Something Was Wrong - S14 E12: Classic Jake Bullsh*t

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

*Content warning: emotional, sexual and physical violence, child abuse, sexual coercion, non-consensual pornography, suicidal ideation.  SIGN THE S14 PETITION HERE:  https://chng.it/BQVyQdJ4gmFor info on how to report a crime related to this season and share related crime tips with our team, please visit somethingwaswrong.com/14 For free and confidential resources, please visit: somethingwaswrong.com/resources To purchase SWW S14 merch, please visit: represent.com/store/somethingwaswrongArtwork by the amazing Sara Stewart @GreaterThanOkay - Instagram.com/greaterthanokayFollow Something Was Wrong on Instagram @SomethingWasWrongPodcastSWW’s theme music –  U think U by Glad Rags, from their album Wonder UnderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psychy Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the cold-butter killers you read about in the news. Listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. This season, guests will be sharing their own testimony in regards to the criminal allegations against Jake Gravbrot. All persons are assumed to be innocent until

proven guilty in a court of law. Yes, experiences are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself, something was wrong, or wondering. At the time of this episode's airing, Jake Gravbrot has not responded to our request for comment. If you have been a victim of Jake Gravbrot or have a crime tip in relation to these matters, please visit somethingwaswrong.com slash 14 for more information. All names of minors involved in this story have been changed for their privacy and protection. Some survivor names have also been changed for anonymity and safety purposes.

Season 14 covers a variety of mature topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence. Content warnings for each episode and resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes. The podcast or any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information expertise or treatment. Thank you so much for listening. We don't know anybody until you turn to turn to run Okay, Wednesday, December 21st, 2pm. We thought the season was over, apparently the universe has other plans. Melissa, if you want to speak about, how's the last week been, Melissa? Well, I was made aware towards the end of last week that Jake had filed for an anti-harassment

order against me in Snahomish County. So I was obviously like, holy shit, what is going on? Someone actually got all the court papers for me because I'm not there. And I mean, it's just kind of wild. His statement is written on the 12th, but it was filed at 11 o'clock on December 13th. So the day of the live. What day did you find this out, Melissa? He filed the 13th and I believe that this was all uploaded on the 15th.

I found out about it on the 16th, a couple days later. So mind blowing to me the audacity, the timing is just strange. I'm trying to communicate with you guys and figure out what's going on. It was like 11 o'clock at night at my hotel and at one point my kids get there and I like went down to the end of the hallway and I'm like in the stairwell,

brawless holding two phones, trying to talk to you guys and record at the same time. I can't imagine for you guys with the whole history and everything that you've been through, how surreal these kinds of moments are. Oh, here, oh, he wrote a whole statement.

Oh, my God, oh, my God. My name is Jacob Grabbrot, and the following is my statement. Over the course of 2022, being aware, made aware to me on February 21st, Melissa has been directly involved in an online harassment campaign to rock targeting me. Her contacts, Melissa and my share of child together and she receives money every month from me through child support. What does that have to do with anything?

I was made aware of a social media page on Instagram using my name and posting messages old public, record information and hearsay directed towards me. Well listen, I had a mutual here. He is again with this bullshit. Well listen, I had a mutual five year restraining order against each other. That is still an effect. And I maintained my adherence to that choosing not to wait into this targeted online campaign.

Dude, he's still going to court fucking lying. He never had a restraining order against you. First of all, it's not a five-year restraining order. That, like, expired. That's what we went back to. Right. It wasn't in a free-to-order order. It was a criminal restraining order because you assaulted our child.

I'm so sorry, Melissa. I'm sorry, Melissa. I need to say it to the same person. I started this interview. I'm a ringleader, guys. Melissa, as a ringleader and administrator and an admitted role she played, he's clearly reading. And therefore, been a direct instigator and stalker of me. The campaign began as an Instagram page that grew to nearly a thousand followers, he was keeping track and succeeded in getting me fired at my two jobs based on hearsay and allegations. The page lasted until August of 2022 before it was removed

from Instagram for violating the terms of service. After the terms of service violation of podcasts has begun which has run weekly since October, culminating in a live question answer with Melissa on December 13th. As of now, December 12th, I have for nine weeks been subjected to direct threats of violence, wishing of harm, stalking, hacking attempts, online defamation, financial violation, and more that I'm probably forgetting about, and my attempt to finally put a stop to this. I've included proof of this, via screenshots, receiving threats of violence has me feeling unsafe in my day-to-day activities, including word. There's like a smudge on this, so I can't read part of this.

Something myself and spending time with close friends and family, I used to it. This is like really hard to read. I used to live in the city, and I'm accustomed to walking with purpose and diligence while out and about. But this has become a new level of fear and anxiety that I am being subjected to. In April, Melissa opted to dredge up the just expired no contact order. Okay. Again, it wasn't at no contact order. It was a criminal restraining order that I asked to be renewed. I'm like, this is like, madly.

But you do win it. It's fire. You either let it be or you do that. Yeah. I just did it. Yeah, I just did it. This order has resulted in five years of peace, quiet, and no fear of the other. If not for my knowledge of the online harassment campaign, I'd have not put any thought into Melissa

for the duration of the no contact order. On my end, she was very successfully no longer a part of my thought process. It was nice and I was at peace. In my opinion, as Melissa was a direct admin for this online campaign, the show of taking me to court again was an attempt to score points online, but not for any actual legal good. And as she was the petitioner, the burden of proof stood on me in an attempt to keep the piece for another year,

the court sided with caution to extend this order for one more year. So be it, I had no quong with this, on my end other than knowing for her it was to score points online. The actual order itself wouldn't change my life in any way. I'd avoided her for good reason for five years prior and I, yeah, because you would go to jail. It's fucking dumbass. I will and shall continue to avoid her further. Oh my god, there's a whole nether page of this. No.

The last three months, however, have seriously changed how I view the actual order needs to be directed. I've done my job holding up agreement of no contact. Melissa has not. How is me telling my story on a podcast breaking no contact? It's not. And also he never had a no contact order. No, it's not no contact.

I have a domestic violence restraining order against him. That's not a great upon no contact order. Right. The judge can see that. The judge can see that. This is involvement in this has directly caused threats of harm to come my way. It has resulted in a year and a year's long financial hardship ongoing. The financial side of things is frustrating and unfair, in my opinion, but I never let that stop me from securing work and ensuring that every month my agreed upon child support was paid.

However, it is the new and real threat of harm towards me that has left me thinking more about my own mortality and well-being. How, when taken too far, the mob gets stirred up is a direct result of the leader holding the spatula. Here now, and in the past, Melissa is the leader and direct instigator. Fully aware of what is happening, I fear for my safety. I shouldn't have to live in this state. We are all aware of how things conspire in situations like that. That's why I'm asking for immediate and direct intervention. I am asking that Melissa be ordered for no contact harassment and online defamation of me.

Jacob Grapprock. He's asking that I be restrained from harming him. And anyway, no contact. Exclude and stay away. The protected person, the protected person's residence. The protected person's vehicle, protected person's workplace. He's claiming stalking behavior, he's asking me to be restrained from distributing or possessing intimate images of him. Barf, he asked for me the restrained person must admit to electronic monitoring and restrained person shall get an evaluation for mental health. Oh, and he wants me to pay his fees and costs. And surrender weapons, just going through this whole list. I mean, it's just wild.

All of these. Jacob, he's Jacob now, you guys. So be aware, no one would ever know this unless we clarified, but Jacob Grafbrot is also Jacob Grafbrot, just be aware. He's trying to go by Jacob because we even had a coworker of his right in and say that he gets mad if anybody calls him Jake. He only will go by Jacob now. I think he's since left that place of work and is now working somewhere else. The strangest part is the fucking spatula. We didn't even know the merch opportunity that was missed

here. When this season started we we could have had whole season 14 spatulas for sale. Somebody said leaders with spatulas here to stir shit up. Kaelin, it's ridiculous because the court can look up what it is. It's not like they're not able to look that up. And so for him to lie to the court, it's like, come on. The other thing that he says is my agreed upon child support was paid right now, the cases with the prosecutors. So he has to pay $700 a month total for both Ivy and Emerson.

It used to include Bowie, but now that he's of age, he's and he's graduated, that's not he's not in there as well. But it was for the two of them, that's not something we agreed upon. We didn't agree to get less money. He made that agreement with the prosecutor so he doesn't go to jail. It's not an agreed he makes it sound like this is an agreed upon child support with Melissa and I when that is not the case. At one point, he was paying $25 for all three kids during the pandemic. It's frustrating because this is a man that cannot contain himself from bragging

when he was on social media or online anywhere. He cannot contain himself. He's constantly like, look at all these new clothes I got. Look at this vacation I'm going on. So you're being made aware of those things and then getting court papers saying, oh, he's broke and not working. While he's contradicting that and posting online, I made more money this year than I've ever made. Anytime he does anything, it dredges up my anxiety to like huge levels because despite the fact that I think he's a total dumbass and I mean like this statement, he just sounds like an

idiot. Even his examples in here of things that I'm supposedly doing, it's like people being mean to him or saying mean comments or a screenshot from the official, something was wrong, Instagram page or the the flyer for the live. I don't understand none of it is even like me. He has a couple comments of mine from online and they're not even anything to do with anything. It's just so weird.

And it's almost laughable and we do laugh about it, but it is scary at the same time because, you know, this is somebody that's super unstable and he's dangerous when he gets into these positions where he has nothing left to lose or he's facing consequences. That's when he's at his most dangerous. And that's when we've seen the craziest behavior from him is when he's backed up against the wall. This is like times a 100 because there's going to be not much to fall back on because of the fallout from his own actions, the consequences that he's had.

Caitlin probably can add to that too. It's just not surprising. Obviously hearing the statement that he wrote is really triggering, reading anything of his sounds so much different than if just anybody wrote it. Most people don't write like that, but it's not surprising that he's grasping at straws and trying to file something. I'm sad that Melissa has to deal with it all. I wish that I was there to help. How can he file things that are lies and have no repercussions for what he's doing?

That's the other thing is we're so used to him doing these things where he just gets away with everything. He's not smart. He actually added one of the photos that he added in, and there's no explanation with this at all. So I don't know why he added it. There's no context. Most of these, he's like written all over them,

but this one doesn't. It's the picture of the security camera in his apartment. I'm like, why would you put that into public record? That's so bizarre. And then he's got a screenshot of the actual Jake accountability page with the bio that says Jake Gravbrot is a dangerous abusive narcissist. This account exposes decades of his mental physical abuse towards women. And he's painting a picture that it doesn't paint him in a good light. I can't imagine like taking

this to a judge and being like people are picking on me. People are being mean to me. That's basically what he's saying in this. Most of it is things that strangers are saying on the internet. And he's making the leap that because I was an admin on the Instagram page, I'm somehow, I don't know, like encouraging all of these people to do that, which none of us have ever done that. None of us have ever told people, go find him or harass him or anything like that.

There's one more page. What is this? One more page. Oh, here's the actual motion. They denied this. So yeah, for Brickene days to provide more evidence, to have it filed. One thing that didn't make it into the podcast, because it was a later discovery when we were going through the evidence, there was these text messages when we were going through the evidence. There was these text messages that we had found that Mimi had provided.

Sarah, can you just speak to what Jake alleged in the text messages since you were actually with him that same weekend? Yeah, I think in the text messages it was clear like Mimi was pressing Jake a little bit on his alibi and what he was doing or questioning him about stuff. And his go-to defense is always I'm having the hardest time of my life and pour me stories and in this particular instance I think he went to the whole saying that when he was in DC someone was literally dying in his arms and That's something that never happened if it was factual

I definitely would have heard about it considering I was in DC with him for at least 24 hours. And then when I left, we were talking constantly. There was no way I would not have heard about that. So it's just another one of his tactics. Yeah, I have it. Okay, so this is the text message exchange between Mimi and Jake. This was definitely after Mimi and I had connected

because she had changed his contact photo to a photo. He took and sent me when he was in Milwaukee. As a reminder I think that he's always lying. She's definitely asking him about who he had been with and who he had been traveling with and then she asked him about DC when he responds DC was insanity. I saw someone die. I held him as he died. And she goes, yeah, with your girl there.

I bet that was hell of a tough. To which he responds with his classic, I've been through too much this year. I'm having a hard time. This is all too much. I wasn't there for that. She flew out for one day. My job was to cover the march on Washington.

She just happened to decide to fly. I'm sorry, eternally sorry. And I'll go to my grave with that sorrow and my heart for the pain I have caused. So it's just like classic Jake bullshit. We definitely feel for anyone that has to deal with him as this is all going down anytime, but especially now, because we do fear for them

while we would love that line of communication to be open and we have the receipts. We just know what it's like to be so in it and be manipulated by him and to question your own reality. We feel for whoever's going through that currently. He really knows how to pick him. He can spot women that are kind and empathetic. He's very calculated and purposeful and he's not just going through life seeing what happens.

Everything is very calculated. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondery's Podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses.

The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. The second portion of today's episode was recorded live on December 13th, 2022. At our season 14, something was wrong live Q&A recording event.

This audio has been edited for re-broadcast. Hi, I think we're live, are we live? Oh my gosh, thank you guys so much for joining us. I am so, so excited to be here. This is a completely new experience and different thing for us. So thank you all for being a part of that. We're gonna kick off with some pre-submitted questions.

If we don't get to all the questions, we will make time for the actual episode that's going to air a few weeks from now after the finale. How many women came forward was the first question. It's really important to preface with we have no idea the exact number because it's been measurable at this point unfortunately due to the Instagram page being taken down. The number that we have just from the timeline that was impartial that we created was around 45.

If you were up to you, what would happen to Jake? What would be the outcome of this this podcast and this sort of movement that you guys have all created? And I want to I wanted to start by saying I really wanted this time together to be a celebration of what these women have done, not only the women at this table, but all of the survivors as well as the men who came forward to support the survivors who spoke with me on and off the record. The fact that this has also all taken place in like this amount of time is maybe you guys could speak to that what it's been like, because it's been like zero to a hundred I feel like all year.

Okay, so with the Instagram, it was kind of overwhelming at first. We were getting a lot of people coming forward. For me, I can only mentally hang on to so much. It was a really sad time because I definitely wish it ended with me. I just feel really bad that it continued and that I wasn't able to stop it. This is our best idea to try to either stop him or slow him down. Obviously, we would love for him to actually be investigated for the claims. It would be nice to be taken seriously.

We have Sarah here via Zoom. Did you want to chime in on that one? Sure. Yeah, I can really only echo what you guys have said. I think that a lot of the women that came forward, especially only had the suspicion, or were really worried about being recorded, it would be great to put some of those worries to ease and find out for fact and brought to justice for that. One thing that I think is really important, and I wanted to speak to, is like, in the trauma

cycle, obviously there is the honeymoon stage, there's the good behavior, the bad behavior, and everything in between. The show is called something was wrong, not something was right. So we're not going to talk a lot about something was right. We talk about the good times very briefly on the show, because we don't have time. This person has perpetuated so much harm and abuse.

I'm barely fitting it all into 12 episodes. That is the impact of this person. That is how horrible that this person is and the impact that they have had is just like a complete wake. I know that that's something that came up. Like I hope they're going to talk about the good times. What do you say to that? First of all, I would have edited it out because we don't have time to talk about all the good times. I feel like we tried to really speak to it without giving tons of examples. It's been a long time. Back when I met him, it was 15 years ago,

and we didn't talk about trauma cycles. There was no talking about narcissistic abuse or gaslighting red flags like nothing, right? So I could tell that there was a cycle because I could feel things moving through. There's a beloved bombing and then calm. The calm was always kind of mundane. It's day-to-day stuff. I was, you know, we were living together. I really didn't see him very much

because our schedules were so opposite that I didn't spend very much time with him. Well, you were pregnant. So having to take the bus to work while he slept in. So the calm and then then the building and that's like walking on eggshells, I could feel something happening. The big difference is like the cycle starts moving quicker and quicker, right? It was happening every maybe six months and then as time went on, it was happening like monthly. So toward the end there, it was once a month, there was like love bombing calm, the

building up and then the blowup. It wasn't long. It was like always for like four hours, and then it was, I'm so sorry in this and this, and a lot of emails and letters and texts that were very super over the top. A lot of the times he was like, I'm never gonna do that again.

While he usually would stick to his word, like when he spit in my face, like I'm going to do that again. Well, he usually would stick to his word. Like, when he spit in my face, like, I'm never going to do that again. He never did that again, but then he did these other things. It was a long time ago. And so it is really hard for me to remember the good times because it was a really long time ago. And like, all the really bad stuff stuck.

It's hard for me to speak to that because it was so long ago and I just, it didn't stick. Yeah. It's just so interesting how the focus so often, and I don't want to spend too much time talking about like trolls and comments and negative things like that, but I know that you guys have participated in that a little bit and so that has kind of like filtered in a little bit, and so that has filtered in a little bit. But I think that it's really easy to forget that when people are tuning in sometimes, that these are real human beings.

This is their real life. This is not entertainment. I understand that element and aspect of it, but I hope that with this season, because you guys are using your real names and your faces, I hope that it humanizes survivors to those people who struggle to understand and spend their time focusing on why did she stay instead of anything,

but Jake's horrible behavior. Okay, why was the Instagram taken down? Well, first of all, I think we should clarify, we didn't take it down. Sarah, do you want to speak to that? From the start, we had the Instagram set to private and you're pretty selective about filtering who got to see it. We went and followed people knowing who they were or you know that they were adjacent to Jake in some way. So when they would follow back, we would accept them. Any of the children that were old enough to see the paid, we wanted to protect them.

And then to, we just didn't want Jake to be able to see a lot of this stuff because we weren't sure what the reaction would be or that it would get reported and taken down before it got to do any good. Eventually, that's what happened. Once we went public, it was pretty much out of our control and we felt like it had grown big enough at that point.

Whatever was going to happen from that point on was beyond us. But I'm sure that there were many attempts to get that Instagram taken down and reported. I personally have never submitted a report on Instagram or tried to get anything taken down or flagged, but I have heard that it's like a lengthy process and most of the time nothing is done. This didn't happen till August, it took quite some time, but I think enough reporting had been done, and the investigation protocol for Instagram is kind of weird.

I think it depends on what you're being reported for. We were reported for human exploitation, which is a charge that you can't even dispute. So once we got the notification that the Instagram was going to be taken down, it had been a race. We couldn't even put in a claim till our side of it for review. And this is the only case in which that's the outcome. My personal Instagram, my business, Facebook, and personal Facebook were all wiped with it

because I was the one who created it. So I think it was tied to my phone number or my IP, even though I used different email addresses and I tried to get around that. All my stuff got wiped with it. So I had to kind of like start all over again. I just felt so bad for Sarah. She had so much that she lost in that whole process. Pictures of her kids on and stuff like that too, right Sarah? And your business page, things of that nature. You would still do it again.

I don't think that there was a way around. Someone had to create it, and I'm glad that it was me. By all means, I just take it as a side. It was time to re-brand and I start out in a business aspect. Is Jake's family a part of Emerson and Ivy's lives? No, no, no. Are there boundaries in place to protect Emerson and Ivy?

Yes. Yeah, there's the Parent Team plan is no contact, no visitation. I don't really expect to hear anything from him, maybe ever again. We've turned a corner now, whereas before, I thought really guilty, removing him. One of the questions was have y'all had contact with Bowie? Yes. Yes. Jakes oldest. Yes. Does J. Cabbs siblings, and if so, do they his family think?

What do they think? Do you guys know what they think? I mean, we know one of them is to Jake's mom's reactions when she would try to involve her with stuff. His older half sister, I don't think that they have very much of a relationship. They really didn't ever, when I was around, he has two younger half siblings from his mom and his stepdad.

And I know one of them followed the Instagram and was watching everything. So I'm assuming they know everything now and you know that yeah, and his cousins are pretty aware of what's going on. And so I think it's kind of like filtered through the family.

Maybe a little bit. I don't really know were they in court? They were not in court, but his mom did right. She was one of the character witness statements and Kaelin had sent his mom the pictures of I.D. space. So she knew. Yeah. And she still wrote that statement for him. So did you find the court process helpful? No. No. Absolutely not. It was a miserable experience. Obviously I talked about my process with trying to get him for justice.

And that the detective twice tried to bury that case, did not want him charged. He cried though. Yeah, he cried. He felt bad. He felt bad. You could ruin his life. I don't know how anybody could argue that after seeing the photos. It's disgusting. This man is incredibly capable of manipulating judges. And I think, Caitlin and I listened to this thing earlier, and I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something about family court doesn't exist to protect children.

It exists to protect parenting rights. They care more about parental rights than they do about. Preserving his rights as a parent, than they do about protecting the child. And that's incredibly frustrating, not to mention that judges are not always trained in domestic violence. So they don't necessarily know how to handle someone like Jake who is not going to change. He's going to continue to get worse. So you're giving him chance after chance after chance, he's going to continue to get worse. So you're giving him chance after chance after chance, and he's going to continue to escalate,

which means you are just continuing to put these children in danger. Co-worship, narcissism, and coercive abusers is so insidious. There's so much happening below the surface, and that's something that everybody really spoke to. And it's really prevalent when we look at people who hide in social justice spaces, churches, doctors, anywhere where you're automatically sort of given this invisibility cloak or this

natural trust that you gain by holding that position of power. And as we saw with Jake, he completely exploited every workplace he was put into, every opportunity he was given. He essentially used it to exploit manipulate and harm women and children. I think it's just confusing for some folks who haven't encountered someone like that because they're like, but they seem really nice. And it's like, yeah, behind closed doors, that's not the person they are. That they're really good at what they do. I went to court with lots of evidence. I had him talking about getting guns and killing us and all this stuff and they're like,

well, he's talking about you and yeah, we'll get, give you a restraining orbit, but not for her. And so I was thinking, I don't understand what it takes to protect my daughter from him. What's the most surprising reaction from listeners? Having people reach out and say, like, this is so validating or this really helped me or this is my experience, somebody else messaged me and said,

I have a really close friend that's going through something similar, like, how do I support her? I basically was like, just be there and let her know that you're there for her and give her a safe space. If you're willing, let her know. You're always welcome. No questions asked. Because I think it's really hard to admit

what's going on. It's really embarrassing and so shameful. It is really hard when you're in it. You're not like, you know what I'm gonna do? Yeah, I'm gonna go get an abusive relationship. And then I'll, you know, I'll have a plan in place of what I'm gonna do once I find myself there. I realize, too, Jake's financial abuse on me.

It definitely was purposeful. It took my ability to leave away. I'd have to leave the state to be with my family. As far as bank accounts go, my money was our money, and his money was his money. If you're being financially abused, it's so much harder to leave and you don't have what you need to do that.

Back to the family court thing, I mean, we've had so many people share stories with us of their experiences. And I think it made us both understand like how lucky we are I mean, we've had so many people share stories with us of their experiences. And I think it made us both understand like how lucky we are because this is not a normal outcome for these situations. There are so many people that are still having to send their children on visits with a convicted abuser. Terrific stories that have been shared with us that are just like, there was documented sexual abuse there was documented all of these things and judges are still throwing these kids back into these situations again. I feel so lucky that this worked out the way that it did for me. I just feel so bad for all of these people.

It's horrifying having to be in these situations for so long. What is something you wish people would understand better about your experience? Sarah, or sorry, what you think, do we cut to Sarah? Sarah, you look so cute and you're a little iPad over there. We wish you were here with us. We love you. Well, I love you guys too. Speaking directly to the people who don't understand why people stay, I wasn't with him for very long, so there were enough red flags and negative experiences to walk away, but I would say given my previous trauma, he's really good at

reading people and people like Jake have this skill to read people and know how to appeal to the things of their past and how to manipulate them based on their trauma. Everyone has their own traumas and their own history and family generational stuff that they're trying to break. So given my own and the patterns in my own family and personal life, there is a reason why Jake targeted me and so many other beautiful, intelligent, strong women

who were overly empathetic and giving him so many other beautiful, intelligent, strong women who were overly empathetic and giving him so many passes. And there were so many women within my timeline. We were in COVID. These were passes that I was giving him that I wouldn't otherwise give in dating. The financial distress understanding that he was an independent contractor, I was too in losing like I lost so much work in the pandemic and I had to figure out what my next move was. So when he couldn't pay for certain things or he was late on child support,

I was having a lot of empathy for this person and trying to understand that we're in unprecedented times because recent divorce all these things compiled and personally I use those things to excuse these things compiled and personally I use those things to excuse why he was down so bad and let go of a lot of bad behavior but that's if it's not COVID it's something else with these type of people so they'll always find something to get you to excuse these patterns get you to excuse their bad behavior and their abuse. I think the hardest part is they show you enough of the good stuff that you have a hard time reconciling that when something happens that's outside of their control what tends to come out there. So then you're having to take these two people that don't match up and

try to figure out what is what or the truth is somewhere in the middle and that's why it's so hard to leave that cycle because your heart wants to believe one thing and then your head starts to leave the other. Getting out within six months, like I'm proud of myself for that. And I hope that other people have compassion for themselves and don't listen to the internet or someone who doesn't have that same experience. We have enough guilt and shame as it is staying warm. But there's nothing really to be embarrassed about. We about world breaking our own things and our own patterns.

So I think that everyone should be proud for seeing what signs that they did and then use that to reconcile how to move forward. Yeah, absolutely. I think like instead of asking women why they stay, maybe congratulate them on getting out alive and making it through. We were being studied. He was manipulating us. It's hard to figure out what's real and what's not because he's taking everything that

you are insecure about and using it against you. Then you start to doubt yourself and you start to feel like you're crazy. What has it been like having so much of yourself, especially such a delicate and sensitive parts of yourself, especially such a delicate and sensitive parts of yourself out there. Melissa, the experience that you went through, your daughter went through, is so incredibly painful and horrific, and I'm sure it wasn't a decision you made lightly. Can you speak to that? Yeah, I mean, none of it is overly easy to talk about. I mean, we are sharing the worst moments of our lives. It's difficult to put it into words, how you arrive to the place to decide to share on a

platform like this. It's definitely for the greater good. We just really want to slow them down. This is for me. Did I ever get a hold of Justin Bieber's team for a statement? Justin, and I'm waiting and ready whenever you are. My did send a statement, the official way through to his publicist, they did not respond for comment, which is not uncommon. Why do we decide to use real names? I remember meeting with you, Kaylyn, the first time, do you mind if I speak to that? And you're just like, he's just going to keep doing this. His name is already out there. Please consider this. We wouldn't have done it if we didn't.

Right. Is real name only because that's was our driving force was to slow him down or to stop him. And it's like, well, what's the point if nobody even knows it's him? Right. And also his name was already out there. It's not something that any of us took lightly. It was very much deliberate

from the gate. Like no fuck Jake Grav brought his name is Jake Grav brought G V B R O T and fuck him all day. For me, seeing the pictures of the babies, I was like, okay, I don't care what happens to me or what's gonna possibly come up onto me because of that. I'm at a place now where I can do this. I am so appreciative of y'all for doing it with me and trusting me because I'm a survivor like y'all and I've certainly learned so much over the seasons but this was like a completely new experience in that way and I'm really, really thankful that I got to go through it with all of y'all and the amazing community, all the women that we've met through Instagram too, that I got to interview and it with all of y'all in. The amazing community, all the women that we've met through Instagram too, that I got to interview

and spend time with. These are incredible women. The coming together of that is so beautiful. And I think is this one of the silver linings within the story. It's like the best part of the story, right? It's like everybody. Yes, it's quite magical to be honest.

Let's see. What would be like a good wrap up question? Let's see. Oh, Amy's got one. But the chat a good wrap up question? Let's see. Oh, Amy's got one. But the chat room would love an update on the women now. Can I grab Michael to come out? Yeah, this is the best.

We have a surprise guest in the room. Come here. This is Michael. This is my husband. He's amazing. We've been married while we're going on three years. This is Emerson's dad. He takes her to shows and teaches her things.

I'm so beyond grateful. And I don't think you probably realized how impactful and like how helpful and just takes her to school every day for me because I'm working and financially supports us. He treats me amazing. I'm so lucky. And I don't think he realizes how amazing he is. Well, I'm happy for both of you.

We've got a few minutes left. Any like last thoughts, I know we kicked off with thank you, but I know that was really important. I'm just really thankful for all of the people that we met through the Instagram. We met some really incredible both men and women, people that have been so supportive have become friends in real life.

Such a positive environment that we created because there's been so much empowerment and friendship that's come out of it. And I'm really thankful for all of that. Yeah. And so much support. Those women supported us from day one,

Carly coming forward and supporting me and like me being able to support her and Julie. And those are both like during my time. So for them to come forward and do that was the gift to me. Carrie's been amazing. Like she reaches out to me. And regularly there's another person that didn't participate, but she reaches out. The list goes on. Maria. Maria. Maria. Maria. Really, really amazing. It's just really all of them.

Ars have been so amazing and it's been really cool to get to know them, like outside of this situation and outside of Jake and be able to like cheer them on and support them, like Maria's in finals right now. Go Maria. Things like that. It's just been really cool. Amazing. Sarah, can you speak to the last question? Yeah, I can just really echo what they're saying. It's been so great getting to know and connect with so many women that came forward on the Instagram page, but everyone that's been invested in the podcast have been really supportive and sharing so many kind words.

That's been amazing and extremely validating for each of us connecting with Kaelin and Melissa. They have become like my family and the girls like I love them. They know my daughter. You guys are my family now. So that is the silver lining and all of this and huge thank you to Tiffany for bringing us like this platform to you know be able to share our stories. So that's huge to us. I'm so grateful. Yeah. It's an honor and a. So that's huge to us and we're so grateful. Yeah. It's an honor and a privilege. You're all amazing.

I love you so much. I just want to like echo really quick with Sarah said, Melissa's my best friend. We normally talk every day with all of this. There's like a little less chatter between us, but it does not usually include anything about Jake or best friend separate from all this. And she's my

family and Sarah's now part of that. I'm just really lucky to have these ladies in my life. Absolutely. And you now too, you're part of that. I can't remember any sorry. Thank you so much all three of you and again every survivor and participant this season for coming together and supporting the survivors. Thank you thank you. Thanks for listening. Yes, thank you for listening. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production created and hosted by me, Tiffany Rees. If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow something was wrong on Instagram.

At something was wrong podcast. Our theme song was composed by Glad Rags. Check out their album, Wonder Under. Thank you so much. Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today, or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.