Something Rhymes with Purple - Pumpernickel

Episode Date: July 30, 2019

It’s breakfast time! The linguistic adventures of some of our favourite foods. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Something else. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Welcome to Something Rhymes with Purple. With me, Susie Dent, sitting opposite in my kitchen, Giles Brandreth, who is smiling at me with a cup of coffee in front of him. Cup of tea, actually. A cup of tea. I gave up coffee about coffee in front of him. Cup of tea, actually. I was a cup of tea. I gave up coffee about three years ago because of acid reflux. Oh, lovely.

We should start on a rather personal note. But I was getting sort of chest pains. Oh, it's a heart attack. It's a heart attack. My wife said, oh, for God's sake. Oh, God. But I went to the doctor and it turned out to be acid reflux.

I had those things. They put things down your gullet. Endoscopy. Is that an endoscopy? I think it, or was it the other endoscopy? It's a colonoscopy. Anyway, I've had them. You've had everything.

I mean, I began to sound like Kenneth Williams. Up here, down there. Anyway, it turned out to be nothing more exciting than acid reflux. Though acid reflux can be serious, but mine wasn't the serious kind. Good. So, but the guy said maybe you know cut back at the coffee okay so i gave up you were addicted to coffee every time you texted me you said i'm sitting in a particular coffee shop you were addicted to what okay starbucks and uh yeah

you it was starbucks was in moby dick by the way i did of course that's the origin of the name yeah that's where starbucks comes from but this is relevant isn't it because today we are talking but i have to finish i'm sorry we'll get on to food in a moment just because there will be people That's the origin of the name. Yeah, that's where Starbucks comes from. But this is relevant, isn't it? Because today we are talking about food. But I have to finish. I'm sorry. We'll get on to food in a moment. Just because there will be people who've also got chest pains, upper chest pains, particularly when they lie down and think, oh, my God, it's not a heart attack.

It's acid reflux. I gave up coffee. Three weeks of withdrawal symptoms. Oh. Terrifying. What happened? Headaches? Headache, migraines, pains in the leg. I couldn'tifying. What happened? Headaches? Headache, migraines, pains in the leg.

I couldn't sleep at night. Restless legs, anyway. And I don't wish to use the, well, I have to use the word, constipation, the like of which honestly made me realise how awful it must be to be wanting to have a baby but not being ready to have a baby.

It was terrible. It was terrible, terrible, terrible. So I'm never going to drink another cup of coffee again for fear of going back to have a baby. It was terrible. It was terrible, terrible, terrible. So I'm never going to drink another cup of coffee again for fear of going back to those withdrawal symptoms. Going back to that constipation. So it's a cup of tea here. Cup of tea. I'm glad to hear it.

This has got nothing to do with food, but it reminds me of a time when I couldn't hold it together on countdown. Nobody else found it funny and probably none of our listeners will either. But the word costive came up. C-O-S-T-I-V-E. Yes, for seven and

the dictionary defines it as one unforthcoming two constipated for some reason i found that hilarious and there's a little school girl in you isn't there yeah i'm afraid very sniggery even rachel didn't laugh at that one and she always makes me corpse on the show anyway uh enough of constipation because actually we're talking about food today and i know they're related but we're going to talk about nice food i hope we have positive effect upon your body hopefully what is your favorite meal well i'm veggie so it would probably be some kind of spicy veggie sri lankan curry. That would be mine. How about you? My favourite meals are undoubtedly breakfast and afternoon tea. I love breakfast. I love breakfast.

I am also now a veggie. And when I need to lose weight, I'm a low-carb veggie. My low-carb rule is no bread, rice, pasta or potatoes. You will lose two pounds a week if you follow that regime and so during those weeks my breakfast consists of a chunk of cheese with some marmite on it an avocado cut into little squares we have to talk about avocados they're related to testicles tomato oh thank you a tomato cut into four yes i love apples and And a boiled egg cut in half. Okay.

So that's what I would have for breakfast. Two things to pick up there. One is breakfast. We never think about breakfast. It's such an obvious word. It's when we break our fast. It just wears its heart on its head. The fast of the night, as it were.

Exactly. And avocados, I have to mention this. It may have some religious connotation as well, because when I was a child and used to go to France on exchange holidays, I was brought up as an Anglican, but we went to the Catholic church because that was the family. On Sunday, you couldn't have breakfast until you had been to Mass. The children were allowed to have cocoa or hot milk,

but the parents didn't have anything. And you couldn't break your fast until you had been to mass. So may there be some connotation there? That's very interesting. Quite possibly. Yeah. I mean, it's very, very old. So it might well have been rooted in the Christian tradition

or other religious traditions indeed. Avocado, you mentioned, because that's a mangling of an Aztec word, believe it or not, that was picked up by Portuguese explorers who couldn't of an aztec word believe it or not that was picked up by portuguese explorers who couldn't pronounce the aztec word much as i can't there's something like a heartle something like that and to them it sounded like avocado but actually that was their word for a solicitor but that didn't really matter a solicitor as in the french word a lawyer um and it slipped into english that way. And that comes from advocate, of course. Exactly, all links. But they didn't really care.

It sounded, you know, it meant the same thing. They just thought, well, it's a bit like our Jerusalem artichoke. Nothing to do with Jerusalem. But back to avocados. In sort of taking away the Aztec name, we applied a bit of a fig leaf because the name itself means testicle because of the fruit's shape. So when you're eating your half an avocado, you're actually eating a single testicle. Avocado means testicle in what language?

Well, it goes back to an Aztec word. The Aztecs called their testicles avocados. Spelled A-C-U-A-H-A-T-L. Try pronouncing that. I don't speak much Aztec, but have you seen my avocados in Aztec means have you seen my avocados? Do you know, watching this program, Naked Attraction, I've seen more... Oh, not again. No, but I'm hooked on it. I'm absolutely hooked on it. I can tell. You're obsessed.

No, I'm not. Well, I am a bit obsessed. But the point is, I'd never really seen avocados before and now it's avocado after avocado or braces of avocados night after night on this programme. Bizarre. Is this where they start from the feet and then go up? Oh, yes. Listeners, if you haven't seen this programme,

the reason I'm talking about it is I did Celebrity Gogglebox and they showed us this programme called Naked Attraction which obviously I would never have watched at home, wouldn't have dared, but with Sheila Hancock, 87, and me holding hands. Anything goes. Anything goes. And you should have had Sheila on it.

It was absolutely hilarious. So we've learnt that about avocado. So what are the words that fascinate you to do with food? Okay, well, should we start with breakfast? Please. As we've introduced that. So coffee, are you a fan of? I. As we've introduced that. So, coffee? Are you a fan of...

I used to be. What were we talking about this time? I used to be a coffee... Sorry. You know, putting stuff together. I'm Giles Brandenburg. This is Something Rhymes with Purple. It's a podcast.

She's on drugs. She's on drugs. This is what has driven her. Oh, dear. She's having a bit of a midlife crisis. Yeah. It's too much. Her tour, countdown, it's all overwhelming her.

It's all too much. She's now's all overwhelming her too much she's down taking off her glasses uh i'm crying she's actually she's actually weeping okay what are you going to tell us now uh should we start with breakfast let's start with breakfast and coffee i used to love coffee yes you did didn't you uh so that goes back to an Arabic word. It actually referred to a type of wine originally. It came into Europe from Turkish in the early 17th century and then coffee shops were introduced and it became all the rage. Hold on. But obviously there are lots of types of coffee.

Forgive me, there was a coffee that was, the word coffee comes from Arabia, some part of the Middle East. Yes, it's Arabic. It originally referred to a type of wine. How does it get from being a type of wine to being the drink we know as coffee made from coffee beans? Because it's a stimulant, I think, is the idea. I think that is the idea. So there was a stimulating wine called coffee.

Yes. And they thought, hey, we've got these beans that if we roast them and put water on them, it's a stimulating drink. It's like coffee, the wine, or it's coffee, and it became called coffee. And coffee came to Western Europe and to the British Isles in post-Elizabethan times. I mean, I associate coffee shops with people like Dr. Johnson, which is the 17th century.

Yeah, so we're talking about four centuries, really. Over the last four centuries, we've been able to buy our coffee from coffee houses and shops and bars, etc. And what is interesting is that the coffee shop became popular. We think of it as a very modern phenomenon. You know, in the part of West London where I live, there's a sign at the end of my street saying, this is the last, come in here, this is the last coffee shop for 10 metres. There are so many coffee shops.

There are. But coffee shops have been around in metropolitan places for centuries. For a long time. Now, coffee has had its detractors. So not everybody has agreed with this. It was seen as being not quite as bad as gin, public advice number one. But there's something that stimulated it a little bit too far. Oh, it's simply disgusting.

So some of its nicknames you'll find ninny broth, mud, and syrup of soot. So some people might actually agree with that. But, of course, we need to talk about the different types of things as well. So espresso famously mispronounces expresso. I think people think it comes to you quickly or it comes out of the machine quickly. Espresso means pressed because the coffee grounds are pressed. Oh, it doesn't have anything to do with speed. No, nothing to do with speed.

Oh, that's good. Espresso is a pressed coffee, yeah. It's a pressed coffee. What's cappuccino? It's not cappuccino. It goes back to the cappuccino monks famously because the colour of their robes and their habits were the same as that of a cup of cappuccino.

Very good. Macchiato means stained because there's a tiny, tiny bit of milk that stains the coffee. Oh, macchiato is stained. I wouldn't want, if I knew that, I wouldn't have one. Macchiato. Well, if you think of immaculate or the macula of your eye, it all goes back to the idea of a single stain. I didn't know that.

Or immaculate means having no stain. Having no stain. And the macula is the single spot in your eye, is it? Yes. And what about a dirty Mac? What is a dirty Mac? Oh, the dirty Mac. Sorry.

I was thinking that's a new kind of coffee. I've not tried that one. Oh, yeah. It could be. Actually, I'll have a dirty Mac. I'll have a dirty Mac. Oh. What do you think?

Do you think they serve you at McDonald's a dirty Mac and it's a big Mac with an aubergine sticking out? Yes. Silence was deserved for that, I believe. And that is what it got. So, croissant. Do you like croissant? I love a croissant. I try to steer clear of too many of them though

when I'm on a low carb diet. Yes. Because they haven't got a lot of protein in. So this morning on my way to you, I had a croissant, because I know there'll be no food here. I had a croissant with cheese and tomato. Oh, that sounds nice. Which was delicious. That sounds very nice.

What is the origin of croissant? Croissant simply, as you would guess, from the French crescent, because that is the shape of a croissant. So simple as that. We have mentioned cereal. Do you like cereal? Not really. Well, I went through a muesli phase. Yeah, I make my own.

Not that anybody really wants to hear about that, but they might want to hear about where cereal comes from, because it's really had such lofty beginnings and has really been reduced to Coco Pops, which is a bit of a comedown when you realise that Cereal goes back to Ceres, the goddess of fertility, linked to the spring, et cetera. Ceres, C-E-R-E-S, the goddess of spring. Well, yes.

And that's when, is it where the crops are coming up? And you can see the barley, the oats are growing. Yes. And that's when, as it were, the crops are coming up and you can see the barley, the oats are growing. Yes. And that was the lovely goddess Ceres. Yes. She was a goddess of agriculture and fertility, so sort of burgeoning growth. So, you know, you can see spring there.

But she was honoured in May, in fact, at this festival. It was April and May, and it and was a seven day festival in april um which there were chariot races um you know sort of amazing sacrifices made as a tribute to her so if you if you consider that beginning and then go back to cornflakes it's can you imagine how far we've come well actually when you're in the mood cornflakes well. Well, that's true. Cornflakes and banana. With white sugar, actually a chopped banana, and really cold milk. Yeah. Can be quite a taste sensation.

That's true. But I haven't had it for years. I love it. I remember those. Go, go, Pops. Read all about it. Bread. Should we talk about a little bit of bread things? What's the origin of muesli? The word muesli, where does that come from? Muesli is simply Swiss, and it is something I'm going to have to look up actually i know it's swiss while you're looking it up i don't know if there was a man called mr muesli i doubt it there is a

a breakfast food in switzerland called the swiss kiss oh it's a swiss miss forgive me it's swiss miss it's a swiss miss it's a kind of muesli you can buy called Swiss Miss. Have you been to Switzerland? A long time ago. In your younger snogging days, were you ever the victim? Embraced by a Swiss Miss? No. Well, anything is possible. No, did you ever enjoy a Swiss kiss? Do you know what a Swiss kiss is?

I have no idea. A Swiss kiss. You know what a French kiss is? I do. Well, a Swiss kiss is a French kiss through which you yodel. It makes a terrible noise and there's a slight aftertaste of Emmental, but I do assure you it's huge fun. Let's move quickly on.

I have now looked up muesli, German regional Swiss formulation. It's a diminutive of a regional variant. So this is Swiss dialect, mues meaning stew or stewed fruit. So little stewed fruit. So little stewed fruit. So obviously that was what it was first. Little stewed. So muesli actually means little stewed fruits. Little stewed fruit.

I love muesli. Little stewed fruit. Especially when it's got an umlaut on it. Me being a lover of German. Oh, would that be on the U? That slipped off now. Muesli. Because the umlaut, the U-M-L-A-U-T,

are the two little lines that go above certain vowels. In German. And they change the pronunciation. They do. Muesli. But we don't tend to keep them in... Muesli is how it would be. In English.

As opposed to muesli. Muesli is with the umlaut. Muesli is without. Might you have a... Speaking of German food, might you have a pretzel for breakfast? I love pretz not for breakfast what is a pretzel i do know what it is it's a it's a salted um bit of bread really that's then um cooked in the shape of a knot and it goes back to a latin term believe it or not brachiatus which was a kind of cake eaten on monastic days but it goes back to the Latin for folded arms,

because if you look at a pretzel, it looks like a pair of folded arms like that. Isn't that great? I love that. Oh, but this is the joy. When you next pop a pretzel into your mouth for your small talk, this is why people tune in, I may say so, to Something Rhymes with Purple, because it improves their cocktail chitter-chatter no end. Because what a come hither line. There you are dipping into

the pretzels. You catch her eye and you say, did you know that the pretzel originates from the word for folding your arms? Yeah. And what, in what language was that? That goes back to Latin. Latin, the original language of love, madam. Exactly. Halibut, speaking of... Speaking of, well, actually I used to like, I used to like... Speaking of religious associations. I used to like a kipper for breakfast, so I've never had a halibut for breakfast, but people did use to eat fish. So give me...

They did. Give me halibut. I was thinking more of the religious connection. Halibut is the holy butt, butt's being a type of flat fish. And hally was short for holy. Well, it was a sort of... That's the origin of the word halibut?

Yes, it was a holy fish. Oh, that is amazing. Yeah. Do you ever have fish for breakfast well you might have kippers might you you do when sometimes

if you go to a grand hotel and occasionally I go to a grand my wife and I will go for a sort of luxury weekend at a grand hotel which is a great treat

you know well the theory is a great treat you know sitting by the roaring log fire in the afternoon and all that

but you have a nice breakfast you go know, sitting by the roaring log fire in the afternoon and all that. But you have a nice breakfast. You go down and you have the works. And the works can include kippers because you can't do kippers at home because the house then stinks for weeks. Whereas actually it annoys me when people have kippers in the restaurant, the next table not having kippers. So I say, if I've ordered the scrambled egg, oh, I better have the kippers because they're having the kippers because the wafts all the way over. Kippers. What's the origin of kippers so i say if i've ordered the scrambled egg oh i better have the kippers because they have the kippers because the wafts all the way over kippers what's the origin of kippers um i should have been looking that up you should that's why i was waffling on story um and then we'll get on to i have no idea or etymology uncertain there you go hopefully that's why i didn't know what fascinates me is that there are so many words where it is etymology uncertain.

Nobody knows the origin of the word kipper. No. Or why there are kippers. Because it's one fish, isn't it? A kipper. Yeah. Why are they called kippers? I'll have the kippers.

You don't say, I'll have the kipper. In fact, you only want one. Oh, I would say I'll have kipper. But actually, I don't say it very often because I don't eat kipper anymore. I think they offer you kippers. I think people refer to it as kippers. Even actually, I don't say it very often because I don't eat kipper anymore. I think they offer you kippers. I think people refer to it as kippers. Even if it's one?

Even if it's just one. Interesting. What about cake? Do you have cake for breakfast? Very, very rarely. Okay, cake for tea then. Should we move on to tea because that's your favourite? We can move on to tea.

Yes, let's move on. Will you come back to lunch? Should we have a break and then do tea after? Let's have some breakfast. Let's have our breakfast break and then have some tea. What we're promising you now is the origin of cake after the ad break. Well, types of cake particularly. Oh, have some Madeira, Madeira. We're going to settle the question, scone or scone?

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Visit amex.ca slash yamx. Benefits vary by card. Terms apply. We're back. Susie has been egging me on to talk about things other than breakfast, but I won't because I'm a breakfast person. I might last to talk a bit about cake, but I want to keep the other meals for another day. I often have cake for breakfast. Tell me, but I actually, I said egging me on. What's the origin of egging me on? Because I always have eggs for breakfast when I can. Yeah, nothing to do with eggs. Everything to

do with the Viking word, eggian, which meant to incite somebody to do something or to urge somebody on. So egging someone on is urging someone on. Yes, nothing. All to do with the Vikings, not to do something or to urge somebody on so egging someone on is urging someone on yes nothing all to do with the vikings not to do with eggs oh gosh you live and learn then of course you die and forget it all but meanwhile you feel enriched by it on to cakes you have cake for breakfast i do sometimes and yet you look when they say so so slim one shouldn't make personal remarks but you are looking very slim well as you know i always try to put weight on so i know this sounds wonderful to some people but actually it's really annoying i can look really gaunt if i don't eat so cake for breakfast is actually quite handy and what are your favorite cakes well it depends i mean would you call a pan a raisin a cake a pan

or raisin i'd call it a kind of pastry or croissant all right okay but well i'm not averse to a bit of Victoria's Punch. Because pa means bread. O means of. That's why we have a panier. Let's talk about bread. Companion, somebody with whom you eat your bread. Companion. Yes, mess. Pa is in the middle of it.

The word for bread, companion. Food is everywhere. Okay, so a mate was somebody with whom you ate meat. And meat actually once meant all food. So when you talk about one man's meat is another man's poison, that's referring to meat as all food. That was the first Anglo-Saxon meaning of meat, just as deer meant all animals.

So before they needed to really differentiate, meat meant everything. So that was... So you're mate. You're mate. You're my mate. That means we eat meat together and meat means everything. So we can be a couple of veggies actually eating meat and we're mates.

You're also my companion because we... We break bread together. We break bread together. And the breaking of bread, that is religious in origin, is it? Because of the breaking of the bread in the Bible? But it was simply somebody... Last supper and all that? Who you alongside... You sat.able as opposed to a parasite parasite uh from the greek meaning

sitting beside somebody and pinching their food that was the first first meaning of a parasite with somebody who literally sat beside you at the dinner table and pinched your scram so you wouldn't do that if you're a companion not really really. Back to cake. What is the origin of the word cake before we get on to the specific types? Cake itself, not so interesting. It's probably the Old Norse kaka, which I know has got other implications. Horrid meaning in French. Kaka was the sort of rude word when I was a child for boo. Exactly.

But you'll find it in lots of different things. You'll find it in kuchen, you know, the German. Kuchen for cooking. ...German cake. Not linked to the Latin coquerelle to cook, which is what people used to think.

Oh, so cake has got nothing to do with cooking. Not in that sense, no. It doesn't go back to the Latin for that. Yeah. So cake, cookies, cookies obviously are cooked.

Biscuits means twice cooked in French because it's referred to savoury and sweet biscuits. But cook is not connected with cake. Cook is connected with biscuits because biscuit is twice cooked in French. Yes. It's subtle stuff, this. What is your favourite cake?

My favourite cake is probably the Victoria sponge, named after? Queen Victoria. Of course. Until our present queen, the longest serving British monarch. And was it made for her, Victoria sponge? Was it made to celebrate one of her? It was named for her. Apparently she was keen to have a slice with her afternoon cup of tea. She was a great and good woman. You know, she smoked the occasional cigarette. Did you ever meet her? Fun enough, no. But I once went to a seance where she appeared. Oh, yeah.

Oh, you can't do that. What did she say? We are not amused. She was nothing if not predictable. Queen Victoria. What about the pack book? Okay. No, no.

Queen Victoria had a cake named in her honour. She had some great chefs who worked for her. People like Escoffier. It's the same sort of period, isn't it? And they created dishes. And the Victoria sponge was named in her honour. And she enjoyed the Victoria sponge. I was going to say that she also enjoyed, oddly enough, the occasional cigarette.

Oh, did she? There's a photograph of Queen Victoria smoking a cigarette on a picnic in Scotland I think it was to keep off the midges but she was a woman full of surprises. The Battenberg

where does that come from? Invented for the marriage of Louis of Battenberg into the British royal family in the 1880s. In the 1880s this is the grandfather of the Duke of Edinburgh.

I've never really liked a Battenberg cake. It's the one with sort of different colours and it's got marzipan involved, I think. It has. And I'm not a marzipan person, but you'll know the origin of marzipan. It's interesting, all of this, because if you listen to the wonderful Wittertainment podcast, they talk a lot about Battenberg cake. Okay, marzipan is either a borrowing from German or a borrowing from Italian. That's helpful. So either marzipan in German or okay marzipan is either a borrowing from german or a borrowing from italian that's helpful so either marzipan in german or italian marzipan and ultimately it goes marzipan

it does sound like the pens is advancing doesn't it marzipan here they come either way it goes back to the city of martapan fame from martaban famous for the glazed jars it exported containing preserves and sweetmeats. Martapan. Very interesting. That's the origin of Martapan. Marmalade has got quite an interesting history because there's a story, apocryphal as it turns out, attached to it, that it's saying with royal connections that it comes from a connection with Mary, the Queen of Scots. Mary, Queen of Scots.

Marie est malade. She is ill. And the story goes that because she was ill, it was thought that a jar of preserves, something sweet might restore her to health. In fact, it goes back to Portuguese for quince, because that's what the first marmalades were made out of. Marmalade, quince.

Well, as we spread the marmalade on our toast. Yes. Let's raise our glasses to confuse one toast with another. Why is a toast called a toast? It is actually to do with toast, the toasted bread, isn't it? To do with little pieces of spiced bread that were added to rather cheap wine in order to enhance its flavour. And when you toast somebody, the idea is that the company enhances the flavour of the gathering in the same way as the spiced toast enhances the flavour of the drink. Well, the company we keep, and now we know Companion, comes from the people you're happy

to break bread with. We are very happy to keep the company of our listeners who, I'm very pleased to say, get in touch on a regular basis sending in queries. Occasionally, they say nice things about me, but mostly they are asking specific questions of Susie Dent because they know she has all the answers. Let me pass this to you. You pick one of the questions out of our lucky dip bag. We have listeners all over the world, by the way. Thank you very much. People from Australia and the United States, I know, are tuning in.

There's somebody in, I think, Dubai who is listening on top of the Burj Al Arab, which is pretty impressive. I don't know if Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum listens, but I hope he does. Well, as we're talking about food, there's some quite nice things here. It's actually less a question and more a lovely comment. Who's it from? From Nathan in Melbourne. Nathan in Melbourne? Yes, in Melbourne.

It says, here in Australia, it seems we have a special relationship with slang, and following are a couple to add to the bags of mystery. Bags of mystery for those who remember were old slang, was old slang for sausages. A sausage. Because you never knew what was in them. Is a bag of mystery. I sometimes have bangers and mash. Bangers at breakfast.

I used to have veggie ones now. But what's the origin of bangers? Simply because we think they go bang in the pan. When they, you know, if they're not pricked, then they might pop. There's a song in that. Let's go bang in the pan, bang in the pan. If you're not pricked in that. Okay, on we go.

Okay. It's because we're going to do theatre next week. We are. Musical theatre, I hope. We'll be singing. A couple of classics that Nathan has sent on. Rat Coffin for meat pie. A rat coffin?

Bum N nuts for eggs. Now, I know in the Marines they call them cackle farts, so that's not too dissimilar. Bum nuts for eggs. There's Aussie slang for eggs. Yes. Pass us the bum nuts. Yes.

And snot block for a vanilla slice. Love the podcast, by the way, Nathan. Well, thank you. Not sure I like many of those. What was the last one? I'm sorry. Snot block for a vanilla slice. Snot block. by the way, Nathan. Well, thank you. Not sure I like many of those. Snot. What's the last one? I'm sorry. Snot block for a vanilla slice. Snot block. I have no idea why.

No, because that, no, no, no. Because what happens? Have you ever eaten a vanilla slice? I have. Yeah, it all gets up your nose. Is that creme patissiere type? Yes, you're spooning it up to your face and it all gets stuck in your nose. I don't know if we've had a commercial break yet, but if Magnum want to advertise, we would welcome them advertising because which one do you go for i go for the vegan classic oh it is a sensation you know where magnum got the idea for making magnums tom selleck no not bad okay close you're warmer than you think roger moore

roger moore as a child used to love choc-ices, as I did. And choc-ices used to come in a little silver wrapping. But it's quite messy to eat. And so he thought, why aren't they on a stick, like a lollipop? So he wrote to the ice cream company that made choc-ices, saying, this is 50 years ago when he was in the Saint or something, saying, what about creating a nice chalk ice on a stick? And they wrote back saying, excellent idea, Mr. Moore.

And that's the origin. It's because of the Moores rather than the Magnums, but I guess Magnum makes more sense. Magnum is pretty good anyway. Oh, of course, there were people. I mean, some people would eat anything at breakfast. I remember being in Texas once and people were eating steaks for breakfast. They were having Bloody Marys.

American breakfast, yeah. Steaks, Bloody Marys, and smoking cigars. What about that? Cigars? Well, look, we have a question from Chris Harris. Dear Susie and Giles, I recall CSI commenting on how the term close but no cigar came into being. And Chris is absolutely right.

It goes back to American fun fairs where the prize, believe it or not, I'm not sure if it was offered to kids, was a cigar quite often. If you hit the target, if the, what's the thing that if you hit a hammer, what shoots up? What's it called? You hit the hammer and a thing like a going boing at the top. If you hit it hard enough, prize would be a cigar. So if you didn't quite make the target, you were close, but you didn't get a cigar.

Oh, so what's it called? Close but no cigar. Close but no cigar. Yes. I love it. It's good, isn't it? I love everything that you know. And part of the program that many people love the most is where we have your trio.

And the idea of Something Rhymes with Purple is basically we chit-chat about the language and if you like what we say, you tell your friends. If you don't, well, there we are. Fuck you. That's the point. And Susie always gives us a trio of words, either words that we've not come across before or words that we're very familiar with, like swan song, and gives us which amazes us what have you got for us this week okay well i have pumpernickel you might possibly like a bit of pumpernickel bread i love pumpernickel yes uh

actually it goes back to the german for farting demon because it's supposed to make you quite windy i no longer like pumpernickel i loved pumpernickel. I loved pompernickel until just now. Pumpernickel means farting demon. Pumper in French is a bit of a windy pop. We have pump as well, don't we? Let's move swiftly on. No, pump and where's the nickel? Nickel, yes. Now that means demon in German. So the ore, you know, the ore nickel, the sort of silvery metal. As in the nickel coin, as it were, which may have some nickel in it. Absolutely right. That was a shortening of kupfer nickel, which was the copper-coloured ore

from which nickel was first obtained. But also, very often, miners would chance upon something that they thought was silver and precious metal, but in fact it turned out to be nickel. And so nickel was the sort of the demon ore that they really didn't want, but that was there in plentiful supply, if that makes any sense at all. Pumpernickel means a... Farting demon. A farting demon. Yes.

Well, that's put us off pumpernickel, but it's put us in a good frame of mind. Any more? Yes. The next thing, the elegant little cake called the Madeleine. The Madeleine. The Madeleine. La Madeleine. Really nice.

Now... Is that the one in the famous, in the Proust novel? À la recherche du temps perdu. And the Madeleine brings back memories. You just smell the Madeleine and all sorts of memories come back. In fact, Madeleine goes back to Mary Magdalene, believe it or not. So it was named in her honour. Now, Mary Magdalene gave us the word Maudlin because in pictures and in art,

she is often portrayed as crying and being quite weak. So Maudlin as in M-A-U-D-L-I-N. Yes. Now, remember, there was confusion between the pronunciations of those because the Oxford College, Magdalene College is actually pronounced Maudlin. Oh, persons from Porlock

will explain that expression in a moment. There's a knock at the door. This podcast is produced. I hate it being produced because it actually ought to be free-flowing. It means they edit out little bits because apparently there are moments when we get libelous or slanderous. But you must not cut this bit out because there's somebody at the door.

Well, if she's signing something at the door, maybe she's ordered a nice little lunch for us because, frankly, I've looked at the fridge, it's empty. Empty, the whole place is empty. It's like the Marie Celeste here because she spends all her time up in Manchester making Countdown, just comes home occasionally,ens the fridge. There is some sort of few breakfast things, a bit of

pumpernickel, some milk going off. You can hear her in the background chatting to the deliveroo man. He's coming back in. Who was that, Susie? That was a deliverer. A deliverer? Of school uniform. Of school uniform. Oh, not in one

of those parties again are you it's so passe totally 80s please honestly so right where were we

we were on the big question of the day scone or scone oh have we finished what we were last doing yeah I think

we've heard enough about no no you had to give us the third of your yes oh that is it it's scone scone is my forgive me so we've had... Scone is my...

Forgive me. So we've had... Okay. Pumpernickel. Pumpernickel. Madeleine. Madeleine, the French cake. And now scone.

Yes. Oh, is it scone? Exactly. What is the answer? You're going to hate me. Either. Either? Either.

Let's call the whole thing off. It could be either or either. Yes. Why is this? The dictionary will give thing off. It could be either or either. Yes. Why is this? The Oxford Dictionary will give you both. It depends where you live. It depends slightly on your class, apparently. But most audiences, and you will, I ask this in my show, do you say scone or scone?

And most say scone. I have to say, I say scone. Looking at Gully. Gully says scone. What do you say? I say scone. Okay, and most say scone i have to say i say scone looking at gully gully says gone what do you say i say scone okay well there you go but scone to me sounds slightly fussy but if you look at the origin it goes back to the german schoenbrot meaning fine bread so you could say that scone also in scotland you might pronounce it scone. I'll have some scones before I visit the scone of scone. Is there something called the stone of scone? Isn't there?

There is. There is a different thing. When both Susie Dent and I have recently been on tour, and I'm going back on tour, more of that in a moment. Yeah, me too. I'm doing that. Oh, you're doing that. They can't get enough of us.

Or perhaps we can't get enough of them. I think that's true. It's actually rather sad at our age still to be needing love and approbation let alone acclimation but we both went to shrewsbury or shrewsbury which do you think it should be can you believe that i talk about words in my tour not one person said how do you pronounce shrewsbury or shrewsbury yeah which is the correct one it can be either right It can in a way. They all say Shrewsbury, don't they?

They do. There is a river near there known as the Shrew. Okay. So maybe it is Shrewsbury. And essentially what people seem to do is the people who live in the town only call it Shrewsbury. The people who have children at the boys' public school, which may now take girls, call it Shrewsbury. So there is a kind of class thing in there. Shrewsbury or Shrewsbury. The people in the street call it Shrewsbury. So there is a kind of class thing in there. Shrewsbury or Shrewsbury.

The people in the street call it Shrewsbury without the R. Did you know, by the way, this is apropos of nothing, that if you are shrewd, you are like a shrew. If you're a shrewd. Forget the fact that shrew is in shrewd. Because the small mammal with the long pointy snout and the tiny eyes, it has the look of someone who is quite sort of observant and pernickety and wise. So if you're shrewd, it's because you look like a shrew.

Well, yes, that was the original. An incidental extra. By the way, final thing on scone before we say goodbye. People take a break and have their tea or indeed their midnight scone, whatever time they happen to be listening to this. I hope your mouth is watering. The great debate, jam or cream indeed their midnight scone, whatever time they happen to be listening to this. I hope your mouth is watering. The great debate, jam or cream first on your scone? For me, because my father lives in Devon, it's got to be jam first.

I thought that was Cornwall. No, I think that's Devon. I think that's Cornwall. Really? Dawn French, I hope she's listening. She will tell us. She's completely obsessive about this. I personally think you're wrong then.

I say it's cream first and jam on top, because the cream is the equivalent of butter. You're right. In Devon, typically spread the glossy cream first. Well, now I'm afraid I'm with Cornwall, then. Yeah, you're with Cornwall. She doesn't know anything. She comes on this.

I know I like scones. It shows you how bluff and bluster can get you a long way in life. How many years have we been in dictionary corner? I'm a bloviator. A blob, what does that mean? That can be my extra for the trio of words. A bloviator is somebody full of inflated and empty rhetoric. A blower of hot air. That's me. Thank you. That's Susie Dent. I don't recognise that description when it comes to me at all. I'm Giles Brandreth. Look,

if you enjoyed the podcast today, review us, if you would, rate us, help spread the word, and then we can go on chatting to you. If you want to tweet us or email us at purple at somethingelse.com. Do you know what? The Queen likes jam first. The Queen likes jam first. On that note. If it's good enough for the Queen, it's good enough for us. Something Rhymes with Purple is a Something Else production. It was produced, sort of, by Paul Smith,

with additional production from Lawrence Bassett, Steve Ackerman, and Gali.