Small Town Murder - #66 - A Deadly Scam in Mooresville, Missouri

Episode Date: April 19, 2018

This week, in Mooresville, Missouri, where several people go missing, without anyone even noticing. Finally, a greedy crime leads to an investigation, and the discovery of five bodies, and a twisted back story, uncovering very unlikely killers. It's a crazy tale, in a tiny town!! Along the way, we find out how polite death threats used to be, how many drifters can go missing without anyone caring, and why a clay floor, under a lot of hay is the only place to store corpses!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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so much fun. Can't wait to see you. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week we look at the depressing town of Mooresville, Missouri where things, places, and especially murderers are never quite what they seem. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder yay oh yay indeed jimmy yay indeed i'm so

excited this week this is a crazy episode fantastic this is a twisted wild this is one where you're just like i don't know what just happened this is insanity how is this a story this isn't real and it is real and it's's crazy. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys, for everything this week. iTunes reviews have been huge. Thank you. If you have not done that yet, please get on iTunes.

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You have to feed their funky algorithm. That's life. You know, it's nothing we can do about it. So thank thank you for doing that and get on it if you have not done that right yet uh live shows this weekend well portland tomorrow if you're listening on thursday portland uh the 20th of april is sold out uh there's tickets on stub hub i saw that's pretty hilarious to us don't ask me now two years ago we couldn't get anybody to come for free to anything we did and now there's tickets with a bogo so this is pretty hilarious uh seattle uh is also uh first show is sold out second show still some tickets left for the late show so come out the

late show's fun anyway we're gonna get we're gonna get weird on the late show and have a crazy weird case i'll be shithouse uh do that you he will. You can get tickets to all of these things at shutupandgivememurder.com. That's the one. You can also find links there to donate if you want to do that, if you want to be one of our producers,

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Or you can make a one-time donation over at PayPal using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com uh now at this point we obviously have to do the disclaimer isn't it depressing every time but you know what we're gonna make it we have fun with it what are you gonna do this is a comedy podcast this is all the facts are real like i said this story sounds so crazy you think it's made up but it's not it's all real uh everything is real we don't make anything up for comedic effect or any you know garbage like that uh we do make jokes we're comedians uh usually at the expense of towns

or idiots or murderers or bumbling police forces or something like that's it that's what it is but uh we do go out of our way to make sure that we do not try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. We're assholes. But we're not scumbags. We're not scumbags. Right. Exactly. That's true.

It is what it is. So that's good. But if you're on board now, we're in the car. You're in the car with us. We're on the way to Robb Liquor Store. Are you in the car? Then you're in the car. Sorry.

And if one of us accidentally blows a little Korean lady's brains all over the Marlboros behind the counter. You're an accomplice. You're an accomplice at this point. no complaining no complaining you're in and don't snitch god damn it that's right god damn it keep that shit to yourself uh so without further ado yeah let's get to this let's go on a trip jimmy all right you ready to rock and roll oh my god i've been on we've been on the road so much i'm not even unpacking we're leaving it all it's all packed that's it just dirty clothes in there, onto the next city. Jimmy's smelling like Sacramento when he's in Seattle.

It's just going to happen like that. Great show in Sacramento, by the way. Smelling like tequila and Corona. Those bastards. What a great goddamn show. It was fantastic. They were fantastic. They were phenomenal.

Pushing booze on me. We cannot. Yes, they gave Jimmy lots of booze. That was great. That got ugly. But no, it was ugly in a funny way. We had a good good time uh we have good time these live shows are so much fun so please come out and check them out for the shows that have tickets are incredible at this point we have to head we have to head on a trip yeah let's go we're going all the way to missouri great exciting

right your favorite state right show me i know you've told me multiple times that uh your favorite state is missouri one of these days i'll retire there that well who sure whose dream is that not we're going to mooresville missouri great oh it's great all right you're you you the the joy you would get from going to mooresville yeah give me more this is a party town this is a town um i would say maybe uh it's the next big hot spring break town something like that uh no that's not true at all it's not missouri's lake havasu it is absolutely not missouri's lake anything it is if missouri if missouri had a compost heap out back of their out in back of their yard like behind a shed sure this would be the thing under the compost heap

not the actual compost there's value in that This is the soot in the garbage fire? Yeah, there's value in the actual compost, whereas here there's no value for anything. Mooresville, Missouri, it's in north central Missouri. It's almost four hours to St. Louis, so no help there if you need to escape. About an hour and 15 minutes to Kansas City. So it's in the middle of goddamn nowhere, I would say, without a doubt. It's in Livingston County, which is exciting as it gets. Zip code 64664, area code 660.

There's a shitload of sixes in there. A lot of sixes. That's dangerous. It's a tiny town. Very, very tiny. Miranda Barber should have moved here. I don't know what happened. She picked the tiny town. Okay. Very, very tiny. Miranda Barber should have moved here. All right. I don't know what happened.

She picked the wrong town. She got away with everything here. Yeah. This is her jam. This is her jam. It's a tiny town, 0.18 square miles from this town. So that's a small one. That's a, yeah.

That's a really tiny town. I've pissed bigger puddles than that, I think. 1.8 square, or 0.18 square miles. That's nothing. Yeah, that's a couple of blocks it seems like in a city uh town motto uh it's very again they know how to market this place they see it they they're like yeah this is we can we can get people to come here and we'll find out how many people they've got to come here very impressive amount okay here uh town motto quote

you ever actually watch grass grow it's not that bad so that's a pitch that's obviously mine right uh there is no town motto uh there's not enough people to to pitch in to pay a firm to come up with one and they don't have the wherewithal to just have a meeting and go shouldn't we have something to people should know something about us just from i don't know just say uh mooresville uh it's pretty nice we got more more in mooresville you can get more in mooresville there's so many more puns we could do is it more mooresville i think there's more in here there's more we could do something with the more uh we could uh but at 0.18 square miles we could use some more here in mooresville we're

better than dinty Moore. Even better. Barely. Dinty Moore. Oh, shit. That's where we're from. Oh, damn. I didn't know that's where Dinty Moore's from. All right.

Never mind. We don't want to bash the Dinty Moore Corporation at this moment in time. They're employing most of the town. So this is a town that does nothing but make Dinty Moore beef stew. Get to chopping up the carrots. By the way, quick crime and sports side note uh unbelievable there's a boxer who we said his name is grady brewer and we said he sounded like his nickname should be dinty more yeah beef stew and we said he sounded like a hobo that fights down

at the train yard for other hobos bindles right and so people went and changed this poor man's wikipedia page look his wikipedia page it's covered with dinty more references dinty more references and bindle references and train yards and hobos hilarious it's pretty funny so we love you guys you're absolutely insane thank you for being that insane uh but this town here uh this town doesn't even have a website nothing nothing it's got a county website livingston county does but it's it's from like the late 90s this thing it's clearly not like a modern website it's not even a go daddy no i feel like uh somebody some like 60 year old one of the whoever town assembly people or county assembly people who's like 63 years old did like a quick like a

saturday afternoon tutorial on how to like you know build websites not even using like square space or like something like that just some weird template that's like some government uh bureaucratic template is it a myspace template is that what it is it's kind of similar yeah you know black background with red writing it's real small you can't see it you're like jesus christ get your shit together dude pick pick better colors sorry if you're too young to remember myspace but it was terrible and we're happy it's dead we all had to program we all had to learn how to code. That's what it was. It was the stupidest thing ever.

It was like the beginning of coding. It was fucking terrible. It sucked, and somehow we all got sucked into it. I wasn't a big MySpace person. I did it. I did it a lot. I wasn't really into it. It was too embarrassing.

I had a photo bucket and all that shit. Oh, for Christ's sake. So history here. State ofouri came into statedom in 1821 yeah uh so that's it's they're they're you know not one of the originals but they're uh next year they're right in there yeah they're not yeah they weren't like a late round draft pick they came in later on they came in pretty early on here uh livingston county was formed in 1837 uh from parts of carroll county named the livingston county is named after the

honorable edward livingston so so honorable oh he's so honorable he's the 11th secretary of state of the united states under which president you might ask yes i would andrew jackson oh yeah oh it's andrew jackson you know it's so that's uh yes uh so so this town is super dangerous this this town is dangerous j. This town is dangerous. Jimmy's very excited. He's like, ah, my cabinet man here. Jimmy actually does not like Andrew Jackson. If you're a new listener, once in a while, Jimmy has a slip of the tongue.

Usually, some reason, racially, I don't know why. It's always accidental. I swear it's accidental. And it's never what he means, too. That's the other thing. That's what it is. He means something completely different and says something that sounds terrible, and that's an Andrew Jackson moment if you're new to this. Ridiculous.

It's hilarious. The people in this town, I love the website here. The county website's hilarious. I love the county websites always because they tell you the history they want you to know always. It's not like real history. It's not like a story and saying this town was famous for its you know black people lynching if you wanted to lynch a black person this was the town you took them to they'd take you right in they had the hanging tree right there ready to go like that they'd never tell you that in a town in a town way in a county website they tell you like good things and even if it's bad they try to wrap it in a sure like a good way like on their county website here it says the early settlers had in common to

a large degree certain desirable characteristics certain which ones do you think they are i'm gonna go with white first christian yeah well they say their faith they had their faith in god to see them through and to provide for their needs and faith in themselves to deal with any circumstances that sounds like horseshit that sounds like they could sit on a couch and shit just was provided for them that sounds like it was a terrible place to live somehow people got by even though most of their kids died before they were three they still made it through and they credit god with the rest of their kids dying a Terrible thing to credit to. It's very strange here. They said, had they been otherwise, it says here, this, I love this too. They had the courage to leave familiar surroundings and loved ones ability to make a living from the land.

They were good neighbors, honest, straightforward, and men of their word. Had they been otherwise, they would not have been welcome in the community. They're really trying to build themselves up as some kind of weird hard working white people hard scrabble hard working white yeah it's it's it's a really weird uh have they been anything other than white they wouldn't have been welcoming this to no they had to be they said faith in god and all that for white faith in god they there's there's a hard work and you know we don't want them lazy ones wink wink wink wink see me wanking oh wait no it's 1822 we don't have to wink just spouting racial lazy shit so uh yeah they uh these people came there and it was it's basically

like this place is hard but you should be proud if you can make it here you don't have to you can just go somewhere else that's better. That's why I don't get why people do that. Being proud of where they're from? Not being proud of where they're from, but they're like, people go somewhere shitty. It's terrible, but we can make do. Why? Just go somewhere better.

There's lots of places better. It's hard scrabble here. It's tough to get by. It's not tough everywhere. Go somewhere else. We got three wagon wheels, so this is our spot i don't mean now it's harder now but back then they threw shit in a wagon and they went you went there you went to missouri to begin with you have a wagon packed clearly go this place is a shithole and keep going did you ever play the organ trail did

you stop in missouri this is good enough no you went to the goddamn ocean you keep going to where the gold is get out there you lazy fuck see they should have never been allowed there to begin with uh so uh uh mooresville they platted it out which is a stupid term for this is making streets platted means you planned a town and put streets down and shit like said hey we're gonna make a map and this is where shit goes and plots of land and things uh wb more did that the guy who planted it out there were like yeah fuck it just name it for him that's our guy that's our guy at least they didn't name it after a bewigged douchebag from uh times past that no one in this town has ever met before verizon there's not a jackson reference in it no there isn't which is odd but there's jackson

already probably down in alabama or mississippi there's a lot of jacksons especially in the south so uh and everywhere really there's one in michigan there's one everywhere because we have a town we have a case there at some point that i there's like 300 cases but that's that's one that i picked out where i was like oh yeah jackson so you live there there's a case there where somebody killed somebody i don't know i'll figure it out anyway a post office uh was put there once there's a post office then you got a business. Then you're in business. You can mail shit. Turn the lights on.

Turn them on, baby. 1860, they put the post office in. They must have platted that right in there. You got to have the post office. Village was incorporated in 1874 and hasn't gotten any better since, pretty much. It's a dump here. The Civil War was an interesting time around these parts missouri was a weird place for because they were kind of uh in between were they on the fence they

were yes so they were on the fence here but the people weren't really on the fence uh the government it's a long story we'll talk about it briefly and uh get through it here uh lincoln was calling for people obviously for the war at this. Most of the people in this county were secessionists. So they're obviously Southern supporters. So there's a few. There's also some union people there, but they were outnumbered greatly by the Southern supporters. And it's pretty funny because they, well, it's not really funny, but the Southern people, the Southern supporters were basically trying to muscle the unionists out of the town. Oh, yeah.

They have from a newspaper. This is dated May 6th, 1861. Yeah. And this is the closest they have to like Tupac telling you he's going to fuck you up in a rap. Like this is as close as they had in 1861. This is 1861 battle rap? This was like some hardcore, fuck you. you up in a wrap like this is as close as they had in 1861 this is 1861 battle rap this was

this was like some hardcore okay fuck you you're you're on what i'm putting you on notice right here this is a death threat uh quote sir first of all first of all any good way threat that starts with sir yeah that's that's i i find that amusing right away uh you and your friends that voted for lincoln better go where you belong and take your property and stay there. If you know when you are well, better take refuge in Abraham's bosom. We are the boys that are for Southern rights. Oh, my God.

So that means if you don't leave, I'm going to fucking kill you. And you're probably your whole family. I'm going to burn your house down and kill your dog. Also, everything short of N word lover. That's pretty much what they said. That's the most polite death threat ever. That was pretty brutal. You never hear anyone say you best take refuge in this person's bosom when they're threatening

you or else I'll kill you. That's the weirdest way of saying go with them. Take refuge in their bosom. Is that like go hug him? Is that what that is? I think that's if you if he's you better go somewhere where he can protect where he will care for you yeah i'll better get to new york city where he can protect you so i think it's one of those get up there to illinois yeah exactly boy

so the uh missouri state government was deciding whether to remain neutral or independent or secede or what the fuck they were trying to do they were trying to figure it out uh livingston county citizens at this point from a newspaper from back then said that they were uh that they quote began getting their shotguns in order okay so they were literally going to start shooting people in the streets over this issue tighten up the screws on those things yeah this whole thing is getting out of control obviously and it had we had a fucking civil war so it got really out of control yeah it got real ugly for a minute it got real out of control for a few years let's just say like there was a shitload of people dead so it's a long one years i think that's still the most americans ever killed in the war obviously it's both sides of the war but i think that's

still true yes no maybe maybe vietnam got more no vietnam had less vietnam had like 55 000 we killed jesus christ i think we lost more than that in Normandy, for Christ's sake, in World War II. We lost a fuckload in World War II. Okay. In World War I, we lost a lot, too. Yeah. The Russians in World War II lost like 50 million people. Yeah.

They didn't fuck around. They were shoveling people. Fuck yeah. Like it was a fire. A death machine. Just throw them in. Horrible. Horrible shit that says nothing to do with what we're talking about.

But moving on. Residents of this town. Notable people. Pretty much a bunch of people that look like andrew jackson and livingston it's just a bunch of old uh white people that were like uh you know councilmen and assembly members for the county and silver hair people with like horrible hairlines yeah they somehow had like hairdos they look like pudgy old ladies yeah they look stylish good point like you know those like like uh society old ladies who are like you know they've been widowed for 20 years and they're like out they do like a lot of art gallery openings and they have like funky hair and they wear weird

jewelry and shit but they're like wealthy and that's what i feel like bushy behind the ears that's a weird look that's what they look like very strange look they were considered the like why do you grow that that's don't grow that i have no idea what bushy behind the ears is never a good look it really isn't for anybody i gotta agree whether you've got long hair up top or you've got a terrible hairline like these old men had just bushy behind the ears fucking stop it well yeah work don't do that no but well they don't they haven't done it in 200 years. So, all right. Thank you for listening. I guess we can't rail at something that we've long... That doesn't happen anymore. We've long ceased doing that practice.

So it's like they're whaling. Can you believe that? Can you believe... They're clubbing the seals. Off the coast of Maine. No, they're not. They're not. That's not happening anymore.

Japan, they still do. Never mind. Moving on. So now we've really... We want to talk about japan clearly we brought in world war ii talking about whaling we got a lot of japan on our mind other resident of this town uh shirley collie nelson okay who was born in 1931 she's born as shirley angelina simpson uh she's a uh country music singer i love how they describe her country

music singer rockabilly singer yodeler guitarist and songwriter i was on board right up until yodeler yeah well i think back then any kind of like any of the hillbilly arts had to include yodeling so weird you know like dolly parton used to yodel did she yeah i had no idea you ever seen rhinestone yeah i guess she fucking yodels her ass off in that movie and she won't apologize for that piece of shit no she won't well you know what she's so proud she shouldn't fucking apologize sylvester stallone should apologize especially to dolly who had to put up with his fucking stupid marble mouthed ass for that long and he had she had after he sang his songs terribly she had to go that was good darling great job great job and

then she went home and cut herself where you couldn't see it or she just went and got more tattoos where they couldn't well you can't see them cover my titties i can't take it no more have you heard stallone's flowers i hope she did that i really hope she did that you'll never find out i bet so uh this woman here is a she was kind of famous on her own as an act but also from 63 1963 to 1971 she was the second wife of willie nelson oh so she got very famous from that that's why she's shirley collie nelson got it willie nelson here this town historically uh it's it's uh it was peaked in population in 1910 so anytime a town peaks in 1910 in population and

then just withers away over the next century not positive that's a bad sign that's if it's a net if it's like a 10-year period period where you have a net loss of people that's one thing but for a hundred years when people consistently say fuck this place right you it's not a good town and you're peaking 30 years after establishment pretty much and it's starting to already dwindle it's not a positive thing and it peaked right before cars became prominent so people could leave more easily because like 1920 that's kind of right 19 mid-1910s regular people started getting cars and get the fuck out of there because we see that a lot in towns that's kind of the breaking point whether it's you know people are staying there because they want to or because they were stuck there and uh this the car thing they're like oh see ya yeah i mean we're out of here from 1920 to 1930 they went from 193 people to 137 people

so that's people got cars and they were like we're all packed cars gassed up we don't have to stay in this shithole see it's like 20 of the population just it is and so if you're from here we're sorry we keep bashing it i don't know how you should leave i'm sorry the odds that anyone's listening who are from here who are from here are very slim because the population of this town is 88 people wow 88 how is that even a town it's barely a town that's crazy it's down 12 since 1990 where they had a cool 100 it was all even even 100 and uh yeah so it's basically if you look at it this way, it's basically the population of the Duggar family is this town.

It's just 88 white people, which is the whole Duggar family. That's like a small enough amount to have like hash marks on the population side. Oh, yeah. On the sign. And like chalk. And then every time somebody dies or- An old man in overalls. He just walks out there and licks his thumb and scratches one off.

One of those red plaid, flappy eared hats comes out and just licks and goes, all right now. Gets a step stool, slowly climbs up. Josephine died. She died and then her kids took her belongings and left as fast as they could. They were just waiting on that.

They financed a car with all her shit. So let me write down scratch and a slash. All set. 88. with all her shit. So let me write down a scratch and a slash. There we go. All set. 88. All right. Perfect.

So there's, by the way, and I said this before, but I do believe we should be able to legally hunt the Duggars. I think that's a thing that we should do. There's too fucking many of them. They're like deer. There's too many of them. They're going to spread disease among themselves. Not just willy nilly in the streets like psychopaths. i think there should be dugger permits and you should be able

to hunt them when's dugger season when's dugger season exactly i think that'd be a good thing probably around halloween pick off the young sick ones i think so yeah we should get the old ones first because they're the ones reproducing i don't know the thing anybody reproductive age we should take them out first and then we can retrain the younger ones not to have 45 fucking children jesus christ so uh median age in this town is 41.4 which is about four years older than the average because uh this is a place where you die not a place where you live uh this is is a terrible place to put it but a terrible way to put it but this isn't a place where like you graduate college and then you're like all right gonna start a life a start a life in this little town of Mooresville that I heard about. 88 people.

With 88 people, going to find me somebody to settle down with, get a nice house. That doesn't really happen. The female male population is way out of whack. It's about 61% female. But these small towns, it's such a... Everything's fucked. Yeah, it's all fucked. It's not a big enough sample size to even make whatever. can tell how many people it is almost exactly there's only 31 households

in the whole town so that tells you a lot right there it's just so weird 31 households that's so weird 22 family households whatever that means the widowed rate here is 19 and it's normally about six percent so these are old people that are waiting to die. Got it. Basically. Race of this town, shockingly, 100% white. It is the Duggar family. It's the only time that's ever happened on this show so far. It's 100.

100. 100% white. Nothing else. Nothing else. So that'll give you a hint right there. Normally, it's about 63% white in the country. It is 100% white here. Excessively white i would say if that's even a thing it's cotton balls it's it's pretty it's pretty impressive it's a duggar

family portrait for sure uh religion in this town it's about 73 religious which i'm small town of missouri sure why not uh uh success about seven percent catholic 2.62 lds oh so there's like three people yeah who are lds is a family of three but don't worry there'll be more you bet oh they're coming they're gonna find more there's gonna be a shit they're gonna make more a and then they're gonna recruit more too so there's gonna be it's gonna be when they send somewhere that's hopeless they're gonna they go right to it they're gonna go to it and they they're gonna say we're gonna get that's where you get people this town is the most depressing place ever.

We can swing at least 88 people. I think we can do this. It's perfect here. 0.0% Jewish. Obviously, that's not happening. Fuck this. No, thank you. 0.0% Muslim, too.

I don't know where you go to mosque in a place like this. 31% Democrat, about 67% Republican. small town of missouri i'm not surprised by that obviously that seems about right unemployment rate is only four percent uh which is about five people yeah uh which it's so easy yeah there shouldn't be any in that you can get together with 88 people and say bill frank bob and jim are all fucking unemployed they're fucking up we need to fix this they've They've got friends. Somebody hire them. Who can hire him out of all the...

We can get our unemployment rate to zero. You know how fucking cool that would look? No other town's got it. How cool that would look? We could be the first ones with 100% white and 0% unemployed. Either that and 0%. Either that or they're either doing that or they're completely fucked up and they can just go the other way and say, Bill, Bob, Frank and Jim are lazy fucks. Right.

Get them out of our town. There you go. And then they're like, well, we can't, though. We need the numbers. So we got to put us down to 84. We got to fix them. Basically, we got to fix them. They're like a team that made a bad first draft pick.

And they're like, well, we can't do it. We're going to lose them. He's got the contract. We got to pay him anyway. We have to work with him. We told everybody we loved him. We have to work with him we told everybody we loved him we have to work with him there's no other option here it's fucking terrible uh so uh the uh income here uh is a household income median is 43 125 which is pretty good it's about 10 000 less than the average okay uh the jobs here are mainly in the health care uh either retail, trade, or health care seem

to be a lot of the jobs. So when the old people die, then what happens? When there's no one to care for, then everyone leaves, and then you get less than 80 people. Cost of living, overall, 100 is par average, we say. Housing here, everything's about normal. The overall is 79 out of 100 sure but housing is the low one housing is 24 24 that is so low that's the lowest we've had that's insane my goodness this isn't this is a fucking landmark episode it's a landmark everyone join us everybody everybody's white and

fucking very little unemployment for a very special episode and For a very special episode. And almost three homes. Very special episode. It's an episode where Alex Keaton's friend dies and he has a retrospective. Or Alice finally got married and everybody's got to clean up this house on their own. Ooh, yeah. So median home cost here is $45,100, which is insanely cheap. $185,000 is the average. So that is nuts. 100 that's you can't get an suv for fucking 45 100 foundation these people have this is houses i'm sure they're shit houses and

we'll find out what kind of houses they are in a second here you 38 of the houses are less than 20 000 in this town think about that that's amazing about thirty percent of the houses are between forty and sixty thousand dollars like it's insane there's basically no house is worth over a hundred thousand in this town which is nuts in terms of that yeah and if we've convinced you that the only place to be you see this as you know what you don't see it as a as a piece of shit you see it as an unripe banana that's gonna that's just gonna it's good it's a fine wine it's a little green it's a little green but it's gonna it's gonna turn into something delicious either it's a fine wine that's

only going to keep paying off more in the future we have for you thebedroom apartment on the average which i if there is any two-bedroom apartments this is like bob's place costs this much it's uh six hundred and thirty dollars uh there actually is no real estate available in this town nothing there's only a few households as we saw so there's nothing available in this town but i do have some stuff in very very close by towns that are just just as big as shitholes yeah so let's look into this i found a four bedroom one bath which is that's not a lot of baths for a bedroom uh uh 2,244 square foot house which is a pretty big house in carrollton nearby for 23,900 which is batshit cheap so cheap that's crazy you could cram so many people be in that house and you're all shitting in the same place horrible at least it's not a bucket

we have a three bedroom two bath 1216 square foot house in chitha coat chitha chillicothe chillicothe chillicothe uh 119 900 it's not terrible it It's not great. Things to do. Jesus Christ. This town. I mean, we'll get into it. It's very strange. It's one of those things where I'm like, I don't even know how to describe why this is like this. The things to do section, big on the

self-defense and rape aggression defense for women course. Perfect. Ages 12 and up. America needs it. which is fantastic they should they should call mandy maloon in to teach these broads how to kick some ass that's right i don't mean to call you broads but that was a joke obviously but get mandy in there to teach him this is how you kick somebody on the side of the fucking head shout out to mandy maloon there she's terrific uh it says here that the livingston county sheriff's office has again

partnered with power up to provide a very important class geared toward all women ages 12 and older. Okay. So you're telling 12-year-olds, people want to rape you. Right. Which I guess is good for them to learn to defend yourself, but how's that psychologically? Even though it's true and you should. I don't know, man. Breaking a lot of news to a 12-year-old, though.

That seems like a lot. And then the other thing to do, this is what I mean, this town is fucked up, is the teen dating violence awareness and protection. Oh my God. How much rape goes on in this town? Truly. Good Lord. There's 88 people.

Watch your blood hole, girls. Stop raping. Whoever's raping, point them out, tell them to stop and kick them out of town. Put them in a goddamn, what are we doing? How many fucking, what what is going what is happening in this town you think it'd be easier to round up the rapists rather than tell teach everybody that there's rapists i would say so i would just stop them from raping and you don't got to worry about your girl getting raped jesus christ this is nuts nobody rape yeah that's it give bill a job and

stop raping that's what we need to do here those four unemployed fucks on the fucking assembly they're the ones raping i have a feeling i just know it they're the only ones with time they have time to rape that's what i mean they're home they're ready uh it's also they uh they stopped make they stopped giving the inmates soap and they make them make their own soap and detergent now they use the following which is a picture of the homemade laundry soap which is all sorts of weird household cleaning products that you mix together and you make jail laundry so am i on board with this i don't even know so it costs it saves the taxpayers about a thousand dollars a year in soap um it's not as harsh also and the uh apparently it's more environmentally friendly okay you're trying to say this is a good thing sure i don't

know what the fuck i don't know you're doing it so it gives a shit guys aren't complaining about it they're not saying oh my god i'm i'm itchy so i guess it's fine i don't fucking know stop stabbing each other if it makes them stab each other either equally or less i guess who cares after that uh crime rate in this town somebody saw fight club and like i know some dudes that fight shit make them make soap too make it make soap uh yeah somebody was like soap, soap, that's it. That's going to save the money. That's going to stop it. Property crime rate in this town is average, exactly average, which is weird because in

a small town, two extra crimes, it could have been sky high. It changes everything. And violent crime in this town, besides all the teen rape, apparently, is exactly average also. Wow. So murder, rape, robbery, assault, we have even average par. Yet we have classes. Apparently so.

It seems dangerous from what I've read, from the things I've read. Let's talk about some people in this town, shall we? Let's get to this. Let's talk about a couple of elderly farmers. Okay. These are a couple of elderly farmers. They live in this town ray and fay copeland gotcha they're a married couple ray and fay may as well get together for names rhyme

names rhyme perfect we both we someday felt that we both needed wanted to be elderly farmers i feel like and we knew that as a goal we had i wanted to we wanted to be those people with the pitchfork right that's what we wanted that's the that's the one so uh they as they get older they're in mooresville yeah um they need help all their kids have grown up and moved out of the house they have children we'll get to that fuck out of town so they need people to help they have a farm yeah uh it's a small farm but they need people to help out on it's a raise in his 70s he's having a hard time can't make kids anymore that's tough yeah if you don't have young strong people it's hard to work a whole farm on your own if you're elderly people kids you make at that age ain't helping with shit especially fay as we'll talk about as another

job she has to work out like a regular job so it's it's tough going it's hard scrabble uh so ray would go to shelters homeless shelters missions in nearby towns. Anywhere where vagrants gather, he'll go and hire them for farm work. He may need to take that class they have. Those are kind of your number one guys that do some rape and ray. I would say, especially if you're an elderly farmer, come out to this remote area with me and I'm going to give you some farm equipment that's sharp on the edges. I have money and food and weapons. Sharp on the edges food and weapons sharp on me you could kill me no one would you live on my farm for a month before

anybody would notice i keep to myself uh people are used to seeing no kids anymore used to seeing vagrants walking around the property so that ain't gonna raise no alarm bells so uh come on in and i'll pay you fifty dollars a day for the for the privilege ray is brave so uh ray is hiring uh homeless but they're not even homeless they're they're drifters these people they're not it's $50 a day for the privilege. Ray is brave. So Ray is hiring homeless. They're not even homeless. They're drifters, these people. It's not like they live around the town and they're homeless people. They blow through town.

They stay in these missions for a little bit. They stay in these shelters for a little bit, and they move to the next town. Got it. Most of these guys have extensive criminal records. It doesn't mean you have a record just because you're a vagrant, just because you're a wandering hobo. But it sure ups the chances. It ups the chances of it, yeah. If you're a drifter wandering from town to town, chances are you weren't like an adventurer in the late 60s just taking Route 66 across the country.

Generally don't have a doctorate. No, most of the time that's not it. Most of the time you're running from place to place because you're wanted for petty theft or like feeling up a pastor's daughter or something in the next town over. You know what I mean? You blew into the last town on the fumes, your van fumes on gas, and you just had nothing else to do. And there you are.

You sold your van because you couldn't put gas in it. That's it. That's what I mean. You ran out. You sputtered out. Some guy paid you $200 for the van, and that's got you for the last five towns right but uh the bindle's running low if you know what i mean you're gonna have to call grady dinty more brewer to come in and see if he'll throw down a bindle fight with you he got two

pieces of beef jerky left that's all your protein two pieces that. That's all you're going to get. So one man they meet in 1986 is Dennis Murphy. Dennis Murphy, he's had his issues in the past. He's had a record of petty theft and vagrancy and that sort of thing here. But Ray, not only would they give him $50 a day, but he'd also provide them with a room. He'd provide them with a place to stay and meals and everything else. So you go to work on his farm. It's like an old-time arrangement. You work all day.

Supper's on the table for you when you're done. You have a room there, and he gives you $50. Great deal. Not a bad deal if you're drifting from town to town. Because a lot of times what would happen is they'd stay for a couple weeks, and then they'd blow out of town because they got a couple bucks in their pocket,

and then they go to the next town because that's what these guys do they're not looking to put down roots and be a farmer in mooresville right so they just make a few bucks and they leave so this keeps happening uh and a lot of times it'll happen too and this will come up as these these guys will end up committing some sort of small crime in town or some sort of something stealing or something and then they'll come to the farm and go hey do you know this vagrant guy and i'll be like that people blew out of town a week ago haven't seen him you know i don't know these guys do that all the time the cops go all right then see you later right like that happens a lot and that'll come up it's kind of a big issue in this whole story here

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TrueCar.com. And now back to the show. states truecar.com and now back to the show so uh he's he's paying them 50 room and board uh and these guys a lot of them like they don't have a house so they're happy to do this for a couple weeks it steadies them for a minute here uh so daniel murphy or i'm sorry dennis murphy why i say daniel murphy it sounds more irish i didn't read it it's murphy and it's very irish and i feel like daniel's a more irish name so i made him uh more so irish dennis murphy here i made him a shit boxer from like a terrible uh boxer from the 80s when they were still trying to get white heavyweights to fight it's irish dennis murphy he's our one hope so he's like the movie with that great white hype exactly great movie it's so fucking great

movie but it's entertaining absolutely i've seen it 30 times and i'd watch it if it was on but it's not a great movie that guy it's a terrible movie i forget the guy's name the guy that played the great white hype oh jesus peter uh i forget his name that is peter you're right peter uh he's he's really he's a smart guy too he's a director yeah he's a really uh directed battle really talented guy and i'm losing i can't remember right now uh shit as if you if you believe whitney cummings he's a terrible terrible human being oh well i don't know let's that's her ex-husband or ex-fiance whatever they they had a big falling out i would say i'm gonna i'm gonna save my save your own i'm gonna save my opinions there uh well i'll save my comedic opinions here i'll share my opinions on podcast companies and airlines and people that could actually hurt me right but these this i feel

like that are insignificant we'll fucking inside knowledge things i feel like we shouldn't okay so anyway all right so uh murphy gets offered a place to stay here. So he's there for a little bit, Murphy. And then out of nowhere, the sheriff's deputy follows up on some reports of fraud based on Murphy. So there's several instances of fraud. So the sheriff's deputy visits the Copeland farm, and he hears basically, well, if you're looking for a vagrant, he's going to be at the Copeland farm. He's either at the mission or the Copeland's house. They're the ones who take in all the vagrants.

So the sheriffs go there. He asked Copeland, do you know where he is? Copeland said he took he took off one day. Haven't heard from him since. Happens all the time. So this was just a par for the course. Now, Copeland tell is told by the by the officer that Murphy's a thief. He defrauded people.

He's a thief. He stole things. Copeland said he wasn't surprised. Ray said he'd been swindled, too. He said that Copeland had a check from Murphy that bounced due to insufficient funds. I guess he had lent this murphy some money in the beginning he laid out gave him a little more than 50 bucks and then yeah he was supposed to pay him back before he left and he did and it bounced and then he took off out of town

got it so ray's telling the cop this now apparently this is a weird thing that in this town that this is not this is very common there's apparently lately been a bunch of cattle auction scams going on by these drifter guys that come through this this is uh 1824 no that's what i mean this is the 80s this is happening stupid this is 1987 this is this town i don't know if it's this town but this whole story could have taken place in 1825 like it could have taken place you know25. Like, it could have taken place. This is a pre-Civil War story that somehow took place in the 1980s. Hilarious. It's the weirdest.

Everybody in it. There's drifters and vagrants and hobos. There's no drifters and vagrants and hobos. Judas Priest is on the radio, and there's cattle thievery going on. Oh, my God. White Snake is crushing it right now. It's ridiculous. Rats playing around and around, and there's cattle being stolen.

RunDMC is like rocking shit right now. You know what I'm saying? Like public enemies ramping up, and NWA and all this is happening, and they're like, we got cattle auction scams by vagrants and hobos that come in on the rail cars. Unbelievable. What the fuck is happening in this town, man? This is ridiculous in this town man this is ridiculous this place so uh they're trying to uh they're trying to figure out if ray knows where any of these guys are so like any of these and some of the guys he said oh yeah a few of these

guys came through they all took off on me you know after a couple weeks they were gone i don't know nothing about it they scam sure you know he's they stole faye's brooch and you know shit like that i don't know and the cops are like oh damn it you know but you be careful ray stop taking in them them vagrants now like they tell him you better be careful about who you hire like people tell him that the cops would tell him that and he's a ray doesn't listen to people's shit no ray is an old he's an old hard scrabble farmer and he's not listening to shit got it he's one of those guys where no he's just contrary i feel like you know those contrary guys that just sit no matter fucking people no matter And he's not listening to shit. Got it. He's one of those guys where he's just contrary. I feel like, you know, those contrary guys that just sit no matter fucking people, no matter what it is, he's going to go the other way.

It's so annoying. Yeah, it is like fucking hate the president, whoever the president would be at the time if he liked the president or even if he didn't like the president, if the president, I don't know, killed a baby in the streets, you know, on purpose. And everybody was like, why did you kill that baby? Campaign rally rally picked it up to hold it and kiss it and just changed his mind held it by the ankles and spiked it into the fucking street and everybody was like oh my god we got to get rid of him that's need to be like i kind of like him that's he's that guy who knows that baby could have had a cold that baby could have been the devil right he maybe he knows the

antichrist when he sees it you ever think of that everything just just to be contrary maybe he's a time traveler and it was baby hitler i did you know i just set up the possibly the worst scenario that ever a man just out of nowhere smiling oh your baby's gorgeous just holds it by the feet what the fuck is wrong with me grabs it by the ankles windmill swings it that's exactly what i was describing that's exactly what i was amazing that is sad and horrible and didn't happen and also also completely never happened once it's fine that we're aware of in my fucked up mind i'm sure it's happened at some point but not that we're not that we're talking not in this story right uh so uh these men the cops are having a hard time you know tracking these guys down yeah basically these cattle auction houses through the 80s and this will

get really crazy this story it's not all about cattle auction houses i promise but you need to know about cattle auction houses for murders to make sense later don't fucking ask it all comes together yeah trust us by now if you haven't seen those by the way it comes together uh google the fucking auctioneer that raps and it's fucking incredible that's yeah he doesn't do it on purpose somebody edits it to make it a rap it's a bunch of cowboys sitting around staring at cows like they're women it's really weird look at her i don't know about the oh i like a thicker thigh i I got to be honest with you. That's one too many teats. That ain't healthy. People slow tugging on the side.

My kind of dudes. Moo indeed. Moo indeed. Moo moo buckaroo. That's right. So this is apparently a common swindle in the 80s in the state of Missouri is buyers would show up. They'd purchase cattle by check because no one's gonna not a lot of people are gonna have that much cash on them cattle are expensive

they purchase cattle by check and then these people just disappear got it and then the checks would inevitably at the end they bounce but by then the cattle's long gone by then the guy's gone he sold those cattle to another party collected the cash for him and he's three towns over so that's it's a classic kind of old-timey scam that people would do yeah like the i picture them getting away on like a you know a heart horse-drawn carriage like fast like go on now move it move it and there's like bottles of elixir falling out the end of the carriage and shit they're screaming yeehaw yeehaw move it come on now so uh cattle auction houses began to keep track of buyers

obviously they put up like don't fucking take a check from this asshole right at 7-eleven uh who weren't good for their money and then they would also they started actually sharing them among each other so you couldn't go from one house to the next and scam they'd be like hey if fucking you know this asshole comes in he ain't good for shit don't take a check from him it's smart it took them years of being scammed for countless amounts of cattle i'm surprised i don't know how anybody how that economy didn't collapse on that whole thing but they probably because you don't want somebody else's competition around you're like i hope that motherfucker keeps getting scammed and they aren't helping each other that's possible until they realize oh my god the same guy scamming us is scamming them too yeah it's all

getting fucked by the same people let's all stick together a bunch of people are getting wow that's so weird bunch of people are getting pilfered cattle yeah farmers are the same same people yeah so if you if one auction house blacklisted you they'd all blacklist you so that was it you were out once you're out you're fucking out yeah uh so uh uh ray copeland our farmer here he quickly made it onto these blacklists also. He had some problems with these cattle houses. Hard scrabble farming, man. Things are tough. He built up a bad reputation, caused a lot of problems.

His whole livelihood was raising and selling cattle, and he couldn't raise or sell cattle. Nothing. Because he wasn't allowed to buy any cattle. So he had a problem with this. All he had to do, he could only pay in cash. uh so he had a problem with this all he had to do he could only pay in cash so what ended up happening is as you're going to see where these two stories of hobos buying cattle and ray come together collide uh ray figured he couldn't do it himself so uh he couldn't move to another area where he could easily scam people who don't know him was that a cow pun that was a cow pun you know

what i'm doing here uh you motherfucker man what the fuck he came he came up with a new plan and that was to uh that was to get uh these vagrants yeah to uh buy the cattle for him sure and then when they leave he goes i don't know anything about them they scam me too and the guy cops goes oh bastards meanwhile ray is taking the money he's just having these guys he's paying these guys to show up and buy cattle with their shitty checks sure so once they get blacklisted they don't care they're not cattle dealers they don't give a shit they go to the next town uh it doesn't matter and it confused a lot of people they got away with it for a long time uh a sheriff here

from the town said quote it was so odd that so many of them would have checks but when we went to go look for them we couldn't find them we'd enter them in the computer and they would come up as a closed account weird so so weird i wonder that's a maybe it's weird too because they said well like he needed he needed money for cattle he needed money for things and uh so yeah he would have the first scam he ran is he was he would have the drifters sign his name as if he they were him but they do it in their own handwriting and then when he was approached he'd go that person i didn't write that that person impersonated me stole my check stole my check stole my cattle but you know he took the cattle and they go oh no and then not my handwriting victim but he's a victim exactly he's a scam victim that's when they're

like stop taking these guys in they're scamming you ray you know whatever uh his wife fay said quote i begged ray time and time again to please stay out of trouble we had our home and everything paid for we were on social security so why would he turn around and mess all that up just like he has yeah so he she was upset about this whole thing um fay's trying to stay on the straight and narrow she's trying to not have her husband be arrested as he is yeah for this cattle scam coming up here uh the thing is too about this you'd think well who the hell's gonna let some fucking vagrant guy come in with buy a shitload of cattle checks but they come in and a guy with a check doesn't look like a vagrant right he comes in say bray put a clean clean set of clothes on him he just looks

like a farmer also a cattle a cattle guy it smells the same they're not gonna i mean they're not gonna come in in a three-piece suit anyway and you go i don't know his shoes aren't polished i think he's full of shit he's gonna come in piss he should smell like there's gonna be shit on his clothes and shoes at some point for sure everyone in there has shit on them so when everyone's got shit on them if you have a checkbook you can tell the guy with the checkbooks the one who's not a vagrant at that point you know otherwise how else do you know uh so uh so eventually though this they catch up to copeland they figure out that it's him after they end up uh uh catching a man getting a little they investigate they catch somebody here uh they figured out that uh all the buyers were repeat customers and uh they they did a little investigation

actually actually some half decent police work uh but yeah ray would deny it and just say i don't know that's they're scamming me too and after a while though they got it's like how come everyone you bring into your home has the same idea for a scam to scam you they're like what if i bought cattle with ray's signature that's not something that just random people across the spectrum come up with on their own in a vacuum like that i don't think i'd ever come up with that idea who the fuck would even if i stayed on his property no that's what i mean who would and you might but then with the next guy and the next guy and the next guy all come up with the same cattle stealing the only way that would be possible is if somebody gave them that idea

exactly uh so anyway they ended up catching a drifter named gerald perkins uh catch caught working this scam. So now you understand it a little more. He needs help on the farm, but he also needs help in some criminal things. So now he's tying himself up with people who are from questionable backgrounds and questionable histories anyway, and he's entering into criminal conspiracies with them also. Sounds dangerous, this whole thing, for an old farmer, right? So police at this point, they catch a guy named Gerald Perkins, one of his minions,

in the scam, and he gives Ray up in a minute. Says, Ray, put me up to it. Gerald doesn't have tight lips. Yeah, what the hell's Gerald got to lose on us? He's like, I'm not going down for your fucking cattle. Whatever. He would pay the guys, he'd give them $50, and then he'd sell the cattle and make a bunch of money. So they weren't going to protect him it's not like oh

it wasn't like they were in the mob and it was like you know the 50s in the mob that's all right i'm gonna go to the can but they're gonna take good care of my fuck hey listen sweetheart you the kids everything's taken care of fucking vinnie's gonna come by every week with an envelope you take that don't ask no questions just Just take the envelope. Take the money. Pay for what you need. Save the rest. No, that's not happening. This isn't De Niro and Heat.

No, this isn't that. This is a drifter going. Telling Val Kilmer, don't tell yourself to nothing. You can't leave in 30 seconds flat. Yeah, this is a guy. That's not what's going on. This is a guy who's already long spent that $50 on moonshine, and it's over with, and he's got no loyalty to to ray at all uh so

police were suspecting ray anyway like i said with all the people happened to be people he brought in but uh now they had gerald gerald perkins would testify against him and everything else uh so they arrest ray and he spends the next two years in jail so now he's an old farmer in jail which sounds terrible his wife is left at home f Faye is left with the farm there. So after he gets out of jail, he spends two years in jail. He gets out and he says, all right, well, I got to fix this shit. Not I got to stop and get it together and figure out a way to make money legitimately. He says, I need to fine tune my scam a little bit here.

My scam, it was a little loose. That was my bad. That scam not working, my bad there i mean it worked but i got caught so that's it worked my fault one little small spot about people singing about actually going to jail in the end yeah so that part didn't quite work this time he got a little smarter with it in a way to kind of separate himself because before automatically i mean if he ran that scam twice in like three years of a guy signing his name, you could say, Jesus Christ, I don't know, these fucking bastards. But when you do it constantly and it's always your name, you kind of look suspicious at that point.

And worse. Why only you are getting cattle scammed. And worseover, now you've been caught and convicted and been to jail for it. Yeah. This scam had better evolve. That's what I mean. So he evolves it, all right? He now has these guys, these drifters, get a P.O. box. for it yeah this scam had better evolve that's what i mean so he evolves it all right he uh now

has these guys these drifters get a po box he takes them opens up a po box in their name once they have an address yeah then they can get bank accounts so then he opens up bank accounts in their name as soon as they get checkbooks yeah uh they there's instances here where they don't even wait for the checks to come in the mail like they go to the bank to pick up the checks the day they're ready like they're not fucking around at all here they go to the ink press that's what i mean they're like at the bank they're calling like my checks come in yet like super weird uh so he would have them set up their bank accounts and then he would have them buy cattle uh at the auctions with their bank accounts and then he would sell them and

there'd be no proof of his involvement he'd'd sell them two counties over to somebody and he'd take the money. He'd kick these guys 10% or some shit, the guy with the bank account. And that's motivation for this guy to want to keep running the scam. And Stinky McPherson's back on the rail. That's it, man. Back on the rail, back fighting more hobos like Grady Dinty Moore Brewer. So what he would do is he'd get his use out of him. And then that was that.

After the cops would catch on to a guy and he would get blacklisted, he'd move on to the next guy. So you could do this scam a little easier. And there was a million people trying to do a scam like this just with bad checks like we talked about. So it's not tied to him at all at that point. It's not like they're the only ones doing it. So he's got that going for him. There's no way to know how many times this happened with how many many people that's impressive no way to know it just i mean he did it constantly here uh the town uh they thought must have thought it was so weird that so many

every time there's a cattle auction they must have thought it was so weird that this is a wonderful town yeah drifters can just a drifter can just come into town with nothing just a bindle on his shoulder and start a cattle farm just dropping money that's just lovely yesterday this is yesterday red and white checkers today yeah cattle farm this is where dreams come true that's all i'm gonna say you can go from nothing to cattle farm in one day here in this town in mooresville beautiful so the circle stink cross brand that's what that is so 1989 ray employs a man named jack mccormick yeah uh who sounds like an old time that's as cowboys it gets baby it sounds so old time jack mccormick that's like an old time detective

doesn't it this is detective jack mccormick he's going to investigate your case yeah nickname mccurley pin it on a black guy so he mccormick's an interesting guy he is not a 50s joe friday type got it he describes himself now this isn't uh put on him as quote a common gutter tramp and drunk i like him so common gutter tramp and drunk he's basically a business card he's like a country singer from the 50s is what he is here like a real one uh he said he was uh he'd been living at the victory mission in springfield missouri when uh ray copeland came around looking for workers okay so uh uh now ray promised him and this isn't a bad deal he walks up to this guy who's sleeping in a mission in Springfield who has nothing and

is a, quote, common gutter tramp and drunk. And in 1989, Missouri, and we know how cheap it is to live there, he walks up to this man and says, I will give you $20,000 a year if you come work on my farm for you. I'll give you a job, place to stay, and $20,000 a year. This guy guy what a deal okay i mean jesus christ any of these guys i would assume would jump at that if they knew anything about farming i guess i don't know i would be useless on the farm i'd be like you could pay me but that's going to be a lot of training time you're going to be very little

farming going it's going to be slow going is all i have to say because i don't know shit about anything i've never actually been on a farm i'm to warn you and say the crops ain't coming in. I picked strawberries one time. I had a thing. Other than that, I have no farm experience. We cut down our own Christmas tree once. Let me ask. Do you like Bermuda grass?

I can grow that shit for you. I can do it. I'm good at that. I'm decent. But if you have a little bed of something, I can maybe grow you a couple cherry tomatoes. But on a large scale. Maybe. If you're lucky, jal a large scale maybe if you're

lucky jalapenos and if we're talking about cattle yeah i really it's going to take even longer because i know nothing about i don't know how much water those take a lot i would think they're pretty big they look big i don't know how much water they're gonna eat up all our bermuda i feel like no matter how much i give them it's not gonna be enough water is that what i'm saying this is never gonna be enough look at this just keep turn the water It's just never going to be enough. Look at this fucking thing. Turn the water on. Keep it going. Keep it going. Keep them coming.

So August 8th, 1989, he ends up getting printed checks at the Brookfield Bank for Jack McCormick because $20,000 a year isn't for farming. $20,000 a year is for buying cattle. Well, it's to get you out of the shelter. Then he gets you to the house and he goes, okay, never mind $20,000 a year for farming. This is what we're doing. Here's the scam. You can't really, I guess, tell a guy in the mission.

You have to make sure he's on board. You can't tell a common gutter tramp. No, he's going to tell everybody. I got a good scam. Now, once you get him to your house and you put a plate of food in front of him and you go, here's the deal, he's going to go, all right, sure, I'm already here. You call it a deal, not a scam. No, exactly.

Different four-letter word. We got a deal going on going on now i'm gonna teach you how to work it so uh they they go to the brookfield bank ray goes with mccormick and picks him up from the bank because i mean he's anxious uh they go to an auction sale in green city missouri uh after the sale ray expresses this is hilarious this is m McCormick's words, he expressed dissatisfaction with McCormick's cattle buying skills. What does that even mean? I have no, he bought the wrong cattle. And Ray was there. So Ray sat there, arms crossed, like fucking death stare in the sky as he's buying the

wrong cattle and thinking he's doing a good job. See what you got, boy. Go bid that cattle. And if you're McCormick, you're going, what the fuck do I know about how to buy cattle it's a cow you picked me out of a homeless shelter do you understand it's not like i was like on a on some sort of uh recruiter site for cattle auction people who know how to like buy cattle i don't know shit about cattle never claimed to you came to me asshole pull that pull that card out again see where it says see where it says mick what was his name common gutter

tramp and drunk jack mcfarland was jack mccormick close enough common gutter tramp and drunk do you see cattle in there that is not a a euphemism nor is it is it just some sort of a code saying cattle raising motherfucker what i mean is i know nothing about cattle is what I'm saying. So this job, I feel I'm unqualified for it. So I can understand your extreme dissatisfaction with my abilities. Do you see common gutter tramp and overall alcoholic? That means I've fucked a woman the size of a cow, but I've never bought a cow. That's what I'm telling you. Do you see cattle expert anywhere?

I've confused a woman once with a cow and actually fucked a real cow she wasn't even big no woman too i don't know what i was thinking because she's a little kind of one she was skinny i don't know i once got on a girl still i once had rodeo sex that's where you get on her and then whisper her sister's name and hold on for eight seconds that's the my extent of the of the cattle business what is that from what that's a old dumb old jokes.com probably i was gonna say what joke book is that from because i've heard that it is not my joke no no i was i was literally like i've heard that like the eighth grade and i'm like where did that come from is that a common thing that just about every person on earth has heard i I love it, personally.

So there you go. Good job. Way to pull it out of the, way to dust it off. Perfect for a rodeo episode. It's perfect for, there's not a lot of episodes where we get the rodeo in here. We're going to be in New York in a couple weeks doing this. There's not a lot of rodeo there. I got an Ohio case.

Not too much rodeo. Not much. Not much. South Dakota, there's probably a rodeo missouri's got it in spain i got florida coming out of my ass over fantastic florida is annoying because they they there's so much crazy murder and i'm like i can only do one florida per cycle good lord so uh right uh the next morning here uh they're all pissed off anyway after the cattle auction they're all pissed off uh mccorm the cattle auction, they're all pissed off.

McCormick decides that he doesn't want to do this anymore. He quits. Fucking Ray is yelling at him for lack of cattle ability. He's like, I know nothing about cattle. So they do that. He asks Ray to take him to the Brookfield Bank to close his checking account. So, you know, he can't get him in more trouble. I'm going to close my checking account that has zero money in it. It has no money in it.

That's a total scam that you made me open. So take me there. And has checks that are already extended. We're going to close that account? We're going to let's do that. So for some reason, McCormick stays at the house that night, stays at the house that night, too, because he has nowhere else to go. They're supposed to go to the bank the next day.

The next day, Faye leaves the house early, which is not like her. She leaves way before she has to go for work. She makes excuses, saying she has to go to work early at her part-time job at the Holiday Inn. Yeah, she was a housekeeper at the Holiday Inn, Faye. We'll find out, too, later on. She did some other jobs that sound so depressing for an older lady to have to do. So, Ray, at this moment, Faye's gone. She's out of the house.

Can we put out there real quick that if you do stay in a hotel, tip your fucking maid. Yeah, you should always tip your maid. Always throw a cup. Tip your maid. I don't care if it's five bucks. Leave something extra for that poor woman. You should leave five bucks a night, I feel like. That's fair.

That's very fair. Unless you're doing horrible things. Right. All you're doing is, you know, you're cleaning out the shower and making a bed when I'm there. We're not making a mess. It's not terrible. I'm giving you five bucks a night. Sorry.

I can't afford more than that. Fuck you. But if you're fucking doing horrible things, if you're staying for a week and making a mess in that place. And also if you're partying in there, if you're drinking, you're leaving bottles everywhere. Leave some money for that poor woman. Spill shit and they have to clean it up. Leave money for these people.

Honestly. And also, you know what? Put a little butt on there too. That's nice a little weed in legal states even if it's not legal leave it for him she probably smokes she probably does if not i'm sure she knows somebody she knows somebody she'll give it to one of the other housekeepers she'll then take a break feel better and then go in your room and clean it awesome clean the ever-living fuck see it's all you got to pay it forward it's circular that's what it's like this fucking this is a cyclical environment we live in so fay has gone to work at the holiday inn in mooresville it's outside of mooresville but still living in mooresville yeah going to work at the

holiday and sounds depressing as shit it's like four rooms yeah it's that's how many people are staying there that's the other thing and really really how clean is it you know what i mean how much does cleanliness matter? That's what I mean. Or is it basically this is the hotel here if you want to not drive anymore. It doesn't have one. And if it does, go ahead and say whichever you want. You got another place to sleep?

I fucking think so. Best of luck. Best of luck to you. So she's going there. Ray asks Jack if he can come into the barn barn with him yeah uh to help him locate a raccoon that's come in there okay okay there's a raccoon issue honey the ferret's loose right jack the raccoon is in the in the barn uh turns out uh uh mccormick here he notices as he's going into the barn that a tractor had been backed up near the barn uh had a two-wheeled tractor

attached and on the trailer of it was a shovel and a piece of near the barn uh had a two-wheeled tractor attached and on the trailer of it was a shovel and a piece of plastic like a big like a big tarp like you would drag something heavy like yeah like if you were to make a bunch of like leaves you'd put a big pile of leaves and drag it like overkill for a raccoon or say yeah a giant like 180 pound raccoon right like one that's like a five foot eleven hundred eighty pound that sort of thing something like that uh so uh uh they i guess they're poking a stick in a hole in the barn floor looking for a raccoon which again depressing as shit uh so mccormick is doing that and as he turns uh he sees that ray is pointing a 22 rifle at him okay so that's things have taken a turn now all the shit in the trailer that he

saw with the tractor outside is all starting to make sense he was like oh didn't think of that as he was going in he was just like oh that's weird i guess that's for the raccoon you know whatever we're gonna we're gonna bury the raccoon apparently uh so instead here he sees that and uh that's got to be a scary sight uh but but jack here jack mccormick uh he he talks ray into letting him go okay he says don't shoot me uh just take me to brookfield and i'll take off and i'll go you'll never see me again go five states over you'll never common gutter tramp common gutter tramp and drunk right a no one's gonna believe me and b it doesn't matter anyway i'll be gone drifted away i'll have a new name by next month probably so

it doesn't make a goddamn difference billy joel song that's it right there yeah i'm well yeah he's i don't know if he's a billy joel song he's like i'm solitary man i'm a neil diamond song that's me so uh he got burned once and then next thing you know he's on the road man that's what happens he's a springsteen song that was born to run tramp was in that song i'm sure i think it was there's a lot of tramps in the night or some shit like that yeah there's probably a lot of 60 songs about it uh yeah well anyway that's what he's gonna do he's one of those he has like an easy rider fantasy in his mind like he's around and party in new orleans peter fonda and nothing none of this has happened at all for him. It's all turned wrong.

It's all gone wrong. So anyway, they say, you know, he says, just take me there. Ray said he would. But first they had to go to the courthouse for some reason. At the courthouse. To get married? Faye was there. Yes, they were going to get married.

They said it's the 80s in Missouri and everyone in this town is Christian and that sort of thing. But we're going to get gay married, whether you like it or not. We're here. We're people. Right. And we have rights. Yes, we do. We are going to impose them.

That didn't happen, actually, at all, because they would have probably been murdered, I assume, in this town for that kind of outright. Sure. Just being a person, I'm sure. Wait a second. You're not white and Christian. What you are, but you're gay, too. Oh, no. Their brain would explode if they just said.

Everybody make them a cake. No, we're Christian, too. They'd be like, huh? No. Oh, man, they'd go home and kill themselves in the barn. This is too much to process. Blow their brains out in the barn. I don't know what the world is anymore. I'm just dead.

So they do this. They go there. They're at the courthouse, which McCormick says that when they got to the courthouse, Faye seemed very surprised to see him. Yeah. Like, wow, I thought, I don't know. You'd still draw wind. Dead in a barn.

At this point, I don't know what happened here. A little bit later, Ray takes Jack to Brookfield and he closes his checking account uh even though there was a check to for uh 1157 dollars and 46 cents to the green city auction barn that was still outstanding they still allowed him to close it for some reason uh jack said he didn't want to return to the farm for his belong his belongings uh because he was scared that he'd be killed if he went back there. So he didn't want to go back to the farm for the belongings. He said after that, they did the checking account and they parted company.

And Jack said, you know, yeah, I'll get my stuff later, but wasn't planning on ever getting his stuff. I'll go pill for some more. Yeah. So he instead goes to the bar. Jack does. You know, he's a common gutter tramp and drunk here. General alcoholic.

So he's going to the bar. He meets a woman named rose clevenger there uh he tells her about the copelands and he says that he thinks that he's going to be harmed if he returns to their farm for his belongings she says fuck this no you're not going to let these people take your stuff right this is ridiculous i will take you there we'll go together nothing will happen to you if I'm there, too. She's she's very like white lady. She's very like, no, no, no.

I will come with you and I will go. And I don't know if that's brave or if that's just stupid. Don't worry. I'll talk to the manager. They won't shoot both of us on a rural remote farm because I'm I don't know why, because you're you. Why are they not going to shoot you, too? Because I'm Rose. Because I'm Rose and everyone likes Rose. So Rose has a lot of confidence in herself which i that's good good

for her but maybe not the smartest thing in the world uh so she says no i'm taking you to mooresville you're going to get your belongings they get to the farm ray comes outside uh as they pull up uh just cursing up a storm jack tell him to go fuck his mother just everything you could think of he's he's lighting him up like a christmas tree coming out which is weird for an old farmer you don't expect that behavior from an old i would have liked to have witnessed that is what i'm saying it'd be fun i want to see a man pull into a driveway and see an old elderly farmer and overalls come out and just fucking curse this guy into oblivion that sounds amazing uh so uh he comes out he's cursing uh mccormick here jack introduces rose as his sister but uh faye is behind ray and she knows her i know her from the holiday yeah uh no she uh she doesn't believe that

that's his sister for some reason she cares i don't know what the hell she cares what this woman's relationship to him is yeah uh but fay uh pushes this you know pushes this whole thing and she says uh that she insists that she sees this woman's driver's license to see her real name because she doesn't believe she is who she says she is i don't know if he thought they thought she was a cop or something i don't know what they were there's 88 people in this i don't understand what kind of sting operation they're setting up here or what but uh she gives shows uh fay her license and fay writes down her name oh my god and her license plate number on a piece of paper like a police officer like a weird type of police officer or like uh you know robert de niro and goodfellas yeah you may know who we are but we know who you are you know what i mean one of those and he fucking takes his

driver's license and puts in his pocket i feel like it's maybe one of those you know like it's a it's intimidating type of thing like i know you i have your driver's license like number i can find out everything about you now find out everything about you i'll hunt you down i'll kill your mother you know that's the whole thing so he said hunt you down. I'll kill your mother. You know, that's the whole thing. So he said, fuck your mother and I'll kill your mother. Got it. So they're threatening people's mothers in a farm driveway. So this ends up, they end up getting his, they end up getting stuff. Some of the stuff, we don't know if they got all the stuff.

It's some drifters belongings. It really doesn't matter. There's not that much there. It's very small amount. It's a small, it's a bindle. Let's be honest. A bindle on a stick. A couple of shirts.

That's right. it's a small it's a bindle let's be honest a bindle on a stick a couple of shirts that's right so uh jack tells police he ends up going to police and telling them that ray this rose woman says you have to go to the police and say that they you know pointed a gun at you yeah uh he goes to the police and says that ray tried to kill him uh after they've been he was employed by him uh but the cops were kind of uh iffy on it because they're like okay he's some old farmer that does cattle auction scams but you're like a crazy alcoholic who's described yourself as a common gutter tramp and drunk and you're telling us now that this old guy's tried to kill you but you didn't kill you though you're still here like okay buddy whatever the business card

you just handed us uh tells us that your credibility is fucked yes and they wanted him to take a polygraph and he didn't want. And I wanted him to take a polygraph. He didn't want to take a polygraph either. So it was like one of those where they were like, all right, well, get the fuck out of here. Then go, go drift on to the next town, dickhead. So one of those, they'd kind of, he kind of takes off. Now, August 20th, 1989, he calls Jack McCormick does calls a hotline uh for tips that gives reward money and he says

he calls the hotline and says it's a reward money for any kind of open cases basically it's like a general missouri state sure tip he calls it's crime stoppers it's like crime stoppers yeah he calls and says that he had found bones and a human skull on the Copeland farm. Oh, boy. And he says, you know, can I have money now? I figure that was it. So I found bones. Do I get a reward for that? They're like, no, not enough.

He's like, and a skull? There was a head. I found a skull. It was like a baby. I think they killed a baby. It looked like it had been an ankle wheel. I feel like it was held by the ankle and whipped into the ground. Windmill.

Windmill into the ground. Concrete. Possibly. Maybe a gutter. By a gubernatorial candidate or somebody running for an office. I smelled cologne on them is what I'm saying. It was a Paco Rabanne, maybe something from the 80s. I'm not sure.

There was something called Ed 2 or some shit like that. I feel like possibly that's what it was a paco raban maybe something from the 80s there was something called ed 2 i feel like possibly that's what it was it was something ed toilette on it i smelled cool water i think so something more pricey than old spice is what i'm saying that's hilarious so uh uh jack mccormick they don't they basically they're like who the fuck who are you what are you talking about it goes nowhere yeah this whole thing anyway he ends up between august and september jack mccormick drifts in a boozy haze across this nation yeah i assume in the direction that the oregon trail went and he ends up in oregon great he's going from missouri to oregon which is hilarious i hope he did it on a wagon uh the whole deal so uh uh the the police track him down and charge him with bouncing checks in missouri in the cattle auction scam uh so he ends

up jack does at this point so i don't know why he didn't think of this first if he's trying to get ray busted uh i found a skull that sounds far-fetched from this guy if he said i did a check scheme with him where he forced me to but that sounds believable because he's a cradle scammer but i guess then you implicate yourself which isn't a you're not going to go to the police with that you're going to go to the next town and say fuck it but he's already implicated himself because he's written bad checks in his own goddamn no that's that's true you can save your own skin with some information i think that's probably he's written bad checks in his own goddamn name that's true you can save your own skin with some information i think that's probably he's waiting to get busted you're not

going to go ahead of time and go well i did this with him well then you're in trouble too it's jumping the gun a bit so uh they get him and they end up they end up uh arresting him there for these and then he uh mccormick gives the he basically gives the whole operation he's the sammy the bull here he gives the whole breakdown of how the check cashing scam worked. Got it. Everything he knew about it, who he would sell the cattle to and where, what he would have them do the post, the P.O. box. And this puts the whole thing together for the cops. They just have a bunch of bounce checks and a bunch of vagrants' names.

Now they know how it works. Now they have a whole scheme. So this is very valuable information. So he tells these stories he does that he also says i found a skull too and they're like enough with the skull tell us about the checks that's something we can prove you're out of your mind with the skulls here what they end up doing though is they i guess it's well he was right about the check scam yeah let's take a look at the farm anyway let's do that and also too we'll find out ray's got some things in his past that make him a little not exactly the

most upstanding guy in the world so they're like let's check it out here this is a 40 acre farm yeah it has a pond a barn fields woods it's a lot to look for a skull in or a bone in uh they have a huge search party they they uh all these possible burial sites anywhere there's where there's disturbed land they're looking for human remains they have they have dogs yeah backhoes digging shit up they have the long stick things there's tons of disturbed land there's yeah it's it's all over the place they're looking so what they do is on october 9th 89 they arrest ray for fraud okay Let's lock him up while we do this. They arrest him for fraud. They say that he netted $32,000 in reselling cattle.

Because it's all profit. He didn't have to put anything out. So you're selling something you got for free. That's some mob shit there. It's like, well, yeah, it fell off a truck. So it's $100 instead of $200. It's all profit. Zero overhead.

The sheriff and around 40 officers searched this this farm with the uh with a with search warrants uh looking for dead people uh in the search this search lasts for weeks they even poked holes in the walls trying to find hollow hiding spots they weren't fucking around they were they were really looking there was nine days of searching with no success uh then they started to think that mccormick was searching with no success uh then they started to think that mccormick was full of shit uh day four they started thinking that listen pal uh yeah we just spent there's 40 of us we got you know expensive these fucking dogs are to have out here every day that takes costs a lot to train them i don't know if you're aware of this county but we

we make our own soap right because we don't really have a ton of money so what we're saying here is uh this shit better be true yeah the fuck is your problem uh tell you what asshole why don't really have a ton of money. So what we're saying here is this shit better be true. The fuck is your problem? Tell you what, asshole. Why don't you come out? I don't know why they didn't do this to begin with. They said, you come to the fucking farm and tell us where the God. Show us where the skull was.

On day 10, they did that? They did this on day 10. You'd think this would be, let's take Jack there. See if the spot he says the skull is. Check there first is what I'm getting at. And then fan out from there. There's a guy. see if if the spot he says the skull is that's check there first is what i'm getting at and then fan out from there there's a guy then bring in the dog yeah there's a guy that has dogs in that town that goes my dogs will find them i'll bet you a t-bone steak and he did not want to cough up that t-bone steak he went i'm telling you nine days here

rusty gonna find him that's all i'm gonna say he's a red-haired tickhunter he gonna find him like i don't even know if that's a real bond it's a blue hot blue tick i don't fucking know he's red this one's red he's got a special one that's why he thinks he could find it i'm sure there's a red one he's very special he's a red one it's very different so uh clifford the big red dog out there yeah yeah uh so this sheriff odell uh is one of the people who takes jack mccormick back to the farm uh he says he says that he remembers telling mccormick quote just point to where the skull and leg bones were that's all they are frustrated you just point to the skull and we'll take it from there take you on back these dogs ain't shit we'll take you for

ass cream afterwards as a matter of fact so uh yeah so sheriff odell says point them out yeah where's the skull hot shot there and uh so uh uh apparently when mccormick is confronted with this you know kind of put up or shut up thing he gets really nervous and he tells police at that point that maybe he was just mistaken he says it could have been a discarded pan or another kind of a large object poking from the bushes. And he asked to be taken away from the farm. Sheriff beat the holy shit. Oh, you know, they did.

They nightstick. Nine days. You mother let the dog bite him. He's asked to be taken off the farm right away. He says he doesn't want to spend another minute more than he needs to at this fucking fucking farm he's out of this farm uh so police are pissed off at this point here they're pissed they're like what the what how is this guy so scared this alcoholic drifter guy is petrified of this fucking farmer he's full of shit he's got farm scams who the fuck is ray copeland right who is this asshole and why is this happening and and we need to look a little deeper.

Who is he? Let's find out. He was born in 1914, Ray Copeland, so that's why he's in his mid-70s here. He's born in Oklahoma. He moved continuously, his family did, as a child. He's from a drifter family, which was common in the 20s and 30s in the kind of dust bowl because oklahoma was the turning of the dust bowl when he was like five six years old so it was tough there so they moved all around they ended up settling in uh ozark hills arkansas which not that's scary that's like i believe that

is the uh setting for deliverance and also i believe the beverly hillbillies is that where he came from i think they know texas uh i don't know where he came from oh let me tell you about louisiana no not louisiana it's not a creole it's not a fucking creole somewhere black oil texas tea but it wasn't it wasn't in texas from texas no i feel like i think it was the ozarks they were hill folk yeah rednecks they were different type they were hillbillies there you go so i'm pretty sure it was arkansas probably so ray dropped out of school in the fourth grade holy to help his family because that's what you had to do back then especially if you were like vagrant uh you know dust bowl people yeah vagrant dust bowl okies you had to like everyone all hands on deck at this point here

you're going to work with dad right that's the way it works here. So they grow up really hard and tough. Obviously, the whole family does. He's got a lot of siblings. And it's a tough, tough times back then. 1934, when he's 19 years old, he steals two hogs from his father. So he's been running. He's been running livestock scams for 50 years. Whole damn time.

Whole damn time. Whole damn time. He steals two hogs from his father and sells them in the next town. So that's a thing that he figures out. From there, his dad, by the way, finds out about it and gets pissed off at him, but never turns him in. He doesn't have any kind of criminal interaction out of this. The police don't get involved at all. From there, he keeps stealing livestock from

other local people he's like well obviously if i steal them from my dad that's obvious that gets me caught real that's gonna get me caught i gotta go two farms over and steal some shit and then whatever so he keeps stealing hogs and all he moves on to cattle that's how he kind of gets some of his cattle expertise here uh he's like a rugged kind of western guy sure there's a picture of him i found he's like on a horse it western guy sure there's a picture of him i found he's like on a horse it's like one of those where it looks like the horse is like in mid buck like it's you know the front end is front ends down the ass ends up and he's like doing some cowboy shit on there yeah he's like a he's an old timey cowboy this guy still 1936 not 1876 but he he's

always in the wrong time period. I feel like Ray would have been fine if he was born in 1814. Well, they would have probably hung him for cattle thievery. They wouldn't have just given him time in jail. Never mind. He's better off. He would have been one of Billy's kids' boys. He would have been.

Part of the younger gang. Probably. Let's find out about him here. Now, 1940, or I'm sorry, 1936 he's arrested in harrison arkansas for forging checks so i mean he's these are like not even new ideas that he has it's just the same thing he's sentenced to a year in jail keep track of these sentences of his of his jail terms because they don't make any sense at all it's not a deterrent let's just put it that way uh so he gets one year in jail there 1940

uh in the spring of 1940 when making a visit to the doctor i guess just getting a checkup he said uh he's making a visit to his doctor's office and he meets 19 year old uh fella day wilson uh i'm sorry faye della wilson got it fella day yeah i completely missed those same name faye della wilson he meets and and falls kind of falls for her. And it's small town. It's like if you're two single 19 year old people, it's like, well, you're here. I'm here. Let's let's do this.

I guess we're doing this here. They become a couple pretty quickly. She was born in 1921. Her parents names are Rufus and Gladys Wilson, which sound like black people. Yeah, they do she's not black at all she's just super white as a matter of fact rufus and who gladys and gladys wilson christ she came up awfully hard also in in the terms of not like him with kind of having a fucked up family that moved around their family was just poor uh they they were known as a hard

working couple they were actually uh raised seven children they didn't have a lot of money at all but they were considered like a close-knit because they got seven fucking seven kids but they but they kept it together they they didn't they weren't a mess they weren't the wild wonderful whites of west virginia like they were like there's seven of us and our shit isn't nice but it's clean you know what i mean like everything this is clean and it's hard to keep it clean because they grew up in a dirt floor cabin oh my gosh she grew up without flooring that sounds horrible horrible i can't i've heard of it before obviously crime and sports episodes we've had like three people that grew up with dirt floors i'll never get over that as long as i live that sounds

so bad that's the difference there's a couple okay yeah i would say there's three differences between indoors and outdoors there is a roof i think number one uh from weather and the rain and then sun general walls i would say would be two and third would be the floor maybe some flooring i would say those three things are make a little box that protect you from the outside everything else is just you know cosmetic after that you can put bathrooms and sinks and you know things like that but the nice part about a foundation house is that shit can't dig its way in in through the bottom yeah you're not gonna have raccoons like they are in the barn pop up and that that that's a plus i feel like at that point you wake up snuggled into a fucking possum that's that's ridiculous that's a bad morning when you wake up next to a possum not the best yeah well maybe it's a good morning i don't know what these people are into maybe that maybe you wake up and you go well breakfast just snuggled into bed with us yeah so back then i

guess kill it snap its neck yeah be quiet open it up open it up see what's inside delicious inside so uh she ray apparently this she said later on that ray promised to protect her that was the big thing i'll always protect you he's a big cowboy guy i picture him as like a just a dry skinned like dusty oh leathery as fuck yeah like yeah like his hands are so dry they've got and they've got so many calluses big dry split calloused hands cracked and bloody. Yeah, absolutely. I see that like blood, blood in the cracks.

It doesn't drip. Yeah, no, it doesn't dry. It's dried blood. Dry blood. You hold hands in your blood brothers. That's right. That's how it works. Apparently, she dug that.

And back then, too, if you just found someone of the opposite sex, it was around the same age as you that you sort of like you just got married. Fuck it. And you stayed together for 80 years. That was like. So they both said, who knows if this is true but they both said they had never had sex before and they didn't have sex until they got married i believe it which is i believe it because they got married six months after they met yeah so i feel like they were like we were getting married like you i want to fuck you i want to fuck you now so we're yeah married good all right let's do it i feel like that's another reason why there's a lot of marriages back then yeah was why we want to have sex yeah so let's just get married

and then let's because we can't get divorced because everyone will look down on us now we have to be together for 60 years hate each other be alcoholics abuse each other people be shit out of each other at least there's fucking but there's some fucking well there was back then and then that goes away and uh you know you have horribly abusive cycles and then people beat their kids and it goes on and on and on and all that because you couldn't have sex because you're christian right sorry sorry religious people but yes i know if you go the other way and all the kids are fucking then you have other problems but it's not it's just different it's either this life or a tug with these cracked calluses there has to be a happy medium is what I'm getting at.

There has to be a happy medium. There has to be. These cracked calluses hurt. It hurts. I can't jerk it. I got jizz in them. I can't. It burns.

It stings. It burns, boy. So at this point in the 40s, Ray buys a lot of land on the outskirts of Mooresville, Missouri. This is just a small plot. It has a farmhouse and a couple of barns and a little bit of open space. Ray knew his cattle. He knew his cattle shit at this point.

He got his cattle business down. He'd been stealing for years. And he thought the best way for him to provide a life for his family and have a nice life here is to uh sell cattle he's gonna be a cattle dealer gonna buy and sell cattle wheeling and dealing some cattle uh 1941 they have a son named everett uh he's born 1943 they have a second son named billy ray yeah so uh billy keep these names or they come fast and furious 1944 the family moves to Fresno, California, which we found out from San Francisco people

is apparently their Tucson, basically. That is California's Tucson is Fresno. Sorry, Fresno. We're just saying what other people have told us. It's not our fault. It's not our fault. We know nothing. So, 44, they move to Fresno.

1945, there's a daughter named Betty Lou born. There's a lot of people in Fresno right now going, you believe everything queers tell you? That's right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm here to tell you, yeah, we do. And then they take their Oakleys from the back of their necks and put them on their head. So 1945, the daughter Betty Lou is born. So now they have a Betty Lou and a Billy Ray.

1947, they have another son. Want to guess a name? Jimmy Jack. Al Via. I was close. Want to guess a name? Jimmy Jack. Al, Alvia. I was close. Close. That's what you'd expect, right? Alvia, A-L-V-I-A.

I don't know if that was like her grandfather or son. I have no goddamn idea. But Alvia, 1947. 1949, Ray is accused of stealing horses from a neighbor who's a local farmer out in Fresno. Why don't you go a town over and steal the horses he's lazy why you're lazy right horses you're lazy right like i want to steal some horses looks out the window there's some like no those are not the horses you want to steal go to the place those horses are not your horses go to the place where you're the horses couldn't see your

house from where they're walking around so So no charges end up happening here. But his reputation in the town is ruined. Everybody thinks he's a thief. He can't get credit for livestock and for equipment and things like that like he used to because nobody trusts him anymore. It's a mess here. So his fourth son is born right about this time. And his name, he calls him William Wayne. So now there's a billy

wayne and a billy ray and a betty lou oh my god so billy wayne billy ray and betty lou and alfalfa and alfalfa here uh so shortly after he's born after old billy wayne is born or william wayne he likes to be called i don't blame him since his other brother's fucking billy uh they didn't i don't think realize that william is also billy right they named the one billy and then they were like well william and no one said uh that's my name that's nope didn't happen so uh they moved back to arkansas after that so full circle here they do the full okie tour back to arkansas uh after about less than a month there uh ray is arrested for cattle theft of course so he cannot stop stealing fucking cattle cattle thieving son of a bitch absolutely he ends up getting sentenced to one year in jail

for this okay which i mean i guess that makes sense because he's done it before but the cat he the cattle were returned i don't know but he's still not learning a lesson that's the thing and they gave him the same sentence and we'll talk about that 1950 ray gets out of jail and moves the family to rocky comfort missouri which sounds like the garden spot of america sounds terrible 1951 he's arrested for guess what cattle theft again this is 1851 1951 he's sentenced to manual labor on a judge's farm that doesn't seem fair not just a judge's farm the judge that sentenced him to manual labor on the farm he didn't even say like i'm sentencing you to judge you know judge parker's farm and then down the street he's like you're coming to

my house yeah you son of a i could use you how the fuck is that legal like i sentence you to remodel my basement just sentence people to whatever what year is it what the fuck is happening judge judy should make people do work on her house yeah that'd be great when you long for the old times right this is the old times don't long for it it was terrible it was just as bad sorry this is terrible that tv show that would be yeah you could partner up so much shit with that so many tv shows yeah you could roll up a bunch into one i'll have to talk about that later for ideas to pitch uh 1953 he's fresh out of jail moves the family to illinois okay uh they stay there for a little bit and then they start moving from town to town just like he did when he was a kid they move continuously for the next eight years all the kids from 1953 on all these

billy ray's and way Lues and Billy Bobs. So much packing. Everywhere for eight years. Over that time, Ray is arrested three different times for check forgery. Of course he was. In the next eight years in a bunch of different towns. And that's only what they could find record of. Who knows how many times he was told, you get out of this town before I put a bullet between your eyes or some shit like that by the sheriff. Right.

In lieu of formal arrest, he took it a different way. 1961, Ray buys 20 cattle. Problem is he buys them with a bad check. Of course he did. Obviously. And he's arrested and eventually sentenced to nine months in jail. So he got one year, one year, and nine months. It's going backwards.

White privilege. He's learning. You know, like he gets it it's fine like we're gotta walk him there the more he does it the less time i feel like it's just a general he's getting it right he's gonna understand what the hell was hand ratty to chase him down for all these checks no shit we need a come on here so uh knock knock that's my favorite knock knock joke of all time from the from catch me if you can knock knock who's there go fuck yourself that's the end of the joke that's the joke it's a very boston joke yeah it's very it's very boston century okay i love i love boston we love you boston so uh so uh he gets out of jail fresh out of jail again in 61 uh uh he learns he's learned his lesson

right he's fine now uh but he does need cattle yeah he's always got a cattle issue he's like a coke dealer who gets out of the pen he did some federal time he gets out and he's like i gotta get my shit back in the game yeah i need to you know i need to get me a couple of keys at least to put out on the street and start building this shit up that's what he comes out and he's like all right i gotta sling this cattle i need a couple head of cattle he's slinging cattle man that's the thing by the way have we discussed a head of cattle is that just like a a cow i think that's a cattle because you'll be like a hundred head so i think that's why don't you just say a hundred cows i don't know i don't know why you would say that why do you say i assume they've

all got heads why do you say i bought three pairs of jeans i suppose you got one fucking leg of the jeans you bought i bought five jeans that's plenty we know what you bought i mean five pairs they don't come saying that they don't come in single legs i don't think that i've ever seen i bought five pairs of shoes did you that's good you didn't just buy three rights and a couple of lefts of a different brand you bought five pairs if some guy sells me a hundred head of cattle and then he shows up to my house with a dump truck and just dumps a hundred heads on my yard i'm gonna be pissed maybe that means they're alive okay does that what that means i don't know maybe that means they're alive though that would make sense a hundred head means like you can you're gonna they're all attached he's gonna walk them over to you whereas the other

ones would be you're gonna open a door and see him hanging from the ceiling. Got it. Signs of beef. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know. It better be. So he buys 19 cattle at a livestock auction with a bad check. He's arrested again. And he's sentenced to another nine months. Jesus. It's the same year.

I think you should get more time for that maybe. Fucking guy. I don't know how he gets out of this. Well, it's a joke because we don't believe that it even fucking happened it's so stupid that's true at least not in the century like you were stealing cattle for real why so uh 1966 the family moves back to missouri in 1967 they settle on a 40 acre farm where mooresville and here's where we start again. You betcha. Oh, it's all looping back. Yes, sir. You know it, baby.

He buys this plot of land, this 40-acre farm that they live on through this whole time for $6,000. Wow. Which seems like it's way too much. That seems great, though. It feels like it's more expensive than it would be today, inflation included. You know what I mean? Like $6,000 then is more than $23,000, whatever the average place is there, seems like.

So 1970s, early 70s, to the neighbors, they looked like a normal kind of older farming couple. They lived a simple life. They appeared to be just people who weren't that social. A lot of times the farm people sometimes are social, but a lot of times these older people, they kind of they're on their own themselves they keep to themselves they're not you know they have a farm they're 40 acres they we got shit to do we don't have time to congregate with my neighbors that's what i mean we're kind of on our own land and leave us alone

and we're just kind of quiet uh they didn't like to socialize a lot but nobody like i said that wasn't out of the ordinary nobody made a big deal out of it. Turns out on the inside, though, Ray was super abusive. He would beat the shit out of Faye at the drop of a hat. He was a horrible, horribly abusive person to everybody in the family. No one outside the family knew any of this, but the kids knew all about it. And later on, they would recall times. One of his children, Al, Alvia Copeland. Good call going by Al.

Yeah. He says. Probably the best shortened of that name. I would say. There's very few ways. Now he's Al Copeland, which sounds much more normal in this area for to not get beat up than Alvia. He's the bank manager.

Alvia. Right. That sounds like a woman name and i don't yeah he's the bank manager al so uh he says that he can recall thousands of times that ray lost his temper and took it out on either the wife or the kids uh one of uh uh he once recalled that uh ray smacked al's younger brother i guess that would be be Billy Wayne, in the head with a frying pan. With a frying pan. And this is old school.

This is probably a cast iron fucking frying pan. Because the younger kid was scraping the last little bit of oatmeal out of his bowl with a spoon. And Ray didn't like the noise. So rather than take the bowl away or say, can you please stop doing that? Or just, I don't know, ride it out for 10 seconds until he's done eating his fucking oatmeal. He smacks him in the head with a fucking frying pan like a psychopath, which sounds insane. Like my childhood. That's insane.

That sounds terrible. That sounds, how many frying pans? I mean, I wasn't. That's what I mean. Let's not go crazy with the, we had shit but i no one just without warning hit me in the head with a cast iron frying pan i was hit with some shit though so was i my grandmother's from italy what do you expect but not a cast iron frying pan nothing that's a murder that's what i'm saying nothing that's a potentially deadly weapon no one tried to end my young life in an

area of your body that could potentially fucking end your days yeah very easily and hit with that especially a child uh and they're poor as fuck too which doesn't help either so he's beating the shit out of her beating the shit out of the kids they're poor uh fay had a job for years at a local glove making factory uh it was it was piecework meaning she got paid per piece she made not even per, so she could come home and make way less than even minimum wage or anything like that. She was known as just being very dour, never smiling, as I don't blame her. She grew up in a dirt floor cabin, and she's been dealing with this asshole, intermittently

beating the shit out of her and going to jail for things for the last fucking 40 years. And she's over there sewing gloves together, going, I wish you'd put these on before he hit me make it a little more pillow come on now just a little softer and on top of that uh she's taking shifts at the holiday inn at night to fucking you know clean rooms of good lord it's a terrible life and she's known as an exceptional exceptionally worker, never caused any problems. The whole deal was the Midwest Quality Gloves Corporation. She worked there from 1966 basically through 1988. So she worked there for 20-something years. Yeah.

She started cleaning rooms at the Holiday Inn and then ended up being the front desk person at the Holiday Inn Motel there. And she also was the owner of the hotel's babysitter and all that sort of shit. Working her way up. Working her way up. She'll do anything for money. She works hard. And if she doesn't come home with money,

who knows what Ray's going to do to her. The neighbors did not like Ray. They viewed him as, over time here, as a bitter old man. And they thought that he abused the family. They were like, he seems like an old abusive asshole. Nobody was surprised when they heard about that later on, that he abused the family they were like he seems like an old abusive asshole nobody was surprised when they heard about that later on that he was super abusive uh so she's working in the all these factories and as a maid at one point she is asked what why

she puts up with this yeah like what why don't you get a divorce or why don't you why are you putting up with him cattle scamming and all this and you have to work two jobs to make ends meet and she said quote because he was my husband i was taught from childhood that when you married someone you stayed with them the husband was the boss ray was always the boss good luck trying that shit wow yeah fuck man i had some dirt floor living mentality there much wow that's amazing how do you get that brainwashed though you know what i mean that's brainwashed that's really years of abuse yeah and that's how she was raised yeah i mean think about she was raised she was born in like 1920 so i mean she's raised in a way that uh you know our society enabled that behavior and that was considered being a good that's how you would

raise your daughter so she'd go out and get a husband and work and have kids and then he wouldn't you know leave her or whatever. That was so weird the way things were set up back then. So everybody needed also Faye would help on the farm. That's the other thing, too. She's working two jobs. They had way more work than they could even do, which is insane. She's sewing gloves together, cleaning shitters, and then going out to till the field.

Oh, no, no, no. Not then going out to till the fields. Try before she goes to build gloves and shitters and then going out to till the fields? Oh, no, no, no. Not then going out to till the fields. Try before she goes to build gloves and shitters. She would wake up super early in the morning so she could go muck out the cattle stalls. The family, though, was so poor that when she did this, she had to do it barefoot because the only shoes she had were the shoes she had to wear to work. And you can't wear your muck raking shoes to the hotel and sit at the front desk smelling cattle shit. You're walking around and fucking cold shit. So, yeah, she no matter what the temperature she would have to be, she'd be barefoot mucking.

Get her a cheap pair of shoes. Right. When you're stealing cattle and scamming, have one of these vagrants stop by Walmart and write a check for a couple pairs of shitty boots. So this lady cannot fucking be barefoot out there. That's the kind of asshole this is. That wasn't a priority. Wake up early, Ray, and do it yourself. No, no, no, no.

That's Faye's job. Don't you understand? Ray's got scamming to do here. So that's just nuts, man. That's depressing. Ray had no wonder why she didn't smile very much. You know what I mean? And then she needed to keep the shoes clean.

So that's terrible, man. You're worried about your shoes like that. What a fact. That's so poor and sad. I mean, I don't know. So anyway, once the Copeland children left the farm, once they got too old, then he needed people to help. That's when he started getting vagrant sense. And he said, hey, I cannot go to jail for this cattle thing and get them.

That's where it's there. As he's getting older, too, he's losing his hearing. He's not a good businessman anyway, obviously. He wouldn't have been arrested so many times. He's also illiterate. Ray, which doesn't shock. He dropped out in the fourth grade and was a hog thief. I mean, there were not a lot of need for a great literary ability and oratory skills from your own writings you know what i mean writing

a speech and delivering it not to get right in dissertations not much no don't picture him being part of the toast masters probably not probably not uh he couldn't read or write uh which made it difficult to you know do the business shit for him uh he needed someone to help out with chores he needed business help he needed all these people uh like we said he would go this is when he found the homeless people the missions the drifters uh all that sort of thing and he liked having people with uh with uh with records uh now by the 80s it looked like ray had calmed down he hasn't gone to jail in 20 years yeah last time he was arrested was in the 60s so and he'd never been arrested for a violent crime so since he's come to town basically he's just been the weird old farmer but he hasn't done anything to raise suspicions from the cops that's why when mccormick is saying

their skulls are like what the that's the old couple that's lived there for 20 fucking years he's an old dick and he beats up his wife and she's kind of a dour lady who mucks shit with no shoes on but they're not fucking killing people. They're just cattle hustlers. You know, this is come on. Cattle rustlers, James. No, no, no. This is that would be cattle rustling would be in the 1800s.

If you do it in the 80s, it's cattle hustling. That's the thing. Because he's running a hustle. He's not running a rustle. I guess you get the point. It's just hilarious. I feel like a rustle is you take the cattle from where they are and you're like come on guys come on and you like push them toward where they

need to go do you like steal them on foot whereas i feel like a hustle is you get a guy to give you his cattle on you know with your words and with your actions and with your bad checks hysterical this whole thing is fucked up as shit isn't it how weird is this that this is a cattle hustling you didn't expect that in this episode wait till you see here what happens next this is when it gets crazy here uh so uh uh one of the problems here is uh all these people they were looking for they notice it all comes together because mccormick's talking about these bones and then they start saying yeah everybody we look for on that farm is gone and then ray has the same story of why they're gone yeah we really need to look into this uh they get another tip uh they get a tip

here uh and they uh at one point and they end up searching a secondary location which is uh another little barn that's kind of off his property uh they end up searching that they find a barn where copeland would work uh moving around large bales of hay. Sure. And they find in the back corner of the barn underneath all sorts of big bales of hay. They move all of this. They find a shallow grave. In it, they find three bodies, three, three men buried head to toe.

So they're like stacked, like, you know, militaries execute people and bury them. So they're laid head to toe. Sweet. So they're like stacked, like, you know, militaries execute people and bury them. So they're laid head to toe. They say that the cops figure they've been in the grave for about two to three years. They're completely unrecognizable due to the decomposition. They were wrapped in blankets. So that's three blankets. They're wrapped in three bodies and blankets. That's on purpose.

Yeah. I don't think they got chilly, snuggled, and then fell in a hole and died together like i don't think that happened like now they have a fucking serial killer for sure they have something happening here so they have three separate bodies here that's a bad thing uh they are identified as 21 year old paul jason cowart who is from dardanelle arkansas. Also 27-year-old John Wayne Freeman, which sounds like a made-up, like it sounds like a wrestling name from the 80s. A guy that would come with a big giant flag. It's John Wayne Freeman.

He comes out like Hacksaw Jim Duggan with a big flag. That's what I feel like that is. And you pronounce the man part at the end. Yeah, Freeman. Freeman. And then 27-year-old Jimmy Dale Harvey from Springfield, Missouri. Those are the three people that they found. They decomposed a lot, to be unrecognizable, but not down to skeletal remains because of the way they were wrapped in the blankets and in damp soil.

They were kept from decomposing that much. There was clay is what they were buried in so that kind of preserved them uh the skin in the of the bodies had dried out and shriveled like a mummy oh boy so that's what they looked like they were like dehydrated oh like like a like a like a fruit that you're so scary you didn't want to have to put in the fridge anymore like that's fucking frightening shrunken heads uh they'd all been killed by single gunshot wounds to the head but there was no evidence linking ray or anybody else to the crimes at that point because it wasn't on his property it was off his property uh now later on a few days later in another barn on that

same property police uh take tons tons more body bales of hay out of a barn sure they're just just pulling bales of hay at every barn looking. They're just pulling bales of hay out of every barn, looking under the ground now, with good reason. They look under a floorboard, and they find another person. It's Wayne Warner, another man who had worked on the Copeland farm. All four of these men so far have known to have worked on the Copeland farm. Matter of fact, they're all wanted in check frauds connected to Ray Copeland. All four of these guys. Six weeks later, in a well nearby,

all the way down in a well, they find another body. This body is a little easier to identify because he's got a giant belt buckle that says Dennis across the front. So they assume this is Dennis Murphy that they've been looking for for a while now. So this is all coming together here.

Very much. So they, they find all these men. So they re-interview Ray about, or they re-interview Jack McCormick and they're like, okay, well tell us some more, tell us more here.

This time he was more confident in the memories he told him about the whole deal we've retired those dogs that we had before yeah we need to talk to you listen they didn't find shit and there was five bodies out you should have a little confidence now i think now that's that's the whole deal here so mccormick says well i told you fucking people he said i said i was scared because i have skulls and bones and shit i figured he'd had no problem killing people uh police searched the copeland house they find a 22 rifle that matches and everything that matches right up to all of these men's bullets that were found in their skulls because they're 22s and they just bounced around in there so uh what a shot he is and he knows just one does it oh run Oh, run to the head, I guess.

Christ, he's probably how many animals has he put down and how many he knows where to put it. I'm telling you, this is a mob story, except with cattle. He's like a Colombian drug dealer with a coal cartel, except it's just him and the coke is cattle. It's so fucking weird. They also find an assortment of men's clothing none of which belong to ray uh which you know they have vagrants in and out so that that's nothing much they find several pairs of shoes uh men's shoes in a range of sizes none of which uh fit ray or their sons so who knows they also found a bunch of empty suitcases uh with uh just nothing in them from different people

uh the worst thing they found though well they're not not the worst there's two worst things first of all they found a quilt which sounds nice yeah ray ray knitted or a fave knitted a quilt isn't that nice problem is the quilt uh was made from pieces of clothing from the dead men wow so that's kind of not terrific is that celebrating i think that's that. So that's kind of not terrific. Is that celebrating? What is that? I think that's your trophy right there. That's your ear necklace.

That is like an 1800s farm grandma way that you would keep a serial killer trophy. Well, I'm just, you know what? It gets chilly at night, so I'm going to make me a quilt. That's the equivalent of giving your girlfriend a pair of earrings that you took off a woman you killed. You know what I mean? Like your weird thing. I earrings that you took off a woman you killed you know what i mean like your weird thing i'm gonna make me nuts and then she puts it over her little legs at night when she watches tv i feel like that's what it is so i have a quilt that's made of my kids uh onesies from his first year of life yeah uh this is a little different this is a smidge smidge darker slightly different but that's not the most damning thing and especially

for fay because that's pretty damning for fay yeah you know what i mean she participated now this is worse i would say uh hidden in a camera case is a list of names this was a list of men that had worked for ray in the past who have known been known to work for him all these men next to four of the names they were x'd out okay and these were happened to be four of the these happen to be four of the dead men that were found on this property not good so four of these people uh by the way uh who do you think wrote that list raise illiterate not he doesn't know how to write shit he's not writing shit it's written kind of an old farm lady's handwriting it's faye writing this list this is in faye's handwriting so faye obviously knows something if she's writing

these men's name down and xing them out as their murder right so faye it's it's kind of difficult for her to now say that it's uh she's not she's not involved in this or didn't didn't know right yeah i'm just a battered woman i didn't know nothing well it's like you probably are a battered woman you're probably forced to do it but you're still participating and you could have got him locked up forever if you really wanted to but i don't know scared i get that even the mccormick guy was scared to go to the farm with the police right he was with a team of sheriffs and he was scared to go there and this is a lady 40 sheriffs while ray was in jail for fraud right and he was scared uh so yeah it's it's fucked up man they do it was it was hard to find out who a lot of these guys were because

a lot of them they were drifters they didn't have dental records that were from before they were kids. The only guy, one guy had a really weird tooth pattern, apparently, that was easily matched. Okay. And he grew up kind of in the same sort of area, the guy from Springfield, Missouri. So they were able to track him down rather quickly. All the kids made fun of me when I was a kid, but they found my body. Now they found my body, buried in a shallow clay grave under some hay. Thank God for these shitty teeth.

Who wins now? Wayne. That's who wins. Good old snaggle Wayne. John Wayne Freeman. That's right. Because I'm a free man. Right.

Then he blasts Leonard Skinner and peels out in his 1979 Camaro. 79 Camaro. So they talk about how inside they could tell that how the that the gunshots were fired from a close distance. The coroner said, quote, if the shot is fired from a close range, the inside of the skull tends to break or flake away. And there's more small fractures and damage done to the skull altogether, which makes sense. Obviously, it's just a little more of a blast there. They found the bullets bullet fragments everything was conclusively determined to come from only one gun and that is ray's 22 caliber rifle that he just decided to go put back in his bedroom and everything was fine uh the like i said the the quilt man jesus christ that quilt is weird and

the and the name and the list is disturbing yeah they're both creepy as fuck here at this point they arrest ray for five murders they arrest him for murders uh they also arrest fay for the murders absolutely because of the handwriting mainly they have a quote here because the town this huge town you know people are a little surprised this doesn't happen often so here's a quote from a guy named joe adams who is this is how they attribute him in the newspaper the owner of an isolated hay barn so that's his that's his claim to fame that's him that's he's the isolate wow he's that's his business card joe said quote we really didn't know them that well you know i mean we knew them but we really didn't talk to them a lot or pry

into what they did or didn't do or things like that in other words they in other words they had my philosophy of neighboring my philosophy for everyone out there and i suggest you do this don't even wave at your neighbors don't talk to them if they come out avert your gaze don't look at them because guess what happens when they go on a killing spree the cops are going to come knock on your door and they're going to say what do you know about them and you go not a fucking thing and, the cops are going to come knock on your door and they're going to say, what do you know about them? And you go, not a fucking thing. And you slam the door and your involvement in the whole thing is over with. You don't have to go to court. You don't have to talk to anybody.

You're fucking done. If you had, if you hung out in the front yard with that guy for five minutes, you're going to spend the next six months of your life dealing with the ramifications of him murdering a bunch of people. Not just that. Don't talk to anyone you don't have to talk to. If you're friends with your neighbor and they go go missing it's always the people that are closest they got a lot of questions never even talked to him did he have brown hair beats the shit out of

me slam done fuck out of here this guy's like we really didn't pry or know who they killed or didn't kill you know how it goes you don't even know who they didn't kill don't ask me who they killed me i'm sure that my wife she ain't dead but any she honestly anybody the kennedy assassination i can't put it past him i don't know the man that well like i said we dearly didn't know them that well you know that was my quote did you read it uh we don't know what they did do or didn't do. We don't know nothing. An inventory of Faye's purse. That's a good one.

They did an inventory of Faye's purse when she's arrested, and they found a signed blank check from McCormick in there, and pages and a signed bank starter check also. So this is all very, very incriminating here. They also discovered jail personnel while they're in jail, Ray and Faye. Numerous notes sent by Faye to Ray suggesting that she had knowledge of something incriminating might turn up from searches on the property and shit like that.

Trying to kind of code it a little bit, but they're not really the brightest people in the world. They don't code things. They end up dismissing the fraud charges against Reich. Like, let's concentrate on, you know, five murders. This will only get them 90 days anyway from the fast experiences or nine months. Yeah, absolutely. One of the district attorneys said, quote, many officers felt convinced that Faye Copeland had a direct role in the killings, which I would say so.

And for and Jack McCormick said that she was involved in the murders also, that she knew it was going on. There's also evidence that she was at the house when one of the victims was shot inside the Copeland house, that she was home at the time. There's evidence of that uh they found evidence of a man being shot they found blood stains and the whole deal because they went over this this you know after that they went in the house they're like let's look for everything luminol everything let's do this shit uh so everything looked to have been cleaned you know like a like a hotel waitress or or made you know like like a holly there was a strip of paper over the toilet bowl so i thought that was a dead giveaway.

The toilet paper and was folded into a triangle. I don't know why. It just made it look like someone else didn't just tear that apart with their shit stained hands. That's why. Jesus Christ. So Faye says she didn't know a goddamn thing. She says, I knew about the other shit he did, but I didn't know about, you know, that he's been murdering people or uh that you know i just know about the cattle fraud scheme and he said that i thought they were just in the cattle fraud scheme game with him here uh ray told her all the

time that these guys had just run away when she fired he would fire him and they'd take off yeah uh she said she had no doubt reason to doubt her husband's story uh they were vagrants and whatever uh she also said that ray had physically and emotionally abused them there her for their entire marriage and so she wasn't about to push him for details yeah was her thing which again makes sense all of this would make perfect sense if everything wasn't written in her handwriting x's next to the names that is so incriminating even the quilt you can say i found some jeans on the side of the farm road here and if you cut them up make quilt out of them that's weird but she's not going to go you sure you

didn't kill a hall you didn't kill a drifter and then take his clothes and like that i get but the names i don't think so uh because that's the only the only differentiation between those people and the other people on the list were that those were dead people and the other people were certain so that's a problem here that's a problem here also with all these notes going back and forth they get a real good handwriting sample from faye to conclusively match her to that list and also it was kind of on her person so that's the other thing the police said yeah faye you're fucked and she said no i'm good she said i don't think so i didn't do nothing i didn't know about nothing they're not gonna they're not gonna do nothing to me.

I'm a nice old farm lady. And they said, oh, yeah, we're looking for the death penalty for both of you cocksuckers. Oh, my God. So they're going to execute two fucking 80-year-old people is what they're trying to do now, which is super. When have you ever heard of a case when an elderly married couple is about to be executed together? Never. This is the weirdest fucking case ever. That's why we had to do this case. It's so different.

It's insanity so uh they they end up only charged with uh four of the uh or four of the deaths instead of the fifth there was some weird uh thing something couldn't be conclusive there was an evidence chain of that they said let's not muddy the waters yeah you're dead to rights these are slam dunks let's just go forward let's not fuck around and have them muddy everything up here. So November 1990 is Faye's trial. She just claims Ray killed everyone. She didn't know a goddamn thing about it. She wasn't involved at all.

The court rejects an offer of proof during the guilt phase, during the regular trial. They offer a test. The defense wants the testimony of a psychologist, a Marilyn Hutchinson, to say that the defendant here, Faye, in this case, was suffering from battered wife syndrome or battered spouse syndrome at the time of the murders. The judge will not allow this defense for some reason. Judge will not allow that defense. They do not allow this psychologist to testify at all. She's allowed to. She claims that she had no involvement through the whole case uh she said that she was an abused wife she said she put her head down and told her

told uh and did what she was supposed to do but they didn't allow it as like her primary defense which is a certain thing uh she said that she carried bruises and broken broken bones uh for her whole life from this whole thing she spent uh basically her whole life doing everything to avoid ray's wrath uh she said that her greatest crime was not asking questions uh the prosecutor disagreed they made a big prosecutor makes a big speech about the x's on the notes and they're saying he says quote do you know what i think folks i think x means they're dead i think x marks the spot oh my goodness yeah that's a pretty cementing thing to the jury yeah uh yeah uh the they end up there ends up being things in

appeal over that statement by the way they're saying that's too much because it was just delicious yeah they asked he he didn't do like a uh you know in closing arguments say that that's fine if you want to say that he did it like like while someone was testifying he like did a turn to the jury went i think x marks the spot i think x means they're dead that's just a statement of what you believe to be fact that's not a question or an answer that's awesome anything like that it's not part of the conversation they also have statements of uncharged crimes because there's more people that are gone there's missing people there's missing people like mccormick says that uh

there was a guy named uh transient as he calls it named rc he saw him leave the springfield mission with ray and then he said rc was never seen again uh they said there was uh another one here uh paul cowart or that was one of the ones that was found but there was another guy who got it who was gone and never seen again uh who was they didn't know his name so there's this is the tip of the iceberg is what they're saying this was his one spot understood this was his mid-80s burial ground basically is where they found who who knows what uh you know how much is out there now during the guilt phase the prosecutor really throws down some stank language here on her he says he makes her sound like she is ted bundy here she He says, quote, this is his closing.

There has never been a case in the history of our state that is stronger for first degree murder as far as deliberation. Never before in the modern history of our state of Missouri have we had such a vile, horrible chain of crimes. There has never, ever, ever been a more complete and utter disregard for the sanctity of human life as in this case of Faye Copeland. Then later on, he says that he had been watching TV last night and watching talks all about gang murders and street gangs in Los Angeles. This was around the time of the riots and all that sort of thing. He says, quote, It's the same thing right here in our backyards he compared innocent blameless victims being murdered for profit completely innocent persons being murdered because of their potential witness capabilities which technically is true yeah but then the jury

looks over and sees an 80 year old lady sitting there with like an abused 80 year old woman which and she throws up west side that's what i mean she's like making fucking blood spelling blood out with her fucking hands and they're like she's a blood really she's wearing a blue dress smiles and she's got a grill in oh huge big time so uh uh they end up later on saying that these are uh comments were in proper comparison and appeal and all that sort of thing it's a bit outlandish the jury takes two and a half hours only before they convict fay wow that that note was too much they saw that and they went that's some hard real evidence on that that is hard for me to put in about my back pocket yeah so uh they don't do that she's charged with all these murders she goes down uh now ray at this point is undergoing mental tests and he's scheduled to go on trial that's why his trials later they

were trying also they were trying to basically get fay at any point in the trial to go never mind i'll turn on ray and say everything and she never did she was just like i didn't do nothing it's a hell of a wife she said it's all ray it's all ray it's all ray but she never was like i'll plead god she never offered a plea yeah she would just say i didn't have nothing to do with it yeah if they offered her maybe immunity she would have done that but she just help and kill these people you're not gonna offer her immunity so it's this sort of thing here and they also said like a couple of them in a couple of the cases he would have needed help and they think that she helped him to like actually physically remove bodies and that sort of shit like muck the farm there she's she's that's

her for yeah she was doing a different version of mucking uh so uh people uh when they when they read the verdict she was sobbing and she said out loud quote i've never done nothing oh which is very sad uh the uh assistant attorney general here said quote the families of the victims and the citizens of our state have received partial vindication over this uh so during the penalty phase now the defense calls in the psychologist saying that she was a battered spouse and all that sort of thing uh this was evidence offered a mitigation of the punishment uh the state also called people saying she somehow wasn't a battered spouse i think it's pretty safe to say she was a battered spouse i

would go ahead and she got the shit beat out of her but she also made some but she also did this that's what i mean she you can be they're not mutually exclusive yeah you can be a battered spouse and help with murder and still participate and still yeah not not do the right thing here uh so yeah it was all the jury the jurors afterwards said it was the handwriting of the note they said that's just that's cold-blooded she's making a list and fucking checking it twice. Like, this is, thanks, Mrs. Claus. She receives the death sentence. You, ma'am, may fuck off, I guess. Kind of. An old lady?

That's so weird, isn't it? I mean, Jesus Christ, man. She receives the death sentence. Wow. I don't even know what the fuck to say about that. Good grief. She also is sentenced to life in prison without parole for the fifth murder conviction that's just in case that gets overturned yeah you still got a fifth one there

uh now after the conviction uh uh the the sheriff asked ray what he thought about his wife getting the death penalty his answer was quote well those things happen to some people you know what that was his quote not like oh no or blah blah goes well that happens to some people you know what that was his quote not like oh no or blah blah goes well that happens to some people not to me hopefully though ray that's your wife man ray's a cold motherfucker uh he's super cold here the when this happens apparently the copeland's children billy ray and bobby jean and peggy sue and betty ray and all these fucking alvia apparently their children are now harassed at school. People call up their house and leave like fucking messages about them calling their parents murderers.

There is a country song called Digging Up Bones, apparently, where they leave that on their answering machine. Oh, Jesus. That's a Randy Travis song. There you go. I didn't know that but thank you for the fill and there's people going around to travis out there i know it uh so they're on there it's about a breakup though it's not even close to this it's they were just close they were just they saw the title and they were like that sounds like that's right just loop it where he says that's

what he did they were just they would play that on the answering machine just loop that i don't think they would play the the verse where he's talking about whatever the fuck he's talking about. Standing in an empty house looking at pictures of her digging up bones. Whatever, being boring. So apparently the grandchildren were teased at school and taunted. It's just become horrible. Even Al. And basically they said their families were ostracized from the communities around there for this uh your grandparents are are monsters a lot of public a lot of public

attention over this too in a small community here uh march 1991 ray goes on trial for all five murders uh there's no questioning his guilt he's obviously fucking guilty everything that happened is there's irrefutable evidence on this here uh ray it was only ray's gun he's the one on the property the note the thing they convicted fay the wife is wrapped up you're fucked you're for sure going you're going down here he's found guilty on all five counts of murder and uh all the other related charges that go along with that uh he is convicted uh after the conviction they asked him what his thoughts were on and he said i'm okay so that's interesting what i'm okay he's good uh sometimes things happen like that

to people things happen to some people i guess me so let's find out i'm good sentencing for ray uh this goes pretty easy the jury comes back extremely quick and recommends uh you sir man fuck off yeah death sentence for ray which i mean he if anybody deserves it he probably does but he's like 90 it doesn't matter just push him over right you know that's what we've said just kind of boo yeah just jump out at him you know uh it's his own children celebrated his death sentence wow his own children they said it was to serve for the horrible way he treated everyone around him and for the horrible acts he committed simply to make extra money without having to do extra work. That's his daughter said that about him. Wow.

Jesus Christ. Now, 1993, Ray is 78 years old. He's at the Potosi Correctional Center awaiting execution here. He dies. Of course. That's what happens in prison. He comes in, just drops dead. He's 78, drops dead, natural causes.

That quick? Just dead. That's it. Goes in there. Didn't even have to do the time. Just sometimes they happen to some people. 1995, a petition with 3,000 signatures goes to the governor stating that faye copeland would not be a threat to society if she's released which i don't think faye is going to go out and

hunt people down to murder i feel like unless ray is forcing her to do things i feel like she's going to go watch fucking wheel of fortune at night and play bingo or whatever that's like 30 towns that's what i mean that's like a lot. The county, I think, has 6,000 people. Wow. So, I mean, that's half the county they got to do that. 1999, there's another petition claiming that Copeland had no problems in prison. She's old and she should be released and brought home. There's a big petition for that.

There's a hearing on this. Her conviction is upheld, but her death sentence is vacated. Oh. So they're not going to execute an 85-year-old woman. So they gave her life. She was the oldest woman on death row in America, which probably in the world. I don't think in any other fucking society you'd put an 85-year-old woman on the fucking death row. Even in China, where they kill everybody, I feel like if you're elderly, they're like, have some respect.

We're not going to kill an old woman. I think the only place that would probably do this is Russia or North Korea. Oh, yeah. They'll kill you in a second. But they're not even like, that's like, they're a fucking disaster. They're fairly civilized. Yeah. Well, North Korea especially. We don't even, and I feel bad for those people, too.

Anyway, let's move on. All right. So this is depressing enough. Missouri is depressing enough without getting into fucking Chechnya and fucking Pyongyang here. So anyway, the prosecutor is just arguing against this still. He still wants her to be, you know, put on death row or at least still in prison forever. Her sentence is commuted to life in prison. August of 2002, Faye has a stroke.

It leaves her paralyzed on her left side and unable to speak. Good Christ. A couple of weeks after this, she is paroled to a nursing home in her hometown because she's paralyzed and fucking 85 years old. And she's going to die. Probably not a threat to anybody at this point in time. December 30 plus, that also takes her off the to anybody at this point in time uh december 30 plus that also takes her off the state tab at that point uh december 31st 2003 uh new year's eve faye uh dies at the morningside center nursing home uh from uh natural causes she's 82 years old uh in the comment

section this is when it gets fun uh about these about. Okay, there's a wow an article about her death and let's start the fireworks. I can't wait. This is a 2004. This is Heather Copeland is the the writer of this first one who is family. She says quote. This is all caps. By the way, these people are my great grandparents. I live in Chillicothe and just recently buried my grandmother who died of old age diabetes

and pneumonia. I still love her. And to this day, I still believe that she had nothing to do with it. Six exclamation points. Not one other bit of punctuation. Nothing. I'm sorry. There's a comma between old age and diabetes.

There's a comma there. There is no other periods or commas or anything. Just a long run on exclamation. And all caps. Yeah. Which sounds insane right away. long run on exclamation and all caps yeah which sounds insane right away uh this is followed by uh heather harvey who then says ray and faye coblin murdered my uncle exclamation point now we have a debate yeah all right now it's a little badminton match now we're going back and

forth we've got internet jerry springer going on on the comment section of a news article of a dead woman of a dead elderly woman so now mike oxbig jumps into the conversation with quote fuck you bitch they murder it's a good start this is now that now it's really the decorum is wonderful here uh they murdered those people and one of them uh being my uncle she probably seduced some of them there are probably more murders so shut the fuck up and probably is probably it's not probably uh andy called her a whore nice dude no exclamation points here though i will say he proper there's p there's commas and periods and so i give him that but misspelled as fuck of course oh yeah yeah totally uh next is tony with an eye uh she comes in and says quote

to heather and mike i will be asking for both of you to be placed on a prayer list. So she's going to settle everything here. Heather, I'm sure you loved your grandmother very much. But in reality, you're not doing her justice by denying her participation in the murders of so many people. You are harming and hurting yourself and your family and your friends and the living and dead victims of such a senseless crime. So just whatever. I was there when she read that last sentence is mike for your own health and the health of your family and friends please let the

anger go yeah so she's trying to smooth it over next comes brett uh brett says dear heather uh dear heather mike and copeland in the blood which is uh a book that's coming out quote i'm writing a piece on the copeland case for a magazine in the uk to tie in with a new comic book what the fuck kind of comic book is that um i would any of you like to have your say post here or we can arrange something kind regards brett uh brent callwood or brett callwood okay uh next is quote superhero book of like wrangling cattle thieves right cattle thieves and murdering drifters i don't understand this is nuts next is hey my uncle was tomic part thomas park he was on the list that faye wrote in her handwriting with

the x by his name he's never been heard from since night february of 1989 gee wonder what happened to him. He was murdered by Ray and Faye Copeland. She is guilty. Face it. No way she didn't know what she was doing. So this is one of the people who was on the list who actually disappeared and didn't have an ex. And then here, the last one is Andrew.

Quote, well, Faye did nothing because my parents and grandma was her counselor in prison, and she said that she did nothing, and if if you disagree i will kick your ass all over this town and ray on the other hand did kill them but there is nothing you can do about it now so leave it alone and let them rest in peace assholes not one drop of punctuation in that entire fucking thing nothing nothing what a dill hole there is i apologize there's an ellipses after i will kick your ass all over this town really so he breaks up his thoughts of fuck you and raise a murder dot dot dot good for him so there's been a bunch of mediocre books based on this because it's an insane case but i i've never heard of this story and it's it's absolutely batshit i can't get enough of the people around it that's what i mean there's all sorts of uh cattle thievery it's it's fucking nuts that's the case that is mooresville missouri that's the copelands

that is how you i don't know scam cattle and murder drifters i guess holy shit that's that if you like that story please the best thing for you to do is to go to itunes and give us five stars there that would be so helpful doesn't matter what you say it's not for our ego just tell us uh your favorite cloud formations we always like to hear that that's always a nice one if you want to do more like this list of producers that we have coming up of our favorite goddamn people in the face of the earth that keep this show actually happening yeah uh you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to paypal where you can make a one-time donation using your uh our email address crime and sports at gmail to paypal where you can make a one-time donation using your uh our

email address crime and sports at gmail.com yes if you want to get a hold of the show again no problem we are at murder small on twitter we are facebook.com slash small town pod on instagram we're uh small town murder on instagram we're small town murder and if you want to email us once again crime and sports at gmail.com can do that. And we have an amazing list of people. Please, Jimmy, tell us, because I want you to sing it from the rooftops. This list of people hit us with it now, if you would. First, we have Susan Deguia. I think that's how you pronounce it.

Degua. She she donated. Yes, absolutely. She donated on Patreon and PayPal. Whoa, thank you. Ridiculous. That's incredible. Thank you so much, Susan, for all your help.

Alex Marchi, who came to all those shows. Oh, that's awesome, dude. The guy's amazing. He donated a nice amount. Three shows he came to. Thank you so much, Alex. That was sweet of you. Awesome.

Susan Randlett also gave us a nice donation. And, of course, Christiane Costali. Those are our executive producers this week who come through. Thank you. Goddamn, every week there's somebody that really saves our asses. I have no idea how much it is. Isn't it bananas how being podcasters we still have people that legitimately save our ass every week? You do.

You do. That's the crazy part. Thank you. That's why we do this at the end because we really want – we're not just saying it to like, oh, we got to say the people's name. We really want to say thank you. We really want you to know that you did this for us. From the bottom of our hearts. Yeah. We we love this is our favorite part of the show dana bartram elizabeth wolfinger katie polis uh jenna edwards chandelle whitney uh she has a daughter over there

in korea uh serving that's right yeah good for you uh steven scattergood uh natalia drew emmy dumont to cody everett uh max joshua rost olsen congratulations she said yes she said yes good Natalia Drew, Emmy Dumont, Cody Everett, Max Joshua, Ross Olson. Congratulations. She said yes. Good for you, buddy. Good for you. Mackenzie Boland, Victoria Jackman, Jake Labier, Cappy with no last name, Sarah Willis, Mary Fouse, Olivia Rowling, Jade Hughes, Gresham Fenton, David Wittes.

Yes, Wittes. Mariela Rosas. She came to a show. Thank you, Mariela. She actually came to Sacramento, I believe. Under the Sea Fabrics. I'm not sure what it is, but find it and donate. Buy her shit.

Yeah, buy her waterproof fabric. Whatever it is. Not waterproof, but it's called Under the Sea Fabrics. We don't know. They might be waterproof fabrics. We have no idea, but probably not. It's mermaid shit. I'm sure.

Yeah, buy mermaid clothes from her. Do it. Or whatever they sell. I forget what Gygax is. Ah, damn it. It was pointed out to me what it was And I have forgotten but they donated again So thank you

Ted Cyrus Every week the guy comes through Chelsea Gurleyman Or Gurleyman Hey you know what Good for you We love you Craig Ventura

Gretchen Oswald Lily Hill Hill, Kate Myers, Abigail Gonder, Tracy Tilly, Nina Tedeschi, Laura Kopp. She's the lawyer down in Texas that sent us shirts and such. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Laura. Jessica Valley, Jeffrey Geiler, Stacy Lanktoe, L-A-n-c uh lanktoe uh chris england sarah sarah fletcher bradley kouse amber wolf uh curtis uh vacheck or vacheck or valic that might be an l

hey i think it's a c i think i what i think i fucked just bad handwriting probably not bad pronunciation uh uh ariah strauss josh jones j Hartman, Molly Glenn, Ian McKay, Cassandra Meyer, Stacy Ridgson, Ridgson Beck, Ridgson Beak, Ridgson Beak. Ah, there we go. Ridgson Beak? No. I don't. Andrea M. Schneider.

She just gave up. Moving on. He gave up. Bail. Bail. Bail. Sarah Toasty, Andrew Wellmers, Richard DeGraw. Yes, DeGraw. Yeah. Karen Lemes's Lemias. Lemias. Lemias. Lemias. Lemias. That's it. Yes. I think it's Lemias. By the way,

Bruno San Martino died today. There's nothing to do with this, but 82 years old. I love Bruno. He's from the same place my grandmother's from. Is that right? Move on. That's fantastic. Kyle Juarez, Courtney Luthandongus. Dongs. No, it's not Dongs. Luthandongs. Luthandongus. There you go. That's it.

Don't call her Luthandongs. It's not Dongs. There's an E in there. All right. Marianne Hender, James Aselia. He comes through every week also. Thanks, James. Thank you.

Jordan Selmer, Emily Shit. Emily Shit. Emily Shit. No. Thanks, Emily Shit. through every week also thanks james thank you jordan selmer uh emily shit uh emily sure emily shit no thanks emily shit we appreciate everything you do you're fantastic all of your shit is highly appreciated sheer horse that's it emily sheer horse uh jackie feagle uh taylor stapleton vanessa lafoya sarah gilbo every goddamn thank you so much fantastic you seriously sandy marshall true crime clothing i don't know what that is go find them uh michelle jolly uh over in uh i believe that's australia paul roost who makes those fucking memes the guy is fantastic lk bar um lk bar uh lk bar on new tay uh okay i believe it sarah peterson i'll buy that jacob fucking no jacob herbagust uh herbagust uh no her we we

we he brackets what the fuck is going i don't know i don't know what I'm doing. Tom Gallagher, Heather Chamness, Taryn Winnie, Rondell Merrill, Sarah LaPlante, Jennifer Ott, Jessica Hartke, Jason in New Mexico, Laurie Murphy, Austin Sun, Mindy Beganate, Gail Nelson, and the last page. My fuck, this is amazing. You guys are fantastic. Thank you so much. Gail Nelson. And the last page. My fuck, this is amazing. You guys are fantastic. Thank you so much. Seriously, guys, this is fantastic. Thank you. Elaine Martin. Joe Bescombe.

Tom Berry. Matthew Pauke. Pauke. Shit. Pauke. That's it. Sure. No, it's not.

P. Daphne Cohen. Victoria. This one is a mother. Victoria Kiviat is a mother. Victoria Kaviatzki. No. Victoria Cavatelli. Move on. I think it's Kaviatzki.

No. No. Thank you. It's K-V-I-A-T-K-V-O. No. What? It's a lot. I think it's Kaviatzki.

Okay. I think so. I'll buy that. You have confused me thoroughly. Good. Good. Now we're on the same page. Bianca Elena, Rob Maggs, Miller Hines, The Curiosity Report.

I think that's a podcast. I'm pretty sure of it. Megan Guza, Nate the Ape, Betty, Paul Saunders, Christine Torrance. Oh, damn it. Christine Torrance. You got a roll there. You got like three right. Adrian and Robert Castorina.

TJ Shaw. Braylon Rogers. Lori with no last name. Jennifer Slack. Michael with no last name. Abby Sten. Chanel Renee Peguera. Yes.

Chanel Renee Peguera. Nailed it. I think so. Stephanie Hudson. Jeanette Craig. Travis Wood. Kathleen Thill is sticking around. Thank you, Kathy.

I appreciate it. You're awesome. Sun City. She sticking around. Thank you, Kathy. I appreciate it. You're awesome. Sun City. She's wonderful. Brad Gillis, Josh Thurber, Patrick Hooten, Shawna Rogers, Anne-Marie Hoyt, Brianna Callinan, Jamie Collins, Alexandria Gonzalez, Kathy G1. I think that's right. I don't know.

Let's hope so. Silk BH. I don't know. I don't know what that is or silky bh uh john craven uh alexia malloy um tom tommy craig gretchen uh pisker pisher pisher okay i think so sure uh connie and sean young katie potter aaron anderson lindsey day craig mcgeachin uh cat rosenblatt aaron anderson i've said, Nathan Abbott, Dave Hartman, Chuck Brookman, The Awkward Human, John Curry, Joseph Stafford, and Jill Aspermonte.

Oh, that was nice. You closed strong, I think, on that one. Good job. Thank you guys so much. Yeah. Honestly. That's real. We can't do the goddamn show without you.

No, we can't. Seriously. We really, really can't. That's and if any of all of you came to live shows, I don't know what to say. Thank you so much. It was amazing to meet you. Yeah, we can't name everybody. Obviously, it comes to a live show, but it is terrific to meet you.

Like Sacramento. I literally I think 95% of the room stayed. They said like 10 people left. It sure felt like it out of the entire room out of 250 people people which was amazing uh and we were so thrilled to do it we hung out with you guys we just we we love it so much we can't we can't tell you how uh just humbled that sounds stupid but it's true we don't understand why everybody's supporting us and so that's what i mean it's not like we're like i'm humbled by being put on the supreme court like you know you did some good shit like we're we don't understand it still so like we said two years ago no one would scalp tickets to do any see anything we did we couldn't get people to

come for free right being put on a list right to anything we ever did so seeing tickets go for three times their value on it's wild we're sorry you have to do that we really are so we don't want anybody to have to pay more but we couldn't we couldn't do two shows there scheduling wise with the theater we wanted it to be in one nice show in a theater and it's a big theater too so we didn't know if we could sell any more than that it's an experiment and it's going pretty well right uh so get your tickets now do that please tomorrow portland uh see you tomorrow portland and what if one of these people if they didn't get to see you at a live show wanted to say hi to you in another way how would they do that if you want to find me on social media you can find me at wisman sucks

on twitter instagram and snapchat or jimmy wisman on facebook i appreciate everything you guys say to me thanks for being around uh it's it's it's good to have you guys along with us uh definitely you can reach me at jimmy p is funny on the regular sites there or you can uh find me using my last name you got to copy and spell it or just copy and paste it. You're not going to spell it right. Yeah. Let's be honest. It's just just copy and paste it. Don't be a dick. I couldn't find you. That's because you didn't

you didn't spell my name right. There's an eye in there. Don't fuck with it. There's a guy with a YouTube video that explains the whole thing. If you really want to try it, it's very entertaining. But other than that, that's about it for us this week. We're excited and we can't wait to be back next week and each and every week and until next week it's been our pleasure bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.