SmartLess - "Larry David"

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

We go in the weeds with Larry David on critical items: dinner parties, romance novels, The Golden Rule, Halloween… and we unsuccessfully debut our new Speed Round format. “He’d rather be doing nothing than talking to us,” on an all-new SmartLess. We love you.Also, our friends Johnny Knoxville and Elna Baker stop by to talk about their new SmartLess Media podcast, "Pretty Sure I Can Fly," celebrating unsung heroes who achieve incredible feats by “having more balls than a bowling alley.” Listen to Pretty Sure I Can Fly: Wondery.fm/PSICFSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, this is Larry David. I've been asked to say that I'm going to be on the show later. So I'm complying with that request. Yeah, welcome to what is this? I don't even know what I'm on here. What is this? Lattice. Smart. Lattice. Smart. Lattice. Hi everybody, Jason, I love that you're still here in town. I didn't know you were gonna be here.

I know, look at you. I am working remotely this week, yes, from Los Angeles. Wonderful. Where it's got New York weather today. It's nice and rainy. I love it. That's some nice rain. Warring rain.

Do you guys like weather? Or do you love the Southern California 75 degrees? Hey man, I'm not single, so. I don't know where this is going. Hey guys, what's your favorite season? Hey, do you like weather? Come over here real quick. Can I talk to you for a second?

Yeah, it's nice. I prefer it. Well, it's very Chicago-y. Yeah, but you would like 75 and breezy 365 days of the year? No. Yeah, I don't like the heat, so that's an issue. I don't mind it. But you wouldn't mind some snow and some rain, would you?

That's what I'm saying. I actually enjoy this. I think I've told you this before. I live in such a snow, I grew up in such a snow I grew up in such a snow snowy point Well, not really that snowy but but cold to the extent that this morning dropping the kids of the bus It was raining and stuff and I saw this one that great Sean how he just takes him just to the bus stop You can't take them all the way to school like some of us. I don't live in the valley. So yeah so anyway, I

See see I see a road that's going up off Beverly Glen, like really steep little side road, and I had this in my old house, like, boy man, it's going to be tough when it gets icy. It doesn't get icy. No. Oh, so your brain just immediately, huh. My old house, when I was going to buy it, I thought, like, fuck, how am I going to get up this thing when it ices?

And then like, oh, it doesn't get ices. Never ices. Never ices. Oh, my God, that's incredible. I know. By the way, sorry, go ahead, Sean, you were gonna say something, but... No, you go. You go. Well, I was just gonna say, because I realized as I'm talking,

I did one of those, another mistake, I got one of those emails and it had the thing there, and it had like reviews buried in the email. I open it up and then it has like a couple about the podcast. One of them was one star and it said, does Will only get one hour to speak a week because he just wouldn't shut up. And I'm like, I'm giving this guy satisfaction,

but at the same time I'm thinking like, it's free, right? He didn't pay anything for it. Could turn it off. But he's implying that he would gladly pay a little bit to shut you up a lot. I guess so, and or it made him so mad this thing he's implying that he would gladly pay a little bit to shut you up a lot I guess so and or it made him so mad this thing He's getting for free that he went online and typed out a message gave the podcast one star time Oh, Willie don't read that you want to read those well. I do it for you guys. I'm out here

You want me on that wall? You know you need this but it's a specific subset of our listeners that actually take the time to write something, something not so nice. Yeah. And like, is it a full representation of our audience? I don't know. I don't know.

It was very hostile towards me. We take it under advisement though. Yeah, we take it under advisement. So I'm gonna shut up. I wanted to tell you. Well don't do that, but. No, don't do that. I wanted to tell you that but don't do that I wanted to tell you what he's saying is he he likes you at an 80 love you at a five

No, no, no, he wants me at a zero. I Love that you're just like then just don't listen. I get it. I Was chatting with will very briefly this morning You guys talk before we talk? Not usually. Not usually. You guys running over bits? Yeah. Okay, so listen, so you set me up with this. And I texted, and Jay I texted you a lot last night.

I was like, I think I reached my text limit with Jason. What, last night? Last night or two nights ago. Wait, let me look here. I don't see any texts from you. Yeah, I was like. I don't see any texts from you. Oh wait, here it is. No, we were texting back and forth.

Oh, about Scotty? Yeah, about Scotty, yeah. That wasn't a lot. Yeah. Did you hear about Scotty, Sean? No, what happened? Sorry. No.

Oh, yeah, it's not working out. Scotty's out. Scotty's out. Almost 18 years. Yeah. Yeah, so Sean is trying to figure out what to do with the weekend to take full advantage of it. Let's talk about the weather, Jason.

He's tech avail LA. Yeah, he's just ordered a box of glow sticks from Amazon for the weekend. No, I wanted to tell you, so I was eating breakfast, I walked past the bathroom and this is the craziest thing. Scotty loves peanut butter. Why is my sound going out? Oh, can you hear?

Oh, there we go, okay, go ahead. Hang on one second. Sorry, let me remind you where you were. So Scotty loves peanut butter, go ahead. Right. Wait, by the way. No, this is really interesting. Do you think that this would fit

into the breaking news category? Absolutely. Did you guys find each other on the PB&J freak site? Well, that's fun because I love jelly. Where's your address? That's... Why is that? It's not that even that good.

Could you imagine? PB&J like- Love to spread a little of you on me. Like a food dating site. We could make, the two of us together would make a great meal. By the way, it's not supposed to be a dating site. It's supposed to be just- Just a culinary site.

A peanut butter appreciation site turned into a dating site. They got married at the GIF headquarters. The culinary site. The peanut butter appreciation site turned into a taste. They got married at the JIF headquarters. Okay, so here we go. Here we go. Do you like JIF? This is funny, this is funny actually. Do you like JIF?

Scott, oh Sean? I'm in a JIF. I do like that. Scott, he loves peanut butter. I would love to see a taste test between JIF and Skippy. Sorry, go ahead. Let's do it. When his blood sugar is low, okay, because he's got diabetes, he'll go in the pantry

and scoop out a spoonful of peanut butter. And every time any one of us goes to get peanut butter, Ricky, the dog, can smell it and he comes over there and sits there and he drools like crazy and there's like a puddle of his dog spit. So it's cute and disgusting all at the same time. And it's created a bad habit because we always cave in and give him some peanut butter.

So now we have to find a way to sneak the peanut butter when the dog is sleeping in another room. So this morning I walk by the bathroom near the kitchen and I'm like, are you in there? And he said, yeah, I'm eating peanut butter. I said, in the bathroom? He said, yeah, it's the only way to avoid the dog. Boy.

I remember when, yeah. What? You know, it's just, when I was kid, that was the only place to get privacy and I would do different things in the bathroom than sneak peanut butter. He really truly brought the jar of peanut butter. But you know what, both you and Scotty have the same,

you end up with the same result. Right, you both finish. I thought that was odd and funny. Guys. It was, it's definitely. Here's somebody who's funny but not odd. Huh, what about that? Not great, but go ahead. He's a very talented pal of mine.

He's had more success than the three of us combined. Like many comedians, he's got standup and Saturday Night Live on his resume. But before making his mark on the comedy zeitgeist of the last half century, he got his bachelor's degree in history, worked as a private chauffeur with the uniform and everything, and was selling bras at wholesale.

Things took a major turn for him in 1988 when he started to work on a little pilot called The Seinfeld Chronicles. It's my very hilarious friend, Larry David. Larry David? Larry! Oh, look at him, oh, look at him. He's already bored, he's already bored.

How disgusting. Already, how about 15 minutes? I apologize, it definitely comes out of your time, so that's a good thing. You're gonna be with us for another 45 minutes. But here's the sad part. By the way, the dog thing, I love when the dogs are out of the house

so I can have a meal. That's what I'm saying. And relax. That's what I'm saying. You can't eat with them. That's what I'm saying. That's your fault probably, or Ashley's, right? You fed them, and now they don't forget that.

No, she started feeding them from the table. It's all her fault. I gave her a dirty look, but she did it, and now. Once you make her eat outside with the dogs, I'll teach her, and she'll never do it again. I'm telling you, I take snacks into my bathroom. I do. Right, because of the dogs?

Yeah, because of the dogs. That's what I'm saying, so somebody, yeah, you can relate. Larry, I'm so glad you're finally here. Did we just finally made your deal? It took so long. I know. What do you mean? God, your business affairs was just, I guess, was your agent just beating us up?

What are you involved in business affairs? We're not, we're kidding. This is all for you. Oh, you were joking. He was joking. By the way, you know, I... I get that a lot. A lot of surprise.

Oh, sorry, it was humor? I really sneak up on folks. Check your six. What the fuck? That's so good. Can we talk about Sean's appearance on Curb this year? Wow, it was gonna get there. I haven't seen it yet. Has it been on?

If we have to. All right, so speaking of making deals, you made a Sean Hayes deal and got him on the show. Yeah. And? And. He's a long time coming. Do you have notes?

Be fucking real. At the time of my life. Be honest. I'm gonna be as honest as I can. Yeah. He was fantastic. I don't know about him. I'll bet he was just fine. Listen, he was, no, fantastic. I don't know about him. I bet he was just fine.

No, fantastic. He played a lawyer and you believe this guy was a lawyer. And he had to do a scene where he wakes up in the morning. It was like Gene Hackman from The French Connection. Oh boy. The acting display of him getting up in the morning. Sure. The whole deal.

I was like, my mouth dropped. I was in love. I added wiping my eyes. Wiping your eyes. It was real Jean-Acte. Did you start with a... Yeah, a little bit. Which, Sean has the worst sleep hygiene I imagine of the four of us here. So that must have, you had to dig deep. Did you study people's sleep? How did you do it, Sean has the worst sleep hygiene I imagine of the four of us here, so that must have,

you had to dig deep. Did you study people sleeping? How'd you do it, Sean? Cause you have no idea. I watched hours of tape. Yeah, okay. Of just people sleeping. Of people that weren't wearing the mask.

Laird, but that was one of the, I don't know, Curb has been one of my favorite shows forever and ever and I loved being on it. I was honored to be asked. I was honored to do it with you, and on the last season nonetheless. Yeah. Will, did you ever get on that show?

No, I was never asked. Yeah, me neither. Oh boy. Not once. Larry said to me, Larry, do you remember this? Like about a year ago I ran into you, and Larry said, hey. Oh hey, you should be on the show.

He said, how come you, he did. And he goes, how come you, he goes, how come you were never on Curb? I said, first of all I said what, because I think I'm too tall. And then I said, it's your show, you never asked me. That's why, it's the primary reason. It is true, just about everybody in Hollywood

has either been on that show or Law & Order. And not us, although Willie, you've done a Law & Order. But I would say this, now I take pride in the fact that I wasn't, now it makes it more, I'm in a more exclusive club. I'm like the Marty Scorsese of never winning the best Oscar for directing with regards to. Of course, Susan Lucci.

Well, it does sound like, I will say, it does sound like a really, from what I've heard from my friends that have been on the show, that it's like one of the greatest experiences. It's like up there with Sirenite Live. It's just an incredible group and you're improvising. I think it's the improvising. Actors really love to improvise. But I'll bet you've had some that have been like, forget it, I will sink in that atmosphere,

do not, I'm not coming on. Yes, not many, but there have been a few who really couldn't do it. Had a tough time. What do you do about those who say, oh yeah, great, no, I love improvising, and they come on and they're just horrendous. What do you, how do you, who has a conversation with them?

You or the director? What, you mean somebody who we've asked to do it? To do it, and they clearly are way over their skis with improvisation, do you do a, okay guys, let's take a quick five, can I talk to you for a second? It's only happened a couple of times in the show where people were trying to be funny.

Right, right. Right. And that's like the worst thing you could ever do. And that's a hard note to give what what does that sound like? Do you do you pull the outside don't I here's the note? Yeah, don't try to be funny. That's shit. Wow Yeah, don't do it What one of your great cast members the fantastic the incredible Vince Vaughn who I just think the world of he gave me a great A great note once when I was trying to improvise doing a job with him.

We've done a couple of movies together. He was doing something genius and then I said something and he just stopped. He just looked at me and said, do you think that's helping? And I thought it was part of the dialogue, right? The improv. But it was not a character. It was part of the dialogue, right? The improv. It was not a character.

It was Vince saying to Jason, shut your mouth and let me do my thing. And it was a good note. What a gut punch. But Larry, thanks for being here today. Hey Larry. Shawn, do you have an agenda you're trying to get to? I just want to ask him a question.

I haven't even gotten to the point yet that I feel so bummed out. Yeah, because I would have loved that environment so much. Larry, it's not over yet. It's not over. Larry, I'm going to fucking... I mean, I run into Larry on the golf course. I keep calling him Gary.

That's why I run into him on the golf course. Maybe that had something to do with it. I run into Larry on the golf course before and I've never been able to say it except for the one time when he asked me where I run into him on the golf course. Maybe that had something to do with it. I run into Larry on the golf course before and I've never been able to say it except for the one time when he asked me where I haven't been on, I was like, man, I really went, and it is one of my true regrets. I was like, that's an environment I feel like

I would have really liked. Because I like to fuck around. But anyway, so Larry, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to our show. How do you feel, scale of one to 10, how do you feel today about being here right now? Before I ever do anything, any show ever, I always regret that I said yes.

Yes. And I feel that way today. Of course. We're gonna get you to the other side of that by the time we're done. Okay, I hope so. Or not. Or it'll be worse. But are you good about saying no, or you are you terrible?

Do you say yes because you don't want to you don't want to displease people No, I'm I'm good about saying no. Yeah good. That's a great quality. That's good. I mean Well, we had a friend who told us once look if you don't want to do it tomorrow, right? You someone says yeah in a few months, you know, you're like sure Yeah, no the better thing if you you don't wanna do it tomorrow, say no today, even if it's a couple months in the future. Larry, can we go back, Sean, can I grab the reins here for a second? Sure, yeah.

I'm gonna ask you, I kinda wanna, I know that you were a standup back in New York, you started sort of as a standup, right? And I know this from, I got kind of a history of you through our mutual friend Jim Valley, the great Jim Valley, who I adore. He lived in my building. And he lived in your building.

In New York. I remember him telling you stories about when Tanis's daughter was little and Jim was kind of a stay at home dad in a lot of ways, right? Yeah. And he would talk about you living in the building at Manhattan Plaza, right?

Right. What was that like being a standup back then? Like what was your kind of, what were your ambitions when you were doing that back in those days living in Manhattan Plaza and being a, did you want to be the world's greatest standup? I wanted to be a great standup. Yeah.

I wasn't, but I wanted to be one. And I really would have settled if you had told me in 1987 and you offered me $200 a week to do stand-up in New York, at the clubs, $200 a week for the rest of your life, I would have taken it. Wow. Wow. Wow. We have an offer for you.

I had no hopes to do anything. Well, but what about, but you said, Sean said in the intro that you studied history to be a professor? No. No, no, just to get out of college. And that was world history or American history? Both.

Will loves himself some world history. I took history, I dropped out of college, but I was a history major and I love history. I read mainly. Yeah, I had no, I wasn't gonna, I wasn't interested in show business. Right. Really?

Yeah. But dad, parents, by the way, Jewish by the way, both sides are just your father? It's a both, yeah. It's both, and grew up in the. He sounds so disappointed. I know. You know, if you would've split it up,

I don't think it would've been the worst thing in the world. If you would have given me a half and half, I admire the halves. Sometimes somebody will tell me he's a half, and I'll go, oh, that's great, that's great. Yeah. So were either one of them particularly funny or funny enough for you to feel like,

oh, maybe I'll be a standup, I got it kind of in my genes? No. No. No. No. No. My mother was funny without trying to be funny, without realizing she was being funny. She had a kind of a Gracie Allen quality about her. In fact, my friends called my mother Gracie,

but it wasn't purposeful. She wasn't cracking wise. Right. She wasn't cracking wise. Right. And we will be right back. Thanks to Viori for supporting the show. If you're sick and tired of traditional workout gear, Viori has you covered, literally. Everything has been designed to work out in,

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After college you were in the Army Reserve? Yeah, because Vietnam was going on. And now back to the show. After college you were in the Army Reserve? Yeah, because Vietnam was going on. I didn't want to go, you know, I didn't want to go. And I signed up for the Reserves. And never got drafted? No, I never got drafted. But I got out of the Reserves after two years with a psychiatric discharge. Let's hear more about that. Yeah. Oh well I told this, I told this I think on Howard Stern.

It's kind of a long story, but should I make a long story short? No, you can, we have a 45 minutes and a different audience. You've got a completely different audience. Yeah. If you're smart, this is the last answer you'll give. So good.

Work the clock, Larry. Yeah. Challenge. And by the way, just make it up anyway. We're not going to check. No, I was in the Army, the Reserves. I went to basic training. It was horrendous.

It was the worst experience of my life. I was ducking under live ammunition and firing weapons. Jumping over walls. And I had bayonets. So I did that for eight weeks and then I had occupational specialty school. I was a petroleum storage specialist. What?

And then we had to, yeah, it's a, well, you have to fill up the tanks with gas. Sure, sure. Somebody has to do it. So then, then after I got out, I had to go to meetings once a month at Floyd Bennett Field, a big airplane hangar, and it was freezing and I had to go home and I stayed at my apartment

My parents apartment in Brooklyn. I stayed with them for Saturday Friday nights and Saturday night and then I'd go home back to New York on Sunday And but the meetings were Saturday and Sunday and then I heard about a psychiatrist who was writing letters To get people out. So I borrowed $250, I went to see the psychiatrist, I convinced him that I was insane, he wrote me a letter saying I was insane. You gotta, stop there.

How do you convince him you're insane? What was your flavor? My flavor was I wanted to kill myself. Okay, so you went in there and you really tried to be convincingly... Yeah, I had suicidal ruminations. What was it you were trying to get rid of? What were you trying to avoid? Life was just too hard.

Were you able to make yourself cry? I was able to act. I was able to act it. Yeah, you can see it on Max right now. I think I could have fooled... I don't know if I fooled him, because everybody was acting for him. But when I went to the meeting

armed with the letter, now I'm really acting insane. And these people who knew me for two years, because I went off into the corner, I was huddled, I was by myself, I was looking around, acting crazy. And I said, where? Rocking back and forth a little bit, good, good. Still rolling.

Where's the major? I can't, where's the major? I need to talk to the major, where's the major? Yeah. And so somebody... And I saw people pointing at me, talking about me. I know they were... Because you're nuts.

Like, what was going on with me? And then I went to see the major, and I gave him the letter, and he read the letter, and I'm sitting across from him, acting as nutty as a fruitcake, and... You should have chewed off a corner of the letter and I'm sitting across from him acting as nutty as a fruitcake and um... You should have chewed off a corner of the letter.

Well, he had the letter. He read the letter. He asked me a couple of questions after the letter and then he said to me, can you drive home? Yeah, perfect. You knew you'd done it. And I knew. I knew I had him.

I said, I said, oh yeah, yeah, I'm a done it. I knew I had him. I said, oh yeah, yeah, I'm a good driver. I'm a good driver. Wow. That's crazy. Wow. Now you're not old enough to go to Vietnam. I tell you what, we could have used some of that kind of ingenuity in Vietnam. Now I'm just saying, we could have used people who had thought... The country could have used you. Yeah, the country could have used it, Larry. I'm sure I could have made a contribution in some way.

Yeah, but look at the contribution you ended up making here. Wonderful, Larry. But Larry, now that you're here on this little smart list thing, and we didn't get a chance to really go deep on the set when I was working with you on Curb, like, I always wanted to ask you,

I wanted to ask you the questions those days that we worked together, but I was too embarrassed. Like, I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but Seinfeld, I've always wondered, how did you and Jerry even meet? And how did that happen? Because when you make a TV show,

it's so rare that the talent and the writers or the showrunners, that everything kind of hooks up and everybody has the same sensibility. And it hooks up and everybody has the same sensibility. And it seems you and Jerry had the same sensibility. So did you know each other out or was that like a business, like set up meeting or something? We were both comedians in New York. And so you knew each other.

So we knew each other in New York. He generally performed at the comic strip. I was at the improv, but we would see each other a lot. We always enjoyed each other's company. We would actually go and write together in the afternoon. He'd bring his premises, I'd bring my premises, and we'd go over them. And I had written a screenplay that somehow he had read.

And then when NBC approached him about doing a show, I had written a screenplay that somehow he had read. And then when NBC approached him about doing a show, he came to me and asked if I'd be interested in working with it. Had you written a half hour script before? No. No. That's why it's so damn good.

It's just so different in form. But did you, so when you get into that, started writing that half hour multicam format. Wait a second, wait a second. I did write one half hour, I did write a half hour pilot for Gilbert Gottfried. No kidding. Yeah, that was filmed and they didn't pick it up.

That was for HBO. Was it also sort of changing the format a bit? No? Yeah. Yeah, they didn't like it. Sorry, Willie. Well, I was just gonna say, so I kinda wanna get into this half-hour format.

So you do multicam, but the way that you do Seinfeld, it's not like traditional multicam, because you have, right, well, at least initially, you kind of would go back and forth to Jerry doing his standup, and then you guys kind of fine tune that as you went, is my recollection, again. Right. But then-

The premise of the show, the premise of the show initially, was how does a comedian get his material. So we would go through an episode and you would see whatever happened to him on the show, he would turn into material. That was like the idea. And then it went like after the first year,

you guys tossed that, right? I don't think after the first year. I think it was a couple of years. And then you just kind of moved it to the end. Yeah, right. But did you, again, I don't want to get too in the weeds on the format. No, go in the weeds.

But we're already in the weeds. Did you enjoy it? I don't know, was it difficult for you writing in that format? Was it a format that you liked or that you had to get used to or that you rebelled against? that you liked or that you had to get used to or that you rebelled against? No, I was okay with it.

I didn't mind it at all. At one point I said to him, I can't believe they're letting us do this. I was really surprised. Really? Yeah, I felt like, how are we getting away with this? Why are you letting us do this? Did you have a staff that you handpicked

or did they try to marry you with a bunch of more traditional writers and how did that all work out? Well, for the first four shows, I wasn't the executive producer. Yeah. They brought in someone who had experience. Sure.

And who had a show on the air previously. And they brought him in. And he was my boss. Right. And so we handed in the first couple of shows. And then we were called into his office for notes. And he just, it was just four episodes. That note meeting, it did not go well.

We just generally probably wanted to make it something It did not go well. It just generally probably wanted to make it something a bit less specific. Less esoteric? I don't know. They were probably going for something more traditional, something more familiar, recognizable, because you're a major network and let's round the edges a bit. And you guys, thankfully, said, well, but,

because you guys famously did not start high up in the ratings, you were probably figuring, what, give us a chance to grow and do our own thing. I said no to everything he said. Yeah. Right. I said, I'm not gonna, I can't do that. And then I, you know, I was, and. I'm not gonna I can't I can't do that and then I can then I you know, I was and then I quit and and

They said Jared and then Jerry went to Castle Rock. It said look forget it We're gonna even do this or not. And and so then that was that guy didn't really participate after that Yeah, and it was it was essentially it was essentially my show after that. Yeah. Larry, and it should be noted, I was a fan of Jerry's, I saw him when I was like 17, my buddies got me for my birthday to go see Jerry play

in Toronto in a theater. Oh no? Yeah, and I was a really big fan of his standup, and so when you guys started the show, I watched for a season, I had just moved to New York. It was the fall of 90, right, when you guys came on the air? I think that's when, or summer, maybe?

The summer. Summer of 90, yeah, summer of 90. The pilot came on in the summer of 89, and then the first four shows came on in June of 90. Yeah, and so crazy. So crazy. And it was the Seinfeld Chronicles, as everybody knows, right?

Yeah, the first season, yeah. First season. And they were? Or just the pilot, I think. I think it was just the pilot. Oh, was it? I don't remember, yeah. And I seem to remember,

I think we talked about this maybe when Jerry was on, that the budget for the show at NBC came out of late night. Right? That initially it was Rick Ludwin who... I think Variety. Oh, Variety, Variety, yeah. And right, was it?

Rick Ludwin. Yeah, one of the greats. He championed the show. Great dude. The show wouldn't have gotten on the air if not for him. I love that. And by the way, while you were on Seinfeld, you had both your daughters or just one daughter?

No, both. Both, wow. And did you bring them around? Were they interested? No, they were babies. No, I know, but when they got older? When they got older, it was off the air. First of all, don't, yeah.

Sean, you stupid son of a... I thought they were like... Sean, take a time out. Real quick. Did the show do well with babies? Sean, the show went off in 98. My daughter, Kazzie, was born in 94. Oh, okay.

And Romney was born in 96. First of all, calm down. Larry, how did you guys do with like toddlers? Did you guys get a lot of toddlers? Yeah. Oh yeah. So, but Larry, Curb, correct me, has been on longer than Seinfeld was?

Curb has been on for 24 years. 24 years, isn't that amazing? Not, not consecutively. No, not consecutively. You take like 10 years off. But when we started, we started. Holy shit. Wait, I wanna go into Curb like 10 years off. But when we started, we started. Holy shit. Wait, I wanna go into Curb More

because how did you come up with the, like being there, I was like, oh, this is how this works. You get like a little outline for my sister Tracy who doesn't understand. It's not written like, say Seinfeld was. It's all improvised like we were talking at the beginning of this episode. That, but how did you?

It's a story outline. The story outline, yeah, so you have to hit those points. But it's so fun because you spend an hour just improvising one scene, and then you cut out the fat in the editing room, and you have all great stuff. It's such a great format. So who thought of that, and why did you think of that? I heard once, because when you and I did the three stooges,

you said to me, I hate memorizing lines. Yeah. Well, it was, Seinfeld had ended, the three stooges, you said to me I hate memorizing lines. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was, Seinfeld had ended, and I was thinking about what I was gonna do next, and Jeff Garland had, I had an office at Castle Rock, and Jeff Garland had an office next door, and he said to me, what are you gonna do now?

I said, I'm thinking about going back to standup, and he said, well, you should film it. Uh-huh. And then I thought me, what are you going to do now? I said, I'm thinking about going back to stand-up. And he said, well, you should film it. And then I thought about, oh, well, what is that going to be? Filming it, that sounds intrusive. I don't know. What are they going to do? The camera's going to follow me into a dry cleaner? I could understand.

I could see how it's going to be on stage. That could be somewhat interesting to see the growth of the act from beginning to end. But offstage, I didn't like the idea of filming myself, cameras following me around, I didn't feel I'm all that interesting to follow. And so I thought maybe if I wrote some fictitious stories, that we could do that around the stand-up.

The stand-up could be real, but the offstage stuff would be just stuff I made up. And so that's what I did. I wrote an outline. I made Jeff my manager. Cheryl auditioned. She was my wife. We had kids in the first special,

because that's what it was. It was a special. It had kids in the first special, because that's what it was. It was a special, it wasn't a pilot. It was just a one-off special. Right, we got it. And, did you get it? Or should I repeat it one more time? I just can't wait to hear what happened to the kids.

Well, I didn't really want to see the kids, I realized after the special. How did you off the children? I just pretended the first show never existed. Never happened, that's the best way to do it. I love stuff like that. You never need to fucking explain it. No, no, no, you don't need to explain everything, right? I love that. Just fucking changed it.

I didn't want kids in the show. I just thought the show would be so much funnier without kids. I didn't want to deal with kids. I didn't want to in the show. I just thought the show would be so much funnier without kids. I didn't want to deal with kids. I didn't want to keep having to explain, what about the kids? Where are the kids? Who's watching the kids? I didn't want to have to keep justifying everything

that was going on and having to explain where the kids were. Right. Kids aren't funny. Kids aren't funny. Hey, the other thing is, Larry, do you think, God, you did something really genius, which is, you were able to play this version of yourself, if you will, and you get to sort of be cranky and say whatever you want.

And has it, it must have, God, I'm so envious, it just bled into your real life that you're able to now, because people just buy it, and they're like, it's just Larry being Larry. He's like from the show. And now you can just, you can go to a gas station and give a guy the finger and like people will laugh. See you later. Or scream at the slow group in front of you.

Yeah, you can do whatever the fuck you want on this planet. I mean, I don't know about the planet, but like the west side of LA and Manhattan, you could do whatever the fuck you want. It's made my life so much better. Jesus fucking Christ, now I'm jealous. I'm really getting heated now.

When I realized this fucking carte blanche, you literally printed yourself a carte blanche to say whatever the fuck you want in the places that we... And people are disappointed if I'm not that way. I know! People are like, fuck the guy paid his bill and he didn't tell me to go fuck myself.

I mean, what am I doing wrong? He must hate me. You're making the people happy by you being cranky. It's so great. Yeah. But do you notice that honestly, that you get some stuff out there as this sort of this other version of yourself,

and then your real life actually ends up being a little bit more placid and less dramatic? I haven't noticed that, but it is acting and doing that Larry David on the show. Yeah. It is so much fun, first of all, and kind of a little cathartic in a way. I know what you mean. A little cathartic in a way. I know what you mean.

Because you keep. A little cathartic in a way, a way to couch it. I mean, what are you talking, obviously, it's the fucking greatest. You get to say all these horrible things. By the way, how about, I wasn't even gonna bring this up, but it just hit me, Marjorie Taylor Greene, first of all, she said she was watching

Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is already kind of, oh, you watched the show, she said she was watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is already kind of, oh, you watched the show. And then she got upset because she thought you painted people in her state or in the South as racist or whatever, I'm paraphrasing, so I don't know her words. But weren't you kind of blown away that she even watches your show? I was pretty surprised by it.

But it was just about a law that exists in that state. Right. Exactly. Where you can't give people water or food or when they're in line voting. It's just outrageous. It's so unbelievable. It's so stupid. It's so great. Yeah, I remember when I heard about that law, I wrote it down in my notebook. And then I knew I was going gonna, you had to use that.

The whole season is like kind of around that, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. So then Larry, so the show has had this incredible, long, successful run. You've brought it to this beautiful conclusion. I'm not gonna ask you what's next, but I would imagine that you're good, right? You've worked your nards off for however many years at a really high level, accomplished probably 10 times what you thought you would accomplish. You feel satisfied.

you feel satisfied, are there areas in your life that you would love to try to find equal success in, or other areas of the business, or different industries? No. No, you're good. You're all set. Any other industries you wanna get into? I'd love to be an offensive coordinator for an NFL team.

That would be my dream job. Very offensive coordinator. But truly, you do love football, and specifically, do you know about plays and all that stuff? No, I don't know anything about it, but I feel like I could get at it. Yeah, I know nothing.

But I feel like if I studied it, if somebody took me under their wing, I feel like in a year or two, I could design, I feel I could design great plays. It's a creative endeavor really when you think about it. From what I understand, if you just play Madden, you really learn quite a bit. So maybe try that, gets yourself a playstation.

Oh really, oh no, I've never done that. Could you imagine Larry David on the field just calling shots? Yeah, throwing his headset. With the little headset, screaming into that thing? I honestly feel I can do it. You'd say, you'd just be yelling like, just throw it and then catch it.

How hard is it? What team would that be? Would that be the Giants or the Jets? Well, you know, I'm a Jet fan. I'm also a Giant fan, but I'm more Jets than Giants. When Joe Namath came in in 1965, I really took to him and so I became a Jet fan. Larry, you know, when we were working together,

I asked you the same kind of thing Jason was asking. I'm like, why are you ending? Why are you stopping the show? And you just said, look at me, I asked you the same kind of thing Jason was asking. I'm like, why are you ending? Why are you stopping the show? And you just said, look at me, I'm 76 years old. Look at me. What do you mean? You're in incredible shape. I know the way you take care of yourself.

You eat great, you exercise, you're out there every day. 76, when's your birthday, by the way? Quick, July 2nd. Do you hate, by the way, do you hate birthdays? You hate holidays? Well, I hate, you know, it becomes a job returning the birthday emails and the texts. I agree.

It's a bit of a job. So yeah, I don't like it. I really don't like it. You know what I don't like is when people sing happy birthday to me. I don't know what to do. It's the worst, like, minute and a half. All you can do is make a face and shake your head.

Yeah. It's a weird. Wait, a half. All you can do is make a face and shake your head. Yeah. It's a weird. Wait, what about all the other holidays? I get the birthday thing, it becomes a job. I detest all holidays. Detest them. Not one. Not one.

There's not one holiday that I like. Wait, what about? I particularly hate Halloween. I hate Thanksgiving. I hate Christmas. New Year's I can stand, I hate Thanksgiving, I hate Christmas. New Year's I can stand because I know that the whole thing's gonna be over soon after that. Yeah, but you gotta stay up late.

No, I haven't stayed up past 12 and 15 years. Why Halloween? Because you gotta dress up. The costumes, the kids, the bothering, you know. You're knocking on the door. By the way, my house is... My house is in darkness on Halloween. Of course it is.

All the lights are out. Walking around candles. Nobody knocks on the door. We put a sign out that says, sorry, no candy every single year. So they just keep walking. Mary, you could probably get away with putting a sign that said go fuck yourself They'd fucking build you a goddamn monument, I'm still really grinding on this Yeah, I remember I've seen you at Conan's Christmas party a couple times

And it's great. Yeah, but and that's that's a do you like going to parties? Well, that's that's kind of like it's not a dinner party, but they served great, and that's, do you like going to parties? Well that's kind of like, it's not a dinner party, but they serve great food and stuff, but I imagine you don't like to sit down at dinner parties, or do you? The thing about the dinner party is you don't know who's going. That's right.

And that's what really bothers me about it, that it's such a fucking secret as to who you're inviting, and then you show up, oh, you're here. Oh, oh, oh, hello, you know. Who needs that? Tell me who's going and I'll see if I wanna go. Why can't I know? I should have a chance to educate my decision

about the way I'm gonna spend my night. Exactly, and all of a sudden, then you're spending two and a half hours. Right. With a stranger, you've got nothing to say to them. Right. Like, if you're not going to go to the beach, you're going to look at the weather, and if the weather's rainy, you're not going to fucking go for two and a half hours, right? Exactly.

That's right. I don't get it. I don't get it. So, a couple of weeks ago, I was invited and I asked. I said, who's gonna be there? And offense was taken, okay? And I didn't go. Good, smart.

Because you found it, because they told you? They told you? No, they didn't tell me. Oh, okay. Do you throw dinner parties? Me? Yeah. Have I ever said, let's have a dinner party?

Or let's say you have six, seven, eight people over. Would you then tell the other people who's coming? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. I'm golden ruling it. Yeah.

I'm not trying to trick people over to my house. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm golden ruling it. I'm doing unto them as I want them to do unto me. I'm with you on that. I get kind of offended. These guys know, like, if you invite me

to a one-year-old's birthday party, I'm fucking mad. I'm like, don't invite me to a one-year-old's birthday party. That's outrageous. I'll go one step further. Don't invite me to your wedding. You know, the wedding's a nightmare. Don't invite me to your wedding on a weekend in the summer?

A summer weekend? The bar mitzvah's even worse than the wedding. Worse. Those don't adjust. No, but my kids go to the bar mitzvah's because that's where all the makeouts happen. Yeah, just the service. Yeah, you just come to the service, not the party.

No, but anything to do with it, they're just intolerable, top to bottom. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot go. Oh, and you gotta bring a check. Yeah. We'll be right back.

This episode of Smart List is brought to you in part by Skinny Pop Popcorn. So I eat Skinny Pop all the time. Scotty and I will have movie night. We'll pop open the Skinny Pop and we'll put it in a big fat bowl and we'll eat pretty much the whole thing because we can't stop eating it.

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Shop Skinny Pop now. From Wondery, this is The Spy Who. This month, we open the file on Oleg Leleyn, the spy who saved MI5. Lenin's actions changed the course of the Cold War in the 1970s, a Russian who defected to Britain after being caught in a love affair that shook the world. His actions triggered the biggest removal of spies by any government in history. It's a story of an overstretched security service in need of a win and a covert plan to bring catastrophe to Britain's streets.

Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts or you can binge the full season of The Spy Who Saved MI5 early and ad-free with Wondery Plus. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankopan. And in our podcast Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we delve into the life of Alan Turing. Why are we talking about Alan Turing, Peter?

Alan Turing is the father of computer science and some of those questions we're thinking about today around artificial intelligence. Turing was so involved in setting and framing what some of those questions were, but he's also interesting for lots of other reasons, Afro. He had such a fascinating life. He was unapologetically gay at a time when that was completely criminalised and stigmatised. And from his imagination, he created ideas that have formed a very physical, practical foundation for all of the technology on which our lives depend. And on top of that, he's responsible for being part of a team that saved millions, maybe

even tens of millions of lives because of his work during the Second World War using maths and computer science to code break. So join us on Legacy, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And we're the hosts of British Scandal. In our latest series, we're visiting one of the rockiest sibling relationships ever. Okay, so I'm thinking Danny and Kylie. No, no, no, I'm thinking Anne Boleyn and the other Boleyn.

No, no, Barry and Paul Chuckle. No, it's Noel and Liam Gallagher. Now these two couldn't be more different, but they're tied to each other in musical dependency. Despite their music catching the attention of people around the world, Liam's behaviour could destroy their chances. However, their manager saw an opportunity to build a brand around their rebellious nature.

It's got fights on boats, fights on planes, fights on land. They just fight everywhere. If you like fights, you'll love this. To find out the full story, follow British Scandal wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen early and ad-free on Wondry+, on Apple Podcasts or on the Wondry app. All right, back to the show. So I wrote a bunch of like, quite, I want to do like a speed thing with you because I wrote what you hate that you're going to introduce a new format here. Just one word answer. You think Larry wants to do the speed? We've never done a new format here? Is this just one word answers?

You think Larry wants to do the speed? We've never done a speed. Why are you doing it for Larry? It's just a terrible idea. Terrible. Yeah, make Larry the monkey. Oh, Sean's upset. Okay, Sean, do one speed thing.

One... Go ahead. He's worked on it with Scotty all weekend. No. Let's hear it. No, no, no, this is gonna be fun. No, it's not gonna be horrible now. What about a stage story, Larry? What about when he went to Broadway? Oh, there you go. Let's do that. No, no, no, this is gonna be fun. No, it's not gonna be horrible now. What about a stage story, Larry?

What about when he went to Broadway? Oh, there you go, let's do that. How about that, Sean? Larry, I saw your show on Broadway, you didn't see mine. I loved it though. If I had been in New York when it was on, I definitely would have got it. For six months.

For six months. I was gonna fly to New York? Yes, I flew to New York to see yours. Who asked you to? I didn to New York to see yours! Who asked you to? I didn't tell you to do that! I would have dissuaded you! I would have said,

Are you nuts? I don't want you to come! That's what I would have told you! And you should have told me the same thing! Like a good friend, yep. Now tell me, I did see that show and you were fucking great in it. It's so nice of you to say that. Wait, which one was this?

Bring it back down. Which show? Something with fishes. It's fishes. I you to say that. Which one was this? Bring it back down. Which show? Something with fishes. It's fishes. I'm on the fish. It was called Fish in the Dark. Fish in the Dark. Fish in the Dark.

Yeah. But I thought it was great and you told me that you didn't love the experience of eight shows a week. No. Did you not know that that's what you were getting into? I'm not shocked by that. How'd that sneak up on you, Larry? Yeah. I don't know. It was the dumbest decision I've ever made in my life.

Have you spoken to that agent since? It was my fault. I'm the one who agreed to it. It was my fault. I didn't write it to be in it. Right. I got talked into it by the producer. Wow. Yeah. And you hated it. How long was that run?

The first show was February 4th. The last show was June 9th in 2015. Wow. Wow. So 144 performances. How many months is that? What are you writing again? February, March, April, May. Yeah, it's five months. you do again? February, March, April, May. Yeah, it's five months.

You dig that? Sorry. February, March, April, May. Four and a half. Sean, how many did you do of Good Night Oscar? Six months. Oh no, I did five months in New York and three months, or two or three months in New York.

But how many performances? He knows his number. He knows his number. You don't know? I don't know. How many shows did you do a week? Seven. Oh.

Yeah. That's better than eight. I got a moment to rest for a second. One less. Yeah. But you had a heavy lift in that. You were driving the whole thing. Yeah.

Yeah. And you hated it. Never again. It was boring. Doing the same stuff over night after night after night, I found it boring. Do you have any funny stories? Didn't you get hurt once? Did you lose your voice ever? No boring. Do you have any funny stories? Didn't you get hurt once? You lose your voice ever?

No, I don't have any funny stories. Okay, good. Did you? I did notice that the- Great question though, Sean. Thanks. That it becomes so rote, and there's no creativity at all after you do the first 10.

Right, I understand. You're just doing the same thing over and over again. It's kind of fun though to find new things, to try new things that are so small that it makes the scene better. Okay, I tried something new once. Oh, I guess you do have a story. And I got so thrown by it, the whole system broke down and I forgot the next line.

Oh no. I looked a different way. Instead of looking to the right, I looked to the left and all of a sudden, it all went askew. How'd you get back on track? Did somebody whisper something from the wings? No, I realized where I was finally, but that was the last time I tried anything different. Yeah, I was doing a play and this guy was carrying a briefcase in one hand and right before we went out,

we went out at the same time, he said, God, my hand hurts from carrying the briefcase the same way. I go, you should switch hands. He goes, oh. I go, but don't do it tonight. He goes, no, I'll do it. We walked out and he forgot every line.

Oh my God. Yeah, that's exactly the story. Exactly what I'm talking about. I got it, I understand. That's wild. Right, those neuro pathways are dug so deep based on. Larry, what do you do when you're not not doing your show anymore and you're not doing stand up?

What do you, I know you like to play golf, but is there anything else that you like to do that you have any sort of stupid hobbies or anything that you do to occupy your time that people wouldn't know? No, not really. No, nothing. Nothing, what do you watch TV?

What do you got cable news on? I do what everybody else does. I read, I watch TV. Yeah. What do you read? These guys don't read. No, I don't read. Do you read nonfiction or are you re-reading stuff

about World Wars and things like that? Or you like romance novels? Romance novels? Yeah, you know, kind of fun. Do you read any spy novels? You get into that shit and anything like that? I read a great book about the spies in England. I forgot the name of it.

Sorry, I apologize. I'm so sorry. We'll be cutting this, right? We'll cut that. I probably read it. So I love at the beginning of this interview, you were like, I kind of regret being here. And then on my next question, I read it. I probably read it. So, I love at the beginning of this interview, you were like, I kind of regret being here. And then my next question, and my next question was going to be, well, what else would you

be doing? And apparently the answer is nothing. Reading a magazine. He'd rather be doing nothing than talking to us. I love that. I have a quick before we let you go there. I have this very quick, funny little thing that happened between me and you I'd love to get you to your speed round though No, it's too late. They were it was gonna be hysterical, but that's too bad

So listen the the I it's the I love you story outside of HBO I don't know if you remember this I asked you to do a show a long time ago That I was producing and you graciously declined because you're not afraid to say no. And then I didn't see you for like a year or something. And then I was at the HBO building and I was waiting for an elevator, an HBO building in Santa Monica, waiting for the elevator. When the door's open, you were there.

And the first thing you said before I even said hello or anything, the door's open, you just go, I'm sorry. I just don't like those kinds you just go, I'm sorry. I just don't like those kinds of shows. I'm so sorry. They're just, they're not for me. I just, I'm so sorry. You're great, I just can't do it.

I go, I'm like, don't worry about it. I don't care. But I thought it was fascinating you hung onto that for over a year. And then when we were done chatting, I said, you know, you don't have to ever worry about anything like that, Larry, you know, it's no big deal. And don't worry about it.

And you said, okay, and I said, I love you. And then you said, yeah, I don't do that. I don't do that, I'm not gonna say that. And then I laughed and you walked away and like two minutes later we said goodbye. And way in the distance you were getting your car and I'm still at the elevator and you walked away and like two minutes later we say goodbye and way in the distance You were getting your car and I'm still at the elevator and you go You old soft that was real sweet, yeah, don't let's cut that soon

Okay, sweet Larry. Sweet Larry. We don't want that out in the public. No. We're gonna let you go. Real quick speed round, Sean. I was gonna add... Fucking go! Oh, it's on a computer? Did you AI this?

I wrote him down last night. What is it? This is like a Rorschach thing? I don't know who that is. Would you rather be subjected to someone showing you pictures of their kids for an entire afternoon or lose a foot? Do you ever pick up a dinner? No, that's not, that's a,

do you ever watch Shark Tank, by the way? That's a good question. Yeah, it's a very good question. But of course I need the foot, so. You need the foot. Right. I could play golf without the foot. Oh, would you rather wear only uncomfortable shoes

whenever you go outside or comfortable shoes 24 hours a day and can never take them off? You can never take the shoes off? You mean even when you're sleeping? Yeah, showering, swimming, things like that. Now listen, what about this one? Would you rather live without the internet or live without air conditioning and heating?

Easily, that's such an easy question. What do you think? I'd rather live without the internet or live without air conditioning and heating? Easily, that's such an easy question. What do you think? I'd rather live without the air conditioning and heating. I'd rather live without the internet, even without the air conditioning. I hate the internet. What's something that you just recently realized that you were embarrassed you didn't realize earlier?

What's that? It's bad. What would the world be like if it was filled with male and female copies of you? That's the last one. I. What would the world be like if it was filled with male and female copies of you? That's the last one. I think it would be a much better place. Wow. There you go. That's the only one we're keeping. Good answer. Larry David, you're the sweetest. I had the best time with you on your show. Thank you for being on this show. And uh, sure be your enthusiasm. The final, is it called the final frontier? What's the name? Is there

like a subtitle? No, it's just a crew. I don't think so. I think it's called That's Enough. That's Enough. That's Enough. Yeah. I like that, yeah. That would be a nice Larry David,

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's very good. Yeah. I'm looking, Sean, I'm really looking forward to people seeing you on Curb, because you're fantastic in it. Well, thank you, thank you for having me're fantastic in it. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

I loved it. It was so fun. Boy, we had some good laughs. Will and I are happy to be involved in any of the reshoots. Or promotion. Or promotion. Or additional photography. We'll just do promo for the.

We'll just do the junket. Yeah. Hey guys, this wasn't as awful as I thought it was gonna be. Hey, thanks man. That's one of the best reviews we've ever had. Did you have more fun here or on Morning Joe? I was so excited when I saw you on my favorite show, thanks man. That's one of the best reviews we've ever had. Did you have more fun here or on Morning Joe? I was so excited when I saw you on my favorite show, Morning Joe.

Was that, was it great? I was so jealous you were on that set. Yeah, they're great. I want to go over there and say hi to those guys. Do you still golf, Larry? Oh yeah. You do? Not today. It's rainy. Too wet today. Do you see these guys there ever?

We've played. I do. I see them out there. Yeah. We've never played. You guys are... We're going to play together one day. I'm off until October. I'm around. I played over at your club the other day for that, for the pro-am they did.

Yeah. I don't even get invited to that. Well, we'll just go ahead and won it. Come on. You won it. You won the pro-am on Wednesday. What? Yeah.

You had three birdies. My team did. Yeah, I did have three birdies. Who did you play with? I played with Sebastian Menescalco, and who else did I play with? And with Jeff Azov. And... Who was your pro? With Sam Burns. Wow, really?

Yeah, and he was great. Sam Burns went low that day, and Jeff Azov is great, as you know. He plays at your club, he's terrific. He's a club champ and then uh Sebastian um forget about it and then um I mean just to put it in terms that he would understand. Don't you find it curious that I'm not invited to play in that Pro Am? I find it very curious. How are you not invited to play at the Pro Am? It's your own club and you're a huge star. And then I'm there. Fucking ding-dong. Canadian asshole.

Canadian moron gets invited. How are you not? They're trying to go international. Anyway, well, Larry, we'll get out and play some day. That'd be good. And I'll show you around your own club and where to hit it and stuff. What's your index? I'm a 10.8.

Oh, you're not terrible. You're much better than I am. No, you're right around there, Larry. No, no, I'm not. This Bateman character, he's got a little bit of a swing. You know, he shot a 70 at Bel Air two weeks ago. Wow. Can you believe that? It scared the shit out of me. Wow. 70.

Wow. That was the last round I played and I won't play again until October. Or I'll probably shoot Oh, yeah, I'll shoot a hundred and five just working. You know, I'm still out here humping, you know trying to dance as fast as I can He's going to New York to work. He's back here this week. But what are you? What are you doing in New York? I'm doing some crime drama thingamabob. That's why I'm growing out all this crap Nonsense, what are you playing a cop or I'm playing a loser right crap beard and hair and all this nonsense. What are you playing? A cop or...?

I'm playing a loser, right? Look, how am I doing? Yeah, wow. You didn't need to grow out the hair and the beard for that, dude. Hey! Larry, I miss you. I'd love to have at least some food with you soon. Please say hi to Ashley. You're very nice to be doing this today with us. That was very kind of you. Very, very cool.

I don't know what to say to that. We're big fans. It should be, and I know you hate it, and not to embarrass you, you've done so much great stuff in your career, and for guys like me, and I can speak for these guys, it's a thrill. Honestly, you're such a funny guy,

you're such a funny writer, such a funny performer, and it's inspiring to be totally, again, not to be on the spot, you don't have to respond, but it's great, and we look up to people like, you know, to you and what you do, I think it's awesome. What you do is not easy. One of my faves, yeah. You make it look very easy, and people need to know that it is not easy. 100%.

They'll say, oh, he's playing himself. Guess what, guys? Not simple, incredibly talented. Thank you. And I know it's not, and sometimes it's not cool in comedy to pay those kinds of compliments or whatever, but it is true and you are definitely an inspiration. So thank you for all the awesome stuff you've done. You're very, very nice to say that.

I wish I could take it in. I know, you don't have to. You'll think about it again right when you're going to bed tonight. A little grin. A little thought bubble. Alright guys, see you. Thank you. Larry, love you. I love you.

There it is, you got it. He's great. I think I really do love that man. I just love being around him. Yeah, his deepest, darkest secret is that he's a sweetheart. I know. Such a sweetheart, yeah. I met his wife, Jay, you know his wife, Ashley?

Tiny bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I met her once, she's so sweet. Oh, I met her one time. Yeah, they're a lot of fun. I like them a lot. Yeah, he's so, like Will, you know, like Will was saying, it's like he's one of the greats, you know?

And that show's been on for 20, what did he say, four years, 20-some years? I really, honestly, genuinely would love to be on a set with him. That would be really, really rewarding. So fun. But, he said, I missed my chance. I gotta cast him in something.

He'll do other stuff, He'll do other stuff. He'll do other stuff. Maybe this was it. Maybe this was us working together. This was the beginning and the end of it. He legit did say that, how come you're never on? And I was like, what's your show? You never asked me, so.

Yeah. Do you ever say that when somebody comes up to you and asks to be on Smart List and you say, yeah, why haven't we had you on yet? And meanwhile you're thinking, you're not gonna have him on? Yeah. Yeah, see, it happens. I guess. It's tough.

I know, it's tough to hear the truth, I guess. But he has his legacy, or like, he can always say he has one of the greatest shows in the history of American television. Two, two of the greatest shows. The Seinfeld show, and now this one. And he's only done two. And he's only done two.

Well, except for the Godfrey failed pilot. But we won't talk about that. You just brought it up. Well, but he's not even two for three. Because it was just a pilot never aired. So he's at 60% now. Now he's at 66%. He was, I guess, second ago, he was batting 1,000.

And now he's still all the fame. Only been on two television shows and they're both probably in the top 10 ever in the history of television. All three, all three. The Gilbert Godfrey thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway. I know, he is so incredible. He's so fucking incredible. And I do mean it, apart from that, not only did he write himself license to do what he wants, right? In terms of his behavior and being as cranky as he wants in a way that is really, you know, invokes a lot of jealousy in me.

But also he got paid really handsomely to do that. I don't think so. I think the story is that he deferred all the money because he just did it for the art. He never cashed those checks. Did not get a dollar from Seinfeld. No kidding. Yeah, he just loved it.

Just love being there. No kidding. Yeah, we should call him back. Yeah, I just loved it. You know, seriously, somebody told me that and they promised me that they are aware of this information and they can prove it because they have an alibi. Bye! Bye!

Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!

Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Smart. Less. SmartLess is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff. Smart. Less.

Guys, Jason had to scoot very quickly and apologize profusely for not being here for this little thing that we're about to do, which we're really excited about. He's missing the party. He's missing the fun. He's missing the party. Yes. He does feel really, really bad. Yeah.

But we have a couple guests with us today for a super quick plug for a new Smartless media show called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. We can't wait for the show. We're super pumped. One of the hosts is a friend of the podcast, has been on before and actor filmmakers made us laugh for literally years. And his partner in crime is a woman

who we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet. And sorry, and figuratively years. And figuratively years. You said literally years. And figuratively years. But literally years. At least me. And a woman who we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet

who will be a friend of the show after this little chat and giggle. She's a brilliant writer and producer of one of the all time greats This American Life. Love that show. Willie, let's say hello to Johnny Knoxville and Elna Baker. Okay, I'm gonna say hello.

Hello. Well, hello. Hi guys. This is so exciting that you're here. Tell us about the show. I can't wait. I mean, I know about it, but tell everybody else about it.

Yeah. It's a show about people with more balls than a bowling alley. As people who've achieved great things while thumbing their nose at naysayers, established thought, failure, personal safety, and gravity. Yeah, I love that. I love the press release that says, for people who have done things that have never been done

until someone did them. Yeah, that's pretty good writing, huh? Yeah, it's pretty good. And I will say, Knoxville, you've got some history with this. You've obviously spent some time in between, over the years doing shit that other people won't do, stuff that seems really scary and gnarly.

Yeah. So I can see it, but Elna, how much of an appetite do you have for doing shit that you didn't think people could do? I mean, to an extent, I mean, I grew up Mormon, so I wasn't allowed to do anything. And so, like, for me, I guess, it wasn't like being brave in terms of like jumping off a cliff, but it was like leaving a religion, giving hand jobs. Like, there were, you know, there were the things

that I had to figure out. That was the first thing. Wow. And that's why I joined. Well, that's what led you to leave, ultimately, one of the things, right? You were 28? Yes, I left at 20.

I had, I touched a penis for the first time at 28. Is that true? 28. That is true, yeah. It was touching the penis, the thing that opened the... Yes, it was. That was the gateway, penis was the gateway drug? The penis was the gateway, yeah. When did you have your first coke?

Coca-Cola like Coca-Cola Otherwise she's gonna say 8 a.m I was like a we were kind of Mormons who drank Coca-Cola But I didn't have my first coffee until I was 28 and I remember like being so afraid to order it just cuz I did So everything happened at 28 everything cuz I left at 28. Yeah, once I it, just because I didn't know how to say the word. Wait, so everything happened at 28? Everything, because I left at 28. Yeah, once I touched a dick, I was, you know. Yeah, tell me about it.

Same. Sean. Yeah, tell me about it. Catholicism, same thing. So wait, did you, do you still have family members in the church? Everyone, yeah, everyone is still moving. You have a good relationship?

Decent, yeah, great, yeah. Johnny, what about you? Well, I started with decent. I mean, I'd love to dig into that a little bit. You open with decent, I'm gonna take you word of. I realize they might hear this. One little relationship. By the way, if they're listening to this,

then they're lapsed, and then they're just as guilty as you are, and now the playing field is level. Yeah, but Johnny, what denomination did you grow up in? Catholicism? Oh, Southern Baptist. It was intense. Oh, that's right, I knew that. Yeah. That's right.

Was it hardcore? Well, I didn't realize it was pretty, how intense it was at the time. But, you know, it's not like the Pentecostals who handle snakes, but you know, Southern Baptist, you're not supposed to dance or, you know. But my parents didn't believe in... They weren't that strict, so... But if you... If you handle the Pentecostals, they could maybe be on an episode of Pretty Sure I Can Fly,

because if they're handling snakes... Oh, yeah. There you go. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying being so repressed makes you want to go take these risks later on in life. Oh, totally. I mean, that's one of the things that, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying being so repressed makes you want to go take these risks later on in life Oh, totally. I mean, that's one of the things that like I love about interviewing the different people we've interviewed is like I Remember this sports writer telling me that like all the greatest athletes had some primal wound That and that thing that happened in their childhood is what makes them like achieve or even try For sure and so many of these people that we've talked to

like you find out oh like you know Manny Pigg who you know you've seen on Jackass and who Johnny knows like I had no idea that like his father was killed by a firing squad in Cuba Like the origins of what made him crazy do these insane brave things? of what made him do these insane, brave things came from something really deep and real, or like Garrett McNamara, who's the 100-foot wave guy. He learned about his child. It's bonkers.

He basically, at one point, his mother was this hippie, but she put him in this cult. A lot of cults. A lot of cults, but the most memorable. He was in many cults? Many cults, but the sort of the most memorable. He was in many cults? Many cults, but the one they had to renounce all their possessions, he and his brother had to wear bed sheets. They just walked around, they had to beg for everything, they couldn't buy anything.

And it was just so humiliating to be walking the streets in Berkeley in these outfits begging for things. And these back stories are like what get them to do these things. Yeah, it's incredible. Johnny, have any of these stories inspired you to try something? Well, I'm a little slow on the uptake.

So I'm trying to not do things anymore. I'm trying to overcome my, anymore. I'm trying to overcome my You know Addiction to yourself dangerous Dangerous situations it did become an addiction. It must it must what is that? Was there a thing like was there like a common? Trait that you noticed in a lot of these people that you, other than the childhood, a lot of them came from difficult childhoods. Anything else that gave them that fearlessness? I think the, yeah, if there's a through line, people on the show, it's bravery and being colorful.

And these people are extremely determined. Very determined. Wow. And determined. Yeah, wow. And usually, I mean, like, it's complicated though, right? Because, like, you're talking about, like, adrenaline junkies, right? Right, right, right. Some are. Some, like, get in and then kind of become addicted, and then they're trying to accomplish something great,

but they're also, like, putting their... I mean, you're a perfect example, Johnny. Like, you... Put your life on the... Yeah, you kept putting your life on the line, But they're also like putting their I mean you're a perfect example Johnny like you Put your life on the yeah, you can putting your life on the line and then ultimately like suffered a traumatic brain injury So like there's this level at which like you're on the razor's edge of like admiring and also being like you guys should stop Sean wants to know and just ask you that I want to bear he doesn't want to bear himself. Can you get a traumatic brain injury from watching TV every night? You can but But look at me. I'm still here. Hey Sean Have you seen hundred foot wave by the way? No, you have to watch this so the good thing and it's by that guy

Garrett McNamara, I definitely told you about it in writing down what yeah watching watching what these big wave surfers do, not just Garrett, but all those guys, when I see those guys, when they're like, man, there's this storm coming to Portugal, to Nazareg, we gotta get there, we've got 48 hours, we need to get there, cause there's a fucking crazy storm, and I need to get on a surfboard and have a dude tow me in behind a ski-doo so I can get on the storm waves.

And I'm thinking like, I'm looking for the closest restaurant that's got a happy hour. I wanna make sure, what do they have on draft? I'm looking for the next Harry Potter movie. I'm like, crazy. But yeah, that's insane. So are you guys, is it fun? Have you guys been having a good time?

Is it like, it's gotta be fascinating to learn all these stories. They sound incredible. It's so fascinating. Yeah, I mean, just talking to Ty Stokes, who was on the Jamaican founding member of the Jamaican bobsled team, the real story behind that team

is so much more interesting than the movie. Cool Runnings? Yeah, Cool Runnings butchered it. Like the actual story. Wait, now you're telling me that the Disney movie Cool Runnings that was trying to capitalize on the Jamaican bobsled team, did it, was it true?

I'm sorry to take this away from you. Really? That's great. Cool story? Oh, it's an insane story. He got put on this team like a mere months before the Olympics started. They didn't have a bobsled, they didn't have a bobsled track.

They'd never been on ice? Yeah, they didn't have a place to train. They didn't even get to go down the, a bobsled down the, what do you call it? The hill or whatever? The track with a, like what, two or three weeks before the Olympics for the first time. Yeah, yeah How do they call you know this they they ended up training for money. They trained on daiquiris, but they would go How do they qualify anyway, you know what we're gonna listen to the podcast that yeah, we're gonna find we're gonna listen to it

Yeah, I can't wait. It's called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. It's Johnny Knoxville and Elna Baker together again. You guys make such a great pair. The show sounds so awesome. I truly can't wait to listen to it. It is available right now on whatever podcast platform you're currently listening to.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, Johnny and Elna. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot. we appreciate it. We're about to play a clip from Pretty Sure I Can Fly. Follow Pretty Sure I Can Fly on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Pretty Sure I Can Fly"] Ladies and gentlemen, Travis Mastrana. Everybody in this house is now standing up and cheering on the 199. Go Travis! Can you tell me the story of the double backflip? Because that to me was also, I mean, I got chills in that moment in the movie, but I would love to hear you tell me the story.

There's very few times in your life where something that means so much to you means so much to a group around you. And even more rare that it means that much to the world. I still have people tell me almost once a week, I get someone that still remembers where they were at that moment. You know, my grandma and all her friends watch it. It's live on TV. My mom was crying because she had known that, you know, I'm about 75% into the foam pit,

but if it comes around short, there's a really good chance of a broken neck or paralyzed or it was a really cool moment. Even up until you did it, it seemed like, was it really like, I don't know if I'm going to go through with it or not. And the reason, like we were just explaining, like you always say, I't know if I'm gonna go through with it or not and the reason like we were just explaining like You always say I'm in or I'm out the reason this was such a tough decision for me And I think the reason that got built up more Was because I was on the fence on this I have an opportunity to go out there and try a trick that I've been working

For for three four years, but I'm sitting third so I'm like if I don't do a double backflip I still get a medalip, I still get a medal. I still get paid, which is gonna really help everything else that I've been putting into rally. And is my goal to be a freestyle motocross rider or is my goal to continue on in action sports and to have a career that's gonna expand hopefully longer? And it worked out in rally. And I said, you you know what I'm both

Said I'm gonna land this trick and went out there and decided like literally last second played rock-paper-scissors with my redneck friend Hubert Wait you you the the deciding factor was a rock-paper-scissors Right before I went up there Hubert we went rock-paper-scissors I gave thumbs up to basically Sal and the guys and they're like, alright They raised the ramp and no one has ever done this before At that time I had done it to a sand pile in a controlled environment. That was a big step up So if you came up short or didn't make it it sucked, but it was yeah It's like yeah, it was a hard surface that day, right? It was just blue groove.

It was pretty much worst case scenario for me. We took the ramp that was already existing and then raised it on two by fours. And like it looked like something we built in our backyard for like, you know, when we were five years old. And it's like, you know, my dad's out there like strapping the ramp down and trying to get it so it doesn't move because if the ramp falls over, then I'm definitely gonna deep trap.

And so you're up there and you're about to go. Yeah, it was one of the coolest experiences ever. Got up there and the guy that drops me in, he gave me a thumbs up. He said, it's on you, take your time. And I looked around and every single person was on their feet. Entire sold out, Staples Center, all of my heroes,

you had Kevin Robinson, you had Chad Kegge, they were holding hands. I had Brian Deegan, all the militia was all down there looking. It was one of the coolest experiences and I remember inside my helmet smiling and when I dropped in everything kind of went to slow motion. Usually you get to slow motion if anyone's crashed a car

or been in a really bad, like where you think everything's going bad. I've never had slow motion where I took off and I can remember the smells, I can remember the sounds, I can remember everything was so vivid. And I came around on the first pull and I checked the landing and I remember thinking, as Trevor Jacobs said later, he's like, oh, you can't check.

And I'm like, oh no, now I'm short. And I whip my head back and I see the lights. So when you practice this trick, you know, in the foam pit, you have, you know, you got the sky above you and in the ground. But on this day, you've got blinding lights where you can't see anything straight ahead of you and then below you is kind of dark. And I just remember kind of just smiling again. I'm like, well, I'm all in.

I can't get out of this now. And I came around and like literally hit, couldn't have hit better. And I was just like, what the heck just happened? I dropped down and dropped the bike and I run up. And the first person there was just some drunk guy out of the stands that just overpowered the security and gave me a big hug up top. Like, I don't even know you, but yes, let's go. Oh, my word. Are you kidding me? How many times can you find the Holy Grail in one building?

A double backflip from Travis Pastrana. So that was pretty cool. I was at home watching it live and it was like, I had tears going down my cheeks like the end of Old Yeller because it was such an amazing moment and so memorable. Yeah, I was blown away. Is that, you think that's the biggest moment of your career or?

Moment that the world felt what I felt. You can listen to Pretty Sure I Can Fly early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. If you like Smart List, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.

Hey, listener, it's Jason Bateman. You know him for putting his body on the line in Jackass, but now Johnny Knoxville's bringing you the wildest stories from the bravest folks he knows on his new podcast, Pretty Sure I Can Fly. His new podcast in collaboration with us here at Smartless Media also features long time This American Life contributor, Elna Baker, as his co-host.

Together they have incredible first-hand accounts from folks who surf hundred-foot waves, ride 600 mile per hour rocket sleds, and wrestle crocodiles for fun. On Pretty Sure I Can Fly, Johnny and Elna bring you personal stories from unsung heroes that are part comedy, part adrenaline, and all heart. These are the inspirational Hold My Beer stories that will make you want to grab the bull by the horns, literally and figuratively. Follow Pretty Sure I Can Fly on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Pretty Sure I Can Fly early and ad-free right now on Wondry+.