SmartLess - "Mitch Hurwitz"

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

The ultra-hydrated Mitch Hurwitz (writer, producer, creator of Arrested Development) rolls on through, teaching us a variety of skills that range from recycling Post-it notes to writing comedy. Welcome to '4 Skeletons on a Podcast,' otherwise known as SmartLess.Please support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, welcome to smart list. I'm Jason. Hi, welcome to smart list. I'm Will. Hi, welcome to smart list. My name is Sean. Tell you what, I'm going to do the welcome to smart list and tell him Jason and then you just go Will and Sean. Hey, I'm welcome to smart. No. Hi, I'm welcome. Oh, that was real. Hi, I'm welcome to smart list. Hi, smart list. How are you? Oh, little smart list showed up today. He's crying. Well, goodness, smart list, smarty pants. I love both of my dogs, but I am not embarrassed to tell you or maybe I am embarrassed to tell you. I love them and love them and love them. I'll get my hands all over them, but I wash my hands immediately after I touch my dogs. Way to go. Because people who are like dog people and animal

people, they're not really, they're not really vocal and stuff. So way to go. Wait for the letters from the dog. You know, you should allow and this and that. What do you mean? No, no, we love them. I'm just preempting. We loved our dogs. But I went over to a friend's house the other day and these, these, these folks, they, they have the rule where you got to take off your shoes and you go in and I get that. I understand that. But their dogs are running around all over the place. Hey, Mitch, good to see you. Oh no, there's our guest. This thing fell off. Is that Mitch? It's the first time it's ever happened, you guys. Jesus, how embarrassing. All right. This is the first. Our, our Mr. Guest usually covers their camera and then the, the

person who invited the guest as a big intro, as a big buildup and then they reveal themselves. But Mitch has an old stack of post-its, I guess, that have not real good adhesive on them. Well, I erased them and I reused them. Well, who's guest is it? This is my guest. And you know what, Mitch? You know, introduce him now. They're listeners. No, I'm not going to, Mitch, introduce, Mitch, introduce yourself. Introduce yourself. Yeah. That's your penalty. Yeah. Hi guys. I'm Mitch. I obviously recognize you, Michael Bluth and Joe Bluth. And of course, George Michael Bluth. What a treat. No, no, no, no. No, it's Sean Hayes. No, but for, for the people listening, Mitch Hurwitz is the brilliant creator of Arrested Development. Welcome, Mitch Hurwitz.

Welcome, Mitch Hurwitz. I don't think the listener got that. Mitch Hurwitz is the, the wind beneath the creative wings of Arrested Development, the smartest, funniest man in all of Hollywood. Worst secret keeper in Hollywood, they call me. Worst secret, yeah. He's, that was the worst reveal in history. This is the worst opening we've ever had. And of course it's with Mitch. Well, let's, let's put our acting chops to the test. Okay. Let's hear, let's hear, let's take it. Let's hear what the intro would have been. Here we go. Here we go. Cover the camera again. I'm covering up the, I'm covering up the camera. Brand new post. Okay. He's going to cover the camera. Let's go back through it. And here we go. Action. Hey guys. So I'm really excited. I fell down.

No, you're going to wait for the intro, Mitch, wait for the intro. Wait till he says your name. Wait till, wait. Wait till I say no. Wait for the intro. I'm not an actor. No, clearly. We'll get into that. We'll get, don't. I'm not here. The point is I'm not here, guys. Okay. Hey, Will, who's your guest? Yeah. So guys, my guest today is, I'm really excited to have our guest on. You know, you love, you love the golden girls. I love the girls. Did you get, uh, you, we did not get the ghost of B Arthur. Okay. We, I immediately started to think, wait, who's alive? And who's, wow. Okay. Stop laughing, Mitch. You're not even allowed to laugh. Oh, wait, is the guest name Mitch? No, it's not. No. See, now you're blowing it. I know. But try again. So our first guest,

ah, fuck, it's our only guest. Uh, our guest today is a guy who started as a writer of many moons of, it's Mitch Erwin. He just revealed himself again. Would it be inappropriate if I were to bring in a guest? Yes. How about a new co-host for us? I, but here's, here's what should be noted. Every one of those times that we tried to recreate. No, there's no, there's nothing to note. Let's just get this over with. Yeah. What's the glowing, what's the glowing intro? Say all the nice things you were about to say about that. He wrote on, he wrote on golden. He started as a runner at Whit Thomas and ended up running golden girls. He did golden palace. He's written a million shows. And then in 2003, he created a show that gave both Jason and me a life beyond our wildest

dreams. Oh, please. He's an incredible writer. He's a phenomenal father and he's potentially the funniest person I've ever spent time with. And I'm lucky enough to call my friend the incredible. I can't guess who this is. Wait, wait, let me guess. Drunk on Emmy Award, Mitch Erwitz. And now I'm just going to mute and cover my camera and just let you guys go. Don't do it now. Don't do it now. No, don't do it. Do not mute. Oh, Mitch. Mitch, what are you doing on a Saturday? Well, you know, this is, I pre-recorded my part, so I'm free today. How did you know the questions? I wanted to look my youngest and I just thought, you know, I knew it was coming up in a week and I thought maybe I just get a week on it.

You actually do look very good. What do you've been doing? You look fit and hydrated. Yeah, I guess I'm hydrated. Yeah? Yeah, I've been drinking a lot of water since we worked together. I mean, I probably, well, it's going to sound like I'm bragging, but I probably drank about 15, 20 gallons of water since we last worked together. Oh, Lord. Yeah. That's actually not that much because it's been a minute. Is it not much? No, it's not much. Okay. Well, I know I am very thirsty. And one sitting? Sean, do you know that Sean sent flowers? Do you remember that you sent me flowers once? Oh, right. Because he thought you died or something? Was that what happened? No, no. I had, I was collecting flowers for a while. No, as I realized, as I told this story,

I realized that there's no good way to tell the story. He's a good flower sender. I will give him that. It was a congratulations for our work together. And Sean, I owe you a thank you for that. Is that true, Sean? Are you owe me flowers? Has he never sent you flowers? Well, honestly, has Sean never sent you flowers? Well, me? Yeah. No, is that something that he has to do? No, but I've sent his kids gifts and never heard anything. That's not true. That's not true. Nice try. Sean, here's, can I tell you one other thing? One other interaction we almost had. So it's 1998 and I'm trying to cast a show called Everything's Relative. And did I get it? No, you didn't come in. What had happened was... I did audition for it, but I didn't get past

that casting record, I think. God damn it. Hold on. I'm gonna make your call. Oh, here's Mitch's raise. Are you making the call now? This seems a little... Well, Sean's great. No, he is great. No, that show would be on the air. Okay. Right. Well, what happened was I could not cast this part and I just tried everything. And then I didn't know that you ever auditioned because I had said to the casting director, hey, there's a guy in a Doritos commercial that looks really funny. And I think he's the guy and they were like, okay, Mitch. Who was acting like he's into the girl. No, it wasn't the girl. It was you. No, I was acting like I was into the girl in that Doritos commercial. You look like you were more into the Doritos, to be honest. I was. Hey, Mitch, was that the

show that I auditioned for too? Yes. So then we finally cast somebody. Who'd you cast? We cast a wonderful actor named Kevin Rahm. He's been in Mad Men and he's been on this. He's been on Smart List about three times. Each time surprised a different one of you. You don't remember this. So we had finally cast it and it really had been a long process. And then they said, Jason Bateman will come in. And Jason came in and read and I remember thinking, shit, he's great. No. He's great. But I couldn't go back one more time. How about this? Jason will come in, but Sean's asking to come in. But was this the audition that when later, when you were casting Arrested Development and I was not right for it because I brought a lot of sitcom baggage with

me and you guys were trying to do something cooler than that, you actually said, no, no, I'll read him because I remember he gave a good reading for a show I was casting years ago. And were it not for that, I may not have been seen for Arrested Development or is that my own narrative? As I recall, you know, these things are so... Do you see the way I mean it about me? But I remember wanting you to come in because I knew how good you were and simultaneously being a little worried that they would just say, oh, we'll just take Jason Bateman because you had done a lot of pilots at that point. And I thought, well, but I want to read him and I want to, you know, I want to make sure it's right. But as you know, you came in and once again,

I mean just within seconds and I found the audition. You sent me that. If I showed this to you, well, I should show this to you next time I see you. Mitch sent me the videotape of my audition for Arrested Development. Wow. It's very touching to me in a way. It really knocked me out. Why? In what way? Well, because that's what I have on film, the moment. But is that the last time Jason was really Jason, like right before Arrested Development? Maybe that's what was so touching about it. It was like a real guy. Yeah, like a real boy. No, he came in and what's amazing, I have to show it to you. I wish we could, well, let's run the clip. Oh, shit. No, no, we're on a podcast. This is a podcast. We can't run it. We're not running

clips. It's a podcast. What the fuck am I doing on a podcast? That's a great question. What are any of us? So all that stuff about how I look, nobody can see me. They have to take our word for it. No, no, no. But they're taking it. They're taking it. You sound hydrated though. All right. I'm taking these teeth out. Hold on a second. Wait, Mitch, you seem like you love actors and actors love you. Do you love actors? Do you love working with the great ones and the difficult ones and the ones in between? I suppose I do. I'd love playing with creative people. And I just want to round out the story about Jason. Let's get back to that. Let him finish, guys. I just have to say it. I wish people could see it because what's so striking about it is there's Jason with all

his charisma and his understated talent and his unique focus. I mean, he has this thing that I really, you sell them seeing actors. He's just in it for the first moment. Money. It did seem early to negotiate. I was surprised that we went so quickly into that. You were like, did you like that? Did you like that? I can give you a deal on this. I can give you that. I can give you that all day long for a price. The start of the rest of my life. But he looks different. Your hair was long. You're kind of a little looser. You were playing the character. It wasn't as kind of uptight as Michael Bluthpeak came. We're all begging for that day back. Oh, yeah. We can't wait for Loose Jason to come back. Loose Jason, we've been waiting for since 2004. For Loose Jason. You know what I

remember going into that audition when I finally went to the network and Jason, you were there and I was, I don't know what kind of notion I had about who you were. Definitely you were a guy who'd been doing it a long time and you seemed like a sort of LA insider guy to me that like, you knew everybody. You knew the process. You'd worked a ton. I was a fucking nobody who was just trying to get a job. And I was like, that's, but you were such a, and what's amazing is the second you meet you, you're so warm. You're so giving and, and, sorry, we're talking about me or Mitch. You. Oh, so keep going. This is a perfect job for me to talk about you guys. I thought you were talking about Mitch. Well, Mitch made the mistake of saying to me, we're right before, right before I was going to go

into an audition for the network. And I remember as a Monday morning I had flown out to LA and he goes, you're going to get this. So listen, I go, don't say that. Or are you crazy? Well, it's what I said after it that was really horrible that you didn't get. He should not get this. No, that I still wake up thinking about it. He came out. I was, I loved him immediately, just like I love Jason. You know, I just, you know, Will? Will cut came out from that audition and, or he, I guess you left first and then I stepped out of the room and I grabbed him and I said, you got it. You got it. They love you. And then I looked over to the left and there were two more guys waiting. And one of them was Rain. Wilson was a great, I mean, he ended up doing okay.

Yeah. Had he gotten Job, he wouldn't have gotten the office and a longer run. Oh, the people that were there were all great, but they're, but you know how it is with casting. I often wish that actors could experience what it's like to be on the other side of that casting desk because, or in my case, couch or bed or it's a futon. We had a futon. We can't do that anymore. No more, no more, no more, no more. Well, you can with guys, right? Don't even joke about it. Oh, you can. No, you can't. Okay. And you can't even make jokes. Can I use sexist language? Yeah. If you, so you're saying if the actors could see the other side of the process, it would be less daunting? I imagine, I mean, you'd have to tell me, but I imagine for you guys early on in your career, these are all

fortunately, thankfully distant memories for you guys, but that, that there was a lot of preparation that went into auditions and then there was a lot of, you know, you're focused on yourself and a lot of self-examination and you get in there and you don't maybe do exactly what you'd planned and you feel like, well, there it is. I blew it. That's why I'm not getting it. Right. And when you're on the other side of that casting futon, you, you really like people come in and you immediately know that they're, they're right or they're not right for that particular character. And they haven't even started reading yet. And it's not about the talent. You haven't even seen if they're talented. Mitch, I remember when we, when you and I did this short lives show, Running

Wild, and you said to me before that process, you were like, we were going through the casting process and you said, wait till you, exactly what you're saying, wait till you see how different this process is when you're not on the other side was the first time I'd ever had been on that side of the, um, futon. No, it was more like a kneeling rug. And it was a kneeling rug because, right. It was a yoga ball. Why was I kneeling all the time? Anyway, the point is this, I thought you got the general, but, but you're right. And what struck me was that people would come in and people that I knew or that we knew collectively would come in and it was, we never, ever, ever, when somebody left, we never once went, that guy sucked. Never, ever, never, ever.

No, in fact, you're so focused on, I mean, I don't know that everybody's this way, but we certainly were. I mean, it's, it's maybe goes to the question of loving actors, but, you know, people are offering you something. They're, they're, they're offering you something from their heart and that they worked on and there's, there's need there too. So it's, it's, you, you so distinctly feel the privilege of that position. And it's such a temporary privilege. So it's not like you walk around feeling that way. But in that moment, you do. And the problem I've always had is I spend too long with the people who don't have a chance because I know they don't have a chance and I want them to have a good experience. So yeah, well, that's, that's the

difference between you and other people in your position who don't approach it that way and don't approach treating other people that way. That's why everybody loves you and you work and you're talented and everybody wants to keep going with you because there are some people out there that don't have respect for feelings. Sean, that's great. Can you, I'm sorry, Sean, let's do that again. And just don't be, you know what I mean? Like just bring yourself to it. Okay. I don't know who this character is you're playing. Okay. Are we still, did we cut or are we still? Oh, like, I'm doing it again, aren't I? I'm doing it right now as I'm, thank you. On this subject and all seriousness, and I think, I think, I think everybody in the audience, all three of them can, can relate

even though they might not be in the business, probably aren't, probably couldn't care less about the casting process, but could relate to this question, hopefully, which is you as a writer, I think everybody can imagine that they, that they would might write something and when you write something, you imagine what the house would look like, what the person would look like, how they would say a certain line. How do you enjoy or not enjoy the process of seeing your imagination come to life and, and how fair are you about assessing whether what you're seeing is different or is it wrong? What is that process? So interesting. It's all, it's all like, I probably in any creative process, probably what you guys do, it's all control and then lack of control. You know,

it's like, it's true left and right side of the brain because you're, you're kind of editing at all times, you're, you're managing your own expectations, and then you're also trying to let go and be in a flow. And for me, it immediately becomes our thing, not my thing. So it, so it, it lives as my thing in my head for a long time and maybe, you know, Michael Bluth looks like a young version of my father or looks like my brother or something and, and sounds like him. And then as soon as it's Jason, a different part of my brain is activated really. And now I'm trying to do, I feel like I'm trying to give you guys what will allow you to shine and will allow you to be creative and find it. I mean, it's not, it's not really that conscious. It's just that,

like, how crazy would it be to have Sean Hayes and not, and try to get him to talk like me? You know, believe me, I've tried. Nobody likes it. It's not as common as you think where that what you would assume is common sense that, well, now that it's become three dimensional and there's actually a physical face and a sound and everything that you would pivot and be able to adapt to that. I've found that some of the more uncomfortable times that I've worked is when I feel like I'm getting a note or direction from a writer or director because they're trying to make you do what they have always imagined it to be, as opposed to reacting to what you're bringing to it and consequently what the audience is going to be

receiving. But even that is probably more prevalent in pilots or in, maybe in films. Yeah. Like in television, so much of, it's certainly in comedy. In comedy, so much of it is, is the immediacy between the performer and the, sometimes the closeness of the performer to the person, because you just have to be able to access that all the time. I mean, I keep pivoting back to Sean because, you know, his character and Will's were both, they were both broad characters. And yet you brought something real from who you are, which is very different than Jack and very different than Job. Well, the Jack and Job, I mean, I think we could go out and sell that right. That's for sure. It's just happened.

Jack and Job. Is this show or? Okay, Job and Jack, we had to get Will on board. On ice. Sorry, it would have to be Will Ornette as Job and Jack. I do that. Well, I think you're just one of the guys. No, I'm saying Will Ornette as Job and Jack. That's how, you know. By the way, where do I sign? That sounds like a great deal.

It's great. It's one of the few parts where it's a two-hander, but you kind of get to be a third banana. And I think that could be a great opportunity to sign. Really just step back. Have you listened to the podcast? So, wait, I want to know, you're so infectiously funny and infectiously warm. I can't imagine somebody not getting along with you. Has there been difficult issues with certain personalities along the way that you had to figure out how to navigate yourself that you didn't know there was a side of you? Like, oh, I've never dealt with this kind of person, so I'm going to have to shift in this way.

I can't imagine you not getting along with anybody. That's what I'm saying. There were a couple of times, it was early on where I was working with an actor on a pilot. God, I want to say his name. You can't believe it. We'll give you half a beer. And everybody kept saying, oh boy, this is going to be difficult. You're going to have a hard time with him. And I somewhat cockily sort of felt like, no, I like the guy. We'll get along great.

And then after I was done shooting the pilot, they said, wow, that was really nice. He seemed to like you. He took a swing at the last showrunner. He took a swing at him. I might not have been so cavalier about the ease with which it was going to go down. I remember working early on with Jeffrey Tambor, and as we all know, a lot of what we've heard about Jeffrey Tambor, Jeffrey is a pussycat. And he, like anybody, is prone to emotional outbursts. But never, but I mean, he was never abusive or anything.

But, you know, he would, he was scary because he was older than me and he was, you know, a comedy God and everything. And I remember doing a show early with him. And the idea was, this was the same one that I was thinking of Sean for. It was something my father had done where he used to complain about my brother's complaining. You know, Michael, we got a, we got a straight, you know, we got to do, let's get out on a bridge in the car at some point. And I'm just going to take the keys and I'll just, I'm just going to throw them out over into the river. I said, I don't understand.

He said, okay, you know what, we'll get a boat. We're going to go get a boat and we'll go off to the coast of Dana Point or something. Then we'll get way out there and I'll just push the engine into the ocean. I said, well, what, what lesson could possibly accrue from this? And he said, well, I loved his response because he said, well, we're not going to be three skeletons just floating in the boat. I mean, something's going to happen. You know, we're not going to be just to end up on this bridge, three skeletons in a car.

You know, life goes on. You can always overcome something. And so I loved this idea. The idea of three skeletons sitting in a car. They couldn't figure out what to do. So, so the idea was, so I put that in a show and the boys, you know, is it, but they weren't 12 year olds and 14 year olds. They were like 25 year olds and 28 year olds and they're arguing in the car. And so Jeffrey Tamber is the father, throws the car into park and takes the key out and

throws it into the river and says, God damn it. I'm not going to put up with this anymore. I love you guys. You're going to stop fighting. And then there was some punchline about something else they needed to get to and they couldn't get to it and then he got hysterical. So it was just a little throwaway thing I wanted to get. He gets upset and he throws the keys.

And Jeffrey starts playing the scene. You know, he does that sometimes when he's crying, his mouth goes down. And he's like, I love you boys. And it's really, you know, like, and he's pounding on the dashboard. And, and, but it actually having a very emotional reaction. I mean, the actors, they're both in the back seat because I wanted to kind of infantilize them. They're crying. So there's like three, there's no skeletons in the car.

There's three weeping men, right? Different than I imagined. But, but it's, it's the scene is working great. And, and then a much bigger turn as you can imagine when he realizes at the end, oh God, oh God, what have I done? What have I done? I got to get to the whatever. Your mother's in the delivery room.

Exactly. That's what it was. It was like your mother and my girlfriend are together. So after the thing, I was like, that was great. And Tony Thomas, who I worked for at the time, who's Danny Thomas' son and, you know, he's been doing this for a long time, sticks his finger into my back and says, go tell him to bring it down. And I'm talking to three actors who understand what that means.

I mean, you've just got an actor who's really exposed himself. I mean, you can't, you can't just pull that back. You can't just, and, and, and I certainly don't want to be in a position of scolding somebody who's just opened themselves up in that way. Yeah. So I, that was an example of like, all right, I'm going to have to find a way to supplicate such that when I do get around to giving the note, it's, it's acceptable. And I, other than that one was for you.

We, okay, we have one that way. We've got that. So what'd you say? What'd you say? How'd you put your hands in the cage? So I, and, you know, he was big at that time, you know, he's like 300 pounds and he's a teddy bear, you know, but still I was brand new at this. So I had to walk out there and I remember I stood there for a while and he said,

ah, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? And, and the other actors were not helping because they were saying like, oh my God, that was the most incredible scene I've ever done in a comedy. That was incredible. And I said, oh, that was the one. That was it. We got it.

We got it. Wow. It's done. It's in the can. And then I took as long a pause as I possibly could and I said, hey, why don't we do one just a little lighter just for fun? And he said his teeth and he went stomping around the set. And I was like, I don't know what to do.

I stood perfectly still and I could, he was just embarrassed and upset and, you know, like stomping around and stomping around. And then I got to, I mean, he wasn't, he didn't yell at me or anything, but he just, you could tell he was really pissed off. So I just sort of froze in place. And then when he finally kind of came back to where I was standing, I said, it looks like I got the sense that he started to feel like, I might need a way out of this.

So I said, I just meant to play with the levels. And he said, oh, play with the levels. Shit. Yeah. We'll do that. I'll do that all day long. And I'll play with the levels. I'm happy to play with the levels. Yeah.

His humor, his humor and presence was so, was so interesting. I remember the first day on, on arrested when I, I was such a huge fan from the Larry Sanders show and, and I walked up to him and I said, Mr. Tamber, Jeffrey, Jeffrey's fine. I just so excited that we're doing this together. And I just really looking forward to the scene today and, and just, I guess, just have a great day. Yeah.

And he looked at me and he said, don't you fucking tell me what to do. I know it's a sense of humor. Yeah. That drag, it killed me. Yeah. I loved it. I laughed my ass off. I did a table read. I, Jason, I think with you many, many years ago.

And I think it was with you. It was a movie and it was a, it was a big table read. Maybe he's his sister. It could have been my sister. Maybe it was his sister, Justine. It might have been. And me and Jeffrey got to the door jam at the exact same time. And I never really met him.

That's the first time I met him. And got to the door at the exact same time. And he goes, oh, please, in order of billing. And he had me go first. Wow. I remember, I remember like the first season we were doing something and then I ended up, for some reason, he gave me his phone number

and I took it down and then he said, how happy are you to get my phone number? He's funny, man. Never winks. Yeah. That's so good. All right. Back to the show. Mitch, Mitch, Mitch, take everybody if you can.

A couple of things I want to talk about. You talked about working for Tony Thomas. You, you worked first at Golden Girls. Is that right? Yes. Well, I was a runner. We got to talk about that. I mean, it's one of my favorite shows ever. It's one of the great shows.

For Sean's sister, what does a runner do? You know, it's, it really is a fairly thankless, and like everybody. Just a short description because I want to get to the Golden Girls. Okay. Yeah. Just what does a runner do? When entertainment began, and I mean,

I love this concept of one human being reaching out to another. All right. All right, all right. I'm trying to go quick, Sean, but I just got to give it the context. The Lumiere Brothers. Okay. So, so runner, a runner basically is,

it's, it's at the entry level job on these shows, as you guys know, but I guess you're pretending you don't. And, and you, you know, use Xerox scripts and you, you deliver coffee. And I remember thinking there must be, this is a mistake. This cannot be what, you know, as I'd given people spec scripts and I'd,

I'd given a resume that I think even had some student body positions on there. Sure. I was padding a little bit. I see you were a treasurer at Estancia High School. Yes. Matter of fact, I learned a lot about responsibility. So, but suddenly I'm, I'm, you know, delivering coffee and I wasn't even,

like at the time I remember I had to go drive to Venice from Hollywood to pick up coffee at the Rose Cafe. And then I'd drive it all the way across town back to Hollywood. And then I'd hand it to the runner coordinator and he would walk the six steps into Tony Thomas' office and Paul Whit's office

and say, here's your coffee. Let me know if there's any problem. And I'll be happy to send somebody out and get some new coffee. And I remember thinking like, I'm screwed. I'm never, I'll be a skeleton. And then the runner from that time. Wait, Mitch, Mitch, at the time,

were you wearing, were you wearing a sport coat? Yes. Yes. So my father. You knew I was going to ask this. Yeah. That's, that was another good little piece of advice my father gave me because he, we were, he was very fit and I was a young guy. And so we were the same size sport coat. And he was a lawyer.

So we had all these like suits and sport coats. And so I would just borrow them. I just take them. And it was his suggestion. He said, you know, you want to create a mismatch. He knew David Geffen a little. And he always said, you know, David Geffen came along at a time when all the managers and agents

were dressing in three piece suits. And he came along and he was like an artist, even though he was the most killer businessman of them all. And, you know, at that time, everyone was wearing, it was kind of grunge was in and it was like torn t-shirts and stuff. And I was there somehow the audacity to wear a sport coat every day.

And it worked. It worked at Paul Witt about, you know, like maybe two months into a job that should have taken years said, you know, we've had our eye on you. Something about you. And I was like, I wonder what, I wonder what it is. This was Golden Girls.

You were a runner on Golden Girls. And didn't you end up being one of the head writers? If not the head writers. Yeah, I was especially right at the very end for the, the spin-off they did called the Golden Palace. So then how many years did that cover from, from entry level position to basically the boss? It was fairly quick for me.

It felt long. Five years, six, 12? Well, I did. Then I became a development executive. And that was fairly brutal for me because I was, I had been a comedy writer in high school. You know, I read the high school plays and I just, I always loved comedy.

And now I was reading, you know, really, at that time very hacky sitcom scripts because sitcoms were really hacky. Yeah. And I just was going down this executive path. So that was the downside of wearing the sport coat. It was like, this guy's got executive material. Did you end up writing a spec for Golden Girls?

How did that happen that you made that leap? I, I think I wrote, I wrote a spec. Yeah. So a spec script is like a sample script. And I had written a couple others. And so I wrote one for a show called Empty Nest before it was a show. It was just a pilot.

And, and that got their attention. And, and they just, I don't know, I, who cares? I think it's interesting. We do, we care. How many, I mean, I'm a huge fan of the show. So I think it's fascinating. How many years did you write on the show? So I think I was a writer like in full for the show

for the last maybe three years of it. And did you ever get, did you get to know the actors? Oh yes, very well. Yeah. And isn't it true that Estelle Getty, wasn't she the youngest out of them? She, I don't think she was the youngest. I think Ru was, but she was young.

She was probably 67 and I think- Playing the oldest one. I think Ru was 57. Oh wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was just so funny and clever

and we'd never seen anything like it. And of course the writing was brilliant. Golden Girls, the jokes, well the jokes were so good. There were so many jokes. There was so many training joke writing and it was, and they could make anything work. And, and I loved Bea. I had a great relationship with Bea.

People were kind of scared of Bea, but I, but she was, you know, it's, it's, this comment has been made before, but she was kind of- Mr. Arthur. Tough on the outside and soft on the inside. And, and Betty was, you know, sort of softer on the outside. And am I saying this backwards? No, no, you got it.

They both had soft internal organs. Their internal organs were- Those are medical conditions, Miss. Those are- They're medical conditions. And because of that dynamic between the two, did they, did they work together well? Did they collaborate?

Say whatever you want. It felt like a really good creative collaboration. You know, it was kind of like, there are often those things like, you know, John Lennon and Paul McCartney, where there's one that's a little harder and one that's a little softer, kind of a matriarch and a patriarch and,

and that, that kind of played out with them. But they were, they were really special. And, and my stuff, you know, it's been said before that like your style is formed by what you can't do. And sometimes it's by what you think you can't do. And when I started off there, I remember thinking, well, you know, these are experienced joke writers. I don't know how to write jokes.

I mean, I loved comedy and I loved things that were funny, but I didn't know how to write that, you know, eight word joke that, and that show was, you know, it's what we kind of emulated with the rest. And certainly, Will and Grace had this as well, you know, where it's like the setup is funny, the punchline is funny, the line after it is funny, the callback to the setup is funny,

the incidental line that somebody throws in is funny. And so it was really tough training that way. But all my stuff kind of became story because I think I felt like I couldn't write those hard jokes. I started, my stories were just really intricate and layered so that something would come up four times. Oh, so today's different. Kind of cummer.

There's a little, you just took a break from that kind of story telling today. Yeah, but Mitch. Now I'm just a ratatatter. Kind of to that, to that idea that it became about story. I think that one of the things that, you know, you can go back and watch shows that were big hits in the 90s or early 2000s,

legitimately great big shows that were funny at the time, that when you watch them now, they were so, I don't know, the jokes just seem to... Written, probably. Well, no, it's more that they're just two of the times. So they don't... Oh, I see, they're topical, you mean? Yeah, and then they just don't translate to today.

So you have, but what you've always maintained, and I remember, I don't know if you remember this, but I've learned so many great lessons from you, and one of them was that always be... I remember we were writing something, you mean Jimmy, in that very room that in which you're sitting right now. Yeah, right where I'm sitting, yeah.

And Mitch, you'd be sitting there at the computer, and we'd be pitching jokes. Jimmy Valli, great Jimmy Valli, and hilarious old friend of Mitch's, and partner in writing pal and just everything. And we would be pitching jokes, and you'd go, and even to your own jokes, like just the three of us just talking,

and you'd go, we'd laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and then you'd stop, and you'd go, yeah, but it's just, it's not telling the story. And you'd put it off to the side, you might put it in another folder, but you're like, we can't use that joke, even though it's the best joke that we had heard in the last three hours.

Yeah, and even though a lot of those jokes, you know, ended up in other pilots I did that you guys never found out about, but what I was trying to teach you was... But you know what I mean? Like that was... No, but it's true. I do think that everything is story in a way, and everything that, you know,

every laugh that you guys have ever gotten, I mean, there are ways to be funny. You can, there are family guy things where they're just non sequiturs that are funny, but you know, it's just much funnier to, you know, for instance, for Sean to find out that what his mother was betting on at the supermarket were the fiberglass horses.

That's story. But there is something to, like, there's a non sequitur, there's, you know, and then there's like, but this is about a character, and it's why, I mean, it's... Wait, no, Mitch, let me ask you something. We always ask people like, what were your comedy influences when you grew up, but are there comedy people that you're drawn to today

that what are you, like, what do you, who do you admire now? Who's out there now that you're like, wow, I would love to write like that, or I'd love to meet that person because they're a great stand-up or I like their show or something in the comedy world? You know, I always just like funny people. I don't even have a good answer for that.

I mean, there are people that I just find, and oftentimes it's people who can completely consume the character or subsume, or just be the character, I guess, is what I'm getting at. And it's why I always loved about what Jason does, that, you know, Jason played a character who was ostensibly a straight man on Arrested Development, but he was so much more.

He had so many flaws, and Jason was able to play him with all his blind spots and what he doesn't see about himself. And, you know, I think of like just other contemporary, funny people. Will and I were talking about Fred Armisen the other day, and Fred is so funny because he, again, it's like he just becomes this character.

And that's kind of a faction of story in a way. Do you see that what the public considers funny changing noticeably in the last year, in the last five years? And if so, has it affected the way you approach sort of breaking a story or a concept of premise for something funny? I feel like comedy has gotten less important out there. I don't know if you guys are...

Meaning it's sillier or it's broader now? No, that there's not as much of it. People don't need it. There's no comedy features. There's no comedy. I know. I think it's because there's been this big international movement and comedy typically doesn't work internationally.

I mean, in fact, we know that it does, but that people are always scared of it. And nobody... Well, here's Mitch, just to give it some context, which Mitch is kind of referring to, and certainly some of our friends even at Netflix will admit that, you know, you'd start to go in and pitch them shows

over the last couple of years, and they're like, well, we need that show to resonate globally, and we think that those jokes globally. So those jokes about the guy who... We had a show, this jokes about the guy who works in Utah at this thing, those aren't really going to translate. And it's like, the fuck are you talking about?

These are jokes. Jokes are jokes or jokes. Because comedy has to be specific, and it has to be really... It has to be. Yeah, but if it's reliant on something that is only known to the domestic audience, it won't travel,

and therefore they won't spend as much or anything else. Perhaps. I don't mean to call it Netflix. I mean, just everybody. I mean, that's an example. But I mean that that, unfortunately, is kind of what Mitch was saying, that there is this idea that...

Right, it used to be... It's almost like sitcoms got less funny for a while, because they were trying to appeal to so many people. They were... It was the lowest common denominator. Right, yeah. But don't you think back to what you said about... It seems like people care about comedy so much.

Don't you think, well, a large part of it is due to the pandemic. Sure, it was a little bit before that, but don't you think it's about to turn? Don't you think about... Don't you think people are looking for joy and laughter and anything other than just doom? Yeah.

I'll bet it's coming. I know they are. Well, disagree. I disagree. I know that people are looking for it. I don't know that the broadcasters are looking for it, because it went from lowest common denominator to being really specific

when Netflix and these places started out, and you could do these subgenres and these little interesting looks at lifestyles. And then now it has become... It seems really big. Even a show like Ted Lasso, which has a lot of laughs and everything, is really clearly designed and does it very effectively.

Have you seen Chad? To reach a lot of people. I saw an early version of Chad, which is great. So freaking funny. I know, really. Nassim Pedrad is from Center Night Live. Yeah. She plays a teenage boy,

and it's the funniest thing I've ever... It's hilarious. And it's taken them maybe five or six years to get that show made, because that pilot had been made four or five years ago. And do you think that they probably predetermined, well, we're only really our ambition for sort of audience size is only going to be X,

and therefore we'll price it accordingly, and let's just do it? Well, I think that... The pricing is part of the problem. I think things got really expensive. You know, when we did Arrested, we did it very inexpensively. And I remember...

I mean, we probably did it... Now, these numbers are huge by normal standards, but it was something probably like a million six or something to make an episode. Wow. And then right when we got done, I did a pilot at Sony, and it was like $4,500,000.

For a half hour? Yeah, for a half hour. For episode? Yeah, and we didn't go. I mean, it was just too expensive for... So that's been part of the problem. Well, would you rather... I don't know the answer.

Would you rather do something that is tonally specific, but for a lesser price than something that would give you a big check but reach a gazillion people? I kind of think the big check is not even in the offing right now. Right. What if you were like only the big check?

Yeah, oh, I would... Yeah, if there was... By the way, that would be choice one. Yeah, okay, so... Okay, choice one, only the big check, no show. I don't have to do anything. That's great. Choice two, big check,

easiest show I could possibly do. Do you think they'd make a rest of development today? I don't think so. I think it was... I mean, it was barely made when we made it. That's true. And it was because it was right at a cuss period where they were still going for the big audience.

I don't know how we got that on the air. It was really just the will of the people that liked it at the networking at the studio. And do you think that these sort of un-PC moments of humor in it would even be tolerated even by a niche audience today? No. That could be one of the reasons the comedy is challenged right now.

Yeah. That people are... I don't think it's necessarily wrong. I mean, there have been a lot of people have taken it on the chin for a long time and there isn't an appetite for making fun of people. But of course, comedy is just making fun of individuals, not making fun of groups.

And what you guys did on the show was always make fun of yourself. That's what I was talking about with blind spots. And Joe being full of bravado, but then in a moment later, just being completely fragile and devastated by some insult from his father. It's like actors don't like to do that usually.

And yet that's where all the great stuff is. I'll never forget you told me once that sort of the... Correct me if I got it wrong, that the recipe that you had in mind was that your job as writers were to make these characters as unlikable as possible and that our job as actors is to make them as likable as possible.

And the combination of those two things kind of allowed you guys to take these huge, what could be offensive swings, and then our ability hopefully to play ignorance or naivete would kind of give you the safe harbor to... First of all, I said that. You missed it and say that. Got it.

You might have said that. I said that. I believe that you said that because I have been credited with that before and it doesn't quite sound like me, but I think one of the things that I... The benefits that I had was that I knew like that in the DNA of the thing,

my characters were in the wrong. Like they... And they would get their comeuppance. But it was easier to have them be politically incorrect when the point was that they were in a miserable life condition and that they were in the wrong. So, yeah. So to that extent, I was trying to show,

okay, there's selfishness here and there's self-absorption and narcissism. But these people are... Entitlement. Yeah, these are people who are saying and doing things that are sometimes aren't easy to stomach or sometimes distasteful or sometimes way off, way out of bounds.

But what we're saying is, yeah, and that's what... Who these people are, that's what makes them so peculiar and strange and like... Yeah, they're not right. Yeah, they're not right at all. They're human beings. They're flawed human beings that are provincial

and scared and don't want to lose their entitlement, you know? Mitch, did you ever... You talked about writing when you were in high school and writing comedy and stuff and you made that decision to not go into acting. Was there a moment? Seven or a moment? That's a great question.

Well, that's a great question. And just for you other guys, because you're all trying to figure out who's the best host, that's the best question that's been asked. An unfinished question is even qualifying as the best. I know what he's asking. What he's asking is, why weren't you a major movie star?

And I'm going to tell you the choice that I made. Was there a moment that could have led to that? Yeah, I mean, I was less interested. I would have been... I don't know that I would have been considered an actor's actor. I think I would have been considered a major action movie star. And the reason I didn't go down that road... Mm-hmm.

Yeah, keep going. Quicker, faster. Well, okay, so quicker. So just the backstory is, there was an audition for the movie Taps. Sure. And my drama teacher wanted to send me to it. And I didn't...

The specifics don't matter. I think it was a Spanish class that took precedent. Well, let's talk about the specifics. But the end of the story is you didn't get it. Yeah, I didn't get it. I didn't go on it, but I also didn't get it. You didn't go on it. Okay.

Had I gone on it and gotten it, then look at me. I'm Tom Cruise over here. Who got the part? Oh, Tom Cruise got the part. Yeah, okay, okay. And Tom's great. Tom's great.

I have no problem with Tom. Tom's great. Tom's talented. And he does a different thing than I do. But you would have denied the world the talents of Tom Cruise. No one would have known who Tom Cruise is. Or did you not... Tom and I are very different.

He could have, I don't know, maybe would have written a funny sitcom about four bachelors or something that lived together. But would you have seen yourself doing, making some of the same choices that Tom did in his career? I would have made most of the same choices. I would not have made... As you know, I would not have...

This isn't quite professional, but I would not have divorced Nicole Kidman. I would have made that work. And for a very, very simple reason, I think she's very pretty. And I don't think you disrespect that. I don't think you just... Mitch, are you comfortable sharing with us

what you're working on next or what you are excited about? We're talking about... We're talking about our Mission Impossible 7. But what I would be working on... I'm sorry, what I would be working on or what I am working on? I'm missing the shit.

But it would be MI7. Yeah, yeah, MI7. I got it. MI7. Well, the six left so many open-ended questions. MI, he even calls it MI. Yeah, we've never done... They've never done a guy riding a motorcycle underwater.

So I think MI7 has some room to play in that space. Paddle wheels. Hey, Mitch, that question from Sean did get me thinking. And I'm going to go ahead and put you on the spot here on live podcast vision. What are the odds of Will and I ever working with you again? Are you working on anything that we could fit into?

I mean, it's just an apology. I just need the apology, guys. I mean, I can't do it without the apology. Oh, well, I'm sorry. Let me just give you a blanket apology. Why was that so hard? Any time you use it for anything you want. I mean, I would love to.

God, there's nothing I'd love more. I mean, that's one of the problems I was so spoiled by working with you guys and everybody on that show, really. Let's come up with a show right now. Let's have a little... So let's say, and Sean, you can be in it too. So it's three, are we brothers or are we coworkers? Sorry, hang on, hang on.

It's set in LA. Okay, it's set in LA because we have families. And are we brothers or are we coworkers? Mitch, are we brothers or coworkers? I'm going to say brothers and coworkers. Brothers and coworkers? Great, love it. Okay.

And you're physically very abusive with each other. And this is where we get into a little bit of the three-studies territory. So forgive me. Physical comedy. You're pokers. It's familiar to me. You're pokers and you're prodders and you're pullers and you're sloppers. I quit hustling around you, too.

You're disturbing my club. Sean, that was the most amazing Larry Fine. I can't believe you even discovered that you knew how to do Larry Fine. I didn't. I used to do a lot. Have you ever heard him play piano? I have no doubt he can do a lot of different things. No, I used Billy West to talk to me how to talk like Larry.

Oh, my God, that was... Because it's the same as Ren and Stimpy. He's the voice of Ren and Stimpy. And he said I used Larry from the three-studies to talk like Stimpy. So if you ever get stuck, just watch. But it was for... Do it, just do a little of it. Hey, I quit hustling around you, too. You're disturbing my coffee, bro.

Wait, no, do it. No, do it. And how about how Will transformed himself into a horse? Like, do a little of it. That's hard. Do a little of the horse, Will. Do the horse. I've been doing it.

I've been doing it. Oh, you have been doing it. This is the horse. That's what it sounds like on the show? This is the horse. I gotta watch that. Oh, yeah, I guess it is. Jason, you've never watched it.

When does Will get back? Can I talk to Will then? You've never... You've never... I stopped watching cartoons when I was, you know, a kid. Boy, that's a really tidy answer. That's really tidy. Hey, I'm waiting for a few hundred of them to be made

so that I can really binge it. Oh, is that what you're doing? Your behavior is diabolical. Your behavior is diabolical, Jason. Listen, Sean has never seen Arrested Development mentioned. He didn't want to admit it. I have. I've seen the first three episodes.

It's hard to get around to watching something, particularly that we always had this problem with Arrested that people kind of thought it was a smart show. It was, you know, critics trying to be nice. I'm not kidding. I laughed out loud. The reason why I haven't watched it is because I'm fucking lazy.

I don't watch anything. I read. I'm sorry. I read. I watch news stuff. I... What do you read? What do you... I'm curious.

What do you read? Right now, I'm reading The Mind-Body Connection. So, nonfiction you read mostly. I don't think Will reads a lot of nonfiction. I do read a lot of nonfiction. What about you, Mitch? Are you a reader? I am.

Fiction or non? Sort of both, but mostly nonfiction, I have to say. Mitch is a voracious reader. Mitch, one time, we were flying to London and he was reading that book. I remember us taking notes in it. He was reading the book about the... What is it?

The China... What was it called? The China Study. The China Study. And so, it's like, you know, we leave LA. It's a 12-hour flight and we settle down and I fall asleep. I sleep the whole flight and we're just pulling it. And Mitch is there and he's got his lights on

and he's like... And he's been reading. He's in the exact same position as when we took off from LA and he's been taking notes and he's like, Hey, by the way, did you know that we shouldn't be eating any meat and we should also only be eating legume that are grown in our own backyards. And I'm like, how the fuck is going on?

It really changed me until we were about like almost all the way to baggage claims. And I think there was some meat thing in pastry that we got a few of us. So you like that kind of stuff. You like... I do. And you know, neurology is everywhere right now.

Neurology is so interesting. You've always been into that though. That's been a big... That's brain stuff. It's... Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah.

And just... I love it. It's just responsible for everything. Even our notions of ourselves and... Well, and you know, our gut, it's our second brain match. I love this character. Yeah. First of all, you've been reading up on neurology for years.

Teach me something about neurology, Mitch, right now. No, I think this is... By the way, this is interesting. I think one of the things I love about Mitch, about the way that you write and the way that you approach characters and story is, you do read a lot about, not just about how the brain works,

but about how people work. And I think all that shit informs your writing in ways that you don't... You're not even necessarily conscious of. It might. The China study taught you anything. But no, but I mean, you do. You love that shit.

It's the kind of shit that you talk about. You'll constantly go, do you know that when people have a relationship with another person, that they have made a connection and you'll bring up something that strikes you, and I think it makes its way into your characters? I mean, that particular one was just a way of saying,

you know, include me in things. Well, be my friend. No, no, but you know what I mean. I could use a friend. I'll be happier. And that will make me happier. There is a level of intelligence that is just unbelievable with your writing.

Do you think that you gave enough of that intelligence to your offspring? I was talking about this the other day. This is a pivot to a new subject. I don't want to hurt anybody with whiplash, but I was talking to somebody the other day about nature versus nurture, and you really can't really conduct that study

inside your house until you have two children and you do have two beautiful daughters. And so do you see the like, oh, well, this one got a lot of this and this one got a lot of that. Are they, are they, are they, they're both out of the house now, right? No, they both been home.

They should have been out of the house, but they both been home because of COVID. So it's been kind of a blessing, but a blessing that I don't realize is a blessing. Like it's just something I know I'm going to look back on and think, God, I had that little gift. Were you enjoying the empty nesting?

And now, and now- We never got a chance to. Oh, really? Never happened. Yeah, we never had a chance. We never had a chance. But, you know, don't you discover, I think that the biggest illusion

is that these children take after us. I think they are just, they are just their own people. Oh, you really think that? I do, but it's an illusion. It's a really prevalent illusion. And particularly with traits that maybe you don't like about yourself,

that I, you know, maybe because I've finished in comedy or maybe just because I'm a jerk, I tend to like see flaws all the time. You know, I see flaws in people. I see, I see cliches that are used. I see behavior that, you know, and I can be very critical of that.

And then I'll see my younger daughter will have a really sharp, quick response about somebody struggling to get into a, you know, past a car door or something and say, oh, look at this. Here we go. Look at this. You know, I'm like, yeah, that's,

so it feels like that's from me. That's interesting though, because I never, I was thought about that like- That's wiring. I mean, listen, we know that negative experiences are far more powerful than positive experiences. And there's, you know, an evolutionary

reason for that. And the differential rate of those that survive that pay attention to negative experiences. And so, you know, you know, that you can influence a child for the worse. That's undeniable. Yeah.

Giving them praise and undue accolades is not that beneficial because- It's not. Evolutionarily speaking, the human body kind of like discounts those things almost immediately, right? Yeah. There's been actually a lot of studies

that I, you know, won't be able to quote here, but that about, you know, talk about things that are, that are unintuitive. You're not supposed to tell children that they're smart. Like smart is really not a great thing to tell a kid like, oh, you got that

right. You're really smart. They've done tests where kids that are told that are smart, like they're given, they take third graders and they give half of them, they give me each the same test. They tell half of them, hey,

you did well, you're smart. And they tell the other half, hey, you did well, you really work hard. You don't give up. Then they give those same kids a fifth grade math test, which they couldn't possibly finish. They don't have the skills here,

the tools. The kids that were told, hey, you're really smart, they give up on it much faster, almost 100% of people stop taking the things and say, this is stupid. I don't like it because they, they have something to lose now.

They, they have, I'm smart to lose. And the kids that weren't told that, but were told, well, you work hard, well, they tend to stay with that test longer and get some benefit from it. Is it kind of like I've been told I'm smart, so I don't have to try? Like I already did that.

I think it's probably more that you don't, I mean, I have a lot of this, like I worry about doing something that's not good enough. I worry about- Well, we're going to edit this. With, oh, okay, great, great. And who gets edited in for me?

But you can imagine that, that you would then go to take a language class or, or, or learn the piano or a skill that you can't be good at instantly unless there's just some alternate wiring that's going on that gives you that special ability. And, you know, you, you take three piano lessons. You say, this is stupid.

I'm not going to, I can't do this because you haven't been praised for your determination and your forbearance. You know, you've been praised for just already being able to do something. And we can't already do something. Yeah. Right.

Right. Yeah. You don't know anything till you learn it. Yeah. To your taught it. But I have to reteach myself that all the time. I mean, a lot of that has to do with, like, pushing yourself to be curious. I'll start a project and I'll think,

oh, this isn't going to be good, though. This isn't going to be good. Or it's too similar to something else. And I'll have to kind of shut off that voice and tell myself to be curious about the experience of this and not to focus on that result. And to just see if there's something along the way in the journey of putting it together that,

that is beneficial. I love that. And so to that point, are you, do you have something that you're working on that you love that you're going to take out soon? Or are you? There are a few things. Tough to talk about this because I'm working

with some other people and I don't want to jeopardize it. But there are a few things that I, the stuff that I'm most. We're going to have to read. The stuff that I'm most interested in doing and that I'm telling you we should do together is stuff that breaks the form a little bit. Because I think you'd need,

we've got to shake it up a little bit. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, whether things, I mean, you guys all have, I think there's a way to redo the multicam with like a lot more improv in it and a lot more. I'm dying to do that. You know, yeah, you and I talk about that, Jason.

Connect with the audience. Wait, who woke up Will? Somebody woke up Will. No, Will, not connect with the audience. Back to bed. Feel the laughter. No, okay. Well, a little bit of feel the laughter.

Break the form. And I remember I think that was what was fun about when we were all working together and there were so many grand aspirations that we never did. Like, do you remember, I was thinking about this yesterday, when we were trying to get David Cross's character,

who was an actor and want to be actor, Tobias, to actually appear on house as a regular as Tobias, like the actor Tobias is. And that on our show, he would be like going off to work and, you know, we'd be behind the scenes of their show. And on their show, it would just be an actor. It just wasn't very good.

But it wouldn't have to carry a lot of pipe or anything. And I remember this show runner saying, like, well, why are we the fake world? Because you share the stage next to us. Exactly. Well, we want to be the real world and have you be the fake world. It's like, no, just be.

It's funnier. But that's the stuff that, you know, remember we were, the other thing we were going to do like that was we were going to do a live show in between, like we were going to do a two-part season of Arrested Development on Netflix.

And then in the middle of it, like the characters were going to do this live show, this rally to fundraise for Buster. And then we were going to actually do the live show. Oh, that's cool. That's a good idea. Raising money for themselves and then air that as a special. And I don't know, that's the stuff.

Maybe it's just avoidance of the actual hard job of just writing characters and letting them be funny. But like, I do find that that's the stuff that appeals to me. Like, let's do two shows and have them interact somehow. Mitch, do you sometimes get distracted from having to do that shit, get distracted by like a funny idea?

Then you just like, this seems like so much more fun than the hard work of what I'm doing right now. I mean, I think that is the big secret to like comedy writing and we've had this experience together is like, everything is just about what's funny. You know, you kind of after the fact, you engineer what you're getting at and what the character's growth means and all that.

But really it starts with, what would be funny? Mitch, what about, what about, what would you say to a 12 episode, I'm not offering this yet. So don't say like sold. I'm in. Okay, sorry. Oh shit. No, I'm saying don't say, don't say I'm in.

To a 12 episode order of... Let's do it. Multi... Pfft. I didn't say sold. I said, let's do it. You did it. You did say let's do it.

12 episode of multi-cam episodes of Arrested. Oh God, I was hoping you were gonna say that. I'm in. Oh, that would be fantastic. Yeah. Do the sitcom version with a live studio audience. Just do an alternate thing. Yeah.

And then like... Yeah, alternate. And then we will borrow a little from WandaVision and we'll make it like, oh, it's all through time. Yeah. No, I always thought our show would work as a multi-cam. Because who plays Lucille Bluth? I know.

Sean Hayes. Sean Hayes. Oh my God. It's there and you're in the face. Yep. Sean Hayes. Slap it, wig on me. It's just another Tuesday.

Well, we're not gonna slap it. We're gonna glue. We're gonna do a bald cap first. Yeah, I think we want the wig to be right. It would make as much sense as... We want the wig to be really right. We got great... Go ahead.

Sorry, Jason. Yeah, who played... Who did you play? I'm just saying we have good wig people. Just take a wig off, Sean, and, you know, obviously put another better wig on him and just shoot the thing. Or just take one off and leave the one that's on underneath it.

Right, well, you're... Because you're double. Let's do a fucking... Let's do... Fuck. A rested development. Can I call you Milt? Is that a okay name?

Milt. Milt. Sure. Yeah, Sean. Sean, are you okay with Milt? Yeah, Milt. We're gonna go all the way back to Three Camera. And it's gonna be Dolly's.

Yeah? Yeah. Multi-cam arrested. Live band. Why not? Let's do it. Let's do... Let's do multi-cam and behind the scenes of a multi-cam

or something at the same show. We don't need to be. The whole sort of... What do they call it when cast come back together? Reunion. A reunion. Yeah, those are all the rage now. And you still don't think you should read, huh?

Some words are tough for me. Yeah, we'll do one of those and then we'll roll it right into a quick 22-minute episode. We'll just walk right over. I love it. I love it. And we'll get everybody back together. We'll get Dr. House. We'll get Tobias.

We'll get... We're not getting fucking Dr. House. We're all right. They said no. What about when Tobias' hair transplant rejected the... Graff versus host. Graff versus host. David crosses commitment to every scene.

Oh, god damn it. Everybody was funny in the thing. But David was so... And I think David might be the most unlike his character. Could be, yeah. Everybody was unlike their character. Yeah, it could be. But very similar in his comfort with being offbeat.

Yeah, I know. But he's very offbeat and he's very cool. And Tobias is just not offbeat and uncool. Yeah, yeah. We all know who is closest to their character. Don't say it. And that's our cue. And that's our cue.

Mitch, thank you so much for being here. I'm going to pick up the China story. And I'm going to check my email to see if I got about everything's relative. Yeah, you can see if you got the yes on that. Check my messages. And I will be by your house later to drop off a pie. You know what?

Because of COVID, we just use the pie slot now, which is around the sides. Okay, great. You see, it's just pie. You just put it in a pie slot? You put it in a pie slot? We could fit in a wig fitting when I'm over. I would love to do that.

John, I'd love to, it's going to sound creepy, but I'd love to get my hands on you. Not creepy at all. Here's the sad part. That doesn't sound creepy at all. Okay, good. I have my fingers crossed. You just can't see it.

It's so nice to meet you, though. And my friends, I love you. Love you, Mitch. I love you, too. Love you, love you, love you. Say hello to Mary Jo, please. Yes, I will. Thank you.

This has been the greatest first part of an interview that we've ever done. We're going to pick this up at a later date. We're going to have you back in like six months. We need to have more mature roots in our life. Right on. Yeah. All right, guys.

Love you, pal. Love you the best. I'll be the best. Bye. Guys, I don't know him obviously like you do. I love that man. Warm, friendly, hilarious. He's the funniest.

The funniest, nicest, smartest, most talented. He's the funniest. I mean, I truly would have done that show for ever. I'm jealous. Just because of him and because of all the people, 100% of the people that were there in front of the camera and off, just a great, great.

Love it. Very fortunate period in my life for sure. Will, what do you think? You hated the whole experience, didn't you? Yeah. Did you not like it? Yeah, I hated it. Every day, I remember every day going on to a lot at Fox

and just thinking, every day thinking, I can't believe I get to do this today. That's so great. I love that. Every fucking day was the best. And even the days where like I took a dump in Jason's trailer and turned the heat up. And I got you back by putting the tuna salad up in your closet

you couldn't find for a few months, right? That's true. Did you really do that? Yeah, almost a year in my trailers. And I was like screaming at the teamsters, can I get a new trailer for God's sake? I never screamed. I never screamed at a teamster.

But it was such a great experience. And it was the people. We got to, he led from the top with this just great energy. And it was always about, there was such a safety net there of, there was no wrong. There was no wrong answer. It was just kind of felt like you were always just trying to do the funniest version of the scene.

Yeah. And you could kind of try anything. He seems like a really fun guy that you'd want to hang out with that you'd maybe want to go grab a bite. A bite with a bite. I'll allow it. Bye. Smart.

Yes. Smart. Smart.