Something Rhymes with Purple - Thunderplump

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

We’re talking about the weather today. Not because we have nothing to say. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Susie Dent. Lovely to be with you again, Susie. And thank you very much, if I may say so, so for these delicious chewy and sweet mini flapjack bites. You're very welcome. Susie and I when we meet we usually talk about life, about love, we often talk about sex because talking about it is all we're able to do. We very rarely talk about the weather. I know that's a pretty subject. I'm just glancing at your lovely garden here there's sun and there's wind. Very windy. I know, that's a great British subject. I'm just glancing at your lovely garden here. There's sun and there's wind. Very windy. I brought my umbrella today. The rain. Yes, the rain and sunshine mix. You know what the lovely South African saying for that is? What is? Nobody knows where it comes from, but if it's raining and it's sunny, there might be a rainbow

in the sky. It's called a monkey's wedding. A monkey's wedding. Isn't that great? You know the poem. The rain, it raineth every day upon the just and unjust fella, but more upon the just because the unjust hath the just's umbrella. Wow, that's a mouthful. Now, I'm wanting some phrases to do with the weather, and I want you to, if you don't mind, if it's not too boring to talk about the weather. I quite like talking about the weather. People do talk about the weather.

British people talk about the weather. I don't know if other people do. No, we do. But I think that's partly because of our geographical position in that it's often freezing. And there's so many words up and down the country for being cold. Such as? Would you say nesh?

Feeling a bit nesh? No, I wouldn't. But I've heard it. Where does it come from? Basically, yeah, they are regional. So very much northern based. So I think the further north you go, the more... The colder it is.

Well, the colder it is and also perhaps the more drizzly. What would you call drizzle, drizzle? I'd call drizzle, drizzle. Okay. I love a lemon drizzle cake, incidentally. But drizzle, drizzle, drizzle is rain falling. Why is it called drizzle? Drizzle is probably on a mass peak.

I am not good with the cold. No, not me. I'm out filming with my friend Sheila and we've both been wearing thermals you should get one of those heated waistcoats that julia bradbury on countdown told me about oh tell me more she told me about it when she was sitting next to me on countdown well they're great you plug them in charge them overnight and then you wear them out and they're heated they're like so you know on countdown rachel and i had joint custody of a hot water bottle. That is our only rider, is a hot water bottle. Because the studio is freezing.

We're in dresses. So I'm with you. I'm a cold person. Okay, so the brass monkeys. What is the origin of the expression brass monkeys for being freezing cold? Okay. Well, there's a very famous story attached to this one, which is that there is a brass rack, or there was a brass rack aboard ships, military ships,

which was used to stack cannonballs on this rack. And the idea is the balls in extreme cold weather would contract and then would just kind of roll off. So that's the most famous theory, that it would be so cold that these balls would contract to the point where they would fall off the rack. So the origin is freezing your balls your balls off freezing your balls well actually probably yes that's another story attached to it which refers to you know there's um the three

monkeys you get them in emojis now see no evil hear no evil speak no evil um well they were quite common bit like three ducks on a wall or however many ducks there are um three three i've got them at home have you i love them my son got them yes absolutely i had nothing wrong with avocado the b day is avocado but we have got the three ducks flying up the wall because my son many years ago went to a fair and spent a fortune on the shooting range until he got all three ducks and we have but i rather like that sort of thing i like ducks flying up the wall i like garden gnomes on the shooting range until he'd got all three ducks and we have them there with pride. But I rather like that sort of thing. I like ducks flying up the wall. I like garden gnomes.

Okay. Well, you might like these three monkeys then because the idea is that they were there, they would be sitting on the mantelpiece as ornaments and it would be so cold perhaps that it would freeze their balls off. That's the other theory. What about being on cloud nine? Yes.

Just to have to interject here that a cloud was originally a rock because it goes back to the old english clod so it's actually linked to a clod of earth and because of the appearance of clouds they look like sort of little mountains in the sky it was applied to what we see up there so clouds are clods in the sky rocks in the sky because the latin word is nimbus, isn't it? And that occurs in lots of words if you are a geographer. Cumulonimbus, et cetera. So nimbus is the Latin word for cloud, but the word cloud means a rock.

And the old word was welkin. Oh, I thought welkin was the world, the top of the world. Yes, it's the heavens as well. So that was kind of then transferred to the expanse above us, but they were called welkins and to end up on cloud nine is to be in heaven i suppose on the way yes so it was really popularized by a radio show in the early 50s um in america called the johnny dollar show and the hero was um a fictional insurance investigator and he kept getting into scrapes essentially and every time

he was knocked unconscious he was transported to cloud nine and he would recover on cloud nine. But obviously, he was picking up on something that was already there in the language. But the nine is probably a little bit random because there was also cloud eight, where it was defined in one work. This is in the 1930s. If you're on cloud eight, you were befuddled on account of drinking too much liquor. And there was also cloud seven, which was thought to be the nearest to heaven so there were lots of that's kind of rhyming so it's a bit like dressed to the nines you asked me about dressed in the nines in a previous podcast i think to be honest the number may

not be too important in this i mean some say it's from uh the international cloud atlas from the 1890s and cloud nine it, was a cumulonimbus, that kind of towering fluffy mass in the sky that looks a bit like a cushion. So you would go up there. But again, the jury's out. I think it's just more likely that the number is there. The weather has come into our language in all sorts of ways.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Yes, I meant to look up and see. It's been around for years. I mean, it means probably what it says, doesn't it's been around for years i mean it means probably what it says oh exactly i mean you expect swallows to come to arrive in the summer and if one comes doesn't mean to say there is summer automatically going to be there yeah exactly i don't think it it's um you know any more important than that i'm just looking to see how old it is proverb i remember a story 1539 and it's from a Greek proverb. So really ancient, this one.

And it says here in the 1539, sorry to interrupt. It is not one swallow that bringeth in summer. It is not one good quality that maketh a man good. In other words, one good quality doesn't make you incredibly virtuous. Red sky at night, another thing that's a proverb, goes back to 1425. And it comes actually, it's based on something it was in the bible as you'll find it in um king james's bible when it is evening you say it will be fair weather for the sky is red and in the morning it will be foul weather today for the sky is red and

lowering yes these are sort of proverbial aren't they yeah but there are other expressions like oh he was three sheets to the wind that uses the weather but actually is just an expression what does three sheets the wind mean it means drunk doesn't it it does it does and yes it goes back to ships you're absolutely right and the sails on board a ship are controlled by ropes that are known as sheets and they're fixed to the lower corners of the sails to keep them in in place relative to the wind and if the sails to keep them in place relative to the wind. And if the sheets come loose, they flap about loosely and they can become completely out of control. It's a little bit like a stumbling drunk is the idea.

Three sheets to the wind. I've been to the Windy City, which is Chicago. I think Media City, I have to say, in Salford should be the Windy City. I mean, you cannot move if you go around the corner into the wind. It's extraordinary. And that's called the Wind windy city simply because it is windy absolutely um it is i have a great weather word for you it's one of my favorite words of all time and it's it's simple simply a thunder plump a thunder plump a thunder plump thunder plump is simply really heavy fat raindrops accompanied by thunder. Isn't that great? I know euphemism for a toilet used to be a thunderbox.

Yes. But that's a different story altogether. That's very different. Thunderdrops are those drops of rain, those sort of heavy, That's nice, because when you said thunderdrop, I thought of thunderbox. I'm not liking where this is going. No. And moving swiftly on, we also have thundersnow, which is a new kind of weather description, isn't it? Which is a really strange phenomenon where you have heavy snowfall accompanied by a thunderstorm which is really unusual that's called thunder snow but talking of of weather forecasts i find those really interesting because it's um weather ease is as full of kind of linguistic inflation if you

like so you know a bit of hyperbole as anything else. Have you noticed this? We'll say we're in for a lot of weather this week. What I've noticed is that as soon as they begin the weather, something in my brain switches off. And I watch it on television. I listen to it. The shipping forecast I love because it's like poetry. But the weather, sort of five to six on the TV

or on the radio late at night i i just they begin it and they burble away and they talk about these weather fronts moving from here to there and they lose me almost instantly okay they give me too much information not the same kind of comfort blanket why does that happen to one why how can you turn off sometimes their language is quite strange so an outbreak is quite outbreaks of rains outbreak is quite strange isn't it doesn't sound and also sunshine may develop seems a bit but i think they're using technical terms that actually mean something to them i possibly i met i mean they are extraordinary what they can remember because they have no script when they're looking to camera oh really they also don't have a real

map behind them no they're just people don't know this my wife is convinced they've got a real map because they really seem to be pointing to the eye of man at the right moment but in fact fact, it's a blue screen or a green screen, isn't it, behind them? Yeah, yeah. But maybe they can see it out of the corner of their eye on a television screen. On a monitor, possibly. But it is extraordinary how they remember it. And of course, they are, you know, proper meteorologists. So we mustn't diss them.

But I think the language is quite funny. And they talk about the wet stuff and the white stuff if they want to get really, you know, straight. I thought that was drudgery. I'd like some white stuff. Like the wet stuff and the white stuff, if they want to get really straight. I thought that was drudgery. I'd like some white stuff. You know, and yeah, storms take aim or packing a punch, that kind of thing. I found it quite interesting, the language of weather.

Packing a punch with the wind or a storm is going to be packing a punch this week. That's probably quite North American, but you hear that sometimes. I knew a boxer who used to tell jokes. They always packed a punch. I think it's time for a break. I think it is. Hi, I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host of the podcast Dinners on Me. I take some of my favorite people out to dinner, including, yes, my Modern Family co-stars,

like Ed O'Neill, who had limited prospects outside of acting. The only thing that I had that I could have done was organize crime. And Sofia Vergara, my very glamorous stepmom. Well, why do you want to be comfortable? Or Julie Bowen, who had very special talents. I used to be the crier. Or my TV daughter, Aubrey Anderson Emmons, who did her fair share of child stunts. They made me do it over and over and over.

You can listen to Dinners on Me wherever you get your podcasts. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick?

That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations you can now make the first move or not with opening moves you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches then sit back and let your matches start the chat download bumble and try it for yourself so we're heading into autumn aren't we which is my favorite favorite time of season of mists and meadow fruit ones, says John Keats. Sunny cold days, my absolute favourite kind of day. You know, we used to call autumn fall. We did.

We did, yes. It's not American in origin. I don't know what's the latest about the American. Jo Brand, I remember famously said, what's, you know, she said, I watch series of things, not seasons because I'm a grown up. And while we're at it it why is autumn called fall because the leaves fall down duh but actually that's what we used to call it so we called autumn fall we used to call it yeah because it is because the leaves fall i think that's quite poetic we talk about spring don't we what's and leaves springing into bud that's what that is all about yeah and

why is summer called summer then summer is called summer that doesn't have any particular so spring and autumn spring and fall are because things are springing up and they're falling down in spring and autumn but summer and and winter what are the origins of those two those are so um summer is from the german zoma so it's a word that came over with the germanic invaders and winter as well when were those germanic invaders oh they were they were right at the beginning of english so we had the germanic invaders with the angles and the saxons um coming over with their language i mean remember that that we are a complete mismatch yeah so winter is scott cognates as we call them or similar words in scandinavian icelandic german

you name it so nothing nothing to do with actual weather phenomena. Now, there are differences between our language and the American language, and I'm reminded of that because we've had some interesting correspondence this week. Logan Watkins sends us salutations from Louisiana. Simple question. Why do we in America say Z and most, if not all, of the other English-speaking nations say Z? Sincerely, Logan. P.S.

And I'm not inventing this, Susie. P.S. Susie is my current brain crush. Oh, thank you, Logan. I always say that Arsene Wenger is my brain crush. That's very kind of you. So why do Americans say Z and we say Z? Well, the name given

to us to the letter since the norman conquest has been z and that literally since 1066 we've been calling the last letter of the alphabet z so why on earth do the americans call it well it says the name z now standard this is the oed again my bible the the name z now standard in the u.s of course appears to have had some early currency in england which is quite interesting so both of them coexisted as so often with the words that the things that we think of as being exclusively um so both z and fall could actually have started here and gone out to america with the pilgrim fathers absolutely yeah so it's not it's nothing to be scared of or to hate because both of them are equally valid. I would say.

Yes, I've heard from Adam Cooperman, another American fan. He says, in my country, pudding almost exclusively is used to refer to desserts. And then usually in a chocolate or vanilla or butterscotch variety, i.e. angel delight type thing. He says, I know in other parts of the world, there are many more varieties of pudding. I've read that the origins of the word are more closely tied to sausage. So how did it come to mean all these desserts? And why is it used so narrowly in the US? Well, not just narrowly, really. We have black pudding in this country, don't we, which is to do with sausages. But otherwise, we also would use pudding for dessert, I think. I think correctly. If I were, as it were,

the period advisor on Downton Abbey. You'd say pudding. I would say you don't revert. Dessert will be, is what, I don't know if you have at the very end of the meal, maybe when you move to another room, you would go and have fruit. And with your port or Madeira, that would be dessert. But the dish at the last course of the meal is called a pudding always. So even if it's an ice cream, it's a pudding. Well, Adam is absolutely right that it does have a connection with sausage

because puddings were originally entirely savoury. And it does go back to boudin, which in French is a black sausage. And it's weirdly linked to botulism as well, because both of those have an ancient ancestor in the Latin botulus, meaning sausage. So it's come quite away, the word pudding. Stuart Salmon says, Susie and Giles, I love the podcast. Thank you. And thought I would ask you if you have ever seen the word dude used for a horse's penis. I have heard it somewhere. I'm going to burst out laughing again. I have heard it somewhere, but no, I have no idea where. Is there any evidence of this, or do I just make a weird connection between dudes and massive knobs?

Stu. You'll be relieved to know, Susie, that Stu does not have a crush of any kind on you. But he seems interested in the notion that a nickname or euphemism for a horse's penis is dude. No evidence, I'm pleased to say, in the dictionary. This may be in the slang dictionary. Certainly nothing that I have ever heard of. It's probably shortened from doodle, which meant a dandy or a fop, a Yankee doodle dandy. I've never heard it used in that context.

So a doodle is a euphemism for a horse's penis? No. I will keep investigating, which is what I say to anybody who comes up with a question that I don't know the answer for. We will do some more research on dood and the horse's penis. Yes. True story. Many years ago, I used to work with a lovely actor called derrick nimmo do you remember derrick

in the early days of countdown yeah derrick was already not on with me but yeah before your time yeah he was a lovely man and in the early days of countdown in dictionary corner there were people like me derrick nimmo russell hearty uh kenneth williams all these people no longer with us derrick was a a comedy actor and a delightful person. And he and I, I was publishing books in those days. We did a number of books together. And we did one book with Derek about animals. And he was photographed for the front cover with a zebra. And we went down to an animal safari park and had photographs taken of Derek Nimmo with the zebra and got some brilliant shots. But of course, the photographer had been concentrating on Derek and the zebra's head.

And it wasn't until we got back to the studio, photographs were blown up for the cover, Derek Nimmo with a zebra, and the zebra had the biggest erection you have ever seen. I'm sorry. I mean, it was massive. And what were we to do? What they did, the publishers, they published the book with this zebra on the cover, with this massive, and then every book had a little sticker put over it

saying Derek Nimmo's latest. So if you've got a copy of the book and you just think, oh, it's Derek Nimmo and a zebra, peel off the sticker and underneath it, you will see something that you're not likely to see again unless you are an excited lady zebra. How do we get from weather onto zebras? Are we doing weather today?

No, it's because they're asking about the horse's penis. I have a letter. Thanks, Naomi Cook, for rescuing us out of a very tricky situation she said she's back in blighty having binge listened to our podcast which is nice she um well first of all ask where blighty comes from and it was something that we think soldiers who've been working in india uh brought back you know to england when they returned home it goes back to a hindi phrase phrase used by soldiers overseas, as I said, in the First World War. And it was Viliati, which is Urdu, actually.

And it meant a foreigner. It was the foreign land for the soldiers who were there and maybe a little bit homesick. So that's where Blighty comes from. And she also says, I've always been of the understanding that the reason Macbeth, referring to one of our earlier podcasts, wasn't said in the theatre was that it was a play only rolled out when a company was on its uppers and so it was bad luck because it was mentioned when money was tight and you might not be paid which is really interesting I didn't know that theory she also

asked Naomi also asked what uppers are and essentially it means that the soles of your shoes are so sort of worn out and downtrodden literally um that you were on the upper part of your shoes but that's interesting about my bed i haven't heard that and of course i did mention the theatrical phrase when the ghost walks meaning when the ghost walks in hamlet that's when that's when an actor will be paid but anyway thanks naomi for writing in and i'm glad you're enjoying the podcast we we have said this it really means a lot to us for people to write in, doesn't it? And we do read all of them. We do read all the emails, even if we can't get to every single one. John Horrocks has asked me, what gives you, the word is W-E-T-H-E-R. What is W-E-T-H-E-R? As in bellwether? W-E-T-H-E-R?

W-E-T-H-E-R. As in bellwether? W-E-T-H-E-R. It's a bad spell of weather. Oh! That's a little joke. Okay. Thank you.

You know, me being me, I'm so gullible, I was going to say it's a castrated ram, which is what a bellwether is. It's a sheep, really, more generally, with a bell hung around its neck. So when people talk about a bellwether... Leads the flock. A bellwether being a warning. Well, a bellwether is something that, yes, it's a harbinger, but not necessarily of doom.

It's a sort of something that leads on to other things. These rams had bells hung around their neck, the bellwethers, and they would lead the flock. So it's something that kind of leads into other things. Have we got time for your triple? Yes. Susie's triple. The idea of the podcast, if you're new to us, thank you very much for being here, is we're exploring the world of words. We

love language and we like to encourage people to use words to their fullest effect. That's what this is all about. And I'm here basically trying to learn the feat of Susie Dent. And you're very kindly waffling while I go through my notes. What's the origin of waffling? To waffle, I'm sure, goes back to just the sound of someone, you know, just rabbiting on. So I'm very grateful for you. Is waffling an onomatopoeic word? Yes, I think it is.

I think I'm lucky to be known as a waffler because many years ago I advertised waffles for... Oh, yeah, that's different. That comes from the Dutch, basically, or French, gelf or gouffre, which means a waffle. Well, anyway... It went via Dutch. But the point is they got me because they thought I was a waffler, you see. Oh, nice. So I was the waffler promoting waffles.

I love waffles. Walls is waffles. Walls is waffles. If they'd like to advertise with us, we do have room in our podcast. Walls is waffles. I could do the commercial all over again. So it's a dialect word. It comes from waff, W-A-F-F, which was to yelp if you were a puppy.

And yes, it was onomatopoeia. That's the etymology of waffle. But I'm not here to talk about waffling or zebras at this point. I'm going to give you three words. Actually, my first word means something too odious to be spoken of. And that is nefandous. P-H or F? N-E-F, nefandous. N-E-F-A-N-D-O-U-S. And it's from the Latin, of course, meaning wicked or abominable. Speaking of that zebra again, unfortunately,

it might've had a new one talent in life. That might've been it. In which case it was monodynamic. one talent in life that might have been it in which case it was monodynamic can i say if you see this picture you'll feel monodynamic is what that word that actually it is nefandas the picture is nefandas and what the zebra was up to was indeed monodynamic yes yeah having one and one talent only what and it was quite a talent because the photo session must have lasted an hour and all the pictures had this huge erection. It's amazing. This obviously stayed with you for a long time, this Charles. What you might need at the end of this podcast,

a friend to go to the pub with and to forget about it all, and that would be a pot panion. A companion that goes down to the pub with you is a pot panion. A pot, because you're sharing a pot together. A pot being like a pint of beer. It sounds like a modern blend, but actually it's with you is a potpanion. A pot, because you're sharing a pot together. Yes. A pot being like a pint of beer. Yes. It sounds like a modern blend, but actually it's quite odd.

A potpanion. That's curiously, it's like what we call portmanteau words, where two words are put into one. Exactly, exactly. But does it predate Victoria? 1580, 1580. Wow. So they've had portmanteau words since the 1580s. Yes, they've been around for a long time.

A potpanion. Potpanion. Well, look, you are my potpanion. Thank you. We might go down to the local for a pint. Let's do've been around for a long time. A pot panion. Pot panion. Well, look, you are my pot panion. We might go down to the local for a pint. Let's do that. You can have shandy.

I'll have my usual ginger beer. Okay. And I hope you'll join us again next week. We usually come on air every Tuesday, but you can pop in at any time. And there are a couple of dozen

back numbers, so feel free to listen to us in the past. If you enjoyed us, renew or review us or rate us to help spread the word. If you've got a question you'd like to answer or you'd just like to get in the past. If you enjoyed us, renew, review us or rate us to help spread the word. If you've got a question you'd like to answer, you'd just like to get in touch, you can email us at purple at something else dot com.

If you have pictures of your animals in a state of arousal... No, do not send them in. Do not send them in. This is not that kind of a podcast. I feel like we've only skirted the... If that's no... We've touched the surface of weather. So if anybody has any weather words that they particularly hate or love,

please also send those in so that we can add those to the list. Something Rise With Purple is a Something Else production produced by Paul Smith with additional production from Lawrence Bassett, Steve Ackerman and Gully. Gully? Oh, he's over there. He's googling zebra. It's Z-E, zebra. Z, not Z. Oh, well, anyway,. He's googling zebra. It's Z-E-Z. Z. Z, not Z. Oh, well, anyway.

Oh, I love it, him.