Something Rhymes with Purple - Frasier

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

It’s the final stop on our North American road trip and we have reached the city of technology, coffee and Frasier; it’s Seattle! Susie and Gyles will take us on our final etymological tour in this series where we will literally skid down ‘Skid Row’, discover how Moby Dick is connected to one of the biggest coffee chains in the world and what dead bodies had to do with a very well known tech company…  We love hearing from you, find us @SomethingRhymes on Twitter and Facebook, @SomethingRhymesWith on Instagram or you can email us here: [e-mail] Want even more purple, people? Join the Purple Plus Club by clicking the banner in Apple podcasts or head to purpleplusclub.com to listen on other platforms' Don’t forget that you can join us in person at our upcoming tour, tap the link to find tickets: www.somethingrhymeswithpurple.com  Enjoy Susie’s Trio for the week:  Quincunx: An arrangement of five things in a square, with one in the centre, like a five on a dice. Member for Berkshire: Someone with a loud nagging cough.  A labour: The collective noun for moles.  Gyles' poem this week was 'The Sea was Angry Today' by 'Jane McCullouch' The sea was angry today. I did not argue. But watched it make its way, with familiar roar crashing and swirling  into the cream-foamed eddies, besides the rocks, filling the pools, and spilling out onto the battered shore. And as I glanced across the sand I thought of calmer days, A man, two dogs, a stick in hand, And a shimmering, glistening haze.  This week's episode is dedicated to the Purple family of Ash Touw and her very curious childen Yavanna, Ida and Ethan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up y'all it's your man Mark Strong Strizzy and your girl Jem the Jem of all Jems and we're hosting Olympic FOMO your essential recap podcast of the 2024 Olympic Games in 20 minutes or less every day we'll be going behind the scenes for all the wins

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with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main We'll see you next time. Amex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. Welcome to another episode of Something Rhymes with Purple. This is a weekly conversation that I enjoy with my friend, the lexicographer, Susie Dent.

We're based in the United Kingdom, but we're both, well, I would say, are we avid travellers? Are we enthusiastic travellers? Or are we intrepid travellers? How would you describe us as visitors to other places? Curious travellers, I would say, and none more so than when it comes to the United States. Because as you know, Giles, I lived there for a little while, but didn't have the money as a student to travel as much as I would have liked. So one day I would love to go back and do a road trip or do a train trip more likely. But the reason I mention North America is that we have reached the final stop, haven't we, on our North America road trip. Oh no, is it all over? I've loved our road trip. For now. Not that it was bad. It was a virtual road trip. We've been to all the places in a way that I've been to before.

And we're ending up somewhere that I loved going to. Yes, and I have never been. So this is on my bucket list. And we're going to be tourists, as always, because clearly we don't live and breathe these cities. But there's been a huge voyage of discovery for us. We are ending up in the beautiful, beautiful city of Seattle. Yeah. I was excited to go to Seattle for two reasons. One, to see Seattle. Two, because

I have a family in the west coast of Canada. And I think the first European to visit the Seattle area was somebody called George Vancouver in 1792, and part of a Royal Navy expedition to chart the Pacific Northwest. And he was the first European there. But of course, Vancouver, Vancouver Island in Canada, just north of Seattle, is named after him. Do we know anything about the name Seattle? Why, Seattle is basically Washington State's largest city, isn't it? It is indeed. And the name of Seattle comes from a chief, a native chief Seattle, I think it's, so it's S-E-E-A-H-L-T-H. And apparently this makes Seattle the only major city named after a native chief. And he was the leader of both the Suquamish and the Duwamish people. As I say, many, many

indigenous tribes to whom Seattle and this area belonged. And, you know, they have contributed so much in many, many different ways. Okay. Well, take us through in terms, because we're here to talk about language. I said it was in the Pacific Northwest. You probably do know why it's called the Pacific Ocean. Yes, I do know why it's called the Pacific Ocean. And it's actually quite lovely. So when distinctions began to be made

between different bodies of water in the world, you know, in the age of exploration, naming was often inspired by either cultural inspirations or impulses or personal ones. So, the Indian Ocean is obviously topographical. The Atlantic Ocean was named after the Atlas Mountain Range in Northern Africa. And they in turn were named after the powerful Titan who supported the heavens. But the Pacific Ocean is more personal, really, because it owes its title to the explorer Ferdinand Magellan. We know him through the heavens. But the Pacific Ocean is more personal, really, because it owes its title to the explorer Ferdinand Magellan. We know him through the Straits of Magellan primarily. But in around, I think, 1520, he was searching for a route through the New World to the Spice Islands.

And he experienced storms, unpredictable winds, and unpredictable currents as he was passing through what came to be known as the Straits of Magellan. And then they came into the open waters of what was known at the time, I think, as the Sea of the South. And Magellan's crossing of the ocean was, it was long, but he was struck by the calmness of the sea, its serenity. And so he led, it led him to name it Mar Pacifico, which means the tranquil sea, which is gorgeous. So that Pacific looks back to the Latin pax, meaning peace, because he saw it as being calm and unruffled compared with the straits that he had travelled through. So rather beautiful, really. Well, I love that. I ought to explain to people that when I visited, it was a long time ago. I mean, more than well, nearly 60 years ago that I first went to Seattle. So it was before this tech hub that we're going to talk about in a moment. And I remember when I first went there, which is literally, you know, some people more than their lifetimes ago, they were still talking about it being a timber town.

some people more than their lifetimes ago, they were still talking about it being a timber town. They were still talking, I mean, literally, they were talking about the great, they were talking about the gold rush. I mean, there were people who almost could remember the gold rush when I was there. There was certainly, I met a man who remembered the great, the famous fire. There was a famous fire in Seattle towards the end of the 19th century, which destroyed these, the central business district, which was amazing. And I also- It's interesting you mentioned that. Sorry, can I just- Yeah, of course.

Interpolate there that actually you talked about the timber industry. It was in Seattle, I think, that we first got the metaphor skid row. Exactly. But actually, it was originally something very literal. It was because this area in Seattle was, you know, surrounded by sawmills and steep hills that led to these sawmills and logs were skidded down the hills. But because it was an impoverished area and lots of sort of taverns and brothels, I think, grew up around it. I think being on skid row meant that you didn't have many pennies in your pockets. I think it was in Seattle that that started you didn't have many pennies in your pockets. I think it was in Seattle that that started.

I know it was in Seattle that was started. You've just stolen my best story. Oh, I'm so sorry. It doesn't matter at all. But you're right. I mean, the first big boom in Seattle was to do with timber, the lumber industry. And I've actually been to the original Skid Row with a descendant of the person whose name, who actually owned the sawmill. The street was known as Yesler Way, Y-E-S-L-E-R. Henry Yesler owned a sawmill. And when I was in Seattle, one of his descendants took me on a trip

around the town and took me to Yesler Way and said, this is the original Skid Row, because the timber skidded down the hill to the sawmill. And later, and consequently, it was known as Skid Row, because that's where Skid Yesler Way. And later, when there was a lot of poverty, and as you say, it became this sort of difficult area, that's how the name Skid Row spread. Yeah. So. No, it's fascinating that.

Well, we are going on a very superficial tour because the history of Seattle is so fascinating. And in many ways, it's because of the boom and bust nature of the place. It's seen timber. Well, I say before that it's all bust nature of the place. It's seen timber. Well, I say before that it saw elements of the gold rush. It's seen timber. Later it became the headquarters of Boeing. So much going on there.

It is now perceived as a tech hub. Headquarters of, I think, Amazon, Microsoft. Am I right? Yes. We're here to talk about words. Where do the words Microsoft and Amazon come from? Microsoft, because at the time of its establishment, it was all about microprocessors, remember those, and software. So it's a blend of those.

And Amazon, I think we have talked about before when we were discussing the etymology of brand names. So Amazon, Jeff Bezos initially dubbed it Cadabra, as in abracadabra. But someone misheard it apparently as cadaver. And so he decided to move it to, move its name to the enormous river in South America. Very good. Well, I mean, my recollection of Seattle when I first visited, because there were no tech giants there of any kind,

was the sheer beauty of the place. We went to the coast, the water, the mountains, the forests, the famous parks there. There's the famous Pike Place Market. And believe it or not, when I first went there, the Space Needle was new. Oh, wow. Do you know anything about Pike? And how was that? Did you go up it? Yes, of course I went up it. Everybody did. It was like going up the Eiffel Tower or the

Empire State Building. Yeah, had to be done. Do you know anything about Pike Place Market? Yes, of course I went up it. Everybody did. It was like going up the Eiffel Tower or the Empire State Building. Yeah, had to be done. Do you know anything about Pike Place Market? I do, only because I've never been there, as I say, because I have read up about it. So it's apparently one of the oldest continually running markets in the country. Opened in 1907, has many, many visitors each month, and it's named for its central street, which is Pike Place, in turn named after John Pike,

who was the architect and builder of Washington Territorial University. And that's now the metropolitan tract of downtown Seattle. Tell me about the Space Needle. The Space Needle. The Space Needle, for many people, defines Seattle. It's the one thing in the landscape that people know. If you watch, for many people, defines Seattle. It's the one thing in the landscape that

people know. If you watch, as I do, I re-watch the television series Frasier, which may be coming back, though set in a different city, alas. In the opening credits, there is the space needle. It's an observation tower in Seattle. It's the icon of the city. It's the Seattle landmark. It's located in the lower Queen Anne neighborhood. It was built in the Seattle Center for the 1962 World's Fair, which drew over 2.3 million visitors. I first visited in about 65, 66, 67. To picture it, it's on a huge metal poles, kind of like an enormous pole in the middle of nowhere. And then on the top is a circular, like a spaceship that's landed on top of it. I think it's 600, more than 600 feet tall, though that's right to the very top.

The top floor, which I went to, you can go up to for the observation is about 500, I think, oh, 518 feet high. You go up to the observation deck and you can see the skyline of Seattle. You can see over the Olympic, the Cascade Mountains. You can see, well, as far as the eye can see. It's fantastic. Oh, it sounds wonderful. You know, another thing that I associate with Seattle, I have to say, and I think Frasier also would sort of feed into this, is coffee shops. It's a huge, there's a huge coffee culture there. And it's where Starbucks was born, wasn't it? As well as many independents. We all, well, give me, before you give me the origin of the word Starbucks, which I think a lot of people will know, I don't actually

know the origin of coffee. Oh, well, it's a Turkish and an Arabic word. So you would expect something suitably exotic. It came into English in the late 16th century, and obviously it's all about the plant that yields the beans, that yields the coffee. And yes, you mentioned Starbucks, lots of people will know this, a name taken from a character in Moby Dick. Again, might be an urban myth, but it tells how the founders initially considered naming the company after Ahab's boat, the Pequod, but they changed their mind when they realised that the P element may be less appetising. Very good. You've stopped having coffee, haven't you?

I have, actually. I gave it up about 25 years ago. I had something called acid reflux, and I was told, give up coffee. Not 25 years ago, G giles because when i first met you you would always be going in and having at least two espressos at least at least more than that wasn't 25 years ago wasn't it we've known each other only 25 years even just before we started this podcast when you and i gathered to talk about it you were drinking coffee you were no no you absolutely were yeah i. No. You absolutely were. I would find you, yes, you were highly addicted to your coffees.

So anyway, this is relevant to nobody but us. Well, I have to tell you, giving up coffee has been the most, was the most terrifying experience of my life. Oh, the detox. The detox was frightening. The pains in the legs, I can't tell you. Do you want to take a quick break? And then let's go into the music of Seattle.

Because Seattle's got a rich music history. I was never into grunge, but I suspect that you were, Susie Dent. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick?

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is also a big anime fan. So Megan, do you want to trade AOT Hot Takes? We're here. Listen every Friday, wherever you get your podcast and watch full episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. We're in Seattle. Well, we're not actually in Seattle.

Susie Dent has never been. Which we were. And I went so many years ago. I loved it. It really is beautiful. And for me, the big excitement was the Space Needle, going up that Space Needle. This was years before Starbucks had made Seattle even more famous. Boeing was then before Starbucks had made Seattle even more

famous. Boeing was then the big company in Seattle, making all those airplanes. But it had, I think, a rich music history. But I'm not familiar with that because, as you know, words are my music. I think grunge and various alternative rock genres have an association with Seattle. But I know nothing about this. You are my hip-hop beat consultant, Dent. So tell me about grunge. Where does the word come from? What does it mean? Well, grunge, before it became associated with rock music, really, grunge was used to mean grime or dirt. And you can hear it, can't you? And it's sound, grunge. Now, grungy was coined in the 1960s or thereabouts, and it was

probably a blend of grubby, the state you get in when you grub around or dig, and dingy, a word of unknown origin, but possibly related to dung. So you get the idea that it was all sort of murky. And then in the 1990s, grunge became the term, the term for a style of rock music. And the idea is that the guitar is played raucously as a sort of lazy vocal style as well. But it's just sort of getting down and dirty, really. It's just raw. And I think Seattle definitely has a rich history when it comes to alternative rock genres, as well as grunge. And Nirvana, you will remember, just a beautiful word, great, great name for a band. It's the transcendent state, isn't it, where the sense of self is released and is the final goal of Buddhism.

So it's an ideal or idyllic state or place. And for those who don't like Nirvana, I think they probably will not feel that, but that's where it comes from. And tell me a little bit more about Frasier, then. You mentioned that as your favourite programme. It is my favourite programme. How wound up or bound up is that in Seattle? It's totally bound up in Seattle. It won't be in future, but it absolutely is. People are not familiar with this. Let me explain. It is my favorite sitcom, bar none. They made 11 big series of it, I think a total of 264 episodes, between about 1993 and 2004.

It is extraordinary. It began as a spinoff from another sitcom called Cheers, and it continues the story of one of the characters from that, a psychiatrist, Frasier Crane, played by a great actor called Kelsey Grammer, whose life story, his personal life story, is pretty fraught with high drama. And he is genius in this.

And in the story, he comes back to his hometown of Seattle as a radio show host. He reconnects with his father, a guy called Martin, played by an actor called John Mahoney, who has now died, sadly. So he can't be in the revival, who was a retired police officer. Anyway, it's won every award you can guess. I mean, you know, 37 Emmys. It's just fantastic. And of course, Seattle is part and parcel of it. The coffee culture is central to it. When they're not in the radio studio

or in Frasier's apartment, they are in the coffee shop. And why I love it is because it's all about words. Words to me are what music are to other people. I need to go back to Frasier. It's one of the programs that I need to watch more religiously because I sort of dipped in and out of it. But I'm glad it gives you such joy. Do you know what it's time for now, though? Yeah, I'll tell you what it's time for. It's our correspondence.

And I would like to invite people, if anyone's listening to this in Seattle or Washington State or even across the border in Vancouver, if you're listening in Vancouver, go up to Squamish for a picnic. There's nothing nicer in the world on Vancouver Island. Anyway, if you're from that part of the world,

please get in touch and tell us what for you Seattle means. We've given you the Eurocentric caricature, you know, the Space Needle, coffee, tech, grunge. We'd like to dig deep intoattle and you can help us do that get in touch with us we're purple at something else.com purple at something else.com something without a g have people been in touch this week about other things and where they come from they're

always in touch and we love reading through these things and we have chosen first out of the back sam prince what you got to tell us? Hello Giles and Susie. It's Sam here from London and I've got a question for you about hair. I want to know why does the UK call it a fringe but the US calls it bangs? Two very different words there and I've always wondered why that distinction happens. So please let me know. Thank you very much. I love it. And I think the contrast came to her when she was reading a Trixie Belden mystery as a preteen that her dad brought back to her from Florida. And then it's resurfaced again when she was watching the latest season of Emily in Paris. Have you been watching Emily in Paris? I haven't, but I know of it. Look, you've got to get in there with the popular

culture, darling. Yes. Yes. I can just imagine you and Michelle watching Emily in Paris. I love Emily in Paris. There's a different frock in every shot. It's completely fantastic. It's not in the least bit real. I love Sam Prince's name as well. What a great name. So, good question. What's the answer? Yes. So, bangs. Bangs are a modified form of bang tail. And bang tail was the name for the cut of a cow's tail to form a straight-ended sort of tassel, if you like. And at some point, I think in the imagination, the fringe, as we would call it, of a hairstyle reminded people of this cutting of a cow's tail,

so that it was very straight across, if you like. Now, fringe has been in the language for centuries, meaning an ornamental border, so at least since the 1500s, I think, and then entered hairdressing parlance, if you like, in the late 1800s. So a fringe of hair, it is again about that sort of, you know, the border, the border of a hair. So you only have to look at somebody with a very straight fringe and you can see that it does literally fringe their face. So that one is more obvious, but the bang thing is a bit

curious until you know that it goes back to bang tail they're good we live and learn that's the joy of something rhymes with purple and then we don't forget at all i'll say absolutely um now next letter who does this come from this is from ash hi giles and suzy my 10 year old daughter would like to know where, when and why employers started using the expressions, you're sacked and you're fired. I've consumed every episode you have created and when asked to dress as our favourite words for World Book Day at school last year, we dressed up as the words thalassophile, ethereal and bejewelled. Kind regards, Ash Tau and my very curious children, Yovanna, Iereal and bejeweled. Kind regards, Ash Tau, and my very curious children, Yovanna, Ida and Ethan.

Aww. That is so moving. We don't normally dedicate our episodes to anybody, but can we dedicate this episode to this amazing family? I agree. How amazing for World Book Day. Ash, Yovanna, Ida, Ethan. How fantastic. Thank you for listening to more than 200 episodes.

And think of that on World Book Day, dressing up as words. That's fantastic, isn't it? And choosing those particular words. Ash, if you have any photos, please do send them in because we would absolutely love to see them. Oh, we would. But onto your question,

and this is from your 10-year-old daughter, as you say. It is a bit curious, isn't it? Why do we give someone the sack when we dismiss them? Well, the idea is that before the Industrial Revolution, in factories, it was common to have workers who would move from place to place wherever the work was. So they weren't necessarily permanently attached to one particular factory. They were peripatetic, as we would say, they went from one place to another. And they would carry their own tools and supplies as a result in a sack, and they would take this sack with them wherever they went. And the idea is that

they would leave the sack with their employer for safekeeping while they worked in that particular place. But when they left, or they were dismissed, they were sacked. In other words, they were given their sack and told to go. So that is simply the idea there, we think, is carrying your tools, the tools of the trade in a sack. As for being fired, this is probably a reference to the speed with which a bullet, for example, is fired or discharged from a firearm. And we talk about being discharged from a job, it's the same metaphor which a bullet, for example, is fired or discharged from a firearm. And we talk about being discharged from a job. It's the same metaphor. And actually, if you look in the dictionary, you will see a record from 1879 and an American newspaper called the Cincinnati Inquirer, where it talks about professional slang of the time. And it includes fired, banged, and shot out. And it says when a performer is

discharged, he's one of the above. So all of those really are about the metaphor of a gun and the speed with which somebody is let go. I remember once when I got a job, I arrived from the first day and I was fired with enthusiasm. Six months later, I was truly fired with enthusiasm by the manager. That's lovely. Well done. It is nice, isn't it? It's a lovely, lovely question. And a phrase like hired and fired, the fact that one rhymes with the other, that's nothing to do with why fired is so popular, because it works so well, hired and fired.

Yes. No, I think that came later. I think that was a riff on an existing term. Good. Well, if you've got questions that Susie can answer, please get in touch with us. It's purple at somethingelse.com, something without the G. And Susie, we want now to dip into what we're calling your Susie-saurus. This is where you dig into the archives and come up with some of your past big hitters, questions you're constantly being asked, that wherever you go, people say, oh, Maverick. What is the origin of Maverick? Is it named after someone? Was there a Maverick? What's the answer? Yes, there was. I'm not sure. It's Susie Sawyer. I think we need to come up with a better name,

because it's not so much a synonym, but as you say, it's one of my favourite word origins. So, Samuel Augustus Maverick, Giles, was a land baron in the 19th century. He lived in Texas, owned such a large herd of cattle that he left his calves unbranded. Now, he was a really busy man. So he was a member of the Texas Congress, a practicing lawyer. We're not sure if he thought it was cruel to brand his calves or whether he just didn't have time. But whatever his reason, his failure to brand them was frowned upon by his neighbours. And whenever they saw one of his calves mixing in with their own, they would apparently say, there goes another Maverick.

His notoriety spread and his namesake came to signify anybody who's unorthodox, possibly eccentric or independent minded. So Maverick is one of the best eponyms, I think, that we have in our language. It's a lovely story. Brilliant eponym. Well done, Mr. Maverick. Now it's time for your trio. Three unusual words that you feel would benefit

from being noted in my book of new words, or indeed remembered if I could remember things. Yes, well, I think you'll know the first one, a quincunx. Oh, I recognize that. Quincunx. It's an arrangement of five things in a square with one of them in the center. So, think of the five on a dice or a die. Throw a single die and you will see the arrangement of five things in a sort of square shape with one in the centre. That is simply a quincunx. I just like it. It sounds quite nice. You might know this one as

well. A member for Berkshire. Now, this is nothing to do with the rhyming slang Berkshire hunt, I can reassure you. A member for Berkshire is somebody, or it was in Victorian slang, with a loud nagging cough. I guess because they're barking. Maybe it should be a member for barking. Member for Berkshire. Oh, I love that. So it's just a member from Berkshire.

I love it. And actually, there is nothing worse, empathy aside, for somebody who's got a cough that is just continuous. It's just, you know. So irritating, isn't it? It is. Do you know, Giles, this is my third it is do you know giles this is my third offering do you know the collective noun for moles moles garden moles i don't know a hole of moles no a tougher a sussex it is a labor a labor of moles because they're toiling silently below the

earth yeah oh i like that a labor of moles yes i was going to say a tussock of moles. Running silently below the earth. Yeah. Oh, I like that. A labour of moles. Yes. I was going to say a tussock of moles. That's great. What is a tussock? A tussock is a bit like a hillock, I think. So it kind of, yeah, I think it ties in quite well there. So it's not a bad choice of word, is it?

No, a tussock of moles. But I like a labour of moles. Yeah, that is the older one. That's a good trio. Yeah, I think so too. Well, today for my poem, because we've been on our lightning tour of Seattle and my recollection of Seattle is going to the coast and looking out over the Northwest Pacific and feeling the ferocious ocean there, I've chosen a poem by my friend, the poet, writer, novelist, Jane McCulloch.

And the poem is a short poem called The Sea Was Angry Today. The sea was angry today. I did not argue, but watched it make its way with familiar roar, crashing and swirling into the cream-foamed eddies, beside the rocks, filling the pools and spilling out onto the battered shore. And as I glanced across the sand, I thought of calmer days, a man, two dogs, a stick in hand,

and a shimmering, glistening haze. Isn't that beautiful? It's beautiful and very evocative. You can picture the scene, can't you? You absolutely can. And it brings us right back to the thalassophilia that Ash was talking to us about. And a thalassophile is a lover of the sea.

That's gorgeous. I was too embarrassed to ask you because I thought, I know she's told us it several times. I should really remember. That's what it's a love of the sea. Oh my goodness. Anyway, look, if people are struggling with any of the spelling, and I always am, Susie's Chio can always be found in our programme description blurb of each episode, along with the title and author of my poem. So that's a lot, isn't it, for this week? That is a lot. Please do remember to subscribe to us if you would like. We love it when you do,

and we love it when you recommend us to friends and family as well. And there is also the Purple Plus Club if you would like a little bit more of me and Giles, ad-free listening, and some extra episodes on words and language and poetry. Which, let me put in a little plug for one of the episodes that I know we've done and that on our A to Z of poets about Edward Thomas, because that poem, that sort of nature poem by Jane McCulloch describing a scene has a slight echo, doesn't it,

of the great poem Adelstrop by Edward Thomas, which I know we're going to talk about in the Purple Plus cover. Absolutely. Observing and feeling nature. It's gorgeous, as are you, Purple people. Thank you so much for listening to us. Something Rhymes with Purple is, as always, there's something else

and Sony Music Entertainment production produced by Harriet Wells with additional production from Chris Skinner, Jen Mystery, J.B. all who's with us today, Teddy Riley, Ollie Wilson, and, well, he's not here today, is he, Charles? No, I think he's jumped into the ocean. It's Gully.

Member for Berkshire.