. Safe place. You don't need your gun out. smoking cigarettes and talking shit by the time they get there. It's a safe place.

You don't need your gun out. Also, the guy that's solving the crime in the lab also played Pat Garrett in Young Guns. Exactly. That guy doesn't even exist. That's not even a real guy. Fake people. And NCIS isn't a real thing either, old people. Sorry.

Can you imagine? I saw that. My ex-wife used to watch that show, and I used to get so angry at it. They pull out their guns, and they go, NCIS, freeze. And no one goes, what the fuck is that? No one says, what is NCIS? What does that mean? What are you, a Navy? I'm not in the Navy.

Can you even arrest? I don't know. I don't understand why you're talking to me. You're a Navy cop, and I'm not in the Navy. So I don't know. You can call the real cops, and they can come talk to me. What are we doing here? Put your fucking gun away, dude.

You're in the Navy. It's an abuse of power, sir. This is bullshit. Yeah. No. Oh, Mark Harmon's there. He's in the Navy. It's an abuse of power, sir. This is bullshit. Yeah, like, no. Oh, Mark Harmon's there. He's an NCIS. It's fine.

Anyway. So not a lot of- We'll let you in summer school. Let's slow down a sec. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, he's going to teach us some shit. He taught those two headbangers something. He can teach anybody. He got those guys that were psychopaths and just loved horror movies to calm down and buckle

into high school. High school. Yeah. Stupid. It's a calm down and buckle into high school. High school. Yeah. Stupid.

So, yeah, not a lot of forensics at this point. And especially it's very few jurisdictions were really using this sort of thing. You would have to like send it to a national crime lab. And the FBI had the equipment for it. It was very, very hard. The only piece of physical evidence they found, finally there's something. There's been nothing up to this point other than DNA that they haven't been able to do anything with. They find a discarded pizza box outside of her apartment.

Now there's a name on the box of a woman. So they find this woman back. They traced this box back to a woman in Anne Arundel County who claimed she'd been eating pizza shortly before the murders with a man, 34-year-old Vernon Lee Clark. Uh-oh. Okay. Layton prints on the box were then later matched to Clark. Okay. Okay. Now we

have something. We have a suspect, Vernon Lee Clark. Got it. And this, I have to say, guys, everybody, we don't usually, we don't look at like, it sounds like, we don't see race. But like, I pick out murders. I don't give a shit who killed who or what race or whatever. But it turns out most people that murder in small towns happen to be white. They do. It's just one of those fucking things.

It's weird. It's so hard to find black small town murderers. It really is. It's just black people kill people in the city. It's one of those fucking things. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. It's just hard to find black small-town murderers. It really is. It's just black people kill people in the city. It's one of those fucking things. I don't know what to tell you. It's just a weird – I mean, I know that sounds sweeping, but trust me. I've done the research.

There's not a lot of these fuckers out there. We've only had like two, I think, right? I think we've had two. Well, here's a third black guy. And it's funny because the only people that complain about it are black people. It's just so funny. Women complain that where's all the women killers and black people are like, yeah, you guys don't cover enough black people.

What the fuck? It's like they're killers. What do you want? Why do you want us to cover black people? It makes no sense. All right, fine. There you go. So anyway, Clark is an Elk Ridge residence, resident, residence.

He worked at a nearby rendering plant wrangling slaughtered animals. That's what he would do. That's his job, picking up slaughtered animals at the rendering plant. So they slaughter it and then he drags it? He picks them all up, scoops them up and does whatever with these slaughtered animals. That's his job. Imagine that's your job. Yeah, when they kill your puppy, I'm the one that picks it up and throws it in the incinerator.

That's his job. Oh, boy. Holy your puppy, I'm the one that picks it up and throws it in the incinerator. That's his job. Like, holy shit, man. That sounds depressing as fuck. He also would, that doesn't make a lot of money, shockingly enough, picking up dead animals that the government's just killed. So he would also do odd jobs and yard work and things like that for pocket money. He said they talked to Clark based on these fingerprints. That's a guy that you want to have a chat with here. Clark admits that he was near the home that night.

This is what I mean about you admit they get you in and you admit to that. Yeah. And then you're fucked. Now you're fucked. There's a big problem with you being right here, sir. But it's that thing when people are being interrogated by homicide detectives, they feel like if they can explain something away, give them a little bit that they'll believe and then they'll get out of it. And that's what it is.

So that's what stupid people do. Rather than just going, I ain't saying shit, fuck you. They say, no, I was there but I just stopped by randomly but I didn't like, you know, it's cool. Now you just put yourself at the crime scene and now you're at the crime scene and everything else flows from there.

I don't live anywhere near there. I was eating pizza clear across town. I just started walking, y'all. That's what I was doing. He says he stopped there randomly but was too fucked up on drugs to drive, so he was just wandering around. What a terrible excuse. Yeah. They interrogated him back and forth. He denied ever entering the home. And at the time, the cops were unable to place him inside the house, just on the outside.

So for a year, nothing happens. A fucking year, he goes, I was there, but I didn't kill her. And they go, I guess he was there, but didn't kill her. We don't know. We think he did it. We know he did it, but we don't know he did it. The thing about this that's really messed up is they find out Clark, in the mid to late 70s, worked odd jobs and handyman jobs around town and was employed by Dolly Davis. Dolly Davis is a yard worker and general laborer and also, shockingly enough, the Faulkner sanitation business. He also worked for them.

Really weird, right? I mean, that's sanitation business. He also worked for them. Uh-oh. Really weird, right? Yeah. I mean, that's super strange. Yeah. Once they found that out, they said the coincidence of this prompts them to look into other shit here. So a relative of the Faulkner's they talked to about Clark said that Clark also, like, he worked for CNS Faulkner, Inc., which is Carvel and Sarah Faulkner, Inc. Right. There for a while. Clark had left his job there about a year before they'd been murdered, the Faulkners.

He'd been a sanitation worker there between 77 and 78. Now, relatives of Dolly Davis recalled of Clark that he was – they just called him Vernon. They said he was a quiet local man that picked up extra money doing yard work at the home. that picked up extra money doing yard work at the home. Bridget Davis, who is Dolly Davis' niece, still lives at her home now. And she said that Dolly often hired all sorts of wayward people and local people and people off the streets to do work around the house, people that needed money. If someone needed money, she would find a job for them to do so she could give them a little money without them feeling like it's a handout.

And Dolly's niece lives in Dolly's house now? They moved into the house. Oh, how difficult. This is old money, she would find a job for them to do so she could give them a little money without them feeling like it's a handout. And Tali's niece lives in Tali's house now? They moved into the house. How difficult. This is old money, baby. I don't give a shit how many people are killed in that house. That's our estate and we're moving in there. Fuck that. Grandpa left this shit to me.

I'm moving in. I don't give a shit. I'll clean the blood off the walls. Don't worry. I don't know if I can do it. I'll clean the blood off the crown molding. It's fine. I think we're going to be all right here.

That's what people do, though. Rich people don't give a fuck. That's true. That clean the blood off the crown molding. It's fine. I think we're going to be all right here. That's what people do, though. Rich people don't give a fuck. That's true. That is an inheritance that they've been waiting for their whole life. And if I sell it now, that house isn't going to be worth as much. It's going to be worth a lot more in 20 years if I just stay in it. Totally, man. This Bridget Davis said, quote, she always wanted to give someone a chance.

She tried to hire the younger people who needed money, which is such a nice lady. Vernon, he attended Elk Ridge Elementary School, spent most of his school years in special education. He received a diploma in 1974, but he said, quote, but they but even then they wouldn't let me walk across the stage. None of the special ed kids were allowed to walk. So just in case, just in case. Yeah. In case they fall freakout. Just in case they fall or something. My son's in special ed, so we can make as much jokes as we want here because I have to go through fucking IEP meetings twice a year with 18 different teachers. So eat dicks.

What a nightmare. Eight meetings every year. Every year. When you walk into a meeting with your – if you go to a PTA or a teacher meeting, you expect one person. Yeah. We walk in, eight fucking people walk in the fuck eight people with laptops and charts and notes and different specialties and degrees and all sorts of they don't bring joey in there to that do they

shit no they bring me and my ex-wife if i'm you i'd swing on people it's it's you don't do this shit to my kids so well they're trying to help him. He's autistic. He goes into a meeting and the meeting is to decide the further... The meeting is to tell us about Joey and about his furthering education and what to do and what areas he needs to work on. I'd lose my mind if they're going to bring him into that. He wouldn't say he couldn't sit there.

He could sit there for an hour and a half and listen to boring shit like that and he'd be bouncing off the walls, this kid. So Vernon's a real stocky guy. He looks like a laborer. I mean, he looks like a dude that's been doing hard labor. Most of his friends and people that he hangs out with and places that he hangs out with are in Baltimore, in the city.

He says, quote, wages are better if you work outside the city. So he likes to work outside the city. He said, quote, I don't lead the kind of life that a lot of people in Howard County do. That's why they're looking at me. So he's saying I'm different from them. There's a bunch of rich people. I'm a poor dude and blah, blah, blah. So they're looking at me for that, which would make sense.

I mean, yeah, he's known to like most of the Elk Ridge residents around there as a handyman, you could call. And he's from the area and all that sort of thing. As this is all going on, in 1987 on, he'd been charged with drug possession and convicted on separate charges of assault and burglary. This is between 87 and 89. And then we have Kathleen Goulden and all that. He's been arrested once before and I think possibly twice on burglary charges

and he's also August 9th 1989 his assault is an assault because he punched and bit two county police officers after they informed him of a search warrant they had in the Goulding case for his place they authorized searching his car

and home as well as taking blood and saliva samples now because now they're starting to do DNA and he freaked the fuck out and bit and punched and went nuts on these officers. So he was incarcerated from August 9th to September 27th or 22nd

on the burglary and assault charges and then for some reason they let him go. January 26th, 1990 Vernon is going to work in the animal rendering plant there. He's going to work. And as he's on his way to work, cops arrest him. They're like, we've had enough of this shit. Within a week, the county and state police reopen files of the Faulkners and Dolly Davis also.

And they're also thinking about a couple others. They link him from the pizza box first, and then they go from there. The DNA samples, blood, semen, and other fluids are what finally links him conclusively, and they wait to then to arrest him. To arrest him, they wait for that. There's also, by the way, I gave you the killings

that were, there's other killings too that are in this wheelhouse. Really? Yeah, there's a lot around here where I found articles. I dug into the newspaper archives from that time in this area and just was looking for other things and there are elderly people robbed and killed in two miles

over here in a different county where I don't know if, I mean, I'm going to say I don't know, but I don't know if they put that together. I don't know if computers and how much they were talking, if it was a county over. I don't know if they heard about it. Jurisdictions were talking. Yeah, that's what I mean. Maybe they did and whatever, but I don't know if computers and how much they were talking, if it was a county over. I don't know if they heard about it. Jurisdictions were talking. Yeah, that's what I mean. Maybe they didn't, whatever, but I don't know.

Maybe I might have connected them to someone. I'm not sure. I'm not solving shit, so I don't know. But take a look at a police for people who actually have some sort of job to do that. So, yeah, they're talking about the other killings also the police are and wondering about those. This was a seven-month investigation. A $6,000 reward ended up being raised for Kathleen Goulden. Her family found a couple more thousand to chip into that.

They found out, like we said, that Clark worked for Davis and worked for the Faulkners. He was living with his mother when he got arrested in a small cottage, a little tiny house. Now, the police right from the start were focused on Clark from the pizza boxes because they got those tests back quick, but they did not receive the results of the DNA until late January. Wow. So months went by.

Wow. They got his samples in August. Yeah. Didn't get results until January. Wasn't like 45 minutes later. That's a long CSI episode. Where the fuck are those results, man? Dude, Christmas happened.

You realize that, right? Like, I went home, had a vacation, my kids opened presents, and we're back and I still don't know who Seaman this is. The whole season they're just waiting on it. Someone tell me who Seaman this is. Christmas just sitting there with his feet up. My God, man. So, yeah, they test everything. They said that the delay would have been an ideal time for him to run away.

But Clark said, quote, but I just figured it was just like the other times. I figured they wanted to talk to me because I'm the guy in town who does drugs. OK. I never thought about running away, he says. Where the fuck is he going to go? He's a drug addict. Good point. He has nowhere to go.

No money. Where's he going to run? Where's he going to find drugs? Yeah. You're going to run somewhere with no money and no drugs? It's good luck. Where's he going to find drugs? Yeah, you're going to run somewhere with no money and no drugs.

It's good luck. They said that the semen at the crime scene and the blood and saliva samples all matched Clark. They were analyzed through DNA testing procedure at the time. They began using in 1988 as officially law enforcement here. They did this through the FBI headquarters in Washington. That's why they had to send this to the FBI because they didn't have their own facility. Nobody did back then. This was the first time county police had ever used DNA testing as evidence

against someone accused of a crime. Ever. This is Howard County's first ever DNA case. Test one. Test one right here. They never have tried before. He gets arraigned. He appears in court in handcuffs and leg irons. He insisted that he, quote, knows nothing about what happened.

He said to Goulden he has no fucking clue. He also knows nothing about DNA. No. And in court during his arraignment, he also denies being in Elkridge at the night of her death. He said, I wasn't even in town. And they were like, actually, you admitted you were in town when we first interrogated you. You said you stopped by there, but we're too fucked up to know what was going on. Remember there was a pizza box. And they were like, actually, you admitted you were in town when we first interrogated you. You said you stopped by there, but we're too fucked up

to know what was going on. There was a pizza box. And then there's fingerprints. So we're pretty sure unless that woman went over there and dropped the pizza box off, but we're pretty sure she didn't rape her.

She didn't rape Goulden. Just a fucking hint. If you know anything about science, our semen does not come out of the vagina. Most of the time when a woman is shot and broke,

their house is broken into and they're raped to completion, that's usually a guy. Just a thought here. Sorry. Sorry. Just so you know. Clark shakes his head

and he denies the charge and he's kind of talking to himself the whole thing. He had moved to Baltimore and then moved back about 77, which is when he started getting these jobs and whatever. So who the fuck knows

what he did in Baltimore before that? Right. God only knows because it could have been anything. January 31st, 1990. He has now been linked to the other murders at this point. The state police are there putting this all together for these unsolved cases. Gary Gardner, who's a spokesman for the police department, said, quote, all we're saying right now is that we're investigating associations with some of the other murders. They had to dust off.

I mean, these are 10-year-old files. They're dusting off all these file cabinets full of things and digging back into them. Their friends are happy. Their families are happy. Closure. Yeah. Dolly Davis's friend said, quote, I had enough of it at the time, but if there's suspicion, I'm 100% for it. I had enough of it at the time, but if there's suspicion, I'm 100% for it.

I had enough of it at the time? I'm looking for her killer? I had enough hearing about all that murder shit now, but I guess if they got him, fine. Like, the weirdest. If there's suspicion, that's enough for me? Is that what she's saying? She said, if they're 100% sure, I'm all for it. But if there's suspicion of somebody what it's it's insane she

said quote we've tried to forget about what happened of course we want to see the killer brought to justice but there's a lot of pain involved in the memories who wants to remember a murder well you're gonna have to go through that because he did murder someone and we don't want to murder any more people so we're gonna have to try him sorry about that insane here sorry for your discomfort of going through this how about we keep the rest of society safe because this guy clearly will fucking do it again yeah oh absolutely shit yeah obviously over and over again go through it what do you think he was quiet from 84 to 89 he wasn't killing anybody no way baltimore police or howard county police there you go guys newspapers.com start there fucking search the victims search the years you can do years. You can do it. If I can do it, you can

do it, assholes. So anyway, so they're talking about him. They talk to another neighbor who they describe as a distinguished looking bespectacled man, not short of opinions. That's very descriptive. He says that he's always believed the neighbor's killer was an outsider

responsible for a quote over the fence job approaching from Route 1,ing ms davis at random without leaving any clue and then hopping back over the fence and taking off that's what he's always found uh so uh you know not true obviously short bespectacled man with no short no shortage of opinions no shortage of me and he's wrong too and he's always wrong. I don't know what I'm doing. Fucking nailed it. That's the quote I left out.

Then he said, I don't know what I'm doing. And they went, okay, never mind. It's fine. Oh, my God. Now, in his own defense, what is Clark saying about this? They're interviewing Clark here. In his own defense, he says that he relies on unreliable people. That's his defense. He says that

he's deemed unreliable since he's a black uneducated drug user, is what he calls himself, who has often been implicated by police in past crimes in a town that's heavily populated by whites, is what they're saying. He, Vernon Clark,

blames drugs for casting him into a shady lifestyle that made him a suspect of these things. He's like, look, I am doing drugs. That's my own fault for being a suspect. I didn't kill anybody. He says drugs have become now the defense is saying drugs are his defense. OK, that's not good. That's his chance in fighting the murder charge is he's on drugs.

And his quote about this is, this is fucking unbelievable. Quote, do you know what coke, morphine, and alcohol do to you? Anyone who does drugs will tell you that it'll knock you right out. I was in no condition to point a gun that night, but who's a judge going to believe, a cop or a drug user? Sorry. No, I'm not. That's not an excuse. That's not an excuse. That's not an excuse.

Coke, morphine, and alcohol? Alcohol. I mean. Yeah, you're going to probably want to take a little resty pie. But if you do this all the time, maybe you'll want to get your rape on. I don't fucking know because I don't do coke, morphine. I don't drink really either, so I don't know any of this shit. I don't know how all that works together.

All of that, that's a hell of a cocktail right there. But he says it'll knock you out, blah, blah, blah. Who are the judge going to believe, a cop or a drug user? It's like, well, a cop, if the drug user's DNA is all over a fucking dead girl, I would say I'm going to trust the cop on that one. And, you know, whatever. And they also interviewed him. The newspaper interviewed him at the detention center, Howard County Detention Center. He says he accounted for his actions on that night with the police.

He claims to have been on a heavy drug binge. The friends he says he was using drugs with, though, on the night of the killing, he says are – he readily admits are all, quote, drug addicts and prostitutes from Baltimore. That's who he was hanging out with. Jesus Christ, man. Did he just call himself Jesus? Yeah, drug addicts and prostitutes. I hang out with the wrong crowd.

Yeah, he's like, you know, so they accuse me of things and they're trying to take me down. I really think he's trying to put a Christ narrative on this whole thing here. He even says that his friends who are drug addicts and all that denied seeing Clark that night, though, which is a problem. He said he was with them, and they say, we weren't with him, and we know whose dick we're sucking. It wasn't his. So now,

after this, they end up, the state's attorney ends up charging him with a bunch of sex-related charges on top of the Goulden killing just for that, including first-degree rape and assault with intent to rape, which adds extra time and extra time even to killing. That's an aggravator, big time.

The charges, they told him about the charges, and he literally was just like, he was like, take the fuck out of your charges. He just blows it off. The newspaper reporter said it was taken extremely flippantly by him, which is very descriptive. Bah is a great word. Yeah, he was like, bah. Fuck out of here with that.

Somebody had to transcribe that shit. Bah. Is that an H in there? How many H's? Two H's, two A's you want to go with? B-W-H-H-A-A. I'm going to go bah. I think that's the one.

That's how you spell it fuck it we're doing that that's amazing uh he says clark says quote if there was any ever any trouble in town the police always came to me uh plus i've gotten trouble with reading and writing and i'm black but put that put that all together and i'm the solution to all the cops frustration uh wow plus i've got trouble with reading and writing, and I'm black. I don't think the reading and writing matters very much. The black part, it might. That honestly might with the police.

But I think the DNA part is more important on this one. It doesn't matter what color you are. Yeah, I think all of our semen's white. I think it's one of those. We all bleed red. We all semen white. So you're fucked, mister. Sorry. Sorry, that was gross. We all bleed red. We all bleed red. We all see him in white. So you're fucked, mister. Sorry.

Sorry, that was gross. We all goo white. I understand that was gross, but a point needed to be fucking made here. This ain't about race. It's about your fluids being on a dead person, which is not normal. None of my fluids have ever been on a dead person. Ever. Never happened.

They'll never find my Jacob's Ladder on anybody. Nothing. Nobody. Never. Never happened. They'll never find my Jacob's Ladder on anybody. Nothing. He denies that he told the police the facts that are detailed in his statements. He says he denies telling them because he told the detectives that one time he had peeked into Kathleen Goulden's window in her apartment.

And so he denies that. And he denies having told them that he only smoked marijuana that night, which is what he initially told them. He initially told them, I went there, wandered around, had the pizza box, all that shit. I looked in the window, kind of peeked in on her a little bit, and I wasn't that fucked up. I was just smoking weed, walking around. Got it. That was his initial statement. And then after that, he says he was drinking heavily.

He said he had sufficient quantities of cocaine and morphine, quote, to get myself staggering. And then he said that was just before the time when she was shot on late night on July 4th. He contends he drove to Baltimore City several hours before the shootings where he says he stayed up most of the night taking drugs with a woman whose last name he says he doesn't remember, which is a terrible alibi. There was this chick. I did drugs with her all night. I don't fucking know who she was, but Schultz said it straight. You talk to her. Wow. You guys go find her because I can't.

Yeah. So this ended up being at 1 a.m. The murder ended up happening. And police say he had been seen twice before loitering around this apartment complex. So this was he'd been he'd seen her a few times. This was something he was looking at, and he was like, I'll go back to that apartment now when I have the pharmaceutical guts to do it. Exactly.

He says that he admits to have been in the parking lot next to the apartment building in the hours before she was shot, but he says he only stopped there for a few minutes, at which time all he did there is a very simple thing. He stopped. I love how this is the central point for him to do anything like he's eating a pizza. He's stopping by. He's doing it's all this apartment complex for some reason. He said he stopped for a few minutes, at which time he snorted some cocaine and did the morphine

is what he said. And then he left for the city after that leaving her behind uh the gun used in the killings though the problem is the gun used in the killings came from his fucking workplace so kind of ties you in the bronze animal rendering plant in eldridge that's where it's from uh he says that he hates guns and was always afraid of using the shotgun at work. Uh, so it's definitely not him. Uh, also the owner of the company, a guy named Carol Braun said the same thing. He, uh, he, he, uh, he contact, he, this guy contacted a reporter to vouch for Clark's character.

It's like, not him. He's a good guy. He said, quote, yeah, he heard about the gun and said that's not how it went down. So his defense is somebody stole the gun from my job. Not him. Went and raped these women and then ejaculated my semen into them. But not him. Yeah, exactly.

Onto them. Ejaculated, stole the gun from my job that I have access to. Shot my load all over them. And then somewhere where I've been stalking recently also. It's like someone's trying to steal my identity, man. That's the thing. He should be complaining to the cops. Look, man,

there's a guy following me. You gotta get him. Who knows what he's gonna do next? He's a bad guy. He's a bad dude. Clearly. He's raping people and ejaculating on them. It's horrible. Withulating on them it's horrible with my load how's he getting my load you guys i don't know but this is a crazy case and i guess we'll never know the answer okay have a good one guys i'm gonna go home now like whoa whoa whoa whoa get

back here get back here and then he then he turns into shagging he pulls a mask off someone he goes finally meddling kids so anyway yeah so he's an animal skinner there. The Carol Braun owner guy says, quote, Vernon never, ever wanted to touch that gun. He says the gun was used to kill suffering animals. The guy says, quote, he was always very afraid of using it and always ran the other way when we handled it. Clark openly admits his drug problems, but he says violence, quote, just isn't me. I'm no nasty person. I'm no hard person to get along with.

Long as you let me rape you, everything will be fine. He said, quote, that last part was not what he said. He said, quote, you never know with this fucking guy. Quote, if you drink a lot and you do drugs, then police will blame you for anything, is what he said. He said he was, quote, the usual suspect in Elk Ridge. It's just the cops just knocking on my door again every time. April 1991 is the trial for him.

He doesn't plea. He's taken it to court. Dead to rights on DNA. But back then, that was- He had no idea. They didn't know him. I'm sure the defense attorney was like, fucking juries don't understand that shit i don't understand that shit who cares we're fuck that no we're going to trial right yeah the state said it tends to present evidence that will make it

absolutely clear that kathleen's kathleen goulden's life ended when the defendant fired a shotgun through her bedroom window that's pretty simple uh public defender Barbara Cranor has a different opinion. She says that the state's evidence does not support its theory of murder. She says, quote, what you will find, you will find that evidence is missing. The evidence does not make any sense at all. What's missing is anyone who saw the crime, anyone who heard the shotgun blast on July 3rd. None of that shit matters. Who needs that?

You know why? Because there's fucking semen on her. So he was there. There's no way that he's not. You know what's missing? Anyone who heard the shot. So what are you saying? She wasn't shot in the chest with a shotgun? There's her fucking corpse with pellets in it you asshole. What's the alternate

theory? Fucking they fell from the sky on her? What's the alternate theory? That's the most ridiculous thing to say. Was it a stray from Baltimore? We've already established we're well outside of stray range. That's bullshit. A stray cluster of pellets. Yeah, right in the chest.

Right. And through her window. Right. At a perfect height that makes it so someone shot her from out there and not the sky. Right. And then the sky raped her, too, on top of that. Big cloud dick came in. God damn cumulus.

Fucking bastards. God damn it. Big cumulus cock raped her. Oh damn it. Big cumulus cock raped her. Oh, my God. Cumulus cock. So we had a cold cock last week, a cumulus cock. Any word will put cock on it. That's really lazy joke writing.

It really is. We both do it, too, because it's funny. It's funny with a syphilitic tail dick on Alaska. Jesus Christ. Sorry, everybody. We're going to get better. We're going to clean it up. We're going to get better.

No, we're not going to clean it up, but we're going to get smarter about our jokes. We're going to clean up the sloppy jokes. Yes, there you go. There you go. Not clean it up. We'll clean up the sloppy dicks. Sorry. Oh, my God.

So he's maintaining his innocence. His defense attorney is trying to get him off. She says, quote, he does not have a lot of learning, a lot of ability, but he will allow prosecutors to question him with all of their learning and all of their lawyering experience. She's trying to act like he's like, you know, Mother Teresa because he's going on the stand to be questioned to try to talk his way out of murder and rape. Like, sorry, that doesn't make him a great guy. Ridiculous.

Some weird shit during this trial the mother the county judge bars the mother of kathleen goulden from uh from being at the trial oh that's not right oh it's crazy the victim's rights advocates advocates go bat shit about this it's the defense council's request at their request they do this uh because the defense council uh barbara crane crane here requested that she be removed from the courtroom as mrs goulden uh because the defense counsel, Barbara Cranor here, requested that she be removed from the courtroom, Mrs. Goulden, because the defense may call her as a witness. Now, any time you're a witness, you can't watch the trial because you can't know what other people say to back that up. So all witnesses in the trial are under a sequestration order.

She said, quote, the defense lawyers represented that she would possibly be called as a witness for the reason, for that reason. I did. So is what the judge said about it. Members of this victim's advocacy advocacy advocacy group are freaking the fuck out about this. This is a ridiculous. What the hell is the defense attorney going to call the victim's mother who wasn't there for in the case? It's obviously just so the jury doesn't see this woman sobbing. Right. And saying, oh, no, that

looks bad for us here. They say the victims group says that the exclusion of Margaret Goulden violates a 1989 state law which says victims or representatives of victims can only be barred from the courtroom after a finding of good cause. And a finding of we may call her even though she doesn't know anything about this isn't really good cause. Oh. And a finding of we may call her even though she doesn't know anything about this isn't really good cause. Now, they say obviously this group says that the exclusions of family members are to keep jurors from seeing emotional family members during the trial.

They said, quote, ask yourself how you would feel if you were deprived of the right to see and hear with your own eyes and ears what happened. Yes. Clearly the parent of a homicide victim who knows nothing about the event that led up to the child's death wasn't at the crime scene or doesn't know the defendant has nothing to contribute to the trial proceedings. Defense attorneys may be doing this within the law, but they're certainly doing it in an unethical fashion. No doubt. Perfectly said here.

The prosecutors in the case subpoena Margaret Goulden, but they released her as a state witness so she could attend the trial. They didn't subpoena Margaret Goulden, but they released her as a state witness so she could attend the trial. They subpoenaed her to get to – because she was at the house beforehand just to say what happened before she went there. But then they said it's not worth it to let her not be able to watch the trial. So they said never mind to try to be good to the mother. And then the defense said maybe we'll do it. Maybe we'll call her here. It's so stupid here. They said, quote, the defense invoked the rule of sequestration of a witness by representing that she was a potential defense witness.

Under the rule, the court has no alternative but to request her sequestration. That is crazy. So they just found a way to kick the mother out of court. That's horrible. It's horrible. I don't think you could do that anymore. Oh, I hope not. I think the judge nowadays would go, what are you going to call her for specifically?

Right. Is that part of your case? Right. Tell me how that's relevant the plan and then i'll tell you that yeah and then i'll get her and then an appeal they would say the reason why they lost was because they were they weren't allowed to call that witness for no reason so that's what it is uh prosecution relying heavily on dna evidence that links clark to the rape this is all golden none of the others are on the table here. So they explain DNA in this thing. It's a genetic code. It's so funny. Like, when you read a 1990, like, description of DNA, it's like, oh, it's moon science.

They went to the moon and they found a thing and they're, hoo-wee, boy, it's crazy. Like, it sounds nuts here. They put the thing in the thing and they shake the magic ball and then it pops up and says maybe. He says he did it. He said check his penis. So the prosecutor said quote Clark didn't leave fingerprints but he left us something better than that. His DNA to tell us that he did it. That's what he said in court.

Defense attorney here is Barbara Cranor who's got brass balls on her. Wow. She disputed the significance of DNA which is amazing because you can only do it. Try that now in trial. Of course she feels stupid today. Try that today. The jury would laugh at you.

The jury themselves would be like, is she out of her fucking mind? How many episodes of CSI I've seen? Oh, my God. They never would have caught anybody. She said, quote, I suggest that in this case it means nothing, is what she said. quote, I suggest that in this case it means nothing, is what she said. She added that producing the evidence that DNA found at the crime scene could be Clark's would not be the same as proving that it is Clark's. Because DNA says you're included in the group it could be.

That group is about two people out of six billion. That's you. But she's saying, that's not saying it's Clark's. It's saying it doesn't get rid of, it doesn't exclude Clark. I was going to say disclude him. Like, that's not a word. Not a word. I saw it happen.

Christ, oh, yeah. I was like, ah. So that doesn't exclude Clark. So that's her thing. Like, we need to get an inclusion, not an exclusion, which, no, that's not how DNA works. So sorry. And we'll take the odds. He was there, pizza box.

Two people. If two people in the entire world have similar or close to enough DNA, they're not at the same fucking place at the same fucking time. No, this is what it would have to be. He's there. He eats the pizza. He leaves the pizza box. He walks away. Another guy comes up with his exact DNA to the same apartment he was, and decides to shoot and rape this woman,

which happens to be kind of what he does. Unbelievable. Fucking coincidence. This poor man. Poor man. Let him go. Poor Vernon. This poor guy. The cops just fuck with him.

You poor son of a bitch, Vernon. So in the actual trial here, witnesses come up, obviously. Uh, witnesses come up, obviously, uh, Kathleen's best friend said that they had joked about her, uh, Goulden's tendency to be absent-minded about security measures. They had joked about that. Uh, like she said, uh, quote, I'd say is the door locked. And she'd say, don't worry about it. You're an Elk Ridge. That's what it would be.

So that's small town shit right there. Don't worry about no one's going to kill me. I'm an Elk Ridge. What are you talking about? This isn't Baltimore. What the fuck? And that's kind of the point of our show is that, worry, but no one's going to kill me. I'm in Elk Ridge. What are you talking about? This isn't Baltimore. What the fuck? And that's kind of the point of our show is that it's no one's safe ever. She worked with Gould in there and they knew each other.

The defense questioned this woman about Goulden's relationship with an employee she fired from Fat Tuesdays. They were trying to put it on like a disgruntled employee. She fired from Fat Tuesdays. They're trying to put it on like a disgruntled employee. This woman testified that the man Goulden fired tried to force the two women into a parked car in the summer of 1989. This is right before this happens. It's like June. This guy tried to force them into a parked car. Goulden tried to run after the man.

But this woman stopped her and said, no, no, don't go out because I guess they wouldn't get in the car. And then he took off and she tried to go after him like, hey, motherfucker. And don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. The other just the witness said, no, no, no. Let's go back inside. We got away from him.

That's the point. Now we don't try to get back in the car now after we just got away from it. But she also said, quote, I don't think I don't think Goulden was afraid of him, but he upset her a lot. But just it wasn't afraid of him. Other witnesses testified that Clark was in the parking lot of Goulden's apartment building, which, by the way, this building was formerly the Elk Ridge Elementary School. Weird, right?

And now it's an apartment building? And now it's an apartment complex. What, are they staying in, like, they turned the classrooms into— I assume they knocked it down and built apartments, I would think. That's what it sounds like here with all the new construction, too. Like we talked about, that makes sense that they would knock. But that's where he went to elementary school, which is crazy. So this guy could have raped and killed someone in like his math class from fourth grade.

Like, how weird is that? That's bizarre. Super bizarre. Right. Insane. So they said that they they had seen him in the parking lot on at least two occasions prior to the shooting, which sounds like he was planning it. prior to the shooting, which sounds like he was planning it. Responding to a report of a suspicious person in June of 1989,

Howard County Police Officer Maurice Carroll found Clark slumped in the front seat of a white Ford station wagon in the parking lot. He said he was having car trouble and was waiting for the car to cool off in there. But he was always in this parking lot. It's the only place he can go is this complex, man. It's the only place you can eat pizza, the only place you can snort coke and do morphine and wait for your car to cool down. Very coincidental. This place is just the center of the universe.

For a guy that doesn't live in this apartment complex, he's there an awful lot. He's there a lot, yeah. Detective John Noonan testified that during the interview at the police station when they first took him in, July 11th, 1989, he said that on the night of July 3rd, after eating pizza with friends, he drove to the parking lot of the apartment building. The officer said, quote, he said he rolled a joint, snorted some Coke and left the area to drive to Baltimore where he spent the night at a friend's house. That's what Clark's statement was. Clark said he'd been to the apartment building before to look for cans and trash. That's the only reason why he was there.

But he had also seen Goulden on a couch through her window one time. That was it. I know who she is because I saw her while I was looking for cans and rolling joints and snorting Coke and fucking waiting for my car to cool down and eating pizza. And, you know, I just live in the parking lot. Did I ever tell you that? I got a tent out there. I just stay out there all the time.

All this shit I was doing, I happen to remember that I once saw her sitting on her couch. Yeah. How do you even remember that? He gets to that. And then the police officer said, quote, he was calm and upset, which is a weird place to be about him during the interview. During the questioning, he said, quote, he started crying at one point toward the end of the conversation. That's a bad thing.

I didn't kill anybody and you're accusing me of it. I ain't crying. No, I am yelling at you and fucking pointing at you and you're going to have to cuff me because I am getting the fuck out of here. Otherwise, literally, we're fighting or you're cuffing me if you're accusing me of shit that I didn't do. End of story. I'm never crying.

Wow. Final day of testimony in the two-week trial. It's Vernon Clark time. All right. He takes the stand like a complete fucking moron. Takes the stand. He tells the jury he didn't rape and murder Goulden, obviously, Kathleen Goulden. He talks about how he's a laborer.

And that night he spent the night taking drugs with prostitutes in Baltimore, which is the best excuse, obviously. I think he thought that sounded like something you wouldn't want to admit, so they're going to buy it. It's one of those. I'll bet you're absolutely right. Exactly. No one's going to say they were shooting up fucking morphine and coke with prostitutes.

I'll tell you all this shit because it's illegal and bad enough. Yes, exactly. But I didn't do that shit. I'm not that much of a scumbag. It's the window that prosecutors talk about. That's the thing they gave him. They gave him that window and they said, well, maybe you didn't do it, but you were there that night in that parking lot. And that's when he said, well, okay, I was there.

That's the window. Okay, now that window just shut. And now you're fucked. And you're trapped inside. Exactly. Exactly. So the prosecutors reiterate through closing arguments that he shot Gould in the chest through the window of her ground floor apartment and sexually assaulted her while she was bleeding after he ate pizza. Wow. He says that after he left with the leftover pizza, he visited a friend's Furnace Road, picked up clothes and went to Baltimore where he took more cocaine and morphine with friends from 11 p.m. to 5 a.m.

Yes. His recounting of the events obviously contradicts his earlier statements and testimony and also testimony from inmates who spoke with Clark at the detention center when he was being held. Also, yeah, Damon Brooks, who was jailed with him from January through April on a charge of assault with intent to murder, testified that he spoke with Clark several times. In late February, Clark admitted to the killing but said that prosecutors didn't have any evidence against him, is what this guy testified. He also testified about a conversation with Clark just the previous week at the detention facility in the courthouse in which Clark said that he was, quote, that, quote, even though our bodies were touching, they couldn't find one of my pubic hairs on her in the car

or in the carpet. Wow. So he shaves. He's saying, yeah, well, he's saying somehow they didn't find my shit, because I doubt in 1989. Yeah, he wasn't shaving. Crackhead was shaving his nutsack here. Now, in return for his testimony, Brooks was released on personal recognizance from the detention center, this witness for this, where he was being held on a $100,000 bond.

On assault with intent to murder? He's got reason to lie. I don't know if I believe this guy. I don't know that I do either. I don't know, but I don't need to believe this guy. They just needed to have – this is one of those, too, where I feel like this happens a lot and it doesn't believe this guy. I don't know that I do either. I don't know, but I don't need to believe this guy. They just needed to have. This is one of those two where I feel like this happens a lot and it doesn't make it right. But prosecutors and police, they know they have the right person. He's DNA.

This is the guy. But they're going, that fucking jury is, what if they don't understand DNA? And he's just like, I was shooting drugs in Baltimore. And they're like, maybe you shouldn't. We need somebody's words. We need somebody to say, I heard him tell me this, that for some reason, that's enough. The word of a fucking criminal who is getting a deal out of this means more than DNA evidence. That's how stupid people were in 1991 is what I'm getting

at here. Well, prosecutors also offered him a plea agreement in which they will seek a maximum sentence of seven years instead of ten. So he gets three years knocked off his sentence with this also. And he gets to go out on his own recognizance while the trial is going on. Big deals here. Also, an Anthony Castranda, who's an acquaintance of Clark's and a former inmate of the detention center, said that Clark told him he had taken the shotgun used in the killing back to work. Police believe the gun obviously was from the rendering plant, like we said. Castranda testified that he saw a shotgun in the back of Clark's white station wagon when Clark gave him a ride shortly before July 3rd, 1989. Oh, that's not good.

So he just put the gun in the car with him. before July 3rd, 1989. Oh, that's not good. So he just put the gun in the car with him. FBI firearms experts testified that the mineral composition of the pellets obtained from Goulden's body was similar to the composition of pellets seized by police at the rendering plant. Same bullets from the place, basically, is what they just said. He denies speaking to Brooks. Clark does.

He denies speaking to Castranda about the charges against him. Clark and his employers at the plant testified he was scared of guns, and that's his story. That's the end of it. Yeah. The plant manager said, like we said, he wouldn't touch the gun, but he did call him a good worker. Said he was a very good worker.

April 17th, 1991, he is convicted of everything, of murder, sexual assault, murder assault with intent to rape, perverted practice, and use of a gun in a felony. Nice. All of these things he is convicted of. He is obviously detained without bail at the county jail. I don't think you're letting this guy out.

Waiting on sentencing. Waiting on sentencing. August 16, 1991. Super weird. This is sentencing day. Yeah. Okay. Howard County judge postpones the sentencing of Vernon Clark after an anonymous correspondent

wrote him and the defense lawyer a letter claiming that he knew Clark was innocent. This is just a letter. Yeah. Anybody could have wrote this. His mom could have wrote this. Fucking anyone could have wrote this. Anonymous letter. Circuit Judge Raymond J. Kane Jr. He's a fucking junior. That's his problem.

He delayed the sentencing of Vernon Lee Clark until October 10th to give the public defender's office time to investigate the letter writer's allegations. The writer claimed to be a witness with knowledge of the July 3rd, 89 murder. That's what they said. Quote, I'm a person willing to step forward and admit Vernon Lee Clark had no involvement in the murder. The letter said here it's a handwritten letter. It's not typed. The letter, they expressed concern about appearing in court as a witness, though. Quote, for fear of danger for my life. But I I don't want an innocent man to go to prison for something he didn't do.

And they even said, but I dot dot dot don't want like innocent man to go to prison for something he didn't do. And they even said, but I dot, dot, dot, don't want, like, they were dramatic pause. They gave an ellipsis in there. Some fucking suspense to this thing. But, like, just a fear of a witness. It's so ridiculous. According to this also, this person knows the defendant, obviously. The killer of Kathleen in her Elkridge apartment was over six feet tall

and had light brown skin with a medium thick build, which is not Vernon Clark. Vernon Clark's about 5'9", dark skin, very thick. So different here. Prosecutor Timothy Wolf said he didn't oppose delaying sentencing to, quote, to give the defense an opportunity to see if something comes out of it. But he also said that the delay based on anonymous allegations was a bit unusual, and he called the letters, quote, meaningless because there's no real suggestion of anything, which is true.

Now, the public defender, the Cryin' R lady, says that the delay was essential for Clark because, quote, because it has given us a reasonable opportunity to investigate and determine if there's a basis for a motion for a new trial based on new evidence of one person not even identifying who the fuck they are sending a letter. This sounds to me like the judge just covering all bases because he knows an appeal is coming. That's it. It's like, what is it, three weeks? I'll sentence him. Don't worry. You investigate it, and then I'll fucking send him to the chair.

It's no big deal. She said, quote, we are taking this very seriously. The best possible scenario is that the letter writer will get in touch with our office and meet with our investigator. In my three years of felony trial work, I have never heard of anything like this happening before. Because you fucking made it up. You barred the mother. You tried every cheap bullshit, cheap parlor trick in the fucking world. And now you're going to try this shit?

Wow. I fucking hope this lady got disbarred. Fuck you, Kreiner. You're an asshole. I know you're a public defender and you have to defend people, and you do. You should defend people to the utmost of your abilities and with the fucking vigor because people get falsely accused all the time. Fairest shit possible. This guy's not falsely accused.

You did your job. You defended him. Now fucking let him go to jail. Don't sit here and act like you're going to write letters and like he's an innocent man that needs to be saved. What did she say? The first thing that she said was it's fucking hysterical because we're going to we're going to find this to the to the end. Is that what she said? She said it's given us an opportunity, a reasonable opportunity to investigate and determine if there's a basis for a motion for a new trial based on new evidence.

We're treating it very seriously. I hope that we treat this very seriously and find a fingerprint matching this fucking guy. Exactly. I hope it comes right the fuck back to his cell. Or his brother or his mom or his friend. The best case scenario, it comes right back to his fucking cell because that would be hilarious. His boss must just not want to try to find another animal wrangler. He's like, this guy skins animals like nobody's business.

Nobody else will touch these fucking things. I need this guy, you understand? So anyway, sentencing finally comes up in October and the judge is not amused with him at all or his tactics and the judge sentences him. You, sir, may definitely fuck off. Life in prison plus 28 years.

Wow. Just in case. My Christ. You're fucked. Go away. No parole. No parole. He's terrible.

Life plus 28 years. So there's a possibility in there if he lives to be 110 or some shit. He's like 35 years old. 1996 comes along, though, and he gets resentenced. Now, there's a problem here. It's crazy because the case goes back to the circuit court for a sentencing hearing after the state court of special appeals ruled that a judge could have considered sentencing Clark to life in prison without parole, which was the penalty originally sought by county prosecutors. The judge said that at the 1991 sentencing, he thought technical errors prevented him from issuing a life without parole sentence, which I don't understand what those technical errors are, and he doesn't get into them. He believed the prosecution hadn't given Clark enough notice that the sentence was being sought, which is an odd thing here, which he was trying to cover his own ass.

This judge is all about covering his own ass. Clearly, he's covered his ass four times, though. You're not wrong, but he's— No, that's fine. I'm just sayingnon should have known that life without parole was on the table as soon as he shotgun blasted a chick in the chest the one and other things yeah i mean that's that's that's that's a minimum absolutely right there minimal right there uh yeah bludgeoned an old lady with a hundred pound rock life without parole is on

the table sir i would say so so at a hearing here, prosecutor urged Judge Cain Jr. here to give Clark the maximum sentence while a public defender asked that there's no change to the sentence, please. He said he sided with the defense attorney, the judge does, saying that he was confident that the state parole commission would not release prisoners with murder convictions before they should be out in the community, which we've seen is not true. with murder convictions before they should be out in the community, which we've seen is not true. He said, quote, I don't forget the egregious nature of this case, but I'm not going to change the sentence, which is crazy. Yeah.

So he's got a life sentence plus 28 years. 1999, Howard County Police Detective Keith Fisher talks about investigating the Dolly Davis murder, and now they're starting to put the other cases together. There's a Detective Fisher here. He says that they finally found the evidence now to charge him in 1999 with Dolly Davis's death. Also, Baltimore police, also Baltimore County, because it was right over, also charged Clark in the fatal beating of Evelyn Dietrich that year, too, in 81. So they believe that Clark was her gardener and was Davis's gardener. And he was Dietrich's handyman and collected trash in her neighborhood.

Got it. That's where he found her. This detective said, quote, you forget the solved cases. You never forget the unsolved ones. We were desperate. So they were looking. He stumbled upon evidence at the right time. They said there was a tip called in in 1998 that looked like a good lead to this guy, he said. And he said, quote, because of that lead, we had to pull in the evidence that didn't lead anywhere. But then when he looked

at that case, he found a slide with DNA evidence from the crime scene that they didn't fucking know was there. And they hadn't looked at it in 10 years to figure it out. Assholes. This is why we make fun of shit like this. Yeah. He said that, you know, it had always been there, but it was just they, well, at first it's not their fault, but they still could have taken it out. Back then it was too small to test. The sample was too small to test.

Now you can test a flake of anything. A cell they'll test now. But back then it was too small to test and that was the test a flake of anything. A cell will test now. But back then, it was too small to test, and that was the deal. So they didn't bother testing it again later. He said that some of the evidence collected 19 years ago was not valuable 19 years ago. The last time anyone looked at anything seriously in the Davis case was before there was even DNA technology available. So now they can match very small samples to things. And guess what?

They said in this case, the sample was minute and they reexamined it several times. And also, too, they said outdoor outdoor cases like the Davis case are always more difficult because the evidence is exposed to the elements, which is true. She was outside for a week after this and the technology couldn't do anything for it. But now they can. So they end up matching him to that. Wow. They match him to Davis.

They charge him there. At the time of the Goulden investigation, by the way, the technology for DNA required a dime-sized saturated sample with no more than a little contamination. That's so much. So you had to have a lot, and it had to be touched. It had to be like a teaspoonful that they could slap on a slide. That's a lot. That's a lot. Now it's a speck of your flake.

Now you can touch something and they'll get off of your oils on your fingers. They'll get your goddamn DNA off. It's insane. So they matched the Davis DNA to her. And then they said knowing Clark's relationship with Dietrich, the police contacted more police to do similar testing. And they did. They make the arrest again in prison here. Lieutenant Tim Branning said he was thrilled.

I thought about the Davis case every time I drove by Lawyers Hill Road, and that was hundreds of times. That's where she lived. He is formally charged with that. He hasn't entered a plea yet on this one. They're also planning new tests on evidence collected in several other homicides to see whether Clark could be named as a possible suspect. They re-examine other cases like Irva Myrtle Watson, the 81-year-old who

was killed. They say forensic science is changing so fast, if you don't constantly read, you're left behind. This has been an education for the whole department. They end up arresting him for this murder as well. Fisher says the arrest he shares with the entire department, it's not just him. He said, quote, they did the best they could with the technology there.

I'm just lucky the guy who was here when science caught up with – I'm just lucky I was the guy who was here when science finally caught up to Vernon Clark, which makes sense here. So they charge him in Dietrich's case. They charge him in all of these. He's been in Maryland Department of Corrections, Annex and Jessup since then. September of 2000, he is sentenced to another life sentence. Wow. Yeah, after he pleaded guilty to the murder of Evelyn Dietrich. Now,

they had him dead to rights and he knew it. And then February 2001, he gets a third life sentence when he pleads guilty to the murder of Rebecca Dolly Davis. Great. Also, which is terrific. April 9th, 2015, they indict Clark on the Watson murder also, the Iva Watson murder. November 16th, 2015, he pleads guilty to the murder of Watson and receives another life sentence here.

My Christ. First degree murder and rape of Iva Myrtle Watson. So he is going away for a goddamn long time. State's attorney's office spokesman said that prosecutors knew he had been a suspect in the case because of the similarities between all of these murders. And they just were waiting to put it all together here. And now he is in prison sitting there for life and a day and 28 years and four lives and however many lives you can muster.

He's in prison for them. They not hit him for the Faulkner murders yet. They have not hit him for the Faulkner murders yet. That's the one they haven't because there was no DNA to that one. They haven't been able to tie it to them. Yeah, but they've got Gould and Watson, Davis. He's got all these. So he's got plenty of life sentences here.

Just not the Carvel Faulkner, but they know he killed Carvel Faulkner. It's one of those. There's no goddamn way he didn't kill Carville Faulkner. But yeah, so he's gone away for a while. That's good. That's a crazy story. Unbelievable. That shit could linger for that long and who knows what he did between

84 and 89. Who doesn't know? Who knows how many of what he did. How do we not know about this? This is crazy. It's got a name. It's the mannequin murders. We should know about this shit. Like, how do we not know about it? It's batshit that we don't know about. It really isn't. I couldn't believe no one else covers this anywhere. It hasn't been a thing anywhere.

Nice job, James. Whatever. Fuck. I don't know. I just found it in a thing and looked it up. I didn't do anything. Not like I killed anyone and ejaculated on them. I just found the information. That's all I did. It's a hell of a story. But I wish they would investigate some of those other cases because I found so many similar cases that are well above my pay grade to check out because that's not what I do. You don't have a science lab?

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It really, really is. If you want to get a hold of the show, you can do that at Murder Small on Twitter, Facebook.com slash SmallTownPod or CrimeAndSports at gmail.com. Right. And, God, why don't you hit us, Jimmy, with the list of the most wonderful people in the world, because I can't wait to hear them. Truly, we can't do this without each and every one of you guys. Thank you guys so much.

People like Megan Smith, who donated twice this week. Thank you so much, Megan. The executive producers this week happen to be Chrissy Ann Costaldi, Megan Schmelzenbach. I think that's it. That's a good one. That was amazing.

Holy shit. Wow. Thank you. We don't talk about what the dollar figures are, but the money that she gave was that was a lot it was so helpful thank you that's so sweet that was wow an unbelievably generous thing to do so thank you so much we actually like called each other over there yeah i believe that that's amazing oh my god you're a nice person we deserve that thank you and then don holloways as well yeah fucking incredible insane god damn it thank you so much seriously guys sarah gilbo continues every week to send to send something incredibly generous to you.

You guys make it so we have a studio to improve the sound on. This is what I mean. Yeah, we've got shit to do here because of you guys. Yeah, but we have really cool equipment and we'll make it happen. That's true. Laura Odom, Sarah Carter, Alice King, Jeanette Holm, Marissa Wells, Brian Deni... Fuck. Deniu? Deni? Brian Deni? He gave us money?issa Wells Brian Dennehy Brian Dennehy gave us money Thanks Brian Dennehy

The Color Chick I imagine she makes I imagine she does people's hair That's gotta be right Google her and pay that girl some money Give her cash Brianna Krantz donated both ways Through PayPal and through Patreon.

Jeremy Sterk, I think that's right. Kapow Designs, Kapower, thank you so much. Linda Bone, Marcus Redwine, Redwine, yes. David Houghton, damn it. Ah, fuck. Hofton, H-O-U, shit.

Dan Rogers has been fantastic for the past few weeks and so involved thank you dan uh kimberly huggins melissa schmaltz uh betty bice thank you so much uh alex marchi elizabeth uh height brink height brink i think that's right uh jake labir uh jacqueline hall uh she's terrific on uh on snapchat too thank you j, Jacqueline. John Rita. Megan Smith. I mentioned her already. Thank you. Megan, you're fantastic.

Thank you. We appreciate it. Eric Mauger. Michael Carfunkel. Carfunkel. Yeah. And Michael Kennedy, too. I know a Mike Kennedy.

He wouldn't give us money. Never. And that's fine, too, because I wouldn't want a dime from that fuck. This Mike Kennedy. Thank you. He needs that money. This Mike Kennedy is fantastic. Thank you.

Timothy Young. David Grimes. Shit. Shannon Feltus. Oh, yeah, yeah. Shannon Feltus. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

She did. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Shannon. Jesse Cartman. No, Hartman. God damn it. Elizabeth Britton. Britton.

B-R-I-T-T-I-N. So you sound like an asshole trying to pronounce Britton. Yeah, maybe it's Brighton. It could be. I don't think so. It's probably Britton. Britton. B-R-I-T-T-I-N. So you sound like an asshole trying to pronounce Britton. Yeah, maybe it's Brighton. It could be. I don't think so. It's probably Britton. Yeah, yeah. Laura Hampson.

Carol Braun. Michelle Duff McCracken. Duff McCracken. That's a tough one. Duff McCracken. Yeah. Thank you so much, Michelle. That was very nice of you.

Bass player for Guns N' Roses or something to quit. I think you're... That was Duff McCracken. All right. Sorry about very nice of you. Base player for Guns N' Roses or something to quit? I think you're... Sorry about that. Ellery Hirsch. That's it. Samuel Wetmore. Leslie Rout. Yes. Carrie? No.

Henry. Henry Lockwood. Did you get Carrie out of Henry? Yeah, because I thought I saw two R's. That's all. Sorry, Henry. Rebecca Porch. Yes. Matt Williams. I hope it's. That's all. Sorry, Henry. Rebecca Porch. Yes. Matt Williams. I hope it's the third baseman. He was fantastic.

Yeah, he'd be great. Thank you, Matt. Jaybird Wedbetter, of course. Yeah, we love you, Wedbetter. And Nitch. James Cook is fantastic. Thanks for everything, James. Anthony Dugan or Duggan?

Duggan. Craig Riley. Tyler Griffin. Colton Rogers. Jesus. Jordan K. Jordan Knapp, Ben Armstrong, Brittany Brightung, Brighton, Brighton, Britton, Brittung. That's a brutal last name.

That's what that is. Jennifer Lamb, Ellery Gomez. No, Eleni. Eleni? Eleni Gomez. Eleni Gomez. Eleni? Eleni?

What's that? How do you spell it? E-L-L-O-n-y eleni eleni eleni alone yeah that's fine i don't know natalie uh shit this one is ridiculous zeno zinovyec no zinoviev zinoviev i got it zinov That's absolutely it. That's a Russian name. I love when you're positive. I'm positive. I love when you're positive. It's never correct.

Patel Hwang. Hwang. H-W-A-N-G. Angela Ford. Patel Hwang? Patel. Is that an Indian and a Chinese name mixed together? I think so.

That's a very strange. Sir, please tell us. That's a man. Please tell us what the hell, how that works exactly. I'm not sure at all. Where'd you get that? Where'd you get the most Indian first name and the most Chinese last name? Help us out with that.

Kensworth Slater, he's up in Minnesota. That guy's fucking awesome. He drove all the way to Detroit to see us. Oh, that was cool. Thank you, dude. No, no, Chicago. That was it. He came to Chicago.

The first show. Right, right, right. Kelly Walsh, Chris England, Emily Downing, John Houlihan, Tiffany Goss. No, Gus. Goss. Tiffany Goss, Buddy Kucha, Strictly Homicide Podcast, Shelby Bessie, Normal, no, not Normal, what is that? Mommel? Oh, Mama Al Davis. Oh, yeah, that's right.

Mama Al Davis, that's who it is, Elizabeth. Brittany Duran, Denny Green. No, it's right. Mama Al Davis. That's who it is. Elizabeth. Brittany Duran. Denny Green. No, it's not the Denny Green. I don't think any professional third baseman or NFL head coaches are giving us money this week. Fingers crossed, though. Josephine Leffman. Thank you, Josephine. Tom Keough.

Fuck. Stuart Hellwell. Jack Galloway. Eric Clapholz. Clap-holes. Clap-holes? Clap-holes. That's true. That's the right one that's the one wicked counselor i don't know what that is i imagine that's to help people wean off of icp is that porn wicked wicked the wicked counselor i don't know i don't know what

that is warn wean you off porn i'm not sure i think that's what they'll do to counsel you off porn? I'm not sure. I think that's what they'll do, counsel you off porn. I hope so. Jessica Moncada, Rebecca Manners, Chris Hansen. No, Chris Henson. Ooh, that's close. God, him too? This is great. And the fucking,

this one is so hard to say, but I am Jimmy Wissman and I love Tom Brady donated. Whoever the fuck that is, you're an asshole. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. You fucking clever dick. You can make Jimmy say anything you want.

You can make me say a lot of horrible things, especially that. Michelle Gerber Anderson. Anna Kowalewski. That's for sure. No, Matthew Solomon. Last ones. Johan Eriksson. This is where it's going to get tricky because somebody really likes to fuck with me with Hildur.

Cigarana. Cigar. Cigarette. Shit. What was that? Cigar. Dar. Duder.

You got cigarette out of that? I don't know what I just did with that. Luis. Your brain recognized the first half of the word. Cigar. Cigar. Did an auto fill on that one? Cigar or Ditter.

Ditter. Fucking no way. They know what their name is. Tia Alswin. Thank you so much. Thank you. Congratulations on your new job. Catherine Burgess.

Thomas Gallagher. Brandy Dwyer. No, Dunker. Dunkle. Brandy Dunkle. Fuck, I'm an idiot. Ronald Pleven. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what i'm doing i don't know what i'm doing

michael deegan uh sydney cruz uh marianne mar or mayor uh melissa figueroa sarah keel or keel uh lindsey lack lack lackera lacara lacara lindsey lac johnny it's good no joe yaw uh riley mortensen no mon uh riley montblue that's what it is not mortensen no no that those aren't close either not even close no i don't know what i'm doing you're just making names up chris with no last name uh gun lauger gunny gunny porson that's for real okay that's what it says hey says. Hey, we'll take it. Gun Lauger, Gun Porsen. Cool. Jennifer Deidre. No,

Deidre. Deidre. That's for sure. Rachel Bridge, Andrew Birmingham, Susan, Susanna Platt, Armando Rodriguez,

CJW, Daryl Lerman, Megan Perry, and the last one is Kevin Talkington. How easy is that? That's not bad at all. You closed strong. I fucking knocked it out. You guys,

thank you so much for all your help. Thank you, everybody, so much. Barely got through it. Thank you, guys, honestly, for this week. You've been amazing. We really, really appreciate everything you guys do for us. You're killing it out there for us, really, guys. Thank you for being the foot soldiers of this thing. We can't do it without you. And we cannot wait, by the way,

to see everybody at live shows. We can't wait. We're going to meet every last damn one of you that wants to talk to us. If you're for some reason you want to hang out with us, we will do it. We'll see you and we can't wait. We love you guys so much. And Jimmy, what if a guy like you needed to be getting a hold of by a person like them? How might they do that?

You can find me at WispenSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Thank you guys so much for everything. The dog pictures are fucking hysterical. Yeah, we love those. Somebody sent me a picture of a boat that had the word Dolly on it, and it said no tug, which was hysterical. That's perfect here.

And I am at Jimmy P is funny. You can find me there, or just copy and paste my last name from the show description. Don't be crazy and try to spell it, because there's an I in there, and you will fail miserably. Do that, guys, and we will keep coming back every single week giving you more and more murder. Until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two

as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.