Something Was Wrong - S3 E6: A Psychopathic Narcissist

Episode Date: November 22, 2019

Brad meets with Kurt to discuss what he knows.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psychy Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the cold-butter killers you read about in the news. Listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychy Daily in the Amazon Music exclusive podcast killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. This podcast is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that could be triggering

to some. Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. I am not a therapist or a doctor. All resources, books and sources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes. Please note, names have been changed in this story for anonymity purposes. If you or someone you love is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. If you or someone you love is struggling with a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24-7 at 1-800-273-8255.

Please note, some of today's episode involves suicidal ideation or thoughts of suicide. Please take care when listening. Thank you. Here's CJ Bishop telling me about how Victoria's brother and her brother's wife, A.K.A. Ted's BFFs and Brad's aunt and uncle discovered the affair between Ted and Patty. His aunt and uncle, his wife, is the one that noticed. Apparently they were visiting for Brad's graduation or maybe his sisters like but they were here and Patty and Kurt and their family were you know also of course involved and at this graduation party and apparently they saw an interaction with Ted and Patty

that they felt was off. They just must have a lot better radar than we do because we never experienced that. But they just caught them in a very odd moment. And they didn't say anything. Months went by after this witness kind of interaction between Patty and Ted, and one night they were talking to Ted on the phone and joking around and you know just kind of bust in each other about certain things. I mean that's just what

they did and I think it was my husband's and had ended up saying to my father in law like oh you think I don't know every secret about you? I know a lot more than you think. And my father-in-law was like, what? Yeah, right. You know, you don't blah blah blah. And she simply said, I know that you and Patty are having an affair. And apparently there was just dead quiet on the other end of the line. And he said, how did you know that? And she's like, I saw you at, you know, whatever graduation party it was at the time. She's like, I saw it. And he said, well, if you can see that, how many other people can?

And she's like exactly Ted. So what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? And the story with that was, you know, my mother-in-law, Victoria, like, she's just became crazy, and he's very unhappy, and they wanna be together, and kind of all came out through there. I mean, ever since then, they knew about it. They knew about this affair.

They did choose to kind of side with Ted and support him in it, because they truly thought that him and Patty were gonna end up together. They had correspondence with Patty, they talked to Patty on the phone, they have emails, you know, of her admitting to it and saying like, you know, that she can't believe that they figured that out. And they were in full support of it at the time, but as some time went on, they too came around and saw like, okay, something is rotten here. She's not who she says she is. She is not a good person to be around

and you need to come clean. She must have done a couple things like that. They were like, wait, ha, ha. Like, so they started kind of figuring her out. Paddy knew it. And in turn patty started telling Ted like ha, like, you know, he like she was trying to steer him away from even them. So this disconnect with my father-in-law and Brad really started to grill my father-in-law, like hey, like you need to cut-law like hey like you need to

contact from Patty you need to make it right with your son you need to come clean like you need to do it you need to do it like they would just hound him and hound him like I guess they felt like it's not we can't do this for you like this has to come from you you need to just make things right in your family and he wouldn't like, all he would do is just just connect even further from them. And he's been friends with them so long. They were the only two people that were that close to him.

I mean, and like, even he disconnected from them, which was crazy. A few days after we came home from Ted's funeral, a friend of mine was in that group of friends with Patty, text her and see how they were, see what was going on, and Diana confronted Patty. Patty had said in a text, and I actually think I still have a copy of it that she has slept with other people but she did not sleep with Ted but the police report and the many many emails that my sister-in-law has says different. And do you think one of those people that she was sleeping with besides

Ted was Mr. Johnson? Oh yeah without a doubt. Oh yeah. Mr. John, I said that for years. I says he is very sweet on you and she's like oh you're just making that up. I'm like no I'm not. I said it's blatant. You can see he is flirting with you. He is all but kissing your butt. I said, you don't see that? Because, oh no, he's not doing that. And I'm like, everybody can see it. I don't know where you're blind, but is, but everybody can see it.

But Ted did not. Ted kept it very, very, I never saw it. After the fact, I never saw it. After the fact, I saw one picture while we were at Disney, she had her hand laying on his. And then of course, you start putting two and two together and you see the closeness of Mr. Johnson and Ted and Patty. Yeah, it was quite, must have quite a triangle because Ted hated hated Mr. Johnson

They tolerated each other and then Probably like I want to say like the last seven eight years they lose each other. And Patty was always very famous to really rip up Mrs. Johnson. Just speak badly of her constantly. And if you call her on things, she seemed to back away a little bit. But it wasn't very often that I called her on things because I always kept trying to keep the peace. I always tried to keep everybody happy and I made no one happy, including myself. I used to tell her, I said, you have got it all. She used to tell me all the time, oh, I just love my life. I said, you have a man that loves you so much and you can see it. I said, I wish I

had an ounce of that right now. I would be ecstatic if my husband put his hand on my hand and Harry wouldn't because Patty would see it. And Patty would get enraged if he touched me. What do you think made Patty so relax of a better term in toxicating? I think it was a personality that she would sweet talk to them. And she would play Gidey. And she would like to flirt with them.

Do I think she was good-looking? She was average. I don't think she was anything to write home about. I know that when Ted and I married, always she should tell me he says, you know, if you get bigger than a size 10, I'll be forced to. I expect a certain look in my wife.

And Patty was none of those things. If you're into true crime, the Generation Y podcast is essential listening. We started this podcast over 10 years ago to dissect some of the craziest and most notable murders, crimes, and conspiracy theories together, and we'd love for you to join us. Generation Y is one of the longest-running true crime podcasts out there, and we are still at it, unraveling a new case every week. We break down infamous cases like the Evil Genius Bank robbery, and lesser known cases

like the case of Kimberly Rico. Did she actually kill her husband after they took part in a murder mystery game? We cover every angle, breaking down theories, diving deep into forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case. And with over 450 episodes, there's a little something for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y Podcasts on Amazon Music or every Listen to Podcasts. Or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app. Patty, the great next door to Mr. Johnson. So there was always a little slight difference there because Ted just didn't like Mr. Johnson because he thought he was a sleazebag and he just because he doated over Patty and and Patty she liked the

attention. She liked the attention. We were her puppets and she was in control of all of us. Patty would tell me that CJ would be talking behind their back, talking about us, talking about them that CJ hated feel-brien family, hated her boys, couldn't stand their daughter, that CJ would make things up about them, and I'm like, really? Really? But I got to the point where I believed it because I was like, why would they lie to me? And I felt horrible afterwards. And Ted was a flirt. I'll be the first to say that. And Ted used to flirt with CJ. You know, very innocent. Ted was a flirt with all women, especially pretty women. After the fact, after what we found out, it was because CJ is pretty and padded in like it.

Patti could not stand that Ted would occasionally flirt with CJ. And it was very innocent. It was his daughter and mother goodness sake. It wasn't like he was coming onto her or anything. And point of blank, that's what it was. And so she used that against CJ and turned Ted away from his son and his daughter-in-law. And in my opinion, CJ was figuring it out when things started getting really hot and heavy, and that's when Ted completely turned away from Brad. CJ is a smart, smart young woman.

The night that all of this came out, you know, basically what was said was the whole problem started. This whole disconnect between us and my father-in-law was the fact that Patty didn't like that Ted and I had a good relationship, you know, because him and I were buddy buddy, like, you know, I knew I would bust on him about like the stupidest stuff and I could make him laugh a lot and he would make me laugh too, like he just,

he was just funny to be around, I mean, his personality in mine really kind of went together. And I mean, yeah, he was just hysterical. Like, back when things were good, we had a good relationship. And she hated it. Like, she just hated it. I don't know. I don't know if she thought, I don't know if she thought maybe my father-in-law

had a romantic interest in me at some point or something. And that just set her off. So then she decided to start all this and use rumors. But it breaks my heart because so many times he told me that I was just like a daughter to him. You know, he, I remember even one time my dad, my dad had called my cell phone when I was over at Brad's parents house. This was years ago. And I didn't have reception, or my dad didn't have reception on his end. So I picked up the phone and I like stepped into the next room, and I'm on my cell phone and I'm going, Dad.

And Ted turned around from watching TV and said, yeah. And at first I kind of didn't get it it and then I said again, I'm like dad And Ted again turned on he's like what and I thought oh my god He thinks of me like a daughter and I will never forget that and it just breaks my heart now because things went so awry But he really did I think thinking of me like another like another kid to him and It just breaks my heart. I went along right with it. Like I'm not acting like the innocent party here because for a lot of years,

I totally took what she was giving me and just like ate it up. Like I believed everything she said. I mean I just totally like fed right into stuff and whatever she would feed me, I would believe it because I honestly thought she was a person of her word. She always seemed like she was so why would I have any reason to disbelieve it? Like she would tell me you know really crappy things that my mother-in-law would like comment about me and a few

times I had called my mother-in-law out on that and said like do you think I like did you think it did you ever problem with me doing this or do you, do you think this and she'd be like, no, why, what, what it's making you ask me that? Like, she'd have zero clue. And whenever I would turn her on tell Patty, well, I confronted her about that and she denied it. She said she never said that or whatever. Patty be like, she's lying.'s lying like she absolutely did say that. She was just anything she could do to turn me against like my in-laws. She definitely did. We're having people come out of the woodwork that that new Patty saying, oh yeah, okay well since this is out in the open, here's what she was telling me about you and here's what she was telling me about you, and here's what she was telling me about your husband, and here's what she was saying about Victoria, and we always thought it was so weird that she talked about her friends so badly whenever they were supposed to be best friends.

I mean, if it's even like... I mean, as crazy as it sounds, one of my best friends, her mother, works in a dentist office in town here, and it's a dentist office that my husband's family all go to, and that Patty's family all go to, will sure enough, didn't she hear a slew of things about me in the dentist office from Patty when Patty would go to have appointments? It's like, I mean, it's insane. Anyway, she could bash this family. To whoever would listen, she would do it. Her husband Kurt came to our home at my husband's invitation, like after all of this kind of started to come out. And basically, you know, he just came over and all my husband asked was,

okay, like, what do you know? I called Kurt about a week or two after. I texted him or something and I said can you come to the house we got to talk. He said yeah. Now my sole purpose in him coming man man man we're gonna I'm gonna invite him into my home. I'm gonna tell him what his wife is. It's not too listen my dad and a lot of things too was a lot of things too. So this isn't I'm just not shoveling the whole pile of junk onto her on the patty. We're gonna get through this and he needs to know. He needs to know. And I said what do you know what happened? He said I was

checking her phone. This is Kurt, Kurt telling me He said I checked the party's phone and there was a ridiculous amount of text messages between her and your dad and her Mr. Johnson and I'm like, okay, he's like and I told her like, you know, I'm not gonna stand for this But blah blah blah. This is what he's telling me. Whatever it's true or not, you know, I believe it and I started telling him stuff She had saved emails What are its true or not, you know, I believe it. And I started telling him stuff. She had saved emails. It was denied and I didn't, I mean it was instantly defense. Oh yeah, why I heard this.

Oh yeah, where I heard that. It's like Kurt. I ain't talking about that stuff man. I ain't talking about, oh yeah, why I heard, I heard, I heard that your dad and your wife had an affair at one point. I'm like really really, really? And I know who started that. It was Patty years ago. And Kurt took it, you know, and started spreading that rumor around.

You know, it was just, it was complete deflection, deflection, deflection, all this stuff. I'm like, listen, man, this is what happened. Like, I buried my dad over this stuff. I'm just telling you, like, this is who she is. And I said, well, do you know that she went and talked to the city detective? Yup, yup, I know she did. I know she did.

She said, I'm like, what'd she say? You know, I told her, you know, did you tell him anything you didn't tell me? No, I swear, I swear. I was like Kurt. She admitted to the whole thing. He really didn't say anything. He just kind of sat there and looked at me.

I'm like Kurt, she admitted to everything. Everything. It's gonna go into the police report do you want to detect this number? I give to him you can hear from him. It's up to you. It was one hour on the nose and after I told him I kept I just kept going back You know he kept saying I showed him printed printed off emails He's like well that could be fabricated you can make that stuff up that could be fabricated. I'm like okay I'll show him another that could be fabric now. I don't believe that I don That could be fabricated. I'm like, okay. I'd show him another.

That could be fabric. Now, I don't believe that. I don't believe that. When I finally told him about what the detective said, I must have brought it up four times. I'm like, Kurt, what do you think of the detective? This is what he said. You can call him right now. What do you think?

What do you have to say about that? In word for word, he said, well, for my own sanity, I have to believe that she's telling the truth. Then right then in there, I knew, listen, in my own heart, I thought, I did what I had to do before things get stupid. I'm not saying a fight or anything like that, but think before like I get mouthy or I rate or whatever, I'm just going to shut it down. So I'm like, all right, well, that's it. That's all I needed. I said, you can head it out if you want. I said, I'm leaving.

I said, I gotta leave the house. I'm gonna go do something. Or you know, and he said, all right, you know, he gave me a hug and he left. And he's walking to his truck and he turned around and looked at me and he said, how many people from the 40th department know about this? And I said, well, there's a couple.

He nodded his head and laughed. And I've always said that for a couple people and they said, because, there's a couple. He nodded his head and laughed. And I've always said that to do a couple people. And they said, because they're all about image. They're all about image. They don't want to be drugged through the mud. They're all about image. You know, at one point, he even said, like, I'm pretty much a victim here too. I'm like, whoa, whoa, yeah, you are.

From everything I know, yeah, you are. Your kids are, you are, you're the victims. Just as as we are I'm letting you know what you're living with man Kirk came over here at his invitation and came totally on the defense like he came here totally knowing like he was on the defensive and Basically just kept saying well We were only friends with your parents because we felt sorry for them because they didn't have family here and they didn't have any other friends except us and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you know, Brad said, boy, if you put some boobs and a blonde wig on that, you, you, you, what, you would have thought you were talking to Patty because

that sounded exactly like the stuff she would say. And it's not that my in-laws didn't have friends here. Like I recall they had other friends, and any friends that they had, Patti never approved of, or Patti would like steer them away, or just talk badly about them, or just put in her crappy input. Like she made it so you know, put in her crappy input. Like, she made it so they didn't need any friends, except for Patty and her family. Just like they didn't need their kids because they had Patty's kids. And that's exactly how she liked it.

Is that the kids fault? No, they're victims in it too. It's not their fault. But Patty knew exactly what she was doing. As far as Kirk goes, if that's how he wants to live his life, then that's how he's going to live his life. No one can force him to leave his wife, no one's going to force him to do anything. If that's what he wants to live with, I guess that's his choice.

My only goal was to inform him and that was it. I don't hate him. I don't have any real eel feelings, I don't hate him. I don't have any real evil feelings. I don't trust him. No different than his wife. I don't hate her. I don't. And I can forgive her, but do I trust her? No. Like, absolutely not. I don't even want to need my family. I don't even want you, like, I just don't. I don't trust you at all. I don't. Like, like I just don't like I don't trust you at all. I don't like you've lost all that She's a good manipulator obviously. She's incredibly deceptive. She's incredibly good at what she does in that aspect of it

but I have wonder and and maybe this is a slam to my dad, but I think it's the honest truth. I think the people that she gets involved maybe with doing that sort of thing, are they maybe a little bit like her? How could you not? How could you wanna go along with something so deceptive or be a part of something like that?

If you're not cut from at least a little bit, even a shred of the same cloth, right? I mean, how else could you go along with that? You know, I don't know the full dynamics of an affair, how it works, and how people tick and all that stuff, but it's like if you know even a fraction of that what's going on and nothing registers you to say or do anything, Well then I guess you're just as evil as she is. My dad was like I said he was a prideful in a sense like he was a rough guy. Shade his head big mosa. He was like your veteran fireman. That's the aura he had. He was just a tough guy. He's a tough childhood. He had a tough up

bringing it. He was just tough. And so, you know, women did kind of, you know, he was a flirt. He was a big flirt. And I think that was his major fall, not only his prideful, horrible pridefulness of him, but he was also a sucker for women. I mean, he could just be led by a string, you know, if he thought that he was impressing a girl or something. That's what, and growing up, that's kind of like what I owe. And you always kind of saw that, like kind of a flirt, you know, always kind of like, I don't want to't say showing off in front of her you know I don't I don't know how else to say it but kind of in a sense you know I don't know like just that he just had that aura about on you know what I mean like I don't think it was it was I don't think it was always like that growing up you know what I mean as far as him you know he cheated on my mom very very early I think it was before I was even born I'm talking like they were still you know he cheated on my mom very, very early. I think it was before I was even born. I'm talking like they were still, you know,

he just had my sister, you know, they were still very young, you know, when they got married. And I think he cheated on her once before, but growing up, I never ever had an inkling that he was doing that, you know, and they had worked through that once before. And, you know, he would never do it again.

And my dad always claimed that my mom would hold that over his head in any big argument. She would kind of hold that over his head. And I told Mrs. Johnson about all of this that came out. You know, I sent her a text message, I should have picked up the phone and called, but I guess I wanted everything in writing at the time. I did fill her in on what was going on and she basically just said like you'll have to just be patient like this is a lot for us to take in blah blah blah like they are our friends and I'm like

I get it like and I pretty much knew that would be my last conversation with her because they would side with Curtin Patty. And not to mention their neighbors. So, so their neighbors and I'm sure that they want to keep up their friendship and good rapport. But I had thanked her like for everything she did for us during that week and with the planning and all the tips. She was so nice and I text her knowing that would be probably the last correspondence I'd have with them. And that's fine. That's fine. We don't want any bridges between Patty and this family. The last time that I had a text from Patty was when I was on my way to the cemetery, was the last time I had any contact with any of that family or the Johnson's.

Everything was dead silence. That whole group of people turned into like cockroaches. We don't see them in town. Nobody sees them in town, nobody sees them at the grocery store anywhere. They are gone, they are and they live not a mile and a half from my son. Kurt, he works in a different part than I do, but it's the same, it's the same shift. So we still see each other, you know, and even once in a while, and he works in a different station than I do, but it's the same shift. And it's kind of weird. That's the weird thing.

I mean, I used to see her all the time because we lived in the same area. I would pass her driving. I don't see her, nobody sees her. And it's amazing that once this has come out, how many people have realized that she was never a good person. Like so many people have come to us saying that they've had run-ins with her. Like, oh yeah, like we, you know, we remember this time and she was just doing nothing but bashing.

Like one of her friends and we've, we just had a bad taste in our mouth ever since then. Or the truth comes out about someone that you know, then how many other people say, oh yeah, like, where, where? It's just so odd. At one point, after the funeral, my children convinced me to actually see a trauma counselor on top of my regular counselors. So at one point, after Ted had passed, I was seeing two counselors. And after I told my story to the trauma counselor, because I was having a lot of issues with going back to my house,

going opening that door, you know, all of those things from the trauma from it. And the one thing that will stick in my head probably forever is she described Patty as a psychopathic narcissist. And when she said that, I said, what do you mean by that? She says, well, this person does not know how. She is soulless. She does not know how to love. She has never known how to truly love. What she is doing is, again, it's a sport to her, where she gets her high is in the deception,

is in the deceiving. She says it probably even wasn't about sex. It was probably more on how much she can tear a family apart, and that she was succeeding doing it. God, she continues to seek counseling for it because for so many years, you know, she was in counseling for the totally wrong reasons, aside from trying to figure out what was going on between her and my father-in-law.

You know, I mean, Patty really pushed on her that she had a lying issue that she was this, she was that, and one time she went and got like a cat scan or something, because she thought she had really on set dementia, because that's what Patti was telling her like, oh, you can't remember this, and you told me this, no, that's not how it went, blah blah blah, like she, she honestly thought she had a shoes. Next time. Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Music on the show, by the band, Gladrags. You can find them on iTunes, Bandcamp, all over the place. They're also an Instagram, so check them out. I'd like to thank the Bishop family for being so vulnerable and brave.

If you want to hang out some more, you can add me on Instagram. I am at LuckyBoo, L-O-O-K-I-E-B-O-O. We also have a hashtag, something was wrong, pod on Instagram. Also, if you are interested in any of the materials, sources, sponsors mentioned on the podcast, you can check them out under the episode and show notes. Also, we will be having another Q&A episode this season, so start sending your questions in, you can email me, text me, find me on Insta, whatever you want. Thank you so much. I can't forget the things that don't make you don't know me, you don't know me, you don't know me Thinking of me, you don't know me well Thinking of me, you don't know me well Let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let it run, let, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Hey, Prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

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