Something Rhymes with Purple - Introducing: Legacy

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankopan tell the wild stories of some of the most extraordinary men and women ever to have lived – and ask whether they have the rep they deserve. Should Nina Simone’s role in the civil rights movement be more celebrated than it is? When you find out what Picasso got up to in his studio, can you still admire his art? Was Napoleon a hero or a tyrant - or both? (And, while we’re at it, was he even short?) Legacy is the show that looks at big lives from the perspective of now – and doesn’t always like what it sees. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, Purple People. It's Susie and Giles here to tell you that there's a new podcast from Wondery and Goalhanger that's just launched, and we think you'll like it. It's called Legacy. Everybody leaves a legacy. For some, it lives on for decades, for centuries, but it also changes. Reputations are re-examined by new generations who may not like what they find. Judgments are revised. Statues start to fall. Should Nina Simone's role in the civil rights movement be more celebrated than it is? When you find out what Picasso got up to in his studio, can you still admire his art? And was Napoleon a hero or a tyrant? And while we're at it, was he even short?

Hosted by writer Afua Harsh and historian Peter Frankopan, Legacy is the show that looks at big lives from the perspective of now and doesn't always like what it sees. We're about to play you a clip from season one, which examines the life of Napoleon. If you like what you hear, search and follow Legacy wherever you listen to podcasts. Napoleon, famous guy, big name, huge in France, all over the world. What do you think when you

hear about the name Napoleon? I used to be a lawyer. And when I think of Napoleon, I think of Napoleonic Code. When countries became independent from Europe, they often adopted the Napoleonic Codes. Right. I thought when you said you'd be a lawyer, you thought maybe you'd sue him. But it's about the legacy of Napoleon as a lawmaker and administrator. No battle of Waterloo? Nope. For me, he was this slightly vague figure with his arm tucked into his jacket and weird jokes about his height and the size of various other body parts that I never really understood their origin. Gosh, in the English education system,

well, you have the Battle of Hastings and then the Battle of Waterloo. You did that for months. Well, he's clearly a character that is still very much in our popular culture. And now, Peter, we have a new Ridley Scott movie starring Joachim Phoenix. And it said more books written about him than anyone else. Yeah, I heard 300,000 books. Wow. More than about Jesus Christ or Muhammad.

But look, either he's an enlightened despot or he's a great modernizer. He's a codifier of laws. He's a military hero. He's an enslaver. A lot of baggage. And maybe you could argue paved the way for all sorts of things that are slightly unexpected that we're going to talk about too. But let's try to figure this out.

And for this, we're going to take you back in time to a crucial moment in Napoleon's life. The year is 1815. It's the 7th of March, just after six in the morning. We're in the Alps, in the southeast of France. In the morning sun, snow-capped peaks loom over a column of men and horses as it moves along a narrow mountain pass. Hooves and boots stamp a steady rhythm,

punctuated with the clatter of kits and arms on carts and backs. Napoleon's collar is turned up against the alpine chill. He breathes in the pine-centred air. There's nowhere he'd rather be. He's with his men. They are marching towards their destiny. They are few in number. Napoleon has commanded much greater forces,

but they are his. He senses a change in pitch in the voices ahead, and the steady stamping of the men's feet slowing, then stopping, as word travels back through the ranks. Royalists. Some spit the word out with distaste. But there's fear too. Napoleon can always sense it.

He breathes out slowly, straightens his back, and pushes through his men to the front of the column. No one says a word. He can hear a stream, snow-heavy branches creaking and his own boots crunching on the path. Otherwise, silence. The royalist soldiers have formed a defensive position, some kneeling, some standing, their muskets are raised, and they are pointing at him. He thinks he sees some of them smile or snarl. He throws back his head, stretches out his arms and roars, If you want to kill your emperor, here I am.

And waits for the shots. Listen to Legacy now, wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can listen early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.