Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Nickelodeon

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Few pop culture phenomena have commanded such fierce devotion while hiding so many skeletons in their neon-colored closet. This week, Chelsea, Amanda, and Reese dig into Nickelodeon—not just as a childhood staple, but as a world built on loyalty, odd rituals, and unsettling secrets. From the hypnotic allure of The Kids' Choice Awards and the iconic green slime to the troubling revelations surrounding Dan Schneider and the exploitation behind the scenes, we’re breaking down how Nickelodeon crafted a universe that felt rebellious and freeing, while masking a much darker reality. Was the network’s quirky, anti-establishment vibe just smoke and mirrors? How does nostalgia shape the way we process these unsettling truths? Join us as we peel back the layers of an empire that shaped generations, for better or worse. Nick-Nick-Nick, Nick-Nick-NICK-NICK!  Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT You have got to take advantage of this brand new deal from Adam & Eve at https://www.adamandeve.com/cult   Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. I just cannot believe that this objectively revolting substance was able to be harnessed by Nickelodeon into something that little kids wanted to happen to them. Are you trying to say that the slime is an innuendo? It starts as some funny little penny t-shirts and some silly little foot jokes, and then it is straight up psychological trauma

for these actors. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montell, and I'm an author. And I'm your co-host Chelsea Charles, and I'm an unscripted TV producer. And I'm also your co-host Reese Oliver. Sounds like a cult's coordinator.

Every week on this show, we discuss a different zeitgeist-y group that puts the cult in culture, from tradwives to Stanley cups, to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our culty categories does it fall into? A live your life, watch your back, or get the fuck out. After all, not every culty-looking group these days is equally destructive.

Cultage influence falls along a spectrum. The point of this show is to analyze how fanaticism shows up in everyday life, to poke a little bit of fun at human search for meaning, and to critique how power abuse shows up in places you might not think to look. Like a cult of seemingly aspirational child actors drenched in green slime and secrets. We're talking Nickelodeon, the kids TV show network best known for its 90s and early 2000s hits, including All That, Kenan and Kel,

Clarissa Explains It All, The Amanda Show, Amanda police, Drake and Josh, Zoe 101,ains It All, The Amanda Show, Amanda Bleeves, Drake and Josh, Zoey 101, Are You Afraid of the Dark, Victorious, and iCarly, as well as animated series like The Rugrats, Hey Arnold, Doug, Catdog, ah, Real Monsters, Rocket Power, and Invader Zim. There are so many invaders. Iconic. If you haven't heard of BILT, it's time to get in the know. Rocket Power and Invader Zinn. There are so many of them. They're so iconic.

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JoinBuilt.com slash Colt to start earning points on your rent payments today. All right, Coltees, Valentine's Day, it's coming up. And whether you're single or partnered, it's a holiday that can come with a lot of pressure, but you know what can take the pressure off? Take an advantage of a brand new deal at adamandeve.com. All you gotta do is go to adamandeve.com slash cult and pick any four sex toys for just $20.

And it's a limited time offer. So you're gonna wanna get your toys while supplies last. And there's something for just $20. And it's a limited time offer, so you're gonna want to get your toys while supplies last. And there's something for everyone on there. That is, four toys for just $20, amounting to savings of up to $175. Take a look at adamandeve.com slash cult to see which toys could be yours. Go to adamandeve.com slash cult. Happy Valentine's Day. Before we jump into this beloved group this week, we would like to provide a little disclaimer that since this is such an expansive topic, there is truly no way we can get into every nook and cranny of it, but we will do our very best to dig in to the meat of the alleged

cult of Nickelodeon, y'all. Which were your favorite Nickelodeon shows growing up? And then I'll ask a cultier question after. Absolutely hands down, The Amanda Show. I was obsessed with her. I felt so seen. Yeah, tell me more about that, why? I don't know, because she was like quirky and strange.

I really, I resonated with that. Me too, her pronunciation of things was so peculiar. I really, obviously, Amanda, Amanda, I really felt very represented. Oh my God, in the late 90s, people would come up to me and be like, the Amanda Show, and I would, as a reflex, like on command, be like, my name is Penelope Tate, I'm Amanda's number one fan, please, like, without fail.

So good. You had to. What about you? You're of a different era of Nickelodeon. I am I watched a lot of the throwbacks, too I liked the Amanda show and all that a lot I've always been a comedy gal, but I Carly was the one that really came up with me It really shaped my comedic tastes. I think do you remember as told by ginger? Hell. Yeah, girl Hmm, Macy Gray. Did she also sing There Were Copper-Colored Ponies?

There were copper-colored ponies. Oh probably. You remember that song? Yes. And the air that smelled like rain. I think that was like my first folk song. I was like I am moved. Do you remember that episode? I have no idea why. I was like this is a cartoon character but I love As Told by Ginger. Truly. It was just- It felt realer than the others. It did. Yeah, it did. Okay, so there's obviously a lot of nostalgia

wrapped up in Nickelodeon, which is a part of this cult for sure. Off the top, first impressions, what do you think distinguishes Nickelodeon as a cult beyond other children's programming, like the Disney Channel or Cartoon Network. There is like a culty energy to Nickelodeon. What is that for you? I have a theory. Nickelodeon's humor has always been kind of adult humor for kids, more so than specifically kids engineered content. And we really see that starting with

like all that where it's like the first real sketch comedy show for kids and I think that kind of makes you when you're watching them as a kid feel like you're engaging in something that's maybe a little bit more adult than you should be watching but it's still technically made for kids so I think that contributes to its culty appeal. We're not like other networks. We make feet jokes. Yeah. Yeah, no. Actually, OK. OK, so I want to talk about this. I slid this topic onto our list for this season after this interview with Ariana Grande popped up

in my YouTube algorithm. It was like the Wicked Press Tour, of course. But I had never seen an interview where other child stars from her Nickelodeon days were explicitly asking her to comment on her experience with Nickelodeon in light of the documentary series Quiet On Set, which we will get to. This was like, whoa, you know, Ariana Grande, she has transcended. Like, she is pop star, star of the big screen.

Like, she wasn't interviewed on Quiet On Set, is my point. Right. But she was, like, pointed of the big screen. Like she wasn't interviewed on Quiet On Set is my point. Right. But she was like pointedly asked about it. And her answer was so careful and cautious and cagey. She's so well PR trained. It was that, but there was also there was a vulnerability in her eyes that made me feel like, huh, I wonder if she is not yet really

like comfortable talking about this in public. And like I wonder wonder if she is not yet really like comfortable talking about this in public and like I wonder privately if she's processed what happened to her because for those who aren't familiar she was heavily featured in the Quiet Onset documentary which details the abuses that some of Nickelodeon's adult professionals committed against children. She was involved with Nickelodeon during that time on the show Sam and Cat. Sam and Cat and Victorious prior to that. And Victorious prior to that. And her likeness was in the documentary because there are all these clips

of her performing jokes that were written into these scripts that watching it as an adult appear sexual. And I would like to comment that a lot of these scenes were available in like exclusive web content that you had to look outside of the Nickelodeon channel to access. Which suggests that the adults involved knew it was. Risqué. And being put there for someone to find. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, Whoa, you know,

obviously there was a lot of buzz surrounding Nickelodeon as a breeding ground of abuse when the Quiet Onset documentary came out. So throughout this episode, we are going to make repeated reference to this Quiet Onset documentary that came out on Hulu last year, just because it broke the news of some truly awful abuses that some of these

former Nickelodeon cast members endured when they were kids. I do want to say that some of the interviewees in the documentary, these former cast members, were not happy with how the documentary turned out. There were a couple of them who felt like their interviews were kind of misrepresented and that the angle of the documentary was more sensational rather than sensitive. I just wanted to put that out there because like there was a mixed reception of the treatment of this documentary, but we're still going to be referencing it because it broke a lot of pieces of news. But Chelsea, just kind of like first impression, high level, out of the gate. What feels especially culty to you about Nickelodeon? It's so funny that you went right into it, but I definitely feel like as an adult,

now looking back, I always felt my humor was a little bit more advanced as far as like being inappropriate. Inappropriate humor. And bathroom humor. And I feel like it came from my obsession at the time with Nickelodeon. Okay.

Yeah. Now looking back, that is culty in itself because how impressionable we were as children and our psyche is being warped by these execs who feel like it's appropriate to sneak in these very, very nasty little things. Yeah, like milk and a potato and shit. Just like unsavory things.

There's no reason you would need to portray that for any other reason than you're a sicko. Yeah, and I think the way to summarize it as like evidence of cultishness to me would be like, Nickelodeon always felt like a place that was uniquely special for kids. Where it wasn't like you were being talked down to. This is an exclusive kingdom for kids

where you can be freaky as a kid. And that's not gonna be discouraged. We have slime rituals. Like you get to be yucky and we're gonna like splat you with neon orange and like, bleh, like green. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah. It's green.

It's green. I watch Brain Surge religiously. Right, but the logo. Oh, yes. The logo is this like garish orange and the slime is green. It's like boogery. It's kind of tacky. Yeah, it's tacky, but it's like,

we are this transcendent kingdom where kids rule and grownups don't belong here. And to a kid, that sounds cool, but that's actually fucked up. Yeah. And the way that showed up was, on the production side, parents of kid actors were discouraged or forbidden from hanging out on set.

And then on the audience side, there was definitely this distinct vibe that Nick shows weren't shows you watched with mom were discouraged or forbidden from hanging out on set. And then on the audience side, there was definitely this distinct vibe that Nick shows weren't shows you watched with mom and dad. I remember feeling embarrassed when my parents would walk in the room when I was watching a Nickelodeon show because they were so fucking weird.

Like, ah, real monsters, that shit is so weird. Yeah. Yeah, SpongeBob was contraband in my house. My mom found him mostly because the voice actors she found really annoying, but also just the humor she didn't really approve of. She didn't let me read Junie B. Jones either because her grammar was poor. But that is to say, yeah, it's kind of like usually kids content is so

sanitized and educational and like trying to make you a good person. Nickelodeon's really like, who cares about being a good person? This is TV. We're going to have fun. Yeah, it's a place for you to be bad. And it only makes sense that this place where parents aren't important is also a place where abuses occurred. To me, 90s Nickelodeon was almost like

those classic 70s cults whose entire promise was like, old school Christianity, boring. Wouldn't you rather achieve transcendence by dropping acid? Nickelodeon basically said, PBS, snooze. Here you can be yourself. Come and join us as long as you leave the grownups behind. And if that's not the ultimate kid cult,

I don't know what is. So I guess the fundamental purpose of this episode is knowing what we know now about what was happening behind the scenes in the nineties and early two thousands. We can all sort of reckon with our nostalgia for Nickelodeon in a way that Ariana Grande didn't really seem to be able to in that interview that I saw. And also maybe we can discuss some ways that the entertainment industry in general might be able to make kids feel seen but also safe moving forward. Let's back up though, because this sounds like a cult episode. And we're gonna tell you a little bit of cult history of the cult of Nickelodeon.

Nickelodeon began in 1977 in Columbus, Ohio as a cable educational network for kids by Dr. Vivian Horner, an educator and director of research on the PBS series series The Electric Company. So it started off educational, okay? Mm-hmm. Good attention. So originally introduced as Pinwheel, the network later pivoted to more

entertainment-focused programming in 1979 and reintroduced as Nickelodeon. Fun fact, the channel's name comes from the first five-cent movie theaters called Nickelodeons. Oh, Nickelodeon. Fun fact, the channel's name comes from the first five cent movie theaters called Nickelodeon. Oh, Nickelodeon. On January 4th, 1988, Nick Jr. was launched that eventually grew into its own channel in 2009, introducing Dora and Blue's Clues to the little learners everywhere. Okay, I just want to say I I watched Nick Jr. for Far... Me too. Okay.

Because we just got a letter. Exactly. I was a little too old, but it was just... No, I did the same thing. Okay. Was Steve, was Steve? Steve was our guy. Was Steve hot?

No, yeah. Okay, obviously that haircut and that fit, like the green stripes were not hot, but like maybe it was just the intimacy. He was like really looking into the camera. He was. The first vlogger. That's not an original joke. You, you ran to the ball cut?

No. Okay, got it. But like he had a sex appeal nonetheless. Judging you just a tad. It's okay. No, okay. Everybody has, everybody has an objectively non-sexy. Oh yeah, well my first, one of my first celebrity crushes

was Spencer Shea, Carly's older brother. There's been conversation online lately, like he was supposed to be the next Jim Carrey. Is this an iCarly reference? Yes. Okay, sorry, after my time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get your head in the game, man.

Yeah. Ooh, Disney reference, can't do that. Oh, can't do that, not on this episode. No, let me be clear. Disney Channel is culty, I know for a damn fact. Yes. We've all heard Miley Cyrus talk about her experience, we know, but the vibes were so different.

That was not a kingdom for kids to be weird. No, no, no. Like- That was a factory and they never lied about that. Yeah, totally. And like, parents were on set., no, that was a factory and they never lied about that. Totally. And like, parents were on set. Billy Ray, he was the star of the show. Yes, he was. He said, let me get in there. Let me get in there. Let me get in there, Molly. All right. Let's hear more about the, uh, the cults within cults of Nickelodeon. All right. In 2002, Nicktoons was released, becoming the dedicated home for Nickelodeon's

iconic animated series. And then there was Noggin, an interactive educational brand co-created with Sesame Workshop, launching in 1999 to combine learning and fun. In 2009, Teen Nick and Noggin's mashup rebirthed Teen Nick, a channel for the high school drama, music videos, and the show that introduced Americans to the Champagne Poppy himself. Cue hotline. And they never apologized for that. No.

I used to get home from school and I would watch the Teen Nick Top 10 music videos. I loved those Like I'm it's like ooh Austin Mahone's on TV. Sick. Yes. Yes. Yes. No, but like and this is the thing It's like Nickelodeon was cool. As fuck. It was and I mean if it's Nickelodeon versus the D word I'm choosing Nickelodeon every time. Kind of same. Yes. Yeah Nickelodeon every time. Kind of same. Yes. Yeah.

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Okay, so here's the other culty thing about Nickelodeon. It was not just a network. It wasn't just this like parasocial thing where you watch your favorite actors on TV. It had its own IRL pilgrimage site. And when I first moved to LA and I drove by the Nickelodeon studios for the first time, I felt like I was driving by Mecca. I was like, oh my

brain. That orange, it really does, it like tingles something. No, exactly the same. When I first moved, I lived literally like a mile away and I was telling people back home like, just so you know, I live by Nickelodeon. Just never want to think about that. It was like a hallowed space. There was lore around it. Nickelodeon was worshiped. So once Nickelodeon entered those like glory days, it's heyday in the 1990s, it was promised to be kid heaven.

Any kid in the 90s who like wanted to be on TV, wanted to be on Nickelodeon. And that sense of like kid Mecca extended beyond the channel to real life. On June 7th, 1990, Nickelodeon Studios opened its gates and was dubbed the first world headquarters for kids. The studio was an attraction site for tourists and audience members of all the Nickelodeon live action programming. There were tours, live tapings, what I would have given to go to a live taping of the Amanda Show. Or all that. The dancing lobsters.

Oh my God. I still make the, I'm gonna slap you in the head with a fish joke. To this day. Oh my God. Yeah. Wait, well. Do y'all remember Moody's point?

Yes. Wait, wait, no. That was the Amanda Show's parody of Dawson's Creek. It was it was so good Does this ring any bells? My toe! Yes, it does. Okay. It was right after the girls Like okay when it was wrong it was really wrong If it was wrong, it was really wrong. But when it was right, it was really right. She was a fucking revolutionary.

She was. God, I hope, like, what is she doing right now? She is a nail tech. Oh. Yes. Sorry, not to be like ding ding ding. No, no, great. She's like stable.

Does she still have the face tattoo? Yes. Yeah, it's a tattoo. I really long to see, like, a Lindsay Lohan style come back from A-binds? I fully, fully agree. I think she's hopefully finding it in her own way. She seems to be enjoying doing nails. Yes.

I just wish her the best. I wonder if she knows, and I'm being hyperbolic about this, but I'm dead ass. I wonder if she knows the legacy that she has created. The inspo to all the little weird theater girls, I fucking love her. So, you know, do your nails, girl, but just so you know. Like, you're a comedic force

if you ever want to tie back into it. Literally. No, you're like absolutely right. She was so fucking special, dude. Yes. She gave us all permission, our whole generation, to make silly voices out of nowhere. And that's the gray area about this whole thing, because it's like the gray area of us having the permission to be weird, but it has some underlying being supervised.

Exactly. Surveilled. There's an ulterior motive. It's not just for kids to be kids. Exactly. Totally. I feel like I could detour into overanalyzing Amanda Vines at any given point in my life, but. Tell us more about the studio.

Yeah, back to the studio. So Nickelodeon Studios offered all these cool things, not least of which was, drum roll please, the slime geyser. So the slime geyser was, how do you want to say it? If Nickelodeon is Christianity, slime is the blood of Christ, okay? So the slime geyser was unveiled on the studio grounds on October, October? October, yes. That's a month now. We're creating it? What is time? What month is it? No, it's October. It's called October now.

It is. Okay, this is how history changes. It was October 27th, 1990. Now, there was a whole unveiling ceremony of the slime geyser. A towering 17-foot fountain spewing vibrant green slime, a fan obsession synonymous with the Nickelodeon brand. I cannot think of Nickelodeon without thinking slime.

Did y'all ever wanna be slimed? A little bit. I grew up watching Brain Surge, like I mentioned earlier, and Brain Surge was a game show and there was a lot of punishments involved for the contestants, a lot of which involved gross things that were supposed to emulate bodily fluids. There was a slide that looked like an ear that you would slide out of and there was

pus in it. I remember that. Yeah. People were always getting slimed on Brain Surge. Part of me was like, I would want to make it through the show without getting slimed, but it also feels like a rite of passage. A rite of passage, which cults famously have. I never wanted to be slimed because again,

I think subconsciously, even when I was a little kid, I knew that there were grownups behind this. And that seemed wrong. Mean. Mean. You know, if it was like kid on kid slime. You know what? Nobody Googled that for me. I love the way your mind works.

Yeah, because I don't want to be slimed by an adult. No, like actually. World kids headquarters and you're going to slime me as an adult? Yeah. Like a power dynamic. Oh my god, yes. You know?

But slime really was this cult ritual in the world of Nickelodeon. And these were its origins. Green Slime made its debut on Nickelodeon during the Canadian sketch comedy show, You Can't Do That on Television, which began airing on the network in 1981. And as Nickelodeon grew,

Green Slime became emblematic of the brand, featuring prominently in shows like Double Dare. Double Dare. Ugh, well, freaking Double Dare. And special events Ugh, little frickin' Double Dare. And special events like Nickelodeon's Kids' Choice Awards cementing its place in pop culture history. That is interesting though, like how if you won a Kids' Choice Award, you got slimed.

So it was like a little pain with your pleasure. And if I remember correctly, I think sometimes people got slimed that didn't even win. So there's no no ram or reason. Just whoever would be funnier. Can I tell you guys a little fun fact? I have attended a Kids' Choice Awards. I got a t-shirt from the Canon.

I met one of the Real Housewives. I don't remember which one in the audience after, but it was very culty. It was just like this sea of little children and like they're very stressed out parents. And at the time I was aging out of Nickelodeon, so I was really able to kind of see it from like the in-group and the out-group, where from within it I was like, oh my god, we're a bunch of kids and I've been watching this show on TV for like 10 years. This is so crazy. But then the aging part of me is like, wow, I kind of feel like I'm in a big McDonald's

play place and this all feels really orchestrated. I think with franchises like the Kids' Choice Awards and Nickelodeon Studios and the sliming or whatever, Nickelodeon was really masterful at creating a sense of escapism, like this world that was run by different rules, which is very similar to how certain actual cults operate. Nickelodeon launched its iconic award show in 1987 as another ceremonial world-building exercise that kind of blended the world of adults with the world of kids. You know, it's like this is like the freaky slime-drenched Oscars of kids shows, which was so cool and aspirational and competitive. And there was all kinds of like high-falutin language that went along with this ceremony.

The award itself was called the blimp. Celebrities who were tied to Nickelodeon were referred to as Nickelodeon fam or celebrity kids, elevating them to this mythical status that I know for a fact, when I was little, I would have given my left breast bud to be on a Nickelodeon television program. It really does beg an interesting question about the ethics of brand building for a children's entertainment network because like these pieces of cult iconography and rituals from the, you know, Nickelodeon t-shirt cannon to the slime to the orange splat, they work. But children are so much more impressionable and vulnerable to that cult marketing than adults. And so I really think that if you're working for a kids network, you have to have like an extra level of awareness of how much power and influence you have over kids. Because people can orient their whole identities around

an entertainment brand, even when they're like old enough to be able to critically think. Slime's a little nefarious now. Yeah. To that same point, I think we're missing something about the slime motif, I kind of see it as something like a humiliation ritual aimed at manipulating followers under the guise of kids just having fun. A lot of cult-like structures use these humiliation rituals to kind of foster a sense of belonging. The slime plays into that.

And when I thought about this, I was thinking about like in Greek life culture, right? And fraternities, all the hazing. And from what we know, the outside hazing. Oh, drink all this beer or I don't know. I read one that was like stick this keg thing in your butt. And I'm like, this is all like humiliation. Yeah, and oftentimes like kind of sexual.

Which is very strange. That is such a good point. I had never thought about slime as a humiliation ritual that's sort of subconsciously there to establish a power dynamic. Like we are fucking in charge, but also once you do this, and once you experience that breakdown,

then we will build you up and you will be accepted. Yeah, like we'll let you run around and be grubby little kids, and we'll give you a place to do all of that and let all your sillies out, but if you're gonna be gross and grubby, then you get slimed, ha ha. And it's like, okay, I guess I'm getting slimed.

It's very manipulative when you put it that way. And I think it also sort of teaches some sketchy lessons about consent in a way, because in between all the hype surrounding, you know, this euphemism of getting slimed, it seems like there was never really a chance to stop and question if you actually wanted it. Yeah, so in an old Reddit thread, one user adds, my 15 minutes of fame is having hot slime accidentally poured on me in this building.

I was eight and it was my first and only sliming. So I didn't even know something went wrong until 30 years later, when the Gackmaster at the time went on TikTok and shared the story of how some poor random kid was slimed with hot slime because of the mix-up. Friends connected me with the story and thanks to some family photos,

I was able to verify that it was me and gave TikTok a crazy full circle story. Oh, hot slime. I mean, I think I read once it's made out of oatmeal and applesauce amongst other things. So like, definitely gross, but I think I'd rather have warm oatmeal than like cold oatmeal poured on me.

I just cannot believe that this objectively revolting substance was able to be harnessed by Nickelodeon into something that little kids wanted to happen to them. The act of being slimed really was this initiation into Nickelodeon's culture. It is confounding to me when I back up and take a look at it that little kids, such as your wee self, Reese, wearing a little backpack and some glasses, were looking at the screen and being like, an adult to like douse me in rancid applesauce so that I can be accepted by the headquarters for cool kids. It really does feel like an exchange of public mortification for inclusion in the Nickelodeon family kind of reframing that humiliation as a moment of pride and connection, which so, so very much mirrors initiation rituals in cults

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No purchase required. Codes available until March 3rd. Enter codes by March 24th. Chances of winning based on code entry time. Rules in app. So we've talked a little bit about the general Ick vibe at Nickelodeon and the people orchestrating this vibe. But of course in every cult there has to be a special someone at the very top. And if you have seen the Quiet on Set documentary that aired this last year,

I am sure you are more than well aware that the cult leader in this case is the one and only American television producer and screenwriter, Dan Schneider. He created and produced several, several shows on Nickelodeon from 1994 to 2019. That's like my entire existence, including I, Carly,, Straykin, Josh and Zoe 101. Dan, before his recent fall from grace, was previously known as the high priest of Nickelodeon studios, beloved and well regarded for his TV creations. He was responsible for this renaissance at Nickelodeon in the mid 2000s. More recently-

The one that defined your girlhood. Yeah, the one that defined my girlhood. Yeah, the one that defined my girlhood. Thank you, Dan Schneider for showing my entire sense of humor and also being like one of the worst people I've had the displeasure of hearing about in the past year. Get you a man who can do both. And that's on cult leaders. That's on cult leader. More recently, Dan Schneider has come under fire for allegations of exploitation and mistreatment

of young actors, to put it very kindly. That Quiet On Set documentary I mentioned earlier explored the inappropriate behaviors of Dan Schneider, who really exhibited some awful, controlling, verbally abusive behavior on these sets. And he even scripted some scenes featuring some children in really gross situations, really suggestive situations like we were talking about earlier. And one culty thing about that for me is that he really played favorites. And other cast members in these various shows noticed that. And even though he created this culture of fear, and even though he was verbally abusive, and even though he was putting kids in these suggestive scenarios that made them uncomfortable

by their own admission on later reflection because he was so powerful and because he was being lauded as the high priest of Nickelodeon, as you put it, this visionary who brought all these iconic shows to the network, they still wanted to be in his good graces, even if it meant being sort of abused or manipulated or mistreated in this way. Why is he giving black swan? Like why are these little eight year olds, these tortured artists that feel they have to suffer for the craft of kid sketch comedy?

Like that's never that serious. But a cult can spring up around absolutely anything, including something as stupid as like an innuendo and some slime, you know? Ew. Because it wasn't really about that. Fame is so valued in our culture, it's more valued all the time.

And I feel like that idea of like every kid wanting to be famous really started here in this era. And you would be willing to sacrifice a lot your whole childhood to be a star of Nickelodeon. Yeah, you turn on your TV when you're a little kid and it's just all of these kids that are a little bit older than you having so much fun. They're wearing these t-shirts with these fun little slogans that don't exist anywhere else. They all have their matching like pear-shaped

technology. Like it really feels like this utopia. And even though all the shows in Nickelodeon are a little different, they all have this like Schneidery touch to them that I think is that same icky feeling I mentioned earlier as being, like, the culty thing about Nickelodeon. But it starts as some funny little penny T-shirts and some silly little foot jokes. And then it is straight up psychological trauma for these actors.

I just had a little bit of a Eureka moment. And I want to ask you about something that you just said. psychological trauma for these actors. I just had a little bit of a Eureka moment and I wanna ask you about something that you just said. You said it started with slime and innuendo. Are you trying to say that the slime is an innuendo? Yeah. I mean, in the Quiet On Set documentary, they pointed out how there were a lot of moments

in various Nickelodeon shows when some sort of like gooey icky substance would get shot onto the face of an actor on screen. And they called it like a cum shot. So like, I mean, this is so fucking gross, but like what is getting slimed other than like, maybe the most massive cum shot. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I think it just goes to show how hidden in plain sight all of it is.

That is so clear. And I think all the adults watching Nickelodeon probably realized that at some point subconsciously, but still never really thought twice about turning on the channel for their children. Dan Schneider as a cult leader was preying on that same obliviousness from the parents as he was from the actors and actresses whom he was slaming. Yeah. And it was so sort of calculated of him to set up the vibe at Nickelodeon as an exclusive place for kids as an excuse to prevent potential witnesses of abuse, aka the parents, from being present. It made sense in the logic of Nickelodeon's

world or cult for them not really to be there. And in the end, what came of that was like a nightmare beyond what anyone could imagine. Especially, I think that pressure is so large to keep quiet about things like that for any child, but especially as one that is a public facing who, even if you are on an edgier network like Nickelodeon, is expected to be a very wholesome public figure. And that pressure can really lead to a lot of lasting psychological effects for these actors. A lot of them have come out in their adulthood after their Nickelodeon days to speak about the long-term psychological ramifications of being in the limelight at such a young age. You were talking about Ariana Grande earlier. She's one of them, obviously. So Ariana Grande's Sam and Kat co-star, Jeanette McCurdy,

published a 2022 memoir called I'm Glad My Mom Died. Fantastic read. And in that memoir, she detailed a lot of the emotional abuse she endured on the set of iCarly. In that memoir, she alleged that a male producer offered her alcohol when she was underage and gave her an unsolicited shoulder massage. McCurdy also claims that Nickelodeon offered her $300,000 to remain silent about her experiences, which she declined. Good for you, girl. A couple more of them were Alexa Nicholas. She's like really vocal about the abuse she's endured at Nickelodeon. She protested outside Nickelodeon's Burbank Studios in August 2022, alleging that the network failed to provide a safe work environment for her and other child actors.

Nicholas called for the network to address these issues and release former employees from non-disclosure agreements. Arguably, the most shocking story that came out of this Quiet Onset documentary was that of former Drake and Josh star Drake Bell. Drake Bell's life over the past decade has been really interesting to watch as someone who grew up watching Drake and Josh. He is like fully a Spanish music artist who goes by Drake Campana now. So he's kind of like amongst kids my age where I was kind of like, hey, that's a little kooky. I wonder why Drake Bell like fell off the face of the earth and now only makes Spanish music. That's weird. In Quiet On Set, Drake Bell opened up a little bit about his past and it kind of helped to piece together why he might have

created some distance between himself and the Drake Bell that everyone knew and grew up with. In Quiet On Set, Bell recounted being sexually abused by Brian Peck, his dialogue coach and an actor employed by Nickelodeon. Bell says, the abuse was extensive and it got pretty brutal. I really don't know how to elaborate on that on camera. Why don't you think of the worst stuff that someone could do to somebody as a sexual assault and that'll answer your question. I don't know how else to put it. Peck pleaded no contest to two charges and was sentenced to 16 months in jail in 2004. It's about as bad as it gets. And the culture of fear and inability to dissent or bring in outside witnesses in the form of parents, that culture that Dan Schneider created is

what gave way to Brian Peck being able to get away with these abuses for so many years. I remember in the documentary, some of the most heartbreaking moments were the interviews with Drake Bell's dad, who got the sense that there was something off and bad about Peck from early on and was just kind of like gaslit and ignored. And just knowing that his suspicions were correct, I think it'll haunt him forever. Um, was Drake Bell also guilty of sexually assaulting someone? Yeah.

Trauma begets trauma. So I'm just gonna leave this headline here. Drake Bell, former Nickelodeon star, gets probation for child endangerment. The little blurb is the former star of Nickelodeon's Drake and Josh pleaded guilty to attempted child endangerment and disseminating matter harmful to juveniles in June of 2021. I do remember that. No, the whole story like start to finish and everyone who was victimized. It sours those nostalgic feelings of Nickelodeon so much. Yeah. And this still isn't even the whole story of the scope of Nickelodeon's cultishness. So sexual innuendo is not the only nefarious thing

at Nickelodeon. Despite being a progressive media powerhouse, several accounts have alleged that Nickelodeon lacks cultural diversity in their programming. In an article in People Magazine, Kiki Palmer, known for her role in True Jackson VP, discussed feeling marginalized as the Black girl on the network, noting that she wasn't included in the same conversations as her white peers like Selena Gomez or Miley Cyrus. She highlighted the limitations placed on her due to her race, which affected her opportunities and visibility. The brand tried to

rectify these accusations by releasing a diverse cast in Avatar, The Last Airbender and The Loud House. However, the general audience consensus was that it felt long overdue. Those are both cartoons. Neither of those even have real people of color in them. Which is funny because I feel like Nickelodeon really got a lot of their clout from black comedians like Keenan and Kel 1000%.

Which Keenan I still watch to this day on Saturday Night Live. What a long career. The time of his life on Saturday Night Live. Like what a long career. The time of his life on Saturday Night Live. And I like, he's the one cast member that I'm like, everyone else, I feel like you can go do something else. Keenan, no, you're locked in buddy. My brother as a kid became obsessed,

nay addicted to orange soda because of Kel. Cultural impact. I also looked at some of the voice actors in the Loud House because obviously they had an initiative to bring more people of color on these screens. And there was no diversity in the voice acting. Shut up.

Oh. Which I found super interesting. Wait, you're kidding me. No. The house is being real quiet about that. Damn. So as I was reading the article that featured Kiki Palmer specifically, I was thinking

about my own experience working in television, but I obviously I work in unscripted and I think this is extremely frustrating to hear that this was happening 20 years ago, but it's also still happening today. So there hasn't been much progression. And when you see these TV shows and they have all these initiatives to diversify the cast members, rarely ever is that reflected behind the scenes. So rarely ever do you see, yes, okay, there are indigenous people, there's Asian representation,

but when you go in those writers rooms and those producer spaces, usually there's one that kind of fits the box of every single thing. And you think about your post department, after we filmed it and it goes to post, some of the jokes and the nuances in conversation, they kind of miss the mark because you don't have that representation in post.

And then you think about on an executive level. There are rarely any execs in these spaces that, I don't know, just... No checks and balances. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, that reminds me of one detail that we haven't mentioned yet from the Quiet On Set documentary, which sent shivers down my spine.

Every single person in those writers rooms was a white man and when they finally welcomed two women into the writers room they offered to pay them one salary for both of them. All the while like Dan Schneider was forcing them to give him massages and shit and so thinking about that behind the scenes and that they're like trying to create more diversity in this animated show, I think it just speaks to the exclusivity

and like gaslighting that were present in every nook and cranny of Nickelodeon. And again, that no one could push back against. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's why I'm just, I feel so optimistic about Gen Z, just because there's so much more visibility in different subgroups and subcultures, and even the visibility with things like

Quiet On Set documentary and the Barney documentary. You're seeing all the things that were fucked up during the millennial childhood. And now I feel like we have Gen Z, I mean, I know that's a lot of pressure, but Gen Z in these spaces where they are not afraid to talk about these things. And I just find that so admirable.

And it makes me feel like in this new wave of streaming content, whatever, I feel like it's going to be a whole new world. Yeah. Gen Z bullshit thresholds are a lot lower. Yes. We had a higher tolerance for bullshit, not like naturally, but just because of where we were in history and time.

Yes. I think. Gen Z gets socialized with a lot of bullshit from a very young age. So the bullshit censors become very finely attuned very early. Yeah. And sometimes they go too far. Yep. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Sometimes something's not bullshit. No. Let people enjoy things. Some of y'all are haters all the time about everything. Definitely not us having a podcast where we call everything a cult. No,

we're not haters. No, no, no. We are cultural critics. Yes, this is cultural criticism. So it is famously difficult to arraign a cult leader, to translate the psychological abuses that they commit into a crime that is persecutcutable and even when that happens sometimes the cult prevails But it kind of seems like once Dan Schneider disappeared Nickelodeon's cultishness Deluded yeah, so Nickelodeon did ultimately dethrone its leader, Dan Schneider, but not until the Me Too movement in 2018, which was

like way after Drake Bell's abuser, Brian Peck, was sentenced to prison in 2004. To kind of wrap up that story, Peck was incarcerated for less than a year and get this, after he got out, he was immediately hired on another kids show sweet life of Zach and Cody on Disney Channel little cult hopper and that was allowed to happen in part because two of the Amanda Show's directors had written character letters in support of Peck slimy grody stuff clearly there were like a lot more adults in the cult of Nickelodeon who did not respect any of the children they worked with the way that the brand promised to. And I would count the hypocrisy as not only dangerous, but also heliculti.

So what is the status of Nickelodeon content right now? Dan Schneider is no longer involved. You know, this documentary came out and threw so many people for a loop. What is going on with Nickelodeon these days? Do we know? I don't think, they still have the cute toys on, they are on Paramount because I watched SpongeBob on Paramount.

I think that's very interesting that like, we're vaguely aware that Nickelodeon still exists. But nobody gives a shit. I can't name a single, I mean, I'm also an adult woman with no children, but I can't name a single, I mean, I'm also an adult woman with no children, but I can't name a single Nickelodeon show that's on the air currently. It doesn't seem to have the same place in the zeitgeist that it used to. Like, okay, what's airing on the Nickelodeon actual like cable network today is reruns

of the Big Bang Theory reruns of Friends reruns of Modern Family reruns of SpongeBob reruns of the Big Bang Theory, reruns of Friends, reruns of Modern Family, reruns of SpongeBob, reruns of Paw Patrol, and more reruns of SpongeBob. And then like a movie. Is that not insane? That's crazy. It's like really dead. I honestly had no idea. That is interesting because like in the 90s and early 2000s, it was culty for better and culty for worse.

Well, when your followers are kids, they grow up. Yeah, that's fair. And then when Dan Schneider is no longer in charge, like sure it's the same cult, but it's not the same cult leader, you know, the je ne sais quoi is gone. The je ne sais cult. The je ne sais cult. Oh, I want to see it. Yes, because the allure that's attached to these cults is all about the leader. It's all about the leader.

It's all about the personality. He's the person that's selling it. And so he had this larger-than-life personality on set, and the thrill is gone. Yeah, it's not Schneider's bakery anymore. That was his little production tag at the end of all of the shows. Well, that just goes to show how some cults, at least the cults that we discuss on this show, thrive leaderless. The cult of Harry Potter, the cult of Gilmore Girls. I'm naming other entertainment cults because there was enough connective tissue and enough just like fodder there for the cult to exist without the vision of the leader.

But that's not true here, which really shows kind of the fragility of Nickelodeon as a brand. Nickelodeon was only really a cult as I'm understanding it in this moment when Dan Schneider was at the helm. Yeah, now there's a mass deconstruction, if you will, and it feels like the way in which its members are engaging with it now is through like a critical lens and through things like Quiet On Set and like video essays online made by like people my age who grew up watching Nickelodeon because there's not new episodes for us to watch or new content for us to engage in.

So all we can do is watch what we grew up with. And when we have adult eyes now and we watch that old content and we see all the things, all of the... I don't want to say dog whistles, but all of these things that were like left in plain sight for the adults to see and for the kids to be complicit in and it makes you feel kind of used. Okay, I think we've explored the many corners of this cult. The nostalgia, the little cultural artifacts, the fucked up stuff that went down. We're prepared for our verdict, I think. Chelsea and Reese, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out.

Which category do you think the cult of Nickelodeon falls into? It's giving get the fuck out. How about you? I guess it depends if we're talking about Nickelodeon today or Nickelodeon of yore. I think Nickelodeon as it exists is getting the fuck out itself. It's dying. Yeah, it's a deflated blimp. Yeah, literally.

Yeah, I think Nickelodeon in its heyday, oh, canonical get the fuck out. So powerful, so influential, so gross, so exploitative, not worth the good stuff, right? But once Dan Schneider left, it kind of disappeared. And so, right, like, was this a stupid topic? Like, it's kind of over. It's clear, it's clear.

And I mean, also, I feel like the reason why this is such a gray area for me is because I am thinking about the human beings who were kind of fucked over and used as collateral damage in this entire cult, because it is, okay? And I think about Amanda Bynes today, and I think about Drake Bell today. And yes, he was accused of doing horrible things,

but hurt people hurt people, and that is a learned behavior. And I say get the fuck out because, yes, they are a part of the Nickelodeon legacy, but at what cost? You know, it's sad. Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, former Nickelodeon child stars, some of them have like the saddest downward spiral

of any former child star I can really think of. Like Miranda Cosgrove, who is like the most normal person to ever exist, I think, and I mean that as a compliment, Miranda, I love you. She was like stopped and held at gunpoint by just some rando watching this show. Like Nickelodeon just so transparently doesn't care about any of the children they employ. I mean, I guess just to put it bluntly. And I think what's interesting about that is that while they're not an active cult at the moment, they really serve as a guidebook for like,

exactly how not to make kids media. Moving into like the influencer era, I think it gives us a really good frame of reference to be like, okay, these are the kinds of things we should look out for. Like in the context of family vloggers and stuff like that. That is a good point and I was thinking of it earlier. Oftentimes, when you think of who has power in Hollywood

or who is committing exploitative acts or whatever, you think of the front-facing people. You think of actors like Armie Hammer, or you think of celebrities, at least I do. And it is not that often that you get to hear a story this detailed of an executive being brought to justice, sort of. I mean, like, some justice was achieved in the wake of these crimes. I would argue not enough, and I think a lot of other people would argue that too. But like, it is this cautionary tale about where to look in terms of an entertainment cult.

We're oftentimes looking at people on screen, we need to be looking at the people. No, look at the spotlight operator. Yeah. Look at the gaffer. I'm kidding. No. Well, maybe, I don't know.

But it's like, there are so many people who work on TV shows, you fucking know. There are people whose jobs I don't even understand. There are so many jobs that adults have on a film or TV set. And when kids are at the center of a project, we just have to treat them with kid gloves. Like you have to just like default to assuming that like, if like measures are not being taken to create the safest, safest, safest possible environment, cult abuse could occur. They're kids.

Yeah. Fragile little lumps of clay. Little, little lumps. Little lumps of slime. Sweet little lumps of slime. Damn, well, that's kind of like a downer, but I think it's an important conversation to have. Like, we are an entertainment-driven society, and like, I don't know, I remember talking about this

when we did our Cult of Child stars episode where it was like, what is the solution here? Do we just like get rid of child actors and just have all... No kids content with kids in it. Yeah, but like, do we just go to animation only? You know? I think that there needs to be some positions

that are created on set. Obviously there are set teachers, but those are kind of like warped into the world as well. But there needs to be like an HR... Child coordinators. Child coordinators. Like there are intimacy coordinators. I was just about to say, like now they're

introducing the intimacy coordinators, which was long overdue, honey. But yes, if we're going to still have these children on set and potentially expose them to some nasty behaviors. We need to have someone that can kind of be a barrier wall. Totally, I was just actually talking to a friend the other day. This friend of mine is a therapist

and they want to pursue a career as an on-set therapist. Because first of all, even if you're an adult, acting is stressful. You're sometimes embodying characters who are experiencing trauma and whatever, and that's in your body, even though you're playing someone who's made up. And we had a joke about this friend of mine, like, theropizing method actors and characters. But on the real, how the fuck is it not customary for

there to be child therapists on the set of child's TV shows? Yeah, cuz those are a thing to my understanding, like relatively frequently on unscripted TV sets. And I think with child year content, as a child actor, so much of your role in the show is to be yourself, to be a child. So when it's also tied to your self-worth as an individual like that, in the same way that it is for reality TV participants, I think it's interesting they're not treated with the same precautions. Yeah.

Well, the last thing I wanna know is, do you know where I can get my nails done by Amanda Bynes? I don't, but if I did, mine would have already been done. I will be meeting you in the girls' room. The girls' room. Hooray. I'm sorry. I will be meeting you in the girls' room. Yes. Hooray. Well, that is our show.

Thank you so much for listening. Join us for a new episode next week. And as always, stay culty. But not too culty. ["Souls of the Dead"] Sounds like a cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of The PodCabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell, Reese Oliver, and Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cold.

If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you liked this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network, Studio71.

And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. Calling all magical over thinkers in the Vancouver area, big announcement for you, you are invited to come spiral with me in person for a one night only live show at the Just for Laughs Festival in Vancouver, Canada on Friday, February 21st at 7pm. This live show is called the Big Magical Cult Show and it is so much fun. Not only does the show involve a deep dive analysis of parasocial relationships and celebrity worship, kind of like a magical

overthinkers episode on steroids, but there are also magical elements like drag and burlesque performances, brilliant special guests, custom overthinker merch and drinks. I mean, who wouldn't want to sip on a cocktail called the French 75 Reasons can't sleep at night, am I right? There will also be a book signing, a meet-and-greet, and some truly over-the-top surprises that honestly can't be explained. They just have to be experienced. Tickets are available now at AmandaMontel.com slash events and make sure to snag one before they're sold out because this is gonna be an intimate little gathering just for us OverThinkers. The big magical cult Show is coming to the Biltmore Cabaret in Vancouver

for one night only on February 21st, and I hope to see you there!