Something Was Wrong - S5 E7: Rebellion is as Witchcraft | Rachel

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

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Hey, prime members, you can listen to something was wrong early and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psychy Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the cold-butter killers you read about in the news. Listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychy Daily in the Amazon Music exclusive podcast killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences. Many episodes discuss topics that

can be triggering such as emotional and physical abuse, suicide and murder. Please take caution when listening. I am not a therapist or a doctor. Opinions expressed by guests of the show do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. If you or someone you love is experiencing a suicidal crisis or thoughts of suicide,

please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Thank you. I don't know Thinking of me, who don't know me well You think of me, don't know me Don't know me, don't know me well Better hold on, better hold on Better hold on, better hold on Better hold on, better hold on Better hold on, better hold on Okay. Okay, my name is Rachel Meyer. I am 27 years old. I currently live in America, but I actually grew up in Scotland. My parents are Scottish and South African, and that's part of the reason why I don't have an accent. My parents spoke with more South African accents, so I just tend to pick up accents quite easily.

So when I came to America, I just speak American, so that's why I don't get confused. I was wondering about the accent, I'm not gonna lie. Well, I can do a Scottish accent if you really like, and when I go back to Scotland, actually, by the time I get off the plane, I tend to switch straight back into a Scottish one. And then when I fly back to America, it goes back to an American accent. I'm never quite Scottish enough

for the Scottish people when I get back though. Like, you can always hear the American in there. So I was raised in a village of 1,000 people in the Highlands of Scotland called King UC. And we always used to make fun of people who visited because they would call it King Gussie because of how it was spelled but nope it was King UC. I have three younger sisters and one younger brother. I was born in Glasgow. My parents were evangelical Christians, charismatic, you would say.

And they moved to England. I think when I was two to study at a Bible college, ran by a church called Kingdom Faith. And they were very much on the charismatic, happy, clappy, holy rollers side of things. And they believed they had been called by God to be missionaries. That's actually why they moved back from South Africa to Scotland. So they went to this school to be trained.

And then the plan was to go back to Scotland and plant a church. And my parents threw that church in England. They had connections with a Christian trust in the islands of Scotland and They had a hundred-year-old hunting lodge that was in this trust family and They wanted a Christian couple to basically come and be the caretakers of it and my parents made a deal with them that They wouldn't have to pay rent they would just pay like utilities stuff like that. And they could live in this hunting lodge and basically start their church, start their ministry. So at the age of three, I think it was when we moved there. And this was like a 10 bedroom hunting lodge hadn't been renovated since the 70s. So it was like orange and paisley wallpaper everywhere.

Like, I think the lady who had been taking care of it before lived in loaning like two or three of the rooms. And so like the heating barely worked. So I remember every year, my dad would like take a room and we'd redo it. For a while, they didn't plan a church, they kind of functioned more as like a B and B slash place where missionaries and like church groups could come and like have like retreats or have conferences and stuff. So it was funny this house

was so old it actually had like a servants entrance from the kitchen going up to like the servants quarters. And then it had like the main staircase going up to like the main bedrooms. And so we lived for the first couple of years in like the servants area. So we had our own little place to get places. And it was really weird having so many people around. And I remember my sister Hannah would get very possessive of like our things. I think probably because there are so many people and my mom would put us through drills where it would be like we're

sent a kitchen table and she says who's table is this and we'd be like well are she's like no Jesus is table who's fork is that ours no Jesus is fork and so we'd have to run these drills every morning with her because she didn't want us, I guess, to get max I think my sister once ran up to a group of missionaries that had come into our Private kitchen once and we're sitting and eating and she ran up to them. I was like, that's our table get away from here And she's like this two-year-old with like blonde curly hair So we yeah, that got us into saying our drills every morning What did that feel like?

It was weird. Did it make you feel like nothing was yours? Yes, we had very little that was ours, and we couldn't show any type of anything that could be perceived as selfishness. So like, if we were playing with toys and our sister wanted to play with a toy, you know, me or her, and the other one didn't like want to share, that was a big thing. It was instantly be forced to share. And that continued even growing up. Like we weren't allowed to ever close our doors. If anyone wanted to come into our room, they we had to let them, like we had no say in our lives. There was nothing we were able to really control. You're living with a bunch of strangers, basically, even though I'm sure you've got to know some of these people unknown to you, which is kind of a little bit interesting as a child

to be around a lot of people you don't know in your home. Very much so. And I think that's probably why me and Hannah became so close, like even now, it was the two of us against the world. And we were just such a little unit throughout my entire childhood. You had each other? Yeah, yeah. And it, I mean, it caused issues when other siblings came along, obviously, but for a while we were happy. Yeah, there wasn't, it was interesting. There was a lot of stuff that happened very early on. And then there was like a blank period.

And then it got really bad again. Like when we first moved to that home, I don't have many memories of the first moments there, but the memories I do have of are really, really bad things. I'm not sure what order these happened in, but I remember, like, we were just there. I think I was three and a half years old, and my parents were in a fight, just there, I think I was three and a half years old. And my parents were in a fight. And I don't know if I just got in between them or if I was trying to make them stop

or if I was just annoyed that they were fighting not paying attention to us, but I got in the way and my dad picked me up and walked me really quickly into another room and just from standing up through me down on the floor. And I remember just like being at like I level with him and all of a sudden hitting the ground. And I like bruised my coccyx like so bad like the tailbone like I couldn't walk up properly for a couple days. And he slammed the door and they

went back to fighting and I was just left in this room and it was like dark. I'm so sorry. I was just so stunned. I think when that happened. And did your mom do anything or say anything or? God no. No. Was your dad physically abusive to her as well? I think so.

I didn't notice it until we got older. I think so. I didn't notice it until we got older. The stories that I hear was, it was pretty much as soon as they moved back to Scotland, they started fighting and he says she hit him first. So he hit her back and apparently after that, it was like the gloves were off. And I don't understand that logic,

but I guess that's what he uses to make himself feel better. It's interesting. I think my mother had a lot of mental health issues, and I've often wondered if she was also on the spectrum or some sort of neurodivergency going on there. My mother and father really don't believe in that man's illness is a thing at all. As this kind of separation from them has happened, I've grown closer with her mother. And her mother, my grandmother told me that she when she was born, there were complications

and I think there was actually a minute where she wasn't getting oxygen to her brain. And the doctor said that there are going to be some issues growing up. And that she had a very hard time in school. She was very determined. And so once she decided she was going to do something, she was going to do it. But my grandmother was told by, I think, the school counselor or nurse, I'm not sure

that my mother had an inability to just do in-gwish between reality and a metaphor. And that was like, oh my goodness, like I even told my 13-year-old brother that and he was like that explains everything. Like she wouldn't let us watch Disney growing up because they had things like mermaids and witches and those weren't real and if you watched them, you would think they were real. And even as like a four-year-old, well, we know they're clearly not real.

But I think that was her not realizing that her inability to distinguish between that wasn't the same for everyone. It was interesting. My grandmother has always been portrayed by my parents has been very aggrents, Christianity, and hating that they found Christianity. And my grandmother told me last year that she said

your mother was like falling apart like in college and at one point she ran away and they just didn't know where she was and she was kind of living on the streets. And when she found Christianity, it gave her like a framework to hold on to and she kind of built herself back up around it. And I think that's part of the reason why she found her beliefs and it didn't matter what she wasn't letting go of them. And I think that's part of why she has still stuck by my dad because she found this belief that the two of them were destined to be together and they were called

and God was gonna use them in a certain way. And I even remember before all this went down and I was like begging her to like get out or do something like protect your children. She would like, no, like God has a plan. He's told me like, good, good things are going to happen. Like even then after years of all of this, like I, I don't think she's capable of letting go of that because if she does, she'll fall apart. But she was interesting. If she believed that she was right, we used to call her the Holy Spirit, like she was our Holy Spirit because she wasn't

going to let you go on with life until you like apologize for what she wanted you to. And so she was the type of person who, all even a lot of times, you know, when I know my dad was trying to control himself, she would back him into a corner and he would try to run away and she would be following him down. And I think that was probably why it took so long to understand how abusive they both were was because I didn't necessarily see my mother being this cowed woman that was being hurt.

I saw her as an aggressor and my dad snapping. It's difficult when both parties are abusive. And I can relate because both of my parents were both physically abusive to us as kids, to each other, and just toxic abusive emotional abusers as well. So I can relate and I understand the sentiment of like in some situations, both parties

are physically and emotionally abusing one another and the whole climate is just toxic everywhere and it's horrifying to grow up in. Yeah, well, and it was so normal at the time. And I think we, the type of Christianity we were raised in. Well, I can't even say the type of Christianity we were raised in because we were raised by our parents and we were homeschooled and we were never allowed out the house so they were the Christianity we were raised in but it was very much focused on We are the parents and you will respect us and we have all this authority given to us by God over you And we have to answer to God and I as the husband especially have to answer to God. So there was this idea that it didn't matter how much they may have snapped at us. It was our fault for being disobedient and we were reaping through repercussions of that. And it was their job to, you know, make sure that we didn't sin or grow up, you know, in a wrong way. You kind of got the sense that as long as

we were going to heaven, it didn't really matter what happened to us on earth. And as long as we were, you know, grew up into good Christians that didn't embarrass our parents, it didn't matter what happened in order to get us there. Wow. Were you at homeschooled your whole life? embarrass our parents, it didn't matter what happened in order to get us there. Wow. Were you in homeschooled your whole life? So I went to preschool for like a year or two, I think. And I remember that was weird. And I was definitely, I think I was pulled out of it because people could see definitely how strange I was.

Like I was the kid around Christmas that made every other kid cry because someone told us that Santa was coming to visit and I stood up and was very adamant. Santa wasn't real. Ah, ah, ah, ah. And I remember one of the most pivotal moments I think in my life and one of the times I remember the most was being in just like

a normal classroom. And one of my friends was talking to me, something about Christianity, and I said something along the lines of, oh, I don't know if I really believe that. And this is like a three or four year old. And I don't know if someone told my dad, or if I even told my dad, knowing me,

I probably felt so safe with him in a weird way. Like we just, that thing of like you have to tell me everything. And so you do, I think I might have told him that a weird way. Like we just, that thing of like you have to tell me everything. And so you do. I think I might have told him that I said that. And he said, well, you just denied Christ. And you could go to hell because of that. Because the Bible says that if you deny me in front of others, I will deny you in front of my father.

And you're, you're in danger of going to hell. Like it was fear, fear-based. And I think that is how they ran their lives honestly. They wouldn't say that, but I think fear definitely controlled a lot of what happened. At hell was pretty much like as much of a fixture in our house as the TV was. My parents from a very young age and even when I got older and had other friends, they were obsessed with getting people to understand how horrible and real hell was, so that they would look for something to save them from that. Like, that was the tactic. And so, I was horrifically terrified of hell from, like, that's as long as I can remember. And I have

memories from being like two years old and being terrified of hell and like that's as long as I can remember. And I have memories from being like two years old and being terrified of hell and having nightmares about that and to the point where you felt like you wanted to throw up because you were so terrified. Wow. They kind of were surrounded with a lot of like awful evangelical tracks and books and even like videos that were kind of geared that way. And so they would tell us about it, but then they would have all these visual depictions. And I've always had a very strong imagination. And so when I dream, I have these dreams where I almost slip into more of like a lucid type of dreaming, where I know I'm dreaming, but I can also like

almost slip into more of a lucid type of dreaming where I know I'm dreaming, but I can also like feel things so I can feel pain and all of that kind of meld it together for it to be a very real thing. I was always terrified of demons. My parents have always been obsessed with witches and demons and demons out to get them. Like you would be fighting with my mom and she would just suddenly looking be like, I don't like that tone. You've got a spirit of whatever in you. Like you're being controlled by a spirit right now. We need to pray and cast that spirit out of this house. I was often as a child and I'd get in trouble, put into a dark room. And I was terrified of the dark. I've been as terrified of the dark as long as I could remember. And we lived in this old house. It was huge. It was just us.

And my parents, I guess, when they moved in, there was some sort of furniture that they didn't like. And or that they thought had like demonic stuff on it. Basically, I think the person that had left stuff there, there was some like new AG type things in the house. And my parents basically took that, that they were worshiping Satan. So they always kind of felt like there was just presence in the house that they were fighting against and they weren't quiet about it. And so for me, I remember

at one point being terrified to the point of feeling like I was going to pass out to go up stairs just to change into my pajamas. And I would beg people to come with me and sometimes my sister would, but my parents never did. And it was like, well, if you're scared, that means you don't trust God enough. So you need to get up there and trust God. So I would go up and I remember I would go into the room, squeeze my eyes shut and turn until like it turned on the lights. And I was terrified to open my eyes squeeze my eyes shut and turn until I could turn on the lights. And I was terrified to open my eyes as I turned on the lights because I was scared I would see things like hiding, you know, like you turn on the lights and something

like flies into the closet or whatever. And that was so real and visceral for me at that age. Like I would quickly get dressed and then I would run down the stairs back to the limber room and I would just always feel like something was like trying to grab my ankle. Like it just felt like something was behind me the whole time. I think part of my very strong imagination and being able to like visualize something

to where I have a physical reaction to it is part of whatever autistic trait, you know, that I have that's on that spectrum. And so they believed in it so wholeheartedly. And my mother is South African and my dad grew up in South Africa. And so the idea of which doctors and people being kidnapped and their bodies used in like all kind of rituals, like that was the thing where they grew up. So for them, it was very much a very real thing.

And I think they even had a lot of fear of it themselves. It translated to us. and I think they even had a lot of fear of it themselves. It translated to us. So my dad had a very rough childhood and I think growing up hearing about how horrible his childhood was made us feel like ours was amazing. So he had a very rough childhood but he was basically a drug addict, alcoholic chain smoker. He says he was into satanism. I don't know if that's true or not. I think he had a very bad trip

and had a sleep paralysis attack, but basically he said he had this attack where his spirit guide attacked him and he was on the bed and he couldn't move and she was like climbing up towards him and He had just Spoken with a like evangelical street preacher that he had cussed out and ran away from a couple days before and so he you know called out the name Jesus and it disappeared and

He didn't sleep apparently for like three days after that and then went to church and Went up to the altar to get saved and the guy, the preacher came up to him, put his hand on his head, looked at him and said, Hmm. Okay, Satan, you're not having him anymore. And apparently after that, my dad was no longer drug addict and no longer alcoholic like that.

And I think it was at 100% the case of like, whatever happened in that moment, whatever he was relying on was instantly replaced by that face and that type of thinking. It sort of feels sometimes like trading one addiction for another? Yes. Well, and that was the thing. It was like, well, I was instantly set free from my drug addictions and blah, blah, blah, blah. And until, you know, much later, I realized, okay, but you weren't set free or healed from the emotional issues you had from your abusive father or the fear and the shame that you live your daily life out every day. And I think it was like in his brain,

he was like, why don't suffer from this anymore? So everything's good. And he never like actually took the time to grow as a human outside of that. And there was this whole subsection of Christianity around that time that we're trying to reach out to the hippies and the drugies and whatnot.

And they would literally call it your addicted to Jesus, your high on the spirit. And it was all this stuff about you were supposed to have similar situations and feel as if you were drunk or if you were high, but you was just on the spirit. And they, I feel like they took a whole generation of people who, you know, were using drugs for pleasure or to hide something and switched them over and basically,

yeah, took the pipe out of one hand and put the Bible and the other and never took the time to understand why were they using it in the first place. And it was, especially in the culture I grew up in, the more you could exhibit those higher drunk like behaviors in church, the more holy and spiritual you were. Can we talk about that a little more? Like I would love to hear some examples from you

once your parents actually started their church there and what the culture was like. Oh yeah. Yeah, so I remember as, I think just before we moved to being terrified in England, because I knew I had to invite Jesus into my heart, but in my brain, I thought they were gonna have to cut my heart open and put a little person inside. And I fredded about it for about six months, because I knew I had to do it, but I was scared because I thought it was gonna be painful. I thought it was gonna hurt. And so I was basically like this two-year-old kid trying to work up the courage to go and like

willingly put myself through that. And then when I did actually finally say the sinner's prayer, I was by myself, well, by myself, and it makes to see if like kids in this like Sunday school area and they were trying to get kids to say the prayer. And I remember kneeling and I put my head on the floor and said the prayer and I was just like, okay, this is it. And then like nothing happened.

And I remember being like so stunned. My parents were talking about like, oh, she was so excited. You could just see the difference once Jesus came into her heart and blah, blah, blah, blah. I think I was just high off the fact that I didn't have to go through open heart surgery without any anesthetic. Like I was so excited when I realized that I wasn't actually gonna have to like

go through this horrific experience. But that's how real that was and how much obligation we felt to go through with that. Thinking of telling my kids that there's like demons and shit in the house and them ever wanting to go to sleep

in their own beds ever again is like pretty slim. They don't even want to sleep in their beds as it is. I can't imagine if their hearts were and minds were conditioned in such a way to the point where you're like feeling sick to go be in a room and get your pajamas on.

Yes. You were terrified to do anything and then criticized for feeling that fear because you were supposed to understand that was all there but then not be afraid of that because you had Jesus and greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world. And you know, you have an angel right next to you. I'm like, cool, I can't see the angel and it's really dark. And I don't know what's going to happen. And I was naughty. And you keep telling me that if I'm naughty, I'm going to go to hell. So I don't know what to do.

It was a mind fuck. Such a mind fuck. This idea of like if you got yourself into position where you were terrified of demons and because they're going to take you to hell then what did you do that made them want to do that? And you know, it was always your fault. And then if you couldn't like calm down enough to go to sleep, it was your fault because you were trusting God. And it was just always the sense of shame and the sense of like, I'm so like fucked up and it doesn't matter how hard I try, it's not going to work. Like, I remember around that time where my dad told me that I was going to go to hell

because I told someone that I didn't know if I believed in God. I remember I would get scared and I just kept saying like the sinner's prayer again and again and again and being like, maybe I'm saved this time. Like, yeah. It's so harmful to your mental health and when your groundwork is being laid and that's the foundation, it's so harmful for your self identity

and your ability to trust yourself. Oh, no, you were not supposed to trust yourself. Well, and it was so well set up to control us. Like it's unbelievable thinking back because you were literally taught that it would use these Bible scriptures. We were taught what you have to read the Bible every day because if you don't, the world's going to fit you into their mold and the world's always trying to brainwash you. So why don't you already brainwash yourself of Jesus? Like that was what they used. Like they will only say yes for brainwashing you, but everyone else is trying to brainwash you. So we're just trying to control what your

brain washed with. Um, and so that that you had that idea in your head and so people would be like, oh, this is weird at all your brainwashed. And you were trained to be like, yes, I am, you know, and that's a good thing. There was so much like grooming and preventative measures that went into place that made it so it was like almost impossible to get out of by design. Yes. Very much so. Well, and I've noticed this thing in Christianity where they're obsessed with children appearing spiritual. Like it's this amazing thing. Like I know they have the verses where it's like a child chile, they leave them and out

of the mouth of babes and blah, blah, blah. And I saw all of these kids being, and me myself included being like this, you know, is how you're supposed to worship. And oh my gosh, it's so amazing if you're not embarrassed enough to raise your hands or speaking tongues or blah, blah, blah blah blah blah and so these kids would and they'd be like oh my gosh the spirit is moving amongst the children and as I got older what growing up I would never have those experiences naturally and so sometimes I would fake it and I would feel such shame and like hatred and and as got older, I began to realize,

well, no, we're just mimicking, because that's what I did. I mimicked. But I was an amazing spiritual kid. And oh, my goodness, my parents were so proud of me. And everyone would talk about how connected Jesus we were. So mind-washed, and in an environment that didn't teach them to think for themselves, that didn't even teach them to think, really, because you weren't supposed to think, because you were a fall in creation,

and even though you were saved, your body was still fall, and then the devil was trying to attack you every single day, and you had to listen to those above you, and be taught by those above you about Jesus in order to be good. So, if you had a thought that didn't agree with anything that you were being told, you were trained to say, oh, well, that must be the devil trying to talk to me. So your ability to think was eradicated almost. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental

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Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. And I remember from a very young age, my mom would say, you have to learn to speak in tongues because when you speak in tongues, you're speaking in the language the only god knows And so then the devil can't hear what you're saying and use it against you Like there was this very much this idea of the devil doesn't know what's going on in your in your head Only what you say and so you have to be very careful about what you say because then he's gonna take it and use it against you Which is also a great way to stop your kids

from telling people about what's going on in their house. They would always talk about getting into the upper throne room. And I've heard about growing up, you know, the seven or nine layers of hell, whatever, but they always had this like, like, layers of throne room. And so it was this idea that you would be so connected to God in

prayer that your mind would be transported into God's heavenly throne room while your body was still on earth and then it I guess if you were really good or he liked the way you were praying he would take you to the upper throne room. I don't know why he has so many throne rooms but they thought that. So this was like God's VIP rooms. Is that what's happening right now? And you would reach them? Yes. And it was like you, you were all here praying,

but this person legitimately was in heaven right now. Like they were face to face with God. And there'd be talks of, you know, they would start giggling or shaking. And they would come down. And it was like that you would have thought, like Justin Bieber just walked in the room, like they were so leopard, he's like everyone was like, oh my gosh, who would go?

My mother mostly. To the throne room? Yeah, my mother, some other people in the church. It was like, if you managed to make it there, it was like a big deal. And they would always criticize the other Christians in the town that we were with because they were quote unquote dead because they didn't believe in the gifts of the spirit. And when they prayed,

it was like, Oh, thank you, God, for this beautiful day I had and the walk that I went on and I saw this flower and I thought of you. And they would make fun of that. And I would make fun of that. And as I grew up, I'm like, that's actually a really sweet experience that that person had. And I can't believe that our entire church was almost centered around making fun of that. My parents were very heavily into what they called spiritual warfare. And I think a lot of evangelical churches have kind of graphs onto that or did grasp onto that. I grew up reading the Frank Peretti books, which was very much around the idea of angels and demons are always fighting and the more the church is praying or practicing spiritual warfare, the more we're energizing God and his angels to fight. And so that's how they beat the devil.

And so praying and tongues, my mom would say, you have to do that every day because you're strengthening your spirit. And it was like this workout you had to do to make sure you had a strong spirit. And so if I was feeling scared or if I was, you know, having issues, it was like, well, have you been praying in tongues? No, whether you need to do that more. The holy grail was like casting out a demon growing up. Like that was like the big, the big deal. But I never saw any of that growing up. Did you know, how did you know when someone had a demon? When my parents told us.

Like, your parents would decide somebody had a demon? Well, it was interesting because there was half of the church belief that you could be saved and still get possessed. And the other half believed that if you got possessed by a demon, you were never saved in the first place. So it's crazy as it sounds. There were people crazier than my family around at that time and they would often come into the church and get into fights with my parents about stuff. Most of what would happen was they would reach out to drug addicts to alcoholics in the

area and or someone who was depressed or whatnot and well they had a spirit of depression in them where they had a spirit of alcoholism or a spirit of drugs in them and that needed to be cast out. I remember them praying well hearing stories of them where they would talk about like how this person like prayed and like threw up, like mind throwing up, like this spirit out of them. And that I think is pretty common in those more magical circles, this idea,

like that's how you visualize yourself expelling it, which honestly, I think is probably more of like a psychosomatic reaction to feeling like there's something inside of you that you have to get out. And you mentioned about the darkness in your parents like putting you in the dark was that related to religion at all or the abuse tactic. I think that was just an abuse tactic. My mother was definitely the one who was more on the oki-koki side of that. I think my father is more just I know you don't like this. He'll get in there. It was definitely a thing that progressed as I got older. My parents planted their church with two ladies that were in our, I don't know inner circle people that

had become friends with us after removed and like baby sat us. And so we planted the church, it was just them. And I remember my parents talking about how everyone else in the area was out to get them all the other churches. And we'd always talk about how like, well, the non-Christian people love us. It's the safe people that don't like us. And you know, that means that we're just too Christian for them I guess. They were always obsessed with this idea of like they were the Pharisees and we were the good

Christians who you know weren't getting caught up in the religion of the law of the day like very much that kind of Billy Graham preaching to hippie things where it's like, I'm not preaching religion, it's a relationship, a very abusive relationship, apparently. But I think around that time, they kind of poached a couple other people from other churches and then other people started gravitating towards them. Usually people who weren't stable as a way to put it. And we had a lot of people who I think had really great intentions and kind of got sucked in by my parents. My parents are very charismatic, very charismatic, very likable. And we were adorable as kids, so that helped. We had people live with us,

sort of family that moved in with us. I think when we were like five, and they lived with us for a couple of years, and after that, they also started accepting, I think there were like Bible college students from the church in England who wanted to like intern, and so they would come with us for like three months or six months, and sometimes they would end up staying. So that was when kind of like more of the commune behavior started, where it was like multiple adults in this house and a lot of times it was like they were all given permission to discipline us and we had to call them Auntie and Uncle. I hated that.

We had to call everyone Auntie this Uncle that and I couldn't stand that, but we were like forced to, it was either Auntie or Uncle or Mr. and Mrs. and I think once people started living together was when my parents real desire to control things happened. That's when things got really bad again because all of a sudden there were people at home to see how naughty I was being or to see how disrespectful we were being or blah blah blah. But then also my parents, I think now that these people were living in their home,

became part of that circle that they had to control. And one of the weirder things that we saw looking back that I see happened again and again was my parents would become friends with a nice Christian lady. And then they would find a damaged male. and they would try to get them together. And when the lady said no, I don't like him or know like he scares me and the man left the church, it was that woman's fault. It was insanity. I mean, one of the two that started the church with us, she babysat us like she is someone that

I adore and some of my best memories from my you know childhood were not with my parents. It was with her. She's to take us to her home and we used to make blueberry muffins or she would fill her sink up with dish washing liquid and we'd like pretend that we were working in a restaurant. We were washing dishes and I don't know why we like that, but we did. She and a person in our church that lived with us for a while, we were very close with him. And he became like a second dad to us. And then all of a sudden my parents said, nope, you can't go near him anymore. We didn't want you playing with him. And I said, why? Like, what's going on? Like, this is uncle, you know, so and so we love him because he really was there for us when

our father wasn't. And they said, well, your dad's jealous. Your little sister called this other guy, dad the other day, and your dad's really jealous of him. And that was really hard. And Jesus didn't care about that. And Jesus didn't say, get out, jealous demon or anything. I'm just. I know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no would have different families or students and things, your parents would also begin, they would begin to control you and we had permission to discipline you and your siblings, you and your sister at this time,

but also your parents were sort of controlling them as well. So it was sort of like a chain of command. You kind of fell into this pecking order and a lot of times there would be fights and like I would walk into my mother having a screaming match with another woman. And it was, my parents were obsessed with this idea of people trying to claim their authority.

Or people were trying to sneak into the church and like ruin the church, or they were trying to steal it for themselves. And it created a lot of tension in the house. And for me, I remember the mother of the family that moved in with us. I felt like hated me and singled me out and got me in trouble whenever she could.

I don't know if that's true. And, you know, I'm actually pretty close with her now that we're out of all of this. And she says that was not the case at all. But at the time, that's how it felt. And I think I was probably feeding into the fight that her and my mother were having. Like, you know, they felt like they were trying to like take, rise through the ranks and take their places, leaders of the church. To the point where like my father would have to come stomping down and like separate them.

So there was a lot of conflict in the house. Oh yeah, always, always, always. So that was really hard. And I felt like I think I became more distant and more hashtag rebellious because of all of that. In a weird way, I think my autism saved me. I think my autism is the reason I did not turn into a drone of my parents, because part of the way my brain works is that I'm very much logical and A plus B equals C. And if it doesn't, that means one of these isn't either A or B. And the older I got, the more I began to see of how my parents would twist the truth to fit what they wanted it to in that moment. And I would fight against it.

And I was often labeled rebellious. My mom would use the verse where they talk about rebellion is witchcraft. And the Bible says that you should not suffer a witch to live. And so you're putting yourself in God's cross hairs by being rebellious And you know, he's gonna kill you So my mom and my dad would often like lose their temper and lash out at us But my mother was the one who really created the system of corporal punishment in the home She had this like tally system and if you got so many tallys like you were

spanks, like we were probably spanked multiple times a day. And when we got older and you know became more rebellious, she brought my father into the mix. And it's interesting because she was the one who pushed that not my father. My father would ignore it until he snapped and lashed out at you and hit you, but he didn't, I don't think he enjoyed the corporal punishment side of things. My mother seemed to thrive off of it. To the point where she, they would like make us wait outside the bathroom where they were spanking us, so we had to listen to the other one being spanked. My mom broke a wooden spoon over my back multiple times. Her favorite thing, she would always try to find like

the best influence. And she found this like long kind of rubber ruler. And she really liked that, which I mean essentially ended up being more of a cane. And you would go in and basically, you, my mother would sit on a chair and you had to bend over and hold on to her waist and she would basically hold you down and keep you there while my father snanked us. It was incredibly traumatic. I, to this day, but she was like, everything to her was a fight for control. She always treated us like you see depictions of people in the wild West how you have to break the horses, you know, will. That's how it was with us. It was a fight. And I had that sense from the moment that started of you were trying to destroy

me. And regardless of whether I did something wrong, I have to fight against you because I will like, lose myself if I don't. And so me and her went at it, from as long as I can remember, it was just battle after battle after battle. I got, hit worse than anyone else in my family because I could not keep my mouth shut. I could not just accept that I lost this round. You know, I could not be, I refused to be viewed as something I wasn't or to be

blamed for something I didn't do. And I got a lot of extra beatings because of that. The spanking became such a part of our lives. It was like woven into every single day. And my parents believed in it so strongly. My dad would always say like, all the governments have to get Christians and the governments have to do this and they're trying to stop them from spanking our kids. And, you know, I, I'll gladly go to prison for a

spark of spanking my kids, which it really feels like a full circle moment spare the rod, right? Yeah, well, and it was this thing of this, like you would always say, this hurts me more than it hurts you. And I have to do this because I'm going to stand in front of God one day. And I have to give an account for my actions. And it became this thing of like, this is your full and how dare you put me through this, having to do this to you. When I talk to like therapists and whatnot,

like they're always done by the amount of spiritual abuse. Like I always say, if my parents are just mean and hit me, I'd probably be a lot easier to deal with. But the amount of spiritual coercion and control and abuse that goes into it means you're never really mad at them because they're just doing what God wants them to do and they're trying to protect you. And so once this all falls apart, you basically like the person that you're serving is your abuser. And you're trained. I think that's why so many abusive people thrive in these environments because people are

trained in, you know, a lot of ways to live in an abusive relationship with, you know, their God, that they're worshiping. And so it's very natural for them to fall into other abusive relationships along the way. It's like they're carrying the abusive torch. Yeah. Like, I think things started off more normal and then around like six or seven, I think was when things got really weird. Next time. You're thinking of me, you don't know me well at all.

You're thinking of me, you don't know me well. Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Rees. Music by Gladrags. Thank you so much to each and every survivor for sharing their story. If you'd like to support the growth of the podcast, you can leave us a five star review on iTunes, support the podcast on patreon.com, share the podcast with your family and friends, or support our sponsors. Websites and resources mentioned on this episode can be found linked in the episode notes.

Follow me on Instagram at lookybo. L-O-O-K-I-E-B-O-O. Thank you so much. I never think of you The thing that no man Bet on no me Where? Where? Where? Where?

Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where?

Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? Where? You think you know me, you don't know me, you don't know me You think you know me, you don't know me well You think you know me, you don't know me well I'm a little be the only one

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