Something Was Wrong - S16 E7: 5150

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

This episode comes out for free on Thursday June 22nd 2023. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free on Amazon Music — included with Prime. Another way to listen early and ad-free is subscribing to Wondery+ in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery App. *Content Warning: interpersonal violence, alcohol and substance use disorder, body-image abuse, emotional abuse, fatphobia, fraud, financial elderly abuse, disordered eating, anorexia, childhood abuse, gun violence, death, murder, police brutality, suicidal ideation. *Sources: Atypical anorexia information: https://childmind.org/article/what-is-atypical-anorexia-nervosa/ Negative impacts of fat shaming: Fat shaming is making people sicker and heavier Vogel L. CMAJ. 2019 Jun 10;191(23):E649. doi: 10.1503/cmaj.109-5758. PMID: 31182466; PMCID: PMC6565398.Lizzo’s Official Website: https://www.lizzomusic.com/ Lizzo’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lizzobeeating/ Ruben’s statement via youtube: https://youtu.be/jSForwD_lRA Vigil for #Justice4BobbyHenning 2/21/14 Paramount CA. By: inLeague Press 2014.Free and confidential resources + safety tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources Artwork by the amazing Sara Stewart:@GreaterThanOkay - Instagram.com/greaterthanokaySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psychy Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the cold-butter killers you read about in the news. Listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychy Daily in the Amazon Music exclusive podcast killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences as it discusses topics that can be upsetting such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence.

Content warnings for each episode and confidential and free resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes. Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes. pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by guests on this show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or wondering. The podcast or any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional expertise or treatment.

All persons are considered innocent and less proven guilty in a court of law. Thank you so much for listening. Okay, it's Thursday, June 8, 2023. Show them your voice, Amy. Good morning. Amy's losing her voice for a thing, but she assures me it doesn't hurt. I've actually never had it happen, so it's crazy, but like, yeah, of course, like the one time I'm a podcaster, and need to use my voice. Right. Well, I love a raspy voice, so I think it's great.

It adds some razzle dazzle this week. I love that for us. We're getting closer to the end here. How does that make you feel? It feels weird because I really haven't communicated with folks much about it. I've had a few interactions with people, so it's weird working so hard and like gutting yourself and then putting it out there. I've been really extra introverted with my friends and family.

I've been more in my head, very tired and reflecting a lot on a lot of things. In self-preservation mode too. It also helps me see as I repeat these things back and I look at the birds I view the greater picture. It helps me have more empathy for myself in the struggles that I still have on a daily basis, which there are many. If it hasn't been clear to people enough, I'm extremely human and make mistakes all day, every day, like everybody else. It has to feel very weird to be sharing something so intimate and knowing that it's spreading far and wide and you're making an impact, but you're doing it in a bubble because you've created a bubble

of protection around you. Yeah, so holding space for that and allowing myself to just turn my areas shit down slightly for a couple months and focus on this right now. But I went to go try and finish my tattoo. I had done an outline. I'm covering this chest piece that I've had that I got when I was 18 that I've hated forever and it just felt like the right time. I honestly think it's so symbolic too that you're doing it right now. Sorry, keep going. No, yeah, I think it I think it really is, but I went to go get it and then I can 30 minutes into the dad too passed out. He's like, it is a lot of trauma on your body and it kind of was a wake up call to me like, yeah, maybe my body's going through a route enough right now. You think about books like the body keeps score studies that are done on how the body is also impacted with trauma.

It's interesting because as we dig through each episode in these different times in my life, it's weird because I feel these different physical sensations and different parts of my body. So I've really been paying attention to that too. Again, me being a nerd, data points, always studying everything. Like, is it COVID?

Is it trauma? Is it period? Is it what allergies? Like, what is it? But also, I haven't been eating enough. My anxiety has been triggered. I'm working on it. And that's the other thing that I think is important to acknowledge is Disordered eating is something that I've struggled with since childhood and it's something I struggle with on a daily basis. It's an ongoing thing for me. It's really interesting. The perceptions that people have of fat people based off of things I read or comments that

I hear people make or I've had made towards me and the actual reality. First of all, I think it's important for people to remember that there are real and extremely valid reasons why people can have unexplained weight gain due to medical diagnosis. The top reasons that dictate someone's size or their body fat is genetics. Also access to healthy food. There are such things as food deserts. There are mental health reasons. There are a plethora of reasons why someone could be what you perceive as fat. Other than they can't stop eating cheeseburgers. I've seen a lot of hatred for Lizzo lately and I am a huge Lizzo fan. It's disgusting to see the way that people talk about her and the assumptions that they make about her. She performs

on stage for hours. She's on an extremely healthy vegan diet and it's nobody's fucking business. It's nobody's business to comment on her body or comment on her weight or her size But people feel entitled to do it every single day and it pisses me the fuck off She is not your body positivity guru. She is just trying to create and perform her incredible music She is a professionally trained flutist and who I saw these posts and and what stupidly read some comments and it's a great reminder for me how ignorant people are and that's why I spoke to those points. A lot of the people in the comments are like she's glorifying obesity and it's like no she's literally just trying to exist. This is why when I go

out I don't like to eat in front of people. This is why when I go out, I don't like to eat in front of people. This is why when I go out, I struggle to like purchase food because I know that people are looking at me and seeing a fat woman and they're assessing what I'm buying and they're judging it. When I go to a restaurant, I know that people are assessing what I'm eating and how I'm eating it because I've seen them do it my whole life. That's part of the reason also that restaurants and grocery stores and things like that personally stress me the whole life. That's part of the reason also that restaurants and grocery stores and things like that personally stress me the F out. What's interesting is a lot of people don't realize that there's something called it really it should just be called anorexia, but it's called a typical anorexia and it is a type of disorder eating that I

struggle from and I would encourage people if they want to have a more compassionate understanding of the different ways that anorexia can present itself physically, I would encourage people to look into that. And also, we don't do that. We don't walk up to every person that's drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes and be like, are you going to be around for an extra seven years for your family? No. I just wish that people would understand and have compassion, because it seems like people make a lot of assumptions. And of course, exercise, eating a balanced diet, drinking water, abstaining from alcohol, smoking cigarettes,

make us healthy, regardless of our size. It seems like it's one of those areas where people feel so entitled to be fat fullback, and they don't keep that same health energy, their concerns for people's health, about people's mental health, and honestly fat-chaming people and emotionally abusing fat people. Actually, if you look at the scientific evidence, doesn't lead to healthier results. It leads to more disordered eating and individuals. For example, because I experience a lot of shame when it comes to purchasing food for myself and eating out when I'm traveling like this week, I've been struggling and I haven't been eating enough because

I've been embarrassed. So I'll avoid eating meals. So then I didn't end up eating enough. I ended up fainting getting my tattoo That was my fault, but the shame induces for me Unhealthy or eating habits than anything else. I'm not trying to blame other people or place Quote blame on anyone. I'm just trying to speak to my personal experience in hopes that other people will feel validated by what I'm sharing and experience in hopes that other people will feel validated by what I'm sharing. And perhaps people who are not being honest with themselves about how fat phobic they are and why they're fat phobic and where that is coming from, I hope it will open people's minds a little bit. It's not like nobody who's fat doesn't know that they're fat. Also, we really don't need you to tell us that

we're fat or that you think we need to lose weight. Society tells us that every single day. We don't need your help. That's all. It's interesting how having this first person experience of going through what the survivors go through when they share their experiences. I've always had so much respect for the energy they give. And that's why I always say it in the episodes. Thank you for your time and energy because the energy is what's so costly, right? Especially in this life, on this earth, in these United States. And without being completely done as we get into these last few episodes, I feel like I've already accomplished what I came here to do, which is share a bit about myself

and what makes me who I am and what brought me to this work and why I was inspired to create something was wrong and broken cycle media. You've always been trauma informed. You've always educated yourself on the dialogue and the correct terms and you've always been really sensitive and empathetic. But now you have literally put yourself through the same process that your guests go through, and you not only understand their experiences, but you understand to a whole other level. I compliment you all the time on the fact that you can take an existing production and always look to see how you can make it better, and I think this was just another

byproduct that might come from you sharing your story too, which will just make this show that much more powerful. Thank you. As people have probably noticed, I'm never one to like, not change things up, and I'm gonna continue to change things up. The things you believe need to be changed, because some things don't need to be changed. Some things do, some things don't, for sure. We definitely listen to people's feedback, the team, and I discuss it, and we definitely consider it deeply.

And sometimes we set it to the side, and we're like, okay, we hear you, thank you for that. And sometimes we're like, oh, that's, yeah, that's great feedback. We didn't realize that XYZ would be helpful or whatnot. So it is really valuable, and I appreciate it, especially when it's constructive or kind. But going through this process has also made me want to get back to my roots. Over the years, people have noticed that structure has changed, networks have changed, things have changed, I've changed. The world has changed. COVID changed a lot about how we had to record, and of course, the first time I did travel after COVID for recording for work, I did get COVID

and ended up getting stuck in a hotel room for an extra like week and a half. But yeah, so I know I had shared before every other season I might do short stories or might do long stories. I don't even think I need to like be that held down. I think we're going to tell the stories that need to be told in the order they need to be told when they're ready to be told in whatever format the story needs. And that's a really cool thing about audio and being your own boss. For season 17, we're actually gonna do another long form story. Season 18 might be long form, might be short form, it really just depends on whatever stories need to be told or are ready to be told in that moment. Yeah, changing things up where we need to through the season,

through my own reflection of my own journey, reflecting on the podcast and how much the podcast has helped me mature and grow as a human being over these last four years. Amy and I are also in our internal partners are working on some educational episodes in the future. We used to include a lot of the educational information within the episodes and what we've decided to do is create separate episodes that will be called data points in the United States. One of our nerdy little favorite phrases and it'll include educational information on specific topics. Obviously, education has been at the forefront since the beginning.

So this is just making an extra space for it that'll make it easier for people to digest if they are unable to listen to certain content for various reasons. It'll also be more appropriate for a wider audience and easily shareable. So I'm really excited about it to support survivors in our community and get the information out there on really important topics like childhood abuse, police brutality, mental health, disorders, social issues, things that matter to our community. I'm not trying to like make this sound like a info-marchael today or anything. I'm just really excited about what's to come beyond this season too as we start to wrap up. The last few months have definitely been a time of reflection. For me, not only in my personal life, my professional life, it is

good to like take stock of everything you've been through and then possess. Okay, what is the life that I want and then just start building it? And also pairing back what doesn't serve you. Totally. And that's something I've had to continually do since season one is figuring out, okay, this worked, this didn't work. You just pivot. You're growing as a creator. I can't wait to watch all of this happen. But right now, I love that you're serving yourself

by protecting yourself because you don't need that feedback right now. Thank you, as vulnerable as it's felt. It's not only made me feel closer to listeners and are something was wrong, our broken cycle community, but it's also made me feel closer to people in my everyday life, too. Hearing that people are listening to it, I'm like, oh, okay, so that person knows me a little bit better in a way that they probably didn't before.

You're being seen. It's almost like how I felt. It's just like living in my own truth for the first time in this life. Letting people know all of this and letting people understand me, even the people that I have known for years. I think this is really poignant, especially in Pride Month, and I don't mean to relate it to Pride. I think just in Pride Month, Pride Month, June, the point of it is to live your trueest self. Yeah, I was gonna compare it to like coming out.

You know, be that person in your own life that you want to be or that you are and to live that truth effectively and honestly. And I think that's the point in Pride Month. It was unplanned, but like... I know, totally unplanned timing. Everything about the timing was unplanned, but yeah. I was gonna say, I shared people who knew me intimately,

you know, in high school, knew I was bisexual. So, to those people, of course, there wasn't a secret. However, I didn't share that broadly beyond that circle of friends. And then, after the incident that had the sexual assault, I did not talk to people about it anymore. And then, actually, in 2020, I was struggling with this and a survivor who's been on the show

and a friend of mine, Jez, I was talking to her about it and I was like, I feel like it seems silly to come out as a 30 something married woman, but I kept thinking about my kids that I could make an environment and a home and a space where I could be open about my identity and therefore could potentially make them more comfortable in our home. And that really was my motivation. It was like the first step and seeing that by sharing myself, I could make spaces more

comfortable for other people to be themselves too. So yeah, sharing my story of my abuse while it's very different, coming out, experience, it does feel a lot like letting people know me in it way that felt similar when I came out before. I don't know, it's weird. It's just like letting people know you. But I think that's really what the whole point of life and living our truth and just being a human is about

is refining and sloughing off that shit that society puts on you. This is me, all of me, to be received and accepted. That's such a beautiful feeling. It's so different than trying to fit into this box and be swallow abull to people. There's so much more value. Yeah, too. When I reflect on my story and like how I have often prioritized other people's feelings and how I was responded to when I would share my feelings, it's made me validate myself a bit reflecting on that. I've come a long way. My 20s was a lot of unlearning. I always want to be a teachable person. as I really said in season eight. So every day I see an opportunity to assess my intention, my impact. What's funny is I think my lack of sometimes interaction or my boundaries over the years has

perhaps given some people the impression that I don't care. I assure you that I care more than anybody has ever cared since the beginning of time. You care, like as much as all the people together from the wind And I know anybody Until you turn to the sun What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed? What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that

brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen Little did I know it at the time, but in 2009, as Michael and I are having our first kid and entering into parenthood and this new chapter ourselves, Bob was heading back

to court to appeal his charges regarding the National Medical Services scam that he was serving time for. I later in 2021 will get a hold of this appeal and we'll get into that in a future episode, but for the purposes of this time, all I knew was that a few news articles had come out. And within those articles, it did mention fraud, including targeting elderly or impacting elderly persons. And that was the first I had ever heard of that. Bob had done such a good job at convincing me that he was being targeted essentially at first.

It was really hard to make sense of it. But as I started to get more time away from that environment as Bob was away longer, and as I was able to process things, it became apparent that there was a lot more to this story than I knew. Something that I think speaks volumes to Bob's inflated self-esteem is that while Bob was serving time in prison for fraud. He would send me letters and inside the letters there would be pages from a yellow legal pad. Bob was writing a book on business

from prison and was sending me the pages and asked me to store them for him so that they wouldn't get lost so that when he was released from prison for fraud of his business, Sizz, that he could have the pages to publish this book on business. It's a really good example of how utterly delusional Bob was about his abilities, especially when it came to business. As I mentioned before, Bob would pass of aggressively mention to me things about visiting him or putting money on his books and things like that. And for a time I did, but as the newest article started coming out and I started slowly trying to process what had taken place. Before Jude had been born, I had stopped writing to him and hadn't responded and was trying to figure out my own life, trying to compartmentalize and not really think about my parents and their legal

troubles as much as possible. We had moved throughout these years, having children, and we were definitely on. And even tighter budget than before, it was really difficult throughout all of these years, as it is for many people. There was an incident one day a letter came in the mail, and I noticed that it was different from the prison because it was typed, which I thought was really odd. I didn't even know that they had access in this person to a typewriter or a computer, but it did appear to be written on a typewriter. This letter was allegedly from an inmate who was with Bob advocating on Bob's behalf, telling me that I needed to put money on his books and how he's the victim and how sad it is for him and how terrible

his family is and how he's been abandoned. Within reading halfway through the letter, I could tell that this was a letter written by Bob and he thought I was stupid enough to think that if he typed it, I wouldn't be able to tell that he wrote it. So essentially, he was trying to capfish me from prison pretending to be this other inmate that was behind bars with him. There's really only two options, either he was catfishing me and wrote this, which I believe with every part of me. Or two, he had given my address to some random dude in prison to write me this letter. Either way was fucking ridiculous.

Either way was fucking ridiculous. After that, I did finally write him, and I let him know that basically I knew what he had done, and that he could fuck off, and that I would no longer be communicating with him, and that I was having a baby and had gotten married, and I'm focusing on my own life now. Basically, you're full of shit. I saw the news articles. You're clearly not telling me what was going on here and essentially I want nothing to do with you. And that was the last time I spoke to Bob for quite some time. The more time that I was able to become my own person and an adult building my own life and get time and space away from the toxic environment the more I was able to

see it for what it was. When I started having children, I was able to advocate more easily with the thought of how the choices I made impacted my children and the kind of environment that I wanted my children to be raised in. And I definitely didn't want Bob anywhere near my children. 2009 through 2012, we were really focused on raising our kids. Bobbi and his girlfriend, we found out we're actually having a baby and gave birth to my niece about six months after my first born. Jude was born. I'll never forget when he called and told me I was having a baby

and I was so young and so scared and he's four years younger than me almost. I instantly was excited but terrified for him. Bobby and his girlfriend had struggled with substance use disorder, but we'd hoped that this would perhaps be a motivation to them and something that would help them stay sober. There was a lot of mixed emotions about it. Bobby and his girlfriend moved to the state that his girlfriend was from into her pregnancy, and they were able to stay with her mom. That gave them some stability, and it also made everyone involved feel a little bit more peace about the transition knowing that they would have a safe place to stay and somebody else in their corner

with Liz and our relationship certainly was challenging but during these years when the kids were really small there was a lot of cute distractions and it was easy to just let her and ever it be Facebook grandparents and show up, take their pictures and buy the kids presents. Maybe have a dinner here and there and it felt pretty positive. Certainly Bobby having my niece was a very exciting time for our family. I really wanted to believe that this was a new beginning, that all of these exciting changes would be continually motivating to Liz to stay sober, keep trying, and be a part of all of our lives. Liz offered to pay for my ticket to fly with her to go visit Bobby and meet my niece. And Jude was young enough that he could fly with me for free. I was nervous about traveling

with Liz because I have so many bad memories of traveling with her or just being with her in general. Yeah, just like generally having to even absorb her energy in any capacity. I'm very focused on my kids and creating my life and my family. And it's kind of like if you can show up and be a part of that and be nice, great. If not, like I'm focused on what I'm focused on right now. But I really wanted to see Bobby and meet my niece. And I was excited and I felt appreciative that she offered to pay for my ticket so I could go. Of course, right out the gate, I had just had a baby and seemed embarrassed. And throughout this trip, she made comments about

my body, my outfits, and she was emotionally very abusive. Like I was such a disappointment to her. She went into this situation with her guard up and she was very competitive with Bobby's girlfriend's mom and feeling very insecure about that. Also people like her, their mask slip most often when they're traveling. Yes, absolutely the fuck that.

Now that I'm thinking about it, whenever we would usually see each other during this time, keep in mind, we would only see each other usually for like an hour or two tops. That's all I could tolerate. When you're traveling, there was nowhere to hide. I would do my best, I literally would find ways to like, hide to the best of my ability. Being on this trip with her, it was a week of uninterrupted her time. I'm also this new postpartum mother trying to navigate exhausted, new body, very young, all the trauma, all the things, just trying to do my best, and she's making me feel like a fat embarrassment once again. As much as I loved seeing Bobby and meeting my niece,

it was very uncomfortable and I felt a lot of competitive, strange vibes amongst Bobby's girlfriend and Liz and then Bobby's girlfriend's mom. And I tried my best to just focus on the babies and my brother and the time we had together and I do have fond memories. Bobby had gone and bought a onesie for Jude of a local football team. I still have it. All of my kids wore that onesie. It was very special. But I was ready to go home. Not only would her mask slip, but sometimes her boyfriend, as he got to know her better, who she actually really was and what she was capable of because now he had seen enough that he couldn't deny it in the same way he could when he first stepped on the scene. He would try really hard to like be a dad to me and I really bought into that.

I really was appreciative of that. He always seemed so much nicer. He was definitely the type person who like gave off vibes like, I'm this liberal male who's comfortable with crying. He was a totally different vibe to Bob, which I appreciated and I was hopeful that he meant the things that he said and he genuinely cared about me and my kids. And I don't know what to make of that. Maybe two things are true and maybe he did really mean it. He had called me just to say hi or check in or whatever. And that's another interesting thing when I reflect. It's like throughout these years, even though I was in contact with Liz, her boyfriend or

her sponsor, they would actually do a lot of the carrying of the relationship and like checking in and communicating with me instead of her. So it gave the impression of her carrying more than she did. I was an extension of herself and she really hates herself so she really hated me too but it's weird because Bobby was an extension of her but she was obsessed with Bobby. She always would criticize Tony what he looked like, how he acted. She really treated him like shit with Bobby. It was like he's so gorgeous, he's so beautiful, he's like a model. I think it also created a lot of tension between Bobby's girlfriend and Liz because they were a seem to be like fighting over him sometimes,

or like who had control over him. Bobby was a very sweet and passive person. As much as he struggled mentally, very isolated incidents of acting out, he was a very sensitive, emotional, private person with a very kind heart. This trip also showed me that he was very much caught in between. I could also see the pattern of the type of partner he was picking and how that partner mirrored Liz. And I don't say that to Judge Bobby, it's just sometimes that happens. I ended up choosing certain female friendships, because I got into adulthood, where I sort of like recreated that relationship with my mom with other

friends, and then became their therapist or their punching bag or whatnot. And it took me a really long time to form what felt like safe relationships of any kind with other women. I obviously love women and says nothing to do with misogyny. It's just a fact that the people that were kindest to me growing up were my brother and my dad. And now, look at, I have the best friend in the world, Amy. I have so many other beautiful, close relationships with women and look at the podcast.

I primarily work with women and I've been able to build so many other beautiful, close relationships with women and look at the podcast. I primarily work with women and I've been able to build so many incredibly close relationships and I am in a completely different place now than I was when I entered motherhood in terms of my comfort with interactions with women. But it's still can be challenging for me because it can be triggering because of my relationship with my mom.

Bobby and his girlfriend decided to move to California with my niece when I believed she was about six to nine months old. And they actually moved in with Liz and Everett and their two bedroom apartment for a short time until they eventually got their own place. I didn't know it yet, but I was pregnant with Ruby and Michael and I had taken Jude to Disneyland. Somebody had given us tickets, which we were very thankful for because it was the only way we could afford to go. We were on our way back from this Disneyland trip and Bobby had called me. And I could tell when I got on the phone with him that he was not sober.

Throughout these years, I had started to put up some boundaries with him in terms of if he was intoxicated, not wanting to be around him, and trying to just create the boundaries that I needed for myself, because obviously that behavior was super triggering, and also because I felt ultimately that setting boundaries would hopefully enable Bobby to change his behavior to see the value he had. I didn't want to enable him, but I also couldn't take care of him the way I had before because now I have it my own child. I have this whole other family and life that I'm responsible for. So it was kind of a challenging time for Bobby and I because I struggled to see him struggling so much and I was unhappy with a lot of the choices that he was making and he was struggling with his mental health and being a young adult, a young parent, and also somebody who had been through an incredible

amount of trauma that had not been processed yet, as his brain is literally still developing because he's so young. I truly believe that him and his girlfriend were doing the best that they could, but there were concerns about my niece and everyone's overall health and safety, so Bobby had called me when we were on our way back from Disneyland. I could tell that he was not sober and he was agitated on the phone. They were looking for a babysitter for my niece

and I was trying to explain to him like, no, I can't do it, I'm coming back from LA. Bobby became very agitated with me and he said a lot of very hurtful things. I was very hurt. We had pulled over because the phone call had become so intense I didn't want to even have it in front of Jude just by him being still like a one year old baby. We were at some random mall off the freeway that we had pulled over and I was standing outside the car in like a GC pennies parking lot that was

completely empty and I remember him screaming at me and saying and insulting things to me on the phone and being really mad that I wasn't available to babysit immediately and me expressing my concerns like what's going on is my niece okay and concerned for everyone's overall health and safety while still trying to set some boundaries and offer my suggestions as his older sister. He just was not having it, didn't want to hear it. After he said the things that he said, I was pretty much like, wow, that was so hurtful. And until you're ready to apologize to me, you can basically fuck off.

Sadly, that was the last real conversation that we would ever have. Because I never imagined that we would not have more time on this earth to figure it out. And I regret that distance in our relationship every single day. A few years after having Jude, I became pregnant with Ruby. They were born about 22 months apart. Michael and I jokingly refer to this as the dark times. Having two kids under two is fucking exhausting and stressful. It was the most adorable stressful time of our lives.

We had our hands very, very full. Honestly, I don't remember too much about where Liz and Everett our relationship was with them at that time. Yeah, you had a lot going on. Yeah, I mean, at the time I was working all day every day, head chef in a kitchen trying to make enough money just to survive, you know, to afford our rental house. I think at the time we were paying like $1,000 a month,

and that was the most we'd ever paid for rent, and it felt crushing at the crushing. At the time Tiffany was at home working and taking care of the children and I was at work five to seven days a week busy to say the least. Finally I had made it to only having one full-time job which as many hours as I put in was like working two full-time jobs, basically. Ruby was a baby, Jude was two, and he was really funny. So much energy when we were actually in the hospital, when Jude was just born, the nurses told us that Jude was the most alert baby they had ever experienced and they had each worked for like 20 years as nurses helping deliver babies and Tiffany and I were just overjoyed at that hearing that like oh my God our babies the most alert but we didn't realize that that meant like he would never go to sleep.

We also were very sleep deprived. Did Liz have a relationship with the kids at that time? She was sober. Yeah. So once she got sober, we drew up some boundaries with her. Like we're encouraged by you being sober and like if you want to be around the kids, you need to be absolutely honest with us about where you're at. If you start drinking again, we understand that addiction sometimes you take a step back, but with Tiffany's experience growing up with her and even my experience over the couple of years I had known her as an adult when she was under the influence, I didn't feel super safe. So letting my kids be around her in that sort of experience or in that state like absolutely fucking not

So we did have those sorts of boundaries. Yeah, and you trusted love your wife and you know the experiences that she shared with you from her childhood We're valid. So knowing that too, whether she was sober or not That is a history and a pattern, your protector of your children. I completely understand. Yeah. Before we had Jude, you have to decide what you want for your kid or how are we going to raise this child, you know, and we had some pretty hard and fast rules that we both immediately were like totally in agreeance with. I commend you for figuring that out together

and trusting in each other and the process of being vulnerable, having those conversations and making those boundaries. I think that's what it's all about. So I mean, kudos to both of you for being change makers and cycle breakers in that respect. What stands out to you most from those years? Honestly, just persevering, feeling like life kept shitting on us,

or challenging us, and just having to keep moving forward, while trying to maintain being like a good person at the same time, and not letting things get to you, I suppose. The holidays before Bobby's death. I hadn't spoken to him, but I loved my brother very much and I had sent my well wishes through Liz or Everett, knowing that they were in communication. I didn't know what to get him, and I went to Target or one of those sort of stores and at the holidays they always have those like

body wash gift sets, body wash or shampoo with aloofa or deodorant. I saw one of those and it felt like no matter where he was at he could use it in life. It felt like care. That's what I went with. I remember after the holidays my mom telling me that Bobby had opened it and was telling me that it meant a lot to him It was kind of like and all of branch had been extended and sadly he would die just a few weeks after that and I really regret not reaching out to him more than I can stomach to try to explain so yeah, I Really really regret that. After Ruby was born, I had really fallen in love with dressing the kids up

in the world's most adorable outfits and taking pictures of them. Pinterest and Instagram were still pretty new at this time. And I had started posting pictures of Ruby and her outfits and Jude and his outfits when I could get him to stand still enough to take photos. People were really responsive to them and it was really fun to be reigniting my interest in fashion and styling in this tiny adorable way. That gave me the idea to start the children's fashion blog

that I used to have. This was still peak blogging days and I was really enjoying it. And I saw that there was, nobody else was really doing that yet. I had zero budget, but I had some friends that helped me. I had a friend named Dara who helped me build my first website and friends that helped me, I had a friend named Dara, who helped me build my first website

and friends who encouraged me and me and my little iPhone would dress the kids up and take pictures on our way to go to the park or do whatever we were gonna do anyways that day. They also did a lot of posts that didn't feature the kids, posts that were just strictly fashion and didn't involve the children, simply showcasing different fashion collections and different ways to style high-end fashion looks for children, things like that.

It started doing really well and I started getting paid content and it was really nice because it was giving me the ability to help us pay our bills and we needed every cent we could get. Also, by doing this, it also gave me access to like get clothes for the kids that we would have never been able to afford otherwise, or we'd get tickets to things like Disney on ice. And so the kids would get to go to stuff that was really cool and fun that we never would have been able to afford for them to go to. It was a really fun job. It also helped me get back into writing and flex my creative muscles and really start to channel that pain and the struggle into creativity once again.

Even though I was talking a lot about kids, I would also post my own outfits, talk about body positivity and things like that. And so he kind of gave me a space to honor who I was. And I think that that's one of the harder parts of parenthood and motherhood for me that I struggled with during these years. I was really stressed the fuck out about stuff that didn't matter, really ultimately overall. But I think by focusing on that and trying to like make everything cute and fun and focusing my energy there, it also helped me avoid

talking about this dark and traumatic stuff and gave me the ability to focus on this adorable cute colorful fun stuff. I was more than happy to compartmentalize and not think about any of that other shit. So it was a lot easier too for me to pretend with Liz and Everett and try not to talk about the past and just focus on what was in front of us at the time. In general, there was a lot of compartmentalizing. I also don't want to over share information about the kids or Michael or our private life.

So it's like hard as I'm, that's why I sound so robotic at times because I'm thinking so hard about how I want to say something without saying too much. No, I think you've done a great job thus far. I know how you respect their relative anonymity. More now than I used to, for sure. Also the internet was different when we started blogging, right? And working in that industry and what people were willing to share. We have a lot more awareness in general as a society in the internet.

Ways we can keep our kids safer online. I've certainly become more protective of them and the information I share about them since the podcast has gotten to the place where it is. And now I'm like, I will do everything I can to protect them and I regret over sharing things about them. When they were younger, that honestly, we're not my place to share.

I have expressed that regret to them and they've been like, mom, don't be silly, we don't care, or that's fine. But now that I know more and I've learned more about children and how they can be victimized online, even just by information being shared and stuff, I do feel like. They're a responsibility.

Yeah, you learn and you adapt. Here is Tiffany and Michael's longtime family friend Jamie. How you would describe me as a person when we first started hanging out versus like I guess who I am today. We met through my husband Nick when was it 2009? Probably you had you after we met. I more of think

of Jude being freshly born as when we first started becoming close friends. I I brought a spinner and you made cupcakes and I was like this girl made the best cup cakes I've literally ever that I must be her best friend

immediately. I do remember those cupcakes being a huge chick because you talked about them for years. We held dude and then you and I talked on the porch for a while and we talked about our families on the porch and that's probably why I think of that night as when we first started with coming friends. After that, I feel like it was really easy for us to just talk to each other about family staff, whatever.

We'd complain about, you know, babies and husbands and all that stuff. When I think of those times, the early years, when our kids were little and we would do play dates and birthday party, like I missed those times, but I also feel like it was a great time. It was a great time. It's a completely different calm person now. I was so stressed to fuck out too. So thank you for a lot of of a lot of pressure on yourself. How would you describe to people the essence of Michael Reese?

First I will say this Nick knows that Michael is the best dad. I mentioned this to me mom Michael being the best dad one time when we had everybody over and she's like, oh, don't say that. Nick and Isaac are fantastic dads. And they said, yeah, they are, but Michael's the best dad. And she just kind of laughed and gave me a little knowing nod. Michael is the most considerate person I've ever met in my life. You and Michael have very joyful children. They act like they are very supportive children. You can tell when kids feel they's to be themselves and that they feel like they know

that they're like accepted in the space that they're in. They walk around and act like polite sweet people, but they do it in a way that they're like very comfortable to be around adults. You can tell that they have been taken care of. Like you can tell a kid has been supported and nurtured when they act like your kids act. Thank you.

That's really the only thing Michael and I honestly genuinely care about being good at. I don't remember much in the way of like the specific things that your mom said, but I definitely remember being around her probably, I don't know, eight times for different family things, birthday parties, baby showers, whatever. And I mostly just remember her, like,

I mean, you know my mom well. My mom is a little on the, on the like, cheap fucking beams and all of us constantly, you know. The most maternal, maternal. Especially during those times you and I were getting pregnant. There was a lot of excitement, new families. That was a super happy time. And I do remember the thing that I remember that sticks out the most in my head about your mom is your mom was not. She did not seem happy for you, which was sucked up. I remember thinking that at different events.

Like your mom should be having the biggest mile on her face ever watching her bake, you know, her grand babies be born, all these different things happening that are exciting in your life at that time. And I do remember there being like a lack of warps from her. Mm-hmm. That's so validating.

Thank you for sharing that. from her. Mm-hmm. That's so validating. Thank you for sharing that. The day that Bobby passed away, it was the evening time I had just purchased a pass. My first blog, her conference in 2012. It was a big expense to invest in myself and my business for the first time. I was really excited and I was waiting for Michael to get home. I was at work as usual. Everett called me and it was dinner time. He called me like a couple times, usually if any family member or friend called me if a couple times in a row I would assume it was like an emergency so I just remember grabbing the phone and going outside in the back and he told me that Bobby had been killed he told me

that he had been shot by the police it sounded so it just didn't seem real to me I couldn't really honestly comprehend it in the moment. Took me a minute. He told me that they were at home with the sheriff and Chaplin and they were on their way to their apartment and they would come down later, but they thought Tiffany should hear the news from me. So I just, I remember going inside and I don't really remember if I told anybody at work was going on other than that I had an emergency and I needed to leave right away and I wasn't sure if I was going to in the next day, which for somebody who works six or seven days a week,

they would know how serious it was if I said that. Before I went home, I called a friend to come over for support. We lived just a few minutes away from work, so I got home pretty quick. I do remember it being really, really hard to find the words, or just like the courage, guess to tell Tiffany just because I knew how devastated she would be and I just didn't want to be the one to say it to her. If that makes sense I just felt so horrible I didn't want to be the bearer bad news. I don't know it's hard to share that kind of news with anybody. I remember coming home in Tiffany

was like, where are you home? It's the middle of dinner and you're usually not home. I just remember telling her I needed to tell her some news. She thought I was playing with her teasing her about whatever, but got her to sit down. It's also important to say that, as much as I didn't want to be the bear of bad news, I didn't want it to be anybody else to be telling her that news at the same time, which is such a weird feeling. Like I wanted to be there for her, but also didn't want to be the one

who was breaking her at the same time. I could tell just by looking at him that something was wrong. I remember thinking like he looked sick and asking him what's going on, are you okay? I honestly can't remember exactly how he said it, but he said something along the lines of, I'm really sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but Bobby is dead. And I just didn't believe it. There was no planet on which that made any sense. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, and questioning him and making him say it to me again, and then not believing him, and again again the same.

And I don't know, scream crying? Um, shock, gutter-all, pain waves, mixed in with pure adrenaline and shock, and feeling like this must be some sort of nightmare or misunderstanding. I don't even think I thought to ask how it happened at first. I think at some point he told me there was an incident with the police and Bobby had been shot. I simply could not believe what was being told to me and it just made no sense. At some point, Michael told me that Liz and Everett and a police chaplain were on their way to come talk to me and try

to explain to me what they knew about the situation. The kids were thankfully already in bed and stayed asleep. While we waited, I couldn't sit still, so I got up and I started cleaning the house. I was definitely somebody at the time who always tried to present the perfect house. Cleanliness, when people would come over and I would put a lot of undue pressure on myself. When I heard people were coming over and being unable to sit still, trying to disassociate, I started cleaning the house. Michael was incredibly kind and supportive. He had said to me, hey, hey, I'll do that. I'll clean up. You don't need to worry about any of that stuff right now. And I was like, I just have to, I have to physically do something with myself. And so that's what I did. Just sob cleaning

just sob cleaning in horror and denial and shock. I remember a little bit later, Everett and Liz showing up, the sheriff and a chaplain. Their like his car was, we like found out that his car was somewhere else. I felt like we were finding out little details here and there, which was so frustrating. You want like a clear and concise story of what happened. There was no clear and concise story of what happened. Liz and Everett and the Chaplin arrived. We all hugged and cried. We all hugged and cried. They had had more time to process the news at that point.

I later found out that they had been notified, I believe, in the afternoon, early evening, and then Chaplin had come over there. And they had decided that every it would call Michael, and Michael would be the one to tell me, which I'm very thankful that he be the one to tell me, which I'm very thankful that he was the one to tell me. I don't know how to describe the deepest pain that you've ever felt in your life, but that's what it felt like, and I just felt instant guilt that I wasn't there for him in that moment. I felt like I had failed him, and I had failed everyone. And if I had that argument with him, or set boundaries with him,

he would have not been in that position to begin with. I didn't want it to be true. And they remember asking the chaplain what happened. And he said that Bobby had gone after one of the officer's guns. And I just remember being so confused. And then they were explaining that he was in LA and he had bought a car a week before a new car, a used car but new to him and that he was driving from Auburn to the state where his daughter lived because he wanted to see her for her birthday. His girlfriend and him had broken up and she had moved back

to the state where she was from and so Bobby had purchased this car a week before to make the trip out there for her birthday party. He was in LA area off the Parabalt exit and his car broke down and he was having some sort of mental health crisis. The cops arrived and what the chaplain had claimed was that the officers said he went after the gun and honestly at that time I couldn't even wrap my mind around any of that information. I don't think I was really able to comprehend the information that was even being told to me. I was just overcome. And there was nothing that I can do about it. Nothing. There was no undoing any of it. And that's the hardest part to come to terms with.

I would find out that there was a witness, and his story was very different from the one that the police chaplain had told me. I must have cried myself to sleep because I don't remember going to sleep, but I do remember. At some point waking up, it was like I had fallen asleep for a few hours and it was daybreak right before the sun was gonna come up at like four or something. And I remember going outside and googling Poppy's name and Los Angeles and then I stumbled across video from a new site and there was an interview with Rubin, the witness, and I press play on that video.

I don't have access to the exact video now, but we were able to find a similar interview with him that he did later. And his story has always been the same. Okay. And when they came, the sergeant came on the opposite side of the road and when he came by he asked me What are you doing? And I said well, there's a guy in the middle of the street. Didn't you get the call? Yes, kind of. And he looks back on the screen. And when he looks on the screen, he realized that I had made that client. So next thing I know, he's calling this project, I guess, and telling me he's got a 5150 here.

And he ain't even top 10 subject in the street. So next thing I know, here comes squad cars from every direction. Came out with a gun drawn, came up to him, picked him up, and shot him point blank. I said, you send him a bitch. And the guy that did it walked over to the other squad car next to me leaned up against it and I asked him why did you shoot him? He said he went from my gun. You're damn liar. You can go for your gun. I see the whole thing from right here and next thing I know that his partner came and he said hey partner you did it.

Good job. good job partner. Can you imagine that? Imagine somebody saying that after they murdered somebody. This season on something was wrong. It was like, coming to terms with the unimaginable. It was extremely difficult to get his body back. They were delaying it. He was like, wait, who are you affiliated with?

And I was like, well, Bobby's sister. He was like, I didn't even know he had a sister. Oh my God. Yeah, fuck. She was being so rude and batshit to her daughter at her daughter's baby shower that somebody else had to intervene and tell her she needed to leave. All right, so today is May 4th, 2021 and yesterday I got a copy of my father's appeal. He was like, I had lunch with his dad.

He literally was sitting there with me, got a phone call from the attorneys, and then just laughed, and that was the last time he saw him and talked to him and never heard from him again. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production. for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany

Rees. If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow something was wrong on Instagram. At something was wrong podcast. Our theme song was composed by Glad Rags. Check out their album, Wonder Under. Thank you so much. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today, or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts.

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