SmartLess - "Ben Affleck"

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Ben Affleck comes to us from his lair to let down his hair, talk about Air, splitting incomes as a pair, how long-lasting friendships are rare, and filmmaking fare vedere. So listen to this episode… um… if you dare.Please support us by supporting our sponsors.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Well, you know I just can't get enough of that opening song. I just think it's just great. It's under our voices right now. Can you hear it right under us? Yeah, it's just kind of gets me going. Oh, I'm being real buoyed by this. Well, you always call me a robot. It's kind of like my little theme song, right? I know. Yeah, it is like a little thing for a little robot thing, but it's playing underneath us right now. It's going to kick it in a second, kick it in. Three, two, one.

Now, so we had a little record earlier today and now we're having our second record. There was a gap in between where lunch usually sits and I always whenever this happens, I'd love to know what Sean had. Oh, good. I had chicken curry with rice and cauliflower and sweet potatoes. And then I had a huge bowl of ice cream after. Wait, you had chicken curry with rice? Yeah. I did not, I did not know that Chef, we already made that. That's funny.

That's true. But you see, I didn't change. I still, I'm still in my smart list. Yeah, smart list merch. There's some good stuff in there. I was, I guess I shouldn't be surprised because we looked at it all before it went in there, but let me tell you something. I slept in this shop, shopsmartlist.com. It's the best. It's, it's, it's sleepable. Is that what it is?

Wait, is it shopsmartlist.com for real? Shopsmartlist.com. Yeah. What's it again? Sorry, Sean. What'd you say? Shopsmartlist.com. It's great.

I'm telling you, are you sleeping the sweats? You put the hat on when you roll out of bed. It's great. Who, did you design the blanket, those big heavy blankets? You did, right? You wanted the heavy blanket. I didn't design them, but I, what's that? You wanted the heavy blanket.

I wanted the heavy blanket because I have an issue with a throw blanket. A throw blanket covers one leg. Right. So I never understood the, the, the function of a throw blanket. No, I'm saying I like it because it's, it's, it's weighty. Yeah. It's weighty and it's big. It covers your whole body.

And it's, it's like, what do you call it? Warm fleece. Like fleece, I guess. Yeah. Hey, by the way, you know what I did? Oh, definitely whisper. Yeah. Okay.

That's going to be. For Scotty, I got him a surprise. For Scotty. I got John Williams, the composer. Yeah. To sign a page of the ET score for Scotty. Jesus. How'd you do that?

A friend of mine knows his friends with his daughter and then we just kind of made it happen. Are you guys good at that? Are you good? It sounds like you are, Sean, where you, you sort of like, you remember what your, your friend or partner or kid or whatever he really loves. And you work on it for a few months. Yeah. And you get the perfect gift.

Like, do you do that every year? I love doing that. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Hey, Will, you don't need to go up high like everybody in the world does it except you, Jason. I don't do it.

So that's why I'm saying. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Will is very good at throwing money at a gift. Of course, Sean. And I am very good at that. You're very good at that.

Whereas Sean, you, you'll do sort of a sentimental thing or I remember you said in July that what you wanted for Christmas was. That's right. Like I clocked, I clocked last year for, for Maple's birthday. She said, she just mentioned that she loved skateboarding. So I got her skateboard or a certificate for a skateboarding thing. Yes. And we went and spent the hell out of that.

Did you? That's how she broke all her teeth. Remember? Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Yeah. You should just get her teeth out. That's why she's got those flippers now.

And we've got this memory of her and she takes her teeth out every night. She thinks of you when she has to take him out. By the way, though, back to the ice cream thing. Yeah. I didn't tell you this. Jay, last episode we recorded, you, we talked about you having their, what is it called? The root canal. Yeah.

I had a cavity. You had one. And I just got, yeah, just last week. And I got a crown. Not possibly your first. No. Oh my God. I have so many.

But it's 52 years old. Oh, they're going to start coming fast. That is strange. Let's take a look at your diet. Yeah. But what is strange about things on your body degenerating as you get older? Well, but I floss and I brush and I do everything. So it's like, why don't teeth teeth don't play by that?

No, because they're sitting in sugar all day. Yeah. I will say this. You're having ice cream when you're having dessert for lunch. Yeah. Breakfast. You have a situation. He had dessert for breakfast the other day.

I did have a thing where one of my favorite sweeteners that I use, I don't want to say which one with my coffee because I thought, oh, I'm not having sugar for a few years. I've been using a sweetener. And I see that one of its ingredients, this study came out yesterday, a huge study saying that it causes like strokes and heart attacks. Yeah. Oh, I saw that.

Yeah. Really? I know. Yeah. I'm so fucking bummed. So you don't want to say this publicly since it's already public? Well, just because it's an, so I don't want to call out the one particular brand. Yeah.

Yeah. It's being reported on or whatever. Yeah. Oh, so the sweetening component is the problem, not the brand. Right. One of the ingredients. So then what is the ingredient? Do you remember?

I forget what it's called. Agave. No. Is it agave? No. It's in a lot of, it's in a lot of sort of stevia-centric sweeteners. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Is that what you're using? Yeah. So, so a lot, I don't know if purest, I don't know, but I know that some of them have it in anyways. Guys. I know. Kind of real uplifting, huh?

Are we ready for our guest? Oh, I guess let's get to the guest. Sure. Before I die, let's get it done. At least we'll know why. Exactly. I got to say, I get some of the best guests. This guy has had not one.

Did you write this intro? Did you write this intro? This is the intro, yeah. Did you write it? Yeah. This guy has had not one, but two songs written about him by a huge pop star. Most would agree he's Hollywood royalty, being an Academy Award-winning filmmaker, a happy-hitting movie star who's portrayed a very famous DC comic book character onscreen

multiple times. I knew it is. But most importantly, just an all-around great guy that I'm so happy to call a friend who I love a whole bunch and I know you fellas do too. Please welcome to smart list Mr. Benjamin, Gays of Affleck Bolt. Oh, no. No. There he is.

Oh, I love him. I love him. Very nice. That was... Your second, how did Sean get you and I don't? God damn it. Because I like him and he's a great guy. You are a good actor.

I always feel like I'm liked when I'm around you. Where are you? Are you in the basement? I'm in my lair. Okay. Lower lair. Because crime might need to be fought. Oh, God.

I am. Yes. Wait, what songs have been written about you? Dear Ben and Dear Ben Part Two. The songs that have been written about me have been written by the greatest performer in the history of the world, Jennifer Lopez. I don't know that they're exactly so much about me as maybe inspired by because, you know, because there's some negative things.

So they're aimed at you. I was going to say, are they flattering? She's amazing. Yes. And also, there is a third song written about me, but not by anyone gifted. Jimmy Kimmel wrote a song about me called I'm Fucking Ben Affleck. Oh, wait. Did Jennifer write the songs about you during or when you weren't dating?

Jennifer, you know what, Jason? Uh-huh. You asked me these questions. I just want to know if they're thriving over and over. And I tell you, if you want to ask Jennifer about her career, if you're interested in her work, go ahead and screw your courage to this digging play and ask her. I learned a lot about her with that great documentary. I love that.

That was really, really cool. Wasn't that amazing? Yeah, I loved it. Everybody watched that. That was very good. I thought that was incredible. Yeah. And by the way, that's the first time.

I know we're going to interview you in just a second. But Jennifer Lopez, who was on Will and Grace twice or three times or whatever. Was she on Will and Grace? That's fun. And I was one, two, no times. No. You were going to meet. This is the story of my life.

Will was, I wasn't. But she was, but that documentary blew me away because I was like, my God, what the woman has accomplished is astounding. Yeah. And she's not done yet. It takes a big man not to feel inadequate in the face of my wife's image. Many. But no, but she, but you too, you too, you've accomplished.

Oh, I don't feel bad about myself. I'm not low self-esteem. I'm not, well, I'm fishing a little bit, but nothing. No, the truth is it's amazed. Sometimes I think I like completely forget because here's this incredible actress and this incredible performer. And then we're sitting in the car, you know, and I'm humming along like I will, you know, the radio.

And then a professional singer goes ahead and sings along and you kind of feel like, well, that's embarrassing. Yeah. You know, I should just zip it. Do you know all her music? Don't lie. I do know. Can you sing all of her songs?

Not to you. No, but you know them though. I can't get a J-Lo song passed to you that you haven't heard. Waiting for the night. That's the remix. There it is. That's the remix. I like when Sean kind of sounds like Cher is doing a remix.

Waiting for the night. That was like a Cher waiting for something. I think Cross was a go. Now you're making me self-conscious like, oh gosh, if I were on like Jeopardy! Would I miss a question? But I do love her music. It's brilliant. And I know all of it.

Thank you. Jason, don't put them on the fucking spot. I don't fucking like it. What the fuck? You don't even remember your wife's birthday? Yeah. I'm pretty sure that starts with an A. It is surprising.

No, wait a second. Now, Ben. Yes, hi. Hi, Ben Affleck. Like Ben Affleck's not here. Hi, Ben. It's kind of great. We don't know each other.

Hi, thank you, somebody. Yes, hi. I don't have the pleasure of knowing you, but everybody who knows you likes you a great deal. And I feel often like Bateman. He's doing something with Bateman, which is really... Yeah, surprising. The job. Yeah, it is surprising.

It is surprising. And as you know, yes. So you, but you and Jason have known each other for a number of years? Yeah. I've known Jason a long time and had the chance to do like now four movies with a guy. I know. And by the way, the trailer for air looks incredible. It looks amazing for the new movie you guys did that you've invited Jason to be part of.

And any regrets, and you can be honest now, you can be, if you have regrets about this. I got to tell you. I mean, usually, and I hate, you know, when people come on shows and they're like, you know, you're great, but what you bring, because it's just so fucking boring to listen to. But I'm going to tear it. And let me tell you why, because it's actually true. And I've lied so many times that it's nice to get the chance. Jason is fucking amazing.

Guys, let him finish. And has the hardest part in the movie, which is the part where you're supposed, you know, the guy who's like, but if we don't make it to the train station by six, you know, the whole time, you know, it's constantly telling the audience what the stakes are. Look out. What's going to happen? Turn right. And somehow, like, made himself, you know, the most, I think, like the most compelling,

real, you're drawing. It's brilliant. I love it. A lot of it's improv and funny. And a lot of it's just humanity. But it's just brilliant. And it was such a, I was really lucky because it's, Matt did very easy. You're the lead and you're that guy and you have those lines.

Exactly. You know what this scene is? This is me looking out the window. That's the music. You know, that's going to help. That's the wind at your back. I was the one working. Do you know, by the way, you should know, Ben, that we were at, we watched the Superbowl

at Kimmel's. Oh, yeah. I have a problem. This is a problem. And at that moment that the, that the ad for your movie came on, Jason and I were sitting there and Jimmy happened to kind of drift in right between us. And then I said, Hey, quiet everybody. Here's the, here's the, the, the commercial for the big movie.

And Jason was all excited. And then there was just a silhouette for a second and then nothing silhouette. And then Jason's daughter goes, Dad, I thought you were in. Oh my God. In front of my kids, Ben, that can't be true. True story. Right. Jason, is that true?

That's a true story. There are many different commercials. I mean, it's my fault in the sense that I did see it and not notice, but, but it's not my fault. And since I didn't make it. And let me, can I talk to your daughter? This is your dad. He's very good.

This is all a joke, but it was, it was actually pretty funny. It was like, Hey, thought you were in and everybody goes back to their chips and watching other guys. I've been there. I mean, if things aren't panning out in your career and you've been in the movie and all of a sudden you're like, I think I show up in this trade. No, the worst is when you're at the premiere and they go past the point where you know your big scene was and it's, it's now gone.

And they've moved on and you're like, Oh, guess that was cut. You're like, Mom, no, this is where I have the monologue. Oh, maybe it comes later now. I don't know. Maybe it's during the credits. I saved it for doing the credits. Anyway, I'll do it for you at home. It'll probably need special features.

So Ben, talk to me a little bit about, you know, we had Matt who came and joined us on, on tour, he came to Madison, Wisconsin. When you think Madison, Wisconsin, you think Matt Damon, that's the thing about Matt is he'll always do something nicer than me. Hey, what you're doing is great. You know, Matt went a whole lot further. No, no, no, no, but we did, but we talked to him about, about how you guys started and how you guys knew each other back in the day and what that was like when you guys were

kind of, yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, it was, it was great really hearing from him. And I, and I'd love to hear your perspective of how you guys, and I'm sure you told, told it a million times. So forgive me if it's, if it's boring, but for us, it's really, I love that story. And I told Matt, I remember we made this really bad. I say bad about my friend, but this really pretty chintzy version of a movie called Southie and you guys came to the rap party that I was in.

And then you guys were about to do Good Will Hunting. And then our movie would like, they buried it under a couch somewhere and then you guys went on to like amazing. But I just love the beginnings of what you and Matt did and I want to hear it from you because I think it's a great story. And by the way, I had no idea you guys grew up so close to each other. No idea. Yeah, we did.

First of all, it's like, it's a really lucky thing. It occurs to me now. I saw him the other day and we're doing this movie together. There's very few people are lucky enough to spend their life in the same line of work with their best friends when they were kids, managed to stay friends, not end up hating each other, actually be friends and love each other. And not have one of them soar to the stratosphere and the other one be have nothing ever happen. That was brief.

But no, no, but I'm saying like, that's what usually happens. The fact that both of you guys are superstars. So in context, the reason we're asking this hacky question is because in air, the film that we're talking about, Ben, for the very, very first time, directs Matt. I love it. It's full circle. I love it. I love it.

Yeah, I mean, it was something that seemed really normal that I took for granted because there were, we were kids who, he was a bigger kid for a brief period. I was eight. He was 10. He was a big kid. He played baseball. He was really cool. He had a bowl cut that was feathered that we all wanted of course.

And he was, you know, nice to me and we were both interested in the same. Just kids who grew up two blocks apart and both wanted to be actors for whatever reason it is that makes you want to do that thing and hung out and then we're in the same friend group and then sort of went off and did like, oh, let's, you know, we're just like dumb and enough to think like, it'll pan out for us. We'll just go be actors. We'll just go work. And kind of sort of believe it and then live together.

But I think the reason why it wasn't a thing that sort of competition thing that you talk about is because we did a lot of auditioning very early on for the Mickey Mouse Club, for example. Amazing. I think maybe for some of Jason's early work. Gosling got the Mickey Mouse job. He did. He was one of them.

We did a Corey Haim film called Soul Man. I remember we both auditioned for. Robin and the Clooney movie. No way. Uh-huh. Yeah. We were extras together all the time. Matt did Mystic Pizza.

He had a line in that. I didn't get it. And always the thing was we would get our little act together and practice our scenes and do our work. I mean, nerdy doesn't even get to describe it. Really? But it really was a genuine thing where we were like, look, I hope I get the part. But if I don't, I really hope you do.

Right. You know, for a while we had this thing where we were like, well, just split all our money. You know what I mean? You guys have high voices. We like had, oh, you really did. Did you really say that? We really did. And we really split the money.

No way. We put it in the bank account. At the time, I was making the lion's share of the money. Yes. No way. How old were you? Yes, Sam. We had a joint bank account.

I think I was 14. That was 16. Oh, that's cool. That's really awesome. We put money in the ATM. And then it's like, okay. That's so cute. What do you want to get?

I saw you made a big withdrawal last weekend. Joking as much as you are. But it does show that on a certain level, there is a trust there that you guys just trust each other implicitly that there's just right. That that's on a very basic level. I like took for granted that he liked me and rooted for me and wanted me to succeed. We just didn't, we're lucky enough not to have the friendship of that the whole like it's not enough that I succeed. All my friends have to fail thing. Like, and I, there are people I've wanted to fail.

You know what I mean? I can be just as petty and bitter as any other actor, but I loved them and he loved me. And it felt like we would work the scenes together. And, you know, it actually, I think what made us sort of good writers and better actors was that we learned very early on to hear like, I'm not sure that works. That choice, you know, and you go, okay, let's try something else, you know, and get our facts, our sides. Let's try a lower voice. Do you ever give that note? That too.

I had to hit puberty. So wait, but you, but when you say you grew up, you grew up. Together in Boston, right? But you were born or raised in California? Like what's the California? I was born in California. My parents were at a teaching at a like an experimental school outside Berkeley briefly. And then actually my mom, and yes.

And then I moved back to Boston around two or three. I moved into a central square in Cambridge. And then Matt moved there from Newton when I was eight and he was 10. And that's when you met at the Bay at the basketball. And you got a Burger King commercial. That was your very first thing. Listen, I had done a Burger King commercial. Okay.

I'm sure you remember the slogan was sometimes you got to break the rules. Oh yeah. A little bit of a rule breaker. Really quick. I did it. I did it. These guys are gonna love this. I did a McDonald's commercial.

One of my first things where I worried, I worried about how I was going to impress a girl. And the catchphrase from my guy scene partner was, don't worry about it. I was like, how am I going to pay for the date? Don't worry about it. That's my story. So wait. Go back to the burger. Holy shit.

You're going to get hired one day. Ben's got a head of steam going. You're going to be out of the job. There's so much movement. You'll be out of podcasts. One of these days. Out of gas. Jesus.

You're fucking... Sorry, go ahead, Ben. Anyway, let me just... Can I regroup? Do you mind? Oh man, take all the time. Just go ahead and start over. Shake it off.

And then you think he's crying. So we were... I've established that we were very nerdy and a little weird. We used to have business lunches in what was called the Media Cafeteria. Amazing. Which at the time, there was a big ESL portion of our public high school, which was like 2600 kids, and that was where the ESL kids... I don't know why that was where we...

We liked to be surrounded by people who spoke other languages. I'm not sure what it was, but maybe we didn't want them to actually hear our business lunches. Sure. Because no business was conducted. Yeah. But we plotted things. We planned our careers. But look at you now.

Look at the business you guys are in now. Artist equity, yes? Yeah. Yeah. It is bizarre to have gone this far. And definitely a lot of... I don't think I would be as sane to the extent that I am had I not had somebody who was from where I grew up and who was my best friend and who was going through the same thing.

So you could... Because I'm sure you guys all know there are these moments in this business where you look around and go like, is this completely insane? Yeah. Every day. Absolutely. I feel as though, you know, I'm coming unglued. And having that when somebody shared that perspective.

And then so as we went on and on, so finally got to a place where, like with Last Duel, it was like, why haven't we just... We had so much fun every day on that set. It was so much fun. And we were just like, let's just do this. Let's just do movies together and with people we like. And we will be right back. SmartLess is in part brought to you by Nerd Wallet.

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He's asked a two-parter there. You can take him one at a time or you can ask him to repeat it. I get excited. I get excited. I know it. I know it. Do you ever write these things down? Pre-interview the Vince bit.

I don't know where you're going with that. I do know that I had done a couple of what I was the more experienced. I don't want to make Matt feel insecure. I had some early experience with professional acting. You're selling burgers. Well, not only I sell burgers, but I don't know if you know your public television history. I was on a show. Voyage of the Mimi.

No, Voyage of the Mimi. Science, it was also shown to sixth graders for their science class because I think because it was so gripping. And a young boy and his grandpa wrenching out a boat to scientists for experiments. And so I would periodically go off into a little Voyage of the Mimi. So Matt was a little threatened by that. And when I got to the high school, he kind of pulled me aside. And he said, listen, man, all right, this is the theater. It's not about your looks.

It's about the work. And I took that very seriously. I felt that I was hearing something, you know, real like the words of wisdom from a guy who understood it. I didn't know until that time he felt I'd been entirely bow guarding my way through life on like charming looks of which there were very few. Well, no, it sounds like actually you came roaring into high school just killing it. Yeah, you were crushing it. And Matt and Matt, I mean, by the way, I mean, again, no insult to Matt, but it sounds like he felt threatened by you, Ben.

And I want to just... I think maybe... I think maybe it's a little... I'm gonna show this on the guy. The other thing he said to me was like, you know the thing about Hoffman and Salesman is you can see the wheels turning, but he wants you to see the wheels turning. That day I'm 15 years old, Matt. No way.

That's hysterical. That's a true story. That's fucking amazing. However, that's why he's brilliant because that guy has been absolutely convinced that and has paid attention to like, you know, very little else in his free time other than acting since he was a little kid doing Wheelock Community College Theater when he was 11 years old. And he's been with absolute conviction that this is what he was going to do. And he was a lot smarter about it than me. He understood a lot earlier on.

He was like, it's just all about the director. I'm just gonna focus on the director. He was like passing on parts when we were broke. I said, what are you passing on? You can't pay the gas bill. How is this not good enough for you? Because he didn't like the director? Yeah, he just didn't feel he didn't have anything to offer.

You know? Wow. I was like, I'm doing after school specials about steroid abuse. You're passing on like movies. That's pretty great. But I will say this, you gave him a piece of advice that he has since paid for and given and he let us in on it last year when he came to join us, which was apparently you said to him, if somebody asks you to do something down the road, imagine that the same, you know, get it all the time. Hey, will you come and do this six months from now and come to show up at this thing?

Imagine that you would have to do it tomorrow and then let that be your answer. Yeah. If you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no. I did give him that. I never thought that was particularly wise. I just thought, no, it's because that was constantly saying yes and then be like, hey man, can you call them and tell them I'm sick? Right. And that's bullshit.

I've told minimum 50 people that piece of advice as if I came up with it my own and they have people love it and have latched onto it. Right, JB? We've talked about it all the time. I live it. I did it today. I do something like three months from now that sounds kind of interesting. I'll be kind of fun. But then I thought, well, actually, if it was on the calendar for tomorrow, would I wish that it was canceled?

If the answer is yes, pass. I love that. You know, the thing about that that I can't completely co-sign, like my dirty little secret is, I might pass on everything. Did you think about that? Like, I almost never want to get off the couch. Did you think about this show today, about passing on this show? Oh, I mean, I was half dollar late, wasn't I? Yeah.

They had to talk you out of it. So for the guy who likes to do nothing except sit on his couch every day like I do, I find it interesting that you're actually able to get up and work as hard as I think anybody could possibly work when it comes to directing. Like, that's a really, really all-encompassing job. So are you like me where it's like either all or nothing? I'm either working full or out. I think you and I have that in common, yes. And I think that part of it is, it's a little bit like, it's more sort of social things. Like, I feel actually kind of shy.

I don't really want to go say hi to people. I feel a little bit like, oh, I'm going to, you know, something's going to happen. This is going to make me feel awkward. But I love directing movies. And that movie in particular was the best experience I've had. And directing is hard and terrifying and at first I thought like, okay, even if I don't know anything about this, I know that I can at least work harder than everybody else. And so I thought, well, you put in 20 hours a day and that's what you do. And it made it excruciating and I got migraines.

But like to the extent that the movies, you know, I was happy with, I thought, well, it must be because I worked 20 hours a day and did nothing else and thought of nothing else. And eventually realized that you don't quite have to do it that way. And that actually this movie, which is the favorite movie I've ever made, I love this movie. It benefits entirely from the writing and acting of Jason and Matt and Chris and Viola and Christina and Matt Mayer. But it was so much fucking fun every day. Well, it's your fault. I mean, well, we don't have to do a whole thing on the kind of set you run and your talent and everything. But it was...

No, no, no. We can actually... Actually, I don't understand. We have 25 to 30. It was actually incredibly easy. Guys, we shot this down the street. We shot it in a business in an office building that you were supposed to be in an office building. So they basically just flipped the lights on.

Now, that's to take nothing away from Bob Richardson, who is like the best DP in the history of movies. But it was very fast. I think after... Wasn't it after like seven days we were already three days ahead? Yeah. Something like that? I wanted to go quickly and then you and Matt showed up. And like having not directed Matt, I didn't appreciate that.

When you're a director, right, you have your plans. You're worrying about all these other things. Yes, you're worrying about the performances. But I thought, okay, well, I won't have to worry about the performances. And I'll just worry about all the other sort of bullshit I'm doing that I think is relevant when really the actors are the only thing the audience is paying attention to. And like, you know, camera moves and that kind of thing. And Jason and Matt are such pros that I mean, it was like a dance to watch these two guys together. They've done it so much and so well.

So that as soon as you start to feel the dolly is laid, it's not going to be all of a sudden Jason's looking in his pocket for something that might be behind him. And that looks bad. And all of a sudden he makes maybe a little more mournful choice on that line delivery because it's going to give him an extra half step to the turn to where he knows the steady cam is going to come. The two of the guys... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I started feeling like you're making it for me. That part is so fun. I love that.

It really was amazing to see. In fact, it got to the point where because Bob's crew and everyone was so good, they started anticipating and trying to do it. And then the guys who were really good and women who were doing it were like, it started to just speed up. And finally I was like, Matt, Jason, don't do their job for them. You don't have to do everybody's job. Yes, I know you're great at it. But just worry about the scene because I think they kind of started having fun with it. Because I had wonters and you'd have to see this and that and Jason would know.

You're probably going to want that magenta in the background. And I thought you'd like the window and I was like, you son of a bitch. Yeah, I did want the window. I didn't think I was that transparent. Can you remember having any sort of significant creative negotiation with Matt, either in the writing process or in the directing process? Like giving him a note that he didn't want to take or writing a scene that he thought was kind of fine already? Because didn't you have the writing process like Goodwill Huntingham back in college where you would... Well, they won an Oscar.

You would talk about it or improv it and record it? We recorded it, yeah. On what were audio cassettes at the time. Kids, those were small, brown, deep cassettes. Really put in devices. Wait, really? You guys talked out the script? Yeah, because we never thought of ourselves as formal writers.

We had a great teacher, a drama teacher in high school who taught us kind of sort of writing, directing, acting and didn't sort of put them in distinct silos. So he was, we would actually end up making plays, which we later, I later realized we were act, write, direct them in effect. But we just thought we would improvise them and kind of distill them down and find a story. Such a great idea. So that's just how we know how to do it. This person did you such a favor by doing that, by sort of putting it all together, right? There's no question without Jerry Speck and Matt, or I, or my brother, or Matt Mayer, or Max Casala, or Nico Larsen, or all the people that came out of the program who are working and who are terrific would, I think, be working. Because he was, he taught us that and he taught us to like, to not take ourselves seriously, respect other people, but take the work that we were doing incredibly seriously.

And that was like that kind of, and there's that like great time of life when you have the older person as the mentor who you look up to in the, who's doing the thing you want to do, who says, this is meaningful, but you really have to work hard at it. And so we did. Ben, is that, that's it. So that was a teacher that you guys had at your public high school. I went to. I mean, our public high school just lucked out and got this guy who's a genius. That's amazing. And he was amazing for kids that didn't even end up wanting to be in theater and he was, I could do a whole thing on him.

But the truth is, I think that's part of why I learned to be collaborative is that Matt and I never fought or argued about stuff. It was always that we, and we never got our feelings hurt because most of the ideas are bad. So I'll have a bad idea. He'll have a bad idea. I'll have a bad idea. He'll have a bad idea. I'll have an idea what that's a little bit that may be better. And then Matt, that kind of key something in math that's mediocre, you know what I mean?

So we know we're building from there and it's never about, and then it just becomes about like finding the best thing until both of us feel like it can't be improved. And, and we kind of go like, and, and if there is a kind of difference of opinion, it always ends up coming down to who cares more. Yeah, I don't know. I really think this is about the, and he's like, man, that and I go, all right. Yeah, if you don't want to do it more than I want to do it, then we're not going to do it, you know? Or if I want to do it more than you don't want to do it, we're going to do it. Like that's just common. Amanda and I try to live by that.

There she is. Oh, look, it's Jennifer, a special guest. There she is. Hi. You can't hear us. Hi. Hi, Jen. Hi.

Hi, guys. You were just doing very well. We were talking about you in very favorable terms and so was your husband. Oh, thank you. I was singing some of your songs back to you. Sing, please sing. We're waiting for the night. Oh.

Oh, my love. It's waiting for two nights. Waiting for two nights. Oh, that's the mic drop right there. But thank you. She crushed it. That's when we're lucky that we're back. That is brilliant.

Thank you for saying hi. Yes, of course. Bye, Jennifer. She's looking forward to doing this with you guys. Oh, good. I love you. Hello, guys. I'm Scott DeRion.

Hello, guys. I'm Scott. And I'm one of the guys that will make the show. By the way, we just bypass Jason's. I didn't know this term. Creative negotiation. Yeah. Wait.

Way to take the yard out of it, man. You fucking find a way every fucking time. Business. My friend. Game. How much for the. Batteries. Hey Picasso.

How much painted you use? How many cubic liters of painted you use? That's the fucking art. Picasso had never had to negotiate with anybody because it's just a single thing. Well, what we're doing is like team stuff, right? So you gotta always negotiate. It is a lot of negotiations.

I mean, the lucky thing is when you don't have to negotiate, when you go like, you know, you do something, you write it, you give it to him, and then Jason sits down and reads the scene, and like, he made me cry on this. And then you feel like a jerk because you feel like that guy who just like, was it Marty Short or whatever, who's to go?

And then, oh, you know, you just wanna get one of those. What was the name of that character you played? Jiminy Glick. Jiminy Glick, I just watched him last night. I have a question. Mr. Affleck. Damn. Ruff, ruff, ruff.

And then he goes, don't. So to wrap up the Matt stuff, we'll leave him out of the rest of the interview. But the, because we've had enough of Matt, right? I mean, Will, with you, with your wordle, quartile, and squirtle every morning. I wanna get in on that. And Matt was like, you're not ready.

I was like, we're not ready. Jason dropped out, he couldn't take the heat. No, it's not the heat. It's Will likes to tell you how much better his score could have been had he done X, Y, or Z. Anyway, this really, but. Wait, wait, I wanted to close the Matt part of it.

Tell for the, and you could, I know I would love to do a full podcast with you about artist equity and all the studio economics that you're embodying. They didn't tell me you didn't wanna do this one. We put our audience to sleep. So for those that have narcolepsy, do the quick version of generally what the concept is,

what you guys are doing versus what exists and why that makes sense for you guys doing this since you're buddies and you wanna kind of spread that kind of buddy feeling in the process. It's a tough elevator pitch and I over talk and go on too long. So it's a bad comment. Sean will cut you off, don't worry.

Basically what it is is like over the years, as I'm sure you have, we start to kind of know it. Like there's money that gets spent on things that don't end up making the movie any better. And the more money that you spend on what you do, the more obligation you have, the sort of more risk there is and the less likely people are to do things

that you consider more interesting and they wanna be more conventional. And then I looked around and I just, as a director, started to really understand and value the people on the crew who made such a significant difference to the quality of what you're doing, both in terms of speed and in terms of the environment

and the way in which you're able to perform it. I'm a big believer that the performance really ultimately is what draws people in and performance and the writing. And so we came up with this idea of never thinking anyone would ever actually fund us to do a movie studio that was predicated on two things. Basically allowing the crew and the artist being the writer.

I mean, I consider the crew the artist, which is the whole group, actors, directors, writers, so on, as well as cinematographers, sound mixers, everybody who collectively create the value in what we're doing to benefit from the upside of it in a really meaningful, significant way, but also to be responsible for it. In other words, listen, if it goes over,

you're gonna get less. If it comes in under, you're gonna do better, but all of us have to make it good. Otherwise we're not gonna get anything and sort of treat people like grown-ups, believe they can be accountable and also believe that because incentives have not historically been aligned

between the people financing movies traditionally and the people making them always. And so without going into too great a detail, the idea was like, and let's separate this out from, like what is the value of a movie? Well, usually they'll use comps. Like, well, what's the budget? And what did you make on your last movie?

And especially now, because there's no backend and no gross, that's sort of it, right? Well, I've always felt that was akin to going into the Apple store and saying, I'll tell you how much I give you for the iPhone when you tell me how much you paid the guy that put it together. But that's not how it works, right?

So why does it have to work in the other way? So by being agnostic as a financier and producer, this studio, we had to then hire all the business affairs and legal and physical production and so on so that we could be an entity significant enough to take on the entire creative responsibility of developing, producing, shooting, and delivering the movie.

And in exchange, we got to say, look, this is what it's gonna cost. It won't cost a dime more than that. If it goes over, we pay for it. But you have to sort, we're gonna be the ones who take on the burden, the role of saying, we're gonna deliver something good. If it's terrible, it's our fault.

But you are gonna sort of put your trust in us to be able to do this. I'm sure whatever partners that we work with, there are excellent, brilliant people with distributing and marketing movies, we don't do that. We don't wanna do very many movies, but we wanna just really make good movies with people we like.

I love that. And that's it. And we think people should be paid more for what they need. So you're basically taking on the financial risk by funding the production effectively. And then you're saying, we don't need, you don't get the leverage financier by giving us the money to make it,

assuming that we don't have it to make it. We actually do. We're gonna spend the money to make it. And we're basically coming to you and saying, we'd like to sell you this product. We're gonna take care of the wholesale part. Here's the retail price. Who wants to buy it?

Exactly. Yeah? Exactly. It makes a lot of sense. That's what he just said. He just said. I'm trying to see if my brain heard it right. We'll be right back.

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Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash S-M-A-R-T-L-E-S-S. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. And back to the show. So now, but then once you have finished the completion of a film, you now have to enter into a whole nother thing because you're going out there to distributors. Yeah, so are you working with all different distributors,

all different- Yeah, obviously business is like, there's all sorts of changing a lot. You have streamers, you have companies that are theatrical and streaming and so, and that's, nobody's quite figured that out yet. My feeling is people are watching things and interested in them and that's gonna be ongoing,

how they figure out the economics of where they place value on it. If we keep our focus to a few things and try to make them really good. And also, I really just felt like, interesting original dramas, comedies, sort of ideas were starting to fall away from theatrical world. Yes.

I was like, nah, that's not in movie theaters. And so with this movie, and this movie's themes are kind of congruent with the ideas and the philosophy of this business. Like, what are the people worth and how should they be compensated? And isn't this the story itself, I think is interesting.

I want people to go see movies like this. Yeah, I watch, watching your trailer, I thought that very thing, the first time I saw it, I thought nobody gets to make movies like this anymore because we've lived in a world where, and everybody has benefited and participated to a certain degree in these,

sort of whatever you call them, these temples or these- Including me. Yeah, no, that's what I mean. Everybody, all of us have benefited in certain ways. However, what happened was, the result of that is that these other kinds of movies that you're talking about-

Without special effects. Without special effects and that are story driven and that are- Well, your hair. But beside that- Yeah. Yeah. Those things don't really,

those kind of movies don't really exist as much anymore. Not in the theaters. Wow. There's 3,000 screens, right? Well, part of the problem is fucking Ozark. Yeah, exactly. Because it used to be that to put on a movie, you're competing, like Lawn Order or whatever, Magnum.

You know what I mean? You had an 11-inch black and white and you could watch Simon and Simon, or you could go see- Well, you know, harder at 1600. Oh my God. And now, you've got Succession and Ozark and really good fucking stuff,

where people at home go, you know what, I can pause, I can watch tomorrow. That's made it very difficult. But it looks like they're approaching a good combo where you're getting a nice window of time in the Brick and Mortar theaters. You can see it on a big screen if you want. Or you can wait, what is it?

I think it's now basically six weeks before it'll be at your home, as opposed to the old method was like three months, and it was- I'm really grateful to Amazon. The first time they're really going for the, we're gonna do a theatrical, traditional, you know, 3,500 screens out in the theaters.

Go see it. You can't wait to see it for free. Like, not sort of upstaging it with a very impending free version at home. This is Amazon, right? Yeah, Amazon, yeah. And they really are taking a flyer on this. And I really, I mean, I hope it works honestly,

obviously for the movie, but also so that we can do it again. And the reason why going back to that model, the one thing that we do ask is that like, the Hollywood model is kind of like, I get paid in failure, right? Right. Like, I still have the money, I mean, I spent it,

but like, I made money on Geely. I didn't have to give it back. Right. You know what I mean? Plus when broke, and I got a car, you know? So this is like, we're not gonna get paid here. We're just gonna spend what it costs to make the movie itself.

And we're all gonna show up and invest our time and energy. And if it works, and if it's successful, and if it's financially successful, you'll get paid whether you're the cinematographer, whether you're the writer's director, much more otherwise than you would have. But the relationship between how you're compensated and how much it connects to audiences is really direct

versus just like, hey man, you know, I don't get out of bed for less than whatever. And that's what I kind of, you know, that and such a nice thing to not have that vibe, you know, where the people who are doing it just wanna be there. And I think this film's got a real good chance of hitting that sort of zeitgeist thing,

only for two reasons. Number one, it's a story we all think we know, but we don't. The whole story about how and why Nike got into business with Michael Jordan when Michael Jordan entered the NBA. And when this whole start of this sneaker, this whole Air Jordan thing, like it's an incredible American business story

that no one really knows how it went together. And this movie, explain it. And you're releasing it during March Madness, which I think is genius. And first of all, I hear it's great from a few different people who've seen it. Two of them are in the movie, but they say it's great. Believe them.

And... You can come by the house and watch it anytime, by the way. I told Jay, he didn't invite you because I told Jason two or three times, please, ask him to come. I think he broke up during that part of the phone call. I'm desperate to see it. And I think Bradley saw it.

Anyway, whatever it is, I'm desperate to see it. I think it sounds amazing. Bradley won't let me see this movie until it's mixed. So I think that movie's great. I heard the script and I remember saying to him, like, this is the movie. We're talking about Maestro. Dude, Maestro.

Really, yeah. Incredible. And the test, it's amazing. It's fucking amazing, talking about movies that nobody makes. It's the best script I've ever read. It's really, really good. But I was gonna say, for your movie, what's great is,

because it is, like as Jason says, it does tell the story and it's so great. And people like Jason, this is where they learn stuff is from the movies, because they've never read a book before. They have no life experience. Right, they have no life experience. So, but truly, everybody says,

and even Jason says this, which you never say, you weren't talking about yourself, about how much you love the movie. I can say that he legitimately loves it. So it's, I'm very excited to see it. Now, let's talk about Batman. Let's talk about the real thing that everybody's said there. Can I jump in here for a second?

Let's get down to business. Hey, Sean. No, because the only time we really hung out was when we did that thing with Kimmel about the Batman. And then I stuck my head in as Lego Batman. And you guys all laughed at me. I thought it was funny. We do have two Batman's on the podcast, Sean.

I know, that's kind of cool. It's very cool. One real and one cartoon. But I saw the trailer for The Flash and everybody was like freaking out when you came on the screen. You know what? That movie's good. I hear it's amazing.

That movie's really good. I hear that movie's fucking cool. They made it real. Yeah, I love that. And it's my best shit I've done. I finally figured out how to play the guy. No, really? For real?

I was like, hold on, is that, I quit. I know I quit. And I know I came back to, but I got it now. It's like, you know, you do the audition and you're on your way home and you're like, no. Wait, what was the moment? What, why did the penny drop? What happened?

I mean, I don't want to get a spoiler, but it was a scene where I got, I get caught, I get saved by Wonder Woman during a conflagration with some bad guys. And she saves me by, I mean, I'm sure I'm like the spoiler, you know, DC assassins. She saves you some way. She saves me with the lasso of truth.

And so what happens is that Batman divulges, you know, some of his real feelings about his life and his work. And it helps you see the character and now you want another chance to play it. I was like, wait a minute, I got it. Am I still, can I, guys? Are we still rolling?

Can we write another scene? This is a story in my fucking life. By the way, Ben, one time I remember years ago, and I asked him about it. I remember Alec Baldwin saying in an interview that he was driving home from Nautzland when he was on Nautzlanding and like on a Friday night and just going like, oh fuck, that's how you do the scene.

And he's like, from that moment on, he made a deal with himself that he would never leave it, that he would always figure out the scene while he was there. And it always stuck with me, especially because it was Nautzland. It's so funny, Alec told me a similar story, but totally different.

Is that true? Yeah, he loves this metaphor. He's like, you know why I'm a good actor, but not a great actor. And I was like, no, Alec, and I don't want to answer that. It was like because I was playing Skowalski on Broadway. And he was supposed to leave the screen door. And I guess in some, and the screen door wouldn't open,

and he was exiting it, it wouldn't open. I shook it once, and I shook it twice, and it wouldn't open. And so I stepped around it, and right then, right then I realized what would Brando do. He would have kicked it down. He would have kicked it down. And I was like, so, oh, kick it down.

I don't know, oh, but he's very focused on that like moment after thing. Dude, that's hilarious. I want to ask you about, you've won two Academy Awards, Good Will Hunting and Argo Lighting. Thank you. I was wondering if we were going to get to that or let you into it.

It's been the Jason Bateman show. Your publicist is like all over me about that. I was like, okay, got it. Texting, texting, texting. No, but I want to talk to you about Argo because he wrote me one of the funniest emails, which I want to read right now. We can cut it if you want, but it's really funny.

Anyway, Victor Garber, who's a friend of ours, right? He was staying in my guest house here while you were filming Argo. He said you were in his guest house, but go ahead. What's that? He said you were in his guest house, but he was in his guest house.

Yeah, sure, whatever, we swap. We share, like you share a bank account, we share a guest house. So, I want to still share a bank account with Matt. All of a sudden the deal's over after born, you know. But you shot Argo three houses down for me and I would walk over to my pajamas

and sit down and watch you direct. And it was super, super fun. And then you won the Oscar and I was there at the Oscars. And I wrote an email to you and I said, I'm so proud of you, I'm so thrilled for you. I still, and then all the other sentences had question marks. I said, I still haven't seen it and I probably won't add to it.

I'll probably have to Netflix it and someone will have to read the subtitles to me, but I'm sure I'll love it like everyone in Iran says they do. And then I said, I love your speech, blah, blah. And you wrote back, I saw your little sweet face when I was standing up there accepting my Oscar.

In the middle of the greatest triumph of my professional life, I thought, I have got to tell Sean to go tanning. I fucking, so when I was doing all this research for you today, like all this stuff, I found that old, I was like, I'm gonna look at old emails. I laughed out loud.

And then you wrote me another one. I haven't taken me up on it. Still, still pasty. No, not at all. I'm translucent. So good. Oh, Benjamin, this has been amazing. Way too much of your time.

Is it over? They told me it's two hours. So only an hour for me. It's two hours. You don't usually do it two hours. It just feels like two hours. Oh, great. It used to go three, right? I am a big fan.

I gotta tell you guys, I love the Mark Maron show. You are wonderful. Oh, I'm sorry. Wrong show, wrong show, wrong show. Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. No, the truth is you guys are, you guys do a great job. You managed to be very interesting to listen to.

And yet very little of substance has ever said. We distract you with all the constant noise. That's all it is. It feels like, kind of wonderful. I enjoyed it. It's an honor and a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having me. Well, like, wonderful.

You are honest to God, you are fucking amazing in the movie. From the first time I met you on the day of smoking aces, when I walked into that scene and you did the monologue about congenital alcoholism and herpes in a small penis, I have never, if you go back and watch that movie, there is not a shot of me when I'm not on the movie. That's not from the movie, dude.

He was just telling something weird. You were just hanging out, then, remember? He put it in the movie. He put it in the movie. It was, I was like, this guy is a genius of genius. And I have never forgotten it. And then it's just been a pleasure to work with you. No, no, your fault.

Genius. Love, Joe. Great in that, great in extract. I have loved it. It's been my pleasure. We had fun on extract. I think you're a genius. Yeah, you are a genius.

I do. I think all that you've got. My mother thinks that word's overused. Yeah, it is. She hears it a lot about her sons. But we're really happy, I will say this. I'm so happy that you're directing movies and you're making movies like this

and that you just continue to do fucking great stuff. Yeah, I can't wait to see it. I love it. This is all I want to do. You do want to direct more than act, right? You love it. You're so good at it. I started really loving acting finally for real

when I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm just gonna direct movies. This is, I'm done with this. Right. I don't care. I just like directing. I was kind of like, well, I'm already here. And I can, you know.

Do them both, right? Act in the movies and be direct. And then I just let go. And I remember Sidney Pollock once saying, when we did, he was a director and an actor and we did a movie called Changing Lanes 20 some years ago. And he said to me, you know why I'm a good actor? I was like, no, no, no, Sidney Pollock.

Cause I don't give a shit. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't understand at the time but I know what he's getting at now, which is that so much of it just has to do with letting go and being relaxed. And trying things and not sweating what people are going to think.

And, you know, you know, trying the take that at the time Jason and Matt make fun of you for, but later on works in the movie. We know what we're talking about. Wait, really? Wait, which one was? It was the take where I really wanted to play my part and I interrupted Matt and made him wait a second.

And you were like, maybe too big. Maybe that's too big. I said that? Uh-oh. No, I believe in the movie. Matt was right out in front of you. You were like, you can't do that. Hold on, hold on.

Oh, wait a second. Oh, wait, is this the one with the blaster glasses and the jogging outfit? Oh, no, you were all equivocal about that and that didn't make, that was too big. Dude, it's on the poster. What do you mean it didn't make the movie? You're on the poster in your phaser glasses

and your jumpsuit. That is historically accurate. I get it. That is taken from historical footage. No one's going to know that though. They're just going to be like, oh boy. I'm trying to promote it. Why?

That's what I'm hearing. The whole point was to get to the fact that that is not made up. That is the clothes that were worn. And his purple is purple Porsche. He had a purple Porsche that said Nike Man. This is film night listener. The guy who created Nike.

I can't wait to see it. And I do, once I started doing it and doing it with people I really loved. And it's true, I would, I love directing in a different way but acting has become really fun. Tender Bar was really fun. Last tool was really fun. The Way Back was really fun, weirdly, for a movie about.

A person whose child dies and is alcoholic. You were awesome. It was like, it become joyful because I started developing my own criterion and stopped kind of making it about like, you know. As Will says, it's a sexy indifference, right Will? I don't say that, no. I'm going with overweight indifference.

No. Indifference is attractive. Well, whatever you're doing, please keep doing it, man. Just such a fan. You're so great at what you do and you always have been. And just such a fan. Thank you very much. And I'm going to hold you guys to it. This is your all in the next one for free.

Thank you. Oh my God. Oh yeah. I told you the model. Yes, thank you. We'll do it for free. We'll just do it for the art. I thank you. You're amazing for doing this. I'm too handsome for film. Will you let me into the fucking octurtle battle or do I do my JV stuff?

Tell Matt. Here it is. Yeah, give my agent your number. Yeah, I know. Okay, great. Does Matt own the invites? Yeah. He's the commissioner. So did he really keep you out?

I'll talk to him. Yeah, totally locked me out. Well, not even locked me out. He was like, maybe, maybe keep working. You know, maybe like that. Like out of luck for me. Try the cross work. He finally, I tell him this.

This is inside. He finally won today for the first time in like six weeks and he was ecstatic. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He was having a tough time. But like I said, once I found out that he's in the low 50s, now I maybe I'm wondering if there is kind of an intramural

league that I can be. Because that is- You're feeling Ben's going to wax all you guys. Yeah, it won't take you long. Believe me, you're a sharp guy. It will not take you long to fucking make us all look like fools. I'm starting to lose it. Yeah.

You are y'all young. Ginko. Ginko. Thanks guys. I have a question about Batman. Oh, sorry. Sure, sure, go ahead. No, no, no, no.

Feel free. Go ahead, call it. Ben, love you. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, I love you, pal. Very, very nice. Jason has my number and you guys honestly got like, the movie is here, sitting here on the projector.

And if you ever want to come at any point, even if I'm not here, it's like sitting up, bringing the bell, come watch the movie. You probably don't give a shit and you're going to end up, you know, watching it. No, no, no, they do. You live about three blocks from Will.

Oh, wow. So someone has no excuse. No, no, we'll walk over. By the way, we will cut this, but I love the new house. Yeah. Thank you. Well, the rental is not too fucking shabby. Is that the one you're talking about, Sean?

No, the one that they just purchased. Sean is keeping up with some of our celebrity journals. No, no, no, I have a real estate agent who's known. Oh. But yeah, and I saw it under construction and I was like, this is amazing. So I'd love to see it when it's done. You are the first to be invited.

No, we heard it. We got it recorded. Thank you, Benjamin. We love you. Thanks for the rest of the night. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye, bud. Wow. Well, that guy, I mean. Fucking wattage. So when we were talking about. Big star wattage. I mean, we had Damon on tour and that's fine.

Matt was fine. But then we have Ben, athletic. And just coming in with a fucking wattage. And you're like, well, that's the reason. Now that's a star. That's a star. Yeah, through outer space. Yeah.

Yeah, through outer. You're not like, remember if fucking Matt showed up in like a fucking hoodie and he fucking, you know what I mean? I just get through the interview. Just get through the thing. And then Ben shows up and he's handsome. He's talented and he's smart as fuck. He's prepared.

And he's prepared. And he's like, there's gorgeous. Yeah. Hang on a second. Jason, let me see your hands real quick. I want to see your hands while you're talking. Because it's really dark where you are. No, all jokes aside, wow, that was awesome.

Yeah. And when I was doing like the research, you know, learning about him and stuff and about his past and whatever, I was like, and then you go through his credits, you're like, wow, you forget like, wow, bang, bang, bang, hit after hit after hit after hit. He's been so relevant and talented and successful for so long. And I feel like he's only halfway done.

Yeah. And I think, I don't know if this is true. Does anybody know it? Didn't he, hasn't he played Batman more than any other actor? I'll bet. I think that that might be, I think he might be right. Yeah. I think so.

He's played it five times, I think. Really? It's just, I'm so happy for him. This movie, he just, he crushes it and Matt and him did a great job writing a lot of stuff too. He's such a natural as a director. I mean, Jason, it's kind of what you talk about when you spend all that time doing it

and you've got a head on your shoulders and you spend all that time on set and in that environment. Yeah. You've got to absorb something. You absorb something and you can kind of apply it. And he, you have done it and he has done it and he's made so many great films, as you said. Sean. Sean.

No, no, no, I know. But what was the one about Iran, the hostages? Argo. Argo. So Argo, the town is amazing as well. That's another great film that he directed. Yes, the town. I love that movie.

Really, really good. That's what I'm saying. I didn't even get a chance to talk to him about the town. That was so good. I know. Well, because you were asking too many questions about at a left field. He just texted me.

I hate Sean. Mm-hmm. Well, he's spelt at S-H-A-W-N, but the hate is spelt correct. No way. No, that's not true. No, he's the guy. My God.

What an interesting lot. I'd like to read his book. I want to read his book. I want to read Downey's book. Um... Just a book. Any book would be great. I guess, right?

It would be amazing at this point. It's top to bottom, left to right. Right? Yeah, as long as the book has a... Bye. Bye. Ding, ding, bye. And I turn.

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