Something Rhymes with Purple - Tosspot

Episode Date: July 9, 2019

We’re off to the pub with an episode all about the language of drinking. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up y'all it's your man Mark Strong Strizzy and your girl Jem the Jem of all Jems and we're hosting Olympic FOMO your essential recap podcast of the 2024 Olympic Games in 20 minutes or less every day we'll be going behind the scenes for all the wins

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Discover exciting games and events. Plus, find amazing hidden gems in cities full of adventures, delicious food, and diverse cultures. You'll love it so much, you'll want to extend your stay beyond the matches. Get the ball rolling on your soccer getaway. Head to visittheusa.com. Welcome to Something Rhymes with Purple, the wordy podcast for logophiles and anyone really who has some kind of passion for language. With me, Susie Dent and... Charles Brandreth.

I have to say, Susie, I've come to your home again, but you're looking wrecked. I am. Have you not had any sleep? No, it's a recurring theme, isn't it? Maybe we should do a whole podcast on the language of sleep. Oh, that's a great idea. Ladder, nod, 40 winks.

Oh. Yeah, and that might just send me off. Is this because you've been out of the boozer? I haven't been out of the boozer. I wish that was my excuse. No, I've just been working too hard are you a drinker do you drink alcohol I do drink alcohol and how much do you drink I love how many units do you count it in units do you know I used I went for three years without any alcohol whatsoever and then one evening up in media city after a long day of countdown everyone was sitting around having some fantastic red wine

and I just sort of sodded. And I had a delicious glass of red wine and I haven't stopped. But I don't drink a lot. I probably have three a week. Oh, you don't drink every night? I don't drink every night, no. Fine, that's good. But when I do, I really, really enjoy it.

And I've discovered the best cocktail ever called a gin fizz for special occasions only. Gin, elderflower cordial and prosecco oh it's it's amazing it's amazing how gin has become fashionable because it used to be the the drink for the the working poor we need to talk about that yeah the gin act of 1736 it was drunk for a penny dead drunk for two because it killed off so many people gin used to cut and now it's the chic thing they have sort of they have gin tastings. People all get together.

Distilleries everywhere. You know, it comes from juniper. Well, it comes from a Dutch word, genever, which meant juniper because, of course, it's made from juniper berries. But because it sounded a bit like Geneva, the sort of gin bit came into English with that pronunciation, and that's where it came from. But in the capital alone, by the 1730s, gin was public vice number one.

And there were 7,000 outlets for what was called the cursed vice. Was it very cheap then? It was really cheap, very cheap to make at home. I mean, it seriously was. There were lots of paintings that you will find with people who apparently are sort of committing all sorts of acts of debauchery.

Gin Alley. Was that a real place? Gin Alley. There's Gin Alley. I mean, was it a place or was that just a turn of phrase for some of the... I really don't know. Let's have a look.

I think of an artist like Hogarth doing pictures of... Exactly. ...dissolute people in Gin Alley. Exactly. The poorest of the poor. Lots of posters. Out of their minds. Public warnings.

And there were lots of euphemisms for it as well, some of which were quite playful, like strip me naked, which sounds like a modern cocktail. Doesn't it? I'll have a strip me naked. And what is it? Gin. It's a strip.

And mother's milk. Oh, it's like mother's milk to me. The gin's like mother's milk to me. Sweet stuff, tiger's milk, tittery royal bob. Tittery royal bob. Mother's ruin. I remember gin, mother's ruin, because in fact it was mother's ruin, wasn'ty, Royal Bob. Tittery, Royal Bob. Mother's Ruin. I remember gin, Mother's Ruin, because in fact it was Mother's Ruin, wasn't it?

Well, it absolutely was. I'm looking up Gin Alley now. That's the Oxford English Dictionary that you can hear at my fingertips. It's not actually in the OED, but leave that one with me. I'll have a look while we're talking. I gave up drinking about 20 years ago.

I gave up drinking in order, when I'd been an MP, I put on about a stone, if not more. And when I lost my seat, I thought I'll regain my figure. And I thought to help me do this, I won't drink. Because the House of Commons in my day, they were all night sittings. And it went on anyway till 10 o'clock on an ordinary night, and then often right through the night. And you ended up sitting in the bars, having a drink, waiting to vote. So I decided I'm going to give up, and I gave up completely overnight.

There's no more drink in order to lose weight. I lost the weight, and then I thought, oh, I've lost the weight, now I'll have a drink. And I had a glass of wine, and oh, I had a migraine, a terrible migraine. Oh, I thought I'd stop that, wait a few more weeks, have another glass of wine. This time, didn't have just a migraine, but dizzy spells, had to to lie down a friend of mine had exactly the same thing i was quite lucky that

after a period of abstention i was all right well or unlucky i clearly wasn't so i went to the doctor i said any of these and you said well you could try organic wine and i thought i'm not going to bother and so i gave it up and i do not miss it at first I used to miss it I never drank during the day but I used to miss it at six o'clock it was that sort of permission to oh it's the end of the day Quoftide Quoftide

that's what it's called Quoftide lovely word and but now I don't even miss it then I do have little treats you know I have a little elderflower cordial and I indulge myself my wife very sweetly

imports from France some fruit juices that are nectars that are actually crushed fruits so i have a strawberry nectar that is simply crushed strawberries raspberry and peach juice so i have those as little treats so i look forward to those so i have a little uh veggie sausage and a little raspberry nectar. You know how to live. Yeah, it's quite exciting. And then we turn on Naked Attraction and the night begins. Yeah, exactly. We need to talk drink though because linguistically it's,

oh, there's just so much to say. Well, where do we begin? In the pub? Well, in the pub. Let's begin in the pub. Shall I give you a few names for the pub over the centuries? Yes. I'd perhaps appear to Jonathan Green who is Mr. Slang in the UK.

And he's done these incredible timelines of particular themes, money, sex, drugs, certain parts of the anatomy, which, of course, you know, they just produce or generate so many slang terms. And so I hat tip to him because he helped me with these. In the 1600s, the pub was Fuddlecaps Hall or the Tipling Booth. Hold on. You say the pub. That's short for a public house, isn't it? It is. What is a public house?

Why was it called a public house? A public house because, well, the first pubs were kind of set up by monks, actually. They made a huge amount of money from the brewing of ale and any monastery that did this would hang often a sort of probably not a sprig of juniper berries but they would hang greenery outside the monastery to show i don't know yeah so you will um have the green man for example that's one of the earliest things that goes back to the to the idea or the bush and then you know anyone in a village who decided to brew at home would do the same thing, would hang some greenery outside. So give me those, give me those early names again.

Fuddle Caps Hall. Fuddle Caps Hall, because even then people got befuddled. You get befuddled. That's why I gave up alcohol. I couldn't bear being befuddled. Anyway, Fuddle Caps Hall, go on. The Mug House, the Tub of Blood. The Mug House.

Is this because people took advantage of you? You became a mug. Do you know? I don't know. It could just be they had a mug of beer. We could look at it both ways. The Lushington Crib. I love that. The Lushington Crib. The Lushington Crib. There was one before I quite liked. The Bloody... The Tub of Blood. Now, I would have associated that with a theatre, but I'm not, again,

I'm not quite sure why. Shicker Shop, juicery shika shop yeah shika how do you spell shika shop uh shika shop is um s-h-i-c-k-e-r shika shop shika goes back to the yiddish shika meaning to be drunk simply shika he was shika he was drunk then the person dispensing the drinks could be the ale draper the cove of the ken i love that the governor obviously mine host the sudslinger the sudslinger is that because with beer at the top the foam looks like suds soap suds yeah we talked about barmy before haven't we barmy being the foam at the top, the foam looks like suds, soap suds. Yeah, we talked about barmy before, haven't we? Barmy being the foam at the top of a cup of beer or a glass of beer.

No. It's also, it's a brewing term. You'll find it in tea making. As in, he was a bit barmy? He was a bit barmy. He's frothy at the mouth or just a bit frothy in the head. Oh.

Yeah. Grogist, brother of the bung. Good grief, there's so many. And there are a few. No, I'm loving them. Groggy. Groggy, okay. So Groggy. Groggy. Okay, so Grog goes back to Admiral Vernon.

Admiral Vernon was a hugely successful naval commander who actually inspired the Portobello Road, the name of the Portobello Road and Portobello Market, because of a famous victory at Portobello. So George Washington's brother also served under him and was so impressed with him. He's an American general? Yeah, he was British. And of course, George Washington was British originally.

Exactly. I think it was Lawrence Washington served under him, came back to his family home in America and renamed, I can't remember what it was called originally, some very deeply American name, but he renamed it Mount Vernon, which is, of course, where George Washington lived out his life. Anyway, Grog, Admiral Vernon used to wear a really heavy coat made of what was called grogram cloth, which is this really thick coat that kept him warm on the high seas. And he became slightly unpopular because he ordered the sailors' rations of rum to be diluted with water, not to prevent scurvy, just because he thought they were drinking too much. And as a result, he became known as Old Grog because of his grogram coat. And it was said with a bit of a smell, Old Grog, who had watered down their rations.

And then Grog eventually lost its moorings and became a byword for alcohol. And in a sense, also a byword for the rations. My grog eventually lost its moorings and became a byword for alcohol. And in a sense, also a byword for the rations. My grog. My grog, yes, that's true. My grog of rum. Where were we? We were on more of your, I'm loving these old words for... Hair of the dog. Do you want to know where that comes from?

Hair of the dog. This is a drink you take as it were to get over your hangover. Yes. So hair of the dog goes back to a belief that persisted for many centuries that if you were bitten by a dog, you could grab the offending animal, pluck a hair from it,

put it in a poultice and put it over your bite and the wound, it was thought, would heal a lot more quickly. And so the idea was, I mean, difficulties must have been to catch the animal. The idea was that a bit of what did you harm would actually do you some good and that was transferred over to alcohol then

hair of the dog so hair of the dog is a good one that's a cure for have you ever been drunk? oh yes really? of course haven't we all?

no you've never been drunk? no is that the honest answer? no I don't think I've ever been drunk what's it like? what? Is that the honest answer? No, I don't think I've ever been drunk. What's it like? Being drunk?

Can you remember? I should add, she may be modifying what she's saying because we're recording this at Susie's home and one of her daughters has just slipped back into the house with, I hope, some bags of mystery, which, as you know, is a phrase for sausages. So her mother now, having a teenage daughter... I've never been drunk in my entire life. ...is now saying she's never been drunk in her entire life

because Lucy is listening. But the morning after clearly is bad. It's not nice. No. I've seen people acting like the morning after. They lift their heads with difficulty from the... And clearly, ooh, the head feels terrible. That's when you take the hair of the dog.

Very odd hangover recipes, apart from the hair of the dog actually um which is another remedy involved mixing crab's eyes in wine or vinegar and knocking it back crab's eyes in wine or vinegar and you knock it back um i've also got some some great words you for, actually I might save some of these for my trio at the end. But I'll give you one, a snack lifter. I think it's a pub called a snack lifter actually. A snack lifter is someone who peers into a pub in the hope of seeking a friend who will buy them a drink. That's nice. They lift a snack as a door latch.

So they lift the door latch, peer in, is there anyone there who might buy me a drink? And then they'll go in. A pub name's very old. I used to write for a double act called Hinge and Bracket. Dr. Evadne Hinge and Dame Hilda Bracket. They were a drag act. Yeah, I know. I remember Hinge and Bracket. They played two elderly ladies.

And they were two delightful people, Patrick Fyfe and George Logan. Patrick's no longer with us. George, I'm happy to say, is alive and well. And they were very funny people. And I scripted a series, or several series, we did for TV called Dear Ladies. And Patrick was always

inventing wonderful names for the local pubs, Stacton, Trestle, which was the imaginary village that they lived in. And I think he called the local pub the Goat in Spats. Oh, I like that. I think as a result of our programme, dear ladies, real pubs began giving themselves amusing names rather like that.

Oh, Slug and Lettuce and that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. The Goat in Spats, you can picture it. What do pub names go back to? How old are they? Well, as we've established, I mean, ale has been with us for, you know,

for a very, very long time. And people drank ale, of course, because the water wasn't very good. That's absolutely right. The water was dangerous, whereas ale was safe. And small beer was weak beer that often kids would drink. You know, it was watered down beer. Oh, so when you say something, it's small beer, it relates to beer that had been watered down.

So meaning it's not as strong as... So you give a child... So it's a bit insignificant. Small beer. That's the idea. Yes. So, oh gosh, there's so many. I mean, there's been loads of books written about pug names,

but The Bag of Nails is one of my favourites because that was probably originally the Bacchanals. And we all know about Bacchanalian rites where people would drink to excess. We don't all know about that. But Bacchanalian... B where people would drink to excess and all sorts of other things to excess. We don't all know about that, but Bacchanalian... Bacchus was the Greek god... God of drinking.

Of drinking. And we see him as an overweight person in a sort of nappy, holding a huge bunch of grapes. Is that right? That's Bacchus for you. That's Bacchus. He gave rise to Bacchanalian adventures

and the bag of nails is a Bacalians people that's what we think it was yeah wonderful the elephant and castle goes back to um you know the district in london um the borough of london that goes back to a pub that was called the elephant of carcel people think it's got something to do with eleanor of castile but we think actually it goes back to a livery company that used to have its premises on the site. And they were cutlers, basically. So they were the worshipful company of cutlers. And on their coat of arms, they had cutlery. And they also had an elephant because a lot of the handles for the cutlery was made of ivory.

So we think that's where the elephant... And there was a castle on the top for the cutlery was made of ivory uh so we think that's where the elephant and there was a castle on the top of that as a howder really so that's where we think elephant castle comes from and i assume that these pub signs the origin of them is because it's before the time of universal literacy the checkers yes uh romans hung a sign of a checkered bar outside a drinking establishment but also in medieval days pubs and pub landlords often doubled up as financiers and they would count their money on a checkered tablecloth or a checked tablecloth so checkers was a sign that this was a money lender or money establishment as well as a pub. The Chancellor of the Exchequer goes back to that same checkered tablecloth

on which the royal money checkers and money counters would sort of move money around in order to calculate it. So you could go into your pub, you could borrow the money or get the money and then pay for the booze. I am, as you know, I'm thirsty. I'm feeling, have you got a ginger beer in the fridge? Let's take a break while I go and raid Susie's fridge. Hi, I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host of the podcast Dinners on Me. I take some of

my favorite people out to dinner, including, yes, my Modern Family co-stars, like Ed O'Neill, who had limited prospects outside of acting. The only thing that I had that I could have done was organize crime. And Sofia Vergara, my very glamorous stepmom. Well, I didn't want to be comfortable. Or Julie Bowen, who had very special talents. I used to be the crier. Or my TV daughter, Aubrey Anderson Emmons, who did her fair share of child stunts. They made me do it over and over and over.

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and try it for yourself. Susie, I must make a confession to you. You know you very sweetly sent me a text saying what we're going to talk about today, or suggesting it, because you only make suggestions. And I misread it, because when I went back and said, yippee, I thought you'd said, let's talk about puns. You said, let's talk about pubs.

Yeah. And I know nothing about pubs, which is why I've been very quiet this week. But I've come with my favourite puns keep getting your wires crossed and you'll end up with a mesh get it? yay I used to be

he was a loafer till he went on a sandwich course now he's the breadwinner people who indulge in wordplay certainly get up to semantics till he went on a sandwich course. Now he's the breadwinner. People who indulge in wordplay certainly get up to semantics. I like that one. You like that one, don't you? That's good, good.

Prayer of the confused cobbler. May my soul be healed. Aww. Clever, isn't it? We need to devote a whole episode to that. We'll have a whole, because I've got hundreds of puns ready for today. And Kelly, they are... I'm sorry, I've let you of puns ready for today. And Kelly, they are.

I'm sorry, I've let you down. They are surplus to requirements. So, yes. Has anyone written to us this week? Yes, they have. Emma has written in to say, Hello, do you have any idea how bread basket became slang for stomach? My colleague's surprised.

I've never heard of it and I can't find much about it. Bread basket? You mean like a paunch? I'm not sure it's actually a paunch. I think it's actually, it's quite a sort of fit looking, rippled stomach. Oh, thank you. I like to feel I'm a bit buff.

Oh no. Silence. I'm sorry. Carry on. So general stomach area, just because obviously that's where the bread goes. The answer is I'm not actually sure. And I'm not sure the Oxford English Dictionary knows either.

But this is very interesting. The reason for getting in touch with us at Purple at Something Else is because Susie Dent is the world's leading lexicographer and has all the answers, but she doesn't appear to know the answer. But that's quite satisfying, that people are actually out there who know more than you do. Well, I suppose what it shows is that, you you know the kind of linguistic detective work goes on and it always does go on and there are so many really frustrating examples of um fantastic words that

you can look up and it will say origin unknown in your show you're still touring your show yes remind me what it's called the secret life of words the secret life of words are people asked allowed to ask questions oh yes i have a word surgery at the end ah and what is the word that come what is the question that comes up most often uh okay um i have strange questions about jimmy carr quite often but the one about english that i'm asked most often is why do inflammable and flammable mean the same thing and tell us the answer this is very nerdy but it's the only sort of example in current english of in used as an intensifier not as a negator so in normally cancels out excuse me you lost us all just there with that phrase so normally you think of in as being the negative of the adjective that comes out. Like ingratitude. Inept. Yes, ingratitude, inactive.

Inaccessible. Exactly. But in this case, in is used as an intensifier. So inflammable means highly flammable. But because people were mistaking it to mean not flammable, i.e. you can have this duvet near naked flames and nothing serious will happen, companies now say flammable or highly

flammable and inflammable is pretty much gone away so the use of in there is like an intense which means more tense sort of yes there's this is yes that's not not quite a direct line there but it's a sensitive thing insufferable doesn't mean not sufferable it means insufferable no it does mean not sufferable that one but intense is a good example good intense is a good example insufferable this is this shows you that we're just real people doing this we don't know all the answers we are winging it inflammable and flammable is the most popular question well it's one of the most popular then i get asked you can you be gruntled um can you well we're gonna we're gonna devote an entire program to what word nerds call orphaned negatives.

Orphaned negatives. Now, there's a juicy trail of them. There's always something to look forward to. You still haven't been to, because you're doing your show in the sort of theatres I'm doing my show. Yes. You still haven't been to see my show. My tour ends at the end of July. But I have been persuaded to return next year.

Well, I'm postponing it until next year. So next year, come to London. I'm at the Cadogan Hall. In London, excellent. On the 9th of May next year. I know that's the date of my diary. I think I don't know what day of the week it is. But come to that one.

I'd love to. Because it's a big theatre. You are indefatigable. Seriously, you never stop. Now, is there a word... You're like Jimmy. Defatigable. There is a word fatigable, meaning tired or able to be tired.

Yes. Okay. It's time now for your trio of words. Every week if you're new to our podcast... Oh, the post is arriving. I've got a very loud letterbox. Or is that a little signal from the post person? What, saying, let me in?

Because I haven't seen any letters coming through. He just saw the letterbox rattled and then nothing came through. He's just showing you he's in the street. Yeah, I arranged this. Whenever you were going to talk about your tour, I arranged for a little. No, I didn't. What sues history over this week? Right.

The first, of course, pub related, shot clog. Shot, S-H-O-T-C-L-O-G. Yes. The pub companion who you only put up with because they're buying the next round oh he's a century's old that one he's a shot he's a bit of an obstruction but we'll put up with him because he's paying now you're not one of these but i'm one and paul and lawrence who are with us are also we are toss pots because the original toss pots were simply drinkers who tossed back their bottle of beer and then usually asked for another one so we're not yeah they were

kind of habitual drinkers maybe the idea is you're tossing it off exactly what but you're tossing off your drink yes so call someone a toss pot is not actually as rude as you might think toss it is slightly different oh tell us the difference between a toss pot and tosser tosspot is not actually as rude as you might think. Tosser is slightly different. Oh, tell us the difference between tosspot and tosser. Tosser is all about masturbating and tosspot is all about drinking. This is the charm of something wrapped with purple. We tell it as it is. What's the next one?

The third one is the friend who always turns up whenever they hear a cork popping or a beer can opening and that is a lick spigot lick spigot as opposed to lick spittle oh yes lick spittle is another good one we should mention that in the what what is a lick spittle lick spittle is somebody who just it's a bit like a fart catcher that we mentioned in our politics oh you lick up somebody else's horrible you're so admiring them oh they're very spittle is attractive let me lick your spittle that's a's spittle. Yeah, horrible. You're so admiring them. Oh, their very spittle is attractive. Let me lick your spittle. That's a lick spittle. Gross. I'm really, really old, though.

This is a lick. Lick spigot. One who licks the spigot. This is 1600, so 1599. A contemptuous name for a tapster or drawer. So it can be applied to a publican, but most often somebody always turns up when there's a smell of alcohol around.

Oh. And we haven't even mentioned cock-a-hoop. Cock-a-hoop. Well, look, I'm feeling cock-a-hoop now we haven't even mentioned Cock-a-Hoop. Cock-a-Hoop? Well, look, I'm feeling Cock-a-Hoop now. Let's end on Cock-a-Hoop. Cock-a-Hoop goes back, apparently, to setting the cock on the hoop, which is apparently to turn on the tap

and let the liquor flow. And the result is you are Cock-a-Hoop. Well, I'm Cock-a-Hoop. I have learnt so much again. I love being with you, Susie Dent. You are amazing, the amount you know. The fount of wisdom that is in there is extraordinary. So, really, if you have enjoyed the podcast today as much as I have,

and you're feeling Cockahoop like me, raise a glass and review us or rate us to help spread the word. If you've got a reviewing or rating mechanism on your podcast thing, if not, just spread the word. And if you've got a question you'd like to answer or you'd just like to get in touch, you can email us at purple at something else. That's something without a G,

something else, all one word, dot com. Can I just mention the origin of intoxicating? Oh, I'd love that. You know, well, toxic is something poisonous. It goes back to the poison that was put on arrows of archers centuries ago. So toxophily obviously goes back as well to the poison that was on the tip of the arrows. Deadly, deadly weapon. And the result was that the victim would be intoxicated, would be poisoned.

And of course, alcohol is a poison. And it got transferred over to the boozy kind. Wow. You live and learn. Something Rhymes with Purple is a Something Else production produced by Paul Smith, with additional production from Russell Finch, Lawrence Bassett, Steve Ackerman... And Gully!

And Gully! Brrrr you you