Something Was Wrong - S18 E8: [Audrey + Amy S. + Amy] There's Not a Single Human Immune to Being Manipulated

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

*Content Warning: fraud, still birth, infant loss, pregnancy loss, miscarriage, sexual assault, doula fraud, factitious disorder, false reporting, public mischief, grooming, scams. *Sources:Info on Pseudocyesis (sometimes also referred to as “hysterical pregnancy: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24255-pseudocyesis via Cleveland ClinicInfo on Factitious disorder (sometimes also referred to as “Munchausen syndrome”): https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/factitious-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356028 via Mayo Clinic Info on Fetishism: https://www.britannica.com/science/fetishism-psychology via Britannica The Pregnancy Was the Con: How One Woman Allegedly Tricked Countless Doulas Into Helping Deliver a Fake Baby, Cosmopolitan, by Sarah Treleaven. Published September 13th 2023: https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a44866427/kaitlyn-braun-doula-pregnancy-accused-fraud-harassment/Free + Confidential Resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources SWW Merch: merch.cameo.com/store/somethingwaswrong Follow Something Was Wrong on IG: instagram.com/somethingwaswrongpodcastFollow Tiffany Reese on IG: instagram.com/lookiebooArtwork by the amazing Sara Stewart: @GreaterThanOkay - Instagram.com/greaterthanokaySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening, Add Free, on Wondering Plus. I'm going deep into my wife's family history, digging up the cold case of her murdered great grandmother. And did I mention that I'm looking into whether the murderer was actually the beloved family patriarch? Binge all episodes of Ghost Story, Add Free, right now, on Wondering Plus. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences. It discusses topics that can be upsetting

and triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, child abuse, and murder. Content warnings for each episode are at the top of episode notes. And confidential and free resources for survivors can be found linked in our episode notes as well as on our website, somethingwaswrong.com slash resources. Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests on the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, something was wrong,

broken cycle media, or wondering. The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is any of the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment. Thank you so much for listening. You thinkin' on me, you don't know me well Head on, head on

It can't fall on me And I know anybody that's you, you don't Don't Don't My dual partner, she texted me back with the same concerns and was like, you've got to get out of there. You don't have to say anything. Just go, just get out as fast as you can. Protect yourself. So I got up and Caitlin heard me. I made some excuse and said that some things popped up at home and I have to go home right now. And I ran out of there. I don't think I've ever run out of a place so fast.

out of there. I don't think I've ever run out of a place so fast. She texted me afterwards. I'm sorry, did I do something wrong? And then she didn't text me after that. I didn't block her. I didn't need to block her from social media because I don't have social media accounts for my doula work. I don't have business cards, I don't have a website, I don't have an Instagram, there's no Audrey the doula Instagram for me. So she wasn't able to find me on social media like she had wanted. That was actually a conversation that we had had because she had tried to look for me on Instagram and couldn't find me. I messaged Shana right away. I was in such shock over what had happened, and I said I think you and I had the same experience with Caitlin Braun, and I messaged another doula who had also been posting online about this.

They connected me with other doulas who she had done this to, and I spent the night processing what had happened and sharing what it happened. That was when I learned that she was actually a social worker. She wasn't a social working student and that she had been living with her mom and that other doulas had been conned by her in person and the mother knew about it and the mother was there participating, all of the shocking information. And that was just the beginning. At the end was there participating, all of the shocking information. And that was just the beginning. At the end of that night,

I'm absolutely shook by what I had just gone through. I had no understanding of what I had just gone through and what I was about to go through because of it. There's two pieces to that shock. I went to sleep that night and I woke up the next morning. I couldn't believe this had happened to me. It really felt like nothing was real and I decided that I was definitely going to contact the Brantford police. Because of things that have happened to me before, Caitlin, I was immediately

concerned that Caitlin had filmed me, that there was a camera set up, this was being filmed or live streamed or somehow put online without my permission. I immediately spoke to the police because I wanted to give a statement as fresh as possible. I drove two hours to Brandford and I spent an evening there giving a statement to the detective that was in charge of her case. Again, because of duelists who came before me, they had already been at the police insisting that an investigation be opened. The officer took my statement and then said that they probably had enough to move forward with charges against her, and that

he couldn't guarantee what would happen, but he said something would happen. He tried to reassure me that they were doing everything they could to stop her from victimizing more people. I spent the first couple of days after it had happened, connecting with other do-lays that it had happened to to putting the pieces together as to who she was. I told a few people that were close to me when it happened. I was trying to connect with my doula partner, trying to debrief with her and I eventually

stopped messaging her because the thought had occurred to me that maybe she was somehow a part of it. Here's Dula Amy S. That night eat Audrey had message the Dula that had posted in the Facebook girl. They added her to this Facebook chat. Another Dula sent me a message and they were like, oh my god Amy I'm so sorry I can't believe that she got you. So they added me to the Facebook chat. Probably for like an hour, I was engaging in this conversation and sending messages and then it was like one-thirty in the morning when Audrey had sent me that text, I was already in bed and I just remember it rolling over and looking at my husband being like, this was all fucking fake. This whole thing, this whole person. None of this was real and he was just like, what? What was your husband's response? He was like, I don't understand.

Why would somebody do that? What do you mean it's not real? I would tell him things, you know, as things were happening after the situation with other duels, he was like, wow, okay, it was really weird. I think his response was very similar to most strangers. So I looked at these conversations that were happening and then I was just like I need to close my eyes. I just need to disassociate from this whole situation. I'd need a minute without 50 people coming at me with other things about this person in the situation the next morning I got up and I went to work and I emailed my therapist who I'd been working with for a year and a half at this point in time and I was just like you know we have an appointment on Saturday

if you have anything sooner I'd really appreciate like everything's fine I'm okay there's just this really messed up situation I feel like I need to talk about it when I had talked to my therapist on that Wednesday So a couple days after all of this had happened. I explained the situation and my experience with Caitlin was nowhere near as traumatic as Other people's experiences a lot of my trauma with the situation is more seeing other duals being hurt bringing another dual in and having that guilt other dualis being hurt, bringing another dualit in and having that guilt, having somebody else traumatized by a Caitlin. That's where a lot of my trauma and my grief with the whole situation is. So I was just pissed off. I was angry. My therapist in that meeting was just like, all I hear from you is that you want to protect people. You want to protect other duals when all of this happened. One of the very first phone calls that I made was to the College of Social Workers to report her. I actually went to them

versus a police because I figured that at least they would be able to not let her continue working with vulnerable people. And it sounds like people had already been working with the police since January. So the police were already aware of the situation. And the College of Social Work was as well because people had been complaining for months. I asked those questions, is there an investigation going? And of course they can't tell you that. She still listed as a registered social worker. They're like, we updated it monthly, keep your eye out, check back monthly. It was not like they can decide to take someone off. They couldn't tell me that they were doing an investigation, but it was being framed to me like they were aware of the situation, and they were doing what they could within the institution and the policies and the rules

that they had to follow, which at the time was infuriating, and still is when you think about how long it would take for something to happen. That's a greater conversation when you talk about institutions. Even removing her and having her not registered, there's a lot of social workers. From my understanding what people told me is you can still be a social worker without being registered, but obviously if she has a criminal record that's something else. I didn't have any contact or communication with Kielensmom at all. When Kielen was in labor, having interactions with me supporting her, she had told me her mom was

supportive, she went around to have some abortion. They did bring it up when she was struggling. At one point she said, they really want my mom and I was like, maybe your mom would change her mind and she would want to be here with you. Like why don't we call her and it was an idiot like we cannot call my mom. Then at the same time you hear stories

from the other duels who spent four or five days in Caitlin's home and Caitlin's mom. Who's aware that Caitlin was not actually pregnant, but baking that she was pregnant and pretending to be in labor. There was a car seat in the house. There were baby items in the house. She did not know about this.

To just think about the fact that this person allowed this to happen to people, she allowed her daughter to intentionally cause trauma and harm to other human beings for no reason is disgusting. I have children myself and I cannot even imagine doing that. If my kids do something wrong or they cause harm to somebody. I call them out. I make them apologize. How does a 24 year old woman, her mother, not even think about the impact that they're having on these people's lives? The fact that her mother has not been held accountable at all blows my mind. And there was another doula that spent five days at her home after this Airbnb

incident with us. Her mom, Neil, there was one doula. She was like a mentor to a couple of the other doulas that were involved. She spoke to her mom. She spoke to her psychiatrist. There were people that were very well aware of this situation and what was happening nine months before she got arrested. Here's Dula Audrey. I am so grateful for the other Dulas who came before me, who figured it out, who were trying to help, because I don't think I would have processed my trauma the same way.

It would have taken me a lot longer. I was very paranoid for about the first week afterwards. Luckily I was able to find a therapist almost immediately after I had encountered Capron because of something that had happened to me in January. I had already been allowed funding through police victim services for a therapist. That therapist, she didn't mean to answer the phone because she had thought that I was somebody else calling and that therapist said, I can't speak on the phone right now

because my daughter is in labor and I immediately went bananas because I thought, oh my God, it just felt like the whole world was somehow in on this con. I thought they were all trying to lure me in and somehow this therapist was too. She was not, actually, she's very lovely lady and it just so happened that her daughter was in labor

and she accidentally answered the phone that day. The days and months afterwards were their own kind of trauma. I wouldn't learn almost every day some new thing about Kaitlyn. Here's Kaitlyn's ex-girlfriend, Amy W. It's 22nd of February. I was not being. I have a bad habit of leaving my voice mail full. So no one can leave a voice mail. So then I got a text from the detective basically saying hi, this message is for Amy, my name

is, and then she tells me her name. With the brand for police, I need to speak with you. She's giving me her phone number, and she's an unable to leave you a voice mail. My initial thought was Caitlin. I was like, is she okay? Did she pass away? That literally was my first thought. So I was like, oh my God, I feel even worse

of a person if I left her there. And something happened to her. I called back. And that is when I got the worst news. She basically said that, Caitlin went into the police station and said, I want to put it on the record. I don't want to press charges,

but a sexually assaulted me twice on two days. On the day that she asked me to be a girlfriend of February and two days prior when I haven't seen her, she ended up going back to the police and saying, well, actually, it never happened a second time, it happened the first time. I am sitting there completely shocked. I don't even know how to respond to this. I didn't even know what to say. I was so shocked. Am I hearing this person right? Hearing I'm thinking that something bad happened to the person that I was supposedly

dating and now this is what's going on. They didn't tell me anything which is why I was like, what did I allegedly do to make her think that I did this. We had only once and then the only other contact we had had was when I was with the july and I was rubbing her hair and touching her arm or her hand trying to be supportive, but that's the only physical time I ever had with her. Even when we slept in the same bed that night, we were back to back. We weren't even close at all, but the detective basically was saying we don't believe that that's what happened because this has happened before. They were like, we want to open a case of public mission against her for

wasting public resources and wasting our time basically not telling the truth about you. So I was under the impression that she was being investigated for this, but I had to wait because she went and got a kid done. So I had to wait for those results. At first I was stunned and then Ben called my mom first and get a hold of her. So I called my other friend and I was bald, like I was in tears. They were very supportive, but also in shock and disturbed. I was really beside myself. I had to go into the police station twice to give them evidence. I had one of my friends come with me to the police station to give my statement and we found

out that she could have been a witness because I was exchanging text messages with her during the time we were in the Airbnb. So she could have been a witness to it. They wanted my phone. They asked Caitlin, do you have messages from Amy? And she said she deleted everything. She told the police officer, I don't have anything from her. So luckily I had text messages from us on my phone. I had to advocate for myself to the police. I was like, why aren't you adding my charge on to her because she still continued to call me and they kept saying, what were waiting for the kit results?

Over time, I kept checking in on the case. I was able to have access to victim services to get follow-ups on the case. The next day, I got a call saying, the church has been laid to her. We're going to go ahead and move forward with this case. The next day I got a call saying the church has been laid to her. We're gonna go ahead and move forward with this case. I was like I'm glad that they finally did it. That happened in March. Here's Audrey. My boss was kind enough to let us use the agency space because it's the studio that they use. She was kind enough to let us use a space so that the duelist in my area could meet in person. I actually arranged a meeting and met a few of them in person. I'm so glad that I could do that. I know that people go through

fraud, they go through sexual assault, and they don't get to have the same connections that I got to have immediately after. I'm so grateful that that even happened. I really made my focus on connecting with people, but it took over my life because my life became all about protecting other new lives and other care workers from this ever happening to them. I put out posts, I kept an ear to the ground, I did actually manage to stop to brand new duolies in the London area from doing in-person support with her. I remember messaging them back and forth. I found something on a dula forum that said something along the lines of, I'm a brand new doula, I've just had this client contact me who is having a stillbirth,

what resources are there available, I'm immediately private message them and said, is this person's name Caitlin Brown? And I managed to intervene in that situation, at least save one person from going through what I had just gone through. That high alert that I was on for weeks afterwards is its own sort of trauma because it's not as if it happened and then I gave my police report and then she was arrested. I had personal knowledge that she was out there trying to find other doulas to scam and she did manage to scam at least two more that I know of. That was heartbreaking. Every time that that happened, every time we added a new person to the group,

as per counting how many people that she had done this to, that was so horrible. I honestly don't know how I got through all of that, and still managed to be a mother, still managed to be going to college. It still seems so unreal to me now. Did that actually happen? Yeah, that actually happened. That's real life. Something was wrong, tell stories about the behavioral red flags that warn us danger lurks. MinipotCoscoStory asks what happens when red flags go unnoticed for a century?

Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what I've always believed. Sure, odd things happen in my childhood bedroom, but ultimately, I shrubbed it all off. That is, until a couple of years ago, when I discovered that every subsequent occupant of that house is convinced they've experienced something inexplicable too, including the most recent inhabitant who says she was visited at night by the ghost of a faceless woman. It just so happens that the alleged ghost haunted my childhood room might just be my wife's great grandmother. It was murdered in the house next door by two gunshots to the face. Ghost Story,

a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back to haunt us. Follow Go Story on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus. We were quite convinced. When I say we, I'm referring to the group of doulas that she victimized and abused. A lot of us were concerned that her behavior would escalate to kidnapping someone's

baby. Before she was arrested, when we found out that she had been getting various nanny jobs and had even advertised herself on some nanny website, trying to find work as a nanny specifically newborns. That was terrifying. She had ads under her name, Caitlin Braun, her real name was even using a fake one. It's a website where parents go to search for a nanny. She had ads up there that she had a degree in social work, but most of her experience

was with children, and that she was looking to find a job as a nanny to a newborn, because she felt like that was her area of expertise. She studied this stuff. In fact, she got honors in her social work degree, the College of Social Workers of Ontario. You can look people up, and that was how I found out that she achieved honors. So the fact that she's a social worker worker and she did so well in that program, she absolutely studied how to groom people. So when she was messaging me,

saying, oh, I might be naked when you come in or discussing with me, how many naked bodies I've seen in my profession. She was grooming me and I have no idea. She seemed to have a dark sense of humor and I thought at the time that that was just a coping mechanism. But the way that she was trying to get me to laugh with her, I thought she was trying to build trust between us. I do believe that her motivation is sexual based on my experiences in what I saw and heard from her. I also believe that she gained something like entertainment from conning people. Maybe that's the fictitious disorder. I don't have a full understanding of it that way. I really feel like it's a layered motivation at this point. I do believe that she gained some sort of self-esteem

from conning people. Like, I'm so good at lying to people and they believe me. I'll never fully understand her motivations. And I think I've come to terms with that. But first, as I was telling a story, I think I touched really hard on the trauma of not being able to understand why a person would do something like that. But I've come to terms with that since then, I may never find out, I may never fully understand.

And you know what, maybe that's okay, because maybe I won't understand, because I'm not a sociopath, and I don't think like that. I can only guess at her motivations. Maybe that's a good thing. I think it's a good reminder that it doesn't really matter what motivated her, what matters is the harm that was caused and the impact that it made on so so many people. Here's Dula, Amy S. Every day, there were just more Dula

as being added to this group. She was just picking up steam and it was like, she would end with one Dula and she was again working with another one. What really pissed me off was one of the Dula's local to me who had actually suffered her own loss recently within the six months. Caitlin had targeted her and hurt her and when I saw her get added to the screw, I just got pissed off. My therapist was actually the one that suggested that I make a video. I sat down at my kitchen table and I just talked for like seven minutes. I didn't even know that you could make TikTok videos that long. I didn't mean Caitlin. I said, this is a situation that's happening. Duel is are being targeted. If you think that this person has reached out to you,

please feel free to send me a message. I will tell you who it is or reach out to another duel that you trust and see if they've had experience with this person. I posted that on the Thursday, just on TikTok, because I didn't know how to take a seven-minute video posted to Instagram, because I'm not tech savvy. So it was the next day on the Friday. I figured out how to cut the video until sections and post it to Instagram and Facebook. My video was the first one posted, and within an hour of posting it to Instagram, I had... I do love reach out to me asking if I could call her, because she thinks that she's with this person right now. She didn't say Caitlin because I didn't say Caitlin's name. She didn't know who it was. I was like, we're walking on a mall where the Starbucks, Caitlin got a call from the

brand for police and they were like, your names come up in an investigation and we need you to come in on Monday. And I Caitlin had made a comment to her. Like, that's really weird. My name came up in an investigation. But this doula, I think she had actually seen the video the day before, like on the Thursday maybe, but didn't put it together until she was in the situation. And I'm like her name is Caitlin Brown and she's like, oh my god, this person's name is Caitlin Brown. I send her a picture of what Caitlin looks like and she instantly just starts

bawling her eyes out. She's in over her head and she's like, Amy, I drove her here. She doesn't have a ride like, what do I do when she was sitting in her car crying and I said, you leave and she's like, well, her bag is here. Her bag is in her car crying and I said, you leave and she's like, what her bag is here? Her bag is in my car. Except you don't owe her anything. Look at what she has done to you. Like, guarantee you if you look in her bag. All you're going to find is a change of clothes.

None of the items she's told you she has are in there. And that was true. She's like, where do I go? And I was like, drive to the nearest police station. You can give them her stuff. You can tell them what's happening. I didn't think this she would ever get arrested. Or we put in jail or anything like that. When I posted the TikTok video, I honestly just wanted to protect Ula. So that was the only reason they did it. As the stool is driving

to the police station, I actually three-way called in the police officer that was running the case. And this was my very first time talking to him or the police about the situation at all. I said this is ridiculous as bullshit. She's literally driving away from her at this moment like it is clearly still happening. I was angry. I got off the through-way call and let them talk so she could tell him what was going on. I just sat there the thinking about if I hadn't posted that video, who knows what could have happened with this doula. Something that we had been able to do helps the mediaeel. Instantly, the other doula started going on TikTok, sharing their stories, and it blew up. It went viral.

Everybody was like, tell us these stories, like I'm down this rabbit hole. I never really shared my story of my experience with Caitlin on TikTok. The majority of my videos were just protecting people. A lot of the do-lis who were sharing their stories were getting messages from people being like like you believe you would do this. Why wouldn't we give a video back being like if you're not involved in this situation, you don't get a say. If you're her friend or your family and you want to stick up for her do it somewhere else because as duels as individuals that have been impacted by her we don't care to hear it. So I kept my TikTok videos to protecting the duels. I had so many people reach out. I had family members of hers reach out

that weren't in contact with her. Talking about how she's always been like this. I spoke to an aunt on her dad's side. I'm sure if you've chatted with other people that you've heard the allegations that she accused her father of sexually assaulting her. Her dad has passed away. She had accused him while he was going through Glimmo. Just horrible, awful, awful things. This aunt confirmed all of the things to me. The duelist we were worried that she was gonna try to flee Ontario and go to East because she told one of the duelist that her grandma lived out on the East Coast

and she was gonna go and stay with her. This aunt, I had told her this because they live out on the East Coast and she was like, absolutely not. Another would never let her stay here with her. That's not gonna happen. People that she had worked with, parents of kids that she'd accused of doing awful things to her, the mom of the accused boy that Kielin had done something to her. It was obviously fake. They couldn't find anything on videos and all of those things, but just imagine an 11-year-old boy having a 24-year-old woman accuse him of doing these horrible things. It's just so sickening.

And then as an indigenous person, to see that she's targeting indigenous people, we've read boils, and I think about it. She just really hurt so many innocent people. I started getting all of these messages from people being like, she is who you're saying that she is. I think a parent had reached out to us that she saw her on a nanny site, and then whoever the duel was that they had reached out to ask for the screenshot. We were just like email them, let them know what's going on and they got back to the duel.

Really, really fast. They were like, thank you so much. We've deactivated her account. You really appreciate you bringing this forward. So people were taking it seriously. I had so many family members, so many friends, old co-workers, all of these people came to me and trauma dumped their stories on me. It was a little bit difficult, not gonna lie. Having people trauma down when you're going through this experience

yourself is a lot. So the amount of support that all the jewels were getting outweighed the negative a lot. Most of the negatives were people being like, well why didn't you check the heart rate or why didn't you check her cervix. So it was people just really not even understanding who and what a doula is or what they do. I've definitely heard of birth fetishes. I've definitely over the years received many messages. They're typically pretty easy to spot when people started talking about the Keelin-Bron situation and it was getting associated with

birth fetishes. People are like, let's happen to me or other duels. Or like, I didn't fall for that. A lot of the criticism that we got was from other birth workers to be completely honest, which is extremely disheartening, especially when they don't know the entirety of the situation. They don't know specifics to each person's experience. I still stand by posting the videos, and I don't regret posting the videos, because I know that me being vocal and advocating for the Do-look community and sharing my voice. Stopped this to an extent. Somebody might have had an experience with her and went on living their life and they were fine until they saw these videos

and realized what had happened to them and now they have trauma from it. There's still a lot of guilt with that. She was arrested on the Monday and we know over the weekend that she was still reaching out to dolas. We had dolas messaging us because they'd seen the videos and we know over the weekend that she was still reaching out to dolas. We had dolas messaging us because they'd seen the videos and they knew what was going

on and they're like, hey, she just reached out to me. Hey, I just got a message from her. It was crazy. And then all of a sudden, the Monday, she's been arrested and we're like, what? It was shock more than anything. I didn't expect that she would get arrested or charged, let alone that there would be an issue in cosmopolitan about it that we would be on the news that you could google her name or our name and we would pop up that we would be talking on podcasts

about this terrible awful traumatic situation that we've been in. None of those things were on any of our minds when we chose to speak up and stop her. When you think about sharing traumatic experiences so often people aren't believed and were gaslit and that had happened to so many doules the year before when people were going to the police and all of this was happening. And that was the reason that I didn't go to them at the beginning. What could I possibly share the police that would be any different? That was why I took to social media.

The power of social media just blows my mind. I'm still shocked. She's been in jail since she was arrested. That, to me, is mind-blowing. I thought that she would have been in there for a day or two maybe a week. Here's Dula Audrey. I don't know the details of how they arrested her exactly or what happened that way, but I knew the day that it had happened. I was at school. I'm training to be a welder right now. So I was in my school welding booth and I feel the buzz of my phone

and I looked at it and there's news of her having been arrested. It is hitting the news cycles and I was just in tears because of the relief that I was feeling. I knew it wasn't over over, but it was something. I think the gravity of having had a whole month of my life hijacked by this obsession with trying to stop her, trying to warn people, trying to tell them about this danger, and still trying to process what had happened to me at the same time. It hit me all at once. I'm standing there in this welding booth with my welding helmet up and crying into a anchor chip. It was a relief, and it was also grieving at the same time. That was when I was able to start grieving what had happened

to me. I'm so lucky that I got to do that so quickly after this incident happened. Without having known other victims, without them having done the same work trying to protect other dolas, I would have just been sitting at home wondering what the hell happened to me and trying to process that by myself. I can't imagine having to have to do that by myself. I can't imagine having to have to do that by myself. I hope that she will see some real jail time. There's no precedent for this. This story is so wild. What's happened is so wild. There's nothing else really to compare it to. And I think that our court system is probably going to take a mental health stance on it. They're likely to push her to get some help. She'd probably be put on probation and watched closely for a while for as long as they can. But the thing is, if a man

were looering PSWs into Airbnb's to do personal care on them because They wanted to hire private PSWs. That is the thing that happens and then let's say this person didn't have cancer or Wasn't sick and they just Manipulated that PSW into being sexually assaulted. I think that the police would have jumped on that a lot harder and a lot faster. Here's Caitlin's ex-girlfriend Amy W. Because I wasn't working. I was doing interviews. I was on an interview for most of the day and then I was on my way to leave and my friend had snabbed how they need me. She saw a Reddit page and she saw TikToks so she was sending me and I was in the car

having a panic attack. Like, what the hell is happening? And that's what I started to see the videos. And immediately I just felt so many emotions. I was six months stomached. I was like, I need to get home. I feel like I'm gonna mess out. I was so distraught.

And then I came home. I went down the rabbit hole. I watched all the videos. I can't remember the exact date that I saw the videos, but it had to have been on or on March 14th because I believe that's when the video started coming out. And then I got in contact with the doula that I was with. When we first initially talked, she seemed a little hesitant to talk to me. She seemed like she didn't really want to get into it. I ended up talking to a different doula, and she said, there's a group. They were group chatting, and then she reached out again, and she's like, I thought you were involved too. We both said, I thought you were part of it,

because it just seems so calculated in the grand scheme of things. We realized, no, you're not involved. In a way, it was kind of like, we were both in it going through it. That's kind of when I decided to share my story on TikTok. It's a text that I saw the video and she said, without saying that you can't pose because there's a band, but I posted it before the band. But then she said without saying that you can't pose because there's a band but I posted it before the band but then she said there is a band in place so we need to take it down and you're still being investigated and then I took it down. I haven't really been on social media about it since. I know some people have said I feel bad about how she must be feeling in jail.

I also felt guilty after because when I was listening to the videos on TikTok, I kind of pieced together what happened after I left, and she put the next person through hell and treated them like garbage essentially and had them so convinced of her story. She could keep up with her lies. It was like a mind-smart for her like a game or something. I tried to read some articles about what her friends from Ulzer are saying. It's almost sociopathic, psychopathic type behavior. Here's Audrey. After the TikToks came out and after the news broke

there were more doulars who came out and after the news broke, there were more doulas who came out and said, I had strange interactions with this person. This sounds like what I went through in November, and then we could piece together some kind of a timeline. What's really disturbing is that I found out that she had been contacting doulas while she was still actively calling me, while I was still there.ning me while I was still there. That's why she was on her phone. She was planning her next con.

I was speaking with the other doolas who had gone through this, which was immensely helpful because I can't imagine having to process this without them or having to start from scratch like some of them did. Like, Shana's story, it really gets me. And of all the people who had the TikToks blow up, I'm so glad it was hers. She's so deserved that after months and months of trying to process what had happened to her after hearing Dula after Dula being victimized again by the same person who victimized her. I wasn't gonna invest all my time in this case and I was just gonna leave it alone because I knew that she had a lot of charges against her. So I would just continue on about my life,

and then I would check into the victim services here there. When I was living in Ontario, they were concerned that she would try and find me or something. I go to a job interview in April, and then I moved to the end of May. So I completely changed my life up and left. I told the detective, I'm leaving. She said, okay, we'll let me know your number if it changes or whatever. So I did, I reached out a few times, no response, and then I went to

email her and it said, the detective is not available until September 24. So I was like, well, then who am I supposed to talk to about this? I was in contact with victim services and they were giving me updates about the case. I called the police station and ran for it and I was like, what's going on? I haven't got an update about anything. And they're like, well, your case has been closed. They didn't even bother to tell me anything, which, fine, I don't know how the police system works but it just kind of felt like why are you calling? I don't think I'm gonna be able to have any more access because I don't know if they're aware that my case is dropped. Because they classified me as the victim of her I was

able to have access to those court dates I I could watch it online, but I just chose not to because it was always pushed back. Do you mind telling me to your knowledge when the last time she was seen before a judge? I think it was September 5th or 6th. I hope she does get maximum penalty, but it hasn't been discussed with me how many years that'll look like I am hoping that she's just like, you know, just care for putting in some kind of program. She's a danger to the public. The reason why I felt like I wanted to share my story was because I feel like it's a part of my healing journey. I still have PTSD episodes. It doesn't happen

so frequently, but it happens out of nowhere. So I definitely feel like I'm not over it, 100%. I think most shocking is realizing that it was all a lie and trying to wrap my head around that often someone made something up so devastating, you question your morals, you question your beliefs and who you are. And I think that was the hardest part. I was so hard on myself and I felt so guilty. And this was all a lie. It just makes you question yourself completely. And I think even when I was accused of something I didn't do, it was like a ricochet effect, it just won bad thing after another.

It's scary to think that this is someone that I thought that I could trust because I did develop some type of feelings for this person. I think that's what was the scary part is because I don't get too involved. I'm kind of a close-up person. Physical touch is not my love language. I'm very like don't touch me. I'm not that kind of person. I don't insert myself on people. That was the shock part because I've been through trauma. I've been through stuff like that. To be accused of something that's so disgusting and out of character it was awful. I don't even know how someone

can say that about someone. So the fact that I finally opened up to someone and it turned out to be a monster, you kind of question yourself and who you are as a person again. It's devastating, honestly. I replay every scenario where I'm like that was a red flag, that was a red flag, but again, you you wanna believe that someone is being honest with you, especially in that kind of situation. I really appreciate you being willing to share your story and to speak out, especially given the nuances

of what you're sharing here. What do you hope that listeners will gain by hearing your story and the other victims of Caitlin's stories? You don't realize it could happen to you. There's a lot of regret I wish I never met this person. I know it's not my fault because I know that I tried to see the best in her, but at the same time she had everyone fooled. Even my friends were starting to be like, you should continue to help her. You don't know what she's going through right now. I think trust your guy is what I've learned.

And ask questions. That's something that I honestly, which I did is ask way more questions than I could have made me found more gaps in her story. What I've taken away from that is, if someone's gonna open up their life to you, you have a right to ask some questions. I think another thing she was to spread awareness about online dating and just to be careful about

who you trust and how much you let people know about who you are because you never know who you're talking to. I learned a lot about myself through this situation and going forward. It's kind of made a heart for me to trust people, but at the same time, it's taught me how to trust my guy and listen to the signs. Thank you again so so much for all of your time and energy. I'm incredibly sorry for everything that you experienced. And I am so, so glad that the police were on your side and were able to see through the accusations and see the whole picture when this took place. Thank you. Here's Audrey.

I'm hoping that anyone listening will remember that human beings aren't lie detectors. I am not unfamiliar with con men. I come from a family of criminals. You know, I love my family. I should profess that. I love my family. But I'm also the first person in my immediate family who graduated high school and who has not been charged with a grunt.

I have not been to jail. My parents can't say the same. My siblings can't say the same. My siblings can't say the same. So I am very familiar. I grew up in a world where that was normal. They weren't necessarily conning people like Caitlin is in that kind of harmful way. But I am not immune to the fact that illegal things happen. So the idea of having been conned so deeply, knowing what I know, having the experiences in life that I have experienced, it really taught me, in particular, that there is not a single human being who is immune to being manipulated.

Human beings are also so creative and so imaginative. We can't tell when a person is lying to us. There's no body language analyst out there that is ever 100% on figuring out when someone's lying. What I want people to take away is that if you have been through some kind of fraud, if someone has manipulated you into believing something ridiculous, you're not alone. And my story might be particularly wild in that regard, but it happens. It happens in an everyday sort of way. We hear about seniors being scammed through phone calls. You think, who would do that, right? Huh? Everybody is just a little bit vulnerable to being scammed like that.

I don't know what's scary to think about, but it does happen. It can happen. I'm so grateful and comforted to hear the way the dualists have been able to come together and support one another and have become your own community and support system, which again really speaks to the empathetic people that Caitlin targeted, the types of people that she targeted were highly empathetic people for a reason. And it's really sad to think that somebody used this gift for this kind of purpose is, I don't know, it just adds another layer of the manipulation

Here's doula Amy S I've had this conversation so many times. I've gone through an immense amount of trauma But I'm not out here hurting other people and causing other people trauma And if I did I would be held accountable. And I think for so long, she wasn't, but she's not an idiot. She went to school. She got a degree. She was working as a registered social worker. She worked within the system.

She knew how to play the system. She knew what to say and what to do and what to not say and what not to do. And of course there is going to be some mental health aspect to all of this, but the majority of people that are alive have some kind of mental health issue that they're working through that doesn't excuse them from anything. And it's not an excuse in this situation a lot of people are like she's mentally ill She has mental health issues of course she does, but that's not the end. I'll be all of this whole situation There's so much more to it. I've been asked does her serving jail time seem like justice to you And I struggle with answering that because I don't necessarily think that her being in a prison cell

does anything. The duel is the friends, the family members, the people that have been impacted, that she's traumatized. Her being in jail doesn't really do anything for us. Like, yes, we don't have to worry about her doing it to other people, but at the same time, they can't keep her there forever. So, like, what happens when she gets out? My mind goes when I think about the situation, and that's part of the reason why I continue to speak up about it, so that people are still hearing about it. So when she does get out, that hopefully things will be different. There are so many other dualist that have stories. We've all had these conversations that most people will never know. They won't get brought up on any kind of criminal thing because they won't tell the police about it. And that's their right. They don't need to.

The majority of people didn't go to police about this. They haven't shared their stories with the public. It's a very small group of us. Let's spoke out. The reason that I spoke out was because I didn't want anyone else to get hurt. I never in my wildest imagination would have thought anything that's happened in the last six, seven months would happen. I just honestly hope that people have compassion and understanding for people in general when they're going through a situation that you may not have been through yourself or that you may not understand, and that people take the time to educate themselves and ask thoughtful questions when they are presented with something like that. Like the people who were respectful in asking questions when all of this was happening versus the

people that were victim blaming us or gaslighting our experiences. This is not something anybody was trained for or taught in any kind of do-it training or mentoring experiences is really new and charted territory. There was a huge divide in the do-it community because of this. Even within the group of do-os that have been impacted by Caitlin, we've had our own issues about speaking out, sharing stories, not sharing stories. It's not one-sided, not everybody agrees, and I don't think that we ever all will agree or be on the same page. We all just need to respect each other and find what works for us, and again, that's why

the majority of the dualist stories won't be out there. People have chosen to keep them to themselves, and that they're right when we hold space for that and we know their stories but we're not going to share them because they're not our stories to talk about. But the terrible awful stories that people have heard, there's worse stories, there's worse things that Keylin said that chances are nobody will ever know about them. are nobody will ever know about them. So many dolas will continue to move through the trauma and the grief and that looks different for every single one of us and there's no timeline on dealing with those things or what that looks like for us. Next time on something was wrong. She's getting in the Uber and she says, oh by the way there's different car and I'm like,

that's a weird thing. So now I'm an extra alert. So at 617 I said, are you okay? No response. At 626 I started to say, I said, I'm worried. Are you okay? Please text me back. We're just at the barn.

We're drinking and the ladies are sitting there. Like, what was your friend? I got this text, I'm getting a little worried. Now all the women are like, oh, oh, you need something's wrong. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Rees.

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