SmartLess - "Bill Simmons"

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

We go head-to-head with the wise and opinionated Bill Simmons (podcaster, sportswriter, cultural critic, founder of The RInger). And yes, we go deep: Jason gets to talk baseball, Will gets to talk soccer, and Sean dives into the psychology of sport. With a guest like this, we’re willing to pay a luxury tax for this week’s game.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Well, say five nice things about me. Quick call, handsome, tan voice, funny, charming, charming, selfless. What else? That's it, I think. We went over five, but we couldn't get to 10. No, you were in a... I feel like I could cut you off. I five, but we couldn't get to ten. Well, no, you ain't, it felt like you were gonna keep going. I feel like I cut you off. I don't think I could possibly get ten. Oh, and an incredible boxer. Welcome to Squirtle.

Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. This is smart. Blast.

You know, the one thing I will miss about New York is the prepared meals at the grocery store, because I just, just right before this, I just finished having sushi with the, you know, the spicy tuna. And then, but I always go there and I get like the spaghetti. Like don't you guys love that? You know we go. You know the spicy tuna and then but but I always go there and I get like the spaghetti like don't you guys love that? Like you know we have those out here on the west coast. No, but but not to walk to You know you just walk in you get like a spaghetti and meatballs and you just On your house is beginning meatballs is not sushi. I mean, I'm gonna check it out right now But you check that out. Well, I explained to Sean that if you live near a place that sells pre-packaged food, you can walk to get it. Could you, Sean? You could walk to large

want. If you wanted to, I'm not to believe in you. It's kind of far. Kind of far. Well, I mean, for a guy who doesn't like walking up a flood of stairs, yes. Yes. No, that's not true. He does walk. I will say this about Sean. I like the times when I call him. He's walking. And it's I love to walk. He does. By the way, Amanda says she saw you and all of Sandra knocking down the big hill over here on the other day. That's so adorable. Yeah, will likes a good walk. From the afternoon, I can just see you sort of pushing your laptop aside and saying, reach

for the intercom there in the mansion and you say, Han, what room you in? Are you up for a walk? And then you guys put your angle weights on. You zip into your bag, right? Your sweat bag? I put my sweat bag on and I put my body weights on. And I start climbing that hill. And you know what, the first time I really did that hill

was with you, JB, during the pandemic. And JK, JK. And I remember the first time we did it, and I was like, oh my God, and you were like, you were so good, I was like, fuck, this is so hard. And now I've done it, you know, every time. I know, and well, you live on a hill. You live on a hill.

And so I do try biking, I biked up that one. So you did not. Yeah, that was a whole different thing. That is brutal. I've seen a couple guys do it, and they're barely, they're barely going forward as they go. Yes. Exactly. God bless the 10 speed. But I've seen, I've seen JB, I've seen you over the years, a few times on that hill and usually give me like a scornful look or

whatever, like a sort of a shitty like the, but I just honk and swerve and you try to scare you. Well, it's in the family because Amanda yesterday, I always on this like Tesla comes and say, and the swerving, I'm like, what the fuck? And then it's Amanda waving, you know, yeah, brightly, she's waving brightly. With the Drake just pouring out her window. I just talked to her yesterday. Yeah, end of story.

I were though three hours. Yeah, how's your ears? I love talking to Amanda. She said she's gonna throw me a party when I come home. We got them right, we are. Can I go? I'm like, you, she's going to throw me a party when I come home. We got them right. We are. Can I go? I'm like, you asshole is better at throwing a party.

Are you kidding? Yeah, you're kidding. Isn't it? Isn't it like a week now? JB, you're looking real stripy today. Are we going back on the golf course today? You are. Yeah, I like the shirt, Jay.

It's been a while. I got the shirt while I was visiting with Will out there east. Yeah. I'm going out there to one of a Burbank's finest courses today. And I'm going to enjoy myself. What a life. What a life. I feel like I have something more to say, but maybe I'll think of it while we're talking to our really high level guest here. Oh, nice. Okay. We've bored this person. Huh? We've bored this person. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, guest. They're day to day. You need to do.

And you know, it's not, it is not the first time he's been exposed to our pain. He's been here before, and I don't want to, I don't want to spoil anything. But it was during a time very, very early on. We didn't really know what we were doing. Things were very, very topical in our interview, so it didn't age well. And there's a few week delay before we put these on, and COVID was, so we ended up not even airing the episode, but he's been, we've got a jack of all trades

and a master of all. Huh? His books have been New York Times bestsellers, his columns and newspapers and websites are instant must reads, his television appearances are a point in TV, and his overall opinions on all things culture, whether it be entertainment,

politics, sports, are unapologetically honest and singular. He has a degree in political science and a masters in print journalism. We three dummies admire him for his already massive success and something we're just trying to figure out, but we love him for his profound work on the Jimmy Kimball show. Please welcome Boston's own William John Simmons III. Bill, we can't out of town. Please. Bill Simmons. Wait a minute. What? Sean still doesn't know who I am. No, I love Bill Simmons. Wait, what happened to the show? We've never aired it because what we talked about was like what was happening that week. And really? Yeah, it was just, it didn't. Yeah, it did one of the first test shows.

Yeah. It wasn't a test, but it wasn't a test. You were one of our big shots right up front along with that shepherd. Oh, so you just squashed it. Oh, I should feel much worse about this. No, it's not even air. It was too, Jason's right, it was too topical. It was too, like, exactly. It was like, what was going on? It was like made. You're not alone. They were caught. I think tapers, same thing happened with Jake Tapper, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought you guys didn't like me. And then like, and maybe I said something about those are back. Yeah. We tried to edit it and make it entertaining. It just couldn't make it work. We, we, we love you and revere you in spite of your allegiance

to certain teams. Put it that way here. Certain teams. Like you mean every Boston team? No, not every Boston team. What where's your beef? What don't you like about? I'm not going to I don't want to get into it back and forth to Bill Simmons. He'll crush me. Are you kidding? I don't have the feelings.

I don't have the fire. The only team you have passion for are the other Maple Leafs. Well, you didn't for a while, right? Well, I'm mad. We had a cheap owner and he cost us a Stanley Cup. And I was my 20s and spiteful and I got mad. Right. But now you're back.

Now I'm in a better spot. You're back with the bears? The bears, the brewers. Yeah, they do have the bear more. I mean, the Hershey bears. I thought you became a Hershey bear as a man of the age. Well, we're taping this right now and Mookie Betts is going back to Fenway Park, which was the most traumatic red socks thing that's happened in the last 30 years. Yeah, which was the most traumatic Red Sox thing that's happened.

It's going to be the last 30 years. Yeah, he was our best guy. You guys are both huge baseball fans. Yeah. And did you guys, when Mookiebats came to the Dodgers, was there, did you guys fire some text back and forth? No, I told them. I told all my Dodger fans.

I was like, you guys won the lottery. This guy's amazing. This is the biggest mistake the Red Sox had made in my lifetime. I couldn't get too mad because we won four World Series and I had said before we won the first World Series that I would probably sell my soul to win one World Series. So we won four. Wait, wait, wait.

I thought it was only two. When was there four? So you did sell your soul. I just want to get it. No, we won four. Yeah, I do think I might be going to hell. I think I might have said that drunkenly one night that I would sell my soul.

So it's hard to complain too much, but we had this awesome guy who was great in the community and he's so much fun to watch and they just trade him. How far were the Red Sox from making that deal? Did they have an opportunity to match with the Dodgers' offer them? They got super smart and analytical about baseball players as they hit their 30s, how their production to clients and you're basically paying for past performance, which is true

with like the sluggers. But like the Sean Hayes kind of wary athletic types. Oh boy, that hurts. He's pretty nicely into their 30s. Wary, you know, and Sean is still playing squash and doing whatever he's doing. Look at my, I got my things on. Look at this. He's an oppression rap. He's got his elbow from all of the started.

Camoring the piano, every now and then. Bill, I wanted to ask you, what, I mean, you are sort of a jack of all trades, as Jason said, and you, you, you apply it on lots of different things. But sports is sort of the, was the lead, that was the sort of the cutting edge of, that got you into this world. What was it about you, as a kid, where you like, this is gonna be my milieu? I'm just a sports guy.

I love sports so much, and it's gotta be my life. What was the genesis of you as the ultimate sports guy? Well, it also might have been not having a life. You know, I was the only child and I absolutely love sports. I was all into it and all the Boston teams, my dad had Celtic season tickets, just kind of threw myself into it. And at some point in college, I had a calm in college that front, really from the first week I was in college.

And I was like, I wonder if I can get paid for this. So it was one of those. I just love sports. I remember everything. I have opinions. I have a sense of humor. Can this be something? But it still took me the entire 90s to get there. But you early on decided that you were going to make your journalism come from the perspective of the fan as opposed to sort of trying to stay neutral and just kind of report the facts. Was that shaped by your experience as a Boston fan and that the Celtics were just killing it there and the, what was it? The late 70s or 80s, right? We had a nice run, right? And then the socks were giving you a lot of pain. So did that kind of shape, that's more of like,

I'm a very passionate fan by virtue of the local teams. And so let's do that angle. It was two things. The first one was that the way people wrote about sports back then was very, you know, reportery, like non-fan stuff, right? And it just wasn't the way my friends and I talked. So I never really liked reading that coverage that much because I was like, do these people even like sports?

They just seem like angry old white guys. So it was that. And then the other thing was, because I couldn't get in the club houses, I was writing like a sports column on the internet. I couldn't get press passes for anything. So I really tripled sports column on the internet. I couldn't get press passes for anything. So I really tripled down on, all right. I'm gonna write from the fans perspective. A couple of the writers that I really liked to done that.

Like there was this book, the screenwriter William Goldman had written, called Wait till Next Year, where he wrote all of his parts for about New York sports from a fans perspective. There's Roger Angel and the New Yorker was another one. So I was like, I feel like that's a better lane for this. So I kind of just threw myself into that

and it kind of worked. What was your first moment where you got, not validated, but got on trade. Like where somebody said, okay, you can come in, you can get into the locker room, you can get into the press box, you can have access. What was that moment? Yeah, how do you get into the locker room?

Yeah, that was, so ESPN got my calm in 2001, and I had a little more juice at that point to go to stuff. But at that point, I was like, you know what? Having some distance from this, and writing from the fan side is actually better for me, because that was weaving pop culture and all my stuff. And I was like, I actually think like, this is a better lane.

So for really all the 2000s, I tried to stay away from being kind of too embedded with athletes and getting in there and just kind of being detached. And then in the 2010s, I realized, because I had so much, I don't know, such a high profile at that point. I could talk to just about whoever I wanted.

And I was like, you know what? Now that I'm in my 40s, there's stuff to learn from some of these guys, from some of these coaches. And I really kind of threw myself into just kind of learning more from people who played in coach. Yeah, there was that big transition. You talk about becoming a high profile.

So listen to for those of you that aren't, you you know sports junkies like me and Sean Hayes. You know Bill exploded onto ESPN. He started a podcast of dynasty with with Grant Land and then the ringer. And my podcast was O7, Sean. How about that? It was like me and Mark Maren and like two other dudes. Yeah, I know. I know who you are. I know you've been around.

I know what you do. So tell us about that transition was not gradual. It was pretty not overnight. I don't mean to diminish it or belittle it at all. I don't mean that at all. It was very deserved what happened. Maybe it was just not overnight. I don't mean to diminish it or belittle it at all. I don't mean that at all. It was very deserved what happened. Maybe it was just overdue. But were you comfortable in that transition?

Not only what it did for you publicly and being sort of famous and recognizable? Yeah, that kind of maturing. From ESPN to the next chapter? Well, being on air, like all of a sudden, you were, I remember seeing you on TV. On TV. And I was like, I was like, who is this guy? And I all of a sudden, you were, I remember seeing you on TV. And I was like, I was like, who is this guy?

And I was like, oh, Bill said, oh, that's what Bill Simmons looks like. And listening to you talk, and like, it was just this great, new personality. I remember how disappointed you were at how handsome he was. Yeah, he's handsome too. But there really was definitely like an unapologetics or to use a word again. You didn't really make much of an effort to be some like zippy on-air personality. Like you were just like, I'm just a guy and I got an opinion

and it's backed with knowledge and facts and here we go. It was fun. Yeah, you were fine with just being a plain regular guy, which we really admire. Yeah, we're just small. Yeah, it was actually fun to do those shows because I would just kind of call it like it is. Yeah.

And I think people were surprised initially because it was very like, No, Barclays doing a good job. Studio shows were very, yeah, Barclays could do because he was a hall of famer. But like when the media guys usually came on they were way more careful. I went going backwards, like probably O6,

I made a decision like every single year I want to try to add something and take a swing at something. I don't want to be in the same spot at the end of the next year that I'm in right now, so what can that be? So like in O7, that was when I started 30 for 30, I sent the memo we created a new Connor show. That was when I started writing my basketball book and that was when I started doing my podcast

and then the next year after that, it was like, all right, how can I keep going? How can I keep going? And that led to Grandland in 2011. And then just TV in 2012 and was just each year, what can I do? I don't want to be in the same spot. What I love about it, sorry, and correct me

if I'm wrong, Bill, is that you say you do all these things and you're like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And it feels like you're at ESPN, then you're at HBO, I think, for a minute. And it's almost like those places just couldn't contain you. You ended up, you're like, well, fuck it, I don't need them, I don't need them. I'll just create my own network. I'll create my own vessel because then I don't have to answer to all that. Is that kind of how it went?

Yeah, I realize I got suspended in 2014. That's fun. From ESPN for, uh, those were dealing all that heroin, right? I mean, yeah, I turned out the age was just not. Yeah, certainly. I don't know. Wait, what did you get suspended for? I said some stuff about the NFL commissioner who was their biggest partner and they got

upset. And when I got suspended, something weird happened. All these people reached out like, hey, when you branch off, I'd love to invest or I'd love to. I said, wait, what's going on? And that really made me start thinking about it pretty seriously. Like, okay, if I left, could I create something? I had some people at Grandland that I really liked working with.

And just over the course of 2015, I was like, all right, what if we could we recreate Grandland as our own thing that we own? We don't have to answer it anybody. Could we really triple down on podcasts? Because we were convinced, you know, he has pended in care about podcasts at all. And we were convinced like, we can probably pay for everything through the podcast revenue. And I never ended up taking money from investors

because I kind of felt like we could pay for everything through my podcast and which is what happened. That's a risky proposition, a little bit nerve wracking, but it's a leap, right? Yeah, I remember explaining it to my wife. And she's like, I trust you, a little bit nerve wracking, but it's a leap, right? Yeah, I remember explaining it to my wife. And she's like, I trust you, but I could see this glimmer and I like, should I go on Raya now

or wait for six months? Raya. Well, before you give us all a layman's lesson on podcasting and where it's going and all that yeah talk a little bit about where this Moxie came from to sort of double down triple down on yourself and and and to be Really proactive in it in an entrepreneurial way because You know dudes that are super big sports fans that like right about it and stuff aren't aren't famous for being business titans

to put it kindly. So where does all that come from? I mean, you're very well educated. You come from, I think your dad was a teacher and your mom was a superintendent. So you're pregnant, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, you're raised by adults and you are one. So is that simply it?

Or do you just have an innate business acumen? You guys are probably going to like this answer. The more I got embedded at ESPN, you start looking around and you're like, wait, I can do that. That guy's kind of terrible. This guy's terrible. Yeah. How did this guy get this job where he decides stuff?

This lady's awful. and you just start going, wait a second, I feel like, I feel like I'm smarter than a lot of these people. Yeah, yeah, it turns out nobody knows what they're doing. But if it's not that, usually I find, if you just get in the door in any sort of industry, sort of the mystery of it that you build up in your mind, just kind of melts away, and that's half the battle.

You think everybody is awesome and all knowing and they're just not. Or that they've got this like well of like secret knowledge that you'll never have access to. You know what I mean? Yeah. And most of the people just got, yeah, they got promoted a couple times

and they kind of can't believe they got to where they got. Like when we did 30 for 30 and people loved it the first time. Is that like 80 for Brady? No. Well, that they were that. That sports documentary series. So we created it and we finished it.

And the person who was in charge of ESPN films, who it changed hands a couple times. And by the time we finished 30 for 30, people loved it. And they were like, all right, so 30 for 30 is done. We're going to call documentary as now ESPN films and do it that way. And they didn like, all right, so 30 for 30 is done. We're gonna call documentaries now, ESPN films and do it that way. And they didn't want to do a second volume. And we were like, we just created a brand.

That's like the hardest thing you could possibly do. So they released like four more documentaries, not called 30 for 30s, they're called ESPN films presents. And everybody was like, you see the new 30 for 30. And we're just sending emails to people. And we're like, we did the new 30 for 30. And we're just sending emails to people and we're like, we did it. Like we did the impossible. We created a brand. Just let's do another volume of 30 for 30. We had to convince them for like nine months. And now the thing's still on 14 years later.

That's amazing. That's so cool. It was so stupid. I can't tell. I would go to, I don't get as mad as I did back in the day, but like in the late, I would just lose my mind. I would send these 2,000 word emails. And I thought it was normal because I worked for Kimmel for 18 months. And you guys know Kimmel, Kimmel, Kimmel's a lunatic.

Like he's just, yeah, Kimmel is like, he will whip off a 700 word email in three seconds at just playing a video game and doing nine other things. So I thought, well, Jimmy's like that too, that's normal. And then you realize, like, oh, Jimmy's also a lunatic. So we're both a lunatic.

Yeah, I'm very similar. Yeah, you guys have who you're shown is, by the way, Shonal, Shonal, answer an email before the person has hit send. He's still a pathically Instagram. And I write Shon a couple of times, I've been like, hey, I'm really sorry, like we're on some sort of like email chain

or business thing, and I'll be like, I'm sorry that I'm not answering yet, but I'm really sorry. Like, we're on some sort of like email chain or business thing and I'll be like, I'm sorry that I'm not answering yet, but I need a minute to think about it. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen Sean's already answered. But you know, it's funny you say that it makes sense that, and I know you and Kim Loa friends, I know you work with them for a little bit,

it does totally make sense that you guys both have this kind of, you're very confident and you're both opinionated, but confident in your opinion and a confident about being right. And generally, I bet you're both right most of the time. And they don't pop off on shit they're wrong about. No. Hold on.

Let's be clear. Kimmel is way worse than I am. He's not confident. He is super stubborn. Yes. And we'll just fight to the death until he just breaks you down and you admit he's right, even though you don't think he's right. But he's smart enough not to dig in on things that he's not smart about.

He'll just back off and it'll be like, I never happen. Yeah. He's like, one of the most frustrating people to argue with because it could be like, we could argue with Celtics. He's like, no, Larry Bird only went to MVP's and I'm like, do I have to get like the basketball on Psychopedia? Like, you definitely want great. No, it was two. And then it was like, no, Larry Bird only went to MVP's and I'm like, huh, do I have to get the basketball on Psychopedia? Like, you definitely went great.

No, it was two. And then it was like, now here it is, it's three. It's like, I told you it was three. And we will be right back. Thank you to Mudwater for supporting the show. As you might know, we've been drinking Mudwater. It's a coffee alternative with four functional mushrooms and with only a fraction of caffeine as a cup of coffee.

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Google Nest Cam, Nestor Bell, and Nest aware our trademarks of Google LLC. And now back to the show. And now back to the show. So how did podcasting hit your radar earlier than anybody else, not just listeners, but podcast creators and what was it who whispered in your ear and you got ahead of it and carved away and made it possible for, you know, idiots like us and Dax and I think that I made it possible for your podcast to succeed. Well, it became a medium, you know, it wasn't a medium before you and Mark Mara. Jason, our lawyer has just emailed me and said, take that back.

We'll cut that out later. No, when I started it, it was just because I saw there was this interview link on ESPN.com with the interview with the Celtics GM. And I clicked on it. It was like podcast, it's interview with Danny Engel. I'm like, what the hell is this? So I emailed them and I'm like, can I have one of these? And they were like, okay, and they mailed me this equipment. So I did my first one with an MBA writer, Dave Mark Stein. And the second one was with Corolla. And Corolla came over because I only had one jack in the phone. So he came over and we realized we couldn't do it in the same room.

And he was wandering on my driveway on the phone, doing the podcast with me. So it's like the early days were like crazy rocky. And I was like, these are really fun. I used to have my friends on. And my whole goal was to emulate Mike and the Mad Dog, because I love Mike and the Mad Dog. Sure.

And it was like, these guys, I love Mike and the Mad Dog when they would be talking about the Oscars, not like the Rangers would be like, all right, who do you have for best act of dog? And they would be going, I'll be like, this is amazing. What is this? So I would have my friends on,

and just like people that I thought I would have good chemistry with. And then around 09, I'd had it for about two years. And I remember Seth Meyers text, he emailed me about it. And he was like, yeah, Jacko was my buddy, Jacko's. Yeah, Jacko was feeling it today. It was so funny. And I'm like, you listen, like I had no idea

of people were listening because they didn't tell me the numbers. And I was like, you want to come on? So in 2009, I started just having these celebrities on. And I was like the first podcast for, I would say like 50 celebrities. And all of them thought it was a, it was like a first date with somebody who were like, that was amazing.

And now it's like all these, every celebrity's been on what? 50 podcasts, There's nothing special about it anymore. But it was really fun to grab people. So by like 2009, 2010, people were mentioning it to me on the street. They weren't mentioning, they were mentioning my column, but then some people were like, Hey man, love the podcast. I was like, Oh, and it just felt like it was building. It's also a great way for celebrities to be, to have an extended conversation with an interviewer

or journalist or whatever, and not run the risk of having a headline. You know, Cherry picked out of there for some sensational reviews. Like a cock can know. Yeah, it's all verbatim. And I remember talking to you about it, Jason, because you were like, we were talking about a frustrating the talk show circuit is. Yeah, especially when all verbatim. Well, I remember talking to you about it, Jason, because you were like, we were talking about

a frustrating the talk show circuit is. Yeah, especially when you come out and you do like, well, Kimmel's like, but you do like, you're on a talk show for 10 minutes, right? And you do the pre-interview and you come out and you hit your three things and you have a little back and forth. And I think for the celebrities, the podcast was just

such a more fun format, because it was like, this is what I really am. Yeah, the podcast was just such a more fun format because it was like this is a really bad thing. You're hanging out. For sure. So that was a big win for everybody. Bill, tell me, sorry, just go back again. So your parents were teachers. What did they think?

What did you say to them when you graduated college? You're like, all right, I'm just going to go into the sports thing. Were they like great? Were they expecting you to become a teacher? Did they want you to become a lawyer? No, I think they was like 50, 50 for them, I was gonna be able to have a steady job. I don't kinda think I was thinking of a club

of a master's degree in print journalism. Well, that was a thing. I got a mess. My senior year, my dad was like, hey, what are you gonna do next year? I was like, I don't know. And he's like, you should, you maybe keep going on the sports round thing. Now, you're right. And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, you should maybe keep going

on the sports round thing. You're right. And I just like, the last minute applied to three journalism schools and got into a goal. So he encouraged you. Yeah, it was more like, what are you doing next year and just kind of staring vacantly back with no answer. But then I went to journalism school

and it didn't work out right away. Like I worked at the Boston Herald for three years and did grumbourk and Chinese food orders and covered high school sports. And by 96, I was out. I was bartending. So did you play sports as a kid and then did you not want to go into professional sports

like playing them? I was like high school level best. Yeah. And what's for that? Yeah, what was your sport? Basketball was like high school level best. Yeah. In what's your sport? Basketball. Basketball is my favorite. Yeah. Oh my God.

I still played tennis. I had to retire from basketball ten years ago because we're all old people. Or did you roll, did you roll an ankle too many times? Yeah. I remember speaking to Northby ex-Surgian once in New York and she was just basically like, yeah, like nine out of 10 injuries of dudes over 30 or from basketball. Yeah. And now it's like pickleball on basketball.

Yeah, pickleball. Yeah, I played basketball when I was a kid and I was like, you know, we'd run down to one end of the court and I'd be like, and then they'd get the ball the rebound and I'm like, wait, we gotta go all the way back. We just, we gotta go all the way back to the other side. I don't, I don't understand. And why do I, can't we just play half the court?

I didn't understand it. I was too much for me. So so basketball was your, your main sport. You played baseball too, I imagine, a little bit when you were kid. I played everything until high school. I just played basketball. I love basketball the most though, because we, we had the season tickets.

We were like front and center for the whole Larry Bird era. So I just understood it the most. Did you grew up in Boston, Boston, or did you grew up? Yeah, I grew up in Brookwine. And my parents got divorced, which is why I have a sense of humor. Yeah, exactly. My mom moved to Connecticut,

and eventually I moved to live with my mom for high school. Okay. And I got divorced at a tough time for you too. 13, I think it was. No, I was nine. Oh, you had the red socks. Yeah, don't read Wikipedia. The red socks last to the Yankees in 1978 playoff game,

which was the most dramatic sports loss ever. Bruins lost to the Canadians, and my parents got separated all in the span of six months. So, and end glasses. Wow. It was tough. Wait, was that 78? Did you say 78?

78 and early 70. Yeah, because the leaves, the leaves lost. They were swept by the Canadians before that. But the Canadians, yeah, they just, so you were both on the edge of a few buildings that year. I was, it was tough. Well, he's had, I mean, the leaf thing is, it's so tough. One of the most traumatic professional sports relationships that anyone has. Oh, I, nothing, nothing good happens with the brand in chanahan's going to bring it all back.

Shannys, Shannys are my love. He's the best. He's the best dude. I actually just played golf with Shannys and Mike from Mike and the mad dog a couple of years. Yeah. Will, did you ever get tempted by the Kings just like doing a full hockey divorce and just second wife with the Kings? I could I mean I go to Kings games when I'm here and I'll you know sometimes with the kids and stuff just for fun but I'm just such a huge hockey fan but the Leafs are just my team. They're just it for me and they always have been in this. It's been hilarious that people will divorce human beings but not their teams. Like if Will is like I'm I'm now a Kings fan. I'm like, that's horrible.

You broke up with the Maple Leafs. That's the worst thing I ever heard. You know what, if it's a relationship, it's fine. You know it's funny. So when I was with Shani a couple of weeks ago, he goes, he's like, I think he heard on the podcast or somewhere he goes, so I heard you say, because I've become like in the last 10, 12 years,

a massive soccer fan and a big Liverpool supporter through my friend and I just, I love taught them. Get him. Do you, are you taught them, fan? It lasted three years until my kids started playing sports every Saturday and that's for me. It's tough. Yeah, it was too hard.

But it's, yeah, so I'm up at 4 30 in the morning watching games and stuff. And I'll watch, I'll watch, I'll watch Punez Legal, I'll watch LaLiga, I'll watch anything, Champions League forget it. Get me so hot. So I so watching it. I got it. And I guess I'd sort of said off hand that like it's that watching Liverpool and watching Sockers become almost

is almost taken over hockey. And he looked at me with such disappointment. He's like, is that true? Is that true that you love? And I go, first of all, relax. Yeah. I'll be so sad of that. But I do, it has helped to kind of mitigate my frustration or disappointment by watching that because I'm so invested in the lease. I live and die by. And the, you know, so I've gotten into, and football has been a really great soccer

has become a really great sort of antidote to that. And so I can have some, I can have some highs. Better attention span sport too. It's two hours. There's a half time. It's fantastic. It just flies through and you're done. It's perfect.

And once I got into an understanding who the people were and what the stories were behind it is super interesting and champion and things and so on. But and I'll watch virtually any sport, which makes me like I ended up watching, you know, the ashes, the cricket, I'll watch 2020 cricket T20 like I'll watch and I think like is there anything I won't watch that it's not a sport. When you watch, is there any sport you won't watch? Not a sport. Well, okay.

It's a game. It's not. It's a game. A great is there any so is golf a sport then game game baseball is a game, not a sport. Well, okay, it's a game. It's not. It's a game. Is there any. Is golf a sport then game? Game. Baseball is a game, not a sport. Yeah, I guess golf is a game, but the, but the, but the top guys are athletes. True.

Yeah, but have you seen the bodies on the red socks? No, no, no, no, golf. I'm saying golf. I'm saying golf. Is there a sport you won't watch? Sorry, that was my, my big, long lead. Is there a sport I won't watch? Sorry, that was my big long lead. Is there a sport I won't watch? Yeah, that you don't enjoy watching. I don't get auto racing and like there's this

step one resurgence and I gave it a kick a kick drive and I just get driving around the circle. It's just going in laps. I don't get it. Well, the road courses I get, but circles, you'll come to Formula One with me, you'll get it. Come with me. Listen, you're the 100th person. It's like, no, no, you'll get it. You just, but it's starting to feel like Scientology a little bit. We're like, you don't understand.

You've got to be miscavage. You'll get it when you need it. Just have brunch with them. It's like, I don't know. It doesn't take. I don't know if I love that for a second. That's a terrible. So wait, so this is a perfect opportunity.

I bet. And this is going to be a long question. So wait, so this is a perfect opportunity. I've asked. And this is going to be a long question. Just hang in there because I was like, should I ask it? Should I not ask it? I'm going to ask it. How do you go make a sandwich? Yeah, I'm going to pee. I've heard you're a long question shot.

I'm excited. They're not. Okay, so it's to the three of you guys. So and this is a perfect opportunity to ask this and I wasn't going to ask it. But here we go. It's already too long. No, no, hang on. All the qualifiers. No, so I...

Just a big qualifier guy with this question. So what is the psychology behind loving sports so much? Okay, so wait. So like, you know, in movies, theater, TV, whatever it is, you're watching a story, you're emotionally invested, you're watching the beginning, middle, and end of something. In sports, I get it. There is a beginning and end because who's going to win and then they win.

Okay, sure. But what is this psychology about loving it? So like, what are you rooting for other than a team that you don't have in your personal connection to? Yeah, you go first. I'll go first. Yeah, for me, it's just simply, and it's heightened by the Olympics because it's only every four

years. It's the televised live moment of somebody putting everything they've got on the line and it's a binary result of success or failure. And I get to see this person reach for excellence and let's see what the best they can do is going to yield. And that's a really exciting thing to me. And it's see what the best they can do is gonna yield. And that's a really exciting thing to me. And it's not, and it's unwritten. Yeah.

I get that. I would say for me, it's not dissimilar. And as I explained my sort of my appreciation of soccer was came from understanding the stories and the people behind it. What's like, you told me that well. So once I can get into like like, this guy came over here, and for me, it's not necessarily binary

because there is victory sometimes in people in failure when they don't actually get it, but they try really hard, I like that part. Yeah, but the story is like, you told me that to a long time ago, you're like, you should just try to watch the stories of the people. So I'm watching, I'm like,

well, this is a date line episode. Like, I could just watch, you know, I could learn about these people without watching them kick a ball around for two hours. Sure. You know what I'm saying? So. But then there is a moment,

there is an actual venue for them to go and try to do that. You see the story behind it. So like for instance, if you watch like one of these great soccer documentaries, and you see the importance of the team to the town and to the fans you see. And then you see these players and these guys

in their town and what it means. And then the players who come in and they're trying to do it and they're trying to do it not just to win, but they understand the cultural impact that they have. They feel it, they know it. And watching them go through that is super compelling to me. Yeah, I kind of also, but on the other side, I went to a daughter's game with Jason a couple years ago. And we're sitting there and I was like. Yeah, I get it. And also, but on the other side, I went to a Daughter's game with Jason a couple years ago, and we're

sitting there. And I was like, I kind of get it. I get like the atmosphere. It's like watching this old house on a Sunday. You're like, Oh, this is very relaxed. This is so well. You know what I mean? I get almost there. They'll get them back on track. But if Sean in the same way that like for me, I can't go, I can't get into musicals. Right. And I there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that it is sort of adjacent to what I do as a profession. And yet I still can't, it's just not for me. It doesn't speak to me.

And for whatever reason sports does in that way. And Bill, you probably have a much more insight. I just think it's almost like a DNA thing. It's got to hit you before like age six. And I see it with a couple of my friends kids. I have like my friend Nathan's kid, just like I could tell when he was six. I was like, oh, he's gonna be one of those guys. He's going to be really. And now he is. He's like 14 and

he's one of those guys. Yeah. Like like I was obviously I'm from Chicago when the Cubs won finally 45, six years ago. I remember when that was. I was crying because I was like, oh my God. They haven't won in so much to the city. 200 years. I'm from Chicago. Like that was incredible. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. But but and and I'm a huge football fan. I just need a reason to watch like I need to bet or something. When I when I was growing up in Boston the 70s is but the cold weather city is you know it's pretty miserable for like four or five months. It has this too. I don't know. Will knows. But you know the sports teams take this outside as importance of just like the kind of,

whatever the teams are doing, kind of sets the mood of the city. And when Bird showed up for the Celtics in 1979, and we realized pretty quickly, this is one of the most special athletes in any sport and we get to go on this ride with him for the next 10, 12 years. That's when it goes to all their level.

Like Cleveland had that with LeBron and the Lakers had that with Kobe and, you know, you just kind of hit the lottery when it happens and that's going to make everyone care more. Bill, you know, I remember distinctly thinking this at the time and Sean, again, this kind of goes to the way it makes you feel. I remember when Tiger starting in sort of 99 through 2008, really up to the 2008 US Open, in that time, he did something that was so spectacular. And I remember thinking, there are people who didn't like him,

I remember thinking, I hope we all appreciate how incredible it is what this guy is doing. It was so, and that we're alive during it. And we're alive, and we get to watch it in real time. Yeah, that is cool. That is cool. I thought you were about Jason with those arcs. Yeah, I agree. Oh my God. I'm a member of this species. And then we get to with the slow blink with the slow blink that McConaughey pointed out. You know, McConaughey pointed out that Jason's got the best slow blink. He's a slow blink call. To be honest. I'm not sure

what that compliment was, but I took it. I loved it. I have thought about it every moment. I looked at myself in the mirror yesterday. I was like, I tried to do a slow blink and I realized, wait, I can't see what I'm doing. So I'm not sure what he's talking about. That's good. That's good. Hey, Bill, I don't even mean to back you into anything controversial, so feel free to pull the rip cord if it is. But online sports betting that is now sort of really all over the place on television and online and whatnot. How do you feel about, are you worried about your average sports viewer, especially because

like when you start talking about the six year old, you know, like pretty soon, he's gonna have a phone and he's gonna have like, a, you know, an allowance every week. And he's gonna be able to make little bets prompted by the on air announcers saying, hey, listen, if you're thinking this might be a field goal versus a touchdown, you can bet right now.

Like people are gonna get hurt and I'm wondering how you feel about that being in the space right now. Well, the way the apps are set up, it's impossible for any non-adult to just start a gambling account. Like my son is a sophomore in high school. He can't gamble because he's not a lad. So they have a lot of checks and balances with that. I just think this is where it's been going. Yeah. Really for the last 20 years.

Like I remember when I my first couple of years at ESPN.com gambling was like a big part of the way my friends and I talked about sports and they wouldn't even let me write a gambling column the first year in 2001 with the spreads. But the honor and answers sort of encouraging that. and one with the spreads. But the honor and answers sort of encouraging that. Do you feel like that's on the same side of the line? Or not? I don't know if they're encouraging it as much as it's part of the dialogue of sports now to put in the-

Well, but they're promoting it. And I think the network is a participant in that action. I could be wrong with that. Well, ESPN just did a deal. ESPN bet they're calling it. I mean, yeah. I think they all kind of see where it's going. They're doing that with pin. Yeah, they, they, but, but Bill, you, again, correct me if I'm wrong. You know, the NFL has, and all sports, but certainly the NFL always posted the odds and the newspaper for as long as it was always about that.

Right. Oh, they want it. It's just more over than it used to be. Right. Well, I mean, did the odds and the newspaper for as long as it was always about that, right? They won't. It's just more overt than it used to be. But, I mean, the, like teams will get fined if they didn't report injuries. Why are they getting fined? Because, right. And it affected the spreads. Then how does it, can you reconcile it with the, with the, with the position that, that baseball took against Pete Rose gambling on, on baseball?

And now they're actually a partner of gambling with baseball. No, but, you can't, because the Pete Rose thing, he was betting on his own team. Right. And he was managing that team. So he could affect the outcome. Yeah, and they've been cracking down on, um, they don't want the players to gamble on anything, right? And there's been especially in football. There's been a few guys that got nailed.

But if you go back to the history of the sports, like there's been gambling scandals in every air. But there was a rough basketball ball that just did it, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's been a college basketball in the 50s. There was that huge scandal right at point shaving way back when it was almost killed college basketball. Yeah. The what's weird is there's so much attention on it now. It would be really hard to fix anything. Anytime something's out of whack, everybody, all the casinos, everybody got to know. So they get caught immediately.

So yeah, it's part of the dialogue. I just think it's a generational thing. I think for like our kids' generation, they're just more used to hearing the announcers talk about it and the dialogue of these guys were favored by nine. Al Michaels used to be on Sunday night NBC. Great. And he would always be, he would always be discreetly kind of mentioning the line without mentioning

it. Yeah, yeah. He was a big field goal for some people out there. Yeah, exactly. Someone missed an extra point inside the last two minutes. They go, yeah. So now it's just kind of out in the open. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm good just kind of out in the open. Yeah.

So I'm good with it. We'll be right back. Smartly supported by Soylent, funny name, but serious nutrition, we could come up with lots of jokes on the name, right? But the internet has been there, done that. So we will just focus on how incredible the product is and the science behind it, you it. I'm into science.

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I'm acknowledged. I go up and down. I know you're trying to jinx me right now, but uh-uh. But yeah, we, I have a long history. I started gambling in 1990 because the Patriots went one in 15. And it were only two games on and we were in college and you know, the Patriots were terrible. And it was like this is the worst football season I've ever had.

And you made a million. And we had a buddy on it. Yeah, buddy on my house, I was like, I have a book here. Like what? And we start like betting on football. And all of a sudden I had all these favorite teams. It wasn't just the Patriots. Yeah.

So yeah, it's been a long journey. I've written about it a lot. And I've had a lot of fun with it. But now there's like so much analytics and analysis that go with it. Like Sal and I, Jimmy's cousin, Sal, we do a Sunday night podcast on my pod. And we did this over under with win totals last year. And we did great. Like I went like on the win totals, whether a team was going to go over under, I went 24, 7 and 1. It was the best I've ever done. And I was more excited about that than anything.

Over or under a certain number of wins for the year. Yeah, so they'll say like the giants are seven and a half and you're thinking, you're over under. And we just like, and we were like so proud of ourselves that we did well, but there's been other years where we're like, oh my God, we're getting annihilated. Does God hate us? Does that translate to fantasy sports prowess?

Are you really good at that? I was wanting to ask you if you're into fantasy sports. Oh, I was like, I was in the first wave. I was in basketball leagues in the 80s, baseball leagues in 1982. Football since 1990. What's the name of the, wasn't there a baseball group early on in ESPN?

What was it? Yeah, I wasn't in that, but yeah, it started in the early 80s. There's a bunch of people that have tried to claim they started the first fantasy league and it's, no, but this was like, these guys are like the best supposedly. I forget what it was called, but I wanted to. Well, I'm in the Kimmel League where we vote everybody out and Sal has the hammer this year. And I think he's going gonna vote me out for comedy's sake. Why?

Because the trash talks not good enough? Well, we show up and there's 11 owners and only 10 stay and at the beginning of the draft, the guy won the draft the year before votes out one of the 10, one of the other 10. Really? And you just have to get up and get the F out. We had John Ham was in it and he showed up late because he was filming Mad Men. And we waited, waited, waited,

he showed up like a half hour late, comes in, sorry, sorry, it gets a beer, sits down, and then he got voted out and he just struck drank the beer. That's it. Oh my God. I'm the commissioner of my baseball league. It's the worst league in the world

because I don't think that there's not one trash talk at all through the entire season. Yeah, the 90s were so much more fun. Yeah, the 90s people get mad. The draft was like really vicious and then every person nicer. I have a question about this stuff. So what about, you want to focus on the fantasy part of it?

Go ahead. Yeah, exactly. No, why? And I think Jason, well, I think I may have asked this on another episode of our podcast, so we can cut it if so. But if all the smartness available, wherever you get podcasts, mm-hmm, yes, that's smart enough. But you get it early on Wondry without asking.

If you know, I read about all of these crazy, unbelievably massive amounts of money thrown around to all these players for all these teams, right? Yeah. Just contracts like these guys. So, if these teams and owners and all these people have literally billions of dollars, it seems like why wouldn't they just go by every single top player and have that one team if they have all this money.

Bill, you'll be more, you'll be recognized. No, I mean, but there's a, there's an actual, the dadger's kind of tried that. It's working. Well, because they're a, there are rules. There are rules as to how much you, you can actually spend in most roles. Well, there's rules over, over a certain number, you'd think of to start paying a punitive tax on that. But what, how would you explain what's going on with the Yankees and the Red Sox this year

with all their payroll? Aren't they the last two in the American league east? The Yankees thing is great. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's hard. The Red Sox cozyed up next to them. The Red Sox aren't winning the title, but what's happened to the Yankees is kind of like my world series of share. It's their fans are so upset. They have Georgetown runners loser Sun Howe runs the team and it's like the classic, like the son who had the only reason he had is the charge of anything. It's just because he was related to his dad, which is always the best and funniest area of sports.

By the way, it's funny thing in any arena, I know this guy. I love the I really on his son running his bed defense. But like think of Hollywood ran this were like Bob Aggers retiring. His son is now the president of Disney. Like it would never happen. And sports, they just hand the teams off. I love kids who are born on third and square on a wild pitch. I love that storyline. It's so great. I'm like, they just have zero talent and yet they're just because their dad had a ton of dough. Bill, you know, you know, well, we were talking about sport. I want to get back to Sean's question, Bill. And, and, and hear what you think about this,

about it. Why can't the owners just go, we were talking about the Red Sox and Yankees. And they, and they do try to do that. And they've had, and you, you're jumping with Glee and how much the Yankees have spent have spent and to no success. Really, what's happening again to bring, I don't want to bring everything back to soccer, but if you look what's happening in the last year in soccer, the Saudis, in fact, the Saudi of sovereign wealth fund, which took control of the top four final clubs, has now provided enough funds for them to go and poach from all the major European leagues, all these top stars and pay them the salaries, Sean.

Name our design to $300 million. I know, I'm going to win them all. Plus, they paid a release clause of 80 million euros to PSG. They apparently offered in Bapet 750 million euros to play for one year. Yeah, I remember. Ronaldo's getting 400 a year. I mean, this is, they're doing that exact thing that you're talking about.

Bill, what do you think that something like that does to the balance of world sport? Well, soccer, it's just basically a free market and they're all maniacs. I think the NBA had a little bit of this issue where they had this luxury tax and it was punitive, but then you had a team like the Warriors that were saying, we'll screw it. You know, we're in San Francisco, we make a shitload of money, we want to win the title

over here and they had like a three, with the tax, they paid like 350 million for last year's team. So in the new collective bargaining agreement, they changed it so that, all right, if you go over this number, not only is there a tax, but now you're gonna have your issues with your draft picks, issues with how you feel at your roster, you're not gonna be able to do trades as easily. Oh, really?

And they really made it harder. And now, but what's funny is, there's always some new owner, it's always a rich guy, they come in, like obviously rich guy, they own the team new owner. It's always a rich guy. They come in like obviously rich guy. They own the team, but like some newer way of rich guys. So the guy about Phoenix, this guy Matt Ishbeer, who I actually kind of like, he's a fun character. Yeah, I kind of like him too.

But he came in and he's just like, they all want a zag, right? They're like, everybody's going this way. I'm gonna zag. And he's like, we don't care about draft picks. We're gonna pay for Kevin Durant. We, they traded for Bradley Beale. We're gonna pay for Kevin Durant. They traded for Bradley Beale. We're gonna have this crazy payroll. And like, everybody else is afraid of luxury techs.

I'm not afraid. And those are always my favorite owners. Like Brooklyn got bought by this Russian guy, Prokerov, and the early 2010s. And he's like, I'm gonna spend and just made all these crazy moves. And then two years later, he's like, eh, I don't want to do this anymore. And then just stop spending money and the Celtics had all their draft picks.

So the whims of these guys that they, you know, they see these teams as like these toys and these things to play with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But meanwhile, all these, you know, hundreds of thousands of fans are attached to the team. Yeah. And these guys can just run rough shot, which is what's happened with the Yankees now. It's owned by the owner, the dead owner's son, and he just won't fire anybody and they're in chaos.

Well, it occurs to me that there's, that you can almost draw a parallel between that and maybe any business, but certainly our business that, that you have these big sort of rich guys who either rich themselves or control these big corporations, they're driven by whatever stock price, et cetera. And there's no actual reverence for the thing itself, right? So they're culturally, they don't really care about what impact. So they come and they go, I'm gonna buy this team. Well, hey, look, it's really bad for basketball

or it's really bad for soccer. And they're like, I don't give a shit. I'm gonna be dead in 15 years. I just wanna win a couple of championship and I'm gonna give a shit. And that's happening in entertainment 15 years. I just wanna win a couple of championship and I don't give a shit. And that's happening in entertainment. These guys came in, these people came in, they run it, and they're like potentially destroying it.

And they're like, I don't give a shit. I just wanna strip it down and sell the pieces off. And I don't give a fuck of it, you know, fucks culturally with this, you know, this thing. Is this why Dr. Pimple Poppers on the lead cover of Max right now? Is that a succession or a curvent? Yeah, that's exactly why.

Hey, Bill, do you think that the fan base to your point about how all these hundreds of thousand people are associated and attached to each team in the fan base? Yeah. Does the fan base really have any leverage? Like if an owner is just in a tailspin, can they strike effectively and say more or not with the Washington football fans. They had this owner who was Daniel Snyder who was like the worst owner. He was like the championship belt holder every year.

And he sucked the life out of the franchise and the city to the point that, you know, they would have a home game and they'd have more fans of the other team and everybody was like, I'm out until this guy's gone. And it really had no impact on him. It's the TV rights that really have the left. And financially, they still sold for how many billion. Right. Well, what happened was the sponsors started fleeing and it became, and then he had a couple

other things. But that's because of his behavior personally. And his behavior wasn't great. And his behavior wasn't great. But that's the thing. These guys, like the Phoenix Sunzoner had this whole toxic environment and they made himself. And then he sells, and he sells for like a record price, you know.

So we're stirling. We're stirling made a bunch of people. Stirling is the same thing, right? Right, Stirling's the worst guy probably has ever owned a team. And you know, he cashed out and made more money than anybody else. By the way, my feeling on that, I've thought about it since that sale and that everything that went down. And then his family was trying to block him from selling it to Steve Balmer back in the

day. And then they were claiming that he was sort of unfit to make the deal sterling himself and all this stuff. And I think it was all by design to drive the price up. Now I'm, I'm acidic, but I do think that that was all by design because the more that they, the family was fighting and they were saying, the price just kept going up just to grab it. Oh, no question.

I have had clippers season tickets for 20 years because I got him to go see the other teams. And so, but I got to know a lot of the people in my section and Sterling would show up and he'd be dressed in all black and he'd sit court side. And it was he was like the fucking grim reaper. And he would go and you know, this team had such a malaise

and then you have the lakers on the other side that are like one of the jewels of the league. And it was like a fascinating sociology experiment to watch this fan base. Who basically their hope was either he's gonna sell or they're gonna stumble into some draft pick that will get them LeBron. But if neither of those things happen,

I'm here to see the other teams, and that was kind of the vibe. So Bill, not to embarrass you, but you've done very, very well financially with all of your ass. So of your ass. Well, not like you. But you're a junior.

And we're trying. But you're crushing it. My question is, as you mentioned, courtside seats, what's the thing that you could never afford that once you started really doing well, you treated yourself to, it doesn't have to be sports based. I can guess one thing, because you're living in Wayne Manor. It looks like. Yeah, it looks like an IWane Manor.

But because you see them, you've really kept very close contact with your sort of simpler self, you know, and I don't mean that it's a pejorative, but you're a very normal guy, which is great. So, thanks Jason. So, how are you, does it, is it comfortable to say, well, you know, you're not, you're a very, you're a mogul, but you don't seem like one. You're in a t-shirt and you're just talking with the us idiots.

And so how are you able to match all of your dreams? All of the, yeah, all your dreams with trying to stay grounded. I've never, well, just on the courtside seats thing. Yeah. They're actually like, it's like a pretty bad seat. Have you ever put their expensive? Like if you're in a basketball game, I'm always like amazed people spend that amount of money.

I think it's really just to be kind of seen on the court. Right. But you're too close. Like the seats I have for the corporate games were like four or five rows up. Same for my dad, Celtic tickets that he's had for like 52 years. There's perspective and you can actually watch it. The courts I think, like sitting front row in a movie theater. I always say that about hockey games, people who are like, I'm going to write down in

the glass. I'm like, great, you got the worst seats in the house. You can't see shit. You want to be hockey, you want to be 10, 15 rows up the space between the red lines. Or right between, right behind the goalie is cool because we had those king seats for a couple years. Oh, that's cool too. Yeah. That's where you're like, how is every goalie not just completely traumatized in a mental hospital? When you see what happens to them, narrow lives, it's just like they're

getting just things fired at them. There's all this commotion in front of them. They're falling, they're jumping up, they're falling, and you're like, how has any of these guys? They are. Health it. Yeah. That's a straight jacket. Bill, what do you do when you're not, how is any of these guys? They are. Health it. Yeah. That's a straight jacket. Bill, what do you do when you're not watching sports? What's your thing? This is sort of a Jason Bateman question. What's the thing?

What's your, what's your, what's your, your guilty pleasure? Yeah, your guilty pleasure that you watch or you do or you read or something that's outside of the realm of what you do professionally? Well, oh, outside because it's a lot of sports movies and TV and I host this rewatchables podcast where We do a podcast about a movie every week that people really like and it's fun to like try to figure out Is that rewatchables worthy or not and then if it is I'll watch it twice But what is there something else that you do that's outside of that or no? You mean just like my personal stuff. Yeah, your personal stuff. I have yeah, I have two kids

A lot of kids sports both of my kids are athletes. What do they play? My son is football on the cross. My daughter is playing soccer action in college right now. So, so I had a lot of, there's a lot of sports parent stuff that kind of took over and they, you know, still playing tennis and still a lot of like stuff with the friends. You know, you find your little friend group

as you get older and you do the dinners and then somebody gets mad at somebody and you talk about it the next day. It's great. Yeah. Well, we can't believe we had you long ago. We can talk to you forever. Yeah.

You're the man. Yeah. Thank you for doing this again. Thank you guys. I can't wait for you guys not to run this. Yeah, we promised to air this one. Promise. And go socks until the, until the world's I can't wait for you guys not to run this. Yeah, we promised to air this one. Promise.

And go socks until the, until the World Series. And we'll let the Dodgers play. I agree. Go socks. We won't be in the World Series. Don't worry. I'll give you the red socks. Celtics. You can have. Yeah. And by the way, guys, it's, it was cool to be on the test show and then watch how the podcast bossen.

I remember telling Bateman, I was like, do you want to guess what I'm doing? So it's modified, I was like, no, I think we're gonna hold on to this. We kind of like just kind of being in control of it. And it turned out to be very smart. Well, we'll see. But we're certainly having a lot of fun.

We're in the bed on our bed on ourselves. I know it's true. Thank you for making the bed that we're enjoying, resting and. Yeah. I think you're gonna be a good ass. Thank you for making the bed that we're enjoying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you to you to Paul. Thanks, Bill. See you, man. Bye, buddy. Well, that is a, that's a good man for coming back. Yeah. I was so long ago. I didn't remember anything we talked about. So it was, it was three, it was well over three years ago that we first had him on it was one of our first shows and we Asked him about the podcast business because we know if you can imagine that we've been

First, right? Yes, actually, first, first, first, first, first But and then we got very topical at the time and so yeah, just didn't work and I'm Jason's Kudos to you for bringing him back and see such a I love that interesting guy. I could talk to Forever about everything. I really admire there's been able to just crush it in multiple areas and. I know, how about we, you just stay for granted?

A topic up and he fucking knows about it. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to get into an argument with him. He'll kill you in fact. So who's thinking? How's the by-work coming? Yeah, Sean, how is the by-work coming? Well, I can't really, you're glates.

I know you've been working on it for probably 40 minutes. You're wearing, oh, you're not wearing your regular glasses, you're wearing your, bye. Bye. Oh, balls. With the astros from Arnett. Bye. Until your day.

A smart. Smartness is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjurf, Bennett Barbaco and Michael Granterry. Smart, less. Our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can listen to it right now, early on Amazon music, or early and add free by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. Smilest is full of celebrity guests and laughs, but if you want something more airy, try the new podcast Go Story about my investigation into a murder suicide in my own family. Go SoundReal, at least that's what I've always believed. Sure, odd things happen in my childhood bedroom, but ultimately I shrubged it all off. That is, until a couple of years ago, when I discovered that every subsequent occupant of that house is convinced they've experienced something inexplicable too, including the

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