SmartLess - "Billie Eilish & Finneas O'Connell"

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

Billie Eilish and Finneas O’Connell are our esteemed first-time-ever Duo Guests in Podland, USA. Welcome to SmartLess, friends. Please keep all arms and limbs safely inside the vehicle and be sure to wear these neon protective goggles, conveniently referred to as Ocean Eyes.Please support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, podcast listener. This is Smart List. I am Jason. I have a friend named Will and a friend named Sean. We, uh, we ask people questions, uh, if that's what you're looking for, you're in the right spot. I mean, like the energy is just, it's really love. The pluribus, honestly, I, I, that, you do with that, you know, here's your attitude. You're like, if you wanted to win and then if you, I just don't feel sincere. If I like, come on with a bunch of energy. Hey, listener, welcome to smart. Like we're not selling that. That's great. What you just did. That is great. Try more and sincere more often. I think people appreciate the non bullshit on this podcast.

People appreciate you when you're depressed. Is that what you're saying? It's free. Just deal with my mood today. It's an all new smart list. Let's go. Oh, look at haircut. Jesus. What wills? I think it's just slicked back. What's up haircut? I did not get my haircut. Congratulations. It'll grow back. Don't worry. I did not get my haircut. I just combed it. Huh. Hey, let me ask you something. When you guys go, cause I know you guys go for walks like I do, just to get some fresh air and walk during this crisis, this virus we're doing. But whenever I pass somebody on the sidewalk, I passed them and my conversation in my head is, okay, did I inhale like their

air? Even though there's masks behind it, did they inhale my air? I had that in the first, the first month of COVID when I'd walk by, I would, I would quietly either hold my breath or, or, or, or quietly just slowly exhale. Yeah. I still do it. Okay. Well, hang on. I got to admit something. And this is a true story when I pass strangers, four years have been holding my breath. Really? Yeah. Even without a mask. That's germy like me. You, you're not germy like me. Well, I'm quietly, I'm a, I'm a closet. Closet. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Are you really? Are you a handshaker normally? Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, but I just, I'm, I don't know, like, and then I lived in New York, I lived in New York for over 20 years, full time and use the subway was my main mode of transport, but I would do a lot of like, you know, So if you, when like speaking of the subway, when you walk by and you walk into like basically like a urine cloud, do you feel like you're getting some sort of a disease just because, well, I've smelt it. So therefore I have inhaled urine. I think about that all the time. Aerosol. All the time.

And now I'm going to have a bladder infection. Is that what you think, Will? I used to think like if you peed in a public urinal that he could travel through your stream up into your penis from the previous. Well, that part is true. That's part is true. Oh, that part is true. That part is true. So then I do have, that's where I got my STDs. Yeah. Boy, I did not know this about you, Will. But here's what you need, Sean, you know what it's like when you go up for dinner with Jason. So this is how it goes for just for our listener. When you go for dinner with Jason, you go into the restaurant, right? And so what he does is he takes the menu and he goes, okay,

great. And he can't do anything. He says, great, let's just get an order in because what he has to do is get the order in. Then he pushes back from the table. He walks gingerly to the men's room and he washes his hands like he's going into surgery. And then he comes out with his hands in the air. No, they're down around the waist because I don't want to embarrass myself. They're like a surgeon and he comes in and then if, and I got to kick the chair. Yeah. She can't, if somebody comes late to the table and he's already been through that process, they're not getting a handshake, right, Jay? Before I start over, you got to do the whole, but I definitely wash my hands after I have,

I've touched the menu. I've shook hands at the table, whatever that nonsense is, but then it's now it's eat time. So I got to go. We're going to boil the hands. I come back. Interesting point. Interesting that, wow, the sitting down and shaking hands at the table and greeting other human beings to him is the nonsense at the table. To him, that's the nonsense. I'm there to eat. All right. Let's get on with it. Um, gang. Yeah. We don't get a lot of duos, but today we got a duo. No. Yep. They are responsible for some of the most complicated and original music going today. They are also extremely successful. Usually when people do complicated stuff, it's not that successful. They know how to

do both. Their work has brought them. Hold on. I go to a different part of my notes here. It's Simon and Garfunkel. It's brought them five Grammy Awards, two American Music Awards, two Guinness World Records, three MTV Video Music Awards, and the youngest to win all the four main Grammy categories, Best New Artist, Record of the Year, Song of the Year, Album of the Year in the same year. Recently. Yeah, man. And I know it is. I think I know it is. You don't have to take your tone up. Well, I'm all fired up about this. They also happen to really love each other because their brother and sister, everybody, it's Billie Eilish O'Connell and Finneas Baird O'Connell. What? There they are. Hi, boys. No way. Hi, guys. Hi. This

is, I mean, I might have to, guys, I might have to get the kids in here. They're going to go. Guess what? Well, look at me. Panning left. There's my kid. Oh my God. Yeah. Maple wanted to say hello. Now, Billie, you've worked with Maple before. You guys did a little guest spot on our friend, the talk show host, Mr. Jimmy Kimmel. You interviewed, she did the Lord's Prayer in Spanish. You remember this? Oh. Oh my God. Hi, Maple. All right. That's the end of that part. We got to get to business, mates. All right, you guys. Hi. Thank you very much for being on our podcast. Look at you both there. First of all, it's amazing to meet both of you. I am a huge fan. I remember, oh my God, and I'm freaking out

because I'm nervous. Ocean, ocean. Ocean eyes. Ocean eyes. My God son played it for me on Spotify and I freaked out. I was like, but I have to say, you know, there's so, there's a lot of music out there, a lot of pop music and a lot of it is like fantastic. A lot of it isn't. But when I first heard your music, I was completely blown away. I mean, you and your brother, not since the carpenters, by the way, but I thought that what a way to pivot and not do what everyone else is doing. I mean, it was just so different and so powerful and you want to, do you guys want to hear us talk? Yeah, I was just going to say, listener, we swear they're here.

That is such a fair question, but I have a question. I have a question. It was the opposite of the same stuff that's been coming out. So what made you guys like trust yourselves as artists that believe that there's an audience that would want something other than those kind of manufactured pop songs that they so crave, you know what I mean? Because it's so different. First of all, jokes aside, this is a very, very sweet question. So thank you very much. Yeah. I'm going to let you go.

No, no, you keep going. You want me to take it? Yeah, you keep going. Well, to answer a really sort of like kind question, I think that the main thing is we just wanted to make music together and that was kind of our only big idea. So anything beyond that in terms of like what people it has reached or things that, you know, like compliments people have imbued it with, like, you know, to us, the success was just sitting down to write a song and actually writing one and then trying to record it and that

going pretty well. So, you know, I think we've, we've kept our sort of like sites pretty low from the beginning in terms of like, let's just do something and try to make it not suck. Yeah, exactly. That's, Jason can relate to that. He's kept the bar low for so long. That's the key. You never pull a muscle if the bar is nice and low. And as I also say, also never build your high horse too close to the ground. You know what I mean? Because you're going to fall off at some point. If you could, you know, we're

in 2021 now, the last what three, four years have been, your head has spun around a few times and probably felt like it was going to come off. Right? It's just, you guys have been in writing this incredible wave and we asked this. I remember we had Paul McCartney on the show. We're kind of asking him the same thing, which is like, do you have those moments where you go, where you check in and you kind of look at each other and go, holy shit. Yeah. Does that ever happen or no?

It happens all the time, all the time, all the time. I mean, you know, in the bath a lot, you know what I'm saying? Separately. Or when I wake up. Yeah. When I wake up. Yeah. We don't take baths together.

No, God no. But every day, I mean, multiple times a day when I'm doing random stuff, when I'm, when I'm not, you know, it's very weird to think about. That's an interesting thing to me because, you know, in order to handle success, I would imagine you need to somehow put yourself in a place where you are not entitled or deserving of it, but that it's appropriate so that you don't have a panic attack when you're out in front of thousands and thousands of people. Yes. Yet it sounds like you're maintaining a keen sense of normalcy. So then how can those two

things coexist? Like the normal person would get out on stage and go, oh my God, this is, I'm having a panic attack. You know, like how do you compartmentalize? How do you switch between the two? I mean, it's really weird because, you know, I have a job that basically a lot of it is just people complimenting me up my ass. You know what I mean? Where, you know. I know how it is. I know. Oh, whatever. No, but what I mean is that I have a job and a career that is like constantly, you know,

people saying I'm great or whatever. And it's really hard to, to not let that make you go, wow, I really am great. And then be horrible forever and just be completely self-righteous and, you know, whatever, because constantly it's just people putting you on this pedestal that no person should be on really. But then, you know, there's the other side of completely the opposite of that of people just, you know, hating your guts. But it's weird. What really humbles both of you guys? Like what are you both terrible at that keeps you, you remember the fact that you're not a superhero, you're just human and you suck at X, Y and Z. What's X, Y and Z?

Can you, are you guys terrible at cooking? Like not boil water? We can cook. I'm terrible at that. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Boiling water. Yeah. It's tough.

I can't. It's tough to admit. Yeah. You can't fucking boil water. You know what, you know what's a better question? What do you suck at? What do you wish you were better at? Oh, boy, that's gonna sneak it right by them there, Will. I mean, we were both homeschooled so that we don't know any math.

Yeah, that's for sure. Oh, wow. We don't know any academics at all. I don't understand anything about the word geometry. They couldn't tell you. Like, I don't even know what it means. Sorry. You're fine. You're not gonna need it.

Look at baby. That's what I'm saying, though. I don't need it. What am I gonna do with that? What am I gonna do with pie? You know, tell them. Jason, tell them you're school. Yeah, I didn't graduate.

Well, and Jason, because I acted as a high, like I spent a fair amount of time on Glee as a young person and I was like, I feel like my not going to school equaled everyone else going to school and not learning anything. That was the feeling I got. That's what I felt, too. All of my friends went to school and none of us knew anything. It wasn't like I knew less. You know what?

I gotta say, and this is gonna be controversial. I have the least amount of, because I did not graduate from college. I dropped out and everybody in my family has multiple degrees and I'm way smarter than all of them. See? They're gonna listen to this and be really put out. My dad went to Harvard and I'm way smarter than my dad. I'm always fascinated by musicians like yourself who either did or didn't study music.

Did you actually study music theory or anything like that? We actually did, but it was because we grew up in a choir and part of being in the choir was just doing music theory once a week, but it was fun. It wasn't like the way that school is horrible for people. No, but there were tests and stuff. Yeah, it was real. We did learn to read music, but that's not necessarily... You don't need to do that to make music at all.

Again, Paul McCartney was on. I asked him, I was like, what about this? And did you know that your time signature changes? And he's like, I don't know about any of that. And I was like, oh. And he's written symphonies, which is crazy. But it's more impressive. You guys know what you hear the music.

You know what you like. You know what you're trying to say musically. And the fact that you can do it without having to sort of intellectualize it, it's just raw talent. You're kind of relying on that. I mean, you laugh at it. I know, but it's true. I think so.

What do I know? Well, thanks, guys. I'm just the smartest person in my family. I want to go back to what Jason was kind of touching on, which is where in the world do people like you get the confidence at such a young age when other people your age are like, it's kind of what Jason was talking about a little bit, which is, you know, like, what do you attribute your ability to perform in front of an audience? I could not tell you.

I don't know. I kind of have a feeling of, I think it just depends what type of person you are. But I also kind of feel like some people change and be, I don't know. I don't really understand. I have a question for you. What? Are there times where you suddenly are either in the middle of a show or you walk on stage? You know what?

And sometimes we're like, I don't belong up here. That would be horrifying. That's a great question. Well, the only time it happened was, you know, I think at the end of 2019. So after I'd had this enormous year where, you know, I was becoming this, you know, name, which was so random and weird. I, you know, had like a month off of doing shows. It was like Thanksgiving.

It was about to be the holidays. And I had this one radio show and I went on stage and the entire show, I felt like I was pretending to be Billie Eilish. Swear to God. Like I had this whole feeling in my body that I was like, why am I doing, and it sounds crazy, why am I doing a Billie Eilish show for her? Like I'm not. I felt like a parody of myself and it was very trippy, took me many weeks to get out

of that weird headspace, but I don't, I don't ever feel like I don't belong. You know, being on stage really is the one thing in my entire life that I've actually felt like I belonged in, you know, I had a lot of hobbies growing up and I still do. But I realized this recently that I actually never got to a place in any sport I did or any sort of hobby or whatever or class or anything, even things I loved, I never actually felt like I belonged there, but not in like, oh, I'm an outcast way. It just, there was something off and just being on stage is the first time I felt. You can feel it in the music that you guys write.

It feels very authentic. It feels like you guys are talking about what you're feeling, what you're going through. The music, it doesn't feel like you guys are pressing into some area that you are incapable of doing. It just sounds very personal, both musically and lyrically, and it's, and yet every single song is different. I think we talked about this a long time ago, they got Jimmy's show. There aren't two songs that sound the same.

That's so sweet of you. That's hard to do. I would imagine. Yeah, that's what I was saying at the beginning when everybody, everybody on this Zoomer was making fun of me. I was trying to get the point across that it is, it's such a departure from what was mainstream or what still is mainstream, that even if you liked it or you hate it or whatever, you couldn't help but take notice of it because it was so different and in your face and artistic

and thoughtful. Yeah, not easy. Yeah. I love that. I remember the first time I heard bad guy and I was like, what is this? There was such a sort of a danger to it, obviously, and there was like this kind of, you know, driving to school with my sons listening to it and thinking like, what? Who is this?

This is very unusual. That's awesome. Yeah, it's fucking rad, man. Really rad. Thanks. Will, are you in your Batman booth in the living room? Where are you? We're down in the Batcave right now.

The Jack Shack. I'm in the Jack, what we call the Jack Shack. So sad. It's so gross. That's horrible. It's really gross. It's named after Sean. The sort of that dark sort of subversive nature of some of those songs, that's what I was

so surprised to find out that your parents are so close to you guys, too, and on the road and everything. I was like, oh, so it's not unsafe music, you know, for like, it's okay. The parents are on board with it, so it must just be just the skin of it, because, you know, my daughter was listening to a lot of it, like, oh, my God, is this too adult for her? Is it too? Sure.

And then you see the parents, you're like, oh, no, I got to listen to the lyrics. We did some interview, like, right before the first album came out, or the album, the only one we've put out so far. But right before that album came out, we did some interview on a radio station. And I remember the person interviewing us was like, why is the music you make so dark? Like, why did you make such dark music? And I don't remember exactly what the headline in the news was, but it was just sort of like, you know, it was a dark four years sort of geopolitically, and there was a lot of like

school shootings in the middle of our album. And I remember sort of just saying to her like, and like forest fires and shit. Yeah. Everything was like burning down and people were being shot at festivals and stuff. And I remember just sort of being so annoyed that her... Yeah, why are you guys so dark? Like, guys, the world is dark, though, you know? Yeah.

I remember just kind of being like, we're just sort of reflecting like what we're seeing in the world. Right. And sort of it's showing up in your art. It would be hard for it to not, which I was thinking like, during this lockdown shit, when it's been kind of a dark time, and of course we go ahead and start doing a comedy podcast and I'm like, God, we're so cynical. We don't even know the world around us.

The thing is that we never went for a dark song or a like cynical song. We were just writing about things we were wanting to write about. And it's the same with this album we're working on. It's just songs, you know, they all have their own world of, I don't know what I'm saying. So what are you, so because I'm an idiot, what is the category of music? It's not pop. Is it electropop? Or do you hate subcategories and categories and?

I don't know. I don't know. Perfect. It's just good. And it's successful. It's just great. Yeah. That's what it is.

Is that what you've been doing in this time? So have you guys been working on a record this whole year type thing? The whole year, for real. I mean, I don't know how we would have made an album because, you know, we were planning before COVID obviously to make an album and put it out in 2021, but now having had this whole year of break, you know, I really don't know how we would have done it with the actual schedule that our year was supposed to be like. We weren't even supposed to be home, you know.

Yeah. You guys are supposed to be on tour, right? Yeah. All year. I guess the set list or whatever you call it when your plan is going to be so fun on the next tour because it's all the songs you didn't get behind the last one and all the new ones. People go crazy.

I can't. Are you guys like so ready to get out there and play? Oh, I dream about it. I just, it's all I want. You don't want to stay home for another eight months? No, I don't. You're talking to a guy in pajamas. I think there was a middle period where there was no vaccine, where there was a kind of

a surrendering to the whole thing of like, I guess this is forever, right? And now that there's like light at the end of the tunnel, it's worse. Yeah. It's kind of worse. So it sounds like you guys do like being out on the road. You like the bus, you like the hotels, you like the routine of a show and then going to bed late and sleeping late. As long as it's thought through and not punishing, yes.

What would it look like if it was punishing? Well, there were the first couple of years of me being me. I was 14, 15, and then 16, touring for the first time. And I was also very depressed because I was 14, 15, 16 as you are. And also, you know, at that level, you really grind, like it's the only word I can really come up with. You're just doing so much and I also was new to fame and suddenly I didn't have any friends because I was famous and I was leaving all the time and it was weird.

It was really weird. I'm really glad that I grew up a little bit and have found just ways of making it fun. She loves her crew, too. I love my crew. They're all like my friends, you know? And I also have a rule. I don't go on. Sorry, Will.

I also have a rule that I don't go out on tour straight for like four weeks. Four weeks is like the max that I'll be fully gone without a break. I can come home for like two weeks and go back out, but it's just when you're on tour for more than three or four weeks straight, it just, it starts to feel like a chore and I really don't want it to feel like a chore, you know? Because I love it. And I don't, you know, it's just... No, that sounds really, first of all, that sounds really well thought out and that's

a very sort of mature kind of sober approach to it, knowing what your limits are and knowing what probably if you were to push that, that you would not only would the product maybe not be as good, but you'd start to resent the process a little bit. Exactly. And you don't want to get into that headspace. And I was going to ask you about your friends, like you mentioned early on when you're out there when you're 14, 15, you're probably, like you were saying, you're not with your friends and you probably have friends back home.

That social aspect must be super difficult, kind of disconnecting. So weird. Yeah. Because when you're that age, you don't really know how to talk to grownups and they don't really know how to talk to you. Right. And other kids my age that I was friends with back home, like they're not going to pause their life and wait for me to get back and do things with me again.

Obviously, nobody should do that. You know, things happen and you move on with your life with or without somebody, but it was really hard for me because I just didn't know how to talk to anybody I worked with. Maybe it was over 40 and I was 14, 15 and I just didn't, it was just not good. It just wasn't, and it was waking up at like 8 a.m. to do radio press and having multiple shows and like acoustic performances and then on camera things, like so many things in a day for a 15 year old and then I get laryngitis and then I get like the flu and have to keep doing all this stuff.

So it did get to a point then where I resented it and then I just talk shit about it. All I could do was like, fuck fame, I hate being famous, I hate all of this and I couldn't go anywhere and I was 14 not being able to like go out in the world and that was super weird because I wasn't used to it because I was a little kid. Did you ever resent the fact that Phineas could walk down the street? You guys are both doing this thing, you're pulling equal weight, equal time, equal creative input, but Phineas gets the anonymity and he gets to walk down the street and live his life normally.

I did, I was jealous for a while but now I'm like, I'm good, like now I feel, because now I'm confident in my life and I'm very happy with where it is and I would not take it back or change anything really even though there were a couple years that were really hard because I just think my life is at a place that I just, I'm so grateful for and very aware of how amazing it is and I really enjoy it, you know, before COVID and I was doing all these arena tours and stuff, it was just pure joy, dude, there's no other feeling. Were you able to rekindle some of those childhood relationships and friendships?

The ones that mattered. The ones that mattered? Yeah, for sure. It was kind of good, you got to drop the ones that didn't matter. I was so lucky, I wish I could have dropped so many relationships. Because we have a couple that didn't, they're going to be on the show in about one minute. Oh my God. Hey Phineas, what was that like for you watching your sister go through that and you're going

through it together but watching her, so much of the spotlight is on her shining so bright and you know when that's happening. He didn't want that shit. Yeah, well you don't want it but it's kind of like a helicopter light, like you can't get out of it and every aspect of your life and so she's your sister and you guys are tight. The fame thing was really alarming as a like, I mean it would have been alarming as a friend or anything but as a big brother it was like especially weird because we're talking like

pre-driving years and stuff for Billy too so sometimes I'd be like let's go get lunch and it would just be this pandemonium in a way that I hadn't thought it would be at all and like I remember one time we went and saw a concert and it was like this was before you know we'd like Billy had security or anything and so it was just like her scrawny bouncer brother, like I was like the worst security detail of all time and like just all these kids at this you know venue so it was kind of alarming. Well it was also alarming then because it was a small level of fame but it had all the moments of bad parts of fame.

This is a really dark thing to say but like a lot of the most sort of sinister scary levels of like stalkers and stuff is not like Lady Gaga fame, it's like the first echelon of like a lot of subscribers on YouTube. Because you're not big enough for people to really think you need protection but you're small enough for people to really get to reach you. And on a very real note protection is massively expensive so until you're making enough money to afford security details you just can't afford like your own safety anymore. It's very shitty.

It's weird. It's really weird. Let me just say this I'm in Los Angeles and you guys can't see but I've been working out a lot and so if you need some muscle. Just like on the weekends maybe? Well just do like the matinees Will. Yeah I'll do matinees. You guys need security for matinees?

Cause I do go to bed at 9pm. I have just like a stock stupid dumbass question. Oh great. Well then roll it out for sure, make sure to interrupt the conversation with a stupid question. I want to know it's a question you've been asked a billion times I'm sure but I don't know the answer which is what were your early influences as far as songwriting guys? Oh shit.

Jesus fucking Christ. Guys I'm sorry. Are we done? Are we done? We're just auditioning. We're looking for a new third guys. As a fan I want to know. I want to know like who inspired you as songwriters.

If anybody. And then roll it into your favorite color just after that. And who if you were a tree. What kind of tree? Willow. I think both of us weeping willow. I love a weeping willow. Or a cherry blossom.

What a great question. What's your first question? Our inspirations growing up. Please say mom and dad. Many many many inspirations. Musical you mean musical right Sean? What music do you listen to? Of course I mean musical and songwriting I said in songwriting.

But look it seems to be a really horrible question that I can't imagine anybody would want to know. Do you start to when you start getting some of those like old chestnuts the ones you get in every single interview. Do you guys start to make each other laugh privately by answering the same question with a clearly different answer that only you both know is total BS. That's really funny. It's bad when we have to do an interview together that's like a real serious one.

Sure. It's bad. And the questions are always like. Oh my god. You know one time somebody asked us how we met. Come on. That was nuts. Those are bonkers.

Was the person's name Sean Hayes was that the interviewer? Just because I think it's blatant disrespectful to not answer the question Sean. I was going to answer it eventually. I was going to answer it. Sean went into this a fan he's going to we're going to finish this and that chip has sailed after the first. No but I was going to answer it I was going to answer it. It's our fault.

Jason and I have been misbehaving. Sean's been side texting me hateful things about the both of you. These guys their egos are enormous. But go ahead answer your give them your answer. We grew up listening to like a ton of the Beatles. That was a huge part of writing inspiration. Yeah. Lana Del Rey was big for us.

You loved Green Day. Yeah. You loved a lot of like underground SoundCloud rap. That was very inspiring. Aurora. See I think that's interesting. You guys released that first song on SoundCloud right and it just like what exploded there were you guys watching the numbers tick up was it were you did you put it up there hoping

that it would get traction or was it just like well we're done with this let's put it up there maybe some people listen to it. Exactly that. Yeah. Second thing you said it was very odd that it got any attention at all. The reason we even made it in the first place was because my I danced a lot and my dance teacher was like Billy could you make a song and I could like choreograph a dance to it and I thought that was you know the coolest thing I'd ever heard even though it wasn't

going to be like anything it was just like you know some random dance but I was like sure and we finished had this song and we so whatever we record it blah blah blah and we were gonna just send it to him and not put it up anywhere but we were like I mean it's it's this song we made we might as well put it on SoundCloud like for our friends to listen to there was like a free download link on it there was you know we didn't expect anything though and kind of crazy just in the next couple days it just like grew and grew and grew. But it was a small growth.

It was a small growth it wasn't it seems like oh it went viral and then I became a star and not at all it got like a thousand plays that's how much and we were just over the moon. Your boy Bieber kind of you launched like that right. Yeah. By people fans like you of him. Yeah. Correct.

Your boy Bieber. She loves Biebs. Oh she might but just like you're on like you're on the inside. Yeah. Fuck off man. Let me tell you something Arnett. I tried during. So demeaning.

That Bieber documentary made me cry. Okay. And anybody that likes Bieber. Oh me too. Oh yeah. I like so I'll tell you a true story. This is this is embarrassing because I've done so much stupid shit like this. I was at the at the U.S. Open years ago and they do this thing the day before it starts

and it was me and Will Ferrell playing tennis against Andy Murray and Andy Roddick and we're playing them. There was this kid who was going to play some music right before the thing. It was like on a Sunday and the kids like hey will say to Farrell he was like hey will can I get on a maybe I should do like a funnier dive video or something. And I said I remember saying to Will I was like hey will you super psyched that the nine year old wants to do a video with you and it turned out it was Justin. Oh my God.

Did he do it with him? Yeah of course he did it. I would just watch it every day. He did do it. He did do it. And I was like and I'm so I had a similar thing too with my buddy had his friend he's like I'm spinning. I'm a DJ.

This is like 1992 in New York and he's like are you going to come to our show. He's like I got a show down in Canal Street. I'm like yeah I'm coming to your show Moby. Oh wow. And then and then what about yeah you kind of tisk at that stock tip you got on Netflix and the other one for Uber right. Yeah because I was like every movie every TV show and movie that you want in your house on your computer.

I was like yeah sure sounds like a great idea. Can I ask another fan question here it comes guys hold on. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. It's and a lot of these are for my sister in Wisconsin too. So I am a huge James Bond fan. I know you guys wrote the song No Time to Die.

So two of my favorite things are going to be on the screen at the same time James Bond and Billie Eilish. So I love the song I love I think it's amazing but here's the thing that I get to ask you which I've always wanted to ask somebody who wrote a Bond song and performed a Bond song. Did you guys have like did you have to work with the Bond estate like do they put certain guidelines or influence on how the song should be or do they mold it together or do they leave you alone and trust you. Great question.

It that's a great question. You're also you're very sweet. I appreciate all the compliments it's really nice to hear. He's vicious. You don't need to help him. It was very collaborative. The beginning of the process which is what somebody says when it's like wasn't collaborative. No no no it was it was it was they didn't just say go write a song and it can be anything

and then we'll use it. It was you know it was would you guys be open to writing a song and we were like no shit and then basically the steps were they sent us the script from like the first scene the opening scene and that's all we got but it was kind of it kind of showed what the movie was about and then she kind of Barbara Broccoli kind of gave us a little bit of what the movie was about and and what Barbara Broccoli is the producer of all the James Bond songs. Yeah and she that was basically what we got and we you know the Bond songs are are a very high standard for us.

It's a real honor and so we wanted to be really good and we thought about it really hard and worked really hard on it and well it paid off. It's awesome. Well thank you. It took a couple days of writer's block and then we came through and did it have to hit a certain time because it's always over the credits isn't it the credits. Yeah I think the very last step was sort of like making it right. Let's make it exactly this many seconds or something but but yeah I mean it really was

this it was like on our you know fantasy lifelong bucket list of dreams of like maybe we could do a Bond song and I think it was one of those things where so after the album had come out it was sort of like what would you be interested in doing like who would you want to collaborate with and I think our team maybe was expecting us to be like you know say some other musician or something and we were like if they're making another Bond movie like let us know who we could like who we could beg to do that and wow. The Apple commercial was pretty awesome in that respect as well I mean that's a very pedigreed destination for songs nowadays isn't it.

Yeah Bond and the Apple commercial thing were both very much like auditions in terms of like they were not an offer it was like we'd love to hear what you come up with and then once we had written the thing and presented it to them they you know they said let's play the ball which was very sweet of them. Jason I was a lot about auditions tell them Jason about your last audition that you had the last one. Before Arrested Development. Tell them.

Oh this is for Can You Hear Me Now? Yeah. Yeah. Horizon. I got very close to getting that campaign and had I gotten it I don't think I would have gotten Arrested Development. But Jason if you'd gotten the Can You Hear Me Now campaign you would now many many years later be the Sprint guy saying can you hear that.

Yeah. And I'd have twice as much money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to swing back to in retrospect Sean's question wasn't as terrible as we gave him shit for it but it's more just more fun to give him shit for it than actually. But when you guys when you went out when you first started making your record and you were

you start to record you write a song or whatever did you have somebody in mind like who are the people you go like I hope I sound like or I hope I hope it's going to be like like here are the people that I really love right now especially you know. Like I'm not a musician at all but I know that I have five people who I'd want to sound like. That's a good one. That was that was it was a good one. It was one I haven't heard before sorry Sean.

No I get it. I get it. James Bond was pretty good. That was more of a thing that was prominent when we were first starting like when like when we first started making music which was I was 13 and Phineas was 17 I think. That's crazy to think about. I don't remember feeling that we were that age anyway then it was totally and you know because I didn't know my sound at all.

I was just like we were like pure inspiration from sure yeah and that's the this is a thing I've always talked about which is that you know people get flack for copying others and I totally feel that and have felt that a lot but there's like a certain line of just being inspired versus carbon copy do you know what I mean because when you're starting out in anything in the world not just music you have to try things out to figure out what you like. It's the same with like personalities when you're 13 you meet a kid and you're like oh my god they're so cool I want to be more like them and you do things like them and you talk like them and you you have to do that to become what you are and that shouldn't be that shouldn't

be pushed away like that shouldn't be turned away I guess. No we relate to that we do that I can't speak for these guys but I know that as a performer there are people that I looked up to who I thought were really funny or really witty I mean I love David Letterman I loved his delivery I love how dry he is and you know I was always like I wish I hope that I can cut somebody off and be really shitty and witty in the way he is. It's also a mission accomplished. I know the exact feeling but also you also catch yourself you as in anyone catch you

know I do it all the time or I'm like I'm kind of doing too much like this person that I admire and you have to just be aware that you're you're gonna end up accidentally copying someone just because you think they're dope but I think it's just important to remember that you can be inspired by someone you just can't completely copy them but you can be inspired and you should let yourself be inspired. But instinct is sort of like the child of being inspired by somebody right like you can't you can't get an idea to be or do something unless you have seen it or a version of it beforehand I mean it just.

There are no original ideas in that way I mean Tarantino talks about it all the time he's a brilliant filmmaker he's made some brilliant films and he is also a student of films totally inspired by so many different styles yeah we listen to so the quantity of music we listen to is very very very high and I think you know one of the coolest parts about especially working on the second album over the past year has been that we're deep enough into our catalog that we're we're more internal than external you just kind of build enough of an environment where you're kind of pulling from yourself in an interesting way or your own I don't know do you feel that way at all Billy I was I was not listening

sorry what did you say great answer I was just saying that like when you because we're on like your second album that we've been working on and it's like now I feel like it's it's more like it's just being built upon itself as opposed to external influence do you know what I mean right sure yeah I think so absolutely well on that like do you guys when you when you start to write an album or song do you do you guys try to start as macro as possible like you think about theme or feel or tone and then come up with a melody then come up with lyrics and you start to get more and more and more micro or does it change per song per album it really changes per song it really does I forget that like anytime

I'm asked a question about how my writing process goes in our writing process I always feel like stupid answering it because I'm like but that's how everyone works and I realized recently that it's not that people write in all sorts of different ways and we write in a certain way and it's usually I mean it is random but it's usually out of like three ways ish where it can start with an instrument just playing chords whatever coming up with melodies then coming up with lyrics or it starts with a beat and then it's lyrics and it's melodies or it's you think of or it's concept yeah or it's one lyric or it's one melody like that you just it's random do you feel an obligation to have a

continuity between all of the songs so that the album is a hole in its tone in its sound or given the sort of a la carte nature of the industry now where you don't necessarily have to buy an album you can just kind of buy one song at a time do you guys feel like well let's just make each song great and if somebody finds a continuity thread through all of them then so be it but that's not the drive I feel the opposite I feel like a desire to not repeat ourselves yeah but also I do think it's important to have a project that feels cohesive yeah it doesn't feel like a bunch of clones it's just really been important to me to make music that doesn't sound like my other music I want to make a different

song every single time obviously you can't really fully do that 100% but you can kind of do it and what I like about this album we're working on and you know my debut album or whatever is that it was very different but it felt like from the same project it felt like the same body of work but different enough I don't know if that's even true but I gotta say I love I sort of notice that you keep saying every time you guys say like debut album and you kind of go over whatever and you're talking about there's a self awareness no it's really sweet you get there is a sort of a built in modesty that you guys have there because I know it sounds weird saying it and you feel like if I say debut album I'm bragging

I remember one time saying like never say the words my and career in the same sentence because you sound like a fucking jerk and you're like well my career like shut up you asshole but the truth is at the same time it is you know it is your debut album and you are working on your new album and there is maybe that thing it's I think anyway Jason could learn you guys are genuinely sincerely humble and modest is a part of that not only just the sincerity of it the genuineness of it but is there also sort of like a side benefit of if you stay sort of normal and grounded then you can appreciate all the crazy batshit fun stuff that's happening around it oh my god yes if you get jaded then it's just like

you're yawning on stage oh my god it boggles my mind the shit that people do don't make it normal because then it stops being fun right exactly you stop being able to call people batshit yeah right right what is it that gets you guys really nervous now now that you guys are very good and accomplished and seasoned at a lot of things that you're doing are you guys thinking about areas that might get you outside your comfort zone well yeah also just performing to to piggyback on Jason's question because you already performed at the Grammys and the Oscars yeah the Oscars we were so nervous we were terrible at the Grammys and terrible at the Oscars we bombed the only two really big I literally I can't

even look at pictures of me performing on a puke oh my god well you're good actors then the Oscars we were so scared the Oscars was the scariest thing because it's the coolest one of them all because actors are just classier than musicians they're just so nuts it's such a cliche right like actors get nervous around musicians and musicians get nervous about athletes and athletes get nervous about you know it's all grasses always greener well the difference between the Grammys and the Oscars is like everyone at the Grammys walks up on stage and their first thing we're like wow I wasn't expecting this and there's a lot of umming in Grammy acceptance speeches and like Oscar like everyone you know I mean

most of them are actors but but even the you know sound mixing Oscar is they have written a speech it's so professional and like classy that it's very intimidating and I said that a lot after the Oscars and then there was articles were like Billy I was hates the Oscars and I was like no no no guys they're just really scary and I was not used to that environment I've never been to the Grammys but it does seem like sometimes like a battle of who could care less you know yeah absolutely people don't even show up sometimes yeah and they're like oh and today he's wearing a he's wearing a small fiat to uh like that's his wardrobe holy fuck it's also in the Staples Center and there's like thousands of actual audience

members and I think the Oscars is like you know it's I mean it's in that uh what is it the Hilton or the the Dolby but it's very intimate and it feels like wasn't there a question at the beginning of the question I want to know what get yeah what gets you guys nervous oh what do you find that that you dread like if it's something is planned on a certain day and you'd wake up in the morning you're like oh oh that's so good um talk shows it's talk shows for me is it really you're so good on talk shows though nah take a second look hang on will take a second right in the middle of a compliment fucking bore all three of you are great on well hang on finish thank you go on um no yeah

it's the nerves that get me prepared for it you know if I wasn't nervous I'd probably be worse I get that it's the anticipation of it yeah but it is funny though because you never stopped dreading things I thought that maybe when I got to a certain age or success or whatever that maybe like I would never dread anything again and I dread things every day I just normal things I just dread them and that's that normal part of you that seems so healthy don't worry it only gets worse but it seems very healthy yeah but you know what's interesting is like you know Jason and Will and I have talked about this where I grew up in Chicago and so I didn't grow up at all around any kind of Hollywood Los Angeles your voice

sounds just like my uncle's voice well he's must be gay I don't know how Sean beat you to that one well sorry go on no I mean because he's an uncle let's just start there um but um no uh growing up in Chicago I would watch I told Jason I would watch Jason on TV when I was a little kid and I would watch movies and I would watch all these things and just dream and aspire to I still even when I would go on the universal lot I would drive just as a year ago I'd be like I can't believe I'm driving on the universal lot like it never goes away so what was it like for you guys to grow up in it because you don't have the perspective like I had which was it's so unattainable it's so far away but you guys actually grew up inside of it well we had that up until we were

13 and 17 so to me I do feel like I had that um because I also grew up a huge fan of like Beaver for instance complete fan like merch posters waiting in line blah blah blah and just to me just like you're saying it was completely irrational any idea of celebrity in general I was like there that doesn't happen to people so just because you grew up in LA doesn't mean you would accept it any easier no I think I think that there's like people think it would and and I think that LA definitely no not definitely anything I don't think it really did I mean for us because we didn't grow up we didn't have famous parents and our parents didn't have but they were both in the business right with it sure did that make it feel like sort of your

pathway into the into any sort of entertainment was was somewhat more sort of natural they validated our dreams and our aspirations but they didn't make them look easy no yeah yeah I think that you know we had like both our parents worked several part-time jobs because they were in and out of work um in terms of acting so if anything it just kind of made us feel like maybe this isn't even ever gonna work for us but you know I think the other thing that was to your point Sean maybe it it doesn't feel weird if someone ends up doing something that wasn't a fantasy or dream of theirs prior but like I wanted to make music from the time I was like 11 to the time I was like 18 19 when anyone actually started to care about the music we made and so those years

of like I know exactly what I want to do I just have no idea if I'll ever really get a chance to do that right um we're very daunting but it it felt completely unrealistic I used to listen I used to listen to hall of fame by um what's what to go to standing in the hall of fame the world's gonna know your name and I used to just listen to that and be like damn that'd be so crazy like it'd be so crazy if people knew your name and I was like I would listen and be like there's like that doesn't happen though it's just it didn't feel like anything that could ever happen and it still is crazy that it happened does it feel now like you thought it might if you guys were ever able to get as successful as you dreamed of becoming now that you're there does it feel

like you thought it would be it's way better it's yeah it is better oh that's great that's great at this point what is that what part are you guys really really digging um honestly the parts that I hated three years ago those are the parts that I'm digging now fascinating I don't know really how that works but what are those parts yeah fame in general um I used to just despise it I hated everything about it I hated being recognized I hated not being able to go out I hated you know not being able to post a place because then people would show up at that place wherever it was because they just figure out where it was um I really hated everything about it and I felt stupid because I was like wow I have this thing that like is really cool and people would kill for this and I

don't like it at all and you know I was also forgetting that I was really really depressed and that can make you hate almost anything and I don't really know what changed but I fucking love fame I gotta tell you I just I love it is it because you're you're more comfortable with it because you feel more worthy of it or you like what you're doing with it or I I definitely like what I'm doing with it and I feel I feel more confident in it I think that there were some years like the years I'm talking about where I felt like I had to prove myself all the time yeah especially to kids like I grew up with like we had this we you know we have this like tradition of like going to our friend's house for like what fourth of July or whatever and there was just a

couple years where I felt so lame because I I felt like people thought of me as like a joke like people that knew me my whole life and I felt like every time I had went and saw people I used to know I had to like prove that I was actually doing pretty well but nobody believes you because you know they they don't think about it because why would your friend that you knew since you were a kid suddenly of course I understand that making that that leap from feeling weird about it and not knowing how to deal with fame and getting to a place of comfort I mean there's a whole before you guys were born you two did that record after Joshua Tree they did that pop record which was basically Bono's whole sort of struggle with fame and he played a version of himself and I think that a

lot of that was him trying to figure out all of a sudden he's Bono and he's and he's doing these great things in the world and then you get to a place and now when you talk to Bono he's very comfortable with who he is yeah yeah because I was just gonna say it's so much healthier Billy to say I fucking love fame than not and you've processed it quicker than a lot of people do I feel like I can say it because I hated it and so when I say it I'm not trying to be like I'm so cocky and you know because I have fame but it's like I think that we should be aware or the and you guys too like we should be aware that we have an incredible thing that would get to do yeah you're very pretty but look at Jason this the the pandemic is like for Jason it's been

terrible because he hates having to wear a mask he doesn't want to cover his face because he wants people to know it's him and it's killing him so I got a mask made with the bottom half of my face from a photo so I can wear the mask because his happiness is pegged to yeah so in five years and 10 years 15 years you guys still making albums that you love do you do you see yourselves diversifying into producing other young artists and and launching them I mean I know Phineas you do a lot of that and you guys have hit so much success so young do you think about mapping it out like Jesus Christ we keep this thing going for another 30 years we're only 50 not everybody has the mind of a serial killer Jason like what do you do where do you it's it's so white hot

already um I try not to think about it um I really have a strong feeling of of wanting to be to have longevity yeah we think about longevity a lot I think you know Billy is very multi-talented and this has a great eye for visual media and stuff I think we've talked a lot about how our favorite art like almost no one has like any more than five good albums most people have like one good album and then no one has more than five good albums I think um and so we kind of are like except Drake except Drake yeah unlimited supply yeah he does he just keeps going when you're gonna listen to music uh that's not your own who are you listening to right now like who do you a lot of the carpenters honestly really wow come on you don't know you're missing you don't know

you're missing they're amazing we love the carpenters just not all the time so currently I've been listening to a lot of Julie London um she's just been setting the mood for me somehow uh also Arlo Park's just better an album that's really good yeah but honestly I've been just I've just been replaying the unreleased songs we have because I really like them yeah and I'm very happy with them and they're one of those change from on to released when the album comes out well when's that Billy I can't tell anyone come on make news you guys have been super generous with your time no will that's the end of it you guys uh we've we've exceeded our promised hour um been so fun though we love you both deeply immensely I love you guys you guys are such huge talents really

exciting to meet you guys we're big fans of you guys so this is very exciting even after this talk I listened to smartlist my girlfriend and I both listen to it all the time come on and because I feel like we've cyber bullied Sean on this episode I wanted to close with my favorite thing Sean's ever said which is during like an ad read at one point Jason you go yeah I just had an energy bar and Sean goes oh when does that kick in I thought that was a fire that that made me like howl laugh that really killed me there's a lot of cruelness it gets thrown around this this zoom chat well it's cruel tea and uh there's your uh education mirroring it's ugly head again so thank you you guys you're the best

thank you it was so exciting to meet you for me truly and for all of us I just uh really really truly honestly a huge thank you guys thank you for doing this continued success push that album out soon please we'd like more music we'll try can't we love you guys thanks for having such a treat by you guys thank you wow now listen you know I'm a parent I hope my kids grow up to be like that and that they still get along and they're productive did we talk about this before would you guys ever home school or did you or I I've got my own scars of sort of like not being involved in a regular school as a as a kid and sort of losing out on the social structure of of at all that I would not but that's only because of my own baggage I'm you know I'm sure it's great I'm sure

it's fine but right that's interesting well would you ever home school arch-enable um no this is the closest we've come to it obviously during the pandemic and so it's not going well well no I mean it's going as well as it's going for everybody it's it's very very trying and I think that what we're missing is that socialization and you know you can't stress enough how important that is I think for my good Billy and Phineas they seem but they've turned out great I know I know it's like but like where do they go to like how would you meet a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you're home school I don't know and they're like they're like four years he's like four years older than her too or something right so like they weren't it like my kids it's different for them even during this

pandemic because they're so close in age um you know a lot of their friends are very similar and you know of similar age above it must be tough when you're you're a younger sister and your your brother's four years older than you yeah that's a huge you know you're you're a freshman while your brother's a senior in high school yeah and that's that's a big how do you do school together yeah yeah I've always wondered that I just I think it's fascinating like I read this about Billie Eilish and her parents and that they just constantly reinforced creativity around the house so you couldn't get that at a public school I mean yes you can in certain you know programs and stuff but it's constant at home it's always constant I'm sure they're reaping the benefits of having

such a stable upbringing and such a close and healthy relationship with their parents that they're they're in this this you know this cauldron of anxiety or temptation or um you know that they've got that solid home base is probably really helpful for them if I had kids I if and I saw that as an example but yeah maybe I should homeschool but we do have like we have the three of us have mutual friends I can think of a couple people who have who homeschool their kids and it really works out for them yeah and it's and it so happens that because of their because of how much they're in the public eye and how well known they are that it really works I mean apart from the fact that it works for them in terms of travel and stuff because of work but also because of that level of you

know notoriety and now because of COVID everybody's homeschooling yeah and so like first of all it's served them well during COVID because they're like we know what we're doing in this environment yeah the last year and a half has been good exactly and uh but also you know they've figured it out Jason have did you know Billy to bring her on the show and by the way great guests thank you very much unbelievable guests uh I met them at Kimmel show um and they were super complimentary about um Arrested Development and uh they liked Ozark and um so Sean Arrested Development is a TV show Jason let me finish let me finish but what they really loved was Cheers so Sean you um you uh yeah okay great and how long Sean were you on Cheers so you know I was a first day player

yeah and then I did a really good job expanded them to the to the postman yeah to the oh you did the post guy oh man I love that how are you ah normie how are you normie no no anyway Billy and Finn our heart were fantastic weren't they yeah they're uh they're an inspiration to every brother and sister out there