Something Was Wrong - S1 E13: Season 1: Q + A

Episode Date: April 8, 2019

Sara and Tiffany answer listener questions and reflect back on the season thus far.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. I'm Candace DeLong, and on my new podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the cold-butter killers you read about in the news. Listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music exclusive podcast killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some. Please use

discretion when listening. Hey, as previously mentioned, this week we're having a special Q&A episode. I sat down with Sarah and her sister Emily and I'm excited to share the answers with you now. And to everyone who submitted a question, thank you so much. I'm Tiffany Reese and this is Something Was Wrong. I'm going to be a little bit more fun. I'm thinking of me, you don't know me. Okay, so Jen from the Facebook group sent along some messages from listeners in the group. So, do you want to just start at the top?

Let's do it. Lindsay H. wants to know, I have a question for Sarah. I'm wondering if she still has feelings of needing to explain herself to people in her life. Yep That was kind of something that I I dealt with before almost I've always like I'll kind of be like no surely They'll I'll get them to understand you know that kind of thing, but now it I get I mean I want to be careful to use the word triggered But if I feel like someone has made an assumption

or they're being dismissive of something and they don't have the full picture, I do freak out. I kind of lose it a little bit and go over the edge. And whether I show it outwardly or not, I'm like spiraling, trying to control the situation. Yeah. Well, it's hard when you have like 100,000 people interpreting your life. I mean, in that aspect, and you dumb things, and have like a hundred thousand people interpreting your life.

I mean, even in that aspect, and you dumb things, and little like day-to-day things, where if I feel like I have to justify my actions to somebody, or if they, you know, make an assumption and they go, oh it's fine, I freak. Because then I say, no, let's have a conversation about this, let's figure it out, that kind of stuff. Explaining, you know, what happened in getting people to understand, I think I wore myself out of that. So now I don't care.

It could be partially because I've outgrown it and, you know, healed as they say or also just because I've given up. There are still, I mean, there are still questions that I get even with the podcast being out that I'm like, okay, if you don't get it now, I can't. You're never gonna. But it still comes up sometimes where I have this desire to, I have to force myself to not post things online that justify or explain or fill gaps because it gets me down this path that's never going to get complete.

It's never going to help everybody get inside my head or walk in my shoes. But yeah, that is something. And that's something that he would make me do and yet stop me at the same time. I always felt like I had to explain myself yet I could never get anywhere. And then it turned into, whoa, whoa, and it turned into being called defensive. Okay, Holly S. wants to know, were you the Sacramento bride that invited unhoused people to her Too Late to cancel reception? No, that person's awesome. I did hear about that, that sounded incredible, but no, that was not me.

Is Dick still in this area, and I'm assuming she means Sacramento the Nope Did the real came in Brian ever confront him not directly they had their attorney send him a cease and desist letter to which he responded acknowledged Who knows it was the back and only hope it was the back it was like acknowledged and in full compliance. Did his parents ever reach out or attempt to let Sarah know that they understood that she couldn't possibly marry him after all she discovered? That has to do with explaining myself. I don't think that they really fully know because I did not reach out to them

telling them what he did. That wasn't my concern. I did that with his brother only because it had been offered to me to talk to him. But I did get a very emotional voicemail from his mom and she was absolutely broken. But the crazy thing was that she said that she felt terrible, that she didn't, she said, I should have come out there to help you. And it was too much, and I should have helped with the stress of everything, or something like that. It sounded like, I thought afterwards,

did you think that I just was overwhelmed and I couldn't handle it? And she was crying, like speaking through tears, and said, I just want you to know that we're really, really sorry and we're heartbroken. And I wish we had done more. And I just never, I never responded. I don't think his family fully knows what happened, and I haven't badgered them or tried to tell them. I did reach out to his cousin on Instagram because I thought I saw that she was following and watching all of my stories,

and I tried to give her the respect of hearing the facts before they came out in a podcast. And when I presented them to her, she didn't't really respond and I haven't heard back since and so that's all the communication that there's been and that was the same one that left the comments On the blog. Yep. So the comments on the blog are not another one is definitely his cousin the other I think Is that cousin's mom. But I'm not positive. The aunt that you were like closer or with, right?

The aunt that I spent time with, I stayed there for a weekend. They said that they liked you so much. Yeah. I did get a really sweet, I think they sent me a text first. I think his aunt and uncle and Texas sent me a text a couple days after because they were still planning on flying out to California with the tickets that they had bought for our wedding to spend time with him in the bay, which they did. And when I responded back to them, I didn't tell them anything of what had happened. All I

said was, I really, really want him to get help and he needs to be around people that love him. And I would hope that he goes and stays with you or spends time with you guys. And I'm really, really glad that you're coming out to see him because he needs to be around people. And at that time, I was desperately hoping that he would get the counseling that he said he would and that he would go stay with the people he said he would. Turns out he did none of that, but at that point in time I didn't understand how narcissism and sociopathy works. I thought that there was hope and I was holding out for that for him.

Amy P asks, did you and Dick ever hang out with friends on a regular basis? It wasn't rare, but it wasn't as regular as it should have been. Looking back, we were long distance, so that did add to the difficulty. But when he was in town, I'd say, I mean, gosh, half the time. I mean, he would see my roommate. He would cross paths with them. We did.

I mean, he came to my work several times. My coworkers really enjoyed him. One of my co-workers was just saying the other day, how she's still in shock at how good he was at, just the way he was, good he was at everything, because she really enjoyed him. And he did come to our work like Christmas lunch. He came to my boss's wife's big surprise birthday.

I did try really hard to incorporate him into things. But looking back, obviously, we should have hung out one-on-one with friends more. It was all, they were kind of quick, very social, you know, interactions that didn't allow for anybody to go really deep with us and see consistent patterns. If that makes sense. Did you feel like he tried to keep you from it? Like, remember the, um, example you gave me about, uh, uh, movie night? Yeah.

Any ended up like getting mad. He wasn't overt about that, but I would have to, that's something that I haven't gone back through and really, you know, dug in my memory to remember his reactions to certain things. I know that when we were traveling, when he took me to Texas and Colorado and Seattle, pretty much all we were doing was seeing people.

So I kind of got set up with this idea that he was very social and all about spending time and accountability, you know, that big buzzword. And when we were here, a lot of our, I mean, when I went down to the bay, obviously we didn't hang out with people, except for the very first time I went down to the bay, we met up with friends of his that took a sailing on their sailboat in Half Moon Bay. So it started off on a note of, you know, seeing a lot of people. But other than that time sabotaging my, our movie night with my roommate, I don't think, if he was, he wasn't obvious about it. Kristen A. asks, in what ways, if any, do you think your religion slash religious community

helped and or hindered this part of your life story? That's the entering religion into it as a hard one to answer because it didn't, and I think I'll also answer the question of what role do you think religion played in this? To address that religion happened to be the tools that he picked out of a toolbox, but this happens to people of all backgrounds, religions, lifestyles, does not matter. In my particular community, I think it helped, because they knew me well enough to know my beliefs and they knew how I relate to God, what my relationship with God looks like, and they started to see changes that old me wouldn't have approved of. So in this case, it helped me because actually my boss is wife who sat me down one day and said, you are speaking against things that I know to be like cornerstones of who you are since you were young.

You know, there are things that should change in a healthy relationship and there are things that should not. And this is one of those things that should not because it makes you who you are and the person that we love and that is changing. So I would say that it helped, helped a lot. And it's helped in your recovery too, don't you think, having your community? 100%. I attribute everything to the community around me and to staying in church, to almost like go back to the consistency that I knew. I needed something to ground me and that is what it was because when you are, when you suddenly lose your sense of self and you have nothing to anchor consistency that I knew, I needed something to ground me. And that is what it was. Because when you suddenly lose your sense of self

and you have nothing to anchor you, it's petrifying. So I'm really thankful that I work in a place where I'm in a work for a second family. I work for my best friend's dad. So nothing changed. I was home with my parents. A lot of people think, oh, is that sheltering? No, it allowed me to put myself back together, you know, in a very consistent environment. I go back to the church that I loved and I had to kind

of rediscover what I loved about it without his, you know, slimy voice in my ear trying to pick it apart and take that back for myself. Melanie C asks, I agree this was a difficult situation. I'm wondering if Sarah was comfortable with her firm stance her family took. I realized they are close, but it seemed intrusive and overprotective to me. I can absolutely see how from the outside perspective what went down and probably the darkest most terrifying day of my entire family's existence as a family can seem intrusive and overprotective, but something that I think people need to understand is that my parents aren't characterized by being controlling and telling us what to do. And I know that. And this was a time when I know them well and they know me and I knew I was already alerted to, okay, I can't trust

myself anymore because the last eight or nine months of my life have not been what I thought they were. And now I'm desperate for someone else to tell me what steps to take and how to get out. And I know that my parents are not overreactors, they're not high anxiety people, they're not doomsday people, and they're not paranoid. So to see the seriousness of their emotion and how they were feeling, I chose in that moment to allow them to tell me what to do.

I could have put my foot down and said, no, I'm staying in Sacramento tonight, I'm not going to stay at your house. Or, you know, no, I don't want to go. And I just chose to not fight because at this point, I just wanted to survive. So I attribute their protection to my survival. I would rather have had them step in and make the decisions for me than me have to navigate that hell myself. Well, and also, if you didn't have a close relationship with your parents or and or you didn't respect your parents' opinions, it probably would have had a lot less weight, but because your family

is so close and your parents are stand-up people and excellent parents, you have a foundation with them where you trust and know that they have your best intentions at heart and you have 30 years telling you that they have done everything in their power to like love you and be there for you and support positive good things in your life. So my parents have always encouraged me in what makes me me. I've never felt like I had to fit a mold so I've always known that they celebrate who I am. So they're not trying to get me, you know, to fulfill any expectations. And in this situation, yeah, I hadn't slept. I hadn't eaten. I had no sense of time. I was, I was barely even wearing clothes like it was, it was pretty desperate. So, and I didn't sleep for like the next two weeks. And so there were a lot of times where my mom would stay with me

just while I was on the phone with the bank and on the phone with, you know, the knot and just trying to get my life back in order, trying to think straight. She was the one who was, I think, when my sister and my mom came out and we went to Creightville to eat, like, I think it was maybe Emily or someone actually forced me to order food because I had no concept of I couldn't tell if my stomach need, I couldn't make decisions. Being on the family side of it, Sarah is a very decisive person and she knows what she's doing. And so she's not normally easily bossed around. So we don't really ever tell her what to do. Her parents don't ever tell her what to do.

But in that moment, you could see that her foundation was stripped from below her and she no longer knew what the heck was going on. So it wasn't like, I mean Sarah said it a little bit, but it wasn't like a normal scenario. It was clearly serenaded help. They were there to help and to tell you what to do because she was very receptive to being told what to do. When normally Sarah makes her own decision, she's very independent, doesn't need that guidance,

but it was very clear her normal was not there anymore. So that's why it seemed overbearing and overprotective to other people. It was such a different scenario. And you know, one thing I'm going to, I'm sorry, just going to put it out there. I'm PMSing. So I can get emotional or I'll rip your head off in the next few seconds. It's probably a good day to record this. I would pray that all of you out there would have a dad that when you can't make decisions for yourself

goes into military mode and saves your life. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Looking back, I would not change a damn thing. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I would pray that all of you out there would have a dad that when you can't make decisions for yourself, goes into military mode and saves your life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I would pray that all of you out there would have a dad that when you can't make decisions for yourself, goes into military mode and saves your life. goes into military mode and saves your life. goes into military mode and saves your life. goes into military mode and saves your life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my life. I think he saved my overbearing, he stays out of things, but I would hope and pray that people are blessed enough to have a father figure or someone in their life that will come in and rescue them if they ever need it. Truly. And mom, you might want to give mom a stand.

And mom, stand between you and the six foot three dick. Yeah. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. And mom. Okay, so Jenna M is asking, do you think it's unhealthy to keep following him on social media?

When do you think he would stop following him? Are you following him on social media? Hey guys, super healthy. I highly recommend. I'm sorry, is everybody not following everyone they hate on Instagrams? Every move? You guys, I get alerts. I have alerts that to my phone.

For every time he tweets, every time he posts, no, I'm not. We're kidding. This is a joke. Not following him. I'm not following him. You won't let us. I have him blocked on all platforms. Any form that any account that I found that looks like him rhymes with his name is spelled similar to

his name is completely blocked. Anything that I know is told to me by people that know what I want to know when it's important or has something to do with maybe answering a question I had, but no, I don't just arbitrarily go and be like, hmm, what's dick up to today? Yeah, well, I have the same. Also, I think something that I don't know if anybody asks this, but I think it would be something good to clarify. You did not contact his ex-girlfriend. Alissa contacted his ex-girlfriend. You did not contact his family.

His family contacted you on your block. Correct. And they started following you and lurking on your page. So just to be clear, you did not go after these people and seek them out. Not at all. And the ex-girlfriends and things like that, those sort of situations sort of happened in some ways

organically. Yeah, I mean, finding the person that was on the charges for Southwest, I didn't expect to find somebody else on there. And I kind of went back and forth for a while on whether or not I should contact her, because I don't want to bring up past stuff in someone else's life. And it, you know, it's not like we talk all the time. We got some clarity that I think we, you know, benefited from from each other and that was that. The only person that I'm in regular contact with is his ex-fiance, who's awesome. I actually, in the future, even from

now on, I'm not going to contact anybody. I still don the future even from now on I'm not gonna contact anybody. I still don't plan on contacting his current girlfriend. Jessica C. I would like to know what the future of the podcast is. Other dysfunctional relationships, whether romantic or parent child siblings, something completely different. I have no clue yet. I definitely am toying with a few different ideas. I think it would be really interesting to do a season of like 10 different stories that are like two hour episodes covering listener stories because we've had so many people like reach out and so diverse in terms of the types of relationships, religious backgrounds, life, you know, circumstances, age, gender, race, you know, there's so many different stories.

So I think that would be interesting. I think it would be cool to do another long form. You and I connecting was like, Kismet, it just happened. So to think about, it just happening again, I don't know. So it's hard to imagine, it's hard to imagine like starting and having another this. Yeah, I definitely like want to and want to. You want to. Yeah. I want to make sure it's great. Stephanie C asks,

I'm curious as to when the first time something felt off for Sarah and what prompted her to dismiss that feeling with unease and continue her relationship with Dick. So if I, I mean, if I had to, the first time that I felt like something was off was in me, it wasn't something that he did, but if I'm looking back my first, I think what should have been my red flag was that he was in love before I was or he was expressing it, not expressing it, but I, it was being discussed by Kimi and Brian that he was, you know, things were moving along and it was like, are you in love yet? Are you in love yet? I didn't blame him for it, so it's still confusing for me because Kimi was the one

who's texting me saying, so, hey girl, are you in love yet? How are those feelings doing? And it wasn't from him, so yeah, it was total pressure. And I kind of had a freak out come, let me see, like late October or something, maybe before, like right before we started going on our trips. And I was like, I'm not moving fast enough. Like why is he ahead of me? But I used logic and told myself, this looks like everything I want someone to move forward.

So looking back, I think I would call that my first feeling of unease. But it was again confusing because he hadn't done anything wrong. Things just seem to be because he hadn't done anything wrong. Things just seemed to be, you know, serious very quickly and I wanted to catch up too because it was so much fun. Denise asks, without asking anyone to cross any boundaries, I wonder about the intimacy aspect. When I dated my dick, I have to admit, everything physical with him was really exciting

and it made the red flags confusing. I'm wondering if the physical aspect of the relationship, not asking anything indescried, was thrilling enough to cloud perspective? I'm sorry. I tried to find a way to answer this question. I think my answer is no. That was not the confusing part. It wasn't doing any extra work.

It didn't cloud my perspective. Let's put it that way. I did notice looking back and it took me a while to realize this, but I thought that toward, oh gosh. In the beginning, he was much more tender and kind of fun to kiss. I don't know how to explain it, and then I'm telling you, everything changed after engagement. It really did, including just how affectionate he was at all. He wouldn't. And that was when he would say, ugh, I'm sweaty, don't touch me. You know, weird things like that, I'm hot.

It wasn't that hot, but he was just grumpy and miserable. And even just kissing him kind of felt, I remember even thinking, uh-oh, why do I not like kissing you? That's not, is that gonna, I hope that changes? But that thought didn't occur to me until months and months in. So just saying that I

really think that he was acting from the beginning. Someone that doesn't feel or doesn't have a conscience, I don't think can truly, you know, love somebody and can be intimate. So he doesn't know how to express that through physical affection either. He was playing a part, it started to deconstruct because he was getting tired months in and it was starting to show. So I've had a few people ask me if you guys were waiting till marriage to have sex. And we did cover that on the podcast. Yeah. We covered it. And yes, you were waiting.

Holly A is asking, I'm dying to know was his job real? How much of it? Yeah. As far as I'm pretty sure there's no reason for me to think that it's not real. I think that a lot of the daily ins and outs that I was told from the first job we had when we met in the second, I think a lot of it was made up, a lot of bonuses that didn't happen. There was lots of drama. There's so much hate and just so much, you know, ugliness and backstabbing. I, not that I don't think those things happen,

but I think that most of what I understood of how, how things went down when he quit his old job and got hired, I don't think a lot of that happened, but I do know that his job is real. I think the speculation we had was like on the Vogue app or the Urban Decay stuff. Like he would kind of embellish from what we could tell because we found out the Vogue app was not designed by him, right? Correct. It's like it was we found that it was

yeah someone sent me someone sent me a screenshot of someone's like a kind of a portfolio and he claimed that he did the Vogue app. I don't know if it was one aspect of it and maybe worked on it collaboratively maybe, but I think it's pretty safe to assume. Lizzy would like to know how the podcast has impacted you Sarah, has it helped through the healing process, has it hindered you because it's made it harder to move on and detangle? Do you feel empowered by sharing your story in this way? It helped me in a lot of ways like there's been a lot of help and a lot of healing and then there have been days where we've had to balance out, you know, the waves of drama and I think we've had to almost, and I say we like you, Tiff, and Alyssa and I have almost had to balance out what we're going to take in and what we're going

to react over and realizing, okay, this part's helpful, this aspect of things are not, we're going to cut that out and let it go. But it's been so freeing in ways that I didn't expect and validating just to hear people's stories come back and realize, okay, I'm not alone. This is happening everywhere to everyone in different walks of life. It was very confirming and validating that and it makes me think, wow, how many people have had to walk through this without, you know, the clarity that I've been able to find in the answers and not having a bunch of people go, oh, that happened to me. through this without, you know, the clarity that I've been able to find in the answers. And not having a bunch of people go, oh, that happened to me. And here's, you know, my story.

It's been really, really helpful. There have been some days where I've felt like, you know, great, all the things that I am now free ever kind of coming back. But those were quick and short lived. And it was really just a lesson in how to handle it. Betsy W says, as a Christian from a Christian upbringing, which messages from the church about marriage, gender roles, and relationship dynamics, do you feel caused confusion when navigating how to deal with a person like Dick? If any,

how would you advise women on how to navigate a similar situation once she notices warning signs and wonders if something is wrong. You know what's interesting is I grew up in there was a community not everybody was like this but gender roles were very specific and I saw a lot of women just kind of pigeonholed into them and parts of their creativity or giftings were kind of watered down or limited because of what they were told they couldn't couldn't do. And he came out the gate verbally preaching like all about women, championing women. And the big thing, I actually remember sitting at his aunt and uncle's table in Texas and they were asking, what is it about him?

Like what did you fall in love with? And I remember getting emotional, I was sitting around drinking wine and I said, you know, I've never been with someone whose whole purpose is to see me flourish. Everything that he talked about was, I want to see you succeed in everything that you do every part of you, every little interest you have, every talent, every gift. I just want to see that explode. So how can I help you and social media? How can I help your, you know, oils business and everything? What skills do I have to help you? And it was, I almost felt like it was a bait and switch because I was seeing the opposite. You know, I was seeing what I had wanted and the opposite of what I had wanted to run from growing up. My worst fear was to get like,

pigeonholed into this pastor's wife that wears long dresses and teaches piano lessons, you know, all day, every please hear me out. If you do that, I want to be so careful. I want to be so careful. If you do that and you love it, good for you. But I didn't want to be forced into it. You know, I saw this mold as the word I was trying to think of that so many people were forced into and friends of mine forced to,

they weren't able to go to college, or they weren't able to work outside the home, because women are supposed to figure out how to earn a living, and how to do everything from the come finds of their home, because they have to be home. They have to have dinner on the table. They have to do this.

And he started off with women from the world. I mean, and all of my friends that are women, that by the way are super hot and super successful and that I mentioned super hot. They all are badasses and blah, blah, blah. And then it turned into he tried to get me to listen to certain teachings, certain podcasts that talked about gender roles and marriage. And it all was leading to why women are not supposed to teach in the church. They're not supposed to preach or speak or teach men. And I would argue and you go,

oh, no, no, don't get me wrong. And we'd end up in this weird circular conversation that wasn't going anywhere. It was, oh, you can, but you can't. Well, you can, but you can't back and forth. And it was, well, you can teach women or you can be in a group where men are listening to you, but you can't teach them the Bible.

And you can't, it was, seriously, it was a hot mess. Not to get the people wild up saying, see, religion did play a role. It just happened to be the weapon that he chose. Something you said to him towards the end, I think, was like the brand of Christianity that you chose enables something about enabling the behavior. And it's true because Christianity is such a broad umbrella

and there's so many different, you know, denominations and like approaches to life. Betsy asked, if any, how would you advise a woman on how to navigate a similar situation once she notices warning signs and wonders if something is wrong? And navigating it, what I wished I had looked for and what other people saw in me was look for things, you know, about yourself that brought you life that you really felt confident in or empowered over and make sure that you're still growing in those areas and that you feel free and there's still, you know, there's fruit. If there are areas, you know, in your life that feel like they're blocked or stuck and he doesn't, you know, you're, I don't know. If there are areas of you that have always been, you know, what

people have loved about you and they're fading in any way, pay attention to that. I'm not saying it's because, but if there seems to be a direct correlation between the relationship that you're in and a lot of areas of your life that don't seem to be empowered,

they may be in words, but not in actions, pay attention. Also, don't let your husband interpret the Bible for you. He is not your pastor. And that was one thing that I think it was used wrongly in my life. I'm saying this now because I, you know, Betsy, you're a Christian. You asked from Christian to Christian. I wish that I had not allowed dick to be my, be the voice of God in my life. And that was one thing that I will never ever do again, because that is completely changed for me now. I wish that I had deferred to God

for what I could do and what I was capable of and what I could interpret for myself, because it's very different from what Dick was saying. Julia asks, any updates on present day is he still with a girl who ghosted y'all? As far as I know, yes, I'm not following a social media, especially like super closely, but as of like last month, mid last month, yes.

Yeah, and somebody sent me a screenshot that they like went on vacation to London, so he's upping his game. Apparently, trips are getting longer and farther away. Alice asked, did you know that Dick made a Facebook account to join a group for your podcast? Yes, I have spies everywhere as I tell my children. No, I was told that Dick is in the Facebook group. I don't know if he's still there, but it was found out because somebody who knew who he was, he made me honest here. Somebody who knew who he was was talking about

what he looked like and said, he's not that cute or something. And she had just been on his page, left that comment, came back like 10 minutes later, went to click on the page again and was blocked. How would he know her name to even block her from the Facebook group? She shared that with the admin.

And then I think Jen, the admin called him out., it was like, I'll give you five second head start and then I'm gonna beat the shit out of you on the internet. Yeah, it was like, yeah, it was like calling him out, hey, what's up? Okay, so Robin wants to know, how has this experience impacted the way you approach dating? Well, are you dating right now? I was gonna say, that's really hard to tell because that is a hard stop firm. No. A few people over the last few months have been like, really sweet. They've been offers to set me up.

And every time my brain even gets to that point, there's just a hard stop. Nope, no things, not interested, not ready. And I do know that there are some things I'm going to have to heal from in the context of a healthy relationship that I'm not really super looking forward to, but I know that that there are some things I'm going to have to heal from in the context of a healthy relationship that I'm not really super looking forward to, but I know that that's going to be a good thing. But I do know that from here on out, at least for me personally, no more online dating.

I am not against online dating for people in general. I just, I think that I've gone around that mountain enough, enough times, words are hard. Number two, no more long distance, ever. That is my third or fourth long distance relationship. Again, I've done my time. Number three, I am never gonna date anybody that I don't have mutual friends with. That can actually vouch for him. What is your thoughts on the iTunes reviews?

I've had a lot of people ask. I think I asked you about this before, but it didn't make the cut of the last episode. But what are your thoughts? So be funnier this time. No, I just, I didn't get that far. How many wine this time? No wine today.

Oh, you guys had a wine last time? Yeah. Yeah. That was probably the first mistake. Might've been questionable. So professional. If I want people to take me seriously, I don't. I don't want anyone to ever take me seriously.

And she is taking me seriously, then they don't know me at all. Did she ever give that impression? And also, you can be professional and silly. And smart and silly. I'm sorry that you are a woman and be silly and laugh at yourself and still be completely smart and professional, by the way.

What were we saying? Oh, I'm sorry. I changed reviews. iTunes reviews. I mean, how many of them do you think are him? Every time I see a suspicious Instagram account, a weird follow, you know, random like a random iTunes review, instantly my brain just goes, hey, dick. What's up? But I've been really surprised at a few of the iTunes reviews that turn out to be real people,

you know, because their username is matched up with the Insta accounts. But if you're, I mean, like I said, in one of my stories, one time on my Instagram way back, like if you're here for, you know, sorry, to use the term, but trauma porn, you know, no, you're not going to find dead bodies. Sorry that after we told you what really happened, you were disappointed. You can move on. No one forced you to listen to you. You can press stop. You can't make everybody happy is the thing. You will all be okay. You know on Yelp you can respond when people even know you're old. Which I could respond to be like so many times. Number one, please link to your podcast that you created while working a full-time job with three children.

Exactly. Two of which who have special needs in your free time for the last nine months. With a hundred dollar microphone that was five years old that you had handed down, because you had no money to fucking buy anything else. And then we can talk. The people that are benefiting from this are what it was for. If you're disappointed, tell yourself,

maybe I wasn't the intended audience. And maybe I'll turn it off and I'll go about my day. But you don't need to take the time to leave a review because it wasn't intended to be that. It's intended to educate what I have learned is the people who get it, people who don't, don't. And this podcast is for the people that get it. That's the whole purpose. Someone who asked what your sort of recovery is now,

like what tools are you using to go to therapy? That was like one of the questions. I came through my Instagram. That's a good question. I went to counseling right away, and I was really glad that I did, and it was ugly. I'm not gonna try to sugarcoat it,

because you have to face things, and so one thing that I'm really glad I did, because of my personality type, I tend to run from conflict, and I will avoid pain, or things that I don't feel I might be good at. It's kind of a whole gamut of things. So to not avoid things and to lean into it, go to counseling, rip some things up, you know, you're going to have to when a thought enters your head or something that he said to you or someone said to you that, you know,

you don't believe or is not true about yourself, stop yourself, recognize it, speak the opposite, speak what you know is true, and get it out. If you have to journal it out, write it all out, but lean into the pain, or if you're having a really, really, you know, bleak day, don't keep it to yourself, tell somebody you trust, or journal it out so that you can get it outside, and it doesn't become something that is real to you, or something that you believe. Because it is all about reconstructing your sense of self, your sense of reality and identity. And you're going to have to pull up all of the crap in order to separate and clean it out, if that makes sense. And one thing I kept thinking of is be patient with yourself and give yourself grace.

Don't try to put your life back together. I know people, at least like in the way my mind works, well, it was kind of a, how dare you do this, how dare you take my life from me because I loved the life that I had. And so I was so desperate to scramble to put my life back together the way it was before that I, and it would almost allow my anger

to deepen for what he did. And that's a dangerous path to go down. You have to forgive. Because it's only going to cause you to get sick. You have to forgive, pull it up. Every, and you're gonna have to do it over and over and over again. I will add to what I said before every time you pull up the crap and get rid of it. You have to forgive that person all over again. Don't let that stew and take root. Because it will take you over. It's like drinking poison. You have to get it out of your life and give yourself grace to slowly get back to normal and realize that if you're overreacting and scenarios in your life, be willing to self-reflect and realize, okay, that was a part of my identity that was attacked before.

I did not need to take it out on that person. I'm sorry, this is what I'm dealing with, and let's move forward. Someone else had asked what has it been like, what has your life been like since the podcast started coming out? I didn't sleep again. I had to, well, I mean, I did essential oils. But it's been like a new sense of not responsibility but like a fire for...

I've been really surprised that the amount of people that have reached out to me from across the country, not just to share their story, but to ask me questions. And I'm realizing already how the healing process has helped me, you know, share with other people, well, here's what I did. And I actually have something to say, whereas before, I was would have been over my head. And a lot of it is, still, like, completely above my, you know, big, or even experience, because people have been in this for years. There have been a couple random times where I've been, and this could be all in my head again, but I've had some people like stare at me randomly when I've been out in sack, and I'm thinking, oh, wait. Could it be

the pocket? That's so random. It's just, I guess, and one way that it's been different is I've felt a lot more kind of exposed. I did have a freak out moment where I thought, uh, do I want exposure? It's not like this is, it's not like I'm actually famous by any means, but just that little bit of, I'm on some kind of radar. Now, did feel a little bit weird, and then when people started making assumptions about things and stating their opinion on my family, that was a fun, you know, thing to navigate because there was a lot of, I'm sorry, who do you think you are? How much time have you spent with us? There was a lot of, you know, that to navigate.

You said people say, no, I mean, like, sarcastically, you know, when people say, oh, that their question is this, this and this, it's one plus one is two, that's how it is if you're Christian. And I'm like, one in really, one in for women, one in for women will find themselves in an domestic abuse or violent relationship. I guarantee one in for women are not all Christians. It is part of this story, but it's not part of the ultimate story, which we're trying to tell, which is course of control, and how these sort of attitudes in any relationship can create emotional abuse, gaslighting, and all those sorts of things.

I also think it's interesting that I've had people assume that I am a Christian, and I am not. Oh, yeah. Because I guess I'm agreeable with you, or I'm not like telling you that I'm not. You're very respectful. I'm trying to be respectful. Yeah, like your entire religion and purpose and soul and heart and...

Which says a lot about you. I'm pretty serious. But I think like when you dig into the data, so to speak, of emotionally abusive relationships and things like that, sure, you're gonna see organized religions of all kinds being used. It's also just the culture we live in that women are less than men. So,

if there is like a religion or a job title or all sorts of different things from an environmental standpoint, those can of course not make it worse, but make it easier for the abuser. Yeah. Well, and Susie Paz don't pick easy targets That's the thing they're they're too easily bored. So he didn't pick somebody who was some sweet push over little homeschooled Christian sheltered girl No, he did not. Okay He picked the Gemini. Okay, mistake. She has improved like the Not I don't want to really want to call them weaknesses, but the things that he changed in her, like the AC thing that I brought up with me changing the AC and her not caring whatever, I will tell you what, she has got a bit of her argument back.

She does not let me run the world like I did in Cabo. You had your time. Are siblings always have reassured themselves? She's back. Bitches back. She's back. She's back. She, you can Bitches back. She's back. She, you can tell that she's getting better,

but it's also nice to see since the podcast says, come out, she's talked about a lot more than what I knew ever happened. It's funny, as you think, as a family member, you know the whole story. Like if anybody knows the details, I know the details. And as I'm listening to the podcast, I'm like, what the fudge?

I didn't know that happened. I didn't know he said this I didn't know you felt this way about that like holy crap so when you start to see what you thought happened and then you hear what actually happened and then you see Sarah change through it as a weird experience very relieving just I don't know just to see what happened and to see her get back to who I knew her to be before I am starting to see the Sarah, the predix Sarah with a lot more wisdom. Not that I ever thought she was lacking it before, but now

it's like, whoa, crap, you went through hell and you came out on top. That's impressive. Do you ever feel afraid that like he could like show up? Yeah, I have a pretty active imagination. So not gonna lie, there have been times where yeah, that's, I don't like, I feel weird even like verbalizing it or like putting it out there. But I've been like, well, at least if I disappear, everyone will know who to look for. That has crossed my mind. That's true. For the, I mean, and that's part of, honestly, that's kind of what I, one day I thought, well, that's what's keeping me safe. If anything, because there's, I mean, that would be too obvious. Yeah, you'd have to

be on the run for the rest of his life. But for the most part, no, just because I know how much of a coward the cowardice they operates from and how quickly he wants out, he wants. He's already on the right. Yeah, he's moving on. I was just one and done, yeah, kind of thing. How do you think your parents have handled hearing the podcast and having your shirt listen to the podcast.

My dad is so over. He literally just gonna say, he was over it done. He was over it began. My dad is just tired of hearing his name spoken. He doesn't want him to get any more attention. Doesn't get any more part of our life that's how my dad feels.

Not that he doesn't want us to hear about it. He's just like, he doesn't deserve or it doesn't get attention. It probably just makes him so angry to think about it. It's like, I don't know. He's still outside. If we're all talking about it, you see him, you it isn't as hard as my attention. It probably just makes me so angry to think about it. It's like, I don't know. You're still outside. If we're all talking about it, you're seeing you can probably get up and just about that.

Sliding door opens and there goes that. You'll play with bubbles outside with the dog. Yeah, my mom, I think it's been, it's been really helpful. I think a lot of things have been good for her. And people do come up to them at church and say things. And I think she, like, I don't know how to explain it, like comes alive in a good way, kind of, because

she was so, she was so, like, she just kind of caught on fire when the whole thing was happening and it was like, I gotta save my baby girl, kind of thing. So she had women that she knows at church that when the whole thing was right before it had gone down and my mom couldn't sleep at night, like, she felt like she was being tormented and she couldn't figure out what was wrong. She was approaching friends of church and saying, I don't know what's wrong, but I need you to be praying for my daughter. And a lot of them didn't know who I was. So they were all praying. So now that the podcast is

coming out, there are people coming to her going, I remember that day, I remember where you were that you came up to me at church and you, you know, were emotional and crying and you were saying, I don't know what's wrong, but I need you to pray. And now hearing the other side of what was happening and so I think it's been fulfilling for her in a way. She actually said there was one episode that I don't remember which one where I revealed a lot more of kind of what I went through and it was a lot of people's favorite episode and surprisingly enough it was the most difficult episode. It was her least favorite to listen to and I forget sometimes. I was the one where you were we were talking about the coffee shop in

Oakland, I think. Yeah. And it was more like just like day to day stuff. The subtle stuff. Never heard. And like the computer story was in that. Yeah. When I saw Brian's letter on his laptop and how it was handled and how the whole thing went down, that whole story I think was the most difficult for my mom to hear and made her the most angry over the whole thing. And I'd never, obviously, never occurred to me what it must be like from a mother's perspective to hear so much and that there were a couple points where I thought, should she be listening to this?

There are certain people and I do have a couple of close friends that haven't listened to it and I get it. Can you talk a little bit about what your plans for the future, I know you love to write? Yeah, I've always wanted, I've always, I mean, love to write and I've always known I would write a book Definitely didn't plan for the first one to be about anything related to this

But I feel like it's going to last summer as soon as you know everything happened and I was done with counseling I had this crazy drive. I could barely handle it to write everything out timeline from day one this happened Then this happened then this happened happened. Call me crazy. I don't recommend that to everybody, but I had to do it because I've journaled, I mean from the age I was 13 to about 25, I didn't miss a night. And we're talking like I would journal on a napkin in the back of the car coming off from dinner or something. So the way that I process things, the way that I think I have to see my life on paper. So I took the whole relationship literally from first seeing his photo to the very end. And I typed it all out over a series of like five days. And then

over the next couple weeks, I would write down scenarios. I would remember and what I would hear because I knew, you know, after I close my laptop and I'm done reliving this, I'm going to try my best to forget everything and get my life back. And when I'm ready to come back to this one day when I'm healthy, I'm gonna write a book. I, there's, there's sometimes where I'm like, oh, maybe that time's come. No, it hasn't come yet. I'm not ready to write the book,

but I'm gonna write a book at some point. It'll go. Yeah. Do you see yourself dating in the future? I'm in your future. I don't think you're gonna be a celibate nun or anything. Abstinence for the rest of my life. I don't know what, I mean, maybe that's just something

that will happen or I hope that it will happen organically. It's gonna have to because I'm not seeking it out. Yeah. Honestly, I'm not. I'm not seeking. There are so many things now that I want to do that I almost feel like it would be a distraction and that sounds funny. But I know myself and I know how I am in a relationship. It's hard for me to separate, which is part of my personal, you know, downfall with him, was that I started to defer to him, I started part of my personal, you know, downfall with him, was that I started to defer to him. I started to picture my future,

and I couldn't separate my passions from what I felt, you know, kind of melded with his. So I'm kind of taking this time right now. I'm saving up for a house. I want to have my own house. I want to have a dog, I want a yard, I want an office, I want to be working on my book. I have a vision for my oil's business,

and I have to cultivate that on my own right now. I want to get my financial future set and I don't want to rely on someone else for that and that's been a personal thing that I've realized, oh, I need to heal from that. He kind of made himself my financial security for the rest of my life and I had this idea in my head from him that it would require a man to have a retirement, to do this and do that. And I'm going, going nope not anymore. So I'm having to like, rewire a lot of that, but I've learned never say never. I mean if something came up that I knew

was right, I wouldn't be an idiot and say no if that makes sense, but I'm definitely not seeking it out. And sweet well-meaning people have tried to set me up and they have great people that there is absolutely nothing wrong with and I had just felt and no. And there have been times where I thought, oh, I think I'm ready. And then I realize like a week or two later when the opportunity actually comes, no, no, I'm not. I don't wanna do this.

Do you think part of that is because you will have to get into what this relationship was? Do you feel like, I don't know how I'm gonna navigate that yet. You know, I've thought sometimes it'd be nice to just like, if I never wanna go on a first date again, but it would be kind of nice if they just knew everything that happened and we didn't even need to talk about it. You know?

And other times I'm like, I don't want them to know anything. I never wanna talk about it again. I don't want them to even know that it happened, which is not possible and not gonna happen. I have had some people tell me, and I've been surprised to hear that, you know, the person that they're with doesn't know the details of what they went through. And I think that's everybody's personal choice. But I'm the type of person that I, I, I almost feel like I can breathe easier if they just know so that, you know, it's all out on the table. I don't have anything to hide. And so

it would, I think it would make things easier. That way, if I react a certain way to something, I'm an internal processor and so I don't realize that I bottle things up and I keep a lot of thoughts in my head and it would help me a lot if I would just get them out and then we can go, oh, okay, let's move on. Instead of me, you know, stewing in my mind. I am a little concerned sometimes that there are things I might project or I might assume or be suspicious of, you know, in a new relationship and I'm going to have to tell myself they are not him. They don't have the intentions he had. They're not, they are for me. They are not trying to undermine me, you know, things like that.

And I know that the person that I'm with is going to have to be extremely kind. And I, I, that's something that Dick's ex-fiance and I've talked about. She's with someone now who's just the absolute opposite of everything that Dix was in ways that she didn't even think to look for, but she said she realized after him, after Dix, that she wanted someone who was a team player and didn't need to even preach what they, what they walked. You can just see it in him, you know, And the person that she's with now is so normal. She loves it. Average guy has got an average job. Content. Not average looking. She scored.

Yes. He's so gorgeous. But he's content with a normal life. Yeah. And she is head over heels and love with that. And it's beautiful. Consistency. Yes. When you have lived in trauma. Yes, yes, and see is gold. Yes Like you don't want anything but that he doesn't keep her guessing He is who he is and he is always the same and he is kind to everybody that he meets and I'm realizing I'm like I just I need somebody who, you meet that person instantly and you go, okay, there might be whatever quarks But he is kind. Oh, you're gonna get her. You're gonna get her.

You're a major hottie. I can't imagine that any other way. Exactly. I mean, come on. Oh, that everybody says I should just let everybody at this point. I will assemble a team and I would let them pick. Yeah, we need to get the girls from the Facebook list to vet every person. Yeah we'll find the bones. We're gonna have a panel it's gonna be Elissa Tiffany Emily my friend Ariel and my mom. I don't yeah I think that I think that about covers it. Yeah it's good for now. What do you think? Yeah yeah okay. You're like no I'm good. I'm good I'm good, I'm good, and produced by me, Tiffany Rees.

All of the music this season is by the band's Vlad Rattles. A special thank you to Sarah for family and friends for participating in this series. Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose linked in the show notes. Thank you to Alyssa and Ryan Doyle for their time, support and height. Shout out to my husband Michael and our three amazing children, Jude, Ruby and Ozzy for cheering me on every step of the way. Subscribe now and follow the hashtag, something was wrong pod on Instagram. If you like something was wrong and you're not a troll, please consider leaving a five star review

and sharing the podcast with any human who has a map. We will soon be reporting an AMA Q&A episode and we'd love to hear your questions. If you would like to ask a question, please give us a call at 1-3-2-3-323-379-5678. And leave us a voicemail with your first name, location, and question. Your voicemail might be shared on a future episode. If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline

at 1-800-799-SAFE. Later on, the shadow of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of the light of No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Hey, Prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. Or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile

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Wondering how.