Small Town Murder - #71 - An Extra Terrible Person in Kittery, Maine

Episode Date: May 30, 2018

This week, we check out the town of Kittery, Maine, where a man was on the run for the most unspeakable crimes imaginable, only to come across another potential victim. It's a brazen series of extra heinous attacks, leading to a legal battle that goes all the way to the Supreme Court! Hilarious!! Along the way, we find out just how many outlet malls one town can have, if finding out that you're adopted can lead to violence, and if lethal injection is too violent for triple murderer!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the shore town of Kittery, Maine, where a man on the run for unspeakable crimes adds another to his tally.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We're excited.

We can't wait, which is an odd thing to say, I guess, about murder. But still, what the hell. We're going to have a good time here anyway, so it doesn't matter. Thank you for joining us once again. Thank you, most of all, to everyone who gave us iTunes reviews this week. Thank you so much, guys. We've said it before and we say it again. It sounds repetitive.

I understand. I get it. But there's new people listening. So first-time listeners, long-time listeners, if you haven't done it yet, please go on iTunes. Give us a five-star review. It helps a ton. I don't know why iTunes is like that. I don't.

It's not our fault. It's iTunes and their funky algorithm. It's not for our egos. We don't care. We wouldn't care either way, but it helps on the business end. It helps drive you up the charts. So if you could, please go over to iTunes. Give us five stars.

It doesn't matter what you say. Say something. I don't care what you say. What did we say last time? Tell us your first car because I want to hear that. That's kind of fun. I like hearing people's first cars. I like fuck Steve Jobs, but you've got to say fuck on iTunes.

Exactly. Your favorite sandwich and how you construct it, that sort of thing. Whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Do that. If you want to be an even bigger superstar, one of our heroes, our hero producers that we have at the end, they really are the heroes of this show. They really are. It keeps it going and

it's really the heart and soul of what drives this thing along. Thank you guys so much for everybody who has gone to patreon.com slash crimeinsports and made a donation. Do that if you would. If you want to make a donation, you can do that there. Or if you want to make a one-time donation, you can do that over at PayPal

using our email address, which is crimeandsports at gmail.com. If you want to get a hold of the show any other way, too, you can do at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Murder Small on Twitter, Small Town Pod on Facebook. Just search for Small Town Murder and find us there. No big deal there. I have to do the disclaimer at this point, obviously. That's a bummer, but we have to do it.

And we have to do it for a reason. And we have to do it for people like that guy who wrote that article about the Anniston, Alabama episode. This is the reason we do this. That guy should have stopped here and not gone forward because he doesn't get it, obviously. And it's weird that it's strange. When you do a show about murder that's a comedy show, it sounds normal to us. We're all here. It's like, yeah, you do that and it's funny and you go about

your day. But when it's odd when people from the outside who don't really get what we're doing, like the WGN interviewer, this guy, when it hits the light of day, they're just like, I don't understand why you're making jokes about murder. But this is a comedy podcast. It is a comedy podcast.

If you don't think that comedy and true crime belong together, you shouldn't be here. Take a walk. We don't want you. You're not going to like us, and we're not going to like you. So let's end it now before it gets ugly. Let's put it that way. Or you really enjoy writing shit rag articles, and you need publicity. And you need some sort of something, so you try to latch on to something with more popularity than you and your stupid

SoundCloud page with your guitar riffs. And people that'll rip you publicly. This is what I'm talking about. I guarantee that's the most viewed article he has. Probably. Now, like we said, if you don't think that that's for you, then you shouldn't be listening. You should go away. You should.

Don't let the door hit you. Have fun. We appreciate the effort, but you know what? It's not for you. It's not. There are jokes. We make jokes. We're comedians. That's what we do. We're doing the show because it's a comedy show. We do make jokes about horrible things. That's a fact also. What we try not to do is

to make jokes about the victims or about the victims' families. That's what we do because we're assholes. Yes, we are assholes. We are. We realize that. We don't disagree with you there. But we're not're not scumbags. True. That's the thing. We're not going to go on here and make fun of dead people or make fun of sexual assaults or make fun of things like that. That's not how we do this. And if you think that's how we do this, then you're wrong. Right. And if you've no matter what you hear, you still think that then you're an asshole. You're not only wrong. You're a jerk. You're worse than we are. You're worse than we are. You are a scumbag at that

point because then you're just lying and being you're not being truthful. You're a jerk. You're worse than we are. You're worse than we are. You are a scumbag at that point because then you're just lying. You're not being truthful. You're not representing it to what it actually is. So that said, thank you so much for joining us, everyone who's still here. Anyone who left, good. Have a good one, guys. And those of us who are here, we're going to have a good time because you know what it's time for? What it's time to do?

It's time to shut up. Shut up? Give you murder. That's right. Damn it. That's what we're going to do right now. I just, I can't imagine listening to or reading something and then taking umbrage with the way they packaged something that I got for free, A, and B, people took a lot of time

to make. That's the other thing. Go fuck yourself, man. I didn't read your articles. That guy said my research was lazy, which is like, dude, say what you want, but I haven't slept. And there's a reason for that. You know what I mean? Never mind.

It affects my personal life in a lot of ways that are not great. Okay? We'll put it that way. So I don't need your bullshit. It's just obvious. You don't have the balls to get out of your little fucking town and go out and do something with your life. It's just obvious he didn't listen very well because we swear like frat boys fueled on

monster drink. Never stepped foot in college, asshole. I don't even have a high school diploma. So eat dicks, number one. You can call me dumb. You can call me uneducated. That's fine. But don't call me fucking lazy and don't call me a frat boy.

And I won't ever drink monster.'ve never i hate energy drinks go fuck yourself they taste like crushed up sweet tarts and i'm not drinking them they make you lose your teeth so yeah i'm sorry to take extra time for this sort of thing but you know what when somebody doesn't have the balls to do anything when their dreams clearly haven't come true for them and they need to snipe at others for their shit. It's not like the guy who wrote for Entertainment Weekly. He's a writer who lives in Anniston, Alabama, putting his guitar riffs on SoundCloud. So obviously he is not fulfilled to what he needs to be.

So I get why you need to snipe at others. Enjoy your shit life in your shit town, asshole. Have a good one. 60% of his SoundCloud is remixes of the fight song for his college. Fuck him. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's leave this bullshit behind.

Let's get the fuck out of here. Go on a trip. We're going on a trip all the way to Maine. We were in California last week. For the stretches of America. We're going north to south, coast to coast, all the way over there where we're going across as far. That's a seven-hour flight. It's a long-ass flight.

It's Kittery, Maine is the name of it. K-I-T-T-E-R-Y, Maine. I'm sure that that's not how you pronounce it. I'm sure it's Kiteri or some horse shit like that. Never been? But it's fucking Kittery. Don't give a shit. That's right.

Kittery, Maine. Maine's a weird place, by the way. I mean, there's a reason why all the Stephen King novels take place there. Maine's an odd – it's its own universe, Maine. It's only got – I'm trying to picture it, but it's a peninsula. It's like the North Florida. Yeah. It's Canada's Florida.

Right, right, right. There's only that little piece that's attached to – what is that? Vermont? New Hampshire. New Hampshire. That's what I meant. Vermont's on the left. New Hampshire on the right. There's only that little piece that's attached to, what is that, Vermont? New Hampshire. New Hampshire, that's what I meant. Vermont's on the left, New Hampshire on the right. Yes. Jimmy is a geography whiz. But that's all that touches land. Everything

else is all touching water. And Canada. Culturally, it's just a weird place, man. It's very strange. They have like their, and they are proud of that. They have their own thing up there. They don't consider themselves, I mean, technically they're part of New England, but if you said you're just like Boston, they would be mad at that. They don't want to hear that.

They're not like New York. They're not like New Hampshire. They're not like – they're their own thing. They're Mainers, and they call it their – That's what they call themselves? I believe so. And it's all they're about is Maine. So it's a very weird place.

This is the southern, southern tip of Maine. It's a little tip that comes. It's just like a little tiny panhandle. It's a little tiny one. Like, it's a big, giant pan with a little tiny thumbnail-sized panhandle coming off it. So this place— Panhandle, nonetheless. This place touches the New Hampshire area.

Yeah, and it goes out into the ocean, that sort of thing. It's 50 minutes to Portland, Maine. It's about an hour and five minutes to Boston from here. So it's all – I mean, when you're up there, it feels like you're in this other planet, but you're pretty close to everything still. And it's 40 minutes to Old Orchard Beach, which was the last one we did in Maine. Oh, goodness. Where the guy raped people in sheds. What a mess that was, Old Orchard Beach here.

It's in York County. Zip code 03904. Area code 207. Now, it's going to sound, when I give you the land mass here, it's going to sound like a lot. It's 75 square miles. Holy shit. Sounds enormous, but it's really only about 17 miles because 57 and a half miles of this are on water. Wow.

So this town claims a shitload of water. Why do they do that? I have no idea. It's more than most towns claim. They're like, we'll take it halfway to England. You know, thinking about... We own all the fish halfway to England. All of it.

Thinking about that area... Fuck you, Greenland. It's ours. Sorry. That area of the country, there's a lot of rocky areas right off the coast. So if barges crash and shit, I guess they claim all the ship wreckage. That's ours. It's all ours.

That's ours now. We take the wreckage, the fish. Everything out there is all ours. Those nets you people leave behind, ours. Ours. I'm keeping it. They must do that to own the lobster or something, right? Maybe.

They're like, maybe. So they could be Maine Lobster maybe still. So they can keep it. Because that's like a brand. That's like a name. I don't know if it's like a brand, but it's like a Maine Lobster maybe still so they can, because that's just, it's like a brand. That's like a name. Oh, I got you. I don't know if it's like a brand, but it's like a Maine Lobster's a thing. You know what I mean?

So maybe, maybe that's. I could see that. It probably has to do something with commerce, I would imagine. It's something with fishing or at least nautical shit. Probably. It's got to be. Probably right there. They have a motto here, which is interesting.

The motto is, because it's right kind of at the tip of Maine there, the motto is, quote, gateway to Maine. Oh. Yeah. Okay. And Canada. Yeah. It's more like the exit of the United States. It's more like what it is, I think.

Or the exit of Maine, one of the two. Maine's butthole. If Maine were to poop, it would be out of Kittery. Now, we're besmirching Kittery here, but this is not really Kittery's fault, this whole thing. Kittery, as we get into the story, Kittery didn't cause this panhandle behavior. This was caused somewhere else. So we'll get to it, though. They imported that.

Kittery is an unfortunate byproduct of it. It's like some of these cases, and we do all these different cases, and some of them are like a guy that's born and bred in a town and like everybody knows him and he's whatever. It can be either the town fuck-up or the town pastor. We've had both of them. And, you know, they'll end up killing people. Which I mean, is there really should we discern between those two?

Yeah, it happens. Then we have the cases where like people are, you know, they move to a town from another place and they're there for a couple of years or whatever. Something happens. And then we have like today where it's like a small town is just – has no say in it whatsoever as we'll find out. It just kind of happens to them. Yeah, we'll get to it here.

Now, it started out as an English settlement around the natural harbor of the river and the ocean and all that, the estuary around there. This was about 1623. My Christ. They started hanging out here. So this is – When did they land here? What was the – Was it 1492?

That was that long ago? 1492 was Columbus, yeah. That was when he set sail though, right? Yeah. So he landed probably like 1600. he landed in the islands anyway he didn't land in bermuda or some shit yeah when they came over here that's up there man i was i mean i don't even know when plymouth rock happened i just i fucking don't care i think that's what it is i think i don't care i think if you cared you would have found out i'm sure that i heard it at some point and i was like oh cool that's what it is i think i don't care i think if you cared you would have found out i'm sure that i heard it at some point and i was like oh cool that's information i don't need

why are we i almost asked why are we taught that but then i then it was answered when i when i thought well you don't know it right now yeah this is why this is why they teach you seventh grade comes back to haunt you after a while. Like, damn it, why didn't I pay attention to that? Why didn't I hang on to that? Why did I keep asking that kid next to me for Skittles? I was like, Skittles weren't going to make me smarter. They're not going to. Damn it.

Ah, ridiculous. When did they land? You're very distracted in seventh grade. Put it that way. 1492, he set sail. He landed down there probably around 1500, right? I imagine it takes about eight years. It took eight years to cross the Atlantic from Spain.

That would have been quite the journey, though. I'm sure it did. Eight years at sea. The pictures of Columbus would have been much different. He would have had a peg leg and an eye patch and all that sort of thing. Half of him eaten by somebody on the boat. Something here. I imagine it was probably in the 1600s.

Yes, 1500s. I mean, in the 1500s in Plymouth Rock. Yeah, so it was protected by forts, basically, because they had to – back then you landed, you set up a little community. You had to set up a fort because you wanted to keep the Native Americans away because you're on their land. Right. So they can get pissed about that. Right, they don't want you here. Yeah, you showed up and started building shit, and they're like, wasn't that Bob's house? Right. I they can get pissed about that. Right. They don't want you here. You showed up and started building shit.

And they're like, wasn't that Bob's house? Right. I think that's Bob's whole property there. We should probably kill these people. And how are they? What are the, they're wearing like plants and stuff. Like, you know, you're wearing cotton. How did you even make that happen?

Yeah. I wouldn't be trusting. I still have animal skin on me. I wouldn't trust that either. I'd kill them too. So it was by 1632, they had built the fort here on the New Hampshire side of the river because that's where the border goes. These defensive works later became Fort McClary in Kittery Point, which is the main side of the whole thing here. It was incorporated from a Piscataquis plantation.

Yeah. Wow. Plantation had the whole town, apparently, in 1652 as the first town in the district of Maine. So this was the first town in Maine. Kittery is. Yes, Kittery is the oldest town in Maine. Number one. Number one.

Gotcha. York became a town two days later. So they just beat York out. Imagine the jockeying for position there. They're filing their shit. They're filling it out right now. We got to hurry. Let's go.

Come on, man. No. Push it through. Dude, let's go. Fuck, they're going to be done soon. I know this is a lot of paperwork, but we really, come on, guys. Let's get some extra people on this. I feel like here.

It was, its claim is the oldest incorporated town in Maine. It was named after the birthplace of one of the founders, who was a guy named Alexander Shapley, from his manor of Kittery Court at Kingsware in Devon, England. Okay. So in England, how do you Kittery Court? I have no idea. From his manor of Kittery Court at Kingsware. Apparently, the properties have names, and apparently there's a property in the property.

Okay. Because they each have different— Oh, his manor— This is some big douchebag bullshit here is what I'm talking about. He named it after his manor, which was in here. Got it. Manor, M-A-N-O-R. Yes.

I'm thinking when you say manor of Kittery Court, I'm like, how does he— How does that work? He's really great at it? No. What the fuck? He arrived in 1635 on the ship Benediction, which he co-owned with another settler, a guy named Captain Francis Chompernown, who was a cousin of Sir Ferdinando Gorgias, who was a lord proprietor of Maine.

Oh. This is some real big shit right here. This is crazy. proprietor of Maine. Oh. This is some real beligged shit right here. This is crazy. These are guys with lots of powdered makeup and wigs, and their pants were up to their knees.

Yeah. This is ridiculous. They're in the captain's quarters of that boat because their face will melt by the sea spray. We're in Amadeus is what I'm talking about right now. These guys and the Pepperell family established fisheries off the shore of the islands here where they would catch the fish and salt them and then export them back to Europe. So that's what they do because you couldn't really have fresh fish back then because there was no way to travel.

So unless you lived right by the water, there was no such thing as fresh fish. But isn't England an island? Yeah, but they don't have all the fish we have. Oh, I got you. Yeah, that's a good point. Different fish. Very good point, James. We'd send our shit over there.

I assume Maine lobsters. Actually, no, because lobsters were thought of as shit back then. Were they really? Oh, those idiots. Yeah, down south they used to feed lobsters to slaves. Wow. Yeah, because they were like, nobody wants this garbage. What the fuck?

It's the cockroach of the ocean. Wow. Oh, that'd be great. I mean, apart from all the other horrible shit. That's not worth it, I don't think, Jimmy. Yeah, no, no. Hey, free lobster. No.

Not worth it. But I'm just saying when you get to eat. Was that the argument for pro-slavery? Hey, they're getting lobster. We feed them mains. I mean, come on, man. Get the fuck out of here. That's amazing.

So that's bad. So they're feeding them like they got mackerel over there, I imagine, or some shitty. Some shit herring. I don't know what the fuck they got. Something super- There's salt in it and sending it shit back over there. Which is, why do you do that? You got salty ass fish over there with your sardines and stuff.

You need different salty fish. Different salted fishes, Jimmy. Stop adding salt to your fucking- That's all they had back- Whatever they got. That was the- Sea bass. Salt was in place of refrigeration back then.

Oh, I got you. That's how you preserve it. You preserve it. So they did that to the meats. They did it to everything. Just fucking in place of refrigeration back then. Oh, I got you. That's how you preserve it. You preserve it. So they did that to the meats. They did it to everything. Just fucking salt it up. It'll stay. It'll hold if you salt it.

So, okay. Jesus. We still do that with ham, which is why I don't eat ham. It's like, we have refrigerators now. We did not need to cure them. Ugh, nasty. Stop curing it. It's cured.

So the non-bewigged people of the area, you know, people who actually had to do shit for a living and those kind of people, they were hunters and trappers and, you know, they worked timber and, you know, lumberjacks and shit like that. They were the real, you know, rugged frontiersmen, I guess. It's not really a frontier. The white hunter-gatherers. It's as close to the ocean as possible. So it's the last thing that could be really considered a frontier. It's also, Kittery is the southernmost town in Maine, which

is, like I said, it's a little tip on the bottom. 1705, during Queen Anne's War, it's a war there, tribes of the Wabanoski Confederacy raided the town, killing six citizens and taking five prisoners. Now, the Sahara Desert Fart Fact of the Week, Queen Anne's War, because I know you don't know what the fuck that is because neither did I,

was the North American theater of the War of the Spanish Secession, also known as the British Colony. So they were fighting over here. Second in the series of French and Indian wars fought between France and England and North America for control of the continent. Indian wars fought between France and England and North America for control of the continent. This here was fought in most, this war was mainly fought in Europe, but somehow American Indian tribes were involved that were allied with Spain. Wow. So that's the weird shit here. And Spain, it's super strange.

Spain was allied with France, so they would attack English settlements. Got it. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. So that is the Sahara Desert Fart Fact of the Week. Got it. Ridiculous. So that is the Sahara Desert Fart Fact of the Week.

During the American Revolution, the first vessels of the U.S. Navy were constructed on Badger's Island, which included the 1777 USS Ranger, which is interesting here. Very interesting. They were building the first ships here to fight the fight. Listen, bewig douchebags, gather up. There's people with bigger wigs coming right we need to fight them off understand where are our big wigs because the biggest wigs of all are coming to fight you they're powdery as fuck that's fascinating this area of the country is very interesting there's always a ton of history yeah yeah it's never like yeah like canyon lake was

the complete opposite they filled a fucking hole up with a hose, called it a lake in like 1970, and people showed up. This is way different here. Microwaves were around when that town was founded. This one is just, what the fuck? Practically had VCRs. So from the War of 1812 through the World Wars all the way up through Vietnam, Portsmouth's naval shipyard was engaged in ship construction, overhaul and repair. Everything from the wooden ships back then to the big ironclad warships, nuclear submarines, everything constructed there.

So this is a big ship making place here. Very cool. 1996, the movie Thinner was based here. It's filmed in Kittery. I'm sorry. The Stephen King novel is based on that. It was filmed in Kittery. It was filmed. The Stephen King novel is based on that. It was filmed in Kittery. It was filmed there after he based it on it.

That's cool. I don't know if it was based there, but it was filmed there. All of Stephen King's movies are based there, but they filmed in Kittery. So if you want to know what Kittery looks like, watch Thinner. Got it. I've seen the movie. There you go. That's Kittery.

There you go. It's creepy as fuck, but obviously. Notable people from here. There's a few. Sir William Pepperell, who we talked about. There's a rich guy planting shit. Arthur Shawcross, the serial killer. Is that

right? He's from this town. Wow. The guy that murdered in New York, right? Yeah, Shawcross. He's from here. And John O'Hurley, Jay Peterman is from here also. No kidding. Which is so weird because we talked about his nephew. That's so fucking weird. Messaged us like two weeks ago. What the fuck? And I saw him like, that's Jay Peterman. What the fuck?

That's so weird. So how strange is that? So there, that's where he's from, Kittery, Maine. Which is funny. That kind of, his accent kind of makes sense now. A little bit. Like the way he speaks and he can get that. I wouldn't know. He can get that classy thing going on like that. Almost like a, almost like if you took the edge off of like the JFK

accent. It's not that New England accent, but it's like a almost like if you took the edge off of like the jfk accent it's not that new england accent but it's like a guy who's been to theater school and knows how to cover it up but he can still put on the like an old man like i love that that's fucking amazing uh in 1790 there were 3259 people here i'm still blown away by the coincidence that's so weird that's so weird can't wait to tell jimmy i'll tell him during the show. So that's a lot of people for 1790. There's over 3,000 people here. The peak population was around 1970 at about 11,000 people.

As of now, there is 9,653 people here. It's up about 3% since 1990, which those East Coast towns don't have huge influxes. So it dropped off between 1790 pretty heavy. All those East Coast cities did. All of influxes. So it dropped off between 70 and 90 pretty heavy. All those East Coast cities did. Gotcha.

All of them did because that's when manufacturing started to die, the factories, shit like that. People would go out West. That's when people started going down South and out West and looking for jobs. That's when Arizona exploded. That's when Arizona. Nobody lived in, well, I mean, Southerners did, but people didn't come from the North to Tennessee in 1970. But in 1985, they did.

In 2018, they do. So it's one of those kind of things here. Median age in this town, Reagan averages 37.4. Here, it's 47.1. So it's a bit of an older town. So if you picture older gentlemen sitting outside in plaid on their porches, you've thought right. You've guessed right. That's pretty much what it is.

I picture in Funny Farm, the movers are coming by. And which way to Red Button? The guy's whittling and he tells them the direction. That's how I figure he's sitting out there all the time. Female population. That was the guy from Dumb and Dumber that had the heart attack in Dumb and Dumber, right? That was the mover? I think it was.

Yeah, the mover. And then there was a black guy, too, right? Yeah, the black guy was hilarious it was. Yeah, the mover. Yeah, yeah, that was him. And then there was a black guy, too, right? Yeah, the black guy was hilarious, too. And they gave him great lines. I forget who that guy is. I don't remember. He's in a bunch of 80s movies. He's in a lot of 80s movies.

He's awesome. The two of them were, they were maybe the best people in that movie. They were a really good comic duo, I have to say. Yeah, they were really great. I love when he's like, we're going across it on the bridge. Yeah. He's like, no, man, no, man. No, we're doing this. We're doing it. We're doing it. That, man, no, man. He's like, no, we're doing this.

We're doing it. That ain't a bridge, man. That's termites holding hands. That's such a great line. That ain't a bridge. That's termites holding hands. That's fucking genius. I'm sure you've heard people say that, and it's not theirs.

That's from Funny Farm. That's a great fucking line. Yeah, yeah. Most of people's funny lines from today are from 80s movies that they don't even know they're from 80s movies. 80s movies were so great for writing.

The acting was blah, blah, blah. Whatever. Not some good shit, but... But comedies, I mean, were written so fucking well. They were so, so great. Everything now is just a rip from old shit.

It's a direct remake, most of them, or a sequel. It's not even like a, hey, we're going to do this on the slide. It's like, we're doing this again except with a girl now

that's the difference now it's women enjoy what's different about it well it's women well that doesn't make it different it's still the same fucking story

the characters just happen to have vaginas now but they're still humans that handle the situation I could see it they were like they're dogs now I get it

dogs handle shit different women and men pretty much the same when it comes to that shit. Like fighting ghosts. Still humans. The biology's the same, really. It's fine. And they just made them have the same fucking characteristics of the other characters.

Yes, which is really annoying. Just fucking dumb. Ellie, if you're going to do that, say they're kids or some shit. Right. Horrible shit like that. You know what I mean? Even threw in a black woman because we had fucking Ernie Green. Ernie Green.

What am I talking about? It's Ernie Hudson, damn it. You show some respect for Ernie Hudson. I love Ernie Hudson, man. Ernie Hudson's the best. I met him. He's a real nice guy too, Ernie Hudson. Yeah, he's a really nice guy.

That scene where the helmet falls off his head in the subway is my favorite one because his face that he makes is fantastic. He's fucking amazing. He's really funny. Now back to Kittery Man here off the Ghostbusters funny farm train. Male-female populations. Female population, 55.5%, which is higher.

It's usually about 50-50, a little higher for female. But older people, every single time we say it, every time, you son of a bitches outlive us every time. That's why you get all the remakes and sequels. That's how it works. It's true. Harold Ramis is dead. We can't and sequels. That's how it works. It's true. Harold Ramis is dead. We can't do it again. See what happens?

All chicks. Fuck it. Fuck it. Put them in there. So married population here is 50-50. It's right about at average. So single population is right there. Also, the never marrieds are way less than – I guess you'll marry there at some point.

You might get divorced, but God damn it, you'll marry. But that's very much less than average here. Twice the divorced people is normal. Also, there are an equal number of married people. But like I said, they will get divorced. They'll get remarried again. They have faith, damn it. They have faith.

Married with no children is higher also. It's like 55% of the people are married with no children, which I feel are the older people. They're single with no children is also higher, though. Interesting. I'm not sure how that works here. Race, religion, voting, it's Maine, so it's fucking white. You bet. It is white up there, man.

That is like that area of the country, it doesn't get a whole lot whiter than that. No. It's super white. We have 94.5% white here. Good God. So, yeah, Duggar family portrait is what this is here. 0.91 percent black, 2.12 percent Asian, so not much there. 2.19 percent Hispanic, so they don't even let any goddamn Mexican people into this town.

30 percent of the people here are religious, which is a lot lower than the 50 percent normal, which a lot of times you find in the Northeast, but it's weird. It's in pockets in the Northeast because you'll get areas that are pretty religious, a lot of Catholics and whatever in it, and then you'll get areas like this where they're like, bad buckets. Catholics and whatever. Yeah, whatever. I don't know.

Whatever else is up there. Whatever else they figure out how to get in. Catholics are the Baptists of the North, as we know, so they're going to be the prevalent one, and then everybody else is going to be and-rans. They're also rans after that. It's the way it is. It's 21% Catholic here, 0.46% LDS. They're trying to get to Canada.

That's how it's going here. They're like, we can get there through Maine. Let's do it. It connects. Yeah, it connects here. I just found out. You know that now. 0.02% Jewish.

So not a lot of Jewish people here. There's only zero. Get yourself some jews guys let's do this uh come on borrow some from the surrounding areas but it's going to keep your violence down really an hour away from boston yeah come on there's gotta be somebody's gonna need a lawyer 0.0 percent muslim obviously it's uh i don't know how many muslims are invading small not invading but living in small yeah that's how I meant it. I'm Andrew Jackson now. That's not how I meant it.

What the fuck? Invading like a horde. That's not what I meant. In Toyotas. I say northerners invaded the South, not in the Civil War context, but moving there. When people move en masse, I call it an invasion. So sorry about that. They're not moving there en masse.

How about that? With turrets on a fucking 4Runner. That's right. Coming through. Mad Max style. Oh, shit. About 57% of the people here are Democrats, about 41% Republican, almost 3% Independent, which is Maine's kind of that kind of spirit there.

Free thinkers. Yeah. Low unemployment rate. It's just over 3%, so that's not bad. It's lower than- That's great. Yeah. Lower than the national average, which is 5%, which still isn't bad. Median household income here is about $60,225, which is about $7,000 more than the national average. So you make a little bit more money here, as we found out.

And you'll need to make a little bit more money because the houses are pretty pricey, as we'll find out here. Cost of living over here, as we say, $100 is average, par, regular. Overall here, it's $125 cost of living. So it's a little high. And the thing that's really driving it up is housing, which is $166 out of $100. Holy shit. It's a little pricey there. And the jobs here, too, we'll talk about for a second here.

There's a couple more manufacturing jobs than normal, but really it's not that out of the ordinary of every other place here. The public administration has more. I don't know. The ocean, you need more people to keep an eye on it. I have no goddamn idea. Houses, though, median home cost here is $307,797, which the national average is $185,000. So that's a little bit high. Most of the houses here fall in the – there's not a whole lot under the $200,000 range, basically.

There's quite a few over the half a million range, though. So it's a lot of them, though, in the $300,000, $400,000. That's so much money. If we've convinced you to move to Maine, we have for you the Kittery, Maine Real Estate Report. Let's do it. Your average two-bedroom apartment here goes for about $1,140, which is about $100 more than the national average, which is a lot more in proportion than the houses, which are way more expensive. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath

house. It's a 1,015 square foot house. It's a small house, two-bedroom. It's basically an apartment house kind of. It's on Woodlawn Avenue. It needs a lot of work. It looks like the saltwater has done bad things to it. Put it that way. It does not look great.

It looks pretty dilapidated. That's $160,000 there. 1,100 square feet. Not even. It's 1,015, and it's run down. That's a lot. It's $160,000. So fixer-upper for you.

Start her home. I found a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,480-square-foot house. It's a nice, pretty house. Done well. $349,900. Fuck. It's not a huge house. That's a nice, pretty house. Done well. $349,900. Look. It's not a huge house. That's what your average little family home will cost you.

I can't afford to live in this place. No, we can't. Nobody can here. Not us, anyway. Four-bedroom, two-bath home. 2,575 square feet. Yeah. This is nice.

It's on some property. It has gardens that lead up with a bunch of rocks. One point what? $535,000. Wow. Not bad. No, that's a decent price for there. It's kind of out on its own.

I think that helps too. Now, things to do there. Oh, boy. This town apparently is known mainly as a tourist destination for outlet stores. Was that a pun, you motherfucker? Yes. It's known for outlet stores. It's known for fucking outlet stores. Literally, that's why people come here for for outlet stores. It's known for fucking outlet stores.

Literally, that's why people come here for the outlet stores. We used to build boats. Now? Now, enjoy the baby gal. Adidas is having a sale. Yeah. Now that's what it is. Right.

That's awful. We have all of every Jordan in there in the Nike store. That's all they have. Fucking terrible. I hate outlet stores so much. Oh, they're the worst. They're so lousy. That said, I have to shop That's all they have. It's fucking terrible. I hate outlets. They're so much. They're the worst. They're so lousy.

That said, I have to shop at them all the time. Oh, they stop. If you're on the road. There's one right by my fucking house, and it's convenient to get my kids stuff there, but I hate being there. No, it's awful. I hate... It's the worst. Everybody thinks they're getting a deal.

It's like a retail yard sale. It's terrible. Jesus Christ. You're not getting a deal. You'll never get a deal if it's a retail place. It's not a deal. They're still making money off of you. Otherwise, the doors would be fucking closed.

That's fucking funny, man. Yeah, they basically say it's nothing. People that aren't from here basically say it's a two-mile stretch of outlet malls. That's the town. Fucking terrible. I really liked this place, right? Up until now. Up until that.

They do have a holiday parade. Yeah. Begins in Post Office Square every year. You follow the parade. We'll follow the traditional route. And concluding at John Paul Jones Park with a tree lighting. So yay. Have a merry afternoon, it says.

Good for you. Also May 26th. We just missed it. Damn it. Holding its annual Memorial Day parade. 9 a.m. Meet up at the old fire station there and go around to all the roads named after bewigged douchebags. There's marching bands and local volunteers, military personnel, veterans, and more.

Douglas Burnell and March Schremer will serve as the parade grand marshals this year. So we have that. Douglas Burnell is a retired Navy CB who served in korea and vietnam whoa fuck i feel like a dick that's why i did that that's why i did that i did that special for that just so you'd feel like a dick i literally set that up oh he's a double war veteran hero he's done way more than you westman way more way more he's seen some shit he's in korea he would call you names and he'd stab you with a bayonet and leave you in a ditch without even caring. And I would deserve it. And you'd deserve it.

Crime rate in this town, besides old men stabbing tourists with bayonets, we're just there to shop at the outlet. Right. All I wanted was to sail at Baby Gat. I was getting a deal. I didn't know about your service. I apologize. Jesus Christ. Can you point me to the children's place?

Please. Crime rates here. Property crime. Where's the children's place? Please. Crime rates here. Property crime. Where's the jimbery? Come on. Help me out. Property crime is slightly higher than average here. Not too much. That's pretty much on the money. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crimes is about 15% higher than normal.

So it's a little bit higher in the violent area, but eh. You got war heroes that nobody knows about. They're bayonetting people in the street, man. That's what happens. Violence, baby. Know your history, fuckers. Yeah. Well, let's talk about some shit that happened here.

We've got to go all the way back to 1987 for this bad boy. Let's go back. I love when we go back to the 80s, these weird 80s crimes. We're going to go back, man, because we have to go. Calendar pages are flying and lightning. We were spinning around. Harry Potter. Harry Potter's going to a child. Yeah. I see like, you know, pasta flying around our heads for some reason. I don't know why. Corkscrew. Whatever happened in Jumanji is happening right now.

I don't know why. That's what I see. What do you want from me? So all the way back to the summer of 1987, the summer of 1987, we will talk about Dawn Marie Romano. Dawn Marie Romano, she was Dawn Marie Romano in the beginning of the summer of 87. By the end of it, she is Dawn Marie Garvin because she marries her boyfriend, who is a naval officer named Keith Garvin. He's her boyfriend since high school. They went to Hartford County, Joppa Town High School together. So this is a nice little story. They're high school sweethearts. He's a naval officer.

She's 20 years old. They're very young. They just get married in the summer of 87. Nice story. That's some fucking John Cougar Mellencamp things about this shit all the time. they're very young they just get married in the summer of 87 nice story that's some fucking John Cougar Mellencamp sings about this shit all the time

you know that's all he has really if we think about it every hit he's got nothing else he really doesn't what else has he ever sung about

I don't know Scarecrow but I don't even know what the fucking song's about I guarantee you it's about someone in a small town making his way

there's a Scarecrow involved there's a Scarecrow you're fucking right making his way he's just a scarecrow involved. There's a scarecrow. You're fucking right. Making his way. He's just going to add in something about two miles outlet malls here and it's going to be fine. I think scarecrow is about like revenge

or something in a small town. I've honestly never been in a small town. I was going to say, in a small town. Where? On a corn farm? Is that where it is? Some shit like that.

Fucking pander. I get that. i hope that's how he really is he fucking better well i really hope that's how he because if he has been pandering this whole fucking time a little pink for fucking 35 years i i'm gonna have to hunt him down and punch him in the throat like if he's really like that cool whatever that's fine that's your he's a folk guy but uh if he's really like that, cool. Whatever. That's fine. He's a folk guy. But if he's like, I picture him like when you go to his house, it's just all real slick. He wears like leather pants. You know what I mean? It's very slick. Lots of white marble.

Yeah. Lots of white marble. He's yelling at his servants and shit like that. Like, I picture none of that shit. White marble marble with the black lines in it that's just so. He picked it out perfectly with that black line in it. It kind of looks a little Asian like they used to have in the 80s. Everything was sort of Asian a little bit. A little tinge.

Just kind of sharp. Yeah, it had a sharpness to it. Picture that's John Cougar Mellencamp. That has nothing to do with these people here. But that has nothing to do with these people here. Now, Dawn Marie, she's happy, obviously, with this whole thing. But her husband is a naval officer, so he lives by the base, and then she's off base. So they're kind of doing this.

She also, Dawn, she needed someone to keep her company because he's away. So she got a poodle named Pepper. I don't do it. A poodle puppy named Pepper. She picks him. Yuck, he says. You don't like poodles, huh? I love dogs. I hate poodles.

It's a weird pet. There's some shit in their eyes. It's not like a weird pet to own. It's a weird pet to pet. It's weird to pet them. It's like a hairless cat. It feels weird. I don't know where to grab and massage. They are a weird pet to pet like it's it's weird to pet them it's like a hairless cat it feels weird yeah i don't know where to grab and massage you know they are a weird dog it's a weird dog to pet it is a weird dog it's got that shit on the top of the head they're very bitey too which i don't

care for nibbly for sure and sometimes they nibble too hard and they're just not a dog dog they're like a you know i mean like a dog dog you can fuck with them you can push them over like those things you don't that's not a fucking dog to play with little like a, you know what I mean? Like a dog dog. You can fuck with them. You can push them over. Like those things you don't, that's not a fucking dog to play with. People like little dogs too though. You know me, I like big dogs. I'll still push a little dog around. I have dogs I can get in a headlock and take them over if I need to. And they're like, cool, awesome.

This is affection. Like they're just, you know, you could do anything to my dogs. And I've got a fucking cattle dog that no matter what I do, he tries to push me. He's trying to herd you. Yeah, yeah. Nips. I've got so many holes in the bottoms of my jeans because he's an asshole. That's a dick move, man.

That's a dick move. But I can push him over because he's a dog dog. He's not a fucking poodle where I don't know how to own you. I'm trying to have dominion over you and I don't know how. I don't know how to show you I'm boss. This is fucking weird. I don't get it. show you I'm boss. This is fucking weird. I don't get it. It's a weird pet.

So her husband here, her husband Keith Garvin, like we said, he lives on base in Oceana, Virginia. She was busy making a home for them in the White Marsh area of Baltimore in an apartment they rented together. So right now we're in Baltimore, summer of 87, which is basically the David Simon homicide book. Okay. Because that takes place in 1988. Wow. So this is fucking amazing.

I hate to say this, but some of the stuff that happens here I really wish would have happened a year later because I would have already known about it before when I read about it. So anyway, moving on here. I'm going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about True Car. Truecar.com. What is MSRP? It's confusing.

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I don't know if that's a military thing. His commanding officer, I believe, is what I'm going for. It's his boss. Yeah, I was going to say from his boss, I don't know if that's a military thing. His boss. His commanding officer, I believe, is what I'm going for. It's his boss. Yeah, I guess you'd say that's my boss. You got his chit. Isn't that what it is? I don't know. I think that's what that day off is.

You get a chit. I don't know. Or you leave the country and you get a chit. I don't know. A chit? Listen, I was never in the military. No, neither was I. I just know I picked up friends from the base.

You claimed to be once, but you never actually were. That I do know. That's my favorite lie ever. It's so lazy. Anyway, so I picked up friends from a military base in San Diego, and we were going across the border to Mexico. So we were going to go do dumb shit in Tijuana. Like you do. Right, right.

And so we were heading across the border, and they were like, nobody in this truck is from the military. Nobody say anything about the military because they're going to ask us for our chits. So I'm assuming that there's a chit somehow. Gotcha. I mean, I know that there's a chit somehow. I just don't know if it's a day off chit or if it's like a chit that says you're allowed to leave somewhere.

You're like on your own. Yeah. I don't know. We've agreed that we will come back. Somehow none of this came up in the murder stories. It's very strange. Anyway, so he's got a day off. So he's got a day off.

He has to come back that night, though, but he can stay out for the day. So Betty wants to make, I'm sorry, Dawn wants to make the most of it. Yeah. So she calls her mother named Betty. Yeah. That's where Betty came from. Betty Romano. Got it.

Hey, it's fucking Betty Romano. Hey, Betty, how you doing, honey? You want to whip me up some fucking lasagna? That's what she does. She asks her mother. She calls her mother to ask her for a lasagna recipe. This is amazing. Which is great.

A nice young lady. This is right up your alley. Hey, Betty. How you doing, sweetheart? Let me ask you a question. You still got that fucking lasagna recipe? I got to tell you, nobody lays a lasagna like you, honey. I'm telling you right now.

You get the fucking meat and the ricotta in there. It's beautiful. So she's asking what's going on here. She asked for the lasagna recipe. The husband's leaving, like I said, to go back to the base that night. She wants to cook him a nice special meal, make it special before they leave. I'm sure they had some sort of, you know, I'm sure they got together. There's some coitus going on.

Lasagna leads to sex. His dick was out. That some coitus going on. Lasagna leads to sex. Lasagna leads to sex. If you make a lasagna someone's fucking you. That's all I'm saying. It's true. That's it. So it happens. Keep that in mind. Fellas or ladies, I don't care which you are. You make a lasagna, maybe you get some action. Maybe it happens.

If you're on a dry spell. Don't you touch the stofers, goddammit. You go to the store.'re on a dry spell. Whip a lasagna. Don't you touch the stofers, goddammit. No, no, no. You go to the store. It's not that hard. Layer the shit in there. There's like six ingredients.

Italian food is so easy. It is. That's what I don't understand. Like, people fuck it up and they make, it's so easy and like the store-bought version of it

is so terrible. It's so bad. It's like 1% as good as the original. So just make the fucking food. Just make it. It's not hard. Sauce is easy 1% as good as the original. So just make the fucking food. Just make it. It's not hard. Sauce is easy.

I'll come over and teach all of you. Please make sauce. And if you're fucking weak on the sauce, you're an asshole. It's not that hard. Don't overload the ricotta. It's fine. It's fine. No, that's true.

When you're in the, well, that's your personal lasagna preference if you want to have a lot of cheese or not. I want a lot of sauce. You want more sauce as opposed to cheese. Some people want more meat. You never know. Yeah. I like it wet and meaty.

Moving on. Let's ignore that. I like it wet and meaty. Holy shit. I don't think that's the... I like it both. Lots of sauce, lots of wet. I don't think that's the sentence you planned on coming out of your mouth. you said it you were like oh shit i just said that didn't know we're gonna

talk about lasagna how could you now i know so that's amazing so after dinner uh keith this is amazing too he takes off on his motorcycle headed for virginia yeah how fucking Top Gun is this? It's 1987. He's in the Navy. Check, check, Top Gun. He goes inland there to get his groove on and to eat some dinner with a fine young lady and then gets on his motorcycle and drives back to Virginia. That's a scene from Top Gun. He literally was like, we're going to reenact Top Gun, aren't we? They're like, you bet your ass we are. She's like, do I have to be Kelly McGillis?

I don't want to be Kelly McGillis. Don't worry. I'll shower. Don't worry. I'll shower first, baby. I'll shower before I get there. We play in volleyball when I get there. Yeah.

I'm like Cowey. So about 8.30 p.m. that night, Keith was already gone. He already took off. So he had to get back pretty – that's early to have to leave. Romano, his sister, her sister, Dawn, Jesus, that's hard to say. Dawn Romano's brother is easier to say than Romano's sister, Dawn. So he stops by his sister's apartment to pick up a set of keys to Keith's car because Keith left the car at the apartment so it could be repaired during the week and he was going to, her brother

was going to take the car and get it fixed. Yeah. So that seems normal. So he said he only stayed at his sister's apartment for about five minutes. Yeah. This was 8.30 p.m. Everything was fine. He leaves the apartment, and he said that she, Dawn, was going to walk her dog right

then. She was just about to leave to walk Pepper the puppy poodle. Dawn is walking Pepper the puppy poodle. So he leaves. Keith got on his motorcycle, takes off. Brother leaves, got the keys. He goes back home. Got it.

He goes outside into the night to walk her dog there. So let's talk about somebody else right now. Let's talk about Stephen Howard Okun. Okay. Okay. Stephen Howard Okun. This is a guy. He's from Randallstown, Maryland.

He's a Baltimore guy basically he is he's adopted at birth okay he's adopted at two days old and raised he's adopted by a good family

so he's adopted by a stable upper middle class family they're Jewish too so you get adopted by Jewish people you fucking hit the adoption lottery right there

because they take care of their goddamn kids yeah they do say that adoption lottery right there because they take care of their goddamn kids. Yeah, they do. Say that's a stereotype? It is. They take care of their fucking kids. Sorry, they do. Is that a bad thing? How many people have we covered so far that were Jewish?

Let me ask you that question right now. Not a fucking lot. They're not even in the goddamn towns we cover, never mind murdering anybody. They may convert after they're behind bars. Yeah, not to Judaism, I doubt. I don't think that's a thing to convert to in prison. I was watching Lockup. I think you're one of two things in there.

And there was a man that did that. Oh, there's people because there's support groups, too, for it. Honestly, the Jewish support groups take a little better care of their people than the other ones because there's less of them, I think. They're like, hey, we got you covered. And also in prison, when you convert to Judaism, you get a better meal. Yeah, that's true, too. There's much better food. I know they have the Muslim too. You can start

to convert to Muslim you get the halal it's a different deal. So much better. Not bad. So he's raised by a nice family like we said. He's converted to Judaism when he's right when he's adopted which I don't know how he can make that decision at that point in time. Trim that dick. Trim some dick. Put some

water on their head. I don't fucking know what they do to each other. I don't know. I have no idea. The boy used to trim it and then put it in his fucking mouth. That's the creepiest thing I've ever heard. To cure it? No, that was a weird thing. Weird sidetrack.

Actually, I read something about this like two years ago that that is a big deal because people were suing this Moyle because he gave some kid herpes. Oh, that's fucked up. Because he had herpes and he put his dick on it. So they were saying, you gave my fucking infant herpes. Oh, Jesus. And so then they were kind of just legally looking into the whole practice of, you know, a grown man putting his mouth on a baby's penis.

They were like, you know, just from the outside, it doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look right, but it's one of those things where it's a religious thing and you can't tell people what to do religion-wise, and so they put their mouths on people's dicks. So that's what happens there, and that's the tradition. It is. So I don't know. It's not these people's fault. You've got to put some pressure on it.

That's something where we can go, you know what? Let's rewrite one of our rules here. I mean, we've got to put some pressure on it. That's something where we can go, you know what? Let's rewrite one of our rules here. I mean, we've got rags and shit. Word of God, I get it. But he's got a beard and he's putting his face on it. No. We can't have that. What kind of fucking organisms are in his face?

We can't have that. No. So his mother's name, his parents' names are David and Davida, by the way. No. You didn't get to do that. Very Jewish. Okay. That's extremely Jewish.

So, yeah. His younger brother and his sister grow up to both have successful careers in the medical field. Okay. So it's a good family. Davida, his mother, said the siblings, you know, they all remained in contact always and they were always nice to each other. They all remained in contact always, and they were always nice to each other. Stephen's Bar Mitzvah took place on January 25, 1975, at the Baltimore Hebrew Congregation. His mother tells everybody here.

She said the family was never strictly observant. They'd order Chinese food and get the shrimp. They were fine with that. But the kids did spend the high holy holidays at synagogue, where their parents were members for 27 years at the time. So, you know, through the years. That's pretty religious. That's pretty religious, but they're not, like, devout. Like, if you're devout Judaism, that's a whole different.

His dad's not running around with, like, the curly sideburns. Yeah, his dad will tie a shoe on Saturday is what I'm getting at. You know what I mean? And eat whatever. It's just culturally one of those things. It's kind of – back home, there's a million people like that that are – They go to church on Easter and Christmas. Jewish people are like that. They're talking about Catholics. No, they're like, oh, it's Passover. I got to go to my grandmother's house.

But then they're like – like I said, then they're like eating shrimp and like they don't give a fuck. Banging hookers and shit like that. Yeah, exactly. It's fine. But like on the holidays, they're like, i said then they're like eating shrimp and like yeah they don't give a fuck banging hookers and shit like that and yeah exactly it's fine but like on the holidays you're like all right let's do this whatever yeah let's go get clean all right fine let's go watch a grown man suck a kid's dick fine that's the weirdest tradition ever i can't believe nobody said anything even in like the 60s 60s i don't 500 years ago even. You're like, should we be sucking kids' dicks? No one said anything about that.

No, don't let them do that. I get that they're not like fellating the kid. You're not moving up and down. No, but I don't want, I don't think any grown man should put his mouth on a baby's penis. Is that wrong? No. Is that wrong? I don't think that's incorrect at all.

If you're bitten by a rattlesnake in the middle of the desert and you need to suck out the poison. I don't want you putting it in there. And you can't get to a hospital. Yeah, that's like in the middle of the desert. Even in that place, maybe tie a tourniquet around the dick. That's it. We'll work on it later. Jesus Christ, man.

Tell him, don't panic. We're tying it up. It's going to happen. Don't worry about it. We'll get you there. So Stephen here, through his childhood, he's a very normal kid. He plays sports. He was on the lacrosse team all through high school, which is pretty athletic.

That means you're pretty tough, too. Usually it's the hockey kids that play lacrosse in the offseason. This was at Randallstown High School. He studied health science for three years at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. He withdrew a few credits shy of a degree, though. He didn't get his degree in that. He did. He had, everybody said, his parents said he had a very conventional childhood.

Everything was normal, except when at the age of 11, his parents told him he was adopted. Oh, no. And he freaked the fuck out. I mean, lost his shit. This was not just like, oh, wow, that's weird. He lost it. This like sent his whole life into a left turn. His mother said that he, quote, screamed in disbelief for two hours.

So, I mean, wow. I'm trying to think of anything that my, the longest my kid has screamed. Two hours yelling at you. That's a long time. Giving you the business. Yeah. Calling you racist things. Yeah.

Calling you Jewish terms. Yeah. Because he's not Jewish now. No, he's like, I'm not fucking Jewish. What the fuck? God damn it. Screaming the K word. I don't even want to say it. That explains why my grades suck. God damn it.

I knew it. Screaming Hitler was right and shit. I wasn't interested in medicine. Right. This is terrible. No, so he freaked the shit out. Screamed for two hours. You really got to have something in you to scream. I've never screamed Scream for two hours. You really got to have something in you to scream. I've never screamed about anything for two hours.

No. I'm tired after 10 minutes. I'm like, all right, that's enough. You guys have heard my rants. I need a nap after that. I'm like, that's all the energy I have. So two hours of having an 11-year-old just grill you seems interesting. And you know at the end of that, they had to look at each other and go,

maybe we shouldn't have told him. Right. What do you think? Whoever's idea that was, no, no, we should really tell him. The other one you know was like, I don't know. What do you think he's going to react? He'll be fine. He needs to know it's his right.

You know the other one was like, thanks. Good idea. This is going great. So many told you so. This is going phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you so much. Jesus Christ, man.

How do you feel about your ideas now? Yeah. How about you don't get any more ideas? No more ideas from you. I don't even want to know what you want for dinner because it's going to be wrong and bad. How about you run your ideas across me and then when I say no, we don't do it. It's just forever. Gone.

That's it. Forever. Especially not telling our children they're adopted. You want to tell one of our other kids something else? Right. What do you want to tell them? You want to tell them what position they were conceived in? You want to do that one now?

Let's do it. Let's see how they react to it. What do you say? You want to tell them what position they were conceived in? You want to do that one now? Let's see how they react to it. What do you say? So he also, still though, he goes about his business. That was 10 or 11.

In high school, though, he was fine. He played sports. He played lacrosse. He had good grades. He had friends. He had a cheerleader girlfriend. He wasn't like an outcast. He wasn't somebody that everybody looked at like they were dirty or anything like that.

He wasn't like a dommer who everybody looked at like he was weird. They were like, oh, he's such a goofball fuck. It wasn't even that. He wasn't a nerd. He wasn't picked on. Normal, nice kid that everybody liked. As a young man here, he begins to work alongside his father. His father owns a pharmacy.

It's Okin's Rexall Pharmacy it's called it's across from Johns Hopkins Hospital there so he works alongside his father he's training with his father to be like a pharmacy tech and then do all that I'm sure he'll take over the family business I would imagine is the goal here which is god damn it I wish I was

a drug dealer one day yes god damn it I wish I was raised Jewish I swear to god I say it all the fucking time. Don't get offended by it. Seriously. I know I'm from New York. I know a bunch of kids that were Jewish and I'd look at their families and I'd go, fuck man. They got it together. You fucking people. My family sucks. You people are

like fucking have your shit together. You're concerned about the kids education. They had like a college fund and like nothing to do with money, but they just like thought about their kids and like invested time and effort into them. And whereas we were raised free range, we were just like, well, we had a kid. He knows what to do. Or he'll die.

Or he'll die. I don't know. Then we won't have a kid. He'll figure it out, though, I think, in the end. I'm going to take my chances, I feel like. So this is what I mean. So he has a family business to inherit, which is great for him. He marries a young woman named Phyllis Hurt, H-I-R-T.

His mother said that he met her through the pharmacy. And, you know, she came in and it's like a Rocky situation except reversed. She's Rocky, I guess, if she came into the shop. So scratch the Rocky analogy. Got her birth control and was like i don't have a boyfriend this is just because my periods are regular my periods they're very messy right they're very i can't have it and he said i like your practicality do you want to go out sometime she said absolutely where do you want to take me what do you think what do you think

shall we have bagels ah that's too jewish yeah. Yeah, you went too Jewish there. Damn it. Damn it, Jimmy. If you said brisket, you could have got away with it. Because that's just as much Texas as Jewish. Do we have a Reuben? But she had to go there. Damn it, Jimmy. See? I hope she made him a real nice lasagna.

That's what I hope. That's what we hope here. we hope here. Apparently everything is fine with Stephen until about 1986 when his mother says trouble started to emerge from him. She says

that he started running away from a lot of things, which is a weird thing. He started running away from a lot of things. He started to use drugs also, which again shows his non-Jewishness. And that's a really terrible thing when you're in a pharmacy. That's a thing. He used cocaine,, which again shows his non-Jewishness. And that's a really terrible thing when you're in a pharmacy. That's a thing. He used cocaine, marijuana, abused alcohol, and, oh, yeah, prescription medications that he had shitloads of access to.

And so that's a bad, bad thing, obviously. She said he ran away from things, not like physically one foot in front of the other. Like mentally he just withdrew from shit. I think he would withdraw and go into drinking fits and i think like he would just like his wife would be like where was he for two days like shit like that he'd be off drinking having some bender and then come back and they were like okay this is weird this is weird so let's go to a fucking temple let's go to the way i just picture at that point i picture the scene in goodfellas where henry hill comes home at five in the morning and she's sitting there in the living room with both of her parents.

And her mother bursts up first and they pull in. Where have you been all night? Normal people don't act like this. Blah, blah, blah. And Joe Pesci's like, normal people don't act like this. What the fuck's wrong? What the fuck's wrong with these people? Get the fuck out of here.

And then they just leave. And they just leave. And then they go right back to the car. He stops, listens for about a line and a half, and then just turns around, goes right back to the car. Yeah, fuck this. And starts laughing. Because he's like, I'm drunk.

I've been up all night. I'm not putting up with this shit. I love that so much. Normal people don't live like this. Normal people don't act like this. Go out. Daddy never went out. Daddy never went anywhere.

Sorry. Just recite good photos. That's funny, too, because she was such a- The man hasn't been able to digest a decent meal in six weeks. She was such a fucking- Karen, right? It was Karen. Yeah, Karen.

She stood for him every fucking day, sell, ride, or die. She was down. Yeah, she was fucking down, man. She really was. His parents started noticing a physical change in him at this point. Yeah. Skinniness and just squirreliness. Sure.

And you look like you're on a lot of drugs. And you're clammy. You're kind of pale. He takes a toll on you after a while. You look a little green. If you could just do tons of drugs and look fine, everybody would do them. Everybody would do them. You'd be like, this is great.

Just function. I feel great. I look great. All your teeth stay in. If they've made you fucking fit, forget it. Meth gets you thin. It gives you energy. Everybody be on meth.

This is fantastic. If it weren't for those face sores. You know, sores and the weight loss and the teeth falling out. Things like that, people tend to shy away from it. But I really think they're not giving it a chance. Give meth a chance. Meth in moderation. Don't do meth.

Don't do any meth here. So the father and mother demanded that he seek help for his drug problem if he wanted to continue to work at the pharmacy, which is smart. You can't stay here with all the drugs if you're on drugs. We can't have that. By the way, when you get clean, this is probably not the best place for you either around all the drugs if you're on drugs. Like, we can't have that. By the way, when you get clean, this is probably not the best place for you either around, you know, all the drugs. Sitting there counting out the Vicodin,

one for you, one for me. One for you, one for me. Yeah, at that point, you're dealing with like a Cheers Sam Malone situation where you're like, so he's an alcoholic that lost his career because of booze and then he opened a bar? That's brilliant.

And we're happy for him? Right. Like, shouldn't we be trying to get him out of here? I don't think this is good for him. Somebody take him home. Yeah. So, yeah. So he saw a psychiatrist on and off.

He actually tried to get help for about a year. But in about 1987, in the summer and fall of 87, he started to get in trouble with the law. He was arrested October 13th for beating up a motel clerk in East Baltimore. Prop Joe is not happy with that. You don't fuck around on the east side, baby. I'll tell you that right now. I can understand beating up a hotel clerk. I have come very close to mauling a hotel clerk once or twice. Some are kind of twatty.

I get it. But this I don't think was the hotel clerk's problems based on his activities later. This I don't think was the hotel clerk's problems based on his activities later. A week later after that, he attacked a prostitute in a parking lot at the Inner Harbor, which is like what they built. They're like, Baltimore is terrible. So they built like, look, never mind all of that. Look at how shiny the harbor is. Like literally that was like the no, don't fuck around. And that's like zero tolerance for crime there because it's like this is the one place in the fucking city where people come and spend money and do this shit like back then. Right.

They talk about it. You fuck around at the tourist spot. Yeah. That's why there's no murder at Disneyland. Yeah. Because the mayor of fucking Anaheim will have you whacked. Well, yeah. In the David Simon book, the homicide book, they actually talk about that.

They actually talk about how they actually had a murder of somebody at the Inner Harbor. And basically it came down from on high that this shit would be solved yesterday. Everyone will get convicted and this will never fucking happen again. And they found that motherfucker that day. And drowned him in the harbor. And drowned him in the harbor, Absolutely. In a public ceremony. It was very interesting. They're like, you do not.

No. This is the one place tourists aren't afraid of in this whole fucking town because Baltimore was dangerous in the 80s. It was Beirut in the 80s. Wow. So yeah, don't kill anybody down there. So you can't get in fights with prostitutes. He got in a fight with her because he refused to pay in advance.

What does he fucking think this is? What do you think this is? It's a problem, dude. It's like a gas station. You have to pay first. I get it. It's 87, but still. But listen, people have stolen before, so just fucking be the guy. That's not something you can take back. No. So, you know what? There's no return policy here.

Just pay up front and get your blowjob and get the fuck home. That's it. So, uh, oh shit. Fuck. So, yeah, on November 9th of 1987, he received probation before the judgment was given for one year of supervised probation in a case which he was arrested for punching and trying to, by the way, the hotel clerk, he punched and tried to sexually assault her also. Oh, my God. So they only charged him with the assault because I guess it was questionable, even though she was saying he was trying to fucking sexually assault me.

He was fined. That part I don't condone, by the way. That's not small-town murder behavior. Just so you know, I'm not there. No, no. I understand wanting to punch the girl. Punch the clerk and then leave. And if it's a girl?

And then get a complimentary cookie and move on. If it's a girl, how about maybe don't punch? Yeah, don't punch her at that point. Maybe verbally assault and walk the fuck out. You can do that. Go down the road to the Holiday Inn. Perfect. Perfect.

Yeah, so he punched and tried to sexually assault the desk clerk. He gets a probation before one year of supervised probation. He's also fined and ordered to undergo drug and alcohol treatment at that point. So that's November 9th. That's a week after we left Dawn walking her dog. So let's find out what happened in between there here. On November 1st, this is the same day that Dawn had her husband over, and she's walking Pepper.

He has been in a downward spiral. Just completely, like we said, he's getting in fights with prostitutes in tourist areas. Unbelievable. Because he wants them, they want him to pay first. He's assaulting hotel clerks. Shit is unraveling

for this fucking guy. Obviously here. He's drinking heavily. He's doing any drug he can get his hand on. He was stealing antidepressants and other drugs from the pharmacy.

Just a mess. Okay. Finally, November 1st, 87, his wife is on a business trip. We don't know if it's California or outside of Seattle because I've heard both in alternate court documents. I've seen both. West Coast. She's on the West Coast.

She's far away from Maine. Way far. Way far away from Maine. So with his wife away, Stephen gets shit hammered. It's drunk as a skunk. And he starts wandering around White Marsh. He starts wandering around apartments in White Marsh. He is witnesses will later say he knocked on 20 to 30 doors that they found, which he was drunk. And he was posing alternately as a stranded motorist. Okay. A boyfriend who just got booted out of his house and needs to use the phone.

Okay. And a doctor who just got an important page. Okay. So he's a disheveled, drunk-looking man who looks like a drug addict whose parents have made him go to rehab because of how shitty he looks. And he's going, I'm a doctor. I just got this important page. Can I use your phone?

Are you out of your fucking mind? Drunk or not? that's a poor idea and 20 to 30 people decided no they were like I don't fucking think so like that's how obviously

obvious of a fucking problem he was basically like I just that's my like I get like my car broke down

like that's a decent one even if you're drunk people are like Jesus yeah why were you driving why were you driving you're sleep it off on my couch? Or like the boy at my girlfriend just kicked me out of my apartment.

That makes sense. I've already been drinking and drugging about it. Yeah, you know how it goes. I'm real depressed. Look, I'm real depressed. There's that and then the doctor one, which is just amazing. He's getting real desperate. I just got an important page.

Sir, you aren't even wearing pants. Where's getting real desperate. I just got an important page. I got to use your... What? Sir, you aren't even wearing pants. Where's your pager? What are you talking about? You're in your pajamas. What are you talking about? Jesus Christ. But he ends up, after being rejected countless times, 20 to 30 times to be exact, he runs

into Dawn Marie Garvin walking Little Pepper and he convinces her to let him use her phone. Yeah. Okay. Which I don't know what would make... I guess the only thing I could think is when either she's really nice, overly nice, or when you're

behind your door and you open it and someone says something, it's really easy to just close your door and go no. But if you're out, walking walking around and then they come up to you, it's real hard to be like, no, I think you're a scumbag. And then just be like, okay, then, and turn and walk the other direction and still be right there. There's no door to close. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's hard to be like, I've got a lot of shit to do.

I'm really sorry. I'm really busy right now. When you're walking, you're fucking dog. Yeah, I have a bag full of shit in my hand. What could I have to do? Or maybe the dog just shit and she didn't pick it up and she's like, maybe he saw that and he's going to tell on me.

Yeah, you can use my phone. You never know. Or also when you're 20, you're trusting. And when you meet people, you're like, oh, I met this person who's now my friend. Whereas now, if I meet anybody, I'm like, who the fuck is that guy? I don't trust him for a second. She's like me, and I just talk, and I just don't mind talking to people.

I'll talk for fucking hours. Yeah, this guy would be using your phone. Yeah, yeah, here you go. Come on in. Let's go. Come on over. And the next thing you know, your husband would be calling you. Keith Garvin, at midnight, he arrived at the Navy base there.

It's a long drive. That's a long drive. Took a while to get back there. He had, like we said, he had a pass to go see her. He returns there. When he gets there, he attempts to call Dawn on the phone just to say, got here safely. Took a long ride on my motorcycle.

Probably want to know I'm here. Opened up the cowie a bit tonight. Had a little fun. You know, I did a Tom Cruise style. Did a couple of wheelies over some speed bumps down the runway. I just saw Tom Cruise with his hair in the wind in Top Gun, and I said, I need to have that. So I took a little detour on the beach. Just put the bottom of the zipper up.

You know how it goes. Just left that fucking top part of the bomber jacket able to catch some wind. You know, yeah, yeah. Inflated on the shoulders. Looks like I'm really cruising. We really want to catch that wind. because otherwise he would he would have looked almost like the wind was hurting him otherwise so you needed to make it look like the wind is almost in his sails he's part of it he's part of the wind tom cruise part of the wind so uh he

gets not to be outdone by patrick swayze and that fucking wind song. She is like the wind. One is part of the wind and one is labeling others like the wind. That was a terrible song. That's a terrible movie. Well, yeah, but the song, Jesus Christ. Don't sing Patrick Swayze. Stop it, Pat. And you can tell how well that worked out because he never did it again.

There was no more Swayze albums coming out. And then he got cancer, so music gave him cancer yeah music weakened his pancreas that's what happens you make bad songs it weakens your pancreas i hear that's just what i hear it's based on anecdotal evidence of one person but i'm gonna go ahead and say it's fact should have just relied heavily on that cock bulge you had in the picture from fucking Roadhouse. That's it, man. I feel like that was everything. That would have carried your career forever. And your fine, fine mullet. He was the last person in America allowed to have a mullet.

Him and Shawn Michaels were the two people allowed to have mullets. Let him run it forever. One, because Shawn Michaels will kick your ass. And the other one is because your wife might leave you for Patrick's wife. That's the problem, yeah. So he tries to call her. The phone rings and rings and rings. There's no answer. So he's like, okay, that's wife. That's the problem. Yeah. So he tries to call her. The phone rings and rings and rings. There's no answer. So he's like, okay, that's weird. Maybe she's

taking a dump. I don't know. Who knows what people do. We just got a poodle. Yeah, who knows? Maybe the poodles. Exactly. There's no cell phones here. This is 87. I don't know how to have a pet poodle. So maybe she's doing something. Maybe she figured it out. He's calling house phones here. So this is a frustrating time. You're calling house phones and there's no answer.

God damn it. You can't know what's there. So he called a few more times. It was about a half hour. He called and called and called and called and nobody ever answered. So then he starts to get worried. And so he calls his father-in-law, a Frederick Romano, and he lived close to their apartment. So he said, you know, would you go over and check on Dawn?

I'm calling her. She's not answering. So he said, all right, what the fuck are we? I went out to check on this fucking broad. What the fuck am I going to do? I don't know. I hear she's got lasagna, so I'm going to go over there. Let's just put it that way.

You want me to go over now? I'm going to have to fucking figure out how to pet that dog again. Oh, Jesus. All right, let me just make a sandwich and I'll be there. Sandwich. Let me just make a sandwich and I'll be there. Sandwich. Let me just make a sandwich and I'll get over there. Right? Okay.

So he agreed and he tries to call his daughter twice. Both times there's no answer. So now this is all the times that the husband's called and now he's called. And it's not like there's caller ID and she's ignoring them on purpose. They're calling in the middle of the night. She should answer and she's not. So he gets worried and he decides to go over there. He drives over to her apartment

and when he arrives there the front door is ajar. Bad sign. Whenever any of these cases happen that we've talked about and someone arrives at an apartment where there's questionable shit going on and the door's ajar. It's already open. Always bad at that

point. People close their door when they're in good health. When they're all alive and all their blood's in their body, they tend to close doors. You rarely walk into a house that the door is open at 2 or 3 a.m. and she's sitting there having a glass of wine watching Golden Girls.

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of the TV series every Saturday on Reels Channel. So the front door's open, all the lights are on, which is strange at two in the morning, and the television is blaring, like excessively loud, like louder than anyone would listen to it, you know, at a normal place. So he's thinking something's probably wrong here. So he rushes into the apartment, looks all around for Dawn, and ends up finding her in the bedroom.

This is rough. This is rough, so buckle up. Let's put it that way. There's a couple of rough things in this one, and this is the worst of all of it. He finds her. She has no clothes on. She is bleeding. She's in her bedroom.

And there is, say this, there is a condiment bottle protruding from her. No way. From her, yes. This poor girl, she's, that's so, I mean, she's obviously been assaulted sexually. And God knows what other else has been done to her because she's bleeding profusely. He attempts to give her CPR, which imagine having to give your daughter CPR in that situation. It's just like, I feel for this poor guy. I mean, both of them.

This is just a nightmare. Where do you even start? Do you know what I mean? That's what I mean. What do you do? When you see that scene, do you like try to make her decent? I don't know. That's the thing.

There's so many things. And that's the thing you hear about a lot. Like in the homicide book, they talk about a lot is you'll find a crime scene altered. And they're like, oh, is this – and the cops originally because they're all looking for serial killers all the time. They're like, oh, it's staging and this and that. And it's not staging. It was the relatives found first and tried to cover them up or tried to – Tried to make them –

Tried to give them dignity basically. And that's what happens. So that ends up what happens here. hover them up or tried to make them try to make, try to give them dignity basically. And you know, that's what happens. So, you know, that ends up what happens here. So he's doing it as he's giving her CPR. He noticed there's just blood pouring out of her forehead.

So he calls 911 right then the paramedics arrive after that. They begin CPR, but there's no reason to do it. She's, she's long gone. Poor Don here. So the detectives get there at about 2.30 in the morning. Baltimore County Police detectives, Detective James Roeder gets there.

He arrives there. He looks over the crime scene. He says when he entered the apartment, he saw no signs of forced entry. As we found out before, she let him inside. When he gets inside, he observed a bra and a pair of pants, tennis shoes and a shirt and a sweater were on the floor near the sofa in the living room. The pants were inside out, which is a bad sign. That's when you're forcibly taking. Somebody took them off of you. Exactly. Not not.

You didn't help at all. He also said the the bra was not unhooked, but was ripped on the side, which is insane. The pants, like I said, were inside out. Also, he noticed a small piece of rubber on the floor near the television set. It's like a little chunk of rubber, so they bagged that also.

In the bedroom, he finds two spent.25 caliber shell casings on the bed, one of which was lying on top of a shirt. The shirt was bloodstained and had a bullet hole in it, obviously. It was an obvious bullet hole. So they do the autopsy on her, and they find out that poor Dawn here was, she died as a

result of two contact gunshot wounds. Oh, my fuck. It was pressed against her. Yeah. One of them entered at her left eyebrow and the other one at her right ear. So this is fucking horrible. And she was sexually assaulted.

All that took place before she died. So he did all that to her and then put a gun against her head and shot her twice. Once wasn't enough, God forbid. So Jesus Christ. Obviously, the last person to see her was her brother, Frederick, who went over. And he must have felt fucking horrible.

I can't imagine. It's not his fault. He just went over to get keys. There's no reason for him to feel terrible. But if I went over and I saw my sister and then I knew as soon as I left this happened, I would never – I don't know how I would feel about that. That would be horrible. So I went to sleep in my apartment one night when I was, I don't know, 22, 21. And my sister lived with me, my little sister.

And a boy dropped her off, put her inside the house. Later on the living room floor, she was passed out drunk. And I was like this bitch again with the fucking drinking. And I went the fuck back to bed. I woke up in the morning with banging on my door. My sister had gotten up and gone outside to go to the bathroom. Outside? She was drunk.

Drunk. Super drunk. Blackout drunk. Blackout drunk. That makes sense. I won't give her personal business. She did it a lot. Yeah.

15 years ago. That's fine. I'm sure she's fine now. She's not. I tried to give you an out. I tried to give you an out. Yeah, she's doing much better. So the point is, I got a banging on my door.

I come outside. There's paramedics there. My sister's on the ground with her pants down around her ankles. And they're talking about taking her to the hospital, do a rape kit. They take her to the hospital. They do the rape kit. Turns out she went outside to piss. Thank Christ.

Otherwise, I would have felt like the worst human being ever. Yeah, I bet. You didn't wake her up and put her in bed and all that. No, I just was like, fuck you. You sleep there. Yeah. And then I wake up to that shit. Oh, my God.

So for like three hours until they got the results back, I was panicking, losing my mind. And she didn't know because she was black. No, she had no fucking idea. Oh, my God. That's a nightmare. They fucking did.'t know because she was black. No, she had no fucking idea. Oh, my God. That's a nightmare. Somebody could have run a train on her and she wouldn't have known. She was so drunk. Jesus Christ. Horrible.

So this guy, point is, I can't imagine what he must be going through. Yeah, because he knows the worst has occurred. And not only did that happen, but then she was fucking murdered on top. There's no coming back from it at all here. Now, afterwards, the police canvassed the neighborhood. And it's the Lincoln Woods Complex in White Marsh, and they all report an intoxicated man matching the description of Stephen Okun

been knocking on doors, like we said, alternately claiming to be a physician whose pager went off, a stranded motorist needing assistance, a boyfriend who's been kicked out of his house, and, if that's not enough, a Baltimore County police officer. Uh-oh. I saved that one for now. You can't do that.

That's so stupid because that's real easy to prove. Right. Where's your badge? Right. Okay, then. Have a good one. Click. You may as well knock on the door and say, I'm here to rape and murder you.

Yeah. What the fuck? You can't. I'm a cop. Okay, where's your badge? I don't have one. You're not a fucking cop, then. Must have left it.

That's what makes a cop. At the station, you know. That's what makes a cop. At the station, you know. That's what makes a cop is the badge part. I was calling to get my badge back. If you could give me my phone. He's like, I need a phone to call. Without that, you're just a guy. You're just a weirdo.

An armed man at that point. You're a woman or whatever. You're not, you have no authority without the badge. The badge is the whole point of the thing. That's the whole thing that makes us do what you want us to do. That's it. Because outside of that, you're just robbing people. That helps, too.

But the gun is mainly behind the badge because you know they can shoot you and get away with it because of said badge. Rather than just a regular guy, you're like, hey, he doesn't want to go to prison. He won't kill me. It's that sort of thing. You're like, oh, shit, he'll get away with this shit. I better do what he says. Right. So, wow.

get away with this shit. I better do what he says. Right. Wow. Now, he's Oaken. They don't know anything about him at the moment though. There's a description that fits him but they don't know who it fits. They just know that it fits somebody. So they're just like this random guy. They have a description. They have a sketch.

They have all of that but they don't really have anything else to go on for that. Now we introduce Patricia Hirt. H-I-R-T. Does that sound familiar to you? He married a woman named Phyllis Hirt. And this is her sister. So his sister-in-law.

His sister-in-law. She is 43 years old. She's married. She has two kids. They're 17 and 18 years old at the time in 1987. Her youngest daughter Jessica had a 17-month-old girl and twins on the way. Holy shit. At 17.

Whew. Boy, that's a Betty Lou Beats kind of life she's got going on right there. That's three kids before you're 18. Holy shit. There's a lot behind that. Wow. God damn. I don't even know what to say about that, but never mind that.

I feel terrible for her. That's a tough life. That's a tough life, man. Unless that's what she was wanting. That's the thing. Who knows? I don't that's what she was wanting that's the thing who knows i don't even know what she maybe that's but i oh jesus christ wow three kids by 17 if you're 17 and you want that you're out of your fucking mind you don't want that yeah in five years you're gonna be going what's happening no you don't want that wait till later so uh she is a longtime administrative secretary at Johns Hopkins Hospital. Everyone loves her at work.

She's known as a really nice person. Everybody likes her. She worked to make the money to send her daughters to Notre Dame Prep School, a good private high school in the area. Because Baltimore is one of those places where the schools are a little touchy. A little shady. Especially back then. They were a little touchy. A little shady. Especially back then. They were a little touchy, we'll say. And, yeah, so a little squirrely.

So she has brown hair, brown eyes. She's known as an attractive person, very caring. She volunteers at the Special Olympics. She likes to ski. Yeah, she's a nice person. Everybody likes her very, very much. The previous weekend, this is November 9th. I'm sorry, November 16th.

The previous weekend, they had gone to – she went with her daughter to a mother-daughter weekend at Hood College in Frederick. The daughters had to check out the college. So she's involved with her kid's life. She's loved by her workers, by her coworkers. She's a nice person. She helps out Special Olympics. She gives a shit. She gives a shit. She's a with her kid's life. She's loved by her workers, by her coworkers. She's a nice person. She helps out Special Olympics. She gives a shit. She gives a shit.

She's a decent person here. Now, so on 9 a.m. on November 16th, 1987, a Sergeant Sidney Branham of Baltimore County Police Department, he was patrolling White Marsh, that area, when he received a dispatch of a, quote, suspicious condition, which is weird. It's concerning a missing person at 62 Stillwood Circle. It's a townhouse, which is the residence of Stephen and his wife Phyllis. Okay. Now, this sergeant goes that he said he was met by four people outside of the home. One of them was a Miss Danielle Jones. She informed the sergeant that, quote, she had reason to believe her sister, Patricia Hurt, was missing and that some harm had come to her.

And she came to 62 Stillwood Circle to locate her sister. So this is another sister. This is another one of Stephen's sister-in-law saying my sister's gone, not the sister who's married to Stephen, the other sister. This is another one of Stephen's sister-in-law saying, my sister's gone. Not the sister who's married to Stephen, the other sister. Okay. So it's confusing when you got Patricia's and Phyllis's and Hertz and people around. And I got all P names. All the P names, God damn it. So yeah.

So Jones also said to Sergeant Branham when she said when she arrived, she found the door to the residence partly ajar. Yeah. Again, bad. And entered. She said that while she was inside the house, she noticed the door to the residence partly ajar. Again, bad. And entered. She said that while she was inside the house, she noticed that it was in complete disarray and there was blood on the floor near the entrance, which obviously isn't normally there. That's not a normal condition of the home. Even people with like dumpy houses where it's always a mess, there's never blood on the floor usually.

If there is, that's a problem. That's an issue. You know, they go, what happened? I hope your dog's got in a fight or something. Jesus. You get a nosebleed? What's going on around here? I hope your dog nipped the other one. That happens once in a while. You say, where's that blood coming from? You see a tiny, tiny little

nip on your dog's. The other one got him. You're like, you little assholes. Stop biting each other. The moment when white trash realizes when they bought a dog that female dogs also go into heat. Yeah, you need to get them fixed. And you got to figure that shit out. You got to go ahead and get them fixed or else that shit's going to be— Otherwise your dog will bleed all over your fucking house.

Yeah. That's a weird one. That's bizarre. You can't be like, tampons or pads? It doesn't work like that. No. Not at all here. So on the basis of all this, on the basis of hearing that there's blood in the entryway,

so the sergeant hears about the story from Jones, and he decided that he and a Lieutenant Harvey should enter the house, quote, to see if there was anyone injured into the house and look for any possible suspect with an injury. You know, whatever. So once inside the house, they make some observations. They see the blood smeared on the floor in the entranceway and on the doorpost. They find a towel lying on top of a trash can in the kitchen, which with what appeared to be a lot of dried blood stains on it. Also, articles of women's clothing strewn about the floor in the living room.

Now, the sergeant, when he leaves the house, he posted an officer at the front door to secure the premises until a search warrant could be obtained. So he went in based on the possible danger, which is legal. That's a legal entry. And then he left to get a search warrant, which is all on the up and up. That's procedurally exactly what you're supposed to do. Up and up. That's procedurally exactly what you're supposed to do. Later that morning, about a half hour later, about 10 a.m., Detective Charles Naylor of the Baltimore County Police Department gets a telephone call asking him to proceed to an area near Interstate 95 and White Marsh Boulevard in Baltimore County where they have discovered the body of a dead woman who had been found lying – had been found by the Maryland State Police Department.

This detective nailer went to the area to investigate. He finds out – finds a dead woman there, and they do a little bit of investigation. It doesn't take a whole lot to find out that that is Patricia Hurt. She is – she's nude in a ditch basically. As horrible as just you can't have any less regard for a human being than to just have them be nude and thrown in a ditch. So awful. Just you have no giving a fuck. You've decided they're not even a human anymore.

You've decided they're a discarded carpet. Is that worse than throwing them in a trash can? I think it is. I feel like it is. I feel like the trash can isn't even good enough for a rolled up carpet. You know what I mean? Yeah, we're splitting hairs, obviously. But I feel like at least the trash can is protected from elements.

You're putting something in there. It's almost like a coffin, kind of. It's a disposal. It's a burial, at least. You're just protected from the elements and from animals and shit like that. This is just throwing it out. You're throwing it out to be taken by the elements for animals to pick at just for you don't care. You have no respect for them.

It's disturbing to me. It's much worse. I don't know why that disturbs me so much here. It feels worse. It really does. So after that, this detective Naylor is sent to 62 Stillwood Circle where he met with the other sergeant, Sergeant Branham. And Sergeant Branham tells Detective Naylor of his observations inside, all the blood and the towel with the blood and all that. So based on all of these observations and the discovery of Patricia Hurt's body, Detective Naylor prepares an affidavit, gets a search and seizure warrant.

They get the warrant signed. They come back to 62 Stillwood Circle to execute the warrant. During the search, they find some shit. They find a.25 caliber handgun in the dresser drawer of the master bedroom. Do a little forensics matchup on that bad boy. That is the weapon that killed Don Garvin. So that's not smart right away. So Stephen Okun is fucked right now as it is. Like right now he's fucked.

Turns out after he killed Patricia Hurt, by the way, also sexually assaulted her. Of course. Sexually assaulted her, shot her multiple times and threw her in a ditch nude. So yeah. But plus the balls on this fucking guy. Yeah, that's your fucking, she's related to you. Not only that, he did all this. There was women's clothing and, and, and, and blood all in the house.

So he did this in the house, his own place, then took her bloody naked body out to his car, put it in there, drove, got out of his car and dumped a bloody naked woman in the, in the, in the ditch. That is a dirty Blake. Uh, I can't even say it. and dumped a bloody naked woman in the ditch. That is a bloody naked woman in a ditch that happens to be your sister-in-law. Happens to be your sister-in-law. It's fucking crazy. Not fucking smart at all. And really just, I mean, I don't know if that's you've lost your mind

and you've decided I don't give a fuck. Or if you're drunk and I don't understand I don't know what that's one of those trying to pinpoint what where the problem is whether it's just lack of just disregard for everything or is this a Dahmer situation or is this like so calculated that I'll clean it up in my own place later yeah fuck it I can get away with I'm good yeah and then he's drunk and forgets yeah so after he kills Patricia Hurdy also steals her car yeah because what the fuck why not he'd say progression yeah 1979 white mustang uh white ford mustang he steals uh which

those were those are really bad yeah i can see it in my head the long nose like 80 horsepower those are awful short ass end and the long front end it was weird he didn't discriminate for cars though he stole the car and he drives the car northward and ends up in Kittery, Maine. Okay. Hey, look at that. Look where we are now. And he registers at the Coachman Motor Inn, the hotel, using his real name and address. Wow.

Which you didn't have to do in 1987 at all. Like, you could have said you were Joe Blow and give him 50 bucks, and they'll give you a fucking key to a room. They don't care. There's no incidentals or any of that bullshit. An actual metal key, though. Yeah, an actual key to the room and you go in there and that was that. With the key hanger that says the room number.

Exactly, yeah, in case you lose it. And it was written in fucking black ink on a green fucking tag. Or brown with gold letters. Neither one. That was a big one, too, for hotels. Brown with gold letters. But those always had the elevator that had the screen that you pulled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So this is November 16th. This is the same. So she is freshly dead in the ditch here, and he is in Maine that day. He heads up to Maine immediately. Ready to be a boat constructor. That's it. He's ready to do it. He checks into room 48 of the Coachman Motor Inn in Kittery.

It's approximately 1 p.m. He says he only wants the room for one night. He paid for the room with a credit card in advance and received the credit card receipt. So he paid for it in advance, didn't want to be bothered at the time. Problem is, working at this hotel was a woman named Lori Ward. Lori Ward was a tall, thin woman. People liked her. She lived in her sister and family lives in Rockville.

They all said she was very pretty. She called herself an ugly duckling, but her sister said that no one else felt that way about her. The pretty girls always say that. They always do, especially the tall ones. Well, the tall ones, they're just like they feel too tall in the seventh grade. I will climb that tree. That's what I was going to say. It's not a bad thing.

I would look stupid having sex with a tall woman, but God damn it, I can't wait to try it. She was at this time, Lori Ward was living with her parents in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. She's taking classes at the University of New Hampshire, and she's working part-time at the Coachman Motor Inn. So she's just making pocket money and shit after that. She said that after Christmas, because this is November, she was just going to work

through the Christmas season and then stop working to concentrate on her degree, her veterinary degree that she wanted. So she wanted to quit this, just make a little extra holiday money, and then she was going to buckle down for school. She absolutely did. That was the huge thing with her was animals.

They say even as a little girl she loved animals. When she was about 10, she got a miniature poodle and named her Misty, which she still has this poodle. Most of those victims having poodles. That's so weird, right? this poodle. Most of those victims have poodles. That's so weird, right? Another poodle. It was the family's dog, but the poodle loved her and followed her everywhere. It was like that was her dog, basically.

Now, he arrived at 1.30. Sometime between 5.24 and 6.30 p.m., Lori Ward was shot and killed and sexually assaulted also. She was sexually assaulted, and she was put into these – you know how like every hotel has that little room they go into behind the counter? Yeah, yeah. Where they – I don't know what's in there, a copy machine or something. Tiny toothpaste. Tiny – all their little tiny toothbrushes and toothpaste. And that's where they found her, in that little room behind the front desk there.

They end up – what they do is they – the police, the Kittery Police Department, respond to a distress call from the motel, and that's where they discover her there. Oaken takes off from there. Fuck this night's stay. Obviously, he didn't plan on doing this, I feel like. Does he get drunk and then have the balls to do it? Because I feel like he got there at one thirty. So four hours went by. He had time to do whatever, get drunk, whatever the fucking case was.

Otherwise, he wouldn't. I doubt that he would have paid for a night in advance and with a credit card, especially and all that. If he was planning on killing this woman, real name, he would have just assaulted her, shot her, left her there and took off without ever checking in. I would imagine it's fucking brazen and ballsy as shit to do it and then put her behind the front desk. You're dragging a dead woman into a closet. Or maybe he did it in there.

Who knows? That's what I think. He killed her in there because they sexually assaulted her, too. So I imagine that wasn't right behind the counter in case somebody walked in. He did that with all the shit that I forgot. That's so horrible. Yeah, man. That's bad shit.

The tiny deodorant and the fucking mouthwash. This is terrible. It's fucking awful. So theodorant and the fucking mouthwash. This is terrible. It's fucking awful. So the Kittery Police Department, they find her there. Oaken takes off in the car and heads to Freeport. He checks into the Freeport Inn, which is about an hour drive away from the Coachman. He checks in at 7.54 p.m. So, yeah, he killed her, hopped in the car, gets up there.

Yeah, gets up there. Yeah, gets up there. Now, about one hour before checkout, so we're talking about 10 a.m., 11 a.m. in the morning here the next morning, November 17th. So he's had a busy day. He left down there with the car, killed his sister-in-law, killed another poor woman and stuffed her in her little room. he paid for additional, before checkout, he paid for an additional night stay at the Freeport Inn. He never officially, also never officially checked out of the Coachman. This isn't like now with the cards where you just leave the car behind and leave. Back then you actually had to go checking out of this room and then mark it down, okay, he left.

You got to turn the key in. That's what you did. You know, you literally had to, here's that key. We need it for the maid. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly mark it down. Okay, he left. That was, you know. You got to turn the key in. That's what you did. You know, you literally had to. Here's that key. We needed it for the maid, right? Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it was. So just after 6.50 p.m., he's already gone, heading to Freeport. The police banged on the door of every motel room in the Coachman, including room 48.

No response in room 48 because he was already gone. The police then began a police log where they talked to every single person and every vehicle entering and exiting the motel. They never found Okun because they were looking for Okun at this point now. Now they matched everything up and they knew what they were looking for. While driving around the building at 4.45 a.m., the Coachman's manager noticed that Okun's car was not in the lot. This is the white Mustang. She said that there were no real restaurants or nothing open in the area at the time where he could have been getting a meal.

Nowhere for him to be. So, yeah, like where did he go unless he was gone? So that says to them that he's gone. So 7.30 a.m. the next day, the motel manager wanted to have the housekeeper start stripping and cleaning the unoccupied rooms. Based on the fact, this is important later, this is the only reason I'm telling you this. Based on the fact that he had said he would only stay one night, paid in advance, and his car was gone, they believed it was unoccupied. He had already left and checked out. They'd find the key in there probably, who knows.

But either way, they got to clean the room. That sort of thing. The police indicated they'd come over to the hotel. The manager chose to not clean up the room and wait for the police. They said, don't fucking clean anything. Don't touch a goddamn thing. We want to go through that one room real thoroughly here.

So they do that. They get there. It's unoccupied. Police had knocked at and entered every unoccupied room until they reached room 48 because they wanted to say they were thorough. They get there 830 a.m. The door is unlocked in room 48. So the police enter the room. It contains what they find in there, a bottle of vodka, half gallon of orange juice, which explains a lot. Screwdrivers is that.

Yep. Glasses, like, you know, to drink out of, not wear, not vision, eyeglasses, a few small pieces of rope, a pair of socks on the floor, a shirt with bloodstains on it, and blood smudged on the wall of the bathroom. There was no toiletry articles, no personal articles, no luggage, no type of handbag, no type of any type of personal belongings. Looked like somebody left a bloody shirt and took off and fucking abandoned the room. Okay.

Already didn't left. Absolutely. So they, the managers told the police that Okun was the last person to have that room. They said, so they looked up Okun and they went, oh yeah, he's wanted for two homicides. This is bad. Yeah. His, his car that he's driving is stolen, the whole deal. So with the manager's consent, they search the room again to make sure.

At approximately 5.10 p.m. on November 17th, because this is all happening on November 17th. This shit happens very quickly. About 5.10 p.m., Oken is contacted by the Freeport police. And they were trying to persuade him to surrender peacefully. They're like, look, dude, we know who you are. We know where you are. We're outside. They found the key outside in his car.

They found the room 48 coachman key in his car. So they're like, you need to come the fuck out. By the way, also at the coachman, $300 was missing from the cash register. So that's what that girl's life is worth, $300 to him. I'm sure he wanted to sexually assault her anyway, probably based on his history. But $300 is the bottom line there. The thought of somebody on the run is crazy. You're going to run from hotel to hotel?

You got $300 in your pocket? Ridiculous. How far do you think you're going to fucking go? So stupid. And luckily, this motel's manager heard the radio report about the murder and had a description of the Mustang. And then this guy 10 minutes later pulls in with a fucking white Mustang. And they're like, well, that seems right. So they called the police to say, I think this is the guy you want.

And then the cops showed up and were like, that's the car we want. So, yeah, probably. Mustang and running around like this and stealing is like, this is very male Thelma and Louise. But the rape is going the other way. Minus any righteousness at all. That's the difference here. Is he going to flip this shit into the Grand Canyon? What's his end game here?

This doesn't make any sense. I fucking hope so at this point. I wish he would. He talks on the phone with the police negotiators for a few minutes, and then he yells out, I'm coming out. Don't shoot. Okay. Okay. He comes out of room 215 unarmed.

He surrenders peacefully to Maine State Police. More than 20. They had 20 officers and a bunch of tactical units surrounding them. This is like all hands on deck because I don't know. He's armed everywhere. Police, when they enter the room, they found, or I'm sorry, when they enter his car, they find not only the key, they find bloodstains all over. Because he's been transporting a dead woman before. Also, they find an AR-15 rifle.

Whoa. So he's got a fucking machine gun and a.380 caliber automatic pistol. Yeah. This is the one used to kill both Patricia Hurt and Lori Ward. Wow. The forensics match it up or ballistics match it up to them. So he is just making this case ironclad,

I would say here. Here's a sad thing, and everyone's going to say this is the saddest thing. After Lori Ward's murder, Misty the poodle stopped eating and died. Oh my God. Yeah, so that was how sad, even the dog was sad. The dog was like, nobody knows how to pet me.

Nobody knows how to pet me. I have weird fur. I quit. And died. That's bananas. So that's so fucking sad. Yeah. That's, oh, dogs are fucking great.

Aren't they? That's amazing. Yeah. So people are like, what the fuck, basically. He ends up, you know, they arrest him, obviously. They didn't, like, give him a talking to and let him go. Talked to him for a couple hours. I said, I think he learned his lesson.

I think it only ended the way it did because that AR-15 was in the car. That's what I'm saying. Or he was sober. Yeah. Or both. He's like, I'm not drunk and I don't have my weapon. So they don't know what to make of this shit with him because it's not your normal guy. He's a married guy.

He's a younger guy. He's got a family. Like, they're like, what is he doing? Everybody we've talked about it. Does he fit the profile really? No, nothing really. I mean, outside of, he fits the profile of like a teen killer.

Yeah. Kind of. Like there's been like that upper middle class. He got that shitty news right away. Yeah. When he was nine, was he? Or 11. 11.

Like he fits the description to me of somebody who's like 16 and kills their parents. Right. You know what I'm saying? But not this later. It's just so weird. His varsity lacrosse coach talks about him. Lincoln Bogart. Yeah.

It's all Lincoln Bogart. Wow. What a name. He sounds like he's coaching something, doesn't he? Lincoln Bogart. He sounds like a Texas Marshal or some Texas Ranger something doesn't he lincoln bogart he sounds like a texas marshal or some texas ranger he's hard as fuck whatever he does texas ranger he makes you do what you're gonna do he's a hardened hard man right well he's a lacrosse coach in randallstown so maybe not uh he says quote lots of kids have tendencies where they

might take the wrong road but steve wasn't one of them. There was nothing abnormal about him as far as a sex maniac killer. I never saw it. He was a nice guy and got A's in all my classes. So that's what I mean. We don't usually hear that. Usually it's they're troubled or something like that here. The Kittery, Maine police chief, Edward Strong, said the Lori Ward murder was extremely difficult for him because at the time his daughter was the same age as her, which is anytime we hear about 16-year-old girls, I'm like, no, Jesus.

He said, quote, the poor girl was working her way through school and putting herself through college. Okun just checked into the motel and a couple hours later murdered her. This individual brutally murdered the three women. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have murdered again if we wouldn't have caught him, I would say. He said, I've never in my law enforcement career seen a person who deserves the death penalty more than this individual. I'm just glad they have the death penalty in Maryland because they don't have it in Maine at this point, but they just got it back in Maryland. So everyone's kind of, let's get him down to Maryland ASAP. What do you say, guys? Let's jumpstart our machines. Let's go ahead and do that. Yeah, so they have the trial, obviously.

He does not plead or anything like that. No plea. He's going for it. He claims in the court proceedings that he couldn't even remember what happened. He claimed before he couldn't remember what happened the night that Garvin, that Don, was killed. He said it was a memory lapse based on booze. What if we showed you some pictures? Yeah, what'd you do with that?

Jog your memory a little bit? He said, a memory lapse I blame on booze, pills, and a sexual sadism that I can't control. So that's what he said. Exactly. One maybe I'll take your word with that, and we'll put you in a mental facility the rest of your fucking life. I was going to say, the sexual sadism isn't

an excuse. No. That's a reason, not an excuse. I'm really sorry. I'm a sexual sadist. What can I tell you? No shit. You're going to be in a padded room the rest of your life. Jesus Christ. A psychiatrist who testified for him, quote, after he recovered his memory late in the trial.

Sometime late in the trial, he out of nowhere remembered what happened. It just flooded. Weird, right? Isn't that weird how that happens so strange how that happens and uh the the psychiatrist got from from him the uh the details of what he did to garvin and uh yeah i mean it's fucking ridiculous uh hear that that was his first one that was the well that we know of yeah that's a really really vicious quote-unquote first crime it's a is it's vicious and b it is fucking brazen yeah it's the actions of uh to be able to talk someone into something especially if you're impaired and then be able to go through with that right that's practice like that's

surprising that that's a first kill. And taking it as far as he did with condiments involved. Oh, he got... Like foreign objects. It's fucking crazy. He really did. They say that the evidence, obviously, was strong. They had a murder weapon that they found in his possession, in his home. They found the portion of rubber that they found at the house, a little thing of rubber,

matched up to a chunk of Okun's tennis shoe also. So you can't get many more dead to rights than this guy in evidence. How do you get to such a point that you're beating somebody that a piece of your shoe comes off? And you don't even notice. You don't even know. Wow. Wow.

That's insane, right? Also, like I said, several witnesses, they had all the neighborhood witnesses go, yeah, that's the guy who tried to get in my house and knocked on the door and all that sort of thing here. Apparently he'd been doing this for a couple days prior to this. He just kept going back and seeing if anybody would crack and let him in. He was like, I'm going to kill somebody. I'll come back tomorrow if I have to. But someone's getting raped.

If you're looking for rainbow trout, you don't quit after the first time you bait it. That's true, man. You'd pick another spot and maybe a different lure. Try a different bait. That's what happens, man. Put some power bait on there. Put a hot dog. Put some corn.

You'll figure it out. Fuck, man. So January 18th, 1991, the jury here, he entered a plea of not criminally responsible, obviously. And the trial was bifurcated. We've talked about that before uh basically uh it was a bifurcated hearing on issues of guilt or innocence and criminal responsibility uh he elected to have the court decide whether or not he was criminally responsible uh based on his fucking you know his mental whatever the hell. So the jury says, fuck yeah you are.

They convict him here on first degree murder of Don Garvin, first degree burglary and use of a handgun in the commission of a violent crime. Which? Okay. So we have sentencing. Yeah. That is some aggravating shit right there. There's burglary. There's sexual assault.

So January 25th, 1991 is the sentencing hearing. Okun's own expert testified on cross-examination during the sentencing phase. Shit that is not good for him. He said, quote, I was told by Mr. Okun that he approached the victim outside the apartment, asked if he could use the phone, made his way into her apartment, looked about, shut the door, took out a gun and asked that she get undressed. He asked her to begin masturbating. He masturbated. At the same time, he then asked her to get up and perform oral sex on her, on him. He then pushed her back.

He got on top of her and he tried to rape her. He did it in multiple different positions. He even tried to go the back route. He got up at some point. I like what you did. That seemed less, I don't know. He got up at some point, goes into the kitchen because he's having trouble performing. So he is mad at her because obviously that's her fault.

Obviously. That's what all these fucking guys think. So he goes back into the kitchen and brings back a bottle. And I didn't tell you what it was before because I didn't want to. But it's a jerky's hot sauce bottle. No. Yeah. It makes it worse for some reason.

Yeah. I don't know why, but it makes so much. I mean, ketchup at least doesn't burn. This is vicious. A hot sauce bottle. How do you look through the pantry and be like, this is the one? Yes. Well, he forced her to masturbate with the bottle.

He forced her to whatever with herself with the bottle while he was masturbating at the same time. Hold on. So he couldn't get it up. He couldn't finish okay that was his problem listen i can't come unless you use this so he was trying yeah he's like what the fuck put this in you and make it work and it's a sick fuck and this is crazy this is insane this i mean this is all very rough uh i'm very uncomfortable telling you this if i'm being fucking honest with you i don't't blame you. It's horrific.

So he is masturbating at the same time, and then he became angry because he couldn't finish. And so he killed her. He became angry that he couldn't finish, so he shot her. You're not hot enough, apparently. You're not doing whatever it is that I need you to do. I have rage at my own shitty dick. My dick sucks, so that's your fault. People need to die because my dick sucks.

Do you know how few people have to be in a room for me to come? That's what I'm saying. It's ridiculous. Fuck. So the jury hears all of this bullshit here. Obviously, this isn't going to be good if you're judging what to do from someone. You hear about hot sauce bottles. So the jury says, you, sir, may fuck off. That is a death penalty for you, asshole.

The trial judge also imposes sentences of life imprisonment for the first degree sexual offense and a consecutive term of 20 years for the burglary and a consecutive term of 20 years for the use of a handgun in commission of a crime. He, of course, appeals everything. But that and – So his lawyer said my client told me all of this. Yeah, not his lawyer. Like a doctor, a psychiatrist. Oh, my God.

And he's going, what the fuck? Shut up. Everything that he's told is it's a court thing. That's what he's there for. He's sitting there doing the fucking cut it out motion. He's there saying, this is how disturbed I am. Keep going. Say how disturbed I am.

Oh, really? So they'll think I'm disturbed. Well, that's a big dumb move. His only shot was he couldn't go up there and be like, I'm really a nice guy. He'd be like, no, you're fucking not. I'll give you one, which I won't. But even if we give you one, there's two more, dickhead. So you're not a nice fucking guy.

His only hope was, I'm so fucked. Look how depraved i am that's not normal obviously i'm crazy put me in a fucking in an institution uh so uh he's also sentenced for the uh for patricia hurt he's sentenced to life uh down there in maryland and he's sentenced to life in maine also right uh for the lori war way to go so everybody convicts him all around. It's open and shut, these cases. His parents are behind him 100%. This is what I mean. My parents would be like,

we never fucking met him before. Who is he? Don't fucking know him. His parents are like, we love you still. Holy shit. James who? I'd never heard of him. Never heard of him. My dad would be like, my name's James. I don't know if that's who you're talking to. I didn't do anything. I didn't kill anybody.

Let me show you my Harley. Yeah, I got a nice Harley. Not me, but my dad. His parents, from the time of the arrest, unconditional support. They pay his expensive legal and psychiatric bills. Wow. They spend time with him. His father said, quote, he is my son.

It's horrible. We close our eyes sometimes and hope it will all go away. But then you realize it happened and it's a fact and you have to deal with it. Wow. No shit. Okun files a motion to suppress all evidence obtained during the police's warrantless entry into room 48 of the hotel. Really? That's what he's doing.

He's saying this whole thing. This is annoying here. He's saying they need a motion. they need a warrant to search the room and they're saying you abandon the room so no base that's why i told you all of his shit was gone no toiletries no personal effects and his car was gone from the middle of the night so they said he checked out so and they're the way they're looking at it it's an unoccupied room what he's also trying to do not only to get that evidence suppressed but they're trying to say that evidence led to the discovery of the other evidence found at his room at the Freeport Inn, the search of his automobiles, all of his automobile, all of his statements to the police, and the search of his person. He says all that should be thrown out.

Yeah. Everything. Basically everything but his house. Yeah. Which would still be enough. It's funny. Because that had the gun that had shot Don. So you're still at the fucking death penalty. That's just one.

He's trying to do that here, which still that's the one that's the important one. So, you know, I mean, they're all important. It's not the people, but that's the important one legally because that's the one that's going to kill him here. After the hearing, the superior court denied the motion to suppress, quote, in all respects. They said, fuck no. They said the motion determined at the time of the warrantless – basically, he had no reasonable expectation of privacy in a room that he abandoned. He also found there was nothing to taint the later searches in Freeport because there was no illegality into the initial entry in the Coachman.

So, eat dick, sir. There was no illegality into the initial entry in the Coachman. So, eat dick, sir. They also found they're trying to – the jury found as an aggravating factor that Oken committed the murder while committing or attempting to commit a first-degree sexual offense. So, it says the – this is the court document here. With respect to the statutory mitigating circumstances, the jury was not able to unanimously agree that any existed. Nevertheless, one or more of the jurors, but fewer than all 12, did find the following mitigating circumstances to exist. The fact that he has an existing life sentence, sexual sadism, and substance abuse. abuse. Now, they say that their review of similar cases reveals that death sentences have been imposed in a number of cases where the aggravating circumstance of the murder was that the defendant

committed it while committing or attempting to commit a sexual offense in the first degree on the victim. Considering Okun and the heinous nature of the crime, we conclude that the death sentence was neither excessive nor disproportionate. We are also satisfied that his death sentence was not imposed under the influence of passion, prejudice, or any arbitrary factors other than we really want this piece of shit to die. I never want that said about me. No.

All of that sounds terrible. Satisfied that death sentence was not imposed under influence of passion, prejudice, or any arbitrary factors. We want this guy to die so bad is what they're fucking saying here. Arbitrary factors. We want this guy to die so bad is what they're fucking saying here. Oken argues that the also there's advice on whether he's supposed to testify or not is a thing. Apparently, he asked advice. And it's a really weird exchange where the judge asked him if he's had an opportunity to consult with his counsel in respect to testifying or not.

He says he has. Then they ask him if he's going to testify or not. And he says, I have not come to a decision on that. I'd like to wait until the report of the prosecution's psychiatrist. The judge says, well, that's not going to be presented because their case is over. We've moved on to you now. So whatever the fuck he says, are you goddamn testifying or not? So he says that he talked to the doctor last night and that now he's not going to testify.

So he says he won't testify. And he's saying that both his lawyer gave him bad advice and the judge steered him toward not testifying, which hurt him. Yeah, that's what he's trying to say. No, no, no, dude. Nobody. It's never going to hurt you. He's blaming the judge. It's never going to hurt you to not talk.

Exactly. Especially this asshole because they got him dead to rights on everything. So why was the two guns that killed two women, three women in your fucking possession? Can I decline to testify now? Now that I'm up here, can I say no? I had had a couple. Can I go? Because this is, I was going to tell you I was drinking.

Have you had a screwdriver? Have you had one? It seems silly to say now when we're sitting here. It seemed like a good excuse at the time. But now that I'm in court, you guys are all looking at me kind of funny. I feel like maybe I didn't make the right call. Do you use Tropicana or Minute Maid? Because I think I can make a really good one for you right now.

Can I not do this now? Please. Can I change my mind? Can I get a drink? Is there a waitress coming around to this section? Is there a server serving here? Would you like to testify? I would. Did you murder? I don't think I want to do

this anymore. I think I changed my mind. Jesus Christ, man. So the court says, appeals court says, in light of this record we find no clear indication that the trial court's advice regarding Okun's right to testify had any influence on his decision not to testify. They said he acknowledged consulting with the defense counsel.

He had all the advice in the world. Then he was given additional opportunity to consult with his attorney about testifying after the judge gave his advice. Therefore, he did not knowingly or intelligently voluntarily. Fuck you is what they say. Eat shit. There's several women that aren't alive now. Can we not talk about your appeals anymore, too? Fuck, he's got one more.

His pretrial suppression motions. He says that the hearing court erred in denying his motion to suppress evidence seized in a search of his home in Maryland. That's the other one. On November 16th from his person, his arrest in Maine, they say, for the sake of clarity, we shall treat Okun's contention as two separate claims, one dealing with the search of Okun's home in Maryland, the other dealing with his arrest in Maine. But addressing the merits of each claim, we will set forth the facts developed

at the hearings on the suppression motions, and they completely say they should have let all that shit in, and you can suck a dick again. So he has been thoroughly rebuffed by the appeals court here. Evidence suppression is so fucked up. Like, I want somebody to get a fair trial. Absolutely. And I don't want shitty evidence to be included. There's enough against this guy where we don't have to cheat. He's talking about suppressing

murder weapons. Murder weapons that were found in his possession. Pretty legitimately, yeah. It's crazy. If you're finding a leaf that happens to grow in a specific rainforest, alright, maybe suppress that one. This is pretty relevant.

This isn't fucking circumstantial. This isn't crazy. I get that he's saying it was found under whatever circumstances. And if they just thought it was him and then went over and kicked his door and searched his house, he'd be correct. But the fact that his fucking door was ajar and there was blood in his entryway. We're going to look. You're going to have to. Yeah, you're going to get a look there.

Absolutely. And there was other people also who had access to the house. So your fault, asshole here. So, yeah, he admits to his crimes later on. 2001, he does an interview with the Baltimore Jewish Times. That's the one he chooses. That's the one he chooses. And they're kind to him, actually.

They're kind to him. Well, yeah. And they talk a lot about his Judaism and a lot about life behind bars as a Jewish person and having like the support groups that help the guys out and that sort of thing. So it's kind of half about that. But I. Supportive as fuck. Very supportive.

He said he admits that he sexually assaulted and shot these three women to death. He said he was he said there was no real hints that he would do it and he didn't know. He talked about his drug and alcohol abuse, his personal problems, his depression. He said, quote, I can't point to one thing that made this happen. I just didn't want to deal with everything. There are no excuses for what I've done. I can't begin to imagine the suffering, the cost of what

I've done to these people. It's a terrible thing I did. I would fucking say so. He practices Orthodox Judaism behind there. Now he's gone Orthodox. He's not fucking around anymore. Attaching, oh, no, tefillin. Tefillin?

It's boxes containing biblical verse, but I know I'm saying that wrong. I'm sorry to the Orthodox Jewish people. I'm sure they don't care. He would attach those to his body. Wow. Some sort of Orthodox. I don't know a lot about Orthodoxodox Judaism and their whatever. But yeah, he said,

yeah, he said, there's no excuses for what I've done and I can't begin to imagine the suffering and the cost of what I've done. So yeah, I would fucking say so. He also says, now this pisses me off.

Okay. I like it when people who have done wrong, try to like steer people away from things that have happened to them. But this fucking guy, I don't want his opinion on anything. Nothing. He says, quote, also, I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned from the past. What I did to get me here. Young people today, a lot of them are on drugs, alcohol abuse.

I think a lot of people, myself included, can contribute to society and talk to young people about the dangers of drug abuse. I don't want you near my kids. Fuck no. I'm a good example of the worst thing that could happen to somebody when under the influence. So all he's doing is blaming it all on booze and blaming it all on whatever. But you have to have that in you. You've been drunk a shitload of times.

You've ever raped and killed three people. No. You know, Ted Bundy blamed everything he did on pornography. It's like, dude, how many times have I tugged to something horrific? Sorry, dude. Yeah, that's on you. And I've never dude, how many times have I tugged to something horrific? Sorry, dude. That's on you. I've never wanted to do that shit to anybody. He said he first experimented with marijuana in junior high school and said that he spent much of the period prior to the murders drinking heavily, taking cocaine, Halcyon, Xanax, and

prescription drugs from his family's pharmacy. He said, I was depressed. I don't think I really appreciated what was happening. And instead of dealing with the problems that came up, I found a way to escape. Drugs were what I was all about. So that was the main thing here. He says that this is amazing. He doesn't consider himself a violent person. No, no. He says, quote, I know how I was brought up and the values my parents instilled in me

that taking someone's life is just horrendous. I've been a quiet, soft spoken person all my life, except when you're raping and killing. Growing up, I didn't get into a lot of fights. I wasn't really confrontational. If I was in my right mind, this wouldn't have happened. I don't want it to sound like an excuse, which it is, but before this happened, I didn't ever have a desire to physically hurt someone. People tell my parents it was completely out of character, and I agree with that.

Really? You agree that you're a good guy? The fucking asshole. My parents said. My parents said I'm a good guy. So, yeah. His parents now become huge critics of the death penalty all of a sudden. Wow.

His mother becomes very, and the other family, the Garvin family, they become huge advocates for the death penalty. So, you know, those two things there. It's funny how you become something when it affects you. You know what I mean? And his mother right away points out that my other two children are good. They're in the medical profession. They're doing fine.

She says, you know, I'm a good parent. This isn't my fault, basically. He's not Jewish. Did you know he's not Jewish? This is what happens to these kids. They're Gentiles. They're brains. They're mush.

So it happens when you put a Moyle's fucking mouth on a kid's dick. That's not a Jew. Yeah, there you go. That's the thing. That's what it is. So she insists that Stephen was a good kid, never got into any serious trouble. She said, quote, he had a religious oral upbringing. That was completely not on purpose

yet fucking hilarious the most hilarious mistake ever holy shit that was amazing which i guess they're both true that was hilarious because it felt like somebody was inside me and just like clapped my lungs together. It was like, I dare you to try to breathe. Oh, my God. Oh, that's amazing, man. Breathe, I dare you. Try it.

Holy shit. In addition to his religious and oral upbringing. Wow. She said, quote, he was a wonderful little boy, a happy-go-lucky child, carefree, just perfect, very obedient. He's the sunshine of my life. He was in the Boy Scouts, a little leaguer, you know. It was just the luck of the draw. Something went wrong somewhere.

I don't know about that. His father, on the other hand, goes about it a little different. I love how the dad's always like, fucking calm down. Let's say this shit right. And he struck out every bat. What, are we going to tell him that he was in Little League? His dad's not on fucking antidepressants or some shit like the mother is. The dad says, quote, he was always a little bit more mischievous than most.

He always wanted to go a little further than he should. He could push the envelope a little. He was more aggressive, more willing to walk the thin line between right and wrong, what he should and shouldn't do. He always thought he could do a little more, stay out a little later, that sort of thing. I've got to go have a talk with my son, I think. Yeah, he's pushing. This is what's going to happen here. Mrs. Okun also said she tries to make an excuse for him this way. His mother says in his teen years, he often said to

me, you don't know what it's like to not know where you come from. He was trying to research his birth mother never successfully, and it breaks my heart because I wish I could help him. And when his wife began traveling, I just think he felt like somebody else abandoned him. She also says after this, we're not biological. She's like, I raised him right. And by the way, you know he didn't come out of my vagina, right? We're not biological. There's a difference here that I can't understand. I guess you have to be the person who's adopted.

I think about it and say to myself, who cares? I've got two people here who love me. Then she, wow, Jesus Christ, man. She says, I just think some people handle it better than others. Like the things, if I knew the answer – and then she just started crying and trailed off and that was that. Yeah. So death penalty critics say that Okun's case fits what they say is a disturbing trend in Maryland like a – wow. This is amazing.

This is what they try to pull. Quote, like a disproportionate number of death row inmates, Oken was sentenced in Baltimore County and his victims were white. And what? So is he. It's the fucking difference. That's the difference. When you're saying that about a black guy, you're saying the jury looked at a black guy and said he killed a white – that's what you're saying that about a black guy you're saying the jury looked at a black guy and said he killed a white that's what you're saying

that race is not a fucking issue here at all Jesus and he's a Jew so you know it's all racist Jesus advocates of the death penalty said that as a upper middle class white man it's kind of hard to portray him as a victim of some racial bias by the fucking

court system February 6th of And it's kind of hard to portray him as a victim of some racial bias by the fucking court system. February 2nd of – or I'm sorry, February 6th of 2002, the Maryland Court of Appeals postpones Okun's execution indefinitely as he appeals a court of appeals ruling to the Supreme Court. So now shit starts to get sloppy. 2002, he's supposed to be executed, and it gets delayed. 2003, Maryland Court of Appeals again postpones his pending execution to hear his appeal that the state's death penalty law is unconstitutional. That's what they're doing here. Yeah. Now, she says they talked to the mother again about all this, about how he's holding up.

And she says that when she talks to him every week, she visits. They talk about sports teams and world events, but she says she doesn't talk about him about the crimes that put him there. She says, why bring it up? I've never asked him for details for an explanation. What good would it do? Which I guess is true. I would be like,

why'd you fucking embarrass me so much? Wow. It never comes up. how does that never come up that's what i mean how when every time the only reason you're going to see him where he's at is because of it how does it never come up and now she said she tries to avoid talking to him about his upcoming execution because she said quote it's hard to make conversation without him getting upset or getting or me getting upset there will be plenty of time for me to be upset later. Right now, I try to keep him laughing and smiling.

Holy shit. Yeah, I mean, that's what the deterrent is supposed to be, that it's not a fucking happy time. It's not joke time anymore. That's the thing. And then in June 1st, he's moved to solitary confinement for preparation for the execution. And that's when his mom can like visit her, him every day,

30 to 45 minutes a day. She comes now, Fred Garvin, Dawn's brother. Yeah. He's got a different take on this fucking whole thing here. He says, quote, Steven Oaken thought he was above God and he destroyed the lives of so many

people, people who do that. What he did can't be helped. He raped my sister in a horrible manner and got a kick out of it, and then he shot her twice in the head and killed her. That's how my father found her. I don't even care if he's Jewish or Arabic or what. If he goes to God and God forgives him, so be it. But as long as he's dead, eventually he's going to pay for what he did.

He needs to accept his judgment and die for his crimes. He should suffer. And then he says, let Stephen Okun know I'm not going anywhere until he's dead. I won't rest. That guy's fucking pissed. And I like him because I would feel the same way if I was him. He should suffer. But I would want to be able to do it, not the fucking court because I have a weird thing about that. I think he's

kind of the same way. I think he's on board. He'd be like, let me in that fucking cell. I'll end this shit right now. So April 26th, 2004, the Supreme Court declines to hear his appeal of the Maryland Court of Appeals decision. Within April 26th, 2004, the Supreme Court declines to hear his appeal of the Maryland Court of Appeals decision. Within hours of this, a third death warrant is signed, setting his execution for the week of June 14th. June 9th, the Maryland Court of Appeals refuses to delay the execution. So that's that.

So he's got five days, a work week, to figure it out. He's got that. June 15th, a U.S. district judge issues an indefinite stay of execution. June 16th, a federal appellate court upholds the stay of execution. What the fuck? Yes. He's trying to say that it is cruel and unusual punishment because when you're stuck with the needle, it cuts deep into your flesh. And that's cruel and unusual punishment. That's what your vein is, bro.

You get to it. That's what they're trying to say there. Ridiculous. People freaked out when they posted it on the website, the court did, about the decision, because that's what they do with these appellate cases. People went nuts about it. They were super fucking pissed off. They said—

What else? I mean, what's a more humane way? What the fuck are you talking about? You go to sleep. That's, I don't understand. You want to lay on a flat piece of metal and then we drop a super heavy flat piece of metal on them? I mean, it's over.

No shit, man. Oh, Jesus Christ. So, I agree. Now, June 17th, he appeared to have at least another month when the federal appeals court upheld the stay. But then the U.S. Supreme Court steps in later that day and says, Matt, kill him. Go ahead. Fuck this guy. They had a ton of additional appeals, which meant nothing.

The U.S. Supreme Court vacates a stay of execution an hour before scheduled execution. His lawyers pursued the last remaining options to delay the death. They finally go to the governor, Governor Bob Ehrlich Jr. That's a bad sign. He issued a statement saying that his sympathies lie with the families of all those involved in this heinous crime. So that's a good thing to say, I would say. Yeah.

The families through all of this are there. Wow. They're into this. The other families here. They're excited. Betty Romano says that this is the closest we've ever come. She's to him actually dying. So she's very excited. She says to the prosecutor, quote, if this falls through, it will be a disaster. And then she has signs in her car windows urging people to quote join us at the execution for steven j oaken free admission that will be punch and pie punch and pie yeah free admission she says i'm like okay she's got a fucking sense of humor she says it's been a hellish emotional roller coaster all these delays back and forth which i would imagine it would be for everybody his parents everybody i would assume uh So, yeah, finally, they said they deny his clemency. The governor finally denies his clemency, and it's execution day, June 17, 2004. His parents said goodbye to him and went home at 3 p.m. to not see it.

This was told by Rabbi Jacob Max, who counseled him for about 90, counseled Stephen for about 90 minutes. He says, the rabbi says he was very much at peace. This was all after all this. I mean, at the beginning of the day, it didn't look like he was going to get executed. And then by the end of the day, he's walking to the chamber, which is fucking weird, I would

say here. Now, he wrote a letter before he died, addressed to the governor that denied inclemency here. He said in the letter, they said that he talked about how sorry he was. It was a letter sent to show remorse. Got it. That was it. Yeah, he said that he asked that

the family make it public, whatever. He has a lot of apologies to make here. His last meal. Yeah. I know you're interested in that. Last meal? Not very exciting, Jimmy. Chicken patty with potatoes and gravy, green beans, marble cake, milk, and fruit punch. What is a chicken patty? Is that the fucking like- Like a chicken patty.

Yeah, like breaded, like slammed down. Did he have like a sandwich? I believe so. Or just the patty. Quote, it was the standard meal that happened to come up in the meal rotation today, the prison spokesperson said. He just took the regular meal. As he goes in, he wore a gray jumpsuit in place of his orange jumpsuit that he should have.

They said he was anything but combative. He was chuckling and chatting with a Roman Catholic priest in the death chamber. Would they just give him a bunch of choices? He's like, I might be Catholic. Send that in. I don't know what I am, so just send everybody. Or did he just make a bunch of Catholic jokes to him and he's like, no, I'm Jewish, right? Yeah, hey, this is funny, right?

So rabbi, so this guy and you walk into a bar, right? So you used to walk into a bar. And then I raped the bartender. And then they go, yeah, well, just go ahead and kill this guy. Let's do this. Now, shortly before 9 p.m., because that's the scheduled execution date, they're chanting. About 60 people outside, including all the victims' relatives, chanting, turn on the juice, which I don't like that. I get it.

I get it. I get it. I get it. I don't like a mob scene. The rah-rah. I don't like it. I don't like anyone being excited about anybody dying. Either way, too, though. In a personal way. I don't like the other side coming out. No. I don't like it. I don't like anyone being excited about anybody dying. Either way, too, though.

In a personal way. I don't like the other side coming out. No, I don't like any of it. Being weird out there with candles and shit. Fuck out of here. No, I don't like any of it, if I'm being fucking honest with you. But I don't like people that are frothing at the mouth for death. There's something about that that says something about you then, I think.

You know what I mean? You can act like you're above it all you want but you're literally the same thing there's just a reason now if you're not the brother of the victim yes fuck out of here the brother of the victim i could see you wanting to kill him yourself like i said and i'm perfectly fine with that so if you're some dick that just read it in the news and you run out there talking about you don't know any of these people out of here go back to your family that's what i mean so uh you know we know, we have weird shit about the death penalty, everybody here. So it's a little, we're definitely torn.

And like this guy, I want this guy dead. I really do. Really, really fucking bad. I just don't want a bunch of normal people to chant, turn on the juice outside. I don't think that's very classy. You know, I get that he's not classy either, but we can be above that, I think. That's what we're supposed to be. We're the ones out here in society.

That's the whole point of this whole putting him in there and then killing him in there. Yeah. Because he's below us. Yes. So go the fuck back to your job. And a lot of these people who are hardcore into this are religious, too. So that's the other thing. You don't get to do that.

You don't get to have it both ways then. You don't get. So I don't know. That's so weird. So when the word spread 9-11, he began receiving the chemicals. He said – the attorney said that he talked to him beforehand. He said – Okun knew there was nothing left to talk about. The attorney said he told him – I told him he wouldn't be alone, that we'd all be there for him. He said – wow, Jesus Christ.

Then the lawyer said, quote, fuck, he was a good man. He was not a monster. He said, wow, Jesus Christ. Then the lawyer said, quote, he was a good man. He was not a monster. He was sick. He was mentally ill. You should not kill mentally ill people. He's an asshole. That's what I think he is, honestly. Yeah, so he heaves a few times after the drugs are

administered and he's fucking dead at 918. Seven minutes. Seven minutes. That's fast. That's pretty fast. That's pretty humane. They were chanting justice has been served, which is a long chant, I would say. It's not the best chant. You can pick something better than that.

The mother, Betty Romano, watched the execution. She got to see it. She said, quote, my family has been put through hell for 17 years. Stephen Okun has been brought to justice. The only problem is that Stephen Okun died in peace and my daughter didn't have the luxury to die in peace like I saw him die tonight. Totally get her feeling that way. Absolutely. The Hurt family, Patricia's daughters, Monique is a nurse midwife, and Jessica is a guidance

school guidance counselor, the one who had the two kids and twins on the way. She was just saying that they all got along so well and they missed her mom. Her daughter said we were three peas in a pod, which makes sense. This I really don't like. Outside the prison, the execution happens and

once the guy's dead, he's dead. That's enough. Okay. Instead, this crowd lingers to celebrate, which I find disturbing. Like pouring champagne and shit? Well, even worse. They have screwdrivers? Yeah, as a tribute. The hearse pulls away with his remains at 1025, and the crowd chants,

na-na-na-na, hey, hey, hey, goodbye. Like a fucking Super Bowl. Like it's a relief pitcher being pulled in this fucking sixth inning. What the fuck are they doing? I swear to Christ, if I was a fucking cop, I would have went into that crowd and started billy clubbing people. Just spinning a helicopter until I fucking hit people. How did they? I will take all you motherfuckers in there.

Unbelievable. Like, I'm sorry. Like I said, I get it. The victim's families. I understand how you feel. That's not the way to do it. No. That's fucking, that, he's dead victim's families. I understand how you feel. That's not the way to do it. That's fucking that.

He's dead already. You're not doing anything. All you're doing is getting some weird fucking rush out of someone's death, which is fucking weird and disturbing. At that point, you're ISIS putting videos online. Exactly. That's just gross. It's just weird to chant that. I'm sorry.

Now, I get their thoughts. Ward's sister, Lori Ward's sister, said, my sister was ripped from us and our family, and we can't get her back, but at least this evil person won't be walking among us. Fine. Say that. Chanting, like, sarcastic shit at a dead body. That's the other thing. Shitty songs anyway. And it's at a dead body.

It's not at him. I get if you were mocking him. He doesn't even know you're doing it. It's over. I get if they were walking him past them on the way in and they were making fun. That would make sense. But he's fucking dead. Now you're just being morbid, I feel

like at this point. But even still, even chanting at him, even if you were chanting it from that quiet room where he can't even see or hear it, but even if you're doing it there, you're just being a dick. It's just you're not much better than him. You didn't rape anybody. But you're not as great as well you're better than him you didn't rape anybody you're murdered but i mean you're not as great as you think you are i feel like yeah you're not as high up above him as you think you

are that's what i'm saying and the whole point of the system put in place now is to is to serve a purpose and the purpose is not to rub it in somebody's fucking face that's not what we're going for the whole point is to just do it especially whose face a dead guy is. Especially whose face? A dead guy? Is that whose face you're rubbing? His parents who are standing out there? Because his parents are out there, too. I mean, his parents are out there. They're nice people. That's horrible.

They didn't fucking raise this guy to be a killer. They're just a couple of nice people. It's like when it's shoving Mussolini's own dick in his mouth, and he doesn't even know you're doing it. Stop it. That's the thing. It was Mussolini, right? Or Stalin? That was actually Gaddafi that had the dick in the mouth.

Gaddafi too, but somebody else – Not Stalin. Stalin died. No? Stalin died. No, Stalin was – he was in power when he died. They didn't remove Stalin from power. Stalin died because he was sick.

Who was the one in the streets? Mussolini. They were up through the streets. Yeah, yeah. All right. So Fred Romano, who is Don's father, was there. He said, quote, I'm feeling great right now. I feel justice.

I feel finally justice has been done. And I just want to say this. I cradled my dead daughter's body in my arms when I found her. I attempted to give her CPR. The way this guy died, he died too easy. He had no right to die in dignity. No right at all. Yeah.

If they wanted to give the guy to Fred and let Fred fucking, I've had it, Fred. I'm fine with that penalty. It would be great to beat him to death with a hot sauce bottle. That's what I mean. Whatever the fuck. I don't care. This is the 84th execution in Maryland's history, the fourth since executions resumed in 1994. And, yeah, the first since 1998.

And this was a big debate about the death penalty going on at that point. Nobody really felt that bad for this guy, though. And so, I mean, it wasn't that much of a protest. There was like 30 people down the street like, you know, like, because normally they protest like he could be innocent or whatever. This is like, we have nothing nice to say. Don't kill people. That's all we can say is don't kill people. How do we protest and not look like we're supporting rape and murder?

Exactly. That's what it is. So that's Stephen Okun. That is, Jesus Christ, poor Don Romano and Patricia Hurt and Lori Ward. We feel terrible of all those people. That is Stephen Howard Okun being a complete piece of shit. Very, very odd case. And this is a case probably where we spent the smallest

amount of time actually in the town we went to. But I kind of did that on purpose just to show that, I don't know, it's one of those things like normally there's a base of some kind. This is just passing through. And it could happen to anybody, anywhere, anytime, anybody. It's just, it's crazy shit. So I hope that all makes everybody

sleep well tonight. I know I'm going to sleep better knowing that at any time someone could want to stick a hot sauce bottle in me and shoot me in the head twice. A lot of people live in small towns because of the safety and the family atmosphere, the family feeling. Doesn't that shit

can be ruined by some asshole from Baltimore? That's what I mean. Nothing happens here. Well, nothing happens here, but what if he drives through and stops there? You can't keep the world out. Until a lunatic in a stolen Mustang comes through. You can't keep the world out. And even if it's a small town, it's not protection. Jesus, hope you like that crazy-ass wild story or hope you weren't too disgusted by it.

If so, what you can do, or if you liked it, what you can do is go over to iTunes. Give us five stars, please. It doesn't matter what you say. It's just for iTunes' funky algorithm. Just say whatever you want. It's not for our egos, we promise. If you want to be an even bigger superstar than that, though, like the list of producers that we have

coming up for you in a moment, you can do that very, very easily by going over to patreon.com slash crimeinsports and you can make a donation there or head over to over to patreon.com slash crimeinsports, and you can make a donation there, or head over to PayPal using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com. And if you want to get a hold of the show other ways, like we said earlier, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, Small Town Pod on Facebook, and Murder Small on Twitter.

Just look us up and find us. With all of that, though, without further ado, we must get to the list of the most incredible people who keep us afloat. Jimmy, hit us with the list. Executive producers this week are Christiane Castaldi, Ryan Moeller, Carrie Clark, Ara Abrahamian? Abrahamian.

Abrahamian, yes. And Yuva Taroska was in New York and her visa ran out and she had to go back to England. So, Missy Ewa, thank you so much for everything. Wendy Alcidri? Yes. Wendy Alcidri.

Lou Alcindor? Yes. That's what I keep going to, as a matter of fact. Julia Lyons, Jesse Hartman, Kayla Parker, Say Charleston Tours. I don't know what that is. Allison Perry, Ruddy Jimmy's Tours. I don't know what that is. Allison Perry, Ruddy Jimmy's Dumb. I don't know what that means. I think that's saying that you're dumb.

I don't know what the ruddy part is, though. That I don't know. I hope that's their first name and they chose to insult me. We say ruddy a lot. Do we? We insult people by saying that. Really? Yeah.

Really? Ruddy. Yeah, I think we call it a ruddy complexion a lot when someone looks like shit. Oh, well, I look like shit and I'm dumb, apparently. I I think we call it a ruddy complexion a lot when someone looks like shit. Oh, well, I look like shit and I'm dumb. I don't think you're not ruddy, though. You have no ruddiness. Dumb, that's to be debated. Okay. That's fine. Catherine Grabham. Grabham?

Grabham? Is it Grabham? Go ahead and grab him. Right. Catherine Grabham. Move them quick. Grabham. Mariela Rosas. She's wonderful. She's on Twitter and Instagram and everything. She's awesome. Thank you. Todd Crago. Taylor Ch wonderful. She's on Twitter and Instagram and everything. She's awesome. Thank you. Todd Crago. Taylor Chaney.

It's probably Chaney. Sarah Peters. Ashley Boxler. Ted Cyrus. Sticking around. Thanks, Ted. Nikki Koffel. Holly Newharty.

Newarty. Newarty. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Sure. Newartly. What the hell? Fuck.

Erica's. Shit. Cernijewski. Oh, nice one. I think so, yeah. Before you go on to, I want to insert a shout out. I got to insert a special shout out because this is a weird one, okay? This is strange. This is an odd shout out, okay?

I can't wait. We tried to rent, we're trying to rent this house, right? Yeah. We're trying to, we need a place with a studio. I need an extra bedroom we can turn into a studio because we're really building like a no shit studio. And this one's got a fucking dungeon. This one's got a dungeon.

It's amazing. So we're trying to rent this house, and it's a nice house. And, you know, the guy, he's kind of – he's like – he's just a 50-year-old businessman. And he doesn't know what the fuck he's like. How do you make money? And I'm like, oh, I got these podcasts. And he's like, what the fuck is a podcast? He had no idea what I was talking about.

I had to explain it to him for two hours. Basically, he just looked at me like, yeah, I don't know, guy. That's great. So anyway, long story short, a friend of his is picking up his kid from a play date at this man's house. And the guy says, when are you guys moving? Blah, blah, blah. Small talk. Small talk.

Have you sold the house or rented the house? He goes, ah, these couple just came to look at it tonight. And the guy said, oh, yeah, what are they, nice people, whatever? He goes, yeah, yeah, they're nice people. He said our names. He goes, they're a couple named James and Sarah. He goes, I don't know. He hosts some kind of podcast.

I don't even know what that is, some podcast thing. And he knew the name. He goes, a crime and sports and some murder one. And he said, this guy whose name is Troy, thank you so much, Troy. He said he's known this man for 15 years, this Troy man, and he's never heard him cursed before, this Troy man, ever. Never heard him cursed. And the guy said that Troy said, holy fucking shit,

James Petrogallo from Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder. Those guys are fucking hilarious. Oh, my God. Those guys are great. I love those guys. Holy shit. Can you get me an autograph? Yeah, on my fucking lease paperwork.

So this guy was like, the guy goes, he sat in that chair for an hour. You want to sit there? He was making fun of him, basically. But it was like, it's hilarious that, Jimmy, you've been recognized a couple times. I never get recognized for ever, ever. I go right under the radar. It's awesome, though, that it comes with your name. The only time it came with when it actually counted and actually got us.

I'm the guy we just signed the lease yesterday. And I swear to God, it's because of Troy. Because this guy was like, I don't know what the fuck a podcast is. But he saw that like a normal person was very excited by it. And he said, it must be something. I guess. Fine. I guess we can pay the rent.

So thank you, Troy, very much for that. I appreciate it. Wrong story short. Good looking out. Good looking out. Definitely. Come hang out and barbecue with us. Good looking out. Good looking out. Definitely. Come hang out and barbecue with us. You know where the place is.

No doubt. Jennifer Lamb, Laura Blakeslee, Daryl L., Janice Hill, Samantha Ritchie, Kelly Miller, Nicole Marino, Bryant O'Toole. He donated on Patreon and PayPal. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much, Bryant. So much. Shanna Walter, Ann Nitsch Lauren Siebold Jessica Hartke

Donald Sinclair Lindsay Rustan Jessica Morgan Yes, I think that's a Morgan. Damn it. Fucking, I'm terrible at reading and writing. I know Anthony Mason. It's tough when you've done both sides of the coin there.

It's a tough one. Helen Banton Diarrhea cha-cha-cha That's my favorite. That made Sarah so happy. I had no idea when that email came through. She showed that to me. She sent me a screenshot of it.

Brandy Finley, Paul Roost, Brittany Caitlin, Forrest Tesler, Jake Labier. Thank you so much, Jake, for sticking around. Yeah, thank you. Scarlett Agcaoli. It's probably Ag. Anthony Holloway. No, Holloway. Robert Emmett.

Madison Flatt. Courtney Kurtz. James Asselta. David Boucher, I think. Tyler Evil. No, damn it. Gwil. That's what it is.

Tyler Gwil. That's a big difference. See, Evil, the Gwil. Well, my G looks like an E. That's handwritten right there, folks. And my U looks like a V. That's handwritten goodness right there, everybody. That's what I'll say about that.

That's amazing. That's howwritten goodness right there, everybody. That's what I'll say about that. That's amazing. That's how you know it's fresh squeezed. That's how you know it's heartfelt, goddammit. Jimmy's fucking it up. Jennifer Levinson, Chuck Brookman, the awkward human. Kathleen Thill, sticking around. Thank you, Kathleen. Oh, thank you.

Kathleen, love her. She's been around forever. Fantastic. Robert Burns, Ramona Holmberg. I know a dude named Holmberg, and they're all related, so I hope they're related. Shante Wright. Ashlyn Donahoe. Melissa Reischick.

Yes, Reischick. That's probably right. Jared Hohe, I think. Shannon Stevens. Tom Milligan. Say again. Yeah, Hohe. Or Hey Ho.

No, it's Hohe. Hey Ho. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Under the Sea Fabrics, Holly Gottlieb. And Under the Sea Fabrics makes a lot of stitching shit, like cross-stitch shit. Yeah, they're cool. And so there's a lot of people that cross-stitch. Go find her.

Yeah, yeah. Holly Gottlieb, Matt Newberg, Michael Moore, Mariva Bone, Kate and Carrie, no last names on either. Kay King, Dent Arthur Dent. I didn't know you had a James Bond name. Dent. Arthur Dent. Right. David Seeley. Jose either. K. King. Dent Arthur Dent. I didn't know you had a James Bond name. Dent. Arthur Dent. Right.

David Sealy. Jose Crisp. Right. Bobby Vint. Rachel. Rachel Baque. Baque. B-A-Q-U-E with the fucking squiggle over the E.

Oh, yeah. That's like Jack A. Yeah, for sure. Morgan Garlic. Happy anniversary. Your husband is very happy to be married to you. Yeah. Good for you guys.

He really enjoys blowies. That's what I'm told. I don't know. Jacob Kaiser. That's not Jimmy's fault. He had to say it. I don't know what to do. Roscoe Van Damme, Rhiannon Pike, Laurie Snyder, Matthew Burlington, Cammy Renee, Chris Hillis,

and Timothy Smith. You guys fucking- Thank you guys. Thank you so much for everything you do. We don't have fans. We have friends, and I really appreciate you guys thank you guys. Thank you so much for everything you do. Like we don't have fans. We have friends. And I really appreciate you guys being our friends. Thank you.

We appreciate the shit out of everything that you do for us, because this is all you guys. And the show continues because of you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. God damn. We say it every week. Yeah.

It doesn't make it any less true. Yeah. That you're the you're the glue that holds this thing together. Everything from from the moral support, the words, the donations, and then all the way up into fucking circling back to help James get himself a fucking house. I'm telling you, man. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

To Troy, yes. Thank you, guys. Thank everybody. Honestly, you're the coal that keeps the engine going. You're the wind beneath our wings. Yeah. Whatever the fuck you want to put it. Fucking debt middler. Corny way. Whatever the fuck you want to put it. Fucking Debt Middler.

Corny way. Thank you guys for being there for us. We genuinely, honestly appreciate it. And what if one of these people wanted to tell you how much you're appreciated, Jimmy? How might they do so? If you want to find me, I'm at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N, sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And thank you guys so much for being around. We can't do it without you.

And I'm at JimmyPIsFunny. You can just find me there or copy and paste my last name from the show description if you want to find me on some other form of social media. Do that. Like we said, rate and review, all that good stuff. Thank you folks so much for joining us. We know it was a crazy episode and a bit of a bit of a disturbing one.

We've had kind of, I don't know, fun ones lately but they've been kind of like, hey, you know, I don't know, this girl killed her parents. That's not fun, but it's not like this. There's no hot sauce bottles involved or anything. This is disturbing. So we're going to get back with a palate cleanser that will not have sexual assault next week, but it will be brutal and vicious. Don't you worry about that.

So until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership

to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.