Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Sephora

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Calling all beauty ~insiders~ 💄👽 Prep your prayer, ahem, swatching hands and scrounge together your hard-earned points, because we are kicking off 2025 with one of society's most glamorous everyday cults: Sephora. From 6th graders worshiping at the altar of retinol to 35-year-olds going to inexplicable lengths to maintain their VIB status, Sephora followers are undoubtedly held in the vice grip of this cosmetics boutique-turned-billion-dollar beauty mecca. Sephora’s black-and-white walls provide a sanctuary for makeup and skincare fanatics, but look between the fruity-scented snail goop and $50 eyeshadow duos, and you might just find some unexpectedly sinister influence at work 👀 Tune in as all 3 of your favorite beauty queens, Amanda, Chelsea, and Reese, ~unbox~ one of our favorite cult analyses yet! Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey culties, it is your host Amanda here. As excited as I am to share with you this debut episode of our 2025 season, also all that I can personally think about right now is the fires that are currently ravaging Los Angeles. Sounds Like a Cult is an LA based team. I've lived in LA for 11 years. It's home. And while each of us on Team Sounds Like a Cult is currently safe, either evacuated or in a relatively okay area of town, it has been beyond words, heartbreaking, shattering, surreal to see how many of my friends and family members have lost everything in these fires. I also wanted to express humongous gratitude to the firefighters and first responders who are risking their lives to keep these fires contained, including firefighters who aren't being compensated nearly enough for the work that they're doing out there. A few of you culties have emailed

us to express your concern and well wishes and that really means a lot to us. And if anyone listening is moved to and able to contribute to some of the efforts to combat the effects of these tragic fires, I am sharing a couple links to some more grassrootsy organizations that I've been contributing to in our show notes. Chelsea, Reese, and I all adore you culties, those of you who are based in Southern California. We wish you safety and in the meantime, feel silly, but we hope you enjoy this episode of our show. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable

fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. My name is Kyle and I'm calling from Calgary in Canada. The cultiest thing about Sephora are the high exit costs because I'm too scared to stop using their product and being part of their cult in case the crap I've been putting on my face actually works and I'll look like a gargoyle if I stop using their products. Hi, sounds like a cult pod. I am absolutely in the cult of Sephora. I got sucked in during COVID. I was watching a ton of makeup and skincare videos and wanted to purchase a

lot of the products I sell featured. Sephora is culty because I am literally obsessed with my V.I.B. points and status. Like, I can't just be an insider. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern-day cults we all follow. I'm your host, Amanda Montel, and I'm an author. And I'm your co-host Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer.

And I'm also your co-host Reese Oliver, sounds like a cult's coordinator. Every week on this show, we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cult in culture, from tradwives to Stanley cups, to try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really?

And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, watch your back, or get the fuck out? After all, not every culty-looking group these days is equally destructive. Cultish influence falls along a spectrum. The show is to analyze how fanaticism shows up in everyday life, to poke a little bit of fun at human search for meaning, and to critique how power abuse shows up in places you might not think to look. Like tiered loyalty programs and toddlers in Sephora.

Oh, God. Heyhora. Oh my God. Oh my God. By the way, this is our debut episode of 2025. Oh, wait. Actually, this is- Happy New Year, Cold TV. Happy New Year. It's New Year.

Season premiere. I thought Sephora would be a great New Year's topic because odds are several of those listening had like a stocking full of fricking gift cards. Stocking stuffers. Those checkout minis, little drunk elephant, Sunday Riley. Yep. Yes, give it to all your third grade nieces. Yes, pile that salicylic acid on your infant.

Just load them up. Burn the epidermis right off her crotchness. I will say I have a confession though. What? You wanna know what's so funny that I started thinking about? All the cults that we've been talking about, I really feel like it's a little odd

that I'm a member of 104. I really feel a little attacked by the premise of our show. This is a risk. I'm just saying, like every single one, I'm like, damn, I'm in deep. I'm doing it on purpose. Like, there's a method to the madness.

Absolutely. It's like a self-discovery journey. Yeah. We're all here to learn about ourselves. Sounds like a cult is trying to break you down to build you up. That's real. I'm broken.

And with that, let's build. Earning points on the rent you're already paying is now a reality when you pay your rent through built. I know rent is one of my biggest expenses. So if I can earn points in that process of paying rent, it's a no brainer. There's no cost to join built. And as a member, you'll earn valuable points on rent

and on your everyday spending. Built points can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines and even the ones you haven't heard of. There are over 500 airlines and 700,000 hotels and properties around the world you can redeem your built points toward. Points can also be redeemed toward a future rent payment and unique experiences that only built members can access.

So if you're not earning points on your rent, my question is, why not? Start earning points on rent you're already paying by going to joinbuilt.com slash cult. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash cult. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Joinbuilt.com slash cult to start earning points on your rent payments today. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace makes it super easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything. You can sync your product catalog to your social media accounts like Instagram or Facebook

or YouTube. With design intelligence, anyone can create a stunning, highly personalized website that's tailored to your unique needs. And linking your social and multimedia accounts to your website is a total no-brainer with Squarespace. Sounds like a cult.com is a Squarespace website. Making updates when I need to to the website is a breeze. Check out Squarespace for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Okay. What I'm hearing is that you have a relationship to the cult of the Sephora. Reese, just slightly. I'm looking at your face clearly so do you. I'll take it, it's a compliment. It is, it's a compliment, it's a fully compliment. Her face is beat to the gods, like you look amazing.

But could you self roast a bit? Like how far deep into this call are you? I really roasted myself yesterday morning because I was putting on my makeup and before I put on my makeup I went before I put on my makeup, I went to go put on my Wee Little Moisturizer, which is the Dr. Jart, Sica Pear, Tiger Grass, the green one. And I've been using this stuff on and off, saving up my Christmas Sephora cards

to buy the tiny sample portion of this since I was in sixth grade. And I was putting it on and the scent was really nostalgic for me. And then I was like, that's kind of really sad that I'm 21 and a color correcting skincare product is like nostalgic for me. Is that, do I have a problem? How did you discover this totally unnecessary skincare product for any living woman, especially

an 11 year old? What brought it into your life? Chronically online, I think if I become interested in something, I need to know about it to the fullest extent. Sure, sure, sure. So, you know, when you're a middle schooler, of course, that thing is I am the most ugly person who ever exists. How do I fix it?

And that resulted in a lot of skincare research. What about you, Chelsea? Listen, it's the packaging. Like, if I see someone with something, I want it. If the colors are pretty, I'm not as in depth with the research, don't really care. If it's a pretty color, it's like something that looks edible, I'm low key in all the way. Like a little magpie, I love it.

Yeah, I just love Sephora. Also, I'm always so happy every time I get to the counter because I never remember how many points I have. And then when they're like, you have 7,872, I'm like, damn, first of all, when the hell did I spend all this money here? But this is nice. I will take that tiny lipstick thing

that I don't need. That little talisman of my loyalty. You two are the spectrum of Sephora girlhood. Like the science and the spirituality. Yeah, the vibes. The vibes. The vibes and the vibes. The science and the vibes.

That's the show. So culties, welcome officially to our Cult of Sephora episode. We did do a cult of skincare episode several years ago, but Sephora is a very specific beast that we've been meaning to address for some time. Throughout this episode, we're going to address the brand's origin story, its cult marketing strategy, how it started targeting little kids, and how it manages to cultivate such fanaticism and loyalty compared to other beauty retailers.

I personally have a kind of fraught relationship with Sephora. I was a beauty editor. That was my day job for five years, which some OG culties will know. I did not grow up a beauty girl. My makeup vibe as a teenager was very much a product of its time, just black eyeliner that I would remove at night with my fingers. I would like wipe it off with a makeup wipe that was my hands. To horrify the people really quick,

my mother removes her makeup probably every three days. I won't lie. Let me start there. Let me start there. Yes, Jamie, I'm airing you out. With step one, 90% rubbing alcohol. You're joking. Step two, witch hazel. Step three, there is no step three. I am airing you out with step one, 90% rubbing alcohol. You're joking.

Step two, witch hazel. Step three, there is no step three. Oh snap, crackle, and pop. And she looks fantastic. What? And her skin is healthy. Listen, this entire industry is such garbage. But the wild thing is, as soon as I started writing

about beauty products and receiving free beauty products by the metric ton, I immediately got addicted because I really think Sephora in particular is so fucking culty because in the same way that as a Scientologist, you can never go clear, you can truly never have enough beauty products from Sephora, which is like, they're all different. They're all different. They're all different. A little bit. It is the Mecca.

Their buyers are not playing. They are not fucking around. You do feel like you're on Pleasure Island from Pinocchio when you go in there. You do a little blackout. I can't lie. You do. You blackout. You dissociate.

I definitely got addicted very quickly. The more I acquired, the more I needed. And I think it's become especially addictive because of the social media of it all, which you can speak to directly. But also like beauty, I think is the perfect consumerist cult because unlike high-end fashion where like who except for the ultra, ultra wealthy

can just load up on an excess of designer clothes. Beauty is an affordable luxury. And so you could get a nice moisturizer for the cost of like three Shein products. And I think this ties into this concept of the lipstick effect. Have you heard of this? Where, for example, during the Great Depression, when spending on consumer goods was generally obviously way down, spending on lipstick and beauty products actually went up because it was like an easy... And the treat.

Yeah, it was an affordable way to treat yourself during times of crisis. And what does a cult do other than capture the vulnerable during times of struggle, promising here is something that will fix you. And buying a beauty product is so much cultier because buying a beauty product is buying much cultier because buying a beauty product is buying a fucking identity.

It's like so not to be underestimated. Retail therapy. And they run out, your makeup and skincare, you run out of it. So it's not like clothing where like you buy a shirt and then you have that shirt forever. With makeup and skincare, you're always gonna need to buy more at some point.

Nevermind the fact that you're never gonna use all of it and it's all gonna expire. And this is why so many beauty brands pop up. It's an unbelievably crowded space. And I think this is culty in like an MLM kind of way. Beauty product margins and the fact that you have to replace your product so frequently, make this one of the most profitable industries

in the world. But it's such a crowded market and it's more competitive than ever to kind of like break through and capture consumers' attention. Sephora is kind of like a leader in the cult of the beauty industry altogether because getting blessed by the church of Sephora, meaning being able to sell your products in its stores,

means you might become one of these very, very few success stories. These brands are all going for that culty exceptionalist promise of like, I could achieve enlightenment and get my product in Sephora and capture some of that light. But first, let's maybe start by discussing some of the positive aspects of this cult. What are some of your favorite Sephora brand? Ooh, this is interesting. Okay, Tower 28.

Tower 28, I remember when they launched. Listen, they're fire. Those cream blushes? Yeah, Fenty, obviously. And then, I mean, Bum Bum. Oh, the Sultry Chanel. You guessed it. I used to be super into watching,

I don't know if you guys know Trendmood, the Instagram account. They just report on new beauty launches, but I used to watch their page obsessively. I used to be super into like all the new makeup and skincare launches and whatever. And now I feel like there's just so much of it and it all just means so little that like none of it really grabs my attention anymore. Like if anything, I'll go look at like the Pat McGrath stuff because that almost feels more like like museum pieces because it's like, ooh, $90 single eyeshadow

I'll never be able to afford. Dude, speaking of Pat McGrath though, like that reminds me that when I first started researching my book Cultish, I was looking into cult rhetoric that some new age groups and other modern day culty communities were using. And I was like, why does this shit remind me so much of beauty launch press releases? Pat McGrath literally had a line, I think,

or a collection called like the cult lab. Beauty products, definitely like in a cheeky, hyperbolic, metaphorical way, but also like low key kind of a very real way, use cult rhetoric in their marketing. They'll be like this cult product. Exactly. And like they're joking. They're using it in the way where you would say, oh my God, yeah, that brand has a cult following or like Grateful Dead is a cult band.

But like they're not kidding. No, this is a bandwagon. Hop on it. OK. So Sephora's history as a coal is fucking fascinating. Could y'all break it down? Let's get into it. In 1968, Dominique Mardinard, who was born into a family of perfumers,

started a small perfumery in Limoges, France, called Shop8. Shop8's unique business model allowed customers to try the perfumes before purchasing the samples. They get you. In 1970, the UK's Boots PLC chain, I've always wanted to go to Boots. Anywho, they launched a series of 38 branded stores

named Sephora. The name is allegedly a combination of the Greek word sephos, meaning beauty, and the name Zephora, that's fun, the exceptionally beautiful wife of Moses in the book of Exodus. Ah, a portmanteau? You know me in a portmanteau.

Nothing cultier than a biblical portmanteau. Nothing cultier than a biblical portmanteau. Yes, and I've been saved. Yeah. This group of stores partnered with a department store group, Nouvelle galleries, and were ultimately not very profitable. Oops. In 1993, Dominique purchased the 38 Sephora stores

and merged them with his 12 stores and relaunched in 1995. That was a good little purchase. Dominique. Dominique was on his shit. I know, it sounds like it was a woman. Dominique. Yeah, but it was a good little purchase. Dominique! Dominique was on his shit. I know it sounds like it was a woman Dominique. Yeah, but it was a man. Classic! I also think it's super interesting. You can't find much about Dominique's life prior to this. I don't know and Dominique is not old. He was not an old man. You know what I'm saying?

Like this is modern times. Yeah, no, he's like from the 90s. Yeah. So I think it's very interesting that you don't know much about him. I can't find anything about his childhood. I'm just like, so you just appeared. He wasn't a boss. Fascinating. Like so many fellow cult leaders of the 60s and 70s.

Like look at this timeline. So for a launching in 1970, I'm pretty sure that's the year Scientology came out. There are basically the same thing. You sample the perfumes, you join the cult. I'm kidding. I think it was the fifties, whatever. Same, same.

Have you ever heard of telling a joke? Yeah, you better say that now. You better say it now. All right, then what happened? Finally, in 1997, the powerhouses Louis Vuitton and Moe Hennessy purchased the chain which ultimately brought them to their global success. To be inducted into that motherfucking cult.

Listen, listen. That is the ideal cult, LVMH. LVMH, it's so big. Yeah. But jillionaire big. Yeah. But jillionaire big. Yeah. But it's not so, so visible. No.

It's beneficiaries get to like hide in secret. I wish. I wish. We're the opposite. We're like so visible. Yeah. And so not. Not billionaires.

Yeah. I took business statistics at the beginning of the semester and womp womp. Can we put a womp womp there, Jordan? And one of the sample spreadsheets we used a lot was like the top 1000 richest billionaires in the world. Most of them, it was like, what company do they work for? It was like LVMH.

Whoa. Which is like most of the spreadsheet. LVMH is whatever people think that the Illuminati is. Dude, first of all, I wish I knew the price tag on how much Dominique got for Sephora. Sephora. I would love to know, but I bet, I mean, if this is a billion dollar company, like they underpaid.

30, yeah, absolutely. It's 50 stores. Yeah. Lore, we may never know. So obviously we all know that Sephora is a global success, but quantify for us exactly where we are today. Well, Zoe Wood, writing for The Guardian, called Sephora the mothership of modern day beauty industry, reporting that with more than 2,700 stores in 35 countries, Sephora

was a force to be reckoned with in the retail space. According to a statistic report, in 2023 Sephora generated retail sales of nearly 8 billion US dollars in the United States. That's up from 5 billion in 2020. Whoa. Yeah. Just from 2020 to 2023. That's like crazy because I feel like the beauty community, at least online, has kind of fallen off in that time. You think? Yeah. Why do you think that? Wait, that's because I'm not their target audience anymore. It's children. It's children. I think it's just my grade. I'm getting older. Yeah. Yeah. Oh! I'm not mad. And you know a brand is culty when it's not only owned by one of the richest companies

in the world, but also when it had its most profitable year in the same year that it started marketing to middle schoolers. Allegedly. P.S.A for anyone who rents. If you haven't heard of built yet, you're about to thank me. Earning points on the rent you're already paying is now a reality when you pay your rent through built. I know rent is one of my biggest expenses in this world.

So if I can earn points in that process of paying rent that I can then use on another large expense, chef's kiss. It's a no-brainer. You don't even have to check with your landlord to start earning points on your rent that you can use toward flights or hotel stays, even fitness classes, or even on your next rent payment. Let me break it down for you. There's no cost to join Built and as a member you'll earn valuable points on rent and on your everyday spending. BILT points can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines and even the ones you haven't heard of.

There are over 500 airlines and 700,000 hotels and properties around the world you can redeem your BILT points toward. Points can also be redeemed toward a future rent payment and unique experiences that only BILT members can access. So if you're not earning points on your rent, my question is, why not? Start earning points on rent you're already paying by going to joinbilt.com slash cult. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash cult. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

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for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. My name is Angel, and I think the cultiest thing about Sephora is that they've been tied to so many political matters over the years. I'm unsure how true these are, but I have seen headlines where Sephora is rumored to have donated to a certain campaign over the other or publicly show support to a group or a political affiliation over the other. And the fact that a beauty and makeup store such as Sephora is tied to these matters feels a little bit culty to me.

My name is Lara and I'm calling from Sydney, Australia. But I think the cultiest thing about Sephora is how there's this whole trend of like Sephora 10 year olds. Firstly, it's become such a trend that it has its own name, but just the fact that this younger audience is being targeted now. I don't know. There's something just a little bit off about that. You know, it's something that I was thinking about as we were prepping for this episode. I was like Sephora's marketing is chef's kiss. We're going to break it down and what it has in common with a cult.

But I was also like, who the fuck came up with those signature black and white stripes that make up the Sephora brand? Because they are iconic and they are chic, but they are also giving prison. It is telling on itself as a prison of consumerism. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely giving hamburger. Like a thousand percent. For sure. Okay, so let's break down some of what makes Sephora as culty as it is. From the consumer perspective, the cultiest thing about most stores that you're going

to encounter is their loyalty program. And Sephora is definitely no different. We take these for granted now, but they're like definitely incentives for actual cult membership. They're just cults that we agree to, especially if you have a credit card. Someone I know is, I believe, like 28 now and their only credit card is an Ulta one. What? Signing your soul, right?

My girl's got priority. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. Anywho, Sephora launched its own beauty insider program in 2003, which allows customers to earn points as they buy and ultimately turn those points into little teeny tiny gifts with categories. There's insider, VIB, and Rouge.

And they all motivate shoppers to spend more to unlock higher tier rewards. What does this make you think of? Fricking Mary Kay Cadillac. Yes does this make you think of? Frickin' Mary Kay Cadillac. Yeah. Yes. Yes, I think of Monat specifically because their tiers are equally flouncely named. We love a highfalutin tier.

We do. Like, it just fills us with a transcendent. Yes, I'm a crown diamond. Exactly. Meanwhile, like, what does that materially translate to? I made 8,000 women bald this year. Or if you're a Sephora employee, maybe you made their hair better. What does that materially translate to? I made 8,000 women bald this year. Or if you're a Sephora employee, maybe you made their hair better.

Maybe. The exclusivity of these loyalty programs fosters a sense of belonging amongst customers, which is a cult-like theme that obviously we explore very often here on Sounds Like a Cult. Sephora's tiered program was revolutionary at the time. They provided early access to new products and invites to exclusive events, which I don't know how much of that

still happens nowadays anymore. But yeah, we have a lovely little breakdown of the tiers here that Chelsea's included for us. It really does look like the income disclosure sheet of any multi-level marketing company. 1000%, that's the first thing that I thought of when I saw it. Wow, to be the highest tier, which is Rouge, you have to spend $1,000 a year and all of that

for free standard shipping, beauty insider cash, 20% off seasonal savings events. Oh goody. And for specific point multiplier events, you get quadruple points and there's also other like minimal discounts and- Opportunities for saving. Are you beauty insiders? I'm V.I.B. You're V.I.B.?

Yeah. Okay, but cool. What about you? I don't think I'm a member. Yes. No, I don't think I have a Sephora membership. You shop there. Do you get the birthday gift?

I don't go there anymore. She's transcended folks. No, no, I like to be honest, when it comes to makeup, I'm like still working through free products from your beauty editor era. That's what I'm saying. Like there's no reason that every brand needs to be launching something even every quarter, let alone a whole collection every three weeks when you're still using makeup from when you

were a beauty editor. It is truly insane how much excess these brands feel the need to produce to stay relevant. And it's terrifying how that rat race translates to keep you the consumer hooked into the cult. Cause like I would get a new thing, it would be like shiny thing, dopamine floods my system. And then I would have a crash and the next day some new thing would come out and I would be like,

oh, I need that. And then I would see other beauty editors or influencers on Instagram who had that buzzy new product. And the reason why I kept discarding the thing that I was so excited about yesterday in favor of this new thing that cropped up honestly had nothing to do with the product itself. Like I'm not inherently that interested in foundation or spot treatment. It was because like those who were in on the latest and greatest seemed like those the V.I.B.S. Yes, the V.I.B.S. But especially the beauty editor girlies who were like in with Sephora's P.R.

and like who got, you know, to go to all this. P.R. is such a fascinating thing to me, especially now that people show off their P.R. online and it's become like a whole new thing people are jealous of. Oh my God. I mean, like the P.R PR boxes that we were sent, I started to feel really gross about it because it was so much plastic. It was so over the top. And of course it was never satisfying because the culty thing about it was that I wasn't even interested in the products. I didn't even care about them. What I cared about was being accepted by these girls that I worked with. So it really was a relief to be able to defect from that.

To your point, I feel like you should give yourself a pat on the back for not being fucking wasteful because a lot of these companies are extremely wasteful. And I've seen so much content from Sephora specifically when people do like the dumpster dives and they go in and like go behind the Sephora buildings and they just dump their shit in there. And it's not like expired, it's not opened, it's all like still packaged things. And I can't remember the reasoning behind whatever, but it's extremely wasteful.

So, so fucking wasteful. I remember like when I quit my beauty editor job, I did this purge where I donated like 90% of the beauty products that I had acquired. I felt like I was again shedding an identity as this prisoner. I'm not kidding about like the stripes like as this prisoner to not only the cult of consumerism, but the cult of this promise that like, if you have the latest cool girl products, and if you know how to use them, and if you've watched the tutorials,

and if you have an in with the Sephora PR girlies, then you've won life, and you're like a good American, and you've done your gender correctly. And it was so nice to be able to shed that. Of course, then I joined a million other cults in his place and they all come with their own side effects. But I guess this is what this podcast is all about. It's like breaking down what are the pros and cons.

What are the side effects of this cult? Yeah, what are the side effects of this cult? Pick your poison. Is being a Rouge member that important to you? I have seen someone who lives on the cult of Reddit, I see people at the end of the year being like, here's all the shit I bought to maintain my Rouge status. And it's like, if you don't acquire it naturally,

maybe the status isn't for you. But like, what is the Rouge status really, really mean to them because these perks are like kind of done. Like do people in your life care about this? I need to know. Is this a thing people talk about in their real life? Like, is being a Rouge member something that has a bearing on the way you move through the world?

Like, what does it do for you? Is it a flex is what you're asking. I don't think so. It's not important. Oh, that's funny that your clarification of that question was is it a flex? Because my thought was, are you asking, does it foster community?

I guess kind of both. Obviously there are enough people that care about it that I'm seeing it on Reddit, but like, I don't know. I feel like even as someone who consumes makeup space content, like even people online don't even seem to care about it that much generally. I know, I think it's actually like kind of failing a little bit as a coal element

because it's not creating that community magic that really keeps people addicted. Unless it is, prove us wrong. Unless it is, maybe we're wrong, like let us know. But from where I sit, it kind of looks like it's just creating a bottomless void. And at a point that feels to me like it's going to have an expiration date. If it's not bringing people together so much as like causing you to want to like keep up the status for the sake of it just because you feel like you'll lose something about

yourself if you don't, that doesn't feel compelling enough to me. But clearly Sephora must have other things going on that fuel this cult. Actually, yes. Transitions. So Sephora was actually very early to capitalize on digital. Transition! Not segue for us. So Sephora was actually very early to capitalize on digital marketing as a cult recruitment tactic of sorts. According to beauty editor Devin Hopp, writing for a Birdie.com piece titled 17 Weird But

True Facts About Sephora, quote, Sephora was an early adopter of e-commerce, launching its first website in 1998, according to author Mary Caran Hackett. Now digital marketing is embedded in the entire company. Its U.S. headquarters is even located near Silicon Valley. That emphasis on digital commerce may have helped propel the company's sales and transform the way it does business." That proximity to the tech industry,

I feel like that really comes through. Also, I used to work with Devon at Bertie Funfacts. Oh, did you? Yeah, it's like, da! Shout out Devon. So Sephora uses social media as its main marketing tool, which appeals to the audience of Gen Z and Millennials alike. Shout out. And now Gen fucking Alpha dude.

Gen Alpha boo. Boo to you. You guys scare me. I'm sorry. Okay, so I'm sure all of your feeds are filled with tutorials, unboxings, and reviews that you did not know you needed. We can't forget their A-list squad of beauty influencers and celebs who pushed the idea that you need the newest version of whatever they're pushing,

albeit mascara, body butter. Listen, that fancy body butter. I have some in the little purple tub. Yeah. Yeah, it's so good. I have actually convinced so many people to buy it. See, I feel left out and that's the coal at work. Literally. Well, and also because I'm that's the cult at work. Literally.

Well, and also because I'm like, do I love it because of the body butter or do I love it because of the cult of Brianna? I love to love the body butter. No, do I love love? Well, okay, so I will say to the same point, do y'all know Jackie Aina? Yes, she was the first beauty guru I ever watched.

Okay, so Jackie, she has, you know, her normal Instagram feed. Yes. And then she has her luxury Jackie Aina page. Okay. And that page just shows her lavish life. It's just her flexing and how she wakes up her sheets are plush. Her life is beautiful. And I was following her stuff. and I mean, you know, she has products in Sephora, obviously. And I love everything about Jackie, but then I started like getting warped into this weird thing

where I'm like, ooh, if I start buying her products, you do it subconsciously, like, ooh, what if I get her candle? Am I gonna have this proximity to like luxury Jackie Ina lifestyle? And then I realized like, no. I just gave her more money to fund her having that lifestyle. And I just took it away from myself. Which is not bad.

It's not the worst thing in the world, but I'm like, yo, this is again, the cult at play. Yes. No, that is not the worst thing in the world, but you are signing up for a false promise. Absolutely. And the promise wasn't made to you explicitly. It's implied. And this is why Sephora's social media strategy is so devilishly genius because they capitalized on the cult of parasocial relationships very early.

Like they have all these apostles doing their evangelizing for them. And they're like the cults within cults. Like Jackie Aina is within the cult of Sephora. And so is Rihanna. I mean, she is so much more. She is so much more. But it's almost like Sephora is Christianity.

And then there are these like individual denominations and like culty offshoots. Yeah. And then they have like the big sales that they have, like the huge stupid sale every so often. And that's like the Mecca. Yes. That is like the tent revival. And it does like growing up in the United States

where we are conditioned from the time we leave the birth canal and scream Dr. Jart, we're conditioned to equate consumerism and spending with success and even transcendence. It's like if you're surrounded by the right stuff, you're doing life right and it says something about you and your value as a person. And so like, if you're able to get a bargain and capture some of that American dream for less at a once a year exclusive event that your beloved Jackie Aina endorsed Sephora

through just for you? Who could resist that? You know what I mean? It's like, it's not just speaking to our wallet, it's speaking to our soul. Does that make sense? That makes sense. It's good.

It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. Hi, sounds like a cold pod. This is Reese. I'm calling from Columbia, Maryland.

And the cultiest thing about Sephora, I think, is that it's a makeup brand whose CEO is a straight man who doesn't even wear makeup. Like, that's super weird. My name is Natalie, and I think the cultiest thing about Sephora is that they all wear black and those little smocks and then they come follow you around and say, don't open that drawer, I'll open it for you. And then they open it for you and get the exact same thing that you were just about to get on your own. Could you explain how the social media videos you were referencing before could almost serve as addictive cult propaganda or recruitment material for

Sephora. Absolutely. So there are a few theories that could explain our addictions that include ASMR, you know, when you're watching the unboxing, they do the whole tapping thing, you know, we all know what ASMR is, dopamine release, vicarious ownership, Jackie Aina. Toronto. There's another great city that starts with a T. Tampa, Florida. Fly to Tampa on Porter Airlines to see why it's so tea-rific. On your way there, relax with free beer, wine, and snacks, free fast-streaming Wi-Fi, and no middle seats. You've never flown to Florida like this before,

so you'll land in Tampa ready to explore. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. Calling all magical overthinkers in the Vancouver area. Big announcement for you. You are invited to come spiral with me in person for a one night only live show at the Just for Laughs Festival in Vancouver, Canada on Friday, February 21st at 7pm. This live show is called the Big Magical Cult Show, and it is so much fun. Not only does the show involve a deep dive analysis of parasocial relationships and celebrity worship, kind of like a magical overthinkers episode on steroids, but there are also magical elements like drag and burlesque performances, brilliant special guests, custom overthinker merch and

drinks. I mean, who wouldn't want to sip on a cocktail called the French 75 reasons I can't sleep at night? Am I right? There will also be a book signing, a meet and greet, and some truly over-the-top surprises that honestly can't be explained. They just have to be experienced. Tickets are available now at amandamontel.com slash events,

and make sure to snag one before they're sold out, because this is gonna be an intimate little gathering just for us over-thingers. The big magical cult show is coming to the Biltmore Cabaret in Vancouver for one night only on February 21st. And I hope to see you there. Yes. Wait, vicarious ownership. I've never heard that phrase before, but that's so real. Yeah, it really is. Yes. It reminds me of when I was recording an episode of my other fucking podcast, Magical Overthinkers.

I remember talking to the psychologist, Britt Frank, who made this fascinating point that I can't stop thinking about, where like if you fantasize and overshare enough about a goal that you have, it can trick your brain chemistry into thinking you've already achieved that goal. And that can actually prevent you from being productive and fulfilled and accomplishing your dreams. So there's almost this like empty parasocial sense of achievement that you get when you watch these unboxing videos that vicarious ownership. I'm gonna have to like keep thinking about that. I feel like we're coming to define ourselves more and more by like the content we consume and the things that we like than by like the things that we do and who we actually are. And I feel like this is hugely symptomatic of it

because it's not even like, what kind of makeup do I wear? But it's what kind of makeup do I approve of other people wearing? Or do I like to engage with people that wear? It's association. Yes, and it's culty. Because when your entire personality, I mean, how do we get our personalities?

We triangulate amongst our community. We establish likes and dislikes, you know, establishing what is personality is like a fascinating question. But if you're establishing like your point of view and your sense of self, just by like observing what beauty products you approve of, but you don't even own them or use them,

it's like who even is your core self? Sephora defined it. Yep. And it sounds so silly, but like, it is so easy to live that way. When y'all are talking about that, it reminds me of those videos that you see where people, they don't even realize that they're pushing a product

when they do this, but what your foundation says about you. Mm-hmm. Yes. If you wear the Fenty, you are the bad bitch. You are the blah blah. I'm gonna buy that one then. Yeah, I'm obviously buying the bad bitch one. But you know, until you said that it didn't really register, but absolutely.

Yes, actually we used to write stories like that. At Birdie when I was a beauty editor, it would be like, which Sephora nail polish to buy this season according to your astrological sign, according to your Myers-Briggs. What the fuck would that have anything to do with my, what amount of money I can spend, what colors I like? It doesn't, it's just like, again, I think it reflects something about how choosers paradox

and consumerism and digital overwhelm in our society right now has paved the way for culty companies like Sephora to be like, are you confused about your identity? Do you not know who you are? Here's a beauty product that can tell you who you are. And then you don't get the opportunity to actually figure it out for yourself. No, it's like if you just buy this blush for whatever color season your color theory on TikTok tells you you are, then you don't have to think about what color you like, if you just buy this blush for whatever color season, your color theory on TikTok tells you you are, then you don't have to think about what color you like

and what you want to, who you wanna be. I don't think I ever wrote a piece like this, but I could so easily see the next step being like, what movie you should watch this fall according to your favorite beauty brand. And then it's like, oh, now it's determining what information I consume, you know? It infiltrates so many corners of our mind

and we don't even notice. Okay, so let's just keep talking about the psychology of it. Another theory that could explain our addictions to watching these type of videos is the Zygarnik effect. According to a blog in media psychiatrist, Dr. Pamela Rutledge argues that unboxing and tutorial videos satisfy our natural human desire for curiosity, which plays into the Zygarnic effect. This principle suggests that people are more likely to remember incomplete tasks, compelling

them to watch the entire unboxings to satisfy their curiosity. So crazy, but we're not unique. Obviously our personalities are unique, but our human design is not unique. So it is innate in us to be curious about the ending of something. So when you're watching a tutorial and an unboxing video,

you're less likely to scroll because if you see a box that is closed, you want to know the ending. You don't want to be left on a cliffhanger. We just saw my spoiler thing guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, boom. Memor. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

But if I'm watching someone on TikTok do their makeup and I don't care to watch the video, I will skip to the end to see how it comes out. But you still skip to the end. Yeah, I still wanted to see how it came out. Exactly. We're so simple. Mammals.

Mammals, yeah. Mammals, like people think starting a cult requires you to be so diabolical and such a genius mastermind and be so like strategic and technical. It's like, no, just be loud, repeat yourself a lot and make unboxing videos. Liquid in the box.

Make unboxing videos. Liquid in the box. With lipstick. Yes. Okay, so it reminded me of when, you know, when people who have issues with attention deficit disorders, usually to help combat certain things,

people will usually tell you to write out a list, write out a to-do list at the top of your day if you need to complete a task. And the feeling that you get when you cross it out, it makes you feel like you're closing a loop on something, Zygarnik effect. And so it satisfies your curiosity, okay? So to that same thing, when you're watching the video, you watch it to the end.

It satisfied the curiosity for the moment. However, comma, then you're like, wait, I'm still curious. Cause now I want to buy it. Yeah. Now I want to know how it really works on me. And this I think also speaks to the cult of consumerism and the psychology of it. I feel high when I click purchase on something, but then when it actually arrives, I'm like over it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? Which brings me to my next topic of discussion, getting high with our squishy little brains off sparkly TikTok videos and using them as a replacement for having a personality.

Now, what kind of person do you think would be most likely to be vulnerable to that type of culty manipulation? We've been hinting at it in our discussion thus far. We got to address it head on. Sephora's cult has grown and grown and grown and grown and grown because it is inducting followers into the fucking religion younger than ever. Cue toddlers and fucking Sephora. So question for you all. Obviously, you've all seen the unfolding trend of little kids becoming obsessed

with expensive Sephora cult skincare brands like Drunk Elephant and Sunday Riley. What have you seen of this thus far and what do you make of it? Is it just America being America or do you think it's culty specifically? I think it's culty. And when I first thought about this question, I thought about, this is dark, but follow me.

The story of the- Anywhere. Yeah, come with me. The story of the Pied Piper. Listen Come with me. The story of the pod piper. Listen, I know. No, I'm here. You brought him here to sing out the rats of the city. Correct me when I'm wrong. You didn't pay him.

So what does he do? He goes after your fucking kids. Yeah. He goes after your kids. Yes. And he's like, let me appeal to the little kids. And that's what I, I don't know. I just-

It does Sephora. It is Sephora is the cave. That's how I feel. And Jackie Aina is the piper. She's the piper. Yeah. She's the piper. I don't know.

It's just kind of weird to see because I understand why the children are doing it. Because when I was like 11 and 12 and 13, their age, I was watching Jackie Aina on YouTube and the barrier to participate in something like that is a lot higher. But now it's so easy to make a TikTok on your mom's phone that you've stolen.

It's so easy to participate in it and mimic it, but to do so in a space that isn't private. It's not like putting on your mom's makeup anymore where you can like explore living in that world safely. It's like on the internet and influencing other little kids. Oh, I never really thought about how like kids in their induction to the cult of Sephora on TikTok

are at once a cult follower and their own cult leader because they're making the content. They don't wanna be the follower. They wanna be the influencer. Yes, yes, I hadn't even thought of that. So let's talk a little bit more about this. A 2024 article by Parija Kavalans in CNN Business titled The Sephora Kid discusses, quote, a trend that shows tweens are psyched about skincare,

but their overzealous approach is raising concerns. So one of the most concerning ingredients that these little kids are becoming obsessed with and using is retinol, which like a lot of skincare ingredients are useless. They like truly don't do anything. Actually, I remember once I wrote a piece for Birdie about like of all of the bullshit, trendy, buzzy,

hypey skincare ingredients that are marketed to us, which of them actually have a chemical use case? And there were like six. And retinol was one of them, which is cool if you're 35 and you're like starting a nighttime routine where you wanna like not be wrinkly, which is its own culty problem. But it's definitely an issue when little kids

are becoming obsessed with retinol. Something that this piece talked about is that one of the reasons kids are becoming obsessed with retinol. Something that this piece talked about is that one of the reasons kids are becoming obsessed with retinol is because it comes from a strong prescription ingredient that has been used to treat acne. In this piece, a cosmetic dermatology specialist based in Missouri named Dr. Stacy Hall warned that, quote, "'Teens definitely don't need to use retinol.

"'Retinol came from retinoic acid, "'which is actually for acne, but probably 20 years ago, it took off as an anti-aging serum. She said, if tweens are having acne, then they should see their doctors or dermatologists and get it prescribed rather than go for an anti-aging serum, which does have some retinol.

But the original intent is not to treat acne, and it's also in the wrong formulation to treat acne. Dr. Hull worries that preteens are falling for the hype without properly understanding the chemical used in these popular skincare products. And I think probably one of the reasons why they're embracing these products in particular is just because of like how much more rigid beauty standards have become in the age of filters and like perfectionistic social media presentations. Like I remember being in middle school and like everyone had zits and you just dealt with it,

you know? Like some people got prescriptions for medication if it was a real issue and we would like cover it up with fucking Maybelline Dream Mat Moose. Oh, memory lane. But like there were no fucking Instagram filters and there was no drunk elephant. No, you have retinol under your star face pimple patch now as you roll up to your little sixth grade bio. So this is how some parents are reacting to this new cult phase.

One parent who has her own bias that was quoted in this piece is named Jennifer O'Brien. She's the mother of a set of 12 year old twin girls. She's also an ex Sephora store manager. And she said that she feels like Sephora is an aspiration brand similar to the Stanley Tumblr. Craze, another cult, listen to that fucking episode. She said that Sephora products are a sort of status symbol

that allows consumers, including these little kids, to see products on social media, use them, and tell their friends that they have them. Jennifer even went so far as to throw her daughters a Sephora themed birthday party. So she's leaning in where they got exclusive access to the store with a small group of their friends and a skincare 101 class. Oh my God, these cool girls would intimidate the fuck out of me. I'm intimidated right now. Listen, so on the flip side, she also did acknowledge quote, my main concern is that when my girls go through these hormonal changes,

they can't be layering all these products on their face. At a certain point, they will see that their skin can break out from it. But again, like that is just concern for like their physical skin. I'm concerned for what this craze is doing for their core. So I just also want to say for my 10th birthday, what this craze is doing for their course. I just also want to say for my 10th birthday, I went to the doll mansion. It's like a museum of dolls and they gift you this very, it's like a reborn doll.

And it looks exactly like, it looks like a human. It's very expensive and you can invite all your friends and you dress up in all this European regalia And you have a high tea with petaphors. That sounds so fun I just feel like This Is very interesting for me Well, your party had vision your party had a point of view. This is not right at a point. Well, your party had vision. Your party had a point of view.

This is not a point. Right, it had a point. Yeah. I just, the mom said it in her argument that it is about consumerism and it's a status symbol. And for me, like, what does that do for their psyche? Yeah, like, drunk elephant is not a personality trait. Drunk elephant is not a value system. Drunk elephant is not a value system.

Drunk elephant is not a coming of age artifact. Like, I'm sad. I'm sad about it. What are these things gonna mean to you in like 10 years? What was your 10th birthday? What was my, I think my mom made me crab. I think she cooked me crab. Crab?

Because she said I could have whatever I wanted. And I think I wanted her to cook me crab, so I think she did. Yeah, see that is the fucking weird, that is the kind of weird, independent identity shit that I am talking about. I'll post a picture on our Instagram. I could see it.

Reese's 10th birthday party was, Jamie made her a crab. It was literally just me and my mom eating some crab. Like, you wish. Imagine asking your kid, what do you want for dinner for your birthday? Shellfish.

Crab. Crab. She might've offered, honestly, I have no clue. I was not a party child. This is why you, I was not a party child. This is why you are the way you are and this is why we love you. If you had been baptized by Sephora as a 10 year old,

you would not be here right now. Like that would be so, what a sad story that would be if I were like, yeah, my mom got me the La Mer moisturizer for my 10th birthday. Like, aw. You know, now I'll come to think of it, I had gotten him a culty 10th birthday party. What'd you do?

Oh, you did too. So it was a house party, but it was a hippie party. So I had everybody dressed up like a hippie, and well, like the 90s version of a hippie. Remember? Remember when like the 60s were back in the 90s and it was like those glow in the dark stickers that were like a peace sign.

Yeah, and like a foot, remember? Like a glow in the dark foot. Why? It was like a foot was cool. So it was like a 90s interpretation of the 60s and I made everybody play like kind of a game of 60s trivia. It was who wants to be a millionaire 60s theme.

I love it. I would have I would have been so there. It was that is a 90s ass birthday. God. All right. So let's talk a little bit more about the insidiousness of. And someone complained recently on our Instagram that we use the word insidious too much. It's a show about cults. It's a show about cults. It's a show about cults.

What are you gonna do? Let's go to powerthesaurus.com and look up some. A different word for insidious. Crafty, cunning, wily, treacherous. We're using wily now. Yeah, okay. Wily's good. All right, let's talk a little bit more

about why Sephora for toddlers is so damn wild. Sephora for toddlers is so damn treacherous. So Amanda is doing trivia at her birthday. I'm eating crab at my birthday. Chelsea's having tea with some dolls. We are all having a great time. Why are these kids interested in such soulless little birthday parties? And it's because the company wants them to be.

Pretty anticlimactic. As anyone who has seen Mad Men knows, since the 60s, the advertising industry figured out the strategy that if you can capture a young customer, they might remain brand loyal for life. And this consumerist marketing strategy is responsible for so much of why youth is valued in the US in general. But in an ever-crowded market, young people's attention is harder to capture than ever, and brands have to use increasingly culty strategies to succeed.

According to an article in Psychology Today entitled, Four Ways Ads Target Kids and What to Do About It, brands often use strategies that appeal directly to children to create loyalty and drive sales. So for instance, companies will often use bright colors, cartoon characters, relatable mascots and marketing campaigns to capture kids' attention. I see this a lot with newer skincare and beauty brands, like all the super fun and bubbly fonts and the neon colors and again the stickers. Kids love stickers, come on!

It's so obvious when you look at the packaging that they're aiming for kids. Cause like, I think one of the reasons why I don't shop at Sephora anymore is because like, it feels icky. It feels almost like Dylan's candy bar in there. You know what I'm saying? I've aged out of this. Yeah, it feels like I've aged out of it. Right, yeah. Send me to Nordstrom's.

No. I'm kidding. Is that really the natural progression? I guess so. No, where do I buy my beauty products? Frankly, fucking Walgreens, dude. Okay. I'm not trying to, oh, you know what, no.

I mean, it's like what we've been talking about. The truth of the matter is that you don't need to buy beauty products that fucking often. No. So I'll buy them at random, whatever. There's a Credo Beauty down the street. That's natural beauty, whatever, like there's a credo beauty down the street. That's like natural beauty, whatever, like organic products. I'll buy them like, I don't know what, like the farmer's market, like

it's just not that deep for me. Yeah. I also think that just for me personally, I'm transitioning out of this over consumption thing as well. I have promised myself that I'm not going to repurchase anything until I'm done with something. Until you've hit pan. Yeah.

I have so many salt and stone deodorants. I have salt and stone in my car. I have salt and stone in our guest bathroom, our regular bathroom. Okay. I just like to leave a little, you know, everywhere. You know what I'm saying? Do I need that? No.

You should wait until you're done. It's just too much. So I thought it'd be fun for us to explore the packaging of viral products to dissect why a tween would likely buy. For our listeners who aren't familiar with these products, we'll describe what they're said to do for your skin and then what the product packaging looks like. Oh, this is so interactive. First things first, we already know Drunk Elephant,

known for their luxurious skincare items, particularly the D-Bronzy Anti-Pollution Sunshine Drops, which provide a bronzed glow and are often featured in skincare smoothie videos. First of all, what baby girl or baby boy, or baby, or baby anyone, or maybe they, needs to be bronzed up for their homeroom class?

For real, you're walking the mile, girl. Calm down. Why? You're walking the mile. You're doing the pacer. You know what? I knew that the drunk elephant logo reminded me of something very specific from childhood.

It looks like Babar. Oh my god. from childhood. It looks like Bhabar. Oh my God. It does. It looks like freaking Bhabar. It does look like Bhabar. It's literally- It's from children. Bhabar is meant for like a four year old. From children. Literally Bhabar is like children's books,

like not even for someone who can read, like your mom reads you Bhabar. I will say Drunk Elephant, first of all, the packaging is all plastic, which is very kid friendly. And also another way of like brands as time goes by are making things that are more cheaply made. They're trying to frame them as trendy so they can get away with spending less money

on making good products. It's like why skinny jeans? It's like less fabric. I don't know. It's kind of conspiracy theory-y, but I'm fully in on it. No, no, that's not, that just sounds like good business. Yeah, it's also a squeezy bottle. Like pretty easy intuitive for kids to use like easy squeeze ketchup

It doesn't feel like a Lancome or like a nice Mac product for a kid. This feels very easily accessible for a child Oh my god, the squeezy bottle It's literally for kids who don't have fully developed motor skills, right? Like it feels like kid friendly makeup and a lot of their stuff is like that like their Moisturizers have the little like pressy top. Okay, let's go to slide two. Glow Recipe. Glow Recipe, their playful packaging and fruity themes have captured the attention of younger users.

Popular items. I have fruity themes. Younger users love a fruity theme. Popular items include the watermelon glow niacinamide dew drops, and the avocado melt retinol eye cream. Okay, the watermelon one looks like an upside down light bulb. Yes.

Wow. It's pink. It's- They smell, it smells like watermelon. Yeah, I remember when this product came out. I was like in my mid twenties and I was not interested because it looked like it was for a kid. It looks like Play Food. It feels like Claire's makeup. Like Claire's skincare right?

Yes. Yes. No shade if you use these products because I have used some of them and like they're nice but like truly at a certain point when it gets to skincare, a moisturizer is a moisturizer. Let's look up how much this watermelon thing costs. Too many money. $35. Like use some Sarah V, kiddo. Yeah, it's like the high end stuff. And of course the drugstore brands end up following suit. Yeah. Because that's how things work in the advertising world. Totally. Okay, let's do one more little packaging description.

The infamous Sol de Janeiro, the Brazilian bum-bum cream with its vibrant packaging and tropical scent has become a cult favorite among this specific demographic. Listen, I understand why. No, that smell. That smell. Sends me to the pearly gates. Okay, speaking of Walgreens, do you remember getting a perfume set when you were younger? There used to be this thing, this brand at Walgreens and I can't remember the brand,

but it was like cotton candy. Is it the pink sugar? It was. They still sell her at Marshall's. Tell me that. But it just this is what bum bum reminds me of that. Like, it's just a super gourmandi. Like, it smells so freaking good. You know, what's funny is that this terminology bum bum. I remember when I first heard the name of this product

and I thought it was like diaper cream. Like bum bum, it's baby babbling. It's like what you teach your two year old to call their hiney. It's like hoo hoo pee pee bum bum. Yeah, yeah. Okay, before we get into our verdict, I just wanted to lightly touch on the cult of Sephora

from the employee side. Because while we've been talking for a long time and we have to get to our verdict, I didn't want to totally skip over it because I was doing a little bit of digging just to represent how it feels to earn your living in this increasingly cult-like environment. So first of all, I remember writing about this a little bit when I worked at Birdie, very much like at Disneyland, there is so much highfalutin terminology

in the Sephora stores in terms of how they refer to their employees. So the sales floor is called the stage. Everywhere else is backstage. Sales associates are called past members and managers are directors. The uniforms are called costumes. So this is that very like in-group, out-group,

exclusive, grandiose kind of cultish terminology to make it seem like this is not just a makeup store or a skincare store. You're performing the Sephora brand when you clock in. You're performing the Sephora brand 100%, all the world's a stage, but also like we're doing something elite here. Like we are doing something unlike any other store

you could ever go in. And when you put on that costume, that all black costume, you are like subsumed by this culture. On that note, in that piece that my old coworker, Devin, wrote about Sephora, the Sephora beauty director at the time, Olinda Solaris was interviewed and she said, "'At Sephora, our clients are at the center "'of everything we do.

"'We are the ultimate beauty destination "'and our goal is to ensure that everyone feels like they belong." So, like, clearly it's drilled into the, what are they called, the directors as they're working on stage, the cast members. It's drilled into them that, like, they're creating a religious experience of sorts

when people enter the Church of Sephora. The employees are very, they give you a very guided experience if you've been in a Sephora. But like, you can kind of tailor it like they'll, if you want to be left alone, they'll leave you alone. But like, they definitely feel a lot more hands on than other retail employees. I actually think that's my favorite part. And we talk about that about in cults, like the sense of belonging because they make you feel like you belong. And sometimes when I go in other stores,

like high-end retail stores, I don't have that same experience. And so when I go in Sephora and they greet me with a smile and they come up to me, they ask you, do you need help? What can I help you with? Oh my God. Yeah, they are really helpful. They're really welcoming, but I just had a weird memory.

I remember when I was in high school and I used to go to Sephora, because I was a teenager and teenagers are badly behaved, I remember the Sephora employees, cast members, would look at me with suspicion. What are you doing here? You're not gonna buy anything. You're just gonna use up all the free samples and leave,

which I lowkey I would. But now that Sephora's like target customer is a 13 year old, you can't look at them with that suspicion anymore. And being looked at with suspicion is an important part of growing up. Yeah. Like embarrassment is a vital part of your development. You need to learn. Literally. So whenever we talk about the Sephora kids, I'm imagining these sweet little cherub angels walking ever so floating through the aisles. You met a 12 year old? I didn't know that it was such an issue.

I didn't know that they were, what do you call those species, like the bull weevils that were. I didn't know that they were going ham like that in Sephora until I went to TikTok and saw a few users expressing their grievances. Of how the 12 year olds actually behave in Sephora. Yes, not the online content that they push out, but how they go in and their rudeness. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. No, middle schoolers are so mean. But yeah, I was also,

I was trying to find some evidence of what it feels like to work at Sephora. And I was looking up Glassdoor reviews and many of the reported pros of working for Sephora had to do with exactly what we're talking about. It really seems like those who work there, it's not just a job, they love interfacing with clients, they love being around products, they love teaching and sharing and helping people. But some of the common alleged cons

that I found on Glassdoor included poor management and there were complaints about the values that the company always changing. So like not feeling like there was a solid ethical core coming from HQ. I'm shocked. And that manifested in like a tiny little scandal in 2023. I thought this was funny.

Sephora faced a bunch of backlash from its workers by providing a quote unquote stale reward for all of their hard work. So on social media Sephora ended up getting put on blast by employees at the end of 2023 by rewarding them for helping them make the company reach $10 billion in sales in 2023 by gifting each of these Sephora stores a box of like shitty stale cookies. The cookies were allegedly wrapped individually with stickers that said, we did it. We sold $10 billion worth of cookie.

Like people say that as a joke. Literally like of- Here's a cookie. A literal cookie. People say that as a joke. Literally, here's your billionaire cookie. They were patting themselves on the back for becoming billionaires on the backs of these employees by giving them their stale cookie. Cookie, cookies. And yeah, of course, people took to the internet

to rage about the hypocrisy and how insulting it was to have the company be like, "'We sold a billion dollars thanks to people like you. "'What is your reward?' "'Not a bonus, not a heartfelt all hands meeting "'or anything like that.' Literally a shitty ass, stale ass cookie. First of all, look how thin that damn cookie is.

It is like a communion wafer. Oh my God. It is the body of Sephora. It is the body of the Christ that is a billion dollars worth of sales. 10 billion, excuse me. Obviously we're not like going in depth here into like the corporate culture or anything like that, but I think it just reflects the general conversation we've been having of like God at Sephora is sales, is profit at all cost.

The cost being like children's self-esteem, their complexion. And that can be wily. That can be treacherous. Very treacherous. Hi, sounds like a cult pod. This is Lauren calling from Philadelphia. I never thought I would be this person, but I am like all in on being a Sephora cultie. The thing is with Sephora, once you start shopping, you earn points and then you earn status as a shopper and the higher your status, you get not only bigger discounts, but earlier

access to sales and they structure it so certain items will sell out really quickly. And so it feels important once you're in that VIP status level to maintain it because you think you're really getting something special. You get extra free gifts, you earn a ton of points, and then those points can get you also like quote-unquote exclusive free gifts that are available for limited time. And even though I'm super sad that they donated to the Trump campaign and Republicans during the election, I truly do not think I can give it up. All right, I think we're ready to do our verdict.

Chelsea and Reese, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of Sephora falls into? Listen, I don't need anybody clocking my T about my V.I.B. status, okay? What I choose to spend my hard earned cash on is nobody's business.

Live your life, okay? Period, point blank. Whoa. Wow. Reese, what do you think? I think the average person is probably engaging with Sephora in a live your life manner because I do think the average person is probably restocking their beauty products like two or three times a year.

Yeah. I think if you're like under 16, get the fuck out. Oh, that's super fascinating. Oh yeah. I forgot about the kids. I don't think we've ever had a cult like that before. An age restricted cult. Yeah, an age restricted cult.

We're like 18 and up, live your life. 17-year-olds are in a limbo period, but 16 and under, get the fuck out. That's very interesting. Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. And it just goes to show that like, I mean, we didn't even discuss at length like the gender aspect of this, but like it sucks.

Like we're all in a vulnerable position mentally right now when it comes to women in America feeling really undervalued and disrespected. And I think the fact that Sephora is getting these young girls in particular to join this cult, not giving a fuck what it's doing for their self-esteem. That just sucks. That sucks. And it makes me so sad. Yeah, get the fuck out for those little girlies. Protect them. Go to Claire's, go to Icing.

Yeah, go to Icing. Skibbity. All right. Wait, you didn't give your verdict for the up age group. Oh, I actually agree with you. I think it's to live your life. Because I'm thinking back to when we talked about how like the tiers and the hierarchy and loyalty program is actually not providing that key cult

ingredient of community really not really no not super so in a way it's that's the best part about a cult and it's also the thing for better and and for worse that keeps you in and that's not, the community aspect is not that compelling here. It sounds like it used to be more when they would have like the exclusive events and things like that for members of upper tiers, but I feel like especially in the digital age, it's just not too transparent. Yeah, totally.

Live your life. All right, we got there. Well, thank you, Kulti, so much for tuning into the 2025 season of Sounds Like a Kult. We have so many good topics coming your way. Holy schist-a-noney-noney. And I don't know what that was. But yeah, tune in. That's our show. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week with a new Kult. But in the meantime, stay Kulti.

But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of The Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell, Reese Oliver, and Chelsea Charles. This episode was produced by Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books,

The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio, 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.