Something Was Wrong - S19 E5: (5/5) [Amy] Overcomer

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

*Content Warning: stalking, cyber stalking, terrorism, harassment, bigotry, racism, suicidal ideation, torture, psychological violence, emotional abuse, doxxing, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. *Sources: FBI Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3): https://www.ic3.gov/ SWW S19 Artwork by the amazing Sara Stewart: Instagram.com/greaterthanokay*Resources: Stalking Prevention, Awareness, Statistics & Resource Center (SPARC): https://www.stalkingawareness.org/ Free + Confidential Resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources Something Was Wrong: somethingwaswrong.com Tiffany Reese: tiffanyreese.me Something Was Wrong on IG: instagram.com/somethingwaswrongpodcastTiffany Reese on IG: instagram.com/lookiebooSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or Wondery. The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment.

Thank you so much for listening. You don't know anybody until you talk to someone. Someone He was ultimately sentenced to the maximum sentence that the state of Colorado allows which included time served He got four years with time served plus two years of parole I never saw my detective who was assigned to my case come to find out He was actually at the sentencing and I did not know it until it was all over. There was just one guy in there with my family at the end of it because we were the last hearing of the day and he came up after I just broke down. I wrote thank you notes to everyone,

the victim advocate, the judge, my prosecutor, the detective. I called the special agent I talked to at the FBI and told him how everything ended. I was so grateful for everybody. He was sentenced in September of 2022, and he was up for parole in May of 2023. He had been in jail for a year and a half. The parole hearing, the whole goal

is he wants to get out of jail early, and the judge is assessing if he's rehabilitated and can function in society. I just saw this man six months prior in person, and that had a huge emotional toll. But now to hear that he's up for parole, that's just terrifying and disturbing. Leading up to the parole hearing,

I don't know what to expect. I'm really relying on the victim advocate in their office to guide me, and so I know what to expect. I'm in the victim notification system. They have to notify me it's coming up. They have to give me the opportunity to provide a victim impact statement

for that parole hearing. I could attend the hearing, but others couldn't. And I don't remember the rationale as to why. Ahead of the parole hearing, all of the prior victims who had provided statements did so again, which I'm very grateful for. It's not a fun process to go through, as you can imagine.

Having to put another victim impact statement together, it's very traumatizing and triggering, not only for me, but I'm sure for the others who did it as well. Just when you think everything's put to rest, there's something else. I have to go through this again. This guy is guilty. He pled guilty. He's in jail. Now you have to disturb my peace again. This guy is guilty. He pled guilty. He's in jail. Now you have to disturb my peace and the peace of others.

I went into it with high anxiety and dread. I attended that hearing this last May. It was online. He did not know I was in the room. I knew that I had to attend it alone. I was sitting in my kitchen. The victim advocate called me first and we got on the phone and they loop in

the committee parole board chair. She explains what happened. So we're gonna enter the room. Morrison doesn't know I'm there. During the hearing, my palms were sweating. I'm trying to take notes because when you're in that moment, it's traumatic. You think you're gonna remember everything,

but you don't. And in previous hearings, I had had my family there with me, the very least one of my parents, oftentimes both, and then my sister. Not to have anybody there by my side for this was different and a first for me in this entire experience. It doesn't mean I'm not strong enough to deal with it, but I didn't want to miss anything

that was being said. And I'm not sure what to anticipate going into this. For the Colorado Board of Parole, today's date is May 9th, 2023. And I'm speaking with Morrison, my video for parole application hearing. All right. So I show you have a 2021 stalking case of Denver on your mitt, your parole eligibility date currently sits at July 13th of 23. And your MRD or your mandatory release date currently sits at July 13th of 25. And

you'll have a two year parole tail. I show you arrived in 2022. This case, it seems, starts back several years according to the police report. So tell me a little bit about what was going on for you in the community prior. I've been living the life of an apartment basically in my parents home. They were in a retirement community in New Jersey and I had been living with them, my entire life outside of the time I spent in college and law school. I graduated from law school in 2007. That was basically my life when I returned from Michigan to South Carolina in January

2008. We moved to New Jersey from South Carolina in 2010 around Memorial Day and St. Slant up until I had a condition and incarceration for this case I basically been a hermit living at home 24-7 to complete the task from the rest of society in every significant way imaginable. No employment, no friends, no social contacts. My only social contacts, if you will, were with my parents because I happened to live with them and with my sister because she was from down and busy. So help me understand the reasoning for being so isolated. You went to college, you went to law school.

Did you struggle with isolation then as well, or is this something trigger this? Yes and no. What was the environment? So kind of like this environment, and then I was forced to live away from home when I went to college and when I went to law school. So it kind of was like

this environment and that was kind of forced exposure. So I wasn't as isolated as I had been and have been with my parents. But at the same time, did I have a normal social life? The vast majority of my classmates had in college or the vast majority of my classmates had in college or the best majority of my classmates had in all schools. No, you could definitely say I was still pretty significantly isolated. I can honestly say that. The last time I really applied myself to my studies was probably at middle school. Ever since high school I've just been posting basically on natural abilities, not really focusing on studying or doodling my homework or classwork like all of my classmates were. Until law school and when I went to law school at the University of Michigan which is an elite law school I was surrounded by people, my peers

who had gone to undergraduate institutions like Yale and Harvard and Stanford. So it was a little bit more difficult for me to coast by in law school, certainly, than it had been up to that point. But I still didn't really apply myself because at that point I didn't really have any concrete goal in mind. It was just some place I had gone because when I graduated from college,

I was debating getting a PhD in history. We're going to law school, but even that, I really didn't put that much thought or effort into making that decision. And I guess you could say, I just kind of chose law school in a way. Okay. So you complete law school and you move back home.

There's no period of your life that you live on your own. You didn't get a job to sustain yourself Why do you think that is? So I don't need to interrupt you, but basically what one of the counselors I've seen here It's pretty perfect. I put myself under house arrest for the past 10 plus years She said by what you're describing, it's almost like you close your own life, that you've been in a state of cryostasis, basically, for the past 10, 12 years or whatever. So that's definitely a fair assessment. Tell me then how the circumstances in this case start happening. Okay, well, first of all, I just want to emphasize the fact that my sentencing, when Detective

D*** first came to visit me in September of 2021, to inform me that I was going to be arrested for this crime and ensured I did. I take full responsibility for every single one of my actions, whatever. I'm going to say my way of explanation in response to the question of just asking, is it no way? An excuse or an minimization or rationalization, because I knew what I was doing was certainly illegal, and was causing significant emotional distress

and trauma to multiple people. And I continued to do it anyway. So I make no excuses for any of the actions that I took that led to this case. I owe them completely and fully. I have been diagnosed with severe OCD interference I know most of my life and I had not treated it. My parents as you might imagine since I was a 43 year old man with a long leave living at home

completely unemployed, my wife had been been exploring me for some time, basically going back to high school in college to see someone and to be treated for the OCD and the anxiety. So I might have a life and I might be a productive part of society and not a hermit living at home with his parents. On and off, I saw Psychiatrist. My first Psychiatrist was in my senior year in college when I kind of was on the verge of a nervous breakdown Before taking the LSAT. I remember my sister asked me to borrow my car to drive to work because her car was in the shop And I had the LSAT coming up in two or three days

I almost had a nervous breakdown because I was catastrophizing Well, she borrows the car and she gets into some sort of an accident and the car is damaged and I won't be able to drive to the LSAT in two days. Just a whole bunch of craziness basically due to my anxiety. And my parents really realized at that time on the phone, that's really a complete overreaction and you need to see some way. So I saw my first psychiatrist in college in New Jersey back in 2011, I don't know, by my estimate, probably around eight or nine different psychiatrists, cis-land, well, I'm always on and off basis

and I take full responsibility for that as well, because I know that I obviously had issues that I had problems, my parents and my sister had been a poor meat to see somebody to correct those problems so that I might have a life. And I never stuck with that. So for the past 22 years, that's been the pattern. I saw a psychiatrist at law school.

I saw a psychiatrist after I graduated from law school in South Carolina, right up to the time in New Jersey until I was extradited. But I had always kind of been looking for a silver bullet. I was hoping that one of these psychiatrists would prescribe me something and that after a couple weeks again into my system, whatever the drug was, that I would feel significantly better. And when that didn't happen, especially when I started experiencing some side effects, I got really bad stomach aches. I would give up on them too soon.

I would stop seeing the psychiatrist and stop taking the medication. At the point all of these events occurred, I was, it's fair to say, a very depressed, angry, frustrated 43-year-old with a water degree, 43-year-old man with a law degree from an elite law school who had done nothing with his life whatsoever and who was living as an apartment in his retired parents' home.

My parents would constantly remind me that you had basically swandered your entire life, that you had swandered whatever intellectual gifts you had been given, what opportunities you had been given, educational opportunities you had been given, and you have accomplished absolutely nothing in your life. You have never really faced any significant challenges that you have overcome. You have never really gone out into the world at all and accomplished anything. You are going to be a pretty unhappy, cross created, angry person. Now unfortunately I wasn't unhappy enough to motivate myself to see somebody on a regular basis to try to change that on the outside. And once again, that's on me.

I take full responsibility for that. I know that that was something I should have done at the time. I just chose not to do it at the time for a variety of reasons, which I now realize were wrong. My head was in the wrong place at that time. The psychiatrist left Seoul right at the downtown detention center helped me understand it. As well as the graduate student I saw for CBT. When I was seeing them, I thought it was first time I had died out here in Denver. They basically helped me understand, okay, the OCDU had us back, granted.

And that's something that I always had focused on and my parents had always focused on because I was obsessed with the is that, granted. And that's something that I always had focused on and my parents had always focused on because I was obsessed with the idea that, okay, my father touches his wallet, or touches his keys, and then goes into the refrigerator of the utensil drawer. He's contaminating those things.

And I would start catastrophizing about, well, once he's contaminated the utensil drawer, there's nothing anybody can do. I'm gonna get sick, I'm gonna get the flu, and I'm unemployed, so I have no health concerns So then I'm gonna have to go to the doctor and my first family for that That was just a small snippet of what living with me was like. I feel my anxiety I could not

Interact with the world of ours because I couldn't control the world of ours So I basically and Dr. Watson and Dr. Miley helped me understand this I strength the entire world to be my parents' house. That became my world. And I tried to deal with the anxiety and extremely maladaptive matter, which was counterproductive, dealing with my parents and trying to control everything inside this house from, I'm the only one allowed to go into the refrigerator, I'm the only one allowed to go into the utensil drawer. If I see them touch the door handle with the remote control for the TV, I'm the only one allowed to go into the refrigerator. I'm the only one allowed to go into the utensil drawer. If I see them touch the door handle

with remote control for the TV, I'm gonna automatically get my cross pads and disinfect that even if it's up to 40 or 50 times a day, even if it's to the point where my skin is cracking from the explosives. So that's basically where my mind was at when all these accidents began. I had myself on the verge of a nervous breakdown

and I had my parents on the verge of a nervous breakdown. The vindictiveness and the threatening actions from which this case arose, I would say, definitely took place through the fact that I had that anger and that frustration in my own life. I had turned to the internet obviously as my only outlet for social interaction with people on the outside because I had no interaction with my peers. I was on the internet at 11 to 12 hours a day. I would wake up maybe around 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning, eat breakfast, and go to my parents computer room. It's where the laptop was and I'd be on the laptop the rest of the morning, all afternoon. We eat dinner at 5 o'clock, 5.30. I'd go back to the computer room after eating dinner

and I'd be on the internet until midnight, 1 a.m., 2 a.m., sometimes 3 a.m., or 4 a.m. I'd go to bed, I'd wake up, I'd repeat that the next day, day after day, to substitute the lack of social interaction I had with my peers by controlling all interactions through the internet, by creating these fake profiles, by trying to simply control whatever social interaction I was able to gain, either through dating websites or through message boards, if I went to the house, if I was actually interacting with people face to face.

I obviously could not observe much control over those interactions as I could on the internet. So, the predictiveness and the threats definitely came from my inability to control that are latent anger, which I already had, the latent frustration, which I already had within me, the latent depression, which I obviously already had. I tapped into that and I reacted with anger and addictiveness. So how do you address your mental health now?

What are you working on? How do you see yourself being able to transition? Like I said, I have a great deal of gratitude to everybody that worked with me. I never shared any of this with my parents. They obviously knew there was a problem because they show my behavior at home. But I never opened up to them. I never told them what was going on inside my head. I never told them about the anger and the frustration. I never opened up to them because I had always been a very very private person. It makes sense when you think about, well, you know, I completely cast myself from society and didn't really interact with anybody. I've always been a very circumspect, private person person and something that I've

realized since this entire experience of my car racing began two years ago. I think the responsibility for us to completely, actually have a way of completely opening up to somebody and just getting all this out and I have consistently refused to do that. I was just able to tell them everything. I mean I told told him, you know, I'm here now, obviously. All of these issues have led me to be expedited from New Jersey. Being out here now, facing a very serious charge. These are my issues. This is basically what I need to address these are the faults I've been having.

And he was able to help me understand. Just, you know, put everything into focus. They were able to tell me things like your entire life you've been hyper-visual in catastrophizing over every single minor and major event that happens on a daily basis in your life. So then let me just let me get us back on track. We only have so much time and you've given me a lot of information about how your mental health you've struggled for a long time. Long story short, I've stuck with it. After two months, the Zola was helping me tremendously with both the anxiety and the OCD. I'm currently taking 250 milligrams, which is above the FDA recommended limit of 200 milligrams. I've never been in a better or happier place.

I'll be completely honest with you. This is, I know we need to wrap up, but I've said this to everybody. And even though it sounds odd at first, it's the God's honest truth. Even my fellow Ignatians, I basically agree with me. They said, you know, we can honestly see that this has been the greatest experience in my life. This has been the greatest adventure of my life. And I understand that that might sound to a normal person who had been living a normal life up to this point, really perverse and bizarre and absurdly strange.

But to somebody who hadn't been leaving the house at all and had absolutely no life, I had been leaving the house at all and had no life. It was a really unhappy, depressed, frustrated place for the last 13 years. Being extradited out here in Colorado, on the other side of the country, facing what is obviously the most significant challenge of my life, something which I brought upon myself, which I invited upon myself, due to my actions, and just getting through this. Some of the psychiatrists said, this is like most exposure for you.

All the issues you had, this was taking you out. You're hermetically sealed, comfort zone at home, but you were not gonna leave it any other way, as evidenced by the fact that I didn't do anything to change my situation for 13 years. Even though I was employed to, oh, you don't like using public restrooms, you would do that, well, guess what?

I'm freezing now, you gotta do that. You don't like hanging out with other people if you're uncomfortable. Guess what, you can be surrounded by a complete, there'd be a screen here from all walks of life. Yeah, I mean, I get that this has been quite a challenge for you. I am very concerned that your thought process

about this being the greatest experience of your life came at the cost of somebody else being victimized by your behavior. And so I would encourage you to spend some time thinking about the impact you had and stop thinking so much about yourself because you've spent, I guess, close to 30 minutes now telling me about how you have had this diagnosis,

that you are so smart, that you have had a hermit lifestyle over and over. I've pointedly asked you several times about the impact or why you decided to do this and you come right back to yourself. And so I would encourage you Mr. Morrison to spend some time over the course of your greatest experience of your life thinking about how you've impacted the victim in your case because you terrorized someone for your own joy. And I don't know if that's lost on you or if it just hasn't come about, but you've said nothing about that to me. I fully appreciate the impact of what I did when the detective first came to my house. I about that to me. I fully appreciate the impact I have on my victim.

When the detective first came to my house, I admitted that I did it. I never lied or hide behind any excuses like so many people do that. I think he said, I chose to plead guilty even though my defense attorney advised me against it and even though there was no deal on the table whatsoever. I said, no, I did it, I'll plead guilty.

I stood up in front of the judge, the judge even told me, are you sure you want to plead guilty to this? I plead guilty, I did it. I'll plead guilty. I stood up in front of the judge. The judge even told me Are you sure you want to plead guilty to this? I plead guilty. I completely terrorized my victims. I completely terrorized my victims My victims mother Called me a Nazi at my sentencing and I completely agree with that. That is I was a completely spot-on assessment I told the judge that basically my crimes against my victims, which include my primary victim, her family, her friends, her coworkers, her social circle, and society itself, my actions violated. I said that at my sentencing, and I'll say this now because it's the truth, it's the

way I feel, my actions in this case violated every single principle and more allure if you will that this society represents and that this society stands for. I realize that at the time and I can use to take those out through how it caused them a tremendous a tremendous amount of emotional distress and even physical distress. I have never minimized that or denied that whatsoever. Okay I appreciate that. And my next question for you, Mr. Morrison, is what are your plans for a potential release?

Eventually you'll get out. And so what do you plan to do? I mean, I saw that you want to interstate, but not sure that you want to involve your parents until you've been released or approved to be released. But what are you going to need to do as far as like getting into the world, not repeating this same, same, same? Well, I'm a Marine Mechler,

I was in Cali, Christian, New Jersey before I was naturally guided and I explained the situation to him. And he told me that I understand you'll still be a patient of mine whenever you return from the state of Colorado, even if it's after several years you'll still be a patient and I'll continue to see you and I will recommend a CBP licensed therapist for you to see as well. So since the zone law from the quantity has been so effective for me I'm going to continue obviously on those medications and as I it, as case manager Dio explained to me,

I will probably also be required to get a job as part of my parole. And I'm sure that that is something that my parents would require for me if I'm to move back to anything. So whenever I'm released, I plan on obviously getting a job because I don't plan on violating my parole.

Okay. All right, well, I'll make some decisions, Mr. Morrison. The two options I have are to defer you and you will have this type of hearing next year or I can take you to the full board. The full board is myself and my eight colleagues. You're not present for that. It would be a presentation I would make based on our conversation today and what we can review in the computer.

You do need the majority vote from the full board to be released. The process to go to the full board takes several months. You wouldn't have an answer until probably the end of June beginning of July. If you were granted a release, it would be tabled for an interstate plan which can take four months. So that's my next step. I'll make a decision today about taking you to the full board or deferring you.

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You can listen to Dr. Death Bad Magic early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I had heard his voice and I had heard him speak, but I had not heard him speak for the length of time that he did. I was just blown away hearing him talk. His voice was so unexpected to me because he had left me multiple voicemails and the voice that I heard in those voicemails was not his real voice. Shocker. Hearing the real voice of that person who's hurt you so badly and attacked you

and harassed you and tormented you for so long, there's just something emotional about it too and creepy. In his parole hearing, one of the things he said is he used the internet to socialize and torment people, dating sites, message boards. And when he said that, it was also validating in the sense that there are other victims. And he just admitted, I met him on a dating site. I did not meet him on a message board.

So who else is out there that he has been doing this to? I think the moment when he said that being in jail was the best experience of his life, my jaw dropped. I'll never forget that. And I looked around as if there were people there with me. Like, did you just hear that? I will never forget that moment. It was just like, wow. I knew there was something evil and disturbingly wrong

with this individual. To hear him in his own words, essentially validate that in his own way, gave me, validation's the right word. That, you know, when you're going through this process, a part of you is like, did I make the right decision? Is this the right thing to do? Is this gonna ultimately hurt me more than it's gonna hurt him?

Is this gonna do any good? Listening to him in that parole hearing, I was able to take a deep breath through the anxiety I was having. You're trying to rationalize what kind of person would do this, why they would do it, what happened to them, that they're so hurt and angry that this is what they're doing.

And this was the first time that I got some insight into what that potentially was. This guy is exactly from a profile standpoint who I thought he was. I came out of it with a sense of empowerment and validation as to why I press charges to begin with. When I was going through this whole ordeal, I think for self-protection, some people tended to discount who this person was as just someone who's bored in their parents' basement, passing the time and taunting people. My dad, I love him and he is my ultimate protector. I think for self-protection,

in his mind, he had said, this guy's behind a computer and he was living in his parents' basement. This guy is harmless. I just have told him repeatedly, I think this guy is capable of a whole hell of a lot more. The parole hearing ends and the parole board chair had some pretty strong words for him. I'm standing there and I'm shaking my fist in the air like, yes, yes, yes. I'm wondering, like, is she seeing through this? The way she ended it with her questions and what she had to say to him

validated that, yes, she did. So when it wound down, I am celebrating. He is going to be denied parole. There's no way this guy is going to get paroled. I'm so grateful. This is another chapter of this experience and process that I can put behind me and get back to my normal life and have some peace again. After it's over, then the three of us, the victim advocate, the parole board chair and myself get on a three-way

call and she essentially said to me two things that I'll never forget. One was, I don't typically do this or say this, but I feel like it's necessary to tell you that I am absolutely denying his parole today. And two, I am so sorry for what happened to you. This man deserves more than 10 years in jail. She may have said it in her own way, but those two things were so validating. And going into the parole hearing was high anxiety and frustration and to come out of it feeling validated and empowered as hard as it was to hear his voice and to deal with anything with him. It was the ending that I wanted.

That's right. He fucked with the wrong person and he fucked with the wrong family. Yep. I got a little bit of my mom and he's so watch out, Morrison. Unbelievable. Thank goodness we learned earlier on that our impact statements would not be read by the parole board member. And we fought for that. Amy fought for that. Another person said, you make sure she gets those impact statements. So we tweaked our impact statements from the sentencing to why he should not get parole. But we were not allowed to be there. We should be able to be there.

The parole board member, they should see the family. They should be able to see living faces, and especially the victim. Why is his face the only face it gets to be seen? And these are the laws that we need to change. Rules are sometimes made to be broken because they're so inhumane, especially when it comes to this situation.

When we listened to the audio of his parole hearing, it was clearly evident, no remorse whatsoever. Cold-hearted, calculated, only concerned about himself having to experience the greatest time of his life during this whole process and meaning it and never once did he think about Amy. And that came out fortunately in the parole hearing. And the parole board member, she said, Amy, I don't do this. I want you to stay on. You know, after she's done with him, I want you to stay on it. You and I need to talk. From what I understand from Amy, she called me immediately afterwards. And she said, I don't

usually ever have to ask for them to make the audio of his parole hearing permanent part of his file. But she was, I have told them this audio must be a permanent part of his file because of the things he said and didn't say hung there. She did say to Amy, it's amazing to me that he was able to go up for parole. And fortunately, this gal saw right through him. She did not take it to the board. She made the decision. She told Amy out of her concern for Amy and what she heard from him, I want you to know of all the dates that he's going to be able to go for residential housing or something in the, in a housing situation.

And she said, I want you to know these dates and be very well aware of them so you're prepared. I really, with all my heart, hope that each time that he goes up to be able to get out early, that doesn't happen. I hope that he will serve, albeit short time, in Colorado for the max sentence that he has to serve at all in prison. We're praying to God that he stays in the whole time, yet he will still be out walking amongst all of us in mid-summer of 2025. Then he has two years parole and that is a whole nother saga because there's a whole lot that we need to have happen so that parole is done safely for Amy. That's a battle in and of itself. She has a permanent restraining order, which has to be redone every so often

that she will have to do for the rest of her life or until his life ends too. Here's Amy's co-worker Natalie. His sentencing is a fraction of the years that he has really caused so much pain to Amy as a single victim. Does he feel remorse? I don't think so. How do we know that he's not going to continue to do this?

And maybe he had a larger motive. We were able to catch him before we were able to see. He does not deserve to have the freedom that he's really taken away from so many for so many years. I remember Amy trying to navigate the freedom that he's really taken away from so many, for so many years. I remember Amy trying to navigate the system at large, and it is a very complex and challenging system to navigate. Amy is highly educated and was extremely determined

and just seeing how difficult and frustrating of a process it was, was truly discouraging. We know there's other victims that are still afraid to come forward. How do we support them not only to influence the sentencing, but to make sure that their voice can be heard and that they can feel safe in their own community as well. I think what I love most about your podcast and podcasts in general is their ability to reach so many. The way Amy found out about this podcast and decided to really come forward

with her situation was because hearing other stories and being encouraged to share your own. As I mentioned in my personal statement, there are so many women who are scared to speak up. And I hope this gives them the courage to continue to do so, not only to maybe find additional victims in this case, but there are countless of other cases and victims that deserve equal attention and safety moving forward. I just want to thank you for the work that you're doing in sharing stories like this. This is how we can break the silence for these victims and encourage additional victims to feel that they do have a voice and they can be empowered to share their story because there is nothing more painful

than someone who is suffering in silence. Here's Amy's work colleague, Sarah. I hope that with Amy telling her story, this allows her to release more for herself. I hope this gives space for her. Honestly, I hope it helps all of us. Maybe part of that is from my cathartic sense of being able to tell the story out loud, not under the fear of it happening. I think we have to continue to talk about this, but I think that some of that uphill battle is because we just don't have the

types of laws and procedures to deal with these types of cyber stalking and harassment. And that is something that we have to change. I hope a couple of different things from this coming out. I hope that we strengthen legally how to stop this and come after those that are doing these types of crimes and harassment. I hope that this makes it so that it's not just blaming the victim for utilizing social media or apps, but to say that this isn't acceptable. At all, we have to continue to put in better measures, keep learning more, especially about social media and how things are monitored on that. There also needs to be better strengthening tools within these technologies to protect people. I still have a dozen or more of these old dummy requests

in my apps, still to this day, when I get those unsolicited. It's taught me to be savvier and really ensuring that you're looking at each of them. I hope a lot of things start to happen from this conversation. And we always have to continue to have conversations of how victims are affected and as always that we give community to each other.

Here's Amy's business partner, Andy. Amy never expected something like this to happen to her. This has happened to many, many people. So don't think that it can happen to you. You're not alone in these situations. But if you have someone to reach out to that you feel can be a support, that'll help you through these things, I think for us, having such a great team of people to help support Amy in this

was the reason that it ended so successfully. And knowing that you're not alone in times like that is, I think, really important. So if there's a way to reach out to somebody, do it as soon as early on as you feel like things have taken a turn for the worst and that you're in a situation that you don't really control anymore. I think podcasts are a great way to get information and stories out there that will hopefully help other people. I'm fully supportive of Amy's efforts. She's trying to change the legislation within Colorado.

She's met with a number of people in this effort to make sure that if people get caught doing things like this, the punishment actually fits the crime. And so I fully support Amy and all these efforts. Here's Amy's sister, Amanda. I think the hope out of all this is that potentially him going to jail stopped him from doing this to other people

and could have potentially even saved lives, you know, cause it's hard to go through this stuff and Amy had a good support system. And I would imagine, you know, some people, it's been a real struggle, but I think more than anything just bringing awareness to this kind of stuff because in Amy's experience of this and us being along for the ride I had no idea how common this is. There's not a lot of legislation around this type of stocking it's just more new because of technology.

And that's what makes it so scary. It's very common and there's not a lot that can be done about it. I think just knowing that it could happen to anybody. I know people say that all the time, but it's the truth. Being aware of how easily these types of things can happen and just the vastness of the internet,

once it starts, it can just be massive. So being really careful early on, being vigilant, being aware of these crimes and how frequent they are, and having empathy for the people that are experiencing it, it's not their fault. And O'Aimee wants to be like a resource for people that are experiencing this

or have experienced it, to just make changes and bring light to it in a way that can make some lasting change. Here's Amy's dad. I always tried to think that people were essentially good, but I think it's very common for people to, when they can hide behind the internet, they're going to do all kinds of things. As a person my age, it's very scary. I'm of the older generation where a lot of this wasn't available, so it didn't happen. I think the first advice I would say is we like to think that everybody out there is

friendly and they think like us. The reality is there's a lot of strangers out there that are willing to do harm and are willing to look for selfish reasons to impact other people, whether it be through communications or whatever. I think it's important that people understand how careful they need to be. When they're putting information out there, you can't be too careful. But some of the things I see is unbelievable. There should be some accountability for some of these social media platforms where there

were false profiles of my daughter created. We knew it. She reported it. They just seemed unwilling to cooperate with doing the right thing and trying to get those shut down. It was shocking to me that they let this perpetuate. They knew it was wrong. It was false. But for whatever reason, they wouldn't take action against it or against him. I think also they need to understand that there are tools that law enforcement has at their disposal. They'll find you. They

can find you if they want to. So you're not safe. And I think that people need to understand that when they think that they're going to get away with something like this. Maybe that will be a deterrent to them if they understand that the possibility of getting identified, caught, arrested and prosecuted is higher than they think. I think when he chose Amy as one of his victims, he made a big mistake because she's not the kind of person to just run and hide behind the tree. She took action and she's still taken action to try to stop this from happening to other people and other victims. She's a bulldog and she will take this as far as she can to try to help enact legislation that will help enforce these laws and make them a little tougher and to make it a more

understood crime. I think a lot of people tend to, you know, keep their family secrets and not talk about things like this. This is a terrible thing that happened to her. I think it's not only therapeutic for her to take action and to try to make a difference going forward, but I think it's also the right thing to do. And I think it's in her heart that she's got to do something to help others who are may not be in a position she's in with the ability to fight back like she is. There's so many victims out there and there's so many people who are victims of this stuff that we never hear from. Thank you for doing what you do because I think this is so important. People have to have an

understanding of what can happen and what does happen every day. You're a voice and an advocate for the victims. Thank you for doing what you do. Amy was she a victim? Absolutely. And she is still being victimized because of the technology. Yet she is an overcomer. That's where we're all at with this is moving forward to help others, to be catalysts like you are

for good and for change, and to help support others who are going through this to know that they are not alone, and that good can come out of it. We just have to stay strong together, and that's what it takes is together. We are very hopeful that other victims will recognize this situation and this abuser this predator and will have the strength to stand up Hopefully other victims will find out within themselves families too so they can help those victims because it's difficult for the victim It's the most difficult for them the other victims They've had more of a silent life where they've been able to not be attacked by him because he's been in prison. Yet, he will be getting out. And we need others to stand up and say, I'm going to be next in line to prove that, yes,

this is what this guy's been doing to me too, and put him in prison again and again because he is not remorseful what he's done. This man has men and women victims and he's got plenty of them. It could happen to anybody. What is he truly capable of? That's the question that we all should be thinking about. Just in our sphere of influence, it's interesting to me who I didn't think would be supported,

who are extremely, they're like, oh my gosh, I get this. And then others that I thought they would be, it's like they don't get it. But you know, you don't judge any of that. You just say, let's move forward with those that get it. And hopefully the others will come along. And I think that's how you have to look at society too.

Information is powerful. This is why Tiffany, I really, really sincerely thank you and our whole family does for the opportunity to expose the realities of various forms of stocking, especially cyber stocking. Our stories need to get out there and that's why I respect that you have yours out there because people that don't have those support systems, they need to hear those and know that they can be healed. I just really want you to know that this has been very empowering actually. Certain parts,

of course, might have been draining, but thank you for that because empowerment, healthy empowerment leads to healthy reform and change. There were two missions I assigned myself. That was to do this, to get my story out there, to try to identify other victims so they can come forward. At this point, the one other victim I've confirmed is a survivor of his, is not in a position and not comfortable coming forward. I will say my takeaway was there are direct parallels to what he latched onto in both of our situations. We both have a commonality that there was someone Latino that we had dated or had a sexual experience with

and that after whatever the communication was ended, retaliated. I don't want to speak on her behalf, but I can tell you, the threats against her were actually death threats. The one survivor I talked to, she met him two years prior to me meeting him. I don't think this guy took a two-year break. I think this is something he's been doing non-stop for a very long time. Therefore, there are a lot of victims who are out there who don't know who

this individual is and are still looking over your shoulder and wondering when he's going to pop back up. The guy he portrayed to be on Plenty of Fish back in 2016, he circulated similar pictures that he had asked for of me. And I know that guy is also a victim. I would love to find out who that individual is and give him the opportunity to get the justice that he deserves. That's why I'm here.

I want this story to be out because I know there's many others. The torment has stopped because he's been in jail, but they don't know that. They don't know why it stopped or when it would start again. And there is no end to it right now for them. I want them to have that opportunity that I did to know who this person is, to know why it stopped and to keep it stopped and get the justice they deserve. The first reaction is that they want to hide or they don't know what to do so then they just delete everything and that's the exact opposite of what should be done because

they've done nothing wrong. They're victims and there should be no shame. If you really want to find the actual predator you have to be vulnerable and you have to take action early on and document it. He'll be released in June of 2025 if no one else comes forward. That is not that far away and that terrifies me, the thought of him getting out. I mean, he's being held in a prison an hour and a half from where I live. And so my hope is that others hear this, if you've been hurt and stalked by the same individual, please come forward. No, you're not alone. There's a lot of us. If people believe that they are also a victim of Morrison or any other cyber stalker,

that FBI website that Amy mentioned, which we're linking in the episode notes, is the FBI Internet Crime Complaint Center. The abbreviation that is also used commonly for this branch of the FBI is IC3. And the website is actually i-letterc-and-the-number-3.gov. For anyone who is experiencing digital violence, this is the place to go. Yeah, absolutely. The second mission I assigned myself was legislative change based on my experience and challenges.

The things that didn't make sense to me while I was going through the process, whether it be from the protection order side of things, the fact he was extradited to my backyard for stalking, the fact he was sentenced to the maximum sentence, which was less time than the amount of years he stalked me. There's just a lot. I've connected with some advocacy groups here vocally. They're reaching out to survivors

to see if we're willing to share our stories and support them on some bills that they're pursuing. One of the bills is related to victim services funding. Apparently, they're facing a possible 50% cut in federal Victims of crime act funding to Colorado. Those funds support a substantial number of victim advocate positions in both community-based organizations and system-based agencies, like police in the prosecutor's office.

I don't want to see that happen. The experience and the benefit I got from working with an advocate, I'm shocked. This is even something that we're going to have to fight. Although I was going to engage a therapist on my own as everything ramped up, knowing that the victim advocacy program would cover a portion of those costs, that was even more of a motivator to do it sooner

rather than later. And I found a great therapist who was with me every step of the way through this process. I was reimbursed for therapy sessions that I had. Obviously it's up to a certain portion, but so grateful. I want to say how important therapy is when you're going through something like this. Another bill would require dating apps

to have a safety policy that explains how they handle and respond to reports of sexual violence. It informs the users of that policy and it shares the number of reports received and their responses to the Attorney General's office. It also creates a greater liability for dating apps if a user who's been previously reported harms someone else. As you know, I have a huge bone to pick

with dating apps, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, all of the social media companies. There are some other aspects to this too where it requires a two-party consent for tracking devices and it creates a civil cause of action for those who are tracked without their consent. And then it expands protections under Colorado's existing non-consensual pornography law to victims of AI and deep fakes. The other one, and this was a big one, is protection orders. It's a key tool used by survivors to provide that safety, and the bill that they're proposing

will reduce barriers for survivors in court and improve their safety in obtaining that. I told you about my civil protection order experience, which was one of the worst experiences of my life. Because I had a criminal case, I do have a permanent protection order against Morrison, which that was still an interesting process. So I also want to support that one. I am here and want to support all efforts for change and impact, not only with stalking, I want to support all victims of all crimes, but this one's very personal to me because I've been through it. I just can't thank you enough. Speaking of that, it is Friday, January 12th.

The first episode was released for wide release yesterday. Second episode, early release, like I shared with you before we started today recording the response that we have gotten from those that I've spoken with. My goodness, Amy, everybody is just like team Amy, loves you, loves your family, and wants to support you however they can. I'd love to hear from you what the support and feedback has been like for you so far. You're making me choke up.

This journey is a scary one to embark on. I initially reached out to you, Tiffany, a year ago about my story. It took me from September when Morrison was sentenced until January to have the strength to reach out to you to tell my story and submit it. And so here we are a year later and I always went into it with a mindset of this is something bigger than me. Yes, this is my story, but it has impacted so many people in my life. And I can tell you that it's even more freeing sharing my story with you and everyone

out there. I'm so grateful to you and your team for the opportunity. And Jake, his perspective to kick it off was so insightful. And there's so many data points that people need to hear. I learned something from what he said. I have to say the support has been beyond overwhelming. I was extremely emotional yesterday in the best way possible because of the messages and the calls and the overall support. I have amazing family and friends. There's people in the professional community who I am on social media with and there have been people who have come forward just since the trailer came And there have been people who have come forward just since the trailer came out and the first episode

who have come forward to tell me about their personal stories. Some stalking, some domestic violence and assault, males and females. The support I felt was just a deep breath and sigh of relief that this was the right decision in sharing my story. And I hope it empowers others to come forward. I'm so thankful you're sharing your experience. I literally wake up every day so happy and excited to do this work because what it can do for our resiliency and our collective power, I can't thank you enough. I can't wait to see what else comes of this

and continue to work and advocate together. I just want to thank you for the change you've already made. I appreciate that. This is tough, tougher than I thought, but I'm appreciative for you Tiffany, because you definitely make it easier. Next time on Something Was Wrong.

There were fireworks, there was chemistry, there was a kiss. I left at the end of the night and I couldn't wait to see him again. He had this military grade little backpack that he carried around with him everywhere. It was his medic kit. He would carry his gun in that because he's an ER trauma nurse. He is basically Superman. Duggas planned another trip for me to come visit in Memphis. I was super excited. He had been kicked out of his other living situation. I think he told me that they just didn't have the room available anymore. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends. with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram. At Something Was Wrong podcast. Our theme song was composed by Gladrags. Check out their album,

Wonder Under. Thank you so much. I take my time every day. I call my mama she said. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Something Was Wrong early and add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Or you can listen early and add free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.