Small Town Murder - #88 - A Chance Encounter in Webster Township, Michigan

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

This week, in Webster Township, Michigan, a drifter is committing a series of robberies in a rural area, but when a reclusive woman disappears, it's not clear if he's actually the murderer... or if she was even murdered. Once the police get involved, it only gets worse, as this tale spins into craziness. It's a wild one!! Along the way, we find out how exciting it can be to stare at a barn, how much cocaine could possibly be on a farm, and that police dogs have a hard time finding bodies when other awful smells are around!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Webster Township, Michigan, a reclusive woman disappears, leaving neighbors scrambling for answers

and police looking for an area drifter. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy westman thank you thank you thank you for joining us on another exciting edition of Small Town Murder. Again, we have a doozy of a story this week. As usual, last week was crazy, obviously. We went to Nitro, coming from West Virginia in a town named after explosives. I am completely blown away by how many of our listeners are from that area. It's so many people on Twitter and Facebook.

Hey, I'm from here. My husband's from here. This one's... many people on twitter and facebook hey i'm from here my husband's from this one's i'm like what the hell is going on you nailed how bad it stinks by the way oh i know everybody well that was like it's called the chemical valley they're calling so i had i assume that was probably uh nicknames don't come for nothing we didn't go too hard on how bad it stinks is what i was told i heard not hard enough i was like you didn't hit that like number one you have to know is there's a stench over all of this. That just goes over all of this. But thank you, folks, for all your feedback on that.

And thank you especially to all the people out there who got on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, whatever the hell it is, and gave us. Well, they're fine. It's so confusing. And how did they do that to us? What do you call the purple icon? If you've gone on there and given us five stars, we really appreciate it. If you haven't done it yet, please get on there. Give us five stars.

It doesn't matter what you say. It's really not for our egos. It's just for business. It's iTunes and their funky algorithm. We can't control it. Harry is my shoulder. That's what it is. It's dancing around that algorithm, and it needs reviews. It helps drive us up the charts.

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But there's an easy way to do that. Rather than going to those, you just go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, and everything is there. Links to the merch. There's new shirts up, new stuff up. Wear them to a live show. Damn it, get those tickets to the live shows. You better hurry.

Right now, if you're listening to this the day it comes out, we're in Houston today, and we're in Houston today, and we're in Dallas tomorrow. And if this is later than that, then we were in Houston, and we were in Dallas, and you missed it. But I'm telling you guys, our live shows are so much fun. They really, really are. We don't mean to oversell them, but we're that confident in how much fun they are that you really, really need to come out.

If you like the show, it's so much better than just the podcast. I have to say that. The energy from the people. We have visuals of everything mixed in. Tons more jokes. It's a good time, honestly. We, as stand-ups, have opened and been a part of a lot of comedy shows. Ridiculous amounts of really great shows.

Big, giant comics who you've seen in movies and on TV and that you think are amazing. And our live shows are as good as anything that any of these people can put on, I feel like. In terms of laughter, people laugh more at our live shows than they do at any damn stand-up show I've ever seen. So please come out and see us there. The links are in shutupandgivememurder.com. You can follow them to donate if you want to do that also because, goddammit, every dime is essential. And we can't thank you enough for all of that we say it in private to each other all it's amazing yeah we do thank you that we are the because of of us being are rooted in comedy that yeah

we're very thankful for that because we are capable of doing a lot of an energetic and fun live show yeah that's all comedy yeah that i that i yeah it was good training for us yeah definitely so great but uh also guys uh this is the time then we have to do the disclaimer everybody this is a comedy podcast as we've told you once we've told you 87 times before this this is a comedy podcast uh we everything is real the stories are real the facts and the figures and the fact you know the evidence and everything like that the court stuff everything's real we don't make anything up for the purpose of jokes or things like that. But we are stand-up comics, and we do make jokes about things that deserve to be made fun of. For sure.

That's the thing. We don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families, usually. That's what we try to do because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. No, sir. That's how it works. But otherwise, anything else, if it deserves it, it's getting it, damn it. Goddamn right. Small towns, awful police forces that do terrible jobs and just shrug their shoulders and go i don't

know and walk away we're gonna pick on that if a town stinks of chemical we're gonna talk about that for a minute and it's gonna be fun so if that sounds good to you then man you're in for a good time and uh if that doesn't sound good to you if true crime and comedy never should go together in your mind, then it's fair, but have a good one. Cause we're not going to like each other. Yeah.

It's been a, it's been a bad first date. Let's end it early. Let's not order entrees. You pay yours. We'll pay for our drinks and be gone. You got that one appetizer. I had no interest in,

you can pay for that. I don't want spinach dip. That's all it is. So we'll do that and have a good one. But for the rest of you, awesome people that we're going to have a good time with. Fucking A. Shout it out from your cars, from your homes, from wherever the hell you are, on the treadmill, in your cubicle, unless you're in a conservative office

that would frown on this sort of thing. Then, like I said, go into the bathroom and quietly mumble it into your hands. But either way, top of your lungs lungs shut up and give me murder let's do it people let's go on a trip jimmy i would love that you ready to rock and roll jesus we're going on a trip we just got to houston we're getting to houston this is the thing that yeah also this show probably will be a little bit shorter than normal not too much shorter but a little bit shorter same crazy story just a little bit shorter of a story Not too much shorter, but a little bit shorter. Same crazy story, just a little bit shorter of a story because I literally have to fly out early, early in the morning and have to

get this thing edited and I don't have a lot of time. So let's do this. We're going all the way from West Virginia to Michigan. It's a quick flight. It's not a bad flight, I don't think, from West Virginia to Michigan. We're leaving the stench behind and we're going to Michigan. A different stench. Which is a different smell and watch out for the water. So this is Webster Township, Michigan here. Now,

it's weird because we're going to talk about a couple different places. The murder happens in Webster Township, Michigan, but Webster Township, Michigan is like a weird civil township that they share like statistical information with the rest of the zip code which is this other town called dexter and then there's a whitmore lake in the area too which is another town that they reference all the time because it's right nearby because these small towns all butt up against each other so we'll talk about a couple different places but webster township is where the whole thing happened and they're all right around each other anyway it's in the southeastern part of the state down here in michigan we were up in the up last time yeah for manistique which was

83 episodes ago or something yeah it's a long time ago uh but this is in the southeastern part of the state it's about 50 minutes outside of detroit which that's less than an hour but you would never know it it's farmland it's like you'd never know that you were only an hour away from detroit is that like near the lake or is that damn near canada no no it's to the west of detroit it's over to the west here about 50 minutes there about three and a half hours to chicago about three hours to cleveland it's in uh washington county uh up there i don't know uh but also oakland county people get involved uh investigators i don don't think Washtenaw County has the facilities. Gotcha.

We're dealing with some small town shit here. Some rural stuff. Wait till you hear the incompetence here. It's frightening. It's goddamn frightening. They were so dumb, they hired a town called Oakland to give them a hand. A county, Oakland County. This is like, the incompetence here is like, really?

I mean, wait, we'll get to it based on name alone you don't make that phone call no no that's yeah true no i'm not gonna call him there that's gonna be all messed up so it's a zip code 48130 area code 734 uh town motto is ah smell that detroit as you can smell it wafting over but it's uh no just kidding detroit and by the way we will be in detroit in december so buy your goddamn tickets to that shit because it's gonna sell that's gonna be it's gonna be it's gonna be a blast yeah it's a cool venue and uh we're gonna have a lot of fun there so uh come out to detroit but that's not why we're doing this we

just needed to go to michigan eventually again and here it's been a while. It's been a while, damn it. The town is honestly, they're not, it's so rural that it's like Dexter is rural also. And this place is like, it's excessively rural. Like when you look at like some of the websites that talk about it, it's like you can tell it's rural because the properties are 98% owned and only 2% rented. So that tells you it's like it's a lot of farmland. It's a lot of old farms and farms that have been in families for a long time and shit like that. Not like the movie Roots, but the Roots are set and sold and they're staying. And people with money. This is a pretty wealthy area also.

There's a lot of horse farms and shit like that out here. So this is the kind of thing we're dealing with here. The history of this town uh which is which is fucking hilarious here we'll get into this there's not laughing what am i doing there's not a lot of history here but i love hearing like pioneer history i love hearing people that went to the middle of nowhere and were surprised that shit was difficult i always i'm always gonna kick out of that where they're like this is odd it's weird that we that's not delicious we thought it would be like and it's the midwest like historically a difficult place to live it's a difficult place and up in michigan

it's cold and there's it's forest and it's yeah if you're gonna be a pioneer up there it's not an easy going here so uh yeah they said they they tried There's this one account from back then where this, you know, a writing of the 1700s when people got there. And they said it was very hard in the month of November. They had no other food but the bear's flesh that, quote, our savage killed, which is the. Native. They had an employed native guy. And they called him a savage. Yeah, to, you know, have them not get killed and have, you know, figure out how to kill the local animals and let them not die in their whiteness.

That's right. Yeah. Well, if the guy's getting the only food that you have, maybe you could call him a guy. Right. The fellow we employ. Yeah, our employee would be fine. That'd be okay. You're paying him to do a job. So an employee is fine.

A worker. I'll take worker. That's okay. It's better than savage. It's not wonderful. Maybe he didn't prepare the bear well and they were like, fuck it. Fuck it. You fucking savage.

Is that how you eat bears? That's their Yelp review of them. Fucking savages. Fucking savages eating bears. You don't saute bear. What the hell's wrong with you? My bear's a bit well done. You braise the bear. You braise's wrong with you? My bear's a bit well done. You braise the bear.

You braise it. Fucking savages. Jesus Christ. Oh, man. So this guy is upset about the taste of the savage. Or not of the savage. Jesus Christ. Christ, I hope not.

We gave up on the bears and we ate the man who worked for us. He was delicious. That's what happened. End of story. He didn't even tenderize it. It was a little tough. Then we went home because we had no one to help us. So don't eat your employees.

So he says about the bears, not the Indians, he says, quote, These beasts are very common in this place because of the great quantity of grapes they find there. But their flesh is being too fat and luscious. Our men began to be weary of it and desired to leave to go a hunting to kill some wild goats. Now, that's number one. Yeah. Too luscious.

Yeah. So it's like, I don't want this ribeye anymore. I need stinky wild goat meat. And number two, there's wild goats. I didn't didn't know i guess the mountain goats but this isn't the mountains there's woods goats that just wanted to fuck around is it maybe they didn't know that there was a farm nearby and they were just shooting some dudes bob's goats let's hunt for bob's goats i don't imagine a goat tastes much better than a bear. I don't think. I just had this discussion too with Sarah. We went out to dinner

and there was this goat cheese shit and everybody loves goat cheese and that's fine. She's like, well, that sounds good. And it was like a goat cheese. I think it was a macaroni and cheese or something. And I'm like, I'm not eating anything that comes out of a fucking goat. I'm sorry. I will not eat goat cheese. I'm just not eating. She's like, what? Have you ever

smelled a goat yeah have you ever been around a goat I love goats they're adorable do you want anything that comes out of their bodies though with that fucking their outside smells like that

I want nothing that comes out of that thing the goat cheese does taste I mean goat cheese lamb tastes the cows stink too but it's different lamb's delicious

like a lamb shoulder it seems like it has a hint of goat cheese in it it has like a little sour gamey thing to it it's good though if you make it right it's delicious i'm saying it's amazing yeah yeah yeah but i mean if you if i don't want goat milk no i guess i have a better option available you don't have goat cheese pizza no see that's what i mean great outdoors i get it no i don't want

the roman the roman goat cheese pizza. What was that? What cheese? No, you said there was a goat in there? No, a big man pizza. Big pizza. Our Great Outdoors reference of the week. What kind of pizza did you say? What pizza?

What pizza was that? Was there a goat? Is there a goat on this? Man pizza. Is there a goat in this pizza? I promise you the Great Outdoors references are not planned. Eventually they'll slow down too because we'll beat them all. They just happen. In the movies, it's a treasure trove.

So great. So they'd rather have wild goat than luscious fatty bear meat. So they're no good about that. Maybe bear's greasy. Probably. I have no fucking idea. I would assume it's November. I mean, isn't that before they go into hibernation

so i i would think that would they be all fattened up they fatten up for the winter how about you just be thankful you got some fucking food yeah really this fucking this fucking savage went out and killed him for you the least you can do is fucking eat an asshole have that it was free a bunch of dicks yeah well no they had to pay the guy to do it but still it's sort of free they didn't go out and sit down. They don't have to tip anybody. It's a decent transaction. But Dexter area, we'll talk about Dexter and Webster kind of separately, even though they're next to each other in pretty much the same area. The Dexter area was settled in 1824.

This is 13 years before Michigan even became a state. It was Samuel W. Dexter purchased a large tract of land and started the village out. It was first known as Mill Creek Settlement. And then the village was platted out in 1830. And they said, let's change it to Dexter. Or he said, let's change it to Dexter. I don't think that was a petition from the town's folks. I think he was just like, I think it should be called Dexter. And they're like, really? And he's like, like i own everything i have the most money you all work for me and they were like dexter it is that's short shorter than milk creek settlement i guess how much you like your job that's it you like your job dexter it is you want to be forced to eat savage bears you want you want this fuck hey listen and all

we got's this fatty bear shit yeah killed by a fucking savage exactly or do you want nice wild goat killed by a white man which would you rather have damn dexter it is dexter it is fucking assholes i just feel like all these people were assholes back then i don't know why every old i know they they paved the way and all that shit but i'm always like they all seem like assholes they had to be like assholes to do it i guess but but if we were alive back then we would have been assholes too we had to be because that's just the way it is yeah that's a good point that's a good point so uh in 1827 people came from

webster it started out with this one this one family here uh websters not the not the websters actually uh they came out uh 10 10 children deep this guy and his wife and a couple neighbors, and John Williams was his name, a very flashy guy, John Williams here. His neighbors, 10 children, 10 of them. They came from New York and floated over the Lake Erie there because the price of land here was $1.50 an acre from the federal government. So that's not bad. $1.50 an acre, and you could pay it off over five years so i mean you can get a shitload of land and just be like five

years you can start farming and that's you know but at some point you got to look back and go this is buck 50 can we just not talk about it call it fucking even can we call it square now like yeah i had to eat a bear last week you know how much bear i've eaten jesus and these savages aren't cheap let me tell you something the day rate is going up these guys are union now do you know that it's fucking getting tough on me you gotta lean on my 750 it's tough it's really really really tough here uh so by 1826 of course it's a you know this was that was it's funny because that that's like in webster what happened what was going on over in dexter was by 1826, which is only a couple years after the guy Dexter got there.

Two years later, there's already preachers going around conducting services in people's homes. Jesus. There's not even a goddamn building to do it in. They're just knocking on doors going, want to gather your neighbors up and talk about the Lord? Jesus fucking Christ. I moved to the middle of goddamn nowhere. Imagine that. Imagine if you moved to the middle of goddamn nowhere imagine that imagine if you moved to the middle of the few it's it's it's like a fucking two-week journey

if you get from new york you floated your 10 children you have all your possessions you get there you build a fucking house out of the forest right you just go out and you knock trees down and make fucking house out of it that all happens kick a bear out of his house to make a house for you that's what i mean you're doing all this you sit there there's nobody around what do you get a fucking preacher knocking on your door i would fucking murder him you know how far i moved for this to not happen one good thing i'm so far in the middle of nowhere and it's 17 you know 18 25 i'm gonna quiet out i'm I'm going to put a musket in your mouth and no one's going to fucking hear it.

Let's put it that way. You're going down, asshole. I'm sorry. I'm in debt to the government for 1150 just to do this shit. I'm sorry, 19th century Jehovah's Witness. You're going in the fucking ground in the backyard because I cannot take people bothering me here.

So they finally decided to build a church by 1832. People were sick and tired of people knocking on their doors. They got a bunch of logs. One guy, Daniel Webster, contributed $100 to this, which back then was a shitload of money. You could build a lot with $100.

So yeah, Samuel Dexter ended up being, he was elected a University of Michigan regent. He was chief justice of the Washtenaw County Court. All sorts of shit here. He had a home overlooking Mill Creek built and he called it Gordon Hall. I don't know why. Who cares?

Doesn't really matter. Impressive. That's all right. He can do what he wants. He can do what he wants. He was he was an abolitionist. He did not believe in slavery. And they said that it's 99% certain that his house, Gordon Hall, was a stop on the Underground Railroad.

Yeah, he had secret areas in the basement accessible through hidden doorways outside. So they didn't have written records of it, but it's designed like all the other houses were. It looks like it. So it was made for that, which is fucking cool. Good for good for him duck is quacking like crazy yeah look at that so they're not a bad guy that started not a complete asshole like some of these guys like the uh the kentucky the guy who like you know the guy who like uh thought he killed uh his his girlfriend's other boyfriend so he like hid in the woods for two years and then came back and was like oh he's still alive oh i guess never mind then like a duel or whatever named a fucking town after him like

none of this shit at least this guy was decent uh weird shit here in the dexter area in uh march 20th 1966 the dexter area experienced what they called quote one of the most infamous uh of all ufo sightings in history. This was a local truck driver, a guy named Frank Manor. You bet. Saw a glowing object near his home, obviously. I don't think he, that wouldn't usually what it is. A guy, an astronomer named J. Allen Hynek visited the town, and he said that the object was probably caused by swamp gas.

That's where it started? Which is, yeah, that's where that started. That's the whole people saying that, oh, it by swamp gas uh where it started which is yeah that's that's where that started that's the whole people saying that oh it's swamp gas reflecting off that joke from the 80s that started with this guy in black yeah that started with this guy yeah which was a recycled joke from the 80s like every other thing in men in black just fucking christ it was all that shit somebody's got such a huge house oh well, a hundred people between the movie and the song. Will Smith is like, I am raping the men in black fans for every dime they have. I will flashy thing everybody forever, forever.

I'll wear this suit and dance. That's it. Keep doing it. So this the swamp gas thing made Gerald Ford, who wasn't president yet. He was a congressman at that point. He called for a thorough investigation of the, quote, rash of reported sightings of unidentified flying objects in southern Michigan. Damn it. Invest.

It's 19 fucking 60s, late 60s. We have nothing else going on. It's not like everybody in our country is being assassinated. Everybody famous and everybody's dropping dead. And, oh, yeah, we're in a goddamn giant war. And now we're good. Yeah, everything's fine. Riots in the street.

Now let's investigate the fucking swamp gas up here. Fifteen, twenty people to designate for swamp gas. Good job. No wonder why you lost to Jimmy Carter. I mean, Jimmy Carter is a nice guy, but I mean, it's not exactly a political dynamo as far as, you know. So, I mean, to lose like a fight to Jimmy Carter, you got to fucking. He's not a genius poetic speaker either. No, well, he's very likable, Jimmy.

But I mean, he's not like a guy who's going to stick it to you. You know what I mean? Like, you could punch Jimmy Carter in the face and he'd go, no, I don't understand why you did that. It's just that he's that kind of guy. Just a dopey sweetheart. Yeah, that's a good point. So the people in this town, let's get to that. Webster Township has 6,700 people right now.

That's the kind of farm area there. And now the rest of the stats here that I'm going to give you here are combined webster dexter mixed together got it uh dexter and webster together have about 15 200 people here this is up 93 since 1990 what is going on there that's just people moving to suburbs since 1990 out of flint getting the fuck out of flint in the fuck out of detroit getting the fuck out all these cities they go to these suburbs that's yeah prices shoot through the roof. It's every suburb of every major city for everywhere, basically. It happened in New York.

I saw in the Hudson Valley, lower Hudson Valley, where I'm from, when, you know, the real estate's insane there now. It's like, there's no other reason except it's an hour away. You can commute to New York City. That's it. So that's the only thing that's drawing you there. So anyway, median age here is about 38.6 which is about a year older than our norm uh more females than males but not by a huge margin

a lot of young people and by that i don't mean like uh you know 25 uh almost double the age like the usual age groups of five ages 5 to 14 it's almost double the numbers of those age groups so they're getting the fuck out of the city to raise children that's what it is this is tons of like young families with young kids and they just they're done with the gunshots that's yeah they said let's move out there people it's a lot of professionals everybody very there's a lot of education here everybody's very educated a lot of everybody here's college educated there's colleges near here it's outside of ann arbor that's a college town too so you're going to get a lot of that here is college educated there's colleges near here it's outside of van arbor interesting that's a college town too so you're gonna get a lot of that uh the married population here usually 50 50 here it is 69 that's what it is so that tells you a lot yeah this is

this is young families this is you're not moving there to swing no to be you know hey i'm gonna go meet some chicks out and fucking webster township. 70% married chicks. Baby, 70% married. Unless that's your thing. Unless that's what you're into. Who knows? You might be into that. So single, obviously, is only about 31%. And out of the married, too, they're all new people here.

So normally, the married population, and then they have now married. There's a difference in that from married to now married. Those are people who were married and have been married to people who are currently married so it'll be like if yeah if so like it's like old money it's like old married they've been married a long time no no it's people that have been married and gotten divorced so people aren't married anymore so the married they count as the married population because they've been married but not i don't know what why they do it like that why don't you count them as divorced you fuck it's basically the same thing well they

do have divorce divorced is way less than normal here it's like half of what the national average is for divorced people uh there's less widows here there's less never married people here married with children is like almost 50 of the people where it's normally 31%. It's just this weird. You just see little those little tykes fucking cars running down streets. You're probably not even allowed to drive. It's like an old folks town with golf carts, except with those weird little like power wheels and shit rolling around. It's weird.

This town is essentially the game of life. That's exactly what it is. Single with no children children 3.8 percent wow so good fucking luck finding those people get the fuck out of town if you want if you want to catch whatever you're looking for a race of this town shockingly uh 94 percent white so uh pretty pretty white yeah this is that's who's fleeing there 0.03 percent black wow if to be that close to detroit and not have any black people that sounds on purpose like i'm just saying like obviously they're allowed in but that seems like that's that seems on purpose to me yeah a sign on the way yeah that has like

that has like like color tones yeah yeah and it's like after a certain shade it's like turn back if you're darker than q you need to go leave now it's a to z uh asian 1.3 percent so i mean not a lot here hispanic 2.62 percent that's usually 17 so i mean it's it's a very white town uh people here uh about 33 percent are religious it's normally 50 50-50 here. It's a third. Mostly Catholic, 12.7% Catholic, and then a bunch of other different Christian denominations. 0.9% Jewish. So, so close. So close.

So close to me being able to sing Hava Nagila again. 1% Jewish, we're getting Hava Nagila every goddamn time we're going to celebrate. But no, 1.3 percent islam i'm more fascinated that it's such a family-oriented town yet they're not real big on the on the religious part no they're not because they're younger yeah that's why younger people aren't as religious it's a good point so there's a there's a cutoff there of yeah like 40 and over and under 40 where going to church isn't a big priority. This is a fascinating little town. Yeah, yeah. It's an affluent little different kind of town.

1.3% Islam also because Michigan has a lot of Muslim people. Detroit, there's different pockets there that have a ton. Here, the voting is about two-thirds, 67% Democrat in the last election here, 31% Republican. So it's pretty blue. Unemployment rate is less than the national average, 3.5%. Household income is way higher than the national average, $93,977. So about $94,000. That's about $40,000 more than the national average.

So that's pretty good. About 40,000 more than the national average. So that's pretty good. 22% of people make $100,000 to $150,000. And 13.5% make over $200,000. This is very rich people. Which is way more than the average. They're real educated people here that have a lot of white-collar jobs, too. Lots of managers.

Yes. When you look at the jobs, there's less construction. There is more manufacturing jobs than normal here, though. 13% manufacturing jobs. But less retail trade, stuff like that. More than twice as many professional, scientific, and technical service jobs here. More educational service jobs, more health care and social assistance jobs. So these are all educational. They need to be educated.

Education-driven. Yeah. On the town website which is very bare on the webster township one i on there it says employment so i clicked on that to see what they have and it says positions available and under that it just says quote we need your help is that free do you need volunteers for what that sounds very shady build this website that's what we need your help with this website because nothing is on here it just says we need your help i don't know what the fuck that

means that's under positions available okay and who are you talking to because that kind of advertisement is going to get some real bottom of the rung phone it's very strange it's very strange you're getting resumes with that you're getting phone phone calls. How do I even apply for the I don't know, the help job that doesn't seem to be paying anything? Median home value in Webster is $374,600, which is quite a fucking bit, I would say. That's a lot. Very, very high compared to normal here. When you look at the housing, about 50% are between $200,000 and $400,000. Half of them.

Half of them. Not a lot under the $200,000 range at all. And there's a lot in the $500,000 to $750,000. That's like 5% of them, which is normally a little lower than that. So it's pretty wealthy here. There's million-dollar homes here, isn't there? Oh, there's million-dollar homes here, yeah.

Why fuck? I found a couple of resident reviews, are hilarious oh yeah these are all three star reviews which i find out of five yeah three out of five it's like you don't we have no strong opinion so this one it says one says quote we don't have a nightlife at all because it's mainly a high school town which is a high school i've heard of college towns before but a high school town okay uh next one says quote i'm not really exposed to it, so I'm not sure. Lots of health nuts around, but I'm not involved. I don't know what that means.

Involved in what? I don't know what you're talking about. One says, quote, residents in the surrounding area are primarily young families with middle school-aged and college-to-college-aged children. The houses are large-sized homes with decent lots. Not a lot of economy options nearby, which makes sense. Yeah. And this guy's, like, angry at people for, like, this is amazing.

Quote, hear of crime and break-ins nearby, but it's infrequent and often because of carelessness of victims. Quote, leaving cars unlocked and doors unlocked. Like, these people want to have a little town and feel, leaving cars unlocked and doors unlocked. These people want to have a little town and feel safe in their home, and fuck them. How dare they not lock their property on their property? How dare they not do that? And if you want to leave your shit unlocked

and have it stolen, and we've convinced you, the only place for you to be is here. We have for you the Webster slash Dexter, michigan real estate report your average two-bedroom place here goes for 1700 a month so it's higher that's five five hundred bucks higher than the average i found a three-bedroom two-bath home 1100 square feet it's kind of small and it's kind of an older place, and it's not on a lot of property.

$219,999. Not too economical. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,170-square-foot house, which is a little bit nicer on the inside for $259,000. So it's rough. And then I found, if you said, fuck it, I don't care. I've done very well in whatever industry I'm doing. And I want to live

in a nice house here in Dexter or Webster or wherever the fuck you are. I found a six bedroom, four bath, 5,271 square foot house for $549,000.

There you go. It's actually not that bad. It's a little kind of rural and shit, but it's not bad. That's feasible. Not bad at all. You're making $150,000 a year. That's a decent place. Decent,000. There you go. It's actually not that bad. It's a little kind of rural and shit, but it's not bad. That's feasible. Not bad at all. You're making $150,000 a year.

That's a decent place. Decent, right? You'll be fine. You'll be all right. Things to do, I found here. In Webster, look at historical farmhouses. That's literally what they tell you to do. You can go look at historical farms.

Oh, wow. That's not creepy. They literally have historical barn tours. Oh, isn't that great? So historical barns. That's how people get their shit stolen. Yay. This sounds fun. There's not creepy. They literally have historical barn tours. Oh, isn't that great? So historical barns. That's how people get their shit stolen. Yay. This sounds fun.

There's a barn. The barns are usually in the back of the property. Yeah, yeah. You don't know what's happening. You've got to go walk through somebody's fucking yard. You don't know what's happening. They're encouraging you to trespass. I think it's like, probably, I would assume, like a schedule.

How much would you hate that? I wouldn't want anybody. I would, like I said, if I'm out there i am uh no no i'm turning into like a a crazy militia person with a shotgun on my board half a million dollars with a farmhouse out back yeah and some fucking dude comes by to look at your farmhouse you're like what are you doing some dude 50 fucking neighbor 50 fucking 45 year old white people with fucking taking pictures repeatedly that's what it'll be like the website said to do this james that's what it said sorry mr p sorry in uh in dexter they have dexter days which is d-a-z-e obviously uh in august they have that there's a duck race i found oh yeah a duck race uh children's

theater and somebody named colors the clown who i hope is murdered and torn limb from limb in the town square as an example to the other clown is that is that clown owned by a slave colors clown he's not the colored clown he's colors the clown so uh he's owned by jesus you know what clowns deserve it i hope not that's not a racial thing yeah clowns yeah i don't care what you do to clowns have at it do whatever you want to them they're open fucking season, bastards. Crime rate in this town, property crime is two-thirds less than the national average. It's about a third of the national average property crime.

And violent crime, which is murder, rape, robbery, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is less than half of normal. And that includes the Dexter area, because the Webster Township area pretty much has no crime wow it's pretty much crime free the shit is too far away from everybody to have any crime there's no centralized area to steal shit or kill anybody everybody's too busy raising their fucking kids no that's there's not a lot there uh so uh let's talk about some people who uh weren't too busy to have murder happen to them here this is a weird case by the way try to find different shit basically because we you know a lot of times it's uh i mean we're talking about

small town murders and most murders are like people you know so it's like a lot of times it's a relationship gone bad or some friends getting some weird beef or some uh you know some uh fair gone wrong or whatever the fuck it is a a cult power struggle like we had at a couple of them and shit like that. There's some methed out tweaker that just goes home and snaps. Yeah, or a cannibalistic neighbor. Oh, that's the best. Once in a while, somebody just has a bad day for something, like that Burlingame, Kansas guy who just snapped.

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She's married. She has two children. They live in Webster Township on a nice house in a quiet street and all that sort of thing. And September 26th, 1990, somebody breaks into their home through the kitchen window. Just a burglary. They come in, they steal a couple of things, and that's it. They leave. It's rare around these parts.

It's weird around those parts. People don't, they don't, they don't lock their windows. If you leave, if it's a nice night it's weird around those parts people don't they don't uh uh they don't lock their windows if you leave if it's a nice night they'll leave their kitchen late september that might be a nice night to leave the kitchen window open somebody climbs right in there's probably a pie cooling out there i'm sure i'm sure a pie maybe foghorn leghorns stomping around wanting some pie she cooked in the stove and now it's smoky in there yeah leave the window open while we sleep it'll suck it all out nice and it's weird the people around here a lot of them leave their

doors open they leave their doors unlocked and this is 1990 which was not a time really where a lot of places i had a shitload of locks in 1990 like in my place so this wasn't a time when the average american household left their door unlocked you know it just wasn't we had two but they were always fucking locked that's what i mean like this is not that this isn't like 1943 where it's like their door was unlocked everyone left their doors unlocked you know who cared but it wasn't like that back then so then that was september 26th now on november 5th uh somebody breaks in again. So now this is becoming a problem. At first it was like, oh, who the hell could have done that? But a month and a half goes by.

You probably forget about it. Somebody breaks in again. Now they took about $4,500 worth of jewelry, cameras, radios, and shoes. What? I don't know. They stole shoes for some reason. And a big duffel bag that they presumably carried it all out in. I imagine that.

So they're making sense. They're practical. They didn't even bring their own bag. I guess you walk into a place, you go, there's a bag in there. There's a bag somewhere. If they have all this shit, they must have a bag. Especially, too, if it's affluent people. They probably have luggage. They travel from time to time.

They travel. They got a duffel bag, something to take as carry-on or some shit here. They travel from time to time. They travel. They got a duffel bag, something to take on, carry on or some shit here. So police believed that these burglaries were connected to about 25 other burglaries in the area, in the Whitmore Lake area, Webster Township, and in Dexter.

They got a problem. So yeah, they're all kind of similar, and they all kind of started happening at the same time and nothing was happening before it. So they're kind of thinking this they're all and they all kind of started happening at the same time and nothing was happening before it so they're they're kind of thinking this was one person and they narrow it down to a guy named bernard brooks uh nickname bookie everybody calls him bookie i would have guessed bernie yeah exactly no he's burnt he's bookie brooks okay uh he's about 25 years old at this time he's kind of an area drifter he just kind of wanders from place to place he's he'll uh sleep in like barns and people's cars unlocked cars and shit like that

and just kind of you know does petty theft and he's just kind of the area dirtbag which is weird because in an area like this in 1990 when it was a lot less population remember it doubled in population between then a lot less population rural Remember, it doubled in population between then. A lot less population. Rural area. There's not like 100 homeless guys walking around. There's one guy. He's there.

You think they'd all get together and go, can we fucking do something to either get this? Does anybody can ever be hire this guy or does anybody have a place for him? Pools a train ticket and get a train or a fucking apartment or something because he can't be sleeping in everybody's barn. You think they could solve the problem as a town with only one person, but nobody seemed to give a fuck, I guess, probably. My Celica smells like a homeless. A homeless. One of the homeless. So, yeah.

So instead, this guy goes all around and does this sort of thing. And this is north of Ann Arbor, this whole area, by the way, the Webster Township. But this is a rural area. It's an odd place to go stealing. It just is. So this is between mid-September and mid-November, though. These 25 burglaries were taken here. They found a tag from this Sharon Myers duffel bag.

Found a tag from this Sharon Myers duffel bag. It was recovered with some other stolen property that Brooks had stashed in a silo inside Webster Township somewhere. He found a silo and he was like just camping out in there. He stashed his goods, his treasures, I guess. I picture him like a pirate. It's a common thing, abandoned silos. That's what I like to. There's one over in downtown Phoenix that there was a there was shit was abandoned for like 10 years.

There was a meth lab under there for two years operating. They had no fucking idea. They yelled down the mines. I don't want to even tell you what the teenagers do down there. Sorry. God damn it. It's an old mic of mine. It comes up.

It just happens. The great outdoors happens. Okay, guys? If you haven't watched it, that's your problem. It's got so many random things that happen in there that shouldn't be connected to each other that the storyline just splits together. It fits for everything. It fucking goes with every story.

It does. It really does, especially because there's like Small Town and all that sort of thing. Fish out of water. It's beautiful. Fish out of water. You know what happens here so uh they also found uh the reason they they connected it to brooks is that uh they found letters addressed to him recovered it was like his his treasures basically it was his letters and some personal property

mixed with a bunch of shit that he stole he got a po box from 20 basically he's using the silo as his like own little safety deposit box where he just keeps all his shit in there he's like i got this my license he's he's got like a you know a childhood stuffed animal he keeps there for safekeeping stay the fuck out of silos is the thing because there are some sketchy folks in those things i wouldn't go near a fucking silo if you paid me i feel like because that's you're either going to be murdered or eaten by a an animal or i don't know they don't keep animals in silos but you're going to get trapped in there if there's a door to it that's broken there could be an animal investing in there that's true idea you're gonna get trapped in there and the only way out will be to go to the top and then what do you do you got a situation

this is bad then you got a bear climbing up with like a mohawk this thing i have to i have to burrow through fucking four stories of grain to get out i'm not doing this this is not great so uh brooks has had a rough run of it lately uh apparently this is a new thing for him all the he's had run-ins with the law but minor things but these burglaries are kind of a new a new thing because this is breaking and entering is what he's doing, which B&Es are not exactly okay or considered just a phase you're going through. A few of them will get you a lot of time. Yeah, he's going through his B&E phase.

He'll be fine. You never hear anyone say that about their teenager, ever. He's going through a difficult stage. He's going through kind of a mopey stage. Experimentation stage. Experimentation's a smoking stage. Never a B&E stage. That's just like, fuck, that's not a stage.

That's a problem. So his life kind of fell apart. He was employed up until June 1990. So this is September. This shit started happening. All these burglaries in this area. He was employed locally in Whitmore Lake at a pizza place until June 1990 when he was fired as the assistant manager. He was moving up.

He was the assistant manager. That's probably just on age, though. It was probably one of those pizza places where it was like, everyone that works here is 16. You're 24, so you're the assistant manager. Enjoy. Looking back when I was 16 working at a pizza place, thinking about the managers. I thought about it the other day, thinking about the guys. I was like, when I was 16, I respected these men.

If I ran into that fucking dude, I'd be like, you do what? That guy lived in a studio apartment that smelled like his own underwear. And you were like, he's going to guide me through life. That's my man. Yeah. I respect his authority. Yeah. Not a lot of authority.

This is who we're talking about. A man who is one fucking pizza with the wrong toppings away from sleeping in a silo with a bunch of stolen property. One of my co-workers said they saw RGM outside of work in dirty clothes buying a 24-ounce beer at a gas station. That's what I mean. That's what you see. It's like without the work uniform, it's the only thing that keeps them together they just fall the fuck apart it's

the only thing that keeps them standing he had like an 88 supra and i loved the car it was a cool car not looking back it's like that's all dude could afford that's what he was a piece of shit yeah and he thought yeah a super's cool if you fix it all up and everything but i assume he didn't just had a muffler hanging off it was a beater jesus christ it's like the bottom of the rump supra that's fucking sad i think about that all the time too like if you think about any store you go to and you talk to somebody and you're like what's their life like you know because i know people talk to me they're like what's your your life must be terrible too and it is so don't worry about it all of our lives are horrible we're not sniping at anybody but we're talking about giving someone respect in a job even though outside of that job you really wouldn't give them any respect

whatsoever you'd be like fuck you you dirty his last name was giancarlo which is like a gangster ass yeah but he's probably the the worst giancarlo ever in history oh man the genetic little genetic fucking lake was all sure all drained there huh so uh anyway he's just swamp gas at that time that's it oh man that's terrible just swamp gas let's get ford investigate. So, yeah. So this Brooks has been unemployed. He couldn't find another job. And this is a rural area, too.

It's probably not the easiest place to find work if you're unskilled. If you're just looking for entry-level work, I don't know how much of it is around here. And especially, too, if you're kind of 25 and you have a spotty work history and you worked at the pizza place and got fired. And it's a small place. And maybe everybody knows the pizza place guy who told them you you know, you're a piece of shit and a bad worker. Who knows? You know, maybe he needs hugging into the pepperoni. Yeah, you know, that's what I mean.

He got him doing that. You know, he put fucking cucumbers instead of pepperoni. Something wrong that he did. I figured it was tugging into a topping. That was my first thought. It certainly is. My first thought maybe into the mozzarella because it's, you know. Don't get a white pizza. For Christ's sake. That's not first thought. It's certainly my first thought. Maybe into the mozzarella because it's, you know, don't get a white pizza.

Yeah. Oh, that's not ricotta. Everybody. That's not ricotta. No, it's not ricotta. Jesus Christ. Oh, or spinach. Fuck.

No, it's not. So we don't know what that is. So, yeah. So he's having a tough time otherwise. So we'll introduce somebody else here. A woman named Christine Kurtz. Okay, Christine Kurtz. And we'll also introduce a guy named Gregory Fournier.

Gregory A. Fournier, his name is. He is a writer, actually, nowadays. He's an author. We'll talk about him. He went out with this Christine Kurtz in the 60s back in the 60s when they were in high school or when they were in college. 30 years before this. 25 years before this. Now he's written the last few years he's written novels. He wrote

one called Terror in Ypsilanti. Zug Island, a Detroit riot novel. That actually happened. There's really no novelization needed for a Detroit riot. They had riots there. Half the fucking city was on fire.'s probably watch that on youtube now oh yeah it was a there's documentaries about it there's all sorts of documentaries i guess it's a modern day one but i mean that's good enough let's just go back to that one uh and then he also wrote one again about

a murder case uh up in ipsilanti as well from like the 30s or something. So anyway, this guy here, he talks about her going out with her back when there was a rash of co-ed killings around that time, around that area from the college. That's a fun word, co-ed. Co-ed sounds fun. Can we just call them girls? Yeah, I guess they call women college students or co-eds always. Just say women. Which is so weird.

Why is that? It's the same fucking amount of syllables. Let's just say women. It really is. Why do they say that? The fuck are we doing? Why is that instead of a woman college student? Why are we saying co-ed killer?

I just don't understand why. Yeah, that is so weird. I don't know when the hell they got that label. And no one's ever cared about it. No. Nobody's questioned it. No. But we will.

Fuck you. It's not co-ed. It doesn't seem co-ed. Also, too, you have to have a guy to have a co-ed, too. So it makes it so like. How about we just say. What if it's an all-girl college? Then what happens?

Well, what is it? Could a co-ed be a dude? Could they be? I never hear that before. It's never been resulted in a male student ever. I've never seen like a Cinemax titty movie in the 90s on a 2 o'clock in the morning that was like, you know, whatever, whatever, co-eds, and it's a bunch of dudes. That's never happened. It's always girls that have to raise money via a car wash. That's the only via a bikini car wash.

It's never dudes in thongs washing Jeeps. Thankfully, that wasn't like that. That surprised the shit out of me. I would have been super disappointed staying up till 2 a.m. for that. Let's stop with the co-eds. That's not a fucking word anymore.

No, yeah, that's a good idea. That is fucking silly. It was. Those happened 67 to 69. But you know what ford wanted to investigate fucking swamp gas not a rash of college students murdering girls in the exact same place same fucking county he's like what's happening how many dead girls i don't know that trucker said he saw a light i'm gonna let's let's round up the military maybe it was whatever the light was

maybe that's what's happened if we get to the of that, we'll get to the bottom of the co-ed killings. That's how this is going to work. Dipshit, Gerald. Jesus Christ. Fucking dipshit. So, yeah, he said that they this was 67 to 69. This was when Christine had just dropped out of Eastern Michigan University at this point. So, yeah, she's about 20 years old and 67. So you can do the math.

She's 41 in 1990. So there you go. She's 49. She's a young lady. So she's a young lady at this point. She said she just dropped out. She managed a small boutique called Stranger or I guess it's Strangers near near a place called Ned's Bookstore, which was in Ypsilanti. And what was Strangers? A boutique, a small boutique. The place where you get a handy? I think so, in 1968. It's a wall full of holes. It's a wall full of holes.

Strangers, the place for glory holes. That's a great name for a fucking blowjob show. It really would be. Strangers. Come on and jam your dick in this yeah we have lots of things to it's a small boutiques they have fancy things to jam your dick into doilies to jam your dick into like an old lamp you can jam your dick into no idea what's on the other side of that wall no clue it doesn't matter the lamp might be plugged in who cares no idea all right it's strangers it's all about it's the adventure of the unknown come on into strangers the craziest

little boutique in ypsilanti oh that's amazing that is uh wow strangers boutique yeah that sounds that sounds terrible yeah but it's the 60s it's probably just a place you can buy fucking bean bags and incense holders and shit. Who the hell knows? Hacky sacks. Yeah, hacky sacks and all sorts of shit. So your nag champa fucking hookup. So they live together there in a boarding house at that point.

He describes her as vibrant, outspoken, fiercely independent. That's how everybody describes her. They say she's outspoken.cely independent uh that's how everybody describes her they say she's she's outspoken she's very independent her sister and a bunch of other people says she has a really good sense of humor as far as she likes to she's kind of biting though she likes to make fun of cool chick yeah she's kind of fuck yeah yeah she's and she doesn't really like people that much she's got kind of a a fucking arm's length to people. She can hang with us. Mm-hmm. This feels great. Me, anyway.

You might be too social for her. I think she'd be like, all right, enough out of you. But the best part would be she'd- You're asking her 100 questions. She's like, all right, we're good now. She'd say some shit that would make me stop talking. Oh, yeah, she would. You know what I mean?

She's fucking funny, yeah. That's what I need. No, she's a nice person. Apparently, she's, like I said, she's very independent is the thing everybody says about her. She doesn't need anybody. And for the 60s, for a young said, she's very independent is the thing everybody says about her. She doesn't need anybody. And for the 60s, for a young woman, that's pretty cool. She wasn't looking for a fucking husband to take care of her or any of that horse shit.

She wanted to make her own way. And also she is kind of a rich girl as well. And we'll get to that in a second. That's why she's got a mouth on her. Because she doesn't need you. No, no. She's got fuck you money and a trust fund. And we'll talk about that. So she doesn't really give a shit what you think of her, which is kind of also a great

feeling that I wish I could have with that. Isn't it a bummer that socioeconomical class shapes how you behave? Oh, it absolutely does. Because you're beholden to somebody else, so you have to behave. But if you've got fuck you money, you can have a shit attitude and it's great. That's what I mean. If your dad gives you $75 million in 1972, you can be,

you can do anything. You really can. In my head, I was like, this describes somebody. You can treat people however you want to treat them. And that's not political, by the way. No, it's not.

You can love the policies and all that kind of thing and just you'd still go i wouldn't hang out with that guy for five fucking minutes if you tied i'd punch him in the fucking mouth if i had to hang out with that guy or grab pussies with him yeah well no maybe you i don't have no i don't have the fuck you money i can't do that you're not the pussy grabbing sort either it's not If someone said, please grab my pussy, you'd be like, really? You sure?

How do I do that? That's what you'd say. Are you sure? Like, how do you want me to grab it? Like, do you want me to like play with it or do you want me to just grab it

and hold on to it for a while? Like you, you'd have a full list of like, I don't want to do this wrong here. And then what happens after? Do I just grab it and walk away? Is that it? Or is that the end of the day?

Are we square? Or am I just holding it for a while? Do you want me to just hang on to it for a bit is that what we're getting at here i don't understand what's going on this is why i'll never be accused of rape because i have no fucking idea yeah we're way too not me way too uncomfortable for that so that's not good here so uh her animals were her big thing even back then she was into her animals and you have to she's into horses and you have to be wealthy to be into horses. I like horses, too. They're just fine.

I've never had enough money to go near fucking one of them, though. That's the only difference, because they're expensive to do anything with. Most expensive thing to do for a horse? Put it the fuck down. Oh, to put it down. It's crazy. To feed it, to fucking have it brushed and jerked off, and goddamn everything else they have to do to it, to ride it, to anything you do with a horse is expensive. So, yeah, you have to be rich to give a shit about horses.

But every animal she had, and we're talking farm animals, anything she got a hold of, she just loved her animals and took care of them. Everybody said they were just her end-all, be-all. When she was young and a teenager, her mother and father were both killed in a private plane crash. Jesus. Which is tough. Or it's a great thing. Or it's a great thing, especially if her father owned a steel company in Detroit, which he did. And apparently, and that was kind of right before the steel industry went in the shitter.

So, I mean, that's good timing for her. She got to cash out on that. And she ended up with a big trust fund and a lot of money and uh no parents to raise her it sounds like a dream like as if you're a teenager that's a dream i mean you don't want your parents to be dead but you want them to go away and leave you with millions of dollars to live your own life that sounds wonderful depends on how much you love them you know what i mean oh even if you love them you're like i'll visit them once in a while there's holidays and stuff but dicks to you at the time yeah fuck it yeah whatever so uh he uh yeah he he provided very well for them but uh she was very that's another reason for her

independence she had dead parents she had fuck you money and dead parents so a chip on her and a chip on her shoulder so you have to be independent when your parents are dead um you, money and dead parents. And a chip on her shoulder. And a chip on her shoulder. So you have to be independent when your parents are dead. And she did. You could either crumble and be weak or you can be, or not weak, but you can crumble and have it. Let it consume you. Let it consume you. That's a much better way to put it. Or it means the same thing, but you said it much more kindly.

One way or another, you've got to pick your path. You went to therapy, which is called let it consume you. And I'm like you fucking weak or what what's going on here what's your fucking problem what'd you do your parents died you feel fucking weak now get over here for your fucking pussy yeah pussy well you gotta pick your path at that point and if you've got if you've got a chip on your shoulder and you can tough it out and just just roll with the punches. It's like any tragedy.

You can really turn into an amazing person, though. That can make or break you. And that someone probably sat her down and said, look, your parents are dead. This is bad, obviously. This isn't going to be good for you. It's going to be tough. But you're rich. Good news.

Good news is you're both rich and white. So you can pretty much discount all the other things uh you can even discount woman because you're rich so it doesn't fucking matter you know you're just rich yeah so any other thing in there you really have no disadvantages variables all keep coming back to rich to rich parents or not yeah you could be you could be a complete disaster you're still rich so you might as well try to be half decent with your life where I've got this circle and this circle but you know how they overlap

who gives a fuck because it's all encompassed in this big circle where it just says fucking rich who gives a shit who cares doesn't really matter see this do I need to print it because I will hang it on your fridge that you own, that you're not renting to own.

Nope. There's no payment. Buy shit. It's yours. It's yours. Because you're fucking rich. Because you're goddamn rich. So Christy has an older sister and brother also.

They grow up, all of them, they grow up raised by their aunt in Grosse Pointe, which Grosse Pointe is a very affluent town that's an affluent place it's known even if you're not from michigan you know gross point is a that's kind of their you know westchester or their fucking whatever not brentwood or whatever the fuck your your whatever your rich neighborhood is in your town that's what this is for them so uh yeah that's uh they grow up there outside of Detroit. And the aunt kept, they have a big trust fund, these kids. And the aunt kept the purse strings on the trust fund and kept them tight, kept them kids from pissing away the money.

And after Christy drops out of college, she's not 21 yet to take control of her own trust fund. So once she drops out of college, her aunt is very tight with the purse strings. So she's got no fucking money left at that point she has to move in with the aunt no she they lived with the aunt but at one point here the aunt stops giving her money because she dropped out of college okay her aunt was giving her money out of the trust because she was in college once she dropped out she stopped getting the money beautiful so uh christy had no money so she had to uh you know she worked little jobs and worked at the boutique worked here and there she worked at strangers she worked at strangers she was you know the other side of that glory hole that's right she's like you never know what's back here

i should have went to college you should have stuck it out i wish my dad's steel company did a little better just a little better i'm pressed up against this wall god damn it little better this wall god damn it fuck it's sticky it's so sticky so she uh but she was and everybody knew it she was working just enough she wasn't ambitious she wasn't like i'm gonna work my way up somewhere she was like yeah i'm gonna have a job and make just enough to eat until my trust fund guess what comes in somebody's gonna turn 21 one day so i'm gonna get money then so i'm really not gonna put a lot of effort in before that and honestly i don't i if i'm 20 yeah i know myself if i was 20 and i was waiting on money i would have done jack shit waiting on that fucking money i would have been like it's fine i'd have been borrowing against it probably like i'm getting money in like six months so it's

good i would have been a fucking disaster eight month plan yeah it's gonna be great great anybody can survive eight months on something i mean even if you're gonna even I would have been a fucking disaster at 20. You've got an eight-month plan. Yeah, it's going to be great. I think anybody can survive eight months on something. I mean, even if your plan is to die after eight months, eight months is a pretty good stretch. So you could make it through to where the end of that eight months is your goal, whether it's debt or fucking big payday. Yeah, big payday. You could get through. That's what I mean.

So menial shit here and there. So, yeah, I wouldn't have much ambition either at 20 like it's different if you were like 39 and you got it at 40 you would have been doing shit before that and you'd be like oh cool i'll add that to what i'm trying to do and plan on and i can use that to invest in this business that i want to run or whatever the gorgeous at 20 you're like awesome i'm gonna get like fucking four nintendos because it's 1990 i'm gonna get two tvs and two tvs and that way we can play them at the same time and that way we can fucking he thinks he's better at mario but i don't like playing two players so we're gonna play fucking separately and we'll race and see who the fuck beats it first because this guy's a pussy time trials because i don't want him on the same

screen that's what i would have been doing i would have been saying how much weed can i possibly buy at once how much can i safely to take in so uh to purchase wise so uh yeah they grow up there that she's having so she just works to get by anyway uh but she was much more into her animals than anything else uh she just wanted to board horses and all that sort of thing. She ends up breaking up with the Gregory guy. They break up. He wants to finish his education. I think he gets a graduate's degree of some kind. And she didn't want to do that. She wanted to go and stay where she was.

So they ended up not getting married or anything like that. But they went out for a couple of years. So by the 1980s, she's been married and divorced. Like I said, she doesn't like people. Everyone who knows her said at that point, she just decided she'd preferred to be alone. She just preferred to have her own space and not be with anybody. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, too. And especially if you're when you're 35 years old, you know what you are.

You know who you are by then. Pretty familiar with it. If you decided, I don't want a relationship, and I want to live by myself by then, you're not 25. This isn't a rash decision. You know what you're doing. So it's what she does. She ends up buying a 113-acre farm.

Holy shit. Which is a lot. That's not $1 dollar 50 an acre anymore no it's in a webster township here on trotters lane it's the fire sign farm and uh and there's no fire in the story i promise there's no irony there thankfully uh now she's she bought this she bought this farm 113 acres many animals as she could get and uh that was it she she moved there and was happy what a fucking life yeah she had the life that she wanted she really did she didn't give a shit what anybody thought about her she had over a million bucks in the bank in a paid for property

in rural michigan so i mean she was she was thrilled with her life had no fucking concerns uh she had a bunch of uh there's been varying reports but uh the one i heard from a couple different news reports who were standing in a barn uh later on she has 13 horses that's a lot that's a lot of horses 13 horses uh she has geese goats uh cats animals dogs fucking everything fucking everything you can imagine. On 113 acres. 113 acres and barns and shit. I mean, it's a big farm. My ex-wife's uncle has seven horses.

I mean, he's got a fucking farm, essentially. He's got a little ranch here in Arizona on four acres. Yeah, and that's a lot. And it's fucking crowded. That's a lot. Yeah, 113 is a lot of acreage. Oh, Jesus. I can't imagine how everything's

got its own acre oh yeah yeah everything yeah every horse has its own that's basically 10 acres a horse there you go guys go crazy share with the goats please enjoy yourselves have fun uh so uh yeah she's uh she doesn't have a job at this point she's not employed she's got her trust fund and that's all she is yeah what's she gonna do she's she dropped out of college and she's not employed. She's got her trust fund, and that's all she is. Yeah, what's she going to do? She dropped out of college, and she's told people, like, what am I going to do? Go get a job and make $25,000 a year when I have that already? That's stupid. I've been to strangers. It sucks.

Yeah, strangers blew, and I'm not going back there. So, yeah, everybody said her animals were her whole world, tons of livestock and everything like that. So, you know, she's living her damn dream. Fuck, yeah. For an independent person to live on a farm is, I guess, good. I mean, minus all the work that it takes for the upkeep of that. Yeah, see, I don't want to live on a farm. That's the problem.

That sounds awesome to me, just like going and wandering through and seeing everything every day. Yes, yes. But then you've got to feed it. Then you've got to clean up the shit. And you have to smell it shit a lot, too. That's the other problem. When you clean it, you generally breathe it.

That's horrible. It's just around. That's the other problem. When you clean it, you generally breathe it. That's horrible. It's just around. It's always going to waft. You're just going to, there's always going to be that, there's always, do you smell? Is that, is that, there's shit, right? Okay. You open the window.

I think I got it on my clothes. Yeah. Pretty sure that's on my jeans. This is terrible. Every, like candles and like fabric softwares that are country fresh and they show a window open out to the car. That smells like shit out there.

The country smells like animal shit because that's they just shit everywhere, which is fine. But I don't want that scent in a candle. And if you're not putting the shit part in the candle, you're just putting flowers and grass and shit. Call it flowers and grass. Call it flowers. Exactly.

Don't call the goddamn country meadow because a country meadow has a distinctive air of shit loft just cutting through it like a fucking saber. It happens. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a wonderful sponsor, Lisa Mattresses. Lisa.com. L-E-E-S-A.com. Let me ask you a question. And I can ask this right to you, Jimmy.

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November 24th, 1990. This is two days after Thanksgiving. It's the Saturday after Thanksgiving. So Thanksgiving week, everybody's been back to Michigan who's moved away and gone to the bar that day before. Isn't that weird? Yeah, that Saturday is a weird day.

That Wednesday before Thanksgiving is like if you go to any back east or midwest place, everybody who used to live there is now back there hanging out at bars and shit it's the weirdest thing ever and they're at the bars because their mom's fucking pissed because nobody's helping no no he's doing a goddamn thing they're just there to see their friends right drunken yeah that's it he's covered in flour and an apron and she's pissed about tough. Bye. She has no idea how hot she is. Tough shit. So this was two days after Thanksgiving, and a friend of hers sees Christy that day, and then nobody sees her the next day. And the next day after that, she just disappears from her house, which is insanely not like

Christy because she has 13 horses and all these animals to care for. And this isn't like a once a week thing. This is daily daily maintenance of these animals. So she never goes away without taking care of her animals or making arrangements for someone to take care of her animals. That's a big deal. So in so two days go by and neighbors have said no one's fed her animals in two days. Nobody's tended to them. What's going on?

Basically, that's really weird. Who wants to do this? Because I fucking don't. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not feeding a lot of fucking work. It is. And there's a next door neighbor of hers named Ricky Godfrey, who is very inserts himself all over this goddamn thing. He he seems like a whatever from from now.

He seems like a nice guy, from now he seems like a nice guy, I guess. He's helpful. He contacts the sister in Colorado, Christy's sister in Colorado. Her name's Christine, but everybody calls her Christy, so we'll just say Christy. He contacts Christy's sister in Colorado and says, hey, your sister, nobody's fed her horses in two days and she's not here. Do you know where she is or what you know, what's going on? Basically, I'm doing this for free. Yeah, well, he was just kind of like, you know, yeah, do I need to do this or like what

the fuck's going on? So the sister said, I haven't heard a word from her about it and I haven't talked to her in a couple of days. So I'm going to call the police. So she calls the Michigan State Police and files a missing person report. And and police take adult missing person reports. Very lackadaisical not very seriously because they go yeah they're allowed they're adults they're allowed they don't have to tell

you where they're going because that's were you a dick to them yeah well that's part of being an adult is you don't have to tell anyone where you're going that's why i always say with those silver alerts with the old people at what point do you lose the ability to just go somewhere and not have the entire fucking state police force looking for you for no reason, just because you're a little older and you felt like going for a ride. And you require some heart pressure medication. Yeah, that you might have with you. Right. Might be in your pocket.

Yeah, leave me alone, assholes. I got an extra one. I got a refill and didn't tell you. Shit, bitch, that's right. Someone to fucking get away from you. Wherever I'm going, there's a fucking Walgreens. I'll tell you that right now. And I will cash these in and have blood pressure medication for blood pressure medication for weeks that's what it is I said heart pressure

I said it too because I'm not much better at it I'm not a doctor no I'm not definitely we're definitely not there's one thing we're not we've said it before we're not lawyers we're not journalists we're definitely not doctors we are holy shit absolutely not doctors I'll tell you that right now as far as we are from journalists, keep walking, man. Oh, doctors way, way down the road. Oh, you got some walking. Yeah, yeah. You could be a journalist just on some skills, but this is, doctor, you actually have to

go to a lot of schools. Sometimes I string some words together that might be journalism accurate. But you've never cured a person of their diseases or anything like that or diagnosed a man. Right. It's never happened once. I've never even been close with WebMD. No. No.

It's like, oh, really? Wow. I'm way off. You have a cough? I hear that's genital warts. Yeah, that could be. Do you know that at all? That's as close as I get.

Syphilis is going around. I just heard that. So have you touched a lot of surfaces around the office? No. There's a new flesh-eating bacteria that's an std too so pretty good you might want to check it out you might want to go to the doctor maybe yeah so uh there there's no sign of her though the police come and they visit uh they visit at that point and they visit twice and uh they search around and they look all around and they don't find her no they look around and they come it's it's crazy too because they come with uh they come with dogs they come with uh everything they search the whole property yeah uh twice so i mean they just don't find her they're like i'm fucking i don't know they shrug their shoulders and go i don't know she's gone no one to tell

you maybe she left all right we should too yeah So they leave the family going like, OK, now what? You know, so the animals again unfed until Ricky Godfrey comes over and feeds them. December 1st, 1990 is when the news of her missing kind of hits the newspapers. Now it's not just a she left for a couple of days. Maybe she went away for the weekend. Now it's like this woman is fucking missing for December 1st. Yeah. December 1st is a week. She's been hasn't been seen in a week. That's a while. So that at that point, it's like, OK, she missing for December 1st. Yeah. December 1st is a week. She's been hasn't been seen in a week.

That's a while. So that at that point, it's like, OK, she hasn't been seen in a week. She's left her animals. This shit's serious. So they're looking for her and her truck, which is an 87 Ford F-150 that's blue. So they're looking for that. They're thinking maybe she left in her truck or, you know, whatever the hell happened. Now, at the same time she goes missing that that week of Thanksgiving, the burglaries in the area stop.

They completely stop. All of a sudden, no more burglaries. There's burglaries from late September all the way through that week of November until she disappears. And then they're gone. They just stop. She was doing it. She's the bad guy. Damn it.

I knew it. She got a bunch of jewels in a duffel bag and she's out of town. That's what she's doing. She's taking off with like jewels flying out the window. She's like, fuck those jewels. I got more. No, the police now want to talk to Bernard Bookie Brooks now because they're like, hmm, that's suspicious.

You're here, Robin. This lady disappears. No more Robin. That's real strange. I don't know what's... And also, at that point, people don't see old Bookie around anymore either. Oh, he disappeared, too.

He disappeared, too. So they're like, okay, robbery stopped. She disappears. Anybody seen Bookie? Because we'd like to have a chat with him. No, no one's seen him. That's strange. He's usually sleeping in a barn somewhere.

He's easy to find. Remember that homeless problem we had? We don't have him anymore. He's got that homeless guy problem. And people would see him riding his bike all around no more just yeah he fucking poof gone so everybody's gone here now uh police or neighbors when they talk to and it's funny too because the the it's funny but it's it's kind of funny the the small town news here from this area which i love a local newscast and not like a big city newscast like a smaller like a smaller market news somebody aiming to get the fuck out of this

market oh baby you just know it there's just somebody's like just any tampa i'll go two people sitting there going we are way too good looking to be in this town that's all it is two anchors going yeah this is the ego way too good looking you know how many pageants she won and just look at me look at my fucking hair please i don't belong here i was homecoming king this is big city hair right here you understand that captain of the football team you understand getting the fuck out of here oozing every night on channel 4, 10.30 p.m. Check out our ego.

I mean the news. After the Andy Griffith show. Ridiculous. Check out her tits and my hair. Every night at 11 p.m. And both of our smiles. Oozing through on Channel 4. We'll smile through dead children.

Let's go. The chicklets are going to be popping over here. You have no goddamn idea. Yeah, that kid's dead, but look at this smile oh it's great stuff these these fucking local newscasts were just just conjecture talking to neighbors who were just like blindly accusing people and coming up with scenarios of what happened yeah it's like a podcast. Absolutely. Like a bad podcast. And they got the same commercials, furniture and fucking meal delivery. Ours are nationals. The only difference.

Theirs are somebody's local. Theirs are like the dad in Drop Dead Gorgeous' fucking furniture store or some shit. And a sweet tomatoes ad. Yes. Everywhere's got sweet tomatoes, probably. Everywhere. Antarctica, there's a sweet tomatoes just everywhere antarctica there's a sweet tomatoes just plopped in the fucking middle of a bunch of penguins unbelievable so uh one of our

neighbors here the the the ricky guy here he comes out ricky godfrey he comes out and says on television when they interview him he goes now i just think he goes that that guy he's talking about brooks he goes this brooks now, the cops was looking for him. He goes, and he was seen around the woods over there. He goes, now, the way I look at it, he goes, the way I look at it, the way I figure it, he says, he goes, he probably made a beeline away from them through the woods to her barn and was hiding out in her barn. And then i'm afraid she came in and found him and he kidnapped her it was like wow that is oh that is quite the tale you've constructed yeah which is fine to have but you just said that on television and no charges

have been filed he just said i seen this guy around i'm pretty sure he probably kidnapped my friend and this is his name very premature at this point to say that and that's his name y'all seen him around right like he was literally like that we all seen him riding his bike and he's been over here and the cops was after him and they chased him he made a straight beeline because he had got he had gotten arrested for burglary a while back but then they released him for whatever reason the other part is like even if he says all that stuff who's the producer that goes that's the one we run that we probably shouldn't have wild accusations from people who have no evidence at all in the case like not just he can get sued but we can too it just seems really inflammatory don't you think homeless guy doesn't

have a fucking lawyer yeah but that's like that's why they change uh that's why they change where they have court like that's that's why that's why they move where they have court. That's why they move the proceedings somewhere else. He just tainted every jury pool. Well, it's every time in these small towns. That's why they always go for a change of venue because on the news before there's even an arrest, everybody in town's like, I knew he was a bad seed since he was tan. He used to come over to the house with my little boy, and he peed on my rug one time. And you're like, that's not fair. The jury shouldn't know that.

I don't think that's. I got him fingering my tabby. Yeah, I don't think that's prior bad acts that should be introduced here. It's not relevant. But that's the local. That's why they change venues all the time. But here, they fucking don't. So, yeah, they fear.

They said that this Rick C Godfrey says, well, he's just not going to give up hope. He said, he's going to try to do anything positive for her that he can to try to get her back. And he says he even plans on visiting a psychic the next day to get to ask for what they can do next to help. Godfrey said Godfrey, Rick Godfrey, Ricky Godfrey. He's really involved in this.

You know what I mean? And over these newscasts, they just keep reiterating how sweet and rural her life was. There's idyllic music playing, and there's pictures of fucking horses, and her in this beautiful, picturesque 113-acre barn

with her 13 horses. There's craft projects all around, uncompleted. We need to get her back here to complete her craft projects and pet her dog. Literally need to get her back here to complete her craft projects and pet her dog literally those are the fucking broadcasts it was cold canyon country meadow candles burning everywhere yeah yeah they do and they say some of the stupidest shit too on these you can tell these people haven't made it yet the people who write this shit like this isn't a national or like a a good like a like a large broadcast at one point during a broadcast

about her missing there's a reporter and they're standing like on the property and they cut to footage of the barn and they show the first the barn like a uh you know a wide shot of the of the of the interior of the barns you can see all the stables and then a close-up on a horse face on this horse's face and it says if only her horses could talk, we would know what happened to Christine. And I'm like, OK, I hope you never made it anywhere out of that fucking town. I really hope you didn't, because that's the worst. You wish a horse was. Haven't you seen Hot to Trot?

You don't want a horse to talk. That's your only ramification of talking horses. If her fucking horses talked wouldn't you forget about the missing woman for a minute and be like how the fuck do you talk you're a you're a horse tell me things you must know shit what's going on i can't believe you can talk nobody's gonna believe this we can't put you on the stand and you're our only witness and we're gonna take your word as what happened our horse then the next thing would be our horses were really reliable

there'll be people out there these horses are liars they've been liars the whole time i've known them finger in a tabby's finger and all the time so just so you see what he does with a calico oh my god he gets a siamese it's we got to leave the room. December 26th, 1990, day after Christmas. Fucking obviously. Day after Christmas. Now, the police had been there twice. They came with their canine search dogs. The Oakland County Sheriff's Department came in with search dogs.

And they said that the odors of a barn confuse the dogs. They said that they can't find what they're looking for in a barn because there's too many other odors. There's shit and food and animals, other animals and hay, and there's so much shit to distract the dogs that it just messes up their whole systems and they can't do it. So if you're ever smuggling bodies or drugs, have a farm around it, apparently.

That's how you do it. Every time the cop was like i think she's in its ass i think i think he's in this horse's there's a goat here i'm pretty sure it's up up the goats we're gonna have to need this dog will not stop can we get a vet out here because we're gonna have to cut this goat open i'm pretty sure there's a there's a woman in there i'm pretty positive about it because this dog is just oh yeah he's humping he's humping that means she's in there definitely she he's trying to make penile contact with our victim that's how this works he's got a solid hit on everything my goodness i was cracked the case the killer

chopped her up and jammed her up every one of these things asses fed them to her yesterday and none of them have had a movement yet. That's what happened. Wow. So, finds out they'll finally... It's so hard to take seriously. Some other detective goes, you think he jammed them up her ass? No.

He fed them. He fed them to her. What would you do, do stupid what would be easier feeding feeding it to her shoving him up you ever try to shove something up a horse's ass they gonna kick you stupid here let's try to put this up that horse's ass come on i saw the argument happen right in my head go ahead he's just put that up his ass. See what happens to you. I dare you to stick this up that horse's ass and see what happens to you. And like the supervisor's like, we're investigating a fucking murder.

No, the horses can't talk. You two are both fucking fired. I told you to get us fired, Dale. Hey, Dale, have you found out if the horses can talk yet? Because if they can talk, we're going to solve this whole case. A news lady gave me a hot tip. I heard her. So this day here, December 26th at 1015 a.m. Yeah.

What he's being called here, a good Samaritan neighbor, Rick Godfrey, the next door neighbor has been caring for the horses and dogs this whole time. He's been taken. Yeah. Otherwise known as a nosy fuck. jesus nosy fuck he's fucking conjecture of guilty parties on the news this is your ultimate like nosy neighbor this is why i don't talk to my neighbors this is why because if i go missing i don't want some guy throwing out theories on the fucking news that barely knows me she's got 113 fucking acres ricky yeah how did you notice whether or not she's home i think you get lost in that i just pictured him peeking out the blinds all i can see him they're over there binoculars whose

car is that over there everybody's fucking he's that neighbor god damn it uh so he's over there uh doing the uh but he's nice he's taking care of these horses no one's paying him and he's you know he's over there with his kids taking care of the horses. It's him and his daughter and his son are feeding the horses. And I don't know whatever the fuck they do with hay. I'm not sure what they do with hay, but they, they're, they're near the horses and I feel like they need to spread the hay out. I don't know if they eat the hay or poop on it or I don't know what they eat.

Okay. So he is removing a bale of hay to feed the horses here. And he sees a pair of leather boots sticking out from under all the pile of hay. What? And he recognizes these boots as a Christmas gift that he had given to Christy two years before. Okay. These boots. And problem is, they're not just her boots.

They move the hay, and she's underneath the bales of hay. Oh, my God. She's underneath there. hay and she's underneath the bales of hay oh my god she's underneath there she's fully clothed uh frozen because she's been outdoors in michigan december in michigan for a month and uh she's frozen under was under they showed the barn it's this sack it's a huge pyramid of hay oh boy so i mean whoever put her under there had to move all this hay and put her under there move all the hay back that's a lot and it was too much for the dogs to smell with all the different things. They never smelled her under there.

And hay's got to smell, too. Yeah, it does. Hay's, packing something in hay is probably like packing it in coffee grounds or something. It's going to throw somebody off here. But, yeah, this guy finds it. The son was there with him, too. His, like, 11-year-old son was there as well. That kid's fucked up.

Yeah, so that kid, he was a little, they talked to him on the news as well, too, of course. They stuck a mic in his face, and he was like, hey, we saw her, and she was all frozen and stuff. Oh, my God. It was hard to really, and I was like, why are you, take this kid somewhere. He just found his dead neighbor. Therapist. Yeah, something. At least in the house, not outside talking to the lady who wants horses to talk the fuck is happening why are we talking to this lady we got a better witness he's

11 he's a human child he's only 11 but he's human so we're figuring that he might be a little more believable english first language first language not not horse so uh yes we don't have to bribe him with oats. Or a nice shiny apple. Ooh. 32 days she was missing. So 32 days they presume she was frozen. He says, Godfrey here says, quote, I came across a boot and I moved the next bale and found her. As soon as I found her, I ran out of the barn crying.

It was a very bad sight. I would hope get your kid out of there first, too. Now, Kathy. kid there yeah watch her i'm going to call i gotta go cry son keep an eye on this corpse for me son this is a trying time for me do you know it's a bad sight i bought those boots the room now well i can't take them back they've had a corpse in them for two weeks son for a month four fucking weeks four weeks uh so her brother flew in and her sister flew in uh to michigan to see what the hell was going on uh they were treating the death as a homicide right away even before they did an autopsy because it's hard to kill yourself and then bury yourself under a hundred bales of hay That's a very rare suicide. It doesn't happen often.

You've got to have just enough in you to move it and then just die afterwards. I had a co-worker who lost her mind at work. My favorite thing that's ever been shouted at work, the boss was telling her to go do her job. And she goes, you want me to go do my job? How bad are you going to feel when tonight I go home and put two bullets in my head and i was like you're gonna be amazing wow to get that second shot oh wow yeah no shit she's ambitious if i'm the boss though i'm promoting her because that's a lady with ambition i went to like home and put two bullets in my head.

I was just like, she has no idea what she just said. You know what? You're reaching for the stars. You're managing this joint from now on. You're an overachiever. You're going to be my person. You keep an eye on everybody else for me. How would you feel about six people working under you? Oh, Christ.

That's amazing. Fucking incredible. So the police want to question bookie brooks uh he is still on the run though they cannot find him or just in the wind they can't find him he has been charged with burglary and receiving and concealing concealing stolen property uh in connection to a november 7th november 17th burglary that was less than a mile from Christy Kurtz's home. So that's getting closer. Like all these robberies got closer.

He's also a suspect in the other 20 burglaries that we talked about before. All of these burglaries are within two miles of Christy's farm. Jesus. So it's basically everybody that lives around there. He's burglarized. They found that they think all of's burglarized uh they they found uh that uh they think all of these burglaries there was guns food and sleeping bags and like basically like survivalist shit he took most of the time he didn't take jewelry except for a couple of them most of the time it was

guns and ammo and shit like that stuff a homeless stuff people yeah especially if you live in the rural michigan and you're going from barn to barn at night you might want to have something to protect yourself from animals or some shit. It's like arachnophobia, though. They're like getting the target right on her barn. Was he living in her fucking barn? Well, that's what he was living in all different barns. He'd been found all over the place sleeping. And like that silo seemed to be his home base where he kept his shit there.

Also, her 87 Ford pickup truck is still missing. So, yeah, he's suspected of all this. They believe that he was living in abandoned buildings in Webster and Northfield townships and was last. He was last seen Brooks by a police state police that were on patrol on November 21st. He was leaving. He was leaving Independence Lake County Park when they saw him there. He was identified there and he had been reported in staying. At first, he was staying in hotels in Whitmore Lake in Ann Arbor after he got fired. He was staying in a bunch of shitty motels, and then he obviously ran out of motel money

and took to Barnes. So, yeah, I guess, you know, I don't know how much of a nest egg you can build as assistant manager of a local pizza joint, but not much, apparently. Generally, motels don't take, I don't know, rubies as a night stay. That's usually not a handful of... I have some sleeping bags. Right. Some Army-Navy surplus shit you might want.

It's not 1812. Yeah, no, they're not going to take fucking barter. Barter for musket browns. Right. And a room. Musket pellets. I need five packs of gunpowder please so uh this uh now her house after they do an investigation here they figure that they find that her house was burglarized

at the time of her disappearance and they're looking for several items from her house uh they said that uh they said too it's funny too because they asked her sister Kathy if that knowing that there's a bunch of burglaries in the area if that would have changed her habits

at all because she always left her doors unlocked and all that kind of shit she said quote Christy did not have locks on her doors did not have locks

on her doors not did not lock her door didn't have locks quote she had the dogs and anyone she dealt with she told them to quote get off my land this time it didn with she told them to quote get off my land this time it didn't work so she was to get off my land lady that's that's lawn fuck lawn land

all of this as far as you can see it's all mine get off it out of my sight when you think you're off my land keep fucking walking keep walking yeah eventually you're gonna get off it yeah yeah you're gonna be just whenever i can't see you anymore that's you're off of it so december 28th they finally formally uh identify christine's body because before that they had not they were very uh tight-lipped about the investigation there's the neighbors were throwing out theories left and right the police wouldn't give out any information cause of death they wouldn't uh say it was definitely christine even though the next door neighbor said holy shit there's christine wearing the boots i bought her it's christine but they as far as ricky's concerned this shit's solved

yeah exactly i feel like they didn't want to spook brooks so they were trying to be a little casual about like well we don't know what happened to her and then maybe he would come sniffing around and they could scoop him up possibly rather than just that fucking Brooks got her. Let's get him. You know, maybe the lure him in with. He's not. He's off the grid. You start making wild accusations. Yeah.

He's going to disappear. Yeah. Yeah. And this guy was on the news just throwing out crazy shit. They said the body was badly decomposed and then partially frozen afterwards. So it was kind of when the temperature would rise and fall. It's a very, very shitty way to go out.

They used dental and medical records to positively identify. They ended up saying that she was shot once in the back at close range with a.38 caliber gun. So that's how she went out um yeah that's not even fast i

mean unless you hit the heart unless you got the heart or spinal cord and she's laying there yeah that's a rough way to go uh it's terrible too and there wasn't any trauma besides that there was no there was no beating or there was no anything this was possibly a surprise right so yeah ambush that's what i mean she might not ever saw it coming, which is even kind of worse, honestly, or better, depending on how you look at it. Her brother, Rick, is there in back there talking to the local news. For Christ's sake, they'll put anything on television, obviously, too. This guy has a right to say something.

He says, quote, I feel angry that someone thinks they can take someone else's life like it doesn't mean anything. Not just my sister's case here. It's happening more and more, even in small towns now. I think it's a sad state of affairs. Well, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. I love anyone saying I think it's a sad state of affairs.

That to me is the most just fucking damning thing you could say about anything. It's a sad state of affairs right there. Even in small towns now it's happening. This whole thing is bullshit. Yeah, that's the nice way of saying that. So December 31st, 1990 they find Bookie Brooks. He was on the

run. He is arrested in Mississippi in the vicinity of his parents' home in Mississippi. Running home. He went all the way home. By the way, if you're on the run, don't go to your parents house because that's the first place they look. Never go anywhere that everybody knows you know somebody. That's the bad part.

Yeah. Go somewhere where you don't know anybody and then you have to sleep in a barn. So I don't know. It's harder. Also, don't do Mexico. How about that? Yeah, that's not going to work either. You're always getting caught going to Mexico.

Try Canada. They won't let you in though probably. Canada's tough to get into. They got a fucking clerk there with a desk and running numbers and shit. Take a boat. Yeah. Go out about five miles and swim around in a circle. There you go.

That's it. You're good. You've won. You win. International waters. So also, at the time of his arrest, he had her truck. He was in possession of the Ford F-150. That's how he got so far.

So, yeah, he took her truck all the way down to Mississippi. Jesus, that's a long bike ride. And it was two days before the police even showed up. Yeah. So before they he got so far. So yeah, he took her truck all the way down to Mississippi. I was thinking, Jesus, that's a long bike ride. And it was two days before the police even showed up. So before they even looked into it. Super head start. It was three days. He had enough time to drive down there without even anybody looking for that truck. So

not a bad thing there. Also, he has a pawn slip for one of the items that have been taken from Christy's home. Okay. These are all pretty damning things here. Also, he admitted, when they talked to him, he admits that he had broken into Christie's home and had stolen her truck and some other property. He said that he did not encounter her at all, though,

while he was there, and he denied the murder. Now, all of his 25 B&Es are all unoccupied. They're all no one's home there's never been anyone home during any of his bne's so the story sounds plausible so that's what i mean that's he doesn't break into shit generally when anyone's there and he could say i've never murdered anybody but you also never stole a vehicle before that's the other thing he never took that he never there's a lot of things he hasn't done so and also there's also escalation and if who knows if she caught him and

he was already busted once before a week before that he might now not want her to get arrested again it compounds it you never know there's a lot of but it looks bad for him at this point here having her and he also has some other stolen property of hers just you know trinkets this and that he does deny the murder uh he was in uh harrison county down there now he is taken on a fugitive warrant right away before even michigan can file for uh for any kind of extradition because there's a fugitive warrant from colorado where he is on probation for a burglary conviction there some bitch is getting all over the place so yeah so right away they hold him on the fugitive warrant from colorado that holds him enough for michigan to figure out their horseshit here okay uh so the michigan the the washington

county sheriffs send their people down to mississippi to question him and uh while he's there uh oh one other thing he had i forgot to mention this is sort of important i kind of forgot on purpose uh he has truck he has her pawn slip bunch of trinkets bunch of trinkets bunch of shit and a half pound of cocaine a half pound of cocaine that's a lot of cocaine he didn't just like stop on a corner somewhere in detroit before he left and picked up a fucking an eight ball probably pretty pretty easy to get it there though i would assume probably especially in 1990 that was kind of the peak of every corner was filled i know in new york it wasn't hard to fucking get so i see it was booming i assume

detroit was the same way so uh he has a half pound of coke on him which for a guy who's kind of uh homeless yeah and doesn't and also too he's not like he's not known to have a bunch of like drug connections in that area to buy a half pound of cocaine from somebody. You have to you have to know. Yeah, I don't know where to go buy a half pound of cocaine right now. And if you just pop in and be like, hey, I heard you sell drugs. I need a half pound. They'd fucking stab you and throw you in a river.

Get the fuck out of here. That's what I mean. Like, if I really tried, I fucking hate stimulants of all kinds you guys can hear how i am you know i don't need i don't need anything else to be up at all so like if i wanted to find a little bit of coke i could probably find it a little bit we know people we know comics we could find a little bit of coke it's generally pretty pretty pretty easy to get yeah but if i needed a half pound no that would take a while black kids in nashville don't have that no and they're nutsacks no they don't so where did he get this fucking cocaine all this goddamn cocaine well he says when the police

questioned him i stole it from christy's house uh-huh that's where he says he got it christy's doing co i got it at christy's house trafficking it obviously where he also said he saw a bunch of other drug paraphernalia there but he didn't take that he just took the coke because that was you know the important thing uh yeah so uh they now they think so now the police are also like hold on a minute here that kind of makes us think that maybe he broke in when she wasn't home and looked around a lot and took her fucking and did something or either got something that was a value enough to buy this coke because at the time this is like eight grand worth of coke they were saying in that area you almost got to turn over the keys to get that kind of coke exactly and

he had the truck and so even if you steal 4500 worth of jewelry when you fence it you're going to get 800 bucks for that so that's a lot of a lot of shit to sell to get eight that much right so uh now they're very confused because they're like, what the fuck now? What are we doing? Maybe he did do that. And then maybe she owed somebody money for a half pound of fucking coke and they killed her. Or who the hell knows? Maybe somebody used this as an excuse that they wanted to kill her anyway.

That's a beautiful theory. There's all sorts of crazy theories here. And there's the O.J. Colombian drug lord theory. Who the hell knows here uh anyway the governor uh signs a warrant authorizing the extradition uh the mississippi governor does to get him the fuck out of there he's like get this murdering asshole or what we think is a murdering asshole the hell out of here yeah so there they have the murder charge in the works hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a great sponsor, Madison Reed. Madison Reed, Madison-Reed, R-E-E-D.com. You have to go there,

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Check out the biggest Survivor podcast on the web with the king of reality TV. Check out Rob Has a Podcast every week on Podcast One or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Now, the neighbors, her neighbors, are pissed off at the cops. Ricky's mad. Ricky's fucking pissed. Ricky's pissed. David Godfrey is pissed the cops. Ricky's mad. Ricky's fucking pissed. Ricky's pissed. David Godfrey is pissed, who's Ricky's brother. He's upset.

Another neighbor, he lives around there, too. They're super pissed off. David Godfrey, Rick Godfrey's brother, was pissed off that they didn't search the barn more thoroughly. They just went in with a dog and fucking walked out. He says, quote, I could have unloaded that barn in two or three hours. They could have fucking taken everything out and looked. But I'm sure they didn't think she's under all this hay. Right.

But still, you probably should take a look if the woman's missing. I mean, maybe not the first day, but after a week. You searched it twice. You did search it twice, but just not really that thorough here. Not once did you move any hay? Nobody moved hay around at all. I mean, he moved enough to feed a horse that's like three it was a month's worth okay so the kid when they interviewed him on the news he

said we had been feeding the the hay and the hay was getting low and that's why we were back to the kind of the end of the hay ready we're about to have to restock and they were thinking like what are we going to do here we're not buying hay for these fucking horses this isn't my these aren't my goddamn horses. So they criticized the police for failing to notify them of the string of burglaries to the residents weren't notified of this rash of burglaries in a month long period. Nobody know. Nobody told them. Nobody knew anything.

Nobody. Yeah. No. We've got a real big problem. No. And they say that they're saying, hey maybe if fucking christy knew that there was a shitload of burglaries maybe her sister said she wouldn't have changed anyway but maybe she would have fucking you know whatever i don't know she'd have gone to home depot yes hardware and put at least a fucking chain on the door slapped a little turnover one on the doorknob i don't know

something anything uh one guy said here quote why did it have to get to this point he was probably sleeping in her barn, and she surprised him. We've lost things from our house, but it's nothing like Christy losing her life. That was the Godfrey guy, because he, again, has to throw out some theories here. He's got stuff.

He's thought about this very thoroughly. He's sitting around just thinking. Yeah, he's thinking. Constantly. And the interview with this guy, I don't want to make fun of this guy too bad, but the interview with him, he was like leaned back on his couch with like a cat, like a dog on his lap over here and went over here. And he's just like, I'm just telling you right now.

I'm in his living room with like shitty lighting sitting there whittling. That's what it was like with like that one camera light on him, you know, that they have shitty local news. Good God. So now the people, thehington county sheriff's department they said that uh they patrol the area and they've been working on the burglaries but there's no neighborhood watch program and that the police lack the resources to notify the residents of such crimes this is what small town shit is like we don't have we don't have the resources we don't have a fucking flyer we don't have a flyer that's what i mean no they don't they can't they can't make

xeroxes no they cut them off they ran out of toner and i mean all you really need is a bulletin We don't have a fucking flyer. We don't have a flyer. That's what I mean. No, they don't. They can't. They can't make Xerox. No, they cut them off. They ran out of toner. And I mean, all you really need is a bulletin board for the town. That's all. And then. And then they'll hack. Just tell Rick.

Yeah. He'll tell everybody. He'll get on the news. He'll have a theory of who's responsible for it. He'll investigate the whole thing. Rick's looking into this shit. Come on, Rick. Rick's your town crier.

He is the town crier. So another one here said now, Brenda Asaro said she's now organizing a neighborhood watch. A little late for that, but that's fine. She said, this Asaro said that she saw a man matching Brooks' description riding a bicycle several times in mid-November. And she said, quote, if police had let us know who this guy was, we could have gotten him, gotten him. He's riding his bike. What were you going to do?

Tackle him? Just run up and tackle a dude on his bike. Hey, what if that's just a dude that likes to ride his bike? And the other thing is, even if they knew that he had been arrested for burglaries but had been released on bail, he's allowed to ride his fucking bike around. Well, you know, you can't just get him because he's been arrested for a crime get him that's not how this works i think she's missing what neighborhood watches and it's not that it's not a vigilante justice group that fucking tackles men off bicycles she's a female george zimmerman yeah yeah we could have gotten him damn

it could have gotten out there with a 45 just blasting dudes on fire indiscriminately so uh february 9th 1991 brooks is arraigned on a murder charge so now first degree murder this is too they're not fucking around with this this is a robbery there's aggravators this is not great uh february 21st 1991 they have hearings about all of this shit to see what this is, to see whether it'll go forward. You're hearing here. They had a dozen witnesses, witness testimonies, including a number of the burglary victims from around the area. There they are. A guy named William Miller, who's one of the investigators.

He's testified that a November 14th break in at his house, someone stole a 38 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver, the holster and a box of discontinued Western 38 caliber bullets that hadn't been made since 1975. Wow. A guy named Herbert Lentz, who lives near this Miller guy, said that four guns were stolen from him, including a.38 caliber Colt Special and a very distinctive pouch. These were stolen on November 17th. Sheriff's Department detectives also said that the gun found in Kurtz's truck was in Lentz's gun pouch, the very distinctive one, along with a box of bullets like the ones that were stolen from Miller, the discontinued ones from 1975. They never found Lentz's Colt revolver. That's the one piece of that puzzle that was missing. They found Miller's gun in Lentz's pouch with Miller's ammo, is how it worked here. So Michigan, other state firearms experts said that the bullet that killed Kurtz was the same type of bullet stolen from Miller, which is very important because that bullet has not been made since 1975.

So that's very distinctive. Not a lot of people walking around with 15 year old ammo out there. So, yeah, they said that the and the bullet was most likely fired from a 38 caliber Colt special based on the markings, which is pretty much the exact which is the exact gun that lynn's had stolen from him that's missing got it so yeah it's there's all these coming together there's pieces coming together here and uh they found in his possession that handgun case had distinctive black markings and and like we said the the unusual bullet also uh so they think that this in their mind that's enough to link brooks to this case and that's that uh now uh kurt's here jesus christ i feel bad for her fucking she's out there close range bullet in the goddamn back like that that's that's a tough way

to go on your own place too and then if she didn't die right away then she got left there right in the middle of nowhere knowing that no one's going to help her because the only people around are her horses. And we know how useless they are. Things like talking. Can't even talk. And giving medical attention. They're not good at giving medical attention. Mouth to mouth.

It doesn't even know to do it. Yeah, that's that's absolutely. So they found all this in her truck, which was in his possession. Fucking, you know, on another coast. So that's not terrific for him uh here now they also uh police testify that brooks confessed to three break-ins but he said he took only three guns from lintz not the amount he said uh he also admitted that he was on kurt's farm on november 24th quote watching the property he said he was scoping it out for he was he was

you know he's gonna case in it for the burglar he said but he didn't he didn't uh he didn't steal anything that day that day and he never saw christy is what he says uh now the autopsy this is what we're going to get to because this is a big thing in the pre-trial okay the autopsy on christy reveals that she has cocaine in her blood okay that's a twist to this whole thing. Now, you can say, oh, victim blame and all this, but it makes it, it's a factor in terms of... Sure, where did he get the coke? Where he got the coke in terms of what her lifestyle is and who are her people that she knows.

It opens up, she's not, it goes from a nice woman who sits on her farm and does crafts to a woman who gets cocaine, which you might have to deal with a different kind of element. So that opens you up to a bunch of other suspects, I think, is the main. But it now makes sense how she can operate that fucking place. And that's the other thing. Well, she also has over a million dollars in her trust fund that she works off of, too.

That's gaining interest in everything else. I'm just saying how she keeps that shit. She feed all these these horses jesus christ it would take a fucking eight ball a day yeah no shit uh but this now this piece of evidence is not allowed in the trial real this is excluded this and now this was part of their case the the defense says that it's very significant because it provides corroboration for the defense's defense's theory that there was cocaine in her home. And that's where he got it. And he just stole the cocaine and left. That's that.

Now, at at the hearing, the prosecutor had the motion to exclude the autopsy results and said that the evidence has no relevance other than character assassination. Is what the prosecutor says. is what the prosecutor says. He says, from that then, I'm persuaded that that would allow in a murder case any kind of character assassination of the victim on anything in their background they had ever had that might cause anybody to, under any possible stretch of imagination,

and I use imagination in a broad sense, to think any reason anybody might want to kill them. They had no illegitimate child or they had had a bad traffic accident and an argument with somebody why i think it's not only a red herring but it's a red herring that's stillborn i can't jesus i'm not persuaded it has any relevance at all jesus that's dark dead fish that's a stillborn theory you got there rick and uh he said it would appear the main character and the main purpose of this would be character assassination. That may be because she had a little cocaine in her bloodstream that she ought to be killed.

I think that could cause great mischaracter of justice for the jury. So I don't think unless, of course, something comes up in the trial, which might make it relevant on the true issues of the case. I don't think I think it would just be used against her and we ought to keep it out and the judge agreed really they said no try that does not come into the trial i mean i'm fascinated by that because i disagree this isn't uh what was she wearing yeah that's not this that's because that's what they tried to compare it to they tried to compare it to like well what short skirt what was she wearing at the biker bar like that's not what we're saying wear whatever you want this is if your lifestyle involves cocaine you might deal with people

who are criminals that's the life that's what they're talking about necessarily just cocaine it's not a little bit it's a lot of fucking coke yeah that's possible that that makes his what he said that he got it from her house at least at least something you have to look into at least something you

have to look into and have it be something that you you can use as a theory it's shitty but you kind of have to right he's a thief not a he's trying to say i'm a thief not a murderer that's what he says all the time i'm just a thief man i'm a thief i saw a bunch of cocaine i fucking took it and i took the truck and i said i'm getting the hell out of here because that's a lot of cocaine and someone's going to come looking for that much cocaine and i should be far away when they do and that's you kind of story you buy that story at the same time you go with the puzzles it's a it's it's a little confusing here now uh so they said the defense's theory at trial is that christy was killed by an unknown person who knew that the drugs were in the home uh the defense council stated, quote, having it known that one keeps large quantities of

drugs or cash in an isolated house with no locks on the door is not conducive to a long life. Who is in possession of a large weapon, too, though. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. This dude's got a weapon. Oh, you're saying her, not her. They're saying, I mean, anybody could have killed her.

She's sitting in the middle of nowhere with no locks and a shitload of money and a half pound of cocaine in her house. And anybody knows about that. They're going to go, let's go rob Christie. Not a bad argument. I mean, that's what I mean. That's a really kind of an argument. All she's got is a goddamn dog. Yeah, that's it.

I got milk bones. We'll be all right. Yeah, and if it's people she deals with that the dogs know, it's another problem. There you go. other problem so uh during the trial here the assistant prosecutor introduced evidence of uh of her wealth uh to demonstrate that she had no economic need to sell drugs uh they're trying to say she wasn't a drug dealer and i never think and this is we're not trying to disparage christy because i don't give a shit if she sat on her farm and did a little bit of coke knock your fucking self out i am not looking down on her for that at all i don't care i'm not blaming her it's not a matter

of that it's a matter of that's a possibility and i don't think she was selling drugs because i think she bought drugs like athletes buy drugs if you know any professional athletes professional athletes buy drugs in bulk because they don't want to go do a bunch of transactions and it's cheaper when they buy weed they buy a pound of weed they don't buy a shit because then they're going to go back to their house and do it they don't want to keep going out and getting weed. So that's the same thing with this. I feel like if you live in a rural farm and you're going to buy Coke, you buy a fucking pound of Coke at a time and you bring it back to your house and she knows she's going to do some Coke over some time. Shelf life's quite a while.

Shelf life's a while. She could put it in her goddamn freezer or wherever the fuck you store it. I don't know where you store Coke, but wrapped up tightly. I've never had a half pound of coke no that's a lot that's what i mean never had never had enough to have to store right anytime i'm gonna have to keep this for months that's never time i've had enough it was gone by the weekend because i sold it yeah yeah no that's that's definitely right it's fast so uh yeah so they said she doesn't have any economic need to sell uh drugs or anything like that. The defense the defense counsel proposed

that the killing may have been drug related like we say and the the assistant prosecutor said that the cocaine could have come from anywhere. They said just because he had a half pound of cocaine doesn't mean that he took it from Christie. He's a fucking breaking and entering guy could have stole it from anywhere. But the fact that

she had that you know it's a it's a connection there. Leave that little tidbit on the table though now ricky's gonna go wondering which one of his neighbors has got coke maybe that's why he was so nosy because he got his coke from her sometimes like you know i've been looking for her i don't know where the hell she is but i really like to find her if you see her could you tell her to give me a call good no it's not about anything in particular just anybody that she runs with let them let them know that i'm looking for stinky or little pete can you tell either one of them, give me a call, too. Just whatever.

Just tell them it ain't that important, but call me now. You know what I mean? I mean, it's nothing crazy, but I want to know. So they said, this is what the prosecutor said. Quote, now Mr. Brooks has her pickup truck and it has some of her possessions in it, but it also has possessions from a lot of other people. And who's to say that just because Mr. Brooks left Michigan that he didn't continue doing B&Es could have got that pound of cocaine from any multitude of B&Es that he's told

you he's done? Which, again, is also true. I can't argue with that either. That's the thing. Everybody's making sense here. So the defense counsel makes an attempt during the trial to get back on the topic of cocaine a lot. They keep trying to bring it back

up because he had it in his possession so they can bring that up and bring up the theory that they stole it from her but they just can't bring up the autopsy result that it was found in her system that's a court fucking legal jumping through hoops legal jump rope is exactly what it is uh so the defense counsel tries to ask an acquaintance acquaintance of Christy whether she used drugs or whether she had ever seen any signs that Christy had ever used drugs. And the prosecutor objected on the ground that such evidence was immaterial and irrelevant. And the objection was sustained. And later on, when Brooks takes the stand, he offers testimony about taking coke from the house and about finding the paraphernalia there so he puts that on the record in court i took it from her house there's the paraphernalia now the

prosecutor's theory is he's an admitted thief the jury heard nothing to corroborate his claim that that he took the drugs from her so it's not that important basically uh the verdict comes in we'll find out if the jury thinks it's important uh this is first degree murder so i mean it's it's pretty fucking serious thing uh verdict is guilty of first degree murder which i mean they're going on the bullet and the thing and that all makes a lot of sense and the cocaine is just a cloudy issue but it's also it's you're in possession of a gun well you're not in possession of the gun that we suspect did it the puzzle piece is yeah you're suspected of stealing the gun that we suspect did it and you're in possession of the ammo that for sure went through her.

But if you're him, you could also go, I sold that to a guy for $20. I bought, that's why I stole it, to fucking sell it. I sold it for $20, gave him a handful of ammo too.

So there you go. I'll throw in a chamber full of bullets too for fucking $20. And I don't know who the guy was. I don't know. He said he deals coke or something. Some guy, I think he said he was going to go

give a half pound of coke to somebody and he didn't have a any protection right so uh they the sentencing comes in and uh jesus you sir may fuck off uh life in prison okay for this man here parole uh parole but life in prison so that's you know 40 years or whatever but he's in his late 20s at this point it's not not great no uh now in the appeals court uh here court of appeals uh his counsel says that the killer uh may have been unhappy about this is a weird thing to suggest they suggest that maybe the reason that someone killed her was that they were pissed off about her failure to failure to safeguard the half pound of cocaine like he stole it from her and then this guy was pissed because they she owes him money for it or whatever the case may be. But she's got millions of dollars.

That's the thing. She can pay. She can pay a grand. That's the thing. She didn't wasn't hurting for cash. So they're saying also that her her body being found on her own on her own barn there. And shortly after the break-in they fell to locate her body even with the aid of a police dog they're trying to say that maybe somebody put her there

later and that had it didn't have anything to do with him because he was already gone down to mississippi so they're trying to make points and with the with the freezing and unfreezing of her and the weird thing you don't know how long she's been out there delay all kinds of shit like if you took a medical examiner and said how long was she outside they go beats the fuck out of me right meets i have no goddamn idea no clue uh a month a year a week i have no weather reports i gotta look at what animals are in the area absolutely i gotta look at insect larva and just shit and figure out how many generations of maggot have been in this person grissom would have a pain in the ass of a time figuring this shit out no that's that's true. So they said that this appeals court says that the decision whether to admit evidence,

because they're talking about his main point of appeal is that the autopsy report with cocaine in her bloodstream should have been given to. Yeah, because otherwise she just says, I took the cocaine from her house. And they go, she didn't do cocaine. And that's the end of it. That's a dumb argument. Whereas, yeah. Whereas if he says, I took it from her house. And they go, she didn't do cocaine. Right. And that's the end of it. That's a dumb argument. Whereas, yeah. Whereas if he says, I took it from her house and they go, well, she had it in her bloodstream. Then the jury might go, hmm, that's all they're looking for is a reasonable doubt.

So they said, quote, relevant evidence is admissible while irrelevant evidence is not. Even relevant evidence may be excluded where it is probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice. We agree with the trial court that the evidence was not relevant. The fact that Kurtz had cocaine or blood does not make it more probable or less probable that someone other than the defendant, who is Brooks, shot her. The trial court did not abuse its discretion in refusing to allow the evidence. So that's the first appeals court. Then it goes to the state Supreme Court. They said that they said that it was that that result would make it more probable that

Brooks was telling the truth about the drugs in the house and possibly another person committing the crime. They said, quote, The fact that Mrs. Kurtz, Mrs. Kurtz, Ms. Kurtz had cocaine in her bloodstream does not prove that she was killed by a drug dealer, nor does it prove anything else. However, it's a piece of evidence that was relevant to the defense and the defendant sought to present. So they overturn his first degree murder conviction, overturned based on that. conviction uh overturned based on that that's quote the improper exclusion of evidence supporting that important element of the defense theory they call it uh is an error that warrants reversal it's a unanimous opinion also amongst the judges not even a dissenter on there i tend to agree with them too which fucking blows it does but i tend to go yeah if you really want to do it and do it

fair you have to give them everything and get those parts get dale back out there sniffing around horses and figure it out yeah let's have yeah have have the have her friends all come up there the neighbor who's looking out the blinds all the time say well i never see a bunch of drug dealers hanging out at her house or anything do whatever you have to do but put but fucking make it fair whatever course he took out of town to mississippi follow that shit yeah for a 38 that's exactly find the murder weapon find that and then we got something then we got something so uh retrial of him uh it's basically the same evidence this time with the cocaine in the bloodstream and guess what guilty again doesn't fucking matter first degree murder i'm impressed yeah i'm yeah very impressed first degree murder

uh eventually though there is a plea because he's about to get another mandatory life sentence. There's a plea before the new sentencing. And I assume rather than have it just hit the jury verdict. And then the if you have a jury verdict in a sentence, now you're going through a whole nother round of appeals because now he can appeal that just fresh. But if he please. No more. You can put you can put waves of appeals in there you can put

anything you want in the plea deal saying this is what you have fuck you we're not talking about it anymore so that's why they do that a lot of times people are always like well they got a goddamn appeal out of him or they got a plea deal and they could have had him for this it's like yeah but this way they know they're doing this much and it's not going to get off on appeal staying yeah because they know this shit is shaky too so they're like let's make sure that this is all done uh so first degree murder again so may of 2000 he pleads again and uh this this ends up it's for you sir may fuck off again uh they end up giving him a sentence to 20 to 30 years after pleading no contents, no contest to second degree murder is what he does. They give him a second degree and give him 20 to 30 years.

But he gets credit for three thousand four hundred and fourteen days already served. Ten years. So, yeah, he gets credit for 10 years served already. Oh, my God. So and this is, you know, may have a terrible deal. Yeah. May of 2000. It gives him all that. The judge says, quote, I hope you can imagine what this family has gone through.

The sadness, the the I'm sorry, Jesus, this isn't the this isn't the judge. This is her sister. Why did I say that? I look in my notes. I wrote her sister. And I'm like, the judge says Kathy is her sister said, quote, I hope you can imagine what this family has gone through. The sadness, the anger. says Kathy his her sister said quote I hope you can imagine what this family has gone through the

sadness the anger uh we can sympathize with you as to the impact this is on your family we see the sadness in your mother's eyes she said that to Brooks okay so she's a decent person your mom's losing a child too she's a decent whenever they say that I always think that's a good person whenever they're always like fucking I don't care if the mother fucking dies from a heartache from her baby boy burning in hell. I'm always like, chill. Dive is embarrassing. Yeah. You're two seconds away from stabbing someone and being on a fucking trial, too.

Hellfire. You're way too angry. You're going to go off the deep end and kill someone and end up here, too. So calm the shit down. You know, I like the people who are like, you know, everybody here is, it's a tragedy all around. We've suffered enough. Let's just get on with this. This person's,

Brooks' mother didn't want him to be a murderer. She didn't raise him and go, there's my boy, murdering women and hiding them under hay just like I taught him. I taught him. I told him, you find a whore with coke,

you fucking kill that woman. You kill her and then the scent of the barn will throw off the dogs. That's a lesson I taught him from three years old. Look, for coke whores with barns,

that's it. She's not a whore, by the way. We're not saying that at all. And the mom didn't even say that. And the mom never said. This is all not making fun of her for it. But yeah, so she's there. And 2009, Brooks is released on parole.

What? It was 20 to 30 years. And that's 20 to 30. 2,000 credit for 10. That's 19 years credit he's got basically so after that he gets off uh he's on parole he's out there right now out there doing something out of here i mean he's not there's no update i looked for him in the prison system and couldn't find oh my god so as far as i know he's released on parole in 2009 we're going to detroit and we're going

to detroit so this guy might be very angry at us we're going to detroit and we're going to detroit so this guy might be very angry at us we're going to atlanta that's far too close that's close to mississippi so uh maybe ricky godfrey will come out and protect us at the detroit show what do you say nosy fuck come hang out i saw him poking around the back door by the stage there i think y'all might want to take a peek i don't know my theory is that he stole a car, killed the occupants first, obviously carjacked it, drove here, and he's going to assassinate the two of yous. Even though y'all ain't important enough to assassinate, he's going to kill a couple comedians. Oh, Jesus.

Ricky, you get your ass there. Bear steaks are on me. Yeah, bear steaks. Come on in. Come on over, Ricky. I will make you a fatty ass ribeye out of bear's ass. A luscious and fatty bear ribeye. I can't wait to give it to you.

Holy shit. What the fuck? James, what? No. That's Webster Township. You're leaving a boogeyman out? God damn it. That's life, guys.

We don't know what small town he's creeping around either. He might be down in Mississippi. His parents might be fucking dead by now. He's out of Caboose somewhere running around this country. Yeah, with a bindle. Yeah. Stealing shit. That's what he might be doing. But now we don't know somewhere running around this country with a bindle yeah stealing shit that's what he might be doing but now he's charcoal grill making jesus christ well now he's 53 years old so he's limping around do it no no he's 53 and he's had a rough life although he was in prison for a while he might have picked up a workout routine good point you never know but either way he's a small guy he was 5 8 175 at his peak he's

my size so yeah yeah he kicked his fucking ass yeah he's an small guy. He was 5'8", 175 at his peak. He's my size. Let's go, motherfucker. Yeah, he'd kick his fucking ass. It's a fair fight. Yeah. He's an older guy. I'll take him down. It's no problem. Curse me for a liar.

We was legal. Bring it on. We was legal. Tombstone comes up, too. Sorry. Crawfished on a bet and cursed me for a liar. We's legal. That comes up, too, guys.

Great Outdoors, Uncle Buck. I'm sorry. We're sorry. It's going to happen. And we're not sorry. We're not. We went on a 10-minute Beverly Hills cop run on grime and sports this week and i'm fucking proud of that that's my favorite part of the show kiss my black ass so moving on uh that is webster township michigan and that is uh christy kurtz and uh and uh bookie brooks bernard bookie brooks and ricky Godfrey and the whole clan over there.

Interesting goddamn story in a weird place. And that all happened an hour away from Detroit. And I'm sure nobody there knew what was going on because they had their own problems. Yeah, they had their own issues. They're like, we don't know. The Lions suck. Leave us alone. Enjoy your rich white privilege problems out there.

Eric Kramer starting a quarterback. We have enough issues right now, okay? It's a Rodney Peet, Eric Kramer carousel system with the run and shoot and Wayne Fonce doesn't know what he's doing. We need help, guys. Barry Sanders is great. He's great.

14 points a game ain't winning shit. It's just Sanders and Chris Spielman and we're a pile of shit. What do you think, Jerry Ball's going to do anything? He weighs 600 pounds. He's fun to look at, but he's not going to. Okay, that's enough. 1990 line.

What do you think? Never mind. I'm not going to start naming receivers He weighs 600 pounds. He's fun to look at, but he's not going to. Okay, that's enough. 1990 line. What do you think? Never mind. I'm not going to start naming receivers. I was going to start naming receivers. I'm not. He goes too deep. I'm going to relax. I'm going to relax. So that's that, guys. Thank you so much for checking that crazy ass story out. If you like

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Houston this month, today, Thursday, the 4th,ston the next day october 5th we're in dallas middle of the month we're in portland we're in we're in seattle the next night then on on november 1st we're in uh we're in san francisco crazy november 5th we're in phoenix and then we go on an insane march of tears uh throughout late november and early december where we go on an insane March of Tears throughout late November and early December, where we go to like 46 cities in 12 days. And it's fucking nuts. So please make those shows fun, at least. Come out.

Have a good time. We promise you that you will laugh. You will have a good time. And if you want to be one of those people we talked about that donates to us and is our wonderful, wonderful friends and our producers and the people that make this show run and keep going, you can do that. We told you how. And, Jimmy, why don't you hit me with a list of the people who have done just that? This week's executive producers are Sean Fitzgerald, Chrissy Ann Costaldi every goddamn week.

Thank you, guys. God damn it. Angie Todd, Heather Gunn, Teresa Lazari, Christine Palmer, Emmy Dumont, and Vanessa Iafolla, who happens to be a professor of some sort. Cool. And she loves your research. Wow. Holy crap.

So thank you very, very much, you guys, for being so amazing. Really, thank you. Abigail Chapman, Kelly Higby, Ashley Veo, Jesse Herrera and Jesse Hartman, Laura Sauter, Paul Ruwest, Hannah Just, Lauren Demerath, Christopher Anderlech, Mariela Rosas is back. Thank you, Mariela. Kathleen Anonymous. She gave her name, but I put Kathleen Anonymous just because I wanted to give her a little bit of credit. There's a million Kathleen Anonymous.

Yes. Well, thank you. Yeah. Matthew Dietrich, Rebecca Brahms, Jay Mullins, Teresa Schuschenflug. What? No way. I just did that. Wow.

Did you just rock that out? Anita Paolo, Stephanie Ioga. No, I go. Yes. Gary Howard, Janet. Janet Holm, Nina. Shit. I thought I was going to get it.

Nina Jorenstad, Justin Miller. Thanks, man. He comes through every week and he leaves a little, he donates and leaves the podcast that he listened to for the donation. Like seven of them a week. It's fucking amazing. That's amazing. Thank you.

It's incredible. Yeah, it's fucking, it's amazing. Andrew Weigand. Sinfully Delightful Clean Eating. Carla Broman. Simon Deek. He just goes by Deek. Ariana Folsom. Stacey Langtoe uh bryant tool kyle roberts kara lewis nicky dunn jesse ann shields tobish holy shit that's a lot

of words yeah matt baines uh tanya romisher yes uh yes dennis arius uh andy rue ricky dicky Dennis C. Arias, Andy Rue, Ricky Dickey, Nicole Cook, Amy E. Whitaker, Francis Beswick, Alana Popalowski, uh, bushels, but butch holes, but buttholes. Did you just call her butch buttholes? Is it Andrew? Is your last name buttholes? Oh, Reagan stands out. Distinctive. Reagan Shelkley, uh, Scott and Alison Patsner, uh, Bobby Burden, Brandon Coffrin, Kimberly Owen Goldstein, uh, Mary Meeks, Brett Welch, Caitlin Stupik, uh, Christine towels, Mark, Mark, Mark Schaefer.

That was the easiest name i've ever fucked up uh pamela rogers mark anderson kate ives oh boy uh you want to you want to you can't fucking iwan got that iwani itinji i don't know uh barbara figurino for figure figurito fig it's all right it's figueroa but arito you know what i's Figueroa, but Erido. You know what I mean? Figueroa-rito? No. That's not it either.

Figueroa-derido? Thank you, Barbara. Brandy Lee Beth of Varwood. Yes. Joshua Norberg. Bill McClellan. Chris Bakey or Back. Carrie, what is that?

Oh, that's Taylor. Carrie Taylor. Zachary Warburton, Force of Nature podcast. They donated. I don't know what their podcast is. Give it a shout. Brinchindo39. Cammie Rock is back.

Thank you, Cammie. Hayden Payette. Yeah, thank you. Ross McGowan. She's terrific. She was up in Sacramento, right? Yes. Yes.

Cammie Rock was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ross McGowan. Sheena Haas Tillipoff. Sheena Haas Tillipoff. there and she was up in sacramento right yes yes yeah yeah yeah ross mcgallon uh sheena has sheena has till tillipaw tillipoff sheena haas tillipoff sheena has a tillipaw tillipow maybe uh matt ward uh nathan sanders thomas smicher no smither damn it uh ryan shipman uh heather campbell and libby payette thank you guys for being so amazing to us. We can't do it without you. Thank you. Honestly, we're blown away by it.

Thank you so much. Honestly, guys, you guys make it possible. So thank you so much. And the show truly belongs to you guys. It's your show. And we hope we're doing what you enjoy. You've adopted your two Africans. We're your 35 cents a day.

We are. Or wherever. I'm an Italian and a Coloradan. I got a bloated belly. Yeah, that's true. It's descended. I look terrible. Yeah, but it's from beer, not starvation.

What if one of these people wanted to tell you where you could get some beer to keep that going? How could they do that, Jim? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And I really appreciate it. You guys truly have changed our lives, and it's really, really amazing. Real quickly, the last person I forgot to throw in there is Angela Starrett's daughter, Megan Krakora. She turns 21 this week. Awesome.

Happy birthday, Megan. Have a good time. And the Wishing Star Shelties. Oh, cool. Whatever the fuck that is. I imagine it's an adoption shelter. It's for dogs. But if they wanted to adopt you, where can they find you you well if you want to adopt me you can find me at

jimmy p is funny uh or just use my last name copy and paste it from the show description don't be a hero and try to spell it because you'll hurt yourself uh do all of that come see the live shows follow us on social media buy a couple of t-shirts i don't know give us some money all sorts of shit do lots of stuff for us lots of stuff for us. We'll see you soon. And we'll see you soon. Jesus Christ. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit,

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