Something Rhymes with Purple - Gyldenbollockes

Episode Date: September 3, 2019

Surnames: where do they come from and what do they mean? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Susie Dent. I've forgotten that. And we are... I've almost forgotten your name. People never forget their names, though. The name is your identity. Across a crowded room, you can't hear anything else. If anybody says Susie Dent, you'll pick it up, won't you? Yes. Because we are all obsessed with ourselves

and we're actually mostly quite intrigued by our own names. Surnames fascinate me. I know we've talked about the origin of the name Brandreth and the origin of the name Dent. I discovered recently, which I didn't know, that Johnson, did you realise this, as in penis? Yes, it is a euphemism for the male member. Yeah. Which, when does this date from? Would you like me to look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary? I would. I mean, I say. from the Johnson. Would you like me to look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary?

I would. I mean, I say. I suspect that the dictionary is somehow remarkably prescient. I think it can see into the future. Johnson has meant a penis since 1863. Trump has meant to fart for centuries. And I mean, also to triumph.

And I think I've also mentioned one of my trio of words, Trumpariness, which is the state of being extremely showy, but utterly worthless. So Johnson has meant a penis, yeah, for a very long time. We are, I should explain this, a non-political above party politics podcast. We are for all comers who are interested in words and language.

We believe in the power of language. We try to do things with words. I think they are vital. And our names are vital to ourselves. We all have surnames now. Is the surname a new thing, an old thing? When did the surname come along? And what does surname mean?

S-U-R-N-A-M-E. It means additional name. As in surplus, something extra. Surplus, yes. So sur, obviously in French, is on top of. When did surnames come into being? Surnames around the end of the 12th century. So adding a surname to someone's personal name, it became a common practice then.

So this was in the wake of 1066 and the Normans coming over. So it was amongst members of the Anglo-Norman ruling classes. They were the ones who had the first surnames. But a thousand years ago, therefore, we just said, ah, there be Susan. She's the word girl. There's surnames now that we're talking about though, isn't it? Yes, no, but they would have known you by your first name until then. Until then, I think you mean.

Yes. So a thousand years ago, you would simply have been called Susan. She's the word one. And the other, oh, that's Giles. He's the one who never stops talking. Is that how we would have been described? Yes, I guess so. And actually, it's funny you should say that because nicknames were quite a common way of creating surnames.

So if you had Little John, that might have been applied to somebody who was of smaller stature than the next John. And occasionally there were sort of jokes as well. So there's a wonderful surname recorded centuries ago. I can't remember his first name, actually, but it was Sweat in the Bed. Sweat in the Bed. That's a new surname. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Charlie Sweat in the Bed. I love it. That is not a name that has lingered over the years. No. So with the arrival, with the Norman conquest, we have surnames being introduced. For what purpose? I mean, why were they needed? Well, they were needed for differentiation more often than not.

So they could allude to where the bearer lived, their family relation, you know, Johnson. Is the son of John, yeah. Exactly. Their status or occupation, and we'll come to that, or as I say, their nickname. So that was the ruling classes. And then during the next few centuries, it kind of spread to most of the population. Oh, so initially it was just the people in power, the hoi polloi, which means common people, hoi polloi.

Hoi polloi, common people. Common people, it's a Greek expression. The vulgar people. The vulgar people. Vulgar meaning not vulgar as we know it today, but vulgar, vulgar, you know, the sort of, as you say, common in the neutral way. So the people who were the peasants working the land, they would just have had Christian names. Yes, exactly right. And a while ago, I wrote a review actually for a book written by David McKee, who is an onomast, somebody who studies proper names, surnames.

An onomast? Onomastics, it's called, yes. I thought you should be arrested. Oh, dear, I'm afraid. Touch of the old onomasm. Yes, it's O-N-O. Onomos in Greek was a name. A name.

So not the onan. Onan, the spilling of seed. Exactly. Oh, yes. Yes, onanism Onan, the spilling of seed. Exactly. Oh, yes. Yes, Onanism, obviously masturbation. We're not talking about masturbation, we're talking about surnames.

He looked at other countries. For example, in South Korea, some 20 million people share just five surnames. Good grief. Every one of Denmark's top 20 surnames ends in sun,

S-E-N meaning son of, which is replicated across Scandinavia. But British surnames, we've never had such kind of restrictions. And we've had, he mentioned some really wonderfully chewy names in the past. I mentioned sweat in the bed. There's also crackpot, crookbones. I love it. Crackpot. I'd like to be called Giles Crackpot.

Crookbones. Crookbones. And then obviously you'll still find your haythorn thwait haythorn thwait your mcgillicuddy which is wonderful and going back to the 17th century when under the influence of the puritans kids would be baptized with really pious names so you've got thankful thorpe this isn't more first names, actually, but Humiliation Hind and Kill Sin Pimple. And surnames such as Black in the Mouth, Blubber, Peck Cheese and Hate Christ.

Goodness. These were surnames. Really descriptive surnames. Hate Christ. Oh, my goodness. I know. So fascinating, really. Our surnames, you know, tell a thousand tales. Well, if everybody in Denmark has... Was it in South Korea? South Korea, 20 million people just shared just five surnames. Now, quiz for you.

Can you guess the top 10 surnames in the UK? Oh, that's a good one. Well, I know you can do... Smith's still there. Smith is still number one. We have our lovely Paul Smith, the producer. So it's a good surname. And we'll come to that

because obviously it's to do with an occupation. How about Johnson? No, not in the top 10 at all but close to it jones is at number two yeah is that related to john in some way i guess so actually yes i have to say i'm not an onomast i so i i'm a bit of a magpie when it comes to surnames i just kind of collect comes third williams and williamson and that will be from william weren't it? Black, white colours in there? No, not in the top ten. Taylor is next. T-A-Y-L-O-R.

But I imagine that comes from the trade of the tailor. Absolutely. Davies, T-A-V-I-S, is at number five. Brown is number six. OK, so you've got colour. Wilson is number seven.

Wilson. Evans is number eight. Number nine is Thomas. And number 11 is Roberts. So of those, several are actually versions of first names. Yeah. And then we get down to, well, the other colours. White is at number 16.

Edward, Hughes, 17 and 18. Green is number 19. Wood is 21. 24 is Jackson. And 25 is Clark, with an E. OK, so that makes sense. As you say, many of them occupational. We'll come to the different categories as well.

We're talking about nicknames and how sometimes they result in medieval humour. So somebody with the surname Stout might well have been an epithet for someone who was quite skinny. So sometimes they kind of flipped it. might well have been an epithet for someone who was quite skinny. So sometimes they kind of flipped it. Did you know, long before David Beckham, centuries before David Beckham, there was a Gildenbollocks. That was a popular surname on the streets of medieval England. Gildenbollocks.

Why are you relating that to David Beckham? Because he was called Goldenballs. Goldenballs? Yes. Because he was so good as a hitter of balls with his feet exactly gildan and so there was somebody called gildan bollocks gildan bollocks quite a few people called gildan bollocks yeah hugo ah hello i am hugo gildan bollocks i love it we need to revive these surnames is dent your maiden name as it were i've always been a dent i've never had any other name

but dent you've always been called dent yes because some people now do this thing of hyphenating. Hyphenating. My daughter, Afra Brandreth, she is married to Ian Stroud, and their children are Brandreth Stroud, which is fine. But what are the grandchildren going to be? It just goes on and on and on. But it's quite an issue, isn't it? I mean, do you keep your father's name, your mother's name? What do you keep? What do most people do nowadays? They still, I think,

traditionally take the father's surname. Yes, although I know a lot of people who take their mum's surname, actually. Oh, my mother's surname was Addison. Giles Addison. Actually, Marchant. But that's rather good. Susan. And tonight with Susan Marchant. I like that. It's got a certain ring to it. Does it? And I think Giles Addison is rather good. I like it too.

I think it's got a... Oh, I just so hate Brandreth. Such a ridiculous name. And being spelt with a Y is pretty ridiculous too. I was dipping into somebody else's podcast the other day because you've got to keep up with the competition. Absolutely. And it was hosted by Giles Corrin.

Oh, yeah. Who is a young, not so young, but younger than me, journalist. And he does a podcast with his wife. And this show that I was listening to began with a long rift about why he was called Giles and how people used to confuse him with me, which I was quite excited about. And how he hated this. I was not so excited about that. How people asked him if it was Giles with a Y,

because my Giles is spelt with a Y, and how he thought that was a bit poncy. He's just with an I. What he didn't know and won't know, unless he listens to our podcast, is that I was a friend of his father, Alan Corrin. Alan Corrin. Alan Corrin was a broadcaster, wasn't he? He was a funny man. He was a very funny

man. And I met him 50 years ago when I was a student at Oxford. And I invited the then editor of Punch, which was an enormously famous, humorous magazine that will have given many words to our language. I imagine it's often quoted. The phrase, the phrase came from a cartoon that appeared in Punch in sometime in the 19th century. And I invited the editor of Punch to come to Oxford to speak at the debating society, the Oxford Union, when I was president. And he came. And he invited me to go to a lunch at Punch. And they used to have a famous Punch table where all the former editors and lead contributors had carved their names into the table.

former editors and lead contributors had carved their names into the table. So people like A.A. Milne, the great of Winnie the Pooh, he'd been the deputy editor of Punch around the time of the First World War. His name was there. And I sat next to Alan Corrin, who eventually became editor of Punch and was, I would say, perhaps the most amusing, humorous journalist of his day. And he also was a broadcaster. Anyway, we talked about my name being Giles, and he said how he liked the name Giles.

And this was before he was married, before he had children. So I think Giles Corran is very lucky that it wasn't Giles with a Y. Nice to be called Giles, but not Giles with a Y. The reason I'm called Giles with a Y is simply that names didn't have settled spellings either, did they, for hundreds of years? No. And in olden times, Giles would have been spelt with a Y or with an I. Either. We have to remember Shakespeare spelled his own name twice differently.

I think more than that. On his will, on the same document. On the same document. Yes. William Shakespeare spelt it different ways. He did. He did. On the same document. Yes. William Shaksper spelt it different ways. He did. He did. But it is fascinating.

I mean, he was talking about first names there. But with surnames, I mean, some people lived and literally died for their names. William's conquering army, going back to 1066, about a third of them apparently were Flemings. And that meant somebody from Flanders and traditionally associated with trade, etc. But there are still Flemings. There are still Flemings. There is the Fleming banking family of which Ian Fleming, of course, the creator of 007 James Bond, was a member.

But when English merchants started to resent the new competition, the results were quite dramatic. And going back to David McKee's wonderful study of surnames, he relates how many of the Flemings who settled in London were actually hunted down by mobs because they were called Flemings. And they were forced to say words like bread and cheese. And if their response was a little bit like brod and kiss, they would be set upon and slaughtered. So surnames can have fairly dramatic consequences. Surnames can have fairly dramatic consequences.

You know, what's also really interesting for a linguist is that very often a surname will give you the first record of a name. So the Oxford English Dictionary will give you a surname. I think it was called Roger. I always call everybody Roger. And it was called Adam. Adam Bilberrylip is the first quotation we have for Bilberry. And that was in a court roll of 1584 in Nottingham. And Squibb is first recorded in a nickname. Even the F word is recorded in surnames from the 13th century. So we've got a Mr. Windfuck in 1287. Now, why would anyone be called Windfuck?

Okay. Because do you you remember you've forgotten our swearing episode in which i told you that fucking was all about hitting someone originally not about loving someone or having sex with them to do with striking so it was striking so wind fucker do you remember was a name for the kestrel so so mr wind fuck probably took his put yourself together girl probably took his name from the wind fucker kestrel there's also um in the 13th century there was a mr fuck butter all to do with the butter monger knocking butter of blocks oh my goodness knocking blocks of butter uh so butter into blocks for sale. That's what we think that one is. Oh, fuck

butter. So it was somebody, as you know, when you made like a portion of butter for someone to buy, there's a great vat of it. You take it out. And put it into blocks. You beat it into place. Yeah, and it was all about beating. And the word fuck actually means beat. You were beating the butter into place. So he is the local

fuck butter. And just to finish off, you've got Alice Charwoman. That's the first record we have of Charwoman. Alice Charwoman. And Ralph Bullfinch. There you go. I think it's time for a break, actually.

Oh, I don't know if we can have a break just before Alice Charwoman. Why is she called a Charwoman? When I was a child, cleaners that you would see with scarves tied around their heads, on their knees, scrubbing their front doorsteps. Sometimes we're called char-women.

Why were they called char-women? I'll tell you after the break. Okay. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no.

What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious. Join me every Wednesday as we set off on a stunning journey of curiosity on a new subject and dive into the archive of more than 370 episodes. Listen to Getting Curious wherever you get your podcasts. Giles, before the break, you asked me about Charwoman, because we were talking about Alice Charwoman in the 14th century, who was alive and well. Char, it goes back to chair, C-H-A-R-E, which meant a turn of work.

So it's all to do with turning. So that's why we have the Charladies. I remember Charladies as well. Not that we had any. Alice Charwoman. Yes. It's rather a lovely name. It is, isn't it?

Now, I think at this point, I should tell you where most surnames come from, because you read out some of the most popular ones. I mean, some of them are fairly obvious. So you have, in the 12th century, when surnames really began to become settled, obviously you have a lot of villages. So the majority of the population, which is about a million and a half in those days were country dwellers and many of our surnames have those artisans people were artisans within the villages as their origins we have the miller you mentioned a.a milne that's a

variation of miller you have the smith like our wonderful paul smith, Goldsmith or Shoesmith or even Smythe. You have the nailers, you have the bakers, also known as Baxters. We mentioned tailors, websters and weavers would weave the cloth that was from the fullers. They softened it. You'd have merchants? You'd have merchants and marchants is my maiden name. Or not my maiden name, my mum's maiden name. Walkers fold the cloth by walking or trampling in it.

In the South West, those fullers were called tuckers. Walker, interestingly, now number 12 in the list of most popular surnames. Wright, W-R-I-G-H-T, number 13, as in wheelwright. Wheelwrights, exactly. Ploughwrights, they made the wooden parts of the ploughs. The wainwrights made wagons because wain was an old English term for a wagon, as in constables hay wain, the hay wagon. The hewers, surname of the lovely Nicholas Hewer, they worked as cutters of wood and stone. They hewed the stone and so on. And then, of course, other occupations

came about. Now, a really important part of every villager's diet was ale. I mean, ale was considered to be the most drinkable, potable drink, really. It was the healthiest one because water was considered to be quite dangerous. So you have the brewer, the cooper,man. Yeah. And also, sometimes the ale wives would stand outside these pubs and sell their drinks. And they would shout good ale to their customers. And that's where we get good all from. The name good all comes from good ale. We got good ale here. Oh, thank you, Mistress Good All. It's great. Good ale. Good all. I love it. Then you have Lamberts, who were lamb herders. The Hogarths, or the Hogarths even, were in charge of the hogs, the pigs.

And then you have the animals, who were a really important part of the medieval livelihoods. You've got the tanners and the skinners, the barker. The barker would soak the hides in water with crushed oak bark. That was the idea. The glover collected skins for the work. The croucher used to stuff cushions with the hair from the animals. The fat was sold to the chandler, the candle maker. Oh, you've got so many.

Salters, wit bread from white bread. Fowler, they used to, you know, purvey the chickens. This is extraordinary. So most of our surnames date back thousands, well, a thousand years, basically. So many of them. And they are either places or derivatives of other names, like Johnson being son of John, Stevenson, son of Stephen, all of that. Or they are these trades and professions. Professional names.

Fletchers made arrows, the archers, obviously, as well. The spears, they were the spearmen. Law. People called law to do with the law. Yeah, they worked in the law. Exactly. And the constable was the count of the stable. They were in charge of the stable. And then you have the entertainers as well, who would kind of entertain the lords. So you've got the harpers and the whistlers and the pipers, etc.

Harper. Yeah. Harper. Yeah. Harper actually comes back from someone who played the harp. And the luther, luther was in French you still have luthier, the maker of lutes. So Martin Luther King had somewhere in his ancestry a maker of lutes. As in Martin Luther, of course. As in Martin Luther himself, of course. Absolutely.

Ionea Luther. Hopper, probably a spirited performer on stage. The Trumper, the trumpet blower. And then you've got the members of the clergy. Prescott, that meant somebody who dwelled at the priest's cottage. The press for the priests and cot cottage. Gosh, and you do have people called priests, don't you? And bishops.

And bishops and parson. There were two bishops in bed. Which one wore the nightie? Mrs. Bishop. And so it goes on. So it's completely fascinating. I think it's glorious. I love the games we can play with names.

Another day, we must also, I hope, investigate the first names that also mean things. Yeah, we must do first names. Because Abigail, I know, is also a word for a lady's maid. Yes. Susie, you used the expression the other day, nominative determinism. What does that mean? Nominative determinism is where your surname somehow absolutely matches what you do, who you are. We mentioned Johnson at the beginning.

You may or may not think that somebody called Johnson is a penis. As you say, we're totally apoliscal. Dick is a euphemism for that. Oh, just like the one I've genuinely come across, the consultant gynaecologist at the Highgate Hospital, who I think is genuinely called Ms Fanny, F-A-N-I, Cocker, K-O-K-K-A. That is wonderful. And there's another one, a marine biologist, who is called Helen Scales.

These are real people with these real names. OK, I've got one here. Yes. These were all collected from PopBitch, I think, the website. They've come up with some fantastic ones here. from PopBitch, I think, the website. They've come up with some fantastic ones here. The male reproduction biologist who's trialling a new contraceptive pill for men,

Dr. Christina Wang. Well, what about this one? The senior nurse endoscopist at the Imperial College Healthcare Trust is Paula Swallow. Australian cameraman for ABC, Les Seymour. The group director of travel retail for Thomas Cook, Lars Bording. Excellent.

That is, they're very neat, aren't they? There are some really good ones. Please do, if you have any good examples of people who somehow fulfil their name in a good or bad way, let us know. We'd love to hear them. Good. Have you got my three words? I say my three words. Have you got your three words to share with us?

Every week, if you're new to the podcast, what happens is we talk about a theme quite loosely and we invite your contributions if you have any. And you simply send them to us at purple at something else dot com and something is spelled without a G. And Susie always comes up with three intriguing words. What's your trio for today, Susie? I just like this one. It's not very much to say about it. I just think it's quite beautiful. To darkle is to grow dark. We talk about the darkling. Yes. Well, we don't anymore. The Darkling Thrush is a famous poem, isn't it?

Darkle, to darkle, to grow darker. Hmm. Okay. Now, mention trumperiness at the beginning and also trumpery finery, which was one of my grandmother's favourite terms. Trumpery finery, again, something a bit of a showy trifle, but not worth very much. This goes with the fandango. Oh, I love.

Not the fandango, but the fandango. But you can talk about the fandango if you like. No, I love fandango. What is your word, fandango? Fandangle. What is a fandango? A fandango is an extravagantly fanciful ornament. Oh, beautiful fandangle. And my final one, because we are still in the summer, is the opposite of hibernate. And we know what hibernating is,

and some of us feel like hibernating throughout the cold months. But if you go into a state of torpor and suspended animation during the summer, you are estivating. Because esti, I thought was spring. Estivus in Latin was summer. Summer. Estivus is summer. A-E-S-T-I-V-U-S. And hiber is from hiver, which is hiver or winter. Which is winter, hibernum, yeah.

So you hibernate in the winter, you estivate. Estivate. And is that E-S-T-E or I? E-S-T-I-V-A-T-E. Estivate. Estivate. And is that E-S-T-E or I? E-S-T-I-V-A-T-E. Estivate. Well, it's time for us to estivate for another week as the day darkles. I want to go and polish my fandangles. And I hope...

Now I'm having the giggles. This has been a day when we've had the giggles between the pair of us. Lovely words there. Lovely spending time with you, my friend. And that's all we've got for this week from Something Rhymes with Purple. There'll be more next Tuesday. Who knows what we'll be talking about then. But I do hope you'll join us. If you've quite liked it, give us a nice review. Recommend us to a friend. And if you've got a question you'd like to ask us or just want to get in touch, you can email us at purple at something else. That's something else without a G in it dot com.

Something Rhymes with Purple is a Something Else production produced by Paul Smith with additional production from Lawrence Bassett, Steve Ackerman and Gulliver. Oh, dear old Gulliver. I'm going home to fuck some butter.